Giant Baba (Part 4): The Business of Giants

WEBVTT
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Write that down for me, Saito. Write that down for me, Saito.
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Hi everyone, welcome back to Write That Down I'm your host Justin Nipper,
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I'm editor at FightGameMedia.com Staff writer at F4WOnline and WrestlingObserver.com
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I am back with my co-host, Japanese wrestling's leading author,
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leading historian, leading sociologist,
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Leading broadcast journalist, Mr.
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Fume Saito Okay, today is the final episode of our Legacy Showcase on Giant Baba
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the fourth part in our series today fumi
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and i focused on giant baba as a full-on all japan
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promoter especially in the late 80s into
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the early 90s into the entire decade of the 90s towards the end towards right
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before he passed away um we also spent time talking about the promotional strategies
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he employed we talked about how he and antonio nokia to an extent how they used sports media,
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Tokyo Sports and other wrestling magazines they used those sports press outlets to.
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Decide how they're going to book a lot, a lot,
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a lot of pro wrestling that we saw during that time wasn't
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based on stories and angles that
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were presented on television a lot were carried out
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through the press through the printed press that's why
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Fumi always likes to say how the Japanese
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wrestling fan base was very reading oriented
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we talked a lot about that at the beginning we
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also talked about his booking style Baba's creative decisions
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decisions to move wrestlers like Genichiro Tenryu up the ladder Misawa Kobashi
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and we talked about the importance of the timing and Baba's ability to recognize
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when the right time to pull the trigger is we talked about the creation of the triple crown.
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Uh and how that needed to be important after
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the break with nwa um there's
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a lot to digest in this final episode so please take your time enjoy
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the ride i can't think of any other english language resource out there that's
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covered this era of all japan in such official detail official detail that's
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what i'm saying there's nothing that's out there that's quite like it so once
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again let's thank Fumi-san for letting us sit under his learning tree for another few hours,
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alright if you haven't subscribed to the Fight Game Media Network free feed
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it helps Fight Game Media Network out a ton too.
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Just one second. 皆さんこんにちは。日本のウィスナーの皆さんいつの英語で聞いてくださってありがとうございます。 日本語でなくて申し訳ありません。.
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じゃあもしもよろしかったらSpotify、Apple、Stitcher、Downcastなどのご利用のプラットフォームで Fight Game Media
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Networkごとうるくるいただけると助かります.
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Arigato gozaimasu hontoni arigato gozaimasu,
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okay also I have a book out right now New Japan Strong Match Guide Stronger Than All,
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it documents every episode from the beginning of the show in 2020 until the
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end this past December 2021 it's available on Kindle now if you have Kindle
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Unlimited the subscription service you can read it on that if you have that as well,
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that's that next week kicks off our journey into
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the world of joshi pro wrestling women's
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pro wrestling in japan from the beginning and onwards details coming
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next week be on the lookout make sure you're subscribed so you get the next
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episode in your feed as soon as it goes up otherwise enough of me let's start
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the episode our final episode on one of the most important figures in japanese
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sports history and showa era history in japan the once,
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King of the Royal Road,
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giant baba giant baba
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and how he handled the business and he there
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was some change in philosophy that he giant baba started opening up all japan
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for like newcomers from outside outside meaning like from different you know
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companies you know during 90s like a uwfi uwf internationals top American,
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Gary O'Brien, if you remember.
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He was, you know, just as soon as UWFI closed down the shop that Gary O'Brien
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wanted to, of course, but Gary was signed by All Japan Pro Wrestling.
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And also right after, right around the same time, Baba wanted to hire,
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you know, to sign Yoshihiro Takayama, you know, in traditional pro wrestling style.
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And Takayama wanted to learn that. You know, and all people like Hayabusa from
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FMW, Jinsei Shinzaki from Michinoku Pro Wrestling, they were put together as
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tag team in New Japan, I mean, All Japan ring.
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And Hayabusa and Shinzaki came in as tag team and they participated in a real
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tag team, real world tag team tournament and also won Asian tag team titles
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within All Japan, you know, frame.
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And a lot of the, yeah, so he outside talent started coming in and,
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uh, yeah, he allowed the door, you know, to open the door for something new
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and you have that, uh, the first, yeah,
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let's re rewind the tape a little bit because what's interesting how they,
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how both Inoki and Jan Baba as a promoter and producer and top star time, they used the media.
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Yeah, the baseball magazines, you know, Pro Wrestling Magazine,
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Weekly Pro Wrestling Magazine, and also Nippon Sports Publications,
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Gang, and Weekly Gang Magazines.
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And more importantly, for those in wrestling business,
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the Tokyo sports play a big role because they come out every afternoon,
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every day, and you can pick up Tokyo sports at any train stations and subway
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station around the country, right?
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Were you when you were in Japan were they still reading Tokyo sports they were
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selling it you always see it at like a 7-Eleven or Family Mart,
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not on train stations not as much.
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Today's culture I'm talking about 2022,
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when you get on the trains or subways nobody's reading that sports paper or the evening,
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edition of paper or even regular magazine for that matter that nobody's reading
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physical paper material, right? Only older men.
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Oh, not even that. Not even today, yeah.
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Today, the older people are looking at their iPhone or tablet or what's popular here, Android.
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Smartphone in general, they are looking through phone instead of holding a newspaper or evening paper.
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And the argument can be made that is Tokyo sports really newspaper or that they
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look like newspaper but it's basically tabloid magazine.
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You know what I'm saying? Like the New York Post or something. Exactly.
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You would often see the wrestling more these days if you do see it.
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It's usually towards the back pages.
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Right. In the 60s, 70s, 80s all the way to 90s that Tokyo sports was like a
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pro wrestling newspaper, you know, that comes out every day, every evening and.
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I think the wrestling company had this mentality that they're like the daily
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advertising and telling storylines in a newspaper form.
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And back to this Tokyo Sports, the argument should be made that is it newspaper
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or is it tabloid looking like newspaper, you know, those papers.
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And argument is that yes
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they are technically part of
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newspaper association so they should be classified or
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categorized as newspaper then again tokyo sports
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carry adult content and like
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a gamble you know like horse racing pages in the middle and a lot of iffy advertising
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in in in within that you know paper right some sexy content yeah yeah adult
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content in it and also like Loch Ness Monster and UFOs and whatnot, you know?
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National Enquirer type of thing. Dispiracy. Oh, yeah, a lot of it.
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Or the, what do you call it? The unknown creatures. Like old legends or something.
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Yeah, yeah. Or like your Bigfoot or Loch Ness or something, yeah.
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And Supernatural, you bending your spoon or something. and stuff like that.
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Sure, telepathy and such.
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Yeah, yeah. But that kind of content would appear on Tokyo sports.
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So some people never consider that as newspaper, newspaper.
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But nonetheless, Tokyo sports is very popular, okay?
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And that comes out every afternoon, every day, you know?
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Almost, well, Sunday they don't come out, but six days a week they come out
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every evening. It has a lot, a lot, a lot of wrestling in it, you know, on it.
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And what's on Tokyo sports is pretty important for wrestling community.
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Okay. That's what I'm trying to get to.
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Yeah, it was kind of, instead of TV, like we had over here in the States,
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people would be reading things like Tokyo Sports and other.
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Yeah, the Japanese people are basically more reading oriented.
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And also, Tokyo's news on, wrestling news on Tokyo Sports come sometimes before TV, you know?
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Right, right. Because Tokyo Sports was daily.
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Yeah, and then the title, the Giant Baba Harley Race title match won't be aired
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until this coming Saturday or something, right? Sure. Yeah, so the results on it.
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There was a couple of physical evidence that how Baba used Tokyo Sports back
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in 1978, June 1st, to be exact.
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There was Antonio Inoki against Bob Backlund, first meeting.
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Bob Backlund's WWF title against Inoki's NWF title, double title match.
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These two's first ever meeting at the Nippon Budokan. It sounds like a big match, right?
00:11:04.758 --> 00:11:07.898
Mm-hmm. We talked a little bit about it a month or two ago. Yeah.
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Yeah. The very same day, very same day, Giant Baba, the All Japan Pro Wrestling,
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who was having a house show, but the title match, way up in Akita.
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You know, like up North Akita. Very far from Tokyo.
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Yeah, but the very same day, though, champion Giant Baba against almost underdog
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challenger, Kira Tor Kamata.
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Baba decided to drop the belt that day That night I see so Yeah,
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Baba was holding PWF title for over Five year period or something And then all of a sudden,
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Not so big but very surprising Challenger, Kira Tohokamata Beats Giant Baba to become,
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PWF Heavyweight Champion Way up in Akita What will Tokyo Sports have to do?
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You almost have to open a few pages for that news.
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Stealing the spot. Sort of. Yeah, sort of.
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Otherwise, half the Tokyo sports coverage was going to get photo spread of Nippon
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Budokan, Antonio Inoki against Bob Backlund, double title match, just that.
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You know, just filled with that news, right?
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But by Baba dropping the PWF title that night, the same night,
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way up in Akita, but you still discovered that you'll have half the space.
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Interesting, huh? It really dictated who would be paying attention to what over the weekend.
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Yeah, because it was like in 1981, the very big, oh no, I believe it was 82 then.
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April, not this Ryogoku Sumo Palace, but Kuramae, the one before that, okay?
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April 16, the same day, Enoki was holding this big show at the Kuramae Sumo Palace.
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The NWA heavyweight title match champion Enoki against Stan Hansen.
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And that was the very last title
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match of NWF Inoki defends the title and wins it and keeps the title then relinquished
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the title in order to start the big project called International Wrestling Grand Prix now today's IWGP.
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Relinquished every existing heavyweight title in order to create undisputed
00:13:54.626 --> 00:13:59.426
the best in the world, the biggest thing in the wrestling world,
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International Wrestling Grand Prix project that starts.
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Stan Hansen relinquished his cowboy hat, you know, and Inoki defends the title,
00:14:11.706 --> 00:14:18.266
but he relinquished the NWF title so that IWGP project will be created.
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And it's the same night, original Satoru Sayama Tiger Mask debuts beating Dynamite Kid.
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It's a big show, right? Very big. Yeah.
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Very, very same night in Hukuoka, Baba beats Brody to win the Champion Carnival Final.
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Tokyo Sports has to share just the same amount of pages.
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The very next day. Or, yeah, that the Tiger Mask news and Inoki winning,
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defending NWF title against the Hanson but relinquish title and IWGP project
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stars, that news would be much, much bigger, huh?
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So would this always be coming from All Japan's side or Baba's side?
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Would they be reacting to New Japan's and Inoki's strategies,
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or would it be vice versa?
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It goes both ways. It goes both ways because previous years or that year alone,
00:15:19.339 --> 00:15:24.699
that 81, Inoki's New Japan steals Abdurlada Butcher from all Japan.
00:15:25.619 --> 00:15:33.459
Then the following month, okay, Jan Baba steals Taigachi Tsing from New Japan. It was a rivalry.
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But I think New Japan hit him first.
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Usually. you know what I'm saying, who starts the fight right?
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Right so Baba
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of course you're not supposed to notice these things at the time you know Enoki's
00:15:52.239 --> 00:15:58.259
big show at the Sumo Palace Enoki in stance yeah of course but the very same
00:15:58.259 --> 00:16:04.559
night way down in Fukuoka that year's Champion Carnival Final being held,
00:16:05.459 --> 00:16:13.079
Tokyo and Fukuoka yeah it's not really competing in live audience in the crowd,
00:16:13.099 --> 00:16:15.679
but they're competing in the space of a magazine.
00:16:16.699 --> 00:16:22.719
We didn't notice that at the time. Both companies, both news are on Tokyo Sports, right?
00:16:23.199 --> 00:16:30.399
And Baba beating Brody while Inoki's beating Stan Henson. That's what's interesting.
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It was almost a race to to get to a bigger story who's going to have the bigger story,
00:17:38.961 --> 00:17:41.821
and the space in tokyo sports the next day huh
00:17:41.821 --> 00:17:44.921
right yeah and depending how big the story is that's
00:17:44.921 --> 00:17:47.821
how many pages you get that's how much pr so it was not
00:17:47.821 --> 00:17:50.621
just about sometimes the reason i'm talking
00:17:50.621 --> 00:17:55.001
about tokyo sports was that it was not always just all japan against new japan
00:17:55.001 --> 00:18:00.361
baba against shinoki in coverage but baba seemingly all baba's people did this
00:18:00.361 --> 00:18:08.441
on purpose in November of 1989 when Maeda's version of UWF at the Tokyo Dome
00:18:08.441 --> 00:18:10.181
show the first time and the only time.
00:18:11.041 --> 00:18:14.121
Ucosmos yeah the very big
00:18:14.121 --> 00:18:21.941
kickoff show the famous Tokyo Dome every single match was like you know wrestler
00:18:21.941 --> 00:18:29.201
against amateur wrestler or the Russian wrestler or the kickboxer or like what
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you call today MMA-like, you know what I'm saying?
00:18:32.741 --> 00:18:36.501
Shoot fight. Yeah, and Maeda's, you know,
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and Takada, Fujiwara, Yamazaki, everybody was in it that year,
00:18:43.061 --> 00:18:48.501
and everybody was still together before the breakup to UWF-I and Pancras and
00:18:48.501 --> 00:18:50.361
Fujiwara Gumi and Rings and all these things.
00:18:50.721 --> 00:18:56.461
This UWF was the second version of UWF was the core, the most popular one,
00:18:56.561 --> 00:19:05.461
and they held Tokyo Dome show in November 29th of 1989, the very same night, way up in Sapporo, okay?
00:19:05.881 --> 00:19:09.041
Way up in Sapporo, all Japan was having this, one of the biggest show,
00:19:09.341 --> 00:19:14.261
not the biggest, but one of the biggest show during the real tag team tournament,
00:19:14.381 --> 00:19:20.641
tag team championship tournament thing, and Tenryu pinned Jan Baba for the first time.
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Yeah, there are only two Japanese wrestlers who pinned Giant Baba 1-3 in the middle of the ring.
00:19:30.601 --> 00:19:37.141
Not single match, usually tag team match, but still, Giant Baba wouldn't be pinned.
00:19:37.601 --> 00:19:43.281
Much like Inoki rarely got pinned, and in modern history,
00:19:43.701 --> 00:19:50.281
Riki Choshu was about the only Japanese wrestler who pinned Anthony Inoki with
00:19:50.281 --> 00:19:54.601
clothesline 1-3, no interference, no excuse kind of finish.
00:19:55.341 --> 00:19:59.781
And yeah, Ricky Choshu was the only one. And Tenryu becomes very first Japanese
00:19:59.781 --> 00:20:04.521
wrestler to pin Giant Baba 1-3 with his powerbomb.
00:20:04.701 --> 00:20:12.621
Tag team situations, you know, it should be Tenryu, Ashura Hara against Baba and Stan probably.
00:20:13.141 --> 00:20:16.461
Yeah, or Baba and Dori Feng Jr. probably. Tag team situation.
00:20:16.661 --> 00:20:23.821
But that was a night Tenryu become very first Japanese wrestler to pin Giant Barber one, two, three.
00:20:24.461 --> 00:20:31.061
And very next day on Tokyo Sports coverage, you'll have a lot of UWF,
00:20:31.341 --> 00:20:36.381
Tokyo Dome, U-Cosmos show, but big split, the turning page,
00:20:36.781 --> 00:20:39.821
yes, Tenryu pinning Giant Barber, it has to be big news.
00:20:40.581 --> 00:20:47.341
So they seem to use Tokyo Sports as a vehicle, not just a coverage,
00:20:47.581 --> 00:20:50.241
but what's important in wrestling community.
00:20:52.261 --> 00:20:59.641
Amount of coverage and yeah so like stealing the space within a newspaper does that make sense?
00:20:59.981 --> 00:21:04.281
By creating the better angle the bigger program yeah because they could have
00:21:04.281 --> 00:21:05.881
done this any other day right?
00:21:06.221 --> 00:21:13.401
Sure they choose to have that day to have Tenryu pinning Giant Baba for the
00:21:13.401 --> 00:21:20.161
first time and becoming very first Japanese wrestler to pin Giant Baba yeah
00:21:20.161 --> 00:21:22.341
so it's like They had to make a big deal there.
00:21:23.061 --> 00:21:27.681
So a lot of things like this happened, but you would notice it.
00:21:27.861 --> 00:21:29.561
You think it was all coincidence.
00:21:30.501 --> 00:21:33.361
There is no coincidence in wrestling. You know what I'm saying?
00:21:33.841 --> 00:21:38.221
Yeah. Yeah. It was well-designed, you know, is what I'm saying. Yeah.
00:21:38.721 --> 00:21:46.961
So Baba was, you know, was another one that, you know, probably won Jumbo.
00:21:47.141 --> 00:21:50.681
And Baba was the only two Japanese wrestlers who pinned Brody, you
00:21:50.681 --> 00:21:54.121
know at the time and it was very interesting
00:21:54.121 --> 00:21:57.181
early 80s was where New Japan and
00:21:57.181 --> 00:22:00.081
Old Japan therefore Inoki and John Baba
00:22:00.081 --> 00:22:05.481
competed the most because they were both active in the ring and the promoter
00:22:05.481 --> 00:22:12.321
and you know they were carrying carried by network television or this you know
00:22:12.321 --> 00:22:19.801
they did all the way to 90s but in a better time slot in 79 Baba lost the prime time you know,
00:22:20.584 --> 00:22:25.724
In April of 79, I remember that the All Japan Pro Wrestling,
00:22:25.824 --> 00:22:33.224
they changed the time slot from Saturday night, 8 o'clock to 5.30 in the afternoon on Saturday.
00:22:35.744 --> 00:22:38.944
I was actually in high school.
00:22:39.204 --> 00:22:44.064
I was like, Saturday afternoon, 5 o'clock, I won't be home. I was saying.
00:22:44.724 --> 00:22:47.304
You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:48.504 --> 00:22:55.344
And the one-hour show became a 30-minute show. 5.30 to 6 on Saturday night, I'll never be home.
00:22:56.324 --> 00:23:03.284
And so that was, you know, because TV industry is really, well,
00:23:03.304 --> 00:23:07.544
of course, cutthroat, but just as soon as this rating,
00:23:08.204 --> 00:23:15.024
you know, declining or not having big advertiser or any little thing like a TV,
00:23:15.784 --> 00:23:22.424
like a very TV value thing, they change their time slot.
00:23:23.464 --> 00:23:29.104
You're not good enough to be on prime time and go to Saturday afternoon.
00:23:29.364 --> 00:23:33.164
It's like, wow, it's still on network, but that's hard to get, right?
00:23:33.504 --> 00:23:37.744
And in 1979, people didn't have VCR yet. Right.
00:23:38.504 --> 00:23:42.104
Yeah, yeah. So this is a good decline, you know,
00:23:42.224 --> 00:23:47.984
And I think the biggest challenge in the promoter Jan Barber faced was that
00:23:47.984 --> 00:23:53.924
we talked about this a couple of weeks ago that Ricky Choshu and 15 of his guys
00:23:53.924 --> 00:23:59.484
migrated from New Japan to Old Japan and worked 85 and 86, if you remember. Mm-hmm.
00:24:01.022 --> 00:24:07.062
Then spring of 87, all the Ricky Choshu's guys, again, went back to New Japan
00:24:07.062 --> 00:24:12.342
and made Old Japan crew almost skeleton, you know.
00:24:12.962 --> 00:24:19.082
And Yoshiaki Yatsu and Kinrokan, well, soon to be retired, but were about the
00:24:19.082 --> 00:24:22.182
only wrestlers that stayed with Old Japan.
00:24:22.182 --> 00:24:31.962
But what Baba did was to turn Genichiro Tenryu heel for the first time and went up against Jumbo Tsuru.
00:24:32.202 --> 00:24:37.902
That created a very serious top single match card program. Remember?
00:24:40.322 --> 00:24:46.002
And that really elevated Tenryu as a single main event guy too.
00:24:46.002 --> 00:24:51.462
Because when Jumbo and Tenryu were a tag team, Kakuryu, you know,
00:24:51.562 --> 00:24:53.322
Jumbo Tsura and Genichiro Tenryu
00:24:53.322 --> 00:24:58.182
as a tag team clearly Jumbo was a guy and Tenryu was number two, huh?
00:24:59.622 --> 00:25:06.902
Much like Giant Baba and Anthony Noki combination decades back when Giant Baba
00:25:06.902 --> 00:25:09.982
and Anthony Noki were tag team together yeah,
00:25:10.142 --> 00:25:14.102
clearly Giant Baba was above and Anthony
00:25:14.102 --> 00:25:17.402
Noki was number two and rather underdog that
00:25:17.402 --> 00:25:20.822
made him popular of course but kind of same you
00:25:20.822 --> 00:25:27.822
know same scenario that jumbo when jumbo and tenru were together jumbo yes bigger
00:25:27.822 --> 00:25:33.982
and bigger and bigger and better right but when when they turned tenru that
00:25:33.982 --> 00:25:38.762
really made him number one in american term heel of course,
00:25:40.020 --> 00:25:44.000
Japanese storyline has to be a little bit more realistic, huh?
00:25:45.040 --> 00:25:52.540
And Tenryu made a statement that the reason he wanted to go against the company
00:25:52.540 --> 00:25:59.900
and establish him was that All Japan Wrestling is not popular because of the style.
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:03.300
They don't believe you. They don't believe in our style.
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:08.900
That's when he started using this severe Tenryu chop. You know,
00:26:09.100 --> 00:26:18.060
the backhand, yeah, like Ric Flair in Oahu McDaniels, but he made it into finish,
00:26:18.260 --> 00:26:18.840
you know what I'm saying?
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:25.600
Yeah, because his backhand chop, Tenryu chop, is so serious looking that you
00:26:25.600 --> 00:26:27.420
just can't help but believe it.
00:26:27.760 --> 00:26:31.140
And also that much like
00:26:31.140 --> 00:26:34.380
Ricky Choshu's statement decades back that
00:26:34.380 --> 00:26:42.140
when Ricky Choshu challenged the company Inoki and Fujinami he was going against
00:26:42.140 --> 00:26:44.420
company and establishment like
00:26:44.420 --> 00:26:51.140
your anti-hero right and basically he but people love that kind of guy,
00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:59.420
kind of like an anti-hero anti-hero yeah but he made he changed the style of
00:26:59.420 --> 00:27:05.020
All Japan Pro Wrestling and all of a sudden All Japan Pro Wrestling style is so serious.
00:27:05.980 --> 00:27:13.160
But what people didn't calculate was that Jumbo is so big and strong that he
00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:15.320
could stand and take it. You know what I'm saying?
00:27:15.820 --> 00:27:20.420
He was tough too. And they all had believable backgrounds too.
00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:24.880
The sumo, amateur wrestling. Amateur Olympic wrestling.
00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:30.660
And also, come to think of it, Jumbo, since the rookie year,
00:27:30.660 --> 00:27:36.260
He was the one having an important single match against every single American superstar,
00:27:36.540 --> 00:27:42.960
from the Funks to Jack Briscoe to Race to Billy Robinson to, you know, you name them.
00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:51.960
Yeah, right. Jumbo was young and was kind of under Giant Barber's wing at all times. But he, yes.
00:27:52.966 --> 00:27:56.466
Held on his own and he's tall strong big
00:27:56.466 --> 00:28:00.026
and just it's so i mean as a wrestler a
00:28:00.026 --> 00:28:06.766
great worker is almost so perfect that was why he wasn't that popular you know
00:28:06.766 --> 00:28:14.286
what i mean he's too yeah i guess so yeah but that that the ten root turn his
00:28:14.286 --> 00:28:19.266
partner ten root turning on jumbo and challenging him for a single match,
00:28:19.466 --> 00:28:24.306
that made Jumbo human too. Does that make sense? Yeah.
00:28:25.026 --> 00:28:31.666
Yeah, so these two, Jumbo against Tenryu's single match became all of a sudden so interesting.
00:28:32.066 --> 00:28:37.626
You know? Probably promoter, producer, Baba didn't even calculate that far. You know?
00:28:38.126 --> 00:28:43.386
And Tenryu, the underdog, and like a heelish, but the cool guy,
00:28:43.586 --> 00:28:46.566
doing the cool match, not fancy moves,
00:28:46.966 --> 00:28:54.666
but a bunch of slaps and ten-root chops, backhand chops that you bleed from
00:28:54.666 --> 00:28:58.606
your chest and simple powerbomb for the finish.
00:28:59.206 --> 00:29:04.986
You don't need too many moves to convince the audience that this is just devastating,
00:29:05.246 --> 00:29:07.226
strong type-style match.
00:29:07.406 --> 00:29:12.086
And now that Ricky Choshu and his guys are gone, then all of a sudden,
00:29:12.346 --> 00:29:16.086
wow, they got all kinds of fresh matchups.
00:29:16.086 --> 00:29:22.906
They divided all Japan Japanese crew into two factions, Tenryu's group and Jumbo's group.
00:29:23.286 --> 00:29:27.886
Traditionally, Babyface and Heels, if you look at it from America,
00:29:28.226 --> 00:29:34.866
they divided all Japan Japanese crew into Babyface Japanese and Heel Japanese. Yeah, right.
00:29:35.086 --> 00:29:44.106
But if you present the program in serious manner, yeah, it's not your traditional Babyface and Heels.
00:29:44.106 --> 00:29:50.246
It was, but, right, Tenryu, this is, we called it Tenryu Revolution.
00:29:50.706 --> 00:29:52.486
And it was really believable.
00:29:53.875 --> 00:30:02.475
They did real believable things because they changed their top and bottom track
00:30:02.475 --> 00:30:06.135
suit into All Japan one and Tenryu Groups one.
00:30:06.275 --> 00:30:09.015
And they were in a completely different dressing room.
00:30:09.315 --> 00:30:13.195
They were traveling in completely different buses and hotels.
00:30:13.615 --> 00:30:18.315
You know what I'm saying? Made it very believable. Two factions in one company,
00:30:18.355 --> 00:30:19.675
but they don't travel together.
00:30:19.675 --> 00:30:23.755
They are not staying in the same hotel and they are not in the same dressing
00:30:23.755 --> 00:30:27.575
room and they were wearing to be obvious, you know, different color,
00:30:28.175 --> 00:30:33.055
tracksuit, top and bottom so it's obvious that which guy is in which group and yeah,
00:30:33.135 --> 00:30:38.335
it was a very interesting time that people almost forgot that the 15 guys in
00:30:38.335 --> 00:30:42.275
the Choshu's group were gone but they created a lot you know,
00:30:42.295 --> 00:30:46.415
giant puppet create that very fresh very fresh,
00:30:46.555 --> 00:30:49.835
you know the card in the matchup.
00:30:50.435 --> 00:30:57.475
And this guy was not the promising prospect at the beginning,
00:30:57.695 --> 00:31:00.975
tall, but he will be superstar.
00:31:01.235 --> 00:31:05.315
I'm talking about Kenta Kobashi makes his debut in February of 88.
00:31:06.195 --> 00:31:07.835
In the middle of this program.
00:31:08.395 --> 00:31:10.155
Red tights, red knee pad.
00:31:10.935 --> 00:31:14.355
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very young. Being really tall, really tall,
00:31:14.475 --> 00:31:21.055
and actually, you know, it's hard to believe in hindsight, But he didn't make
00:31:21.055 --> 00:31:23.455
a couple auditions until he made it.
00:31:24.895 --> 00:31:33.475
It was Mrs. Barber who read his bio in high school, like your athletic resume.
00:31:35.215 --> 00:31:40.195
He didn't make national championship in any sports or anything like that.
00:31:40.335 --> 00:31:46.775
And he was right out of high school. He was the factory worker at the Kyocera,
00:31:46.975 --> 00:31:49.995
and he was lifting weight. But Mrs.
00:31:50.235 --> 00:31:55.915
Barber looking at this bio, but this guy has no athletic background.
00:31:56.155 --> 00:32:01.315
Of course, everybody plays some sport in high school. But if you look at Kobashi, you would know.
00:32:01.435 --> 00:32:06.115
But he didn't make a couple of auditions or he didn't make the resume.
00:32:07.535 --> 00:32:12.295
And this 18-year-old Kobashi made a phone call to the office.
00:32:12.635 --> 00:32:14.635
He wanted to know that why he was.
00:32:15.733 --> 00:32:21.893
He wasn't even allowed to have the live audition. He flunked on bio paper,
00:32:22.093 --> 00:32:25.893
you know, and he didn't understand. So he called the office and somebody told
00:32:25.893 --> 00:32:27.573
him, you have no athletic background.
00:32:27.933 --> 00:32:31.353
And he called. And then so he spent next year lifting weight.
00:32:31.653 --> 00:32:33.433
You know, I mean, he was tall enough, right?
00:32:33.853 --> 00:32:36.793
Really tall for Japanese, but he was skinny.
00:32:37.093 --> 00:32:42.013
So he next year while he was still working, you know, in factory of Kyocera
00:32:42.013 --> 00:32:47.313
in Kyoto, that he lifted weight, you know. and he made the weightlifting club
00:32:47.313 --> 00:32:51.173
in the factory he was working and went in another audition.
00:32:52.013 --> 00:32:58.453
And this time that he was called to come in to the spot show, we call it.
00:32:58.753 --> 00:33:05.233
You know, the house shows like way in the middle of a small town that they run like during the week.
00:33:05.413 --> 00:33:08.093
Rec center, no dark lighting.
00:33:10.153 --> 00:33:13.233
Something like that. Or big parking lot
00:33:13.233 --> 00:33:16.113
right next to shopping mall or something sure or next
00:33:16.113 --> 00:33:18.953
to the pool or something of course of course
00:33:18.953 --> 00:33:22.093
yeah anywhere yeah that he was
00:33:22.093 --> 00:33:24.753
called you know called to come into that you know
00:33:24.753 --> 00:33:30.053
come into this show on that day the little town we've never heard of right and
00:33:30.053 --> 00:33:35.353
that was a test that if we show up you know and you don't even know how to get
00:33:35.353 --> 00:33:40.433
there you know this is before google you know i'm saying small take that train
00:33:40.433 --> 00:33:43.853
and take bus after the train and,
00:33:43.933 --> 00:33:47.013
you know, you'll find the town and come to the show. Right.
00:33:47.653 --> 00:33:53.293
And, but they made him do that. Then Kobashi found the building and showed up
00:33:53.293 --> 00:33:59.753
at this small house show, spot show, you know, then just as soon as John Bob
00:33:59.753 --> 00:34:01.893
himself saw him, he signed.
00:34:03.418 --> 00:34:09.258
Yeah, I mean, looking at him as a face, the height, the body he already had,
00:34:09.578 --> 00:34:16.438
and just the enthusiasm that they didn't think he would show up at the smallest town.
00:34:16.818 --> 00:34:19.578
If he comes in, they'll let him in. You know what I'm saying?
00:34:20.878 --> 00:34:26.998
Kobachi has a lot of natural charisma. Yeah, yeah. Underdog kind of charisma.
00:34:27.878 --> 00:34:33.118
And yeah, and I grew up in a very poor part of town in Kyoto kind of thing.
00:34:33.418 --> 00:34:36.258
Yeah self-made man oh pretty
00:34:36.258 --> 00:34:39.038
much so from the day one yeah and he was
00:34:39.038 --> 00:34:41.838
made into you know baba's corner guy you know
00:34:41.838 --> 00:34:46.038
like carry baba's you know suitcase and going
00:34:46.038 --> 00:34:49.138
to you know japanese hot tub and wash baba's
00:34:49.138 --> 00:34:51.938
back and all these things you know kobashi was doing that
00:34:51.938 --> 00:34:55.018
you know i don't know if we talked about it too much on
00:34:55.018 --> 00:34:58.518
our last show but before kobashi uh
00:34:58.518 --> 00:35:01.298
atsusha onita was was that kind
00:35:01.298 --> 00:35:06.058
of figure for baba for a while in the 80s yeah yeah although yeah from like
00:35:06.058 --> 00:35:12.358
a mid 70s into early 80s but he was a little guy actually you know but today's
00:35:12.358 --> 00:35:16.698
standard onita isn't all that small because we have a lot of small wrestlers
00:35:16.698 --> 00:35:19.378
now sure but in baba's standard,
00:35:20.078 --> 00:35:25.618
onita was so short you know right you talk about baba the jambotsura the old
00:35:25.618 --> 00:35:29.238
american wrestlers you know, Tenryu was considered not that tall.
00:35:29.618 --> 00:35:30.298
You know what I'm saying?
00:35:30.718 --> 00:35:36.538
So Onita was like, you are, you know, like designed to be a junior heavyweight guy, you know?
00:35:37.858 --> 00:35:43.678
But Onita in his mind that, you know, even early days that I'll be main event someday.
00:35:44.158 --> 00:35:47.318
I mean, that kind of guy, you know, I'm not going to be in the middle of the card, you know?
00:35:47.818 --> 00:35:51.318
Somewhat, somehow, Onita, you know, to show Onita will become main event.
00:35:51.538 --> 00:35:54.338
In Baba's, you know, world, probably wouldn't have happened, huh?
00:35:54.338 --> 00:36:00.398
You know baba favored the bigger guys he always liked the the bigger a little
00:36:00.398 --> 00:36:07.598
stocky over six four it seemed like sure that could also but that's what wrestling business was hmm.
00:36:08.703 --> 00:36:12.423
It was a heavyweight business at the time, especially back then. Yeah, definitely.
00:36:12.803 --> 00:36:20.483
And also what he saw in America, like 62, 63, 64, all the people he worked up
00:36:20.483 --> 00:36:24.963
against, Killer Kowalski, Bobo Brazil, Bruno San Martino,
00:36:25.543 --> 00:36:28.303
yeah, all these huge guys. Yeah.
00:36:28.763 --> 00:36:35.003
So the wrestling business was for literally larger-than-life guys. For giants. Yeah.
00:36:35.243 --> 00:36:43.683
Yeah. And also in the late 70s into the very early 80s, Onita hurt his both
00:36:43.683 --> 00:36:45.863
knees. He was forced to retire.
00:36:46.123 --> 00:36:52.363
I mean, he broke both knees, and that was it for him. Yeah.
00:36:53.163 --> 00:36:56.343
Right. But it's a legend. It's a myth.
00:36:56.703 --> 00:37:02.443
But Mr. and Mrs. Baba not having any children, that they were going to adopt
00:37:02.443 --> 00:37:05.843
Atsushi Onita as their adopted son. Wow.
00:37:06.683 --> 00:37:10.283
Interesting, huh? Yeah, very. Very much so.
00:37:10.443 --> 00:37:15.423
And also, you know, Dory and Terry Funk were like their family.
00:37:15.863 --> 00:37:23.163
And even after Onita retired for the first time, he went on his own to Amarillo
00:37:23.163 --> 00:37:24.963
to stay with Terry Funk for months.
00:37:25.243 --> 00:37:27.803
You know? Yeah, stay in his house.
00:37:28.563 --> 00:37:33.563
You know? Probably Baba told him to retire, but in Onita's mind,
00:37:33.563 --> 00:37:37.083
And he was going to make comeback somewhat, somehow, huh?
00:37:38.323 --> 00:37:45.583
Some way. Some way. And when he went out to Amarillo, Texas to stay with Terry
00:37:45.583 --> 00:37:49.463
Funk, of course, Terry Funk was the one doing that. Right?
00:37:50.483 --> 00:37:55.483
Yeah. How many times? Well, the first time Terry Funk retired, that was in 1983.
00:37:55.643 --> 00:37:59.583
Summer of 83 was a huge deal. It made comeback a couple years later.
00:37:59.843 --> 00:38:03.443
I mean, a couple years later. But yeah, Onita did the same thing.
00:38:03.563 --> 00:38:05.923
How many times do Onita have retired? Seven?
00:38:06.363 --> 00:38:09.303
Is it seven? Yeah. Something like that. Seven or eight.
00:38:09.743 --> 00:38:12.903
Well, technically he's retired now, but he's working the match now.
00:38:13.699 --> 00:38:17.419
Does he still say that he's a volunteer wrestler or something?
00:38:17.759 --> 00:38:20.519
I don't know. Those are all comments.
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:28.239
Now we know it's all wrestling storyline. Right. I don't think he's going to ever retire for real.
00:38:28.659 --> 00:38:36.399
And as long as the people who want to see his Bob Dwyer time bomb,
00:38:36.539 --> 00:38:41.259
electrified, this and this bomb match, death match, that he will do it.
00:38:41.259 --> 00:38:43.779
In fact, he's in the States right now.
00:38:44.279 --> 00:38:48.979
That's right. Yeah, he's going to be at one of the WrestleCon or WrestleMania week.
00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:52.339
Yeah, and then also work a match in Texas, I believe.
00:38:52.699 --> 00:38:58.619
Yeah, because they're a generation younger than he is that he wants to touch
00:38:58.619 --> 00:39:00.739
the legend in the ring physically.
00:39:01.279 --> 00:39:04.339
They'll prepare the death match in America.
00:39:04.819 --> 00:39:09.479
You need to fly in and do your historical death match with you.
00:39:09.479 --> 00:39:13.539
Yeah he's become something another
00:39:13.539 --> 00:39:17.039
layer of a cult character a cult persona over
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:25.579
here sure sure and he's what 65 66 something like that yeah yeah but that's
00:39:25.579 --> 00:39:31.479
baba's one of those baba's wrestling children not the traditional authentic
00:39:31.479 --> 00:39:35.739
one nonetheless yeah uh onita still is Bob,
00:39:35.839 --> 00:39:38.059
you know, like a Boba family, I think.
00:39:38.479 --> 00:39:41.479
And there's, you know, Odo, King's Road, right?
00:39:41.779 --> 00:39:47.759
And if there wasn't King's Road, Odo, there is no Jado, which is Onita,
00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:49.419
you know, out of the way, you know?
00:39:49.539 --> 00:39:52.479
The evil way, the way off the path.
00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:55.039
Thesis and antithesis.
00:39:56.539 --> 00:40:01.919
Yeah, so doing the complete opposite thing, but I think...
00:40:02.762 --> 00:40:07.042
Onita unto existed without Giant Baba's traditional wrestling,
00:40:07.782 --> 00:40:10.442
but it comes back to that theme that we
00:40:10.442 --> 00:40:13.442
talked about when we talk about Inoki when
00:40:13.442 --> 00:40:17.362
we talk about Baba the idea of establishment versus anti-establishment
00:40:17.362 --> 00:40:23.842
I think that theme yeah yeah but but those are against each other but what I'm
00:40:23.842 --> 00:40:33.622
talking about Onita is still within sure sure yeah yeah and what was interesting was that in 1989.
00:40:34.462 --> 00:40:38.502
PWF, Pacific Wrestling Federation title, International Heavyweight title,
00:40:38.842 --> 00:40:45.222
UN, United National Heavyweight title, all three single titles combined becomes Triple Crown, right?
00:40:45.402 --> 00:40:50.322
That was April 1989, the very last beginning of Heisei era,
00:40:51.102 --> 00:40:56.802
Jumbo beat, then International Champion Jumbo beat, then PWF and UN Champion
00:40:56.802 --> 00:41:00.622
Stan Hansen therefore combined three titles in one.
00:41:01.282 --> 00:41:09.422
And that was the year that only, you know, I said, you know, April of 1989, right?
00:41:09.602 --> 00:41:12.022
The Triple Crown was, you know, created.
00:41:12.282 --> 00:41:18.122
And only two months later, Tenryu beats Jumbo at Budokan.
00:41:18.282 --> 00:41:24.262
And it was the first time Tenryu beats Jumbo 1, 2, 3 in the middle of the ring
00:41:24.262 --> 00:41:27.142
to be the Triple Crown champion.
00:41:27.142 --> 00:41:35.362
It takes a while for Giant Baba's operation to switch titles and make main event guy you know.
00:41:36.782 --> 00:41:42.022
If you remember the only crisis that promoter Giant Baba had was,
00:41:42.882 --> 00:41:52.522
Tenryu Jumbo program was so strong so strong like 87 88 89 yeah very strong
00:41:52.522 --> 00:41:57.002
three year run Jumbo against Tenryu Jumbo against Tenryu or the
00:41:57.142 --> 00:42:00.242
Jumbo and his guys against Tenryu and his guys,
00:42:00.582 --> 00:42:04.522
you know, tag team situation, but it was a very strong three-year program.
00:42:05.222 --> 00:42:08.862
Then, there was, if you remember, Wrestling Summit.
00:42:10.522 --> 00:42:16.862
All Japan, New Japan, and WWF, three major companies had run the Tokyo Dome card.
00:42:18.102 --> 00:42:22.082
We talk about it, right? Yeah. It was April of 1990,
00:42:22.542 --> 00:42:26.902
yeah, that the main event was Stan against Stan Henson against Hulk Hogan,
00:42:27.142 --> 00:42:30.622
Giant Baba and Under the Giant made a tag team for the first time and,
00:42:30.622 --> 00:42:33.302
you know, went up, you know, beat Demolition.
00:42:33.922 --> 00:42:39.782
And Tenryu had a very historical strong single match against Randy Savage. Yeah.
00:42:40.622 --> 00:42:47.082
Such. Two months after that, Tenryu left All Japan for real.
00:42:48.142 --> 00:42:57.162
And, you know, March of 1990 formed, ill-fated, but formed SWS, Super World Sports.
00:42:57.422 --> 00:43:03.542
That was the very first company, the wrestling company, that was owned by a corporate sponsor.
00:43:04.462 --> 00:43:09.582
It's a Megane Super at the Optical, you know, the Megane company.
00:43:09.582 --> 00:43:18.982
That they dumped millions in Ichioku, Jiuoku, just big budget to create new wrestling company.
00:43:19.442 --> 00:43:23.442
And Tenryu was recruited to be the top star and a producer.
00:43:24.082 --> 00:43:29.762
And after that, Tenryu, you know, from all Japan, there's, you know,
00:43:30.262 --> 00:43:38.822
Isao Takagi, the Yatsu, the great Kabuki, the Shunji Takano, about 15 guys left.
00:43:40.322 --> 00:43:46.062
From All Japan. It was the first time that All Japan Pro Wrestling and promoter,
00:43:46.162 --> 00:43:55.022
Jampab, had not storyline, program, that crisis, but the wrestlers actually left the company.
00:43:55.482 --> 00:44:00.062
See, New Japan is like a history of that breaking up and forming again and coming
00:44:00.062 --> 00:44:04.682
back, and all these Maeda's group, the Choshu's group, this and that,
00:44:04.822 --> 00:44:09.462
that's not that big of a deal for New Japan because that's how they got bigger.
00:44:09.582 --> 00:44:16.022
But from the beginning of 1972 all the way to 1990, wrestlers never really left.
00:44:16.362 --> 00:44:17.142
You know what I'm saying?
00:44:18.602 --> 00:44:23.302
Yeah, the Japanese wrestler who was under contract with All Japan Pro Wrestling
00:44:23.302 --> 00:44:26.442
was almost like what we call a lifer. You know? Right, right.
00:44:27.082 --> 00:44:33.982
Yeah. You will be staying with that company. You may not make main event, but if you be...
00:44:35.270 --> 00:44:41.350
You know, good employee, I should say, and model, yeah, model employee and being
00:44:41.350 --> 00:44:46.250
good citizen or whatever that, you know, that if you stay safe,
00:44:46.330 --> 00:44:47.850
you be safe, you know, kind of company.
00:44:48.210 --> 00:44:53.350
That made all Japan progressing seem kind of soft from outside too,
00:44:53.430 --> 00:44:57.990
because nothing's going to happen, you know, nobody's going to really leave
00:44:57.990 --> 00:45:00.930
this company like Shoshu would in New Japan, you know,
00:45:01.350 --> 00:45:05.530
like Maeda would, you know, challenging Antonio Noki within the company.
00:45:06.010 --> 00:45:07.570
That kind of thing never happens.
00:45:08.610 --> 00:45:12.470
Yes, Giant Baba, Jumbo Tsura single match happened a couple of times,
00:45:12.790 --> 00:45:16.090
but the Jumbo never beat him.
00:45:17.110 --> 00:45:21.990
What's very interesting, remember, I just told you about the night Tenryu pinned
00:45:21.990 --> 00:45:25.570
Baba with his powerbomb for the first time, one, two, three, that happened.
00:45:27.270 --> 00:45:31.910
Jumbo Tsura, I mean, obviously, like the number one guy after Giant Baba, right?
00:45:32.670 --> 00:45:36.450
Jambo actually never had any single match win over Giant Baba.
00:45:37.670 --> 00:45:43.470
Interesting. Much like Tatsumi Fujinami never had single match win over Antonio Inoki. It was Choshu.
00:45:43.670 --> 00:45:50.370
It was Choshu who beat Inoki twice with his clothesline. It's very similar.
00:45:51.030 --> 00:45:56.690
Jambo had, you know, opportunity to have single match in a couple occasions or more.
00:45:57.010 --> 00:46:00.830
There were single match against Giant Baba, but Baba always beat him.
00:46:00.830 --> 00:46:08.010
Very interesting but he let Tenryu beat him 1-3 in the middle of the ring although
00:46:08.010 --> 00:46:14.490
it was a tag team situation but beating Baba big deal right huge deal huge deal yeah.
00:46:16.950 --> 00:46:24.970
Tenryu and his 15 guys actually leaving all Japan was very new to Baba that
00:46:24.970 --> 00:46:30.330
really happened yeah it was April of 1990,
00:46:31.290 --> 00:46:34.050
that Tenryu suddenly quits.
00:46:34.710 --> 00:46:42.770
Then following month, May 10th, Tenryu forms a new company called SWS, Super World Sports.
00:46:43.350 --> 00:46:51.230
And a lot of guys joined, and they were under the impression that they have a big budget.
00:46:51.590 --> 00:46:56.550
They have a big budget, and you'll be making a lot of money with this company.
00:46:57.892 --> 00:47:03.892
From the New Japan side, Naoki Sano and George Takano and a couple of the guys joined.
00:47:04.772 --> 00:47:11.072
And Greg Kabuki joined. And Akiyo Sato from America joined to be the international,
00:47:11.072 --> 00:47:12.852
you know, liaison booker.
00:47:13.232 --> 00:47:16.772
And soon enough that they signed a deal with WWF.
00:47:16.992 --> 00:47:21.892
And all these WWF superstars at the time started coming to SWS.
00:47:21.892 --> 00:47:26.412
Anyhow that was the same May,
00:47:27.212 --> 00:47:33.272
to be exact four days four days after Tenryu made announcement that he's forming
00:47:33.272 --> 00:47:39.812
a new company called SWS four days later Misawa then Tiger Mask he unmasks in the ring,
00:47:40.512 --> 00:47:45.252
interesting he puts his mask into the crowd yeah that was a big moment big time yeah.
00:47:46.332 --> 00:47:52.372
Everything's timing right that had to be that day yeah cause it's a Wow,
00:47:52.932 --> 00:48:01.712
it's just like Misawa becoming his own man, and this guy will be very special, new main event guy.
00:48:02.132 --> 00:48:03.392
I mean, believable.
00:48:03.972 --> 00:48:06.472
Now Tenryu's gone, right?
00:48:07.452 --> 00:48:11.712
Right, that's right. It had to be Misawa. As a Tiger Mask?
00:48:12.052 --> 00:48:16.172
No, as himself, Mitsuharu Misawa, he's ready to do this.
00:48:16.172 --> 00:48:20.512
Then June the very first
00:48:20.512 --> 00:48:23.532
meeting of Misawa without masks in
00:48:23.532 --> 00:48:26.692
green tight the new Misawa up against
00:48:26.692 --> 00:48:32.512
then still strong Jambotsura for the first time then Misawa beats Jambotsura
00:48:32.512 --> 00:48:37.812
that night then Star is Born that was really the greatest one of the greatest
00:48:37.812 --> 00:48:45.312
moments in all Japan history and I guess right before Misawa would win that match.
00:48:46.261 --> 00:48:52.241
Was the feeling in the air among the fans something along the lines of,
00:48:52.581 --> 00:48:58.581
Jumbo was that type of guy, you wouldn't be surprised if he won because he always won.
00:48:59.361 --> 00:49:06.481
Yeah, no emotion. Yeah, it was almost like if it turned out that Jumbo beat
00:49:06.481 --> 00:49:10.821
Misawa in the end, I think nothing would have happened.
00:49:10.821 --> 00:49:14.901
Then people would have went home, it would have been fine, but it wouldn't have been what it was.
00:49:15.101 --> 00:49:17.801
Just because that was the feeling, I think, right?
00:49:18.221 --> 00:49:23.001
The feeling among fans, he was just kind of... Yeah, then again, everything's timing.
00:49:23.561 --> 00:49:30.721
That had to be that night that Tenryu's gone and all Japan lost,
00:49:30.781 --> 00:49:36.821
what, 10, 15 guys, and they brought in 15 new American guys to fill the card.
00:49:36.821 --> 00:49:46.901
And that was the time all these Johnny Ace, Dan Crawford Steve Williams Doug Furness.
00:49:48.041 --> 00:49:54.621
All these new regular American wrestlers being brought in this is an entirely
00:49:54.621 --> 00:50:02.661
new crew, new era has begun instead of being worried about not being able to make it,
00:50:03.581 --> 00:50:11.021
wow it's like a brand new all japan progressing and jumbo still strong stan
00:50:11.021 --> 00:50:16.721
hansen still strong and the terry goldie all these guys are still here and what
00:50:16.721 --> 00:50:22.101
you need is a like a brand new superstar and misawa was a guy,
00:50:22.821 --> 00:50:29.781
and yeah he was ready to do this and mr okay oh no missile beat jump for the
00:50:29.781 --> 00:50:31.781
first time and pinned one, two, three.
00:50:32.381 --> 00:50:39.021
Then Kobashi and Kawada come in the ring and picked up Misawa and put him up on their shoulder.
00:50:39.361 --> 00:50:41.081
Like a real dramatic ending.
00:50:42.607 --> 00:50:46.027
Yeah yeah so it's like wow that
00:50:46.027 --> 00:50:48.827
for for that moment you know everybody i think
00:50:48.827 --> 00:50:52.387
forgot about tenu's new company yeah again
00:50:52.387 --> 00:50:58.347
that's uh that's the baba's tactic i guess is when somebody offers up a big
00:50:58.347 --> 00:51:05.587
story a big angle a big happening baba's gonna probably outdo it it seems like
00:51:05.587 --> 00:51:09.647
and it's not always It's just the strategy. It's the timing, like you said.
00:51:10.807 --> 00:51:16.027
Yeah, but knowing timing is experience. That's true, too. He knew when to pull the trigger.
00:51:17.127 --> 00:51:24.167
Yeah, and sure enough, two years later, 1992, this 10-Ru's SWS went down quick.
00:51:24.807 --> 00:51:27.207
You know? Right. It went away.
00:51:28.027 --> 00:51:34.187
Yeah, it was a big firework or something, and only lasted two years or so,
00:51:34.347 --> 00:51:36.007
and they went down, really.
00:51:37.587 --> 00:51:41.207
It takes a while for Giant Barber to do things, right?
00:51:41.547 --> 00:51:46.567
And it took two more years for Misawa, 1992 to be exact.
00:51:47.027 --> 00:51:51.927
It took two years even for Misawa to win the Triple Crown for the first time.
00:51:52.727 --> 00:51:56.227
Yeah, another two years, 1992, summer, August.
00:51:57.407 --> 00:52:02.387
Misawa, you know, being on top for two years. Misawa beat Stan Hansen for the
00:52:02.387 --> 00:52:05.467
first time in single match situation, the Triple Crown title match.
00:52:05.467 --> 00:52:10.587
He beat Stan Hansen and becomes triple crown champion for the first time two years later.
00:52:10.987 --> 00:52:16.807
And that was also the year the tag team of Misawa and Kawada won the tag team
00:52:16.807 --> 00:52:19.307
tournament in December for the first time.
00:52:19.907 --> 00:52:26.087
Yeah. But 92, we have to remember, this 92, the Misawa becoming triple crown
00:52:26.087 --> 00:52:31.707
champion for the first time and winning December's tag team tournament and all these.
00:52:31.707 --> 00:52:37.147
But 92 was also the year Jumbo Tudor got sick and sidelined.
00:52:37.607 --> 00:52:43.867
And he was never the same after that. He wasn't a main eventer after that. No.
00:52:44.267 --> 00:52:53.127
In November of 92, Jumbo announced that he's not competing into this year's tag team tournament.
00:52:53.307 --> 00:52:57.827
Oh, okay. Then he actually spent the next seven months in hospital.
00:52:57.827 --> 00:53:05.327
You know, and they did, well, wrestling magazine and the Tokyo sports and even
00:53:05.327 --> 00:53:09.947
our magazine, we didn't really interview the doctors.
00:53:10.567 --> 00:53:13.747
You know, it was like going over Giant Baba and Mrs.
00:53:13.887 --> 00:53:19.567
Baba's, you know, over their head to do, you know, interviewing actual doctors. Right.
00:53:19.887 --> 00:53:25.447
So whenever and whatever they were announcing, you know, like an announcement,
00:53:25.687 --> 00:53:27.647
like an official announcement from wrestling company.
00:53:27.827 --> 00:53:30.167
That was the story Wrestling Magazine wrote.
00:53:31.381 --> 00:53:34.701
Actual doctors and hospitals and nurses were not interviewed.
00:53:34.921 --> 00:53:38.981
So we did not really know Jumbo's condition.
00:53:39.221 --> 00:53:46.581
It was said hepatitis B or hepatitis C or the complication of this and that.
00:53:46.821 --> 00:53:53.521
But the only time we share anything was like official news, news release from the company.
00:53:54.541 --> 00:53:58.641
You know what I'm saying? How else did that affect how you reported it?
00:53:59.401 --> 00:54:02.221
Well because there's you have to you know like
00:54:02.221 --> 00:54:05.101
almost think that if company is not talking about
00:54:05.101 --> 00:54:09.621
his real condition that they don't want you to know you
00:54:09.621 --> 00:54:12.601
know i'm saying and if it's a scandal magazine like
00:54:12.601 --> 00:54:15.541
your movie stars or entertainer or the
00:54:15.541 --> 00:54:18.281
baseball player i think the reporters go ahead
00:54:18.281 --> 00:54:21.501
and go interview doctors in the hospitals and
00:54:21.501 --> 00:54:24.721
the actual nurses that were there sure
00:54:24.721 --> 00:54:28.241
and get the real story but in wrestling community i
00:54:28.241 --> 00:54:32.321
guess so professionally trained
00:54:32.321 --> 00:54:39.581
to kayfabe the world it's in a way very unique yeah yeah so i i didn't think
00:54:39.581 --> 00:54:44.801
about it at the time you know then how how sick jumbo really was but somebody
00:54:44.801 --> 00:54:50.281
like that is a big elite athlete you know sideline for seven months,
00:54:50.501 --> 00:54:55.181
and sometimes he's like, you're sick, but you're going to be in hospital just
00:54:55.181 --> 00:54:57.721
one month or so and go home and rest, right?
00:54:58.181 --> 00:55:04.481
And especially someone like Jumbo, who's a big athlete, you don't expect that.
00:55:08.301 --> 00:55:11.981
He wouldn't get out of hospital until June of 93.
00:55:13.381 --> 00:55:17.161
He was in hospital actually for seven months. What was he doing, right?
00:55:18.161 --> 00:55:23.261
Yeah, so we all felt that he's sicker than we were able to believe.
00:55:25.421 --> 00:55:30.661
But the company never made a big announcement of his condition.
00:55:30.881 --> 00:55:35.981
But he did come back in October of that year as a wrestler.
00:55:36.121 --> 00:55:40.801
You know, a little skinnier, but it was at the Budokan, you know,
00:55:41.141 --> 00:55:42.521
but not a main event, of course not.
00:55:42.981 --> 00:55:49.701
Baba and Jumbo and Russia Kimura as a trio had a six-man tag team situation
00:55:49.701 --> 00:55:58.721
against Masafuchi and Haruka Eigen and Jun Izumida clearly before the intermission, right? Yeah.
00:56:01.081 --> 00:56:04.561
But Jumbo made the comeback, so there was a happy, happy time,
00:56:04.701 --> 00:56:09.961
but Baba, Jumbo and Rasha Kimura, like a senior trio, right?
00:56:10.181 --> 00:56:11.821
Six-man tag team situation.
00:56:12.121 --> 00:56:14.301
It's more of an appearance than a match.
00:56:14.841 --> 00:56:19.081
Yeah, they wouldn't do much. Baba comes in, does his chopping kicks.
00:56:19.481 --> 00:56:22.181
Rasha Kimura comes in, do his stuff.
00:56:22.641 --> 00:56:26.641
And Jumbo comes in and says, oh, and does clothesline. That's about it,
00:56:26.701 --> 00:56:29.861
right? Yeah, everyone cheers. Everyone's happy. It's good fanservice.
00:56:30.241 --> 00:56:36.861
Of course, good to have him back. But he was never back into the main event picture after that.
00:56:37.561 --> 00:56:45.761
Yeah. But this timing is so interesting that just as soon as Misawa,
00:56:46.341 --> 00:56:50.521
Kawada, and Kobashi, and Taui, they call it pillars now, right?
00:56:51.201 --> 00:56:55.321
Four big ones, four Top Guns were ready to become big, huge superstars of the
00:56:55.321 --> 00:57:03.381
90s. Jumbo just so happened that Jumbo was ready to retire, realistically.
00:57:05.301 --> 00:57:11.881
Timing is interesting, huh? Do you think all Japan would have looked the same
00:57:11.881 --> 00:57:15.741
if Jumbo had stayed in that position for a few more years?
00:57:17.061 --> 00:57:23.661
But then again, probably Misawa Jumbo program would have been a longer one.
00:57:23.661 --> 00:57:32.481
Much like Jumbo against Tenryu, and Tenryu was able to Jumbo,
00:57:32.521 --> 00:57:34.081
right? Then become equal.
00:57:34.581 --> 00:57:41.681
But I think if Jumbo was well and healthy, it took Misawa a little longer to beat him.
00:57:42.842 --> 00:57:48.262
You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Because when Misawa was Tiger Mask.
00:57:49.562 --> 00:57:55.062
This Misawa version of Tiger Mask was tag team partner of Jumbo Tsura, clearly below.
00:57:55.582 --> 00:57:56.442
Number two.
00:57:57.182 --> 00:58:05.702
Like a three. Yeah, yeah. So in hindsight, timing is a scary, scary thing.
00:58:06.642 --> 00:58:13.242
But all in all, Jumbo came back as an active wrestler, but it was never the same after 93.
00:58:14.222 --> 00:58:20.462
Yeah. Yeah. And also by the time, that's when the younger guys like Misawa,
00:58:20.602 --> 00:58:28.902
Kobashi, Toshiaki, Kawada, Akiyama, a little later on.
00:58:28.902 --> 00:58:31.962
Yeah, Akiyama, like Ruki Akiyama. That's number five. Yeah.
00:58:32.842 --> 00:58:39.662
And Stan Hansen was still there. The whole purpose was that Misawa,
00:58:39.822 --> 00:58:46.802
Kawada, Kobashi, and Tauo, will they eventually beat Stan Hansen in a single match situation?
00:58:47.602 --> 00:58:49.442
Stan's still standing there.
00:58:51.002 --> 00:58:57.302
Stan was always saying that Japanese against Japanese in the main event, fine.
00:58:57.542 --> 00:59:03.702
But that doesn't really deviate the real social structures out there.
00:59:03.702 --> 00:59:07.002
Right like in Japanese corporate
00:59:07.002 --> 00:59:10.302
company structure you work so hard work
00:59:10.302 --> 00:59:13.542
every day until late at night and you've
00:59:13.542 --> 00:59:16.662
been coming over the weekend you know to work work work
00:59:16.662 --> 00:59:19.622
to you know to climb your ladder within
00:59:19.622 --> 00:59:24.402
a company structure or something like a corporate world right and if Japanese
00:59:24.402 --> 00:59:29.462
wrestler and Japanese wrestler you know worked against each other in main event
00:59:29.462 --> 00:59:37.362
and if it's a forever fix that It doesn't deviate from what's happening in the real world.
00:59:37.562 --> 00:59:44.302
What you need in professional wrestling is badass American, what Stan Hansen
00:59:44.302 --> 00:59:51.262
says, the badass big American gaijin that they cannot do anything about physically.
00:59:52.042 --> 00:59:58.682
It's not logic. Stan Hansen will be standing there, I'll beat you, beat your ass.
00:59:59.482 --> 01:00:02.782
You cannot do anything about it. that's wrestling that makes
01:00:02.782 --> 01:00:05.702
sense and it was believable it was
01:00:05.702 --> 01:00:08.762
especially believable at that point because not just
01:00:08.762 --> 01:00:11.522
because of who he was not just because of the style but also because
01:00:11.522 --> 01:00:15.002
he was kind of that last gate that
01:00:15.002 --> 01:00:22.422
yeah the last cowboy of that of that era pre-heisei era all japan jumbo tenryu
01:00:22.422 --> 01:00:28.602
baba yeah right the one by one they stepped down sure and he was kind of the
01:00:28.602 --> 01:00:32.742
last one that could still compete with the faster, younger guys.
01:00:34.119 --> 01:00:41.339
Yeah, and physical. He was usually the more physical in a lot of those early 90s matches.
01:00:41.839 --> 01:00:47.099
It's amazing. Oh, yeah, they're just like a big, huge, badass American that
01:00:47.099 --> 01:00:48.679
they cannot do anything about physically.
01:00:49.019 --> 01:00:52.079
Of course, Misawa, Kawada, they all do their style in the ring.
01:00:52.219 --> 01:00:52.999
They'll kick you in the face.
01:00:53.439 --> 01:00:59.939
But at the end of the day, do you remember the way Stan Henson was clotheslining Kawada?
01:01:00.379 --> 01:01:06.879
Yeah. We had some videotapes. Yeah. Or I think it was maybe the 1992 match where
01:01:06.879 --> 01:01:08.839
towards the end of the match he had with Kobashi,
01:01:08.999 --> 01:01:14.319
he just used the lariat while he was on the top rope and just knocked him right
01:01:14.319 --> 01:01:15.899
off the top rope, and that was pretty much it.
01:01:17.379 --> 01:01:21.719
I mean, there is no more believable wrestling than that, right?
01:01:22.599 --> 01:01:26.959
It came out of nowhere, and it was believable, especially when you know that
01:01:26.959 --> 01:01:28.279
he's blind without his glasses.
01:01:29.159 --> 01:01:32.939
Yeah, they're extremely nearsighted. It really
01:01:32.939 --> 01:01:36.059
came through in that match It's not amazing
01:01:36.059 --> 01:01:39.019
In professional wrestling Promo and mic work
01:01:39.019 --> 01:01:42.259
is so important But never once Stan did
01:01:42.259 --> 01:01:45.899
promo Or backstage skit Or
01:01:45.899 --> 01:01:52.119
the long interview To establish his storyline He just come in And just swing
01:01:52.119 --> 01:01:57.439
his cowbell And go into the ring And take his cowboy boots And leather vest
01:01:57.439 --> 01:02:02.339
Cowboy attire off and up he goes and just does football,
01:02:02.699 --> 01:02:05.959
tuckle just knock people off that on
01:02:05.959 --> 01:02:08.979
the apron heavy looking double knee drop
01:02:08.979 --> 01:02:17.539
he does and a big like a fat elbow drop he does and he signals audience with
01:02:17.539 --> 01:02:25.139
his left arm up when he fixes the elbow pad here comes his lariat and he finished
01:02:25.139 --> 01:02:28.519
the match and also he's so old fashioned that,
01:02:29.379 --> 01:02:33.879
he does not allow his finish to get kicked out at the count of two.
01:02:35.039 --> 01:02:38.139
If it's not to finish the match, he doesn't even use it.
01:02:39.583 --> 01:02:42.883
I mean, something can be learned from that, you know, even today,
01:02:42.983 --> 01:02:49.903
you know, you don't, you know, want, let guy kick out from your rainmaker or something, right?
01:02:51.003 --> 01:02:56.103
Yeah. Protecting your signature moves. Oh, definitely, definitely.
01:02:56.563 --> 01:03:02.983
And Stan Hansen was more Baba student than anybody for that matter. Yeah.
01:03:03.923 --> 01:03:11.163
So Tenryu quit, and Jumbo got sick, and Misawa and his group of the whole new
01:03:11.163 --> 01:03:16.003
generation of superstars elevated to be the superstar of all Japan.
01:03:16.323 --> 01:03:21.683
And Stan Hansen was still there, standing strong, which was very good, though.
01:03:22.263 --> 01:03:27.763
And by having Stan Hansen, if you remember, end-of-the-year tag teams,
01:03:28.103 --> 01:03:32.603
you know, real world tag team tournament, Stan Hansen, you know,
01:03:32.763 --> 01:03:34.203
initially had, you know.
01:03:35.163 --> 01:03:37.903
Bruce Brody as his partner in the early 80s.
01:03:37.903 --> 01:03:41.663
He went to New Japan and came back, but he was never the tag team partner again.
01:03:42.183 --> 01:03:46.763
Stan Hansen and Terry Gordy as a partner. Stan Hansen and Danny Spivey.
01:03:47.183 --> 01:03:51.603
Stan Hansen and Johnny Ace. Stan Hansen and Gary Albright.
01:03:52.223 --> 01:03:57.083
And Stan. Oh, there was a Tenryu and Stan. And there was a tag team of Stan
01:03:57.083 --> 01:03:59.463
Hansen and Kawada, if you remember.
01:03:59.463 --> 01:04:09.243
One year and at the end of the 90s Stan Hansen took up Vader as his official
01:04:09.243 --> 01:04:16.703
partner and participated in the very end of the century 1999 tag team tournament Vader,
01:04:16.883 --> 01:04:23.463
Stan Hansen against Kobashi and Akiyama and it was a night Kobashi pinned Stan
01:04:23.463 --> 01:04:28.903
Hansen with his right arm lariat huge one,
01:04:29.463 --> 01:04:33.943
Yeah, the reason I'm talking about was that, oh, 1998, I said.
01:04:34.743 --> 01:04:44.863
1998, December 5th, Budokan was Jan Barba's very final wrestling match in his life.
01:04:45.303 --> 01:04:53.743
Barba, Russia Kimura, and Mitsuho Momota against Masafuchi and Kikuchi and Eigen Haruka.
01:04:53.743 --> 01:04:59.663
Of course, his spot that, you know, designated six-man tag team situation,
01:05:00.043 --> 01:05:06.203
but the bubble worked that night and that was his final match of life.
01:05:07.063 --> 01:05:16.783
And what's interesting is though, 1998, 1998 was the year both Antonio Inoki
01:05:16.783 --> 01:05:18.883
and John Barber had their final match.
01:05:19.932 --> 01:05:26.752
April 4th of 1998, Inoki had his big, huge retirement, you know,
01:05:27.592 --> 01:05:29.572
big spectacular at the Tokyo Dome.
01:05:29.832 --> 01:05:36.212
He had a match against Don Fry, a match against Sting, a match against Gerald
01:05:36.212 --> 01:05:39.892
Goldo, that Dutch karate guy.
01:05:40.132 --> 01:05:44.952
So he did the American wrestling, he did the MMA, and he did this and that.
01:05:44.952 --> 01:05:50.692
And Inoki finished his 38th career in April of 1998.
01:05:51.312 --> 01:05:57.272
Interesting enough that 1998, six months later, was the year Giant and Bubba
01:05:57.272 --> 01:05:59.072
also had his final match.
01:05:59.772 --> 01:06:06.652
So they both started 1960, September of 1960, same day, same day debut.
01:06:06.652 --> 01:06:14.572
And Inoki and Bubba both are 38 career all the way to 98 and both had their
01:06:14.572 --> 01:06:21.032
final match that year this is a destiny or fate or you know what I'm saying,
01:06:21.652 --> 01:06:27.372
I mean I don't know what other words to use because they're so tied together
01:06:27.372 --> 01:06:33.032
I don't know if it's just chance if it's supposed to be that way but it's also
01:06:33.032 --> 01:06:35.692
interesting to think about So, Inoki,
01:06:36.112 --> 01:06:44.092
after Baba had passed away, because 20 or probably more years after Baba passed
01:06:44.092 --> 01:06:46.112
away, that's a whole different lifetime too.
01:06:46.352 --> 01:06:52.792
Right, because Inoki was never an active wrestler again, but he never left the public eyes.
01:06:53.012 --> 01:06:55.512
That's right, yeah. And he had influence in the public eyes.
01:06:55.512 --> 01:07:03.472
Yeah, he was part of the Pride, Inoki Bomae, the MMA, that he ran the public
01:07:03.472 --> 01:07:07.312
office one more time, that he was in movies, he was this, that.
01:07:07.592 --> 01:07:12.572
Right, Antonio Inoki kept being Antonio Inoki for the next two decades.
01:07:13.372 --> 01:07:20.032
And this January of 1999, Baba passed away at the age of 61.
01:07:20.032 --> 01:07:22.852
Yeah 98 was also the
01:07:22.852 --> 01:07:26.072
year that the old japan solo uh
01:07:26.072 --> 01:07:30.092
you know for the first time they held the tokyo dome show yeah
01:07:30.092 --> 01:07:33.472
because you see way back in 89 talk
01:07:33.472 --> 01:07:38.012
that when tokyo dome opened new japan was the first one to be holding the big
01:07:38.012 --> 01:07:41.692
huge spectacular at the tokyo dome right and baba was not interested in that
01:07:41.692 --> 01:07:46.692
baba said it's tokyo dome is too big for wrestling i mean people is watching
01:07:46.692 --> 01:07:52.732
wrestling from that far away no no no he'd much rather run five good gun shots instead.
01:07:54.510 --> 01:08:02.590
Somewhat, somehow, in 1998, May, John Papa decided to have his first All Japan Tokyo Dome show.
01:08:03.350 --> 01:08:08.590
Yeah. And I guess something, you know, must have changed because that was around
01:08:08.590 --> 01:08:13.010
the time he brought Hayabusa in, he brought Shinzaki in, he brought,
01:08:13.030 --> 01:08:15.090
you know, Yoshihiro Takayama in,
01:08:15.630 --> 01:08:21.610
and, you know, bringing all the Hase, Hiroshi Hase joined All Japan and all these things.
01:08:21.610 --> 01:08:28.250
And he really opened the door to a lot of new things at the time in his final year.
01:08:29.670 --> 01:08:33.890
But the barber passed away January of 1999.
01:08:34.370 --> 01:08:42.290
And that year, May 2nd, they held Tokyo Dome Show for Barber's Retirement Show without Barber.
01:08:42.430 --> 01:08:47.170
But they put Barber's ring boots in the middle of the ring with Mrs.
01:08:47.390 --> 01:08:51.310
Barber and the destroyer Dick Byer, Gene Koneski,
01:08:51.530 --> 01:08:54.390
his rival all these people came in he did the
01:08:54.390 --> 01:08:57.610
retirement ceremony at the
01:08:57.610 --> 01:09:01.170
Tokyo Dome the regular show of course but mainly
01:09:01.170 --> 01:09:07.770
it was Tokyo Dome show but the Baba's retirement ceremony at Tokyo and that
01:09:07.770 --> 01:09:13.330
was the time that Jumbo Tsura decided to retire all together so it's like Baba
01:09:13.330 --> 01:09:18.150
and Jumbo left all together end of an era wasn't it? Yeah, yeah.
01:09:18.190 --> 01:09:20.890
And Stan Hansen will be the title soon after, too.
01:09:21.950 --> 01:09:24.990
Yeah, 2000? Yeah, yeah, right, right, right.
01:09:25.270 --> 01:09:28.430
Because that was the time, right. Stan Hansen had been thinking about it for
01:09:28.430 --> 01:09:30.990
quite some time, you know.
01:09:32.290 --> 01:09:39.390
But not to interfere above a ceremony or any jumbo ceremony that would be there
01:09:39.390 --> 01:09:46.670
another year or so, and the year 2000 comes, that was the time Stan Hansen put his hat. Yeah.
01:09:47.510 --> 01:09:56.490
So that time, 22 years ago, it really felt like a boundary line or like a marker.
01:09:56.810 --> 01:10:01.470
End of 20th century and they all left before 21st century, huh?
01:10:01.710 --> 01:10:06.150
And it really felt like, it didn't feel like all Japan was dead,
01:10:06.310 --> 01:10:11.110
but it felt like that version of all Japan couldn't ever come back.
01:10:11.630 --> 01:10:14.850
Yeah, like a Star Wars movie or something. Something like that.
01:10:14.990 --> 01:10:19.210
Yeah, the end of the trilogy or something. Yeah, yeah, I think so too.
01:10:19.610 --> 01:10:28.870
And still had the same character after, but Bob has gone and Jumbo died the
01:10:28.870 --> 01:10:32.790
following year, May of 2000, at the age of 47. Yeah.
01:10:34.462 --> 01:10:40.862
Retiring is one thing, but being actually gone. Baba's gone. Jumbo's gone.
01:10:42.662 --> 01:10:47.642
And now that, fast forward about nine years, Misawa is gone,
01:10:47.802 --> 01:10:49.682
right? Yeah, that's right.
01:10:49.982 --> 01:10:54.742
When you think about the 50-year history of All Japan Pro Wrestling,
01:10:55.282 --> 01:10:59.282
they didn't have all that many real main events.
01:11:00.082 --> 01:11:01.742
Start Jumbo and Baba, right?
01:11:03.002 --> 01:11:10.942
Jumbo and Tenryu then Misawa Baba's gone, Jumbo's gone Misawa's gone Mrs.
01:11:11.102 --> 01:11:15.982
Baba's gone the senior referee Joe Higuchi gone,
01:11:17.362 --> 01:11:25.982
Russia Kimura yeah a lot of people he would kind of disappear early for a little
01:11:25.982 --> 01:11:32.162
bit too well documented but he actually had cancer and had a major surgery.
01:11:32.562 --> 01:11:34.602
It was a miracle that he made combat.
01:11:35.882 --> 01:11:40.262
It was never the same again, no? Never the same, but it was at the same time
01:11:40.262 --> 01:11:45.062
around this whole period where, like you're saying, who's around, who's left?
01:11:45.882 --> 01:11:51.082
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the Baba's people went to heaven.
01:11:52.602 --> 01:11:56.882
They were here, but left early kind of thing. See,
01:11:57.342 --> 01:12:00.662
Anthony Enochi, Tatsumi Fujinami, Ricky Choshu
01:12:00.662 --> 01:12:06.342
Akira Maeda everybody they retired but they're still around which is good some
01:12:06.342 --> 01:12:11.962
are still wrestling oh Fujinami Fujiwara yeah yeah for that man yeah but yeah
01:12:11.962 --> 01:12:17.542
Baba's people for some reason all these dudes that Dick Byer Destroyer Bruno
01:12:17.542 --> 01:12:20.602
San Martino you know yeah,
01:12:21.402 --> 01:12:27.842
so it's like wow they went up to heaven or something yeah.
01:12:30.319 --> 01:12:38.799
I want to ask from your perspective, when Bapa passed away, it wasn't just within
01:12:38.799 --> 01:12:39.819
the wrestling community.
01:12:40.479 --> 01:12:44.439
Bapa had a cultural influence in Japan.
01:12:44.439 --> 01:12:51.639
Regular television and news, I mean, real evening news and regular newspapers
01:12:51.639 --> 01:12:56.419
and the weekly magazines, you know, they all covered the story.
01:12:56.559 --> 01:12:59.919
They all covered the story like the hero from Showa era.
01:13:00.339 --> 01:13:06.419
And when black and white TV became color TV, Giant Baba was a star.
01:13:06.419 --> 01:13:09.379
And also he was in more TV commercial
01:13:09.379 --> 01:13:13.119
than let's say Gnocchi or more
01:13:13.119 --> 01:13:16.619
of a caliber of your Babe Ruth like baseball
01:13:16.619 --> 01:13:24.699
player type superstar household name yeah yeah and never had a bad story in
01:13:24.699 --> 01:13:32.079
you know in media like gossip magazines you know like you know some of the you
01:13:32.079 --> 01:13:33.299
know sometimes you know your.
01:13:34.739 --> 01:13:42.199
Hollywood celebrity or sports celebrity type have a real estate scam or this and that.
01:13:42.999 --> 01:13:45.819
Yeah, yeah. Those pop up, right?
01:13:46.519 --> 01:13:51.639
For Baba, he never once had dirty stories. Never once.
01:13:52.139 --> 01:13:56.339
No, he was always very dignified. Very dignified. Like king, almost.
01:13:57.219 --> 01:14:03.739
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, and distant. You know? Yeah. Yeah, it was hard to do an interview.
01:14:04.519 --> 01:14:13.859
But Mrs. Baba was so protective that he just ordered an interview application and all these things.
01:14:14.839 --> 01:14:21.339
Mrs. Baba was the one reading through everything. Every little bit, the letters and emails.
01:14:21.899 --> 01:14:30.619
Not so much then, but all the applications for interviews or the phone calls that she listened to.
01:14:30.619 --> 01:14:33.819
And she was the one keeping the
01:14:33.819 --> 01:14:37.699
gate and also it's
01:14:37.699 --> 01:14:40.859
so rare in wrestling business within wrestling
01:14:40.859 --> 01:14:44.599
business that he there were
01:14:44.599 --> 01:14:52.159
even one rumor about this you know mafia yakuza involvement in professional
01:14:52.159 --> 01:14:59.599
selling shows or all these things that everything was so kept under control
01:14:59.599 --> 01:15:02.139
with Baba Yeah, it was interesting.
01:15:03.009 --> 01:15:08.509
Yeah, it felt like you could bring your family to it and it wouldn't feel as dirty something.
01:15:09.589 --> 01:15:13.229
Not sleazy, but not as dangerous, maybe.
01:15:13.969 --> 01:15:20.189
Yeah, but Jan Baba was the first one to know about the stigma in wrestling business.
01:15:20.189 --> 01:15:23.089
You know it's not as high class as
01:15:23.089 --> 01:15:26.769
your like a major league baseball or
01:15:26.769 --> 01:15:30.009
you know take me out to bay you know ball games or
01:15:30.009 --> 01:15:33.709
you know go to wholesome family movie
01:15:33.709 --> 01:15:39.589
disney movie that's wrestling but the wrestling isn't all that bad was just
01:15:39.589 --> 01:15:44.109
about where he stood you know yeah i think i think the way presented it was
01:15:44.109 --> 01:15:52.169
in line with how in general Sam Muchnick's NWA wanted it in theory to be presented as a wholesome,
01:15:53.109 --> 01:15:57.309
family, what would become television from the 80s and on. Yeah.
01:15:58.429 --> 01:16:02.329
And also wrestling is something that's always around, always been around.
01:16:03.929 --> 01:16:07.909
Your grandpa and grandma will take you to your first wrestling match.
01:16:08.749 --> 01:16:16.309
Yeah, something like that. So the Baba inherited that legacy part of that wrestling business.
01:16:17.649 --> 01:16:23.209
And it was interesting that he was so NWA but he was the first one to leave
01:16:23.209 --> 01:16:26.069
this, you know, like NWA myth.
01:16:26.869 --> 01:16:30.509
So, yeah, so that, what do you call it?
01:16:30.689 --> 01:16:37.669
This, this, I mean, not believing it anymore, you know, and disillusioned, I guess. Yeah.
01:16:38.509 --> 01:16:43.669
Yeah. Disillusioned. Yeah. Yeah, then he created Triple Crown instead because
01:16:43.669 --> 01:16:47.809
this means a lot more to Japanese wrestling fans and wrestling community.
01:16:48.069 --> 01:16:51.809
These are the actual belts that's been used for decades and decades,
01:16:51.929 --> 01:16:54.229
physical belts, that we still have that.
01:16:54.589 --> 01:16:59.649
And that's as big or just as important as any World Heavyweight Championship
01:16:59.649 --> 01:17:01.829
in the world or in wrestling history.
01:17:02.069 --> 01:17:07.069
And actually, when you think about it, that's really true. and they were using
01:17:07.069 --> 01:17:11.989
these three different physical championship belts up until 5-6 years ago,
01:17:12.920 --> 01:17:16.760
Yeah, and now it's in one belt. Now it's right, right, one belt.
01:17:16.980 --> 01:17:20.240
But the name Triple Crown in All Japan Pro Wrestling.
01:17:20.580 --> 01:17:26.040
And I think Kento Miyahara today is a very good champion. Yeah.
01:17:26.560 --> 01:17:31.220
I think he'll be around for a long while. And I also think that a lot of the
01:17:31.220 --> 01:17:35.640
new roster has a lot of, I guess you could call them Baba-type guys.
01:17:36.940 --> 01:17:42.520
Like Shuji Ishikawa? Exactly, yeah. Suwama. Oh, yeah, they were more like Baba.
01:17:42.920 --> 01:17:46.300
Jumbo style yes i think also the
01:17:46.300 --> 01:17:49.100
the wrestle one the guys they inherited from that like
01:17:49.100 --> 01:17:52.260
koji doi and kumarashi oh sure
01:17:52.260 --> 01:17:55.440
and jake lee jake lee another yeah the
01:17:55.440 --> 01:17:58.340
tall guy yeah so they have
01:17:58.340 --> 01:18:01.860
they're definitely a heavyweight heavy
01:18:01.860 --> 01:18:06.880
promotion if you like modern heavyweight wrestling which is in a lot of ways
01:18:06.880 --> 01:18:14.820
what all japan has always tried none of them have fancy fancy multi-color costume
01:18:14.820 --> 01:18:20.260
like new japan guys do yeah maybe like kento miyohara maybe those guys the young guys do.
01:18:21.140 --> 01:18:24.480
Yeah but not not many not many you
01:18:24.480 --> 01:18:27.360
know they all have short trunks it's pretty
01:18:27.360 --> 01:18:30.740
yeah not conservative but you know nothing too
01:18:30.740 --> 01:18:34.140
flashy is fine yeah yeah and doing
01:18:34.140 --> 01:18:37.500
you know no frill believable professional
01:18:37.500 --> 01:18:44.040
wrestling today mixed in with some some comedy early opener kind of right oh
01:18:44.040 --> 01:18:50.560
oh yeah oh yeah it's because we talk about that a lot that the wrestling fans
01:18:50.560 --> 01:18:55.380
and audience will be sitting in the same spot the entire night. You know?
01:18:56.060 --> 01:19:00.740
You'll be seated in a certain seat and you'll be sitting there all day, I mean all night.
01:19:00.980 --> 01:19:05.380
The first match should be presented like the first match, the second match situation,
01:19:06.040 --> 01:19:09.860
and rookie situation, and the veteran situation, the small guy,
01:19:10.060 --> 01:19:15.900
you know, the fat guy situation, and somewhat comedy six-man tag team situation.
01:19:16.340 --> 01:19:21.940
Then the match progresses, and then the serious one comes out, you know?
01:19:22.520 --> 01:19:28.660
Yeah, so that's like what Terry Funk would say, enjoy the good night of wrestling.
01:19:31.097 --> 01:19:34.237
So that's still there. Variety, yeah, yeah. And it is still there, yeah.
01:19:34.357 --> 01:19:41.577
It's a variety, eclectic kind of mix of silly wrestling or maybe more American-style
01:19:41.577 --> 01:19:42.917
wrestling, especially with Tajiri.
01:19:42.997 --> 01:19:46.617
And wrestling is so interesting that when you don't have intermission,
01:19:46.817 --> 01:19:48.897
you never do this in movies.
01:19:49.137 --> 01:19:53.657
But in wrestling, you stand up in the middle of the card, in the middle of the
01:19:53.657 --> 01:19:59.077
match, go to a concession and buy yourself another cup of soda and hot dog and
01:19:59.077 --> 01:20:01.197
come back. in the middle of the match.
01:20:03.197 --> 01:20:06.177
Or maybe buy merchandise from the wrestlers.
01:20:06.937 --> 01:20:11.717
And come back in the middle of some match. With your new towel.
01:20:12.017 --> 01:20:19.397
Or during the match, you can talk to somebody sitting next to you, if it's not too loud.
01:20:20.677 --> 01:20:24.737
In the movie, you go, shh, shh, shh. You're not supposed to be talking.
01:20:25.077 --> 01:20:29.077
But in wrestling, you make friends. Yeah, it's social.
01:20:29.957 --> 01:20:33.837
Yeah, you'd be talking to total stranger who's sitting right next to him.
01:20:33.937 --> 01:20:37.077
He's like, hey, that must hurt. Something like that, right?
01:20:38.057 --> 01:20:43.117
Especially if it's good. If wrestling is really good, you always immediately
01:20:43.117 --> 01:20:45.057
want to have somebody to talk to about it.
01:20:45.397 --> 01:20:47.437
You want to express it. Yeah, they share it, right? Yeah, you're like,
01:20:47.537 --> 01:20:51.397
wow, did you see that? Yeah, do you understand that? Did I see the same thing you did?
01:20:51.817 --> 01:20:55.837
And I think that's really important. You're feeling what I'm feeling. Yeah.
01:20:56.177 --> 01:21:00.217
Ah, that is so important. That is so important. To see if it's matching,
01:21:00.217 --> 01:21:03.057
because sometimes it is, and sometimes it's totally not.
01:21:03.377 --> 01:21:06.977
Sometimes it's interesting what connects and what doesn't. You might miss something,
01:21:07.137 --> 01:21:09.397
or this guy right next to you might have missed.
01:21:09.737 --> 01:21:14.197
Sure, yeah, it depends on your perspective, or where you were sitting, or what you were doing.
01:21:15.937 --> 01:21:23.617
But if it's Misawa, if it's Kobashi, if it's Stan Henson, what you're seeing,
01:21:23.697 --> 01:21:26.557
you want to share it with somebody right away.
01:21:27.057 --> 01:21:31.737
Ah, wow, that's a good one. Especially those big moments, like you talked about
01:21:31.737 --> 01:21:33.417
earlier with Misawa beating Jumbo.
01:21:35.397 --> 01:21:40.157
Or staying hands and clothesline somebody. Yeah, knocking them out.
01:21:40.917 --> 01:21:47.937
Yeah, that's got to be it, you know? And, you know, I wanted to quickly talk about,
01:21:49.074 --> 01:21:53.274
When we listen to All Japan or when we see clips on YouTube or whatever,
01:21:53.514 --> 01:21:59.814
we often hear the Nippon TV sports theme or athletic theme, whatever it's called.
01:22:02.474 --> 01:22:06.354
And I mean, of course, that's associated with Baba and All Japan.
01:22:06.594 --> 01:22:11.714
But I think people should also realize that a lot of people in Japan know that
01:22:11.714 --> 01:22:16.734
tune just from, you know, it's kind of the sports day theme song,
01:22:16.854 --> 01:22:19.854
you know, at school. Yeah, Channel 4. Channel 4 song.
01:22:20.534 --> 01:22:26.014
The Channel 4 song, yeah. Yeah, marathon or Olympic or ski jump and stuff like that, right?
01:22:26.174 --> 01:22:30.014
Yeah, you don't hear it in just wrestling, although we hear it a lot with All Japan.
01:22:30.414 --> 01:22:37.054
But it's like a jingle that you hear in lots and lots of sports TV. Yeah, right.
01:22:37.694 --> 01:22:42.114
Because it's a baseball team, Giants team too. I mean, not the team,
01:22:42.214 --> 01:22:44.434
but the Channel 4 when that come out.
01:22:45.094 --> 01:22:49.974
Which is also, it's kind of funny because Giant Baba was one of the giants and
01:22:49.974 --> 01:22:51.494
went on to represent both.
01:22:51.774 --> 01:22:57.374
Right, right. So I think that has a deeper connection with him than other objects
01:22:57.374 --> 01:23:03.334
that it kind of is background music for all throughout different aspects of life.
01:23:03.854 --> 01:23:08.274
Now it's been 23 years since his passing, his Giant Baba's passing.
01:23:08.754 --> 01:23:17.394
23 years, yeah. And I think today's wrestling fans haven't seen his,
01:23:17.534 --> 01:23:23.714
you know, or obviously haven't seen, you know, his important matches or know
01:23:23.714 --> 01:23:28.634
the name but never really seen his matches even on YouTube, you know.
01:23:28.734 --> 01:23:35.034
So I think it's our role at least to talk about Giant Baba like this and pass
01:23:35.034 --> 01:23:39.694
his legacy down as an understanding of it.
01:23:40.674 --> 01:23:42.654
It wasn't just him as a wrestler.
01:23:44.222 --> 01:23:52.962
Right, the promoter, and that really made one of the people who made wrestling what it is today.
01:23:53.682 --> 01:23:58.182
Shaped it. Yeah. He really did. Oh, very influential. Not just Ricky Dozan,
01:23:58.442 --> 01:24:05.782
but of course, both Giant Baba and Anthony Inoki, but in conservative way and believable way,
01:24:06.542 --> 01:24:10.962
Giant Baba did that for wrestling business.
01:24:10.962 --> 01:24:15.982
Away from Anthony Inoki, but Anthony Inoki did that for Anthony Inoki most of the time, right?
01:24:16.282 --> 01:24:21.542
But I think Giant Barber was there that the All Japan, Pro Wrestling,
01:24:22.082 --> 01:24:24.782
Giant Barber, all in one.
01:24:25.022 --> 01:24:27.942
It was the same, you know, like as it is.
01:24:28.482 --> 01:24:33.542
And he stepped down from main event position early enough, you know, but never retired.
01:24:34.182 --> 01:24:38.782
Yeah, so that was a different approach. And it's still an approach,
01:24:38.782 --> 01:24:42.442
which a lot of different promotions modeled themselves after,
01:24:43.242 --> 01:24:49.062
it's still looked at, still kind of the norm. It's a standard culture.
01:24:51.282 --> 01:24:59.122
Yeah. So I guess that's it for Giant Baba series.
01:24:59.762 --> 01:25:04.802
And we have how many episodes? We have four episodes, and today's episode covers
01:25:04.802 --> 01:25:07.822
23 years past Baba's past.
01:25:07.822 --> 01:25:11.382
So it shows how influential he is yes
01:25:11.382 --> 01:25:15.362
alright we'll do a legacy series with
01:25:15.362 --> 01:25:18.522
someone else but I think soon or
01:25:18.522 --> 01:25:21.282
next episode we have to talk about women's wrestling in
01:25:21.282 --> 01:25:24.582
Japan now now that women's wrestling especially stardom
01:25:24.582 --> 01:25:28.002
is so popular worldwide right now but
01:25:28.002 --> 01:25:31.002
when you talk about women's wrestling yeah WWE
01:25:31.002 --> 01:25:34.402
has a women's division that are pretty big
01:25:34.402 --> 01:25:37.622
and every company in America have women's divisions
01:25:37.622 --> 01:25:40.782
and joshi pro wrestling women's wrestling
01:25:40.782 --> 01:25:44.062
in japan also almost like
01:25:44.062 --> 01:25:47.702
another culture you know and how
01:25:47.702 --> 01:25:54.542
joshi how this japanese women's pro wrestling has developed and evolved in its
01:25:54.542 --> 01:25:57.902
history and style and type of
01:25:57.902 --> 01:26:05.042
style they produced we yeah we should cover this yeah like slowly but uh.
01:26:06.368 --> 01:26:09.828
In length yeah and we can use events
01:26:09.828 --> 01:26:15.128
like dream slam as talking points too because there's lots to talk about from
01:26:15.128 --> 01:26:21.548
that era that time and and like you said tokyo dome at tokyo dome yeah i think
01:26:21.548 --> 01:26:26.688
that's one of the most famous but it's also yeah but that was a surface on on
01:26:26.688 --> 01:26:29.468
joshi history joshi history.
01:26:29.648 --> 01:26:34.488
Oh, it goes all the way back to like 1947, 1951, seriously.
01:26:35.228 --> 01:26:38.768
And Mildred Bark planted the
01:26:38.768 --> 01:26:44.348
seed in women's wrestling because Ricky Dozen resented women's wrestling.
01:26:45.808 --> 01:26:49.288
Women's matches were never part of men's show.
01:26:49.808 --> 01:26:54.528
Much like Fabulous Moodle had one match in men's show, right?
01:26:56.368 --> 01:27:00.548
Therefore, Therefore, you never needed that many women's wrestlers, you know.
01:27:01.148 --> 01:27:08.808
But women's wrestling in Japan, joshi wrestling in Japan, always have been separated
01:27:08.808 --> 01:27:10.608
from men's wrestling group.
01:27:10.728 --> 01:27:16.308
They always had women's group, women's wrestlers, and women's show separate
01:27:16.308 --> 01:27:18.228
from men's wrestling and had
01:27:18.228 --> 01:27:23.868
a completely different kind of evolution and star system and its history.
01:27:24.228 --> 01:27:30.508
It's a different saga, I think. And yeah, we could talk about it forever, though, actually.
01:27:31.148 --> 01:27:37.988
Yeah, and it's also, I mean, it's almost viewed as not just as a genre of wrestling,
01:27:38.168 --> 01:27:43.228
but as a genre of entertainment itself, especially with the combination of music.
01:27:44.088 --> 01:27:50.528
Yeah, Maha Fumiyake to Beauty Pears, yeah, before Crash Girls and all, right?
01:27:51.348 --> 01:27:57.108
Yeah, yeah. Idol culture is a big part of it. Sure, and Japanese kawaii pop
01:27:57.108 --> 01:28:01.308
idols, yeah, that had that, yeah, of course. We didn't get that on the men's side.
01:28:01.488 --> 01:28:06.968
I mean, we had the Terry Funk album and everything, but I don't think it was quite the same, so...
01:28:07.629 --> 01:28:10.609
Yeah, so we'll start talking about that next time.
01:28:11.149 --> 01:28:17.509
Of course. Okay. I hope that still we can take questions on Baba and we'll answer
01:28:17.509 --> 01:28:22.109
that next time, but I think this was our final episode of Giant Baba History.
01:28:22.369 --> 01:28:27.209
Yeah, if there's anything that we missed out on or didn't cover or you had questions about.
01:28:27.449 --> 01:28:31.029
Yeah, the thing people wanted to ask questions, we'll still be answering.
01:28:31.249 --> 01:28:35.949
Because there is a lot more out there, and especially after Baba passed away
01:28:35.949 --> 01:28:39.309
and the beginning of Pro Wrestling Noah, I mean that's an entire.
01:28:40.189 --> 01:28:45.709
Story you can write a book about it and there's a book written about it but
01:28:45.709 --> 01:28:50.249
a lot of the same characters so just keep following along and listening we'll
01:28:50.249 --> 01:28:54.389
get there eventually but how can people reach you Umi on social media?
01:28:54.629 --> 01:29:04.189
On Twitter F-U-M-I-H-I-K-O-D-A-Y-O Fumihiko Dio on Twitter or Fumisairo on Twitter Facebook.
01:29:04.569 --> 01:29:09.529
Actually, I'm on Instagram but I don't post a lot of things on there.
01:29:10.229 --> 01:29:12.129
Usually, I'm on Facebook a lot.
01:29:13.189 --> 01:29:19.109
So, send me a request to be friends with notes. And I'm at JustinMNipper,
01:29:19.229 --> 01:29:20.749
K-N-I-P-P-E-R on Twitter.
01:29:21.409 --> 01:29:25.389
That's it for the Giant Baba Series, Part 4. That's it. So, we'll come at you
01:29:25.389 --> 01:29:30.069
next week with lots of Joshi Progues history.
01:29:30.329 --> 01:29:33.009
New series, that's right. So, Fumi, take it away for now.
01:29:34.069 --> 01:29:35.529
So long from Tokyo.
01:29:38.480 --> 01:30:35.849
Music.