Ep.70 Why You Should Be Taking More Risks For Love with Estée Lalonde

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I said, if you don't propose to me, you can
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say goodbye to me and you can say goodbye to
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the dog because I am done.
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Estee LaLonde, it all started when she was just 19
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and decided to move halfway across the world for love.
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She's spoken so openly about the highs and lows of
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relationships and you moved across the world. That must've been terrifying.
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It was the easiest decision I've ever made.
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When that broke down, what was that experience like?
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It was either stick it out here and make a
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go of this or regret it for the rest of
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your life. It changed my life. I'm not gonna waste
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any more of my time here. I'm either gonna marry
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this man and we're gonna do this thing or I'm
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gonna start trying to get pregnant on my own. I
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couldn't believe that he wasn't desperate to lock it down.
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So when was the cutoff? In today's episode of Working Hard,
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Hardly Working, I am so excited to be chatting with
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Estée Lalonde. She is one of the OG beauty bloggers
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and now she is founder of bath and body brand
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Mirror Water, which I love. The packaging is beautiful. You
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have to go and have a look at it. She's
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now got over 2 million followers, but it all started
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when she was just 19 and decided to move halfway
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across the world for love. We go through the story
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today and it is a crazy story. She's spoken so
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openly about her mental health and the highs and lows
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of relationships and now building a brand and I cannot
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wait for you to hear this just like really nice
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girly chat like it felt like a very needed heart-to-heart
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about all things love relationships. Both of us have recently
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got engaged so we had a lot to talk about
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in terms of that. and the conversations before that and
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it's just been such a wonderful chat we get very
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deep so do be prepared if you do like this
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episode please make sure to like subscribe review it really
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really helps us I do hope you really enjoy this
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episode I personally really enjoyed recording it Thank you so
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much for joining me.
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Thank you for having me. This is so exciting. I'm
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on the couch. She's here.
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It's not a Red Table Talk movie. Thank God it's not.
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No, I'm not ready for that.
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Okay, well, we can actually do your prep today for
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Red Table Talk.
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That would be perfect.
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I want to start at the very beginning, really. I
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like to get a little bit of background on guests
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so that we can kind of see the context of you.
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I'd like to talk a little bit about growing up.
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in Canada. Could you paint me a little picture of
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what your life was like there?
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Yes. So from under the age of, say, 10, it
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was me, my mom, my brother. We lived in this
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little teeny tiny house. And sometimes when I go home,
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I drive past it. It felt so big as a kid.
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And now when I look at it, I'm like, gosh,
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it was just so small. And it was pink. It
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And it was really... Why am I getting emotional already?
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Oh my God.
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That was good.
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Great content. Thank you, Esther.
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It was just such a little sanctuary for us. You know,
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I love my mom and my brother so much. We're
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super close. And I have amazing memories of that time.
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And it was a small suburb. There was nothing going on.
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We played outside on scooters. And I loved chalk and
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like drawing on the drive. It was this very simple...
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upbringing you know and was it just you your mom
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and your brother yeah my dad exists but it was
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kind of my parents got divorced when I was quite
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young I was like two years old I think my
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brother like was one so really my mom and my
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brother were like my core and my grandparents were a
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huge part of my life my grandparents live like super
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close and were there.
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For my entire life like are you still really close
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yeah Even on the other side of the world?
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Yeah. Even closer, I think. Really? Because I just miss
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them so much, like truly. It's so hard not to
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be around your family. And it's something that when I
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was in my early 20s, I'm getting emotional already, but whatever, YOLO.
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I cry all the time. It's something in my early
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twenties that I was like, I'm free. I'm doing my thing.
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This is the life I've always wanted to live. And
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it felt like it was never going to end. But
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now I'm in my mid thirties and I just got
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engaged and I'm thinking about having a family and like
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my mom's not here and my brother's not here and
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he's married and he's going to have a family and
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I'm not there for all those little micro joys throughout
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the week. And I'm really starting to miss my family
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more than I have for years.
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I want to first ask at that time, like when
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you were younger in Canada, what were your career aspirations?
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I had no idea what I wanted to do or
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what I wanted to be. And that was a huge
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struggle for me because all my friends were like, I
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want to be this and I want to be that.
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And I just never had that thing that I knew
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I wanted to be. I knew I wanted to have
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my own thing. I never wanted to work for someone else,
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even though I did for so long. I had so
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many retail jobs and everything, but I always wanted to
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do my own thing. But I felt like I wasn't
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good at anything. It wasn't like I was really good at,
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I don't know, skateboarding. I don't know where that came from.
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And then I wanted to do that, but I wasn't
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really good at anything. That's how I felt. And I
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wasn't super academic, although I did get good grades. I just,
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nothing was like sticking to me. And that was really frustrating.
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But When I was about, I don't know, 14, we
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went to New York from where I grew up. That
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was huge. That was the first time I'd ever really
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been out of my suburb. And I remember thinking, I
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don't know what I need to do to be walking
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down these streets, but that's what I want to do.
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And that was a big trip for me. I remember thinking,
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this is super cool. I want to be able to
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fit in in a place like New York. But what's
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interesting is I went to Toronto for university, which is
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like considered a big city for someone who grew up
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where I did. And I was terrified. It did not
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work out for me. I ran home very, very quickly
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and I felt super overwhelmed and I was really, really scared.
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And that's when I started to think, okay, I thought
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I wanted to live in a big city and like
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do this thing. I can't hack it here. And I
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went back to my small town, my safety realm, and
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I was really confused. I had no clue what I
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wanted to do. And I kind of remember thinking, well,
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I guess I'm going to have to Settle for this.
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And you've said publicly before that you think you've been
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depressed from the age of six. Could you talk to
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me a little bit about that and how that kind
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of shaped your childhood?
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Yeah. I talked to so many people who have a
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similar experience about this, like in my personal life. Some
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people don't know what I'm talking about. But my mom
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has depression. My grandma has it. Her mother had it.
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It's something that really runs in my family. And it's
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something that was always around me. I was never scared
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of it. In fact, this is kind of crazy and weird,
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but I remember thinking, not I hope I get it,
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but I remember thinking it was like part of like
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becoming a woman.
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Right. Because it was what you saw as the grownup
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woman in your life.
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Yeah. And I remember thinking like, I don't know, like,
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I wonder if that's going to happen to me, but
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I was never scared of it. But I definitely like
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saw my mom being low, but she was always managed
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to kind of like take care of my brother and
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I and go to work. And she was always very presentable,
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but then sometimes she would be like really down on
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the weekends and stuff like that. But looking back, I
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was definitely depressed as a kid. No kid thinks about
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stuff the way I feel like I did. I've always
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kind of been an I don't even consider myself an overthinker.
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I think I'm a deep thinker, not about like the.
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Meaning of life.
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And I'm not like a philosopher, but I always like
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feel things really deeply and try to understand the way
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I'm feeling. I think it started to really become clear
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when I was making friends and the girls just seemed
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so happy-go-lucky. I remember like thinking to why don't I
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feel like that? Just the things that they liked and
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cared about, like S Club 7 and like all these things,
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like it wasn't even like on my radar. I was
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trying to think like, what's my favorite book? And what
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does that say about me? And I was low. I
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was definitely low. And obviously my parents being divorced didn't
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help because I was always kind of a go between
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my mom and my dad. And that definitely didn't help.
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But I think it's something that I was born with. Like,
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I don't think my circumstances would have changed my depression
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very much.
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And when you say that you'd seen that in your
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mom and grandma.
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Yeah.
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I just applied the name to her.
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Mary. In Mary.
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How did that, like, manifest? Like, what were you seeing?
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I remember one particular time when my mom said, if
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I'm ever getting snappy, tell me I need to take
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one of my happy pills. I remember her saying that.
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To me once.
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I remember thinking, what, what is she even talking about?
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Yeah. I want some of those.
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Yeah. Like I didn't get it. I didn't. And, and
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that was one time I had that conversation with her
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and that was never brought up again. And she kind
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of got it under control. I think my mom just tired, stressed,
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but that's like normal stuff. I don't know. I could
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just like sense it with a vibe, you know, if
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someone's low, you can tell. But she was always putting
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on a brave face.
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Obviously, childhood is so formative in who you are today.
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I think it's really interesting that you say having seen
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like that was what you saw as adulthood. That was
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what you saw as women once they were no longer children.
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And I think that's so interesting. Do you ever think
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that that wouldn't have happened? Like was that when you
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were growing up, did you ever think? well, that's not
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going to be me? No, no.
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I knew it was going to be me because I
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already started to feel it. I never felt responsible for
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my mom in any way. Like my mother was my
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mother and she was in control. Like, let me just
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be clear about that. I never felt like I needed
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to make her happier or I never felt like I
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needed to do anything. Like she was definitely the one
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taking care of us. But I do remember being very
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conscious of how she felt all the time. And I
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wanted her to feel good. So I wasn't misbehaving very much.
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I mean, she's probably going to say otherwise. She's like, wrong.
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She's probably like, no.
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But....
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I remember thinking like, mom's really stressed right now. She's
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calling her bank and making sure she's got enough money
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for this and that. And I remember thinking like, I'm
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not going to ask for that thing that I want,
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you know?
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And do you think that's made you hyper aware of
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other people's feelings?
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I'm super hypersensitive to people's vibe. Too much. Like sometimes
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even my fiance will say something and I'll be like,
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are you upset with me right now?
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He's like, no.
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But like, that's like in me. Right. Yeah.
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And you obviously moved. Across the world to London. Why
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did you do that?
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Yeah, it's a great question. Just to put it straight.
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It feels like yesterday, but I kind of described that
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time when I just came back from Toronto and I
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was like, I can't hack this and I don't know
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what I'm doing. And actually I went to a local
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community college to... take an interior design course. Because I
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was like, maybe my calling is interior design. I quite
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like fabric.
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Well, I saw your renovation of your first flat and
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I would personally agree.
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Well, that's what I kind of was thinking. And that
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also was just like, it was fine, but it wasn't
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like the interior design course of my dreams. It was
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like a community college. Anyway, at that time, then I
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met my ex-boyfriend now online. He lived in London and
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Long story short, I ended up moving to London to
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be with him.
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And had you met him before this point?
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Before I moved, yes. But we had an online distance
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relationship for about nine months.
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So how had you seen each other in person, considering
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you were.
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Halfway across the world? He flew to Toronto and we met.
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And then we did an amazing road trip across America.
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And that trip lasted for about two months. And then
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two weeks after that road trip ended, I moved to London.
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00:12:22.629 --> 00:12:24.610
And what were your family thinking at this time?
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My brother... always thinks I'm nuts.
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Sure.
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My mom was really into it. She was like, follow
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your heart. But they had bets of how long I
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would last.
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Really? Yeah.
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It was the easiest decision I've ever made. We were
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so in love. I just turned 19. Yeah.
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I was so stupid.
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I had no idea what I was doing. It was beautiful.
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It was amazing. It was such a whirlwind. It was
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the opportunity I was always looking for to like have
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a reason to go do something. And I had someone
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in London who loved me and wanted to support me.
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And also my mom and my brother saying like, you're
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never going to last, whatever. That was kind of like
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fuel for me because I've got this streak in me
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that's like, you're telling me I can't do it? Okay, well,
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00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:11.980
watch me. There's something in my being that's kind of
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like that. But then when I did move, it was
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very difficult. It was way harder than making the decision
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to move. I was really depressed when I moved to London,
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like next level. I've never been that depressed in my
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entire life. And if it wasn't for my mom saying like,
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just spend one more day in London, just one more day,
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call me in the afternoon, see if you still feel
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the same. Because I was always trying to fly home,
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even though I was really in love with the person.
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It was just like the homesickness was so, and being
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out of my comfort zone.
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And you must have, I mean, I assume you knew
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no one other than him. How was that in terms
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of building your own life? Because it's one thing moving
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across the world and trying to make friends, but also
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when you're part of a unit, then you... their friends
295
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kind of become your friends and having your own identity
296
00:13:55.350 --> 00:13:58.210
is quite, I mean, it's hard to find friends outside
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of that.
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Well, I didn't. So that was, you know, maybe part
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00:14:02.750 --> 00:14:07.250
of the problem was we were each other's world. Anyways,
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00:14:07.330 --> 00:14:09.950
eventually I did start to forge my own path with
301
00:14:09.990 --> 00:14:12.250
like creating a blog and a YouTube channel and all
302
00:14:12.269 --> 00:14:14.759
of those things. And I started to have my own life.
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00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:18.240
And that was the beginning of becoming myself. But for
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00:14:18.269 --> 00:14:20.580
a very long time, I was in a little love bubble,
305
00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:23.100
which was beautiful. And I look back on that time
306
00:14:23.159 --> 00:14:26.600
really fondly, but that's not really sustainable, especially as a woman.
307
00:14:26.659 --> 00:14:29.000
Like you need to, you know, spread your wings.
308
00:14:29.419 --> 00:14:31.590
No, I completely agree. But it's so interesting because I'm
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00:14:31.620 --> 00:14:34.350
a very, I am an overthinker and I am the
310
00:14:34.370 --> 00:14:36.070
type of person who wants a plan for everything. So
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00:14:36.090 --> 00:14:38.610
I'm not going to do something unless I have like a, well,
312
00:14:38.629 --> 00:14:40.769
this is what happens if this route goes, like if
313
00:14:40.789 --> 00:14:42.330
we go down this route, this is what happens here.
314
00:14:42.370 --> 00:14:44.700
This is the backup plan. Like that's how I do things.
315
00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:48.590
And listening to you say this, talking about the time
316
00:14:48.629 --> 00:14:50.970
that you were 19 and all of this, I'm like,
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00:14:50.990 --> 00:14:52.769
that's exactly what people should be doing at 19. And
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00:14:53.029 --> 00:14:55.129
I understand that it's like, you know, not everyone can
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00:14:55.169 --> 00:14:57.850
do that, but to be like, you had the opportunity
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00:14:58.690 --> 00:15:00.250
and I actually listened to you saying it. And it's
321
00:15:00.269 --> 00:15:02.370
so funny because it's so different from like what my
322
00:15:02.389 --> 00:15:05.120
thought process would be. And I'm also like, there was
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00:15:05.169 --> 00:15:06.860
nothing wrong with doing that. And I'm sure that added
324
00:15:06.899 --> 00:15:08.220
to your life so much.
325
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It changed my life. It is the reason I am
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00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:15.779
who I am today. But I do remember thinking like, well,
327
00:15:16.019 --> 00:15:18.850
What are, what's my other option? Move back home and
328
00:15:18.950 --> 00:15:20.389
be miserable for the rest of my, and I really
329
00:15:20.529 --> 00:15:22.769
saw it that way. It was either stick it out
330
00:15:22.830 --> 00:15:26.309
here and make a go of this or move back
331
00:15:26.350 --> 00:15:27.649
home and regret it for the rest of your life.
332
00:15:28.909 --> 00:15:32.889
I was not prepared to do that. Living in my
333
00:15:32.950 --> 00:15:35.769
hometown is something that I have just never wanted to do.
334
00:15:35.870 --> 00:15:38.429
My brother lives there with his wife. They're so happy.
335
00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:40.179
And sometimes I look at them and I think, God,
336
00:15:40.539 --> 00:15:43.129
that looks nice, but it's not for me. It's not
337
00:15:43.149 --> 00:15:45.490
for me, but they're so happy. I'm just so glad
338
00:15:45.529 --> 00:15:47.149
I did it. But again, it's all because of my
339
00:15:47.169 --> 00:15:48.429
mom pushing me.
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I don't think we talk about enough how much of
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a privilege it is to have people who support you
342
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taking risks. And I do think that like a lot
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of what we do, especially with like online culture now
344
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is like mitigating that type of risk because we don't
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00:15:59.899 --> 00:16:02.659
want to have made a stupid decision and actually making
346
00:16:02.700 --> 00:16:05.559
stupid decisions and making decisions that aren't actually entirely driven
347
00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:08.000
by your head and your mind. You can only do
348
00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:08.960
that really when you're young.
349
00:16:09.340 --> 00:16:14.519
You're right. Like, I don't make those kinds of decisions now.
350
00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:19.850
I think about everything. I have so much responsibility now.
351
00:16:20.149 --> 00:16:24.490
I can't just move. I can't just go do something
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00:16:24.509 --> 00:16:26.490
because I feel like it. So I'm glad I did
353
00:16:26.549 --> 00:16:28.929
it then, but I don't think I could necessarily do
354
00:16:28.970 --> 00:16:29.210
it now.
355
00:16:29.649 --> 00:16:32.230
So you obviously talk about having moved to London and
356
00:16:32.750 --> 00:16:37.620
then almost finding yourself kind of in a job that
357
00:16:37.669 --> 00:16:41.720
really didn't exist before, which is obviously beauty blogging. How
358
00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:43.500
did that happen?
359
00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:47.610
I was so lonely in London, as I said, and
360
00:16:47.620 --> 00:16:51.730
I had no one here except my boyfriend at the time.
361
00:16:53.450 --> 00:16:57.850
And I was working a part-time job at Triumph, which
362
00:16:57.970 --> 00:17:00.090
is a lingerie, well, you can call it lingerie, it's
363
00:17:00.110 --> 00:17:04.680
like underwear. And I was working there, and I wasn't
364
00:17:04.700 --> 00:17:07.750
really becoming friends with anyone at work, and I just
365
00:17:07.769 --> 00:17:09.869
started thinking, how am I going to make friends? I
366
00:17:09.910 --> 00:17:11.569
don't know. I'm so depressed. Like, what am I going
367
00:17:11.589 --> 00:17:13.690
to do? And I was like, I need to do
368
00:17:13.730 --> 00:17:17.309
something to cheer myself up. So I Googled best Mac
369
00:17:17.349 --> 00:17:19.990
lipsticks because I was like, I need a lipstick. I'm 19.
370
00:17:19.970 --> 00:17:23.390
I don't even own a lipstick. It's crazy. And instead
371
00:17:23.450 --> 00:17:26.619
of finding the lipstick, I found all of these amazing blogs.
372
00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:30.420
And that was really revolutionary at the time. I'd never
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00:17:30.500 --> 00:17:33.180
seen this. Obviously, I've seen Tumblr and stuff like that.
374
00:17:33.700 --> 00:17:38.710
but these were like blogs designed by the girlies. Every
375
00:17:38.789 --> 00:17:41.490
blog had its own vibe. Every blog had its own design.
376
00:17:41.509 --> 00:17:46.369
Every blog was talking about different things. I was obsessed
377
00:17:46.549 --> 00:17:48.509
and I didn't even go get a lipstick that day.
378
00:17:48.529 --> 00:17:51.309
I was reading the blogs and I remember thinking, I
379
00:17:51.329 --> 00:17:53.069
need to start a blog. I wish I could. I
380
00:17:53.470 --> 00:17:55.490
wonder if I could. No, I can't. I could never
381
00:17:55.549 --> 00:17:59.539
do that. And that's my issue sometimes is like, Ooh,
382
00:17:59.660 --> 00:18:00.980
I wonder if I could do that. No, I can't.
383
00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:03.180
That was my issue at the time. I did eventually
384
00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:06.569
start a blog and I did it mostly because I
385
00:18:06.609 --> 00:18:09.170
wanted to make friends. I wanted to make friends in
386
00:18:09.210 --> 00:18:11.470
the UK and all of the UK girls were like,
387
00:18:11.750 --> 00:18:13.670
I just loved seeing what they were wearing and what
388
00:18:13.710 --> 00:18:16.529
they were doing and who they were friends with. And
389
00:18:16.549 --> 00:18:20.289
I became so obsessed with it. And I started a
390
00:18:20.289 --> 00:18:24.029
blog and eventually I got invited to like blogger meet
391
00:18:24.069 --> 00:18:28.130
and greets. And then it was basically like a snowball.
392
00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:31.480
And so how did it start to take off? Because
393
00:18:31.539 --> 00:18:33.160
I mean, you at the time were working in something
394
00:18:33.180 --> 00:18:35.819
very different. I don't also think there was much formal
395
00:18:35.859 --> 00:18:38.400
understanding of things like SEO and like how you're coming
396
00:18:38.460 --> 00:18:40.220
up high on like Google and all of those things
397
00:18:40.259 --> 00:18:43.200
at the time. But that would have been like intrinsically
398
00:18:43.220 --> 00:18:45.279
a part of it in terms of, you know, people
399
00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:49.789
discovering you and all of that. Was it before Instagram
400
00:18:49.829 --> 00:18:50.740
was in use for it?
401
00:18:51.369 --> 00:18:53.339
I think so. Or around that time.
402
00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:56.200
And so how were people discovering you?
403
00:18:56.700 --> 00:19:00.960
Literally through who this blogger was following. You'd see who
404
00:19:00.980 --> 00:19:05.420
they were following, who was commenting under the post. That's
405
00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:10.250
how you discovered people. It's wild looking back on it now.
406
00:19:10.609 --> 00:19:12.950
But there was still the thought process of, oh my God,
407
00:19:12.970 --> 00:19:16.769
this person's following me. That's good. You know, you felt that.
408
00:19:17.130 --> 00:19:19.289
And there was also like, ooh, I should comment on
409
00:19:19.329 --> 00:19:22.950
this person's post so they know I exist. But it
410
00:19:23.029 --> 00:19:25.230
wasn't like it is sort of like today. Yeah. There
411
00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:29.680
were no collaborations of sorts at that early, early stage.
412
00:19:29.980 --> 00:19:32.680
And then sometimes bloggers would mention another blogger in a
413
00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:36.660
blog post. You know, that was crazy. That was huge.
414
00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:40.410
But I remember like my blog getting something like 3
415
00:19:40.410 --> 00:19:42.509
million views in a month and stuff like that.
416
00:19:42.609 --> 00:19:43.910
That is crazy.
417
00:19:44.190 --> 00:19:46.410
This was a very different time. My current, I don't
418
00:19:46.450 --> 00:19:49.170
have a blog now really, but that would never happen now. Right.
419
00:19:49.450 --> 00:19:52.839
But back. then that was like something that was happening regularly.
420
00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:55.000
Because it was how people using the internet.
421
00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:56.079
Yeah. Yeah.
422
00:19:56.420 --> 00:19:57.299
And what were they about?
423
00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:02.589
Just beauty? Beauty mostly. I went and bought like a
424
00:20:02.630 --> 00:20:05.309
lipstick and I would take a picture. Like I didn't
425
00:20:05.329 --> 00:20:06.210
know how to take pictures.
426
00:20:06.269 --> 00:20:06.390
Right.
427
00:20:07.089 --> 00:20:08.990
My boyfriend at the time let me use his camera
428
00:20:09.019 --> 00:20:10.700
and I would like take a picture of the outer
429
00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:12.619
box and I would take a picture with the lipstick
430
00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:14.700
beside the box. And then I would open the lipstick
431
00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:16.180
and take a picture of that. Then I would do
432
00:20:16.220 --> 00:20:17.839
a swatch and then I would put it on my
433
00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:20.539
lips and take a selfie. And like, you know, there
434
00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:23.109
was like a procedure that I had to like photograph
435
00:20:23.140 --> 00:20:25.369
each product. And yeah, I would do a whole blog
436
00:20:25.390 --> 00:20:27.670
post on one lipstick and like really delve deep into it.
437
00:20:27.690 --> 00:20:32.109
It's a creamy formulation that sits on the lips well.
438
00:20:32.150 --> 00:20:35.769
Like literally now it's like, who cares? But at the time...
439
00:20:36.329 --> 00:20:39.009
the thing to do was to really like dissect a product.
440
00:20:39.130 --> 00:20:42.490
It's so interesting because I look at like TikTokers now
441
00:20:42.970 --> 00:20:46.089
and I look at how much they can generate in
442
00:20:46.130 --> 00:20:47.910
terms of content and I look at it in terms
443
00:20:47.970 --> 00:20:51.299
of what I'm doing and I'm like fucking hell like
444
00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:54.519
they are insane like you are amazing like how are
445
00:20:54.539 --> 00:20:56.579
you getting that much out at the beginning of every
446
00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:00.359
social platform that was getting this kind of magnifying factor
447
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:03.720
and when you have that kind of like enthusiasm for
448
00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:08.299
it and like I'm like, bitch, I do not have
449
00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:09.200
that energy now.
450
00:21:09.380 --> 00:21:12.099
I wish. I say the exact same thing. Like the
451
00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:15.299
TikTokers now, it doesn't feel difficult to them to churn
452
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:18.470
out content. And I say the same thing. I was
453
00:21:18.509 --> 00:21:20.509
doing a vlog every single day. It felt like nothing
454
00:21:20.569 --> 00:21:22.529
to me. It felt like drinking water. It was like
455
00:21:22.549 --> 00:21:23.589
just something I did.
456
00:21:23.730 --> 00:21:27.150
And so how did you start making money at this stage?
457
00:21:27.450 --> 00:21:30.019
I mean, you're saying you were getting 3 million hits
458
00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:32.759
a month and I can see why you would be
459
00:21:32.779 --> 00:21:35.039
making money, but it obviously was a very different time.
460
00:21:35.339 --> 00:21:38.099
Can you talk me through the initiation of brand deals
461
00:21:38.140 --> 00:21:38.619
and all of that.
462
00:21:38.779 --> 00:21:41.180
I was getting 3 million views a month for like
463
00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:43.599
years before I made any money. I didn't know what
464
00:21:43.619 --> 00:21:46.119
I was doing. Nobody knew what they were doing. I
465
00:21:46.180 --> 00:21:48.599
remember my friend saying, you should get some ads on
466
00:21:48.619 --> 00:21:51.859
your blog and me not even understanding what she meant
467
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:54.380
by those words. You know, there were companies that were
468
00:21:54.420 --> 00:21:56.900
cropping up that were putting ads on people's websites. And
469
00:21:57.029 --> 00:21:59.029
finally I did it. But I remember thinking this is
470
00:21:59.049 --> 00:22:01.049
going to look so ugly and my audience is going
471
00:22:01.069 --> 00:22:03.369
to hate me. And you know, it was, it was
472
00:22:03.410 --> 00:22:07.109
a fine line between making money because it's your you're
473
00:22:07.150 --> 00:22:09.049
doing it all the time and it has to be
474
00:22:09.089 --> 00:22:12.769
your job. And then like annoying the people reading. And
475
00:22:13.390 --> 00:22:16.859
then same with YouTube, like, you know, brand deals coming along.
476
00:22:16.900 --> 00:22:19.299
It felt awkward to accept a brand deal. It's not
477
00:22:19.339 --> 00:22:21.039
like it is now where you can just like, yeah,
478
00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:22.019
talk about a product.
479
00:22:22.259 --> 00:22:23.779
I was actually just thinking that because I actually haven't
480
00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:26.529
thought about in a while. I'm not sure in my
481
00:22:26.589 --> 00:22:30.349
head I've recognized how much the attitude towards ads has
482
00:22:30.369 --> 00:22:32.910
changed because I was just thinking how I used to
483
00:22:32.950 --> 00:22:35.910
think about ads. And I used to be scared shitless
484
00:22:35.970 --> 00:22:37.210
every time I was about to post them.
485
00:22:37.269 --> 00:22:37.650
Same.
486
00:22:37.670 --> 00:22:39.859
Just because it was, it was a detraction from your
487
00:22:39.890 --> 00:22:42.359
content and it was seen as a money grab rather
488
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:45.180
than a, well, I'm doing this and I'm spending all
489
00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:46.960
my days doing this. So it's obviously a job. So
490
00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:49.480
I need to make some money from it somewhere. I just,
491
00:22:49.660 --> 00:22:52.200
I remember being like terrified every time I had to
492
00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:52.779
post an ad.
493
00:22:53.339 --> 00:22:56.519
Same, like literally posting it and staying by the computer
494
00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:58.769
to wait to see how mad people would be about it.
495
00:22:58.779 --> 00:23:01.099
That's so, I hadn't even thought about how much that
496
00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:01.339
has changed.
497
00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:04.190
That must be a universal experience. I still sometimes, if I,
498
00:23:04.730 --> 00:23:06.549
promote something. I'm like, oh, how's this going to go down?
499
00:23:06.589 --> 00:23:08.710
But it doesn't affect my life like it did then.
500
00:23:09.150 --> 00:23:12.990
When you started earning money, what was the transition between
501
00:23:13.230 --> 00:23:15.059
doing that and then kind of going full time?
502
00:23:15.619 --> 00:23:18.720
Well, I said to myself, let's try this for a year.
503
00:23:19.380 --> 00:23:21.900
And I quit my part-time jobs. I was working at Topshop.
504
00:23:21.940 --> 00:23:24.000
I was working at Triumph and I was working at
505
00:23:24.700 --> 00:23:28.480
a furniture place. And I was studying as well. I
506
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:31.460
was in university because I was 19. Well, I was
507
00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:32.440
like 21 by this point.
508
00:23:32.619 --> 00:23:34.039
I didn't know you went to university in the UK.
509
00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:35.180
Well, I didn't graduate.
510
00:23:35.339 --> 00:23:35.539
Right.
511
00:23:37.019 --> 00:23:38.779
So, and it wasn't a British university. It was a
512
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:41.410
Canadian one that I had started. Long story. But I
513
00:23:41.430 --> 00:23:45.789
was studying psychology. So I was like learning about psychology
514
00:23:45.849 --> 00:23:48.430
and like photographing lipstick and then like going to work
515
00:23:48.450 --> 00:23:51.329
at Topshop. And I remember saying, something's got to give.
516
00:23:51.349 --> 00:23:52.779
You're not going to be able to do any of
517
00:23:52.819 --> 00:23:54.759
these things well. So the first thing that went was
518
00:23:54.779 --> 00:23:56.960
the university dropped out of that immediately. I didn't like
519
00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:00.529
it anyways. And number two, then I started to have
520
00:24:00.569 --> 00:24:03.150
this money coming in. And so I said, I'll give
521
00:24:03.170 --> 00:24:06.150
myself a year and give it my all. And I
522
00:24:06.190 --> 00:24:10.130
remember like having the conversation with myself, like don't half-ass this,
523
00:24:10.150 --> 00:24:13.609
like try. And there's something really vulnerable in that because
524
00:24:13.670 --> 00:24:17.559
if you fail and you know you've tried, how awkward
525
00:24:17.619 --> 00:24:21.640
is that? You're like, that's embarrassing. So it was really
526
00:24:21.700 --> 00:24:23.660
nerve wracking. And I remember like the first day when
527
00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:25.900
I was like full time doing YouTube and stuff, I
528
00:24:25.900 --> 00:24:29.470
remember thinking, Let's do this. Luckily it worked out.
529
00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:32.240
And so obviously this has kind of taken off at
530
00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:34.539
this point and you're, you know, you forged your own
531
00:24:34.579 --> 00:24:36.799
path in London. You've come halfway across the world and
532
00:24:36.819 --> 00:24:40.660
you've made something that is entirely yours and, you know,
533
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:42.980
is doing really well. I mean, it sounds like it
534
00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:44.720
was doing incredibly well at this time.
535
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:44.980
Yeah.
536
00:24:45.380 --> 00:24:48.569
Obviously part of this was the fact that you, you know,
537
00:24:48.650 --> 00:24:51.650
you were sharing your relationship publicly. You'd obviously moved across
538
00:24:51.690 --> 00:24:53.970
the world. I mean, I found it hard enough to
539
00:24:54.009 --> 00:24:56.130
be vlogging and not sharing a relationship when I wasn't
540
00:24:56.150 --> 00:24:56.990
living with anyone.
541
00:24:57.009 --> 00:24:57.089
Yeah.
542
00:24:57.980 --> 00:24:59.809
So obviously that was going to be part of it.
543
00:25:00.029 --> 00:25:03.089
How was that experience sharing a relationship?
544
00:25:03.650 --> 00:25:07.170
It just felt so natural to share my relationship. I
545
00:25:07.230 --> 00:25:10.170
moved across the world for this person. He was my
546
00:25:10.210 --> 00:25:14.970
world and I was sharing my life. So I never
547
00:25:15.269 --> 00:25:19.579
once thought of the consequences of sharing that relationship. A
548
00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:22.599
few years into it, we started like getting comments, like,
549
00:25:22.759 --> 00:25:25.160
you know, little things like, oh, at two minutes and
550
00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:27.559
12 seconds, do you see the way Estee looks at him?
551
00:25:28.309 --> 00:25:31.609
she obviously is a huge bitch or whatever the comments
552
00:25:31.630 --> 00:25:35.109
would be, right? That really gets in your head. And then,
553
00:25:35.390 --> 00:25:38.130
you know, other comments like he obviously doesn't even love her,
554
00:25:38.230 --> 00:25:38.789
like stuff like that.
555
00:25:39.250 --> 00:25:41.289
And I know- You're like, that's what my internal voice says.
556
00:25:41.309 --> 00:25:42.329
Yeah, they say everything.
557
00:25:42.349 --> 00:25:44.430
That's so funny that you've got the same thoughts.
558
00:25:44.630 --> 00:25:48.650
I know. So, you know, there is an impact to
559
00:25:48.690 --> 00:25:51.410
be had with that. And I'm not saying that was
560
00:25:51.430 --> 00:25:53.009
the reason we broke up or anything, but it adds
561
00:25:53.069 --> 00:25:57.450
to it. And- My work became such a huge part
562
00:25:57.490 --> 00:26:01.950
of our life and it was an absolutely crazy time.
563
00:26:03.049 --> 00:26:07.529
And so when that broke down, what was that experience
564
00:26:07.609 --> 00:26:11.329
like as someone who had shared your whole relationship online?
565
00:26:11.430 --> 00:26:14.849
Never thought I would ever experience it and never thought
566
00:26:14.869 --> 00:26:17.230
I'd have to share it. And you don't know how
567
00:26:17.250 --> 00:26:19.829
to navigate those things and then you don't know how
568
00:26:19.869 --> 00:26:21.849
to navigate them online. So.
569
00:26:23.150 --> 00:26:25.430
That must have been your first big breakup as well.
570
00:26:25.750 --> 00:26:30.970
Yes, yes, yes. And your girl got seriously hectic.
571
00:26:33.029 --> 00:26:36.549
And how did you feel hosting around that time? Because
572
00:26:36.569 --> 00:26:41.150
from my experience, when I've shared relationships online, when you
573
00:26:41.190 --> 00:26:45.950
go through a breakup, it is wild how quickly you think, fuck.
574
00:26:48.250 --> 00:26:52.569
Well, it was a nightmare to say the least. First
575
00:26:52.609 --> 00:26:56.769
of all, nowhere to begin. It was just the worst
576
00:26:56.809 --> 00:27:00.710
time of my life. You're so devastated anyway, no matter
577
00:27:00.750 --> 00:27:03.410
why you break up, as you said, it's a huge
578
00:27:04.190 --> 00:27:08.430
life change. And the embarrassment is real. I've been, you know,
579
00:27:08.450 --> 00:27:10.029
you've gone through a breakup since, and you tell your
580
00:27:10.049 --> 00:27:12.230
friends and you're like embarrassed for whatever reason. Now imagine
581
00:27:12.250 --> 00:27:15.069
telling your audience of over a million people who all
582
00:27:15.109 --> 00:27:17.329
have an opinion as to why you broke up, even
583
00:27:17.349 --> 00:27:20.750
though they have no idea, you know, So that is tough.
584
00:27:20.869 --> 00:27:23.079
And then not being able to control the narrative and
585
00:27:23.099 --> 00:27:25.740
them saying like, well, they broke up because this thing
586
00:27:25.779 --> 00:27:29.880
happened and not being able to say that's not even true. Yeah. Tanya.
587
00:27:29.900 --> 00:27:32.619
I don't even know. I don't even know, Tanya. But
588
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:34.039
you know, it's like, it's not even true.
589
00:27:34.059 --> 00:27:34.140
Yeah.
590
00:27:35.029 --> 00:27:36.490
And you can't say anything. You just have to let
591
00:27:36.509 --> 00:27:40.269
it go. But it's a huge added burden on top
592
00:27:40.630 --> 00:27:44.809
of your life falling apart. It was the worst time ever,
593
00:27:44.829 --> 00:27:45.609
I think, probably.
594
00:27:45.930 --> 00:27:47.410
I assume as part of that, you obviously had to
595
00:27:47.470 --> 00:27:53.099
navigate moving. And, or, you know, different living situation. You've
596
00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:56.559
obviously moved halfway across the world for someone and then
597
00:27:56.579 --> 00:27:58.099
you're not with them anymore. And it is, you know,
598
00:27:58.140 --> 00:28:00.319
nearly a decade later, but that's, I mean, that's probably
599
00:28:00.380 --> 00:28:02.740
even more added to it. Did you ever consider going
600
00:28:02.779 --> 00:28:03.500
back to Canada?
601
00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:07.509
I definitely considered it for like two seconds.
602
00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:09.650
Sure.
603
00:28:09.849 --> 00:28:12.049
I definitely thought I was going to move to New York.
604
00:28:12.190 --> 00:28:13.609
I thought that was going to be the thing I did.
605
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:16.660
Because it was closer to my family. I had lots
606
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:18.980
of friends there. And that was the thing I thought
607
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:20.880
I wanted to do. But anyway, that didn't work out.
608
00:28:21.299 --> 00:28:24.069
London is where I spent all of my 20s. My
609
00:28:24.119 --> 00:28:28.769
entire world is in London. So I ended up staying
610
00:28:28.789 --> 00:28:34.569
in London. And I'm still here and I'm engaged. Spoiler alert.
611
00:28:35.930 --> 00:28:38.990
You've talked about how much your dog is a big
612
00:28:39.009 --> 00:28:41.940
part of your life. How has, and I ask this
613
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:44.180
because I know the answer for me, how has having
614
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:47.680
a dog impacted your mental health?
615
00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:51.680
She is my world. She is my passion. She is
616
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:55.420
my reason for being. When I wake up in the morning,
617
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:57.859
I always feel like I could go one of two ways.
618
00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:04.849
FML or, oh my God, Effie, my dog. So she's
619
00:29:04.950 --> 00:29:06.269
just my sunshine.
620
00:29:06.980 --> 00:29:07.779
And when did you get her?
621
00:29:07.940 --> 00:29:11.039
She's four now. So I got her when she was
622
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:14.920
six months old. And she's, oh my God, that's been
623
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:17.609
a whole other situation. I adopted her from Greece from
624
00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:21.670
a charity called Wild at Heart Foundation. And she's a
625
00:29:21.869 --> 00:29:26.109
little miss nervous. She's scared of her own shadow. She
626
00:29:26.190 --> 00:29:30.910
is the most nervous creature. Yeah. She hates people. She's
627
00:29:30.950 --> 00:29:33.930
scared of the wind. For the first four or five months,
628
00:29:33.990 --> 00:29:36.099
she wouldn't look at me in the eye. She wouldn't
629
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:37.799
eat in the same room as me. And that was
630
00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:41.259
all happening during the pandemic. So I felt so alone.
631
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:44.079
I had just went through another breakup and I was
632
00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:46.940
living in my flat by myself, away from my family
633
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:48.640
in the middle of the pandemic. I just adopted this
634
00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:50.599
dog who wants nothing to do with me. I just
635
00:29:50.660 --> 00:29:54.279
lost my previous dog, my greyhound, who I, that's my soulmate.
636
00:29:55.240 --> 00:29:57.700
It was the worst time of my life. But now
637
00:29:57.859 --> 00:29:58.480
she's my everything.
638
00:29:58.759 --> 00:30:00.740
And you've recently got engaged.
639
00:30:00.859 --> 00:30:01.579
I did.
640
00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:02.900
Congratulations.
641
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:06.609
Big shocker because no one even knew I had a bae. Yeah.
642
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:08.950
I mean, I want to talk about this. And obviously
643
00:30:08.990 --> 00:30:11.069
it is like whatever you want to share and whatever
644
00:30:11.109 --> 00:30:13.990
you don't want to share. You obviously made the decision
645
00:30:14.069 --> 00:30:16.069
to keep this relationship private.
646
00:30:16.150 --> 00:30:16.390
Yeah.
647
00:30:16.549 --> 00:30:17.930
Could you talk a little bit about that?
648
00:30:18.150 --> 00:30:22.279
So after the world's worst breakup of all time. Sure.
649
00:30:22.339 --> 00:30:23.640
And I think another thing I want to say about
650
00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:29.119
that is we broke up. During like the height of YouTube,
651
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:32.259
basically for me and my career, if you could say
652
00:30:32.299 --> 00:30:34.960
my YouTube career. So it wasn't like now. I feel
653
00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:36.809
like if I broke up with someone now, it would
654
00:30:36.829 --> 00:30:37.589
be like, oh, sad.
655
00:30:37.710 --> 00:30:38.130
Yeah.
656
00:30:38.170 --> 00:30:42.190
Moving on. At that time, it was a hot topic.
657
00:30:42.490 --> 00:30:46.130
So anyway, after that experience and the trauma and having
658
00:30:46.210 --> 00:30:49.789
to rehash that breakup, I mean, most normal people don't
659
00:30:49.849 --> 00:30:53.750
talk about a relationship from five years ago. But because
660
00:30:53.809 --> 00:30:56.869
I shared so much, people know so much, they feel
661
00:30:56.890 --> 00:31:00.650
like it was yesterday. Anyway, after that, I swore I
662
00:31:00.670 --> 00:31:03.359
would never share a relationship ever again. That was just
663
00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:06.920
like something I said to myself because first of all,
664
00:31:07.140 --> 00:31:08.839
I would never want to go through it personally. But
665
00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:10.880
second of all, I would never want the other person
666
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:13.339
to have to go through that publicly. Yeah.
667
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:15.859
No, I can imagine. And you feel a responsibility to them,
668
00:31:16.220 --> 00:31:18.400
even though they also got a lot of benefits from it.
669
00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:21.130
But it's also like, as in... you know, absolutely. It
670
00:31:21.170 --> 00:31:23.269
was you who made that decision. I always think that
671
00:31:23.329 --> 00:31:25.390
I'm always like, come for me as much as you want,
672
00:31:25.930 --> 00:31:28.779
but like this person did not put themselves online.
673
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:29.059
Yeah.
674
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:32.160
I haven't even really. So like, fuck right off. Like
675
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:33.980
that is the point that we will fight. Yes.
676
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:36.819
I know. I know. I'm so protective of him.
677
00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:40.289
And so what lessons did you bring into this relationship?
678
00:31:40.309 --> 00:31:45.710
Oh gosh. Don't make your job, your life, even though
679
00:31:45.730 --> 00:31:49.799
it is Um, he has no social media, so he
680
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:53.319
doesn't even get anything. Like if I say a phrase like,
681
00:31:53.579 --> 00:31:56.049
what's the tea? Like he doesn't even know what that means.
682
00:31:57.220 --> 00:32:00.289
He's like, he's just so different to anyone I've ever dated.
683
00:32:00.309 --> 00:32:03.730
So I've taken that in. This is like a separate thing,
684
00:32:03.769 --> 00:32:07.109
but like my temper has chilled out a lot in
685
00:32:07.130 --> 00:32:10.690
this relationship. I can be a little mean because I'm
686
00:32:10.710 --> 00:32:14.789
so stressed. Not in this relationship though. I'm a lot nicer.
687
00:32:15.329 --> 00:32:16.170
So he calms you.
688
00:32:16.339 --> 00:32:19.759
He's very calming. He's Mr. Chill. That's what we call him.
689
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:22.420
And have you spoken about how you met or how
690
00:32:22.460 --> 00:32:23.440
long you've been together?
691
00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:27.789
We met on Hinge. We've been together for like two
692
00:32:27.809 --> 00:32:29.849
and a half years, something like that. But we had
693
00:32:29.890 --> 00:32:32.910
a breakup in there for a while. We call it
694
00:32:32.950 --> 00:32:35.849
the patch. When you meet someone in your 30s, it's
695
00:32:35.910 --> 00:32:37.630
different to when you meet someone in your 20s and
696
00:32:37.650 --> 00:32:39.619
you grow up with them. When you meet someone in
697
00:32:39.630 --> 00:32:43.490
your 30s, you're already a fully formed individual. And it's
698
00:32:43.930 --> 00:32:48.049
really difficult to kind of bring those two people together.
699
00:32:48.069 --> 00:32:50.640
It's not like when you're in your 20s and you
700
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:55.119
fuse as one. It's really difficult. So when you're dating
701
00:32:55.140 --> 00:32:56.660
in your 30s, you're like, okay, am I going to
702
00:32:56.680 --> 00:33:00.299
marry you? And if so, is this the reality of it? Like,
703
00:33:00.460 --> 00:33:01.900
it's tough. It's really tough.
704
00:33:02.049 --> 00:33:05.910
And did you have conversations around getting engaged before you
705
00:33:05.930 --> 00:33:07.009
got engaged?
706
00:33:07.029 --> 00:33:08.329
Oh, did we have conversations?
707
00:33:08.349 --> 00:33:11.069
Yeah. What else was there to talk about?
708
00:33:11.089 --> 00:33:13.250
That was the only thing I spoke about. I wanted
709
00:33:13.269 --> 00:33:16.730
to get engaged so badly. I wanted to be engaged forever.
710
00:33:17.170 --> 00:33:20.190
And I went viral on TikTok about this because I said,
711
00:33:20.210 --> 00:33:26.130
how is everyone out here getting engaged? Just wondering. Everyone
712
00:33:26.190 --> 00:33:28.390
I see is getting engaged. Yeah. Except me.
713
00:33:28.410 --> 00:33:30.319
Um, hello?
714
00:33:30.339 --> 00:33:31.740
What are, why?
715
00:33:32.539 --> 00:33:34.619
It's so funny because when I was thinking about this
716
00:33:34.660 --> 00:33:37.079
and when I was getting like little inklings of my
717
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:41.559
own engagement, like upcoming. I was like, this is the
718
00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:45.130
strangest concept when you really think about it. Like the
719
00:33:45.190 --> 00:33:48.029
concept of someone being like, yes, I will be with
720
00:33:48.069 --> 00:33:49.890
you forever and I will give you a ring and
721
00:33:49.910 --> 00:33:51.890
I will get down on one knee to ask that,
722
00:33:52.009 --> 00:33:54.650
even though we've previously spoken about this, because obviously it's
723
00:33:54.690 --> 00:33:56.819
a conversation we're going to have as adults and also
724
00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:59.200
before making a big investment into something like a ring
725
00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:01.619
and like all of this. And so it's actually like,
726
00:34:02.140 --> 00:34:03.420
I was just thinking over and over and I was like,
727
00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:05.740
this is very bizarre, guys. But I was also, you know,
728
00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:10.719
I have also been someone who has... seen that even
729
00:34:10.739 --> 00:34:12.920
though I know it's not the Beedle and Endle at
730
00:34:12.980 --> 00:34:14.440
all it hasn't been for me I don't think it
731
00:34:14.460 --> 00:34:17.260
should be for anyone but I do think you see
732
00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:19.710
it especially if you've had any sort.
733
00:34:19.590 --> 00:34:22.329
Of abandonment issues yeah you.
734
00:34:22.210 --> 00:34:24.730
See it as something where someone is genuinely being like
735
00:34:25.429 --> 00:34:28.010
I choose you I choose you above everything and I
736
00:34:28.050 --> 00:34:31.599
choose you as like the person to build this with.
737
00:34:32.019 --> 00:34:34.280
And from this point forward, we will work out whatever
738
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:36.000
we will work out. And I understand, I mean, I'm
739
00:34:36.139 --> 00:34:38.159
a child of divorce as well. Like, and I understand, like,
740
00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:40.739
I've actually never seen a longstanding happy married.
741
00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:41.969
No, same, never seen it.
742
00:34:42.010 --> 00:34:43.610
So it's like, this is, you know, it's a wonder
743
00:34:43.690 --> 00:34:46.110
I even think this is like a good idea. It's
744
00:34:46.130 --> 00:34:49.099
like a pledge. It's a decision. And I also saw,
745
00:34:49.449 --> 00:34:51.550
and it's so funny because a lot of the people I,
746
00:34:51.570 --> 00:34:53.070
a lot of the women I speak to who I
747
00:34:53.110 --> 00:34:55.630
think you would never care about that. are also the
748
00:34:55.670 --> 00:34:56.989
women who are like, absolutely.
749
00:34:57.030 --> 00:34:59.780
I shouldn't care about this. It's off-brand for me to
750
00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:04.639
care about this. I don't know why I do. Society, whatever.
751
00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:06.179
I don't know and I don't care, but I did
752
00:35:06.219 --> 00:35:10.840
care about it. And I feel great. And I am
753
00:35:11.059 --> 00:35:14.690
very happy. Because I don't, I can't explain it. Our
754
00:35:14.730 --> 00:35:16.989
relationships changed since we got engaged. I don't know if
755
00:35:17.010 --> 00:35:20.130
you feel that way. I feel way more solid. So
756
00:35:20.570 --> 00:35:22.409
the engagement itself. Yes.
757
00:35:23.099 --> 00:35:24.679
You'd been talking about it up to this point.
758
00:35:24.900 --> 00:35:27.980
I wasn't talking about it. Right. I said, if you
759
00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:31.059
don't propose to me, you can say goodbye to me
760
00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:33.179
and you can say goodbye to the dog because I
761
00:35:33.260 --> 00:35:35.090
am done waiting around.
762
00:35:35.369 --> 00:35:36.989
And when was this in your relationship?
763
00:35:37.389 --> 00:35:40.829
Early. Too early. I just loved him. As soon as
764
00:35:40.849 --> 00:35:43.449
I met him, I loved him. And I couldn't believe
765
00:35:43.530 --> 00:35:47.300
that he wasn't desperate to lock it down. I'm a
766
00:35:47.320 --> 00:35:50.090
Leo too, though. I was like, what do you have
767
00:35:50.130 --> 00:35:52.469
to think about? But after the sort of one and
768
00:35:52.489 --> 00:35:55.530
a half year mark, I was like, I'm not going
769
00:35:55.550 --> 00:35:57.150
to waste any more of my time here because I'd
770
00:35:57.190 --> 00:35:59.949
rather be single. I would rather be single. And I
771
00:36:00.050 --> 00:36:03.449
love being single, for the record. It's amazing. It's the
772
00:36:03.550 --> 00:36:04.409
best part of my life.
773
00:36:04.429 --> 00:36:09.659
There's this narrative of women who are basically telling men
774
00:36:09.699 --> 00:36:12.219
to do this and all of this. But you say
775
00:36:12.260 --> 00:36:16.360
that at the same time as having a recognition of
776
00:36:16.829 --> 00:36:19.329
of the fact that actually like women do have to
777
00:36:19.369 --> 00:36:21.889
have a certain timeline, especially if they want children. And
778
00:36:21.929 --> 00:36:23.630
I'm not saying that anyone needs to get engaged or
779
00:36:23.650 --> 00:36:26.070
married before having children, but if that is what you want,
780
00:36:26.690 --> 00:36:29.130
it takes the average woman two years to get pregnant.
781
00:36:29.150 --> 00:36:30.989
Like there is going to be an element of time
782
00:36:31.070 --> 00:36:31.340
on it.
783
00:36:31.449 --> 00:36:36.679
Look, Grace, I didn't want to have to ask. I
784
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:40.360
didn't want to give an ultimatum, but unfortunately he's Mr.
785
00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:42.739
Chill and he wanted to get married to me too.
786
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:45.179
But I think it just would have taken him like
787
00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:47.110
a hundred years. He's slow. He's a slow poke. He's
788
00:36:47.139 --> 00:36:50.110
a turtle. And I don't want to spend that time.
789
00:36:50.340 --> 00:36:53.349
I'm already sure what's going on here. I wanted to
790
00:36:53.389 --> 00:36:55.269
get married before I had kids. It's something that was
791
00:36:55.329 --> 00:36:56.949
important to me. And I don't know why, because it's
792
00:36:56.989 --> 00:36:59.369
so backwards. It makes no sense, but it's just important
793
00:36:59.389 --> 00:37:02.909
to me. Okay. I said that to him and he
794
00:37:02.949 --> 00:37:06.289
did it and congratulations to him. He's getting to marry
795
00:37:06.329 --> 00:37:08.489
me and I'm getting to marry him all because I
796
00:37:08.849 --> 00:37:12.690
pushed it along. Look, if he didn't marry me, If
797
00:37:12.769 --> 00:37:14.010
he was like, look, I don't want to marry you,
798
00:37:14.110 --> 00:37:16.190
that would have been fine. I just wanted to know.
799
00:37:16.590 --> 00:37:19.280
Is this in the future for us? I just want
800
00:37:19.300 --> 00:37:21.679
to know. Because if it's not, I'm going to move on.
801
00:37:21.780 --> 00:37:24.900
It wasn't like, you know, forcing him to marry me.
802
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:27.519
It was more speeding it up a little bit to say,
803
00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:29.949
is this something you want? As far as I saw it,
804
00:37:30.010 --> 00:37:31.670
I was at a crossroads. I'm either going to marry
805
00:37:31.710 --> 00:37:33.289
this man and we're going to do this thing, or
806
00:37:33.630 --> 00:37:36.010
we're going to break up and I'm going to start
807
00:37:36.150 --> 00:37:38.389
trying to get pregnant on my own. And I didn't
808
00:37:38.429 --> 00:37:39.869
know which way it was going to go. It was
809
00:37:39.909 --> 00:37:40.710
up to him at that point.
810
00:37:41.449 --> 00:37:43.860
That's so interesting. So is that something that you'd set
811
00:37:44.050 --> 00:37:44.489
as a.
812
00:37:44.590 --> 00:37:46.599
Yes. That's what I was going to do. And I
813
00:37:46.659 --> 00:37:49.500
wouldn't have any issue doing that. I have great friends.
814
00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:52.340
I have a great support system. Sorry, I don't need
815
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:55.119
a man to have a baby with. I mean, in
816
00:37:55.480 --> 00:37:56.739
some ways, I think it would be easier if I
817
00:37:56.820 --> 00:37:59.989
didn't have a guy around annoying me all the time
818
00:38:00.150 --> 00:38:03.630
with his dirty socks. But that was what I thought
819
00:38:03.650 --> 00:38:04.269
I was going to do.
820
00:38:04.730 --> 00:38:07.869
And so when was the... Cutoff point.
821
00:38:08.150 --> 00:38:10.780
The end of the summer. Really? Yes.
822
00:38:11.420 --> 00:38:12.559
And when did he propose?
823
00:38:12.659 --> 00:38:17.239
Well, he proposed the 14th of August or 15th or
824
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:20.380
something like that. And he already had the plan to
825
00:38:20.420 --> 00:38:23.860
do it. And then on like the 1st of August,
826
00:38:24.150 --> 00:38:26.150
I brought it up or something like that. And he
827
00:38:26.170 --> 00:38:27.929
was like, so when is the last day of summer?
828
00:38:27.969 --> 00:38:29.409
And I said, end of August. He was like, oh,
829
00:38:29.449 --> 00:38:31.789
I thought you said it was like end of September.
830
00:38:31.849 --> 00:38:35.050
I was like, don't test me.
831
00:38:35.090 --> 00:38:35.190
Yeah.
832
00:38:36.219 --> 00:38:37.579
Because it's the end of August. I will be going
833
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:38.320
to the clinic.
834
00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:38.639
Yeah.
835
00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:41.659
It's the end of August for me, hun. And he
836
00:38:41.699 --> 00:38:42.739
already knew he was going to do it.
837
00:38:42.739 --> 00:38:46.280
That's so funny. What I love about this as women,
838
00:38:46.579 --> 00:38:48.619
having been told to be the chill girl and having
839
00:38:48.639 --> 00:38:50.579
been told that that's the default and therefore if you
840
00:38:50.619 --> 00:38:52.920
don't do it, you're not going to get what you want.
841
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:54.679
And then I kind of was like drawing a line
842
00:38:54.739 --> 00:38:57.050
and being like, well, actually every non-chill girl I know
843
00:38:57.110 --> 00:38:58.969
has got exactly what they want because they've been very
844
00:38:59.030 --> 00:39:01.610
clear with what they want. I didn't personally have like
845
00:39:01.630 --> 00:39:03.670
this timeline. There has never been a point that I've
846
00:39:03.710 --> 00:39:07.530
been chilled. even though actually at this stage, it wasn't
847
00:39:07.570 --> 00:39:09.420
something that I was like, this is like right now.
848
00:39:09.579 --> 00:39:11.340
It was like, well, if we're talking about a future,
849
00:39:11.380 --> 00:39:12.980
this is current. This is what my view of the
850
00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:16.380
future looks like. Just FYI. Just FYI. And I really
851
00:39:16.420 --> 00:39:18.059
like how you own not being chill.
852
00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:23.280
It's who I am. He's very happy now. He tells me.
853
00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:25.550
When I put a gun to his head. So the
854
00:39:25.570 --> 00:39:30.760
rumors say. No, he's, said to me, like, what was
855
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:33.139
he waiting for kind of thing. He feels really happy
856
00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:35.659
about everything. We have so much fun together. I wish
857
00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:39.679
I could share the relationship because it's a great relationship.
858
00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:41.329
We literally laugh 24-7.
859
00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:44.679
And do you think you will share it at some point?
860
00:39:46.300 --> 00:39:46.539
No.
861
00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:47.679
I mean.
862
00:39:48.659 --> 00:39:52.420
Maybe, but probably not. It's too sacred.
863
00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:54.320
It's too sacred. Yeah.
864
00:39:54.460 --> 00:39:58.480
If it ain't broke. Yeah. And like, he's just not
865
00:39:58.500 --> 00:40:00.940
about that life. He doesn't want to be on camera
866
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:03.239
like at all. I think when we get married, I'll
867
00:40:03.260 --> 00:40:06.159
share some photos. Yeah. But I don't even say his name.
868
00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:07.679
So you haven't showed his face?
869
00:40:07.820 --> 00:40:08.139
No.
870
00:40:09.260 --> 00:40:11.480
He could be any man on the street.
871
00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:16.369
I showed his elbow twice. And someone was like, is
872
00:40:16.389 --> 00:40:19.019
that the same elbow we saw in Italy?
873
00:40:19.039 --> 00:40:23.159
Can you tell me very quickly about the proposal?
874
00:40:23.619 --> 00:40:26.320
Very calm and chill. Exactly how I wanted it. Walking
875
00:40:26.360 --> 00:40:30.170
the dog in Dorset. There were some wild horses. It
876
00:40:30.210 --> 00:40:32.070
was cute. It was just very low key. I couldn't
877
00:40:32.090 --> 00:40:36.510
believe it. Even though I made it happen. But I
878
00:40:36.550 --> 00:40:40.070
couldn't believe that he actually did it. It was amazing. Yeah.
879
00:40:40.190 --> 00:40:42.030
No, I can imagine that feeling. I want to talk
880
00:40:42.050 --> 00:40:42.829
about Mirror Water.
881
00:40:43.010 --> 00:40:43.230
Okay.
882
00:40:43.530 --> 00:40:47.510
You have an incredible brand. What was the decision behind
883
00:40:47.570 --> 00:40:48.130
starting it?
884
00:40:49.150 --> 00:40:52.489
So talking about chill, I have no chill. I'm stressed
885
00:40:52.550 --> 00:40:54.840
all the time. I always say I'm the most stressed
886
00:40:54.889 --> 00:41:00.079
out person that owns a relaxation brand. But that's why.
887
00:41:00.260 --> 00:41:02.500
That's why. Because I need it. I'm my customer. I'm
888
00:41:03.260 --> 00:41:05.570
I have worked in the beauty industry for so long.
889
00:41:05.610 --> 00:41:08.610
I always knew I wanted to create a brand. I
890
00:41:08.670 --> 00:41:11.650
never knew what it would be. And I was always
891
00:41:11.690 --> 00:41:14.010
trying to like make things fit. And I was like,
892
00:41:14.030 --> 00:41:15.300
that's not right. That's not right. I was like, I
893
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:17.699
could launch a lipstick and I could do this. And obviously,
894
00:41:17.739 --> 00:41:19.500
you know what it's like over the years, you get
895
00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:22.000
approached to kind of put your name on products all
896
00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:24.469
the time. And no, no, no, no, no. But during
897
00:41:24.489 --> 00:41:26.869
the pandemic, when I was at my lowest, I think
898
00:41:26.889 --> 00:41:29.610
that was when I started to think more seriously. And
899
00:41:29.630 --> 00:41:31.369
I had a lot more space in my brain to
900
00:41:31.409 --> 00:41:33.239
think about what I wanted to do and what I
901
00:41:33.260 --> 00:41:35.559
wanted to achieve with my life. And I had been
902
00:41:35.579 --> 00:41:38.840
creating content for about 12 years at that point. So
903
00:41:38.860 --> 00:41:41.119
I'd kind of like been around the block. I just
904
00:41:41.139 --> 00:41:43.880
found myself taking a lot of baths to just get
905
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:48.400
through the week and the day. I... realized that there
906
00:41:48.460 --> 00:41:50.969
is a gap in the market for bath and body care.
907
00:41:51.389 --> 00:41:53.570
It's kind of like the last category to have like
908
00:41:53.610 --> 00:41:56.170
a huge boom. We've seen like skincare boom, we've seen
909
00:41:56.650 --> 00:41:59.230
hair care, but a lot of people kind of ignore
910
00:41:59.269 --> 00:42:02.429
that 90% of their body below the neck. And one
911
00:42:02.449 --> 00:42:04.780
thing I talk a lot about online, yes, is my
912
00:42:04.820 --> 00:42:07.699
mental health, but it's also body image. And I think
913
00:42:08.460 --> 00:42:10.760
we don't even touch our bodies. We like want to
914
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:13.760
pretend they don't exist sometimes, you know, and there's something
915
00:42:13.780 --> 00:42:18.650
about being in a bath and, and, seeing your naked self.
916
00:42:18.750 --> 00:42:23.650
There really is yeah like I literally lie like yeah.
917
00:42:23.389 --> 00:42:27.590
And it's like that's my body it's weird right it is.
918
00:42:27.510 --> 00:42:29.269
A really weird feeling oh I also find that if
919
00:42:29.309 --> 00:42:31.789
you're short you don't stay upright properly in the bath
920
00:42:31.829 --> 00:42:33.809
so I'm like kind of like hunched but also like
921
00:42:33.989 --> 00:42:35.809
holding myself up and then kind of just looking down
922
00:42:35.829 --> 00:42:36.469
like oh.
923
00:42:36.590 --> 00:42:40.570
Okay that's going on there and my bath time and
924
00:42:40.610 --> 00:42:43.889
my shower time is my time to self-reflect it's my
925
00:42:43.929 --> 00:42:46.050
time to process so that's a little behind the name
926
00:42:46.150 --> 00:42:48.349
mirror water And I had been working on it during
927
00:42:48.369 --> 00:42:51.570
the pandemic and planning it and trying to raise money
928
00:42:51.699 --> 00:42:54.539
to do that during the pandemic and taking Zoom calls.
929
00:42:54.579 --> 00:42:56.519
And I'd never done that before. But I really wanted
930
00:42:56.559 --> 00:43:01.059
a challenge. And similar to my thoughts on creating YouTube
931
00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:05.460
as my full-time job, I said to myself, just try this.
932
00:43:06.119 --> 00:43:08.800
Give it your all. Like, really try. Don't half-ass this.
933
00:43:08.909 --> 00:43:11.369
If you're going to do this, do this. And once
934
00:43:11.409 --> 00:43:13.250
I made that commitment, it's kind of been full steam ahead.
935
00:43:13.289 --> 00:43:15.590
And you know what that's like. Like, it just takes
936
00:43:15.690 --> 00:43:17.570
over your... Life.
937
00:43:18.050 --> 00:43:19.150
And what's been the hardest part?
938
00:43:19.650 --> 00:43:22.469
Working with a team in the sense that I've never
939
00:43:22.489 --> 00:43:25.199
worked with a team before. I've always worked for myself.
940
00:43:25.940 --> 00:43:30.179
I've always worked by myself from home with my own
941
00:43:30.300 --> 00:43:34.900
game plan, doing everything. And learning to delegate, learning to
942
00:43:35.019 --> 00:43:38.099
manage people. I've never done that before. Now I have
943
00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:42.530
a team of like six. Just managing emotions, managing workload,
944
00:43:42.570 --> 00:43:43.860
managing expectations.
945
00:43:44.730 --> 00:43:44.889
And.
946
00:43:45.530 --> 00:43:48.539
Just learning how to be a boss because I've always
947
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:50.460
had my own company in the sense of what I
948
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:53.219
did with my content creation and stuff, but I've never
949
00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:56.719
had to manage other people. That is a huge skill
950
00:43:56.780 --> 00:43:59.519
that no one teaches you. And also you're trying to
951
00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:02.889
do your job, which is run the company. Plus I'm
952
00:44:02.949 --> 00:44:07.750
trying to vlog and create content and that's my real job.
953
00:44:08.150 --> 00:44:10.750
It's a lot. It's a lot. But I think just
954
00:44:10.809 --> 00:44:13.030
that whole process, especially that first year of, you know,
955
00:44:13.070 --> 00:44:16.440
setting things up like Slack and Notion and having boundaries,
956
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:20.159
like we're not WhatsAppping each other, we're emailing and talking
957
00:44:20.199 --> 00:44:23.920
on Slack. And that was a huge learning curve for me,
958
00:44:24.219 --> 00:44:25.130
but I love it.
959
00:44:25.739 --> 00:44:28.619
And so what's the big aim for the brand?
960
00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:31.570
I have a lot of goals. I love the brand.
961
00:44:31.590 --> 00:44:34.889
I personally need to say that I eat, breathe, sleep
962
00:44:34.969 --> 00:44:37.469
this brand, and I'm sure you feel the same. I
963
00:44:37.510 --> 00:44:40.789
really want to see the brand and the community grow.
964
00:44:41.010 --> 00:44:44.179
I want to be able to do more in the US.
965
00:44:44.300 --> 00:44:46.409
I want to be able to do more here in
966
00:44:46.429 --> 00:44:49.530
the UK and Europe. And I want to be able
967
00:44:49.750 --> 00:44:52.110
to kind of, of course, launch new products and that's
968
00:44:52.130 --> 00:44:55.190
all very exciting, but I want to do more things
969
00:44:55.550 --> 00:45:00.070
that I'm good at, like podcasting and creating an online
970
00:45:00.110 --> 00:45:02.960
community as well as releasing products. And I think that's
971
00:45:03.500 --> 00:45:06.280
really what sets us apart. Of course, we've got beautiful products,
972
00:45:06.340 --> 00:45:08.940
but we have an amazing community of people that are
973
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:14.590
interested in wellness in terms of what's actually realistic, what's
974
00:45:14.769 --> 00:45:17.329
actually going to make me feel better, regardless of if
975
00:45:17.389 --> 00:45:19.269
it's the Bath & Body products. It's like going for
976
00:45:19.309 --> 00:45:22.429
a walk today for 15 minutes. And we talk a
977
00:45:22.469 --> 00:45:25.389
lot about that. And we do amazing community events. And
978
00:45:25.550 --> 00:45:26.889
I want to be able to put more of my
979
00:45:26.929 --> 00:45:29.719
energy in those sorts of things. Whereas right now, I'm
980
00:45:29.739 --> 00:45:35.039
kind of like, Christmas packaging. What is the MOQ on
981
00:45:35.079 --> 00:45:38.480
that gift wrap? That's not really where my skill set lies.
982
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:40.869
I'm doing it. I'm learning it. but I really want
983
00:45:40.889 --> 00:45:44.610
to be able to grow the community element of the brand.
984
00:45:45.030 --> 00:45:48.909
And like when you look at success for you, knowing
985
00:45:48.949 --> 00:45:51.099
what you've been through, knowing what your life's looked like
986
00:45:51.139 --> 00:45:54.059
to date, what does that look like? Like what's your
987
00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:56.920
biggest desire in terms of success for yourself?
988
00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:02.980
My biggest desire is having kids ASAP. Not now because
989
00:46:03.079 --> 00:46:06.340
I'm I have a brand baby that I'm trying to grow. Sure.
990
00:46:06.500 --> 00:46:07.260
So that's my focus.
991
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:08.159
And they do act out.
992
00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:13.139
Yeah, they do. They can be naughty. She's a little toddler.
993
00:46:13.159 --> 00:46:17.429
I want to have kids. That's something that I'm really into.
994
00:46:18.349 --> 00:46:20.150
And I want to be working. And I want to
995
00:46:20.230 --> 00:46:22.969
set an example to my kids that you can be
996
00:46:22.989 --> 00:46:27.329
a working mom. You can have depression and still slay.
997
00:46:28.329 --> 00:46:31.989
And I want to have an amazing team. And I
998
00:46:32.030 --> 00:46:36.110
want to... I really want to start mentoring younger people.
999
00:46:36.130 --> 00:46:38.070
And sometimes I do that with my assistants. I mean,
1000
00:46:38.090 --> 00:46:39.780
depending on the assistant and what they want to learn.
1001
00:46:40.300 --> 00:46:44.119
But I want to show them like what it's like,
1002
00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:47.199
you know, and I love that element of things. I
1003
00:46:47.219 --> 00:46:50.400
want to have like an internship program. That's what I
1004
00:46:50.420 --> 00:46:54.119
get excited about. That would be pretty cool, I think.
1005
00:46:54.940 --> 00:46:56.780
What is your greatest achievement?
1006
00:46:57.960 --> 00:46:59.989
My relationship with my mom, I think.
1007
00:47:00.329 --> 00:47:05.039
Oh, I love that. I really, really love that. Why
1008
00:47:05.059 --> 00:47:05.880
do you think that's so good?
1009
00:47:06.519 --> 00:47:11.280
It's just the best. And it does take work. And
1010
00:47:11.300 --> 00:47:15.300
I think we choose, we choose each other. My mom
1011
00:47:15.340 --> 00:47:15.960
is my everything.
1012
00:47:18.320 --> 00:47:21.840
What is your non-negotiable habit that keeps you going through
1013
00:47:21.900 --> 00:47:22.340
every day?
1014
00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:26.710
Clean space. When my flat is a mess, I am
1015
00:47:26.750 --> 00:47:31.369
a mess. I need an organized space. That is a non-negotiable.
1016
00:47:32.449 --> 00:47:35.869
Who is your career hero? So like who did you
1017
00:47:35.969 --> 00:47:37.030
or do you look up to?
1018
00:47:38.030 --> 00:47:41.170
This is maybe too generic, but I genuinely look up
1019
00:47:41.269 --> 00:47:43.969
to anyone that's launched a brand full stop. It takes
1020
00:47:44.010 --> 00:47:45.170
a lot to do that.
1021
00:47:45.869 --> 00:47:48.730
When you look at people who have, who is doing
1022
00:47:48.750 --> 00:47:49.909
it how you'd like to do it.
1023
00:47:51.010 --> 00:47:55.139
My mentor, her name is Marie. She launched a company
1024
00:47:55.159 --> 00:47:58.900
called Galenae. It's a skincare brand, probiotic skincare brand. And
1025
00:47:59.619 --> 00:48:03.099
she's taught me everything that I know. So she's shout
1026
00:48:03.139 --> 00:48:04.239
out to Marie, basically.
1027
00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:06.550
What is your best founder moment?
1028
00:48:08.190 --> 00:48:11.909
Launching the brand in Space NK. That was our first retailer.
1029
00:48:12.429 --> 00:48:15.289
That was huge for me. And then Liberty after that.
1030
00:48:15.730 --> 00:48:18.090
And is part of your strategy to be in a
1031
00:48:18.130 --> 00:48:18.769
lot of retail?
1032
00:48:19.210 --> 00:48:24.030
Yeah, I think retail is pretty essential to us. Currently,
1033
00:48:24.429 --> 00:48:26.380
about half of our sales come from D2C and half
1034
00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:29.769
from B2B. But I think retail is really exciting and
1035
00:48:29.949 --> 00:48:32.710
that's how you get that brand awareness. And it really
1036
00:48:32.750 --> 00:48:35.949
kind of gives the brand a little tick of Liberty
1037
00:48:35.969 --> 00:48:38.070
thinks this is good. Space and K thinks this is good.
1038
00:48:38.730 --> 00:48:41.789
I must be doing something right. It's for me, it's
1039
00:48:41.829 --> 00:48:42.530
been helpful.
1040
00:48:42.969 --> 00:48:46.119
If you could change one thing about starting a business,
1041
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:47.139
what would it be?
1042
00:48:48.260 --> 00:48:53.960
I think I wish there was more opportunity with women
1043
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:56.420
in finance. I think it's getting a lot better and
1044
00:48:56.460 --> 00:48:59.139
I've been like, included in so many founder groups and
1045
00:48:59.159 --> 00:49:00.780
all of that sort of thing. But when I launched
1046
00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:05.510
the business, I didn't know anything. I didn't know what
1047
00:49:05.550 --> 00:49:08.389
a P & L was. To be honest, I still
1048
00:49:08.429 --> 00:49:08.929
kind of don't.
1049
00:49:09.710 --> 00:49:10.929
I'm still a bit lost here.
1050
00:49:11.489 --> 00:49:16.349
But that is a huge kind of world, learning more
1051
00:49:16.369 --> 00:49:17.710
about finance earlier on.
1052
00:49:18.150 --> 00:49:20.510
And how have you self-educated in finance?
1053
00:49:20.909 --> 00:49:27.570
YouTube, podcasts. I go to VC events and meet people
1054
00:49:27.739 --> 00:49:32.159
and talk to people. And it's so hard though, because
1055
00:49:32.179 --> 00:49:35.219
it's not my skill set. I failed math three times.
1056
00:49:35.780 --> 00:49:39.079
I also think that we have this problem with seeing
1057
00:49:40.219 --> 00:49:43.949
finance not as a founder specialty when actually if finance
1058
00:49:43.969 --> 00:49:46.329
is a founder specialty then there's probably not going to
1059
00:49:46.369 --> 00:49:48.550
be a lot of space for what is going to
1060
00:49:48.570 --> 00:49:51.170
make a good brand or a good product like the
1061
00:49:51.210 --> 00:49:55.050
majority of founders who hit the mark so well in
1062
00:49:55.070 --> 00:49:57.710
terms of brand and product the aim is the product
1063
00:49:57.769 --> 00:50:00.030
the aim is the brand yeah like that is not
1064
00:50:00.050 --> 00:50:01.460
a good space for them to be but obviously at
1065
00:50:01.480 --> 00:50:03.960
the beginning of the business you have to be well
1066
00:50:03.980 --> 00:50:05.780
versed in that and it's like trying to manage your
1067
00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:09.949
own budget but far more complicated with payment terms Everything
1068
00:50:10.010 --> 00:50:12.579
is determined by cash flow. You might be making a lot,
1069
00:50:12.619 --> 00:50:14.159
but actually if you don't have the cash flow to
1070
00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:15.699
be able to place the stock in time with the
1071
00:50:16.019 --> 00:50:18.199
certain payment terms, if you can't improve those payment terms
1072
00:50:18.219 --> 00:50:19.119
because you're a small player.
1073
00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:22.679
And learning that on the fly when everything's at stake.
1074
00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:25.480
Right. And I was going to say your packaging is beautiful.
1075
00:50:25.519 --> 00:50:27.440
So I can imagine the MOQs on that wouldn't have
1076
00:50:27.460 --> 00:50:28.239
been too friendly.
1077
00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:31.400
Well, I have a really great relationship with our packaging
1078
00:50:31.420 --> 00:50:35.539
supplier and luckily he cut me a deal. I batted
1079
00:50:35.559 --> 00:50:36.500
my eyelashes a little bit.
1080
00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:38.239
Well, it looks great.
1081
00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:39.500
Thank you. Thank you.
1082
00:50:40.099 --> 00:50:42.559
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on. You've
1083
00:50:42.579 --> 00:50:44.940
been incredible. I feel like this has been a lovely
1084
00:50:44.980 --> 00:50:45.920
chat to start the day.
1085
00:50:45.940 --> 00:50:48.340
I know. I feel like this has been a therapy session.
1086
00:50:48.539 --> 00:50:49.929
I feel good. Well, perfect.
1087
00:50:49.969 --> 00:50:52.949
I have no qualifications, so don't take anything from this. Oh,
1088
00:50:52.969 --> 00:50:53.710
but thank you so much.
1089
00:50:53.730 --> 00:50:54.550
Thank you so much.