Sway: working class frame rate. I'm your co-host, Hossuedana here with my co-host.
Austin Cummings: Austin.
Sway: And we're here to do OG versus remake. Episode two. We're so I'm
Austin Cummings: P
Sway: so excited for this episode. it this has been a controversial one because so many people have told me up and down, film browse way, film browse way, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, it's pretty good. It's really good, it's really good. So I walked into this OG versus remake with high expectations because our listeners who might be new listeners, don't remember or might not know, me and you watched. A 16 millimeter print of this movie last summer. We're about a year out from this now. And the 16mm print was
Austin Cummings: Beautiful. Yeah. Free to cinema.
Sway: an original cut from the 1970s, what, 1979, 1974, or something like that?
Austin Cummings: Like four.
Sway: Yeah. And 1970s original 16 millimeter print cut. All the colors were washed out. This shit looked so grimy, so dirty. And it made for Such a crazy experience. I couldn't believe what I was watching so approaching this movie, now I had my boy Zayn. Shout out Zayn. My boy Zayn let me borrow his Blu-ray copy, and I was able to see this in its glory. Remastered for the Blu-ray. Not the 4K, but the Blu-ray. And I was left in awe. And there's so much to talk about here with this movie. I'm really, really excited. Austin, I don't know if you have some words to say 'cause I know you are you are a defender of the remake. You love the remake and you know, obviously that could change now.
Austin Cummings: Enjoy the remake.
Sway: You know, that could change a little bit now. We've rewatched it.
Austin Cummings: Yeah. Yeah, you'll see, maybe who knows? Maybe I'll like, Fuck off Toby Hooper, Marcus Niespel was the real director in this scenario, you know?
Sway: Dude. And apparently the cinematographer for the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the OG, is the same cinematographer for the remake. Is that correct? I'm actually looking at the letterbox right now, and Daniel Pearl not only did the Texas Chainsaw Massacre Cinematography OG and he did the 2003 remake, but he also did the Friday the thirteenth remake, and he also did the boy, and he also shot Aliens vs. Predator Requiem. What a f
Austin Cummings: What a dog shit run. That's nuts. Well, you know, that's I guess it's like Dean Yeah, no
Sway: not too much on T CM though. Not too much on TCM though.
Austin Cummings: i it's like finding out Dean Cundy shot John Carpenter's the thing and he also shot Jack and Jill with Adam Sandler.
Sway: He also shot Mariah Carey's Merry Christmas to All.
Austin Cummings: Ha ha ha ha
Sway: and George George Michael live in London. No no no no no but And I guess he shot this movie called he shot this movie called The Obama effect which is this just like a tear, but it's like
Austin Cummings: What? What?
Sway: this is one of the most interesting filmographies I've seen in a while. He also shot a return to Salem's Lot, which is directed by Larry Cohen.
Austin Cummings: Okay. You did a Larry Cohen film. That okay, this is actually genius. I love what that.
Sway: He also shot invaders from Mars 1986 by Toby Hooper. He re ignite he reunited and he did the
Austin Cummings: Uhhuh. Okay.
Sway: intruder in twenty nineteen with Dion Taylor. don't know who any of
Austin Cummings: Okay.
Sway: this it's it's got Michael Early. Do you know who Michael Early is? Michael Early Michael Early he's
Austin Cummings: Michael's early.
Sway: Bruh, I'm gonna intrude in your home and give you a spanking because you made me you made me watch
Austin Cummings: Dude they just they intruded in Leatherface's home.
Sway: this these movies back to back. And I'm very curious. Okay. The plot of the original, right? Group of teenagers
Austin Cummings: Yes.
Sway: traveling across the country. So you can tell us a little bit about the plot lines for both movies. The Tyson Chainsaw Massacre, the
Austin Cummings: Okay.
Sway: original plot line. What are we what are we working with with the original?
Austin Cummings: Specifically the first film, the seventy-four original, is four people going to claim a piece of property in the countryside of Texas. So the grandfather
Sway: Gotcha.
Austin Cummings: passes away, they're showing up, it's theirs. The remake is four teenagers going from Mexico across state lines to a concert. So they are on the way to a a jam in the seventies with some illegal weed.
Sway: Right, right. that's that's so we have two different plot lines. I don't think that they're extremely different. Like there's not enough to warrant a different vision. although in the remake
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: they decide to incorporate smuggling drugs as a core plot point, which I felt to be so ridiculous,
Austin Cummings: Yes.
Sway: like completely unnecessary to the story, but Sure, I guess it's just to be like these these teenagers are smoking pot and they're selling it.
Austin Cummings: Yes.
Sway: I felt it to be super irrelevant. With the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, it feels like a much more grounded story because you don't need these teenagers to have this insane backstory. You just need to have
Austin Cummings: Not at all.
Sway: them have chemistry. You know, a complaint that I hear a lot from the Texas Chinesewoman Massacre is that the dialogue is ass. They can't stand these characters. And it's I'm a substitute teacher. I work with teenagers. Brother, I hear how these people talk, It's not that far off. And this was one of the things that stood out to me when I watched it the first time and even the second time. They're so real. Like I've heard these conversations. I've been on road trips where we argue about dumb shit. We're passing the time. We're talking about dumb shit. Like we you might see a random hitchhiker, maybe not as often as it was before, but you know, it's just little shit like that. And I just really love the chemistry between the friend group. And although they were dumb as fuck for picking up that hitchhiker in the first one, I will say
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: that the that the story and at least what unfolds in the remake. Is a lot more jarring and a lot crazier. I think I like them for different reasons and I in terms of what happens with the hitchhiker.
Austin Cummings: I concur.
Sway: now pulling out a gun out of your pussy and blowing your brains out is
Austin Cummings: You should smooth off.
Sway: diabolical and obviously extreme it's much more traumatic than a dude cutting his fucking palm open and trying to attack the gang, you know.
Austin Cummings: I I I To be fair, that scene with that hitchhiker in the original is really unnerving. the difference is like the original to me is unnerving where the remake is just explosive. Like it it's just like this you've been hit with this anvil on your head where the original Texas Chainsaw to me feels more of like a descent where it you see this sort of sunbaked countryside Texas looks beautiful, and then as you get deeper and deeper towards this house, it just just sort of unravels into this like Francis Bacon esque nightmare.
Sway: I honestly agree with you. I think that the the nature of the guy who's the hitchhiker in the beginning, who we later find out to be a part of the family, his entire demeanor and the way that he's acting makes you feel unsettled and not in a natural way. You're just like, you know he's weird, you don't trust
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: him, but it's like in the remake where it's like this. This girl's like looks like she's possessed in these frantic cuts and she's not talking and you're like, Am I watching a possession movie? What the fuck is going on? Dude.
Austin Cummings: Yeah. She's like, Don't go that way She's like, Don't go back that way And it's just like What what's happening to you? Like
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: Whereas like the OG hitchhiker is like it's kind of like when you're have you ever been to like a public place and someone enters the place and your intuition has like a red flag go off, but you don't have like the critical evidence to support it yet, but you're like, someone feels off. And then they
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: finally do something where you're like, I knew it, you know what I mean? Where it's like,
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: I see that hitchhiker, he gets in there, he looks musty as fuck. He's got like tinfoil on him, I'm like, Someone's tweaking here. And then he he lights the powder on fire and starts cutting his hand and I'm like, yep, yep, he's tweaking. He's tweaking. Get him out.
Sway: And and I love I love that he he does these small actions because it's like it
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
Sway: it it is so unique to his character. Like it's unnerving, it's weird. I don't think I've seen someone like just smooth just cut like open their palm. We've seen wrists, we've seen, you know, arms, but the opening of the palm and the lining of the of the photo, it's just like you're weird. And it's so unnerving because it's just like he's not doing anything like s like super evil. It's just weird.
Austin Cummings: to compound upon what you're trying to say I think what's really good about that scene in the original is it's very realistic in the fact that you don't kind of know what to do because this guy just cut his palm open. So you're like, I don't want to be the guy to be like, get out of my van, because like who the fuck knows what he's gonna do. he takes a picture of Franklin. Franklin and he just goes, he's like he's like, all right, that'll be like fifty cents. He's like, I took the picture. It's clean. And and Franklin's like, What the fuck? Like I don't want to
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: give you fifty cents and he's like, no, give me fifty cents. Like what is this guy's fucking deal?
Sway: Dude, the entire interaction, they they start to feel more and more uncomfortable, and I just love the way that it's set up. I mean, there's just there is a skill to the filmmaking that is happening that I that
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
Sway: I just can't praise this movie enough, and that leads us into our segment, Director's Intention here, right? So I think with the director's
Austin Cummings: Yes.
Sway: intention with Texas Chainsaw Massacre is really setting up this atmosphere and And carrying this mustiness, this this feeling of unsettledness that is is the movie. There is so many elements of this movie that make you feel unsettled, and it's not because of the gratuitous over-the-top gore or violence, and there is plenty of it. It is because of the environment in which they are in. And even the the characters that we have slowly started to get to know in the movie. With the remake, the remake I feel like is way more reliant on shock value. And they
Austin Cummings: Yes.
Sway: it seems like the director's only interested on thinking about how harder they can go in terms of the gore and the violence, which I I think that it It works in some respects. in other respects I don't think it works. because I think the director's intention again seems to be just the violence. And we get one of the most gnarliest shots in in film history. May maybe film history? Is that is that a search to say? it it
Austin Cummings: No, it's that'd say it's it's canon.
Sway: a sh a shot straight through the dome and the camera goes through the head and out the fucking back of the car. as they scream and look. I mean it it
Austin Cummings: The whole
Sway: is it is an incredible shot, but unfortunately it is the best shot of the movie. And I mean it's why this this I feel like this remake gets talked a lot because of that shot and some of the violence. but everyone always talks about that one shot because it is a great shot and that moment is really fucking crazy. But unfortunately I didn't really like a lot of the camera work that proceeded after that. And just the look and atmosphere never really fully sold it to me. It definitely was stinky. It definitely was musty. And that basement was disgusting. Disgusting. But I think
Austin Cummings: Still water basement.
Sway: yeah, and I think what really makes the the first one stand out to me is the performances. And that leads us to our segment for the cast. The cast in the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre, granted, they're not giving Oscar worthy performances, but it is really reliant on Marilyn Burns. our final girl, our scream queen, Marilyn Burns, who I think is doing such a fucking fantastic job. I enjoyed the entire crew, even though I guess a lot of people really fucking hate what what's his name?
Austin Cummings: Franklin.
Sway: Franklin. People hate Franklin, right? Like I
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: think that's ableism. I think that's ableism. If you hate on Franklin, I think that's ableism. 'Cause
Austin Cummings: Yeah. Dude, if you hate Franklin, you ain't down for the cause.
Sway: Franklin was like a chill guy. He he just he was like just frustrated 'cause he couldn't fucking move, bro. Like he couldn't move as fast as his gang.
Austin Cummings: Yeah. In the worst position in that film too. As like a man who is disabled and it's like a hundred fucking degrees in Texas and you're just like scared.
Sway: It's terrible and and his he has such a a want to help and he wants to like be with the gang and he also just wants to figure out where his friends are at. I fell for him. I fell for him in his desperation to try to see where his homies were. so I had no problem I had no problem with Franklin at all. I think Franklin's great. of course Marilyn Burns is the standout here because That third act is reliant on her screams, on her fear. and of course, this is a combination of everything that has built up the house itself, is a character, the interior of the house, and of course, Leatherface. Mr. Gunner Han
Austin Cummings: Gunnar Hansen.
Sway: Gunnar Hansen. Gunnar Hansen as Leatherface it is such a big figure, and the way that he runs is unbelievable. Him and Marilyn Burns working together, unfucking real. some of the scariest chase scenes I've ever seen on film. And to know that this is a defining slasher for the genre, it's completely understandable. And I see it immediately. Marilyn Burns is screaming her ass off for like a solid 20 minutes. It doesn't stop. And her fear is so unnerving. I genuinely, even as I'm rewatching, I'm like, bro, how much of this was actually shot practical? Like, I was getting worried for her. Like, even as an ac like in real life as an actor, I was like, Is she okay? Like, is everything all good? Cause she sells it and it's so fucking good. It's so unnerving. it's crazy that a movie that it defined an entire subgenre of horror with slashers is still
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: Unnerving, it still holds up to this day, and I think is such a monumental piece of not only horror but film history. And I think it's fantastic. And to be
Austin Cummings: Absolutely.
Sway: able to do that you gotta be bringing something to the table, you know? And I want to ask you, how do you feel about the cast for the Texas Chainsaw Massacre? And what what are your stand at?
Austin Cummings: Well, I think it goes back to director's intention where you know, for me, Toby Hooper's intention was to sort of take the complacency you feel in an environment that you recognize and weaponize it. And I think it works especially for the fact that he takes I guess the sort of iconography of rural lifestyles, you know, like all the junk in the yard, all the dilapidated housing. And even like for me, the house that they go to, the one that they inherit. Inherited from their grandfather, I think is the ultimate symbol of the film, where outside of the beautiful, vast architecture is this empty, rotten core with a black ball of spiders where a heart should be. And the idea
Sway: Hm. yeah.
Austin Cummings: for me in the original is that, you know, I sort of see it as almost like in a in a way like a backroom scenario where you have entered this region, this realm, and the way they even structure it is almost mythological, you know. Go down the trail between the two sheds and see where it leads. And they enter
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: Leatherface's house and it literally feels like by accident. They just stumble into this house and it's this slaughterhouse. The entire project to me just felt like this really alien situation where you are just at the mercy of these detached demonic human beings that have abandoned their humanity long ago. And which is symbolic of the time period. You know, you had Vietnam where you had men leaving their comfortable suburbs and going into these brand new forests and and also doing things to people that l was akin to Leatherface. And
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: i I just think it's this almost like force of nature that enters your life and it's this quintessential horror film paired with that droning score and to circle it back to that cast, the realism of that cast just adds to it where they feel like real people, you know? Even if you're all friends, you have those little moments where you bicker. You have those little moments where you sort of chuckle and you kind of shrug off whatever you just experienced. it it's just this really small scale personal horror film that just dives into the macabre. And I think that last twenty minutes, or you mentioned that long chase, which by the way, whole thing's real. Everything you th think happened in that film, the real injuries, blah blah blah, happened. So that tension and that sort of like ratcheting sense of ominous dread is just baked into the fabric of it. And I think it's a masterpiece. I think it's one of those films that will stand the test of time. I I think the standouts are quite frankly Gunnar Hansen, Marilyn Burns, and f and Franklin. Franklin, I'll get out the way. Franklin is literally doing a bit. And I think one of the funniest stories ever is that on set, Toby Hooper met him years later after the movie, and he was a completely different person. And he went, that's not you. Like that's that was the character. And he's 'cause he stayed in Franklin's character on and off set. So
Sway: Wow.
Austin Cummings: he didn't and so they thought that was just how he was. And then years later he went,
Sway: What the fuck?
Austin Cummings: I'm just and years later he like I'm fucking. With you. That was a bit. And then Gunnar Hansen, and I specifically before I get to Marilyn Burns, because I think she's the standout, but Gunnar Hansen, I think his portrayal of Leatherface is really, really unique because I think it's an interesting take on a serial killer because there's a lot of insinuations that Leatherface is mentally disabled. He's not fully there. And I think the scene that really captivated me and sort of I guess just made me. ruminate on the layers to Leatherface was when he kills the second guy, Jerry, he runs and hits him in the head. He starts running around the living room almost like a like a befuddled child. Like he's like, and then he sits down and there's this long close-up that just sits on him and he's sort of sitting there. His eyes are kind of wandering with his tongue hanging out of his mouth. And it becomes even more nauseating to me because you kind of just realize this is like akin to like someone with I don't know, like autism or disability where they don't even maybe perceive that they're committing these atrocities. So for him to sort of bring that dynamic to the table, that flavor to the character in a way I haven't seen with many others, outstanding. That was great. And Marilyn Burns is just I think she's the number one scream creator of all time. I don't give a fuck. Jamie Lee Curtis, Marilyn Curtis, or whatever her name is from Psycho, I think all of them pale in comparison to the sweaty.
Sway: Yeah. Yeah. unbelievable. Yeah, no, I mean and now we switch over to the two thousand three and the remake. And I gotta be honest with you, th I wasn't a fan of most of this
Austin Cummings: Dude.
Sway: performance. entire movie is contingent on Jessica Beale's performance and how good she looks, right? Like that's what everyone talks about. She she looks fantastic in this movie. But like I Yeah,
Austin Cummings: I was gonna say I think that's the only contingency is how good she looks.
Sway: she looks great. I mean, her performance is again, I don't think it's like it's a major standout, but she's definitely doing a lot of heavy lifting. For everyone involved, I could not stand Jonathan Tucker's performance at all.
Austin Cummings: No.
Sway: I've seen better fuckboy performances. Like you could tell he's like very much of a player fuckboy character. I wasn't f like they
Austin Cummings: Maybe.
Sway: they should have at least made him more detestable because I just felt like I just I I didn't like I didn't want to see him on screen at all. And I
Austin Cummings: No.
Sway: I I was just not a fan of this this cast entirely. I also think that Leatherface in this movie I don't see much characteristics of him. at times he just comes in, commits violence and dips. There is no sense of characteristics to Leatherface in this movie, which I found to be frankly disappointing, you know?
Austin Cummings: No, I I think they stripped him of all traits that could be personal or even, differentiating from the pack because like Leatherface to me is just like a big guy in this. And then also they do the Cardinal Sin. They take his mask off. And and one of the things I loved about the original was how faceless Leatherface is. He wears faces, but you don't know the true face. And they totally demystify everything about Leatherface. And that cast sucks. I'm gonna say this right now. This was one of the worst first opening 15 minutes I've ever had to read. Visit in so long. I and I felt so bad. Cause to tell the to give our audience some context, I was the one kind of being the sort of white knight for this film where I was like, no, no, no, no, it's fun. And then the first 15 minutes happen and I look over at Hosway's face and he's not buying it. And I'm not buying it either, because it sucks. The dialogue and the the performances in this suck. And it doesn't help that Part of Marcus Niespel's vision is I want to make a cool music video with big scary monster, some dope sets, and then a woman running around in a wet t-shirt. And that's the layer of characters you get out of these people.
Sway: I found this to be just lacking in the acting department. And even more so,
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: What makes Texas Chainsaw OG nineteen seventy four works so well is the sound design and the score and the the lack of use of it sometimes when it goes silent and it just lets us sit in these fields as they walk around or as they drive around in their car. Whereas the the score and the soundtrack for 2003 is so forgettable. I cannot tell you
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: much of the sound for this movie other than just the generic scary music ambiance that they add to every scary movie ever. I felt more disgust looking at the basement of the 2003's movies. basement. I thought that basement was done really well. The production design and value was amazing. I think it looks really good in terms of making me feel disgust. but I never felt like I feared for my life. It just felt like it was there. but I you know I can't go without saying about the sound design again. The composers for the Texas Chainsaw Massacre is Wayne Bell and Toby Hooper. They Toby Hooper actually helped out with the soundtrack as well as the sound design for this movie. With Wayne Bell being the main guy for the sound. And again, the sound design in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre is fantastic. Where I feel like there is almost no usage of sound design in the remake that really allow the movie to stand on its own two legs or make it different or even make it stand out at all. What I do think that works for 2003's remakes is the slow-mo sequences do end up adding a little bit more flavor, but it's really just like it's as if you haven't eaten in days and they offered you a burger from McDonald's. It's gonna slap. You know, it's gonna s it's gonna hit because you're hungry. When there's nothing being offered to you, the small little things that maybe could have worked in a better movie are are somewhat enjoyable.
Austin Cummings: No, yeah. And I think to your point about the score, I think the score also Heightens the spontaneity of the original, where it's not really a traditional score where there's like strings necessarily, it's like all these different elements colliding, almost like pots and pans at times, smashing, and there's like strings. And I think about how they apply it in the original. Like, for example, one of my favorite moments in the original is when she runs up the stairs. It's like that first big chase after Leatherface kills Franklin, and she runs up the stairs and she finds the grandma. and the grandpa in the attic and she just runs in there and the score just like ding ding Like it just kind of goes off, and you're like, what the fuck? You're like disoriented. And then you go to that 2003 one and it's just like and it's just like, okay, like my dad put on his Rommstein CD, and it
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: it's like cool, I guess. Well, and and I think that the only thing that really felt authentically cool to me was like you said, the set design. Cause I did kind of like the universal horror nights kind of vibe, where like it's like this big, maze in the basement, and I thought it looked palpably disgusting. Disgusting. And it doesn't help that Arlie Ermi, who by the way is the best part of this film, is standing in the living room at all times in the grossest looking wife beater in underpants I've ever seen. So the it th in terms of like being grotesque, it does work, but like that's kind of it to me. It's it's very empty.
Sway: Yeah, even the entire interaction between the cop and the character when they're in the van, they were like,
Austin Cummings: Way too long.
Sway: Dude, yeah, I was like, All right, bro, this is just this is so cringe. I I
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: I wasn't feeling it at all. It was meant to be like, Is he gonna kill himself or
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: is the cop gonna kill like get the fuck out of here, man. It's just
Austin Cummings: And and it flirts with being dangerous too. Like he like he's like, was it like this? And he makes him put the gun in his mouth. I'm like, that's kinda fucked up. But then it chickens out. So it's like, what the fuck are we doing here? Like, g come on. Stop edging me. This is like weird cop edging porn. Like, get me out of here, bruh. Like get me out of here. Like
Sway: Yeah. I think you made a good point with the with the soundtrack. this feels like very much like a divorce dad horror movie. Like who understands
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: absolutely nothing. He learned nothing from his marriage. He thinks that he's the victim and he's like,
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: okay, what if I like the women who run in the naked T shirt and and I see titties and it's it's violent and
Austin Cummings: He he's like stupid wife. Of course I brought illegal weed over the border. What are you, fucking pussy? Like shut up. Like we're going to a concert.
Sway: Yeah yeah. Dude. It it it's giving that too and there's there's no there's no substance to the movie. I do again, the production design in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the way that they have all these feathers and these bones laid out at Leatherface's house, at the house where they they're smashing up everyone, is
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
Sway: so disgusting and it struck me as so much more Nasty, I I I would argue, because I was thinking back to watching the remake and not watching the original and I was looking at all these bones because there's so much bones and there's so much feathers, and I thought to myself, how nasty must that place be? Like genuinely like
Austin Cummings: unfiltered, filthy, like Well and you what's too? There's all the if you notice, I cause I know you notice this, you sick little man, there there is a there's a lot of little shrunken heads and there's like lots of little
Sway: Yes.
Austin Cummings: like mannequins. Like you can tell they took bones from humans and made like little creatures out of them. And
Sway: Right.
Austin Cummings: and and I think that there's a level of depravity in the original, especially with that scene where like the the father arrives, in the original Father Sawyer, when he shows up and they're almost like running around. like kids, the brother and Leatherface and the d and he's just like, god damn it, and he's like hitting him with the fucking stick, like it like a dad. I was like,
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: this is like a really like hellish family. Like, you know, they're just evil. and and you can
Sway: Yeah and
Austin Cummings: and and the complacency of it too where like you feel like this rural area's just been rotting. a lot of the original to me feels like there's a lot of what makes me so fearful and makes it so spontaneous the spontaneous, excuse me, is this idea that there's no rhyme or reason. And I think what makes that original so interesting, especially with that house, is like you can just tell there's something so impulsive about its layout where like you'll go in a room and it's like why the fuck is that body in the corner? And it's literally like someone threw it there and they just Just didn't think about it ever again and let it rot, you know?
Sway: Yeah, I fully agree. Even when we first enter the house, again, it's all these little things that really make almost your imagination kind of wander and fill in the blanks. Whereas the remake says, We're gonna show you everything and we're gonna we're gonna bring you into this atmosphere and just do gore and gratuity And what I really love about the Texas Shangsa Massacre, the original Is that these bones, these feathers and the musk of the house, leaves for a lot of room for your imagination to be like, where did they get these bones? How bad does this
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: place smell? Where whose feathers are these? Are they killing animals and humans? What the fuck is going on? And then there's a lamp in the dining room that is like of faces, which I found to be so sick, so depraved, but also so cool. And I also love that we don't really get to see Leatherface's room until like later on in the movie. And even then we don't really get a layout of it. It feels like his temple and a temple that we are not allowed in, and we only see moments of it. It feels
Austin Cummings: It's a layer of hell.
Sway: it's a yeah, it's it's it's depraved. As opposed to the 2003's layer, the basement, Leatherface's basement, is definitely sick and disgusting.
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: but there's no like extra layer to Leatherface or who we don't really understand who he is at all, which makes it just kind of feel empty and disgusting for no other reason than just just do that. Which again I think a movie can
Austin Cummings: Yeah
Sway: be that, like especially when you're dealing with horror, like a movie can just be like fun, disgusting kills. but I think if you're gonna
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
Sway: offer that up to an audience, then you've gotta commit all the way. You've gotta go all the way. also you gotta cut out some of that fat. And I feel like there's a lot of fat in the two thousand three remake that I genuinely don't I don't
Austin Cummings: Mm.
Sway: like. I didn't appreciate. I didn't like the elongated ending to this movie and extending like her escaping, I was not a fan of. yeah.
Austin Cummings: Really stupid in execution too. There's so many this movie because you know what sucks? This the 2003 Final Chase does that stupid trope, that weird quirk a lot of those remakes like to do, where Leatherface like finds them and they're like, because you they're like, I've been captured. And then like through the sheerest like concoction of luck, they just somehow escape. And it's like, okay, this is a guy who's apparently ran like his own personal slaughterhouse. Why is he
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: so fucking bad? Whereas in the original, there's that quirk of him being mentally disabled and kind of just being like an overgrown child to a degree. So when
Sway: Mm.
Austin Cummings: he's stumbling around and he's like getting his chainsaw stuck indoors and he's like, like It's it's terrifying because you're just like, he doesn't he's he's just like this uncontrolled weapon. Like he doesn't know what he's doing or like and and there's that unpredictability, you know, because you don't
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: know what he's gonna do. You d he don't know how much he understands. And in the remake, it's like he's too proficient, he's too calculated, and it's like that's not Leatherface. That's like Michael Myers, you know, the slow walking and marauding. Leatherface is a loud, sporadic monster. You know what I mean?
Sway: And we go back to intentions, right? I wanna go back because I think this is going to be a
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
Sway: driving force through all of our OG vs. remake videos.
Austin Cummings: Mm.
Sway: What is the director intending? Because I always approach it. If you're going to do something new with the character, I wanna see your reasoning. I wanna understand why you would do such a thing, right?
Austin Cummings: Yes.
Sway: So we understand that Leatherface in the original i it appears as though he does have some type of mental disability and in the remake he's a lot more calculated. He's a cold killer. Why? You know, that's where
Austin Cummings: Mm. Yeah.
Sway: I like if you want to do that, by all means. I I I am not married to an idea, to a character, especially when you're doing your remake. I want
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
Sway: to see your vision and understand why. Unfortunately for me, the remake and this director's vision for the remake is frankly It's horrible. It's horrible.
Austin Cummings: Buns.
Sway: I I don't see the vision. even in the execution for this to be a much more disgusting and and gore fest movie with no real sort of substance at all. I it just does not land with me and it really does feel like this director was given the keys to do the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and he saw it, he was like, What if I just like did it again but like in slow motion and a like
Austin Cummings: Just there's no thoughts.
Sway: It's like Yeah, just no thoughts and it's like he's just throwing shit at the wall and
Austin Cummings: Well, even what is different, like Arly Ermi. Like that whole portion of the film that's about like the 'cause I thought that was an interesting idea, like the armed wing of the state cops supporting their community, the community in question being evil, because you know, you could say it's also like a great symbol. It's like of course the violent wing is supporting a a violent patriarchy. And it doesn't even explore that. And I think I'd be more forgiving of the new direction if I felt like it was thoughtful. I mean, I think of like here, I'll give you a great little tidbit. You know how in the original they talk about Saturn being in retrograde?
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: You know what that means? In context to the movie.
Sway: No, no. Inform me.
Austin Cummings: it it's spiritually it's kind of an iron it's I think it's kind of funny. It's about structural adjustment and what is the structural adjustment happening in Texas Chainsaw? a structurally sound and safe life adjusting into complete hell. You know what
Sway: Mm.
Austin Cummings: I mean? So I like little stuff like that that you know, I'm like, you can tell this director was thinking about that or thinking about this. And then you watch like the 2003 one and it's like you can tell the two thoughts he had was Camera's gonna go through gun hole and
Sway: Right.
Austin Cummings: when Leatherface shows up with her boyfriend's face on, he's gonna turn in slow mo and give us a really cool medium shot, which is cool. And that's where the thoughts end, you know?
Sway: Yeah. I I was left really disappointed, but listen, my favorite standout moment from the original movie has to be those eye shots. I adored
Austin Cummings: Yes.
Sway: those eye shots so much and just this constant state of yelling and paranoia and the laughing. Dude, it felt so claustrophobic. It felt like too much and it it elicited such a physical reaction out of me when I was watching it and this is again my second time. And again, it's an older movie. You know, this is it holds up and I think that moment was when I was like, This is a masterpiece, dude. This is a guy who knew what the fuck he was doing and I fell in love with it. what is what is your stand up moment?
Austin Cummings: My standout moment in the original Would have to be that entire first kill. Like the literal first time we ever meet Leatherface and he just comes out of the back of the house. And I think
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: it's it's really a profound moment in or a profound, excuse me, execution in editing and sound design. I love how in the original, instead of allowing the music to insinuate there's this is a pressure cooker moment, scenes will just happen. And the sound in the scene and the and the Depth perception too of sounds getting closer, like the chainsaw or the going away. He allows that sound design with the occasional bump of that really sort of experimental score to sort of just incite so much shock and just that that that needle drop moment of like well, I love that shot where he trips. And he kind of falls forward and then all of a sudden Leatherface comes out and you hear that pig noise. And he just like hits him. Brilliant. It's just it's great. It's awesome. It's so good.
Sway: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I I mean for the remake center moment, I mean it goes without saying it's gotta h go to that headshot. The headshot is is just fucking incredible. Like that light the gun hole the gun hole shot is so
Austin Cummings: The gun hole? You like the gun hole? I like the gun hole.
Sway: cool. I think it's a standout moment. Unfortunately
Austin Cummings: Here I'll
Sway: that's where most of the juice went and it doesn't go anywhere else throughout the whole movie.
Austin Cummings: Yeah. I'll give you one moment of juice that I thought was kind of cool. I think that first time Leatherface shows up, and not when he actually shows up and opens the door. They recreate that piss poor. But There he's chasing the guy across the like field and there's like hanging laundry and the way Leatherface is like bursting through the laundry and you don't see him you see everything going to the side because he's running through it and you see the smoke rising I thought that was cool. That was cool. It was nice. I I thousand three
Sway: That's pretty good. Yeah, I mean I I I wish I enjoyed the remake at least as much as everybody else did, but I gotta say it just kind of falls super flat for me. I
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: don't see what everyone else is seeing. The Texas Chainsaw Massacre original is su is a is a masterpiece in my opinion.
Austin Cummings: It's flawless.
Sway: and I can perfectly understand why this has, you know, defined the slasher genre and you can see its influence everywhere. The chase scenes being actual running sequences, people are not jogging. That
Austin Cummings: No.
Sway: sends fear throughout my body to know he is going full steam and she's running for a life. That is just unreal. It's it the magic is still there. This is a timeless horror movie. an incredible first shot, incredible makeup and design from that caricature that we see in the beginning. Just so much to love about this movie. I obviously am going to take the original over the remake. That's
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: my takeaway, Austin. What are your takeaways from this movie? Or from both of these?
Austin Cummings: So Marcus Niespel's masterpiece in 2003, no, I'm just kidding. I
Sway: Right.
Austin Cummings: I mean, OG for me. But let me tell you something. like Texas Chainsaw Massacre would be a magnum opus in most directors' filmographies. And Toby Hooper is such a good director that it's only his first film. That's nuts. He has other magnum opuses. That's nuts. And I think Texas Chainsaw Massacre is a portrait of terror that is so finely tuned and crafted in every category sound design, acting, color grading, cinematography, blocking, masterful. There are horror films that have strived for more, there are horror films that have strived for less, and somehow this small little film from nineteen seventy four defeats all of them. I think it's a timeless masterpiece that I have watched more times than I can count.
Sway: Yeah, a hundred percent agree. Listen, I'm excited to get to our next one. I want to announce it. If you've stuck around for this episode, can't thank y'all enough. We will be covering next. I'm super excited for this one. It's Suspiria versus Suspiria. Suspiria is one of my favorite Jala
Austin Cummings: Yes.
Sway: movies of all time. Luca Guadanino is one of my favorite filmmakers of all time. And I cannot fucking wait to watch these movies. rewatch Suspiria, but now
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
Sway: Finally get to Susperia remake, which I'm really, really excited about. Looks very different, but that's gonna be I talked to them. I'm I'm
Austin Cummings: Let me let me tell you something. It's gonna be our most contentious review yet, 'cause I might not actually side with the original. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll we'll see.
Sway: Okay. It's totally fine. That's totally fine. We'll see. We'll have to see. We'll have to say listen. Hostway film brosway here with my boy Austin. I just got accepted to to TIFF and I'm really excited to represent the working class frame rate in Canada. If you're listening to this episode and
Austin Cummings: Soon.
Sway: you wanna support my trip, my GoFundMe will be in my bio. we'll we'll throw it onto the YouTube. If anybody wants to help your boy out, I will go Greatly, greatly, greatly appreciate it.
Austin Cummings: Give this man money. Like.
Sway: I really appreciate it, guys. But regardless, the content's still coming. The the the the good
Austin Cummings: It's coming.
Sway: stuff's still coming. And I promise you, Halloween is going to be our best month ever, brother. Alright, I love you guys. Yes, it's gonna be amazing. Filmbro Sway,
Austin Cummings: Dude, I'm amazing. Love you.
Sway: hostway Ariano, your co host here on the Working Class Remy with my co host. And we'll catch you all the next one. Sorry,
Austin Cummings: Austin. Say no.
Austin Cummings: Austin.
Sway: And we're here to do OG versus remake. Episode two. We're so I'm
Austin Cummings: P
Sway: so excited for this episode. it this has been a controversial one because so many people have told me up and down, film browse way, film browse way, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, it's pretty good. It's really good, it's really good. So I walked into this OG versus remake with high expectations because our listeners who might be new listeners, don't remember or might not know, me and you watched. A 16 millimeter print of this movie last summer. We're about a year out from this now. And the 16mm print was
Austin Cummings: Beautiful. Yeah. Free to cinema.
Sway: an original cut from the 1970s, what, 1979, 1974, or something like that?
Austin Cummings: Like four.
Sway: Yeah. And 1970s original 16 millimeter print cut. All the colors were washed out. This shit looked so grimy, so dirty. And it made for Such a crazy experience. I couldn't believe what I was watching so approaching this movie, now I had my boy Zayn. Shout out Zayn. My boy Zayn let me borrow his Blu-ray copy, and I was able to see this in its glory. Remastered for the Blu-ray. Not the 4K, but the Blu-ray. And I was left in awe. And there's so much to talk about here with this movie. I'm really, really excited. Austin, I don't know if you have some words to say 'cause I know you are you are a defender of the remake. You love the remake and you know, obviously that could change now.
Austin Cummings: Enjoy the remake.
Sway: You know, that could change a little bit now. We've rewatched it.
Austin Cummings: Yeah. Yeah, you'll see, maybe who knows? Maybe I'll like, Fuck off Toby Hooper, Marcus Niespel was the real director in this scenario, you know?
Sway: Dude. And apparently the cinematographer for the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the OG, is the same cinematographer for the remake. Is that correct? I'm actually looking at the letterbox right now, and Daniel Pearl not only did the Texas Chainsaw Massacre Cinematography OG and he did the 2003 remake, but he also did the Friday the thirteenth remake, and he also did the boy, and he also shot Aliens vs. Predator Requiem. What a f
Austin Cummings: What a dog shit run. That's nuts. Well, you know, that's I guess it's like Dean Yeah, no
Sway: not too much on T CM though. Not too much on TCM though.
Austin Cummings: i it's like finding out Dean Cundy shot John Carpenter's the thing and he also shot Jack and Jill with Adam Sandler.
Sway: He also shot Mariah Carey's Merry Christmas to All.
Austin Cummings: Ha ha ha ha
Sway: and George George Michael live in London. No no no no no but And I guess he shot this movie called he shot this movie called The Obama effect which is this just like a tear, but it's like
Austin Cummings: What? What?
Sway: this is one of the most interesting filmographies I've seen in a while. He also shot a return to Salem's Lot, which is directed by Larry Cohen.
Austin Cummings: Okay. You did a Larry Cohen film. That okay, this is actually genius. I love what that.
Sway: He also shot invaders from Mars 1986 by Toby Hooper. He re ignite he reunited and he did the
Austin Cummings: Uhhuh. Okay.
Sway: intruder in twenty nineteen with Dion Taylor. don't know who any of
Austin Cummings: Okay.
Sway: this it's it's got Michael Early. Do you know who Michael Early is? Michael Early Michael Early he's
Austin Cummings: Michael's early.
Sway: Bruh, I'm gonna intrude in your home and give you a spanking because you made me you made me watch
Austin Cummings: Dude they just they intruded in Leatherface's home.
Sway: this these movies back to back. And I'm very curious. Okay. The plot of the original, right? Group of teenagers
Austin Cummings: Yes.
Sway: traveling across the country. So you can tell us a little bit about the plot lines for both movies. The Tyson Chainsaw Massacre, the
Austin Cummings: Okay.
Sway: original plot line. What are we what are we working with with the original?
Austin Cummings: Specifically the first film, the seventy-four original, is four people going to claim a piece of property in the countryside of Texas. So the grandfather
Sway: Gotcha.
Austin Cummings: passes away, they're showing up, it's theirs. The remake is four teenagers going from Mexico across state lines to a concert. So they are on the way to a a jam in the seventies with some illegal weed.
Sway: Right, right. that's that's so we have two different plot lines. I don't think that they're extremely different. Like there's not enough to warrant a different vision. although in the remake
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: they decide to incorporate smuggling drugs as a core plot point, which I felt to be so ridiculous,
Austin Cummings: Yes.
Sway: like completely unnecessary to the story, but Sure, I guess it's just to be like these these teenagers are smoking pot and they're selling it.
Austin Cummings: Yes.
Sway: I felt it to be super irrelevant. With the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, it feels like a much more grounded story because you don't need these teenagers to have this insane backstory. You just need to have
Austin Cummings: Not at all.
Sway: them have chemistry. You know, a complaint that I hear a lot from the Texas Chinesewoman Massacre is that the dialogue is ass. They can't stand these characters. And it's I'm a substitute teacher. I work with teenagers. Brother, I hear how these people talk, It's not that far off. And this was one of the things that stood out to me when I watched it the first time and even the second time. They're so real. Like I've heard these conversations. I've been on road trips where we argue about dumb shit. We're passing the time. We're talking about dumb shit. Like we you might see a random hitchhiker, maybe not as often as it was before, but you know, it's just little shit like that. And I just really love the chemistry between the friend group. And although they were dumb as fuck for picking up that hitchhiker in the first one, I will say
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: that the that the story and at least what unfolds in the remake. Is a lot more jarring and a lot crazier. I think I like them for different reasons and I in terms of what happens with the hitchhiker.
Austin Cummings: I concur.
Sway: now pulling out a gun out of your pussy and blowing your brains out is
Austin Cummings: You should smooth off.
Sway: diabolical and obviously extreme it's much more traumatic than a dude cutting his fucking palm open and trying to attack the gang, you know.
Austin Cummings: I I I To be fair, that scene with that hitchhiker in the original is really unnerving. the difference is like the original to me is unnerving where the remake is just explosive. Like it it's just like this you've been hit with this anvil on your head where the original Texas Chainsaw to me feels more of like a descent where it you see this sort of sunbaked countryside Texas looks beautiful, and then as you get deeper and deeper towards this house, it just just sort of unravels into this like Francis Bacon esque nightmare.
Sway: I honestly agree with you. I think that the the nature of the guy who's the hitchhiker in the beginning, who we later find out to be a part of the family, his entire demeanor and the way that he's acting makes you feel unsettled and not in a natural way. You're just like, you know he's weird, you don't trust
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: him, but it's like in the remake where it's like this. This girl's like looks like she's possessed in these frantic cuts and she's not talking and you're like, Am I watching a possession movie? What the fuck is going on? Dude.
Austin Cummings: Yeah. She's like, Don't go that way She's like, Don't go back that way And it's just like What what's happening to you? Like
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: Whereas like the OG hitchhiker is like it's kind of like when you're have you ever been to like a public place and someone enters the place and your intuition has like a red flag go off, but you don't have like the critical evidence to support it yet, but you're like, someone feels off. And then they
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: finally do something where you're like, I knew it, you know what I mean? Where it's like,
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: I see that hitchhiker, he gets in there, he looks musty as fuck. He's got like tinfoil on him, I'm like, Someone's tweaking here. And then he he lights the powder on fire and starts cutting his hand and I'm like, yep, yep, he's tweaking. He's tweaking. Get him out.
Sway: And and I love I love that he he does these small actions because it's like it
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
Sway: it it is so unique to his character. Like it's unnerving, it's weird. I don't think I've seen someone like just smooth just cut like open their palm. We've seen wrists, we've seen, you know, arms, but the opening of the palm and the lining of the of the photo, it's just like you're weird. And it's so unnerving because it's just like he's not doing anything like s like super evil. It's just weird.
Austin Cummings: to compound upon what you're trying to say I think what's really good about that scene in the original is it's very realistic in the fact that you don't kind of know what to do because this guy just cut his palm open. So you're like, I don't want to be the guy to be like, get out of my van, because like who the fuck knows what he's gonna do. he takes a picture of Franklin. Franklin and he just goes, he's like he's like, all right, that'll be like fifty cents. He's like, I took the picture. It's clean. And and Franklin's like, What the fuck? Like I don't want to
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: give you fifty cents and he's like, no, give me fifty cents. Like what is this guy's fucking deal?
Sway: Dude, the entire interaction, they they start to feel more and more uncomfortable, and I just love the way that it's set up. I mean, there's just there is a skill to the filmmaking that is happening that I that
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
Sway: I just can't praise this movie enough, and that leads us into our segment, Director's Intention here, right? So I think with the director's
Austin Cummings: Yes.
Sway: intention with Texas Chainsaw Massacre is really setting up this atmosphere and And carrying this mustiness, this this feeling of unsettledness that is is the movie. There is so many elements of this movie that make you feel unsettled, and it's not because of the gratuitous over-the-top gore or violence, and there is plenty of it. It is because of the environment in which they are in. And even the the characters that we have slowly started to get to know in the movie. With the remake, the remake I feel like is way more reliant on shock value. And they
Austin Cummings: Yes.
Sway: it seems like the director's only interested on thinking about how harder they can go in terms of the gore and the violence, which I I think that it It works in some respects. in other respects I don't think it works. because I think the director's intention again seems to be just the violence. And we get one of the most gnarliest shots in in film history. May maybe film history? Is that is that a search to say? it it
Austin Cummings: No, it's that'd say it's it's canon.
Sway: a sh a shot straight through the dome and the camera goes through the head and out the fucking back of the car. as they scream and look. I mean it it
Austin Cummings: The whole
Sway: is it is an incredible shot, but unfortunately it is the best shot of the movie. And I mean it's why this this I feel like this remake gets talked a lot because of that shot and some of the violence. but everyone always talks about that one shot because it is a great shot and that moment is really fucking crazy. But unfortunately I didn't really like a lot of the camera work that proceeded after that. And just the look and atmosphere never really fully sold it to me. It definitely was stinky. It definitely was musty. And that basement was disgusting. Disgusting. But I think
Austin Cummings: Still water basement.
Sway: yeah, and I think what really makes the the first one stand out to me is the performances. And that leads us to our segment for the cast. The cast in the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre, granted, they're not giving Oscar worthy performances, but it is really reliant on Marilyn Burns. our final girl, our scream queen, Marilyn Burns, who I think is doing such a fucking fantastic job. I enjoyed the entire crew, even though I guess a lot of people really fucking hate what what's his name?
Austin Cummings: Franklin.
Sway: Franklin. People hate Franklin, right? Like I
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: think that's ableism. I think that's ableism. If you hate on Franklin, I think that's ableism. 'Cause
Austin Cummings: Yeah. Dude, if you hate Franklin, you ain't down for the cause.
Sway: Franklin was like a chill guy. He he just he was like just frustrated 'cause he couldn't fucking move, bro. Like he couldn't move as fast as his gang.
Austin Cummings: Yeah. In the worst position in that film too. As like a man who is disabled and it's like a hundred fucking degrees in Texas and you're just like scared.
Sway: It's terrible and and his he has such a a want to help and he wants to like be with the gang and he also just wants to figure out where his friends are at. I fell for him. I fell for him in his desperation to try to see where his homies were. so I had no problem I had no problem with Franklin at all. I think Franklin's great. of course Marilyn Burns is the standout here because That third act is reliant on her screams, on her fear. and of course, this is a combination of everything that has built up the house itself, is a character, the interior of the house, and of course, Leatherface. Mr. Gunner Han
Austin Cummings: Gunnar Hansen.
Sway: Gunnar Hansen. Gunnar Hansen as Leatherface it is such a big figure, and the way that he runs is unbelievable. Him and Marilyn Burns working together, unfucking real. some of the scariest chase scenes I've ever seen on film. And to know that this is a defining slasher for the genre, it's completely understandable. And I see it immediately. Marilyn Burns is screaming her ass off for like a solid 20 minutes. It doesn't stop. And her fear is so unnerving. I genuinely, even as I'm rewatching, I'm like, bro, how much of this was actually shot practical? Like, I was getting worried for her. Like, even as an ac like in real life as an actor, I was like, Is she okay? Like, is everything all good? Cause she sells it and it's so fucking good. It's so unnerving. it's crazy that a movie that it defined an entire subgenre of horror with slashers is still
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: Unnerving, it still holds up to this day, and I think is such a monumental piece of not only horror but film history. And I think it's fantastic. And to be
Austin Cummings: Absolutely.
Sway: able to do that you gotta be bringing something to the table, you know? And I want to ask you, how do you feel about the cast for the Texas Chainsaw Massacre? And what what are your stand at?
Austin Cummings: Well, I think it goes back to director's intention where you know, for me, Toby Hooper's intention was to sort of take the complacency you feel in an environment that you recognize and weaponize it. And I think it works especially for the fact that he takes I guess the sort of iconography of rural lifestyles, you know, like all the junk in the yard, all the dilapidated housing. And even like for me, the house that they go to, the one that they inherit. Inherited from their grandfather, I think is the ultimate symbol of the film, where outside of the beautiful, vast architecture is this empty, rotten core with a black ball of spiders where a heart should be. And the idea
Sway: Hm. yeah.
Austin Cummings: for me in the original is that, you know, I sort of see it as almost like in a in a way like a backroom scenario where you have entered this region, this realm, and the way they even structure it is almost mythological, you know. Go down the trail between the two sheds and see where it leads. And they enter
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: Leatherface's house and it literally feels like by accident. They just stumble into this house and it's this slaughterhouse. The entire project to me just felt like this really alien situation where you are just at the mercy of these detached demonic human beings that have abandoned their humanity long ago. And which is symbolic of the time period. You know, you had Vietnam where you had men leaving their comfortable suburbs and going into these brand new forests and and also doing things to people that l was akin to Leatherface. And
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: i I just think it's this almost like force of nature that enters your life and it's this quintessential horror film paired with that droning score and to circle it back to that cast, the realism of that cast just adds to it where they feel like real people, you know? Even if you're all friends, you have those little moments where you bicker. You have those little moments where you sort of chuckle and you kind of shrug off whatever you just experienced. it it's just this really small scale personal horror film that just dives into the macabre. And I think that last twenty minutes, or you mentioned that long chase, which by the way, whole thing's real. Everything you th think happened in that film, the real injuries, blah blah blah, happened. So that tension and that sort of like ratcheting sense of ominous dread is just baked into the fabric of it. And I think it's a masterpiece. I think it's one of those films that will stand the test of time. I I think the standouts are quite frankly Gunnar Hansen, Marilyn Burns, and f and Franklin. Franklin, I'll get out the way. Franklin is literally doing a bit. And I think one of the funniest stories ever is that on set, Toby Hooper met him years later after the movie, and he was a completely different person. And he went, that's not you. Like that's that was the character. And he's 'cause he stayed in Franklin's character on and off set. So
Sway: Wow.
Austin Cummings: he didn't and so they thought that was just how he was. And then years later he went,
Sway: What the fuck?
Austin Cummings: I'm just and years later he like I'm fucking. With you. That was a bit. And then Gunnar Hansen, and I specifically before I get to Marilyn Burns, because I think she's the standout, but Gunnar Hansen, I think his portrayal of Leatherface is really, really unique because I think it's an interesting take on a serial killer because there's a lot of insinuations that Leatherface is mentally disabled. He's not fully there. And I think the scene that really captivated me and sort of I guess just made me. ruminate on the layers to Leatherface was when he kills the second guy, Jerry, he runs and hits him in the head. He starts running around the living room almost like a like a befuddled child. Like he's like, and then he sits down and there's this long close-up that just sits on him and he's sort of sitting there. His eyes are kind of wandering with his tongue hanging out of his mouth. And it becomes even more nauseating to me because you kind of just realize this is like akin to like someone with I don't know, like autism or disability where they don't even maybe perceive that they're committing these atrocities. So for him to sort of bring that dynamic to the table, that flavor to the character in a way I haven't seen with many others, outstanding. That was great. And Marilyn Burns is just I think she's the number one scream creator of all time. I don't give a fuck. Jamie Lee Curtis, Marilyn Curtis, or whatever her name is from Psycho, I think all of them pale in comparison to the sweaty.
Sway: Yeah. Yeah. unbelievable. Yeah, no, I mean and now we switch over to the two thousand three and the remake. And I gotta be honest with you, th I wasn't a fan of most of this
Austin Cummings: Dude.
Sway: performance. entire movie is contingent on Jessica Beale's performance and how good she looks, right? Like that's what everyone talks about. She she looks fantastic in this movie. But like I Yeah,
Austin Cummings: I was gonna say I think that's the only contingency is how good she looks.
Sway: she looks great. I mean, her performance is again, I don't think it's like it's a major standout, but she's definitely doing a lot of heavy lifting. For everyone involved, I could not stand Jonathan Tucker's performance at all.
Austin Cummings: No.
Sway: I've seen better fuckboy performances. Like you could tell he's like very much of a player fuckboy character. I wasn't f like they
Austin Cummings: Maybe.
Sway: they should have at least made him more detestable because I just felt like I just I I didn't like I didn't want to see him on screen at all. And I
Austin Cummings: No.
Sway: I I was just not a fan of this this cast entirely. I also think that Leatherface in this movie I don't see much characteristics of him. at times he just comes in, commits violence and dips. There is no sense of characteristics to Leatherface in this movie, which I found to be frankly disappointing, you know?
Austin Cummings: No, I I think they stripped him of all traits that could be personal or even, differentiating from the pack because like Leatherface to me is just like a big guy in this. And then also they do the Cardinal Sin. They take his mask off. And and one of the things I loved about the original was how faceless Leatherface is. He wears faces, but you don't know the true face. And they totally demystify everything about Leatherface. And that cast sucks. I'm gonna say this right now. This was one of the worst first opening 15 minutes I've ever had to read. Visit in so long. I and I felt so bad. Cause to tell the to give our audience some context, I was the one kind of being the sort of white knight for this film where I was like, no, no, no, no, it's fun. And then the first 15 minutes happen and I look over at Hosway's face and he's not buying it. And I'm not buying it either, because it sucks. The dialogue and the the performances in this suck. And it doesn't help that Part of Marcus Niespel's vision is I want to make a cool music video with big scary monster, some dope sets, and then a woman running around in a wet t-shirt. And that's the layer of characters you get out of these people.
Sway: I found this to be just lacking in the acting department. And even more so,
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: What makes Texas Chainsaw OG nineteen seventy four works so well is the sound design and the score and the the lack of use of it sometimes when it goes silent and it just lets us sit in these fields as they walk around or as they drive around in their car. Whereas the the score and the soundtrack for 2003 is so forgettable. I cannot tell you
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: much of the sound for this movie other than just the generic scary music ambiance that they add to every scary movie ever. I felt more disgust looking at the basement of the 2003's movies. basement. I thought that basement was done really well. The production design and value was amazing. I think it looks really good in terms of making me feel disgust. but I never felt like I feared for my life. It just felt like it was there. but I you know I can't go without saying about the sound design again. The composers for the Texas Chainsaw Massacre is Wayne Bell and Toby Hooper. They Toby Hooper actually helped out with the soundtrack as well as the sound design for this movie. With Wayne Bell being the main guy for the sound. And again, the sound design in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre is fantastic. Where I feel like there is almost no usage of sound design in the remake that really allow the movie to stand on its own two legs or make it different or even make it stand out at all. What I do think that works for 2003's remakes is the slow-mo sequences do end up adding a little bit more flavor, but it's really just like it's as if you haven't eaten in days and they offered you a burger from McDonald's. It's gonna slap. You know, it's gonna s it's gonna hit because you're hungry. When there's nothing being offered to you, the small little things that maybe could have worked in a better movie are are somewhat enjoyable.
Austin Cummings: No, yeah. And I think to your point about the score, I think the score also Heightens the spontaneity of the original, where it's not really a traditional score where there's like strings necessarily, it's like all these different elements colliding, almost like pots and pans at times, smashing, and there's like strings. And I think about how they apply it in the original. Like, for example, one of my favorite moments in the original is when she runs up the stairs. It's like that first big chase after Leatherface kills Franklin, and she runs up the stairs and she finds the grandma. and the grandpa in the attic and she just runs in there and the score just like ding ding Like it just kind of goes off, and you're like, what the fuck? You're like disoriented. And then you go to that 2003 one and it's just like and it's just like, okay, like my dad put on his Rommstein CD, and it
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: it's like cool, I guess. Well, and and I think that the only thing that really felt authentically cool to me was like you said, the set design. Cause I did kind of like the universal horror nights kind of vibe, where like it's like this big, maze in the basement, and I thought it looked palpably disgusting. Disgusting. And it doesn't help that Arlie Ermi, who by the way is the best part of this film, is standing in the living room at all times in the grossest looking wife beater in underpants I've ever seen. So the it th in terms of like being grotesque, it does work, but like that's kind of it to me. It's it's very empty.
Sway: Yeah, even the entire interaction between the cop and the character when they're in the van, they were like,
Austin Cummings: Way too long.
Sway: Dude, yeah, I was like, All right, bro, this is just this is so cringe. I I
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: I wasn't feeling it at all. It was meant to be like, Is he gonna kill himself or
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: is the cop gonna kill like get the fuck out of here, man. It's just
Austin Cummings: And and it flirts with being dangerous too. Like he like he's like, was it like this? And he makes him put the gun in his mouth. I'm like, that's kinda fucked up. But then it chickens out. So it's like, what the fuck are we doing here? Like, g come on. Stop edging me. This is like weird cop edging porn. Like, get me out of here, bruh. Like get me out of here. Like
Sway: Yeah. I think you made a good point with the with the soundtrack. this feels like very much like a divorce dad horror movie. Like who understands
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: absolutely nothing. He learned nothing from his marriage. He thinks that he's the victim and he's like,
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: okay, what if I like the women who run in the naked T shirt and and I see titties and it's it's violent and
Austin Cummings: He he's like stupid wife. Of course I brought illegal weed over the border. What are you, fucking pussy? Like shut up. Like we're going to a concert.
Sway: Yeah yeah. Dude. It it it's giving that too and there's there's no there's no substance to the movie. I do again, the production design in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the way that they have all these feathers and these bones laid out at Leatherface's house, at the house where they they're smashing up everyone, is
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
Sway: so disgusting and it struck me as so much more Nasty, I I I would argue, because I was thinking back to watching the remake and not watching the original and I was looking at all these bones because there's so much bones and there's so much feathers, and I thought to myself, how nasty must that place be? Like genuinely like
Austin Cummings: unfiltered, filthy, like Well and you what's too? There's all the if you notice, I cause I know you notice this, you sick little man, there there is a there's a lot of little shrunken heads and there's like lots of little
Sway: Yes.
Austin Cummings: like mannequins. Like you can tell they took bones from humans and made like little creatures out of them. And
Sway: Right.
Austin Cummings: and and I think that there's a level of depravity in the original, especially with that scene where like the the father arrives, in the original Father Sawyer, when he shows up and they're almost like running around. like kids, the brother and Leatherface and the d and he's just like, god damn it, and he's like hitting him with the fucking stick, like it like a dad. I was like,
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: this is like a really like hellish family. Like, you know, they're just evil. and and you can
Sway: Yeah and
Austin Cummings: and and the complacency of it too where like you feel like this rural area's just been rotting. a lot of the original to me feels like there's a lot of what makes me so fearful and makes it so spontaneous the spontaneous, excuse me, is this idea that there's no rhyme or reason. And I think what makes that original so interesting, especially with that house, is like you can just tell there's something so impulsive about its layout where like you'll go in a room and it's like why the fuck is that body in the corner? And it's literally like someone threw it there and they just Just didn't think about it ever again and let it rot, you know?
Sway: Yeah, I fully agree. Even when we first enter the house, again, it's all these little things that really make almost your imagination kind of wander and fill in the blanks. Whereas the remake says, We're gonna show you everything and we're gonna we're gonna bring you into this atmosphere and just do gore and gratuity And what I really love about the Texas Shangsa Massacre, the original Is that these bones, these feathers and the musk of the house, leaves for a lot of room for your imagination to be like, where did they get these bones? How bad does this
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: place smell? Where whose feathers are these? Are they killing animals and humans? What the fuck is going on? And then there's a lamp in the dining room that is like of faces, which I found to be so sick, so depraved, but also so cool. And I also love that we don't really get to see Leatherface's room until like later on in the movie. And even then we don't really get a layout of it. It feels like his temple and a temple that we are not allowed in, and we only see moments of it. It feels
Austin Cummings: It's a layer of hell.
Sway: it's a yeah, it's it's it's depraved. As opposed to the 2003's layer, the basement, Leatherface's basement, is definitely sick and disgusting.
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: but there's no like extra layer to Leatherface or who we don't really understand who he is at all, which makes it just kind of feel empty and disgusting for no other reason than just just do that. Which again I think a movie can
Austin Cummings: Yeah
Sway: be that, like especially when you're dealing with horror, like a movie can just be like fun, disgusting kills. but I think if you're gonna
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
Sway: offer that up to an audience, then you've gotta commit all the way. You've gotta go all the way. also you gotta cut out some of that fat. And I feel like there's a lot of fat in the two thousand three remake that I genuinely don't I don't
Austin Cummings: Mm.
Sway: like. I didn't appreciate. I didn't like the elongated ending to this movie and extending like her escaping, I was not a fan of. yeah.
Austin Cummings: Really stupid in execution too. There's so many this movie because you know what sucks? This the 2003 Final Chase does that stupid trope, that weird quirk a lot of those remakes like to do, where Leatherface like finds them and they're like, because you they're like, I've been captured. And then like through the sheerest like concoction of luck, they just somehow escape. And it's like, okay, this is a guy who's apparently ran like his own personal slaughterhouse. Why is he
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: so fucking bad? Whereas in the original, there's that quirk of him being mentally disabled and kind of just being like an overgrown child to a degree. So when
Sway: Mm.
Austin Cummings: he's stumbling around and he's like getting his chainsaw stuck indoors and he's like, like It's it's terrifying because you're just like, he doesn't he's he's just like this uncontrolled weapon. Like he doesn't know what he's doing or like and and there's that unpredictability, you know, because you don't
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: know what he's gonna do. You d he don't know how much he understands. And in the remake, it's like he's too proficient, he's too calculated, and it's like that's not Leatherface. That's like Michael Myers, you know, the slow walking and marauding. Leatherface is a loud, sporadic monster. You know what I mean?
Sway: And we go back to intentions, right? I wanna go back because I think this is going to be a
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
Sway: driving force through all of our OG vs. remake videos.
Austin Cummings: Mm.
Sway: What is the director intending? Because I always approach it. If you're going to do something new with the character, I wanna see your reasoning. I wanna understand why you would do such a thing, right?
Austin Cummings: Yes.
Sway: So we understand that Leatherface in the original i it appears as though he does have some type of mental disability and in the remake he's a lot more calculated. He's a cold killer. Why? You know, that's where
Austin Cummings: Mm. Yeah.
Sway: I like if you want to do that, by all means. I I I am not married to an idea, to a character, especially when you're doing your remake. I want
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
Sway: to see your vision and understand why. Unfortunately for me, the remake and this director's vision for the remake is frankly It's horrible. It's horrible.
Austin Cummings: Buns.
Sway: I I don't see the vision. even in the execution for this to be a much more disgusting and and gore fest movie with no real sort of substance at all. I it just does not land with me and it really does feel like this director was given the keys to do the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and he saw it, he was like, What if I just like did it again but like in slow motion and a like
Austin Cummings: Just there's no thoughts.
Sway: It's like Yeah, just no thoughts and it's like he's just throwing shit at the wall and
Austin Cummings: Well, even what is different, like Arly Ermi. Like that whole portion of the film that's about like the 'cause I thought that was an interesting idea, like the armed wing of the state cops supporting their community, the community in question being evil, because you know, you could say it's also like a great symbol. It's like of course the violent wing is supporting a a violent patriarchy. And it doesn't even explore that. And I think I'd be more forgiving of the new direction if I felt like it was thoughtful. I mean, I think of like here, I'll give you a great little tidbit. You know how in the original they talk about Saturn being in retrograde?
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: You know what that means? In context to the movie.
Sway: No, no. Inform me.
Austin Cummings: it it's spiritually it's kind of an iron it's I think it's kind of funny. It's about structural adjustment and what is the structural adjustment happening in Texas Chainsaw? a structurally sound and safe life adjusting into complete hell. You know what
Sway: Mm.
Austin Cummings: I mean? So I like little stuff like that that you know, I'm like, you can tell this director was thinking about that or thinking about this. And then you watch like the 2003 one and it's like you can tell the two thoughts he had was Camera's gonna go through gun hole and
Sway: Right.
Austin Cummings: when Leatherface shows up with her boyfriend's face on, he's gonna turn in slow mo and give us a really cool medium shot, which is cool. And that's where the thoughts end, you know?
Sway: Yeah. I I was left really disappointed, but listen, my favorite standout moment from the original movie has to be those eye shots. I adored
Austin Cummings: Yes.
Sway: those eye shots so much and just this constant state of yelling and paranoia and the laughing. Dude, it felt so claustrophobic. It felt like too much and it it elicited such a physical reaction out of me when I was watching it and this is again my second time. And again, it's an older movie. You know, this is it holds up and I think that moment was when I was like, This is a masterpiece, dude. This is a guy who knew what the fuck he was doing and I fell in love with it. what is what is your stand up moment?
Austin Cummings: My standout moment in the original Would have to be that entire first kill. Like the literal first time we ever meet Leatherface and he just comes out of the back of the house. And I think
Sway: Yeah.
Austin Cummings: it's it's really a profound moment in or a profound, excuse me, execution in editing and sound design. I love how in the original, instead of allowing the music to insinuate there's this is a pressure cooker moment, scenes will just happen. And the sound in the scene and the and the Depth perception too of sounds getting closer, like the chainsaw or the going away. He allows that sound design with the occasional bump of that really sort of experimental score to sort of just incite so much shock and just that that that needle drop moment of like well, I love that shot where he trips. And he kind of falls forward and then all of a sudden Leatherface comes out and you hear that pig noise. And he just like hits him. Brilliant. It's just it's great. It's awesome. It's so good.
Sway: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I I mean for the remake center moment, I mean it goes without saying it's gotta h go to that headshot. The headshot is is just fucking incredible. Like that light the gun hole the gun hole shot is so
Austin Cummings: The gun hole? You like the gun hole? I like the gun hole.
Sway: cool. I think it's a standout moment. Unfortunately
Austin Cummings: Here I'll
Sway: that's where most of the juice went and it doesn't go anywhere else throughout the whole movie.
Austin Cummings: Yeah. I'll give you one moment of juice that I thought was kind of cool. I think that first time Leatherface shows up, and not when he actually shows up and opens the door. They recreate that piss poor. But There he's chasing the guy across the like field and there's like hanging laundry and the way Leatherface is like bursting through the laundry and you don't see him you see everything going to the side because he's running through it and you see the smoke rising I thought that was cool. That was cool. It was nice. I I thousand three
Sway: That's pretty good. Yeah, I mean I I I wish I enjoyed the remake at least as much as everybody else did, but I gotta say it just kind of falls super flat for me. I
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: don't see what everyone else is seeing. The Texas Chainsaw Massacre original is su is a is a masterpiece in my opinion.
Austin Cummings: It's flawless.
Sway: and I can perfectly understand why this has, you know, defined the slasher genre and you can see its influence everywhere. The chase scenes being actual running sequences, people are not jogging. That
Austin Cummings: No.
Sway: sends fear throughout my body to know he is going full steam and she's running for a life. That is just unreal. It's it the magic is still there. This is a timeless horror movie. an incredible first shot, incredible makeup and design from that caricature that we see in the beginning. Just so much to love about this movie. I obviously am going to take the original over the remake. That's
Austin Cummings: Yeah.
Sway: my takeaway, Austin. What are your takeaways from this movie? Or from both of these?
Austin Cummings: So Marcus Niespel's masterpiece in 2003, no, I'm just kidding. I
Sway: Right.
Austin Cummings: I mean, OG for me. But let me tell you something. like Texas Chainsaw Massacre would be a magnum opus in most directors' filmographies. And Toby Hooper is such a good director that it's only his first film. That's nuts. He has other magnum opuses. That's nuts. And I think Texas Chainsaw Massacre is a portrait of terror that is so finely tuned and crafted in every category sound design, acting, color grading, cinematography, blocking, masterful. There are horror films that have strived for more, there are horror films that have strived for less, and somehow this small little film from nineteen seventy four defeats all of them. I think it's a timeless masterpiece that I have watched more times than I can count.
Sway: Yeah, a hundred percent agree. Listen, I'm excited to get to our next one. I want to announce it. If you've stuck around for this episode, can't thank y'all enough. We will be covering next. I'm super excited for this one. It's Suspiria versus Suspiria. Suspiria is one of my favorite Jala
Austin Cummings: Yes.
Sway: movies of all time. Luca Guadanino is one of my favorite filmmakers of all time. And I cannot fucking wait to watch these movies. rewatch Suspiria, but now
Austin Cummings: Mm-hmm.
Sway: Finally get to Susperia remake, which I'm really, really excited about. Looks very different, but that's gonna be I talked to them. I'm I'm
Austin Cummings: Let me let me tell you something. It's gonna be our most contentious review yet, 'cause I might not actually side with the original. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll we'll see.
Sway: Okay. It's totally fine. That's totally fine. We'll see. We'll have to see. We'll have to say listen. Hostway film brosway here with my boy Austin. I just got accepted to to TIFF and I'm really excited to represent the working class frame rate in Canada. If you're listening to this episode and
Austin Cummings: Soon.
Sway: you wanna support my trip, my GoFundMe will be in my bio. we'll we'll throw it onto the YouTube. If anybody wants to help your boy out, I will go Greatly, greatly, greatly appreciate it.
Austin Cummings: Give this man money. Like.
Sway: I really appreciate it, guys. But regardless, the content's still coming. The the the the good
Austin Cummings: It's coming.
Sway: stuff's still coming. And I promise you, Halloween is going to be our best month ever, brother. Alright, I love you guys. Yes, it's gonna be amazing. Filmbro Sway,
Austin Cummings: Dude, I'm amazing. Love you.
Sway: hostway Ariano, your co host here on the Working Class Remy with my co host. And we'll catch you all the next one. Sorry,
Austin Cummings: Austin. Say no.
