WB 20 Devin Grayson 2021

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Art dot com. Hi, everybody, welcome back. It's word Balloon,
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the Comic Book Conversation Show. John Sntris here. Hey, Devin
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Grayson is back.
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Man.
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It's been a long time since I've talked to Devin.
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We've direct messaged of over the years. A couple of
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times kent close to talking, things just didn't work out.
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Really glad she took the time this week to talk
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to me. We talk about, you know, her work in
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the Bad Office, that classic run that she had on
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all the Bad books from Gotham Knights to night Wing,
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working with Denny O'Neil all those years, and great stories
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about Denny.
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And this conversation.
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We also talk about her love of the Teen Titans,
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specifically Arsenal Roy Harper Speedy, and she's going to be
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writing an eight page Speedy story for The Green Arrow,
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eighty page Giant that will commemorate his eightieth anniversary. Can
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you seriously these heroes getting their anieth anniversary blows my mind,
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especially given that I've been reading them for fifty years.
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Yikes.
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Anyway, this is a fun conversation. Talk a lot about
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her new projects as well. You know, she did Widowmaker
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last year for Marvel's Great Black Widow Story with Redguardian.
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She also did a story for Humanoids called Omni that
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is a really interesting project. And she has a brand
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new project that she's doing for Burger Books that's Karen
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Berger's imprint for dark Horse. This is what we talk
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about today. All that and more with Devin Grayson on
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today's Word Balloon. Word Balloon is brought to you by
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the League of Word Balloon Listeners, my followers of word
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Balloon via Patreon, Patreon dot com slash word balloon. Thank
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you very much, Leek truly.
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As I've said before, it's been a great help to
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me this past year.
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I've tried to expand word Balloon. I'm continuing to do so.
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We've got a lot of interesting projects that are underway
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and it's all due to the support of the word
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Balloon listeners via Patreon. If you'd like to subscribe, it's
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patreon dot com slash word balloon. Hi, everybody, welcome back.
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It's time aget for another so of word Balloon Live
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Busy Wednesday. John Cutris here, really happy to welcome Devin
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Grayson back to word Balloon. This first time we've done video,
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but she's been on the show before and welcome back, Devin.
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Thank you so much. Great to be here, John, and it's.
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Great to talk to you about some of your brand
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new books that you have coming up and so excited
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absolutely so. Have they announced the release date for the
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new Image book?
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Yeah, the new it's.
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Dark Horse this is the it's this.
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Is Burger Books through Dark Horse. Yes, it's going into
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comic stores in late October and it will be in
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bookstores in early November.
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Wow, excellent, Rewild, Rewild, Yeah, what can you tell us about, rewind?
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So this is a contemporary fairy tale about the climate crisis,
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using fairies as an analogy for our relationship to the
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natural world. So all the damage that humans have done,
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it's affected the fairies, you know, on a sort of
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deep genetic biological level, and they're pissed and they're coming
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for us. But it's also there's two main characters, Poe
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and Demand, and there both for very different reasons, struggling
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with concerns of mental health. And it's in part also
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an examination of the difference between individual mental health issues
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and sort of collective insanity, which I think is the
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bigger issue that we all need to be looking at today.
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Absolutely here here, And I know it's a subject too
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that you've explored both personally and through your stories exactly.
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Yeah, and so this just felt this is sort of
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the synthesis of everything I've wanted to talk about and do.
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I'm just really excited about it. The artist is amazing.
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Her name is Yana Automovic and I met her in
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Spain through one of David Macho crazy conventions in Barcelona.
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Yeah yeah. And then she actually is Serbian though she
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lives in Serbia, and she was recently knighted in France.
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So she's my favorite international woman of mystery.
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Wow, that's incredible.
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She's so cool.
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Have you done David's podcast yet?
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Yes? I did. I did it about a couple months
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into the lockdown. She had a great talk. Yeah, great show.
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Great, yea, truly I love that show and I'm always
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looking for great interview shows. Yeah, it definitely fits the bill.
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So that's so fun.
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And he knows everyone and he does a lot of
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behind the scenes connecting like this, like he's actually behind
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a lot of the pairings, creative pairings that we stumble upon.
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Understood. Now, I don't know is this? Uh, I don't
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know what? What?
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Is this?
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A scene from the book.
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Yes, that is a splash page that we're looking at
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right now. That's demand imagining the fairy Apocalypse before it
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actually happens. Wow, being terrified. Yeah, these are interior pages
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that Yana is doing the inking and coloring. That's Poe
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Poe is a fairy changeling, or she likes to clarify,
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actually the human child that the fairies took when they
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were planting a changeling in a crib. So she was
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raised by fairies and comes in or so so she's
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or was she?
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You know?
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So she says, and she comes into Demand's city warning
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about this catastrophe that's about to happen and telling him
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that he has to build a park. He's an engineer,
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and she wants him to turn the mall that he's
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building into a park so that the fairy the fairies
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have a place to go to sort of appease them,
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and so they end up with their worlds and ideas clashing.
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Very cool. Now initial arc what four issues five issues six?
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It's four chapters and it's all it's a graphic novel.
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It's it all comes out at well she.
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Okay, great, wow, very cool. That's amazing. And I'm glad
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you're working with Karen.
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This is great. Had you work with Karen in the past.
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She was technically the editor in charge of User that
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I did with Joan Hilty, so she was above Joan
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Hilty when I was doing that, but we didn't work
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together directly. This is the first time I've really worked
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right with her, and it's just been a transformative experience.
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I adore her and the whole team at Burger Books
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is fantastic. I've been loving it.
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That's excellent.
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And you know, I really all the Vertigo alums, including Joan,
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are among my favorite editors and my favorite conversations I've
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had over the years. I've really got to know Shelley
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Bond in the last couple of years. Yeah, and she's
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terrific too. And Karen, I only got one opportunity to
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interview her, like I'm almost fifteen years ago now, and
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it was a New York Comic Con and like a
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literally like a ten minute video interview. So I keep
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bugging dark Horse to get her back for me and
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somebody I've wanted to speak to for years, you know,
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work with Rukka and Jen van Nider as she has
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and yourself.
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You know.
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No, it's just like, really, all the Vertigo people, and
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I'm sure the same as true now that Karen has
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her imprinted dark Horse and stuff.
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They're just great tiss makers.
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I mean they really, I think recognize great talent, and
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you know, all the writers and artists that have come
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through Vertical Go and subsequent projects and stuff. I just
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really respect their choices in terms of when they were
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repping a publisher going no, we got to you know,
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we got to work with these people on this book.
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Yeah. Yeah. And I love the whole approach to stories
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and comics as a medium that can hold all of
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these amazing stories. It doesn't have to be superheroes all
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the time. And in my old age, I'm not down
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on superheroes. I still love it, but I'm starting to
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not believe as deeply as I used to. Fine, I
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worry that those narratives are not helpful to where we
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are as a society. I sort of feel like chosen
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one story arcs and arcs where somebody swoops down and
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saves everybody else, or we're looking to someone else for
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the solution that's not going to get us out of
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the mess that we're in now. So I really wanted
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to tell a different kind of story, and that's what
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rewild is.
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I can appreciate that.
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I don't, you know, And again, I think depending on
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the writer what they want to do with it, because really,
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the superhero story can tell any kind.
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Of that's absolutely sure.
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But but I.
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Appreciate the discussion that has been going on with the
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social lils that we're all facing today, and I do
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understand that. But by the same token, I don't want
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to I don't want to see it go away. I'd
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rather see it change and too, you know, the current
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the current social problems and find ways of telling stories
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and saying hey there God. You know, you know as well,
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being the fan that you've been for decades, that there've
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always been great stories that the superheroes can't conquer some
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of those things.
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I mean, you know, the the great Green Lantern, Green Arrow.
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Story, traveling heroes.
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Yeah, you know, so no, and that really that's like,
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that's the cool thing is you can tell those kind
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of social question stories and there is no great answer.
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So yeah, you know, I mean, it's uh, it's it's
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a new challenge for a new status quo.
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Mmmmm. So it'd be really interesting to see how we
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how we approach that. You know, individualism is such a
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part of the American psyche and sort of can how
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do we I've been studying a lot about the environmental
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crisis to write this story, and the thing that came
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through most clearly for me was that the thing that's
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going to work, the only thing that's going to work,
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is for all of us to do everything at once together,
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and sort of thinking about how do you get that
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to happen? Is you know, it's so counter to the
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way we normally view our daily lives and our deeper mythologies.
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So it's it's it'll be really interesting to see if
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we can make that cultural shift.
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I hear you absolutely. How has this life last year
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been for you? Has it temporarily stalled any projects? Have
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you had more time?
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Have you gotten more inventive in terms of the way
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some of your other fellow creators have in terms of
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you know, maybe you know, seeking out other platforms beyond
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the traditional you know, comic you know.
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Stores and things like that. What's the year been like
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for you?
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It's my work process hasn't changed too much. I've always
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been alone in a room with the computer, and so
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that didn't change, except that my family's now locked in
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here with me. But as I was saying earlier, I
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sort of enjoyed that. I do love them and I
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like having them close the Yeah, I guess it does
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give us more time to reflect. There was a brief
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pause in the publishing schedule for Rewild. We started back
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in twenty nineteen or maybe even late twenty eighteen, but
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it wasn't too bad. I think we had pencils down
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for you know, four to six months or something and
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then jumped right back in. So but that gave us
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time to reflect and deepen the story. And you know,
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so much TV watching and book reading and consumption. Like
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talk about this sort of the refilling the well idea.
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There's been just a tremendous opportunity to do that. So
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I've been putting in together reading lists for myself and
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diving into all kinds of different subjects and sort of
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maybe enjoying it more than I should have down anytime
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I'm good.
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Well, And then truly I want to hear about, you know,
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some of the stuff you've been watching later on in
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the conversation, but right now, I'll address one of the
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questions here, and it was two subjects I did want
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to get into with you, as far as Devin Grayson's
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greatest hits and Mark asks first, and we'll get into
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this any Danny O'Neil stories. But he also says, regarding
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Gotham Knights, it felt like a very different Batman series
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at the time, focusing on a wider swath of Gotham
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characters that most but most books at the time, it
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felt like it fit with the regular bat books, but
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it also felt a little more mature, a character based.
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Can you go into the dynamics of writing Gotham Knights.
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Well those actually dovetail beautifully because Gotham Knights came about
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with Denny sitting me down and saying, if you were
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going to write a Batman book, what would it be?
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And I said, well, it has to be about the
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bat family. What interests me most about the character of
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Batman is the idea that he's had to sacrifice so
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much to become as amazing as he is. And I
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think one of the things he sacrificed was sort of healthy,
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you know, sociological relationships. They're taxed a little bit in
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his world, but that hasn't stopped this sort of ever
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expanding group of extremely loyal people from gathering around him.
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And I really wanted to explore those relationships. What keeps
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them so loyal, What do they get out of being
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attached to him? What does he get from them? Uh?
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And so just letting the relationships be the focus and
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the drive of the book was my idea, and he
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signed off on it, and off we went.
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That's cool. You know, it's funny.
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I meant to pick up an individual shot of a cover.
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It's in this great little montage of covers that you
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set out, and it's right there.
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I don't know if people can see my pointer, but.
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It's in the it's in the next to last row
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and it's one, two, three, four from the.
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Left, and it's that fantastic Penny, Yeah, the Penny an
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Aquaman and that that great story that you told who
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I forget who your artist was on that. I don't
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know if you remember.
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Oh gosh, i'm blanking. Was that Roger Robinson or had
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we Oh.
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You know, maybe I'm you know something, I'll hunt for
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the cover. But I really I love where that story went,
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because it really did. It was, you know, just Batman
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like anxious and not knowing what to do with himself
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in the back gave and checking in with everybody. And
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I know I've told you this before in our last conversation,
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but I just loved how he kept bugging Oracle and
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just like you know, if you checked this neighborhood, if
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you checked that neighborhood, maybe you ought to do this, maybe.
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You ought to do that.
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And finally Dick Grayson pops and goes, hey, maybe you
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ought to leave us alone.
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Some people have social lives, Bruce exactly.
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And it's so great and it's just like you know,
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and of course stowing Batman, although he knows he's like, yeah, sorry,
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you know, and then Aquaman shows up and it's to
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you know, from the cataclysm, the giant Penny gets stuck
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in a fissure and you know, Batman needs help pulling
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it out or whatever. And the great thing is just
301
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the way you wrapped it up with Arthur saying, you know,
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if you just wanted to hang out, like you could
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just call. You don't have to make up an excuse
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for me to come out.
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Man, I can bring over pizza and beers. It's all good.
306
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I think that's something we all struggle with, you know,
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is knowing why to ask and how to ask for help,
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and so just when you do it with Batman, y
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it is sort of funnier and leaner.
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Well yeah, and again because it's this is you know,
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a air quotes weakness of Batman.
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You know, can you just be a human being. I'll
313
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get back yet then I don't.
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Know exact I don't remember, you know, yeah.
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So so truly that that always stood out as like
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one of my favorite one shots from your Gotham Knight's period.
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And really, what a what a tremendous run.
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And I still cannot get over that you came to
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Batman through the animated series.
320
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That was really your first time.
321
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Yeah, one hundred percent. And I you know, I was
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back when we were talking about Vertigo. I wanted to
323
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mention too that Vertigo was so important to my initial
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relationship with comics because it was the first line that
325
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I recognized the literary references that they were using in
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stuff having not come from the superhero universe, and I
327
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felt welcomed, you know. I remember reading you know, like
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Neil Gayman Sandman and feeling like, oh, he is talking
329
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to me, like I know where all these references are
330
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coming from, that this correlates to things I've read before,
331
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and so it was really exciting to feel welcomed into
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the medium that way. And then yeah, but then I
333
00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:13.559
fell head over heels in love with the Gotham crew,
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and yeah, the I mean, I'm sure. You know, I'd
335
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seen the Adam West Show when I was a kid,
336
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that had been on, but I would I didn't, you know,
337
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it didn't permeate in the same way that the animated
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series did. That just hit me. And especially that relationship
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between Batman and Robin and Bruce and Dick was just,
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you know, the idea that that guy raised a kid.
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I had to get in there. I had to write
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that well.
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And then you explored further, I think in your Titans
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paperback novel and I love that and again I think
345
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absolutely and also.
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What was it called inheritance?
347
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Inheritance? Yes, indeed, and god, you know again and you'll.
348
00:17:57.839 --> 00:17:59.960
Forgive me, but I'm gonna reference our previous talk is
349
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as well that I know you ruffled some feathers of
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Titan fans because you kind of you know, I mean,
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there's there's a little homereronic, a little like subtext.
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And forgive me if I'm taking it too far, but
353
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that was great.
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I mean, honestly, I thought that was really fun and
355
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it's like, yeah, you know, leave her alone. That was fantastic.
356
00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:25.119
Sort of regret it. I feel like I was over caffeinated,
357
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and I think the behind the scenes stuff that people
358
00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:29.880
don't understand is the deadlines that we're on when we're
359
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:31.880
writing this kind of stuff, you know, and so you
360
00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:35.000
have to keep the energy going to complete, you know,
361
00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:38.480
a novel. And yeah, so my energy process is a
362
00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:42.359
lot of loud music and ice coffee. And so looking
363
00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:45.160
back on that, I'm like, if it was so overt
364
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that it was distracting to people, then yeah, it shouldn't
365
00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:49.559
be there, Like, you don't want anything that takes away
366
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from the story. So in that sense, I regret it,
367
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:56.240
but I do. I like my ali playful, and I
368
00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:58.839
just I like the idea that they're conscious about the
369
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things that other people say about them, and yeah, give
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00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:04.359
each other a hard time about it sometimes said.
371
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And also, honestly, that line of DC Universe paperbacks, there's
372
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so many really great stories in there, including Denny's own
373
00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:16.279
selling of the first couple chapters of the Question Run
374
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Right and he put in Hell Down and all that stuff.
375
00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:22.920
Priest I loved his Green Lantern book that he did,
376
00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:27.319
and so many books, And truly I forget who my
377
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:29.880
guest was. Earlier this week, I was telling him that
378
00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:31.839
a couple of years ago, I went to book Expo
379
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:34.880
when it was here in Chicago, and I was checking
380
00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:37.599
out a lot of the licensed books. Oh was Alex Sigura.
381
00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:41.319
And also with the news that they said that a
382
00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:45.319
lot of the Marvel novels Audible is going to put
383
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out as audio books.
384
00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:50.559
Oh fantastic, And they did an audiobook of my Doctor
385
00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:53.039
Strange book, and it was like, it's better than the book.
386
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:58.240
It's fantastic radio production with voices and yeah, it's really fun.
387
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:01.160
So hey, you know, and then let's talk about that
388
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:03.799
for a second. Boy, I didn't read that. Tell me
389
00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:06.440
about that story, because I guarantee you I'm going to
390
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:10.519
be book you know, page at Amazon and trying to
391
00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:11.240
grab one.
392
00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:14.599
Well, you know, backing on what you said about how
393
00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:17.720
great that line was, I love seeing comic writers write
394
00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:21.359
in prose, and for me, that's my that's my first language.
395
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:23.640
You know. I'm actually I find that easier in some
396
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:29.559
ways than comic scripting. But so this was not a
397
00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:31.480
tie in with the movie, but to to like help
398
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:34.200
promote the Doctor Strange movie before it came out. So
399
00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:38.039
the marching instructions were, you know, get people excited about
400
00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:40.960
the movie, but don't reveal anything that happens in the movie.
401
00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:43.440
And I said, Okay, great, so can I see the
402
00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:47.839
script for the movie? No. So the whole thing was
403
00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:50.640
an exercise and not contradicting any part of a story
404
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:53.839
I knew nothing about. While writing a story to get
405
00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:56.759
people excited about a story I knew nothing about. But
406
00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:01.759
the experience of writing that book was actually really remarkable.
407
00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:05.000
I didn't I wasn't very familiar with Doctor Strange when
408
00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:07.079
I started, but my husband's a big fan. He's like, oh,
409
00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:09.839
do it. The guy's so cool. So I did a
410
00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:13.359
whole first draft without quite getting my head around the character,
411
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:15.319
and I was just looking at it, going Nope, I
412
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:18.279
need to rewrite that. And as I was looking for inspiration,
413
00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:23.839
I stumbled across an internet colin by Colin Smith, who
414
00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:26.839
is a teacher among other things, and a comic scholar,
415
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:31.400
and he'd just done this deep dive into the original
416
00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:36.119
Doctor Strange books and just had such love for them,
417
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:39.920
and it drew this portrait of the character that I
418
00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.119
was like, now I know who he is. And I
419
00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:43.920
was so excited to go back in and do the
420
00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:47.000
next draft and it just felt so much more alive.
421
00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:49.640
And now I'm obsessed with him and waiting for Mark
422
00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:52.519
Wade to stop writing so I can come that series.
423
00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:58.079
I understand, and I'll be honest not I've really loved
424
00:21:58.359 --> 00:21:59.000
Mark's run.
425
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:01.119
I thought, yeah, it's wonderful.
426
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:04.759
Yeah, yeah, and but also now you know you mentioned
427
00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:09.000
movie tians and stuff. Are there any plans because obviously
428
00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:12.599
we're all waiting very excitedly about the Black Widow movie
429
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:15.519
that's coming up, and I always forget how to say,
430
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:16.799
is it Arena?
431
00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:17.359
I forget her?
432
00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:18.839
Elena Elena?
433
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:20.519
Excuse me, Elena Elena.
434
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:22.000
Yeah, like Helen but in Russian.
435
00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.839
Yeah, I'm with you, I'm with you. Absolutely great. No,
436
00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:30.039
both both widows are great. Any plans to do a
437
00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:32.240
mini series to tie into the movie.
438
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:34.359
Well, I don't know. I got the chance to revisit
439
00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:38.559
her recently with The Widow Maker's Story with Red Guardian
440
00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:43.319
that just came out, and we had Michelle Bandini did
441
00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:47.519
the art on that. It's beautiful, and I don't I
442
00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:50.920
can't imagine that Marvel wouldn't continue using her. But I
443
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:52.799
don't really know what the plan. I don't know what's
444
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:54.839
in the movie. I don't know what they're doing next.
445
00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:57.640
We talked about this a little before the show, but
446
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:01.680
there's so little communication between the comic branch of the
447
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:05.240
superhero world in the movie Branch, and you know, she's
448
00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:08.000
my baby, and I was very excited to find out
449
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:09.799
that she had such a prominent role in the movie.
450
00:23:09.799 --> 00:23:12.880
But I don't even know what her backstory is in
451
00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:13.720
the movie yet.
452
00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:17.200
Right, And what's also obviously red Guarding Well, I'm assuming
453
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:20.960
that Widow Maker miniseries maybe was supposed to coincide for
454
00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:21.759
the original release.
455
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:24.519
Yeah, it was, it was the release got pushed back,
456
00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:27.079
so I'm sure once the movie finally comes out, they'll
457
00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:30.640
do more. And I'm I tried to set her up
458
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:34.440
in Widow Makers, Yolena as a character who really go
459
00:23:34.519 --> 00:23:36.920
in a bunch of different directions with her, but I wanted,
460
00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:38.480
you know, that thing we were talking about earlier about
461
00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:40.880
what can superheroes do to be useful? Now, that was
462
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:43.079
really the question that I was trying to tackle in
463
00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:46.039
Widow Makers. So she sort of came up with her
464
00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:49.359
own idea based on her skill set of going after
465
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:52.119
the one percent and taking them down on their own terms.
466
00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:54.119
So that would be fun to watch if they want
467
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:54.680
to go that way.
468
00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:58.039
Absolutely, and I'm hoping that the movie much in the
469
00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:01.440
same way that The Falcon and Winter Soldier is addressing
470
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:05.599
the Captain America question and everything. I look forward to
471
00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:10.319
seeing Red Guardian and how much of a shadow through
472
00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:13.000
a Russian interpretation of that kind.
473
00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:14.640
Of hero, you know, how similar he is?
474
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:19.160
Yeah, America, it's fascinating with characters like that, and even
475
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:23.079
really with Natalie that, you know, someone who is a
476
00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:26.400
Soviet character through and through, but as we keep marching
477
00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:29.160
through in time that no longer makes sense with their ages,
478
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:31.359
you know, so you have to sort of play these
479
00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:33.839
games of how do you give someone a Soviet mentality
480
00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:36.119
if they can't really have been part of the Soviet Union?
481
00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:39.519
And yeah, but then again, you know, I meant clearly
482
00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:44.200
a product of the Soviet times in the KGB and honestly,
483
00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:48.680
every every front line that examines the you know, politics
484
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:51.839
of modern Russia and everything, I'm right there, and it's like,
485
00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:53.599
what is that now?
486
00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:56.279
And Alexi is old enough that he he does still
487
00:24:56.480 --> 00:24:57.839
carry that mantle proudly.
488
00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:01.599
That was fun, Yeah, absolutely absolutely, and yeah, and also
489
00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:04.279
in this post Trump world, you know how many secrets
490
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:04.759
are going.
491
00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:05.200
To shake out?
492
00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:06.559
You know?
493
00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:09.920
Yeah, you know so, and then back to current product
494
00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:12.319
or I should say recent projects.
495
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:15.799
You did this with humanoids right, many, Yeah, that was part.
496
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:18.920
That's part of their H one line, which was really fascinating.
497
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:23.480
It was a new superhero universe that they created, uh,
498
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:26.480
And I did that with Alitha Martinez was the artist,
499
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:31.880
and that was yet again a whole different approach of
500
00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:36.200
how to the character. The lead character, Cecilia Cobino, was
501
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:38.680
actually put together by a team of people before I
502
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:42.079
even got there, and so she had this sort of
503
00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:46.359
interesting but inconsistent background, a couple different writers who contributed
504
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:50.119
to it, and they they had, you know, the idea
505
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:52.839
that she had super intelligence, but no one had really
506
00:25:52.839 --> 00:25:55.440
defined what that meant. So I ended up in this
507
00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:58.279
really fun place where you know, a lot of the
508
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:00.720
pieces were of the puzzle on the table, but no
509
00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:03.119
one to put it together yet. And so I got
510
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:05.319
to think about super intelligence in a different way. And
511
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:09.440
I didn't want to do the boring sort of Sherlock
512
00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:12.759
Holmes ultra analytical thing. I feel like we've seen that
513
00:26:12.839 --> 00:26:16.119
a lot, and so I looked for a way to
514
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:19.599
do a more feminine version of super intelligence, but also
515
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:24.319
a broader version. So I introduced the idea of the
516
00:26:24.359 --> 00:26:28.119
multi intelligences and that her brain can access all the
517
00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:30.680
different ways that we can be smart at the same time,
518
00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:32.000
and it was really fun.
519
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:35.599
Plus having a character that is a doctor and also
520
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:38.440
a doctor that operates on an international.
521
00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.480
Level with Doctor without Borders too. Yeah, that's great.
522
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:46.440
You know, I loved bat Wing when jud Wennick had
523
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:50.039
first conceived it, the first Batwing being African and I
524
00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:53.039
believe being a physician as well. I might be wrong
525
00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:56.920
about that, but I think that's a really interesting opportunity
526
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:58.039
to tell a different kind.
527
00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:01.480
Of hero story, right, yeah, sure, yeah. She was already
528
00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:05.079
like so obviously a good character, so then it was like, okay,
529
00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:07.039
how can we make her do good now? But now
530
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:08.720
that we know that's what she wants to be in
531
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:09.079
that world?
532
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:13.079
Absolutely, that's cool ish. Has this been collected? Was it
533
00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:14.480
a graphic novel or was it?
534
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:17.359
No, this was a series, and yes, the first four
535
00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:20.079
issues that Eleith and I did have been collected into
536
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:23.640
a trade paperback, and then I turned the series over
537
00:27:23.720 --> 00:27:28.000
to Melanie Cooper's continuing the writing, and I think her
538
00:27:28.359 --> 00:27:32.480
second for you know her, the five through eight will
539
00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:34.839
also be collected. I'm sure that's cool.
540
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:37.720
That's actullent. Are you going to do more with the humanoids?
541
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:38.720
That's our body wait again.
542
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:41.759
Yeah, I'm not sure I'm done for now because I
543
00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:44.480
was already in the middle of rewild when this came along,
544
00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:46.400
and I was like, I don't really have time. But
545
00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:49.880
because he was involved and he asked nicely, I was
546
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:52.559
doing that as a favor. But yeah, I actually really
547
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:54.519
enjoyed myself and I would I would be open to
548
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:55.039
going back.
549
00:27:56.240 --> 00:27:57.319
That's cool. I know too.
550
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:00.960
You were telling me, as were message back and forth,
551
00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:03.240
you've got you've got a story in the Green Arrow
552
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:04.240
eightieth anniversary.
553
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:09.200
Yes, yeah, we're doing all the fun the fun eightieth anniversary.
554
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:13.319
Those are great. We haven't done big you know, multi
555
00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:16.799
used creator collabse like that for a long time. It's
556
00:28:16.839 --> 00:28:18.640
really fun to see those again. So yeah, I have
557
00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:22.400
a little eight page Roy Harper story, who is always
558
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:25.599
uh my my other guy. Him and Dick Grayson were
559
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:29.839
the Titans that I, you know, just really felt close to.
560
00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:31.759
So it was it was really fun to write him again.
561
00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:35.880
And I I sort of said to them, I haven't
562
00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:38.319
been keeping up with things. I you know, I have
563
00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:40.960
fans occasionally emailing me about all the horrible things that
564
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:45.319
you've done to Royce and suff Leaf. So I said,
565
00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:48.000
if I'm writing him he has two arms and a daughter,
566
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:49.920
and they're like, yes, yes, that's what we.
567
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:51.680
Want, no kidding.
568
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:55.880
I don't like I love James Robinson, but I'm like, dude,
569
00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:59.119
you're like totally putting Roy through the Ringer and everything
570
00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:00.720
and yeah, losing the are man losing?
571
00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:06.519
Uh yeah? Yeah, oh my god, heartbreaking, you know.
572
00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:10.079
And honestly obviously that uh you know, Green Air On
573
00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:14.079
Speedy really were Batman Robin Cipher's when they were first created.
574
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:17.720
But like, how how how do you see Roy and
575
00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:20.559
and Dick and obviously very different characters. I certainly know
576
00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:23.319
the backstories, but yeah, how do you how do you
577
00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:24.279
see their differences?
578
00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:27.799
Oh? I mean yeah, completely different. I really think the
579
00:29:27.880 --> 00:29:30.680
key to Roy Harper is that he's a West Coast guy.
580
00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:37.160
He was raised in Arizona, you know, uh, by the Navajo,
581
00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:41.799
and uh, he's he's just he's super laid back and
582
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:46.319
chilled and and engaged in nature and the present moment
583
00:29:46.359 --> 00:29:48.839
in a way that really doesn't make sense for most
584
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:52.839
of us. It's not typical American thinking. But he's also,
585
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:56.400
you know, a genius assimilationist. So if you meet him,
586
00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:58.720
he's gonna seem like the most American white guy you
587
00:29:58.759 --> 00:30:02.039
can meet. But but that's a facade, like he's doing
588
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:06.160
that to fit in. And underneath that is this really
589
00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:12.960
this sort of this well of community connection and connection
590
00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:16.200
to the earth. And you know, he really has a
591
00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:19.599
very rich interior life. And he loves his daughter and
592
00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:23.000
he knows that she is smarter than he will ever be.
593
00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:26.799
You know, his her mother is a is a super genius,
594
00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:30.480
a super villain, but a super genius. And so he
595
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:32.480
you know, in my mind, the way to handle that
596
00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:34.720
is that he's just decided he's going to be honest
597
00:30:34.759 --> 00:30:37.799
with her about everything and including his voiables and his
598
00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:40.279
sometimes troubled relationship with Ali and all of that, and
599
00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:42.720
that's just he puts it on the table for her
600
00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:45.519
to deal with as she will. So I really I
601
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:49.200
love that relationship, and I think it's just right for
602
00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:51.559
some kind of lone wolf and cub treatment, right, I
603
00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:55.640
tell you right. I feel like the you know, the
604
00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:58.079
fans have grown up, like we have kids now and
605
00:30:58.079 --> 00:31:00.759
stuff like this isn't foreign territory to us. For a
606
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:03.480
long time, there was sort of a DC moratorium on
607
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:06.680
relationships and families, and I'm like, no, that's where we
608
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:09.640
all are. We want to see that stuff with these characters,
609
00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:13.440
so that that's Roy to me. Roy's the real guy's guy,
610
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:16.000
but super laid back and chilled. You know, if he
611
00:31:16.039 --> 00:31:18.160
would always have a beer in his hand, you know,
612
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:20.720
if you were in his house. He has good taste
613
00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:25.319
in music. Dick, on the other hand, you know, hyperactive,
614
00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:27.880
like you know, he would paste like a caged panther
615
00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:30.119
if you tried to keep him in an apartment for ten minutes.
616
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:34.640
He's just you know, bursting with energy. A laser focus,
617
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:37.480
but a darting laser focus. So whatever it is that
618
00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:39.839
he's focused on, he's one hundred percent into it in
619
00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:42.920
that moment. But then you know, somebody's in trouble and whoop,
620
00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:45.279
he's over there doing that and you're just like, whoa,
621
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:49.799
what happened? All that attention? I was just gidding, you know.
622
00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:53.839
And of course he's he's super devoted to Batman and
623
00:31:55.359 --> 00:31:58.039
happy to talk about that and connect himself to him
624
00:31:58.079 --> 00:31:59.759
and stuff in a way that Roy's a little cage.
625
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:02.880
Hear about his relationship with Ali that that wasn't always
626
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:05.799
as supportive for him. They you know, they had some
627
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:07.920
pretty big issues in the middle of that episode, did
628
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:10.240
Dick and Bruce of course, but Dick would never admit
629
00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:12.519
that to someone casually, whereas Ali would be like, yeah,
630
00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:14.359
Roy would be like, yeah, I know what you mean.
631
00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:17.599
I s a little with my father figure too, and
632
00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:20.599
Dick would just like shut you down flat on that. No, no, no,
633
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:22.559
you don't understand. You don't understand.
634
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:24.960
Versus great, No, I get it. And then you're absolutely right.
635
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:29.920
And they were flawed fathers in both of their own ways.
636
00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:33.440
But yeah, and also you know Dick well, and I
637
00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:35.440
guess you like you're saying the way you feel about
638
00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:37.960
Roy and everything. Roy did come through it okay, and
639
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:38.319
then he.
640
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:41.880
Did get and he had had a tougher road to
641
00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:45.319
it and everything with the drug abuse and you know,
642
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:49.200
and the experiences he had. But yeah, I do appreciate
643
00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:52.279
that well, really, that that generation of Titans, and I'm
644
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:54.640
really glad that, as you say, first of all, that
645
00:32:54.799 --> 00:32:57.839
DC has returned to thinking about things in terms of
646
00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:00.759
family and legacy, because yeah, you're I mean, really, when
647
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:03.559
the New fifty two happened, it was like this, you
648
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:04.720
guys are trying too hard.
649
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:08.480
You're really forgetting about what we all loved growing up
650
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:09.200
on this stuff.
651
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:11.799
And I agree with you, but also that the Titans
652
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:15.759
do finally have this opportunity to be adult heroes now.
653
00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:18.839
And yeah, I really hope, I mean, you know, based
654
00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:22.119
on what happened in that Death Metal event, I hope
655
00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:26.039
that Roy is back beyond just this eighty page giant
656
00:33:26.079 --> 00:33:28.519
and we are going to see more Roy stories moving forward.
657
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:31.440
I would love that David Wielgoss was the editor on
658
00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:35.200
both those projects, letting me revisit My Titans and My
659
00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:39.759
Roy and he's clearly, you know, he's a self professed
660
00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:43.839
fan of the very era that we're discussing. And yeah,
661
00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:47.279
I feel like the block on it had a very
662
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:50.599
clear name and face, and once he left, it's like, okay,
663
00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:52.519
now we can do families relationships again.
664
00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:56.599
Yeah, yeah, really, And mentioning your night Wing rung and
665
00:33:56.640 --> 00:34:00.960
another seminal run that I think really was a pleasure
666
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:04.400
to read, and also just the different things that you
667
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:09.760
introduced in there, and again it's really challenging a lot
668
00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:12.519
of conventions about Dick Grayson and Nightwing I think in
669
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:15.760
your run, and like the Trasula thing comes to mind,
670
00:34:16.039 --> 00:34:16.320
thank you.
671
00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:20.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's another kind of like the alli
672
00:34:20.199 --> 00:34:22.320
material in the book that you brought up that doesn't
673
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:26.039
always go over well with readers, and there was some
674
00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:29.760
controversy in that that I regret because it overshadowed the
675
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:31.599
story that I was trying to tell, and I said
676
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:34.599
some stupid things about it at the time. Man, social
677
00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:36.840
media does not let you grow up, you know, Like
678
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:40.920
that was twenty years ago. I've learned since then, I promise, Yeah, and.
679
00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:43.599
Totally you know, I'm not bringing it up to.
680
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:46.840
Oh no, no, no, it's fine. I appreciate having the
681
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:51.400
opportunity to discuss it for that very reason to but yes,
682
00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:55.039
I loved writing that story and I was really interested
683
00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:58.159
in what would it take to let someone like Dick Grayson.
684
00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:01.880
You know, I couldn't bring him to actually commit a murder,
685
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:03.639
but what would have to be happening for him to
686
00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:07.239
even allow one to occur in his vicinity? And that's
687
00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:08.599
what I was trying to explore.
688
00:35:08.599 --> 00:35:11.519
There, I understand, And again, I think people continue to
689
00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:16.119
challenge the status quo with with Dick Grayson in the
690
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:20.039
varies you know, got from his secret agent period with
691
00:35:20.199 --> 00:35:25.039
the Steely to really what Jurgens and others have been
692
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:29.239
doing with him recently as well. Is it tough because,
693
00:35:29.239 --> 00:35:31.480
as you said, you weren't kind of keeping up with roy.
694
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:37.239
I mean, are these like you know, ex boyfriends or
695
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:40.320
girlfriends in terms of like, you know, yeah, once you've
696
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:42.400
done writing them and everything, it's like I don't even
697
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.400
want to know, because yeah, I'm done with that relationship,
698
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:45.679
you know.
699
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:48.280
Very much. So I think I've used that analogy before.
700
00:35:48.519 --> 00:35:51.400
You're you know, you wish them well, you really hope
701
00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:53.159
things go well for them. You don't want to be
702
00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:57.760
looking at their Facebook feed every day, you know, It's
703
00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:00.679
just it's weird. And I mean, but for me, I
704
00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:03.000
don't know if that's true for all writers. I think
705
00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:05.920
there's some writers who are very seeped in comics from
706
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:08.000
an early age, and they just love them and they
707
00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:10.920
keep up with them. For me, the habit came to
708
00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:14.039
me late in life, and I never really fully got
709
00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:17.239
into reading serialized stories the way you'd need to to
710
00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:19.239
be keeping up with stuff. So I tend to read
711
00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:22.480
and sort of research bursts, you know. Before I started
712
00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:26.000
writing Titans, I literally read every Titan issue I could
713
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:28.760
get my hands on, from whatever, the forty years at
714
00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:32.039
that point before me. But I read them all at once,
715
00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:34.079
and then once I was done, I didn't read anymore.
716
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:36.480
I sort of moved on to the next thing. I
717
00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:38.840
don't know how usual that is, but for me, it's
718
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:41.840
really weird to read someone else's you know, even with
719
00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:43.440
the movies, people are like, what did you think of
720
00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:45.239
the movie? Or it's like, I don't I got to
721
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:47.360
put words in Batman's mouth. I don't need to see
722
00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:49.320
someone else do it, like they're just going to be wrong.
723
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:52.119
So you haven't you know you have watched like the
724
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:53.079
Titans TV show.
725
00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:56.079
No, I'm not. Yeah, I have a hard time like
726
00:36:56.119 --> 00:36:57.039
Gotham the show.
727
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:04.159
I not on Gotham. I'll say something real fast about Gottham.
728
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:07.840
It just it was waiting for good oh, and it's like, okay,
729
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:09.960
come on, it's like you're teasing us, and I know
730
00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:13.800
versus twelve years old, but it's like, I don't know.
731
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:16.000
I just I could keep up with it. What were
732
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:17.079
your thoughts on Gotham?
733
00:37:17.320 --> 00:37:19.239
Well, I didn't see it. I was just going to
734
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:22.039
say my Twitter moniker is Gotham met And I got
735
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:23.639
so worried that people were going to think it was
736
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:25.840
in response to that, and like, I haven't even watched it.
737
00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:30.239
But just so having not watched it, I really haven't.
738
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:32.159
I haven't even seen two minutes of it, but just
739
00:37:32.199 --> 00:37:34.400
based on the premise, it also fell off to me.
740
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:36.840
And sort of going back to Denny for a second,
741
00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:38.519
one of the things that we talked a lot about
742
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:42.559
was the ways in which Batman's presence in Gotham created
743
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:46.480
the Rogue's gallery that was there, right, So it's really
744
00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:48.960
weird to think that all the villains were running around
745
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:51.719
before there was a Batman. That that kind of turns
746
00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:53.280
that whole story on its head in a way that
747
00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:55.800
doesn't make sense to me. But you know, I can't
748
00:37:55.840 --> 00:37:57.920
complain about it. I didn't actually watch it. I don't know.
749
00:37:58.039 --> 00:38:00.239
Maybe they had a perfect explanation.
750
00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:02.400
For that well, and again, I mean it ran five years,
751
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:06.719
so it definitely had its allience that but no, I
752
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:09.920
felt the same way and I ended up bailing. So
753
00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:12.239
what because I do want to talk more about Denny,
754
00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:18.440
But what recent or long term what superhero films or
755
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:21.360
television have you allowed yourself to watch or had an
756
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:22.280
interest in watching.
757
00:38:23.320 --> 00:38:26.119
We watched the first couple of seasons of The Flash
758
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:29.599
with my kiddo because he was really into it and
759
00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:33.000
it was really fun though that I'm a role play
760
00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:36.320
gamer before everything else, and The experience I kept having
761
00:38:36.360 --> 00:38:38.960
of the Flash was that it's like watching somebody's RP,
762
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:41.920
like they're having flash adventures.
763
00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:43.440
That's hilarious.
764
00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:46.559
But he really loved it, and I loved that, you know,
765
00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:49.039
it was it was put forth in a way that
766
00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:50.480
he could enjoy it and we could sit there with
767
00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:55.320
him and have fun. Gosh, superheroes, it's not it's just
768
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:58.800
not my medium. It's not what I gravitate toward. I'll
769
00:38:58.840 --> 00:39:05.480
go into sci fi like love the Expanse. That's absolutely trumendous. Yeah,
770
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:07.800
and uh, you know, fun stuff, you know, killing me,
771
00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:09.039
fun spy stuff.
772
00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:13.000
It was fantastic. Yes, yeah, I love Orphan Black good.
773
00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:15.639
Lord, Yes, oh so good that.
774
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:18.559
Yeah, I'm with you. You know, Devin, are you a
775
00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:19.400
Star Trek person?
776
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:22.320
No? Not really. My mom had it on, like I'm
777
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:24.920
familiar with it. It was something in the background in
778
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:25.400
the house.
779
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:28.960
But well then that's all right.
780
00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:32.039
We we've dodged the discussion because I have to confess
781
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:34.800
I'm not the biggest fan of New Trek, and not
782
00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:40.880
because there are characters of color and orientation and female leads.
783
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:44.079
I'm like, no, I starship has always been like that,
784
00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:47.199
and that's kind of argument and I guess the pr
785
00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:50.440
machine behind New Trek has driven me nuts of Wow,
786
00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:54.039
we're really breaking new ground, and it's like, no, not really,
787
00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:56.159
you know, I'm like, sorry, they've been doing it for
788
00:39:56.199 --> 00:39:56.840
fifty years.
789
00:39:56.840 --> 00:39:58.559
But okay, whatever, whatever you say.
790
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:00.519
That's what the whole universe hinges on.
791
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:04.360
But okay, yeah, but also yeah, I don't you know,
792
00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:07.280
all right, So yeah, sci fi. I'm trying to think
793
00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:10.639
of any other what what? What shows it? Do you stream?
794
00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:12.079
What do you what do you guys like to watch?
795
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:17.440
We actually speaking of crazy sci fi. We've been rewatching Fringe.
796
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:21.639
Did you ever see that? That's so much fun? You know,
797
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:25.119
it's the we were watching last night. We're just like, man,
798
00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:28.119
this show is nothing without John Noble though, like he's
799
00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:33.559
just holding everything together. But I like talk about pacing
800
00:40:33.800 --> 00:40:37.239
that show. The entire first season, they don't even really
801
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:40.079
mention the premise, like there's little hints, but you don't
802
00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:42.800
know what's going on until towards the end of the
803
00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:43.440
second season.
804
00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:47.119
If I recall, yeah, well I remember, you know it's funny.
805
00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:50.280
In two thousand and nine, right before the first JJ
806
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:52.559
Star Trek movie, I got a chance to tell Amy
807
00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:56.079
about his roll in fringe and everything and yeah, like
808
00:40:56.159 --> 00:40:58.880
you know, the Kennedy headlines and stuff like that. It
809
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:01.840
was like, yeah, you know another show like that. Do
810
00:41:01.840 --> 00:41:05.239
you ever see that South African show called Charlie Jade?
811
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:07.679
No, No, it was.
812
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:10.719
It was a show that it's discovered that there are
813
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:17.159
three parallel Earths, the whole conspiracy of one of these
814
00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:19.559
really correct. There's our Earth and then one on Earth
815
00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:24.039
is completely deleted or depleted from a resource standpoint, and
816
00:41:24.079 --> 00:41:28.039
that's because the third Earth is taking the resources of
817
00:41:28.159 --> 00:41:30.800
one Earth and putting it in this other one. And yeah,
818
00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:33.199
this this cop kind of stumbles on all this. And
819
00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:36.840
also because it was shot in South Africa, it really
820
00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:40.079
gave it a different look, even from an urban standpoint,
821
00:41:40.119 --> 00:41:41.199
the locales.
822
00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:43.679
That they were using and stuff. So it only.
823
00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:48.199
Lasted one season and Sci Fi Channel buried it in overnights,
824
00:41:48.440 --> 00:41:51.400
but it is streaming in a lot of free streamers
825
00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:54.239
and a lot of yeah. So yeah, I mean, and
826
00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:58.480
unfortunately they never resolved the story. But I found it
827
00:41:58.519 --> 00:42:00.920
an incredibly great concept. So yeah, and it kind of
828
00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:05.400
was fringy in its own way. It sounds like, yeah,
829
00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:07.280
so what I mean, you know, I or I'll give
830
00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:11.079
you a non uh, sci fi or regular genre kind
831
00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:11.800
of show that I love.
832
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:12.920
I love The Crown.
833
00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:16.199
I'm so intr Yes, yes, my husband wouldn't watch that
834
00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:18.239
with me, but I loved it. I watched every moment
835
00:42:18.280 --> 00:42:21.119
of that. That was really fun and for some reason
836
00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:25.039
that reminds me of the Chess one that we just
837
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:29.760
Queen's Queen's gambit. Thank you. Yes, that was great. There's
838
00:42:29.800 --> 00:42:32.480
so much good. There's just a lot of good material
839
00:42:32.559 --> 00:42:32.920
out there.
840
00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:36.599
Are you getting a chance to pitch any TV or phone?
841
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:39.800
No, I'm not connected to that world yet.
842
00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:41.639
Okay, do you want to be?
843
00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:45.920
I'm not sure. I mean, I guess you'd have. You'd
844
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:47.960
be crazy not to say yes, just because TV is
845
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:50.840
so good right now, and now that we're doing long
846
00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:54.000
form storytelling, there so much I think someone with a
847
00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:56.880
background in comics, could you know that's it's sort of
848
00:42:57.079 --> 00:43:00.639
naturally set up for that. I just the old itself
849
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:03.800
is a little crazy. I'm in northern California and my
850
00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:06.599
friends in southern California. I'm just like, better you than me, man,
851
00:43:08.360 --> 00:43:09.480
it's crazy.
852
00:43:10.039 --> 00:43:10.960
No, I understand.
853
00:43:11.119 --> 00:43:15.039
How about the other comic book avenues, like you know,
854
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:18.880
brew Baker obviously, you know, start doing stuff with Marcos
855
00:43:18.920 --> 00:43:23.559
Martine and Panel Syndicate and some of these other platforms
856
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:26.760
for comics that aren't made through Like you know, would
857
00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:29.559
you would you ever want to que absolutely?
858
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:33.280
You know, yeah, that would be really interesting. I you know,
859
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:36.039
after you so, I really wanted to do another creator
860
00:43:36.079 --> 00:43:40.519
owned project that felt like me and really rewild is
861
00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:43.079
sort of I'm like, yes, this is it, this is what.
862
00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:45.559
So now now that I've proven to myself I can
863
00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:48.559
do it, I'll definitely be looking for different opportunities to
864
00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:51.920
tell these kind of stories and to move around to
865
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:53.760
John there a little bit. I also I ache to
866
00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:56.119
write more pros that that really is my first love.
867
00:43:56.840 --> 00:43:58.440
I would love to find a way to do more
868
00:43:58.480 --> 00:43:58.639
of that.
869
00:43:59.280 --> 00:43:59.760
Excellent.
870
00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:02.639
Well, and here's another short piece that you did, and
871
00:44:02.679 --> 00:44:04.960
I'm really glad that you hooked up with the Ahoy people.
872
00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:06.719
Yeah, that was fun.
873
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:09.480
It's great to see because truly, Yeah, A Sniffer of
874
00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:10.639
Blood is just hilarious.
875
00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:12.119
Well, everything that OI.
876
00:44:12.159 --> 00:44:13.800
Puts there so great. They are.
877
00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:17.639
Yeah, you know top Fire and Stewart Mori Company, and
878
00:44:18.199 --> 00:44:20.039
I go haul them just I know.
879
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:21.920
Them all from back in the day, and it's so great.
880
00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:24.719
You know this, like talk about a passion project, right,
881
00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:26.679
this is the perfect thing for them to be doing,
882
00:44:26.679 --> 00:44:28.199
and they're doing such a great job with it.
883
00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:31.519
Yeah, and it's and it's just really filling a great
884
00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:34.320
void in terms of really funny books. God, and again,
885
00:44:34.360 --> 00:44:36.559
as a Batman fan, you must love the wrong Earth.
886
00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:38.719
Yeah, it's tremendous.
887
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:41.920
Oh my god, yeah with you. So tell me about
888
00:44:41.920 --> 00:44:44.119
this story and the Poe collection.
889
00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:47.519
Oh, I just did a riff on cask of I
890
00:44:47.559 --> 00:44:49.639
can never even say it, right, I'm a do.
891
00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:51.280
What you're talking about?
892
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:58.039
Yeah, yeah, But I sort of reframed it as like,
893
00:44:58.119 --> 00:45:00.760
what would it be like to have Poe as one
894
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:03.000
of your you know, writer friends who's coming over to
895
00:45:03.039 --> 00:45:05.159
dinners and talking about his stories all the time and
896
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:07.760
everyone's trying to get him to stop. And he hung
897
00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:10.519
out with such great people, so it was really fun
898
00:45:10.519 --> 00:45:11.960
to sort of do a little research on all of
899
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:15.480
them and just have them all throw bread rolls at
900
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:16.079
him at the end.
901
00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:21.039
And who were his writer friends? I didn't or whatever
902
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:23.760
whatever famous people young with. I had no idea.
903
00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:31.000
I'm blanking right now. But he oh, toy Row and Emerson,
904
00:45:31.239 --> 00:45:34.480
that whole crew. Yeah, so yeah, he was buddies with
905
00:45:34.519 --> 00:45:37.760
all of them. And they Yeah, so I I remember
906
00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:44.360
that from my college transcendidentalism class. It was great to
907
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:46.760
revisit them. And I sort of feel about toy Row
908
00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:48.800
is similar to how I feel about Poe, that he's
909
00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:52.039
he's got a bigger reputation than perhaps he deserves, but
910
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:54.840
I do Emerson. So it was really fun getting here.
911
00:45:55.119 --> 00:45:58.840
Awesome, that's hilarious. No, I didn't know. I didn't know
912
00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:01.039
they were all friendly that that's that's right.
913
00:46:01.159 --> 00:46:02.360
Yeah, they were contemporaries.
914
00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:05.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
915
00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:07.639
How much they really hung out at emer since I could,
916
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:08.119
I haven't.
917
00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:10.400
Well, that's why I was going to say, you're right,
918
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:14.320
from a certainly from a time period standpoint, they were.
919
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:18.800
But no, I love that. That's a great idea, very funny. So, yeah,
920
00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:20.920
tell me more about Denny, because really Denny's a guy
921
00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:21.840
who I guess.
922
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:23.719
You know.
923
00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:26.280
Yeah, So, how did you break through it? DC?
924
00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:32.360
I was working a day job in North California that
925
00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:36.199
had email and a fax machine, so I spent most
926
00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:38.000
of my days when I was supposed to be doing
927
00:46:38.199 --> 00:46:43.320
you know, data whatever, pestering the editors over there, particularly
928
00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:48.159
Scott Peterson, who endured I'd send him like crazy postcards
929
00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:49.960
that with like fill in the blank things that he
930
00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:52.519
could send back, and I just, you know, befriended them
931
00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:57.559
and said that I didn't I hadn't read comics. I
932
00:46:57.559 --> 00:46:59.920
didn't know anything about them. But I was, you know,
933
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:05.039
a literature major. I studied fiction. I loved stories. What
934
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:09.280
did I need to learn do to be able to
935
00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:12.079
work in this medium? Because by then I'd seen Baman
936
00:47:12.159 --> 00:47:14.400
the animated series and fallen in love and knew that
937
00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:17.000
I had to write those characters in their proper medium.
938
00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:22.119
So Scott and Darren and Goref and Denny were all
939
00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:26.920
just terrifically generous, sort of sending back ideas like, you know,
940
00:47:26.960 --> 00:47:29.039
go take this course, go read this book. Make sure
941
00:47:29.079 --> 00:47:31.679
you've read everything Alan Moore ever wrote, you know, make sure.
942
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:35.679
And so we sort of did a long distance tutelage
943
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:37.840
for a while, and then Darren just called up one
944
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:40.119
day and said, okay, you know whatever, it was, twelve
945
00:47:40.119 --> 00:47:44.159
page script go. So you know, it was just it
946
00:47:44.199 --> 00:47:46.480
was so heady and so much fun, and I think
947
00:47:46.519 --> 00:47:49.920
I'd done like the Arsenal plus I'd like I'd done
948
00:47:50.119 --> 00:47:52.320
two one offs and a short story or something. I
949
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:56.239
was like, yeah, I'm moving to New York, but I did,
950
00:47:56.360 --> 00:47:58.280
and you know, and Denny was there and he gave
951
00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:03.119
me Catwoman and we hit it off immediately. He's he
952
00:48:03.159 --> 00:48:05.039
lived in Nayak, which I sort of think of as
953
00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:08.039
New York's Berkeley, which is where I grew.
954
00:48:08.679 --> 00:48:13.079
Yeah, so so we sort of, you know, right away,
955
00:48:13.199 --> 00:48:17.320
we we understood each other's vibe and like me, uh,
956
00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:20.119
he was a student of Buddhism and.
957
00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:24.280
Meditation and you know, vegetarians. So we would go to
958
00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:28.280
these amazing vegetarian meals and talk about storytelling and how
959
00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:32.199
weird but wonderful superhero comics were, and how strange but
960
00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:35.840
wonderful the fandom was, and then really just talk about
961
00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:40.679
the craft of stories and and and you know, meditation
962
00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:42.599
and Buddhism and all that great stuff. And what I
963
00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:46.239
what I remember about him is that he was sort
964
00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:48.920
of a Cohen riddle master, you know, if you had
965
00:48:48.920 --> 00:48:50.880
a problem with this story. I remember going into him
966
00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:53.119
with a Countwoman story once and I was just stuck
967
00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:54.679
and I said, I don't know how to resolve this,
968
00:48:55.079 --> 00:48:56.760
and he you know, listened, and then he sort of
969
00:48:56.760 --> 00:48:58.679
cocked his head and he said, Okay, who is the
970
00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:03.079
story really about? And with that one question. I was like, oh,
971
00:49:03.239 --> 00:49:05.199
I know exactly what to do now, thank you, you know,
972
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:07.119
and you'd run off and he just laughed because, you know,
973
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:09.719
in his mind he hadn't really said anything, but but
974
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:12.360
he did. He absorbed the question, he understood it, he
975
00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:15.400
framed it back. He was just lovely to talk to.
976
00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:17.679
And we did some of the bat summits at his
977
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:21.400
place in Nayak with his wife Mary fran there, and
978
00:49:21.480 --> 00:49:25.039
they were just so lovely about letting everybody in and
979
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:28.639
you know, making everyone comfortable while we thought up these
980
00:49:28.679 --> 00:49:30.599
these horrible things we could do to the characters.
981
00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:34.360
And that's excellent.
982
00:49:34.559 --> 00:49:38.360
I'm I consider myself incredibly fortunate that I had the
983
00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:39.840
conversations I did with Denny.
984
00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:43.679
Yeah, especially some great interviews. Yeah, I love thanks, Boddy.
985
00:49:43.679 --> 00:49:46.039
That's seriously, that means a lot, because you certainly knew
986
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:49.599
him better than I did. And God, I'm just consider
987
00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:53.559
myself incredibly fortunate that Larry heard this two thousand and
988
00:49:53.559 --> 00:49:56.400
six interview I did with him about hell Town and
989
00:49:56.440 --> 00:50:00.440
as much more yes as Batman, and He's just like, hey,
990
00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:05.599
would you be interested in talking to my dad? I'm like, God, yes, please. Well,
991
00:50:05.639 --> 00:50:08.840
and every time I wanted to I would usually try
992
00:50:08.840 --> 00:50:11.639
to get a hint of where Denny's health was through
993
00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:14.960
my goal because Mike and I are friends, right, and really, yeah,
994
00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:16.719
I'm thinking about maybe asking Denny.
995
00:50:16.760 --> 00:50:20.039
And it's like, you know, Denny's had some art. Yeah,
996
00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:22.039
maybe not a great time. And then when when Mary
997
00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:25.159
Fran passed away and I'm just like, god, it horrible.
998
00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:28.400
And then unfortunately, you know God, right after that car accident,
999
00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:31.000
he had like you know, sitting at home. And that's
1000
00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:33.239
why Larry's like he's born out of his mind. He'd
1001
00:50:33.320 --> 00:50:34.719
really be great if you could talk to him. I'm like,
1002
00:50:34.719 --> 00:50:37.400
are you nuts? I'm like, so.
1003
00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:40.800
I have this marathon question, you know, you know, conversations
1004
00:50:40.840 --> 00:50:44.440
with him, and he couldn't have been sweeter and and really, again,
1005
00:50:44.440 --> 00:50:47.320
as someone that read his stuff as as early as
1006
00:50:47.320 --> 00:50:50.199
my first comments back in the seventies.
1007
00:50:49.719 --> 00:50:52.400
He was one of my you know, original writers that.
1008
00:50:53.480 --> 00:50:55.480
And those interviews really you get him on some of
1009
00:50:55.480 --> 00:50:57.800
that stream of consciousness stuff that he does so beautifully.
1010
00:50:57.840 --> 00:50:59.519
There's a couple of times where he goes into that
1011
00:50:59.559 --> 00:51:04.199
and he's just such a natural storyteller. Yeah, and had
1012
00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:07.239
so much to share. Yeah, I really I guess him
1013
00:51:07.239 --> 00:51:07.519
a lot.
1014
00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:09.840
I get it. No, absolutely did you. Did you read
1015
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:10.760
his autobiography?
1016
00:51:11.079 --> 00:51:13.760
I did? I did. What was the word for that?
1017
00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:18.960
I looked up there's that particular type of nonfiction that's fictionalized.
1018
00:51:19.079 --> 00:51:21.559
It's kind a word that I hadn't heard before. I've
1019
00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:24.039
forgotten it now, but I was like, it was sort
1020
00:51:24.039 --> 00:51:25.679
of my introduction to that. I was like, oh, okay,
1021
00:51:25.719 --> 00:51:28.760
that's exactly what he's doing. Yeah. Yeah. Knowing his life
1022
00:51:28.840 --> 00:51:31.119
and then reading how he presented it there, it was
1023
00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:33.400
just absolutely fascinating. And what a story.
1024
00:51:33.920 --> 00:51:37.039
Yeah, no, I agree, And what a loss? Yeah, it
1025
00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:40.440
bumps me out. I don't know. I know for Batman's
1026
00:51:40.480 --> 00:51:44.840
eightieth he was working on a few short stories and
1027
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:47.880
I don't know what happened with that, if you didn't
1028
00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:49.039
complete him or whatever.
1029
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:50.519
Right, that's crazy.
1030
00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:55.639
I literally on Sunday spoke to Joseph Stefano's.
1031
00:51:54.920 --> 00:51:57.960
Son, Oh wow, Well, because we've been doing this deep
1032
00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:01.760
dive on Outer Limits and experiment with my podcast, and
1033
00:52:01.800 --> 00:52:03.760
I knew there was a show like I wanted to
1034
00:52:03.800 --> 00:52:07.119
do a podcast where I look back at either movies
1035
00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:10.280
or a television show. And I'm so glad Gabe Hardman
1036
00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:14.840
suggested Outer Limits just because he was fascinated by specifically
1037
00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:21.320
Stefano and the cinematographer Conrad Hall and and it's like yeah,
1038
00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:24.559
and also ever since they put out those blu rays
1039
00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:29.159
of Outer Limits, you really appreciated the light and shadow
1040
00:52:29.559 --> 00:52:32.679
that they were shooting with. And uh and but but
1041
00:52:32.920 --> 00:52:37.320
like like like Denny and then others, I mean, you know, yes,
1042
00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:39.480
Stefano is a guy that it's like, oh, I really
1043
00:52:39.519 --> 00:52:41.679
wanted to go back and examine his work. And we
1044
00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:45.880
got to talk to his son about about his dad's works.
1045
00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:49.760
And also apparently, uh, he owns the stories. This the
1046
00:52:50.039 --> 00:52:55.360
Stefano estate owns the Outer Limits stories. They can't use yeah,
1047
00:52:55.559 --> 00:52:58.159
they use the title. But so yeah, it's been it's
1048
00:52:58.199 --> 00:53:01.320
been interesting and a great opportunity to kind of explore
1049
00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:04.920
re explore his work. And yeah, I mean really, you know, Denny,
1050
00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:11.360
I hope some great comic critic or you know, scholar
1051
00:53:11.559 --> 00:53:14.400
really sits down with Denny's body of work and really
1052
00:53:14.440 --> 00:53:15.719
goes through the different eras.
1053
00:53:16.199 --> 00:53:18.199
That would be great. Yeah, and pull together, you know,
1054
00:53:18.239 --> 00:53:20.639
get his emails and his letters, just pull it all together,
1055
00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:22.440
and yeah, that would be fantastic.
1056
00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:25.880
Yeah, and as much as an editor as a writer himself.
1057
00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:28.519
And I mean again, that's so great to hear that
1058
00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:31.639
kind of simple advice led you to your solution and
1059
00:53:31.679 --> 00:53:34.760
everything without really giving you a.
1060
00:53:34.719 --> 00:53:36.800
Specific X y Z right.
1061
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:39.519
Yeah, No, he was never pushing about stories. He always
1062
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:41.960
wanted you to sort of find the path that you
1063
00:53:42.199 --> 00:53:44.079
led for yourself. He was just very good at seeing
1064
00:53:44.119 --> 00:53:46.920
it before you did and you know, sort of gently
1065
00:53:47.039 --> 00:53:49.840
getting you back on it. Speaking of advice, though, I
1066
00:53:49.880 --> 00:53:51.920
have to pass on the number one thing he said
1067
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:55.440
to me with just such heartfelt sincerity I would feel
1068
00:53:55.480 --> 00:53:57.960
or miss with that to not share it with everybody else,
1069
00:53:57.960 --> 00:53:59.800
which is take really good care of your teeth.
1070
00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:01.320
Oh wow.
1071
00:54:03.079 --> 00:54:05.760
He was so bummed out about dental stuff leaders and
1072
00:54:05.800 --> 00:54:07.400
it hurts so much and it was such a pain,
1073
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:08.360
and they just said, you know.
1074
00:54:08.440 --> 00:54:16.519
Floss, that's hilarious and that's fantastic, that's amazing. Are you
1075
00:54:16.519 --> 00:54:18.440
you know? And again right now, obviously we're in the
1076
00:54:18.440 --> 00:54:23.119
weird world of No Live E. That's how many cons
1077
00:54:23.159 --> 00:54:24.360
did you do back in the day?
1078
00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:27.000
Where you would you go, well, yeah, back in the
1079
00:54:27.199 --> 00:54:30.679
day though for me is way back in the day. Yeah,
1080
00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:34.360
so I would I would you know, crisscross America and
1081
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:37.039
try to do like one international one These days I'd
1082
00:54:37.079 --> 00:54:39.480
be so psyched for somewhere international travel as soon as
1083
00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:43.079
we can do that again. Yeah, I haven't had anything
1084
00:54:43.239 --> 00:54:45.280
I really wanted to talk about for a while, but
1085
00:54:45.400 --> 00:54:47.880
with Rewild, I will go anywhere and talk to anyone.
1086
00:54:47.920 --> 00:54:53.480
I'm so excited. Well, Jana's art is gorgeous and I'm
1087
00:54:53.519 --> 00:54:59.119
really I feel good about the story. And yeah, I'm
1088
00:54:59.119 --> 00:55:00.480
showing pages here there we go.
1089
00:55:00.679 --> 00:55:05.119
Yeah, no, great stuff and I'm very I'm excited to
1090
00:55:05.159 --> 00:55:05.719
read the story.
1091
00:55:05.719 --> 00:55:07.480
It comes out in October.
1092
00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:09.280
Yes, late October, early November.
1093
00:55:09.599 --> 00:55:13.440
Very cool, excellent from Burger Books. The imprint that Karen
1094
00:55:13.480 --> 00:55:15.760
has We're at dark Horse because you know, their excuse
1095
00:55:15.800 --> 00:55:19.400
to try and wrangle Karen for a down and everything.
1096
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:22.840
But that's that's great, no, honestly, any and and again
1097
00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:25.760
we've got the Green Arrow eighty eighth anniversary your Roy
1098
00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:26.840
Harper story.
1099
00:55:26.960 --> 00:55:29.159
Right, which is about all the things we discussed. It's
1100
00:55:29.159 --> 00:55:32.920
basically a little story quickly covering my understanding of his history,
1101
00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:35.679
which he's telling to Leanne as if it were a
1102
00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:36.719
Navajo legend.
1103
00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:40.079
Excellent, And once again pick up the first volume of
1104
00:55:40.119 --> 00:55:44.360
Omni from Humanoids. Yes, and absolutely from Ahoy at your
1105
00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:48.920
Own After a Blood this second issue. I think that's
1106
00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:54.360
that's excellent. Yeah, any any like are we going to see?
1107
00:55:54.400 --> 00:55:57.719
And of course Widow Maker from Marvel earlier, right, so
1108
00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:00.480
that's available. Yeah, I don't know any other. I mean,
1109
00:56:00.519 --> 00:56:03.079
you don't have to specify if you can't talk about it.
1110
00:56:03.199 --> 00:56:05.039
But will we see more big two work from you?
1111
00:56:05.079 --> 00:56:10.679
So I think so. Yes. I can't give any specifics,
1112
00:56:10.719 --> 00:56:13.000
but yes, I think things are in the works. They're
1113
00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:15.039
very early stages, but we'll problem.
1114
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:17.840
Okay, Well, Devin, I'm sorry it's been so long since
1115
00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:18.320
we've talked.
1116
00:56:18.360 --> 00:56:21.400
Oh no, it's fine. I was Joey and my hus
1117
00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:23.119
were talking about last year and he was trying to
1118
00:56:23.119 --> 00:56:25.679
remember how old he was and he's Andrew was way
1119
00:56:25.679 --> 00:56:27.039
off and I was like, no, honey, you're not that old.
1120
00:56:27.079 --> 00:56:28.719
He's like, well, but last year took four years.
1121
00:56:28.760 --> 00:56:36.159
So yeah, I'm in my mid fifties and believe me,
1122
00:56:36.199 --> 00:56:39.960
I'm like, wait a minute, oh yeah, oh yeah, I'm sorry.
1123
00:56:40.039 --> 00:56:42.239
Yeah, that lasted at least four years.
1124
00:56:42.320 --> 00:56:46.119
Right, Oh god, absolutely, my goodness. Well it sounds like
1125
00:56:46.360 --> 00:56:51.000
you're coping well and I'm glad and yeah, hey, seriously,
1126
00:56:51.039 --> 00:56:53.719
well done on the last batch of books.
1127
00:56:53.360 --> 00:56:54.719
And thanks so much.
1128
00:56:54.800 --> 00:56:58.039
I'm excited about the future stories. No, I truly appreciate
1129
00:56:58.079 --> 00:57:01.440
you talking to me today, and so yeah, thank you
1130
00:57:01.599 --> 00:57:02.639
very much. Devin Grayson