Maggie Taylor on Digital Collage, Surrealism, and the Art of Imagination

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Hello, and welcome to the Art Podcast with me Chris Stafford.
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If you're listening on your podcast app, don't forget to
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hop over to our YouTube channel as well, because the
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whole show now is recorded on video as well, so
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you can see our guests as well as listening to them.
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And of course we always welcome your comments wherever you're listening,
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and if you have any suggestions for guests, drop us
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a comment too. We always love to hear from you. Well,
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my guest this week is Maggie Taylor. I want to
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just make sure I clarify exactly what type of an
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artist you are, because you're digital artist, but you call
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yourself a digital collage artist as well, because most of
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your work is collages, right, I.
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Think of them as digital composites. There's not one, really,
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there's not one really neat and tidy word for this
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whole genre. But there's so many people who have migrated
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from straight photography to using photoshop and then adding more
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and more elements and making a multi layered collage and photoshop.
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And you have some of those pieces behind you, A
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couple of pieces, there's one.
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There, got all kinds of stuff going on in that
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and there's a small one on the side over there
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that's from my Alice in Wonderland series of the White Rabbit.
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I love that when you've sent me a whole selection.
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I've seen them on of course on your website too,
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just shows the breadth of your imagination. I'm wondering if
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that was the Maggie as a child as well. Did
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you have that kind of imagination?
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I would say I was really nerdy and I read
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a lot of books, Like my favorite thing to do
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was go to the public library and just get tons
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of books and read. So yeah, I mean, I guess
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that was a little bit a precursor to being interested
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in telling stories. And I think my work is kind
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of a storytelling visual situation.
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So if you had had to give me your elevator pitch,
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what would you say about you.
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In your oh my elevator pitch?
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I don't know. I would just say I.
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Collect things and I weave them into my images, and
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they're a little bit autobiographical, which I think most people's
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are is in some way to some extent, And I
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don't necessarily tell people what they mean. I leave it
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up to every individual viewer to decide what they mean,
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and feed in their own personal histories or dreams or
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ideas when they look at them.
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So so yeah, so they when they're viewing your work,
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then you want you want it to be their interpretation,
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like any piece of box, right, But this has so
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many layers to it as well.
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Yes, I mean technically it has a lot of layers
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in it. And also there are a lot of photographs
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in it. There's a lot of even though they don't
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they look more like a painting than a photograph. But
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most of the things in there are either photographs taken
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over the years with various camera including my cell phone camera,
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or scanners. I put objects directly on a scanner and
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then so there is something tied to reality, whether it's
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a doll or an old photograph. I used a lot
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of nineteenth century photographs and I scan them in. They're anonymous,
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we don't know who made them in most cases, and
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then I retouched them and start to treat them like
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actors on a stage and kind of invent what their
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reality is going to be.
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Will you that little girl who was dressing up and
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performing then and creating characters in your mind and.
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Not really no, I was really sporty more I would say.
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I mean, as I got into my teenagers too, I
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was really really into sports and horseback riding and sailing, snorkeling, swimming,
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anything like that, swim team, all of that. So I
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would say I spent most of my time when I
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wasn't in school doing athletic things or outdoor.
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Things, horseback riding. Come on, you're talking my language, now,
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what did you do?
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I'm jumping hunter jumper type things. So I went away
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when I was fourteen, fifteen and one when I was
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fifteen to boarding school and in Virginia. And then I
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went there because you could ride horses every day there.
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Yes, there are some schools up here that do just that.
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And do you still ride very rarely?
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No, I mean only if I'm on vacation somewhere and
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there's an opportunity to do it, a trail ride or
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something like that. I like it, but I have really
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not done it that much. My sister has horses, so
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sometimes if I'm at her house, I can ride a
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horse there, but it's very rare when you are in
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a horse country down there. We are, that's true.
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You are right next to Oakalla, Florida. Yeah, and so
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you'll work nowadays, then obviously it's multicompositive, it's digitized and collaged.
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And I'm curious about your attitude or feelings about AI
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because that's such a big part of life now even
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more and more so, and I think truly are at
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the beginning of it. So the potential is huge, and
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it can be for some artists a controversial topic. How
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do you feel about it?
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I would say, I'm fascinated by it, and I use
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it almost every day. So even for example, that piece
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on the wall behind me here has probably about fifteen
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different AI images in it. I don't I've been using
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it since twenty twenty two, and at first I only
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used it in a sort of limited way for a
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background or perhaps a layer that would go into a
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background and be partially transparent, almost giving you the look
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of a mural or a wallpaper or something like that.
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And then I started to generate these interesting characters and
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I thought, you know, I want to use them, but
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it's rare that I get the exact face that I
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want on the exact clothing that I would want, So
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they're mostly cobbled together, where it might be four to
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ten images making up one person. And do I think
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of it as sort of like you're auditioning them for
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a play or something. So you get these different characters,
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put them into a scene, figure out what the background
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might be, and audition some different backgrounds too. So it's
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a very time consuming thing, and I only make about
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twelve images in an average year, so I work on
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them for about a month. I would say. Sometimes I'll
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work on two images at the same time, and then
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the two kind of stay side by side in my
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computer until I'm done with them, and that could be
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six or eight weeks. Even.
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How has the public's reaction been to your use of AI, then,
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given you've been doing it as lot and probably longer
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than most.
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People by and large, I would say people are curious
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and accepting. I teach works quite often, and I've noticed
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over the years i've been teaching photoshop workshops, and during
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the pandemic, I started teaching online on Zoom instead of
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in person, and I've noticed that a lot of people
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that are in my classes, who are very advanced photoshop users,
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are also gravitating toward experimenting with AI. I mean, first
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of all, people just want to know what is it,
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how does it work? Am I going to get something interesting.
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Some people are really excited about using it as a
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kind of brainstorming idea to just sort of get their
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images flowing and come up with something. And quite often
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I'll make something that surprises me. I use the program
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called mid Journey, and I'll make something that I put
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in a prompt and I get something that's just utterly
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crazy and not at all what I thought I was
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going to get. But then I'm intrigued by it, and
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I can use that as a template or sketch if
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you will, and then just start adding in more things,
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and I'll realize, well, that is not nearly good enough,
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or that person is not nearly good enough. So I
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like to generate the items solo, one at a time,
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usually on a playing background, and then cut them out
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and photoshop and put them in and do what I
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need to. And you know, photoshop has the ability to
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change people's poses. You can use AI within Photoshop now
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to get a better hand or a better face or whatever.
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So in general, I would say I'm sorry, I'm kind
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of a run on sentence person, But the people who
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buy my work have not been particularly deterred or upset
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in the gallery setting, and in fact, I've done a
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couple of talks in galleries where it's just for potential
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art collectors to come and hear what's going on and
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how I'm using AI in my work, and people seem
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excited and fascinated by it, and so many other artists
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I know are using it hardly anybody that I know
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uses it to make a finished piece, you know, all
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at once, like just the dice, give your prompt and
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that's your finished piece. But I do I am aware
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of some artists that work in that way, and I
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don't have a problem with it. To me, it's just
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not going to give me exactly what I want. But
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I also do notice the negative comments too. So if
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I put something out there on Instagram or Facebook or whatever,
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and I say if it's got AI in it usually
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or I'll say it has many, many, many layers, and
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I tag it as mid Journey or something like that,
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then you know there are a handful always of people
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that are going to hate it. Companies all the people,
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all the time, right, Yeah, And I mean that's the
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same that it would have been without AI. If I
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back it up ten years and say I'm putting a
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photoshop image on there, or back it up twenty five years.
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So when I first started using photoshop, haters will hate.
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There are a lot of.
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People back then that were like, ew, if you're using
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photoshop and you're making an inkjet print, this can't be
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in a gallery.
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This is an art, but a photograph is. Yeah. Well,
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that's a long discussion and I'm sure it's an ongoing
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one for you and and certainly amongst other artists as
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well and in the art community. But I want to
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go back in time, Maggie, as we do with the show.
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As you know, because you were born in Cleveland, Ohio,
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but you've lived in Florida for many years. Now, let's
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go back to those early days. What life was like.
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You were one of two girls. Tell us what you
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What are your earliest memories of your very early life
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your chop.
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Actually, early memories I have were going to Florida because
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my grandparents lived in Florida, so going to visit them,
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spending time on the Atlantic Ocean, going to a place
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called McKey Jungle Gardens and Vero Beach to see flamingos
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and stuff like that. And partly I remember those things
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because photos were taken. My father had a camera and
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was a big a fan of photography in general, so,
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you know, just an amateur person who liked to mess
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around with cameras. So when I say those are my
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earliest memories, they probably really are coming from the photographs. Right.
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He was a stockbroker then. Was he into the big
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outdoors and sports like you? Is that where you got
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him from?
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Yes, he was into boating and fishing water things. So
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that's also why we moved to Florida, as he decided
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he would rather live on the water and not in Cleveland,
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and his parents had already moved to Florida, so we
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moved and he was you know, we had a dog,
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and we had a bunch of different small boats, and
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my sister and I were allowed to just do what
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we wanted with the boats, go out and sail for
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the whole afternoon in a little pram and sail to
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a little island in the bay where we lived, and
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have a picnic of jello or brownies or something, and
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then sail back home. So, I mean it was a
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really different time. I'm back then, and this would have
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been around nineteen seventy two or so, that it was
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very safe and no one worried and from the house
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they could see where we were in the boat, and
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it was just a fun thing. And all the kids
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in our neighborhood did that too.
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You were just told just behind in time for dinner.
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Right yep. And also back then there were so many
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more animals, in particular, particularly dolphins, So I couldn't remember
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days when we would go out in the little sailboat
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and sail out to this mudflat island and there could
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be forty dolphins around us playing, like coming right up
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to the boat looking at you, jumping, playing, flipping whatever.
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It was so amazing. Now I'm lucky I still go
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back to that same area. But I'm lucky if if
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I do see dolphins, you know, and if I do,
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it'll usually be five or so.
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Did you have a camera? Did you dud teach you
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not to do photography as a child.
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No, I didn't. I had a Kodak Instomatic, a little
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tiny camera that I got in nineteen seventy six. I
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know because it had bison ten stickers on it. But
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I only use it to photograph my pet hamsters. I
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didn't really take pictures of other people.
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And your mother, Sarah, was she stayed her mom or
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did you have a career before having children. From time
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to time.
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She had a couple of different jobs, working in a
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gift shop or a clothing shop, mostly because then if
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she worked there some she got a discount, and she
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liked those particular stores. They were fun and she had
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some friends that did that too, I think. But and
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then for a while she had a real estate license,
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but she never actually sold any real estate, so she
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was thinking about that. But mostly she was a stay
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at home mom. What kind of things did you do
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with your mom? Like, what did she teach she? Was
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it cooking, was it sewing? What kind of relationships did
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you have with her? No, she didn't really cook that much.
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She did like gardening, I would say, or maybe it's
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more yard maintenance, which you had to do a lot
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of in Florida back then. So she liked those kinds
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of things. She was sporty too. She played golf and
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tennis until just a few years ago. She's ninety one now.
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Until just a few years ago she was still doing croquet.
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She's really into very competitive, very competitive croquet with very
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fancy mallets, and that was like a lot of people
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are doing that now once they kind of retire from golf,
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so but she's traveled all around the world playing golf
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and doing different things too, So I mean it was
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more again outdoorsy things. My parents were not art museum people.
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They were not that into art or you know, other
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than reading a mystery or something like that. They weren't
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really big readers, So I don't know what we did.
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Were you competitive then? Did you get that from your mom?
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I mean I wasn't really competitive in sports. And I
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went to a very odd grade school from like age
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eleven until fifteen that was run by a man who
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said he only wanted to to train girls. It was
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only women. You only wanted to train girls to be
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good wives, and in order to do that, you needed
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to learn all the sports. But we were not allowed
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to play for points. So if we played tennis, we
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couldn't keep score. If we swim, we couldn't race, If
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we sailed, we couldn't race. But those were all the
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things that we learned. I did archery fencing. No keeping
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score in the fencing, because you were just supposed to
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learn the rules so that you could do it well
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in the future with your potential husband. And don't teach
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the girls to be competitive.
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Well, how interesting. I don't think I've come across that
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before that, you know, and I'm from a sports background.
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That's really super interesting that you couldn't be that competitive,
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right and make it a competition participation but not competing. Yeah,
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to be competent and be good at everything. And so
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then by the time I.
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Went to college, I could swim on the swim team,
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you know, because I swam every day, and I was
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a very good swimmer. So I could swim, and I
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could do fencing, and you know, I could do those
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things in a very competent way, and it was more
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fun then when you actually got to do it with
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other people, boys and girls together and having competitions.
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00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:19.080
And post college, did you carry on with any of
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those sports?
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Yeah, I mean I still play. I played tennis right now.
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Like I really like this sport pedal pad e l
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00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:30.240
and it's more of a It came from Latin America originally,
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but it's super popular in Sweden and my husband is Swedish,
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so every time they go over there we play. We
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just came back from Puerto Rico. We were playing at
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a hotel in Puerto Rico. That was great. It's glassed
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in or the back part of the court has glass
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and you can play off the glass more like squash. Yeah,
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and I still do those kind of things, and I'm
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a runner, so I was until just this week. I
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was training for a half marathon, which would have been
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week but I had to cancel that trip due to
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a little family emergency, so I'm not going to do it.
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But I'm still going to go out this weekend and
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do my ten or eleven mile run just because I
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like doing it.
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I love that, So that's important to you. Then obviously
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you know, given your busy lifestyle, that you make time
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for that.
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And gardening too, because I think if you sit and
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work at the computer as many hours a day as
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I do, you need to have some great thing to
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do outdoors or something physical. Anyway. Pets, No, I used
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to have dogs most of my life. I had two
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or three dogs at one time. But then I got
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remarried about eleven years ago, and we travel a lot
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because of going back to Sweden to see family, and
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I have a step son who lives in Germany, so
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we're away a lot, and it's just too hard to
334
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deal with the pet sitting and all of that. So
335
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I've given up on dogs for now, but I have
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lots of friends that have dogs, so I see dogs
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all the time.
338
00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:02.960
Well, you mentioned that that your parents didn't expose you
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necessary to museums and galleries as a child, So where
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did that first interest in art begin for you.
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I kind of liked hobbies when I was a teenager.
342
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So you could go to the Tyrone Square mall and
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Saint Pete and there was some kind of a little
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hobby noook craft shop. I can't even say what the
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exact name of it was, but you could take I
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think I first started with a sewing class, and I
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was horrible. I had no patience for that. But then
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they had decoupage and oil or acrylic painting, watercolor painting,
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and these little classes that would be on the weekend.
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And we didn't do much art in my school, but
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this was like it just a little weekend opportunity to
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do these mini classes. So I did that, and then
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by the time I went to high school in Virginia,
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I did have a very good art teacher there, and
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so I wasn't good at it, but just for fun
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I would do I did like a watercolor painting of
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my roommate. It's house. She had a photo of her
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house and she was feeling homesick. So I did a
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00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:08.359
watercolor of that. And then, you know, just over three
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years there, I took a lot of art classes and
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got interested in that, but I did not see it
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as something that I would do in college.
363
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:19.920
So what did you do in college then? Because you've
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got a BA at Yale and then Fine Arts at
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University of Florida, Gainesville. Correct, yes, So what was your
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00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:31.920
when you started to go to college? What was on
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your mind? What were you taking with you from high school?
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And that you thought you'd pitch you as a career.
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Well, I had a weird thing. They used to give
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you those tests that would tell you what you should
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go into, you know, those sort of standardized tests that
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were your aptitude tests to see what would you be
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good at. And mine came back and said that I
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should be into the entertainment industry in some way, like
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acting or something. And I thought, that's definitely not me.
376
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What a stupid result from that test, but them and
377
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it mentioned nothing about art. The girl across the hall
378
00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:09.359
from me was the star of quite a few of
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the plays in the little dramatic theater in our high school,
380
00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:16.200
and I used to practice her lines with her just
381
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:19.200
because she was across the hall, and that was a
382
00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:21.839
fun thing to do, and I have a kind of
383
00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.400
very good memory for stuff like that. So she got
384
00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:28.640
laryngitis or some sort of bad cold and couldn't perform
385
00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:31.599
the day before the play was to go on, and
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00:20:31.640 --> 00:20:34.039
I said, well, I know all her lines, like I've
387
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been practicing with her for weeks, and I have it.
388
00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:38.119
It's committed to memories, so if you want me to
389
00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:39.880
do it, I'll do it. But I don't know if
390
00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:43.559
i'd feel comfortable being on stage. So I did it,
391
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:46.799
and I loved it. It was so much fun. So
392
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:49.480
by the time I applied to colleges, I was actually
393
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:53.960
looking for someplace where I could do some theater program. Stupidly,
394
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:57.640
I didn't realize that at Yale, really the theater program
395
00:20:57.839 --> 00:20:59.839
is only for graduate students, or at least it was
396
00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:03.079
back then, and what the undergrads did was be in
397
00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:06.680
all kinds of musical theater and you know, smaller productions
398
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:09.400
all around the campus, but not in the big drama school.
399
00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:13.400
So then I can't sing. I can't even sing Happy
400
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:18.119
Birthday on key. So I decided dramas. Not for me.
401
00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:22.400
Most of my roommates did the singing and were in
402
00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:24.799
plays and enjoyed it quite a bit, or were in
403
00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:27.599
singing groups because that was also big at Yale. But
404
00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:30.960
I didn't participate in one single play once I got there,
405
00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:33.240
so that was off the charts, like just not going
406
00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:36.920
to be a thing. And then they didn't make you
407
00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:41.000
pick your major until the beginning the end of sophomore
408
00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:43.799
year or beginning of junior year, and most people just
409
00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:46.359
kind of counted up how many credits they had and saw,
410
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:49.200
what's my strongest thing here to go with and just
411
00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:52.480
pick that. So I had taken more courses in philosophy
412
00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:56.079
than anything else because there were courses like philosophy of art,
413
00:21:56.200 --> 00:21:59.799
philosophy of architecture, philosophy of death, and I had some
414
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:02.880
really great teachers. There were small courses, and I loved
415
00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:05.440
those classes. So when I counted it up, I thought,
416
00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:07.480
I guess I'm going to be a philosophy major because
417
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:11.599
I have more of that than anything else. And I
418
00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:15.440
also heard that at that time, if you wanted to
419
00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:18.880
go to a law school, statistically they were taking more
420
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:22.640
of the philosophy majors, particularly because they were really heavy readers,
421
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:27.119
and so I thought, you know, that's not a bad choice.
422
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:29.119
So I was a philosophy major, and.
423
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:30.920
Did you think that you would go into law?
424
00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:33.480
In the very back of my mind, I thought that's
425
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:36.079
an option I would like to leave open. Yeah, because
426
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:39.039
I'm a really fast reader. I'm also a fast typist,
427
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:43.720
and I like reading, so I think it could have
428
00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:46.839
been an interesting career choice. Actually, But what happened was
429
00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:51.079
I had a couple of friends who had taken photography classes,
430
00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:54.039
and they said, it's amazing because you don't have to
431
00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:55.839
read any books. You're going to just be in this
432
00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:59.039
basement of the Art and architecture building and going in
433
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:01.960
a dark room and learning how to develop film and
434
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:05.960
making prints. And the classes had anywhere from like five
435
00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:08.720
to ten people in them. There were very small classes
436
00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:12.240
hands on, and so they talked me into signing up
437
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:14.839
for one of those for beginning black and white photography.
438
00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:20.200
And a lot of people took classes like that. You
439
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:22.839
could take any number of different classes that were a
440
00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:25.480
little bit easier, a little bit less of a load
441
00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:28.559
for reading. So I tried it, and I had a
442
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:31.440
great teacher, and then I thought I'll take it again.
443
00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:32.920
So the way it worked is you could just sign
444
00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:35.680
up each semester and take another one. I don't know
445
00:23:35.720 --> 00:23:38.279
that they ever even called it intermediate or advanced, but
446
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:41.160
after a while we were all. I spent two two
447
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:45.039
and a half years in those classes, and one of
448
00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:47.640
the professors asked me if I wanted to have a
449
00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:50.400
summer job working at a photography gallery in New York City,
450
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:53.400
which was something I would never have thought of on
451
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:56.039
my own. I had never even been to New York City,
452
00:23:56.160 --> 00:24:00.960
or maybe one time I had been there, so I said, yeah.
453
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:03.960
So I thought it would be an unpaid you know,
454
00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:06.880
like I just go and I'm an intern. But when
455
00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:09.880
I went in to have an interview with this man,
456
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:12.640
Daniel Wolf, who had Daniel Wolf Gallery up on fifty
457
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:15.640
seventh Street, he was so kind and he said, tell
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00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:17.680
me how much you would need to be paid to
459
00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:20.319
afford having an apartment in the city, and I'll pay
460
00:24:20.359 --> 00:24:23.440
you that. So I got a roommate, one of my
461
00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:26.039
former roommates from school, and she and I shared an
462
00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:29.319
apartment for the summer in Manhattan, and I worked every
463
00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:34.519
day cataloging his collection of photographs. Basically is what I did,
464
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:37.880
measuring and looking at a lot of nineteenth century photography.
465
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:42.680
Oh, so that would have instilled a grain of interest,
466
00:24:42.680 --> 00:24:44.319
I would imagine, yes.
467
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:46.160
And then I really I wanted to go to graduate
468
00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:49.119
school at Princeton in art history because they had a
469
00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:54.000
really very well known photography history program there led by
470
00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:56.359
Peter Bannell, and I really really wanted to go there.
471
00:24:56.359 --> 00:24:59.279
So I applied and I got rejected. So I was
472
00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:03.759
so sad. Years later, well one year later, I ended
473
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:07.160
up coming to the University of Florida to do a
474
00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:11.839
practical MFA in photography, and I got married to the
475
00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:15.079
person who was my teacher a few years later than that,
476
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:19.279
Jerry Yulesman, and we were married for twenty five years.
477
00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:23.359
And his best friend was Peter Banell. So Peter went
478
00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:25.920
back and looked at the Princeton applications and all, and
479
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:27.599
he said, magg yeah, I went back and checked it.
480
00:25:28.119 --> 00:25:30.279
You couldn't come here because you weren't an art history
481
00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:32.559
major and you did not have enough art history credits,
482
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:35.119
and that was a pretty firm cut off for them,
483
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:40.200
like you just wouldn't have qualified. Well at least you knew, yeah,
484
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:42.720
and it's probably for the best.
485
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:46.519
So yes, yeah, So that was the early introduction if
486
00:25:46.519 --> 00:25:49.640
you will too. What was possible to be creative with
487
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:54.519
photography then? Having spent time in the darkgroom yep, and then.
488
00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:59.079
Graduate school, I tried some color work and some more
489
00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:04.119
experimental things, and also making physical collages and rephotographing them.
490
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:07.640
That was something back then, because this was all before photoshop.
491
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:10.440
So I got my MFA in nineteen eighty seven, was
492
00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:12.200
from eighty five to eighty seven. It was a two
493
00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:16.880
year program back then, and yeah, there was no There
494
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:20.160
was one computer class you could take to make an image,
495
00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:25.200
and it took all semester programming with either apl or
496
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:26.720
four tran or so, I don't know. We had a
497
00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:30.680
program to get the colors and the pixels and just
498
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:34.680
get the most rudimentary, horrible pixelated image at the end.
499
00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:37.599
So I did it, and I thought it was interesting,
500
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:39.920
but it certainly wouldn't be the way I would try
501
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:41.319
to make art at that point in time.
502
00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:45.839
So when you graduated, how were you thinking you could
503
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:47.000
make a living out of this?
504
00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:50.880
Most people taught. Most of the successful people that I
505
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:52.880
went to grad school, or that went to grad school
506
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:56.000
within a ten year period around me, got jobs teaching
507
00:26:56.039 --> 00:27:00.519
at universities, you know, or even a community college or something,
508
00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:03.039
but get a full time job teaching in an art department.
509
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:06.359
That was what I thought I would do. But then
510
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:09.400
when I ended up getting married to Jerry and staying here,
511
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:13.640
they definitely were not fans of hiring their own students.
512
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:16.000
A lot of schools have that policy. If you've gotten
513
00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:18.640
your MFA there, you should go and teach somewhere else.
514
00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:21.319
What did your aunt look like then?
515
00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:22.279
In those early days?
516
00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:26.400
Color still life photography was something I did for about
517
00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:29.200
ten years where I had a very old four x
518
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:33.319
five camera and I put it on a stationary stand
519
00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:37.119
and I arranged stuff under it in a sense of
520
00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.119
three dimensional claws with taxi, der meat animals or butterfly
521
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:44.799
wings or drawings that I would make and sort of
522
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:48.000
layer it up and then just take the image of
523
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:49.960
it and that's done, and then I would go in
524
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:52.359
the dark room and print large color prints of that.
525
00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:57.480
How did it involve them? Because this multi lad literally,
526
00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:02.400
this is true process that's evolved for you. How did
527
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:03.079
it evolve?
528
00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:07.720
Well, already back then I was taking actual nineteenth century
529
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:11.680
photographs and little bits and pieces of things and making
530
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:15.680
a layered claws. It's just that I then would photograph it,
531
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:17.920
and if I didn't like it, I'd have to come
532
00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:20.200
back the next day and do it again. And I
533
00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:22.960
usually worked outside with natural light in the late afternoon,
534
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:25.680
so I would get my negatives developed, take a look
535
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:28.680
at them, and make contact sheets of them, contact prints
536
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:30.480
to see what they looked like. And then if I
537
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:32.759
didn't like the way as shadow was or I realized
538
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:34.599
this was too close to the edge, or that was
539
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:37.200
the wrong green or something, then I would have to
540
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:39.519
rephotograph it. And I wasted a lot of time and
541
00:28:39.559 --> 00:28:43.119
money on those images for about ten years. But I
542
00:28:43.160 --> 00:28:46.839
did start to get some gallery shows, which was good,
543
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:49.839
and I got a Florida Artists Grant and some other things,
544
00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:53.319
and then I started to hear more and more about photoshop.
545
00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:57.359
And actually before that, there was a program called digital Darkroom.
546
00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:01.720
And in both cases, the people who were developing those
547
00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:05.720
programs asked my husband Jerry, if he would experiment with them,
548
00:29:05.720 --> 00:29:07.519
if he would be willing to do it, because he
549
00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:11.799
made in the dark room what could be seen as
550
00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:15.039
a precursor of a photoshopped image, but he used multiple
551
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:18.519
negatives and black and white images in the dark room
552
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:23.319
to make very surreal looking images. If you want, I
553
00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:25.799
can send you one of those or something. But anyway,
554
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:31.640
so the photoshop people actually were so excited to have
555
00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:33.640
him work with them that they said, why don't we
556
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:36.559
do a poster with one of your images on it,
557
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:38.720
but we want you to make the image in Photoshop,
558
00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:42.720
and in exchange for that, we would pay you ten
559
00:29:42.759 --> 00:29:46.160
thousand dollars, but instead we're going to give you the equipment,
560
00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:48.559
and it equals ten thousand dollars basically at that time,
561
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:50.519
like a really high end of what they had at
562
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:57.279
the time computer a Macintosh, and a scanner and you know,
563
00:29:57.319 --> 00:30:01.359
everything else that we would need. So Jerry was not
564
00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:04.519
a computer person, and he tried it and was sort
565
00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:06.759
of like, I think I'd rather make it in the
566
00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:09.480
dark room. But he did the poster image for them,
567
00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:13.240
and they sent someone from Adobe to work with us.
568
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:17.000
A guy named George Jardine came and worked with us,
569
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:20.680
and I sat there and read the whole manual and everything,
570
00:30:20.680 --> 00:30:22.680
because I thought, well, it's kind of interesting, and it's
571
00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:25.000
kind of in my office anyway, because he didn't want
572
00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:28.119
it at his desk. So it wasn't going so well.
573
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:29.880
It was a little slow, and Jerry wasn't sure what
574
00:30:29.960 --> 00:30:32.559
he wanted to make though, So the guy George said,
575
00:30:32.599 --> 00:30:34.559
why don't I leave and come back in two weeks,
576
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:36.759
And you know, he's from California, so he's like, I'll
577
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:38.440
leave and they'll come back in two weeks and then
578
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:41.400
we'll try to finish this up. So during those two weeks,
579
00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:43.519
I just spent the time playing with the program, which
580
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:46.039
had a very small manual back then, I think this
581
00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:50.559
was version two, and so you know, I could select
582
00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:53.240
things and darken them or make a little shadow for
583
00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:57.720
something or whatever, and it was fun and I grasped
584
00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:00.640
it right away and enjoyed it and started putting all
585
00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:04.119
my little objects on a scanner that they had there.
586
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:06.480
They thought Jerry was going to use the scanner to
587
00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:11.240
scan negatives or something, but she never really did, and
588
00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:14.480
so anyway, I just from that point on played with it.
589
00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:18.240
Galleries were super negative about it at the time, for
590
00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:21.759
the most part, saying, we like your photographs, we're selling
591
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:25.559
your photographs. That's going well. We don't want an inkjet print.
592
00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:28.440
We don't even know what that is. And our people
593
00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:32.640
won't like photoshop, our collectors won't like that. So probably
594
00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:37.559
from let's say nineteen ninety five, I started really experimenting
595
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:42.400
with it until it's about two thousand, I had a
596
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:44.799
kind of crossover period where what I made that I
597
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:50.440
cared about and showed in nonprofit spaces was digital work,
598
00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:54.119
and what I made to still continue selling in galleries
599
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:58.519
was more type see photographic prints, regular photographic work.
600
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:03.079
So at what point were you starting to make money
601
00:32:03.079 --> 00:32:05.319
out of this? When were the early sales? Was it
602
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:07.519
before they went into galleries.
603
00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:11.599
The earliest sales I had probably worse for some private
604
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:15.119
collectors that were also people who collected my husband's work
605
00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:18.400
and wanted to be supportive of me, I would say,
606
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:21.319
but I also spent a great deal of my time
607
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:25.519
in those years helping organize and help with his work,
608
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:28.559
you know, shipping and keeping a list of what was
609
00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:30.880
sent to a show or what was sent to a gallery,
610
00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:34.599
and doing the kind of business aspect of that. It
611
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:37.599
takes a lot of work, as you know, in the arts,
612
00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:39.119
it's not just oh, I'm going to sit here and
613
00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:41.720
make images all day. You have to do everything. You
614
00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:44.680
have to promote and be a business person, you know everything.
615
00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:49.960
So I started to have a gallery in New York
616
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:52.799
that was also a spin off from his career because
617
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:56.599
he showed with that gallery, and it was called Witkin Gallery,
618
00:32:56.680 --> 00:32:59.039
and they the woman who ran at Evelyn Dyes was
619
00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:02.200
very I did about my work and had a show
620
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:04.640
of it. I was like, wow, that's amazing. And then
621
00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:07.519
at some point I switched to a different gallery in
622
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:10.680
New York and that also went well, and that was
623
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:13.720
just with photographic work. And once I started doing the
624
00:33:13.720 --> 00:33:17.079
inkjet prints, that gallery was maybe because they were in
625
00:33:17.079 --> 00:33:19.240
New York and they were a little avant garde, they
626
00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:23.000
were willing to show the digital work. And so then
627
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:25.759
I never after two thousand I never went back to make,
628
00:33:26.119 --> 00:33:27.720
or maybe two thousand and one at the latest, I
629
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:29.119
didn't go back in the dark room again.
630
00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:31.960
Oh you didn't, and still not today.
631
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:34.279
No. I never liked the chemicals.
632
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:36.799
Did you miss it? No? I don't.
633
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:39.200
It's not the same as what people when you see
634
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:41.240
in the movies and everything, people working in a black
635
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:43.480
and white dark room and watching that magic of the
636
00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:47.519
image appear in the chemistry color. Isn't that way you
637
00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:49.440
put the paper, you expose it, You put it in
638
00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:52.319
a big plastic tube, you don't see it, and you
639
00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:55.039
pour in different stuff and rotate it around, and then
640
00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:58.559
it comes out and it's done so and it smells
641
00:33:58.599 --> 00:34:00.480
really bad, So I didn't miss that.
642
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:04.319
Yeah, it's very different with color, of course, But do
643
00:34:04.359 --> 00:34:05.680
you not use black and white?
644
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:09.400
Then No. From the first time that I switched to color,
645
00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:13.280
which would have been just before graduate school, so like
646
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:18.199
nineteen eighty four, after Yale and before graduate school, I
647
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:21.719
switched to color and that made me so much happier.
648
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:25.159
I'm a very color oriented person, so I did not
649
00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:27.880
want to work in black and white.
650
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:32.760
When do you feel like you're most connected to your work?
651
00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:36.960
And I'm wondering over time, you know, have you you
652
00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:40.280
know you'd become attached to, certainly the early pieces, What
653
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:41.519
does that look like for you?
654
00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:46.000
I actually think I'm most attached to the most recent
655
00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:50.800
ones because they're like the closest in your memory, and
656
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:53.440
you feel like you've really struggled with it over a
657
00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:56.119
course of weeks, and when you're finally done with it,
658
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:59.159
like I just finished something the other day that I've
659
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:01.320
been working on for or maybe three or three and
660
00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:06.440
a half weeks, and at the end, it's like coming
661
00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:09.320
down to very small changes. You know, do I want
662
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:11.800
to remove one element from this image, or do I
663
00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:14.199
want to change the color of one item? Just a
664
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:17.000
tiny five percent, or do I want to lighten the
665
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:19.800
background five percent? And so on, And at some point
666
00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:22.599
you just reach the point where you're over it. You
667
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:24.519
just have to walk away from it and say this
668
00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:26.440
is as good as it's going to be. I'm done
669
00:35:26.440 --> 00:35:28.719
with that. But then, for some reason, you feel an
670
00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:31.840
emotional bond with that piece because you feel like you
671
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:34.519
gave birth to it and it's exciting and there it
672
00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:37.440
is so but so for me, the most recent things
673
00:35:37.480 --> 00:35:41.840
are the ones that I feel most excited about. It's
674
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:43.519
not that often that I go back and look at
675
00:35:43.639 --> 00:35:48.000
my old work. Oh really, you don't, because unless somebody
676
00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:50.199
buys it, and then I have to deal with that.
677
00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:52.800
But no, I just I don't know. I like I
678
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:54.960
like the newer things. They're more exciting to me.
679
00:35:55.679 --> 00:36:00.159
Yeah, well, with new technology and old the tools that
680
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:02.960
you have at your disposal, Now, where do you get
681
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:06.519
your validation from then, Maggie, I don't know.
682
00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:09.000
I think I just like making art, and sometimes I think,
683
00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:12.559
as I'm getting older now and turning sixty five this year,
684
00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:15.239
I think I would be happy to continue to make
685
00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:19.440
art forever, and if it should happen that fewer galleries
686
00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:22.679
sell it and people aren't so interested in anymore. I
687
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:25.199
still want to make the art, So I think it's
688
00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:28.840
all about just wanting to be creative no matter who
689
00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:31.920
the audience is. And another thing is like, as a
690
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:35.239
visual artist, you often really don't know who your audience is,
691
00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:38.960
especially if you're sending things off to a gallery and
692
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:43.239
the gallery is selling them to their clients. It's extremely
693
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:45.599
rare that a gallery will actually even tell you who
694
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:48.800
the client is, unless maybe you have to ship directly
695
00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:54.199
to them for art emergency or something. But you know,
696
00:36:54.199 --> 00:36:57.559
if you're sending it off anyway, and yes, you get
697
00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:00.320
a check back in the mail if something sells, which
698
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:03.159
is always good, but especially if you want to buy
699
00:37:03.199 --> 00:37:07.039
a new computer or something. But I don't count on
700
00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:11.679
the sales or public speaking or teaching so much to
701
00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:15.639
be the most important aspect. So I guess the validation
702
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:18.360
to me is more about if I open up a
703
00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:20.159
folder and look at all the images I made in
704
00:37:20.199 --> 00:37:22.920
the last twelve months, I feel happy with that.
705
00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:27.480
Well, you know, given the process, the journey there that
706
00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:32.199
you described, I'm wondering when you've began to feel that
707
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:36.360
you as an artist were being seen and people were
708
00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:39.320
actually understanding you, as an artist.
709
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:43.480
That's a good question, I suppose. I mean, I did
710
00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:48.119
have some early success with some more straight photography galleries
711
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:51.599
when I was in that era, and I did get
712
00:37:51.679 --> 00:37:56.800
some invitations to do teaching in different you know, come
713
00:37:56.840 --> 00:37:58.679
to a school and teach for a week, or come
714
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:01.159
and teach a workshop. I did a lot of summer
715
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:05.480
workshops at places like Anderson Ranch in Colorado and Santa
716
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:11.320
Fe Workshops in New Mexico, and that made me happy,
717
00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:15.280
and I got my name out more. So I think
718
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:18.480
those were like, those were all stepping stones. But I
719
00:38:18.519 --> 00:38:22.360
also I did enter competitions in those early years where
720
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:25.119
you would send off slides thirty five millimeters slides of
721
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:28.239
your artwork and labeled and everything, and tried to say, oh,
722
00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:32.320
consider showing my work in your you know, university art
723
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:36.559
gallery and Toledo or whatever. I did that a lot,
724
00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:40.119
and I would say, and I still tell my students this.
725
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:45.039
From workshops, I get ninety nine percent rejection. If I
726
00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:48.159
sent out hundred things during the year, whether it's applying
727
00:38:48.159 --> 00:38:50.440
to be in a group show or have a solo show,
728
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:53.960
or get a grant or an award, I get one
729
00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:56.920
percent acceptance rate. And it's kind of always been that way,
730
00:38:57.480 --> 00:39:00.199
So these days I don't apply anyway because I think
731
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:03.960
I'm too old for that, and there are other more
732
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:07.559
deserving people who are really critical points in their career,
733
00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:11.199
people in their twenties and thirties or even forties who
734
00:39:11.480 --> 00:39:14.400
need that break, and so I don't apply for those
735
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:17.400
things anymore. So I'm just kind of happy sitting here
736
00:39:17.480 --> 00:39:18.519
making things.
737
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:22.159
When did you stop chasing, you know, as an artist
738
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:25.280
and trying to find yourself or make a point. At
739
00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:28.480
what point in your career did you feel like, Okay,
740
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:30.760
I'm where I need to be. I've made by point,
741
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:32.639
this is who I am, I'm established.
742
00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:35.199
I mean, I guess I got a certain amount of
743
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:38.599
recognition from teaching workshops that was good where to be
744
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:40.800
invited back every year or every other year to the
745
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:43.719
same places and know that the classes would fill and
746
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:47.960
people were excited to learn my techniques. And I did
747
00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:50.599
a book that was so back in two thousand and
748
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:54.440
four that was called an Adobe Photoshop Masterclass Book published
749
00:39:54.519 --> 00:39:57.920
with Adobe and peach Pit Press, and that was a
750
00:39:57.920 --> 00:40:00.119
big deal because then to have like your name and
751
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:03.039
be associated with Adobe in that way was very good.
752
00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:05.719
And over the years I also spoke quite a few
753
00:40:05.719 --> 00:40:10.440
times at events or Adobe things, so by then I
754
00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:13.519
guess I thought I definitely was one of the earlier
755
00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:16.000
people that just launched into it and used Photoshop for
756
00:40:16.119 --> 00:40:19.480
my art. And I don't know if it will work
757
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:23.679
out that way. With AI. The whole AI situation is
758
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:28.159
much less stable in the sense of they could decide
759
00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:32.159
tomorrow to discontinue the program I'm using. They could sell
760
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:34.760
it to Adobe or somebody else, or it could just
761
00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:38.400
disappear and not make money anymore. I don't think that
762
00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:41.000
will happen, but I have no control over it, so
763
00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:43.320
you know, we'll see. But I think that I would
764
00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:46.440
continue to use AI in some way, and I use
765
00:40:46.519 --> 00:40:50.760
chat GPT also just for fun things like brainstorming ideas
766
00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:51.239
and stuff.
767
00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:57.079
Who have become or who was your inspiration early on?
768
00:40:57.159 --> 00:41:01.039
In terms of artists and who who's work do you
769
00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:04.440
most admire now? I know you collect as well, So
770
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:06.800
what are you drawn to now and who would be
771
00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:11.400
your artist of choice? Well, I know a lot of
772
00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:14.639
photographic artists, so I would say that. For years, I
773
00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:17.639
was also on the board of the Society for Photographic Education,
774
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:20.320
which was a group that was comprised of people teaching
775
00:41:20.360 --> 00:41:23.880
photography and colleges and universities around the world, mostly in
776
00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:27.119
the US, but also international, and so I got to
777
00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:30.960
know a lot of people in the photography community that I.
778
00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:34.320
Respect and like a lot. And I would say probably
779
00:41:34.360 --> 00:41:37.639
sixty percent were all were women. Of the people that
780
00:41:37.719 --> 00:41:40.519
I interacted with on a regular basis. So there were
781
00:41:40.519 --> 00:41:43.920
people like Olivia Parker. That's her black and white image
782
00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:46.320
back there on the wall, that lower one right there.
783
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:51.400
She's someone that I took a workshop with way back
784
00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:55.840
when at Anderson Ranch and was an influence, and she's
785
00:41:56.239 --> 00:42:02.880
got amazing still life work, really beautiful. Who else then
786
00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:05.519
I meet young people. I normally go up to New
787
00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:08.119
York once or twice a year and there's a big
788
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:12.280
photography fair that happens actually next week, and a couple
789
00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:14.239
of years ago I met a young woman there and
790
00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:16.760
I'm fascinated by her work. Her name is Claire Rosen,
791
00:42:17.159 --> 00:42:21.119
and she takes in most cases, actual live animals and
792
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:23.199
makes them have a feast or a picnic. They could
793
00:42:23.239 --> 00:42:27.280
be hedgehogs or chickens, or goats or frogs or toads,
794
00:42:27.400 --> 00:42:32.039
and she creates these tableaus and makes these long horizontal
795
00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:37.159
images of incredible color and wild, crazy scenes with these animals,
796
00:42:37.719 --> 00:42:39.960
and she must have a lot of patience, and I
797
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:44.400
think it's just fascinating. So that sort of thing. What
798
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:48.599
else I like Cig Harvey's work. It's, you know, not
799
00:42:49.159 --> 00:42:53.360
manipulated photography, but it's incredibly well seen photography with gorgeous
800
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:56.320
color and emotion to it. So I like things that
801
00:42:56.360 --> 00:43:00.920
are pretty different from what I do too. What else
802
00:43:01.880 --> 00:43:07.079
I collect figurative ceramics, weird things like I have one
803
00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:09.840
downstairs that's by a woman named Linda Cordellis, and it's
804
00:43:09.880 --> 00:43:13.159
called The Wrath of Fawn and it's a little it's
805
00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:16.679
not so little. It's like a two foot tall white
806
00:43:16.719 --> 00:43:20.320
ceramic fawn that's been dipped in a really interesting way
807
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:23.000
in the glaze, and it's got a drop of blood
808
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:26.360
coming from its mouth with some sharp teeth. I like
809
00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:28.280
things like that that are just quirky and have a
810
00:43:28.360 --> 00:43:31.119
story to them. That one lives on my kitchen counter.
811
00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:35.039
Well, would you consider to be your kind of turning
812
00:43:35.079 --> 00:43:40.000
points in your career? Those milestones that have you know,
813
00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:42.920
at some point it might have been that you thought
814
00:43:43.159 --> 00:43:45.920
you weren't going to make it, and you had doubt
815
00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:48.920
in yourself and you know, you hear of artists having
816
00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:51.599
imposter syndrome and thinking that, you know, what are they
817
00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:55.800
doing here? They're not really artists, but there comes a
818
00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:59.760
time when something clicks and they are a major turning
819
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:02.239
point model stones what were they fore?
820
00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:07.679
You? Well, I mean one thing was I because I
821
00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:10.039
was married to Jerry for twenty five years and he
822
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:13.199
was a full time artist. He was a very good
823
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:17.880
role model, so in a way, I never thought about
824
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:21.000
quitting art. And he worked every day that he was
825
00:44:21.039 --> 00:44:23.679
home on his art every day all year long, in
826
00:44:23.719 --> 00:44:25.880
and out unless he was traveling somewhere to teach other
827
00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:28.719
people something about photography. So he was a very good
828
00:44:28.760 --> 00:44:31.840
role model. And I just always thought, yeah, this, I
829
00:44:31.880 --> 00:44:34.360
love doing this, so why would I stop doing it.
830
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:38.280
I might weave in and out with other activities more
831
00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:43.400
in particular gardening. So sometimes I can recall taking five
832
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:47.119
weeks off of doing any artwork and just remodeling stuff
833
00:44:47.119 --> 00:44:50.480
in the garden and cutting hedges and planting vegetables and
834
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:53.079
stuff like that, and I like that. I don't think
835
00:44:53.079 --> 00:44:55.679
it's bad to, you know, give yourself a break for
836
00:44:55.719 --> 00:44:59.360
a while and then come back to it. So but
837
00:44:59.519 --> 00:45:01.800
I never thought about just quitting it because I can't
838
00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:03.840
imagine anything else that I would want to do.
839
00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:07.360
What does the day look like for you? Then? If
840
00:45:07.400 --> 00:45:11.360
you're working on a project that can take months, that's
841
00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:13.920
a lot of dipping in and out and as you say,
842
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:16.519
garden time as well. Is there a typical day?
843
00:45:17.599 --> 00:45:20.039
I like to do something physical early because we live
844
00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:22.519
in a very hot climate here, so I like to
845
00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:25.119
be done with my exercise by nine and so that
846
00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:27.800
would either be going for a run or playing a
847
00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:30.880
tennis or just going swimming or something and doing something
848
00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:34.039
physical in the morning, and most days that's running or walking,
849
00:45:34.519 --> 00:45:39.320
and then have a snack and then come sit at
850
00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:42.280
my computer and start off usually doing my New York
851
00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:46.159
Times puzzles and doing email and get all those things
852
00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:47.840
out of the way, and then I'm just more in
853
00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:50.159
the mood to go ahead and open up whatever image
854
00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:54.119
it is that I'm working on. Quite often late in
855
00:45:54.159 --> 00:45:55.920
the day, I'll have my husband look at it, or
856
00:45:55.960 --> 00:45:57.639
I'll make a test print. When I get to a
857
00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:00.000
certain point with an image. We have a printer downstairs
858
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:02.360
and it's all networked here, so I can send it down.
859
00:46:02.679 --> 00:46:05.360
He makes the prints and runs the studio and the website.
860
00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:08.360
And all of that. So he'll make a print and
861
00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:10.679
then he marks it up with pencil. I mean, it's
862
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:12.519
just going to be a throwaway print anyway, because it's
863
00:46:12.519 --> 00:46:14.599
a test. So he marks everything on it that he
864
00:46:14.599 --> 00:46:17.000
doesn't like, and then he'll say, you're not going to
865
00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:19.760
like this. He finds all these little things with it
866
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:22.760
that he's like, this shadow doesn't make sense, or this
867
00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:26.000
you've got specs over here that are distracting or whatever.
868
00:46:26.519 --> 00:46:28.519
And I can see those things too, but it's kind
869
00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:31.400
of like nice to have someone else do that and
870
00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:33.760
look at it and help me find things. So it's
871
00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:38.559
a collaborative kind of thing. Then around I don't know,
872
00:46:38.599 --> 00:46:43.920
five or six o'clock, we cook, and ever since the pandemic,
873
00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:46.239
we don't go out much, so we cook. We eat
874
00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:49.320
three meals a day here together, the two of us.
875
00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:54.840
Given that it's a process, like so, I'm wondering where
876
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:58.079
the casuallyst comes from for your inspiration and if you
877
00:46:58.519 --> 00:47:01.360
in the midst of something to get other ideas coming
878
00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:03.679
flying in and out thinking, you know, so how do
879
00:47:03.719 --> 00:47:07.239
you how do you capture those other images in your
880
00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:11.320
mind that are evolving all the time, Meggie, and you know,
881
00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:13.840
just set them to one side whilst you're working on
882
00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:14.679
your current project.
883
00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:19.039
Well, mostly I write them down, but I don't keep
884
00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:22.000
a journal. I'm not a journaling person per se. But
885
00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:25.440
I just have, you know, a small little I don't
886
00:47:25.440 --> 00:47:27.559
think there's much in here right now, but I'll show you.
887
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:30.639
I have like things like this where I'll just start
888
00:47:30.679 --> 00:47:32.960
to write stuff down in this in this little notebook,
889
00:47:33.199 --> 00:47:36.000
and I keep it here and it tells me, you know,
890
00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:38.320
something that I think I'm going to work on. And
891
00:47:38.360 --> 00:47:40.400
once I do that one, I'll cross it off or
892
00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:43.880
turn to a new page. But I find when I
893
00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:46.679
write something down, it hardly ever ends up being a
894
00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:49.719
finished image. So but it leads me somewhere, it gets
895
00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:53.079
me started, and then in doing that, I might make
896
00:47:53.119 --> 00:47:55.199
a mistake or bring some other image in, or be
897
00:47:55.239 --> 00:47:59.079
working on something and realize, oh, well that's more interesting
898
00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:01.239
than what I was working on, and then I just
899
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:02.320
go in a different direction.
900
00:48:03.159 --> 00:48:06.159
You've mentioned how you were a fast reader. Of obviously
901
00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:09.760
that's a busy mind. Is it constantly busy in your mind?
902
00:48:10.360 --> 00:48:13.039
Yes? But I am a really good sleeper, Oh good
903
00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:17.119
to you. I can get over five hours of deep
904
00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:19.760
sleep according to my watch. So I think I'm kind
905
00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:23.800
of comatose sometimes, that's interesting.
906
00:48:24.679 --> 00:48:25.360
What are you reading?
907
00:48:26.239 --> 00:48:28.440
Oh, I read a lot of different things. I prefer
908
00:48:28.599 --> 00:48:32.800
people's biographies nonfiction, but I just read anything. I just
909
00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:36.119
got the new Lena Dunham biography and I haven't read
910
00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:39.360
that yet. I just came yesterday. But I read all
911
00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:42.400
kinds of stuff, and it could be science related or
912
00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:47.800
I don't read things like romance novels really unless somebody
913
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:49.360
I know wrote one, and then I'm curious and I
914
00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:52.800
want to read that. But no, just a variety of things.
915
00:48:53.679 --> 00:48:57.119
What do you feel most passionate about. I guess my
916
00:48:57.239 --> 00:48:58.800
husband good.
917
00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:02.440
Aunts, said Maggie watches the show afterwards.
918
00:49:03.039 --> 00:49:05.440
Oh, I'm sure he will. No. I mean, it's just
919
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:08.360
we got together when we were both fifty four years old,
920
00:49:08.599 --> 00:49:13.639
and it's been a thrilling adventure. I would say to
921
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:17.400
have a whole different sort of situation in life and
922
00:49:18.920 --> 00:49:20.760
to spend time with someone who likes to do a
923
00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:22.599
lot of the same things. We have a lot of
924
00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:26.159
weird stuff in common. We both had the exact same
925
00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:28.800
small sale boats growing up. We both grew up on
926
00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:33.519
the water with very similar families. Although he was over
927
00:49:33.559 --> 00:49:36.119
in Sweden and I was here and we're only four
928
00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:40.360
months apart in our age, so it's just an adventure
929
00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:43.599
every day to do stuff with him. And he quit
930
00:49:43.679 --> 00:49:47.679
his job teaching in Sweden and moved here and knew
931
00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:51.639
nothing about art, so then he likes technology though, so
932
00:49:51.679 --> 00:49:55.079
he's really educated himself in terms of being the great
933
00:49:55.280 --> 00:49:57.320
printer of all of my work and doing all the
934
00:49:57.360 --> 00:50:00.400
technical things on the website and communicating with gallery reason.
935
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:02.519
So he's my manager, is what he is.
936
00:50:03.800 --> 00:50:06.360
That's wonderful. And you have a step son.
937
00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:09.239
I have one steps on from my first marriage to Jerry,
938
00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:11.840
and I have one step son with Stan and so
939
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:14.320
I have a forty five year old stepson who lives
940
00:50:14.320 --> 00:50:16.719
about two minutes away from me, and we have two
941
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:20.519
little grandchildren there. And then I have a thirty two
942
00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:23.280
year old steps on who lives in Germany and is
943
00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:26.360
studying architecture getting a master's at the Bow House.
944
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:30.400
So now what's the most important thing for you is
945
00:50:30.519 --> 00:50:34.679
your career evolves as an artist. As we know artists,
946
00:50:34.719 --> 00:50:38.400
we have to create every day. I mean, it's just
947
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:41.920
something we have to be creative. Do you have a
948
00:50:42.039 --> 00:50:45.199
vision of, say the next few months, even the kind
949
00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:49.400
of goals much less the bucket list. Ultimately, what does
950
00:50:49.480 --> 00:50:51.400
life look like for you as an artist over the
951
00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:54.119
next little while here, maybe a year or two.
952
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:56.679
Well, one of the things that's really important to me
953
00:50:57.079 --> 00:51:01.000
is having another book, because I've on average, I've had
954
00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:04.119
a book about every five years. Sometimes there's been a
955
00:51:04.119 --> 00:51:07.440
few more sprinkled in there. But I feel like books
956
00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:11.559
are really the way to disseminate your work more way.
957
00:51:11.559 --> 00:51:12.920
More people are going to see it in a book
958
00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:15.960
than ever would in an actual gallery. Of course, there's
959
00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:18.360
online too, but that's not the same, and it's really
960
00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:22.039
important to me how the real prints look. So I
961
00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:25.199
would like to do another book, maybe in twenty twenty eight,
962
00:51:25.519 --> 00:51:27.719
and so that means I need to really get started
963
00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:31.480
working on that pretty soon. And in the past, I've
964
00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:34.039
done self publishing for the last few books because I
965
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:39.280
can maintain control. I tried working with existing publishers, but
966
00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:41.800
they wouldn't let me do things like have five different
967
00:51:41.800 --> 00:51:45.320
colored ribbons as bookmarket bookmarks in the book, or have
968
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:48.360
an embossed dust jacket with a cutaway cover, and all
969
00:51:48.440 --> 00:51:52.239
kinds of other little things. But so I don't know
970
00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:54.599
whether I'm going to go that route again, or maybe
971
00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:56.679
talk with a publisher if I find someone who's willing
972
00:51:56.719 --> 00:52:00.360
to do a sort of more upscale book. So that's
973
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:02.559
one thing that I have on in the back of
974
00:52:02.599 --> 00:52:06.199
my mind for sure. And then just every year, I
975
00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:08.719
definitely want to make at least twelve images each year,
976
00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:12.400
and if I could make fifteen, that would be great.
977
00:52:13.599 --> 00:52:15.599
You mentioned that to the end of each day, you
978
00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:20.119
and your husband stend cook dinner, which brings us to
979
00:52:20.840 --> 00:52:23.880
a fun part of the show where you get to
980
00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:27.920
invite six people living or dead, who you would invite
981
00:52:27.920 --> 00:52:30.119
to a dinner party. Now, first of all, would you
982
00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:33.519
both be entertaining? Now would this be like a kitchen
983
00:52:33.519 --> 00:52:37.480
supper or a formal dinner party and you both be
984
00:52:37.559 --> 00:52:38.920
hosting this, how would it look?
985
00:52:39.559 --> 00:52:41.840
Well, I'm not sure. This is it at my house?
986
00:52:42.760 --> 00:52:46.880
You tell me, Well, I was thinking. No, I was thinking,
987
00:52:46.880 --> 00:52:50.079
and I would like to go somewhere interesting and have
988
00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:52.880
a group of all women for dinner. Okay, So I
989
00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:56.480
probably would not invite my husband. That was my idea,
990
00:52:56.840 --> 00:53:00.719
is like a little bit techy. Well that I think
991
00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:05.599
we're a little bit formative people for me a little
992
00:53:05.639 --> 00:53:10.159
bit also who are interested in technology, and so maybe
993
00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:12.840
it would be at a nice restaurant in London or
994
00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:15.440
something like that. Everybody would come there and we would
995
00:53:15.440 --> 00:53:16.960
have a dinner. That's what I thought.
996
00:53:17.239 --> 00:53:18.239
I love that idea.
997
00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:21.239
So I mean, of course, there's so many different people
998
00:53:21.559 --> 00:53:23.280
it's hard to say, and I just thought, I'm going
999
00:53:23.320 --> 00:53:25.599
to limit myself to living people. I'm not picking any
1000
00:53:25.639 --> 00:53:29.280
dead ones, partly because I want to know what contemporaries
1001
00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:34.239
and contemporary people are thinking about technology or about art
1002
00:53:34.280 --> 00:53:39.039
and technology. And that could mean music or acting, or
1003
00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:43.880
it could it could be visual art. Right, So people
1004
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:47.320
I'm going to invite, first of all is Lori Anderson,
1005
00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:50.519
which was probably the first concert I ever went to
1006
00:53:50.559 --> 00:53:53.000
at the Brooklyn Academy of Music a long long time ago,
1007
00:53:53.119 --> 00:53:55.360
like back in the late seventies, it must have been
1008
00:53:55.360 --> 00:53:58.320
early eighties. So I would have Lori Anderson for sure.
1009
00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:05.840
And Patti Smith also because of just my history of
1010
00:54:05.920 --> 00:54:10.559
caring about her work. So Patti Smith, I like a
1011
00:54:10.599 --> 00:54:13.800
particular singer who's kind of unusual. But I also saw
1012
00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:16.480
her very early back in the late seventies or maybe
1013
00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:20.519
it was maybe it was early eighties, Amy Mann, So
1014
00:54:20.599 --> 00:54:23.079
I would invite Amy Mann. She's a singer, song she's
1015
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:26.840
a songwriter, singer, songwriter. Yeah, yeah, so I would invite her.
1016
00:54:27.679 --> 00:54:30.480
And so we have already some music there.
1017
00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:33.320
You have a lot of music, though I.
1018
00:54:33.199 --> 00:54:35.639
Wasn't intending to go so musical. But I also consider
1019
00:54:35.760 --> 00:54:38.599
Laurie Edison to be a visual artist, so that's kind
1020
00:54:38.599 --> 00:54:40.559
of good. And then here's where I got kind of lost,
1021
00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:43.480
because I thought, well, also want David Byrne there or
1022
00:54:43.480 --> 00:54:45.519
Paul Simon there, But then I thought, no, let's just
1023
00:54:45.559 --> 00:54:48.639
try to make it stay within the parameters or saying
1024
00:54:48.639 --> 00:54:52.360
it's just women. I think that's fine because also if
1025
00:54:52.360 --> 00:54:54.719
someone's a member of a couple, you feel like you
1026
00:54:54.760 --> 00:54:58.079
should invite the couple. And I don't know who some
1027
00:54:58.119 --> 00:55:00.480
of the people might bring with them, just staying with
1028
00:55:00.519 --> 00:55:04.599
these women. So one of my favorite actresses that I
1029
00:55:04.599 --> 00:55:08.440
think is very just offbeat and brilliant is Tilda Swinton,
1030
00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:11.880
so I would like to chat with her. That could
1031
00:55:11.880 --> 00:55:15.639
be fun. One of my favorite tech writers is Kara Swisher,
1032
00:55:15.639 --> 00:55:19.000
and I see that recently she's also writing about longevity,
1033
00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:23.159
which is kind of interesting, so I would definitely include her.
1034
00:55:23.480 --> 00:55:25.800
And then for my final person, I decided I want
1035
00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:28.119
one person that I know there, and I have a
1036
00:55:28.159 --> 00:55:33.840
really brilliant college room mate Eve Schuler, who is a
1037
00:55:33.880 --> 00:55:39.320
computer scientist, and she's really big into promoting women in
1038
00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:43.000
the sciences and particularly women in computer science. And she's
1039
00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:46.360
also very concerned about the environment, and she's running the
1040
00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:51.159
first PhD program at Oxford University for sustainable or about
1041
00:55:51.159 --> 00:55:55.440
sustainable computing and how people can be more careful and
1042
00:55:55.920 --> 00:56:00.559
sharing resources and not wasting resources. And I think she
1043
00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:04.760
is also she's a musician. She's an incredible musician and
1044
00:56:05.119 --> 00:56:08.119
a singer, so she would kind of also tie in
1045
00:56:08.199 --> 00:56:11.280
with these the musical vibe there.
1046
00:56:11.960 --> 00:56:13.760
Yeah, no, is this going to be a round table
1047
00:56:14.119 --> 00:56:16.199
or rectangle?
1048
00:56:17.239 --> 00:56:19.679
I think I go with a rectangle, although all the
1049
00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:21.880
tables in my house are around but I think I
1050
00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:24.519
would have her be a rectangle and let people get
1051
00:56:24.599 --> 00:56:27.079
up and move, like have have a first course of
1052
00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:30.559
you know something, and then get up and move. And
1053
00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:34.079
we would be eating some kind of seafood or vegetarian
1054
00:56:34.239 --> 00:56:36.559
and seafood things probably okay.
1055
00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:39.199
So would you set the menu or would you let
1056
00:56:39.199 --> 00:56:40.719
people choose individually?
1057
00:56:41.519 --> 00:56:43.000
Well, if we went to a restaurant, I guess they
1058
00:56:43.039 --> 00:56:45.559
can pick for themselves. That's fine.
1059
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:48.559
Now you mentioned that you're not the karaoke singer you're
1060
00:56:48.760 --> 00:56:52.000
you're not a singer yourself, and you've but you've got
1061
00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:55.000
a group of, as you say, women who are talented
1062
00:56:55.079 --> 00:56:59.119
musicians here as well. So I'm wondering, do you play
1063
00:56:59.320 --> 00:57:02.760
a musical By the way.
1064
00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:04.840
No, I don't play any musical instrument, and in fact,
1065
00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:08.679
I can't read music. So when I was little, I
1066
00:57:08.719 --> 00:57:11.559
took a few piano lessons, like maybe for less than
1067
00:57:11.719 --> 00:57:15.559
six months. I took piano lessons maybe at age twelve
1068
00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:19.960
or so, and I realized, looking at the music on paper,
1069
00:57:20.519 --> 00:57:22.440
it just does not make sense to me. It just
1070
00:57:22.519 --> 00:57:25.800
does not compute. I cannot read those lines and those notes,
1071
00:57:26.159 --> 00:57:29.800
and yet you have a scientific mind. I love math.
1072
00:57:29.880 --> 00:57:32.519
I got a perfect score on the Math SAT, but
1073
00:57:32.760 --> 00:57:35.679
I do not understand the notation for the music at all.
1074
00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:39.840
Just it's like I'm dyslexic in blind in a way
1075
00:57:39.880 --> 00:57:42.679
to that. So what I did for my piano lessons
1076
00:57:42.840 --> 00:57:46.960
is I just memorized from one through eighty eight. I
1077
00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:49.199
would just figure it out and write the string of
1078
00:57:49.280 --> 00:57:51.280
numbers for myself. So when I would go in and
1079
00:57:51.280 --> 00:57:53.079
play for the man who was my teacher, and this
1080
00:57:53.159 --> 00:57:57.159
awkward building and upright piano, I just I pressed it right.
1081
00:57:57.239 --> 00:57:59.119
I just knew it was like forty seven, forty seven,
1082
00:57:59.239 --> 00:58:01.679
fifty two and this one, And I had numbers for
1083
00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:03.280
all the keys and I could remember them.
1084
00:58:03.920 --> 00:58:06.159
That's a photographic.
1085
00:58:05.559 --> 00:58:09.480
Memory, yeah, so, or a number memory. I also remember
1086
00:58:09.800 --> 00:58:12.840
almost every phone number I've had to dial, particularly if
1087
00:58:12.840 --> 00:58:16.400
it's one I've dialed multiple times. I have thousands of
1088
00:58:16.440 --> 00:58:19.639
phone numbers. I can remember the phone number of my
1089
00:58:19.760 --> 00:58:23.159
mom's old place called the mutt Hut where she would
1090
00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:25.960
board her dogs. Like, who would need that information? But
1091
00:58:26.440 --> 00:58:28.320
they're just numbers sticking there.
1092
00:58:29.239 --> 00:58:32.079
That's brilliant. Who does that today? I mean, remember old
1093
00:58:32.159 --> 00:58:37.480
numbers and everything's saved for us. I'm wondering, though, once
1094
00:58:37.519 --> 00:58:39.239
you've had this dinner, and this is going to be
1095
00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:43.159
a wonderful group of women enjoying the dinner. And if
1096
00:58:43.199 --> 00:58:46.599
it's in London, there's a host of clubs there that
1097
00:58:46.679 --> 00:58:49.519
you could go to and have some real fun, real
1098
00:58:50.119 --> 00:58:54.079
you know, nightclub night out. Would that be something that
1099
00:58:54.079 --> 00:58:57.760
would appeal to you? Go dancing with these girls? Oh?
1100
00:58:57.880 --> 00:59:01.559
Yes, I love dancing, music and dancing, and I'm a
1101
00:59:01.559 --> 00:59:03.960
big fan of all kinds of music, especially rock and roll.
1102
00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:06.440
I'm really good at rock and roll trivia too. But
1103
00:59:06.679 --> 00:59:10.440
I adore dancing. I never miss an opportunity to go
1104
00:59:10.599 --> 00:59:13.559
if there's dancing involved. And in fact, we just dance
1105
00:59:13.639 --> 00:59:17.000
here in our house on a fairly regular basis, either
1106
00:59:17.199 --> 00:59:19.400
the two of us or with friends. After we've had dinner.
1107
00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:21.280
We just pushed the couches back in the living room
1108
00:59:21.280 --> 00:59:21.719
and dance.
1109
00:59:22.639 --> 00:59:26.480
Is that a superpower? You're dancing? Then? In your number memory?
1110
00:59:27.800 --> 00:59:29.480
Are we looking at two superpowers?
1111
00:59:30.199 --> 00:59:32.079
Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't say that the dancing is
1112
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:34.480
a superpower. I'm not saying other people are impressed by
1113
00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:37.159
the dancing. I'm saying the dancing makes me feel great.
1114
00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:39.119
Is there a superpower another one?
1115
00:59:39.679 --> 00:59:44.800
Uh No, not really. I like the color green. I
1116
00:59:44.840 --> 00:59:48.920
don't know. And actually, in terms of music, I am.
1117
00:59:49.119 --> 00:59:52.280
I'm going next week to see Jazz Fest in New Orleans,
1118
00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:54.960
which is also a great opportunity to just hang out
1119
00:59:54.960 --> 00:59:55.440
and dance.
1120
00:59:56.360 --> 01:00:01.119
It certainly is. Well, that'll be a wild time. Well, Maggie,
1121
01:00:01.159 --> 01:00:03.559
thank you so much for sharing your story with us.
1122
01:00:03.599 --> 01:00:06.239
It's been a lot of fun and really interesting to
1123
01:00:06.280 --> 01:00:09.119
hear about your work and how you create the art
1124
01:00:09.159 --> 01:00:11.360
that you do. So long may it continue.
1125
01:00:11.840 --> 01:00:14.280
Thank you, it's been fun talking to you and I
1126
01:00:14.320 --> 01:00:16.920
look forward to seeing other episodes of your podcast.
1127
01:00:17.239 --> 01:00:20.079
Thank you, and remind everybody before we go how they
1128
01:00:20.079 --> 01:00:22.920
can find you online your websites and social media.
1129
01:00:23.360 --> 01:00:27.480
It's Maggie Taylor dot com and I'm on there. On
1130
01:00:27.880 --> 01:00:30.679
Instagram it's Maggie Taylor dot art. I guess they put
1131
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:33.079
the at symbol first at Maggie Taylor dot art.
1132
01:00:33.599 --> 01:00:36.519
And the galleries that you're being shown up now as well,
1133
01:00:36.559 --> 01:00:38.239
we'll put those in our show notes.
1134
01:00:38.559 --> 01:00:40.519
Okay, Well, there are quite a few of them. I
1135
01:00:40.559 --> 01:00:47.519
mean there's one in Australia, one in Beijing, California, Santa Fe,
1136
01:00:47.599 --> 01:00:49.679
New Mexico. There's lots of different ones and they're all
1137
01:00:49.679 --> 01:00:52.760
listed on my website too, so there are quite a
1138
01:00:52.760 --> 01:00:55.960
few of them around the country and in different countries too,
1139
01:00:56.079 --> 01:01:00.280
one in Madrid. So yeah, never know. I have a
1140
01:01:00.280 --> 01:01:02.599
show coming up in the fall and Daytona Beach that's
1141
01:01:02.639 --> 01:01:05.320
in this big museum of photography over there called the
1142
01:01:05.360 --> 01:01:08.480
Southeast Museum of Photography. So that's another thing I have
1143
01:01:08.559 --> 01:01:11.719
to work on soon for the rest of this summer,
1144
01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:12.920
is getting stuff ready for that.
1145
01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:17.119
Well, your family must be very proud now you're truly
1146
01:01:17.159 --> 01:01:18.400
an international artist.
1147
01:01:19.079 --> 01:01:20.599
Maybe so I.
1148
01:01:20.559 --> 01:01:21.480
Don't know what to say.
1149
01:01:21.639 --> 01:01:25.559
We don't stay around and talk about that, you know,
1150
01:01:26.119 --> 01:01:28.519
It's just something I do. And I think a lot
1151
01:01:28.559 --> 01:01:30.639
of people think it's weird that you don't have a
1152
01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:34.639
more normal job, but I like this job, so it's okay.
1153
01:01:35.159 --> 01:01:38.079
Well, it certainly worked out for you, Maggie. Congratulations on
1154
01:01:38.119 --> 01:01:40.119
the career you've had and good luck for the future.
1155
01:01:40.159 --> 01:01:42.159
And again, thank you for taking time to come on
1156
01:01:42.199 --> 01:01:42.519
the show.
1157
01:01:42.840 --> 01:01:45.559
Okay, thanks so much, and thank.
1158
01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:48.039
You for listening. Of course, you can reach us on
1159
01:01:48.119 --> 01:01:50.760
Instagram as well at the Art Podcast, and we're on
1160
01:01:50.800 --> 01:01:53.760
YouTube if you're listening on your podcast app. Of course,
1161
01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:56.039
don't forget to hop over to YouTube and watch us there.
1162
01:01:56.119 --> 01:01:59.079
Give us a like and a follow, subscribe, download all
1163
01:01:59.079 --> 01:02:01.760
of those things, and jerra with anyone you think might
1164
01:02:01.840 --> 01:02:04.440
enjoy it too. I'll be back in two weeks time
1165
01:02:04.559 --> 01:02:08.199
with another wonderful creative woman artist, so do join me. Then,
1166
01:02:08.360 --> 01:02:09.239
thank you for listening.