WEBVTT
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Welcome to the With All Your Mind Podcast.
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This podcast exists as a resource and a part of the ministry at Commonplace Church or Mental Health Ministry.
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If you'd like to learn more about the church or about the ministry itself, visit up commonplacechurch.org.
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Hope you enjoyed this conversation.
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Hello, and welcome back to With All Your Mind.
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I'm Walter F.
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Rodriguez, and with me are my co-hosts, Dr.
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Mark McNear and Pastor Kirk Ruprecht.
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Welcome back.
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Hello.
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Welcome.
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Welcome back.
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That's crazy.
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I think that's probably the most appropriate statement to make because uh it's been a while.
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It's been a little bit.
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It's been some time.
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We don't ever define it, you just say some.
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It's been some time since we've had the opportunity to do that.
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Do you still say it's been a minute?
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I say it.
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Yeah.
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I say it.
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I often add the hot, the hot minute descriptor.
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I never really Is there a cold minute?
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Yeah, I don't know what it actually means when you add it on there, but I do it sometimes.
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It's for warmth.
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Yes.
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But yeah, it's been a while since we've gotten to get together to record and to spend this time together as friends.
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Um, as those who care deeply about the world of mental health and care deeply about the people who take their time out to listen to this podcast.
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So we're grateful for you that you're here.
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Um, and we hope that maybe you find it beneficial.
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Or maybe you're just you want to hear a train wreck and you're like, Man, let me tune into this week's train wreck.
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Um, but welcome all audiences.
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Exactly.
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Whatever the reason is that draws you to us, um, it's been too long.
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We've missed you guys.
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Um, so actually, before we jump into any of the topics for today, maybe it would be good to just catch up, catch up on where we are in life and catch up with all of you guys too.
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So, gents, uh, let's catch up.
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What has been happening since we last recorded an episode which was uh 1940?
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I was gonna say early 2000s.
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Well, we we took off for the summer.
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Yeah, and I can speak for myself.
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I was in Wyoming for a couple weeks.
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I have been continuing to work on the other podcast, and so that's been going well.
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And can we plug it?
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Sure.
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Okay, yeah.
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I was like, I think you're allowed to say the name.
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Yeah, we're not it's not like NDA or anything like that.
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The the podcast that will not be named, right?
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What's your what's your other podcast, Mark?
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So my other podcast is Trauma Meets Recovery Podcast.
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Check it out.
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And so that's been exciting, and Debbie and I had a wonderful summer together.
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That's awesome.
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So it was nice and it seemed like it went fast, didn't it?
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Yeah.
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Too fast.
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Really fast.
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Ugh.
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Yeah, I didn't feel like it went fast.
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I was glad.
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You know, I was looking at Kirk's face and he and he's like, I wanted to agree.
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Yeah, it was almost like his face was telling me, like, no, you're wrong.
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No, it was uh it felt uh extra extra this year.
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Felt a little extra.
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Yeah.
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Um, let's see.
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For me, I did end up getting into the World Cup, which was strange.
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I didn't expect that to be my uh Did you fit inside the World Cup?
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You were attempted to or you were part of it or you were watching it?
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No, well, I think I don't know.
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I mean, if you're are you part of it by watching it, I'm not sure.
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Like you could put it in, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I was involved somehow.
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Yeah, by tuning in.
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I know several people that are coaches of the New Jersey Jets, uh the New York Jets, um, just because they stand up and they they call plays and they yell at the players.
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Yeah, that's so that probably fit into that.
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I was like the Ted Lasso.
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Yeah, yeah.
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It was it was an exciting World Cup.
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Very uh unpredictable.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I was not expecting to get in like to like it, and I did.
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Yeah, good.
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Wow.
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So another four years I'll I'll watch it again, I guess.
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Um, but yeah, what else?
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Uh it was a it was a summer for me of like recovery, like like just really I felt a little burned out going into the summer.
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So spent some time uh just trying to rest and uh prepare for uh a change in our um in our home as my my son has uh just recently gone to college and that was a big uh shift and a very different uh we we look very different.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Um there's there's a lot of females currently in the house, even even the dog.
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Um so but it's good, you know, it's just uh we miss him, but he's doing the right thing.
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So what would be three words you would use to describe it?
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The summer or or him leaving?
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Him leaving.
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Oh, three words is all I get.
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I'll give you four.
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Uh I'll give you four.
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Uh exciting.
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Um let's see.
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Exciting as well, but uh hard uh yeah, uh challenging.
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Um and it's it's sad, I'm not gonna lie.
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Yeah.
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So I guess all those bittersweet probably would have been just two words that would have worked well.
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No, he gave you four, so I think you're still within.
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I think he threw me off with three.
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I was like three.
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Um yeah, it's uh it's just a chapter, you know, we've talked about this even in the podcast, like just different chapters and seasons, and um yeah, so it's been a a different one for for us.
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Yeah, it's it's a good one, right?
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But it's also, you know, it's we are we hold a lot of those things intention.
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Yeah.
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That's kind of how we exist.
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We try to exist as humans.
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It's wise that you are acknowledging that you're holding things in tension.
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I think we often do.
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Yeah.
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How about you?
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I I'm still in the season of burnout.
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I feel like uh the summer was just kind of careening downhill.
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Um, not in the in the actual downhill sense, but in the the speed of everything.
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It was a lot to do.
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Uh everything has been just tight deadlines, crazy, crazy hours of work.
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So um, for a big chunk of the summer, I was like pulling 70, 80 hours a week and it was draining.
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So I did feel like it went really quickly, but I felt every minute of that, at least my body did.
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So um trying to move now into a season of recovery a little bit and uh just trying to be wiser in allocating my time.
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I think I've always taken on a lot.
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And now recently with uh Ashley and with Maddie and those responsibilities that come with that, I want to have the time to really be present there.
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Um, and that comes with cutting back on other things, and it's hard for me because I am very much a people pleaser and I want to try to do all of the things that people expect me to do, but yeah, it's it's just unsustainable.
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So I'm just trying to take a look at things and figure out where I can cut back and just kind of reinvest things in in other ways, some of that energy.
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So learning, um yeah, and uh also scared at the cost of college.
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$75,000 a year.
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We're looking at one of the schools, it's that's crazy.
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It's insane.
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That's insane.
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Yep.
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I don't know.
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It's a whole I don't know how to podcast we can unpack.
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Yeah, well, if you guys listening have any tips on how to pay for college, please let us know.
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I've looked into selling body parts and things like that, you know, whatever I can.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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When I start mowing a lot of lawns, I don't even so yeah, but it's uh it's good to be back with everybody, good to catch up a little bit.
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Oh man, my voice is going away.
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I think I'm getting too emotional.
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You guys reunited.
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No, it's a 75,000.
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Oh, yeah.
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That'll do it.
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I gotcha.
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That'll choke me up.
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For sure.
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Oh man, is dining and dashing a thing for study and run?
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I don't know.
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Just show up for classes.
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You belong here?
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I don't know.
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But um, yeah, so we're gonna talk about a topic that's we're gonna be exploring it over the next few weeks.
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And um, we've touched on this in other um in other episodes that we've done before, but uh the idea is we're gonna talk about attachment of being attached, of clinging.
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So you might be wondering, how does being attached clinging, how does that connect to our mental health journeys?
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And well, it's a good question.
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Um, we're gonna start with this idea of attachment.
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Like I mentioned, we've spoken about it throughout the uh podcast, but we want to take the time to really unpack uh what it is, and it's this thing called attachment theory.
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Um, so we'll spend a few weeks looking at it and um the different individual styles that are attached to uh to this theory.
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Attachment, yeah, attachment theory.
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The attachments are attached.
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That's good.
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Uh but at the the base level, it's a theory in psychology and developmental informative processes as the way that we attach to our caregivers, to our parents, or guardians as an infant, right?
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Um, so as you're growing up, as you're developing as a human being, what do those relationships to your guardians, your parents, your caregivers, what do those look like?
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And then how does that manifest later in life?
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So a more formal definition is attachment theory is a psychological framework stating that early emotional bonds between infants and primary caregivers shape lifelong patterns of trust, intimacy, and emotional regulation.
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So, you know, no huge impacts from our infancy.
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That's don't need that at all.
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Doesn't matter whatsoever.
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Yeah.
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You can shake the baby.
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That's right.
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So patterns of trust, emotional regulation, all of that is really, really vital.
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Um, and over the next few weeks, we're gonna dive into this theory and how it may be impacting or how it is impacting us um in our lives today.
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So we're gonna start by looking at the things that we cling to.
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Maybe it's our job, maybe it's another person, um, maybe it is a hobby, something that we feel defines us.
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Um, maybe we attach ourselves to a certain talent or ability that we believe helps us to stand out or gives us an identity.
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Um, so from that first conversation point, guys, are there things in your life that you might consider that you are attached to?
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Maybe healthy, possibly unhealthy relationship.
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Hmm.
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Who wants to kick this one off?
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Let's see.
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Uh I'm gonna say eating, I eat at least once a day.
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I'm pretty attached to that hobby of mine.
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Um about uh I got a hot one.
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How about our phones?
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That was just that's what popped in my head immediately.
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It's like I'm too attached to my phone.
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Yeah, yeah, there's an unhealthy relationship there.
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I agree.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Right.
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I mean, you know you're attached to it too when you like misplace it or when you or recently my phone has decided to like stop charging.
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Like I don't know.
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Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And I'm like panicking.
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I'm like, what if the battery, what if it's unable to charge again?
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Yeah, and I'm like, like, I don't know, can I go on?
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Can I can I keep existing?
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It's like it's okay, this might be an issue, right?
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The phone dies and I die.
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Yes, that's it, that's the end of me, you know.
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Um but I think yeah, I think like phone probably is an unhealthy one.
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Um I think relationally at times I can fall into like uh you know, potentially like codependency stuff, which is probably the unhealthy form of you know connection.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So that's something that I think I I've been made aware of.
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I didn't it's something you don't recognize at first.
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Like, oh this is a codependent relationship typically.
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Yeah.
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At least in my you know, my uh journey.
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So I think that's been something that's been recognizing.
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Yeah.
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Like and that goes back to even like people pleasing, right?
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A lot of that is like trying to, you know, make sure that there's a an attachment that people are still wanting to be present with you, right?
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Yeah.
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Because you're you're you're doing the right thing or you're you're you know, uh what's the word?
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You're available or you're um you know, uh capable.
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What is a better word I can't think of?
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But uh you are reliable, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Um so I think those are things.
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I think as far as like even um things like uh gifts or talents and things like that too, I'm sure there's there's moments of like that's who you know, I'll use that so I can be noticed about who I am, right?
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And so I'm kind of like attached to that.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, and I think the danger with this uh topic is to look at it and to pathologize.
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You know, uh I agree with you with codependency and I tend to struggle with it a lot, but uh, you know, that idea that relationships are good, and so we don't want to get like go to the other extreme where we're like, okay, I just need to not have any relationships because I think that we tend to look at it and then kind of like demonize it and be like, no, no, no, we got we got I we gotta get rid of every relationship.
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And it's like no, there is a middle road, yeah, and and as we talk about attachment, even in looking at that, you know, there's extremes at times, but those extremes probably protected us tremendously at an earlier age, and so it's a matter of just adjusting and becoming aware of that's great, but yeah, yeah, dialing it in and that's yeah, figuring out the right the right amount, the healthy amount.
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Yeah, right.
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We're going back to like what you said I did okay as holding with holding tensions, right?
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I think that's what we're talking about here too.
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We tend to culturally we tend to polarize and we tend to go extremes.
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Like that just feels like the right thing to do.
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Right, right.
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That's not necessarily how our complex human existence works.
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Yeah.
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You know, and the other thing is that when we look at these, we don't need to label ourselves and take that on as our identity because that's not our identity.
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It's part of us, but it's not the totality of who we are.
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That's good.
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Yeah, and you should be a doctor, Mark.
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That's great.
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One day.
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I'll be a real boy.
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So, okay, doctor.
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Is there a difference between an addiction and an attachment?
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Is it just semantic or is there like a shadow version versus a healthy sign?
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Well, I think that that attachment can lead to addiction, but not all attachment is addiction.
00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:26.399
You know, when you go to extremes, whether you whether you talk about attachment to things or to people, you know, I think that when we talk about in psychology attachment theory, we're talking about our relationship with other individuals.
00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:32.799
We're not really talking about things like drugs or alcohol or gambling or shopping or things like that.
00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:33.200
Right.
00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:33.679
Right.
00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:34.480
That's good.
00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:41.200
And so if you're talking about it and it's only towards people, is there such a thing as being addicted to a person?
00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:42.879
Like clinically, is that a thing?
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.799
Well, there wouldn't be like a clinical, you know, definition.
00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:48.639
We talk about codependency, right?
00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:58.000
You know, the the extreme of feeling like you need a person and becoming very possessive of them or them becoming possessive of you.
00:14:58.559 --> 00:14:59.919
You know, that that's part of it.
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:01.279
It's on a spectrum though.
00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:19.679
And I I think that all of us have had that experience when we've been in junior high or high school, where we've wanted, you know, whether whether it be same same sex, you know, relationships or or whether it be opposite sex that, you know, we we don't we feel insecure, and so we want those people to be ours.
00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:20.559
Right, right.
00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:22.480
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:24.720
See, I told you he makes sense, Kurt.
00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:27.440
I feel like we're uh attached to Mark in this.
00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:28.159
Yeah, we are.
00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:29.679
We're very attached to you, sir.
00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:32.080
So here's another question.
00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:34.159
Doxins, you're uh one for one.
00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:41.440
Can we still find comfort in an attachment even if the person that we're attached to is bringing about dysfunction or the potential for harm?
00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:49.120
So can you still find comfort in someone who is toxic or or not healthy for you?
00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:57.200
Yeah, I think that we've all had those experiences with individuals where we didn't realize how unhealthy the relationship was.
00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:03.200
And then as we've moved away from it, we kind of ask ourselves, like, what was that all about?
00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:13.840
But I think that sometimes we get addicted to chaos, and sometimes either we we provide the chaos or somebody else provides the chaos, and we don't even know about it.
00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:22.240
And they talk about when you've come from a chaotic home, peace feels very, very uncomfortable, security feels very, very uncomfortable.
00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:28.960
So we tend to gravitate toward individuals that will be representative of our family of origin.
00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:31.440
That's really good.
00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:32.320
Yeah.
00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:40.960
Yeah, because comfort then becomes almost synonymous with um prior experience with um yeah.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:47.919
How often does like family of origin play a role in developing attachment theory style like styles?
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:50.320
Yeah, I I would say 100% of the time.
00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:55.440
Unless unless you change the the legacy, the behavior.
00:16:55.759 --> 00:17:06.160
The other thing is like, you know, I would say that maybe change it from family of origin, which which is synonymous in some ways with your primary caretakers.
00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:14.480
You know, so if it's your mom and dad, they're definitely gonna dictate your attachment styles and influence them greatly.
00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:23.440
But if for some reason your parents are not there and it's an aunt or uncle or s or somebody else, then they're going to influence it.
00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:25.680
So it's it's your primary caregivers.
00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.920
But I was thinking like does it continue up generationally generationally?
00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:33.039
You know, like is like is it just is it pattern, typically pattern?
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:38.319
Is that like uh or does that change with like environments versus nature versus nurturers that you're asking with that?
00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:42.960
Um well I'm thinking like yes, your parents have created that, but then what about their parents?
00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:44.240
Oh, I I think my same.
00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.079
Yeah, I I think unless work has that's such a good question.
00:17:48.319 --> 00:18:03.119
I think unless work has been done, it tends to be generation after generation, and so your mom and dad learned it from their moms and dads, and so it gets diluted a little bit because it's a a cast of characters that's a little bit different.
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:10.480
Sure, because you have like four grandparents, and so you know, that idea it definitely influences it.
00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:12.559
Temperament seems to influence it too.
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:19.759
But the good news, and that's like what we want to kind of talk about after we talk about the types, is that it can change.
00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:21.039
Yeah, it definitely can.
00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:27.680
And uh, you know, uh attachment styles, it's not like you have one attachment style period.
00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:33.119
It's not like you carry around this this for the rest of your life, and this is you know, this attach or whatever.
00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:33.759
Yeah, right.
00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:36.079
It it it can be different with different people.
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:43.519
And so just for people to think about, there's there is a um an individual and we'll give her name.
00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:45.359
I can't think of it now, I gotta look at it.
00:18:45.599 --> 00:19:02.400
But uh Diane Pooler Heller uh Diane Heller Pool, I think it is, and she's an expert, and there's some test that she has on the internet, and she makes the point that when you take it, you have to take it for each person in your life.
00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:11.039
You can't just take one, you know, person, like, okay, I'll take it for Kirk, and then that'll apply to Debbie, it'll apply to Emily, you know, it'll apply to everyone in my life.
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:11.920
No, no, no.
00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:14.000
It it is different for every person.
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:15.440
You have different really, yeah.
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:16.319
Interesting.
00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:16.880
Okay.
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:27.599
I don't think, and I mean, this is kind of happens all the time, but I I don't think that's the way that it's really talked about in kind of pop culture when you're talking about attachment styles.
00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:33.359
I think um the way that I've heard it talked about in the past is what is your attachment style?
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:34.400
And that's that's it.
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:38.319
Like whatever that one is, that's what they kind of expect you to.
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:40.720
Yeah, that's I I agree with that.
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:49.599
Like, because I was is there a prime like are there like primary attachment styles versus like like I don't this is all inquiry of putting Mark at the bus or something?
00:19:50.000 --> 00:20:08.559
There's a lot of gray areas, but we talk about the four primary, which we can cover in a few minutes, you know, and and people are familiar with them maybe with different names, but but that idea that you know you're securely attached and that's on a continuum, it doesn't mean you are just securely attached because everybody has insecurities.
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:12.559
And then you have like avoidant attachment, and we'll talk about that.
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:20.480
You talk about anxious, uh ambivalent attachment, and then you talk about disorganized attachment.
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:27.839
And and again, I just want people to hear you might be avoidant with one person and be disorganized with another.
00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:31.519
So it just doesn't follow suit that you're that way with everyone.
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:34.799
That is important to know, yeah.
00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:36.240
Yeah, that is really good.
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:39.680
So I'm gonna I'm gonna do my best mark impression here.
00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:45.599
What feelings or emotions come up in your body and mind when it comes to the thought of severing from something?
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:46.480
How did I do?
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:46.880
I don't know.
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:48.960
Two marks here.
00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:49.519
This wild.
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:51.119
Hey, you you're doing good.
00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:53.519
So so I just want to go back for a minute.
00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:55.039
Yeah, Diane Poole Heller.
00:20:55.359 --> 00:21:02.799
Pool Heller O O L E Heller, and uh she's on the internet and there's an attachment quiz, and we can put that, I guess, in the show notes.
00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:04.160
And you can't fail the quiz, right?
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:05.039
No, no, no.
00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:06.960
I don't like I don't think so.
00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:09.680
No, you can't open book quiz.
00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:20.000
You know, but it but it but it's the idea that with all of these things, we don't want to like pigeonhole and we don't want to be like, okay, this is how you are, and you're gonna be like that the rest of your life.
00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:26.880
We want it to be something where you can become curious about why you feel different, and that's a good point, Walter.
00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:32.480
How do you feel in your body when you are around one person and then somebody else?
00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:33.440
How do you feel?
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:36.559
And and just monitoring that because you will feel different.
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:37.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:39.200
That is so true.
00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:43.839
There's there are people that make me feel safer, and then I feel probably closer.
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:52.000
I did definitely think my primary attachment style is secure, but I feel closer to that um with certain people, and then you know, different ones with others.
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:52.960
So that makes sense.
00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:55.599
All right.
00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:59.759
So when it comes to things like the trauma we've experienced.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:09.359
Experience, the losses we've encountered, maybe we'd find peace or joy if we were able to detach from difficult moments to sever ourselves from them.
00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:16.559
And that that word severing has gained popularity with the Apple TV show of that title, Severance, starring Adam Scott from Parks and Wreck.
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:20.720
But the concept is that these employees work for a company called Lumen.
00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:27.359
And what happens is each employee is given this microchip thing, and uh there they're detached from the person they are at work.
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:31.279
Um, that person is detached or severed from the life they live outside of their job.
00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:35.279
So the innie exists within the office and has a life inside there.
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:41.039
And when they leave the office, there comes the outie, the version of themselves that they are in the the rest of the world, right?
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:48.400
Um and these two versions are unable to connect to one another given this operation that has taken place, this severance of the person as a whole.
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:52.160
I don't want to give away the whole plot and the storyline, totally worth a watch.
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:55.680
And the show is fascinating because it addresses a lot of different themes.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:58.400
One, of course, is that work-life balance thing, right?
00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:11.519
But the other is this idea of attachment, being attached to the moments in our lives that we just don't want to have to think about, the tragedies, the wounds, the losses, and how much we long to not have to cling to or to be triggered back towards those moments.
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:13.279
So let's explore here.
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:18.720
Should we be in favor of something like severing the attachments of trauma and harm, like the show is attempting to do?
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:21.839
Um, so is that something that we should long for?
00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:24.559
Like, man, I remember a horrible memory in fourth grade.
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.759
If I could just lob that off, would that be healthy for us, Mark?
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:29.440
Is that I don't know.
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:31.200
Well, that would be awesome to do.
00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:36.559
It's just it's just impossible to do because it is lodged in your nervous system.
00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:37.599
That's good enough.
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:41.519
And so, you know, it's it's not even a choice, really.
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:42.319
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:46.000
So it's like just all fantasies you're saying.
00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:46.640
This is a good idea.
00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:48.559
Wait, who are you saying television is fake?
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:49.839
It might be it might be.
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:51.359
I thought this was reality TV show.
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:58.880
Yeah, so I remember our first episode we talked about good mental health is reality at any cost.
00:23:59.039 --> 00:23:59.119
M.
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:00.400
Scott Peck said that.
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:08.799
And I think that you know, so many people come into sessions and go, you know what, if I could just get rid of triggers, my life would be wonderful.
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:13.599
And it's like, yeah, but that's part of your nervous system.
00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:18.319
And and so your triggers have a lot to teach you if you can become curious.
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:18.880
Yeah.
00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:19.680
Yeah.
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:21.599
You don't you don't look sold on that, Walter.
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:23.599
I wish they would shut up sometimes.
00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:29.039
Um, I'm sure that they would make me very wise if I was curious about them.
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:31.039
No, no, no, I I completely understand that.
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:33.599
Yeah, it's it's a process, right?
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:42.319
Um, I think sometimes people approach this idea of mental health as like kind of in a way that you would with like a strep throat.
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:46.400
Give me an antibiotic, tell me a thing, and then it'll clear it up, and then we're good.
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:50.720
Um, but the idea really is what you're saying is work, right?
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:57.839
We can get curious about what's going on within us and start to to study ourselves and understand where things are coming from.
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:03.920
And then over time, we can the triggers lose the the hold that they have over us.
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:12.559
We're able to hold those those uncomfortable or difficult feelings um slightly better every day, hopefully, or over the years.
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:17.039
And so it's it's just a very different form of of healing.
00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:20.799
It's more like physical therapy than than pharmaceutical, right?
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:23.599
You can't just push a button or take a pill and it goes away.
00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:25.359
It's work over time.
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:36.319
And sometimes if you have physical therapy for an injury, sometimes that will completely go away and you're able to make use of the joint or whatever it is um fully again, and sometimes you can't.
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:37.839
Sometimes it's learning how to live with it.
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:40.559
Um so is that's really good.
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:46.720
Um, I don't know if the question makes sense, but is do you feel like triggers is even the right word, like the proper word?
00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:50.240
Like I know it is the word, but like is it the most helpful word?
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:52.960
Like is there should be something in its place?
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:53.920
Like I don't I don't know.
00:25:54.240 --> 00:26:09.039
Well, what we're really talking about is an emotional reaction, whether it's an under-reaction, and sometimes triggers cause us to go really like hypo aroused, and and sometimes they call cause us to become really hyper-aroused.
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:25.680
So I think that triggers is an okay word, but I think really what we're talking about is an emotional reaction to stimuli outside of ourselves that that kind of like presses a button triggers or or presses a button and then we feel the way we do.
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:29.119
Yeah, like okay, that's helpful.
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:38.720
You know, I think the danger in that is just saying that the person over there makes me feel that way because it it's kind of like a two-party deal.
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:45.920
You know, they're doing something that might cause a reaction within you, but that reaction in you has that predisposition.
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:49.119
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:54.079
Like Debbie and I as an example, you know, I get triggered a lot more than she does.
00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:57.359
And sometimes it's like I'll say to her, like, doesn't that bot?
00:26:57.519 --> 00:26:58.640
And she's like, No, not at all.
00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:06.480
And it it's kind of like, well, that's a good example of where something happened inside of me that it doesn't happen inside of her.
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:11.200
That's really yeah, that's good.
00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:14.160
Yeah, that's fascinating.
00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:15.119
I'm just writing thoughts.
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:15.759
Yeah.
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:17.440
Yeah, I was gonna ask you, what are you thinking?
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:18.960
You look I'm puzzled.
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:19.839
No, in a good way.
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:28.799
Um yeah, I I'm trying to sometimes you know, I've been in circumstances where, you know, you're triggering me, right?
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:38.720
And I, you know, I and I can see some moments where that people maybe intentionally do that, and that there's a there's a there's a a warning and over that, like please don't do that, right?
00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:41.839
But then is there like responsible are we responsible?
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:44.799
Like what are triggers trying to like they're subjective, right?
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:48.880
They're not to be applied are they to be applied elsewhere?
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:49.599
Does that make sense?
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:50.720
Well trying to form my question.
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:55.680
Okay, like I'll give you I'll give you an example of a trigger that recently happened in our in our home.
00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:09.359
Debbie and I were I think it was yeah, it was Sunday night, and Debbie said to me, it was like maybe eight o'clock at night, the kitchen sink is leaking.
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:12.559
Okay.
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:14.880
But it wasn't okay for me.
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:24.319
And so what happened with me is I went from zero to ten over just a statement that she made.
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:38.240
And it was interesting because I had a podcast with Tim Fletcher the next day, and so I asked him if we could talk about that and use that as an example, and he was like, Yeah, and he was like, Okay, well, does that bring you back to your dad at all?
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:49.759
And I was like, Yeah, because when my dad was fixing things, hammers would fly, things would like he'd be screaming and hollering, and then the you know, the kitchen would be flooded and he would be screaming at us, look at what you did.
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:51.519
That makes sense about that.
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:53.599
And he's like, Well, how does your mom fit into that?
00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:55.920
And and he's like, What was Debbie doing?
00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:00.960
And I was like, Well, my mom was really dependent and expected me to take care of it.
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:04.799
And so that kind of filtered in with Debbie.
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:08.559
And and Tim said to me, You know, did you feel helpless?
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:13.920
I was like, Oh yeah, because I don't know how to fix things.
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:20.880
Like, and and if I started working on it, it would be so much worse by by nine o'clock at night.
00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:25.359
And he was like, Okay, and so yeah, that triggered me.
00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:44.079
And Debbie's words triggered me, but it's a whole party, yeah, it's a whole carnival, you know, of rides that I was going on, you know, and and then there was like a wanting to pull away and be like, This isn't my house, this isn't my kitchen, this isn't, you know, yeah, and and and going to that extreme.
00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:45.279
Right, avoidance that's right.
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:49.759
So it's like, okay, well, it is my kitchen, it is my responsibility.
00:29:50.160 --> 00:30:01.839
But first of all, I had to get you know, rooted and grounded in myself to say to Debbie, like, you know what, we're gonna put a bowl under it right now and and we're gonna work on it, but not right now.
00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:02.720
That's good.
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:13.359
And so I think that things can trigger us, like sinks or wives, or husbands, or girlfriends, or boyfriend, whatever.
00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:22.480
But it's inside of us, and so we have the responsibility to gently take that apart and figure out what's going on.
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:23.039
Does that make sense?
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:23.519
Makes sense.
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:25.359
Yeah, 100%.
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:28.160
And I first I thank you for sharing your personal experience.
00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:40.240
I think that's really um I I yes, in in different forms, I I understand that type of triggering where, you know, especially when it comes to like doing things handy around the house and what that brings.
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:40.799
Yeah.
00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:45.200
And when, you know, if my wife just makes a statement like, hey, this is br we need to get this fixed, yeah.
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:47.839
What I what's that sends me into yeah, right?
00:30:47.920 --> 00:31:06.880
So you know, and the healthy thing and and the enriching thing, and the if we can use these things in different areas of our lives or be able to go back to our partners or to other individuals, yeah, and be able like Debbie knew as soon as I said we're not gonna deal with this right now, that I was triggered.
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:07.039
Right.
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:07.519
Yeah.
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:14.720
And she was like, Okay, well, we'll have to get a big one.
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:16.559
I'm like, get the biggest one you got.
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:19.359
Yeah, this is gonna take some time.
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:22.720
Yeah, you know, and so then the next morning she brought it up to me.
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:25.279
I was better, but still not all the way there.
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:40.960
You know, so it it just I I share that example because there's just so many layers that that come to play with helplessness, with family of origin, with maybe your marriage and how your how your relationship is now with your marriage.
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:44.559
And Debbie and I have been able to work through a lot of these things, but it still is hard.
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:45.039
Yeah.
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:50.000
Yeah, it's I mean, there's a lot of beauty in what you're describing too, right?
00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:57.519
The work that you've done to identify it, to understand where it's coming from, to realize, hey, this is throwing me off.
00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:01.680
Something just happened inside of me, and it's not really Debbie's fault.
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:06.400
It's not the Sync's fault, it's a bunch of things that are that are all converging.
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:15.279
Um, there's the beauty of the work that you've done with Debbie over time so that she's aware of what's going on and isn't angry at you for reacting.
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:17.200
It's not, you know, your fault.
00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:26.559
Um, and the communication, the fact that you guys are able to talk about it and and to have the maturity to put it away, right?
00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:30.720
Um, there are, I would say most problems don't have to be solved in the moment.
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:31.599
I think we want to.
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:35.920
I think we're kind of hardwired because of society to like just get things done, go, go, go.
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:44.559
But there are so many things that you can put a pin in and just, you know, let's come back to this tomorrow, let's look at this next week, um, to give yourself the time to work through it.
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:49.279
So as difficult as it sounds like that was for you, Mark, and thank you for sharing it.
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:55.839
Uh there's just so many really wise and wisdom nuggets of wisdom that we can pull from that.
00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:57.119
So that's yeah, it's wonderful.
00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:08.079
You know, and I say that for us, because when you go from zero to seven and or zero to eight, I just want you to know how complex the situation is.
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:12.319
It might not just be one thing, it could be a whole plethora of things, yeah.
00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:15.920
And just to be aware of the complexity with all of that.
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:18.240
Yeah, that is that's so good.
00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:27.920
That's because you are like you said, you're bringing so many other um characters alongside how did how did my father end up in the kitchen?
00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:30.000
How did my mom end up in the kitchen?
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:31.359
But that's real, yeah.
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:38.079
And that's like being able to just be honest about that is really important to be able to like and identify that, I think, is huge.
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:46.160
Like I think before doing any work in my own life, like I don't I felt those things, but I know how to like identify it so I couldn't communicate it.
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:46.400
Right.
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:53.039
Like I just didn't like couldn't give it words and like therapy, things like that has helped me like really identify and place things like that.
00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:58.400
But but it was hard because it's like, why am I feeling that like not everybody feels should should I be feeling this way?
00:33:58.480 --> 00:33:58.640
Right.
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:03.440
But like something like you know, fixing a say or whatever, you know, that's it's just it's just very interesting.
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:09.280
Yeah, it's I I think it's something the people that that try to shut those moments down and say like get over it.
00:34:09.519 --> 00:34:13.599
Um they don't understand how many ghosts we all carry.
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:27.519
There's there's families, like people that have passed away decades ago, there are people we're no longer friends with, there are teachers, there are there are all of these people that come along with us on our journey for the rest of our lives.
00:34:27.760 --> 00:35:01.519
That if we don't take the time to figure out, hey, that's this person's voice, that person was wrong about that, you know, and and if we don't take the time to kind of sort through all of those voices in our lives and and put them in their proper place and understand them and and um detach when we need to or or make our peace with things that have happened, we just drag that into everything and we're just plowing through our lives, our children's lives, our friends' lives, everyone we come into contact with, with this this huge house party of pain, and it it just leaves wreckage behind.
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:02.960
It's a very cool band name.
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:04.079
Oh, yes, party.
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:04.960
Okay, there we go.
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:06.400
I'm stealing it from the end.
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:11.440
Oh, that is awesome.
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:18.159
So we're gonna give you um all of the answers to every question you've ever had on this podcast.
00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:18.880
Absolutely.
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:20.559
Um, just not today.
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.360
Um, we're just glad to be back with you with our amazing audience.
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:27.920
Um, great to be back in the room with you guys doing this.
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:32.480
Um, and I'm looking forward to diving into the conversations on attachment theory that are gonna be coming up.
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:34.239
We're gonna tackle all of these.
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:36.400
Mark actually mentioned the four uh today.
00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:39.679
So we're gonna be uh tackling all of those over the next few weeks.
00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:41.360
But uh until next time.
00:35:41.679 --> 00:35:42.239
Can I plug some?
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:43.280
Yeah, please, please plug away.
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:43.679
Oh, yeah.
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:46.320
We're getting close to another season of commonality.
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:48.800
We forget about that yes, at Common Place Church.
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:52.480
And uh yeah, we kicked it off last year around this time.
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:57.519
And uh it I yeah, just so excited for what you know how how it turned out.
00:35:57.679 --> 00:35:57.840
Yeah.
00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:04.000
Just the people that we the stories we were able to uh work through and just people we were able to meet.
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:05.280
And um, yeah, I don't know.
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:08.239
So Kirk, let me let me ask you real quick while you're talking about it.
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:11.679
How how would you describe a little bit of what?
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:21.360
You know, because it's like we were talking about this the other day, how hard it is to describe, but like even a little bit like what and Walter, you were there, maybe you could share it also.
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:26.719
Yeah, I love the uh I was supposed to figure out this answer to this question after our meeting.
00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:27.599
I didn't do it.
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:29.760
So put me on the spot here now.
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:45.679
Um yeah, I think it's really like uh opening up our being, you know, being okay to just just share our journeys with people to to just you know process through our journeys, share our journeys really for the sake of discovery and understanding.
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:45.920
Yeah.
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:48.320
Um and I think that's what stories reveal to us.
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:56.880
They they they speak not only to what the situation was, but they also speak to what how we how we potentially handle situations now.
00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:01.760
Like it really comes even to the idea of triggering in some regards too, like just trying to understand and discover.
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:04.400
So that is not a short answer to what you asked me.
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:09.519
Um story work is uh healing work, I think, in some regards.
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:13.599
Um story work is informative work, uh discovery.
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:40.800
Um and story work is not your whole story, it is just like taking an incident in your life that caused harm and spending the time to kind of think about it and not run away from it, get closer to it and to write it down to kind of step into that five-year-old or that ten-year-old, uh, their position and what they were feeling at the time, and then to be able to have people bear witness to that.
00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:42.159
That's that's beautiful.
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:46.800
Because that's that's the other thing is like doing it, having a safe community to do that is huge.
00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:54.400
And and the amount of times people would just even share, like, I yeah, that like I understand a similar story, yeah.
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:57.119
You know, like I've been through something similar, not the exact same thing, right?
00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:03.119
But something similar and just the the beauty of of being able to walk alongside people in that is is is huge.
00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:10.320
So um I say, you know, we may not have like the greatest pitch for it, but just come check it out.
00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:10.559
Yeah.
00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:12.480
You know, I think I think it's worth exploring.
00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:22.719
It's gonna be Monday, uh next I'm sorry, Monday the 28th of September, and that's seven to nine at uh the church up here at 200 Flanders Dreakstown Road.
00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:23.519
Right.
00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:24.800
Oh, that's awesome.
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:27.039
Yeah, we're uh excited about that.
00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:28.880
So many things starting up again, right?
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:31.519
The cyclical nature of our lives.
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:39.280
Um, we want to just remind you that God cares about your full health, your mental, your physical, and emotional health, and he cares about you.
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:43.920
Uh until next time, all we love you, God loves you, and we'll see you soon.
00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:44.400
See ya.
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:45.280
Bye.
00:00:00.479 --> 00:00:02.959
Welcome to the With All Your Mind Podcast.
00:00:03.120 --> 00:00:09.839
This podcast exists as a resource and a part of the ministry at Commonplace Church or Mental Health Ministry.
00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:14.880
If you'd like to learn more about the church or about the ministry itself, visit up commonplacechurch.org.
00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:16.879
Hope you enjoyed this conversation.
00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:21.359
Hello, and welcome back to With All Your Mind.
00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:22.320
I'm Walter F.
00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:24.719
Rodriguez, and with me are my co-hosts, Dr.
00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:27.760
Mark McNear and Pastor Kirk Ruprecht.
00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:29.039
Welcome back.
00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:29.920
Hello.
00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:30.960
Welcome.
00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:32.240
Welcome back.
00:00:32.560 --> 00:00:33.200
That's crazy.
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I think that's probably the most appropriate statement to make because uh it's been a while.
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It's been a little bit.
00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:40.719
It's been some time.
00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:42.799
We don't ever define it, you just say some.
00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:45.840
It's been some time since we've had the opportunity to do that.
00:00:46.159 --> 00:00:48.079
Do you still say it's been a minute?
00:00:48.320 --> 00:00:48.880
I say it.
00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:49.039
Yeah.
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I say it.
00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:52.560
I often add the hot, the hot minute descriptor.
00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:54.799
I never really Is there a cold minute?
00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:59.359
Yeah, I don't know what it actually means when you add it on there, but I do it sometimes.
00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:00.640
It's for warmth.
00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:01.119
Yes.
00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:07.280
But yeah, it's been a while since we've gotten to get together to record and to spend this time together as friends.
00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:14.319
Um, as those who care deeply about the world of mental health and care deeply about the people who take their time out to listen to this podcast.
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So we're grateful for you that you're here.
00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:19.680
Um, and we hope that maybe you find it beneficial.
00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:26.079
Or maybe you're just you want to hear a train wreck and you're like, Man, let me tune into this week's train wreck.
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Um, but welcome all audiences.
00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:29.040
Exactly.
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Whatever the reason is that draws you to us, um, it's been too long.
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We've missed you guys.
00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:44.159
Um, so actually, before we jump into any of the topics for today, maybe it would be good to just catch up, catch up on where we are in life and catch up with all of you guys too.
00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:46.959
So, gents, uh, let's catch up.
00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:52.079
What has been happening since we last recorded an episode which was uh 1940?
00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:53.760
I was gonna say early 2000s.
00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:56.959
Well, we we took off for the summer.
00:01:57.040 --> 00:01:59.200
Yeah, and I can speak for myself.
00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:00.879
I was in Wyoming for a couple weeks.
00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:07.439
I have been continuing to work on the other podcast, and so that's been going well.
00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:09.120
And can we plug it?
00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:09.520
Sure.
00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:10.080
Okay, yeah.
00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:11.439
I was like, I think you're allowed to say the name.
00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:14.240
Yeah, we're not it's not like NDA or anything like that.
00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:17.599
The the podcast that will not be named, right?
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What's your what's your other podcast, Mark?
00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:23.759
So my other podcast is Trauma Meets Recovery Podcast.
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Check it out.
00:02:24.719 --> 00:02:29.759
And so that's been exciting, and Debbie and I had a wonderful summer together.
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That's awesome.
00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:34.960
So it was nice and it seemed like it went fast, didn't it?
00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:35.520
Yeah.
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Too fast.
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Really fast.
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Ugh.
00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:42.080
Yeah, I didn't feel like it went fast.
00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:44.560
I was glad.
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You know, I was looking at Kirk's face and he and he's like, I wanted to agree.
00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:52.879
Yeah, it was almost like his face was telling me, like, no, you're wrong.
00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:57.199
No, it was uh it felt uh extra extra this year.
00:02:57.360 --> 00:02:58.080
Felt a little extra.
00:02:58.479 --> 00:02:58.800
Yeah.
00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:00.159
Um, let's see.
00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:03.919
For me, I did end up getting into the World Cup, which was strange.
00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:06.879
I didn't expect that to be my uh Did you fit inside the World Cup?
00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:10.560
You were attempted to or you were part of it or you were watching it?
00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:12.800
No, well, I think I don't know.
00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:15.120
I mean, if you're are you part of it by watching it, I'm not sure.
00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:16.719
Like you could put it in, yeah.
00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:17.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:18.800
I was involved somehow.
00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:20.080
Yeah, by tuning in.
00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:29.280
I know several people that are coaches of the New Jersey Jets, uh the New York Jets, um, just because they stand up and they they call plays and they yell at the players.
00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:30.800
Yeah, that's so that probably fit into that.
00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:33.439
I was like the Ted Lasso.
00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:34.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:39.039
It was it was an exciting World Cup.
00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:40.719
Very uh unpredictable.
00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:41.039
Yeah.
00:03:41.199 --> 00:03:41.680
Yeah, yeah.
00:03:41.919 --> 00:03:44.719
I was not expecting to get in like to like it, and I did.
00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:45.439
Yeah, good.
00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:45.840
Wow.
00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:48.800
So another four years I'll I'll watch it again, I guess.
00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:50.879
Um, but yeah, what else?
00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:58.000
Uh it was a it was a summer for me of like recovery, like like just really I felt a little burned out going into the summer.
00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:15.520
So spent some time uh just trying to rest and uh prepare for uh a change in our um in our home as my my son has uh just recently gone to college and that was a big uh shift and a very different uh we we look very different.
00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:16.079
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:19.680
Um there's there's a lot of females currently in the house, even even the dog.
00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:24.160
Um so but it's good, you know, it's just uh we miss him, but he's doing the right thing.
00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:27.839
So what would be three words you would use to describe it?
00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:29.839
The summer or or him leaving?
00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:30.879
Him leaving.
00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:32.560
Oh, three words is all I get.
00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:34.399
I'll give you four.
00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:35.680
Uh I'll give you four.
00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:38.079
Uh exciting.
00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:42.240
Um let's see.
00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:47.759
Exciting as well, but uh hard uh yeah, uh challenging.
00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:52.000
Um and it's it's sad, I'm not gonna lie.
00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:52.399
Yeah.
00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:56.639
So I guess all those bittersweet probably would have been just two words that would have worked well.
00:04:56.879 --> 00:04:58.560
No, he gave you four, so I think you're still within.
00:04:58.800 --> 00:04:59.519
I think he threw me off with three.
00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:01.040
I was like three.
00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:12.560
Um yeah, it's uh it's just a chapter, you know, we've talked about this even in the podcast, like just different chapters and seasons, and um yeah, so it's been a a different one for for us.
00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:14.079
Yeah, it's it's a good one, right?
00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:18.720
But it's also, you know, it's we are we hold a lot of those things intention.
00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:19.120
Yeah.
00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:20.800
That's kind of how we exist.
00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:22.639
We try to exist as humans.
00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:26.800
It's wise that you are acknowledging that you're holding things in tension.
00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:28.240
I think we often do.
00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:28.879
Yeah.
00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:30.000
How about you?
00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:35.199
I I'm still in the season of burnout.
00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:40.639
I feel like uh the summer was just kind of careening downhill.
00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:44.800
Um, not in the in the actual downhill sense, but in the the speed of everything.
00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:46.639
It was a lot to do.
00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:51.600
Uh everything has been just tight deadlines, crazy, crazy hours of work.
00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:58.160
So um, for a big chunk of the summer, I was like pulling 70, 80 hours a week and it was draining.
00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:03.839
So I did feel like it went really quickly, but I felt every minute of that, at least my body did.
00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:14.160
So um trying to move now into a season of recovery a little bit and uh just trying to be wiser in allocating my time.
00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:17.680
I think I've always taken on a lot.
00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:28.000
And now recently with uh Ashley and with Maddie and those responsibilities that come with that, I want to have the time to really be present there.
00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:40.480
Um, and that comes with cutting back on other things, and it's hard for me because I am very much a people pleaser and I want to try to do all of the things that people expect me to do, but yeah, it's it's just unsustainable.
00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:50.160
So I'm just trying to take a look at things and figure out where I can cut back and just kind of reinvest things in in other ways, some of that energy.
00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:57.519
So learning, um yeah, and uh also scared at the cost of college.
00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:00.160
$75,000 a year.
00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:03.839
We're looking at one of the schools, it's that's crazy.
00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:04.480
It's insane.
00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:05.040
That's insane.
00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:06.240
Yep.
00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:07.040
I don't know.
00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:10.319
It's a whole I don't know how to podcast we can unpack.
00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:15.600
Yeah, well, if you guys listening have any tips on how to pay for college, please let us know.
00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:20.000
I've looked into selling body parts and things like that, you know, whatever I can.
00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:20.879
Yeah.
00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:21.839
Yeah.
00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:32.079
When I start mowing a lot of lawns, I don't even so yeah, but it's uh it's good to be back with everybody, good to catch up a little bit.
00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:35.120
Oh man, my voice is going away.
00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:36.079
I think I'm getting too emotional.
00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:39.759
You guys reunited.
00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:42.720
No, it's a 75,000.
00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:43.600
Oh, yeah.
00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:44.560
That'll do it.
00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:45.199
I gotcha.
00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:46.959
That'll choke me up.
00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:48.560
For sure.
00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:52.800
Oh man, is dining and dashing a thing for study and run?
00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:53.759
I don't know.
00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:55.360
Just show up for classes.
00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:56.480
You belong here?
00:07:56.720 --> 00:07:57.439
I don't know.
00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:04.160
But um, yeah, so we're gonna talk about a topic that's we're gonna be exploring it over the next few weeks.
00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:15.360
And um, we've touched on this in other um in other episodes that we've done before, but uh the idea is we're gonna talk about attachment of being attached, of clinging.
00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:21.519
So you might be wondering, how does being attached clinging, how does that connect to our mental health journeys?
00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:23.680
And well, it's a good question.
00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:26.399
Um, we're gonna start with this idea of attachment.
00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:35.039
Like I mentioned, we've spoken about it throughout the uh podcast, but we want to take the time to really unpack uh what it is, and it's this thing called attachment theory.
00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:43.519
Um, so we'll spend a few weeks looking at it and um the different individual styles that are attached to uh to this theory.
00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:45.360
Attachment, yeah, attachment theory.
00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:46.559
The attachments are attached.
00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:47.200
That's good.
00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:57.279
Uh but at the the base level, it's a theory in psychology and developmental informative processes as the way that we attach to our caregivers, to our parents, or guardians as an infant, right?
00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:07.360
Um, so as you're growing up, as you're developing as a human being, what do those relationships to your guardians, your parents, your caregivers, what do those look like?
00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:10.000
And then how does that manifest later in life?
00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:24.240
So a more formal definition is attachment theory is a psychological framework stating that early emotional bonds between infants and primary caregivers shape lifelong patterns of trust, intimacy, and emotional regulation.
00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:27.200
So, you know, no huge impacts from our infancy.
00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:29.200
That's don't need that at all.
00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:30.480
Doesn't matter whatsoever.
00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:30.639
Yeah.
00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:31.840
You can shake the baby.
00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:32.399
That's right.
00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:37.840
So patterns of trust, emotional regulation, all of that is really, really vital.
00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:47.120
Um, and over the next few weeks, we're gonna dive into this theory and how it may be impacting or how it is impacting us um in our lives today.
00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:51.279
So we're gonna start by looking at the things that we cling to.
00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:59.440
Maybe it's our job, maybe it's another person, um, maybe it is a hobby, something that we feel defines us.
00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:05.440
Um, maybe we attach ourselves to a certain talent or ability that we believe helps us to stand out or gives us an identity.
00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:12.320
Um, so from that first conversation point, guys, are there things in your life that you might consider that you are attached to?
00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:15.519
Maybe healthy, possibly unhealthy relationship.
00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:17.679
Hmm.
00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:19.279
Who wants to kick this one off?
00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:20.000
Let's see.
00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:25.840
Uh I'm gonna say eating, I eat at least once a day.
00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:28.639
I'm pretty attached to that hobby of mine.
00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:32.240
Um about uh I got a hot one.
00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:32.960
How about our phones?
00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:35.519
That was just that's what popped in my head immediately.
00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:37.919
It's like I'm too attached to my phone.
00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:41.279
Yeah, yeah, there's an unhealthy relationship there.
00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:41.840
I agree.
00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:42.639
Yeah, absolutely.
00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:42.960
Right.
00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:49.919
I mean, you know you're attached to it too when you like misplace it or when you or recently my phone has decided to like stop charging.
00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:50.480
Like I don't know.
00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:51.440
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:52.399
And I'm like panicking.
00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:55.759
I'm like, what if the battery, what if it's unable to charge again?
00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:58.559
Yeah, and I'm like, like, I don't know, can I go on?
00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:00.480
Can I can I keep existing?
00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:03.759
It's like it's okay, this might be an issue, right?
00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:05.360
The phone dies and I die.
00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:07.440
Yes, that's it, that's the end of me, you know.
00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:11.279
Um but I think yeah, I think like phone probably is an unhealthy one.
00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:22.879
Um I think relationally at times I can fall into like uh you know, potentially like codependency stuff, which is probably the unhealthy form of you know connection.
00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:24.000
Yeah, absolutely.
00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:27.919
So that's something that I think I I've been made aware of.
00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:30.480
I didn't it's something you don't recognize at first.
00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:33.200
Like, oh this is a codependent relationship typically.
00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:33.360
Yeah.
00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:35.440
At least in my you know, my uh journey.
00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:38.639
So I think that's been something that's been recognizing.
00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:38.960
Yeah.
00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:41.039
Like and that goes back to even like people pleasing, right?
00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:49.440
A lot of that is like trying to, you know, make sure that there's a an attachment that people are still wanting to be present with you, right?
00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:49.600
Yeah.
00:11:49.759 --> 00:11:53.519
Because you're you're you're doing the right thing or you're you're you know, uh what's the word?
00:11:53.759 --> 00:11:56.320
You're available or you're um you know, uh capable.
00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:57.919
What is a better word I can't think of?
00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:01.200
But uh you are reliable, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:03.600
Um so I think those are things.
00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:15.279
I think as far as like even um things like uh gifts or talents and things like that too, I'm sure there's there's moments of like that's who you know, I'll use that so I can be noticed about who I am, right?
00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:16.720
And so I'm kind of like attached to that.
00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:17.200
Yeah.
00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:23.600
Yeah, and I think the danger with this uh topic is to look at it and to pathologize.
00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:48.159
You know, uh I agree with you with codependency and I tend to struggle with it a lot, but uh, you know, that idea that relationships are good, and so we don't want to get like go to the other extreme where we're like, okay, I just need to not have any relationships because I think that we tend to look at it and then kind of like demonize it and be like, no, no, no, we got we got I we gotta get rid of every relationship.
00:12:48.320 --> 00:13:13.919
And it's like no, there is a middle road, yeah, and and as we talk about attachment, even in looking at that, you know, there's extremes at times, but those extremes probably protected us tremendously at an earlier age, and so it's a matter of just adjusting and becoming aware of that's great, but yeah, yeah, dialing it in and that's yeah, figuring out the right the right amount, the healthy amount.
00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:14.639
Yeah, right.
00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:19.039
We're going back to like what you said I did okay as holding with holding tensions, right?
00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:20.399
I think that's what we're talking about here too.
00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:24.799
We tend to culturally we tend to polarize and we tend to go extremes.
00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:26.799
Like that just feels like the right thing to do.
00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:27.600
Right, right.
00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:31.600
That's not necessarily how our complex human existence works.
00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:32.080
Yeah.
00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:40.720
You know, and the other thing is that when we look at these, we don't need to label ourselves and take that on as our identity because that's not our identity.
00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:43.919
It's part of us, but it's not the totality of who we are.
00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:45.120
That's good.
00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:47.679
Yeah, and you should be a doctor, Mark.
00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:48.320
That's great.
00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:49.919
One day.
00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:52.399
I'll be a real boy.
00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:55.120
So, okay, doctor.
00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:58.159
Is there a difference between an addiction and an attachment?
00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:02.399
Is it just semantic or is there like a shadow version versus a healthy sign?
00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:10.559
Well, I think that that attachment can lead to addiction, but not all attachment is addiction.
00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:26.399
You know, when you go to extremes, whether you whether you talk about attachment to things or to people, you know, I think that when we talk about in psychology attachment theory, we're talking about our relationship with other individuals.
00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:32.799
We're not really talking about things like drugs or alcohol or gambling or shopping or things like that.
00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:33.200
Right.
00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:33.679
Right.
00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:34.480
That's good.
00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:41.200
And so if you're talking about it and it's only towards people, is there such a thing as being addicted to a person?
00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:42.879
Like clinically, is that a thing?
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.799
Well, there wouldn't be like a clinical, you know, definition.
00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:48.639
We talk about codependency, right?
00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:58.000
You know, the the extreme of feeling like you need a person and becoming very possessive of them or them becoming possessive of you.
00:14:58.559 --> 00:14:59.919
You know, that that's part of it.
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:01.279
It's on a spectrum though.
00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:19.679
And I I think that all of us have had that experience when we've been in junior high or high school, where we've wanted, you know, whether whether it be same same sex, you know, relationships or or whether it be opposite sex that, you know, we we don't we feel insecure, and so we want those people to be ours.
00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:20.559
Right, right.
00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:22.480
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:24.720
See, I told you he makes sense, Kurt.
00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:27.440
I feel like we're uh attached to Mark in this.
00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:28.159
Yeah, we are.
00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:29.679
We're very attached to you, sir.
00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:32.080
So here's another question.
00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:34.159
Doxins, you're uh one for one.
00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:41.440
Can we still find comfort in an attachment even if the person that we're attached to is bringing about dysfunction or the potential for harm?
00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:49.120
So can you still find comfort in someone who is toxic or or not healthy for you?
00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:57.200
Yeah, I think that we've all had those experiences with individuals where we didn't realize how unhealthy the relationship was.
00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:03.200
And then as we've moved away from it, we kind of ask ourselves, like, what was that all about?
00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:13.840
But I think that sometimes we get addicted to chaos, and sometimes either we we provide the chaos or somebody else provides the chaos, and we don't even know about it.
00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:22.240
And they talk about when you've come from a chaotic home, peace feels very, very uncomfortable, security feels very, very uncomfortable.
00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:28.960
So we tend to gravitate toward individuals that will be representative of our family of origin.
00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:31.440
That's really good.
00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:32.320
Yeah.
00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:40.960
Yeah, because comfort then becomes almost synonymous with um prior experience with um yeah.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:47.919
How often does like family of origin play a role in developing attachment theory style like styles?
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:50.320
Yeah, I I would say 100% of the time.
00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:55.440
Unless unless you change the the legacy, the behavior.
00:16:55.759 --> 00:17:06.160
The other thing is like, you know, I would say that maybe change it from family of origin, which which is synonymous in some ways with your primary caretakers.
00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:14.480
You know, so if it's your mom and dad, they're definitely gonna dictate your attachment styles and influence them greatly.
00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:23.440
But if for some reason your parents are not there and it's an aunt or uncle or s or somebody else, then they're going to influence it.
00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:25.680
So it's it's your primary caregivers.
00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.920
But I was thinking like does it continue up generationally generationally?
00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:33.039
You know, like is like is it just is it pattern, typically pattern?
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:38.319
Is that like uh or does that change with like environments versus nature versus nurturers that you're asking with that?
00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:42.960
Um well I'm thinking like yes, your parents have created that, but then what about their parents?
00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:44.240
Oh, I I think my same.
00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.079
Yeah, I I think unless work has that's such a good question.
00:17:48.319 --> 00:18:03.119
I think unless work has been done, it tends to be generation after generation, and so your mom and dad learned it from their moms and dads, and so it gets diluted a little bit because it's a a cast of characters that's a little bit different.
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:10.480
Sure, because you have like four grandparents, and so you know, that idea it definitely influences it.
00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:12.559
Temperament seems to influence it too.
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:19.759
But the good news, and that's like what we want to kind of talk about after we talk about the types, is that it can change.
00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:21.039
Yeah, it definitely can.
00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:27.680
And uh, you know, uh attachment styles, it's not like you have one attachment style period.
00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:33.119
It's not like you carry around this this for the rest of your life, and this is you know, this attach or whatever.
00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:33.759
Yeah, right.
00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:36.079
It it it can be different with different people.
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:43.519
And so just for people to think about, there's there is a um an individual and we'll give her name.
00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:45.359
I can't think of it now, I gotta look at it.
00:18:45.599 --> 00:19:02.400
But uh Diane Pooler Heller uh Diane Heller Pool, I think it is, and she's an expert, and there's some test that she has on the internet, and she makes the point that when you take it, you have to take it for each person in your life.
00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:11.039
You can't just take one, you know, person, like, okay, I'll take it for Kirk, and then that'll apply to Debbie, it'll apply to Emily, you know, it'll apply to everyone in my life.
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:11.920
No, no, no.
00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:14.000
It it is different for every person.
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:15.440
You have different really, yeah.
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:16.319
Interesting.
00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:16.880
Okay.
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:27.599
I don't think, and I mean, this is kind of happens all the time, but I I don't think that's the way that it's really talked about in kind of pop culture when you're talking about attachment styles.
00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:33.359
I think um the way that I've heard it talked about in the past is what is your attachment style?
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:34.400
And that's that's it.
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:38.319
Like whatever that one is, that's what they kind of expect you to.
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:40.720
Yeah, that's I I agree with that.
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:49.599
Like, because I was is there a prime like are there like primary attachment styles versus like like I don't this is all inquiry of putting Mark at the bus or something?
00:19:50.000 --> 00:20:08.559
There's a lot of gray areas, but we talk about the four primary, which we can cover in a few minutes, you know, and and people are familiar with them maybe with different names, but but that idea that you know you're securely attached and that's on a continuum, it doesn't mean you are just securely attached because everybody has insecurities.
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:12.559
And then you have like avoidant attachment, and we'll talk about that.
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:20.480
You talk about anxious, uh ambivalent attachment, and then you talk about disorganized attachment.
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:27.839
And and again, I just want people to hear you might be avoidant with one person and be disorganized with another.
00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:31.519
So it just doesn't follow suit that you're that way with everyone.
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:34.799
That is important to know, yeah.
00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:36.240
Yeah, that is really good.
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:39.680
So I'm gonna I'm gonna do my best mark impression here.
00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:45.599
What feelings or emotions come up in your body and mind when it comes to the thought of severing from something?
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:46.480
How did I do?
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:46.880
I don't know.
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:48.960
Two marks here.
00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:49.519
This wild.
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:51.119
Hey, you you're doing good.
00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:53.519
So so I just want to go back for a minute.
00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:55.039
Yeah, Diane Poole Heller.
00:20:55.359 --> 00:21:02.799
Pool Heller O O L E Heller, and uh she's on the internet and there's an attachment quiz, and we can put that, I guess, in the show notes.
00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:04.160
And you can't fail the quiz, right?
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:05.039
No, no, no.
00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:06.960
I don't like I don't think so.
00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:09.680
No, you can't open book quiz.
00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:20.000
You know, but it but it but it's the idea that with all of these things, we don't want to like pigeonhole and we don't want to be like, okay, this is how you are, and you're gonna be like that the rest of your life.
00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:26.880
We want it to be something where you can become curious about why you feel different, and that's a good point, Walter.
00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:32.480
How do you feel in your body when you are around one person and then somebody else?
00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:33.440
How do you feel?
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:36.559
And and just monitoring that because you will feel different.
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:37.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:39.200
That is so true.
00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:43.839
There's there are people that make me feel safer, and then I feel probably closer.
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:52.000
I did definitely think my primary attachment style is secure, but I feel closer to that um with certain people, and then you know, different ones with others.
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:52.960
So that makes sense.
00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:55.599
All right.
00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:59.759
So when it comes to things like the trauma we've experienced.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:09.359
Experience, the losses we've encountered, maybe we'd find peace or joy if we were able to detach from difficult moments to sever ourselves from them.
00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:16.559
And that that word severing has gained popularity with the Apple TV show of that title, Severance, starring Adam Scott from Parks and Wreck.
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:20.720
But the concept is that these employees work for a company called Lumen.
00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:27.359
And what happens is each employee is given this microchip thing, and uh there they're detached from the person they are at work.
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:31.279
Um, that person is detached or severed from the life they live outside of their job.
00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:35.279
So the innie exists within the office and has a life inside there.
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:41.039
And when they leave the office, there comes the outie, the version of themselves that they are in the the rest of the world, right?
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:48.400
Um and these two versions are unable to connect to one another given this operation that has taken place, this severance of the person as a whole.
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:52.160
I don't want to give away the whole plot and the storyline, totally worth a watch.
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:55.680
And the show is fascinating because it addresses a lot of different themes.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:58.400
One, of course, is that work-life balance thing, right?
00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:11.519
But the other is this idea of attachment, being attached to the moments in our lives that we just don't want to have to think about, the tragedies, the wounds, the losses, and how much we long to not have to cling to or to be triggered back towards those moments.
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:13.279
So let's explore here.
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:18.720
Should we be in favor of something like severing the attachments of trauma and harm, like the show is attempting to do?
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:21.839
Um, so is that something that we should long for?
00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:24.559
Like, man, I remember a horrible memory in fourth grade.
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.759
If I could just lob that off, would that be healthy for us, Mark?
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:29.440
Is that I don't know.
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:31.200
Well, that would be awesome to do.
00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:36.559
It's just it's just impossible to do because it is lodged in your nervous system.
00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:37.599
That's good enough.
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:41.519
And so, you know, it's it's not even a choice, really.
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:42.319
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:46.000
So it's like just all fantasies you're saying.
00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:46.640
This is a good idea.
00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:48.559
Wait, who are you saying television is fake?
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:49.839
It might be it might be.
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:51.359
I thought this was reality TV show.
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:58.880
Yeah, so I remember our first episode we talked about good mental health is reality at any cost.
00:23:59.039 --> 00:23:59.119
M.
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:00.400
Scott Peck said that.
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:08.799
And I think that you know, so many people come into sessions and go, you know what, if I could just get rid of triggers, my life would be wonderful.
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:13.599
And it's like, yeah, but that's part of your nervous system.
00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:18.319
And and so your triggers have a lot to teach you if you can become curious.
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:18.880
Yeah.
00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:19.680
Yeah.
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:21.599
You don't you don't look sold on that, Walter.
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:23.599
I wish they would shut up sometimes.
00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:29.039
Um, I'm sure that they would make me very wise if I was curious about them.
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:31.039
No, no, no, I I completely understand that.
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:33.599
Yeah, it's it's a process, right?
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:42.319
Um, I think sometimes people approach this idea of mental health as like kind of in a way that you would with like a strep throat.
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:46.400
Give me an antibiotic, tell me a thing, and then it'll clear it up, and then we're good.
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:50.720
Um, but the idea really is what you're saying is work, right?
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:57.839
We can get curious about what's going on within us and start to to study ourselves and understand where things are coming from.
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:03.920
And then over time, we can the triggers lose the the hold that they have over us.
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:12.559
We're able to hold those those uncomfortable or difficult feelings um slightly better every day, hopefully, or over the years.
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:17.039
And so it's it's just a very different form of of healing.
00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:20.799
It's more like physical therapy than than pharmaceutical, right?
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:23.599
You can't just push a button or take a pill and it goes away.
00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:25.359
It's work over time.
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:36.319
And sometimes if you have physical therapy for an injury, sometimes that will completely go away and you're able to make use of the joint or whatever it is um fully again, and sometimes you can't.
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:37.839
Sometimes it's learning how to live with it.
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:40.559
Um so is that's really good.
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:46.720
Um, I don't know if the question makes sense, but is do you feel like triggers is even the right word, like the proper word?
00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:50.240
Like I know it is the word, but like is it the most helpful word?
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:52.960
Like is there should be something in its place?
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:53.920
Like I don't I don't know.
00:25:54.240 --> 00:26:09.039
Well, what we're really talking about is an emotional reaction, whether it's an under-reaction, and sometimes triggers cause us to go really like hypo aroused, and and sometimes they call cause us to become really hyper-aroused.
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:25.680
So I think that triggers is an okay word, but I think really what we're talking about is an emotional reaction to stimuli outside of ourselves that that kind of like presses a button triggers or or presses a button and then we feel the way we do.
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:29.119
Yeah, like okay, that's helpful.
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:38.720
You know, I think the danger in that is just saying that the person over there makes me feel that way because it it's kind of like a two-party deal.
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:45.920
You know, they're doing something that might cause a reaction within you, but that reaction in you has that predisposition.
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:49.119
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:54.079
Like Debbie and I as an example, you know, I get triggered a lot more than she does.
00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:57.359
And sometimes it's like I'll say to her, like, doesn't that bot?
00:26:57.519 --> 00:26:58.640
And she's like, No, not at all.
00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:06.480
And it it's kind of like, well, that's a good example of where something happened inside of me that it doesn't happen inside of her.
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:11.200
That's really yeah, that's good.
00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:14.160
Yeah, that's fascinating.
00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:15.119
I'm just writing thoughts.
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:15.759
Yeah.
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:17.440
Yeah, I was gonna ask you, what are you thinking?
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:18.960
You look I'm puzzled.
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:19.839
No, in a good way.
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:28.799
Um yeah, I I'm trying to sometimes you know, I've been in circumstances where, you know, you're triggering me, right?
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:38.720
And I, you know, I and I can see some moments where that people maybe intentionally do that, and that there's a there's a there's a a warning and over that, like please don't do that, right?
00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:41.839
But then is there like responsible are we responsible?
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:44.799
Like what are triggers trying to like they're subjective, right?
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:48.880
They're not to be applied are they to be applied elsewhere?
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:49.599
Does that make sense?
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:50.720
Well trying to form my question.
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:55.680
Okay, like I'll give you I'll give you an example of a trigger that recently happened in our in our home.
00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:09.359
Debbie and I were I think it was yeah, it was Sunday night, and Debbie said to me, it was like maybe eight o'clock at night, the kitchen sink is leaking.
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:12.559
Okay.
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:14.880
But it wasn't okay for me.
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:24.319
And so what happened with me is I went from zero to ten over just a statement that she made.
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:38.240
And it was interesting because I had a podcast with Tim Fletcher the next day, and so I asked him if we could talk about that and use that as an example, and he was like, Yeah, and he was like, Okay, well, does that bring you back to your dad at all?
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:49.759
And I was like, Yeah, because when my dad was fixing things, hammers would fly, things would like he'd be screaming and hollering, and then the you know, the kitchen would be flooded and he would be screaming at us, look at what you did.
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:51.519
That makes sense about that.
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:53.599
And he's like, Well, how does your mom fit into that?
00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:55.920
And and he's like, What was Debbie doing?
00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:00.960
And I was like, Well, my mom was really dependent and expected me to take care of it.
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:04.799
And so that kind of filtered in with Debbie.
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:08.559
And and Tim said to me, You know, did you feel helpless?
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:13.920
I was like, Oh yeah, because I don't know how to fix things.
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:20.880
Like, and and if I started working on it, it would be so much worse by by nine o'clock at night.
00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:25.359
And he was like, Okay, and so yeah, that triggered me.
00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:44.079
And Debbie's words triggered me, but it's a whole party, yeah, it's a whole carnival, you know, of rides that I was going on, you know, and and then there was like a wanting to pull away and be like, This isn't my house, this isn't my kitchen, this isn't, you know, yeah, and and and going to that extreme.
00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:45.279
Right, avoidance that's right.
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:49.759
So it's like, okay, well, it is my kitchen, it is my responsibility.
00:29:50.160 --> 00:30:01.839
But first of all, I had to get you know, rooted and grounded in myself to say to Debbie, like, you know what, we're gonna put a bowl under it right now and and we're gonna work on it, but not right now.
00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:02.720
That's good.
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:13.359
And so I think that things can trigger us, like sinks or wives, or husbands, or girlfriends, or boyfriend, whatever.
00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:22.480
But it's inside of us, and so we have the responsibility to gently take that apart and figure out what's going on.
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:23.039
Does that make sense?
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:23.519
Makes sense.
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:25.359
Yeah, 100%.
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:28.160
And I first I thank you for sharing your personal experience.
00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:40.240
I think that's really um I I yes, in in different forms, I I understand that type of triggering where, you know, especially when it comes to like doing things handy around the house and what that brings.
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:40.799
Yeah.
00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:45.200
And when, you know, if my wife just makes a statement like, hey, this is br we need to get this fixed, yeah.
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:47.839
What I what's that sends me into yeah, right?
00:30:47.920 --> 00:31:06.880
So you know, and the healthy thing and and the enriching thing, and the if we can use these things in different areas of our lives or be able to go back to our partners or to other individuals, yeah, and be able like Debbie knew as soon as I said we're not gonna deal with this right now, that I was triggered.
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:07.039
Right.
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:07.519
Yeah.
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:14.720
And she was like, Okay, well, we'll have to get a big one.
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:16.559
I'm like, get the biggest one you got.
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:19.359
Yeah, this is gonna take some time.
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:22.720
Yeah, you know, and so then the next morning she brought it up to me.
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:25.279
I was better, but still not all the way there.
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:40.960
You know, so it it just I I share that example because there's just so many layers that that come to play with helplessness, with family of origin, with maybe your marriage and how your how your relationship is now with your marriage.
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:44.559
And Debbie and I have been able to work through a lot of these things, but it still is hard.
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:45.039
Yeah.
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:50.000
Yeah, it's I mean, there's a lot of beauty in what you're describing too, right?
00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:57.519
The work that you've done to identify it, to understand where it's coming from, to realize, hey, this is throwing me off.
00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:01.680
Something just happened inside of me, and it's not really Debbie's fault.
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:06.400
It's not the Sync's fault, it's a bunch of things that are that are all converging.
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:15.279
Um, there's the beauty of the work that you've done with Debbie over time so that she's aware of what's going on and isn't angry at you for reacting.
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:17.200
It's not, you know, your fault.
00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:26.559
Um, and the communication, the fact that you guys are able to talk about it and and to have the maturity to put it away, right?
00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:30.720
Um, there are, I would say most problems don't have to be solved in the moment.
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:31.599
I think we want to.
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:35.920
I think we're kind of hardwired because of society to like just get things done, go, go, go.
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:44.559
But there are so many things that you can put a pin in and just, you know, let's come back to this tomorrow, let's look at this next week, um, to give yourself the time to work through it.
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:49.279
So as difficult as it sounds like that was for you, Mark, and thank you for sharing it.
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:55.839
Uh there's just so many really wise and wisdom nuggets of wisdom that we can pull from that.
00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:57.119
So that's yeah, it's wonderful.
00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:08.079
You know, and I say that for us, because when you go from zero to seven and or zero to eight, I just want you to know how complex the situation is.
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:12.319
It might not just be one thing, it could be a whole plethora of things, yeah.
00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:15.920
And just to be aware of the complexity with all of that.
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:18.240
Yeah, that is that's so good.
00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:27.920
That's because you are like you said, you're bringing so many other um characters alongside how did how did my father end up in the kitchen?
00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:30.000
How did my mom end up in the kitchen?
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:31.359
But that's real, yeah.
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:38.079
And that's like being able to just be honest about that is really important to be able to like and identify that, I think, is huge.
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:46.160
Like I think before doing any work in my own life, like I don't I felt those things, but I know how to like identify it so I couldn't communicate it.
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:46.400
Right.
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:53.039
Like I just didn't like couldn't give it words and like therapy, things like that has helped me like really identify and place things like that.
00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:58.400
But but it was hard because it's like, why am I feeling that like not everybody feels should should I be feeling this way?
00:33:58.480 --> 00:33:58.640
Right.
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:03.440
But like something like you know, fixing a say or whatever, you know, that's it's just it's just very interesting.
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:09.280
Yeah, it's I I think it's something the people that that try to shut those moments down and say like get over it.
00:34:09.519 --> 00:34:13.599
Um they don't understand how many ghosts we all carry.
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:27.519
There's there's families, like people that have passed away decades ago, there are people we're no longer friends with, there are teachers, there are there are all of these people that come along with us on our journey for the rest of our lives.
00:34:27.760 --> 00:35:01.519
That if we don't take the time to figure out, hey, that's this person's voice, that person was wrong about that, you know, and and if we don't take the time to kind of sort through all of those voices in our lives and and put them in their proper place and understand them and and um detach when we need to or or make our peace with things that have happened, we just drag that into everything and we're just plowing through our lives, our children's lives, our friends' lives, everyone we come into contact with, with this this huge house party of pain, and it it just leaves wreckage behind.
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:02.960
It's a very cool band name.
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:04.079
Oh, yes, party.
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:04.960
Okay, there we go.
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:06.400
I'm stealing it from the end.
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:11.440
Oh, that is awesome.
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:18.159
So we're gonna give you um all of the answers to every question you've ever had on this podcast.
00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:18.880
Absolutely.
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:20.559
Um, just not today.
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.360
Um, we're just glad to be back with you with our amazing audience.
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:27.920
Um, great to be back in the room with you guys doing this.
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:32.480
Um, and I'm looking forward to diving into the conversations on attachment theory that are gonna be coming up.
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:34.239
We're gonna tackle all of these.
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:36.400
Mark actually mentioned the four uh today.
00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:39.679
So we're gonna be uh tackling all of those over the next few weeks.
00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:41.360
But uh until next time.
00:35:41.679 --> 00:35:42.239
Can I plug some?
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:43.280
Yeah, please, please plug away.
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:43.679
Oh, yeah.
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:46.320
We're getting close to another season of commonality.
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:48.800
We forget about that yes, at Common Place Church.
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:52.480
And uh yeah, we kicked it off last year around this time.
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:57.519
And uh it I yeah, just so excited for what you know how how it turned out.
00:35:57.679 --> 00:35:57.840
Yeah.
00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:04.000
Just the people that we the stories we were able to uh work through and just people we were able to meet.
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:05.280
And um, yeah, I don't know.
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:08.239
So Kirk, let me let me ask you real quick while you're talking about it.
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:11.679
How how would you describe a little bit of what?
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:21.360
You know, because it's like we were talking about this the other day, how hard it is to describe, but like even a little bit like what and Walter, you were there, maybe you could share it also.
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:26.719
Yeah, I love the uh I was supposed to figure out this answer to this question after our meeting.
00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:27.599
I didn't do it.
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:29.760
So put me on the spot here now.
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:45.679
Um yeah, I think it's really like uh opening up our being, you know, being okay to just just share our journeys with people to to just you know process through our journeys, share our journeys really for the sake of discovery and understanding.
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:45.920
Yeah.
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:48.320
Um and I think that's what stories reveal to us.
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:56.880
They they they speak not only to what the situation was, but they also speak to what how we how we potentially handle situations now.
00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:01.760
Like it really comes even to the idea of triggering in some regards too, like just trying to understand and discover.
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:04.400
So that is not a short answer to what you asked me.
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:09.519
Um story work is uh healing work, I think, in some regards.
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:13.599
Um story work is informative work, uh discovery.
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:40.800
Um and story work is not your whole story, it is just like taking an incident in your life that caused harm and spending the time to kind of think about it and not run away from it, get closer to it and to write it down to kind of step into that five-year-old or that ten-year-old, uh, their position and what they were feeling at the time, and then to be able to have people bear witness to that.
00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:42.159
That's that's beautiful.
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:46.800
Because that's that's the other thing is like doing it, having a safe community to do that is huge.
00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:54.400
And and the amount of times people would just even share, like, I yeah, that like I understand a similar story, yeah.
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:57.119
You know, like I've been through something similar, not the exact same thing, right?
00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:03.119
But something similar and just the the beauty of of being able to walk alongside people in that is is is huge.
00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:10.320
So um I say, you know, we may not have like the greatest pitch for it, but just come check it out.
00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:10.559
Yeah.
00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:12.480
You know, I think I think it's worth exploring.
00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:22.719
It's gonna be Monday, uh next I'm sorry, Monday the 28th of September, and that's seven to nine at uh the church up here at 200 Flanders Dreakstown Road.
00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:23.519
Right.
00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:24.800
Oh, that's awesome.
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:27.039
Yeah, we're uh excited about that.
00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:28.880
So many things starting up again, right?
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:31.519
The cyclical nature of our lives.
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:39.280
Um, we want to just remind you that God cares about your full health, your mental, your physical, and emotional health, and he cares about you.
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:43.920
Uh until next time, all we love you, God loves you, and we'll see you soon.
00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:44.400
See ya.
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:45.280
Bye.
