S6E4: "I Am."

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Much of my life I have fought stereotypes, rebelled against narrow definitions of gender identities and roles, only to experience a realm of existence beyond the binaries of right versus wrong, los versus don'ts, ours versus or not.
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Though important to maintain societal structure and order, these are mere transitions on the way to discover a transcendent state of being, even if it is a fleeting experience.
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I have nothing to prove.
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I have nowhere to arrive.
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I am already home, she says in a quiet voice.
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What is it that is being said here?
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Why?
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For whom?
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And for what end?
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Listening to Ma Pfizer, expressing and exploring meanings of life and living in a backdrop of her personal story.
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Hailed as the mother of electronica, Ma Pfizer is a pioneering DJ and music producer, renowned for her significant contributions to India's electronic music scene.
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Born in Africa and raised in Britain, she has brought a unique blend of cultural influences to her music.
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Her dynamic performances have captivated audiences nationally and internationally across various electronic music genres for over three decades.
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Thank you for having me.
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It's such a joy, such an honor, and uh such a personal pleasure for me, Ma, that we are sitting next to each other in our small little home studio and recording this conversation.
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How does it feel?
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It feels great, also because I actually took me about 30 seconds to get to you because we live in the same society.
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So it's even more wonderful.
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Absolutely from one home studio to another.
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Absolutely, undoubtedly.
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Yeah.
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So, Ma, you are a world-known figure.
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You have been in the world of electronic music for more than three decades.
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So I don't know how to introduce you.
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I have no clue.
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So all I did was took help of Google Gemini.
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And I said, let me type out Ma Pfizer and and see what it gives me.
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The good, the bad, and the ugly.
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What will it spit out today?
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But as they say, Google Gemini is one of the best AI tools on the planet for things to kind of sum up.
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Of course.
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When you have summarized a lot of information.
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Absolutely.
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So here is what Google Gemini told me about you.
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Ma Faiza, often referred to as the mother of electronica in India, is a pioneering DJ and music producer, renowned for her significant contributions to India's electronic music scene.
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Born in Africa and raised in Britain, she brings a unique blend of cultural influences to her music, captivating audiences with her eclectic sets that span various electronic genres.
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With a career spanning over three decades, Ma Faisa has been instrumental in shaping India's electronic music landscape.
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I just forgot what Google Gemini says about you.
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Yes.
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How does it feel like slides and video titles?
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That's true.
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No, no, no.
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No, I'm a blip in a in a in a an amazing uh incredible world.
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I feel like a blip.
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I mean, okay, yes, what's true?
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30 years.
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I mean pioneer, we're all pioneers, aren't we?
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You know, I think I think I I humbly am very impressed with what Jim and A spat out there, but I would say if I'm even a tenth of that, I'm very grateful.
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That's so humble of you, and that's so you, Ma.
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What I'm also excited about is having you in a conversation on the season six of our Wings Podcast, which is built around a specific theme called transitions.
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So on season six, I mean we have had 108 episodes prior to this.
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That's incredible.
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That is incredible.
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Like really hats off to that through dedication, and that's really consistency, and that's putting it out there regardless of any outcome, just putting it out there in the universe.
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That's a very precious space to be in.
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So I really admire that, and it's another privilege to be here after 106.
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So I'm I'm you know, I'm I feel like yours is a labour of love and passion, and I'm actually I feel very blessed to to be part of your your season six, and I think transitions is a great, you know, um uh word or prompt for a story, isn't it?
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So when I say the word transition, um you know what comes to your mind, Ma?
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I think movement, I think fluidity, uh transitions, I think milestones, I think shape-shifting.
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You know, for me the word transition has a word transit in it.
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And you know, as a child I used to travel on Indian railways uh long distances for whatever reasons, and every time either there is a change of train or if a particular train is getting late where I am not boarding it at the starting point somewhere in between, you know, the railway platform has a transit room, which essentially says that you are a visitor coming from somewhere and moving somewhere else.
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That's a beautiful word, like in transit means there isn't really a destination, you're in this space of of movement, you know, it's like the same at the airport.
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Um how many times am I transiting?
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I'm taking a second flight and I've got to go through transit, and you're in that kind of that free space where you're not you didn't leave the airport, you didn't you're not going out, you're kind of there, but you're going onward.
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You're not, you know, it's like I don't know, that the whole world in transit is beautiful.
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It means you're you're moving.
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I I think it's a lovely way to describe life that you're in transit because then you you defy the fact that there's a goal or a destination, that it is really you're just in movement, and there's no judgment of what that is.
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So I think all of us uh you know have this amazing opportunity called life in which we transit through various moments, you know, be it childhood, early adulthood, midlife, and so on and so forth.
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But then I think for all of us there are some standout moments which kind of shine bright in in our own personal sky.
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Sure, or pivotal.
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Pivotal moments as as you would want to probably call it.
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So, you know, if I were to ask you, Ma, if there is a particular pivotal moment that kind of comes to your mind right now, here and now, where you felt that you transited from something to something else.
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Well, I would say actually, if I was to start at a at the beginning, if it was more like a timeline, I would say that you know, apart from being born, which is quite a pivotable pivotal moment, isn't it?
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Absolutely.
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Um I think settling into my own skin, I was always a very weird, different child, looked different, spoke different, felt like I had different thoughts.
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Um Asian parents who were also born in East Africa but living in the UK.
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Um, you know, we were different colour, we were just different, and then I realized at school I was different, and I found it very hard to kind of first be comfortable in my own skin, my size, my shape, my thoughts, my dreams, my needs, my all seemed to be very different, including including clothing and shoe size, and everything was just different.
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Like every single thing I need is out of the box from childhood, you know, like I never had shoes that were trendy because already by the time I was six I already had like a size six shoe, and that was you know, that's already adult, and other kids were wearing children's shoes.
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So I just always looked different, felt different.
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I always was like on the edge of everything.
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So I would say the first thing was settling into my own skin, and and I think in a moment where I could give myself a label to define myself in that moment, and so I think for me when I when I uh actually realised that you know I was queer and that I was a woman who loved women, um, and I owned that and I put that out in the universe, and I also had my my first experience with women, sexual experiences, you know, loving experiences.
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Um I think that for me was quite something because the world gave me labels which I couldn't identify with, but this was maybe something I could put out in the world that I could identify with and felt more close to who I am rather than what the world wanted from me.
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Must have been a very challenging process, isn't it?
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Because at the end of the day, you know, putting it out to the world as to who you are in terms of your gender identity is one thing.
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But then negotiating it in your own mind for yourself.
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Well, I think feeling safe now, like I felt safe to say, look, I'm I'm I'm a woman and I love women and I only want to have, you know, relationships with women, and my gender is always I'm born a woman, I'm gonna die a woman, I don't wanna change my gender.
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And in those days there weren't things like all these um pro pronouns that people use, and there wasn't you know non-binary and fluid, and there weren't all these words, you know.
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I think if I'd have had the chance now to be born, maybe I would identify myself in a different way.
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But we didn't have that, you know, when I was growing up.
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So for me, I was just looking I'm a woman and I love women, and yes, okay, I'm a big, tall, strong, different looking, different sounding, different thinking, but still a woman, you know.
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Of course.
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So um for me, once I could own that myself without shame, I could deal with the shame of my parents putting their shame on me, or my society putting their shame on me, and I could deal with that because it wasn't legal in the UK when I came out.
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We had to fight for those rights, and living in India right now it's still not legal.
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It's not illegal, but it's not legal either.
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And queer relationships aren't recognised in any legal way still today.
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So, you know, I've been part of fighting that just because I am that, you know.
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So the fact that I'm I'm queer means I've got to fight for that.
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It's not even that I've just gone to a country and I'm queer and it's already you can already be queer and it's legal and I'm just kind of settling.
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No.
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Every time I've gone to a place which I call my home and I live, so from the UK to also India, it wasn't legal when I came out.
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It is now.
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You know, I legally got married in the UK.
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So but I had to fight for that.
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So w I think as well, battling to be seen, that's a challenge.
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Battling for yourself to say, okay, even though it's illegal and my parents are not going to understand it, and maybe people are gonna put their shame on me, I'm still gonna stand there and be who I am and acknowledge it and not not lie about it and not run away from it, but rather really say it without the shame.
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I think that's difficult.
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But you've also got the fact that it's not even legal.
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So those steps that you own for yourself, for me, once I owned it and I said this is me, I just never lied about it.
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And whatever people felt about it, that was their problem.
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I didn't want to take their shame and I didn't want to take their their problems.
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But you know, uh I think if one has to look at the question of identity, uh and it's such a layered thing.
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Uh but if we were to kind of come down to the fundamentals, and let's say uh let's get down to something called gender identity.
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Now, whether it is a man, woman, or he, she, or they, uh them, so one is at a biological level.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So that that's that's a that's a reality nobody can challenge, nobody can debate, it is what it is, right?
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I'm a man, you are a woman, doesn't matter how I look, how you look, yeah, how you behave or I behave.
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Yeah.
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But then isn't identity as such uh also a social construct according to you?
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Um in the sense people need to understand.
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In the sense, uh, for example, if I say I'm a man and I I look at the first man in my house as I was I was kind of growing up, of course, it's my father and of course and my elder brother, and then they behave and you know operate in the world they do.
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And I kind of ape them because I start believing that I'm a man and this is how I'm supposed to behave.
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For example, um boys or men are not supposed to cry, for example, is something which uh in an unsaid manner boys learn.
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Those I I disagree with that completely.
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Yeah, yeah, of course.
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Today.
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All humans cry, it's but humans.
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The social conditioning is something which you must have fought through a lot.
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I'm still fighting every day because look, I'm I go out in the world and everybody, like nineteen ninety-eight percent of everybody in India will see me as a man.
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And I when I look in the mirror, I don't see a man at all.
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I see a gorgeous, strong, powerful, getting older woman, you know.
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I don't see that.
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So then to go out in the world and be misgendered constantly, constantly, where it's just exhausting.
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It's just it's so mindless.
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So I I'm battling with it, I think till the day I die, depending on what culture I'm in as well.
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Like if I go to the Middle East or if I go, I don't know, to Germany, or if I'm in Turkey, or there are all these different cultures, and they're also going to identify you depending on their cultural lens and their social conditioning.
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So I'm constantly battling with the limitations of most people's reality.
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And that's a battle for life because I defy it.
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I defy the social constructs, I defy the labels, I defy the normative, I defy everything, you know, my shoe size is size twelve, I'm six foot tall, um, you know, my body looks very I'm very, very strong.
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Um but I'm also if you were to know me, I'm such I'm so mothering, I'm so nurturing, but I'm also this strong, powerful, fearless, you know.
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Um so I have so many different aspects of my personality, which other people want to box me in, whereas I have so many layers, as we all do.
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I'm incredible with a spanner and a and a drill set, but I'm also incredible in the kitchen.
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So I mean I have I'm I can change attire, but I can also iron the clothes and do the washing, you know.
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What I experienced, Ma, of you was not a man or a woman, but a person who is so invested in love.
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Yeah, I would say that's uh that's a a a good summary.
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I I I do feel like that.
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That's uh in everything I do, I do I do try to.
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I think that's that's uh big part of who I am.
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And I also have I have people who forget whether I'm male or female, and I think that's incredible gift because you know what the first thing that identifies you is your gender.
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The moment you are born, the first thing they say and the first thing that gets written is whether you're male or female, and you have to pick one.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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They can't be like, oh, I'm not sure.
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Yeah.
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You know, and I don't know if you know this, but baby's genitals they change.
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They really do change.
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There's like three percent of genitals will look like a it'll look like either one at birth, but it'll grow to be something else.
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So there are a lot of people who are just labeled wrongly from birth because of uh, you know, the doctor wasn't drunk, but you know, identified because so it's so important that definition, and it will define your life on very different level, depending which one, whether you're identified male or female.
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So to I always think as I've got older, before it would irritate me, like people would be like, uh, your friend was just saying they can't remember if you're male or female.
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I'm like, are they mad?
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Like, how could you think that?
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But as I've got older, I'm like, my god, what a gift to be able to transcend gender because it so defines you.
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And I think as well, now that I'm older, yes, it irritates me though.
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I go in the women's toilet, they're like sub so they freak out, they scare me.
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I'm so like gentle, and they're like you know, scared, and then I'm like, but you're making me scared, and I'm in the right place, you've got it wrong, and now I want an apology, and I'm I'm tired of this.
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But if I look at it, what a gift to be able to go everywhere and choose which gender I wish to play with.
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Like, I could really right now, I even said that I remember saying this to my wife, I could for the for the next 25 years until I die, I could just say to everyone, I'm a man, and I wouldn't need to bind my breasts, even though they're massive, I wouldn't need to change anything, I wouldn't need to go for voice lessons to make my voice lower.
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I wouldn't I there's nothing because every single moment I, you know, 90% of the moments I'm getting mistaken for a man anyway.
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So isn't that incredible?
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But when I want to, I can also say, but I'm not a man, I'm a woman.
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And you can't def no one can challenge that because that is the truth.
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I am a woman.
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So I'm on this fine line of being able to use my femininity and let's say my masculinity for my own for my own benefit.
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Do you know?
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But if it's a gift.
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It is an unbelievable.
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I believe it is a curse.
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When I was younger.
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Of course.
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I mean, those are those are probably society's ways of protecting its own structures and uh trying to maintain an order and so on and so forth.
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Yes.
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But yes, you know, if I am born of a man and a woman, whether biologically or otherwise I may be born as a male or a female, but there is this beautiful, beautiful concept uh in India uh called the Ardhana Rishwar.
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Okay.
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Which is I am half Shiva and I am half Shakti.
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I am Shiva and Shakti both.
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So I think that's in every cultural, the yin and the yan.
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Absolutely.
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And I think the more that you can for every human, I think for you to be whole, this is what I think, based upon my own experience and as I'm getting older, just what I view from the world, but the more whole you can be, and when I say whole, I mean just not one thing and not one path and not one experience, but the more whole you can be, in including internally, energetically, who are you?
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And if you can develop as many different parts of yourself, and not just the one I'm a man, so I do this.
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So for example, as a man you'd never be a ballerina, or as a woman you've never done welding, or you know, as a man you've not breastfed, or I don't know, but let's you know, pushing the boundaries of your own experiences because we are get to get very limited very we limit ourselves by our own labels or what society's labelled.
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We're like, well, men don't do that, and like you said, women don't do this, and blah blah blah.
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But I think the more whole you can be, you Have so much more tools in your bag as a person, and then you have so much more to share with the world because you're multifaceted, you know?
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In every single way, including energetically.
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So let's let's look at uh any experience of yours, uh you know, wherever you have gone to perform and you are with a with a group of people who are in some ways strangers, but then I know with your music and your energy they connect with you personally so much that you get invited to uh you know private functions and private parties.
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Um how does it feel being amongst these people?
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Whether the gender identity comes in the way or or it doesn't matter.
00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:57.440
Do you know I'd love to say it doesn't matter, but yeah, I you know I still get triggered by it.
00:22:57.599 --> 00:22:58.480
I I'm a woman.
00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:00.000
I want to be seen as a woman.
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:03.039
I think if people see me as a man, I'm really boring.
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:05.119
I it's just a very boring man.
00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:11.759
Whereas I think as a woman I just have so many more things that make me interesting, you know?
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:20.960
And also I don't want to I want to showcase to the world that you can have tall, strong, powerful women that defy the stereotype.
00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:31.839
And I feel like it's partly my duty to the universe to always remind people that your stereotype needs to be smashed.
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:36.319
You know, women are not this that you imagine, they are so many more things.
00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:37.440
So I struggle for that.
00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:45.279
It's like I need to wave that flag to break that stereotype because that's why God gave me life, to s to challenge everybody.
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:53.839
So all of the interactions I have with people, I they'll be like, bro, man, great, or they'll you know they'll touch my breath, and I'll be like, actually, I'm a woman.
00:23:54.000 --> 00:24:02.960
And they'll be like, oh, uh, sorry, yeah, okay, ma'am, uh the and it's fine, and I don't get angry if someone calls me four times bro, bro, bro, I'm late, listen, please.
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:04.799
First of all, how old are you?
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:05.759
You're 22.
00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:06.960
How old's your mother?
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:08.640
Okay, she's 46.
00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:10.559
Do you call her bro?
00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:11.279
No.
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:12.319
I'm 56.
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:15.440
I don't like being called bro, because first of all, I'm not your bro.
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.640
Secondly, I'm not a man, and thirdly, I'm the age of your mother.
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:20.160
A little bit of respect.
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:23.119
You don't have to call me ma'am, but just don't put anything after.
00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:28.880
Just be like Yes, you don't need to say ma'am or bro or man or whatever.
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:29.440
Just don't do it.
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:30.880
Just call me Ma Pfizer.
00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:32.079
Yeah, or don't say anything.
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:37.359
Don't you don't need to, you know, ingratiate me by, you know, or yourself by doing that.
00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:42.000
So I don't I I I just put everyone I just put it to straight.
00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:43.599
I I'm just like, look, I'm a woman.
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:44.720
It's that simple.
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:51.680
And this not, you know, I don't s you know, I if with people who I meet for the first time, they're also confused.
00:24:51.759 --> 00:25:05.440
So I have to kind of put them put to let them know, because I don't want to pretend I'm something that I'm not, because I am not a man, nor do I want to be a man, and nor nor do I want to identify as that.
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:20.079
I'm this beautiful, strong woman that defies the stereotype that you've been sold in the f you know, fairy tales and in your cultural s you know, social conditioning.
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:23.359
And I defy that, and I'm proud to defy that.
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:26.319
God's given me another mission.
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:43.680
You know, I think you are kind of taking the theme of our season six uh podcast of transition to another level, which I'm tempted to call transcendence.
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:47.359
I agree, I agree, because that's what I feel about the gender.
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:55.920
I even I when I describe it, I'm like I feel like I transcend gender, and I think I don't know that many people could do that.
00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:09.680
Even if they like there um uh women or men who wish to actually change their gender, which you can do now, and possibly you would never know that they'd change their gender but they would have to work on a lot of things.
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:21.599
So they'd have to work on if if it was a woman who's changing to to be a man, they'd have to maybe work on their voice or they'd have to and for me I just feel like, oh my god, I've nailed it all.
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:34.319
Like there isn't I'm I'm able to, as I s as I said, be on this this this either above everything or just somehow in this middle where I can put my toe in wherever I wish.
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:44.319
Like if I wanted to, I can be either and I can I can I can do that even though I don't I just want to be seen as a woman.
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:55.680
But if I wanted to, I could just change it and I can anyway once you give somebody the space as a man because men occupy a bit more space.
00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:57.279
So I give an example.
00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:05.200
I was in Turkey and I was with my girlfriend at the time when I was uh twenty three, so that's thirty-three years ago.
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:12.559
In Turkey, I love playing backgammon, it's like one of my favourite games, and I was playing backgammon everywhere.
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:29.599
My girlfriend would be sitting inside having some food, and I or I would be sitting inside and they would be sitting outside having food and I would be sitting with the man playing Batgammon because they had already given me uh the space when they thought I was a man.
00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:36.640
So even when I said I wasn't and I told them I'm a woman, they've already given me the respect that they would normally give a man.
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:39.200
So then once you do that, you can't take it back.
00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:47.119
So once someone places me as a man and I correct them as a woman, I still get the place I got when they thought I was a man.
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:50.960
Because they can't they can't take it away.
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:51.839
Do you know what I mean?
00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:53.200
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:58.799
You know, but you know what what is getting interestingly uh what shall I say?
00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:09.279
Uh realized, if probably that's the right word, is I am this, I am that, and I'm much more.
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:11.440
Yeah, or um everything, isn't it?
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:12.160
Even in between.
00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:15.680
So either I I don't want to get into the either or game.
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:18.480
I would rather be in the both and space.
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:19.680
Yes, yes, yes, sure.
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:22.799
Then you it's my to my benefit, isn't it?
00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:25.839
Because I'm a woman, but I always get the place of a man.
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:33.359
So people like for example, when I go out with anyone, even if I go out with men, I will always get the bill.
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:36.720
Because I'm the alpha male at the table.
00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:40.079
I'm doing my own ordering, I'm like, no, can we change this?
00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:43.119
Or can I just get some one cube of ice in there?
00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:45.440
Or this is so delicious, or what's your name?
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:47.599
So somehow I'm alpha male.
00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:53.440
So at every table, every time, if I'm with women, they think I'm a man, I get the bill.
00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:57.680
If I'm with other men, if somehow alpha male, I'll get the bill.
00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:01.759
And that always, I'm like, even that, when I was like, why do I always get the bill?
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:02.480
What does that mean?
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:04.400
But now I'm like, you know what that means?
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:09.519
On this table, you you somehow commanded that table.
00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:12.559
You are the yeah, your energy.
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:16.960
And I'm I'm like, wow, as a woman, how many women get to do that?
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.680
And I don't do it in a conscious way.
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:30.799
And all this has transitioned, or all this has uh uh played a huge role, I would like to believe, in the world of music.
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:31.440
Of course.
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:37.599
Uh that you are so much of uh you're a part of for for for 30, 40 years now.
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:49.279
So why don't we kind of switch gears and and talk about the world of music that uh has had an impact on you.
00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:58.319
So maybe if you can walk us through as to what has music given you and what you think or you feel you've given music.
00:29:58.640 --> 00:29:59.039
Sure.
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:03.440
Well, I was always very, very interested in music even from childhood.
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:10.720
So I used to play different instruments, so I learned to play instruments, I played in the orchestra, I had different lessons.
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:17.599
Um I used to ask my dad uh to buy me different records, we'd go out and buy records that I liked.
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:18.880
I loved music.
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:34.640
Um I want to say rather than referring to it as music, in the let's say it's about frequencies and music is actually frequency and it's resonance, it's vibe, it's vibrations.
00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:41.519
So I would say I'm very touched and moved by vibrations, or even people's voices.
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:50.480
You know, if someone has a really shrieky voice that's very high pitched, I literally cannot be in the same room as them.
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:53.920
I'm just like, okay, that voice, that frequency, not my thing.
00:30:54.160 --> 00:31:04.559
So I've known from a very young age, so the same with different instruments, different music, I have no genre if I see about what I l what I like and what I don't like.
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:06.160
I'm unlimited.
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:09.519
I just need to feel it, hear it, and does it resonate with me?
00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:12.079
And if it does, then that's all that matters.
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:47.440
I don't care if it's a hundred years old, I don't care whether it's punk rock or classical or from the moon or from I don't know the sound of water or whether it's it it doesn't matter, you know, like I've listened to live instruments being played, like 500 instruments um at a festival, and there was no electronic music, no amplified music, and I've put my ear to the ground and I've just listened to the earth, listened to all those instruments being played and how it sounded on the earth.
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:52.160
And even that for me was music, you know, it's like resonance, frequency.
00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:56.319
So I would say that my musical journey has always been about frequency.
00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:59.119
Somehow the sound was important to me.
00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:03.680
It meant something, it moves me, it gives me energy, it it it shifts me.
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:13.920
So my whole journey, uh I would say is the music uh has defined my um my sonic timeline.
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:16.559
What a beautiful phrase, ma.
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:18.960
Yeah, I've just come up with it now, you know.
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:32.960
It's like it's like a journey, it's it's yeah, it's like a a journey through sound and vibration and frequency and music, but it's it's like it's defined it's defined my journey also.
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:42.799
Because you are what you listen to, you are what you eat, you are the thoughts in your head, you're not what you think you are, rather what you think is what you are.
00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:46.480
You are the five people that you spend the most time with.
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:50.559
You are so many things that uh uh become you.
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:52.880
They shape you.
00:32:53.279 --> 00:33:00.079
So music has really been like my uh the the the journey of of Yeah, like a timeline.
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:12.079
And I've seen as I've grown, as as music's changed, as my access has changed, my community changed, my experiences changed, you know, they reinforce the other.
00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:28.480
You know, it's like when you start on a wellness journey and you I don't know, you start working out, and then from working out you do yoga, and then from yoga you do martial arts, and then from you know, everything becomes a journey, but the one thing that you experience goes on to lead you on another path, no?
00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:43.039
So you kind of you kind of you kind of build on what you were yesterday and be a better version of yourself today, with the hope and belief that tomorrow you will still be a better version of what you are about to become now.
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:46.799
Or even if you even if you don't say better and we say another.
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:47.839
Another, absolute.
00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:49.039
I think I yeah, I'll correct myself.
00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:57.920
Good or bad, regardless, it's another expression, no, and another another another uh possibility.
00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:16.000
So on this note, let me play a piece of your own music, which I will ask you to help us understand what it actually is and how did it uh came to being.
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:17.840
Great.
00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:20.000
Here it goes.
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:16.320
So Mum, unpack this for us.
00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:38.880
Well, this is um um music that I've actually composed and it had I had a a s kind of sonic board, like uh um one of those boards that people use just for ideas, you know, um, where I was briefed and there were maybe a hundred things written on that, you know.
00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:47.840
My client wanted orchestras, but Indian, but silence, but angels, and but you know, he just wanted everything.
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:54.800
He just he was just like, and I was just like, oh my god, okay, I've got to he wants everything, and then somehow he wants nothing.
00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:57.440
So it's just like okay, how do I do this?
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:01.280
So musically I had to kind of interpret this and bring many things to the table.
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:11.360
So the sound of water and the sound of almost like clouds passing, or uh instruments that he liked, or and this was all for a fashion show.
00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:13.119
So I composed that music.
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:28.320
Um it's kind of like a classical Indian uh modern day electronic um storytelling, you know, it was four different tracks which were for a fashion show.
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:38.159
So this is just a a snippet of a moment, but I know what went into that, you know, and I know of course I followed a brief.
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:48.079
So rather than it just being my story, it was created for someone else's story via what I interpreted.
00:38:48.239 --> 00:38:58.639
You know, it's like when someone commissions you commissions you for a painting, you know, it's not an unlimited they don't say, well, just do what you want, you know, it's that's not what this was.
00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:03.440
This was within some boundaries, but breaking those boundaries.
00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:16.159
So if I were to kind of take this experience to your world of EDM where you're putting out a set, but it must be getting received differently by different people, also, isn't it?
00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:19.840
I mean I think absolutely, but I think that isn't that the joy.
00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:26.239
Like it's like anyway, even what any of us say to each other is interpreted.
00:39:26.320 --> 00:39:56.800
Look how many miscommunications happen, because someone would be like, but I thought you meant and you're like, Well, I didn't mean that, I just I said what I meant, but yeah, but I thought, you know, like we're we're all the time interpreting via our our own limited experience of that which is being we're experiencing or uh from what we experienced before, or what society's told us, or what we're scared of, or what triggers us, or it's all our own viewpoint.
00:39:57.039 --> 00:39:59.679
So I think with music, I think there's two things.
00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:07.119
First first of all, certain f let's just say with with sound and frequencies, uh, many of them are universal.
00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:14.400
Means that sound will always have a certain effect on someone.
00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:28.719
So to give an example, different instruments, um string instruments are classed as heart instruments, and in in that you can include the piano because the piano is actually strings inside.
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:29.199
Okay.
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:38.159
But they're more heartful, but they a string instrument will usually uh have a heart kind of frequency to it.
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:42.480
So things that are universal like that.
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:55.760
So if you if I yeah, if somehow uh there are things which are let's say um they are what it is to be human and we will experience them the same.
00:40:56.559 --> 00:41:11.119
And then there's another set of frequencies or some levels of frequencies and sound, which we are interpreting for ourselves, whatever that is, and they will be our own journey based upon our journey up until that moment.
00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:12.000
Okay.
00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:13.920
So there's two things.
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:16.559
One, it's nature, it's defined.
00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:22.880
You'd have to be uh not human to not experience the same that everybody else does.
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:24.639
Can I give an example?
00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:25.119
Please.
00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:25.840
Right.
00:41:26.800 --> 00:41:30.960
So the easiest way to give you is this one example which I quote to everybody.
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:33.519
This one example to show what I'm saying.
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:42.320
Let's say there's 50,000 people of all ages, zero to a hundred, all cultures, all nationalities in a stadium.
00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:43.440
Okay?
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:51.840
Suddenly through the speakers is the nastiest feedback sound.
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:58.559
You know, when the s the microphone goes close to the speaker or some kind of goes, right, like this.
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:31.039
Now, in that moment when you did that feedback sound, if there was a camera taking a picture of everybody's face, you will see that didn't matter male, female, hundred, one, sixty-five, um, small, tall, able-bodied, not, uh, from China, from New York, from you look at everyone's face, nearly all of them will have a similar expression because that sound, that frequency evokes that.
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:33.119
The same like a blackboard.
00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:37.920
You take your nails scratch it and you scratch it down the backboard.
00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:38.960
Oh my.
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:40.719
Look, see, similar face.
00:42:41.119 --> 00:42:41.599
Absolutely.
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:42.559
Right.
00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:44.800
Everybody.
00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:48.159
There is nobody gonna be like, oh yeah, bring it on, that's nice.
00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:49.360
Especially if it's amplified.
00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:49.920
Sure.
00:42:50.320 --> 00:42:53.760
Oh, with huge sound volumes.
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:54.239
Right.
00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:56.400
So imagine that sound amplified.
00:42:56.559 --> 00:43:04.800
Every single person in that stadium, if you took a picture of their face, it's not even that they would they give it energy.
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:08.639
Plus minus, everybody's facial expression would be the same.
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:21.920
Now look at that for programming, because that's what it is to be human, not male, not female, not old, not Chinese, not Indian, not it's what it is to be human, which is of course the first layer of who we are as beings.
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:24.159
And that unites us.
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:27.599
So that's what I'm saying, good and bad.
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:32.960
So that that sound isn't maybe not a good sound, and it triggers something in you, a response.
00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:35.760
And it will be universal.
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:44.239
So on the opposite side, there are certain frequencies which are universal too.
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:59.760
Like when there's a hit pop song record that just resonates with everybody, even if you you know many of the hit songs, pop songs, they'll translate them into other languages, but they'll sing the same song in the same way.
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:22.719
But it'll just be in another language, and still, you won't know what that song, the language spoken, you won't understand the meaning, but it will still invoke the same response because it wasn't even the words, it was the melody and the frequencies that are so universal, and there's there's something in us that's a formula that we as humans respond to.
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:40.000
Like, for example, on Instagram, and there's a very interesting guy, I can never remember his name, and he goes out to different animals in the wild and in zoos, and animals like crocodiles and hippos and elephants and giraffes, and he just plays his guitar and he sings a song.
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:42.239
Like he was playing to a sloth.
00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:43.679
Really?
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:46.639
Yes, and the sloth kind of joined in with him.
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:52.000
Now, and he's right next to them, so he's there with crocodiles who could just come and bite his leg off.
00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:52.480
Uh-huh.
00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:58.800
And he's singing to them, playing the guitar in a very lovely song and very heartful in English.
00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:13.840
If you see the response from the hippo and the giraffe and the elephant and the crocodile, and somehow there's a captivation because also they don't understand the words, they don't know oh that's a guitar, that's my favourite instrument.
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:43.280
They don't have any of that, but what they have is a a a response to frequencies and to a resonance and a vibration, and they're even more um sensitive than we are, because we're so clouded by our mind, they're so pure, that they actually even probably have a more clear channel to be able to really tap into those frequencies and be so authentic.
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:51.840
You know, maybe there's a song that or maybe there's some frequencies that make us want to cry, but we hold it back because of social conditioning.
00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:52.960
They don't have that.
00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:54.880
You know, this happens to me, Ma.
00:45:55.360 --> 00:45:58.960
Uh, whenever I'm kind of watering my garden at the farm.
00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:00.719
The birds come out.
00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:06.639
And there are there are a dozen plus varieties of birds in the farm that we have.
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:09.599
Uh been very fortunate to have it.
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:15.199
But I know the way I water the plant.
00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:19.039
A way I water the plant, a certain bird would come.
00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:19.920
Absolutely.
00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:41.199
And I know for sure that okay, now, and I've experimented this a dozen times, or maybe even more, that if I want a particular bird to show up, I will actually water the plant in a particular manner with a particular force, with a particular sound, and that bird shows up not one but ten of them.
00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:42.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:48.159
So I think the world of sound looks like uh is a very different realm of existence.
00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:49.360
I think it is.
00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:51.119
I absolutely agree with you.
00:46:51.280 --> 00:46:52.880
Even the sound of silence.
00:46:54.800 --> 00:47:08.159
What happens to you in that realm of existence where you have created the music, you have playing the music, you have a couple of hundred people you know dancing to the track that you have put up.
00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:18.880
And I have seen YouTube videos of yours where uh I think in a in a eight or nine minute video, if I were to count, you would have probably done about five thousand steps.
00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:25.039
Probably and so maybe if you could do a three-hour show or a four-hour show, I'm I'm sure you must be putting thirty-forty thousand steps.
00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:28.719
Um, I think a usual show is like between ten and fifteen thousand.
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:34.000
But if I do a long one like I do an eight hour set in Germany, it's fifty thousand.
00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:35.760
So what what happens?
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:37.519
What does sound do to you?
00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:39.679
I think it it transcends me.
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:41.360
I'm just become energy.
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:42.639
I'm no longer human.
00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:46.320
Like for me, even on the stage, I have so many challenges.
00:47:46.400 --> 00:48:10.000
Maybe I'm brokenhearted, maybe I'm sick, maybe I've got a headache, maybe my body's broken, maybe I've smashed my head, maybe my cat's died, maybe I've not slept for three days, maybe I'm mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually exhausted, maybe I've taken four flights, I'm not actually here, I'm still over an ocean somewhere up in the sky, and I haven't actually arrived back in my body.
00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:19.119
Maybe there's so many challenges, but when I'm there, all of that goes away and something else appears.
00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:21.760
It's like something bigger than me.
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:37.280
I'm like a conduit, I feel like a channel, it's like this exchange between the frequencies of the music I'm playing which resonate in this building, so even the space that I'm in, which then resonate with the people, which then they give back to me.
00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:47.519
So it's like this sound uh uh so much like uh the quantum world that the physicist talks about.
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:49.840
Yeah, because we all affect each other, don't we?
00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:51.039
We're don't we?
00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:52.320
Like we're not singular.
00:48:52.400 --> 00:49:03.199
It's like when you put a stone in the in the pond and the ripples and the ripples, or they speak about how a butterfly flaps its wings and fifteen years later there's a hurricane somewhere.
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:13.440
This is also to do with the whole quantum I mean w the I think I think we're kidding ourselves if we think this is only one reality and there's only this one realm.
00:49:13.599 --> 00:49:18.880
There are so many that we dive into and I think the more finely tuned we can be.
00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:28.320
You know, it's like people who can look at you and say, uh, your kidney is not functioning properly and you're like, Well how'd you know that?
00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:34.159
So or people who can go to a piece of land and go, Yeah, dig here, there's water here.
00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:42.000
You know, they carry a stick and they'll So it's how you interpret what's around you, you know?
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:45.519
You know, I have done this experiment uh a couple of times.
00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:55.679
I mean, not that I have the courage to do it uh I mean I sh I can do it many more times, but I I don't have the courage to do it, but I've done that.
00:49:56.320 --> 00:50:01.840
Is now this might sound a little weird, pardon me for that.
00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:08.880
Nothing sounds very weird to me, maybe to your listeners, but you can say anything and I'll be like unweirded out.
00:50:09.199 --> 00:50:32.320
For example, in this very conversation that you and I are having right now, if I were to listen to what you're saying with an attention and intention different than what probably I'm holding at this point in time, a conversation may end up being different.
00:50:33.199 --> 00:50:35.920
Well, of course, because every moment is that moment now.
00:50:36.559 --> 00:50:40.880
And whatever that moment is is what you bring to it, or what you don't bring to it.
00:50:41.199 --> 00:50:41.920
Can you say more?
00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:42.800
Can you say more?
00:50:43.039 --> 00:51:10.880
Well, I think I think every moment has a potential to be whatever is that which you are or want to be or were or and everything somehow is if it comes from us or we experience it, it also has a bit of us in it, even if it's the unconscious or the conscious or the so I think I think everything that you experience, depending on what your experience is in that moment.
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:27.679
Give an example you wake up in the morning, someone calls you and you have a bad call, or you bump into someone and they don't even say sorry, and that's the first person that you've met, or that's gonna imp that may impact your whole day, right?
00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:47.840
And yet you woke up in the morning without a care in the world, or maybe you were really happy, but then someone crashed into you and didn't say sorry, and now you're like angry, and the next person you meet one minute later by chance is somebody who does something very silly and usually it wouldn't bother you, but now you're really bothered by it.
00:51:48.000 --> 00:52:01.119
So energetically we are like little magnets and we attract, we repel, we're affected, we're uh it's very hard just to s to stay like a monk.
00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:11.599
So it's transition not an event in time, but uh something that happens every moment?
00:52:12.159 --> 00:52:12.480
Yes.
00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:14.239
The potential for it.
00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:26.000
It's your choice whether to stay the same or to move through it or to challenge it or to I think I think I th I think it's a beautiful way of looking at life that you're in transit.
00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:27.360
There isn't a destination.
00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:37.039
The destination is unknown for most of us, unless you've had a diagnosis, and even then, whatever the diagnosis you've been given, you can still change it.
00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:47.280
There are people who defied medical diagnosis, there's people who've defied people who've even gone in a coffin and they've said they're dead, and then they found that they're alive.
00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:51.679
So we can all defy the narrative that we're told.
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:57.920
So there is no destination other than death, which we don't know when it will be.
00:52:59.039 --> 00:53:06.639
We weren't alive when we were born, in terms of our maybe our consciousness, but actually remembering it.
00:53:06.719 --> 00:53:20.480
We're none of us, unless we've had some past life or we've done some regression or you've done some acid or you've done some hypnosis or you've done something to go back and say, Okay, now picture the moment you're born.
00:53:20.639 --> 00:53:23.760
I mean, how many of us can say, Oh yeah, I remember that?
00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:28.400
So somehow from our journey is a journey, it's not one stop.
00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:33.679
There is no end, and even when you die, no one can say, is that an ending?
00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:39.280
That may also be another beginning of another life, a beginning of another transition.
00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:43.920
I mean, there is no end, and energy doesn't die, it merely transforms.
00:53:44.239 --> 00:53:50.079
So so then words like future and past are mere concepts.
00:53:50.320 --> 00:53:51.840
Of course, there's only now.
00:53:52.239 --> 00:53:55.440
There is only now, and there will only ever be now.
00:53:55.920 --> 00:53:57.360
So I once.
00:53:58.559 --> 00:53:59.679
I truly believe that.
00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:00.960
There is only now.
00:54:01.760 --> 00:54:12.480
Do you not I mean the past is gone, and the past every sorry to interrupt you, but the past every time you look at it, you look at it from the moment you the last time you remembered it, so it becomes not true anymore.
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:13.760
So it's all memory.
00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:15.199
But is it really memory?
00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:16.719
It's also what you want it to be.
00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:25.440
Like for example, let's say you had a friend, they died well before their time, and now it's almost like you put them on a pedestal.
00:54:25.599 --> 00:54:37.760
You remember this about them, and you remember if they were standing there before you half of the shit that you remembered you wouldn't even remember, and half of what you're remembering isn't true anymore because they're dead.
00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:40.239
And so now you glorify them.
00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:42.079
Or you do you understand?
00:54:42.159 --> 00:54:50.000
Like it's an emotional our narratives are also emotional, they're not devoid of our emotions, and our emotions are constantly changing.
00:54:50.239 --> 00:54:52.400
Are we playing games with ourselves then?
00:54:53.440 --> 00:55:09.760
I d I don't want to say that we're playing games, but I think many times we're maybe not honest, maybe times we're in denial, may many times we lie to ourselves, many times we believe a story that we've been told, we believe the story that we tell ourselves, but I think there is only here and now.
00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:16.239
And if you really are want to enjoy the most out of life, it's being in the here and now.
00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:24.480
And actually, most of the moments that people treasure for a lifetime were the moments where they were in the here and now.
00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:35.519
So what if if each one of us could sing one of my favorite Celine Dion songs?
00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:35.920
Okay.
00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:37.119
I'm alive.
00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:37.440
Okay.
00:55:38.079 --> 00:55:39.039
Every moment.
00:55:39.280 --> 00:55:39.519
Okay.
00:55:40.559 --> 00:55:42.400
What would it do to me?
00:55:42.880 --> 00:55:51.519
I think you would uh it the words that you say have the power to change who you are, like a mantra, like how the people do positive affirmations.
00:55:51.760 --> 00:55:54.800
So I think the more you think that you become it.
00:55:55.039 --> 00:56:04.719
So I think the more you can say to yourself, I'm alive and I'm here in the now, I think that's a beautiful that's I think the most precious place to be.
00:56:04.880 --> 00:56:06.400
Like I'm right here now with you.
00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:08.239
I'm not thinking of anything else.
00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:14.480
I truly can say that even when we're speaking and I have to go into a memory, I'm so here with you right now.
00:56:14.639 --> 00:56:21.679
And I think the more that you can bring of yourself to every moment, just to be there, is the most precious.
00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:27.039
That's what meditation is, that's what that's what life message is, if you see.
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:31.599
All of the guidance that we get is to just bring us into the here and now.
00:56:31.760 --> 00:56:36.400
If we're in the past, then somehow we're not living.
00:56:36.559 --> 00:56:41.280
And if you're in the future, you're planning, you're not living.
00:56:41.840 --> 00:56:49.039
So then the only two words in that sense that comes to my mind right now which matters, is I am.
00:56:49.440 --> 00:56:50.000
Yeah.
00:56:50.239 --> 00:56:50.559
Yeah.
00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:51.280
Full stop.
00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:51.840
Yeah.
00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:53.519
There's no third word required.
00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:54.480
Yeah, there isn't.
00:56:55.199 --> 00:56:56.480
I am, you're right.
00:56:56.719 --> 00:56:58.559
Maybe even no, even I.
00:56:58.800 --> 00:56:59.599
Like what is the am.
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:02.639
What Moses heard on Mount Sinai.
00:57:03.199 --> 00:57:05.920
I am, when he asked God, who are you?
00:57:06.079 --> 00:57:09.599
And all he heard back, I mean this is a story that one has read.
00:57:09.679 --> 00:57:11.760
Yeah, but I am that I am.
00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:12.480
Yes.
00:57:12.880 --> 00:57:17.440
So I think this is a very different position.
00:57:18.239 --> 00:57:21.440
I think our conversation is little digressed.
00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:25.440
I wouldn't say digress because you started the conversation saying that it can go anywhere.
00:57:25.599 --> 00:57:26.320
Yeah, that that's true.
00:57:26.480 --> 00:57:28.000
And we were everywhere.
00:57:28.719 --> 00:57:29.599
It could be everywhere.
00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:33.440
But I think we've come to this beautiful, beautiful place called I am.
00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:44.320
And if I have a But isn't that so precious, because there's no defense, there's no um um nar narrative.
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:50.079
There's I am means everything, and but it also means nothing, no?
00:57:50.239 --> 00:57:52.480
I mean it there's a nothingness to I am.
00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:53.599
It's that simple.
00:57:53.840 --> 00:57:58.480
When something's simple you can also say, well, it's almost nothing. 'Cause it's so simple.
00:57:58.639 --> 00:58:02.400
But in a way, I am gives you unlimited.
00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:05.360
You can make whatever you want from that, no?
00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:07.440
And it doesn't define you.
00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:23.360
You know this is taking me to a very different place, Ma in this conversation because this is not anything that I had imagined this conversation to be.
00:58:23.679 --> 00:58:28.719
It's just that I think I allowed myself to be in the flow with you.
00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:34.719
Probably you chimed in, somewhere we resonated, somewhere we maybe may not have.
00:58:34.800 --> 00:58:51.920
But I think together we have come to this beautiful, beautiful place which says if we can transition even for a moment into this experience that I am.
00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:54.559
I think it's so liberating.
00:58:55.599 --> 00:59:03.440
No judgment, no forgiveness, no acknowledgments, no just it's so simple but so beautiful.
00:59:03.679 --> 00:59:10.800
I mean, okay, if you use that as a defense like why are you like this or I just am like that, I think that's lazy.
00:59:11.119 --> 00:59:19.039
But I think if you just can be in the moment, I think when you say I am, I think that means you're here and now.
00:59:22.400 --> 00:59:28.800
You know, I'm not a uh WhatsApp forward person.
00:59:29.039 --> 00:59:33.360
I mean, I don't forward anything and I hate if something gets forwarded to me.
00:59:33.599 --> 00:59:33.840
Okay.
00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:43.199
It's it's not blind, not for more as in all the stuff.
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:47.599
But then there is something that came uh today to me from Asha.
00:59:47.920 --> 00:59:48.079
Okay.
00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:55.840
And if it comes from her, you know, my my better half, yeah, and she knows for sure what kind of uh I you know can sit with me and doesn't.
00:59:55.920 --> 00:59:57.840
So she said this very interesting thing.
00:59:57.920 --> 01:00:00.320
I'm I I'm kind of tempted to read this out to you.
01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:01.199
Please.
01:00:01.519 --> 01:00:05.360
Um let's say a small little gift from me to you.
01:00:05.599 --> 01:00:06.239
I love that.
01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:10.400
Uh please for for being here on the podcast and spending an hour.
01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:28.159
I'm gonna go back to my home, and it it's definitely gonna resonate with me and maybe allow me to have some different thoughts and maybe have a different outlook for at least a few hours, if not something I can carry with me for longer, you know.
01:00:28.480 --> 01:00:32.719
So here is the little gift to you, Ma from the bottom of my heart.
01:00:33.039 --> 01:00:43.280
Uh and just because it appeared in my inbox today, no reason why, but I'm tempted to read out to you uh a couple of lines here.
01:00:43.519 --> 01:00:43.840
Please.
01:00:44.079 --> 01:00:46.880
The title goes the anti-bucket list.
01:00:47.519 --> 01:00:48.719
I mean, we all know bucket list.
01:00:48.880 --> 01:00:49.360
Yeah, yeah, of course.
01:00:49.519 --> 01:00:54.800
But this is something called the anti-bucket list, and here it goes.
01:00:55.519 --> 01:01:06.400
An anti-bucket list is not pessimism, it's not laziness, it's not lack of ambition, it's something far more liberating.
01:01:07.199 --> 01:01:24.400
An anti-bucket list is a conscious decision about things you do not need in order to feel fulfilled, the experience you do not wish to chase, the expectations you choose not to inherit, the comparisons you decide to stop making.
01:01:25.039 --> 01:01:45.360
Maybe your anti-bucket list says, I do not need to run a marathon, I do not need to visit 50 countries, I do not need to learn every hobby, I do not need public proof that I am living well, I do not need to convert every experience into content.
01:01:47.360 --> 01:01:49.760
The note goes on to end this way.
01:01:50.800 --> 01:02:07.679
Maybe the purpose of anti-bucket list is simple, not to reduce life, but to reduce unnecessary pressure, to create room for authenticity and creativity, to stop living every possible life and start living your own.
01:02:08.159 --> 01:02:19.519
Because at the end of the day, fulfillment may not come from checking the most boxes, it may come from knowing which boxes never needed to be checked at all.
01:02:19.840 --> 01:02:20.880
Yeah, that's beautiful.
01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:21.760
Unquote.
01:02:23.840 --> 01:02:25.920
It's also kind of I am now.
01:02:26.159 --> 01:02:30.800
It's kind of just saying, well, whatever, being at peace with the journey that you're on.
01:02:31.440 --> 01:02:32.079
I think.
01:02:32.239 --> 01:02:34.239
And and the fact that, yeah, fulfillment.
01:02:34.320 --> 01:02:40.480
Anyway, you know, your journey, I I see as I'm getting older, the journey is actually within, it's no doubt.
01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:43.199
You know, what a beautiful journey within.
01:02:43.519 --> 01:02:44.639
What a beautiful note.
01:02:44.719 --> 01:02:46.719
Uh I think we are ending this conversation at.
01:02:46.960 --> 01:02:47.679
That's beautiful.
01:02:47.920 --> 01:02:51.360
And uh, you know, thank you so much, Ma, for coming here.
01:02:51.599 --> 01:03:04.239
And uh joining in uh with me to explore and express what does the word transition mean to me in this moment.
01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:08.239
In this moment, yes, where I am in transit.
01:03:09.119 --> 01:03:09.760
Isn't it?
01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:12.079
It is, yeah, me too.
01:03:12.320 --> 01:03:15.519
So how does it feel uh being in this conversation with me?
01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:17.599
No, I really enjoy it, thank you.
01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:33.039
Food for thought, like really um reminders, um, inspiration to live what we speak and to challenge even my own narrative.
01:03:34.719 --> 01:03:46.079
Because you know, we we tell ourselves stories that we want to hear, and I think it's always beautiful to have these moments where you can reflect and see, and then I can go away and be like, okay, am I really living that?
01:03:46.320 --> 01:03:47.679
Am I just talking about it?
01:03:47.920 --> 01:03:53.360
And maybe what how could I live that more if that's really that resonates with me?
01:03:53.599 --> 01:04:02.480
So I think today is I'm gonna go home feeling I think more more powerful.
01:04:02.800 --> 01:04:20.400
That I I I've had this moment in time with you where I've felt something and I've learned something, and yeah, maybe not to be a better person, but to continue my journey with even more uh uh awareness.
01:04:20.960 --> 01:04:22.159
You take care of yourself.
01:04:22.320 --> 01:04:23.920
Yeah, thank you, you too.
01:04:24.559 --> 01:04:26.719
Thank you for your time today, my dear listeners.
01:04:27.039 --> 01:04:29.760
This is your host, Millin Raghni Hutri, signing off.
01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:33.519
Goodbye, take care, and stay safe.
01:04:41.840 --> 01:04:49.599
This podcast is for general information purposes only and should not be considered as a piece of any professional advice.
01:04:49.920 --> 01:04:54.880
Views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of its guests.
01:04:55.280 --> 01:05:09.840
Creators of this podcast expressly disclaimed any and all liability or responsibility for any direct or indirect consequential or other damages arising out of any individual's use of this podcast.
01:05:10.159 --> 01:05:17.440
For feedback and suggestions, please write to Wings India seventy-five at gmail dot com.
01:05:18.400 --> 01:05:19.280
Thank you.