Nick Fagan

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Lee, why do we do this?
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Do you know what? ChatGPT is a wondrous thing.
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It's kind of scary.
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It's terrifying. I was dealing with it today.
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I was like, you kids are using this the wrong way.
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We do Dungeons and Dragons at school. Why are you
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playing Dungeons and Dragons at school?
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Because it's like our... What do you mean?
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It's like one of our main subjects.
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What?
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On Wednesdays, it's Dungeons and Dragons. Hang on.
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No, no, no. You're not... You're joking. No, I'm not.
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I don't understand. Well, the kids, like, that's like.
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For the kids, that's their main, like, therapy.
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What? Well, rather than.
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Playing sport, like, a lot of kids play Dungeons and Dragons.
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Yeah, well, I.
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Didn't lunch this time with the Christians until they bloody
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barred me and just sown me because I was gay.
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We just played that.
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And they're playing Dungeons and Dragons, hypocrites.
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You should come to our school.
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We're very LGBT. We raised the rainbow flag on Wednesday.
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You'd like it. Okay. As well as gay people. I'll
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go back to school.
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Yeah.
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Welcome back, everybody. Welcome.
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Hello, Josh.
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Hello, Lee. I missed you. I always miss you.
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Thank you.
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I missed you too. We have another episode. We do.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah. We're doing a few. This is good.
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I'm liking it.
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Yeah, Act 2 is soaring on. It's great. Act 2
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is soaring along. I can't believe how many we've done.
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It's quite crazy. I know.
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We are very lucky tonight because we have with us
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in the studios, we.
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Have an actor.
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Director.
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A director.
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Producer.
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A producer.
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A genuine, I don't know, what do you call it?
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A director.
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Well, a theatre superstar, actually. A theatre superstar, really, yeah.
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He's garnered much critical praise. Loves a heavy show with
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lots of swearing. Likes the swears, loves the death and
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the blood.
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And also the director-in-residence at Holden Street.
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Yeah, so if you haven't picked it already, we're talking
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to Nick Fagan. Hello, Nick. Hello, Nick.
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Hello, lads. How are we? Very, very good.
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Great to have you here. Thank you for coming in.
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Nice to be here. Thank you. I feel like maybe you...
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Struggling for people, so you've had to pull me out.
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No, no.
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No, no. You were on the list. You were definitely
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in our top ten. Yes. I can't remember who had
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the top ten.
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Top ten of the bottom five.
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No.
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Yeah.
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Something like that.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Well, Nick, we might just start where we normally start.
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Where did theatre come into your life?
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How did it begin?
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What was your first, yeah, early memory of it?
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Well... Look, I think the first theatre that I was
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involved in was in high school. So to go back
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a little bit further, I'm a cinephile and have been
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since I was a kid. I've always been just film
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has been my life. And all I ever wanted to
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be was a filmmaker or when I was younger, I
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just wanted to be in film. And so I guess when,
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as I grew up, as I got into high school,
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the next, I guess the closest thing to, to sort
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of doing film was, was theater. So, you know, at
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that stage, I think I really wanted to be an actor. So, um,
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there was opportunities at high school. I went to St.
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Paul's college or boys school who didn't have a drama program,
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but there was a teacher there who would put on
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a musical every year. And so, um, being an all
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boys school without a drama program, there wasn't a huge,
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I guess, uh, uptake from, from, from students, but there
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were enough to put on a show. So we used
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to do these, Shows are always written by the same
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company and it was a comedy musical sort of thing. Yes.
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So I started doing that in sort of year, I
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think the first one I did was in year eight
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and then, you know, followed on and started off in
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a really small role and then really got into it. And,
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you know, by year 10, I think I was sort
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of the lead bad guy. And then by year 11
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or 12, I was the.
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Lead actor.
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I don't sing. So that makes it difficult. Do you dance?
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I don't dance. I guess it wasn't a musical in
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the traditional sense of what you might see now. Like
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I said, it was a comedy musical.
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And they wrote them themselves. Almost like a cabaret type dealie.
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Yeah.
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Sort of thing.
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So, you know, I sort of taught myself to sing.
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So a passable version of singing. You were in some
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sort of melody. Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, look, it was...
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And that's where it sort of all started.
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So.
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Yeah, look, I guess from there I went to uni
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and I started an arts degree in professional writing and
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drama was my sub-major. Oh, wow. So we did drama
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and a part of that obviously was, you know, performances
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for the uni and things like that. And I remember
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we did a small production. When I say production, it
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was sort of for the class. Obviously other people could come,
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but it wasn't a big production. We did a– it
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was David Williamson's The Club. No, the perfectionist. David Williams,
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the perfectionist. And I did that, and I thought I
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did a reasonable performance, and I happened to get an
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email on my uni email probably a week later that
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was from a girl. I don't know that she was
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a student anymore, but she saw the performance because she
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had a friend that was in it, and she thought
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I was really good, and she was doing a fringe show,
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and she wanted to know if I would be interested
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in playing the lead in her fringe show.
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Oh, wow.
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Yeah. which I accepted and, and sort of, that's where
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it sort of kicked off properly from there.
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So when did you first kind of get an inkling
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that you're like, Oh, I think I'm actually okay at this.
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I'm pretty good at it.
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Look, I think, you know, I think even in primary school,
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I was always sticking my head. Like I went to
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a Catholic primary school. So, you know, we did, I
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remember we did a Easter time. We did a thing
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about the crucifixion and I played Jesus. So I was
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always like sticking my hand up for, for right. I
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was always like the limelight, I guess, and not being
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on stage. So that was sort of, I guess, then
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when I would have realised. But, yeah, I think just
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as time went on and, like I said, the love
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for film that I had, you know, all I wanted
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to do was make film, be in film. That was
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my dream.
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So when you were in high school, like, what were
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the kind of films that really kind of made an
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impact on you?
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Well... Quentin Tarantino or something.
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Well, Scorsese. You've just nailed it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I
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was just like.
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I mean, Josh, you know we've talked about this too,
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but Quentin Tarantino was... If you ask me at age
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14 who was my hero, it's Quentin Tarantino. If you
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ask me at age 43, it's Quentin Tarantino, right? So
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I've never lost that. So, yes, the types of plays
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that I do in terms of gritty and dark, they're
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the types of films that I was quite interested in.
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But I like all films.
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What's your favourite Quentin film? Pulp Fiction. Yeah, I mean,
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it's great. It's pretty good. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. But, yeah,
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so that's... What was your question? It was in regards to...
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What were the films that kind of started to really.
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Yeah, so, look, you like more of the crime and
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the gutsiness of.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I do, I do. Look, I'm into all film. Like,
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I really am. I can do a romance. I can do,
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you know, a comedy. But I think I'm most drawn
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to those types of films very similarly to the types
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of plays that I'm drawn to, being, you know, a
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gritty story, something I guess that is not necessarily the
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life that I live, you know.
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The life that I see every day.
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We would hope that there was a bit of escapism
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when it comes to it.
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Because is it kind of like the masculine energy of
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it or is it the... I don't know that.
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Do you know what I mean?
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Like those scripts are really well written. I probably worded
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that wrongly.
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Like that's not.
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Like the dialogue.
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In them is stylised to a point where it's actually
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quite Gutsy as well, isn't it?
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Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, exactly right.
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And, you know, some of Quentin Tarantino's films, I find
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some of them actually play out like they're a play.
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They do.
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They're hateful eight. It was like, could have been a play.
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Absolutely. This is theatre, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Side note, do
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you know Quentin Tarantino's next project is a play that
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he's written?
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No, I did not.
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Yeah, yeah, he's written a play.
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Oh, wow.
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And I think it's going to open next year in
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the West End. And I think Sacha Baron Cohen is
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the lead. So who's going to get the first award?
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I think someone's gearing for the rights here.
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You know what? Finally, it's a farce, apparently. But, yes,
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that'll be my first farce. But, yeah, I would be
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devastated if someone took that over me. Absolutely devastated. We
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should probably bleep it out. Yeah, cut that part.
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So you got into theatre and so out of high school,
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what was the first show that you did?
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So it was the play that I mentioned.
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The French. Yeah, which was a play.
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Written by the director and rather the person that sought
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me out and it was called The Blue Couch.
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Yes.
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It was very much a– it was a long time ago.
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I can't necessarily remember the ins and outs of it,
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but it was a story about sort of– I think
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it might have been based on a lot of her
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experiences and it was a story on relationships and young
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people sort of connecting and all that sort of thing.
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So I did that and it was reasonably successful, I think. Again,
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a long time ago, so I can't necessarily remember all
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the ins and outs. And then I think it might
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have been the year after she wrote something else, which
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is called Karaoke, which we did at The Next Fringe.
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So that sort of, I guess, got me into.
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Fringe performing. So that was, yeah, that was kind of
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how it all really started.
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And you've got a family, because you've got two young girls, right?
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And were you having a family at this time? No, no,
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this was way before that.
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No, we're talking 2003, something like that. So I was
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sort of just finishing uni, I think, or in uni,
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my kids, my first girl wasn't born until 2011. Yeah, okay.
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So I was quite young still.
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Yeah, okay. And then what was the first amateur theatre
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show that you did that wasn't a fringe show?
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Good question. I think.
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Because I got closer here in 2009. Yeah, so very similarly,
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that was a fringe show that was put on by
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sort of an independent group. That's Patrick Marber, isn't it?
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It is, yeah.
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Great, great movie, great show. Okay, so this is again
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where it all sort of comes into it. So Closer,
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I saw the movie and was like in awe of it, right?
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Loved the film. I remember I was in Hawaii on
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my honeymoon and I went into a random bookstore and
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I didn't even know it was a play and saw Closer,
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the play, right?
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I bought it, read it, thought, oh, I'm going to
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do this one day. I'd love to do it.
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So I think there might have been a bit of
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a break between the last Fringe show that I'd done
253
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and this time. So there might have been a couple
254
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of years or whatever I hadn't done anything. And then
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I was checking the, I reckon it was the theatre
256
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guide website for the auditions and I saw Closer was great.
257
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being auditioned for.
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And I thought, wow.
259
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I said, I have to do this. So I went
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and auditioned and got it. And, yeah, look, it was very...
261
00:10:52.190 --> 00:10:54.429
It was another young guy that was just putting it
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on off his own bat. And we put it on
263
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at the Fringe. It was at the Little Theatre, actually.
264
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That was at a time where the Little Theatre was
265
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quite readily available to hire.
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It's a great theatre. When, like, the lighting rig worked
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and all that.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So, yeah.
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Yeah, we did that there. And it was, look, the show,
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I think, particularly looking back, had its, you know, it
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probably wasn't a great show. um great players we know
273
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pre wasn't a great show and but some reviews were
274
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very complimentary about my performance which sort of gave me
275
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that sort of confidence to sort of move on um
276
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still to this day i would love to do it
277
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again and still to this yeah i mean keeping in
278
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mind too like i was early 20s and i played
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dr larry the quite long character so i was quite
280
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young yeah we were all you know when you know
281
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when you young people sort of put on plays yeah
282
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often they aren't the right age for the performance that's
283
00:11:48.419 --> 00:11:53.220
probably what was you know they're all great roles they're fantastic.
284
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Yeah i don't know how you modernize it now i
285
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guess you just do tax or something yeah yeah you
286
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know the scene i know the scene you're talking about
287
00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:00.120
in fact when we did that scene what we had
288
00:12:00.139 --> 00:12:02.570
at that particular time was a um they had a
289
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projector and we had you know pretend laptops and now
290
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it was coming out and then of course one night
291
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it didn't work and we didn't, we didn't have the
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lines written down cause we were just, you know, expecting
293
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it to work.
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So we had to sort of improvise that. Um, yeah,
295
00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:19.740
which was interesting, but we got through it. So do you,
296
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in those kinds of moments, are you kind of calm
297
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and Zen and okay, I've got a problem to solve
298
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or are you like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Well, yeah, look,
299
00:12:25.879 --> 00:12:28.320
I think so. Um, I mean, I, I, again, I
300
00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:31.799
wasn't all that experienced at that time, but, um, Yeah, look,
301
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I think I got through it all. In fact, I
302
00:12:34.460 --> 00:12:36.899
think I probably came off better. I handled it better
303
00:12:36.919 --> 00:12:39.879
than my co-actor at the time. But, you know, it was,
304
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I guess, just preparation and making sure that you know
305
00:12:42.740 --> 00:12:43.840
what you're supposed to be doing.
306
00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:47.200
You always kind of need a contingency plan when you're
307
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doing projection, don't you?
308
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Absolutely.
309
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I've done so many shows where you're like, if that
310
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stuff's up, like we have to walk on stage now
311
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and perform that scene.
312
00:12:56.419 --> 00:12:59.450
Yeah. And look, it scared me ever since. I'm always,
313
00:12:59.590 --> 00:13:01.899
you know, concerned when there's something like that that could
314
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go wrong.
315
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I totally.
316
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Like doing the little theatre where you'd like, I hope
317
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the tech's going to work. Like just little things and
318
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you're like, oh, we're going to have TVs in the
319
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middle and it's going to show stuff.
320
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I'm like, okay, okay, all right. I know, I know.
321
00:13:17.389 --> 00:13:19.169
And now the beauty, I guess, of being a director
322
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is that I don't have to worry about that from
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a perspective.
324
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Do you consciously avoid it, though, as a director, kind
325
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of going, okay, I want to minimise kind of any?
326
00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:31.669
Yeah, look, I don't think I'm big on, I don't
327
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think I've used a lot of technology as such in
328
00:13:34.629 --> 00:13:38.809
my shows outside of the norm. Yeah. I think one
329
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of the key things is, and putting on a successful show,
330
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is knowing your limitations. So I don't think, I think
331
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being too brave in terms of, what you're going to
332
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do is not always a smart move because it doesn't
333
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necessarily in the budget and the capabilities that we have
334
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work out how you might have it in your head.
335
00:14:00.029 --> 00:14:03.879
Because it can point out how... Yeah, absolutely.
336
00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:06.779
This is the man who had a revolve of stage
337
00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:11.090
on most last shows. Yeah, and we had a lot
338
00:14:11.110 --> 00:14:14.470
of trouble with that. Yeah, okay. But, yeah, you're right.
339
00:14:15.529 --> 00:14:17.970
And, in fact, my last show, we did have a
340
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little bit of projection, and I don't think I've done
341
00:14:20.009 --> 00:14:22.769
that ever before, but it was the kind of projection
342
00:14:22.809 --> 00:14:25.539
that if it didn't work, it didn't matter. Yeah, okay.
343
00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:26.519
Thankfully it worked.
344
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Yes.
345
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But, yeah. but yeah so yeah i mean look i
346
00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:32.259
guess to answer your question um i don't use a
347
00:14:32.299 --> 00:14:36.700
lot of technology generally um but again i try and
348
00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:39.220
keep within my limitations and i think part of the
349
00:14:39.259 --> 00:14:42.120
beauty of of our theater that we do is that
350
00:14:42.370 --> 00:14:45.309
um you know it is quite it can be quite
351
00:14:45.370 --> 00:14:48.129
simple but the the beauty of it is the performances
352
00:14:48.169 --> 00:14:50.570
and is is how well it's sort of put together
353
00:14:50.629 --> 00:14:53.289
so yeah look i think that um We don't need
354
00:14:53.309 --> 00:14:54.789
all that. I think we can leave that for.
355
00:14:55.429 --> 00:14:56.570
For the flashiest stuff.
356
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Yeah, for the companies with the budget and technology to
357
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do so.
358
00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:03.419
It was interesting hearing a bit of the criticisms for
359
00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:08.009
the salesman, how they used projection, kind of wasn't really,
360
00:15:08.129 --> 00:15:09.070
didn't add anything to.
361
00:15:09.820 --> 00:15:10.389
The show.
362
00:15:10.409 --> 00:15:11.899
Did you see it? No, I didn't see it, but
363
00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:13.379
I just heard. Well, I did see it, and I'm
364
00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:15.120
just trying to even think about the projections.
365
00:15:15.419 --> 00:15:16.500
Just the car at the start.
366
00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:17.379
Oh, yeah.
367
00:15:17.419 --> 00:15:18.179
You know what?
368
00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:19.940
I didn't actually think about that after I saw it,
369
00:15:19.940 --> 00:15:23.340
but yeah, it's probably right. That did come across as
370
00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:23.860
a little bit.
371
00:15:24.179 --> 00:15:24.360
Yeah.
372
00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:26.240
Could have been done a different way.
373
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:26.879
Yeah.
374
00:15:26.980 --> 00:15:28.299
That may have been more effective, I think.
375
00:15:28.889 --> 00:15:32.929
Well, because you also worked for an amazing, lovely man,
376
00:15:33.029 --> 00:15:37.409
jumping back to your acting, Matt Byrne, like with Reservoir
377
00:15:37.470 --> 00:15:39.769
Hot Dogs. So you kind of got to relieve this
378
00:15:39.789 --> 00:15:41.149
Quentin Tarantino thing too.
379
00:15:41.340 --> 00:15:44.179
Which part did you play? No, I didn't play any
380
00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:45.809
of the misters, actually. It was actually one of the,
381
00:15:46.179 --> 00:15:48.659
because of my love for Quentin Tarantino, when I saw
382
00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:52.620
that that was being put on by Matt, who I
383
00:15:52.659 --> 00:15:55.470
didn't know, and again, I don't think I'd done anything
384
00:15:55.980 --> 00:15:58.159
I hadn't done much prior to that. So I didn't
385
00:15:58.179 --> 00:15:59.820
really have a name for myself. So I kind of
386
00:15:59.860 --> 00:16:02.840
went into this audition sort of the unknown and sort
387
00:16:02.860 --> 00:16:03.679
of a bit blind to it all.
388
00:16:04.340 --> 00:16:06.179
I got the role of.
389
00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:10.580
Detective Holdaway, who's the cop that sort of trains Mr.
390
00:16:10.659 --> 00:16:14.220
Orange to be an undercover cop. Yes, yeah. So it
391
00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:15.639
was a reasonable part, but it wasn't one of them.
392
00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:19.580
And for me at that particular time, I was devastated.
393
00:16:19.639 --> 00:16:21.620
Like I would do anything to be in that show.
394
00:16:22.330 --> 00:16:24.830
because I just wanted to be in it. But the
395
00:16:24.909 --> 00:16:27.590
fact that I didn't get one of the main roles
396
00:16:27.629 --> 00:16:29.929
was like, I didn't know how I was ever going
397
00:16:29.950 --> 00:16:33.730
to get over that. No, we've all been there, haven't we? But,
398
00:16:33.789 --> 00:16:35.509
you know, I had a really good time with it,
399
00:16:35.570 --> 00:16:38.570
and it was really fun working under Matt. Met some
400
00:16:38.590 --> 00:16:42.450
really nice people. Who was in that? Rowan Watts, Dave Grabowski,
401
00:16:42.509 --> 00:16:44.250
Mark Clement.
402
00:16:44.429 --> 00:16:44.690
Alan.
403
00:16:45.149 --> 00:16:47.730
Yeah, Alan. What's Alan's surname?
404
00:16:48.509 --> 00:16:48.889
It's gone.
405
00:16:49.350 --> 00:16:50.210
Go on. I've worked with him.
406
00:16:50.309 --> 00:16:52.009
Sorry, I've worked with me on Jerusalem too.
407
00:16:52.690 --> 00:16:55.470
But, yeah, it was some really, really good actors in that.
408
00:16:56.230 --> 00:16:59.070
And it was really great fun. We had a great time. Yeah.
409
00:16:59.090 --> 00:17:01.629
It was, you know, generally pretty good. Where was it performed?
410
00:17:01.710 --> 00:17:02.809
At Holden Street.
411
00:17:03.210 --> 00:17:03.830
Oh, right. Okay.
412
00:17:03.850 --> 00:17:05.930
Because he used to do upstairs at the wine bar.
413
00:17:05.970 --> 00:17:08.130
He did lots of other different kind of interesting places.
414
00:17:08.930 --> 00:17:13.349
So when did you start, like, kind of tittering into–
415
00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:15.450
So it wanted to be an actor, it wanted to
416
00:17:15.470 --> 00:17:18.099
be in film, and then suddenly you're starting to, is
417
00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:21.039
it because of a lack of shows being put on
418
00:17:21.059 --> 00:17:21.960
that you wanted to see?
419
00:17:22.099 --> 00:17:25.559
Essentially. I mean, I can tell you exactly what it was. Basically,
420
00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:28.720
there were, I felt, we've talked about the types of
421
00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:31.549
shows that I like and types of films that I like,
422
00:17:31.829 --> 00:17:33.809
and as far as I was concerned, I didn't see
423
00:17:33.869 --> 00:17:36.180
enough of that type of stuff being put on. you know,
424
00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:37.720
stuff that interested me, but I was looking at it
425
00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:38.920
from the perspective of an actor.
426
00:17:39.109 --> 00:17:39.640
Yeah.
427
00:17:39.829 --> 00:17:42.529
Stuff that I wanted to play. Also similar to that
428
00:17:42.690 --> 00:17:45.410
experience that I had with Matt with Reds or Dogs,
429
00:17:45.789 --> 00:17:47.250
you know, I didn't have much of it. I didn't
430
00:17:47.269 --> 00:17:50.109
have a name for myself. So I wanted something that
431
00:17:50.210 --> 00:17:53.470
I could showcase myself. I wanted to give myself a
432
00:17:53.549 --> 00:17:55.509
lead role so I could show what I can do
433
00:17:55.549 --> 00:17:58.099
and hopefully sort of move, you know, move up the
434
00:17:58.130 --> 00:18:01.650
ranks from there. So after I did Closer, I realised
435
00:18:01.930 --> 00:18:03.950
this guy just sort of put this on himself. You know,
436
00:18:03.990 --> 00:18:06.210
he put up his own money. He did it at
437
00:18:06.230 --> 00:18:08.170
the Fringe. And this was at a time where, you know,
438
00:18:08.210 --> 00:18:08.829
Fringe wasn't.
439
00:18:08.670 --> 00:18:10.390
As big as it is now.
440
00:18:10.579 --> 00:18:15.440
You could literally get a venue for free, you know,
441
00:18:15.460 --> 00:18:17.619
a bar or something. And they would, you know, the
442
00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:19.339
benefit for them was they had a bar sales. And
443
00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:21.099
so it wasn't, you know, like it is now where,
444
00:18:21.690 --> 00:18:23.630
most places are charging an arm and a leg to sort.
445
00:18:23.549 --> 00:18:26.970
Of find rehearsal space and all that sort of stuff.
446
00:18:26.990 --> 00:18:30.730
Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, so I thought to myself, I
447
00:18:30.950 --> 00:18:33.250
can do this. I can find a play that I
448
00:18:33.349 --> 00:18:35.690
wanted that, that, that would, you know, I want to
449
00:18:36.009 --> 00:18:38.150
be in and I, that there's a role, a nice
450
00:18:38.210 --> 00:18:39.869
role for me and I'll put it on myself at
451
00:18:39.890 --> 00:18:41.710
the fringe. And so that's exactly what I did. There
452
00:18:41.730 --> 00:18:45.490
was a play called tape by Steven Belver. Uh, and
453
00:18:45.630 --> 00:18:47.460
I put it on at the fringe and it's a,
454
00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:50.150
It's a film also. Also, the way I found it,
455
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:53.089
it was a film with Uma Thurman and Ethan Hawke. Yes.
456
00:18:53.390 --> 00:18:55.849
Which I loved. Did they meet on that one or something?
457
00:18:55.930 --> 00:18:57.509
Say again? They met on that set?
458
00:18:57.609 --> 00:18:58.130
They may have.
459
00:18:58.490 --> 00:19:02.619
Yeah, I'm not 100% sure. No, they met in Gadiga. Ah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.
460
00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:03.599
Thank you.
461
00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:08.039
Great film. Yeah. Well, we study it every year, so... So, yeah,
462
00:19:08.099 --> 00:19:11.660
so I really loved that. The key for me was, again,
463
00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:14.430
I knew even back then, keep it within your limitations.
464
00:19:14.509 --> 00:19:17.009
Understand what your limitations are. I wanted a play that
465
00:19:17.029 --> 00:19:20.049
was set in one room, that didn't have any scene changes,
466
00:19:20.069 --> 00:19:22.450
that didn't have anything technical that needed to happen. And
467
00:19:22.529 --> 00:19:25.109
so we did that and we did it at a
468
00:19:25.710 --> 00:19:29.430
bar in the upstairs area. I don't think the bar
469
00:19:29.450 --> 00:19:32.259
even exists anymore. I can't remember exactly what it's called.
470
00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:33.640
Which street was it on?
471
00:19:34.339 --> 00:19:36.710
What's the street that's got the... Post office is on
472
00:19:36.930 --> 00:19:39.950
the trade, the big post office sorting. In the city?
473
00:19:39.970 --> 00:19:43.839
In the city, yeah. King William? No. Not Guja. Not
474
00:19:43.859 --> 00:19:44.680
far from Chinatown.
475
00:19:44.740 --> 00:19:45.140
Yeah.
476
00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:47.250
It wasn't at La Boheme, was it? No, it wasn't.
477
00:19:47.269 --> 00:19:49.150
Great Street? No, there was Deck Street over there. I
478
00:19:49.170 --> 00:19:49.970
know which one you're thinking about.
479
00:19:50.420 --> 00:19:51.089
Anyway, I can't.
480
00:19:51.220 --> 00:19:54.230
I can't. Fine, my memory gets worse and worse. Oh
481
00:19:54.369 --> 00:19:57.210
my God, yeah, yeah. But yeah, so we did it
482
00:19:57.230 --> 00:19:59.269
there in their upstairs area, which was perfect because it
483
00:19:59.289 --> 00:20:00.309
was all set in a hotel room.
484
00:20:00.450 --> 00:20:01.009
Yes.
485
00:20:01.369 --> 00:20:05.740
And look, it was really successful. I got good reviews.
486
00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:08.079
I think I made some money on it.
487
00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:08.700
It was really good.
488
00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:12.599
And that was something that I guess allowed me to
489
00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:15.559
sort of showcase myself myself and yeah so that's so
490
00:20:15.859 --> 00:20:18.819
i have so to answer your question about uh directing
491
00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:21.819
i directed that as well as was in it because
492
00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:26.319
purely i didn't have the milk i didn't have the
493
00:20:26.460 --> 00:20:28.740
it's funny as you the as you get older and
494
00:20:28.829 --> 00:20:30.670
more experienced and you look back and you go, I
495
00:20:30.670 --> 00:20:33.849
would never do that again. Like it's such a terror.
496
00:20:33.910 --> 00:20:36.450
I think it's such a young person thing to do.
497
00:20:36.690 --> 00:20:39.029
And it's not, and I guess it's not because I
498
00:20:39.069 --> 00:20:41.619
had to direct myself. It was because I didn't want
499
00:20:41.660 --> 00:20:44.180
to direct it. I, you know, I just had to. And,
500
00:20:44.619 --> 00:20:46.400
and if I did like, why would they want to
501
00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:48.619
do this show that this guy that's done nothing before
502
00:20:48.660 --> 00:20:49.559
is putting on himself.
503
00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:53.029
So when you pick plays to do now, do you
504
00:20:53.150 --> 00:20:57.640
see yourself, In them at all? No, you've reached that
505
00:20:57.700 --> 00:20:58.839
point of objectivity that.
506
00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:00.579
Well, I'm not all that.
507
00:21:01.269 --> 00:21:03.849
I won't say I'm not interested in acting, but I
508
00:21:03.910 --> 00:21:06.329
don't look at plays from that perspective anymore.
509
00:21:07.390 --> 00:21:08.109
Interesting.
510
00:21:08.210 --> 00:21:10.089
I look at it from a director's perspective. What you
511
00:21:10.109 --> 00:21:12.599
want to see. Yeah, absolutely. So, in fact, I probably
512
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:14.829
look for stuff that I don't... don't want to be
513
00:21:14.849 --> 00:21:18.019
in because maybe there's an opportunity to be in something.
514
00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:21.119
Later on where you can act in something later with
515
00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:24.200
a director. Chris, I always find that interesting when you've got...
516
00:21:24.660 --> 00:21:26.420
I think maybe it's a bit easier on film because
517
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:29.289
you can watch a clip or something, right? But how
518
00:21:29.309 --> 00:21:32.690
do you modulate and how do you plot your performance
519
00:21:32.769 --> 00:21:33.829
when you're also directing?
520
00:21:33.849 --> 00:21:35.269
How do you have that? Absolutely.
521
00:21:35.369 --> 00:21:36.730
I mean, you do that as an actor, right? You
522
00:21:36.789 --> 00:21:38.869
are doing that at the same time, but there's also...
523
00:21:39.019 --> 00:21:40.240
The big picture stuff, I guess.
524
00:21:40.420 --> 00:21:43.619
Yeah, 100%. I think being a director pretty much solely
525
00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:47.670
now for the last eight or so years, it blows
526
00:21:47.730 --> 00:21:52.069
my mind to think that actors don't think they need...
527
00:21:51.890 --> 00:21:53.769
If actors think they don't need a director or think
528
00:21:53.809 --> 00:21:54.950
they can direct.
529
00:21:54.990 --> 00:21:55.390
It's just.
530
00:21:55.819 --> 00:21:56.599
It's crazy.
531
00:21:56.900 --> 00:21:57.180
Yeah.
532
00:21:57.299 --> 00:21:59.839
And I just wonder how much better the show and
533
00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:03.440
my performance could have been... had I had an objective
534
00:22:03.500 --> 00:22:06.319
eye directing. Yes. I think it's better the way I'm
535
00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:06.700
doing it.
536
00:22:06.700 --> 00:22:07.980
Well, that's great.
537
00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:09.539
But here's the thing.
538
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.809
Would you have listened to that objective opinion at the
539
00:22:12.869 --> 00:22:14.049
time if you did have that?
540
00:22:14.609 --> 00:22:17.730
Well, it's hard to say, isn't it? Look, and I guess...
541
00:22:18.509 --> 00:22:20.849
So to go on a little bit, so following that,
542
00:22:21.009 --> 00:22:23.509
I directed a play again that I chose because it's
543
00:22:23.529 --> 00:22:27.220
something that I wanted to be in called The Motherfucker
544
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:31.339
With The Hat. Ah, I remember. I watched that one. Yeah. Now...
545
00:22:32.059 --> 00:22:33.950
with that when i say i directed it i was
546
00:22:34.029 --> 00:22:36.950
smart enough to know that that wasn't the best way
547
00:22:36.990 --> 00:22:38.829
to go so i got a co-director in which was
548
00:22:38.950 --> 00:22:40.490
which i got matt houston which i think may have
549
00:22:40.509 --> 00:22:43.230
been his first directing um.
550
00:22:42.690 --> 00:22:47.099
Yeah terrible actor too terrible yeah yeah yeah yeah the
551
00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:50.180
worst i tell him all the time every chance i get.
552
00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:53.589
So in saying that the reason i guess why i
553
00:22:53.630 --> 00:22:56.490
wanted to co-direct is because I didn't want to lose
554
00:22:56.529 --> 00:22:59.430
complete creative control over this thing that I really wanted
555
00:22:59.450 --> 00:23:02.940
to put on. Matt directed that show, but I guess
556
00:23:02.980 --> 00:23:06.359
being a co-director, at least in my mind, allowed me
557
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:11.720
to have a say. And look, it worked out really
558
00:23:11.740 --> 00:23:13.700
well and I was really pleased with it and it
559
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:15.279
was really well reviewed.
560
00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:17.769
That was at the Adelaide Oval, wasn't it?
561
00:23:17.900 --> 00:23:22.700
It was, yeah. Emma Knights was as part of what
562
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:25.859
she was curating for Fringe had the Adelaide Oval, and
563
00:23:26.019 --> 00:23:27.099
we got the opportunity to put it on. It was
564
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:27.539
like in their.
565
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:29.259
Yeah, it was like a function room.
566
00:23:29.299 --> 00:23:31.799
Yeah, a big function room, which is not ideal, I guess,
567
00:23:31.819 --> 00:23:33.859
for a play. For Fringe, it was... It was wonderful.
568
00:23:33.980 --> 00:23:36.799
It was a wonderful experience. You know, there were some limitations,
569
00:23:36.859 --> 00:23:39.539
like we could only do... It was only over two nights.
570
00:23:39.579 --> 00:23:42.400
We could only do three shows. So we did a
571
00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:45.059
day and then one night and then the next night. And,
572
00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.119
you know, I love that place so much. I still do.
573
00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:51.279
And I would love to have had an opportunity to
574
00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:53.819
do an extended season or do it again or something
575
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:56.640
like that. And it was really successful too. It went
576
00:23:56.700 --> 00:23:58.960
really well. But that was just, you know, what we
577
00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:00.559
had available to us at the time.
578
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.140
Where does heavy rain sit within?
579
00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:06.069
Steady rain. Steady rain, that's the one. Yeah, so when
580
00:24:06.089 --> 00:24:08.880
I went on to talk about Motherfucker then, I just
581
00:24:08.910 --> 00:24:12.059
realised that in between... Yeah, I reckon you did a
582
00:24:12.099 --> 00:24:13.440
fringe film in between.
583
00:24:13.460 --> 00:24:14.299
Yeah, you're right.
584
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:16.480
So we did A Steady Rain, which again was a
585
00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:20.079
play that I read and loved and wanted to play.
586
00:24:20.119 --> 00:24:22.349
Where did you put that on? We actually did two
587
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:24.529
seasons of that. So the first season was in the
588
00:24:24.589 --> 00:24:27.430
fringe and I had Ben Todd direct it. And so
589
00:24:27.450 --> 00:24:30.450
that was one where I allowed myself to not be
590
00:24:30.490 --> 00:24:32.650
involved in terms of drama. I still produced it and
591
00:24:32.829 --> 00:24:34.269
put up my own money and all that sort of stuff.
592
00:24:35.240 --> 00:24:37.559
But it's basically, and so myself and Rowan Watts were
593
00:24:37.579 --> 00:24:41.440
the two characters, main characters. I think I saw you
594
00:24:41.579 --> 00:24:43.740
in that. It was two chairs or something in the thing.
595
00:24:44.059 --> 00:24:46.400
I think I saw it at Holden Street. That was
596
00:24:46.460 --> 00:24:47.240
our second season.
597
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:52.809
And I thought, who is this really talented bald guy?
598
00:24:53.250 --> 00:24:57.210
Really? Actually? Or Roland's not bald. You were great.
599
00:24:57.279 --> 00:25:00.160
I just remember being absolutely blown away by you going, oh,
600
00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:02.240
my God, these guys are amazing.
601
00:25:02.380 --> 00:25:04.599
And it was something that I'd never seen before. It
602
00:25:04.619 --> 00:25:07.059
had a grittiness to it. So I found that because
603
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:09.940
there was a clip Hugh Jackman and Daniel Craig did
604
00:25:10.140 --> 00:25:12.940
on Broadway. And there was a clip where someone's phone rang.
605
00:25:13.380 --> 00:25:15.779
And Hugh Jackman sort of in character stopped the play
606
00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:17.640
and said, answer it. Go on, answer it. Right. And
607
00:25:17.660 --> 00:25:20.299
so it went sort of viral. So I saw that.
608
00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:22.109
I was like, what is this play? Because I thought,
609
00:25:23.009 --> 00:25:24.769
you know, it seemed right up my alley. And I
610
00:25:24.809 --> 00:25:27.849
found it and it was a steady rain. And so
611
00:25:27.869 --> 00:25:29.730
we put it on the fringe. So the first season
612
00:25:29.750 --> 00:25:31.630
that we did, we did it at a, again, this
613
00:25:31.650 --> 00:25:33.059
is one of those opportunities where you just find a
614
00:25:33.099 --> 00:25:35.660
bar or something. We did it at a restaurant called
615
00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:38.299
Turi Bar. Yes. Turi Bar, I think it was called. Excellent.
616
00:25:38.630 --> 00:25:41.269
Yeah, I think I know it. Which is a restaurant, right?
617
00:25:41.450 --> 00:25:44.670
So we literally sort of pushed the tables back, stuck
618
00:25:44.710 --> 00:25:48.380
chairs in there, and then had our two chairs, which,
619
00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:50.359
as you know from seeing it, that's sort of all
620
00:25:50.380 --> 00:25:50.759
we needed.
621
00:25:50.900 --> 00:25:53.619
Is that more nerve-wracking, doing it in that kind of environment?
622
00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:56.230
It was. I mean, people were sitting closer than... I
623
00:25:56.269 --> 00:25:57.490
know this is a podcast, but then what you and
624
00:25:57.569 --> 00:26:00.809
I are sitting right now. Yeah. But that's fringe though. Yeah, absolutely.
625
00:26:00.829 --> 00:26:03.369
You do those rooms where you can just see the
626
00:26:03.450 --> 00:26:05.450
nostrils of the people that you're performing for.
627
00:26:05.730 --> 00:26:07.730
But I think it's also, I know that when I
628
00:26:07.750 --> 00:26:10.309
host Pudding Club and stuff like that, right, like because
629
00:26:10.329 --> 00:26:13.930
you're in that restaurant environment and stuff, you've not got
630
00:26:13.970 --> 00:26:14.710
everyone's attention.
631
00:26:14.829 --> 00:26:16.029
People are talking and stuff.
632
00:26:16.329 --> 00:26:18.509
And you kind of just have to get in the
633
00:26:18.529 --> 00:26:20.990
zone and kind of, perform over it really.
634
00:26:21.109 --> 00:26:23.660
Yeah. Look, I think in that situation, like the restaurant
635
00:26:23.700 --> 00:26:25.460
at the time we went on had closed. So it
636
00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:27.619
was purely people that were there for the show. Okay.
637
00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:29.599
And it was, you know, just a whole heap of chairs.
638
00:26:29.619 --> 00:26:32.700
So that, that wasn't really an issue, but we were
639
00:26:32.740 --> 00:26:35.549
sort of like literally half a meter away from our
640
00:26:35.690 --> 00:26:37.849
front of our audience, which, you know, at first, yeah,
641
00:26:37.869 --> 00:26:39.490
it is really nerve wracking, but I found like you'd
642
00:26:39.609 --> 00:26:41.990
pick someone and, and you'd tell the story to them,
643
00:26:42.049 --> 00:26:43.470
and it was great.
644
00:26:44.049 --> 00:26:46.490
I think Holden Street, you do the same thing. You're
645
00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:48.319
not too far away from the front row.
646
00:26:49.019 --> 00:26:51.259
But I love that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. Intimate
647
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:53.119
theatre is wonderful. Little theatre is the same thing.
648
00:26:53.539 --> 00:26:56.440
You do connect with the person that you're telling the
649
00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:57.420
story to.
650
00:26:57.539 --> 00:26:58.539
It's a really nice experience.
651
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:00.599
We just don't have to work as hard, I don't think.
652
00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:04.859
You can do a hard swallow, and it can be registered.
653
00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:07.660
And they can see the tear rolling down your face.
654
00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:07.900
Yeah.
655
00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:09.940
If you can do it.
656
00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:13.759
Yeah. So we did that there, and it did really
657
00:27:13.819 --> 00:27:16.000
well and got sort of like a lot of five-star reviews.
658
00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:18.420
And then this was a time when the ATG Awards
659
00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:20.630
were still around. We got nominated for Best Show at
660
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:26.470
the ATG Awards and Best Ensemble, and we won Best Ensemble. Wow. Congratulations. So, yeah, thanks.
661
00:27:26.529 --> 00:27:30.690
It was quite a while ago. Yeah. What was ATG Awards?
662
00:27:30.890 --> 00:27:31.730
Yeah.
663
00:27:31.930 --> 00:27:33.170
And so then we decided to put on a second
664
00:27:33.210 --> 00:27:36.339
season because, you know, I think we might have done
665
00:27:36.380 --> 00:27:38.579
five or six shows during the Fringe. We're like, we
666
00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:40.660
want to sort of, you know, we're not done with
667
00:27:40.700 --> 00:27:43.380
this yet. And was the second season different? Did it
668
00:27:43.500 --> 00:27:44.079
feel different?
669
00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:44.410
Was it?
670
00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:48.259
Not overly. No. Okay. No, not overly. There was a
671
00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:50.240
bit of time in between. It might have been six
672
00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:50.680
months maybe.
673
00:27:50.740 --> 00:27:51.039
Okay.
674
00:27:51.059 --> 00:27:53.619
So, you know, it was sort of reimagined a little bit.
675
00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:54.180
Yeah.
676
00:27:55.059 --> 00:27:55.619
Yeah, but no.
677
00:27:55.660 --> 00:27:57.579
Well, I only ask that because when we were talking
678
00:27:57.619 --> 00:28:00.619
to David Gauci, he had done like another show and
679
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:01.740
he was like, maybe we shouldn't have done it the
680
00:28:01.779 --> 00:28:03.700
second time. It wasn't kind of, it was different.
681
00:28:03.740 --> 00:28:06.400
It wasn't the same. Yeah, no, look, I think the
682
00:28:06.420 --> 00:28:08.980
only thing that was probably different was the intimacy. I mean,
683
00:28:09.009 --> 00:28:11.150
Holden Street, as you know, as we just talked about,
684
00:28:11.170 --> 00:28:14.289
is an intimate theatre. But it was a bit, it
685
00:28:14.329 --> 00:28:16.750
wasn't the same as sitting nose to nose with those people.
686
00:28:16.769 --> 00:28:19.210
So it probably did lose a bit of that feel.
687
00:28:19.410 --> 00:28:20.069
Yes.
688
00:28:20.509 --> 00:28:24.880
But, you know, still reasonably, I think, and a lot
689
00:28:24.900 --> 00:28:27.140
of people that were like yourself who only saw it there,
690
00:28:27.779 --> 00:28:29.579
you know, didn't know any different and still thought it
691
00:28:29.619 --> 00:28:30.700
was really good.
692
00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:34.559
So then that trajectory keeps going and you just keep directing.
693
00:28:34.660 --> 00:28:37.950
What do you think you liked about or loved about
694
00:28:37.990 --> 00:28:41.329
directing that kind of kept pulling you that way rather
695
00:28:41.349 --> 00:28:42.490
than going back.
696
00:28:42.390 --> 00:28:45.569
Into the acting? So I think, as I mentioned, you know,
697
00:28:45.630 --> 00:28:48.069
it was all about the role. It was all about
698
00:28:48.130 --> 00:28:51.119
acting first. And then, you know, I guess I kept this,
699
00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:53.720
did the motherfucker with the hat and then I kept...
700
00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:55.140
What am I going to do next? What am I
701
00:28:55.140 --> 00:28:58.200
going to do next? And I'm still reading a lot
702
00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:00.180
of plays to find this next play. And I've started
703
00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:03.660
to find... I'm reading these plays and I love this, but.
704
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:06.369
No one's going to do it. Well, no, not some.
705
00:29:06.390 --> 00:29:09.009
Well, a little bit of that, but also this doesn't
706
00:29:09.029 --> 00:29:12.309
necessarily have a role for me. This person's 30 years
707
00:29:12.369 --> 00:29:14.450
older than me, this lead character. And I'm like, but
708
00:29:14.470 --> 00:29:17.680
I want to do this. So... i think where it
709
00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:21.119
started was with jerusalem so i i read that and
710
00:29:21.140 --> 00:29:22.809
i was like this is like the best thing i've
711
00:29:22.849 --> 00:29:26.529
ever read and but it's not it's not really for
712
00:29:26.589 --> 00:29:28.529
me as an actor yes but i want to do
713
00:29:28.549 --> 00:29:31.069
it and so that's when i submitted it to um
714
00:29:31.309 --> 00:29:34.049
the guild and they said yes and that's sort of
715
00:29:34.109 --> 00:29:36.809
where it started so i guess i guess from the
716
00:29:36.849 --> 00:29:40.670
success of jerusalem uh how well it done how well
717
00:29:40.690 --> 00:29:43.069
it was reviewed and received and and you know we
718
00:29:43.089 --> 00:29:44.630
won a heap of awards i think i was like
719
00:29:44.690 --> 00:29:48.759
maybe there's maybe i don't need to be in these
720
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:52.019
plays maybe i you know follow this little ride this
721
00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:54.599
little train for a little while and um.
722
00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:58.329
Here we are sort of Did that change the way
723
00:29:58.369 --> 00:30:01.569
that you're... Because directing always scares me. Like, I think
724
00:30:01.589 --> 00:30:04.569
I've got the vision and the organisation for it and
725
00:30:04.589 --> 00:30:06.569
all that kind of stuff. But I think what scares
726
00:30:06.609 --> 00:30:08.569
me about doing it is I think I would be
727
00:30:08.650 --> 00:30:11.849
very prescriptive about how.
728
00:30:11.670 --> 00:30:12.670
I want some things done.
729
00:30:12.710 --> 00:30:13.970
And I don't necessarily know if.
730
00:30:14.299 --> 00:30:17.500
So, transitioning from the actor to the director, did you find.
731
00:30:18.309 --> 00:30:21.400
That harder was your style as far as getting the
732
00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:24.559
performances out? Because you're learning as you're going too, aren't you? Absolutely.
733
00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:27.839
And I was really nervous. Like, I remember doing that
734
00:30:27.900 --> 00:30:31.140
first read-through for Jerusalem and I just had such imposter syndrome.
735
00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:31.660
I was like.
736
00:30:32.019 --> 00:30:35.390
Well, you had some very hardcore, strong cast in there
737
00:30:35.430 --> 00:30:37.049
that would be... It's a big play.
738
00:30:37.170 --> 00:30:41.970
It's a... Yeah, yeah. It's a three-hour play. Three-plus-hour play. Business.
739
00:30:41.990 --> 00:30:42.529
Yeah.
740
00:30:42.670 --> 00:30:44.490
Caravan on stage, all that sort of thing.
741
00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:46.079
Yeah, complicated... Yeah.
742
00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:46.740
Yeah. I mean.
743
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:50.029
You started off pretty big. Yeah, well, it's funny because
744
00:30:50.049 --> 00:30:50.670
I mentioned, like.
745
00:30:50.710 --> 00:30:53.349
When I did Tate that the whole goal was play
746
00:30:53.369 --> 00:30:56.869
with one scene. Yeah, yeah. And so I sort of
747
00:30:56.990 --> 00:30:59.500
followed that through, like, Steady Rain, Two Chairs.
748
00:30:59.539 --> 00:30:59.859
Yeah, yeah.
749
00:30:59.940 --> 00:31:02.859
And then Motherfucker wasn't overly complicated. To a show that
750
00:31:02.900 --> 00:31:04.900
has a van on stage, right? A van, yeah, yeah, yeah.
751
00:31:04.940 --> 00:31:06.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
752
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:09.920
Yeah, that's right. And, you know, again, thinking about it now,
753
00:31:10.049 --> 00:31:13.289
I think Jerusalem– although there is a caravan on stage,
754
00:31:13.569 --> 00:31:16.359
there was no scene changes. So that was probably still
755
00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:18.980
my thought process when I can do this. Yeah, once
756
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:19.859
the set's done, that's it.
757
00:31:19.900 --> 00:31:20.240
Yeah.
758
00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:23.519
Skipping forward a little bit, that's no longer a fear
759
00:31:23.539 --> 00:31:25.980
of mine. In fact, I think sometimes I'm doing things that, like,
760
00:31:27.500 --> 00:31:29.680
you look at it on first glance and go, how
761
00:31:29.740 --> 00:31:31.799
would I ever do this? And now I just go,
762
00:31:32.059 --> 00:31:33.059
I'll find a way. I'll just do it.
763
00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:34.299
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Solve the problem.
764
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:34.599
Yeah.
765
00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:38.440
But you enjoy the challenge then? Yeah.
766
00:31:38.740 --> 00:31:40.819
Do you find players where you're like, Well, what's the
767
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:43.380
next thing that I can try to do? Because I find, like,
768
00:31:43.700 --> 00:31:47.359
just looking at your trajectory, you're always picking the next
769
00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:48.500
challenge almost.
770
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:52.059
Yeah, I think somewhere I am. I think I'm still
771
00:31:52.099 --> 00:31:56.019
at the stage where I'm just knocking off my bucket list. Like,
772
00:31:56.039 --> 00:31:58.619
I've got these big bucket lists of plays, which, you know,
773
00:31:58.619 --> 00:32:01.759
12 shows in, whatever it is now, I'm sort of.
774
00:32:02.470 --> 00:32:04.710
got it right down and i'm finding new stuff to
775
00:32:04.789 --> 00:32:07.089
add to that so i don't know that i'm necessarily
776
00:32:07.130 --> 00:32:09.930
looking for what's the next it might come across it
777
00:32:09.970 --> 00:32:11.970
might happen to be that way but i don't know
778
00:32:12.029 --> 00:32:14.630
that i'm necessarily going what's my next big challenge that
779
00:32:14.670 --> 00:32:17.190
i can do for me it's just what's more great
780
00:32:17.289 --> 00:32:19.670
theater that i can put on great plays that i
781
00:32:19.690 --> 00:32:21.230
can present yeah.
782
00:32:20.910 --> 00:32:22.880
I reckon we get nick to direct an opera Well,
783
00:32:22.930 --> 00:32:26.279
I mean, I think some of the best pieces of
784
00:32:26.420 --> 00:32:28.519
art that's ever produced by people who don't like the
785
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:31.819
form end up doing really amazing.
786
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:36.279
Stuff because they see it from a different perspective, I think. Yeah.
787
00:32:36.500 --> 00:32:39.819
So, yeah, look, I think your question was about coming
788
00:32:39.859 --> 00:32:40.400
into it from.
789
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:42.720
Yeah, and from a directing style as far as how
790
00:32:42.740 --> 00:32:43.740
does that inform that.
791
00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:47.660
I did have huge imposter syndrome and I worked with,
792
00:32:48.420 --> 00:32:49.980
I mean, it was only the show before that I
793
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:52.890
was acting in. it might've been just before that, which was, um,
794
00:32:53.089 --> 00:32:57.150
the conspirators, which is my first play with red Phoenix.
795
00:32:57.829 --> 00:33:00.150
And I remember, although I had, I mean, I had
796
00:33:00.170 --> 00:33:04.000
a reasonable run of plays before that, that I'd been in. Um,
797
00:33:04.180 --> 00:33:08.000
I remember walking into that and having as an actor,
798
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:13.549
absolute imposter syndrome. I, I'm, I see Brant Eustace, Emily Branford, um,
799
00:33:13.700 --> 00:33:15.630
Adrian Barnes, Tony.
800
00:33:15.390 --> 00:33:20.539
Bush, um, Russell Slater was in it. Russell Slater was
801
00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:21.539
in it.
802
00:33:21.980 --> 00:33:23.640
Steve was in it. Steve Marvin.
803
00:33:23.660 --> 00:33:24.539
Steve's in everything.
804
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:29.740
You say Steve and he's most likely in here. So
805
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:33.720
I just remember going, I'm out of my league here.
806
00:33:33.819 --> 00:33:37.089
And it's funny because then, I don't know, the time frame,
807
00:33:37.109 --> 00:33:38.809
which surely was only within a year, year and a
808
00:33:38.809 --> 00:33:43.349
half later, I'm directing these guys. So I still, I
809
00:33:43.390 --> 00:33:46.359
had obviously then established a relationship with them, but Again,
810
00:33:46.380 --> 00:33:48.660
I hadn't directed anything outside of my own sort of
811
00:33:48.700 --> 00:33:53.069
fringe stuff. And again, I had like this huge, like,
812
00:33:53.089 --> 00:33:55.049
these guys are going to find me out. I don't
813
00:33:55.069 --> 00:33:56.690
know what I'm doing here. Like, I'm just sort of
814
00:33:56.750 --> 00:34:02.119
winging this. But, you know, like most great actors, they...
815
00:34:02.549 --> 00:34:03.829
you know, listen to their director.
816
00:34:03.849 --> 00:34:06.230
Because that's a massive role for Brant, who played the
817
00:34:06.269 --> 00:34:08.909
lead in that. Like, were you very conscious of having
818
00:34:08.949 --> 00:34:11.469
to really kind of set him up and get people
819
00:34:11.489 --> 00:34:14.190
around him to support him through that demanding role?
820
00:34:14.289 --> 00:34:19.110
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, when I do something, particularly
821
00:34:19.269 --> 00:34:23.989
with theatre, like, I'm not the type of person that'll
822
00:34:24.010 --> 00:34:29.469
just put anyone in or it'll be right. Like, I
823
00:34:29.510 --> 00:34:32.659
make sure I cast that to perfection. Um, so I
824
00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:35.400
had a, you know, wonderful act supporting actors around him.
825
00:34:35.460 --> 00:34:38.099
And at the end of it all, I guess, um, I,
826
00:34:38.380 --> 00:34:40.340
I know in Brant and I still talk with Brant,
827
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:43.559
obviously we've worked a lot together since. Um, but at
828
00:34:43.579 --> 00:34:46.079
the end of that play, Brant said that it was
829
00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:49.300
the best piece of art he's ever made in his life. Um,
830
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:55.000
and he had done quite an extensive, quite an extensive piece. Um,
831
00:34:55.480 --> 00:34:59.179
so I knew, and you know, the actors were very
832
00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:02.150
complimentary at the end of it all with, my directing
833
00:35:02.210 --> 00:35:05.800
style and, and, and the process and just the general experience,
834
00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:09.099
which I thought, well, maybe I'm, you know, maybe I
835
00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:10.059
did okay.
836
00:35:10.099 --> 00:35:12.619
So, um, what's the process for you then? How do
837
00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:16.909
you start and progress through directing a show? Is there
838
00:35:16.929 --> 00:35:18.050
a first stage? Do you have a bit of a
839
00:35:18.150 --> 00:35:19.389
ritual of how you go about it?
840
00:35:19.949 --> 00:35:23.050
Not really. Um, I, in fact, the more shows I do,
841
00:35:23.429 --> 00:35:26.739
I find the more organic i'm getting in terms of
842
00:35:26.760 --> 00:35:28.340
the process yeah that.
843
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:30.860
Just means your instincts developing.
844
00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:33.920
Yeah i yeah i think so i um don't do
845
00:35:33.940 --> 00:35:36.920
a lot of preparation anymore um like with jerusalem and
846
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:40.320
then subsequent shows like i you know i think i
847
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:43.250
had jerusalem a year before we went on like i
848
00:35:43.309 --> 00:35:45.690
knew i was i was doing it i remember you
849
00:35:46.349 --> 00:35:49.690
know going to sleep six months beforehand we before we're
850
00:35:49.710 --> 00:35:52.610
starting and like thinking about what i'm going to do
851
00:35:52.650 --> 00:35:55.369
right that doesn't happen anyway and that's primarily because I
852
00:35:55.389 --> 00:35:57.769
don't have the time. Lately I'm going from one show
853
00:35:57.849 --> 00:36:00.710
with one week break to the next, right? Yeah. I
854
00:36:00.730 --> 00:36:03.329
would be panicking. And are you working full-time at this point?
855
00:36:03.369 --> 00:36:03.590
Yeah.
856
00:36:03.769 --> 00:36:06.130
Yeah, I'm still working full-time. And a family.
857
00:36:06.389 --> 00:36:07.570
And a family, yeah.
858
00:36:07.869 --> 00:36:15.610
And quite a reasonably difficult and busy job. Yeah. So, look,
859
00:36:15.650 --> 00:36:21.090
I guess at that stage I was feeling– I'd need
860
00:36:21.110 --> 00:36:23.670
to do everything right and have this vision. And I
861
00:36:23.730 --> 00:36:25.530
always do come in with, obviously, with a vision and
862
00:36:25.550 --> 00:36:25.710
an idea.
863
00:36:25.730 --> 00:36:27.670
But you're also kind of wanting probably to prove yourself too,
864
00:36:27.710 --> 00:36:29.170
like I can do this, I can do that job.
865
00:36:29.190 --> 00:36:31.519
Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't let myself fail with Jerusalem. I
866
00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:33.800
was like, this is my opportunity. I've got all these
867
00:36:33.860 --> 00:36:38.420
fantastic actors. I've sold this to them, this play that
868
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:40.579
is the most, you know, one of the most amazing
869
00:36:40.599 --> 00:36:43.590
things I've ever read and, you know, is considered one
870
00:36:43.610 --> 00:36:45.789
of the best plays of the 21st century and blah, blah, blah, blah,
871
00:36:46.070 --> 00:36:49.389
and all that. And I've got to now deliver. Yes. Because,
872
00:36:49.570 --> 00:36:51.619
you know, if it bombed and it didn't do well,
873
00:36:51.739 --> 00:36:54.579
then I guess that might be it for me. You know,
874
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:57.860
not necessarily, but, you know, it'd be difficult to get
875
00:36:57.880 --> 00:36:59.920
that calibre of actor again and get them to trust
876
00:36:59.940 --> 00:37:02.880
you and get companies to give you the opportunity that
877
00:37:02.900 --> 00:37:06.559
the Guild gave me for that. So, you know, that
878
00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:11.239
was planned quite meticulously, I think. And probably my subsequent
879
00:37:11.260 --> 00:37:12.909
shows were too. I think the next one might have
880
00:37:12.929 --> 00:37:15.409
been Bengal Tiger at the Baghdad Zoo, which, again, was
881
00:37:15.469 --> 00:37:20.519
at the Guild. But I've certainly found now the more
882
00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:23.860
experience I gain, I guess. And I guess, too, knowing
883
00:37:23.980 --> 00:37:29.300
my act as well. You've developed your shorthand now. Knowing
884
00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:30.260
what people can do.
885
00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:30.940
I compare it.
886
00:37:30.920 --> 00:37:34.559
To when I started as a teacher and just freaking out.
887
00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:37.989
Everything was to the letter T. design lesson plans. See,
888
00:37:38.030 --> 00:37:39.130
now you just don't care.
889
00:37:39.230 --> 00:37:41.210
Yeah, now I'm just like, what the fuck are we doing?
890
00:37:41.289 --> 00:37:44.570
I'm not lazy. I'm not lazy. It's just like, oh,
891
00:37:44.630 --> 00:37:46.429
that's what we're talking about. Okay. Yeah.
892
00:37:46.530 --> 00:37:47.070
Let's jump in.
893
00:37:47.090 --> 00:37:48.829
Let's go. Yeah. So that is sort of how I
894
00:37:48.849 --> 00:37:53.590
feel now. I guess one of the things, one of
895
00:37:54.409 --> 00:37:57.329
my style, I guess, and I think one of the
896
00:37:57.349 --> 00:37:59.409
things that a lot of actors appreciate because they do
897
00:37:59.449 --> 00:38:02.969
tell me this about my director is that I allow
898
00:38:03.090 --> 00:38:06.889
them to play and um, I allow them to, um,
899
00:38:07.469 --> 00:38:10.429
you know, to, to contribute more than just being the
900
00:38:10.469 --> 00:38:13.210
person during the lives. Right. So, um, and I think
901
00:38:13.250 --> 00:38:16.880
that that's quite, I think that's my success in the
902
00:38:16.900 --> 00:38:18.800
success of some, a lot of my shows are because
903
00:38:18.940 --> 00:38:23.719
I am very collaborative, um, genuinely collaborative. And I know
904
00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:28.110
that actors are worth more than just, uh, you know,
905
00:38:28.329 --> 00:38:31.289
readers of a, words on a page yes they can
906
00:38:31.309 --> 00:38:34.550
yeah their ideas and they add so much so i
907
00:38:34.769 --> 00:38:37.090
i basically go in with a bit of a blank
908
00:38:37.130 --> 00:38:39.730
canvas and allow them to organically show me what their
909
00:38:39.789 --> 00:38:41.969
thoughts are and then i tweak i don't like that
910
00:38:42.010 --> 00:38:43.800
i do like that i'm thinking this i don't you
911
00:38:43.820 --> 00:38:46.389
know so um i guess.
912
00:38:46.179 --> 00:38:50.739
That classic nick fagan direction no that was shit what
913
00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:53.429
did you mark But sometimes Nick would just go, no,
914
00:38:53.469 --> 00:38:53.989
that was shit.
915
00:38:54.179 --> 00:38:55.210
Okay.
916
00:38:55.230 --> 00:38:59.710
But you were like, yeah, it was. Yeah. I think
917
00:38:59.769 --> 00:39:07.199
actors generally appreciate the honesty. You also cast collaborative actors too. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
918
00:39:07.219 --> 00:39:08.880
And that's a big part of it, I think.
919
00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:10.920
Is that because I was going to ask you how
920
00:39:10.940 --> 00:39:12.380
you cast and what do you look for?
921
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:16.679
Look, I think the main thing is that I cast
922
00:39:17.010 --> 00:39:18.969
who I think I know this is stating the obvious,
923
00:39:19.010 --> 00:39:21.059
but I cast who I think is a good fit.
924
00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:23.840
When I read that role, I'm like, I picture that
925
00:39:23.900 --> 00:39:26.849
character and I go, that's a Josh. In fact, I
926
00:39:26.889 --> 00:39:28.610
did that with Hangmen. Like I read that and I
927
00:39:28.610 --> 00:39:29.969
was like, and even though it was very different to...
928
00:39:30.019 --> 00:39:34.360
anything you'd done, I'm like, Josh can do that. So yeah,
929
00:39:34.820 --> 00:39:37.219
I do think about, I do read it and then think,
930
00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:38.989
you know, who would be a good fit for that.
931
00:39:39.570 --> 00:39:41.880
But again, I also don't want to cast people that
932
00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:45.280
I know are problematic or difficult to work with. And luckily,
933
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:46.880
I've had a lot of those people, to be honest
934
00:39:46.900 --> 00:39:49.559
with you, because I think I do my homework. I
935
00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:51.179
speak to people that are there. Well, you directors talk
936
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:55.079
to each other. You go, what's this person like? Yeah, absolutely.
937
00:39:55.760 --> 00:39:57.760
You might see someone on stage and think they're very good, but.
938
00:39:58.530 --> 00:40:01.710
you know, what another director that has worked with them
939
00:40:01.750 --> 00:40:02.590
might think very differently.
940
00:40:02.610 --> 00:40:04.250
And you've got people like Heather and stuff who are
941
00:40:04.269 --> 00:40:05.690
behind the scenes and still that stuff.
942
00:40:05.730 --> 00:40:07.809
Yeah, absolutely. And Heather's, you know, usually worked with most
943
00:40:07.869 --> 00:40:10.610
people in those instances too. But at the same time,
944
00:40:10.829 --> 00:40:15.960
in saying that, I don't allow one director's opinion of
945
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:19.440
their experience with an actor to completely dictate whether I
946
00:40:19.539 --> 00:40:21.679
use him or not. If they said, look, there was
947
00:40:21.699 --> 00:40:25.639
this huge issue and da-da-da-da-da and, you know, and I'm like, oh,
948
00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:27.909
it's not someone I really want to work with, But
949
00:40:27.969 --> 00:40:29.409
if they just say, oh, look, they were really hard
950
00:40:29.429 --> 00:40:33.090
to direct, I think, well. That could be a personality thing. Absolutely.
951
00:40:33.139 --> 00:40:36.099
Maybe that short directing style that didn't fit them. And,
952
00:40:36.219 --> 00:40:38.179
you know, and I have cast actors that I've been
953
00:40:38.219 --> 00:40:40.219
told by directors, no, look, I've got to be careful
954
00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:42.480
with that particular person. And I've had a really good
955
00:40:42.519 --> 00:40:44.139
experience with them and got a really good output from them.
956
00:40:44.219 --> 00:40:48.199
Yeah, well, it's all personalities at the end of the day. Yeah.
957
00:40:48.699 --> 00:40:50.849
And I think a big part of being a director
958
00:40:51.050 --> 00:40:57.289
is managing people management. and managing not just people but
959
00:40:57.489 --> 00:41:00.780
actors who, as we know, aren't people.
960
00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:07.300
How do you know when an actor's done it?
961
00:41:08.750 --> 00:41:10.070
The way you want it?
962
00:41:10.170 --> 00:41:12.769
Like, is it a feeling or is it like a,
963
00:41:13.489 --> 00:41:16.409
is it a musical thing? You're hearing it in a
964
00:41:16.449 --> 00:41:18.170
certain way and it goes, okay, that sounds right.
965
00:41:18.190 --> 00:41:20.239
Like, how do you go? Okay. I'm happy with that.
966
00:41:20.489 --> 00:41:22.159
Cause it's like being an artist, right? Like, how do
967
00:41:22.179 --> 00:41:24.739
you know when you're finished drawing those ridiculous circles on
968
00:41:24.760 --> 00:41:27.639
that horrible painting? But like, um, do you mean like,
969
00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:28.860
how do you know? Okay.
970
00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:31.579
I'm happy with that. It's done. You know what, Lee? This,
971
00:41:32.380 --> 00:41:35.159
cause someone has asked me this before about, um, why
972
00:41:35.389 --> 00:41:38.869
I think that my shows are successful, why I think
973
00:41:38.909 --> 00:41:44.489
I'm a good director. And, you know, as simple and
974
00:41:44.750 --> 00:41:49.010
silly as this might sound, I think that I know
975
00:41:49.710 --> 00:41:52.110
what looks good and what works, right? And I know
976
00:41:52.150 --> 00:41:54.869
that sounds stupid, right? Because doesn't everyone know what works
977
00:41:54.889 --> 00:41:56.489
and what looks good? But how many times have you
978
00:41:56.510 --> 00:41:59.530
gone to a show and seen something that just doesn't
979
00:41:59.590 --> 00:42:01.969
work and you've gone, how did the director allow that
980
00:42:02.010 --> 00:42:04.739
to happen? what did they not see they had a
981
00:42:04.780 --> 00:42:07.969
meeting about that i see right so so obviously that's
982
00:42:08.070 --> 00:42:12.170
not something that's sort of in everyone in every director's
983
00:42:12.789 --> 00:42:15.269
like it's not a strength of every director maybe so
984
00:42:15.289 --> 00:42:19.920
to answer your question i think i just know i
985
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:23.219
think i see it and i go that works and
986
00:42:23.300 --> 00:42:25.179
that is going to work for this for a wider
987
00:42:25.260 --> 00:42:27.639
audience and that is yeah what i want and that
988
00:42:27.659 --> 00:42:30.420
is how i see that character and And so, yeah,
989
00:42:30.739 --> 00:42:33.619
I guess it's just that instinct of knowing. Because I've
990
00:42:33.659 --> 00:42:36.719
not had the privilege of working with you yet. You've
991
00:42:36.739 --> 00:42:38.519
turned me down a couple of times. Sorry, but I
992
00:42:38.539 --> 00:42:40.119
will work with you if you ever ask me again.
993
00:42:41.659 --> 00:42:45.360
Because is it the playing that you like as well?
994
00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:48.039
Because I hear that you are very collaborative.
995
00:42:48.340 --> 00:42:50.340
You do, like, play a lot.
996
00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:54.800
And, see, that is exciting, especially for any good actor.
997
00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:56.559
You want to be able to play and do all
998
00:42:56.579 --> 00:42:57.110
that stuff.
999
00:42:58.010 --> 00:42:58.159
When.
1000
00:42:59.090 --> 00:43:01.329
They're not getting it though. How do you, is it
1001
00:43:01.349 --> 00:43:03.469
like a slight whisper on the side or do you
1002
00:43:04.010 --> 00:43:05.369
kind of go how?
1003
00:43:06.130 --> 00:43:09.610
Look, it depends on the actor. It depends on, I guess,
1004
00:43:09.650 --> 00:43:14.090
my relationship with the actor, how I think they are
1005
00:43:14.130 --> 00:43:17.840
best to take feedback. Generally speaking, I will, so I'll
1006
00:43:17.860 --> 00:43:19.940
give notes at the end of a show like any director,
1007
00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:23.900
at the end of a rehearsal. And if it's like, Josh,
1008
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:26.739
the way you sort of said this line, I'll tweak
1009
00:43:26.780 --> 00:43:27.960
it a little bit. That's fine. I'll do it in
1010
00:43:27.980 --> 00:43:28.239
the group.
1011
00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:30.159
And then I go home and cry.
1012
00:43:31.340 --> 00:43:35.880
But when it's something very, when it's like, Lee, I
1013
00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:38.369
don't think the way you're doing this character at the
1014
00:43:38.389 --> 00:43:41.510
moment is what I, it's working, whatever.
1015
00:43:41.530 --> 00:43:43.489
I will all the.
1016
00:43:43.449 --> 00:43:46.260
Time pull them aside. and just have a chat. Because
1017
00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:48.039
I don't think, I don't know that there's a benefit.
1018
00:43:48.079 --> 00:43:49.059
I think, you know, an actor.
1019
00:43:49.460 --> 00:43:51.420
You don't want to make an example of someone in
1020
00:43:51.460 --> 00:43:54.440
front of everybody else because that just shuts them down creatively,
1021
00:43:54.460 --> 00:43:54.809
doesn't it?
1022
00:43:54.820 --> 00:43:57.159
That's right. And it's not telling them off. It's never
1023
00:43:57.199 --> 00:43:59.760
telling them off. It's just, I think we need to
1024
00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:01.219
do this differently. And I don't know that there's a
1025
00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:03.590
benefit to doing that in front of everyone.
1026
00:44:03.949 --> 00:44:05.829
No, no, no. I agree.
1027
00:44:05.989 --> 00:44:07.630
Yeah, so I'll always do that. In fact, I mean,
1028
00:44:07.650 --> 00:44:13.079
I did it recently. I remember saying to someone, I
1029
00:44:13.099 --> 00:44:15.460
gave notes and I said, and I'll speak to you
1030
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:15.920
in a sec.
1031
00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:17.920
And like, and then I realized how that looks.
1032
00:44:17.940 --> 00:44:19.260
And I said to everyone, I'm not going to like
1033
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:22.659
read it the right way. I just, I, I, you know, just,
1034
00:44:23.099 --> 00:44:24.449
I don't think there's a benefit in doing it in
1035
00:44:24.489 --> 00:44:26.800
front of everyone. And then we had a chat and yeah.
1036
00:44:26.820 --> 00:44:30.190
Yeah. Cause sometimes, I mean, that must be hard sometimes
1037
00:44:30.210 --> 00:44:32.670
to go. They're thinking they're doing a really great job
1038
00:44:32.730 --> 00:44:34.550
and they've just not got it yet. You know, like
1039
00:44:34.610 --> 00:44:37.070
it's kind of, I mean, again, you've got kids too,
1040
00:44:37.110 --> 00:44:38.949
so there's a way you could talk to people and
1041
00:44:38.989 --> 00:44:41.250
you kind of... Yeah, but I think that's... Because I've
1042
00:44:41.269 --> 00:44:44.809
been in shows before where the director's told someone, look,
1043
00:44:44.829 --> 00:44:46.469
we're not going to go in that direction, we're going
1044
00:44:46.489 --> 00:44:49.710
to go here, and they've completely lost the plot. Like, it's, like, ridiculous. Like,
1045
00:44:49.750 --> 00:44:50.630
I'm like, oh, my God.
1046
00:44:50.750 --> 00:44:51.070
Yeah.
1047
00:44:52.110 --> 00:44:52.369
Yeah.
1048
00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:55.860
I mean, I think it's, like, you're setting that expectation
1049
00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:58.900
early in terms of how I see it. So I
1050
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:01.159
might go, Josh, I see this like this, and then
1051
00:45:01.199 --> 00:45:05.159
I'll let you play. But, like, I won't let Josh do...
1052
00:45:06.230 --> 00:45:08.690
show me what he thinks. And then after two rehearsals,
1053
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:12.320
go and tell, I'll give him, I'll make little tweaks,
1054
00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:14.639
but I'll say, I'll let him keep going with it
1055
00:45:14.659 --> 00:45:17.489
for a while. And until, because usually what I find
1056
00:45:17.659 --> 00:45:18.980
is particularly with good actors.
1057
00:45:19.340 --> 00:45:20.650
They know when they're not hitting it.
1058
00:45:20.820 --> 00:45:24.260
They will go, they'll sense themselves, this is not quite right.
1059
00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:26.739
And they'll start adjusting. And quite often what they'll adjust
1060
00:45:26.780 --> 00:45:29.300
to is even better than what I was necessarily thinking
1061
00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:30.119
they could go.
1062
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:31.909
I mean, I remember putting a director's side going, look,
1063
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:33.849
I know I'm not hitting this. Like, I know I'm
1064
00:45:33.869 --> 00:45:36.090
not getting it. I'm either not picking up what you're
1065
00:45:36.110 --> 00:45:39.670
putting down or something, but I know I'm not getting it. Like,
1066
00:45:39.710 --> 00:45:41.230
so what am I doing wrong? Like, what do you
1067
00:45:41.289 --> 00:45:44.570
actually want to see? Because I know I'm not. You don't.
1068
00:45:45.769 --> 00:45:48.969
Want a line read from a director, though. I really
1069
00:45:49.010 --> 00:45:50.989
don't like it when the director says, I want you
1070
00:45:51.030 --> 00:45:54.380
to say it like this. I think with comedy that helps, though, sometimes.
1071
00:45:54.519 --> 00:45:55.239
Sometimes.
1072
00:45:55.559 --> 00:45:57.139
But comedy is about timing.
1073
00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:02.679
There are occasions where I feel the need that I'll
1074
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:04.739
just say, this is how I think it should go.
1075
00:46:05.219 --> 00:46:07.820
But you're right, I hate line reads. And so I
1076
00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:10.559
think one of the ways I've learned to direct is
1077
00:46:10.900 --> 00:46:15.760
not necessarily– doing things that i liked other directors that
1078
00:46:16.820 --> 00:46:19.699
that the way they directed me but knowing what i
1079
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:21.880
didn't like and one of the things i hated was
1080
00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:24.420
when they would tell you every line and how i
1081
00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:26.579
just couldn't do it so i so i'm very careful
1082
00:46:26.619 --> 00:46:28.400
and i know actors hate that and i'm very careful
1083
00:46:28.460 --> 00:46:30.480
there are times again where it's it might be a
1084
00:46:30.539 --> 00:46:34.059
specific punchline or or yeah they don't miss i see what.
1085
00:46:33.980 --> 00:46:36.000
Your point is with comedy you kind of you do
1086
00:46:36.019 --> 00:46:38.449
need to try and reach the Yeah, the punchline.
1087
00:46:38.469 --> 00:46:41.010
Yeah, or it's very important that they might not have
1088
00:46:41.210 --> 00:46:43.670
read it the same way that it, you know, in
1089
00:46:43.710 --> 00:46:45.829
order to get the gist of it or the way
1090
00:46:45.849 --> 00:46:47.730
it's supposed to be, they need to say it like this.
1091
00:46:47.989 --> 00:46:49.130
So there are times where I will do that, but
1092
00:46:49.150 --> 00:46:51.190
generally speaking, no. Yeah.
1093
00:46:51.329 --> 00:46:53.210
I mean, I remember you turning around to me in
1094
00:46:53.329 --> 00:46:56.469
One Man, Two Governors and going, you're talking about the
1095
00:46:56.489 --> 00:46:57.829
Japanese bombing.
1096
00:46:58.250 --> 00:46:58.750
You know what I mean?
1097
00:46:58.829 --> 00:47:00.530
I'm like, oh, shit, I've got the gag now.
1098
00:47:00.670 --> 00:47:01.230
Okay, great.
1099
00:47:01.269 --> 00:47:02.849
Do you know what I mean? I don't say, you know.
1100
00:47:02.869 --> 00:47:03.730
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1101
00:47:03.929 --> 00:47:05.329
I was like, I.
1102
00:47:05.010 --> 00:47:08.099
Could just tell you were saying something like, If you
1103
00:47:08.119 --> 00:47:09.159
don't know what you mean, but, you.
1104
00:47:09.139 --> 00:47:09.719
Know, context.
1105
00:47:09.780 --> 00:47:10.400
That's right.
1106
00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:11.739
Absolutely. Context is a big thing.
1107
00:47:11.780 --> 00:47:12.099
Batman.
1108
00:47:14.539 --> 00:47:16.559
And that happens all the time. But, you know, funnily enough,
1109
00:47:16.699 --> 00:47:18.659
it's not always the direct. Just because I've read it
1110
00:47:19.059 --> 00:47:21.639
five times before you did, there are so many times
1111
00:47:21.699 --> 00:47:24.380
where an actor will be reading something in a certain
1112
00:47:24.420 --> 00:47:26.519
way and I'm like, are you doing it like that?
1113
00:47:26.820 --> 00:47:29.920
And then I didn't get the context. I didn't get
1114
00:47:29.960 --> 00:47:31.610
it right. Do you watch shows on OP9 and go, oh,
1115
00:47:32.219 --> 00:47:33.599
That's what it means. That's probably a bit late.
1116
00:47:33.860 --> 00:47:35.179
Yeah, yeah, probably, yeah.
1117
00:47:35.219 --> 00:47:35.900
But there are certainly times.
1118
00:47:35.940 --> 00:47:38.110
There's plenty of actors that go, that's what that meant.
1119
00:47:38.389 --> 00:47:41.570
There are certainly times where, you know, halfway through the rehearsal,
1120
00:47:41.630 --> 00:47:43.769
they've gone, no, this is, I'm saying it's because of this.
1121
00:47:43.849 --> 00:47:47.150
And I go, oh, I didn't quite understand that. In fact,
1122
00:47:47.170 --> 00:47:48.570
it happens in every show that I do.
1123
00:47:48.610 --> 00:47:51.730
Well, you forget, like you're so embedded in, doing your
1124
00:47:51.789 --> 00:47:53.130
Act 2 rehearsal that you.
1125
00:47:53.550 --> 00:47:55.809
Kind of forgot what happened in Act 1 a little bit.
1126
00:47:55.989 --> 00:47:57.610
No, because I'm referring back to what this.
1127
00:47:57.809 --> 00:47:57.989
Yeah.
1128
00:47:58.210 --> 00:48:00.690
Because, you know, the actor will know their character and
1129
00:48:00.730 --> 00:48:03.230
you've got, like, 15 other people to do it.
1130
00:48:03.340 --> 00:48:05.539
Yeah, that's the whole thing. And, you know, I think
1131
00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:07.099
the key to it all is not being too, as
1132
00:48:07.139 --> 00:48:09.500
a director, is not being too precious in that the
1133
00:48:09.539 --> 00:48:13.900
actors just explain this to you like it's, ah, right,
1134
00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:14.559
a bit stupid.
1135
00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:17.659
I think if everyone's polite and cordial with it, just,
1136
00:48:18.010 --> 00:48:19.900
you know... if you can just say, no, this is
1137
00:48:20.059 --> 00:48:21.639
actually how I thought this was going.
1138
00:48:21.539 --> 00:48:23.460
To play out. What do you think you do that
1139
00:48:23.539 --> 00:48:27.030
gets those, the trust of the actor? Cause clearly you do,
1140
00:48:27.090 --> 00:48:29.239
because you work with very good people that do really
1141
00:48:29.289 --> 00:48:31.989
great work. So what do you think it is? Is
1142
00:48:32.050 --> 00:48:33.829
it the fact that you produce good work and they
1143
00:48:33.869 --> 00:48:35.769
know that they're going to be in a good show
1144
00:48:35.789 --> 00:48:37.650
or is it, you know what I mean?
1145
00:48:37.690 --> 00:48:39.449
Like in that process? I think there's a few things.
1146
00:48:39.510 --> 00:48:43.150
I think, I think that, um, um, reputation obviously has
1147
00:48:43.170 --> 00:48:44.510
something to do with it in terms of the work
1148
00:48:44.530 --> 00:48:47.409
that you're producing. Yes. But also the, the reputation of
1149
00:48:47.469 --> 00:48:52.019
how I work with actors. Um, again, I'm genuinely collaborative.
1150
00:48:52.420 --> 00:48:56.590
And you're also an actor. And I think I'm an
1151
00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:58.849
actor's director and I've been told that I'm an actor's director.
1152
00:48:59.610 --> 00:49:01.269
What does that mean? I don't know. But I think,
1153
00:49:01.289 --> 00:49:03.289
I don't know specifically. It just means that you've been
1154
00:49:03.329 --> 00:49:05.090
on both sides of the fence. Well, I don't know specifically,
1155
00:49:05.130 --> 00:49:08.889
but I think certainly that my acting experience and, again,
1156
00:49:08.989 --> 00:49:11.929
knowing what I don't like in terms of how I
1157
00:49:12.539 --> 00:49:15.630
being directed is important. But look, I think, I think,
1158
00:49:15.650 --> 00:49:19.190
you know, being, I don't ever, someone might correct me
1159
00:49:19.210 --> 00:49:21.199
if I'm wrong, but I don't ever. lose my shit.
1160
00:49:21.940 --> 00:49:24.960
I'm always, you know, like calm, even though I might
1161
00:49:24.980 --> 00:49:27.820
not be calm on the inside. I think I treat everyone,
1162
00:49:27.860 --> 00:49:31.190
all my actors with respect. I, you know, I give
1163
00:49:31.210 --> 00:49:34.929
them an opportunity to play, a proper opportunity to play.
1164
00:49:35.590 --> 00:49:38.690
I care about what they think. I, you know, talk
1165
00:49:38.710 --> 00:49:42.369
to them, respectfully and and you know in a way
1166
00:49:42.449 --> 00:49:45.530
that they feel comfortable and and in taking the feedback
1167
00:49:45.949 --> 00:49:48.409
so i think it's those things and and i mean
1168
00:49:48.429 --> 00:49:51.769
that's just i guess how i am when.
1169
00:49:50.769 --> 00:49:53.489
Do you know when you're watching that rehearsal period and
1170
00:49:53.530 --> 00:49:56.280
it's getting close to the end and you go oh.
1171
00:49:56.800 --> 00:49:58.940
Shit i think we've got it yeah there's always a
1172
00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:01.500
point that must feel good there's always a point and
1173
00:50:01.619 --> 00:50:06.130
i've i've never not had that And I've never been wrong.
1174
00:50:08.849 --> 00:50:10.750
I've never not had that feeling at some point. Sometimes
1175
00:50:10.809 --> 00:50:14.849
it comes much later. Sometimes it comes in the read-through. Honestly,
1176
00:50:14.949 --> 00:50:17.880
I'm like, I know that with what I just heard
1177
00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:20.880
and with who I've got, that this is a winner.
1178
00:50:21.539 --> 00:50:23.539
And sometimes I feel like calling it out to the
1179
00:50:23.860 --> 00:50:27.119
group early, like, this is going to be good. Don't
1180
00:50:27.159 --> 00:50:28.639
let them pick to it.
1181
00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:29.380
No, no.
1182
00:50:30.179 --> 00:50:32.840
But there was always a point. And like I said,
1183
00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:36.269
sometimes it comes... late and you're like oh god i
1184
00:50:36.289 --> 00:50:38.570
wish that came a little bit earlier but you know
1185
00:50:38.610 --> 00:50:41.969
when it's there yes um quite often it's you're right
1186
00:50:41.989 --> 00:50:43.510
you don't want them to peak too early um and
1187
00:50:43.530 --> 00:50:46.429
i think i'm look i i don't know that i
1188
00:50:47.210 --> 00:50:51.190
do this intentionally but i've seemed to time when my
1189
00:50:51.250 --> 00:50:54.599
actors peak quite perfectly all the time like i like
1190
00:50:55.219 --> 00:50:58.500
um and again with the experience of of directing you
1191
00:50:58.519 --> 00:51:00.400
know the amount of shows i've directed i think i've
1192
00:51:01.610 --> 00:51:04.130
come to trust the process more. And I know that
1193
00:51:04.349 --> 00:51:06.510
even though we might be a week out of production
1194
00:51:06.550 --> 00:51:10.510
week and Josh still doesn't know his lines perfectly. He's
1195
00:51:10.530 --> 00:51:13.360
going to get that. I'm not worried. Every show.
1196
00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:15.699
I'm not worried at all. And I'll tell my actor.
1197
00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:18.280
There's some monologues in Hangman that I was like, how
1198
00:51:18.300 --> 00:51:19.880
the fuck am I going to get through this?
1199
00:51:20.559 --> 00:51:22.219
My actor might come to me and say, I'm really
1200
00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:24.840
worried about getting this down. And I say to them,
1201
00:51:25.179 --> 00:51:29.219
genuinely not. I'm not worried at all. And if I
1202
00:51:29.260 --> 00:51:30.739
was worried, I would have addressed it a little bit
1203
00:51:30.820 --> 00:51:32.440
earlier so that we can get through it.
1204
00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:35.159
I remember with Angels, like, just doing the Hebrew I
1205
00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:37.380
had to do, and I was just packing it. And
1206
00:51:37.420 --> 00:51:39.639
Hayley was like, it's fine, it's fine.
1207
00:51:40.429 --> 00:51:43.050
But, you know, I guess it just turns out, doesn't it?
1208
00:51:43.630 --> 00:51:47.190
It might be a bit simple, but honestly, when you
1209
00:51:47.230 --> 00:51:51.070
work with good professional actors, which I only work with,
1210
00:51:51.159 --> 00:51:56.079
I feel, you know that even if things aren't looking great,
1211
00:51:56.389 --> 00:51:58.889
with a week to go, you know, that it comes together.
1212
00:51:58.989 --> 00:52:02.989
You know, that I trust that it will happen. And,
1213
00:52:03.170 --> 00:52:05.469
and yeah, I've met, you know, like I said, I've
1214
00:52:05.510 --> 00:52:07.239
never been wrong with that.
1215
00:52:07.340 --> 00:52:11.460
Like it's like, so with the production though, crew, is
1216
00:52:11.500 --> 00:52:14.679
that different process for you? Are you very prescriptive about
1217
00:52:14.780 --> 00:52:17.099
what you want to see and what you want it
1218
00:52:17.139 --> 00:52:19.679
to look like? Are you, as far as sets and
1219
00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:21.280
props and costumes and.
1220
00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:24.840
Well, I tend to do my own sets. Um, so that's,
1221
00:52:25.590 --> 00:52:26.250
And when I say that, I mean.
1222
00:52:26.269 --> 00:52:27.570
Well, that takes that out of the info.
1223
00:52:27.590 --> 00:52:31.190
Yeah. But in saying that, like, you know, I know
1224
00:52:31.250 --> 00:52:33.389
what I want, how I want it to look, and
1225
00:52:33.409 --> 00:52:37.150
I'll design it myself. As you guys and most people know,
1226
00:52:37.190 --> 00:52:41.050
Heather Jones is, as I call her, my right-hand man. Yes.
1227
00:52:41.110 --> 00:52:46.920
She's been my stage manager on every single show bar one.
1228
00:52:47.119 --> 00:52:50.199
And she's so good. And she is so good. So
1229
00:52:50.239 --> 00:52:52.940
to answer your question, first of all, we've got a
1230
00:52:52.980 --> 00:52:54.820
great working relationship. She knows what I want. I know
1231
00:52:54.840 --> 00:52:56.409
what she wants. she knows the things that I care
1232
00:52:56.449 --> 00:52:58.989
about and she knows the things that I don't care about. Right. So,
1233
00:52:59.030 --> 00:53:01.480
and when I say don't care, I know what you mean. Yeah.
1234
00:53:01.659 --> 00:53:03.380
I can delegate that. I don't need to, she's like,
1235
00:53:03.420 --> 00:53:05.119
I've got this sorted. And so Heather is not just
1236
00:53:05.139 --> 00:53:08.539
my stage manager. She's my more often than not, you know,
1237
00:53:09.019 --> 00:53:13.199
props person, costumes. I mean, she might get Vicky to
1238
00:53:13.239 --> 00:53:14.769
do the costumes or something like that, but you know,
1239
00:53:15.070 --> 00:53:18.650
she's always involved in all of that backstage stuff. So
1240
00:53:20.170 --> 00:53:22.710
I guess, and she's, I don't work with big crews.
1241
00:53:22.730 --> 00:53:24.969
Like I don't have, I mean, that's probably the shows
1242
00:53:24.989 --> 00:53:27.780
that I do, but you know, Heather might employ a
1243
00:53:27.800 --> 00:53:29.860
couple of crew members, you know, just to sort of
1244
00:53:29.900 --> 00:53:33.840
help backstage or whatever, but generally it's Heather. So to
1245
00:53:33.940 --> 00:53:36.860
answer your question, I don't think that I need to
1246
00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:40.159
be that prescriptive. Like Heather knows what I need, what
1247
00:53:41.179 --> 00:53:43.059
I need, what she needs to ask me to be
1248
00:53:43.119 --> 00:53:47.210
specific about and what she doesn't. And for me again,
1249
00:53:47.289 --> 00:53:50.269
rightly or wrongly, my focus is always on performance. Like
1250
00:53:50.309 --> 00:53:52.989
that's what I care the most about the other stuff.
1251
00:53:53.670 --> 00:53:56.489
is sort of extra on top and i know and
1252
00:53:56.510 --> 00:53:57.070
i know that.
1253
00:53:57.050 --> 00:53:58.969
Heather will just get it done you've got other people
1254
00:53:59.010 --> 00:54:01.940
that will be proud of their work in those areas.
1255
00:54:01.760 --> 00:54:04.159
Yeah yeah absolutely yeah so with someone like vicky you
1256
00:54:04.179 --> 00:54:06.440
know i'll often have a you know a good conversation
1257
00:54:06.460 --> 00:54:09.460
with her about what i what i my idea is
1258
00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:11.760
and what i want but then it's it's a general
1259
00:54:11.800 --> 00:54:14.019
idea and i basically say see you later go and
1260
00:54:14.059 --> 00:54:15.860
she just goes and does her thing and then she'll
1261
00:54:15.889 --> 00:54:17.090
come back and she'll go do you like this do
1262
00:54:17.130 --> 00:54:22.320
you not 95 8% of the time, it's fine. There
1263
00:54:22.340 --> 00:54:24.059
might be some times where I go, that doesn't quite
1264
00:54:24.179 --> 00:54:25.340
match what I'm sort of wanting.
1265
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:26.440
That's very rare.
1266
00:54:27.260 --> 00:54:28.969
So I guess it's that old thing of you work
1267
00:54:28.989 --> 00:54:29.670
with good people.
1268
00:54:31.969 --> 00:54:34.369
It's easy. You just get the job done. And then being...
1269
00:54:35.269 --> 00:54:39.150
appointed as the director of residence at Holden Street, is
1270
00:54:39.170 --> 00:54:42.590
that a freeing thing or is that like a... Because
1271
00:54:42.730 --> 00:54:45.230
does that mean that you're just directing all the shows
1272
00:54:45.329 --> 00:54:50.409
that somebody else chooses or you're part of that process? No, no.
1273
00:54:50.429 --> 00:54:52.769
So I'm 2026, so three years I've committed to 2026
1274
00:54:52.769 --> 00:54:58.210
to 2028. No, I still choose all my own shows.
1275
00:54:58.670 --> 00:55:00.969
Martha Lott is the artistic director, so I will.
1276
00:55:02.599 --> 00:55:04.820
We'll do that in collaboration. Like I'll say, this is
1277
00:55:04.840 --> 00:55:05.639
what I want to do.
1278
00:55:05.659 --> 00:55:06.400
Yeah.
1279
00:55:06.500 --> 00:55:08.019
And, you know, she'll have a read and she'll, you know,
1280
00:55:08.039 --> 00:55:11.199
have an opinion and we'll make that decision together. But no,
1281
00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:14.300
it's still, look, I realised a long time ago that
1282
00:55:15.320 --> 00:55:18.920
I only can direct things that I love.
1283
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:22.519
Well, I think it's like doing a show. Most directors
1284
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:23.280
would be like that.
1285
00:55:23.340 --> 00:55:25.500
Like I've, I've talked to a lot of directors about,
1286
00:55:25.539 --> 00:55:27.960
you know, when someone offers them a script to read
1287
00:55:28.260 --> 00:55:31.389
and sometimes they just can't because someone's coming to them.
1288
00:55:31.619 --> 00:55:35.329
Yeah. Do you find it's more organic if you've found
1289
00:55:35.349 --> 00:55:35.889
the script yourself?
1290
00:55:35.969 --> 00:55:36.469
Absolutely.
1291
00:55:36.570 --> 00:55:37.829
The passion's already there.
1292
00:55:37.849 --> 00:55:42.670
Because if someone's giving you, it's a different energy, isn't it?
1293
00:55:42.690 --> 00:55:44.929
And if someone gives that to me, I'll genuinely have
1294
00:55:44.969 --> 00:55:46.710
a good read and see if I like it. And
1295
00:55:46.789 --> 00:55:49.190
they might be right. They might not. But like I said,
1296
00:55:49.210 --> 00:55:51.130
I've always got a bucket list of plays. And so
1297
00:55:51.150 --> 00:55:54.469
it's in every play I've ever directed, with the exception
1298
00:55:54.530 --> 00:55:57.550
of the Fringe show that I directed for Holden Street
1299
00:55:57.590 --> 00:55:58.510
that Martha wrote this year.
1300
00:55:59.190 --> 00:55:59.489
And....
1301
00:56:01.190 --> 00:56:03.949
Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime, which they
1302
00:56:04.289 --> 00:56:07.769
came to me and said, would you direct this? I've
1303
00:56:07.889 --> 00:56:14.579
picked and presented it to the company every other play. So, yeah,
1304
00:56:14.619 --> 00:56:16.719
so that for me is a big thing. That's a
1305
00:56:16.739 --> 00:56:21.659
big part of what I do is doing something that
1306
00:56:21.699 --> 00:56:23.630
I love. If I don't have the passion for it,
1307
00:56:24.429 --> 00:56:26.690
it's just work. And it's like, why am I doing it?
1308
00:56:26.710 --> 00:56:28.670
Because as we all know, it can make a lot more.
1309
00:56:29.130 --> 00:56:32.369
money and and you know the time that you put into.
1310
00:56:32.050 --> 00:56:34.590
It i have to say it's over every single part
1311
00:56:34.610 --> 00:56:36.869
of your production that you see the passion the drive
1312
00:56:36.909 --> 00:56:39.969
the care factor yeah it's it's it's phenomenal and i
1313
00:56:40.010 --> 00:56:43.420
think it's and then i think it's evident that it
1314
00:56:43.469 --> 00:56:45.860
is also inspired in the rest of your team because
1315
00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:50.519
they're such highly skilled high achievers i mean it the
1316
00:56:50.539 --> 00:56:54.280
shows that you do are brave and different and they're
1317
00:56:54.300 --> 00:56:56.460
not the same and i think There's not a lot
1318
00:56:56.500 --> 00:56:57.920
of people. There was no one out there doing the
1319
00:56:57.960 --> 00:56:59.320
shows that you were doing, right? And I think you
1320
00:56:59.340 --> 00:57:02.059
have a very different lens to a lot of the
1321
00:57:02.119 --> 00:57:04.900
other directors in Adelaide, and I think it's so refreshing
1322
00:57:04.940 --> 00:57:06.800
seeing the stuff that you do, and I think we
1323
00:57:06.840 --> 00:57:11.789
need more people like you doing this edgier stuff and
1324
00:57:12.050 --> 00:57:14.489
stuff that, again, it's just a very different lens, and
1325
00:57:14.510 --> 00:57:16.409
I think it's really refreshing, and I think the work
1326
00:57:16.429 --> 00:57:18.750
that you do is phenomenal. It was very good. Thank you.
1327
00:57:18.769 --> 00:57:19.650
I appreciate that.
1328
00:57:19.670 --> 00:57:23.010
So to unpack why you choose the plays that you do.
1329
00:57:23.710 --> 00:57:27.630
We might get to know you a little bit more specifically.
1330
00:57:27.650 --> 00:57:29.940
I've got all these questions off the lock yet.
1331
00:57:29.949 --> 00:57:31.210
Sorry, we've reached our hour.
1332
00:57:31.230 --> 00:57:36.610
It's amazing how quickly it goes. So the PIVO questionnaire.
1333
00:57:36.630 --> 00:57:39.199
Have you heard of, you must have heard of this before.
1334
00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:44.159
Yeah, I used to watch Inside the Actors. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1335
00:57:44.539 --> 00:57:49.230
What is your favourite word, Nick Fagan? Cathartic.
1336
00:57:49.469 --> 00:57:50.210
Cathartic.
1337
00:57:50.329 --> 00:57:51.510
Oh, that's a great word.
1338
00:57:51.710 --> 00:57:53.869
I really love... I love the way it sounds. Yeah.
1339
00:57:53.929 --> 00:57:55.570
But I also love what it means and I love.
1340
00:57:55.590 --> 00:57:59.340
Because it also sounds cathartic to say cathartic. Absolutely. Yeah,
1341
00:57:59.400 --> 00:57:59.880
it does.
1342
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:07.400
It does. What is your least favourite word? Terminal. Oh. Oh,
1343
00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:10.289
I don't like that. I mean, that's how we're all
1344
00:58:10.309 --> 00:58:13.190
going to go, right? But still. Yeah.
1345
00:58:13.349 --> 00:58:15.789
At a bus station.
1346
00:58:16.730 --> 00:58:16.809
Um.
1347
00:58:18.869 --> 00:58:22.820
Sorry. What turns you on creatively, spiritually or emotionally?
1348
00:58:24.010 --> 00:58:24.389
Talent.
1349
00:58:26.900 --> 00:58:30.960
And look, I think everyone that, I think there's a
1350
00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:34.619
lot of talented people, but I'm talking about that, that
1351
00:58:34.780 --> 00:58:39.659
crazy talent. That's like that one-off talent that you just,
1352
00:58:40.360 --> 00:58:43.239
the people that just have something that you can't take
1353
00:58:43.260 --> 00:58:44.760
your eyes off and you just know.
1354
00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:48.809
That's, That kind of stage presence thing, you can't keep looking.
1355
00:58:49.130 --> 00:58:49.969
It's just... Yeah.
1356
00:58:50.170 --> 00:58:52.239
Do you think you can be talented and not passionate
1357
00:58:52.260 --> 00:58:52.840
about what you're doing?
1358
00:58:53.159 --> 00:58:53.619
Absolutely.
1359
00:58:53.739 --> 00:58:53.920
Yeah.
1360
00:58:54.219 --> 00:58:57.880
But I think, obviously, the more passionate you are, the
1361
00:58:58.079 --> 00:58:58.719
better you'll be.
1362
00:58:58.760 --> 00:59:01.400
The more energy you're putting into it.
1363
00:59:01.739 --> 00:59:05.989
What turns you off? Influences.
1364
00:59:08.670 --> 00:59:09.210
Fair enough.
1365
00:59:09.269 --> 00:59:09.960
They're taking you off.
1366
00:59:10.050 --> 00:59:10.230
The world.
1367
00:59:10.269 --> 00:59:10.650
I get that.
1368
00:59:11.809 --> 00:59:15.909
Are they? No, they are. No, no, no. Their time
1369
00:59:15.929 --> 00:59:16.269
will come.
1370
00:59:17.389 --> 00:59:22.590
What is your favourite curse word? There's just so many
1371
00:59:23.090 --> 00:59:27.219
good ones that I love, but I'd have to say motherfucker.
1372
00:59:27.519 --> 00:59:27.780
Yeah.
1373
00:59:27.880 --> 00:59:31.550
That's a good one. Yeah. I think that's your Quentin Tarantino.
1374
00:59:31.570 --> 00:59:33.670
It is. It's not something I probably use a lot
1375
00:59:33.690 --> 00:59:36.150
because it's not really in our vernacular, I guess. But,
1376
00:59:36.489 --> 00:59:39.940
you know, what I love about it is that you
1377
00:59:39.960 --> 00:59:43.480
can be using it to describe someone that you really dislike,
1378
00:59:43.539 --> 00:59:46.260
that motherfucker, or it can be those motherfuckers over there,
1379
00:59:46.360 --> 00:59:48.159
you know, like it can just be a general. Just
1380
00:59:48.219 --> 00:59:49.860
a general like cry.
1381
00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:51.079
Motherfucker.
1382
00:59:51.119 --> 00:59:54.389
Yes, exactly. What sound or noise do you hate?
1383
00:59:54.949 --> 00:59:55.210
Hang on.
1384
00:59:55.550 --> 00:59:57.449
We got there? No, not yet. Sorry. What sound or
1385
00:59:57.489 --> 00:59:59.989
noise do you love? I love the sound, and you
1386
01:00:00.030 --> 01:00:02.730
don't get to hear it much anymore, is a full
1387
01:00:03.389 --> 01:00:08.469
cinema collectively laughing at the screen. Yes. These days when
1388
01:00:08.489 --> 01:00:10.010
I go to the cinema, I'm lucky if there's five
1389
01:00:10.030 --> 01:00:12.789
other people in there. Isn't that crazy? I mean, for me,
1390
01:00:12.869 --> 01:00:16.750
it's one of the most heartbreaking things about the way
1391
01:00:16.809 --> 01:00:21.130
this world's gone. But I remember the days of going
1392
01:00:21.170 --> 01:00:24.070
to a full theatre and having the whole crowd laughing
1393
01:00:24.090 --> 01:00:26.300
at the screen. Yes. So loud that you can't even
1394
01:00:26.360 --> 01:00:27.119
hear what's happening next.
1395
01:00:27.159 --> 01:00:29.960
And the popcorn tastes better. What was it like taking
1396
01:00:30.559 --> 01:00:32.579
your girls to the cinema for the first time? Because
1397
01:00:32.659 --> 01:00:35.139
I still remember the first cinema experience I had. We
1398
01:00:35.159 --> 01:00:36.760
still go a lot. And they're very.
1399
01:00:36.639 --> 01:00:39.239
Much like me in terms of their love for film.
1400
01:00:39.280 --> 01:00:41.710
That's because I've sort of pushed it on them. But
1401
01:00:41.730 --> 01:00:43.329
so we go to the cinema a lot and they
1402
01:00:43.369 --> 01:00:47.150
love it. They understand the experience is so much better
1403
01:00:47.889 --> 01:00:51.369
than watching it at home. Yes. And different.
1404
01:00:51.989 --> 01:00:53.650
So what sound or noise do you hate?
1405
01:00:59.989 --> 01:01:01.210
Uncomfortable silence.
1406
01:01:03.869 --> 01:01:04.349
Very good.
1407
01:01:04.670 --> 01:01:07.070
No, you know, but you know, when you are having
1408
01:01:07.090 --> 01:01:09.159
a conversation with someone that you may not know that
1409
01:01:09.199 --> 01:01:15.840
well and you just sort of like, yeah. I genuinely
1410
01:01:15.860 --> 01:01:16.159
hate that.
1411
01:01:16.420 --> 01:01:18.679
I just call it. That's how awkward I am. I
1412
01:01:18.699 --> 01:01:20.679
didn't turn it into this weird thing. Well, this is awkward.
1413
01:01:20.719 --> 01:01:23.190
Like, you know, like I'll just vitalize it. Like it's, yeah.
1414
01:01:23.989 --> 01:01:26.809
Just walk away. I know. Cause you're on the spectrum.
1415
01:01:26.829 --> 01:01:27.769
You're like, I'm out.
1416
01:01:29.570 --> 01:01:32.239
What profession other than your own would you like to attempt?
1417
01:01:32.780 --> 01:01:36.860
You know, I'm not a handyman at all. However, I
1418
01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:38.880
would love to be one of those house flippers, you know,
1419
01:01:38.900 --> 01:01:41.320
the ones that buy houses and then fix them up
1420
01:01:41.340 --> 01:01:42.760
and then sell them at a profit. I think that's
1421
01:01:42.780 --> 01:01:47.320
a really cool job. Really? Yeah. You're renovating at the moment.
1422
01:01:47.400 --> 01:01:50.460
I'm going to paint all day tomorrow. Yeah, I know. But,
1423
01:01:50.480 --> 01:01:52.780
you know, if that is your job, you know, and
1424
01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:54.059
there's going to be an outcome at the end in
1425
01:01:54.119 --> 01:01:55.139
terms of monitoring.
1426
01:01:55.159 --> 01:01:55.360
Yes.
1427
01:01:55.780 --> 01:01:56.960
I think it would be cool.
1428
01:01:57.659 --> 01:01:58.760
Or embossed or that sort of thing.
1429
01:01:58.780 --> 01:01:59.639
Yeah, it looks good.
1430
01:01:59.909 --> 01:02:00.610
Yeah. I don't know.
1431
01:02:00.630 --> 01:02:03.329
I watched too many grand designs where I'm like, this
1432
01:02:03.349 --> 01:02:04.690
would be a fucking nightmare.
1433
01:02:06.630 --> 01:02:09.800
What profession would you not like to do? Well, on that.
1434
01:02:10.670 --> 01:02:13.250
I watched a lot of cooking shows in terms of
1435
01:02:13.269 --> 01:02:15.010
like you're going around and I would hate to be
1436
01:02:15.030 --> 01:02:15.429
a chef.
1437
01:02:15.829 --> 01:02:18.230
Oh my God. In one of those high pressure environments.
1438
01:02:18.250 --> 01:02:21.559
No way. Yeah. I work with a lot of chefs
1439
01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:25.179
in my job and they are a very different breed.
1440
01:02:25.239 --> 01:02:27.860
And I think it is because they are in high
1441
01:02:28.300 --> 01:02:35.119
intensity environments for 12, 15 hours a day. And I just, yeah.
1442
01:02:35.179 --> 01:02:38.420
And a lot of them just don't like food. It's
1443
01:02:38.440 --> 01:02:39.079
been beaten down.
1444
01:02:39.360 --> 01:02:42.619
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, not that I know their salary,
1445
01:02:42.639 --> 01:02:46.590
but I don't think they're not always highly paid. And
1446
01:02:46.610 --> 01:02:50.030
I think for the environment, the high-pressure, stressful environment, I
1447
01:02:50.050 --> 01:02:50.789
don't know, it's not for me.
1448
01:02:51.210 --> 01:02:54.110
I think the temperament has changed. So before it was
1449
01:02:54.150 --> 01:02:56.690
like this, I'm old school. And, yeah, it was like
1450
01:02:56.750 --> 01:02:58.909
being in the army, right? That's kind of what they
1451
01:02:58.969 --> 01:02:59.670
used to be like.
1452
01:02:59.710 --> 01:03:00.369
And I think now.
1453
01:03:01.190 --> 01:03:04.570
If you've got that calm, passionate nature about people and
1454
01:03:04.610 --> 01:03:07.300
about food, you can command so much money.
1455
01:03:07.860 --> 01:03:08.619
You've just got to.
1456
01:03:08.780 --> 01:03:09.420
But it's now.
1457
01:03:09.760 --> 01:03:11.719
Because before... But you've got to market yourself now.
1458
01:03:12.239 --> 01:03:15.239
Well, I think before, like hospitality, I guess, in general,
1459
01:03:15.340 --> 01:03:18.710
is very... work driven right like it's very physically driven
1460
01:03:18.809 --> 01:03:20.809
so i think a lot of people that weren't good
1461
01:03:20.849 --> 01:03:23.679
at school or weren't academic would go into these roles
1462
01:03:23.719 --> 01:03:25.699
and i think a lot of chefs did right so
1463
01:03:25.719 --> 01:03:27.539
they're not good at the numbers and the figures and
1464
01:03:27.559 --> 01:03:29.739
the costings and stuff but yeah i don't know i
1465
01:03:29.760 --> 01:03:32.159
could go on about it forever but it's your interview
1466
01:03:32.219 --> 01:03:32.619
i agree.
1467
01:03:32.539 --> 01:03:34.639
With you i wouldn't want to do that no um
1468
01:03:35.099 --> 01:03:37.650
if heaven exists what would you like to hear god
1469
01:03:37.710 --> 01:03:40.449
say when you arrive at the pearly gates you're late
1470
01:03:41.719 --> 01:03:44.119
That's actually.
1471
01:03:43.880 --> 01:03:47.559
A really cool way of putting it, isn't it? Yeah,
1472
01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:50.760
if I can outlive my time, I'm happy.
1473
01:03:50.900 --> 01:03:51.400
I like that.
1474
01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:57.739
Very pithy. Very good. And the big one. Nick Fagan.
1475
01:03:58.380 --> 01:04:04.179
Why do you do this? You know, you guys podcast
1476
01:04:04.219 --> 01:04:06.820
is cool. Why do we do this, right? So you'd
1477
01:04:06.840 --> 01:04:09.900
think that's something that I'd be able to answer.
1478
01:04:10.659 --> 01:04:11.409
Or at least.
1479
01:04:12.769 --> 01:04:17.210
I can't tell you why I do this. It's something
1480
01:04:17.289 --> 01:04:20.250
in me that won't let me stop. But when I
1481
01:04:20.349 --> 01:04:23.210
ask myself, why do I do this? Why do I
1482
01:04:23.250 --> 01:04:26.780
put myself through the stress, the time away from family,
1483
01:04:26.820 --> 01:04:28.480
the hours.
1484
01:04:27.900 --> 01:04:28.519
I don't have?
1485
01:04:28.539 --> 01:04:32.079
I can't give you an answer. I can't tell you.
1486
01:04:32.099 --> 01:04:35.500
I think we're dissecting the frog, aren't we? We're killing
1487
01:04:35.539 --> 01:04:37.460
the frog by looking at it sometimes.
1488
01:04:37.480 --> 01:04:40.309
Yeah. I think, like I said, for me, There's something
1489
01:04:40.349 --> 01:04:44.989
inside me that won't let me stop, but I can't
1490
01:04:45.389 --> 01:04:47.820
put my finger on it. I can't tell you. I
1491
01:04:47.880 --> 01:04:52.360
think generally if I could label it for you, I.
1492
01:04:52.340 --> 01:04:55.360
Think it's generally just the crows are just, Never going
1493
01:04:55.380 --> 01:04:57.739
to win a game tomorrow again.
1494
01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:00.360
You don't know that. They came pretty close. Six.
1495
01:05:00.639 --> 01:05:03.199
That's not like, you know. I mean, I guess 15
1496
01:05:03.199 --> 01:05:05.630
wins and eight losses is not too bad. Yeah, well,
1497
01:05:05.690 --> 01:05:05.989
it's that.
1498
01:05:07.230 --> 01:05:07.730
So, well, wait.
1499
01:05:07.809 --> 01:05:09.630
You guys didn't actually believe that I knew that.
1500
01:05:09.809 --> 01:05:11.409
That I had to write that down.
1501
01:05:11.409 --> 01:05:17.030
15 losses. I actually did too. Oh, Nick, what a pleasure.
1502
01:05:17.210 --> 01:05:19.030
It's been so great chatting to you.
1503
01:05:19.090 --> 01:05:19.409
Likewise.
1504
01:05:19.449 --> 01:05:22.090
Thank you. It's been good fun. Yeah, thanks. Thank you, Nick.
1505
01:05:22.230 --> 01:05:24.159
Thank you once again to Stepney Studios.
1506
01:05:24.199 --> 01:05:25.469
Thank you, Lee. Thank you, Josh.
1507
01:05:25.800 --> 01:05:27.900
For organising all this.
1508
01:05:27.960 --> 01:05:32.619
And again, yeah, Stepney Studios have really helped us out.
1509
01:05:32.739 --> 01:05:35.710
So it's been really great. Thanks, Nick.
1510
01:05:35.769 --> 01:05:38.110
I hope that wasn't too painful, as I always say. No,
1511
01:05:38.110 --> 01:05:39.670
it was good fun. Thank you very much.
1512
01:05:39.710 --> 01:05:42.769
Yes. I was a bit intimidated with this mafia persona
1513
01:05:42.789 --> 01:05:43.550
you've got going on.
1514
01:05:43.590 --> 01:05:44.750
You know, like you've got like this.
1515
01:05:44.769 --> 01:05:50.320
The godfather of Adelaide amateur theatre. Yes.
1516
01:05:53.010 --> 01:05:53.489
I'll take it.
1517
01:05:53.639 --> 01:05:53.849
Good.
1518
01:05:53.889 --> 01:05:56.809
It's good. Thank you so much, Nick. Thanks, Josh.
1519
01:05:57.909 --> 01:06:00.449
And to all of you, I hope whatever project you're
1520
01:06:00.469 --> 01:06:01.610
working on goes well.
1521
01:06:02.409 --> 01:06:03.489
And chookers.
1522
01:06:03.969 --> 01:06:05.070
Break a leg. Chookers all.
1523
01:06:05.309 --> 01:06:05.869
See you guys soon.
1524
01:06:05.949 --> 01:06:06.250
Bye-bye.
1525
01:06:06.650 --> 01:06:06.789
Bye.