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00:00:20.000If you really want to be impactful, you've gotta know yourself incredibly deeply. If you stop thinking about vulnerability, care, empathy as negative or as not leadership traits, you will find yourself much more impactful because the more you bring those elements into your space, as you lead your
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00:00:25.000teams, you'll actually realise that you'll be a much stronger leader.
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00:00:38.000Authenticity and vulnerability is a big part of why I am as impactful as I am. If you describe yourself by your job, you might have a problem'cause if you lose the job, then who are you really?
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00:00:40.000My name is Saray Khumalo, a
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00:00:47.000businesswoman, a mother, and an award-winning mountaineer. I know what it feels like when the ground shakes beneath you.
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00:01:00.000Three times Mount Everest sent me back down through avalanche, earthquake and injury. Three times the world told me to quit. I kept going, and on the fourth attempt
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00:01:12.000I stood on the summit. Most would call the early attempts failure, but I learned something different. The shift is not the disruption. The shift is the lesson.
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00:01:20.000It's not the fall that defines you but the rise because true failure only happens when you stop taking the
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00:01:33.000next step. In When Shift Happens, we explore the moments that break us and how they build us. Take a breath. The air is thin up here and the views are worth it.
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00:01:38.000Welcome to the summit journey. Let's go higher.
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00:01:40.000Welcome to When Shift
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00:02:00.000Happens. The real shift isn't really about getting to the top. It's about what we build when we get to the top. And my guest today is none other than Khensani Nobanda, a brand marketing and corporate executive expert. With over 20 years experience working on Global brands as a Loeries
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00:02:15.000marketing, leadership and Innovations Awards winner among many other accolades, she's proven that true leadership is not just about results, but also about responsibility. Khensani, welcome really and thank you for making it through traffic this morning.
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00:02:20.000No, I mean like for you Saray. Absolute
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00:02:20.000pleasure.
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00:02:31.000Let's start with the fact that you've inspired in spaces where women traditionally are not given room to create impact worldly, right?
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00:02:40.000And yet you do so with grace. If one had to ask you in your own words, who is Khensani Nobanda, what would
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00:02:40.000you say?
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00:02:53.000Wow, that's a, that's a beautiful question actually, and quite reflective. Um, maybe to answer the question, Saray, I need to take a little bit of a step back and go back to 2010.
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00:02:58.000Because I think in many ways I was brought up to know who I am and to stand up for who I am.
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00:03:00.000I had a dad
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00:03:20.000who made it incredibly clear to me that no one can tell you who you can or cannot be, what you can or cannot be, and what you can or cannot say. And to be told that from a very young age, I think it's pretty special. Um, you, you grow up pretty clear about who you are. In 2010, um, I was working in Dubai at that time I was looking
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00:03:38.000after skin for Africa, middle East, and Turkey. And I had a boss who as I reflect back right now, I can give him grace because he had his own, I would say, aspirations and ambitions. And in trying to achieve those aspirations and ambitions, left a couple of dead bodies behind him.
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00:03:40.000And so no matter what I
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00:04:00.000tried to do, it was just never good enough, um, for him. And so in 2010, I was back in South Africa for just the World Cup. It was opening match and all of that. And I was speaking to my 19-year-old brother. And I was telling him how miserable I was at work and he said to me, well just resign, and I was like,
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00:04:04.000wena you are 19? How do you know about just resign? Like,
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00:04:05.000like, who cares?
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00:04:20.000Like, yeah, and my brother was like, why so dramatic? Just leave, you know, and stuff. And then, um. A month later, unfortunately, my brother was killed and it hit me incredibly hard. And so I remember reflecting on his, just
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00:04:21.000resigned like, why are you taking this?
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00:04:40.000You know? And then thinking about you can be in such a space that doesn't give you any energy, actually drains you and stuff, and then you die. Like that just made no sense to me. And so I decided to take a break from working, um, for about, so I did just resign and I didn't get, and I didn't have a
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00:04:41.000job, I had nothing.
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00:04:55.000But in that time, I sat back to articulate for myself what it meant to be Khensi in the world and whilst in, I'd always, like I said, I'd always been brought up to just authentically be me. I'd never quite probably articulated it exactly.
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00:04:56.000Yeah.
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00:05:00.000So I think the first thing is, um, Khensi is someone who, whether you
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00:05:05.000experience her at a corporate environment, personally with her family on a mountain,
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00:05:05.000yeah.
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00:05:20.000She is as authentic as you will ever find her, like, you'll never see me in a d. No one can say, oh, I thought she was shy. You. So I think, I mean very sort of authentic. I think the second bit for me is
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00:05:27.000very purpose led and that bit comes through, whether it's my career or just my personal sort of life and the purpose bit for me.
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00:05:40.000So part of taking that six month break was saying. I wanted to work in organizations that I could see had a real purpose around changing our continent, our country, like making a real impact and stuff.
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00:06:00.000And so even when I reflect on the work that we do sometimes at Nedbank, I feel incredibly privileged to be able to lead some of that or be part of it, but also for my own self, I didn't have a purpose actually, uh, until that moment and I was able to, um, and I mean we can chat about it later around how I got to that purpose, but my purpose, um, is to show the art of the
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00:06:20.000possible. Um, because I always say for a young black woman like me, to be where she is, is, is not by like accident but it's inspiring for a lot of people and I, a lot of people don't want to take the mental of being mentors or inspire people or, and I don't mind it because I understand that when I
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00:06:26.000was growing up, I had few black women that I could look up to and go, you know, I can make it if she made it and stuff.
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00:06:38.000So I understand the responsibility that I have. And so very purpose led and. Like, love to take that in, and I, I have no issues with it, I guess in many ways. So I'm the eldest.
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00:06:38.000Oh, wow.
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00:06:40.000Yeah,
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00:06:42.000I know, because I'm so cool. Everyone thinks that she must be the youngest, like
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00:06:44.000Yeah. I, I wouldn't have guessed.
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00:06:44.000Yeah.
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00:07:00.000It's like, honestly, I am the eldest, but also with my, with on my mom's side we are very close in my mom's family. In terms of the grandkids, I'm the second eldest, but generally Gary knows I'm the eldest. Does still so, so play a very big family role. Um, whilst, uh, so I'm married with
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00:07:20.000our dog, Samuel L. Jackson and we don't have kids. I've got lots of nephews and nieces, I'm very tight with my cousins and my. Aunts and stuff. So really strong family bond. We still have family in Tini and you know, we see them like very often and stuff, but also just like person who just loves life. I mean, I'm turning 50 in three
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00:07:22.000years and I'm on my 50 before 50 list.
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00:07:35.000I'm on number 20. And so for me it's about. I don't want to just exist. Um, so can see someone who really, when my body gets put into that coffin, it must be like, I'm done. I'm out. Peace. I wanna live life.
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00:07:40.000Yeah. As you say that, I'm thinking about you on the mountain, whether it's Mafa
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00:07:42.000or on Kilimanjaro going gang gag.
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00:08:00.000What? With the porters and stuff, and, and one thing that didn't come out in your narration right now is that you are very naughty. Because as I'm like, what is she doing? I'm like, yeah, but you love life and that's how we should live. I mean, I love it. Yeah. I love that
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00:08:11.000about you. Apart from all that, what shift has happened in your life until now that's made you realise or become the leader?
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00:08:20.000That you are, so this is beyond who you are, but how you lead other people, whether it's at work in your family or
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00:08:21.000community, or just generally.
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00:08:34.000Yeah, so I definitely think my brother's death was a massive shift, and whilst it led to me taking. Um, a sabbatical. It also led to a number of things. So, I mean, lemme start with the purpose bit.
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00:08:40.000So if you think about my background, so my dad is from Orlando and
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00:09:00.000comes from the apartheid born during apartheid and in everything he was never meant to be, to amount to anything, right? And he lived South Africa. At the age of 17 years old, my mom was born in a place called Fini in Switzerland. She's half Portuguese, half Swati, also, you know, born to a a Portuguese
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00:09:02.000man who would go to Switzerland.
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00:09:20.000So he would do business in Maputo and Bai, and he met my grandmother, who was a cleaner. In the hotel that he would stay at every time, you know, he would go, you know, do business there. And I fell in love with my grandmother and seven kids later. You know, my mom is number three there.
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00:09:30.000But even though my, my grandfather was a businessman, ultimately, if you look at, when I was born, I was actually like the first six months of my life living in a mad hu mad house with my grandmother.
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00:09:40.000'cause my mom then was finishing her degree. So she was, and she gave birth to me. My dad was out of the country'cause he joined the MK with the A NC.
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00:09:49.000So you know, got shipped to my grandmother. So if you think about that as a background, a dad coming from where he is, never meant to march to anything. A mom coming from quite a rural area.
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00:10:00.000I really am not meant to sit in an EXCO over bank. I am. And I think that's a big part of my purpose because I could
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00:10:11.000accept that Saray and be like, this is great for me, but I realise that actually it can inspire millions of others, in fact, even if it's one. But for me, it's like, how do I do that beyond that?
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00:10:20.000So how that purpose has come alive is. One, um, after my brother's death launched the Alex Foundation, so when he passed on, he
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00:10:30.000was studying animation at Open Window. And so, you know, I always think about the conversation, so I'm the eldest, right? And I do marketing. My sister after me, filmmaker, she studied it after.
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00:10:31.000Okay.
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00:10:40.000Alex was doing animation. Lulu is an advertiser, like we're all creative. Coming from a dad who was a soldier and a mom who's a teacher. I don't know how that works. Out.
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00:10:48.000But I also know the conversations at home around when Alex wanted to stu study animation. My dad is like, I'm about bye. Like, whatcha you gonna be doing?
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00:11:00.000And how? Because I'm the eldest. I was able to say to my parents, there is a career in this thing and stuff, and they, they agreed to pay for me. But I know how in so many families that you know, especially like, you know, disadvantaged families, that
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00:11:02.000concession's really difficult If you say you wanna study in the creative field.
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00:11:20.000Mm-hmm. So with the Alex Foundation, we fund kids from disadvantaged backgrounds who studying the creative fields. And one of the most, you know, sublime moments for me was last year at the lures when the young creative of the uh, uh, the young colored girl from Cape Town, Joey Gordon warn Young Creative of the Year, and she
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00:11:22.000actually was sponsored by the Alex Foundation in Europe.
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00:11:22.000Wow.
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00:11:38.000You look at it and you realise this is impact. Right. So I think the Alex Foundation for me is massive. I think the second part of it is, um, I launched a mentorship platform. Called, own Your Path. There was a little bit of selfishness in it. I was doing a lot of mentorship and I was finding that it was draining me.
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00:11:40.000Um, quite a
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00:12:00.000lot because you take on people's stories, but also there's so many people who ask you and you just think, I just don't physically have the time. So at its basically level own, your path is like a Tinder for mentors and mentees. So you have that Chinle. So you have mentees on the platform, you've got mentors on the platform and they can match and stuff, and then
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00:12:01.000they own the relationship from there.
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00:12:20.000And I found that I've been able to make a bigger impact using our new pot. And I think the shift for me was realizing that whilst I can, I can sit in my house and drink wine and be like, I've done really well. This is great actually, this is beyond me. And if we want. These type of stories
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00:12:23.000to not be, you know, an like an anomaly or to not be Oh wow.
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00:12:40.000She's like, you know, just to be the norm and still celebrated, but just like it's the norm. We need to see more RO role models, especially black female role models who are in different spaces. So, you know, if I think about you like. It's important that young black girls think I can do the same in summits because
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00:12:41.000I saw someone like Saray, right?
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00:13:00.000Like, so it's important that they can see a can see and be like, I can be on an ex gover bank or see. So just like a variety of role models that allow them to dream even beyond, you know, where they are. So I think the biggest shift for me. I was realizing that my success can't just be owned by
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00:13:05.000me. Um, it needed to be broader and shared, uh, much more broadly.
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00:13:20.000I love that, um, above the clouds. And it is one thing that I hold dear.'cause my mother used to say, the sky is the limit and for me, I interpreted is what I can see up there. That's what I'm much rich for. That's beautiful. But when I got to the mountain, I realised that
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00:13:23.000the clouds are beneath me. So I have unlimited potential.
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00:13:35.000And I think if we can. Relate the African child, whether they're black or white, understand that, internalize it, then the sky's not the limit. Absolutely. We can really stand above the clouds.
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00:13:36.000Yeah.
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00:13:40.000So we all face moments when the ground shifts beneath us.
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00:13:46.000I did on every and many other spaces in my life when certainty disappears.
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00:13:54.000Can you take us to a moment like that in your life and what it taught you about who you are becoming?
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00:14:00.000Yeah. And again, you know, you've got a lot of setbacks. They happen, and I always say the biggest one was obviously my brother's death,
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00:14:05.000but unfortunately, again, and it's said that it, it has to take death for you to take a step back.
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00:14:11.000But when my sister committed suicide about three years ago and stuff, one of,
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00:14:12.000sorry about that.
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00:14:20.000Yeah. But I can tell you, Saray, so. I mean, I've learned so much now about mental health and mental wellness simply because of my sister
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00:14:25.000and the journey we went through with her, because it's not like we just got to the point where she committed suicide.
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00:14:40.000Actually, we knew she was going through. Depression, you know, and um, everything she was going through and we took her to different clinics to help her. And in the end it didn't work out. And I think as a family, we are quite
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00:14:47.000certain that where she is is a much better place for her than what she was experiencing living on Earth with us.
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00:15:00.000'cause it was incredibly painful for her, that that much is clear to us. But. What was also important for us was we were never gonna lie about, we were maybe not lie'cause lemme not say people lie, but they don't talk
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00:15:10.000about it. Like we were gonna talk about mental illness very openly and we did that at her funeral and we were gonna talk about suicide very openly because I think if we want.
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00:15:20.000You know, the success bit is, is great, but we need to also develop individuals or help individuals become very aware of where they are mentally and be able to deal with it. It's not that you're always
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00:15:26.000going to be okay. That was a big lesson for me because. I actually realised also at that time that I wasn't okay.
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00:15:40.000And so, and he said I wasn't okay because my sister died. But actually I had, I was, I had bigger issues and I, and I'll tell you exactly what happened. So there's a guy called Mike, and I'd heard of him, he's in advertising, but I didn't really know him.
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00:15:48.000And he'd posted something on, on X about a book he read, and it just said, he said, and this guy has sold.
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00:16:00.000Multiple businesses for millions of rans. I mean, you, when you look at this guy, you think this guy is incredibly successful. And then he posted something like, um, this book has helped me get through my
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00:16:07.000depression. And I was like, Mike, stop for this. Depressed. I, so like, and then I, I decided, let me read the book.
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00:16:20.000In the book's book about mental, like mental connections or, um, and how, actually, if you think about what drives, and it's the spectrum, all the way from anxiety to your depression, you know, and all of that. And it talks about, it's, it gets driven by the fact
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00:16:23.000that we've got seven connections that we lose along the way.
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00:16:40.000One of the connections is connections to nature, connections to each other, people connections to. Like a title connection and then sometimes there's childhood trauma. And those things made me reflect on myself and one, I guess to understand what my sister was going through. But more importantly, I
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00:16:46.000think for me to understand what I was losing connection to and why I was feeling the way I was feeling.
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00:17:00.000And so, you know, things like. Bringing in meditation into my life, really starting.'cause I've, I've always been a runner, but when I started to say I actually wanted to connect more with nature, I mean things like working from home and
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00:17:12.000you sit in the office when you can sit in the garden, um, and actually just be much more, you know, at peace and taking a walk with our dog and, um, ensuring that whilst I love my family, I need to ensure that I'm more connected to them.
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00:17:20.000Ensuring also on title, I mean, what, what Mike said was. When he sold his businesses, whilst he made a lot of money, the
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00:17:32.000title of being a CEO was gone. And he sort of didn't realise like, but where is he? Who is he now in the world? And so if you. If you describe yourself in your job or by your job, you might have a pro.
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00:17:40.000'cause if you lose the job, then who are you really? And so understanding that that for me is just, it's a great job. I enjoy it, but it just pays my
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00:17:49.000bills right and stuff. Yeah. It's actually not who Kinsey is at her essence. And that was a massive shift for me and, and also what I've learned is to forgive myself.
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00:18:00.000Because in many ways you can say, okay, I've read the book and I have to read it sometimes like every six months to remind myself because you get into. The, the grudge of things like, can you do everything
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00:18:05.000and you forget that, didn't I promise myself that I would be meditating? Didn't I promise myself I'd connect to nature?
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00:18:20.000Didn't I promise myself? But don't actually be hard on yourself. Hey, just be like, oh, I've just lost it a little bit, but you know, let me come back and stuff. And yeah, so. It's unfortunate that I got to learn about the book given the grief I was
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00:18:29.000going through. But again, and maybe in both ways, if I think about my brother and my sister, they've actually fundamentally changed my life for better with their deaths.
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00:18:40.000And it's, I'm the eldest and I've lost, you know, my two youngest siblings, which is. Heartbreaking and heart wrenching for me when I think about it. But I also think about the role that they've played
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00:18:50.000in ensuring that actually I become, I at least try to become a better version of myself. So, you know, death's not like, no, you don't wish that on anyone.
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00:19:00.000But I think the shift that happens when you think about. What can shift for you in, in thinking about your deaths very differently, I think can be powerful.
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00:19:12.000And maybe the last thing, and again, I'm sorry that it goes back to death, but when I was at, when I was at Harvard studying my advanced management program, and I remember we had a week to go on the program.
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00:19:20.000I found out that I was one of the top three of the 177 students from like 44 countries around the world, who'd been
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00:19:28.000amazing, who'd been nominated to be the class speaker for graduation. And I was like, me. Oh, I mean, and papa. So how does that,
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00:19:30.000maybe that's what, why. Right?
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00:19:38.000And then, um, the day I found out my dad had passed on, I was in Boston and I remember, you know.
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00:19:40.000And I went to tell the admin office that,
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00:19:55.000you know, this is what happened. And I mean, the first thing, by the way, Nedbank was like, whatever you want to do, if you wanna stay and finish, you've got 10 more days, that's okay. And you know, we'll figure that out. If you wanna come back to bury your dad and go back, that's also fine if you want to stop and finish next year.
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00:20:00.000Also, like Nedbank was like, I can't, I mean, they were insanely supportive. They were like.
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00:20:13.000Whatever you want to do. And my husband was coming to join me for graduation. They said, and we'll sort both you and your hub out, like we'll figure it out. And then, um, I remember calling my mom and saying, you know, I don't, my mom was like, if you don't finish at Harvard, your dad is gonna haunt us.
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00:20:20.000He's been telling everyone that his daughter is at Harvard. Like, so
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00:20:35.000again, to have a family that just says, oh no, we, we, we finish Harvard, we'll bury your dead when you get back, but you're finishing'cause he's gonna haunt us for life just relieves you of just. Stress and drama. But anyway, so I go to the admin office and I say, you know, this is what's happened.
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00:20:40.000So the lady looks at me and she goes, oh. What if you've been voted
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00:20:54.000by the classes the class week, how, like, would you still do it? So I'm like thinking, and I was fortunate enough that my cousin, who our dads are brothers was at, was in Boston as well, studying somewhere else. And she, she was with me and my cousin just said, yes, she'll still do.
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00:21:00.000It's like, it's tough. Okay. And then the, the lady was like, actually you have been voted like class
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00:21:20.000bika. And it was a seminal moment because I remember standing at, at graduation. And it was 44 countries, either online or in the room. And I got to actually yes, give the, you know, sort of summarize what we'd gone through as as a
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00:21:23.000class, but also honor my dad in such a public forum.
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00:21:23.000Wow.
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00:21:38.000And, you know, just talk about how he instilled in me that no one can tell you what you can or cannot be. And also, by the way, my dad used to have this thing weighing. He'd meet my friends and he'd say, why are you here? And like, if you're at a wedding or whatever, you're like, no, I'm at the wedding.
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00:21:40.000They're like, no, no. He says On earth.
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00:22:00.000But then he'd be like, yo, your dad is dreadful. He's deep. He's deep. You know? So to be able to talk about him in such a public. Platform in that way and just honor him. It for me was actually really special. I miss him. I miss my sister, my brother. But let me tell you, Saray, I think the biggest shift for
00:22:00.000 -->
00:22:12.000me has been to recognize that in grief, and I still grieve them deeply, but in grief, there can be a lot of growth, and I've used that as something that that really just anchors me.
00:22:12.000 -->
00:22:20.000I love that. Um, I was getting emotional because, uh, it's very close to me because I had a big shift when I lost my
00:22:20.000 -->
00:22:24.000older sister just reflecting on, ooh, why her?
00:22:24.000 -->
00:22:24.000Mm-hmm.
00:22:24.000 -->
00:22:28.000I'm also next and so what do I, how intentional should I be?
00:22:28.000 -->
00:22:28.000Mm-hmm.
00:22:28.000 -->
00:22:34.000It completely changed my life. Thank you for sharing, and also thank you for sharing.
00:22:34.000 -->
00:22:40.000I know you. Brought your sisters ashes to Kilimanjaro. That was a special moment. I know
00:22:40.000 -->
00:22:44.000it was private, but somehow I feel like I was a little bit part of that.
00:22:44.000 -->
00:22:44.000Yeah,
00:22:44.000 -->
00:22:50.000and that's a special place to leave her, and I'm sure she's looking after you in her own way.
00:22:50.000 -->
00:22:53.000I always say, if you want to understand Ken Sing.
00:22:53.000 -->
00:23:00.000That summit is typical. Khensi have a very private spiritual moment, actually like, you know,
00:23:00.000 -->
00:23:12.000um, spreading my sister's ashes, reading a letter from my other sister, um, and then going from there back to you guys and opening a half bottle of champagne. Ev i, champagne, shower. That's Khensi. Actually,
00:23:12.000 -->
00:23:19.000I actually didn't know you had the ashes until we were up there, which, which was like, okay, does she want us to be part of this?
00:23:19.000 -->
00:23:20.000Does she
00:23:20.000 -->
00:23:24.000not? When you shared, it's like, okay, yeah. You know, we are part of this.
00:23:24.000 -->
00:23:38.000No, absolutely. And I mean, my family came to the airport before, um, I lived for Tanzania and my sister gave me the ashes. My mom spoke to us and it was, it was just beautiful. And I think the thing for us is we always acknowledge.
00:23:38.000 -->
00:23:40.000Family, even the ones we've
00:23:40.000 -->
00:23:43.000lost, you know, it's, it's, it's, they're part of us. And so, yeah.
00:23:43.000 -->
00:24:00.000Amazing. So as a leader who connects brands, businesses, and purpose, you know how quickly people can drift out of alignment under pressure? Mm-hmm. Right. What are three simple yet impactful leadership habits that can help individuals or teams
00:24:00.000 -->
00:24:03.000remain grounded, authentic, and focused.
00:24:03.000 -->
00:24:07.000Mm-hmm. Regardless of the uncertainties that's happening in the environment.
00:24:07.000 -->
00:24:20.000So I think the first thing. It's, it sounds easy, but it's not. It's to have a high level of self-awareness and you've gotta, and getting to a high level of self-awareness sometimes need means being able to take feedback from people to
00:24:20.000 -->
00:24:23.000actually get you to have an understanding of who you are.
00:24:23.000 -->
00:24:40.000And I'll give you an example of how you can drift away if you don't have that. So when I was. 25, I got made a category director at Unilever and it was like, I'm a director. Geez, I don't know what these people are thinking, but, um, I, you know, I was Case Kre who was the MD of Unilever,
00:24:40.000 -->
00:24:45.000South Africa, and showed that I had a coach and a mentor and all of those things to make sure that I was successful.
00:24:45.000 -->
00:25:00.000But I got feedback from someone who said to. You know, your energy is such that if you are in a room and you're in a good mood, the room is in a good mood. If you're in a room and you're in a bad mood, the room is in a bad mood. So you've gotta learn how to manage your energy.
00:25:00.000 -->
00:25:02.000And initially I was like, I'm not listening to this person.
00:25:02.000 -->
00:25:20.000Me. I'm like, you know. But I started looking at it and watching it, and I realised that actually my energy is. Impactful and it can be impactful in a very ne negative way. And if I wanna be a leader of people, I've gotta ensure that I, I try calibrate it. Like, you know, at least, at least from the
00:25:20.000 -->
00:25:25.000negative side, you know, you know, so when I was talking about the book, mental connections and stuff.
00:25:25.000 -->
00:25:40.000One of the reasons was in that self-awareness mode, I realised I was leaking. So I'd taught myself for so long how to try regulate my emotions, but I got to a point where actually I wasn't. I was snappy. I would
00:25:40.000 -->
00:25:48.000literally walk into a, this is like. Three years ago, guys, like I'd literally walk into a room and my team is just sitting there thinking, is she in a good mood?
00:25:48.000 -->
00:26:00.000Is she in a bad mood? Like what? Oh my God. And I mean that how like sucky is that for your team to be able, like to want to under Oh geez, when I think about it, but it's okay. It's part of my
00:26:00.000 -->
00:26:08.000learning and growing and stuff. And so having that high level of self is important because there's things that maybe you need to work on, but then they leak, right?
00:26:08.000 -->
00:26:20.000Yeah. Because life happens. And so I think that's. The first thing is if you really want to be impactful, you've gotta know yourself incredibly deeply. I think the second
00:26:20.000 -->
00:26:30.000thing is, and it's a, it's a balance. So one of the things I learned at in Kilimanjaro and I, and you know, people ask me like a lot of it is that in, when you're a leader, you're so used to.
00:26:30.000 -->
00:26:40.000Being in front and making the decisions, making the call. And on Kely, I wasn't the expert and I needed other people to tell me what to do.
00:26:40.000 -->
00:26:50.000And for me, that's very difficult when some call is telling people like what to do. But you took it Well, it took, you know, I didn't see it. Abso and it, it actually. I enjoyed it.
00:26:50.000 -->
00:27:00.000I was like, yo, I don't have to decide. Someone else is deciding. This is amazing. And so, and, and in that by the way, when you decide that there's
00:27:00.000 -->
00:27:13.000moments when I can tell you just give someone else like the opportunity to lead. It takes up. So much pressure from you. You realise that in that empowerment, you become a beta leader, you grow beta bench strength even for your role or other roles and stuff.
00:27:13.000 -->
00:27:20.000It's actually selfishly, you should just allow other people to know because it's actually better for you and the trust that comes from that. I always
00:27:20.000 -->
00:27:22.000speak about that. Jump on Barranco wall.
00:27:22.000 -->
00:27:23.000Yes,
00:27:23.000 -->
00:27:33.000to trust. That the other person on the other side is gonna hold you is a massive thing. It's like, because you're like, they don't hold me on the other side here.
00:27:33.000 -->
00:27:40.000You're looking down the mountain and you're like, this is precipitous, you know? But it was such a big
00:27:40.000 -->
00:27:56.000lesson for me around. Mm-hmm. Just in like knowing that there are a lot of moments when just allow other people to lead and take a step back. I think as, as leaders, we try too hard, I think, to be honest, not in fact, we try too hard and it's, we must be the rah rah, let's do this, let's do this.
00:27:56.000 -->
00:28:00.000Just allow other people to do it. And actually the, the growth of
00:28:00.000 -->
00:28:18.000those people is going to be incredible. And you yourself, you know, when you can work yourself out of your job, you're in the best place since time. So that was like, I think a massive lesson for me around just. Impact and ensuring that you have a cohort of people who are gonna be the next Sarays kinzie, you know?
00:28:18.000 -->
00:28:20.000Exactly. Um, and which is,
00:28:20.000 -->
00:28:40.000um, incredible. Then I think the last part for me is honestly authenticity. Like I said, like when you ask me who I am, it is my core value. What I learned was that you, if you want to get the best out of me. You've gotta allow me to be myself. Yeah. Um, and sometimes what I do to push the boundaries, so when I had my first
00:28:40.000 -->
00:28:44.000interview at Nedbank, I got there wearing all star sneakers.
00:28:44.000 -->
00:29:00.000I had a t-shirt'cause I needed them to see my tattoos and stuff. Because what, and it was important for me because. I don't want them to hire me. And then now when I come in with my sneakers and they see my tattoos and they're like, can you, what was going on? What happened? This is not the person we saw in the
00:29:00.000 -->
00:29:00.000interview.
00:29:00.000 -->
00:29:20.000So it's about underlining for them who they're getting, but also when I say like, I, the first board meeting at Nedbank, again, walked in with sneakers. Um, and then I, and then I'll, I'll throw an F word in there and like look at them in the room, say like, are they soft enough? Yeah. You know. But it
00:29:20.000 -->
00:29:22.000lays the groundwork for who Kensey is going to be.
00:29:22.000 -->
00:29:39.000And you, the organization can decide that I'm, this chick's not gonna work for us and stuff. And the absolute sort of perfectionist thing for me that happened was Nedbank was like, I mean, look just different, but we love her and you know,
00:29:39.000 -->
00:29:39.000let's
00:29:39.000 -->
00:29:40.000try this.
00:29:40.000 -->
00:29:45.000That's different. Let you know what I mean. And so the reason I've been able to do so well at Nedbank.
00:29:45.000 -->
00:30:00.000Honestly, it's because the organization has allowed me to just be 150% me and stuff. I know when to tone it down. That's why I say sometimes I, I push the boundaries just to like, you know, test them and stuff. So I would say as a leader, when people
00:30:00.000 -->
00:30:09.000experience you. Authentically, I can tell you, you know, you yourself are going to do your best work, but people are gonna do the best, their best work for you.
00:30:09.000 -->
00:30:20.000Yeah. Because they know, like what they see is what they like. They, they know exactly what they're dealing with. And actually in that authenticity is about vulnerability. Right. Um, I can remember when, so
00:30:20.000 -->
00:30:31.000after I read Mental Connections and decided to go on a personal retreat. To Mexico to do all the, and you know, that's the other thing about guys, we never fully formed fully perfect, fully.
00:30:31.000 -->
00:30:40.000I think life is just constantly growing and trying to get like just the best version of yourself and it'll never be the best
00:30:40.000 -->
00:30:51.000because just this is how life is. But when I stood in front of my team and we were celebrating, um, our recognitions, our top achievers and all of that, and when I did my speech, I said like.
00:30:51.000 -->
00:31:00.000It's great guys. Well done everyone. But, um, and that's the moment I told my team that I wasn't okay. And I said, and I hope that as you try to
00:31:00.000 -->
00:31:11.000achieve and all of that, that if you, you always recognize where you are emotionally and mentally because it's no use winning all these awards. When you sit alone, um, you're actually not in a good pace and stuff.
00:31:11.000 -->
00:31:20.000And the number of people, Saray, who came to me afterwards to say, to see our boss, just tell us I'm not okay guys, like I'm taking some time
00:31:20.000 -->
00:31:40.000out to go to personal retreat. And all of that gives them the permission to be themselves, to be vulnerable when they need to be. Um, and. I find actually now that some of the engagements I have are much deeper and more like, more impactful than if I just pretended that I go through
00:31:40.000 -->
00:31:41.000life at 150 miles.
00:31:41.000 -->
00:31:53.000And most people probably think I do, but actually, um, when I share pretty openly. So I think that authenticity and vulnerability is a big part of why I am as impactful as I am.
00:31:53.000 -->
00:32:00.000Amazing. I wanna actually thank you for. Allowing me and my team to lead on
00:32:00.000 -->
00:32:00.000Kili.
00:32:00.000 -->
00:32:00.000Mm-hmm.
00:32:00.000 -->
00:32:07.000I must tell you, I was under a lot of pressure'cause you were making it very clear that I'm not making any decisions.
00:32:07.000 -->
00:32:20.000Saray, are you sure? You looked at me right in the face, like, are you sure this is what we should be doing? I'm like, Khensi, I'm sure. Then I get out of that tent, I'm like, flipping hell. I better make sure.
00:32:20.000 -->
00:32:37.000But it, it was just amazing to feel trusted because sometimes you get people that lead in corporate and they come on the mountain and they want to be bosses on the mountain and, and, and you look at them and say, listen, this guy that has only grade seven.
00:32:37.000 -->
00:32:40.000Actually the leader here and just trust them and,
00:32:40.000 -->
00:32:56.000you know, ask questions from clarity. But trust, because your summit is their summit. They may not be in the picture. They are the unsung heroes that make it possible. That's why I'm very passionate about porters, which, and, and shepherds because we don't give them enough credit.
00:32:56.000 -->
00:33:00.000But anyway, Ani with everything
00:33:00.000 -->
00:33:20.000around you. Shifting in one way or another. Vulnerability often, which you've also mentioned, feels like a risk for most people, and it sounds like it's not for you, what would you say to women leaders who are caring so much? Still hesitate to see vulnerability as part of
00:33:20.000 -->
00:33:20.000superpower?
00:33:20.000 -->
00:33:40.000Yeah, I mean the word superpower is so appropriate. Um, for me, one of the biggest lessons I learned, and I, I guess I knew it, but COVID highlighted it. So if you think about the leaders who did really well globally, it was New Zealand Prime Minister women leaders, and I think it came from
00:33:40.000 -->
00:33:43.000a place of empathy and care, which are.
00:33:43.000 -->
00:34:00.000Traits that women innately generally have, uh, men also do, but for women, like it's, you know, innately women have those, and in the past they've been looked at as not leadership traits. So you're too soft, you're too nice, you know, and all of that. And. And actually
00:34:00.000 -->
00:34:04.000what COVID showed very obviously was that those traits are actually superpowers.
00:34:04.000 -->
00:34:04.000Yeah.
00:34:04.000 -->
00:34:20.000It doesn't mean you can't make the hard decision, but you can make the hard decision with empathy, understanding the impact on the other side. And that impact is not just a numbers impact, it's a people impact as well. You, it's a societal impact and you've gotta take all of that into account. So for me.
00:34:20.000 -->
00:34:20.00000:34:20.000 -->
00:34:40.000What I would say, um, as a woman is if you stop thinking about vulnerability care, empathy as negative or as not leadership traits, you will find yourself much more impactful because the more you bring those elements into your, into your space, as you lead your teams,
00:34:40.000 -->
00:34:43.000you'll actually realise that you'll be a much stronger leader.
00:34:43.000 -->
00:34:52.000You don't have to. Like show up as a guy. Like, you know, like when you see a lot of, and we now do the firm handshakes and you know, that's how you know.
00:34:52.000 -->
00:34:52.000Yeah.
00:34:52.000 -->
00:35:00.000You don't have to, I think there's stuff we can learn from men and I mean, you know, things like negotiation in terms of my salary, I've learned from men and know,
00:35:00.000 -->
00:35:02.000you know, there's stuff that we can learn.
00:35:02.000 -->
00:35:19.000But also I think there's stuff that we should lean into as that are innate to us and ensure that we actually bring them to the table, because ultimately they are our superpowers. Like don't be, don't be afraid of them, and you'll be surprised how impactful you'll be. Absolutely.
00:35:19.000 -->
00:35:20.000So what does
00:35:20.000 -->
00:35:21.000legacy mean for you?
00:35:21.000 -->
00:35:22.000Oh,
00:35:22.000 -->
00:35:40.000the good. So, I mean, maybe lemme talk'cause it's, it's in, it's in like different ways, but I have thought about it and I think the first thing is I definitely want to have a marketing legacy. I always say I never wanna be the marketer that just quietly goes out into the night. Like, you know, I never had any sort
00:35:40.000 -->
00:35:43.000of, you know, impact in, in the industry for me.
00:35:43.000 -->
00:36:00.000I, you know, when I finish, I definitely want to be considered one of the greats when it, and, and, and by the way, as I talk about that, I find it fascinating where we are in the world right now, where if someone says, like you, I want to climb the seven summits. Apparently
00:36:00.000 -->
00:36:01.000having a big vision like that is no longer great.
00:36:01.000 -->
00:36:20.000Like people are like, yo, aga. Exactly. Who do you think you are? It's like the weirdest thing for me, like when I say I wanna build the best marketing team on the continent, who do you think you are? No, I'm Saray. Kamala is who I am, and that's what I'm going to do. And there's no way the guys would've.
00:36:20.000 -->
00:36:24.000Some had gone to the moon if they hadn't put, had a vision or a big dream and stuff.
00:36:24.000 -->
00:36:40.000So for me, I definitely wanna be known as one of the greats in marketing. And if that makes some people uncomfortable, I'm okay with that. Like, I'm not uncomfortable, like I love it for myself'cause it pushes me and one of the greats is actually, uh, it's, it's different ways. One is absolutely
00:36:40.000 -->
00:36:48.000ensuring that when I leave Nedbank, um, or any other organization, that I've built the best marketing team on this continent, and I'm incredibly clear about that.
00:36:48.000 -->
00:36:56.000And when I look last year for the Lures, we were the second most awarded brand in Africa, middle East, and the first most awarded brand in Africa.
00:36:56.000 -->
00:36:56.000Amazing.
00:36:56.000 -->
00:37:00.000We won the marketing team of the year at the Marketing Achievement Awards this
00:37:00.000 -->
00:37:05.000year. So it's going there, you know what I mean? So, and block by block, this is what I tell my team that.
00:37:05.000 -->
00:37:20.000If we win marketing team of the year, actually it's not, it's you guys because you are the team, right? Mm-hmm. It's you guys' award. It's actually not mine. So we all win because we are all driving for that. I think the second thing is transformation of the industry.
00:37:20.000 -->
00:37:36.000I've been, I. Really clear that if, and, and it comes, I guess from the purpose of the bank as well, is to ensure that if we are an organization that makes its money on this continent and or makes its money in South Africa, then the agencies that we work with should reflect the country that we live in.
00:37:36.000 -->
00:37:40.000And I think a lot of. What we've done, and I'm glad the agencies that we work
00:37:40.000 -->
00:37:54.000with as Nedbank are on the same path as me. So we've seen Joe Public, our big agency, go through an ownership sort of diversification, bringing in black owners who come from their own staff, stuff that are quite senior in the organization, have been there for many years.
00:37:54.000 -->
00:38:00.000And you know, I pushed for that, ensuring that from a production perspective.'cause if you think of the value chain of
00:38:00.000 -->
00:38:17.000advertising, the production houses are generally still very wide owned. Um, and. Trying to ensure that we give business to production houses that are also black owned. And what you'll find interesting, Saray, is you've got a lot of white production owned black, um, production, white owned production companies that are supportive of this.
00:38:17.000 -->
00:38:20.000They wanna be part of the journey because they realise that
00:38:20.000 -->
00:38:36.000the more diverse. Visions and, uh, voices that they we have, the better the work in South Africa will be. They just need someone to actually just start the conversation and push it. So we've agreed that we're gonna move a lot of our marketing spend, um, about 30% into black-owned production companies.
00:38:36.000 -->
00:38:40.000And some of them actually being helped by the white owned production companies because they
00:38:40.000 -->
00:38:59.000really believe in the journey. And then our outdoor from an out of home, if you look at billboards, 70% of our billboards are in black owned hands and stuff. So for me, that legacy is about ensuring that we, I use my role at Nedbank to actually drive real transformation and not transformation and, and I look after transformation at the bank, right?
00:38:59.000 -->
00:39:00.000So it's not that triple
00:39:00.000 -->
00:39:16.000BE scorecard, which is important. Um, you know, I manage that, but it's real transformation where. We're actually seeing the industry shift and we're seeing the industry change to reflect who we are as a country and, and most pe, most South Africans. Very supportive of that, um, when they understand the vision that you're trying to do.
00:39:16.000 -->
00:39:20.000So I think, oh, and then the last thing I guess from marketing in
00:39:20.000 -->
00:39:40.000terms of legacy is I would love in like a few years to be looking at the chief marketing officers across many organizations and be like, oh, they worked for me. Like, yeah, I know you. I know you and I mean, I'm so fortunate that. I can tell you now, and we were having a talent discussion at work yesterday, and
00:39:40.000 -->
00:39:47.000I was saying to the CEO, if I had to leave Nedbank, now there are five people who currently report to me who can get my job.
00:39:47.000 -->
00:40:00.000They don't have to go external, they don't have, so we've built such a strong pipeline of strong, incredible marketers. Um, and so that was always important for me that I'm like, it's, it's easy to want to be the queen in the,
00:40:00.000 -->
00:40:04.000you know, but actually like, no, like you don't have to be, there's many other people.
00:40:04.000 -->
00:40:20.000So I think that's marketing. I think from a family perspective, because my hubby and I decided not to have kids. Oh, I, I, I play a big role in my nephews and nieces life, and it's important to me, Saray, that. Especially so my sister's kids, obviously my sister's kids. So the
00:40:20.000 -->
00:40:24.000three will always, I guess, get auntie love much more and stuff than my cousin's kids.
00:40:24.000 -->
00:40:40.000But I never want a situation where there's only one kin in the family. Like I, I need many Alex's or so my nephews and Alex and Amani, and Zoe's my niece. I need like all of those, like many, always many. They must be challenging each other. They must like
00:40:40.000 -->
00:40:45.000we, our next generation guys, we, they cannot be looking at, oh, we can't see help out here, whatever.
00:40:45.000 -->
00:41:00.000That they must all be like if one can't, this one can or whatever. And also maybe no one needs help anymore. Right? I don't know that for me it's important that from a family perspective. We, and when my parents did a really good job, we all went to varsity. And you know, and
00:41:00.000 -->
00:41:01.000education I think is really important.
00:41:01.000 -->
00:41:20.000So what you find is that I pay for school fees for a lot of people. Uh, but I, I don't even look at it in a negative way at all. For me, it's about ensuring that my family's legacy of excellence continues.'cause I do think my mom and dad were excellent and, and how do we just continue to do that and
00:41:20.000 -->
00:41:24.000ensure that we've got a family that's, yeah, that's not.
00:41:24.000 -->
00:41:40.000In the doldrums or like, you know, so I think that's like really important for me. And then I guess in South Africa itself, and that's about living out my purpose, um, around like really showing the art of the possible. So as exhausted as I can get, and when I walked in, I said to Saray, oh, I can't wait for December
00:41:40.000 -->
00:41:41.000and to take my month off and stuff.
00:41:41.000 -->
00:42:00.000As exhausted as I can get, I would read something like, Saray asks me to come on this podcast, shift happens and I read what it means and I go. I've gotta go because that's actually so linked to my purpose, and I know that when I'm doing it, I'll be so energized and so as tired as I can be in the
00:42:00.000 -->
00:42:06.000morning or when I go to bed and stuff, I know that when I'm living my purpose, when I'm in it, I'm incredibly energized.
00:42:06.000 -->
00:42:19.000And I hope that there are many young women who get inspired and energized by that and know that their, their starting point is absolutely not their, their end point. There's no way. Like we, I started.
00:42:19.000 -->
00:42:20.000No,
00:42:20.000 -->
00:42:20.000that's not where I belong.
00:42:20.000 -->
00:42:33.000That's not where I belong. Right. But I'm here. And so every young girl, if you, you should always know that where you start, I mean, like, I'm, I'm talking a talk young girl, but you look at Issa, I mean, I watched the box this weekend, sweetie.
00:42:33.000 -->
00:42:34.000Yeah.
00:42:34.000 -->
00:42:40.000To what I mean, it's just, and, and, and he then gets to, his story becomes bigger
00:42:40.000 -->
00:42:46.000than him actually. He can't own his story. It's owned by so many people who look at it and go, I can be more than where I come from.
00:42:46.000 -->
00:43:00.000Amazing. It's, it's humbling and also it creates a sense of responsibility. And one thing that I picked up from you, which I kind of struggled with after I summited Everest and I came back and there was this welcome at the airport, I
00:43:00.000 -->
00:43:02.000was like, oh my God, okay.
00:43:02.000 -->
00:43:15.000I grew up saying, you know, don't, don't show off. You know. I took a few months before I could say, hi, my name is Saray. I am the first black African wow to Summit Everest because I had to convince myself
00:43:15.000 -->
00:43:16.000to
00:43:16.000 -->
00:43:20.000own my story, to be proud of it so that I can release
00:43:20.000 -->
00:43:25.000other people ly to also proud of what, yeah, so ambition, like you mentioned.
00:43:25.000 -->
00:43:27.000It's, we don't have to be apologizing.
00:43:27.000 -->
00:43:27.000No,
00:43:27.000 -->
00:43:40.000I, I think boys are more comfortable within than girls are. And we need to teach our young girls to not apologize for who they want to be. Absolutely. To not be afraid to say, Hey, I wanna go beyond
00:43:40.000 -->
00:43:43.000Everest.'cause that's why you and I have done what we've done.
00:43:43.000 -->
00:43:46.000Because we know that they can go further, they can do more,
00:43:46.000 -->
00:44:00.000they can do more. And I think our responsibilities as. Adults, parents, aunts, uncles, is to allow them to dream. When I told my parents at the age of four that I wanted to be an astronaut, they were like, okay,
00:44:00.000 -->
00:44:03.000she's swa, but apparently she thinks she's going to go to nasa.
00:44:03.000 -->
00:44:06.000Okay. But I didn't say no. Hey,
00:44:06.000 -->
00:44:06.000yeah,
00:44:06.000 -->
00:44:13.000my parents never. They just said, sounds amazing. Go for it. Go for it.
00:44:13.000 -->
00:44:20.000You know, it can see all good things come to an end. So let's have our signature question. Okay. Uh,
00:44:20.000 -->
00:44:28.000you know, we all know that shift happens and responsibilities change. We lose our loved ones, we gain some and we lose some as we go on.
00:44:28.000 -->
00:44:40.000So that's what life is about. Mm-hmm. Shift happening all the time. So, apart from some of the shifts that you've shared, what's happened in your own life that's taught you who you are
00:44:40.000 -->
00:44:41.000and who you are becoming? I
00:44:41.000 -->
00:44:49.000think I spoke a little bit about where I come from, but maybe what a lot of the listeners won't know is, so I grew up in a number of countries.
00:44:49.000 -->
00:45:00.000I grew up, um, you know, I lived in Mos Zambia, Ghana. I grew a number of countries and what it allowed me to do. Is, it made me incredibly open
00:45:00.000 -->
00:45:13.000to different cultures, different people. For me, how I interact with you, I experience you is you, I've, I've got no preconception about, you know, how you go. Honestly, I really have none.
00:45:13.000 -->
00:45:20.000Zero. Um, and. I think it's about taking that to the next of, I, I do feel
00:45:20.000 -->
00:45:34.000like I've done a lot in South Africa and I do think that, you know, so I've got a tattoo of Africa on my back and, and so I, whilst I'm South African, I wasn't born here, um, lived in all these African countries and I think I've got.
00:45:34.000 -->
00:45:40.000I've got a responsibility for my continent. Oh yes. As big as I've have for South Africa,
00:45:40.000 -->
00:45:56.000because whilst South Africa is like my dad's country, so I'm South African. And when we came back in 1994, you know, I love this country, but I also love my continent. And so I think my next shift is reflective of, I think my impact on the continent.
00:45:56.000 -->
00:46:00.000I've just been nominated, um, for. You know,
00:46:00.000 -->
00:46:03.000impactful women in Africa, women in marketing for Africa.
00:46:03.000 -->
00:46:03.000Amazing.
00:46:03.000 -->
00:46:20.000Congratulations and thank you. And I think it's that now it's about going beyond the borders of South Africa and thinking about how can I make a broader impact? Because also if you look at, just, even though it's next door, you look at Switzerland and my family's there, they live in poverty, Saray,
00:46:20.000 -->
00:46:22.000and how do I ensure that?
00:46:22.000 -->
00:46:39.000Whilst we're dealing with South Africa, I've got also like also help the legacy there and stuff. Yeah. But also just marketers on the continent. I met a lady from Nigeria. She's a marketer. So she said to me, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm meeting you. Like, I've heard so much about you in Nigeria. I was like, me.
00:46:39.000 -->
00:46:40.000Ah.
00:46:40.000 -->
00:47:00.000So I actually realised the responsibility that I have, even for the marketing fraternity on the continent to ensure that we are, yeah, like we make a bigger impact, like for ourselves in the world. I, I, I got WhatsApp, so for cop, um, in Brazil, they. There's a guy who
00:47:00.000 -->
00:47:02.000did a presentation and then he put my face up.
00:47:02.000 -->
00:47:13.000So this chick is sitting in the room going, that's Khensi. And then he goes, I met this lady from South Africa. I think she's one of the most authentic inspirational leaders. She's like, they're talking about you in real girl.
00:47:13.000 -->
00:47:14.000Amazing.
00:47:14.000 -->
00:47:19.000And so you realise that actually you can have, but I've never been intentional about it.
00:47:19.000 -->
00:47:20.000So South
00:47:20.000 -->
00:47:40.000Africa has been very intentional, but I've never been intentional about actually how I could. Impact the continent and impact other women that, or together even do that to ensure that I think Africa stands up and we show like if you, I mean a lot of people don't know this'cause maybe they're not in my industry for Cannes Lions, which is the biggest advertising festival in the world,
00:47:40.000 -->
00:47:46.000Africa, normally were lucky to come out with like five medals and they award thousands of medals.
00:47:46.000 -->
00:48:00.000Oh wow. For a continent that is as creative. As it is in so many ways, solve so many solutions, in so many creative ways for us to not be showing up. I mean, for me, actually, from a marketing and
00:48:00.000 -->
00:48:10.000creativity perspective, what the, our South African sports teams are doing and doing really well, that's what we should be emulating to showcase to the world that this continent.
00:48:10.000 -->
00:48:20.000Actually has some of the best marketers and creative leaders who've created the, like the best solutions that have made real business and brand impact and actually can
00:48:20.000 -->
00:48:29.000compete with the South Americans, the Europeans, the Americans, then the Asians. And so for me, I think. That's the shift that I'm trying to figure out right now.
00:48:29.000 -->
00:48:40.000And the thing I started about in terms of where I grew up and all of that is actually, I feel like it doesn't even scare me because I, I mean, it does, but also I know
00:48:40.000 -->
00:48:51.000how easily I, like I am able to connect with people because I'm so open, I'm so, I take you as you are, and if I feel like. This journey, I think can be great if we do it together.
00:48:51.000 -->
00:48:56.000You know, I think there's a lot of people who I can connect with on the, you know, on the continent who we, we could do this together.
00:48:56.000 -->
00:48:59.000Absolutely. Nobody gets to the top alone.
00:48:59.000 -->
00:49:00.000Yeah,
00:49:00.000 -->
00:49:00.000absolutely.
00:49:00.000 -->
00:49:05.000But you have to be intentional about the people that you put on the rope with. They have to be the right people.
00:49:05.000 -->
00:49:20.000Absolutely love that. I think you are right that a Africa is creative. Mm-hmm. So why are we not showing up? Yeah. I think the world needs to see us. Sometimes we are afraid of our own shadows. Absolutely.'cause of the history and because where we come from, but if we have a
00:49:20.000 -->
00:49:23.000ancy and another, there's a few others that are seen Absolutely.
00:49:23.000 -->
00:49:25.000That are really pushing brand Africa.
00:49:25.000 -->
00:49:25.000Yeah.
00:49:25.000 -->
00:49:40.000Um, and also the fragmentation, only the continent becomes problematic is to try and find that. Thread that unites us. Yeah. Connects us. Yeah. So that we have a united front in some of these spaces
00:49:40.000 -->
00:49:48.000that, um, you mentioned, so Khensi, you remind us very much that leadership isn't really necessarily just a position, it's a posture.
00:49:48.000 -->
00:49:48.000Mm-hmm.
00:49:48.000 -->
00:49:50.000Right. Well, I love that
00:49:50.000 -->
00:50:00.000it's not about controlling the climb, but really learning to listen to the mountain. Mm-hmm. So I'm taking it back to the mountain, so it's not about. Lemme control
00:50:00.000 -->
00:50:10.000everything, but listen to what's happening and adjust according to, uh, where you need to go. Because growth isn't found in certainty, it's found in grace.
00:50:10.000 -->
00:50:20.000In choosing to rise, reflect and redefine yourself every time. Shift happens'cause I don't think you shifted the same after your
00:50:20.000 -->
00:50:30.000brother as you did after your dad. Mm-hmm. And your sister. So it's shifting based on where you are at, what you need to become, who you deserve to be.
00:50:30.000 -->
00:50:30.000Love that.
00:50:30.000 -->
00:50:33.000Thank you Khensani for joining us.
00:50:33.000 -->
00:50:40.000um, I'm hoping that today has been as. Rewarding to you as it has been to me and
00:50:40.000 -->
00:50:43.000some of the listeners that will pick this up along the way.
00:50:43.000 -->
00:50:45.000It absolutely has. Thank you for having me.
00:50:45.000 -->
00:50:58.000Thank you. Thank you to the listener. I hope you can feel the air thinning up here. Remember this. Your greatest view isn't behind you.
00:50:58.000 -->
00:51:00.000It lies just
00:51:00.000 -->
00:51:20.000beyond the hardest climb. The shift has happened. The question is no longer why it happened, but who you become because of it. Don't wait for permission to begin your scent. Don't let fear silence your potential. Seize the listen on the step
00:51:20.000 -->
00:51:27.000command, the future you've been listening to. When Shift Happens with me, Saray Khumalo.
00:51:27.000 -->
00:51:30.000Now the climb begins with you.
00:51:30.000 -->
00:51:34.000Until next time, keep stepping and let's go higher.
00:51:34.000 -->
00:51:40.000If you'd like to explore some of the lessons and tools we spoke about today, you'll find them in the
00:51:40.000 -->
00:51:49.000show notes. If today's conversation spoke to you, share it with someone that's facing their own climb. Together we are rising one shift at a time.
00:51:49.000 -->
00:51:54.000When Shift Happens, it's a Jackpot Original podcast by Jacaranda fm. Let's go higher.
