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Well, despite being a lifelong introvert, Nick Bendel has set himself the extraordinary challenge to have lunch with 500 complete strangers.
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What began as a personal experiment to overcome his own hesitation became a powerful lesson in how confidence and meaningful relationships are built.
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Drawing on hundreds of conversations with entrepreneurs, artists, politicians, executives, academics, and community leaders, Nick argues that most people aren't held back by a lack of talent or ambition, but by the fear of making the first move.
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His book introduces the concept of social courage, which is the willingness to take small interpersonal risks before you feel completely ready, and shows how simple conversations can open doors, change careers and reshape lives.
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And shows how simple conversations can open doors, change careers, and reshape lives.
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So, Nick, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
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Oh, great to be here, Deb.
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Well, I think this is a great experiment of sorts, which has turned out, as you've just been chatting to me and letting me know, to have created this whole new network for you.
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Tell me a little bit about who you had lunch with yesterday and today.
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Well, I did a project, as you know, where I had lunch with 500 strangers and I became good friends with with quite a few of the people I met.
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And on any given day, I'm always communicating with at least one person.
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Yesterday I had lunch with one of the early one of the in fact, the ninth person I met on those 500 lunches.
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This morning I had breakfast with the 361st person I met.
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They've all got like their numbers, you know, where they sit in the in the journey, which is interesting.
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They did.
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And in fact, also I noticed last week that another one of the people I met, I noticed that her LinkedIn profile had changed, which surprised me because she owns business.
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And so I called her just to find out what was going on.
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And she mentioned that she was getting a bit sick of that business and was thinking about applying for a corporate job.
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And she's someone who's incredibly smart and skilled and got a great track record.
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And I said to her, Well, let me know what sort of roles you're looking for, and I can contact a few people on your behalf.
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So I actually texted six people earlier today, funnily enough, all of whom I had lunch with on her behalf just to see if they were looking for someone like her.
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And what a what a wonderful, I mean, really, it's it's sort of old school in a sense that this is how what, you know, I've been reading quite a bit about this issue that people used to go up to the bank, they used to go to the village, you know.
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I mean, there's still it's coming back a bit now because people are sick of being so isolated.
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But it seems that you're tapping quite a critical issue that is affecting a lot of people, which is theoretically, one could spend their day completely remote, isolated, and not connected.
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You know, even people can order all their food online.
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And I think this is an issue for young people, but also for older people and even for the elderly, where that disconnect happens.
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And I think this is very much what you're reflecting in this book, which is we have to sort of put ourselves out there in order to connect and to find that.
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That's a perfect example.
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Yeah, I really like the point you made about how with our increasingly technological world, we're actually being pushed further and further away from that.
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In the past, you had all these social interactions naturally, where whether you wanted them or not, but now you can very easily opt out of human connection.
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And then there are other people who don't want to opt out, but they don't have the skills or the opportunities.
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We now go out of our way to add human connection to our lives.
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And I also think that the people who who do that more often and who therefore feel most comfortable doing it, and who have the the strongest and deepest networks are going to increasingly have an advantage in in this AI-driven world where where technical skills no longer hold the currency that they once did in the workforce.
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Yeah, because those fundamental human connections and the capacity to listen and therefore evolve as part of that.
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That's actually what this podcast very much is.
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It's very much listen and learn and connect.
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And it's actually proved very effectively.
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While we're using technology to connect, we're actually it's so critical.
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We've created this whole community, which is not where it started.
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It's not a dissimilar concept, really, to what you've done.
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So the 500 lunches, I've done like 500 interviews here, and it's the same, it's just so rewarding.
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Tell me where yours started and and what it came from that you decided to go on this journey.
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What's interesting uh about my journey, Deb, I'm an introvert.
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I my idea of a good time is staying at home on my own with a cup of tea and a good book.
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And so having lunch with 500 strangers, that was very much against my natural inclinations.
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The the reason I I decided to have these lunches, I'd recently started a business and I was obsessed with making this business succeed, but I was also quite anxious because I'd never had a business and I didn't know what I needed to do to make a business succeed.
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And I was wrestling with this dilemma for a few months, and eventually an idea started taking shape in my mind, which was if I was going to succeed with business, I had to start acting differently.
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I I thought if I was, if I continued to be that person who just kind of stayed at home on his own, that sort of person would struggle to meet potential clients and struggle to make sales.
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It occurred to me, Deb, that I needed to put myself out there, which was a scary prospect.
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I needed to really improve my social skills, I needed to strengthen my mindset, I needed to build a great network.
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I thought if I did those things, I would have the opportunity to build a successful business.
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And funnily enough, as those ideas were taking shape in my mind, a book got published.
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This was in 2019 called 100 Lunches with Strangers.
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I heard about it just before it was released.
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And I thought that's really interesting.
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I bought a copy of the book.
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The author, Kaylee Chu, writes about her experience having lunch with 100 strangers in her hometown of Melbourne.
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And I thought that is such a good idea.
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I'm going to steal the idea.
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But rather than having 100 lunches, I'll have 500.
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And I actually contacted the author, Kaylee.
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I'm based in Sydney, yeah.
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And I said to her, I've just read your book.
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I loved it.
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You've inspired me to have lunch with 500 strangers, Kaylee.
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Would you pay me the honor of being my very first lunch?
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I love on August 27, 2019, I flew to Melbourne to have lunch with her, and then I flew back to Sydney on the same day.
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That was the first lunch.
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And then six years later in August 2025, I had my 500th lunch.
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I think that's great too, the way that by connecting with her, rather than like that in itself is quite a beautiful way to start because you had her blessing and clearly she had inspired you, which was, I suppose, the purpose of her book was to actually provide that inspiration.
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Yeah, that's absolutely right.
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That that is one of the reasons she wrote her book and we got on really well and we've remained friends since.
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And she's been incredibly supportive of me having these lunches, and she's a very generous person.
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So I was really honored that she wanted to meet and glad we were able to build that relationship.
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And the other thing that I find quite interesting is how did you choose who you were going to have lunch with?
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So originally it started as a business lens, but it sounds like it morphed into a lot more than that.
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Yes, that you've identified something really important there because even though I was doing it because I wanted to create a successful business, I never tried to turn any of the people I met into clients.
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And many of the people I met couldn't have been clients anyway.
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I very deliberately wanted to meet people of all different ages, backgrounds, professions, all different walks of life.
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My theory was that if I was meeting all these different people, I would be exposed to new ideas, new conversations, new ways of thinking, and I would learn so much more.
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So that's what that's the way I approach it.
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I to begin with, everyone, I wasn't too selective in who I was meeting because everyone was new.
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But once I'd started, once I'd met quite a few people, I I became more selective because I didn't want to keep meeting the same types of people.
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And so I would actively search for people who had achieved some sort of very interesting success or were working on some sort of unusual project, something that that differentiated them in some way from the people I'd already met.
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And did you find that so what was your pitch to have lunch with people, random strangers?
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How did you how did you couch the the pitch to them?
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I I would call it an invitation rather than a pitch because I actually very deliberately, I never tried to talk anyone into it because I thought I I don't want them to be cajoled to be cajoled into meeting me.
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I I want them to feel like it's a good idea.
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So I would just contact them, I would explain, hi Deb, my name's Nick.
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I'm doing this project where I'm having lunch with 500 strangers, and I would include a link to an article I'd published on LinkedIn at the very start of the lunches.
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I I where I announced the project.
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The reason I included the link, I wanted people to know that this was a legitimate thing.
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I I wasn't looking to to scam them or sell them something or marry them or lure them into a cult.
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I I wanted this, I wanted to see them that it was a real thing.
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And I would then say, Do you want to meet for lunch, Deb?
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And 95% of people never replied.
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In the six years I had the 500 lunches, I think only three or four people replied to say no.
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If if so sorry, just to clarify, so 90% of people replied.
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No, 95% of people did not reply.
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Wow, that's extraordinary.
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And so so that that was the 95% of people said no, and the way they said no was by not replying.
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I I only ever had a handful of people reply to say no, but I did eventually get 500 people to say yes.
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And and what I discovered was the people who were saying yes to meeting a stranger turned out to be more open-minded, more positive, more proactive than the average person.
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So I I inadvertently filtered in higher quality people.
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And it took six years to get those 500 people on board.
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It did, yes.
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And at any point, why 500?
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Was there a point where you decided, you know what, I'm gonna do 200?
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Well, the the reason for the 500, when I read this book by Kaylee Chu, 100 Lunches with Strangers, I I decided I think from literally the first page, wow, this is amazing.
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I'm gonna have 100 lunches just like her.
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And uh that was the plan originally, but then halfway through the book, she mentioned that even though her goal was 100 lunches, that because those 100 were so enjoyable and beneficial, having got having gotten to 100, she was continuing to have lunch with strangers.
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And I thought, well, if that happened to her, it would happen to me also.
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And if I'm gonna get to 100 and keep going, why call it lunch with 100 strangers?
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Why not call it lunch with 500 strangers?
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Yeah, I love it, and and so that's interesting because that is a very big goal, and obviously it's I'm assuming it's unpaid work, so it's really a mission of a passion, and and it obviously, you know, not everything has to be paid to be rewarding, as we know.
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It could, you know, it clearly brought you on a number of levels out into a world that you needed to engage in.
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What did you learn from this process?
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And just one other question, which was so the the people that didn't respond, you were persistent and you kept with those people, or did you go and find new people after you didn't get response?
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I went and found new people.
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If someone didn't get back to me, I I respected that.
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And I didn't want to have to talk anyone into it.
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If they didn't want to meet me, that was fine.
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Now, to to go to your other question in terms of what I learned, I I learned so much.
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These 500 lunches turned out to be literally the best thing I've ever done in my life, and that's not hyperbole.
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It transformed my life.
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Well, one of the really interesting things I learned, Deb, was how insecure all of us are, which might seem kind of gloomy, but there's actually something quite positive about that because we're hyper-aware of our own insecurities, and we tend to think that that we're the only ones in that situation, and and we look at other people and they seem so confident and assured, and we wish we could be like them.
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And what what I discovered is I I'm maybe looking at you, Deb, wishing I could be like you because you're so confident.
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And what I don't realize is you've got the same insecurities as me, and you're looking at me thinking, look at that Nick guy, he looks so confident.
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I wish I could be like him.
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Once you realize that everyone's got insecurities, and when I say everyone, I not only met lots of different people, I met lots of different types of people, and I discovered it doesn't matter your age, background, profession, level of wealth or social status.
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We've all got these insecurities.
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And once you realize that, and once you realize people are paying much less attention to you than you think because they're too worried about their own insecurities, it doesn't magically make your insecurities disappear, but it does make it a lot easier to take action.
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Before the lunches, I would look at people who who seem to be confident, and I would think, oh, you know, they're they're born with that confidence, and that's why they're able to do these scary things.
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What I discovered is no one is born with confidence, and to the extent that people are confident, they become confident by doing scary things.
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So it's not like you become confident and then you do the scary things.
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Action precedes confidence.
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Yeah, I mean, for example, I mean, I'm a perfect example of that.
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I had never done a podcast in my life.
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I was a journalist at the age, I was a writer, and so I embarked on this very, you know, new at the time, five years ago, this new sphere of the podcast.
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At the time, there weren't many people doing it, and I had to really work out where how, what, where, everything from scratch.
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How do I produce?
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How do I, you know, all of that?
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And and actually it was the very fear of not being able to do it that actually drove me.
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And by pushing and pushing now 500 interviews later, it's been extraordinary and very much a very similar resonance to what you've outlined, which is the universality of our human experience, is very much showcased in this scope, not dissimilar to what you're saying, which is it's like having, even though I'm not having lunch with you, it's not dissimilar in concept.
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In that I sit and have these deep dive chats with everyone from you know the the most high profile famous person to the really not famous person, it's irrelevant.
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The universal human experience, as you say, of whether it's faith or fear or insecurity or lack of confidence, all of those things, there's a great comfort in talking to other people and saying that each person has their struggle.
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And you clearly saw that as you had lunch, just out of interest.
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Who pays for lunch?
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We we generally split the bill.
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Yeah, I was gonna say it's just a funny question.
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I'm thinking, right, somebody asks you for lunch.
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Like, what's the deal?
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And so actually, you you yes, you go Dutch and you split it because it's a shared experience, it's not a it's certainly not a date, it's certainly not a business lunch.
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So, you know, I suppose framing it was probably important too, because then you're sort of on equal ground, I'm assuming that's sort of the premise.
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Exactly.
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That that that was the thinking behind it.
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And a lot of people I I realized were a bit uncertain about the payment arrangements with my first few lunches.
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We'd get to the end of the lunch and there would be this awkward pause while they were wondering what was going to happen.
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So what I learned from that was if you just take the lead and you suggest to the other person, Deb, would you mind if we split the bill?
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They're often you often see this look of relief on their face, like, oh, okay, great.
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Now I know what's meant to happen.
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I find this really interesting too, because okay, do you go to the same place for lunch or do you go to different places?
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Different places.
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I I find out where the person is based and then I suggest we meet at a restaurant near their office.
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Close by.
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Yeah.
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So you make it easy for them.
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And do most people come into the lunch with trepidation?
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Do they have their guard up?
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Do they have a sense that they do they do they come in with their vulnerability or do they come in, or obviously there's a variable there too?
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Yeah, that's a really good question.
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And it took me a while to realize I was nervous in the first few lunches, but eventually it just becomes normalized.
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It took me a while to appreciate that while I was not nervous because I I had had 50 lunches, 100 lunches, 150 lunches, for the person I was with, this was their first lunch with a stranger.
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And I had to keep reminding myself that they were nervous.
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But generally, people came in with a willingness to be open and vulnerable.
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And I think that that's that goes back to what I said earlier about how 95% of people never got back to me.
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But the people who did get back to me, and again, I never tried to talk anyone into having lunch with me, the people who did say say yes were really open to the idea of meeting a stranger.
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And because it it wasn't coffee, which is I think framed as a short, super superficial interaction, it was lunch, which I think creates an expectation in people's mind that it's going to be a longer, more meaningful discussion.
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And people really opened up, and I was so touched by some of the things people would tell me.
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It might be 10, 20 minutes into the conversation where they might tell me about.
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I remember someone told me about a miscarriage his wife had had, and he said to me, Nikki, you're the you're only the third person we've told.
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I I'd other people tell me about being sexually assaulted, uh, about suicide attempts, about being addicted to drugs and and committing armed robberies to pay for it.
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I I hell had people tell me about conflict they were having with their spouse, with their children, all these incredibly intimate things.
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And and I was so touched and initially surprised that people were willing to open up in this way to someone they'd only just met.
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It's interesting because you that's a really interesting reflection because that you're obviously holding a safe space and you set up a tone of trust, which is not always easy to do, particularly with strangers, when you first meet someone, and the fact that in time they felt that comfort with you must have been quite reassuring for you.
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You're not a therapist, you're not in a therapy situation which is, you know, got its other lens, which is, you know, somebody with trained structures to deal or to treat or to respond.
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So your role was to just listen, connect, and be present for that person, I'm assuming.
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Yeah, you've hit the nail on the head.
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I I think that's what made people feel comfortable, that they could see that I was really listening to them and really taking what they said seriously.
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And I was valuing their words and I was looking to establish some sort of connection.
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And I think that gave people a feeling of safety and felt like they could open up to me.
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And do you think that this is something?
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I mean, it's like a social experiment of sorts, but it is, as I mentioned earlier, it's sort of old school.
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It's how really we all meet and met people for many and still do on socials.
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It's a is obviously another platform that people can engage with strangers.
00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:50.240
Did you ever at any point feel fear or in any way under threat yourself?
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:58.319
So if you I mean, you because you can get people who you know might be somewhat on the cusp of themselves, you just don't know what you're going to get.
00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:02.000
Did you have moments where you felt threatened or fearful?
00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:04.480
I I I I never felt physically threatened.
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:10.400
I think that that's maybe because I'm a man and also we would meet in public places.
00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:23.839
To begin with, there was maybe you might call it say an emotional threat in that I I was anxious and nervous with the early launches, although that faded in in time, but but there was never any physical threat.
00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:28.000
And I think to your point though, I do think that's relevant.
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:34.640
If this was a woman doing this, there would be much more, I think it would be judged much more harshly.
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:42.240
Although you've mentioned the Melbourne girl who started this process, obviously she embarked on that and she'll have her own version of what she experienced.
00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:51.039
But I can't help but reflect and think, you know, because you're meeting physically and you're in the actual physical space with someone, you have to then have transport back and forth.
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:53.680
That's the first thing that crosses my mind as a woman, right?
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:59.599
Like if I was meeting a stranger, how you know, safety getting to and from.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:05.039
All of that about did any of that cross your mind, or because you're a male, do you think that was a different experience?
00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:07.920
I I I think a different experience because I was a male.
00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:12.160
Uh women, of course, uh unfortunately just have to be more security conscious.
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:13.680
That's the world we live in.
00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:23.200
Um but also we would meet in many of the lunches happened in in the in the city, a very busy part of town.
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:32.400
And so I think it it it was probably unlikely that the women were going to feel physically unsafe given how many people there were around them.
00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:34.160
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:39.039
Interestingly, so topics of discussion, did you pre-prepare them?
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:43.039
Did you go organic in terms of when you sat down at the lunch?
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:50.079
How did you deal with religion and politics, for example, which would have been a very interesting, either a sidebar or a main event?
00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:52.480
It depends on how you manage that, I wonder.
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:53.680
Ah, okay.
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:57.200
Well, I I would partly prepare.
00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:00.079
There was always a reason why I wanted to meet the person.
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:07.039
There might be something about their job that intrigued me, or they might be might have been pursuing a project that I was really interested in.
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:12.000
And so, whatever the reason was, I would tend to ask them lots of questions about that thing.
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:13.279
It really interested me.
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:17.759
And they would tend to ask me questions about the lunches, like why are you doing this?
00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:18.640
Who have you met?
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:20.000
What have you learned?
00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:24.240
And and that was often how the lunches started.
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:27.119
But then they would go off in all sorts of different directions.
00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:32.319
And we would discuss really personal things that we we might discuss religion or politics.
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:40.400
I think when religion and politics came up, both parties tended to do it quite delicately.
00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:44.240
Neither party wanted to offend the other one.
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:49.039
But there wasn't that much discussion about religion or politics.
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:56.640
We were far more likely to discuss what was happening in our professional lives and our personal lives and our families.
00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:59.279
They were the most common topics of discussion.
00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:11.039
And another, funnily enough, really common topic which you've raised, Deb, was the idea that there's been an increase of loneliness, people's social skills are declining.
00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:13.839
This was something that kept coming up again and again in the lunches.
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:17.759
Well, I've interviewed actually another woman who was talking about that.
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:20.000
She's actually she works in urban planning.
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:29.200
She was saying it's so fundamentally problematic because unless the way we build cities, and she she specializes in this area, is so interesting.
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:33.039
She's written a book called Finding Home, and it was so interesting because she talks to this.
00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:43.920
And she's saying that literally where we build our homes and and and making sure that people can have access to certain amenities and transport, etc., all affects the loneliness epidemic.
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:48.079
So I think that's just another factor that is impacting.
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:57.599
But it sounds to me as if the people that signed up with you or came on board were open to this discussion about isolation, needing to connect.
00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:10.240
And I'm I'm also saying I've been reading a few articles saying there's a lot of reading parties people are doing now, where everyone just goes and reads and hangs out in a cafe and reads books and feels that they just don't want to be alone.
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:21.200
And as we know, cinemas, which I'm a big film buff, cinemas, the whole idea is you have this universal experience in a cinema with a whole lot of other people to that what you're watching.
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:26.000
But when you're at home watching it on Netflix, you have this very solitary response.
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:31.279
So there's all these nuances of change that we are just surreptitiously experiencing.
00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:40.799
We don't realize, you know, there's nothing better than going to the cinema with 200 people and everyone's walking in and you're all gonna have this combined experience.
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:42.000
That's all part of it.
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:50.559
And I think that what you've tapped into is it sounds like there are quite a few people expressing that isolation and sense of loneliness.
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:52.240
Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:52.400 --> 00:26:01.839
I I think people increasingly noticing this and are increasingly concerned, and quite a few people express concern for their children.
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:09.839
They would mention, you know, my my daughter or my son, they're uh always on their devices that they don't socialise as much as we do.
00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:12.480
I I I'm worried about their social skills.
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:16.079
This was something that people were really concerned about with their children.
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:23.759
And again, I I know I've made the point, but but the people I was meeting, these tended to be a lot more positive, open-minded, proactive people.
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:31.279
And I I think therefore they they definitely had above average social skills, the people I was meeting.
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:37.920
And I think they were far more likely to reflect on these issues than maybe the average person.
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:42.799
And so for you personally, how's your introversion going?
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:46.720
Is it you're just introverted?
00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:49.920
No, I'm still an introvert.
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:57.039
I still like to be at home on my own with a good book and a cup of tea, but now I'm an introvert and I now feel comfortable meeting strangers.
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:03.279
Previously, I was terrified if I had to go to a networking event or a party where I didn't know anyone.
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:06.319
I and I would do everything to avoid those situations.
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:18.400
Now I like to be at home on my own and I enjoy going to networking events and I enjoy meeting new people and I enjoy going to social gatherings where I don't know anyone and talking to new people.
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:23.519
And then I go home and as an introvert, I recharge by being alone.
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:27.200
So I'm still the same person, but I now exhibit different behaviors.
00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:30.319
And also they're definitely not mutually exclusive.
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:40.000
You know, I mean, someone can be very sociable or very engaged, and they can still have that absolute need to withdraw, to, as you say, recharge and reboot.
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:42.640
Is I mean, you know, it's not an either-or.
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:44.240
You can be a bit of both.
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:49.680
And it sounds like you've tapped another part of yourself, and it seems that you've tapped that somewhat later in life.
00:27:49.759 --> 00:28:04.480
I don't know if that was something you experienced when you were younger, but I think you've you've certainly accessed a part of yourself, but also given others the platform to access that in themselves, maybe face their own fear of meeting a stranger.
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:16.000
Yeah, a lot of the people I met told me that they were introverts or they could be uncomfortable in social situations, they were nervous meeting strangers.
00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:19.119
Uh, quite a few of them said, Oh, you're so brave for doing this, Nick.
00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:21.200
So many of them told me that.
00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:26.319
So, so yeah, uh it's definitely something that that a lot of people are thinking about.
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:43.440
And I think it's reassuring to know that uh for for those people who who maybe are introverts or who maybe do feel uncomfortable in social situations, I think it can be reassuring to know there are lots of other people who are in the same boat as you.
00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:44.880
Yeah, I think that's true.
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:47.519
Once again, back to that universal experience.
00:28:47.839 --> 00:29:11.279
And just finally, how did you, and obviously I'm not familiar with your business or your romantic perspective, but how did you if if let's say there was an opportunity business-wise or romance-wise, that you encountered as one would in life, how did you did you sec sort of segment that out or did you just ignore it or did it not happen?
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:21.119
Either of I I I didn't ask any of the people I met to become clients, but 12 of them asked me if if they could work with my business.
00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:25.680
So a dozen of the people I had lunch with ended up becoming clients, which I was grateful for.
00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:29.519
Funnily enough, I I did ask one woman out.
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:31.759
She she said, Well, well, thank you, Nick.
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:34.799
I I'd say yes, but I'm actually in a relationship with someone.
00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:40.559
And I had two women in different circumstances ask me out, but for different reasons.
00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:44.079
They were both wonderful, amazing women, but for different reasons, I said no.
00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:50.240
And when you say clients, what would what what is the nature of what you what your work is?
00:29:50.720 --> 00:30:00.640
The the business I started, which I still have, it was a copywriting agency and it was writing marketing content for finance and property companies.
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:04.880
And I I mentioned earlier that many of the people I met couldn't have been clients.
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:10.640
If they were if if they worked outside of finance and property, they they couldn't have been clients.
00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:15.119
If they worked for, I don't know, the government or not-for-profit, they couldn't have been clients.
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:19.680
If they were an employee in someone else's business, they couldn't have been clients anyway.
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:22.960
And and that didn't bother me at all because I wasn't doing it to generate business.
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:25.680
For that purpose, yeah, that makes complete sense.
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:29.839
And so it sounds like you've been on quite the journey, and the book is great.
00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:32.960
And I suggest people go out and I love it.
00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:43.599
It's called the 500 Lunches Effect, and I think it's a very powerful insight into how important actually strangers are in our lives.
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:49.519
And you know what they often say that you'll tell a stranger a deep dark secret before you'll tell somebody close, right?
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:52.799
It sounds like you've had that experience on this journey somewhat.
00:30:52.960 --> 00:31:04.240
People have shared some very intimate things, and with that goes an incredible sense of trust and kudos to you for creating this safe space for each other.
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:06.400
Well, well, thank you so much, Deb.
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:09.200
I I I know I said it earlier, I'll say it again.
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:11.599
This has been literally the best thing I've ever done in my life.
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:14.160
It really has transformed my life in so many ways.
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:17.680
And I'm so grateful to the people I met.
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:20.240
I'm grateful to them for wanting to meet me.
00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:25.759
I'm grateful to them for the way they opened up to me, and I'm grateful for them for all the things they taught me.
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:31.599
And then I'm grateful to them for the ongoing friendship and support they've provided me with in the years since.
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:33.039
Well, congratulations.
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:34.319
I think it's wonderful.
00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:35.359
Lovely to meet you.
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:38.000
Thanks for joining us on the What I've Learned Podcast.
00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:39.039
Thanks, Deb.
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:40.319
Great chat.
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:45.680
Well, thank you for joining us on the What I've Learned Podcast.
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:56.240
I hope you enjoyed that interview because we are so privileged to have a wonderful platform where guests come on and share lessons learned, rivers crossed, mountains climbed.
00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:02.720
We love our shared humanity, and we are so grateful to have such a beautiful community.
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:09.519
So remember to stay curious, kind, and connected, and we'll see you next time at the What I've Learned Podcast.
00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:18.320
Well, despite being a lifelong introvert, Nick Bendel has set himself the extraordinary challenge to have lunch with 500 complete strangers.
00:00:18.559 --> 00:00:27.920
What began as a personal experiment to overcome his own hesitation became a powerful lesson in how confidence and meaningful relationships are built.
00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:42.719
Drawing on hundreds of conversations with entrepreneurs, artists, politicians, executives, academics, and community leaders, Nick argues that most people aren't held back by a lack of talent or ambition, but by the fear of making the first move.
00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:56.560
His book introduces the concept of social courage, which is the willingness to take small interpersonal risks before you feel completely ready, and shows how simple conversations can open doors, change careers and reshape lives.
00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:15.519
And shows how simple conversations can open doors, change careers, and reshape lives.
00:01:16.079 --> 00:01:18.879
So, Nick, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:21.280
Oh, great to be here, Deb.
00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:30.640
Well, I think this is a great experiment of sorts, which has turned out, as you've just been chatting to me and letting me know, to have created this whole new network for you.
00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:33.920
Tell me a little bit about who you had lunch with yesterday and today.
00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:43.519
Well, I did a project, as you know, where I had lunch with 500 strangers and I became good friends with with quite a few of the people I met.
00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:48.640
And on any given day, I'm always communicating with at least one person.
00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:57.200
Yesterday I had lunch with one of the early one of the in fact, the ninth person I met on those 500 lunches.
00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:00.799
This morning I had breakfast with the 361st person I met.
00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:05.920
They've all got like their numbers, you know, where they sit in the in the journey, which is interesting.
00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:06.640
They did.
00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:17.199
And in fact, also I noticed last week that another one of the people I met, I noticed that her LinkedIn profile had changed, which surprised me because she owns business.
00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:20.080
And so I called her just to find out what was going on.
00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:25.919
And she mentioned that she was getting a bit sick of that business and was thinking about applying for a corporate job.
00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:31.360
And she's someone who's incredibly smart and skilled and got a great track record.
00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:37.199
And I said to her, Well, let me know what sort of roles you're looking for, and I can contact a few people on your behalf.
00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:46.000
So I actually texted six people earlier today, funnily enough, all of whom I had lunch with on her behalf just to see if they were looking for someone like her.
00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:59.520
And what a what a wonderful, I mean, really, it's it's sort of old school in a sense that this is how what, you know, I've been reading quite a bit about this issue that people used to go up to the bank, they used to go to the village, you know.
00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:03.680
I mean, there's still it's coming back a bit now because people are sick of being so isolated.
00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:15.520
But it seems that you're tapping quite a critical issue that is affecting a lot of people, which is theoretically, one could spend their day completely remote, isolated, and not connected.
00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:18.800
You know, even people can order all their food online.
00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:25.680
And I think this is an issue for young people, but also for older people and even for the elderly, where that disconnect happens.
00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:35.199
And I think this is very much what you're reflecting in this book, which is we have to sort of put ourselves out there in order to connect and to find that.
00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:36.879
That's a perfect example.
00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:47.280
Yeah, I really like the point you made about how with our increasingly technological world, we're actually being pushed further and further away from that.
00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:58.479
In the past, you had all these social interactions naturally, where whether you wanted them or not, but now you can very easily opt out of human connection.
00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:05.039
And then there are other people who don't want to opt out, but they don't have the skills or the opportunities.
00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:10.000
We now go out of our way to add human connection to our lives.
00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:35.600
And I also think that the people who who do that more often and who therefore feel most comfortable doing it, and who have the the strongest and deepest networks are going to increasingly have an advantage in in this AI-driven world where where technical skills no longer hold the currency that they once did in the workforce.
00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:45.279
Yeah, because those fundamental human connections and the capacity to listen and therefore evolve as part of that.
00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:47.360
That's actually what this podcast very much is.
00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:49.759
It's very much listen and learn and connect.
00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:52.480
And it's actually proved very effectively.
00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:56.879
While we're using technology to connect, we're actually it's so critical.
00:04:56.959 --> 00:04:59.920
We've created this whole community, which is not where it started.
00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:02.959
It's not a dissimilar concept, really, to what you've done.
00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:10.319
So the 500 lunches, I've done like 500 interviews here, and it's the same, it's just so rewarding.
00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:15.839
Tell me where yours started and and what it came from that you decided to go on this journey.
00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:20.160
What's interesting uh about my journey, Deb, I'm an introvert.
00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:24.399
I my idea of a good time is staying at home on my own with a cup of tea and a good book.
00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:31.120
And so having lunch with 500 strangers, that was very much against my natural inclinations.
00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:47.040
The the reason I I decided to have these lunches, I'd recently started a business and I was obsessed with making this business succeed, but I was also quite anxious because I'd never had a business and I didn't know what I needed to do to make a business succeed.
00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:59.519
And I was wrestling with this dilemma for a few months, and eventually an idea started taking shape in my mind, which was if I was going to succeed with business, I had to start acting differently.
00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:09.680
I I thought if I was, if I continued to be that person who just kind of stayed at home on his own, that sort of person would struggle to meet potential clients and struggle to make sales.
00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:14.240
It occurred to me, Deb, that I needed to put myself out there, which was a scary prospect.
00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:21.120
I needed to really improve my social skills, I needed to strengthen my mindset, I needed to build a great network.
00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:27.120
I thought if I did those things, I would have the opportunity to build a successful business.
00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:32.639
And funnily enough, as those ideas were taking shape in my mind, a book got published.
00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:36.879
This was in 2019 called 100 Lunches with Strangers.
00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:40.399
I heard about it just before it was released.
00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:42.000
And I thought that's really interesting.
00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:43.199
I bought a copy of the book.
00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:49.680
The author, Kaylee Chu, writes about her experience having lunch with 100 strangers in her hometown of Melbourne.
00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:51.360
And I thought that is such a good idea.
00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:53.040
I'm going to steal the idea.
00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:56.720
But rather than having 100 lunches, I'll have 500.
00:06:56.800 --> 00:06:58.800
And I actually contacted the author, Kaylee.
00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:00.240
I'm based in Sydney, yeah.
00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:02.800
And I said to her, I've just read your book.
00:07:02.879 --> 00:07:03.839
I loved it.
00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:07.360
You've inspired me to have lunch with 500 strangers, Kaylee.
00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:10.000
Would you pay me the honor of being my very first lunch?
00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:18.079
I love on August 27, 2019, I flew to Melbourne to have lunch with her, and then I flew back to Sydney on the same day.
00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:19.680
That was the first lunch.
00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:24.800
And then six years later in August 2025, I had my 500th lunch.
00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:40.560
I think that's great too, the way that by connecting with her, rather than like that in itself is quite a beautiful way to start because you had her blessing and clearly she had inspired you, which was, I suppose, the purpose of her book was to actually provide that inspiration.
00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:42.560
Yeah, that's absolutely right.
00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:47.839
That that is one of the reasons she wrote her book and we got on really well and we've remained friends since.
00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:53.680
And she's been incredibly supportive of me having these lunches, and she's a very generous person.
00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:58.879
So I was really honored that she wanted to meet and glad we were able to build that relationship.
00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:04.480
And the other thing that I find quite interesting is how did you choose who you were going to have lunch with?
00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:10.000
So originally it started as a business lens, but it sounds like it morphed into a lot more than that.
00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:22.240
Yes, that you've identified something really important there because even though I was doing it because I wanted to create a successful business, I never tried to turn any of the people I met into clients.
00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:25.920
And many of the people I met couldn't have been clients anyway.
00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:32.720
I very deliberately wanted to meet people of all different ages, backgrounds, professions, all different walks of life.
00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:45.039
My theory was that if I was meeting all these different people, I would be exposed to new ideas, new conversations, new ways of thinking, and I would learn so much more.
00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:49.440
So that's what that's the way I approach it.
00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:56.159
I to begin with, everyone, I wasn't too selective in who I was meeting because everyone was new.
00:08:56.320 --> 00:09:04.399
But once I'd started, once I'd met quite a few people, I I became more selective because I didn't want to keep meeting the same types of people.
00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:18.080
And so I would actively search for people who had achieved some sort of very interesting success or were working on some sort of unusual project, something that that differentiated them in some way from the people I'd already met.
00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:24.000
And did you find that so what was your pitch to have lunch with people, random strangers?
00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:27.519
How did you how did you couch the the pitch to them?
00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:39.840
I I would call it an invitation rather than a pitch because I actually very deliberately, I never tried to talk anyone into it because I thought I I don't want them to be cajoled to be cajoled into meeting me.
00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:41.840
I I want them to feel like it's a good idea.
00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:46.080
So I would just contact them, I would explain, hi Deb, my name's Nick.
00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:55.440
I'm doing this project where I'm having lunch with 500 strangers, and I would include a link to an article I'd published on LinkedIn at the very start of the lunches.
00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:57.840
I I where I announced the project.
00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:03.519
The reason I included the link, I wanted people to know that this was a legitimate thing.
00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:10.240
I I wasn't looking to to scam them or sell them something or marry them or lure them into a cult.
00:10:10.399 --> 00:10:14.480
I I wanted this, I wanted to see them that it was a real thing.
00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:17.679
And I would then say, Do you want to meet for lunch, Deb?
00:10:17.919 --> 00:10:21.039
And 95% of people never replied.
00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:27.679
In the six years I had the 500 lunches, I think only three or four people replied to say no.
00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:32.639
If if so sorry, just to clarify, so 90% of people replied.
00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:35.679
No, 95% of people did not reply.
00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:37.759
Wow, that's extraordinary.
00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:43.120
And so so that that was the 95% of people said no, and the way they said no was by not replying.
00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:50.240
I I only ever had a handful of people reply to say no, but I did eventually get 500 people to say yes.
00:10:50.320 --> 00:11:01.039
And and what I discovered was the people who were saying yes to meeting a stranger turned out to be more open-minded, more positive, more proactive than the average person.
00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:05.759
So I I inadvertently filtered in higher quality people.
00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:09.759
And it took six years to get those 500 people on board.
00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:11.279
It did, yes.
00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:13.519
And at any point, why 500?
00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:17.840
Was there a point where you decided, you know what, I'm gonna do 200?
00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:28.720
Well, the the reason for the 500, when I read this book by Kaylee Chu, 100 Lunches with Strangers, I I decided I think from literally the first page, wow, this is amazing.
00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:31.679
I'm gonna have 100 lunches just like her.
00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:48.320
And uh that was the plan originally, but then halfway through the book, she mentioned that even though her goal was 100 lunches, that because those 100 were so enjoyable and beneficial, having got having gotten to 100, she was continuing to have lunch with strangers.
00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:52.000
And I thought, well, if that happened to her, it would happen to me also.
00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:57.360
And if I'm gonna get to 100 and keep going, why call it lunch with 100 strangers?
00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:00.080
Why not call it lunch with 500 strangers?
00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:17.200
Yeah, I love it, and and so that's interesting because that is a very big goal, and obviously it's I'm assuming it's unpaid work, so it's really a mission of a passion, and and it obviously, you know, not everything has to be paid to be rewarding, as we know.
00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:24.399
It could, you know, it clearly brought you on a number of levels out into a world that you needed to engage in.
00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:27.120
What did you learn from this process?
00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:38.080
And just one other question, which was so the the people that didn't respond, you were persistent and you kept with those people, or did you go and find new people after you didn't get response?
00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:39.679
I went and found new people.
00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:42.080
If someone didn't get back to me, I I respected that.
00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:45.279
And I didn't want to have to talk anyone into it.
00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:47.679
If they didn't want to meet me, that was fine.
00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:54.240
Now, to to go to your other question in terms of what I learned, I I learned so much.
00:12:54.799 --> 00:13:00.559
These 500 lunches turned out to be literally the best thing I've ever done in my life, and that's not hyperbole.
00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:02.639
It transformed my life.
00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:30.320
Well, one of the really interesting things I learned, Deb, was how insecure all of us are, which might seem kind of gloomy, but there's actually something quite positive about that because we're hyper-aware of our own insecurities, and we tend to think that that we're the only ones in that situation, and and we look at other people and they seem so confident and assured, and we wish we could be like them.
00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:36.879
And what what I discovered is I I'm maybe looking at you, Deb, wishing I could be like you because you're so confident.
00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:43.279
And what I don't realize is you've got the same insecurities as me, and you're looking at me thinking, look at that Nick guy, he looks so confident.
00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:44.559
I wish I could be like him.
00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:59.440
Once you realize that everyone's got insecurities, and when I say everyone, I not only met lots of different people, I met lots of different types of people, and I discovered it doesn't matter your age, background, profession, level of wealth or social status.
00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:01.360
We've all got these insecurities.
00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:17.840
And once you realize that, and once you realize people are paying much less attention to you than you think because they're too worried about their own insecurities, it doesn't magically make your insecurities disappear, but it does make it a lot easier to take action.
00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:28.480
Before the lunches, I would look at people who who seem to be confident, and I would think, oh, you know, they're they're born with that confidence, and that's why they're able to do these scary things.
00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:37.360
What I discovered is no one is born with confidence, and to the extent that people are confident, they become confident by doing scary things.
00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:41.759
So it's not like you become confident and then you do the scary things.
00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:43.840
Action precedes confidence.
00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:47.360
Yeah, I mean, for example, I mean, I'm a perfect example of that.
00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:49.360
I had never done a podcast in my life.
00:14:49.519 --> 00:15:00.960
I was a journalist at the age, I was a writer, and so I embarked on this very, you know, new at the time, five years ago, this new sphere of the podcast.
00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:08.960
At the time, there weren't many people doing it, and I had to really work out where how, what, where, everything from scratch.
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:10.080
How do I produce?
00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:11.840
How do I, you know, all of that?
00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:18.639
And and actually it was the very fear of not being able to do it that actually drove me.
00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:40.799
And by pushing and pushing now 500 interviews later, it's been extraordinary and very much a very similar resonance to what you've outlined, which is the universality of our human experience, is very much showcased in this scope, not dissimilar to what you're saying, which is it's like having, even though I'm not having lunch with you, it's not dissimilar in concept.
00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:50.080
In that I sit and have these deep dive chats with everyone from you know the the most high profile famous person to the really not famous person, it's irrelevant.
00:15:50.399 --> 00:16:04.480
The universal human experience, as you say, of whether it's faith or fear or insecurity or lack of confidence, all of those things, there's a great comfort in talking to other people and saying that each person has their struggle.
00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:07.440
And you clearly saw that as you had lunch, just out of interest.
00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:08.480
Who pays for lunch?
00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:12.480
We we generally split the bill.
00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:14.720
Yeah, I was gonna say it's just a funny question.
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:17.519
I'm thinking, right, somebody asks you for lunch.
00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:18.559
Like, what's the deal?
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:28.879
And so actually, you you yes, you go Dutch and you split it because it's a shared experience, it's not a it's certainly not a date, it's certainly not a business lunch.
00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:37.759
So, you know, I suppose framing it was probably important too, because then you're sort of on equal ground, I'm assuming that's sort of the premise.
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:39.360
Exactly.
00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:41.759
That that that was the thinking behind it.
00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:48.639
And a lot of people I I realized were a bit uncertain about the payment arrangements with my first few lunches.
00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:53.360
We'd get to the end of the lunch and there would be this awkward pause while they were wondering what was going to happen.
00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:59.360
So what I learned from that was if you just take the lead and you suggest to the other person, Deb, would you mind if we split the bill?
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:02.960
They're often you often see this look of relief on their face, like, oh, okay, great.
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:04.799
Now I know what's meant to happen.
00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:10.559
I find this really interesting too, because okay, do you go to the same place for lunch or do you go to different places?
00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:12.000
Different places.
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:18.000
I I find out where the person is based and then I suggest we meet at a restaurant near their office.
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:18.720
Close by.
00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:18.960
Yeah.
00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:20.799
So you make it easy for them.
00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:26.720
And do most people come into the lunch with trepidation?
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:28.799
Do they have their guard up?
00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:35.920
Do they have a sense that they do they do they come in with their vulnerability or do they come in, or obviously there's a variable there too?
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:37.920
Yeah, that's a really good question.
00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:43.680
And it took me a while to realize I was nervous in the first few lunches, but eventually it just becomes normalized.
00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:54.000
It took me a while to appreciate that while I was not nervous because I I had had 50 lunches, 100 lunches, 150 lunches, for the person I was with, this was their first lunch with a stranger.
00:17:54.079 --> 00:17:57.119
And I had to keep reminding myself that they were nervous.
00:17:57.440 --> 00:18:03.680
But generally, people came in with a willingness to be open and vulnerable.
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:09.759
And I think that that's that goes back to what I said earlier about how 95% of people never got back to me.
00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:19.359
But the people who did get back to me, and again, I never tried to talk anyone into having lunch with me, the people who did say say yes were really open to the idea of meeting a stranger.
00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:34.240
And because it it wasn't coffee, which is I think framed as a short, super superficial interaction, it was lunch, which I think creates an expectation in people's mind that it's going to be a longer, more meaningful discussion.
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:42.720
And people really opened up, and I was so touched by some of the things people would tell me.
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:48.480
It might be 10, 20 minutes into the conversation where they might tell me about.
00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:56.160
I remember someone told me about a miscarriage his wife had had, and he said to me, Nikki, you're the you're only the third person we've told.
00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:07.839
I I'd other people tell me about being sexually assaulted, uh, about suicide attempts, about being addicted to drugs and and committing armed robberies to pay for it.
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:15.200
I I hell had people tell me about conflict they were having with their spouse, with their children, all these incredibly intimate things.
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:23.519
And and I was so touched and initially surprised that people were willing to open up in this way to someone they'd only just met.
00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:44.079
It's interesting because you that's a really interesting reflection because that you're obviously holding a safe space and you set up a tone of trust, which is not always easy to do, particularly with strangers, when you first meet someone, and the fact that in time they felt that comfort with you must have been quite reassuring for you.
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:55.119
You're not a therapist, you're not in a therapy situation which is, you know, got its other lens, which is, you know, somebody with trained structures to deal or to treat or to respond.
00:19:55.279 --> 00:20:01.200
So your role was to just listen, connect, and be present for that person, I'm assuming.
00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:03.359
Yeah, you've hit the nail on the head.
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:12.720
I I think that's what made people feel comfortable, that they could see that I was really listening to them and really taking what they said seriously.
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:17.759
And I was valuing their words and I was looking to establish some sort of connection.
00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:23.599
And I think that gave people a feeling of safety and felt like they could open up to me.
00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:27.039
And do you think that this is something?
00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:32.319
I mean, it's like a social experiment of sorts, but it is, as I mentioned earlier, it's sort of old school.
00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:38.559
It's how really we all meet and met people for many and still do on socials.
00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:44.240
It's a is obviously another platform that people can engage with strangers.
00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:50.240
Did you ever at any point feel fear or in any way under threat yourself?
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:58.319
So if you I mean, you because you can get people who you know might be somewhat on the cusp of themselves, you just don't know what you're going to get.
00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:02.000
Did you have moments where you felt threatened or fearful?
00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:04.480
I I I I never felt physically threatened.
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:10.400
I think that that's maybe because I'm a man and also we would meet in public places.
00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:23.839
To begin with, there was maybe you might call it say an emotional threat in that I I was anxious and nervous with the early launches, although that faded in in time, but but there was never any physical threat.
00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:28.000
And I think to your point though, I do think that's relevant.
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:34.640
If this was a woman doing this, there would be much more, I think it would be judged much more harshly.
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:42.240
Although you've mentioned the Melbourne girl who started this process, obviously she embarked on that and she'll have her own version of what she experienced.
00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:51.039
But I can't help but reflect and think, you know, because you're meeting physically and you're in the actual physical space with someone, you have to then have transport back and forth.
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:53.680
That's the first thing that crosses my mind as a woman, right?
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:59.599
Like if I was meeting a stranger, how you know, safety getting to and from.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:05.039
All of that about did any of that cross your mind, or because you're a male, do you think that was a different experience?
00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:07.920
I I I think a different experience because I was a male.
00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:12.160
Uh women, of course, uh unfortunately just have to be more security conscious.
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:13.680
That's the world we live in.
00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:23.200
Um but also we would meet in many of the lunches happened in in the in the city, a very busy part of town.
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:32.400
And so I think it it it was probably unlikely that the women were going to feel physically unsafe given how many people there were around them.
00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:34.160
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:39.039
Interestingly, so topics of discussion, did you pre-prepare them?
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:43.039
Did you go organic in terms of when you sat down at the lunch?
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:50.079
How did you deal with religion and politics, for example, which would have been a very interesting, either a sidebar or a main event?
00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:52.480
It depends on how you manage that, I wonder.
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:53.680
Ah, okay.
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:57.200
Well, I I would partly prepare.
00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:00.079
There was always a reason why I wanted to meet the person.
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:07.039
There might be something about their job that intrigued me, or they might be might have been pursuing a project that I was really interested in.
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:12.000
And so, whatever the reason was, I would tend to ask them lots of questions about that thing.
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:13.279
It really interested me.
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:17.759
And they would tend to ask me questions about the lunches, like why are you doing this?
00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:18.640
Who have you met?
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:20.000
What have you learned?
00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:24.240
And and that was often how the lunches started.
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:27.119
But then they would go off in all sorts of different directions.
00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:32.319
And we would discuss really personal things that we we might discuss religion or politics.
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:40.400
I think when religion and politics came up, both parties tended to do it quite delicately.
00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:44.240
Neither party wanted to offend the other one.
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:49.039
But there wasn't that much discussion about religion or politics.
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:56.640
We were far more likely to discuss what was happening in our professional lives and our personal lives and our families.
00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:59.279
They were the most common topics of discussion.
00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:11.039
And another, funnily enough, really common topic which you've raised, Deb, was the idea that there's been an increase of loneliness, people's social skills are declining.
00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:13.839
This was something that kept coming up again and again in the lunches.
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:17.759
Well, I've interviewed actually another woman who was talking about that.
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:20.000
She's actually she works in urban planning.
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:29.200
She was saying it's so fundamentally problematic because unless the way we build cities, and she she specializes in this area, is so interesting.
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:33.039
She's written a book called Finding Home, and it was so interesting because she talks to this.
00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:43.920
And she's saying that literally where we build our homes and and and making sure that people can have access to certain amenities and transport, etc., all affects the loneliness epidemic.
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:48.079
So I think that's just another factor that is impacting.
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:57.599
But it sounds to me as if the people that signed up with you or came on board were open to this discussion about isolation, needing to connect.
00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:10.240
And I'm I'm also saying I've been reading a few articles saying there's a lot of reading parties people are doing now, where everyone just goes and reads and hangs out in a cafe and reads books and feels that they just don't want to be alone.
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:21.200
And as we know, cinemas, which I'm a big film buff, cinemas, the whole idea is you have this universal experience in a cinema with a whole lot of other people to that what you're watching.
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:26.000
But when you're at home watching it on Netflix, you have this very solitary response.
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:31.279
So there's all these nuances of change that we are just surreptitiously experiencing.
00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:40.799
We don't realize, you know, there's nothing better than going to the cinema with 200 people and everyone's walking in and you're all gonna have this combined experience.
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:42.000
That's all part of it.
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:50.559
And I think that what you've tapped into is it sounds like there are quite a few people expressing that isolation and sense of loneliness.
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:52.240
Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:52.400 --> 00:26:01.839
I I think people increasingly noticing this and are increasingly concerned, and quite a few people express concern for their children.
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:09.839
They would mention, you know, my my daughter or my son, they're uh always on their devices that they don't socialise as much as we do.
00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:12.480
I I I'm worried about their social skills.
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:16.079
This was something that people were really concerned about with their children.
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:23.759
And again, I I know I've made the point, but but the people I was meeting, these tended to be a lot more positive, open-minded, proactive people.
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:31.279
And I I think therefore they they definitely had above average social skills, the people I was meeting.
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:37.920
And I think they were far more likely to reflect on these issues than maybe the average person.
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:42.799
And so for you personally, how's your introversion going?
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:46.720
Is it you're just introverted?
00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:49.920
No, I'm still an introvert.
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:57.039
I still like to be at home on my own with a good book and a cup of tea, but now I'm an introvert and I now feel comfortable meeting strangers.
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:03.279
Previously, I was terrified if I had to go to a networking event or a party where I didn't know anyone.
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:06.319
I and I would do everything to avoid those situations.
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:18.400
Now I like to be at home on my own and I enjoy going to networking events and I enjoy meeting new people and I enjoy going to social gatherings where I don't know anyone and talking to new people.
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:23.519
And then I go home and as an introvert, I recharge by being alone.
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:27.200
So I'm still the same person, but I now exhibit different behaviors.
00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:30.319
And also they're definitely not mutually exclusive.
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:40.000
You know, I mean, someone can be very sociable or very engaged, and they can still have that absolute need to withdraw, to, as you say, recharge and reboot.
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:42.640
Is I mean, you know, it's not an either-or.
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:44.240
You can be a bit of both.
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:49.680
And it sounds like you've tapped another part of yourself, and it seems that you've tapped that somewhat later in life.
00:27:49.759 --> 00:28:04.480
I don't know if that was something you experienced when you were younger, but I think you've you've certainly accessed a part of yourself, but also given others the platform to access that in themselves, maybe face their own fear of meeting a stranger.
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:16.000
Yeah, a lot of the people I met told me that they were introverts or they could be uncomfortable in social situations, they were nervous meeting strangers.
00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:19.119
Uh, quite a few of them said, Oh, you're so brave for doing this, Nick.
00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:21.200
So many of them told me that.
00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:26.319
So, so yeah, uh it's definitely something that that a lot of people are thinking about.
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:43.440
And I think it's reassuring to know that uh for for those people who who maybe are introverts or who maybe do feel uncomfortable in social situations, I think it can be reassuring to know there are lots of other people who are in the same boat as you.
00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:44.880
Yeah, I think that's true.
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:47.519
Once again, back to that universal experience.
00:28:47.839 --> 00:29:11.279
And just finally, how did you, and obviously I'm not familiar with your business or your romantic perspective, but how did you if if let's say there was an opportunity business-wise or romance-wise, that you encountered as one would in life, how did you did you sec sort of segment that out or did you just ignore it or did it not happen?
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:21.119
Either of I I I didn't ask any of the people I met to become clients, but 12 of them asked me if if they could work with my business.
00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:25.680
So a dozen of the people I had lunch with ended up becoming clients, which I was grateful for.
00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:29.519
Funnily enough, I I did ask one woman out.
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:31.759
She she said, Well, well, thank you, Nick.
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:34.799
I I'd say yes, but I'm actually in a relationship with someone.
00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:40.559
And I had two women in different circumstances ask me out, but for different reasons.
00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:44.079
They were both wonderful, amazing women, but for different reasons, I said no.
00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:50.240
And when you say clients, what would what what is the nature of what you what your work is?
00:29:50.720 --> 00:30:00.640
The the business I started, which I still have, it was a copywriting agency and it was writing marketing content for finance and property companies.
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:04.880
And I I mentioned earlier that many of the people I met couldn't have been clients.
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:10.640
If they were if if they worked outside of finance and property, they they couldn't have been clients.
00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:15.119
If they worked for, I don't know, the government or not-for-profit, they couldn't have been clients.
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:19.680
If they were an employee in someone else's business, they couldn't have been clients anyway.
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:22.960
And and that didn't bother me at all because I wasn't doing it to generate business.
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:25.680
For that purpose, yeah, that makes complete sense.
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:29.839
And so it sounds like you've been on quite the journey, and the book is great.
00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:32.960
And I suggest people go out and I love it.
00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:43.599
It's called the 500 Lunches Effect, and I think it's a very powerful insight into how important actually strangers are in our lives.
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:49.519
And you know what they often say that you'll tell a stranger a deep dark secret before you'll tell somebody close, right?
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:52.799
It sounds like you've had that experience on this journey somewhat.
00:30:52.960 --> 00:31:04.240
People have shared some very intimate things, and with that goes an incredible sense of trust and kudos to you for creating this safe space for each other.
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:06.400
Well, well, thank you so much, Deb.
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:09.200
I I I know I said it earlier, I'll say it again.
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:11.599
This has been literally the best thing I've ever done in my life.
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:14.160
It really has transformed my life in so many ways.
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:17.680
And I'm so grateful to the people I met.
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:20.240
I'm grateful to them for wanting to meet me.
00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:25.759
I'm grateful to them for the way they opened up to me, and I'm grateful for them for all the things they taught me.
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:31.599
And then I'm grateful to them for the ongoing friendship and support they've provided me with in the years since.
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:33.039
Well, congratulations.
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:34.319
I think it's wonderful.
00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:35.359
Lovely to meet you.
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:38.000
Thanks for joining us on the What I've Learned Podcast.
00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:39.039
Thanks, Deb.
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:40.319
Great chat.
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:45.680
Well, thank you for joining us on the What I've Learned Podcast.
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:56.240
I hope you enjoyed that interview because we are so privileged to have a wonderful platform where guests come on and share lessons learned, rivers crossed, mountains climbed.
00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:02.720
We love our shared humanity, and we are so grateful to have such a beautiful community.
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:09.519
So remember to stay curious, kind, and connected, and we'll see you next time at the What I've Learned Podcast.
