Kat (00:48)
Hello, Wildness Dumpster Fire. This is our This is our our day with our first guest, other than Dr. J, who was missing or Mr. J.
!Sam! (01:00)
J was not a doctor. We have Doctor Jen
here today and I promise not to cut her.
Kat (01:06)
yeah. So the last time we had a a guest on here, Dr. Jen, it was like from a video clip and he got lost in the in the editing room.
!Sam! (01:18)
If got lost in the export, that
Dr. Jen Rafferty (01:19)
Oops.
!Sam! (01:21)
won't happen, I swear.
Kat (01:22)
That won't happen today. So to our wellness dumpster fire listeners, I'm Dr. Kat, and I'm so excited to bring to you today Dr. Jen Rafferty, who is a educator. And well, you'll give your own like kind of intro about all your fabulousness. But I just wanted to say I met Dr. Jen last year at AFT.
Conference in Washington, DC. And here we are now, a year later, with a lot of great, fabulous wellness things to do to keep our teacher selves in the game. So, and Sam is here as an educator. And so, Dr. Jen, can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
Dr. Jen Rafferty (02:12)
Sure. thank you so much for having me. It was great to meet you at that conference. And it's equally as great to be here talking with you and your sister on this podcast. So yeah, I'm an educator, I'm an author, I'm a TEDx speaker, I'm a mom of two, and I spent most of my career teaching middle school music until COVID happened and a lot of things in my life changed both personally and professionally, and I ended up staying home the fall.
2020 to homeschool my own kids and really dive more deeply into the research that I had already been doing about adolescent cognitive development and realized that I I too have a brain. And so I really wanted to learn more about how I was showing up and how I can leverage my own neurobiology to show up the way that I wanted to and to really bridge the gap between who I was.
And who I wanted to be. So in the spring of twenty twenty one, I resigned from a job that I loved and I started Empowered Educator, which now provides a whole lot of support and training and professional development for teachers so they can continue to show up as their best selves in this noble profession that we chose.
Kat (03:28)
Aw, and I would like to give a shout out at Dr. Jen's PD. So I was in the hour session. and as somebody that has their own PhD work in burnout, and is a burnt out educator in recovery, I would say. Dr. Jen's session really spoke to me. And it it really did line up with
I you were able to, you she had never met anyone in the room. And she was able to speak to everyone in the room. And the room was packed. Like people were pushing in. And Dr. Jen was able to really provide us with some grounding breathwork. And something that's definitely needed, I think, right now, in in the world of education and the lack of resources. And
But Dr. Jim was also really good about not having toxic positivity about things, which can you speak to that a little bit, Dr. Jen? Because I'm I mentioned to you previously that I was able to move through special education because I was like toxically positive about the game that I was in. And I was just like, Well, this is what we do. And I think some of that does stem from I used to be in the military. And like you don't have a lot of choice or
options or agency in the military necessarily. And I applied that in my classrooms and I was not really feeling a lot of things. So can you speak to toxic positivity a little bit?
Dr. Jen Rafferty (05:09)
Sure. I I think what happens sometimes, it's it's well intended. You know, we we want to be able to see through the moment to something that's bigger, see the silver linings, and and on all of that's fine. However, where we get into trouble and where it becomes toxic positivity is when we bypass the uncomfortable emotions that are so desperately wanting to come up and out.
And so we don't deal with our feelings of resentment, or we don't deal with our feelings of rage or grief because it doesn't feel good and it's uncomfortable. And so we just zhuzh it down in an effort to stay positive, which is partially why in my work I very seldom even use the word positivity. We we most often talk about empowering emotions or disempowering emotions because positive, negative.
Almost has this judgment to it of good or bad. All emotions need to be felt. We have this beautiful continuum of emotions that we get to experience as human beings. Unfortunately, our emotional experiences are some of the most undernourished parts of our humanity. We don't just get to cherry-pick the emotions that feel good.
We need to be able to truly lean in to some of those uncomfortable emotions like frustration and anger because it's it's limiting our ability to feel bliss and joy and love when we don't lean into some of those other disempowering emotions. And emotions don't define who we are. I think that's part of why we want to slide into this toxic positivity. It's so alluring because I don't want to be a grumpy person. I don't want to be an angry person.
Those emotions are fleeting. You do not have to tie your identity to something that's so temporary. So the way that we talk about emotions gets to change when we really start to unpack what it is that we're doing when we're feeling them. And sometimes we can talk about them in a in a really productive way in an effort to avoid that toxic positivity, which doesn't feel good anyway.
Kat (07:27)
And
I think in your space, or I know because I observed it, but my observation of your PD, just that one hour, was that people got to sit in what they brought into the space. And I think a lot of times that that's not happening, right? You're not validated for what you're feeling. You're not right. You're not taught it's okay to feel that, and I'm gonna show you how to keep showing up.
Even though you feel that, right?
Dr. Jen Rafferty (07:58)
Yes.
Kat (07:59)
And those two things need to go together for us to continue to show up as educators. so I do want to talk about your book during this session. So I I don't know if you were in the writing process already last year when I first met you, but when I reached out to Dr. Jen a few months after I had originally met her, it was because
I had gotten an email that her book was coming out. So do you want to tell us a little bit about the Empowered Educator? And then Sam and I will talk a little bit about some of the spots that made us like really wanna keep reading it and not put it down and and not like feel like it's just another book to send us back to the classroom and not acknowledge what we're feeling. It's not that at all. So
!Sam! (08:54)
It is no
chicken soup for
Dr. Jen Rafferty (08:55)
Yeah.
!Sam! (08:56)
the teacher's soul. It is way better. I was worried.
Kat (08:58)
Ha ha ha.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (09:00)
Thank you. That is that is high praise.
Yeah, you know, I think in this space the message is invalidating from so many people. The message gets twisted, where it's if you just think like this, or if you just say and do these things, then it will fix how you're feeling. And you know, unfortunately, that that makes my job a whole lot more difficult because.
There has to be a level of validation and an affirmation that you are where you are because of your life's experiences. And it makes complete sense that you're feeling that way. You're not broken, you don't need to be fixed, you're perfectly and beautifully human, and your neurobiology is actually working exactly the way it's supposed to. And so once we can celebrate that, even though it feels
Gross sometimes to be that uncomfortable in those feelings. That validation allows your nervous system to be even open to some new information. So I appreciate that that's how you felt. That is the way that I approach this work, particularly because the message gets so twisted so often. And I'm very intentional about that. So to answer your question.
Yeah, I was very much in the process of writing this book when I met you. the whole thing probably has been just under three years from the time I started this project to the launch, which is August 4th, which I am so excited about. It's in two weeks and I can't wait. And it it's been a beautiful process. You know, one of the reasons why I wanted to write this book in the first place was for access. You know, here was really important information that.
Not only has changed my life because I am a practitioner of all of this work too, but it's also changed the thousands of educators that I've worked with over the years. And not everybody can see me in a conference or at a keynote or take a workshop. having this book created a beautiful on-ramp to this work, and of course serves as the the in-between for the times where maybe we're we're not hanging out so regularly. So you have
access to this material that you can keep coming back to when you need reminders. What I've found over the last five years, especially doing this work, is most of the time we don't need more information. We need reminders of
!Sam! (11:25)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (11:25)
the information we already know.
Kat (11:27)
And to piggyback on that, what I noticed in the book is you can tell that Dr. Jen has been to her share of PDs from her school district where you she was asked about her why, right? And within the book, and I I mean I'm 20 years as an educator. Sam, you have how many?
!Sam! (11:50)
twenty five.
Kat (11:51)
Yeah, so all as public educators. And what I like.
Jen does is it says QI roll or yes, I know you're doing this right now, as soon as I mentioned that. So you take a concept like your why, and then you say, No, no, like the bones are good. And I'm gonna show you how we get to getting agency from the why is kind of how I took it. Does that seem what your goal was?
Dr. Jen Rafferty (12:22)
A hundred percent. Unfortunately, this phrase has been similarly to the toxic positivity. I'd like to think it's well intended, but you can't just tell a burnt out teacher to remember their why to cure them from burnout, to just, well, I I remember why I'm doing this now, so it's it's good now. Like my my plate's fine and I've I've got this, you know, and and also
People's whys change over time. And it's not always, well, I do this for the light bulb moment. Sometimes, sometimes truly it is like I'm getting my kids through college right now. That's that's my why. And so we have not just this, you know, way of of placating, of saying, you know, well, just remember your why. But then we also have judgment on whether or not it's it's good enough or or valid to be in this profession. And and none of that.
needs to be true. And what what really gets to happen here is when you boil down to the reason why you're doing something, not just teaching anything, you become very clear on what your priorities are. Because then you get to decide, well, does this thing matter or does this thing matter? Does writing emails until 10 o'clock or grading until 10 o'clock matter? Well, if your why is, you know, I'm
Want to be able to inspire kids to do their best in the world. maybe you save those papers for the next day. Maybe you don't, but the why is able to kind of ground you and give you some guardrails
Kat (14:02)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (14:03)
to what's important, what's not important. Likewise, you know, if if your why is similarly to what we were just saying, you know, I I'm just trying to get my kids through college for the next few years, that also helps decide, well, I just
Got this emergency faculty meeting that I feel myself getting really stressed out about. If if that faculty meeting isn't really attached to your why, maybe you can let go of some of that stress about
!Sam! (14:27)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (14:28)
it. And it's really a a way for you to navigate how you're showing up, not just putting a smiley face on the whole thing and say, well, I'm just gonna remember my why and everything's good. The the message got twisted there.
Kat (14:41)
Mm-hmm.
And I know my response to that example that you just gave with w when I was in the land of the toxic positivity component, which did it served a purpose, I suppose, because it kept me showing up. but there was no why in what I was doing. It was the you were going to make me do it anyway. So instead of being voluntold, I'm just going to beat you to that and just knock it out.
But then to the detriment of myself, my body, my family, right? And showing up for the students in the classroom. So
Dr. Jen Rafferty (15:20)
Sure.
Kat (15:20)
when I did the, so in in Dr. Jen's book, there's a section on what's your why, right? And I felt like you did a really nice job of moving us through from, okay, well, you're not just writing your why down. We're now unpacking the why.
And then I was fortunate enough to connect with with you recently after I first did it. And we talked a lot about like maybe your why, maybe you're all done. Like in I mean, that's not how mine came out, but because I've had a lot of different because I keep getting hurt, which I guess is something else to unpack. But maybe I need to move faster. But I kept getting hurt in my classrooms. And so I actually did the whys for.
three different areas that I've worked in education. And what I said to Dr. Jen at the end that really like I had the most empowering why because at the end, so there's it's five steps, right? And each number five for working as a teacher of kids with severe multiple impairments, working as a history or civics teacher, and then working as a vision teacher.
All of the fives, once I got to the five for each one, they all aligned. And I thought that that was it was I needed that because just because all of those pieces built like they work together to where I'm at now going into year 21. And I in mine ended up being I wasn't quitting. Actually, I even I did here's a huge compliment. I did that exercise.
And I love the team I'm with and I love the students I'm with and I'm really I've worked very hard on those guardrails. And I was able to say to my husband who has a job that the why is his why is is not there. And I said, Well, you know, I was going to exit in four, but I think I could do ten. Like and so like kudos. I know.
!Sam! (17:28)
Whoa.
Kat (17:30)
And that's like that's a lot of work happening, but I mean Sam's known me.
And she knows how many times I've tried to like get off this, get off this ride. And to see that, you know, to come through. And then also to have satin so many PDs that I think are trying to get you there. They just don't know how. And then Dr. Jed did it. And I was like, my gosh. So
Dr. Jen Rafferty (17:53)
Yeah.
Kat (17:55)
kudos to you because just taking the time and stepping back and also leaving space to be like.
Okay, here's another educator that showed up asking my why. This was an extremely different experience for me. And yeah,
Dr. Jen Rafferty (18:12)
Thank you.
Kat (18:12)
and I also had to come in with an open mind. And also as a a PhD in education, that can also be hard to do, right? Because you're like, okay, I've heard this one. And it's just different. And so that was really exciting for me. So thank you for
Dr. Jen Rafferty (18:34)
my gosh, it's my pleasure.
Kat (18:34)
And I love that they all
converged on each other. Like the fact that they all landed in basically social justice and the want to make society better for my students that are not treated equitably. Like that's why we're showing up. And I have gotten better at the triage of things, right? Like what you were talking about with the emails and the like everything doesn't have to be perfect. even though I'm sure
A few of us in this space are straight A students. So
Dr. Jen Rafferty (19:09)
Yeah,
right. Well, and then that, you know, no understanding what that is. And and I I'm so glad you shared that. Thank you for for sharing that and how interesting that you can have the same why for multiple different avenues, right? You know, you can you can do that. but it does make your priorities very clear. How much of my time, energy, and attention am I gonna put to this thing? Do I have to do it? And if the answer is yeah, you have to do it, well then you get that's where your agency
Kat (19:36)
Yeah.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (19:36)
is. How how much of myself am I going to put here?
Because if you're giving 110% of yourself to everything that asks your attention, you know, that's just bad math. That's it's not gonna happen.
Kat (19:45)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (19:46)
So that's that is a quick way to get to burnout. So getting to a place where you can really
Kat (19:50)
Did that
Dr. Jen Rafferty (19:52)
distill, yeah, right, we've all been there. Same, same, same. You know, but but really boiling it down creates this sense of, okay, I know what my priorities get to be now. And that's something that is not clear in this profession unless you're really taught and told how.
Kat (20:08)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (20:09)
Do it.
Kat (20:09)
And and unlearning habits that we've we're given, right? 20 years ago, or like whoever the right, we want to be in this
Dr. Jen Rafferty (20:15)
Exactly. Yes.
Kat (20:17)
space of unlear unlearning. And I think I know for me with my why, especially with what's happening in the United States and within our systems and our education systems, and within the election year, my why then dispersed to
well, when are we showing up to advocate for DEI? When are we gonna meet and go in protest this weekend? And so like it's starting to like my bucket is starting to get filled in different spots, connected back to that why. And that makes me say to my husband, yeah, I have, I have, I could do it because it's as I'm doing the job, it's filling me up. And I'm also learning how to be like,
It's okay that I don't know how to do every single piece of tech for, you know, people that can't see today. I will learn it. Right. I have to be kind to myself. So, so thank you. I I was not expecting such a monumental seismic shift in my own thinking. so and I Sam, I I did the why exercise after I have seen you. Like, so Sam and I don't get to see each other too much because she lives overseas. And
I like I did it I think as soon as I got home. And that was a big deal. Like I don't
!Sam! (21:40)
Yeah.
Kat (21:41)
it yeah, 'cause otherwise I'm I think I don't I think that we actually did pretty good on a boundary when we were together on not getting too much into classroom stuff, which is also
!Sam! (21:51)
I don't think we had time.
Kat (21:53)
No, we maybe overdid it on the itinerary, but we're all here.
!Sam! (21:59)
Oopsie
guys, I'm sorry. it's supposed to be four hours to Europa Park? Not two.
Kat (22:06)
We had a very long drive we weren't expecting. so I know
Dr. Jen Rafferty (22:09)
Yeah.
Kat (22:11)
that part of this story right away resonated with Sam. So I don't Sam if you want to talk about that. So and if you wanna share like what type of classroom you have as well for Dr. Jen.
!Sam! (22:24)
so Dr. Jen, I am a burnt out educator. I teach health education, middle school, and middle school PE at present time. And my sister, I believe, also pointed out that I have a certain legal situation going on as well. And so it's been escalating over the summer. So the burnout and the I meant to read this book seriously, but I I I couldn't. And so I was reading it today.
I'm so sorry.
Kat (22:55)
It was very st stupid.
!Sam! (22:57)
But so I was like so ple but so okay. So I got to page four but I wrote down some key parts because there is a part that made me wanted to hug the hug my phone. Which was while I was reading your book. And so, the part where your students telling you that this song is hella cheesy and they wanna sing Katy Perry and
Dennis, although this is clearly, I tried to remain calm. So that's where I was in the laundry mat because our washing machine's broken and I just got back from the passport office that was closed, and I was just like, this
Kat (23:40)
Okay.
!Sam! (23:41)
is not chicken soup for the soul. This is real. She
Kat (23:44)
Yeah.
!Sam! (23:44)
knows. And then and then there was that other part where
Dr. Jen Rafferty (23:49)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
!Sam! (23:51)
later in page four.
I've left countless happy hours and dinner tables feeling misunderstood, even disrespected. And so, like again, speaking to my soul. Thank you, Dr. Jen. I had so much joy in the first four pages that I can't wait to read this book and I can't wait to have a physical copy that I can highlight and dog ear. Because reading on my phone is hard.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (24:15)
Yes, yes. Yes,
yes. I'm excited for you too. Well, you can in in two weeks.
!Sam! (24:20)
Yes.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (24:21)
so so excited about that. And and yeah, it was really important to me to speak to my experiences and to my stories as also a middle school teacher. You know, there's a special type of person who does middle school and really likes it. I loved middle school. And I I don't know that I I would have done
Anything differently. you know, I also taught high school level, I taught pre-K through through fifth grade as well at some points in my career, but middle school was really the crux of what I did, and speaking to those experiences, I think became universal. what I've learned also in working with the thousands of educators I've had through Empowered Educator over the years is that what's personal is universal. And I think so many times people who have a platform are
Afraid to really get vulnerable and share the real thing. But that vulnerability is what makes people want to connect and say, Me too, I'm experiencing that. And I thought it was just me. And so part of my journey over the last five years is to lean in and get really comfortable being vulnerable with my own personal stories because that's the stuff that matters.
!Sam! (25:34)
Mm-hmm.
Kat (25:36)
Well, it's so relatable, right? Like I I I think it was on one of your emails. 'cause immediately after the PD I was like, my gosh, I love all these things. And so I also like on your email feed and you had this story about the granola bar and crying and the right, like s like I j it just I could really relate to in education or in life, right? Like you never know what's gonna be the straw that kind of bricks.
!Sam! (26:05)
Yeah.
Kat (26:08)
And I think in teaching, a lot of times it is like you're not it's hard to take care of yourself because you're taking care of so many people. And when your body stops you, like it tells you you didn't eat, you're all done, now you have an autoimmune issue. Or right, or like now you're in hives, or now you're
Dr. Jen Rafferty (26:27)
Yeah, yes.
Kat (26:28)
in and now you're in trouble. And
!Sam! (26:32)
Mm-hmm.
Kat (26:33)
And if you're in a situation like mine, sometimes you're blamed for it. I do think that's very common that you then get blamed. or you're told to go take the bubble bath and you'll be back in 24 hours, or you're ashamed because you wanted to do the mental health day. And I think as systems and leaders start to, and we talked about this too, Dr. Dunn last week. Like to change the system. I, as one person, am changing a system.
But in community, I can disrupt that system. And that's what because also my work was into like, how do we sh keep showing up in a system that's trying to break us? Or whether it's intended or not, it it's it's happening. We're burning out. We're we have a shortage, right? We're not funded. But you had a an example from I think your home state that you said like you got to see the work over a course of
Four years? I don't know if you want to touch on that a little.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (27:36)
Yeah, yeah. I
sure. I mean, I have I have several school districts that I work with that have started with me from when I started my company. So I've had this beautiful vantage point of seeing organizational transformation happen. And so often when folks want to make big change, the impatience becomes the sabotage because it's not happening fast enough.
And like you alluded to, you know, organizations don't change until people change. And the only person you have any agency in changing is yourself. And so once you start to make some shifts, and you and you and you and me and the people next to me individually, that's when you really start to see the ripple effect grow and an an organization start to shift, shift the way that people talk to each other, shift the way
Their expectations are, how they communicate, how they regulate themselves, what's the morale, what's the tone, what do we value here? All of that starts to shift. But we need to zoom out and know that, you know, while four years when we're in it feels like a long time, or the the days are long, but the years are short, kind of a thing. You know, zooming out four years, five years in an educational system really isn't that much time.
Kat (29:00)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (29:02)
And so it's been really beautiful to be able to work with school districts year after year and and watching them and being a part of of their growth in this journey.
Kat (29:14)
And and that's what I liked so much in our conversations and then like within the book is that like that it then feeds the activism piece, right? Because of that's my why, right? So my why to pick up your book and continue reading it is like, wow, in chapter one, Dr. Jen saw me for what I'm trying to do. And I think too in the scheme of cause in our conversation, you're like,
Yeah, well, it's you know, four years that it's been or five years, and it's like, wow, that's not that long. And I do think like reflecting on like in this space feels long, right? but it really isn't. And there is another podcast that I listen to called Five to Four, and they talk a lot about activism. They talk about how
You don't know that you're towards the finish line until like you just don't know. And really there is no finish line, right? Like we're constantly trying to keep the conversation going and how do we keep showing up for each other and how do I support you when ooh, maybe your light is a little bit dim right now, right? So really understanding that, you know, and we can we can use civil rights as an example, right? Like
when the Montgomery bus boycott started, like nobody knew the end of when, you know, government was going to shift. You don't while you're in it, you don't know when it will happen. And so I I just having that conversation with you was helpful to me to like remember like, wait, these are all little pieces that are growing and building. And even with my boss like a few years ago we had a speaker come in and talk about burnout. And
It was no Dr. Jen, just putting it out there. And it wasn't necessarily toxic positivity talk, but it didn't go this extra step. And and and that's okay, right? Because there's a space to start the conversation. And within that space, me and my boss were we had chatted afterward, and she knows that my work is on burnout. And she was talking about how like in the past.
Leadership was like, Well, you would stay, you needed to stay late to fix that, right? Like you were expected to do that. And I said, But were you? Or should we do that? Is that something we should like set as an expectation? And she was, you know, having worked in this in education for a long time, she like stopped and was like, Yeah, well, maybe maybe I shouldn't have done that. Maybe, right? And and it's not like it was bad that you did that, but
that feeds this it feeds the burnout, right? Like and you're allowed
Dr. Jen Rafferty (32:09)
Sure. Yeah.
Kat (32:11)
to set a boundary if you I don't have anything else left for that right now. And that's okay. Right. And so I do think some of that I know for sure in my department things are changing that way. and so I'm I'm very excited to share this book with everyone in there. But yeah, and
But it's like I mean we're talking like a global movement of
Dr. Jen Rafferty (32:37)
Yes, that's what I'm talking about. A global movement. It it needs to be. But it for for me, it's this is a very backdoor way of making change.
Kat (32:46)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (32:47)
This is this is not the like bang down the door kind of change that we're making here at at in this juncture. You know, Empowered Educator again is just reminding everybody and and giving them the tools that they need to continue to remember their agency.
You know, we we so easily become victims of our circumstances and our emotions that we forget that we get to drive the bus. And no one has been taught or told how to do this, let alone modeled, right? You know, even just the research and neuroplasticity is is relatively new. So understanding and leveraging your neurobiology is a whole new way to approach everything that that we're here for. And to your point too.
What I what I was hearing is as we zoom out, it is so important to celebrate those small wins. Because when your eye is just on this destination, but then also knowing that that final destination point is always moving, that alone leads to burnout because we're never feeling like we're getting anywhere. But if we take a moment and stop and look around and look behind us and say, wow.
Look how far I've come from last year, from last month, from yesterday, from this morning, from five minutes ago when I was feeling it. Now I'm feeling much better, working through something that needed to come out. Those little wins need to be celebrated,
Kat (34:15)
Mm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (34:16)
vocalized, shared. Because if we're talking about leveraging our neurobiology, when we pay attention to those things and we shine light and we celebrate.
We're creating opportunities for dopamine to come flowing through our bloodstream. And when we talk to people about them, oxytocin and our brain wants to do more of that thing. And that will continue to give us the fuel that we need when things feel hard. But we gloss over those little things because it doesn't feel like a big deal. It doesn't feel shiny enough, or we're afraid.
To stand out and toot our own horns because we don't want to make anyone else feel bad. That's part of, and I talked about that a lot in chapter 10. That's part of the culture that we get to shift as an empowered educator by celebrating ourselves, celebrating each other, and then in turn making it safe to celebrate our students and have them celebrate themselves and each other.
Kat (35:08)
Mm. Yeah.
The trickle effect. And I do think that
Dr. Jen Rafferty (35:13)
Mm.
Kat (35:13)
being in the present is so important. especially especially around high achievers, right? Because like I feel like it's never enough, right? I remember getting my PhD and the secretary said to me, so now what are you gonna do? It was just like, Well, I don't know, that almost killed me. so we're just
So and and I don't know who is cited as this is more like motivational, but like the statement of remember when you wished for what you have right now. And like we just don't sit in it. And nor we're and I feel like we're told not to, right? Like keep moving, keep moving. Like very like neoliberal, like
Dr. Jen Rafferty (35:58)
Yeah.
Kat (35:59)
capitalist, well, we got that. We need more, we need more, we need more.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (36:05)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That that reminds me of a book. I don't know if you read it, by Devon Price, Laziness Does Not Exist. It's it's a great, great book. a big activist for LGBTQ rights.
Kat (36:20)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (36:21)
their I think this was one of of their many books, but that was the one that spoke to me especially because just like what you were saying, Sam, in the first four pages, I felt very seen as an
Over functioning, overachieving perfectionist that you know, in my spare moments they went as far as being like, and then you're on Duolingo because you've got five extra minutes to spare. So you might as well be learning something. And it's like, what is what are they seeing me like that? Totally called me out. but to to your point, Kat, you know, we live in a culture of do more, your productivity equals your worth. And that also is a lie. It's just not.
True. And so sitting in the present moment or taking time to just be quiet, rest, reflect, celebrate yourself isn't part of the culture. And it's such a disservice to how we actually say that we want to be. Nothing changes if nothing changes. And so every time you do something different, you are disrupting the inertia of same old, same old, same old.
And that in and of itself gets to be celebrated, which is also why, you know, what we do in Empowered Educator is in community.
Kat (37:38)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (37:39)
We build community here because we can't do this in isolation and have this sustainable change. So having conversations like this with you and then bringing it back to the the empowered educators who are doing the work every day, it completely and exponentially grows every single day.
Kat (38:00)
Definitely. And I think too, like, I know even just since Sam and I started the podcast, whenever we get somebody mentioned something from the podcast, it's like, you know, that sat with me, or I bought that book, or I did this thing, or I tried that. All of those pieces are so much momentum, right? Like to to come back to this space
Dr. Jen Rafferty (38:22)
Yes.
Kat (38:22)
in community and to celebrate. I am forty five. sorry.
!Sam! (38:27)
I'm just gonna inject someone
did say cousin Katie on mom's side your ideas have been stupid. So that's from episode one. You don't know Dr.
Kat (38:36)
yeah, that's from that's from the early episodes where Yeah.
!Sam! (38:40)
Jen. It's okay.
Kat (38:42)
But our
cousin Katie, she
Dr. Jen Rafferty (38:43)
I don't know episode one.
Kat (38:45)
met Arnie Duncan. The Yeah, and he had
Dr. Jen Rafferty (38:48)
Mm.
Kat (38:49)
some bad ideas. And she called him out.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (38:51)
Mm.
Kat (38:53)
So anyway, so we're just
Dr. Jen Rafferty (38:54)
Okay.
Kat (38:55)
we're working on some different stickers that but like it's funny when something resonates with somebody and comes back. And I actually I'm gonna pull this around to Dr. Jen, but before I was before Sam was
was adding that I was gonna say, well, I'm 45 and I really wanted to take this idea over here, but then I forgot what it was. And that's because I'm 45. And so I'm just gonna leave space for that. And but taking different things. So I told Dr. Jen that I used one of her favorite breath techniques and one of my professional developments I did this year. And the discussion was about like
using breathing to regulate your nervous system. And we have to be taught to do that because our nervous system is so activated at so many right at so many spaces. And one of my favorite responses that that you had in this space, because it was all right, I think it was like 120 people in this too small of a room, you needed the big hall. Don't they know
Anyway, next time.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (40:07)
Next time.
Kat (40:11)
but people were in a safe vulnerable space vulner vul vulnerable space to to tell you the truth. Like I'm off the top of my head, I can't remember what type of classroom the woman was in, but I know for sure when you're in a self-contained, emotionally impaired style type classroom, things are moving fast and things can happen very fast. And
The person's point was basically, I don't even know where I'm going to take the breath or get the rage out. And you're like, well, and you you showed everyone how to scream into like their sh the pocket of their elbow. And I taught that at my PD because I learned it from you. And then I showed it. And then people that attended that PD were like, my gosh, it's my favorite thing. And it really was helping them.
And so you I think that you bring a lot of things that people may have heard from other spaces, but it's done in a way that you actually do it and you use it, right? And so box breathing wasn't something that was new to me. But when I read your book, guess what I've been doing every day? That I sit in my car, right? I'm okay, I'm breathing in for four, I'm holding it. I'm exhaling for four and I'm holding it.
And I'm not starting the car until I do that. Or I'm not going in the building until that happens. And you did that. Because I wasn't making it a habit before this, right? I was like, yada yada, thanks. Stop dysregulating me. Like society,
!Sam! (41:52)
Yeah.
Kat (41:53)
right? And I was very bitter. And you made this space of like, well, we know that that's we know it's bad.
It is bad and it is hard. And
Dr. Jen Rafferty (42:06)
Mm-hmm.
Kat (42:07)
sometimes you are only gonna be able to go in the corner and scream in your elbow. Like or nook. I don't know what we would call it. But but I think
Dr. Jen Rafferty (42:15)
Yeah yeah. Yeah. Either it's either works.
Kat (42:17)
to give that space to like acknowledge, I'm giving you these tools and I know I know it's hard to put the tools in place. But even if you try one, it might make a difference. And I I just felt like that really resonated with me and then
You know, and then I'm a I'm adding it to my PDs and right, like so in community, I I just love that. And if you do get a chance to see Dr. Jen Rafferty at a PD or you're going to, I don't know if if you are often at the big like AFT conferences and those type of conferences, or and you can speak to that a little bit more right at the end, but definitely worth going to.
Right. Even if you have been educated in everything she's telling you about. And I will say when I signed up for the different sections, I was trying to stretch myself to be like, okay, I know a lot about burnout. So, and there was a lot of choices on burnout on that conference. And I don't know what I didn't, I only went to yours. And everything else I picked was community. and I don't know what made me like.
selectures but it was my favorite thing and now Dr. Jen can't get rid of me. Sorry.
!Sam! (43:35)
Yeah.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (43:36)
Well, I'm so glad you did. And I'm so glad it worked out that way. But you know, I think part of it is I, like I said before, I am a practitioner of the work. So, you know, I'm not just speaking to these practices theoretically. I have context for it. You know, I I can tell you when my box breathing has fallen off and I ignore my breathing break alarms, and I can talk about how.
my body was so overwhelmed and I'm just sitting on my floor in my office crying because I need to let it out. I I can talk about the difficult conversations I have with my kids and they're like, Mom, what's going on with your tone right now? So, you know, I you know that's
!Sam! (44:16)
What's going on with your film right now?
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:19)
yeah, although I'll tell no, they were really, but that's the
!Sam! (44:21)
That's
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:22)
thing. They're they're in this work, right? So it it was just like, hey, what's what's happening with your tone right now? That's literally how my 14 year old talks
!Sam! (44:28)
And it's like,
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:29)
to me. And
Kat (44:30)
Yeah, but that would like NOTING
!Sam! (44:30)
Yay.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:31)
Right. S
!Sam! (44:33)
I'm Gen
X and it's like
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:34)
Yeah, right.
Kat (44:36)
Yes.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:38)
Well, we have this
!Sam! (44:38)
Yeah.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:39)
this beautiful language now in our household where we can talk about these things in in a way that is regulated and we're not totally triggering
Kat (44:47)
Yeah.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:47)
ourselves
!Sam! (44:47)
Yeah.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:48)
all of the time. Of course it you know it happens, but we know how to handle that when it does also. So, you know, I'm I'm not coming in here saying you really should do a box breath and this is how you do it. This is how I live my life also. So that vulnerability piece, that sharing, I think.
is another differentiator of how we operate here in Empowered Educator. And so do all of my staff. You know, everybody who does any coaching or is any doing anything in the company, but especially forward facing and and working with our our clients and our teachers, they they need to be walking the walk, which allows for that integrity of of our of our company and our message.
Kat (45:33)
Well, that's a good segue because another thing we had chatted about was I had let Dr. Jen know about this year where I was like really regulated. I would wake up and before I was even allowed to go down the stairs, I went to a quiet space and I did my meditation and I did my breathing. And what I had shared with Dr. Jen is I then got to this space of like, I had like lost my
rage. So like I almost what did I can't remember what you said. I I like bypassed the emotion because I was like to me it almost felt like I was too regulated, but that's not what I was, I'm sure. So I don't know if you
!Sam! (46:15)
Yeah.
Kat (46:15)
if anybody like is practicing these things and then I can you speak a little bit to like I don't know you have
Dr. Jen Rafferty (46:25)
Sure.
Kat (46:25)
like kind of this shift but it's like wait now I'm just like not feeling anything here in this
Thanks. That's what I did to myself a little bit.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (46:33)
Yeah.
Well, I think there's there could be a couple of things happening with that. You know, similarly to the toxic positivity, you know, it's it's so easy to say, okay, well, I'm gonna be a perfectionist about my regulation and be so regulated all of the time. I'm gonna get
Kat (46:46)
it was. A plus plus plus.
!Sam! (46:49)
Yeah.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (46:52)
I'm gonna get all the gold stars for how regulated I am, and then, you know, make conscious choices to just not feel the things that
get you going, like that anger or that rage that that you so wanted to feel and and not be and get get lost with that and not be in touch with that anymore. You know, having a regulated nervous system does not mean that you are floating around on Cloud Nine singing kumbaya all day. What a regulated nervous system means is that your your peaks aren't as high
And your lows maybe aren't as low, and you're able to get to more of a homeostasis more quickly. That's it. Because if you're if if you were never in your sympathetic nervous system state, there'd be something biologically wrong because you're you are meant to detect threats, you
Kat (47:45)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (47:46)
are meant to feel things. And so if you're not feeling the things, that's a really important moment to say, hey.
What's going on here and get really curious about it. you know, there's also a time as you're doing this work and your priorities change, sometimes things maybe aren't going to bother you as much as they did, and that's okay. the important piece to remember is to get curious, ask better questions, and continue to act from a place of alignment of who you want to be and
That gets to be congruent with your thoughts and your feelings and your actions and the language that you speak. And if that fire is something that is really important to you, then that's an opportunity to get really curious about, well, what what gets me lit up? And perhaps that that light looks or even feels different than it did before because you're coming from a different place and you are a different person
Kat (48:49)
Yeah, you know.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (48:50)
now.
So, you know, none of these are a prognosis, so
Kat (48:53)
No, no.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (48:55)
to speak. That's not that's not what it is. but what it but what it allows you to do is is open the door to a whole lot of really good questions to ask. Sometimes why am I feeling like this is not the best question. a better question would be, what do I need right now? What is my body trying to tell me? What do I feel is is
The gap between where I'm at right now and where I want to be, those are much better questions. Why am I feeling like this? And that we ask that of ourselves all of the time to like justify what's going on. But the truth is, your subconscious is gathering information all of the time. You could have smelled something as you walked into the house that.
triggered a memory that is below your conscious awareness, that now all of a sudden you're in this grumpy mood and you have no idea why. So why am I feeling like this way is not really always a
Kat (49:49)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (49:50)
helpful question. asking what do I need? What is my body trying to tell me, those will glean and and yield better answers that you can actually action.
Kat (50:00)
Yay. I love it. and also Dr. Jen does such a beautiful job of explaining the nervous system and parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system and your beautiful image of the vagus nerve that you use in your presentation. And I mean it's very well done. And that is not an easy thing to do. so I'm gonna leave that one to Dr. Jen with
Dr. Jen Rafferty (50:24)
Thank you.
Kat (50:24)
her PhD in neuroscience, right?
Dr. Jen Rafferty (50:28)
It's educational
psychology, but a a huge affinity for for cognitive neuroscience, yes.
Kat (50:33)
Yes.
so we have just a few minutes left. And
Dr. Jen Rafferty (50:37)
Yeah.
Kat (50:40)
so my plan is that we're gonna talk about our petals of power, which on Wellness Dumpster Fire, we acknowledge the dumpster that we're in and
!Sam! (50:50)
Yeah.
Kat (50:50)
the fire, but we're looking for that hope, right? And that what is is keeping us coming back, and how do we keep coming back? And that's our sunflower.
And the story of that beautiful logo that our sister drew for us was that I actually drove by a sewer grate in my subdivision and a sunflower was growing out of it. And so that's where we got our logo. And I know for sure in the world of special education, or right, and it doesn't have to be about education, right? Like in the world of
Parenting a newborn baby in the world of changing jobs, in the world of you know, working under a very difficult system, we need to find that hope in that space that keeps us coming back. And so that's our petal of power. And so, were you able to think of a petal of power? Would you like us to go first, Dr. Jen?
Dr. Jen Rafferty (51:49)
No, I'm I'm happy to. You know, the I I perpetually wear rose colored glasses on my face. And I've been doing this work long enough to know that not everybody does. I am unapologetic about it. It requires me to picture a better world than what exists right now. And so that helps me see the gaps where I'm I'm not looking at at
The gaps saying, you know, well, it is what it is. You know, in my rose-colored glasses, it's already better. And so that, and I get, I'm getting chills just even articulating this, that allows me the motivation to do the thing. I feel a deep sense of civic duty to do this work.
I remember when I first started teaching, I was maybe 22, 23. I went to my first conference, and all of these older teachers, mostly men, were sharing and doing their sessions. And I remember that young age being like, you know, I have something to say. And there were things that were really working in my classroom. And I felt a deep sense of responsibility to share it.
Because if I was doing something that worked, then maybe it could help someone else and change another kid's life. And so my my rose colored glasses are my petal of power. And that's something that is is maybe in internal for me and in how I see the world. but after thinking about that question last week, that's that was my knee jerk. That's what came up for me.
Kat (53:33)
I love
that.
!Sam! (53:34)
Love it.
Kat (53:36)
so my petal of power is that I met Dr. Jen Rafferty about a year ago in Washington, DC. And look where we are right now. Right? And so back to those rose-colored glasses, like Jen Dr. Jen had to make like the space comfortable enough that somebody that never met her and
does similar work and has similar voice that I want to share as well. Felt like I could go up to her and be like, I want to do this work too. I'm doing this work. How do we can I work with you? Can I write? Can we talk about it? And here we are and she has a book and I love that. And I think that a huge petal is that well I appreciate you coming on Sam Sam and our podcast, Sam and my podcast, but
The fact that like I'm so happy for you, right? Like that's community. And you're kind enough to like stay engaged with me, but also, my gosh, Dr. Jen, you did it. And that is really exciting. And so that's my petal.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (54:48)
Thank you. Yes. Yes to all of that. That's what this is all about. Always.
!Sam! (54:53)
So
I have two. So one, Dr. Jen, I'm so excited to read your physical book on August tw second,
Kat (55:01)
Ha ha
!Sam! (55:02)
right? Is that when it comes out or the fourth? August fourth.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (55:05)
August fourth, yes.
!Sam! (55:06)
So I'll pre-order it after recording right now. and
Dr. Jen Rafferty (55:11)
Great.
!Sam! (55:12)
so with my own personal burnout, but without saying too much, as a middle school sex educator in a federal system.
My whole why was taken away under executive orders. And so, what gives me hope right now as I'm navigating a different way for me, is this lawsuit that three teachers in Iowa won. they were Pride Club sponsors, and
I have to read it So three Iowa teachers won $150,000 settlement from the Ankinese Community School District after being suspended and investigated for facilitating a student gender sexuality alliance or GSA drag show. So under the settlement, the teachers will receive $27,000 each, with the remaining going to their attorney fee fees. So people on the right side of history.
won in our system and so that gives me a bit of hope. So
Kat (56:23)
Yay.
Yay.
!Sam! (56:26)
Also
Crystal Castle
Kat (56:29)
yeah. Dr. Jen, Sam and I are of the 80s, late 70s to the 80s, and we like
!Sam! (56:36)
You might not know.
Kat (56:40)
the masters of the universe. And so whenever we do the petals of power, Sam is like always hearing this song, Crystal Castle, from She-Ra
Dr. Jen Rafferty (56:49)
Love it. Love
Kat (56:52)
Also, we were from a a big
Dr. Jen Rafferty (56:52)
it.
Kat (56:53)
family, so you had to
!Sam! (56:54)
Yeah.
Kat (56:54)
be like I don't know, you had to be pretty vocal with your agency there. so Dr. Jen, I'm very impressed that we stayed on time.
So thank you so much for being on our podcast. Sam and I don't usually stay on time. so that is pretty big deal. And can you leave us with telling all of our listeners where to I'm a big fan of the pre order because I know that's really important. So pre order and then if you didn't order by August fourth, like order your book. Can you share that with us?
Dr. Jen Rafferty (57:31)
Sure, you can get your book at empowerededucator.com slash book and that'll take you to all of the places and spaces for you to get it and some other really great information there. And you can always find me on Instagram at Jen Rafferty underscore.
Kat (57:46)
Excellent. Well, thank you, Dr. Jen Rafferty. We're so glad that you're here on the pod. And I hope all of our friends are off ordering the book already. So I'm so excited for it to come.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (58:00)
Yes. Thank
you so much for having me. Yeah, it was this was great. I'm I'm looking forward to continuing our conversation in the future. Thank you.
Kat (58:08)
thank you.
!Sam! (58:11)
All right, so we'll close out with will be so fit? Okay. We pretend to work
Kat (58:14)
yes. So I don't know if Doctor Jen knows
!Sam! (58:17)
out in the basement, Doctor Jen, so
Kat (58:20)
no, so if
Sam's lawsuit goes south, we I've always said like, Well, you can move into my basement, but then I turned my basement into a gym and so now we're like we'll
we'll be so fit if you live down here.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (58:34)
Yeah. I love it.
!Sam! (58:35)
And we'll start a podcast in the basement.
Kat (58:37)
We did. I'm in I'm in my basement
as we speak. So we'll be so fit.
!Sam! (58:41)
be so fit.
Hello, Wildness Dumpster Fire. This is our This is our our day with our first guest, other than Dr. J, who was missing or Mr. J.
!Sam! (01:00)
J was not a doctor. We have Doctor Jen
here today and I promise not to cut her.
Kat (01:06)
yeah. So the last time we had a a guest on here, Dr. Jen, it was like from a video clip and he got lost in the in the editing room.
!Sam! (01:18)
If got lost in the export, that
Dr. Jen Rafferty (01:19)
Oops.
!Sam! (01:21)
won't happen, I swear.
Kat (01:22)
That won't happen today. So to our wellness dumpster fire listeners, I'm Dr. Kat, and I'm so excited to bring to you today Dr. Jen Rafferty, who is a educator. And well, you'll give your own like kind of intro about all your fabulousness. But I just wanted to say I met Dr. Jen last year at AFT.
Conference in Washington, DC. And here we are now, a year later, with a lot of great, fabulous wellness things to do to keep our teacher selves in the game. So, and Sam is here as an educator. And so, Dr. Jen, can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
Dr. Jen Rafferty (02:12)
Sure. thank you so much for having me. It was great to meet you at that conference. And it's equally as great to be here talking with you and your sister on this podcast. So yeah, I'm an educator, I'm an author, I'm a TEDx speaker, I'm a mom of two, and I spent most of my career teaching middle school music until COVID happened and a lot of things in my life changed both personally and professionally, and I ended up staying home the fall.
2020 to homeschool my own kids and really dive more deeply into the research that I had already been doing about adolescent cognitive development and realized that I I too have a brain. And so I really wanted to learn more about how I was showing up and how I can leverage my own neurobiology to show up the way that I wanted to and to really bridge the gap between who I was.
And who I wanted to be. So in the spring of twenty twenty one, I resigned from a job that I loved and I started Empowered Educator, which now provides a whole lot of support and training and professional development for teachers so they can continue to show up as their best selves in this noble profession that we chose.
Kat (03:28)
Aw, and I would like to give a shout out at Dr. Jen's PD. So I was in the hour session. and as somebody that has their own PhD work in burnout, and is a burnt out educator in recovery, I would say. Dr. Jen's session really spoke to me. And it it really did line up with
I you were able to, you she had never met anyone in the room. And she was able to speak to everyone in the room. And the room was packed. Like people were pushing in. And Dr. Jen was able to really provide us with some grounding breathwork. And something that's definitely needed, I think, right now, in in the world of education and the lack of resources. And
But Dr. Jim was also really good about not having toxic positivity about things, which can you speak to that a little bit, Dr. Jen? Because I'm I mentioned to you previously that I was able to move through special education because I was like toxically positive about the game that I was in. And I was just like, Well, this is what we do. And I think some of that does stem from I used to be in the military. And like you don't have a lot of choice or
options or agency in the military necessarily. And I applied that in my classrooms and I was not really feeling a lot of things. So can you speak to toxic positivity a little bit?
Dr. Jen Rafferty (05:09)
Sure. I I think what happens sometimes, it's it's well intended. You know, we we want to be able to see through the moment to something that's bigger, see the silver linings, and and on all of that's fine. However, where we get into trouble and where it becomes toxic positivity is when we bypass the uncomfortable emotions that are so desperately wanting to come up and out.
And so we don't deal with our feelings of resentment, or we don't deal with our feelings of rage or grief because it doesn't feel good and it's uncomfortable. And so we just zhuzh it down in an effort to stay positive, which is partially why in my work I very seldom even use the word positivity. We we most often talk about empowering emotions or disempowering emotions because positive, negative.
Almost has this judgment to it of good or bad. All emotions need to be felt. We have this beautiful continuum of emotions that we get to experience as human beings. Unfortunately, our emotional experiences are some of the most undernourished parts of our humanity. We don't just get to cherry-pick the emotions that feel good.
We need to be able to truly lean in to some of those uncomfortable emotions like frustration and anger because it's it's limiting our ability to feel bliss and joy and love when we don't lean into some of those other disempowering emotions. And emotions don't define who we are. I think that's part of why we want to slide into this toxic positivity. It's so alluring because I don't want to be a grumpy person. I don't want to be an angry person.
Those emotions are fleeting. You do not have to tie your identity to something that's so temporary. So the way that we talk about emotions gets to change when we really start to unpack what it is that we're doing when we're feeling them. And sometimes we can talk about them in a in a really productive way in an effort to avoid that toxic positivity, which doesn't feel good anyway.
Kat (07:27)
And
I think in your space, or I know because I observed it, but my observation of your PD, just that one hour, was that people got to sit in what they brought into the space. And I think a lot of times that that's not happening, right? You're not validated for what you're feeling. You're not right. You're not taught it's okay to feel that, and I'm gonna show you how to keep showing up.
Even though you feel that, right?
Dr. Jen Rafferty (07:58)
Yes.
Kat (07:59)
And those two things need to go together for us to continue to show up as educators. so I do want to talk about your book during this session. So I I don't know if you were in the writing process already last year when I first met you, but when I reached out to Dr. Jen a few months after I had originally met her, it was because
I had gotten an email that her book was coming out. So do you want to tell us a little bit about the Empowered Educator? And then Sam and I will talk a little bit about some of the spots that made us like really wanna keep reading it and not put it down and and not like feel like it's just another book to send us back to the classroom and not acknowledge what we're feeling. It's not that at all. So
!Sam! (08:54)
It is no
chicken soup for
Dr. Jen Rafferty (08:55)
Yeah.
!Sam! (08:56)
the teacher's soul. It is way better. I was worried.
Kat (08:58)
Ha ha ha.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (09:00)
Thank you. That is that is high praise.
Yeah, you know, I think in this space the message is invalidating from so many people. The message gets twisted, where it's if you just think like this, or if you just say and do these things, then it will fix how you're feeling. And you know, unfortunately, that that makes my job a whole lot more difficult because.
There has to be a level of validation and an affirmation that you are where you are because of your life's experiences. And it makes complete sense that you're feeling that way. You're not broken, you don't need to be fixed, you're perfectly and beautifully human, and your neurobiology is actually working exactly the way it's supposed to. And so once we can celebrate that, even though it feels
Gross sometimes to be that uncomfortable in those feelings. That validation allows your nervous system to be even open to some new information. So I appreciate that that's how you felt. That is the way that I approach this work, particularly because the message gets so twisted so often. And I'm very intentional about that. So to answer your question.
Yeah, I was very much in the process of writing this book when I met you. the whole thing probably has been just under three years from the time I started this project to the launch, which is August 4th, which I am so excited about. It's in two weeks and I can't wait. And it it's been a beautiful process. You know, one of the reasons why I wanted to write this book in the first place was for access. You know, here was really important information that.
Not only has changed my life because I am a practitioner of all of this work too, but it's also changed the thousands of educators that I've worked with over the years. And not everybody can see me in a conference or at a keynote or take a workshop. having this book created a beautiful on-ramp to this work, and of course serves as the the in-between for the times where maybe we're we're not hanging out so regularly. So you have
access to this material that you can keep coming back to when you need reminders. What I've found over the last five years, especially doing this work, is most of the time we don't need more information. We need reminders of
!Sam! (11:25)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (11:25)
the information we already know.
Kat (11:27)
And to piggyback on that, what I noticed in the book is you can tell that Dr. Jen has been to her share of PDs from her school district where you she was asked about her why, right? And within the book, and I I mean I'm 20 years as an educator. Sam, you have how many?
!Sam! (11:50)
twenty five.
Kat (11:51)
Yeah, so all as public educators. And what I like.
Jen does is it says QI roll or yes, I know you're doing this right now, as soon as I mentioned that. So you take a concept like your why, and then you say, No, no, like the bones are good. And I'm gonna show you how we get to getting agency from the why is kind of how I took it. Does that seem what your goal was?
Dr. Jen Rafferty (12:22)
A hundred percent. Unfortunately, this phrase has been similarly to the toxic positivity. I'd like to think it's well intended, but you can't just tell a burnt out teacher to remember their why to cure them from burnout, to just, well, I I remember why I'm doing this now, so it's it's good now. Like my my plate's fine and I've I've got this, you know, and and also
People's whys change over time. And it's not always, well, I do this for the light bulb moment. Sometimes, sometimes truly it is like I'm getting my kids through college right now. That's that's my why. And so we have not just this, you know, way of of placating, of saying, you know, well, just remember your why. But then we also have judgment on whether or not it's it's good enough or or valid to be in this profession. And and none of that.
needs to be true. And what what really gets to happen here is when you boil down to the reason why you're doing something, not just teaching anything, you become very clear on what your priorities are. Because then you get to decide, well, does this thing matter or does this thing matter? Does writing emails until 10 o'clock or grading until 10 o'clock matter? Well, if your why is, you know, I'm
Want to be able to inspire kids to do their best in the world. maybe you save those papers for the next day. Maybe you don't, but the why is able to kind of ground you and give you some guardrails
Kat (14:02)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (14:03)
to what's important, what's not important. Likewise, you know, if if your why is similarly to what we were just saying, you know, I I'm just trying to get my kids through college for the next few years, that also helps decide, well, I just
Got this emergency faculty meeting that I feel myself getting really stressed out about. If if that faculty meeting isn't really attached to your why, maybe you can let go of some of that stress about
!Sam! (14:27)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (14:28)
it. And it's really a a way for you to navigate how you're showing up, not just putting a smiley face on the whole thing and say, well, I'm just gonna remember my why and everything's good. The the message got twisted there.
Kat (14:41)
Mm-hmm.
And I know my response to that example that you just gave with w when I was in the land of the toxic positivity component, which did it served a purpose, I suppose, because it kept me showing up. but there was no why in what I was doing. It was the you were going to make me do it anyway. So instead of being voluntold, I'm just going to beat you to that and just knock it out.
But then to the detriment of myself, my body, my family, right? And showing up for the students in the classroom. So
Dr. Jen Rafferty (15:20)
Sure.
Kat (15:20)
when I did the, so in in Dr. Jen's book, there's a section on what's your why, right? And I felt like you did a really nice job of moving us through from, okay, well, you're not just writing your why down. We're now unpacking the why.
And then I was fortunate enough to connect with with you recently after I first did it. And we talked a lot about like maybe your why, maybe you're all done. Like in I mean, that's not how mine came out, but because I've had a lot of different because I keep getting hurt, which I guess is something else to unpack. But maybe I need to move faster. But I kept getting hurt in my classrooms. And so I actually did the whys for.
three different areas that I've worked in education. And what I said to Dr. Jen at the end that really like I had the most empowering why because at the end, so there's it's five steps, right? And each number five for working as a teacher of kids with severe multiple impairments, working as a history or civics teacher, and then working as a vision teacher.
All of the fives, once I got to the five for each one, they all aligned. And I thought that that was it was I needed that because just because all of those pieces built like they work together to where I'm at now going into year 21. And I in mine ended up being I wasn't quitting. Actually, I even I did here's a huge compliment. I did that exercise.
And I love the team I'm with and I love the students I'm with and I'm really I've worked very hard on those guardrails. And I was able to say to my husband who has a job that the why is his why is is not there. And I said, Well, you know, I was going to exit in four, but I think I could do ten. Like and so like kudos. I know.
!Sam! (17:28)
Whoa.
Kat (17:30)
And that's like that's a lot of work happening, but I mean Sam's known me.
And she knows how many times I've tried to like get off this, get off this ride. And to see that, you know, to come through. And then also to have satin so many PDs that I think are trying to get you there. They just don't know how. And then Dr. Jed did it. And I was like, my gosh. So
Dr. Jen Rafferty (17:53)
Yeah.
Kat (17:55)
kudos to you because just taking the time and stepping back and also leaving space to be like.
Okay, here's another educator that showed up asking my why. This was an extremely different experience for me. And yeah,
Dr. Jen Rafferty (18:12)
Thank you.
Kat (18:12)
and I also had to come in with an open mind. And also as a a PhD in education, that can also be hard to do, right? Because you're like, okay, I've heard this one. And it's just different. And so that was really exciting for me. So thank you for
Dr. Jen Rafferty (18:34)
my gosh, it's my pleasure.
Kat (18:34)
And I love that they all
converged on each other. Like the fact that they all landed in basically social justice and the want to make society better for my students that are not treated equitably. Like that's why we're showing up. And I have gotten better at the triage of things, right? Like what you were talking about with the emails and the like everything doesn't have to be perfect. even though I'm sure
A few of us in this space are straight A students. So
Dr. Jen Rafferty (19:09)
Yeah,
right. Well, and then that, you know, no understanding what that is. And and I I'm so glad you shared that. Thank you for for sharing that and how interesting that you can have the same why for multiple different avenues, right? You know, you can you can do that. but it does make your priorities very clear. How much of my time, energy, and attention am I gonna put to this thing? Do I have to do it? And if the answer is yeah, you have to do it, well then you get that's where your agency
Kat (19:36)
Yeah.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (19:36)
is. How how much of myself am I going to put here?
Because if you're giving 110% of yourself to everything that asks your attention, you know, that's just bad math. That's it's not gonna happen.
Kat (19:45)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (19:46)
So that's that is a quick way to get to burnout. So getting to a place where you can really
Kat (19:50)
Did that
Dr. Jen Rafferty (19:52)
distill, yeah, right, we've all been there. Same, same, same. You know, but but really boiling it down creates this sense of, okay, I know what my priorities get to be now. And that's something that is not clear in this profession unless you're really taught and told how.
Kat (20:08)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (20:09)
Do it.
Kat (20:09)
And and unlearning habits that we've we're given, right? 20 years ago, or like whoever the right, we want to be in this
Dr. Jen Rafferty (20:15)
Exactly. Yes.
Kat (20:17)
space of unlear unlearning. And I think I know for me with my why, especially with what's happening in the United States and within our systems and our education systems, and within the election year, my why then dispersed to
well, when are we showing up to advocate for DEI? When are we gonna meet and go in protest this weekend? And so like it's starting to like my bucket is starting to get filled in different spots, connected back to that why. And that makes me say to my husband, yeah, I have, I have, I could do it because it's as I'm doing the job, it's filling me up. And I'm also learning how to be like,
It's okay that I don't know how to do every single piece of tech for, you know, people that can't see today. I will learn it. Right. I have to be kind to myself. So, so thank you. I I was not expecting such a monumental seismic shift in my own thinking. so and I Sam, I I did the why exercise after I have seen you. Like, so Sam and I don't get to see each other too much because she lives overseas. And
I like I did it I think as soon as I got home. And that was a big deal. Like I don't
!Sam! (21:40)
Yeah.
Kat (21:41)
it yeah, 'cause otherwise I'm I think I don't I think that we actually did pretty good on a boundary when we were together on not getting too much into classroom stuff, which is also
!Sam! (21:51)
I don't think we had time.
Kat (21:53)
No, we maybe overdid it on the itinerary, but we're all here.
!Sam! (21:59)
Oopsie
guys, I'm sorry. it's supposed to be four hours to Europa Park? Not two.
Kat (22:06)
We had a very long drive we weren't expecting. so I know
Dr. Jen Rafferty (22:09)
Yeah.
Kat (22:11)
that part of this story right away resonated with Sam. So I don't Sam if you want to talk about that. So and if you wanna share like what type of classroom you have as well for Dr. Jen.
!Sam! (22:24)
so Dr. Jen, I am a burnt out educator. I teach health education, middle school, and middle school PE at present time. And my sister, I believe, also pointed out that I have a certain legal situation going on as well. And so it's been escalating over the summer. So the burnout and the I meant to read this book seriously, but I I I couldn't. And so I was reading it today.
I'm so sorry.
Kat (22:55)
It was very st stupid.
!Sam! (22:57)
But so I was like so ple but so okay. So I got to page four but I wrote down some key parts because there is a part that made me wanted to hug the hug my phone. Which was while I was reading your book. And so, the part where your students telling you that this song is hella cheesy and they wanna sing Katy Perry and
Dennis, although this is clearly, I tried to remain calm. So that's where I was in the laundry mat because our washing machine's broken and I just got back from the passport office that was closed, and I was just like, this
Kat (23:40)
Okay.
!Sam! (23:41)
is not chicken soup for the soul. This is real. She
Kat (23:44)
Yeah.
!Sam! (23:44)
knows. And then and then there was that other part where
Dr. Jen Rafferty (23:49)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
!Sam! (23:51)
later in page four.
I've left countless happy hours and dinner tables feeling misunderstood, even disrespected. And so, like again, speaking to my soul. Thank you, Dr. Jen. I had so much joy in the first four pages that I can't wait to read this book and I can't wait to have a physical copy that I can highlight and dog ear. Because reading on my phone is hard.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (24:15)
Yes, yes. Yes,
yes. I'm excited for you too. Well, you can in in two weeks.
!Sam! (24:20)
Yes.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (24:21)
so so excited about that. And and yeah, it was really important to me to speak to my experiences and to my stories as also a middle school teacher. You know, there's a special type of person who does middle school and really likes it. I loved middle school. And I I don't know that I I would have done
Anything differently. you know, I also taught high school level, I taught pre-K through through fifth grade as well at some points in my career, but middle school was really the crux of what I did, and speaking to those experiences, I think became universal. what I've learned also in working with the thousands of educators I've had through Empowered Educator over the years is that what's personal is universal. And I think so many times people who have a platform are
Afraid to really get vulnerable and share the real thing. But that vulnerability is what makes people want to connect and say, Me too, I'm experiencing that. And I thought it was just me. And so part of my journey over the last five years is to lean in and get really comfortable being vulnerable with my own personal stories because that's the stuff that matters.
!Sam! (25:34)
Mm-hmm.
Kat (25:36)
Well, it's so relatable, right? Like I I I think it was on one of your emails. 'cause immediately after the PD I was like, my gosh, I love all these things. And so I also like on your email feed and you had this story about the granola bar and crying and the right, like s like I j it just I could really relate to in education or in life, right? Like you never know what's gonna be the straw that kind of bricks.
!Sam! (26:05)
Yeah.
Kat (26:08)
And I think in teaching, a lot of times it is like you're not it's hard to take care of yourself because you're taking care of so many people. And when your body stops you, like it tells you you didn't eat, you're all done, now you have an autoimmune issue. Or right, or like now you're in hives, or now you're
Dr. Jen Rafferty (26:27)
Yeah, yes.
Kat (26:28)
in and now you're in trouble. And
!Sam! (26:32)
Mm-hmm.
Kat (26:33)
And if you're in a situation like mine, sometimes you're blamed for it. I do think that's very common that you then get blamed. or you're told to go take the bubble bath and you'll be back in 24 hours, or you're ashamed because you wanted to do the mental health day. And I think as systems and leaders start to, and we talked about this too, Dr. Dunn last week. Like to change the system. I, as one person, am changing a system.
But in community, I can disrupt that system. And that's what because also my work was into like, how do we sh keep showing up in a system that's trying to break us? Or whether it's intended or not, it it's it's happening. We're burning out. We're we have a shortage, right? We're not funded. But you had a an example from I think your home state that you said like you got to see the work over a course of
Four years? I don't know if you want to touch on that a little.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (27:36)
Yeah, yeah. I
sure. I mean, I have I have several school districts that I work with that have started with me from when I started my company. So I've had this beautiful vantage point of seeing organizational transformation happen. And so often when folks want to make big change, the impatience becomes the sabotage because it's not happening fast enough.
And like you alluded to, you know, organizations don't change until people change. And the only person you have any agency in changing is yourself. And so once you start to make some shifts, and you and you and you and me and the people next to me individually, that's when you really start to see the ripple effect grow and an an organization start to shift, shift the way that people talk to each other, shift the way
Their expectations are, how they communicate, how they regulate themselves, what's the morale, what's the tone, what do we value here? All of that starts to shift. But we need to zoom out and know that, you know, while four years when we're in it feels like a long time, or the the days are long, but the years are short, kind of a thing. You know, zooming out four years, five years in an educational system really isn't that much time.
Kat (29:00)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (29:02)
And so it's been really beautiful to be able to work with school districts year after year and and watching them and being a part of of their growth in this journey.
Kat (29:14)
And and that's what I liked so much in our conversations and then like within the book is that like that it then feeds the activism piece, right? Because of that's my why, right? So my why to pick up your book and continue reading it is like, wow, in chapter one, Dr. Jen saw me for what I'm trying to do. And I think too in the scheme of cause in our conversation, you're like,
Yeah, well, it's you know, four years that it's been or five years, and it's like, wow, that's not that long. And I do think like reflecting on like in this space feels long, right? but it really isn't. And there is another podcast that I listen to called Five to Four, and they talk a lot about activism. They talk about how
You don't know that you're towards the finish line until like you just don't know. And really there is no finish line, right? Like we're constantly trying to keep the conversation going and how do we keep showing up for each other and how do I support you when ooh, maybe your light is a little bit dim right now, right? So really understanding that, you know, and we can we can use civil rights as an example, right? Like
when the Montgomery bus boycott started, like nobody knew the end of when, you know, government was going to shift. You don't while you're in it, you don't know when it will happen. And so I I just having that conversation with you was helpful to me to like remember like, wait, these are all little pieces that are growing and building. And even with my boss like a few years ago we had a speaker come in and talk about burnout. And
It was no Dr. Jen, just putting it out there. And it wasn't necessarily toxic positivity talk, but it didn't go this extra step. And and and that's okay, right? Because there's a space to start the conversation. And within that space, me and my boss were we had chatted afterward, and she knows that my work is on burnout. And she was talking about how like in the past.
Leadership was like, Well, you would stay, you needed to stay late to fix that, right? Like you were expected to do that. And I said, But were you? Or should we do that? Is that something we should like set as an expectation? And she was, you know, having worked in this in education for a long time, she like stopped and was like, Yeah, well, maybe maybe I shouldn't have done that. Maybe, right? And and it's not like it was bad that you did that, but
that feeds this it feeds the burnout, right? Like and you're allowed
Dr. Jen Rafferty (32:09)
Sure. Yeah.
Kat (32:11)
to set a boundary if you I don't have anything else left for that right now. And that's okay. Right. And so I do think some of that I know for sure in my department things are changing that way. and so I'm I'm very excited to share this book with everyone in there. But yeah, and
But it's like I mean we're talking like a global movement of
Dr. Jen Rafferty (32:37)
Yes, that's what I'm talking about. A global movement. It it needs to be. But it for for me, it's this is a very backdoor way of making change.
Kat (32:46)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (32:47)
This is this is not the like bang down the door kind of change that we're making here at at in this juncture. You know, Empowered Educator again is just reminding everybody and and giving them the tools that they need to continue to remember their agency.
You know, we we so easily become victims of our circumstances and our emotions that we forget that we get to drive the bus. And no one has been taught or told how to do this, let alone modeled, right? You know, even just the research and neuroplasticity is is relatively new. So understanding and leveraging your neurobiology is a whole new way to approach everything that that we're here for. And to your point too.
What I what I was hearing is as we zoom out, it is so important to celebrate those small wins. Because when your eye is just on this destination, but then also knowing that that final destination point is always moving, that alone leads to burnout because we're never feeling like we're getting anywhere. But if we take a moment and stop and look around and look behind us and say, wow.
Look how far I've come from last year, from last month, from yesterday, from this morning, from five minutes ago when I was feeling it. Now I'm feeling much better, working through something that needed to come out. Those little wins need to be celebrated,
Kat (34:15)
Mm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (34:16)
vocalized, shared. Because if we're talking about leveraging our neurobiology, when we pay attention to those things and we shine light and we celebrate.
We're creating opportunities for dopamine to come flowing through our bloodstream. And when we talk to people about them, oxytocin and our brain wants to do more of that thing. And that will continue to give us the fuel that we need when things feel hard. But we gloss over those little things because it doesn't feel like a big deal. It doesn't feel shiny enough, or we're afraid.
To stand out and toot our own horns because we don't want to make anyone else feel bad. That's part of, and I talked about that a lot in chapter 10. That's part of the culture that we get to shift as an empowered educator by celebrating ourselves, celebrating each other, and then in turn making it safe to celebrate our students and have them celebrate themselves and each other.
Kat (35:08)
Mm. Yeah.
The trickle effect. And I do think that
Dr. Jen Rafferty (35:13)
Mm.
Kat (35:13)
being in the present is so important. especially especially around high achievers, right? Because like I feel like it's never enough, right? I remember getting my PhD and the secretary said to me, so now what are you gonna do? It was just like, Well, I don't know, that almost killed me. so we're just
So and and I don't know who is cited as this is more like motivational, but like the statement of remember when you wished for what you have right now. And like we just don't sit in it. And nor we're and I feel like we're told not to, right? Like keep moving, keep moving. Like very like neoliberal, like
Dr. Jen Rafferty (35:58)
Yeah.
Kat (35:59)
capitalist, well, we got that. We need more, we need more, we need more.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (36:05)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That that reminds me of a book. I don't know if you read it, by Devon Price, Laziness Does Not Exist. It's it's a great, great book. a big activist for LGBTQ rights.
Kat (36:20)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (36:21)
their I think this was one of of their many books, but that was the one that spoke to me especially because just like what you were saying, Sam, in the first four pages, I felt very seen as an
Over functioning, overachieving perfectionist that you know, in my spare moments they went as far as being like, and then you're on Duolingo because you've got five extra minutes to spare. So you might as well be learning something. And it's like, what is what are they seeing me like that? Totally called me out. but to to your point, Kat, you know, we live in a culture of do more, your productivity equals your worth. And that also is a lie. It's just not.
True. And so sitting in the present moment or taking time to just be quiet, rest, reflect, celebrate yourself isn't part of the culture. And it's such a disservice to how we actually say that we want to be. Nothing changes if nothing changes. And so every time you do something different, you are disrupting the inertia of same old, same old, same old.
And that in and of itself gets to be celebrated, which is also why, you know, what we do in Empowered Educator is in community.
Kat (37:38)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (37:39)
We build community here because we can't do this in isolation and have this sustainable change. So having conversations like this with you and then bringing it back to the the empowered educators who are doing the work every day, it completely and exponentially grows every single day.
Kat (38:00)
Definitely. And I think too, like, I know even just since Sam and I started the podcast, whenever we get somebody mentioned something from the podcast, it's like, you know, that sat with me, or I bought that book, or I did this thing, or I tried that. All of those pieces are so much momentum, right? Like to to come back to this space
Dr. Jen Rafferty (38:22)
Yes.
Kat (38:22)
in community and to celebrate. I am forty five. sorry.
!Sam! (38:27)
I'm just gonna inject someone
did say cousin Katie on mom's side your ideas have been stupid. So that's from episode one. You don't know Dr.
Kat (38:36)
yeah, that's from that's from the early episodes where Yeah.
!Sam! (38:40)
Jen. It's okay.
Kat (38:42)
But our
cousin Katie, she
Dr. Jen Rafferty (38:43)
I don't know episode one.
Kat (38:45)
met Arnie Duncan. The Yeah, and he had
Dr. Jen Rafferty (38:48)
Mm.
Kat (38:49)
some bad ideas. And she called him out.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (38:51)
Mm.
Kat (38:53)
So anyway, so we're just
Dr. Jen Rafferty (38:54)
Okay.
Kat (38:55)
we're working on some different stickers that but like it's funny when something resonates with somebody and comes back. And I actually I'm gonna pull this around to Dr. Jen, but before I was before Sam was
was adding that I was gonna say, well, I'm 45 and I really wanted to take this idea over here, but then I forgot what it was. And that's because I'm 45. And so I'm just gonna leave space for that. And but taking different things. So I told Dr. Jen that I used one of her favorite breath techniques and one of my professional developments I did this year. And the discussion was about like
using breathing to regulate your nervous system. And we have to be taught to do that because our nervous system is so activated at so many right at so many spaces. And one of my favorite responses that that you had in this space, because it was all right, I think it was like 120 people in this too small of a room, you needed the big hall. Don't they know
Anyway, next time.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (40:07)
Next time.
Kat (40:11)
but people were in a safe vulnerable space vulner vul vulnerable space to to tell you the truth. Like I'm off the top of my head, I can't remember what type of classroom the woman was in, but I know for sure when you're in a self-contained, emotionally impaired style type classroom, things are moving fast and things can happen very fast. And
The person's point was basically, I don't even know where I'm going to take the breath or get the rage out. And you're like, well, and you you showed everyone how to scream into like their sh the pocket of their elbow. And I taught that at my PD because I learned it from you. And then I showed it. And then people that attended that PD were like, my gosh, it's my favorite thing. And it really was helping them.
And so you I think that you bring a lot of things that people may have heard from other spaces, but it's done in a way that you actually do it and you use it, right? And so box breathing wasn't something that was new to me. But when I read your book, guess what I've been doing every day? That I sit in my car, right? I'm okay, I'm breathing in for four, I'm holding it. I'm exhaling for four and I'm holding it.
And I'm not starting the car until I do that. Or I'm not going in the building until that happens. And you did that. Because I wasn't making it a habit before this, right? I was like, yada yada, thanks. Stop dysregulating me. Like society,
!Sam! (41:52)
Yeah.
Kat (41:53)
right? And I was very bitter. And you made this space of like, well, we know that that's we know it's bad.
It is bad and it is hard. And
Dr. Jen Rafferty (42:06)
Mm-hmm.
Kat (42:07)
sometimes you are only gonna be able to go in the corner and scream in your elbow. Like or nook. I don't know what we would call it. But but I think
Dr. Jen Rafferty (42:15)
Yeah yeah. Yeah. Either it's either works.
Kat (42:17)
to give that space to like acknowledge, I'm giving you these tools and I know I know it's hard to put the tools in place. But even if you try one, it might make a difference. And I I just felt like that really resonated with me and then
You know, and then I'm a I'm adding it to my PDs and right, like so in community, I I just love that. And if you do get a chance to see Dr. Jen Rafferty at a PD or you're going to, I don't know if if you are often at the big like AFT conferences and those type of conferences, or and you can speak to that a little bit more right at the end, but definitely worth going to.
Right. Even if you have been educated in everything she's telling you about. And I will say when I signed up for the different sections, I was trying to stretch myself to be like, okay, I know a lot about burnout. So, and there was a lot of choices on burnout on that conference. And I don't know what I didn't, I only went to yours. And everything else I picked was community. and I don't know what made me like.
selectures but it was my favorite thing and now Dr. Jen can't get rid of me. Sorry.
!Sam! (43:35)
Yeah.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (43:36)
Well, I'm so glad you did. And I'm so glad it worked out that way. But you know, I think part of it is I, like I said before, I am a practitioner of the work. So, you know, I'm not just speaking to these practices theoretically. I have context for it. You know, I I can tell you when my box breathing has fallen off and I ignore my breathing break alarms, and I can talk about how.
my body was so overwhelmed and I'm just sitting on my floor in my office crying because I need to let it out. I I can talk about the difficult conversations I have with my kids and they're like, Mom, what's going on with your tone right now? So, you know, I you know that's
!Sam! (44:16)
What's going on with your film right now?
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:19)
yeah, although I'll tell no, they were really, but that's the
!Sam! (44:21)
That's
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:22)
thing. They're they're in this work, right? So it it was just like, hey, what's what's happening with your tone right now? That's literally how my 14 year old talks
!Sam! (44:28)
And it's like,
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:29)
to me. And
Kat (44:30)
Yeah, but that would like NOTING
!Sam! (44:30)
Yay.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:31)
Right. S
!Sam! (44:33)
I'm Gen
X and it's like
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:34)
Yeah, right.
Kat (44:36)
Yes.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:38)
Well, we have this
!Sam! (44:38)
Yeah.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:39)
this beautiful language now in our household where we can talk about these things in in a way that is regulated and we're not totally triggering
Kat (44:47)
Yeah.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:47)
ourselves
!Sam! (44:47)
Yeah.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (44:48)
all of the time. Of course it you know it happens, but we know how to handle that when it does also. So, you know, I'm I'm not coming in here saying you really should do a box breath and this is how you do it. This is how I live my life also. So that vulnerability piece, that sharing, I think.
is another differentiator of how we operate here in Empowered Educator. And so do all of my staff. You know, everybody who does any coaching or is any doing anything in the company, but especially forward facing and and working with our our clients and our teachers, they they need to be walking the walk, which allows for that integrity of of our of our company and our message.
Kat (45:33)
Well, that's a good segue because another thing we had chatted about was I had let Dr. Jen know about this year where I was like really regulated. I would wake up and before I was even allowed to go down the stairs, I went to a quiet space and I did my meditation and I did my breathing. And what I had shared with Dr. Jen is I then got to this space of like, I had like lost my
rage. So like I almost what did I can't remember what you said. I I like bypassed the emotion because I was like to me it almost felt like I was too regulated, but that's not what I was, I'm sure. So I don't know if you
!Sam! (46:15)
Yeah.
Kat (46:15)
if anybody like is practicing these things and then I can you speak a little bit to like I don't know you have
Dr. Jen Rafferty (46:25)
Sure.
Kat (46:25)
like kind of this shift but it's like wait now I'm just like not feeling anything here in this
Thanks. That's what I did to myself a little bit.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (46:33)
Yeah.
Well, I think there's there could be a couple of things happening with that. You know, similarly to the toxic positivity, you know, it's it's so easy to say, okay, well, I'm gonna be a perfectionist about my regulation and be so regulated all of the time. I'm gonna get
Kat (46:46)
it was. A plus plus plus.
!Sam! (46:49)
Yeah.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (46:52)
I'm gonna get all the gold stars for how regulated I am, and then, you know, make conscious choices to just not feel the things that
get you going, like that anger or that rage that that you so wanted to feel and and not be and get get lost with that and not be in touch with that anymore. You know, having a regulated nervous system does not mean that you are floating around on Cloud Nine singing kumbaya all day. What a regulated nervous system means is that your your peaks aren't as high
And your lows maybe aren't as low, and you're able to get to more of a homeostasis more quickly. That's it. Because if you're if if you were never in your sympathetic nervous system state, there'd be something biologically wrong because you're you are meant to detect threats, you
Kat (47:45)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (47:46)
are meant to feel things. And so if you're not feeling the things, that's a really important moment to say, hey.
What's going on here and get really curious about it. you know, there's also a time as you're doing this work and your priorities change, sometimes things maybe aren't going to bother you as much as they did, and that's okay. the important piece to remember is to get curious, ask better questions, and continue to act from a place of alignment of who you want to be and
That gets to be congruent with your thoughts and your feelings and your actions and the language that you speak. And if that fire is something that is really important to you, then that's an opportunity to get really curious about, well, what what gets me lit up? And perhaps that that light looks or even feels different than it did before because you're coming from a different place and you are a different person
Kat (48:49)
Yeah, you know.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (48:50)
now.
So, you know, none of these are a prognosis, so
Kat (48:53)
No, no.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (48:55)
to speak. That's not that's not what it is. but what it but what it allows you to do is is open the door to a whole lot of really good questions to ask. Sometimes why am I feeling like this is not the best question. a better question would be, what do I need right now? What is my body trying to tell me? What do I feel is is
The gap between where I'm at right now and where I want to be, those are much better questions. Why am I feeling like this? And that we ask that of ourselves all of the time to like justify what's going on. But the truth is, your subconscious is gathering information all of the time. You could have smelled something as you walked into the house that.
triggered a memory that is below your conscious awareness, that now all of a sudden you're in this grumpy mood and you have no idea why. So why am I feeling like this way is not really always a
Kat (49:49)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (49:50)
helpful question. asking what do I need? What is my body trying to tell me, those will glean and and yield better answers that you can actually action.
Kat (50:00)
Yay. I love it. and also Dr. Jen does such a beautiful job of explaining the nervous system and parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system and your beautiful image of the vagus nerve that you use in your presentation. And I mean it's very well done. And that is not an easy thing to do. so I'm gonna leave that one to Dr. Jen with
Dr. Jen Rafferty (50:24)
Thank you.
Kat (50:24)
her PhD in neuroscience, right?
Dr. Jen Rafferty (50:28)
It's educational
psychology, but a a huge affinity for for cognitive neuroscience, yes.
Kat (50:33)
Yes.
so we have just a few minutes left. And
Dr. Jen Rafferty (50:37)
Yeah.
Kat (50:40)
so my plan is that we're gonna talk about our petals of power, which on Wellness Dumpster Fire, we acknowledge the dumpster that we're in and
!Sam! (50:50)
Yeah.
Kat (50:50)
the fire, but we're looking for that hope, right? And that what is is keeping us coming back, and how do we keep coming back? And that's our sunflower.
And the story of that beautiful logo that our sister drew for us was that I actually drove by a sewer grate in my subdivision and a sunflower was growing out of it. And so that's where we got our logo. And I know for sure in the world of special education, or right, and it doesn't have to be about education, right? Like in the world of
Parenting a newborn baby in the world of changing jobs, in the world of you know, working under a very difficult system, we need to find that hope in that space that keeps us coming back. And so that's our petal of power. And so, were you able to think of a petal of power? Would you like us to go first, Dr. Jen?
Dr. Jen Rafferty (51:49)
No, I'm I'm happy to. You know, the I I perpetually wear rose colored glasses on my face. And I've been doing this work long enough to know that not everybody does. I am unapologetic about it. It requires me to picture a better world than what exists right now. And so that helps me see the gaps where I'm I'm not looking at at
The gaps saying, you know, well, it is what it is. You know, in my rose-colored glasses, it's already better. And so that, and I get, I'm getting chills just even articulating this, that allows me the motivation to do the thing. I feel a deep sense of civic duty to do this work.
I remember when I first started teaching, I was maybe 22, 23. I went to my first conference, and all of these older teachers, mostly men, were sharing and doing their sessions. And I remember that young age being like, you know, I have something to say. And there were things that were really working in my classroom. And I felt a deep sense of responsibility to share it.
Because if I was doing something that worked, then maybe it could help someone else and change another kid's life. And so my my rose colored glasses are my petal of power. And that's something that is is maybe in internal for me and in how I see the world. but after thinking about that question last week, that's that was my knee jerk. That's what came up for me.
Kat (53:33)
I love
that.
!Sam! (53:34)
Love it.
Kat (53:36)
so my petal of power is that I met Dr. Jen Rafferty about a year ago in Washington, DC. And look where we are right now. Right? And so back to those rose-colored glasses, like Jen Dr. Jen had to make like the space comfortable enough that somebody that never met her and
does similar work and has similar voice that I want to share as well. Felt like I could go up to her and be like, I want to do this work too. I'm doing this work. How do we can I work with you? Can I write? Can we talk about it? And here we are and she has a book and I love that. And I think that a huge petal is that well I appreciate you coming on Sam Sam and our podcast, Sam and my podcast, but
The fact that like I'm so happy for you, right? Like that's community. And you're kind enough to like stay engaged with me, but also, my gosh, Dr. Jen, you did it. And that is really exciting. And so that's my petal.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (54:48)
Thank you. Yes. Yes to all of that. That's what this is all about. Always.
!Sam! (54:53)
So
I have two. So one, Dr. Jen, I'm so excited to read your physical book on August tw second,
Kat (55:01)
Ha ha
!Sam! (55:02)
right? Is that when it comes out or the fourth? August fourth.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (55:05)
August fourth, yes.
!Sam! (55:06)
So I'll pre-order it after recording right now. and
Dr. Jen Rafferty (55:11)
Great.
!Sam! (55:12)
so with my own personal burnout, but without saying too much, as a middle school sex educator in a federal system.
My whole why was taken away under executive orders. And so, what gives me hope right now as I'm navigating a different way for me, is this lawsuit that three teachers in Iowa won. they were Pride Club sponsors, and
I have to read it So three Iowa teachers won $150,000 settlement from the Ankinese Community School District after being suspended and investigated for facilitating a student gender sexuality alliance or GSA drag show. So under the settlement, the teachers will receive $27,000 each, with the remaining going to their attorney fee fees. So people on the right side of history.
won in our system and so that gives me a bit of hope. So
Kat (56:23)
Yay.
Yay.
!Sam! (56:26)
Also
Crystal Castle
Kat (56:29)
yeah. Dr. Jen, Sam and I are of the 80s, late 70s to the 80s, and we like
!Sam! (56:36)
You might not know.
Kat (56:40)
the masters of the universe. And so whenever we do the petals of power, Sam is like always hearing this song, Crystal Castle, from She-Ra
Dr. Jen Rafferty (56:49)
Love it. Love
Kat (56:52)
Also, we were from a a big
Dr. Jen Rafferty (56:52)
it.
Kat (56:53)
family, so you had to
!Sam! (56:54)
Yeah.
Kat (56:54)
be like I don't know, you had to be pretty vocal with your agency there. so Dr. Jen, I'm very impressed that we stayed on time.
So thank you so much for being on our podcast. Sam and I don't usually stay on time. so that is pretty big deal. And can you leave us with telling all of our listeners where to I'm a big fan of the pre order because I know that's really important. So pre order and then if you didn't order by August fourth, like order your book. Can you share that with us?
Dr. Jen Rafferty (57:31)
Sure, you can get your book at empowerededucator.com slash book and that'll take you to all of the places and spaces for you to get it and some other really great information there. And you can always find me on Instagram at Jen Rafferty underscore.
Kat (57:46)
Excellent. Well, thank you, Dr. Jen Rafferty. We're so glad that you're here on the pod. And I hope all of our friends are off ordering the book already. So I'm so excited for it to come.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (58:00)
Yes. Thank
you so much for having me. Yeah, it was this was great. I'm I'm looking forward to continuing our conversation in the future. Thank you.
Kat (58:08)
thank you.
!Sam! (58:11)
All right, so we'll close out with will be so fit? Okay. We pretend to work
Kat (58:14)
yes. So I don't know if Doctor Jen knows
!Sam! (58:17)
out in the basement, Doctor Jen, so
Kat (58:20)
no, so if
Sam's lawsuit goes south, we I've always said like, Well, you can move into my basement, but then I turned my basement into a gym and so now we're like we'll
we'll be so fit if you live down here.
Dr. Jen Rafferty (58:34)
Yeah. I love it.
!Sam! (58:35)
And we'll start a podcast in the basement.
Kat (58:37)
We did. I'm in I'm in my basement
as we speak. So we'll be so fit.
!Sam! (58:41)
be so fit.
