WWE SMACKDOWN POST-SHOW (9/18) - Keller & Corbridge discuss Sami making it past Day 7, Punk interferes, Cody makes his case, MITB qualifiers

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Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
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Pro Wrestling Post Show.
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It's time to talk this week's WWE Friday Night Smackdown.
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Well, we knew there'd be shenanigans, there'd be interference, there'd
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be distractions. We got that.
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What we didn't know is that Kevin Owens would not
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raise his shoulder on a three count and cause... everyone
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to kind of stop, even Corey Gray's like, people are
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confused here, what's going on? I don't know if he
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was having a chance to like rewatch and study, but
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I don't know if he was legit knocked out by
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Punk's belt shot. Like Punk could be, you know, Punk
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could go, oops, if he like actually knocked him down
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or if he thought that was a finish, you know,
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he just got confused or whatever, but it's weird because,
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so just for, Sammy retained and got the pin, but
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it was after other stuff that happened, but a little
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bit before that, after other stuff happened, which will detail
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Sammy had KO covered and KO didn't.
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Lift his shoulder.
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The ref had to awkwardly stop his count right before
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three and pretend like his shoulder was lifted. Sammy realized
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what was going on and reached over and lifted Kevin
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shoulders up slowly and just a little bit, but it
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was already too late. Sammy then complained to the ref,
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even though he should be thanking the ref. So it's
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too bad. That's the talking point coming out of this,
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but it is a talking point. What did you see, Eric?
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Were you confused watching it live?
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I was very confused watching it live, Wade. And I
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had to rewind it for a second to try to
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make some sense of what happened. And like you mentioned,
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the key thing was that Zayn seemed to try to
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help Owens raise his shoulder. And there was no reasonable
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explanation why Zayn would be upset after that at the referee.
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So clearly something was wrong.
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Well, OK, I'll say that he should have been mad
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at the ref for stopping his three count. but i
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know what you're saying though because you're saying sammy raised
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his shoulder but we're not supposed to notice.
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That sure sure sure um exactly.
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Yeah i mean that's how confusing it is yeah.
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It's very confusing but what it doesn't make any sense
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at all is if the match was just about to
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end on another haluva kick anyway yeah they could have
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just ended the match where it was at there was
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no reason for him to even kick out there to
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begin with.
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Yeah no that's a really good point and So the
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ref stopped his count. Sammy lifted his shoulder. Fans chanted
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CM Punk, thanking Punk for, we'll get into.
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All the details.
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There's too much to cover in terms of everything that
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happened while we're talking about the shoulder thing. Then Sammy
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asked the ref to explain himself. And then he just
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turned back after Kevin Owens stood up and gave him
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a little kick. So like there was no chapter after
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that moment. So man, you know what I'm thinking? I mean,
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as I'm talking it through here, because of course the
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show just ended, did the ref screw up? Was the
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ref supposed to count three?
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My original thought was that the ref screwed up. But
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then with everything... But then when you watch it over again,
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it looked like... So the ref goes to count three.
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And he stops his count seemingly inexplicably because Owens had
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not moved. And then almost in slow motion, Owens starts
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to raise his shoulder off the mat almost as if
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to say, oops.
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That wasn't supposed to happen. I better try to cover
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for this. So it's very possible the ref screwed up,
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but it also looked like Sammy tried to help things.
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So that's what confused me even more.
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Yeah.
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Adam kid points out, and this is kind of a
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broader discussion. Kale could survive a clean loss. Let's we'll
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talk about that. All the shenanigans, everything, but kale can
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survive losing by clean belt shot without a halluva kick too.
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So I wonder if the ref thought that was a
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fault that was supposed to be a kick out in
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the ref was wrong. And then the Sammy complaining was
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actually Sammy calling the audible.
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I don't know. Maybe we'll, maybe we'll find out.
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Yeah. It just goes back to a referee should just
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make the count when they watch TV shows. Then you
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avoid things like this.
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I was just in the PW torch VIP forum earlier today.
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We just launched it last week. Go VIP side of
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the form. It's a really fun place for a daily
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conversation with a lot of smart fans.
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It's very.
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Civil and it's a gated community and it's just people
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who are fans of what we do here at the
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torch all of us um and they said what would
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you like wrestlers to do differently and one of the
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things i said is i'd like wrestlers to actually raise
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their shoulder after like saves in a tag match not
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just lay there and the ref has to stop his
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count and and also and i've had like wrestlers uh
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one in particular lately like say wrestlers need to actually
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make sure their shoulders are down during pins like though
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there's a lot of sloppiness going on and then i
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pointed out like i had a couple decades ago pushed
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hard that If wrestlers don't actually lift their shoulder on
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a kickout, like they just, they're still, their shoulders, the
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refs just count the pin. And WWE actually ended up
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doing it. And they did it only at house shows.
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They don't want to screw up TVs and pay-per-views, but
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they did house shows to send a message to wrestlers.
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You guys need to actually lift your damn shoulders. We're
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not going to cover for you if you're not paying
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attention because wrestlers just go, well, it's just a show.
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We're just going to be kind of sloppy. And I
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don't mean to be like, say they're not being professional
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about it, but I think they just sort of get
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in a groove and go through the motions. And we
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see that with too many things. and, and so it's,
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my point is it's been done before where.
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WWE did this again.
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It was like 20 years ago, but they're like, if
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your shoulders are down, refs count three, we'll figure it.
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We'll clean up the mess later. Wrestlers need to start
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lifting their shoulder. It just looks bad. So I don't,
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but I don't want to be hard on the ref
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and I don't want to be hard on KO. Cause
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we just don't know right now, I guess. Um, I
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don't want to belabor the point beyond this. I mean,
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I think you could look at it either way, the
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way I'm thinking it through. Um, and I'd be interested
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in what, what people in the chat have to say. Um,
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And maybe it just doesn't really matter. It just wasn't great.
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I mean, Corey Graves, obviously it was expecting something. He
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thought it was odd what was going on there.
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Yeah.
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And it's a shame because it did kind of take
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the luster off of what was a really strong main
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event and a strong show even.
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Yep.
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Yeah.
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We won't be talking about this for the first six
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minutes if it didn't happen. We've talked about other stuff.
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So I am fine moving on. I mean, I think
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we had to cover that because it was a botch.
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It was awkward.
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Uh dural by the way just says in the chat
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ko doesn't usually mess up but i could tell he
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was gassed but they wanted him to do the kick
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out after the bell shot like how punk kicked out
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last week so yeah so that i would i would
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lean that way as that was what was supposed to
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happen and then for whatever reason um he did it so.
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One saving grace they have from this is that considering
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sammy's current character he can find a way to spin
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this into something they can use if they want to
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Totally certain of that.
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Well, we should actually explore the pot. I want to
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explore the possibility, even preemptively saying they wouldn't do that
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on purpose. But is it a happy accident? Sammy, Sammy
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could rant to go.
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What the referee? He stopped his count last week. I
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reached my hand under it.
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I could tell his shoulder was still down like he
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could even claim that he wasn't lifting it. He was
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checking to make sure. and, and go, there's a conspiracy
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against me and, and they didn't want me to win.
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They wanted Kevin.
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I mean, yeah, they could actually turn that into it. Um,
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Derek Mitchell gives his thoughts on this, by the way,
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I thought the ref Ryan Trent screwed up the finish
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and Sammy had to redo.
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The lube kick.
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I missed the days of Tommy young, got to have
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a eighties reference from Derek, no matter what point he's making.
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And I'm here for it. I'm here for it. Uh, Derek, um, Yeah.
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So if we're going back in the storyline, he also
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screwed up in the beginning by, again, allowing a someone
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to attack someone from behind and then just start the match.
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So from there, when that happened, though, I will say
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the way that the match started, I'm like, OK, here's
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Sammy's first fuel on how he can be annoyed later.
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And it did make me wonder if maybe Owens might
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win the title tonight. I was like, Sammy already had
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his built in reason to be upset. And I was
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starting to really kind of do mental gymnastics of, okay,
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we don't want to ruin the credibility of the championship.
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And we've also had a lot of long championship reigns
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in the past five years. But what if they really
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just did a hopscotch thing with the title for the
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next three months and had it bounce back and forth
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between like four or five individuals over the next six months?
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I was like, you don't really see that very often.
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It actually could be pretty appealing. Yeah, yeah.
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So playing it like Sammy made and I thought it
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was good. Sammy made a big deal out of saying,
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I don't want to lose a title in seven days.
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I already lost in nine. And so that added a
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sense of, oh, Sammy's going to lose it in seven.
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And when you kind of imagine that happening, you're thinking,
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would that be the worst thing? To have KO win
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in seven, and then you go to the next couple
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of PLEs, you have someone else winning, and then you
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have money in the bank, and someone cashing it in quick.
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And you don't want to do it all the time,
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but kind of a hot potato, bang, bang, bang, especially
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when it feels I mean, Gunther probably stands out above
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everybody else in terms of how he's protected and how
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he's pushed more than Balor, KO, Insami, Gargano, of course, Balor,
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I think I said. And then you just saw you
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have Punk and Gunther kind of at the top, but
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Punk's kind of getting screwed over.
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So he's being protected. Gunther's a heel.
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So I'm just kind of thinking, you don't want Gunther
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to win it and lose it. Like, I think that
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would diminish him, no matter what the circumstances. But everybody, well,
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and I don't think you want Gargano to have the
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title because that just sort of turns it into kind
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of a joke.
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00:10:49.879 --> 00:10:53.379
So, but Balor, if KO won and then Balor beat him. Oh,
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00:10:53.419 --> 00:10:55.259
and Orton too, by the way. I didn't mention him.
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Orton's involved. He can get his 15th.
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Yeah.
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00:10:57.620 --> 00:11:01.220
So, I don't know. It really got my mind racing because, like,
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00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:03.399
as a fan, I really don't want Sammy to lose
247
00:11:03.470 --> 00:11:05.929
because he's the person I'm enjoying the most.
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00:11:06.330 --> 00:11:06.450
Mm-hmm.
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00:11:07.009 --> 00:11:09.309
But from a story perspective, it's not something we see
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00:11:09.350 --> 00:11:12.909
very often where this many title contenders. And I thought
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00:11:12.929 --> 00:11:15.070
that if they could carry this up through the Rumble,
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00:11:15.509 --> 00:11:17.769
imagine how interesting a Royal Rumble could be if you
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00:11:17.830 --> 00:11:21.190
have eight or nine legitimate contenders from one show for
254
00:11:21.210 --> 00:11:24.779
a championship in the Rumble. And you just don't see that.
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00:11:24.980 --> 00:11:26.720
And so I think it would be something that would
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00:11:26.740 --> 00:11:27.440
be very interesting.
257
00:11:28.419 --> 00:11:30.080
Mark Biscotti says, Sammy Luce and tonight could have been
258
00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:32.460
an interesting chapter in his ultimate title win in Saudi mania.
259
00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:33.919
This was a total schmazz.
260
00:11:34.789 --> 00:11:36.460
Crofton in all caps says, yes, it would be the
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00:11:36.500 --> 00:11:38.919
worst thing. He is waiting to join us on the
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00:11:38.940 --> 00:11:41.539
show as a caller. He can elaborate on that, but
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00:11:41.559 --> 00:11:42.980
I think he's saying, Eric, it would be the worst
264
00:11:43.019 --> 00:11:44.539
thing to do rapid fire title changes.
265
00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:47.080
I'm pretty sure I know what he's thinking or where
266
00:11:47.100 --> 00:11:48.799
he's coming from on this one, but we'll see what
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00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:49.200
he says.
268
00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:51.080
Yep.
269
00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:54.299
Mark Biscotti says, Hey, kale winning made sense to add
270
00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:57.320
another layer in a story with CM Punk. So let's,
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00:11:58.139 --> 00:11:59.779
let's pause, introduce ourselves. And then I want to bring
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00:11:59.820 --> 00:12:02.879
up CM Punk right afterwards and his role in this.
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00:12:02.919 --> 00:12:06.529
Cause he's, with all due respect to Sammy and Kevin Owens,
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00:12:06.970 --> 00:12:11.740
Punk is the most recent. He has been in more
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00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:14.440
top main event matches than those two lately. He's the
276
00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:19.299
bigger star at the moment. Everything that they're doing in
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00:12:19.340 --> 00:12:22.539
this story, I think the number one concern is how
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00:12:22.580 --> 00:12:24.940
does it affect CM Punk, if you look at management.
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00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:27.220
I think they care about Kevin Owens and Sammy. They're
280
00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:30.610
not just extras. But I want to look at and
281
00:12:30.649 --> 00:12:33.830
examine the lens of, of house, how punk is being
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00:12:34.230 --> 00:12:36.149
booked in this too, and how everything affects him.
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00:12:36.509 --> 00:12:38.710
Sammy story's great. KOs KO.
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00:12:39.450 --> 00:12:42.009
Um, but punk, I'm kind of curious what you think about, um, his,
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00:12:42.110 --> 00:12:46.970
his approach and how they booked him. Your time is valuable.
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Go VIP and listen to our shows commercial free, a
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is valuable, and that's one of the reasons we offer
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VIP membership. pwtorch.com slash govip. This is the Wade Keller
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Pro Wrestling Post Show for Friday, September 18th, 2026. I'm
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Wade Keller, host of the show, editor, publisher, founder of
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the Pro Wrestling Torch Weekly Newsletter. Here's the latest copy.
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Sammy beats Punk to win second WWE title. That's the
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newsletter from this week.
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Issue number 1986. 1986.
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1,986 newsletters published since the late 1980s when I started
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this when I was just a teenager. Go VIP and
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you can read almost all those back issues on demand
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going back to the late 1980s covering Everything that happens
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in the late 1980s. PWTorchVIPinfo.com. PWTorchVIPinfo.com is where you go.
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Tons of benefits in all kinds of different categories when
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ad-free website, mobile and desktop friendly. And also that VIP
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forum I talked about, which we just launched last week.
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We've got VIP members interacting on current events, processing nostalgia,
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hypothetical questions, non-wrestling topics.
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It's been a blast.
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I think it'll pull you away from some of the
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social media stuff that leaves you feeling empty and actually
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feel like you're talking to real people. I just saw
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a stat, 57% of social media posts are bots, are
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AI bots. Someone just did a study on that. So
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stop arguing with AI. bots and AI generated posts just
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to get you worked up and go VIP and join
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like to examine wrestling like you do.
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Cause that's why you're here. PWTorchVIPinfo.com.
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00:14:56.649 --> 00:14:59.389
We are here though to talk SmackDown and I am
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00:14:59.429 --> 00:15:02.220
joined by Eric Corbridge. He is a PWTorch contributor. He
327
00:15:02.500 --> 00:15:05.559
writes the SmackDown TV reports alongside mine on Friday night.
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00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:08.399
So you get two perspectives and two sets of details
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00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:11.039
on what happens on the shows and Eric, welcome back
330
00:15:11.059 --> 00:15:11.580
to the girls' chair.
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00:15:12.460 --> 00:15:14.139
Thanks, Wade. I appreciate it. I'm glad to be here
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00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:17.220
on here for such an exciting show on a SmackDown
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00:15:17.259 --> 00:15:20.500
that's starting to really kind of find its way in
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00:15:20.539 --> 00:15:22.320
a lot of ways. We'll talk about some of the
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00:15:22.340 --> 00:15:24.679
ways where it could be improved, but it's been a
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00:15:24.700 --> 00:15:27.720
good show to watch mostly since it went to two hours.
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00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.179
So we'll see how long that continues, but they're in
338
00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:31.940
a good spot right now.
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00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:33.279
Absolutely.
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00:15:33.580 --> 00:15:36.159
So you can join the conversation. We've got Crofton and
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00:15:36.179 --> 00:15:37.840
Darrell on hold. If you want to be a caller,
342
00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:41.289
there's a link in my Written TV report at PW Torch,
343
00:15:41.330 --> 00:15:41.889
our website.
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00:15:41.929 --> 00:15:43.049
Go there. Click on my report.
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00:15:43.450 --> 00:15:45.490
At the top and bottom is a link to be
346
00:15:45.509 --> 00:15:47.389
a caller. That link changes with every show. So you
347
00:15:47.409 --> 00:15:49.190
got to go to that report to get it. You
348
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can turn your camera off if you want. Just be
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an audio caller like our blog talk radio days or
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be on camera and we'll throw you on the screen
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I encourage more of you to do it.
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On the podcast side of things, subscribe if you haven't yet.
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It is free. Search Wade Keller.
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features our weekly flagship usually drops on Tuesday nights. Uh,
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this week, Jason Powell from progressing.net. Join me for a
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So search Wade Keller, subscribe to that also. And if
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It won't take many of you to get us kind
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And we'd really appreciate that. And the more activity we
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In those popular apps. So search Wade Keller, subscribe to those.
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And while you're at it, search PWTorch to subscribe to
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with a new show each day of the week. I'm
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not really part of that. The new shows are hosted
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So search PWTorch for that. All right, participation on this
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00:17:50.059 --> 00:17:52.440
show includes the aforementioned chat, but you can also email us,
390
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wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com if you want to be part of
391
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the show that way.
392
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I'll check the inbox.
393
00:17:57.440 --> 00:17:59.829
Throughout the show and read your email if you get
394
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in to us either before the show starts or during
395
00:18:01.809 --> 00:18:06.009
our post show. That's wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com. All right, Eric,
396
00:18:06.289 --> 00:18:12.869
CM Punk, he interferes in an ongoing world title match
397
00:18:13.609 --> 00:18:18.410
and Nobody like the whole narrative of WWE is that just,
398
00:18:18.450 --> 00:18:18.789
it's fine.
399
00:18:18.809 --> 00:18:19.529
We're just telling stories.
400
00:18:20.130 --> 00:18:20.349
Yeah.
401
00:18:20.369 --> 00:18:23.700
People want to get revenge. I, I kind of miss
402
00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:26.519
as writing about this in the VIP form, actually, when we're, um,
403
00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:29.440
responding to a clip of Lance Russell and Bill Dundee
404
00:18:29.500 --> 00:18:34.650
and Jerry Lawler in Memphis, um, 40 years ago, uh, How,
405
00:18:34.789 --> 00:18:37.029
you know, there'd be outrage by Lance Russell if somebody
406
00:18:37.069 --> 00:18:39.369
interrupted the sanctity of a world title match. Like, we're
407
00:18:39.390 --> 00:18:40.670
here to find out who the better wrestler is. I
408
00:18:40.670 --> 00:18:42.269
don't care what your... Lance Russell would.
409
00:18:42.089 --> 00:18:44.549
Be like, come on, Bill Dondy.
410
00:18:44.690 --> 00:18:45.190
Get even.
411
00:18:45.549 --> 00:18:47.799
Get your revenge after the match is over. Stop interrupting
412
00:18:47.819 --> 00:18:51.380
world title matches. You'd have this voice of reason. And
413
00:18:51.420 --> 00:18:53.519
now it's just like, just part of storytelling. We're just
414
00:18:53.539 --> 00:18:57.490
here to tell stories and... Everybody does it, but if
415
00:18:57.529 --> 00:19:00.990
a heel does it, he should be fine, suspended, cried, criticized.
416
00:19:01.049 --> 00:19:03.289
He should worry about what the GM is going to think.
417
00:19:03.809 --> 00:19:06.930
Do you think CM Punk faces ramifications for this? Do
418
00:19:07.089 --> 00:19:10.640
Johnny Gargano and Candice LeRae, they're at least talking about it?
419
00:19:11.059 --> 00:19:12.880
You know, I mean, that was covered earlier. It's not
420
00:19:12.900 --> 00:19:16.480
like they're ignoring it, but it's not a big deterrent
421
00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:19.960
if people are interfering in matches, keep getting title shots
422
00:19:20.140 --> 00:19:24.720
or aren't punished or even criticized except in passing in
423
00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:27.380
some sort of flaccid scolding a week later.
424
00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:28.519
What do you think, Eric?
425
00:19:29.380 --> 00:19:35.089
Yeah, it's interesting because for several months, Punk was acting
426
00:19:35.130 --> 00:19:39.789
like a prototype babyface. And it's strange because it's kind
427
00:19:39.809 --> 00:19:41.589
of against his nature, it feels like, but he was
428
00:19:41.609 --> 00:19:45.470
doing a great job with it. And now he's trying
429
00:19:45.509 --> 00:19:48.970
to find his way in between what Cody is trying
430
00:19:49.009 --> 00:19:50.440
to do, which is really trying to act like a
431
00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:53.099
baby face. And then what Orton is trying to do,
432
00:19:53.579 --> 00:19:55.799
which is acting like a total heel, but getting cheered
433
00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:58.079
like a baby face every single time he steps on screen.
434
00:19:59.579 --> 00:20:03.039
But now I fear that when Punk gets involved the
435
00:20:03.059 --> 00:20:06.960
way he did today, at best, I know they're talking about, okay,
436
00:20:07.049 --> 00:20:09.630
all the crazy things that are happening that are ridiculous
437
00:20:09.670 --> 00:20:12.210
and shouldn't happen. At best, we're going to get Aldis
438
00:20:12.230 --> 00:20:15.329
throwing his hands up and just declaring everything ridiculous and
439
00:20:15.369 --> 00:20:17.289
everybody's horrible and they're just going to call it a
440
00:20:17.329 --> 00:20:19.230
wash or they're going to put him in some match
441
00:20:19.269 --> 00:20:19.730
to settle it.
442
00:20:19.730 --> 00:20:20.690
A six pack challenge.
443
00:20:21.190 --> 00:20:23.390
Right, something like that. But it'll never be anything that
444
00:20:23.430 --> 00:20:27.099
holds anyone accountable for what they did. And it continues
445
00:20:27.210 --> 00:20:30.079
to muddy the lines between what a baby face and
446
00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:33.450
a heel should be. And it's frankly why as much
447
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.380
compelling material as they're giving us in the title picture
448
00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:41.339
on SmackDown, across all of WWE, they still have the
449
00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:43.900
problem of you don't know who to cheer for. And
450
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:45.019
that's not helpful.
451
00:20:45.660 --> 00:20:47.539
And it's not about being told who to cheer for.
452
00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:49.640
It's having a reason to cheer for someone. And I
453
00:20:49.660 --> 00:20:53.210
think those are worth differentiating. Like some people go, I
454
00:20:53.230 --> 00:20:54.609
don't want the company to tell me who to cheer.
455
00:20:54.869 --> 00:20:55.309
Well, right.
456
00:20:55.349 --> 00:20:57.650
But they ought to present some characters in a way
457
00:20:58.250 --> 00:21:02.089
where you want to cheer them, not because they're cool
458
00:21:02.210 --> 00:21:06.829
and they give you moments, but because they... are conducting
459
00:21:06.869 --> 00:21:09.789
themselves in a way that the narrative structure and the presentation,
460
00:21:09.809 --> 00:21:12.859
the culture, the presentation, the product says is important. And
461
00:21:13.140 --> 00:21:16.220
that's what gets kind of lost in this discussion is WWE.
462
00:21:16.339 --> 00:21:19.900
The announcers don't really stress it. Um, they don't shame interference.
463
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:23.089
They just neutrally comment on it. Like it just happens.
464
00:21:23.180 --> 00:21:24.849
And we don't, who are we to judge if somebody
465
00:21:24.869 --> 00:21:29.079
is cheating? Um, and, and we're like, again, The whole
466
00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:32.099
everything should be built around. We bring the bell and
467
00:21:32.140 --> 00:21:33.769
put people in the ring to find out who's better.
468
00:21:34.220 --> 00:21:36.170
And we don't find out who's better when there's interference.
469
00:21:36.210 --> 00:21:41.609
And therefore, the institution, the establishment should be against that.
470
00:21:42.150 --> 00:21:42.730
And they're not.
471
00:21:42.769 --> 00:21:44.690
And it goes to your point, Eric, which is when
472
00:21:44.750 --> 00:21:47.089
Kevin Owens attacks Sammy before the bell, when Sammy's holding
473
00:21:47.130 --> 00:21:49.819
his bell up, the ref is rewarding that illegal pre-match
474
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:52.440
attack by calling for the bell while Sammy is down.
475
00:21:53.140 --> 00:21:55.420
I don't think Sammy's going to complain. As you said, Eric,
476
00:21:55.619 --> 00:21:58.480
he should, because that would mean anybody in WWE is
477
00:21:58.519 --> 00:22:00.700
aware of how ridiculous that is, because Tony Khan does
478
00:22:00.740 --> 00:22:05.559
it in AEW, probably worse than WWE. And so it's
479
00:22:05.579 --> 00:22:08.539
just there's so many just go to lazy things.
480
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:10.559
That's what we do. Just do it. That are being done.
481
00:22:11.069 --> 00:22:13.450
But they don't actually always turn into talking points that
482
00:22:13.509 --> 00:22:14.470
forward a storyline.
483
00:22:14.869 --> 00:22:16.630
And what it ends up doing is dulling.
484
00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:20.740
Dulling the edge that should make you emotionally invested in
485
00:22:20.809 --> 00:22:22.750
rooting for somebody to win or lose a title. It
486
00:22:22.789 --> 00:22:26.549
does just become about watching chaos play out. And you know, our,
487
00:22:26.690 --> 00:22:31.690
our chat isn't necessarily representative of the entire wrestling audience,
488
00:22:32.210 --> 00:22:35.940
but my good pointed out, uh, earlier, it is sadly,
489
00:22:36.180 --> 00:22:40.900
I zoned out of the main event, knowing interference was coming. Um,
490
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:44.089
There's just too much of that. Derek Mitchell said, I'm
491
00:22:44.150 --> 00:22:47.410
frustrated with how frequently WWE main events conclude with outside interference.
492
00:22:47.450 --> 00:22:50.849
It's become a predictable entire trope. Ironically, Roman's last two
493
00:22:50.869 --> 00:22:53.859
title defense didn't have any interference.
494
00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:55.420
Eric, go ahead.
495
00:22:56.430 --> 00:22:56.589
Yeah.
496
00:22:56.730 --> 00:22:58.450
And well, and first of all, and that's why Roman's
497
00:22:58.490 --> 00:23:00.660
match against Penta, partly why it was so refreshing.
498
00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:00.920
Yes.
499
00:23:01.660 --> 00:23:03.599
And despite that, that key.
500
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:04.259
Yeah.
501
00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:07.329
And it was okay that the heel one, whether he's
502
00:23:07.369 --> 00:23:08.670
a heel or not. I know he was a heel
503
00:23:08.690 --> 00:23:12.230
that night. That's a different story. So I'll take it
504
00:23:12.269 --> 00:23:17.390
even one step further. You mentioned that there's no repercussions
505
00:23:17.589 --> 00:23:21.069
from upper management on a babyface or anyone doing anything.
506
00:23:21.529 --> 00:23:23.130
I would go so far as to say their lead
507
00:23:23.170 --> 00:23:27.990
play-by-play announcer was encouraging Cody Rhodes to do something dastardly
508
00:23:28.009 --> 00:23:31.210
during his sit-down interview with what's supposed to be the
509
00:23:31.250 --> 00:23:32.430
top babyface in the company.
510
00:23:32.509 --> 00:23:34.880
You couldn't pull the trigger. Even Cody just goes, I'm
511
00:23:34.910 --> 00:23:35.980
not sure I like your phrasing.
512
00:23:36.579 --> 00:23:36.819
Right.
513
00:23:37.099 --> 00:23:39.380
But yet he's encouraging him to do it. It's like, no,
514
00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:40.819
you have to do it. Everyone else is doing it.
515
00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:41.720
You should cave in too.
516
00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:43.160
Yeah. And it does.
517
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:46.619
Like Austin NT13 in the chat says, it's difficult to
518
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:48.519
be invested in a match when you know the interference
519
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:51.339
is coming. SadlerVision3 says, I get the shenanigans are part
520
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:52.829
of the story here. We don't have to accept it.
521
00:23:52.940 --> 00:23:54.069
You don't have to resign yourself to it. But I
522
00:23:54.430 --> 00:23:55.630
get that they're part of the story. But the ref
523
00:23:55.650 --> 00:23:56.670
should have ejected.
524
00:23:56.329 --> 00:23:58.769
Candice and Johnny immediately. It just makes everyone involved in
525
00:23:58.789 --> 00:24:01.549
this look dumb. It makes them look dumb.
526
00:24:01.569 --> 00:24:04.559
But in a way, as Paul Levesque said about John
527
00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:06.940
Cena's ridiculous low IQ idea that he's going to have
528
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:09.910
boring matches on purpose to get heel heat. And Levesque's like, John,
529
00:24:10.450 --> 00:24:13.259
that's going to be heat on the company, not you.
530
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:14.660
Trust me.
531
00:24:15.220 --> 00:24:17.920
The heat is on the company at some point, or
532
00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:20.240
it kind of gets to a point, which we might
533
00:24:20.259 --> 00:24:22.759
be at now, where people are watching and there's so
534
00:24:22.859 --> 00:24:25.220
many things throughout the whole show. I know when I
535
00:24:25.259 --> 00:24:27.019
point them out, some people go, what's the big deal, Wade?
536
00:24:27.059 --> 00:24:27.559
Lighten up.
537
00:24:27.579 --> 00:24:29.220
That's just the way they film things, or that's just
538
00:24:29.269 --> 00:24:32.049
the way things are. but it all adds up to
539
00:24:32.450 --> 00:24:34.849
a product that people watch to be entertained by moments,
540
00:24:34.890 --> 00:24:36.750
but they're not immersed in it. They don't, you don't
541
00:24:36.950 --> 00:24:39.630
get pulled into this world because the world makes no sense.
542
00:24:40.390 --> 00:24:42.630
The world makes no sense. It is just a free
543
00:24:42.710 --> 00:24:46.279
for all of empty scoldings by GMs who then turn
544
00:24:46.299 --> 00:24:49.599
around and reward people with title matches. Um, you watch
545
00:24:49.660 --> 00:24:52.299
matches knowing there's going to be interference or it's an exception.
546
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:54.640
Like you said, Eric with Roman and Penta, but it's
547
00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:56.960
a Roman match. He's a top, top star. And you know,
548
00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:58.640
it's like, okay, Roman gets a clean win. No one
549
00:24:58.660 --> 00:25:02.849
else does in the top. Um, eventually you just end
550
00:25:02.970 --> 00:25:08.140
up having to do more and more crazy hotshot, chaotic
551
00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:10.880
stuff to make up for the fact that nobody expects
552
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:14.059
anything but that. And that's why going back to your
553
00:25:14.099 --> 00:25:17.549
last comment, uh, fans don't really have clear ideas of
554
00:25:17.970 --> 00:25:19.779
what they're supposed to root for. So they just kind
555
00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:22.240
of wait for an RKO or a stunner or pop
556
00:25:22.259 --> 00:25:24.640
for someone running to the ring. And that is not
557
00:25:24.680 --> 00:25:27.819
a peak fan experience. Roman Penta was. Clear baby face,
558
00:25:27.859 --> 00:25:32.690
clear heel, great setting, clean finish, high stakes. And WWE
559
00:25:32.710 --> 00:25:33.450
almost never goes for that.
560
00:25:34.289 --> 00:25:38.900
It reminds me of... how WCW back in the mid-90s
561
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:42.440
took a hot angle like the NWO and made it
562
00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:45.160
unwatchable because you knew every single main event match, they
563
00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:47.269
were just going to interfere and you were going to
564
00:25:47.289 --> 00:25:51.210
get no conclusive result. And it really did, over time,
565
00:25:51.230 --> 00:25:53.349
it watered down the product and it forced people to
566
00:25:53.490 --> 00:25:57.630
look elsewhere for something to watch. And at the time,
567
00:25:57.650 --> 00:26:00.250
I don't know if I was old enough to understand,
568
00:26:00.750 --> 00:26:02.670
but what it makes me feel like now is that
569
00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:06.819
Those in charge of WWE don't trust their matches enough
570
00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:10.059
to keep people entertained. They have to add all these
571
00:26:10.099 --> 00:26:11.980
little bells and whistles or people aren't going to think
572
00:26:12.019 --> 00:26:14.299
it's good enough. And I wish they would have more
573
00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:16.000
faith in what their guys are doing out there because
574
00:26:16.779 --> 00:26:20.680
tonight's main event match was fantastic until all of the
575
00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:22.359
extracurricular stuff.
576
00:26:22.859 --> 00:26:23.579
Wrestling should be enough.
577
00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:25.069
It really should.
578
00:26:25.220 --> 00:26:25.559
It should be.
579
00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:27.589
I mean, like, it's crazy. I mean, this goes back
580
00:26:28.289 --> 00:26:32.190
decades now. um, in the dying days of WCW and
581
00:26:32.210 --> 00:26:34.349
some of a lot of the TNA era too, when,
582
00:26:34.549 --> 00:26:36.730
you know, companies and obviously WF, but I'm trying to
583
00:26:36.769 --> 00:26:39.809
isolate and say, it's not just WV problem. So many
584
00:26:39.849 --> 00:26:42.759
bookers just think who would watch wrestling? Who would watch
585
00:26:42.859 --> 00:26:43.720
wrestlers wrestle?
586
00:26:43.740 --> 00:26:44.980
Yeah.
587
00:26:45.339 --> 00:26:47.200
Like when you have that attitude, then you add all
588
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:48.799
this other stuff. Cause you think you have to, to
589
00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:52.220
keep people entertained, but like, I'm sorry, like you don't,
590
00:26:52.940 --> 00:26:54.960
Like if you're watching a really good NFL game, they
591
00:26:54.980 --> 00:26:58.009
don't show people like playing video games in the corner
592
00:26:58.049 --> 00:27:01.049
to keep you occupied. They're not showing juggling clouds, riding
593
00:27:01.190 --> 00:27:03.150
unicycles on the sidelines to.
594
00:27:03.130 --> 00:27:03.930
Keep you entertained.
595
00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:06.369
People care about the football game. And one of the
596
00:27:06.380 --> 00:27:09.269
reasons they care about it is because there's home teams,
597
00:27:09.289 --> 00:27:12.210
there's away teams, there's rules that are enforced. And you
598
00:27:12.250 --> 00:27:15.230
believe that the institution cares about enforcing the rules and
599
00:27:15.250 --> 00:27:18.130
that they do so with an honest, good faith effort
600
00:27:18.150 --> 00:27:20.170
to try to enforce those rules in a logical way
601
00:27:20.190 --> 00:27:23.029
that everybody understands. And if pro wrestling tried doing that,
602
00:27:23.430 --> 00:27:27.059
and that was the. baseline, then the interference and the
603
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:29.859
shenanigans would stand out more because it would seem like
604
00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:31.740
an exception to the rule instead of just something that's
605
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:34.319
overbooked as some lazy trope to get us through this
606
00:27:34.380 --> 00:27:37.339
week's scripting of a TV when everyone's protected from doing
607
00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:39.400
clean jobs. And how else are we going to tell stories?
608
00:27:39.619 --> 00:27:41.930
You tell stories by having people who stand for something
609
00:27:41.950 --> 00:27:44.190
that you either are for or they stand for something
610
00:27:44.210 --> 00:27:46.190
that you're against. And then they go out there and
611
00:27:46.210 --> 00:27:48.990
they have amazing athletic contests that simulate a fight that
612
00:27:49.049 --> 00:27:51.009
pull you in, just like people got pulled into Rocky's
613
00:27:51.250 --> 00:27:54.809
boxing fights in the 80s during the Rocky fight. series
614
00:27:54.829 --> 00:27:56.089
you know you're at a movie but you still got
615
00:27:56.130 --> 00:27:58.599
pulled in you got pulled in on f1 to the
616
00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:00.720
i didn't i didn't know anything about car racing it's
617
00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:02.359
not my thing but i got pulled into that and
618
00:28:02.380 --> 00:28:06.099
the amazing like you know, scenery. It was just visually stunning.
619
00:28:06.220 --> 00:28:08.960
Wrestling is visually stunning. Seeing humans live, do this stuff,
620
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:12.799
believe in that again, let that be what sells and
621
00:28:12.900 --> 00:28:15.910
pull back all the extra stuff. Now Crofton says, Eric,
622
00:28:16.130 --> 00:28:18.349
to be fair, Wade, the real world also doesn't make
623
00:28:18.390 --> 00:28:21.930
sense right now. Um, and, uh, Mark Paschetti says it's
624
00:28:21.990 --> 00:28:23.210
insane how right you are.
625
00:28:24.109 --> 00:28:24.450
I do.
626
00:28:24.589 --> 00:28:27.880
I do think there's, I mean, I've speculated as pure speculation,
627
00:28:27.890 --> 00:28:31.079
but I think a little bit of the chaos of
628
00:28:31.099 --> 00:28:31.640
the real world.
629
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:34.569
Um, and what people are willing to look.
630
00:28:34.450 --> 00:28:39.950
Past or tolerate or vote for or defend the last
631
00:28:39.950 --> 00:28:43.670
10 years has, and this, these problems wrestling predated, but
632
00:28:43.690 --> 00:28:46.210
I think it's, there's a sort of an attitude in,
633
00:28:46.329 --> 00:28:48.829
in how you present the product, which is, does anyone
634
00:28:49.509 --> 00:28:50.789
believe in right and wrong anymore?
635
00:28:50.930 --> 00:28:53.109
Or is it just the chaos is the show.
636
00:28:53.670 --> 00:28:55.269
And I do wonder if there's a little bit of
637
00:28:55.329 --> 00:28:59.700
a numbness to what used to feel like like there
638
00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:01.740
was a sense of order and justice in the world
639
00:29:01.779 --> 00:29:05.339
that is so foreign to a whole generation now that
640
00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:08.480
it does consciously or subconsciously kind of permeate the booking
641
00:29:08.589 --> 00:29:11.029
at a scale I don't remember it reaching in the
642
00:29:11.069 --> 00:29:12.269
past this consistently.
643
00:29:13.089 --> 00:29:15.390
Yeah, I think there's a lot to that. And it
644
00:29:15.450 --> 00:29:18.930
also makes me even more confident that they should try
645
00:29:18.970 --> 00:29:21.920
to project the future and realize that if the world's
646
00:29:21.940 --> 00:29:26.079
so crazy right now, start to provide that stabilization. Give
647
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:28.740
real good guys that people can root for and that
648
00:29:28.779 --> 00:29:31.940
might attract more attention than they realize. But they just
649
00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:34.109
don't seem to be that capable of that kind of
650
00:29:34.130 --> 00:29:36.690
forward thinking, maybe because they're too busy trying to make
651
00:29:36.730 --> 00:29:37.650
shows happen every week.
652
00:29:39.170 --> 00:29:41.480
How refreshing would that be to be able to tune
653
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:46.500
into this fantasy land where things actually did make some sense?
654
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:49.799
And the funniest part about it, so many people clamoring
655
00:29:49.819 --> 00:29:52.759
for Cody Rhodes to be a heel. But he still
656
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:55.240
would have the opportunity to be that baby face. He
657
00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:57.509
still isn't so far gone. People just don't want him
658
00:29:57.549 --> 00:29:59.769
to be. But I bet you if he was a
659
00:30:00.569 --> 00:30:04.150
really good baby face, given good heels to work with,
660
00:30:04.730 --> 00:30:06.950
there'd still be a lot there because they haven't really
661
00:30:06.990 --> 00:30:08.569
done it much for the last two years.
662
00:30:11.089 --> 00:30:11.809
I'm Chris Maitland.
663
00:30:12.230 --> 00:30:13.190
I'm Justin McClellan.
664
00:30:13.549 --> 00:30:16.559
We host Wrestling Coast to Coast, a podcast of independent wrestling.
665
00:30:17.069 --> 00:30:19.259
Every week, Chris and I review a different show or
666
00:30:19.299 --> 00:30:22.220
talk about important topics from around the indie wrestling world.
667
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:25.099
Learn about the hot underground stars and the future main
668
00:30:25.140 --> 00:30:28.559
eventers before anyone else. You can reach us at TorchCoastToCoast
669
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:32.079
at gmail.com and me on Blue Sky at Mind of Maitland.
670
00:30:32.359 --> 00:30:35.039
You can reach me at Blue Sky at Justin McClelland.
671
00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:38.559
Find the show on your PW Torch Daily Cast podcast feed.
672
00:30:39.019 --> 00:30:42.319
Search PW Torch on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you
673
00:30:42.339 --> 00:30:43.079
listen to podcasts.
674
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:45.920
Also, stream the latest shows on PWTorch.com.
675
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:51.089
I made the case when Robert Roode won the TNA title.
676
00:30:52.170 --> 00:30:53.730
I'm making sure I'm trying to remember this right. I
677
00:30:53.750 --> 00:30:55.670
think it was during the housing crash, like 2008. And
678
00:30:55.789 --> 00:31:00.650
I was like, he could just be this guy who
679
00:31:00.930 --> 00:31:04.390
just stood for something and made sense and added some...
680
00:31:04.529 --> 00:31:06.130
I wrote a whole editorial on it, a cover story
681
00:31:06.190 --> 00:31:07.559
on it, an approaching torch news story. You can go
682
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:09.140
look it up. I need to refresh my memory on it.
683
00:31:09.140 --> 00:31:10.720
But I remember making the case, kind of like you did, like,
684
00:31:11.019 --> 00:31:12.559
you can be an alternative to the chaos of the
685
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:16.549
real world and give people a sense that... justice will
686
00:31:16.609 --> 00:31:18.210
prevail at least in this world that you can tune
687
00:31:18.250 --> 00:31:20.609
into two, three times, seven times a week, whatever, however
688
00:31:20.630 --> 00:31:22.650
many shows you watch, but WWE shows, you know, at
689
00:31:22.690 --> 00:31:25.920
least we're on SmackDown. And there is this, a world
690
00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:28.079
order that makes sense. And somebody in charge like Nick
691
00:31:28.140 --> 00:31:30.059
Aldis and Adam Pierce, who have the best interest of
692
00:31:30.099 --> 00:31:31.579
the reason we're all here, which is find out who
693
00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:34.059
the better wrestler is. And they're enforcing the rules in
694
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:35.960
a way that's logical and makes sense. And there's people
695
00:31:35.980 --> 00:31:38.920
you can root for who ultimately overcome the people who
696
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:43.630
are trying to create disorder and, and, and yeah, so.
697
00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:44.940
All right.
698
00:31:44.980 --> 00:31:47.960
Think of the irony. If WWE was the place the
699
00:31:47.980 --> 00:31:51.039
world could go to chase morality plays.
700
00:31:51.900 --> 00:31:52.079
Yep.
701
00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:54.329
And, you know, and I stay away from the term
702
00:31:54.349 --> 00:31:56.710
morality play. Cause I think, and I get what you're,
703
00:31:56.730 --> 00:31:58.670
I mean, I agree with the sentiment, but it's, it's
704
00:31:58.710 --> 00:32:00.750
kind of loaded statement. Cause it sort of comes, comes
705
00:32:00.769 --> 00:32:02.450
with the idea of, of we have to.
706
00:32:02.410 --> 00:32:03.470
Believe what is moral.
707
00:32:03.529 --> 00:32:06.430
And I, my, what I advocate for, and I choose
708
00:32:06.450 --> 00:32:09.130
my words carefully here to kind of counter that is
709
00:32:09.809 --> 00:32:11.809
what you want to do is present. It doesn't have
710
00:32:11.829 --> 00:32:16.440
to be moral, but it's, present characters who act consistently
711
00:32:16.460 --> 00:32:19.480
from week to week with traits that fans are showing
712
00:32:19.579 --> 00:32:20.819
that appeals to them.
713
00:32:21.180 --> 00:32:23.880
You amplify those traits. It can be immorality.
714
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:27.950
Just amplify whatever fans like and do it consistently and
715
00:32:28.029 --> 00:32:30.329
match those people who fans like, who have traits that
716
00:32:30.369 --> 00:32:33.150
fans like, and you amplify that. And you match them
717
00:32:33.190 --> 00:32:36.490
against people who have traits that fans don't like. That
718
00:32:36.509 --> 00:32:40.730
can be somebody who's overly moralistically preachy. Whatever works. Just
719
00:32:40.819 --> 00:32:43.359
give us a show where you figure out what your
720
00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:46.920
fan base wants or what lapsed fans and disgruntled fans want.
721
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:50.980
Amplify something for them to root for or have an
722
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:55.359
interest in seeing succeed. Doesn't even have to be. I
723
00:32:57.160 --> 00:32:59.200
think it should be. It ought to be most of
724
00:32:59.220 --> 00:33:00.440
the time, but I don't even think that should be
725
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:02.339
like a hard and fast rule. That's why I don't
726
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:05.829
use that term. Just give us a reason to like Randy,
727
00:33:05.849 --> 00:33:07.869
but then have him conduct himself in a way that
728
00:33:07.910 --> 00:33:14.029
doesn't betray everything else that the institution should stand for,
729
00:33:14.069 --> 00:33:17.349
which is... We're here to let two wrestlers or three
730
00:33:17.390 --> 00:33:20.849
wrestlers or two on two settle the score in the
731
00:33:20.930 --> 00:33:22.990
ring and find out who's better. And anything that interferes
732
00:33:23.029 --> 00:33:28.150
with that, we decry and it gets punished. But SummerSlam's
733
00:33:28.190 --> 00:33:30.950
finish with Brandi is just celebrated as, what a moment.
734
00:33:31.009 --> 00:33:33.789
And by the way, I'm not picking on WWE. AEW
735
00:33:33.829 --> 00:33:36.519
did it when Britt Baker made a return and Renee
736
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:38.859
Paquette and the whole, well, Mick Foley was actually a
737
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:40.779
voice of reason, but everyone was like, oh my God,
738
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:41.279
she's back.
739
00:33:41.299 --> 00:33:41.900
That was so fun.
740
00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:44.380
She just interrupted a title match and ruined everything. Us
741
00:33:44.420 --> 00:33:46.440
finding out who the better wrestler was. Stop it, people.
742
00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:50.650
Yeah, they just can't see it. It's funny how it
743
00:33:50.730 --> 00:33:55.250
seems like they're so... I hate to say they're minor changes,
744
00:33:55.329 --> 00:33:57.210
but it doesn't seem like it would be that hard
745
00:33:57.569 --> 00:33:59.410
to change something like that. To change some of the
746
00:33:59.450 --> 00:34:01.839
things we talk about all the time with the don't
747
00:34:01.890 --> 00:34:04.059
film something in the back that wouldn't be normally filmed.
748
00:34:04.119 --> 00:34:06.619
Like the little inconsistencies and things that don't make sense.
749
00:34:07.019 --> 00:34:10.730
And then finally with... It's okay to lose. It's okay
750
00:34:10.750 --> 00:34:12.829
to lose clean. We talk about the NFL. Teams lose
751
00:34:12.849 --> 00:34:14.590
all the time. The Lions lost.
752
00:34:14.650 --> 00:34:16.389
Sometimes humiliatingly like Green Bay Packers.
753
00:34:17.630 --> 00:34:21.110
Sometimes humiliating. Got to get that in when you can't.
754
00:34:22.420 --> 00:34:24.099
Well, I mean, I might be 48 hours away from
755
00:34:24.139 --> 00:34:26.579
being on the wrong side of a big, as a
756
00:34:26.599 --> 00:34:27.199
Viking fan.
757
00:34:27.539 --> 00:34:30.639
We'll see. The Bears can't score 59 points every game.
758
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:34.030
Yeah. Not against Viking defense also.
759
00:34:34.570 --> 00:34:37.130
Yeah, I'm feeling it too. Trust me. My team's the Ravens. So,
760
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:39.900
Every year it's a battle. So it's trying to figure out,
761
00:34:39.940 --> 00:34:41.000
all right, we're going to, we're going to make it
762
00:34:41.019 --> 00:34:41.400
this year.
763
00:34:41.420 --> 00:34:42.239
So we'll see.
764
00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:44.219
Anyway, that's for a different podcast.
765
00:34:44.780 --> 00:34:46.760
I just don't want the Vikings and Ravens playing the Superbowl.
766
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:48.739
Cause I don't want the purple, like the two shades
767
00:34:48.780 --> 00:34:49.139
of purple.
768
00:34:49.179 --> 00:34:49.400
Yeah.
769
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:52.300
I still resent them for stealing a shade of purple.
770
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:53.699
Yeah.
771
00:34:54.179 --> 00:34:54.440
Yeah.
772
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:59.639
What are you going to do? The Colts for leaving and. Yeah.
773
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:01.750
In a truck in the middle of the night, like
774
00:35:01.769 --> 00:35:02.570
just load it up.
775
00:35:02.730 --> 00:35:02.929
Yeah.
776
00:35:03.030 --> 00:35:04.929
I was, I was way too young for that, but still.
777
00:35:04.969 --> 00:35:05.150
Yeah.
778
00:35:05.789 --> 00:35:05.949
Yeah.
779
00:35:06.710 --> 00:35:06.969
All right.
780
00:35:08.260 --> 00:35:12.059
Um, Oh, did we see, let's just round this out.
781
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:13.380
Cause I brought up, it was CM Punk. What do
782
00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:17.929
you think of CM Punk, um, hitting. Kevin Owens to
783
00:35:17.989 --> 00:35:20.920
get revenge for what seemed inadvertent last week, but you
784
00:35:20.940 --> 00:35:25.139
can make the case. Kevin Owens missed and then lunged
785
00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:27.519
to punk and then said, oops, you know.
786
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:27.699
What I mean?
787
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:29.840
Like you, I mean, that's literally what happened.
788
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:31.969
So if punk wants to make that case, if he's
789
00:35:32.010 --> 00:35:34.090
confronted with it, it can, but of course the announcers
790
00:35:34.130 --> 00:35:34.849
don't make that case.
791
00:35:35.210 --> 00:35:37.250
The announcers don't, you know, they just go along. Oh,
792
00:35:37.269 --> 00:35:38.210
it's just part of the entertainment.
793
00:35:38.349 --> 00:35:38.849
Oh, crazy.
794
00:35:38.869 --> 00:35:41.710
Look at the craziness. Something, something, something wild has happened. No,
795
00:35:41.730 --> 00:35:44.599
it happens every week. It's not wild anymore. Um, and
796
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:48.889
then he, he, so, uh, I don't know.
797
00:35:49.090 --> 00:35:51.800
I mean, I like why, why Owens and not Zane
798
00:35:51.880 --> 00:35:52.449
or why?
799
00:35:52.590 --> 00:35:53.219
Well, yeah.
800
00:35:53.380 --> 00:35:54.780
And why at all?
801
00:35:55.960 --> 00:36:00.099
I mean, like you said, just punk punk after Randy
802
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:02.179
helped him win at SummerSlam, punk came on the post
803
00:36:02.199 --> 00:36:03.760
show and said, I don't want to win that way.
804
00:36:03.820 --> 00:36:05.800
And then he said on the next TV show, Cody,
805
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:07.940
I owe you a match whenever you want one, I'll
806
00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:09.320
be there for it. Cause that isn't how I wanted
807
00:36:09.340 --> 00:36:11.159
the match to go. Then what does he get booked
808
00:36:11.260 --> 00:36:12.320
to do a month later?
809
00:36:13.250 --> 00:36:14.010
Same thing. Randy did.
810
00:36:14.030 --> 00:36:15.170
Yeah.
811
00:36:15.190 --> 00:36:19.090
It's a little, it's frustrating. Um, If anything, what they
812
00:36:19.110 --> 00:36:22.469
should have done was just had Punk take out Gargano
813
00:36:22.489 --> 00:36:25.260
and prevent him from interfering at all. And then you
814
00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:27.059
would have had a one-on-one match and Punk can say,
815
00:36:27.099 --> 00:36:29.039
I'm just, I don't want someone else to get screwed,
816
00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:31.739
whoever it is, because that's not what the championship deserves.
817
00:36:33.139 --> 00:36:35.639
Even if he got screwed out of it, I sense
818
00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:37.260
he might try to make the case that he was
819
00:36:37.300 --> 00:36:40.460
going to hit Sammy too. And he just, Sammy took
820
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:43.380
him out before he had the chance, but that's not
821
00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:45.519
a good reason. I just sense that's where they're going
822
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:45.829
with it.
823
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:46.519
Yeah.
824
00:36:47.170 --> 00:36:48.909
When you say, why did Punk do it? Crofton says,
825
00:36:48.929 --> 00:36:50.210
because Punk is a petty man.
826
00:36:50.670 --> 00:36:50.969
LOL.
827
00:36:51.090 --> 00:36:52.869
He is a petty man. And he would probably say
828
00:36:52.889 --> 00:36:53.389
that out loud.
829
00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:54.840
Would he?
830
00:36:55.699 --> 00:36:56.179
I think so.
831
00:36:56.519 --> 00:36:56.639
Okay.
832
00:36:56.659 --> 00:36:56.980
I think so.
833
00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:57.760
All right.
834
00:36:58.360 --> 00:36:59.000
And we'll find out.
835
00:37:00.059 --> 00:37:01.639
Yeah.
836
00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:03.760
Cy T says, I no longer watch a match in
837
00:37:03.780 --> 00:37:05.860
WWE wondering who will win. I watch wondering how they'll
838
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:06.510
get out of it.
839
00:37:07.300 --> 00:37:07.429
Right.
840
00:37:08.449 --> 00:37:08.590
Yeah.
841
00:37:08.690 --> 00:37:12.110
Well, it's also annoying that all the interference is the
842
00:37:12.170 --> 00:37:14.590
same interference too. It's always the same stuff too.
843
00:37:14.610 --> 00:37:14.929
Yep.
844
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:17.539
You got somebody runs down, somebody distracts the ref, somebody
845
00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:19.219
hits him from the other side, somebody gets a belt,
846
00:37:19.260 --> 00:37:21.059
somebody hits him with a belt or a chair or something.
847
00:37:21.340 --> 00:37:22.420
It's always the same stuff.
848
00:37:23.340 --> 00:37:27.539
Yeah. Powder Repeat says, Punk should have just eliminated Johnny.
849
00:37:28.059 --> 00:37:28.239
Yeah.
850
00:37:28.719 --> 00:37:29.820
Yeah, that's what I think.
851
00:37:30.570 --> 00:37:34.210
If Punk had just eliminated Johnny or scared him off,
852
00:37:34.250 --> 00:37:36.409
Johnny just runs to the back, Candice yells at Punk, Punk,
853
00:37:36.469 --> 00:37:36.789
and then.
854
00:37:37.150 --> 00:37:39.150
Chase after Johnny. Punk just pulls up a chair and
855
00:37:39.170 --> 00:37:42.849
sits down and just crosses his arms, just goes, you
856
00:37:42.869 --> 00:37:43.250
two fight.
857
00:37:43.789 --> 00:37:45.429
I mean, that would have been the honorable thing for
858
00:37:45.469 --> 00:37:48.780
Punk to do, get rid of the interference. And then
859
00:37:48.820 --> 00:37:52.019
Corey Graves couldn't just say, hey, look, Punk could have interfered.
860
00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:55.300
He could have changed the course of WWE history by interfering,
861
00:37:56.179 --> 00:37:58.920
like Randy Orton did. And they can name any number
862
00:37:58.940 --> 00:37:59.260
of others.
863
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:02.110
Kevin Owens. But they didn't. But he didn't.
864
00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:03.230
You know why?
865
00:38:03.269 --> 00:38:05.389
Because we're going to actually shine a lantern on this.
866
00:38:05.409 --> 00:38:07.130
We're going to shine a spotlight on it. Because Punk
867
00:38:07.230 --> 00:38:09.869
knows we're here to find out who the better wrestler is.
868
00:38:09.949 --> 00:38:11.929
And you don't find that out by interfering with a
869
00:38:11.949 --> 00:38:12.389
title belt.
870
00:38:13.469 --> 00:38:16.050
And if they really, and if they really just can't
871
00:38:16.070 --> 00:38:19.789
help themselves, they could have had punk try to stop
872
00:38:19.829 --> 00:38:23.260
the interference, but accidentally basically interfere by trying to stop it.
873
00:38:24.050 --> 00:38:26.829
And then you still get your interference. You get your
874
00:38:26.969 --> 00:38:29.639
protecting Owens, whatever you want to do to allow Sammy
875
00:38:29.659 --> 00:38:31.909
to get the win. And then punk can come out
876
00:38:31.949 --> 00:38:34.519
later and say, I was trying to protect the match
877
00:38:34.659 --> 00:38:38.000
and the championship from being tainted. And now look, now look,
878
00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:40.079
now you guys got me involved in your stuff and
879
00:38:40.099 --> 00:38:42.320
you brought me down to your level, you know, but,
880
00:38:43.170 --> 00:38:44.809
So maybe they'll go that way. I don't know. Maybe
881
00:38:44.829 --> 00:38:48.869
we'll get lucky. I'm not confident.
882
00:38:48.909 --> 00:38:49.650
Finn Balor's in the mix.
883
00:38:49.690 --> 00:38:51.449
He said, I'm waiting in line, even if I have
884
00:38:51.469 --> 00:38:52.960
to win money in the bank to get there. Randy
885
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:56.900
Orton eyed the belt as Sammy was coming out to celebrate.
886
00:38:56.920 --> 00:38:58.320
Sammy's celebration at the top of the show was great,
887
00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:02.039
by the way. Just absolutely just gloating about the win
888
00:39:02.179 --> 00:39:05.590
and just shoving the belt out there.
889
00:39:07.570 --> 00:39:08.010
As he should.
890
00:39:08.190 --> 00:39:10.760
You know, I mean, just he's rubbing it in. He
891
00:39:10.780 --> 00:39:14.559
was flaunting that he was champion to the fans. So
892
00:39:14.619 --> 00:39:18.219
that was a lot of fun. And Cole said he's
893
00:39:18.260 --> 00:39:20.780
the man who believes there is finally justice for Sammy.
894
00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:25.710
I loved Sammy getting in Nick Aldis's face saying it
895
00:39:25.889 --> 00:39:28.309
sure feels good coming out of my mouth, coming out
896
00:39:28.329 --> 00:39:31.400
of my mouth that I'm the WWE champion. Um, And
897
00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:32.980
he said he's a little surprised by the fans booing
898
00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:33.940
him because I did it for.
899
00:39:33.860 --> 00:39:34.199
You, too.
900
00:39:34.380 --> 00:39:36.260
I love that Sammy's just still trying to make his case.
901
00:39:36.900 --> 00:39:39.539
I am not the bad guy. It's justice for Sammy.
902
00:39:39.559 --> 00:39:42.889
But justice for me is justice for all. Even the
903
00:39:42.949 --> 00:39:45.909
fans booing me. This justice. This is for you, too.
904
00:39:47.670 --> 00:39:51.309
And yeah, I thought there was really enjoyed Sammy's promo.
905
00:39:51.389 --> 00:39:53.969
And obviously wrestling moves so quickly. We already have a
906
00:39:53.989 --> 00:39:56.719
Sammy title defense and a whole controversy to react to.
907
00:39:56.760 --> 00:39:57.559
But what did you think of that?
908
00:39:58.579 --> 00:40:01.059
I thought it was a really hot opening segment. You
909
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:04.699
knew Sammy was going to come out just gloating. I
910
00:40:04.900 --> 00:40:07.750
think even Cole said it last week during the main event.
911
00:40:07.789 --> 00:40:12.670
He said, oh, Sammy's going to be insufferable now. But first,
912
00:40:12.690 --> 00:40:14.730
Sammy deserves a pay raise for all he's doing. He's
913
00:40:14.769 --> 00:40:18.800
carrying like four feuds at one time. He is against Gargano.
914
00:40:18.840 --> 00:40:22.480
He's against Aldis. He's against Owens. He's against Punk. It's insane.
915
00:40:22.500 --> 00:40:22.579
Yeah.
916
00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:25.920
But I also don't want to gloss over what you
917
00:40:25.940 --> 00:40:30.010
said about Balor either. I love the fact that he's
918
00:40:30.070 --> 00:40:31.670
trying to do it the right way. That's what we're
919
00:40:31.710 --> 00:40:34.230
talking about with babyfaces. He was told he didn't get
920
00:40:34.250 --> 00:40:36.510
his shot, even though he really should have because he
921
00:40:36.550 --> 00:40:38.389
kind of thought he was going into a one-on-one match
922
00:40:38.409 --> 00:40:40.340
for a number one contender match, and it got turned
923
00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:42.980
into a fatal four-way. But he didn't complain about it,
924
00:40:42.980 --> 00:40:44.860
and he said, I guess I'll earn one. And he's
925
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:49.239
still sticking with that. those little things add up to
926
00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:51.880
get you to care about certain characters. And I think
927
00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:55.300
that's what will happen with Balor. And I assume we're
928
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:57.179
going to get a Balor versus Zayn match down the
929
00:40:57.219 --> 00:40:59.400
road here. I don't know what that means, but I'm
930
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:02.340
looking forward to it already. Cause Zayn is just carrying
931
00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:04.840
the company or at least he's carrying the show.
932
00:41:05.469 --> 00:41:06.929
You know, I was watching about the title and there's
933
00:41:06.949 --> 00:41:09.809
probably minutes like, have they portrayed him seriously enough where
934
00:41:09.889 --> 00:41:13.429
anyone's watching him going? He is the undisputed WWE champion
935
00:41:13.630 --> 00:41:17.500
and he represents something that He represents this title in
936
00:41:17.539 --> 00:41:21.139
a way that, you know, reaches a level of being
937
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:23.460
a deserving champion. Or does he feel like this sort
938
00:41:23.500 --> 00:41:25.050
of joke of.
939
00:41:25.030 --> 00:41:27.110
A champion who hasn't earned anything?
940
00:41:27.610 --> 00:41:30.010
And then I just kind of thought, and I don't
941
00:41:30.030 --> 00:41:31.730
want to say that doesn't matter because the vast majority
942
00:41:31.750 --> 00:41:34.360
of the time you want the champion to be. to
943
00:41:34.380 --> 00:41:37.179
come across as, yeah, he is at least close to
944
00:41:37.219 --> 00:41:39.219
the best. And if he's a heel, it's because he
945
00:41:39.260 --> 00:41:42.070
cheats a little bit. And then that sets up Balor
946
00:41:42.170 --> 00:41:44.489
and whoever, you know, Punk to come after him. But
947
00:41:44.510 --> 00:41:48.469
I just thought Sammy has been so entertaining that I'm
948
00:41:48.530 --> 00:41:50.670
okay if he doesn't kind of, if he just carves
949
00:41:50.690 --> 00:41:53.480
out his own category for however long he's champion, because
950
00:41:53.500 --> 00:41:57.699
the story has been so well told in a lot
951
00:41:57.719 --> 00:42:05.130
of respects, but just so well performed. Like, Sammy's just
952
00:42:05.170 --> 00:42:11.389
been so entertaining, but also effective. Like the fans are
953
00:42:11.730 --> 00:42:15.489
booing him. No one's cheering him because he's entertaining. He's
954
00:42:15.530 --> 00:42:18.300
getting booed. And then he's lecturing the fans who are
955
00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:22.440
booing him. Great moment on this show, too. Sadler version
956
00:42:22.460 --> 00:42:24.659
three points this out. The best segment for me was
957
00:42:24.699 --> 00:42:27.940
Sammy gaslighting Johnny Gargano backstage. Sammy doing great character work.
958
00:42:28.460 --> 00:42:33.030
Once again, Paulder repeats is yes. Sammy, the delusional champion
959
00:42:33.179 --> 00:42:34.969
Darrell says they don't want to make Sammy feel like
960
00:42:35.010 --> 00:42:36.329
a champ who can't stand on his own and make
961
00:42:36.369 --> 00:42:38.650
him even more delusional. This also makes the promos that
962
00:42:38.670 --> 00:42:40.989
Sammy cut feel even more like he's really going to
963
00:42:41.110 --> 00:42:45.630
lose it. Um, back to the point about, uh, gaslighting Gargano.
964
00:42:46.190 --> 00:42:48.239
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't promise you a title shot.
965
00:42:48.489 --> 00:42:52.349
Like he's like picking out the exact words, um, of,
966
00:42:52.500 --> 00:42:57.230
of what was said and what wasn't said. And then, um, uh,
967
00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:01.079
And so Nick Aldis sent an interjection and said, hey, Sammy,
968
00:43:01.380 --> 00:43:02.739
you're sitting here talking like it's your choice to give
969
00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:03.099
him a match.
970
00:43:03.159 --> 00:43:03.440
It's not.
971
00:43:03.460 --> 00:43:05.320
And then Sammy goes, that, that, that's what I meant
972
00:43:05.340 --> 00:43:08.300
to say, Johnny. It's not my, I could if I could,
973
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:09.420
but I can't.
974
00:43:09.460 --> 00:43:10.199
He found his excuse.
975
00:43:10.519 --> 00:43:10.940
Yeah, yeah.
976
00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:12.480
So he went from saying, I didn't promise you a
977
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:14.019
title shot. And then Aldis goes, why are you guys
978
00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:17.219
acting like it's your job? And Sammy's like, that's my out.
979
00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:18.460
He's smart.
980
00:43:18.820 --> 00:43:22.239
You know, like the Sammy character is smart. He sees
981
00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:25.889
an opportunity to change his story and with a straight
982
00:43:26.070 --> 00:43:29.750
face to makes his case that, yeah, that's what I
983
00:43:29.789 --> 00:43:30.429
meant to say.
984
00:43:32.070 --> 00:43:35.510
And so, yeah. Yeah, go ahead.
985
00:43:35.869 --> 00:43:40.110
He's so slimy that if he's actually up, if you're
986
00:43:40.150 --> 00:43:43.070
rooting for someone against him, it just makes you want
987
00:43:43.110 --> 00:43:45.550
to pull your hair out. We've addressed how the problem
988
00:43:45.610 --> 00:43:47.210
is they're not really building people up the right way
989
00:43:47.250 --> 00:43:49.929
to be against him. But so you kind of want
990
00:43:49.949 --> 00:43:51.309
to just cheer for him because he's so good at
991
00:43:51.329 --> 00:43:54.510
what he's doing. But I loved how later on after
992
00:43:54.550 --> 00:43:58.309
he realized now he needs Gargano. Now he's back to like, oh, no,
993
00:43:58.329 --> 00:44:00.510
now I got to go on your good side and,
994
00:44:00.670 --> 00:44:03.289
you know, read between the lines. I need your help tonight.
995
00:44:03.309 --> 00:44:04.690
And then I promise you get your shot.
996
00:44:05.170 --> 00:44:08.500
Just cross wires and misunderstanding, you know, last week. It
997
00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:11.659
was just honest misunderstanding among upstanding folks.
998
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:14.130
But again, I'd have to go back and rewatch it.
999
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:16.199
But now that Zayn held onto the belt and Gargano
1000
00:44:16.219 --> 00:44:18.699
tried to help him, I assume Gargano is going to
1001
00:44:18.739 --> 00:44:20.659
want that title shot now. But I bet if you
1002
00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:23.159
go back and watch what Zayn said, he never promised
1003
00:44:23.179 --> 00:44:25.579
him a title shot again. He just said he deserved one.
1004
00:44:25.619 --> 00:44:26.849
He never said he was going to give him one.
1005
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:29.659
So I guarantee that's what they're going to say next week.
1006
00:44:30.539 --> 00:44:30.980
Absolutely.
1007
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:35.699
And that's why, even as we are rightly critical of
1008
00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:39.570
aspects of the booking of finishes and the framing of interference,
1009
00:44:41.010 --> 00:44:43.889
As I'm watching Sammy going, oh, does he come across
1010
00:44:43.969 --> 00:44:46.530
as a serious champion? It's like, he's just the best
1011
00:44:46.570 --> 00:44:49.340
thing WWE has going right now. And you want him
1012
00:44:49.380 --> 00:44:52.599
in the top main event spot. Yeah, Crofton says, yep,
1013
00:44:52.619 --> 00:44:53.599
they got their wires crossed.
1014
00:44:53.699 --> 00:44:54.139
It happens.
1015
00:44:55.119 --> 00:44:58.139
Derek Mitchell says, Sammy was a great co-star in the
1016
00:44:58.179 --> 00:45:00.610
Bloodline story. And he's like a co-star getting his own
1017
00:45:00.780 --> 00:45:04.389
series as the leading man. And, uh, Crofton says, yeah,
1018
00:45:04.409 --> 00:45:05.150
that's perfect, Derek.
1019
00:45:05.170 --> 00:45:05.590
I love that.
1020
00:45:06.349 --> 00:45:09.239
Uh, Sammy's even saves the universe. Isn't that the, the
1021
00:45:09.260 --> 00:45:13.119
big bang theory guys spinoff that I haven't seen. Oh yeah.
1022
00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:14.019
Yeah.
1023
00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:17.400
Uh, and I also liked the added touch that Candace
1024
00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:20.139
Larray is all not is nonplussed about the entire thing.
1025
00:45:20.500 --> 00:45:20.659
Yeah.
1026
00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:22.159
So I feel like that's going to come to a
1027
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:23.760
head at some point too. Gargano is going to have
1028
00:45:23.780 --> 00:45:24.380
to make a choice.
1029
00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:26.019
Yes, absolutely.
1030
00:45:28.019 --> 00:45:30.199
It's next-level coverage that you come to expect from the
1031
00:45:30.260 --> 00:45:35.440
PWTorch brand. No AI, no rookie perspectives, no unfounded rumors,
1032
00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:40.119
no clickbait, no deceptive headlines, just high-quality writing, breaking news,
1033
00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:44.559
and fascinating flashbacks every day at PWTorch.com. Pull yourself away
1034
00:45:44.659 --> 00:45:46.889
from the vacuous social media experience that I know many
1035
00:45:46.909 --> 00:45:49.809
of you regret once you get lost in it for minutes,
1036
00:45:49.869 --> 00:45:52.150
if not hours at a time, and settle in for
1037
00:45:52.349 --> 00:45:54.469
high-quality PWTorch-branded wrestling coverage.
1038
00:45:57.050 --> 00:45:59.340
All right. Uh, let's see.
1039
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:02.639
Well, Darrell has some good chats up, but I'll save
1040
00:46:02.679 --> 00:46:05.090
that for when he joins us in a few minutes here. Let's, uh,
1041
00:46:05.329 --> 00:46:07.130
obviously other stuff happened on the show. We'll get to that,
1042
00:46:07.190 --> 00:46:10.030
but let's bring callers onto the, into the conversations. Cause, uh,
1043
00:46:10.409 --> 00:46:13.210
into the conversation because maybe they'll cover those topics on
1044
00:46:13.230 --> 00:46:15.230
the call. So we'll start with Crofton who's been active
1045
00:46:15.250 --> 00:46:19.389
in the chat. We got the aforementioned Darrell on hold
1046
00:46:19.449 --> 00:46:22.630
and we also have Jason D. In fact, Crofton, raise
1047
00:46:22.650 --> 00:46:23.869
your hand if you're okay if I go to Jason
1048
00:46:23.929 --> 00:46:25.750
first in case he's got limited time.
1049
00:46:26.349 --> 00:46:27.230
I don't know what his time is.
1050
00:46:27.269 --> 00:46:27.750
Okay. Yep.
1051
00:46:27.789 --> 00:46:28.289
He said that's fine.
1052
00:46:28.309 --> 00:46:30.030
So actually I'm going to go with Jason D from
1053
00:46:30.090 --> 00:46:32.530
Australia first, although he's going to probably say no, let
1054
00:46:32.610 --> 00:46:33.190
Crofton go first.
1055
00:46:33.230 --> 00:46:36.429
And it's going to be a chaos here. Chaos. Jason,
1056
00:46:36.449 --> 00:46:37.730
welcome to the show. Good to hear your voice again.
1057
00:46:37.769 --> 00:46:39.780
What's up? Thanks, bud.
1058
00:46:39.800 --> 00:46:41.179
Well, I'm going to say, why don't you let Darrell
1059
00:46:41.219 --> 00:46:43.199
go first? So let's just throw it all in the
1060
00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:43.639
big mix.
1061
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:45.719
Darrell always says he wants to go last, so he
1062
00:46:45.739 --> 00:46:48.920
doesn't feel like he's taking up time, other people's time.
1063
00:46:49.179 --> 00:46:50.880
All right.
1064
00:46:50.920 --> 00:46:54.320
I'll try. I'll be relatively quick. How are you going, Eric?
1065
00:46:55.159 --> 00:46:57.219
You know what I like about the Sammy character is
1066
00:46:57.260 --> 00:47:01.190
that it's the difference. We talked about the bloodline. I
1067
00:47:01.230 --> 00:47:05.929
think where the real... And what you're talking about, is
1068
00:47:05.969 --> 00:47:08.429
he a credible champion? He's credible to me because he's
1069
00:47:08.449 --> 00:47:11.369
such a great performer, his character, and I don't even
1070
00:47:11.510 --> 00:47:14.269
worry about what he does in the ring. It's his
1071
00:47:14.349 --> 00:47:17.179
character and the way that everything he says comes across
1072
00:47:17.219 --> 00:47:20.440
like it's not scripted. He's one of those few performers
1073
00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:22.619
that makes it seem like everything he's saying is off
1074
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:27.219
the top of his head. And it's funny. When you
1075
00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:29.159
look at what he did in the bloodline, he was
1076
00:47:29.300 --> 00:47:32.690
kind of the– The good guy trying to fit into
1077
00:47:32.769 --> 00:47:36.690
the cool, bad group. And then when he got accepted
1078
00:47:36.769 --> 00:47:39.030
by them, the crowd cheered, even though it was the
1079
00:47:39.130 --> 00:47:43.420
heel group. And now he's playing a role as someone
1080
00:47:43.460 --> 00:47:46.500
who's saying that he's representing the audience, but the audience
1081
00:47:46.579 --> 00:47:48.619
don't want him to represent them.
1082
00:47:49.369 --> 00:47:51.190
But he's saying, no, I am for all of you.
1083
00:47:51.230 --> 00:47:54.349
So that's where I think he's just such a great performer,
1084
00:47:54.369 --> 00:47:56.909
his character, regardless of what he does in the ring.
1085
00:47:57.380 --> 00:47:59.940
I just love that the difference between what we saw
1086
00:47:59.960 --> 00:48:02.539
in the bloodline and now. That's what makes incredible to me.
1087
00:48:02.579 --> 00:48:03.420
People pick up on that.
1088
00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:07.969
Yeah, well, it covers both bases. Like I think if
1089
00:48:08.010 --> 00:48:11.929
someone's really entertaining, but they seem like a comedy figure
1090
00:48:12.010 --> 00:48:15.190
or farce of a champion, but they're really entertaining. I
1091
00:48:15.230 --> 00:48:17.679
don't love that. I mean, it can work, but I
1092
00:48:17.699 --> 00:48:19.960
don't love it. But when I watch Sammy with a title, Mike,
1093
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:21.860
have they turned him into too much of a joke?
1094
00:48:22.699 --> 00:48:25.530
where it doesn't feel, it's sort of like honky-tonk man
1095
00:48:25.570 --> 00:48:28.110
if you live through it. He's not really in the
1096
00:48:28.170 --> 00:48:32.889
legacy of Don Morocco and Pat Patterson and Randy Savage
1097
00:48:32.929 --> 00:48:35.789
and Tito Santana. He was just a joke of a champion.
1098
00:48:35.809 --> 00:48:36.820
He wasn't at the level of Mr.
1099
00:48:36.860 --> 00:48:37.179
Perfect.
1100
00:48:37.780 --> 00:48:40.420
Are they portraying Sammy, though? And I'm just kind of
1101
00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:43.440
explaining what my, sharing what my thoughts were when I
1102
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:46.840
was watching him. But I came to the conclusion you did, Jason,
1103
00:48:46.860 --> 00:48:49.429
which is he's so entertaining, it doesn't matter for the
1104
00:48:49.469 --> 00:48:51.630
most part. But I also think and this goes to
1105
00:48:51.639 --> 00:48:53.849
what Eric says about the match quality, Sammy is so
1106
00:48:53.869 --> 00:48:56.349
good in the ring. And he's been around for so
1107
00:48:56.670 --> 00:49:02.110
long having really good matches. And size is not everything,
1108
00:49:02.210 --> 00:49:06.369
but it matters when you're missing some other things. It
1109
00:49:06.389 --> 00:49:08.429
didn't matter to Daniel Bryan because he was, I mean,
1110
00:49:08.469 --> 00:49:09.909
it did in the story, but you know what I mean?
1111
00:49:09.929 --> 00:49:12.610
Like people bought him as champion because he wasn't a
1112
00:49:12.730 --> 00:49:18.690
comedy joke figure. And with Sammy, he's kind of tall for,
1113
00:49:19.329 --> 00:49:22.300
you know, he's, you know, he's taller than Kevin Owens,
1114
00:49:22.340 --> 00:49:24.519
way taller than Johnny Gargano. He's, you know, looks like
1115
00:49:24.539 --> 00:49:26.760
he belongs right there face to face with CM Punk.
1116
00:49:27.530 --> 00:49:30.489
So that helps a little bit, too, where he's really
1117
00:49:30.510 --> 00:49:32.530
good in the ring. He's got good size for somebody
1118
00:49:32.550 --> 00:49:37.420
who's considered a world-class worker, not just a Baron Corbin,
1119
00:49:37.500 --> 00:49:41.280
Damian Priest-type guy who's their big cast. He's obviously not
1120
00:49:41.300 --> 00:49:43.760
there because he's a giant. So my point is he
1121
00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:46.469
checks just enough boxes, but he has to check almost
1122
00:49:46.699 --> 00:49:48.949
all of those boxes. Super entertaining, good in the ring,
1123
00:49:49.789 --> 00:49:55.389
a legacy of top-tier matches, respected by his peers. to
1124
00:49:55.449 --> 00:50:00.530
make up for the fact that he doesn't, isn't portrayed
1125
00:50:00.570 --> 00:50:04.329
as a serious person winning in serious ways, even if
1126
00:50:04.369 --> 00:50:09.489
his first title reign was less, less compromised than his
1127
00:50:09.989 --> 00:50:12.150
second win. Eric, you're kind of not alone. If you
1128
00:50:12.170 --> 00:50:13.889
want to respond to that, you can, and then I'll
1129
00:50:13.909 --> 00:50:14.489
throw it back to Jason.
1130
00:50:15.489 --> 00:50:18.039
No, I actually agree with everything you said about Sammy.
1131
00:50:18.079 --> 00:50:20.659
He's just firing all cylinders. And I think they need to,
1132
00:50:21.340 --> 00:50:23.300
they can use what he's doing right now. And even
1133
00:50:23.340 --> 00:50:25.860
with the bloodline, like Jason was saying, they can use
1134
00:50:25.900 --> 00:50:27.800
that to teach people for the next 20 years if
1135
00:50:27.820 --> 00:50:31.219
they want to, because there's still a lot of performers
1136
00:50:31.260 --> 00:50:34.409
that need a lot of work, um, I don't want
1137
00:50:34.429 --> 00:50:35.989
to single anybody out at this moment, but I'm sure
1138
00:50:36.010 --> 00:50:37.610
we'll get to a couple of them later in the show,
1139
00:50:38.150 --> 00:50:40.630
but they could learn a lot. And if anybody thinks
1140
00:50:40.650 --> 00:50:43.349
that they're doing well, have them watch Sammy right now,
1141
00:50:43.610 --> 00:50:46.070
whether it's in a backstage interview in the ring interview
1142
00:50:46.110 --> 00:50:48.550
or in the ring, because I don't know if anyone
1143
00:50:48.570 --> 00:50:50.579
can touch them right now. And I mean, anyone.
1144
00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:51.760
Yeah.
1145
00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:54.719
I mean, if you're making a case for performer of
1146
00:50:54.820 --> 00:50:58.219
the year and we're getting to the stage, you know,
1147
00:50:58.260 --> 00:51:01.219
it's closing in on the start of quarter four of
1148
00:51:01.260 --> 00:51:03.809
the year, you know, Sammy is going to be in
1149
00:51:03.829 --> 00:51:06.010
the conversation. You know, we don't do, maybe we'll start
1150
00:51:06.050 --> 00:51:07.769
doing awards again. We dropped them when it was just
1151
00:51:07.809 --> 00:51:09.889
a one company, you know, we were always kind of
1152
00:51:09.929 --> 00:51:12.130
us-based with our awards, um, and it was down to
1153
00:51:12.170 --> 00:51:14.409
one company and then TNA just felt, you know, it's
1154
00:51:14.489 --> 00:51:16.070
just kind of like, but maybe fun to bring those back,
1155
00:51:16.110 --> 00:51:19.269
but Sammy would be up for, you know, some sort
1156
00:51:19.329 --> 00:51:21.269
of MVP award or performer of the year.
1157
00:51:21.989 --> 00:51:23.789
Um, overall performer of the year.
1158
00:51:23.710 --> 00:51:25.869
Type of word with with what he's doing uh salary
1159
00:51:25.889 --> 00:51:27.909
version three by the way so sammy's having competitive matches
1160
00:51:27.949 --> 00:51:29.449
with top guys so he doesn't feel like a joke
1161
00:51:29.469 --> 00:51:31.219
to me he's not getting his ass kicked for 90
1162
00:51:31.219 --> 00:51:33.199
of the match and then relying on flukes or distractions
1163
00:51:33.340 --> 00:51:35.739
at the last second that's the thing like the honky-tonk
1164
00:51:35.780 --> 00:51:38.099
it's like people got mad when i compared stephen borden
1165
00:51:38.139 --> 00:51:39.980
to eric watts but i you know was very specific
1166
00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:42.659
in my wording and included and excluded the things that
1167
00:51:42.679 --> 00:51:45.260
were similar and dissimilar with sammy and honky-tonk man i
1168
00:51:45.300 --> 00:51:49.090
use honky-tonk not to say sammy is him but He
1169
00:51:49.170 --> 00:51:51.710
is the go-to example of a guy who fits what
1170
00:51:51.769 --> 00:51:58.960
Sadler is saying Sammy's not. Sammy is an entertaining champion
1171
00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:03.530
winning by fluke who's not there because he's Gunther or
1172
00:52:03.590 --> 00:52:06.309
Braun Breaker or Brock Lesnar or even CM Punk or
1173
00:52:06.349 --> 00:52:12.550
Cody Rhodes. He's there because of how his character succeeds
1174
00:52:12.929 --> 00:52:16.639
at a top level through cheating and whining about injustice.
1175
00:52:17.280 --> 00:52:21.320
and relying on flukes or distractions. But as Sadler points out,
1176
00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:25.480
he is not getting his ass kicked for 90%. Like
1177
00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:28.280
he is out there going toe to toe back and forth,
1178
00:52:28.519 --> 00:52:31.210
which in a way is a different kind of infuriating.
1179
00:52:31.389 --> 00:52:34.309
If you're a fan watching him, because you're thinking, Sam,
1180
00:52:34.349 --> 00:52:36.230
you could win without all this. If you just would
1181
00:52:36.349 --> 00:52:39.449
settle down and focus on winning, we could like you.
1182
00:52:39.929 --> 00:52:43.030
And it makes it easier to boo him and, that
1183
00:52:43.050 --> 00:52:47.280
he can't just stop playing the victim card about everything incessantly.
1184
00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:49.199
Jason, thank you. Oh, go ahead, Eric.
1185
00:52:49.239 --> 00:52:49.639
Go ahead. No, go ahead.
1186
00:52:49.659 --> 00:52:51.119
I was just going to say just quickly, it also
1187
00:52:51.179 --> 00:52:54.949
helps that he has a very believable, incredible finisher. That
1188
00:52:55.010 --> 00:52:57.309
does help. Because when he hits the hula kick, I
1189
00:52:57.349 --> 00:52:59.230
assume someone's not kicking out most.
1190
00:52:59.090 --> 00:52:59.489
Of the time.
1191
00:53:00.469 --> 00:53:00.610
Yep.
1192
00:53:01.070 --> 00:53:01.420
Good point.
1193
00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:01.679
Yep.
1194
00:53:01.699 --> 00:53:02.730
All right, Jason, back to you.
1195
00:53:04.039 --> 00:53:04.860
I just want to clarify.
1196
00:53:04.920 --> 00:53:06.619
So when I said regardless of what he does in
1197
00:53:06.639 --> 00:53:09.940
the ring, Sammy, and look, I'm not a big in-ring
1198
00:53:10.039 --> 00:53:13.320
kind of guy. But I always, when I first saw Sammy,
1199
00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:14.969
I said to myself, there's something about this guy, the
1200
00:53:15.010 --> 00:53:16.590
way that he sells and he moves his.
1201
00:53:16.530 --> 00:53:17.670
Body and he does little things.
1202
00:53:18.050 --> 00:53:19.869
There's little things that you can pick up that other
1203
00:53:19.909 --> 00:53:21.389
people do different than others, right?
1204
00:53:21.789 --> 00:53:23.730
And he always has that. And you're right, Wade.
1205
00:53:23.750 --> 00:53:26.469
He's deceptively tall because when Orton came out, he was
1206
00:53:26.739 --> 00:53:29.809
eye to eye with him. Basically, if you're eye to
1207
00:53:29.909 --> 00:53:32.730
eye with Orton, then you're tall. And he's also deceptively
1208
00:53:32.849 --> 00:53:36.440
strong as well. So he's always had the in-ring credibility
1209
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:40.380
with me. But they have told the story that Sammy,
1210
00:53:41.300 --> 00:53:45.119
they've never told the story with Sammy that he's a
1211
00:53:46.010 --> 00:53:49.349
main event, main event guy as far as winning big matches.
1212
00:53:49.690 --> 00:53:53.699
He always fell short. He always fell short against McIntyre.
1213
00:53:53.780 --> 00:53:57.570
Isn't he 0-10 against McIntyre? When it comes to title matches,
1214
00:53:57.619 --> 00:54:00.670
he always fell short. That was a story they've been
1215
00:54:00.710 --> 00:54:03.250
telling with him, that he always just falls a little
1216
00:54:03.269 --> 00:54:06.210
bit short. And the story they're telling is that he
1217
00:54:06.269 --> 00:54:08.030
had to go to another place and he had to
1218
00:54:08.110 --> 00:54:11.679
show no remorse for doing the quote-unquote wrong thing in
1219
00:54:11.739 --> 00:54:14.280
order to get there. Because remember, he had that segment
1220
00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:16.639
with Orton a few months ago where he says... How
1221
00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:18.429
do you do what you do and not feel bad
1222
00:54:18.469 --> 00:54:20.429
about it? And Orton basically said, you just think you
1223
00:54:20.449 --> 00:54:23.570
have to do. Sammy's done that now. Sammy has taken
1224
00:54:23.610 --> 00:54:26.809
advantage of situations and not felt bad about it. And
1225
00:54:26.829 --> 00:54:29.750
that has allowed him to win this championship. And that's
1226
00:54:29.829 --> 00:54:32.760
obviously getting on fans' nerves. And he's running with that.
1227
00:54:33.460 --> 00:54:35.019
In a way, he's right because.
1228
00:54:36.440 --> 00:54:39.570
The fans initially started booing Sammy when they kind of
1229
00:54:39.610 --> 00:54:42.110
got tired against him and there was a shiny new
1230
00:54:42.190 --> 00:54:45.650
toy in Trick Williams. So Sammy did basically nothing wrong.
1231
00:54:46.190 --> 00:54:49.260
And it was the company, along with Trick and the crowd,
1232
00:54:49.699 --> 00:54:53.000
sort of trolling Sammy. That's what brought upon his heel turn.
1233
00:54:53.360 --> 00:54:55.679
So he is rocked. and everything he's saying he kind
1234
00:54:55.719 --> 00:54:58.199
of is the good guy here he's just going along
1235
00:54:58.239 --> 00:55:00.440
with what basically everyone told him he had to do
1236
00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:03.110
that's the genius of the whole thing he is kind
1237
00:55:03.139 --> 00:55:05.570
of holding a mirror to the audience and the company
1238
00:55:05.690 --> 00:55:07.690
and they don't like it so in a way he
1239
00:55:08.210 --> 00:55:10.510
is really kind of the last good guy he's just
1240
00:55:10.530 --> 00:55:13.969
showing everyone what's happened so that's what i love about this.
1241
00:55:13.809 --> 00:55:20.659
Eric Yeah, I agree. Sorry, my cat just jumped off
1242
00:55:20.699 --> 00:55:21.539
my lap and left me.
1243
00:55:21.619 --> 00:55:22.659
There's always cats on the show.
1244
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:25.309
Covered in fur because he's 16 years old and he's
1245
00:55:25.349 --> 00:55:29.219
shedding a lot. Anyway, sorry. No, I forgot where we
1246
00:55:29.239 --> 00:55:29.420
were at.
1247
00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:34.639
No, I was just basically saying, Eric, how Sammy, he's
1248
00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:35.380
right in what he's saying.
1249
00:55:35.420 --> 00:55:36.519
He's kind of the last good guy.
1250
00:55:36.539 --> 00:55:38.869
And he's kind of had to resort to these type
1251
00:55:38.889 --> 00:55:41.349
of actions because everyone's kind of forced him into it,
1252
00:55:41.389 --> 00:55:43.929
so to speak. Whereas you have the Cody character sort
1253
00:55:43.949 --> 00:55:46.880
of rejecting all of this. Cody's saying in his interview,
1254
00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:48.780
everyone's saying, I have to do this, but I'm not
1255
00:55:48.820 --> 00:55:51.960
going to. Because I've proven in the past, I didn't
1256
00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:54.179
have to resort to these actions in order to get
1257
00:55:54.199 --> 00:55:55.900
where I needed to be. So you asked me to
1258
00:55:55.960 --> 00:55:58.179
do something that I really kind of don't have to
1259
00:55:58.500 --> 00:56:01.360
because the results have shown I don't have to do that.
1260
00:56:01.820 --> 00:56:04.519
So there's a bit of a contrast between Cody and Sammy.
1261
00:56:04.820 --> 00:56:07.530
One's chosen to go one path. Cody's choosing not to
1262
00:56:07.570 --> 00:56:10.449
go down that path in order to receive the desired results.
1263
00:56:11.230 --> 00:56:14.849
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And honestly, Jason, Chad, Wade,
1264
00:56:15.750 --> 00:56:19.639
if Sammy Zane came out next week on SmackDown and said, hey,
1265
00:56:20.500 --> 00:56:23.739
I'm so sorry. I've resorted to the way I've been.
1266
00:56:24.639 --> 00:56:26.860
Because I wasn't winning and you guys kept holding it
1267
00:56:26.920 --> 00:56:29.000
against me that I wouldn't win the big one. And
1268
00:56:29.019 --> 00:56:31.269
then you started booing me and I didn't even understand
1269
00:56:31.329 --> 00:56:33.849
why because I wasn't doing anything wrong against Trick Williams
1270
00:56:33.909 --> 00:56:36.510
and you guys just decided you didn't like me anymore.
1271
00:56:37.070 --> 00:56:38.889
So I kind of just decided, well, if no one
1272
00:56:38.909 --> 00:56:40.570
likes me, I might as well be not liked and
1273
00:56:40.590 --> 00:56:43.110
at least win. So I just kind of like went
1274
00:56:43.130 --> 00:56:45.670
against my better instincts and I'm so sorry. And then
1275
00:56:45.710 --> 00:56:47.610
if he did that and then just acted like a
1276
00:56:47.670 --> 00:56:52.599
good guy next week, I bet you he would be fine. Yeah, yeah.
1277
00:56:53.449 --> 00:56:56.289
That would be quite the turnaround, but it'd actually be
1278
00:56:56.329 --> 00:56:58.630
a fun challenge to take on. Like, can you turn
1279
00:56:58.730 --> 00:57:00.650
Sammy into the number one baby face in the company
1280
00:57:00.690 --> 00:57:01.150
in seven days?
1281
00:57:01.530 --> 00:57:02.690
Or in one promo?
1282
00:57:02.809 --> 00:57:03.010
Yeah.
1283
00:57:03.989 --> 00:57:05.630
I mean, he probably could, because I think, you know,
1284
00:57:05.650 --> 00:57:08.769
deep down, people like him. Like I said, I think
1285
00:57:08.809 --> 00:57:10.730
part of the reason people are as mad at him
1286
00:57:10.849 --> 00:57:14.469
as they are is, one, he plays a whining victim role.
1287
00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:17.889
You know, really well, but deep down, there's a lot
1288
00:57:17.909 --> 00:57:19.110
of respect for him.
1289
00:57:19.250 --> 00:57:22.929
Well, his, and before the trick feud, correct me if
1290
00:57:22.989 --> 00:57:26.349
I'm wrong, if I'm remembering this incorrectly, there were many
1291
00:57:26.389 --> 00:57:29.590
of us Crofton included myself included. We were looking at
1292
00:57:29.630 --> 00:57:32.190
the idea of Sammy Zane winning the championship for the
1293
00:57:32.230 --> 00:57:34.579
first time in Saudi Arabia as a baby face.
1294
00:57:35.019 --> 00:57:35.199
Yeah.
1295
00:57:35.400 --> 00:57:37.619
That's where we were at. And that wasn't that long ago.
1296
00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:38.179
I know.
1297
00:57:38.199 --> 00:57:39.039
That's crazy.
1298
00:57:39.199 --> 00:57:39.420
Yes.
1299
00:57:39.559 --> 00:57:41.980
It didn't seem like Sammy was going to turn. And
1300
00:57:42.019 --> 00:57:43.920
it felt like the fans turned him, even though he
1301
00:57:43.940 --> 00:57:45.940
didn't do anything. It was more because they were cheering
1302
00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:47.570
Trick more than anything else.
1303
00:57:49.070 --> 00:57:49.679
Jason, back to you.
1304
00:57:50.800 --> 00:57:53.789
Well, you know, you're talking about what can other wrestlers
1305
00:57:53.849 --> 00:57:56.170
do to sort of... At the end of the day,
1306
00:57:56.250 --> 00:57:58.570
you have to be able to talk in your promos
1307
00:57:58.630 --> 00:58:01.570
and in your backstage segments and conduct yourself in a
1308
00:58:01.610 --> 00:58:04.449
way with... Whatever you're saying and doing, it has to
1309
00:58:04.489 --> 00:58:06.219
come across like it's off the top of your head.
1310
00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:09.920
You cannot come across as scripted. And that's hard to
1311
00:58:09.940 --> 00:58:12.639
do because you have to have extreme confidence in your
1312
00:58:12.699 --> 00:58:15.130
character and you have to know where you're heading as
1313
00:58:15.190 --> 00:58:18.849
a character and what your motivations are. Not enough wrestlers
1314
00:58:18.909 --> 00:58:21.349
are like that. They come across a little bit too scripted.
1315
00:58:22.219 --> 00:58:24.599
But not everyone has that gift. Like Sammy just comes
1316
00:58:24.659 --> 00:58:27.860
across like everything is just happening and he's just reacting in.
1317
00:58:27.829 --> 00:58:28.409
A certain way.
1318
00:58:28.429 --> 00:58:32.150
Little things he does, like he might even stumble over
1319
00:58:32.190 --> 00:58:34.090
a few words to make it seem like he's not,
1320
00:58:34.809 --> 00:58:36.769
because most of us do stumble over our words when
1321
00:58:36.789 --> 00:58:38.570
we're talking off the top of our head. You have
1322
00:58:38.630 --> 00:58:40.800
to have that certain way about you. Not many have that.
1323
00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:43.659
So that's what separates him as a performer from other people.
1324
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:47.860
So I wanted to talk about just quickly in a
1325
00:58:47.900 --> 00:58:51.460
macro sense, like you're talking about You know, the referees
1326
00:58:51.539 --> 00:58:53.219
and what happened at the end, was that meant to
1327
00:58:53.260 --> 00:58:53.920
happen or not?
1328
00:58:54.300 --> 00:58:54.480
Yeah.
1329
00:58:55.400 --> 00:58:59.010
Look, it sounds ideal that you would have the referees
1330
00:58:59.010 --> 00:59:01.820
count the three, even if it's not meant to be
1331
00:59:01.820 --> 00:59:05.059
a three, like, and have the wrestlers kick out. But
1332
00:59:05.059 --> 00:59:08.400
that's that that can't happen for real because if you
1333
00:59:08.440 --> 00:59:11.019
look at Roman Reigns who's mastered the art of kicking
1334
00:59:11.059 --> 00:59:14.980
out a 2.99 that involves Roman sort of kicking out
1335
00:59:15.739 --> 00:59:19.519
even after the referee stops his count or her count
1336
00:59:19.559 --> 00:59:23.119
for a two Because if that was happening in real life,
1337
00:59:23.500 --> 00:59:25.639
the referee's reaction wouldn't match.
1338
00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:28.280
It would be delayed when Roman kicks out.
1339
00:59:28.340 --> 00:59:32.019
Like, you wouldn't be able to have those dramatic 2.99 counts.
1340
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:33.139
It sounds good in theory.
1341
00:59:33.440 --> 00:59:35.739
You would almost have to kick out just after the
1342
00:59:35.800 --> 00:59:38.750
referee hits two because you'd have a delay in reaction time.
1343
00:59:39.070 --> 00:59:41.489
It wouldn't work. It has to be in sync.
1344
00:59:42.190 --> 00:59:44.230
Yeah, I mean, I'm an advocate for.
1345
00:59:45.130 --> 00:59:48.409
doing it except in the biggest moments ever that changed
1346
00:59:48.429 --> 00:59:50.829
the course of everything or when it's clear someone is
1347
00:59:50.929 --> 00:59:55.369
about is in the process of kicking out and then
1348
00:59:55.409 --> 00:59:57.590
it becomes even in storyline i would argue jason a
1349
00:59:57.610 --> 01:00:03.090
judgment call by the referee let's say 2.99 turns into 3.02
1350
01:00:03.090 --> 01:00:05.309
well you can still go well the ref's discretion when
1351
01:00:05.349 --> 01:00:07.010
is a shoulder up how much of the shoulder that's
1352
01:00:07.050 --> 01:00:09.010
sort of it's just a ball and a strike called
1353
01:00:09.050 --> 01:00:10.750
by an umpire it's it's it's you know well now
1354
01:00:10.789 --> 01:00:12.710
it's all out of you know it's automated and challenged
1355
01:00:12.750 --> 01:00:17.340
but Um, there's this level of subjectivity to it. It's less, um,
1356
01:00:18.460 --> 01:00:21.639
it's less obvious than when a wrestler like flails their legs.
1357
01:00:22.699 --> 01:00:24.380
But their shoulders are still down. You know what I mean?
1358
01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:25.039
Like that's it.
1359
01:00:25.380 --> 01:00:27.949
I think it's the idea of it's not just kicking
1360
01:00:27.989 --> 01:00:31.190
your legs. You got to also lift your shoulder. If
1361
01:00:31.230 --> 01:00:33.769
you're in a tag match and you're being pinned and
1362
01:00:33.809 --> 01:00:36.949
someone hits the guy, the guy covering you, your partner
1363
01:00:36.989 --> 01:00:38.829
hits him in the back. Well, if the guy's still
1364
01:00:38.849 --> 01:00:41.010
on top of your shoulders are still down, the ref
1365
01:00:41.030 --> 01:00:46.190
shouldn't stop counting because unless the save leads to a
1366
01:00:46.349 --> 01:00:48.550
lack of leverage so that you're able to actually lift
1367
01:00:48.590 --> 01:00:50.300
your shoulder up because the weight isn't on you fully anymore.
1368
01:00:50.780 --> 01:00:52.219
That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. It's just
1369
01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:55.599
hold wrestlers accountable for doing it. What you're describing is
1370
01:00:55.920 --> 01:00:57.659
clearly he's in the... The ref can see he's in
1371
01:00:57.679 --> 01:00:59.519
the process of doing the right thing.
1372
01:01:00.119 --> 01:01:00.539
And if you.
1373
01:01:01.769 --> 01:01:04.349
I'm fine with, at that point, of course, not going, well,
1374
01:01:04.849 --> 01:01:10.369
you did it at 3.06 seconds instead of 2.96 seconds,
1375
01:01:10.389 --> 01:01:11.849
so now I'm going to screw up all of the
1376
01:01:11.929 --> 01:01:12.489
WWE booking.
1377
01:01:12.550 --> 01:01:15.409
I'm for sure not advocating for that.
1378
01:01:21.599 --> 01:01:23.000
Longing for some nostalgia?
1379
01:01:23.500 --> 01:01:26.679
Or maybe you want to learn some wrestling history? Don't
1380
01:01:26.719 --> 01:01:30.239
miss the 90s Passcast every Friday on the PWTorch Daily
1381
01:01:30.280 --> 01:01:33.889
Cast feed. Alex and Patrick will transport you 30 years
1382
01:01:33.929 --> 01:01:36.769
into the past by taking you through the Torch.
1383
01:01:36.690 --> 01:01:38.030
Issue from that very week.
1384
01:01:38.670 --> 01:01:39.530
Follow news from.
1385
01:01:39.409 --> 01:01:41.769
The WWF and WCW and all.
1386
01:01:41.670 --> 01:01:44.110
The happenings from across the wrestling industry.
1387
01:01:43.880 --> 01:01:47.000
In real time as the Torch reported it 30 years ago.
1388
01:01:47.639 --> 01:01:50.539
That's the 90s past cast every Friday on the PW
1389
01:01:50.579 --> 01:01:51.800
Torch daily cast feed.
1390
01:02:02.110 --> 01:02:04.139
So I'm glad you brought that thing up because that's
1391
01:02:04.159 --> 01:02:06.809
one of my pet peeves. When guys get, when it's all.
1392
01:02:07.719 --> 01:02:10.280
The female wrestlers get rolled up, men or women, they
1393
01:02:10.320 --> 01:02:14.289
get rolled up, and instead of lifting their shoulders off
1394
01:02:14.329 --> 01:02:16.230
the mat, they kick out with their legs, but their
1395
01:02:16.269 --> 01:02:18.250
shoulders are still on the mat. I can't stand that.
1396
01:02:18.269 --> 01:02:20.590
That is a massive pet peeve of mine. You're just
1397
01:02:20.630 --> 01:02:22.889
kicking out, but you're not lifting up your shoulders. But
1398
01:02:22.929 --> 01:02:25.130
you'll also notice a lot of things that referees do
1399
01:02:25.590 --> 01:02:27.849
that know that it's not going to be a three count,
1400
01:02:27.909 --> 01:02:29.369
and this takes me out of the moment too.
1401
01:02:29.730 --> 01:02:31.909
They'll go one, two, and then.
1402
01:02:31.809 --> 01:02:34.750
Before they do the three, they blatantly scoop their arm
1403
01:02:34.849 --> 01:02:37.449
up so there's no chance of their arm hitting the mat.
1404
01:02:37.969 --> 01:02:39.949
You know that was always going to be a two count.
1405
01:02:40.489 --> 01:02:41.869
That just has to be better technique.
1406
01:02:42.409 --> 01:02:43.800
One thing you can do is just not tell referees
1407
01:02:43.820 --> 01:02:46.039
what the finish is and let the wrestlers know the
1408
01:02:46.099 --> 01:02:49.599
referee does not know the finish. So you need to
1409
01:02:49.659 --> 01:02:53.059
be sure it is clear to the referee whether your
1410
01:02:53.099 --> 01:02:55.519
shoulders are supposed to be down or not. If you
1411
01:02:55.539 --> 01:02:58.530
told wrestlers the ref does not know and he is
1412
01:02:58.570 --> 01:03:01.570
instructed to count three whenever he sees your shoulders down,
1413
01:03:01.630 --> 01:03:03.329
guess what wrestlers are going to do? So they don't
1414
01:03:03.369 --> 01:03:06.550
get yelled at. in the back by screwing everything up,
1415
01:03:06.559 --> 01:03:07.800
they're going to be sure they lift their shoulders.
1416
01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:09.739
It's an easily fixable problem. That's the point.
1417
01:03:09.760 --> 01:03:12.539
There's no downside to fixing it other than people have
1418
01:03:12.579 --> 01:03:15.599
to be mentally attentive to something that they should have
1419
01:03:15.619 --> 01:03:16.000
been anyway.
1420
01:03:16.079 --> 01:03:16.920
So anyway, I.
1421
01:03:18.519 --> 01:03:20.099
Know what you're saying, but then my point would be,
1422
01:03:20.139 --> 01:03:23.940
you wouldn't get those dramatic 2.99 counts because.
1423
01:03:23.079 --> 01:03:24.989
You wouldn't be able to time it. And that would
1424
01:03:25.010 --> 01:03:26.610
take them. You just wouldn't get those.
1425
01:03:26.630 --> 01:03:29.809
So I will, the asterisk would be, if you're going
1426
01:03:29.829 --> 01:03:33.630
to do 2.99 at a dramatic moment, The referee, the
1427
01:03:33.650 --> 01:03:36.699
wrestler should know the referee is in on that. But frankly,
1428
01:03:36.719 --> 01:03:38.920
you shouldn't overdo. I mean, maybe you think, Jason, that
1429
01:03:38.940 --> 01:03:41.119
should be in every match, but I don't want to.
1430
01:03:41.820 --> 01:03:42.460
OK, good, good.
1431
01:03:42.780 --> 01:03:45.289
So on the big matches, when you do two point
1432
01:03:45.329 --> 01:03:49.469
nine nine, obviously WrestleMania main event, whatever Roman Reigns matches,
1433
01:03:49.489 --> 01:03:51.440
you know, everyone's dialed in.
1434
01:03:51.989 --> 01:03:52.530
You know, do it.
1435
01:03:52.679 --> 01:03:57.420
I'm saying the bottom 80% of the card, the bottom
1436
01:03:57.420 --> 01:04:01.079
90% of matches instill good habits, because then when you
1437
01:04:01.099 --> 01:04:02.940
get to the Roman Reigns level, you already have a
1438
01:04:02.960 --> 01:04:05.360
good habit. You know, you're, you're there for a reason,
1439
01:04:05.719 --> 01:04:08.800
but instill from the, you know, from the entry level to,
1440
01:04:09.940 --> 01:04:12.420
you know, top tier, but not main event matches.
1441
01:04:12.940 --> 01:04:13.119
Yeah.
1442
01:04:13.159 --> 01:04:14.940
Got to lift your damn shoulder. Anyway, I don't want to,
1443
01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:17.079
I mean, philosophically, I agree with that. I don't want
1444
01:04:17.219 --> 01:04:18.739
to get bogged down in the minutia too much.
1445
01:04:19.719 --> 01:04:21.000
And I guess just one final thing.
1446
01:04:21.179 --> 01:04:23.090
One thing I slightly disagree on, and I might be
1447
01:04:23.110 --> 01:04:25.090
in the minority here with you guys and the guys
1448
01:04:25.130 --> 01:04:27.789
in the chat. Look, I didn't have an issue with
1449
01:04:28.230 --> 01:04:32.210
the finish today because, look, here's my thing.
1450
01:04:32.230 --> 01:04:33.929
And, again, you're probably not going to like hearing this.
1451
01:04:33.969 --> 01:04:36.530
You think I'm going to be rewarding bad behavior. But,
1452
01:04:37.349 --> 01:04:40.059
you know, you've got 12 PLEs, let's say. You've got
1453
01:04:40.119 --> 01:04:43.559
four Saturday night main events. There's 16 sort of big
1454
01:04:43.599 --> 01:04:46.559
events to go to. When I'm watching Raw and SmackDown,
1455
01:04:47.599 --> 01:04:49.820
I kind of know, I kind of don't expect to
1456
01:04:49.889 --> 01:04:54.030
see clean finishes. I don't mind if there's an interference
1457
01:04:54.510 --> 01:04:58.150
leading to a finish because there's 52 weeks a year.
1458
01:04:58.570 --> 01:05:01.449
And I'm positive that the number 52 is embedded in
1459
01:05:01.489 --> 01:05:03.690
Triple H's mind. Like he wakes up at night saying
1460
01:05:03.909 --> 01:05:06.190
it's 52 weeks. You know, like this thing just keeps
1461
01:05:06.250 --> 01:05:09.489
going and going and going. You just, you can't have
1462
01:05:09.510 --> 01:05:13.010
all these clean and decisive finishes all the time. And,
1463
01:05:14.730 --> 01:05:16.130
a lot of times it's a means to an end
1464
01:05:16.150 --> 01:05:18.269
to tell a greater story. I know you know that.
1465
01:05:18.889 --> 01:05:21.389
It doesn't bog me down as much because I'm kind
1466
01:05:21.409 --> 01:05:23.300
of used to it, but it doesn't take me out
1467
01:05:23.320 --> 01:05:24.489
of the moment, to be honest with you.
1468
01:05:24.530 --> 01:05:26.460
Like, I can watch it. I kind of knew there
1469
01:05:26.480 --> 01:05:28.139
was going to be interference in this match.
1470
01:05:28.480 --> 01:05:31.000
I can still enjoy the match, and I know basically
1471
01:05:31.019 --> 01:05:33.760
what's going to happen in the finish. um it doesn't
1472
01:05:33.800 --> 01:05:35.860
bother me where it would bother me is in the
1473
01:05:35.900 --> 01:05:39.000
big events like your pls and maybe even your saturday
1474
01:05:39.039 --> 01:05:41.159
night main events but when it comes to raw and
1475
01:05:41.199 --> 01:05:44.119
smackdown if there's a blatant interference and at least there's
1476
01:05:44.139 --> 01:05:46.909
someone getting pinned i kind of understand that and accept
1477
01:05:47.010 --> 01:05:48.829
it it doesn't take me out of the moment and
1478
01:05:48.849 --> 01:05:51.389
it doesn't make me feel less invested but maybe i'm
1479
01:05:51.409 --> 01:05:53.170
in the minority in this i don't know i'm just
1480
01:05:53.190 --> 01:05:54.309
saying from another point.
1481
01:05:54.190 --> 01:05:56.170
Of view now someone in the chat mentioned that earlier
1482
01:05:56.210 --> 01:05:57.929
jason that you know there's a different set of rules
1483
01:05:57.949 --> 01:06:01.110
for match finishes or different expectations the bar is different
1484
01:06:01.590 --> 01:06:05.500
i think you can say, believe in what I think
1485
01:06:05.639 --> 01:06:07.579
people can nod along to what you're saying, but also
1486
01:06:07.619 --> 01:06:12.630
say too much is still too much. And so, yeah,
1487
01:06:13.809 --> 01:06:16.429
what I want is I don't want there to be
1488
01:06:16.530 --> 01:06:18.789
such a predictability that the only time you get a
1489
01:06:18.829 --> 01:06:22.409
clean finish is in this situation. And you know, you're
1490
01:06:22.429 --> 01:06:24.309
not going to get one in this situation because this
1491
01:06:24.349 --> 01:06:27.780
situation is, is not the climax, but it's, it's telling
1492
01:06:27.840 --> 01:06:32.139
a story to lead to the climax because that now, well,
1493
01:06:33.150 --> 01:06:35.880
it flaunts, it shines a light on, it makes it
1494
01:06:35.980 --> 01:06:40.460
obvious that everything is booked in order to get to
1495
01:06:40.500 --> 01:06:45.190
the next chapter. And so if you had more, like
1496
01:06:45.329 --> 01:06:47.829
to me, I'd rather build into the structure of how,
1497
01:06:48.869 --> 01:06:49.989
and this is how it used to be done in
1498
01:06:50.010 --> 01:06:51.949
the territory. It's like a lumberjack match was a result
1499
01:06:52.179 --> 01:06:55.000
of heels running away from baby faces and getting counted
1500
01:06:55.039 --> 01:06:56.619
out intentionally. So we're going to bunch of wrestling side.
1501
01:06:56.639 --> 01:06:59.170
The heel can't run away or he, his cohorts can't interfere.
1502
01:06:59.650 --> 01:07:01.510
That's what a cage mask is for. So the people
1503
01:07:01.550 --> 01:07:02.989
can't appear. And now it's just become a little something
1504
01:07:03.030 --> 01:07:05.809
extra to add to the match. If you set it
1505
01:07:05.909 --> 01:07:11.469
up where on TV, there are finishes that aren't clean. One,
1506
01:07:11.510 --> 01:07:14.440
you need to decry it. You need to shame. The
1507
01:07:14.460 --> 01:07:17.079
announcers need to shame it. The GM needs to, there
1508
01:07:17.099 --> 01:07:19.579
needs to be ramifications for it. So as a viewer,
1509
01:07:19.599 --> 01:07:22.349
you can accept that it's happening, but, But you should
1510
01:07:22.449 --> 01:07:25.199
also have it stressed that it's not okay with everybody.
1511
01:07:25.239 --> 01:07:27.219
They're actually upset about it. It's not a cool moment
1512
01:07:27.260 --> 01:07:30.960
and it's exciting. It's something that actually... the, the, the,
1513
01:07:31.079 --> 01:07:34.699
the authority figures, the establishment's trying to fix. When did
1514
01:07:34.739 --> 01:07:37.420
they happen to fix it? When it's PLA time, that's
1515
01:07:37.480 --> 01:07:40.059
when they come up with no interference or you'll be
1516
01:07:40.099 --> 01:07:41.699
suspended or you'll be fired, or we're going to put
1517
01:07:41.719 --> 01:07:43.659
a cage. We're going to suspend the manager always interferes
1518
01:07:43.699 --> 01:07:46.179
in a cage above the ring, a shark cage. You,
1519
01:07:46.460 --> 01:07:49.280
so the, you can still then tell a more believable story.
1520
01:07:49.300 --> 01:07:51.699
So I think there's this huge middle ground between that's
1521
01:07:51.739 --> 01:07:55.530
a TV match. I accept that there's no finish. Do
1522
01:07:55.570 --> 01:07:58.039
you want that? If you're a promoter, Do you want
1523
01:07:58.099 --> 01:08:00.860
fans watching TV going, oh, they're advertising this world title match,
1524
01:08:01.519 --> 01:08:02.659
but I know we're not going to get a finish.
1525
01:08:02.840 --> 01:08:05.000
Then why do a freaking world title match if you've
1526
01:08:05.460 --> 01:08:10.699
instilled a belief through repetition that people disengage from being
1527
01:08:10.739 --> 01:08:13.269
immersed in it and intellectually go, I'm not going to
1528
01:08:13.289 --> 01:08:14.989
set myself up for a letdown. So I'm going to
1529
01:08:15.289 --> 01:08:17.310
just watch to be entertained. But I know there won't be.
1530
01:08:17.569 --> 01:08:19.109
You don't want your audience thinking that.
1531
01:08:19.909 --> 01:08:20.550
Right, Eric? Yeah.
1532
01:08:21.439 --> 01:08:23.739
No, not at all. I think we've been conditioned for
1533
01:08:23.779 --> 01:08:27.560
far too long to accept that interference is not the
1534
01:08:27.619 --> 01:08:30.930
exception to the rule. And I think very few matches
1535
01:08:30.939 --> 01:08:33.529
should have interference because, like you said, that makes it
1536
01:08:33.569 --> 01:08:37.289
important when you have it. If people continue to lose
1537
01:08:38.029 --> 01:08:42.189
fairly every week most of the time, it would be okay.
1538
01:08:42.689 --> 01:08:44.250
You don't have to be undefeated. You don't have to
1539
01:08:44.350 --> 01:08:47.069
never lose. You just win when you need to, and
1540
01:08:47.090 --> 01:08:49.989
that makes it important. You can use a cage match
1541
01:08:50.029 --> 01:08:53.260
as an example. when was the last time a cage
1542
01:08:53.340 --> 01:08:59.180
match existed to keep everyone out from interfering? Cause I
1543
01:08:59.220 --> 01:09:01.420
don't think that for a long time, all the cage
1544
01:09:01.460 --> 01:09:04.220
match now is if someone's in a cage match, you think, Oh,
1545
01:09:04.560 --> 01:09:06.739
that means they can use the cage as part of
1546
01:09:06.800 --> 01:09:07.199
the match.
1547
01:09:07.359 --> 01:09:08.380
It'll shorten the career.
1548
01:09:08.979 --> 01:09:09.180
Right.
1549
01:09:09.220 --> 01:09:10.899
That's the only thing people think about anymore. You don't
1550
01:09:10.939 --> 01:09:12.840
think this is to protect, you know, this is to
1551
01:09:12.880 --> 01:09:14.899
keep people out because it doesn't work anymore.
1552
01:09:14.920 --> 01:09:15.479
Yeah.
1553
01:09:15.550 --> 01:09:18.329
So it's just, I think they would just, and I
1554
01:09:18.350 --> 01:09:20.750
certainly wouldn't blame Jason or anybody else for thinking this
1555
01:09:20.810 --> 01:09:23.810
because we've all been conditioned for this for how many
1556
01:09:23.850 --> 01:09:26.449
years now? And it's just I think there's so many
1557
01:09:26.489 --> 01:09:31.359
more creative ways they could end matches than the five
1558
01:09:31.399 --> 01:09:32.399
or six ways they do now.
1559
01:09:33.399 --> 01:09:35.460
Yeah, and that might be overstating it. But yeah, how
1560
01:09:35.479 --> 01:09:38.079
many ways they are actually doing it. So, yeah, I'll
1561
01:09:38.420 --> 01:09:39.680
make a point, but I'll read a couple of things
1562
01:09:39.699 --> 01:09:42.159
from the chat first and throw back to Jason. Crofton says,
1563
01:09:42.300 --> 01:09:44.300
I just think that I have a different different expectations
1564
01:09:44.319 --> 01:09:46.909
for interference in WTV than I do for pay-per-views. The
1565
01:09:46.939 --> 01:09:48.760
TV is to further the story and pay-per-views should be
1566
01:09:48.779 --> 01:09:53.720
the culmination. So that is true. That is our expectation.
1567
01:09:54.039 --> 01:09:57.800
We are resigned to that. But I would argue that
1568
01:09:58.159 --> 01:10:00.619
if you're WWE, you don't embrace that and go, well,
1569
01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:05.750
nobody expects a finish. well, you're promoting Sami Zayn against
1570
01:10:05.810 --> 01:10:09.229
Kevin Owens with a top title in the company on
1571
01:10:09.250 --> 01:10:14.409
the line, and you have built into your audience's expectations
1572
01:10:14.949 --> 01:10:19.890
that this is not anywhere near as big of a
1573
01:10:19.949 --> 01:10:23.760
deal as if it were on a PLE. I don't
1574
01:10:23.770 --> 01:10:25.500
think you want that. I think you should look, is
1575
01:10:25.779 --> 01:10:30.119
there a third option here besides interference and shenanigans on
1576
01:10:30.159 --> 01:10:33.529
every TV title match? And by the way, it's not
1577
01:10:33.630 --> 01:10:34.649
obviously just reserved.
1578
01:10:34.430 --> 01:10:35.989
For TV either. We can look at what Randy Orton
1579
01:10:36.020 --> 01:10:39.420
did at SummerSlam as one of the go-to examples. They
1580
01:10:39.460 --> 01:10:40.340
do do it on PLE.
1581
01:10:40.420 --> 01:10:42.359
And I think the argument you're making, Jason, maybe Crofton
1582
01:10:42.399 --> 01:10:45.600
is I'm just less upset when it's quote on free
1583
01:10:46.260 --> 01:10:49.119
USA network that I pay for cable on or Netflix
1584
01:10:49.140 --> 01:10:53.949
that I pay to watch versus ESPN plus that I
1585
01:10:53.989 --> 01:10:55.609
pay the same that I pay for. I mean, ESPN
1586
01:10:55.630 --> 01:10:57.489
plus like 32 bucks a month. Netflix is like.
1587
01:10:57.369 --> 01:10:58.949
25 bucks a month. I mean, it's not that different
1588
01:10:59.010 --> 01:11:00.630
to get USA network. You got to buy cable.
1589
01:11:01.220 --> 01:11:04.420
Or, you know, Sling or DirecTV or whatever, you're paying
1590
01:11:04.439 --> 01:11:07.539
for everything now. So just because something happens to be
1591
01:11:07.579 --> 01:11:10.729
on a Sunday without a bunch of promos and the
1592
01:11:10.770 --> 01:11:12.390
other thing is on a Monday or a Friday, I
1593
01:11:12.409 --> 01:11:14.510
don't know that it's that big of a difference either.
1594
01:11:15.189 --> 01:11:17.949
So I would just advocate for, you know, a better
1595
01:11:18.069 --> 01:11:23.430
word is admonish than shame. Although sometimes I think shame them.
1596
01:11:24.750 --> 01:11:27.270
But as Satellite Vision 3 pointed out, when Haku interfered,
1597
01:11:27.310 --> 01:11:30.569
Michael Cole said MFT, quote, made a statement instead of
1598
01:11:30.609 --> 01:11:35.600
admonishing them. And that's that force neutrality in their commentary. Oh,
1599
01:11:35.619 --> 01:11:40.600
I won't take sides. It's okay. It's not just okay.
1600
01:11:40.640 --> 01:11:42.970
It is a positive to take a side when someone
1601
01:11:43.010 --> 01:11:44.850
is violating the sanctity of the whole reason we're here,
1602
01:11:44.890 --> 01:11:48.090
which is ostensibly to find out who the better competitor is.
1603
01:11:48.609 --> 01:11:49.510
And that did not happen.
1604
01:11:49.550 --> 01:11:51.890
When a match gets ruined because Brick Baker makes a
1605
01:11:51.930 --> 01:11:55.069
return or Haku starts attacking one of the wrestlers, you
1606
01:11:55.109 --> 01:11:57.970
admonish that. You don't just neutrally say this is what
1607
01:11:58.029 --> 01:11:59.289
happened and it's a statement.
1608
01:12:00.829 --> 01:12:02.229
So, Jason, I know I've said a lot.
1609
01:12:02.449 --> 01:12:04.050
You probably have some clarification on your point of view
1610
01:12:04.090 --> 01:12:05.350
or something to follow up on. So I definitely want
1611
01:12:05.369 --> 01:12:06.470
to give you a chance before I go further here.
1612
01:12:07.439 --> 01:12:09.180
Well, not to pull a Sammy here and sort of
1613
01:12:09.229 --> 01:12:13.000
like say, well, technically, we technically did get a finish.
1614
01:12:13.479 --> 01:12:16.140
It's just not the finish that you like. We got
1615
01:12:16.180 --> 01:12:19.340
a finish. The match wasn't thrown out. We got a finish,
1616
01:12:19.380 --> 01:12:20.920
but you didn't like the interference.
1617
01:12:21.239 --> 01:12:21.399
Yeah.
1618
01:12:21.960 --> 01:12:22.819
No, no, that's fair.
1619
01:12:22.859 --> 01:12:25.199
I mean, I think the point is there, even if
1620
01:12:25.220 --> 01:12:28.199
the semantics you're right on, I think the point is,
1621
01:12:28.260 --> 01:12:32.939
is you'd like to see a conclusion to a title
1622
01:12:33.000 --> 01:12:37.630
match that is, feels like it was a result of
1623
01:12:37.670 --> 01:12:40.149
the moves that happened for 10 or 15 minutes leading
1624
01:12:40.189 --> 01:12:42.829
up to the pinfall or submission, as opposed to we
1625
01:12:42.850 --> 01:12:45.489
put on an exhibition for 10 or 15 minutes and
1626
01:12:45.510 --> 01:12:47.310
we do near falls and we go through the motions
1627
01:12:47.380 --> 01:12:49.319
and the announcers pretend it could have ended, but we
1628
01:12:49.380 --> 01:12:56.020
know almost for sure it won't. And then we just
1629
01:12:56.039 --> 01:12:58.100
accept that because it's TV, right?
1630
01:12:58.600 --> 01:12:58.979
Yeah.
1631
01:12:59.899 --> 01:13:03.079
See, if I'm WWE, I reckon they think to themselves, listen,
1632
01:13:03.300 --> 01:13:06.220
for people that are upset about this, we gave you
1633
01:13:06.239 --> 01:13:10.960
a clean finish with Penta and Roman Reigns on Monday.
1634
01:13:11.439 --> 01:13:14.000
We made you believe that Penta had a really good
1635
01:13:14.060 --> 01:13:14.819
shot of winning this.
1636
01:13:14.840 --> 01:13:14.960
Mm-hmm.
1637
01:13:15.930 --> 01:13:18.390
And then that was exactly what you would want in
1638
01:13:18.409 --> 01:13:21.750
the sort of that sports-like field. There's no interference. We
1639
01:13:21.810 --> 01:13:24.470
made you buy in. We gave you that. We gave
1640
01:13:24.489 --> 01:13:26.529
you that on Monday. We can afford to do this
1641
01:13:26.630 --> 01:13:28.670
on Friday too. We're kind of giving you the best
1642
01:13:28.729 --> 01:13:31.550
because we have to forward this story here. There's no
1643
01:13:31.590 --> 01:13:33.600
further story with Penta and Roman. So that had a
1644
01:13:33.609 --> 01:13:37.439
decisive finish. but we can't have Sami Zayn defeat Kevin
1645
01:13:37.479 --> 01:13:39.920
Owens clean here because then Kevin Owens is going to
1646
01:13:39.960 --> 01:13:42.500
lose credibility with the audience about why would he want
1647
01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:45.000
to get a rematch? Because we've already established that Johnny
1648
01:13:45.020 --> 01:13:47.060
Gargano can't get one because he lost as well.
1649
01:13:47.439 --> 01:13:50.409
So we needed this finish to further the story.
1650
01:13:51.289 --> 01:13:55.569
Jason, I say all the time, each individual circumstance you
1651
01:13:55.590 --> 01:13:58.529
can defend based on the way WWE tells stories. But
1652
01:13:58.569 --> 01:14:01.800
at some point, Somebody needs to step back and go,
1653
01:14:02.180 --> 01:14:04.199
we can defend every one of them, but can we
1654
01:14:04.239 --> 01:14:07.880
defend the frequency of how often we do the defensible?
1655
01:14:08.579 --> 01:14:12.729
And if that frequency turns the entire structure of the
1656
01:14:12.770 --> 01:14:15.109
way you're trying to tell stories into a complete farce
1657
01:14:15.810 --> 01:14:19.609
that's predictable and undercuts the whole point you even established
1658
01:14:19.649 --> 01:14:23.050
a title match in the first place, then I would
1659
01:14:23.069 --> 01:14:24.930
say it's time to reevaluate and look for other options
1660
01:14:24.970 --> 01:14:27.239
and do more clean finishes. Now, let me insert before
1661
01:14:27.279 --> 01:14:29.100
you go, Eric. I'm willing to step back and go,
1662
01:14:29.159 --> 01:14:31.619
you know what? Wade, you're right about everything, but there's
1663
01:14:31.659 --> 01:14:36.989
not a better way. What's the story? Capitalism is... I
1664
01:14:37.510 --> 01:14:38.890
don't know who said it, and I can't say it
1665
01:14:38.909 --> 01:14:42.090
really smoothly, but capitalism is full of flaws, but it
1666
01:14:42.170 --> 01:14:45.789
is by far the best system of government of a
1667
01:14:45.829 --> 01:14:50.949
country existing. compared to all the alternatives. Uh, someone, someone
1668
01:14:50.970 --> 01:14:52.289
look up the quote and put it in the chat
1669
01:14:52.310 --> 01:14:53.430
so I can, so I can quote it.
1670
01:14:53.449 --> 01:14:53.590
Yeah.
1671
01:14:53.909 --> 01:14:56.630
Um, cause I butchered it badly. Um, but yeah, capitalism
1672
01:14:56.670 --> 01:14:58.800
is badly flawed, but it's superior to any other alternative.
1673
01:14:59.229 --> 01:15:01.119
So maybe that's the argument. And you know what? I
1674
01:15:01.159 --> 01:15:02.520
can listen to that. Hey, wait, you're right.
1675
01:15:02.720 --> 01:15:05.140
We've turned world title matches into a farce. TV matches
1676
01:15:05.180 --> 01:15:08.239
are predictable, but Jason explains why we do it. And
1677
01:15:08.260 --> 01:15:10.060
we don't really know if there's another way to do it.
1678
01:15:10.119 --> 01:15:12.069
Cause then we can't have a world title match on SmackDown.
1679
01:15:12.829 --> 01:15:14.869
We think that helps makes USA feel they're paying us
1680
01:15:14.890 --> 01:15:18.430
for something important. So yeah, So I disagree with that,
1681
01:15:18.529 --> 01:15:20.800
but I'm willing to say there's an argument to be
1682
01:15:20.850 --> 01:15:24.699
made that you're pointing out stuff. If you're WWE's creative team,
1683
01:15:24.720 --> 01:15:27.850
they go, we know everything you're saying. We're embarrassed by it.
1684
01:15:28.060 --> 01:15:30.640
We're not proud, but we can't think of another way
1685
01:15:30.659 --> 01:15:32.899
to fill this much TV time and tell our stories
1686
01:15:33.100 --> 01:15:34.970
other than this. So if you've got ideas, let us know,
1687
01:15:35.550 --> 01:15:37.329
but we're willing to live with all the consequences that
1688
01:15:37.350 --> 01:15:41.020
you rightfully point out. Because it's structurally, we kind of
1689
01:15:41.050 --> 01:15:42.310
have to do with it. This is not a one
1690
01:15:42.329 --> 01:15:44.689
hour TV show with squashes every week, like the territory
1691
01:15:44.729 --> 01:15:47.050
days with a one with once a month house shows
1692
01:15:47.069 --> 01:15:49.489
where we blow up, where we have matches. We're in
1693
01:15:49.510 --> 01:15:51.489
a different business now. And that's where we're making billions
1694
01:15:51.510 --> 01:15:53.449
of dollars because we throw a world ton of matches
1695
01:15:53.489 --> 01:15:56.000
on TV left and right. So I'm willing to listen
1696
01:15:56.020 --> 01:15:57.800
to that, but I think a discussion could be had
1697
01:15:57.840 --> 01:15:58.310
to read it in.
1698
01:16:00.119 --> 01:16:00.340
Jason.
1699
01:16:01.819 --> 01:16:01.979
Yeah.
1700
01:16:02.380 --> 01:16:05.060
No, I see where you're coming from, Wade. I see
1701
01:16:05.100 --> 01:16:07.460
where WWE is coming from. I kind of fall in
1702
01:16:07.500 --> 01:16:09.119
the middle, but I kind of see everyone's point of view.
1703
01:16:09.460 --> 01:16:11.439
Before I go, I thought the comment of the night,
1704
01:16:11.520 --> 01:16:13.569
and I love this because this is Kevin Owens' character,
1705
01:16:14.029 --> 01:16:17.609
when he says to Nick Aldis, you don't reward bad behavior.
1706
01:16:17.909 --> 01:16:21.829
And then he listed all the times that Nick Aldis
1707
01:16:21.850 --> 01:16:24.529
did reward bad behavior with Sami. And Aldis was like, yeah,
1708
01:16:24.550 --> 01:16:24.970
you're right.
1709
01:16:25.390 --> 01:16:26.750
Yeah, you're right. All right, you got me.
1710
01:16:27.229 --> 01:16:31.539
Because when Aldis said, we don't reward bad behavior, I
1711
01:16:31.539 --> 01:16:33.359
was thinking of all the times, all the amount of
1712
01:16:33.399 --> 01:16:35.619
people that interfere in matches and then they get rewarded
1713
01:16:35.659 --> 01:16:38.659
with title shots or things just go their way because
1714
01:16:38.680 --> 01:16:41.840
they happen to interfere. So management has had a long
1715
01:16:41.899 --> 01:16:45.779
history in storyline wise of rewarding bad behavior. So I
1716
01:16:45.819 --> 01:16:48.340
thought it was very good of Kevin Owens character of
1717
01:16:48.380 --> 01:16:50.850
all characters to say, now, wait a minute, you're wrong there.
1718
01:16:51.060 --> 01:16:52.770
Just like when he said, now, wait a minute, a
1719
01:16:52.829 --> 01:16:55.229
wrestler came out, but their music didn't hit. Are you
1720
01:16:55.270 --> 01:16:57.310
really meant to be here? So I thought that was
1721
01:16:57.369 --> 01:16:59.729
a nice little touch there. So I'll leave it at that.
1722
01:16:59.789 --> 01:17:00.810
Good talking to you again, guys.
1723
01:17:01.529 --> 01:17:03.979
Thanks, Jason. I always appreciate it.
1724
01:17:04.680 --> 01:17:08.000
Jason always will bring another way of looking at things,
1725
01:17:08.119 --> 01:17:13.159
and I love it. I invite and encourage pushback and arguments.
1726
01:17:13.180 --> 01:17:14.619
Just make sure it's a good one. Jason usually brings
1727
01:17:14.640 --> 01:17:14.899
a good one.
1728
01:17:15.180 --> 01:17:15.420
Usually.
1729
01:17:15.560 --> 01:17:20.420
There's like two times his card ever gets sucked. But
1730
01:17:20.520 --> 01:17:23.039
the other 99 were great, Jason, so thank you. He's
1731
01:17:23.079 --> 01:17:23.960
not here anymore to defend himself.
1732
01:17:26.090 --> 01:17:29.390
Did you know that you can enjoy commercial-free versions of
1733
01:17:29.590 --> 01:17:32.109
all of your favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PWTorch daily
1734
01:17:32.149 --> 01:17:37.020
casts on Spotify? Just go to patreon.com, search PWTorch, and
1735
01:17:37.060 --> 01:17:40.100
subscribe to a VIP membership tier. You get a seven-day
1736
01:17:40.140 --> 01:17:42.100
free trial, by the way, to kick the tires a
1737
01:17:42.119 --> 01:17:44.340
bit and see if you like the service. And then
1738
01:17:44.460 --> 01:17:46.710
sync it with Spotify, and you can listen to commercial-free
1739
01:17:46.750 --> 01:17:49.369
versions of our free shows, like the Wade Keller post shows,
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01:17:49.409 --> 01:17:52.250
the Wade Keller podcast flagship, our flashbacks, and also the
1741
01:17:52.270 --> 01:17:55.909
PWTorch daily cast lineup. Again, all commercial-free, a nice streamlined
1742
01:17:55.930 --> 01:17:59.090
listening experience. But with third-tier membership, you can also unlock
1743
01:17:59.310 --> 01:18:02.180
all the VIP podcasts, including Everything with Rich and Wade,
1744
01:18:02.189 --> 01:18:03.800
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1745
01:18:03.810 --> 01:18:08.199
every week, the Wade Keller News Bulletin's post-pay-per-view roundtables, and
1746
01:18:08.239 --> 01:18:11.800
an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts with different hosts and
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01:18:11.840 --> 01:18:15.779
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1748
01:18:15.859 --> 01:18:19.399
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1749
01:18:19.560 --> 01:18:21.420
or stay within the Patreon ecosystem.
1750
01:18:21.899 --> 01:18:22.479
Either way works.
1751
01:18:22.699 --> 01:18:25.800
Go to Patreon and start your seven day free trial.
1752
01:18:28.699 --> 01:18:32.739
To Jason's point about saying, Hey, we got the clean
1753
01:18:32.819 --> 01:18:35.859
Roman Roman Penta match on Monday. And so it's okay.
1754
01:18:35.909 --> 01:18:37.890
They did this on SmackDown. I understand where he's coming
1755
01:18:37.909 --> 01:18:40.729
from with that. Where I would push back a little
1756
01:18:40.750 --> 01:18:44.189
bit is that having that clean match on Monday night,
1757
01:18:44.289 --> 01:18:46.850
wasn't enough for me to start watching tonight's main event,
1758
01:18:46.909 --> 01:18:48.689
thinking there wasn't going to be a bunch of interference
1759
01:18:48.729 --> 01:18:50.899
at the end of it. And, if they would get
1760
01:18:50.939 --> 01:18:53.680
us to a point where they give us enough clean finishes,
1761
01:18:53.739 --> 01:18:57.300
where we don't expect interference, that's when it's a good
1762
01:18:57.340 --> 01:18:58.560
time to do it in my opinion.
1763
01:19:00.420 --> 01:19:04.180
Um, okay. Good, good, good comments. I looked up the quote.
1764
01:19:05.210 --> 01:19:07.569
Um, Derek Mitchell offered one that is not what I
1765
01:19:07.600 --> 01:19:10.060
was going for, um, in the chat, but I looked
1766
01:19:10.100 --> 01:19:13.279
up it's Winston Churchill and he said, capitalism is the
1767
01:19:13.460 --> 01:19:16.199
worst economic system, except for all.
1768
01:19:16.140 --> 01:19:17.119
The others that have been tried.
1769
01:19:19.720 --> 01:19:20.340
Um, yes.
1770
01:19:20.880 --> 01:19:24.420
And, uh, Gary Kasparov said the failure of capitalism is
1771
01:19:24.439 --> 01:19:27.149
still much better than the success of socialism. So there's a,
1772
01:19:27.579 --> 01:19:28.850
that's not the quote I was looking for, but there's
1773
01:19:28.859 --> 01:19:30.689
all kinds of go-to quotes when, when it comes to,
1774
01:19:31.010 --> 01:19:37.810
you know, different economic systems. Um, and, uh, having, uh, yeah, anyway,
1775
01:19:37.819 --> 01:19:39.390
I don't want to get political. I think there's, I
1776
01:19:39.409 --> 01:19:42.449
think there's some middle grounds too, with, with, uh, capitalism
1777
01:19:42.489 --> 01:19:45.310
and socialism, not being, uh, ugly words and scary words,
1778
01:19:45.350 --> 01:19:51.170
but instead, uh, uh, a common sense blend of, uh, of, uh, pragmatic, uh,
1779
01:19:51.369 --> 01:19:53.789
a little pragmatic use of both like social security is
1780
01:19:54.090 --> 01:19:57.109
really good use of socialism, but, um, having to work
1781
01:19:57.170 --> 01:19:58.689
hard and show up to work on time and to
1782
01:19:58.720 --> 01:20:00.859
get raises and get job promotions is capitalism. And I
1783
01:20:00.880 --> 01:20:02.840
like that too, because otherwise, you know, you don't have
1784
01:20:02.859 --> 01:20:04.819
an incentive built in. So We don't have to pick
1785
01:20:04.880 --> 01:20:09.739
one or the other and have people freak out over
1786
01:20:09.779 --> 01:20:11.819
just a word. Let's look at the practical use of each.
1787
01:20:11.880 --> 01:20:14.670
But I do quote, capitalism's worst economic system, except for
1788
01:20:14.689 --> 01:20:15.630
all the others that have been tried.
1789
01:20:15.649 --> 01:20:16.970
I'll fly back to wrestling.
1790
01:20:17.890 --> 01:20:21.810
The way we book TV finishes is the worst way
1791
01:20:21.829 --> 01:20:25.130
to book television, except for all the alternatives that we
1792
01:20:25.210 --> 01:20:27.760
discuss behind the scenes that we think we could do instead.
1793
01:20:28.859 --> 01:20:30.399
I do think there is probably a bit of a
1794
01:20:30.420 --> 01:20:33.500
resignation there with all, as Jason D points out, with
1795
01:20:33.560 --> 01:20:36.100
all the all the TV time we have to fill.
1796
01:20:36.520 --> 01:20:40.060
I just mix it up enough that it doesn't mix
1797
01:20:40.100 --> 01:20:40.520
it up enough.
1798
01:20:40.600 --> 01:20:43.060
And just like, you know, the term I used last
1799
01:20:43.079 --> 01:20:44.960
year with Paula Beck a lot was brave booking. We
1800
01:20:44.979 --> 01:20:47.229
just need more brave booking. We need Paula Beck to
1801
01:20:47.250 --> 01:20:50.409
book more clean finishes because each individual instance of distractions
1802
01:20:50.449 --> 01:20:53.689
and interference and shenanigans, you can justify in the moment,
1803
01:20:54.250 --> 01:20:56.529
but you got to step back and go, wait a second.
1804
01:20:57.029 --> 01:20:57.970
We're doing this a lot.
1805
01:20:58.609 --> 01:21:00.659
Maybe we got a brave book and do more clean finishes.
1806
01:21:00.720 --> 01:21:03.300
And I think that is that, that that's that middle ground.
1807
01:21:03.380 --> 01:21:09.020
That's, introducing social security and Medicare for all into a
1808
01:21:09.060 --> 01:21:11.689
system that also says you got to pay for things
1809
01:21:11.739 --> 01:21:13.210
and work hard to earn money so you can have
1810
01:21:13.270 --> 01:21:16.109
nicer things. And we can have both and not, you know,
1811
01:21:16.689 --> 01:21:18.949
and so that's the argument I'm making for WBS. Let's,
1812
01:21:19.130 --> 01:21:22.770
let's just, and you are too, Eric, like more. And
1813
01:21:22.800 --> 01:21:24.399
the thing is, is part, and I'll add this and
1814
01:21:24.420 --> 01:21:27.479
we'll go to Crofton. If you do a clean, if
1815
01:21:27.520 --> 01:21:31.460
Sammy beats Kevin Owens clean, Tonight, it doesn't have to
1816
01:21:31.500 --> 01:21:34.729
be the end of the Kevin Owens-Sammy story. Sammy can gloat,
1817
01:21:35.329 --> 01:21:38.479
and then Kevin Owens can win another match, or.
1818
01:21:40.119 --> 01:21:42.840
And they do this sometimes in their booking where Johnny
1819
01:21:42.859 --> 01:21:44.579
Gargano comes to the ring and he wants to help
1820
01:21:44.659 --> 01:21:47.359
Sammy and the ref is saying is get rid of him.
1821
01:21:47.699 --> 01:21:50.390
And then Candice LeRae is at ringside and distracting KO
1822
01:21:50.670 --> 01:21:52.390
and KO turns around and says, just, you know, get
1823
01:21:52.470 --> 01:21:54.989
out of here. And, and that's, that just gives Sammy
1824
01:21:55.010 --> 01:21:57.890
enough time to recover where there's some ambiguity when then
1825
01:21:57.970 --> 01:22:01.130
Kevin hits a cannonball and goes for the pin and
1826
01:22:01.149 --> 01:22:03.020
the announcers just go, you know what, if KO had
1827
01:22:03.039 --> 01:22:05.800
been able to hit that move sooner and Candice LeRae wasn't,
1828
01:22:05.979 --> 01:22:09.520
wasn't the gnat getting in his face and, maybe he
1829
01:22:10.100 --> 01:22:12.460
would have scored a three count. Like you can introduce
1830
01:22:13.319 --> 01:22:17.060
doubt and that's better than a title shot, a title
1831
01:22:17.079 --> 01:22:19.859
belt to the head. That's better than it immediately leading
1832
01:22:19.880 --> 01:22:22.229
to the finish is just have something earlier in the match.
1833
01:22:22.750 --> 01:22:25.710
I don't love overdoing that either, but there's a, there are,
1834
01:22:25.770 --> 01:22:28.170
there's a range of ways that you can lean a
1835
01:22:28.189 --> 01:22:31.149
little bit more on Kevin Owens lost clean, but three
1836
01:22:31.210 --> 01:22:36.659
minutes earlier, what if, and, That's better than this. So
1837
01:22:37.239 --> 01:22:42.140
maybe there's room for incremental change. you know, and you
1838
01:22:42.180 --> 01:22:43.939
just draw attention to it. You do a less obvious,
1839
01:22:44.539 --> 01:22:46.779
this directly to the finish. And then the announcers talk
1840
01:22:46.800 --> 01:22:49.539
about it. And Kevin Owens says, you know what, Sammy, let's,
1841
01:22:49.680 --> 01:22:51.840
let's have a cage match. I don't worry about Candice
1842
01:22:51.859 --> 01:22:54.079
LeRae and Johnny Gargano, and I can focus on you
1843
01:22:54.100 --> 01:22:56.750
a hundred percent and let's see what happens. So there's ways,
1844
01:22:56.829 --> 01:22:59.350
there are other ways to tell the story than how
1845
01:22:59.409 --> 01:23:00.869
the creative team sits down and goes, how do we
1846
01:23:00.890 --> 01:23:02.369
fill the script this week to get through this week?
1847
01:23:02.390 --> 01:23:03.750
So we can get our pay and go, go home
1848
01:23:03.810 --> 01:23:06.189
to our families. And it does just feel like a
1849
01:23:06.210 --> 01:23:07.630
lot of what they're doing is this is what we do.
1850
01:23:07.649 --> 01:23:10.060
We're making money. No matter what, let's just write the story.
1851
01:23:11.050 --> 01:23:12.229
Then we don't have to worry about asking wrestlers to
1852
01:23:12.250 --> 01:23:14.090
do clean jobs. We don't have to reinvent things. We
1853
01:23:14.109 --> 01:23:15.850
don't have to think that hard. And I do think
1854
01:23:15.890 --> 01:23:17.329
a lot of it is just a resignation to just
1855
01:23:17.350 --> 01:23:20.180
get through the week. And, you know, we're here to go.
1856
01:23:20.189 --> 01:23:21.899
I think it comes with negative consequences.
1857
01:23:22.680 --> 01:23:24.850
It would take them a long time to kind of
1858
01:23:24.899 --> 01:23:28.270
change the perceptions on the way they do things. But
1859
01:23:28.670 --> 01:23:32.130
imagine they did what you just said with Gargano and LeRae.
1860
01:23:32.170 --> 01:23:34.369
They can't enter because it's a cage match. And then
1861
01:23:34.390 --> 01:23:36.939
the cage match comes and goes. Gargano and LeRae were
1862
01:23:37.000 --> 01:23:39.420
unable to interfere. Next time there's a cage match, you
1863
01:23:39.439 --> 01:23:41.300
start doing that, people are going to realize people don't
1864
01:23:41.340 --> 01:23:43.840
interfere during cage matches anymore. And you have to find
1865
01:23:44.100 --> 01:23:46.659
other clever ways for things to happen. Tonight, they could
1866
01:23:46.680 --> 01:23:49.829
have easily had They could have had Owens just go
1867
01:23:49.869 --> 01:23:52.369
up for a Swanton bomb and slip. And he slips
1868
01:23:52.430 --> 01:23:54.569
a little bit. Then he misses the Swanton bomb. Sammy
1869
01:23:54.590 --> 01:23:58.029
hits him with the Luva kick. Sammy wins. Owens slipped.
1870
01:23:58.289 --> 01:24:01.520
Human beings slip sometimes. It happens. I just feel like
1871
01:24:01.529 --> 01:24:04.659
they haven't even... Pro wrestling hasn't scratched the surface of
1872
01:24:04.699 --> 01:24:07.100
all the different things they could do to end matches.
1873
01:24:07.760 --> 01:24:10.760
And I really wish they would. But this would be ours.
1874
01:24:11.279 --> 01:24:14.180
I don't want to start getting into where I think
1875
01:24:14.619 --> 01:24:17.119
people should win with more than just their finishers and roll-ups.
1876
01:24:17.930 --> 01:24:19.729
Have them win with their other moves if they hit
1877
01:24:19.750 --> 01:24:22.310
them at a perfect time. And then next time, every
1878
01:24:22.350 --> 01:24:23.970
single time they hit that move, somebody might think the
1879
01:24:23.989 --> 01:24:26.609
near fall might actually be a pinfall. There's just so
1880
01:24:26.649 --> 01:24:29.109
much to do where you wouldn't lose people 10 minutes
1881
01:24:29.149 --> 01:24:33.220
into a match too. There's just so much. But maybe
1882
01:24:33.640 --> 01:24:36.020
what we need is, what you're saying, Wade, is do
1883
01:24:36.060 --> 01:24:38.939
we want Paul Levesque or Tony Khan or somebody to
1884
01:24:39.579 --> 01:24:43.319
stand afterwards, give an interview and say, oh yeah, you
1885
01:24:43.359 --> 01:24:45.340
guys don't like the way we end matches, but boy,
1886
01:24:45.380 --> 01:24:47.119
if you heard all the 15 different ways we were
1887
01:24:47.140 --> 01:24:49.539
talking about ending that match, you'd be happy you got
1888
01:24:49.560 --> 01:24:50.220
what we gave you.
1889
01:24:51.500 --> 01:24:52.279
Is that what we need?
1890
01:24:53.119 --> 01:24:54.140
Yeah, exactly.
1891
01:24:55.039 --> 01:24:58.140
Going back to the quote, if you only knew the alternatives,
1892
01:24:58.159 --> 01:25:03.039
you wouldn't be. But it just, look, this is a
1893
01:25:03.060 --> 01:25:05.010
phrase I use because I try to build in sympathy
1894
01:25:05.100 --> 01:25:08.890
for the challenge of all the TV to fill and
1895
01:25:09.090 --> 01:25:13.470
all that. It's just look for any opportunity. any opportunity
1896
01:25:13.489 --> 01:25:16.909
you have to do a cleaner or clean finish when
1897
01:25:16.949 --> 01:25:20.829
the sort of default path of least resistance is just
1898
01:25:20.869 --> 01:25:24.409
to book another distraction interference finish. And I would argue,
1899
01:25:24.890 --> 01:25:29.579
I would also argue or, or might also, yeah, just
1900
01:25:29.800 --> 01:25:32.939
blended the two. Um, I would also argue not all
1901
01:25:32.979 --> 01:25:39.279
grew that CM Punk should not be interfering in an
1902
01:25:39.520 --> 01:25:44.500
ongoing title match. in a way that he was critical
1903
01:25:44.640 --> 01:25:47.199
of when he benefited from it when Randy Orton did it.
1904
01:25:47.699 --> 01:25:50.539
This comes down to wrestlers should have a constitution that
1905
01:25:50.600 --> 01:25:52.920
guides their actions and went from segment to segment, week
1906
01:25:52.939 --> 01:25:55.619
to week, month to month. Wrestlers act in a way
1907
01:25:55.689 --> 01:25:57.729
that suits the convenience of the path of least resistance
1908
01:25:57.770 --> 01:26:01.989
for the booking. That undercuts everything. And then you are
1909
01:26:02.010 --> 01:26:05.710
just watching for moments and communal chants and surprises instead
1910
01:26:05.770 --> 01:26:10.420
of believing there's some, there's like any good novel, any
1911
01:26:10.439 --> 01:26:12.819
good TV show, any good play. There's going to be
1912
01:26:12.859 --> 01:26:15.260
a consistency to how people act until there's something that
1913
01:26:15.319 --> 01:26:18.039
changes them. And that's a big deal. But the announcing
1914
01:26:18.260 --> 01:26:20.819
isn't sophisticated enough or authorized to even talk about it,
1915
01:26:20.850 --> 01:26:22.829
even if it's crossing their minds. Probably Corey Graves thinks
1916
01:26:22.869 --> 01:26:26.170
about it. I doubt Michael Cole does, which is, man,
1917
01:26:26.210 --> 01:26:27.670
if I could speak freely, I'd be going, what's the
1918
01:26:27.710 --> 01:26:29.890
umpung doing? He was the victim of this at SummerSlam
1919
01:26:29.909 --> 01:26:32.409
and now he's instigating it. Can he get his revenge
1920
01:26:32.449 --> 01:26:37.329
in some other circumstance? And it's not like, Kevin Owens
1921
01:26:37.369 --> 01:26:39.449
called Gargano to the ring. Like there's not even a direct,
1922
01:26:39.869 --> 01:26:42.449
you know, if, if, if this person does this, then
1923
01:26:42.470 --> 01:26:44.949
I'm going to get equal revenge on them, uh, with, uh,
1924
01:26:45.029 --> 01:26:46.979
you know, let fire, let, you know, fight fire with
1925
01:26:47.020 --> 01:26:49.350
fire or one, one good, one bad D deserves another.
1926
01:26:50.109 --> 01:26:52.300
He had Kevin Owens and Sammy's one who called Gargano
1927
01:26:52.319 --> 01:26:52.699
to the ring.
1928
01:26:52.739 --> 01:26:54.100
So it just, yeah.
1929
01:26:55.560 --> 01:26:59.100
Um, no, I guess if, if this is the beginning
1930
01:26:59.159 --> 01:27:01.460
of a punk gradual heel turn, that's one thing, but
1931
01:27:01.479 --> 01:27:03.260
I don't think we sense that this, this is what
1932
01:27:03.300 --> 01:27:03.659
that is.
1933
01:27:04.020 --> 01:27:04.180
Yeah.
1934
01:27:05.140 --> 01:27:07.760
And, and like, Just even kind of going back to
1935
01:27:07.779 --> 01:27:10.840
the capitalism, it's the best of all the options.
1936
01:27:12.000 --> 01:27:13.649
Sometimes there's just a blend.
1937
01:27:14.659 --> 01:27:18.510
Doctors who take Medicare and Medicaid payments are at a
1938
01:27:18.770 --> 01:27:22.390
privately owned hospital, but it's publicly funded and subsidized. If
1939
01:27:22.789 --> 01:27:25.130
Social Security, you're paying into it and the Social Security
1940
01:27:25.149 --> 01:27:27.649
you get back is based in great part on what
1941
01:27:27.689 --> 01:27:32.449
your earnings were. So there's sort of a collective, you
1942
01:27:32.510 --> 01:27:35.350
get a certain amount, but only until you die. So
1943
01:27:35.390 --> 01:27:36.829
it's sort of a big pot of money and we
1944
01:27:36.850 --> 01:27:39.069
kind of factor it. In other words, it's a blend.
1945
01:27:39.489 --> 01:27:43.750
It's not you earned it. It's we took something out.
1946
01:27:43.789 --> 01:27:45.409
We're going to give it back to you, but you
1947
01:27:45.430 --> 01:27:46.689
only get as long as you're alive and you can
1948
01:27:46.710 --> 01:27:48.869
choose when you do it. It's a blend. It's not
1949
01:27:48.989 --> 01:27:52.250
pure socialism, not pure capitalism. So taking the political discussion
1950
01:27:52.590 --> 01:27:54.550
and applying it to wrestling, it doesn't have to be
1951
01:27:55.409 --> 01:27:59.489
interference or totally clean. Like the extreme of what we're
1952
01:27:59.529 --> 01:28:01.869
seeing over and over again with, oh, it's a surprise
1953
01:28:02.069 --> 01:28:04.510
or it's a moment or it's interference. And the finish
1954
01:28:04.550 --> 01:28:07.689
is 100% because of what happened. That didn't have to
1955
01:28:07.710 --> 01:28:10.449
do with the two wrestlers. Or it's pure and there's
1956
01:28:10.489 --> 01:28:13.409
no interference and no controversy. There's this whole middle ground.
1957
01:28:13.550 --> 01:28:16.930
And in that middle ground are the sweet spots. But
1958
01:28:17.350 --> 01:28:19.710
look for any opportunity you can to make it less frequent.
1959
01:28:21.130 --> 01:28:22.670
That'd be the line I'd just lean on. Look for
1960
01:28:22.869 --> 01:28:24.479
any opportunity to make it less frequent, even if you
1961
01:28:24.489 --> 01:28:26.869
can justify it in the moment. All right, we'll bring
1962
01:28:27.149 --> 01:28:28.449
Crofton into the conversation now.
1963
01:28:28.770 --> 01:28:29.550
Crofton, welcome.
1964
01:28:29.970 --> 01:28:31.050
Good to see you. Good to talk to you. What's
1965
01:28:31.069 --> 01:28:31.369
on your mind?
1966
01:28:33.789 --> 01:28:37.970
Hey, guys. Nice to see you both. Wade, I follow
1967
01:28:38.010 --> 01:28:42.409
the capitalism socialist. stuff much better than the Vikings references.
1968
01:28:43.029 --> 01:28:48.569
So for the future, that's helpful for me. But yeah, no,
1969
01:28:48.609 --> 01:28:52.699
it's great. Great hearing the conversation so far. Obviously, I'd
1970
01:28:53.699 --> 01:28:57.720
like to talk about Sami Zayn, even though you guys
1971
01:28:57.760 --> 01:28:59.899
have spoken about him a lot and how he's going
1972
01:28:59.920 --> 01:29:03.430
to be breaking his record of nine days as champion.
1973
01:29:03.449 --> 01:29:08.289
Wait, wait. And let's see. No, you're right. If this
1974
01:29:08.329 --> 01:29:11.069
was Monday, NXT could be the next day. But so
1975
01:29:11.630 --> 01:29:13.090
what if he loses at a house show tomorrow?
1976
01:29:13.470 --> 01:29:16.760
It's possible. But let's face it. Unlikely. You know, he's
1977
01:29:16.819 --> 01:29:22.060
probably going to break the records. No big deal. You're right.
1978
01:29:22.079 --> 01:29:23.520
The 24-7 title. Sorry, Crofton.
1979
01:29:24.319 --> 01:29:24.779
Yeah.
1980
01:29:25.079 --> 01:29:26.770
And you know, you know, you know how you'll find
1981
01:29:26.810 --> 01:29:27.770
out if Sammy loses the title.
1982
01:29:28.630 --> 01:29:30.689
Oh, don't say Club WWE.
1983
01:29:31.569 --> 01:29:35.560
You know what?
1984
01:29:36.159 --> 01:29:38.340
I know only because you don't want me to bring
1985
01:29:38.380 --> 01:29:41.739
it up. They should bring back the 24-7 title just
1986
01:29:41.779 --> 01:29:44.159
for Club WWE so that you can have a live
1987
01:29:44.279 --> 01:29:47.039
feed of whoever holds that title and you can watch
1988
01:29:47.100 --> 01:29:51.789
a live feed 24-7 and seeing what they're doing and
1989
01:29:51.829 --> 01:29:54.489
just in waiting for the live moment that someone schoolboys
1990
01:29:54.529 --> 01:29:56.470
them for the win backs while they're at Aldi.
1991
01:29:57.479 --> 01:30:00.609
Oh, if you're in Club WE, you can compete for
1992
01:30:00.649 --> 01:30:02.789
the championship. You just have to be in the right place.
1993
01:30:03.430 --> 01:30:05.569
That should be the bonus, yeah. Then it's not just
1994
01:30:05.590 --> 01:30:07.289
getting 10% off getting your name on the mat. You
1995
01:30:07.310 --> 01:30:08.409
can get a plate on the 24-7 belt.
1996
01:30:08.529 --> 01:30:10.470
Sweet. Your name on a plate.
1997
01:30:11.029 --> 01:30:14.560
They should put everything I don't like on Club WWE.
1998
01:30:15.399 --> 01:30:16.439
I would really like.
1999
01:30:16.260 --> 01:30:18.479
Them to do that. That would be helpful.
2000
01:30:19.619 --> 01:30:22.180
Sorry, Crofton, I'm throwing up here.
2001
01:30:22.199 --> 01:30:25.109
If WWE marketed that, they said, you know, Remember when
2002
01:30:25.130 --> 01:30:27.710
Wade said when Triple H took over booking, it was
2003
01:30:27.770 --> 01:30:30.729
the absence of irritants, like the subtraction of irritants is
2004
01:30:30.770 --> 01:30:35.409
the signature. It wasn't that Triple H changed a lot philosophically.
2005
01:30:35.430 --> 01:30:37.510
He just erased a few things that were bugging us,
2006
01:30:37.850 --> 01:30:38.869
and it made the product better.
2007
01:30:39.630 --> 01:30:40.229
Club WB.
2008
01:30:40.729 --> 01:30:41.649
Club irritants?
2009
01:30:42.050 --> 01:30:45.760
If you miss the irritants, that's where they are, and
2010
01:30:45.800 --> 01:30:46.720
you can pay to see them.
2011
01:30:47.239 --> 01:30:49.399
Can we throw Tiffany Stratton in there and just leave
2012
01:30:49.439 --> 01:30:50.180
her in there?
2013
01:30:52.390 --> 01:30:53.090
I will say that.
2014
01:30:53.710 --> 01:30:56.239
I would subscribe just to see Tiffany like at acting class.
2015
01:30:56.939 --> 01:30:59.819
That would make the John Cena promos make much more
2016
01:30:59.859 --> 01:31:04.479
sense to me. Yeah, if it was all about my irritants.
2017
01:31:05.800 --> 01:31:08.859
I thought it was an amazing week of WWE wrestling
2018
01:31:08.920 --> 01:31:16.149
for two completely different shows, bookending the week. Raw was obviously,
2019
01:31:16.449 --> 01:31:18.970
you guys spoke a lot about it earlier this week,
2020
01:31:18.989 --> 01:31:24.630
but the Mexico City vibe and the main event, it
2021
01:31:24.670 --> 01:31:27.729
was just everything about it was amazing. was really, as
2022
01:31:27.789 --> 01:31:31.010
Wade says, peak fan experience, like really, really great. I
2023
01:31:31.069 --> 01:31:33.140
enjoyed it a lot. But then I enjoyed this show
2024
01:31:33.149 --> 01:31:36.300
a lot, too, but for kind of completely different reasons.
2025
01:31:36.380 --> 01:31:42.539
Like this was all about character and your conversation on interference.
2026
01:31:42.960 --> 01:31:45.380
And I sort of like I agree with Jason on
2027
01:31:45.439 --> 01:31:47.859
many sort of many of his points. I think they've
2028
01:31:47.880 --> 01:31:52.310
gone too far. obviously on interference, especially even on Raw,
2029
01:31:53.010 --> 01:31:56.210
their main events, because I would argue the SmackDown main
2030
01:31:56.250 --> 01:31:58.800
events have been in service of this larger Sami Zayn
2031
01:31:58.880 --> 01:32:02.180
storyline that's been all about... We all talk about how
2032
01:32:02.220 --> 01:32:04.619
many contenders there are and how great that is, and
2033
01:32:04.659 --> 01:32:09.050
that's because... of all this sort of interference in each
2034
01:32:09.090 --> 01:32:12.170
other's match, everybody getting involved and that's got to go
2035
01:32:12.229 --> 01:32:16.680
somewhere and culminate in something. So I, I, I have
2036
01:32:16.689 --> 01:32:19.180
been enjoying, I have been enjoying the show, like the
2037
01:32:19.239 --> 01:32:22.699
TV show, despite the endings being what they are to
2038
01:32:22.760 --> 01:32:25.159
each of these matches. And I do also have sympathy
2039
01:32:25.199 --> 01:32:28.529
because I recognize that WWE is addicted to the to
2040
01:32:28.569 --> 01:32:31.869
be continued ending of Raw and SmackDown. Like they want
2041
01:32:32.560 --> 01:32:33.180
a match.
2042
01:32:33.659 --> 01:32:35.659
There's a lot you can do after a match often too, though,
2043
01:32:36.000 --> 01:32:37.239
to be, to be continued.
2044
01:32:37.779 --> 01:32:40.220
But often it involves like, like if you have a
2045
01:32:40.260 --> 01:32:42.460
character that hasn't been there, like CM Punk wasn't there
2046
01:32:42.500 --> 01:32:45.479
all show. And then he appears and wow, like he
2047
01:32:45.500 --> 01:32:48.239
made an entrance or those, the, you know, Royce Keys
2048
01:32:48.279 --> 01:32:51.729
faction just arrives at the end, lays everyone out. They're
2049
01:32:51.750 --> 01:32:54.789
ruining the main event, but, but they, then it's like
2050
01:32:54.829 --> 01:32:56.829
to be continued. So if you're addicted to, to be,
2051
01:32:57.010 --> 01:33:00.989
to be continueds, then it's very, very tempting to have
2052
01:33:01.590 --> 01:33:05.529
third parties come in and wreck your main event. But
2053
01:33:05.649 --> 01:33:09.720
for SmackDown, I haven't minded it because I've been enjoying
2054
01:33:09.760 --> 01:33:12.579
the show so much with all these characters and, of course,
2055
01:33:12.899 --> 01:33:16.500
Sami's performance. And I thought tonight in particular what they
2056
01:33:16.539 --> 01:33:19.939
did was they earned the interference a little bit. Like
2057
01:33:20.199 --> 01:33:24.069
Sami's gaslighting of Johnny Gargano, which you guys mentioned earlier, Like,
2058
01:33:24.180 --> 01:33:27.779
that was telegraphing that Johnny was going to come out. Like,
2059
01:33:27.819 --> 01:33:29.569
if Johnny had not come out, I would have been like,
2060
01:33:30.130 --> 01:33:32.470
what's going on here? Like, I fully expected him to
2061
01:33:32.510 --> 01:33:35.149
come out. obviously the level way do you make good
2062
01:33:35.189 --> 01:33:37.649
points about what level of involvement he could have had
2063
01:33:37.729 --> 01:33:41.390
maybe less or being kicked out earlier punk i bit
2064
01:33:41.590 --> 01:33:43.590
on the idea he wasn't there when they said he
2065
01:33:43.689 --> 01:33:46.869
wasn't there i believed it you should know better yeah
2066
01:33:46.949 --> 01:33:49.069
i know i should i should have half the time.
2067
01:33:48.949 --> 01:33:50.770
It's right but it's like about half the time when
2068
01:33:50.810 --> 01:33:53.140
someone says he couldn't be here this week he's he's
2069
01:33:53.180 --> 01:33:53.600
showing up.
2070
01:33:54.079 --> 01:33:56.739
No offense to corpus christi but uh but like a
2071
01:33:56.800 --> 01:34:02.539
big star not showing that After a big Mexican-Latin American tour,
2072
01:34:02.970 --> 01:34:04.670
I believed it. Here's the code.
2073
01:34:04.710 --> 01:34:05.930
If Roman's not there, he's not there.
2074
01:34:09.119 --> 01:34:10.260
Roman was on Raw, so.
2075
01:34:12.130 --> 01:34:14.229
Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti when he co-hosts with
2076
01:34:14.270 --> 01:34:16.010
me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, now you
2077
01:34:16.029 --> 01:34:18.310
can listen to him every week on the Nicky's Club,
2078
01:34:18.369 --> 01:34:21.409
a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more.
2079
01:34:21.529 --> 01:34:23.970
Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with
2080
01:34:23.989 --> 01:34:26.069
the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's
2081
01:34:26.130 --> 01:34:29.029
comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE.
2082
01:34:29.130 --> 01:34:32.029
From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered.
2083
01:34:32.189 --> 01:34:34.390
The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest
2084
01:34:34.409 --> 01:34:34.989
club in town.
2085
01:34:35.210 --> 01:34:37.020
Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling
2086
01:34:37.029 --> 01:34:41.380
life every week, so... Why not let him? GoVIP. PWTorch.com
2087
01:34:41.659 --> 01:34:44.579
slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible
2088
01:34:44.600 --> 01:34:47.899
with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other
2089
01:34:48.039 --> 01:34:50.050
iOS or Android app out there. You can also stream
2090
01:34:50.069 --> 01:34:53.090
directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club, waiting
2091
01:34:53.109 --> 01:34:55.670
for you every week at PWTorch VIP.
2092
01:34:57.310 --> 01:34:57.850
But, uh.
2093
01:34:58.920 --> 01:35:02.439
Yes, so all this to say, I really, really did
2094
01:35:02.779 --> 01:35:06.130
enjoy the show leading up to the interference, but I
2095
01:35:06.210 --> 01:35:09.210
thought that Sammy in the opening segment had a lot
2096
01:35:09.250 --> 01:35:13.199
that he didn't, as Derek in the chat mentioned, rightly so,
2097
01:35:13.399 --> 01:35:16.439
he did not have um plates on his belt a
2098
01:35:16.600 --> 01:35:19.619
week after becoming champion like it was cm punk plates
2099
01:35:20.100 --> 01:35:23.159
on his belt he did not have pyro come on
2100
01:35:23.180 --> 01:35:26.289
now this new champion you gotta they come out give
2101
01:35:26.329 --> 01:35:28.750
them some pyro and then nick really gave him that
2102
01:35:28.810 --> 01:35:32.689
passive aggressive in you know introduction so i thought that
2103
01:35:32.789 --> 01:35:35.869
considering all the the complaints that he could have had
2104
01:35:35.890 --> 01:35:40.210
uh he got off pretty, you know, all this got
2105
01:35:40.229 --> 01:35:43.800
off pretty lightly, but all told, like just closing the books,
2106
01:35:44.140 --> 01:35:46.880
I really enjoyed the Sammy Zane story this week. And
2107
01:35:47.000 --> 01:35:49.949
I think that he's, he's killing it. And I, I, I,
2108
01:35:50.529 --> 01:35:52.810
my only concern, and I guess my question for you
2109
01:35:52.850 --> 01:35:58.300
guys is, is, is it now destined that if he
2110
01:35:58.380 --> 01:36:00.159
is to be champ, it's going to be like by
2111
01:36:00.199 --> 01:36:02.920
hook and by crook. Therefore all his matches are interference.
2112
01:36:03.300 --> 01:36:05.619
P you know, is he going to have a stable
2113
01:36:05.680 --> 01:36:08.930
with Gargano? Is he going to be, it's, are people
2114
01:36:08.949 --> 01:36:12.050
going to get involved at a pay-per-view events? Like it
2115
01:36:12.109 --> 01:36:16.000
seems like interference is inherently built into the story. And, uh,
2116
01:36:16.289 --> 01:36:19.189
like into his character, because Wade, to your point about,
2117
01:36:19.310 --> 01:36:21.430
is he a threat in the ring? Is he believable
2118
01:36:21.789 --> 01:36:25.380
or is he a comedy character? I see him as,
2119
01:36:25.409 --> 01:36:28.479
you know, he straddles that line, but like against the
2120
01:36:28.520 --> 01:36:34.359
big stars, against a Gunther, against a CM Punk, you
2121
01:36:34.420 --> 01:36:36.220
expect that he's going to do something or get some
2122
01:36:36.239 --> 01:36:38.140
sort of assistance to be able to hold onto the belt.
2123
01:36:38.560 --> 01:36:42.239
As you're saying that, I'm like imagining a situation where
2124
01:36:42.279 --> 01:36:44.460
like Sammy's defending against CM Punk.
2125
01:36:44.239 --> 01:36:45.859
Or Gunther or Finn Balor or Randy Orton.
2126
01:36:46.739 --> 01:36:48.479
And he hits a lube kick and he gets a
2127
01:36:48.479 --> 01:36:51.279
three count at like the 11 minute mark when everyone's
2128
01:36:51.300 --> 01:36:53.659
like matches in any X hasn't been interference. We haven't
2129
01:36:53.680 --> 01:36:55.939
had a bunch of kickouts and he wins and the
2130
01:36:55.960 --> 01:36:59.689
ref counts three. And Sammy just looks up like, what?
2131
01:37:01.329 --> 01:37:03.609
I wasn't clean. Like he just has his body language
2132
01:37:03.630 --> 01:37:05.069
says I did it.
2133
01:37:05.449 --> 01:37:07.590
And then like Johnny Gargano, like whatever, you know, standing
2134
01:37:07.609 --> 01:37:08.590
on the stage, ready to run in and say.
2135
01:37:08.609 --> 01:37:10.369
It was like, go, no, I don't need you. I want,
2136
01:37:10.409 --> 01:37:12.649
I'm the best. I, you know, like you could in
2137
01:37:12.800 --> 01:37:16.829
some way play off of that. Um, I don't know.
2138
01:37:17.130 --> 01:37:18.750
Maybe, maybe you don't want to, maybe that's too, it's
2139
01:37:18.770 --> 01:37:21.569
not meta. It's just because it fits a storyline. Sammy
2140
01:37:21.590 --> 01:37:23.770
doesn't think he can win. He can hang in there
2141
01:37:23.810 --> 01:37:27.000
long enough. And then, but to actually have him win,
2142
01:37:27.199 --> 01:37:28.609
but you don't want the fans to pop for it,
2143
01:37:28.779 --> 01:37:31.680
but like have Sammy be so insufferable like that. He
2144
01:37:31.699 --> 01:37:35.180
could then start saying, I won. I won clean. I'm
2145
01:37:35.199 --> 01:37:39.220
better than you just start. obnoxiously like laying in so thick.
2146
01:37:39.279 --> 01:37:41.520
And so people just can't wait for him to never
2147
01:37:41.560 --> 01:37:43.760
win clean again. I mean, you could almost play off
2148
01:37:43.800 --> 01:37:46.619
of that and sort of a, you know, self-referential like
2149
01:37:46.699 --> 01:37:49.420
screen movie or cliche way, but do it in a
2150
01:37:49.439 --> 01:37:52.229
way that feels natural for Sammy. That's more of a
2151
01:37:52.270 --> 01:37:54.630
sidebar than like, I'm not trying to fantasy book what
2152
01:37:54.649 --> 01:37:56.369
I think they should do. It was just like the
2153
01:37:56.430 --> 01:37:59.029
table is set for him to actually act shocked if
2154
01:37:59.069 --> 01:38:01.550
he wins clean and you actually play off of fan
2155
01:38:01.590 --> 01:38:03.869
expectation that of course it's not going to happen. And
2156
01:38:03.890 --> 01:38:06.670
then the benefit is, fans start paying attention to near
2157
01:38:06.710 --> 01:38:08.909
falls at the 7 9 11 and 12 minute mark
2158
01:38:08.930 --> 01:38:11.729
before anyone comes to ringside because you're like i remember
2159
01:38:11.750 --> 01:38:13.800
that one time sammy won't beat warden i didn't expect
2160
01:38:13.810 --> 01:38:16.840
that and you gain you have you gain so much
2161
01:38:17.020 --> 01:38:19.619
investment in future matches because of it it'd be perfect
2162
01:38:19.640 --> 01:38:20.979
for sammy to be the guy but you'd want him
2163
01:38:21.000 --> 01:38:23.390
to do a double take and go really i've just
2164
01:38:23.430 --> 01:38:25.590
been randy and ready can handle that.
2165
01:38:26.170 --> 01:38:28.789
That would also be so fun because it would be
2166
01:38:28.829 --> 01:38:31.199
the exact opposite of the way roman acts with his
2167
01:38:31.260 --> 01:38:33.640
title because he acts like no one can beat him
2168
01:38:33.659 --> 01:38:35.779
and he's such a jerk about it and if it's
2169
01:38:35.859 --> 01:38:38.939
anything else it would be ridiculous so it'd be the
2170
01:38:39.020 --> 01:38:40.989
exact opposite reactions it'd be perfect.
2171
01:38:41.170 --> 01:38:42.630
And the key with sammy would be you don't want
2172
01:38:42.649 --> 01:38:45.810
him overtly to acknowledge he'd never won clean before but
2173
01:38:45.850 --> 01:38:48.010
you would look at him and realize he was shocked
2174
01:38:48.029 --> 01:38:52.180
he won clean And then leaned into it. He wouldn't
2175
01:38:52.279 --> 01:38:55.289
literally say, I won clean. But you would have that
2176
01:38:55.310 --> 01:38:56.949
moment where you're like, Sammy can't believe he just... You
2177
01:38:56.970 --> 01:38:58.170
could have the announcers underline that.
2178
01:38:58.590 --> 01:39:00.649
Wait, are you getting my mind spinning? You just said
2179
01:39:00.689 --> 01:39:03.770
the word, and now I'm thinking, imagine if Sammy wins
2180
01:39:03.810 --> 01:39:06.630
like this a couple of times, starts getting a big head,
2181
01:39:07.029 --> 01:39:09.149
then starts telling the fans to acknowledge him.
2182
01:39:10.899 --> 01:39:12.140
And then Survivor Series comes up.
2183
01:39:12.539 --> 01:39:15.439
And then imagine what you're building up to. It would
2184
01:39:15.460 --> 01:39:16.039
be tremendous.
2185
01:39:17.159 --> 01:39:20.239
I am looking forward to Roman and Sammy, if Sammy
2186
01:39:20.760 --> 01:39:23.800
or Roman still have the belts come that. I think
2187
01:39:23.840 --> 01:39:27.359
that the interactions in that match, I would love it
2188
01:39:27.460 --> 01:39:31.699
if Sammy beats Roman Reigns. But I don't know how
2189
01:39:31.720 --> 01:39:35.119
that happens, but I'm sure he would let us remember
2190
01:39:35.159 --> 01:39:38.199
it for the rest of our lives. So that would
2191
01:39:38.229 --> 01:39:38.619
be awesome.
2192
01:39:39.149 --> 01:39:43.630
Obafemi, the advocates for Obafemi are not going to let
2193
01:39:43.649 --> 01:39:46.420
Roman Reigns lose before Oba beats him. You know, you
2194
01:39:46.439 --> 01:39:49.039
want Oba beating him to be like this huge, huge deal.
2195
01:39:49.060 --> 01:39:50.779
And if Roman lost to Panto or lost to Sami,
2196
01:39:50.819 --> 01:39:51.859
it takes something away from that.
2197
01:39:52.399 --> 01:39:52.909
I get it.
2198
01:39:52.970 --> 01:39:57.430
When you have Oba on that path, you know, Undertaker
2199
01:39:57.449 --> 01:40:00.449
beats Lesnar at WrestleMania. Or Lesnar beating Undertaker at WrestleMania
2200
01:40:00.510 --> 01:40:02.489
means less if Undertaker had lost, you know, one of
2201
01:40:02.510 --> 01:40:05.489
the previous two years. So, you know, there is something about.
2202
01:40:05.609 --> 01:40:07.250
Whoa, that just happened. It never happens.
2203
01:40:07.270 --> 01:40:08.109
Yeah.
2204
01:40:08.750 --> 01:40:11.310
But can I insert my favorite Sammy moment of the
2205
01:40:11.350 --> 01:40:14.340
night in a Nick Aldis exchange? Sammy said, I am
2206
01:40:14.350 --> 01:40:17.899
the champion and I'm not having that again. You understand.
2207
01:40:18.260 --> 01:40:21.180
And Aldis looks at him and says, understand this. Get
2208
01:40:21.239 --> 01:40:25.310
your hands off me now. Like just having Sammy's words,
2209
01:40:25.329 --> 01:40:28.750
you understand this backfire on him. And Aldis goes, understand
2210
01:40:28.789 --> 01:40:31.770
this hands off. Um, and then for Sammy on the
2211
01:40:31.810 --> 01:40:33.710
stage later to be going, sorry, I didn't mean.
2212
01:40:33.619 --> 01:40:34.939
To touch you. You're right. That was wrong of me.
2213
01:40:35.079 --> 01:40:37.000
I shouldn't have put my hands on you. Like it just,
2214
01:40:37.520 --> 01:40:38.880
Sammy is so delightful.
2215
01:40:38.899 --> 01:40:40.979
And that's why we are, we're not arguing to try
2216
01:40:41.000 --> 01:40:42.739
to take the fun out of the, out of the
2217
01:40:42.760 --> 01:40:45.300
enjoyment of Sammy. When we make our points, no, we're,
2218
01:40:45.319 --> 01:40:48.699
we're trying not to be sycophants to everything WWE mindlessly does.
2219
01:40:48.920 --> 01:40:51.800
We're saying, Sammy, this could be a better storyline if
2220
01:40:51.859 --> 01:40:57.380
they were better. caretakers of the narrative structure. So everything that, that,
2221
01:40:57.659 --> 01:41:00.529
so the climax didn't feel like a cliche that we expected.
2222
01:41:01.350 --> 01:41:04.590
And it's just for moments and controversy, but it actually
2223
01:41:04.930 --> 01:41:06.909
fit into something that made more sense. And especially at
2224
01:41:06.930 --> 01:41:10.399
the CM Punk involvement, I would argue doesn't fit him.
2225
01:41:10.619 --> 01:41:14.020
And the frequency of title matches, ending, in some sort
2226
01:41:14.039 --> 01:41:16.439
of interference, like Randy Orton and SummerSlam and this and
2227
01:41:16.470 --> 01:41:19.170
everything in between, that's what we're arguing against. Then everything
2228
01:41:19.210 --> 01:41:22.399
Sammy's doing actually, I think, makes more of a positive
2229
01:41:22.439 --> 01:41:23.479
difference on fan enjoyment.
2230
01:41:24.199 --> 01:41:26.300
And I will say that Sammy was like all over
2231
01:41:26.340 --> 01:41:32.760
the show, interacting with everyone. Trick, Johnny, you know, like
2232
01:41:32.899 --> 01:41:37.390
even K.O. and Finn are talking about him. Orton coming
2233
01:41:37.439 --> 01:41:40.050
down the ramp. Like there's just so much like it
2234
01:41:40.109 --> 01:41:42.789
feels it feels like everybody wants the belt. He's at
2235
01:41:42.829 --> 01:41:45.189
the center of the universe. He has story and history
2236
01:41:45.229 --> 01:41:47.789
with so many of these characters. And I just think
2237
01:41:47.850 --> 01:41:51.760
that it leaves SmackDown in a really good place. Also,
2238
01:41:52.020 --> 01:41:55.239
and this goes into the next thing I wanted to
2239
01:41:55.279 --> 01:41:57.880
talk about, which was the Cody Rhodes interview. Cody Rhodes,
2240
01:41:57.920 --> 01:42:02.380
who is being kind of like the center of everything
2241
01:42:02.579 --> 01:42:06.289
for the past couple of years on SmackDown, is now
2242
01:42:06.350 --> 01:42:10.109
kind of outside of the title picture. He lost Randy Orton.
2243
01:42:10.989 --> 01:42:13.689
I thought the interview with him and Michael Cole was
2244
01:42:13.869 --> 01:42:18.520
really interesting from a presentation standpoint. First off, when they
2245
01:42:18.579 --> 01:42:21.909
do these, and I think this is my memory of it,
2246
01:42:21.960 --> 01:42:23.689
and I'm not sure if it is for you. Back
2247
01:42:23.699 --> 01:42:27.270
to the Jim Ross interviews. Do people leave the desk,
2248
01:42:27.310 --> 01:42:30.189
or are they normally prerecorded? It feels like they're normally
2249
01:42:30.350 --> 01:42:34.970
prerecorded or a different host entirely. It was weird that
2250
01:42:35.010 --> 01:42:36.909
Graves was at the desk by himself, and then he
2251
01:42:37.369 --> 01:42:39.210
punched a Michael Cole who was, I guess, doing it
2252
01:42:39.329 --> 01:42:41.609
live with Cody Rhodes behind the scenes.
2253
01:42:41.630 --> 01:42:42.529
Yeah.
2254
01:42:43.010 --> 01:42:45.060
And I thought that felt different. And then the whole
2255
01:42:45.180 --> 01:42:48.989
interview felt different in the sense that there were little silences.
2256
01:42:49.010 --> 01:42:56.460
The conversation felt less– fake i guess than some of
2257
01:42:56.539 --> 01:43:00.460
these sit down interviews and lastly i just say about
2258
01:43:00.500 --> 01:43:03.539
it is it wasn't in service of you know it
2259
01:43:03.600 --> 01:43:05.970
wasn't in service of a few like graves did an
2260
01:43:06.090 --> 01:43:08.729
interview with cody rhodes i feel like it was last
2261
01:43:08.789 --> 01:43:11.090
week and then he asked one question and randy orton
2262
01:43:11.109 --> 01:43:13.630
comes in and takes over the interview that's generally how
2263
01:43:13.670 --> 01:43:16.130
these things go or they or they you know there's
2264
01:43:16.729 --> 01:43:19.409
It's building a feud, but this felt like it was
2265
01:43:19.569 --> 01:43:23.470
all about character work for Cody and sort of defining
2266
01:43:23.550 --> 01:43:28.270
who he is, where he's going. It went dangerously close
2267
01:43:28.310 --> 01:43:33.579
to meta, but it didn't cross over, I thought. It
2268
01:43:33.619 --> 01:43:36.640
was still like he was talking... he's still like, it
2269
01:43:36.659 --> 01:43:39.539
was about finding that killer instinct. And yes, Eric's point
2270
01:43:39.579 --> 01:43:42.579
earlier about like that, your lead play by play guy
2271
01:43:42.619 --> 01:43:44.720
saying like, why, why aren't you pulling the trigger is
2272
01:43:44.880 --> 01:43:48.840
obviously a little ridiculous, but, but I thought Cody did
2273
01:43:49.399 --> 01:43:53.479
really well in framing his actions and how his actions
2274
01:43:53.500 --> 01:43:55.739
have worked for him. And why would he change what
2275
01:43:55.779 --> 01:43:58.319
he's doing? He's a winner. And I thought, I thought,
2276
01:43:58.430 --> 01:44:00.189
I don't know. It worked for me anyway, but I
2277
01:44:00.210 --> 01:44:01.350
thought it felt different too.
2278
01:44:02.529 --> 01:44:03.609
His, his, his language.
2279
01:44:03.630 --> 01:44:05.859
It wasn't meta, but, you know, to say people want
2280
01:44:05.880 --> 01:44:08.640
me to go to the dark side. They want me to, um,
2281
01:44:08.979 --> 01:44:12.319
he used the word turn, but then he briefly paused
2282
01:44:12.340 --> 01:44:14.180
and then added words after it. So it wasn't like
2283
01:44:14.720 --> 01:44:19.670
pure meta. Um, but the six, you know, for him, you,
2284
01:44:19.750 --> 01:44:22.609
you laid it out, Crofton. I mean, really well, the, he, he,
2285
01:44:23.609 --> 01:44:33.489
he made the case against a pocket of online, um, criticism,
2286
01:44:34.149 --> 01:44:36.149
conventional wisdom that he thinks is wrong. That's what I'm,
2287
01:44:36.340 --> 01:44:38.720
that's the phrase I'm, Cody believes there's a conventional wisdom
2288
01:44:38.779 --> 01:44:42.100
about his character that is out there in storyline, but
2289
01:44:42.119 --> 01:44:46.060
also outside of storyline. Cause even brought up like it,
2290
01:44:46.100 --> 01:44:48.590
that it gets talked about in WWE, but also I
2291
01:44:48.600 --> 01:44:50.770
can't remember his phrase, you know, out, out in the,
2292
01:44:51.170 --> 01:44:51.989
among fans too.
2293
01:44:52.810 --> 01:44:55.069
And, and, but it's not true. Let me, let me
2294
01:44:55.210 --> 01:44:55.869
make my case.
2295
01:44:56.210 --> 01:45:02.119
Look at, I've achieved so much, you know, talking about,
2296
01:45:02.140 --> 01:45:09.520
you know, leaving WWE and that he accomplished, he left
2297
01:45:10.159 --> 01:45:13.670
and then went out and accomplished a lot, shook things up,
2298
01:45:14.029 --> 01:45:15.050
shook up the industry.
2299
01:45:15.829 --> 01:45:16.130
And, and.
2300
01:45:17.970 --> 01:45:20.050
Then he has achieved more success than he ever dreamed of.
2301
01:45:21.420 --> 01:45:23.600
isn't that enough to say maybe I'm doing things the
2302
01:45:23.930 --> 01:45:27.109
right way? Like, you know, it's like a, he's.
2303
01:45:26.989 --> 01:45:29.609
Like a, a, a NFL coach.
2304
01:45:29.810 --> 01:45:34.250
Who's, you know, like eight and three at, you know,
2305
01:45:34.329 --> 01:45:37.149
on week 11 and people like, Oh, you need to,
2306
01:45:37.609 --> 01:45:40.300
you know, throw the ball less and hand off more.
2307
01:45:40.340 --> 01:45:43.760
You need to, whatever. He's like, we're eight and three,
2308
01:45:44.380 --> 01:45:46.819
you know, like, yeah, we're okay. Just cause we lost.
2309
01:45:48.100 --> 01:45:50.560
Just because we almost lost to a bad team last
2310
01:45:50.600 --> 01:45:53.100
Sunday and two weeks ago, we lost a game.
2311
01:45:53.140 --> 01:45:53.920
We wish we didn't.
2312
01:45:54.199 --> 01:45:56.899
We're still eight and three. And that's what Cody's kind
2313
01:45:56.930 --> 01:45:59.770
of going like. I'm two thirds of the way through
2314
01:45:59.810 --> 01:46:01.529
this season of my WWE career.
2315
01:46:02.729 --> 01:46:03.569
And I'm eight and three.
2316
01:46:04.109 --> 01:46:06.289
And all you guys are dwelling on is I almost
2317
01:46:06.369 --> 01:46:08.569
lost one match or almost lost one game that I
2318
01:46:08.590 --> 01:46:13.270
should have won easily. Like, yeah, I loved him doing that. And,
2319
01:46:13.310 --> 01:46:15.270
you know, little nod to the torch because I didn't
2320
01:46:15.369 --> 01:46:16.029
ask for the torch.
2321
01:46:16.340 --> 01:46:18.640
I took it. Appreciate that because he and I are
2322
01:46:18.659 --> 01:46:20.380
on the same page on how his character should be portrayed.
2323
01:46:20.420 --> 01:46:24.020
I'm pure coincidence. But he articulated exactly that.
2324
01:46:29.180 --> 01:46:32.739
The i don't say exactly and he articulated broadly what
2325
01:46:32.920 --> 01:46:35.020
i argue on the show constantly about his character for
2326
01:46:35.039 --> 01:46:37.020
the last year and a half which is stop talking
2327
01:46:37.039 --> 01:46:40.079
about turning him he's popular he just gets mixed reactions
2328
01:46:40.100 --> 01:46:42.140
not because five years ago malachi black is more popular
2329
01:46:42.180 --> 01:46:44.350
and he and cody and brandy there's a we're putting
2330
01:46:44.359 --> 01:46:47.130
up by the way sunday night our five years ago
2331
01:46:47.489 --> 01:46:50.750
flashback show on aw is our um.
2332
01:46:50.970 --> 01:46:51.550
Actually, two of them.
2333
01:46:51.569 --> 01:46:53.090
I think we're putting up on the Peabody Torch Daily
2334
01:46:53.109 --> 01:46:55.729
cast a five-year-ago flashback plus a Wade Keller post show
2335
01:46:56.050 --> 01:46:58.109
where Cody started getting booed against Malachi five years ago
2336
01:46:58.130 --> 01:47:01.619
this week. And the subject was, do Cody and Brandy
2337
01:47:01.659 --> 01:47:05.239
understand that they're essentially heels in the eyes of AW
2338
01:47:05.279 --> 01:47:07.359
fans because of how they conducted themselves and how they talk?
2339
01:47:07.420 --> 01:47:11.149
And Sean Radican, Peabody Torch writer, put quotes up from
2340
01:47:11.210 --> 01:47:12.890
Cody going, my ideas are terrible.
2341
01:47:13.470 --> 01:47:15.149
I have ideas. They're terrible. I need people to tell
2342
01:47:15.170 --> 01:47:16.590
me the right thing to do. Like he's go to
2343
01:47:16.609 --> 01:47:18.689
PLU torch every day, everybody and read everything we put
2344
01:47:18.729 --> 01:47:19.449
up there. There's good stuff.
2345
01:47:19.489 --> 01:47:21.590
And you're missing out if you're not, but those quotes
2346
01:47:21.630 --> 01:47:24.399
that Sean Radican pulled out of recent interview, we're really
2347
01:47:24.409 --> 01:47:27.100
telling Cody's like kind of, you know, probably looking back
2348
01:47:27.119 --> 01:47:29.279
with a little introspection going, those eight of those, some
2349
01:47:29.300 --> 01:47:31.920
of those AW ideas, ride free rain. It didn't serve
2350
01:47:31.960 --> 01:47:34.239
me well. Like there is a level of learning from
2351
01:47:34.279 --> 01:47:37.319
his past and introspection. And this sit down promo was
2352
01:47:37.380 --> 01:47:39.840
bullet point, bullet point, walking through a lot of the
2353
01:47:39.880 --> 01:47:42.800
stuff that I brought up that I am not When
2354
01:47:42.920 --> 01:47:46.850
begging somebody to make Cody can be his own messenger.
2355
01:47:46.909 --> 01:47:48.529
But I think the announcer should be, too, when it
2356
01:47:48.550 --> 01:47:54.449
comes to him. But you add to that. The hints
2357
01:47:54.529 --> 01:47:58.380
that maybe he's breaking down a little, maybe he's getting
2358
01:47:58.479 --> 01:48:02.939
tired of being asked these questions and he's seeing other people.
2359
01:48:03.100 --> 01:48:04.279
He's OK with it now.
2360
01:48:05.319 --> 01:48:07.279
But after a little while, it's like it's like in
2361
01:48:07.319 --> 01:48:10.949
the NBA, if you're just a foul merchant, you know, like, ah,
2362
01:48:11.149 --> 01:48:12.949
we want to what the Denver Nuggets say we play
2363
01:48:12.970 --> 01:48:15.310
with integrity. You know, well, they played with integrity and
2364
01:48:15.329 --> 01:48:17.750
they lost in the second round. Maybe they want to
2365
01:48:17.770 --> 01:48:21.859
do what the what? you know, players who are going
2366
01:48:21.880 --> 01:48:23.720
to the free throw line a lot more, maybe little
2367
01:48:23.739 --> 01:48:25.399
dirty tactics here and there that you can get away with.
2368
01:48:25.760 --> 01:48:27.260
Maybe they're going to doubt, maybe they're going to think
2369
01:48:27.300 --> 01:48:29.579
maybe we don't want to be losers who play with integrity.
2370
01:48:31.729 --> 01:48:33.569
So that's kind of the story they're telling Cody. And
2371
01:48:33.590 --> 01:48:34.829
we don't know the story arc because he made a
2372
01:48:34.829 --> 01:48:37.449
good case to stay the course, Crofton, but he also,
2373
01:48:37.470 --> 01:48:40.670
you know, acknowledge what people want from him. And it's
2374
01:48:40.710 --> 01:48:43.909
almost like you can see in his head, how much
2375
01:48:43.989 --> 01:48:46.350
longer can I take this stand? How much longer can
2376
01:48:46.390 --> 01:48:50.689
I hold to my principles before I see success? I'm
2377
01:48:50.710 --> 01:48:53.350
not having the same success. And I need to then
2378
01:48:54.109 --> 01:48:59.470
go to that darker place. Because he said, yeah, this
2379
01:48:59.529 --> 01:49:01.810
is where he talked about whether it's in the locker
2380
01:49:01.829 --> 01:49:06.149
room or the arena or online discussions about whether there's
2381
01:49:06.189 --> 01:49:08.970
a darker path for him. do people know something I
2382
01:49:09.069 --> 01:49:12.489
don't know? So he's asked, he's, he's almost like open
2383
01:49:12.529 --> 01:49:17.430
to the notion. Am I too steadfast in my principles?
2384
01:49:18.869 --> 01:49:20.170
And then he made the case against it, but you
2385
01:49:20.189 --> 01:49:22.510
can see that the wheels turning, uh, Eric, I talked
2386
01:49:22.550 --> 01:49:22.770
a lot there.
2387
01:49:22.789 --> 01:49:23.130
What do you think?
2388
01:49:23.609 --> 01:49:28.520
So I thought it was interesting because I said that
2389
01:49:28.529 --> 01:49:31.640
I thought Cole wasn't very good here. Cole started off
2390
01:49:31.680 --> 01:49:36.500
by rightfully pointing out that, Hey, Cody, no one's on
2391
01:49:36.539 --> 01:49:38.899
your side anymore. You're supposed to be QB1, but there's
2392
01:49:38.949 --> 01:49:42.609
no team anymore. Everyone that was with you in WrestleMania
2393
01:49:42.609 --> 01:49:43.250
40 has died.
2394
01:49:43.310 --> 01:49:44.029
I love that photo.
2395
01:49:44.189 --> 01:49:48.970
That was so cool. It's perfect. And then Cody goes
2396
01:49:49.060 --> 01:49:53.109
on to say, you know, I beat Brock Lesnar twice.
2397
01:49:53.170 --> 01:49:55.550
I run two Royal rumbles. I ended a four year
2398
01:49:55.569 --> 01:49:59.010
title reign by not compromising who I was. And I
2399
01:49:59.109 --> 01:50:02.609
thought I had this right. So, but then Cole's continuing
2400
01:50:02.630 --> 01:50:04.890
to like egg him on. I'm like, well, yeah, but
2401
01:50:05.489 --> 01:50:07.130
are you going to pull the trigger next time? And
2402
01:50:07.170 --> 01:50:09.729
it almost felt like he was baiting Cody into changing
2403
01:50:09.770 --> 01:50:10.189
his mind.
2404
01:50:12.319 --> 01:50:12.920
iPhone users.
2405
01:50:12.960 --> 01:50:14.840
If you're listening to us on the native podcast app
2406
01:50:14.939 --> 01:50:18.989
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01:50:19.090 --> 01:50:23.380
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01:50:26.159 --> 01:50:26.739
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01:50:26.760 --> 01:50:29.159
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then activate your three-day free trial. And after that, you
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01:50:58.649 --> 01:51:02.140
of other VIP exclusives. Just search PWTorch in your Apple
2422
01:51:02.159 --> 01:51:09.829
Podcast app. Now, in defense of coal... The idea of
2423
01:51:09.869 --> 01:51:12.220
not pulling the trigger was he had sympathy in the
2424
01:51:12.300 --> 01:51:16.220
course of a match to not kick Randy when Randy
2425
01:51:16.239 --> 01:51:21.289
was on his knees. That isn't turn heel. It's just
2426
01:51:22.090 --> 01:51:25.689
you're in a fight. Go for the win. Do what
2427
01:51:25.729 --> 01:51:30.560
it takes. and then apologize later. You know, Penta and
2428
01:51:30.600 --> 01:51:33.239
Ray Phoenix went through that, you know, Penta did what
2429
01:51:33.260 --> 01:51:34.560
he had to do, but then he helped his brother.
2430
01:51:34.699 --> 01:51:35.380
Oh, sorry, man.
2431
01:51:35.399 --> 01:51:38.079
You know, like, like you can have, you can go
2432
01:51:38.180 --> 01:51:41.880
after somebody hard. And then when the, when the fight
2433
01:51:41.939 --> 01:51:45.659
is over, go, Hey, you know, we're fighting hard. I
2434
01:51:45.699 --> 01:51:47.000
did what I had to do, but it was within
2435
01:51:47.020 --> 01:51:48.439
the rules. So I think what Cole is saying is
2436
01:51:48.760 --> 01:51:50.800
you're having sympathy for somebody who you have respect for
2437
01:51:50.819 --> 01:51:55.189
and a long relationship with, but don't hesitate to, To
2438
01:51:55.250 --> 01:51:58.210
do a legal move just because you're sympathetic to the
2439
01:51:58.250 --> 01:52:00.479
person and want to win a different way. Does that
2440
01:52:00.600 --> 01:52:02.800
make sense, Eric? Because that's the clip that they showed
2441
01:52:02.840 --> 01:52:03.340
before that.
2442
01:52:04.000 --> 01:52:06.260
Right. It makes sense. I didn't read it that way.
2443
01:52:06.279 --> 01:52:09.560
I read it as like comparing to what happened with
2444
01:52:09.640 --> 01:52:13.069
Ray Phoenix and Penta. They didn't have any animosity going
2445
01:52:13.109 --> 01:52:15.560
into the match. And there was nothing during the match
2446
01:52:15.600 --> 01:52:17.560
that would have led to any real animosity other than
2447
01:52:17.579 --> 01:52:19.619
you got to go for it to win. This, I
2448
01:52:19.659 --> 01:52:23.060
thought Cole was more referring to, hey, don't forget that
2449
01:52:23.079 --> 01:52:25.159
this is a guy that punted your face off not
2450
01:52:25.180 --> 01:52:28.659
too long ago and has done everything he could to
2451
01:52:28.760 --> 01:52:31.140
undermine you in the dirty team.
2452
01:52:31.460 --> 01:52:34.060
But is that Cole encouraging Cody to go heel? Or
2453
01:52:34.119 --> 01:52:36.699
is Cole going, when you got Orton on all fours
2454
01:52:36.739 --> 01:52:37.920
and you've got a chance to kick him in the
2455
01:52:37.960 --> 01:52:41.699
head like he would do to you, Do it. Because
2456
01:52:42.939 --> 01:52:45.079
they showed the clip right before the interview where Cody
2457
01:52:45.479 --> 01:52:47.460
winding up and he goes, oh, I better not. And
2458
01:52:47.500 --> 01:52:51.119
then low blow, RKO, done. And so Cole doesn't say
2459
01:52:51.140 --> 01:52:54.930
in turn heel. He's going, have less mercy. And even
2460
01:52:55.279 --> 01:52:58.989
Cody brought up the term mercy in the promo. So
2461
01:52:59.930 --> 01:53:02.189
I think overall, Cole was encouraging him to go to
2462
01:53:02.210 --> 01:53:03.970
a darker side. Like, are you sure you shouldn't do this?
2463
01:53:03.989 --> 01:53:06.550
And that's been a theme. But I think they kind
2464
01:53:06.590 --> 01:53:10.819
of covered the base well here. In this specific instance,
2465
01:53:10.880 --> 01:53:12.949
it was stop having mercy on your opponents and do
2466
01:53:12.970 --> 01:53:15.649
what your opponents would do to you within the rules,
2467
01:53:17.069 --> 01:53:20.590
within gameplay. It's not a cheap shot at a quarterback.
2468
01:53:20.850 --> 01:53:23.760
It's just you tackle him hard. If he's going to
2469
01:53:23.960 --> 01:53:25.539
if he's if the quarterback runs out of the pocket,
2470
01:53:26.539 --> 01:53:29.840
you know, and and in his going for extra yards,
2471
01:53:29.920 --> 01:53:32.920
you can hit him hard. If he doesn't slide feet first,
2472
01:53:32.979 --> 01:53:34.939
he's fair game. That's kind of the argument I felt
2473
01:53:34.970 --> 01:53:35.649
Cole was making there.
2474
01:53:37.210 --> 01:53:37.449
Yes.
2475
01:53:37.550 --> 01:53:38.029
Football.
2476
01:53:38.310 --> 01:53:42.760
I also feel that, um, the, uh, the thing, the
2477
01:53:42.779 --> 01:53:46.479
thing that I'm, I'm just curious about is, is the
2478
01:53:46.560 --> 01:53:51.060
purpose of the segment. So like normally this, a segment
2479
01:53:51.300 --> 01:53:55.359
is to push forward a feud or a story, especially
2480
01:53:55.380 --> 01:53:59.060
the interview segments. Like Sammy will have these backstage versus
2481
01:53:59.119 --> 01:54:03.069
water bottle segments where it's just like character building, he's
2482
01:54:03.090 --> 01:54:09.020
spiraling out, whatever. Um, This was kind of that for Cody,
2483
01:54:09.039 --> 01:54:12.060
but it was a sit-down interview. I guess my question is,
2484
01:54:12.500 --> 01:54:16.810
is the purpose of this segment the beginning of Cody's
2485
01:54:16.850 --> 01:54:20.750
heel turn, or is the purpose of this segment... To
2486
01:54:21.010 --> 01:54:24.590
to like reset the feud with Randy Orton, like it
2487
01:54:24.670 --> 01:54:27.449
ended with like next time you're eye to eye with
2488
01:54:27.510 --> 01:54:28.609
Randy Orton, what are you.
2489
01:54:28.550 --> 01:54:29.050
Going to do?
2490
01:54:29.149 --> 01:54:31.569
And the whole thing was again about Randy Orton. Is
2491
01:54:31.590 --> 01:54:36.770
this like are they back to Randy Orton and Cody again? Like,
2492
01:54:36.850 --> 01:54:39.739
what do you guys think? the intention was, because I
2493
01:54:39.779 --> 01:54:41.600
just felt like I'm not saying I didn't like it.
2494
01:54:41.640 --> 01:54:44.020
I thought it was really great. I just felt it
2495
01:54:44.100 --> 01:54:46.439
felt weird and different as to what I'm used to
2496
01:54:46.479 --> 01:54:47.159
from these segments.
2497
01:54:47.710 --> 01:54:50.210
I feel in my answer or my initial response, I
2498
01:54:50.229 --> 01:54:51.069
think two things happen here.
2499
01:54:51.090 --> 01:54:53.109
Cody wanted to make the case. I shouldn't turn heel.
2500
01:54:53.130 --> 01:54:53.829
Y'all are wrong.
2501
01:54:54.170 --> 01:54:57.270
I've had success that the conventional wisdom and narrative is
2502
01:54:57.369 --> 01:54:59.489
missing key points. And I want to make my argument.
2503
01:55:00.130 --> 01:55:02.750
But I also want to mention Paul Heyman's name again.
2504
01:55:02.770 --> 01:55:05.619
You know, he did. I mean, it made sense. You know,
2505
01:55:05.659 --> 01:55:08.779
I've experimented and disrupted this in this industry more than anyone,
2506
01:55:08.840 --> 01:55:13.319
except perhaps Paul Heyman. He did the guarantee spoiler thing, too.
2507
01:55:14.279 --> 01:55:18.140
And so I think what I think it's it's two things.
2508
01:55:18.180 --> 01:55:20.779
You can say this is Cody making his case that
2509
01:55:21.319 --> 01:55:24.170
the narrative and conventionalism is wrong about him. Well, also
2510
01:55:24.630 --> 01:55:31.729
laying the laying the priming the whole priming Cody's character.
2511
01:55:32.909 --> 01:55:34.989
turn heel now the idea is when he turns heel
2512
01:55:35.970 --> 01:55:37.869
and this is why i'm thinking while i'm talking you
2513
01:55:37.909 --> 01:55:39.869
want there to be heat on him so if he
2514
01:55:39.909 --> 01:55:43.569
makes a compelling case that he didn't need to turn
2515
01:55:43.609 --> 01:55:46.229
heel but he chooses to anyway what you don't want
2516
01:55:46.289 --> 01:55:48.890
is people going finally cody learned to pull the trigger
2517
01:55:48.930 --> 01:55:50.510
as cole said he should and now we're going to
2518
01:55:50.550 --> 01:55:52.930
cheer him and paul hayman against whoever poor baby face
2519
01:55:52.970 --> 01:55:55.229
cody faces after cody turns heel you need to go
2520
01:55:55.270 --> 01:55:59.470
down a road where when he turns heel fans I
2521
01:55:59.470 --> 01:56:02.489
feel like that's a betrayal or worth booing. And I
2522
01:56:02.529 --> 01:56:04.930
don't know as I talk, but I'm open to hearing it.
2523
01:56:04.930 --> 01:56:08.350
There's a difference between giving clues you're going to turn
2524
01:56:08.369 --> 01:56:12.029
heel and building a case that fans should boo you
2525
01:56:12.050 --> 01:56:14.869
when you do. And he made the case against it
2526
01:56:14.909 --> 01:56:16.880
while hinting that maybe he's breaking down, but I don't
2527
01:56:16.899 --> 01:56:18.170
know why we'd resent him for doing it.
2528
01:56:18.420 --> 01:56:18.560
Eric.
2529
01:56:19.100 --> 01:56:21.899
Now, are you keen on what I've been thinking at
2530
01:56:21.920 --> 01:56:24.699
the end there? So I didn't see anything from this
2531
01:56:24.819 --> 01:56:28.220
particular interview that made me think that there's any sort
2532
01:56:28.260 --> 01:56:31.960
of pending Cody heel turn. If anything, this reinforced to
2533
01:56:32.020 --> 01:56:33.680
me that they still haven't given up on him as
2534
01:56:33.720 --> 01:56:36.569
a baby face. Because if you have, like you said,
2535
01:56:36.609 --> 01:56:39.689
your lead announcer trying to say, hey, it's okay if
2536
01:56:39.710 --> 01:56:42.949
you pull the trigger, then how are we supposed to
2537
01:56:42.989 --> 01:56:44.390
be upset with him if he doesn't?
2538
01:56:44.829 --> 01:56:46.130
Finally, Cody.
2539
01:56:46.800 --> 01:56:47.300
Oh, thank God.
2540
01:56:47.409 --> 01:56:50.640
Yay, finally. He kicked the guy when he was down
2541
01:56:50.659 --> 01:56:52.180
in the head. We don't like you anymore.
2542
01:56:52.199 --> 01:56:53.779
You're a jerk now.
2543
01:56:55.359 --> 01:56:58.720
Actually, just because I want Darrell to be able to
2544
01:56:58.760 --> 01:57:01.560
come on here. My last thing, and this dovetails nicely,
2545
01:57:01.579 --> 01:57:02.420
is Damien Priest.
2546
01:57:02.819 --> 01:57:04.539
By the way, you talk so long, Darrell has no time.
2547
01:57:05.720 --> 01:57:06.619
Oh, sorry.
2548
01:57:06.640 --> 01:57:07.739
No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
2549
01:57:07.760 --> 01:57:09.420
See if I can get Eric to do a spit
2550
01:57:09.439 --> 01:57:12.399
take while he's drinking.
2551
01:57:15.109 --> 01:57:18.670
So, so yeah, Damien Priest. So they, they played his
2552
01:57:18.770 --> 01:57:23.310
first heel promo backstage. So to your point, Wade, you know,
2553
01:57:23.369 --> 01:57:28.680
about like, is it too justified? Like what he's explaining,
2554
01:57:28.739 --> 01:57:34.029
he's like, you know, you're people should be, uh, I'm
2555
01:57:34.100 --> 01:57:37.100
very tolerant and I put up with this guy and
2556
01:57:37.279 --> 01:57:39.319
I was doing all the work and he kept accepting
2557
01:57:39.340 --> 01:57:41.500
these matches. And then I said, we're going to go
2558
01:57:41.560 --> 01:57:43.569
our separate ways. And then he's like, no, no, no,
2559
01:57:43.609 --> 01:57:46.590
let's keep going. I was like, yes, absolutely. Priest that
2560
01:57:46.750 --> 01:57:49.310
all happened. And I understand why you are pissed off.
2561
01:57:49.710 --> 01:57:51.500
And I would have done the same thing. And he's,
2562
01:57:51.699 --> 01:57:53.560
and then he's like, And I'm going to do some
2563
01:57:53.600 --> 01:57:56.779
more because you don't get it because I'm whatever his
2564
01:57:56.819 --> 01:57:59.039
catchphrase was. And I was like, I was like, am
2565
01:57:59.100 --> 01:58:02.779
I supposed to hate you right now? Because it's not working.
2566
01:58:03.229 --> 01:58:06.529
And also, like to your point, Wade, previously you've talked
2567
01:58:06.550 --> 01:58:10.539
about Priest coming off as like, you know, in the back. area,
2568
01:58:10.579 --> 01:58:12.840
it's like kind of like a wise and veteran.
2569
01:58:12.859 --> 01:58:15.100
He's the guy who would step in when two drunk
2570
01:58:15.119 --> 01:58:16.060
guys at a bar are just.
2571
01:58:15.979 --> 01:58:17.739
Getting out of hand. You're like, come on, people. Let's
2572
01:58:17.779 --> 01:58:19.689
just settle down. This has gotten out of hand.
2573
01:58:19.699 --> 01:58:22.609
And so I got some of that vibe as well.
2574
01:58:22.970 --> 01:58:25.289
And so it's just like, you know, I'm not saying
2575
01:58:25.310 --> 01:58:27.470
that he can't be a healer or anything. I'm just
2576
01:58:27.510 --> 01:58:32.109
saying that This tonight didn't– I don't know. I'm not
2577
01:58:32.130 --> 01:58:33.989
sure if it didn't work for me or it was
2578
01:58:34.079 --> 01:58:34.859
too logical.
2579
01:58:35.199 --> 01:58:36.260
Yeah, exactly.
2580
01:58:36.640 --> 01:58:40.420
But yeah, what did you both think on Damien Priest's
2581
01:58:40.840 --> 01:58:42.380
first words post heel turn?
2582
01:58:43.460 --> 01:58:46.050
Well, Derek Mitchell says, Damien Priest's promo sounded like a
2583
01:58:46.050 --> 01:58:48.310
promo from the Mari Pulpit show when a guy denies
2584
01:58:48.369 --> 01:58:49.289
being the baby daddy.
2585
01:58:49.829 --> 01:58:51.109
That's so specific.
2586
01:58:51.529 --> 01:58:55.529
It's very specific. Eric, go ahead. What did you think
2587
01:58:55.550 --> 01:58:55.890
of Priest?
2588
01:58:56.050 --> 01:58:59.869
I understood that reference. He sounded like angry priest. It
2589
01:58:59.930 --> 01:59:02.109
was nothing. He wanted everyone to know that he wants
2590
01:59:02.130 --> 01:59:04.909
to be called a bad man now. Like it's like
2591
01:59:04.930 --> 01:59:07.449
you said, Crofton, like everything he said was justified. Truth
2592
01:59:07.489 --> 01:59:09.930
was annoying. He teamed with him far longer than he
2593
01:59:09.989 --> 01:59:13.140
wanted to, but it didn't resonate with this promo because
2594
01:59:13.189 --> 01:59:17.640
priest has been saying this for months. Like he did.
2595
01:59:17.680 --> 01:59:20.359
He's been against it ever since. He's been annoyed at
2596
01:59:20.439 --> 01:59:22.619
every time truth goes off on one of his like
2597
01:59:22.659 --> 01:59:27.289
nonsensical rants and speak Spanish for no reason. So it just,
2598
01:59:27.369 --> 01:59:28.970
it didn't seem out of the ordinary. It doesn't seem
2599
01:59:28.989 --> 01:59:30.529
like a real abrupt change.
2600
01:59:31.689 --> 01:59:34.670
It, it, and also we know who Damien Priest is.
2601
01:59:34.689 --> 01:59:36.529
You know, Tom Martin talked about this when Adam Copeland
2602
01:59:36.550 --> 01:59:37.810
tries to be a bad guy. We bet we know
2603
01:59:37.829 --> 01:59:40.060
him too much. We've known him for too long. It
2604
01:59:40.100 --> 01:59:42.979
just feels like a performance. I honestly don't.
2605
01:59:43.640 --> 01:59:43.859
Yeah.
2606
01:59:44.220 --> 01:59:47.539
I just don't buy Damien Priest as a bad dude
2607
01:59:47.560 --> 01:59:52.060
or like he has come across as this since he
2608
01:59:52.069 --> 01:59:54.920
turned baby face is kind of level headed voice of reason,
2609
01:59:54.960 --> 01:59:57.600
mature guy that if you're an NBA or an NHL team,
2610
01:59:57.619 --> 01:59:59.739
you'd want that guy in your locker room to tell
2611
01:59:59.760 --> 02:00:03.010
the rookies, Hey, stop smoking so much pot because it's
2612
02:00:03.050 --> 02:00:05.770
affecting your, you know, like you're, you're showing up late
2613
02:00:05.789 --> 02:00:07.550
to practice because you're sleeping in, you know, like.
2614
02:00:08.340 --> 02:00:10.460
Whatever, you know, stop drinking so much. You're hung over.
2615
02:00:10.479 --> 02:00:11.239
You're going to regret this.
2616
02:00:11.600 --> 02:00:13.659
Like, he's the guy who's telling the kids how to
2617
02:00:13.699 --> 02:00:17.760
like grow up and mature. And suddenly he's, I'm doing
2618
02:00:17.800 --> 02:00:21.119
it an angry voice, but I'm making sense. Arthur is
2619
02:00:21.180 --> 02:00:24.520
a buffoon. And so it doesn't feel authentic. It feels
2620
02:00:24.579 --> 02:00:26.220
like it was time to turn priest heel. Cause they
2621
02:00:26.239 --> 02:00:28.180
want to feed him to Obafemi next year or something.
2622
02:00:28.220 --> 02:00:28.619
I don't know.
2623
02:00:29.100 --> 02:00:31.329
Or we, we ran out of opponents and we need
2624
02:00:31.350 --> 02:00:34.529
trick Williams to have someone to feud with or whoever like, okay.
2625
02:00:34.569 --> 02:00:37.930
But it doesn't mean it's believable. I would, you know, just,
2626
02:00:38.430 --> 02:00:41.810
having a two-year moratorium on turn so you just are
2627
02:00:43.189 --> 02:00:46.890
forced to look for other ways to get through your
2628
02:00:47.229 --> 02:00:51.539
booking cycles, I think would be good practice.
2629
02:00:52.899 --> 02:00:55.539
Well, I've taken the ball to the three-yard line, and
2630
02:00:55.579 --> 02:00:57.899
I'm going to hand it off to Jarrell, and he's
2631
02:00:57.920 --> 02:00:59.659
going to carry it the rest of the way to
2632
02:00:59.720 --> 02:01:00.720
score the home run.
2633
02:01:02.380 --> 02:01:03.930
He's got 90 seconds, thanks to you.
2634
02:01:04.609 --> 02:01:05.789
Nice talking to you both.
2635
02:01:06.069 --> 02:01:06.399
Love it.
2636
02:01:06.930 --> 02:01:07.970
Thanks, Robin. Appreciate it.
2637
02:01:08.359 --> 02:01:08.619
Bye.
2638
02:01:08.939 --> 02:01:09.140
Bye.
2639
02:01:09.159 --> 02:01:11.979
Have a good weekend. Super chat from Derek Mitchell. So
2640
02:01:12.010 --> 02:01:12.449
I don't forget.
2641
02:01:12.609 --> 02:01:14.409
Am I the only one who noticed the WWE Undisputed
2642
02:01:14.430 --> 02:01:18.100
Championship still has CM Punk's plates on it? Yeah, we
2643
02:01:18.119 --> 02:01:21.399
mentioned that. I didn't notice it, but we brought that
2644
02:01:21.439 --> 02:01:24.470
up earlier. And it would be a fun talking point
2645
02:01:24.510 --> 02:01:27.289
for Sammy next week to just be like, ah, Nick,
2646
02:01:27.310 --> 02:01:28.449
you didn't even think I was going to make it
2647
02:01:28.510 --> 02:01:30.810
seven to two weeks. So you didn't even bother to
2648
02:01:30.850 --> 02:01:33.409
put plates on my belt. Well, you know, where are
2649
02:01:33.430 --> 02:01:35.010
my plates now? Or I got them on there and
2650
02:01:35.029 --> 02:01:37.130
they're not coming off. So yeah, good observation, Derek.
2651
02:01:37.310 --> 02:01:40.829
Oh, little note. I was shocked at the graphic that
2652
02:01:40.890 --> 02:01:44.210
said that this was the first ever one-on-one championship match
2653
02:01:44.270 --> 02:01:46.470
between Owens and Zayn.
2654
02:01:47.090 --> 02:01:49.710
Not counting NXT, Michael Cole said. Yeah, Michael Cole said
2655
02:01:49.750 --> 02:01:50.510
other than NXT.
2656
02:01:50.630 --> 02:01:51.289
Yep. Right.
2657
02:01:51.600 --> 02:01:52.359
Not counting NXT.
2658
02:01:52.600 --> 02:01:54.699
I know. That was shocking to me.
2659
02:01:55.239 --> 02:01:56.819
Yeah.
2660
02:01:57.560 --> 02:01:59.659
And if anybody wants to laugh, I want to get
2661
02:01:59.729 --> 02:02:01.750
another dig in on Tiffany Stratton real quick.
2662
02:02:02.310 --> 02:02:03.890
So we're here for it.
2663
02:02:04.029 --> 02:02:06.010
They had the segment in the back with Chelsea and
2664
02:02:06.130 --> 02:02:08.470
Tiffany and all this. And then Dan Housen walked up.
2665
02:02:08.890 --> 02:02:13.180
If anyone didn't see Stratton's reaction to Dan Housen walking up,
2666
02:02:13.699 --> 02:02:17.899
I highly suggest walking it because we've seen Sammy's praises
2667
02:02:17.939 --> 02:02:21.090
tonight on how he does everything. That was the worst
2668
02:02:21.149 --> 02:02:23.949
reaction I've ever seen to anything. It was like, she just, wow.
2669
02:02:24.109 --> 02:02:26.289
Like a wooden statue just threw her arms up in
2670
02:02:26.329 --> 02:02:28.649
the air. It was so bad.
2671
02:02:29.369 --> 02:02:29.810
I will rewatch.
2672
02:02:29.829 --> 02:02:30.869
She used to watch Sammy Tapes.
2673
02:02:32.250 --> 02:02:33.470
Yeah.
2674
02:02:33.489 --> 02:02:35.930
Someone needs to grab that and make it into a GIF.
2675
02:02:36.350 --> 02:02:38.489
Some people can't carry a tune. It doesn't mean they're
2676
02:02:38.550 --> 02:02:40.329
bad people, but we don't have to pretend they're good
2677
02:02:40.350 --> 02:02:40.909
singers either.
2678
02:02:41.029 --> 02:02:41.229
No.
2679
02:02:41.710 --> 02:02:44.640
And she is, she's not a good actor.
2680
02:02:45.359 --> 02:02:47.460
And there was a lot to like about the show.
2681
02:02:47.479 --> 02:02:48.699
I want to make clear about this. I feel like
2682
02:02:48.720 --> 02:02:52.510
I liked about 85% of the show. I thought the
2683
02:02:52.550 --> 02:02:55.310
two Money in the Bank matches were good. And I
2684
02:02:55.409 --> 02:02:58.850
really liked the finishes to both of them. I liked
2685
02:02:58.890 --> 02:03:02.699
how Jade Cargill was going for her lick her hands pinfall,
2686
02:03:02.739 --> 02:03:04.909
which she always does when she wins. But then she
2687
02:03:04.949 --> 02:03:09.670
got caught by surprise and actually lost clean. Orton lost
2688
02:03:09.750 --> 02:03:13.149
clean when he just was too cocky, like a heel
2689
02:03:13.189 --> 02:03:16.029
should be, and celebrated that he hit the big RKO.
2690
02:03:16.569 --> 02:03:20.060
And then Trick took advantage of it. And I also
2691
02:03:20.069 --> 02:03:24.819
thought that the goodbye amigo spot from Phoenix onto Orton
2692
02:03:24.840 --> 02:03:29.779
when he was going for the draping DUT was really fantastic, too. Oh, yes.
2693
02:03:30.399 --> 02:03:31.939
That was really well done.
2694
02:03:32.220 --> 02:03:32.439
Yes.
2695
02:03:32.600 --> 02:03:34.659
That was a really nice spot. I like that too.
2696
02:03:36.260 --> 02:03:39.159
Oh, Eric, before we go to Darrell, you've got something
2697
02:03:39.199 --> 02:03:40.300
to plug and I want you to get that in
2698
02:03:40.319 --> 02:03:42.420
before we forget.
2699
02:03:42.439 --> 02:03:42.739
Oh, yeah.
2700
02:03:43.380 --> 02:03:44.939
I will make it quick. So first of all, I
2701
02:03:44.939 --> 02:03:48.029
wanted to thank anyone if they checked out and supported
2702
02:03:48.090 --> 02:03:51.770
my Kickstarter for Bad Will, my comic book series about
2703
02:03:52.170 --> 02:03:55.640
a thrift store that only accepts donations from past relationships,
2704
02:03:56.039 --> 02:03:58.260
kind of like The Office or Parks and Recreation, those
2705
02:03:58.279 --> 02:04:02.909
kind of workplace comedies. If anybody thinks that's their thing
2706
02:04:02.949 --> 02:04:06.289
and might enjoy it, check out my website at badwillcomic.com.
2707
02:04:06.689 --> 02:04:09.840
Both episodes one and two are available now, and there's
2708
02:04:09.880 --> 02:04:13.300
a bundle available. So love it if anyone checks it out.
2709
02:04:13.739 --> 02:04:16.579
But then also, I know none of us really love
2710
02:04:16.659 --> 02:04:19.060
social media here, and I am one of those as well.
2711
02:04:19.500 --> 02:04:21.560
But I'm doing something that I think is fun on
2712
02:04:21.619 --> 02:04:26.250
social media in October. I'm launching a tournament called Bad
2713
02:04:26.289 --> 02:04:31.039
Will Presents the Workplace Comedy Character Championships. I went through
2714
02:04:31.079 --> 02:04:35.710
a painstaking process myself of defining what a workplace comedy
2715
02:04:35.750 --> 02:04:39.449
TV show would be, and then figuring out all the
2716
02:04:39.489 --> 02:04:42.770
shows that might encompass throughout history used a lot of
2717
02:04:42.829 --> 02:04:45.989
different search engines to list to compare, narrowed it down
2718
02:04:46.270 --> 02:04:50.640
to 64 characters from workplace comedies throughout TV history. I'm
2719
02:04:50.659 --> 02:04:53.079
keeping the bracket a secret, but I'm gonna put up
2720
02:04:53.180 --> 02:04:56.399
two matches a day, starting in October, and people can
2721
02:04:56.460 --> 02:05:01.229
vote across my Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. There's no
2722
02:05:01.279 --> 02:05:04.409
right way to vote. It can be the funniest, most iconic,
2723
02:05:04.930 --> 02:05:07.869
best written character, whatever you want. I just think it
2724
02:05:07.909 --> 02:05:10.630
would be a lot of fun. And so if anybody's
2725
02:05:10.670 --> 02:05:13.829
curious and wants to follow along, just check my social media.
2726
02:05:14.130 --> 02:05:16.960
My links are in my SmackDown report this week, and
2727
02:05:16.979 --> 02:05:18.979
I'll probably keep talking about it for the next month
2728
02:05:19.020 --> 02:05:22.720
or so anyway. And if this goes well, I'm wondering
2729
02:05:22.760 --> 02:05:25.159
if there's a nice way that we can maybe utilize
2730
02:05:25.180 --> 02:05:26.220
this elsewhere too.
2731
02:05:27.479 --> 02:05:29.970
Sweet. That sounds fun.
2732
02:05:30.010 --> 02:05:30.250
Yeah.
2733
02:05:30.649 --> 02:05:33.569
Cool. We will stay in touch. I've queued up. I'm
2734
02:05:33.590 --> 02:05:35.229
going to watch Tiffany's reaction to Danhausen.
2735
02:05:36.649 --> 02:05:38.529
It's so bad. It's so bad.
2736
02:05:41.260 --> 02:05:41.539
Yep.
2737
02:05:41.579 --> 02:05:41.800
Yep.
2738
02:05:42.380 --> 02:05:42.579
Yep.
2739
02:05:43.199 --> 02:05:44.909
I mean, yeah, she needs to.
2740
02:05:44.890 --> 02:05:47.250
Hang around with Chelsea because Chelsea is getting really good.
2741
02:05:47.909 --> 02:05:48.189
Yeah.
2742
02:05:48.529 --> 02:05:48.670
Yeah.
2743
02:05:48.710 --> 02:05:51.329
That's it's very, it was very, it's very different.
2744
02:05:52.550 --> 02:05:52.770
Yeah.
2745
02:06:00.560 --> 02:06:03.579
Are you a fan of AEW looking to sit back, relax,
2746
02:06:03.699 --> 02:06:06.579
and listen to some like-minded podcasters who share your passion?
2747
02:06:07.289 --> 02:06:09.050
Do you want to be talked off the ledge after
2748
02:06:09.069 --> 02:06:11.270
a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
2749
02:06:11.289 --> 02:06:11.810
they thinking?
2750
02:06:12.449 --> 02:06:14.890
Do you want to join a discussion on what AEW
2751
02:06:14.949 --> 02:06:17.399
is doing right and what they could do to improve?
2752
02:06:17.800 --> 02:06:18.840
Then join me, Joel.
2753
02:06:19.180 --> 02:06:21.920
And me, Greg, for the All Elite Conversation Club every
2754
02:06:21.979 --> 02:06:26.369
Friday on the PWTorch Livecast feed. Search PWTorch in your
2755
02:06:26.390 --> 02:06:30.229
podcast app and subscribe to PWTorch Dailycast or stream our
2756
02:06:30.250 --> 02:06:34.569
shows directly from PWTorch.com. Find full details on the PWTorch
2757
02:06:34.609 --> 02:06:38.270
Dailycast lineup at PWTorchDailycast.com.
2758
02:06:47.300 --> 02:06:51.460
To Derek's point, there are four characters from Taxi and
2759
02:06:51.560 --> 02:06:55.460
one from Night Court. And in a very ironic twist,
2760
02:06:55.600 --> 02:06:58.500
I'm actually technically related to a character from Taxi, which
2761
02:06:58.539 --> 02:07:01.180
is the most bizarre thing. And I know most people don't.
2762
02:07:01.359 --> 02:07:04.920
I am related to Mary Lou Henner. And so for
2763
02:07:04.939 --> 02:07:06.539
those of you who know who that is, she is
2764
02:07:06.619 --> 02:07:09.000
married to my dad's cousin. I don't really know her, but.
2765
02:07:11.260 --> 02:07:15.439
I've met her once and her husband backs my comic book.
2766
02:07:15.460 --> 02:07:19.390
So he might see this tournament that I'm running. And
2767
02:07:19.510 --> 02:07:22.149
I've seen the matchups. She's got a tough one and
2768
02:07:22.170 --> 02:07:25.489
they were randomized. But I'll be curious to see how
2769
02:07:25.510 --> 02:07:28.010
this turns out to see if her family sees it
2770
02:07:28.029 --> 02:07:30.439
and gives her some support. So it could be interesting.
2771
02:07:31.380 --> 02:07:34.199
So she's married to your father's cousin?
2772
02:07:34.840 --> 02:07:35.039
Yes.
2773
02:07:35.779 --> 02:07:37.600
So that is your cousin-in-law.
2774
02:07:38.739 --> 02:07:41.010
That sounds right. I never thought it through.
2775
02:07:41.590 --> 02:07:44.149
Your father's cousin is your first cousin runs removed. That
2776
02:07:44.189 --> 02:07:47.029
person's spouse is a first cousin runs removed by marriage,
2777
02:07:47.069 --> 02:07:47.869
thus cousin-in-law.
2778
02:07:48.489 --> 02:07:51.310
Is this a Spaceballs thing right now? Is this my
2779
02:07:51.369 --> 02:07:53.170
former cousin's roommate?
2780
02:07:55.189 --> 02:07:56.670
I was curious if that had a title, so I
2781
02:07:56.670 --> 02:07:57.270
had to look that up.
2782
02:07:57.420 --> 02:07:57.680
Oh, yeah.
2783
02:07:57.899 --> 02:07:59.840
So, yeah, I really did try to take in a
2784
02:07:59.859 --> 02:08:03.000
lot of shows from throughout history. But it's tricky to
2785
02:08:03.020 --> 02:08:05.479
figure out how to define a workplace comedy. That was tricky.
2786
02:08:05.880 --> 02:08:07.819
Some shows just didn't qualify. And what I kind of
2787
02:08:07.840 --> 02:08:10.579
went for was not get into this too much because
2788
02:08:10.600 --> 02:08:13.670
we don't have time. But it was. Is the workplace
2789
02:08:13.710 --> 02:08:16.210
kind of a main setting of the show and do
2790
02:08:16.270 --> 02:08:18.609
most of the characters kind of work there or at
2791
02:08:18.649 --> 02:08:20.819
least interact there like throughout most of the show?
2792
02:08:21.239 --> 02:08:21.859
The Bob Newhart show?
2793
02:08:23.159 --> 02:08:24.760
Did not count. Why not?
2794
02:08:25.300 --> 02:08:28.180
Or, you know, 50 50 apartment and in the dentist
2795
02:08:28.239 --> 02:08:29.960
office or the psychology office.
2796
02:08:30.100 --> 02:08:32.060
I'd have to look at my sheet account and maybe
2797
02:08:32.100 --> 02:08:34.399
he just didn't make the cut because by the end
2798
02:08:34.439 --> 02:08:37.890
of it, after I cut characters and I limited it
2799
02:08:37.989 --> 02:08:41.369
to five characters per show, like a show like The Office,
2800
02:08:41.449 --> 02:08:42.829
it was going to be hard to deny more than
2801
02:08:43.109 --> 02:08:45.649
like had to have at least five. But I didn't
2802
02:08:45.689 --> 02:08:48.270
want them to all be dominated. So I capped it
2803
02:08:48.310 --> 02:08:52.149
at five. And by the end of it, after trimming down,
2804
02:08:52.210 --> 02:08:54.489
I had 108 characters. And by the time I got
2805
02:08:54.520 --> 02:08:57.520
it down to 64, it only ended up being characters
2806
02:08:57.539 --> 02:09:00.359
from 22 different shows. And I was a little surprised
2807
02:09:00.399 --> 02:09:02.300
by that. But when you look at it, it does
2808
02:09:02.319 --> 02:09:02.760
make sense.
2809
02:09:03.460 --> 02:09:03.659
Yeah.
2810
02:09:03.699 --> 02:09:04.399
Thanks, good fella.
2811
02:09:05.520 --> 02:09:05.739
Sweet.
2812
02:09:05.760 --> 02:09:06.689
I hope you enjoy it. I'd love to hear what
2813
02:09:06.699 --> 02:09:06.930
you think.
2814
02:09:06.939 --> 02:09:09.789
Good fella says, just bought my Bad Will Comics signed
2815
02:09:09.869 --> 02:09:11.390
edition through exclamation marks.
2816
02:09:12.170 --> 02:09:16.010
So, yeah. So again, how can people get it?
2817
02:09:17.090 --> 02:09:21.609
It's at badwillcomic.com for that. And then for the tournament,
2818
02:09:21.710 --> 02:09:24.210
I'm sure I'll mention it more. Maybe I'll even, well,
2819
02:09:24.289 --> 02:09:27.869
with your permission, maybe I'll put something in the forum. Yeah, yeah. Okay,
2820
02:09:27.989 --> 02:09:32.140
I'll put something in there under the TV and extracurricular stuff.
2821
02:09:33.270 --> 02:09:37.520
I am all for with the right to withdraw this
2822
02:09:37.779 --> 02:09:41.579
as a policy, people plugging creative projects that they're part
2823
02:09:41.680 --> 02:09:43.060
of or things that they do in the forum.
2824
02:09:43.079 --> 02:09:44.659
I think it's a good conversation piece and a way
2825
02:09:44.699 --> 02:09:47.199
for us to get to know each other better. Um, if, uh,
2826
02:09:47.229 --> 02:09:48.170
we can see what people are doing.
2827
02:09:48.449 --> 02:09:48.850
Yeah.
2828
02:09:48.869 --> 02:09:52.090
I even created all the graphics for the different platforms
2829
02:09:52.289 --> 02:09:54.979
all myself. No AI helped me. I didn't need, I
2830
02:09:55.020 --> 02:09:56.840
didn't use any of that. I had to come up
2831
02:09:56.859 --> 02:09:59.460
with different voting mechanisms to make it easy for everyone,
2832
02:09:59.500 --> 02:10:01.640
depending on what platform it is. So I'll put, I'll
2833
02:10:01.659 --> 02:10:04.239
start a thread and also say, who do you think
2834
02:10:04.260 --> 02:10:06.439
should have made the cut? And I'll just enjoy seeing,
2835
02:10:06.460 --> 02:10:09.380
you know, who you guys thought. Cause it was fun
2836
02:10:09.399 --> 02:10:10.609
to even, it was fun to go through it all.
2837
02:10:10.619 --> 02:10:12.420
And I've seen all the matchups now. So it's pretty cool.
2838
02:10:13.479 --> 02:10:13.739
Awesome.
2839
02:10:14.220 --> 02:10:15.340
Very cool. That that's super fun.
2840
02:10:16.430 --> 02:10:16.789
All right.
2841
02:10:17.289 --> 02:10:19.810
Well, sorry, Darrell. We're out of time now. No, I'm kidding.
2842
02:10:21.020 --> 02:10:21.600
Darrell, welcome.
2843
02:10:22.380 --> 02:10:23.239
Look at that smile.
2844
02:10:23.699 --> 02:10:25.300
Hey, Darrell, I didn't mean to steal your time.
2845
02:10:25.720 --> 02:10:28.779
No, Darrell said, as long as I'm last, I'm happy,
2846
02:10:28.810 --> 02:10:33.369
he said earlier in the chat. So you are last, Darrell.
2847
02:10:33.449 --> 02:10:35.270
We're glad to be on. What do you want to
2848
02:10:35.310 --> 02:10:37.189
cover that we've already covered or what do you want
2849
02:10:37.210 --> 02:10:37.909
to bring up that we haven't yet?
2850
02:10:39.729 --> 02:10:42.250
I start off and I bring up about Cody.
2851
02:10:42.630 --> 02:10:45.170
I like that he's doing the Paul Heyman line in
2852
02:10:45.189 --> 02:10:48.720
the whole thing. And you can tell that he's kind
2853
02:10:48.939 --> 02:10:55.340
of he's cracking under his believability of that he's taking
2854
02:10:55.359 --> 02:10:55.979
the right way.
2855
02:10:56.100 --> 02:10:58.779
So I can already see the structure of the.
2856
02:10:58.699 --> 02:11:01.239
Heel turn because he's going to feel like I've been
2857
02:11:01.260 --> 02:11:02.680
doing the right thing the whole time.
2858
02:11:02.760 --> 02:11:04.819
You all been doing the wrong thing.
2859
02:11:05.039 --> 02:11:08.609
Even though you can see that he's he's going in
2860
02:11:08.649 --> 02:11:11.210
a different way in his mind. He's trying to make
2861
02:11:11.229 --> 02:11:14.409
himself believe something else. So that'll be totally good to
2862
02:11:14.449 --> 02:11:17.810
see him do that. Coming off of the Sami Zayn
2863
02:11:17.850 --> 02:11:21.560
delusional part that I really love that Sami has taken,
2864
02:11:22.140 --> 02:11:23.739
I would love him to say he got this from
2865
02:11:23.779 --> 02:11:24.539
Roman Reigns.
2866
02:11:24.960 --> 02:11:26.340
Because Roman would.
2867
02:11:26.859 --> 02:11:29.979
He would manipulate his people and Sami out here gaslighting
2868
02:11:30.380 --> 02:11:31.300
everybody else.
2869
02:11:32.760 --> 02:11:35.739
So that would be good. Good ways to follow up.
2870
02:11:37.090 --> 02:11:42.350
Yeah, I think... Cody is observing the world of WWE.
2871
02:11:42.399 --> 02:11:47.569
And, you know, he comes across as somebody who's very, he's, he's,
2872
02:11:47.710 --> 02:11:55.029
you know, introspective and wanting to share his internal rationalizations
2873
02:11:55.050 --> 02:11:58.289
and justifications and thoughts and, and be, he wants to
2874
02:11:58.329 --> 02:12:00.649
be understood. I think is like a big theme with Cody.
2875
02:12:00.670 --> 02:12:02.630
I think that came through in this interview. So, you know,
2876
02:12:02.989 --> 02:12:05.069
beginning of Citadel did seem like laying the groundwork. I
2877
02:12:05.109 --> 02:12:08.590
think the argument is, that this was setting the stage
2878
02:12:08.630 --> 02:12:12.529
for a Cody turn is that Cody wants to be understood.
2879
02:12:12.729 --> 02:12:14.949
And what's going to cause him to go heal is
2880
02:12:14.989 --> 02:12:18.229
people not seeing the world the way that he saw
2881
02:12:18.270 --> 02:12:23.319
it and understanding and applauding his approach. So it is,
2882
02:12:23.399 --> 02:12:26.579
well then screw it. And it can be Paul Heyman
2883
02:12:26.659 --> 02:12:30.619
in his ear. Paul had a mystery phone call, little
2884
02:12:30.659 --> 02:12:33.420
references to Heyman, which could just be red herrings. It
2885
02:12:33.479 --> 02:12:35.640
could be us reading too much into it, or it
2886
02:12:36.140 --> 02:12:39.140
could be, laying the groundwork for it to make more
2887
02:12:39.159 --> 02:12:41.399
sense when it happens, whether they acknowledge it in, in
2888
02:12:41.479 --> 02:12:44.000
Canon or not that, that Paul was in Cody's ear
2889
02:12:44.039 --> 02:12:47.859
all this time. Um, tonight's promo can, I think can be,
2890
02:12:48.319 --> 02:12:51.659
he wants to be understood and what caused him to
2891
02:12:51.699 --> 02:12:54.760
snap is in, is a, it has to be an
2892
02:12:54.960 --> 02:13:01.979
unrealistic expectation and an overreaction and an overcorrection of sorts that,
2893
02:13:02.020 --> 02:13:02.979
that leads to him being a heel.
2894
02:13:03.649 --> 02:13:05.100
Uh, Eric, do you want to comment anything Darrell said there?
2895
02:13:06.479 --> 02:13:08.060
Boy, and I think you kind of hit it head on.
2896
02:13:08.500 --> 02:13:10.359
I don't really have anything interesting to add.
2897
02:13:11.479 --> 02:13:14.159
Derek Mitchell says, Cody said, or Cole said, Cody's QB
2898
02:13:14.180 --> 02:13:16.399
won without a team because everyone after WrestleMania 40 turned
2899
02:13:16.460 --> 02:13:17.520
on him. It was in the ring in the photo,
2900
02:13:17.550 --> 02:13:20.210
Cena KO, Randy, Sammy. But LA Knight, CM Punk, and
2901
02:13:20.250 --> 02:13:25.409
Jay didn't turn on Cody. Also, but a good point
2902
02:13:25.430 --> 02:13:25.649
from Derek.
2903
02:13:25.829 --> 02:13:26.470
I also liked.
2904
02:13:26.979 --> 02:13:28.840
Cody's saying the team isn't just who's in the ring
2905
02:13:28.880 --> 02:13:30.590
with me. There's more people in the back. And he
2906
02:13:30.600 --> 02:13:32.329
kind of said, you know, the fans, there's like fans
2907
02:13:32.350 --> 02:13:35.430
who are kind of my team. When Cole said, you're
2908
02:13:35.449 --> 02:13:38.409
a quarterback without a team. Cody's like, I got my team.
2909
02:13:38.630 --> 02:13:41.550
A few people aren't here, you know, left the team,
2910
02:13:41.590 --> 02:13:44.289
but there's still a team. It's not just them. And
2911
02:13:44.350 --> 02:13:48.130
so like, I love the logic that Cody counters that.
2912
02:13:49.399 --> 02:13:52.079
accusations or framing of what he's doing or what's happened.
2913
02:13:52.479 --> 02:13:54.699
He just kind of, he comes across as somebody who's
2914
02:13:54.739 --> 02:13:57.699
thought through his character and lives that as an action.
2915
02:13:57.760 --> 02:14:02.180
It's almost, it's almost like this, like there's Cody Rhodes
2916
02:14:02.199 --> 02:14:03.119
who goes home, but it's like.
2917
02:14:03.380 --> 02:14:04.159
He's that guy.
2918
02:14:04.359 --> 02:14:06.640
Like he's so authentically Cody that when he cuts a
2919
02:14:06.640 --> 02:14:09.659
promo with Cole, it kind of feels like he's talking
2920
02:14:09.680 --> 02:14:11.689
about things that he spent his free time processing.
2921
02:14:13.470 --> 02:14:14.079
I'll draw it back to you.
2922
02:14:15.109 --> 02:14:17.539
And I would like that they continue to do, like,
2923
02:14:17.560 --> 02:14:19.939
just interviews, sit-down interviews or something with him.
2924
02:14:20.279 --> 02:14:21.539
Don't have him on TV no more.
2925
02:14:21.579 --> 02:14:23.979
He shouldn't even be trying to get into Money in
2926
02:14:24.000 --> 02:14:27.140
the Bank qualifying matches or nothing. Because when he do
2927
02:14:27.220 --> 02:14:30.779
come back and he returns, we can see whatever this
2928
02:14:30.979 --> 02:14:33.859
character or whatever this new thing that he's trying to bring,
2929
02:14:34.380 --> 02:14:37.550
bring up. Because that would be better. And you got
2930
02:14:37.649 --> 02:14:40.039
such a big... And that's a good thing about the
2931
02:14:40.060 --> 02:14:43.840
Sammy title run. He has created such a big, robust
2932
02:14:43.939 --> 02:14:47.079
main event scene with so many people that right now
2933
02:14:47.119 --> 02:14:49.279
you don't need Cody right now. And you can give
2934
02:14:49.359 --> 02:14:53.510
Cody time to refresh himself and give you a different
2935
02:14:53.529 --> 02:14:55.789
type of character and build it for you week by
2936
02:14:55.869 --> 02:14:59.949
week by doing sit down interviews and demanding Cole or
2937
02:15:00.029 --> 02:15:03.890
requesting Cole to be the person to come and interview,
2938
02:15:04.109 --> 02:15:07.449
sit down and interview him weekly. And you can start
2939
02:15:07.470 --> 02:15:11.310
seeing the cracking in his logic and things that he's
2940
02:15:11.350 --> 02:15:11.949
trying to tell us.
2941
02:15:12.609 --> 02:15:13.289
Yeah. Yeah.
2942
02:15:13.310 --> 02:15:15.649
It can be on a, on a journey to that. Cody,
2943
02:15:15.670 --> 02:15:18.800
I think him doing podcasts is probably helping him in
2944
02:15:18.840 --> 02:15:23.319
a long form format like this too, where he has, he's,
2945
02:15:23.640 --> 02:15:25.140
you know, it's one thing to just have conversations in
2946
02:15:25.180 --> 02:15:27.460
real life, but to kind of be sort of in character,
2947
02:15:27.500 --> 02:15:28.939
but sort of out, it's always a hybrid when a
2948
02:15:28.960 --> 02:15:30.970
wrestler does a podcast, you're not getting their full authentic self,
2949
02:15:31.020 --> 02:15:33.470
but certainly, You can't talk that long and not reveal
2950
02:15:33.510 --> 02:15:36.069
more of yourself. And often what you do contradicts your character, Cody,
2951
02:15:36.109 --> 02:15:42.300
less than most, obviously. But there's something about that that
2952
02:15:42.340 --> 02:15:44.979
probably makes him more comfortable in this setting because that's
2953
02:15:45.060 --> 02:15:47.060
basically his podcast form. It's just sitting opposite somebody in
2954
02:15:47.079 --> 02:15:49.380
a chair and he's just talking about something that's dear
2955
02:15:49.399 --> 02:15:51.500
to him, which is his on-air character, which, again, has
2956
02:15:51.560 --> 02:15:53.979
an 80% overlap, at least with who he really sees
2957
02:15:54.000 --> 02:15:54.680
himself as.
2958
02:15:56.439 --> 02:15:56.779
What else, Daryl?
2959
02:15:58.079 --> 02:16:02.619
And, okay, now just another Tiffany bash to join Eric,
2960
02:16:02.779 --> 02:16:07.890
you know. She ain't a good actor, but, you know, Twitch,
2961
02:16:07.949 --> 02:16:10.649
she ain't a good Twitcher neither because she almost hurt
2962
02:16:10.670 --> 02:16:13.510
her career by almost breaking her neck trying to do
2963
02:16:13.569 --> 02:16:17.979
a dive for her Twitch fans too. So that was even,
2964
02:16:18.000 --> 02:16:20.199
I was like, wow.
2965
02:16:20.239 --> 02:16:21.500
I'm pretty sure she.
2966
02:16:21.439 --> 02:16:24.500
Got her a call after that right there from some
2967
02:16:24.520 --> 02:16:25.260
people up high.
2968
02:16:25.359 --> 02:16:26.180
But, hey.
2969
02:16:28.369 --> 02:16:30.449
I guess she couldn't act in front of the TVR,
2970
02:16:30.710 --> 02:16:32.809
in front of the Twitch people, because she almost did
2971
02:16:32.850 --> 02:16:37.340
something real. But outside of that, but the three, the
2972
02:16:37.360 --> 02:16:42.379
two qualifying matches, like you guys were saying, I like
2973
02:16:42.399 --> 02:16:43.860
how they gave.
2974
02:16:45.100 --> 02:16:49.309
I like how both matches ended. I like how.
2975
02:16:51.159 --> 02:16:53.920
Ray Phoenix got a little play in the match, even
2976
02:16:53.940 --> 02:16:55.180
though they took him out at first.
2977
02:16:55.239 --> 02:16:56.879
And I thought, oh, they're going to do that.
2978
02:16:56.940 --> 02:16:58.829
But that was just to give him and let him
2979
02:16:58.870 --> 02:17:00.930
build himself up so he can hit his move and
2980
02:17:00.950 --> 02:17:04.510
he can slowly show a little something on themselves. I'm
2981
02:17:04.549 --> 02:17:06.950
glad that they let Trink win. And then I like
2982
02:17:06.969 --> 02:17:09.209
that they let Trink come back and say something to
2983
02:17:09.250 --> 02:17:13.219
Sammy because, again, Trink is the catalyst to the Sammy
2984
02:17:13.260 --> 02:17:16.879
that we're getting right now. And while we're getting this
2985
02:17:16.940 --> 02:17:23.790
great– Sami Zayn, and maybe you can have Trick win
2986
02:17:23.809 --> 02:17:26.139
that Money in the Bank or something like that and
2987
02:17:26.239 --> 02:17:29.600
be scared of Sami and stuff like that because they intertwine.
2988
02:17:29.639 --> 02:17:32.079
That's another story that you can tell. It's something that
2989
02:17:32.239 --> 02:17:36.440
they interweaved into it. And also, I like that they
2990
02:17:36.489 --> 02:17:39.950
had Michael Cole in that qualifying match for the women
2991
02:17:40.329 --> 02:17:45.290
state that 100% of the women has won the Money
2992
02:17:45.350 --> 02:17:48.430
in the Bank who won the money in the bank,
2993
02:17:48.430 --> 02:17:53.229
100% won the title. Because that, to me, is seeing
2994
02:17:53.270 --> 02:17:55.690
it doubt that you can one day have one of
2995
02:17:55.729 --> 02:18:00.159
these women not win and lose because that's haven't happened yet.
2996
02:18:00.190 --> 02:18:03.020
So I like that he did that. All three, though,
2997
02:18:03.059 --> 02:18:05.000
I like how they set everything up. How did y'all...
2998
02:18:06.149 --> 02:18:08.190
prefer all the matches. And what did you think about
2999
02:18:08.229 --> 02:18:10.709
with Michael Cole said that up and with the backstage
3000
02:18:10.770 --> 02:18:11.750
with Trigg and Sammy?
3001
02:18:12.829 --> 02:18:13.729
Yeah. Eric, go ahead.
3002
02:18:14.389 --> 02:18:17.329
Sure. So starting with the, uh, the a hundred percent
3003
02:18:17.350 --> 02:18:20.860
success rate of the women, I think it's great. Uh,
3004
02:18:22.100 --> 02:18:23.959
I fear it's going to be in my head depending
3005
02:18:24.000 --> 02:18:25.440
on who wins. Cause I feel like you'd be able
3006
02:18:25.479 --> 02:18:27.180
to tell who wins. Like, is this someone they would
3007
02:18:27.219 --> 02:18:30.450
really let blow this and be the first person to
3008
02:18:30.530 --> 02:18:34.389
not cash in. Who was the first person to not
3009
02:18:34.430 --> 02:18:36.930
cash in? Was it John Cena? Was he the first
3010
02:18:36.979 --> 02:18:40.920
person to fail? Am I remembering that incorrectly? Because I
3011
02:18:40.940 --> 02:18:42.959
feel like it almost takes somebody at this point to
3012
02:18:43.000 --> 02:18:45.520
be that Teflon to be able to take that kind
3013
02:18:45.559 --> 02:18:46.280
of a loss.
3014
02:18:46.540 --> 02:18:49.620
Cena was the first person to say when he was
3015
02:18:49.680 --> 02:18:50.620
going to cash it in.
3016
02:18:50.639 --> 02:18:51.229
I thought that was RBD.
3017
02:18:51.260 --> 02:18:52.280
Wasn't that RBD?
3018
02:18:52.760 --> 02:18:55.719
I know we're talking about something different, Eric, but was
3019
02:18:55.760 --> 02:18:57.200
it RBD who was the first to say or was
3020
02:18:57.260 --> 02:18:57.559
it Cena?
3021
02:18:58.420 --> 02:19:01.700
Well, that was RVD who announced he went against Cena
3022
02:19:02.750 --> 02:19:06.850
at the ECW One Night Stand pay-per-view. So Van Damme
3023
02:19:07.110 --> 02:19:09.350
announced when he was going to cash in. Some people
3024
02:19:09.370 --> 02:19:13.430
know this. I could be wrong, but I thought Cena
3025
02:19:13.450 --> 02:19:15.969
was the first person to mess it up.
3026
02:19:16.049 --> 02:19:20.360
Yeah, I looked it up. In 2012, he challenged CM Punk.
3027
02:19:21.059 --> 02:19:23.500
Big Show interfered. So Cena won by DQ, but he
3028
02:19:23.520 --> 02:19:25.100
didn't win the title because you can't win the money
3029
02:19:25.139 --> 02:19:28.329
to make cash in on that. Um, Damien Sato was
3030
02:19:28.350 --> 02:19:30.670
the first one the next year to actually lose, not
3031
02:19:30.709 --> 02:19:31.399
win by DQ.
3032
02:19:32.430 --> 02:19:34.879
Um, so I think that's almost because otherwise whoever wins
3033
02:19:34.920 --> 02:19:37.819
the money in the bank, you assume you're giving them
3034
02:19:37.860 --> 02:19:39.840
that for a reason. Cause you want to catapult them
3035
02:19:39.879 --> 02:19:43.379
to the next level, but then losing the championship match
3036
02:19:43.440 --> 02:19:45.940
is just, it just nullifies all of it. So it
3037
02:19:45.959 --> 02:19:46.540
makes it such a trick.
3038
02:19:46.559 --> 02:19:47.040
It's awesome.
3039
02:19:47.059 --> 02:19:47.819
There is never recovered.
3040
02:19:48.500 --> 02:19:48.719
Right?
3041
02:19:48.799 --> 02:19:52.440
Yeah, exactly. And you can't, I mean, big picture, I'm
3042
02:19:52.479 --> 02:19:54.040
kind of over the money in the bank. I wish
3043
02:19:54.059 --> 02:19:56.899
they would get rid of it for five years. But
3044
02:19:56.920 --> 02:19:59.860
since it's not going anywhere, someone needs to lose because
3045
02:19:59.879 --> 02:20:04.430
you can't have 100% success rate. It's already diminished a
3046
02:20:04.469 --> 02:20:06.840
cash-in as much as you can possibly do it.
3047
02:20:09.309 --> 02:20:11.270
You know that last segment you're just listening to and
3048
02:20:11.290 --> 02:20:13.329
the next one that you're waiting to listen to? Those
3049
02:20:13.389 --> 02:20:15.870
can be one second apart with a VIP membership. You
3050
02:20:15.889 --> 02:20:20.049
can unlock our commercial-free versions of our shows. PWTorch.com slash
3051
02:20:20.090 --> 02:20:24.280
GoVIP tells you how to do it. That's PWTorch.com. Go
3052
02:20:24.299 --> 02:20:27.409
to pwtorch.com slash govip for full details on all the
3053
02:20:27.620 --> 02:20:30.430
options to listen commercial free and with upper tier options,
3054
02:20:30.489 --> 02:20:33.290
unlock our VIP exclusive podcasts that run throughout the week
3055
02:20:33.430 --> 02:20:55.450
every week. I don't like it virtually guarantees because it
3056
02:20:55.469 --> 02:20:59.430
sort of makes a farce out of your title reign.
3057
02:20:59.530 --> 02:21:00.209
If the element is a.
3058
02:21:00.190 --> 02:21:04.920
Prize, which is, I mean, it is preposterous that we
3059
02:21:05.329 --> 02:21:07.979
just accept that you go down in the record books
3060
02:21:08.239 --> 02:21:13.020
as someone who is a world champion, men or women's division,
3061
02:21:13.040 --> 02:21:16.000
whichever world title. by winning the way that you win
3062
02:21:16.040 --> 02:21:19.040
with money in the bank. And now the counter argument is, well,
3063
02:21:19.459 --> 02:21:23.159
you go through a grueling qualification, triple threat, and then
3064
02:21:23.200 --> 02:21:26.360
a ladder match. And so you've earned the right to
3065
02:21:26.399 --> 02:21:28.620
have a shortcut to a title, but it still is
3066
02:21:28.659 --> 02:21:31.489
a preposterous way for a champion to lose their title.
3067
02:21:32.209 --> 02:21:34.729
Has anyone ever actually had, I don't think we'll know
3068
02:21:34.770 --> 02:21:36.690
this off the top of our heads. Has anyone ever
3069
02:21:36.809 --> 02:21:41.469
actually had a memorable title reign after cashing in? Where
3070
02:21:41.510 --> 02:21:44.770
they had successful defenses and really just built themselves up?
3071
02:21:45.229 --> 02:21:46.770
Or is it usually just a couple of months and
3072
02:21:46.799 --> 02:21:51.739
then they lose it somehow? Well, he still lost it
3073
02:21:51.899 --> 02:21:54.579
pretty quick, right? He lost it like the next pay-per-view,
3074
02:21:54.620 --> 02:21:56.969
didn't he? Didn't he lose it at the Rumble?
3075
02:21:59.030 --> 02:21:59.670
I'm not sure.
3076
02:21:59.690 --> 02:22:03.229
I'm not sure, but I know because he won two.
3077
02:22:03.270 --> 02:22:04.350
He got it two in a row.
3078
02:22:05.200 --> 02:22:05.620
He did get.
3079
02:22:06.399 --> 02:22:06.739
I don't know.
3080
02:22:06.780 --> 02:22:09.040
I know Punk had two in a row. Edge had
3081
02:22:09.100 --> 02:22:10.040
two at least.
3082
02:22:10.319 --> 02:22:11.600
He took it from Mr. Kennedy.
3083
02:22:13.639 --> 02:22:16.829
Seth held it for like nine months after cashing in.
3084
02:22:17.770 --> 02:22:18.329
At WrestleMania?
3085
02:22:18.350 --> 02:22:21.450
Well, back in 2015.
3086
02:22:22.430 --> 02:22:25.350
That was the greatest self-run ever when he casted in
3087
02:22:25.469 --> 02:22:26.329
at WrestleMania.
3088
02:22:26.370 --> 02:22:27.649
He had it for a while.
3089
02:22:28.030 --> 02:22:29.969
J & J, remember, the only reason why he lost
3090
02:22:30.049 --> 02:22:33.540
it is because he messed his knee up.
3091
02:22:33.559 --> 02:22:34.239
That's right, yeah.
3092
02:22:34.260 --> 02:22:35.899
And I think he went to the pay-per-view when he
3093
02:22:35.940 --> 02:22:38.340
came back and got that enormous pop.
3094
02:22:38.399 --> 02:22:40.899
So that might be the exception.
3095
02:22:40.940 --> 02:22:42.440
But I think my point stands.
3096
02:22:42.459 --> 02:22:45.459
There's not a lot of Miz cashed in, Daniel Bryan
3097
02:22:45.479 --> 02:22:47.729
cashed in. None of them really had memorable reigns from this.
3098
02:22:48.360 --> 02:22:51.989
I'm not even sure about the women. Maybe Liv Morgan?
3099
02:22:52.049 --> 02:22:52.549
I'm not sure.
3100
02:22:52.569 --> 02:22:54.270
Yeah. Yeah.
3101
02:22:54.750 --> 02:22:58.229
Probably Seth Rollins was the only one because that's when
3102
02:22:58.250 --> 02:22:59.329
he had real character.
3103
02:22:59.920 --> 02:23:00.120
Yeah.
3104
02:23:00.280 --> 02:23:03.040
Also not an exercise for two hours and 15 minutes.
3105
02:23:03.139 --> 02:23:03.799
Exactly.
3106
02:23:04.360 --> 02:23:04.600
Yep.
3107
02:23:06.780 --> 02:23:11.139
So what were the other questions for now? I focused on.
3108
02:23:12.780 --> 02:23:17.469
Oh, y'all already got it. Y'all already got it. I'm just...
3109
02:23:16.729 --> 02:23:17.790
Last thing, just to.
3110
02:23:17.770 --> 02:23:21.450
Go ahead and end it, but Right now, SmackDown is
3111
02:23:21.489 --> 02:23:24.030
clicking on the whole. And this is just an overall
3112
02:23:24.069 --> 02:23:27.049
question about SmackDown as a whole. And I know you
3113
02:23:27.069 --> 02:23:29.309
were like two hours, but before the two hours started,
3114
02:23:29.329 --> 02:23:31.489
when it till the end of the three hours, they
3115
02:23:31.530 --> 02:23:34.790
start clicking a little bit and start putting things together
3116
02:23:34.809 --> 02:23:38.030
and they start smoothing. Right now, they got a robust
3117
02:23:38.299 --> 02:23:41.340
men's main event scene. I'm liking what they're doing with
3118
02:23:41.379 --> 02:23:45.079
Chelsea because... You can tell a story using the money
3119
02:23:45.100 --> 02:23:48.799
in the bank with her because she also is a
3120
02:23:48.940 --> 02:23:52.299
weak champion per se, but she's the opposite of Sami
3121
02:23:52.319 --> 02:23:55.290
Zayn because people want to see her win and stuff
3122
02:23:55.309 --> 02:23:58.829
like that. So right now they're clicking on a whole
3123
02:23:58.850 --> 02:24:00.250
different run and stuff.
3124
02:24:00.370 --> 02:24:00.889
I want to see.
3125
02:24:01.950 --> 02:24:05.840
how does this be a momentum for SmackDown, which is
3126
02:24:05.940 --> 02:24:09.579
kind of trailing behind Raw in, in certain, um, um,
3127
02:24:09.680 --> 02:24:13.180
demographics and stuff when you, um, look at things. But
3128
02:24:13.440 --> 02:24:15.860
right now to me, SmackDown is the better show. It's
3129
02:24:15.879 --> 02:24:19.819
the better shots, shots show everything because I hate how
3130
02:24:19.860 --> 02:24:21.500
sometimes Netflix do everything.
3131
02:24:21.600 --> 02:24:22.760
So how do.
3132
02:24:22.700 --> 02:24:25.299
Y'all see this and how are y'all taking, um, SmackDown
3133
02:24:25.360 --> 02:24:26.680
as a whole? And that'll be it for me.
3134
02:24:26.700 --> 02:24:27.469
All right.
3135
02:24:27.760 --> 02:24:28.540
Thanks for all. Appreciate it.
3136
02:24:28.920 --> 02:24:29.069
Yeah.
3137
02:24:29.100 --> 02:24:29.229
Eric.
3138
02:24:29.469 --> 02:24:29.610
Thanks.
3139
02:24:29.690 --> 02:24:33.030
Uh, uh, Yeah, I couldn't agree with him more, with
3140
02:24:33.049 --> 02:24:35.670
the exception of last week's Raw. I found Raw to
3141
02:24:35.709 --> 02:24:39.930
be very boring. And it's the same stuff every week. SmackDown,
3142
02:24:39.950 --> 02:24:43.020
it just feels like it's not a hard show to
3143
02:24:43.059 --> 02:24:47.219
watch anymore. It doesn't seem like anything's wasted. The matches
3144
02:24:47.260 --> 02:24:50.260
are generally pretty good, even if you're not getting a
3145
02:24:50.280 --> 02:24:55.329
bunch of outstanding matches. Everything is pretty good. And there
3146
02:24:55.350 --> 02:24:58.569
was a span of about a few weeks in a
3147
02:24:58.629 --> 02:24:59.350
row where it was.
3148
02:25:01.020 --> 02:25:03.479
It was like every show was like all women's matches
3149
02:25:03.520 --> 02:25:05.379
and it wasn't the good women. So that was getting,
3150
02:25:05.399 --> 02:25:08.069
that was a little tricky for a minute, but by
3151
02:25:08.120 --> 02:25:10.030
and large, it's been very good for a while now.
3152
02:25:11.110 --> 02:25:12.190
Yeah.
3153
02:25:12.250 --> 02:25:15.149
Daryl, I think asked about both triple threat qualifying matches.
3154
02:25:15.270 --> 02:25:17.579
Anything you want to add to that discussion? I'm kind
3155
02:25:17.590 --> 02:25:20.139
of thinking about if we, if there's anything else you
3156
02:25:20.159 --> 02:25:20.559
wanted to add.
3157
02:25:21.219 --> 02:25:23.000
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I like the finishes
3158
02:25:23.020 --> 02:25:25.420
a lot. I thought the right people won. I'm glad
3159
02:25:25.459 --> 02:25:27.979
that the people won that did. The only thing I
3160
02:25:28.020 --> 02:25:33.649
didn't like was the very choreographed, took-me-out-of-it spot in the
3161
02:25:33.690 --> 02:25:37.629
men's match where Phoenix was going to go for a
3162
02:25:37.709 --> 02:25:42.610
sunset flip powerbomb into the superplex with Orton, and it
3163
02:25:42.649 --> 02:25:44.629
just took forever. They were just standing there forever.
3164
02:25:44.659 --> 02:25:46.020
Yeah, yeah, they did.
3165
02:25:46.040 --> 02:25:47.940
And it just took me out of it. But other
3166
02:25:47.959 --> 02:25:49.100
than that, I thought everything was very good.
3167
02:25:49.680 --> 02:25:52.430
Also, both of them ended with a stolen pin. So
3168
02:25:52.590 --> 02:25:56.850
just booking the finishes too similar to each other. You know,
3169
02:25:56.930 --> 02:25:59.690
deduct some points for that. Just that that happens sometimes
3170
02:25:59.750 --> 02:26:02.030
or it's like, you know, I mean, I'm glad it
3171
02:26:02.059 --> 02:26:02.719
was at least.
3172
02:26:02.559 --> 02:26:06.540
A different kind of stolen pin, though. One was somebody
3173
02:26:06.559 --> 02:26:08.280
went to pin and they caught a knee to the face.
3174
02:26:08.299 --> 02:26:10.540
The other one was Orton was gloating that he hit
3175
02:26:10.579 --> 02:26:14.000
that RKO and, you know, took his eye off the prize.
3176
02:26:14.229 --> 02:26:15.489
So I was glad it was at least different.
3177
02:26:15.909 --> 02:26:16.809
Yeah, yeah.
3178
02:26:17.819 --> 02:26:20.260
Uh how about the tag title match uh are you
3179
02:26:20.280 --> 02:26:23.889
liking kyoki's personality presentation what they're doing with him do
3180
02:26:23.950 --> 02:26:26.229
you think it's gonna work and obviously this is a
3181
02:26:26.290 --> 02:26:29.469
beginning of a feud i'm not this you know having
3182
02:26:29.530 --> 02:26:31.219
it was a lame finish but it wasn't built as
3183
02:26:31.260 --> 02:26:33.319
a main event it's not you know i don't think
3184
02:26:33.340 --> 02:26:35.059
people were like super let down by it.
3185
02:26:36.399 --> 02:26:40.549
Um big picture um It's hard for me to take
3186
02:26:40.690 --> 02:26:43.069
tag team feuds seriously when there's only two tag teams
3187
02:26:43.110 --> 02:26:45.170
at a time. I think if they had six to
3188
02:26:45.190 --> 02:26:46.920
eight tag teams on the show and they could get
3189
02:26:46.940 --> 02:26:49.319
away with it, have them rotate in every few weeks,
3190
02:26:49.399 --> 02:26:52.040
you could really build up that picture. To your point
3191
02:26:52.059 --> 02:26:56.819
about Kiyoki, I think he looks like a clown. I
3192
02:26:58.000 --> 02:27:00.620
put in my report that he looks like a loose cannon,
3193
02:27:00.680 --> 02:27:02.329
but not in the cool Brian Pillman way.
3194
02:27:02.809 --> 02:27:03.170
He's just.
3195
02:27:04.069 --> 02:27:06.510
jumping around and making noises and yelling at the camera
3196
02:27:06.569 --> 02:27:09.309
and i'm like this isn't doing him any favors like
3197
02:27:09.329 --> 02:27:10.750
i think they could be doing a lot better.
3198
02:27:10.579 --> 02:27:12.739
With him oscar would do that sometimes which is acted
3199
02:27:12.760 --> 02:27:15.020
kind of over the top cartoonishly crazy.
3200
02:27:14.639 --> 02:27:17.760
And and there should be some dignity to your eccentricity.
3201
02:27:17.899 --> 02:27:20.120
Right agree that's a good way to say it yeah
3202
02:27:20.850 --> 02:27:24.809
all right cool i'm good uh wrapping up there uh
3203
02:27:25.370 --> 02:27:26.989
we went long uh.
3204
02:27:26.989 --> 02:27:29.319
It was fun though Yeah. Yes.
3205
02:27:29.840 --> 02:27:32.569
Derek Mitchell says take team divisions like special teams in
3206
02:27:32.600 --> 02:27:33.049
the NFL.
3207
02:27:33.180 --> 02:27:33.950
Nobody cares about it.
3208
02:27:34.879 --> 02:27:40.459
Um no kickoffs yeah um yeah michael colby on smackdown
3209
02:27:40.479 --> 02:27:42.780
for the foreseeable future notes derrick because joe testore will
3210
02:27:42.799 --> 02:27:46.420
be doing weekend college football duties so that uh shakes
3211
02:27:46.829 --> 02:27:50.530
shakes things up a bit um yeah cool all right
3212
02:27:50.569 --> 02:27:53.790
so yeah go uh please uh put a uh a
3213
02:27:54.190 --> 02:27:56.889
thumbs up give us a a like on uh on
3214
02:27:56.909 --> 02:27:59.500
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3215
02:27:59.549 --> 02:28:02.950
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3216
02:28:02.969 --> 02:28:05.950
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3217
02:28:05.969 --> 02:28:09.989
Show and also the PWTorch Daily Cast. And go VIP
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02:28:10.010 --> 02:28:12.290
and join the VIP forum. It'll keep you busy this weekend.
3219
02:28:12.329 --> 02:28:15.409
It's just great conversations going on. I don't think you'll find, honestly,
3220
02:28:15.430 --> 02:28:18.190
I don't think you'll find more civil, more in-depth, more
3221
02:28:19.250 --> 02:28:26.309
just intellectual, honest discussions about cool stuff in pro wrestling
3222
02:28:26.329 --> 02:28:30.659
current in the past than, than we've established in like
3223
02:28:30.659 --> 02:28:33.000
13 days or 12 days or 11 days, whatever it's
3224
02:28:33.020 --> 02:28:36.559
been since we soft launched and then officially launched it. Um,
3225
02:28:36.719 --> 02:28:39.100
it's been less than two weeks and there's some great threads, um,
3226
02:28:39.120 --> 02:28:42.780
that you'll learn from and you can join in the conversation. And, um, yeah,
3227
02:28:42.840 --> 02:28:44.930
we just, it's a, it's a nice additional new perk
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02:28:44.950 --> 02:28:50.809
for VIP membership, PW torch, VIP info.com ton of benefits
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02:28:50.829 --> 02:28:53.530
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02:28:53.569 --> 02:28:55.989
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02:28:56.030 --> 02:28:57.670
be bored. You'll always have a place to go. That'll
3232
02:28:57.690 --> 02:29:02.360
feel like, uh, like speaking of workplace sitcoms, cheers, where
3233
02:29:02.379 --> 02:29:06.100
everyone knows your name. Uh, so check it out. Uh, and,
3234
02:29:06.219 --> 02:29:08.520
I'll be by Monday after off, uh, check out the flagship.
3235
02:29:08.540 --> 02:29:09.819
If you haven't yet, our blue logo show on the
3236
02:29:09.840 --> 02:29:11.260
podcast side of things, air coverage.
3237
02:29:11.280 --> 02:29:11.680
Thanks so much.
3238
02:29:11.700 --> 02:29:14.209
Everyone go check out his SmackDown report. Do so every
3239
02:29:14.270 --> 02:29:16.389
Friday and you can check out mine also.
3240
02:29:16.670 --> 02:29:17.909
Uh, thanks again, Eric. We'll talk to you next time.
3241
02:29:18.530 --> 02:29:18.909
Thanks, man.
3242
02:29:19.350 --> 02:29:20.370
You bet. Thanks everybody.
3243
02:29:54.440 --> 02:29:57.620
Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our
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3259
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3260
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3264
02:31:14.469 --> 02:31:17.379
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3266
02:31:19.920 --> 02:31:24.520
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3267
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3270
02:31:31.659 --> 02:31:32.959
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3271
02:31:33.079 --> 02:31:35.520
Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with
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02:31:35.540 --> 02:31:37.620
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3273
02:31:37.680 --> 02:31:40.590
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3274
02:31:40.670 --> 02:31:43.590
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02:31:43.750 --> 02:31:45.950
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3276
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3277
02:31:46.750 --> 02:31:48.549
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3278
02:31:48.590 --> 02:31:50.670
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of course, thank you so much for listening. A PWTorch
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VIP membership doesn't just give you ad-free access to these
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shows and a ton of other VIP-exclusive podcasts throughout the week,
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but you also gain access to our unmatched, vast library
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of wrestling history, our contemporaneous week-to-week coverage through our Pro
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Wrestling Torch weekly newsletters dating back to the late 1980s,
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along with streaming and download access to hundreds of retro
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02:33:50.649 --> 02:33:53.489
radio shows from the 1990s, including some of my interviews
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02:33:53.909 --> 02:33:57.079
with wrestling's top newsmakers in the 90s. And also our
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podcast library dating back to the year 2003. There's no larger,
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longer-spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that that comes with
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a PWTorch VIP membership. Now approaching 20 years of podcasting.
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Go VIP and dive into our post-pay-per-view roundtables, our coverage
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of some of your favorite eras of wrestling, top-name long-form interviews,
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and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. pwtorch.com
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slash govip. We have a streamlined sign-up form, and you
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can pay with PayPal or directly with your credit card
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or debit card in one or two minutes. From right now,
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you can be a VIP member and diving into our library, pwtorch.com
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slash govip.