WKPWP: Interview Classic w/Ex-WWE Creative John Piermarini on how Punk, Orton, Cena feel about The Rock, Michael Cole-Jim Ross dynamic, more

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Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
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Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's interview classic,
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where Wade Keller interviews one of pro wrestling's newsmakers.
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On today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast Interview Classic episode
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for Saturday, September 5th, 2026, we're jumping back just over
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15 years to the August 12th, 2011 episode with ex-WWB
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creative team member John Piermarini. We talked about the final
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hype for SummerSlam on Raw, the fact that only four
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matches had been announced, predictions for the show, and more
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related to the pay-per-view, plus live calls for an hour.
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In the previously VIP exclusive after show, a full half hour,
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We discussed whether there was any sense of real heat
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between WWE regulars like CM Punk, Randy Orton, and John Cena,
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and The Rock, based on the latest comments aimed at
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one another, and also analysis of Jim Ross' return and
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Alex Riley's babyface push. So let's get to it. Again,
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this originally live-streamed on August 12, 2011. Here we go.
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Welcome to the PWTorch Livecast. I am Wade Keller, editor
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and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter since 1987
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and PWTorch.com since 1999. And, of course, the PWTorch apps,
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they're free on iPhone and on Android phones. for the
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last several years, and it is Friday, August 12, 2011.
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We're on the eve-eve of SummerSlam, and it is great
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to introduce my guest co-host for today, John Piermarini, former
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WWE creative team member for almost all of 2009 and 2010,
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and it's been a couple weeks or more than a
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couple weeks since he's been on, so it's great to
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have you back, John.
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Hey, good to be back.
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Thanks, Wade.
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Excellent.
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You're going to actually go to SummerSlam, aren't you?
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Uh, no, I'm not going, but, uh, I, I just was, uh,
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kind of going to be in the area. Yeah, I was,
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I was, I went to the, uh, their, their, uh,
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whatever they call it party last night.
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Oh, how was it? Tell us all about it.
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It was good. It was good to catch up with
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some people that I haven't seen in a while. And, uh, yeah,
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you know, nothing special.
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All right. Who's sleeping with who, who doesn't get along,
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who used to, and who said what behind who's back?
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I already learned from Randy Orton not to say too much.
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All right, very good. Well, I want to encourage everybody
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to call up since we're not going to get any
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of that out of John, but that's understandable and I
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definitely understand. Our phone number here if you want to
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join the show is 646-721-9828. That's 646-721-9828. John has been
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a frequent guest on the show the last several months.
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He did a long Torch Talk with me at the
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beginning of the year shortly after leaving WWE and going
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in-depth on how his booking experience was. And, John, one
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thing that I haven't had a chance to bring up
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to you, but I want to before we get to
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phone calls, is what about the new writing structure? And
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I don't know how familiar you are with it, but
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we've talked about it here on the show, that you've
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got Vince on top, Triple H and Steph kind of
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hovering right there with Kevin Dunn, you know, kind of
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a veto idea person. And then under him is now
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a showrunner. And then in the mix are Michael Hayes
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and Brian Gewirtz elevated to some new positions. And then
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you've got Kapoor and Kosky elevated to head writer. And
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then you have a writing staff, and I think it's
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up to about two dozen people, including Kevin Eckford, the
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Baltimore Sun, just added this week to the writing team.
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Does that structure and all the latest in the last
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couple weeks on that make you think they've addressed some
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problems that you experienced while you were there for two years,
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or just added layers of bureaucracy that are going to
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make it more difficult for good ideas to get through,
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or option C of your choice?
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I mean, I think that's way, way too many people.
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You said that there's two dozen people there now?
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Yeah.
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Wow.
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To be honest, I don't think it really matters how
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many people you bring in or how little people you
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bring in. It's the people that they have in certain
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positions that are the problem.
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Yeah.
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In the way you broke it down and I don't
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know how things have changed but you know Stephanie was
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always someone that I know before me she was a
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little bit more involved but She was never too hands-on
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with the creative. I know that she would chime in
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or be part of the meetings with Vince, but she
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was never giving orders or anything from a creative standpoint.
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And then Triple H, and again, things may have changed,
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but Triple H was more of a guy who would
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give his input in the production meetings on Monday. I'm
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sure by now he's probably in the creative meetings with
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Vince on Friday. which I'm sure they're probably in there
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right now still waiting for him to come in.
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But I don't know.
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I don't think really too much is going to change.
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I think that it's great that someone like Dave Kapoor,
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who I worked closely with, and I think that he
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does have a different mindset from Brian, although I think
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that his mindset is also structured around what Brian wants.
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So I think that if they can address that situation,
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it doesn't matter if they have 40 writers or three.
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If Brian's there, it's going to be the same thing.
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Yeah. And where we come up with close to two
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dozen is Vince Steff, the showrunner. Gowertz, Hayes, Kapoor, and Koski,
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that's eight people, all kind of involved in the process.
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And then how many people when you were there were, quote,
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under Brian on the Raw team or under Michael on
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the SmackDown team? How many writers, assistant writers, kind of
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the entry level and two assistant to Gowertz-type levels were
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there for each show?
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When I first came in on Raw, it was Gowertz, Kapoor,
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one other writer and myself, and then that writer left.
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Then we got an assistant on Raw, and then a
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new guy came in, and then he was there for
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about three months. And then so essentially it was me,
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so it was Brian, Dave, me, and an assistant. And
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then on SmackDown, it was Michael, and then they had
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Krista Joseph, uh, under him. And then it was, uh,
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another writer and assistant. And then towards like my last
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three months there, they brought in another writer. So they had,
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they had five. And at one point they had six
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cause they transitioned the, uh, the guy that when I
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first came in, that was on raw over to SmackDown.
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So they had six guys. And, uh, so that would
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be what, 10, uh, 10 total, and then you had Ed,
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and then whoever he had with him on ECW and
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then NXT. So like 12 people.
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Yeah, so I mean, that's a lot of people. Are
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each of those people in that structure working 40 hours
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a week? And if so, what the hell are they doing?
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They're working like 80 hours a week.
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What are they doing with that time? I mean, in
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all honesty... we see the TV shows and I'm not,
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I'm in no way trying to diminish the art and
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craft and the, and the heart and the elbow grease
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that goes into writing a show, but everybody working. And
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then at the end, it doesn't really end up on
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the show. Is that part of the process? Yeah, pretty much.
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I mean, you spend, I mean, I remember, uh, I
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would come up with– so we'd fly home on Wednesday,
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and then the first thing that we would have to
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do is come up with our segments for the next
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week's show. And, you know, you would write those out.
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You'd spend a day doing that, and then you'd sit
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down with– each team would sit down. So I'd sit
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down with Brian and Kapoor and our assistant, and we
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would pitch our ideas to each other. And then sometimes
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it was– I mean, majority of the time it was
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Brian saying, well, we're going to go with what I have,
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but we still need.
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This, this, and this.
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So let's go back to the drawing board and come
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up with what we can do for these three remaining segments.
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uh and then you spend time doing that but then
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brian already has his idea on what he wants to
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do and then you got to come up with what
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what we're going to do at the pay-per-view there's times
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you know you spend a lot of time writing the
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rough draft of the script and then the uh the
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updated versions of it um Me, I would spend time
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trying to come up with specific storylines, long-term storylines for guys,
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trying to build guys like, at the time, Swagger, DiBiase,
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guys like that. Or if we had big, you know,
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like the summer story, if it was, you know, who
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took out Undertaker or John Cena joined Nexus or, you know,
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you spend a lot of time coming up with ideas
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for that and, you know.
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I don't want to say it goes completely ignored, but
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it gets pretty close to that. And then I know
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that on ECW and NXT, I know it was two
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writers on it, but for the majority of the time
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it was just Ed writing the show, Ed Koski, and
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then SmackDown was more of a team effort where they
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would literally sit down and everyone would pitch their idea
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and Michael would sit at the head of the table
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and he'd go, I like that, I like that, I
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like that, I like that, I don't like that, here's
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why we can't do that. And then he'd say, okay,
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Vince wants us to incorporate this or do this in
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the show. Or I talked to Undertaker and here's kind
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of the idea that we have for him. And that
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was more of a team effort. And I think that
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at that time, SmackDown.
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Was better than Raw.
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Yeah.
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But now it's just a bigger version of ECW and NXT.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Not NXT, obviously, because it's a whole different structure. But James,
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it's the same formulaic show.
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Yep.
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Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our
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shows commercial-free. A nice streamlined listening experience. pwtorch.com slash govip
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You're shifting gears just to current events. SummerSlam's coming up.
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Do you think, have you been able to keep up
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on Raw the last couple weeks? Yeah, what's your... What's
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your take on the kind of final sales pitch at
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the end of Raw, the long overrun with Hunter standing
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over Cena and Punk arguing at the table with Laurinaitis
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standing there too? What kind of grade do you give
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that segment? What did you like and what did you
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not like about it?
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I can't necessarily remember exact details to kind of really
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break it down, but I remember liking the segment. I mean,
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the first thing that I thought of going back into
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the show a little bit was, I really felt like
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they were going to do a Cena heel turn at SummerSlam,
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which I'm kind of going away from and just watching
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how the show ended. Because, you know, like I've told
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you before, you can't overthink WWE creative. It just looked
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like they were setting you up to believe that Triple
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H doesn't want Punk with the title. And I think
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that when it comes down to it on Sunday, I
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think Triple H is going to turn heel. I think
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he's going to help CM Punk win. And I think
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that they're going to reveal that this was the plan
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all along to bring Punk back and get Vince out.
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But the segment itself, I liked it because you know what?
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I know that you've talked about you can't always kind
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of do this, oh my gosh, holy crap moments, which
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I don't think there was a holy crap moment in there.
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But I think that when Punk is on the microphone,
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I think you wonder what's going to happen.
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And I truly believe.
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The one thing that I picked up in that segment,
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and I was actually talking to some people about it
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last night, was I really felt like that was just
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kind of, let's all go out there. Here's the direction
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that we're going to go. And I don't think that
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anybody knew what the other person was going to say
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outside of, this is what we're going to talk about
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and get to. Because it really looked like John Cena
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was speechless. I really think that he was put in
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his place from a promo standpoint where I always kind
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of felt like John Cena was given too much credit
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for his ability to cut promos because I think that
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any promo that he was in before, he led the
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entire segment. And he was able to say what he
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wanted to say and not necessarily, not him personally, but
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whoever he was in the ring with talking didn't really
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have a chance to overshadow him. And I think Miz
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kind of did a little bit when they had their thing. But,
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I mean, I just think that Punk just showed that
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he's head and shoulders above Cena, even Triple H. I
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think Triple H would be able to hold his own
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in there. And it just was exciting to watch. And
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I couldn't be wrong, but it was exciting to watch
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because I really felt like you didn't know who was
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going to say what. And I really felt like they
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00:15:19.230 --> 00:15:21.289
were kind of going off of the reaction of what
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the other person said.
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And....
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It was interesting to see that Punk stood tall with
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those two guys in there. And that says a lot,
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I think.
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Do you think that segment made it more likely for
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CM Punk fans to want to order SummerSlam? And do
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00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:40.639
you think that segment made it more likely for John
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00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:43.220
Cena fans to feel like they had to order SummerSlam
293
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to see the match? Do you think the net effect
294
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of that segment and just kind of the general promotion
295
00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:51.539
the last few weeks will make SummerSlam a successful show?
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Or do you think that there's some flaws, even within
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00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:56.919
the entertaining aspects of the segment, that might make it
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00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:59.750
mediocre or disappointing? And it's an open-ended question in that regard.
299
00:16:00.500 --> 00:16:04.379
Yeah, I think that maybe the John Cena fans probably
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00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:06.960
are excited about this to see if he can walk
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00:16:07.019 --> 00:16:14.440
away with the title. I think that they did a
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00:16:14.500 --> 00:16:16.710
better job than they have in the past in making
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a rematch mean something and kind of add some excitement
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00:16:20.230 --> 00:16:24.909
to it, but I still feel like they've been putting
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00:16:24.950 --> 00:16:28.389
a lot of emphasis lately on something being on the line,
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00:16:28.429 --> 00:16:31.029
whether it's John Cena's job or CM Punk leaving, that
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00:16:31.090 --> 00:16:33.750
this one is just kind of a little bit like, eh,
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all right, well, if Punk loses, we know he's there.
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If Cena loses, all right, well, you know, he's not
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going to get fired or there's no consequence. So I
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00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:44.899
guess we'll see who ends up with it. I think
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00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:49.399
they should have put more on, and they dabbled in
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00:16:49.419 --> 00:16:52.450
a little bit, but with Triple H kind of saying,
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you know, whoever leaves is who I decide should leave
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with the title. And I don't think they really pushed that.
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00:16:58.429 --> 00:17:01.620
I think they just kind of made it more so about, oh,
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00:17:01.659 --> 00:17:04.180
Triple H is the guest referee, and he thinks he's
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going to be the only one that can decide who
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00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:08.789
the one champion is. But I think it should have
320
00:17:08.829 --> 00:17:11.369
been more so, I'm going to decide who I think
321
00:17:11.410 --> 00:17:13.809
the champion is going to be. And I think that
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00:17:13.829 --> 00:17:16.369
would have added more intrigue, because I think you have
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00:17:16.410 --> 00:17:20.589
the general audience going into it going, well, Triple H
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00:17:20.589 --> 00:17:22.789
is going to make sure somebody wins, as opposed to,
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00:17:23.150 --> 00:17:25.930
I wonder who he's going to pick, because this is
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00:17:25.990 --> 00:17:28.470
essentially his champion going forward.
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Very good, very good. I could talk to you, and
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00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:36.099
next thing I'll look up and the show's over. So
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00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:38.519
why don't we start in on phone calls, and let
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00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:40.279
callers lead the way, and I'll just kind of make
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some notes here on other things I want to get to,
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which we can get to live during the show or
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hopefully a few minutes afterwards in the after show. Let's
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begin with area code 931. You've been on hold almost
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a half hour already. Thanks for calling in early and
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00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:54.299
being the first caller. What's on your mind today? Please
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00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:55.559
state your name and where you're from, first of all.
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00:17:57.220 --> 00:17:58.460
Hey, it's Ian from Tennessee.
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00:17:58.680 --> 00:17:59.009
Hey, Ian.
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00:18:01.829 --> 00:18:05.500
Well, I heard about they're starting this remote radio thing
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00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:08.819
for anybody that goes to the pay-per-views to hear the commentary.
342
00:18:08.980 --> 00:18:09.140
Yep.
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00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:12.819
And my question was, so do they really think the
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commentary is actually good?
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00:18:16.029 --> 00:18:18.089
I think they see a way to make $ 15 extra
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per head on some people buying an 89-cent FM antenna,
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00:18:22.829 --> 00:18:25.410
and they get to simulcast what Ross and Cole and
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00:18:25.430 --> 00:18:29.259
whoever else, Lawler, Booker, are saying. John, what do you
349
00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:31.619
think of that concept? I mean, I don't think it's
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00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:33.660
going to– I think if everyone was listening on headsets,
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00:18:33.769 --> 00:18:35.930
it would quiet the arena because people would be less
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00:18:35.970 --> 00:18:37.829
likely to respond because they want to listen to commentary.
353
00:18:38.170 --> 00:18:39.529
But I don't think it's going to be that many
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00:18:39.569 --> 00:18:42.329
people who do it. But what's your kind of gut
355
00:18:42.369 --> 00:18:45.269
reaction to the idea that they're introducing radio simulcasts for
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00:18:45.309 --> 00:18:47.299
people in the building to listen to the commentators?
357
00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:50.380
What you said is the first thing I thought of is,
358
00:18:50.579 --> 00:18:53.519
wouldn't most people be paying attention to the commentary as
359
00:18:53.579 --> 00:18:57.730
opposed to kind of reacting to what's happening in the ring? But,
360
00:18:58.390 --> 00:18:59.710
I mean, I guess it's kind of like when you
361
00:18:59.740 --> 00:19:02.279
go to baseball games, you have that group of people
362
00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:05.380
that are always got their headphones in and they're listening to,
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00:19:05.900 --> 00:19:10.460
you know, the radio station to hear the thing. But
364
00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:13.559
I don't know. I guess I think someone probably came
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00:19:13.579 --> 00:19:15.980
to them with the idea and they said that's a
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00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:18.759
good way to make $ 15, so let's do it. But
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00:19:18.779 --> 00:19:20.440
I think it's going to bring down some of the
368
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:23.019
vibe in the show because I think that's part of,
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00:19:23.529 --> 00:19:26.400
what the people that, although when you're at the arena, yeah,
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00:19:26.420 --> 00:19:28.680
you miss out on the commentary, but you actually get
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00:19:28.700 --> 00:19:30.799
to feel something that the people at home don't get
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00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:31.180
to feel.
373
00:19:31.740 --> 00:19:34.539
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I was a Vikings season
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00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:36.839
ticket holder for a number of years during the Randy Moss,
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00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:43.289
Dante Culpepper, Randall Cunningham era, and it was great. But
376
00:19:43.309 --> 00:19:46.869
I wanted reception in my seats to hear, you know,
377
00:19:46.890 --> 00:19:50.099
the analysts talk about replays of, of you know what
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00:19:50.140 --> 00:19:52.480
what the replay was and what their opinion was and
379
00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:54.380
what in what an injury update and that kind of
380
00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:56.670
thing but it didn't stop me from cheering for the
381
00:19:56.690 --> 00:19:58.390
vikings when there was a touchdown or doing that kind
382
00:19:58.410 --> 00:20:00.769
of thing um but i do wonder how the wrestling
383
00:20:00.809 --> 00:20:04.609
crowd would react react to that um it is weird
384
00:20:04.690 --> 00:20:07.589
it's one of those it's one of those kind of
385
00:20:07.809 --> 00:20:10.759
gimmicks that if it's too successful, it'll actually hurt the product.
386
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:14.200
You know, if everybody does it, it won't work. So,
387
00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:16.559
I mean, the idea now is, well, not everybody's going
388
00:20:16.579 --> 00:20:23.789
to do it, you know, obviously. So anyway, Ian, anything else?
389
00:20:23.829 --> 00:20:24.490
I'm sorry, John, go ahead.
390
00:20:25.170 --> 00:20:27.859
I'm sure they'll test it, and they'll probably, if they feel,
391
00:20:27.910 --> 00:20:30.299
I mean, they have a pulse on what crowds are
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00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:32.680
hot and what crowds aren't. And I think if they
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00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:34.680
go to one that they're expecting more out of and
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00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:37.380
they feel like that could be the reason, they'll just
395
00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:40.890
not do it either at those arenas or just in general.
396
00:20:40.910 --> 00:20:42.630
I think it would be interesting to do it at
397
00:20:42.690 --> 00:20:46.829
house shows. And that would mean having to bring... you know,
398
00:20:47.730 --> 00:20:49.950
one of the B announcers or C announcers on the road,
399
00:20:50.509 --> 00:20:52.910
and have them sit there, and even a color commentator too,
400
00:20:52.930 --> 00:20:55.519
but do commentary and sell the headsets at house shows
401
00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:58.619
and do running commentary. It's so weird that there's people,
402
00:20:58.740 --> 00:20:59.980
when they get to the show, and I've heard this
403
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:02.160
many times, people watch it on TV so much and
404
00:21:02.180 --> 00:21:04.599
they can't, for the first time in their life, when
405
00:21:04.619 --> 00:21:07.630
you attend a live show, for the first time, it's
406
00:21:07.710 --> 00:21:10.089
the first time you've ever seen a wrestling match without
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00:21:10.130 --> 00:21:12.170
commentary telling you what to think and what's going on
408
00:21:12.190 --> 00:21:15.690
and distracting you. And everybody experiences that once. Some don't
409
00:21:15.710 --> 00:21:17.470
think about it ahead of time, and others do. But
410
00:21:17.490 --> 00:21:19.390
it's kind of fascinating to take someone to a show
411
00:21:19.410 --> 00:21:21.839
for the first time, and I've done that, and they're like, wait,
412
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:23.039
where's the commentary?
413
00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:24.579
Yeah, it's weird.
414
00:21:25.059 --> 00:21:25.680
Yeah, yeah.
415
00:21:27.529 --> 00:21:29.630
Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti when he co-hosts with
416
00:21:29.670 --> 00:21:31.420
me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, now you
417
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:33.720
can listen to him every week on the Nicky's Club,
418
00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:36.819
a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more.
419
00:21:36.940 --> 00:21:39.380
Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with
420
00:21:39.400 --> 00:21:41.480
the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's
421
00:21:41.539 --> 00:21:44.440
comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE.
422
00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:47.450
From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered.
423
00:21:47.609 --> 00:21:49.809
The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest
424
00:21:49.829 --> 00:21:50.349
club in town.
425
00:21:50.609 --> 00:21:52.410
Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling
426
00:21:52.450 --> 00:21:56.769
life every week, so why not let him? GoVIP. PWTorch.com
427
00:21:57.069 --> 00:21:59.970
slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible
428
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with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other
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iOS or Android app out there. You can also stream
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00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:08.480
directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club, waiting
431
00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:11.059
for you every week at PWTorch VIP.
432
00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:14.059
Anyway, Ian, anything else for us?
433
00:22:16.150 --> 00:22:18.869
Yeah, from reading the description, it almost made it sound
434
00:22:18.910 --> 00:22:20.950
like SummerSlam is going to be a five-man booth.
435
00:22:21.450 --> 00:22:22.190
I really hope not.
436
00:22:22.289 --> 00:22:22.890
I know.
437
00:22:24.410 --> 00:22:28.630
My other question is, after seeing Sheamus on Conan last
438
00:22:28.690 --> 00:22:33.970
night and The Miz do various talk show appearances, it
439
00:22:34.009 --> 00:22:36.970
seems like these newer guys that are getting to go
440
00:22:37.029 --> 00:22:38.930
out there and do stuff like that have a more
441
00:22:39.009 --> 00:22:42.970
personable demeanor than John Cena and even really Randy Orton
442
00:22:42.990 --> 00:22:45.150
when he goes out there. I wanted to get your
443
00:22:45.190 --> 00:22:45.710
thoughts on that.
444
00:22:46.170 --> 00:22:49.529
Well, I would think for sure you would think almost
445
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:51.299
anybody's better than Randy Orton on a talk show. It
446
00:22:51.339 --> 00:22:54.180
just doesn't seem like Randy Orton's comfort zone. But I
447
00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:57.059
think John Cena's been good. But Sheamus is just, I mean,
448
00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:00.119
seems like the nicest guy in the world. When he's
449
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:01.740
a babyface, I think he's going to come across as
450
00:23:01.819 --> 00:23:04.910
really engaging. And Miz, obviously, is just a character. I mean,
451
00:23:04.930 --> 00:23:06.650
he's a ham, and he can talk, and he can
452
00:23:06.670 --> 00:23:09.349
be entertaining. So Sheamus and Miz are two people, John,
453
00:23:09.369 --> 00:23:12.009
that I think if all of a sudden, you know,
454
00:23:12.769 --> 00:23:15.490
John Cena and Randy Orton ended up, you know, whatever
455
00:23:15.529 --> 00:23:16.789
happens where they're not on top. I don't want to
456
00:23:16.809 --> 00:23:18.609
come up with these morbid scenarios. But for whatever reason,
457
00:23:18.630 --> 00:23:20.509
they're not on top. Or they decide to retire. They
458
00:23:20.529 --> 00:23:23.549
just lose the– I think Sheamus and Miz are near
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00:23:23.589 --> 00:23:25.750
the top, along with a few others, of people that
460
00:23:25.809 --> 00:23:28.690
Vince McMahon probably would have good reason to trust being
461
00:23:29.049 --> 00:23:31.430
the top guys. I mean, it's not a– there's not
462
00:23:31.470 --> 00:23:33.490
an obvious list, but I think Sheamus is starting to
463
00:23:33.529 --> 00:23:34.789
show he's one of those guys.
464
00:23:36.009 --> 00:23:38.650
Yeah, they've been high on Sheamus from the day that
465
00:23:38.690 --> 00:23:43.319
we brought him up from– from ECW to come to
466
00:23:43.380 --> 00:23:47.319
Raw and essentially put him immediately in the main event picture.
467
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:49.900
So I think that what happened is I think that
468
00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:53.920
when he got that demotion, I think that was them
469
00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:56.160
just kind of, you know, letting him know it's not
470
00:23:56.220 --> 00:24:00.789
always going to be, you know, main events and all that.
471
00:24:00.809 --> 00:24:03.490
And for whatever reason, they felt like he needed to
472
00:24:03.950 --> 00:24:08.039
realize that. And I think that he learned whatever he
473
00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:11.059
needed to learn. And I think that he's– look, it's
474
00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:13.279
not a mistake, the guys that they send out on
475
00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:16.720
TV shows. It's not that they would be surprised that
476
00:24:16.769 --> 00:24:20.410
Sheamus or Miz or anybody would be great on a
477
00:24:20.430 --> 00:24:22.569
talk show. I mean, they know who's going to do what,
478
00:24:22.910 --> 00:24:24.529
how they're going to do, and that's how they choose
479
00:24:24.569 --> 00:24:27.049
the people that go on there. But I think you're right.
480
00:24:27.069 --> 00:24:30.670
I think Sheamus, as a babyface, will really come through,
481
00:24:30.710 --> 00:24:32.500
and I think people will really be able to connect
482
00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:32.779
with him.
483
00:24:35.500 --> 00:24:37.279
Ian, anything else for us?
484
00:24:38.980 --> 00:24:39.619
That's it, guys.
485
00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:40.920
Have a good weekend.
486
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:41.200
Great.
487
00:24:41.220 --> 00:24:43.859
Appreciate it, Ian. Thanks a lot. All right, let's move
488
00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:45.099
on to our next call. If you want to get
489
00:24:45.140 --> 00:24:48.920
in line here on the phone banks, the number is 646-721-9828, 646-721-9828.
490
00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:54.559
We've got six people on hold wanting to talk, so
491
00:24:54.579 --> 00:24:56.299
you can be seventh in line if you call right now.
492
00:24:56.380 --> 00:24:57.779
And if you want to be on the show, I
493
00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:00.069
would call soon and not wait because the line might
494
00:25:00.109 --> 00:25:02.000
get longer as the show progresses. By the way, the
495
00:25:02.019 --> 00:25:04.420
chat room is now open. I really apologize to the
496
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:08.210
chat room regulars for letting that slip my mind. I
497
00:25:08.230 --> 00:25:10.150
need like eight people who are chat room regulars to
498
00:25:10.230 --> 00:25:12.809
email me, like at the start of the show, and
499
00:25:12.829 --> 00:25:14.930
just say chat room, eight exclamation points to make sure
500
00:25:14.950 --> 00:25:18.809
I remember. Then it would be hard to ignore. All right,
501
00:25:18.869 --> 00:25:22.019
let's go to caller number two. Area code 202. You've
502
00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:23.920
been holding a half hour or two. Thanks for calling.
503
00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:24.980
Please state your name and where you're from.
504
00:25:27.099 --> 00:25:28.799
Hi, this is Anthony from Washington, D.C.
505
00:25:29.059 --> 00:25:31.079
Hey, Anthony, what's on your mind today? What's your question
506
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:31.299
for us?
507
00:25:33.190 --> 00:25:37.670
Well, one is a comment, and I've got two questions.
508
00:25:38.589 --> 00:25:43.710
My comment is I see how they, like, you know,
509
00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:47.400
like cutting down on, like, the minimum amount of matches
510
00:25:47.420 --> 00:25:49.180
that they are putting on the pay-per-views. I mean, because
511
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:53.119
right now there's advertising for matches, and, you know, SummerSlam
512
00:25:53.140 --> 00:25:55.400
has never been like that. And I just, you know,
513
00:25:55.420 --> 00:25:58.480
want to know what you thought about that. And second
514
00:25:58.529 --> 00:26:01.890
question is what is the structure for the WWE as
515
00:26:01.970 --> 00:26:05.910
far as, like, scouting, like, you know, untapped talent from
516
00:26:05.930 --> 00:26:08.450
the indies and stuff? Do they have, like, a scout team?
517
00:26:08.589 --> 00:26:10.930
Can you tell me what the structure is? And the
518
00:26:10.990 --> 00:26:14.619
third thing is, over and under, do you think TNA
519
00:26:14.660 --> 00:26:16.380
will be around here next year around this time?
520
00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:18.400
I do think TNA will be around in a year.
521
00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:19.339
Okay.
522
00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:21.400
For sure. I think, well, I shouldn't say for sure.
523
00:26:22.140 --> 00:26:23.460
I for sure think they will be, but they won't
524
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:27.960
for sure be around. The Jimmy Yang check bouncing story
525
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:30.869
today from Destination X that he didn't get paid and
526
00:26:31.589 --> 00:26:33.670
His first check bounced. I mean, that's a little ominous,
527
00:26:33.690 --> 00:26:35.589
but that could also be clerical error. It wouldn't be
528
00:26:35.609 --> 00:26:38.930
beyond TNA's front office, given their reputation, to maybe be
529
00:26:38.950 --> 00:26:41.859
a little off on that, especially if he's not a regular.
530
00:26:43.160 --> 00:26:44.940
But I think they'll be around. John, quick answer on
531
00:26:44.980 --> 00:26:45.980
that before we get to the other part.
532
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:51.140
I missed his, was it, is TNA going.
533
00:26:51.019 --> 00:26:53.069
To be around here? Yeah, do you think TNA, just
534
00:26:53.109 --> 00:26:54.549
real simple, do you think they'll be around here from now?
535
00:26:55.410 --> 00:26:55.839
Probably.
536
00:26:55.890 --> 00:26:57.740
I mean, it seems like Spike is the one that's
537
00:26:57.779 --> 00:27:00.500
keeping them afloat, so as long as they are giving
538
00:27:00.539 --> 00:27:02.380
Spike what they want, I think they'll be all right.
539
00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:06.420
Yeah, I do too. I mean, there's nothing really that
540
00:27:06.460 --> 00:27:09.589
would threaten that. I mean, UFC might leave Spike. Spike's
541
00:27:09.609 --> 00:27:11.130
going to want them even more. Spike just announced, I
542
00:27:11.269 --> 00:27:15.569
think it's three or four new reality series. um, that
543
00:27:15.589 --> 00:27:17.089
are in the works and are going to be on
544
00:27:17.109 --> 00:27:20.809
the schedule coming up that star, you know, unique people
545
00:27:20.869 --> 00:27:24.069
who have people who have interesting real backgrounds in a
546
00:27:24.089 --> 00:27:27.049
reality TV situation. And I just glossed at the, at
547
00:27:27.069 --> 00:27:30.200
the formats, but they're definitely moving in that direction away
548
00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:34.099
from the network for men and more towards a reality
549
00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:37.019
show based network. And I think, you know, pro wrestling
550
00:27:37.059 --> 00:27:39.519
fits well enough with that, that I wouldn't think you
551
00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:42.059
spike would go. We need to get rid of them. Um,
552
00:27:43.250 --> 00:27:44.630
And I think USA has kind of led the way
553
00:27:44.670 --> 00:27:48.829
for Spike in saying we're the network where characters are
554
00:27:48.849 --> 00:27:52.549
welcome and WWE is about blue skies and John Cena.
555
00:27:53.089 --> 00:27:56.410
And so I think Spike TV can go, yeah, we
556
00:27:56.450 --> 00:27:59.670
can make this network about Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff,
557
00:27:59.869 --> 00:28:04.049
our TV show, or whoever is starring that week. And
558
00:28:04.089 --> 00:28:05.750
speaking of TNA, just a quick note because I just
559
00:28:05.769 --> 00:28:08.529
got the ratings in a second. They did a 1.07 rating.
560
00:28:08.970 --> 00:28:12.839
That is the lowest rating since June 9th. and you
561
00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:17.019
have to go back to, wow, you have to go
562
00:28:17.059 --> 00:28:20.839
back to December 23rd, Christmas Eve Eve, to find a
563
00:28:20.900 --> 00:28:24.559
rating that matches that low point, and December 2nd to
564
00:28:24.619 --> 00:28:30.890
find another rating lower than that. That's pretty rough. Granted,
565
00:28:30.910 --> 00:28:32.809
we're talking about hundredths of a point difference here, and
566
00:28:32.869 --> 00:28:34.569
within the margin of error, I mean, I don't think
567
00:28:34.589 --> 00:28:36.309
we should write any headline stories about the demise of
568
00:28:36.349 --> 00:28:38.559
impact from that, but it is the second lowest rating
569
00:28:38.599 --> 00:28:40.819
of the year. and they were up against the NBA
570
00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:44.480
playoffs on June 9th when they drew the 1.02. So
571
00:28:44.519 --> 00:28:47.980
that's bad. But it was Jersey Shore's second new episode
572
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:52.039
of the season, and that drew $ 7. 3 million. The Republican
573
00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:55.650
debate on Fox actually drew $ 5 million, and ESPN's preseason
574
00:28:55.670 --> 00:28:58.690
football drew about $ 4. 9 million. So there was a lot
575
00:29:00.529 --> 00:29:03.289
more competition than usual for that show than it's used
576
00:29:03.329 --> 00:29:06.599
to getting. That's kind of special event television. But, boy,
577
00:29:06.740 --> 00:29:08.839
it shows that they don't have a high stickiness factor
578
00:29:08.859 --> 00:29:11.920
with their viewers, that a certain number of viewers, and, again,
579
00:29:11.940 --> 00:29:13.380
we're talking about hundreds of a point here, but they
580
00:29:13.420 --> 00:29:18.259
were at 1.25 just four weeks ago. They've lost 20%
581
00:29:18.259 --> 00:29:21.000
of their viewership, almost 10% to 20% of their viewership
582
00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:23.769
in a month that's willing to watch something else when
583
00:29:23.869 --> 00:29:25.849
something else is on. And when you're doing a really
584
00:29:25.890 --> 00:29:28.849
hot product, you just don't see that as much. So, anyway,
585
00:29:28.890 --> 00:29:32.230
just wanted to get that in there, breaking news item
586
00:29:32.329 --> 00:29:37.200
coming in. Anthony your first question scouting talent I'll throw
587
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:38.829
to John on that I know Gerald Briscoe has a
588
00:29:38.869 --> 00:29:40.440
role in that do you want to talk about the
589
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:43.319
the scouting of talent and and really even if the
590
00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:45.039
writers have much of a role in scouting what's going
591
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:47.440
on in fcw or do you ever have a chance
592
00:29:47.460 --> 00:29:50.000
to look at indie tapes or recommend any wrestlers and
593
00:29:50.059 --> 00:29:50.900
and who is in charge of.
594
00:29:50.859 --> 00:29:54.720
That uh you know i honestly don't know the the
595
00:29:54.740 --> 00:29:57.710
details of the structure i know that they have Like
596
00:29:57.750 --> 00:30:00.579
I know you said, Gerald Briscoe, I know that he's involved.
597
00:30:00.779 --> 00:30:04.640
I know that Laranitis is involved. I know that they
598
00:30:04.660 --> 00:30:07.680
got some people in talent relations that, you know, the
599
00:30:07.900 --> 00:30:10.180
thing is, I think that their problem is that I
600
00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:13.309
don't think that they're super involved in that. I think
601
00:30:13.349 --> 00:30:15.730
that they leave a lot of it open to, hey,
602
00:30:15.769 --> 00:30:20.170
come to SCW and try out or send us tapes.
603
00:30:21.009 --> 00:30:23.750
I don't remember too many times. I mean, I remember when.
604
00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:31.099
We hired, what was his name, Tyler Black. And it was, yeah, he,
605
00:30:31.140 --> 00:30:33.960
you know, sent us something. We looked at it. He's
606
00:30:33.980 --> 00:30:37.569
been calling us. And so we're going to sign him.
607
00:30:37.750 --> 00:30:40.009
What do you guys think? And then, you know, Laranitis
608
00:30:40.049 --> 00:30:42.730
walks into the writer's room. We give our opinion on
609
00:30:42.750 --> 00:30:45.980
him or he'll throw us a DVD and we'll watch it.
610
00:30:46.109 --> 00:30:48.509
We'll give him feedback or we'll get an email. Hey,
611
00:30:48.529 --> 00:30:50.450
I'm thinking about bringing this guy in. What do you think?
612
00:30:51.539 --> 00:30:55.410
I never really dove too far into that aspect of it.
613
00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:57.369
Not so much that I didn't care about how they
614
00:30:57.380 --> 00:31:00.849
were getting talent, but it just was, I don't know,
615
00:31:00.869 --> 00:31:02.569
I guess it was something that I wasn't all that
616
00:31:02.589 --> 00:31:06.470
concerned about. But I think that they need to be
617
00:31:06.509 --> 00:31:11.140
more active in going out and finding these high school
618
00:31:11.180 --> 00:31:15.440
kids or, uh, you know, college wrestlers or, um, you know,
619
00:31:15.819 --> 00:31:17.279
because the problem is you're going to get all these
620
00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:19.680
people that want to go into MMA. And I think
621
00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:21.420
that if you can kind of show them that they
622
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:25.660
could become just as big of celebrities, not put as
623
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:29.759
much sort of, uh, damage on their bodies, although you're
624
00:31:29.779 --> 00:31:33.789
still going to get some, um, and, you know, compare
625
00:31:33.869 --> 00:31:35.829
the pay scales and cause you know what, to be
626
00:31:35.869 --> 00:31:40.049
perfectly honest, I, I, I don't really know how they compare, but,
627
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:42.500
you know, to, to sit here and say, I can
628
00:31:42.539 --> 00:31:47.220
guarantee you X amount of dollars as a downside compared
629
00:31:47.259 --> 00:31:50.240
to you go into UFC with your first fight with
630
00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:54.359
no fanfare, you're going to make 15 grand, 25 grand. Uh,
631
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:55.940
and if you lose, then you're out.
632
00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:59.240
Uh, uh, so I don't know.
633
00:31:59.259 --> 00:32:00.960
I think that there's, I think that there could be
634
00:32:01.009 --> 00:32:02.900
a structure. I think they should even do something where
635
00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:07.970
maybe they could start giving away, um, scholarships, college scholarships to,
636
00:32:08.089 --> 00:32:11.490
to guys that they're scouting and, And I don't know
637
00:32:11.690 --> 00:32:14.000
if you could sign somebody based off that or if
638
00:32:14.180 --> 00:32:16.539
that's just something that you kind of keep them within
639
00:32:16.579 --> 00:32:17.859
the family or something like that.
640
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:19.480
But I don't know.
641
00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:21.380
I wish I could answer that question in better detail.
642
00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:25.019
But I think most of it, from my experience, is
643
00:32:25.099 --> 00:32:29.049
the majority of it is people pursuing us for a
644
00:32:29.089 --> 00:32:32.910
job or coming to FCW tryouts.
645
00:32:34.089 --> 00:32:34.730
Yep, yep.
646
00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:39.910
Did you know that you can enjoy commercial-free versions of
647
00:32:40.109 --> 00:32:42.630
all of your favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PWTorch daily
648
00:32:42.650 --> 00:32:47.529
casts on Spotify? Just go to patreon.com, search PWTorch, and
649
00:32:47.569 --> 00:32:50.619
subscribe to a VIP membership tier. You get a seven-day
650
00:32:50.660 --> 00:32:52.619
free trial, by the way, to kick the tires a
651
00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:54.859
bit and see if you like the service. And then
652
00:32:54.980 --> 00:32:57.220
sync it with Spotify, and you can listen to commercial-free
653
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654
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655
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656
00:33:06.450 --> 00:33:09.609
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657
00:33:09.829 --> 00:33:12.690
all the VIP podcasts, including Everything with Rich and Wade,
658
00:33:12.710 --> 00:33:14.309
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659
00:33:14.329 --> 00:33:18.710
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660
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661
00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:26.299
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663
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:33.359
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664
00:33:33.400 --> 00:33:36.319
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665
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:41.700
Very good. Anthony, anything else?
666
00:33:42.019 --> 00:33:44.589
Just what is your thought on the opinion that I
667
00:33:44.630 --> 00:33:48.190
said about how they like downsized in the pay-per-view? Like SummerSlam,
668
00:33:48.509 --> 00:33:50.589
you know, they advertised as four matches.
669
00:33:50.609 --> 00:33:50.849
Oh, right.
670
00:33:51.130 --> 00:33:53.789
Is that a trend or, you know?
671
00:33:54.289 --> 00:33:55.170
Yeah, good, good question.
672
00:33:55.210 --> 00:33:56.579
That's actually a really good topic to bring up. I'm
673
00:33:56.619 --> 00:33:58.880
glad you brought that up, Anthony. Do you ever remember
674
00:33:58.900 --> 00:34:01.640
a situation, John, where you were going into a pay-per-view
675
00:34:01.660 --> 00:34:05.000
and on the final Raw, and the announcers talked about
676
00:34:05.019 --> 00:34:07.779
the lineup, and they had four matches to talk about,
677
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:10.699
grand total, one of which was a Divas match, and
678
00:34:10.739 --> 00:34:14.780
another is a SmackDown non-title feud, Sheamus and Mark Henry.
679
00:34:15.610 --> 00:34:18.449
Do you remember a pay-per-view of just four matches, and
680
00:34:18.630 --> 00:34:20.429
what do you think happened that led to this?
681
00:34:22.949 --> 00:34:25.070
No, I don't remember anything like that off the top
682
00:34:25.090 --> 00:34:27.170
of my head, and I think.
683
00:34:28.570 --> 00:34:31.869
I would assume part of it is probably Rey Mysterio
684
00:34:31.889 --> 00:34:33.829
getting hurt. I would assume they were probably going to
685
00:34:33.869 --> 00:34:36.570
go with Rey versus Miz, and since that didn't happen.
686
00:34:36.969 --> 00:34:39.150
But also, too, outside of that, when you get to
687
00:34:39.190 --> 00:34:42.969
some of the stories like, I think the obvious ones,
688
00:34:43.090 --> 00:34:46.530
Riley and Dolph, that's something that sometimes they just kind
689
00:34:46.550 --> 00:34:51.590
of throw on the pay-per-view anyways. I don't know. I
690
00:34:51.670 --> 00:34:55.469
don't know why they always just felt like they didn't
691
00:34:55.510 --> 00:34:59.550
need to announce a complete lineup. I know Kevin Dunn's
692
00:34:59.710 --> 00:35:03.139
big thing is people only buy the pay-per-view for the
693
00:35:03.159 --> 00:35:06.219
main event anyway, so that's all you really need to promote.
694
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:12.280
Let me jump in, John, because my counter-argument to that is,
695
00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:15.340
I mean, think about media writing, the real media world.
696
00:35:15.389 --> 00:35:19.070
We've got Almost everybody's got Internet and a laptop computer,
697
00:35:19.090 --> 00:35:22.050
and a lot of times their Internet's now accessible on
698
00:35:22.070 --> 00:35:26.090
their television. People have Netflix, subscription to Netflix, or DVDs
699
00:35:26.110 --> 00:35:28.650
stacked up that they've got to watch. Obviously, they've got cable,
700
00:35:28.889 --> 00:35:32.989
on-demand cable sometimes, DVR full of stuff. And you're asking
701
00:35:33.010 --> 00:35:36.630
people to spend 45 standard def, 55 to watch TV,
702
00:35:36.710 --> 00:35:38.639
as a lot of people do now in high def,
703
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:42.760
to watch John Cena vs. Punk and Christian Orton. You
704
00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:45.289
really have to have confidence there. in your main events,
705
00:35:45.469 --> 00:35:47.329
if you're Kevin Dunn and Vince McMahon, to make those
706
00:35:47.710 --> 00:35:50.530
the only reason people would spend $ 45 to $ 55 for it.
707
00:35:51.090 --> 00:35:53.070
Because to me, I think part of what people are
708
00:35:53.110 --> 00:35:56.179
buying isn't that match specifically is going to make me
709
00:35:56.219 --> 00:35:58.360
buy it. Because I agree with Kevin Dunn largely. I
710
00:35:58.389 --> 00:36:03.280
think this pay-per-view could be renamed SummerSlam, Cena Punk 2.
711
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:06.500
And that is a selling point. Yossi has shown that.
712
00:36:07.260 --> 00:36:09.579
But I think you have to give people an idea
713
00:36:09.619 --> 00:36:11.539
that you put some thought into entertaining them for the
714
00:36:11.579 --> 00:36:13.639
first two hours out of the three. If you're going
715
00:36:13.659 --> 00:36:15.449
to take three hours out of your life and spend
716
00:36:15.449 --> 00:36:20.230
$ 45 to $ 55 plus tax for seeing a punk, guarantee
717
00:36:20.269 --> 00:36:23.010
me if I'm on the fence that you put some
718
00:36:23.050 --> 00:36:25.730
thought into making sure that I've got some emotional investment
719
00:36:25.809 --> 00:36:30.480
in what goes on the first two hours. I think
720
00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:32.039
why stop short of just the people who buy it
721
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:34.719
on one match? Isn't it a bonus for those people
722
00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:36.519
who go, yeah, but talk me into it because I
723
00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:38.119
want to know I'm going to care about that first hour?
724
00:36:39.340 --> 00:36:42.739
Well, I mean, it's not a coincidence that they're having
725
00:36:43.099 --> 00:36:46.409
the troubles that they're having. I mean, because what you
726
00:36:46.429 --> 00:36:50.190
just said, and they feel like their philosophy is, Xenopunk
727
00:36:50.190 --> 00:36:52.269
2 is why people would buy it. But I also
728
00:36:52.309 --> 00:36:56.230
think that they sort of always kind of compared themselves
729
00:36:56.329 --> 00:36:59.070
to boxing in the sense that if it was Tyson
730
00:36:59.130 --> 00:37:01.469
or if it was Holyfield or whoever it was that
731
00:37:01.489 --> 00:37:04.050
was in the main event, That's really all they ever promoted.
732
00:37:04.590 --> 00:37:09.219
But I remember watching boxing. You didn't even watch the undercard.
733
00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:13.179
If it was on at 9 o'clock, you tuned in
734
00:37:13.219 --> 00:37:17.019
at 9.45 or 10 o'clock, and you watched the main event.
735
00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:19.510
And I just remember always doing that. But I think
736
00:37:19.570 --> 00:37:22.210
that they are different in the sense that they are
737
00:37:22.230 --> 00:37:25.429
an entertainment show where they need to say, you're going
738
00:37:25.449 --> 00:37:30.530
to spend $ 45 for three hours of excitement or whatever
739
00:37:30.590 --> 00:37:32.610
it is that they want to promote. And they've got
740
00:37:32.630 --> 00:37:35.190
to show you what you're buying. And I don't think
741
00:37:35.269 --> 00:37:38.869
that they are boxing. And I don't think that, you know, that's,
742
00:37:38.929 --> 00:37:43.690
that's something where when it's boxing, it's once, twice a year,
743
00:37:43.710 --> 00:37:47.000
you get Oscar De La Hoya to fight. And that's,
744
00:37:47.159 --> 00:37:49.960
that's enough to get people to go, all right, I'm
745
00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:52.659
going to buy the pay-per-view. But when you get John
746
00:37:52.739 --> 00:37:56.639
Cena to, four times out of the month and then
747
00:37:56.659 --> 00:37:59.199
a fifth time at the pay-per-view, you've got to provide
748
00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:02.500
more than just, hey, you're going to see Cena versus Punk,
749
00:38:02.780 --> 00:38:06.139
and you just paid $ 45 for it last month, and
750
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:09.239
you've watched them interact in the ring four times since then.
751
00:38:10.619 --> 00:38:12.820
You've got to give people an alternative to say, yeah,
752
00:38:12.840 --> 00:38:15.420
you know what, I'm kind of interested to see what's
753
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:17.900
going to happen there, but I kind of wanted to
754
00:38:17.980 --> 00:38:20.730
see what's going to happen with Riley and Dolph or
755
00:38:20.889 --> 00:38:23.719
Miz and whoever and on the other hand you got
756
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:27.059
Christian Orton that's what for the 17th time I mean
757
00:38:27.099 --> 00:38:29.440
what what and now it's no holds barred so I
758
00:38:29.460 --> 00:38:32.239
don't know why people would okay so Randy Orton can't
759
00:38:32.260 --> 00:38:34.630
get disqualified I just it's not a selling point and
760
00:38:34.670 --> 00:38:38.230
I think with UFC what's made them so so popular
761
00:38:38.409 --> 00:38:43.639
and and uh have their pay-per-view buys so high is
762
00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:46.719
that Number one, yes, you don't get to see Brock
763
00:38:46.739 --> 00:38:51.000
Lesnar every single month. But you also know that for
764
00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:55.159
three hours and now an extra hour on Spike and
765
00:38:55.179 --> 00:38:58.389
I think even an hour before that on Facebook, you're
766
00:38:58.409 --> 00:39:02.750
going to be entertained. And they promote every single fight
767
00:39:03.590 --> 00:39:06.340
that comes on their main card, I think, minus one.
768
00:39:07.059 --> 00:39:07.300
So.
769
00:39:07.809 --> 00:39:11.210
You watch their countdown shows. You watch their promotion. They're
770
00:39:11.250 --> 00:39:15.360
promoting almost every fight that's on the card, heavily promoting
771
00:39:15.380 --> 00:39:18.300
the main event. But that's why people are catching on
772
00:39:18.320 --> 00:39:20.400
with UFC because they know they've got to tune in
773
00:39:20.460 --> 00:39:22.500
at 6 o'clock. They're going to watch the whole thing,
774
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:27.989
and they're anticipating the main event. But with WWE, the
775
00:39:28.010 --> 00:39:30.750
fact that they don't promote their main event, undercard, and
776
00:39:30.789 --> 00:39:33.610
then when you watch the show, they put that much
777
00:39:33.699 --> 00:39:35.900
effort into what the undercard is, too. So I think
778
00:39:35.940 --> 00:39:38.840
that has a lot to do with going, I'm not interested...
779
00:39:39.090 --> 00:39:40.719
I remember I made the argument before when we were
780
00:39:40.739 --> 00:39:43.539
doing Sina Batista for four months in a row and
781
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:46.019
Orton Sina for six months in a row. And I said,
782
00:39:46.420 --> 00:39:48.179
if people don't want to see this, then no one's
783
00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:50.380
going to buy the pay-per-view because there's nothing else for
784
00:39:50.420 --> 00:39:55.170
them to even know that that's going on. Or you're making,
785
00:39:55.929 --> 00:39:58.510
you know, the A story the only story on the show.
786
00:39:58.590 --> 00:40:00.710
So if people aren't interested in the A story, they're
787
00:40:00.730 --> 00:40:02.110
going to tune out and they're not going to buy.
788
00:40:02.750 --> 00:40:04.659
And that's kind of what happened.
789
00:40:05.389 --> 00:40:08.329
Yeah, yeah. If you're just joining us, this is Wade Keller.
790
00:40:08.389 --> 00:40:12.150
I'm joined today by John Piermarini, former WWE creative team member,
791
00:40:12.550 --> 00:40:14.800
working on the Raw side, but also helping out with
792
00:40:14.820 --> 00:40:18.420
SmackDown for most of 2009, almost all of 2009 and 2010.
793
00:40:18.420 --> 00:40:22.219
He is a frequent guest co-host here on the PWTorch Livecast. John,
794
00:40:22.260 --> 00:40:24.639
how can people follow you on the Internet when you're
795
00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:25.639
not here on the Livecast?
796
00:40:27.380 --> 00:40:30.179
I'm on Twitter at John as himself, and then I
797
00:40:30.219 --> 00:40:38.130
have the Creative Recall blog at WrestlingRecall.com. I've been kind
798
00:40:38.170 --> 00:40:42.360
of not having a chance to catch up on SmackDown
799
00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:45.239
or TNA on the site, but I do the best
800
00:40:45.320 --> 00:40:48.840
I can to make sure I get my thoughts and
801
00:40:49.260 --> 00:40:51.659
what I would do differently with Raw every week on there.
802
00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:58.320
And I'll probably try to write a column before SummerSlam,
803
00:40:58.360 --> 00:41:00.260
kind of giving my thoughts and predictions on what I
804
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:01.489
think is going to happen on Sunday.
805
00:41:02.050 --> 00:41:02.280
Cool.
806
00:41:02.340 --> 00:41:06.449
Very good. So that's WrestlingRecall.com. And also, people can follow
807
00:41:06.489 --> 00:41:08.789
us here on the PWTorch Livecast on Facebook. You can
808
00:41:08.829 --> 00:41:12.369
go to Facebook.com slash PWTorch Livecast. We'll send you little
809
00:41:12.409 --> 00:41:14.530
nudges and reminders when we have a special show, including
810
00:41:14.590 --> 00:41:17.559
Sunday night, half hour after SummerSlam. James Caldwell and Greg
811
00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:20.460
Parks will be hosting a post-SummerSlam show. So when the
812
00:41:20.500 --> 00:41:22.659
show is over and you're ready to get some instant
813
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:25.159
feedback or participate in the show, be sure to tune
814
00:41:25.179 --> 00:41:34.150
in to blogtalkradio.com slash slash pro-wrestling-torch. That's blogtalkradio.com slash pro-wrestling-torch.
815
00:41:34.630 --> 00:41:36.949
Live Sunday night for one hour after SummerSlam, a half
816
00:41:36.969 --> 00:41:39.409
hour after it concludes. And you can also listen, of course,
817
00:41:39.469 --> 00:41:41.980
to that in the archives. Or even better, subscribe to
818
00:41:42.039 --> 00:41:44.519
us in iTunes. Go to iTunes and do a search
819
00:41:44.539 --> 00:41:48.949
for PWTorch. and you can subscribe to the PWTorch livecast
820
00:41:48.989 --> 00:41:53.210
and have it automatically available to you through your iTunes setup. Also,
821
00:41:53.269 --> 00:41:55.789
if you've got a smartphone, we are available on it.
822
00:41:55.980 --> 00:41:58.980
You can get our free iPhone app. Just do a
823
00:41:59.019 --> 00:42:02.059
search for PWTorch on your iPhone, or you can do
824
00:42:02.099 --> 00:42:05.050
it on your Android phone in the Marketplace. And we're
825
00:42:05.070 --> 00:42:08.179
also available in the Amazon store and a couple other
826
00:42:08.460 --> 00:42:14.059
app stores. So international listeners, check your phone's app store
827
00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:16.059
to find out if we are on it. And if
828
00:42:16.099 --> 00:42:17.960
you can't find an app or you've got a different phone,
829
00:42:17.980 --> 00:42:22.079
like a BlackBerry, we have a mobile-friendly browser built in.
830
00:42:22.139 --> 00:42:25.659
So just go to pwtorch.com on your phone's browser and
831
00:42:25.699 --> 00:42:29.250
choose mobile version, and we've got a very app-like interface
832
00:42:29.650 --> 00:42:32.570
that will make a very streamlined experience, getting all the
833
00:42:32.610 --> 00:42:36.190
content that's free on pwtorch.com. Also, Sunday night head-to-head with
834
00:42:36.210 --> 00:42:40.820
SummerSlam is a USC show, and it's free on Versus.
835
00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:43.619
And if you want to check out a preview of
836
00:42:43.659 --> 00:42:46.369
that card, you can also get the MMA Torch livecast.
837
00:42:46.389 --> 00:42:51.349
Just go to blogtalkradio.com slash MMATorch. And, of course, visit
838
00:42:51.369 --> 00:42:55.329
our sister site, mmatorch.com, and get our free MMA Torch
839
00:42:55.550 --> 00:43:00.030
app to follow MMA closely every single day. You can
840
00:43:00.050 --> 00:43:02.550
also follow us on Twitter here at the Livecast, twitter.com
841
00:43:02.590 --> 00:43:06.820
slash PWTorchLivecast. And, by the way, I just want to
842
00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:10.239
thank everybody for your support of this show through all measures.
843
00:43:10.760 --> 00:43:12.380
I just checked out our– I hadn't done this yet,
844
00:43:12.420 --> 00:43:14.929
but I checked out our July listenership totals, and it
845
00:43:14.989 --> 00:43:20.469
was more than double of February's. And so we've doubled
846
00:43:20.489 --> 00:43:23.610
our listenership in just the last six months. And we're
847
00:43:23.650 --> 00:43:26.230
very happy with our February listenership. So thanks, everybody, for
848
00:43:26.269 --> 00:43:29.670
continuing to spread the word and help us grow and
849
00:43:30.010 --> 00:43:32.849
continue to reach new people. And we appreciate that.
850
00:43:35.170 --> 00:43:38.650
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts? Well,
851
00:43:38.710 --> 00:43:41.590
come join me, Alan Forel, over in the Pro Wrestling
852
00:43:41.639 --> 00:43:45.590
Paradise at PWTorch VIP. as we bask on the bright
853
00:43:45.650 --> 00:43:48.250
side of wrestling and focus on some of the great
854
00:43:48.309 --> 00:43:53.110
matches and shows from around the world, be it the US, Japan, Europe,
855
00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:56.460
or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestling's past in
856
00:43:56.480 --> 00:43:59.619
the Paradise 2, and we've done fun historical shows such
857
00:43:59.659 --> 00:44:03.059
as the We Love Liger series, celebrating the glorious career
858
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:06.630
of Jushin Thunder Liger, and our I Was There When shows,
859
00:44:06.690 --> 00:44:08.610
where our guests will join me to talk about a
860
00:44:08.690 --> 00:44:12.380
classic bout that they were in attendance for, We love variety,
861
00:44:12.659 --> 00:44:14.639
and you can expect lots of it at the Pro
862
00:44:14.659 --> 00:44:19.659
Wrestling Paradise. Detailed PWTorch VIP subscription information and a list
863
00:44:19.699 --> 00:44:25.469
of all the VIP benefits is available at pwtorchvipinfo.com. And yes,
864
00:44:25.849 --> 00:44:29.690
all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on
865
00:44:29.849 --> 00:44:33.309
iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream them directly
866
00:44:33.349 --> 00:44:37.239
from our ad-free VIP mobile site. See you in the Paradise!
867
00:44:40.389 --> 00:44:41.730
Let's go back to the phone lines. We've got a
868
00:44:41.750 --> 00:44:43.210
lot of people lined up on the phone banks. If
869
00:44:43.230 --> 00:44:50.429
you want to join in, the number is 646-721-9828. 646-721-9828.
870
00:44:51.179 --> 00:44:54.639
Third caller of the show is area code 817. Thanks
871
00:44:54.659 --> 00:44:56.139
for holding. Please state your name and where you're from.
872
00:44:56.159 --> 00:44:59.940
Hi, Wade and John. It's Josh from Texas. And I
873
00:44:59.980 --> 00:45:02.019
have about three questions I'd.
874
00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:04.539
Like to ask. All right. Hit them quickly for us.
875
00:45:06.260 --> 00:45:09.309
One is, what was the.
876
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:17.219
What was the storyline reason for Goldust changing his ring
877
00:45:17.260 --> 00:45:18.840
name to the artist formerly.
878
00:45:18.539 --> 00:45:19.360
Known as Goldust?
879
00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:26.170
And the second one is, are they making all these
880
00:45:26.309 --> 00:45:29.190
cuts and releases so that they can make more room
881
00:45:29.250 --> 00:45:33.170
for other people to come in from FCW? And the
882
00:45:33.210 --> 00:45:38.380
third one is, after watching TNA, the opening segment of TNA,
883
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:43.349
I think I can predict... the co-main event and the
884
00:45:43.389 --> 00:45:45.989
main event of the Bound for Glory pay-per-view.
885
00:45:46.530 --> 00:45:48.829
Well, give us your predictions. Yeah, go ahead.
886
00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:54.719
The main event will be the Bound for Glory series.
887
00:45:56.360 --> 00:45:59.059
Number one contendership for the title, and the co-main event
888
00:45:59.099 --> 00:46:02.719
will be Sting and Mr. Anderson because he got kicked
889
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:07.199
out of Immortal Thursday versus Hogan and Kurt Angle. And
890
00:46:07.420 --> 00:46:09.000
it's going to be a tag team, so he won't be.
891
00:46:08.920 --> 00:46:09.500
Along one night.
892
00:46:10.630 --> 00:46:12.969
Yeah, yeah, you know what? I could see that. Hogan
893
00:46:13.010 --> 00:46:16.889
in a singles match is pretty scary, so that would
894
00:46:16.929 --> 00:46:19.550
be hard to imagine happening. Anyway, there's a lot of
895
00:46:19.570 --> 00:46:21.860
background noise there, so I'll put you on hold. As
896
00:46:21.900 --> 00:46:25.860
for the first two items, Josh, throw to you, John. Goldust,
897
00:46:25.980 --> 00:46:27.860
artist formerly known as Goldust, do you have any backstory
898
00:46:27.880 --> 00:46:31.400
on that? I, well.
899
00:46:31.460 --> 00:46:33.769
Obviously I wasn't there when that happened. You know that when.
900
00:46:35.530 --> 00:46:38.409
Uh when I was there Vince was always big on
901
00:46:38.469 --> 00:46:41.829
trying to evolve the Goldust character because he always saw
902
00:46:41.849 --> 00:46:46.280
uh Goldust as an asset and an equity but uh
903
00:46:46.619 --> 00:46:50.880
he uh always wanted what we could do with him
904
00:46:50.920 --> 00:46:52.619
and that was actually one of the things I was
905
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:55.599
working on with Goldust was finding out what we were
906
00:46:55.619 --> 00:46:58.590
going to do next with his character but unfortunately he
907
00:46:58.630 --> 00:47:01.980
got injured uh I thought he would have been back
908
00:47:02.019 --> 00:47:03.659
by now. I don't know if you know an update
909
00:47:03.719 --> 00:47:05.820
on that, but I don't have any background on why
910
00:47:05.900 --> 00:47:08.579
he became that. I'm assuming it's probably just the same
911
00:47:08.659 --> 00:47:12.710
story with, all right, let's do something else with him
912
00:47:12.909 --> 00:47:14.369
and evolve his character.
913
00:47:15.329 --> 00:47:16.869
Yeah, and I think now he's helping out Trey and
914
00:47:16.889 --> 00:47:19.250
the Divas behind the scenes, and I don't know that
915
00:47:19.269 --> 00:47:21.090
there's any plans for him, at least right now, to
916
00:47:21.159 --> 00:47:23.440
come back onto the main roster. I think he might
917
00:47:23.480 --> 00:47:27.059
be working behind the scenes now. So he might actually
918
00:47:27.099 --> 00:47:30.079
be the artist formerly known as Goldust in a literal sense.
919
00:47:30.989 --> 00:47:33.099
because of that. All right, Josh, thanks for the calls.
920
00:47:33.159 --> 00:47:36.099
Let's keep going through calls here. And up next, looks
921
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:38.679
like it's 708. Thanks for holding. Please state your name
922
00:47:38.699 --> 00:47:42.639
and where you're from. Hey, Boris, what's up?
923
00:47:43.449 --> 00:47:44.250
Hey, how's it going?
924
00:47:44.570 --> 00:47:44.789
Good.
925
00:47:46.170 --> 00:47:51.110
I actually checked out a little TNA via YouTube, and
926
00:47:51.130 --> 00:47:54.510
it looks like the knockouts are doing it again. They're
927
00:47:54.590 --> 00:47:58.340
actually stepping up to the plate, looking better than the men.
928
00:47:59.070 --> 00:48:01.840
What do you think about that? And I think with
929
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:06.599
Triple H in the middle of this, I, myself, my opinion,
930
00:48:06.699 --> 00:48:10.219
it takes away from the actual second match between Punk
931
00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:12.920
and Cena because I like the way they're doing the
932
00:48:12.980 --> 00:48:17.739
Undertaker streak. It's one-on-one, and there's a winner, a definitive
933
00:48:17.800 --> 00:48:21.489
winner versus, you know, we got to put a stipulation
934
00:48:21.530 --> 00:48:25.269
in this, two belts, you know, everything versus, you know,
935
00:48:25.349 --> 00:48:27.789
just having them go one-on-one again. What do you think
936
00:48:27.809 --> 00:48:28.210
about that?
937
00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:33.269
Um, I first question, Boris, um, I, I guess I'll
938
00:48:33.489 --> 00:48:35.230
dare to ask you for clarification. What makes you think
939
00:48:35.710 --> 00:48:37.130
that the knockouts are stepping it up?
940
00:48:39.289 --> 00:48:43.050
Well, I think the, um, Nick James and, um, that
941
00:48:43.110 --> 00:48:45.130
match and I really liked it versus a lot of
942
00:48:45.150 --> 00:48:46.889
stuff they've been doing with the knockout.
943
00:48:47.070 --> 00:48:47.289
Yeah.
944
00:48:47.510 --> 00:48:50.659
It looked like they really, you know, got their stuff together.
945
00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:52.159
It's kind of, it was kind of like, you know,
946
00:48:52.460 --> 00:48:56.199
a little bit, it wasn't as good as before. Um,
947
00:48:56.929 --> 00:49:02.820
the Hogan-Bischoff era, but they look better than the men,
948
00:49:02.929 --> 00:49:03.760
I can just say it like that.
949
00:49:03.780 --> 00:49:07.420
Sure, okay, very good. I'll just take that as a comment,
950
00:49:07.460 --> 00:49:10.909
because I don't really know what to add to it,
951
00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:13.889
but as for Triple H, John, what do you think
952
00:49:13.929 --> 00:49:16.090
of Triple H's role on Monday in that segment, and
953
00:49:16.489 --> 00:49:19.170
kind of the reintroduction of Triple H, or not really
954
00:49:19.210 --> 00:49:21.880
the introduction of Triple H as a suit and what
955
00:49:21.889 --> 00:49:24.420
they're doing with it? What signals do you think they've
956
00:49:24.440 --> 00:49:26.039
sent out so far? What do you think of Triple
957
00:49:26.059 --> 00:49:27.019
H's performance so far?
958
00:49:28.539 --> 00:49:28.960
I like it.
959
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:30.760
I mean, it's a little awkward I think for a
960
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:35.539
lot of the their overall fan base. I think they're
961
00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:39.820
kind of confused because Triple H was never portrayed as
962
00:49:40.340 --> 00:49:43.400
anything corporate if anything he was the opposite of that
963
00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:46.260
and then i don't even know if some of the
964
00:49:46.340 --> 00:49:48.980
audience now even knew that there was a storyline that
965
00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:53.039
triple h married stephanie but uh i mean whatever i
966
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:55.539
i don't i don't mind it i think it's fine
967
00:49:55.579 --> 00:49:58.099
i think that there's a larger story that goes along
968
00:49:58.139 --> 00:49:59.920
with it and to his point of the question of
969
00:49:59.960 --> 00:50:01.699
why does he have to get involved in the match
970
00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:04.889
uh because there's probably a reason why he's in the
971
00:50:04.909 --> 00:50:08.769
match and that that reason is going to come to
972
00:50:08.809 --> 00:50:10.510
light at the pay-per-view. I mean, they're not going to
973
00:50:10.570 --> 00:50:14.190
put him in there. Just trust me, like everyone, people
974
00:50:14.230 --> 00:50:16.610
were asking me on Twitter, oh, it's just his ego.
975
00:50:16.650 --> 00:50:18.190
He had to be in the main event. It's like,
976
00:50:18.210 --> 00:50:21.550
come on. Like if Triple H wanted to be in
977
00:50:21.590 --> 00:50:24.789
the spotlight, and I'm sure he does, but Triple H
978
00:50:24.829 --> 00:50:27.090
would find a better way or he'd put himself in
979
00:50:27.130 --> 00:50:29.309
the match or he'd find a match to be in
980
00:50:29.650 --> 00:50:32.369
or something. He's pretty much taken a step back, if
981
00:50:32.409 --> 00:50:35.070
you ask me, and letting these two guys do their thing.
982
00:50:35.489 --> 00:50:38.639
He's in that match because there is a story that
983
00:50:38.679 --> 00:50:41.400
will develop with why he was put in the match.
984
00:50:41.420 --> 00:50:43.159
I mean, the whole thing about him being in it
985
00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:46.300
is a story in itself. It's not him just saying, look,
986
00:50:46.840 --> 00:50:48.159
I'm just going to be in the match, and that's
987
00:50:48.179 --> 00:50:49.800
just the way it's going to go. I mean, follow
988
00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:53.230
the story, let it unfold, and you'll see there's reasons
989
00:50:53.269 --> 00:50:56.530
why things are done, not just because someone feels like
990
00:50:56.550 --> 00:50:57.570
they want to do something.
991
00:50:58.469 --> 00:50:59.489
Absolutely, yeah. No, I don't.
992
00:50:59.889 --> 00:51:00.159
I mean, I.
993
00:51:00.650 --> 00:51:03.750
Is there some ego involved in anything anybody does, especially
994
00:51:03.769 --> 00:51:05.230
when they're in a position of power to put themselves
995
00:51:05.269 --> 00:51:07.909
in something? Of course. But I think Triple H is thinking,
996
00:51:08.329 --> 00:51:10.010
this makes sense based on where we want to go
997
00:51:10.050 --> 00:51:11.690
and what my involvement is going to be going forward.
998
00:51:11.750 --> 00:51:13.150
And I think you're right, John. I think we're going
999
00:51:13.170 --> 00:51:15.659
to see something with Triple H. Where do you think–
1000
00:51:15.969 --> 00:51:19.139
is the Triple H storyline going in a direction involving
1001
00:51:19.179 --> 00:51:21.960
CM Punk? And if so, will they wrestle? And if so, when?
1002
00:51:23.579 --> 00:51:28.039
I think– I'm starting to think– again, my initial gut
1003
00:51:28.119 --> 00:51:32.239
reaction– was John Cena turns heel with the help of
1004
00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:37.909
Triple H. But I'm starting to, and maybe we could
1005
00:51:37.949 --> 00:51:43.309
talk about this after the fact, just because it had
1006
00:51:43.349 --> 00:51:46.949
been done, but I'm starting to think that they're going
1007
00:51:46.969 --> 00:51:49.789
to go the route of Triple H helps CM Punk.
1008
00:51:49.849 --> 00:51:53.750
Those were the perks that he came back for. This
1009
00:51:53.809 --> 00:51:56.349
is his guy. It was a plan all along to
1010
00:51:56.409 --> 00:52:00.099
get Vince out of power. Triple H had to get
1011
00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:01.929
Vince out of there. This is how he did it.
1012
00:52:02.480 --> 00:52:05.280
Through CM Punk, he brought CM Punk back to, you know,
1013
00:52:05.360 --> 00:52:07.559
whatever the case may be. But I think this is
1014
00:52:07.619 --> 00:52:13.389
going to be– they're so overly pushing this Triple H.
1015
00:52:13.820 --> 00:52:16.119
I'm doing everything for the fans. I think they want
1016
00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:19.260
you to overly commit to him as a babyface just
1017
00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:21.139
so that he can really slap you in the face
1018
00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:22.280
on Sunday.
1019
00:52:25.380 --> 00:52:28.000
All right, we covered Boris' questions, so let's keep rolling
1020
00:52:28.019 --> 00:52:29.800
through calls here as best we can. Thanks, Boris, for calling,
1021
00:52:29.820 --> 00:52:33.800
as always. Let's go to 9-1-0. You're up next. Please
1022
00:52:33.820 --> 00:52:34.699
state your name and where you're from.
1023
00:52:36.380 --> 00:52:39.000
This is Hannibal from Fayetteville, North Carolina. How are you doing?
1024
00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:40.539
Doing good. Where have you been, Hannibal?
1025
00:52:42.599 --> 00:52:46.960
Yeah, you know, I've been busy at school and everything, work.
1026
00:52:47.880 --> 00:52:51.440
All right, all right. We've missed your calls. You were
1027
00:52:51.949 --> 00:52:53.300
called up every day for a while, and now it's
1028
00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:56.190
been a, since I've been hosting months since I've heard
1029
00:52:56.230 --> 00:52:58.130
from you, I think. But anyway, what's your question or
1030
00:52:58.170 --> 00:52:58.630
comment for us?
1031
00:53:00.409 --> 00:53:02.190
Okay, yes, the question I want to ask, though, is
1032
00:53:02.230 --> 00:53:04.050
this right here. You know, I know we had a
1033
00:53:04.070 --> 00:53:06.719
chance to answer that Paul Heyman question with y'all, but,
1034
00:53:07.340 --> 00:53:08.880
you know, how about they can, you know, get a
1035
00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:11.400
deal with him like this where, okay, we'll let you
1036
00:53:11.440 --> 00:53:14.739
run Impact for, you know, maybe like about at least
1037
00:53:14.780 --> 00:53:16.519
six months, and if you do well with that, then
1038
00:53:16.539 --> 00:53:19.260
we can negotiate a deal, you know, ownership or whatever
1039
00:53:19.300 --> 00:53:21.650
like that, you know, to see how well he does.
1040
00:53:22.500 --> 00:53:24.880
or just take him to, you know, Explosion to see
1041
00:53:24.900 --> 00:53:28.280
how well he does over there. Young times, you don't
1042
00:53:28.300 --> 00:53:29.909
want to get rid of the old guys just that fast.
1043
00:53:29.949 --> 00:53:32.010
If he does well at Explosion, where he looks better
1044
00:53:32.050 --> 00:53:34.590
to the impact, then they can make a decision then.
1045
00:53:35.070 --> 00:53:36.849
So what's our take on running in that direction?
1046
00:53:37.369 --> 00:53:39.329
Who were you talking about that old-time Hannibal? I actually
1047
00:53:39.349 --> 00:53:39.710
missed that.
1048
00:53:41.210 --> 00:53:41.789
Paul Heyman.
1049
00:53:42.190 --> 00:53:43.929
Oh, okay, okay, thank you. Yeah, I heard his name,
1050
00:53:43.949 --> 00:53:46.130
and I didn't know if that was special. Well, yeah,
1051
00:53:46.190 --> 00:53:50.570
I mean, well, John, obviously the Paul Heyman talk is
1052
00:53:50.630 --> 00:53:53.829
out there, and he's, you know, on people's minds and
1053
00:53:53.869 --> 00:53:58.309
fans remember ECW fondly. Did his name ever come up
1054
00:53:58.349 --> 00:54:02.840
in WWE as somebody who, you know, people wanted back
1055
00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:05.460
or who was trying to leverage back or anything like that?
1056
00:54:06.619 --> 00:54:08.860
No, Brian Gowertz is not a fan of Paul Heyman,
1057
00:54:08.880 --> 00:54:15.320
so he wasn't coming back. And unfortunately, he could block
1058
00:54:15.409 --> 00:54:17.920
anyone from coming back if he didn't want to.
1059
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:22.119
iPhone users, if you're listening to us on the Native
1060
00:54:22.139 --> 00:54:26.190
Podcast app on your iPhone, you can unlock our commercial-free
1061
00:54:26.230 --> 00:54:31.170
versions of our free shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts.
1062
00:54:31.190 --> 00:54:33.730
You'll see a charcoal gray logo that says PWTorch VIP
1063
00:54:33.809 --> 00:54:35.789
on it. Click on that. There's some free samples of
1064
00:54:35.849 --> 00:54:39.429
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1065
00:54:39.449 --> 00:54:42.679
which includes VIP exclusives plus commercial-free versions of the free
1066
00:54:42.699 --> 00:54:46.360
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1067
00:54:46.380 --> 00:54:49.699
the PWTorch VIP logo. and then activate your three-day free trial.
1068
00:54:49.739 --> 00:54:52.199
And after that, you can become a VIP member using
1069
00:54:52.219 --> 00:54:55.429
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1070
00:54:55.489 --> 00:54:59.090
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1071
00:54:59.150 --> 00:55:02.829
including our post-pay-per-view roundtables, the Wade Keller news bulletins, everything
1072
00:55:02.849 --> 00:55:04.989
with Rich and Wade, the fix that I host with
1073
00:55:05.010 --> 00:55:08.469
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1074
00:55:08.489 --> 00:55:10.679
search PWTorch in your Apple Podcast app.
1075
00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:17.360
From what you know of the writing structure and Paul's
1076
00:55:17.380 --> 00:55:19.389
reputation and Paul's work, do you think he'd be a
1077
00:55:19.409 --> 00:55:21.429
good addition to WWE? And if so, where would he
1078
00:55:21.449 --> 00:55:25.289
fit in? And part two, what about TNA? Based on
1079
00:55:25.690 --> 00:55:29.170
your knowledge of his work and his reputation, would you
1080
00:55:29.210 --> 00:55:30.750
recommend TNA make the call and bring him in and
1081
00:55:30.769 --> 00:55:32.840
see what he can do on a trial basis, at
1082
00:55:32.860 --> 00:55:39.420
the very least? Hello? Oh, I think we just lost John.
1083
00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:42.579
He's on his cell phone, so... Fair enough. We will
1084
00:55:42.679 --> 00:55:45.000
go to the next call, and I will go back
1085
00:55:45.019 --> 00:55:51.250
to that question at a later time. Oh, John's back already. Hey, John.
1086
00:55:51.269 --> 00:55:51.869
Hey, Wade, I'm back.
1087
00:55:52.269 --> 00:55:55.190
Okay, cool. I just asked Paul Heyman, do you think
1088
00:55:55.250 --> 00:55:57.369
that he would be somebody who would fit in if
1089
00:55:57.409 --> 00:56:00.679
Brian Gewirtz wasn't around as a valuable member of WWE creative?
1090
00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:03.139
And also, would you recommend him if you were TNA
1091
00:56:03.380 --> 00:56:05.420
and looking for a new creative? Just your kind of
1092
00:56:05.579 --> 00:56:06.380
brief opinion on that.
1093
00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:09.820
Absolutely. I think that he'd be an asset to either
1094
00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:13.320
one of the companies. I think that TNA needs to,
1095
00:56:15.860 --> 00:56:18.039
I don't know, I'm sure they're at the mercy to
1096
00:56:18.079 --> 00:56:21.760
some extent to Spike TV and maybe Spike wanting some
1097
00:56:21.780 --> 00:56:25.840
of these bigger names involved, but I think that whoever's
1098
00:56:25.900 --> 00:56:29.780
making the ultimate decisions there needs to realize they're not
1099
00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:33.880
making good ones and let someone who has the experience
1100
00:56:34.360 --> 00:56:37.380
who's run a company before, who's made a successful company
1101
00:56:38.980 --> 00:56:41.980
from the ground up, and let him come in and
1102
00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:45.769
change the philosophy there. I think that the same could
1103
00:56:45.789 --> 00:56:50.070
be said at WWE. I think there's too many egos, though,
1104
00:56:50.230 --> 00:56:53.230
at WWE for him to be able to come in
1105
00:56:53.289 --> 00:56:55.880
and go, all right, here's what I think we need
1106
00:56:55.900 --> 00:56:59.469
to do, because no matter what, No matter what is
1107
00:56:59.510 --> 00:57:02.449
put on TV, Vince has to feel or has to
1108
00:57:02.510 --> 00:57:06.170
make everyone else feel that it was his idea. So
1109
00:57:07.090 --> 00:57:09.329
I guess to an extent, same as Brian. I don't
1110
00:57:09.349 --> 00:57:14.489
think Brian would let Paul walk in and just go, hey,
1111
00:57:14.530 --> 00:57:17.780
here's what we're going to do. And Brian goes, all right, yeah,
1112
00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:19.389
let's go with it. It's not going to happen.
1113
00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:21.639
That kind of happened.
1114
00:57:21.659 --> 00:57:25.260
I remember talking to the guys there about when Russo–
1115
00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:28.320
came back for one day or one week or whatever
1116
00:57:28.380 --> 00:57:30.260
it was. And he kind of walked in, he said
1117
00:57:30.280 --> 00:57:33.619
his philosophy, and I think Brian and the guys walked
1118
00:57:33.679 --> 00:57:35.800
in and said, this ain't going to work out. And
1119
00:57:37.150 --> 00:57:37.489
it didn't.
1120
00:57:39.829 --> 00:57:44.489
That was a very short-lived return. I know he wanted
1121
00:57:44.630 --> 00:57:46.349
to bring D.X.
1122
00:57:46.550 --> 00:57:47.030
Back in.
1123
00:57:47.659 --> 00:57:48.480
Say that again. I'm sorry, John.
1124
00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:51.780
I know his big thing was he wanted to reunite D.X.,
1125
00:57:52.670 --> 00:57:55.929
If that was his number one thing, then it's kind
1126
00:57:55.969 --> 00:57:57.760
of probably a good idea that he didn't make it.
1127
00:57:59.070 --> 00:58:03.920
Yeah, for multiple reasons. Anyway, 917, I just tried to
1128
00:58:03.960 --> 00:58:05.360
go to you. I heard a ton of background noise.
1129
00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:07.360
So if you can eliminate that, we'll go to you
1130
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:10.800
next after this next caller. But first, 210, you are
1131
00:58:10.920 --> 00:58:12.440
up next. Thanks for holding. Please state your name and
1132
00:58:12.460 --> 00:58:12.880
where you're from.
1133
00:58:16.489 --> 00:58:17.230
Hello, how's it going?
1134
00:58:17.250 --> 00:58:20.550
This is Daryl from San Francisco. Daryl from San Francisco?
1135
00:58:20.570 --> 00:58:20.650
Yeah.
1136
00:58:22.219 --> 00:58:25.449
Yeah, I have a San Antonio cell phone. Sorry about that.
1137
00:58:25.530 --> 00:58:29.889
That's all right. Yeah, go ahead with your question or comment, Darrell.
1138
00:58:30.289 --> 00:58:34.369
I called in yesterday and talked to James about the
1139
00:58:34.449 --> 00:58:37.280
possibility of WWE not really caring too much about the
1140
00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:39.739
fact that they're the number one wrestling company and that
1141
00:58:39.820 --> 00:58:42.179
kind of the wrestling industry as a whole kind of
1142
00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:46.159
rests on the WWE shoulders. And understandably so, they have
1143
00:58:46.579 --> 00:58:50.090
private or now publicly traded shareholders to worry about and
1144
00:58:50.739 --> 00:58:54.559
A corporate bottom line, my.
1145
00:58:53.500 --> 00:58:57.460
Question to you today is what do you think necessarily
1146
00:58:57.519 --> 00:59:00.760
about that? Does it concern you at all, considering that
1147
00:59:00.780 --> 00:59:07.050
you cover wrestling and not really entertainment or sports entertainment,
1148
00:59:07.110 --> 00:59:10.750
although we all agree that wrestling is entertainment? and entertaining.
1149
00:59:10.769 --> 00:59:16.320
So in a sense, am I scared? What am I
1150
00:59:16.320 --> 00:59:18.860
going to do if wrestling goes under as a genre?
1151
00:59:19.800 --> 00:59:22.260
Yeah, I guess. I mean, if it goes under, it
1152
00:59:22.340 --> 00:59:25.460
would be because of their WWE, really.
1153
00:59:25.929 --> 00:59:28.050
Wouldn't it be? You know, I mean, it's an interesting question.
1154
00:59:28.070 --> 00:59:31.769
Because of their lack of care and concern? Yeah. I mean,
1155
00:59:31.809 --> 00:59:32.789
if WWE went.
1156
00:59:32.829 --> 00:59:35.050
Their lack of care and concern for the forwarding of
1157
00:59:35.090 --> 00:59:38.429
the product, for the forwarding of the wrestling business. I
1158
00:59:38.469 --> 00:59:39.969
know that some of the things that would be better
1159
00:59:39.989 --> 00:59:43.170
for the wrestling business doesn't necessarily mean that it's good
1160
00:59:43.289 --> 00:59:45.289
for the bottom line, you know, and for the public
1161
00:59:45.309 --> 00:59:46.530
shareholders and all that jazz.
1162
00:59:48.190 --> 00:59:51.190
Yeah, I think they're short-term thinkers, and that we see
1163
00:59:51.210 --> 00:59:52.710
a lot of evidence of. I think if they weren't
1164
00:59:52.730 --> 00:59:55.670
worried about the next quarterly statement, we'd see some different
1165
00:59:55.690 --> 00:59:58.349
moves being made, and Vince McMahon would say, wait, I
1166
00:59:58.389 --> 00:59:59.809
know this is going to set us back, we're going
1167
00:59:59.829 --> 01:00:02.349
to go back two steps, but ultimately we're going to
1168
01:00:02.369 --> 01:00:04.889
go three, four, five steps forward, but we have to
1169
01:00:04.929 --> 01:00:07.769
stick with this for six, nine months to re-educate, so
1170
01:00:07.789 --> 01:00:10.289
to speak, our viewers on what they're now going to
1171
01:00:10.309 --> 01:00:11.829
get that's different than what they got before, and we
1172
01:00:11.849 --> 01:00:14.380
have to stop hot-shotting. We're going to be looking at,
1173
01:00:14.429 --> 01:00:17.280
you know, 2012's pay-per-view buy rates going up, even if
1174
01:00:17.320 --> 01:00:19.079
that means we have to sacrifice a little TV ratings
1175
01:00:19.099 --> 01:00:20.739
in the meantime. And, no, we're not going to get
1176
01:00:20.780 --> 01:00:23.920
that with the quarterly statements in the way that, you know,
1177
01:00:24.159 --> 01:00:28.000
everything is run on a quarterly statement incentive basis. But,
1178
01:00:28.400 --> 01:00:30.739
you know, I mean, yeah, of course. I mean, as
1179
01:00:31.039 --> 01:00:33.260
soon as WSW went out of business, I think we
1180
01:00:33.300 --> 01:00:36.699
all kind of took this deep breath and exhaled and said, wow,
1181
01:00:36.820 --> 01:00:39.630
you know, we're down to one. But the fact is,
1182
01:00:39.650 --> 01:00:41.730
you know, I think I could stay in business doing
1183
01:00:41.750 --> 01:00:45.670
what I do, if WWE went under, because I think
1184
01:00:45.690 --> 01:00:48.929
between TNA and Ring of Honor and what we do
1185
01:00:48.989 --> 01:00:51.369
on the VIP side of things, analyzing the history of
1186
01:00:51.389 --> 01:00:55.130
the industry, I think there's people who... The fan base
1187
01:00:55.309 --> 01:00:59.909
of the Torch, especially the hardcore fan who becomes a
1188
01:00:59.949 --> 01:01:03.190
VIP member or who visits the Torch website, I think
1189
01:01:03.210 --> 01:01:05.429
they're going to stick around for a while and kind
1190
01:01:05.449 --> 01:01:06.570
of see how it all shakes out.
1191
01:01:07.170 --> 01:01:07.369
And so.
1192
01:01:08.719 --> 01:01:11.019
And I think they're more likely to be into ROH
1193
01:01:11.260 --> 01:01:13.389
or TNA and be willing to give it a chance.
1194
01:01:14.070 --> 01:01:18.349
It's the mainstream coverage or the mainstream corporate-owned websites out
1195
01:01:18.389 --> 01:01:20.949
there that I think would be in more trouble that
1196
01:01:20.969 --> 01:01:26.130
are entirely based around the more short-term fan who is
1197
01:01:26.210 --> 01:01:29.380
just a newer fan and just wants the latest three-line
1198
01:01:29.409 --> 01:01:31.579
story gossip item. I think they'd be in more trouble
1199
01:01:32.219 --> 01:01:34.179
than the Torch brand. So in that respect, I mean,
1200
01:01:34.699 --> 01:01:36.059
on a selfish level, and I don't know if that's
1201
01:01:36.079 --> 01:01:37.909
how you meant the question, Daryl, but I don't worry
1202
01:01:37.929 --> 01:01:40.449
about it, and frankly, if I didn't cover wrestling, I'd
1203
01:01:40.489 --> 01:01:42.599
probably cover MMA because I've got that wing of my business,
1204
01:01:42.659 --> 01:01:44.380
and if not, I would have a new adventure in life,
1205
01:01:44.420 --> 01:01:47.440
and I'd look forward to it. So that doesn't worry me,
1206
01:01:47.480 --> 01:01:49.780
but it's kind of interesting, John, that there was a
1207
01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:52.460
time where the idea of pro wrestling going away wasn't
1208
01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:56.710
even a consideration at all, and now, I mean, if
1209
01:01:57.230 --> 01:01:59.170
WWE went under, the pro wrestling industry would have a
1210
01:01:59.349 --> 01:02:04.449
much lower profile nationally and internationally as an entertainment format.
1211
01:02:05.579 --> 01:02:08.500
Yeah, I just feel like even if they did, there's
1212
01:02:08.539 --> 01:02:18.159
just so much built-up talent and name brand that whether
1213
01:02:18.179 --> 01:02:20.500
it was Vince starting something else or whether it was
1214
01:02:20.579 --> 01:02:21.320
somebody else.
1215
01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:25.650
Speaking of Paul Heyman. Speaking of Paul Heyman. You know
1216
01:02:25.670 --> 01:02:28.719
what I mean? Like, Paul Heyman would get investors together.
1217
01:02:28.760 --> 01:02:30.940
He'd use his network connections. He'd go and he'd say,
1218
01:02:31.300 --> 01:02:33.780
all right, here's what I've got. We've got this wide opening.
1219
01:02:34.039 --> 01:02:36.769
They do this on USA Network, and they screwed up.
1220
01:02:36.809 --> 01:02:39.190
They didn't do anything right. I've got these people behind me,
1221
01:02:39.230 --> 01:02:40.949
and Brock Lesnar's promised to do this.
1222
01:02:41.050 --> 01:02:41.230
I mean.
1223
01:02:41.590 --> 01:02:44.179
You can just imagine the sales pitch of people coming
1224
01:02:44.219 --> 01:02:46.280
out of the woodwork going, look at this opening. This
1225
01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:48.039
is something I love and I feel I can do well.
1226
01:02:48.380 --> 01:02:50.940
Get the money and the network behind us and get going.
1227
01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:54.250
I mean, TNA did it with WWES competition. Imagine the
1228
01:02:54.309 --> 01:02:56.829
opening that there would be without WWES competition.
1229
01:02:57.650 --> 01:02:58.309
Yep, I agree.
1230
01:02:58.889 --> 01:02:59.070
Yeah.
1231
01:02:59.539 --> 01:03:01.599
All right, very good. Let's keep trying to get through calls.
1232
01:03:01.639 --> 01:03:05.420
Our number here is 646-721-9828. And we are here Monday
1233
01:03:05.440 --> 01:03:08.449
through Friday. We'll be back actually on Sunday night following SummerSlam.
1234
01:03:08.469 --> 01:03:10.690
So just a reminder to be sure to check us
1235
01:03:10.769 --> 01:03:12.650
out either live after the show or if that's too
1236
01:03:12.690 --> 01:03:14.829
late for you or you forget. It should be waiting
1237
01:03:14.869 --> 01:03:17.789
for you on your iPod or iTunes in the morning
1238
01:03:17.809 --> 01:03:20.170
if you subscribe to us in iTunes. You can also
1239
01:03:20.210 --> 01:03:26.050
get it at blogtalkradio.com slash pro-wrestling-torch. Let's go to perhaps
1240
01:03:26.090 --> 01:03:29.119
our last caller of the day here, Eric Ode. 651,
1241
01:03:29.099 --> 01:03:30.920
thanks for calling. Please state your name and where you're from.
1242
01:03:32.980 --> 01:03:35.460
Hey, it's Mike from Woodbury, Minnesota. How are you doing, Wade?
1243
01:03:35.500 --> 01:03:38.679
Doing good, doing good. Trying to transition from a Twins
1244
01:03:38.739 --> 01:03:40.909
comeback to what are the Vikings going to do this year?
1245
01:03:42.849 --> 01:03:43.550
Join the club.
1246
01:03:43.789 --> 01:03:45.710
I know.
1247
01:03:46.190 --> 01:03:48.130
I'm glad I'm the last caller today because I don't
1248
01:03:48.170 --> 01:03:50.170
really have anything too much for John, but I think
1249
01:03:50.210 --> 01:03:53.070
this question– Can we transition to his panel a bit?
1250
01:03:53.150 --> 01:03:55.289
But I think it's safe to say The Rock is
1251
01:03:55.309 --> 01:03:59.389
going to be around for more shows other than WrestleMania
1252
01:03:59.449 --> 01:04:04.380
next year. So what do you think the odds are
1253
01:04:04.400 --> 01:04:09.300
of a possible Shawn Michaels-Rock dream match headlining SummerSlam next year?
1254
01:04:09.639 --> 01:04:10.219
That's all I got.
1255
01:04:10.280 --> 01:04:10.599
Thank you.
1256
01:04:10.619 --> 01:04:13.300
All right. Very good, Mike. Shawn Michaels versus The Rock.
1257
01:04:13.340 --> 01:04:15.139
I mean, that was a match that Rock didn't... When
1258
01:04:15.179 --> 01:04:17.679
I interviewed Rock in 1999 and asked about, you know,
1259
01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:20.199
one guy you haven't wrestled yet... would be Shawn Michaels,
1260
01:04:20.219 --> 01:04:22.170
and he's like, I have zero interest in wrestling Shawn Michaels.
1261
01:04:22.329 --> 01:04:24.730
I mean, he was very blunt about that. They've since
1262
01:04:25.269 --> 01:04:28.070
mended that bridge, and if Michaels was going to make
1263
01:04:28.110 --> 01:04:30.809
a comeback, I think that would be certainly an intriguing
1264
01:04:30.849 --> 01:04:35.559
match for both Dwayne Johnson and Shawn Michaels. But, yeah, so, John,
1265
01:04:35.579 --> 01:04:38.849
what do you think about that? I'm not buying it.
1266
01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:40.840
You're not a Shawn Michaels fan, though.
1267
01:04:41.400 --> 01:04:44.719
I'd rather see him come back and work some of
1268
01:04:44.739 --> 01:04:48.940
the younger guys, whoever is– You could say right now,
1269
01:04:49.219 --> 01:04:52.760
the punks, guys like that, or Del Rio, I have
1270
01:04:52.800 --> 01:04:58.010
no interest in seeing Shawn Michaels come back at 50
1271
01:04:58.010 --> 01:04:59.389
because of who he used to be.
1272
01:05:00.610 --> 01:05:01.010
I don't know.
1273
01:05:01.610 --> 01:05:03.199
I love Bret Hart. I don't want him to keep
1274
01:05:03.239 --> 01:05:05.559
coming back, although he's a little bit more limited. But
1275
01:05:05.619 --> 01:05:08.800
even then, if you can't be Bret Hart, what's the point?
1276
01:05:09.389 --> 01:05:15.070
And Shawn Michaels is not Shawn Michaels anymore. And I'm sorry.
1277
01:05:15.090 --> 01:05:17.389
I know people disagree with that. But I just have
1278
01:05:17.429 --> 01:05:21.800
no interest in him coming back at all. I don't know.
1279
01:05:22.360 --> 01:05:23.820
I might be taking crazy pills.
1280
01:05:24.659 --> 01:05:29.719
On that blasphemous note, no. We're going to transition here
1281
01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:32.349
into the VIP After Show in just about 30 seconds here.
1282
01:05:32.409 --> 01:05:34.349
So VIP members, hold on. We're going to keep John
1283
01:05:34.369 --> 01:05:36.559
around for a few more minutes. and cover a few
1284
01:05:36.599 --> 01:05:40.320
more topics headed into SummerSlam on Sunday. And one thing
1285
01:05:40.340 --> 01:05:42.320
I want to talk about is, John, your opinion on
1286
01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:46.730
if Rock and CM Punk and John Cena, if there's
1287
01:05:46.809 --> 01:05:48.710
any legit heat going on here and what kind of
1288
01:05:50.150 --> 01:05:52.699
animosity there might be towards Dwayne Johnson, even, based on
1289
01:05:52.739 --> 01:05:54.159
some of the things that were said on Monday. So
1290
01:05:54.559 --> 01:05:57.840
that will be part of the VIP After Show. Don't forget,
1291
01:05:57.900 --> 01:06:00.380
just a final reminder, because it's not part of our
1292
01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:03.380
normal schedule. Join us on Sunday for SummerSlam. And if
1293
01:06:03.400 --> 01:06:07.789
you want to go VIP, pwtorch.com slash go VIP.
1294
01:06:11.460 --> 01:06:15.389
Hey, everyone. Longtime PWTorch columnist Sean Radican here to let
1295
01:06:15.409 --> 01:06:19.039
you know I've revamped and renewed the Radican Worldwide Podcast
1296
01:06:19.059 --> 01:06:23.710
for 2026. a weekly VIP exclusive. Every week, I break
1297
01:06:23.750 --> 01:06:26.429
down four or five of the biggest trending topics in
1298
01:06:26.510 --> 01:06:30.329
pro wrestling. I also present my analysis, providing insight that
1299
01:06:30.349 --> 01:06:32.969
helps you understand the story better or see it another
1300
01:06:33.010 --> 01:06:36.130
way than maybe is the controversial take out there. Then
1301
01:06:36.250 --> 01:06:38.230
I bring on a special guest for the second half
1302
01:06:38.250 --> 01:06:41.329
of the podcast. Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone else
1303
01:06:41.349 --> 01:06:43.670
who works in the business. Other times it's a guest
1304
01:06:43.789 --> 01:06:46.610
analyst who brings their specialized point of view on a
1305
01:06:46.659 --> 01:06:50.030
particular key topic in the news. Recent guests have included
1306
01:06:50.090 --> 01:06:53.230
Bronson Reed from WWE and PCO. One of my areas
1307
01:06:53.289 --> 01:06:55.969
of specialty is the Japan wrestling scene, so I often
1308
01:06:56.030 --> 01:06:59.050
cover a big topic from Japan with PW Torch's own
1309
01:06:59.170 --> 01:07:02.820
Alan Farrell, Kelly Wells, and Chris Lansdell. I don't just
1310
01:07:02.900 --> 01:07:05.139
cover the news. I don't just riff on the news
1311
01:07:05.219 --> 01:07:07.659
or give a standard hot take. I'll bring my decades
1312
01:07:07.719 --> 01:07:11.280
of studying this industry and talking one-on-one with dozens of
1313
01:07:11.360 --> 01:07:14.699
wrestling promoters to each week's show so you understand not
1314
01:07:14.760 --> 01:07:17.829
just what's happening, but the context of why. Get ahead
1315
01:07:17.849 --> 01:07:20.329
of the news. Get ahead of the pack with Ratican
1316
01:07:20.349 --> 01:07:24.110
Worldwide only at PWTorch VIP.
1317
01:07:26.630 --> 01:07:29.349
All right, John, with that teaser in mind, let's transition
1318
01:07:29.389 --> 01:07:32.130
into it. On Monday night, we didn't really talk about
1319
01:07:32.150 --> 01:07:35.670
this yet, CM Punk brought up The Rock video. The
1320
01:07:35.710 --> 01:07:39.300
Rock tears down John Cena. Since then, CM Punk took
1321
01:07:39.340 --> 01:07:41.420
some digs at The Rock. I don't know if you
1322
01:07:41.440 --> 01:07:44.219
heard the details of that on Mark Madden's show, saying,
1323
01:07:44.239 --> 01:07:46.719
you know, everyone's giving Rock credit for WrestleMania, but, you know,
1324
01:07:46.760 --> 01:07:50.469
he sucked on WrestleMania. He didn't do anything good. And
1325
01:07:50.909 --> 01:07:53.309
Rock earlier had said, CM Punk hasn't drawn a dime
1326
01:07:53.329 --> 01:07:56.070
in his business. If he wrestles 20 WrestleMania, he'll never
1327
01:07:56.090 --> 01:07:58.329
draw what I did. I mean, it comes across like
1328
01:07:58.349 --> 01:08:01.329
there's some legit heat there that falls outside of two
1329
01:08:01.409 --> 01:08:03.849
friends saying, let's set up a mythical match in the future.
1330
01:08:04.860 --> 01:08:06.659
Have you gotten a sense of what the attitude is
1331
01:08:07.579 --> 01:08:10.079
with Rock? And if you think there is kind of
1332
01:08:10.119 --> 01:08:14.860
an us against this Hollywood guy mentality behind the scenes?
1333
01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:19.039
No, I just think that these are things that you
1334
01:08:19.060 --> 01:08:22.130
hear from people. You know, people talk behind people's back
1335
01:08:22.189 --> 01:08:25.029
and people have opinions of people. I mean, just kind
1336
01:08:25.050 --> 01:08:27.590
of like what I said about Sean, I'm sure, you know,
1337
01:08:27.729 --> 01:08:30.539
if someone went to him and said, this guy said
1338
01:08:30.619 --> 01:08:34.060
this specifically about you and he had an opinion about me,
1339
01:08:34.119 --> 01:08:36.760
he could say something back. You know, these are all
1340
01:08:36.800 --> 01:08:38.659
things that never really came out, and I just think
1341
01:08:38.680 --> 01:08:40.699
that CM Punk is the type of guy where if
1342
01:08:40.739 --> 01:08:42.319
you ask him a question, he's going to tell you
1343
01:08:42.359 --> 01:08:45.979
exactly what he feels. There's no sugarcoating, and I think
1344
01:08:46.020 --> 01:08:48.770
that being The Rock and hearing that is probably going
1345
01:08:48.779 --> 01:08:51.029
to go back and say what he wants to say.
1346
01:08:51.449 --> 01:08:53.670
I think kind of the filters are off. I don't
1347
01:08:53.689 --> 01:08:56.770
think it's, I really don't think it's us against them.
1348
01:08:56.829 --> 01:09:00.199
I don't think that anyone, from what I gathered, looks
1349
01:09:00.239 --> 01:09:02.380
at Rock and goes, oh, this is this Hollywood guy
1350
01:09:02.399 --> 01:09:04.520
who's going to come back. I think a lot of
1351
01:09:04.560 --> 01:09:08.340
people were fans of the Rock, but I just think that,
1352
01:09:08.500 --> 01:09:11.699
you know, I think personally that people are going, look,
1353
01:09:11.859 --> 01:09:15.350
I'm here, I'm busting my butt. I should be at
1354
01:09:15.390 --> 01:09:18.670
least given the opportunity to try to have that spot
1355
01:09:18.689 --> 01:09:21.680
and But to say automatically I'm not getting it just
1356
01:09:21.720 --> 01:09:25.810
because of who he is, I think that pisses people off.
1357
01:09:26.329 --> 01:09:30.109
And I think that Rock looks at it and goes, hey,
1358
01:09:30.869 --> 01:09:33.050
don't blame me. They brought me in because it's guys
1359
01:09:33.109 --> 01:09:35.470
like you who can't draw. And that's why they called me.
1360
01:09:35.489 --> 01:09:38.170
And that's why they're whatever they gave him to convince
1361
01:09:38.210 --> 01:09:42.250
him to finally come back. But I don't know.
1362
01:09:42.270 --> 01:09:43.789
I don't know.
1363
01:09:44.050 --> 01:09:44.369
I don't know.
1364
01:09:46.760 --> 01:09:49.090
I don't know how productive it is to have these
1365
01:09:49.189 --> 01:09:53.130
top stars for the sake of trending on Twitter or
1366
01:09:53.270 --> 01:09:57.170
getting a crowd pop or having hardcore fans. I'm just
1367
01:09:57.229 --> 01:10:01.119
not sure if it makes sense to have them tearing
1368
01:10:01.140 --> 01:10:04.439
each other apart. It's like watching mom and dad fight.
1369
01:10:04.579 --> 01:10:07.729
You're just like... And I know people who love Paul
1370
01:10:07.789 --> 01:10:09.750
and Kate Cena, and they're like, yeah. And I even
1371
01:10:09.770 --> 01:10:12.869
thought watching Monday night, Cena had good enough comebacks and
1372
01:10:13.210 --> 01:10:15.430
seemed to roll with the punches enough. He didn't seem
1373
01:10:15.449 --> 01:10:18.109
to be affected by them on camera, because I think
1374
01:10:18.149 --> 01:10:21.510
Cena is supremely confident as a person. And if some
1375
01:10:21.550 --> 01:10:23.479
of those shots came at him as a surprise, I
1376
01:10:23.489 --> 01:10:26.479
think he's thinking, I'm sitting on a bank account with $ 5,
1377
01:10:26.250 --> 01:10:31.039
$ 10 million in it, and I'm just not worried about
1378
01:10:31.060 --> 01:10:33.300
my spot, and my fans are going to follow. The
1379
01:10:33.359 --> 01:10:36.850
more insults you send my way, and he's trying to
1380
01:10:36.890 --> 01:10:40.909
take away the sting of the jorts, the jean shorts,
1381
01:10:41.010 --> 01:10:44.090
and the multicolored outfits. He's trying to make fun of
1382
01:10:44.130 --> 01:10:46.109
himself for that, to take the ammunition away from Rock.
1383
01:10:46.989 --> 01:10:49.140
So I think Cena had enough comebacks and felt confident
1384
01:10:49.149 --> 01:10:51.500
enough that even his fans would go, he held his
1385
01:10:51.560 --> 01:10:53.779
own there against those people trying to tear him down.
1386
01:10:53.859 --> 01:10:56.359
But at some point it just seems like you can't
1387
01:10:56.399 --> 01:10:59.260
do this forever. You can't have Rock and Cena tearing
1388
01:10:59.279 --> 01:11:01.479
each other down and expect fans to look at them
1389
01:11:01.520 --> 01:11:03.859
the same way or have Punk tearing Rock down and
1390
01:11:03.920 --> 01:11:06.300
Rock tearing Punk down I don't know, it's just a
1391
01:11:06.359 --> 01:11:09.979
weird time when these three top stars are all, and
1392
01:11:10.060 --> 01:11:12.659
even Randy Orton taking shots at The Rock and siding
1393
01:11:12.689 --> 01:11:16.789
with Cena. It just seems weird. I don't know. It's
1394
01:11:16.829 --> 01:11:21.649
like the housewives of WWE, the male wrestler version.
1395
01:11:22.630 --> 01:11:23.989
Hey, maybe that's what they're going for.
1396
01:11:24.609 --> 01:11:28.180
Maybe they are. I'd like to see it draw some
1397
01:11:28.220 --> 01:11:31.060
ratings and attendance. I don't know. I don't know. I
1398
01:11:31.779 --> 01:11:33.760
just think I'm kind of confused like a lot of
1399
01:11:33.779 --> 01:11:36.119
fans are about, you know, Why am I supposed to
1400
01:11:36.180 --> 01:11:37.899
like these people if all I hear are these horrible
1401
01:11:37.920 --> 01:11:38.380
things about them?
1402
01:11:39.239 --> 01:11:41.060
I think a lot of it has to do with, though,
1403
01:11:41.260 --> 01:11:44.760
and I'm not insulting anyone by saying this, but they
1404
01:11:44.800 --> 01:11:47.439
know that the buzz is The Rock, and if they
1405
01:11:47.520 --> 01:11:49.859
involve themselves with The Rock, then their name will get
1406
01:11:49.899 --> 01:11:53.430
mentioned with them. And maybe there is that part of them, too,
1407
01:11:53.470 --> 01:11:55.609
that go, of course, The Rock comes back. Of course
1408
01:11:55.670 --> 01:11:57.590
it's Cena. Why isn't it me? Why can't I have
1409
01:11:57.630 --> 01:12:00.350
the opportunity? And so they just kind of insert themselves
1410
01:12:00.430 --> 01:12:03.850
in there to get some of that. and maybe the
1411
01:12:03.899 --> 01:12:07.880
hopes of people saying, oh, I want Punk versus Rock,
1412
01:12:07.899 --> 01:12:10.579
or I want Orton versus Rock, or whoever else would
1413
01:12:10.640 --> 01:12:12.760
go out there. I'm not saying that that's what they're doing,
1414
01:12:12.819 --> 01:12:15.560
but they might be smart if that's what they were doing.
1415
01:12:17.090 --> 01:12:20.489
Looking at the rest of Raw on Monday, the filler,
1416
01:12:21.149 --> 01:12:23.310
some people who are fans of CM Punk and this
1417
01:12:23.409 --> 01:12:26.350
angle are saying, quit blaming Punk, or even Triple H
1418
01:12:26.369 --> 01:12:28.829
for that matter, for the ratings being flat and down
1419
01:12:28.909 --> 01:12:31.909
since this whole angle started. it's the middle of the show.
1420
01:12:32.170 --> 01:12:35.750
The middle of the show is so bad. From watching Raw,
1421
01:12:35.949 --> 01:12:38.770
they're giving away, quote, a lot, but I don't think
1422
01:12:38.829 --> 01:12:41.510
it adds up to much anymore. Cena, Swagger, they threw
1423
01:12:41.550 --> 01:12:43.529
it out there. No sense of what Swagger had on
1424
01:12:43.550 --> 01:12:46.130
the line. When Cena wins in five minutes, no sense
1425
01:12:46.170 --> 01:12:48.800
that that was even an accomplishment for Cena or a
1426
01:12:48.840 --> 01:12:51.399
setback for Swagger. It's just immediately on to the next thing.
1427
01:12:51.840 --> 01:12:55.420
And then Punk beats Del Rio and a short amount
1428
01:12:55.460 --> 01:12:57.840
of time that I thought was kind of, you know, eyebrow-raising,
1429
01:12:58.439 --> 01:13:01.439
maybe to lower people's expectations that Del Rio will walk
1430
01:13:01.479 --> 01:13:03.840
out of SummerSlam with a belt, cashing in, or to
1431
01:13:03.899 --> 01:13:06.060
set up Del Rio with a belt so that when
1432
01:13:06.140 --> 01:13:08.590
Punk challenges him, whatever it is, he seems beatable, which
1433
01:13:08.619 --> 01:13:10.659
is kind of an old WWE philosophy going back to
1434
01:13:10.689 --> 01:13:14.510
the 80s, at least. And then Dolph and Alex Riley
1435
01:13:14.529 --> 01:13:17.170
getting some TV time, and R-Truth and John Morrison getting
1436
01:13:17.189 --> 01:13:19.500
TV time, but... I don't know, when you look at
1437
01:13:19.520 --> 01:13:21.439
the middle of the card, how does it feel different
1438
01:13:21.500 --> 01:13:24.779
to you than in 2009 and 2010? The part of
1439
01:13:24.800 --> 01:13:28.090
the show that isn't where Vince McMahon's focus is, but
1440
01:13:28.149 --> 01:13:31.550
maybe the writing team has a little more influence. What's
1441
01:13:31.569 --> 01:13:33.489
your opinion on what they're doing to fill out that
1442
01:13:33.529 --> 01:13:34.069
middle portion?
1443
01:13:36.010 --> 01:13:38.529
I think they're trying. I think they're trying to find
1444
01:13:39.770 --> 01:13:43.399
compelling characters and stories to kind of fill in the blank,
1445
01:13:43.439 --> 01:13:46.260
but I just think that I think a viewing audience
1446
01:13:46.340 --> 01:13:51.420
just gets so used to something that's been for who
1447
01:13:51.439 --> 01:13:54.159
knows how long it's been going on. When I know
1448
01:13:54.220 --> 01:13:56.279
that I do not, that if I tune in for
1449
01:13:56.300 --> 01:14:00.590
the first 15 minutes, then I will know what I
1450
01:14:00.619 --> 01:14:02.569
have to see at the end of the night. And
1451
01:14:02.609 --> 01:14:06.010
if I'm interested, I'll come back. Because I know that
1452
01:14:06.069 --> 01:14:08.729
in the middle of the show, it's just filler. There's
1453
01:14:08.850 --> 01:14:11.590
nothing going on. You don't commit to telling stories. You
1454
01:14:11.609 --> 01:14:15.210
don't commit to good matches. backstage stuff that's not funny
1455
01:14:15.590 --> 01:14:17.949
and then I'll come back at the last 15 minutes
1456
01:14:18.680 --> 01:14:22.220
and you know in the case of like always promoting
1457
01:14:22.260 --> 01:14:25.380
sort of going to like the same five things to
1458
01:14:25.460 --> 01:14:27.819
end the show it's a contract signing or it's a
1459
01:14:27.859 --> 01:14:31.189
tag match between you know the two top matches or
1460
01:14:31.199 --> 01:14:35.050
a face off or whatever it is that they normally
1461
01:14:35.109 --> 01:14:37.890
do I think that that's when you get people to
1462
01:14:37.930 --> 01:14:42.100
go okay, well, it's going to be a contract signing. Well,
1463
01:14:42.119 --> 01:14:43.979
how do I want contract signing in? They're going to
1464
01:14:44.000 --> 01:14:45.359
go in there, they're going to talk, they're going to
1465
01:14:45.390 --> 01:14:47.189
fight each other, you're going to go off the air
1466
01:14:47.229 --> 01:14:49.739
with one guy standing outside the ring, one guy in it,
1467
01:14:50.010 --> 01:14:53.369
and then people kind of always probably thought, all right,
1468
01:14:53.409 --> 01:14:54.489
maybe this one will be different.
1469
01:14:54.590 --> 01:14:55.250
Oh, no, it wasn't.
1470
01:14:55.350 --> 01:14:57.189
Okay, maybe the next one will. And then it's not,
1471
01:14:57.229 --> 01:14:59.710
and they just go, all right, not interested. I think
1472
01:14:59.750 --> 01:15:02.109
that they're just used to this, and until you do
1473
01:15:02.170 --> 01:15:07.470
something different, consistently, I think that people will just– know
1474
01:15:07.510 --> 01:15:09.789
what to expect, and when they see it, they have
1475
01:15:09.850 --> 01:15:13.409
no reason to tune in. I mean, here's the other thing, too,
1476
01:15:13.529 --> 01:15:15.369
and I think the thing with Punk is that as
1477
01:15:15.449 --> 01:15:19.399
compelling as he is as a guy right now or
1478
01:15:19.420 --> 01:15:22.060
a character on the show, even with a mic, it's
1479
01:15:22.340 --> 01:15:23.899
the fact that they.
1480
01:15:27.699 --> 01:15:29.600
I said this, I think we've talked about this before,
1481
01:15:29.640 --> 01:15:32.520
the minute Nexus got contracts, it took away everything, and
1482
01:15:32.550 --> 01:15:34.770
the thing is, the second that CM Punk came back,
1483
01:15:35.850 --> 01:15:37.520
Why do I care what he has to say? Because
1484
01:15:37.560 --> 01:15:39.720
now I know that it's all at work. And, yeah,
1485
01:15:39.760 --> 01:15:41.739
he may say things like, oh, man, he brought up
1486
01:15:42.420 --> 01:15:43.380
Vladimir Kozlov.
1487
01:15:43.880 --> 01:15:44.159
Wow.
1488
01:15:44.220 --> 01:15:46.800
But it's like, really? I mean, is that really that
1489
01:15:46.819 --> 01:15:48.920
big of a deal that he brought up that someone
1490
01:15:48.960 --> 01:15:52.640
was released? I mean, I just think that there's– you
1491
01:15:53.039 --> 01:15:57.020
stripped– you talked about this, too, because you have no follow-up.
1492
01:15:57.399 --> 01:16:00.420
You stripped what he was the second he came back
1493
01:16:00.460 --> 01:16:03.340
and he said, oh, hey, I'm back. I took some perks,
1494
01:16:03.399 --> 01:16:07.319
but I'm back. You stripped everything that made him compelling. And,
1495
01:16:07.359 --> 01:16:10.520
I mean, he's still great. I watched that segment, and
1496
01:16:10.579 --> 01:16:12.819
I was thoroughly entertained by Punk. But I'm just talking
1497
01:16:12.859 --> 01:16:17.510
about from people that walked away that might come back.
1498
01:16:18.010 --> 01:16:21.270
They're looking at it going, oh, okay, I'm watching this
1499
01:16:21.329 --> 01:16:24.609
Park thing. This is great. And then they go, oh, shoot, no,
1500
01:16:24.789 --> 01:16:26.569
it's just the same thing.
1501
01:16:26.609 --> 01:16:27.250
I can't hear you over John.
1502
01:16:27.270 --> 01:16:28.350
Okay.
1503
01:16:28.750 --> 01:16:28.970
Okay.
1504
01:16:30.689 --> 01:16:32.630
You know that last segment you're just listening to and
1505
01:16:32.670 --> 01:16:34.689
the next one that you're waiting to listen to? Those
1506
01:16:34.750 --> 01:16:37.229
can be one second apart with a VIP membership. You
1507
01:16:37.250 --> 01:16:41.409
can unlock our commercial-free versions of our shows. PWTorch.com slash
1508
01:16:41.449 --> 01:16:46.180
GoVIP tells you how to do it. That's PWTorch.com slash GoVIP.
1509
01:16:46.520 --> 01:16:50.239
Options exist within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple account,
1510
01:16:50.380 --> 01:16:52.319
through Patreon, which, by the way, you can sync up
1511
01:16:52.340 --> 01:16:55.510
with Spotify, or just about any iOS or Android app
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01:16:55.689 --> 01:16:58.500
with a full VIP membership. You can customize the feed
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01:16:58.539 --> 01:17:01.880
for individual shows and clusters of shows and themes. Go
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01:17:01.920 --> 01:17:05.560
to pwtorch.com slash govip for full details on all the
1515
01:17:05.699 --> 01:17:10.050
options to listen commercial-free. And with upper-tier options, unlock our
1516
01:17:10.130 --> 01:17:12.989
VIP-exclusive podcasts that run throughout the week every week.
1517
01:17:15.369 --> 01:17:17.149
One thing that was brought up at the very beginning
1518
01:17:17.180 --> 01:17:19.380
of the show, and I wanted to follow up on this,
1519
01:17:20.680 --> 01:17:23.979
is the caller Ian asked about radio show appearances, or
1520
01:17:24.000 --> 01:17:25.939
talk show appearances, I should say, from Seamus and Miz.
1521
01:17:27.060 --> 01:17:29.960
And Miz is on TV saying, I should be the
1522
01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:32.159
face of WWE. And he made the case, Rey Mysterio,
1523
01:17:32.699 --> 01:17:34.739
you know, shouldn't be because he wears a mask and
1524
01:17:34.779 --> 01:17:36.729
he can't do these talk shows and I can. And
1525
01:17:36.770 --> 01:17:38.909
he's bragging about how, I mean, what he's kind of
1526
01:17:38.949 --> 01:17:42.630
implying is I should be the champion because I can
1527
01:17:42.670 --> 01:17:48.010
do good media work for you. I don't, I'm not
1528
01:17:48.069 --> 01:17:52.029
sure they've, He's brought me over into understanding where that
1529
01:17:52.149 --> 01:17:55.670
would work within the WWE universe. It's like he's saying
1530
01:17:55.770 --> 01:18:00.350
I should be cast. His argument to the fans as
1531
01:18:00.409 --> 01:18:03.229
a heel is I should be cast as the champion,
1532
01:18:03.710 --> 01:18:07.779
not a fifth from the top contender because I can
1533
01:18:07.800 --> 01:18:10.840
do talk shows. That's like in the middle of watching
1534
01:18:10.859 --> 01:18:13.859
a TV show, somebody saying I shouldn't be playing the
1535
01:18:13.920 --> 01:18:16.539
sister with only three lines per show. I'd be better
1536
01:18:16.619 --> 01:18:20.409
as the wife. of the main character getting 10, 12
1537
01:18:20.409 --> 01:18:23.010
minutes per show, it's like you wouldn't expect to hear that,
1538
01:18:23.630 --> 01:18:26.409
the pitch to the producer, saying, I want a bigger
1539
01:18:26.449 --> 01:18:28.739
part based on the fact that I'd be a better
1540
01:18:28.779 --> 01:18:30.500
fit for the role. And that's kind of what Miz
1541
01:18:30.539 --> 01:18:32.939
is doing. Shouldn't it still all come back to, I
1542
01:18:33.000 --> 01:18:35.180
should be getting title shots because I'm winning my matches,
1543
01:18:35.500 --> 01:18:38.659
because I'm better than the champions, and why are they
1544
01:18:38.720 --> 01:18:42.350
scared to give me the title shot? It's a weird approach,
1545
01:18:42.390 --> 01:18:44.529
and I'm not quite sure how to digest how that
1546
01:18:44.670 --> 01:18:48.000
works Other than in and of itself, it's like Miz
1547
01:18:48.039 --> 01:18:50.689
gets to talk in an entertaining way. but does that
1548
01:18:50.770 --> 01:18:54.060
really make any sense in the context of Miz's character
1549
01:18:54.109 --> 01:18:57.100
in the universe WWE creates am I am I missing
1550
01:18:57.159 --> 01:18:58.819
something or is there a dot they still need to
1551
01:18:58.840 --> 01:19:01.760
connect um I think.
1552
01:19:01.739 --> 01:19:05.880
I think you're right um but I think that kind
1553
01:19:05.920 --> 01:19:11.829
of where he's going is that um I'm going out
1554
01:19:11.869 --> 01:19:15.670
there and I'm doing these appearances and everybody wants me
1555
01:19:15.850 --> 01:19:19.390
and I'm drawing more. I can get more eyeballs onto
1556
01:19:19.409 --> 01:19:24.560
the company than a Rey Mysterio, than a John Cena,
1557
01:19:24.579 --> 01:19:27.979
than whoever based off. what I'm doing and selling our
1558
01:19:28.000 --> 01:19:30.880
product and selling myself going on these shows. And I
1559
01:19:30.960 --> 01:19:34.539
think that from a storyline standpoint, he's going, if you
1560
01:19:34.619 --> 01:19:38.779
guys want to sell out arenas, if you guys want
1561
01:19:38.840 --> 01:19:44.029
to sell pay-per-views, if you want to sell merchandise or
1562
01:19:44.069 --> 01:19:48.750
whatever it may be, why not put the guy that's
1563
01:19:48.770 --> 01:19:52.710
the most successful person on the top? And I think
1564
01:19:52.770 --> 01:19:55.710
as a heel, that kind of works. I mean, he's going...
1565
01:19:56.500 --> 01:19:59.010
You could go with, you know, we're in L.A. and
1566
01:19:59.149 --> 01:20:01.670
I'm booked solid and I can't walk outside my house
1567
01:20:01.710 --> 01:20:05.289
without TMZ cameras all over me. And yet you don't
1568
01:20:05.470 --> 01:20:08.430
feel like I should be headlining your pay-per-view. I'm what
1569
01:20:08.510 --> 01:20:13.079
everybody wants. I'm what the WWE universe wants. And I
1570
01:20:13.100 --> 01:20:16.060
think that's where you miss the, whether you agree with
1571
01:20:16.100 --> 01:20:18.220
that or don't, I think that it could be explained
1572
01:20:18.260 --> 01:20:20.619
better in that sense in the writing, which it's not.
1573
01:20:21.409 --> 01:20:23.609
And instead, it just sounds like this guy who goes,
1574
01:20:23.970 --> 01:20:26.369
I do better interviews, so I should be WWE champion. Well,
1575
01:20:26.390 --> 01:20:29.569
I think that what he means is not, I do
1576
01:20:29.590 --> 01:20:32.819
better interviews, give me the title. It's, I'm what everybody wants.
1577
01:20:32.979 --> 01:20:35.760
I can make this company successful. I should have all
1578
01:20:35.800 --> 01:20:39.020
these title matches. I'm going to make this brand better
1579
01:20:39.119 --> 01:20:41.520
with the title on me, because I'm going to be
1580
01:20:41.539 --> 01:20:44.350
the star of the show, and I'm what everybody wants to.
1581
01:20:44.310 --> 01:20:44.750
Be the star.
1582
01:20:46.149 --> 01:20:50.350
To me, that's like hearing a backup NFL quarterback saying,
1583
01:20:50.710 --> 01:20:54.130
I give better post-game interviews, and I'm really popular with
1584
01:20:54.949 --> 01:20:58.670
the Fox pregame show team, and I sell more jerseys,
1585
01:20:58.689 --> 01:21:01.409
so I should be the starting quarterback, even if it's
1586
01:21:01.479 --> 01:21:03.920
pretty evident that he's not the better quarterback. What am
1587
01:21:04.119 --> 01:21:07.119
I– I still seem to be missing– That's.
1588
01:21:06.939 --> 01:21:09.319
What they're doing right now. That's the big thing with
1589
01:21:09.359 --> 01:21:13.520
Tim Tebow is– Is Denver making decisions based on the
1590
01:21:13.579 --> 01:21:15.899
fact that he sells more jerseys than anybody else in
1591
01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:19.880
the NFL, that people come to the practices and they're
1592
01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:22.680
calling for his name as opposed to Kyle Orton, who's
1593
01:21:22.800 --> 01:21:27.850
obviously the better quarterback? How does that translate from a
1594
01:21:27.890 --> 01:21:32.810
business standpoint? Let's just say, for example, if they said, hey,
1595
01:21:32.890 --> 01:21:39.569
Kyle Orton is the quarterback and they You have people
1596
01:21:39.670 --> 01:21:44.729
not coming back for season tickets, or you have lowered attendance,
1597
01:21:45.109 --> 01:21:47.210
or whatever the case may be, and then you go,
1598
01:21:47.229 --> 01:21:48.909
all right, all right, all right, we're going to make
1599
01:21:48.949 --> 01:21:52.229
Tim Tebow the quarterback. Now you get those ticket sales back.
1600
01:21:52.270 --> 01:21:54.779
You get all these things. I think that's kind of
1601
01:21:55.819 --> 01:22:00.800
a good comparison in a business standpoint of going, I'm
1602
01:22:00.819 --> 01:22:03.659
the guy everybody wants to see. Why aren't you making
1603
01:22:03.699 --> 01:22:04.479
me the focal point?
1604
01:22:05.680 --> 01:22:08.029
Yeah, I mean, you sway me a little just because
1605
01:22:08.229 --> 01:22:10.350
it's happened a little bit in real sports.
1606
01:22:10.890 --> 01:22:14.109
I'm not saying it's the ideal situation.
1607
01:22:14.260 --> 01:22:15.000
I'm just trying to.
1608
01:22:14.979 --> 01:22:18.029
Make it work. And I think it's more if Miz
1609
01:22:18.050 --> 01:22:20.409
was the only one doing it, you know, it'd be like, okay,
1610
01:22:20.529 --> 01:22:22.560
you know, he's a heel. And then you would have
1611
01:22:22.600 --> 01:22:25.380
Jim Ross saying, that's ridiculous. Miz, you need to go
1612
01:22:25.439 --> 01:22:27.659
out and win matches. This isn't about who can dazzle
1613
01:22:28.619 --> 01:22:32.000
Jimmy Kimmel or Jimmy Fallon or go out, you know,
1614
01:22:32.020 --> 01:22:34.439
end up on TMZ with some, you know, this isn't
1615
01:22:34.479 --> 01:22:36.399
about that. It's about winning the match in the ring.
1616
01:22:36.439 --> 01:22:40.119
And I think that's the fundamental core thing that's going
1617
01:22:40.149 --> 01:22:42.130
to help them draw on pay-per-view and really make the
1618
01:22:42.170 --> 01:22:44.310
matches on TV that they hope people tune in to
1619
01:22:44.350 --> 01:22:47.340
see more is making it seem like, hey, if Miz
1620
01:22:47.359 --> 01:22:49.319
wins his matches, that's how he gets to the top,
1621
01:22:49.359 --> 01:22:51.180
no matter how much he wants to talk about the
1622
01:22:51.199 --> 01:22:57.300
other stuff. It's almost backwards in the sense that what
1623
01:22:57.380 --> 01:23:00.760
Miz– it's like if you tweaked it and said, I'm
1624
01:23:00.880 --> 01:23:03.479
showing up, John Cena, when I do talk show appearances,
1625
01:23:03.510 --> 01:23:06.630
and they're scared to give me a title shot because
1626
01:23:06.930 --> 01:23:11.020
they're afraid when I do the talk shows– I'm going
1627
01:23:11.060 --> 01:23:13.579
to become a bigger star than John Cena because I'm
1628
01:23:13.619 --> 01:23:16.159
much more entertaining than he is, and they're keeping me
1629
01:23:16.199 --> 01:23:18.720
from a title shot because of that. Then at least
1630
01:23:18.760 --> 01:23:21.760
there's some sort of storyline explanation. I'd be sort of
1631
01:23:21.800 --> 01:23:25.550
like a backup quarterback saying, well, I wasn't drafted by
1632
01:23:25.590 --> 01:23:28.649
this coach. This other quarterback who's getting way more snaps
1633
01:23:28.710 --> 01:23:31.649
in practice and the pregame shows, he's getting all the
1634
01:23:31.710 --> 01:23:34.989
snaps because the coach drafted him, and he wants that
1635
01:23:35.029 --> 01:23:36.949
guy to do better, but I should be playing and
1636
01:23:36.989 --> 01:23:39.560
I shouldn't be punished because just because I wasn't his
1637
01:23:39.619 --> 01:23:42.479
darling pick out of college. And I could see Miz
1638
01:23:42.520 --> 01:23:44.680
making that argument, but not, I'm more entertaining, therefore I
1639
01:23:44.699 --> 01:23:46.859
deserve a title shot. I think that's a part that
1640
01:23:46.899 --> 01:23:50.930
kind of shows me symptomatically what has been lost in
1641
01:23:50.949 --> 01:23:53.010
the last 10, 15 years that used to be the
1642
01:23:53.050 --> 01:23:56.369
absolute core of what made this combat art work as
1643
01:23:56.409 --> 01:23:56.829
a business.
1644
01:23:57.689 --> 01:23:59.489
I don't disagree. I think that needs to be the
1645
01:23:59.569 --> 01:24:03.119
core of everybody's motivation, but I think that... you could add,
1646
01:24:03.180 --> 01:24:06.659
you know, to, you got Alberto Del Rio. Well, I'm great,
1647
01:24:06.770 --> 01:24:09.350
but it's also my destiny. And I'm, this is something
1648
01:24:09.390 --> 01:24:10.270
that I deserve.
1649
01:24:10.689 --> 01:24:10.829
Yeah.
1650
01:24:10.850 --> 01:24:12.170
You got, you know, Ms.
1651
01:24:12.189 --> 01:24:13.069
Who could do the same thing.
1652
01:24:13.090 --> 01:24:13.310
Yes.
1653
01:24:13.369 --> 01:24:15.550
I'm winning matches, but I'm also going to be the
1654
01:24:15.590 --> 01:24:18.029
biggest star, you know, and he could even go one
1655
01:24:18.069 --> 01:24:19.770
step further and go look at the guy in charge.
1656
01:24:19.789 --> 01:24:21.489
He's always wanted to be the biggest star in this
1657
01:24:21.529 --> 01:24:24.590
company of all time, but he won't give me an
1658
01:24:24.649 --> 01:24:26.189
opportunity because he knows I will.
1659
01:24:27.420 --> 01:24:30.539
Um, also, uh, Jim Ross back on commentary the last
1660
01:24:30.640 --> 01:24:34.579
two weeks, um, trying to eke out some mic time
1661
01:24:34.619 --> 01:24:38.039
with Michael Cole and Jerry Lawler. What are your thoughts
1662
01:24:38.079 --> 01:24:39.119
on what you've heard of the commentary?
1663
01:24:40.020 --> 01:24:44.619
Has he even added anything? I remember watching it this
1664
01:24:44.680 --> 01:24:47.390
last week, and it's not like he's really making an
1665
01:24:47.470 --> 01:24:51.270
effort to really change, which is probably what they want
1666
01:24:51.289 --> 01:24:53.489
him to do, is just chime in when you can
1667
01:24:53.510 --> 01:24:56.630
chime in with stuff. But, I mean, people were begging
1668
01:24:56.670 --> 01:24:59.149
for him back, thinking that he was going to bring–
1669
01:24:59.439 --> 01:25:03.640
this great addition to commentary, and he's not really doing it.
1670
01:25:03.720 --> 01:25:04.300
What do you think?
1671
01:25:05.180 --> 01:25:09.819
Well, I think Michael Cole is introducing the show as
1672
01:25:09.859 --> 01:25:13.199
a straight man announcer and then playing his buffoon character
1673
01:25:13.920 --> 01:25:18.010
during the show and really, I think, kind of getting
1674
01:25:18.020 --> 01:25:19.909
himself over at the expense sometimes of the angles. And
1675
01:25:20.310 --> 01:25:22.949
Jim Ross should be the play-by-play guy. I mean, does
1676
01:25:22.989 --> 01:25:25.289
Ross come in, and he said he loves being back
1677
01:25:25.329 --> 01:25:27.789
and he wants to stay around. And so they've got
1678
01:25:27.829 --> 01:25:30.170
leverage on him. He's got to know his role and
1679
01:25:30.210 --> 01:25:32.470
play his role, and Cole is the new senior guy
1680
01:25:32.850 --> 01:25:35.670
who's going to do the final pitch or introduce the
1681
01:25:35.710 --> 01:25:36.930
show in the final pitch. What I don't get is
1682
01:25:36.970 --> 01:25:40.380
Josh Matthews is introducing SmackDown, but Jim Ross, who's hosted
1683
01:25:40.409 --> 01:25:44.359
more Raws than Cole, and pretty much every big-name wrestler
1684
01:25:44.380 --> 01:25:47.180
would rather have Ross announcing his match than anybody based
1685
01:25:47.300 --> 01:25:48.939
on the fact that he's the best in the business.
1686
01:25:48.979 --> 01:25:51.020
And I just think things about Jim Ross behind the
1687
01:25:51.039 --> 01:25:54.449
scenes and– A variety of things have led to them
1688
01:25:54.529 --> 01:25:57.270
not being objective about the fact that nobody can sell
1689
01:25:57.399 --> 01:25:59.300
a match or a pay-per-view or elevate a match or
1690
01:25:59.319 --> 01:26:02.439
a pay-per-view or get a younger wrestler over as opposed
1691
01:26:02.479 --> 01:26:05.539
to himself and his heel character than Jim Ross. And
1692
01:26:05.979 --> 01:26:08.439
I just think if you're going to bring him back,
1693
01:26:08.479 --> 01:26:11.949
have Michael Cole either be a manager or enhance... the
1694
01:26:12.020 --> 01:26:15.119
show through heel commentary but make it clear that ross
1695
01:26:15.180 --> 01:26:18.279
is there to point out the ridiculous call heels out
1696
01:26:18.319 --> 01:26:21.180
for being jerks and not honorable and make a case
1697
01:26:21.220 --> 01:26:23.760
for why fans should cheer for the people who have
1698
01:26:23.819 --> 01:26:25.460
the type of honor that you would want from your
1699
01:26:25.500 --> 01:26:27.460
friends and your neighbors and i just think that voice
1700
01:26:27.500 --> 01:26:29.100
is missing and i think michael cole's all over the
1701
01:26:29.140 --> 01:26:31.600
place and it sends mixed messages and it's it's just
1702
01:26:31.899 --> 01:26:33.800
i think the announcing of the disaster with or without
1703
01:26:33.840 --> 01:26:35.319
ross right now yeah i.
1704
01:26:35.300 --> 01:26:37.840
Think that maybe vince is just bored with everything that's
1705
01:26:37.880 --> 01:26:46.600
happening between 9, 16, and 10, 45. And so it's just, hey,
1706
01:26:46.800 --> 01:26:50.659
at least in his opinion, Michael Cole is entertaining. It's
1707
01:26:50.739 --> 01:26:52.880
more entertaining than what we're seeing in the ring or
1708
01:26:52.920 --> 01:26:55.659
the talent that's in the ring. So go with it.
1709
01:26:55.770 --> 01:26:59.970
The problem is Michael Cole just isn't good. So you're
1710
01:27:00.010 --> 01:27:01.170
not doing either of the two.
1711
01:27:01.649 --> 01:27:06.090
See, to me, entertaining is having two wrestlers do their
1712
01:27:06.130 --> 01:27:07.829
thing in the ring and have an announcer not get
1713
01:27:07.850 --> 01:27:11.470
in the way of it. That's entertaining. And when that's
1714
01:27:11.529 --> 01:27:14.810
not your goal, to let the wrestlers tell their story
1715
01:27:15.270 --> 01:27:17.670
in the ring and through promos before and afterwards, but
1716
01:27:17.770 --> 01:27:20.670
now it's, as Paul Heyman put up in his blog today,
1717
01:27:20.710 --> 01:27:23.189
it's an audience of one all over again. And that
1718
01:27:23.329 --> 01:27:25.439
one is Vince McMahon. And so much of what we
1719
01:27:25.460 --> 01:27:27.199
see on the show is, you know, it's like I
1720
01:27:27.659 --> 01:27:30.460
said before, Vince needs some just friends, like where he
1721
01:27:30.479 --> 01:27:34.119
can do this off-air. And so he doesn't need to
1722
01:27:34.479 --> 01:27:37.119
get his, you know, have his, like a lot of friends,
1723
01:27:37.140 --> 01:27:38.960
they go out and they like to play pranks on
1724
01:27:38.979 --> 01:27:41.899
each other. And, you know, you go out to eat
1725
01:27:42.199 --> 01:27:43.659
and you rip on him and you tell jokes and
1726
01:27:43.699 --> 01:27:46.170
it's all in good fun. It's like Vince doesn't have
1727
01:27:46.210 --> 01:27:49.409
that apparently. So it's two hours on SmackDown feeding lines
1728
01:27:49.470 --> 01:27:52.289
to Michael Cole to rip on Booker T or Josh.
1729
01:27:52.369 --> 01:27:54.270
And the same thing on Raw, like you said, the
1730
01:27:54.289 --> 01:27:57.510
middle of the show. To me, the audience, the goal
1731
01:27:57.550 --> 01:28:00.229
should be, drawing the most ratings and drawing the most money,
1732
01:28:00.590 --> 01:28:03.069
not making sure that Vince McMahon isn't bored because he
1733
01:28:03.109 --> 01:28:05.899
doesn't give a crap about Jack Swagger's college background and
1734
01:28:05.939 --> 01:28:09.520
why physically and performance-wise and what he can do in
1735
01:28:09.539 --> 01:28:13.300
the ring. He should, you know, he's an up-and-comer, and hey,
1736
01:28:13.380 --> 01:28:15.199
he just lost to John Cena. What does that mean?
1737
01:28:15.239 --> 01:28:16.920
That's a big deal. If it's not a big deal,
1738
01:28:17.600 --> 01:28:19.479
that means we expected Swagger to lose, and that means
1739
01:28:19.520 --> 01:28:22.319
he's basically a jobber. I'm sorry that Vince isn't entertained
1740
01:28:22.390 --> 01:28:25.029
by the fact that maybe we should talk about a
1741
01:28:25.050 --> 01:28:26.710
match before it happens and talk a little bit about
1742
01:28:26.729 --> 01:28:29.079
it after it happens. I'm sorry that bores him, but
1743
01:28:29.420 --> 01:28:30.699
I just don't think that's best for business.
1744
01:28:31.579 --> 01:28:35.369
I think, to your point, I think he actually, as
1745
01:28:35.430 --> 01:28:38.729
opposed to not having that excitement enough, I think that
1746
01:28:38.770 --> 01:28:41.760
he spends majority of his time on the road actually
1747
01:28:41.899 --> 01:28:44.539
doing that so that when he does sit down in
1748
01:28:45.079 --> 01:28:48.420
gorilla and watch the show and he goes oh man
1749
01:28:48.619 --> 01:28:51.399
i'm bored i wish i was out with uh johnny
1750
01:28:51.550 --> 01:28:53.970
and kevin so he just goes well kevin's on headset
1751
01:28:54.010 --> 01:28:55.970
let's just do it right now Yeah.
1752
01:28:56.029 --> 01:28:59.949
What he needs is friends outside of wrestling. Maybe that's
1753
01:29:00.010 --> 01:29:02.829
a better way to put it. We don't just get
1754
01:29:02.850 --> 01:29:05.260
the continuation of, I guess, what he's doing on the
1755
01:29:05.300 --> 01:29:07.800
road with the exact same people trying to entertain John
1756
01:29:07.819 --> 01:29:10.199
and Kevin in the same way he does off-camera. We
1757
01:29:10.220 --> 01:29:13.180
had one email question, and then we can probably wrap
1758
01:29:13.220 --> 01:29:17.649
up on that note. Where did it go? Oh, there
1759
01:29:17.670 --> 01:29:21.069
it is. This comes from John Nicole in Southport, England,
1760
01:29:21.090 --> 01:29:23.189
and he says, when John's on the show next, can
1761
01:29:23.210 --> 01:29:25.970
you ask him what were WWE's thoughts on Alex Riley
1762
01:29:26.329 --> 01:29:28.470
during the time that he worked there? He actually pointed
1763
01:29:28.550 --> 01:29:31.510
out a situation in his email where CM Punk, and
1764
01:29:31.550 --> 01:29:33.630
this was just at a house show, CM Punk was
1765
01:29:33.670 --> 01:29:36.869
laid into by Beth Phoenix, Santino, Kofi, Ray, Cena, and
1766
01:29:36.909 --> 01:29:39.970
Kelly Kelly. Everybody except Riley got involved, and then when
1767
01:29:40.010 --> 01:29:42.819
Riley tried to hit his finisher... Punk countered, spat a
1768
01:29:42.840 --> 01:29:46.239
green mist at him, and Riley did not get his
1769
01:29:46.279 --> 01:29:48.550
move off. And so he was just wondering why WWE
1770
01:29:48.890 --> 01:29:52.569
didn't push Alex Riley's finisher in general and use that
1771
01:29:52.630 --> 01:29:53.479
as one example of it.
1772
01:29:55.130 --> 01:29:58.810
That was probably just for that instance. I mean, there's
1773
01:29:58.909 --> 01:30:01.350
one guy there. I don't think that there was really
1774
01:30:01.409 --> 01:30:03.300
anything all that set up. It's kind of like the...
1775
01:30:04.180 --> 01:30:06.100
the uh the dark matches at the end of the
1776
01:30:06.140 --> 01:30:08.699
show sure there's there's a basic structure to it but
1777
01:30:09.100 --> 01:30:10.710
it's kind of like all right we're going to send
1778
01:30:10.750 --> 01:30:12.409
out five people and we're going to do something it's
1779
01:30:12.430 --> 01:30:15.409
like there you guys all hate finishers something like that
1780
01:30:15.489 --> 01:30:17.670
especially at a house show number one i don't think
1781
01:30:17.750 --> 01:30:19.630
anyone sat there and said yeah you know what and
1782
01:30:19.649 --> 01:30:21.390
then we'll do the green mist i think it was
1783
01:30:21.449 --> 01:30:23.970
just i don't think that was burying alex i think
1784
01:30:23.989 --> 01:30:25.949
that was him just wanting to get that in and
1785
01:30:26.770 --> 01:30:28.760
uh i don't think that had any reflection of alex
1786
01:30:28.840 --> 01:30:31.869
i remember the first guy i worked with When I
1787
01:30:31.930 --> 01:30:35.020
first got there, they gave me Alex Riley, who was
1788
01:30:35.119 --> 01:30:39.939
on the road doing opening matches and trying to develop
1789
01:30:40.000 --> 01:30:42.000
a character for him and work with him on promos.
1790
01:30:42.619 --> 01:30:44.989
And a lot of people were really high on him.
1791
01:30:45.069 --> 01:30:48.689
And then Cena was high on him, but Cena felt
1792
01:30:48.729 --> 01:30:52.869
like he's six months away. before being ready and then
1793
01:30:53.189 --> 01:30:56.149
about six months later he came up I think that
1794
01:30:56.449 --> 01:30:59.810
Vince really liked him on NXT I think Vince likes
1795
01:30:59.850 --> 01:31:01.720
him now I think Cena likes him now I think
1796
01:31:01.760 --> 01:31:04.100
that they're high on him and I think you're kind
1797
01:31:04.140 --> 01:31:07.739
of nitpicking or trying to find something based off you
1798
01:31:07.770 --> 01:31:10.010
know kind of a comedy thing from a house show.
1799
01:31:09.810 --> 01:31:20.899
Spot Are you a fan of AEW looking to sit back, relax,
1800
01:31:21.039 --> 01:31:23.960
and listen to some like-minded podcasters who share your passion?
1801
01:31:24.560 --> 01:31:26.390
Do you want to be talked off the ledge after
1802
01:31:26.430 --> 01:31:28.630
a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
1803
01:31:28.649 --> 01:31:31.369
they thinking? Do you want to join a discussion on
1804
01:31:31.430 --> 01:31:34.189
what AEW is doing right and what they could do
1805
01:31:34.229 --> 01:31:34.750
to improve?
1806
01:31:35.149 --> 01:31:36.189
Then join me, Joel.
1807
01:31:36.560 --> 01:31:39.279
And me, Greg, for the All Elite Conversation Club every
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01:31:39.340 --> 01:31:43.720
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1809
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1810
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1811
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Dailycast lineup at PWTorchDailycast.com.
1812
01:32:04.729 --> 01:32:06.710
Yeah, yeah. I mean, the actual thing, it's sort of
1813
01:32:06.729 --> 01:32:09.909
like you're probably the lowest guy seniority-wise, and in the end,
1814
01:32:10.149 --> 01:32:11.869
you know, they wanted Punk to get one shot in.
1815
01:32:12.670 --> 01:32:14.029
But I think in general he's got a point. You
1816
01:32:14.050 --> 01:32:16.590
know what, Riley, it's kind of an expectant. What did
1817
01:32:16.630 --> 01:32:20.130
you think of his performance with Dolph on Monday?
1818
01:32:20.149 --> 01:32:21.800
I think it's good.
1819
01:32:21.840 --> 01:32:23.819
I think that there was– I don't like what they're
1820
01:32:23.880 --> 01:32:27.220
doing with it per se, but I think Riley holds
1821
01:32:27.260 --> 01:32:29.119
his own. I like Riley on the mic. I think
1822
01:32:29.159 --> 01:32:34.819
that– I like that he hasn't changed his character after
1823
01:32:34.880 --> 01:32:38.069
becoming a babyface. I like that he's still the same guy. Yeah.
1824
01:32:41.199 --> 01:32:42.979
it'd take me a long time to kind of get
1825
01:32:43.039 --> 01:32:46.489
into what I would do different with Riley Dolph. I
1826
01:32:46.510 --> 01:32:51.029
think I said that on my blog, though. But, yeah,
1827
01:32:51.050 --> 01:32:54.569
I think Riley's doing great. I think he could stand
1828
01:32:54.609 --> 01:32:57.800
in that ring, maybe not performance-wise, but on the mic
1829
01:32:57.840 --> 01:33:00.399
with almost anybody there.
1830
01:33:01.640 --> 01:33:04.520
One thing you said jumped out, and I'll not challenge
1831
01:33:04.560 --> 01:33:05.699
you on it, but ask you to elaborate on it.
1832
01:33:05.699 --> 01:33:07.239
You said you're glad he didn't change when he went
1833
01:33:07.279 --> 01:33:09.520
from a heel to a face. What is it, and
1834
01:33:09.640 --> 01:33:11.880
just elaborate on this, what is it about him before
1835
01:33:11.939 --> 01:33:15.300
he turned that meant we should boo him? And what
1836
01:33:15.340 --> 01:33:17.319
is it about him now, when we used to boo him,
1837
01:33:17.359 --> 01:33:19.689
that now we should cheer him if he hasn't changed?
1838
01:33:21.310 --> 01:33:22.989
Ooh, well, I.
1839
01:33:22.970 --> 01:33:29.310
Mean, that's tough to kind of, because I don't, I
1840
01:33:30.210 --> 01:33:32.649
get what you're saying, and I don't necessarily think that way,
1841
01:33:32.689 --> 01:33:34.409
because you could look at it and you could go,
1842
01:33:35.029 --> 01:33:38.350
here's sort of this cocky guy saying, who thinks he's
1843
01:33:38.430 --> 01:33:41.729
better than everybody else, and I don't like him because
1844
01:33:41.770 --> 01:33:45.829
of that, but you almost kind of, I think with Miz,
1845
01:33:46.829 --> 01:33:50.069
people are catching on with Miz doing his catchphrase now,
1846
01:33:50.130 --> 01:33:53.060
and he's getting cheered, and I think it just becomes
1847
01:33:53.100 --> 01:33:54.800
a point where it's like, look, I don't like this
1848
01:33:54.840 --> 01:33:58.079
guy for whatever reason, but I kind of like that,
1849
01:33:58.220 --> 01:34:02.489
and And Riley was a smartass, and he always had
1850
01:34:02.510 --> 01:34:05.189
a clever comeback. And I think people liked that, but
1851
01:34:05.210 --> 01:34:07.029
they were just like, I just don't like the guy.
1852
01:34:07.369 --> 01:34:10.289
But then it was, okay, you did something to win
1853
01:34:10.350 --> 01:34:14.789
me over, but you kept the aspects of your personality
1854
01:34:15.949 --> 01:34:18.710
as a heel that I did enjoy. And I think
1855
01:34:18.750 --> 01:34:21.840
that that's kind of what Miz needs to do, too,
1856
01:34:22.060 --> 01:34:25.779
when he does his eventual turn of going. I don't
1857
01:34:25.819 --> 01:34:27.399
like you for this and this and this, but I
1858
01:34:27.439 --> 01:34:29.579
kind of like this about you. So when you turn,
1859
01:34:29.920 --> 01:34:35.890
keep that and build into becoming a baby face. And
1860
01:34:35.899 --> 01:34:38.409
I think that that's what Riley needs to do. I
1861
01:34:38.449 --> 01:34:41.850
think he still needs to kind of justify why you
1862
01:34:41.890 --> 01:34:44.289
should cheer for him. But I think that going off
1863
01:34:44.329 --> 01:34:46.930
of beating up Miz and going, good, good job, we
1864
01:34:46.949 --> 01:34:49.909
hate him, so we like you now. And I'm taking
1865
01:34:49.949 --> 01:34:51.970
some of the aspects that I liked of you when
1866
01:34:52.029 --> 01:34:52.510
I hated you.
1867
01:34:53.920 --> 01:34:57.279
Yeah, yeah. And I kind of got the spirit of
1868
01:34:57.300 --> 01:34:58.899
what you said. I wanted to elaborate on it because,
1869
01:34:59.199 --> 01:35:01.760
you know, there are things as a heel that we
1870
01:35:01.800 --> 01:35:03.960
looked at and said, that's going to help him get
1871
01:35:04.000 --> 01:35:06.279
over as a babyface, we thought. You know, there's certain
1872
01:35:06.319 --> 01:35:09.609
personality traits that, you know, I think we're going to,
1873
01:35:10.449 --> 01:35:12.529
if he turns face, fans are going to like. But
1874
01:35:12.550 --> 01:35:16.109
I still think when wrestlers turn, it's just you need
1875
01:35:16.130 --> 01:35:19.789
to have that promo where Alex Riley says, you know,
1876
01:35:19.949 --> 01:35:23.779
I came into WWE and I was looking good. for
1877
01:35:23.939 --> 01:35:27.010
a mentor and I shared some things in common with Miz,
1878
01:35:27.090 --> 01:35:29.489
but man, the longer I was with him, the more
1879
01:35:29.529 --> 01:35:31.609
I realized I don't want to be like him. I
1880
01:35:31.630 --> 01:35:33.149
don't want to do the things he did to get ahead.
1881
01:35:33.590 --> 01:35:35.609
I'm ashamed of the fact that I stuck it out
1882
01:35:35.649 --> 01:35:37.750
as long as I did, but, you know, I felt
1883
01:35:37.770 --> 01:35:39.569
that I was conflicted. I had things to learn from him,
1884
01:35:39.590 --> 01:35:41.270
but I also realized I didn't want to be like...
1885
01:35:41.569 --> 01:35:43.020
I mean, there's a way to cut a promo, and
1886
01:35:43.029 --> 01:35:45.960
there's dozens of variations of that, but have that moment
1887
01:35:45.979 --> 01:35:49.079
where fans go, okay, I used to not like him
1888
01:35:49.100 --> 01:35:52.239
because he stood for things... He stood next to Miz,
1889
01:35:52.300 --> 01:35:54.140
who I know stands for things that I don't agree with.
1890
01:35:54.619 --> 01:35:57.739
I definitely would, you know... The analogy, you know, if
1891
01:35:57.779 --> 01:36:00.210
you sit across the cubicle from somebody at your office...
1892
01:36:00.970 --> 01:36:03.770
and they doctor the books to get a promotion ahead
1893
01:36:03.810 --> 01:36:07.029
of you, you don't like them. If somebody sitting next
1894
01:36:07.069 --> 01:36:09.609
to you could have taken credit for something, but they
1895
01:36:09.670 --> 01:36:12.659
shared it with you, with the boss, you like them,
1896
01:36:12.939 --> 01:36:14.579
because they didn't have to, but they went out of
1897
01:36:14.600 --> 01:36:16.699
their way to give you credit. Good guy, bad guy.
1898
01:36:17.140 --> 01:36:21.050
So I think people in real life, or people who
1899
01:36:21.060 --> 01:36:23.310
have real life experiences, that makes them, that they relate
1900
01:36:23.350 --> 01:36:25.250
to wrestlers. They go, okay, this guy is a heel,
1901
01:36:25.270 --> 01:36:27.890
here's why. And this guy's a good guy. Here's why.
1902
01:36:28.109 --> 01:36:30.869
All of a sudden, if WWE says, well, this guy
1903
01:36:30.930 --> 01:36:32.590
used to boo, now you have to cheer him, I
1904
01:36:32.630 --> 01:36:35.149
need to know why. I need to know why this guy,
1905
01:36:35.189 --> 01:36:37.350
who I would not trust at my workplace, I wouldn't
1906
01:36:37.369 --> 01:36:38.890
trust him as a neighbor if I left my garage
1907
01:36:38.909 --> 01:36:41.090
door open for five minutes. I'd expect him to steal something.
1908
01:36:41.489 --> 01:36:44.479
Now I'm supposed to cheer him because now he's the
1909
01:36:44.489 --> 01:36:46.399
guy I'm supposed to trust to watch my bikes and
1910
01:36:46.420 --> 01:36:48.560
my tools when I go away for five minutes. It's like,
1911
01:36:48.939 --> 01:36:51.159
I need that promo. I need that come-to-Jesus moment.
1912
01:36:51.979 --> 01:36:54.020
Yeah, but you want to know why that doesn't happen
1913
01:36:54.140 --> 01:36:57.159
is because it's the revolving door of, let's just take
1914
01:36:57.220 --> 01:37:01.390
Alex Riley. I write for Alex one week. Then Brian
1915
01:37:01.430 --> 01:37:03.789
writes for Alex the next week. Then Dave Kapoor writes
1916
01:37:03.810 --> 01:37:06.850
for Alex the next week. No one is keeping– because
1917
01:37:07.029 --> 01:37:11.850
the week that, say, Dave writes for him, the week prior,
1918
01:37:12.189 --> 01:37:15.479
he was writing for, say, Swagger. Okay, so I have
1919
01:37:15.520 --> 01:37:20.390
no idea– because you really don't pay attention to what
1920
01:37:21.199 --> 01:37:26.170
Riley said or did or what I need to bring forward.
1921
01:37:26.810 --> 01:37:28.750
It's just, oh, I got this promo with Riley, and
1922
01:37:28.770 --> 01:37:32.710
he's going to go out there and interrupt Dolph and blah, blah, blah. And,
1923
01:37:32.750 --> 01:37:35.029
you know, Riley gives his two cents, Dolph gives his
1924
01:37:35.050 --> 01:37:36.789
two cents, you give your own two cents, and you
1925
01:37:36.829 --> 01:37:38.550
go with it. You don't sit there and go, well,
1926
01:37:38.569 --> 01:37:40.310
you know what? And that was kind of what I
1927
01:37:40.369 --> 01:37:43.050
liked with working with Miz for so long and Swagger
1928
01:37:43.069 --> 01:37:45.529
was so long that it was like, Remember last week
1929
01:37:45.590 --> 01:37:47.510
we touched on this? Like, now let's go to this.
1930
01:37:47.529 --> 01:37:49.550
And I think that if you can get that and
1931
01:37:49.590 --> 01:37:52.159
you can give... I always wanted to have it where
1932
01:37:52.560 --> 01:37:58.600
the creative structure was. All right, Brian, you want Cena, Orton, Sheamus?
1933
01:37:58.920 --> 01:37:59.159
Great.
1934
01:37:59.500 --> 01:37:59.880
Take them.
1935
01:38:00.479 --> 01:38:03.880
Deal with them. And that is what you need to
1936
01:38:03.920 --> 01:38:06.130
do to make sure that all stories are brought forward,
1937
01:38:06.310 --> 01:38:13.039
all details are in. And give me... D.B. Ossie, Swagger,
1938
01:38:13.180 --> 01:38:16.300
Evan Bourne, whatever, give Kapoor the next guys in line,
1939
01:38:16.579 --> 01:38:21.329
give this guy this guy, and obviously you can oversee everything,
1940
01:38:21.750 --> 01:38:25.510
but there needs to be some consistency, otherwise people are
1941
01:38:25.529 --> 01:38:27.470
just going to go out there and take their marching orders,
1942
01:38:27.510 --> 01:38:29.470
and again, half the time some of those riders take
1943
01:38:29.489 --> 01:38:32.039
their marching orders. the script as a bullet point for
1944
01:38:32.079 --> 01:38:34.039
a promo and go, all right, I'll.
1945
01:38:33.899 --> 01:38:38.680
Just use this. Yeah. You know, and I like when
1946
01:38:38.699 --> 01:38:40.420
you say that, what I think is when we're turning
1947
01:38:40.460 --> 01:38:44.619
Alex Riley heel to face, that's where Brian Gewirtz at
1948
01:38:44.659 --> 01:38:50.369
that point, or maybe Dave Kapoor now would say, All right,
1949
01:38:50.390 --> 01:38:54.069
we're turning Alex Riley baby face. Why should fans cheer
1950
01:38:54.090 --> 01:38:56.069
for him now when they booed him before? Let's, as
1951
01:38:56.130 --> 01:38:59.489
a writing team, establish this and figure out what we
1952
01:38:59.529 --> 01:39:02.720
can have Riley say or do that will explain to
1953
01:39:02.760 --> 01:39:04.880
fans why this guy who we were encouraged to boo before,
1954
01:39:04.960 --> 01:39:07.000
now they should be cheering. Let's all get on the
1955
01:39:07.039 --> 01:39:08.520
same page on this because I know a few of
1956
01:39:08.560 --> 01:39:10.239
you are going to be writing for him on various weeks.
1957
01:39:10.699 --> 01:39:12.979
And then once you get going, hopefully the people writing
1958
01:39:13.020 --> 01:39:15.100
for him are watching the show and kind of know
1959
01:39:15.119 --> 01:39:19.170
what was said last week. But I just miss turns.
1960
01:39:19.430 --> 01:39:20.529
I just don't know why I show up at the
1961
01:39:20.569 --> 01:39:22.270
office one day and the guy who was my rival,
1962
01:39:22.310 --> 01:39:24.609
now I'm supposed to buddy up to him and trust him.
1963
01:39:24.930 --> 01:39:28.029
I don't. And give me a reason to understand why
1964
01:39:28.069 --> 01:39:31.170
he was misunderstood before or something happened that kind of
1965
01:39:31.229 --> 01:39:34.229
changed him and his outlook. And now I'm willing to
1966
01:39:34.270 --> 01:39:36.460
forgive him and, in fact, embrace him. And I just
1967
01:39:36.479 --> 01:39:38.260
think that's missing sometimes, and I think that takes away
1968
01:39:38.279 --> 01:39:40.840
the momentum off of a heel or a face turn sometimes.
1969
01:39:41.119 --> 01:39:45.970
To be perfectly honest, based on the reputation that creative
1970
01:39:46.029 --> 01:39:51.090
has in turning someone babyface, I'd rather much keep Riley
1971
01:39:51.130 --> 01:39:53.770
the way that he is and just kind of have that.
1972
01:39:54.220 --> 01:39:56.880
gray area of wondering why I'm supposed to like him
1973
01:39:57.159 --> 01:39:59.729
because at least he goes out there and he's kind
1974
01:39:59.770 --> 01:40:02.829
of cool and he's kind of entertaining as opposed to
1975
01:40:03.149 --> 01:40:04.989
let's put a smile on his face.
1976
01:40:04.750 --> 01:40:06.189
And have him do that.
1977
01:40:06.409 --> 01:40:08.489
You know what I mean? So it's like I just
1978
01:40:08.529 --> 01:40:14.510
feel like if it's okay, you're winning. Just take what
1979
01:40:14.550 --> 01:40:15.050
you can get.
1980
01:40:15.789 --> 01:40:18.350
Yeah, I guess it is a little sad that we
1981
01:40:18.390 --> 01:40:20.779
think they'd ruin him if they thought too much about it.
1982
01:40:20.890 --> 01:40:25.109
So just don't do anything and let the babyface aspects
1983
01:40:25.170 --> 01:40:27.720
of him that were part of his heel character not
1984
01:40:27.760 --> 01:40:30.420
be screwed up. And it's sad that we can't be
1985
01:40:30.460 --> 01:40:33.720
more nuanced and say, you know, we recognize this is
1986
01:40:33.739 --> 01:40:35.619
the cool part about him. Let's not change that, but
1987
01:40:35.680 --> 01:40:37.760
let's at least give fans a reason to think, you know.
1988
01:40:38.380 --> 01:40:41.880
Why this guy is cheering now. I don't know. It's frustrating.
1989
01:40:42.140 --> 01:40:44.640
But anyway, it should be a fun weekend, and hopefully
1990
01:40:44.659 --> 01:40:47.119
we can have you back on next week, or if
1991
01:40:47.180 --> 01:40:49.239
it doesn't work out, the week after, but we'll follow
1992
01:40:49.319 --> 01:40:51.039
up on SummerSlam.
1993
01:40:51.859 --> 01:40:52.579
Yeah, just let me know.
1994
01:40:53.119 --> 01:40:55.770
Great. Thanks, John. Thanks to all the VIP members for listening,
1995
01:40:56.020 --> 01:40:58.550
and big thanks again to John for taking the time
1996
01:40:58.590 --> 01:41:01.590
out that he did. Big thanks to John again for
1997
01:41:01.609 --> 01:41:03.229
taking time out to be part of the show here
1998
01:41:03.270 --> 01:41:05.909
for 90 minutes. Until next time, Wade Keller thanking you
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for listening and signing off.
2000
01:41:27.979 --> 01:41:31.149
Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our
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Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti when he co-hosts with
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can listen to him every week on the Nicky's Club,
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Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with
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From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered.
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