WKPWP Interview Classic - (9-1-2016) Keller talks with ex-WWE Creative Writer Matt McCarthy, plus Jeanie Clarke interview

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back to the mid-2000s, starting with pay-per-view roundtables, hundreds of
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miss out on all the benefits. Treat yourself to a
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slash govip. Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the
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Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast. On today's Wade Keller Pro
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Wrestling Podcast for Saturday, August 29th, 2026, we jump back
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10 years. First, to my interview with ex-WWB creative team
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member Matt McCarthy. This live streamed on September 1st, 2016.
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We talked about a variety of current events on the
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Miz-Daniel Bryan situation, Dolph Ziggler, Kevin Owens, and more. Plus
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some 2011-2012 Daniel Bryan backstage stories and memories of Mr.
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Fuji.
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Then in a bonus interview that livestreamed two days later,
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Jim Vallee hosted a PWTorch DailyCast interview with Jeannie Clark, a.k.a.
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Lady Blossom. She worked in multiple wrestling promotions on air,
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including as a valet for Chris Adams and later Steve Austin,
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stunning Steve Austin. She talked about her travels, her heartbreak,
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her addictions, and her recovery. It's a fascinating glimpse into
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the 1980s and early 90s territory days for a woman
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from England, orienting herself to the pro wrestling industry and
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dealing with the ups and downs that came with that lifestyle.
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So let's get to it. Again, these originally live-streamed on
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September 1st and 3rd, 2016. It's today's Wade Keller Pro
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Wrestling Podcast, 10 years ago interview classic, for Saturday, August 29th, 2026.
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Here we go. Welcome to the PWTorch Livecast. I am
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Wade Keller, editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch
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weekly newsletter. Since 1987. Also, PWTorch.com, launched in 1999. MMATorch.com,
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covering the world of UFC and mixed martial arts. And
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host of this, the PWTorch Livecast. I host Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,
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and Thursday. Tomorrow, I am joined. Excuse me. Tomorrow, I
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am not going to be hosting. But Bruce Mitchell and
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Travis Bryant will be in the only primetime edition. of
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the PWTorch livecast, and that will start at 7 Eastern tomorrow.
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That's 7 Eastern tomorrow. Bruce and Travis back together again,
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and they'll be talking about a big week in professional wrestling. Wow,
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what a week. The roster split continues, and the Universal
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Championship has been decided, and it just, news keeps coming.
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And now we're in September. What's in store for us?
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Two pay-per-views. But you only have to pay for one. Actually,
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you don't have to pay for any. Just pay for
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the month of the network, and you get all kinds
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of content. With everything going on, I am so pleased
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to bring on board as my guest for Interview Thursday,
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the Interview Thursday edition of the PWTorch Livecast, former WWE
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creative team member, professional stand-up comedian, host of the We
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Watch Wrestling podcast, and frequent guest in recent years of
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this very show, one of my favorites, one of the
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listeners' favorites, Matt McCarthy. Matt, welcome back to the show.
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Hi, thank you for having me, Mr.
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Keller.
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How are you?
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I'm doing great. Since the last time you joined us,
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the wrestling industry has just kind of been flipped upside down.
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You know, we've got two shows, two rosters, two live episodes,
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added pay-per-views, new championship belts. Kevin Owens... Holds the top
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singles title on Raw. He did almost nothing to achieve
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that belt, at least in terms of incapacitating his opponent.
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And it happened under amazing circumstances with Triple H coming
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back for the first time on main roster TV in
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months and basically dictating who would be the universal champion.
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In a no-DQ match. Matt, let's start with that. A
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lot on the table. By the way, we welcome phone calls, too,
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and emails. So if you want to call in and
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give your thoughts on a subject and ask a question
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of Matt, the number is 515-605-9345. That's our new phone number, 515-605-9345.
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You can email me, and I'll monitor the inbox here
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live throughout the hour here at PWTorchLivecast.com. gmail.com. That's the
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name of the show at gmail. It's easy to remember.
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PWTorchLivecast at gmail.com. Matt, let's just start off right away
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with the Kevin Owens happening. What was your reaction when
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it happened? And now three days sober, what are your
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thoughts on where they go from here?
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I don't know. I'm dying to see. It definitely seems
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like this will set up the main events for, you know,
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the foreseeable future.
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Uh.
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Uh.
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i think it's a safe bet that seth rollins is
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now a baby face uh....
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Uh.
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i i'm laughing because now that i think about it
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i'm saying it out loud this is probably all leading
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to roman reigns winning the title at wrestlemania.
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You think beating Seth Rollins? Or Kevin Owens?
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I don't know, but who knows? Maybe both of them
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at the same time. I feel confident in saying that
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this is all leading to Roman being the top babyface.
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Well, Pro Wrestling Illustrated has Roman Reigns ranked number one
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in their top 500 list, so I don't know what
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that means, but You know, if you're number one in
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the PWA Top 500. Is that a curse, or does
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that mean you're going to win WrestleMania? I'm not sure
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the history there.
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It may be a curse. Who was number one last year?
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It was Seth, and then he immediately got hurt. And
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then the year before that... Probably Cena. It might have
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been Cena. Daniel Bryan. Yeah, it might have been Cena. Yeah,
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that might have been the year that John Cena was
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doing the Cabbage Patch dance on the cover of PWI.
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Yeah.
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And then he got hurt. Then Daniel Bryan was probably
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the year before that. Punk was probably the year before that.
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Miz was probably the year before that. So it's a
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dubious honor these days. I'm not even sure if the
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folks at, what's his name, Stu Stacks? I'm not even
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sure if he knows what it means anymore to be
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on the top of the 500.
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I pulled up the history. I didn't know we were
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going this direction, but what the heck. Last year it
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was Seth Rollins. The year before, Daniel Bryan. I was right.
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on my second guess. John Cena the year before that.
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And before that, CM Punk was fighting in USC a
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week from Saturday. God, I had a dream about that
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last night.
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Oh, boy.
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Punk did very well in my dream.
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Did he really?
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He did very well.
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Oh, good.
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He shocked the world. Oh, my gosh.
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Well, if only you could have laid some money down
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in your dream.
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I knew I was going to do a write-up on
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him today for for MMATorch.com, put some quotes, some recent
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quotes up and stuff like that, so I sometimes process
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my job while I'm sleeping. Okay, PWI 500. We just
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talked about some big names who have won it. Rain, Cena,
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Daniel Bryan, Seth Rollins. Who won it in 2011, Matt?
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Pop quiz. Oh, I was right.
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It was. It was the Miz, wasn't it?
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Yes, it was.
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Yep.
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We'll talk about that, too. The Miz Daniel Bryan and
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Miz Dolph Ziggler, but Let's, okay, we're all over the place,
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and that's good. I like that.
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And then, I'll even go you one further, and then
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the year before that, it was AJ Styles, right?
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Are you looking it up? Are you cheating?
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No, no, I swear to God.
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Wow.
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I am not.
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I promise you, I'm going through the covers in my
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mind of recent years. Before that, I have no idea.
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Maybe Triple H, I have no idea.
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Yeah, well, my internet's not jumping back to 2009. Let
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me manually type it in the URL. Let me go
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old school here. yeah my internet's jammed up oh well
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um okay Kevin Owens as oh Triple H won in
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2009 of course.
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Oh my god I'm like 10 for 10 well.
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Now I gotta keep going who won in 2008 I mean.
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It's it's not a repeat now now I'm I know
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now I gotta guess.
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Uh just make a good guess Cena No, no. What
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big name.
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2008.
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What big name from 2008 did we not talk about yet?
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But he's a big name today. If they hand him
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out one at a time. He beat out Kurt Angle.
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I mean, I want to.
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I want to say... It's not Batista.
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You are scared to be wrong. You want to take
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your ten wins and take your chips and catch them in.
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I do.
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I want to retire with my streak intact.
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Randy Orton.
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Oh, Randy.
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We'll talk about him, too. All right. Okay. Kevin Owens.
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Are you a fan of Kevin Owens' And again, this
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can go a lot of different ways. He could end
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up being just a, like, what's the term? Just sort
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of a guy who wrestles for other bigger stars and,
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you know, who are the central features in the storyline.
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Triple H, Steph, Shane, Reigns, Seth, who knows? Or they
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could decide he's popular or, you know, he's over with fans.
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He can wrestle. He can talk. We need to go
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with somebody.
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Yeah.
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You know, I made my case in the– I don't
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even know what audio it was this week I was
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talking about. Actually, I think it was last night on
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the Wade Keller Hotline for VIP members, and I talked
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about how Vince McMahon and company, you know, a lot
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of times the big stars who come along are not
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fitting who they expect. Heck, even Hulk Hogan, you know,
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was a successor to Vern Gagne after Vern retired in
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May of 1981 in the AWA. He and the Crusher
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were the longtime lead babyfaces. Hulk Hogan came in as
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a heel. Fans loved him. He turned him face, and
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he'd still be there today wrestling. If they had a
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better relationship, he'd still be headlining for the AWA. They'd
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be number one. John Cena was probably a little more
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along the lines of what they expected, but Steve Austin
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brought in as a heel ringmaster. We need someone to
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talk for this guy. We don't want his southern accent
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to hurt him, so let's have Ted DiBiase do cartoon
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interviews for him. Is Kevin Owens along those lines, Matt?
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Is he someone who maybe could end up being a
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top star in an unexpected one if they just give
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him a chance, or is that overstating his upside?
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Oh, God, no. Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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That's not... I don't think you can overstate the potential
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that Kevin Owens has. I mean, he can work. He
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can talk. He's got a unique look. He's, you know.
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I mean, he... In today's day and age... He can
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still be an effective heel. He can make people who
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love him, the snarkiest, smartest fans, boo him. I mean,
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the guy's a genius. He's born to do this. I
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think he has more upside than other gentlemen that uh, uh,
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the company has, you know, missed the boat on as well.
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I mean, but I mean, it's, it's funny. It's, it's, it's,
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it's ironic is what it is because you bring up
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Hulk Hogan. Um, you know, it makes me think of
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Vince senior and the way that Vince senior, you know,
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he's the way he booked and, and the guy was clearly,
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clearly a gifted Booker. You know, he ran, you know,
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he ran New York. You know, he built that empire.
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00:14:02.139 --> 00:14:06.730
I mean, granted, Vince Jr. took it to a whole
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new place, you know, changed the whole industry, you know.
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00:14:10.889 --> 00:14:17.409
But it was Vince Sr. getting in his own way,
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00:14:18.269 --> 00:14:24.279
not flipping superstar Billy Graham. I mean, originally, he didn't
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00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:26.639
even want Hulk Hogan to be in Rocky III. Can
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00:14:26.659 --> 00:14:31.879
you imagine? Can you imagine that? And then it was
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Vince Jr. who brought him back, you know, who saw
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the potential, who saw this is where the industry is going.
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People don't want, you know, in 1982 or three or four,
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00:14:44.450 --> 00:14:49.210
people didn't want, you know, Dudley Do-Right anymore. What would
249
00:14:49.230 --> 00:14:52.639
they call him? Howdy Doody. They didn't want Bob Backman anymore.
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00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:56.500
They didn't want the life coach in those days. You know,
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00:14:56.600 --> 00:14:59.399
they didn't want a squeaky clean baby face. They wanted.
252
00:15:00.769 --> 00:15:07.750
A flamboyant heel. And then Hulk Hogan, it's amazing to
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00:15:07.789 --> 00:15:12.620
me that it's when the company, I don't want to
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00:15:12.649 --> 00:15:14.259
say when they're in a pinch, they're definitely in a
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00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:19.080
pinch when they, you know, lucked into Steve Austin. Because again,
256
00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:23.220
it's a situation where they create the ultimate baby face
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by having someone who's just a heel that we all
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00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:29.240
agree with. You know, Hulk Hogan wrestled like a heel.
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00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:32.620
But he's the ultimate babyface. Steve Austin was just the
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00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:37.690
most dastardly heel. We all loved him. I mean, is
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00:15:37.750 --> 00:15:41.110
Kevin Owens, could he be one of those guys? Probably, absolutely.
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00:15:42.330 --> 00:15:44.350
CM Punk could have been that guy. CM Punk should
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00:15:44.389 --> 00:15:46.710
have been a heel that we all loved and we
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00:15:46.750 --> 00:15:50.129
all cheered for. But I mean, that's the way it went.
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I think Kevin Owens is in a much better spot. Unfortunately,
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00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:58.440
the Daniel Bryans and the CM Punks and a lot
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00:15:58.460 --> 00:16:00.620
of other guys kind of.
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00:16:03.500 --> 00:16:07.360
They're kind of the martyrs, you know, that have led
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to this new direction as slowly as it's, you know, forming.
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But I mean, my mind was blown. You know, my
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mind was blown on Monday that that happened. I was very...
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00:16:20.870 --> 00:16:25.330
I was shocked and I was just so happy because
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00:16:25.370 --> 00:16:31.559
it is just... It's... It's just amazing that they were
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00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:35.059
able to get it done, that Vince was able to
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00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:41.710
approve that scenario. And it hopefully will lead to some
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00:16:41.750 --> 00:16:44.389
very interesting television. It already has.
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I don't think we've ever had a Labor Day Raw.
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We have a Labor Day Raw. We are looking forward
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00:16:53.889 --> 00:16:55.909
to it as a pivotal show, not a maintenance show,
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not a Well, people are going to be all busy
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doing stuff. I mean, this is a big episode leading
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into the Monday night football season. And, man, Matt, I've
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got to take my first break. When we come back,
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I want to do some follow-up on this. I want
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to talk about the Ms. Daniel Bryan and Dolph Ziggler situation.
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I want to talk about Finn Balor's injury. I want
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00:17:11.289 --> 00:17:13.029
to talk about what you're up to. I also have
288
00:17:13.049 --> 00:17:16.289
an email about if Vince treats talent differently than he
289
00:17:16.369 --> 00:17:18.950
treats the wrestlers. You know, I don't like the term
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talent just for wrestlers because, Matt, you are talent. You
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00:17:22.730 --> 00:17:24.630
were a writer, and you are talent. You're just not
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on-air talent.
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You are.
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We will. Well, yeah.
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00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:32.599
Well, we can debate that after the break. It harks
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00:17:32.660 --> 00:17:34.720
back to that old, you know, they like to use
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00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:38.289
that Hollywood language, that TV language, you know, on-screen talent.
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00:17:39.230 --> 00:17:40.250
Yeah.
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So we'll talk about what you're up to. And also
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00:17:43.150 --> 00:17:46.230
an email question about if he treats the on-air talent
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differently than the off-air writing talent. So we'll be back
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right after this. Your time is valuable. Go VIP and
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00:17:56.940 --> 00:18:02.059
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00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:06.079
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00:18:22.769 --> 00:18:28.730
we offer VIP membership. PWTorch.com slash GoVIP. But you can
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00:18:28.750 --> 00:18:31.109
always listen on demand if you're not able to listen live.
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00:18:31.630 --> 00:18:36.059
It is 119 Eastern Time Thursday, September 1st, and I'm
313
00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:39.059
joined by Matt McCarthy. Matt, by way of introduction for
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00:18:39.099 --> 00:18:43.759
any newer listeners, talk about your time in WWE and
315
00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:47.740
maybe share one story that you never dared tell before
316
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:51.500
or something like that. Oh, I've got to put you on.
317
00:18:52.500 --> 00:18:55.160
I find myself $ 500 every time I turn off a
318
00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:56.650
mic during a commercial break and don't turn it back
319
00:18:56.789 --> 00:18:59.690
on and throw to someone with a question. So I'm
320
00:18:59.730 --> 00:19:01.990
now going to start doling out $ 1 bills to myself
321
00:19:01.990 --> 00:19:03.430
500 times, Matt, while you answer that question.
322
00:19:05.569 --> 00:19:06.230
I was on mute.
323
00:19:06.269 --> 00:19:08.609
I just told the most amazing story about when I
324
00:19:08.650 --> 00:19:10.190
was on the road with WWE.
325
00:19:10.410 --> 00:19:10.829
Oh, shoot.
326
00:19:11.690 --> 00:19:12.390
Oh, man.
327
00:19:14.970 --> 00:19:20.069
Yeah, I was a writer on the creative team from... Oh,
328
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:23.859
let me think. I can always get the dates right.
329
00:19:23.980 --> 00:19:31.240
I started November 22, 2011, and I quit October 17, 2012.
330
00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:36.319
So just under a year. I was on the home
331
00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:39.809
team and on the road. So this would have been.
332
00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:42.140
Uh.
333
00:19:42.299 --> 00:19:47.849
wrestlemania twenty-eight in miami rocker's one uh... that would have
334
00:19:47.869 --> 00:19:52.299
been uh, my time there. Um, I, I got to see, uh,
335
00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:56.609
a lot. I got to see, um, them pair up
336
00:19:56.660 --> 00:20:00.369
Daniel Bryan and, and AJ Lee, which, which led to
337
00:20:00.470 --> 00:20:07.750
really both of them, uh, having, uh, uh, kickstarting jumpstarting, uh,
338
00:20:07.890 --> 00:20:15.559
really revving up both their careers. I'll tell you this.
339
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:22.880
I was in the room when they were pitching to Brian.
340
00:20:22.900 --> 00:20:25.480
Because it was around the time where Vince was like,
341
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:28.880
you know, we need to have relationships. Everybody should be
342
00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:31.140
in a relationship. So it was, all right. So the
343
00:20:31.180 --> 00:20:35.369
focus became Daniel Bryan and AJ Lee. They're going to
344
00:20:35.410 --> 00:20:39.490
be an on-screen couple. And Brian did not like the idea.
345
00:20:40.230 --> 00:20:46.180
Because if you recall, not too long before that, the
346
00:20:46.359 --> 00:20:50.099
gimmick was he was dating both Bella Twins or something.
347
00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:56.000
He was paired up with the Bella Twins, which it's
348
00:20:56.299 --> 00:21:02.730
ironic looking back now for two reasons. One, because his
349
00:21:02.769 --> 00:21:04.029
thing was like, well, you know, you paired me up
350
00:21:04.049 --> 00:21:06.130
with the Bella Twins and nothing really happened with that.
351
00:21:06.230 --> 00:21:08.150
Why are you pairing me up with AJ? Nothing's really
352
00:21:08.170 --> 00:21:08.910
going to happen with this.
353
00:21:09.529 --> 00:21:09.630
One.
354
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:15.109
Something did happen with it, and both of them solidified themselves.
355
00:21:15.589 --> 00:21:18.910
That's how they both got over, AJ and Brian. That
356
00:21:18.950 --> 00:21:24.089
relationship and that storyline was just money. But the other
357
00:21:24.130 --> 00:21:26.930
thing was Brian saying, well, nothing came of me being
358
00:21:26.950 --> 00:21:28.970
with the Bellas. Pretty sure he got a wife out
359
00:21:28.990 --> 00:21:32.049
of that deal. So I thought that was funny.
360
00:21:32.130 --> 00:21:33.650
That's a detail worth mentioning.
361
00:21:33.809 --> 00:21:33.970
Yeah.
362
00:21:35.190 --> 00:21:37.480
It is a detail worth mentioning. Uh, he did, he
363
00:21:37.500 --> 00:21:39.839
did happen upon the love of his life, but what
364
00:21:39.859 --> 00:21:42.720
are you going to do? Um, so, so, you know,
365
00:21:42.740 --> 00:21:46.809
things like that. Um, you know, they were, uh, they
366
00:21:46.829 --> 00:21:50.470
were pushing Seamus. If, if everybody remembers WrestleMania 28, the
367
00:21:50.509 --> 00:21:52.950
idea was going to be, you know, kind of the
368
00:21:53.009 --> 00:21:56.549
ultimate warrior versus honky-tonk man that Seamus was going to
369
00:21:56.589 --> 00:22:01.599
beat Daniel Bryan. And, you know, a second, um, And
370
00:22:01.700 --> 00:22:04.200
it totally backfired and it wound up getting Brian even
371
00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:07.369
more over. So it was actually, that was also interesting
372
00:22:07.529 --> 00:22:08.789
knowing that that was going to happen.
373
00:22:08.990 --> 00:22:10.250
Yeah.
374
00:22:10.269 --> 00:22:17.049
I remember specifically being backstage, uh, at mania at Miami. Uh,
375
00:22:17.170 --> 00:22:22.799
I was sitting not where, because there's monitors all over
376
00:22:22.819 --> 00:22:26.700
the place. There, there's like a big TV. This is
377
00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.160
true at, you know, TV. No, not just at mania.
378
00:22:31.109 --> 00:22:35.710
But there's a place where talent can view the show.
379
00:22:36.309 --> 00:22:38.609
And that's basically where everybody is. But, you know, people
380
00:22:38.630 --> 00:22:40.069
are all over the place. There's a lot going on.
381
00:22:40.089 --> 00:22:43.329
But I remember I was sitting on one of those
382
00:22:43.490 --> 00:22:49.170
crates next to David Otunga. I don't remember who else
383
00:22:49.289 --> 00:22:51.470
was there. Other people were floating around. But I remember
384
00:22:51.490 --> 00:22:57.000
me and David Otunga sitting there and watching it. The
385
00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:00.619
match takes about a second. Bryan loses. I mean, Daniel
386
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:02.349
Bryan doesn't get a WrestleMania match.
387
00:23:02.809 --> 00:23:03.529
Even Sheamus.
388
00:23:03.569 --> 00:23:05.430
I mean, it's like him and Sheamus would have put
389
00:23:05.549 --> 00:23:08.309
on an incredible match. I love Sheamus' matches, you know.
390
00:23:10.750 --> 00:23:14.730
And Otunga turned to me and just goes, what the
391
00:23:14.789 --> 00:23:15.890
hell was that?
392
00:23:16.809 --> 00:23:18.250
So I always thought.
393
00:23:18.930 --> 00:23:20.710
That was pretty funny.
394
00:23:20.750 --> 00:23:25.700
That is good. What is, how does the, as you
395
00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:27.759
perceive it, the public perception of who Daniel Bryan is
396
00:23:27.779 --> 00:23:29.559
and the side of himself that he shows on TV,
397
00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:33.140
how is that in any way different, either muted or
398
00:23:33.309 --> 00:23:36.589
amplified or contradictory of who he was as a person
399
00:23:37.210 --> 00:23:39.170
as you witnessed or interacted with him behind the scenes
400
00:23:39.210 --> 00:23:39.549
back then?
401
00:23:42.029 --> 00:23:46.059
He's one of those guys that the reason he comes
402
00:23:46.170 --> 00:23:49.339
off so genuine and likable on TV is because he's
403
00:23:49.380 --> 00:23:53.450
being himself. He's He really is a genuine... He was
404
00:23:53.910 --> 00:23:58.359
easily the nicest person I met there. But also in
405
00:23:58.380 --> 00:24:02.259
the back of my mind, I remember thinking, of everybody here,
406
00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:04.019
this guy is probably the one who could kick my
407
00:24:04.099 --> 00:24:10.829
ass the worst. It wasn't lost on me.
408
00:24:10.849 --> 00:24:15.589
I think most fans understand that Daniel Bryan would kick
409
00:24:15.630 --> 00:24:17.529
Batista's ass. I think most fans believe that.
410
00:24:18.779 --> 00:24:19.440
Yeah.
411
00:24:19.859 --> 00:24:22.539
Yeah. I mean, there's, you know, eight-year-olds who don't.
412
00:24:25.420 --> 00:24:31.250
That's right. Because, like, you know, my first day on
413
00:24:31.269 --> 00:24:33.289
the road, it's like, you know, the big thing was
414
00:24:34.029 --> 00:24:36.650
go introduce yourself to everybody, shake everybody's hand, even if
415
00:24:37.170 --> 00:24:39.670
you don't recognize the person, even if you're not even
416
00:24:39.730 --> 00:24:41.750
sure if they work for the company, maybe they're just
417
00:24:41.789 --> 00:24:45.940
local crew. Like, it's better... that you embarrass yourself and
418
00:24:45.980 --> 00:24:49.019
just start introducing yourself to a hot dog vendor and saying, hi,
419
00:24:49.059 --> 00:24:52.380
I'm Matt McCarthy. I'm one of the writers that potentially snub.
420
00:24:53.289 --> 00:24:56.609
God knows who works for the company. Very, very, very big,
421
00:24:56.650 --> 00:25:00.210
important deal. But it's like the two people that made
422
00:25:00.250 --> 00:25:02.930
me feel the most comfortable and didn't make it feel
423
00:25:02.990 --> 00:25:08.049
like I was interrupting or, You know, it's kind of
424
00:25:08.069 --> 00:25:10.950
like when you make eye contact with someone and they're like, oh, great,
425
00:25:10.990 --> 00:25:13.089
this guy's going to interrupt me or introduce himself to
426
00:25:13.130 --> 00:25:15.990
me or they're just going to blow me off or blah, blah, blah. Honestly,
427
00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:19.920
the two people that were like, saw me coming and
428
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:23.400
made it easy for me and introduced themselves. I mean,
429
00:25:23.579 --> 00:25:28.660
William Regal introduced himself to me, which still blows my mind.
430
00:25:28.740 --> 00:25:31.619
Like he was talking to, we were in Oklahoma City.
431
00:25:31.660 --> 00:25:34.089
He's talking to Jim Ross and somebody else was there.
432
00:25:35.269 --> 00:25:37.380
I think Seamus, I don't know who it was. But
433
00:25:37.420 --> 00:25:40.319
I just came walking up, and William Regal just kind of,
434
00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:45.380
not leads the conversation, but just kind of, it was
435
00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:48.220
three guys talking, and he kind of opened up the
436
00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:54.549
circle to allow me in, which was just, it still
437
00:25:54.569 --> 00:25:57.890
means a lot. But Daniel Bryan, it was another one.
438
00:25:57.910 --> 00:26:00.970
He was just so, he was excited for me. I
439
00:26:00.990 --> 00:26:02.769
was like, hey, I'm the new writer. This is my
440
00:26:02.809 --> 00:26:05.690
first day. He was, I could see he was happy
441
00:26:05.730 --> 00:26:06.049
for me.
442
00:26:06.410 --> 00:26:06.670
Wow.
443
00:26:06.750 --> 00:26:11.769
You know? Like, that's just, I don't know, that says
444
00:26:11.809 --> 00:26:14.730
something about who he is and his character, you know?
445
00:26:14.750 --> 00:26:15.650
I don't know.
446
00:26:15.890 --> 00:26:16.789
Well, he sure was mean to Miz.
447
00:26:16.809 --> 00:26:18.230
That's something that will always stick with me.
448
00:26:18.349 --> 00:26:23.450
He sure was mean to Miz last year. Wow, he
449
00:26:23.470 --> 00:26:27.059
showed that side of himself. You fight like a coward.
450
00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:31.859
You wrestle like you don't want to get hit. You're soft.
451
00:26:32.539 --> 00:26:32.940
Yeah.
452
00:26:34.730 --> 00:26:40.559
And that whole exchange was just, wow, was that compelling,
453
00:26:40.859 --> 00:26:45.859
you know? Because it's like, my beautiful and talented wife,
454
00:26:45.980 --> 00:26:49.079
she's not a pro wrestling fan, but she loves me
455
00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:52.480
with all her heart. And she's tried. And she's like, Matt,
456
00:26:52.779 --> 00:26:55.640
you know, I try. I don't know, it's just not
457
00:26:55.660 --> 00:27:00.059
for me. I'm like, that's fine. So there are very
458
00:27:00.180 --> 00:27:02.200
few things that I will be like, oh, no, you
459
00:27:02.220 --> 00:27:04.690
need to watch this. that was one of those things.
460
00:27:05.410 --> 00:27:07.990
I was like, I was like, Lenny, you gotta see this.
461
00:27:08.109 --> 00:27:11.269
And she's, she's like, oh, oh, that was real. Oh,
462
00:27:11.309 --> 00:27:11.970
that was awesome.
463
00:27:12.289 --> 00:27:12.670
Wow.
464
00:27:13.089 --> 00:27:16.319
You know, it's, it's, you can't argue with compelling television,
465
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:23.180
you know? Uh, I, uh, I, I, you know, the,
466
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:27.359
the post and pre shows that is all after my time.
467
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:29.640
I don't really know. It, those shows don't come off
468
00:27:29.740 --> 00:27:36.059
like they're as, you know, word for word scripted like
469
00:27:36.140 --> 00:27:40.400
the flagship shows would be because it's just supposed to
470
00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:45.869
be it's a post show but god I would love
471
00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:49.369
to know what the deal I mean I saw there
472
00:27:49.390 --> 00:27:51.829
was an interview with Brian where he said very little
473
00:27:51.869 --> 00:27:54.109
of it was scripted and I think that.
474
00:27:54.069 --> 00:27:55.630
Came off where did he say that?
475
00:27:55.650 --> 00:27:59.069
I don't know if they were I think he did
476
00:27:59.109 --> 00:28:06.099
he say that to Coachman? I didn't even watch it.
477
00:28:06.130 --> 00:28:11.039
I was scrolling and saw a headline that said that.
478
00:28:11.059 --> 00:28:16.200
So I can't even cite the source, but it's floating
479
00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:25.170
out there. That came off to me like Ryan was
480
00:28:25.309 --> 00:28:29.569
really kind of teetering the line. You know how like
481
00:28:29.589 --> 00:28:33.309
in pro wrestling where you can say something that is
482
00:28:33.369 --> 00:28:37.869
the truth, but it's like there is like the backstage
483
00:28:37.950 --> 00:28:41.069
context and then there's the on-screen context?
484
00:28:41.190 --> 00:28:41.670
Mm-hmm.
485
00:28:42.190 --> 00:28:49.190
Whereas it's like, yeah. And he was just... I mean,
486
00:28:49.240 --> 00:28:54.059
he was just nailing Miz on that stuff. And my
487
00:28:54.099 --> 00:28:55.220
hat's off to Miz.
488
00:28:56.460 --> 00:28:57.309
Because....
489
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:02.779
He was smart enough to, and this is also assuming
490
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:07.500
that they're improvising or whatever. I don't know. Ad-libbing, whatever
491
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:11.009
you want to call it. Miz was smart enough to
492
00:29:11.430 --> 00:29:15.829
keep it kayfabe. Bring it back. Brian's like, I don't
493
00:29:15.849 --> 00:29:16.190
like the.
494
00:29:16.109 --> 00:29:16.710
Way you wrestle.
495
00:29:17.230 --> 00:29:24.380
You wrestle like cowards. Like, that could be a legitimate criticism. Like, backstage,
496
00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:27.019
one pro wrestler gives another pro wrestler. Like, you're out
497
00:29:27.059 --> 00:29:29.609
there acting like you don't want to get hit. I'm
498
00:29:29.730 --> 00:29:33.190
sure that has been said to many gentlemen and young
499
00:29:33.230 --> 00:29:36.450
ladies who have been training to become pro wrestlers or
500
00:29:36.549 --> 00:29:40.920
people get whatever. Yeah. But Miz was so smart of
501
00:29:40.980 --> 00:29:43.640
being like, well, I didn't cheat on Sunday. I, I
502
00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:44.420
beat Apollo.
503
00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:46.720
That was really smart. I, you know.
504
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:51.690
And he's like, I wrestled the way that you like. Fucking,
505
00:29:51.930 --> 00:29:58.130
I didn't mean to swear. Uh, just, just brilliant. Just brilliant. Um,
506
00:30:00.029 --> 00:30:05.759
I like... And then, you know, just... Miz just... That
507
00:30:05.779 --> 00:30:07.039
was the best interview of his career.
508
00:30:07.579 --> 00:30:07.779
Yeah.
509
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:08.259
You know?
510
00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:13.980
I mean... And the stuff on Thursday, I thought he was...
511
00:30:14.140 --> 00:30:18.099
You know, Miz was firing... Or on Tuesday. Today's Thursday.
512
00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:22.630
On Tuesday. I thought he was firing again. Because, like, really,
513
00:30:22.690 --> 00:30:23.210
when they.
514
00:30:24.970 --> 00:30:29.769
It's interesting. You know, because the whole Damien Mizdow thing...
515
00:30:30.569 --> 00:30:33.109
how that all went down. And then Miz was just
516
00:30:33.150 --> 00:30:36.369
kind of floating around when, when they paired Miz back
517
00:30:36.470 --> 00:30:40.380
up with Maurice, it has been like a second coming
518
00:30:40.410 --> 00:30:45.059
of Miz. It's, it, it, it, it, it started making
519
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:49.339
much more sense what his voice is, what his character is, um,
520
00:30:49.480 --> 00:30:54.579
that over the top Hollywood elitist, you know, um, and
521
00:30:54.619 --> 00:30:56.619
I love a heel that thinks he's a bigger star
522
00:30:56.660 --> 00:31:01.349
than he is. That's just, that's, uh, I love that. Yes.
523
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:11.539
Are you a fan of AEW looking to sit back,
524
00:31:11.660 --> 00:31:14.680
relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
525
00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:15.259
your passion?
526
00:31:15.859 --> 00:31:17.700
Do you want to be talked off the ledge after
527
00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:19.920
a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
528
00:31:19.940 --> 00:31:20.440
they thinking?
529
00:31:21.079 --> 00:31:23.519
Do you want to join a discussion on what AEW
530
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:26.019
is doing right and what they could do to improve?
531
00:31:26.420 --> 00:31:29.049
Then join me, Joel. And me, Greg, for the All
532
00:31:29.109 --> 00:31:32.829
Elite Conversation Club every Friday on the PWTorch Livecast feed.
533
00:31:33.730 --> 00:31:37.369
Search PWTorch in your podcast app and subscribe to PWTorch
534
00:31:37.410 --> 00:31:41.859
Dailycast or stream our shows directly from PWTorch.com. Find full
535
00:31:41.900 --> 00:31:46.859
details on the PWTorch Dailycast lineup at PWTorchDailycast.com.
536
00:31:55.720 --> 00:32:00.660
Um, and his outfits, my God, my God, you know,
537
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:02.160
I mean, when he wears a suit, he's money, but
538
00:32:02.180 --> 00:32:04.019
when he comes out in that, I don't even know
539
00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:06.119
what to call it. If it's a robe or a
540
00:32:06.259 --> 00:32:09.660
cape or a rapper, I mean, you know, this.
541
00:32:11.079 --> 00:32:11.400
Mrs.
542
00:32:11.480 --> 00:32:11.740
Mrs.
543
00:32:11.779 --> 00:32:14.319
Doing some of the best work of his career.
544
00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:17.509
I mean, like we, like we set up top, he was,
545
00:32:17.849 --> 00:32:19.170
he was top of the PWI 500.
546
00:32:19.170 --> 00:32:23.170
Yep. And then it was like, you know, like five
547
00:32:23.230 --> 00:32:26.920
years of just, you know, beating him down and it
548
00:32:26.980 --> 00:32:29.259
feels like he's getting sapped of his confidence and he's
549
00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:32.519
like out there you know flubbing lines and you know
550
00:32:33.079 --> 00:32:36.579
it it finally i feel like he's getting back to
551
00:32:37.380 --> 00:32:40.039
being the miz again it reminds me a lot of
552
00:32:40.460 --> 00:32:44.859
like when kofi first started in the new day where
553
00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:49.410
it was like it i feel like it's like guys
554
00:32:49.509 --> 00:32:54.700
especially pro wrestling guys start doing their best stuff I
555
00:32:55.420 --> 00:32:58.099
think it's true for all artists, especially a comedian or
556
00:32:58.119 --> 00:33:02.049
a wrestler. When they stop caring. When they're like, look,
557
00:33:02.130 --> 00:33:05.509
what are they going to do? Fire me? It's the
558
00:33:05.529 --> 00:33:09.470
Matt Hardy. It's the Matt Hardy, broken Matt Hardy syndrome.
559
00:33:09.490 --> 00:33:13.160
Where he's just like, screw it. Let's just do it.
560
00:33:13.309 --> 00:33:15.009
Let's just have fun. I'm just going to go out
561
00:33:15.049 --> 00:33:20.529
there and own it. You can't... Like, you can't break
562
00:33:20.589 --> 00:33:23.859
a man who's been broken. You know, once he's gotten
563
00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:26.220
to the point where he's like, I got nothing to
564
00:33:26.259 --> 00:33:29.220
lose and nowhere to go but up, then you're going
565
00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:31.119
to see some amazing stuff.
566
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:35.579
I think we saw that with a certain Steve Austin. Unbelievable.
567
00:33:35.779 --> 00:33:36.880
We saw that with Steve Austin.
568
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:38.019
Exactly.
569
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:39.369
Austin 316. Exactly.
570
00:33:39.380 --> 00:33:44.029
Steve Austin's the best example. ECW stunning Steve Austin. He's like,
571
00:33:44.549 --> 00:33:48.769
there's no flares here. There's no Hogan's here. Nobody can
572
00:33:48.829 --> 00:33:52.559
hold me back, you know? I still watch that interview.
573
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:57.059
I went to my dear friend and co-host of the
574
00:33:57.099 --> 00:34:01.900
We Watch Wrestling podcast's wedding, Vince Averill, and I was
575
00:34:02.660 --> 00:34:05.079
blessed enough and honored enough that he asked me to
576
00:34:05.140 --> 00:34:06.339
say a few words at his wedding.
577
00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:06.799
What?
578
00:34:07.180 --> 00:34:07.380
And.
579
00:34:08.820 --> 00:34:09.179
Go ahead.
580
00:34:09.519 --> 00:34:10.510
Vince.
581
00:34:10.929 --> 00:34:11.010
And.
582
00:34:13.860 --> 00:34:18.099
And Vince Averill, I still watch that promo from time
583
00:34:18.139 --> 00:34:21.179
to time. It's his absolute favorite promo of all time.
584
00:34:21.820 --> 00:34:25.179
And I start off my speech at his wedding. I go,
585
00:34:26.090 --> 00:34:29.530
you know, when Eric Bischoff told his secretary to call
586
00:34:29.590 --> 00:34:32.650
her secretary to leave me. Oh, wait, no, I'm sorry.
587
00:34:32.949 --> 00:34:33.789
That's the wrong speech.
588
00:34:33.889 --> 00:34:39.010
That's somebody else's brother. That's somebody else's brother. As 96%
589
00:34:39.010 --> 00:34:44.030
of the people give you a blank stare, there's 4% going, awesome. Awesome. Right.
590
00:34:44.349 --> 00:34:49.719
Vince and Casey Corbin are sitting there just tittering with laughter.
591
00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:54.800
I thought that Miz, the way he reacted last Tuesday,
592
00:34:56.599 --> 00:35:02.630
could have been a genuine hidden camera exchange between Miz
593
00:35:02.829 --> 00:35:07.670
and somebody else that actually happened after a few beers
594
00:35:09.110 --> 00:35:11.710
six months earlier. And it could have been, instead of
595
00:35:11.750 --> 00:35:14.730
Daniel Bryan, because Daniel probably would not have poked and
596
00:35:14.929 --> 00:35:17.190
prodded Miz that way in real life, it could have
597
00:35:17.210 --> 00:35:19.909
been somebody else. Could have been CM Punk.
598
00:35:19.929 --> 00:35:20.849
Well, you know, it's so.
599
00:35:22.190 --> 00:35:22.510
Sure.
600
00:35:22.670 --> 00:35:25.909
Yeah, I mean, it came across like Miz was channeling
601
00:35:26.550 --> 00:35:30.530
a genuine reaction that he had to that genuine criticism
602
00:35:31.050 --> 00:35:34.250
at some point and enacted it, and it came from
603
00:35:34.289 --> 00:35:37.800
the heart. And that's, I think, what felt so real
604
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:38.050
about it.
605
00:35:40.210 --> 00:35:44.090
Yeah, but it's also like Miz made a good point.
606
00:35:44.110 --> 00:35:50.219
He's like, yeah. He's like, yeah. I wrestle a much
607
00:35:50.260 --> 00:35:52.360
different style than you, Brian. And guess what? My neck's
608
00:35:52.420 --> 00:35:56.059
not broken. I'm not saying Dana Bryant isn't a broken neck.
609
00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:58.440
That's not what he said. But he's saying, I can
610
00:35:58.460 --> 00:36:00.699
go out there and it's not like Miz has never
611
00:36:00.739 --> 00:36:03.059
been injured. But the idea that he's like, I can
612
00:36:03.099 --> 00:36:05.099
wrestle like that for the next 10 years. I don't
613
00:36:05.139 --> 00:36:08.559
get injured. I'm out there every day. And it's like, well...
614
00:36:09.989 --> 00:36:14.179
he makes a very good point because isn't that supposed
615
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:21.059
to be the idea of the art of pro wrestling? Uh, no,
616
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:23.639
isn't that supposed to be the idea of the art
617
00:36:23.659 --> 00:36:27.639
of pro wrestling? That it's a simulated fight that, you know,
618
00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:30.210
it's like Bret Hart says in that, in, in one
619
00:36:30.230 --> 00:36:32.670
of my absolute all time favorite movies, wrestling with shadows.
620
00:36:33.349 --> 00:36:37.429
He's like, you know, there's no art to that to
621
00:36:37.469 --> 00:36:40.269
go out there and intentionally hurt yourself or hurt someone else.
622
00:36:40.329 --> 00:36:41.269
There's no art in that.
623
00:36:41.369 --> 00:36:43.400
And I'm not saying it's like cutting the lady in
624
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:46.739
half at a magic show. Exactly.
625
00:36:46.820 --> 00:36:47.320
Exactly.
626
00:36:47.460 --> 00:36:47.880
It's not.
627
00:36:47.900 --> 00:36:48.239
Yeah.
628
00:36:48.460 --> 00:36:51.719
It's gruesome. It's gory and it's very believable, but you
629
00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:55.889
just killed her. Right.
630
00:36:56.550 --> 00:36:56.949
Right.
631
00:36:57.769 --> 00:37:00.090
Um, but it's, but it looked more real in that respect.
632
00:37:00.130 --> 00:37:02.170
I was like, yeah, go ahead.
633
00:37:02.409 --> 00:37:04.010
Sorry. Right. Yeah.
634
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:09.400
Yeah, it becomes, well, what, yeah, I mean, it's interesting.
635
00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:15.150
It's like, yeah, Brian, you, I mean, you can't deny
636
00:37:15.170 --> 00:37:22.489
Daniel Bryan's talent, but it's the way he wrestled clearly
637
00:37:22.530 --> 00:37:28.960
shortened his career. Yeah, oh, yeah. So it's, there's, I
638
00:37:28.980 --> 00:37:32.260
don't know, it's, the most compelling things aren't black and white.
639
00:37:33.050 --> 00:37:35.449
the compelling things are in the gray area, you know,
640
00:37:35.869 --> 00:37:37.639
and this is one of those things where it's like, wow,
641
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:40.059
I never thought of it that way. This is, this
642
00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:44.019
is really interesting. I don't know. I liked it. I
643
00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:44.389
loved it.
644
00:37:44.679 --> 00:37:44.980
Yeah.
645
00:37:45.340 --> 00:37:45.519
Yeah.
646
00:37:45.539 --> 00:37:48.000
I decided more with Ms. I mean, when you have
647
00:37:48.019 --> 00:37:50.449
two 35 year olds sitting opposite each other and one
648
00:37:50.510 --> 00:37:54.750
guy is prematurely forced into retirement, which he, by the way,
649
00:37:54.769 --> 00:37:56.730
made clear he disagreed with and would wrestle if they,
650
00:37:56.889 --> 00:37:59.010
they would let him, which was a poignant moment in
651
00:37:59.050 --> 00:38:02.019
that exchange. And then you've got a 35-year-old who doesn't
652
00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:04.710
have the bumps and bruises of most 35-year-olds. He's the
653
00:38:04.730 --> 00:38:07.690
headline of WrestleMania. He went through a spell where he
654
00:38:07.710 --> 00:38:09.849
was awful on the microphone. It looked like he was
655
00:38:09.889 --> 00:38:12.710
sucking on a sour lemon and repeating the same lines.
656
00:38:12.769 --> 00:38:14.150
And then all of a sudden, and it was even
657
00:38:14.190 --> 00:38:17.099
before Maryse, he got rejuvenated. And then she just took
658
00:38:17.139 --> 00:38:23.000
him to another level. Miz actually gets it more than Bryan. Now,
659
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:27.159
Daniel Bryan, this is the thing. There's a happy middle
660
00:38:27.179 --> 00:38:30.150
ground between the two. Because Daniel Bryan, there's something about
661
00:38:30.190 --> 00:38:33.150
him that would, he'd still be wrestling today and still
662
00:38:33.170 --> 00:38:36.210
be a big draw if he didn't work, if he
663
00:38:36.230 --> 00:38:38.269
didn't sacrifice as much as he did. And I don't
664
00:38:38.369 --> 00:38:41.199
know if he realizes that. That's the sad part is
665
00:38:41.480 --> 00:38:43.260
people don't like Daniel Bryan because he did top rope
666
00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:45.139
headbutts when he had a bad neck and nerve damage.
667
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:47.820
They didn't like Daniel Bryan because he would take chair,
668
00:38:47.840 --> 00:38:49.820
stiff chair shots when he had concussions and not take
669
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:51.880
time off. They love Daniel Bryan for the reasons you
670
00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:54.219
said at the beginning of my initial question about him,
671
00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:58.010
because he comes across as genuinely likable. Oh, and in
672
00:38:58.030 --> 00:39:00.809
addition to that, he shows great fire. He sells well.
673
00:39:00.849 --> 00:39:03.670
His offense looks real. He seems believably tough. And he's
674
00:39:03.690 --> 00:39:08.639
got that fighting spirit that you admire. Anyway, that's why
675
00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:10.679
people like Daniel Bryan, he didn't need to sacrifice his
676
00:39:10.739 --> 00:39:15.280
body and end up in premature retirement to be hugely popular.
677
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:17.940
And he has some intangibles that Miz doesn't have. Miz
678
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:21.590
is a good, ideally an upper mid-card heel who visits
679
00:39:21.630 --> 00:39:24.030
the main events periodically. That's him. And you need people
680
00:39:24.070 --> 00:39:29.599
like him. Daniel Bryan is a top-tier perennial main event guy.
681
00:39:30.199 --> 00:39:33.079
for not intangible reasons, because I just listed some of
682
00:39:33.099 --> 00:39:37.559
them that are tangible, but you can't teach that. Daniel
683
00:39:37.579 --> 00:39:39.960
Bryan's full of things you can't teach that make him special,
684
00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:43.719
but if you subtract the stuff that damaged his brain
685
00:39:44.340 --> 00:39:48.289
and his body, he still... And I think he's more
686
00:39:48.329 --> 00:39:50.750
insecure than he realizes in this regard. Fans would still
687
00:39:50.769 --> 00:39:53.980
love him and still love his matches. Because there's the
688
00:39:54.019 --> 00:39:56.639
style you wrestle to get over, and then there's the
689
00:39:56.679 --> 00:40:00.860
style you wrestle to get rich and stay over. And
690
00:40:00.900 --> 00:40:02.480
Daniel Bryan didn't make that adjustment.
691
00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:04.219
I like that.
692
00:40:04.300 --> 00:40:04.619
Wow.
693
00:40:05.079 --> 00:40:08.489
Yeah. No, you're absolutely right. Because it is like the...
694
00:40:08.449 --> 00:40:12.469
I don't know. It reminds me of Mick Foley. Because
695
00:40:12.550 --> 00:40:18.230
I was on another podcast where it's... it's called you,
696
00:40:18.269 --> 00:40:26.719
you should love wrestling where, where it's, it's, yeah, it's a, um, yeah, it's, it's,
697
00:40:26.840 --> 00:40:30.929
it's interesting. Cause I, because my show, we watch wrestling. It's,
698
00:40:31.179 --> 00:40:36.230
it started where my other cohost, Tom Sibley, uh, was
699
00:40:36.269 --> 00:40:40.730
a totally new fan, really into it, but totally green. So,
700
00:40:41.530 --> 00:40:44.139
and still is, you know, there's, there's, you know, it, it,
701
00:40:44.739 --> 00:40:47.079
as much as he's been watching wrestling for the last
702
00:40:47.139 --> 00:40:50.820
three years, there's still, you know, I've been, I've been
703
00:40:50.860 --> 00:40:56.079
watching wrestling longer than, you know, I've been watching wrestling
704
00:40:56.099 --> 00:40:59.679
longer than Jesus was alive, which is an outrageous statement
705
00:40:59.699 --> 00:41:02.599
to make. But I realized that it's like, my God, I, it's, it's,
706
00:41:03.300 --> 00:41:06.500
it's been longer than 33 years. I'm like, it's, that's
707
00:41:06.519 --> 00:41:10.239
just blows my mind that I've been watching wrestling for
708
00:41:10.300 --> 00:41:13.360
so long, but it's, It gets longer. And I hope
709
00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:14.239
I didn't offend anybody.
710
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:14.980
It gets longer.
711
00:41:15.260 --> 00:41:18.940
I was raised Roman Catholic, so it just keeps getting longer,
712
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:22.170
doesn't it? But I hope I didn't offend anybody by
713
00:41:22.210 --> 00:41:29.449
making that analogy. But I haven't watched... Oh, so You
714
00:41:29.469 --> 00:41:32.150
Should Love Wrestling is a show where it's two comedians
715
00:41:32.190 --> 00:41:36.929
who are Lifetime fans, and then the third host, not
716
00:41:36.989 --> 00:41:39.489
only does he not watch wrestling, he does not like it.
717
00:41:40.340 --> 00:41:44.349
So it's kind of this I don't want to say
718
00:41:44.429 --> 00:41:49.309
futile effort, because he's slowly coming around. But it's of
719
00:41:49.449 --> 00:41:52.409
showing him matches and interviews and stuff, being like, you know,
720
00:41:52.610 --> 00:41:54.769
here are reasons you should enjoy it. And my first
721
00:41:54.809 --> 00:41:57.340
spot on the show, I was like, well, I'll show
722
00:41:57.380 --> 00:42:00.920
him the match that I always show people when I
723
00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:04.760
try to get them into wrestling. King of the Ring, 1998,
724
00:42:04.760 --> 00:42:08.619
Hell in a Cell. And I haven't watched that in
725
00:42:08.659 --> 00:42:10.659
its entirety in a long time.
726
00:42:11.300 --> 00:42:11.440
And.
727
00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:19.010
It's crazy how much the business has changed. And it's
728
00:42:19.159 --> 00:42:21.889
crazy how many things in that match I used to
729
00:42:21.949 --> 00:42:24.070
point to and be like, look, see, this is why
730
00:42:24.110 --> 00:42:27.230
Mick Foley's awesome. And now I look at those things
731
00:42:27.250 --> 00:42:33.170
and I'm like, I don't enjoy them as much. There
732
00:42:33.210 --> 00:42:37.429
are things in that match that probably someday I won't
733
00:42:37.489 --> 00:42:41.530
enjoy at all. Definitely, I mean, the chair shots to
734
00:42:41.550 --> 00:42:46.340
the head, it's just, Even 20 years ago, I was like,
735
00:42:47.980 --> 00:42:51.880
that's pushing it. And now we know so much more
736
00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:55.219
than we did. So it's one of those weird things
737
00:42:55.260 --> 00:43:02.130
where it's like, yeah, you know, it's tough. And especially
738
00:43:02.150 --> 00:43:06.570
with pro wrestling. It's because it's like, at some point,
739
00:43:07.949 --> 00:43:12.230
you start working yourself, you know? And it's like, how
740
00:43:12.329 --> 00:43:14.929
far do we need to go? And can we pull
741
00:43:14.969 --> 00:43:18.389
it back? And can you put the toothpaste back in
742
00:43:18.409 --> 00:43:21.400
the tube type of thing? And it really, you can't.
743
00:43:22.059 --> 00:43:25.579
Because the audience is always growing and there's always new
744
00:43:26.420 --> 00:43:30.900
young members of the audience who are ready for you
745
00:43:30.980 --> 00:43:34.710
to explain to them how to watch pro wrestling. And
746
00:43:34.909 --> 00:43:37.730
even as a fan who's been watching it, both of us,
747
00:43:37.829 --> 00:43:38.670
our whole lives wait.
748
00:43:39.909 --> 00:43:40.360
We....
749
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:43.949
View it now very differently. And we can go back
750
00:43:43.989 --> 00:43:46.449
to those old matches like that Mick Foley stuff, or
751
00:43:46.510 --> 00:43:50.889
even like Daniel Bryan stuff. And you're like, damn, you know, it's,
752
00:43:52.349 --> 00:43:58.429
it's great, but it's also what, at what cost, you know, and,
753
00:43:58.590 --> 00:44:00.869
and we, and we see the cost and the shortening of,
754
00:44:01.670 --> 00:44:05.739
you know, Daniel Bryan's career or, or, you know, Mick
755
00:44:05.780 --> 00:44:09.980
Foley's career or guys like that. And it's, and it's, it's,
756
00:44:10.900 --> 00:44:15.429
And it's that gray area. It's very interesting. But you
757
00:44:15.469 --> 00:44:18.170
know what I wanted to address that you brought up before?
758
00:44:18.230 --> 00:44:20.929
You used the phrase of Daniel Bryan doesn't seem like
759
00:44:20.949 --> 00:44:22.989
the kind of guy who would kind of poke the
760
00:44:23.010 --> 00:44:29.030
bear or that type of thing. But did you watch
761
00:44:29.070 --> 00:44:32.659
that table for three? What was it? Was it Daniel
762
00:44:32.679 --> 00:44:40.219
Bryan and Ryback and Dolph? Yeah. the thing that came
763
00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:45.179
that really struck me about that was, uh, how much
764
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:49.059
it felt like Brian was kind of given right back
765
00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:52.449
a hard time, just giving him a little, a little crap,
766
00:44:52.469 --> 00:44:55.489
just kind of, you know, poking the big guy a
767
00:44:55.510 --> 00:45:00.909
little bit. Um, so I, and I liked, I liked
768
00:45:00.949 --> 00:45:04.070
seeing that aspect of his personality, you know, of like, he's,
769
00:45:04.349 --> 00:45:09.389
you know, just a guy, you know, Second thing. I
770
00:45:09.409 --> 00:45:10.039
wanted to bring that up.
771
00:45:10.469 --> 00:45:12.010
I'm going to go to our second break. When we
772
00:45:12.030 --> 00:45:14.010
come back, I want to ask a little bit about
773
00:45:14.050 --> 00:45:16.449
Dolph Ziggler. He seems to be a common topic with us,
774
00:45:16.489 --> 00:45:19.909
I think, Matt, and how he's coming along. We talk
775
00:45:19.949 --> 00:45:23.530
about Miz getting to the top and then dropping down
776
00:45:23.550 --> 00:45:25.269
and then trying to make a rebound. We'll talk about
777
00:45:25.289 --> 00:45:28.820
whether Dolph is experiencing that or still not after this break.
778
00:45:29.260 --> 00:45:30.860
We'll be right back after this word from our sponsors.
779
00:45:37.860 --> 00:45:40.039
It's next-level coverage that you come to expect from the
780
00:45:40.099 --> 00:45:45.280
PW Torch brand. No AI, no rookie perspectives, no unfounded rumors,
781
00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:49.960
no clickbait, no deceptive headlines, just high-quality writing, breaking news,
782
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:54.409
and fascinating flashbacks every day at pwtorch.com. Pull yourself away
783
00:45:54.510 --> 00:45:56.750
from the vacuous social media experience that I know many
784
00:45:56.769 --> 00:45:59.650
of you regret once you get lost in it for minutes,
785
00:45:59.710 --> 00:46:01.989
if not hours at a time, and settle in for
786
00:46:02.210 --> 00:46:07.269
high-quality PW Torch-branded wrestling coverage. All right, just like that,
787
00:46:07.329 --> 00:46:09.789
we are back. Matt McCarthy is my guest, ex-Creative Team
788
00:46:09.809 --> 00:46:13.409
member with WWE, stand-up comedian, and host of the We
789
00:46:13.489 --> 00:46:20.969
Watch Wrestling podcast. Matt Dolsigler, he got an opportunity at SummerSlam,
790
00:46:21.989 --> 00:46:25.610
and the storyline was he was a show-off, and he
791
00:46:25.659 --> 00:46:30.699
was more focused on This Is Awesome chants and Twitter
792
00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:35.000
followers and crowd pops and having good matches than he
793
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:38.849
was winning. And they got, I felt like it was like,
794
00:46:39.030 --> 00:46:41.949
if you build a bridge 70% of the way, it's
795
00:46:42.030 --> 00:46:43.849
as useless as if you didn't start building it in
796
00:46:43.869 --> 00:46:45.750
the first place. And I think in the end, they
797
00:46:45.769 --> 00:46:47.889
built that bridge 70% of the way, and then the
798
00:46:47.929 --> 00:46:51.190
actual match didn't follow up on that. The announcers didn't
799
00:46:51.230 --> 00:46:53.590
follow up on that. And now we're right back where
800
00:46:53.630 --> 00:46:57.679
we started with him, even after Tuesday's confrontation with Miz,
801
00:46:58.139 --> 00:47:02.340
with him yelling too much at the top of his lungs,
802
00:47:02.460 --> 00:47:07.730
just at a, just this hair trigger yelling. and whining
803
00:47:08.250 --> 00:47:11.030
and talking about not getting opportunities and all of that.
804
00:47:11.170 --> 00:47:15.070
I just, I want him to get to that next level, Matt,
805
00:47:15.130 --> 00:47:18.170
where I am, you know, like you're nodding along with
806
00:47:18.210 --> 00:47:20.429
Miz even though he's a heel when he's telling Daniel Bryan, hey,
807
00:47:20.630 --> 00:47:21.929
but I'm healthy and I'm going to be here 10
808
00:47:21.929 --> 00:47:24.250
more years and look at you. He said it slightly
809
00:47:24.309 --> 00:47:27.789
nicer than I just did. With Dolph, I'm like, I
810
00:47:27.829 --> 00:47:31.550
want to nod along and I want to go, yes,
811
00:47:31.610 --> 00:47:34.550
he finally gets it. But I just don't think he does,
812
00:47:34.590 --> 00:47:36.289
and I don't think he's getting the right advice. That's
813
00:47:36.329 --> 00:47:38.110
my take, but I'm curious if you see it differently.
814
00:47:40.380 --> 00:47:48.440
I don't know. I don't know. You know, because it's like... Well,
815
00:47:48.460 --> 00:47:51.599
first of all, the TV build for Dolph and Dean
816
00:47:51.860 --> 00:47:59.570
was outstanding. I think that, on a whole, and this
817
00:47:59.650 --> 00:48:02.469
is a totally different topic, but... I think on a whole,
818
00:48:02.789 --> 00:48:09.570
WWE is moving in a direction of more reality-based, blurring
819
00:48:09.610 --> 00:48:15.610
the lines. As we've seen with so many of the
820
00:48:15.650 --> 00:48:17.869
news stories coming out of that company over the last
821
00:48:18.110 --> 00:48:21.179
week and a half, what with the finish to the
822
00:48:21.219 --> 00:48:25.280
Lesnar-Orton match, the Daniel Bryan-Miz thing, I think the whole
823
00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:29.599
build for Dean and Dolph, I think it's all been
824
00:48:29.639 --> 00:48:35.760
very they're getting much, they're getting back in closer to
825
00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:38.800
that more reality thing and much more compelling and making
826
00:48:38.820 --> 00:48:41.719
the people question with all that gray area. Uh, but
827
00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:44.300
as far as Dolph goes, I, I didn't think he
828
00:48:44.340 --> 00:48:46.920
had a chance. You know, I don't think anybody in
829
00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:51.179
the audience thought he had a chance, um, made all
830
00:48:51.219 --> 00:48:55.849
the more, uh, apparent by the positioning of the title
831
00:48:55.889 --> 00:48:58.079
match on the card at SummerSlam. But again, that's a,
832
00:48:59.070 --> 00:49:03.829
a different topic as well. Um, Unfortunately, it's like Dolph
833
00:49:03.849 --> 00:49:05.920
was put in a position where it's like he had
834
00:49:05.960 --> 00:49:09.860
to win that title. You know? It was like, I just,
835
00:49:10.940 --> 00:49:14.090
I don't know. I worry that like Vince McMahon just,
836
00:49:14.449 --> 00:49:17.050
you know, when Dolph won, what did he win to
837
00:49:17.090 --> 00:49:20.150
earn that shot? Like a six-way or a five-way? or
838
00:49:20.170 --> 00:49:26.940
a four-way, whatever, a six-pack challenge, a scramble, whatever it is.
839
00:49:27.019 --> 00:49:30.380
A scramble, yeah.
840
00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:35.300
But it's like, my worry is that, I hope that
841
00:49:35.340 --> 00:49:37.579
Vince didn't think that, like, well, Dolph just winning that
842
00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:39.780
match was, well, he's back. You know, the people will
843
00:49:39.800 --> 00:49:45.010
believe in him again. because it'll take a lot more
844
00:49:45.050 --> 00:49:50.630
than that. I mean, Dolph should have been... They should
845
00:49:50.650 --> 00:49:53.690
have strapped the rocket to Dolph, I mean, five years ago.
846
00:49:54.510 --> 00:50:00.090
I mean, it's insane. And they just kept... Not just...
847
00:49:59.929 --> 00:50:02.880
Because he's another example. He's another one of those guys
848
00:50:03.739 --> 00:50:06.679
that the company missed the boat on, that the crowd
849
00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:09.940
was with him. He could have still been.
850
00:50:11.909 --> 00:50:14.449
That's the thing in pro wrestling is they make it
851
00:50:14.550 --> 00:50:18.469
so difficult to turn a heel we're all entertained by
852
00:50:18.659 --> 00:50:21.239
into a baby face we can still be entertained by.
853
00:50:21.260 --> 00:50:27.739
I feel like Roddy Piper was probably the best at
854
00:50:27.800 --> 00:50:30.559
it because he was always the same guy, whether he
855
00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:34.500
was a heel or a baby face. The WWF stuff,
856
00:50:35.179 --> 00:50:35.619
some of his.
857
00:50:37.570 --> 00:50:39.769
The sort of baby face Roddy, it was a little
858
00:50:39.949 --> 00:50:43.829
too jokey, but I think that's more Vince than it
859
00:50:43.909 --> 00:50:51.289
is Roddy. Um, but like something like Santino, it was like, God,
860
00:50:51.369 --> 00:50:55.809
like such an entertaining heel, hilarious. And they just kind
861
00:50:55.829 --> 00:50:57.409
of turn them into a baby face and just kind
862
00:50:57.429 --> 00:51:02.150
of made them, you know, don't the clown or whatever. Um, it's,
863
00:51:02.889 --> 00:51:05.769
Like CM Punk is a great example. Great example. Perfect
864
00:51:05.829 --> 00:51:07.469
example of somebody who's the same when he was a
865
00:51:07.489 --> 00:51:09.210
heel and a baby face and we still liked him.
866
00:51:10.510 --> 00:51:14.010
Dolph could have been that show-off. You know, he could
867
00:51:14.030 --> 00:51:17.110
have been that. I mean, there's a lot more than
868
00:51:17.150 --> 00:51:22.670
just the 80s nostalgia was just music and fashion. There
869
00:51:22.690 --> 00:51:25.650
was also attitude. You know, people liked that. Like, that's
870
00:51:25.670 --> 00:51:28.530
why Hulk Hogan was perfect for the 80s because he
871
00:51:28.570 --> 00:51:34.170
was unashamed of he was unashamed at being a winner.
872
00:51:34.269 --> 00:51:35.670
You know, that was that big thing in the eighties,
873
00:51:35.710 --> 00:51:39.889
be a win, win, win, you know, but like part
874
00:51:40.190 --> 00:51:42.730
of that appeal, I think I could see in Dolph
875
00:51:42.750 --> 00:51:46.090
Ziggler of like, this guy is great and he knows
876
00:51:46.159 --> 00:51:48.460
it and he doesn't care that he's showing it all.
877
00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:52.119
And we appreciate him for it because he's honest, you know, it's,
878
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:55.480
Really what it comes down to is the honesty. Whether
879
00:51:55.500 --> 00:51:58.019
it's Daniel Bryan or Stone Cold Steve Austin, what I
880
00:51:58.079 --> 00:52:00.260
love about this guy is he's telling me how he
881
00:52:00.340 --> 00:52:03.400
really feels, and I believe it, and I can relate
882
00:52:03.440 --> 00:52:07.320
because I feel the same way. I feel like I
883
00:52:07.340 --> 00:52:10.130
don't get any respect. I feel like I work harder
884
00:52:10.170 --> 00:52:14.469
than anybody else, and I want to see some results.
885
00:52:14.630 --> 00:52:17.429
And that is the character of Dolph Ziggler. And when
886
00:52:17.469 --> 00:52:21.179
they start building up Dolph and Dean, it started making
887
00:52:21.219 --> 00:52:23.920
me angry as a viewer and as a fan, as
888
00:52:23.980 --> 00:52:27.320
a huge fan of Dolph Ziggler. Because I'm like, he's
889
00:52:27.400 --> 00:52:32.579
not going to win it. You can't... That's what the
890
00:52:32.659 --> 00:52:35.969
work is supposed to be in building the match, is
891
00:52:36.090 --> 00:52:38.530
you want to see the match because you don't know
892
00:52:38.570 --> 00:52:41.969
what's going to happen. That's why you read the story,
893
00:52:42.030 --> 00:52:44.989
so you can find out, so you can see what
894
00:52:45.050 --> 00:52:47.920
the logical conclusion is going to be. And then it's like.
895
00:52:49.460 --> 00:52:54.440
You know, that's what frustrates me so much, especially with
896
00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:57.340
the handling of someone like Dolph Ziggler, because of the
897
00:52:57.360 --> 00:53:00.610
amount of talent. And then he just kind of gets
898
00:53:00.679 --> 00:53:04.309
put in a position of, well, Dolph will go out
899
00:53:04.329 --> 00:53:09.190
there and he'll bump around and, you know, that'll be
900
00:53:09.190 --> 00:53:09.989
11 minutes on the card.
901
00:53:10.230 --> 00:53:12.769
Part of what's missing in the story of Dolph is
902
00:53:12.989 --> 00:53:14.909
it's hard for somebody... It's like.
903
00:53:17.380 --> 00:53:20.920
If you're in week 15 of the NFL season, or
904
00:53:20.920 --> 00:53:22.610
16 because of the bye week, but there's a week
905
00:53:22.619 --> 00:53:27.750
left in the season, and a team is 3-12, and
906
00:53:27.769 --> 00:53:30.789
they go on ESPN, and they start bitching and moaning
907
00:53:30.969 --> 00:53:35.630
about how they're not getting any respect. It's like, you're 3-12.
908
00:53:36.309 --> 00:53:40.030
You're a loser. Start winning, and then you'll get respect.
909
00:53:40.530 --> 00:53:42.889
And the issue with Dolph and the way he's written
910
00:53:43.050 --> 00:53:46.510
is WWE is letting him down in the sense that
911
00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:49.900
The way for Dolph to make a case that will
912
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:54.460
resonate with viewers, the wide array of viewers, not just
913
00:53:54.500 --> 00:53:56.320
people who have a soft spot for him or like
914
00:53:56.340 --> 00:53:59.929
him because of a certain aspect, but the total audience,
915
00:54:00.449 --> 00:54:02.309
and to create what you're talking about, Matt, which is
916
00:54:02.369 --> 00:54:05.070
the belief he can win, is to lay the groundwork
917
00:54:05.130 --> 00:54:07.630
for six to 12 weeks ahead of time. Have him,
918
00:54:08.070 --> 00:54:12.369
in an unexpected circumstance, score an upset over somebody higher
919
00:54:12.409 --> 00:54:12.809
on the card.
920
00:54:13.869 --> 00:54:14.010
And.
921
00:54:14.409 --> 00:54:16.639
Talk about, oh, there's something going on here. And then
922
00:54:16.739 --> 00:54:20.139
next week, you interview him. And he says, yeah, I'm
923
00:54:20.159 --> 00:54:22.539
a little less concerned about showing off, believe it or not.
924
00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:25.800
I'm a little more concerned about getting in the title
925
00:54:25.820 --> 00:54:27.679
hunt again. And I think fans are going to see
926
00:54:27.719 --> 00:54:29.869
a different style in the ring. And then a week later,
927
00:54:29.909 --> 00:54:32.409
he wins another match. And then two weeks later, he's
928
00:54:32.449 --> 00:54:36.869
in that six-pack scramble. And he wins. And the announcers
929
00:54:36.889 --> 00:54:39.840
can say, Dolph's on a hot streak. And then Dolph
930
00:54:39.909 --> 00:54:42.300
can then go on the microphone and And instead of
931
00:54:42.360 --> 00:54:46.019
complaining about not being given opportunities, because guess what? He
932
00:54:46.059 --> 00:54:47.980
lost most of his matches. That's why he didn't get
933
00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:50.940
title shots. That's how it works, Dolph. That's the sports-like
934
00:54:50.980 --> 00:54:54.360
approach that I think undercuts his case. Losers don't get
935
00:54:54.400 --> 00:54:58.239
title shots. He's been a loser. So now he's a whiner.
936
00:54:59.179 --> 00:55:01.260
And I think a lot of the audience thought that way.
937
00:55:01.559 --> 00:55:04.400
But if he actually started winning his matches and wasn't
938
00:55:04.460 --> 00:55:07.929
getting title consideration... and he could point to that, that's fine.
939
00:55:08.050 --> 00:55:10.030
I'd rather have him drop the whole thing. If I
940
00:55:10.090 --> 00:55:11.690
never have to hear another wrestler again, and I know
941
00:55:11.730 --> 00:55:13.840
what you're saying, that some people relate to it. I
942
00:55:13.860 --> 00:55:16.119
think it's been so overdone. There should be a three-year
943
00:55:16.139 --> 00:55:21.019
moratorium on any wrestler complaining about being overlooked or not respected.
944
00:55:21.599 --> 00:55:23.139
I just don't think that's a key to getting over.
945
00:55:23.239 --> 00:55:24.940
I think people see it as, I think most people
946
00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:27.639
hear that and think, here's a whiny loser who doesn't
947
00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:30.159
own the fact that he doesn't win his matches. And
948
00:55:30.260 --> 00:55:33.670
so have WWE book these wrestlers where they get on
949
00:55:33.690 --> 00:55:36.059
a hot streak, And then instead of complaining about not
950
00:55:36.099 --> 00:55:38.000
getting a break, they can talk about how they've earned
951
00:55:38.079 --> 00:55:40.239
this opportunity and they're going to take advantage of it.
952
00:55:40.739 --> 00:55:42.070
That's kind of the UFC formula.
953
00:55:42.849 --> 00:55:43.250
And it works.
954
00:55:43.289 --> 00:55:45.389
Now, in UFC, there's some guys who win a lot,
955
00:55:45.409 --> 00:55:47.909
but they're boring. And they don't get a chance. It's
956
00:55:47.949 --> 00:55:50.909
sort of the opposite of Dolph's argument. Dolph is exciting,
957
00:55:50.949 --> 00:55:53.869
but loses. So he doesn't have a case to get
958
00:55:53.909 --> 00:55:55.840
title shots. He doesn't have a case that he's being overlooked.
959
00:55:56.070 --> 00:55:58.199
He gets lots of chances on TV, and he loses
960
00:55:58.239 --> 00:56:00.019
all the time. Or a lot of the time. So
961
00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:03.420
that's my frustration with Dolph, is that his character seems
962
00:56:03.480 --> 00:56:07.449
somewhat oblivious to to the fact... It's like if somebody
963
00:56:07.489 --> 00:56:10.389
running for office loses and they complain. It's like, no,
964
00:56:10.530 --> 00:56:12.690
we actually count votes, and that's how we determine who
965
00:56:12.710 --> 00:56:15.269
wins or loses. And Dolph doesn't seem to get that
966
00:56:15.309 --> 00:56:16.909
when your back is on the mat for one, two, three.
967
00:56:16.929 --> 00:56:19.639
The character. The character comes across as if he doesn't
968
00:56:19.659 --> 00:56:22.119
understand that you don't get a chance, you don't get
969
00:56:22.159 --> 00:56:24.860
title shots because of a this is awesome chant, or
970
00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:28.019
four-star ratings on the internet, or Twitter followers. You get
971
00:56:28.119 --> 00:56:30.340
chances within the narrative from winning.
972
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:31.920
Yeah.
973
00:56:32.260 --> 00:56:33.480
Yeah. Um.
974
00:56:35.429 --> 00:56:38.449
I mean, yeah. And that's what the problem was with it.
975
00:56:38.829 --> 00:56:42.630
I mean, that was inherently the problem with the way
976
00:56:42.690 --> 00:56:45.130
he earned the title shot. It's just like, okay, one
977
00:56:45.170 --> 00:56:48.030
match that he wins, and oh, there you go. He's
978
00:56:48.110 --> 00:56:49.820
officially reheated.
979
00:56:50.429 --> 00:56:54.400
Exactly. And granted, being put in a match with Dean
980
00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:57.360
for a title on SummerSlam, in and of itself is
981
00:56:57.380 --> 00:57:00.360
an elevation, but if you, like you touched on, if
982
00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:03.179
people don't really believe the table has been set for
983
00:57:03.219 --> 00:57:06.539
Dolph to win, you're undercutting Dolph and Dean end that match.
984
00:57:06.980 --> 00:57:09.340
Because fans see it as fourth from the top, fifth
985
00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:11.820
from the top, even though it's the WWE title match.
986
00:57:11.840 --> 00:57:14.630
There's other stuff on that that's clearly higher up. Universal title,
987
00:57:14.670 --> 00:57:17.969
Lesnar match, AJ Cena. I mean, at least three matches
988
00:57:18.030 --> 00:57:22.170
above it. You could argue the women's match, too. So,
989
00:57:22.309 --> 00:57:24.789
you know, I mean, it's just they sabotaged him going in.
990
00:57:24.829 --> 00:57:27.219
And then the match itself wasn't wrestled in a way
991
00:57:27.619 --> 00:57:31.079
that told that story. You know, I mean, I would
992
00:57:31.099 --> 00:57:32.840
have liked a moment in the match where Dolph had
993
00:57:32.860 --> 00:57:35.869
Dean down. And was about to go to the top
994
00:57:35.929 --> 00:57:38.639
rope to show off, and instead he stopped in his
995
00:57:38.679 --> 00:57:41.460
tracks and covered Dean and hooked his leg aggressively. And
996
00:57:41.480 --> 00:57:43.900
the announcer said, and we're scripted to, you know, point
997
00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:46.159
it out, that's Dolph. He was about to show off,
998
00:57:46.739 --> 00:57:49.039
but he thought better of it. He decided, I think
999
00:57:49.079 --> 00:57:50.619
I can pin Dean, and he went for the pin.
1000
00:57:50.900 --> 00:57:52.820
This is a new Dolph Ziggler. He's not looking to
1001
00:57:52.840 --> 00:57:55.480
the crowd for approval anymore. He's looking at the shoulders
1002
00:57:55.539 --> 00:57:57.039
on the mat, and he wants to get a pin.
1003
00:57:57.380 --> 00:57:59.360
This is a new Dolph. I like it. I think
1004
00:57:59.380 --> 00:58:01.039
he's going to become a winner. You know, that's the
1005
00:58:01.059 --> 00:58:02.869
story you tell, but they seem to forget about the whole,
1006
00:58:02.949 --> 00:58:04.769
I don't, if they even knew what the story was
1007
00:58:04.809 --> 00:58:06.869
that started by the time they got to SummerSlam, I
1008
00:58:06.889 --> 00:58:08.329
didn't see it in the way the match was executed.
1009
00:58:08.349 --> 00:58:09.760
Uh-uh.
1010
00:58:10.059 --> 00:58:11.920
No. Yeah. No.
1011
00:58:14.110 --> 00:58:16.190
Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti when he co-hosts with
1012
00:58:16.250 --> 00:58:17.989
me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, now you
1013
00:58:18.010 --> 00:58:20.289
can listen to him every week on the Nicky's Club,
1014
00:58:20.349 --> 00:58:23.389
a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more.
1015
00:58:23.510 --> 00:58:25.949
Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with
1016
00:58:25.969 --> 00:58:28.059
the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's
1017
00:58:28.119 --> 00:58:31.019
comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE.
1018
00:58:31.099 --> 00:58:34.019
From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered.
1019
00:58:34.179 --> 00:58:36.380
The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest
1020
00:58:36.400 --> 00:58:36.920
club in town.
1021
00:58:37.179 --> 00:58:38.980
Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling
1022
00:58:39.019 --> 00:58:43.340
life every week, so why not let him? GoVIP. PWTorch.com
1023
00:58:43.619 --> 00:58:46.539
slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible
1024
00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:49.889
with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other
1025
00:58:50.030 --> 00:58:52.030
iOS or Android app out there. You can also stream
1026
00:58:52.050 --> 00:58:55.050
directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club, waiting
1027
00:58:55.070 --> 00:58:59.769
for you every week at PWTorch VIP. All right, a
1028
00:58:59.789 --> 00:59:03.170
little thing. Did you see SmackDown Tuesday, Matt? Did you
1029
00:59:03.329 --> 00:59:06.550
watch the show? The trailer part?
1030
00:59:06.570 --> 00:59:06.750
Sure.
1031
00:59:07.969 --> 00:59:11.630
Did it bother you? Did it bother you like it
1032
00:59:11.670 --> 00:59:15.329
bothered me? We always talk about narrative construct of how
1033
00:59:15.349 --> 00:59:19.659
things are filmed and shot. The overhead shot of Rhino
1034
00:59:19.679 --> 00:59:21.739
drawing the smiley face with Cheez Whiz on the saltine.
1035
00:59:21.760 --> 00:59:24.519
I can't believe I just said that. And then they
1036
00:59:24.539 --> 00:59:26.400
go to the front shot of Rhino and there's no
1037
00:59:26.420 --> 00:59:31.289
camera over his shoulder. That drove me nuts. You They
1038
00:59:31.550 --> 00:59:34.010
filmed it like it was a sitcom.
1039
00:59:34.289 --> 00:59:34.530
Right.
1040
00:59:34.849 --> 00:59:37.750
But it was portrayed as a journalist with a camera
1041
00:59:37.789 --> 00:59:41.150
crew visiting somebody documentary style or, you know, news story style.
1042
00:59:41.570 --> 00:59:43.760
And that took me totally out of it. I thought, okay,
1043
00:59:43.780 --> 00:59:46.119
this– I mean, in my mind, I thought, oh, okay.
1044
00:59:46.280 --> 00:59:49.320
They went back and filmed later an overhead shot of Rhino.
1045
00:59:50.579 --> 00:59:52.659
You know, doing that, there's a better– you can choose
1046
00:59:52.679 --> 00:59:54.619
a different angle to do it where it seems believable
1047
00:59:54.659 --> 00:59:56.179
or wait a second before we go back to the
1048
00:59:56.219 --> 00:59:58.000
front shot of Rhino so you can imagine the camera moving.
1049
00:59:58.349 --> 01:00:00.630
But they totally took me out of it with that shot.
1050
01:00:00.809 --> 01:00:02.389
Did that bug you, or did that jump out to you?
1051
01:00:02.469 --> 01:00:04.170
I thought of you when I saw that.
1052
01:00:06.250 --> 01:00:15.460
Oh, I'm touched. Well, it's funny, because of all the shots,
1053
01:00:17.059 --> 01:00:20.820
that would have been my favorite one. Oh, no. The
1054
01:00:21.519 --> 01:00:25.900
cheese was brownie-faced on just that moment in and of itself.
1055
01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:27.489
But how it was filmed....
1056
01:00:28.780 --> 01:00:32.000
Because, well, yeah. No, I'll get to that. Because I
1057
01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:36.159
don't know if you know this. It is scientifically proven.
1058
01:00:37.039 --> 01:00:39.449
If you're eating a cheeseburger and when you're putting ketchup
1059
01:00:39.530 --> 01:00:42.889
on it, if you draw a smiley face on the patty,
1060
01:00:43.369 --> 01:00:44.150
it will taste better.
1061
01:00:46.449 --> 01:00:48.710
Is that scientifically proven? I believe that. I believe that.
1062
01:00:50.449 --> 01:00:57.019
They proved it with science. Wow. It is always weird to.
1063
01:00:58.730 --> 01:01:05.760
For me, watching WWE backstages, or I guess this was
1064
01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:10.019
a vignette, when they do punch in, like when Dolph's wife,
1065
01:01:10.760 --> 01:01:14.179
when Heath's wife was in the kitchen and she just
1066
01:01:14.199 --> 01:01:16.119
kind of, you know, she's like, honey, I picked up
1067
01:01:16.159 --> 01:01:18.969
a box or whatever. Like, they punch in on her.
1068
01:01:18.989 --> 01:01:23.030
It's always funny it is strange because it's not the
1069
01:01:23.050 --> 01:01:25.309
way that they do things because they always do present
1070
01:01:25.389 --> 01:01:28.170
everything as though it were live. And there's one camera,
1071
01:01:28.309 --> 01:01:31.730
one take, and it's always a continuous take. Yeah. Um,
1072
01:01:32.530 --> 01:01:36.030
and so when they plug in things like that, for me, it,
1073
01:01:36.210 --> 01:01:42.289
it just, it, it, it, it's unnatural because it, like
1074
01:01:42.329 --> 01:01:46.840
you said, it, it violates the, the rules that they've
1075
01:01:46.860 --> 01:01:52.349
established of what is happening and what I'm watching. Whereas
1076
01:01:52.769 --> 01:01:57.710
something like Lucha Underground, they have established this is cinematic.
1077
01:01:58.389 --> 01:02:00.650
We're not seeing through a camera's eye. We're seeing through
1078
01:02:00.690 --> 01:02:06.730
God's eyes. That's what that would be. And then as
1079
01:02:07.010 --> 01:02:10.769
someone who works in TV, when I see things like that,
1080
01:02:10.849 --> 01:02:13.909
all it says to me is, oh, they must have cut.
1081
01:02:13.969 --> 01:02:17.929
So they have to cover a cut. Maybe not necessarily that.
1082
01:02:18.559 --> 01:02:21.179
vignette because you know they were punching in they were
1083
01:02:21.199 --> 01:02:24.050
punching in but like especially when i watch like a
1084
01:02:24.130 --> 01:02:29.449
late night show during the monologue uh if they ever
1085
01:02:29.610 --> 01:02:33.289
suddenly just cut to the audience laughing or clapping yeah
1086
01:02:33.550 --> 01:02:37.199
you're like oh they cut out the next joke you
1087
01:02:37.820 --> 01:02:41.679
know they would you can you can see things like.
1088
01:02:41.559 --> 01:02:43.800
That tna would do that with their entering promos a
1089
01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:45.239
lot i don't know i don't know if i've noticed
1090
01:02:45.280 --> 01:02:48.239
this year but There were a lot of awkward cuts
1091
01:02:48.400 --> 01:02:49.800
when they would do... Because, you know, they film all
1092
01:02:49.820 --> 01:02:51.670
their TV all in one night, and it's just kind
1093
01:02:51.690 --> 01:02:53.789
of loosely timed, and then they go and produce the show,
1094
01:02:53.809 --> 01:02:54.929
and they're like, oh, we've got to take out, and
1095
01:02:54.969 --> 01:03:02.679
that didn't go well, or this went long, and, you know, yeah. Yeah.
1096
01:03:02.820 --> 01:03:08.440
As a professional comedian, you are the authority on all
1097
01:03:08.480 --> 01:03:14.619
things funny. Did you like what they did In that skit,
1098
01:03:14.699 --> 01:03:17.869
did you laugh more than you groaned? Did you only groan,
1099
01:03:17.969 --> 01:03:21.150
only laugh? Did you think that if you were part
1100
01:03:21.190 --> 01:03:23.150
of that and had great authority, would you have done
1101
01:03:23.170 --> 01:03:26.250
it differently or advised against it or added some stuff?
1102
01:03:26.269 --> 01:03:27.769
What was your thought watching that?
1103
01:03:29.869 --> 01:03:32.590
Oh, God, no. I love stuff like that. I live
1104
01:03:32.889 --> 01:03:39.530
for seeing vignettes of wrestlers outside of the ring in
1105
01:03:39.590 --> 01:03:50.099
their worlds. I love that stuff. Yeah, of course. He
1106
01:03:50.119 --> 01:03:54.659
lives in a trailer park. That's perfect. He's got this
1107
01:03:54.900 --> 01:03:59.059
kind of kooky, heavyset wife who's just crazy about him.
1108
01:03:59.099 --> 01:04:03.590
I think that's great. She just serves cold weenies and
1109
01:04:04.130 --> 01:04:08.250
cheese crackers. That's perfect. I cannot wait to meet the kids.
1110
01:04:08.469 --> 01:04:15.469
I cannot wait to to meet Heath Slater's children. But
1111
01:04:15.489 --> 01:04:17.590
I mean, you know what it reminded me of, and
1112
01:04:17.630 --> 01:04:19.969
it's one of my favorite things of all time, is
1113
01:04:19.969 --> 01:04:24.730
30 years ago, we got to visit Dr. D. David
1114
01:04:24.769 --> 01:04:27.630
Schultz in his home and meet his wife and stuff
1115
01:04:29.699 --> 01:04:33.239
on Tuesday Night Titans, which I just love that stuff.
1116
01:04:33.300 --> 01:04:35.719
I live for seeing.
1117
01:04:37.519 --> 01:04:37.920
Vignettes.
1118
01:04:38.789 --> 01:04:41.409
So, I mean, in that respect, I absolutely love it.
1119
01:04:41.449 --> 01:04:44.869
And I laughed throughout the whole thing. I think Heath
1120
01:04:46.679 --> 01:04:48.440
is another one of those guys where it's like, and
1121
01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:51.599
thank God that the company's noticed it and they're going
1122
01:04:51.639 --> 01:04:57.139
with it. Because the whole angle of Heath, it's probably
1123
01:04:57.179 --> 01:05:01.449
my favorite storyline on the show right now. The free
1124
01:05:01.510 --> 01:05:06.989
agent thing. It kind of does combine different elements of
1125
01:05:07.190 --> 01:05:09.929
my favorite stuff, uh, from years ago, like when, uh,
1126
01:05:11.699 --> 01:05:15.139
Randy Savage was like the, the number one free agent
1127
01:05:15.199 --> 01:05:19.679
and all the managers were, were vying for his attention. Uh,
1128
01:05:19.780 --> 01:05:21.739
so I love that. I love Heath is the free agent,
1129
01:05:21.780 --> 01:05:28.750
but he's also, you know, he's, he's like this, this
1130
01:05:28.889 --> 01:05:33.679
loser who keeps, you know, um, stumbling into good fortune
1131
01:05:33.699 --> 01:05:36.780
type of thing, but he can't help but get in
1132
01:05:36.820 --> 01:05:40.610
his own way. You know, like, I love the part of,
1133
01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:43.639
you know, he beat Randy in a match, but he was,
1134
01:05:44.659 --> 01:05:48.780
you know, by DQ because Randy was beating the crap
1135
01:05:48.860 --> 01:05:52.239
out of him. And then he can't even get his
1136
01:05:52.260 --> 01:05:55.449
head straight to sign the contract, and Shane's like, oh, okay,
1137
01:05:55.489 --> 01:05:58.489
let's forget about this. I mean, it's just... I think
1138
01:05:58.530 --> 01:06:02.030
it's great. I can't see... You know, hopefully... him and
1139
01:06:02.070 --> 01:06:06.809
Rhino that could work it's a great even Rhino in
1140
01:06:06.849 --> 01:06:12.719
that vignette I was like I love this type of
1141
01:06:12.860 --> 01:06:17.440
you know he's he's a monster he's he's but he's
1142
01:06:18.760 --> 01:06:26.070
got like a childlike sense of fun to him like
1143
01:06:26.429 --> 01:06:29.030
just drawing the faces on the crackers like of course
1144
01:06:29.050 --> 01:06:31.719
that's how Rhino eats his cheese and crackers having a
1145
01:06:31.800 --> 01:06:35.260
great time just shallowing down. He must've eaten 50 saltines.
1146
01:06:35.420 --> 01:06:40.280
I mean, it was the best, you know, absolutely.
1147
01:06:43.650 --> 01:06:46.650
Uh, throw to you, uh, Matt on a, uh, a
1148
01:06:46.710 --> 01:06:51.570
memory of Mr. Fuji, Harry Fujiwara. Um, he was, uh, in,
1149
01:06:51.630 --> 01:06:55.840
in his, he, I mean, the, the, the Fuji vice segments,
1150
01:06:55.860 --> 01:06:58.539
people seem to have a, a strange fondness for, um,
1151
01:07:00.719 --> 01:07:03.050
I think the critical aspect of how he was portrayed
1152
01:07:03.110 --> 01:07:08.250
is it was about as stereotypical and one-dimensional as a
1153
01:07:08.369 --> 01:07:12.369
wrestling character could get. And I know that was something
1154
01:07:12.389 --> 01:07:14.050
that Torch has been pretty critical of over the years.
1155
01:07:14.469 --> 01:07:17.750
I don't think he was something that, the way he
1156
01:07:17.789 --> 01:07:20.389
was portrayed was not, I would say, a high cultural
1157
01:07:20.429 --> 01:07:22.070
moment for WWE over the decades.
1158
01:07:23.929 --> 01:07:24.349
No.
1159
01:07:24.670 --> 01:07:31.099
I mean, it's kind of strange to think, but I mean, God,
1160
01:07:31.199 --> 01:07:37.119
like 1985, you're only, what, 40 years removed from World
1161
01:07:37.139 --> 01:07:37.699
War II?
1162
01:07:38.099 --> 01:07:39.039
Yeah.
1163
01:07:40.139 --> 01:07:48.519
You know, so you still have that mentality. I don't know.
1164
01:07:49.219 --> 01:07:49.460
Mr.
1165
01:07:49.480 --> 01:07:56.000
Fuji, I always really enjoyed. Even, you know, when I
1166
01:07:56.019 --> 01:07:56.860
was very small.
1167
01:07:59.449 --> 01:08:02.510
Like, I remember probably one of the highlights for me
1168
01:08:03.849 --> 01:08:10.880
was the Saturday night's main event from Halloween. And one
1169
01:08:10.900 --> 01:08:14.699
of the matches was, I think it was promoted as
1170
01:08:14.760 --> 01:08:18.239
the Kung Fu Challenge, but it was Ricky the Dragon
1171
01:08:18.279 --> 01:08:19.399
Steamboat versus Mr.
1172
01:08:19.439 --> 01:08:19.859
Fuji.
1173
01:08:19.960 --> 01:08:23.460
And it was like, I just remember there being a
1174
01:08:23.539 --> 01:08:26.869
buzz in our house and in my neighborhood. where it
1175
01:08:26.930 --> 01:08:30.069
was like, Mr. Fuji's getting back in the ring.
1176
01:08:30.350 --> 01:08:30.689
You know?
1177
01:08:31.930 --> 01:08:35.210
Because there was always older fans. Because I was on
1178
01:08:35.229 --> 01:08:38.069
the younger end of the kids in the neighborhood, and, like,
1179
01:08:38.130 --> 01:08:40.050
I had an older brother, and everybody kind of had
1180
01:08:40.090 --> 01:08:44.720
older siblings and cousins. They remembered, you know, when Mr.
1181
01:08:44.760 --> 01:08:47.079
Fuji was just an active wrestler all the time. And
1182
01:08:47.119 --> 01:08:55.100
then the Don Morocco stuff on TNT. It's just... Yeah, it's...
1183
01:08:57.119 --> 01:09:02.500
It is unfortunate that his character was a stereotype, but
1184
01:09:02.859 --> 01:09:06.979
that is more of a reflection on where we were
1185
01:09:07.039 --> 01:09:09.100
as a country and as a society.
1186
01:09:10.539 --> 01:09:13.180
We've never relied on WWE to be the ones who
1187
01:09:13.399 --> 01:09:17.100
are first to break cultural stereotypes and demeaning stereotypes.
1188
01:09:17.550 --> 01:09:18.359
Definitely not.
1189
01:09:18.930 --> 01:09:22.369
Bruce Mitchell wrote about Mr. Fuji this week in a
1190
01:09:22.430 --> 01:09:25.930
multifaceted column that could have been, a sub-headline could have been,
1191
01:09:26.210 --> 01:09:31.149
too soon, but nevertheless, in assessing Mr. Fuji's contributions to
1192
01:09:31.170 --> 01:09:34.949
the wrestling industry. Let's get in another call here. Oh,
1193
01:09:34.970 --> 01:09:36.409
go ahead, Matt, yeah.
1194
01:09:36.439 --> 01:09:38.569
Yeah, I mean, all I was going to say, though,
1195
01:09:38.689 --> 01:09:42.720
is of Mr. Fuji, I remember once when I was
1196
01:09:42.760 --> 01:09:47.760
working at WWE, Kevin Eck asked me, who my favorite
1197
01:09:47.960 --> 01:09:51.079
manager was. And I go, Oh, Mr.
1198
01:09:51.100 --> 01:09:51.439
Fuji.
1199
01:09:51.500 --> 01:09:54.920
And he's like, what? Not Bobby the Brain. I'm like, well,
1200
01:09:54.979 --> 01:09:56.220
of course I love Bobby the Brain.
1201
01:09:56.239 --> 01:09:56.859
He was a force.
1202
01:09:56.939 --> 01:09:59.100
But I'm like, I always loved Mr.
1203
01:09:59.239 --> 01:09:59.760
Fuji.
1204
01:10:00.119 --> 01:10:02.310
And he's like, why? He didn't do anything.
1205
01:10:02.550 --> 01:10:06.229
And I'm like, yeah, that's what was so amazing about him.
1206
01:10:06.789 --> 01:10:09.949
He would just stand there and people hated him. And
1207
01:10:09.970 --> 01:10:11.510
then of course he would, you know, trip the guy
1208
01:10:11.550 --> 01:10:13.770
with the cane or he'd have the salt or the whatever.
1209
01:10:13.890 --> 01:10:17.270
But I'm like, it just, there was something, he was
1210
01:10:17.310 --> 01:10:22.510
just always smiling and laughing, and it's like, that, that's
1211
01:10:22.789 --> 01:10:26.039
what a heel is, you know, someone who is just,
1212
01:10:27.260 --> 01:10:28.739
in a certain respect, you know, a.
1213
01:10:28.739 --> 01:10:29.539
Certain type of heel.
1214
01:10:30.279 --> 01:10:33.100
Matt, great having you on, really, really appreciate your time,
1215
01:10:33.220 --> 01:10:35.659
always fun, just kind of kicking back and trying to
1216
01:10:35.880 --> 01:10:37.699
make sense of what the heck is going on in wrestling,
1217
01:10:37.739 --> 01:10:40.949
and what we're looking forward to, and, man, I mean,
1218
01:10:41.329 --> 01:10:43.149
as has happened in the past, the time flies by
1219
01:10:43.170 --> 01:10:45.060
when we do these shows, so, Thank you so much
1220
01:10:45.220 --> 01:10:51.680
for being on. Oh, plug your damn podcast. You haven't
1221
01:10:51.960 --> 01:10:53.579
given a hard sell to that yet, and you need
1222
01:10:53.619 --> 01:10:54.899
to do that before you go if you have time.
1223
01:10:55.399 --> 01:10:58.420
It's the We Watch Wrestling Podcast. We have new episodes
1224
01:10:58.500 --> 01:11:03.100
every single Wednesday at 3.16 a.m. You can go to wewatchwrestlingpodcast.com
1225
01:11:03.159 --> 01:11:07.069
or headgum.com. Check it out. Thank you, Wade.
1226
01:11:07.310 --> 01:11:08.699
Absolutely. Thanks, Matt. Really appreciate it.
1227
01:11:08.729 --> 01:11:09.010
Take care.
1228
01:11:09.649 --> 01:11:11.930
All right, that'll do it for me for today. Thank you, everybody,
1229
01:11:12.029 --> 01:11:16.949
for joining us here on the PWTorch Livecast. Always, always
1230
01:11:16.989 --> 01:11:20.560
enjoy Matt McCarthy and just kind of shooting the breeze
1231
01:11:20.619 --> 01:11:23.500
about what's going on in professional wrestling. Check out Bruce
1232
01:11:23.560 --> 01:11:29.859
Mitchell and Travis Bryan tomorrow with the primetime Friday PWTorch Livecast.
1233
01:11:30.479 --> 01:11:34.529
Travis and Bruce back together again after a few weeks apart.
1234
01:11:35.170 --> 01:11:37.489
Should be a good show. Certainly no shortage of things
1235
01:11:37.510 --> 01:11:39.819
to talk about. And we'll talk to you next time.
1236
01:11:39.859 --> 01:11:51.229
Thanks everybody. Did you know that you can enjoy commercial
1237
01:11:51.289 --> 01:11:54.069
free versions of all of your favorite Wade Keller podcasts
1238
01:11:54.109 --> 01:11:58.229
and PW torch daily casts on Spotify? Just go to patreon.com
1239
01:11:58.310 --> 01:12:02.420
search PW torch and subscribe to a VIP membership tier.
1240
01:12:02.439 --> 01:12:04.060
You get a seven day free trial, by the way,
1241
01:12:04.359 --> 01:12:05.699
to kick the tires a bit and see if you
1242
01:12:05.739 --> 01:12:08.409
like the service. And then sync it with Spotify, and
1243
01:12:08.430 --> 01:12:11.149
you can listen to commercial-free versions of our free shows,
1244
01:12:11.189 --> 01:12:13.659
like the Wade Keller Post Shows, the Wade Keller Podcast Flagship,
1245
01:12:14.020 --> 01:12:17.060
our Flashbacks, and also the PWTorch Daily Cast lineup. Again,
1246
01:12:17.319 --> 01:12:21.060
all commercial-free, a nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership,
1247
01:12:21.079 --> 01:12:24.479
you can also unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything
1248
01:12:24.500 --> 01:12:26.199
with Rich and Wade, The Fix with Todd Martin that
1249
01:12:26.239 --> 01:12:28.979
I host with Todd every week, the Wade Keller News Bulletin,
1250
01:12:29.119 --> 01:12:33.770
Post Pay-Per-View Roundtables, and an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts
1251
01:12:33.789 --> 01:12:36.789
with different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup.
1252
01:12:37.189 --> 01:12:41.609
Go to Patreon and search PWTorch and subscribe and sync
1253
01:12:41.630 --> 01:12:44.430
it up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem.
1254
01:12:44.850 --> 01:12:48.180
Either way works. Go to Patreon and start your seven-day
1255
01:12:48.260 --> 01:12:48.739
free trial.
1256
01:13:04.479 --> 01:13:08.380
It's the podcast version of getting salt thrown in your eyes.
1257
01:13:09.359 --> 01:13:12.619
Live on the shores of Lake Washington, or as close
1258
01:13:12.680 --> 01:13:15.479
as I can afford in my tax bracket. It's Saturday
1259
01:13:15.510 --> 01:13:18.689
Morning Wrestling with Jim Vallee, and thank you for joining us.
1260
01:13:19.729 --> 01:13:23.310
It's the podcast that celebrates your white trash and mine.
1261
01:13:23.350 --> 01:13:26.109
And remember, you don't have to be white to be
1262
01:13:26.170 --> 01:13:30.329
white trash. Instead of studying philosophy, instead of finding a
1263
01:13:30.350 --> 01:13:34.170
cure for cancer or world hunger, no... Each and every
1264
01:13:34.229 --> 01:13:36.770
Saturday morning, we were in front of the TV watching
1265
01:13:37.050 --> 01:13:43.029
WWE Mania or Superstars or Worldwide, watching 605, Saturday night's
1266
01:13:43.109 --> 01:13:47.069
main event, or Heroes of World Class. Yes, indeed, all
1267
01:13:47.109 --> 01:13:50.420
the time that we wasted watching that lovely white trash
1268
01:13:50.439 --> 01:13:53.600
soap opera that you and I call Professional Wrestling. And
1269
01:13:53.640 --> 01:13:56.399
we have got a show for you today. Coming up
1270
01:13:56.460 --> 01:13:58.739
in just a little bit, we have got an announcement
1271
01:13:58.779 --> 01:14:03.159
of a guest that I am honestly entirely too excited about.
1272
01:14:03.569 --> 01:14:05.560
that they are coming on the show. I see it
1273
01:14:05.659 --> 01:14:08.859
as a very big guest and a very fun get,
1274
01:14:09.560 --> 01:14:11.880
and we'll talk about it in a little bit. And
1275
01:14:11.920 --> 01:14:14.899
I hope you're as excited as I am because it's
1276
01:14:14.960 --> 01:14:18.600
going to be amazing. So we'll talk about that coming
1277
01:14:18.659 --> 01:14:20.880
up in just a few minutes. I am going to
1278
01:14:20.899 --> 01:14:23.119
be gone the next couple of weeks. Pat McNeil is
1279
01:14:23.159 --> 01:14:27.260
going to be here. But when I come back on
1280
01:14:27.279 --> 01:14:32.699
the 24th of this month, It's going to be very
1281
01:14:32.739 --> 01:14:34.760
exciting because we are going to have the one and
1282
01:14:34.840 --> 01:14:38.039
only Bruce Pritchard on the show. But that's not the
1283
01:14:38.060 --> 01:14:41.899
big surprise guest. The big surprise guest is going to
1284
01:14:41.930 --> 01:14:43.550
be on October 1st, and I'll tell you about that
1285
01:14:43.569 --> 01:14:46.689
in just a few minutes. But Bruce Pritchard on the 24th,
1286
01:14:46.710 --> 01:14:49.949
of course, you know him from Brother Love, also Vince
1287
01:14:49.970 --> 01:14:54.449
McMahon's right-hand man for decades in the WWE. And he
1288
01:14:54.510 --> 01:14:56.069
and I have a bit of a connection, and we'll
1289
01:14:56.109 --> 01:14:59.180
talk about that on the 24th. where we talk about
1290
01:14:59.899 --> 01:15:03.739
we met for the first time and only time in Tacoma, Washington,
1291
01:15:03.779 --> 01:15:08.319
on that fateful night that Raw had the WCW main event.
1292
01:15:08.680 --> 01:15:10.979
And we'll talk about that, and I'll get his thoughts
1293
01:15:11.079 --> 01:15:13.199
on that. It should be a lot of fun, but
1294
01:15:13.239 --> 01:15:16.380
we look forward to having Bruce Prichard on the show
1295
01:15:16.460 --> 01:15:20.760
in just a few weeks here on Saturday morning. But
1296
01:15:20.800 --> 01:15:23.420
we have got a show here today coming up in
1297
01:15:23.460 --> 01:15:25.970
a few minutes. We're going to have my pal... from
1298
01:15:26.090 --> 01:15:30.149
NWA Fan Fest, the lovely Jeannie Clark on the show,
1299
01:15:30.369 --> 01:15:35.170
Lady Blossom from WCW. She, of course, connected to Stone
1300
01:15:35.210 --> 01:15:38.710
Cold Steve Austin, the ex-wife of Steve Austin, the mother
1301
01:15:38.789 --> 01:15:43.609
of his children. We'll talk to her live from Essex, England, hopefully,
1302
01:15:43.750 --> 01:15:47.250
fingers crossed, that it will all work out, I hope.
1303
01:15:47.609 --> 01:15:50.470
We'll see what happens. Otherwise, you better call in with
1304
01:15:50.489 --> 01:15:52.630
some stuff, because I'm going to need some time to fill,
1305
01:15:52.649 --> 01:15:54.210
because God knows, I don't know if I could do
1306
01:15:54.210 --> 01:15:58.090
90 minutes on my own. I need the help. Not
1307
01:15:58.109 --> 01:16:01.149
going to lie. I need the help. But you can
1308
01:16:01.210 --> 01:16:03.229
call in and help a brother out at 515-605-9345. 515-605-9345.
1309
01:16:03.229 --> 01:16:05.510
That's the new number here on the live cast, the
1310
01:16:05.550 --> 01:16:08.210
PW Torch live cast for some freaking reason. I have
1311
01:16:08.229 --> 01:16:22.090
no idea why, but there you go. So we'll have
1312
01:16:22.109 --> 01:16:24.670
Jeannie Clark. She'll come on. We'll talk. She was actually
1313
01:16:24.829 --> 01:16:29.289
in Portland for a while. So I knew her from Portland.
1314
01:16:30.229 --> 01:16:35.500
She was also married to a Portland wrestling legend. Did
1315
01:16:35.539 --> 01:16:40.640
he count as a legend? Is Billy Jack a legend? Oh, okay.
1316
01:16:40.659 --> 01:16:43.260
He's a legend in the criminal justice system. But yes,
1317
01:16:43.920 --> 01:16:47.680
Billy Jack Haynes. She was married to Billy Jack for
1318
01:16:47.720 --> 01:16:51.039
a while. Again, she came to Portland. She was involved
1319
01:16:51.060 --> 01:16:54.630
in the world of sport. You know her from Texas wrestling,
1320
01:16:54.810 --> 01:17:00.189
from USWA World Class, and of course in WCW. And
1321
01:17:00.350 --> 01:17:04.029
she's probably her biggest contribution, as you've probably heard the story,
1322
01:17:04.069 --> 01:17:06.050
but we'll talk about it. She was the one who
1323
01:17:06.090 --> 01:17:08.689
came up with the Stone Cold nickname, and we'll talk
1324
01:17:08.729 --> 01:17:11.819
about that and much more. But she and I bonded
1325
01:17:11.840 --> 01:17:17.380
at the NWA Legends Fan Fest, where I was sleeping.
1326
01:17:19.020 --> 01:17:21.640
um after a night out with brit whitmire we were
1327
01:17:21.720 --> 01:17:25.960
out um at some homeless shelters and soup kitchens taking
1328
01:17:26.000 --> 01:17:27.640
care of the homeless and you know it was just
1329
01:17:27.680 --> 01:17:31.859
such a long night of charity was that her name
1330
01:17:31.899 --> 01:17:36.010
charity i think that was her name but anyway uh
1331
01:17:36.050 --> 01:17:38.970
we were out with uh and i had thought to
1332
01:17:39.010 --> 01:17:40.470
myself you know i don't know we'll see if i
1333
01:17:40.510 --> 01:17:42.510
can make it if i make it great if not
1334
01:17:42.789 --> 01:17:46.689
no big deal then i get a text from Greg Price,
1335
01:17:46.729 --> 01:17:49.340
the promoter of NWA Legends Fan Fest, asking me if
1336
01:17:49.399 --> 01:17:51.359
I wanted to host the Q & A. And he
1337
01:17:51.380 --> 01:17:53.119
was like, oh, we need you down here in like
1338
01:17:53.119 --> 01:17:54.140
20 minutes. And I'm like, well, I've got to get
1339
01:17:54.159 --> 01:17:57.340
in the shower. I've got to clean the stank off me.
1340
01:17:58.199 --> 01:18:00.279
But it was a lovely time. She was a nice woman.
1341
01:18:00.819 --> 01:18:03.300
And she hadn't been in the United States in 15 years.
1342
01:18:03.340 --> 01:18:06.529
So she was, understandably, never done a Fan Fest, never
1343
01:18:06.550 --> 01:18:09.350
done a Q & A. She was very nervous. And
1344
01:18:09.449 --> 01:18:13.029
she did great. And so we'll talk about the NWA
1345
01:18:13.069 --> 01:18:15.510
Fan Fest and all the stuff that's going on in
1346
01:18:15.550 --> 01:18:18.810
the world of Lady Blossom, Jeannie Clark, in a little
1347
01:18:18.850 --> 01:18:22.949
bit here on the live cast. But coming up, we
1348
01:18:22.970 --> 01:18:25.350
want to talk about some anniversaries this week, some major
1349
01:18:26.170 --> 01:18:29.270
anniversaries this week in the world of wrestling. We'll talk
1350
01:18:29.310 --> 01:18:32.369
about that and more coming up in just a bit here.
1351
01:18:32.729 --> 01:18:41.489
It's Saturday morning wrestling. It's Jim Vallee. It's PWTorchLivecast.com. Thank
1352
01:18:41.510 --> 01:18:44.260
you for joining me. It's Jim Valley on the PWGeorge
1353
01:18:44.300 --> 01:18:47.949
Livecast Saturday Morning Wrestling where we wallow in our wrestling
1354
01:18:48.029 --> 01:18:52.689
fandom of the day's by when you were younger, prettier, thinner,
1355
01:18:52.760 --> 01:18:55.289
and had fewer cares in the world. And let's face it.
1356
01:18:55.319 --> 01:18:58.819
Wrestling was better. And it was still real to you.
1357
01:18:58.859 --> 01:19:02.380
Damn it. Of course, a lot of people in wrestling
1358
01:19:02.420 --> 01:19:07.640
this week talking about the passing of Mr. Fuji, Harry Fujiwara.
1359
01:19:08.079 --> 01:19:09.399
I am.
1360
01:19:09.460 --> 01:19:09.680
Yeah.
1361
01:19:10.770 --> 01:19:12.869
I mean, the guy lived to be 82 years old
1362
01:19:12.949 --> 01:19:15.829
and he was a legend in wrestling. And I take
1363
01:19:15.909 --> 01:19:18.710
nothing away from what the guy accomplished and what he
1364
01:19:18.729 --> 01:19:21.939
meant to the business. There's no question about it. One
1365
01:19:21.979 --> 01:19:24.180
of the themes of this show that we talk about
1366
01:19:24.199 --> 01:19:28.840
are the characters in wrestling, about the crazy characters. And
1367
01:19:29.180 --> 01:19:31.819
I think that's one of the appeals to me of
1368
01:19:31.899 --> 01:19:36.550
professional wrestling is that back when I was growing up
1369
01:19:36.609 --> 01:19:39.270
in the 70s and 80s, You know, there was Muhammad
1370
01:19:39.340 --> 01:19:43.140
Ali who would cut promos and things, but most athletes
1371
01:19:43.619 --> 01:19:47.840
back then would give, you know, interviews about God and
1372
01:19:47.920 --> 01:19:50.699
country and their mom and, you know, we're going to
1373
01:19:50.720 --> 01:19:52.350
win and we're going to do the best we can.
1374
01:19:52.390 --> 01:19:56.430
And they were very humble and, to be honest, very boring.
1375
01:19:57.710 --> 01:20:00.069
And maybe that's why sports didn't appeal to me as
1376
01:20:00.109 --> 01:20:04.250
a kid because the interviews were so boring. And, of course, now, today,
1377
01:20:04.369 --> 01:20:08.090
athletes have learned that that they can get big shoe
1378
01:20:08.109 --> 01:20:12.289
deals and TV deals and announcing gigs and stuff if
1379
01:20:12.329 --> 01:20:15.250
they are more verbose. I mean, UFC is built on that.
1380
01:20:16.590 --> 01:20:18.569
And I wonder sometimes if maybe I'd be a bigger
1381
01:20:18.649 --> 01:20:22.920
fan of sports, real sports, you know what I'm talking about, competitions,
1382
01:20:23.640 --> 01:20:27.279
where if the interviews are more like they are today,
1383
01:20:27.340 --> 01:20:32.560
where there's more athletes talking smack and getting personalities across
1384
01:20:32.640 --> 01:20:35.119
and things like that, I wonder about that sometimes. But
1385
01:20:35.140 --> 01:20:37.199
that's why I think it's one of the things why
1386
01:20:37.260 --> 01:20:40.909
I love wrestling because I'm really boring. I'm very polite.
1387
01:20:41.170 --> 01:20:43.630
I'm very reserved, by and large, when I'm not on
1388
01:20:43.670 --> 01:20:48.789
the air. And I try to be very polite and
1389
01:20:48.829 --> 01:20:51.710
very honest in things in my life. And maybe that's
1390
01:20:51.750 --> 01:20:54.039
the appeal of professional wrestling is you have all of
1391
01:20:54.100 --> 01:20:58.899
these crazy characters. that came from carnivals and came from
1392
01:20:59.859 --> 01:21:05.060
just doing nutty, wacky stuff. You know, people like Don
1393
01:21:05.159 --> 01:21:06.500
Fargo and Mr.
1394
01:21:06.560 --> 01:21:06.960
Fuji.
1395
01:21:09.359 --> 01:21:09.619
Mr.
1396
01:21:09.659 --> 01:21:12.840
Fuji, as you probably know, if you didn't know before
1397
01:21:12.899 --> 01:21:17.600
his death, was not actually Japanese. He was Hawaiian. And
1398
01:21:17.649 --> 01:21:20.390
this was a very common thing. I mean, a theme
1399
01:21:20.449 --> 01:21:28.420
in professional wrestling for years. was patriotism and nationalism. And
1400
01:21:28.460 --> 01:21:30.260
that's really kind of something that's kind of gone by
1401
01:21:30.300 --> 01:21:34.220
the wayside, maybe around the early 90s, with the Iraqi
1402
01:21:34.279 --> 01:21:37.119
thing with Sergeant Slaughter, it just got too real for people.
1403
01:21:37.579 --> 01:21:40.659
And even they tried, you know, something that was, you know,
1404
01:21:40.680 --> 01:21:45.880
with Ludwig Borga, you may remember, Tony Holm, in the
1405
01:21:45.920 --> 01:21:49.260
early 90s with Lex Luger, where they tried a Scandinavian country.
1406
01:21:51.500 --> 01:21:53.720
And that didn't really work. But, you know, Mr. Fuji
1407
01:21:53.819 --> 01:21:57.460
and And in the Northwest, he wrestled with Haru Sasaki
1408
01:21:58.850 --> 01:22:03.310
and Mr. Saito and Toru Tanaka. You know, those stereotypical
1409
01:22:03.390 --> 01:22:07.270
Japanese stars that came out of World War II. And
1410
01:22:07.289 --> 01:22:09.489
there was also the Germans. We talked about Baron von
1411
01:22:09.569 --> 01:22:13.369
Raschke last week. You know, and Kurt von, Kurt and
1412
01:22:13.409 --> 01:22:17.909
Karl von Steiger, the von Brauners, a Hans Schmidt, another
1413
01:22:17.970 --> 01:22:23.319
World War II stereotyped. For years, that was the theme.
1414
01:22:23.399 --> 01:22:27.569
Japanese wrestling was based on Ricky Dozan after World War
1415
01:22:27.750 --> 01:22:31.489
II and the Sharp Brothers pretending to be Americans coming
1416
01:22:31.609 --> 01:22:35.949
in and the Japanese getting their quote-unquote revenge or showing
1417
01:22:35.989 --> 01:22:39.489
that they were superior to Americans after World War II
1418
01:22:39.529 --> 01:22:43.100
and the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima in the world
1419
01:22:43.140 --> 01:22:47.649
of professional wrestling. Even in Mexico, you had people playing
1420
01:22:47.670 --> 01:22:50.350
the ugly Americans in Mexico. I mean, Art Barr and
1421
01:22:50.369 --> 01:22:55.859
Eddie Guerrero played the ugly Americans down in Mexico. It's
1422
01:22:55.920 --> 01:22:59.359
funny how Eddie Guerrero, who was born in El Paso
1423
01:22:59.439 --> 01:23:03.579
and was American by blood and by everything, played the
1424
01:23:03.619 --> 01:23:07.810
stereotypical Mexican in the United States and then played the
1425
01:23:07.850 --> 01:23:13.609
stereotypical American in Mexico. Same thing with Art Barr. You know,
1426
01:23:13.670 --> 01:23:17.380
in Worlds Collide, that pay-per-view very much based on nationalism.
1427
01:23:19.020 --> 01:23:22.439
And Mr. Fuji demonstrated that. I mean, you had the
1428
01:23:22.699 --> 01:23:26.930
Pearl Harbor attack and the sneaky Japanese and the throwing
1429
01:23:26.939 --> 01:23:32.449
of the salt. Tojo Yamamoto, another one. Tojo Yamamoto, a
1430
01:23:32.489 --> 01:23:35.829
little tiny guy, but he's a legend in Memphis. Little
1431
01:23:35.890 --> 01:23:39.029
tiny guy, but everyone was afraid of him. And he
1432
01:23:39.069 --> 01:23:43.189
had the flat sandals, the wood sandals that he used
1433
01:23:43.890 --> 01:23:50.300
as foreign objects. But Mr. Fuji started in Hawaii, came
1434
01:23:50.340 --> 01:23:53.239
to the Northwest. That was his first full-time territory. People
1435
01:23:53.260 --> 01:23:56.100
still talk about him. His partner here in the Northwest,
1436
01:23:56.159 --> 01:24:03.779
because as you know, growing up, African-Americans always teamed with African-Americans. Indians,
1437
01:24:03.979 --> 01:24:10.239
Native Americans always teamed with Native Americans. You know, and Japanese,
1438
01:24:10.279 --> 01:24:15.220
of course, always teamed with Japanese. And his tag team
1439
01:24:15.260 --> 01:24:17.239
partner here in the Northwest was a man by the
1440
01:24:17.260 --> 01:24:21.619
name of Haru Sasaki. And Haru Sasaki was, you know,
1441
01:24:21.640 --> 01:24:25.319
very much like Mr. Fuji, same idea. And he ended
1442
01:24:25.380 --> 01:24:31.890
up homesteading here. And after a while, Haru Sasaki, you know,
1443
01:24:31.909 --> 01:24:34.850
stayed here for so long that he eventually became a babyface.
1444
01:24:35.750 --> 01:24:39.670
And he went from the stereotypical Japanese heel to, you know,
1445
01:24:39.949 --> 01:24:45.029
this almost like uncle-like character. And he stayed here. And
1446
01:24:45.069 --> 01:24:46.789
matter of fact, he worked at a deli in a
1447
01:24:46.829 --> 01:24:51.550
grocery store in the Portland area for years and years
1448
01:24:51.609 --> 01:24:54.470
and years. And people would go in and see him.
1449
01:24:54.529 --> 01:24:59.039
And like I said, he became from this evil, salt-throwing,
1450
01:24:59.159 --> 01:25:03.229
World War II, sneaky Japanese stereotype. He was here for
1451
01:25:03.289 --> 01:25:06.600
so long that eventually he became like this beloved uncle
1452
01:25:07.680 --> 01:25:10.319
in Portland. And Mr. Fuji kind of did too as
1453
01:25:10.380 --> 01:25:16.239
well in the WWF. But Dutch Savage tells a story,
1454
01:25:16.279 --> 01:25:18.739
you can find it on YouTube, of he and Lonnie
1455
01:25:18.779 --> 01:25:21.770
Main getting Mr. Fuji drunk on a trip down to Medford.
1456
01:25:21.789 --> 01:25:25.869
And they got him drunk. And you can watch the
1457
01:25:25.890 --> 01:25:27.770
story on YouTube. I don't want to spoil it for you,
1458
01:25:27.789 --> 01:25:31.680
but it's pretty funny. It's one of those crazy character stories.
1459
01:25:32.279 --> 01:25:34.420
But you probably know, and I think most people that
1460
01:25:34.460 --> 01:25:37.060
talked about Mr. Fuji and his dad talked about him
1461
01:25:37.100 --> 01:25:41.819
as a manager and talked about, you know, Yoki's run
1462
01:25:41.850 --> 01:25:46.649
with Yokozuna and his run with Demolition and things like that.
1463
01:25:47.369 --> 01:25:49.869
And also, and this is kind of what I want
1464
01:25:49.890 --> 01:25:52.689
to get into, when people today, you know, they complain
1465
01:25:52.729 --> 01:25:56.659
about wrestling. Oh, Roman Reigns this and John Cena that,
1466
01:25:56.680 --> 01:25:58.979
and oh my God, that was stupid and this was stupid.
1467
01:25:59.770 --> 01:26:02.090
And the same people who complain about the stupidity in
1468
01:26:02.130 --> 01:26:04.630
wrestling today, and I'm not saying these complaints aren't valid,
1469
01:26:04.649 --> 01:26:08.800
because they are. But the same people who complain about
1470
01:26:08.859 --> 01:26:11.460
wrestling today and how stupid it is go, oh my gosh,
1471
01:26:11.659 --> 01:26:16.939
I love Fuji Vice and Fuji General and Fuji Bandito
1472
01:26:17.779 --> 01:26:20.640
and all these terrible things that they had on Tuesday
1473
01:26:20.699 --> 01:26:23.880
Night Titans and all this stuff. I mean, that stuff
1474
01:26:23.920 --> 01:26:26.659
was awful. I remember as a kid, you know, even
1475
01:26:26.680 --> 01:26:28.520
though I was a kid, I hated all that stuff.
1476
01:26:29.840 --> 01:26:31.699
It was the worst. I mean, it was so embarrassing.
1477
01:26:31.720 --> 01:26:33.899
They got those people, a lot of times Morocco and
1478
01:26:33.960 --> 01:26:37.100
the actors in it, doing those sketches, they were all drunk.
1479
01:26:37.810 --> 01:26:40.170
And it was just a rib on them almost because
1480
01:26:40.869 --> 01:26:43.489
they knew that they were terrible actors. Vince knew that
1481
01:26:43.510 --> 01:26:47.210
they were terrible actors, but they got enjoyment doing those.
1482
01:26:49.390 --> 01:26:52.329
But it's just funny how stuff that you hate now
1483
01:26:53.390 --> 01:26:57.750
is someone else's nostalgia. And someone else looks back on
1484
01:26:57.789 --> 01:27:01.210
it fondly and And that's, you know, we're seeing that
1485
01:27:01.270 --> 01:27:05.489
now with John Cena, and we're seeing it now with
1486
01:27:05.550 --> 01:27:09.069
other things, but it's just funny how stuff that is terrible,
1487
01:27:09.439 --> 01:27:12.539
that you didn't like, people, you know, just because you're younger,
1488
01:27:12.560 --> 01:27:16.020
and you're thinner, and you're better looking, and life feels safer,
1489
01:27:16.039 --> 01:27:20.149
you end up loving it, but... Regardless of how terrible Mr.
1490
01:27:20.210 --> 01:27:22.869
Fuji was, you still, you know, you look back on
1491
01:27:22.890 --> 01:27:27.090
him with fondness, and deservedly so. One of wrestling's great characters,
1492
01:27:27.149 --> 01:27:31.760
one of wrestling's great rivers, and I don't know. Just
1493
01:27:32.060 --> 01:27:35.979
God bless Mr. Fuji. May he rest in peace. Hey,
1494
01:27:36.000 --> 01:27:38.619
coming up, we'll talk about some other big anniversaries this week,
1495
01:27:38.659 --> 01:27:43.000
but not only that, we have got a major announcement,
1496
01:27:43.020 --> 01:27:46.439
which I will tell you about next, which is very exciting.
1497
01:27:46.949 --> 01:27:49.149
about a guest that I'm thrilled to have, and we'll
1498
01:27:49.189 --> 01:27:51.590
talk about her coming up next.
1499
01:27:58.670 --> 01:27:59.189
Hey, everyone.
1500
01:27:59.229 --> 01:28:01.949
Greg Parks here. You've probably heard me hosting Wrestling Night
1501
01:28:01.979 --> 01:28:05.060
in America after pay-per-views and also co-hosting the Tuesday Flagship
1502
01:28:05.079 --> 01:28:08.420
with Wade Keller. I also host a VIP-exclusive podcast every
1503
01:28:08.460 --> 01:28:11.239
week called Greg Parks Out Loud. In this podcast, I
1504
01:28:11.279 --> 01:28:13.739
delve into a single topic for around 20 minutes, perfect
1505
01:28:13.779 --> 01:28:15.659
length for one of your daily commutes or while walking
1506
01:28:15.680 --> 01:28:18.430
the dog. A couple of my recent episodes included a
1507
01:28:18.449 --> 01:28:21.270
look at TNA as they move to AMC, and WWE
1508
01:28:21.310 --> 01:28:24.680
and AEW injuries for the year 2025. You can listen
1509
01:28:24.720 --> 01:28:27.579
to VIP Podcasts with a VIP membership on many platforms,
1510
01:28:27.699 --> 01:28:30.680
including on Patreon, Spotify, the Apple Podcasts native app on
1511
01:28:30.779 --> 01:28:33.810
iPhone and CarPlay, just about every popular iOS and Android
1512
01:28:33.819 --> 01:28:36.130
podcast app out there, and even stream right from the
1513
01:28:36.210 --> 01:28:41.090
ad-free PWTorch VIP website. Full details on VIP membership at pwtorch.com
1514
01:28:41.130 --> 01:28:44.750
slash govip. As an added bonus, VIP membership means you
1515
01:28:44.789 --> 01:28:47.689
won't hear this commercial again, or any commercials, as commercial
1516
01:28:47.720 --> 01:28:50.229
breaks are skipped right over on the VIP podcast feed
1517
01:28:50.409 --> 01:28:53.079
in addition to all the commercial-free VIP podcasts.
1518
01:28:53.460 --> 01:28:53.880
Check it out.
1519
01:28:54.039 --> 01:28:55.920
We'd love for you to join our community and unlock
1520
01:28:56.020 --> 01:28:58.260
access to all our VIP-exclusive content.
1521
01:29:00.289 --> 01:29:02.029
What do you think of that ad with Wade Keller?
1522
01:29:02.090 --> 01:29:05.899
It's funny how Batista is now nostalgia, but you know,
1523
01:29:05.939 --> 01:29:08.680
he had a great career too. It's Jim Valley. We're
1524
01:29:08.720 --> 01:29:12.500
back Saturday morning wrestling. And speaking of nostalgia this week,
1525
01:29:13.020 --> 01:29:17.210
they announced the casting for the new Netflix series, a
1526
01:29:17.250 --> 01:29:22.449
drama or scripted series based on blow the gorgeous ladies
1527
01:29:22.729 --> 01:29:26.699
of wrestling. And if, If you're too young to remember GLOW,
1528
01:29:27.039 --> 01:29:30.500
it was in 1986 to 1990, and it was this
1529
01:29:30.520 --> 01:29:38.810
divas division of wrestling, this really campy, over-the-top version of
1530
01:29:38.930 --> 01:29:41.729
professional wrestling. And you can find some of it online,
1531
01:29:41.750 --> 01:29:46.689
and you really should, because David McLean, the promoter of it,
1532
01:29:46.770 --> 01:29:50.430
has tried many times, many incarnations of to a get
1533
01:29:50.590 --> 01:29:53.010
glow going in one form or another. I think they're
1534
01:29:53.029 --> 01:29:57.130
trying again now with wow superstars, women of wrestling, but
1535
01:29:57.170 --> 01:30:00.680
he's tried powerful women of wrestling. And it's always based
1536
01:30:00.760 --> 01:30:08.020
on these strong characters, these very distinctive fantasy-like characters and
1537
01:30:08.100 --> 01:30:12.579
wacky comedy. And the in-ring action never really mattered. And
1538
01:30:12.680 --> 01:30:15.159
growing up as a kid, I did not like glow
1539
01:30:15.220 --> 01:30:17.239
at all. And you'd think that I would because I
1540
01:30:17.279 --> 01:30:20.319
was young and horny and You know, they definitely were
1541
01:30:20.359 --> 01:30:24.159
about good-looking women for the most part and some titillation
1542
01:30:24.199 --> 01:30:25.739
and things like that. But, you know, I was a
1543
01:30:25.800 --> 01:30:29.319
purist when it came to professional wrestling. I loved my
1544
01:30:29.380 --> 01:30:33.520
wrestling pure, so I hated GLOW. Hated it. Just the worst.
1545
01:30:34.960 --> 01:30:36.979
And because I thought it was a mockery of wrestling.
1546
01:30:38.539 --> 01:30:41.340
I know. I know. But anyway.
1547
01:30:43.199 --> 01:30:44.859
A few years ago, and you should look this up.
1548
01:30:44.880 --> 01:30:46.880
I think it's online and they show it a lot
1549
01:30:46.920 --> 01:30:49.140
on the logo channel. If you check your DVR, you
1550
01:30:49.159 --> 01:30:51.560
can find it. But there was a documentary a few
1551
01:30:51.600 --> 01:30:54.380
years ago about the gorgeous ladies of wrestling and they
1552
01:30:54.939 --> 01:30:59.840
all reconnected for an anniversary at Cauliflower Alley a few
1553
01:30:59.880 --> 01:31:01.560
years ago. And if you go to Cauliflower Alley, a
1554
01:31:01.600 --> 01:31:05.310
lot of times Little Egypt and Roxy Astor and a
1555
01:31:05.319 --> 01:31:07.869
lot of the women of wrestling, gorgeous women of wrestling
1556
01:31:07.890 --> 01:31:10.949
were there. And I've tried a few times to get
1557
01:31:10.970 --> 01:31:14.270
Little Egypt on and a few of the glow women,
1558
01:31:15.310 --> 01:31:18.930
and it just hasn't worked out. But I am now
1559
01:31:18.989 --> 01:31:21.970
happy to say that not only am I getting a
1560
01:31:22.029 --> 01:31:28.350
glow woman on the show on October 1st, but we
1561
01:31:28.399 --> 01:31:32.460
are getting what I consider to be the premier gorgeous
1562
01:31:32.760 --> 01:31:36.239
lady of wrestling. Because not only has she done glow,
1563
01:31:37.239 --> 01:31:39.960
Not only has she done POW, but she's done a
1564
01:31:40.020 --> 01:31:44.039
ton of acting. She's done movies. And she's also done
1565
01:31:44.140 --> 01:31:47.970
roller derby. And she's in need of some help right now.
1566
01:31:47.989 --> 01:31:49.430
And we're going to talk to her. She's one of
1567
01:31:49.529 --> 01:31:55.829
the great characters of wrestling. Coming on the show, Matilda
1568
01:31:55.890 --> 01:32:00.170
the Hun. Queen Kong, you may know her. Look her up.
1569
01:32:01.350 --> 01:32:06.390
She's a large woman, like 6'9. She's been on Married
1570
01:32:06.430 --> 01:32:08.989
with Children, and she was in, I think, the Police
1571
01:32:09.060 --> 01:32:12.399
Academy movies or the Naked Gun movies. Like I said,
1572
01:32:12.420 --> 01:32:17.479
she's done Mud Wrestling. Here's the other thing. I do
1573
01:32:17.779 --> 01:32:20.739
want to make this clear. Obviously, Wade likes to keep
1574
01:32:20.779 --> 01:32:24.220
these shows minivan-friendly, and we certainly do our best. Sorry
1575
01:32:24.239 --> 01:32:27.560
about Bill Bundy dropping the F-bomb last week, but it happens.
1576
01:32:29.359 --> 01:32:31.340
And we will do our best when she's on to
1577
01:32:31.380 --> 01:32:34.399
keep it as minivan friendly as possible. But part of
1578
01:32:34.460 --> 01:32:38.279
her story, and we'll try to talk about this as
1579
01:32:38.340 --> 01:32:41.300
grown up as possible, but it still is some adult content,
1580
01:32:41.319 --> 01:32:44.600
so keep that in mind. But she did mud wrestling
1581
01:32:44.659 --> 01:32:51.680
and she also did some other adult content. And that's
1582
01:32:51.779 --> 01:32:53.880
part of her story because it led to, and she's
1583
01:32:53.899 --> 01:32:56.569
not ashamed of it, And because it led to her,
1584
01:32:56.729 --> 01:32:58.859
her wrestling career. So we do have to talk about
1585
01:32:58.899 --> 01:33:01.460
it briefly at least. So just, just, just keep that
1586
01:33:01.500 --> 01:33:04.380
in mind. We'll try to keep it as clinical as possible,
1587
01:33:05.479 --> 01:33:07.199
but it is part of the story and it's kind
1588
01:33:07.220 --> 01:33:11.060
of hard to ignore. So, but she's, she's an all
1589
01:33:11.100 --> 01:33:15.869
time great character. She's hilarious. And I'm very, very excited
1590
01:33:15.930 --> 01:33:17.590
to have her on the show. I think this is
1591
01:33:17.609 --> 01:33:20.409
going to be one of the great interviews that we've done.
1592
01:33:20.449 --> 01:33:22.529
And we've done a lot of great interviews on the show. So,
1593
01:33:23.300 --> 01:33:27.279
In about a month, Queen Kong, Dee Booher, Deanna Booher,
1594
01:33:28.220 --> 01:33:30.020
Matilda the Hun is going to be on the show.
1595
01:33:30.060 --> 01:33:33.859
So we'll talk gorgeous ladies of wrestling. We'll talk roller derby.
1596
01:33:34.180 --> 01:33:37.000
We'll talk acting. We'll talk mud wrestling. She's done all
1597
01:33:37.060 --> 01:33:41.239
of the carny stuff. And she's in some bad shape
1598
01:33:41.300 --> 01:33:43.119
right now. And she's got to go fund me for
1599
01:33:43.159 --> 01:33:46.439
some of her health issues. So if you like the interview,
1600
01:33:46.479 --> 01:33:48.979
if you remember Queen Kong, maybe you want to kick
1601
01:33:49.039 --> 01:33:50.659
in a couple of bucks to help her out because
1602
01:33:50.680 --> 01:33:52.680
she's got some medical issues. And as a person who's
1603
01:33:52.720 --> 01:33:56.399
had the medical issues myself i understand how that goes
1604
01:33:56.479 --> 01:33:59.800
so so keep that in mind that we're going to
1605
01:33:59.819 --> 01:34:03.739
have d boo her queen kong matilda the hun is
1606
01:34:03.779 --> 01:34:05.079
going to be on the show and i'll tweet out
1607
01:34:05.100 --> 01:34:07.199
some pictures of her if you haven't if you're not
1608
01:34:07.260 --> 01:34:09.500
quite sure who she is but this is going to
1609
01:34:09.539 --> 01:34:14.079
be great i'm ridiculously excited to have her on the
1610
01:34:14.100 --> 01:34:16.899
show And also, don't forget, in a couple of weeks,
1611
01:34:16.970 --> 01:34:19.989
in about three weeks, I guess, Bruce Pritchard from the
1612
01:34:20.350 --> 01:34:22.670
WWE is going to be on the show. And of course,
1613
01:34:22.689 --> 01:34:26.449
he's got a new podcast on MLW Radio with Conrad Thompson.
1614
01:34:26.470 --> 01:34:30.529
And thank you to Conrad Thompson for helping us get
1615
01:34:30.770 --> 01:34:34.000
this online. But I'm very excited about that. So really
1616
01:34:34.039 --> 01:34:36.340
trying to do some cool interviews, trying to do some
1617
01:34:36.380 --> 01:34:41.079
different stuff here. And hopefully you'll sign up at pwtorch.com
1618
01:34:41.100 --> 01:34:46.149
slash go live VIP and show your appreciation for for
1619
01:34:46.170 --> 01:34:48.229
the work I do here at Saturday Morning Wrestling as
1620
01:34:48.250 --> 01:34:53.930
we go down memory lane. Speaking of Batista, and him
1621
01:34:53.970 --> 01:35:00.619
being nostalgia, this week's SmackDown celebrated its 17th anniversary. It's
1622
01:35:00.659 --> 01:35:04.939
been on the air now for 17 years, which is incredible. Remember,
1623
01:35:04.960 --> 01:35:06.939
it used to be on the, was it on the
1624
01:35:07.000 --> 01:35:10.180
CW first or UPN first? I think it was UPN first.
1625
01:35:10.659 --> 01:35:14.720
Because didn't it help launch UPN? They had UPN and
1626
01:35:14.760 --> 01:35:17.300
then they had the Star Trek, the new Star Trek
1627
01:35:17.319 --> 01:35:20.699
that they brought back and SmackDown. And those were kind
1628
01:35:20.739 --> 01:35:23.699
of the first shows that really kind of were supposed
1629
01:35:23.720 --> 01:35:30.109
to attract people and have them watch UPN. Isn't that crazy?
1630
01:35:32.050 --> 01:35:34.729
You think about all of the shifts in technology and,
1631
01:35:35.310 --> 01:35:38.319
you know, UPN and the CW and stuff. I guess
1632
01:35:38.359 --> 01:35:41.250
the CW is still on the air. You look back
1633
01:35:41.329 --> 01:35:43.909
now and you go, what a mistake that was to,
1634
01:35:45.949 --> 01:35:48.390
you know, that turned out when UPN launched, the timing
1635
01:35:48.430 --> 01:35:55.050
really wasn't great because it was the, you know, sort
1636
01:35:55.090 --> 01:36:02.869
of the peak of cable television. And the, everything went
1637
01:36:02.930 --> 01:36:07.850
down from there. Anyway, everything sort of went down from
1638
01:36:07.880 --> 01:36:10.800
there and it really was kind of terrible timing. as
1639
01:36:10.810 --> 01:36:12.359
far as a terrible time to try to put a
1640
01:36:12.420 --> 01:36:15.140
network on, because like you said, it was really the
1641
01:36:15.220 --> 01:36:17.779
peak of cable television. And now everything we're see where
1642
01:36:17.819 --> 01:36:21.239
we are with so much streaming and cord cutting and,
1643
01:36:22.020 --> 01:36:24.340
and everything like that, that it really was a terrible time,
1644
01:36:24.359 --> 01:36:26.439
but SmackDown got remember what it was. I mean, it
1645
01:36:26.479 --> 01:36:29.630
was great. It used to be the rocks TV show
1646
01:36:29.689 --> 01:36:33.630
and they had all those major matches on SmackDown and
1647
01:36:33.670 --> 01:36:38.350
it was really exciting. And now, I mean, SmackDown right
1648
01:36:38.409 --> 01:36:45.310
now is fine. But, I mean, right now it's a
1649
01:36:45.319 --> 01:36:48.449
very easy show to watch. They don't do too much.
1650
01:36:48.609 --> 01:36:50.710
You know, to me you could argue they do too little.
1651
01:36:50.729 --> 01:36:52.310
It doesn't have the most star power in the world.
1652
01:36:53.289 --> 01:37:01.609
But it's, I don't know, just 17 years of SmackDown. Crazy. Crazy, crazy, crazy.
1653
01:37:01.630 --> 01:37:05.920
And it's going to be interesting what the future holds.
1654
01:37:07.359 --> 01:37:13.130
All right. Well, let's switch gears here. Coming up in
1655
01:37:13.149 --> 01:37:15.710
just a couple of minutes, we'll have her on. You
1656
01:37:15.750 --> 01:37:20.369
know her as Lady Blossom from WCW. She's been connected
1657
01:37:20.409 --> 01:37:23.750
with Chris Adams, Billy Jack Haynes, and, of course, Stone
1658
01:37:23.810 --> 01:37:26.770
Cold Steve Austin. And she's got a new book out.
1659
01:37:27.449 --> 01:37:30.289
And we'll talk to Jeannie Clark, the lovely Jeannie Clark,
1660
01:37:30.329 --> 01:37:35.029
coming up next here on the PWGeorge Livecast. Saturday morning wrestling,
1661
01:37:35.069 --> 01:37:37.060
it's Jim Vallee, and we're glad you're here.
1662
01:37:45.039 --> 01:37:46.819
If you're listening to us on the Apple Podcast app,
1663
01:37:46.899 --> 01:37:48.939
on Spotify, or any other app that allows you to
1664
01:37:49.020 --> 01:37:50.779
rate our podcast, please take a moment to give us
1665
01:37:50.840 --> 01:37:53.729
a five-star rating. It really helps us in the algorithm
1666
01:37:53.750 --> 01:37:56.949
and helps them know that you recommend us to others.
1667
01:37:57.130 --> 01:37:58.970
Just look for a place to rate the show on Spotify,
1668
01:37:59.010 --> 01:38:01.130
on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to our shows,
1669
01:38:01.329 --> 01:38:03.609
and please click that five-star rating. And of course, thank
1670
01:38:03.630 --> 01:38:04.569
you so much for listening.
1671
01:38:06.829 --> 01:38:09.390
And we're back, Saturday Morning Wrestling with Jim Bally, each
1672
01:38:09.409 --> 01:38:12.770
and every Saturday on the PWTorch Livecast. You can listen
1673
01:38:12.840 --> 01:38:17.119
live or download at PWTorchLivecast.com. And I want to thank you.
1674
01:38:17.140 --> 01:38:20.380
You know, I mentioned this when I did the livecast
1675
01:38:20.420 --> 01:38:24.239
this week on Wednesday with Wade Keller, but the numbers
1676
01:38:24.560 --> 01:38:27.020
for this show have been great. I mean, I'm always
1677
01:38:27.119 --> 01:38:29.029
in one of the, I'm never the top show, which
1678
01:38:29.090 --> 01:38:31.819
I shouldn't be. because it's a nostalgia show, but I'm
1679
01:38:31.899 --> 01:38:33.960
always like in the top two or three. This week
1680
01:38:33.979 --> 01:38:37.739
we were number two and thank you for that as
1681
01:38:37.800 --> 01:38:40.159
far as torch shows go. I mean, when I started
1682
01:38:40.199 --> 01:38:42.970
this thing, you know, being on Saturday and doing a
1683
01:38:42.989 --> 01:38:45.569
nostalgia show and so much of the torch is driven
1684
01:38:45.689 --> 01:38:49.220
by modern wrestling and reactions to to things that are
1685
01:38:49.279 --> 01:38:52.960
happening now in the world of professional wrestling. The fact
1686
01:38:53.000 --> 01:38:55.699
that you've enjoyed the show and supported it in the
1687
01:38:55.739 --> 01:38:59.060
numbers you have, I really, really appreciate it. And I've
1688
01:38:59.100 --> 01:39:03.039
tried to pay you back by doing the best show
1689
01:39:03.079 --> 01:39:05.880
that we can here and getting some different guests, trying
1690
01:39:05.899 --> 01:39:08.960
to do some new things. And it's been a very
1691
01:39:09.020 --> 01:39:12.680
positive and pleasant experience. And I really, really appreciate it.
1692
01:39:13.159 --> 01:39:15.979
Speaking of pleasure, as I've mentioned before, a few weeks ago,
1693
01:39:16.039 --> 01:39:20.000
I went to the NWA Fan Fest in Charlotte a
1694
01:39:20.039 --> 01:39:22.000
couple of weeks ago. And I was excited to go.
1695
01:39:22.119 --> 01:39:24.810
It's always fun. But, you know, one of the things is,
1696
01:39:25.010 --> 01:39:26.649
you know, I mean, I don't live in Charlotte. I
1697
01:39:26.689 --> 01:39:29.689
don't know a lot of the people in Charlotte. And
1698
01:39:29.750 --> 01:39:33.989
it's very much like a family reunion. And just by chance,
1699
01:39:35.390 --> 01:39:37.470
because of this show and some of the interviews I did,
1700
01:39:37.489 --> 01:39:41.029
I got a random text from the promoters asking me
1701
01:39:41.090 --> 01:39:44.340
if I would come down. and do one of the
1702
01:39:44.380 --> 01:39:46.479
Q & As with the first person who did a
1703
01:39:46.520 --> 01:39:48.979
Q & A. And it went so well that I
1704
01:39:49.020 --> 01:39:50.760
was lucky enough to get to do all the Q
1705
01:39:50.760 --> 01:39:52.899
& As that weekend. And not only did I get
1706
01:39:53.180 --> 01:39:56.100
to interview some of my favorite stars from childhood, but
1707
01:39:56.560 --> 01:39:58.699
I got to interact with so many fans, a lot
1708
01:39:58.720 --> 01:40:01.220
of people coming up and really appreciating the job I did.
1709
01:40:01.279 --> 01:40:04.229
But it was also fun to talk about memories and things.
1710
01:40:04.289 --> 01:40:05.930
And to me, that was the highlight that I actually
1711
01:40:05.949 --> 01:40:09.170
got to engage with so many people and so many
1712
01:40:09.229 --> 01:40:13.350
folks that had mutual experiences growing up and watching wrestling.
1713
01:40:13.970 --> 01:40:15.960
And the woman who kicked it off, who I got
1714
01:40:15.979 --> 01:40:18.539
to hang out with a little bit at Charlotte and
1715
01:40:18.579 --> 01:40:21.239
really had a lovely time with her and her daughter.
1716
01:40:21.380 --> 01:40:25.060
And I'm glad she's joining us now live. The ex-wife
1717
01:40:25.119 --> 01:40:28.609
of Steve Austin, the former valet of stunning Steve Austin,
1718
01:40:28.649 --> 01:40:31.739
and she's been involved in wrestling for and around wrestling,
1719
01:40:31.800 --> 01:40:34.159
and she's got a great story. We're so happy that
1720
01:40:34.180 --> 01:40:37.859
she's one of the success stories of professional wrestling. Joining
1721
01:40:37.899 --> 01:40:41.010
us now live from England, fingers crossed, is the lovely
1722
01:40:41.060 --> 01:40:45.729
Lady Blossom, Jeannie Clark. Jeannie, how are you today? Hi, Jim.
1723
01:40:45.810 --> 01:40:48.170
I'm doing really good, thank you. It's so good to
1724
01:40:48.210 --> 01:40:52.210
hear your voice because I haven't actually heard your voice
1725
01:40:52.250 --> 01:40:55.770
since Charlotte, and I just remember doing the very first
1726
01:40:55.869 --> 01:40:58.409
Q & A I've ever done, and we were walking
1727
01:40:58.449 --> 01:41:01.119
back there, and I was so nervous. But you made
1728
01:41:01.180 --> 01:41:04.760
me feel so comfortable. And then it just kind of flowed.
1729
01:41:05.159 --> 01:41:08.560
But I was quite anxious before my very first Q
1730
01:41:08.560 --> 01:41:11.159
& A. But I was so excited to come back
1731
01:41:11.199 --> 01:41:15.520
to the States because it had been 15 years since
1732
01:41:15.579 --> 01:41:18.560
I'd come back, you know, got a chance to come back.
1733
01:41:18.659 --> 01:41:24.020
And what a great show to go to in Charlotte.
1734
01:41:24.640 --> 01:41:28.479
So with Greg Price and... I was just ecstatic, and
1735
01:41:28.500 --> 01:41:30.779
so was Cassie, and thank you for looking after us
1736
01:41:30.840 --> 01:41:33.939
so much while we were there. Well, that was the thing.
1737
01:41:34.420 --> 01:41:37.000
I will say this, that, you know, I mean, so
1738
01:41:37.060 --> 01:41:39.550
much of the Charlotte Fan Fest, it's going on for years,
1739
01:41:39.600 --> 01:41:42.829
and it's very much, as you saw, like a family reunion,
1740
01:41:42.869 --> 01:41:45.130
and I think that they've forgotten that you were new
1741
01:41:45.229 --> 01:41:47.590
and you hadn't been in the States, and I will
1742
01:41:47.630 --> 01:41:49.369
say this, they should have had somebody with you, and
1743
01:41:49.390 --> 01:41:52.149
I was, and I sort of, because I did your interview,
1744
01:41:52.250 --> 01:41:54.229
and you were there, yeah, I sort of fell into
1745
01:41:54.270 --> 01:41:56.840
that role, and I was I was happy to do it,
1746
01:41:56.880 --> 01:41:58.560
to take care of you as best I could, even
1747
01:41:58.579 --> 01:42:00.409
though I didn't know much more than you. But it
1748
01:42:01.069 --> 01:42:04.930
was lovely. Cassie's a lovely young woman, and she's very cool.
1749
01:42:04.989 --> 01:42:08.050
And we both have some common interests as far as
1750
01:42:08.130 --> 01:42:12.640
travel and liking roadside attractions and tacky tourist stuff. So
1751
01:42:12.649 --> 01:42:14.359
it was a lot of fun to talk to her.
1752
01:42:14.600 --> 01:42:16.000
It was, yeah.
1753
01:42:16.079 --> 01:42:18.319
Yeah. It was so much fun.
1754
01:42:18.479 --> 01:42:23.159
And one of Cassie's biggest memories... growing up in the
1755
01:42:23.220 --> 01:42:26.229
States was Chuck E. Cheese. Do you remember that? It
1756
01:42:26.239 --> 01:42:28.229
was Chuck E. Cheese. And she wanted to go to
1757
01:42:28.289 --> 01:42:33.010
Chuck E. Cheese and take some video. And we were thinking, oh,
1758
01:42:33.029 --> 01:42:36.510
we'll just call a taxi. And then you told us
1759
01:42:36.590 --> 01:42:40.369
about that Lyft, you know, the company called Lyft. And
1760
01:42:40.810 --> 01:42:44.369
we didn't have Wi-Fi. And we were so appreciative that
1761
01:42:44.899 --> 01:42:48.279
you booked us that and waited for us. And it
1762
01:42:48.319 --> 01:42:50.699
was very, very nice. Thank you for that.
1763
01:42:50.939 --> 01:42:51.020
Oh.
1764
01:42:51.380 --> 01:42:54.659
You're very welcome. It's a funny story. Yeah, Cassie's what,
1765
01:42:54.720 --> 01:42:57.319
is she 20?
1766
01:42:57.680 --> 01:43:01.770
Yeah, she's almost 20. Okay. Yeah, it was just, it
1767
01:43:01.810 --> 01:43:04.170
was funny. Yeah.
1768
01:43:04.890 --> 01:43:07.130
Yeah, I mean, no, it makes perfect sense when you
1769
01:43:07.170 --> 01:43:11.130
explain it. I think we're all nostalgic for things like
1770
01:43:11.149 --> 01:43:13.409
that in our childhood, but when you first said it,
1771
01:43:13.430 --> 01:43:16.479
I was like, what? You know, you don't hear people
1772
01:43:16.520 --> 01:43:18.539
say that a lot, but then When you explained it,
1773
01:43:18.560 --> 01:43:21.140
it made perfect sense and it was very, very, very sweet.
1774
01:43:21.220 --> 01:43:24.079
I was happy to help facilitate that with you. But
1775
01:43:24.359 --> 01:43:26.619
let's talk a little bit about how did you get
1776
01:43:26.680 --> 01:43:30.220
connected with the FanFest, with NWA Legends?
1777
01:43:32.760 --> 01:43:37.699
I just spoke with Greg Price and he had obviously
1778
01:43:37.739 --> 01:43:42.170
known that I'd never done a convention and it kind
1779
01:43:42.210 --> 01:43:46.810
of coincided with me having a new book. So we
1780
01:43:46.850 --> 01:43:50.350
just chatted and and he invited me along and i
1781
01:43:50.390 --> 01:43:53.869
was really grateful for that and i got to see
1782
01:43:53.890 --> 01:43:56.069
a lot of people that i hadn't seen in years
1783
01:43:57.920 --> 01:44:01.000
yeah you know i thought magnum was.
1784
01:44:01.000 --> 01:44:05.880
One yeah let's let's talk about that like for example
1785
01:44:06.180 --> 01:44:11.729
um you know i mean with with wrestling fans um we,
1786
01:44:11.850 --> 01:44:14.939
you know, it's like, you know, we, we just assume like, Oh,
1787
01:44:15.020 --> 01:44:19.680
if you're, if you're on TV with so-and-so that you must,
1788
01:44:19.720 --> 01:44:21.760
Oh gosh, you guys are best friends and you must
1789
01:44:21.840 --> 01:44:24.050
go out to dinner and you must hang out all
1790
01:44:24.090 --> 01:44:26.409
the time. And, and if you're not on TV, well
1791
01:44:26.449 --> 01:44:28.430
then together, then, Oh gee, you know, who knew that
1792
01:44:28.449 --> 01:44:31.789
they knew that person and such, you know, the, you know,
1793
01:44:31.810 --> 01:44:34.760
just those, those, those kinds of perceptions. But like, for example,
1794
01:44:34.800 --> 01:44:36.319
I know that, that one of the people that you
1795
01:44:36.359 --> 01:44:40.399
wanted to see that gets you together with was, Bobby Fulton.
1796
01:44:41.300 --> 01:44:44.930
Tell me about your relationship with Bobby Fulton. That's someone
1797
01:44:44.970 --> 01:44:47.770
that I don't know that people would necessarily associate you with.
1798
01:44:49.029 --> 01:44:54.489
Well, I remember Bobby because Chris and I worked with
1799
01:44:54.529 --> 01:44:58.399
him in the territories and it was about 30 years
1800
01:44:58.760 --> 01:45:03.439
since I'd seen him. But I just talked to him
1801
01:45:03.520 --> 01:45:06.680
on Facebook and he did a quote for my book
1802
01:45:06.699 --> 01:45:11.920
called And I thought he looked great. And it was
1803
01:45:11.960 --> 01:45:14.649
just like it was yesterday that I spoke to him.
1804
01:45:14.729 --> 01:45:18.130
But I just put it together. Gosh, that's been 30
1805
01:45:18.130 --> 01:45:21.890
years since I've seen him. And most people there I
1806
01:45:21.949 --> 01:45:25.890
hadn't seen for 25 years. And it was just great,
1807
01:45:25.970 --> 01:45:28.989
you know, to say hi after all this time. It's
1808
01:45:29.029 --> 01:45:30.369
like going full circle. Yeah.
1809
01:45:31.930 --> 01:45:34.470
Exactly. I like, like, I know it's like, you know,
1810
01:45:34.510 --> 01:45:37.189
you obviously know these people, but you were so excited
1811
01:45:37.229 --> 01:45:39.789
to see some of your old friends. You know, you
1812
01:45:39.850 --> 01:45:42.310
almost looked, I just looked like on the surface, you're not,
1813
01:45:42.409 --> 01:45:43.949
but you look, you know, you looked like you were
1814
01:45:43.989 --> 01:45:46.760
a fan because, you know, you had pictures of Nikita
1815
01:45:46.770 --> 01:45:50.159
Koloff and Lex Luger and all these people. I guess
1816
01:45:50.199 --> 01:45:52.239
it was sort of like a, you know, almost like a,
1817
01:45:52.319 --> 01:45:54.420
like a college or high school reunion for you.
1818
01:45:55.840 --> 01:45:59.380
Well, Lex Luger I knew in WCW, but I was
1819
01:45:59.460 --> 01:46:04.750
a fan of Nikita. um, with his ministry. And, um,
1820
01:46:05.029 --> 01:46:07.250
you know, I just thought it would be really cool
1821
01:46:07.270 --> 01:46:10.649
to go say hi. And yeah, I mean, I, I
1822
01:46:11.409 --> 01:46:16.130
really appreciate, uh, Nikita's work that he's done. And he
1823
01:46:16.170 --> 01:46:18.329
was one of the people that I just wanted to
1824
01:46:18.750 --> 01:46:22.810
go say hi to. I never liked him, but yeah.
1825
01:46:23.550 --> 01:46:25.689
Were there any memories that came back that, uh, that
1826
01:46:25.720 --> 01:46:29.260
you'd forgotten about because of reconnecting with, with anybody, any
1827
01:46:29.319 --> 01:46:32.100
stories or, uh, Or anything that you went, oh my gosh,
1828
01:46:32.140 --> 01:46:33.479
I totally forgot about that.
1829
01:46:34.699 --> 01:46:39.319
Yeah, there was actually. Magnum is the one that actually
1830
01:46:39.399 --> 01:46:45.560
hired me for WCW. And I remember, you know, going
1831
01:46:45.600 --> 01:46:48.390
to work there. But then when I was pregnant and
1832
01:46:48.430 --> 01:46:54.810
I left WCW, Magnum, possibly I'm thinking about 1993, he
1833
01:46:54.890 --> 01:47:05.600
used to... sell these personal attack alarms and I remember
1834
01:47:05.619 --> 01:47:08.819
he came over to Steve and I's house and I
1835
01:47:08.960 --> 01:47:12.750
worked for him for a while selling those and I
1836
01:47:12.789 --> 01:47:15.829
forgot all about that but you know it's just a
1837
01:47:15.850 --> 01:47:19.569
little job I did after I came out of wrestling
1838
01:47:19.630 --> 01:47:23.180
and I would go around trying to sell these personal
1839
01:47:23.260 --> 01:47:27.619
attack alarms that Magnum had you know had helped me
1840
01:47:27.720 --> 01:47:32.239
start this business so Little things like that. You know,
1841
01:47:32.359 --> 01:47:39.250
just several people that you haven't seen and you just
1842
01:47:39.310 --> 01:47:43.729
start chatting and you remember things. But I just was
1843
01:47:44.310 --> 01:47:46.800
happy to see Jen Ross. That was another one. I
1844
01:47:46.859 --> 01:47:48.739
used to talk to her all the time. She's a
1845
01:47:48.800 --> 01:47:52.340
lovely lady. And I just was, wow, you know, how
1846
01:47:52.439 --> 01:47:54.399
are you? Because the last time I saw her, I think,
1847
01:47:54.460 --> 01:47:58.850
was WrestleMania 13. when I went along with Steve and
1848
01:47:58.909 --> 01:48:02.970
he was wrestling Bret Hart. So just this massive span
1849
01:48:03.010 --> 01:48:05.920
of time. And, yeah, I just have a lot of
1850
01:48:05.960 --> 01:48:11.039
memories from Charlotte. And it's really cool.
1851
01:48:11.840 --> 01:48:14.430
You know, your daughter, you mentioned, is coming up on 20.
1852
01:48:14.430 --> 01:48:16.569
And so that means, you know, she was very, very
1853
01:48:16.630 --> 01:48:20.420
young and doesn't remember, you know, your wrestling career. or
1854
01:48:20.579 --> 01:48:25.279
probably much of her father's wrestling career, if any. What
1855
01:48:25.310 --> 01:48:27.949
was it like for her to really, you know, to
1856
01:48:28.029 --> 01:48:32.590
see live in person, you know, some of her, you know,
1857
01:48:32.630 --> 01:48:36.109
personal history as well? Did she have any observations?
1858
01:48:36.140 --> 01:48:42.899
Yes. Well, Cassidy, out of my three daughters, is actually
1859
01:48:42.939 --> 01:48:45.800
a fan of the industry. And she probably knows more
1860
01:48:45.840 --> 01:48:48.899
about it than I do just because she actually loves
1861
01:48:49.420 --> 01:48:56.390
the business. So, you know, she watched mainly the Attitude Era.
1862
01:48:56.600 --> 01:49:00.710
But she's a fan of the business. So she knows
1863
01:49:01.609 --> 01:49:03.729
quite a lot. And she really likes to come along
1864
01:49:03.970 --> 01:49:06.789
to events with me. And I like having her there, too.
1865
01:49:08.340 --> 01:49:10.850
Was there anybody that she was excited to meet? Was
1866
01:49:10.859 --> 01:49:13.430
she a fan of anyone? Are these people a different
1867
01:49:13.470 --> 01:49:16.810
generation for her?
1868
01:49:16.829 --> 01:49:21.529
I don't think she knew as many people in Charlotte,
1869
01:49:21.729 --> 01:49:29.279
but she got along with everybody really well. She likes taxidermy,
1870
01:49:30.140 --> 01:49:32.859
and she kind of takes a bit after Steve there
1871
01:49:32.920 --> 01:49:35.439
because growing up she used to go to a lot
1872
01:49:35.479 --> 01:49:38.439
of the taxidermy places because steve was a hunter you
1873
01:49:38.460 --> 01:49:41.300
know and uh she kind of picked that up from
1874
01:49:41.359 --> 01:49:45.270
him and bobby fortin said to her that uh he
1875
01:49:45.310 --> 01:49:48.590
caught a big fish and perhaps she could stuff it
1876
01:49:48.609 --> 01:49:52.829
for him sorry it's a funny story but she knows
1877
01:49:52.869 --> 01:49:55.550
everybody was really nice yeah.
1878
01:49:55.390 --> 01:49:57.970
Cassie has some very eclectic interest there's no doubt about
1879
01:49:58.010 --> 01:50:00.789
it she's very she's very interesting she can talk about
1880
01:50:00.829 --> 01:50:03.409
a lot of different things she seems to be wise
1881
01:50:03.470 --> 01:50:05.100
beyond her years so good for her.
1882
01:50:08.189 --> 01:50:08.850
Hey, everyone.
1883
01:50:09.220 --> 01:50:12.399
Longtime PWTorch columnist Sean Radican here to let you know
1884
01:50:12.460 --> 01:50:17.399
I've revamped and renewed the Radican Worldwide Podcast for 2026.
1885
01:50:17.399 --> 01:50:21.000
a weekly VIP exclusive. Every week, I break down four
1886
01:50:21.020 --> 01:50:23.939
or five of the biggest trending topics in pro wrestling.
1887
01:50:24.260 --> 01:50:27.420
I also present my analysis, providing insight that helps you
1888
01:50:27.479 --> 01:50:30.239
understand the story better or see it another way than
1889
01:50:30.279 --> 01:50:33.319
maybe is the controversial take out there. Then I bring
1890
01:50:33.399 --> 01:50:35.819
on a special guest for the second half of the podcast.
1891
01:50:36.020 --> 01:50:38.579
Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone else who works in
1892
01:50:38.600 --> 01:50:41.279
the business. Other times it's a guest analyst who brings
1893
01:50:41.319 --> 01:50:44.560
their specialized point of view on a particular key topic
1894
01:50:44.600 --> 01:50:47.659
in the news. Recent guests have included Bronson Reed from
1895
01:50:47.920 --> 01:50:50.800
WWE and PCO. One of my areas of specialty is
1896
01:50:50.819 --> 01:50:53.279
the Japan wrestling scene, so I often cover a big
1897
01:50:53.340 --> 01:50:57.590
topic from Japan with PW Torch's own Alan Farrell, Kelly Wells,
1898
01:50:57.829 --> 01:51:00.710
and Chris Lansdell. I don't just cover the news. I
1899
01:51:00.750 --> 01:51:02.750
don't just riff on the news or give a standard
1900
01:51:02.789 --> 01:51:05.649
hot take. I'll bring my decades of studying this industry
1901
01:51:05.689 --> 01:51:09.359
and talking one-on-one with dozens of wrestling promoters to each
1902
01:51:09.420 --> 01:51:12.680
week's show so you understand not just what's happening, but
1903
01:51:12.699 --> 01:51:13.920
the context of why.
1904
01:51:14.140 --> 01:51:15.079
Get ahead of the news.
1905
01:51:15.520 --> 01:51:18.819
Get ahead of the pack with Ratican Worldwide only at
1906
01:51:18.859 --> 01:51:20.880
PWTorch VIP.
1907
01:51:23.270 --> 01:51:27.350
Well, let's talk about you. And, you know, you look great.
1908
01:51:28.369 --> 01:51:30.970
You've got this new book out, Through the Shattered Glass,
1909
01:51:30.989 --> 01:51:34.289
that you can find at Amazon that people are buying.
1910
01:51:34.329 --> 01:51:37.680
And I've heard a lot of good things about it.
1911
01:51:37.720 --> 01:51:43.579
So that's exciting. I guess let's start with you. What
1912
01:51:43.699 --> 01:51:47.279
was your life like? Describe yourself growing up in England.
1913
01:51:47.939 --> 01:51:51.260
Were you a girly girl? Were you a tomboy? What
1914
01:51:51.439 --> 01:51:52.300
kind of girl were you?
1915
01:51:54.560 --> 01:51:59.869
I wrote extensively on my childhood and it's a bit
1916
01:52:00.069 --> 01:52:03.229
of a sad story because my father died when I
1917
01:52:03.270 --> 01:52:07.210
was seven and my mom actually had a lot of
1918
01:52:07.270 --> 01:52:12.029
problems with alcohol and I was a little bit of
1919
01:52:12.149 --> 01:52:17.350
a street kid. Um, but about the age, uh, 10
1920
01:52:17.350 --> 01:52:20.880
years old, unfortunately we did get, have to get put
1921
01:52:20.939 --> 01:52:23.699
into a, um, I guess, I don't know what they
1922
01:52:23.720 --> 01:52:26.180
call it in the States, but it would be like
1923
01:52:26.199 --> 01:52:29.020
where social services be kind of like an orphanage. I
1924
01:52:29.039 --> 01:52:32.680
don't know if you call it that or a home, but, um,
1925
01:52:32.939 --> 01:52:36.720
I kind of had to live in this home, but
1926
01:52:37.239 --> 01:52:41.500
in a way, um, after initially trying to run away,
1927
01:52:41.520 --> 01:52:46.750
I actually had the routine that I needed. We, we
1928
01:52:46.789 --> 01:52:51.130
would always, um, have meals at set times. And I
1929
01:52:51.170 --> 01:52:53.189
know that it should be normal, but it wasn't to
1930
01:52:53.229 --> 01:52:56.210
me as a child. And, um, you know, I got
1931
01:52:56.270 --> 01:52:59.630
to learn to swim and play tennis and, and I
1932
01:52:59.689 --> 01:53:04.149
lived there for a few years. And then my mom
1933
01:53:04.189 --> 01:53:07.359
was still quite ill. She's okay now, but She was
1934
01:53:07.430 --> 01:53:12.729
quite ill with alcohol. And my childhood was quite hard.
1935
01:53:13.109 --> 01:53:14.970
But I used to be like a bit of a
1936
01:53:15.069 --> 01:53:17.909
normal teen. I used to like to go to concerts
1937
01:53:19.109 --> 01:53:22.829
with my friends and the music of the 70s, like
1938
01:53:22.890 --> 01:53:28.149
David Bowie and Queen. I would follow all these bands
1939
01:53:28.229 --> 01:53:30.590
and go to all these bands. And one of my
1940
01:53:30.630 --> 01:53:31.810
friends who was.
1941
01:53:33.449 --> 01:53:36.750
Always tagging along with me. Her dad was a wrestling fan.
1942
01:53:36.770 --> 01:53:39.699
I'd never been to wrestling before in my life, but
1943
01:53:39.739 --> 01:53:43.000
he got ill. And I went to my very first
1944
01:53:43.260 --> 01:53:47.399
wrestling match in 1978, I think. And that's where I
1945
01:53:47.439 --> 01:53:50.840
met Chris. My childhood was quite sad.
1946
01:53:51.619 --> 01:53:55.380
You got involved in the whole world of sports scene then?
1947
01:53:57.399 --> 01:54:00.359
Yes, I did, because Chris had only been working for about...
1948
01:54:02.010 --> 01:54:06.689
About a year. And he was a black belt in judo.
1949
01:54:06.729 --> 01:54:08.010
As a matter of fact, he was on the British
1950
01:54:08.069 --> 01:54:11.970
squad and his brother was an Olympic silver medalist. So
1951
01:54:12.010 --> 01:54:16.489
he was high up on the judo, but he wanted
1952
01:54:16.600 --> 01:54:23.420
to get into wrestling. And, you know, what had happened
1953
01:54:23.460 --> 01:54:26.939
was we had started dating and I started running his
1954
01:54:27.000 --> 01:54:30.109
fan club. And then he... he came up with the
1955
01:54:30.189 --> 01:54:33.409
idea that I could be his second because they have
1956
01:54:33.449 --> 01:54:37.550
different rules in England where they have rounds. And so
1957
01:54:37.609 --> 01:54:40.189
it's like a boxing second where you come in and
1958
01:54:40.829 --> 01:54:43.949
you give the wrestler the water and that you don't
1959
01:54:44.189 --> 01:54:47.619
have the interference in the matches like you do out there.
1960
01:54:47.640 --> 01:54:55.039
And I started traveling as Chrissy's valet, if you want,
1961
01:54:55.659 --> 01:54:59.529
in England. 79, I believe. And we got a lot
1962
01:54:59.550 --> 01:55:02.630
of publicity for it because it wasn't really anything that
1963
01:55:02.829 --> 01:55:08.590
you would see back then in the English scene. Because
1964
01:55:09.869 --> 01:55:14.869
you were young and attractive? Yeah.
1965
01:55:14.909 --> 01:55:19.409
Yeah, they probably had more like a corner-type, boxing-type second
1966
01:55:19.449 --> 01:55:27.149
as opposed to a young, attractive, young blonde. Yeah. Talk
1967
01:55:27.189 --> 01:55:29.930
about the world of sport and how big was it
1968
01:55:29.970 --> 01:55:32.930
at that time period in England? You mentioned, obviously, Big
1969
01:55:32.989 --> 01:55:37.569
Daddy and Kendo Nagasaki. You mentioned Dynamite Kid, Davey Boy Smith.
1970
01:55:38.930 --> 01:55:40.369
How big was it at that point?
1971
01:55:41.550 --> 01:55:46.130
It was massive. Everybody watched wrestling on a Saturday afternoon.
1972
01:55:46.689 --> 01:55:50.909
And even the Queen would be a fan of watching wrestling.
1973
01:55:50.970 --> 01:55:57.220
It was just awesome. I mean, everybody... uh, used to
1974
01:55:57.279 --> 01:56:00.479
love going to the show. And obviously it was sad that,
1975
01:56:00.680 --> 01:56:04.460
that it all ended. But, um, you know, the guys
1976
01:56:04.500 --> 01:56:08.439
were really tough. They really protected the, the industry in
1977
01:56:08.479 --> 01:56:12.670
this country back then. And, um, you know, I, I
1978
01:56:12.689 --> 01:56:17.050
just was so intimidated when I first started being the
1979
01:56:17.090 --> 01:56:19.470
only girl hanging out with these guys in the dressing room,
1980
01:56:19.550 --> 01:56:23.289
but everybody was really sweet to me. And, um, but
1981
01:56:23.350 --> 01:56:27.409
it had a massive following and, um, You know, sometimes
1982
01:56:27.489 --> 01:56:31.149
it's quite sad that these guys are quite forgotten because,
1983
01:56:31.680 --> 01:56:34.399
I mean, they had to do three, I say three rounds,
1984
01:56:34.439 --> 01:56:37.380
I think it was about 12 rounds. But there would
1985
01:56:37.479 --> 01:56:40.699
be several rounds that you think about, they'd have to
1986
01:56:40.739 --> 01:56:45.449
remember three different finishes. And they were tough, but it
1987
01:56:45.489 --> 01:56:48.210
was more like a sport and it didn't have any
1988
01:56:48.229 --> 01:56:52.350
of the soap opera kind of storyline like in the States.
1989
01:56:53.090 --> 01:56:55.250
So it was really like a sport.
1990
01:56:56.420 --> 01:57:00.149
How did the fans react in England versus fan reaction
1991
01:57:00.229 --> 01:57:01.210
in the United States?
1992
01:57:02.590 --> 01:57:07.750
It was really like they clapped. Just like when they
1993
01:57:07.789 --> 01:57:11.479
did a high spot or something, everybody clapped. And the
1994
01:57:11.529 --> 01:57:16.579
States would be more into it. But, you know, it
1995
01:57:16.600 --> 01:57:19.699
was kind of like more quiet. They were more reserved.
1996
01:57:21.409 --> 01:57:25.010
Now, what was it like when you, let me just
1997
01:57:25.029 --> 01:57:26.810
jump in briefly here for a second. Like when you
1998
01:57:26.850 --> 01:57:29.710
came to the United States and saw, you mentioned the
1999
01:57:29.750 --> 01:57:34.310
world of sport was more athletically based. What were your
2000
01:57:34.350 --> 01:57:37.939
reactions to the American style with more cheating and outside
2001
01:57:37.949 --> 01:57:43.159
interference and more soap opera type drama and effects?
2002
01:57:44.680 --> 01:57:49.140
I thought it was a lot more fun. A lot
2003
01:57:49.180 --> 01:57:52.579
more fun, you know. When I got to work in
2004
01:57:52.619 --> 01:57:59.180
world class as a heel and my character was Chris
2005
01:57:59.680 --> 01:58:03.680
had come up with this evil ex-wife angle and he'd
2006
01:58:03.699 --> 01:58:06.439
say I'll say this say that and oh my god
2007
01:58:06.840 --> 01:58:11.279
they used to coax on me and chant all these
2008
01:58:11.579 --> 01:58:15.140
really bad things hey but um obviously that was meant
2009
01:58:15.159 --> 01:58:19.239
to be a compliment but uh yeah it was it
2010
01:58:19.270 --> 01:58:20.810
was great it was a lot of fun especially at
2011
01:58:20.829 --> 01:58:23.829
the sportatorium that place was just so cool.
2012
01:58:25.880 --> 01:58:28.739
Yeah, and we can talk about that. By the way,
2013
01:58:28.760 --> 01:58:31.520
if you want to call up and talk with Jeannie Clark,
2014
01:58:31.579 --> 01:58:38.470
Lady Blossom, you can do so at 515-605-9345. You can
2015
01:58:38.489 --> 01:58:42.890
also email at pwtorchlivecast at gmail.com, or you can tweet
2016
01:58:42.909 --> 01:58:45.920
me at Twitter at Jim Valley, and we'll talk with
2017
01:58:46.140 --> 01:58:48.600
the lovely Jeannie Clark. We'll get into some more of
2018
01:58:48.619 --> 01:58:51.119
your history, but let's take a phone call or two
2019
01:58:51.159 --> 01:58:54.729
right now for Jeannie Clark. Let's go to... 240-240, area
2020
01:58:54.970 --> 01:58:57.869
code 240. You're on the live cast. What's your name
2021
01:58:57.890 --> 01:59:02.039
and where are you calling from? This is Ryan from Cumberland, Maryland. Ryan,
2022
01:59:02.079 --> 01:59:04.579
what do you got for Judy Clark this morning? My
2023
01:59:04.619 --> 01:59:07.699
question is, what's the loudest conspiracy theory you've heard from
2024
01:59:07.739 --> 01:59:09.960
Billy Jack Hayes, and is there any truth to what
2025
01:59:09.979 --> 01:59:14.350
he says in these conspiracy theories? I can answer you
2026
01:59:14.369 --> 01:59:18.100
that question. No. Anyway, go ahead, Jeannie. For those who
2027
01:59:18.140 --> 01:59:21.060
don't know, before we get into it, Jeannie came, we'll
2028
01:59:21.079 --> 01:59:24.319
get into her career, but she logged some time when
2029
01:59:24.380 --> 01:59:28.079
I was a kid in Portland wrestling. And, you know,
2030
01:59:28.119 --> 01:59:31.100
she hasn't mentioned this yet, but she was never actually
2031
01:59:31.159 --> 01:59:33.239
married to Chris Adams. That was just an angle, but
2032
01:59:33.270 --> 01:59:35.930
they were together for a long time and have a
2033
01:59:35.970 --> 01:59:41.039
child together. But anyway, After Chris, she was married for
2034
01:59:41.060 --> 01:59:45.670
a time to infamous Northwest wrestler Billy Jack Haynes. But
2035
01:59:45.710 --> 01:59:49.930
your experience with Billy Jack was different than the persona
2036
01:59:49.970 --> 01:59:51.229
that we know now, right, Jeannie?
2037
01:59:52.689 --> 01:59:55.939
Yeah, because we're going back to 83, and I don't
2038
01:59:56.020 --> 02:00:00.180
think he had been wrestling that long. So all this
2039
02:00:00.239 --> 02:00:04.649
stuff that's happened... over the last few years. I'm not
2040
02:00:04.750 --> 02:00:10.720
really aware of any of these lawsuits, et cetera. I
2041
02:00:10.760 --> 02:00:14.560
don't know anything about that. But at that time, now,
2042
02:00:15.079 --> 02:00:18.600
you know, Chris and I, we were a couple. The
2043
02:00:18.640 --> 02:00:22.579
boyfriend-girlfriend wasn't married. We'd been together five years. We came
2044
02:00:22.800 --> 02:00:30.300
from England to Los Angeles together, and we were staying
2045
02:00:30.340 --> 02:00:33.880
in a real glamorous part of L.A. at the time
2046
02:00:33.920 --> 02:00:37.119
for us. Remember, we were really young in Santa Monica and,
2047
02:00:37.600 --> 02:00:43.500
you know, we had the weather and the beach and
2048
02:00:43.800 --> 02:00:49.439
we were in awe of it. And, you know, we
2049
02:00:49.510 --> 02:00:54.090
had no money because Chris only got like $ 40, I think,
2050
02:00:54.310 --> 02:00:58.869
for the week. And I ended up working and we
2051
02:00:58.909 --> 02:01:04.819
both managed to survive. with me helping out with the money.
2052
02:01:04.840 --> 02:01:09.800
And when all that folded and we moved up to Portland,
2053
02:01:10.460 --> 02:01:13.720
I think along the way, Chris said, I'm not going
2054
02:01:13.739 --> 02:01:15.579
to like it in Portland. And I think what he
2055
02:01:15.619 --> 02:01:19.659
meant was he liked the glamorous kind of lifestyle of
2056
02:01:20.430 --> 02:01:23.170
living on the beach, you've got the dolls in the bikinis,
2057
02:01:23.289 --> 02:01:28.710
and you could walk anywhere. And when we got to Portland,
2058
02:01:29.890 --> 02:01:32.100
he didn't think he'd like it, but What I noticed
2059
02:01:32.159 --> 02:01:36.310
about the Portland territory was that Chris, bearing in mind,
2060
02:01:36.350 --> 02:01:41.649
he was only about 24, he wasn't used to as
2061
02:01:41.770 --> 02:01:45.550
much female attention. I don't recall it in the world
2062
02:01:45.590 --> 02:01:48.760
of sport, and I don't recall it in LA, but
2063
02:01:49.100 --> 02:01:53.420
there were a lot of girls, and Chris obviously was young,
2064
02:01:53.460 --> 02:01:58.539
and he got tempted, and basically, Chris, if you think
2065
02:01:58.579 --> 02:02:01.909
about me, I was working every day, and la and
2066
02:02:02.069 --> 02:02:05.479
when i got to portland i had no sort of
2067
02:02:05.520 --> 02:02:09.359
independent making any money and i had no job and
2068
02:02:09.380 --> 02:02:12.439
i had no green card to get a job and
2069
02:02:12.619 --> 02:02:15.399
um i didn't have a car so it was very
2070
02:02:16.449 --> 02:02:22.130
very much isolated but i think with chris having all
2071
02:02:22.149 --> 02:02:25.090
this attention he started to act on it and um
2072
02:02:25.350 --> 02:02:31.579
constantly i had women calling the house and You know,
2073
02:02:32.340 --> 02:02:36.479
he was cheating on me, just to put it bluntly.
2074
02:02:36.510 --> 02:02:41.029
And I had dealt with that for a long time,
2075
02:02:41.109 --> 02:02:47.409
and it kept recurring and recurring. And I became... felt betrayed.
2076
02:02:47.430 --> 02:02:51.210
And I became very lonely and very depressed with it.
2077
02:02:52.390 --> 02:02:55.069
Well, you also were a young mother, too. You also
2078
02:02:55.109 --> 02:02:55.770
were a young mother, right?
2079
02:02:55.800 --> 02:02:57.640
And I was a young mom, yeah.
2080
02:02:59.479 --> 02:02:59.649
And....
2081
02:03:01.050 --> 02:03:05.109
You know, Chris, he would go to the arena and
2082
02:03:05.149 --> 02:03:08.670
not come home all night long. And I would... Back then,
2083
02:03:08.710 --> 02:03:11.949
we didn't have, you know, mobile phones and all of that,
2084
02:03:12.029 --> 02:03:14.899
so I would sit there and have to worry and worry,
2085
02:03:14.939 --> 02:03:17.659
and he'd come home, like, a couple of days later,
2086
02:03:17.720 --> 02:03:21.680
and he'd been out partying. There was a guy by
2087
02:03:21.720 --> 02:03:25.239
the name of Ralph, who the boys called Dirty Ralph,
2088
02:03:25.960 --> 02:03:31.239
because he was, like, supplying them with, like... I think
2089
02:03:31.279 --> 02:03:35.060
it was more pot than anything. And he always had
2090
02:03:35.100 --> 02:03:39.880
loads of women around him and cocaine, etc. And Chris
2091
02:03:39.920 --> 02:03:46.659
kind of got to where he was just neglecting me, really.
2092
02:03:46.680 --> 02:03:51.609
And I was left sitting at home. I had left
2093
02:03:51.649 --> 02:03:56.789
with no money, you know, and I had no friends.
2094
02:03:58.170 --> 02:04:01.880
I had no support system, no family. And it was very,
2095
02:04:01.920 --> 02:04:05.640
very difficult because as much as he kept saying sorry
2096
02:04:06.119 --> 02:04:08.399
and I believed him, then he would do it again.
2097
02:04:08.460 --> 02:04:11.340
And actually, I'd gone home to the UK because I
2098
02:04:11.420 --> 02:04:17.100
needed to go to a funeral. And when I came back,
2099
02:04:17.119 --> 02:04:20.590
this one particular girl was calling the house, calling the house.
2100
02:04:20.689 --> 02:04:24.649
And one day, because I was so lonely and I
2101
02:04:24.710 --> 02:04:27.510
had nobody, I remember Billy, I think he was visiting
2102
02:04:27.550 --> 02:04:31.729
Tommy Rogers. And I just got to saying to him
2103
02:04:32.510 --> 02:04:37.350
how sad I was. And he said, he actually said
2104
02:04:37.390 --> 02:04:42.050
to me, well, I often don't understand. I've said to Adams,
2105
02:04:42.090 --> 02:04:45.439
why do you, this is his words, you know, how
2106
02:04:45.479 --> 02:04:51.720
come you treat Jeannie like that? And Chris apparently, what
2107
02:04:51.739 --> 02:04:54.640
Billy told me, Chris said, well, it's a little bit
2108
02:04:54.699 --> 02:04:58.939
like having a steak every night. Every once in a while,
2109
02:04:59.300 --> 02:05:01.119
you would like a piece of chicken. It was really
2110
02:05:01.140 --> 02:05:06.329
insulting to me, really hurt my feelings. And then Billy said, but,
2111
02:05:06.989 --> 02:05:10.989
you know, I would be happy with that. And basically,
2112
02:05:11.510 --> 02:05:14.369
I told him I couldn't even move back to the
2113
02:05:14.510 --> 02:05:18.680
UK because I had no money for a flight, had
2114
02:05:18.720 --> 02:05:24.119
no way of, no options, really. And then he said
2115
02:05:24.159 --> 02:05:28.460
to me, he would help me out. And at that time,
2116
02:05:29.039 --> 02:05:33.960
you know, he was nice to me. That's how it happened, really.
2117
02:05:33.979 --> 02:05:38.819
I was just like very lonely and I didn't feel
2118
02:05:38.840 --> 02:05:43.020
I had any options and I certainly wasn't controlling Chris
2119
02:05:43.550 --> 02:05:46.689
in as much as he was just going off and
2120
02:05:47.270 --> 02:05:51.989
doing his own thing. And I felt really betrayed by Chris.
2121
02:05:52.390 --> 02:05:54.449
We took a few years before Chris and I had
2122
02:05:54.470 --> 02:05:57.560
to become friends again. which we obviously did because we
2123
02:05:57.579 --> 02:06:01.319
did the angle. But at that time, all I remember
2124
02:06:01.359 --> 02:06:07.510
was just feeling very, very, very hurt by Chris and
2125
02:06:07.689 --> 02:06:12.909
angry and resentful. And Billy was like, well, I'll help you.
2126
02:06:15.789 --> 02:06:17.630
iPhone users, if you're listening to us on the Native
2127
02:06:17.670 --> 02:06:21.689
Podcast app on your iPhone, You can unlock our commercial-free
2128
02:06:21.729 --> 02:06:26.670
versions of our free shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts.
2129
02:06:26.689 --> 02:06:29.229
You'll see a charcoal gray logo that says PWTorch VIP
2130
02:06:29.310 --> 02:06:31.300
on it. Click on that. There's some free samples of
2131
02:06:31.350 --> 02:06:34.939
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2132
02:06:34.960 --> 02:06:38.180
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2133
02:06:38.199 --> 02:06:41.859
shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts and clicking on
2134
02:06:41.890 --> 02:06:45.210
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2135
02:06:45.250 --> 02:06:47.710
And after that, you can become a VIP member using
2136
02:06:47.729 --> 02:06:50.930
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2137
02:06:50.989 --> 02:06:54.590
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2138
02:06:54.649 --> 02:06:58.329
including our post-pay-per-view roundtables, the Wade Keller news bulletins, everything
2139
02:06:58.350 --> 02:07:00.489
with Rich and Wade, the fix that I host with
2140
02:07:00.510 --> 02:07:03.979
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2141
02:07:03.989 --> 02:07:06.199
search PWTorch in your Apple Podcast app.
2142
02:07:09.729 --> 02:07:12.390
Ryan, to get back to your original point, to put
2143
02:07:12.430 --> 02:07:18.119
a bow on it, Billy Jack legitimately came from the
2144
02:07:18.159 --> 02:07:20.039
wrong side of the track, so to speak. The way
2145
02:07:20.060 --> 02:07:23.039
people have explained it to me that knew him and
2146
02:07:23.119 --> 02:07:26.279
knew him in that era was that he was legitimately
2147
02:07:26.319 --> 02:07:32.270
trying to turn his life around. Sometimes best laid plans
2148
02:07:32.470 --> 02:07:35.069
go to waste. It sounds like he was very nice
2149
02:07:35.090 --> 02:07:39.310
to Jeannie, but then Over time, things just sort of
2150
02:07:39.350 --> 02:07:43.859
reverted back to the way he was. And as far
2151
02:07:43.920 --> 02:07:51.039
as his infamous conspiracy videos and shoot videos and stuff,
2152
02:07:51.699 --> 02:07:55.529
I think those are just a way to get attention
2153
02:07:55.750 --> 02:07:58.810
and a way to make money and seem relevant in
2154
02:07:58.869 --> 02:07:59.970
today's society.
2155
02:08:00.579 --> 02:08:00.819
Age.
2156
02:08:01.260 --> 02:08:05.239
I haven't seen those. You have?
2157
02:08:05.300 --> 02:08:08.739
Yeah. I have not seen those. I'm not aware of
2158
02:08:09.399 --> 02:08:15.590
any conspiracies. I've just heard ramblings of a lawsuit, so
2159
02:08:15.699 --> 02:08:19.090
I don't actually know all that's going on. But, you know,
2160
02:08:19.130 --> 02:08:22.090
we're talking 30 years ago that I knew him, so
2161
02:08:22.130 --> 02:08:27.810
it's not anything I know from 23 years old, you know.
2162
02:08:28.340 --> 02:08:30.479
So, I mean, I remember going to the Portland Sports
2163
02:08:30.539 --> 02:08:33.439
Arena in that era, and one of the things, one
2164
02:08:33.460 --> 02:08:36.020
of the vivid memories that I have, you know, Tommy Rogers,
2165
02:08:36.060 --> 02:08:38.899
known from the Fantastics, who unfortunately passed away a few
2166
02:08:38.920 --> 02:08:45.010
years ago, very young, good-looking guy, tremendous abs, like I said, very,
2167
02:08:45.130 --> 02:08:50.310
very good-looking young man, and... I remember him going, you know,
2168
02:08:50.359 --> 02:08:54.229
Portland Sports Arena, kind of your typical grungy arena. The
2169
02:08:54.289 --> 02:08:59.390
fans would, you know, there wasn't much, weren't many barricades
2170
02:08:59.449 --> 02:09:02.989
or any protections for the wrestlers. And the heels would
2171
02:09:03.029 --> 02:09:06.819
come down and they'd have like security around them to
2172
02:09:06.859 --> 02:09:09.579
keep them from getting hurt. But I remember guys like
2173
02:09:09.619 --> 02:09:14.079
Tommy Rogers in particular and Chris Adams, they would get mobbed.
2174
02:09:14.399 --> 02:09:18.359
by female fans uh coming down that's right to the
2175
02:09:18.399 --> 02:09:21.020
ringside area i mean you could barely see them coming
2176
02:09:21.060 --> 02:09:23.829
through the crowd from from all of the fans and
2177
02:09:23.890 --> 02:09:28.130
all of the women in particular just just mobbing them so.
2178
02:09:27.989 --> 02:09:32.090
You can imagine you know chris having all that attention
2179
02:09:32.149 --> 02:09:35.569
for the first time and how much of a temptation
2180
02:09:35.609 --> 02:09:37.970
that will be but you can also put you on
2181
02:09:37.989 --> 02:09:41.229
the other foot and say i was his girlfriend and
2182
02:09:41.329 --> 02:09:43.949
I was the mother of his child who was used
2183
02:09:43.970 --> 02:09:48.310
to be very independent working and suddenly he's now going
2184
02:09:48.350 --> 02:09:50.109
with all the girls at the arena and you know
2185
02:09:50.149 --> 02:09:53.180
how humiliating that was because I would go to they
2186
02:09:53.220 --> 02:09:56.159
had some spot shows up there they had like um
2187
02:09:56.180 --> 02:10:03.159
uh Salem Eugene anyway every say it was the same
2188
02:10:03.279 --> 02:10:07.279
show once a week every like Portland was a Friday
2189
02:10:07.340 --> 02:10:10.369
and And I would go to those shows, and I
2190
02:10:10.409 --> 02:10:14.189
would be sitting there while these girls were sleeping with
2191
02:10:14.229 --> 02:10:16.930
my boyfriend. So just to get an idea of how
2192
02:10:17.470 --> 02:10:22.170
humiliating and devastating that was for me, then I took
2193
02:10:22.289 --> 02:10:28.020
the offer of Billy Jack because I had no other option.
2194
02:10:28.720 --> 02:10:31.180
And he was nice. He was nice to me. So
2195
02:10:31.380 --> 02:10:32.840
it is what.
2196
02:10:34.279 --> 02:10:34.579
It is.
2197
02:10:36.590 --> 02:10:40.289
You know, and at that time, that's how it was.
2198
02:10:40.869 --> 02:10:45.609
And it didn't last. But, you know, I didn't have
2199
02:10:46.390 --> 02:10:50.829
no big fallout with Billy. It just wasn't enough love,
2200
02:10:51.109 --> 02:10:54.069
I suppose. But I had some feelings.
2201
02:10:55.409 --> 02:10:55.670
Sure.
2202
02:10:55.689 --> 02:10:57.470
Well, it must have been hard for you because, I mean,
2203
02:10:57.489 --> 02:11:01.810
you were, in my opinion, probably, you know, I would probably,
2204
02:11:01.850 --> 02:11:06.819
I'm sure, you know, much younger. much more attractive than
2205
02:11:06.880 --> 02:11:09.939
probably most, I'm sure all of the women that were
2206
02:11:09.960 --> 02:11:11.939
throwing themselves at Chris, and that's got to be hard
2207
02:11:11.979 --> 02:11:14.979
on your self-esteem going, you know, look at me. I
2208
02:11:15.020 --> 02:11:17.659
think I look good, and what's wrong with me? I
2209
02:11:17.699 --> 02:11:19.159
mentioned that's got to be really.
2210
02:11:20.500 --> 02:11:26.079
Hard. Very soul-destroying and hard on your self-esteem. But I
2211
02:11:26.180 --> 02:11:32.899
think looking back and over Chris, um, with his wife, Tony.
2212
02:11:32.920 --> 02:11:36.199
I mean, it was a pattern again. And now Tony
2213
02:11:36.319 --> 02:11:41.340
is a beauty, was a very, very beautiful girl. Absolutely gorgeous.
2214
02:11:41.880 --> 02:11:45.779
And unfortunately I would see Chris doing the same. So
2215
02:11:45.840 --> 02:11:48.439
I think it was just, Chris couldn't stay with one
2216
02:11:48.479 --> 02:11:52.670
girl or something that, but the, you know, he just
2217
02:11:53.850 --> 02:11:58.810
messed around all the time with different women from the show. So,
2218
02:11:59.340 --> 02:12:03.060
Even though I became friends with Chris because we had
2219
02:12:03.119 --> 02:12:06.800
a daughter and we were amicable, I wouldn't have wanted
2220
02:12:06.840 --> 02:12:11.939
to be the woman in his life because he was
2221
02:12:11.970 --> 02:12:15.550
a cheat. That's the only way I could say it.
2222
02:12:16.149 --> 02:12:20.229
You know, I'm friends with some people who partied with
2223
02:12:20.289 --> 02:12:22.810
Chris back then. And the way they described Chris was,
2224
02:12:26.689 --> 02:12:29.430
you know, very nice when he was sober, very polite,
2225
02:12:30.050 --> 02:12:33.689
very proper. And then, you know, you get him drunk
2226
02:12:33.710 --> 02:12:37.569
or anything else. And he just, he just is a
2227
02:12:37.640 --> 02:12:42.239
different person. And another friend of mine who had his wife,
2228
02:12:42.859 --> 02:12:44.739
they would go out and hang out with the wrestlers
2229
02:12:44.800 --> 02:12:47.260
and things. And his wife was also very attractive. And
2230
02:12:47.300 --> 02:12:50.510
he said, you know, it was a regular occurrence to
2231
02:12:50.569 --> 02:12:54.890
kind of chew Chris away from his wife as far as,
2232
02:12:54.920 --> 02:13:00.010
you know, he was always chasing skirts. That's correct. Yeah,
2233
02:13:00.090 --> 02:13:04.689
you mentioned that the party scene in Portland was pretty strong.
2234
02:13:06.510 --> 02:13:12.039
Yes, yeah. The very first time I ever used any
2235
02:13:12.739 --> 02:13:18.659
mind-altering substance was Tommy Rogers and his wife Cindy at
2236
02:13:18.699 --> 02:13:22.770
the time were living a couple apartments down from us,
2237
02:13:23.010 --> 02:13:27.970
and they have, like, really strong weed there, I guess,
2238
02:13:28.170 --> 02:13:31.600
I never smoked it in my life, honestly, and one
2239
02:13:31.640 --> 02:13:36.500
day we were at Tommy's apartment, and he had this bong, like,
2240
02:13:36.520 --> 02:13:39.680
this really big bong, and he said, oh, take a bit,
2241
02:13:39.720 --> 02:13:41.819
you know, and I don't know if I felt pressured,
2242
02:13:41.920 --> 02:13:46.649
or anyway, I took, and I, I actually had, I
2243
02:13:46.750 --> 02:13:50.189
actually went home and I couldn't shift this feeling, and
2244
02:13:50.210 --> 02:13:53.770
I started to panic, and I actually called 911, and
2245
02:13:56.229 --> 02:13:58.579
an ambulance came, but I thought I was going to die,
2246
02:13:58.600 --> 02:14:04.340
because I'd never taken anything in my life, and it
2247
02:14:04.380 --> 02:14:09.130
was too strong for me, and I honestly panicked so bad,
2248
02:14:09.390 --> 02:14:12.829
and I just remember Tommy and Chris with these ambulance
2249
02:14:12.890 --> 02:14:16.899
lights outside the apartment in Portland, and They're like, what
2250
02:14:16.939 --> 02:14:18.699
the hell is going on? And it was me. I'd
2251
02:14:18.819 --> 02:14:21.159
called 911 because I thought I was going to die.
2252
02:14:21.180 --> 02:14:25.579
And the guy comes in. He puts oxygen mask on
2253
02:14:25.619 --> 02:14:28.279
my face. And Chris and Tommy, it's OK. It's OK.
2254
02:14:28.590 --> 02:14:31.430
But they never did call the police. So nobody got
2255
02:14:31.470 --> 02:14:36.329
in trouble. But yeah, so that was the very first
2256
02:14:36.409 --> 02:14:43.840
time that I'd ever experienced any drugs of sorts there.
2257
02:14:44.890 --> 02:14:47.630
We're talking with Jeannie Clark. She's got a new book
2258
02:14:47.689 --> 02:14:49.470
out called Through the Shattered Glass. You can find it
2259
02:14:49.510 --> 02:14:52.020
at Amazon. Hey, before we move on from Portland, I
2260
02:14:52.060 --> 02:14:54.380
do want to talk about another theme that we talk
2261
02:14:54.420 --> 02:14:56.180
about on the show since I grew up with Portland
2262
02:14:56.199 --> 02:15:01.199
Wrestling is the infamous Bomber Hotel, which we've talked about
2263
02:15:01.279 --> 02:15:02.739
on the show is one of the places where the
2264
02:15:02.760 --> 02:15:07.539
wrestlers stayed at. And you actually lived there for a spell.
2265
02:15:07.579 --> 02:15:09.920
What were your impressions of the Bomber?
2266
02:15:11.399 --> 02:15:14.579
Not for very long. But, you know, it was kind
2267
02:15:14.619 --> 02:15:18.460
of cool because it had a bit of an atmosphere
2268
02:15:18.520 --> 02:15:21.880
to it, you know. But all I remember is I
2269
02:15:21.920 --> 02:15:24.159
had to walk everywhere from there and I had a
2270
02:15:24.199 --> 02:15:29.880
big plan and I had Jade. But I actually, you know,
2271
02:15:30.020 --> 02:15:34.729
I kind of like could stay anywhere. We stayed worse.
2272
02:15:35.329 --> 02:15:38.529
We were at the Flamingo West in Los Angeles in
2273
02:15:38.609 --> 02:15:43.340
a studio apartment with no air conditioning. in that heat, and,
2274
02:15:43.840 --> 02:15:47.079
you know, you just kind of manage when you're young. So,
2275
02:15:47.739 --> 02:15:53.119
but you told me in Charlotte they've not got that
2276
02:15:53.159 --> 02:15:55.340
there now, huh?
2277
02:15:55.380 --> 02:15:57.939
Well, the building is there, but the plane is gone.
2278
02:15:57.979 --> 02:15:59.819
They had a B-52 or whatever.
2279
02:15:59.840 --> 02:16:01.500
Oh, I remember that.
2280
02:16:01.539 --> 02:16:04.550
Yeah, that was right out front there, sort of a marking,
2281
02:16:05.329 --> 02:16:07.869
and they've moved that and they're restoring it, but the
2282
02:16:08.109 --> 02:16:12.630
bomber facility, the structure is gone. is still there. And
2283
02:16:12.670 --> 02:16:13.970
that was, I mean, it was sort of like a,
2284
02:16:14.010 --> 02:16:16.189
like a frat house for the, for the wrestlers, as
2285
02:16:16.250 --> 02:16:21.010
far as hanging out, drinking, barbecuing, partying. And, uh, it
2286
02:16:21.050 --> 02:16:28.500
was just, it's very much, uh, a legendary place in Portland. Yeah. Uh,
2287
02:16:28.539 --> 02:16:30.720
let's go to the phone line. Let's go to a, uh,
2288
02:16:30.800 --> 02:16:34.799
another phone call. Let's go to area code to eight, six, two, eight, six, two.
2289
02:16:34.840 --> 02:16:39.540
You're on Jeannie Clark. Who's this? And where are you calling? Eight, six, two.
2290
02:16:39.569 --> 02:16:39.790
Hello.
2291
02:16:39.850 --> 02:16:43.329
Hello. Hello?
2292
02:16:43.680 --> 02:16:44.020
Anybody?
2293
02:16:44.229 --> 02:16:48.649
Anybody? Oh, well, we'll put 862 on hold then and
2294
02:16:48.709 --> 02:16:55.530
come back. Okay. Well, so let's talk about, obviously, you
2295
02:16:55.569 --> 02:16:59.530
leave Portland. You talk about you're in Florida. You're out
2296
02:16:59.549 --> 02:17:02.270
of the business for a while. How did you get
2297
02:17:02.389 --> 02:17:05.290
sucked back in? How did Dallas happen and the whole
2298
02:17:05.809 --> 02:17:10.170
stunning Steve, Jeannie Clark, Chris Adams, quote, unquote, ex-wife thing happened?
2299
02:17:11.790 --> 02:17:16.069
Yeah, okay, so Chris and I split up in Portland,
2300
02:17:16.170 --> 02:17:20.899
and I married Billy, and I had a green card,
2301
02:17:20.959 --> 02:17:26.540
and we were good friends. But we wasn't able to
2302
02:17:26.840 --> 02:17:32.090
have a proper relationship because it just didn't work out
2303
02:17:32.149 --> 02:17:38.590
that way. And Billy got picked up, I think, in Florida,
2304
02:17:38.610 --> 02:17:44.030
where Dusty Rhodes was, And Chris went on to World Class,
2305
02:17:44.110 --> 02:17:48.309
where he started with the Von Eriks. And I went
2306
02:17:48.409 --> 02:17:50.760
off to England for six months. to try and get
2307
02:17:50.819 --> 02:17:55.219
my head together. Cause, um, I, I loved the States.
2308
02:17:55.420 --> 02:17:57.889
I knew I loved it there and I did not
2309
02:17:57.950 --> 02:18:00.989
want to go back and live in England. But, um,
2310
02:18:01.569 --> 02:18:03.829
I went back for a few months and I would
2311
02:18:03.870 --> 02:18:06.819
hear from Chris when he knew I was back there and,
2312
02:18:07.430 --> 02:18:11.290
We sort of mended a lot of animosity I had
2313
02:18:11.350 --> 02:18:15.239
towards him for his behavior. And we had a daughter.
2314
02:18:15.280 --> 02:18:19.180
So Chris and I were amicable. And Billy also would
2315
02:18:19.219 --> 02:18:21.979
phone me. So they both phoned me at this time
2316
02:18:22.479 --> 02:18:26.840
when I was in England. And Billy said, you know,
2317
02:18:28.079 --> 02:18:34.010
we should probably get a divorce, which was definitely a
2318
02:18:34.049 --> 02:18:38.489
good idea. And we decided just to have an uncontested divorce.
2319
02:18:38.530 --> 02:18:42.129
And so he was living in Florida. So I actually,
2320
02:18:42.719 --> 02:18:46.920
he flew me into Florida. And he actually got me
2321
02:18:47.079 --> 02:18:52.979
an apartment for six months, which he paid for. And
2322
02:18:53.340 --> 02:18:56.340
I had a green card. And because Florida kind of
2323
02:18:57.059 --> 02:18:59.319
was a little bit like the L.A. scene, I really
2324
02:18:59.379 --> 02:19:03.829
loved it in Tampa. And... I got a job for
2325
02:19:03.909 --> 02:19:06.750
Estee Lauder as a makeup artist and I actually stayed
2326
02:19:06.790 --> 02:19:10.290
in Florida. But one day Chris phoned me and he
2327
02:19:10.329 --> 02:19:14.180
said there's a wrestler he was working with called Gino
2328
02:19:14.219 --> 02:19:18.040
Hernandez and this was his first idea to do this
2329
02:19:18.219 --> 02:19:23.860
XY angle. Because I was really content in Florida with
2330
02:19:23.959 --> 02:19:28.989
my job and added some stability with my daughter, Jade,
2331
02:19:29.930 --> 02:19:32.610
I wasn't sort of ready just to up and leave to,
2332
02:19:32.889 --> 02:19:36.219
to go to Dallas, and I was also dating somebody,
2333
02:19:36.360 --> 02:19:38.620
so I, you know, I was quite content in my
2334
02:19:38.639 --> 02:19:41.959
life just then, um, and that's when I think they
2335
02:19:42.000 --> 02:19:44.739
put Babydoll with, who I was so excited to meet
2336
02:19:44.799 --> 02:19:53.750
in Charlotte, by the way, and they put Babydoll with Gino, but, um, um, eventually, um, um,
2337
02:19:53.930 --> 02:19:56.430
the guy that I was dating left, and I was
2338
02:19:56.489 --> 02:20:00.379
just one day, Chris phoned, and And he said it
2339
02:20:00.399 --> 02:20:04.520
would be cool to go to Dallas and we'd both
2340
02:20:04.899 --> 02:20:08.459
be able to see Jade, our daughter, and just decided okay.
2341
02:20:08.479 --> 02:20:12.440
And so I went to Dallas and Chris got me
2342
02:20:12.479 --> 02:20:14.879
an apartment at a place called Lover's Lane. I was
2343
02:20:14.920 --> 02:20:18.319
Gino's neighbor there and Chris lived there. So we all
2344
02:20:18.399 --> 02:20:22.219
three lived there and I met Tony. And although she
2345
02:20:22.239 --> 02:20:24.879
was a little bit upset the first time I got
2346
02:20:24.920 --> 02:20:28.049
there because I was his ex-girlfriend, You know, I soon
2347
02:20:28.229 --> 02:20:32.170
put any fears she had to rest because there was
2348
02:20:32.209 --> 02:20:39.040
no romantic interest with Chris. But so we were, you know,
2349
02:20:39.420 --> 02:20:44.479
I would actually go to this auditorium before the angle periodically,
2350
02:20:44.559 --> 02:20:48.549
not too often because I started my own business doing
2351
02:20:48.729 --> 02:20:51.610
novelty telegrams. And I had a real successful business. I
2352
02:20:51.610 --> 02:20:55.299
had about 10 employees. And, um, but occasionally I would
2353
02:20:55.340 --> 02:20:58.639
go to the sportatorium and, um, you know, I'd see
2354
02:20:58.860 --> 02:21:03.750
the matches there and, uh, we were all friendly, you know,
2355
02:21:03.809 --> 02:21:07.450
and I remember the hair match with, uh, Chris and Gina.
2356
02:21:07.469 --> 02:21:09.370
I was there at the cotton ball and I met
2357
02:21:09.430 --> 02:21:12.409
Missy Hyatt there. So I, I had known her before
2358
02:21:12.430 --> 02:21:18.680
I went into WCW. Um, but, um, basically, you know, we,
2359
02:21:18.780 --> 02:21:23.329
we were all friendly. And then, um, Chris, started his
2360
02:21:23.399 --> 02:21:27.200
wrestling school and and I remember him phoning me up
2361
02:21:27.319 --> 02:21:30.399
saying well you see Gino had died as well so
2362
02:21:30.420 --> 02:21:33.719
the ex-wife angle never happened there and but he still
2363
02:21:33.760 --> 02:21:38.000
had this this this idea that he'd had for years
2364
02:21:38.100 --> 02:21:41.969
really and um he said you know I've got this
2365
02:21:42.090 --> 02:21:45.450
one student is is is possibly the only one who's
2366
02:21:45.469 --> 02:21:49.370
got potential at the students and that was Steve Williams
2367
02:21:49.430 --> 02:21:52.559
he said and I think this is a perfect time
2368
02:21:52.680 --> 02:21:56.360
to have a go at this ex-wife angle. Now, the
2369
02:21:56.940 --> 02:21:59.799
tapings at the Sportatorium was just on a Friday night
2370
02:21:59.819 --> 02:22:02.889
and a Saturday morning. And because I had 10 employees,
2371
02:22:02.940 --> 02:22:05.309
I could take a couple days off. And it wasn't
2372
02:22:05.370 --> 02:22:08.290
like going on the road. It was just local. I
2373
02:22:08.329 --> 02:22:11.870
thought it would be fun. And I remember going into
2374
02:22:11.909 --> 02:22:15.930
the Sportatorium on the first day and Tony said, Hi,
2375
02:22:15.989 --> 02:22:20.379
this is... Steve Williams. I'm like, hi. And he's like, yeah, hi.
2376
02:22:20.739 --> 02:22:23.620
He turns around, walks away. And I said, oh dear,
2377
02:22:24.120 --> 02:22:26.180
is this going to be okay to do this angle?
2378
02:22:26.219 --> 02:22:29.040
Cause you know, he don't seem like he's too cool
2379
02:22:29.079 --> 02:22:32.579
about it. And, um, you know, so my first experience
2380
02:22:32.620 --> 02:22:35.530
with Steve was like, he, he, he didn't seem too
2381
02:22:35.569 --> 02:22:39.770
happy to do this angle that, but as time went on, we,
2382
02:22:39.850 --> 02:22:45.950
we would go into Chris's office with Jerry and became friends. And, um, that, that's, uh,
2383
02:22:46.750 --> 02:22:51.170
Soon we started to enjoy the angle. We had a
2384
02:22:51.649 --> 02:22:52.090
lot of fun.
2385
02:22:59.059 --> 02:23:02.079
Longing for some nostalgia? Or maybe you want to learn
2386
02:23:02.139 --> 02:23:06.020
some wrestling history? Don't miss the 90s Past Cast every
2387
02:23:06.079 --> 02:23:09.799
Friday on the PWTorch Daily Cast feed. Alex and Patrick
2388
02:23:09.840 --> 02:23:13.100
will transport you 30 years into the past by taking
2389
02:23:13.120 --> 02:23:16.450
you through the Torch issue from that very week. Follow
2390
02:23:16.489 --> 02:23:19.649
news from the WWF and WCW and all the happenings
2391
02:23:19.670 --> 02:23:22.610
from across the wrestling industry in real time as The
2392
02:23:22.670 --> 02:23:26.540
Torch reported it 30 years ago. That's the 90s Passcast
2393
02:23:26.659 --> 02:23:29.340
every Friday on the PWTorch daily cast feed.
2394
02:23:40.079 --> 02:23:45.010
So you gave up this successful business to do wrestling.
2395
02:23:46.530 --> 02:23:52.260
No, no, no. I only... I work my business five,
2396
02:23:52.379 --> 02:23:54.899
seven days a week, actually, and I had ten employees.
2397
02:23:54.920 --> 02:23:58.100
I only took off Friday night, and I still work
2398
02:23:58.139 --> 02:24:02.290
Saturday night. So this at the Sportatorium was just a
2399
02:24:02.309 --> 02:24:05.229
little bit of fun, but I still kept my business
2400
02:24:05.350 --> 02:24:10.670
going for the rest of the week. Doing that until
2401
02:24:10.729 --> 02:24:12.770
I was still working, yeah, my business.
2402
02:24:13.350 --> 02:24:18.700
You talk about how Steve didn't seem very... very into
2403
02:24:18.760 --> 02:24:22.840
everything at first. What were your impressions of a young
2404
02:24:22.879 --> 02:24:23.639
Steve Williams?
2405
02:24:24.399 --> 02:24:30.170
Well, I thought he was very polite and very humble,
2406
02:24:31.489 --> 02:24:35.450
but I always thought right from the beginning, if I'm honest,
2407
02:24:35.489 --> 02:24:37.969
that he was highly competitive. I don't think he really
2408
02:24:38.950 --> 02:24:42.829
ever wanted anybody with him to, I'm going to say,
2409
02:24:42.879 --> 02:24:45.020
take his heat, because I think in a lot of ways,
2410
02:24:45.770 --> 02:24:49.510
Steve didn't like that later on with the ringmaster and
2411
02:24:49.530 --> 02:24:55.750
he's not really caught sharing these. Very, very competitive. And
2412
02:24:56.149 --> 02:25:00.829
I noticed some of that competitiveness. If I look back,
2413
02:25:00.870 --> 02:25:03.629
I didn't realize it at the time because we would
2414
02:25:03.670 --> 02:25:06.709
often have no money about what I did, but he
2415
02:25:06.750 --> 02:25:11.000
didn't at that time. And one of the things we
2416
02:25:11.059 --> 02:25:13.860
used to do is take like a little trash can
2417
02:25:14.520 --> 02:25:16.899
And we put it at the end of the hotel room.
2418
02:25:17.399 --> 02:25:21.860
And then you would take the beer can and flip
2419
02:25:21.920 --> 02:25:25.829
it into the trash can. Whoever got it in the
2420
02:25:25.870 --> 02:25:30.450
trash can would win the game. And then he kept
2421
02:25:30.489 --> 02:25:32.590
beating me, beating me, beating me. And then he showed
2422
02:25:32.649 --> 02:25:36.739
me a technique, this little flip wrist technique. And I
2423
02:25:36.770 --> 02:25:39.639
got really good at it. And then I started to
2424
02:25:39.680 --> 02:25:41.239
beat him. And then he said, oh, no, I'm not
2425
02:25:41.260 --> 02:25:46.409
going to play anymore. So I thought... Oh, you know,
2426
02:25:46.430 --> 02:25:48.450
I'd beaten him, so he didn't want to play. And
2427
02:25:48.469 --> 02:25:53.079
then another time we went fishing for catfish, and I
2428
02:25:53.110 --> 02:25:55.840
just got really lucky, I suppose, but I caught like
2429
02:25:55.840 --> 02:25:59.120
13 catfish. I think he caught one, and he didn't
2430
02:25:59.159 --> 02:26:02.520
like it. So I think he has this, and I
2431
02:26:02.559 --> 02:26:05.149
often say to him, let's play cards. No, no, I
2432
02:26:05.180 --> 02:26:06.010
don't play cards.
2433
02:26:06.090 --> 02:26:06.370
Why?
2434
02:26:06.809 --> 02:26:10.290
Because I don't like losing. So I saw this really come,
2435
02:26:10.629 --> 02:26:13.680
which is really good, because I think at the end of...
2436
02:26:14.909 --> 02:26:17.909
you know everything i mean that's exactly why he made
2437
02:26:17.950 --> 02:26:21.709
it so big because he's uh you know he he
2438
02:26:21.750 --> 02:26:26.170
wants to win and he he did but um i
2439
02:26:26.209 --> 02:26:29.540
think i think he would prefer to be a singles
2440
02:26:29.700 --> 02:26:34.700
person more than with a manager dash ballet but as
2441
02:26:35.020 --> 02:26:37.860
as the angle went on i think he really started
2442
02:26:37.899 --> 02:26:41.020
to enjoy it because you know we we did some
2443
02:26:41.040 --> 02:26:43.540
really cool interviews and i used to talk a lot,
2444
02:26:43.579 --> 02:26:46.040
and we had a good laugh, really. It was really
2445
02:26:46.100 --> 02:26:50.750
good fun doing the angle. And we ended up becoming
2446
02:26:50.780 --> 02:26:53.309
really good friends for like six months before we dated.
2447
02:26:53.329 --> 02:26:56.590
He was still married anyway.
2448
02:26:57.909 --> 02:27:01.850
Now, as this moved on, I mean, it sounds like
2449
02:27:01.930 --> 02:27:05.729
you really look back fondly, fondly on this time, being
2450
02:27:05.790 --> 02:27:10.370
able to perform, have some fun, and you know, have some,
2451
02:27:10.930 --> 02:27:13.510
not romantic, but some companionship, some friendship.
2452
02:27:15.450 --> 02:27:21.530
It was very fun. You know, Percy Pringle was a blast. And,
2453
02:27:22.010 --> 02:27:27.569
you know, the fans were amazing in the Sportatorium. It
2454
02:27:27.610 --> 02:27:32.389
had that atmosphere that was electric, you know, and I
2455
02:27:32.430 --> 02:27:36.540
think the fans made it so special there. And you
2456
02:27:36.579 --> 02:27:39.299
know every Friday was such a blast because Chris would
2457
02:27:39.440 --> 02:27:42.860
always be the one who came up with what we
2458
02:27:42.899 --> 02:27:45.459
were going to do for the angle and Chris was
2459
02:27:45.719 --> 02:27:48.909
very creative actually and he would you know tell me
2460
02:27:48.989 --> 02:27:51.909
say this say that and I would be oh and
2461
02:27:51.950 --> 02:27:55.770
they would boo me and but Steve and I had
2462
02:27:55.809 --> 02:27:58.409
good chemistry and yeah it was a great laugh and
2463
02:27:59.069 --> 02:28:01.809
And I looked forward to it every Friday and then
2464
02:28:01.829 --> 02:28:04.989
the Saturday morning. And then I went about doing my job.
2465
02:28:05.350 --> 02:28:09.510
But what happened was Chris at the time had his
2466
02:28:09.629 --> 02:28:13.510
own promotions called L & A Promotions. He did his
2467
02:28:13.569 --> 02:28:19.690
own little spot shows. And he had one in Louisiana.
2468
02:28:20.159 --> 02:28:23.659
I didn't really know how to get to Louisiana. And
2469
02:28:24.040 --> 02:28:27.219
Chris said to me, well, hook up with Bronco. And
2470
02:28:27.239 --> 02:28:31.180
you could drive with him. And Steve was driving. And
2471
02:28:31.260 --> 02:28:35.010
on that trip to Louisiana, Steve kind of let me
2472
02:28:35.049 --> 02:28:38.709
know he liked me. And so then we had, it
2473
02:28:38.729 --> 02:28:44.389
was a romance blossoming. But it was like a good
2474
02:28:44.450 --> 02:28:48.700
six months after we met. And then I realized he
2475
02:28:49.100 --> 02:28:50.180
was attracted to me.
2476
02:28:50.200 --> 02:28:53.700
Had you thought about him in that way before?
2477
02:28:53.719 --> 02:28:55.260
That was the start of our romance. Huh?
2478
02:28:55.930 --> 02:28:58.110
Had you thought about him in a romantic way prior
2479
02:28:58.139 --> 02:28:58.420
to that?
2480
02:29:00.139 --> 02:29:05.760
Well, I found... No, look, I mean, he had a girlfriend,
2481
02:29:06.639 --> 02:29:13.440
but he had felt, like, obligated. This is what he
2482
02:29:13.479 --> 02:29:17.829
told me. He felt obligated to get married via his family,
2483
02:29:17.860 --> 02:29:20.469
and God bless her, because she's a lovely girl, I'm sure.
2484
02:29:20.489 --> 02:29:21.170
But he.
2485
02:29:23.159 --> 02:29:26.659
He didn't seem like he was happy in that relationship.
2486
02:29:27.579 --> 02:29:31.760
And although I didn't immediately have attraction to Steve, I
2487
02:29:31.799 --> 02:29:34.809
always thought he was really nice. And during the angle
2488
02:29:34.860 --> 02:29:40.489
in our conversations, we became really close friends. And so
2489
02:29:40.670 --> 02:29:43.909
there was an intimate kind of bond between us.
2490
02:29:45.510 --> 02:29:47.870
So for those who don't remember, you know, Steve Austin
2491
02:29:47.909 --> 02:29:52.520
was obviously very good right from the start and, You know,
2492
02:29:52.979 --> 02:29:55.620
to get into an angle, a main angle, a drawing
2493
02:29:55.700 --> 02:29:58.200
angle in Texas very early in his career is a
2494
02:29:58.239 --> 02:30:01.750
testament to how good he was and how early it
2495
02:30:01.809 --> 02:30:05.010
was in his career. And then it wasn't long after
2496
02:30:05.069 --> 02:30:09.489
that that he was called and brought to Atlanta with WCW.
2497
02:30:09.510 --> 02:30:12.030
And were you initially supposed to be part of the
2498
02:30:12.069 --> 02:30:14.209
package on air, on camera?
2499
02:30:14.229 --> 02:30:14.610
No.
2500
02:30:15.809 --> 02:30:20.530
No, and I was quite happy. to visit him in
2501
02:30:20.790 --> 02:30:23.659
Memphis at the time he was at, and I did that.
2502
02:30:23.780 --> 02:30:27.379
I flew in there and saw him, and I carried
2503
02:30:27.479 --> 02:30:31.520
on with my business because I had a lot of employees,
2504
02:30:31.719 --> 02:30:34.639
and I worked really hard, and I needed to keep
2505
02:30:34.700 --> 02:30:36.659
working because I had a lot of bills to pay,
2506
02:30:36.680 --> 02:30:39.569
and I was making good money doing my telegram business.
2507
02:30:40.329 --> 02:30:46.309
But when Steve would come back to Dallas from working...
2508
02:30:46.350 --> 02:30:50.489
He really didn't talk too much about what was going on. And,
2509
02:30:51.110 --> 02:30:55.049
you know, and I didn't ask him. But one day
2510
02:30:55.270 --> 02:30:58.649
Magnum called the house for Steve because he would often
2511
02:30:58.709 --> 02:31:03.979
stay at my house. And Magnum just, you know, sorry
2512
02:31:04.100 --> 02:31:06.440
Steve's not here, he's at the gym. And where are
2513
02:31:06.459 --> 02:31:11.559
you from? And I like your accent. And what do
2514
02:31:11.600 --> 02:31:14.100
you do? And I said I used to work with Steve.
2515
02:31:14.879 --> 02:31:18.389
you know, in world class. No, really. I didn't know
2516
02:31:18.420 --> 02:31:22.049
they hired Veronica because I didn't watch the show. So
2517
02:31:22.430 --> 02:31:25.909
a lot of people say, what did you think of Veronica? Well, actually,
2518
02:31:25.930 --> 02:31:27.969
I never saw her work or didn't meet her. But
2519
02:31:28.510 --> 02:31:32.450
I heard later, a lot later, that they didn't think
2520
02:31:33.409 --> 02:31:38.979
she had the chemistry, Steve, or she was too cute
2521
02:31:39.479 --> 02:31:42.979
or too sweet in the role of the heel. She
2522
02:31:43.020 --> 02:31:46.450
had kind of a nice So they wanted somebody to
2523
02:31:47.729 --> 02:31:54.069
be a little bit more like I was in world class.
2524
02:31:54.090 --> 02:31:56.909
But to be honest, in world class, they used me
2525
02:31:56.969 --> 02:31:59.909
all the time to talk. And some of that was
2526
02:31:59.989 --> 02:32:04.729
part of my character. And it's strange because Magnum was
2527
02:32:04.750 --> 02:32:07.149
the one who said, I like your accent and stuff
2528
02:32:07.170 --> 02:32:09.170
like that. But then they never used me in talking
2529
02:32:09.690 --> 02:32:13.829
well in WCW. And I missed Chris and Tony terribly
2530
02:32:13.850 --> 02:32:16.129
when I was up there because Chris was the one
2531
02:32:16.170 --> 02:32:19.950
who gave me so much direction. And Dusty did say once,
2532
02:32:20.069 --> 02:32:22.750
I was in the dressing room, and Chris had sent
2533
02:32:22.790 --> 02:32:28.809
in a tape of the angle. And Steve had shot
2534
02:32:28.850 --> 02:32:32.180
it down at that point because he'd fallen out with Chris.
2535
02:32:33.780 --> 02:32:36.500
But it would have been the first crossover angle, I think,
2536
02:32:36.579 --> 02:32:39.139
if it had come about. And I kind of was
2537
02:32:39.200 --> 02:32:39.860
sad it didn't.
2538
02:32:42.579 --> 02:32:46.739
Were you disappointed that you didn't get to do more
2539
02:32:46.899 --> 02:32:49.020
active on-air role like you've done in Texas?
2540
02:32:51.469 --> 02:32:57.069
Yeah, it was really. Because Magnum had said to me,
2541
02:32:58.069 --> 02:33:02.219
we like your accent. And part of, I think, the
2542
02:33:03.659 --> 02:33:08.639
heat I got in world class was because of my
2543
02:33:08.659 --> 02:33:12.850
dirty accent. how I would act at that time. So
2544
02:33:12.870 --> 02:33:18.809
I felt quite lost. I mean, these two, Luke and Tony,
2545
02:33:18.989 --> 02:33:24.459
and that, because, you know, I really had hoped that
2546
02:33:25.659 --> 02:33:28.200
Dusty would bring them in, and he was going to,
2547
02:33:28.280 --> 02:33:33.540
but unfortunately, Steve didn't want that, because him and Chris
2548
02:33:33.559 --> 02:33:36.469
had fallen out, so he was just to work with him.
2549
02:33:38.469 --> 02:33:42.639
Now, the The Lady Blossom name, did that come from Dusty?
2550
02:33:44.520 --> 02:33:45.139
Yeah, it did.
2551
02:33:45.180 --> 02:33:48.139
And I wish I had some prepared, man, because I
2552
02:33:48.180 --> 02:33:54.040
hated it. And I heard later, I was like, oh, no.
2553
02:33:54.700 --> 02:33:57.459
You know, I just wish I'd have had a name saying, oh,
2554
02:33:57.479 --> 02:34:01.299
can I be this? And I didn't. And later he said,
2555
02:34:02.059 --> 02:34:03.860
not at the time, but later he said it was
2556
02:34:03.879 --> 02:34:10.860
because my chest was blind out of the dress. But, yeah. Yeah.
2557
02:34:11.020 --> 02:34:13.540
I hate that name so bad.
2558
02:34:13.600 --> 02:34:16.020
Dusty was a genius, but he had some weird ideas
2559
02:34:16.139 --> 02:34:18.200
too sometimes. Sometimes some of the stuff that he came
2560
02:34:18.260 --> 02:34:20.020
up with, you're just like, where did that come from?
2561
02:34:20.079 --> 02:34:24.159
And I would definitely put the Lady Blossom name in
2562
02:34:24.200 --> 02:34:25.239
that category.
2563
02:34:27.020 --> 02:34:29.000
You know that last segment you're just listening to and
2564
02:34:29.020 --> 02:34:31.069
the next one that you're waiting to listen to? Those
2565
02:34:31.100 --> 02:34:33.610
can be one second apart with a VIP membership. You
2566
02:34:33.629 --> 02:34:38.270
can unlock our commercial-free versions of our shows, pwtorch.com slash govip,
2567
02:34:38.739 --> 02:34:42.520
tells you how to do it. That's pwtorch.com slash govip.
2568
02:34:42.879 --> 02:34:46.579
Options exist within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple account,
2569
02:34:46.729 --> 02:34:48.670
through Patreon, which, by the way, you can sync up
2570
02:34:48.700 --> 02:34:51.850
with Spotify, or just about any iOS or Android app.
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02:34:52.030 --> 02:34:54.870
With a full VIP membership, you can customize the feed
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02:34:54.909 --> 02:34:58.250
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02:34:58.290 --> 02:35:01.930
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02:35:02.069 --> 02:35:06.239
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2575
02:35:06.299 --> 02:35:09.360
our VIP exclusive podcasts that run throughout the week every week.
2576
02:35:12.309 --> 02:35:15.329
We mentioned a lot of this we can find and
2577
02:35:15.350 --> 02:35:17.530
we've skipped around. You can find more details about some
2578
02:35:17.549 --> 02:35:20.770
things in Jeannie's book. It's called Through the Shattered Glass.
2579
02:35:20.790 --> 02:35:24.809
You can find it at Amazon. And obviously, you know,
2580
02:35:24.930 --> 02:35:28.030
things took off and you were there during, you know,
2581
02:35:28.069 --> 02:35:32.620
Wade Keller obviously has got a relationship with Steve. He's
2582
02:35:32.700 --> 02:35:35.790
on Steve's podcast. quite a bit. And, you know, they've
2583
02:35:35.809 --> 02:35:38.729
talked about their history and things like that. And, you know,
2584
02:35:38.790 --> 02:35:40.510
one of the things that there's been a theme with
2585
02:35:40.569 --> 02:35:42.790
Wade that he talks about with the, with the torch
2586
02:35:43.909 --> 02:35:48.069
is that, you know, a lot of people recognized Steve's
2587
02:35:48.129 --> 02:35:50.809
talent and a lot of people saw how good he
2588
02:35:50.850 --> 02:35:54.030
was early on. And, and a lot of fans who
2589
02:35:54.079 --> 02:35:57.100
read the torch and, and other publications like the torch
2590
02:35:57.180 --> 02:35:59.860
saw that, that he had a lot of potential and
2591
02:35:59.879 --> 02:36:02.610
a lot of ability, but for some reason he, in
2592
02:36:02.670 --> 02:36:07.270
Atlanta and WCW, management often overlooked him or just saw
2593
02:36:07.329 --> 02:36:11.909
him at a certain level. Was that hard dealing with
2594
02:36:11.930 --> 02:36:13.450
that kind of frustration for Steve?
2595
02:36:15.590 --> 02:36:19.250
Yeah, and bring in mind, he got the TV title
2596
02:36:19.270 --> 02:36:23.250
from Bobby in the first few weeks he was there.
2597
02:36:23.270 --> 02:36:26.530
So here we are coming in and he's already got
2598
02:36:26.799 --> 02:36:29.200
the TV title. And not long after that, he got
2599
02:36:29.479 --> 02:36:33.059
another title. And I remember what it was. What happened
2600
02:36:33.090 --> 02:36:41.520
was with Steve was they had Hulk Hogan come in
2601
02:36:42.579 --> 02:36:45.719
and I think they were paranoid on both their parts
2602
02:36:45.780 --> 02:36:51.420
Hulk and Steve because you know Hulk put a lot
2603
02:36:51.440 --> 02:36:54.200
of his birthdays with him to work with that he
2604
02:36:54.459 --> 02:36:58.459
probably trusted and he might have been suspicious about who
2605
02:36:58.500 --> 02:37:01.420
would do business with him and obviously no one wants
2606
02:37:01.489 --> 02:37:06.149
to Steve, you know, had won these things that he
2607
02:37:06.190 --> 02:37:08.909
was coming up and he probably didn't want to do jobs. But,
2608
02:37:08.950 --> 02:37:14.379
you know, I think that that frustrated him when Hulk
2609
02:37:14.440 --> 02:37:19.200
came in. I don't know if you remember Jim Haxell.
2610
02:37:19.260 --> 02:37:24.620
He came in a squash match with Steve and Steve
2611
02:37:24.639 --> 02:37:27.620
got an injury. He wasn't exactly rushing to get back
2612
02:37:27.719 --> 02:37:34.780
into the... and then shortly after that is when he
2613
02:37:35.219 --> 02:37:38.540
got 90 day was something they had where Eric Bischoff
2614
02:37:38.600 --> 02:37:41.940
fired him and then he went to ECW and he
2615
02:37:41.979 --> 02:37:44.940
did the brief interviews I don't know if you remember
2616
02:37:44.959 --> 02:37:49.850
where he did a hub interview in a some brilliant interviews,
2617
02:37:50.709 --> 02:37:55.889
you know, which showed his frustration at the, you know,
2618
02:37:56.010 --> 02:37:59.049
the politics and everything that went on in WCW.
2619
02:38:00.409 --> 02:38:05.409
Now, did you ever try to, did you ever try
2620
02:38:05.450 --> 02:38:08.129
to get back in as a character or anything during
2621
02:38:08.629 --> 02:38:12.770
either his ECW or WWE runs or anything like that?
2622
02:38:12.870 --> 02:38:16.170
Or were you just being mom and keeping the house together?
2623
02:38:18.389 --> 02:38:21.700
Yeah, because it's, I don't know if you've read my
2624
02:38:21.760 --> 02:38:26.600
unhappy childhood. You have to remember, I mean, we're in
2625
02:38:26.620 --> 02:38:30.020
a senior department, but we're happy on the stage. And
2626
02:38:30.059 --> 02:38:34.120
then we're in the Portland Territory, and then we're back here.
2627
02:38:34.940 --> 02:38:41.500
And I never had any sort of family home. So, no,
2628
02:38:41.600 --> 02:38:44.090
I didn't check it back in. Bettering in my own house.
2629
02:38:44.110 --> 02:38:46.190
I had two daughters, but my life just went on.
2630
02:38:47.159 --> 02:38:49.940
Stephanie was born in July, she did, and I was
2631
02:38:49.959 --> 02:38:55.420
pregnant before I left. And then it was my first home,
2632
02:38:55.459 --> 02:38:59.729
my first sense of a real family. So I was, like,
2633
02:39:01.409 --> 02:39:04.030
coming up would be actually some of the happiest times.
2634
02:39:04.430 --> 02:39:09.629
And she was very, very happy up until whenever that
2635
02:39:09.649 --> 02:39:13.750
happened with her coping coming in. And I didn't, I
2636
02:39:13.790 --> 02:39:17.469
wouldn't jeopardize that. And of course, Nassie came along. I'm
2637
02:39:17.489 --> 02:39:22.969
the mom of the kids. And I was very, very excited.
2638
02:39:23.430 --> 02:39:27.059
I did, like, all this decorating. And I had a
2639
02:39:27.090 --> 02:39:29.399
sense of community. I had a lot of friends.
2640
02:39:29.719 --> 02:39:31.260
I started to go to church.
2641
02:39:31.340 --> 02:39:35.620
I had my neighbors. So I had a really fulfilling,
2642
02:39:35.680 --> 02:39:39.579
happy age. Steve and I would do so much stuff
2643
02:39:39.600 --> 02:39:43.010
with the kids together. We'd do an adult team. We'd
2644
02:39:43.469 --> 02:39:48.389
go out on four-wheelers. We go and shoot guns. So
2645
02:39:48.950 --> 02:39:57.840
I would say that the lead WCW director, Steve, up
2646
02:39:57.879 --> 02:40:03.219
until the issues with WCW were probably some of the
2647
02:40:03.299 --> 02:40:05.860
happiest times of my life.
2648
02:40:05.959 --> 02:40:09.680
As we're talking with Jeannie Clark, you can check out
2649
02:40:09.719 --> 02:40:13.719
her book. Through the Shattered Glass at Amazon.com. It talks
2650
02:40:13.819 --> 02:40:18.459
about the rise of Stone Cold Steve Austin, her role
2651
02:40:18.600 --> 02:40:22.809
in creating the nickname Stone Cold Steve Austin. And it
2652
02:40:22.850 --> 02:40:27.969
also talks about her battles with addiction and where she's
2653
02:40:28.010 --> 02:40:31.850
been for the last 16 years dealing with that, her struggle,
2654
02:40:31.920 --> 02:40:35.969
her victory there. over her addictions. And again, you can
2655
02:40:36.010 --> 02:40:41.030
read more about it at Through the Shattered Glass at Amazon.com.
2656
02:40:41.090 --> 02:40:44.149
As we wrap up here, Jeannie, real quick, where do
2657
02:40:44.450 --> 02:40:48.139
you find yourself today? It seems like you've gone through
2658
02:40:48.170 --> 02:40:50.860
a lot. You've had your ups and downs, but it
2659
02:40:50.879 --> 02:40:52.920
sounds like you're in a good place. Yeah, it's true.
2660
02:40:52.940 --> 02:41:01.829
At 16 years, I was on the rabbit, and It
2661
02:41:01.870 --> 02:41:06.290
was terrible despair in life. And eventually I went into
2662
02:41:06.329 --> 02:41:09.389
rehab for six months. And one of the things we
2663
02:41:09.409 --> 02:41:12.309
did in rehab was we would write down everything, our
2664
02:41:12.370 --> 02:41:15.270
thoughts and feelings. And I wanted to make amends with
2665
02:41:15.309 --> 02:41:20.270
my daughters for everything that went on during the addiction years.
2666
02:41:20.370 --> 02:41:26.559
And as a therapeutic reason, I wrote the book and
2667
02:41:26.799 --> 02:41:31.920
I'm really proud of it and happily I'm very bonded
2668
02:41:31.979 --> 02:41:36.459
with my daughters. I never left them. When they were
2669
02:41:36.500 --> 02:41:38.540
growing up, I got to see them grow up, and
2670
02:41:38.559 --> 02:41:46.010
that's a miracle. And I think that the book tells
2671
02:41:46.110 --> 02:41:50.430
of struggles with addiction, and I'm three years clean now,
2672
02:41:50.549 --> 02:41:55.770
so very proud of the book, and I'm looking for
2673
02:41:55.790 --> 02:41:58.170
a home, and I'm in a much better place.
2674
02:41:59.549 --> 02:42:01.909
Well, that's great. I mean, in a world where there
2675
02:42:01.950 --> 02:42:07.430
are so many tragedies in wrestling and many of Steve's
2676
02:42:07.510 --> 02:42:11.299
contemporaries and people that you worked with and knew are
2677
02:42:11.360 --> 02:42:14.020
no longer with us, I think it's a testament to you.
2678
02:42:14.059 --> 02:42:17.520
And we're very happy to see that you didn't become
2679
02:42:17.579 --> 02:42:20.840
one of those wrestling tragedies. We're glad to hear that
2680
02:42:20.889 --> 02:42:24.590
you're much better now. You've got good relationships now. Things
2681
02:42:24.670 --> 02:42:28.870
are on the upswing. It's always good when you can
2682
02:42:28.969 --> 02:42:32.950
read about wrestling success stories versus yet another wrestling tragedy.
2683
02:42:34.270 --> 02:42:36.809
Yes, thank you.
2684
02:42:36.850 --> 02:42:39.350
The book is Through the Shattered Glass. They can get
2685
02:42:39.389 --> 02:42:43.829
it at Amazon. You're autographing some books as well, is
2686
02:42:43.850 --> 02:42:44.190
that right?
2687
02:42:45.879 --> 02:42:51.899
Yes. I'm on Facebook. I have some books. I'll autograph
2688
02:42:51.959 --> 02:42:54.760
them and mail them to anybody who wants them I
2689
02:42:54.799 --> 02:42:57.840
don't charge any extra to autograph it if they want
2690
02:42:57.879 --> 02:43:01.139
it directly through me they can contact me on Facebook
2691
02:43:01.200 --> 02:43:08.120
and that's on amazon.com and amazon.co.uk and I'm doing some
2692
02:43:08.180 --> 02:43:11.020
conventions too so I love to meet the fans because
2693
02:43:11.040 --> 02:43:13.920
they're the ones that really supported me and wrote some
2694
02:43:14.040 --> 02:43:17.520
great reviews on my book and very very very grateful
2695
02:43:17.579 --> 02:43:20.520
to the fans who even when I came out of
2696
02:43:20.600 --> 02:43:25.500
rehab it was such a a low place of daunting
2697
02:43:25.559 --> 02:43:28.360
coming out of there. And I chat to the fans.
2698
02:43:28.399 --> 02:43:31.319
They always made me feel better. So very grateful to them.
2699
02:43:32.500 --> 02:43:34.739
Do you know where you're going to be anytime soon?
2700
02:43:34.760 --> 02:43:36.659
Are there any appearances you want to promote?
2701
02:43:38.360 --> 02:43:43.549
I'm actually in Philadelphia in about 10 days on the
2702
02:43:43.870 --> 02:43:50.090
17th of September for Icon's show. So I have that
2703
02:43:50.229 --> 02:43:51.489
one coming up very soon.
2704
02:43:52.620 --> 02:43:55.649
You can find her on Twitter at Clark Jeannie. And
2705
02:43:55.709 --> 02:43:59.190
also you can find her again on Facebook under Jeannie Clark.
2706
02:43:59.350 --> 02:44:00.979
If you're a friend of mine on Facebook, you can
2707
02:44:01.020 --> 02:44:03.500
find Jeannie. She's one of my friends. I think I've
2708
02:44:03.520 --> 02:44:05.600
tagged her in a few posts as well, so be
2709
02:44:05.639 --> 02:44:08.059
sure to connect with her that way. And if you
2710
02:44:08.079 --> 02:44:10.620
want an autographed copy of Through the Looking Glass, that's
2711
02:44:10.680 --> 02:44:13.809
probably the best way to do it. Jeannie, thank you
2712
02:44:13.850 --> 02:44:16.829
so much. It was a joy to meet you this year,
2713
02:44:16.969 --> 02:44:20.239
and hopefully we'll get to work again. I really appreciate it.
2714
02:44:20.450 --> 02:44:23.350
And as always, if there's anything you need me for,
2715
02:44:23.409 --> 02:44:26.110
anything I can promote or anything I can do for you,
2716
02:44:26.149 --> 02:44:26.870
let me know.
2717
02:44:28.290 --> 02:44:29.399
Thank you so much.
2718
02:44:31.059 --> 02:44:33.979
My pleasure. Give my best to Cassie, and we'll have
2719
02:44:34.000 --> 02:44:36.670
to do a road trip sometime in the States and
2720
02:44:36.700 --> 02:44:38.350
go to some tacky tourist attractions.
2721
02:44:39.750 --> 02:44:43.069
Absolutely. Anytime you're in the UK, we can do the
2722
02:44:43.129 --> 02:44:46.010
theme parks as well.
2723
02:44:46.069 --> 02:44:48.649
That would be fun. I'd love to go to Blackpool sometime.
2724
02:44:49.770 --> 02:44:51.649
Yeah. It'd be great.
2725
02:44:53.450 --> 02:44:53.729
All right.
2726
02:44:53.750 --> 02:44:57.270
The lovely Jeannie Clark. My pleasure. Thank you, Jeannie. Take care,
2727
02:44:57.399 --> 02:45:01.200
and Like I mentioned, I'm off for a couple of weeks,
2728
02:45:01.620 --> 02:45:04.770
and I'll be back on the 24th of September with
2729
02:45:04.809 --> 02:45:09.969
Bruce Prichard, Brother Love from the WWE. And then on
2730
02:45:10.030 --> 02:45:16.409
the 1st, October 1st, don't miss it, Queen Kong, Matilda
2731
02:45:16.450 --> 02:45:21.950
the Hun from the Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling is going
2732
02:45:21.989 --> 02:45:26.610
to be here. Matilda the Hun from roller derby, from acting,
2733
02:45:26.739 --> 02:45:30.680
from glow, from mud wrestling. She is quite a character,
2734
02:45:30.819 --> 02:45:33.299
and I'm very excited to have her on. So I'll
2735
02:45:33.319 --> 02:45:34.780
see you in a couple of weeks. Thank you to
2736
02:45:34.860 --> 02:45:37.059
Jeannie Clark, and we'll talk to you next time here
2737
02:45:37.079 --> 02:45:40.030
on Saturday Morning Wrestling on BWTorch Livecast. See you. This
2738
02:45:40.049 --> 02:45:41.309
is Livecast.
2739
02:45:52.930 --> 02:45:56.120
Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our
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2749
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02:46:48.610 --> 02:46:52.610
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and fascinating flashbacks every day at PWTorch.com. Pull yourself away
2758
02:47:10.709 --> 02:47:12.930
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2759
02:47:12.950 --> 02:47:15.850
of you regret once you get lost in it for minutes,
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2762
02:47:23.620 --> 02:47:25.799
he co-hosts with me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well,
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02:47:25.840 --> 02:47:27.719
now you can listen to him every week on the
2764
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02:47:31.059 --> 02:47:31.440
you more.
2766
02:47:31.569 --> 02:47:34.010
Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with
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02:47:34.030 --> 02:47:36.110
the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's
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02:47:36.170 --> 02:47:39.069
comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE.
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02:47:39.170 --> 02:47:42.069
From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered.
2770
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The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest
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2772
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2773
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for you every week at PWTorch VIP. Did you know
2779
02:48:07.860 --> 02:48:11.229
that you can enjoy commercial-free versions of all of your
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favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PWTorch daily casts? Just go
2781
02:48:15.319 --> 02:48:20.729
to patreon.com, search PWTorch, and subscribe to a VIP membership tier.
2782
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You get a seven-day free trial, by the way, to
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kick the tires a bit and see if you like
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the service. And then sync it with Spotify, and you
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can listen to commercial-free versions of our free shows like
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the Wade Keller Post Shows, the Wade Keller Podcast Flagship,
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02:48:32.360 --> 02:48:35.379
our flashbacks, and also the PWTorch DataCast lineup online. Again,
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02:48:35.620 --> 02:48:39.360
all commercial-free, a nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership,
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you can also unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything
2790
02:48:42.799 --> 02:48:44.520
with Rich and Wade, The Fix with Todd Martin that
2791
02:48:44.549 --> 02:48:46.829
I host with Todd every week, the Wade Keller News
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02:48:46.870 --> 02:48:52.090
Bulletin's post-pay-per-view roundtables, and an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts
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02:48:52.110 --> 02:48:55.129
with different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup.
2794
02:48:55.510 --> 02:48:59.950
Go to Patreon and search PWTorch and subscribe and sync
2795
02:48:59.969 --> 02:49:02.709
it up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem.
2796
02:49:03.170 --> 02:49:06.489
Either way works, go to Patreon and start your seven-day
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02:49:06.569 --> 02:49:09.829
free trial. If you're listening to us on the Apple
2798
02:49:09.850 --> 02:49:12.399
Podcast app, on Spotify, or any other app that allows
2799
02:49:12.430 --> 02:49:14.280
you to rate our podcast, please take a moment to
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02:49:14.299 --> 02:49:16.639
give us a five-star rating. It really helps us in
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the algorithm and helps them know that you recommend us
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to others. Just look for a place to rate the
2803
02:49:21.819 --> 02:49:24.280
show on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening
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to our shows, and please click that five-star rating. And
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02:49:26.770 --> 02:49:30.709
of course, thank you so much for listening. A PWTorch
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VIP membership doesn't just give you ad-free access to these
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shows and a ton of other VIP-exclusive podcasts throughout the week,
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but you also gain access to our unmatched, vast library
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of wrestling history, our contemporaneous week-to-week coverage through our Pro
2810
02:49:42.530 --> 02:49:45.520
Wrestling Torch weekly newsletters dating back to the late 1980s,
2811
02:49:45.889 --> 02:49:49.090
along with streaming and download access to hundreds of retro
2812
02:49:49.129 --> 02:49:51.969
radio shows from the 1990s, including some of my interviews
2813
02:49:52.389 --> 02:49:55.549
with wrestling's top newsmakers in the 90s. And also our
2814
02:49:55.770 --> 02:49:59.520
podcast library dating back to the year 2003. There's no larger,
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02:49:59.959 --> 02:50:03.940
longer-spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that that comes with
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a PWTorch VIP membership. Now approaching 20 years of podcasting.
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Go VIP and dive into our post-pay-per-view roundtables, our coverage
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of some of your favorite eras of wrestling, top-name long-form interviews,
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02:50:16.280 --> 02:50:21.000
and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. PWTorch.com
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02:50:21.100 --> 02:50:24.510
slash govip. We have a streamlined sign-up form, and you
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02:50:24.559 --> 02:50:26.840
can pay with PayPal or directly with your credit card
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02:50:26.959 --> 02:50:29.579
or debit card in one or two minutes. From right now,
2823
02:50:29.659 --> 02:50:33.290
you can be a VIP member and diving into our library, pwtorch.com
2824
02:50:33.350 --> 02:50:34.350
slash govip.