NEW FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell on Summerslam main event options, Ospreay, Callis Family, Jericho + Gino Hernandez biography author interview

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Go VIP Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the
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Wade Killer Pro Wrestling Podcast. Jason, is your money on
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Obafemi or Javan Evans or j Busso to be King
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of the Rain? And why? And is there a second
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and even a third choice that you would even consider?
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H I mean, I don't know how you get to
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the second or well, oh out of the three? Is
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that what you're saying?
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Yeah?
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Something? Well, I sadly, I think I lean Jay Uso.
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I It's tough because I Obafemi is the biggest match obviously.
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Is it the time to do it? Do you save
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that for later? I'm totally into the idea of doing it.
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If they decide, Hey, we're gonna pull the trigger on this,
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that's great. I'm hesitating with Jay just because having a
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hard time getting invested in this modern, current Bloodline story,
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and maybe that'll be something that actually sparks my interest.
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I don't know, but I kind of feel like Jay
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is cold, and if it were any other Showwade other
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than SummerSlam Mania, I'd be like, oh, you know, maybe
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jivon Evans, that would be a fun match, But I
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don't think they'll do it for Summer Slam.
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I'm enjoying the latest incarnation of the Bloodline. I find
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myself and adotally feeling I'm in the minority. I'm gonna
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put a pull up on pelew Torch try to get
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a pulsive at least peterly Torch readers on that. But
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I am reserving room to feel disappointed and feel it's
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it's derivative or or you know, in a emblematic of
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a lot of things that I think have been a
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down on the downside of Dodobe's philosophy and how they
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book in the last few years. But I also think
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there's enough positive signs where it could be compelling. I
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don't even mind if if the idea is well, Jay's
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gone back to being old Ja and Jimmy's old Jimmy
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and Romans old Roman and Jacob is just Sammy, And
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I'm like, well, I'm kind of okay with that as
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long as because it'd be weird if they weren't in
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a way. But they have to have shown growth in
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certain ways where they handle situations, where they handle similar
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situations ultimately differently when there's pivot points in the story,
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And I kind of faith is too strong of a word,
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but maybe confidence is too strong word. But my inclination
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is to think they're cognizant of not just doing a
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replay and that will happen, and I think there's a
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lot of different ways that can go. And then I
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like the satellite player, like Elle Knight, you know, like
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how does he factor into this? Yes, and he's been great,
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Like I think, you know, he's really risen with with
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more of a responsibility storyline wise here on his promo.
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So I think there's enough interesting moving parts. I mean,
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it might just be good and not great, but I'm
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I'm I'm pretty engaged right now. When it comes to
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Jay us So winning King of the Ring and facing Cody,
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that has to be more than we think that's a
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good match for SummerSlam, Like because it's not.
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But does he face Cody. I'm sorry to interrupt, but
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go ahead. They will have no idea. They are not
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They've sent mixed messages about whether it's for the title
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on the brand that you're with, or if you actually
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have to or you would get the option of choosing.
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I mean romans Z the one who kind of indicated
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that Jay would go after Cody. But which makes you think, like, oh,
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they can choose. He can't be that stupid to think that, like, oh, no,
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you can just challenge for the other title if the
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rules are that he has to challenge for yours, right,
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But I don't like and they just clear this up.
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Thank you, because I would like that too. I feel
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like I'm going crazy. Like last week after RAW, I
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think it was after RAW, I was like, they keep
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saying the women have to choose the restauran their event,
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but they're not saying that about the men. Should I
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read into that? And someone that Chad said no, no,
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they said the men have to the male king of
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the ring. I don't say male. It's the king and
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the queen. The king of the ring has to wrestle
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their own the restaurant, their own brand and then it's
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like this week they don't mention it at all, and
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it's and then it sounds like no, no, that that's
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not a thing. So I don't know if they're changing
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their mind on booking, or there was a slip up
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or what. So I'm glad you're as confused as I
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am in the sense that I don't feel like I
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miss something obvious. But I am going on. I'm going
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with the idea that it's too early in the process
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for Jay to challenge Roman, and I don't think Roman
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will lose the title between now and then, So I
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think the idea would be Ja would either be Cody,
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which is unlikely, or lose, and that would play into
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Roman being upset with J and J being more upset.
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But the thing is that there's so many moving parts,
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both internally and externally with the Bloodline storyline. I think
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they can throw a lot of twists our way. But
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it does come down to what you said, too. Do
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they want to go with Oba Feme against Roman reigns
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Now we're less than you know, what's six weeks out
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and by then it'll be less than that. Is that
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enough Bill to give that match away for the first time?
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And then does that mean Roman is on a fast
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track to go heel or are they going to do
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some lame thing with this red hot Goldberg in the
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Nitro era meets Hulk Hogan in the AWA as a
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breakout star, This this just potential, just phenom and then
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put him in the ring with somebody who's ultra popular
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and asked the fans to choose, Like, would they really
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do that.
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With that?
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So I don't know about rains as and is rains
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of baby Face. Now some people like he hasn't turned.
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He's always been a you know he is, He's been
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a heel, he will be a heel. But he just
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is cheered because he's a star. I want some clarity
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on that. I'm okay with where they are with it now,
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but I hope that they don't just think, oh, they're
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just no pun intentive but on an island unto themselves
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and you can cheer or boo. They just are who
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they are. And I'm not a fan of that because
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I think it it undercuts their heal opponents and their
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baby Face opponents to just have Roman cheered because he's
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a Roman.
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That's my concern is that, I mean, we've seen a
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little bit of arrogance in that way where they've moved
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into the shades of gray with a lot of different
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things in the love Back era. And I always I
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say arrogance because it always feels like you're trying to
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reinvent the wheel, like you're doing something novel. It's like, no,
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you're really not. It's just a not great storytelling. I'm sorry.
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Somebody might be able to pull that off and pull
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it off well, but I've yet to see it in
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wrestling for more than an act here and there temporarily,
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and yeah, I guess I just I need to see Ultimately,
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I may look back and go, Okay, yeah it was rocky,
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but you got to where you needed to be, and
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now I'm excited. It's not that I just can't stand
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what they're doing or anything like that, but I'm just
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kind of like, all right, this feels a little derivative.
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I feel like I've seen this before. I feel like
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Fatu is Sammy saying right now, and there's some differences.
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It was a little interesting to me though, that Roman
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really is, you know, trying to take Fantu under his wing,
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and it might not be for the right reasons, but
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he's doing so kind of budding up to him more
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so than Jimmy and Jay, So that part helped. But yeah,
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I don't know what you do because again I don't
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think it'll be Evans. You could have a fun match,
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but I just don't think it's going to be him.
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If if you can challenge for either title, that then
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I think Jay versus Roman is a lot more interesting
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to me than Cody versus Jay.
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It just what's the book?
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Yeah, So if it's that, okay, But I still think
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you should have told us from the start. Hey, you know,
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we screwed up last year basically why I don't know
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why we decided to take this tool out of our toolbox.
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It's going to be up to the champion or the
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winners of the King of the Queen of the Green.
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Easy for me to say King and Queen of the
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Ring to challenge for either title. And I mean, I
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don't know why they did that the way they did anyway,
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Like I get it, like well the Rumble Special, but
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there may be a time or you want to do this,
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and if you don't, if there's five years in a
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row where you have the winners challenge that you champion
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on their respective brand. Okay, that's fine. At least it's
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put out there that it's an option. But this mixed
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message nonsense. It's just not even fair as a viewer,
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like tell me what's going on.
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Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our
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show's commercial free a nice streamline listening experience. Pw torch
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commercial free listening experience, and with a full VIP membership,
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time is valuable, and that's one of the reasons we
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offer VIP membership. Pw torch dot com slash go vip. Yep. No,
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totally agree. There should be clarity for for our sake, Jason,
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you know, like and I mean that like sort of
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literally us too. Doing a podcast, we don't have to
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talk about confusion, but for the fans, they should. It
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should be spelled out in the I'm a I'm a
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believer that it shouldn't that the announcers should seem like
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they are independent voices who have been who are covering
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a news event. Yeah, not hired pr con men, not conment.
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What's the word of the hype men. I guess propaganda
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spewers like don't they should come across and but this
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is like some strident principle about how sports should be covered.
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This is advocating for what is best for business. I
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think fans want to believe that no matter what's going
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on with management, no matter what's going on with heels
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and faces, that there is a voice that's looking out
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for you. And that's what I grew up with. I
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always felt like the announcers were on my side covering it,
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and you want to feel that way with sports too.
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If you're watching your local regional sports team, you know
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your local announcers, you kind of want to feel like, yeah,
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they're they're rooting for your team, but they're not trying
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to con you when someone is being selfish or playing poorly.
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You want doses of honesty, not just oblivious gaslighting. So
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I believe fans will be more loyal to a company
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if they believe the voice of the show is on
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their side first and foremost. So my point in that
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is the announcer should be going. Romans said Jay would
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fight Cody, but I mean Jay would have the option
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to face Roman, right, Corey, and then Corey Graves would go, well, yes,
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but we know he's not going to, so we can
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just not even consider that. Okay, good, they addressed it.
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That's a logical conversation that they would have if they
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weren't privy to what's going on, because it's a real
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sport and they didn't have notes of exactly what bullet
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points the booker has given them pervision to talk about.
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They should talk naturally about everything going on. Same on
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the women's side. So I believe fans go, Okay, I
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got something on my side. They're not hiding the questions
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that me and my friends have with each other when
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we're texting each other. All that said, I as much
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as a j versus Roman is more compelling in the
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short run, you are that is a major storyline beat
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in Bloodline two point zero, And if they don't want
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to tell that story, then I think they should sacrifice
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do it. They should do Jay Cody. If Jay wins
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King of the Ring, they believe in it. They booked it.
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They had to options. He decided to go with it,
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so we should kind of see it through. But they
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shouldn't go. Well, we want Jay to win, but Jay
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Cody's boring, So let's go with Jay Roman and blow
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up the whole timeline of everything we plan with the
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bloodline just to do it, because that would be a
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huge deal. There's no way Roman wouldn't be pissed. And
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if Jay came up short Roman's moment, Roman would be
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punishing Jay. And then that makes Jay more of a centerpiece,
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of a focal point of a dynamic with Roman as
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opposed to you know, Roscoe Peak Cole Train to Boss Hawk,
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which is kind of what he is now. You know,
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he's just the obnoxious guy past into the background, uh,
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snarling and and uh you know, agitating. So I don't know,
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I you know, I mean.
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A lot of co hosts that would have and that
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would have just gone right over their headway.
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Yes, I I you know, I take Keith for referencing
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I love Lucy on occasion. You know, everybody knows, Yeah,
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it is, it's it. They're just you know, you get
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to talk about like Julius Caesar, right, I mean it's
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a historically figure. Oh my god, you're going back centuries.
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No, it's like but anyway, although it be awesome, just
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just like show up and something like there's some conference
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where they're discussing some historical thing.
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Dude, totally yes, Now, I mean I think if I,
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like I'm trying to think, if I make references to
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like different strokes or facts of life, I mean they
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just sort of borderline because it wasn't this timeless iconic
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everybody should know and watch or at least be aware
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of it. Like I Love Lucy was like the first
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great sitcom and it's been in syndication forever. There's a
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channel dedicated to it on Pluto. You know, that kind
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of back to life. You had to be like eight
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or nine or ten for that report of your life.
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So what was I gonna say about that? That doesn't matter.
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So with with what's going on with the Bloodline, they
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have chosen to do that. They could have had l
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A Knight and Dom could have and Brock could have
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a tacked Oba and our final would be domb against
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Ella Knight, you know, I mean they could have done that.
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I'm just throwing this like, they have chosen to do
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Romea to do Oba versus either Javon or Jay. So
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obviously they have a plan, and I want to see
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it through, you know, I mean, I want to give
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them I'm not going to be too critical of it
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before I see it. But Cody at SummerSlam against Jay,
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it's sort of like, are you sure you know?
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Yeah?
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Yeah, But if you have Oba versus Brock on that
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same night, okay, you know, and then a strong women's match,
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You're like, all right, maybe we're we're in a spot
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that we can make this work. But then you know,
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what do you have for Roman?
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Then it well, and I know people are gonna point too.
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It's two nights, you can wrestle twice, and I would
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not burn through two Markie matches like that in one weekend,
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So I would avoid that.
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00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:58.360
Just for clarity. Avoid what two matches.
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Oba and Brock and a little bit in Roman the
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same week.
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I figure that, but I think we should spell it out.
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I don't know people sure, yeah. I want to go
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00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:08.320
back to what you said about the announcers, because I
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think that's one of the issues I'm also having with
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00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:14.679
the Bloodline storyline. They're just oblivious and it's yeah, I
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00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:16.879
mean I don't don't blame these guys because I'm sure
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00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:19.200
they're just being produced to do this or they don't
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00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:21.279
have the confidence. But like, we don't know what we're
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00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:25.080
supposed to say, so we're just gonna wait it it.
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00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:28.279
I mean, they're just approving of everything Roman does, no
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00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:31.799
matter how diabolic, no matter what it seems like. I mean,
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00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:35.759
last night they beat up the comedian actor Eric Andre.
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00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:37.159
Did you know Did you know who he was?
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00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:39.639
By the way, Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, he's.
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00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:42.759
I'm kind of proud because I don't the stuff he's
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00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:44.639
been in. I don't. I won't really, that's not really
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00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:45.200
my interesting.
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00:16:45.399 --> 00:16:49.279
Yeah, yeah, I totally get it. It's there. It's up
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00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:52.639
my alley because I do have like a soft spot
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00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:58.720
for just bad comedies. And but yeah, he's counting guy
330
00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:01.639
the movie has seen look kind of fun and he's
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00:17:01.639 --> 00:17:03.840
done some you know, stand up as well. But yeah,
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00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:05.960
so I was aware of him, and it wasn't like,
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00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:08.920
you know, I didn't expect you like household name kind
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00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:11.480
of thing, but just the idea that you're pulling some
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00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:14.200
guy even though he touched the little falla, you're pulling
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00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:15.000
him over the.
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00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:17.119
Thing and he didn't touch it. He fondled it.
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00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:23.119
He did, though, and then Roman gives the sign like
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00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:26.079
go for it, yes, and the announce it don't seem
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00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:29.599
to be bothered by this, and then it just continued
341
00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:33.079
like Adam Pearce who's stressed out about everything and always
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00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:36.480
needs a drink. Yep, nothing, he just backstage top when
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00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:39.240
Laderveil carrier like nothing ever happened. And other than the
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00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:41.279
replay of that, it was like nothing. It was just
345
00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:43.880
shock value. Nothing from that.
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00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:46.319
No, that's that's Corey Grave said. It was a warning
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00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:50.640
shot to the entire roster which is beating up this comedian. Yes,
348
00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:53.200
it was like a New York Times headline about Donald
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00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:56.279
Trump where they just normalize something that's really outlandishly weird,
350
00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:59.839
and and it just sanitized something that was, as you said,
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00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:05.039
ridiculously over the top. And you know, I know Joe
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00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:08.359
test Store is relatively new, but like like you said,
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00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:10.599
you know, they're doing what they're told. But what it
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00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:14.240
comes across as is, yeah, I hope what it is.
355
00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:16.759
And this doesn't excuse the point you're making that GM
356
00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:18.400
and the announcer should have made a bigger deal out
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00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:20.519
of it. The baby faces should have like that's what
358
00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:22.960
is going on, like I feel like I've been validated,
359
00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:25.960
you know, I've been vindicated that I'm not seeing things
360
00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:28.319
that aren't there when it comes to Roman's ego and
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00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:32.799
and what's going on. If the story is they want
362
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:35.039
to lay all the groundwork for Roman to turn heel,
363
00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:40.000
but they don't want to tip fans off by supporting
364
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:42.920
that notion or or even bringing it up officially in
365
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:47.440
the narrative. I mean, okay, but I mean, I like you, Jason,
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00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:49.839
I philosophically disagree with it because it makes everybody else
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00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:53.519
look foolish to not react naturally to something that was
368
00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:57.559
really over the top. I mean it was, it was
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00:18:57.880 --> 00:18:59.960
it was like what they should have known was gone.
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00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:01.880
Announcers and Corey should have looked at Joe and Joe
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00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:06.440
Shola Corey and they're just like, I'm I'm speechless, Like
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00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:09.799
I get the oohla fallas you know kind of you know,
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00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:12.839
sacred and and they might have felt it was disrespectful,
374
00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:16.319
but you can't do that, Like that's crazy, that's literally
375
00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:20.839
a felony, Like you pulled somebody from the audience and
376
00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:23.279
it like did they have to go that heavy handed
377
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:25.680
with a beatdown, like it could have just been a
378
00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:29.559
slap or a shove, and it would have been and
379
00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:32.039
then and then Eric would get up and and Doc,
380
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:33.759
you know the Adam Pierce wild come out and go
381
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:36.920
I'm sorry about that. And then and then uh, Roman
382
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:38.880
could have pulled fat tow back and then fought too.
383
00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:41.640
Could have just pie faced Eric and then walked away,
384
00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:43.440
and Roman could have smiled. You could have dialed it
385
00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:45.559
down eighty percent and told the same story and at
386
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:48.720
least then the context of the follow up of everything
387
00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:50.960
would have felt appropriate. But they didn't want to own
388
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:52.920
what they wanted to do what they did, but they
389
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:54.759
didn't want to own it in the narrative. And you're right,
390
00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:55.839
I'm getting worked up about it.
391
00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:56.000
It was.
392
00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:57.160
It was ridiculous.
393
00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:02.240
It was less Okay, this is interesting. We're's just going
394
00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:05.359
just went nowhere. I mean, remember this the next time
395
00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:08.160
they do some big angle with the celebrity that gets
396
00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:10.640
beat up and the heel is like kicked out of
397
00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:12.960
the building. I mean, there was just nothing, Jacobot. You
398
00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:14.839
just hung around the rest of the night like nothing
399
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:17.200
ever happened. It was really lazy.
400
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:23.799
Yeah. Yeah, so let me actually my question after we
401
00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:25.799
introduced the show, so I don't get too deep and
402
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:27.680
forget to do it is. I want to get your
403
00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:29.160
opinion on what you think they really are doing with
404
00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:32.720
Roman and on what timeline. Let's introduce ourselves first up,
405
00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:36.599
admit it, you love Nick Barbatty when he co hosts
406
00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:38.400
with me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, now
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00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:40.839
you can listen to him every week on The Nicky's Club,
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00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:43.920
a v IP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more.
409
00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:46.400
Hey wrestling fans, It's Nick Barbatty and I'm back with
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the Nickys Club, the place where the family of Nickys
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comes together for big laughs and Shark takes on WWE
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for WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns. I got you covered,
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club in town.
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Nick Barbatty wants to be part of your pro wrestling
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life everyone, So why not let him go VIP pw
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torch dot com slash go vip for full details on
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You can also stream directly from our ad free VIP website,
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Torch VIP. This is a Wade Keller Pro Wrestling podcast
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for Tuesday, June sixteenth, twenty twenty six. I'm Wayde Keller,
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host of the show, editor, publisher and founder of Pro
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Wrestling Torch, the newsletter, the website, and a big lineup
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of podcasts. I'm part of several free podcasts during the
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week and also several VIP exclusive podcasts including Everything with
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go vip to look at the lineup and see shows
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we've got. Oh, I was gonna say, we got several
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VIP exclusive shows, including Nicky's Club, which is Nick bar
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Battie talking WWE every week, really fun show. This past
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week he interviewed the author of the new Gino Hernandez book,
436
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:14.799
a biography on Gina Hernandez, who was one of my
437
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:18.799
favorite favorite wrestler's favorite heels to watch. I often make
438
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:22.359
references to him when I when I compare, like, oh,
439
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:26.039
is MGF like him? Or you know what he'l has
440
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:30.480
has certain tendencies like he did. And so anyway, there's
441
00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.599
a new book by Lizzie Flanagan out called I'm Your Champion,
442
00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:37.119
The Life and Death of wrestler Gino Hernandez. We are
443
00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:40.559
gonna that was VP exclusive a week ago today, but
444
00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:45.079
we're gonna release it after today's flagship right after Jason
445
00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:47.160
and I are donads. Who's gonna flow into that discussion?
446
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:49.759
What I know he never ran this by me?
447
00:22:50.039 --> 00:22:52.759
Yeah, I know, all right, I'm gonna listen to Yeah,
448
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:55.799
so that is coming up. You know, when an author
449
00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:58.960
is part of a podcast and they want to promote
450
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:00.759
their book, feel little bad putting behind the table. So
451
00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:03.799
he gave VIP members a week of exclusivity. But it's
452
00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:07.319
a really fun discussion and it's also sort of scandalous
453
00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:11.200
because there's drugs. There's kind of like with Dom, who
454
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:14.200
was his real dad? You know, was it Paul Bach?
455
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:19.240
There's there's so there's really interesting like conversations not just
456
00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:24.440
about Gina Ornandez and how he is reminiscent of other
457
00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:26.480
there's some MGF traits. You know, MGF has some geno
458
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:28.960
Ornatis traits. There's any gruds, some of geno orn edistraates
459
00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:31.160
he's really one of my favorite heels, So that's coming
460
00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:33.200
up after the show. But that's an example. There are
461
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:35.079
a lot of benefits to VIP membership and some of
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00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:38.319
them are early access to podcasts and fun exclusive shows.
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So pw torch dot com slash covi IP and by
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the way you have it, it's when you sign up,
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you have like almost forty years to catch up on.
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There's on hundreds of Eret radio shows from the nineties,
467
00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:49.519
some that I many that I hosted with big name guests.
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It was over two decades of podcasts on demand, and
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then we have a podcast feed with commercial free versions
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But we are here to talk current events on the
474
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:11.200
Flagship with Jason Powell from Pro Wrestling dot Net in
475
00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:14.319
the Progressing Boom podcast. He is the longest running co
476
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:19.599
host on the Flagship and he joins me here on average,
477
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:21.680
on average almost always every three weeks.
478
00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:25.799
Jason, welcome, Hey, great to be here, and yeah, that's
479
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:29.119
the right title for that book. I love that about Gino.
480
00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:31.920
I think he was the Texas Champion and anyway, just
481
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:33.960
look into the camera, I am your champion.
482
00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:40.119
Yes, yep, yep. And I think Lizzie and Nick noted
483
00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:43.400
when MGF won the title, he said, I am your champion.
484
00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:45.920
Oh and it felt like a tip of the hat
485
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:49.720
to the book and the acknowledgment that he does have
486
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:51.680
some geno traits. And it was after it was like
487
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:54.440
related to hair Match too, which of course Gino and
488
00:24:54.519 --> 00:24:57.160
Chris Adams and that famous match against fun Erics for
489
00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:01.119
the hair the hair match. So Adams was a wonderful
490
00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:04.079
heel too. He was one of those delightful heel turns
491
00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:06.880
where you're just I can't imagine this nice gentleman from
492
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:09.319
from England being a heel and then, oh my god,
493
00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:11.000
was he a good heel so and in the ring
494
00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:14.440
too as a as a wrestler, as a heel.
495
00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:18.119
I'm joking, kids. It wasn't pretty at the end there
496
00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:19.759
for Chris Adams. He may have been a bit heelish
497
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:23.119
outside the ring too, but oh oh yeah, he I
498
00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:25.279
mean it was a really good babyface too. He was
499
00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:27.960
working baby face when I started watching World Class. Yeah,
500
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:31.880
and I really liked it and and the heel turns great. Yeah, great,
501
00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:33.920
just fun. What a fun era that was.
502
00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:36.000
I have to tell this story like once a year,
503
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:41.000
give or take. After the UWF House Show, Bill Wats's
504
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:42.920
Mid South had turned into the UWF and Bill Watts
505
00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:45.880
was thinking of expanding nationally, try to keep up with
506
00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:50.079
Pinsic Manag Jim Crockett. And after the event at the
507
00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:53.599
mayor at Hotel you know, I asked Chris Adams, this
508
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:55.799
is like eighty six, is that right? But eighty six
509
00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:58.079
this is before I started the torch and asked him like,
510
00:25:58.359 --> 00:26:00.000
are you guys coming back? I hope you guys come back.
511
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:01.880
And it was a terrible crowd. It was like really
512
00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:03.640
disappointing at that is, but I was like, I hope
513
00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:06.759
you guys come back. You'll you'll, you know, you'll fan
514
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:09.039
support will be there. And then he leaned in. He goes,
515
00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:12.160
I don't know because there's been a murder. And I'm like,
516
00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:14.559
there's been a murder. What you're not coming back? There's
517
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:18.559
a murder. He's like, no, no, no merger and I'm like, oh,
518
00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:21.640
a merger and he tipped me off. I thought I
519
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:23.599
had a scoop. I mean obviously, you know, probably other
520
00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:25.440
people knew about it, but you know, we didn't have internet,
521
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:28.079
and I wasn't describing to a newslet or anything that
522
00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:29.799
that had the scoop. But he was referring to Jim
523
00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:33.200
Crockett Promotions buying, and so he was basically going, yeah,
524
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:35.240
we're just gonna merge into one company, so we can't
525
00:26:35.240 --> 00:26:37.960
come back because there won't be any UNWF But that
526
00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.559
that that moment made me think if I talked to
527
00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:44.920
if I talked to wrestlers, I can get scoops and
528
00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:47.279
then I can report them, you know, like it was.
529
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:49.440
It was, uh, yeah, it was. It was kind of
530
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:52.079
what sparked you know, I'm not not I mean, I
531
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:54.279
was already writing down everything that happened on wrestling shows
532
00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:56.960
for years in my notebook and being a reporter for
533
00:26:57.039 --> 00:27:00.039
an audience of one, which was me. But nevertheless, that
534
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:02.240
was kind of a little cool moment where Chris Adams
535
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:04.160
kind of sparked the idea of, oh, there's a way
536
00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:06.799
to get news by talking to wrestlers. Maybe I should
537
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:10.240
distribute this. So anyway, there's my Chris Adams story.
538
00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:13.960
Yeah that's fun, and I mean that was an exciting
539
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:17.799
time too. That was just a huge letdown when Crockett
540
00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:21.519
bought the UWF. Oh man, imagine the possibilities and then
541
00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:23.400
like they took care of Sting and I think Rick
542
00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:25.440
Steiner and everybody else ay just buried.
543
00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:30.559
Yep, yep, Terry, poor Terry Taylor. Yeah, it's a great
544
00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:40.160
great heel and h yep, but Terry annoyed people. So anyway,
545
00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:43.559
but he's he's done well. You know, Terry's collected a
546
00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:45.599
paycheck for a very long time. Talent is smart guy.
547
00:27:46.759 --> 00:27:49.200
All right, Gee, so we'll talk about your site and
548
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:52.799
your membership in a little bit and so everybody gets
549
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:55.000
your your pen and paper out, as they say, to
550
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:58.400
write down how you can support Jason even in between
551
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:02.200
these flagship shows. Our email, by the way, is always
552
00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:05.839
Wade Kellor Podcast at gmail dot com. You're always invited
553
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:09.359
anytime during the week, any week, send questions, send topics, suggestions.
554
00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:12.519
If we get enough that are especially if they're covering
555
00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:14.839
stuff we haven't talked a lot about, or at a
556
00:28:14.839 --> 00:28:18.799
new angle, we might do separate mailbag shows. So don't
557
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:20.880
be uh, don't be shy about it. There's something that
558
00:28:20.920 --> 00:28:22.839
comes up, especially if you just disagree or have a
559
00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:25.240
different perspective on things, or you go, hey, I enjoyed
560
00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:27.000
your discussion, but you miss this. You can be polite
561
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:28.799
about it, but you really miss this thing. You should
562
00:28:28.839 --> 00:28:31.799
talk about that next week. All that stuff very very
563
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:38.119
welcome and invited. All right, So Roman rings, what are
564
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:42.720
they doing with them? Jason? I agree with people who
565
00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:45.400
in the chat on the way Keller post shows, you know,
566
00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:49.039
on our YouTube channel, like oh, Roman's already heal and
567
00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:50.519
he really has been a hell. That wasn't a turn
568
00:28:50.599 --> 00:28:52.400
last night. That was just an amplification of what makes
569
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:58.720
him an asshole, you know, narcissist on a power trip.
570
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:01.759
Is that where what we're supposed to think, or as
571
00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:04.680
Roman reigns, this cool guy who has a lot of pressure,
572
00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:07.640
who's running the family business, as they put it, welcome
573
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:10.720
to the family business, and we're supposed to be sympathetic
574
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:16.720
to him because we're supposed to cheer dictators who we
575
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:17.920
think are charismatic.
576
00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:26.519
I mean, we're getting into the company's politics because I guess, yeah, yeah,
577
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:31.960
I don't know's it's the good and bad of this
578
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:35.440
and hopefully it's gonna end up being a good thing.
579
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:38.599
Like they want us to feel this way and it's
580
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:41.440
all going somewhere, and it's not going to take two
581
00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:44.079
years to get there. It's gonna we're gonna find kind
582
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:47.240
of get a better feel for things soon. But I
583
00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:51.839
just can't tell. Because of the way he's framed. It
584
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:55.400
does come off like every time I think like, okay,
585
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:57.920
he's clearly a heel, it feels like they walk it back.
586
00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:01.200
They'll do they'll have some interview with him where he
587
00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:04.240
explains his logic and you're kind of like, okay, I
588
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:07.160
kind of get where he's coming from, and then he'll
589
00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:11.119
do something like last night with the comedian and what's
590
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:14.079
happening I don't know. I mean, it is the company
591
00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:16.519
that used to give a Steve Austin, like hitting stunners
592
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:17.559
on women and things like that.
593
00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:20.319
What is that kind of late era Austin when they
594
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:22.839
just sort of lost their way? Yeah, yeah, I remember
595
00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:24.319
I brought that up to Steve once and he just
596
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:26.400
kind of over the We weren't on camera, but I
597
00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:28.799
got a death stare, like he was like, I didn't
598
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:30.759
really like Steve when you you were, you know, giving
599
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:34.599
stunners to women, and just like, okay, I guess that
600
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:39.359
he doesn't want to talk about that. Oh you didn't,
601
00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:39.799
did you?
602
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:47.200
Is that happening? They think, like all the heel stuff,
603
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:51.359
that's what makes Roman cool, and then you've got see
604
00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:55.880
him Punk has just disappeared completely and it's it's not
605
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:59.440
like the announcers are even talking about him. So that
606
00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:02.759
makes a little considering he was Roman's last huge opponent
607
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:08.440
and fond too. See, I wasn't sure who they wanted
608
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:10.240
us to like when he was few when we had
609
00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:13.519
the two matches with Roman. It's just all out there
610
00:31:13.799 --> 00:31:17.039
and if they can keep people watching to see where
611
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:18.920
it goes, great, But I don't know if they're even
612
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:21.279
telling enough of a story that a more casual fan
613
00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:23.599
is going to have any idea that this is going side.
614
00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:26.880
This is what it is. And Roman like him if
615
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:29.240
you think he's cool, and if not, I guess you
616
00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:34.039
just care for his opponent. Yeah.
617
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:36.079
If you're listening to us on the Apple podcast app,
618
00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:38.160
on Spotify, or any other app that allows you to
619
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:40.119
rate our podcast, please take a moment to give us
620
00:31:40.119 --> 00:31:42.279
a five star rating. It really helps us in the
621
00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:46.160
algorithm and helps them know that you recommend us to others.
622
00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:48.160
Just look for a place to rate the show on Spotify,
623
00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:50.440
on Apple podcasts or wherever you're listening to our shows,
624
00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:52.640
and please click that five star rating, and of course
625
00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:57.960
thank you so much for listening. I'm going to talk
626
00:31:57.960 --> 00:31:59.920
about it and speculate about it, but I don't have
627
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:02.480
certitude for a lot of the reasons that you talked
628
00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:05.599
that you just mentioned, which is, you know, I think
629
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:07.880
there's a lot of things do Toby is doing well,
630
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:11.480
and you know, pieces here and there. But philosophically, if
631
00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:17.240
their idea is why shove and pie face a celebrity
632
00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:20.440
when we can brutally beat them up because more is better?
633
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:23.279
If that is their philosophy, and they're not thinking any
634
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:25.279
deeper about how that affects the narrative structure, about how
635
00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:28.000
everybody reacts and sets the tone for the show, And
636
00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:30.000
it's like if they're if that's not crossing their mind
637
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:33.319
and they just you know, think, I mean to to me,
638
00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:35.440
what they did, just kind of going back to Eric conray,
639
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:37.799
that to me is like if you're reading a writer,
640
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:41.319
if you're reading somebody and then you scroll down to
641
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:43.160
the second half the article and they decide to really
642
00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:45.599
make their point, they're going to increase the font size,
643
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:48.920
Like wait, no, no, no, you don't nobody does that.
644
00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:51.960
That's hack. You don't. You don't. You don't start flashing
645
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:55.680
red red size, you know, sixteen fond when you've been
646
00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:59.599
using nine, Like, that's hack, that's amateur hour. We don't
647
00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:02.079
do that your words. And to me, what they did
648
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:04.200
to Eric Andre felt like that that you're reading a
649
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:05.960
writer who seems like they know what they're doing, and
650
00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:07.720
then suddenly they just go to make my point, I'm
651
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:09.559
gonna increase the fond size and make it flashing right
652
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:12.240
in your face, like have some be a grown up
653
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:15.680
and have some discipline or own it. And they didn't
654
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:17.640
own it. And that's the point. So that does cause
655
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:18.960
me to lose a little bit of faith that they
656
00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:22.599
just might be thinking, they might not be thinking, Oh yeah,
657
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:28.079
Roman is actually by definition a narcissist prick who's delighting
658
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:31.519
and beating up a non civilian in a grotesque overreaction,
659
00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:38.039
all in the service of taking pleasure and turning Jacob
660
00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:41.319
Vatu into a from a stand up guy who had
661
00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:46.319
rehabilitated and redeemed himself into this monster who's going to
662
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:51.880
serve his needs and prove that Roman can control him. Like,
663
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:57.279
if all you're thinking about is that narrow. Roman Reigns
664
00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:00.319
is taking satisfaction that he can control someone comes at
665
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:02.240
the expense of so many other things. Then I start,
666
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:03.799
Then it does feel like things are unwrappling, and I
667
00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:06.359
don't have faith in the story. But that's more pessimistic
668
00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:08.840
than I want to be, and that frankly I feel
669
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:10.480
I think they might have a slip up here and there,
670
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:12.800
but I think they're telling a compelling story. But I
671
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:16.400
wanted to land on what I think is best for business,
672
00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:20.639
which is Roman Reigns as a clear cut, defined heel.
673
00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:23.119
And you'll know when the announcers start actually saying the
674
00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:26.239
obvious things about how he acts, then we'll know they
675
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:29.880
want us to do him. And when he not insults
676
00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:32.840
the audience in a hackway like it, oh, Dallas, Texas sucks,
677
00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:36.000
you know, the stars, how they do in the playoffs,
678
00:34:36.039 --> 00:34:38.239
like all that hack heel stuff. He's not gonna do that,
679
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:41.199
but things that define him as a heel where crowds go,
680
00:34:41.239 --> 00:34:43.480
wait a second, we're just changing your name and now
681
00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:47.599
you don't appreciate us. That's a sign. And then also
682
00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:51.719
Jacob fat too should be a babyface. And I know
683
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:53.559
we got Opa Femi as a breakout star as a
684
00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:56.280
baby face. But Jacob can be in that mix too,
685
00:34:56.559 --> 00:34:59.199
and I think they have something with him that's very
686
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:03.159
different than Oba. But I think people want to cheer
687
00:35:03.159 --> 00:35:05.199
that guy, and I think he is a good babyface
688
00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:08.159
who keeps a kind of a stone cold esque edge
689
00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:10.960
to him. So to me, that should be the landing place.
690
00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:12.679
What they do with Jimmy and Jay I don't care
691
00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:15.079
as much, but you know, I think they've earned their
692
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:18.000
TV time their characters with the history, and I think
693
00:35:18.039 --> 00:35:20.519
they're both good at playing their current roles. Got Elle
694
00:35:20.599 --> 00:35:24.119
Nidas a supporting babyface, you know whatever. So obviously there's
695
00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:28.280
still Cody, there's Punk, Jamon Evans, Trick Williams, whatever, on
696
00:35:28.360 --> 00:35:31.039
and on. They have enough babyfaces to kind of fill
697
00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:33.679
things out. But to me, Fac two, you don't want
698
00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:35.639
him to be like this for too long. You want
699
00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:38.639
there to be a point where he goes, wait a second,
700
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:42.159
that's too much, Which is what's disappointing about the over
701
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:44.599
the top attack of the celebrity.
702
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:46.360
Say that again.
703
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:49.119
That's what's disappointing about the over the top attack of
704
00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:51.719
the celebrity is it put Fat two in a position
705
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.039
where it's hard, it's hard for him later to do
706
00:35:55.159 --> 00:35:59.199
something that he says that's too much. Sure, because he's
707
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:02.840
already done something that's too much. Now, yeah, if next
708
00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:06.840
week he goes to Roman, man, I'm ashamed. I like
709
00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:09.800
that was old. That was old, Jacob, you triggered something
710
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:12.840
in me. I've been pacing back and forth. I have worked.
711
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:14.159
You know, like, you don't want him to be like,
712
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:15.760
you know, sappy about it. You don't want to turn
713
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:18.639
it about backlin, but there can be an expression of like, man,
714
00:36:18.679 --> 00:36:20.679
you brought something out in me that I grew out of,
715
00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:23.480
and then I was proud that I wasn't that person anymore.
716
00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:25.760
In Roman, don't I don't want you to cheering me
717
00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:27.840
on doing that. You put me in a different place,
718
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:32.800
like something that causes Jacob to feel regret. I like,
719
00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:34.920
I'm okay with that as the next chapter in this
720
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:39.519
because then it shows okay, he's trying, and you know,
721
00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:42.679
he had a temper and Roman got him worked up.
722
00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:44.760
He was excited to be welcome to the family. But
723
00:36:44.840 --> 00:36:47.159
when then when the adrenaline dropped, he's like, wait, that's
724
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:48.480
not who I want to be anymore. And I think
725
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:50.639
I think you know you want him to use that
726
00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:54.159
against people who deserve it, not civilians who maybe you know,
727
00:36:54.440 --> 00:36:57.280
disrespected you in a way that they shouldn't have. But
728
00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:00.000
that's a pie face or a shove, not a brutal attack.
729
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:03.760
H yeah, is it is? That? What fans want from
730
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:08.000
Vatu though, is him being unpredictable and not having remorse.
731
00:37:09.559 --> 00:37:13.599
I think I think the babyface should have some compass
732
00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:17.079
that fans admire, and I think Jacob can get away
733
00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:19.599
with it because he's so he has so much innate
734
00:37:19.639 --> 00:37:23.559
street cred and intensity. But I think people want to
735
00:37:23.559 --> 00:37:27.800
see him use it appropriately. So it's not oh, I
736
00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:30.599
want to be soft, it's I want to be hard
737
00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:34.840
edged and take it take and I want to put
738
00:37:34.840 --> 00:37:37.519
people in their place who deserve it. And Eric didn't
739
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:40.360
deserve that for what he did. I mean, yeah, I
740
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:44.119
think it's okay to have a guy who takes, who
741
00:37:44.199 --> 00:37:45.880
has that edge to him, but only takes it out
742
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:47.800
on people where it's appropriate. I think that's what defines
743
00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:48.920
somebody who's worthy of chairing.
744
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:53.559
I just don't think they're going there. I think it's
745
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:56.880
just gonna Well, he dared touch the second ul of fall.
746
00:37:56.880 --> 00:37:59.920
Why there's two now, I don't know, but I think
747
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:02.840
you know he how dare he? And it'll just that's
748
00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:04.280
how they're going to justify.
749
00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:11.639
This interesting Yeah, do gir with me that, uh, that
750
00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:16.199
Jacob can be a great baby face and they should
751
00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:19.039
protect what they have in that and not ruin it
752
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:21.599
to serve a storyline with Roman and the usas.
753
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:24.280
Absolutely, I think Jacob can be a great baby face.
754
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:26.320
I think Jacob can be a great heal whatever you
755
00:38:26.360 --> 00:38:28.920
want Jacob to be. I think he is very capable
756
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:32.719
of it. But if that's the direction, if they if
757
00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:35.079
that's the whatever, whatever gonna make them the most money
758
00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:36.840
is obviously the direction they're gonna want to go in.
759
00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:38.880
And I do think Fox two, it's a baby face,
760
00:38:38.920 --> 00:38:45.639
makes a lot of sense. The fans are with him.
761
00:38:43.159 --> 00:38:45.559
All right, let's uh, let's shift away from anything else
762
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:46.960
on blodline. By the way, Actually, well I was.
763
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:50.599
Gonna one other thing with Roman giving him this new
764
00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:55.800
Ulafalla and Jay especially being very jealous. Then you had
765
00:38:55.800 --> 00:39:00.719
the Roman sending the message to SmackDown that solo to
766
00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:05.440
come home. Are they setting up some big, one massive
767
00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:08.920
bloodline or is this maybe a sign that the usos
768
00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:09.800
are the odd ones yet?
769
00:39:11.159 --> 00:39:17.639
I don't know. I think I don't I'm puzzing because
770
00:39:17.639 --> 00:39:20.599
I don't want my bias to be part of my prediction,
771
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:24.440
but I don't want Solo being an integral part of
772
00:39:24.440 --> 00:39:27.199
this story. I kind of want after the King of
773
00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:29.880
the Ring inter brand opponent mixing is over, I just
774
00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:32.320
kind of want a more solid brand split and tell
775
00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:34.360
whatever story I gonna tell with Solo and Rice Keys
776
00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:36.639
and move them away, and I want it to be
777
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:41.840
more La Knight is saying things that make sense to
778
00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:44.679
speculate about, but it turns out in the in that
779
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:48.639
case it dissipates or he was wrong, and Solo and
780
00:39:49.159 --> 00:39:52.320
talland I'm just kind of do their own thing. I
781
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:55.079
don't I'm not. I'm not sure I'm like right that
782
00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:57.400
that's where it's going. But yeah, I don't believe in
783
00:39:57.559 --> 00:40:01.239
Solo as as Roman's equal. I don't think I'm I'm
784
00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:03.320
not super down and sold. I think he's actually, you know,
785
00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:06.800
he's fine and as a kind of you know, second
786
00:40:06.920 --> 00:40:12.239
level utility leader of a heel faction, and I'm fine
787
00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:15.199
with that. But I think I don't think. I don't
788
00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:18.880
think the audience is sitting here going Oh. The real
789
00:40:18.920 --> 00:40:21.039
thing I'm interested in is where does Solo stand on
790
00:40:21.079 --> 00:40:24.000
all this, but maybe he's an important player in the
791
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:25.719
story that they want to tell and that'll play out.
792
00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:29.000
But yeah, I just found it interesting that, you know,
793
00:40:29.079 --> 00:40:31.320
Roman sent that message that it's time for Sola to
794
00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:34.440
come home, Like, oh, all right, maybe there's something here.
795
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:37.039
It could have just been so that Solo can reject it.
796
00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:40.840
And this is all leading to Solo's inferior bloodline against
797
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:43.599
Roman's bloodline and at Helena cell or something like that
798
00:40:43.639 --> 00:40:47.559
somewhere down the road or I'm sorry, yeah, thank you Wargans.
799
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:53.239
Yeah, yeah, I'm trying. I'm like, is it, like, how
800
00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:59.559
does it even break down? Like what is it? Tala Tauma, Solo, Rice,
801
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:10.119
Key and Jimmy against Roman and Jay and fought too,
802
00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:13.760
and I don't you know what I mean, like, don't I.
803
00:41:13.639 --> 00:41:17.079
Would guess that it's it's where they stand now, it's
804
00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:19.480
I mean with with you know, Keys being added probably
805
00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:20.639
to the Solo team.
806
00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:23.119
So yeah, that there is a four and four naturally
807
00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:23.599
there then.
808
00:41:24.039 --> 00:41:27.639
Yeah, and they like to go five. So does l A.
809
00:41:27.880 --> 00:41:30.960
Knight sign up for Solo's team for one night or something.
810
00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:32.599
I mean, we're we're looking way down the road here
811
00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:35.360
at Survivor series. But I do think it's probably the
812
00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:36.760
wheels are already in motion for that.
813
00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:37.760
Yeah.
814
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:41.039
Yeah, I'm Chris Maitland.
815
00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:42.320
I'm Justin McClellan.
816
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:45.840
We host Wrestling Coast to Coast, a podcast independent wrestling.
817
00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:47.159
Every week Chris.
818
00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:49.400
And I review a different show or talk about important
819
00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:51.679
topics from around the indie wrestling world.
820
00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:54.760
Learn about the hot underground stars and the future main eventors.
821
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:57.320
For anyone else, you can reach us at Torch Coast
822
00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:00.280
to Coast at gmail dot com and me on Bluey
823
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:01.360
at Mind of Maitland.
824
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:04.639
You can reach me at Blue Sky at Justin McClelland.
825
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:07.719
Find the show on your PW torch daily Cast podcast feed,
826
00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:11.440
search PW torch on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you
827
00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:12.400
listen to podcasts.
828
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:17.400
Also stream the latest shows on pwtorch dot com.
829
00:42:18.039 --> 00:42:23.239
All right, so we have a big weekend just over.
830
00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:25.480
We can have a way a lot of events. One
831
00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:30.159
of them is Aw's Forbidden Door and we have the
832
00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:32.280
Owen Heart Tournament to talk. We've talked about King of
833
00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:33.519
the Rings so far, we have talked Queen of the Ring.
834
00:42:33.599 --> 00:42:38.519
We should likely get to that, but will ospray Sward Strickland.
835
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:42.239
Is there enough suspense here in terms of what happens
836
00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:46.679
between these two does it matter? And maybe more importantly,
837
00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:48.960
to complicate the question, just what have you thought of
838
00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:52.840
what they've been doing with will Ospray as somebody who
839
00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:56.280
looks like he's going to be the co top star
840
00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:57.800
in aw along with MJF.
841
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:02.159
I mean, I do think it's looking pretty predictable, and
842
00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:05.280
we'll see what they do between the next two weeks
843
00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:08.000
if there's if they plan to do something to make
844
00:43:08.039 --> 00:43:11.360
it seem like Osbury's backs against the wall and injury
845
00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:15.800
angle or something like that. I just with their fan
846
00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:18.360
base especially, I think people know where it's going. But
847
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:20.840
the important thing is that they're happy with the direction,
848
00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:22.760
and so I think they're going to play it long.
849
00:43:23.239 --> 00:43:25.719
I don't think there's going to be I mean, it's
850
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:28.400
on the wrestlers to try to create that drama within
851
00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:30.920
the match. Can they pull off near balls that people
852
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:34.039
actually think might win war? Is it going to be
853
00:43:34.039 --> 00:43:35.920
The fans are kind of sitting on their hands for it.
854
00:43:36.039 --> 00:43:39.320
They're both very talented and so I think they can
855
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:41.880
pull that off. But it's going to be a challenge
856
00:43:41.960 --> 00:43:44.159
just because I think everybody just looks and oh Osprey
857
00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:46.360
London Yep, this has got to be the year, and
858
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:49.320
I think it should be. So yeah, we saw a
859
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:52.960
lot of predictable roads to WrestleMania too, and if it
860
00:43:53.079 --> 00:43:55.639
was the right thing for business at the time, then
861
00:43:55.880 --> 00:43:57.480
it's hard to argue with. And that's kind of how
862
00:43:57.519 --> 00:43:59.280
I look at this. And what was the other part of.
863
00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:03.840
That is from a standpoint of they're doing what good
864
00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:10.400
They're they're optimizing where Osprey can land as a top
865
00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:14.679
clear cut, top babyface co co top star in aw
866
00:44:14.800 --> 00:44:18.119
along with mjf is the death writer story, the vignettes,
867
00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:23.639
the earnest promos from Osprey setting him up to be
868
00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:32.159
perceived by ae W fans as our guy are you know,
869
00:44:32.199 --> 00:44:34.599
even at DAR I say our Obafemi like our our
870
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:39.880
top new centerpiece babyface act for my era, for this generation.
871
00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:44.159
So I think Osprey has settled in compared to where
872
00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:47.119
he was. Like I think it was the last time
873
00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:50.639
they were in London and there was some thought that hey,
874
00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:52.320
maybe this will be the year, and I didn't mind
875
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:54.239
them waiting, you know, kind of like Cody losing the
876
00:44:54.239 --> 00:44:56.039
first year at Manny is not such a bad thing
877
00:44:56.079 --> 00:44:59.119
to put that off. But I do think that he
878
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:02.719
was just in sane of aw at that time, whereas
879
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:05.960
since then again he settled in, but he settled in
880
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:07.880
a good place. So I don't know that you're going
881
00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:10.320
to get that phenom feel for him having been with
882
00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:12.639
the company as long as he has now, But I
883
00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:17.360
do think that he is the right choice, and more
884
00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:21.760
than anything, I hope they stick with him because that
885
00:45:21.960 --> 00:45:24.239
they've been playing hot potato with that title for too long.
886
00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:27.559
They've had some unnecessary title changes in my opinion, and
887
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:28.960
I think they would have been in a much better
888
00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:31.760
place had they just kept the title on MJF this
889
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:35.599
entire time and built to that big showdown match between
890
00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:40.639
the two instead of having those quickie title rings that Okay,
891
00:45:40.760 --> 00:45:42.800
it was fun in the moment, but it doesn't serve
892
00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:43.639
your bigger story.
893
00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:48.440
Yeah. Yeah, I think MGF being a rock solid heel
894
00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:52.199
at this point and not wavering and hopefully they're not
895
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:56.000
heading towards any wavering and then Ospray being the lead
896
00:45:56.039 --> 00:45:58.519
babyface and like you said, waiting a little bit making
897
00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:00.960
people want it. But I think he's also own as
898
00:46:02.360 --> 00:46:05.360
a character who's been through, like like with Cody, you know,
899
00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:09.119
some some setbacks and trying to regroup and then adding
900
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:11.639
you know the next thing, which got a little you know,
901
00:46:11.639 --> 00:46:14.159
melodramatic or over the top or whatever for a little
902
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:16.159
bit of the way. But tab now the death writer's going,
903
00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:19.239
all right, we're gonna give you a ground attack in
904
00:46:19.239 --> 00:46:21.519
addition to an aerial attack and a little bit of
905
00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:26.679
a killer instinct. It gives Ospray's character a new layer.
906
00:46:27.159 --> 00:46:29.760
That's that I think is kind of compelling incredible at
907
00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:32.760
the same time. Ye so, and he does seem like
908
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:36.639
he's grown up from a kind of a overgrown early
909
00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:39.320
twenties something who needs to grow up to a man
910
00:46:39.800 --> 00:46:43.280
who now stands for something. And he represents what AEW
911
00:46:43.719 --> 00:46:49.519
stands for. And MGF can be representing MGF wants AW
912
00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:53.159
to represent to stand for him as a narcissist who's
913
00:46:53.199 --> 00:46:56.400
out for himself. And Osprey is that that opposite opposing force.
914
00:46:56.440 --> 00:46:58.320
And I think that's a good spot for AW to
915
00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:02.000
be in. And then obviously you have top tier satellite
916
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:04.400
players in the mix of Hangman Page. Come when when
917
00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:07.639
Hangman Page comes back and say, yeah, uh Swarve Strickland,
918
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:11.800
Kenny Omega, there are enough and John Moxy's always there.
919
00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:14.599
Uh Darby is a utility guy who you can visit
920
00:47:14.679 --> 00:47:17.480
main events. It's it's a nice you know, it's it's
921
00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:19.920
it's a nice mix. But I think MJF and Osprey
922
00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:24.000
are the right choice above Hangman or Swerve or Kenny
923
00:47:24.760 --> 00:47:28.840
or Darby or Mosley. Am I forgetting anybody else who
924
00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:30.360
would be a candidate to be world Champ?
925
00:47:31.400 --> 00:47:32.519
I don't think so.
926
00:47:32.880 --> 00:47:35.079
Yeah, But if I am you know people, no, no,
927
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:37.599
I'm including them too because it's thought of everybody on
928
00:47:37.639 --> 00:47:39.440
the roster at some point. I think those are the
929
00:47:39.480 --> 00:47:42.280
right two people. And I like I like ensemble, and
930
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:44.400
AW has been an ensemble company for a long time.
931
00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:46.840
But I think when you draw is you're like, you
932
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:49.880
need to pay to see Will Ospray. He's the best
933
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:53.280
in the world at what he does, and you want
934
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:54.639
to be there and be part of it. And you
935
00:47:54.679 --> 00:47:56.920
know their tenants isn't great, you know in a lot
936
00:47:57.000 --> 00:47:59.480
of these cities and even smaller venues, so you know,
937
00:47:59.480 --> 00:48:03.280
they need to make their wrestlers seem like big stars,
938
00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:06.440
and I think Ospray is somebody they should really focus
939
00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:08.039
on and not make it be oh, come for the
940
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:10.519
AW experience and are ensemble of stars. I think you
941
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:12.000
kind of want to make it the will Ospray show
942
00:48:12.039 --> 00:48:13.119
for a while and experiment with that.
943
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:16.760
I agree, Yeah, I think that's one area where they've
944
00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:21.239
been better too, with their champion being showcased more frequently.
945
00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:23.519
I mean, certainly Darby was a different type of story
946
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:25.800
where he was defending the title all the time. But
947
00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:28.920
MGFF is it's not the old MGF where Okay, he
948
00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:30.800
shows up for a pay per view, cuts a promo
949
00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:33.440
backstage to air Undynamite the next week and you don't
950
00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:37.239
see him for a while. This he's been frequently appear
951
00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:40.719
and I think that's a positive for them, But yeah,
952
00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:43.519
there is something amiss. I don't pretend to have the
953
00:48:43.559 --> 00:48:47.000
answers when it comes to framing their talent in a
954
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:50.400
way that does make them feel a little more larger
955
00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:53.239
than life. And I wonder if some of it, too,
956
00:48:53.440 --> 00:48:58.199
is pulling back on all the needlessly competitive matches on
957
00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:02.679
television and really spotlighting certain people at certain times and
958
00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:06.320
not making every match almost, you know, feels so competitive.
959
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:09.320
That's just one thing. But I mean the paper is
960
00:49:09.400 --> 00:49:12.320
drawn and everybody is able to enjoy going to those
961
00:49:12.440 --> 00:49:15.639
and it's just the weekly television. Yeah, how do you
962
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:18.840
make not only the wrestlers feel like stars, but also
963
00:49:19.480 --> 00:49:21.880
Dynamite feel like it's a place you need to be,
964
00:49:22.039 --> 00:49:24.519
like you want to be there in person to experience that.
965
00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:26.920
And I don't feel like they're selling us on that,
966
00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:30.000
and A I don't even know if they're really trying to.
967
00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:31.360
It's just here's where we're going to be.
968
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:34.880
I know it. It's tough. I remember Zane Preslof and
969
00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:37.519
the ww Nitra era. He was the one who innovated
970
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:40.480
the idea of the ticket launch being an event like
971
00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:42.960
as opposed to just announce the date and people's kind of,
972
00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:44.320
you know, buy it the week of the show or
973
00:49:44.320 --> 00:49:46.199
do walk ups. And obviously it's a different era now
974
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:48.599
you know concert tickets, it's it's a rush to the
975
00:49:48.719 --> 00:49:50.719
to online and you hit refreshed trying to get the
976
00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:52.559
ticket before all the brokers.
977
00:49:52.559 --> 00:49:55.599
And this generation will never experience the phone of camping
978
00:49:55.599 --> 00:49:57.559
out for concert tickets.
979
00:49:57.679 --> 00:50:01.000
Or going to the third floor of Dayton's this morning.
980
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:04.039
That's a ticket off as it's just crazy the way
981
00:50:04.079 --> 00:50:08.039
we bought tickets pre internet. Let's see, let me get
982
00:50:08.039 --> 00:50:12.199
back on track here. The oh so one thing that
983
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:16.519
they could do is actually have wrestlers who are on
984
00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:21.079
Dynamite but not wrestling wrestle dark matches after Dynamite goes
985
00:50:21.079 --> 00:50:24.079
off here. Yeah, I mean it's you know, it's kind
986
00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:26.920
of old school to do it. W doesn't feel like
987
00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:29.119
they have to, and in a way they don't. But
988
00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:33.440
that was normal for so long. Now the genesis of
989
00:50:33.480 --> 00:50:36.079
it was, oh, we're giving you three hours of squash matches.
990
00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:39.599
You deserve, you know, seeing one or two Star wars
991
00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:41.840
of star matches, and that was kind of the reason
992
00:50:41.880 --> 00:50:43.920
they did it, is you just you know, who's gonna
993
00:50:44.119 --> 00:50:46.039
No one's gonna want to sit through three hours of
994
00:50:46.039 --> 00:50:48.239
squash matches and not see a competitive match at the end.
995
00:50:48.360 --> 00:50:50.440
But it kind of carried over even for a while
996
00:50:50.679 --> 00:50:52.639
where it's like, Okay, thank you for coming. Now we've
997
00:50:52.639 --> 00:50:56.039
got this for you. And those dark matches were about
998
00:50:56.039 --> 00:50:59.840
the ring entrance, maybe one or two bumps and you know,
999
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:01.920
seven eight minutes, let's get in, let's get out, because
1000
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:03.719
it was late at night and people wanted to go home,
1001
00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:06.039
but you wanted to give them the stars. I don't
1002
00:51:06.039 --> 00:51:08.440
know if Tony Khn has an in them to have,
1003
00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:13.079
you know, a bonus Moxley swerve match and have it
1004
00:51:13.119 --> 00:51:15.039
only go eight minutes, not be special, but at least
1005
00:51:15.079 --> 00:51:18.159
you're giving people something extra, you know, an appearance of
1006
00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:22.239
top stars, ring entrances and all that. But I would
1007
00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:24.679
you know, modernize it, tweak it or whatever. But I
1008
00:51:24.679 --> 00:51:27.440
think that's something that would because online fans are you know,
1009
00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:29.800
Tony khn is going to believe everybody's online anyway, so
1010
00:51:29.960 --> 00:51:32.880
online fans are gonna under are going to learn. Okay,
1011
00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:36.400
if I go to Dynamite, I'm getting an experience that
1012
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:40.199
is different than my one hundred and fifty dollars sixty
1013
00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:44.239
five inch four KTV with surround sound, with the comfort
1014
00:51:44.239 --> 00:51:46.960
of my couch, no lines for the bathroom, and cheap snacks.
1015
00:51:47.519 --> 00:51:49.679
As Nick Barbatti says, it's hard to get him out
1016
00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:53.320
of his house to watch wrestling now because you know, one,
1017
00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:55.440
you get out of your twenties and you're just less adventurous.
1018
00:51:56.519 --> 00:51:59.159
And two it's really expensive, although Dynamite less so than
1019
00:51:59.159 --> 00:52:02.719
not to be obviously. And three the experience at home
1020
00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:05.559
is so much better, and so you've got to entice
1021
00:52:05.599 --> 00:52:08.519
people to go pay for parking and take an evening out.
1022
00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:11.199
There is a core group who will, but sometimes that's
1023
00:52:11.280 --> 00:52:13.960
only a couple thousand people right now in some major markets.
1024
00:52:14.519 --> 00:52:19.199
So advertise you are going to see any It's hard
1025
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:21.360
to do the localized stuff because you're on national cable,
1026
00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:25.400
but publicized locally. There will be a bonus match John
1027
00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:27.000
Moxley wants, you know, it's going to take on Sorce
1028
00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:28.639
Circle or whatever. I just throw that match out there,
1029
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:30.840
or even two matches the Young Bucks will be taken
1030
00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:33.679
on FTR like they're just matches you can give away
1031
00:52:33.719 --> 00:52:35.159
that are sort of not giving away a pay per
1032
00:52:35.199 --> 00:52:37.079
view match that makes people go, all right, I'm getting
1033
00:52:37.079 --> 00:52:39.280
an extra half hour of content that will get me
1034
00:52:39.280 --> 00:52:39.880
out of my chair.
1035
00:52:40.599 --> 00:52:43.000
Yeah, And I think for that audience there's going to
1036
00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:44.960
be some disappointment that it's you know, like it's eight
1037
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:48.480
minute matches or whatever. But it worked for years for WWI,
1038
00:52:48.679 --> 00:52:50.920
And I mean after a while, if you have enough
1039
00:52:50.920 --> 00:52:52.880
of a fan, you know what the formula is. You know,
1040
00:52:53.320 --> 00:52:55.920
obviously you're I'm not going to see a title change
1041
00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:59.119
if there's a dark title match whatever. But it's still
1042
00:52:59.480 --> 00:53:03.320
it gets people in the door, and that's the important thing.
1043
00:53:03.719 --> 00:53:08.199
And then like the being there in person is fun. Yep,
1044
00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:12.320
they just haven't found a way to really sell people
1045
00:53:12.360 --> 00:53:15.719
on what the in person experience is like. And again
1046
00:53:15.719 --> 00:53:17.920
I don't pretend to have the answers, but there's just
1047
00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:21.400
something missing about the way they're presenting themselves.
1048
00:53:21.199 --> 00:53:23.800
For years for a w before Dodey is doing it,
1049
00:53:24.679 --> 00:53:27.360
I said, AW should be filming fans outside the arena
1050
00:53:27.400 --> 00:53:30.199
wearing the merch, going nuts. Yeah, show fans at home.
1051
00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:33.519
Who the AW fans are that demographic? That's me. I
1052
00:53:33.559 --> 00:53:35.800
see myself in those fans. I want to be excited
1053
00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:37.960
before the show. I want to meet other fans of
1054
00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:40.920
will Ospray, other fans of Kenny Omega, other fans of
1055
00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:44.679
the Young Bucks and Mark Briscoe and whomever. They don't
1056
00:53:44.679 --> 00:53:47.440
do that. Tony Kahan is not a visionary when it
1057
00:53:47.480 --> 00:53:49.840
comes to the optics of how to present wrestling, and
1058
00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:51.920
Doby now has taken that and they do it almost
1059
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:54.320
every week. They go to a clip from you know,
1060
00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:56.639
half far before the show started, of fans gathering outside
1061
00:53:56.679 --> 00:54:00.079
the arena for a camera going Nutsdoby is conveying to
1062
00:54:00.199 --> 00:54:03.880
their fans there is great joy and camaraderie that comes
1063
00:54:03.920 --> 00:54:05.920
with going to the show, and part of it is
1064
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:08.199
just congregating with fans before you go in the building.
1065
00:54:08.719 --> 00:54:11.559
The AW is terrible at that, and it's so it
1066
00:54:11.639 --> 00:54:14.760
was frustrating and listened to mild post shows and Keller hotlines,
1067
00:54:14.760 --> 00:54:16.440
and some people who don't care about that stuff just
1068
00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:18.159
sort of like, wait, what are you talking about. Well,
1069
00:54:18.440 --> 00:54:20.519
every other sport does it in w' is now doing it,
1070
00:54:20.559 --> 00:54:23.880
so I wasn't crazy and thinking it's important. It is important.
1071
00:54:23.920 --> 00:54:26.599
It was a lost opportunity for AW, but there are
1072
00:54:26.719 --> 00:54:28.760
other things that they can do that doesn't look like
1073
00:54:28.760 --> 00:54:31.199
they're just copying WWE because they're too late to do
1074
00:54:31.239 --> 00:54:34.679
it and they ought to do it. Yeah, Jason, Yeah, I.
1075
00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:37.639
Was gonna say, I think you you nailed it when
1076
00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:39.679
you said other sports are doing it, because I think
1077
00:54:39.719 --> 00:54:42.559
this was something Lea Fitting brought over from his college
1078
00:54:42.559 --> 00:54:46.960
football days producing college football at ESPN. It's very similar.
1079
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:48.719
Even when you look at like.
1080
00:54:48.679 --> 00:54:51.800
Theirtless college kids with you know, with the letters painted
1081
00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:54.639
on their chests, that kind of thing, right, Yeah.
1082
00:54:54.119 --> 00:54:58.639
They're missing that, but yeah, it does feel like AW
1083
00:54:58.920 --> 00:55:02.559
just I don't know they here's the ring, here's the matches.
1084
00:55:02.599 --> 00:55:04.679
There's a little too much of that, and there is
1085
00:55:04.719 --> 00:55:07.159
so much passion, especially at those pay per view events
1086
00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:10.800
that you can tap into and get over to your
1087
00:55:10.840 --> 00:55:12.920
audience at home that makes you feel like you want
1088
00:55:12.920 --> 00:55:15.079
to be there. I think with the pay per views,
1089
00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:17.239
it's because the matches are so good people want to
1090
00:55:17.239 --> 00:55:19.119
be there. You know, they have such a good reputation
1091
00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:24.280
for that, and that's great, But I don't think it's enough. Well,
1092
00:55:24.320 --> 00:55:26.400
we're seeing it's not enough for TV. They've had a
1093
00:55:26.440 --> 00:55:28.199
lot of great matches on TV too, and it's not
1094
00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:30.880
enough to get more than two three thousand in most markets.
1095
00:55:30.920 --> 00:55:34.119
So what do you do? And I think your suggestion
1096
00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:37.400
of just making it feel bigger and more fun and
1097
00:55:37.480 --> 00:55:40.679
all of that is great, and it's I don't know
1098
00:55:40.719 --> 00:55:44.360
if Tony's ever gonna make that change. I think he
1099
00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:47.119
needs people around him that have an eye on those
1100
00:55:47.159 --> 00:55:49.079
things and can get through to him. Because you're right,
1101
00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:51.960
I don't think that's something Tony spends a lot of
1102
00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:54.679
time thinking about. But I think it is very valuable.
1103
00:55:55.159 --> 00:56:00.760
And I mean they have an audience that it seems younger,
1104
00:56:02.280 --> 00:56:06.760
and I guess on the opposite side of things, I
1105
00:56:06.800 --> 00:56:11.119
gotta say, like quit with the Jericho Judas, it's over,
1106
00:56:11.320 --> 00:56:12.400
Like the thrill is gone.
1107
00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:15.440
It is a little Sady's searching. They're searching for the
1108
00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:17.239
two old guys who are still thinking it.
1109
00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:20.280
Well and when you show them, it's like, oh, you're
1110
00:56:20.320 --> 00:56:23.320
still doing this and you guys actually know the words. Still,
1111
00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:27.119
it was fun for a while, it really worked, but
1112
00:56:27.239 --> 00:56:29.760
now it feels like you're seeing a rerun and that's
1113
00:56:29.880 --> 00:56:32.599
not what they should be going for. So somebody needs
1114
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:35.280
to get through to Jericho that like, okay, it's time
1115
00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:36.360
to come out to something different.
1116
00:56:36.360 --> 00:56:39.880
But by the way, just quick sidebar, how have you
1117
00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:43.559
felt about Jericho's act. I feel like I'm I've been
1118
00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:48.599
sort of maybe surprisingly okay if if if not, sort
1119
00:56:48.639 --> 00:56:51.880
of more than okay with him just kind of going
1120
00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:55.480
to the bank of tricks to agitate a heel, because
1121
00:56:55.519 --> 00:56:57.400
I think it's it's, you know, it's a mid card
1122
00:56:57.480 --> 00:56:59.199
thing he's doing, you know, or upper mid card thing
1123
00:56:59.239 --> 00:57:01.800
he's doing, And I think it's sort of a lost
1124
00:57:02.280 --> 00:57:07.280
art to have heels just agitated by a baby face.
1125
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:09.119
Not all the material hits, Like I think, you know,
1126
00:57:09.920 --> 00:57:12.880
it's roughly fifty to fifty, you know, like what is
1127
00:57:12.920 --> 00:57:14.599
clever and what isn't, or what's kind of working and
1128
00:57:14.679 --> 00:57:16.840
what isn't, And so there's moments you're sort of feeling
1129
00:57:16.840 --> 00:57:18.679
sad for Jericho, and those are other times you're like, oh, yeah,
1130
00:57:18.719 --> 00:57:21.159
that's what made him a star who weinvented himself so much.
1131
00:57:21.480 --> 00:57:24.920
I'm not saying it's great, but I think it's something
1132
00:57:24.920 --> 00:57:28.039
that is not a bad ingredient. You know, every second
1133
00:57:28.119 --> 00:57:30.599
or third week on AWTV. To have Jericho kind of
1134
00:57:30.639 --> 00:57:32.840
doing that stick and I think there are some things
1135
00:57:32.840 --> 00:57:36.760
that are timeless as a craftsman, baby face, agitating heels
1136
00:57:37.039 --> 00:57:39.360
that other people can kind of learn from. So but
1137
00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:43.320
other people I know are just like, oh God, this
1138
00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:48.280
is just tired shtick and it's lame, and it's it's
1139
00:57:48.320 --> 00:57:50.480
it's you know, kind of sad to see Jericho doing this,
1140
00:57:50.519 --> 00:57:51.760
so kind of where are you on that?
1141
00:57:52.519 --> 00:57:56.639
I think it worked with Ricochet. I don't like it
1142
00:57:56.679 --> 00:57:59.440
with champas so far, because Champion is a different type
1143
00:57:59.440 --> 00:58:01.880
of keel, you know. I want more of a serious
1144
00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:07.000
Champa that's just out for blood and more no nonsense,
1145
00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:10.320
and he's just playing a dopey heel who's falling for
1146
00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:14.159
all of Jericho's cornball gags. And that's really been a
1147
00:58:14.199 --> 00:58:14.880
turn off for me.
1148
00:58:15.480 --> 00:58:18.320
I taking impression this of what Champa wanted, like that problem,
1149
00:58:18.360 --> 00:58:20.519
like he's been itching to play this type of heel.
1150
00:58:20.840 --> 00:58:23.679
I'm I'm I'm not endorsing it or or I'm not
1151
00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:25.800
neither praising or criticizing it, but like, I don't I
1152
00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:29.400
don't get the sense Champ is an unwilling, a dopey heel.
1153
00:58:29.480 --> 00:58:31.280
I like, this seems like he wanted to play sports
1154
00:58:31.400 --> 00:58:33.719
entertainer more than you know, vicious indie guy.
1155
00:58:34.360 --> 00:58:38.400
Yeah, And the problem is that's just mid cart And
1156
00:58:38.480 --> 00:58:41.239
I think not that these guys would be in the
1157
00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:44.199
main event, but I think if you set the right tone,
1158
00:58:44.320 --> 00:58:46.360
it can feel like a bigger part of the show.
1159
00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:49.840
Like I'm not anxious to see Jericho and Champa on
1160
00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:51.719
pay per view right now. I mean, they kind of
1161
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:53.679
flipped the switch last week to make a little more
1162
00:58:53.719 --> 00:58:56.760
serious at the end, So maybe that'll carry over and
1163
00:58:56.800 --> 00:58:59.440
they can sell me on that before the Forbidden Door show,
1164
00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:01.480
if that's where the to do that match. But right now,
1165
00:59:01.559 --> 00:59:04.280
to me, I feels like a TV match, and I
1166
00:59:04.320 --> 00:59:06.800
think it should be bigger than that. And I mean,
1167
00:59:06.840 --> 00:59:09.440
I give Jericho credit for not coming back and thinking
1168
00:59:09.519 --> 00:59:11.840
like I should be challenging for the world title on
1169
00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:15.039
these pay per views. He's I think the first goal
1170
00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:18.159
was to establish if he can actually get over his
1171
00:59:18.239 --> 00:59:21.760
baby face again, and I think he's done that more
1172
00:59:21.800 --> 00:59:24.280
successfully than I think a lot of people would have anticipated.
1173
00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:27.719
He's not over in a massive way, but he's not
1174
00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:31.280
getting booed, and that was the big concern, yes, and
1175
00:59:31.599 --> 00:59:35.039
now that he's kind of cleared that again, I don't
1176
00:59:35.039 --> 00:59:37.679
need to see him in the world title picture on
1177
00:59:37.719 --> 00:59:40.079
a regular basis or anything. I think you can get
1178
00:59:40.119 --> 00:59:42.960
a big TV main event out of him challenging for
1179
00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:45.679
the title if you build it up really well, but
1180
00:59:46.639 --> 00:59:51.760
it just doesn't feel I assume he's being paid handsomely,
1181
00:59:52.400 --> 00:59:55.519
and I would if he is, then I don't think
1182
00:59:55.559 --> 00:59:58.039
you're getting a great return on your investment with him
1183
00:59:58.119 --> 00:59:59.480
doing this midcard.
1184
00:59:59.079 --> 01:00:04.400
Stick Before pushing play on the Waight Keller Pro Wrestling
1185
01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:06.760
post shows, check out pw torch dot com and our
1186
01:00:06.800 --> 01:00:09.960
TV review section and skim through a full rundown of
1187
01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:11.719
the TV show if you didn't see it. That's your
1188
01:00:11.719 --> 01:00:14.199
way to get an overview of what happened before you
1189
01:00:14.280 --> 01:00:17.840
dive into our in depth analysis of the key happenings
1190
01:00:17.880 --> 01:00:20.480
on the show. That's pw torch dot com. You're home
1191
01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:23.920
for live TV coverage every Monday, Wednesday and Friday with
1192
01:00:23.960 --> 01:00:26.079
my TV reports, and also check out our NXT and
1193
01:00:26.119 --> 01:00:28.920
Impact coverage on Tuesdays and Thursdays, our Collision reports on
1194
01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:30.760
Saturday nights, and of course our live pay per view
1195
01:00:30.800 --> 01:00:33.760
and POE coverage on weekends, all waiting for you at
1196
01:00:33.800 --> 01:00:39.199
PW torch dot com. Forbid in Door lineup? How are
1197
01:00:39.239 --> 01:00:41.760
you feeling about the construction of this Because we've got
1198
01:00:42.039 --> 01:00:45.639
MGF against Mark Brisco with a bunch of partners in
1199
01:00:45.679 --> 01:00:48.119
a cage. So they fought each other before, but you
1200
01:00:48.199 --> 01:00:50.320
freshened it up by adding a bunch of people throwing
1201
01:00:50.320 --> 01:00:54.280
them in a cage. And then Tekla and the super
1202
01:00:54.320 --> 01:00:57.679
well known Starlight kid that's going to sell papers advise,
1203
01:00:59.480 --> 01:01:02.360
and then Kenny O, Meghan Zac Saber Junior. You know
1204
01:01:02.440 --> 01:01:05.400
true to that? I guess you know the initial spirit
1205
01:01:05.400 --> 01:01:08.519
of the Forbidden Door concept. Is that a strong enough
1206
01:01:08.599 --> 01:01:12.199
big four that they've plastered on social media? Or is
1207
01:01:12.199 --> 01:01:16.599
this Does this actually have potential to be a letdown
1208
01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:18.159
by rate wise for AW?
1209
01:01:19.400 --> 01:01:22.639
I think it does have the potential, but I think
1210
01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:24.440
a lot of it also has to do with all
1211
01:01:24.480 --> 01:01:27.480
of the shows that weekend, And you know it's not
1212
01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:29.960
one of those where, oh it doesn't matter how many
1213
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:32.239
shows there are, look at this lineup. I don't feel
1214
01:01:32.239 --> 01:01:35.440
like that about this one. I'm over the forbidden door concept,
1215
01:01:35.599 --> 01:01:38.519
Like it's great you have these people on all the time. Anyway,
1216
01:01:38.559 --> 01:01:39.920
it's not a big deal anymore.
1217
01:01:40.679 --> 01:01:44.360
Nothing forbidden about stardom wrestlers in the United States.
1218
01:01:44.840 --> 01:01:48.480
Yeah, I mean, hey, they're really talented to be I
1219
01:01:48.599 --> 01:01:50.920
need to get them over on television and quit assuming
1220
01:01:50.960 --> 01:01:55.079
that just because like there's some really knowledgeable wrestling fans
1221
01:01:55.079 --> 01:01:58.360
who watch Stardom that there's a massive number of them.
1222
01:01:58.400 --> 01:02:02.599
There's just not and to use them but present them well,
1223
01:02:02.719 --> 01:02:06.119
get them over and go from there. And every year
1224
01:02:06.159 --> 01:02:08.039
it just kind of feels like there's this mad rush
1225
01:02:08.079 --> 01:02:09.599
to get a bunch of people a little bit of
1226
01:02:09.599 --> 01:02:11.679
television time so that they can say they have them
1227
01:02:11.679 --> 01:02:14.000
on TV before Forbidden Door. But really, deep down, you
1228
01:02:14.039 --> 01:02:16.119
people should know who they are because you're super fans.
1229
01:02:16.159 --> 01:02:18.480
I mean that's how the show always comes across from me,
1230
01:02:18.719 --> 01:02:21.000
and I don't think it's a good thing. I'm not
1231
01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:27.320
big on this cage match, a single ring with twelve
1232
01:02:27.320 --> 01:02:31.679
guys fighting, Yeah, that sounds awful. I'm not into this.
1233
01:02:33.079 --> 01:02:35.119
I wonder I mean, if it were if it was
1234
01:02:35.159 --> 01:02:37.480
just a case of mgf's knee they're not sure this
1235
01:02:37.519 --> 01:02:39.960
will be easier for him. I get it, but really,
1236
01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:42.679
twelve people be you needed twelve.
1237
01:02:42.760 --> 01:02:45.280
In one cage? Yes, I don't even know how you
1238
01:02:45.280 --> 01:02:45.599
do that.
1239
01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:46.599
I don't either.
1240
01:02:47.199 --> 01:02:51.079
I mean, it feels like we're going to watch like
1241
01:02:51.480 --> 01:02:53.559
I'm going to feel the same anxiety I feel when
1242
01:02:53.719 --> 01:02:57.440
two people more than I want step onto an elevator. Right,
1243
01:02:57.760 --> 01:03:02.679
It's like, no, this is as I didn't know. I get, Yeah,
1244
01:03:02.679 --> 01:03:04.320
if they're protecting I mean, and that's the thing. I mean,
1245
01:03:04.400 --> 01:03:06.519
this is it's a it's a match we've seen. It's
1246
01:03:06.559 --> 01:03:09.880
a tag match that's trying to build up a rematch
1247
01:03:09.880 --> 01:03:13.280
of a match we've seen and freshen it up. You
1248
01:03:13.400 --> 01:03:16.280
wrap a cage around it. And obviously the focus is
1249
01:03:16.440 --> 01:03:20.480
MGFF and Mark Brisco. But is there a chance that
1250
01:03:20.639 --> 01:03:24.559
there's some subplot to this that sneaks up that explains
1251
01:03:24.679 --> 01:03:27.760
kind of why beyond oh or just want MGFF to
1252
01:03:27.800 --> 01:03:29.840
not have to work a full fledged singles match and
1253
01:03:29.840 --> 01:03:32.760
carry the load? Is it? Could something else come out
1254
01:03:32.760 --> 01:03:35.320
of this based on you know, obviously we know who
1255
01:03:35.320 --> 01:03:37.840
Briscal's partners are going to be, or that we know
1256
01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:39.679
his partners are likely to stay loyal to him. As
1257
01:03:39.719 --> 01:03:41.960
my point with MGF. Obviously he and I did like
1258
01:03:42.039 --> 01:03:44.519
last week's promo. He's like, friends don't matter. Oh suddenly
1259
01:03:44.599 --> 01:03:46.360
I need friends, like I kind of did, Like I
1260
01:03:46.360 --> 01:03:50.159
thought that was clever how they used mgf's you know words,
1261
01:03:50.199 --> 01:03:53.199
if I'm the all powerful and who needs friends, and
1262
01:03:53.239 --> 01:03:55.480
suddenly he's proven to not be all powerful and he's
1263
01:03:55.519 --> 01:03:59.199
suddenly needed at least allies. Although I hope I'm never
1264
01:03:59.239 --> 01:04:02.039
the person who's so unlikable that I have to carry
1265
01:04:02.079 --> 01:04:04.119
around a briefcase with cash at all times just in
1266
01:04:04.239 --> 01:04:06.039
case I need to bribe people to stand next to me.
1267
01:04:06.519 --> 01:04:07.280
What was that?
1268
01:04:07.519 --> 01:04:08.880
I know it was a little little corny.
1269
01:04:10.039 --> 01:04:12.760
I wish then, like somebody's gonna mug this port man
1270
01:04:12.800 --> 01:04:13.679
if they keep this up.
1271
01:04:14.079 --> 01:04:17.119
I do wish the announcers would have said. I think
1272
01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:19.760
it would have been fine and cannon and fun for
1273
01:04:19.880 --> 01:04:23.719
EXCaliber or TAZ or you know, just go. Does MGF
1274
01:04:23.760 --> 01:04:26.079
carry around a briefcase of cash all the time just
1275
01:04:26.119 --> 01:04:27.960
in case he needs to buy friends? Because he's that
1276
01:04:28.079 --> 01:04:30.639
off putting, like just own it, own the own this
1277
01:04:31.239 --> 01:04:33.360
ridiculousness of the fact that he just had a briefcase
1278
01:04:33.400 --> 01:04:33.880
ready to go.
1279
01:04:34.719 --> 01:04:36.639
It's a shame that like Wardlow is not with him
1280
01:04:36.639 --> 01:04:39.119
and you just like always have a briefcase handcuffed to
1281
01:04:39.159 --> 01:04:43.880
his wrist, right to be perfect. But I yeah, something
1282
01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:46.840
could happen, but I don't. I'm not getting my hopes
1283
01:04:46.920 --> 01:04:52.920
up because that's something I would go with Omega beating
1284
01:04:53.159 --> 01:04:55.880
MJF and that way you get your brisk go an
1285
01:04:55.960 --> 01:04:59.320
MJF TV match. But maybe you're setting up something with
1286
01:04:59.440 --> 01:05:02.440
MGF no Omega for a pay per view. Now. I'm
1287
01:05:02.480 --> 01:05:05.159
not in favor of the thought of that they should
1288
01:05:05.199 --> 01:05:07.079
move the title to Kenny Omega so we can have
1289
01:05:07.159 --> 01:05:09.920
Kenny Omega and we'll Ospray at when. I don't like
1290
01:05:09.960 --> 01:05:13.119
it because again, it's a ridiculously short title. Rain you
1291
01:05:13.159 --> 01:05:15.519
want that title to matter. It's the only singles title
1292
01:05:15.519 --> 01:05:19.039
in that company that I think actually matters, and on
1293
01:05:19.119 --> 01:05:21.880
the men's I don't mess with it. I think there
1294
01:05:21.960 --> 01:05:24.920
is going to be interest in Ospray and MJF, and
1295
01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:27.559
I think you certainly want to get to Omega and
1296
01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:33.199
Ospray at some point, but not at Wembley. I just
1297
01:05:33.239 --> 01:05:36.159
think you're moving too many things around. But I don't
1298
01:05:36.199 --> 01:05:38.039
rule it out weighed, especially if the idea is that
1299
01:05:38.159 --> 01:05:40.320
Nick Foley is going to get back in the ring
1300
01:05:40.360 --> 01:05:43.760
and do something with MJF. I could see them wanting
1301
01:05:43.800 --> 01:05:46.079
to do that at Wembley and actually moving the title
1302
01:05:46.119 --> 01:05:48.079
in advance. I'm not endorsing it, but I could see
1303
01:05:48.079 --> 01:05:50.840
it happening, so with Kenny not in that match, though,
1304
01:05:50.920 --> 01:05:53.480
the point is that I don't think it's I mean,
1305
01:05:53.519 --> 01:05:55.800
other things can happen, but I don't think it's necessarily
1306
01:05:55.800 --> 01:05:58.400
going to set up MGF with someone other than Briscoe.
1307
01:05:59.719 --> 01:06:01.400
I'm a fan of what they're doing with the don
1308
01:06:01.480 --> 01:06:05.519
Kallis family. I like an unch.
1309
01:06:06.519 --> 01:06:06.679
Well.
1310
01:06:07.320 --> 01:06:10.440
I like that it's different. It's not a faction of three, four,
1311
01:06:10.639 --> 01:06:14.880
five or six. It is this kind of outlier of justice,
1312
01:06:14.960 --> 01:06:21.599
this kind of I'm trying to find the right adjective bloated.
1313
01:06:22.599 --> 01:06:25.719
No it well, yes, but but in a way that's
1314
01:06:25.800 --> 01:06:29.239
that feels intentional and serves the notion that don Kallis
1315
01:06:29.400 --> 01:06:35.079
is just collecting anybody he can through bribes and payoffs,
1316
01:06:35.199 --> 01:06:37.159
and it in it and he's paying a price for
1317
01:06:37.199 --> 01:06:41.320
it because it is too large to control, and so
1318
01:06:41.440 --> 01:06:47.159
there's all this intra intra faction rivalry and tension that
1319
01:06:47.159 --> 01:06:50.880
that boils over. Now, should they would it be better
1320
01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:52.800
to have a little bit more of a clear definition
1321
01:06:52.880 --> 01:06:54.840
of of you know, what is Lance Archer's job and
1322
01:06:54.880 --> 01:06:56.639
is he content with it? You know, like give us
1323
01:06:57.480 --> 01:06:59.599
a little bit more of a definition of of how
1324
01:06:59.719 --> 01:07:01.840
what of how everybody's kind of okay with their role
1325
01:07:01.920 --> 01:07:03.920
so or enough people are so that those who aren't
1326
01:07:03.920 --> 01:07:07.559
it stands out. But I mostly am happy because I
1327
01:07:07.599 --> 01:07:09.639
think don Kallis has done really good work. And for
1328
01:07:09.719 --> 01:07:11.679
years I said they should get the don Kallis business
1329
01:07:11.679 --> 01:07:13.719
and his faction should appear on camera together more often
1330
01:07:13.719 --> 01:07:15.719
in the ring or backstage, and I just talk about
1331
01:07:15.719 --> 01:07:17.840
it every third week and have him do commentary. It
1332
01:07:17.920 --> 01:07:21.239
felt lazy, phoned in and not really well thought out.
1333
01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:26.360
Now you have so many who what manager just always
1334
01:07:27.039 --> 01:07:29.679
trying to think Historically, if there was like just a
1335
01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:32.119
I don't know, it's a little bit of like devastation
1336
01:07:32.199 --> 01:07:34.320
incorporated with scandoract Bar. We're gonna go back to that
1337
01:07:34.360 --> 01:07:36.239
era where it's just like they're just always like this
1338
01:07:36.320 --> 01:07:38.840
collection of just kind of people. But that was more
1339
01:07:38.840 --> 01:07:41.280
freaks and this is more you know athletes who don
1340
01:07:41.320 --> 01:07:44.519
Kallis has these weird homoerotic references too. Look at that man,
1341
01:07:44.599 --> 01:07:49.320
look at those legs. So I'm enjoying it, and I
1342
01:07:49.400 --> 01:07:52.760
obviously it's gonna They're gonna eventually lose some of these
1343
01:07:52.760 --> 01:07:55.800
people who are gonna break away, likely turning babyface or
1344
01:07:55.800 --> 01:07:59.280
just break away otherwise. So anyway, I'm I am enjoying
1345
01:07:59.440 --> 01:08:01.800
Don Kallis being more of a centerpiece, and I'm okay
1346
01:08:01.800 --> 01:08:05.199
with the fact that it's outside the normal, normal realm
1347
01:08:05.320 --> 01:08:07.079
of a faction of three, four, five, six people.
1348
01:08:09.440 --> 01:08:10.519
I'd great disagree.
1349
01:08:10.679 --> 01:08:11.360
That's paradough.
1350
01:08:12.079 --> 01:08:19.159
Fifteen current members, yes, action, And I see what you're saying.
1351
01:08:19.279 --> 01:08:22.720
Let me x are injured, right, I mean, yeah.
1352
01:08:22.439 --> 01:08:27.640
Probably, Let's see how many are injured Alexander is and
1353
01:08:27.760 --> 01:08:31.039
wardlow is and that I think is it.
1354
01:08:31.840 --> 01:08:33.439
I guess they returns lately.
1355
01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:37.920
Yeah, Joel's back, Kevin Kniche is joined. Yeah, it's I
1356
01:08:37.920 --> 01:08:41.560
mean fifteen people. And when Kevin Knight joined the group,
1357
01:08:41.640 --> 01:08:44.520
it wasn't oh no, it was oh really, I mean
1358
01:08:44.560 --> 01:08:47.720
that was kind of the collective reaction Kevin Knight being
1359
01:08:47.760 --> 01:08:50.279
managed by Don Coallis. Now it has nothing to do
1360
01:08:50.359 --> 01:08:52.119
with calls. It's just there's too many people in this
1361
01:08:52.199 --> 01:08:57.880
damn faction and I would much rather see them whittle
1362
01:08:57.920 --> 01:09:00.600
it down and it plays in what you're saying, how
1363
01:09:00.720 --> 01:09:03.039
to find roles for these people? You know, is Archer
1364
01:09:03.119 --> 01:09:05.039
the guy that just is the muscle that stands with
1365
01:09:05.119 --> 01:09:09.359
Callous and occasionally when's the squad man. That's fine, but
1366
01:09:09.840 --> 01:09:11.359
what are the others? Where do the others play?
1367
01:09:11.359 --> 01:09:13.079
Because right now, it'd be fun for Kallous just to
1368
01:09:13.079 --> 01:09:14.720
a long segment where he does that, He's all those
1369
01:09:14.720 --> 01:09:16.920
guys are Lance Archer, he is my plank, and I
1370
01:09:16.960 --> 01:09:18.800
got this guy, he is my plank, like and have
1371
01:09:18.880 --> 01:09:20.439
them all just not It would be ridiculous, but it'd
1372
01:09:20.479 --> 01:09:22.199
be like like and then they cutch a commercial and
1373
01:09:22.239 --> 01:09:26.239
they come back and he finishes there is with all
1374
01:09:26.279 --> 01:09:27.520
the moves, right.
1375
01:09:29.800 --> 01:09:30.000
Yeah.
1376
01:09:30.039 --> 01:09:32.520
I just I think if you trim the fat from this,
1377
01:09:32.680 --> 01:09:35.199
you could have a really compelling group and you would
1378
01:09:35.239 --> 01:09:39.720
be more likely to right for those characters playing off
1379
01:09:39.760 --> 01:09:42.159
of one another, where there's just too many people that.
1380
01:09:42.479 --> 01:09:45.600
I mean, the biggest character shift we've seen for Rocky
1381
01:09:45.680 --> 01:09:48.079
Romero and Trent Burretta is they're now dressing like they're
1382
01:09:48.079 --> 01:09:50.800
on Miami Vice back in the eighties. And I'm not
1383
01:09:50.800 --> 01:09:52.840
saying that as a negative. I think it makes them
1384
01:09:52.880 --> 01:09:56.399
stand out way more than they were before, so it's something,
1385
01:09:56.720 --> 01:09:59.800
but it's not like it's they have real characters. They're
1386
01:09:59.840 --> 01:10:02.840
just two guys in this group, and there's just too
1387
01:10:02.920 --> 01:10:05.760
many of those. There's when I look at it, it feels
1388
01:10:05.800 --> 01:10:10.159
to me Letcher obviously matters, as does Mark Davis was
1389
01:10:10.199 --> 01:10:13.199
the championship he holds right now, one of many, way
1390
01:10:13.199 --> 01:10:19.239
too many championship Ocada matters. And Kevin Knight matters and
1391
01:10:20.359 --> 01:10:23.840
is in there too. The others are just kind of
1392
01:10:23.880 --> 01:10:26.439
the others unfortunately, And there's some really talented people in
1393
01:10:26.479 --> 01:10:28.079
there that I think if you've got them away from
1394
01:10:28.079 --> 01:10:29.760
this group might be better off.
1395
01:10:30.159 --> 01:10:32.119
We can have the don Kells family against the don
1396
01:10:32.199 --> 01:10:35.279
Kellis haters in like a war game of whatever blood
1397
01:10:35.279 --> 01:10:38.840
and guts match or stadium stampede at some point.
1398
01:10:38.800 --> 01:10:41.239
A cage match together, a single ring cage match.
1399
01:10:41.439 --> 01:10:43.760
There you go, Yes, okay, our time's limited. Will move
1400
01:10:43.800 --> 01:10:46.039
on from Donka's family. I do want to ask about
1401
01:10:46.039 --> 01:10:48.000
Mercedes Money and what the heck's going on with her.
1402
01:10:48.439 --> 01:10:53.159
Does she understand like what a wrestling character is supposed
1403
01:10:53.239 --> 01:10:58.039
to be in order to serve getting a distinct and
1404
01:10:58.399 --> 01:11:02.319
an intense crowd reaction pro or con when you're matched
1405
01:11:02.319 --> 01:11:04.640
against either a face or heel the opposite of what
1406
01:11:04.680 --> 01:11:07.479
you are, like I have, it's I mean, it's I
1407
01:11:07.479 --> 01:11:10.079
don't even I don't know what's going on with her Mercedes.
1408
01:11:10.239 --> 01:11:12.520
It's the same thing that's always been there with Mercedes,
1409
01:11:12.560 --> 01:11:15.720
I think, which is that when she is a heel,
1410
01:11:15.960 --> 01:11:18.760
she is natural. When she becomes a babyface, she doesn't
1411
01:11:18.840 --> 01:11:21.359
change a damn thing, and she's still the same heel
1412
01:11:21.359 --> 01:11:23.560
if she was. It's just for some reason you're supposed
1413
01:11:23.600 --> 01:11:24.239
to hear her now.
1414
01:11:24.760 --> 01:11:27.880
Yeah, Like I don't. I mean, I think some people
1415
01:11:27.920 --> 01:11:30.239
who like, oh, I like her because X y Z
1416
01:11:32.159 --> 01:11:33.760
and she's been in the business as long and I
1417
01:11:33.760 --> 01:11:36.439
have these great memories. Like that doesn't mean they understand
1418
01:11:36.479 --> 01:11:39.359
the first thing about this business. Like there are wrestlers
1419
01:11:39.600 --> 01:11:42.720
who it's kind of crazy, but like they do not
1420
01:11:43.439 --> 01:11:46.359
like it hasn't ever crossed their mind to think about
1421
01:11:46.359 --> 01:11:49.880
how like what draws and what maximizes your star power
1422
01:11:49.920 --> 01:11:52.199
and your drawing ability and what it's what you know.
1423
01:11:52.199 --> 01:11:54.439
It's kind of why I've been saying for a while
1424
01:11:54.439 --> 01:11:57.279
here the most important job, not not one hundred percent
1425
01:11:57.319 --> 01:11:59.039
of the role, but the most more important than anything
1426
01:11:59.079 --> 01:12:01.520
else for a heel is when you're facing a babyface
1427
01:12:01.520 --> 01:12:03.399
who's at your level, that the babyface is more over
1428
01:12:03.439 --> 01:12:05.199
at the end of the feud and cheered louder than
1429
01:12:05.199 --> 01:12:07.319
they were before the feud started. Like that's the job
1430
01:12:07.319 --> 01:12:10.760
of a heel. It's not about you, It's about getting
1431
01:12:10.800 --> 01:12:13.279
the baby face over and then the fun The fun
1432
01:12:13.279 --> 01:12:15.359
thing is is if that works, it also gets you over,
1433
01:12:15.720 --> 01:12:18.199
like but it has. You shouldn't be trying to get
1434
01:12:18.199 --> 01:12:19.880
yourself over. You should be trying to get the baby
1435
01:12:19.880 --> 01:12:22.960
face over, which inevitably makes you more over as a heel,
1436
01:12:23.000 --> 01:12:25.199
because that means you've caused them too for the baby
1437
01:12:25.239 --> 01:12:27.479
face more because of who you are. And I think
1438
01:12:27.479 --> 01:12:29.119
there's heels in the business who just think I just
1439
01:12:29.159 --> 01:12:32.079
want this awesome chance, and people cheering me and popping
1440
01:12:32.119 --> 01:12:35.600
for my spots, and it's like, no, your focus should
1441
01:12:35.640 --> 01:12:37.960
be primarily how do I make sure the babyface I'm
1442
01:12:38.000 --> 01:12:40.720
feuding with is more popular at the end. And I
1443
01:12:40.760 --> 01:12:42.600
don't think there's I just think there's so many wrestlers
1444
01:12:42.600 --> 01:12:44.680
who grew up in an era of just communal chants
1445
01:12:44.720 --> 01:12:47.640
and pops for things and social media buzz and did
1446
01:12:47.640 --> 01:12:49.800
I get more hearts and followers and likes? They're not
1447
01:12:49.840 --> 01:12:52.560
thinking about that stuff, because they're not thinking about, oh,
1448
01:12:52.640 --> 01:12:54.439
what was the gate last time we're in Cincinnati? How
1449
01:12:54.520 --> 01:12:57.479
what's my role in trying to improve it. They're not
1450
01:12:57.520 --> 01:12:59.279
thinking that, and they don't have the leadership to push it.
1451
01:12:59.319 --> 01:13:02.680
And to me, Mercedes is sort of, you know, the
1452
01:13:02.680 --> 01:13:07.880
poster person for that and not really ever designating or
1453
01:13:08.239 --> 01:13:11.279
adjusting enough who she is. She just I love the
1454
01:13:11.319 --> 01:13:13.199
business and I just want to entertain you with whatever
1455
01:13:13.239 --> 01:13:15.520
role I play.
1456
01:13:16.119 --> 01:13:19.000
Yeah, there's too much or half for mur for sure.
1457
01:13:19.399 --> 01:13:23.079
I always have wondered, like it is it just WWE
1458
01:13:23.159 --> 01:13:27.119
is bad booking, and we've seen now like not that
1459
01:13:27.199 --> 01:13:29.840
she's played a baby face for long and aw, I
1460
01:13:29.880 --> 01:13:31.840
don't even know if she is, and but it just
1461
01:13:31.960 --> 01:13:33.680
it does kind of lean into that whole thing that
1462
01:13:33.760 --> 01:13:39.640
it's just one straight it's one character along that doesn't change,
1463
01:13:39.840 --> 01:13:42.920
but you're supposed to change and no, no, the character's
1464
01:13:42.960 --> 01:13:45.399
supposed to change. So we have reason to share this person.
1465
01:13:45.920 --> 01:13:51.039
And I hope that that happens with her. I hope something. Yeah,
1466
01:13:51.079 --> 01:13:52.920
some of it we find out it really was bad
1467
01:13:52.920 --> 01:13:55.079
booking by WWE would have came to her, but I
1468
01:13:55.319 --> 01:13:58.399
don't know. So much of it does feel like it's
1469
01:13:59.159 --> 01:14:02.880
just her. It used to be well, I'm the boss,
1470
01:14:03.439 --> 01:14:05.520
so I'm it's gonna be the boss. And I don't
1471
01:14:05.520 --> 01:14:07.279
know if she's in of the mindset that this is
1472
01:14:07.319 --> 01:14:09.600
what got me over. I'm not gonna tweak things, you know,
1473
01:14:09.640 --> 01:14:12.520
like Steve Austin's not gonna suddenly water everything down now
1474
01:14:12.520 --> 01:14:17.039
that he's a baby face. But she should change. We've
1475
01:14:17.079 --> 01:14:20.000
seen enough now it's like, no, it's okay, there's a
1476
01:14:20.000 --> 01:14:20.439
way to do this.
1477
01:14:20.560 --> 01:14:26.479
Bertidy, Yeah, need an extra dose of positivity in your
1478
01:14:26.520 --> 01:14:30.279
wrestling podcasts. Will come join me Alan fourrel Over in
1479
01:14:30.319 --> 01:14:34.119
the Progress Paradise at Peterwood Torch vip as we mask
1480
01:14:34.239 --> 01:14:36.960
on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some
1481
01:14:37.000 --> 01:14:39.680
of the great matches and shows from around the world,
1482
01:14:40.000 --> 01:14:44.399
be it the US, Japan, Europe, or Mexico. There's always
1483
01:14:44.399 --> 01:14:47.000
a place for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and
1484
01:14:47.039 --> 01:14:49.720
we've done fun historical shows such as the We Love
1485
01:14:49.800 --> 01:14:53.840
Liger series celebrating the glorious career of Juice and Thunderlight
1486
01:14:54.319 --> 01:14:56.520
and our Eye was there when shows where our guests
1487
01:14:56.520 --> 01:14:59.000
will join me to talk about a classic bout that
1488
01:14:59.039 --> 01:15:02.439
they were in attendance for. We Love variety and you can.
1489
01:15:02.399 --> 01:15:06.000
Expect lots of it at the Progress Paradise. Detailed pw
1490
01:15:06.279 --> 01:15:09.560
Torch VIP subscription information and a list of all the
1491
01:15:09.680 --> 01:15:14.119
VIP benefits is available at pterwrew torch vip info dot com.
1492
01:15:14.359 --> 01:15:18.479
And yes, all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast
1493
01:15:18.520 --> 01:15:22.039
apps on iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream
1494
01:15:22.079 --> 01:15:25.319
them directly from our ad free VIP mobile site.
1495
01:15:25.560 --> 01:15:26.600
See you in the Paradise.
1496
01:15:30.439 --> 01:15:34.520
All right, the b's latest Summer Slam poster. It's a
1497
01:15:34.560 --> 01:15:37.880
SummerSlam Minnesota. Are we okay with Minnesota and not Minneapolis?
1498
01:15:38.600 --> 01:15:43.199
You know me? Of course? I am Paul and the
1499
01:15:43.279 --> 01:15:45.119
show was really in Minnea. Apples, I'd love that.
1500
01:15:45.079 --> 01:15:49.359
App Yes, they just it's weird, like US Bank Stadium
1501
01:15:49.399 --> 01:15:51.520
is in downtown Minneapolis, and it's like they're scared to
1502
01:15:51.520 --> 01:15:53.399
say Minneapolis. Now. They just keep saying, we're gonna be
1503
01:15:53.439 --> 01:15:55.000
in Minnesota. We're gonna be in Minnesota.
1504
01:15:55.119 --> 01:15:59.079
Is it a weird because of the Floyd protests and
1505
01:15:59.119 --> 01:16:02.000
everything with I They're just like, oh, if we say Minneapolis,
1506
01:16:02.039 --> 01:16:03.960
people might not go Oh.
1507
01:16:03.760 --> 01:16:07.960
God, I do because there is a perception. I mean,
1508
01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:11.560
I like I I Minneapolis is a magnet for me.
1509
01:16:11.600 --> 01:16:15.000
I like I love restaurants there. I love wandering the streets,
1510
01:16:15.039 --> 01:16:18.359
going to the going to just like cool stores that
1511
01:16:18.399 --> 01:16:20.720
are individually owned instead of the mall. I bike through
1512
01:16:21.319 --> 01:16:23.479
like every neighborhood there in the summer. It has the
1513
01:16:23.520 --> 01:16:27.159
best bike trails. It is you Like, I literally cant
1514
01:16:27.159 --> 01:16:29.880
tell it is a utopia right now, Like it is
1515
01:16:30.039 --> 01:16:32.239
one of the most I can't. It's hard for me
1516
01:16:32.319 --> 01:16:35.159
to imagine a better place in the world to spend
1517
01:16:35.159 --> 01:16:39.039
a summer afternoon than almost anywhere in Minneapolis, in like
1518
01:16:39.199 --> 01:16:41.399
any major city, there's a bat there's a couple of
1519
01:16:41.399 --> 01:16:43.720
places where I would not go in the dark. Like
1520
01:16:44.600 --> 01:16:47.000
but I mean it, I'm like, I'm not like a
1521
01:16:47.000 --> 01:16:50.720
booster for tourism here, but like it is almost utopian,
1522
01:16:50.800 --> 01:16:52.479
Like I just want to put up a photocolage of
1523
01:16:52.520 --> 01:16:56.720
like the bike trails and the parks, and the families
1524
01:16:56.720 --> 01:17:00.279
who are out in the in the in the activity
1525
01:17:00.319 --> 01:17:04.600
on sidewalk cafes and coffee shops. Like there's this weird
1526
01:17:04.720 --> 01:17:08.000
caricature that's so like out of touch. But every once
1527
01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:09.439
in a while, you know, like and again it's sort
1528
01:17:09.479 --> 01:17:13.239
of like you know, maga idiots, like the idiot realm
1529
01:17:13.319 --> 01:17:15.119
of maga you could. It's up to you decide what
1530
01:17:15.359 --> 01:17:21.560
percentage that is. We'll say double digits. Choose your double digits.
1531
01:17:21.640 --> 01:17:24.079
But who just buying into the propaganda that's put out there.
1532
01:17:24.119 --> 01:17:25.880
But I think you might be onto something there. But
1533
01:17:25.920 --> 01:17:28.319
I had to I've just enjoyed. I mean, I like
1534
01:17:28.319 --> 01:17:30.680
to say last summer was like my Saint Paul summer
1535
01:17:30.720 --> 01:17:32.560
for going on. But this this summer, I've been more
1536
01:17:32.720 --> 01:17:35.319
in Minneapolis so far, and it's just like, I like, literally,
1537
01:17:35.359 --> 01:17:37.319
I'm just like, oh my god, this is just a
1538
01:17:37.319 --> 01:17:38.000
gorgeous city.
1539
01:17:40.319 --> 01:17:43.159
On to somebody on Twitter just out of the I
1540
01:17:43.159 --> 01:17:45.000
don't know how I'd pop it up in my elgar,
1541
01:17:45.119 --> 01:17:48.680
but it's some guy that basically takes pictures of ice.
1542
01:17:48.760 --> 01:17:51.159
It is. It's getting with Judge photos and hey, this
1543
01:17:51.239 --> 01:17:53.520
is what's going on in Minneapolis, just to show people
1544
01:17:54.000 --> 01:17:56.239
it's not what you think. And I mean, I joke.
1545
01:17:56.520 --> 01:17:58.520
I've always been more of the same Paul guy. Yeah,
1546
01:17:58.640 --> 01:18:02.359
I mean Minneapolis is great. There's nothing wrong with with
1547
01:18:02.479 --> 01:18:05.239
Minneapolis other than, like you said, certain parts of like
1548
01:18:05.319 --> 01:18:07.760
any major city, Saint Paul has them to you. I
1549
01:18:07.760 --> 01:18:08.680
don't want to go there.
1550
01:18:08.520 --> 01:18:12.279
At night, Yeah, but I'll go. I'll go almost anywhere
1551
01:18:12.319 --> 01:18:15.359
during the day. Yeah, and yeah, I mean, like it's
1552
01:18:15.359 --> 01:18:16.920
just it is. But there are people in the suburbs
1553
01:18:16.960 --> 01:18:19.159
who are like they are they've bought into this notion
1554
01:18:19.199 --> 01:18:20.680
of oh, you can't go into Minneapolis. It's like, and
1555
01:18:20.680 --> 01:18:22.359
they live in the Twin Cities, but they're they're you know,
1556
01:18:22.439 --> 01:18:25.159
listen to the propaganda. They're blown out of. Like yeah,
1557
01:18:25.239 --> 01:18:29.640
so anyway, I like, I can't, like I don't even
1558
01:18:29.640 --> 01:18:30.960
want to go on a vacation because I don't want
1559
01:18:30.960 --> 01:18:33.119
to miss a weekend in Minneapolis. That's how like awesome
1560
01:18:33.640 --> 01:18:36.439
the city is right now, and how gorgeous and the
1561
01:18:36.920 --> 01:18:39.800
trails and the parks and the lakes and and every
1562
01:18:39.840 --> 01:18:42.560
individual neighborhood is just yeah, and.
1563
01:18:44.159 --> 01:18:44.680
I got nothing.
1564
01:18:47.079 --> 01:18:48.479
I know, we have limited time, Jason, because you got
1565
01:18:48.479 --> 01:18:51.760
an appointment. But I like last summer I explored Saint Paul,
1566
01:18:51.880 --> 01:18:54.840
like bike rides and in neighborhoods and and learn more
1567
01:18:54.840 --> 01:18:56.399
about the city because I had spent more time in
1568
01:18:56.439 --> 01:19:00.000
Minneapolis growing up, and like the they have vastly improved
1569
01:19:00.039 --> 01:19:03.239
the bike trails. Como Park is awesome. I got to
1570
01:19:03.279 --> 01:19:07.720
know Lake Falen and uh uh, Dayton's Bluff and there's
1571
01:19:07.760 --> 01:19:11.039
like a cool park overlook there. They've improved the bike
1572
01:19:11.119 --> 01:19:13.399
route now where you can connect to the Minnesota. They're
1573
01:19:13.439 --> 01:19:18.960
the Mississippi River with improved bike trails the so anyway,
1574
01:19:19.000 --> 01:19:20.920
I could go on and on, but like that is
1575
01:19:20.960 --> 01:19:23.880
a It's not just Minneapolis that has the you know,
1576
01:19:24.560 --> 01:19:26.279
the one of the top two bike trails in the
1577
01:19:26.279 --> 01:19:29.600
country along with Portland, Oregon. This is the tie for
1578
01:19:29.640 --> 01:19:33.239
the best biking city in every pole And Saint Paul
1579
01:19:33.319 --> 01:19:36.239
has stepped up their game and there's a lot of
1580
01:19:36.279 --> 01:19:38.600
great places to hang out there too. So but this
1581
01:19:38.640 --> 01:19:40.920
is my Mineapoli summer. They've done They've added trails and
1582
01:19:40.920 --> 01:19:42.760
done improvements and stuff along the new light rail that
1583
01:19:42.800 --> 01:19:44.560
I just explored last weekend. That's really fun.
1584
01:19:44.600 --> 01:19:46.880
So is wrong we don't even have the X. I
1585
01:19:46.880 --> 01:19:48.279
mean it's it's now what grand.
1586
01:19:48.640 --> 01:19:55.920
Yeah that's true. Yeah, yeah, oh yeah yeah. Summit Avenue
1587
01:19:56.119 --> 01:20:00.680
and and the great small colleges in the Saint Paul campus.
1588
01:20:00.720 --> 01:20:04.079
The University Minnesota is gorgeous. It's got kind of the
1589
01:20:04.079 --> 01:20:06.439
State Fair. I mean it's adjacent. Yeah, a little bit
1590
01:20:06.439 --> 01:20:10.520
more Saint Paul in Minneapolis. A long smelling so all right, sorry, everybody,
1591
01:20:10.640 --> 01:20:11.880
I love, I.
1592
01:20:11.800 --> 01:20:14.399
Love say can say it's SummerSlam, It's coming here.
1593
01:20:14.439 --> 01:20:18.039
It's all relevant summers on Minnesota, not many, let's don't
1594
01:20:18.039 --> 01:20:22.199
be scared. On the poster, Cody is front and center
1595
01:20:22.479 --> 01:20:24.800
in front of Roman, which is kind of interesting, you know,
1596
01:20:24.960 --> 01:20:28.439
just he's got them supposedly the main title. But I
1597
01:20:28.640 --> 01:20:30.960
always like kind of looking at okay, there's they don't
1598
01:20:30.960 --> 01:20:33.199
put some some intern in charge of who gets to
1599
01:20:33.199 --> 01:20:34.960
be front and center on the posters, Like this is
1600
01:20:35.000 --> 01:20:39.079
a deliberate choice from Paula Vac and other people in power.
1601
01:20:39.600 --> 01:20:42.640
They're both the top people. But Cody is in front
1602
01:20:42.680 --> 01:20:47.039
of Roman, so that's kind of interesting. Then Penta's in
1603
01:20:47.039 --> 01:20:49.600
the upper left, Oba Fami in the upper right. See
1604
01:20:49.600 --> 01:20:52.479
them Punk and Trick Williams in the middle.
1605
01:20:53.840 --> 01:20:55.800
So champunk was gone forever.
1606
01:20:56.680 --> 01:20:59.359
Yeah, so, but that's the noteworthy thing you got. First
1607
01:20:59.399 --> 01:21:01.520
of all, they believe in Trick enough, he's one of
1608
01:21:01.560 --> 01:21:04.239
the chosen ones to be on the poster. But see
1609
01:21:04.279 --> 01:21:07.119
I'm punk. You know, when does he show up? That's
1610
01:21:07.159 --> 01:21:09.399
kind of where I'm going, Like, what what what is
1611
01:21:09.520 --> 01:21:12.199
his match? If we start, if we think they're going
1612
01:21:12.239 --> 01:21:18.720
to do Oba Brock, do we get Punk against Roman again,
1613
01:21:18.880 --> 01:21:23.920
or do we get Jay against Roman as you speculated
1614
01:21:24.039 --> 01:21:27.119
to set up or Oba against Roman, and then Punk
1615
01:21:27.159 --> 01:21:29.359
comes and challenges Cody because certainly they like, you know,
1616
01:21:29.479 --> 01:21:33.039
some of the less the most distinct images of less
1617
01:21:33.039 --> 01:21:34.920
we had with Punk or crossing pass with Cody. So
1618
01:21:35.199 --> 01:21:38.800
can they just fast track that, especially if Oba wins
1619
01:21:38.840 --> 01:21:40.279
King of the Ring and chooses to face Roman and
1620
01:21:40.319 --> 01:21:42.960
they go with that sooner, But then what do you
1621
01:21:43.000 --> 01:21:44.680
do with Brock and then you get into the two
1622
01:21:44.800 --> 01:21:47.199
night thing. I think there's a lot up in the
1623
01:21:47.239 --> 01:21:49.920
air that wants the lineup lands and is announced. It'll
1624
01:21:49.920 --> 01:21:52.560
seem sort of obvious in retrospect, but I don't think
1625
01:21:52.560 --> 01:21:54.039
it is at this stage.
1626
01:21:54.479 --> 01:21:56.159
Sure, yeah, I think that's fair. And by the way,
1627
01:21:56.159 --> 01:21:58.880
I would have Oba a lot closer to the front end,
1628
01:21:58.960 --> 01:22:00.720
and then they do, I wouldn't him over the family
1629
01:22:00.720 --> 01:22:03.039
stuck in the back corner. Uh.
1630
01:22:03.079 --> 01:22:04.880
That said, the upper right corner is a good place
1631
01:22:04.920 --> 01:22:08.239
to be because I the I does start there, like
1632
01:22:09.079 --> 01:22:11.079
on posters that I starts in the upper right corner
1633
01:22:11.079 --> 01:22:13.560
and then goes clockwise down. So even though Cody and
1634
01:22:13.640 --> 01:22:15.920
Roman are in the front, and I think some people
1635
01:22:15.920 --> 01:22:18.960
would see that first Opus and like almost tied for
1636
01:22:19.000 --> 01:22:22.159
the best spot and they did increase his size compared
1637
01:22:22.199 --> 01:22:24.359
to like Becky, but he's not any bigger than Punk
1638
01:22:24.359 --> 01:22:25.640
and Seth. No, we're really getting out there.
1639
01:22:25.560 --> 01:22:32.199
Anyway, son boy. Maybe it's fun too because he's got
1640
01:22:32.199 --> 01:22:34.800
to get through Roman's Guy or something like that. If
1641
01:22:34.800 --> 01:22:37.079
they don't really, if they're not going to put him
1642
01:22:37.079 --> 01:22:42.159
in a title match, I'm I am guessing the Cody
1643
01:22:42.239 --> 01:22:45.520
match if if it's not Jay Uso or anything like that,
1644
01:22:45.560 --> 01:22:49.159
it's gonna end up being Cody Doom there and Sammy
1645
01:22:49.199 --> 01:22:53.159
in the triple threat, and so that would we mean
1646
01:22:53.279 --> 01:22:55.600
Roman is going to face the King of the Ring winner,
1647
01:22:56.079 --> 01:23:00.000
so he's out of that picture. And then Punk. Yeah,
1648
01:23:00.079 --> 01:23:03.640
I thought two would make some sense. When they are
1649
01:23:03.640 --> 01:23:06.720
going to Rollinson Breaker sooner than I would have thought.
1650
01:23:06.760 --> 01:23:09.439
Are they going to free up Breaker for I guess
1651
01:23:09.439 --> 01:23:12.800
either Guy for for Punk is a possibility to I mean,
1652
01:23:12.880 --> 01:23:14.920
they're just matches that jump out. I mean, obviously they
1653
01:23:14.960 --> 01:23:18.439
don't have anything that they've set up yet on television.
1654
01:23:19.319 --> 01:23:23.000
My I like Sammy Cody one on Sammy's A and
1655
01:23:23.039 --> 01:23:25.800
Cody one on one at Summer Slim if they do
1656
01:23:26.359 --> 01:23:28.119
rains and Oba, but then you know, what do you
1657
01:23:28.119 --> 01:23:28.600
do with Brock.
1658
01:23:29.840 --> 01:23:36.119
Does it sell? Yeah, I mean I definitely prefer the
1659
01:23:36.119 --> 01:23:38.039
singles match too, but I just wonder if the triple
1660
01:23:38.119 --> 01:23:41.399
thread is more marketable for them.
1661
01:23:41.720 --> 01:23:44.720
No, I think I'm the question is pertinent. But I
1662
01:23:44.760 --> 01:23:47.359
also are they going to get to that sooner anyway?
1663
01:23:47.920 --> 01:23:48.720
Maybe? Yeah?
1664
01:23:48.960 --> 01:23:49.600
Yeah that's so.
1665
01:23:50.399 --> 01:23:52.039
But yeah, I mean, for all I know, they're going
1666
01:23:52.079 --> 01:23:55.199
to do that at on a week from Saturday. I
1667
01:23:55.439 --> 01:23:57.760
could see that totally with that title match being on
1668
01:23:57.800 --> 01:23:58.520
TV this week.
1669
01:23:58.680 --> 01:24:00.359
That's the thing, like, why are they Why are they
1670
01:24:00.399 --> 01:24:02.800
putting that on TV if they're not just gonna turn
1671
01:24:02.880 --> 01:24:05.000
that into a triple threat, which then leads to Sammy
1672
01:24:05.000 --> 01:24:07.640
one on one with Cody at SummerSlam. That seems to
1673
01:24:07.640 --> 01:24:10.000
be the more logical order rather than Cody Sammy one
1674
01:24:10.039 --> 01:24:13.279
on one, But then somehow Gnther wedges his way in
1675
01:24:13.760 --> 01:24:15.399
or Samy Getz. Yeah. I just I don't know how
1676
01:24:15.399 --> 01:24:16.039
they tell us.
1677
01:24:16.039 --> 01:24:20.760
Reach up gunthrough for Punk. Yeah, because there's been reports
1678
01:24:20.840 --> 01:24:23.079
he's gonna be a SmackDown guy when he returns, so
1679
01:24:23.720 --> 01:24:26.600
yeah that I could see that. Yeah, I mean I
1680
01:24:26.720 --> 01:24:29.560
really want as much as I would like to see
1681
01:24:29.600 --> 01:24:34.119
Punk and Cody in person, boy, I think I would
1682
01:24:34.159 --> 01:24:35.199
save that one for Mania.
1683
01:24:37.359 --> 01:24:43.119
Yeah yeah, so yeah, So I mean, I get not
1684
01:24:43.199 --> 01:24:47.279
putting Gnther or Sammy on the poster, but Trick is
1685
01:24:47.279 --> 01:24:49.560
on the poster. Shouldn't Sammy or couldn't there be on
1686
01:24:49.600 --> 01:24:52.800
the poster? If just from a pure storyline standpoint, I
1687
01:24:52.800 --> 01:24:57.159
don't know if Trick has earned placement at the expense
1688
01:24:57.199 --> 01:25:00.359
of some others. And by the way, from the women's standpoint,
1689
01:25:00.479 --> 01:25:04.399
it's live Morgan, Rhea, Ripley and Becky Lynch is that
1690
01:25:04.479 --> 01:25:11.439
they're write three because that's excluding Charlotte Jade, And again
1691
01:25:11.800 --> 01:25:13.279
I want to cave it. I don't read. I don't
1692
01:25:13.279 --> 01:25:14.720
want to read too much into the poster. But I
1693
01:25:14.800 --> 01:25:17.640
also think it's kind of naive to say this is
1694
01:25:17.680 --> 01:25:20.840
sort of a random draw and some intern just chose
1695
01:25:20.880 --> 01:25:24.039
their personal favorite, Like this is a big front in
1696
01:25:24.199 --> 01:25:28.039
center sales pitch poster to try to sell tickets. No accidents,
1697
01:25:28.079 --> 01:25:30.840
There are no accidents, So they decided they want a
1698
01:25:30.880 --> 01:25:32.640
Trick here because they thought he'd helped sell tickets. But
1699
01:25:32.680 --> 01:25:35.800
they didn't think Gnther or Charlotte or Jade or Sammy
1700
01:25:35.800 --> 01:25:37.560
would to grab four names.
1701
01:25:38.039 --> 01:25:40.399
I think it's smart too well. I mean that the
1702
01:25:40.439 --> 01:25:46.199
women you have the two champions and then the Becky spot.
1703
01:25:46.239 --> 01:25:48.079
I think you could make an argument that it should
1704
01:25:48.159 --> 01:25:51.720
could be Charlotte or Jade, depending on especially what they
1705
01:25:51.760 --> 01:25:54.600
have in mind for them at the Yes Show. On
1706
01:25:54.640 --> 01:25:57.119
the men's side, I think it's important to have trick
1707
01:25:57.439 --> 01:26:00.840
Oba not just do you look at the poster here,
1708
01:26:00.880 --> 01:26:03.479
it's all the same people that were here five years
1709
01:26:03.479 --> 01:26:06.640
ago with or maybe not that long, but Cody and
1710
01:26:06.760 --> 01:26:08.880
Roman and Sammy and Gunning there, and then it's just
1711
01:26:09.159 --> 01:26:11.680
there any fresh faces in this company. It is good
1712
01:26:11.680 --> 01:26:13.479
to just spot like them in that way. I could
1713
01:26:13.479 --> 01:26:15.399
do without Sath, but I don't know if they want
1714
01:26:15.399 --> 01:26:17.359
to rattle that I know.
1715
01:26:18.319 --> 01:26:20.479
And I mean if you say, well, tricks Us Champ
1716
01:26:20.479 --> 01:26:22.840
Pens his Icy Champ, that's why they're on there, Well,
1717
01:26:22.880 --> 01:26:25.319
then why isn't sil Rukan there. Why isn't Tiffany Stratton
1718
01:26:25.319 --> 01:26:27.520
on there? Why isn't why you know, like.
1719
01:26:27.680 --> 01:26:29.520
They have too many damn title belts, just like every
1720
01:26:29.520 --> 01:26:30.319
company I know.
1721
01:26:30.479 --> 01:26:33.159
Yeah, So my point is that they have been selective
1722
01:26:33.159 --> 01:26:35.600
about what's champions, and they have been selective about which
1723
01:26:35.600 --> 01:26:38.439
non champions are on there. It's not just oh, Wade,
1724
01:26:38.439 --> 01:26:40.199
you're overthinking it. All they did is say, who are
1725
01:26:40.199 --> 01:26:42.680
the champions rowing a poster? They they did make some
1726
01:26:42.880 --> 01:26:48.560
exclusions and inclusions that are outside of that. Yeah, absolute, Yeah, Okay, Uh,
1727
01:26:48.640 --> 01:26:54.319
let's let's jump to uh an email here, Kylon. Haven't
1728
01:26:54.319 --> 01:26:55.640
heard from him on the flay Ship in a while.
1729
01:26:55.760 --> 01:26:57.840
You're welcome, Kylin. Why did he send them to me?
1730
01:26:57.840 --> 01:27:01.159
And say, no, I don't that's Hed Keller podcast at
1731
01:27:01.159 --> 01:27:04.600
gmail dot com. He sent, Yeah, he sent it to you,
1732
01:27:04.640 --> 01:27:06.720
but for the flag Ship worked out.
1733
01:27:06.760 --> 01:27:08.239
So you're welcome and thank you.
1734
01:27:10.479 --> 01:27:12.600
What does Paula Beck need to do to make SmackDown
1735
01:27:12.640 --> 01:27:16.039
can't miss as it returns to two hours starting on
1736
01:27:16.119 --> 01:27:19.279
June twenty sixth Amen, I knew you were going to
1737
01:27:19.319 --> 01:27:25.520
say that. Yes, you mentioned maybe seam pumpk Go's to SmackDown. Yeah.
1738
01:27:26.199 --> 01:27:29.479
What how do you feel about the state of Roberts's SmackDown,
1739
01:27:29.479 --> 01:27:31.920
both in terms of talent, in terms of perceived importance,
1740
01:27:31.920 --> 01:27:33.600
and also the tone of the show.
1741
01:27:34.399 --> 01:27:34.520
Uh.
1742
01:27:34.600 --> 01:27:36.520
Do you think that they're aiming for different things or
1743
01:27:36.560 --> 01:27:37.640
is it more happenstance?
1744
01:27:38.720 --> 01:27:40.800
Oh? Well, I haven't really thought about that last part.
1745
01:27:40.960 --> 01:27:44.560
I I mean, I look forward obviously to it being
1746
01:27:44.600 --> 01:27:46.000
a two hour show, and then I think it's gonna
1747
01:27:46.000 --> 01:27:51.039
be easier to compare. SmackDown does feel I guess bloated
1748
01:27:51.079 --> 01:27:54.159
to use that word again at three hours most shows,
1749
01:27:54.640 --> 01:27:58.359
well every show does at three hours, But I do
1750
01:27:58.479 --> 01:28:01.439
think there's enough going on that they're not going to
1751
01:28:01.479 --> 01:28:04.600
have any trouble filling two hours. I think their own
1752
01:28:05.000 --> 01:28:10.079
branding and Roman reigns have made Raw feel bigger, with
1753
01:28:10.239 --> 01:28:13.000
Roman running his mouth about how that title matters and
1754
01:28:13.600 --> 01:28:16.239
basically making it seem like SmackDown is nothing because it
1755
01:28:16.439 --> 01:28:21.359
rad's on Netflix. So that hasn't helped the SmackDown cause.
1756
01:28:21.439 --> 01:28:24.920
But you still have Cody over there. Trick is very hot,
1757
01:28:25.079 --> 01:28:27.720
and if you do get punk and then I think
1758
01:28:27.840 --> 01:28:31.600
Jade has really come along. I think all the mocking
1759
01:28:32.079 --> 01:28:35.359
of people going, oh so it wasn't aw okay, look
1760
01:28:35.359 --> 01:28:38.079
at how awful she is with WWE tritic, I suddenly
1761
01:28:38.119 --> 01:28:40.199
don't hear much from them, and I never I mean,
1762
01:28:40.279 --> 01:28:42.840
I just think it's a natural progression of her. Think
1763
01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:45.720
aw could have done better by her. But I don't
1764
01:28:45.720 --> 01:28:48.960
think they did terrible either. It just it took her
1765
01:28:48.960 --> 01:28:51.800
some time, and she's getting all of that together. Now.
1766
01:28:52.439 --> 01:28:54.399
You do have Charlotte, who they're starting to heat up
1767
01:28:54.439 --> 01:28:59.159
again and yeah, so and which Rhea is on that
1768
01:28:59.199 --> 01:29:03.279
Brenda's right, So yeah, I think there's enough going on.
1769
01:29:03.560 --> 01:29:06.119
I think they have the roster split pretty well. I'm
1770
01:29:06.119 --> 01:29:08.439
not saying they couldn't shake things up a little bit
1771
01:29:08.680 --> 01:29:13.840
by moving some people around, but yeah, I think that SmackDown.
1772
01:29:15.720 --> 01:29:19.439
I think it'll naturally feel more important at two hours
1773
01:29:19.479 --> 01:29:21.640
because you're going to trim some of the fat and
1774
01:29:22.880 --> 01:29:25.640
that will Ideah. I just think it's going to make
1775
01:29:25.680 --> 01:29:27.399
the show feel more and must see if they do
1776
01:29:27.439 --> 01:29:30.039
it right and they don't just go, well that now
1777
01:29:30.039 --> 01:29:32.079
it's two hours, we just don't have to have the
1778
01:29:32.199 --> 01:29:33.920
champion on as much or something like that.
1779
01:29:35.079 --> 01:29:38.199
Is there a false assumption in Kylon's question that they
1780
01:29:38.319 --> 01:29:41.880
care about making SmackDown can't Miss. They have years guaranteed money.
1781
01:29:42.600 --> 01:29:45.680
They just feel like, we just have a machine and
1782
01:29:45.800 --> 01:29:47.960
we plug things into it and things will be fine.
1783
01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:50.119
Like I don't even know that it's crossed their mind
1784
01:29:50.159 --> 01:29:51.880
of ooh, we're going from three to two hours, we
1785
01:29:51.880 --> 01:29:53.600
need to change what we're doing. I just think it's
1786
01:29:53.640 --> 01:29:55.399
another day at work and they just have a little
1787
01:29:55.479 --> 01:29:59.039
less filler and they're going to arrange wrestlers on each
1788
01:29:59.079 --> 01:30:00.880
brand depending on how they want to do things after
1789
01:30:00.920 --> 01:30:03.600
Summer Slam or going into Summer Slam. H in terms
1790
01:30:03.600 --> 01:30:05.880
of you know, feuds with top stars, and we know
1791
01:30:06.239 --> 01:30:08.800
they just sort of semi arbitrarily move people around with
1792
01:30:08.800 --> 01:30:10.640
a little lip service to how and why.
1793
01:30:11.039 --> 01:30:13.960
Do you think there's ever going to be an announcement of, oh,
1794
01:30:14.039 --> 01:30:16.680
this was the person that they traded for finn ballor.
1795
01:30:16.680 --> 01:30:19.520
I would be surprised if there's anybody in dobby even
1796
01:30:19.560 --> 01:30:21.439
thinking that that's something that they ought to do.
1797
01:30:22.199 --> 01:30:25.680
It's sad little things I really wanted to see cleaned
1798
01:30:25.760 --> 01:30:29.399
up when Vince left. Little thing. It's just I know
1799
01:30:29.560 --> 01:30:31.439
Levek's not a big sports guy, but I think he
1800
01:30:31.479 --> 01:30:34.560
sees enough of them to know. And there's just so
1801
01:30:34.600 --> 01:30:36.840
many little things like there was like damn you guys
1802
01:30:36.880 --> 01:30:40.680
really and and the uh just all like the brand
1803
01:30:40.680 --> 01:30:44.319
split doesn't matter. It's just like we're just garbagrary whoever
1804
01:30:44.359 --> 01:30:46.920
shows up from week to week. Sometimes we explain it,
1805
01:30:47.000 --> 01:30:49.359
sometimes we don't. It's it's disappointing.
1806
01:30:50.159 --> 01:30:54.800
Yeah. Yeah. iPhone users, if you're listening to us on
1807
01:30:54.840 --> 01:30:58.039
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1808
01:30:58.119 --> 01:31:01.680
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1809
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1810
01:31:05.119 --> 01:31:07.680
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1811
01:31:07.720 --> 01:31:10.239
There's some free samples of VIP shows and you can
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01:31:10.359 --> 01:31:14.159
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01:31:14.239 --> 01:31:17.359
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01:31:17.399 --> 01:31:20.079
Torch in Apple Podcasts and clicking on the pw Torch
1815
01:31:20.199 --> 01:31:22.680
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1816
01:31:22.760 --> 01:31:25.239
and after that you can become a VIP member using
1817
01:31:25.239 --> 01:31:28.439
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01:31:28.479 --> 01:31:32.079
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1819
01:31:32.119 --> 01:31:34.399
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1820
01:31:34.439 --> 01:31:37.520
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1821
01:31:37.560 --> 01:31:39.920
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1822
01:31:40.079 --> 01:31:43.840
VIP exclusives. Just search pw Torch in your Apple podcast app.
1823
01:31:45.600 --> 01:31:51.760
All right, moving on to next question from Kylin, is
1824
01:31:51.760 --> 01:31:55.239
will Osprey guaranteed to become AW champion at all?
1825
01:31:55.279 --> 01:31:58.960
In as close as you can get you a guarantee,
1826
01:31:58.960 --> 01:32:02.000
I would say, I mean barring injury or something, or
1827
01:32:02.520 --> 01:32:05.439
some arrest on horrible charges or you know, god knows
1828
01:32:05.479 --> 01:32:08.199
what I would say, Yeah, if all is as it
1829
01:32:08.239 --> 01:32:11.800
is today, I would think. I just don't think they're
1830
01:32:11.840 --> 01:32:15.039
gonna pull the rug out from under people at Wembley
1831
01:32:15.520 --> 01:32:18.039
and hold off until the next time they go there.
1832
01:32:18.039 --> 01:32:21.000
I think this is it. I do too. Which of
1833
01:32:21.079 --> 01:32:23.239
these three? This is final question, Conlin, which these three
1834
01:32:23.239 --> 01:32:25.039
candidates would you rather have his Dota by book Er
1835
01:32:25.079 --> 01:32:27.680
some day? Cody Rhodes, the Umpunk or Seth Rollins. I'm
1836
01:32:27.720 --> 01:32:30.199
a proud VIP and dot net member, well not Seth.
1837
01:32:30.199 --> 01:32:34.479
I don't think Seth has a particularly high wrestling IQ.
1838
01:32:34.760 --> 01:32:36.880
I mean, like in the way that I use that term.
1839
01:32:36.880 --> 01:32:37.119
I don't.
1840
01:32:37.119 --> 01:32:38.840
I don't think he's like a as much of a
1841
01:32:38.840 --> 01:32:40.800
student of the game just because he's headlined a bunch
1842
01:32:40.800 --> 01:32:42.600
of matches. I don't. It doesn't come through in his promos,
1843
01:32:42.680 --> 01:32:46.439
or his character work, or even some of the early
1844
01:32:46.479 --> 01:32:48.960
stories I heard about him. So I don't even know
1845
01:32:48.960 --> 01:32:51.640
why his name would come up. I mean, what if
1846
01:32:51.680 --> 01:32:53.479
you name three people who should book I can think
1847
01:32:53.520 --> 01:32:57.079
of twenty people i'd think of first. I'd say Jamie
1848
01:32:57.079 --> 01:32:59.760
Noble before Seth Rowlins. Like, I mean, yeah, like, what
1849
01:33:00.000 --> 01:33:02.279
why would you say Seth Kylin, I don't even understand that.
1850
01:33:03.079 --> 01:33:06.039
Yeah, I'm that is kind of surprising, how you say that.
1851
01:33:07.000 --> 01:33:08.680
Just because he's headlined a lot of matches and talks
1852
01:33:08.680 --> 01:33:12.840
about himself with a bunch of superlatives doesn't mean he's
1853
01:33:12.880 --> 01:33:15.359
equipped to book. And I think there's a ton of
1854
01:33:15.359 --> 01:33:19.039
evidence that he's good at dives and having good matches
1855
01:33:19.039 --> 01:33:21.760
and a flame war with will Osprey. But beyond that, like,
1856
01:33:21.880 --> 01:33:25.800
what would make you think he's smart enough to maybe
1857
01:33:25.840 --> 01:33:27.920
maybe there's some And I asked that sort of like
1858
01:33:27.960 --> 01:33:33.479
it's a rhetorical question, smearing smearing the premise, but I
1859
01:33:33.720 --> 01:33:36.079
generally want to know have I missed something because I
1860
01:33:36.079 --> 01:33:38.920
haven't heard anyone talk about Seth as somebody I mentioned
1861
01:33:38.920 --> 01:33:42.079
this on the Raw Poschal last night, Like Seth's not
1862
01:33:42.119 --> 01:33:43.880
a guy any young wrest is going to go to
1863
01:33:43.920 --> 01:33:45.560
Who's smart and be like, Hey, let me go to
1864
01:33:45.600 --> 01:33:47.960
Seth for help with my promos. I mean, Seth is
1865
01:33:48.000 --> 01:33:51.000
just a walking cliche machine who thinks getting cheers while
1866
01:33:51.039 --> 01:33:53.159
you're heel is an attribute that he's over. I mean,
1867
01:33:53.199 --> 01:33:55.279
I just think he's sort of disqualified himself in that way.
1868
01:33:56.479 --> 01:34:01.000
He Cody talked about the future of the company, and
1869
01:34:01.039 --> 01:34:03.640
I don't remember if he included Seth as one of
1870
01:34:03.680 --> 01:34:08.039
the potential bookers or not. I know Punk was one
1871
01:34:09.479 --> 01:34:12.159
beyond that. Yeah, I tried to do a quick search,
1872
01:34:12.239 --> 01:34:15.319
and unfortunately nothing's relevant.
1873
01:34:15.960 --> 01:34:19.239
If if Seth Rowlins becomes a really good wrestling mind booker,
1874
01:34:19.319 --> 01:34:21.640
someday I'll be like, why did you not apply that
1875
01:34:22.039 --> 01:34:24.640
to your heel and babyface characters instead of just gone
1876
01:34:24.640 --> 01:34:27.399
a Melton John And I'm a revolutionary even though I've
1877
01:34:27.399 --> 01:34:29.279
never thought what that means in the context of my character.
1878
01:34:30.520 --> 01:34:32.800
I would think that if Seth had interest in booking,
1879
01:34:33.199 --> 01:34:36.279
he would be doing more than just the training school,
1880
01:34:36.600 --> 01:34:39.920
that that would kind of become like his indie promotion
1881
01:34:40.039 --> 01:34:42.199
where he was able to you know, book some things
1882
01:34:42.239 --> 01:34:45.000
even though he's not there all the time. And that's
1883
01:34:45.039 --> 01:34:46.880
just it just hasn't happened.
1884
01:34:47.439 --> 01:34:49.800
Yeah, And I got nothing personally against Seth. I just like,
1885
01:34:50.079 --> 01:34:52.479
I mean, if he's got he's a great wrestling mind,
1886
01:34:52.479 --> 01:34:55.279
but and as a passion for it and has an
1887
01:34:55.279 --> 01:34:57.039
attitude for it, and he just had a blind spot
1888
01:34:57.079 --> 01:34:58.960
for how to be an effective babyface or heel and
1889
01:34:59.319 --> 01:35:00.600
not just you know, like I go back to the
1890
01:35:00.640 --> 01:35:03.600
Steve Austin shows I did with him. When Steve just said,
1891
01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:07.600
you know what is Seth Rollins? You know what? What? What?
1892
01:35:07.680 --> 01:35:09.600
Who is he? What is he? Like it? It didn't
1893
01:35:09.600 --> 01:35:11.680
seem like it crossed Seth's mind actually come up with
1894
01:35:11.720 --> 01:35:16.760
something that defined Seth Fan Rawlins. Even Steve Austin was like,
1895
01:35:17.439 --> 01:35:19.520
what is Seth f freaking Rawlins?
1896
01:35:20.199 --> 01:35:20.359
Right?
1897
01:35:21.079 --> 01:35:23.199
You know? And and it just you're a top guy
1898
01:35:23.239 --> 01:35:26.800
that should be better to find. Okay. I wrote about
1899
01:35:26.840 --> 01:35:29.199
it when Cody left a W in a cover story
1900
01:35:29.199 --> 01:35:31.319
and Cody even called me out at a mediate Q
1901
01:35:31.439 --> 01:35:34.600
and after a pay per view going Wade Keller didn't
1902
01:35:34.600 --> 01:35:37.640
get right while I left AW, He's still missing the
1903
01:35:37.720 --> 01:35:40.479
key ingredients. It's like, okay, you know fine, but I
1904
01:35:41.319 --> 01:35:45.520
had a well sourced cover story on you know that
1905
01:35:45.520 --> 01:35:48.960
that some people thought one of the reasons Cody ended
1906
01:35:49.039 --> 01:35:51.359
up leaving is it became clear this was gonna be
1907
01:35:51.359 --> 01:35:55.199
Tony Kahn's vision. You know that that Cody wasn't going
1908
01:35:55.239 --> 01:35:57.119
to be able to follow in his dad's footsteps in
1909
01:35:57.199 --> 01:36:00.600
terms of being a valued control it or to the
1910
01:36:00.640 --> 01:36:03.359
creative framing of what AW as a brand would be.
1911
01:36:03.359 --> 01:36:05.359
And you could see Cody fighting sometimes we shouldn't have
1912
01:36:05.720 --> 01:36:09.000
anything on dynamite where you need shoulder content to understand it.
1913
01:36:09.000 --> 01:36:10.800
You know, there there are things Cody and I was
1914
01:36:10.840 --> 01:36:14.319
on Cody's side on a lot of this stuff. So
1915
01:36:14.840 --> 01:36:17.800
I do think Cody would be the type. Now I
1916
01:36:17.800 --> 01:36:22.319
don't know if it's chasing his dad's legacy to do
1917
01:36:22.359 --> 01:36:24.279
it or if he'd actually be good at it. There's
1918
01:36:24.279 --> 01:36:26.199
a lot of things that I agree with on I
1919
01:36:26.239 --> 01:36:28.960
agree with on Cody philosophically where I think he might
1920
01:36:29.000 --> 01:36:30.520
be really good, But I don't. You know, it takes
1921
01:36:30.560 --> 01:36:33.760
more than just having a broad notion that of some
1922
01:36:33.880 --> 01:36:36.640
timeless traits that have been lost over time to be
1923
01:36:36.680 --> 01:36:40.520
a really good booker. But I would I would put
1924
01:36:40.560 --> 01:36:42.600
him high on my list based on what we know.
1925
01:36:43.079 --> 01:36:45.239
But then see, I'm punk you can talk about him.
1926
01:36:45.199 --> 01:36:51.600
I think we'll see. With Hunk, I don't know how
1927
01:36:51.640 --> 01:36:56.079
deep his booking philosophy goes, but he's He's really smart
1928
01:36:57.199 --> 01:36:59.720
and a student of the game, certainly more so than Seth.
1929
01:36:59.800 --> 01:37:02.720
So I mean, he's in the ballpark. But I don't
1930
01:37:02.760 --> 01:37:06.039
think focusing on big name stars who headline WrestleMania is
1931
01:37:06.119 --> 01:37:07.800
necessarily what you need to do. Some of the great
1932
01:37:07.800 --> 01:37:11.319
bookers in the territory days, we're not the headline wrestlers.
1933
01:37:11.319 --> 01:37:15.520
There could be a sleeper. I mean, maybe Otis is
1934
01:37:15.520 --> 01:37:16.880
going to be the next great booker. Just because he
1935
01:37:16.920 --> 01:37:18.760
isn't a great singles wrestler who you admire and buy
1936
01:37:18.760 --> 01:37:20.920
T shirts for and have great match to your candidate.
1937
01:37:20.920 --> 01:37:23.039
It doesn't mean he can't be a great booking mind.
1938
01:37:23.319 --> 01:37:25.800
You know what I'm saying. It's like the next big
1939
01:37:25.800 --> 01:37:28.119
booker may not be somebody who is on the radar,
1940
01:37:28.199 --> 01:37:28.840
is a big star.
1941
01:37:29.760 --> 01:37:34.479
Yeah, no, for sure, that's it's I think it's just
1942
01:37:34.520 --> 01:37:39.760
because they have more of a relationship typically because they're
1943
01:37:40.039 --> 01:37:42.239
you know, because they're bigger stars, are spending more time
1944
01:37:42.319 --> 01:37:44.920
with the owners or what have you. I don't know
1945
01:37:44.920 --> 01:37:46.720
that that's going to matter in the future with with
1946
01:37:47.119 --> 01:37:49.520
WWE and TKO. I just don't know how much time
1947
01:37:49.560 --> 01:37:53.319
TKO spends with any of the wrestlers, so and who
1948
01:37:53.319 --> 01:37:54.960
knows if they're going to own the company long term.
1949
01:37:55.000 --> 01:37:59.479
But yeah, it doesn't have to be a top guy,
1950
01:37:59.600 --> 01:38:04.439
that's for sure. It's if it choosing between Cody and Punk.
1951
01:38:04.680 --> 01:38:06.880
It's really hard to give you an answer, Kylon, just
1952
01:38:06.920 --> 01:38:10.079
because we know that Punk was doing some creative work
1953
01:38:10.119 --> 01:38:13.880
on Collision when when that show launched, and it was
1954
01:38:13.920 --> 01:38:17.720
an entertaining show, But that's a really small sample size.
1955
01:38:17.760 --> 01:38:20.600
We don't have a whole lot of knowledge of what
1956
01:38:20.680 --> 01:38:22.840
Cody did and what he didn't do. I mean some
1957
01:38:22.920 --> 01:38:27.000
of his weight said with a W. And then it's just,
1958
01:38:27.439 --> 01:38:32.760
you know, how can they coexist on a corporate level?
1959
01:38:33.119 --> 01:38:36.560
You would think Cody's probably more likely to do that
1960
01:38:36.640 --> 01:38:40.560
than Punk based on Punk's history. People change as they
1961
01:38:40.560 --> 01:38:46.880
get older. Who knows, say again you think right right, Yeah,
1962
01:38:47.439 --> 01:38:50.199
It's just a really tough one. It's one of those
1963
01:38:50.199 --> 01:38:53.560
things where I'd love to, you know, if I were
1964
01:38:53.600 --> 01:38:56.960
in let's say, are you manual shoes? And Paul Avec
1965
01:38:57.560 --> 01:39:01.319
quit to go to aw today? And I was thinking
1966
01:39:01.359 --> 01:39:03.359
of these two guys. I mean, I just there'd be
1967
01:39:03.359 --> 01:39:06.000
a lot of questions that I'd want to know about
1968
01:39:06.039 --> 01:39:08.399
their philosophy and things, and I'd want to know, like,
1969
01:39:08.520 --> 01:39:13.399
is every idea just recycled like it wasn't it? Cools?
1970
01:39:13.680 --> 01:39:15.800
There was a little bit of that. I don't mind
1971
01:39:16.000 --> 01:39:19.079
that you borrow from the past, but you don't want
1972
01:39:19.119 --> 01:39:22.199
it to just be nothing. But and I think people
1973
01:39:22.239 --> 01:39:24.399
get way too excited, Oh my gosh, look at the
1974
01:39:24.479 --> 01:39:28.039
open collision with those old school Saturday Night Saturday Night's
1975
01:39:28.039 --> 01:39:32.880
main event, Like, yeah, that's great, it's fun, but it's
1976
01:39:32.920 --> 01:39:35.359
also like, can I get some innovation to go along
1977
01:39:35.399 --> 01:39:37.800
with it? And I don't know how much you'd get
1978
01:39:37.840 --> 01:39:41.359
from either guy without talking to them and knowing what
1979
01:39:41.399 --> 01:39:42.600
their approach would be.
1980
01:39:43.640 --> 01:39:45.840
I think Cody would be the guy I'd most want
1981
01:39:45.880 --> 01:39:49.000
to work with if I'm a top corporate executive, because
1982
01:39:49.000 --> 01:39:55.359
I think Cody is diplomatic, level headed, thoughtful, pensive, accommodating,
1983
01:39:55.920 --> 01:39:58.119
but also would have an opinion and grew up in
1984
01:39:58.159 --> 01:40:01.039
the business and all of that just from a like
1985
01:40:01.560 --> 01:40:05.119
not not that you should want. You shouldn't decide who
1986
01:40:05.119 --> 01:40:06.920
the book or should be based on who you who
1987
01:40:06.960 --> 01:40:10.800
would get along with. Nearly no nothing top corporate executives
1988
01:40:10.800 --> 01:40:13.920
who have pet ideas and want to infringe upon smart
1989
01:40:13.920 --> 01:40:16.399
people who know better, which unfortunately happens in a lot
1990
01:40:16.439 --> 01:40:19.399
of situations with corporate and TV executives. We saw that
1991
01:40:19.479 --> 01:40:21.439
in TNA with spiked TV executives going oh, you should
1992
01:40:21.439 --> 01:40:22.840
bring this guy because I liked him when I watched
1993
01:40:22.880 --> 01:40:24.600
Nitro back in the day. You know, it's like, come on,
1994
01:40:24.720 --> 01:40:26.680
let the wrestling people do their job, and you just
1995
01:40:26.760 --> 01:40:30.479
you just watch and buy a T shirt. But that said,
1996
01:40:30.600 --> 01:40:32.640
there is something to that. Also, you know, you do
1997
01:40:32.720 --> 01:40:34.800
want someone who who wrestlers are going to look up
1998
01:40:34.840 --> 01:40:37.079
to and and and uh, who's not going to show
1999
01:40:37.159 --> 01:40:40.880
up one week seeming like they're a team player and
2000
01:40:40.920 --> 01:40:42.800
the next week for no reason that you can ascertain,
2001
01:40:42.880 --> 01:40:45.199
but it was some random tweet test them in such
2002
01:40:45.199 --> 01:40:47.479
a mood that they won't even talk to anybody. You know.
2003
01:40:47.560 --> 01:40:50.079
It's just like, you know, you need somebody who's who's
2004
01:40:50.119 --> 01:40:52.560
who's a grown up in a good way?
2005
01:40:53.000 --> 01:40:56.760
And does uh does aj Lee come along with punk?
2006
01:40:56.880 --> 01:41:01.159
Because if she's doing well she career, that wouldn't be
2007
01:41:01.199 --> 01:41:03.439
such a bad thing if she was interested in helping.
2008
01:41:04.359 --> 01:41:10.600
Sure, yeah, yeah, all right, uh Jermaine Jermaine Jones Jason
2009
01:41:10.880 --> 01:41:14.479
from Chicago. Great, awesome, let's say this goes. Hey guys,
2010
01:41:14.520 --> 01:41:16.640
hope you too are looking forward to a long Viking season.
2011
01:41:16.680 --> 01:41:19.640
Good luck. I mean I barely think of it really
2012
01:41:19.640 --> 01:41:22.520
bothers me when I hear podcasters say things like Cody
2013
01:41:22.520 --> 01:41:26.439
should turn heel or other wrestlers. Why is it always
2014
01:41:26.520 --> 01:41:28.399
used as a crutch and wrestling instead of, you know,
2015
01:41:28.479 --> 01:41:31.600
the option of better booking or storylines. It's going to
2016
01:41:32.199 --> 01:41:37.479
the dut is going to the dud turn him her heel.
2017
01:41:37.880 --> 01:41:40.119
Takes pressure off a guy like Connor to be better
2018
01:41:40.159 --> 01:41:43.239
at his million dollar job. What what word does he
2019
01:41:43.239 --> 01:41:47.319
have is going to the dud turn him heel. I
2020
01:41:47.319 --> 01:41:49.960
don't know what that word's supposed to be. No idea,
2021
01:41:50.319 --> 01:41:53.000
All right, Jason should? Should people prefreate their questions before
2022
01:41:53.000 --> 01:41:53.560
sending them in?
2023
01:41:54.159 --> 01:41:55.199
Jermaine definitely should.
2024
01:41:55.319 --> 01:41:58.079
Yes, just read him out loud to someone else, like first,
2025
01:41:58.600 --> 01:41:59.039
go all right.
2026
01:42:01.159 --> 01:42:03.199
The worst is if Jermaine is sending in his question
2027
01:42:03.439 --> 01:42:05.840
right before a live show, then I'm like, oh no,
2028
01:42:06.479 --> 01:42:08.640
but yeah. Otherwise I'm able to go through and go
2029
01:42:08.840 --> 01:42:10.119
I think I've deciphered this.
2030
01:42:10.680 --> 01:42:13.720
Yeah. So my answer to it is I'm on Jermaine's
2031
01:42:13.720 --> 01:42:17.199
team on this one. I do not believe that. Okay,
2032
01:42:17.239 --> 01:42:19.399
I've been the person pushing back on oh you got
2033
01:42:19.479 --> 01:42:23.640
to turn Cody heel? I do it? Actually, I was
2034
01:42:23.640 --> 01:42:27.680
it Friday on this Backtump post show. Somebody caller brought
2035
01:42:27.760 --> 01:42:30.159
up like fans being fickle and that that people say
2036
01:42:30.159 --> 01:42:32.479
fans are fickle, and I was like, no, when you
2037
01:42:32.520 --> 01:42:35.680
hear someone the term on television, the fans are fickle.
2038
01:42:35.760 --> 01:42:38.239
That is a booker who is blaming the fans for
2039
01:42:38.279 --> 01:42:40.520
their own lack of connection to what the fans want,
2040
01:42:40.560 --> 01:42:42.159
and now they're blaming the fans for not going with
2041
01:42:42.159 --> 01:42:44.479
a program. So when they say fans are fickled, that
2042
01:42:44.640 --> 01:42:48.560
is a cover story for the booker not being in
2043
01:42:48.680 --> 01:42:51.439
sync with what the fans want and then being befuddled
2044
01:42:51.479 --> 01:42:55.279
and then blaming the fans. So don't buy it. And
2045
01:42:55.479 --> 01:42:58.199
and of course people online you can find fickleness. You
2046
01:42:58.199 --> 01:43:02.319
can also find fans online who collect flowers and have
2047
01:43:02.359 --> 01:43:04.640
a flower named after each wrestler. You can find anything
2048
01:43:04.680 --> 01:43:07.439
online on social media that is not reality, and it
2049
01:43:07.439 --> 01:43:10.079
should not. I don't even like it entered into conversations
2050
01:43:10.119 --> 01:43:12.920
like who cares what your algorithm has served you? It
2051
01:43:12.960 --> 01:43:16.319
is not representative of anything based in reality. It's just
2052
01:43:16.359 --> 01:43:18.560
some thing. So that little.
2053
01:43:18.359 --> 01:43:22.640
Miniver according to my social media, like my political team is,
2054
01:43:23.000 --> 01:43:26.680
my political party is great, and boy, there's a lot
2055
01:43:26.680 --> 01:43:28.199
of wonderful rescue dogs.
2056
01:43:27.920 --> 01:43:33.199
Out there there you go, Yes, exactly, so, yes, I
2057
01:43:33.239 --> 01:43:36.039
do think he'll turns our crutch often for bad booking,
2058
01:43:36.399 --> 01:43:39.039
and I have been advocating that instead of talking about
2059
01:43:39.279 --> 01:43:42.319
turning Cody heel because there's scattered booze. Maybe blame the
2060
01:43:42.319 --> 01:43:44.800
bookers for putting Cody in a position where a guy
2061
01:43:44.800 --> 01:43:50.159
who is mega over and is in some statistical ways
2062
01:43:50.199 --> 01:43:52.279
the best drawing champion in the history of this industry
2063
01:43:52.279 --> 01:43:54.239
as a lead babyface. Now, some of that is the
2064
01:43:54.239 --> 01:43:56.760
Stadium Show era and momentum from the Bloodline and all
2065
01:43:56.800 --> 01:44:00.319
that he inherited, some good stuff, but he's a like
2066
01:44:00.359 --> 01:44:02.119
this idea of John Cena patting scene on the head
2067
01:44:02.119 --> 01:44:03.840
and going, You're going to be something someday when Sina's
2068
01:44:04.000 --> 01:44:09.840
when Cody's already outdrawn Seena and outgated Sena in so
2069
01:44:09.920 --> 01:44:13.439
many statistics, and he actually gets a crowd reaction that
2070
01:44:13.520 --> 01:44:17.640
they're going for. Unlike with John Cena, a few scattered
2071
01:44:17.680 --> 01:44:20.439
booze in the midst of incompetently booking Cody is not
2072
01:44:20.439 --> 01:44:22.199
a reason to turn him heel. Even though he'd be
2073
01:44:22.199 --> 01:44:25.279
a wonderful heel someday and likely will be, you got
2074
01:44:25.319 --> 01:44:27.199
to tweak the booking. So I'm Jason. I know it
2075
01:44:27.279 --> 01:44:28.960
hurts to say this, but I'm with I'm on team
2076
01:44:29.039 --> 01:44:29.520
Jermaine here.
2077
01:44:30.119 --> 01:44:32.439
Oh, occasionally Jermaine has some good point and when he's
2078
01:44:32.479 --> 01:44:35.439
not like just bad mouthing Roman Reigns and Paul Levac
2079
01:44:35.560 --> 01:44:37.479
for no reason and making it seem like, you know,
2080
01:44:37.520 --> 01:44:41.239
we should name the sun after Tony Kahn. Uh, he's fine,
2081
01:44:41.359 --> 01:44:44.880
but yeah, in this case, I also agree. I know
2082
01:44:44.920 --> 01:44:49.119
what he's saying, but I do think that if I mean,
2083
01:44:49.159 --> 01:44:53.359
you're listening to various podcasts, I assume so, I don't
2084
01:44:53.359 --> 01:44:57.000
know you're talking about anyone in particular. But there's Nash,
2085
01:44:57.119 --> 01:44:59.079
it's wrestling. There's always going to be talking of would
2086
01:44:59.079 --> 01:45:02.560
this person be better off heeler babyface? And yeah, there
2087
01:45:02.600 --> 01:45:04.880
are times where it's like, no, you focus on what
2088
01:45:04.920 --> 01:45:07.760
you're doing and do a better job of booking this person.
2089
01:45:08.000 --> 01:45:10.399
But I don't think it's such a negative thing to
2090
01:45:10.439 --> 01:45:13.960
look at the possibility long term of Cody turning heel.
2091
01:45:14.199 --> 01:45:17.039
I think it's going to happen naturally. It's just yeah,
2092
01:45:17.159 --> 01:45:18.880
like you're saying, do it at the right time, do
2093
01:45:18.960 --> 01:45:21.760
it right, and don't just well, the bookings bad, so
2094
01:45:21.880 --> 01:45:24.199
magically a heel turn is going to fix everything, because
2095
01:45:24.199 --> 01:45:25.840
it's not if the bookings isn't there.
2096
01:45:26.760 --> 01:45:29.920
Yeah, yep, all right, Jason, I know you got to go,
2097
01:45:30.000 --> 01:45:33.279
but give me your h with as much time as
2098
01:45:33.279 --> 01:45:36.239
you have your synopsis of what is going to happen
2099
01:45:36.319 --> 01:45:38.760
with with the Queen of the ring, with the remaining
2100
01:45:38.760 --> 01:45:40.680
candidates are what are the options? What are you predicting?
2101
01:45:41.039 --> 01:45:44.000
What are we down to Charlotte and Live we'll face
2102
01:45:44.079 --> 01:45:49.239
the winner of no? Yeah, just deal I have Yeah,
2103
01:45:49.279 --> 01:45:52.560
that's right. I have to think that there's a reason
2104
01:45:53.039 --> 01:45:57.319
Live Morgan is in this. I thought it was to
2105
01:45:57.359 --> 01:46:02.640
do something with either Roxane Perez or Raquel Rodriguez, but
2106
01:46:02.680 --> 01:46:08.159
they're out and I really don't know. And that's another one.
2107
01:46:08.960 --> 01:46:12.079
I guess if she wins, she faces herself or I
2108
01:46:13.319 --> 01:46:16.079
don't know. I mean, does she get do they make
2109
01:46:16.119 --> 01:46:19.680
an exception for her? I don't think they're doing champion
2110
01:46:19.800 --> 01:46:24.159
versus champion, so I would think that Live there's a boy.
2111
01:46:24.800 --> 01:46:30.600
I could see her going to the finals and losing.
2112
01:46:32.199 --> 01:46:34.800
I've been given this nearly enough thought what I'd like
2113
01:46:34.920 --> 01:46:37.119
to see, just selfishly, because I think could be a
2114
01:46:37.159 --> 01:46:41.119
hell of a match, and they're both stars as EO
2115
01:46:41.239 --> 01:46:44.119
against Charlotte. I just don't know if they're gonna go
2116
01:46:44.199 --> 01:46:49.039
with that. But if they do, boys, it really comes
2117
01:46:49.079 --> 01:46:51.640
down for me to what they do in that match
2118
01:46:51.680 --> 01:46:54.279
on Friday. I think the winner of that match wins
2119
01:46:54.279 --> 01:46:54.880
this tournament.
2120
01:46:55.199 --> 01:46:57.880
I could imagine Eo beating Morgan to earn a title
2121
01:46:57.920 --> 01:46:58.920
shot against liv Morgan.
2122
01:47:00.199 --> 01:47:02.840
Yeah, I suppose now that you say that, Yeah.
2123
01:47:02.680 --> 01:47:04.439
I guess, yeah, I mean Charlotten.
2124
01:47:04.520 --> 01:47:05.560
I'm up against the clock.
2125
01:47:06.039 --> 01:47:09.239
I know, yep, so Jason. Thanks, PW Membership dot Net.
2126
01:47:09.319 --> 01:47:13.920
Go support Jason, search Pro Wrestling Boom, subscribe to his podcast,
2127
01:47:14.399 --> 01:47:16.640
and go to his website progresling dot net. It's updated
2128
01:47:16.640 --> 01:47:18.279
all the time with news. Jason, did I hit the ball? Put?
2129
01:47:18.279 --> 01:47:20.000
Sorry I didn't give you a chance to do the long
2130
01:47:20.039 --> 01:47:20.640
plug earlier.
2131
01:47:20.680 --> 01:47:23.439
You nailed it. Check out the Progressling Boom podcast. Do
2132
01:47:23.479 --> 01:47:25.399
a search for prog Wrestling Moom on Apple Podcasts wherever
2133
01:47:25.399 --> 01:47:28.159
you get your pods. And again, PW Membership dot net,
2134
01:47:28.199 --> 01:47:28.520
thank you.
2135
01:47:28.880 --> 01:47:30.760
Thanks, Sorry to emailers we didn't get too Maybe we'll
2136
01:47:30.760 --> 01:47:33.479
do a mail big later. Keep the questions coming, Thanks everybody,
2137
01:47:33.600 --> 01:47:37.000
And as noted earlier, a bonus segment now last week's
2138
01:47:37.119 --> 01:47:41.640
Nicky's Club podcast featuring Nick Barbatti's interview with Lizzie Flanagan
2139
01:47:41.960 --> 01:47:44.319
discussing her new book I Am Your Champion, The Life
2140
01:47:44.319 --> 01:47:46.840
and Death of wrestler Gino ornettez let's get to it.
2141
01:47:48.359 --> 01:47:51.640
On Tuesday nights. The conversation doesn't stop when nxtnds, it's
2142
01:47:51.760 --> 01:47:54.159
just getting started. I'm Nate Lindberg and alongside my co
2143
01:47:54.239 --> 01:47:57.199
host Kelly Wells, we bring you PWT Talks NXT.
2144
01:47:57.520 --> 01:47:58.279
We go live on the.
2145
01:47:58.239 --> 01:48:00.920
Pw torch YouTube channel about fifteen minutes after the show
2146
01:48:00.920 --> 01:48:03.640
to break down matches, storylines, and surprises, and we take
2147
01:48:03.680 --> 01:48:06.079
your questions and comments from the live chat. Miss us live.
2148
01:48:06.119 --> 01:48:07.399
But you still want to be part of the show,
2149
01:48:07.520 --> 01:48:10.279
send your thoughts to PW torch nxdatgmail dot com and
2150
01:48:10.359 --> 01:48:12.720
catch the replay on YouTube or on the PTERW torch
2151
01:48:12.800 --> 01:48:15.520
Daily cast feed. Just search PW torch on Apple Podcasts,
2152
01:48:15.520 --> 01:48:17.800
Spotify or wherever you listen, and of course you can
2153
01:48:17.840 --> 01:48:27.279
always stream the latest shows at pw torch dot com.
2154
01:48:27.319 --> 01:48:29.840
Hello everybody, and welcome to what I like to call
2155
01:48:29.840 --> 01:48:32.119
the Nikkis Club with Nick bar Patty. This is a
2156
01:48:32.239 --> 01:48:34.800
chance you know everybody, as I like to say, as
2157
01:48:34.920 --> 01:48:38.319
they're the the wrestling friends that they talk to. Sometimes
2158
01:48:38.319 --> 01:48:41.960
it's just themselves. But I grew up I'm sharing this
2159
01:48:42.119 --> 01:48:44.600
story for our special guest. I grew up not having
2160
01:48:44.720 --> 01:48:49.159
very very many wrestling fans in my life. So as
2161
01:48:49.159 --> 01:48:52.079
I've gotten older and really been able to cultivate through
2162
01:48:53.039 --> 01:48:55.760
all the different connection opportunities that take place online now,
2163
01:48:56.239 --> 01:48:59.439
you know, creating a world of wrestling fandom that I
2164
01:48:59.479 --> 01:49:02.720
can share. And our special guest today actually grew up
2165
01:49:02.760 --> 01:49:05.720
not far from me, which is interesting to know that
2166
01:49:05.760 --> 01:49:07.600
we could have been touching base about wrestling a long
2167
01:49:07.640 --> 01:49:11.439
time ago. It is indeed Lizzie Flannagan and as you
2168
01:49:11.520 --> 01:49:14.880
hear God forbid I start talking, Lakota finds every toy
2169
01:49:14.640 --> 01:49:17.920
to start kicking up. But Lizzie is the author of
2170
01:49:17.960 --> 01:49:19.960
a brand new book about the life and death of
2171
01:49:20.039 --> 01:49:24.319
wrestler Gino Hernandez is called I Am Your Champion, and
2172
01:49:24.359 --> 01:49:27.119
it is indeed a fantastic book, and as I like
2173
01:49:27.199 --> 01:49:31.039
to say, it is a wonderful, wonderful companion piece to
2174
01:49:31.079 --> 01:49:34.720
my favorite wrestling book ever by Gary Hart called My
2175
01:49:34.840 --> 01:49:37.520
Life in Wrestling. Lizzie, thank you so much for being
2176
01:49:37.560 --> 01:49:41.119
here today. I'm gonna grab this real quick, okay, and
2177
01:49:42.239 --> 01:49:45.279
get right to it. So, Lizzie, I have to say,
2178
01:49:45.800 --> 01:49:50.840
what made a gal from Philadelphia want to start researching
2179
01:49:50.960 --> 01:49:53.279
Gino Hernandez the life and death of him?
2180
01:49:53.760 --> 01:49:57.239
M hm? So I started with my dad. Actually he
2181
01:49:58.359 --> 01:50:01.640
was avon Eric fan in the moment, like as they wrestled,
2182
01:50:01.640 --> 01:50:05.199
because even though we are in Philly, he was able
2183
01:50:05.239 --> 01:50:11.159
to watch the syndicated shows through ESP So when I
2184
01:50:11.199 --> 01:50:14.000
was a little kid, he would show me wrestling. He
2185
01:50:14.079 --> 01:50:17.560
wasn't really into w W like Carroen WWE, so he
2186
01:50:17.560 --> 01:50:20.640
would show me stuff from back in his day. Dust
2187
01:50:20.680 --> 01:50:24.159
the Magnum Tier and the Van Erks were a big
2188
01:50:24.199 --> 01:50:27.560
part of that. So you watched a lot of w
2189
01:50:27.680 --> 01:50:31.479
C c W and I never really understood it. I
2190
01:50:31.520 --> 01:50:34.319
think I was too young to get it right. It's
2191
01:50:34.359 --> 01:50:37.600
weird to say about wrestling, but like wrestling from another time,
2192
01:50:37.720 --> 01:50:41.840
it's just it was such an alien world. But then
2193
01:50:42.239 --> 01:50:45.520
I started watching wrestling kind of on my own when
2194
01:50:45.520 --> 01:50:49.239
I was then I fell back into the wrestling that
2195
01:50:49.239 --> 01:50:54.880
my dad showed me. He drawn to Gino, Yeah, mostly
2196
01:50:55.079 --> 01:50:59.319
like one because obviously he's so charismatic, but also his
2197
01:50:59.439 --> 01:51:06.319
sudden app since was kind of striking. And then you
2198
01:51:06.439 --> 01:51:08.319
start digging and you see a lot of the like
2199
01:51:08.600 --> 01:51:12.119
conspiracy theories like we talked a little bit about, and
2200
01:51:12.159 --> 01:51:16.000
then there's so much more to his career than I
2201
01:51:16.039 --> 01:51:19.159
think people realize as so much more to his influence
2202
01:51:19.279 --> 01:51:24.760
on the business, so I felt like he was worth
2203
01:51:25.000 --> 01:51:28.880
further study, you know, yeah, you.
2204
01:51:28.840 --> 01:51:31.680
Know I felt the same. You know, I didn't. I
2205
01:51:31.720 --> 01:51:34.720
think you're right. Given where we are, our parents grew up,
2206
01:51:35.359 --> 01:51:38.800
there was this outlet for w CCW to be you know,
2207
01:51:38.920 --> 01:51:42.560
non traditionally shown in the Northeast, and so, like you,
2208
01:51:42.640 --> 01:51:45.640
my dad also was very familiar with the van Erics,
2209
01:51:45.800 --> 01:51:49.199
and I never heard of Gino Hernandez. I became very
2210
01:51:49.279 --> 01:51:53.159
familiar with him by Bruce Pritchard's podcast, and so when
2211
01:51:53.199 --> 01:51:58.840
he was doing his Houston Wrestling special episode, he touched
2212
01:51:58.880 --> 01:52:01.359
on you know a lot of these these conspiracy theories
2213
01:52:01.359 --> 01:52:04.760
as you had mentioned, but also just the really interesting
2214
01:52:04.840 --> 01:52:08.039
life of Gino Hernandez that I had never even known existed,
2215
01:52:08.119 --> 01:52:12.119
and I suddenly wanted more, more information, more information. But
2216
01:52:12.199 --> 01:52:16.760
I had heard it very close to the release of
2217
01:52:16.800 --> 01:52:19.560
the Dark Side of the Ring documentary, which you reference
2218
01:52:19.640 --> 01:52:21.199
a lot in the book, And I think you do
2219
01:52:21.279 --> 01:52:25.560
a great job of balancing, you know, sourcing, you know,
2220
01:52:25.600 --> 01:52:28.960
places where you've got information, but also then adding new information.
2221
01:52:29.359 --> 01:52:32.840
How much did the Dark Side documentary influence your writing here?
2222
01:52:33.680 --> 01:52:37.560
It was interesting. It really only came into play when
2223
01:52:37.560 --> 01:52:39.319
I was writing part five because the book is divided
2224
01:52:39.319 --> 01:52:40.159
into five parts.
2225
01:52:40.399 --> 01:52:42.399
Sure, so.
2226
01:52:45.359 --> 01:52:47.760
Yeah, like Dark Skir of the Ring really only talked
2227
01:52:47.800 --> 01:52:51.239
about well, I mean obviously his death, but like there
2228
01:52:51.279 --> 01:52:54.439
is a lot of stuff that they didn't touch on
2229
01:52:54.479 --> 01:52:58.640
at all. Like I talked a lot about you, you know,
2230
01:52:58.800 --> 01:53:04.159
in Houston, San Antonio and all across the territory. So
2231
01:53:04.359 --> 01:53:07.600
really yes, yeah, but then and also I found I
2232
01:53:07.640 --> 01:53:10.920
watched The Dark Eye of the Ring, I think like
2233
01:53:11.039 --> 01:53:14.079
pretty soon after it came out, but I rewatched it
2234
01:53:14.119 --> 01:53:18.279
when I was researching, and you kind of found a
2235
01:53:18.279 --> 01:53:22.359
lot of like David Manning and Mark Laurance would like
2236
01:53:22.880 --> 01:53:26.600
expand further in other interviews. Yes, it was a good
2237
01:53:26.720 --> 01:53:29.399
like launching point, if that makes sense.
2238
01:53:30.239 --> 01:53:33.039
Yeah, really well it was probably it was one of
2239
01:53:33.079 --> 01:53:35.840
the earliest dark sides that were created. So you wonder, now,
2240
01:53:35.960 --> 01:53:38.279
if you know, all these years later, six seven years later,
2241
01:53:38.720 --> 01:53:41.079
if they were able to redo it again, you know,
2242
01:53:41.159 --> 01:53:43.800
what would be what would be what information would be added,
2243
01:53:43.840 --> 01:53:47.680
what would they what would they change? You know? But
2244
01:53:47.680 --> 01:53:50.199
but the thing is with all of these things, you know,
2245
01:53:50.279 --> 01:53:53.479
you're dealing with wrestlers, and wrestlers have motivations of things
2246
01:53:53.560 --> 01:53:55.079
that they want to get out things that they don't
2247
01:53:55.119 --> 01:53:59.279
want to share. It's a very mysterious but fascinating world.
2248
01:53:59.640 --> 01:54:04.079
And so in your journey, was there any one that
2249
01:54:04.279 --> 01:54:08.359
was particularly fascinating to you to interview? We're to you know,
2250
01:54:08.560 --> 01:54:11.720
to talk to at about this particular topic.
2251
01:54:12.199 --> 01:54:12.560
Mm hmm.
2252
01:54:13.960 --> 01:54:16.920
I got to talk to Tom Prichard a lot. He
2253
01:54:17.039 --> 01:54:20.880
was a yeah, he's he's suck, he's so nice and
2254
01:54:20.880 --> 01:54:25.359
me he's so like wise, like a weird thing to say,
2255
01:54:25.920 --> 01:54:28.600
but just I also remember we were talking on the
2256
01:54:28.600 --> 01:54:30.199
phone once and he said, so, what part of Texas
2257
01:54:30.239 --> 01:54:33.079
are you from. I was like, I'm from Philly actually,
2258
01:54:33.920 --> 01:54:37.359
and he thought that was really strange, but just for
2259
01:54:37.439 --> 01:54:40.039
the reason of like why why are you You're twenty
2260
01:54:40.039 --> 01:54:41.439
five and you're writing about you know why?
2261
01:54:42.039 --> 01:54:42.199
Right?
2262
01:54:42.399 --> 01:54:45.960
And yeah, I also got to talk to This was
2263
01:54:46.000 --> 01:54:48.520
after the book came out. Actually, I got to talk
2264
01:54:48.560 --> 01:54:51.479
to George Napolitano, the photographer.
2265
01:54:52.119 --> 01:54:52.239
Right.
2266
01:54:52.920 --> 01:54:55.600
We met at the twenty three hundred arena during a
2267
01:54:55.680 --> 01:54:59.079
Ring of Honor show, and I brought with I like
2268
01:54:59.119 --> 01:55:01.279
to bring a little drinking with me. I get anxious,
2269
01:55:01.319 --> 01:55:03.079
and it's like weird, I bring a little of it
2270
01:55:03.239 --> 01:55:05.399
with me when I go up and that night. It
2271
01:55:05.439 --> 01:55:08.920
was like Kevin von eric cart and I like, I
2272
01:55:09.000 --> 01:55:10.520
had it in my pocket. I just showed it to
2273
01:55:10.560 --> 01:55:12.159
them and he said, I took that picture?
2274
01:55:13.079 --> 01:55:13.239
Why?
2275
01:55:14.359 --> 01:55:15.640
How amazing is that?
2276
01:55:17.760 --> 01:55:20.479
So then we started talking and he talked to me
2277
01:55:20.520 --> 01:55:23.680
about how he lived with Gino for a time because
2278
01:55:23.720 --> 01:55:27.199
he moved to Houston and it was like them and
2279
01:55:27.199 --> 01:55:31.359
like jose Lethario, I was like sutding wrestlers and photographers.
2280
01:55:33.600 --> 01:55:35.520
So we talked a little bit about Gino. He said
2281
01:55:35.520 --> 01:55:39.640
that like, originally he was keeping up kank fabe. It
2282
01:55:39.680 --> 01:55:43.199
was kind of acting like the yeah hoity toity ragant guy,
2283
01:55:43.479 --> 01:55:46.319
but then eventually he let his guard down and George
2284
01:55:46.319 --> 01:55:47.680
found out he's actually very sweet.
2285
01:55:47.960 --> 01:55:51.640
So yeah, yeah, it's so it's so crazy because you
2286
01:55:51.640 --> 01:55:53.520
think about it. These are I mean, we're talking about
2287
01:55:53.520 --> 01:55:56.159
well over forty some years ago, these individuals, and that
2288
01:55:56.199 --> 01:55:58.760
they're still here and still involved in wrestling, and for
2289
01:55:58.840 --> 01:56:02.960
you to have that you serendipitous moment, that's incredible. That
2290
01:56:03.119 --> 01:56:07.079
is a that's a really fascinating side story. Let me
2291
01:56:07.279 --> 01:56:10.399
do this. How truthful did you think did you get
2292
01:56:10.399 --> 01:56:13.880
the impression folks were about talking about this particular topic.
2293
01:56:13.920 --> 01:56:17.079
Did you feel that there was a genuiness. Did you
2294
01:56:17.119 --> 01:56:20.399
feel like there was holding back still? Where were you
2295
01:56:20.479 --> 01:56:20.680
on that?
2296
01:56:21.439 --> 01:56:25.359
He really depends on the person. Okay, I was unable
2297
01:56:25.399 --> 01:56:27.840
to talk to Jake Roberts for this. I did reach
2298
01:56:27.880 --> 01:56:31.439
out to him and he sent an email back that
2299
01:56:31.479 --> 01:56:34.760
said he was GINO is a difficult topic for him
2300
01:56:34.800 --> 01:56:36.479
to talk about and he would rather not And I
2301
01:56:36.520 --> 01:56:40.920
was like, oh my god, yes, fine, Like no, but
2302
01:56:43.600 --> 01:56:45.640
he did speak a little bit about GENA and all
2303
01:56:45.680 --> 01:56:49.439
of his responses are very guarded, and you kind of
2304
01:56:49.479 --> 01:56:52.000
wonder how much of that is the conspiracy theories tough,
2305
01:56:52.039 --> 01:56:54.159
and how much of that is just like this is
2306
01:56:54.199 --> 01:56:56.920
a friend that Jake lost and he doesn't want to
2307
01:56:56.920 --> 01:57:01.439
talk about it.
2308
01:57:00.079 --> 01:57:02.760
Or how much did Jake talk too much already about it?
2309
01:57:02.920 --> 01:57:04.760
With your references, I don't want to give away that
2310
01:57:04.840 --> 01:57:09.439
portion because that's also that's a bit too tied to well,
2311
01:57:09.479 --> 01:57:11.279
I'll just make reference to it as a member of
2312
01:57:11.319 --> 01:57:15.479
the LGBTQ community myself. It's you never knew if when
2313
01:57:15.479 --> 01:57:18.920
people were being accused of their relationship with that community
2314
01:57:18.960 --> 01:57:21.760
back in the eighties, if what the intentions were, and
2315
01:57:21.840 --> 01:57:24.720
so that of everything, of all the rumors in gossip,
2316
01:57:24.800 --> 01:57:26.479
for me, that's the one I think you do. I'm
2317
01:57:26.479 --> 01:57:27.840
going to leave it to your book to do the
2318
01:57:27.880 --> 01:57:32.079
storytelling on, to leave people to determine what's the what
2319
01:57:32.199 --> 01:57:35.159
is the the truth? If you would behind what they
2320
01:57:35.239 --> 01:57:38.359
think of that chapter. The one bit I want to
2321
01:57:38.439 --> 01:57:40.800
jump into, if you would allow me to, is the
2322
01:57:40.840 --> 01:57:43.840
Paul Bosch of it all, and Paul Bosh to me
2323
01:57:44.359 --> 01:57:47.800
is a bit of the fascinating of all the different
2324
01:57:47.800 --> 01:57:51.479
elements of conspiracy. Because of all of them, I'm gonna
2325
01:57:51.479 --> 01:57:53.119
be frank with you, that's the one I have think
2326
01:57:53.239 --> 01:57:56.840
has the most possibility of being true. And I think
2327
01:57:57.159 --> 01:58:00.159
I hear from you know all the interviews in the
2328
01:58:00.239 --> 01:58:02.119
Dark Side of the Ring the Well Darks that a
2329
01:58:02.199 --> 01:58:04.520
Ring notably did not include it in their episode only
2330
01:58:04.520 --> 01:58:08.560
as a bonus feature. The denials now there are, Lizzie,
2331
01:58:08.600 --> 01:58:10.199
allow me. I know, as I said, you make a
2332
01:58:10.279 --> 01:58:13.760
very clear stance that you know the lead the conspiracies out. However,
2333
01:58:13.840 --> 01:58:16.000
I think you can't not touch on some of these things.
2334
01:58:16.359 --> 01:58:19.840
There are very real reasons why folks would deny he
2335
01:58:20.119 --> 01:58:22.479
is the son, and you have to just do math
2336
01:58:22.640 --> 01:58:23.640
to determine why.
2337
01:58:23.720 --> 01:58:23.880
Right.
2338
01:58:24.159 --> 01:58:30.399
Yeah, So, of of that particular topic, did you feel
2339
01:58:30.399 --> 01:58:34.600
confident walking away saying they were just a mentor mentee relationship,
2340
01:58:34.960 --> 01:58:37.319
or would you say there's probably more questions still to
2341
01:58:37.359 --> 01:58:38.359
be asked on that topic.
2342
01:58:39.560 --> 01:58:43.319
No, I really don't have any like inklings of doubt.
2343
01:58:43.439 --> 01:58:48.079
Like I talked to this conversation with Tom Prichard and
2344
01:58:48.159 --> 01:58:51.560
he was just very like him. And also Bruce Richard
2345
01:58:51.960 --> 01:58:54.479
have said like they get why people would think that,
2346
01:58:54.600 --> 01:58:59.439
but they like no. And also because it seems that
2347
01:58:59.520 --> 01:59:01.840
like no one in Houston was talking about it, but
2348
01:59:01.880 --> 01:59:04.399
the wrestlers who came to Houston and then left would
2349
01:59:04.479 --> 01:59:08.239
tell that story outside of Texas. So it was one
2350
01:59:08.279 --> 01:59:13.319
of those like whispered down the Wayne things, it seems. Yeah.
2351
01:59:13.399 --> 01:59:17.079
I read a lot of Paul's stuff, like he has
2352
01:59:18.920 --> 01:59:20.800
it's I don't know what you call it, like a
2353
01:59:20.840 --> 01:59:26.479
memoir autobiography about his experience in World War two, that is,
2354
01:59:26.840 --> 01:59:32.079
it's an amazing book. And she's a Forest in Hell
2355
01:59:33.479 --> 01:59:37.239
about the Battle of the Bulch mostly and it's yeah,
2356
01:59:37.279 --> 01:59:39.800
it's really remarkable. But like in that you see so
2357
01:59:39.880 --> 01:59:43.640
much of Pash's personality and like he is so caring
2358
01:59:44.399 --> 01:59:48.159
and like he's very quick. I just remember there's one
2359
01:59:48.199 --> 01:59:51.640
scene where he's getting shot on the front lines, and
2360
01:59:51.680 --> 01:59:54.399
then someone is wounded next to him, and his mind
2361
01:59:54.399 --> 01:59:56.920
immediately shifts to like, how are we going to get back?
2362
01:59:57.000 --> 01:59:59.720
And not having He's very quick to take someone under
2363
01:59:59.720 --> 02:00:01.359
his way and like care for them.
2364
02:00:01.680 --> 02:00:05.279
Well that's hopeful. That's actually very helpful context mm hm.
2365
02:00:05.279 --> 02:00:11.159
So I had that and then the knowing that lou
2366
02:00:11.640 --> 02:00:14.880
Gino's stepfather was booked by Paul Bosh to wrestle in
2367
02:00:14.920 --> 02:00:18.560
Japan when he died. M like that context. It's like
2368
02:00:18.640 --> 02:00:22.640
I could see Paul Bosh having read some of his
2369
02:00:22.760 --> 02:00:27.359
books and his poetry and like seeing how like empathetic
2370
02:00:27.479 --> 02:00:32.079
he comes across his ass and the feeling that kind
2371
02:00:32.119 --> 02:00:36.640
of weight on him looking at Gino and his mom.
2372
02:00:36.960 --> 02:00:40.159
So for me it wasn't really like and then talking
2373
02:00:40.159 --> 02:00:45.159
about the math aspect too, It's just and also the
2374
02:00:45.159 --> 02:00:49.399
fact that Patrice it kind of laughed at the question
2375
02:00:49.800 --> 02:00:54.079
and I was like no, like yeah, because I don't
2376
02:00:54.119 --> 02:00:59.399
see why like has passed away like he's you don't
2377
02:00:59.399 --> 02:01:01.439
need to protect. I don't know why she would do
2378
02:01:01.520 --> 02:01:06.319
that at this point. Yeah.
2379
02:01:06.479 --> 02:01:08.600
Just a reminder you can reach us at Wade Keller
2380
02:01:08.680 --> 02:01:10.720
Post Show at gmail dot com if you're in trusted
2381
02:01:10.760 --> 02:01:13.199
in contributing to the Flagship or Wade Keller Post Show
2382
02:01:13.239 --> 02:01:15.760
at gmail dot com if you're interested in submitting a
2383
02:01:15.840 --> 02:01:17.840
question or a topic or even a rant on the
2384
02:01:17.880 --> 02:01:20.399
Wade Keller Pro Wrestling post shows.
2385
02:01:22.039 --> 02:01:24.159
Well, it's been a recurring it's been a recurring thing.
2386
02:01:24.239 --> 02:01:26.560
The fact that we're in twenty twenty six still talking
2387
02:01:26.640 --> 02:01:30.560
about it is fascinating and obviously all involved or known
2388
02:01:30.600 --> 02:01:34.680
for much more than just that particular piece of rumor.
2389
02:01:35.119 --> 02:01:37.039
I will say, though, Lizzie, to wrap it up, they
2390
02:01:37.039 --> 02:01:39.359
do look off an awful lot alike in they're younger
2391
02:01:39.800 --> 02:01:42.720
in younger days. But you know that I want to
2392
02:01:42.760 --> 02:01:45.000
take that and say, you know, sometimes people are just
2393
02:01:45.079 --> 02:01:47.039
drawn to people that they see a lot in themselves.
2394
02:01:47.119 --> 02:01:49.680
And there's a recurring theme in your book about Geno
2395
02:01:49.800 --> 02:01:52.600
being taken in by these father figure types, whether it
2396
02:01:52.680 --> 02:01:55.079
was Paul Bosh, whether it was his own stepfather. Yes,
2397
02:01:55.159 --> 02:01:57.399
you could say, is well that's his father for one
2398
02:01:57.479 --> 02:02:00.399
ten purposes, sure, but still someone. You mean, there's a
2399
02:02:00.399 --> 02:02:02.880
lot of stepfathers that don't feel as endeared to their
2400
02:02:02.920 --> 02:02:05.560
step children to then go and want to invest in
2401
02:02:05.600 --> 02:02:07.560
the relationship. So then you have Paul Bosh, and then
2402
02:02:07.600 --> 02:02:10.399
you have Gary Hart too. Of course, what did you
2403
02:02:10.520 --> 02:02:13.880
find it was about Gino that was that so many
2404
02:02:13.920 --> 02:02:16.119
people were drawn to? Was it the wounded bird thing?
2405
02:02:16.720 --> 02:02:20.520
Was it the that he had that charismatic X factor
2406
02:02:20.560 --> 02:02:23.960
that folks look for that then translated into the wrestling
2407
02:02:24.039 --> 02:02:25.920
environment or was it all of it? Or maybe were
2408
02:02:25.920 --> 02:02:26.800
they all the same thing?
2409
02:02:27.800 --> 02:02:31.039
Yeah, it's interesting. I think Gary Hart and Paul Bosh
2410
02:02:31.119 --> 02:02:35.479
are like in the right time, and they were the
2411
02:02:35.520 --> 02:02:41.079
right personalities to take on that mentor like role. I
2412
02:02:41.079 --> 02:02:45.079
do you think Gino is also very hungry and knew
2413
02:02:45.079 --> 02:02:50.800
who to talk to right right right, because he wanted
2414
02:02:50.840 --> 02:02:53.199
to drop out of high school and start wrestling as
2415
02:02:53.199 --> 02:02:55.840
soon as his stepfather passed away, but his mom and
2416
02:02:55.880 --> 02:02:58.840
Paul Bosch convinced him to at least graduate high school.
2417
02:03:00.680 --> 02:03:03.119
But that's why, like every Friday he was going to
2418
02:03:03.239 --> 02:03:07.359
Houston and like, well, he's in wrestling and helping to
2419
02:03:07.399 --> 02:03:10.439
sell tickets and sell photographs. So he was like the
2420
02:03:10.439 --> 02:03:13.840
whole time just absorbing all that knowledge. And I wouldn't
2421
02:03:13.840 --> 02:03:16.359
be surprised if he kind of endeared himself to Gary
2422
02:03:16.359 --> 02:03:20.840
Hart and Papage and then like, yeah, he's a good listener.
2423
02:03:20.880 --> 02:03:24.119
Probably he was very wise, like I remember there's one
2424
02:03:24.239 --> 02:03:30.199
article on his rookie year and it says like he
2425
02:03:30.239 --> 02:03:32.600
wrestles like someone who's been in the business for a decade.
2426
02:03:32.680 --> 02:03:37.840
I'm like, well, he kind of has. Jose Lithario, there's
2427
02:03:37.880 --> 02:03:42.439
another mentor was taking him to Mexico before his uh,
2428
02:03:42.680 --> 02:03:44.760
before he could legally wrestle in Texas because he had
2429
02:03:44.760 --> 02:03:48.720
to be eighteen. Lithario was flying him down to Mexico
2430
02:03:48.760 --> 02:03:54.279
and getting reps down there. So yeah, when he actually
2431
02:03:54.319 --> 02:03:57.119
had his like official debut, he had already been wrestling
2432
02:03:57.119 --> 02:04:03.600
for a while. Yeah. I think he also be very charismatic,
2433
02:04:03.720 --> 02:04:06.880
and I think he knew what he wanted and he
2434
02:04:06.960 --> 02:04:11.359
knew who could help him get it. Yeah, and I
2435
02:04:11.359 --> 02:04:15.119
think the people in position to help him were very like, oh,
2436
02:04:15.199 --> 02:04:18.479
just endeared by him. Everyone that talks about you, you know,
2437
02:04:18.560 --> 02:04:21.079
says that they had like a father son relationship to him.
2438
02:04:21.039 --> 02:04:24.560
Right right, right right, I mean it just bursts, it
2439
02:04:24.600 --> 02:04:27.000
burst out of the story, like and you know what's
2440
02:04:27.039 --> 02:04:29.479
so funny is it's probably the same things that drew
2441
02:04:29.640 --> 02:04:31.479
people like me and you to him. You know, when
2442
02:04:31.520 --> 02:04:33.960
you see him, I don't know if you feel this
2443
02:04:34.199 --> 02:04:36.880
and you're like, how did this handsome man who looks
2444
02:04:36.880 --> 02:04:39.319
like he could be a movie star, who you know,
2445
02:04:39.399 --> 02:04:41.479
by all means, could have been what we knew Rick
2446
02:04:41.520 --> 02:04:43.439
Flair to be. Now I'm not talking about technically in
2447
02:04:43.479 --> 02:04:46.359
the ring, but like he just pops off the screen,
2448
02:04:46.600 --> 02:04:49.279
and how did this all go wrong? And it's really,
2449
02:04:49.600 --> 02:04:51.680
you know, you do a great job in the book
2450
02:04:51.720 --> 02:04:54.119
of telling the tale of Texas, which is really at
2451
02:04:54.119 --> 02:04:56.960
the in the eighties, which is there's such an intertwinement
2452
02:04:57.079 --> 02:05:04.760
between wrestling, religion, drugs, you know, power, all of it
2453
02:05:04.840 --> 02:05:07.319
is tied together. Even though we own this oil industry
2454
02:05:07.319 --> 02:05:10.920
at one point, you know, you bring in because it's
2455
02:05:10.920 --> 02:05:14.279
it's literally the economy of Texas that all converged. And
2456
02:05:14.800 --> 02:05:17.840
I left reading your book going, I don't know that
2457
02:05:17.920 --> 02:05:20.920
Gino Hernandez ever could have made it anywhere else because
2458
02:05:21.119 --> 02:05:23.560
I just, first of all, timing was not allowed. He
2459
02:05:23.640 --> 02:05:27.399
was seemingly too far gone in terms of his paranoia
2460
02:05:27.520 --> 02:05:30.520
and just drug used to have made a successful transition,
2461
02:05:30.800 --> 02:05:33.800
you know, in nineteen eighty five to Jim Crockett Promotions
2462
02:05:33.880 --> 02:05:36.479
or even WWE. It seems like he was either too
2463
02:05:36.479 --> 02:05:38.640
many years too soon or too late, one of the
2464
02:05:38.640 --> 02:05:42.039
two in order to make it to that next level.
2465
02:05:42.680 --> 02:05:45.520
In one of the larger companies, but it also seemed
2466
02:05:45.720 --> 02:05:48.520
that he didn't want to leave Texas. Do you think
2467
02:05:48.560 --> 02:05:52.199
that was his intertwinement with some of the illegal activity
2468
02:05:52.199 --> 02:05:56.319
that is referenced, or was Texas just his home? He
2469
02:05:56.319 --> 02:05:58.800
made the brief trip to Georgia and was tempted there,
2470
02:05:59.239 --> 02:06:02.720
but after that seemed like his desires to travel stunted.
2471
02:06:03.800 --> 02:06:06.640
Yeah, I do, I think there. I think he had
2472
02:06:06.680 --> 02:06:10.600
some lucrative curricular activities.
2473
02:06:11.680 --> 02:06:12.640
Him in Texas.
2474
02:06:12.840 --> 02:06:17.239
I think he also did. There's a random gap after
2475
02:06:17.359 --> 02:06:20.199
his feud with Totally Blanchard and before he makes his
2476
02:06:20.600 --> 02:06:24.279
w CCW like full time debut where he does try
2477
02:06:24.319 --> 02:06:27.239
to start his acting career and we never really find
2478
02:06:27.439 --> 02:06:30.920
out like how they panned out, because ever friend that
2479
02:06:31.000 --> 02:06:35.359
I could talk to you was in Texas, and like, yeah,
2480
02:06:35.359 --> 02:06:38.079
I think if he were to ever leave Texas and
2481
02:06:38.159 --> 02:06:41.239
leave wrestling, it would have been to go to Hollywood.
2482
02:06:42.800 --> 02:06:46.039
So yeah, I know very Hart was trying to get
2483
02:06:46.119 --> 02:06:51.680
him into Jim Crockett promotions around like eighty five once
2484
02:06:51.720 --> 02:06:53.600
he saw kind of like the path that Gina was
2485
02:06:53.640 --> 02:06:57.479
heading down. Right, Yeah, that didn't pan out either, but
2486
02:06:57.520 --> 02:07:02.359
I do think that could have worked. Yeah, and then
2487
02:07:02.359 --> 02:07:04.560
he would have been alongside the Four Horsemen, not part
2488
02:07:04.600 --> 02:07:09.159
of the Four Horsemen, but like infamiliar company, like reunited
2489
02:07:09.159 --> 02:07:09.640
with totally.
2490
02:07:12.359 --> 02:07:14.359
Well, you could see him in either one of two paths, right,
2491
02:07:14.359 --> 02:07:16.239
one of the Four Horsemen or the million Dollar Man,
2492
02:07:16.359 --> 02:07:18.800
like I mean, there was a role for him in
2493
02:07:18.840 --> 02:07:22.199
either of the two major companies. That it's so unfortunate
2494
02:07:22.279 --> 02:07:25.159
that it just didn't happen. I mean, it really is.
2495
02:07:25.239 --> 02:07:27.760
I lived on this earth one year with Gino Hernandez.
2496
02:07:27.800 --> 02:07:30.760
I mean he I was born in February nineteen eighty five.
2497
02:07:30.920 --> 02:07:33.880
So it was like to read this book, I mean,
2498
02:07:33.920 --> 02:07:36.840
to me was it was just interesting. It's a story
2499
02:07:36.880 --> 02:07:41.119
of loss, it's a story of I mean, there's just
2500
02:07:41.119 --> 02:07:43.520
so much fascinating elements to it. But it was also
2501
02:07:43.600 --> 02:07:46.520
somebody who was fast tracked into the industry, and that
2502
02:07:46.680 --> 02:07:49.039
was another part where it was like, Wow, this guy
2503
02:07:49.479 --> 02:07:51.640
was at eighteen, you know, getting all of these these
2504
02:07:51.680 --> 02:07:54.520
opportunities and had all these the great chats. I loved
2505
02:07:54.560 --> 02:07:57.119
your stories about him in Detroit. I thought that was
2506
02:07:57.560 --> 02:08:01.479
against the chic, really really fascinating to see how people
2507
02:08:01.520 --> 02:08:04.399
tried taking advantage of him along the way, and then
2508
02:08:04.439 --> 02:08:07.920
how by the end he's this hardened kind of that
2509
02:08:08.479 --> 02:08:09.960
at such a young age. I mean, he was just
2510
02:08:10.039 --> 02:08:12.880
he was still in many respects just a kid, a
2511
02:08:12.960 --> 02:08:15.640
kid when he died. So when you looked back and
2512
02:08:15.680 --> 02:08:18.600
we're going back and seeing you referenced Tully Blanchard and
2513
02:08:18.720 --> 02:08:22.279
Jake Roberts and all these tag partners that he had,
2514
02:08:22.720 --> 02:08:25.159
what was for you the most interesting time to look
2515
02:08:25.199 --> 02:08:28.199
back on? Which of the various dynamic duos did you
2516
02:08:28.239 --> 02:08:30.039
think was the most interesting to research?
2517
02:08:31.560 --> 02:08:34.239
I really like this is. I was gonna say, I
2518
02:08:34.279 --> 02:08:39.199
like their dynamic but totally and Gino's dynamic because they
2519
02:08:39.199 --> 02:08:43.560
both have a lot in common being like a son
2520
02:08:43.680 --> 02:08:49.640
and pseudo son of a promoter and then starting out
2521
02:08:49.760 --> 02:08:52.720
as a babyface but really hitting their stride as heels
2522
02:08:54.479 --> 02:08:57.079
and not even like just heels, but like the young, cocky,
2523
02:08:57.239 --> 02:09:02.920
brash heels, and a very similar personalities at least in
2524
02:09:02.960 --> 02:09:06.880
the ring. So I really liked looking at that era.
2525
02:09:09.119 --> 02:09:14.279
I did also like for Houston, the kind of feud
2526
02:09:14.399 --> 02:09:17.239
between Gary Hart and Paul Bosh was very interesting to
2527
02:09:17.319 --> 02:09:22.079
me because I think they both had, you know, like
2528
02:09:22.119 --> 02:09:25.079
they had the best intentions for Gino, but they had
2529
02:09:25.159 --> 02:09:30.800
such wildly different approaches and also just philosophies on wrestling
2530
02:09:30.840 --> 02:09:34.439
in general. So it's very fun to like look at
2531
02:09:34.439 --> 02:09:37.399
Gary Hart's book and then go over and look at
2532
02:09:37.479 --> 02:09:40.079
Paul Bosh's book and just like compare them.
2533
02:09:41.159 --> 02:09:43.600
Did you did you get a sense in doing so though,
2534
02:09:43.680 --> 02:09:46.840
if there was one path that maybe you thought Gino
2535
02:09:46.880 --> 02:09:49.520
would have been better off following, Was there one mentor
2536
02:09:49.560 --> 02:09:51.520
that he really should have stuck with a little bit more?
2537
02:09:51.560 --> 02:09:54.039
I mean, because reading the book, it's like Paul Bosh
2538
02:09:54.079 --> 02:09:56.279
really seemed to age out a bit from being that
2539
02:09:56.439 --> 02:09:59.439
role for him and Gary Hart. You know, I love
2540
02:09:59.520 --> 02:10:02.960
Gary hart book. It's my favorite book, you know, ever
2541
02:10:03.079 --> 02:10:05.840
that I've ever read, I think of any genre. But
2542
02:10:06.399 --> 02:10:09.119
you know, it's hard when you're reading someone's tail, they're
2543
02:10:09.119 --> 02:10:12.479
gonna add their perspective into it. Here reading your tale
2544
02:10:12.640 --> 02:10:15.720
like having it coming from your perspective. You can see
2545
02:10:15.760 --> 02:10:20.560
that even in Gary Hart's ability to want to help Gino,
2546
02:10:20.960 --> 02:10:23.920
there's still this intertwinement to the business. It's still about
2547
02:10:23.920 --> 02:10:27.479
Gino working right and still making money and not necessarily
2548
02:10:27.479 --> 02:10:29.760
I didn't feel like he was using Gino, but it
2549
02:10:29.840 --> 02:10:32.119
wasn't as pure. As we tried getting Gino to rehab
2550
02:10:32.159 --> 02:10:33.680
and he didn't go You know what I mean.
2551
02:10:34.640 --> 02:10:38.760
Yeah, Yeah, it wasn't you need to get out of
2552
02:10:38.760 --> 02:10:40.840
the business altogether. It was just moved to a different
2553
02:10:40.880 --> 02:10:42.359
state and wrestle there.
2554
02:10:43.640 --> 02:10:43.960
Like that.
2555
02:10:44.119 --> 02:10:46.039
Maybe that could have been that he didn't think, you
2556
02:10:46.039 --> 02:10:47.760
know whatever, get out of wrestling, so he was trying
2557
02:10:47.800 --> 02:10:53.319
to mitigate the damage. It's probably true, yeah, but also
2558
02:10:53.359 --> 02:10:56.920
you no, I definitely think that Gary Hart was more pragmatic.
2559
02:10:57.600 --> 02:11:00.720
I think Paul boj I really I your Papa Wash
2560
02:11:00.760 --> 02:11:03.359
and his personality and obviously like he's a war hero
2561
02:11:03.479 --> 02:11:08.239
and everything like, but I think to have someone like
2562
02:11:08.319 --> 02:11:10.720
him as a mentor, it might be kind of hard
2563
02:11:10.840 --> 02:11:14.920
to live up to those expectations and to a point
2564
02:11:14.920 --> 02:11:19.760
where like what they tell you doesn't feel concrete anymore.
2565
02:11:19.680 --> 02:11:25.000
Or Gary Hart like growing up in Chicago, He's been
2566
02:11:25.039 --> 02:11:28.399
around the blog. He knows, he knows what he's dealing with,
2567
02:11:28.600 --> 02:11:32.119
right right, He could probably put himself in Gino shoes
2568
02:11:32.560 --> 02:11:40.079
a lot more, and vice versa too. Yeah, I don't know.
2569
02:11:40.359 --> 02:11:42.600
I I think Paul Bosher was very much an idealist,
2570
02:11:43.880 --> 02:11:46.760
and I don't know if that is always the most
2571
02:11:46.760 --> 02:11:47.520
helpful thing.
2572
02:11:48.279 --> 02:11:51.760
Right spoken, Like it's like a father figure right there.
2573
02:11:51.800 --> 02:11:54.319
You can be wind, you can have blind spots. You know,
2574
02:11:54.319 --> 02:11:57.319
there's another father figure that is heavily presented in the book,
2575
02:11:57.319 --> 02:11:59.640
and it's Fritz van Eric. So you know, I I
2576
02:11:59.680 --> 02:12:02.199
you know, this is not a book that is properly
2577
02:12:02.279 --> 02:12:04.560
about the von Erics, but you know, over the years
2578
02:12:04.600 --> 02:12:07.039
we've had the heroes of World Class, there's the triumphant
2579
02:12:07.079 --> 02:12:10.119
tragedy of World Class. Those documentaries to me were my
2580
02:12:10.720 --> 02:12:13.520
entryway really into learning about the von Erics, which you know,
2581
02:12:13.600 --> 02:12:17.119
I never I never knew entirely about until way into
2582
02:12:17.119 --> 02:12:19.199
my adulthood. And then you hear about it, You're like,
2583
02:12:19.199 --> 02:12:22.159
oh my gosh, all this stuff happened and like and
2584
02:12:22.199 --> 02:12:25.119
now it took about twenty years, but it's now very
2585
02:12:25.199 --> 02:12:29.000
much in the public lexicon with the Iron clall and
2586
02:12:29.399 --> 02:12:32.239
just in general, I think with the various more appearances
2587
02:12:32.319 --> 02:12:36.119
of Kevin von Eric on things like the Dark Side,
2588
02:12:36.119 --> 02:12:39.439
and there's so various different documentaries along the way. And
2589
02:12:39.920 --> 02:12:42.279
one thing I very much appreciate about kevinvan Eric is
2590
02:12:42.319 --> 02:12:45.279
his stories I think relatively are consistent. It's not like
2591
02:12:45.560 --> 02:12:47.239
some of those pro wrestlers that when you see them
2592
02:12:47.239 --> 02:12:49.560
on interviews, they just change, you know, like to whatever
2593
02:12:49.880 --> 02:12:52.840
whatever situation is in front of them, So I found
2594
02:12:52.920 --> 02:12:56.880
him to be fascinating. But why do you think that
2595
02:12:57.159 --> 02:13:00.640
their story has been you know, captured in such a
2596
02:13:00.720 --> 02:13:03.720
very public way, with Gino is often being presented as
2597
02:13:03.760 --> 02:13:07.199
a side character in the whole thing versus Gino, Why
2598
02:13:07.239 --> 02:13:10.039
do we not have a movie about Gina's life? Why
2599
02:13:10.039 --> 02:13:12.520
do we not have Gino Hernandez action figures, which I
2600
02:13:12.560 --> 02:13:15.159
would really want and I would advocate for very very much.
2601
02:13:15.199 --> 02:13:19.279
So from WWE, you know, Geno is like, especially with
2602
02:13:19.319 --> 02:13:21.720
Bruce Pritchard in Power over there, I mean, there just
2603
02:13:21.760 --> 02:13:25.239
seems to be that screaming for me, this missed opportunity
2604
02:13:25.319 --> 02:13:27.920
that quite frankly, I'm glad the book is from you again,
2605
02:13:28.039 --> 02:13:30.079
I am the Champion. It is on Amazon. I Am
2606
02:13:30.079 --> 02:13:33.600
Your Champion. But why is ww not capitalizing on this?
2607
02:13:35.640 --> 02:13:39.039
How was that quote from the WW Vault guy a
2608
02:13:39.079 --> 02:13:41.439
few weeks ago, that's like he's really surprised at how
2609
02:13:41.439 --> 02:13:44.399
well the contents doing. Like, I don't know if WWE
2610
02:13:44.520 --> 02:13:50.119
realizes how much people want to hear about wrestling's history
2611
02:13:52.479 --> 02:13:54.720
and then what they do share they tend to kind
2612
02:13:54.720 --> 02:13:59.000
of warp in their own favor, So that could be
2613
02:13:59.520 --> 02:14:03.840
a big part of it. Also, just like Gino never
2614
02:14:03.880 --> 02:14:06.880
really wrestled for WWE. Then you also have to add
2615
02:14:06.920 --> 02:14:11.439
the context of like right where he was, and yeah.
2616
02:14:10.960 --> 02:14:13.479
Well there are Bruiser Brodie figures out there, and there's
2617
02:14:13.560 --> 02:14:15.880
just you know, I just to me, it's just such
2618
02:14:15.920 --> 02:14:18.960
a missed opportunity. I would I just think people given
2619
02:14:19.359 --> 02:14:23.000
given the uh you know, the I think it's maybe
2620
02:14:23.119 --> 02:14:26.239
a cult classic view of a character. But I mean
2621
02:14:26.279 --> 02:14:29.840
I would think it would sell well well into the
2622
02:14:30.039 --> 02:14:33.079
uh significant numbers. So I don't know, that's my that
2623
02:14:33.199 --> 02:14:35.239
is my pitch for w W. I would love to
2624
02:14:35.279 --> 02:14:37.560
have a Gino Hernandez. I think there's a Gino Hernandez
2625
02:14:37.640 --> 02:14:40.159
shirt that the Dark Side team had put out, which
2626
02:14:40.199 --> 02:14:43.680
is exciting and and and so I'm happy for his
2627
02:14:43.760 --> 02:14:46.239
family that they got that moment. You know, I will
2628
02:14:46.279 --> 02:14:49.439
say this about to go back. I do think in
2629
02:14:49.479 --> 02:14:56.319
the reintroduction of Geno to to pro wrestling vernacular, it's
2630
02:14:56.399 --> 02:14:59.479
understandable that so much of his family's effort would be
2631
02:14:59.479 --> 02:15:01.279
and want to clean enough the reputation. I mean, you
2632
02:15:01.319 --> 02:15:05.119
have this this guy who died young, who had by
2633
02:15:05.159 --> 02:15:07.479
all all intense purposes, he was he had the spark
2634
02:15:07.560 --> 02:15:09.840
that every parent would think would go on and get
2635
02:15:09.840 --> 02:15:12.600
them to the highest of highs in life and instead
2636
02:15:12.680 --> 02:15:15.119
knowing how history ended and have it shrouded by so
2637
02:15:15.279 --> 02:15:18.319
many things involving sex, drugs, rock and roll, the whole
2638
02:15:18.319 --> 02:15:21.840
thing of the eighties certainly certainly worth a lot of
2639
02:15:21.880 --> 02:15:22.399
cleaning up.
2640
02:15:24.239 --> 02:15:27.079
Hey everyone, Greg Parks here. You've probably heard me hosting
2641
02:15:27.119 --> 02:15:29.359
Wrestling Night in America after pay per Views and also
2642
02:15:29.399 --> 02:15:32.079
co hosting the Tuesday Flagship with Wade Keller. I also
2643
02:15:32.159 --> 02:15:35.039
host a VIP exclusive podcast every week called Greg Parks
2644
02:15:35.039 --> 02:15:37.680
Out Loud. In this podcast, I delve into a single
2645
02:15:37.680 --> 02:15:39.840
topic for around twenty minutes, perfect length for one of
2646
02:15:39.880 --> 02:15:42.600
your daily commutes or while walking the dog. A couple
2647
02:15:42.680 --> 02:15:44.960
of my recent episodes included a look at TNA as
2648
02:15:44.960 --> 02:15:48.119
they moved to AMC and WWE, and AW injuries for
2649
02:15:48.119 --> 02:15:50.720
the year twenty twenty five. You can listen to VIP
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02:15:50.840 --> 02:15:54.880
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02:16:03.960 --> 02:16:06.720
Full details on VIP membership at pw torch dot com
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02:16:06.720 --> 02:16:10.319
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2656
02:16:10.359 --> 02:16:12.880
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2657
02:16:12.920 --> 02:16:15.880
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02:16:16.000 --> 02:16:19.239
In addition to all the commercial free VIP podcasts check
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02:16:19.279 --> 02:16:19.560
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02:16:19.600 --> 02:16:20.319
We'd love for you to.
2661
02:16:20.359 --> 02:16:22.960
Join our community and unlock access to all our VP
2662
02:16:23.079 --> 02:16:23.920
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2663
02:16:25.680 --> 02:16:27.239
Let me ask you this, did you get us since
2664
02:16:27.239 --> 02:16:28.159
Gino was a good guy?
2665
02:16:29.119 --> 02:16:35.200
I think so everyone who has seen Geno out of
2666
02:16:35.959 --> 02:16:39.600
k fabe says, I think one of the most interesting
2667
02:16:40.239 --> 02:16:46.000
words is from Jake Roberts, who said, oh, Gino was harmless, okay,
2668
02:16:47.440 --> 02:16:49.360
but also I think of George and Politana who said
2669
02:16:49.360 --> 02:16:54.000
he's a sweetheart and as you hear out, and also
2670
02:16:54.040 --> 02:16:59.879
Peter Burkholtz, who is Paul's nephew, went into detail by
2671
02:17:00.360 --> 02:17:07.760
Gino was very like devoted to like helping the business,
2672
02:17:07.799 --> 02:17:09.520
Like I think I told I put a story in
2673
02:17:09.559 --> 02:17:13.520
there about how he worked one of peterberg holts It's
2674
02:17:14.120 --> 02:17:16.360
spot shows with a fever.
2675
02:17:16.760 --> 02:17:22.399
And like, yeah, went what you said, literally yes.
2676
02:17:23.600 --> 02:17:25.319
But yeah he told him like I don't want to
2677
02:17:25.360 --> 02:17:28.159
hurt your town and like just very like he's very
2678
02:17:28.200 --> 02:17:34.399
selfless under the mask of being the most selfish guy
2679
02:17:34.479 --> 02:17:34.879
in the world.
2680
02:17:36.959 --> 02:17:39.399
Yeah, well, you know, I asked that in particular because
2681
02:17:39.399 --> 02:17:41.360
I was so struck by a quote that I never
2682
02:17:41.440 --> 02:17:44.239
knew existed until I read your book, was which was
2683
02:17:44.319 --> 02:17:47.639
the cold reaction by the van Erics in interviews when
2684
02:17:47.639 --> 02:17:50.360
he died. That was stunning to me. And maybe I
2685
02:17:50.360 --> 02:17:52.399
don't have I don't have the quote memorized on the
2686
02:17:52.399 --> 02:17:53.840
top of my head, but I think it was either
2687
02:17:53.920 --> 02:17:56.360
Kevin or carry that said it. Where did you Where
2688
02:17:56.360 --> 02:17:57.600
did that come from?
2689
02:17:58.239 --> 02:18:02.399
That was from a that was like a local news station.
2690
02:18:03.239 --> 02:18:04.920
Oh my gosh. One of the writers I talked to
2691
02:18:05.879 --> 02:18:09.399
with this is Lance Peterson, and he was from Dallas
2692
02:18:09.440 --> 02:18:14.799
and was very helpful in giving me some local context. However,
2693
02:18:14.920 --> 02:18:16.879
I sent him that like footage and I was like,
2694
02:18:16.920 --> 02:18:19.719
do you know the show? And he like immediately gave
2695
02:18:19.760 --> 02:18:21.120
me the name of the show, and it.
2696
02:18:21.040 --> 02:18:27.479
Was like, wow, well yeah, back back in I hear you.
2697
02:18:30.479 --> 02:18:33.760
Oh yeah, so he recognized. I think it was just
2698
02:18:33.799 --> 02:18:37.440
like local programming in Dallas and like interviewing because the
2699
02:18:37.479 --> 02:18:42.399
father Arcs were like local celebrities at that point. Yes, yes, yeah,
2700
02:18:43.079 --> 02:18:44.079
but yeah that was Kevin.
2701
02:18:44.600 --> 02:18:46.479
What but what do you what do you attribute the
2702
02:18:46.520 --> 02:18:49.000
attitude to. Was it that they didn't want to draw
2703
02:18:49.040 --> 02:18:51.879
attention to the drugs in w C c W to
2704
02:18:52.000 --> 02:18:54.959
their own, you know, relationship with drugs. The fact that
2705
02:18:55.000 --> 02:18:57.639
they treated his death like it was part of a storyline,
2706
02:18:57.719 --> 02:19:02.559
especially involving uh Chris Adams, was just it's mind boggling
2707
02:19:02.639 --> 02:19:02.840
to me.
2708
02:19:04.120 --> 02:19:07.200
No, that was Gary Hart was very like resentful of that,
2709
02:19:07.479 --> 02:19:12.280
and it's very cold. That was one of the things
2710
02:19:12.280 --> 02:19:14.280
that struck me when I was in like the very
2711
02:19:14.280 --> 02:19:18.479
early early stages of learning that, you know, because I
2712
02:19:18.559 --> 02:19:22.280
feel like today, if a heel passes away unexpectedly, there's
2713
02:19:22.319 --> 02:19:27.239
no like everyone drops k FAE immediately, like because.
2714
02:19:27.000 --> 02:19:29.879
Of he was a heel by the time of his
2715
02:19:29.959 --> 02:19:32.040
death and he's been sainted since then.
2716
02:19:34.799 --> 02:19:38.280
Yeah, So that was just very odd that, like there's
2717
02:19:38.959 --> 02:19:42.520
the urge to keep k Fabe. Also, I think the
2718
02:19:42.600 --> 02:19:46.600
drugs and the allegations surrounded did want like did make
2719
02:19:46.600 --> 02:19:52.200
the von Erics want to distance themselves. Yeah. I think
2720
02:19:52.520 --> 02:19:54.959
the von Erics reminds me of the Kennedy family.
2721
02:19:56.559 --> 02:19:58.600
Yeah, I get that very much.
2722
02:19:59.200 --> 02:20:01.760
Yeah, like one of for all of the tragedies, but
2723
02:20:01.799 --> 02:20:05.559
also for the like they tried very much to maintain
2724
02:20:05.639 --> 02:20:11.360
an image even as things were falling apart around them. Yeah,
2725
02:20:11.440 --> 02:20:15.079
Like it's very much like the they're they're building their
2726
02:20:15.120 --> 02:20:19.719
own camelot in Dallas, and they don't want anything to
2727
02:20:19.799 --> 02:20:23.200
let the fans know that that this isn't as perfect
2728
02:20:23.239 --> 02:20:27.600
as they think, right, Yes, I think Dono's death was
2729
02:20:27.639 --> 02:20:32.200
a big threat almost to that image, because it's like, well,
2730
02:20:32.840 --> 02:20:35.920
this guy who worked with them was on drugs and overdosed,
2731
02:20:35.920 --> 02:20:38.760
and like, what are they up to? And by that
2732
02:20:38.840 --> 02:20:44.959
point you already had some arrests for d Y I sound,
2733
02:20:44.959 --> 02:20:49.840
but like the so the Dallas Police Department also did
2734
02:20:49.879 --> 02:20:55.559
security for the They were friends with Frits already and
2735
02:20:55.600 --> 02:21:01.760
getting paychecks from him, so the lot of those arrests
2736
02:21:01.760 --> 02:21:03.159
were kind of brush under the rug.
2737
02:21:04.000 --> 02:21:07.559
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, it was a different world. It definitely
2738
02:21:07.639 --> 02:21:11.319
definitely was a different world that we will thankfully not
2739
02:21:11.479 --> 02:21:13.719
know and not get to experience. Although it sounds fun,
2740
02:21:13.799 --> 02:21:16.680
I guess in retrospect and would probably make good for
2741
02:21:16.920 --> 02:21:20.760
movies and books as we as we now know, you know, Yeah,
2742
02:21:20.760 --> 02:21:24.159
but it's it's just a Again, there's just so many
2743
02:21:24.239 --> 02:21:27.120
mind boggling facts that that came pouring out in this
2744
02:21:27.159 --> 02:21:31.079
whole of the every iteration of the WCCW story that
2745
02:21:31.120 --> 02:21:33.799
you're like, I cannot believe that this has gone on.
2746
02:21:33.840 --> 02:21:37.200
I mean, there's so much that is, you know, unbelievable
2747
02:21:37.319 --> 02:21:39.760
about the whole thing. You know what's unbelievable. Though, before
2748
02:21:39.760 --> 02:21:42.159
we get to Gino's death, I want to talk about this,
2749
02:21:42.159 --> 02:21:45.639
this random, random fact that over the past seven years
2750
02:21:45.639 --> 02:21:49.840
has come out. Gino's stepfather was Jimmy Snooka. I mean,
2751
02:21:50.280 --> 02:21:52.719
where did that come? But but I will say this, Lizzie,
2752
02:21:52.719 --> 02:21:56.479
when we talk about Gino's mom, is is of a
2753
02:21:56.600 --> 02:21:59.879
very advanced age, I'm sure at this point, and she's probably,
2754
02:21:59.879 --> 02:22:03.079
no doubt lived a very interesting life. I do think
2755
02:22:03.120 --> 02:22:07.719
things like that are why people probably are curious about
2756
02:22:07.760 --> 02:22:10.600
certain aspects of the story, because and first of all,
2757
02:22:10.719 --> 02:22:16.280
Jimmy Snooka is by all means a colorful character, as
2758
02:22:16.280 --> 02:22:19.239
we now know in the death of Nancy Argentino. But also,
2759
02:22:19.520 --> 02:22:22.360
like you know, that story seemed to be hidden and masked,
2760
02:22:22.399 --> 02:22:26.799
and the timelines every time I've seen it covered, timelines
2761
02:22:26.840 --> 02:22:30.319
seem to not always be in sync. So I think
2762
02:22:30.319 --> 02:22:33.440
that doesn't help the cause of people wondering if of
2763
02:22:33.479 --> 02:22:36.760
the legitimacy of the story. But that's beside the point.
2764
02:22:37.319 --> 02:22:39.959
What do we know about the relationship of him and Jimmy,
2765
02:22:40.040 --> 02:22:43.280
because wouldn't this technically put him in the bloodline as
2766
02:22:43.399 --> 02:22:47.159
part of the polities. I mean, I'm serious. I message
2767
02:22:47.200 --> 02:22:49.680
Wade Keller that I said, Oh my god, I've completely
2768
02:22:49.719 --> 02:22:52.559
forgot about this. He is the step son of Jimmy
2769
02:22:52.559 --> 02:22:55.879
Snooka and Tamina Snooka is seen as being part of this.
2770
02:22:56.600 --> 02:22:59.159
Is he technically part of the bloodline and we didn't
2771
02:22:59.159 --> 02:22:59.559
write back.
2772
02:23:00.959 --> 02:23:06.799
He could have been a Samisaying figure for them. That's
2773
02:23:06.799 --> 02:23:08.559
so funny. I'm gonna be thinking about that, bro. I
2774
02:23:08.639 --> 02:23:14.239
never even pieced that together. Yeah, that story was weird.
2775
02:23:14.319 --> 02:23:17.600
I was looking for marriage certificates and stuff and I
2776
02:23:17.639 --> 02:23:21.680
couldn't find anything, and then I saw Jimmy Snooker was
2777
02:23:21.719 --> 02:23:22.799
married to someone else.
2778
02:23:23.399 --> 02:23:26.399
Yeah, something's not right here, Lizzie. That's why you're not
2779
02:23:26.479 --> 02:23:29.879
finding something. That's That's what I'm driving at. There's just
2780
02:23:29.879 --> 02:23:31.200
something really really.
2781
02:23:31.000 --> 02:23:31.719
Not right here.
2782
02:23:31.799 --> 02:23:34.120
And uh, you know, you want you want to will
2783
02:23:34.200 --> 02:23:37.159
everything to be to be, you know, on the up
2784
02:23:37.159 --> 02:23:39.200
and up. I think, as I said, there's a very
2785
02:23:39.239 --> 02:23:42.719
real and probably a fair desire for the family to
2786
02:23:42.760 --> 02:23:44.799
clean up some of the history. But when you start
2787
02:23:44.799 --> 02:23:46.440
hearing some of this stuff, you're like, this seems a
2788
02:23:46.440 --> 02:23:49.840
little something. Something ain't the math ain't math in here,
2789
02:23:49.879 --> 02:23:52.280
which I guess here's another thing that the math hate
2790
02:23:52.319 --> 02:23:55.440
mathon on Pharah Fawcett. Did he date Farah Fawcet?
2791
02:23:57.440 --> 02:24:02.600
He at least went on dates. When you look at
2792
02:24:02.639 --> 02:24:05.200
the Farah Fawcett side of the story, it was she
2793
02:24:05.719 --> 02:24:10.440
loved to cheat on her husband, apparently with young Was.
2794
02:24:10.399 --> 02:24:12.520
It Lee Majors? Was she married to Lee Majors?
2795
02:24:13.159 --> 02:24:17.440
I don't remember. I think it was another actor, but yeah, yeah,
2796
02:24:17.479 --> 02:24:19.719
it was just stories of like all the young athletes
2797
02:24:19.760 --> 02:24:22.559
from Houston and parapost and I was like, Gino got
2798
02:24:22.600 --> 02:24:24.360
in there for him?
2799
02:24:25.200 --> 02:24:28.520
Yeah yeah, I mean did they really go out though?
2800
02:24:28.520 --> 02:24:30.079
Do you think or was it he a fan in
2801
02:24:30.159 --> 02:24:31.120
line got a picture.
2802
02:24:31.799 --> 02:24:34.440
I think they did go out, Okay, that was it
2803
02:24:34.479 --> 02:24:38.000
was his mom. I think totally, like there's another wrestler
2804
02:24:38.000 --> 02:24:39.479
that I was like, no, they went on there?
2805
02:24:39.840 --> 02:24:42.959
Wow, that is I would have thought for sure that
2806
02:24:42.959 --> 02:24:47.200
that was a you know, just a thing. You know,
2807
02:24:47.479 --> 02:24:49.479
he went to an autograph signing and got a picture
2808
02:24:49.520 --> 02:24:52.559
and suddenly boom they were dating. I think that's hilarious.
2809
02:24:53.079 --> 02:24:55.040
It's so funny. Yeah, because then he does that interview
2810
02:24:55.120 --> 02:24:57.399
in Georgia with Roddy Piper where he brings out a
2811
02:24:57.399 --> 02:24:59.520
binder of pictures of him in Parahpos.
2812
02:25:00.040 --> 02:25:00.159
Right.
2813
02:25:02.120 --> 02:25:04.879
Yeah, that's definitely something that wrestlers. What do you though,
2814
02:25:04.959 --> 02:25:06.520
like go to a meet and greet and be like we.
2815
02:25:06.719 --> 02:25:10.639
Dat it right right right, totally absolutely, that's like standard
2816
02:25:10.639 --> 02:25:13.879
wrestling one o one. Yeah, Now let's make the transition.
2817
02:25:13.959 --> 02:25:16.399
I want to do it. I want to talk about it, Lizzie.
2818
02:25:16.440 --> 02:25:18.319
I can't see you before we do this. Is that
2819
02:25:18.360 --> 02:25:20.120
you can use your camera on or off.
2820
02:25:20.799 --> 02:25:21.600
I think it's on.
2821
02:25:22.040 --> 02:25:25.040
I can see you, Okay, I can see me too,
2822
02:25:25.079 --> 02:25:27.840
But that's way. That's fine. We'll lean into the audio
2823
02:25:27.879 --> 02:25:31.840
for this. Then the death of Gino Hernandez, which is
2824
02:25:31.879 --> 02:25:35.079
the gateway for many people finding out about Gino Hernandez. Again,
2825
02:25:35.159 --> 02:25:39.040
you can't there's things that you simply just cannot avoid.
2826
02:25:39.120 --> 02:25:41.360
I think the story now has been told, you know,
2827
02:25:41.479 --> 02:25:46.200
very effectively, although there's certainly aspects of it that you
2828
02:25:46.239 --> 02:25:49.079
can chalk up to the decompisation of the body that
2829
02:25:49.159 --> 02:25:52.360
lead for things very confusing about you know, had the
2830
02:25:52.360 --> 02:25:54.520
coroner's report or I believe that it was that with
2831
02:25:54.520 --> 02:25:57.680
the death certificate, one of the two where there's just
2832
02:25:57.760 --> 02:26:00.159
facts that are do not match what we know, and
2833
02:26:00.159 --> 02:26:04.159
and Gino's family knew about himself. How talk to me
2834
02:26:04.159 --> 02:26:06.399
about how you navigated those waters. I mean, I don't
2835
02:26:06.959 --> 02:26:09.959
I believe, like you said, it's really up for either
2836
02:26:10.040 --> 02:26:12.840
believing the family or letting people come up to their
2837
02:26:12.879 --> 02:26:15.520
own interpretation. It's not for you to determine how Gino
2838
02:26:15.559 --> 02:26:17.760
Hernandez died. None of us will ever be able to
2839
02:26:17.799 --> 02:26:21.680
do that. But what was that journey like for you
2840
02:26:21.760 --> 02:26:26.120
to go back and and you know, learn about that process,
2841
02:26:26.200 --> 02:26:29.399
because it is indeed a jarring wrestling death, many in
2842
02:26:29.440 --> 02:26:31.879
many ways, the most jarring wrestling death to read about.
2843
02:26:32.600 --> 02:26:37.639
Yeah. I remember when I showed the manuscript to another
2844
02:26:38.959 --> 02:26:44.680
Texas wrestling historian, Greg Klein, he said, like, it takes
2845
02:26:44.799 --> 02:26:47.399
a sudden pivot into like true crime territory.
2846
02:26:47.959 --> 02:26:48.200
Yeah.
2847
02:26:49.000 --> 02:26:51.479
But yeah, because I also I wrote the book in
2848
02:26:51.520 --> 02:26:54.479
pretty much chronological order, so I had all of Gino's
2849
02:26:54.520 --> 02:26:58.079
life done in research and facts and everything, and then
2850
02:26:58.120 --> 02:27:02.239
I'm like, okay, the you're just sticking the landing part.
2851
02:27:02.440 --> 02:27:05.520
And it was very odd because it didn't feel like
2852
02:27:05.559 --> 02:27:11.520
the detective work. But I was looking at a lot
2853
02:27:11.559 --> 02:27:17.799
of newspapers and newsreel footage about Dino, but also just
2854
02:27:17.840 --> 02:27:23.120
like more of the cultural cultural but also like broader
2855
02:27:23.200 --> 02:27:25.879
context of what was going on in Texas at the time,
2856
02:27:27.000 --> 02:27:30.040
because you, unfortunately did have a lot of overdose deaths
2857
02:27:30.079 --> 02:27:35.799
going on. Sure, so I think that kind of contributed
2858
02:27:35.840 --> 02:27:41.799
to maybe a lax of baysical attitude by a coroner's office.
2859
02:27:43.600 --> 02:27:46.680
Maybe they're dealing with like dozens of overdose deaths that
2860
02:27:46.760 --> 02:27:50.000
week and then they're like, oh, well, we don't know,
2861
02:27:50.319 --> 02:27:51.840
and then they rush through it. But in the family
2862
02:27:52.440 --> 02:27:55.719
who has obviously very different feelings towards do you know
2863
02:27:56.360 --> 02:27:57.719
is going to pick those apart?
2864
02:27:59.159 --> 02:28:01.360
Oh, you're still right that. I mean, you think about it.
2865
02:28:01.360 --> 02:28:03.280
He might have been one last headache on the streets
2866
02:28:03.319 --> 02:28:06.360
of Houston to a lot of people done to the
2867
02:28:06.360 --> 02:28:09.520
families that he's their boying, you know, he's their song,
2868
02:28:09.879 --> 02:28:12.159
And there's that that weird kind of dichotomy. I mean,
2869
02:28:12.479 --> 02:28:15.440
it's a it's really interesting because you know, it's one
2870
02:28:15.440 --> 02:28:17.319
of those things when you look back at, as I
2871
02:28:17.360 --> 02:28:22.079
said here as a world class triumphant tragedy. People stoked
2872
02:28:22.239 --> 02:28:24.680
the rumors enough that they wanted it. I feel like
2873
02:28:24.959 --> 02:28:27.319
it was almost like, in a weird way, a gift
2874
02:28:27.440 --> 02:28:29.559
to Gino. I don't know if that makes any sense,
2875
02:28:29.600 --> 02:28:31.479
but it was a way of keeping his memory alive
2876
02:28:31.639 --> 02:28:35.040
and keeping it keeping him the fascinating figure for people
2877
02:28:35.040 --> 02:28:37.040
to look into and everything. And then I think there
2878
02:28:37.079 --> 02:28:39.879
was a port part where it went too far into that, like,
2879
02:28:40.000 --> 02:28:43.200
as you said, that true crime realm, where like there
2880
02:28:43.200 --> 02:28:45.399
seems to be an intent in the most recent years
2881
02:28:45.399 --> 02:28:47.520
to really dial that back for the sake of the family.
2882
02:28:47.559 --> 02:28:51.920
And that's fair, right, That's totally totally fair. And I
2883
02:28:51.920 --> 02:28:54.799
think the story is out there about how there's cocaine
2884
02:28:54.799 --> 02:28:57.239
and his intestines and how does that happen and all
2885
02:28:57.319 --> 02:29:00.479
of that kind of stuff. It's fascinating. There's no if
2886
02:29:00.520 --> 02:29:02.879
sens or butts about it. I think you provide the
2887
02:29:02.920 --> 02:29:05.959
most plausible out for me to think to close the
2888
02:29:06.000 --> 02:29:08.479
door of doubt in my brain when you detail if
2889
02:29:08.520 --> 02:29:10.959
he brought this someone home with him, why the house
2890
02:29:11.040 --> 02:29:12.559
And again, people can read the book to get into
2891
02:29:12.559 --> 02:29:15.719
the specifics why certain house traits would look the way
2892
02:29:15.760 --> 02:29:18.840
that it does. That that was helpful to me to
2893
02:29:18.920 --> 02:29:21.680
kind of wrap my head around. Okay, maybe the seeds
2894
02:29:21.680 --> 02:29:27.600
of doubt are there that that can be removed. But
2895
02:29:27.719 --> 02:29:31.680
either way, it's interesting to have such a individual person
2896
02:29:31.840 --> 02:29:35.879
have so many mysteries surrounding them. I mean, as I
2897
02:29:35.920 --> 02:29:38.959
think you said, like we know a lot about Gino Hernanez,
2898
02:29:38.959 --> 02:29:41.120
we don't know much at all about his personal life
2899
02:29:41.200 --> 02:29:44.760
and Charles Wolf as it existed. And the fact that
2900
02:29:44.799 --> 02:29:47.399
you were the big reveal to me of his tombstone
2901
02:29:47.399 --> 02:29:49.399
at the end. Again, read the book to find out
2902
02:29:49.440 --> 02:29:53.079
what that says is like, what is real and what
2903
02:29:53.239 --> 02:29:53.479
is not?
2904
02:29:54.520 --> 02:29:58.639
You know what I mean that that's interesting. I didn't
2905
02:29:58.639 --> 02:30:03.239
make the onion comparison, but I was thinking that, Yeah,
2906
02:30:03.479 --> 02:30:06.520
an onion with so many layers.
2907
02:30:05.879 --> 02:30:08.799
So many layers, it goes from birth to death. Seriously,
2908
02:30:09.319 --> 02:30:12.920
histories that are surrounding him. Who do you see in
2909
02:30:13.000 --> 02:30:17.159
wrestling today? To kind of wind this down a bit,
2910
02:30:17.520 --> 02:30:20.000
that do you see traces of Gino Hernandez and anybody?
2911
02:30:20.000 --> 02:30:22.399
As you were looking into this, you're obviously a big
2912
02:30:22.440 --> 02:30:26.200
wrestling fan. I'm a w WE guy. I'm really not
2913
02:30:26.360 --> 02:30:28.559
as familiar with some of the other brands, but happy
2914
02:30:28.639 --> 02:30:31.040
if you know, if you see it in there. Where
2915
02:30:31.040 --> 02:30:32.639
do you see Gino Hernandez today?
2916
02:30:33.520 --> 02:30:35.879
I said, the big name is actually someone who read
2917
02:30:35.920 --> 02:30:38.239
the book. I said in a coffee MJF.
2918
02:30:38.920 --> 02:30:42.920
Get out of here. Yeah, you know what with the
2919
02:30:42.959 --> 02:30:45.360
Burber I from what I know of him, which is
2920
02:30:45.399 --> 02:30:48.920
again limited, I admittedly wow. And did he did he
2921
02:30:49.000 --> 02:30:50.520
read the book or did he just say it?
2922
02:30:51.879 --> 02:30:55.239
Because I knew he was a w c W fan, Yeah,
2923
02:30:55.280 --> 02:30:58.079
I figured he would enjoy it. I sent him and
2924
02:30:58.920 --> 02:31:04.319
a few other wrestlers copies and yeah, and then we
2925
02:31:04.600 --> 02:31:08.440
would talk about Geno sometimes. And then I sound insane
2926
02:31:08.479 --> 02:31:10.040
when I say this, but I know it was a
2927
02:31:10.040 --> 02:31:14.840
little show that when won the belt for the second time,
2928
02:31:14.840 --> 02:31:17.639
because he's in his third ring now, he cut a
2929
02:31:17.639 --> 02:31:20.200
promo and he said, show me some respect. I am
2930
02:31:20.239 --> 02:31:22.479
your champion. And it's like a direct quote.
2931
02:31:22.239 --> 02:31:23.680
The direct Yeah.
2932
02:31:23.719 --> 02:31:26.120
Absolutely, yeah. Of course. If I say that on Twitter,
2933
02:31:26.159 --> 02:31:28.200
people are like, why do you think everything's about you?
2934
02:31:28.239 --> 02:31:36.440
But like, no, wait, yes, yeah, oh wow.
2935
02:31:36.639 --> 02:31:41.879
I could totally see that. I could totally see that, absolutely, And.
2936
02:31:41.840 --> 02:31:44.079
Because he he messaged me before and said like, I
2937
02:31:44.079 --> 02:31:46.159
am your champion, and I was like, you are And
2938
02:31:46.159 --> 02:31:47.879
then I watched and I was.
2939
02:31:47.799 --> 02:31:52.000
Like, oh wait, unbelievable. That is that awesome. See for
2940
02:31:52.159 --> 02:31:54.120
if it's funny. I was gonna say, I don't. I
2941
02:31:54.159 --> 02:31:56.559
don't know that there's anybody in w W. I mean
2942
02:31:56.600 --> 02:31:58.639
you have to think a lot of the Shawn Michaels,
2943
02:31:58.760 --> 02:32:01.920
you know, boy boy stuff, was you know, ripped off.
2944
02:32:02.040 --> 02:32:03.719
I mean, Sean is a Texas guy. I mean he
2945
02:32:03.760 --> 02:32:07.399
would have seen Gino Ornandez and been familiar with him,
2946
02:32:07.440 --> 02:32:09.840
So that would have been a very early, very very
2947
02:32:09.840 --> 02:32:13.959
early rip off, if you would. But yeah, in terms
2948
02:32:13.959 --> 02:32:17.959
of younger talent, I mean, Ricky, Ricky Saints has a
2949
02:32:17.959 --> 02:32:22.639
lot of you know that seemed I'm new to Ricky admittedly,
2950
02:32:22.719 --> 02:32:25.520
but you know, as I was again literally reading your
2951
02:32:25.520 --> 02:32:28.200
book last night during the commercial breaks of RAW, I
2952
02:32:28.280 --> 02:32:30.520
was thinking that, I was like, oh my god, because
2953
02:32:30.520 --> 02:32:32.760
I knew I had a rush, rush, rush to get
2954
02:32:32.760 --> 02:32:36.319
through to today. So his influence is clearly present.
2955
02:32:36.360 --> 02:32:36.520
Now.
2956
02:32:36.639 --> 02:32:40.760
Was he the the only good looking, cocky guy. No,
2957
02:32:41.079 --> 02:32:43.319
but he did it. He did it in many ways.
2958
02:32:43.360 --> 02:32:46.200
I think. First to the degree that you know, we
2959
02:32:46.239 --> 02:32:49.520
know he tried out the gorgeous George type stuff and everything,
2960
02:32:49.680 --> 02:32:51.799
but he really kind of did craft his own. He
2961
02:32:52.040 --> 02:32:55.360
was I'm gonna be you know, you know, Flipping says
2962
02:32:55.360 --> 02:32:57.079
he was the hot guy he was. He was the
2963
02:32:57.120 --> 02:32:59.120
guy you wouldn't want to go to the bar because
2964
02:32:59.120 --> 02:33:01.239
you to be afraid this guy would take your girlfriends.
2965
02:33:01.799 --> 02:33:04.680
At that point in wrestling, you didn't have that much
2966
02:33:04.680 --> 02:33:07.079
of that that was new. That wasn't like the big
2967
02:33:07.120 --> 02:33:09.399
burly guys who were thirties but they looked like they
2968
02:33:09.399 --> 02:33:11.360
were sixties. Like we know, most wrestlers could be.
2969
02:33:11.760 --> 02:33:15.280
Yeah, you know that last segment you're just listening to
2970
02:33:15.479 --> 02:33:17.360
and the next one that you're waiting to listen to,
2971
02:33:17.479 --> 02:33:20.159
those can be one second apart. With a VIP membership,
2972
02:33:20.159 --> 02:33:22.719
you can unlock our commercial free versions of our shows.
2973
02:33:22.760 --> 02:33:25.799
Pw torch dot com slash go vip tells you how
2974
02:33:25.840 --> 02:33:28.559
to do it. That's pw torch dot com slash Go
2975
02:33:28.719 --> 02:33:32.680
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2976
02:33:32.680 --> 02:33:34.959
Apple account through Patreon, which, by the way, you can
2977
02:33:34.959 --> 02:33:37.680
sync up with Spotify or just about any iOS or
2978
02:33:37.719 --> 02:33:41.120
Android app. With a full VIP membership, you can customize
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02:33:41.120 --> 02:33:44.479
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2980
02:33:44.680 --> 02:33:47.559
Go to pw torch dot com slash go vip for
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02:33:47.600 --> 02:33:50.280
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2982
02:33:50.600 --> 02:33:54.719
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2983
02:33:54.879 --> 02:33:56.120
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2984
02:33:58.360 --> 02:33:58.719
All right.
2985
02:33:58.760 --> 02:34:03.239
So a couple other uh just things to to to
2986
02:34:03.360 --> 02:34:08.680
wrap us up is the Stella May and Nicola Robbers thing.
2987
02:34:08.719 --> 02:34:10.479
I never heard of any of that, so I knew.
2988
02:34:10.479 --> 02:34:12.799
I mean I knew there was baby doll at that
2989
02:34:13.079 --> 02:34:15.959
as that name, and even Andrea the Lady Giant, Like
2990
02:34:15.959 --> 02:34:19.239
I knew those things existed. I never heard of Stella May.
2991
02:34:19.319 --> 02:34:22.239
How what was what was reading about those those gals?
2992
02:34:22.360 --> 02:34:22.799
Like for you?
2993
02:34:23.280 --> 02:34:28.399
It's really funny. So like this is the the thing
2994
02:34:28.520 --> 02:34:33.920
about watching w CCW with only your dad and not
2995
02:34:34.000 --> 02:34:39.079
having any internet influence. I was watching the Selame storyline.
2996
02:34:39.159 --> 02:34:43.440
I was like, this rocks. But then you find out
2997
02:34:43.479 --> 02:34:45.600
that people didn't like it, or the people today don't
2998
02:34:45.639 --> 02:34:49.639
like it. That people in this oratorium love Stella May.
2999
02:34:50.200 --> 02:34:51.280
That right, Okay?
3000
02:34:51.360 --> 02:34:55.479
Yeah, if you watch like they sold Sunshine eight by tens,
3001
02:34:56.559 --> 02:34:58.399
people would chant for her to come out like she
3002
02:34:58.600 --> 02:35:02.600
was really over. Yeah, yeah, people are really invested in
3003
02:35:02.600 --> 02:35:06.040
that storyline. I think it says a lot about Gino
3004
02:35:06.200 --> 02:35:09.239
and his like generosity as a performer that he was like, yeah,
3005
02:35:09.239 --> 02:35:12.399
ill a few with the elderly truck driver lady.
3006
02:35:13.719 --> 02:35:15.959
Smart because he was just like when you think of
3007
02:35:16.040 --> 02:35:19.000
Chris Jericho going up against China and ww A that
3008
02:35:19.079 --> 02:35:21.280
there was reluctance there, but ultimately when you embraced it
3009
02:35:21.639 --> 02:35:24.600
good business. That's so funny. So wait, let me ask,
3010
02:35:24.639 --> 02:35:26.239
how did you go back? And maybe I missed this
3011
02:35:26.280 --> 02:35:27.760
when you said it earlier because I was dealing with
3012
02:35:27.799 --> 02:35:32.479
a angry mini goldendoodle. What what avenue did you watch
3013
02:35:32.600 --> 02:35:35.079
w c W w CCW. Was it on YouTube? Was
3014
02:35:35.079 --> 02:35:37.159
it on the WW network or I guess it would
3015
02:35:37.159 --> 02:35:39.799
have been peacock. What how did you watch.
3016
02:35:40.440 --> 02:35:44.239
A little bit of everything? Okay, because there was they
3017
02:35:44.280 --> 02:35:47.040
recently took it off peacock. I don't know if there's
3018
02:35:47.200 --> 02:35:48.920
a legal way to watch.
3019
02:35:49.840 --> 02:35:50.959
It's very upsetting.
3020
02:35:51.120 --> 02:35:54.159
Yeah, I mean luckily there is a lot of episodes
3021
02:35:54.280 --> 02:35:57.959
posted to YouTube. There are also there are two shows
3022
02:35:58.079 --> 02:36:01.159
that w CCW aired, and only one of them was
3023
02:36:01.200 --> 02:36:04.639
ever on the WW network, and that was the one
3024
02:36:04.639 --> 02:36:08.920
that aired from this oratorium. And there's also Championship Sports
3025
02:36:09.319 --> 02:36:13.799
which aired from the the Terran County Convention Center usually
3026
02:36:14.639 --> 02:36:16.559
and G know had a lot of feuds and stuff
3027
02:36:16.559 --> 02:36:18.959
on there too. That was where they had their TV champion,
3028
02:36:20.159 --> 02:36:26.559
which was like usually Kevin. But yeah, so w W
3029
02:36:26.879 --> 02:36:29.319
never really aired that anywhere, so you could only find
3030
02:36:29.319 --> 02:36:32.879
that through people who recorded it on VHS times and
3031
02:36:32.920 --> 02:36:37.360
then posted those. Yeah, a lot of it is just
3032
02:36:37.440 --> 02:36:42.000
like more or less underground preservation efforts.
3033
02:36:43.280 --> 02:36:45.319
That's that you put a lot of effort into it.
3034
02:36:45.360 --> 02:36:47.719
I will say, when I get to an episode where
3035
02:36:47.719 --> 02:36:50.079
it's like there's no there was no follow up to
3036
02:36:50.159 --> 02:36:53.440
the next show, I switched switched overs, So well, now
3037
02:36:53.479 --> 02:36:56.079
I'm confused. Then we can so the fact that you
3038
02:36:56.120 --> 02:36:58.040
put a lot more effort in than I did to
3039
02:36:58.120 --> 02:37:01.799
understanding that world. Good on you. The uh you know,
3040
02:37:01.920 --> 02:37:03.959
it's interesting as you were saying that and thinking about
3041
02:37:04.040 --> 02:37:09.120
w w WW picks and chooses about which wrestlers with
3042
02:37:09.600 --> 02:37:12.200
troubled legacies they want to embrace, in which they don't.
3043
02:37:12.239 --> 02:37:15.639
We know a very recently one discuss that's not you know,
3044
02:37:15.760 --> 02:37:19.639
very heavily embraced as China, and so I wonder if
3045
02:37:19.680 --> 02:37:22.479
Gino kind of falls in that category. But we need you.
3046
02:37:22.520 --> 02:37:24.440
Here's why I need Lizzy. I need you to get
3047
02:37:24.479 --> 02:37:26.920
into with all those people that you gave the book to.
3048
02:37:26.959 --> 02:37:29.280
First of all, I hope you're pitching this book to
3049
02:37:29.719 --> 02:37:31.799
movie studios and stuff like that. I mean I very
3050
02:37:31.879 --> 02:37:34.399
very much do. I think you you did an exceptional
3051
02:37:34.479 --> 02:37:36.760
job with this, but I want you to get me
3052
02:37:36.840 --> 02:37:39.239
the wrestler, like I want the action figure of Gino
3053
02:37:39.280 --> 02:37:41.559
Rannan if nothing else, so then I can complain it
3054
02:37:41.559 --> 02:37:42.840
doesn't look like him, you know, as.
3055
02:37:42.760 --> 02:37:44.760
Ever, I do you know what? Complain about that too.
3056
02:37:44.799 --> 02:37:47.000
You can take life like Actions're going to be like,
3057
02:37:47.000 --> 02:37:50.360
oh this is terrible, right right, right, right right, So
3058
02:37:51.000 --> 02:37:53.559
say something like he is so handsome no action figure
3059
02:37:53.559 --> 02:37:54.520
could ever replicate.
3060
02:37:54.920 --> 02:37:58.159
Oh my god, that's exactly what you have fully embodied him,
3061
02:37:58.159 --> 02:38:01.239
Lizzy planning. All right, So here, I'm gonna wrap up
3062
02:38:01.319 --> 02:38:03.360
rapid fires and oft be that rapid. You can give
3063
02:38:03.399 --> 02:38:07.600
explanations if you like. What was Gino's greatest feud?
3064
02:38:07.879 --> 02:38:12.120
Oh I really like his feud with totally Plantered. And
3065
02:38:12.159 --> 02:38:13.879
this is an odd one to say because he's the
3066
02:38:13.920 --> 02:38:17.200
baby face in it, but I just love it so
3067
02:38:17.319 --> 02:38:19.799
much because we see that baby face side of Geno
3068
02:38:19.879 --> 02:38:24.959
that we literally never see again, right right, yeah, you see,
3069
02:38:24.959 --> 02:38:27.879
he's a really convincing baby face, Like he cuts the
3070
02:38:28.040 --> 02:38:31.239
like I have the people with me like promos and
3071
02:38:31.280 --> 02:38:33.280
he's so charming, and then he does the photo shoots
3072
02:38:33.360 --> 02:38:36.399
or he's still flexing, but he's like he's like a
3073
02:38:36.399 --> 02:38:39.159
good guy, like more almost more of Avon Eric. I
3074
02:38:39.200 --> 02:38:40.680
shouldn't say that he would.
3075
02:38:40.440 --> 02:38:45.559
Hate yes, mm hmm. Okay, who is his greatest tag
3076
02:38:45.600 --> 02:38:48.239
team partner? And we talked about you talked about who
3077
02:38:48.319 --> 02:38:52.120
is your favorite, but who is his greatest?
3078
02:38:53.399 --> 02:38:59.120
Hm hmm. I like, I I say totally again, is that.
3079
02:38:59.559 --> 02:39:03.920
It makes its better enemies great.
3080
02:39:03.760 --> 02:39:07.239
Greatest tagging partner mm hmm. Can I think they complimenting
3081
02:39:07.360 --> 02:39:08.280
each other really well?
3082
02:39:10.360 --> 02:39:10.559
Yeah?
3083
02:39:10.600 --> 02:39:13.200
I just I love their matches in Southwest so much.
3084
02:39:14.799 --> 02:39:17.600
I think him and Chris are obviously one of the
3085
02:39:17.639 --> 02:39:21.959
best tag teams of the eighties and probably a much
3086
02:39:22.040 --> 02:39:25.479
broader spectrum than that. But I just love him and
3087
02:39:25.559 --> 02:39:28.479
Gino No, totally because I seem like they're having so
3088
02:39:28.600 --> 02:39:29.000
much fun.
3089
02:39:30.520 --> 02:39:30.760
Yeah.
3090
02:39:30.920 --> 02:39:33.360
I asked Wade Keller, who hit about I was telling
3091
02:39:33.479 --> 02:39:34.479
him that I was going to talk to you, and
3092
02:39:34.520 --> 02:39:36.479
then we did this on a raw post show recently,
3093
02:39:36.959 --> 02:39:41.440
and he said that watching him and Chris Adams live
3094
02:39:41.639 --> 02:39:43.920
was one of his favorite times in wrestling, which but
3095
02:39:44.159 --> 02:39:46.319
I like you. I mean, from what I know of it,
3096
02:39:46.479 --> 02:39:50.399
I think it's just watching him and Tully and thinking
3097
02:39:50.520 --> 02:39:54.120
of them I mean, don't they fit like the perfect
3098
02:39:54.360 --> 02:39:57.639
frat boy kind of tag team. I mean it's like
3099
02:39:57.719 --> 02:40:00.399
you couldn't script you literally couldn't cast it better.
3100
02:40:00.920 --> 02:40:01.159
Okay.
3101
02:40:01.440 --> 02:40:03.920
Who was Gino's greatest manager?
3102
02:40:04.879 --> 02:40:10.799
Mmm? I think you have to say very hard Okay, yeah,
3103
02:40:11.200 --> 02:40:13.520
for his work behind the scenes too, because he was
3104
02:40:13.600 --> 02:40:15.159
managing Gino in a lot of ways.
3105
02:40:15.559 --> 02:40:17.760
Yeah yeah, literally, I mean I do think there is
3106
02:40:17.840 --> 02:40:20.959
something the contrast between him and who we know now
3107
02:40:21.079 --> 02:40:25.280
is baby Doll that usually I think really worked I do.
3108
02:40:27.159 --> 02:40:27.360
Well.
3109
02:40:27.799 --> 02:40:31.200
For whatever reason, Lizzie has jumped off. I'm gonna give
3110
02:40:31.200 --> 02:40:32.920
her a moment to see if she pops back on
3111
02:40:33.079 --> 02:40:37.600
and we're back. Okay, okay, so we did the greatest
3112
02:40:37.600 --> 02:40:40.280
match a bit. What do you think was his greatest match?
3113
02:40:41.000 --> 02:40:46.159
Oh? So two were coming to mind. One is I
3114
02:40:46.200 --> 02:40:48.840
think what everyone would say, which is the hair versus
3115
02:40:48.879 --> 02:40:52.159
the hair match. But I'm also just thinking of that
3116
02:40:52.559 --> 02:40:56.840
match because MJF recently did a hair match. Yeah, and
3117
02:40:57.000 --> 02:40:59.159
it was so funny. I have people tagging me and
3118
02:40:59.200 --> 02:41:04.159
saying like he's doing a Gino Yeah yeah. But I
3119
02:41:04.280 --> 02:41:06.639
also besides that, because I think what made that great
3120
02:41:06.760 --> 02:41:10.879
was not so much the match with the moment, because
3121
02:41:10.920 --> 02:41:13.120
the match is kind of like they've they've had better
3122
02:41:13.239 --> 02:41:19.760
tag matches. Yeah, yeah, but just the whole like ceremony
3123
02:41:19.840 --> 02:41:21.799
around it and the fun like it was such a
3124
02:41:21.879 --> 02:41:24.040
funny like event.
3125
02:41:28.719 --> 02:41:32.440
Well, we're cutting out again with Lizzy, but yeah, there's
3126
02:41:32.479 --> 02:41:36.000
no doubt that the the hair versus Hair match was
3127
02:41:36.920 --> 02:41:42.040
obviously obviously a total classic. Yeah, so we cut out
3128
02:41:42.040 --> 02:41:44.239
a little there, Lizzie. But had we had the hair
3129
02:41:44.319 --> 02:41:46.079
versus hair, did you say the second match that you
3130
02:41:46.120 --> 02:41:46.600
were thinking of?
3131
02:41:47.239 --> 02:41:50.920
No, I was it's him versus Harley Race in nineteen eighty.
3132
02:41:50.719 --> 02:41:53.799
And oh, I've never seen it's really good.
3133
02:41:55.520 --> 02:41:58.680
It's Paul Bosh. When he airs it on Houston Wrestling,
3134
02:41:58.719 --> 02:42:01.280
he gives a little precursor that says like, you're gonna
3135
02:42:01.280 --> 02:42:03.520
see a different side of Gino that I don't think
3136
02:42:03.559 --> 02:42:06.159
you've seen before. And it's because he leans into that
3137
02:42:06.319 --> 02:42:10.680
young baby face energy and he immediately like drops it
3138
02:42:10.840 --> 02:42:14.440
because the people are still booing him. But you see
3139
02:42:14.520 --> 02:42:14.920
him try.
3140
02:42:15.479 --> 02:42:17.520
Yeah, you know, it's so interesting to me. So when
3141
02:42:17.559 --> 02:42:19.360
you were saying to me that people are ready on Twitter,
3142
02:42:19.600 --> 02:42:24.719
have you become like the de facto Gino legacy holder
3143
02:42:24.799 --> 02:42:25.360
at this point?
3144
02:42:25.879 --> 02:42:30.479
I think definitely from my generation, because I guess gen
3145
02:42:30.600 --> 02:42:35.159
Z is not really involved in the eighties wrestling spacesh
3146
02:42:37.479 --> 02:42:41.879
but no, it is fun that someone also taged this
3147
02:42:42.079 --> 02:42:44.120
was a while ago, but they had a question about
3148
02:42:44.159 --> 02:42:47.440
a Texas Stadium card and they're like, I only want
3149
02:42:47.479 --> 02:42:49.920
to hear from Dave Meltzer and Lizzie Flannagan.
3150
02:42:50.239 --> 02:42:53.120
Wow, what a compliment.
3151
02:42:54.079 --> 02:42:56.360
I know. It's like, that's really funny that, like, that's
3152
02:42:57.040 --> 02:42:57.840
like my niche.
3153
02:42:57.920 --> 02:43:02.639
Now, that's so great. Yeah, that is so so great. Okay,
3154
02:43:02.719 --> 02:43:04.520
keeping us on track, what do you think was his
3155
02:43:04.639 --> 02:43:05.879
best promo you ever saw?
3156
02:43:06.639 --> 02:43:06.840
Oh?
3157
02:43:09.120 --> 02:43:12.280
I like the tarmac one where you know he's got
3158
02:43:12.360 --> 02:43:14.680
he's got to shoot on the plane in the background.
3159
02:43:14.879 --> 02:43:15.280
That's me.
3160
02:43:15.639 --> 02:43:17.159
That's like when I think of Gina, that's who I
3161
02:43:17.200 --> 02:43:17.479
think of.
3162
02:43:17.879 --> 02:43:20.479
Oh yeah, yeah, when he's interviewing, we're not interviewing, but
3163
02:43:20.520 --> 02:43:24.159
he's getting interviewed by Mark Laurance. I also really love
3164
02:43:24.280 --> 02:43:26.840
his promos in g c W when he's talking with
3165
02:43:26.959 --> 02:43:33.200
Roddy Piper. They play off each other so well that yeah,
3166
02:43:33.200 --> 02:43:35.440
I mean, obviously, yeah, if it's a good promo and
3167
02:43:35.520 --> 02:43:40.360
Roddy Piper's they were like, obviously that's good. Yeah, their
3168
02:43:40.520 --> 02:43:44.719
energy together it's like they're so like like hyping each
3169
02:43:44.719 --> 02:43:46.079
other up, and it's so funny.
3170
02:43:46.159 --> 02:43:46.399
We guesse.
3171
02:43:46.440 --> 02:43:48.360
Gordon Soli is also there and he's so annoyed.
3172
02:43:50.360 --> 02:43:52.680
All right, and the last one, what was your favorite
3173
02:43:52.760 --> 02:43:57.719
of Gino's catchphrases. I mean one that I call the
3174
02:43:57.840 --> 02:44:01.120
book there it is that was was it was, it
3175
02:44:01.280 --> 02:44:03.479
was I was lobbited to you.
3176
02:44:04.000 --> 02:44:04.200
Yep.
3177
02:44:06.239 --> 02:44:07.559
I mean you had some good ones too. It's also
3178
02:44:07.639 --> 02:44:10.040
hard to say, besides I Am Your Champion, which ones
3179
02:44:10.239 --> 02:44:13.600
were original? Because he did this too sweet hour two
3180
02:44:13.799 --> 02:44:16.719
and Billy Graham was doing that. I think I am
3181
02:44:16.799 --> 02:44:21.360
Your Champion is such a unique Geno saying, even though
3182
02:44:21.479 --> 02:44:22.360
m JF is kind of.
3183
02:44:24.600 --> 02:44:25.559
Yeah, I like it.
3184
02:44:25.600 --> 02:44:27.920
One what you see, uh, what you see is what
3185
02:44:28.040 --> 02:44:29.479
you get. What you don't see is better.
3186
02:44:29.639 --> 02:44:30.920
Yet, Yes, I love that.
3187
02:44:31.719 --> 02:44:34.120
I actually took a photo of that page when I
3188
02:44:34.719 --> 02:44:37.879
oh my gosh, my memory for specifics isn't great when
3189
02:44:37.920 --> 02:44:40.079
I read stuff, but that one, I said, I got
3190
02:44:40.200 --> 02:44:42.239
to remember that one. I got to remember that. Can
3191
02:44:42.280 --> 02:44:43.879
ask you a question, have you met or talked to
3192
02:44:43.920 --> 02:44:44.639
any of his family?
3193
02:44:45.760 --> 02:44:51.559
I very like had some messages with his mother, but
3194
02:44:52.840 --> 02:44:54.879
we weren't able to talk too much. And I'm kind
3195
02:44:54.920 --> 02:44:59.639
of yeah, yeah, I did. I talked mostly to friends
3196
02:44:59.680 --> 02:45:00.680
in the business.
3197
02:45:01.600 --> 02:45:03.559
Well, I asked that because I think you've done a
3198
02:45:03.600 --> 02:45:06.639
great job for their son, for their father, for their
3199
02:45:06.719 --> 02:45:09.719
ex husband, for you know, any cousins that are out there.
3200
02:45:10.000 --> 02:45:12.239
I'm so grateful for you doing this book. It's the
3201
02:45:12.239 --> 02:45:14.760
book I always wanted to read, one that was dedicated
3202
02:45:14.799 --> 02:45:18.520
to him and had the other players as the peripheral
3203
02:45:18.639 --> 02:45:21.399
members of the story, rather than him being just this
3204
02:45:21.520 --> 02:45:25.159
floating mystery man. It is indeed a fascinating story. What
3205
02:45:25.319 --> 02:45:27.799
is true, what is not? Does it really matter? Probably
3206
02:45:27.879 --> 02:45:30.760
not it I think actually it adds to his charm,
3207
02:45:30.879 --> 02:45:33.760
it adds to the mystique, and it adds to the
3208
02:45:33.840 --> 02:45:37.879
memory of Fernandez. And for someone who lived a short life,
3209
02:45:37.959 --> 02:45:40.920
I mean, it's amazing. I keep saying, forty years later,
3210
02:45:41.079 --> 02:45:44.280
here we are. He didn't even get to experience the
3211
02:45:44.360 --> 02:45:47.239
heights of Michael Jackson and Madonna and all these other
3212
02:45:47.479 --> 02:45:49.639
people that came in the late eighties. I mean, that's
3213
02:45:49.680 --> 02:45:54.440
how far gone he has been. Yet if you teleported
3214
02:45:54.520 --> 02:45:57.760
him into wrestling today, as you could see in aw,
3215
02:45:57.959 --> 02:46:00.239
he would fit in. And that's a lot of the
3216
02:46:00.319 --> 02:46:03.719
timelessness of him. So any last words that you would
3217
02:46:03.799 --> 02:46:06.399
like to to provide about the book? How can people
3218
02:46:06.479 --> 02:46:08.399
find it? And you know, how can they find you.
3219
02:46:10.559 --> 02:46:17.360
I'm most active on Twitter unfortunately, but also I'm on
3220
02:46:17.479 --> 02:46:20.399
Instagram too. I post more personal stuff like I posted
3221
02:46:20.520 --> 02:46:22.040
like me and my boyfriend went to a Phillies game
3222
02:46:22.120 --> 02:46:24.799
for our anniversary, So that's why I posted my Instagram.
3223
02:46:25.680 --> 02:46:28.760
It's at Lousey Flanagan twenty seven on Instagram with just
3224
02:46:28.799 --> 02:46:31.799
Losey flan again on Twitter. I also write for p
3225
02:46:32.000 --> 02:46:35.920
w I the blog. Sometimes I just yeah, I know,
3226
02:46:36.040 --> 02:46:39.159
I love I love working with them. We just put
3227
02:46:39.239 --> 02:46:42.280
up an interview I did with Anthony Bowens for Pride.
3228
02:46:42.879 --> 02:46:44.399
Yes yes, yes yeah.
3229
02:46:46.399 --> 02:46:50.040
And the book is available on Barnes and Noble and
3230
02:46:50.319 --> 02:46:54.760
from McFarlane published McFarland Books, the publisher directly, and on Amazon.
3231
02:46:57.120 --> 02:47:00.479
Yeah awesome, Thank you for having me. Also thank you
3232
02:47:00.520 --> 02:47:03.239
to everyone who read it. I'm I'm like kind of
3233
02:47:03.239 --> 02:47:06.159
blown away, like Bronche and Nobles sold out of the
3234
02:47:06.200 --> 02:47:08.280
paperback puppies for a little bit here.
3235
02:47:08.680 --> 02:47:09.120
Yeah, I know.
3236
02:47:09.319 --> 02:47:11.680
I was like, oh my gosh, Regina, like it's.
3237
02:47:11.559 --> 02:47:14.399
So what a gift, what a love letter? What a
3238
02:47:14.479 --> 02:47:16.520
love letter to him? Let me ask you this, so
3239
02:47:16.639 --> 02:47:19.399
now pipping from Gino just real quick. I can't let
3240
02:47:19.399 --> 02:47:23.000
you go without asking this. You're Philly, Philly lady over here,
3241
02:47:23.079 --> 02:47:26.520
Philly woman. What what big Philadelphia wrestling events have you
3242
02:47:26.639 --> 02:47:26.840
been to?
3243
02:47:28.159 --> 02:47:28.200
So?
3244
02:47:28.399 --> 02:47:31.600
Actually, the first live show I've ever went to was
3245
02:47:31.680 --> 02:47:36.120
a Ring of Honor show in eighteen or twenty nineteen.
3246
02:47:36.120 --> 02:47:39.120
I didn't start going to wrestling shows until late okay,
3247
02:47:39.680 --> 02:47:41.440
because the rest of thing that I started watching on
3248
02:47:41.559 --> 02:47:45.520
my own was New Japan. So yeah, oh to those shows.
3249
02:47:45.760 --> 02:47:48.399
But did you go to any of the New Japan
3250
02:47:48.479 --> 02:47:51.159
shows at the twenty three hundred? Yes, I think I've
3251
02:47:51.159 --> 02:47:52.399
been in the same room as you before.
3252
02:47:52.639 --> 02:47:52.840
Nice.
3253
02:47:53.120 --> 02:47:57.360
Yeah, we saw it was Jay White and Osprey and
3254
02:47:58.040 --> 02:48:00.360
allowed the like big names before they jumped in AW
3255
02:48:00.520 --> 02:48:02.239
and also some of the AW names for there too.
3256
02:48:02.840 --> 02:48:03.040
Yeah.
3257
02:48:04.239 --> 02:48:04.680
Yeah, I.
3258
02:48:06.159 --> 02:48:12.399
Saw a show with Fred Rosster was in a street fight. Yeah, lawlor,
3259
02:48:12.479 --> 02:48:15.760
I want to say, or I don't know, I don't,
3260
02:48:16.040 --> 02:48:16.399
I don't know.
3261
02:48:16.440 --> 02:48:18.600
I was just enjoying the ride. It was a free
3262
02:48:18.680 --> 02:48:20.520
ticket for me, and I enjoyed it. Did you go
3263
02:48:20.559 --> 02:48:23.879
to Wrestlingia forty No, I don't have that kind of money,
3264
02:48:24.920 --> 02:48:26.440
but you may get it at the end.
3265
02:48:26.440 --> 02:48:26.959
Of this book.
3266
02:48:27.040 --> 02:48:30.399
So you know, but I always say this, I don't
3267
02:48:30.440 --> 02:48:33.200
like going to the wrestling shows anymore. Rather, don't threaten
3268
02:48:33.280 --> 02:48:35.319
me with the ability to stay home, order Chinese food
3269
02:48:35.319 --> 02:48:37.319
and have my bathroom and my drinks, you know, just
3270
02:48:37.639 --> 02:48:38.280
ten feet away.
3271
02:48:38.959 --> 02:48:41.200
No, you literally like, I love twenty three hundred shows
3272
02:48:41.680 --> 02:48:43.280
because one I can go with my dad and hear
3273
02:48:43.360 --> 02:48:46.799
him talk about the nineties, which is always right. And
3274
02:48:46.920 --> 02:48:49.559
also just like there's you can only see what's happening,
3275
02:48:50.600 --> 02:48:53.639
even like the Lea Korus Center where AW runs Dynamite
3276
02:48:54.000 --> 02:48:56.799
and like Dynasty. I was like, those are good seats too,
3277
02:48:57.000 --> 02:49:00.959
But like I went to one back down taping at
3278
02:49:00.959 --> 02:49:03.200
the Wells Fargo Center and I was just like I
3279
02:49:03.280 --> 02:49:04.079
can barely see.
3280
02:49:04.799 --> 02:49:07.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah, never again, never again for that. So
3281
02:49:08.360 --> 02:49:10.239
all right, Lizzie, Well, thank you again for your time.
3282
02:49:10.319 --> 02:49:10.920
What a pleasure.
3283
02:49:11.079 --> 02:49:14.959
Congratulations on the book and wishing you all the success
3284
02:49:15.079 --> 02:49:17.760
as you continue to sell it and promote it and
3285
02:49:18.360 --> 02:49:21.000
let people experience the world that you have opened up.
3286
02:49:21.200 --> 02:49:22.920
Is I am your champion. The Life and Death of
3287
02:49:23.040 --> 02:49:28.520
Gino Hernandez. I think such a wonderful, wonderful companion piece. Ideally,
3288
02:49:28.719 --> 02:49:31.280
and the amount of effort you put into it so
3289
02:49:31.520 --> 02:49:34.799
worthy of Gino, and Gino is so worthy of your work.
3290
02:49:35.200 --> 02:49:37.600
So thank you so much for being here, Thank you
3291
02:49:37.600 --> 02:49:39.559
for everyone who's listening. Well back next week with a
3292
02:49:39.639 --> 02:49:42.200
further look at the week in WWE. This has been
3293
02:49:42.200 --> 02:49:44.479
the Nicky's Club with special guests Lizzie Planninggain. Thank you
3294
02:49:44.559 --> 02:49:44.879
so much.
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Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our
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of archives and access our ad free website with VP
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You can participate in the Wadkeller Pro Wrestling podcast by
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emailing your question or topic to Weadkeller Podcast at gmail
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It's next level coverage that you come to expect from
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unfounded rumors, no clickbait, no deceptive headlines, just high quality writing,
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breaking news and fascinating flashbacks every day at PW torch
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dot com. Pull yourself away from the vacuous social media
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experience that I know many of you regret once you
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get lost in it for minutes, if not hours at
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a time, and settle in for high quality PW Torch
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branded wrestling coverage. Admit it, you love Nick Barbatty when
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he co hosts with me on the Wadekeller Post shows.
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Well now you can listen to him every week on
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The Nicky's Club, a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to
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tell you more.
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Hey wrestling fans, It's Nick Barbatty and I'm back with
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the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's
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comes together for big laughs and Shark takes on WWE
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for WrestleMania rumors.
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To surprise returns.
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I got you covered.
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The Nicky's Club where the wrestling feels like the coolest
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club in town.
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Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling
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life every week, so why not let him go vip
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You can also stream directly from our ad free VIP website,
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The Nikki's Club waiting for you every week at PW
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Torch vip. Did you know that you can enjoy commercial
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podcast flagship, our flashbacks, and also the pw Torch daily
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cast lineup again all commercial free and nice streamline listening experience.
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But with third tier membership you can also unlock all
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the VIP podcasts, including Everything with Rich and Wade, to
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with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem. Either way works.
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Go to Patreon and start your seven day free trial.
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If you're listening to us on the Apple podcast app,
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Just look for a place to rate the show on Spotify,
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and please click that five star rating. And of course,
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thank you so much for listening. A PW Torch VIP
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membership doesn't just give you add free access to these
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the week, but you also gain access to our unmatched
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coverage through our progressing Torch weekly newsletters dating back to
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to hundreds of retro radio shows from the nineteen nineties,
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including some of my interviews with wrestling's top newsmakers in
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the nineties, and also our podcast library dating back to
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the year two thousand and three. There's no larger, longer
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spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that that comes with
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a PW Torch VIP membership. Now we're approaching twenty years
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of podcasting, Go vip and dive into our post pay
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per view roundtables are covered with some of your favorite
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format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. Pw torch
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or two minutes. From right now, you can be a
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VIP member and diving into our library. Pw torch dot com,
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slash go VIP