AEW DYNAMITE POST-SHOW (10/29): Keller & White react to Hangman dressing up as Schiavone, is Statlander actually an alien?

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Now PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wade Keller
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Pro Wrestling Post Shoe.
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It's time to talk.
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This week's a e W Dynamite all right, Joshua, I
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guess the big news coming out of tonight's show is
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Simo Joe getting a rematch against Hangman Page at full gear,
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outlasting Bobby Lashley. It was like two or three singles
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wins this year Hook, whose biggest win was against Max
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Cast in July, and two or three singles wins this
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year on two on TV, and like two dark matches Ricochet,
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who I think has a losing record and is mostly
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in tag team matches. Simo Joe lost to hang Man
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beat him up, gets rewarded with a you know, so
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called one and four chance to get a world to
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I don't get it. I think Joe lost. He should
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move to the back of the line unless there's a
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good explanation. Hook has no business anywhere in among the
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four people most you know, I mean, it just cheapens
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the world title and makes Tony kNN look like he's
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just drawing names out of a hat or doing things randomly,
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and I mean booking wise. He did it because he,
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you know, wanted to tell a story with these wrestlers
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in the ring, but that you have to have a
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position for this being the four way. I wrote about
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this and talked about it in a way. Keller Audio
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News Bulletin earlier this week for VIP members. I think
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it's kind of ridiculous, but it's not, you know, I
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mean we're kind of used to it. I mean there
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has been a real history, Joshua with things making sense
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in terms of rankings and who gets title shots. But
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I'm still going to advocate for some sort of explanation
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how these for got in this match.
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I mean, that's fair.
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You can't really make a case for any of the four,
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but they do have what I wouldn't even want to
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call this an out. This is actually a major Other
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problem is that, like who is another viable challenger? Really,
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it's a complete lack of challengers. Although I wasn't sure
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where they booked this match at all. They kind of
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tipped their hat that Joe would be get another shot
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at Hangman when he attacked him at the last pay
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per view, and then Hangman addressed Joe directly on Collision
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of all places, like that was the obvious match, so
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this match was unnecessary. All they had to do was
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say that, hey, Hangman wants another shot at Joe for
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what he did, and he's put the title on the
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line to get it. I mean, it's pretty simple. This
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was an unnecessary match and a promotion that books only
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unnecessary match, it seems like.
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Yes. I mean when we look at who would be
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better contenders, I mean there are some key injuries, so
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you know it's not it's not a long list, but
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I mean, if this were a sport, you would say
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maybe Ocada and and Darby deserve shots. Darby just beat
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MOXIEX World champ, the other two old secondary titles. I mean, like,
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I know that's not how it books. Oh, but they're
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occupied with other things. Well write from a booking standpoint,
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it's inconvenient, but from a cannon storyline, let's make sense.
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It's the thing standpoint you should go. Yeah, the people
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who are actually winning matches and holding secondary titles, they
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opted out of it. I don't know it. They're the
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easy way out, is what you said. And I'll just
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said this, don't Simojo should said, should have said, I
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want to rematch, and you know had some excuse for
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why he lost, you know, Drew McIntire special, and then
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the and then Tony Khan sends word no through Tony
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Seawani or whatever. You don't get it. You lost, and
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then Hangman comes out and goes I want to defend
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against him. I respect him. He's making excuses. He thinks
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I can't beat him twice. I don't want to. I
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don't want to have Joe jump ahead of anybody else
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in line. Anybody who thinks they're jumping the head in
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line will defend against you at another time. But let's
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get him the ring. I mean, that's that's all. I'm
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not asking for perfection. I just want some sense that
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Tony Khan sees how like ridiculous on the surface, it
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is how championship contenders are determined and understand what I
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think is true. That it makes sort of a mockery
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out of the whole process. It makes Tony Khanna's leadership
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seem kind of weird, to put it nicely, And it
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makes the world title itself cheaper. And as I wrote
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and talked about on my VA Peo bullet earlier this week,
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the world titles are one thing that can't get hurt,
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doesn't get too old, doesn't ask for more money, doesn't
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jump to WWE, doesn't get injured like you should protect that,
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and this cheapens it. And if the counter argument is, well,
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fans don't think that way anymore because they don't think
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it's real. It's like, well, then you know, why are there?
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Why do people spend so much money on special effects
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for movies when they know it's not real? I mean,
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you just why do we have good actors instead of
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bad actors? Because it feels more real when people are
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good at their jobs if they're acting. Why do we
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use hike? I mean whatever I could go on, you
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get the point. So yeah, I mean I knew coming
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in I was gonna be frustrated that unless they provided
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an explanation. And I want to give a little sidebar
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before a throaty Joshua, I think saying Bobby Lashley's unefeated
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this year, you know, like and he's never had a
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world title match, that's fine, undefeated, I think I think
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I calculated like he's won two or three matches this year,
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singles matches, but you know it's true he's undefeated. So
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I don't know, I mean, they could have done more.
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It's it, I don't know. I mean, it's the price
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you pay too when you have so many pay per
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views and you don't adjust your booking to kind of
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have all these undercurrents of things going on that makes
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makes where you're going to make more sense.
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Gosh, what your thoughts, right, And like they had the
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match with Joe, which seems like a placeholder, because even
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that wasn't an exciting match the first time.
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You would have hoped that during.
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That time they would have been building up another viable contender
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in the background on the other card, doing something leaning
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towards the future, but they weren't.
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They were just playing on a Joe Heal turn.
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And you can try to give them credit, but even
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like they tried to explain that Hook has a ninety
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percent win rate, but recently he hasn't done anything and
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he's only ever lost in big matches. And then I mean,
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and like you said, Joe just lost a big match,
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and lastly.
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I think, what an important match and forever. Yeah, so
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I don't know what they were thinking this is. I
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think that.
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Honestly, you know exactly how Tony got Here's like, oh,
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these four guys, this would be a good main event match,
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and I can use that to say this will be
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the number one contender because that's the match I want
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to do. Yeah, it's kind of just like lazy booking.
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I mean, you could have just had a Battle Royale and.
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Through everybody in there. That's the other way to do it,
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that is I rolling.
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Yeah, it's unfortunate. I mean so, I mean point made.
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It's out of my system. It is what it is.
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Adam Kidd in the check goes, well, Tony CON's a
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bad at his job, Wade. I mean yeah, So let's
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let's just shift to the other aspect of this that
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has people buzzing in the chat right now, which is
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the sort of you know what, I crossed my mind
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to the Scooby Doo who is it under the mask
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gimmick and like multiple levels. This was, I mean, it
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was sort of amateur hour. Let's just say, you know,
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it's the execution of it, because it looked like adri
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I run through with no cameras or people watching, Like
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Joe's standing around going okay, what are we waiting for now?
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They were awkward side people were late coming out, the
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mascot mascots or characters were late coming out. It looked
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like a no King's rally. And then you had Joe's
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sort of going to be safe, let's attack all these
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guys and they're like six people in outfits and costumes.
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He unmasked the guy who last time was Hangman and
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then he goes good case case close. The cleverness was
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and there's this callback to Bischoff at the Billion Chuck wedding.
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If you weren't paying close attention, you had Hangman for
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people who didn't see dressed as Chavanni, who was dressed
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up for Halloween. So there's some it looked like him,
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but he had a mask on and he was mouthing
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words that Tony Shavanni pre recorded and hanging in knew
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what he said, like we have to believe that, or
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Shavanni was I didn't. I don't know where Sewanni was
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at that point. It was precorded or he was saying
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it and he was in koots with Hangman to be
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hiding so Joe won't see him. So Shavani's in on
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the in on the con unless maybe I'm missing something
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and I'm open to that. Just try to work this
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out live here. And so then so Hangman is standing
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in the ring acting like he's this Tony Shavanni, no harm,
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no fear. Joe's all confident. Now he's drinking beers out
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of so called beer bottles or suspicious that it's poisoned.
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I don't know it's aw someone could be trying to
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kill him. And then Hangman reveals himself sort of as
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as not because he you know, goes into his normal
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voice and he attacks Shabana and Hobbes. Joe awkwardly doesn't
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turn around for several seconds during this time and just
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looks sort of bewildered and confused. I mean, they're like
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when I'm out of President Trump, not quite sure where
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to go at a ceremony and have to be steered places,
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Like Joe just looks like I hear noises, but I'm
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not quite sure where I should look, you know, Like,
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I mean, it feels like that needed about six or
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twelve more run throughs and better timing, and then also
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maybe someone in the room going is it all worth it?
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I know it's the Halloween themed episode. Could they have
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simplified it wasn't worth the effort even if it was
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smooth and it wasn't. Joshua, there's my recap.
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What do you think? Yeah?
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I think that is an accurate recap, And I think
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if you look at it on paper, like it's not
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even a bad idea. It is remotely clever. It's a
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kind of a callback to again. They had Hangman addressed
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as the state puff Marshmallow a couple of years back,
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and I like that Joe wasn't a dumb idiot and
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just felt for the same thing, agatting he expected it happen.
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I think all that is good in theory, but it's
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exactly like you said, it looked like this was their
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first try at it, all the timing issues, and that
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it just dragged on forever and you knew something was coming.
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And even though I was surprised when Hangman turned out
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to be chaffon he or vice versa, like, at that
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point it had been dragged on so much, it was
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basically just like where his Hangman at?
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What's he doing?
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Because Yeah, like you said, the timing really ruined it.
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Like I said, I would have. I think I could
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have enjoyed it if it was done really well and smoothly,
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and it would have been a decent show closing angle,
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better than an obvious finished main event match that we
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otherwise had. Again, there was enough laws that makes it
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more of a negative than a positive. Even though in
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the menaceine like I still enjoyed watching it, it was
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a long drawn out segment.
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That could have been one hundred times better.
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I'm not a purist. I'm okay if you want to
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do something kind of holiday themed, but I do believe
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if you're going to do it, make sure you can
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do it well, and make sure you don't make have
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a requirement shouldn't be Joe has to look confused in
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a way that isn't natural, But it is necessary for that,
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for this, for the cadence and the execution of this
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pre planned angle, like you really got to make it
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seem smooth and and it it just wasn't. I didn't
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even mention Joshua there. Why are we having a contract
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signing right after imagin EN's that's never happened? And why
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why is Hangman not at the contract signing? When has
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that ever happened?
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Right?
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And why would four random people and costumes be coming
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out for a contract signing that also never happened?
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Yeah, yeah, it was.
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Like I said, it was ill conceived and poorly executed.
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But I still think it could have been good. It
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just wasn't.
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It is I think there someone should come up with
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a term like half fast. Has anyone ever called something
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like this that?
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Yeah?
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I mean this was it was. It was amateur hour.
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It was half fast, it was overly clever without the
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ability to pull it off. I mean sometimes we see
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like high spots in a match where there's this overly
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complex sequence and you're like, it just wasn't worth it
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because everyone's watching, going, oh, you have to stand there
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and wait for this. It's like, and I know it
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doesn't buggle as many people, doesn't bug people the way
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it does me because I think people are used to
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it or they just sort of bake it in. But
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I don't like people waiting outside the ring with their
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hands in the air looking at someone diving at them,
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and then we're supposed to act like that's the worst
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thing that could happen to them is getting landed on
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by flying wrestler when all they had to do was
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what Joe does whilch is step out of the way
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because they stood there and waited for it. I think
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that should be that should disqualify most dives from being
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part of matches, and that they should time them out.
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And I've seen people there's one spot where Moxley was
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in my head a couple months ago. That's in my
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head where he timed it perfectly, where he knew when
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the spot was about to happen and he was stumbling
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around and then right at the last second he turned
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around and got hit, but he didn't even look at
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until the last second. He looked surprised. I want that
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attention to detail. I'm sorry, I just I think, I think,
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and I mean I'm not perfect about like proofreading every
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article perfectly, but I don't have the budget of the
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TV deal that Tony Kah has to have a whole
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staff of people kind of running through things, filtering things through.
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But I think in progressing and Dotoy has this problem too.
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Just clean stuff up, clean up, breakup of pins. I
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have a street going to mention that every show, if
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you break up a pin, knock the guy off and
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make sure the guy lifts his shoulder up, don't just
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hit the guy in the back. And we had a
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ton of that and tonight too. I just want things
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cleaned up. It feels more immersive, it feels more believable,
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And then when you're trying to reenact things from the past,
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it does kind of feel like you're just kind of
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fantasy booking a fantasy promotion instead of just trying to
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make money. But like I said, I'm not a purist.
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I'm like you, if they had pulled this off really smooth.
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I think Hangman dressed to Shavani. I don't think everyone
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saw that, for you know, until just a few seconds beforehand.
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And then it was fun to think, Oh, Joe doesn't
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know because he thinks that's Shavanni. So there's an idea there.
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Well executed still would be a little divisive, but I,
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like you, I'd be on board and think it was
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kind of fun. I also ask to what ends, what
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did Hangman gain even for doing this? Other than the
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entertainment value. Hangman could have just come to the contract signing,
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and when he got the contract to sign, he could
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have just attacked you. Oh like so the idea the
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00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:04.639
only way that he gained advantage is that Joe's guard
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00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:06.360
was down so much that when there was all this
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00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:09.080
ruckus behind him, if his two partners getting attacked, he
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00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:11.080
took five seconds Steve know which direction to look to
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see world what the rucks was all about. I mean,
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there's just so many flaws in this. You can support
315
00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:20.840
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316
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:24.000
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319
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322
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323
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00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:50.360
It's just it's one of those things that was designed
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00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:52.480
more to sword the audience than to make sense for
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the character, like the seth rawlins, fake injury, that kind
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00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:57.639
of saying like, well, this will make good TV, but
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00:15:57.840 --> 00:15:59.840
it doesn't make sense for the character. Ausaarily, You're right,
329
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:02.480
Man could have attacked Joe a million times. As far
330
00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:03.840
as I know, he could have attacked him in the
331
00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:05.320
middle of that match. It was a four way, so
332
00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:06.240
there's no rules, right.
333
00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:08.559
I don't think they said that because they acted like
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00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:11.840
they're They kind of acted like there were but I
335
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:14.399
but again, I don't think like Tony Kahan in the
336
00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:17.159
earlier match, he goes, this match is so important, there's
337
00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:21.279
no interference. There's never interference allowed unless it's an O
338
00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:24.679
d Q match. Why aw does this thing where they
339
00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:28.799
declare this match is so important that Stokely Hathaway is
340
00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:32.799
not allowed at ringside because interference is not allowed. Interference
341
00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:34.840
is never allowed. That's why people try to get away
342
00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:38.679
with interference and not get caught, because it's never allowed.
343
00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:40.799
So when you say Tony Khan is saying this match
344
00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:43.879
is so important, interference isn't allowed, what you really mean
345
00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:47.799
is he's going to create a barrier for people to
346
00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:50.080
interfere by not allowing them to stand at ringside. But
347
00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:52.120
they should say but like in all matches, if someone
348
00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:55.600
does come to ringside and interfere, they'll get decued. It's
349
00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:57.679
not a new thing that interference is banned. And I
350
00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:00.200
don't know how nobody thinks to say this, Oh we're
351
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:04.039
gonna say no interference, it's never allowed. This isn't a
352
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:06.039
new thing. All you did is say Stokely sid four
353
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:08.680
feet further from being able to interfere. That's the only
354
00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:11.960
thing that happened here. And it's like it's not that
355
00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:14.000
big of a deal, but it's revealing of the fact
356
00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:17.559
that there's this like really low IQ level editing of
357
00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:21.400
things that are illogical and nobody either notices or things
358
00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:24.000
to speak up and go, or they think it doesn't
359
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:25.960
matter because they're just looking down at their audience. They
360
00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:28.559
think the audience thinks, ooh, this match is going to
361
00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:31.200
be more exciting because unlike all the other matches where
362
00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:34.880
interference isn't allowed, in this match, interference is really not allowed.
363
00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:37.519
Like just say, if someone interference in this match, they're
364
00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:40.960
suspended for a year. Okay, I mean it seems like
365
00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:43.960
a bit much, but like, at least there's something you're
366
00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:46.559
doing to separate it from all the other matches that
367
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:48.000
you're acting are different than this one.
368
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:50.640
Right, Yeah, Well, in fairness, that was also in reference
369
00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:52.640
to another four way match, not that you should have
370
00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:55.400
multiple four ways on a match on a show anyways,
371
00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:58.359
but again there should have been no rules and they
372
00:17:58.359 --> 00:18:01.160
were clarifying that, which again is still weird because they're saying,
373
00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:03.599
nobody's a lot of ringside, but it's still a four way,
374
00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:05.720
so there's still will be cues as far.
375
00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:08.160
As yeah, and you're playing out Ducky Ducks song. Interference
376
00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:11.359
is always allowed in multi man tag team matches, So
377
00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:16.200
the point here is in this match, we're not allowing
378
00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:20.799
interference when normally, so I'll be I'll stand corrected on
379
00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:24.000
this one. Normally we allow indiscriminate and interfer. This gets
380
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:26.000
a whole other pet people mine, but they've by the way,
381
00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:27.839
they've done it before. There's no interference and it's just
382
00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:29.519
a match, and they act like it's something. But in
383
00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:32.200
this case, the idea is, well, normally we'd allow interference,
384
00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:34.319
even though a world title or take team title is
385
00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:37.200
at stake, take team title match, we would allow interference,
386
00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:39.279
But this one is special. We're not going why not
387
00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:42.920
just always make interference illegal, including in three way and
388
00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:45.720
four way matches with that stupid multi person rule. But
389
00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:49.039
in the there was a point where I thought there
390
00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:50.279
was a point in the in the main event with
391
00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:54.680
Lashley where there was a thought that I wish I'd
392
00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:56.279
have to look at my notes. But there was something
393
00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:57.960
where it looked like, oh, he'd get decute if you
394
00:18:58.000 --> 00:18:59.480
got cot doing that or something, And I was like, wait,
395
00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:01.759
are we or or count it out or something. It's like, oh,
396
00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:03.079
he had to do that. Behind the rest back I
397
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:05.440
think again, I think Daniel said something I wish I
398
00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:07.759
could recall it right off. Danielson said something like, oh,
399
00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:09.039
we got away with that and like, well what if
400
00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:15.519
he didn't, So anyway, it's yeah. Adam Kids says I
401
00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:21.400
love Wade. All right, I'm ranting. Let's see what else. Oh,
402
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:23.440
Derek Mitchell goes, I grew with Wade. The last segment
403
00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:26.559
was very scooby doo who row. Oh yeah ruro if
404
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:27.839
I had to say it till like n till I
405
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:30.240
got the reference or I can't do the full thing.
406
00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:34.440
Fan Blest says, I just don't watch wrestling for cute
407
00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:36.160
skits and masks. I'd like to see a product that
408
00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:38.839
is a serious drama, just to see how it works out.
409
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:41.559
Just try it one day. And I always refer to
410
00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:42.920
the press release they put up, we're gonna be a
411
00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:45.359
sports league and there's gonna be rankings, and and then
412
00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:47.799
we had the pre show and it was just you know,
413
00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:50.279
librarians and nonsense. And then Tony CON's like, I'm not
414
00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:52.480
doing that again. And you know, we're not going to
415
00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:54.200
make this being the elite. We're not gonna be all
416
00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:55.640
tongue in cheek ironic. We're going to try to do
417
00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:58.240
a sports league and then no, here we are. You
418
00:19:58.279 --> 00:20:00.960
know we're not and they're not differentiating them. It's let's
419
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:03.440
reenact all the things from ECW. I mean, this is
420
00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:06.319
your life Tony conn type booking approach. It's everything Tony
421
00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:08.640
con liked growing up, and it's just now he's got
422
00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:12.559
a TV show to reenact it, sometimes more poorly, but
423
00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:15.440
with better athletes, right, I think.
424
00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:17.480
Let's remember the problem of the problem, Like they're borrowing
425
00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:20.480
things that have been done that weren't necessarily good the
426
00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:24.000
first time, and oftentimes not doing them as well, which
427
00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:29.119
is disappointing. On the plus side, at least, like you
428
00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:31.160
just said, usually with better athletes, so.
429
00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:34.200
At least the matches, Yeah, well that's usually pretty good.
430
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:37.400
But ironically, that's really all they need to do is
431
00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:40.079
focus on those very good matches they can have and
432
00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:44.559
just put simple storylines around them. It's not as complicated
433
00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:45.279
as they're making it.
434
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:52.000
There's room for a little bit of levity, but that
435
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:56.200
levity should be in a in a certain like zone
436
00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:59.799
away from a match that determines who you're champion is
437
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:00.960
going to be or who's going to be the number
438
00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:02.960
one contender, like keep it up in but you know,
439
00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:04.160
and you don't even have to do that. I mean,
440
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:05.839
I'd be fine with the company that didn't think, you
441
00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:08.200
know what, we're not happy being wrestling promoters. Let's be
442
00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:11.880
sketch comedy SNL writers, like wrestlers can't just be happy
443
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:16.039
like in content, having credible matches that feel real and
444
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:19.279
cutting promos that make that get across their personality and
445
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.039
causes people to refo against them. Everybody just wants to
446
00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:24.119
be a comedian, and everyone wants to do sketch comedy,
447
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:26.119
Like why can't wrestler just be wrestlers and they can
448
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:28.839
go do improv off to the side off our wrestling shows,
449
00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:31.400
and it is It's like, could we try that once?
450
00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:35.359
Let's see, let's see what happens. Tony Kahn definitely likes
451
00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:39.000
really good athletic wrestling, and he also likes to relive
452
00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:43.960
by reenacting, often in a clumsy, derivative way, things that
453
00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:46.279
he got a kick out of as a kid, grown
454
00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:49.960
up as a twenty something. So we know his proclivity
455
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:51.839
is like really good wrestling, but I also want to
456
00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:56.400
I want to be a fantasy reenactor of great moments
457
00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:59.519
in my childhood growing up. And I'm not sure that's
458
00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:02.960
a great formula. I mean, I again, I would be
459
00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:06.440
super like let's say humbles it out though, I would.
460
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:11.559
I'd be super uh deferentials right on the conflor, I'd
461
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:14.799
be deferential to something that was working really well. I'd
462
00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:16.759
be like, Okay, this isn't for me, and I think
463
00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:18.880
it could be better executed, but you know what, it's
464
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:20.799
really working. But when the counter argument someone made in
465
00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:22.519
the crowd, I think it was zach Oh, but the
466
00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:24.480
crowd pop for it, so it worked. Yeah, crowd of
467
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:27.960
like twenty nine hundred people, you know. I mean it's
468
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:31.079
like with ratings and viewership that is dropping faster than
469
00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:34.559
other wrestling shows. I don't know. I mean, I just
470
00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:38.519
I would be differential if this was really really working,
471
00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:41.200
But I'd also go imagine how much better would work,
472
00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:45.279
Joshua if it was done well and if they separated
473
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:49.039
the comedy from the world title scenes. So yeah, right,
474
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:49.559
like if.
475
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:53.079
They did your you know, stand up comedy wrestling idea,
476
00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:55.880
which I'm putting it out to the universe that somebody
477
00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:58.240
will probably try that at some point. If they did
478
00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:01.039
that and it was successful and at work, and they
479
00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:04.079
did that well, that would be one story. But this
480
00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:07.400
is a separate story where they're doing something.
481
00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:08.480
Like that but not even committed to that.
482
00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:10.759
It seems like they're not even committed to any of it,
483
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:13.240
like they're kind of want to try this, they kind
484
00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:16.359
of want to try that, and like nothing, like they
485
00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:18.400
just don't put enough thought into any of it to
486
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:20.799
really pull off. Even if, like I said, like I
487
00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:23.119
even thought about the main event segment, like I think
488
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:25.240
it could have been good, but it wasn't because they
489
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:27.839
just thought this is a good idea, less thrown out there.
490
00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:29.920
Like so even the things that I'm not sure I
491
00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:33.200
would like, they often don't do with conviction or consistently
492
00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:36.079
enough that to even know whether or not it would work.
493
00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:38.400
It's okay to just be kind of bored and do
494
00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:42.319
a good job, you know, like in their traffic controller
495
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:44.359
doesn't also need to like show I can keep airplanes
496
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:47.920
for crashing into each other while well while juggling and
497
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:50.359
while entering myself in a hot dog geting contest, Like
498
00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:52.440
just do your job and keep planes from crashing into
499
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:54.119
each other, Like you can be a good wrestling promoter
500
00:23:54.279 --> 00:23:56.759
by just booking matches people want to see with compelling
501
00:23:56.799 --> 00:23:59.480
characters in a realistic setting with logical setup and in
502
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:03.559
a backstorre where contenders earn their title shots and stop
503
00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:05.599
just trying to be something else that's been a like
504
00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:08.599
the one thing. I'll give wrestling promoters more than one thing,
505
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:11.680
but one thing wrestling promoters were really good at prior
506
00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:14.440
to the Monday Night or era. Really, I don't know,
507
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:16.920
vinsick Man Sentences main event in the mid eighties did
508
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:19.720
this too. They just wanted to be wrestling promoters, like
509
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:23.000
and then Vince is like, let's do zany comedy, Let's
510
00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:25.079
have heel billies dancing. But then you had like the
511
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:27.839
whole nineties, it became so much more. But I don't know,
512
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:31.319
it's a whole I just if you nicely, just see
513
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:33.799
a Bill Watt's type approach to Verne Ginty. Let's just
514
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:37.400
with a straight face, tell a really compelling story of
515
00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:39.880
the simulated fight League where we are in control of
516
00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:41.279
who wins and loses, so we can make sure the
517
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:44.680
most charismatic, exciting people are on top, and we have
518
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:47.400
liberties with the way we fight, where no one's getting
519
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:49.839
black eyes and getting injured. Although you can do a
520
00:24:50.440 --> 00:24:52.279
you know, moon salt to the floor and break your
521
00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:54.480
arm I mean or injury arm. I mean, you know,
522
00:24:54.519 --> 00:24:55.920
we could cut back on some of these moves that
523
00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:57.960
are excessive and at least cut the injury right down
524
00:24:58.000 --> 00:24:59.799
and end up with a product that's equally as exciting,
525
00:24:59.799 --> 00:25:04.240
but choosing safer moves that are exciting. But so, I
526
00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:05.839
would just like to see a promoter just be proud
527
00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:08.079
to be a progressing promoter. And nothing progressing promoting is
528
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:10.680
to find based on whether you can make people laugh
529
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:14.359
and do swerves and swerve people.
530
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.200
I hope everybody else can hear you. I cannot hear
531
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:26.359
what you're saying. I don't know if you can hear
532
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.279
me at all. I can't hear me or you can.
533
00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:30.839
You hear me yet?
534
00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:32.200
Now I hear you?
535
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:35.400
Okay, oh yeah, okay, I just reset my whatever the
536
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:37.440
box is called here something short it out. When someone
537
00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:39.359
said you're muted, I didn't know if they meant me
538
00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:44.400
or you, So I just was chatting. Yeah, yeah, now
539
00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:48.200
we're now we're good. Oh. Zach Barber's theory is Tony
540
00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:49.319
Conhact Wade set up.
541
00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:49.640
Lol.
542
00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:52.480
I've only got tired of the relentless a w bashing, Zach.
543
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:55.400
I know you're joking, but come on, let's let's take
544
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:58.279
a point by point this This top segment was was
545
00:25:58.279 --> 00:26:04.319
was worthy of of bashing critique. What was I saying
546
00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:06.359
when suddenly I can't quldn't hear you? But it was
547
00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:11.440
my sound shorting out. I don't know, Maybe that's maybe
548
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:14.319
that's someone's way of saying, let's move on, let's let's
549
00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:17.960
let's pause and introduce the show. Oh I know, no,
550
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:21.079
let's let's not want to answer Zach Zech's super tack question.
551
00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:23.400
That's how I think where I got cut off, So
552
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:25.119
Zach said Wade, I've always wanted ask this, how do
553
00:26:25.160 --> 00:26:28.200
you disqualify someone in a three way match? And I
554
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:32.599
think you the referee goes, you're just qualified. Believe you're eliminated.
555
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:35.880
Now it's one on one. I mean what I don't get, like,
556
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:36.839
am I missing something?
557
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:36.920
What?
558
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:40.079
It's just elimination style? You do you cheat, you're no
559
00:26:40.119 --> 00:26:43.119
longer in the match, and now it's one on one. Well,
560
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:44.799
I mean, honestly, like, Zach, what what am I?
561
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:44.960
What?
562
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:46.960
Am I missing this idea of well, you can't have
563
00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:49.559
a you can have a three way match with with interference,
564
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:50.680
you have to allow everything.
565
00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:57.960
Gosh, am I frozen or no way? It's just frozen?
566
00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:03.359
Okay, Well, on the off chance that I'm not actually frozen,
567
00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:09.240
I'm going to continue arguing with Zach. So, Yeah, if
568
00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:12.079
there's four people in a match and one of them
569
00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:14.960
gets as qualified, it's a three way, super easy.
570
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:15.279
Right.
571
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:17.799
If there's three people in a match and one of
572
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:19.880
them gets is qualified, it's a two way. If there's
573
00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:21.799
two people in a match, one gets as qualified, the
574
00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:27.240
wonder mainning guy wins. Very simple, it's not complicated. It's
575
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:31.240
just a very logical way to move forward with that
576
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:33.960
kind of situation. I don't know when they decided that
577
00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:37.559
multiman matches needed to be no DQ, but they don't,
578
00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:41.400
and they just are because one time WWE said they are,
579
00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:44.480
and everybody just assumed that's cannon and move forward with it,
580
00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:45.000
which is.
581
00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:47.759
Not necessarily a good way to move forward with things.
582
00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:51.200
It'd be great if when AW wanted to start a
583
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:56.599
new show, if they would stop and think, not necessarily,
584
00:27:56.680 --> 00:27:59.359
how is this been done before? But how can we
585
00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:05.079
do it? And you know, do it their way as
586
00:28:05.079 --> 00:28:07.400
well they should, which I assume in exactly what way
587
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:09.799
was saying before he froze and disappeared.
588
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:16.880
And he's gone again. Right, I think I think we're
589
00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:17.920
I think everybody that's not.
590
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:21.160
Zach is an agreement with how a disqualifation should work
591
00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:22.319
in a multiman tag match.
592
00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:26.279
Yeah, I'm back my computer. Just something's going on and
593
00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:28.160
it shorted out and then it restarted. So I'm back now.
594
00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:28.599
Can you hear me?
595
00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:31.319
Fine, I can hear you as far as I can tell,
596
00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:33.119
I can see you. Everything was good now.
597
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:35.920
Yeah, and I think my good mic is set up here. Okay,
598
00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:39.599
sorry about all that, everybody. Yeah, so I caught you saying,
599
00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:42.039
like Derek Mitchell says in the chat, when you cheat
600
00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:45.039
and get caught, you forfeit your opportunity to continue in
601
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.119
the match, Zach goes. Traditionally, triple threats are one fall,
602
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:50.359
not elimination style. But I see your point. That's always
603
00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:51.960
been my point every time someone brings it up.
604
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:52.119
Zack.
605
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:53.640
You said you always wanted to ask me. I've said
606
00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:56.039
that like multitudes of times because I think it's so
607
00:28:56.119 --> 00:28:59.480
ridiculous to allow anything goes if you add a third
608
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:02.640
person to match, rather than say, if anyone cheats in
609
00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:06.200
a three way match, you're you're out. It becomes one
610
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:06.920
on one match.
611
00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:09.319
Is not a fault. You just take that person out
612
00:29:09.319 --> 00:29:10.359
of the match. Matches.
613
00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:12.279
It's not like you have to have to winter like
614
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:15.720
I'm sorry. Maybe maybe I am a super genius by
615
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:17.720
realizing if one person gets eliminated, you don't.
616
00:29:17.559 --> 00:29:23.559
Have all right, assuming Wade's frozen again and I'm still
617
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:24.160
not frozen.
618
00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:30.200
So that's how we do multiman matches going forward. You
619
00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:30.759
cheat your.
620
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:35.400
Lemonade, easy pas. All right, So I think we've covered
621
00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:40.039
the main event very in depth. One other thing I
622
00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:44.640
think we should probably bring up is, uh, the John
623
00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:48.359
Moxley storyline, which is one of the bigger storylines going on.
624
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:53.119
You got why in the world is John Moxley still
625
00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:57.160
fighting and struggling with Kyli Riley? Right, So if there's
626
00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:00.319
a storyline they're telling, maybe Moxley's lost his mojo, which
627
00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:03.039
is not even a bad storyline, but they're not doing
628
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:07.440
a great job telling that, and nobody needs to see
629
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:11.640
back to back Kyle O'Reilly John Moxley matches going fifteen
630
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:15.519
minutes where John Moxley, former world champion, can't get over
631
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:17.160
the hump with Kyler Riley, And I like coler rely,
632
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:20.440
I'm a Kyler o'reiley fan, but he is not and
633
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:23.240
is not at that level, and he's never been portrayed
634
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:30.279
at that level in aew so, and I still don't
635
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:32.440
know they're going with that double count out. That's going
636
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:34.720
to be a laye finished. That's a very WW way
637
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:37.880
to treat a match, just like Moxley purposely gon in
638
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:38.799
Leney last week.
639
00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:41.920
All bad things and I think we got way back.
640
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:46.799
Thanks for covering for me. If I crash again, I'll
641
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:50.200
just switch to my laptop. Don't know what's going on.
642
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:52.319
I tried to quit everything else, just about everything else.
643
00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:58.480
I'm running here to see if some softwares is causing issues,
644
00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:00.240
although now I can't get to maybe that is a problem.
645
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:04.920
Let me do a force quit here on one software
646
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:09.160
item that isn't responding, and we'll see if I can
647
00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:17.960
survive without more directions. All right, okay, so I'll ignore that.
648
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:22.920
All right, So let's pause and introduce this disaster of
649
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:27.640
a five of a show with the technology my normally
650
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:32.440
reliable Max Studio giving me trouble. It's only crashed twice
651
00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:33.880
in all the years I've had it, and it was
652
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:37.880
while I was live podcasting, and uh so maybe it's
653
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:39.759
I don't know, I probably have too many caps open.
654
00:31:39.799 --> 00:31:42.759
But oh I'm on my phone because my computer wouldn't connect,
655
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:43.920
so that's kind of okay.
656
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:46.960
Well, you're looking good and you're not mute at events, so.
657
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:53.880
Anyway need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
658
00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:56.680
will come join me Alan four l Over in the
659
00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:01.119
Progress Paradise at pedetorch VIP as wesk on the bright
660
00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:03.839
side of wrestling and focus on some of the great
661
00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:07.960
matches and shows from around the world, be it the US, Japan,
662
00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:11.880
Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestlings past
663
00:32:11.960 --> 00:32:15.039
in the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows
664
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:18.279
such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious
665
00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:21.440
career of Jusian thunder Lighter and our Eye Was There
666
00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:23.880
When shows where our guests will join me to talk
667
00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:26.480
about a classic bout that they were in attendance for.
668
00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:29.640
We love variety and you can expect lots of it
669
00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:34.440
at the Prorest Paradise. Detailed PWO Torch VIP subscription information
670
00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:37.519
and a list of all the VIP benefits is available
671
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:41.960
at pterwrew torch vipinfo dot com. And yes, all VIP
672
00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:45.960
podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone and
673
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:49.240
Android devices, or you can stream them directly from our
674
00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:52.880
ad free VIP mobile site See you in the paradise.
675
00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:56.519
So here we go.
676
00:32:56.599 --> 00:32:59.599
This is the Way Keller Pro Wrestling Post show for Wednesday,
677
00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:02.480
October ten, twenty ninth, twenty twenty five. I'm Way Keller,
678
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:05.039
host of the show, editor, publisher and founder of the
679
00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:10.480
long running Pro Wrestling Torch Weekly news.
680
00:33:11.240 --> 00:33:14.200
All right, so I think you're saying, this is the
681
00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:18.680
pro wrestling Pro Wrestling Torch podcast. He's the co founder,
682
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:24.079
editor and so forth on the Pro Wrestling Torch website.
683
00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:26.720
Go vip everybody, it's on the old website. I don't
684
00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:31.160
remember the exact thing. I actually signed up through my
685
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:35.279
podcast app originally, and then I don't know why I'm
686
00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:38.079
now on the podcast, but that's a great way to
687
00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:40.559
sign up. If you're only interested in the audio, you
688
00:33:40.599 --> 00:33:42.559
can't catch all these shows you want. The next day
689
00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:46.400
is always good. I love the podcast, but the commercials
690
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:51.480
are unbearable. I recommend going vip to get no commercials
691
00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:54.680
because they're bad Minor Spanish half the time or more.
692
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:55.599
It's awful.
693
00:33:56.759 --> 00:33:58.920
So hopefully and Wade gets back, he'll finish introducing the
694
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:01.319
show that I am babbling through.
695
00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:01.559
Now.
696
00:34:03.079 --> 00:34:07.279
We were talking about Moxley, who is not been great
697
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:11.440
dragging the company down. Uh, you put over Hangman good,
698
00:34:11.480 --> 00:34:12.320
you put over Derby.
699
00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:13.679
Good. But what are we doing now?
700
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:17.519
Is I know Zach and There said that they're showing
701
00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:21.119
that or Moxley is a he's shaken from his loss
702
00:34:21.159 --> 00:34:22.679
and he's questioned himself.
703
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:25.000
He's really struggling. But I think the.
704
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:27.519
General consensus, and I'm not alone on this, that Moxley
705
00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:30.400
should have just straight up disappeared after he lost the Derby.
706
00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:34.280
Easy pasy, You're on the next thing. Moxley's had a
707
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:35.480
vacation coming for months.
708
00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:38.039
Hey, look Wayne's back. He's gonna tell us what show
709
00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:38.920
we're watching right now?
710
00:34:41.079 --> 00:34:43.280
We're watching, we're listening to watching.
711
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:43.559
The Way Teller.
712
00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:46.480
Uh. I gotta put my mic in front of me.
713
00:34:46.519 --> 00:34:48.440
I rearrange everything on the fly.
714
00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:48.760
Here.
715
00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:51.119
Uh, this is the way Keller pro Slaying post show.
716
00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:53.719
And I'm the editor of this newsletter and I hold
717
00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:55.760
it up and hopefully my laptop home crush on me.
718
00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:58.880
Now here's the latest issue Hot off the presses PW
719
00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:02.400
Torch dot com, slash go v I P and uh yeah,
720
00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:06.719
we are talking aw Dynamite tonight. I've put my laptop
721
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:08.920
in front of me. I'm skipping my Max Studio which
722
00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:12.400
is malfunctioning unfortunately. Fun little project for later in the
723
00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:16.320
week to see if I gotta like whatever. Who knows.
724
00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:19.159
And it's good to have Joshua White with me today
725
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:22.719
talking aw dynamite. Sorry, josh You're you're put in a
726
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:25.199
position to uh have to like carry things when when
727
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:29.000
everything's going awry here all it sounds like things are.
728
00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:31.159
You're doing a fine job keeping the conversation going.
729
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:35.199
Yeah, my favorite public speaking is really propelling me forward awkwardly.
730
00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:41.880
Sounds sounds good. All right, So if you're watching us
731
00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:44.400
live on the peld Torch Way Tiller YouTube channel, uh,
732
00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:46.599
you're welcome to join in the chat. So just it's
733
00:35:46.599 --> 00:35:53.000
a fun conversation there and uh we will uh uh
734
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:55.280
we'll keeping on the chat as a show progresses. Here.
735
00:35:55.559 --> 00:35:58.320
I'm realizing that my my my track pad is not
736
00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:00.079
connected to the laptop, so I'm trying to like doing
737
00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:01.880
so I'm like, wait, I have to use my laptop
738
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:03.719
track packcause I'm at the same desk, but I'm surrounded
739
00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:06.599
by different moving parts here. So we'll see how I
740
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:09.159
do when under times of duress when things are going
741
00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:12.000
around here, because normally everything actually goes smooth. So thankful
742
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.199
for that. So Joshua, tell people what you do for
743
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:17.400
people you torch and how they can read more from you.
744
00:36:18.239 --> 00:36:23.280
Yeah, so mostly I cover the B show for aew Collision.
745
00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:26.840
Nobody watches it, and if you don't watch it, you
746
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:29.760
may want to read my report because occasionally something almost
747
00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:32.960
irrelevant happens on there and it's worth reading about.
748
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:34.920
And if you want to read.
749
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:37.360
Blow by blow by blow by blow how a match went,
750
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:39.920
I got that too because I don't know why, but
751
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:41.280
I want all the moves on there.
752
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:43.920
They do all the moves, so I put all the moves.
753
00:36:43.960 --> 00:36:44.599
It seems fair.
754
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:47.199
So I mostly do that, and I occasionally get roped
755
00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:50.960
into the real show here on Dynamite and that's fun,
756
00:36:51.079 --> 00:36:52.760
just fun. Changing it pas for me because there's stuff
757
00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:54.199
to talk about in thead of saying yeah, it was
758
00:36:54.199 --> 00:36:54.719
a good match.
759
00:36:55.119 --> 00:36:58.199
There was a discussion when Collision was launched. We're like,
760
00:36:58.280 --> 00:37:00.880
we should maybe I'll just do a Saturday post show
761
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:01.880
after Collision every week.
762
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:02.039
You know.
763
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:03.719
It was because They're gonna have been like a kind
764
00:37:03.719 --> 00:37:05.920
of a semi exclusive Rosters of the Top guys. So
765
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:07.440
it's like, well, if I'm going to cover c on Punk,
766
00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:10.559
I gotta I gotta cover Collision and and you know,
767
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:12.679
we did a couple but you know, it's scheduling wise,
768
00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:16.199
it's it's tough. You know, I don't have many evenings
769
00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:19.159
to do anything, you know, socially in my life. With
770
00:37:19.159 --> 00:37:21.280
the way everything works out in my schedule. It gives
771
00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:23.280
me some flexibility afternoons, which is nicer. I mean, there's
772
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:26.000
a trade off, but even those are usually quite busy,
773
00:37:26.079 --> 00:37:29.480
so so I mean, there's it'd be nice if Collision
774
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:34.559
was relevant enough where it felt like an egregious uh
775
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:37.119
not oversight, but like an egregious decision not to do
776
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:39.559
a live post show. But yeah, I don't know that
777
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:43.000
most weeks there'd be enough developments and content to to
778
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:46.000
do a full a full post show on it, like
779
00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:47.440
we do it Dynamite. So yeah, I think it has
780
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:49.400
it has to be fun, Joshua to to be talk
781
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:52.880
a w but have a TV show usually packed with
782
00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:54.239
quite a few talking points.
783
00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:56.679
Yeah, I mean, if you put like me and Brian
784
00:37:56.760 --> 00:37:58.800
on for a Collision post who would be just be like, yeah,
785
00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:00.400
this is a good match. That was a good match.
786
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:02.079
Oh the other match that was also a good match.
787
00:38:02.199 --> 00:38:04.800
Oh there's a promo it advanced the storyline like a
788
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:08.039
quarter Yeah, the match, that'd be great. Although this last
789
00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:10.639
week they did have a Hangman promo to open the show,
790
00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:12.679
which was a special treat for guys like me, and
791
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:17.000
they actually showed it on Dynamite, which was extra bonus.
792
00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:19.400
They almost never do that, so yeah, that was a
793
00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:20.960
great development for a.
794
00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:24.119
Collision they if you just never get the sense they're
795
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:27.400
actually serious about you should watch Collision because I don't know,
796
00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:28.840
I mean, every once in a while they do and
797
00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:30.559
then they just kind of lose interest again, and it
798
00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:33.159
could be a strategy, you know, just we need Dynamite
799
00:38:33.199 --> 00:38:35.559
to be the a show Saturday. We have all kinds
800
00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:37.159
of excuses not to draw, but we don't have as
801
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:39.440
many on Wednesday. Although it's tough for now with so
802
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:41.119
many NBA games now on every night of the week,
803
00:38:41.159 --> 00:38:44.400
everybody's all the show. Wrestling shows are facing increase competition
804
00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:47.599
and split audience. Anyway, you're welcome to be a video
805
00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:50.480
caller on the show also, and besides being in the chat,
806
00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:53.000
you can find the link to that in my report
807
00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:56.360
on Dynamite at PW Torch on the website, and you
808
00:38:56.360 --> 00:39:00.760
can also email us Wade Keller Podcast at gmail dot com.
809
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:03.199
Weade Keller Podcast at gmail dot com. We also have
810
00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:05.280
Weaight Keller Post Show at gmail dot com because I figure,
811
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:07.719
since we have two podcasts, we should have an email
812
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:09.800
that matches bulls. So if you mail to the if
813
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:12.599
email to that that works too. It's just forwards, so
814
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:16.280
either either way works and you would love to hear
815
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:20.119
from you and whatever whatever format works for you. Joshua,
816
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:22.960
you want to add anything. I thought you were signaling.
817
00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:25.679
No, No, I was just scratching my hand because I'm
818
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:27.800
allergic to my dogs but still carry them.
819
00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:30.440
Oh that's wonderful. I mean, it's not wonderful your allergic,
820
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:33.360
but it's it's great that it's it's worth it. I
821
00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:36.800
understand that, very much. Understand I would. I would put
822
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:39.719
up with being allergic to my dogs and still keep
823
00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:42.599
them over the ears. Okay, let's uh, I'm still kind
824
00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:45.440
of gathering myself here. Just it's every whole rhythms thrown off.
825
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:48.800
But let's let's move on and uh, let's let's go
826
00:39:48.840 --> 00:39:50.079
to college and see what they want to talk. We
827
00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:53.800
talked about the some you know, some issues with with
828
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:56.400
the main closing segment. We could go on. I don't
829
00:39:56.440 --> 00:39:58.599
know that we need to the chat had some fun
830
00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:00.719
with it. Let's bring on Adam Kidd into the show
831
00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:04.400
as a caller. We got rodeog On hold rudeog you
832
00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:06.159
you signal to us if you're fine waiting, because we
833
00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:08.880
don't want to keep you up too late. Also, I
834
00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:12.079
think I summarized there there's a thumb all right, Hey Adam,
835
00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:14.360
good to see you. Was it was it you? I
836
00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:16.239
think right? All the problems started when you called in.
837
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:18.719
Yeah, I think that. I think it was my fault,
838
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:21.800
all my fault. How are you guys tonight?
839
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:24.440
Good, good to see you. Good to talk to you chat.
840
00:40:24.519 --> 00:40:29.599
First time calling, Yeah, Josh, long time no talk buddy, Yeah,
841
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:36.639
powers yeah hours. Yeah. I thought it was just the
842
00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:41.639
show tonight. I wasn't that impressed. Oh yeah, Zach, I
843
00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:47.360
got your old boy for you. The thing that I
844
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:52.280
wanted to talk about was during that last segment. I
845
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:56.800
did not like the bottle shot to Joe's head. It
846
00:40:56.840 --> 00:40:59.559
didn't look like the bottle broke. He's a guy with
847
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:03.679
his reconcussion issues. I mean it cost him when he
848
00:41:03.719 --> 00:41:07.519
was in WWE, when he was doing the commercial shoot,
849
00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:10.360
he was out for a long time, almost ended his career.
850
00:41:11.320 --> 00:41:17.880
What is the infatuation with aw with unprotected headshots on performers.
851
00:41:18.199 --> 00:41:21.280
It happens all the time. It bugs me.
852
00:41:22.519 --> 00:41:27.639
I mean, it's not nineteen ninety five anymore. If we're
853
00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:31.239
not learning from what we've seen from all these guys
854
00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:35.800
that don't have a good quality of life now later
855
00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:38.639
in life, but we keep making the same mistakes over
856
00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:41.679
and over again. That's one of my biggest putt peeves
857
00:41:41.719 --> 00:41:45.840
with Tony. He's not a boss, he's not a leader.
858
00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:49.679
I said it in the chat earlier. He needs to
859
00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:53.440
start just writing checks and quit writing wrestling. Let somebody
860
00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:57.400
else run the show. It just it bugs me. If
861
00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:00.400
you really care about wrestling, then you need to care
862
00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:01.719
about these performers' health.
863
00:42:01.960 --> 00:42:02.400
Like you said.
864
00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:04.800
Yeah, you can break an arm, get hurt diving out
865
00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:07.480
of the ring, that's part of the job. But things
866
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:12.320
like that are totally avoidable. And I just I mean
867
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:15.440
a bust that I'm open he I just hope he's
868
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:19.639
okay and it doesn't cost us the main event of
869
00:42:20.199 --> 00:42:20.719
Full Gear.
870
00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:25.880
Yeah. So I did not see the shot, So I
871
00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:29.719
just typed in my report and so I and unfortunately
872
00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:35.039
my DVR with RECTV tapes records the overrun. But only
873
00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:37.199
for like three minutes, so I always have to be
874
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:41.079
watching live afterwards, and then it's harder to replay until
875
00:42:41.079 --> 00:42:44.400
they load up the replay, so logistically I can't go
876
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:47.000
back and watch what I miss. So Joshua described did
877
00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:48.440
you notice and do you want to describe what you saw?
878
00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:50.079
To an additional Adam just said.
879
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:55.360
Yeah, no, So I think I apparently didn't see it
880
00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:58.400
very well either. I and I think Derek may have
881
00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:01.679
said this in the chat. Also thought maybe that Page
882
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:04.719
should hit Joe with the microphone, don't get me wrong,
883
00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:08.760
aggressively hard, and he was definitely bleeding from the head afterwards.
884
00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:13.280
But I have the impression that I must have looked
885
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:15.880
away because I didn't see anybody get a bottle broken
886
00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:18.239
over their head necessarily, although I know they were definitely
887
00:43:18.280 --> 00:43:20.880
puddled in the ring. I thought maybe Shabataga hit bad one.
888
00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:24.480
I didn't actually catch that whole exchange.
889
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:28.480
So, yeah, Adam, were you sure it was a beer bottle?
890
00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:30.239
I hate to litigate this side on the air.
891
00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:31.599
I thought it was.
892
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:32.719
I thought it was.
893
00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:35.079
If I was wrong, I'll openly and then I'm wrong.
894
00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:36.920
I'mlike Zach who never says he's wrong.
895
00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:42.400
But he did once earlier in the show. Yeah, I don't,
896
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:45.639
he conceded a point. He conceded he'll do that every
897
00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:48.679
once in a while. Yeah, you know that.
898
00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:50.559
Just I had to get that off my chest.
899
00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:53.039
That bugs me, so I'll say generally because I got
900
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:55.239
I got sidetracked at I'm talking about whether sad or
901
00:43:55.320 --> 00:43:57.760
not and what it was I do. I mean, I
902
00:43:57.800 --> 00:43:59.960
had an issue going way back, and I think I
903
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:02.800
expressed it Tony directly when it happened, the chair shots
904
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:05.199
to the head, Like, I mean, that's just something we've
905
00:44:05.239 --> 00:44:07.920
we've wrestling industry had sort of it seemed agreed on
906
00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:10.440
a large scale with profet not to do that, and
907
00:44:10.599 --> 00:44:12.800
it was a whole thing. Did Tony Kon miss out
908
00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:14.840
on all the all the stuff that was going on
909
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:18.239
that caused the industry WW to lead the way and go, yeah,
910
00:44:18.320 --> 00:44:20.079
we're gonna do chair shots to the back, We'll do
911
00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:21.760
it to the knee, we'll do it, We'll jab you
912
00:44:22.199 --> 00:44:24.440
in the gut. But we're not We're not even gonna swing.
913
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:26.239
And I know there's wrestlers, Oh, we know how to
914
00:44:26.239 --> 00:44:28.280
protect ourselves and make it look bad and it's it's
915
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:32.159
over it's overrated, and backyard wrestling with kids. Isn't the
916
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:34.159
epidemic it once was where everyone was copying everybody. I
917
00:44:34.199 --> 00:44:35.760
don't know what happened to that, if it'll ever come back,
918
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:37.840
but there are all kinds of things that happened. But
919
00:44:38.119 --> 00:44:40.239
it was sort of like it's it's my philosophy, Like
920
00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:42.400
there's so many things wrestlers are willing to do to
921
00:44:42.440 --> 00:44:45.079
themselves when they're young and feel in vulnerable or trying
922
00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:48.639
to prove themselves or or pay their dues like their
923
00:44:48.639 --> 00:44:51.000
predecessors did, and there just comes a point where you
924
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:53.400
kind of want to outgrow it. Like hockey players eventually
925
00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:56.960
agreed to wear helmets, you know, I mean some some
926
00:44:57.039 --> 00:44:59.360
aged out got grandfathered in without them. I got to
927
00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:01.000
see some of that as when I was a fan,
928
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:03.280
you know, Willie Platt now se Cord and the North
929
00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:05.280
Stars black Hawks games, they wouldn't wear their helmet because
930
00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:07.039
they were the fighters and they were rarely in there
931
00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:08.880
when animals could shoot the puck hard. But it's still
932
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:11.840
I mean, it's still dangerous, but eventually we just go, yeah,
933
00:45:11.880 --> 00:45:14.679
there's things we should do for safety, even if in
934
00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:16.599
the NHL is a big sacrifice because you didn't get
935
00:45:16.599 --> 00:45:17.880
to know the players as well, because they all are
936
00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:20.880
sort of interchangeab. Unless you really squint, you can't see
937
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:22.599
their hairstyle in their face as much. It hurt the
938
00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:26.440
NHL's marketing for safety. The thing about wrestling is Joshua
939
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:28.679
aw don't lose one fan or one viewer or one
940
00:45:28.679 --> 00:45:31.360
pay per view buy Oh, I'll be making a cameo there,
941
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:35.920
sweet ros, it's a dog episode.
942
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:36.400
Love it.
943
00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:40.119
Aw's will lose one viewer, one pay per view by
944
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:42.239
or so one lust ticket if instead of hitting people
945
00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:45.639
in the head with chairs or perhaps you know, other things.
946
00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:48.679
Even some of the high spots that are dazzling, but
947
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:51.039
some of them are just more dangerous than others. Some
948
00:45:51.079 --> 00:45:54.880
spots are more convoluted than is entertaining or worth doing.
949
00:45:55.159 --> 00:45:58.320
And I just think refining the system is fine. I mean,
950
00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:00.440
I don't want to say everyone should rest like Roman
951
00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:02.119
reigns because I don't want to watch progress. And if
952
00:46:02.119 --> 00:46:04.719
everybody wrestles like Rowan Rains, I'll be blunt about that.
953
00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:07.119
I don't just I don't just like his matches, but
954
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:09.360
I really would. I mean, I don't want everyone to
955
00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:14.400
wrestle with his minimal style. But the point is is illustratively,
956
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:16.159
if you're over and you're telling a compelling story and
957
00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:18.920
you know what to do between moves, and your character's over,
958
00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:20.639
and you have this dynamic with your opponent and the
959
00:46:20.679 --> 00:46:23.039
stakes are high, and the title means something, you really
960
00:46:23.079 --> 00:46:25.159
can dial it down, doesn't You don't have to, Zach,
961
00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:27.440
I'm preemptively telling you I don't want all matches to
962
00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:30.079
be boring, So don't give me this false argument that
963
00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:33.159
that you that the straw man argument counter argument, But
964
00:46:33.480 --> 00:46:35.440
there are something you said for just like if we
965
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:38.159
did half as many dangerous spots, there would be half
966
00:46:38.199 --> 00:46:40.559
as many injuries, and we don't need to do chair
967
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:43.880
shots to the head either, Joshua your thoughts.
968
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:48.199
Yeah, I know that the chairs to the head. There's
969
00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:50.800
two problems with it. One is maybe it's safe, maybe
970
00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:51.079
it's not.
971
00:46:51.519 --> 00:46:54.000
But even if you trust the performers to try and
972
00:46:54.039 --> 00:46:55.960
do a safe do you trust ae W to do
973
00:46:56.039 --> 00:46:58.360
it the safest possible environment when they can't given the
974
00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:01.159
timing on the show closing angle?
975
00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:01.519
Correct?
976
00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:04.320
You trust them to get the bank beer bottle or
977
00:47:04.360 --> 00:47:05.360
the shavedown chair?
978
00:47:05.880 --> 00:47:09.400
Correct? I don't. I think they'll accidentally kill somebody if they.
979
00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:13.079
Start leaning into that kind of thing two well, share
980
00:47:13.159 --> 00:47:15.400
shot like that, those kinds of the headshots, they don't
981
00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:17.719
even add anything to the match for most people, with
982
00:47:18.079 --> 00:47:20.440
people longtime wrestling, it takes us out of the match
983
00:47:20.519 --> 00:47:22.840
immediately because like like, oh, they should not have been
984
00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:23.159
doing that.
985
00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:26.440
That's horrible. So whatever impact they think it has, it
986
00:47:26.480 --> 00:47:28.320
doesn't have, and it has the opposite of that.
987
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:33.719
Really good point. Yep, we'll put anytime you're watching WWE
988
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:37.360
Raw or SmackDown or aw Dynamite in particular, send us
989
00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:39.039
an email if you've got thoughts on the show or
990
00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:41.159
a topic you want us to address or a question
991
00:47:41.320 --> 00:47:46.360
for us. Wadekeller Podcast at pw torch dot com. Weadkeller
992
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:49.599
Podcast at pew torch dot com. If there's anything else
993
00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:51.079
going on in pro wrestling that you want us to
994
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:54.559
address on our main podcast during our mailbank segments, that
995
00:47:54.639 --> 00:47:58.239
same email applies Wade Keller Podcast at pw torch dot com.
996
00:47:58.280 --> 00:48:00.880
We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think
997
00:48:00.920 --> 00:48:03.199
of what we're saying, and let us know what you
998
00:48:03.239 --> 00:48:05.880
want us to talk about and ask us specific questions.
999
00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:11.280
Wade Keller Podcast at pw torch dot com. That's it. Yeah,
1000
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:16.159
when you're doing something that people feel like, yeah, I mean,
1001
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:18.039
do I need to use an analogy? I mean, you
1002
00:48:18.079 --> 00:48:23.519
don't want to watch whether it's racing where there's desk
1003
00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:25.760
or search to solay where sometimes something goes wrong, Like
1004
00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:28.800
you don't want unnecessary risks taken. There's an edge to
1005
00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:31.519
everything in wrestling, and I understand I'm not saying that
1006
00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:33.639
there shouldn't be risk and there are going to be injuries.
1007
00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:39.239
The idea is, don't simulate something that can cause a concussion,
1008
00:48:39.920 --> 00:48:42.599
even if you are trying to tell us it doesn't
1009
00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:45.679
really hurt, because you can't really advertise that. I mean
1010
00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:48.400
you cannot. You could like I think Raven was pushing
1011
00:48:48.440 --> 00:48:49.639
back like, oh no, we know how to get our
1012
00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:52.079
hands up, and you know it's overrated and other moves
1013
00:48:52.119 --> 00:48:54.280
are worse, and I've honestly, I mean, flat back bumps
1014
00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:55.559
might have been worse.
1015
00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:55.920
You know.
1016
00:48:56.039 --> 00:48:59.119
Nick Bockwinkel, you know, had mental issues late in life,
1017
00:48:59.559 --> 00:49:02.320
you know, and it might have been all those amazing
1018
00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:06.199
flatback plumper but the jar his head, you know, bounced
1019
00:49:06.199 --> 00:49:08.320
his brain bouncing around and a skull in those flipbacks
1020
00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:10.320
might have might have contributed to it. I don't know
1021
00:49:10.360 --> 00:49:14.840
if that was ever determiner or you know, looked into.
1022
00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:17.320
So I'm not saying wrestling it has to be safe,
1023
00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:20.519
but there is something easily imitated that just looks like
1024
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:22.679
it is going to cause concussions. And someone who's had
1025
00:49:22.679 --> 00:49:24.840
a lock concussions, you don't want something to slip up
1026
00:49:24.840 --> 00:49:26.440
because that could be the end of their career. It
1027
00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:28.880
could set them back in living an enjoyable life. Just
1028
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:32.239
stay away from that. We'll still watch. Everyone will promise
1029
00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:34.159
to still watch. There's not a single person out there
1030
00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:36.159
who loves pro wrestling who's going to say, you know what,
1031
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:37.599
if I don't get your shows, that I'm going to
1032
00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:39.599
stop watching. There's so many other ways to make the
1033
00:49:39.639 --> 00:49:42.960
shows compelling. And when Tony allowed that, it just felt like,
1034
00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:46.760
huh was he not paying attention to last like ten
1035
00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:49.599
years where fifteen years where everyone kind of decided that
1036
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:52.880
was for all for the reasons you said, Joshua Ill
1037
00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:55.639
advised counterproductive and kind of hack.
1038
00:49:56.719 --> 00:50:00.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah, go watch, Go watch mcfull only do
1039
00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:06.000
his live stand up show and tell me the tear shot.
1040
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:09.599
I can't go back. And that was anybody that can
1041
00:50:09.639 --> 00:50:13.320
watch his eye quib match from Royal Rumble was at
1042
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:17.159
ninety nine or two thousand when he had his hands
1043
00:50:17.159 --> 00:50:18.239
handcuffed behind.
1044
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:19.920
His back and took all those chairs.
1045
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:24.960
I never want to see anything like that ever again
1046
00:50:25.639 --> 00:50:29.519
on my screen. And you know, obviously that's an exaggeration.
1047
00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:34.119
We're not doing that in wrestling now. But any of it,
1048
00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:36.760
any of it just isn't worth it. But I'll get
1049
00:50:36.760 --> 00:50:37.639
off that subject.
1050
00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:41.719
I was critical of it at the time it happened.
1051
00:50:41.719 --> 00:50:44.679
This is not some twenty twenty high sight thing. I
1052
00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:47.480
really really really spoke out against this in the newsletter
1053
00:50:47.559 --> 00:50:50.599
pre internet, and then you know, we launched the website.
1054
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:53.880
It was just like the torch as our approach to
1055
00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:56.920
this has not been to just in wrestlers we trust
1056
00:50:57.000 --> 00:50:59.880
or in promoters we trust. You know, we tried to
1057
00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:02.519
talk some sanity into this from a very early point,
1058
00:51:02.599 --> 00:51:06.000
and you know, you know, Mick, Mick knows that that
1059
00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:08.360
was wrong. You know, but at the time you get
1060
00:51:08.360 --> 00:51:11.679
wrapped up in sacrificing and I don't know anyway go
1061
00:51:11.719 --> 00:51:13.679
ahead at him. I know you wanted to change toppings.
1062
00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:18.320
Yeah, for the most part, the rest of the show
1063
00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:21.800
was just it was a standard Dynamite. I thought the
1064
00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:25.079
Bucks match was a standard Bucks match, which is a
1065
00:51:25.119 --> 00:51:27.639
good tag match with a lot of high spots, a
1066
00:51:27.639 --> 00:51:33.079
lot of unnecessary kickouts. Uh, I'm trying to think of
1067
00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:39.519
anything that really like blew me away like that was great.
1068
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:44.800
It just all kind of ran together to me. But yeah,
1069
00:51:44.920 --> 00:51:47.400
that was all I wanted to call in about that
1070
00:51:47.480 --> 00:51:50.360
last time. I've been wanting to call in for a while.
1071
00:51:50.599 --> 00:51:53.079
I uh finally figured out how to get to the
1072
00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:56.559
link on the website, and I playing on calling him
1073
00:51:56.559 --> 00:52:02.679
more often. I know Zach, Zach always gives gives me flack.
1074
00:52:03.440 --> 00:52:07.960
I'm in a discord with him and Josh. You know,
1075
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:11.719
he goes he thinks that I hate AW. I don't
1076
00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:15.280
hate AW. I if I didn't like it, I wouldn't
1077
00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:15.719
watch it.
1078
00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:19.039
Zach case AW because he's an apologist who has for
1079
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:22.000
years advocated for them to keep doing things that are
1080
00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:23.960
costing them viewers. So if anyone hates them, it's the
1081
00:52:23.960 --> 00:52:26.280
person who apologizes for every bad thing that they obviously
1082
00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:28.679
shouldn't be doing and is part of the support group
1083
00:52:28.679 --> 00:52:30.760
that enables Tony Kan keep making the same mistakes.
1084
00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:33.400
I brought it up in our discord earlier, and this
1085
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:35.440
was what I said, and Josh thought it was a
1086
00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:38.239
pretty good point. I said, look at their crowd, and
1087
00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:40.480
you look at the product they put on the reason
1088
00:52:40.480 --> 00:52:41.800
their attendance is lacking.
1089
00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:44.159
They're not getting families.
1090
00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:47.719
Because it's and I'm not saying you need to have silly,
1091
00:52:47.800 --> 00:52:49.679
goofy family.
1092
00:52:49.719 --> 00:52:50.639
Hid like stuff.
1093
00:52:51.159 --> 00:52:55.519
But if you just pull back on the TV, some
1094
00:52:55.599 --> 00:52:59.199
of the ultra violent stuff made things a little more colorful.
1095
00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:03.559
Family thri You have people coming to the shows and
1096
00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:05.800
you look at all people that look like me, Josh
1097
00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:08.599
and you Wade very, you see I seen like six
1098
00:53:08.760 --> 00:53:12.000
kids because they're not bringing families. If you have a
1099
00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:16.639
family that's bringing mom, dad, two brothers, a sister, now
1100
00:53:16.719 --> 00:53:20.320
that crowd of three thousand might be six or seven thousand.
1101
00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:22.760
Then if the product really gets hot, now you get
1102
00:53:22.760 --> 00:53:27.840
to ten thousand, and now possibly your audience on television
1103
00:53:27.920 --> 00:53:30.320
goes up, and it's only going to help your business.
1104
00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:32.840
I'm not saying that for the big blowoff stuff you
1105
00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:35.280
need to do and I quip match and go that
1106
00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:38.599
extra mile on a pay per view, get it, I
1107
00:53:38.679 --> 00:53:40.880
get it. It's a book, But to do it week
1108
00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:44.400
after week. I don't need to see blood on every
1109
00:53:44.440 --> 00:53:46.199
single episode of Dynamite.
1110
00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:48.079
I just don't no.
1111
00:53:48.079 --> 00:53:50.920
No, all good points I think aw, you could be
1112
00:53:51.079 --> 00:53:53.760
very successful at a higher level than they are and
1113
00:53:53.800 --> 00:53:57.199
completely disregard ever doing anything to attract families and kids.
1114
00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:02.159
That said, because I'm my, I don't think there's one
1115
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:04.320
way to at bigger crowds is well, let's let's have
1116
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:06.960
family friendly content across the board, except on pay per
1117
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:09.719
green main events. That is an approach they could take.
1118
00:54:09.800 --> 00:54:12.159
And Adam, everything you said, what would happen? But I
1119
00:54:12.199 --> 00:54:14.360
want to point out you could just do a better
1120
00:54:14.480 --> 00:54:17.519
job for a product that is absolutely not meant for
1121
00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:20.920
kids and draw six and eight to nine and eleven
1122
00:54:20.920 --> 00:54:24.880
thousand people by being a true contrast what Www does
1123
00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:29.039
of true across the board contrast? And I know, you
1124
00:54:29.079 --> 00:54:32.400
know met Nick like doing the ironic being the elite
1125
00:54:32.440 --> 00:54:34.400
stuff and oh we're broke and let's do a little
1126
00:54:34.480 --> 00:54:37.079
sketch comedy that that clearly isn't you know, they're not.
1127
00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:39.199
No one believes he's really blowing his money at the casino.
1128
00:54:39.360 --> 00:54:42.079
It's like, but it's it's it's it's funny, it's fun
1129
00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:44.599
and we're gonna ham it up. That's that's their approach.
1130
00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:47.320
You can do that. But then if you do that,
1131
00:54:47.719 --> 00:54:50.639
I think you should also do it in a way
1132
00:54:50.679 --> 00:54:52.119
where you have other things on the show that attract
1133
00:54:52.159 --> 00:54:53.880
families and you cut back on stuff that turns them
1134
00:54:53.920 --> 00:54:57.639
off or don't do that at all, including what the
1135
00:54:57.679 --> 00:54:59.440
Bucks sort of want to do, you know, let that
1136
00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:03.079
be on being the elite or something, but then like
1137
00:55:03.239 --> 00:55:06.079
just do a better job of being a true alternative
1138
00:55:06.119 --> 00:55:08.920
tow and they're kind of been this middle zone if
1139
00:55:08.920 --> 00:55:10.400
we want to be all things tall people, but we're
1140
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:12.599
also not going to execute any of it all that well,
1141
00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:15.639
except boy, do we have the most five star matches.
1142
00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:18.079
It's like, where's that a getting yet? And we bring
1143
00:55:18.159 --> 00:55:20.119
in the most international names and people have no emotional
1144
00:55:20.199 --> 00:55:22.800
attachment to except for four percent or twelve percent watching.
1145
00:55:23.159 --> 00:55:25.800
But boy, we honor the whole world of wrestling, and
1146
00:55:25.840 --> 00:55:27.239
that makes it caliber happy.
1147
00:55:28.159 --> 00:55:28.320
You know.
1148
00:55:28.360 --> 00:55:30.280
It's like I'm not against that, but they could do
1149
00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:32.920
a much better job introducing those wrestlers, making them accessible,
1150
00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:35.159
getting people to care about them. You know, Olympia head
1151
00:55:35.199 --> 00:55:38.239
of Fignette. It was nice, but I have no emotional
1152
00:55:38.280 --> 00:55:40.840
reaction to it, Like I don't. I'm not rooting for
1153
00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:43.840
her against her. She just you know, set a couple
1154
00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:47.119
of cliches. She looks muscular, but like it doesn't. It
1155
00:55:47.119 --> 00:55:49.239
doesn't seem to cross Aw's mind that the goal isn't
1156
00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:53.320
to show somebody in a cool outfit talking generically about
1157
00:55:53.360 --> 00:55:56.880
where they're from and looking like they're muscular or whatever.
1158
00:55:57.119 --> 00:55:59.760
Like the end goal of any promos to elicit in
1159
00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:02.360
a moment from the people who are the target audience.
1160
00:56:03.039 --> 00:56:05.159
And it doesn't. It's like it generally doesn't.
1161
00:56:05.159 --> 00:56:05.360
Think.
1162
00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:08.159
It doesn't seem like that has crossed the mind of
1163
00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:11.360
Tony Kahan, that the goal of wrestling when you introduce
1164
00:56:11.400 --> 00:56:13.559
a character is to get an emotional reaction, to make
1165
00:56:13.639 --> 00:56:16.480
people want to see them and root for against them,
1166
00:56:17.559 --> 00:56:20.920
And he doesn't. It's like that's that doesn't happen, you know.
1167
00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:23.760
I mean, there's a Techlost promo. It makes me think Christandler,
1168
00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:25.280
and that's the whole other thing. I don't think of her.
1169
00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:26.800
I think she might be an alien because that looked
1170
00:56:26.800 --> 00:56:32.320
like an alien pretending to be a human. Oh yeah,
1171
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:38.719
all right, a couple things. One, let's see, I'm on
1172
00:56:38.760 --> 00:56:40.840
the wrong I gotta move this track bed so I
1173
00:56:40.840 --> 00:56:42.599
stop touching it because it's not plug in. I'm just
1174
00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:44.400
gonna throw it off to the side here and touch
1175
00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:48.599
my laptop here. Derek Mitchell says it's good to see
1176
00:56:48.599 --> 00:56:54.800
Adam on video. Mike Good says, enjoy Adam taking shots
1177
00:56:54.800 --> 00:56:58.280
at ZAC and chat, but even more enjoyable on video.
1178
00:56:58.840 --> 00:57:01.239
Uh so that's fun. We had a beer bottle debate,
1179
00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:03.840
and I would like to say it was solved in
1180
00:57:03.920 --> 00:57:06.599
the chat. It's always good to see when we can agree.
1181
00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:10.000
Derek Durell freemanutes, excuse me, says yes, he got hit
1182
00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:14.159
in the head with a beer bottle, and picking c
1183
00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:15.760
J says it was a beer bottle. I thought they
1184
00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:21.679
would use a stunt bottle and let's see, and Zach says, yeah,
1185
00:57:21.679 --> 00:57:23.519
Adams undresent correct, it was a beer bottle. It didn't
1186
00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:25.000
break because he hit him with the bottom of it.
1187
00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:29.159
But and then, uh, Derek Mitchell said, I'm rewatching it
1188
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:31.199
and he hit Joe at the top of a microphone
1189
00:57:31.239 --> 00:57:34.920
out of bear bottle. Oh no, no, no, I was
1190
00:57:34.960 --> 00:57:36.800
being sarcastic. We didn't. I mean I think we did,
1191
00:57:36.840 --> 00:57:38.480
because it's like three to one from the from the
1192
00:57:38.519 --> 00:57:40.800
post I've seen. So Derek, I think you need to
1193
00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:42.800
rewatch it again. And are you gonna hold your ground
1194
00:57:42.840 --> 00:57:45.119
here or are you going to agree with everybody else?
1195
00:57:45.119 --> 00:57:52.320
Who's who's quite so pretty observant. Yeah, I have it
1196
00:57:52.440 --> 00:57:55.639
on DVR. I'm gonna I'm going to recheck it out
1197
00:57:55.639 --> 00:57:56.400
and follows wrong.
1198
00:57:57.119 --> 00:57:57.920
My apologies.
1199
00:57:57.960 --> 00:58:00.920
Everybody thinks you're everybody, but Derek thinks you're right, so
1200
00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:04.079
I'm going with that. I wish DirecTV after six damn
1201
00:58:04.119 --> 00:58:07.559
years would extend the auto extension to the actual length
1202
00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:09.639
of the overrum instead of cutting it off two minutes
1203
00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:11.800
before the show ends. Every week on DVR. I mean,
1204
00:58:11.800 --> 00:58:13.679
it's available on demand, but you got to wait hours
1205
00:58:13.679 --> 00:58:17.039
for that, so right, and I could record the show
1206
00:58:17.079 --> 00:58:20.280
after it the prank show, but if it's a rerun
1207
00:58:20.320 --> 00:58:22.360
then it won't record because it only records first.
1208
00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:29.920
I don't know anyway they dragged up that last thing needs.
1209
00:58:29.719 --> 00:58:34.920
To be So that's yes, exactly option yep. Oh and
1210
00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:37.239
someone said you in the chat earlier, said Adam, you
1211
00:58:37.239 --> 00:58:40.599
sound like Kevin Nash, and I totally disagree. You absolutely
1212
00:58:40.639 --> 00:58:42.199
sound like brock Lesner. Do you know that?
1213
00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:45.360
No nobody's ever told me I sound like brock Lesner.
1214
00:58:46.880 --> 00:58:48.199
That was brock Lesner right there.
1215
00:58:49.760 --> 00:58:50.199
I heard it.
1216
00:58:50.559 --> 00:58:54.840
I hear it every you you are, I am standing
1217
00:58:54.880 --> 00:58:58.519
by that chat. Come out help me out here, Adam. Kids,
1218
00:58:58.559 --> 00:59:01.639
and Adam, do you do you sound like brock Lesner?
1219
00:59:02.280 --> 00:59:02.760
No, I don't know.
1220
00:59:02.800 --> 00:59:05.400
Do I sound like brock Lesner? Has told me I
1221
00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:06.800
sound like brock love you sound.
1222
00:59:06.840 --> 00:59:09.480
You could impersonate him on the phone, and I would
1223
00:59:09.480 --> 00:59:11.039
totally think he was calling me to chew me out
1224
00:59:11.039 --> 00:59:11.360
for something.
1225
00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:15.719
I said, I think I'm a much nicer guy than
1226
00:59:15.800 --> 00:59:16.519
brock Lesner.
1227
00:59:17.280 --> 00:59:21.360
But I'm not not here, and I'm but em brock
1228
00:59:21.480 --> 00:59:22.440
size big.
1229
00:59:22.679 --> 00:59:26.840
Yep, all right, So uh Herm Hermi's a j one.
1230
00:59:26.920 --> 00:59:30.280
I don't I'm not sure, says definitely Lesner. In the chat,
1231
00:59:30.280 --> 00:59:33.599
Derek Mitchell says, you sound just like brock Lesner. Hermie said, yeah,
1232
00:59:33.599 --> 00:59:39.519
it's a Midwestern accent. Zax, Why did you insult Adam
1233
00:59:39.519 --> 00:59:41.280
by comparing him to that creep? I didn't compare him
1234
00:59:41.280 --> 00:59:42.840
to him. I city sounds like him. You can don't
1235
00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:45.119
a lot of people sound alike who are not exactly
1236
00:59:45.199 --> 00:59:48.440
the same person in terms of their traits. But he
1237
00:59:48.519 --> 00:59:50.960
goes sadly, You're right, though, Why are you insulting him
1238
00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:51.320
like that?
1239
00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:51.559
Why?
1240
00:59:51.880 --> 00:59:53.280
Zach, why are you comparing him to a creep?
1241
00:59:53.559 --> 00:59:53.800
Sack?
1242
00:59:53.960 --> 00:59:56.440
I'm gonna get I'm gonna get in their plane I'm
1243
00:59:56.480 --> 00:59:57.119
gonna come down.
1244
00:59:57.280 --> 00:59:58.400
I'm coming to Texas.
1245
00:59:59.239 --> 01:00:01.960
Yes, all right, it's been an adventure, Adam, please do
1246
01:00:02.039 --> 01:00:02.400
call again.
1247
01:00:02.920 --> 01:00:05.440
Well, thank you so much for having me, josh he
1248
01:00:05.559 --> 01:00:06.320
brought the good work.
1249
01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:08.800
You two way to love everything. Everybody go vip.
1250
01:00:09.559 --> 01:00:15.119
Thanks And I'm gonna actually have you endorse my podcast
1251
01:00:15.280 --> 01:00:18.119
on a commercial. And we won't say it's brock Lesnar
1252
01:00:18.159 --> 01:00:20.159
because we don't get in trouble. But people think it's
1253
01:00:20.159 --> 01:00:22.000
Brock endorsing our show.
1254
01:00:23.079 --> 01:00:24.639
I'll do it, and you just let me know when
1255
01:00:24.639 --> 01:00:24.920
to do it.
1256
01:00:24.960 --> 01:00:25.280
I'll do it.
1257
01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:27.559
Oh my god, you sound so much like him. All right, thanks, thanks,
1258
01:00:27.639 --> 01:00:30.280
I appreciate it. All right, guys, I take it. Ah,
1259
01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:32.679
let's bring Red Dog onto the show. Red Dog. Thanks
1260
01:00:32.719 --> 01:00:34.719
for your patience, Thanks for waiting. What's up?
1261
01:00:34.760 --> 01:00:37.360
Bye? I had a.
1262
01:00:38.960 --> 01:00:41.000
Good to talk to you, way good to talk to you,
1263
01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:47.199
Joshua for the first time. And this has been a
1264
01:00:47.599 --> 01:00:51.039
really weird podcast and like a weird.
1265
01:00:51.599 --> 01:00:54.760
So soome just trying to wrap it all in.
1266
01:00:56.440 --> 01:01:01.639
But but I will say I've been to a collision
1267
01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:06.280
as a correspondent for Wade Before a long time ago
1268
01:01:06.360 --> 01:01:11.119
in Seattle at the Climate Pledge Arena. I think that
1269
01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:15.599
only last had like three Saturdays or so or whatever.
1270
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:21.880
But yeah, but yeah, and I mean even back then,
1271
01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:24.400
I mean that was that was a bit ago, and
1272
01:01:25.599 --> 01:01:31.960
it was you watch an hour of Dark Matches and
1273
01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:35.199
then you see two hours of Collision and then there's
1274
01:01:35.239 --> 01:01:37.719
two hours of Ring of Honor after that.
1275
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:40.320
And I was talking to Wade.
1276
01:01:41.320 --> 01:01:47.800
It was by like the Krakens, like general Manager's office
1277
01:01:47.960 --> 01:01:51.239
or whatever, and then I came back and Ring of
1278
01:01:51.239 --> 01:01:52.480
Honor are still going on.
1279
01:01:52.639 --> 01:01:54.559
I was like, no one wants.
1280
01:01:54.320 --> 01:01:57.559
To see this, like this is crazy.
1281
01:01:57.639 --> 01:02:04.159
But anyways, so yeah, there are more negatives that have
1282
01:02:04.239 --> 01:02:06.239
come out of Ring of Honor than positives based on
1283
01:02:06.280 --> 01:02:09.800
the way that it's been that it's existed under Tony
1284
01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:11.599
Kah's banner of ownership or whatever.
1285
01:02:11.639 --> 01:02:13.840
And one of them is just driving people away from
1286
01:02:13.880 --> 01:02:16.760
wanting to go to shows because suddenly there's this brand,
1287
01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:20.559
this weird ghost brand that you know. Now we're getting
1288
01:02:20.559 --> 01:02:23.320
a title match on Collision, and it's like it's never
1289
01:02:23.360 --> 01:02:26.599
been properly introduced to the proper dynamite audience. What is it?
1290
01:02:26.599 --> 01:02:28.480
What is it stand for? How do we get it?
1291
01:02:30.440 --> 01:02:32.880
I mean, Tony just thinks, well, if people could look
1292
01:02:32.920 --> 01:02:34.360
it up, if they want I mean they don't. They
1293
01:02:34.400 --> 01:02:36.519
plug every few months, they plug a pay per view,
1294
01:02:36.559 --> 01:02:40.920
but like there's no in cannon of AW, an explanation
1295
01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:43.480
for why it's this other brand that exists and why
1296
01:02:43.519 --> 01:02:46.559
it's mostly AW wrestlers sometimes who are on both shows,
1297
01:02:46.559 --> 01:02:49.000
sometimes not. Sometimes they carry the belts onto their show,
1298
01:02:49.039 --> 01:02:52.280
sometimes they don't. Sometimes it's defended on TV, but not.
1299
01:02:52.519 --> 01:02:53.840
I don't know how often it's ever been on pay
1300
01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:55.400
per views it's been brought out to the ring. Has
1301
01:02:55.400 --> 01:02:58.639
there been a ROH proper title match on an AW
1302
01:02:58.760 --> 01:03:01.800
pay per view? Know right off, I know they do
1303
01:03:01.840 --> 01:03:04.039
it on TV, but it's not even that important. But
1304
01:03:04.039 --> 01:03:07.039
it's like there's there's no definition of what it is,
1305
01:03:07.079 --> 01:03:09.880
why it exists, or anything, and that it bugs me.
1306
01:03:09.920 --> 01:03:11.239
I try not to let it bug me too much,
1307
01:03:11.239 --> 01:03:13.320
because you know, some things that bugged me don't matter
1308
01:03:13.320 --> 01:03:15.280
that much. But it just seems like there should be
1309
01:03:15.320 --> 01:03:18.079
an explanation for it. And it just when you go
1310
01:03:18.119 --> 01:03:20.280
to a live event and suddenly you're after the peak
1311
01:03:20.320 --> 01:03:21.960
moment to the main event of a w with other
1312
01:03:22.000 --> 01:03:25.719
main aventries, you start watching two hours of a building
1313
01:03:25.760 --> 01:03:28.679
that's now half as full as it was with ROH
1314
01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:31.480
banners on the ring and wrestlers and storylines you're not following.
1315
01:03:31.519 --> 01:03:34.480
I mean, it's weird. It it's not it's not satisfying.
1316
01:03:34.480 --> 01:03:37.039
It's like watching an hour and a half of credits
1317
01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:38.800
after a really good movie and you're like, should I
1318
01:03:38.800 --> 01:03:41.679
stay or should I go? Anyway?
1319
01:03:42.039 --> 01:03:42.559
It's right.
1320
01:03:42.599 --> 01:03:45.159
Like if you go to a concert and the headliner
1321
01:03:45.239 --> 01:03:47.079
goes on and then some opening vent.
1322
01:03:47.039 --> 01:03:48.679
You never heard on going them afterwards?
1323
01:03:48.760 --> 01:03:51.800
Well yeah, no, everybody walks out and it's empty and bad.
1324
01:03:52.440 --> 01:03:53.920
Yeah, And if you walk out, you're like, but am
1325
01:03:53.920 --> 01:03:56.280
I missing something? Like there's a you just you want
1326
01:03:56.280 --> 01:03:58.280
to have a sense of like, all right, that was
1327
01:03:58.280 --> 01:04:00.480
a peak moment. Now we got it, Now we're leaving.
1328
01:04:00.519 --> 01:04:03.159
And I mean there's other ways to go about it.
1329
01:04:03.159 --> 01:04:05.199
It's not a it's not perfect. I mean I get
1330
01:04:05.320 --> 01:04:08.280
it's a challenge. But he could just always take one
1331
01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:10.360
hour Ring of Honor before Dynamite, Always take one hour
1332
01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:12.440
before Collision. Have it be the warm up matches, start
1333
01:04:12.480 --> 01:04:15.039
the shows early, and then after Dynamite goes off the air.
1334
01:04:15.039 --> 01:04:16.599
I've been an advocate all along. They should have been
1335
01:04:16.599 --> 01:04:18.559
doing dark matches with their top stars. They got paid
1336
01:04:18.559 --> 01:04:20.880
a lot of money. Tony should have insisted more often
1337
01:04:20.880 --> 01:04:22.159
than not, even if they didn't have a match of
1338
01:04:22.199 --> 01:04:24.039
promo on TV, that there would be a match that
1339
01:04:24.039 --> 01:04:26.239
they could advertise that would be exclusive people live in
1340
01:04:26.239 --> 01:04:28.480
the building. WWF did this for years after their squash
1341
01:04:28.480 --> 01:04:31.440
match tapings, they'd advertised two or three matches with big names.
1342
01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:33.960
Reward people for going they see something that couldn't see
1343
01:04:33.960 --> 01:04:38.039
at home. It helps sell tickets and then you're guaranteed
1344
01:04:38.719 --> 01:04:41.119
to see some top stars because when you buy aw tickets,
1345
01:04:41.159 --> 01:04:44.079
people have figured out over six years, I might not
1346
01:04:44.199 --> 01:04:46.320
see my favorite. It's like a fifty to fifty chance
1347
01:04:46.360 --> 01:04:48.480
you see your favorite. There's no rhyme or reason to
1348
01:04:48.639 --> 01:04:52.000
who when you see top stars. And if they solidly
1349
01:04:52.039 --> 01:04:54.360
advertised dark matches with top stars, I think it would
1350
01:04:54.360 --> 01:04:56.320
help them. But you know, these are mistakes that have
1351
01:04:56.320 --> 01:04:59.880
been happening for six six plus years, so they're paying
1352
01:04:59.880 --> 01:05:01.480
a price. It's going to be hard to recover from it.
1353
01:05:01.639 --> 01:05:07.679
But a ring abotar's part of that problem.
1354
01:05:07.719 --> 01:05:11.239
I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClelland we host Wrestling
1355
01:05:11.280 --> 01:05:13.599
Coast to Coast, where we scour the wrestling scene to
1356
01:05:13.599 --> 01:05:15.679
find the best wrestling from the smallest places.
1357
01:05:15.920 --> 01:05:18.760
There are thousands of matches happening every week, so wrestling
1358
01:05:18.800 --> 01:05:20.960
coast to coast is here to discover the men and
1359
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:23.480
women who could be big time stars in a few years.
1360
01:05:23.719 --> 01:05:25.760
There are plenty of podcasts to voters a w W
1361
01:05:25.960 --> 01:05:28.960
and AW, but what's happening in the armories and gymnasiums
1362
01:05:29.039 --> 01:05:31.039
local wrestling hotspots around the country.
1363
01:05:31.400 --> 01:05:33.280
We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
1364
01:05:33.320 --> 01:05:35.559
gyms of the wrestling world. Plus, you can hear Chris
1365
01:05:35.599 --> 01:05:37.679
complain about bad referees.
1366
01:05:37.440 --> 01:05:39.360
And justin bemoaning dog pole fins.
1367
01:05:39.519 --> 01:05:41.960
Don't forget my feudal search to see a blue Thunderbomb
1368
01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:42.559
win a match.
1369
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:44.039
How can I like?
1370
01:05:44.119 --> 01:05:46.719
The name says we cover the hottest independent promotions from
1371
01:05:46.760 --> 01:05:50.039
around the country, so such as Prestige Action, West Coast,
1372
01:05:50.039 --> 01:05:52.159
Pro Revolver, and Beyond Wrestling.
1373
01:05:52.400 --> 01:05:54.880
Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling.
1374
01:05:55.039 --> 01:05:57.440
No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Worcester, Oh right.
1375
01:05:57.559 --> 01:06:00.000
Our show's part of the PW Toys Daily Cast line up.
1376
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:03.639
It typically drops on Thursdays, So PW Torch your podcast
1377
01:06:03.679 --> 01:06:07.159
app subscribed to the PW Torch Daily Cast or stream
1378
01:06:07.199 --> 01:06:10.360
our shows directly from PW touch dot com. Find full
1379
01:06:10.440 --> 01:06:20.960
details on the PW Torchdailycast lineup at pwtrchdailycast dot com.
1380
01:06:21.320 --> 01:06:22.159
Anyway, go ahead, we do.
1381
01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:31.119
Well, Yeah, I'm I mean, so I'm gonna move on
1382
01:06:31.199 --> 01:06:35.280
from that, but like, uh, I mean, you talked a
1383
01:06:35.280 --> 01:06:39.400
lot about the last segment, but I'm gonna just put
1384
01:06:39.440 --> 01:06:42.360
in my two cents, Like it felt like a segment
1385
01:06:42.880 --> 01:06:49.079
like from WCW from like nineteen ninety five, like I
1386
01:06:49.119 --> 01:06:51.920
was waiting for the Dungeon Doom to come out, like
1387
01:06:52.000 --> 01:06:58.800
it was just like really bad and like not like
1388
01:06:58.880 --> 01:07:02.599
I don't understand how you can like even like say
1389
01:07:02.800 --> 01:07:09.719
this could be good on any level. And here's the thing,
1390
01:07:09.920 --> 01:07:14.480
Like I live in New Jersey and New New York's
1391
01:07:14.639 --> 01:07:18.559
not too far from me, but like I'm like I
1392
01:07:18.599 --> 01:07:20.360
don't even know if I want to go to this
1393
01:07:20.480 --> 01:07:24.719
full Gear show, Like I mean, and this is the
1394
01:07:24.760 --> 01:07:28.079
first time where like a pay per view has been
1395
01:07:28.559 --> 01:07:31.199
like close to me where I can just go and
1396
01:07:32.199 --> 01:07:34.760
like yeah, yeah, of course I'm gonna go.
1397
01:07:35.360 --> 01:07:36.119
But it's just like.
1398
01:07:37.639 --> 01:07:42.599
That segment and like I just like, what do you
1399
01:07:42.639 --> 01:07:48.760
think about like Samoa Joe and and hang Man again,
1400
01:07:49.079 --> 01:07:50.760
Like I mean, that's really.
1401
01:07:50.519 --> 01:07:56.079
Not that seriously, like we're so distracted by mascot outfits
1402
01:07:56.199 --> 01:07:58.159
and and you know, my whole thing of like to
1403
01:07:58.360 --> 01:08:02.519
what ends? To what ends is are? There's two questions
1404
01:08:02.519 --> 01:08:06.320
that I think Booker should ask themselves. What's the presupposition?
1405
01:08:06.440 --> 01:08:09.559
And to what ends our wrestlers? What to what ends
1406
01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:13.760
are motivating these wrestlers? Like, so one the presupposition, why
1407
01:08:13.840 --> 01:08:15.599
is there a contract signing when the neever is after
1408
01:08:15.639 --> 01:08:19.279
this match? Why are their mascots coming out? Like explain
1409
01:08:19.319 --> 01:08:22.000
a little bit more, like just go We just think
1410
01:08:22.039 --> 01:08:24.239
could be funny, Like it makes no sense you having
1411
01:08:24.279 --> 01:08:26.359
a contract signing with when they're just hanging out in
1412
01:08:26.399 --> 01:08:28.720
the background, But like why are they part of this?
1413
01:08:29.000 --> 01:08:32.479
It feels a little too important to have cartoon figures
1414
01:08:32.479 --> 01:08:38.000
and whatever. And then why isn't Hangman there? So you
1415
01:08:38.039 --> 01:08:40.479
don't have the presupposition to explain why it's happening? And
1416
01:08:40.520 --> 01:08:43.319
then Hangman you have to go to what ends? Did
1417
01:08:43.359 --> 01:08:45.640
he plot this out with Tony Shavani ahead of time
1418
01:08:45.840 --> 01:08:47.680
when he could have just shown off the contract signing
1419
01:08:48.520 --> 01:08:52.479
and then attack Joe? And why is he attacking Joe?
1420
01:08:53.880 --> 01:08:55.840
He gets them in the ring, he's got a match
1421
01:08:55.880 --> 01:09:00.840
with him, like like in so many of these explanations
1422
01:09:00.960 --> 01:09:04.399
are well because fans like to see fights and we
1423
01:09:04.479 --> 01:09:06.199
want to build up a fight. Well, right, but you
1424
01:09:06.239 --> 01:09:07.800
have to put it through the filter of can we
1425
01:09:08.800 --> 01:09:10.960
make have it make sense because people are acting in
1426
01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:14.039
a logical fashion, and I like, there are ways, there's
1427
01:09:14.119 --> 01:09:17.000
always almost there's I'll say always, not almost, I won't
1428
01:09:17.039 --> 01:09:22.079
even qualify it. There's always a way to make things
1429
01:09:22.119 --> 01:09:26.000
make more sense than to have things make more sense
1430
01:09:26.000 --> 01:09:27.600
than the first idea that comes to mind. That's sort
1431
01:09:27.640 --> 01:09:30.079
of a first draft and half assed, and Zach goes, well,
1432
01:09:30.119 --> 01:09:32.920
hang Man at checked him because Joe blindsided him, So
1433
01:09:33.039 --> 01:09:36.600
Hayman can blindside Joe, like I mean, there's a contract
1434
01:09:36.600 --> 01:09:38.880
sign I mean, or Hangman can be a bigger man
1435
01:09:38.960 --> 01:09:40.640
than Joe and not blindside him and beat him in
1436
01:09:40.640 --> 01:09:42.359
the ring when the bell rings that full gear like,
1437
01:09:43.039 --> 01:09:47.720
I just this was an elaborate ruse that clearly was
1438
01:09:47.760 --> 01:09:51.920
done to be quote entertaining and funny and clever. It
1439
01:09:51.960 --> 01:09:54.479
didn't really serve a purpose if this were sort of
1440
01:09:54.520 --> 01:09:58.039
real life. And I just think you you lose something
1441
01:09:58.119 --> 01:10:01.199
when your booking filter doesn't strive to have things make
1442
01:10:01.279 --> 01:10:03.720
sense and have a reason for happening if this felt
1443
01:10:03.760 --> 01:10:05.279
if it was a little more real, and then it
1444
01:10:05.359 --> 01:10:08.279
just does become you know, amateur our sketch comedy, and
1445
01:10:08.279 --> 01:10:09.560
maybe some people want to watch it, but I don't
1446
01:10:09.560 --> 01:10:11.479
think it's meant Joshua anything.
1447
01:10:11.600 --> 01:10:14.039
Dad no No.
1448
01:10:15.439 --> 01:10:19.279
Litigated the bad downside of that segment repeatedly.
1449
01:10:20.199 --> 01:10:22.520
Yeah, I know, yeah, that's fine.
1450
01:10:23.119 --> 01:10:25.520
It could have been better and it wasn't.
1451
01:10:26.159 --> 01:10:29.920
Yep, uh okay, uh go ahead, wedug what else?
1452
01:10:30.439 --> 01:10:32.439
All right, I'll go something different now.
1453
01:10:34.720 --> 01:10:39.039
So I don't care if it's Hook's choice for his
1454
01:10:39.279 --> 01:10:45.000
new current music, but it's terrible and it's it'll fitting.
1455
01:10:46.359 --> 01:10:50.520
And Aw dropped the ball on him a long time ago,
1456
01:10:50.600 --> 01:10:54.520
and he was hot, and now he just seems like
1457
01:10:54.560 --> 01:10:59.119
a hot mess, Like is there any way to rescue Hook?
1458
01:11:00.560 --> 01:11:03.199
Hook was so over a few years ago, you know whatever,
1459
01:11:03.239 --> 01:11:05.159
four years ago, and it's just like it's a dead
1460
01:11:05.159 --> 01:11:07.560
crowd now in it. It should kind of clue them in.
1461
01:11:07.640 --> 01:11:12.000
Something isn't going right here, you know, And and it's
1462
01:11:12.039 --> 01:11:13.760
just it's, you know, as Zach Barber says, it's a
1463
01:11:13.800 --> 01:11:19.039
good song, it's not a wrestling theme, and can Hook
1464
01:11:19.119 --> 01:11:20.359
be saying you know what? I thought it was?
1465
01:11:20.399 --> 01:11:20.640
Hook?
1466
01:11:20.720 --> 01:11:24.039
Maybe Hook's best promo to date. Ruddub Like earlier in
1467
01:11:24.079 --> 01:11:27.279
the show, you know, he's pulling his rolling his bags
1468
01:11:27.319 --> 01:11:29.520
into the building, and he just he talked a little
1469
01:11:29.560 --> 01:11:31.880
bit more normally. It was a little less affected in
1470
01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:34.640
his delivery. He looked at the camera and he said
1471
01:11:34.640 --> 01:11:36.359
something kind of in a straightforward right to the point
1472
01:11:36.359 --> 01:11:40.720
where that's like just more that Hook was kind of
1473
01:11:40.720 --> 01:11:43.560
like stinging the rafters. Like Sting is most over when
1474
01:11:43.600 --> 01:11:46.760
he's not talking and he's not wrestling, and he's just
1475
01:11:46.800 --> 01:11:49.239
looking cool, you know, like and and it sounds like
1476
01:11:49.239 --> 01:11:50.800
a they got Sting into a degree is because he
1477
01:11:50.880 --> 01:11:54.840
didn't succeed at the level that wrestling rewrites history. You know,
1478
01:11:54.880 --> 01:11:56.640
he had a lot of guaranteed contracts and he didn't
1479
01:11:56.680 --> 01:11:59.399
draw money and at the way that people who are
1480
01:11:59.680 --> 01:12:03.600
put in his category did. Except when he didn't talk
1481
01:12:04.159 --> 01:12:05.760
and apparently he was going through a lot of personal stuff.
1482
01:12:05.760 --> 01:12:07.560
But he boyted. He looked cool sitting in the rafters,
1483
01:12:08.199 --> 01:12:10.000
looking down at a whole thing and swinging a baseball
1484
01:12:10.000 --> 01:12:13.079
bat around. He was protected and looked cool. Hook when
1485
01:12:13.119 --> 01:12:15.560
he was most over, same thing, his arms are crossed
1486
01:12:15.760 --> 01:12:20.399
and you're just standing around looking cool and sort of distant,
1487
01:12:21.000 --> 01:12:23.560
disengaged in a way that I couldn't be bothered, and
1488
01:12:24.079 --> 01:12:28.760
it worked for him, but a lot of things went wrong,
1489
01:12:28.880 --> 01:12:31.960
including an evaluation I think rightfully, so he wasn't ready
1490
01:12:32.039 --> 01:12:34.640
to wrestle at a level that matched his how over
1491
01:12:34.680 --> 01:12:37.079
he was, and so was in that sense, it was
1492
01:12:37.119 --> 01:12:39.880
sort of unfortunate. I don't know what the answer is,
1493
01:12:40.520 --> 01:12:42.600
but I sure like tooking Joe as a tag team.
1494
01:12:43.000 --> 01:12:44.840
I thought that was an answer. It fills in some
1495
01:12:44.840 --> 01:12:50.119
of Joe's weaknesses, hooks weaknesses as a worker, and it
1496
01:12:50.199 --> 01:12:54.239
allowed them to kind of have an odd couple tag team.
1497
01:12:54.319 --> 01:12:56.960
And now it's not there anymore. Joshua, what do you think?
1498
01:12:57.920 --> 01:13:01.239
Yeah, you're right, Hok was soon over and he was just.
1499
01:13:01.560 --> 01:13:05.359
Never met that on the in the ring, and then
1500
01:13:05.399 --> 01:13:08.079
he also like never improved the fact even in this
1501
01:13:08.199 --> 01:13:11.279
match tonight, it was same stuff, like kind of bad
1502
01:13:11.279 --> 01:13:13.479
looking punches and duplexes, and that's that's it.
1503
01:13:13.560 --> 01:13:16.399
That's all he's got to always learn, it's all he does.
1504
01:13:16.960 --> 01:13:19.159
And I thought him with Joe would at least help
1505
01:13:19.239 --> 01:13:21.119
him actually should help him in the ring also, but
1506
01:13:21.159 --> 01:13:24.800
would help him personality wise, And it didn't because it
1507
01:13:24.840 --> 01:13:27.880
was cut out immediately but he's also hanging out with
1508
01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:30.680
Eddie Kingston now, which would also help him at least
1509
01:13:31.159 --> 01:13:33.560
in the charisma section, but isn't.
1510
01:13:33.920 --> 01:13:36.600
They're just not really doing anything with that pair either.
1511
01:13:38.199 --> 01:13:40.680
You get the sense Tony's not one hundred percent sure
1512
01:13:40.720 --> 01:13:42.760
he wants to push Eddie Kingston anymore. Like I mean,
1513
01:13:42.760 --> 01:13:45.439
it's just I don't have inside information on that. But like,
1514
01:13:45.800 --> 01:13:48.560
if he trusts Eddie Kingston right now and thinks he
1515
01:13:48.600 --> 01:13:50.720
can rely on him and he's going to be a
1516
01:13:50.800 --> 01:13:54.039
reliable employee and not cause issues and everything, he should
1517
01:13:54.039 --> 01:13:55.840
be doing a better job reintroducing him because he was
1518
01:13:55.880 --> 01:13:58.279
really over too. But the way that they're they're presenting
1519
01:13:58.359 --> 01:13:59.199
Eddie Kingston, it's like.
1520
01:13:59.479 --> 01:14:00.199
Oh, I don't know.
1521
01:14:00.359 --> 01:14:01.520
I mean, we kind of got to use them, but
1522
01:14:01.520 --> 01:14:03.760
we don't want to put put too much on him
1523
01:14:03.800 --> 01:14:05.960
because we I that's all comes across to me, And
1524
01:14:06.039 --> 01:14:08.239
so if that's not the real life issue, they should
1525
01:14:08.319 --> 01:14:09.439
try to get more out of him. I know he's
1526
01:14:09.439 --> 01:14:11.279
a little redne with Mark Briscoe and kind of that
1527
01:14:11.359 --> 01:14:13.800
slot on the roster and Mark kind of took it over,
1528
01:14:13.880 --> 01:14:16.520
but there's still something to be done there. And yeah,
1529
01:14:16.520 --> 01:14:18.079
they're not they're not getting the most out of that
1530
01:14:18.079 --> 01:14:18.640
pairing right.
1531
01:14:18.560 --> 01:14:20.479
Now, Joshua. Yeah, they're getting anything.
1532
01:14:20.680 --> 01:14:24.039
Yeah, Yeah, that's yeah for a short, bad match with
1533
01:14:24.119 --> 01:14:27.520
like no character development, which is the opposite of what
1534
01:14:27.560 --> 01:14:28.000
they need.
1535
01:14:28.279 --> 01:14:28.479
YEP.
1536
01:14:29.560 --> 01:14:34.279
A couple comments in the chat along along these lines, Well,
1537
01:14:34.279 --> 01:14:36.880
first Zach Zach said about hangmen, hang Man's always been
1538
01:14:36.880 --> 01:14:38.920
a hot head weight. He's going to get his lick back.
1539
01:14:40.039 --> 01:14:40.199
Yeah.
1540
01:14:40.239 --> 01:14:42.279
I mean, I'm not saying it's inconsistent, but boy, that
1541
01:14:42.399 --> 01:14:45.199
was very elaborate to try to just be able to
1542
01:14:45.239 --> 01:14:48.520
hit someone. A couple of times. Derek Mitchell says, a
1543
01:14:48.640 --> 01:14:50.680
w drop the ball on hot wrestlers like wardlow Hook,
1544
01:14:50.720 --> 01:14:53.600
the acclaimed private Party and the outrunners. What are they
1545
01:14:53.760 --> 01:14:57.000
afraid of? Those are? We could do an hour on
1546
01:14:57.119 --> 01:14:58.920
although you know, we could do an hour talking about
1547
01:14:58.920 --> 01:15:01.439
the you know, help which ones were the fault of
1548
01:15:01.479 --> 01:15:03.159
aw and which ones were just once they got a
1549
01:15:03.159 --> 01:15:04.880
little bit of a push, they were exposed as either
1550
01:15:04.920 --> 01:15:08.680
being injury prone or a one note joke, or you know,
1551
01:15:08.800 --> 01:15:11.039
in the acclaim they just got too infatuated with Billy
1552
01:15:11.039 --> 01:15:13.600
Gunn and merch money and lost sight of, you know,
1553
01:15:13.600 --> 01:15:15.640
what's really important and maybe they just I don't know,
1554
01:15:15.760 --> 01:15:17.960
so I don't want to go down that right now,
1555
01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:21.119
but there's something to all of that. Fan Blea says,
1556
01:15:21.119 --> 01:15:22.840
I thought they dropped the ball on Hook too back then,
1557
01:15:22.880 --> 01:15:24.760
But what else could they do? I couldn't push him
1558
01:15:24.760 --> 01:15:26.399
to the moon because he was green. I guess they
1559
01:15:26.439 --> 01:15:29.520
could have just given him the Goldberg treatment. He wasn't
1560
01:15:29.520 --> 01:15:32.319
Goldberg either, though. He's a cool, undersized dude and you know,
1561
01:15:32.439 --> 01:15:35.720
like shiny shorts and without a ton of muscles and
1562
01:15:35.760 --> 01:15:40.000
not particularly tall, who's just this, you know whatever.
1563
01:15:40.119 --> 01:15:41.720
So I.
1564
01:15:43.560 --> 01:15:45.199
Don't think what they did was the right thing, but
1565
01:15:45.239 --> 01:15:48.600
I don't think there's an obvious other path. Joshua, do
1566
01:15:48.680 --> 01:15:50.560
you think there was? What would you have done differently
1567
01:15:51.640 --> 01:15:54.159
to take better advantage of Hook that isn't in Lalla
1568
01:15:54.279 --> 01:15:56.119
land where he's an actual good worker and good promo.
1569
01:15:57.359 --> 01:15:57.520
Yeah?
1570
01:15:57.600 --> 01:15:59.560
No, I think sticking to him in a tag team
1571
01:15:59.680 --> 01:16:01.880
with a veteran who is a good worker and has
1572
01:16:01.880 --> 01:16:04.439
a personality was the right move. They just didn't actually
1573
01:16:04.439 --> 01:16:06.319
do anything with it, or snip would long enough to
1574
01:16:06.359 --> 01:16:09.199
see if that worked. But yeah, the Goldburg treatment obviously
1575
01:16:09.199 --> 01:16:12.680
would it worked. He's like, he's a young kid and
1576
01:16:12.760 --> 01:16:17.039
not like ripped or big or anything like that. But again,
1577
01:16:18.000 --> 01:16:19.600
a couple of things may have worked, but I know
1578
01:16:19.640 --> 01:16:22.520
for sure what they did do did not work.
1579
01:16:22.279 --> 01:16:25.039
Hook has a physique, shirtless on a beach in LA.
1580
01:16:25.159 --> 01:16:26.680
He's gonna get people looking him go and that guy
1581
01:16:26.680 --> 01:16:30.239
goes to the gym. He's got some muscles. He's in
1582
01:16:30.319 --> 01:16:32.960
great shape in a wrestling scenario.
1583
01:16:33.520 --> 01:16:33.680
You know.
1584
01:16:33.680 --> 01:16:36.239
It's a little maybe maybe slightly more muscular than current
1585
01:16:36.319 --> 01:16:39.800
Danny Garcia, more than Adam Cole. But I mean, yeah,
1586
01:16:39.840 --> 01:16:41.479
I mean it's just he doesn't if you don't have
1587
01:16:41.560 --> 01:16:42.920
something else going for you to make up for the
1588
01:16:42.920 --> 01:16:44.520
fact that you're not really tall and you're not like
1589
01:16:44.640 --> 01:16:48.319
thickly muscular, if you're not Brian Danielson in the ring,
1590
01:16:48.439 --> 01:16:50.560
you know, or Nigel McGinnis. So you know, I mean
1591
01:16:50.560 --> 01:16:53.520
you've got to have something. And he was cool until
1592
01:16:53.720 --> 01:16:56.960
he started doing more. And yeah, I'm sympathetic to them.
1593
01:16:57.159 --> 01:16:59.359
Pickens in the chat goes jungle. Hook was fun too.
1594
01:16:59.600 --> 01:17:02.319
That's the thing he's done all these all these things.
1595
01:17:03.479 --> 01:17:07.399
Adam Kid says Wardlow is a big What if Zach
1596
01:17:07.439 --> 01:17:09.279
says Worlow keeps getting hurt, I take him off that
1597
01:17:09.359 --> 01:17:13.079
list as a fail. Yeah, I mean, I'm not I'm
1598
01:17:13.159 --> 01:17:17.079
not convinced Wardlow was underutilized. I think he was. He
1599
01:17:17.159 --> 01:17:19.239
was a people had an idea that he might be something.
1600
01:17:19.279 --> 01:17:22.680
And you know, I don't want to be like too blunt,
1601
01:17:22.720 --> 01:17:26.399
but if your priority is packing on the most muscle possible,
1602
01:17:27.600 --> 01:17:29.479
your body's going to give out when you do feats
1603
01:17:29.479 --> 01:17:31.760
of strength because your your ligaments, your tendants, your muscles
1604
01:17:31.760 --> 01:17:33.560
are gonna pop. I mean like when you actually do
1605
01:17:33.640 --> 01:17:36.600
physical things, you have cosmetic muscles that are not functional muscles.
1606
01:17:36.880 --> 01:17:39.239
That happens with Brian Cage, it happens with Wardlow, and
1607
01:17:39.239 --> 01:17:41.119
they're like, well, I'm so cosmetically big, I should be
1608
01:17:41.159 --> 01:17:42.640
able to do anything. It's like, no, you're actually more
1609
01:17:42.720 --> 01:17:46.079
vulnerable to injuries if you're pushing your body in that
1610
01:17:46.119 --> 01:17:49.159
way where it's just about cosmetics and so you know.
1611
01:17:49.359 --> 01:17:51.239
And that's one thing I didn't like about Anthony Bowenes.
1612
01:17:51.279 --> 01:17:54.720
He got needlessly muscular. It made him look shorter and stiffer,
1613
01:17:54.720 --> 01:17:57.279
and he was like the super smooth athlete who could
1614
01:17:57.279 --> 01:17:59.560
have been the next Brian Danielson, and he decided he
1615
01:17:59.640 --> 01:18:02.600
just wanted to be the most musculary could be and
1616
01:18:03.119 --> 01:18:05.119
hang out with Billy Gone and look short next to him,
1617
01:18:05.119 --> 01:18:07.920
and I don't know. It's just like they all every
1618
01:18:07.920 --> 01:18:09.800
wrestler there either made a bad decision or a bad
1619
01:18:09.800 --> 01:18:12.720
decisions made for them, or were exposed as not being ready.
1620
01:18:12.720 --> 01:18:14.199
And I don't think, I don't know that we're gonna
1621
01:18:14.199 --> 01:18:17.119
look at wardlow as as like a big what if.
1622
01:18:17.119 --> 01:18:19.279
I think we kind of know he was injury prone,
1623
01:18:19.600 --> 01:18:21.720
he wasn't that good on the mic, he wasn't the
1624
01:18:21.800 --> 01:18:22.520
next Batista.
1625
01:18:23.439 --> 01:18:23.880
I don't know.
1626
01:18:24.000 --> 01:18:27.000
I mean, I'm ready to make that call, rudeog. You
1627
01:18:27.000 --> 01:18:29.359
can follow up on that or bring up something else, Joshua.
1628
01:18:29.600 --> 01:18:31.319
Sometimes I mute you when I'm talking just because I'm
1629
01:18:31.319 --> 01:18:32.680
here in the dog in the back, like I think
1630
01:18:32.720 --> 01:18:37.159
the dog in the background. Well that's explained it. Yeah,
1631
01:18:37.239 --> 01:18:39.399
so just when you talk, just on mute and when
1632
01:18:39.439 --> 01:18:41.119
you are not talking to just meet again. Then we
1633
01:18:41.159 --> 01:18:43.760
won't get as much wrestling in the background. Rude dog,
1634
01:18:43.800 --> 01:18:45.239
what's up with you? What are you thinking?
1635
01:18:46.479 --> 01:18:47.079
Uh?
1636
01:18:47.199 --> 01:18:47.960
Yeah, I don't know.
1637
01:18:51.399 --> 01:18:55.079
I think they dropped the ball with a hook and
1638
01:18:55.680 --> 01:18:59.600
but not sure where they could have made it better.
1639
01:19:00.199 --> 01:19:04.239
And also like his random tattoos that keep coming up
1640
01:19:05.000 --> 01:19:10.159
like our nonsensorical and just like look weird and it's
1641
01:19:10.239 --> 01:19:13.600
just like okay, Like it's almost getting to the point
1642
01:19:13.600 --> 01:19:16.760
where it's like, all right, let's move on from this guy,
1643
01:19:16.840 --> 01:19:18.720
which is sad because he had a lot of the
1644
01:19:18.760 --> 01:19:19.279
time shold.
1645
01:19:21.079 --> 01:19:24.920
Anyways, we're about to go to a commercial break. Why
1646
01:19:24.960 --> 01:19:27.600
listen to commercial breaks when you can go vip and
1647
01:19:27.680 --> 01:19:30.359
experience our shows with the ads and plugs removed. PW
1648
01:19:30.399 --> 01:19:34.279
Torch dot com slash go vip. That's PW torch dot
1649
01:19:34.279 --> 01:19:37.119
com slash go vip for full details, or go to
1650
01:19:37.159 --> 01:19:41.079
Patreon Patreon dot com slash PW Torch VIP rate start
1651
01:19:41.079 --> 01:19:43.239
as low as four dollars in ninety nine cents to
1652
01:19:43.279 --> 01:19:46.199
remove the ads and plugs. For Patreon, full VIP membership
1653
01:19:46.199 --> 01:19:48.520
starts at nine dollars in ninety nine cents to reach
1654
01:19:48.560 --> 01:19:51.760
yourself to a streamlined, ad and plug free listening experience
1655
01:19:52.079 --> 01:19:56.359
with a VIP or Patreon membership. By the way, this
1656
01:19:56.399 --> 01:19:58.760
is a class Zach. It's like it's almost like you're
1657
01:19:58.760 --> 01:20:01.239
a parody account of Zach. Hook doesn't need to look
1658
01:20:01.279 --> 01:20:05.279
like Lex Luger, does he Like, that's that's Zach. You know,
1659
01:20:05.560 --> 01:20:08.840
we email he writes for The Torch. I love his contributions,
1660
01:20:08.840 --> 01:20:11.279
but seriously, you are a parody yourself right here, because
1661
01:20:11.279 --> 01:20:17.600
you take a reasonable observation, and then that is including
1662
01:20:17.880 --> 01:20:22.199
me saying other restlers are way too muscular, like like
1663
01:20:22.439 --> 01:20:25.800
Warlow and Anthony Bones needlessly too muscular. But there's a
1664
01:20:25.800 --> 01:20:28.760
happy medium for hook And I don't even think if
1665
01:20:28.760 --> 01:20:30.399
he had other traits he won't need it. I'm just
1666
01:20:30.439 --> 01:20:33.239
stating the reality. I'm not advocating for him to right
1667
01:20:33.359 --> 01:20:36.840
up and look like Lex Luger. I'm just saying it
1668
01:20:36.880 --> 01:20:39.600
works against him if he doesn't have something else working
1669
01:20:39.840 --> 01:20:46.000
for him. And uh Zach says, I, I was literally asking,
1670
01:20:46.199 --> 01:20:48.520
not trying to be funny. I don't think you're trying
1671
01:20:48.560 --> 01:20:50.359
to be funny. I think you think you're making a point,
1672
01:20:50.399 --> 01:20:53.119
but like it's a parody in the sense that, of
1673
01:20:53.159 --> 01:20:55.079
course no one's advocating for the look like Lex Sugar.
1674
01:20:55.119 --> 01:20:58.079
You are putting an extreme opposite view out there, as
1675
01:20:58.159 --> 01:21:00.520
if that's the only alternative to a binary choice between
1676
01:21:00.560 --> 01:21:03.560
being a skinny runt or in over the top muscular guy.
1677
01:21:03.600 --> 01:21:06.720
And there's this vast ninety eight percent in the middle
1678
01:21:07.239 --> 01:21:10.039
that we are somewhere in the zone of. So that's
1679
01:21:10.239 --> 01:21:12.800
anyway am I being hard on him? Joshua When I
1680
01:21:12.880 --> 01:21:14.760
say that Ruddugs isn't.
1681
01:21:14.560 --> 01:21:17.319
No, no, no, Zach brings a lot of this on himself.
1682
01:21:17.359 --> 01:21:20.039
I love Zach, but he brings on him.
1683
01:21:20.039 --> 01:21:24.560
So yes, but everyone's while there's like this good point
1684
01:21:24.600 --> 01:21:26.279
and it's like, okay, yeah that's that's yeah, yeah, I
1685
01:21:26.359 --> 01:21:28.960
mean it is riting. I mean his futurecker on people.
1686
01:21:29.039 --> 01:21:32.399
Your torch I edited. I learned from it. His analysis
1687
01:21:32.439 --> 01:21:34.399
is fought on. It's actually more objective than he is
1688
01:21:34.399 --> 01:21:34.760
in the chat.
1689
01:21:34.800 --> 01:21:35.199
So I don't know.
1690
01:21:35.279 --> 01:21:39.279
I think it's someone's impersonating him. Fan Blesses. I totally
1691
01:21:39.279 --> 01:21:41.239
get Zach now. He's a master troll, and he plays
1692
01:21:41.239 --> 01:21:44.720
it straight faced. He knows what he's doing. Ll he
1693
01:21:44.760 --> 01:21:46.760
won't show, he won't set, he won't he will not
1694
01:21:46.800 --> 01:21:49.279
admit that if that is his pit ruod dog. We're
1695
01:21:49.319 --> 01:21:50.880
not being too art on Zach either. You're shaking your head.
1696
01:21:50.960 --> 01:21:52.399
No one asks, so we don't need to make this
1697
01:21:52.439 --> 01:21:52.960
all about Zach.
1698
01:21:53.039 --> 01:21:59.560
But yeah, no, hey, I appreciate Zach, so yeah, keep
1699
01:21:59.640 --> 01:22:04.039
up good work. But all right, so I'm gonna say
1700
01:22:04.079 --> 01:22:08.439
my last point here. So it seems like Brian Danerson
1701
01:22:09.079 --> 01:22:13.880
is now the guy that Tony Kahan has in his
1702
01:22:14.039 --> 01:22:18.479
ear because he's saying like random stuff like Tony Shavani
1703
01:22:18.600 --> 01:22:21.319
that doesn't really like make sense when he used to
1704
01:22:21.319 --> 01:22:26.079
do it. And and Tony, you know when I talked
1705
01:22:26.119 --> 01:22:30.479
to him before and he was like, yeah, yeah, Tony
1706
01:22:30.520 --> 01:22:32.720
Kahan's in my ear. But I look around for everyone
1707
01:22:32.760 --> 01:22:35.720
else and no one else is hearing what I'm hearing.
1708
01:22:35.880 --> 01:22:36.640
And I feel like.
1709
01:22:38.720 --> 01:22:44.119
Brian Danielson is now the guy that's like saying random
1710
01:22:44.319 --> 01:22:49.399
like Tony Khan stuff. What do you think about Brian
1711
01:22:49.479 --> 01:22:58.079
Danerson maybe being a liaison for Tony Khan And how do.
1712
01:22:58.039 --> 01:22:59.640
You think about his.
1713
01:23:01.399 --> 01:23:02.640
Commentary?
1714
01:23:03.359 --> 01:23:06.159
So I'm with Zach by the way, who says Brian's
1715
01:23:06.199 --> 01:23:08.800
been way better the last two weeks, not competing with
1716
01:23:08.880 --> 01:23:11.199
Taz for oxygen, and it was you know, it was awkward.
1717
01:23:11.239 --> 01:23:14.079
I mean it's a it's like you know basketball game.
1718
01:23:14.119 --> 01:23:15.520
You know, there's a couple of star players. They get
1719
01:23:15.560 --> 01:23:16.920
all the points, and then one of them gets hurt
1720
01:23:16.960 --> 01:23:18.399
and then all of a sudden, all these other players step
1721
01:23:18.520 --> 01:23:20.600
up and they score a lot. Brian was deferential to
1722
01:23:20.640 --> 01:23:22.399
the guy who was a senior guy in that position,
1723
01:23:22.439 --> 01:23:26.239
and he he should have been but yeah, he's been better,
1724
01:23:26.520 --> 01:23:29.800
and it's it's a you know, two man booths are
1725
01:23:29.800 --> 01:23:33.119
better than even a three of men who can work
1726
01:23:33.119 --> 01:23:34.680
if everybody has a separate role, you know, I mean
1727
01:23:35.119 --> 01:23:41.600
that has existed, But I think he's been better. I until.
1728
01:23:42.039 --> 01:23:44.239
I don't think Brian Danielson is a dumb guy. I
1729
01:23:44.319 --> 01:23:47.239
think he knows wrestling, but I don't think he's has
1730
01:23:47.279 --> 01:23:51.840
a great I don't think his booking mind fills in
1731
01:23:51.880 --> 01:23:54.760
the gaps of what AW needs to grow. I think
1732
01:23:54.840 --> 01:23:58.520
I think he is going to reinforce some things that
1733
01:23:58.640 --> 01:24:01.439
are not particularly portant for AW to recover from some
1734
01:24:01.479 --> 01:24:06.840
of the downturn or grow and until proven otherwise, I
1735
01:24:06.840 --> 01:24:08.720
mean that is kind of That's my take on him,
1736
01:24:08.760 --> 01:24:10.960
and I just I don't think his commentary is coming
1737
01:24:10.960 --> 01:24:15.199
across ass as showing a recognition of of what needs
1738
01:24:15.239 --> 01:24:17.159
to be done to help get some things more over,
1739
01:24:18.640 --> 01:24:22.119
And yeah, I mean he can be a great wrestler
1740
01:24:22.159 --> 01:24:24.359
and a super nice guy and have a good wrestling
1741
01:24:24.399 --> 01:24:26.000
mind in certain ways, But I don't think he's the
1742
01:24:26.039 --> 01:24:29.479
answer to a aw's booking shortcomings. But I do think
1743
01:24:29.520 --> 01:24:33.079
Tony is is there's you know, he's his sounding board
1744
01:24:33.119 --> 01:24:35.760
for him, and I don't think he gives them bad advice.
1745
01:24:35.800 --> 01:24:37.159
I just don't think he gives him the right kind
1746
01:24:37.199 --> 01:24:39.399
of advice or has the right ideas or the right
1747
01:24:39.399 --> 01:24:42.279
philosophy to clean things up and add some stuff that's
1748
01:24:42.319 --> 01:24:44.359
that's needed to grow the audience. That's that's my my
1749
01:24:44.399 --> 01:24:46.319
take at the moment. It's not it's not a final
1750
01:24:46.479 --> 01:24:49.159
formed opinion, but that decent amount of information and I
1751
01:24:49.159 --> 01:24:52.319
talk to people and that's my take on him. Red
1752
01:24:52.359 --> 01:24:55.680
Dog's nodding along. What do you think, Joshua, Yeah, kind of.
1753
01:24:55.680 --> 01:24:59.920
To Red Dog's point, like Danielson kind of sounds like
1754
01:25:00.039 --> 01:25:04.760
Tony Khan mouthpiece because a con may or may not
1755
01:25:04.800 --> 01:25:05.680
be feeding him.
1756
01:25:05.640 --> 01:25:06.319
Things to say.
1757
01:25:06.399 --> 01:25:08.920
But like I think Tony conn and briand Nelson are
1758
01:25:08.960 --> 01:25:13.439
probably pretty similar in their booking philosophies and their philosophies
1759
01:25:13.439 --> 01:25:15.119
and all wrestling should be and that is this would
1760
01:25:15.119 --> 01:25:18.079
be a good matching, right, this would be a good
1761
01:25:18.079 --> 01:25:22.039
match They're in lockstep on that. So when Brian says things,
1762
01:25:22.079 --> 01:25:24.800
it's almost always going to be in agreement with Tony
1763
01:25:24.880 --> 01:25:26.560
Kahan on purpose or not.
1764
01:25:28.880 --> 01:25:31.960
And he's a super fan who you know, Like I mean,
1765
01:25:32.840 --> 01:25:35.119
Brian just wanted to have matches, not to help aw
1766
01:25:36.199 --> 01:25:37.640
but because it would be a dream match. For him,
1767
01:25:37.640 --> 01:25:39.119
it's a match you wanted to have, and he thinks
1768
01:25:39.119 --> 01:25:41.439
the end result genuinely will be good for a W.
1769
01:25:42.159 --> 01:25:45.560
So it sounds like contradictory. But he didn't think what's
1770
01:25:45.560 --> 01:25:47.560
good for a W. He said what's good for me?
1771
01:25:47.720 --> 01:25:49.840
And then he thought everybody is like him and they
1772
01:25:50.000 --> 01:25:52.319
like it, so it's good for a W. And there's
1773
01:25:52.359 --> 01:25:54.880
somebody in AW needs to step back from that who
1774
01:25:54.960 --> 01:25:57.600
has some power and influence and say we have to
1775
01:25:57.600 --> 01:26:01.319
stop booking for ourselves and think about what this company
1776
01:26:01.399 --> 01:26:05.000
needs that when we book for ourselves, isn't enough or
1777
01:26:05.199 --> 01:26:09.399
has some weak points, or doesn't put forth a cohesive,
1778
01:26:09.439 --> 01:26:14.800
coherent coaching vision of what an alternative to this behemoth
1779
01:26:14.800 --> 01:26:18.039
competitor in WWA, What can we do to differentiate ourselves?
1780
01:26:18.039 --> 01:26:21.039
And I mean left and right, and I point to
1781
01:26:21.079 --> 01:26:22.640
when the lights went out and came back on. I
1782
01:26:22.680 --> 01:26:23.960
was like, it was a big eye roll for me.
1783
01:26:24.000 --> 01:26:25.920
I'm like, oh my god, it was so it was
1784
01:26:25.960 --> 01:26:28.520
so telling. It was so symptomatic of a mindset, which
1785
01:26:28.560 --> 01:26:30.920
is we're just going to do all the tropes. I
1786
01:26:30.920 --> 01:26:32.399
mean like, we're just gonna do all the troupes. We're
1787
01:26:32.399 --> 01:26:34.159
not going to be new we're not going to be better.
1788
01:26:34.319 --> 01:26:36.159
We're not gonna be different what you're gonna do all the tropes,
1789
01:26:36.239 --> 01:26:38.439
but our wrestling is going to be way better. And
1790
01:26:38.479 --> 01:26:43.560
it's like that got them only so far, you know. Cool,
1791
01:26:43.800 --> 01:26:45.600
We're doug. Anything you want to any closing comment?
1792
01:26:45.600 --> 01:26:46.000
Are you good?
1793
01:26:47.479 --> 01:26:51.960
I think I'm good? So thank you much and have
1794
01:26:52.079 --> 01:26:53.199
a great rest of your night.
1795
01:26:53.479 --> 01:26:56.159
Thanks glad you're back calling us always good talking talking
1796
01:26:56.199 --> 01:27:02.279
with you sweet. All right, joh Us what the opening match? Orgs,
1797
01:27:02.319 --> 01:27:04.840
Cassine and Darby, Allen, ag'instly do and Wheeler. I talked
1798
01:27:04.880 --> 01:27:08.880
to Fester, Wheeler, Utah and Daniel Daniel Garcia, Darby and
1799
01:27:08.960 --> 01:27:12.640
you to one. Lots of wild spots, you know, lots
1800
01:27:12.640 --> 01:27:16.079
of action. What do you think was the main storyline
1801
01:27:16.279 --> 01:27:18.760
point of the match or was it? And sometimes it's
1802
01:27:18.800 --> 01:27:22.079
okay for a match to just be a match, but
1803
01:27:22.119 --> 01:27:23.399
what do you think they were going for there?
1804
01:27:25.279 --> 01:27:27.800
Yeah, it's not uncommon for an AEW match to be
1805
01:27:28.000 --> 01:27:31.000
just a match for match's sake, and this was kind
1806
01:27:31.000 --> 01:27:33.000
of like that. It definitely seemed like that at the beginning,
1807
01:27:33.079 --> 01:27:34.680
but looking back at the show, you can kind of
1808
01:27:34.720 --> 01:27:37.840
see that they're actually trying to plant seeds for what's
1809
01:27:37.880 --> 01:27:40.760
going to be the Blood and Guts challenge that happens.
1810
01:27:40.439 --> 01:27:45.239
Midway through the show. Even though the conglomeration of Death
1811
01:27:45.239 --> 01:27:45.800
writers have.
1812
01:27:45.800 --> 01:27:49.560
Had very little interaction and certainly nothing warrantine eight Blood
1813
01:27:49.560 --> 01:27:52.680
and Guts match, this opening match at least kind of
1814
01:27:53.680 --> 01:27:57.279
made it almost passable reason for why they might consider
1815
01:27:57.359 --> 01:27:59.720
something that extreme, even though wholly necessary.
1816
01:28:00.279 --> 01:28:02.640
Yeah, that's that's yeah. I think that. I think you
1817
01:28:02.720 --> 01:28:05.920
answered astutely answered the question what they're going for. So
1818
01:28:07.000 --> 01:28:11.439
there's so much of aw booking that does feel like
1819
01:28:11.560 --> 01:28:13.479
we thought of it last Thursday. So we're gonna put
1820
01:28:13.479 --> 01:28:16.359
something on Collision to justify doing what we want to
1821
01:28:16.399 --> 01:28:18.680
do next Wednesday. You know, like Alance archif he's going
1822
01:28:18.720 --> 01:28:20.399
to be on TV and lose on Dynamite, he gets
1823
01:28:20.399 --> 01:28:22.640
a win on Collision the previous Saturday. You know, like
1824
01:28:22.720 --> 01:28:25.159
that kind of thing happens a lot. So you know,
1825
01:28:25.159 --> 01:28:27.039
we had that. I said, we have this weird singles
1826
01:28:27.079 --> 01:28:29.199
match with Hook and it's mystery opponent, and then he
1827
01:28:29.239 --> 01:28:32.359
beats like Griff Garrison, and it's like suddenly that sort
1828
01:28:32.399 --> 01:28:33.960
of be this like that's supposed to be this like
1829
01:28:34.079 --> 01:28:37.279
quiet but implied justification for him now being one one
1830
01:28:37.319 --> 01:28:39.199
Fluke went away from a pay per view Matavment World
1831
01:28:39.199 --> 01:28:41.319
title match. It's like, no, that's that's not enough. You
1832
01:28:41.319 --> 01:28:44.119
should plan months ahead and plan sets and all that.
1833
01:28:44.239 --> 01:28:48.359
And so yeah, some comments in the channel Blood Gouts
1834
01:28:48.399 --> 01:28:50.840
that Derek says Blooding Gouts won't be better than TDR
1835
01:28:50.880 --> 01:28:52.600
and the Young Bucks Versus will make Ospray Swerve and
1836
01:28:52.640 --> 01:29:00.319
Abushi and Tanahashi at Forbidden Door in twenty twenty five. Yeah, no,
1837
01:29:00.520 --> 01:29:00.960
I won't.
1838
01:29:01.439 --> 01:29:06.199
It's way less necessary and that way it's necessary match.
1839
01:29:07.000 --> 01:29:08.960
It's calendar I mean, it's sort of calendar booking, or
1840
01:29:08.960 --> 01:29:10.880
we got to check the box of the gimmick match.
1841
01:29:12.439 --> 01:29:16.399
Announced if the Blood Guts event long before this match
1842
01:29:17.439 --> 01:29:18.239
on the book for a.
1843
01:29:18.159 --> 01:29:23.520
Month, yep, yep, And it should feel Gimmick matches should
1844
01:29:23.520 --> 01:29:25.640
be the result of we need to have this gimmick
1845
01:29:25.680 --> 01:29:28.279
match in order to solve something. The gimmick itself provides
1846
01:29:28.279 --> 01:29:31.479
a means, a structure to get to an endpoint. And
1847
01:29:31.520 --> 01:29:33.520
we lost our way on that and it just became
1848
01:29:33.920 --> 01:29:37.399
like dual Rumble doesn't need It's rumble was different because
1849
01:29:37.399 --> 01:29:40.199
it's it's a gimmick match that isn't about settling a feud.
1850
01:29:40.279 --> 01:29:42.920
It's it's just a once a year match structure that
1851
01:29:42.960 --> 01:29:45.520
has a novelty. It's kind of a ridiculous way to
1852
01:29:45.560 --> 01:29:47.920
deside who's going to headline WrestleMania, but it's it works
1853
01:29:47.920 --> 01:29:49.960
so well. We all have to look past that, like
1854
01:29:49.960 --> 01:29:52.880
why should drawing a lucky number and not getting thrown
1855
01:29:52.880 --> 01:29:55.199
over the top rope mean you're the best rest the
1856
01:29:55.239 --> 01:29:56.960
second potentially the best wrestler in the world and the
1857
01:29:57.000 --> 01:29:59.479
biggest show of the year. There is there's always going
1858
01:29:59.520 --> 01:30:01.279
to be some ladd for things that just work really
1859
01:30:01.279 --> 01:30:04.000
well and people really enjoy. But when they don't work
1860
01:30:04.000 --> 01:30:05.720
really well and people don't really enjoy them, or they're
1861
01:30:05.760 --> 01:30:08.760
kind of productive, then we don't give them. The latitude
1862
01:30:08.760 --> 01:30:14.159
of mull again, the the what's the word Kevin sellin anyway,
1863
01:30:15.479 --> 01:30:16.720
there's a nother phrase of trying to think of. But
1864
01:30:16.720 --> 01:30:19.479
I've got too many thoughts of men. So gimmick matches
1865
01:30:19.560 --> 01:30:21.880
that are about settling a grudge should not be an
1866
01:30:21.960 --> 01:30:24.720
annual event. It should be something that you pull out
1867
01:30:24.760 --> 01:30:27.000
when it's called for. That's where Helen a Sell should
1868
01:30:27.039 --> 01:30:29.640
not be an annual event. It should be named after paper,
1869
01:30:29.720 --> 01:30:33.199
be named after it. Elimination chamber are more okay with
1870
01:30:33.239 --> 01:30:36.359
because that actually it's kind of a hybrid, but it's
1871
01:30:36.479 --> 01:30:40.880
mostly there to determine a challenger. It's not we're going
1872
01:30:40.960 --> 01:30:43.079
to settle a feud. Blood and Guts is. It's to
1873
01:30:43.119 --> 01:30:46.720
settle a few. Just don't do it at any particular
1874
01:30:46.720 --> 01:30:48.359
time of the year. It should be when a feud
1875
01:30:48.399 --> 01:30:50.760
gets so intense that fans are calling for it, channing
1876
01:30:50.840 --> 01:30:52.159
for it, and it's clearly the way to go.
1877
01:30:54.600 --> 01:30:58.079
Yeah, in general, calendar booking for sticking match lation matches
1878
01:30:58.239 --> 01:31:01.640
is just a bad idea all around, and both companies
1879
01:31:01.680 --> 01:31:04.560
have attendency to do that. And then Blood and Guts,
1880
01:31:04.680 --> 01:31:06.760
like you're saying, not only is that like it's like
1881
01:31:07.039 --> 01:31:10.439
the ultimate supposed ending to a feud, and this is
1882
01:31:10.479 --> 01:31:14.720
a few that started tonight. It's just antathetical to the
1883
01:31:14.880 --> 01:31:17.840
entire concept of it. And I think they were fine.
1884
01:31:17.920 --> 01:31:19.680
I think it also kind of undercause the fact that
1885
01:31:19.720 --> 01:31:22.279
they had set up a women's bud and Guts before those. Yeah,
1886
01:31:22.399 --> 01:31:24.079
it seems like they're really just kind of tacking it
1887
01:31:24.119 --> 01:31:25.840
on because well, we'll already have the two rings in
1888
01:31:25.840 --> 01:31:26.159
the cage.
1889
01:31:26.199 --> 01:31:29.159
They as well do. Let's find some people throwing that.
1890
01:31:29.680 --> 01:31:32.319
Yeah, and there's there's a men's and women's rumble, there's
1891
01:31:32.319 --> 01:31:33.760
a men and women's rumbles. We got an de mens
1892
01:31:33.800 --> 01:31:36.119
and women. Yeah, Zach Barbersa is adding a men's blood
1893
01:31:36.119 --> 01:31:38.439
and guts matches unncessarily. The women's blood and guts was
1894
01:31:38.640 --> 01:31:40.319
enough and actually justified.
1895
01:31:41.159 --> 01:31:41.319
Uh.
1896
01:31:41.359 --> 01:31:43.399
A couple months ago, Zach said, wrestling fans who are
1897
01:31:43.399 --> 01:31:45.239
booking a wrestling show for other wrestling fans need to
1898
01:31:45.239 --> 01:31:47.119
stop booking for wrestling fans. So I have that right.
1899
01:31:47.199 --> 01:31:51.760
I'm confused, loll to which fan bless says Zach Orandhia buddy,
1900
01:31:53.319 --> 01:31:55.720
and I am. I'm wondering if we've been like just
1901
01:31:55.800 --> 01:31:58.560
conned by Zach this whole time I was, I was
1902
01:31:58.560 --> 01:32:01.520
was I bike. I think I was biking around Minneapolis
1903
01:32:01.560 --> 01:32:04.279
Lake and there's a guy there set up for advocating
1904
01:32:04.279 --> 01:32:06.600
that Earth is flat and had a whole table set
1905
01:32:06.680 --> 01:32:09.720
up with all this evidence. He was said, ask me anything,
1906
01:32:09.840 --> 01:32:12.600
I've got an answer for everything, and uh, and he
1907
01:32:12.680 --> 01:32:14.439
was filming like it. He was either live streaming or
1908
01:32:14.439 --> 01:32:16.560
filming it. Like for some reason, it was like if
1909
01:32:16.600 --> 01:32:19.279
you are in actions with a film, we're filmed. And
1910
01:32:19.359 --> 01:32:22.800
I just kind of watched. I just it was amused,
1911
01:32:22.920 --> 01:32:26.920
you know by this, and I was like, he's actually
1912
01:32:27.039 --> 01:32:30.439
not serious. I don't think. I think he just wanted
1913
01:32:30.479 --> 01:32:35.039
to costplay someone who is serious, to see if how
1914
01:32:35.079 --> 01:32:37.560
people would respond, Like I thought my hunches. He was
1915
01:32:37.600 --> 01:32:39.920
like a graduate student in the university in the art
1916
01:32:39.960 --> 01:32:43.399
of persuasion or something, and he wanted to see, can
1917
01:32:43.439 --> 01:32:44.960
I take a point of view that I know is
1918
01:32:45.000 --> 01:32:47.720
absurd but advocate for it with our and see if
1919
01:32:47.760 --> 01:32:51.239
I can convince people or have people think something completely
1920
01:32:51.319 --> 01:32:53.800
ludicrous is reasonable if I deliver the message in a
1921
01:32:53.800 --> 01:32:55.880
certain way. And it's like, well, that's that's actually kind
1922
01:32:55.880 --> 01:32:58.319
of a fun intellectual exercise. I didn't like begrudge himt
1923
01:32:58.399 --> 01:33:02.239
it just you know, he's costplaying a flat earther just
1924
01:33:02.399 --> 01:33:05.159
and I think is Zach doing that? Is he costplaying
1925
01:33:05.479 --> 01:33:08.760
a contrarian who makes these straw man arguments and we've
1926
01:33:08.760 --> 01:33:10.600
just it's taken us years to figure it out.
1927
01:33:12.359 --> 01:33:14.640
I think that would be less depressing than the truth
1928
01:33:14.760 --> 01:33:18.840
that Zach just loves AW so much that he sees
1929
01:33:18.880 --> 01:33:20.960
it for what he wants it to be, what we
1930
01:33:21.039 --> 01:33:22.359
all want it to be, instead.
1931
01:33:22.079 --> 01:33:24.520
Of what I actually is. Yeah, I wish that were
1932
01:33:24.560 --> 01:33:27.319
the case. I think he is one hundred percent genuine
1933
01:33:27.359 --> 01:33:28.279
in his feelings.
1934
01:33:28.640 --> 01:33:30.399
Zach says he is too, but who can believe him?
1935
01:33:30.479 --> 01:33:32.520
He says, I'm not that guy. A lool. Well, that's
1936
01:33:32.520 --> 01:33:35.520
what the platters guys would say, though exactly exactly?
1937
01:33:40.119 --> 01:33:42.720
Are you a nostalgic wrestling finn? Do you want to
1938
01:33:42.720 --> 01:33:45.279
hear about shows you haven't seen in ten, twenty, maybe
1939
01:33:45.319 --> 01:33:46.279
even thirty years.
1940
01:33:46.560 --> 01:33:47.800
Well, I have the show for you.
1941
01:33:48.159 --> 01:33:51.640
I'm pwteors dot com contributor Frank petty Ani, and since
1942
01:33:51.680 --> 01:33:54.880
December of twenty twenty, I've hosted Pro Wrestling Then and Now.
1943
01:33:55.319 --> 01:33:58.079
Together with a rotating chair of co hosts. We go
1944
01:33:58.199 --> 01:34:00.960
back and review old shows from top to bottom, talk
1945
01:34:01.000 --> 01:34:03.720
about where the wrestlers were at the time, and compare
1946
01:34:03.840 --> 01:34:06.800
what's taking place now to what took place. Then you
1947
01:34:06.840 --> 01:34:09.159
can hear this along with other shows as part of
1948
01:34:09.199 --> 01:34:13.079
your PW Toworts VIP membership with exclusive podcasts just for
1949
01:34:13.199 --> 01:34:17.600
members compatible with the Apple Podcasts app Visit pwtorch dot
1950
01:34:17.640 --> 01:34:25.520
com slash Go vip for details and sign up form.
1951
01:34:25.800 --> 01:34:27.520
Derek says All the Flat Earthros had the same talking
1952
01:34:27.560 --> 01:34:31.000
points that it has rehearsed and repeated with each other. Yeah,
1953
01:34:31.039 --> 01:34:34.680
it's so it's so weird. But I don't know. I mean,
1954
01:34:34.720 --> 01:34:37.000
but you can Joe Rogan have some for two hours
1955
01:34:37.000 --> 01:34:39.600
and he won't make a logical counterpoint, you know, just
1956
01:34:39.680 --> 01:34:43.079
he'll just listen to people talk nonsense and say I'm
1957
01:34:43.119 --> 01:34:44.720
just here to ask questions. And it's like, well, at
1958
01:34:44.800 --> 01:34:48.960
some point you kind of I want to provide a platform. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
1959
01:34:49.239 --> 01:34:52.399
like sometimes people just disqualify themselves from being ticket seriously
1960
01:34:52.399 --> 01:34:58.760
and deserving that platform, and it's it's counterproductive. But anyway,
1961
01:34:59.600 --> 01:35:02.119
the John story, let's just touch on this with the
1962
01:35:02.159 --> 01:35:03.439
Kyler Riley we didn't get you know, we got a
1963
01:35:03.479 --> 01:35:05.039
double count ont eleven minutes. They told more of a
1964
01:35:05.039 --> 01:35:06.880
story last week with him wanting to avoid submissions. They
1965
01:35:06.880 --> 01:35:08.800
really underlined that this week, what do you what do
1966
01:35:08.840 --> 01:35:11.119
you think about the story they're telling with him, and
1967
01:35:11.119 --> 01:35:12.760
then the idea of doing the rematch with O'Reilly, but
1968
01:35:12.840 --> 01:35:16.119
doing the double count out as a way to avoid
1969
01:35:16.159 --> 01:35:19.119
to finish again more of a more of a pin
1970
01:35:19.359 --> 01:35:20.960
submission finish.
1971
01:35:21.520 --> 01:35:24.520
Yeah. So in theory, I appreciate that they're.
1972
01:35:24.279 --> 01:35:27.720
Trying to tell a somewhat nuanced story mostly in the
1973
01:35:27.800 --> 01:35:30.920
ring over the course of a couple of weeks. I
1974
01:35:31.039 --> 01:35:32.960
like that in theory, that's a good idea. They should
1975
01:35:33.000 --> 01:35:36.119
do that a lot. This is not that story, though.
1976
01:35:36.720 --> 01:35:39.239
This is more like the story where Kyle O'Reilly is
1977
01:35:39.279 --> 01:35:42.199
always pushing main inventors to their limit, even though he's
1978
01:35:42.239 --> 01:35:45.319
never been portrayed as anything other than man a second
1979
01:35:45.319 --> 01:35:48.000
tier loser in a joke group the entire time he's
1980
01:35:48.000 --> 01:35:52.079
been in aw And so you got the bad finish
1981
01:35:52.199 --> 01:35:55.720
last week to lead to this match this week with
1982
01:35:55.800 --> 01:35:59.560
another bad finish. It's like they're taking the complete wrong
1983
01:35:59.640 --> 01:36:02.119
lesson from the things to drive me crazy about like
1984
01:36:02.119 --> 01:36:04.439
a Monday night raw, Like, yeah, let's do that, and
1985
01:36:04.479 --> 01:36:06.920
that's working out really well. And so are we getting
1986
01:36:06.920 --> 01:36:09.359
a third Kyle Riley John Moxley Mattress. The Blood and
1987
01:36:09.359 --> 01:36:11.079
Gut's going to be the end of it. Like, like
1988
01:36:11.119 --> 01:36:13.079
I said, I like the idea of just telling the
1989
01:36:13.119 --> 01:36:16.119
story that Moxley's kind of shook from his loss and
1990
01:36:16.319 --> 01:36:19.479
that he is kind of losing his grip on things
1991
01:36:19.479 --> 01:36:24.079
and maybe possibly causing some issues within his group. And
1992
01:36:24.159 --> 01:36:26.359
that's a good story. But they're not actually telling that.
1993
01:36:26.399 --> 01:36:30.039
They're just kind of having Moxley struggle beating a known
1994
01:36:30.119 --> 01:36:30.760
loser in the.
1995
01:36:30.840 --> 01:36:36.760
Ranuage, it is that is at least concurrent with the
1996
01:36:36.800 --> 01:36:44.279
story that they're telling. I don't mind what My objection
1997
01:36:44.439 --> 01:36:47.279
to a non pinfall, a non clean pinfall, non clean
1998
01:36:47.279 --> 01:36:49.840
submission finish. My objection to it is when it feels
1999
01:36:49.840 --> 01:36:51.359
like it's a cop out because they don't want to
2000
01:36:51.399 --> 01:36:53.479
They want to get the benefit of presenting the match,
2001
01:36:53.520 --> 01:36:56.800
but they don't want to own an outcome, and so
2002
01:36:56.840 --> 01:36:58.560
people get invested in it and then they don't get
2003
01:36:58.560 --> 01:37:00.800
a finish. And not only is it, I think it's
2004
01:37:00.880 --> 01:37:04.039
bad business because then people start disinvesting from matches that
2005
01:37:04.319 --> 01:37:06.199
are compelling. So if every time you have a compelling matcher,
2006
01:37:06.199 --> 01:37:08.560
like I can't imagine who's gonna win this game, you know,
2007
01:37:08.720 --> 01:37:11.439
if if you got you know, you know, the World Series,
2008
01:37:11.439 --> 01:37:13.359
if just like I can't imagine it's gonna win between
2009
01:37:13.359 --> 01:37:15.680
these two teams, and then you just book non finishes,
2010
01:37:15.680 --> 01:37:17.159
like people are gonna not care about the World Series
2011
01:37:17.159 --> 01:37:19.239
anymore after a while. But at least you know, a
2012
01:37:19.279 --> 01:37:21.720
team doesn't have to suffer the humiliation of being eliminated.
2013
01:37:21.760 --> 01:37:24.000
Well sure, but the point is to find out who's better,
2014
01:37:24.680 --> 01:37:26.560
and it's okay to lose you just you know, you
2015
01:37:26.560 --> 01:37:29.439
should try hard not to. I don't mind a finish
2016
01:37:29.800 --> 01:37:32.199
in a match where people don't. I don't mind the
2017
01:37:32.199 --> 01:37:35.039
the DQ finished last week really much at all because
2018
01:37:35.560 --> 01:37:38.680
it Moxley would I mean the issue should Moxley be
2019
01:37:38.920 --> 01:37:42.239
against should Well Riley be that competitive against Moxley at
2020
01:37:42.239 --> 01:37:45.279
Moxley's level? I get that as a baseline. That's and
2021
01:37:45.319 --> 01:37:48.520
it's that's aw It's common. This isn't an outlier. They
2022
01:37:48.520 --> 01:37:50.680
do that all the time. Going back to Cody Roads wise,
2023
01:37:50.720 --> 01:37:53.279
Cody Roads taken sixteen minutes to b QT Marshall, like,
2024
01:37:53.319 --> 01:37:55.840
come on, we don't need to fill TV time that badly.
2025
01:37:56.399 --> 01:38:00.199
Multiple examples of that early on and ever since. So
2026
01:38:00.359 --> 01:38:03.000
it's it's part of Tony CON's booking because he says, hey,
2027
01:38:03.039 --> 01:38:05.920
we want good wrestling before we do the obvious finish,
2028
01:38:06.039 --> 01:38:08.319
and I got a fill TV time. Okay, I don't
2029
01:38:08.359 --> 01:38:11.760
like it. I don't think it's great. It's not offensive.
2030
01:38:11.800 --> 01:38:14.359
It's just I don't think it's great. But it's sort
2031
01:38:14.359 --> 01:38:18.479
of the idea. I think the baseline, the underlying assumption
2032
01:38:18.640 --> 01:38:20.960
is all these wrestlers are pretty close to each other
2033
01:38:21.000 --> 01:38:22.680
and it always comes down to a last second shot
2034
01:38:22.720 --> 01:38:25.520
at crunch time, like that's his booking philosophy. Even someone
2035
01:38:25.560 --> 01:38:28.800
who has a losing record. There they can be competitive
2036
01:38:28.800 --> 01:38:31.640
for ten twelve minutes. We're all about equal then, and
2037
01:38:31.680 --> 01:38:33.960
it's the better wrestlers really rise to the occasion once
2038
01:38:34.000 --> 01:38:37.079
it gets past that point. I think he's consistent enough
2039
01:38:37.079 --> 01:38:38.840
with that. I don't like it. I don't I don't
2040
01:38:38.880 --> 01:38:41.439
endorse it, but it doesn't it's not egregious to me, like,
2041
01:38:41.479 --> 01:38:43.279
oh my god, it's it's awful. It's just I don't
2042
01:38:43.119 --> 01:38:45.840
want to do it. Okay. So with that stipulated too,
2043
01:38:47.079 --> 01:38:48.960
Moxley does not want to give up. He'd rather get
2044
01:38:49.000 --> 01:38:52.760
decued than tap out because he spooked. And I don't
2045
01:38:52.760 --> 01:38:54.439
think people are like, oh, we didn't get to find
2046
01:38:54.439 --> 01:38:56.680
out if Kyle Rady can beat Moxley, because nobody thinks
2047
01:38:56.720 --> 01:38:59.880
Kyler Ridley can beat Moxley. So this was more Moxy
2048
01:39:00.159 --> 01:39:03.520
even want to be at risk of being knocked out
2049
01:39:03.640 --> 01:39:06.720
or passing out, or he just he's like, I'm I'm
2050
01:39:06.720 --> 01:39:08.359
so spooked by being a submission, I'll just kind of
2051
01:39:08.399 --> 01:39:10.399
hit the RAF to get out of this match. That
2052
01:39:10.520 --> 01:39:12.960
is actually part of a storyline. It's not a cop out.
2053
01:39:13.800 --> 01:39:16.760
Could you construct conjure up a better finish that doesn't
2054
01:39:16.760 --> 01:39:19.319
follow a trope that's frustrated people for years. Of course,
2055
01:39:19.319 --> 01:39:21.039
it's a danger zone when you do it. But this
2056
01:39:21.119 --> 01:39:23.199
is actually the rare exception that I'd be in favor
2057
01:39:23.239 --> 01:39:27.560
of if they eliminated all the others. That makes me,
2058
01:39:27.600 --> 01:39:31.760
I mean, this would be this is a this is
2059
01:39:31.760 --> 01:39:34.000
the time to do a non finished Yeah.
2060
01:39:33.800 --> 01:39:36.279
Right, Like if you stipulate too that if there is
2061
01:39:36.319 --> 01:39:38.640
a good time to do a non finished in service
2062
01:39:38.680 --> 01:39:40.479
of a larger storyline, yeah, that's the.
2063
01:39:40.439 --> 01:39:43.279
Time to do it. Yeah. I think my issue is
2064
01:39:43.319 --> 01:39:43.960
more along the lines.
2065
01:39:44.279 --> 01:39:46.399
I don't want to see another Moxi Kylo Riley match
2066
01:39:46.439 --> 01:39:49.720
because I didn't want to see the first one. I
2067
01:39:49.720 --> 01:39:52.239
guess I appreciate the story they're telling it. I even
2068
01:39:52.359 --> 01:39:54.000
like the way they're doing it in general. I just
2069
01:39:54.000 --> 01:39:56.159
don't think maybe Kylo Riley's the guy that'd be doing
2070
01:39:56.159 --> 01:40:00.439
it and or twice or possible third time.
2071
01:40:01.199 --> 01:40:04.880
Yeah, And I wasn't you're here, But I wasn't so
2072
01:40:04.960 --> 01:40:07.319
much rebutting your point as rebting kind of the larger
2073
01:40:07.359 --> 01:40:10.159
backlash to the finished last week, in that I actually
2074
01:40:10.199 --> 01:40:12.000
think it's a good example of when to do an
2075
01:40:12.039 --> 01:40:14.000
on when you can defend doing it on finished. The
2076
01:40:14.039 --> 01:40:17.000
problem is it carries the baggage with it of all
2077
01:40:17.000 --> 01:40:19.119
the other non finishes. And then a separate point is
2078
01:40:19.520 --> 01:40:22.439
why is Moxy taking this long against O'Reilly. And I
2079
01:40:22.479 --> 01:40:24.600
can make a case for well, it's why it sort
2080
01:40:24.600 --> 01:40:27.319
of does make sense in Cannon of how presents wrestlers.
2081
01:40:27.359 --> 01:40:29.399
But then you can also make the argument you want
2082
01:40:29.439 --> 01:40:32.039
matches people want to see with the backstory and you know,
2083
01:40:32.199 --> 01:40:34.760
some stakes that feel are there, and you don't think
2084
01:40:34.760 --> 01:40:36.880
O'Reilly is that guy. And I get that, you know,
2085
01:40:36.880 --> 01:40:38.399
they kind of got away with Mark Brisco being at
2086
01:40:38.479 --> 01:40:41.479
MGS level, But I don't think people buy Kyle o'reiley
2087
01:40:41.520 --> 01:40:44.119
in a sitcomment, a sitcom music on a couch with
2088
01:40:44.199 --> 01:40:46.079
his cartoon buddies, then coming to the ring and we're
2089
01:40:46.079 --> 01:40:50.079
supposed take him seriously as a you know whatever. So
2090
01:40:51.199 --> 01:40:54.279
there's a lot. Yeah, the context counts to all of this.
2091
01:40:54.399 --> 01:40:56.079
You know, it colors your reaction to things.
2092
01:40:57.520 --> 01:40:57.840
It does.
2093
01:40:57.960 --> 01:41:00.439
My reaction is, like I said, overly negative, even though
2094
01:41:00.479 --> 01:41:03.039
I like the story and I want to give them
2095
01:41:03.039 --> 01:41:07.520
credit for telling a story. Yeah on TV through Madge
2096
01:41:07.560 --> 01:41:09.920
it's a great idea. I just think there are better
2097
01:41:09.960 --> 01:41:11.880
people to do it with and better ways to do it.
2098
01:41:12.159 --> 01:41:15.119
Yeah, So Derek Mitchell backs up your point. I don't
2099
01:41:15.159 --> 01:41:17.600
care that Kyla Riley is a technical wizard facing mocks
2100
01:41:17.640 --> 01:41:20.399
multiple weeks. Chad Gable was in a mid card faction
2101
01:41:20.479 --> 01:41:23.000
Alpha Academy. You'd never seen him wrestle Roman Reigns for
2102
01:41:23.039 --> 01:41:30.920
fifteen minutes. Yep, all right, we had the big don
2103
01:41:31.000 --> 01:41:36.279
Kallis family meeting. You can blame me. I have advocated
2104
01:41:36.319 --> 01:41:38.640
for years the don Kallis family should appear on TV
2105
01:41:38.680 --> 01:41:43.239
together more often. It should feel like a co parent faction,
2106
01:41:44.840 --> 01:41:48.880
and we should get to know how they interact with
2107
01:41:48.920 --> 01:41:50.640
each other and how. I mean, we got all that tonight.
2108
01:41:50.680 --> 01:41:52.720
We got a good dose of that tonight. I'm for that.
2109
01:41:52.800 --> 01:41:56.479
I liked you know we are They're self aware that
2110
01:41:56.560 --> 01:41:58.920
they're the biggest faction. Rocky Rourero says we are the
2111
01:41:59.000 --> 01:42:01.279
largest and most minu in faction and pro wrestling. I
2112
01:42:01.319 --> 01:42:05.159
love that they're kind of leading into the Yes, but
2113
01:42:05.600 --> 01:42:08.399
it's also believable that Rocky would say that on behalf
2114
01:42:08.560 --> 01:42:12.239
of his faction, even if it's objectively hard to make
2115
01:42:12.319 --> 01:42:16.359
the case. So did I mean we could have led
2116
01:42:16.439 --> 01:42:18.279
with this? I mean Honestly, we could have said, hey,
2117
01:42:18.359 --> 01:42:20.840
this was a Ocat and Takesha is a big feud.
2118
01:42:21.560 --> 01:42:25.600
Ocat is like, so the joy of performance of him
2119
01:42:25.640 --> 01:42:28.560
being a heel, I mean he loves being a heel,
2120
01:42:28.600 --> 01:42:31.119
and that that handshake turned into a middle finger, and
2121
01:42:31.199 --> 01:42:33.720
then the smart that just uh, he is so delighted
2122
01:42:33.760 --> 01:42:36.159
with himself. I mean, it's it's fun. It's it's fun
2123
01:42:36.199 --> 01:42:38.439
to see you can it's clouded by you want Ocada
2124
01:42:38.479 --> 01:42:40.680
to be a more serious main event money draw, but
2125
01:42:40.840 --> 01:42:44.800
if you set that sacrifice aside, man, is it fun
2126
01:42:44.840 --> 01:42:46.600
to watch him be a heel? It's a big ask.
2127
01:42:46.680 --> 01:42:47.039
What do you think?
2128
01:42:47.079 --> 01:42:47.319
Jeff?
2129
01:42:48.039 --> 01:42:50.239
Yeah, no, I thought that segment may have been the
2130
01:42:50.479 --> 01:42:52.800
highlight of the entire night, given some of the quality
2131
01:42:52.840 --> 01:42:56.359
of things we discussed already. Yeah, and like you can see,
2132
01:42:56.640 --> 01:42:58.800
as soon as Takesha stuck his hand out, you're like, well,
2133
01:42:58.840 --> 01:42:59.680
you know how this is going to go.
2134
01:43:00.079 --> 01:43:02.439
Ocatta is definitely gonna give him a finger. But he
2135
01:43:02.600 --> 01:43:05.800
just did. It was such gusto that I thought it
2136
01:43:05.920 --> 01:43:06.560
was a great moment.
2137
01:43:06.600 --> 01:43:08.399
And even as much I enjoyed it, like you said,
2138
01:43:08.439 --> 01:43:11.920
Ocatta enjoyed it much more than anybody else, And he
2139
01:43:12.079 --> 01:43:15.560
really sold it, and he was so happy with himself.
2140
01:43:16.159 --> 01:43:17.920
And I think it's great. And like you said, you've
2141
01:43:17.920 --> 01:43:21.760
been advocating for a don Kellis family segment that kind.
2142
01:43:21.640 --> 01:43:23.680
Of explains who they are, what they do.
2143
01:43:24.000 --> 01:43:25.880
It's almost like they will look back at like, what
2144
01:43:25.960 --> 01:43:28.119
are Wade's critiques of our group? Oh, these things? Okay,
2145
01:43:28.159 --> 01:43:30.600
we need to address these things. And I'm not saying
2146
01:43:30.640 --> 01:43:32.800
it should be a fifteen minute injuring promo every week,
2147
01:43:32.840 --> 01:43:35.760
but they should have a similar segment like this weekly,
2148
01:43:36.520 --> 01:43:40.039
like just a two minute backstage thing of them discussing
2149
01:43:40.119 --> 01:43:42.239
what they're doing, what their plans are, and such and
2150
01:43:42.359 --> 01:43:45.760
such weekly just kind of keep up and deal with
2151
01:43:45.840 --> 01:43:47.359
the interpersonal.
2152
01:43:49.000 --> 01:43:50.960
Things between everybody.
2153
01:43:51.039 --> 01:43:55.880
And firmly established why we don't like Don Kellis, and
2154
01:43:55.960 --> 01:43:59.399
I mean his inspirational speech. How does a don Kellis
2155
01:43:59.439 --> 01:44:02.840
family succes seed We succeed by listening to what I
2156
01:44:03.119 --> 01:44:07.039
want and do listening to what I want, I decide
2157
01:44:07.119 --> 01:44:10.359
what happens. And then after that speech, he goes to cash,
2158
01:44:10.399 --> 01:44:12.079
you need to put your ego aside and shake his hand,
2159
01:44:12.119 --> 01:44:14.319
you know, shake Ocatta's hands, so he's forcing to catch
2160
01:44:14.439 --> 01:44:16.520
to do something, to Ketch, to nose Hokata will not
2161
01:44:16.600 --> 01:44:22.359
sincerely do. And then you have this great speech from
2162
01:44:22.520 --> 01:44:27.079
uh was it Fletcher, who is you need to sacrifice
2163
01:44:27.479 --> 01:44:31.439
your you need to always be there for your for
2164
01:44:31.720 --> 01:44:34.520
for a fellow family member, even if it puts you
2165
01:44:34.720 --> 01:44:38.720
at risk. That was that earlier. I'm I'm mixing up
2166
01:44:39.000 --> 01:44:40.840
which came first. I guess I probably came earlier. But
2167
01:44:40.880 --> 01:44:43.039
there's like the great you know speech about how how
2168
01:44:43.239 --> 01:44:45.960
the the honor code of the Callous Family, and it's
2169
01:44:46.039 --> 01:44:48.520
like it's clearly not it doesn't apply to everybody. It
2170
01:44:48.600 --> 01:44:51.119
just applies to people who are there to do things
2171
01:44:51.159 --> 01:44:53.039
that are hurt themselves for the people who are higher
2172
01:44:53.119 --> 01:44:55.079
up in the chain. So they came across as really
2173
01:44:55.119 --> 01:44:59.439
sleazy and and you know, uh, and then don kallis everything.
2174
01:44:59.439 --> 01:45:01.399
I mean, it's just like now these are heels and
2175
01:45:01.439 --> 01:45:02.760
you want to boom and you want to see him loose.
2176
01:45:03.079 --> 01:45:06.279
In addition, so it helped establish you know, who they
2177
01:45:06.319 --> 01:45:10.039
are and the chemistry within the group. And you know,
2178
01:45:10.119 --> 01:45:12.960
Fletcher was got to shine a little bit too, especially
2179
01:45:12.960 --> 01:45:14.920
when it's holding and lecturing to Keshtown how not to
2180
01:45:14.960 --> 01:45:16.479
overreact to with kind of giving the middle finger to
2181
01:45:16.600 --> 01:45:18.000
he so emphatic about that.
2182
01:45:19.920 --> 01:45:23.760
Yeah, it was as we beg for character development in
2183
01:45:23.880 --> 01:45:27.000
the group, and like because it's been a big group,
2184
01:45:27.079 --> 01:45:30.439
but it's always been mostly anonymous people that you know
2185
01:45:30.680 --> 01:45:35.800
from losing matches normally. So it's just even Rocky Romero,
2186
01:45:35.920 --> 01:45:38.600
who doesn't need to be in the group or in
2187
01:45:38.680 --> 01:45:42.199
the company or on TV, is adding something like his
2188
01:45:42.520 --> 01:45:46.399
cadence and everything very much a heel, and next time
2189
01:45:46.399 --> 01:45:48.439
he's in the match, I think people are more likely
2190
01:45:48.600 --> 01:45:51.640
to want to see him get you know, beat more
2191
01:45:51.760 --> 01:45:57.520
completely and you know, possibly bleed and so forth. I
2192
01:45:57.560 --> 01:45:59.399
mean not really UTI levels, but you still want to
2193
01:45:59.439 --> 01:46:00.560
see him get smack down.
2194
01:46:01.119 --> 01:46:05.920
Yes, And Danielson's uh, we're actually on commentary. It's like
2195
01:46:06.239 --> 01:46:09.039
you know, Seinfeld New Men. It's like with with uh
2196
01:46:09.279 --> 01:46:13.520
with Danielson and Yuda and playing that up. It's fun too.
2197
01:46:16.119 --> 01:46:17.840
Is anything else would have would have excluded from that
2198
01:46:17.880 --> 01:46:19.600
segment or anything you want to see in the future
2199
01:46:19.800 --> 01:46:22.560
since we're talking about it with with this type of dynamic.
2200
01:46:23.640 --> 01:46:26.359
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I liked most of everything.
2201
01:46:26.439 --> 01:46:29.319
I actually kind of would like to see maybe the
2202
01:46:29.399 --> 01:46:31.760
conversation spread out more. That seems like Fletcher talking well,
2203
01:46:32.520 --> 01:46:34.560
Fletcher should be talking more. Everybody else he's more important
2204
01:46:34.560 --> 01:46:37.000
everybody else, but I would like to hear from Lance Archer,
2205
01:46:37.039 --> 01:46:38.960
even though I feel like he's very little to stay.
2206
01:46:40.279 --> 01:46:42.239
It did seem kind of maybe it's because they had
2207
01:46:42.279 --> 01:46:43.560
the fool interest. I think they're going to come back
2208
01:46:43.600 --> 01:46:45.399
from commercial with like everybody already saying there maybe it
2209
01:46:45.399 --> 01:46:46.159
would have been better.
2210
01:46:46.039 --> 01:46:48.479
But just kind of tighten it up in spots, but
2211
01:46:48.560 --> 01:46:50.720
in general I think, like I say, more of this
2212
01:46:50.880 --> 01:46:51.479
would be better.
2213
01:46:53.119 --> 01:47:03.239
Yeah, yeah, from everybody, yep, yep, I agree. You don't
2214
01:47:03.279 --> 01:47:05.199
have to wait for the way Keller Pro Wrestling post
2215
01:47:05.199 --> 01:47:07.079
show to find out what I thought of Monday Night
2216
01:47:07.199 --> 01:47:09.239
Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check out my
2217
01:47:09.399 --> 01:47:12.920
reports that are updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown at
2218
01:47:13.039 --> 01:47:16.520
pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell you what's
2219
01:47:16.600 --> 01:47:18.880
happening in detail in case you missed the show, and
2220
01:47:18.960 --> 01:47:21.920
it will also analyze key segments and give my random
2221
01:47:21.960 --> 01:47:25.399
thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.
2222
01:47:25.439 --> 01:47:27.600
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
2223
01:47:27.680 --> 01:47:32.720
at pwtorch dot com. That also applies to wwepayperviews. I
2224
01:47:32.760 --> 01:47:35.119
cover those live at pw torch dot com with a
2225
01:47:35.199 --> 01:47:37.840
detailed written report with star ratings, and of course you
2226
01:47:37.880 --> 01:47:40.880
can find other TV reports from other contributors to pw torch,
2227
01:47:40.960 --> 01:47:44.680
such as nxt roh Impact Wrestling, and more. Check it
2228
01:47:44.680 --> 01:47:48.199
out pwtorch dot com, your first stop for TV and
2229
01:47:48.359 --> 01:48:02.239
pay per views written reports. So yeah, and then this
2230
01:48:02.319 --> 01:48:05.600
actually promoted collision to yeah, I mean for better for worse,
2231
01:48:05.800 --> 01:48:07.520
you know, I mean, we they're not consistent with it.
2232
01:48:07.600 --> 01:48:11.800
But by the way, come come to uh our YouTube
2233
01:48:11.800 --> 01:48:15.199
post show for rest analysis. But but stay around to
2234
01:48:15.239 --> 01:48:17.319
see the cat and the dog interact behind Joshua's They're
2235
01:48:17.319 --> 01:48:17.960
they're adorable.
2236
01:48:18.560 --> 01:48:20.119
They don't like each other. I don't know what's happening
2237
01:48:20.159 --> 01:48:20.439
behind me.
2238
01:48:21.640 --> 01:48:24.119
That's great, okay.
2239
01:48:24.439 --> 01:48:24.560
Uh.
2240
01:48:24.760 --> 01:48:28.920
Chris sette Lener alluded to it earlier, like I am
2241
01:48:29.039 --> 01:48:32.319
not rooting against her. I am like a parent at
2242
01:48:32.359 --> 01:48:37.520
a spelling bee, like don't just like, don't don't misspell
2243
01:48:37.520 --> 01:48:39.479
a her, like you know, like whatever, you know, I
2244
01:48:39.520 --> 01:48:41.840
mean whatever, a parent in a crowd watching a kid scared,
2245
01:48:42.000 --> 01:48:46.359
like you're watching her and you're like, don't don't like,
2246
01:48:46.960 --> 01:48:51.119
don't do that weird spin around thing. Don't like in
2247
01:48:51.199 --> 01:48:53.359
the acting was like, there's so many things wrong with it,
2248
01:48:53.479 --> 01:48:58.439
Like she ended the interview. So suddenly and it's like
2249
01:48:58.520 --> 01:49:01.199
the interview's over. She's walking away. It's like, no, you're not,
2250
01:49:01.800 --> 01:49:04.680
we know, but Rene acted like it was over. So
2251
01:49:04.840 --> 01:49:06.800
she really quickly goes into like, well there you have.
2252
01:49:06.880 --> 01:49:09.119
You know, the whole cliche, Well you have it, fans
2253
01:49:09.119 --> 01:49:11.960
we've heard from Chris Satteliner. It's like nothing felt genuine.
2254
01:49:12.000 --> 01:49:16.399
It felt like just a bad, cartoonish caricature of of
2255
01:49:16.520 --> 01:49:19.600
a of a wrestling promo. But I like her gimmick
2256
01:49:19.640 --> 01:49:21.000
is an alien. I think she should go back to
2257
01:49:21.039 --> 01:49:22.439
it because I mean, I think that's the one thing
2258
01:49:22.520 --> 01:49:26.359
she's kind of that her, Like, it's just her. I
2259
01:49:26.439 --> 01:49:28.000
don't I'm not trying to be mean, but like she's
2260
01:49:28.000 --> 01:49:29.760
on national TV, she expects people to watch her and
2261
01:49:29.800 --> 01:49:32.000
pay for she's earning money for it. I'm gonna critique her.
2262
01:49:32.680 --> 01:49:38.439
There's nothing authentic and that feels real about her promos.
2263
01:49:38.520 --> 01:49:40.439
But she's trying to do things that are so unnatural.
2264
01:49:40.520 --> 01:49:42.520
It's like, why do you keep doing things that you're
2265
01:49:42.680 --> 01:49:45.159
just almost as bad as anybody in wrestling right now
2266
01:49:45.199 --> 01:49:48.159
at doing and she keeps doing it. There's she has
2267
01:49:48.279 --> 01:49:50.119
to not be that awkward in real life.
2268
01:49:49.960 --> 01:49:53.279
Right, right, that't the I had, Like somebody needs to
2269
01:49:53.479 --> 01:49:56.560
like film her talking to a regular human being so
2270
01:49:56.680 --> 01:49:59.199
she understands like what it looks like and what it
2271
01:49:59.319 --> 01:49:59.800
sounds like.
2272
01:50:00.319 --> 01:50:01.600
How you know how things are patterned.
2273
01:50:01.640 --> 01:50:04.479
Now you know what words you choose, the inflection, you
2274
01:50:04.560 --> 01:50:07.720
know how normal people talk to other people. Even in
2275
01:50:07.840 --> 01:50:11.119
a you know, pompous interview segment something like that, it's
2276
01:50:11.159 --> 01:50:13.560
a little oh man, sure, but you still have to
2277
01:50:13.600 --> 01:50:15.479
sound like you know what a human.
2278
01:50:15.319 --> 01:50:16.439
Sounds like when you're talking.
2279
01:50:17.000 --> 01:50:19.920
And yeah, she is just so off putting and it
2280
01:50:20.079 --> 01:50:22.439
is bad because like I'm actually it's like a parent,
2281
01:50:22.640 --> 01:50:24.479
like I'm rooting for her. I want her to do well,
2282
01:50:25.159 --> 01:50:27.479
but like I don't know if you would want to
2283
01:50:27.479 --> 01:50:32.920
put somebody that is just that awkward on the microphone. Yeah,
2284
01:50:32.920 --> 01:50:33.880
I don't know if you want to give them your
2285
01:50:33.960 --> 01:50:36.119
championship and then put them on the microphone.
2286
01:50:37.079 --> 01:50:39.359
Yeah. I mean she's had worse, but like you know,
2287
01:50:39.520 --> 01:50:41.560
in Zack cycle, she was better than she was last week. Well,
2288
01:50:41.640 --> 01:50:43.039
we're creating on first, but.
2289
01:50:43.239 --> 01:50:43.760
This was.
2290
01:50:45.279 --> 01:50:48.600
Really really weird, and like it's it's like if you
2291
01:50:48.760 --> 01:50:52.079
didn't have rhythm, but you watched other people dance and
2292
01:50:52.159 --> 01:50:54.319
then you went on the dance floor and you're like, well,
2293
01:50:54.359 --> 01:50:56.520
when the beat of the music is like this, I'm
2294
01:50:56.560 --> 01:50:58.560
supposed to make this movement, but you're just like a
2295
01:50:59.000 --> 01:51:00.960
it's like this un any valley, Like you're just a
2296
01:51:01.000 --> 01:51:04.159
half a second off and everything is overthought, like like
2297
01:51:04.319 --> 01:51:06.239
this is a time when I'm going to spin around,
2298
01:51:06.560 --> 01:51:09.960
and like why are you spinning around? That's weird. Nobody
2299
01:51:09.960 --> 01:51:12.880
would do that, And well it's because I'm trying to
2300
01:51:12.920 --> 01:51:15.199
get this effect right, but when people do it, like,
2301
01:51:16.159 --> 01:51:16.560
I don't know.
2302
01:51:18.359 --> 01:51:20.720
She may not be a weirdo in real life. That
2303
01:51:20.880 --> 01:51:23.159
she probably is, but I assume she can hold a
2304
01:51:23.239 --> 01:51:28.600
normal conversation and not do things that are awkward now ordinary.
2305
01:51:29.039 --> 01:51:31.359
And we also had a discussion going on on the discord,
2306
01:51:31.479 --> 01:51:34.319
like we could not figure out what she was wearing,
2307
01:51:34.640 --> 01:51:36.600
whether or not this was Halloween related, like that was
2308
01:51:36.640 --> 01:51:38.960
a color. Yeah, well that's just how she dresses. But
2309
01:51:39.079 --> 01:51:41.960
she is so awkward weird every other way. I assume
2310
01:51:41.960 --> 01:51:46.199
that's how he dressed. Eventually determined she was something for Halloween,
2311
01:51:46.279 --> 01:51:47.039
but we don't.
2312
01:51:46.840 --> 01:51:50.840
Know what I was thinking of that. I don't remember
2313
01:51:50.880 --> 01:51:53.119
all the specific there were time like is this Halloween
2314
01:51:53.159 --> 01:51:55.520
outfit or like Meghan Baine, like did she dress up
2315
01:51:55.520 --> 01:51:57.159
for Halloween or is this her regular gimick out it
2316
01:51:57.239 --> 01:51:59.760
Like an average you would be like is this what
2317
01:51:59.840 --> 01:52:02.640
you or like her? I mean, it is progressing. That's
2318
01:52:02.680 --> 01:52:05.520
gonna actually happen. Some regular outfits are going to look
2319
01:52:05.560 --> 01:52:11.760
like Halloween costumes for sure. Yeah, docually anything else, I.
2320
01:52:11.800 --> 01:52:12.119
Mean, I know.
2321
01:52:12.239 --> 01:52:16.039
Other stuff happened on the show, nothing really super stand out.
2322
01:52:16.760 --> 01:52:18.840
I mean, we had the start of the women's tag
2323
01:52:18.960 --> 01:52:23.359
team title thing, which I thought I was a big
2324
01:52:23.439 --> 01:52:27.640
proponent not generally adding titles to AW But if you're
2325
01:52:27.640 --> 01:52:30.159
gonna add one women's tag team, I think is maybe
2326
01:52:30.359 --> 01:52:33.439
the best case scenario and get more women on the show.
2327
01:52:33.960 --> 01:52:35.520
You get tag teams so you can kind of like
2328
01:52:35.920 --> 01:52:38.800
hide somebody who's greener and kind of get more people
2329
01:52:38.800 --> 01:52:41.319
in show, get more people work, and get more people better.
2330
01:52:41.159 --> 01:52:41.720
At what they do.
2331
01:52:44.520 --> 01:52:47.000
That's really just a general thought on women's taking titles.
2332
01:52:47.039 --> 01:52:48.920
The Master to Night was fine. It was good actually
2333
01:52:49.000 --> 01:52:52.439
kind of like Hater and Amanada as a team. But
2334
01:52:52.520 --> 01:52:55.600
I do appreciate one of the few original women's tag
2335
01:52:55.640 --> 01:52:57.520
teams moving forward in the same.
2336
01:52:59.039 --> 01:53:02.359
JBI from DETROITI because some of the points we covered
2337
01:53:02.399 --> 01:53:04.000
so much I'm not going to read his comments unless
2338
01:53:04.079 --> 01:53:05.800
there's something he's really adding to what we said, but
2339
01:53:05.840 --> 01:53:07.640
he goes. I really enjoyed the Call's family when they're
2340
01:53:07.640 --> 01:53:09.680
doing events like dinners and summits, things like that actually
2341
01:53:09.680 --> 01:53:12.640
define the members of the group and their personalities. I'd
2342
01:53:12.680 --> 01:53:14.600
love to see a Joe Lashley singles match down the road,
2343
01:53:14.600 --> 01:53:16.079
and I'd like to see Lashly be built up for
2344
01:53:16.159 --> 01:53:19.960
a big TV a big TV title feud at some point.
2345
01:53:20.039 --> 01:53:21.920
I don't know if he actually means TV title, but
2346
01:53:22.920 --> 01:53:24.920
build up a feud on TV for the title anyway.
2347
01:53:25.720 --> 01:53:28.359
I just like to to revisit Hook and Joe before
2348
01:53:28.399 --> 01:53:30.359
Joe hangs it up, perhaps Joe putting hook Over on
2349
01:53:30.479 --> 01:53:33.359
his way out mox who put over Megan Main huge
2350
01:53:33.359 --> 01:53:36.079
which is a few words tonight. I'm very interested in
2351
01:53:36.159 --> 01:53:38.159
the Bine death Writer's dynamic. It gives Pain a chance
2352
01:53:38.199 --> 01:53:40.000
to show the crowd more of who she is. She's
2353
01:53:40.039 --> 01:53:42.319
a much better fit with the death writers and stat
2354
01:53:42.560 --> 01:53:46.199
in my opinion. Will Darby continue to use the scorpion deathlock?
2355
01:53:46.239 --> 01:53:48.399
What do you think about that, Joshua, I'm okay with it.
2356
01:53:48.479 --> 01:53:52.079
I think that's interesting because you may recalled from the roundtable.
2357
01:53:52.119 --> 01:53:54.439
I thought the ending of their I Quit match fell
2358
01:53:54.479 --> 01:53:57.159
a little bit flat because, like Darby scor in Death blocks,
2359
01:53:58.079 --> 01:53:59.720
but if you can continue using it, I think I
2360
01:53:59.800 --> 01:54:02.439
kind of that recontextualizes that and makes me maybe appreciate
2361
01:54:02.479 --> 01:54:04.920
that ending more. And I think it makes sense for
2362
01:54:05.119 --> 01:54:07.760
Darby to have like a submission finisher like that, particularly
2363
01:54:07.800 --> 01:54:10.800
taken from an icon who was also his mentor, so
2364
01:54:10.920 --> 01:54:11.840
he continued jest.
2365
01:54:11.840 --> 01:54:13.760
Actually think that'll be a plus for him in the
2366
01:54:13.840 --> 01:54:14.199
long run.
2367
01:54:15.199 --> 01:54:17.319
Sos Max being a coward is a very interesting twist
2368
01:54:17.359 --> 01:54:19.520
that I hadn't expected. I feel like this character change
2369
01:54:19.600 --> 01:54:21.680
is what will ultimately lead to the death of the
2370
01:54:21.720 --> 01:54:24.319
Death Writers. Where, Yeah, where do you think this is heading?
2371
01:54:25.760 --> 01:54:25.960
Well?
2372
01:54:26.359 --> 01:54:29.399
I originally I assumed that Moxley was kind of on
2373
01:54:29.520 --> 01:54:31.279
his way out as soon as he lost to Derby,
2374
01:54:31.399 --> 01:54:34.800
but there could have time this extended confidence shaking storyline,
2375
01:54:34.800 --> 01:54:38.119
which again I think is interesting. It almost kind of
2376
01:54:38.239 --> 01:54:42.000
has to end with him the Death Writers getting rid of,
2377
01:54:42.359 --> 01:54:43.800
Like what kind of leader could he be if he
2378
01:54:43.920 --> 01:54:45.840
can't beat Kylo Riley?
2379
01:54:47.479 --> 01:54:52.720
Yeah, yes, yeah, Finally, jab just says I think the
2380
01:54:53.000 --> 01:54:56.359
uh hanging that's disguise reveal was way better than any
2381
01:54:56.479 --> 01:54:58.960
actual reveal that I thought they might do.
2382
01:55:00.039 --> 01:55:00.199
You know.
2383
01:55:00.720 --> 01:55:02.800
That's what's kind of a shame too, is like there
2384
01:55:02.920 --> 01:55:05.079
was an idea here, you know, I mean there was
2385
01:55:05.119 --> 01:55:07.439
a kind of you know, Hangman kind of mouthed in
2386
01:55:07.520 --> 01:55:11.560
Shavanni's words and kind of you you didn't expect Hangman
2387
01:55:11.600 --> 01:55:13.560
to show up as Shavanni and it, but it was
2388
01:55:13.640 --> 01:55:16.960
so hamp like hamphis It's like, Joe, well, now we
2389
01:55:17.119 --> 01:55:19.680
know Hangman isn't doing anything because he's not in this
2390
01:55:19.800 --> 01:55:21.600
outfit that I just ripped the head off of, so
2391
01:55:21.760 --> 01:55:24.439
therefore I must be safe. And it's like, you know,
2392
01:55:24.600 --> 01:55:27.319
like you want your heels to be somewhat street smart.
2393
01:55:27.399 --> 01:55:30.960
You want Joe to be street smart, like maybe Grayson
2394
01:55:31.000 --> 01:55:32.720
Waller doesn't need to be street smart, you know, or
2395
01:55:32.800 --> 01:55:35.159
whatever I mean, but like you want Joe to be
2396
01:55:35.239 --> 01:55:37.640
more street smart than that. And like so much was
2397
01:55:37.680 --> 01:55:41.600
sacrificed in the pursuit of just the you know, the
2398
01:55:41.720 --> 01:55:46.199
Bischoff old Man reveal thing, but there was something there
2399
01:55:46.399 --> 01:55:48.479
that had not had there not been all the negatives
2400
01:55:48.600 --> 01:55:51.479
like including like does Hangman really need to go to
2401
01:55:51.560 --> 01:55:53.399
this much toll? He's your world champion? I think you should.
2402
01:55:53.600 --> 01:55:55.600
It's like it's not he's not bishoff. It's like, it's
2403
01:55:55.640 --> 01:55:59.640
your world champion, and he's going to elaborately dress up
2404
01:55:59.680 --> 01:56:01.760
like Tony Shavanni in cahoots with the guy who supposed
2405
01:56:01.760 --> 01:56:04.439
to be objective in Tony Shavanni, to just get a
2406
01:56:04.520 --> 01:56:07.039
couple shots in at Joe when he there's so many
2407
01:56:07.079 --> 01:56:10.119
other ways wrestlers get shots in at wrestlers. It's just that,
2408
01:56:10.439 --> 01:56:12.279
you know, the old Austin power is saying this overly
2409
01:56:12.399 --> 01:56:15.680
needlessly complex way to kill your, your, your, your, your nemesis.
2410
01:56:15.720 --> 01:56:18.319
It's like, just just often, why does that be so complicated?
2411
01:56:18.439 --> 01:56:22.159
So anyway, we've done full It.
2412
01:56:22.279 --> 01:56:24.640
Was a germ of an idea that could have worked
2413
01:56:24.680 --> 01:56:26.800
in there, Yeah, but it didn't.
2414
01:56:28.000 --> 01:56:30.840
But we will never forget Hangman Page dressed up like
2415
01:56:30.920 --> 01:56:33.000
Tonish Tony Shavani, who's dressed up for Halloween.
2416
01:56:33.760 --> 01:56:35.880
Yeah. Well, in that way, I guess it's a success.
2417
01:56:35.960 --> 01:56:38.239
It was a moment that happened that we'll live on
2418
01:56:38.439 --> 01:56:39.600
in infamy.
2419
01:56:39.720 --> 01:56:43.880
I guess yeah, yeah, rcle anything else you want to
2420
01:56:43.880 --> 01:56:45.520
add otherwise we can just wrap up here.
2421
01:56:46.359 --> 01:56:47.840
I think we beat it pretty good.
2422
01:56:48.239 --> 01:56:51.000
All right. Yeah, it's fun, I mean it's fun to
2423
01:56:51.359 --> 01:56:53.840
it's fund of a labor points that are is ridiculous
2424
01:56:53.880 --> 01:56:58.039
and and like weird as a o US tonight technical
2425
01:56:58.079 --> 01:57:01.479
problems aside Peter you Torch VP membership is available seventy
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In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
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Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
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