WEBVTT
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Up close with Palmas.
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Celebrating art, entertainment, and the human service.
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Ellen Thomas, thank you so much for sitting down the bus today.
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Thank you.
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Um, just for the, you know, it's Martina Ledz, um, debut player as a writer, but she's a very accomplished actress herself.
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Um, did you find reading the script, you know, by having been written by a fellow actor?
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Did it have a different sort of rhythm for your performance?
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No.
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I admire her as an actress.
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So reading the script, I just thought, oh my goodness, and she directs as well.
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This woman is a triple threat.
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You know.
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Um, no, no, no, no, no.
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Um, loved it.
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The first time I read the play, I totally loved it, and I wanted it.
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It was that it was like, okay, I'm going to be seen for this, and I'm going to do the homework.
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So I did a bit of homework before going to the casting.
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And um also, it's my first time working at the RSE.
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It's one of the uh credits I don't have on my my biography, my CV.
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So I said, mmm, it's a double whammy.
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Let's see if we can get this job.
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So that was um some of the first thoughts, yeah.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I mean the play deals with some very dark themes.
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Um, you know, it has you know very gothic, you know, family secrets inside it as well.
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Um, how do you sort of like maintain that sort of stamina to do you know a two-hour, 40-minute play with all this geopolitics going on as well?
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No, I know.
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It's challenging, but I could understand why the RSC wanted to do it.
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It is very Shakespearean in its depth and breadth and characters, big, bold characters.
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So I could see why they wanted to do it.
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But um also I find it fascinating that in the play said in 1956, we're in 2026, some of the themes are still so resonant, so current.
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Venezuela um Haiti.
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Just like, oh my goodness, I don't believe this is happening.
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It's I mean what?
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It's 50, 60 years later, and the Americans in that situation all happening all over again.
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It's almost like no lessons learned.
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So, do you know what I'm saying?
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It's quite scary, actually.
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It really is.
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When we were reading the play in the rehearsal, we we just couldn't believe how it resonated with what was going on today, not just in terms of immigrants and families uh moving around to better themselves and create lives for themselves, not just that, but also the the war situation.
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Yes, it really, really, it totally was a wake-up call for most of us in the rehearsal room.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Absolutely.
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I mean, like the fact that you know so much has also like not changed in that time.
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You know, yeah.
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What do you think that's all like tells us about humanity and like the human condition?
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Well, history does say um when it goes left unchecked, challenges left unchecked, it will repeat itself, and that's exactly what is happening.
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You know, I find it it can it connects for me also with the Windrush generation.
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I'm sure you've heard about them.
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Um the Windrush generation, mostly Caribbean people, African and Caribbean people, who were involved in the Second World War.
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They came and they fought for the motherland, the United Kingdom.
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And then after the war, many of them settled in the UK, and um 50, 60 years later, they were being told, um, sorry, thank you, but um, can you go back now, please?
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Do you know what I'm saying?
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Um, a lot of them, their children were born in the UK, their grandchildren, they pay tax, all of those, all those things that you expect a good human to do.
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They do, and yet they get treated so badly.
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And I think it's basically it's kind of the same.
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What was happening in Trinidad, the way the Americans treated the Trinidadians.
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Just in fact, in the play, it says, You've been living in our backyard this whole time.
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The audacity of that, it hasn't changed.
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In fact, it's gotten worse.
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Do you know what I'm saying?
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Iran, I'm surprised um, you know, that Iran isn't thought of us.
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That's our backyard.
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Straight and foremost, it's ours.
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All of those kind of things.
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So again, history left unchecked keeps repeating itself.
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And I think that you know, we should we need to just keep a check now and just say, what is it?
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Checks and balances.
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Yes.
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Um, you know, we as a people, the global majority, will not deal with this anymore.
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I really do believe that.
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You know, we need humanity, it needs to be to reign.
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Do you know what I'm saying?
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Rather than individuals.
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Yeah, I just think that we again, I find resonance with Pearl in when she joins the PNM, the People's National Movement, when she joins that, it awakens this whole political side of her that she didn't know she had.
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And it gave her a voice.
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Suddenly, this woman who's just knuckled down, worked really, really hard, struggled, suffered, and everything else, suddenly joins her um uh decides she's going to vote for the first time, and keeps going to the meetings and meeting like-minded people and realizing that oh my goodness, I have a voice.
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I can affect change.
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And I think that is hugely powerful.
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Hugely powerful, you know.
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Definitely.
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I mean, the play happens, you know, why it's on the precipice of Trinidadian independence, which is so um, which is such an event for the time as well.
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Um, I mean, did you see there were many parallels between you know the custody battle over ALMA and you know the wider geopolitical situation at the time as well?
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The the AMA um kind of, yes, because as far as she's concerned, she's like good citizens, she's worked really, really hard for this place, and um she feels that she should be a part of own part of it, if not own it outright.
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Absolutely.
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I agree with I agree with her on that stuff.
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In fact, it's not just a home, it's a business, and she's the one that's actually on the ground doing the dirty work, you know, keeping it going, and so on and so forth.
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And whereas Mansion is just screaming off the profits.
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That sounds similar to a lot of what's going on.
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Do you know what I mean?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I agree with her fighting for Alva totally for sure, and that's what like the title drift with as well.
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It's sort of suggestion, something floating, something drifting as well.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Um, yeah, I mean, like, how would you say that this like sort of like metaphor applies to you know people of Pearl's generation?
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Oh my god.
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Um, Pearl's generation, they struggled, they suffered, and Pearl's generation that the people that were if I do good work, if I work really hard, everything will be okay.
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Uh no.
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Ruby, her daughter, now realizes that as well.
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And she's out for herself.
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She's going to take, she's what I call a modern woman in the 50s.
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She's going, she's looking after herself.
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She's not giving her all to the country, to the all of that.
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No, no, no.
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It's me first.
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I have to take care of myself first.
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And so I totally agree with her, you know, and I love that Pearl actually finds her voice in the play.
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And I hope it resonates with audiences, you know, not just African-Caribbean women, but women, particularly women, and you have a voice, use it.
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Do you know what I'm saying?
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Yes, and people died to get the vote.
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In some countries, people died to give to give vote the suffragettes, the suffragettes, you know, died and suffered to give women a vote.
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And I think that it is um we have a right to actually use that voice.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Absolutely.
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And it's interesting as well, you know, Powers' relationship with her children, yeah.
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It's quite a fiery relationship with a voice.
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Oh, yeah.
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That's that's a cultural thing.
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That's how you grow up.
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In one of the scenes, she was saying that children were left.
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Um I'm from an African background, I'm West African, and um, I was left, and I had some challenges with the play in the scenes where with Diamond, where my body kept thinking that this was my story, and I'm going, no, it isn't.
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This is Pearl's story, this is her trauma, not yours.
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Yours was not like hers, and so on.
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You had a grandfather, you were left with a grandfather who really loved you, thought you were the best thing since sliced bread, you know, showed you love and care and so on.
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Pearl wasn't.
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She was left with an aunt who beat her mercilessly because that was the norm.
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You know, children were not um expected to um talk back to parents and so on, and a slap and a you know, a lash were more frequent than sit down, let's talk about this stuff, you know, so on.
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So um I convinced myself this is not true story, so just get on with play.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Those times were really seriously hard, and it was also a little bit left over from slavery, where people were beaten rather than talked to in a human way if they did something wrong.
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It was, and that's left over, and it was sad left over, I think, for African-Caribbean communities.
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Yeah, that still lingers.
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Yeah, I never thought about the link between slavery and physical punishments.
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Yeah, yeah, that's what they that's what they knew, and they were just mirroring, you know, and continuing what they knew, you know, and so on.
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So yeah.
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Yeah, I was interested in um as well, like working with uh Andrea Faj as well on developing that accent.
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Of the Trinidadian accent, yeah.
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Yeah, um, how did you begin to sort of like tap into that as well?
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Well, she was very, very helpful.
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Um, again, because we're uh in Stratford on Avon, and um the um the people who come to Stratford-on-Avon come to the um the other place and also as well, they there was a moment when I thought that people were, oh, it's a Trinidadian accent, or I'm not going to really understand it.
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Rather than this story is powerful and it is really, really clear, even if you don't understand the the accent as much, the story is visibly clear what's going on, and so on.
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And there were times in the beginning, especially the dream previews, where we felt that people were kind of thinking of it as oh, I can't, I it's too the accent is too difficult for me to understand, and I was struggling a little bit, and all the rest of it.
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Um, so again, Andrea helped us with that in that please can the accent not be quite so strongly Trinidadian, at least not here.
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And um, she led us into ways, certain words which will give you the Trinidadian feel and accent and um and love of language because they love their language, they love they they love how they um how they construe their language, which I totally love as well, which Martina has mastered totally.
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Um one of my favorite lines in the play is where Pearl says, I had was to make sure and take for myself what you owe me.
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You know, in other words, she could have just said, I just took what was mine, what was legally mine, because I'd worked for it anyway.
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No, she has to go into this wonderful description of I had was to.
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Do you know what I'm saying?
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I loved all that about the play.
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Yeah, I mean it's just a it's so clever when you're able to capture the essence of these characters, for sure.
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And the true daddients will come to see it and love that because that is exactly the goal.
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Yes, that's how my aunties all talk, yes, that's how my grandmother and mother talk.
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They never say things as simply as you know, ABC.
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They they they uh they enjoy it, I think.
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They they add flower to it, they make it all flowery and lyrical and all that, which is again a love for language.
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Yeah, love that definitely.
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I feel like Justin Audebert is such an exciting director as well at the moment.
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You know, he's very much taken Chichester into a new direction as well out there, too.
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Um, yeah, what was it like working with him?
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And you know, you have like particular objectives in mind for what you wanted to achieve with the play.
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Um well he he went to Trinidad and we were like, okay, thanks for taking us with you to do some research, of course.
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Um, yeah, it was an exploration both for him and for us in the same time.
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And once Martina came on board in terms of cultural expert, the play just took on a life of its own.
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It became really vivid and alive for all of us.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Because she could tell you where the story comes from, um, the people who were involved, some of it personal, some of it not.
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The history, she'll tell you about the history of what that happened there, and the history of Calypso and the Calypsoans who put um politics in the music to get to the people.
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She told us, oh, it was wonderful, wonderful.
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The rehearsal process was good.
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Really, really good, yeah, yeah.
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I can imagine exploring.
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I can imagine.
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Um, I remember um you know, a few years ago, you know, you obviously did um the Amen Corner as well, the James Baldwin play, um, during the tricycle era as well.
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Yes, yes.
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Um, I feel like that was also another piece that was very much focused on you know black oppression and the domestic family as well.
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Did you see many sort of like parallels between this play and that play too?
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Um, not as much.
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In terms of Margaret in Amen Corner and Pearl.
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Yes, Margaret was married, Pearl wasn't.
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And I think that's where the similarities stop.
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But then they also had, and also Margaret didn't give her away her son, and Pearl did, because that was the sort of norm in her community of you know, other members of the family raising your children while you go look for work.
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Margaret didn't have that, but in terms of family, strong family ties and bonds, yeah, they are very, very similar, very strong women, hardworking, and also husbands or boyfriends who've let them down.
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So there were similarities in that.
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Um, and trying to steer their sons in the right direction, um, give them a way of life that is going to uh help them.
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Yeah, they were similar in that.
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Yeah, yes, yeah, but that's about it, I think.
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Also, Pearl, and Pearl is not religious in any way, shape, or form, and Margaret obviously was, is um so which I find interesting from Martina's point of view that she's not really because that period women were super, super religious.
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You know, Sundays was church, and that's it.
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And also, I think if she was religious, she wouldn't have run a drinking club because you know, she wouldn't have done all things.
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She she says to her son, I'm no angel.
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And she means I've done some things and you know, lived.
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Um, whereas Margaret is completely really, really centered in the church, and all those um things that you have to abide by being uh you know preacher's wife and all of that.
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So I think they're different in in um in certain ways.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, but two very strong women, two very powerful women.
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Um, and Margaret knew her voice, whereas Pearl found hers much later on.
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So yeah, yeah.
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Well, you're always sort of drawn to these characters and these strong women who are sort of struggling against the system, too.
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Something about them resonates with me.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Um, yeah.
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Currently struggling with the situation, the current world situation at the moment.
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Yeah.
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Of course.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Um, it's interesting as well, you know, next year's 40 years since um James Baldwin passed away as well.
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Yeah, it's very fortunate to meet him when he came to see me.
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Really?
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What was he like?
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Amazing, amazing, amazing man.
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You're one of those people.
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I also had the pleasure and the honor of working with Dr.
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Maya Angelou, Woon of a Rainbow Shaw, which was done at the Omeda.
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And Dr.
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Maya Angelou and James Hordon are very good friends.
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So Dr.
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Maya Angelou told us all these amazing stories about their friendship and everything else.
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And Carlos, I felt so honored and so privileged to be not in their company and listening to these wonderful stories about their lives in America and Dr.
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Maya Angelou when she went to Africa as well.
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It was just priceless, priceless.
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I wouldn't change any of it.
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No regrets.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I mean, both Maya Angelou and James Baldwin, you know, their writing is still so powerful and still so resonant.
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Yeah.
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Why do you think that's it as well?
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:16.400
It's a there, it's a lot of it is lived experience.
00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:22.240
Um, and from that, it will always resonate with people, um, globally, internationally.
00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:27.519
Um, regardless of age and culture, it will resonate.
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:28.480
Um, yeah.
00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:32.960
And I think that's also what is what is interesting about Pearl.
00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:53.200
Um, what is interesting is that this for her, there's a few times when Martina said to me certain things were the reason why she's dealing with Mansion the way she is and what she knows about him, it's a lived experience, which brings a whole other dimension to how you play it and how you approach it.
00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:54.160
Do you know what I'm saying?
00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:57.119
Well, if it's something you've heard of, that's something I've heard of.
00:17:57.279 --> 00:18:03.119
Or if it's something you've lived and experienced, it's a completely different um approach to it.
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:03.839
Of course.
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:04.480
Yeah, yes.
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:09.279
I feel like the other place is such a it's such a special part of the RSC.
00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:12.079
Um, I love the intimacy here, similar to the kiln as well.
00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:20.559
Um, do you feel like um the world um that happens you know in the spawn in Trinidad, you know, the precipice of um independence?
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:27.279
Do you feel like there's a big contrast to Strafford upon Avon, or do you think there are actually more similarities between the outside and the side than we think?
00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:32.319
I don't think there's any similarity whatsoever.
00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:47.599
Um, in terms of um what's happening in Trinidad and what's happening in the UK, I think there's a lot of similarities in terms of people coming to uh people coming to terms with what's really happening and having to find their voice.
00:18:47.759 --> 00:19:01.920
Um things like the digital ID and things like the NHS, um, Palantir being given the contract, people are actually finding their voice now and finally saying, uh no, we're not going to do, you're not going to do this to us.
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:05.279
You know, my health, my data, you're not selling it.
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:06.079
You know.
00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:15.039
And when you look into the company that is being sold to, you think, whoa, don't like what I'm digging up and researching about you, and so on.
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:23.039
So, um, in terms of that, Trinidad and the UK and Europe basically, um, a lot of similarities.
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:29.920
People are waking up, people are finding their voice and saying, um that you can't you can't do this to us.
00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:38.559
You know, so we will be independent, Trinidad, we will be sovereign, UK, you you know, Europe and so on.
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:39.920
Yeah, lots of similarities.
00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:40.799
Yeah, sure.
00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:44.319
Um, I love the intimacy of um the other place and the kiln as well.
00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:46.799
Um, are you an actor who likes to look out into the audience?
00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:48.000
Do you like to see people's faces?
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:48.880
No, no.
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:53.599
There's a wall there.
00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:55.839
So whatever you're looking at, you're not looking at it then.
00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:56.960
You that's a that's a wall.
00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:02.480
Maybe there's a window there or something, but there's a fourth wall and it's there, and you are in that space.
00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:04.640
That's also what I love about the kiln and here.
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:22.319
You're in that space, and that is your home, your room, your whatever, and the intimacy or whatever you have in there is in with in that confines of that wall, and the onlookers can make an eavesdrop and be part of it, but that space is yours.
00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:23.759
I love that, really love that.
00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:24.160
I love it.
00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:30.000
It means that you can get intimate, you can get quiet, you can get you know bold, and it's yeah, yeah, I love that.
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:30.880
Yeah, that's wonderful.
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.519
I mean, the last time you had the kiln was, of course, wipe a bowl.
00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:39.119
Yes, I mean, that was such a celebration of like West London identity.
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:41.519
Oh, we enjoyed that so much.
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:48.799
Um, it was a huge success for the kiln in that it was sold out most of the time and they brought it back or went on tour to the USA.
00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:52.799
And um, Zadie Smith, the writer, her first play.
00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:55.759
Um, she's so loved in America.
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:57.279
Really, really again.
00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:01.680
99% of the um ticket sales were you know sold.
00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:03.359
Yeah, love it, love it.
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:04.480
Yeah, it's amazing.
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:08.480
And of course, I think you've worked with Hindu Luper Singhem on a few occasions now as well.
00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:11.920
Um what is it like you know, working with her when you know what keeps bringing you back together?
00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:20.400
I love, I love the way she works, it's very organic, it's very let's try this, let's involve this.
00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:30.160
What happens if we okay, it's up to you now, take it for all of those, which actors love that, rather than that restrictive, well, this is the way it's always been done.
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:36.640
I don't know, let's just explore some things, let's throw the book out the window and just you know, and go for it.
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:41.119
Indre loves doing that, yeah, and actors love that as well.
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:43.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:48.160
I guess I'm with the old wife, and what was it about her that sort of attracted you to this character?
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:49.680
Oh, very much.
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:56.880
Oh, I loved that I had to play, not had, I love that I got to play three very, very different characters.
00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:59.519
Um, and one of the best compliments I got was.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:11.200
Um somebody just came up to me after the show and said, I think you're brilliant because you did three different characters and I saw three different people who were like, Thank you, and walked off.
00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:14.079
Okay.
00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:16.720
That was nice.
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:20.960
Yeah, I really did enjoy that.
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:30.559
Um, each time I came on as a three different characters, I wanted people to actually see those three different characters and not, you know, well the one that was before as well.
00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:32.240
So yeah, yeah, love that.
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:33.039
Of course.
00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:38.319
Um, as we mentioned earlier as well, there is so much sort of geopolitical tension um at the moment, you know.
00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.200
We saw you know the rise of performance at local council elections.
00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:45.359
Like there was recently also the United Kingdom march as well in London.
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:46.000
Yes, yeah.
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:48.480
Um, you know, are you worried about society?
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:52.960
You know, do you feel like plays like Driftwood can you know help society heal and bring people together?
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:54.960
Oh gosh, I hope so.
00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:03.680
That's some of the things that we hope that the play will resonate with people, um, particularly families, because it's a huge family play.
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.319
Um excuse me.
00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:22.640
Um I'm hoping that people take away that the situation with Pearl and also with Ruby, with your children, with not just your children, but with your children, your family, talk to each other.
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:32.079
Um secrets kind of don't work because uh sooner or later the cat will come out of the bag.
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:41.119
So I'm really hoping that people can find a place where they can it can resonate with them in that they go away and talk about it and say, you know, this has been bothering me.
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:44.079
I've wanted to talk to you about it, and I have not been able to.
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:46.799
And you know that situation that happens in the play.
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:52.559
I feel I felt that happened, and I need to resolve that.
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:55.519
I need to look at that and unpack it.
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:58.799
Um, I'm really hoping that people can go away and think about that.
00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:01.839
Um, and also the finding your voice thing.
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:03.279
Um, I'm going to vote.
00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:12.480
I've never voted before because I didn't believe in the political um situation, but now it is a voice that I have and I can affect change.
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:13.680
I'm going to do that.
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:17.839
Those are some of the things that I really hope that people can take away from the play.
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:22.880
Um come away thinking that, yeah, I I can do that.
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:25.759
Yeah, if she can do that, I can do that.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:26.880
Do you know what I'm saying?
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:28.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:40.000
And young women, Ruby, I just hope that it resonates with them in that, you know, look after yourself, take care of yourself, um, don't sacrifice yourself for the world and everything else.
00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:40.480
No.
00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:46.000
And I remember the one most wonderful quotes, um, and I live by it.
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:55.039
Um, Oprah Winfrey, my Angelou, Ian Levan Sant all talk about is the make sure your cup is full and running over.
00:24:55.440 --> 00:25:00.079
Um, fill yourself up first, and what runs over is what you give to others.
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:04.799
You cannot for you cannot give from an empty cup or an empty place.
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:07.279
So I totally live by that.
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:13.680
So I'm hoping that people also take that away from this in that you know, um, fill yourself up first.
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:14.559
Yes, absolutely.
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:16.319
I mean, for you, how do you do that?
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:17.920
How do you keep yourself filled up?
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:18.960
Um, meditate.
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:20.000
I'm yoga.
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:21.519
I did my yoga this morning.
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:23.759
Um, um, I really, really enjoyed it.
00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:25.599
I do that, I do meditate.
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:29.759
Um, that's one of the ways that I come, I center myself.
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:40.960
Um, I love yoga in that it allows me to stretch my body, you know, um just shift boundaries a little bit, stretch a little bit, breathe a little bit.
00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:43.440
All of those things are really, really important to me.
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:53.839
Um, yeah, self-care is paramount, um, particularly when you're doing something as um powerful as per, you know, the energy and the stamina to go through it.
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:58.559
Um, yoga, meditation, and just quiet time has really, really helped me.
00:25:58.720 --> 00:25:59.119
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:59.440 --> 00:25:59.920
Absolutely.
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:05.440
Um, I suppose you know going into London as well, you know, Stratford is a very beautiful, idyllic place.
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:09.039
Um, how do you expect sort of like audiences in London to be thought?
00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:13.279
We had a little taste of that here.
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:32.400
Um there's a lady, Elaine Grant, who organized a group of women from uh Birmingham and the Midlands, uh, and some from London to come to a matinee um uh performance and um African Caribbean predominantly, and they loved the show.
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:39.920
It's almost like the show came alive on another level because it resonated, a lot of it resonated with them.
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:45.759
Um there were moments when people were doing what they do, what African Caribbeans do when they're at home watching TV.
00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:49.759
You talk to the TV, and do that.
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:51.200
What are you doing?
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:52.960
We had a little bit of that as well.
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:57.440
And when there were quotes that they recognized from their childhood, they repeated it.
00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:00.799
So it was just it was wonderful for us.
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:02.799
It was like oxygen for us on stage.
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:05.359
We were like, yes, this is exactly what we wanted.
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:13.839
It's reaching them, they're hearing it, they're remembering, yay, we're doing all of that, and we came off on a high that day.
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:19.759
Um, we met the ladies, um, mostly ladies, we met them afterwards, and they were just they loved it.
00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:22.720
They're gonna spread the word, they're gonna tell everybody to come and see the show.
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:26.480
And the Londoners were also saying they're gonna be coming to see it again in London.
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:28.720
So, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:35.039
We're expecting the London, particularly um Trinidadian groups that are gonna come.
00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:41.920
Oh my excellency, this is our country they're talking about, and you know, so that's gonna be fun.
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:46.319
Yeah, we're gonna change the accents, they're gonna get different in London.
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:47.279
What words?
00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:49.599
Yeah, we're gonna get very Trinity.
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:58.720
We're gonna have to get very, very Trinidad in London because the Trinidadians are coming and they want to hear their accent on stage.
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:04.480
All its you know, beauty and everything else, they want to hear that.
00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:07.359
So we as performers have said that right, that's it.
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:13.039
We're gonna up the ante in terms of the accent once we're in um in kiln in London.
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:13.279
Yeah.
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:15.759
Do you think you'll go to Trinidad as well at some point after the show?
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:22.880
So um, that's touch wood.
00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:24.319
That would be wonderful.
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:33.440
That would be really, really wonderful for a play about Trinidad that is so so Trinidad um to go to Trinidad and perform there.
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:34.319
They love it.
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:34.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:35.680
Absolutely.
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:37.519
Um, I guess that's the last question.
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:43.920
Um, yeah, you know, what do you um having done the show for a few weeks now, what are you sort of like learning about yourself through doing this?
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:46.880
What am I learning about myself?
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:49.759
Um, I have more stamina than I thought.
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:54.480
Uh what am I learning about myself?
00:28:54.640 --> 00:29:10.160
Um, you really all the things that I'm always really good at, you know, in terms of responsibility to a character and playing her and loving her and not doing any of the silly things like you know, disapproving of anything about her.
00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:11.359
No, none of that.
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:13.440
Just digging into her.
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.960
And also, I'm loving finding new things.
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:19.440
You know, every performance you find something else.
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:22.240
And of course, I never stop looking at the script.
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:24.640
You keep looking at the script over and over again.
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:31.680
Every day, go back on the script and finding new things, finding new ways to say something, and something somebody says about the character.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:42.559
You think, oh, okay, I'm gonna see if I can look at it this way and respond this way and see how that all those lovely things, the things that I like about how I approach my work.
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:43.839
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:46.640
Keeps it exciting and keeps it fresh for me as well.
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:48.799
You know, yeah, so yeah, yeah.
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:49.680
Absolutely.
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:52.319
Alan Thomas, thank you so much for talking to us though.
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:53.359
Thank you.
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:54.400
Thank you.
00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:13.359
Up close with Palmas.
00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:17.839
Celebrating art, entertainment, and the human service.
00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:28.800
Ellen Thomas, thank you so much for sitting down the bus today.
00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:29.600
Thank you.
00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:36.799
Um, just for the, you know, it's Martina Ledz, um, debut player as a writer, but she's a very accomplished actress herself.
00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:42.000
Um, did you find reading the script, you know, by having been written by a fellow actor?
00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:45.039
Did it have a different sort of rhythm for your performance?
00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:45.679
No.
00:00:46.079 --> 00:00:47.920
I admire her as an actress.
00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:51.679
So reading the script, I just thought, oh my goodness, and she directs as well.
00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:54.240
This woman is a triple threat.
00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:55.759
You know.
00:00:56.079 --> 00:00:57.840
Um, no, no, no, no, no.
00:00:58.159 --> 00:00:59.280
Um, loved it.
00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:04.400
The first time I read the play, I totally loved it, and I wanted it.
00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:10.079
It was that it was like, okay, I'm going to be seen for this, and I'm going to do the homework.
00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:13.680
So I did a bit of homework before going to the casting.
00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:18.159
And um also, it's my first time working at the RSE.
00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:22.959
It's one of the uh credits I don't have on my my biography, my CV.
00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:25.920
So I said, mmm, it's a double whammy.
00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:28.079
Let's see if we can get this job.
00:01:28.319 --> 00:01:30.799
So that was um some of the first thoughts, yeah.
00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:31.680
Yeah, absolutely.
00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:34.959
I mean the play deals with some very dark themes.
00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:39.120
Um, you know, it has you know very gothic, you know, family secrets inside it as well.
00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:45.920
Um, how do you sort of like maintain that sort of stamina to do you know a two-hour, 40-minute play with all this geopolitics going on as well?
00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:47.040
No, I know.
00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:51.120
It's challenging, but I could understand why the RSC wanted to do it.
00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:58.319
It is very Shakespearean in its depth and breadth and characters, big, bold characters.
00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:00.480
So I could see why they wanted to do it.
00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:14.159
But um also I find it fascinating that in the play said in 1956, we're in 2026, some of the themes are still so resonant, so current.
00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:19.120
Venezuela um Haiti.
00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:22.479
Just like, oh my goodness, I don't believe this is happening.
00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:23.439
It's I mean what?
00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:30.879
It's 50, 60 years later, and the Americans in that situation all happening all over again.
00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:33.360
It's almost like no lessons learned.
00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:34.719
So, do you know what I'm saying?
00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:36.080
It's quite scary, actually.
00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:37.199
It really is.
00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:55.680
When we were reading the play in the rehearsal, we we just couldn't believe how it resonated with what was going on today, not just in terms of immigrants and families uh moving around to better themselves and create lives for themselves, not just that, but also the the war situation.
00:02:55.759 --> 00:03:01.919
Yes, it really, really, it totally was a wake-up call for most of us in the rehearsal room.
00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:02.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:03.039
Absolutely.
00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:06.639
I mean, like the fact that you know so much has also like not changed in that time.
00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:07.120
You know, yeah.
00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:11.039
What do you think that's all like tells us about humanity and like the human condition?
00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:20.719
Well, history does say um when it goes left unchecked, challenges left unchecked, it will repeat itself, and that's exactly what is happening.
00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:25.039
You know, I find it it can it connects for me also with the Windrush generation.
00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:26.400
I'm sure you've heard about them.
00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:33.439
Um the Windrush generation, mostly Caribbean people, African and Caribbean people, who were involved in the Second World War.
00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:37.439
They came and they fought for the motherland, the United Kingdom.
00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:50.879
And then after the war, many of them settled in the UK, and um 50, 60 years later, they were being told, um, sorry, thank you, but um, can you go back now, please?
00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:52.159
Do you know what I'm saying?
00:03:52.319 --> 00:04:02.400
Um, a lot of them, their children were born in the UK, their grandchildren, they pay tax, all of those, all those things that you expect a good human to do.
00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:05.039
They do, and yet they get treated so badly.
00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:07.599
And I think it's basically it's kind of the same.
00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:11.759
What was happening in Trinidad, the way the Americans treated the Trinidadians.
00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:16.959
Just in fact, in the play, it says, You've been living in our backyard this whole time.
00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:20.480
The audacity of that, it hasn't changed.
00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:22.079
In fact, it's gotten worse.
00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:23.360
Do you know what I'm saying?
00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:27.360
Iran, I'm surprised um, you know, that Iran isn't thought of us.
00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:28.319
That's our backyard.
00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:29.920
Straight and foremost, it's ours.
00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:31.519
All of those kind of things.
00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:35.439
So again, history left unchecked keeps repeating itself.
00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:40.959
And I think that you know, we should we need to just keep a check now and just say, what is it?
00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:42.240
Checks and balances.
00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:42.720
Yes.
00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:49.519
Um, you know, we as a people, the global majority, will not deal with this anymore.
00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:50.959
I really do believe that.
00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:54.480
You know, we need humanity, it needs to be to reign.
00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:55.680
Do you know what I'm saying?
00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:57.600
Rather than individuals.
00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:16.720
Yeah, I just think that we again, I find resonance with Pearl in when she joins the PNM, the People's National Movement, when she joins that, it awakens this whole political side of her that she didn't know she had.
00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:18.079
And it gave her a voice.
00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:38.319
Suddenly, this woman who's just knuckled down, worked really, really hard, struggled, suffered, and everything else, suddenly joins her um uh decides she's going to vote for the first time, and keeps going to the meetings and meeting like-minded people and realizing that oh my goodness, I have a voice.
00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:40.160
I can affect change.
00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:42.399
And I think that is hugely powerful.
00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:44.000
Hugely powerful, you know.
00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:44.720
Definitely.
00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:53.519
I mean, the play happens, you know, why it's on the precipice of Trinidadian independence, which is so um, which is such an event for the time as well.
00:05:53.680 --> 00:06:02.319
Um, I mean, did you see there were many parallels between you know the custody battle over ALMA and you know the wider geopolitical situation at the time as well?
00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:21.600
The the AMA um kind of, yes, because as far as she's concerned, she's like good citizens, she's worked really, really hard for this place, and um she feels that she should be a part of own part of it, if not own it outright.
00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:22.560
Absolutely.
00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:26.000
I agree with I agree with her on that stuff.
00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:36.800
In fact, it's not just a home, it's a business, and she's the one that's actually on the ground doing the dirty work, you know, keeping it going, and so on and so forth.
00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:39.920
And whereas Mansion is just screaming off the profits.
00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:43.279
That sounds similar to a lot of what's going on.
00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:45.600
Do you know what I mean?
00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:46.560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:51.759
I agree with her fighting for Alva totally for sure, and that's what like the title drift with as well.
00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:54.959
It's sort of suggestion, something floating, something drifting as well.
00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:55.680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:06:55.920 --> 00:07:00.560
Um, yeah, I mean, like, how would you say that this like sort of like metaphor applies to you know people of Pearl's generation?
00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:01.759
Oh my god.
00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:14.480
Um, Pearl's generation, they struggled, they suffered, and Pearl's generation that the people that were if I do good work, if I work really hard, everything will be okay.
00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:15.920
Uh no.
00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:20.720
Ruby, her daughter, now realizes that as well.
00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:22.399
And she's out for herself.
00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:25.680
She's going to take, she's what I call a modern woman in the 50s.
00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:27.600
She's going, she's looking after herself.
00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:31.199
She's not giving her all to the country, to the all of that.
00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:31.920
No, no, no.
00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:33.040
It's me first.
00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:34.959
I have to take care of myself first.
00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:42.079
And so I totally agree with her, you know, and I love that Pearl actually finds her voice in the play.
00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:51.360
And I hope it resonates with audiences, you know, not just African-Caribbean women, but women, particularly women, and you have a voice, use it.
00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:52.560
Do you know what I'm saying?
00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:55.279
Yes, and people died to get the vote.
00:07:55.519 --> 00:08:05.199
In some countries, people died to give to give vote the suffragettes, the suffragettes, you know, died and suffered to give women a vote.
00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:11.199
And I think that it is um we have a right to actually use that voice.
00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:12.160
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:12.879
Absolutely.
00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:16.480
And it's interesting as well, you know, Powers' relationship with her children, yeah.
00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:18.079
It's quite a fiery relationship with a voice.
00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:19.120
Oh, yeah.
00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:21.839
That's that's a cultural thing.
00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:23.120
That's how you grow up.
00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:26.399
In one of the scenes, she was saying that children were left.
00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:43.360
Um I'm from an African background, I'm West African, and um, I was left, and I had some challenges with the play in the scenes where with Diamond, where my body kept thinking that this was my story, and I'm going, no, it isn't.
00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:47.039
This is Pearl's story, this is her trauma, not yours.
00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:49.600
Yours was not like hers, and so on.
00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:57.679
You had a grandfather, you were left with a grandfather who really loved you, thought you were the best thing since sliced bread, you know, showed you love and care and so on.
00:08:58.000 --> 00:08:58.879
Pearl wasn't.
00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:03.679
She was left with an aunt who beat her mercilessly because that was the norm.
00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:18.000
You know, children were not um expected to um talk back to parents and so on, and a slap and a you know, a lash were more frequent than sit down, let's talk about this stuff, you know, so on.
00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:22.399
So um I convinced myself this is not true story, so just get on with play.
00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:25.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:36.799
Those times were really seriously hard, and it was also a little bit left over from slavery, where people were beaten rather than talked to in a human way if they did something wrong.
00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:43.360
It was, and that's left over, and it was sad left over, I think, for African-Caribbean communities.
00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:44.879
Yeah, that still lingers.
00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:49.039
Yeah, I never thought about the link between slavery and physical punishments.
00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:55.759
Yeah, yeah, that's what they that's what they knew, and they were just mirroring, you know, and continuing what they knew, you know, and so on.
00:09:55.919 --> 00:09:56.960
So yeah.
00:09:57.519 --> 00:10:02.720
Yeah, I was interested in um as well, like working with uh Andrea Faj as well on developing that accent.
00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:05.440
Of the Trinidadian accent, yeah.
00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:08.000
Yeah, um, how did you begin to sort of like tap into that as well?
00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:10.320
Well, she was very, very helpful.
00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:36.000
Um, again, because we're uh in Stratford on Avon, and um the um the people who come to Stratford-on-Avon come to the um the other place and also as well, they there was a moment when I thought that people were, oh, it's a Trinidadian accent, or I'm not going to really understand it.
00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:49.200
Rather than this story is powerful and it is really, really clear, even if you don't understand the the accent as much, the story is visibly clear what's going on, and so on.
00:10:49.279 --> 00:11:04.159
And there were times in the beginning, especially the dream previews, where we felt that people were kind of thinking of it as oh, I can't, I it's too the accent is too difficult for me to understand, and I was struggling a little bit, and all the rest of it.
00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:13.440
Um, so again, Andrea helped us with that in that please can the accent not be quite so strongly Trinidadian, at least not here.
00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:38.399
And um, she led us into ways, certain words which will give you the Trinidadian feel and accent and um and love of language because they love their language, they love they they love how they um how they construe their language, which I totally love as well, which Martina has mastered totally.
00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:48.559
Um one of my favorite lines in the play is where Pearl says, I had was to make sure and take for myself what you owe me.
00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:55.039
You know, in other words, she could have just said, I just took what was mine, what was legally mine, because I'd worked for it anyway.
00:11:55.279 --> 00:12:01.279
No, she has to go into this wonderful description of I had was to.
00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:02.879
Do you know what I'm saying?
00:12:02.960 --> 00:12:04.480
I loved all that about the play.
00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:09.120
Yeah, I mean it's just a it's so clever when you're able to capture the essence of these characters, for sure.
00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:12.960
And the true daddients will come to see it and love that because that is exactly the goal.
00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:16.720
Yes, that's how my aunties all talk, yes, that's how my grandmother and mother talk.
00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:19.600
They never say things as simply as you know, ABC.
00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:22.480
They they they uh they enjoy it, I think.
00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:30.080
They they add flower to it, they make it all flowery and lyrical and all that, which is again a love for language.
00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:31.360
Yeah, love that definitely.
00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:34.879
I feel like Justin Audebert is such an exciting director as well at the moment.
00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:38.559
You know, he's very much taken Chichester into a new direction as well out there, too.
00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:40.480
Um, yeah, what was it like working with him?
00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:44.320
And you know, you have like particular objectives in mind for what you wanted to achieve with the play.
00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:51.840
Um well he he went to Trinidad and we were like, okay, thanks for taking us with you to do some research, of course.
00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:57.039
Um, yeah, it was an exploration both for him and for us in the same time.
00:12:57.200 --> 00:13:03.919
And once Martina came on board in terms of cultural expert, the play just took on a life of its own.
00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:08.480
It became really vivid and alive for all of us.
00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:09.360
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:15.840
Because she could tell you where the story comes from, um, the people who were involved, some of it personal, some of it not.
00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:26.080
The history, she'll tell you about the history of what that happened there, and the history of Calypso and the Calypsoans who put um politics in the music to get to the people.
00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:28.480
She told us, oh, it was wonderful, wonderful.
00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:29.919
The rehearsal process was good.
00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:31.120
Really, really good, yeah, yeah.
00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:32.960
I can imagine exploring.
00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:34.799
I can imagine.
00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:42.559
Um, I remember um you know, a few years ago, you know, you obviously did um the Amen Corner as well, the James Baldwin play, um, during the tricycle era as well.
00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:43.279
Yes, yes.
00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:48.799
Um, I feel like that was also another piece that was very much focused on you know black oppression and the domestic family as well.
00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:52.879
Did you see many sort of like parallels between this play and that play too?
00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:54.879
Um, not as much.
00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:59.440
In terms of Margaret in Amen Corner and Pearl.
00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:03.039
Yes, Margaret was married, Pearl wasn't.
00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:05.440
And I think that's where the similarities stop.
00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:20.639
But then they also had, and also Margaret didn't give her away her son, and Pearl did, because that was the sort of norm in her community of you know, other members of the family raising your children while you go look for work.
00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:33.759
Margaret didn't have that, but in terms of family, strong family ties and bonds, yeah, they are very, very similar, very strong women, hardworking, and also husbands or boyfriends who've let them down.
00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:36.240
So there were similarities in that.
00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:45.840
Um, and trying to steer their sons in the right direction, um, give them a way of life that is going to uh help them.
00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:47.279
Yeah, they were similar in that.
00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:50.159
Yeah, yes, yeah, but that's about it, I think.
00:14:50.320 --> 00:15:07.120
Also, Pearl, and Pearl is not religious in any way, shape, or form, and Margaret obviously was, is um so which I find interesting from Martina's point of view that she's not really because that period women were super, super religious.
00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:09.440
You know, Sundays was church, and that's it.
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:14.879
And also, I think if she was religious, she wouldn't have run a drinking club because you know, she wouldn't have done all things.
00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:17.360
She she says to her son, I'm no angel.
00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:23.120
And she means I've done some things and you know, lived.
00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:35.440
Um, whereas Margaret is completely really, really centered in the church, and all those um things that you have to abide by being uh you know preacher's wife and all of that.
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:40.000
So I think they're different in in um in certain ways.
00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:41.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:45.200
Yeah, but two very strong women, two very powerful women.
00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:50.799
Um, and Margaret knew her voice, whereas Pearl found hers much later on.
00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:51.840
So yeah, yeah.
00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:57.360
Well, you're always sort of drawn to these characters and these strong women who are sort of struggling against the system, too.
00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:01.679
Something about them resonates with me.
00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:03.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:04.080
Um, yeah.
00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:08.399
Currently struggling with the situation, the current world situation at the moment.
00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:08.799
Yeah.
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:09.440
Of course.
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:09.919
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:15.679
Um, it's interesting as well, you know, next year's 40 years since um James Baldwin passed away as well.
00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:18.799
Yeah, it's very fortunate to meet him when he came to see me.
00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:19.840
Really?
00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:21.120
What was he like?
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.240
Amazing, amazing, amazing man.
00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:25.440
You're one of those people.
00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:28.559
I also had the pleasure and the honor of working with Dr.
00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:32.799
Maya Angelou, Woon of a Rainbow Shaw, which was done at the Omeda.
00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:33.840
And Dr.
00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:37.679
Maya Angelou and James Hordon are very good friends.
00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:38.720
So Dr.
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:43.279
Maya Angelou told us all these amazing stories about their friendship and everything else.
00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:54.399
And Carlos, I felt so honored and so privileged to be not in their company and listening to these wonderful stories about their lives in America and Dr.
00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:57.440
Maya Angelou when she went to Africa as well.
00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:00.000
It was just priceless, priceless.
00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:01.840
I wouldn't change any of it.
00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:04.240
No regrets.
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:04.880
Yeah.
00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:05.279
Yeah.
00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:10.960
I mean, both Maya Angelou and James Baldwin, you know, their writing is still so powerful and still so resonant.
00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:11.279
Yeah.
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:12.960
Why do you think that's it as well?
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:16.400
It's a there, it's a lot of it is lived experience.
00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:22.240
Um, and from that, it will always resonate with people, um, globally, internationally.
00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:27.519
Um, regardless of age and culture, it will resonate.
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:28.480
Um, yeah.
00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:32.960
And I think that's also what is what is interesting about Pearl.
00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:53.200
Um, what is interesting is that this for her, there's a few times when Martina said to me certain things were the reason why she's dealing with Mansion the way she is and what she knows about him, it's a lived experience, which brings a whole other dimension to how you play it and how you approach it.
00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:54.160
Do you know what I'm saying?
00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:57.119
Well, if it's something you've heard of, that's something I've heard of.
00:17:57.279 --> 00:18:03.119
Or if it's something you've lived and experienced, it's a completely different um approach to it.
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:03.839
Of course.
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:04.480
Yeah, yes.
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:09.279
I feel like the other place is such a it's such a special part of the RSC.
00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:12.079
Um, I love the intimacy here, similar to the kiln as well.
00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:20.559
Um, do you feel like um the world um that happens you know in the spawn in Trinidad, you know, the precipice of um independence?
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:27.279
Do you feel like there's a big contrast to Strafford upon Avon, or do you think there are actually more similarities between the outside and the side than we think?
00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:32.319
I don't think there's any similarity whatsoever.
00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:47.599
Um, in terms of um what's happening in Trinidad and what's happening in the UK, I think there's a lot of similarities in terms of people coming to uh people coming to terms with what's really happening and having to find their voice.
00:18:47.759 --> 00:19:01.920
Um things like the digital ID and things like the NHS, um, Palantir being given the contract, people are actually finding their voice now and finally saying, uh no, we're not going to do, you're not going to do this to us.
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:05.279
You know, my health, my data, you're not selling it.
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:06.079
You know.
00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:15.039
And when you look into the company that is being sold to, you think, whoa, don't like what I'm digging up and researching about you, and so on.
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:23.039
So, um, in terms of that, Trinidad and the UK and Europe basically, um, a lot of similarities.
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:29.920
People are waking up, people are finding their voice and saying, um that you can't you can't do this to us.
00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:38.559
You know, so we will be independent, Trinidad, we will be sovereign, UK, you you know, Europe and so on.
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:39.920
Yeah, lots of similarities.
00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:40.799
Yeah, sure.
00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:44.319
Um, I love the intimacy of um the other place and the kiln as well.
00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:46.799
Um, are you an actor who likes to look out into the audience?
00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:48.000
Do you like to see people's faces?
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:48.880
No, no.
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:53.599
There's a wall there.
00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:55.839
So whatever you're looking at, you're not looking at it then.
00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:56.960
You that's a that's a wall.
00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:02.480
Maybe there's a window there or something, but there's a fourth wall and it's there, and you are in that space.
00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:04.640
That's also what I love about the kiln and here.
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:22.319
You're in that space, and that is your home, your room, your whatever, and the intimacy or whatever you have in there is in with in that confines of that wall, and the onlookers can make an eavesdrop and be part of it, but that space is yours.
00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:23.759
I love that, really love that.
00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:24.160
I love it.
00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:30.000
It means that you can get intimate, you can get quiet, you can get you know bold, and it's yeah, yeah, I love that.
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:30.880
Yeah, that's wonderful.
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.519
I mean, the last time you had the kiln was, of course, wipe a bowl.
00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:39.119
Yes, I mean, that was such a celebration of like West London identity.
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:41.519
Oh, we enjoyed that so much.
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:48.799
Um, it was a huge success for the kiln in that it was sold out most of the time and they brought it back or went on tour to the USA.
00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:52.799
And um, Zadie Smith, the writer, her first play.
00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:55.759
Um, she's so loved in America.
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:57.279
Really, really again.
00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:01.680
99% of the um ticket sales were you know sold.
00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:03.359
Yeah, love it, love it.
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:04.480
Yeah, it's amazing.
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:08.480
And of course, I think you've worked with Hindu Luper Singhem on a few occasions now as well.
00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:11.920
Um what is it like you know, working with her when you know what keeps bringing you back together?
00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:20.400
I love, I love the way she works, it's very organic, it's very let's try this, let's involve this.
00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:30.160
What happens if we okay, it's up to you now, take it for all of those, which actors love that, rather than that restrictive, well, this is the way it's always been done.
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:36.640
I don't know, let's just explore some things, let's throw the book out the window and just you know, and go for it.
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:41.119
Indre loves doing that, yeah, and actors love that as well.
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:43.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:48.160
I guess I'm with the old wife, and what was it about her that sort of attracted you to this character?
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:49.680
Oh, very much.
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:56.880
Oh, I loved that I had to play, not had, I love that I got to play three very, very different characters.
00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:59.519
Um, and one of the best compliments I got was.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:11.200
Um somebody just came up to me after the show and said, I think you're brilliant because you did three different characters and I saw three different people who were like, Thank you, and walked off.
00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:14.079
Okay.
00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:16.720
That was nice.
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:20.960
Yeah, I really did enjoy that.
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:30.559
Um, each time I came on as a three different characters, I wanted people to actually see those three different characters and not, you know, well the one that was before as well.
00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:32.240
So yeah, yeah, love that.
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:33.039
Of course.
00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:38.319
Um, as we mentioned earlier as well, there is so much sort of geopolitical tension um at the moment, you know.
00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.200
We saw you know the rise of performance at local council elections.
00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:45.359
Like there was recently also the United Kingdom march as well in London.
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:46.000
Yes, yeah.
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:48.480
Um, you know, are you worried about society?
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:52.960
You know, do you feel like plays like Driftwood can you know help society heal and bring people together?
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:54.960
Oh gosh, I hope so.
00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:03.680
That's some of the things that we hope that the play will resonate with people, um, particularly families, because it's a huge family play.
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.319
Um excuse me.
00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:22.640
Um I'm hoping that people take away that the situation with Pearl and also with Ruby, with your children, with not just your children, but with your children, your family, talk to each other.
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:32.079
Um secrets kind of don't work because uh sooner or later the cat will come out of the bag.
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:41.119
So I'm really hoping that people can find a place where they can it can resonate with them in that they go away and talk about it and say, you know, this has been bothering me.
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:44.079
I've wanted to talk to you about it, and I have not been able to.
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:46.799
And you know that situation that happens in the play.
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:52.559
I feel I felt that happened, and I need to resolve that.
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:55.519
I need to look at that and unpack it.
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:58.799
Um, I'm really hoping that people can go away and think about that.
00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:01.839
Um, and also the finding your voice thing.
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:03.279
Um, I'm going to vote.
00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:12.480
I've never voted before because I didn't believe in the political um situation, but now it is a voice that I have and I can affect change.
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:13.680
I'm going to do that.
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:17.839
Those are some of the things that I really hope that people can take away from the play.
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:22.880
Um come away thinking that, yeah, I I can do that.
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:25.759
Yeah, if she can do that, I can do that.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:26.880
Do you know what I'm saying?
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:28.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:40.000
And young women, Ruby, I just hope that it resonates with them in that, you know, look after yourself, take care of yourself, um, don't sacrifice yourself for the world and everything else.
00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:40.480
No.
00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:46.000
And I remember the one most wonderful quotes, um, and I live by it.
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:55.039
Um, Oprah Winfrey, my Angelou, Ian Levan Sant all talk about is the make sure your cup is full and running over.
00:24:55.440 --> 00:25:00.079
Um, fill yourself up first, and what runs over is what you give to others.
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:04.799
You cannot for you cannot give from an empty cup or an empty place.
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:07.279
So I totally live by that.
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:13.680
So I'm hoping that people also take that away from this in that you know, um, fill yourself up first.
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:14.559
Yes, absolutely.
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:16.319
I mean, for you, how do you do that?
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:17.920
How do you keep yourself filled up?
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:18.960
Um, meditate.
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:20.000
I'm yoga.
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:21.519
I did my yoga this morning.
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:23.759
Um, um, I really, really enjoyed it.
00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:25.599
I do that, I do meditate.
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:29.759
Um, that's one of the ways that I come, I center myself.
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:40.960
Um, I love yoga in that it allows me to stretch my body, you know, um just shift boundaries a little bit, stretch a little bit, breathe a little bit.
00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:43.440
All of those things are really, really important to me.
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:53.839
Um, yeah, self-care is paramount, um, particularly when you're doing something as um powerful as per, you know, the energy and the stamina to go through it.
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:58.559
Um, yoga, meditation, and just quiet time has really, really helped me.
00:25:58.720 --> 00:25:59.119
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:59.440 --> 00:25:59.920
Absolutely.
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:05.440
Um, I suppose you know going into London as well, you know, Stratford is a very beautiful, idyllic place.
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:09.039
Um, how do you expect sort of like audiences in London to be thought?
00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:13.279
We had a little taste of that here.
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:32.400
Um there's a lady, Elaine Grant, who organized a group of women from uh Birmingham and the Midlands, uh, and some from London to come to a matinee um uh performance and um African Caribbean predominantly, and they loved the show.
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:39.920
It's almost like the show came alive on another level because it resonated, a lot of it resonated with them.
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:45.759
Um there were moments when people were doing what they do, what African Caribbeans do when they're at home watching TV.
00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:49.759
You talk to the TV, and do that.
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:51.200
What are you doing?
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:52.960
We had a little bit of that as well.
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:57.440
And when there were quotes that they recognized from their childhood, they repeated it.
00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:00.799
So it was just it was wonderful for us.
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:02.799
It was like oxygen for us on stage.
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:05.359
We were like, yes, this is exactly what we wanted.
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:13.839
It's reaching them, they're hearing it, they're remembering, yay, we're doing all of that, and we came off on a high that day.
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:19.759
Um, we met the ladies, um, mostly ladies, we met them afterwards, and they were just they loved it.
00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:22.720
They're gonna spread the word, they're gonna tell everybody to come and see the show.
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:26.480
And the Londoners were also saying they're gonna be coming to see it again in London.
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:28.720
So, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:35.039
We're expecting the London, particularly um Trinidadian groups that are gonna come.
00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:41.920
Oh my excellency, this is our country they're talking about, and you know, so that's gonna be fun.
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:46.319
Yeah, we're gonna change the accents, they're gonna get different in London.
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:47.279
What words?
00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:49.599
Yeah, we're gonna get very Trinity.
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:58.720
We're gonna have to get very, very Trinidad in London because the Trinidadians are coming and they want to hear their accent on stage.
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:04.480
All its you know, beauty and everything else, they want to hear that.
00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:07.359
So we as performers have said that right, that's it.
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:13.039
We're gonna up the ante in terms of the accent once we're in um in kiln in London.
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:13.279
Yeah.
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:15.759
Do you think you'll go to Trinidad as well at some point after the show?
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:22.880
So um, that's touch wood.
00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:24.319
That would be wonderful.
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:33.440
That would be really, really wonderful for a play about Trinidad that is so so Trinidad um to go to Trinidad and perform there.
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:34.319
They love it.
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:34.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:35.680
Absolutely.
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:37.519
Um, I guess that's the last question.
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:43.920
Um, yeah, you know, what do you um having done the show for a few weeks now, what are you sort of like learning about yourself through doing this?
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:46.880
What am I learning about myself?
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:49.759
Um, I have more stamina than I thought.
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:54.480
Uh what am I learning about myself?
00:28:54.640 --> 00:29:10.160
Um, you really all the things that I'm always really good at, you know, in terms of responsibility to a character and playing her and loving her and not doing any of the silly things like you know, disapproving of anything about her.
00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:11.359
No, none of that.
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:13.440
Just digging into her.
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.960
And also, I'm loving finding new things.
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:19.440
You know, every performance you find something else.
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:22.240
And of course, I never stop looking at the script.
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:24.640
You keep looking at the script over and over again.
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:31.680
Every day, go back on the script and finding new things, finding new ways to say something, and something somebody says about the character.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:42.559
You think, oh, okay, I'm gonna see if I can look at it this way and respond this way and see how that all those lovely things, the things that I like about how I approach my work.
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:43.839
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:46.640
Keeps it exciting and keeps it fresh for me as well.
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:48.799
You know, yeah, so yeah, yeah.
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:49.680
Absolutely.
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:52.319
Alan Thomas, thank you so much for talking to us though.
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:53.359
Thank you.
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:54.400
Thank you.
