WEBVTT
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Welcome to the Unsealing You podcast.
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I'm Dr.
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Natalie Luke, your host.
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And since July the 20th, we've been conducting what I've called the trust tax investigation.
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We started with a question.
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How can someone who is successful, capable, and trusted end up being so burned out?
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In week one, we looked at when success becomes the trap.
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We saw how being dependable, capable, and willing to take responsibility can slowly turn into doing more than your share.
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You keep delivering, so from the outside, everything looks fine, even when it's costing you.
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Then in week two, we asked, why does this happen?
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We looked underneath the behavior at the expectations, the identity, the chronic pressure, and the nervous system.
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We began to see why high performers don't simply wake up one morning and decide to overwork.
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The pattern develops over time.
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Eventually, what is unsustainable can start to feel normal.
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Then in week three, we widened the lens to look at how the organization supports burnout.
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Because burnout isn't an individual problem.
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When dependable people repeatedly step in, solve the problem, absorb unfinished work, or compensate for unclear ownership, the organization can begin to rely on the workaround.
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The work gets done, but the underlying problem doesn't get fixed.
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And that is where the trust tax becomes expensive for the people, operations, and the business.
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So now we've reached the most important part of the investigation.
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What do we do about it?
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This week is about breaking the cycle.
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Because once you see the pattern, you have a choice.
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You can examine the story underneath it, the story being, I have to get it all done, everybody depends on me.
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I have to prove myself.
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I can't disappoint them.
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This is what leadership requires.
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Instead, you ask, is this story still serving me?
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And is it keeping the entire system stuck?
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This week we're going to explore what happens when we change the story, change the behavior, clarify responsibility, communicate differently, and build systems where trust doesn't mean one dependable person has to do it all.
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We've investigated the trust text.
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Now it's time to start replacing it with trust, alignment, and sustainable results.
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Today we're starting with Beth Sherman, an Emmy-winning comedy writer who spent decades learning how to connect with skeptical audiences.
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And now brings those lessons into the business world.
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Beth Sherman helps us to explore something essential to breaking the trust tags.
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How to stop performing the version of leadership we think people expect and communicate with enough humanity and self-awareness to build real trust.
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Beth, thank you so much for being on the Unsealing You podcast.
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I really appreciate you being here.
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It's my pleasure to be here.
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Thanks for having me.
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You're welcome.
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So you wrote for Letterman, the Tonight Show, Ellen, DeGenerous, the Oscars.
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You have seven Emmys, and now you're in boardrooms teaching business audiences what comedians know.
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And I could see the translation, but I want to hear it in your words.
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What made you believe that what you learned in those writers' rooms belonged in corporate America?
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What it distills down to, what what our skill is in comedy is building trust with skeptical audiences quickly.
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And and that is a transferable skill.
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And people think, oh, you do it, yep, but in comedy, you do it with humor.
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And and yeah, I mean it's humor, but what is humor?
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Humor is just humanity.
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And we build trust quickly on stage because we have to.
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If we don't connect pretty much immediately with our audience, nothing else we do works.
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And it's the same with business.
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It's just that the the consequences are a little bit more subtle.
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No, people are looking at you, but they're just not listening.
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So what my lane is, is showing people how to communicate in a way that actually makes people want to listen.
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And I made the transition because I I spent almost 30 years in in comedy and comedy writing.
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But throughout that time, I would have business leaders come to me when and to people like me when they wanted, when they had talks, uh TED talks, conference talks, things like that, a lot of commencement speeches.
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But things where they wanted, they they'd say, I don't want to be boring.
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And they would think that they were coming for jokes.
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But if you put jokes into the hands of people, well, who are not used to using them, it all just feels awful and false.
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It it feels it's what dad jokes are.
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It's fine for the people who love you, but you're not winning hearts and minds.
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So what I learned to do was add to to make things more engaging in the business world was find a way to do it in the voice of the speaker, in a way that is authentic to them and organic to the material, which means humanity, storytelling, and humor in the sense of helping people understand that what's funny, truth, recognition, those sorts of things, so that you don't need to lean on things that aren't, well, that are just forced in.
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And those clients invited me to speak at some of their organizations because they were so happy with how it went.
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And here I am now doing a lot of keynote speaking.
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Nice.
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So comedians have 30 seconds to get the room.
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No, we don't.
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Really?
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No.
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I would glove we have roughly zero seconds.
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Natalie, that's that's about what we have.
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Thirty seconds.
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Think in your head.
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I mean, if you look at any social media or anything really, and and you count, how long do you look at something before you go to the next thing?
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A nanosecond.
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Yeah.
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That's about what we have.
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And if you watch any stand-up special, if if you just speak to anyone who's you find interesting, you'll see that they don't it's immediate.
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It's a feeling, but that there's there's a reason that feeling happens.
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And it can be a look, a smile.
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It it is connection.
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It's it's emotional connection and making people feel seen, heard, and understood.
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Thirty seconds is just sit there listening to someone one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand.
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Yeah, I'm I'm thinking about what to make for dinner.
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Yeah.
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So what's the one thing every comedian knows in that nanosecond that builds the connection in business?
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Well, we do it, it it's one of those things that becomes an instinct.
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So the interesting part of what I do is sort of looking back and saying, What do we do?
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And there are small things, simply smiling, but also acknowledging the elephant in the room.
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Those sorts of things.
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What's the first thing people are noticing?
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What are they thinking about me, about the event, about what's happening, about the the world?
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We say the unspoken thing and and we acknowledge it because if you don't acknowledge that elephant in the room, it becomes a potential distraction.
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Even if it's as simple as someone's got a band-aid on.
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I mean, if I walked up on stage and and I had a band-aid on my cheek until I've s and I mean this as a CEO, let alone a comedian, are you thinking anything other than what happened?
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Yeah.
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I mean, even if it's just a, you know, a splint of something like that, it it's just it's simply because if if the voice people are hearing inside their heads is saying, huh, wonder how she got that, she walk into something and what was it?
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The voice they're not hearing in their head is yours.
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So I I think that's what we're very good at.
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And it doesn't have to be done in a disrespectful way.
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It can be, I mean, I've worked on speeches for people who were I I mean, a change management where they've got to go up in front of an all-staff and some stuff's gone down.
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So it might not be the time or place to get into the specifics of what's going to happen, but you c it it's distracting if if you don't acknowledge that something has happened.
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And it's not just a distraction.
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Instead of building connection and acknowledging that something has happened, you're actually pushing people away.
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It it actually has diminishing returns.
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So you're you're people are thinking, oh, I guess we're not gonna talk about that then.
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No, here things aren't gonna change.
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I guess we'll just pretend everything's fine and you know, it it it really it it's more essential than it seems.
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And it's just a small communication choice if you know what you're looking for.
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So when you're working with the leaders, have you ever worked with someone who's convinced that they didn't need this type of connection?
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Well, I would say it's it's sort of a self-selecting group.
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Okay.
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Most of the time leaders come to me is because they have an event where they they want to look good.
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I mean, these are successful people who understand that preparation and seeking help is is part of success.
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And and the willingness to admit the self-awareness and willingness to admit that maybe they don't they they can be coached.
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Every once in a while, a comms team will suggest someone see me or that we have a session, uh, which has to Because because I can say things they can't.
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I'm the outsider.
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And again, because my skill as a comedian is I'm look, I'm gonna make this person laugh anyhow on the call.
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We're gonna have 90 minutes, we're gonna have a good time.
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And they're gonna realize, okay, this isn't someone who's saying this isn't a dry academic sort of communication preparation.
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This is bouncing something off of someone who i i wants you to have fun.
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Does that make sense?
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Yeah, it does.
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It makes a lot of sense.
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Because the the person, the comms team person, their their head of communication or their in you know, whoever's working in internal comms can't say to to the head of the company, to the managing director, yeah, you're gonna put people to sleep.
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Or or simply, no one likes you.
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They can't say that.
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I can't say that, but I can help them come across with more self-awareness than perhaps they usually come across with.
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There you go.
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I I would find that that communication person would find you very helpful in that situation.
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Just blame it on that.
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Well, it and it isn't always that these people are I mean, uh very often the person who is running the company or the person who is that the expert, the reason they are the expert is because they are technically brilliant.
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I mean, they are brilliant at the technical things, but sometimes they have to communicate you know, that is not always a skill.
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That means that you can communicate those technical things with the the the the sort of racing file people in the company.
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Right.
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So so giving them a sense of how if they speak this way, how is that heard?
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What's in that thought bubble above the heads of their team or their audience?
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Once they get some insight into that, they think, yeah, I I could see that.
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For the past four weeks, the trust tax investigation has been following a pattern.
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A capable person becomes what others can depend on.
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More responsibility follows.
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They adapt, they compensate, they find ways to keep everything moving.
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And because the work keeps getting done, the pattern can become almost invisible.
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But this week, we're not just investigating the pattern.
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We're asking, how do we break it?
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And what we're hearing from our guests is breaking this cycle, it doesn't mean caring less, achieving less, or becoming less dependable.
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It means doing something differently.
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It can mean communicating for connection instead of trying to get everything exactly right.
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It can mean stopping the need to prove your value by how much you carry and advocating for the value you already create.
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It can mean separating your identity from being the person everybody needs and developing others instead of continually stepping in.
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And sometimes it happens in a single moment when you notice yourself about to please, perform, stay silent, or take something on that isn't yours.
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And choose differently.
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That's where rewriting your story begins.
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Because the story may say, I have to do it.
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They need me.
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It's easier if I just take care of it.
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But when we change the story, we change the behavior.
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And when enough behaviors change, we begin changing the system.
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So see the story, change the belief, set the boundary, build trust, lead differently.
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That's how we begin replacing the trust tax with trust alignment and sustained impact.
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Now, let's get back to the conversation.
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Yeah.
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That's nice.
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So the two of us are sitting in two different frameworks.
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You're building trust, helping people build trust quickly.
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And mine is about what happens when trust becomes a trap.
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And here's the image I keep coming back to.
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I was at a party there, and it was a party where there were several different physicians in the room.
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It sounds like a joke, but it it actually literally really happened.
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Three physicians walk into a living room.
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Yeah.
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Exactly.
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A urologist, an ED doc.
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And someone knocked a full bottle of red wine off the table and on to the floor.
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And before any of us could process what had happened, the ED doc was already on the floor with the paper towels.
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Like, I don't even know how he got the paper towels so fast.
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I was like stunned that the wine even fell, let alone like processing what to do with it.
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And what and my question is, what if that became his job to go to parties and clean up the wine after it spilt on the floor because he's so good at it?
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Because he can handle it so fast.
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And so I guess the question is from where you sit on the communication side, what do you see that happened in the room the moment that wine went on the floor?
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Well, I calling out the elephant in the room, I have to take one step back and say, I thought you were joking when you said it was a urologist and and an ED doc at the party.
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What kind of parties are you going to, Natalie?
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Actually, they were it was a euchre party.
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And uh my friend is a um pharmaceutical salesperson.
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Okay.
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You know, she's been in the business for a long time, so Okay.
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The word uplifting springs to mind, but that sounds very off-color in this context.
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So I would say, so so the doctor who who so so you're as I'm understanding it, it's that this is the person who jumps into action.
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Do you mean it as that that is an appreciated thing or sort of a thankless job, or people thought less of him?
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I I think I'm not following.
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Yeah.
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So I'm follow I'm following as much as I could until I went, oh, she wasn't joking.
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That was my inner monologue.
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Natalie has goes to good parties where they drop wine bottles on the floor.
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Yeah.
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I I would see it as a great thing.
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And so, like, where I'm I'm coming from on the trusted tax is that sometimes uh the same just because someone's really good at it means they always do it.
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And what where my uh focus is lying is hey, you don't have to keep doing the things that you're good at.
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You can stretch yourself.
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And so both the thing that they have in common is trust.
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We trust you to get this done always.
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So we constantly go to you.
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And then as the person who's trusted is like, well, I guess that's my job instead of stretching myself and saying no.
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Sure.
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So people is sort of a a matter of being taken for granted or or I guess golden handcuffs.
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I mean, it can be, I guess it can work either way.
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They can be great handcuffs or they can just simply be handcuffs.
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Gotta be honest, a lot of things, erectile dysfunction, handcuffs, things coming up on this podcast.
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I did not anticipate.
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That's what ED Doctor stands for for anyone listening.
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So Yeah, I think it's it's we we I know for sure from my own experience.
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I worked in a very particular niche of television, and it was made clear to me by agents and managers that, gosh, there's no way anyone could ever think of you doing something different.
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And I don't mean what I'm doing now.
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I mean I worked in comedy variety, which is is what the the late night shows were considered, late night and award shows and things like that.
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That's what they're considered in TV.
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And I had this wild and crazy idea that I might like to do what is considered scripted, so sitcoms.
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So not a world of difference.
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And everyone said, Whoa, slow your roll, Sherman.
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How could anyone imagine you doing something like that?
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Which, you know, is absurd when you think about it, but it's it's certainly something that happens.
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Yeah.
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I appreciate that.
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And so going back to what you're doing today, you're teaching people to read the room and to respond to it instantly, skillfully.
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But then um there's a version of that skill that can become a compulsion where the person who can always manage the emotion or temperature of the room just gets to be in the room instead of, you know, never gets to be in the room instead of always having to perform.
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Yeah, I I think what I'm hearing is that it it slows our own growth if if we are too amenable and if we are I guess people pleasing.
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Right.
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So it's important to be able to, while trust is important, we are the trusted person to do that thing.
00:22:09.460 --> 00:22:27.460
The communication skill is saying is is having the self-awareness and the willingness to communicate something in a way that doesn't frighten other people and say, I love doing this, I know I'm good at it, but I'd also love to stretch and do a bit of this and and do a bit of something else.
00:22:27.859 --> 00:22:50.420
So when you were um wanting to make that shift from the late night comedian, how did you how did you get how did you get people to recognize that you can do that and in a way say no and redirect or decline without feeling like, I don't know, you were losing the last part of yourself where you were uh successful?
00:22:50.740 --> 00:22:55.700
Well, it would be a better story if I actually had succeeded in scripted sitcom writing.
00:22:55.940 --> 00:23:12.900
I I was able to I get the meetings and I pitched a lot of shows, but the opportunities that kept coming to me were similar to the opportunities that had been coming to me, because that's where I'd built my reputation, and that's also just simply where I knew where I knew people.
00:23:13.140 --> 00:23:13.380
Right.
00:23:13.620 --> 00:23:30.099
So so people that I'd worked with before would start working on a new show, and they knew my work because we're all you know, we're all tempted to hire people that we've worked with before because it's a known quantity, and you're putting that baseball team together.
00:23:30.180 --> 00:23:34.099
You need someone who's good at this, and someone who's good at that, and someone that's good at the other thing.
00:23:34.980 --> 00:23:48.019
I also don't I certainly agree that being trusted for one thing can become a sticking point, but there's also something to be said.
00:23:48.660 --> 00:23:59.620
I I tried to hear in that process the half-glass, half full side of it, I guess, which is hey, I'm really good at this thing and a lot of people want me for it.
00:24:00.099 --> 00:24:00.660
Right.
00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:10.980
And and the this what I have realized now looking back into the transition of what I do now, which was all me, that had nothing to do with anyone in entertainment.
00:24:11.140 --> 00:24:14.819
Those were choices I made and and and opportunities that I saw.
00:24:14.980 --> 00:24:21.140
But when I sort of sat down with myself and said, What's the part of my job that I am really good at?
00:24:21.460 --> 00:24:24.259
In fact, I'm so good at it, it doesn't feel like work.
00:24:25.220 --> 00:24:29.859
And that was punch up, which is essentially what I do and and a lot of what I teach.
00:24:30.019 --> 00:24:33.620
In comedy, that's looking at things and spotting comedic opportunities.
00:24:33.779 --> 00:24:35.859
How can we make this more engaging?
00:24:36.500 --> 00:24:47.220
And in in comedy it's a little bit more written and intentional, but in the business world it's simply what you have now is simply dry information.
00:24:47.299 --> 00:24:49.140
How can we put more you in it?
00:24:49.460 --> 00:24:50.099
Right.
00:24:50.660 --> 00:24:57.620
So I think I feel that is very enlightening and I really love it because it's like, hey wait, I am good at this.
00:24:57.779 --> 00:25:01.460
Let me embrace it and go from there.
00:25:01.700 --> 00:25:01.940
Yeah.
00:25:02.019 --> 00:25:07.059
I mean we're I'd also reached an age where you know I'm I'm fifty three now.
00:25:07.220 --> 00:25:14.660
I've been doing this for a few years, but I'd I'd sort of I'd been doing I'd been in T V comedy writing and and stand-up.
00:25:14.900 --> 00:25:20.579
Stand up was uh TV comedy writing was always the the day job and writing for TV shows.
00:25:20.740 --> 00:25:26.019
I did a stand-up for a lot of years, but that was nights and weekends and and hiatus weeks.
00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:40.579
So it was looking at that and and thinking about I you know I I've done I I've I've done a lot of the things that I set out to do and doing more of it just it felt like my career was going laterally.
00:25:41.299 --> 00:25:41.779
I see.
00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:51.140
And I could get into my options were going into a management position and becoming head writer, which I did a few times, but I didn't enjoy it because you don't get to do the thing.
00:25:51.539 --> 00:25:51.779
Right.
00:25:52.099 --> 00:25:54.420
You have to do the other thing which is management.
00:25:54.660 --> 00:26:04.660
And having experienced a lot of people who were who did take those opportunities and didn't make any effort to get better at management, I didn't want to be one of those people.
00:26:04.819 --> 00:26:06.339
You know, I've worked under those people.
00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:08.019
Management is a skill.
00:26:08.900 --> 00:26:12.819
Not everyone has and I I'm not sure I do.
00:26:13.059 --> 00:26:17.460
So so I was looking for other places to go with what I was good at.
00:26:17.539 --> 00:26:30.180
So I I tried to read the room I guess in the sense of I'm being told this on the one hand it sounds like a negative but if I turn it around where is the positive to it?
00:26:30.500 --> 00:26:36.259
I love that I think that's vitally important to see that positive.
00:26:36.500 --> 00:26:51.940
And you've been in the rooms where power and pressure you've had power and pressure your whole career was there ever a moment on the stage in the writer's room in the boardroom where the skill you spent decades building suddenly felt like it was being used against you at all?
00:26:52.259 --> 00:26:57.059
Well I think the skill that worked for me works for me.
00:26:57.299 --> 00:27:01.940
I'll make that present tense the skill that works for me professionally is that I can acknowledge the elephant in the room.
00:27:02.180 --> 00:27:10.500
It's I find that when it did not work for me was when I was younger and I was a kid and it came across as just mouthing off.
00:27:10.900 --> 00:27:23.220
Teachers don't appreciate when you point out the elephant in the room or when you're the junior person on staff or parents often don't appreciate when you point out the elephant in the room.
00:27:23.460 --> 00:27:30.180
So the the sometimes the the the the I won't say lack of filter, because this is a business podcast and I'm trying to get work out of it.
00:27:30.259 --> 00:27:36.339
So it's not that I lack a filter, but there was some refinement to the filter and and also now I have credibility.
00:27:36.500 --> 00:27:53.940
Now I walk into a room and people I'm not inappropriate, but people expect there's going to be some sort of directness and the the way I do it and the way I try to show other people how to do it is is in a way that where you're using humor and and those sorts of things as a love language.
00:27:54.019 --> 00:28:05.859
You're using these things very intentionally to build connection and people can see that you're using them intentionally to build connection rather than to to well to hurt people.
00:28:06.180 --> 00:28:06.500
Yeah.
00:28:06.819 --> 00:28:07.779
That's fantastic.
00:28:08.019 --> 00:28:22.579
So do you have like one story where uh you had someone that was you were working with and it really turned things around where you sh they were able to showcase their ability to notice the room when they didn't before?
00:28:22.900 --> 00:28:23.059
Sure.
00:28:23.220 --> 00:28:31.460
Well a lot of my most the clearest examples would be working with people who were who are on stage or who are giving a talk.
00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:38.019
Because about half my work is is one-to-one and the other half is speaking at conferences and events and law firm retreats.
00:28:38.180 --> 00:28:45.940
A lot of lawyers who are very again technically brilliant but technical expertise does not convert.
00:28:46.099 --> 00:28:47.059
Emotion converts.
00:28:47.140 --> 00:28:59.620
So so sort of giving them the skills to to build the two well honestly it's it's I hear it's the feedback that I get it's preparing someone for a talk and and then they come back to me.
00:28:59.779 --> 00:29:05.539
And I work with I mean I have a client a lot of clients who are they'll come to me for a personal speech.
00:29:05.859 --> 00:29:19.859
Because a lot of the professional clients I work with are C-suite board level it's a lot of older guys and they appreciate what I do for them in the business world.
00:29:20.339 --> 00:29:24.740
But then they'll come to me and they'll say my daughter's getting married and I need a father the bride speech.
00:29:24.980 --> 00:29:40.579
And so I can help them I ghostwrite it for them and then we work together to I use their own words, I use their own stories, but but it's something so that it's got it really it's it's authentically funny and it and it also shares what they're feeling.
00:29:40.660 --> 00:29:48.259
And these are typically people who are not used to well experiencing feelings often but certainly expressing them.
00:29:48.500 --> 00:29:52.019
The feedback I get from them is my wife loved it.
00:29:52.180 --> 00:29:53.299
My daughter loved it.
00:29:53.539 --> 00:29:56.740
Everyone in the room came up to me and said this is the best speech I've ever heard.
00:29:56.900 --> 00:30:02.259
But that is less due to me it's due to them showing a side of themselves.
00:30:03.380 --> 00:30:22.819
It's the work with me where we were able to put so much of them into it being able to put that self-awareness into it being able to put that authenticity and the storytelling and specificity and all sorts of things these are all comedic devices but used to further a very serious and sentimental goal.
00:30:24.099 --> 00:30:27.220
So those are the ones that stand out the most to me.
00:30:27.380 --> 00:30:49.859
I mean they give a board they give a conference speech or something like that and they'll say yeah it went great people told me it went well but yeah you're the boss everyone's gonna tell you it went well I mean we know it was better than what it was before we worked together for sure and they certainly recognize that but it's when their wife says to them crying that was incredible.
00:30:50.099 --> 00:31:03.140
That's the person who look after 30 years together is not going to lie to them and and those are the transformations that where it's just it's so tangible that that I've made a difference and and that is that's a pleasure.
00:31:03.539 --> 00:31:13.220
So it's not only connecting with the audience and seeing like the thoughts that are possibly going over their head but it's also connecting with themselves.
00:31:13.539 --> 00:31:16.500
That's a great way to say it yes I'll be stealing that for the website.
00:31:18.339 --> 00:31:39.460
Yay Well it but it is it really is because they they are I think one of the most common mistakes people in business make when they are expressing themselves in any way, whether they're speaking to an audience or a client, prospective client or their team or colleagues, they think of themselves well I'm at work.
00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:41.140
This has to be work self.
00:31:41.380 --> 00:31:49.940
And well yes you you have to be a professional and you have to take the work seriously you don't always have to take yourself seriously.
00:31:50.180 --> 00:32:06.579
You can be a little bit authentic a little bit vulnerable and one of the things that we really understand in as comedians and what helps us connect so quickly is that we always prioritize we always prioritize connection over perfection.
00:32:07.539 --> 00:32:08.180
That's human.
00:32:08.339 --> 00:32:35.460
Humans aren't perfect it it's not about being vulnerable and weeping all the time but it's sort of confiding to someone or sharing with someone well the first time I tried this this is how it went or a little bit of the story that took you that that got you to where you are now because for people in power they often think well I I have to be credible and I I can't be vulnerable.
00:32:36.579 --> 00:32:53.299
It's it it's their humanity simply it it it's just being able to show your humanity and by the way as we move towards a more automated world your humanity the ability to display your humanity and connect with other humans is a skill that's only going to become even more important.
00:32:53.460 --> 00:33:04.420
I mean it was important before but even more important because we can have AI doing wonderful things and speeding up the process but ultimately whoever's buying is a person.
00:33:05.220 --> 00:33:08.980
Our customers are human our colleagues are human.
00:33:09.380 --> 00:33:11.299
Hum humans are still in the equation.
00:33:11.380 --> 00:33:14.019
Many of us still date and marry humans.
00:33:14.339 --> 00:33:19.380
So those human skills are are still very important.
00:33:19.859 --> 00:33:38.099
So the for the person who's listening right now who is really wanting to connect to that humanity and use it in a way that's going to, you know, help their communication with others to be more effective in their communication, how can they connect with you?
00:33:38.500 --> 00:33:46.740
They can find me on LinkedIn my name is Beth Sherman or they can go to my website which is the very cleverly named Bethsherman.com.
00:33:47.059 --> 00:33:49.940
You don't get daytime Emmys for nothing, Natalie love it.
00:33:50.099 --> 00:33:54.019
Thank you so much for being on the Unsealing You podcast.
00:33:54.420 --> 00:33:55.940
My pleasure thanks for having me.
00:33:56.180 --> 00:34:03.859
About four weeks ago we started this investigation with the question how does success become a trap?
00:34:04.339 --> 00:34:11.139
And after these conversations I don't think the answer is that high performers simply need to become more resilient.
00:34:11.380 --> 00:34:15.460
The trust text showed us something more complicated.
00:34:15.699 --> 00:34:24.579
It can begin when a person proves dependable people trust them with more extra responsibilities become normal.
00:34:24.739 --> 00:34:43.299
And because the person keeps getting the work done the organization may never see what their success is concealing unclear ownership, unfinished work, broken processes, poor communication or responsibilities that keep routing to the same people.
00:34:43.539 --> 00:34:48.900
Eventually the workaround becomes the way the organization operates.
00:34:49.299 --> 00:34:55.699
The person pays through overwork, lost energy, disengagement or burnout.
00:34:55.940 --> 00:35:09.059
The organization pays through rework, higher cost, turnover, lost capacity, and the problems that remain hidden because someone keeps compensating for them.
00:35:09.299 --> 00:35:14.420
But throughout this investigation we discovered something underneath all of it.
00:35:14.579 --> 00:35:18.819
There is often a story keeping the pattern alive.
00:35:19.139 --> 00:35:23.299
I have to get it done everybody depends on me.
00:35:23.539 --> 00:35:33.380
If I don't step in, who will I need to prove that I belong here leadership means caring more.
00:35:34.339 --> 00:35:42.900
These stories have helped us to become successful but they can also keep us and the people around us stuck.
00:35:43.219 --> 00:35:50.179
And that is why the trust tax investigation leads directly to the Rewrite Your Story event.
00:35:50.339 --> 00:36:08.420
On October 15th at Walsh College in Troy, Michigan, Merritt Kahn and I are bringing this work into the room for a full day leadership experience followed by Merritt's live one-woman theatrical comedy show optimistic personality disorder.
00:36:08.659 --> 00:36:10.819
Makes me smile every time I say it.
00:36:11.059 --> 00:36:25.380
Because understanding the pattern is only the beginning at Rewrite Your Story we're gonna see the story that's driving your patterns changing the beliefs that keep it going and setting boundaries to clarify ownership.
00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:38.819
Building systems of trust instead of systems that depend on someone continually rescuing them and ultimately learning how to create results without burning out the people responsible for producing them.
00:36:38.980 --> 00:36:42.179
The workshop helps you see the story.
00:36:42.420 --> 00:36:45.380
The comedy helps you let it go.
00:36:45.940 --> 00:36:50.099
And maybe that's the most important thing this investigation has shown us.
00:36:50.259 --> 00:36:53.459
You don't have to abandon your ambition.
00:36:53.779 --> 00:36:58.579
You don't have to stop being dependable and you don't have to care less.
00:36:58.739 --> 00:37:02.659
You can rewrite the story that says your value comes from how much you carry.
00:37:02.899 --> 00:37:15.619
You can develop other people you can share responsibility you can build trust without becoming trapped by it and you can lead in a way that lifts others and releases you.
00:37:15.779 --> 00:37:29.859
Rewrite your story break the cycle lead differently I'd love to see you and your team on October the 15th at Walsh College in Troy Michigan
00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:04.560
Welcome to the Unsealing You podcast.
00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:05.359
I'm Dr.
00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:07.280
Natalie Luke, your host.
00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:14.079
And since July the 20th, we've been conducting what I've called the trust tax investigation.
00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:16.320
We started with a question.
00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:22.319
How can someone who is successful, capable, and trusted end up being so burned out?
00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:27.040
In week one, we looked at when success becomes the trap.
00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:35.759
We saw how being dependable, capable, and willing to take responsibility can slowly turn into doing more than your share.
00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:42.800
You keep delivering, so from the outside, everything looks fine, even when it's costing you.
00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:47.280
Then in week two, we asked, why does this happen?
00:01:47.520 --> 00:01:55.439
We looked underneath the behavior at the expectations, the identity, the chronic pressure, and the nervous system.
00:01:55.759 --> 00:02:02.079
We began to see why high performers don't simply wake up one morning and decide to overwork.
00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:04.560
The pattern develops over time.
00:02:04.960 --> 00:02:09.199
Eventually, what is unsustainable can start to feel normal.
00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:16.400
Then in week three, we widened the lens to look at how the organization supports burnout.
00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:19.759
Because burnout isn't an individual problem.
00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:34.000
When dependable people repeatedly step in, solve the problem, absorb unfinished work, or compensate for unclear ownership, the organization can begin to rely on the workaround.
00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:38.640
The work gets done, but the underlying problem doesn't get fixed.
00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:46.879
And that is where the trust tax becomes expensive for the people, operations, and the business.
00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:52.400
So now we've reached the most important part of the investigation.
00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:55.120
What do we do about it?
00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:58.240
This week is about breaking the cycle.
00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:02.640
Because once you see the pattern, you have a choice.
00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:10.000
You can examine the story underneath it, the story being, I have to get it all done, everybody depends on me.
00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:12.560
I have to prove myself.
00:03:12.799 --> 00:03:14.879
I can't disappoint them.
00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:18.239
This is what leadership requires.
00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:23.359
Instead, you ask, is this story still serving me?
00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:28.000
And is it keeping the entire system stuck?
00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:45.680
This week we're going to explore what happens when we change the story, change the behavior, clarify responsibility, communicate differently, and build systems where trust doesn't mean one dependable person has to do it all.
00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:48.479
We've investigated the trust text.
00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:55.439
Now it's time to start replacing it with trust, alignment, and sustainable results.
00:03:55.680 --> 00:04:04.879
Today we're starting with Beth Sherman, an Emmy-winning comedy writer who spent decades learning how to connect with skeptical audiences.
00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:09.039
And now brings those lessons into the business world.
00:04:09.359 --> 00:04:16.000
Beth Sherman helps us to explore something essential to breaking the trust tags.
00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:28.960
How to stop performing the version of leadership we think people expect and communicate with enough humanity and self-awareness to build real trust.
00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:34.800
Beth, thank you so much for being on the Unsealing You podcast.
00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:37.199
I really appreciate you being here.
00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:39.199
It's my pleasure to be here.
00:04:39.280 --> 00:04:40.240
Thanks for having me.
00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:41.360
You're welcome.
00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:48.240
So you wrote for Letterman, the Tonight Show, Ellen, DeGenerous, the Oscars.
00:04:48.400 --> 00:04:55.600
You have seven Emmys, and now you're in boardrooms teaching business audiences what comedians know.
00:04:56.079 --> 00:05:00.639
And I could see the translation, but I want to hear it in your words.
00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:07.680
What made you believe that what you learned in those writers' rooms belonged in corporate America?
00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:16.240
What it distills down to, what what our skill is in comedy is building trust with skeptical audiences quickly.
00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:19.200
And and that is a transferable skill.
00:05:19.520 --> 00:05:22.640
And people think, oh, you do it, yep, but in comedy, you do it with humor.
00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:25.680
And and yeah, I mean it's humor, but what is humor?
00:05:25.840 --> 00:05:27.520
Humor is just humanity.
00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:32.320
And we build trust quickly on stage because we have to.
00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:36.960
If we don't connect pretty much immediately with our audience, nothing else we do works.
00:05:37.439 --> 00:05:39.520
And it's the same with business.
00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:43.120
It's just that the the consequences are a little bit more subtle.
00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:47.360
No, people are looking at you, but they're just not listening.
00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:55.120
So what my lane is, is showing people how to communicate in a way that actually makes people want to listen.
00:05:55.360 --> 00:06:01.360
And I made the transition because I I spent almost 30 years in in comedy and comedy writing.
00:06:01.520 --> 00:06:13.920
But throughout that time, I would have business leaders come to me when and to people like me when they wanted, when they had talks, uh TED talks, conference talks, things like that, a lot of commencement speeches.
00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:18.240
But things where they wanted, they they'd say, I don't want to be boring.
00:06:19.200 --> 00:06:22.160
And they would think that they were coming for jokes.
00:06:22.400 --> 00:06:32.000
But if you put jokes into the hands of people, well, who are not used to using them, it all just feels awful and false.
00:06:32.400 --> 00:06:34.560
It it feels it's what dad jokes are.
00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:38.800
It's fine for the people who love you, but you're not winning hearts and minds.
00:06:39.280 --> 00:07:08.960
So what I learned to do was add to to make things more engaging in the business world was find a way to do it in the voice of the speaker, in a way that is authentic to them and organic to the material, which means humanity, storytelling, and humor in the sense of helping people understand that what's funny, truth, recognition, those sorts of things, so that you don't need to lean on things that aren't, well, that are just forced in.
00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:15.680
And those clients invited me to speak at some of their organizations because they were so happy with how it went.
00:07:15.840 --> 00:07:19.200
And here I am now doing a lot of keynote speaking.
00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:20.879
Nice.
00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:25.520
So comedians have 30 seconds to get the room.
00:07:25.760 --> 00:07:27.200
No, we don't.
00:07:27.520 --> 00:07:28.160
Really?
00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:29.200
No.
00:07:29.520 --> 00:07:32.560
I would glove we have roughly zero seconds.
00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:34.960
Natalie, that's that's about what we have.
00:07:35.280 --> 00:07:36.240
Thirty seconds.
00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:37.520
Think in your head.
00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:47.040
I mean, if you look at any social media or anything really, and and you count, how long do you look at something before you go to the next thing?
00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:48.480
A nanosecond.
00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:49.280
Yeah.
00:07:49.520 --> 00:07:50.960
That's about what we have.
00:07:51.360 --> 00:08:00.160
And if you watch any stand-up special, if if you just speak to anyone who's you find interesting, you'll see that they don't it's immediate.
00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:04.320
It's a feeling, but that there's there's a reason that feeling happens.
00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:06.480
And it can be a look, a smile.
00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:08.240
It it is connection.
00:08:08.320 --> 00:08:14.640
It's it's emotional connection and making people feel seen, heard, and understood.
00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:23.200
Thirty seconds is just sit there listening to someone one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand.
00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:28.000
Yeah, I'm I'm thinking about what to make for dinner.
00:08:28.400 --> 00:08:28.879
Yeah.
00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:36.960
So what's the one thing every comedian knows in that nanosecond that builds the connection in business?
00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:40.399
Well, we do it, it it's one of those things that becomes an instinct.
00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:46.399
So the interesting part of what I do is sort of looking back and saying, What do we do?
00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:52.480
And there are small things, simply smiling, but also acknowledging the elephant in the room.
00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:53.600
Those sorts of things.
00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:55.200
What's the first thing people are noticing?
00:08:55.279 --> 00:09:00.080
What are they thinking about me, about the event, about what's happening, about the the world?
00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:09.200
We say the unspoken thing and and we acknowledge it because if you don't acknowledge that elephant in the room, it becomes a potential distraction.
00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:12.720
Even if it's as simple as someone's got a band-aid on.
00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:24.559
I mean, if I walked up on stage and and I had a band-aid on my cheek until I've s and I mean this as a CEO, let alone a comedian, are you thinking anything other than what happened?
00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:26.000
Yeah.
00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:37.120
I mean, even if it's just a, you know, a splint of something like that, it it's just it's simply because if if the voice people are hearing inside their heads is saying, huh, wonder how she got that, she walk into something and what was it?
00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:40.159
The voice they're not hearing in their head is yours.
00:09:40.320 --> 00:09:43.279
So I I think that's what we're very good at.
00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:46.080
And it doesn't have to be done in a disrespectful way.
00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:56.320
It can be, I mean, I've worked on speeches for people who were I I mean, a change management where they've got to go up in front of an all-staff and some stuff's gone down.
00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:09.279
So it might not be the time or place to get into the specifics of what's going to happen, but you c it it's distracting if if you don't acknowledge that something has happened.
00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:11.840
And it's not just a distraction.
00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:18.240
Instead of building connection and acknowledging that something has happened, you're actually pushing people away.
00:10:18.560 --> 00:10:20.480
It it actually has diminishing returns.
00:10:20.560 --> 00:10:24.159
So you're you're people are thinking, oh, I guess we're not gonna talk about that then.
00:10:24.560 --> 00:10:26.240
No, here things aren't gonna change.
00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:34.480
I guess we'll just pretend everything's fine and you know, it it it really it it's more essential than it seems.
00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:37.920
And it's just a small communication choice if you know what you're looking for.
00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:45.200
So when you're working with the leaders, have you ever worked with someone who's convinced that they didn't need this type of connection?
00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:48.560
Well, I would say it's it's sort of a self-selecting group.
00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:49.200
Okay.
00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:56.080
Most of the time leaders come to me is because they have an event where they they want to look good.
00:10:56.159 --> 00:11:03.680
I mean, these are successful people who understand that preparation and seeking help is is part of success.
00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:12.639
And and the willingness to admit the self-awareness and willingness to admit that maybe they don't they they can be coached.
00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:23.360
Every once in a while, a comms team will suggest someone see me or that we have a session, uh, which has to Because because I can say things they can't.
00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:25.600
I'm the outsider.
00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:31.920
And again, because my skill as a comedian is I'm look, I'm gonna make this person laugh anyhow on the call.
00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:34.240
We're gonna have 90 minutes, we're gonna have a good time.
00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:43.519
And they're gonna realize, okay, this isn't someone who's saying this isn't a dry academic sort of communication preparation.
00:11:43.680 --> 00:11:49.680
This is bouncing something off of someone who i i wants you to have fun.
00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:50.879
Does that make sense?
00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:52.159
Yeah, it does.
00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:54.159
It makes a lot of sense.
00:11:54.800 --> 00:12:06.879
Because the the person, the comms team person, their their head of communication or their in you know, whoever's working in internal comms can't say to to the head of the company, to the managing director, yeah, you're gonna put people to sleep.
00:12:07.040 --> 00:12:09.200
Or or simply, no one likes you.
00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:10.080
They can't say that.
00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:16.720
I can't say that, but I can help them come across with more self-awareness than perhaps they usually come across with.
00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:17.840
There you go.
00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:23.920
I I would find that that communication person would find you very helpful in that situation.
00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:25.759
Just blame it on that.
00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:39.040
Well, it and it isn't always that these people are I mean, uh very often the person who is running the company or the person who is that the expert, the reason they are the expert is because they are technically brilliant.
00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:46.720
I mean, they are brilliant at the technical things, but sometimes they have to communicate you know, that is not always a skill.
00:12:47.040 --> 00:12:54.720
That means that you can communicate those technical things with the the the the sort of racing file people in the company.
00:12:55.040 --> 00:12:55.600
Right.
00:12:55.840 --> 00:13:01.360
So so giving them a sense of how if they speak this way, how is that heard?
00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:05.519
What's in that thought bubble above the heads of their team or their audience?
00:13:05.680 --> 00:13:09.840
Once they get some insight into that, they think, yeah, I I could see that.
00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:16.000
For the past four weeks, the trust tax investigation has been following a pattern.
00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.399
A capable person becomes what others can depend on.
00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:22.320
More responsibility follows.
00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:26.960
They adapt, they compensate, they find ways to keep everything moving.
00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:33.279
And because the work keeps getting done, the pattern can become almost invisible.
00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:36.879
But this week, we're not just investigating the pattern.
00:13:37.040 --> 00:13:41.200
We're asking, how do we break it?
00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:51.200
And what we're hearing from our guests is breaking this cycle, it doesn't mean caring less, achieving less, or becoming less dependable.
00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:54.960
It means doing something differently.
00:13:55.200 --> 00:14:01.279
It can mean communicating for connection instead of trying to get everything exactly right.
00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:11.840
It can mean stopping the need to prove your value by how much you carry and advocating for the value you already create.
00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:21.440
It can mean separating your identity from being the person everybody needs and developing others instead of continually stepping in.
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:34.320
And sometimes it happens in a single moment when you notice yourself about to please, perform, stay silent, or take something on that isn't yours.
00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:36.480
And choose differently.
00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:39.279
That's where rewriting your story begins.
00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:43.519
Because the story may say, I have to do it.
00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:45.279
They need me.
00:14:45.680 --> 00:14:48.399
It's easier if I just take care of it.
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:52.800
But when we change the story, we change the behavior.
00:14:53.040 --> 00:14:58.480
And when enough behaviors change, we begin changing the system.
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:07.680
So see the story, change the belief, set the boundary, build trust, lead differently.
00:15:07.920 --> 00:15:17.680
That's how we begin replacing the trust tax with trust alignment and sustained impact.
00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:20.560
Now, let's get back to the conversation.
00:15:20.800 --> 00:15:21.120
Yeah.
00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:22.320
That's nice.
00:15:22.560 --> 00:15:25.759
So the two of us are sitting in two different frameworks.
00:15:25.920 --> 00:15:29.920
You're building trust, helping people build trust quickly.
00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:34.000
And mine is about what happens when trust becomes a trap.
00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:37.440
And here's the image I keep coming back to.
00:15:37.680 --> 00:15:43.519
I was at a party there, and it was a party where there were several different physicians in the room.
00:15:43.680 --> 00:15:46.960
It sounds like a joke, but it it actually literally really happened.
00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:49.200
Three physicians walk into a living room.
00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:49.519
Yeah.
00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:50.320
Exactly.
00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:52.480
A urologist, an ED doc.
00:15:52.960 --> 00:16:00.480
And someone knocked a full bottle of red wine off the table and on to the floor.
00:16:00.800 --> 00:16:08.080
And before any of us could process what had happened, the ED doc was already on the floor with the paper towels.
00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:12.080
Like, I don't even know how he got the paper towels so fast.
00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:18.639
I was like stunned that the wine even fell, let alone like processing what to do with it.
00:16:18.800 --> 00:16:29.519
And what and my question is, what if that became his job to go to parties and clean up the wine after it spilt on the floor because he's so good at it?
00:16:29.680 --> 00:16:32.399
Because he can handle it so fast.
00:16:32.960 --> 00:18:25.860
And so I guess the question is from where you sit on the communication side, what do you see that happened in the room the moment that wine went on the floor?
00:18:26.100 --> 00:18:33.860
Well, I calling out the elephant in the room, I have to take one step back and say, I thought you were joking when you said it was a urologist and and an ED doc at the party.
00:18:34.019 --> 00:18:35.860
What kind of parties are you going to, Natalie?
00:18:36.100 --> 00:18:38.340
Actually, they were it was a euchre party.
00:18:38.500 --> 00:18:42.180
And uh my friend is a um pharmaceutical salesperson.
00:18:42.580 --> 00:18:42.660
Okay.
00:18:44.420 --> 00:18:48.980
You know, she's been in the business for a long time, so Okay.
00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:54.100
The word uplifting springs to mind, but that sounds very off-color in this context.
00:18:54.340 --> 00:19:03.779
So I would say, so so the doctor who who so so you're as I'm understanding it, it's that this is the person who jumps into action.
00:19:03.940 --> 00:19:10.340
Do you mean it as that that is an appreciated thing or sort of a thankless job, or people thought less of him?
00:19:10.420 --> 00:19:12.660
I I think I'm not following.
00:19:12.900 --> 00:19:13.299
Yeah.
00:19:13.539 --> 00:19:18.900
So I'm follow I'm following as much as I could until I went, oh, she wasn't joking.
00:19:19.140 --> 00:19:20.580
That was my inner monologue.
00:19:20.820 --> 00:19:27.620
Natalie has goes to good parties where they drop wine bottles on the floor.
00:19:28.019 --> 00:19:28.580
Yeah.
00:19:30.180 --> 00:19:32.420
I I would see it as a great thing.
00:19:32.660 --> 00:19:42.740
And so, like, where I'm I'm coming from on the trusted tax is that sometimes uh the same just because someone's really good at it means they always do it.
00:19:42.980 --> 00:19:50.420
And what where my uh focus is lying is hey, you don't have to keep doing the things that you're good at.
00:19:50.579 --> 00:19:51.779
You can stretch yourself.
00:19:51.940 --> 00:19:55.700
And so both the thing that they have in common is trust.
00:19:55.859 --> 00:19:59.059
We trust you to get this done always.
00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:00.819
So we constantly go to you.
00:20:00.980 --> 00:20:08.099
And then as the person who's trusted is like, well, I guess that's my job instead of stretching myself and saying no.
00:20:08.740 --> 00:20:08.980
Sure.
00:20:09.140 --> 00:20:14.339
So people is sort of a a matter of being taken for granted or or I guess golden handcuffs.
00:20:14.420 --> 00:20:16.579
I mean, it can be, I guess it can work either way.
00:20:16.740 --> 00:20:19.700
They can be great handcuffs or they can just simply be handcuffs.
00:20:20.019 --> 00:20:24.579
Gotta be honest, a lot of things, erectile dysfunction, handcuffs, things coming up on this podcast.
00:20:24.660 --> 00:20:25.620
I did not anticipate.
00:20:25.779 --> 00:20:28.579
That's what ED Doctor stands for for anyone listening.
00:20:28.900 --> 00:20:34.980
So Yeah, I think it's it's we we I know for sure from my own experience.
00:20:35.220 --> 00:20:47.220
I worked in a very particular niche of television, and it was made clear to me by agents and managers that, gosh, there's no way anyone could ever think of you doing something different.
00:20:47.380 --> 00:20:49.059
And I don't mean what I'm doing now.
00:20:49.220 --> 00:20:58.019
I mean I worked in comedy variety, which is is what the the late night shows were considered, late night and award shows and things like that.
00:20:58.180 --> 00:20:59.700
That's what they're considered in TV.
00:20:59.859 --> 00:21:05.539
And I had this wild and crazy idea that I might like to do what is considered scripted, so sitcoms.
00:21:05.859 --> 00:21:07.859
So not a world of difference.
00:21:08.019 --> 00:21:10.980
And everyone said, Whoa, slow your roll, Sherman.
00:21:11.140 --> 00:21:14.339
How could anyone imagine you doing something like that?
00:21:14.500 --> 00:21:20.259
Which, you know, is absurd when you think about it, but it's it's certainly something that happens.
00:21:20.579 --> 00:21:21.059
Yeah.
00:21:21.299 --> 00:21:22.900
I appreciate that.
00:21:23.380 --> 00:21:30.980
And so going back to what you're doing today, you're teaching people to read the room and to respond to it instantly, skillfully.
00:21:31.299 --> 00:21:48.259
But then um there's a version of that skill that can become a compulsion where the person who can always manage the emotion or temperature of the room just gets to be in the room instead of, you know, never gets to be in the room instead of always having to perform.
00:21:48.500 --> 00:22:00.579
Yeah, I I think what I'm hearing is that it it slows our own growth if if we are too amenable and if we are I guess people pleasing.
00:22:00.900 --> 00:22:01.539
Right.
00:22:02.420 --> 00:22:09.140
So it's important to be able to, while trust is important, we are the trusted person to do that thing.
00:22:09.460 --> 00:22:27.460
The communication skill is saying is is having the self-awareness and the willingness to communicate something in a way that doesn't frighten other people and say, I love doing this, I know I'm good at it, but I'd also love to stretch and do a bit of this and and do a bit of something else.
00:22:27.859 --> 00:22:50.420
So when you were um wanting to make that shift from the late night comedian, how did you how did you get how did you get people to recognize that you can do that and in a way say no and redirect or decline without feeling like, I don't know, you were losing the last part of yourself where you were uh successful?
00:22:50.740 --> 00:22:55.700
Well, it would be a better story if I actually had succeeded in scripted sitcom writing.
00:22:55.940 --> 00:23:12.900
I I was able to I get the meetings and I pitched a lot of shows, but the opportunities that kept coming to me were similar to the opportunities that had been coming to me, because that's where I'd built my reputation, and that's also just simply where I knew where I knew people.
00:23:13.140 --> 00:23:13.380
Right.
00:23:13.620 --> 00:23:30.099
So so people that I'd worked with before would start working on a new show, and they knew my work because we're all you know, we're all tempted to hire people that we've worked with before because it's a known quantity, and you're putting that baseball team together.
00:23:30.180 --> 00:23:34.099
You need someone who's good at this, and someone who's good at that, and someone that's good at the other thing.
00:23:34.980 --> 00:23:48.019
I also don't I certainly agree that being trusted for one thing can become a sticking point, but there's also something to be said.
00:23:48.660 --> 00:23:59.620
I I tried to hear in that process the half-glass, half full side of it, I guess, which is hey, I'm really good at this thing and a lot of people want me for it.
00:24:00.099 --> 00:24:00.660
Right.
00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:10.980
And and the this what I have realized now looking back into the transition of what I do now, which was all me, that had nothing to do with anyone in entertainment.
00:24:11.140 --> 00:24:14.819
Those were choices I made and and and opportunities that I saw.
00:24:14.980 --> 00:24:21.140
But when I sort of sat down with myself and said, What's the part of my job that I am really good at?
00:24:21.460 --> 00:24:24.259
In fact, I'm so good at it, it doesn't feel like work.
00:24:25.220 --> 00:24:29.859
And that was punch up, which is essentially what I do and and a lot of what I teach.
00:24:30.019 --> 00:24:33.620
In comedy, that's looking at things and spotting comedic opportunities.
00:24:33.779 --> 00:24:35.859
How can we make this more engaging?
00:24:36.500 --> 00:24:47.220
And in in comedy it's a little bit more written and intentional, but in the business world it's simply what you have now is simply dry information.
00:24:47.299 --> 00:24:49.140
How can we put more you in it?
00:24:49.460 --> 00:24:50.099
Right.
00:24:50.660 --> 00:24:57.620
So I think I feel that is very enlightening and I really love it because it's like, hey wait, I am good at this.
00:24:57.779 --> 00:25:01.460
Let me embrace it and go from there.
00:25:01.700 --> 00:25:01.940
Yeah.
00:25:02.019 --> 00:25:07.059
I mean we're I'd also reached an age where you know I'm I'm fifty three now.
00:25:07.220 --> 00:25:14.660
I've been doing this for a few years, but I'd I'd sort of I'd been doing I'd been in T V comedy writing and and stand-up.
00:25:14.900 --> 00:25:20.579
Stand up was uh TV comedy writing was always the the day job and writing for TV shows.
00:25:20.740 --> 00:25:26.019
I did a stand-up for a lot of years, but that was nights and weekends and and hiatus weeks.
00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:40.579
So it was looking at that and and thinking about I you know I I've done I I've I've done a lot of the things that I set out to do and doing more of it just it felt like my career was going laterally.
00:25:41.299 --> 00:25:41.779
I see.
00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:51.140
And I could get into my options were going into a management position and becoming head writer, which I did a few times, but I didn't enjoy it because you don't get to do the thing.
00:25:51.539 --> 00:25:51.779
Right.
00:25:52.099 --> 00:25:54.420
You have to do the other thing which is management.
00:25:54.660 --> 00:26:04.660
And having experienced a lot of people who were who did take those opportunities and didn't make any effort to get better at management, I didn't want to be one of those people.
00:26:04.819 --> 00:26:06.339
You know, I've worked under those people.
00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:08.019
Management is a skill.
00:26:08.900 --> 00:26:12.819
Not everyone has and I I'm not sure I do.
00:26:13.059 --> 00:26:17.460
So so I was looking for other places to go with what I was good at.
00:26:17.539 --> 00:26:30.180
So I I tried to read the room I guess in the sense of I'm being told this on the one hand it sounds like a negative but if I turn it around where is the positive to it?
00:26:30.500 --> 00:26:36.259
I love that I think that's vitally important to see that positive.
00:26:36.500 --> 00:26:51.940
And you've been in the rooms where power and pressure you've had power and pressure your whole career was there ever a moment on the stage in the writer's room in the boardroom where the skill you spent decades building suddenly felt like it was being used against you at all?
00:26:52.259 --> 00:26:57.059
Well I think the skill that worked for me works for me.
00:26:57.299 --> 00:27:01.940
I'll make that present tense the skill that works for me professionally is that I can acknowledge the elephant in the room.
00:27:02.180 --> 00:27:10.500
It's I find that when it did not work for me was when I was younger and I was a kid and it came across as just mouthing off.
00:27:10.900 --> 00:27:23.220
Teachers don't appreciate when you point out the elephant in the room or when you're the junior person on staff or parents often don't appreciate when you point out the elephant in the room.
00:27:23.460 --> 00:27:30.180
So the the sometimes the the the the I won't say lack of filter, because this is a business podcast and I'm trying to get work out of it.
00:27:30.259 --> 00:27:36.339
So it's not that I lack a filter, but there was some refinement to the filter and and also now I have credibility.
00:27:36.500 --> 00:27:53.940
Now I walk into a room and people I'm not inappropriate, but people expect there's going to be some sort of directness and the the way I do it and the way I try to show other people how to do it is is in a way that where you're using humor and and those sorts of things as a love language.
00:27:54.019 --> 00:28:05.859
You're using these things very intentionally to build connection and people can see that you're using them intentionally to build connection rather than to to well to hurt people.
00:28:06.180 --> 00:28:06.500
Yeah.
00:28:06.819 --> 00:28:07.779
That's fantastic.
00:28:08.019 --> 00:28:22.579
So do you have like one story where uh you had someone that was you were working with and it really turned things around where you sh they were able to showcase their ability to notice the room when they didn't before?
00:28:22.900 --> 00:28:23.059
Sure.
00:28:23.220 --> 00:28:31.460
Well a lot of my most the clearest examples would be working with people who were who are on stage or who are giving a talk.
00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:38.019
Because about half my work is is one-to-one and the other half is speaking at conferences and events and law firm retreats.
00:28:38.180 --> 00:28:45.940
A lot of lawyers who are very again technically brilliant but technical expertise does not convert.
00:28:46.099 --> 00:28:47.059
Emotion converts.
00:28:47.140 --> 00:28:59.620
So so sort of giving them the skills to to build the two well honestly it's it's I hear it's the feedback that I get it's preparing someone for a talk and and then they come back to me.
00:28:59.779 --> 00:29:05.539
And I work with I mean I have a client a lot of clients who are they'll come to me for a personal speech.
00:29:05.859 --> 00:29:19.859
Because a lot of the professional clients I work with are C-suite board level it's a lot of older guys and they appreciate what I do for them in the business world.
00:29:20.339 --> 00:29:24.740
But then they'll come to me and they'll say my daughter's getting married and I need a father the bride speech.
00:29:24.980 --> 00:29:40.579
And so I can help them I ghostwrite it for them and then we work together to I use their own words, I use their own stories, but but it's something so that it's got it really it's it's authentically funny and it and it also shares what they're feeling.
00:29:40.660 --> 00:29:48.259
And these are typically people who are not used to well experiencing feelings often but certainly expressing them.
00:29:48.500 --> 00:29:52.019
The feedback I get from them is my wife loved it.
00:29:52.180 --> 00:29:53.299
My daughter loved it.
00:29:53.539 --> 00:29:56.740
Everyone in the room came up to me and said this is the best speech I've ever heard.
00:29:56.900 --> 00:30:02.259
But that is less due to me it's due to them showing a side of themselves.
00:30:03.380 --> 00:30:22.819
It's the work with me where we were able to put so much of them into it being able to put that self-awareness into it being able to put that authenticity and the storytelling and specificity and all sorts of things these are all comedic devices but used to further a very serious and sentimental goal.
00:30:24.099 --> 00:30:27.220
So those are the ones that stand out the most to me.
00:30:27.380 --> 00:30:49.859
I mean they give a board they give a conference speech or something like that and they'll say yeah it went great people told me it went well but yeah you're the boss everyone's gonna tell you it went well I mean we know it was better than what it was before we worked together for sure and they certainly recognize that but it's when their wife says to them crying that was incredible.
00:30:50.099 --> 00:31:03.140
That's the person who look after 30 years together is not going to lie to them and and those are the transformations that where it's just it's so tangible that that I've made a difference and and that is that's a pleasure.
00:31:03.539 --> 00:31:13.220
So it's not only connecting with the audience and seeing like the thoughts that are possibly going over their head but it's also connecting with themselves.
00:31:13.539 --> 00:31:16.500
That's a great way to say it yes I'll be stealing that for the website.
00:31:18.339 --> 00:31:39.460
Yay Well it but it is it really is because they they are I think one of the most common mistakes people in business make when they are expressing themselves in any way, whether they're speaking to an audience or a client, prospective client or their team or colleagues, they think of themselves well I'm at work.
00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:41.140
This has to be work self.
00:31:41.380 --> 00:31:49.940
And well yes you you have to be a professional and you have to take the work seriously you don't always have to take yourself seriously.
00:31:50.180 --> 00:32:06.579
You can be a little bit authentic a little bit vulnerable and one of the things that we really understand in as comedians and what helps us connect so quickly is that we always prioritize we always prioritize connection over perfection.
00:32:07.539 --> 00:32:08.180
That's human.
00:32:08.339 --> 00:32:35.460
Humans aren't perfect it it's not about being vulnerable and weeping all the time but it's sort of confiding to someone or sharing with someone well the first time I tried this this is how it went or a little bit of the story that took you that that got you to where you are now because for people in power they often think well I I have to be credible and I I can't be vulnerable.
00:32:36.579 --> 00:32:53.299
It's it it's their humanity simply it it it's just being able to show your humanity and by the way as we move towards a more automated world your humanity the ability to display your humanity and connect with other humans is a skill that's only going to become even more important.
00:32:53.460 --> 00:33:04.420
I mean it was important before but even more important because we can have AI doing wonderful things and speeding up the process but ultimately whoever's buying is a person.
00:33:05.220 --> 00:33:08.980
Our customers are human our colleagues are human.
00:33:09.380 --> 00:33:11.299
Hum humans are still in the equation.
00:33:11.380 --> 00:33:14.019
Many of us still date and marry humans.
00:33:14.339 --> 00:33:19.380
So those human skills are are still very important.
00:33:19.859 --> 00:33:38.099
So the for the person who's listening right now who is really wanting to connect to that humanity and use it in a way that's going to, you know, help their communication with others to be more effective in their communication, how can they connect with you?
00:33:38.500 --> 00:33:46.740
They can find me on LinkedIn my name is Beth Sherman or they can go to my website which is the very cleverly named Bethsherman.com.
00:33:47.059 --> 00:33:49.940
You don't get daytime Emmys for nothing, Natalie love it.
00:33:50.099 --> 00:33:54.019
Thank you so much for being on the Unsealing You podcast.
00:33:54.420 --> 00:33:55.940
My pleasure thanks for having me.
00:33:56.180 --> 00:34:03.859
About four weeks ago we started this investigation with the question how does success become a trap?
00:34:04.339 --> 00:34:11.139
And after these conversations I don't think the answer is that high performers simply need to become more resilient.
00:34:11.380 --> 00:34:15.460
The trust text showed us something more complicated.
00:34:15.699 --> 00:34:24.579
It can begin when a person proves dependable people trust them with more extra responsibilities become normal.
00:34:24.739 --> 00:34:43.299
And because the person keeps getting the work done the organization may never see what their success is concealing unclear ownership, unfinished work, broken processes, poor communication or responsibilities that keep routing to the same people.
00:34:43.539 --> 00:34:48.900
Eventually the workaround becomes the way the organization operates.
00:34:49.299 --> 00:34:55.699
The person pays through overwork, lost energy, disengagement or burnout.
00:34:55.940 --> 00:35:09.059
The organization pays through rework, higher cost, turnover, lost capacity, and the problems that remain hidden because someone keeps compensating for them.
00:35:09.299 --> 00:35:14.420
But throughout this investigation we discovered something underneath all of it.
00:35:14.579 --> 00:35:18.819
There is often a story keeping the pattern alive.
00:35:19.139 --> 00:35:23.299
I have to get it done everybody depends on me.
00:35:23.539 --> 00:35:33.380
If I don't step in, who will I need to prove that I belong here leadership means caring more.
00:35:34.339 --> 00:35:42.900
These stories have helped us to become successful but they can also keep us and the people around us stuck.
00:35:43.219 --> 00:35:50.179
And that is why the trust tax investigation leads directly to the Rewrite Your Story event.
00:35:50.339 --> 00:36:08.420
On October 15th at Walsh College in Troy, Michigan, Merritt Kahn and I are bringing this work into the room for a full day leadership experience followed by Merritt's live one-woman theatrical comedy show optimistic personality disorder.
00:36:08.659 --> 00:36:10.819
Makes me smile every time I say it.
00:36:11.059 --> 00:36:25.380
Because understanding the pattern is only the beginning at Rewrite Your Story we're gonna see the story that's driving your patterns changing the beliefs that keep it going and setting boundaries to clarify ownership.
00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:38.819
Building systems of trust instead of systems that depend on someone continually rescuing them and ultimately learning how to create results without burning out the people responsible for producing them.
00:36:38.980 --> 00:36:42.179
The workshop helps you see the story.
00:36:42.420 --> 00:36:45.380
The comedy helps you let it go.
00:36:45.940 --> 00:36:50.099
And maybe that's the most important thing this investigation has shown us.
00:36:50.259 --> 00:36:53.459
You don't have to abandon your ambition.
00:36:53.779 --> 00:36:58.579
You don't have to stop being dependable and you don't have to care less.
00:36:58.739 --> 00:37:02.659
You can rewrite the story that says your value comes from how much you carry.
00:37:02.899 --> 00:37:15.619
You can develop other people you can share responsibility you can build trust without becoming trapped by it and you can lead in a way that lifts others and releases you.
00:37:15.779 --> 00:37:29.859
Rewrite your story break the cycle lead differently I'd love to see you and your team on October the 15th at Walsh College in Troy Michigan
