From Free Sample to Full-Blown Addiction: Eric’s 70H Story

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All right. Good evening. Welcome back to the Two Talking Fools.
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Tonight, it's just Kate doing a solo podcast here in the clubhouse here in Connecticut.
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I want to thank all of you for coming. And the reason why we're doing this tonight,
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and I'm very grateful that Eric is here to talk to us, is because a lot of you
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reached out specifically on YouTube about 70H,
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your struggles with it, your problems with it, trying to get off of it,
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and how scared people are because,
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imagine being addicted to something
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and then having it abruptly taken away from you or the potential of.
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There's a lot of things that can go on with this topic.
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I took initial, let's just say, interest in it when I went on a rabbit hole on TikTok and.
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And decided that I too wanted to see how easy it was to get this type of medication.
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Went 15 minutes to the Massachusetts border, went in and found little candy shops full of this drug.
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Needless to say, we're on tonight with Eric. Eric is from Texas and his story
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is very interesting. And for those of you who are trying to get off of this,
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we hear you, we see you, and Eric is going to share his story.
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These are not easy stories to tell.
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And, Eric, it took you five times, I believe you said, to get off this.
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Yeah. Let's dive into this. Eric, welcome to the Two Talking Fools podcast.
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Hi. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Happy to be here.
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So, I don't know. I guess where we begin is let's talk a little bit about you
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before we get into, let's say, the 70H.
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Okay. Was this something, do you have an addictive personality?
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Tell me a little bit about yourself.
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Sure, sure. Well, you know, just like everyone else. Well, I should say most
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people in high school, you know, you play around with stuff,
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right? But I never got too crazy into it in general. But so recently I went
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through an alcohol problem.
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I'd say from around 2010 to about, I quit drinking in 21.
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So I've definitely got some history with addiction there.
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But other than alcohol and cigarettes that I used to be addicted to and,
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you know legal stuff right just you know I'm not I was never a guy that was,
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using cocaine a lot or I wasn't smoking a lot of weed I wasn't really doing anything crazy just,
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you know I'd gotten past my let's say I quit smoking like right before I quit
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drinking in 21 and then I had some major surgery which helped me rededicate
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myself to healthy lifestyles.
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Yeah. And I guess it was in 2024...
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Just moving along to where, where I got addicted. Right. So a friend of mine
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said, you got to try this stuff.
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Right. He said, go look up seven hydroxy online.
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He's like, there's a website and you can get a, you know, he's like,
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just, just request a free sample. You'll get five tabs for like two bucks for shipping.
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So I did that and I'm looking at these five tabs and I don't know what to expect.
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He was telling me how a friend of his was just like knocked out after doing
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it, like, was just completely gone. So I'm like, okay, well,
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I have zero tolerance. I'm like, should I take a whole one? He's like, start with half.
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So these were 15 milligram tablets. So I was taking about seven and a half,
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I guess. I mean, it was cut with my fingers. So it wasn't exactly an exact science, right?
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Now, this is after you quit drinking? Yes. About three years after.
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Oh, my God. Okay. Okay. No, right?
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Right? Like, it's so good, like, to quit alcohol, to quit cigarettes.
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Literally the most difficult thing, but okay.
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So, oh, I lost my thought. Right, right, right.
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So, I took it once, and, you know, I have no history with pills,
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right? I mean, I'm sure I've taken tramadol stuff when I was younger.
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I'm sure when I had my wisdom teeth pulled, I had something,
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because that was in the early 2000s when everyone got pills, right? Yeah.
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But I mean, it's not like I ever used him and abused him. It was just,
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you know, Dr. George's only. And I always followed directions.
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And I didn't know. Whatever.
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So I took this half tablet. So when I felt that feeling that an opioid gives
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you that warm brain hug that I think I heard on previous podcasts here,
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which is a really good description, by the way.
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I was just blown away by it. I didn't know I was in danger. I just liked the feeling.
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And so I did it the next night and felt great. So I'm just sitting there watching
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TV. It was like when I used to drink.
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Pop a tablet. I'm just watching TV for like a couple, two or three hours,
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feeling really nuts the whole time. And then when it wears off, I go to bed.
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No harm, right? No. I wasn't doing it in the mornings or during the day.
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It was just at night, kind of like having a drink and then going to bed.
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So I didn't suspect anything. Now, I'd say about within a week of this happening,
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I told my friend I was using it every day. He said, stop, use it once a week.
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He's like, or every other day. He's like, do not do it every day.
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You're going to regret that.
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So I was, I don't know, I don't know if saying I was surprised that I couldn't do it is accurate.
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I think I just didn't heed the warning, right?
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Because I was, I just, I didn't understand what that kind of addiction could
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feel like. And so I thought, okay, well, he's being cautious, but whatever.
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And you're only taking half a pill. You're only doing it at night. Yeah.
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What's the harm, right? I mean, it's almost following the directions that are
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on the packages, right? Like use a quarter of a tab once a day tops,
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you know? I mean, I was pretty much following those directions,
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except they didn't have them then.
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So, you know, at one point you run out of the pack. And I mean,
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I wasn't having withdrawals or anything. So I ordered another one,
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waited a few days, got it, used it, fun.
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You know And then after a few more days I'm like I think I'm going to go For
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a bigger package So I don't have to order this Like every other week,
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And so And I don't know If I should be naming Brand names or anything Yeah you
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can here If you so choose Or not Yeah So The brand name I always liked Was V-I-I
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So it's seven In Roman numerals right Yeah.
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They kind of, it felt like a good high to me. It was, it didn't taste bad.
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It didn't hurt my stomach. I mean, I've, I've used other stuff since then and
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always got kind of a weird stomach ache, not feeling quite right.
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That didn't happen with these tablets. So even if I went back to them,
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but I'm kind of jumping ahead of myself.
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So I just found these. I ordered a pack of, I don't, I want to say at 20,
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maybe there were 15 milligram tablets.
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So the way I was using them, I'm like, it's like a month's supply,
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you know, and I don't remember how much it costs, but it wasn't.
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Like a horrible high amount, I want to say, you know, maybe 50 bucks,
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40 bucks. Okay, for a month.
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Yeah, I mean, I was getting like 20 tabs, and I was using half a tab,
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so it lasted like 40 days. So what's 50 bucks? Who cares? Right, right.
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Justifiable, sure. It's cheaper than beer. Right. Facts.
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Facts. That's scary. That's scary. But yes. At that level, it is, right? Yeah.
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So then, let's see here. It kind of got a little bit more when I think I decided
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to start to try a full pill, just on the whim. Let's go to 15 milligrams.
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And I started doing that every night.
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And then I discovered that, well, I don't want to get into the activities I
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like to do, like walking and stuff. But we don't want to jump into that stuff.
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It just felt nice, right? Yeah, yeah.
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So then I noticed that they had other pills. They started coming out with flavors,
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like raspberry and I don't remember the others. Those were mint, I think.
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And those were 20 milligrams i started doing that so now i'm taking 20 milligrams
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and i'm still feeling okay i don't feel any danger so and you're still doing it at night,
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what what's that and you're still doing it at night it's just night it's not
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like it's yeah it never i want to say it never affected work but one thing i
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did know this towards the end so i started this in.
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In August of 24, I started, I was staying up later, maybe taking a second dose sometimes.
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And I couldn't sleep on this stuff. I don't think anyone can.
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It's like, well, I don't want to say anyone. I couldn't at those doses.
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So if I took one, say, at 11 p.m., I was up till 2. There was no way.
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I could try to sleep, but I'd be tossing, you know, nothing.
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It just didn't work out. So I would end up, you know, getting like four hours of sleep a night.
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And it wasn't restful sleep. I woke up feeling like maybe I dozed for 10 minutes,
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you know, I just, I didn't feel great.
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So in a way work did get affected.
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And the other thing I noticed, and I think this is when I decided I had to stop,
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was a friend of mine recommended a book. And so I started to read it and I would read it while I was on it.
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And I couldn't focus. It would take me 20 minutes to read a page.
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I just kept my mind capable and I have ADHD. So maybe that's, maybe it made it worse.
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Right but then i know this too like a weird thing like i'd be watching tv and
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i kept it was like i was in a circle i kept rewinding it for 20 seconds to rewatch a scene,
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and it's almost like i couldn't pay attention so i rewind it again and over
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and over and then i realized it would take me like three hours to get through
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a one-hour episode of something and that really annoyed me that's just.
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You know and i'm sure everyone had weird stories like that how they affected
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them in a unique way Right. Of course. Of course. Absolutely.
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So I decided in September of that month, I'm done. I'm just going to stop.
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So I was going to see my friend that told me about them.
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And he said, look, he goes, because I tried to not use it for one night and
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I was fine. I didn't sleep well, but I was okay.
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The second night I started having like, have you ever had restless legs?
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It's the worst. But it was in my arms.
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So you're laying down and you got to twitch a little bit. And so I'm like,
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what is that? And so anyway, he said, he said, look, he goes,
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that's withdrawals of Opie's. You took, you took too many times.
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You didn't give any space. He goes, he goes, fly out here. Fly for a weekend.
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We'll clean you up and don't touch it anymore.
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Which sounds reasonable, right? So I went out there, just laid in his bed for
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like four days. And I just had some twitchiness.
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But, and I think at one point I discovered that I could take kratom and it would
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make the withdrawals go away.
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And so I would take one or two grams of kratom and that'd feel better for a
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couple of hours. I'm like, okay, cool.
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And at one point I lost the bottle in his house somewhere.
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And so I had gone like 24 hours. I was twitchy and uncomfortable.
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And he's like, look, he goes, just take a seven pill so you can sleep well tonight
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and start over tomorrow.
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Well that i didn't like the idea but all right so i did and i slept great and
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then i i took a tablet that he had given me and i cut it into fourth four pieces
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right and so that way if i felt,
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i was worried that on the plane home i would be in a tight space and if i was
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uncomfortable i might have a bit of an anxiety or a panic attack sure yeah so,
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yeah it's fine home i'd pop you
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know I popped like a fourth of one and it lasted me a bit and I was okay,
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you know, and after I got home, I just said, nope, not touching it.
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And, you know, a couple of days, withdrawals were done. It wasn't that bad that time.
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So after a couple of weeks, I'm like, yeah, I just want to do it one more time.
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You know, I just want to feel that warm hug again.
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How? It's two or three weeks later. And I was, and I took one and then I was
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back on that routine of every night, you know, and I was like,
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well, I could take creative and it'll stop it. And it's not that bad.
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And the one thing looking back that I noticed was when I was doing it the first
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time, I was taking 30 to 40 milligrams a night when I finally said I'm going to stop.
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Like I started at like seven, but I got to 30 and 40.
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And the second time I was using, by the time I quit, I was doing 60 milligrams a night.
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But I was still doing it at night, right? So I started back up in October of
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24. And then in December, I decided I'm just going to stop. December 1st would be my day.
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And I'm going to taper because quitting was getting more uncomfortable than it was the first time.
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So someone on reddit had told me about this taper schedule he had created where he,
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would take all the tablets and he would cut them up into eighths right so eight
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pieces per tablet and he's like every day or every two days just remove one
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eighth and just know that that's how much you're taking that day,
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you know so you'll be uncomfortable but it won't be that bad right right okay
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it makes sense right yeah instead of a really bad withdrawal you'll have a very
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slow So it'll be drawn out. You'll be on top.
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That's the idea. So I started using Kratom wherever I needed to because it still hurts. Right?
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So by January of 25, I was off seven.
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But now I was using 20 grams a day of Kratom. And when I tried to lower the
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Kratom, I had the same withdrawals.
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Wow. So I wasn't in a better place. I was just on a cheaper product.
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Right. So I did that for a month, and then I realized seven is more expensive,
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but at least I don't feel like I've got this leaf stuff in my stomach.
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I was like, maybe it'll be cleaner that way. I won't be taking 20 pills to...
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So I went back on seven because it was better than Kratom.
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And I did that. Now I was taking them during the day. This was the first time
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I would take them at work.
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So this is my third time. I wonder what, like, I wonder, Eric,
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what made you jump? Like, okay, so it's like, like you said,
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like we initially talked, it got worse and worse and worse. But at this point,
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you were sober from it for a bit. What made you now want to take it during the day?
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I don't know, actually.
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I don't know. You know, what I did notice was my withdrawals were happening.
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Like I would, when I was taking it only at night, I would notice that I would
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start having small withdrawals by like, say, 5 p.m. It's like,
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okay, I'll take a little bit before I leave work.
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I don't want to get the car wreck. So I'll take a tiny bit to lower that and then I'll go home.
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And it started creeping to 4 and then 3 p.m.
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So I was beginning to have a serious problem. Right.
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And so eventually it was like, I'd wake up in the morning and sometimes I'd
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feel a little off. So I'd take a little bit in the morning and I was like,
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oh, that really felt nice. It's a nice way to get up, you know, and,
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and I remember about it, but it's not funny. Like we're laughing because, but it's not funny.
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I was in a trap. I don't think, I think I was starting to appreciate the trap at this point.
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Yeah. You know? Yeah. No, you're right. In hindsight, when you're past it all,
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you're like, that's kind of funny, like not ha-ha funny, but yeah,
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it's easy to laugh at problems after it's over, right?
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No, you're right. Now, at this point, are you talking to your friend and telling
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him again, like, hey, I'm like really hooked, like I'm taking it during the day?
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Or are you like embarrassed now to tell him?
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I mean, we talked about everything, me and him. So I'm sure I did. Yeah.
00:15:50.579 --> 00:15:53.959
I really don't remember, but I remember, yeah, no, I'm really,
00:15:53.959 --> 00:15:57.405
I don't remember if I told him a whole lot about it. I remember that he apologized,
00:15:58.015 --> 00:15:59.988
to me for introducing it to me.
00:16:00.900 --> 00:16:04.679
Right. And I kept telling him, no, no, you know, I'm responsible for myself.
00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:07.558
I did this to myself. You know, you don't have to apologize.
00:16:08.595 --> 00:16:13.819
But, um. Eric, this is a, this is a very, like, ongoing thing that we hear is
00:16:13.819 --> 00:16:17.739
like, like the, like, as you know, the, the first one we did,
00:16:17.739 --> 00:16:22.425
the interview, she herself, she got a free pack sample from her husband's work.
00:16:23.017 --> 00:16:26.869
It feels like a lot of this free sample came about. This was their marketing
00:16:26.869 --> 00:16:29.658
scheme or their way to market it through.
00:16:30.633 --> 00:16:34.818
I suppose it's brilliant, but it's very harmful because this is how it starts. It's innocent.
00:16:35.195 --> 00:16:39.694
And again, I have to say this too, I was born in 1984.
00:16:39.833 --> 00:16:44.443
Up until recent, I've never heard of Kratom in my entire life. Right.
00:16:44.861 --> 00:16:48.088
I first heard of Kratom in, I want to say around 2018.
00:16:49.034 --> 00:16:52.819
And I used it a little bit because I heard it can help you stop drinking.
00:16:53.866 --> 00:16:56.319
And this was when I was in the middle of all that. And I noticed if I took some,
00:16:56.659 --> 00:17:00.429
I didn't have a desire, but I just didn't like taking it, you know?
00:17:00.429 --> 00:17:04.041
And so I didn't really get into it that much back then.
00:17:04.494 --> 00:17:06.796
But yeah, same here. I mean, I just heard about it maybe, well,
00:17:07.318 --> 00:17:10.952
okay, I guess a bit longer ago than you, eight years ago.
00:17:11.347 --> 00:17:16.349
Yeah no but yeah no i get it it's new all right so where are we at now so let's
00:17:16.349 --> 00:17:18.899
get back to you because i don't want to derail our story,
00:17:19.909 --> 00:17:23.999
let me think you're still on we're on the third cycle this way on from late
00:17:23.999 --> 00:17:26.769
january of 25 through april of 25.
00:17:27.845 --> 00:17:33.459
Oh man start so this was when i wanted to stop again and i was take i don't
00:17:33.459 --> 00:17:35.959
remember how much i was taking at this point but.
00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:42.180
I don't want to say friends, someone I know online, right? So he told me,
00:17:42.180 --> 00:17:44.770
look, he's like, subs will work.
00:17:45.229 --> 00:17:49.188
Subs will remove like 80 or 90% of the withdrawals.
00:17:49.385 --> 00:17:54.044
And you can just stop. Do you be on subs for a week and then just stop everything? Right.
00:17:55.170 --> 00:17:59.030
And so I did that. Wow, it was so much easier. Really?
00:17:59.487 --> 00:18:02.560
Oh, like I said, it took like 80, 90% of the withdrawals away.
00:18:02.560 --> 00:18:08.136
So I would have a little kratom on the first couple of days and then stop everything. I'm good.
00:18:08.723 --> 00:18:13.332
Wow. It was a huge difference. It's a little embarrassing to use the online
00:18:13.616 --> 00:18:18.413
website to get the prescription because you got to admit your problem to a doctor, right?
00:18:18.604 --> 00:18:22.140
And he's going to prepare for what the medical community does with subs,
00:18:22.140 --> 00:18:28.830
which is eight milligrams of subs twice a day for like 30 or 60 days.
00:18:28.830 --> 00:18:30.126
And then we'll talk about lowering it.
00:18:30.683 --> 00:18:35.110
And I knew that there was some serious withdrawals coming from subs because
00:18:35.110 --> 00:18:42.084
funny enough, the friend that first introduced me, he used 7-0 to get off of subs, the Suboxone.
00:18:42.783 --> 00:18:46.170
Can you explain that drug at all? I've just, I've been hearing about that too,
00:18:46.170 --> 00:18:47.624
but I don't know enough about it.
00:18:48.205 --> 00:18:52.319
So it's, I mean, okay, I only know a little bit myself, but it's really,
00:18:52.482 --> 00:18:56.184
it's a very strong opioid, but it doesn't get you high. It's missing that piece of it.
00:18:56.550 --> 00:19:01.040
And so, the thing is, you've got these opioids that are wrapping around your
00:19:01.040 --> 00:19:02.954
mu receptor, if I'm pronouncing that right.
00:19:03.820 --> 00:19:07.209
And the suboxone, and I know I'm pronouncing that wrong, but close enough,
00:19:07.621 --> 00:19:13.950
the subs, it kind of wraps around that same receptor and it'll kick off most
00:19:13.950 --> 00:19:15.838
substances that are wrapped around it because it's….
00:19:17.145 --> 00:19:21.545
See, this is where, if I had a bit of a medical degree, I might be able to understand it properly.
00:19:22.005 --> 00:19:25.485
I don't want to get, I wouldn't use terms. I'm like, I don't know if that's
00:19:25.485 --> 00:19:28.667
proper. So maybe I'll just, I'll just say it kicks off all the stuff.
00:19:29.067 --> 00:19:31.395
Yeah. All the stuff that's there and it wraps around it and covers it.
00:19:31.906 --> 00:19:36.905
And so the thing is, if you use subs for too long and then you remove that,
00:19:36.905 --> 00:19:38.683
the subs have a very long half-life.
00:19:38.990 --> 00:19:43.035
And so it kind of, I don't know, makes the withdrawals last forever.
00:19:43.430 --> 00:19:46.705
It's like the friend of mine that used seven to get off of subs,
00:19:47.715 --> 00:19:54.029
he went cold turkey on subs and for like six weeks he said he was shaking sweating
00:19:54.285 --> 00:19:56.825
going through all the opioid withdrawals from subs because he just said i don't
00:19:56.825 --> 00:19:57.657
want to be on the same more,
00:19:58.342 --> 00:20:03.435
and it was towards the very end when he just was like wanting some kind of relief
00:20:03.435 --> 00:20:06.397
and so he tried seven got himself a new addiction,
00:20:07.175 --> 00:20:11.225
and he was taking it whenever he felt withdrawal so he was taking like eight
00:20:11.225 --> 00:20:15.675
times a day i don't i don't remember the dosage this was two years ago i don't
00:20:15.675 --> 00:20:17.596
remember details early. Sure.
00:20:18.177 --> 00:20:20.789
But in any case, so, you know, I use subs and.
00:20:21.898 --> 00:20:26.328
And what I was told was that as long as you don't use subs more than 10 days
00:20:26.328 --> 00:20:29.384
or so, you won't get that dependency on them.
00:20:30.254 --> 00:20:34.376
And since seven's half-life is like, I mean, you don't really feel the withdrawals past a week.
00:20:35.003 --> 00:20:39.238
You know, I mean, the worst time is about 72 hours in. And by day five or six,
00:20:39.758 --> 00:20:41.748
you may be off, but you're feeling okay.
00:20:42.387 --> 00:20:45.632
I know everyone's different, right? Some people are in hell for a long time.
00:20:46.050 --> 00:20:50.460
But within two weeks your your your withdrawals are pretty much done with 7-0,
00:20:51.256 --> 00:20:56.228
or one week so you just stay on subs long enough for that withdrawal to be complete
00:20:56.228 --> 00:21:00.393
and then you stop subs and you're good and then the mental battle begins,
00:21:01.164 --> 00:21:06.368
all right don't go back right so we have this easy way of getting off using
00:21:06.368 --> 00:21:11.308
subs or even create them it's really not that bad you're but you're replacing the dependency,
00:21:12.278 --> 00:21:16.208
and if you're able to get off like i just mentioned a sub you quit in time, you're fine.
00:21:16.550 --> 00:21:19.760
Now you've got this, oh, I know an easy way to get off.
00:21:20.318 --> 00:21:24.868
So I can use it occasionally and then I'll just get off again. Right.
00:21:25.594 --> 00:21:31.393
So that's probably what got me to start doing it again the very next month, May of last year.
00:21:33.727 --> 00:21:37.098
And this time, because I knew I had an easy way off and I was using it during
00:21:37.098 --> 00:21:40.978
the day, I think I was around 100 milligrams a day. I don't know.
00:21:40.978 --> 00:21:44.853
I wasn't really measuring, But I was just popping them whenever I felt like it at this point.
00:21:46.771 --> 00:21:50.382
And then around July, I quit again with subs.
00:21:51.044 --> 00:21:54.800
And then I want to say in August, I jumped on for the fifth time.
00:21:55.998 --> 00:21:59.598
And by this point, I was starting to measure it out. I was taking 200 to 300
00:21:59.598 --> 00:22:03.051
milligrams a day. Now it's getting expensive, right?
00:22:04.018 --> 00:22:05.658
What does that look like cost-wise?
00:22:07.162 --> 00:22:11.656
So when I was using, I always went to VII, right?
00:22:12.364 --> 00:22:17.102
And they weren't that expensive and they felt clean and they were all like 15.
00:22:17.102 --> 00:22:18.947
Well, no, they got stronger tablets.
00:22:19.266 --> 00:22:23.684
So I don't really know. I didn't really track the money part of it that much. I don't think I was.
00:22:24.345 --> 00:22:28.212
Could you guess? I just put like. Well, I mean, funny enough,
00:22:28.212 --> 00:22:29.782
I wonder if I could just look it up right now.
00:22:30.722 --> 00:22:36.292
But I remember it being like 40 bucks for like 20 tablets or something like
00:22:36.292 --> 00:22:39.142
that. And so it's way cheaper than going to a gas station. I know that.
00:22:39.456 --> 00:22:41.972
Because people are talking about, I'm spending 50 bucks a day.
00:22:41.972 --> 00:22:43.270
And I'm looking, I'm like, why?
00:22:43.926 --> 00:22:48.862
Just get it online. People are spending $100 a day. Yeah. And I was always confused.
00:22:48.862 --> 00:22:49.748
Like, why are you doing that?
00:22:49.992 --> 00:22:54.112
Yeah. And I was starting to get it, though. Because if you're waiting for your
00:22:54.112 --> 00:22:57.702
shipment and you run out, you know. And plus, if you keep trying to quit,
00:22:57.702 --> 00:22:59.225
but then, oh, it's right here.
00:23:00.108 --> 00:23:03.822
You know. Yep. You don't want to commit by buying a whole bunch online.
00:23:03.822 --> 00:23:08.207
So but in any case it's all like that weird mental game that's happening right
00:23:08.632 --> 00:23:15.016
sure so then here's the deal i went on my final cycle in in august of 2025.
00:23:16.563 --> 00:23:23.572
And in october maybe it was late september i decided to i was just done so i
00:23:23.572 --> 00:23:27.322
started using kratom to get off of it i didn't want to use subs too much you
00:23:27.322 --> 00:23:30.716
know because there's always that one that you're going to run out have to call the doctor again.
00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:34.542
And then you got to admit, yeah, I went back on that. And, and this,
00:23:34.542 --> 00:23:38.876
I'd already called the website a second time. So I did not want a third time
00:23:39.305 --> 00:23:42.086
trying to get subs, you know? Right.
00:23:42.995 --> 00:23:47.072
So I used Kratom and then I thought, okay, no, no, I'm sorry.
00:23:47.072 --> 00:23:48.989
I, I wrote this down. I remembered wrong.
00:23:49.157 --> 00:23:53.482
I use subs. I also use Kratom for some of the withdrawals that you get with the subs, right?
00:23:54.091 --> 00:23:57.312
But then I realized I had, I didn't want to use subs for too long and I was
00:23:57.312 --> 00:24:00.942
still taking Kratom. So I stop subs, I use Kratom for like two or three more
00:24:00.942 --> 00:24:03.141
weeks, and then I use subs to get off of Kratom.
00:24:04.974 --> 00:24:09.124
If you're, are you following me? Yeah, yeah, wow. And you know,
00:24:09.124 --> 00:24:13.454
the trick to using subs like that is, you know, they want you to take like eight
00:24:13.454 --> 00:24:17.344
milligrams twice a day, right? Which is not, you don't need that much and it's
00:24:17.344 --> 00:24:19.824
going to get you with a new physical dependency.
00:24:20.561 --> 00:24:25.106
So I would cut up the strips down to where I got like 0.5 milligrams.
00:24:25.489 --> 00:24:29.074
And I would take one of those, wait two or three hours. If I still felt withdrawals,
00:24:29.074 --> 00:24:32.241
I would take another 0.5. So I was trying to keep it as low as possible.
00:24:32.733 --> 00:24:37.969
And by day three, you can just use 0.5 and pretty much be okay for the day.
00:24:38.713 --> 00:24:44.123
And by, I think around day six, I'd go to 0.25, and then day 10, I would just stop using.
00:24:44.448 --> 00:24:48.484
And that's what we're calling a rapid subtaper. Okay.
00:24:50.022 --> 00:24:54.352
So I did that in October and the thing that was bugging me was I knew there
00:24:54.352 --> 00:24:56.246
was a mental battle and I was going to go back.
00:24:56.699 --> 00:24:59.874
I saw the pattern. I have an addiction history.
00:25:00.356 --> 00:25:03.073
You know, I quit alcohol three or four times. I knew exactly what was happening.
00:25:03.677 --> 00:25:08.733
So I was trying to find the solution to that. And someone was saying that Welbutrin,
00:25:09.255 --> 00:25:13.221
is great because it ups your baseline dopamine.
00:25:13.633 --> 00:25:16.077
And so you may not be looking for that fix, right?
00:25:16.622 --> 00:25:20.792
And they also said it helps with pause, which is like post-acute withdrawal
00:25:20.792 --> 00:25:22.143
symptoms is what it stands for.
00:25:22.782 --> 00:25:27.312
So maybe two or three weeks after quitting, you are suddenly very fatigued,
00:25:27.312 --> 00:25:30.419
very depressed. Nothing interests you ever.
00:25:30.965 --> 00:25:35.522
And I think that was mentioned in your previous interview about this stuff, right?
00:25:36.148 --> 00:25:39.649
And so I decided, let's give Wilbutrin a try. And I did that,
00:25:40.131 --> 00:25:42.690
and it went away. The fatigue went away.
00:25:43.709 --> 00:25:46.472
You know i mean it went over in the beginning kind of came back and then it
00:25:46.472 --> 00:25:50.922
was gone like three weeks later and and i and then i noticed when i went when
00:25:50.922 --> 00:25:52.793
i was at a gas station and i saw the product,
00:25:53.653 --> 00:25:58.052
i had the mental ability to say no i'd want it but i'd be like that's a bad
00:25:58.052 --> 00:26:03.703
idea and i'd walk away so i it worked for me i'm not saying it works for everyone like that,
00:26:04.432 --> 00:26:09.562
but it it balanced me out pretty well so that was my miracle cure right was
00:26:09.562 --> 00:26:13.851
being on wilbutrin and suddenly had the willpower to say no.
00:26:14.065 --> 00:26:17.839
And I noticed it really helped with my ADHD. So my focus was better and,
00:26:18.582 --> 00:26:20.515
you know, my life kind of improved from that point.
00:26:21.147 --> 00:26:25.220
Do you know like how much that helps somebody just listening that is like,
00:26:25.342 --> 00:26:29.762
you know, I'm looking for anything. I'm looking for a glimmer of hope.
00:26:29.762 --> 00:26:34.842
Like just you sharing that, that could help thousands of people you don't even know, you know?
00:26:35.362 --> 00:26:39.312
Right, right. Can you, I want to talk a little bit about, Well,
00:26:39.312 --> 00:26:42.553
mental health's important. And I wanna talk about something you said.
00:26:43.548 --> 00:26:49.732
Explain, if you can, the warm, going from that warm hug that you feel,
00:26:51.192 --> 00:26:56.863
to feeling that state of like nothing, others have said it feels very gray.
00:26:58.477 --> 00:27:02.279
There's no gumption in life. There's no reason. Everything is absolutely gray.
00:27:03.962 --> 00:27:09.572
That must be profound. Like that must play into this. Like more as much as the
00:27:09.572 --> 00:27:17.332
physical part of it is just knowing that you're going to go from feeling that to feeling gray. Right?
00:27:18.341 --> 00:27:22.096
Yeah, because you know, like when you stop, you're going to have a painful time,
00:27:22.769 --> 00:27:24.958
and then you're going to have a bleh time.
00:27:25.475 --> 00:27:27.692
And you don't know how long it's going to last. For some people,
00:27:27.889 --> 00:27:30.914
it depends on how much you've taken and for how long you were taking it.
00:27:31.256 --> 00:27:33.729
It can be anywhere from a month to a year or two.
00:27:34.379 --> 00:27:38.652
And so you've got that big unknown, right? You don't know when you're going
00:27:38.652 --> 00:27:41.492
to feel better. And so it's really easy to say, I'm going to take a little bit
00:27:41.492 --> 00:27:43.237
more just to take a break from this feeling.
00:27:43.961 --> 00:27:47.357
And then you end up going to feel so much better and you're stuck in the loop again.
00:27:48.077 --> 00:27:53.186
You know, it's a tragic addiction cycle. Right. Let me ask you this question.
00:27:54.100 --> 00:27:57.903
Is 7.0 something that is talked about like.
00:27:59.231 --> 00:28:03.971
Is it talked about like amongst others? Like, will you go like, oh, hey, how's it going?
00:28:03.971 --> 00:28:07.271
Have you tried a good 7-0? I know that's really like dumb what I just said,
00:28:07.271 --> 00:28:10.821
but well, you know how people are with alcohol. Like, hey, have you tried that
00:28:10.821 --> 00:28:13.891
wine lately? Have you tried this lately? Have you done this shit lately?
00:28:13.891 --> 00:28:15.280
Oh, you tried that new vape pen, this.
00:28:15.766 --> 00:28:20.261
Is 7-0 like that? Or is it truly like you go into the gas station or buy it
00:28:20.261 --> 00:28:22.129
online, but let's just say gas station.
00:28:22.448 --> 00:28:25.191
You go in, you get it, you take it, you take it. And it's like,
00:28:25.191 --> 00:28:26.451
we don't need to talk about that. I'm on it.
00:28:26.611 --> 00:28:32.091
But, you know, it's funny that you mentioned that because nobody in my life
00:28:32.091 --> 00:28:34.170
really knows about this addiction I had.
00:28:34.808 --> 00:28:38.482
But my friend that introduced it to me does. Obviously, he does. Right.
00:28:39.161 --> 00:28:43.711
And so I went to visit him the very next year. Labor Day weekend was becoming
00:28:43.711 --> 00:28:45.210
a thing where we always just got together.
00:28:45.876 --> 00:28:49.951
And and he was like going, dude, you got to check out this brand I found.
00:28:50.771 --> 00:28:53.131
And he was like, he's like, dude, he's like, this stuff's really good.
00:28:53.131 --> 00:28:56.271
And we go off to the vape shop and get it. And I was like, oh,
00:28:56.271 --> 00:28:58.731
it's kind of nice, you know, and he's like, here, give me the one you had.
00:28:58.731 --> 00:29:05.509
And so he was the only guy that knew about my experiences. And it was like that. It absolutely was.
00:29:06.118 --> 00:29:08.751
And, you know, when you start using these different brands, you notice there
00:29:08.751 --> 00:29:12.961
are differences. Like I know some brands would make my stomach really churn
00:29:12.961 --> 00:29:16.491
and I'd want to vomit and just feel I'd still get the high, but I wouldn't feel
00:29:16.491 --> 00:29:19.474
great, you know. And others was just like a really nice.
00:29:19.770 --> 00:29:22.789
I feel wonderful and I have no problems with this.
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:27.231
So you probably Have you tried like all of them All the different No.
00:29:28.271 --> 00:29:34.491
So many I think I've probably tried Five or six different kinds Sure Sure Especially
00:29:34.491 --> 00:29:38.731
so Even after that final quit I had A year ago I've had moments where I'd take
00:29:38.731 --> 00:29:40.391
it For like a week And then just stop myself Yeah,
00:29:41.398 --> 00:29:44.528
don't really call it relapses because I was able to just stop and be like,
00:29:44.528 --> 00:29:48.500
whoa, what am I doing? Don't jump back to this. It wasn't like one of those month-long battles.
00:29:49.132 --> 00:29:52.522
Right. And maybe that's unfair. Maybe they should be called relapses.
00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:57.188
But so when those happen, I wouldn't get online because then you're getting
00:29:57.188 --> 00:30:01.335
like a month's supply and I didn't want to do that. I just wanted to have a tablet.
00:30:02.015 --> 00:30:05.498
And so then I would go to the gas stations and I did discover that some brands
00:30:05.498 --> 00:30:08.150
just didn't agree with me while others were tolerable.
00:30:08.713 --> 00:30:15.088
Honestly, that VII was the one that didn't bug me at all. I was really the only
00:30:15.088 --> 00:30:16.515
one where I had no side effects.
00:30:17.020 --> 00:30:20.724
But maybe that was a dosage thing because back then I was on like 15 or 20 milligrams.
00:30:21.414 --> 00:30:24.948
And nowadays you go somewhere and you see a pack and they're like 80 milligram
00:30:24.948 --> 00:30:26.354
tablets or 100 milligram.
00:30:26.830 --> 00:30:30.148
Even if you cut them down the force, you're still getting like what used to
00:30:30.148 --> 00:30:31.390
be a full pill two years ago.
00:30:32.023 --> 00:30:34.287
Right, right. That's insane.
00:30:35.378 --> 00:30:40.918
To me, it's insane. You'll pay $45 for five 100-milligram tablets.
00:30:40.918 --> 00:30:43.203
You got five. Actually, I think it was higher than that now.
00:30:43.790 --> 00:30:48.916
I saw one that said, once you add all the tablets up, it's like 1,600 milligrams.
00:30:49.638 --> 00:30:55.988
And I know from my time on Reddit that there are people who are taking 1,000
00:30:55.988 --> 00:30:59.528
to 3,000 or 4,000 milligrams a day. They're rare, but they are out there.
00:30:59.818 --> 00:31:04.079
And at that level, that subs routine I was talking about, it just doesn't work.
00:31:04.595 --> 00:31:08.418
It doesn't work it's not enough you can't cover it so you've got to taper down
00:31:08.418 --> 00:31:12.708
to like three to five hundred milligrams before you can go that type of,
00:31:13.364 --> 00:31:19.708
rapid taper on it which is crazy and then it's not just seven anymore right
00:31:19.708 --> 00:31:24.788
they start coming out with new things like pseudo i don't really know what the full word is but,
00:31:25.537 --> 00:31:29.678
it's a different type of seven it still hits you the same way but the withdrawals
00:31:29.678 --> 00:31:33.931
are a little bit longer more severe and subs don't help a whole lot with it anymore.
00:31:34.378 --> 00:31:38.865
And then they came out with this other project called product called MGM-15,
00:31:39.518 --> 00:31:44.450
which I've heard subs don't do anything for. And there was one guy.
00:31:46.035 --> 00:31:49.252
Reddit that was telling me, oh, that's the way to get off seven. Use MGM.
00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:55.715
You don't have to take it as long as often, you know, and it's a lower high,
00:31:55.715 --> 00:31:57.795
but it lasts longer and you don't spend as much.
00:31:58.276 --> 00:32:03.441
I mean, you were just addicted to a new substance. It's the same withdrawals, just maybe more severe.
00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:08.145
So I never really gotten to that one. I'm kind of glad I didn't because I've
00:32:08.145 --> 00:32:09.349
heard too many horror stories.
00:32:10.935 --> 00:32:16.540
The woman that I had previously spoken to, I forgot, She was out in Oregon, I think she said.
00:32:16.754 --> 00:32:21.195
Yeah, that sounds right. MGM-15, she said that was starting to come into play.
00:32:21.195 --> 00:32:23.981
She was starting to hear about it and stuff like that.
00:32:24.394 --> 00:32:29.096
Now, it sounds to me like they're going to, if they haven't already.
00:32:29.246 --> 00:32:31.359
I will not ever speak out of line on this.
00:32:31.803 --> 00:32:36.875
I did try to get up some notes quick. It's not, is it scheduled to be a Schedule
00:32:36.875 --> 00:32:38.642
1? Is that what I have correct?
00:32:38.885 --> 00:32:41.219
Like, you can still purchase it right now.
00:32:42.029 --> 00:32:43.347
Okay, so where I am.
00:32:44.397 --> 00:32:48.045
So I know federally, like the first week of August, they were going to do a
00:32:48.045 --> 00:32:50.228
temporary two-year ban on it.
00:32:51.014 --> 00:32:54.694
Yes. And the proposal was, I think they wanted to make it a Schedule 1,
00:32:55.349 --> 00:32:58.018
right? Which is up there with heroin and all the hard stuff.
00:32:58.506 --> 00:33:02.639
Yes. It's a temporary two-year ban. So I've noticed where I live,
00:33:03.202 --> 00:33:04.288
I don't really see it anymore.
00:33:04.939 --> 00:33:09.745
Oh, you don't? Okay. I don't, although sometimes I wonder if I ask them if they
00:33:09.745 --> 00:33:12.025
would have something under the counter, you know?
00:33:12.390 --> 00:33:16.935
Cause I remember I was at one gas station that used to have like this huge glass
00:33:16.935 --> 00:33:19.087
display of all these different brands.
00:33:19.244 --> 00:33:21.060
I mean, it was a big display and.
00:33:22.305 --> 00:33:25.505
And after the ban, I just wanted to see if he still had it up or if he had taken
00:33:25.505 --> 00:33:27.423
it down. And I went in there and it was all down.
00:33:27.602 --> 00:33:30.766
And as I was walking away, I kind of stopped. And I was like, no, I'm sorry.
00:33:31.015 --> 00:33:34.005
I went in there as I was leaving. I was like, oh, I didn't notice if it's still
00:33:34.005 --> 00:33:35.462
up or not. And I turned around to look.
00:33:36.054 --> 00:33:38.235
And I was like, oh, never mind, because it wasn't there. I was like,
00:33:38.235 --> 00:33:40.405
okay, that's nice to know. And as I'm leaving, he goes, hey,
00:33:40.405 --> 00:33:42.010
are you looking for something specific?
00:33:42.492 --> 00:33:46.137
Let me know. Are you looking? I was like, no, I'm good. I'm good. I just walked out.
00:33:48.270 --> 00:33:52.612
Or maybe they're just trying to get rid of their current supply. trying to bottom out,
00:33:53.885 --> 00:33:57.585
speak to my own experience. When I first started this series,
00:33:58.185 --> 00:34:02.525
I went down to a local gas station and it was already banned here in Connecticut.
00:34:02.845 --> 00:34:07.085
And I said to him, I said, hey, do you have any 7-0? And he said, no.
00:34:08.005 --> 00:34:11.885
And I won't ever reveal who it is. But he said, if you head towards the university,
00:34:11.885 --> 00:34:15.485
he goes, go to the particular station on the left-hand side,
00:34:15.856 --> 00:34:17.318
they still have something they'll sell you.
00:34:18.008 --> 00:34:22.785
Interesting. You know, what scares me is... And I wonder, I wonder,
00:34:23.151 --> 00:34:26.835
people are, if they're sitting on this merchandise, or maybe they're not,
00:34:26.835 --> 00:34:30.275
but I would have to think that there's still something going on.
00:34:30.275 --> 00:34:32.462
Maybe that's me presuming.
00:34:32.810 --> 00:34:37.709
But what do you, what do people do when they can't get access to this?
00:34:37.994 --> 00:34:41.465
Do you think that they'll be making more, like, do you think we'll see more
00:34:41.465 --> 00:34:45.349
products on the market to replace this while this is under this ban?
00:34:46.053 --> 00:34:50.029
I'm wondering. I don't know if MGM-15 was included in the ban or not.
00:34:50.985 --> 00:34:54.995
I want to say it was, but I could be wrong. If it's not, though,
00:34:54.995 --> 00:34:56.224
it might get more traction.
00:34:56.479 --> 00:35:03.015
I know that there's a research chemical called SR-17018 that was supposed to
00:35:03.015 --> 00:35:05.765
be like, it's still a research chemical, but the idea was, hey,
00:35:05.765 --> 00:35:07.766
this is going to get people off of opioid addiction.
00:35:08.422 --> 00:35:12.752
And it's supposed to work really well, and I don't understand why that was included in the ban.
00:35:14.657 --> 00:35:18.648
But other than that I really don't know. 7.0 I haven't seen around.
00:35:19.595 --> 00:35:22.795
Pseudo was always under the name 7.0. You'd have to look at the ingredients
00:35:22.795 --> 00:35:23.891
to know if it was pseudo or not.
00:35:24.622 --> 00:35:28.331
I have a feeling that's gone to MGM. I have no idea.
00:35:28.651 --> 00:35:32.845
I never really went to that circle and I know a lot of these products were starting
00:35:32.845 --> 00:35:37.899
to get advertised as proprietary blends. So you didn't know what was in there.
00:35:38.973 --> 00:35:41.992
And I imagine it was probably MGM and those products but Hi.
00:35:42.839 --> 00:35:49.059
Tempted to look into it just decided not to and i guess i was fortunate thank god you didn't thank god,
00:35:50.089 --> 00:35:54.049
yeah you know there's a guy on tiktok he takes the he'll he'll actually take
00:35:54.049 --> 00:35:58.669
the pills like seven all the various 70h and he'll send them to a lab to see
00:35:58.669 --> 00:36:02.679
actually what's in it and some of them he's like holy shit he goes what you
00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:04.535
guys think you're taking he's like,
00:36:05.196 --> 00:36:10.339
whatever this is he goes this is this is next this is next level level and it's
00:36:10.339 --> 00:36:14.419
all synth it's like synthetic right i mean am i is that safe to say that it's
00:36:14.419 --> 00:36:19.785
uh it's just it's a blend of who knows what you're getting you don't know what you're getting oh,
00:36:20.733 --> 00:36:24.909
and who knows what the consequences are because you hear about i know hormonally
00:36:24.909 --> 00:36:28.459
it really messes with your body like your endocrine system yeah because i've
00:36:28.459 --> 00:36:33.279
heard of like menstrual cycles being interrupted i know that like i don't know how,
00:36:34.341 --> 00:36:37.689
i'm sure there's male stuff going i know testosterone drops the levels drop,
00:36:38.136 --> 00:36:41.909
yeah yeah Shoot, I'm sure there's a lot more that I'm not thinking of.
00:36:41.909 --> 00:36:46.700
I've heard of people getting bad skin, like flaky skin. I've heard of people losing hair.
00:36:47.626 --> 00:36:50.979
The side effects can be pretty nasty over time, right?
00:36:51.898 --> 00:36:57.494
Yeah. The first time you take it, it's all happy, you know? Right. Like every drug, right?
00:36:59.206 --> 00:37:02.869
Do you think there's a place for it?
00:37:03.741 --> 00:37:08.869
I do have. I do have users that have reached out to me and said,
00:37:08.869 --> 00:37:13.876
hey, you do talk a lot about people who are trying to get off of it,
00:37:14.091 --> 00:37:17.162
but there are people that use it for medical issues.
00:37:17.872 --> 00:37:21.274
Do you have any thoughts on that? It's funny. I've been asked that before.
00:37:22.114 --> 00:37:26.760
And my answer was, and I guess it's still the same, maybe there is. I don't know.
00:37:27.271 --> 00:37:33.156
Personally, I'm doubting it, but maybe under the proper doses, maybe if it's...
00:37:34.477 --> 00:37:39.137
Carefully given, kind of like we have with, say, Percocet or Tramadol or those
00:37:39.137 --> 00:37:42.247
things. I mean, there is, or even fentanyl, there's a legitimate use for that
00:37:42.247 --> 00:37:46.869
stuff if, you know, it's proper precautions are taken, right?
00:37:47.200 --> 00:37:51.457
And so I imagine maybe this stuff is the same way. Maybe we need to isolate
00:37:51.457 --> 00:37:54.584
some chemical in these alkaloids because there's a whole bunch of stuff in it.
00:37:55.240 --> 00:37:57.614
I'm sure there's something useful in here, you know.
00:37:58.597 --> 00:38:02.917
I don't know what it is, but I don't think we should just toss it and say this
00:38:02.917 --> 00:38:08.050
is useless. I think that, like, I've heard of people using it for pain management, right? Yes.
00:38:08.700 --> 00:38:12.707
And I think that's great. These are people that aren't able to get their strong
00:38:12.707 --> 00:38:15.215
medications that they used to. They've been cut off for some reason.
00:38:16.049 --> 00:38:19.547
There is a danger. I mean, huge danger of physical dependency,
00:38:19.547 --> 00:38:22.290
but maybe they already had that physical dependency. I don't know.
00:38:22.777 --> 00:38:27.197
I know that people have used 7 to get off of harder drugs like fentanyl and heroin, right?
00:38:27.197 --> 00:38:31.027
Because it can cover it and then because it can cover the side effects the withdrawal
00:38:31.027 --> 00:38:36.347
symptoms of those because it has such a short effect then once you get off heroin
00:38:36.347 --> 00:38:39.727
say as an example then you've only got to deal with 7-0 for a week,
00:38:40.290 --> 00:38:45.120
you know instead of the heroin which can last weeks and weeks of a withdrawal effect right? Right.
00:38:45.660 --> 00:38:48.214
Right. Like I've heard of people using it to get off of suboxone.
00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:52.417
That's how my friend got it. He was on subs and he used 7-0 to get off of that.
00:38:52.417 --> 00:38:56.167
Well kind of actually I think he had mostly quit. I think I mentioned that earlier. Right.
00:38:57.714 --> 00:39:03.055
So I'm not going to say there's no use because I'm not anywhere near the medical field, really. Right.
00:39:03.409 --> 00:39:07.574
Right. And you know what? That's, I think it's really a fair thing to say.
00:39:08.134 --> 00:39:11.272
I've never dealt, I don't have, I don't have substance issues.
00:39:11.957 --> 00:39:14.814
And I don't understand that. So how could I sit here and even,
00:39:14.814 --> 00:39:16.723
so won't, won't even touch that.
00:39:17.124 --> 00:39:22.038
Right. I think, I think we can all agree. And well, we'll find out.
00:39:23.234 --> 00:39:27.507
We know everybody will comment if we mess up. But I think we can all agree that
00:39:27.675 --> 00:39:32.417
it really is the missed marketing or too much marketing or too good of marketing.
00:39:32.574 --> 00:39:35.580
Look, when people go in, they should know what they're looking at.
00:39:35.917 --> 00:39:40.236
The number one thing I hear is that I was given this or I got a free sample.
00:39:40.701 --> 00:39:45.344
I didn't really know what it was. I wish I was told a little bit more.
00:39:45.838 --> 00:39:51.295
Those people that knew Kratom, they didn't really understand what they were taking either.
00:39:51.794 --> 00:39:54.992
I think based on what I saw, marketing is way too good.
00:39:55.929 --> 00:39:59.406
Way too good, way too pretty, way too perfect.
00:39:59.801 --> 00:40:02.334
And then to not really tell people what they're getting into.
00:40:02.714 --> 00:40:06.394
And I will never say, I mean, do I think it should be banned?
00:40:06.394 --> 00:40:09.954
I'll leave that up to everybody else. I don't think my opinion necessarily matters,
00:40:10.889 --> 00:40:15.244
but I wouldn't want kids to be able to go in there and say, Hey, what the, what the fuck?
00:40:15.244 --> 00:40:19.994
Like forget trying to get alcohol at 21. We'll just get a five pack or seven
00:40:19.994 --> 00:40:21.882
pack of 7-0 or something like that.
00:40:22.166 --> 00:40:26.564
That's a freaking problem. I mean, I know I could be wrong, but I believe they
00:40:26.564 --> 00:40:31.901
have a 21 plus on the tax list. But they do. What does it matter?
00:40:32.365 --> 00:40:35.483
Like, you know, they can get it somewhere else.
00:40:35.692 --> 00:40:39.894
And the other thing that concerns me about, like, a huge federal ban is there's
00:40:39.894 --> 00:40:40.824
going to be a black market.
00:40:41.532 --> 00:40:45.705
Right. You know, and I just worry what it's going to be contaminated with and how—.
00:40:46.945 --> 00:40:50.025
I mean, it's not like they were, you know, being watched by the FDA and doing
00:40:50.025 --> 00:40:51.745
it correctly before, right?
00:40:53.625 --> 00:40:57.515
So, but I do wonder though. Yeah. Maybe it won't be any different because it
00:40:57.515 --> 00:40:59.110
wasn't really watched anyway.
00:41:00.672 --> 00:41:02.506
Yeah. But it worries me what might replace it.
00:41:04.125 --> 00:41:08.955
That's what the wonder is. And based on also what I'm reading too,
00:41:08.955 --> 00:41:12.005
it seems like people can still kind of access it in certain parts of the country,
00:41:12.005 --> 00:41:16.405
but they're getting scared because it looks like things are really starting to come into effect.
00:41:18.013 --> 00:41:22.245
I heard of people hoarding them, like buying a whole bunch so that they can,
00:41:22.245 --> 00:41:26.337
they have a supply, which they're going to face that wall eventually.
00:41:26.924 --> 00:41:31.405
Yeah. But there's a fear there. I mean, withdrawal is a scary thing and it does.
00:41:31.405 --> 00:41:35.225
It gives you, one of the symptoms is like a fear, like a primal fear.
00:41:35.225 --> 00:41:40.455
You're, I don't want to say it's unreasonable, but it's like you're more scared
00:41:40.455 --> 00:41:42.326
of withdrawal symptoms than you really need to be.
00:41:42.640 --> 00:41:46.761
You're always assuming the worst. It just makes you feel like a panic attack, really.
00:41:48.659 --> 00:41:51.565
So I can see why people would try to stave that off as long as they can.
00:41:52.677 --> 00:41:57.435
And I really hope that they find a way to get off that's, I mean,
00:41:57.603 --> 00:42:00.256
it's not going to, as far as I know, the withdrawals don't kill you.
00:42:00.893 --> 00:42:05.619
And they're short, but they're extreme. So I wanted to say I hope they find the painless way off.
00:42:05.977 --> 00:42:10.064
But really, there's going to be a way off whether they find an easy way or not.
00:42:10.741 --> 00:42:15.595
So I just hope that they're able to get off in a way where they don't find a
00:42:15.595 --> 00:42:19.285
way to return to it. Because I really think that this product is doing a lot
00:42:19.285 --> 00:42:22.111
of damage to our bodies that we're really not understanding right now,
00:42:22.775 --> 00:42:25.492
at least at the doses that people are using them recreationally.
00:42:26.087 --> 00:42:27.867
Right, right.
00:42:29.802 --> 00:42:33.759
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's very interesting. I will definitely have to go,
00:42:34.279 --> 00:42:36.939
kind of look around at the same places I stopped in before and kind of see if
00:42:36.939 --> 00:42:40.825
it's accessible or if it's something you could get still or not, you know.
00:42:41.654 --> 00:42:46.649
Wow. Eric, your story is amazing. So how do you feel today? Let's talk about
00:42:46.649 --> 00:42:51.737
Eric today. Like you're good, you're sober, you're doing well.
00:42:52.236 --> 00:42:55.997
Yeah, I am. Good for you. The Wellbutrin really helped me.
00:42:56.595 --> 00:43:02.600
And then I think it was in May, I started using a low-dose naltrexone, LDN.
00:43:03.041 --> 00:43:06.791
And you've heard of that. It kind of helped rebalance the brain a bit.
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:11.389
And that really pumped up my energy. I felt a whole lot better after doing that.
00:43:12.080 --> 00:43:16.580
I don't know this firsthand, but I've heard that if you're starting to do LDN,
00:43:16.969 --> 00:43:21.607
if you go back to it, your tolerance is zero again. Like it resets that tolerance. Yeah.
00:43:22.878 --> 00:43:26.539
That scares me a little. Like, if I ever break down and get some,
00:43:26.539 --> 00:43:30.442
it's going to hit me just as hard as it did the first time. Right.
00:43:31.539 --> 00:43:35.679
Not to encourage people to take LDN to reset themselves, although I'm sure people
00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:38.419
do that. But LDN has really helped.
00:43:38.899 --> 00:43:42.401
I feel like it's helped me mentally get a clear head again, which I've been missing.
00:43:42.848 --> 00:43:45.489
You know, Will Butrin gave me the confidence, not confidence,
00:43:45.890 --> 00:43:49.483
the self-control to not go back to it over and over again.
00:43:49.872 --> 00:43:53.146
And I feel like the LDN is clearing up that brain fog and,
00:43:54.300 --> 00:43:58.102
don't know i just feel better than i did before maybe has nothing to do with seven yeah.
00:43:59.818 --> 00:44:04.010
I just know a lot of people recommending it so i went for it no that's good
00:44:04.010 --> 00:44:05.780
that's i thank you for sharing that,
00:44:07.176 --> 00:44:11.490
i want to ask you something this is kind of a little bit weird and and you you
00:44:11.490 --> 00:44:15.770
you share as little or as much as you as you as you like but okay based on what
00:44:15.770 --> 00:44:20.034
you were telling me a little bit about like the wellbutrin and other things do you think,
00:44:20.684 --> 00:44:22.787
do you think there's like a correlation between,
00:44:23.617 --> 00:44:27.780
like mental health and always trying to find that next thing?
00:44:27.780 --> 00:44:30.258
Or is it an addictive personality?
00:44:30.892 --> 00:44:34.387
Like, would you say, looking at yourself now, would you say, you know what?
00:44:35.217 --> 00:44:41.014
Maybe it makes sense because maybe I have mental health not issued or whatever you want to call it.
00:44:41.379 --> 00:44:43.968
Or is it because you truly have an addictive personality?
00:44:44.450 --> 00:44:48.060
That's a great question. Am I self-medicating to try to rebalance something
00:44:48.060 --> 00:44:52.651
in my brain? Or is it me enjoying the abuse? Yeah, I know.
00:44:53.626 --> 00:44:57.342
I mean, I was diagnosed with depression years ago. Okay.
00:44:58.141 --> 00:45:02.410
What they call it. It wasn't bipolar. It was like, I don't remember the name
00:45:02.410 --> 00:45:05.831
for it, but it was a certain kind where it's like, it's always bad or it's really bad.
00:45:06.661 --> 00:45:10.940
Got it. I mean, but I never really trusted that diagnosis because I never had
00:45:10.940 --> 00:45:12.049
days where I couldn't get out of bed.
00:45:12.687 --> 00:45:17.852
Right? I was never that far. But I was always down and I, whatever. But...
00:45:19.326 --> 00:45:23.616
Well, no, I think that maybe I could be trying to self-medicate because when
00:45:23.616 --> 00:45:29.200
I got into Wellbutrin, I felt a lot better and I didn't feel the need to go take this anymore.
00:45:29.397 --> 00:45:32.799
Or if I did, I was able to stop and not jump back onto it.
00:45:33.188 --> 00:45:35.346
You know, in those few times I would do it for a week and be like,
00:45:35.346 --> 00:45:36.323
ah, I don't want to do this again.
00:45:36.950 --> 00:45:41.936
It gave me a lot more self-control. So I think there might be some self-medication for me.
00:45:42.847 --> 00:45:47.676
I mean, I can't speak for everyone. Maybe some people just really enjoy feeling
00:45:47.676 --> 00:45:49.354
that way. I always enjoyed it.
00:45:49.990 --> 00:45:53.426
Yeah, right. Hey, it's a warm hug. I mean, shit. Yeah, yeah.
00:45:54.706 --> 00:45:59.176
I know there's people that can use it for a week or use any kind of recreational
00:45:59.176 --> 00:46:01.607
drug for a week and it'll be done, and they're fine with it,
00:46:01.746 --> 00:46:04.004
even if it's highly addictive, and I was never that person.
00:46:04.768 --> 00:46:06.922
So maybe there is something to that personality.
00:46:09.617 --> 00:46:13.246
Right, right. You know, can I, am I allowed to plug a website where you have
00:46:13.246 --> 00:46:15.398
a lot of resources? Please, by all means.
00:46:16.060 --> 00:46:22.336
Right, okay. So I've been a moderator for one of the subreddits for quitting
00:46:22.336 --> 00:46:26.096
seven Oh, and I've been a moderator since that thing was brand new.
00:46:26.258 --> 00:46:30.106
I mean, I I've been there a lot longer than pretty much. I think I was like
00:46:30.106 --> 00:46:31.227
the 12th person on there.
00:46:32.603 --> 00:46:35.273
First off, I want to say it's the best advice I ever got. And it was like,
00:46:35.575 --> 00:46:38.518
it's a very popular subreddit, but there were only like 10 posts when I jumped on there.
00:46:39.126 --> 00:46:43.915
And the piece of advice I got that just saved me that for that first cycle was
00:46:44.217 --> 00:46:46.646
stop reading all these horror stories about what withdrawals are.
00:46:46.646 --> 00:46:51.356
Are like and just stop using and see what happens because your experience is
00:46:51.356 --> 00:46:54.516
not going to be like everyone else's and all you're doing is psyching yourself
00:46:54.516 --> 00:46:59.369
out and making yourself afraid to do it because there are some nasty horror stories out there,
00:47:01.547 --> 00:47:05.727
I've read them. They're bad. Really bad. Really, really freaking bad.
00:47:06.393 --> 00:47:10.077
Yeah. And so in any case, back to that website. So over the months,
00:47:10.077 --> 00:47:13.487
and I guess I've been on there a couple of years, we've been trying to educate people about 7-0.
00:47:13.487 --> 00:47:16.971
And we've been trying to help those who are going through the withdrawals and
00:47:17.366 --> 00:47:23.008
the pain and even the suffering afterwards, that mental, I don't know what to call that.
00:47:23.780 --> 00:47:27.057
But, you know, that battle where you want to go back, learning how to live again
00:47:27.057 --> 00:47:29.822
sober, which is a huge deal in recovery circles, right?
00:47:31.048 --> 00:47:35.062
And anyway, so one of the mods on the subreddit, I guess I can,
00:47:35.232 --> 00:47:36.538
can I say what the subreddit is?
00:47:36.710 --> 00:47:39.213
Please, by all means. It's quitting7oh.
00:47:39.670 --> 00:47:42.778
The word quitting7oh, right?
00:47:43.288 --> 00:47:48.946
And so one of our mods developed a website called quitting7oh.org.
00:47:49.898 --> 00:47:55.268
And there is a ton of resources on there about different medications you can take.
00:47:55.568 --> 00:48:00.470
Not medication, I'm sorry, supplements and some meds that'll help with withdrawal symptoms.
00:48:01.095 --> 00:48:04.638
So if you don't want to jump into subs, which I know is scary for a lot of people,
00:48:04.638 --> 00:48:07.817
and you're worried about, oh, it's going to be on my medical records,
00:48:08.403 --> 00:48:11.056
and I think that could be a legit fear. Sure.
00:48:11.445 --> 00:48:14.278
And if you just don't want to go that route and you can't get a hold of this
00:48:14.278 --> 00:48:17.458
SR, people are calling it a miracle, but I haven't tried it,
00:48:17.603 --> 00:48:18.683
so I can't really speak for it.
00:48:18.966 --> 00:48:20.698
If you don't want to go those routes and you're kind of stuck,
00:48:21.354 --> 00:48:25.562
there's a whole lot of different supplements that can help. It won't take it away. It'll help.
00:48:26.056 --> 00:48:29.508
Things like black seed oil helped me a lot when I was trying to create them
00:48:29.508 --> 00:48:30.915
alone. It made a difference for me.
00:48:31.728 --> 00:48:36.338
Liposomal vitamin C. It's kind of a, kind of take a lot, it's a lot,
00:48:36.338 --> 00:48:41.456
a lot, but there's a whole regimen if you want to try that to, to quit this addiction.
00:48:42.245 --> 00:48:46.588
But anyway, so that website will have a lot of those helper med descriptions
00:48:46.588 --> 00:48:50.478
and how it helps and what to go through. It also has a lot of other resources
00:48:50.478 --> 00:48:52.567
like where you can go for meetings.
00:48:52.961 --> 00:48:57.588
If you want to do like an AA type thing for Kratom, I want to keep talking about
00:48:57.588 --> 00:49:00.208
what's on there, but I haven't been there in a I'm drawing blanks.
00:49:00.486 --> 00:49:04.278
But it's worth, listeners who are going through this issue, it's worth just
00:49:04.278 --> 00:49:06.892
going to the website just to get some information.
00:49:07.055 --> 00:49:10.498
Maybe you won't find it useful. Maybe you will. But if you're looking for a
00:49:10.498 --> 00:49:13.505
way out, it's worth looking at.
00:49:14.135 --> 00:49:16.370
Right? It's worth popping on there.
00:49:17.371 --> 00:49:22.772
Yeah. 100%. I'll put that in the description. People can go to it.
00:49:23.345 --> 00:49:27.598
That's fantastic. We also have a Discord server. If somebody wants to chat with
00:49:27.598 --> 00:49:31.343
someone live While they're going through a 2am craving,
00:49:32.722 --> 00:49:36.822
know what i'll have to send you the link for that server please do because i
00:49:36.822 --> 00:49:38.713
can't think off the top of my head but,
00:49:39.564 --> 00:49:43.364
Yeah. We've really tried to develop a community to help people who are going
00:49:43.364 --> 00:49:48.526
through this difficult time. Because I know that a lot of people didn't mean to get there.
00:49:51.105 --> 00:49:55.040
People told them, try this Kratom extract. You know, I hear that a lot.
00:49:55.411 --> 00:49:57.826
And I was one of those people. I had no idea what I was getting into.
00:50:00.224 --> 00:50:03.257
That's incredible. Yes, please send that to me.
00:50:03.745 --> 00:50:07.364
I think, what a resource. What a resource to know that you could just go on,
00:50:07.364 --> 00:50:11.164
whatever, and you're like struggling. and talk to somebody who like freaking
00:50:11.164 --> 00:50:14.967
understands what you're going through. I think that's amazing. That's amazing work.
00:50:15.675 --> 00:50:21.048
Yeah. We're hoping it helps. I think we have about between 1,000 and 1,500 members on the server.
00:50:21.593 --> 00:50:27.485
I'm not sure how many people are active. Honestly, I'm not very active on it. Just because, you know.
00:50:28.582 --> 00:50:32.344
But a lot of people are. A lot of people like me who have a lot of experience
00:50:32.344 --> 00:50:34.714
in quitting the substance and
00:50:34.714 --> 00:50:37.266
people who are in the middle of it who just need someone else to talk to.
00:50:37.962 --> 00:50:42.914
Yeah it is definitely a mental battle especially after that week after that hell week it's,
00:50:43.567 --> 00:50:46.376
the mental battle is insane it's hard to describe it,
00:50:47.022 --> 00:50:51.034
i guess it'd be like when you quit smoking and you really want to go back you
00:50:51.034 --> 00:50:54.145
know think of that happening for like a couple two or three months,
00:50:54.737 --> 00:50:58.314
you know it's pretty extreme yeah it's just every now and then you want it and
00:50:58.314 --> 00:51:02.754
you just easy to jump in so and that's the other thing is that when you've been
00:51:02.754 --> 00:51:07.103
using it for a long time when you go back to it, it doesn't feel like it did the first time.
00:51:07.723 --> 00:51:10.231
So you're not even getting that same high, which is maybe why,
00:51:10.690 --> 00:51:13.238
at least for me, the dosage kept increasing every time I did it.
00:51:13.966 --> 00:51:15.725
But you just, you don't get the same thing.
00:51:16.455 --> 00:51:20.157
You know, on Reddit, I believe it was somebody who said, you know,
00:51:21.062 --> 00:51:24.734
that first time you take it, it is, it's euphoric.
00:51:24.734 --> 00:51:29.234
It's unimaginable. But the problem is, is no matter, you can never,
00:51:29.234 --> 00:51:34.236
you're chasing that first time and you can never get back there called chasing the dragon.
00:51:37.386 --> 00:51:43.726
And you will hurt yourself trying to capture it yeah you really will yeah wow,
00:51:45.371 --> 00:51:50.148
Eric, I want to thank you so much for your time. This has been an incredible,
00:51:50.671 --> 00:51:55.011
you've given so much information and you're going to give me those links after
00:51:55.011 --> 00:51:56.608
and everything. I will, sure.
00:51:56.883 --> 00:52:01.771
Is there anything else you want to say before we finalize and finish off?
00:52:01.771 --> 00:52:04.021
Is there anything you want to say to everybody listening tonight?
00:52:04.021 --> 00:52:06.235
There's a lot of people that are going to watch this.
00:52:06.947 --> 00:52:09.611
I guess the main thing I would say is that you're absolutely not alone.
00:52:09.611 --> 00:52:11.265
There are a lot of people suffering.
00:52:12.191 --> 00:52:14.196
A lot of people didn't know what they were getting into.
00:52:15.311 --> 00:52:21.791
I'm sorry. Bad timing for this. No, you're okay. But I think a lot of people
00:52:21.791 --> 00:52:24.419
are concerned that they're alone. They don't have anyone out there to help them.
00:52:24.982 --> 00:52:27.651
Someone finding your podcast could just be reaching out looking for help because
00:52:27.651 --> 00:52:29.255
they haven't heard of this. They don't know what they're stuck in.
00:52:30.212 --> 00:52:32.581
You are absolutely not alone. A lot of people are going through this.
00:52:32.581 --> 00:52:36.429
They're innocents. They got trapped by a fancy package in marketing.
00:52:36.626 --> 00:52:39.331
They were told it was just craving and it's not a big deal. It just feels nicer.
00:52:39.778 --> 00:52:42.581
And you end up in this horrible place and you don't know how you got there.
00:52:42.581 --> 00:52:44.077
Maybe you've never touched pills before.
00:52:45.031 --> 00:52:48.571
But now you're in this unknown place And it hurts when you try to stop And that's
00:52:48.571 --> 00:52:52.570
a dreadful place to be And I've been there And a ton of people have been there
00:52:53.000 --> 00:52:56.101
And there's plenty of people who have gotten out And there's plenty of people
00:52:56.101 --> 00:52:57.481
who get out And then go back in,
00:52:58.531 --> 00:53:01.063
And there's some who just can't get off Anyway, the point is.
00:53:02.259 --> 00:53:05.776
You can find somebody who understands what you're going through.
00:53:06.446 --> 00:53:08.722
You do not have to do this alone. You really don't.
00:53:09.619 --> 00:53:13.669
And I just, I hope that people understand that. And also don't let the horror
00:53:13.669 --> 00:53:17.799
stories of people who are stopping make you not stop.
00:53:18.680 --> 00:53:23.800
Right? Because that's, that piece of advice is what got me to quit the first time.
00:53:24.119 --> 00:53:27.629
And it was such a golden piece of advice. And I see so many people getting tripped
00:53:27.629 --> 00:53:31.899
up in the subreddit that I'm on. that's just, they're always like,
00:53:31.899 --> 00:53:33.651
I'm afraid, I'm afraid, I'm afraid.
00:53:34.097 --> 00:53:38.613
And yeah, there's reason to be afraid, but it doesn't have to be that guy that,
00:53:39.285 --> 00:53:44.099
you know, was like crying all night and couldn't get a wink of sleep and knows
00:53:44.099 --> 00:53:46.077
it's going to get worse because there's a peak, right?
00:53:46.518 --> 00:53:50.518
Right. Your story may not be like that. Probably won't be. Everyone's unique to a point.
00:53:51.058 --> 00:53:53.554
And there's also that personal fortitude.
00:53:54.546 --> 00:53:57.797
Maybe it won't be as hard for you to go through that. Maybe that person is just,
00:53:58.379 --> 00:54:03.415
can't take that kind of abuse. Like I have, I've had panic attacks since I was a teenager.
00:54:04.019 --> 00:54:10.113
Right. So the, the idea of having anxiety, which is a huge symptom of this, it just terrifies me.
00:54:10.641 --> 00:54:14.379
Yeah. You know, and for someone else, it may not be, they may be fine with feeling
00:54:14.379 --> 00:54:18.014
that way. So, you know, everyone's story is gonna be different.
00:54:18.170 --> 00:54:20.592
Find your own. Everyone's going to have a different road to quit.
00:54:21.073 --> 00:54:24.859
Right. Find your own. And the best way to start doing that is to stop reading
00:54:24.859 --> 00:54:28.062
these horror stories and just start trying.
00:54:28.278 --> 00:54:32.591
Taper down or quit completely. Use a helper med. There's a lot of different paths out there.
00:54:33.223 --> 00:54:38.140
And through all of it, there are people who you can talk to during that time.
00:54:38.864 --> 00:54:42.799
So there are resources. There were not when I was coming through this two years
00:54:42.799 --> 00:54:45.580
ago. It was like nothing. But there are now.
00:54:46.819 --> 00:54:51.419
There's no reason to suffer. It's, you know, we're, yeah, there's,
00:54:51.419 --> 00:54:53.890
you know, it's 2026. There's lots of different ways to.
00:54:55.210 --> 00:55:01.340
Not have to suffer completely. You know, some people are real advocates of you
00:55:01.340 --> 00:55:02.491
got to go through that pain.
00:55:02.793 --> 00:55:05.075
And only then will you understand that you'll never want to go back.
00:55:05.446 --> 00:55:07.426
That's not true. People will go back after that.
00:55:09.010 --> 00:55:12.770
Right. You're just physically in pain. There's no shame in seeking help and
00:55:12.770 --> 00:55:16.934
there's a lot of help out there if you want to find it. So don't give up.
00:55:17.590 --> 00:55:20.910
And if you go back, don't give up. You can keep trying to quit.
00:55:22.274 --> 00:55:24.295
Some people quit for two years but they keep going.
00:55:25.910 --> 00:55:28.492
You are living proof that it can be done. You know, you really are.
00:55:28.747 --> 00:55:32.375
Five cycles. Five. Five. Which is embarrassing, really.
00:55:33.188 --> 00:55:37.704
Nah. So I guess I never quit. I just took like two or three week breaks. Yeah.
00:55:38.377 --> 00:55:41.710
Yeah. You never gave up. That's the most important thing. Right.
00:55:42.469 --> 00:55:46.980
Thank you for your time so much. Thank you for sharing, opening up everything.
00:55:46.980 --> 00:55:48.825
Thank you for the valuable information.
00:55:49.220 --> 00:55:51.925
You and I will not stay out of contact. We're friends now.
00:55:53.224 --> 00:55:59.196
So as soon as this is done, I will obviously send you the link and everything and we'll go from there.
00:55:59.457 --> 00:56:04.790
And I want to help any way I can and use our platform to help. So we'll stay in touch.
00:56:05.210 --> 00:56:07.098
Your subreddit has been so good to me.
00:56:07.777 --> 00:56:13.000
The nicest people helping me help you and whatnot, just getting the word out.
00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:14.652
So thank you so much for everything, Eric.
00:56:14.942 --> 00:56:17.010
We'll be in touch. Okay. Thank you.
00:56:17.370 --> 00:56:20.631
Appreciate you letting talk to you. Thank you. Bye-bye. Good night.
00:56:21.462 --> 00:56:24.228
You tune into the only show where chaos comes complimentary.