Why Most School Improvement Plans Fail Before They Even Begin ft. Dr. Lisa Riegel | Transformational Educators Ep. 39

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Hello everyone.
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Dr.
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Matthew Flippin here.
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Today we're revisiting a conversation on transformational educators that change the way I think about school culture.
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My talk with Dr.
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Lisa Regal, neuroscience informed leadership strategist and the creator of the Neural Framework.
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Lisa's big idea is achievement gaps aren't usually a learning problem.
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They're an engagement problem, a relationship problem, a stress problem.
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She breaks down exactly what's happening in a student's brain when they don't feel safe or seen, and why that matters more than any new curriculum you buy.
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We also dive into an incredible case study, an alternative school she's worked with for over 15 years that completely redesigned how it taught struggling and at-risk students.
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The result?
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A 30% jump in graduation rates.
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She walks through exactly how they did it step by step without overwhelming the staff.
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If you lead people in a classroom or across a whole campus, this one's going to give you a lot to think about.
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Watch, and if it resonates, please like, share, and subscribe so you don't miss what's coming next.
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We'll be back soon with a brand new episode.
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Thanks for being here.
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I'm a big believer that everybody can learn.
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And so to me, when you have achievement gaps, it's not always a learning problem.
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It's an engagement problem, it's a relationship problem, it's a stress regulation problem.
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The kid doesn't feel intellectually safe, or they don't feel a sense of belonging.
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That is Dr.
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Lisa Regal, neuroscience-informed leadership strategist, creator of the NeuroWell Framework, and CEO of the Educational Partnerships Institute.
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Dr.
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Regal explains that traditional school improvement plans fail because they ignore the brain science behind stress, perception, and motivation.
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She has spent over 20 years helping schools redesign their systems from the inside out.
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So our brain is like we have these different departments in the brain responsible for taking in the environment and letting us know how we should feel about it.
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So the first one is our thalamus, and I call him our data manager.
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I name mine Harold.
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By the end of this conversation, you will learn why brain science reveals that school culture, not curriculum, drive student achievement.
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How a 15-year partnership with an alternative school produced a 30% increase in graduation rates and a step-by-step framework for implementing change without overwhelming your team.
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I'm Dr.
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Matthew Flippin, and this is Transformational Educators.
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When did you first connect brain science with the school improvement design?
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So in my um studies, I really studied a lot of the social sciences, like motivation and engagement, learning design, all that kind of stuff.
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And then I started realizing real change is happening in the brain.
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And I actually really got interested in the brain because of my children.
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My daughter had some um health issues for a while.
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And so I started digging into how the brain works.
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And then my son, I'm the only one in my house without ADHD.
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So as a mom, I started really looking at what is going on in their head.
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And I started understanding the brain better.
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And then it just kind of ballooned from there where I was like, this is science people know and need to know.
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And then um the science of reading came down and we finally started aligning the way we teach reading with the actual way our brain learns reading, which was like a big aha for people.
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And I started thinking, well, the same thing applies in behavior and motivation and happiness and all of these things.
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So why aren't we connecting the science with that end of what we're doing in schools versus just the academic piece?
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Well, one of the things we want to kind of connect that work to is school improvement plans.
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Right.
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So one of the things you know I'd love to hear about, you know, is did you notice as you were working with schools that um that this work connects to why plans fail at times and what and what did that look like?
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So I've done lots of work in strategic planning and and my real where I shine is the implementation.
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How do we actually move a system?
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And so when we create a foundation using brain science, so how we build a culture that's ready for change.
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Um and then I created what I call the eight C commitment framework.
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Um, and that framework has three C's that are related to planning.
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So there's clarity, coherence, and cadence.
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Um, though, and again, those none of these are gonna work if you don't have a foundation with a positive culture.
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So you start with culture, then you get your planning C's, and and really it's, you know, what do you want to see?
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What do you want to hear?
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And and it really relates back to kind of the stress, the way our brain perceives stress.
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When there's changes, we get stressed out, we don't have access to the thinking part of our brain.
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And I think in schools, a lot of times we ask teachers to do things, we give them some professional development, and then we say, you're good to go.
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Why don't you just go do it?
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And we're not attending to the science of change.
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And there's actually seven conditions that need to occur for us to create a new habit.
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And most of the time they're not present, which is why everybody gives up on their New Year's resolutions like by January 15th.
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So I created the framework with the culture and then the planning C's, and then there's two C's related to engagement, which is really around coaching and um collaboration.
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And so, how do we create safe spaces for people to be productive and efficient in teams?
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And then the last two C's are about celebration and communication and understanding.
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I'm a big proponent of self-awareness, self-regulation, and self-control.
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And as a school leader, you can't have self-control unless you have self-awareness and self-regulation.
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And then by doing that for yourself and then understanding how to do that, you can build those qualities in your staff so that they feel a sense of agency and control and safety and they're able to actually make change and make transformation stick.
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Yes, absolutely.
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Totally agree.
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I mean, you are so speaking our our language of, you know, that trust-based uh leadership is critical, that trust uh establishment of culture early uh is necessary for all other things to to move forward.
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So when you were a campus leader, I'm just curious, did you did you attempt to implement something and you ran into this kind of roadblock and that later contributed?
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I'd love to hear what that looked like.
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Well, I actually have a positive story that underlines why this um really became important to me.
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So I was I created something called terrific teachers.
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And I um so basically what I told students nominate a teacher and just write a short blurb about why that teacher is so terrific for you.
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And so the the students wrote that, and then we actually had like an evening event with like spaghetti dinner and cake and stuff.
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And I was stunned by the number of teachers that brought their parents, their spouses, their children.
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And then we had the students read what they had written about the teacher.
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And almost all of them, well, none of them were they're amazing at teaching me how to solve a function.
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They were all about relationships and caring and being seen and being heard and being vulnerable and all of these things.
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And there were tears.
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And I got them like a little terrific teacher pin for their lanyard and a little certificate.
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And it was crazy because I went back to the school, this was like eight, nine years later, after we had done this, and people still had those hanging in their little cubbies and their offices, and they still had their pins.
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And it was just such a meaningful moment to say, hey, we need to recognize the human part of the system because what I've pushed against so much, and so this kind of gets to the negative, is when we're trying to implement changes, you know, a new curriculum is fine, but that doesn't solve underlying reasons why kids are disengaged.
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So we we oftentimes have strategic plans that don't really include action steps and measurable outcomes for the human side of the system.
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And it was really, and it was really difficult to get even my fellow administrators to get anywhere beyond just conceptual language.
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And so I always talk about you got to move from your aspirations to operations.
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You know, you got to go from conceptual to concrete.
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What do we see and hear when we have a culture that actually works for everybody?
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And and you know, I say all the time, culture is not words, it's actions.
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But a lot of schools spend thousands of dollars on words and posters and, you know, those little bracelets and things.
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But when you actually say, what are you doing?
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How are you building these sets of repetitive actions that lead to people living this culture?
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They don't really have an answer.
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I love that example.
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I mean, that is that is something that anyone could implement, this terrific teacher nominated by students and personal notes and a celebration.
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I mean, what a what a wonderful example.
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How did that connect to the improvements that you were trying to make on that campus?
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Some of it was trying to close achievement gaps.
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And, you know, and again, it goes down.
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I'm a big believer that everybody can learn.
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And so to me, when you have achievement gaps, it's not always a learning problem.
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It's an engagement problem, it's a relationship problem, it's a stress regulation problem.
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The kid doesn't feel intellectually safe or they don't feel a sense of belonging.
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And so by attacking those issues and saying, how do we build a sense of belonging where this place is emotionally and intellectually safe for kids?
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How do we have supportive classrooms?
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Those things will close achievement gaps.
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Um, but I I find that a lot of schools just buy more curriculum or more teachers or more tutors or more, but they're not really addressing that underlying reason of why isn't this kid engaged in learning?
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Yeah, I mean, identifying the true root cause of uh of challenges and gaps is uh is a challenge for sure.
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So I I'd love that you're speaking directly to that.
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So as you implemented this and you and that connection, what were the outcomes that you saw?
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What what did that look like over time?
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Well, one thing that I saw was that because some of the teachers that weren't nominated came and and the teachers who were nominated, it it really was it was evidence in their face of the importance of relationships with kids.
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And we talk about that all the time, but I feel like especially considering because we measure what matters, and currently right now, we're measuring credentialing, we're measuring content scores, math scores, English scores.
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And um, I feel like the whole system has moved from we teach kids to we teach content.
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And so it it was a wake-up call for people to recognize the power of shifting that back, that when we're teaching kids versus teaching content, our role in the classroom changes and those relationships we build change, and kids actually do better.
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Um, and so and and I think it goes back to I always loved the at-risk kids.
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Those were the kids that I taught, and and they did well.
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And people were like, I don't know how you teach those kids.
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And I'm like, I never have any problems.
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I don't have any problems with them.
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They I they I respect them, they respect me, we get to work, we get things done.
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And and so I feel like that that whole process woke up a lot of people who were pretty rigid to the idea of wow, we need to actually be thinking about the kids versus thinking about the curriculum and the content as much.
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And it's thinking about the kid and how safe do they feel, right?
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I mean, it's really very, very specific.
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Give us a little bit of insight into the what's happening in the brain when a child that's from a challenging background walks into a classroom.
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What's affecting their motivation?
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From a biology standpoint, like our brains, any of our behavior, academic behavior, social behavior, your behavior, my behavior, it's the product of our biology and our context.
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And so one of the things that I teach people a lot is about how perceptions are formed.
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So most people understand if you're stressed, you can't learn.
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And I mean, we've kind of that's sort of a common knowledge at this point.
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But to me, the more important piece is what caused us the stress in the first place.
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So perceptions are all formed in the limbic part of our brain, which is below our nose.
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So 80% of the thinking and traffic that's happening in our brain is unconscious.
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It's below our nose.
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So we're doing a lot of thinking we're not aware of.
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And that's where our perceptions come from.
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So our brain is like we have these different departments in the brain responsible for taking in the environment and letting us know how we should feel about it.
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So the first one is our thalamus, and I call him our data manager.
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I name mine Harold.
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So Harold's my data manager.
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And Harold's job is to talk to my vagus nerve, and the vagus nerve is like a systems manager, and it's always policing our body to say, you know, internally, is our heart beating, are our lungs functioning, is our stomach emptying, is everything working?
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And then its other job is to say, do we know where our body is in space?
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Because if I'm standing right next to a cliff, I could fall off.
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So the brain needs to be like, hey, you need to be alert.
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So this vagus nerve is always monitoring what's going on in the systems and letting Harold know.
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The second thing Harold's looking at is all the sensory environment um data.
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So what do I smell?
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What do I hear?
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What do I see?
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And and then his first job is to go into our amygdala where we store sensory memories.
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Because that's another thing people don't realize.
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We don't have a library in our brain where we want to pull up a memory and we just go to the card catalog, and now I'm really saying how old I am because the card catalog, but they pull out the memory and read it.
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And that's our brain actually fragments memories and stores it in multiple places.
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So when we are forming a perception, the only memories that we have access to are our sensory memories.
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And so our brain's always looking for patterns because if every new experience was novel, our brain would explode.
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We wouldn't know how to respond.
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So we look for these patterns.
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So Harold goes in and says, what I'm experiencing now reminds me of or and makes these sensory associations.
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So one of the then he pulls up these sensory associations, they almost act like a um a screen or a filter.
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And so if you think of reality like a banana, and then you put all these different filters and screens and shove that banana through, at the other end, it doesn't look like a banana anymore.
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And and when we understand that this is going on, that's the biology of it.
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And then the context is what shapes those filters.
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And so one of the things I see that's a faulty assumption is well, they're at school, they're safe, they're fine, they shouldn't act like this.
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And that they can leave their whole past behind them when they walk through the door.
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And that's not biologically possible because Harold's going into those memories.
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And if my teacher reminds me of my aunt and my aunt was a horrible person to me, my brain and body are going to respond the same way as they would with my aunt, as they would with the teacher.
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So those associations are not necessarily context specific.
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And so when we look at behaviors in the classroom, I always tell teachers, you know, the past has everything to do with the present.
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And so if you see a student really struggling or disengaged or, you know, shutting down or being combative, there's something in this current context that's triggering Harold to write a negative report and say we're in danger, and then triggering our security system, which I call Bob is the amygdala, telling Bob, hey, you need to hit the panic button.
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And the second thing with this is that what we're observing, if a student is in a stress reaction and their brain is saying you're in danger and made faulty associations, then we're not talking to that kid.
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We're talking to Harold and Bob.
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Because if Bob hits the panic button, he sends a message up to the front of our brain, which is where we live, our morals, our character, our beliefs, our information processing, all of that.
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Bob sends a message up that says, Hey, we're in danger.
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So go grab a cup of coffee.
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We're gonna have a fire drill, get out of here.
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And Harold and I will take care of this, and then we'll let you know when it's safe to come back.
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And so when I see educators saying, you know, well, why are you so upset or what's going on, or why did you do that?
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They're trying to talk to the CEO and the CEO isn't there.
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And that's why sometimes after we calm down, we're like, why did I do that?
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Like a kid can process what they did and be like, that was really stupid.
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I don't even know why I did that.
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So one of the things I talk a lot about is we need to teach people self-awareness so they understand what filters they have in their brain, because true self-control requires that the CEO is actually leading the organization and not the other way around.
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Hey, is today's conversation resonating with you?
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You know, the educators we feature on this podcast all have one thing in common.
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They're committed to growth, not just for their students, but for themselves.
00:17:39.649 --> 00:17:52.129
At Graceland University, we've built programs and partnerships that support that kind of growth, servant leadership, and school transformation for educators who want to make a lasting difference.
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If you're curious about what that could look like for you, scan the QR code or check out the link in the show notes.
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Let's get back to the conversation.
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I think what's fascinating about this too is how, you know, we talk about this as it relates to children, but but really adults in the building are having the same type of experiences.
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They're reacting to a child that reminds them of a difficult child that they had before, or they're reacting to a leader who reminds them of a difficult leader they had before, or they're I mean, all the stresses and everything else that that goes into that.
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Um, I know that we had talked um before about an example where you uh consulted with a system along this idea of top-to-bottom uh change, of improving safety.
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I'd love to hear about like um you know, a little bit about that that case of what it was like when you arrived, what you saw.
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Um, I'm sure inside you were some alarms are going off.
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Uh and then uh and then you know what the plan of improvement looked like to, you know, where they are today.
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So I've worked with the this school for over 15 years, and they had a school improvement grant, and I was the person that came and delivered some professional development for them.
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And they are a school that is for kids who've been expelled, suspended, um, lots of mental health issues.
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They're basically for kids that regular school just isn't gonna work.
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So when I started working with them, what I noticed was that the staff was, you know, if a kid dropped an F-bomb, they didn't kick him out of class.
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They were ready to deal with kids that that maybe came from, you know, more difficult backgrounds.
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But what I said to the school director at one point, I said, you know, you have a very loving staff that really cares about these kids.
00:19:42.769 --> 00:19:45.009
The problem is they're not learning anything.
00:19:45.009 --> 00:19:49.649
They've learned to distract and manipulate the system and not get anything done.
00:19:49.649 --> 00:19:51.970
And so you've created this protective bubble.
00:19:51.970 --> 00:19:54.769
But when they walk out into the real world, that bubble pops.
00:19:54.769 --> 00:19:56.930
So what are we really doing for them?
00:19:56.930 --> 00:20:01.490
And so she came back and said, This is haunting me because it's true.
00:20:01.490 --> 00:20:03.170
So what can we do?
00:20:03.170 --> 00:20:06.609
And I said, Well, and we talked about how perceptions are formed.
00:20:06.609 --> 00:20:15.410
And I said, you know, when a student walks through the door of a school, these are students that do not have positive associations with most things about school.
00:20:15.410 --> 00:20:20.609
And so what if we completely blew the whole system up and did things differently?
00:20:20.609 --> 00:20:30.129
So we removed um class periods, but the students now are in pods and they travel with their pods for each of the teachers throughout the day.
00:20:30.129 --> 00:20:33.410
They switched all to mastery-based learning.
00:20:33.410 --> 00:20:43.009
And, you know, we've been talking for decades about sage on the stage versus guide on the side, but I still see Sage on the stage most places I go.
00:20:43.009 --> 00:20:46.849
And so we really push to you are a guide on the side.
00:20:46.849 --> 00:21:01.250
So instruction is delivered, they get choice boards, and you might say, okay, this unit's worth 100 points, and these items are five-point items, these items are 15-point items, and students can select how they want to learn the material.
00:21:01.250 --> 00:21:05.970
And the teachers do almost know a whole group instruction.
00:21:05.970 --> 00:21:13.649
In fact, I had a teacher who had um geometry, algebra one, and algebra two students all in the same class.
00:21:13.649 --> 00:21:15.730
So you can imagine the challenge there.
00:21:15.730 --> 00:21:25.809
Well, she did choice boards, and then she would like kind of have one unit that would kick off on a day, and she would pull those students up and do some small group teaching.
00:21:25.809 --> 00:21:28.369
Then they would go back and work on their choice boards.
00:21:28.369 --> 00:21:41.410
Then the next day it was the algebra one kids, and then the next day, and and so we worked really hard to redesign what the classroom looked like and position the teacher as a support system versus the knower of all things.
00:21:41.410 --> 00:21:46.529
And what she called me in April last year and she said, Um, I'm done.
00:21:46.529 --> 00:21:48.049
And I said, What do you mean done?
00:21:48.049 --> 00:21:49.569
She said, We're finished.
00:21:49.569 --> 00:21:55.329
I put the algebra one kids on algebra two, I've got the geometry kids moving into some advanced stuff.
00:21:55.329 --> 00:21:56.849
She's like, I don't know what to do with them.
00:21:56.849 --> 00:22:03.809
So the thing I hear from teachers all the time is, you know, I have to teach them everything before they can do anything with it.
00:22:03.809 --> 00:22:06.289
And we kind of flipped that on its head.
00:22:06.289 --> 00:22:15.889
And what was nice about it too was that students, you know, if they came in, because some of the students, I mean, they have homeless students, they have students that are dealing with major, major hunger life issues.
00:22:15.889 --> 00:22:19.410
So what we did was we have these choice boards.
00:22:19.410 --> 00:22:21.809
Students can work on whatever they want to work on.
00:22:21.809 --> 00:22:30.690
And so if they're having a day that they just really need to make up, you know, language arts work, then they can work on that in the other pods.
00:22:30.690 --> 00:22:34.849
Um, and so it became A really self-directed learning atmosphere.
00:22:34.849 --> 00:22:44.210
What we found was that when we took the power struggle away from the students, because the students, it becomes kind of an art form to get the teacher angry and get them off track.
00:22:44.210 --> 00:22:46.609
And because that's an avoidance tactic, right?
00:22:46.609 --> 00:22:52.930
When we took that away, then there was no need to have conflict and their discipline went down.
00:22:52.930 --> 00:22:54.930
The principal called me and said, I'm bored.
00:22:54.930 --> 00:22:56.930
Like I was used to like putting fires out all day.
00:22:56.930 --> 00:22:57.809
These kids are fine.
00:22:57.809 --> 00:22:58.930
Everybody's fine.
00:22:58.930 --> 00:23:02.129
And um, their graduation rate shot up like 30%.
00:23:02.129 --> 00:23:06.609
I mean, it's been really remarkable and it just continues to evolve.
00:23:06.609 --> 00:23:10.129
And then we also have a very robust parent engagement program.
00:23:10.129 --> 00:23:17.730
So we bring parents in, we give them a safe space to learn a little bit about parenting and supporting learning in the home.
00:23:17.730 --> 00:23:20.849
And also just to have some fellowship with other parents.
00:23:20.849 --> 00:23:27.250
And so, you know, sometimes they do crafts or activities, but it it develops that trust and relationship with the school.
00:23:27.250 --> 00:23:39.410
And again, it shifts from that we're all about just getting your kid a diploma to we really care about your kid and we want to work with you to make your kid the happiest, healthiest human we can help to make him.
00:23:39.649 --> 00:23:40.529
Wow, amazing.
00:23:40.529 --> 00:23:42.450
Lisa, what an incredible story.
00:23:42.450 --> 00:23:45.809
And this was uh this was a high school, there's a high school age group.
00:23:45.809 --> 00:23:46.849
Six through twelve.
00:23:46.849 --> 00:23:47.970
Six through twelve.
00:23:47.970 --> 00:23:52.690
Children that had been essentially expelled from traditional school.
00:23:52.690 --> 00:24:01.089
Um, and I I totally get, I mean, one, you you know, you you obviously there's a great heart for children at this place among the staff.
00:24:01.089 --> 00:24:10.849
And um, but uh I totally see where you know that heart can sometimes lead to children underperforming or manipulating the system.
00:24:10.849 --> 00:24:13.329
This is really such a great, such a great example.
00:24:13.329 --> 00:24:21.089
So what was the staff's uh response initially to let's blow it up?
00:24:21.089 --> 00:24:21.569
Right?
00:24:21.809 --> 00:24:22.609
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:22.609 --> 00:24:25.889
Well, and one thing that was great is they trusted me.
00:24:25.889 --> 00:24:27.730
I'd been working with them for years.
00:24:27.730 --> 00:24:31.329
So, and and they didn't have a tremendous amount of turnover.
00:24:31.329 --> 00:24:40.609
Um, and so when we talked about it, we pulled up their data, we pulled up their discipline data, we pulled up and we and we said, let's just have a really honest conversation.
00:24:40.609 --> 00:24:43.410
What's the value for the kid coming here?
00:24:43.410 --> 00:24:44.849
What we're doing isn't working.
00:24:44.849 --> 00:24:51.970
These are kids that have, you know, they come to the school with two credits and they've got to try to figure out how to get them to be productive.
00:24:51.970 --> 00:24:57.410
And I said, but just getting them a diploma with no skills, and that happens.
00:24:57.410 --> 00:25:01.329
You know, we graduate kids who can't even read, and that doesn't make any sense.
00:25:01.329 --> 00:25:05.730
And so just getting them a piece of paper is not the pathway to success in their future.
00:25:05.730 --> 00:25:06.849
They they need these skills.
00:25:06.849 --> 00:25:07.970
So we have to have both.
00:25:07.970 --> 00:25:11.410
We have to have compassion and we also have to have expectations.
00:25:11.410 --> 00:25:27.089
And so we we talked about that for a while, and then um, it was there were tears, there were, you know, frustration, but I worked hand in hand um helping them build the curriculum, helping them go through and really think about how to structure their classrooms.
00:25:27.089 --> 00:25:29.569
I spent a lot of time in their classrooms.
00:25:29.569 --> 00:25:32.930
And really what happened was the proof was in the pudding.
00:25:32.930 --> 00:25:35.730
The kids all of a sudden started learning.
00:25:35.730 --> 00:25:39.970
And they were, and the teachers were like, what is this new world going on here?
00:25:39.970 --> 00:25:41.649
There was like no conflict.
00:25:41.649 --> 00:25:43.569
The kids were getting things done.
00:25:43.569 --> 00:25:54.129
And now when you walk the school and you go into classrooms, you see little groups of students talking about the content, helping each other at the desk with the teacher in a small group.
00:25:54.129 --> 00:26:00.690
Um, they have all kinds of ways to track their productivity and their progress and they celebrate that all the time.
00:26:00.690 --> 00:26:02.769
And we did lose two teachers.
00:26:02.769 --> 00:26:05.329
There were two teachers that were like, this isn't for me.
00:26:05.329 --> 00:26:08.690
And it was like, okay, then it's not the right place for you.
00:26:08.690 --> 00:26:15.889
Um, but the staff they have now, like when you when you go in and just see the staff, they love those kids and the kids know it.
00:26:15.889 --> 00:26:19.889
And and it's interesting because they still have high-risk kids that are coming to them.
00:26:19.889 --> 00:26:26.529
And you know, they come in and they always try to kind of puff their feathers and and you know, get their place that they're tough and they're not going to do this.
00:26:26.529 --> 00:26:29.809
And it's amazing because the kids who go there go, we don't do that here.
00:26:29.809 --> 00:26:32.129
That's not, we don't, that's not how we act.
00:26:32.129 --> 00:26:48.690
And so I think they've like embraced the environment and the safety and and the love that they know that the staff has for them, that when they ask them to do something, they're not just needling them to be compliant and you know, it's not about control and compliance, it's truly about the kid.
00:26:49.009 --> 00:26:55.329
So I can imagine that someone that is listening to this thinking, I heard you say you had to redesign the curriculum.
00:26:55.329 --> 00:26:56.529
So that's too hard.
00:26:56.769 --> 00:26:57.569
Well, you know what?
00:26:57.569 --> 00:26:59.730
It's not anymore because of AI.
00:26:59.730 --> 00:27:01.889
It's super easy, actually.
00:27:01.889 --> 00:27:13.569
And so basically, all so what we what we did, we took the curriculum they had and we broke it down in first of all, we looked at curriculum is is created for the 50th percentile.
00:27:13.569 --> 00:27:19.410
It's supposed to be effective for a kid in rural Texas and a kid in New York City and a kid in Alaska.
00:27:19.410 --> 00:27:22.210
And we all know the totally different contexts.
00:27:22.210 --> 00:27:25.250
So every single thing doesn't work for every single kid.
00:27:25.250 --> 00:27:37.410
So what we did was we took the curriculum and said, okay, what are the parts of this that what are the tools the kids generally like that we get engagement, that we get, you know, those are the ones we're gonna do with the whole group.
00:27:37.410 --> 00:27:43.809
Then we looked at, okay, here's, you know, here's the skills they need to know, here's all the other tools that the curriculum offers.
00:27:43.809 --> 00:27:47.730
So how could we create a choice board using those?
00:27:47.730 --> 00:27:55.569
And and then assign, you know, the easier ones that are more lower level thinking or worth less points, and then you work your way up to more points.
00:27:55.569 --> 00:28:05.329
So um, so that's what we we did with the curriculum, and then we started to look for spaces where there were holes where they could um they could create their own materials.
00:28:05.329 --> 00:28:16.930
And one of the things that I I think, and I actually worked for the state of Ohio in trying to help educators understand the difference between standards, curriculum, instruction, and assessment.
00:28:16.930 --> 00:28:22.450
And it seems like it should be easy, but I hear people all the time say, I have to teach the curriculum.
00:28:22.450 --> 00:28:24.690
No, you have to teach the skills.
00:28:24.690 --> 00:28:26.210
You're teaching the standards.
00:28:26.210 --> 00:28:29.490
The curriculum is a tool to teach those standards.
00:28:29.490 --> 00:28:35.250
So if the curriculum isn't working to teach those standards, then why are you still using it?
00:28:35.250 --> 00:28:38.129
Like use the pieces and parts that are successful.
00:28:38.129 --> 00:28:43.009
But I think teachers are so pressured to like follow the curriculum exactly the way it goes.
00:28:43.009 --> 00:28:47.250
And so you end up with teachers saying things like, Well, I just have to get through this curriculum.
00:28:47.250 --> 00:28:48.930
I can't, I don't have time for this.
00:28:48.930 --> 00:28:50.129
I have to get through it.
00:28:50.129 --> 00:28:56.289
And it's like if you're if you're going through the curriculum but nobody's learning, you're not really teaching, you're just talking.
00:28:56.289 --> 00:29:00.369
And so, how do we start to use it more strategically?
00:29:00.369 --> 00:29:04.609
And so, um, so that's kind of how we we broke into the curriculum with AI.
00:29:04.609 --> 00:29:17.970
You can put a prompt in with AI that says, develop me a choice board for the following standards, and we have this, you know, vendor curriculum, try to merge the two, and in five seconds it'll spit out a choice board for you.
00:29:17.970 --> 00:29:23.009
So all the hard thinking we had to do way back when we started this is super easy now.
00:29:23.329 --> 00:29:25.009
Yeah, it's so true, so true.
00:29:25.009 --> 00:29:30.690
And I and we definitely are encouraging people to use the tools that we have in our hands.
00:29:30.690 --> 00:29:45.410
This idea of a guide versus a sage uh is actually the complete way that that uh Graceland University's programs are structured, that our instructors are guides, facilitators of relationships and learning.
00:29:45.410 --> 00:29:48.930
So I totally, totally align with that.
00:29:48.930 --> 00:29:53.970
So connect this process back to the brain science.
00:29:53.970 --> 00:30:08.450
And I'm curious about the the the what's happening in the brain of the leader in this kind of environment when they first are exposed to this kind of uh approach, right, that you've just introduced.
00:30:08.450 --> 00:30:12.450
And then what happens from that point forward?
00:30:12.450 --> 00:30:23.250
I would hope that someone would start to say, I wonder how I could experiment with this to do a small pilot or a small test so that I can build some confidence.
00:30:23.250 --> 00:30:28.690
Uh, but tell me what's what's going on at the for the leader in this scenario.
00:30:29.089 --> 00:30:33.569
So the first thing with leaders, we want teachers to be guides on the side.
00:30:33.569 --> 00:30:35.809
That's what leaders need to be for their teachers.
00:30:35.809 --> 00:30:39.809
Then we went through and really worked that 8C framework.
00:30:39.809 --> 00:30:41.410
So we talked about culture.
00:30:41.410 --> 00:30:42.529
What do we do here?
00:30:42.529 --> 00:30:44.049
How do we how do we act?
00:30:44.049 --> 00:30:48.289
And and they, you know, the kids live that culture, as I mentioned before.
00:30:48.289 --> 00:30:50.930
Like when other kids come in, it's like, that's not how we do things here.
00:30:50.930 --> 00:30:55.490
And so it really is, and she protects that culture from outside forces.
00:30:55.490 --> 00:31:02.210
Then we really went through and and went through those planning, like cadence, coherence, and um clarity.
00:31:02.210 --> 00:31:07.329
And the clarity piece, we work together with the staff to say what can this look like.
00:31:07.329 --> 00:31:14.049
Um, and the coherence piece was like, how do we tie all these things together so we don't have 50 different initiatives going on?
00:31:14.049 --> 00:31:16.210
But the real one was that cadence piece.
00:31:16.210 --> 00:31:27.329
And I think this is the part that principals have to be um thoughtful of is you're talking about going from a desired, from a current state to a desired state that's very different.
00:31:27.329 --> 00:31:31.329
And so you have to create some stepping stones along the way.
00:31:31.329 --> 00:31:36.690
So, for example, I worked with a different school that said we really want more student engagement.
00:31:36.690 --> 00:31:41.569
We want small group instruction, we want data-driven small group intervention.
00:31:41.569 --> 00:31:44.289
And I was like, okay, well, all that is like a word salad.
00:31:44.289 --> 00:31:45.490
It's just conceptual.
00:31:45.490 --> 00:31:47.009
So, what do you want to see?
00:31:47.009 --> 00:31:54.369
So we kind of stair-stepped it out and we said, okay, first, first step, you're a whole group instructor and this is all you've ever known.
00:31:54.369 --> 00:31:59.089
First step, move your desks, move your desks and put kids in small groups.
00:31:59.089 --> 00:32:00.210
That's it.
00:32:00.210 --> 00:32:03.410
And teach the small groups three times a week.
00:32:03.410 --> 00:32:06.769
So instead of teaching whole group instruction, you're gonna pull small groups.
00:32:06.769 --> 00:32:12.690
And what we knew was that teachers would complain and say, now I have to teach this four times.
00:32:12.690 --> 00:32:15.089
I'm never gonna have enough time to get through everything, right?
00:32:15.089 --> 00:32:16.529
But we were like, that's okay.
00:32:16.529 --> 00:32:18.690
We sometimes have to slow down to speed up.
00:32:18.690 --> 00:32:26.129
So for right now, just get used to transitions, get used to having students that you're not monitoring directly that are in small groups.
00:32:26.129 --> 00:32:33.730
Then we moved to, okay, now you look out and you say, huh, maybe I can give them something other than busy work when I'm working with students.
00:32:33.730 --> 00:32:38.930
So maybe I could actually relinquish some of that control and let them be doing some of the learning.
00:32:38.930 --> 00:32:43.569
Then the third step would be, okay, why am I teaching the same thing four times?
00:32:43.569 --> 00:32:50.769
Maybe I can be strategic and group kids and be teaching different things based on where they are in that learning progression.
00:32:50.769 --> 00:32:58.049
And then finally you end up getting to a more desired state where things are moving around and the teacher has relinquished that control.
00:32:58.049 --> 00:33:05.009
But it has to be done incrementally, or people will, the stress will get in the way of them being able to think clearly.
00:33:05.009 --> 00:33:06.769
And I hear this all the time in schools.
00:33:06.769 --> 00:33:08.210
I can't do one more thing.
00:33:08.210 --> 00:33:12.289
And I'm like, but what if that one thing isn't doing one more thing?
00:33:12.289 --> 00:33:14.529
It's improving what you're currently doing, you know.
00:33:14.529 --> 00:33:22.049
But they just their Harold and Bob are running the show and they're like, you're telling me one more thing, I've hit the panic button, I'm not listening anymore.
00:33:22.049 --> 00:33:29.649
So I think there's a real art for the principal to have clear planning, but then also really strategic engagement.
00:33:29.649 --> 00:33:36.450
How are we setting up collaboration so it's purposeful and it's meaningful and it's specific and I know what I'm doing in this group?
00:33:36.450 --> 00:33:39.490
And then, you know, the celebration piece is huge.
00:33:39.490 --> 00:33:44.529
So I talk about collective efficacy, building this sense of we can do this.
00:33:44.529 --> 00:33:47.889
And there's four ways that you build collective efficacy.
00:33:47.889 --> 00:33:49.809
So the first one is just do it.
00:33:49.809 --> 00:33:53.410
And, you know, you try it and you don't die, and you're like, oh, okay, I can do this.
00:33:53.410 --> 00:33:55.329
The second is watch somebody else do it.
00:33:55.329 --> 00:33:57.329
It's vicarious experience.
00:33:57.329 --> 00:33:59.329
The third is pure persuasion.
00:33:59.329 --> 00:34:00.690
This is how we do it.
00:34:00.690 --> 00:34:02.769
And the fourth is emotional arousal.
00:34:02.769 --> 00:34:05.649
It's that like, let's celebrate when we're doing these things.
00:34:05.649 --> 00:34:11.570
And so I worked with the principal, and I work with all the principals that I work with to really be strategic about building that.
00:34:11.570 --> 00:34:16.289
So, concrete example, we do what's called a hundred ways in a hundred days.
00:34:16.289 --> 00:34:20.050
And so we say, okay, here's our goal, clearly.
00:34:20.050 --> 00:34:23.170
This is what we want to see, and here, this is what we're doing.
00:34:23.170 --> 00:34:28.690
And each meeting we have, I assign a couple people, I give them an index card.
00:34:28.690 --> 00:34:30.849
And it's important you don't do this on a Google form.
00:34:30.849 --> 00:34:31.809
It needs to be paper.
00:34:31.809 --> 00:34:34.450
So on an index card, you write what you did.
00:34:34.450 --> 00:34:37.329
So say you're trying to do more student-centered activities.
00:34:37.329 --> 00:34:42.130
And I say, Well, I ran a simulation and here's kind of what we did two or three sentences.
00:34:42.130 --> 00:34:44.610
Here's what I'll do next time to make it better.
00:34:44.610 --> 00:34:49.570
So you're giving them permission not to be perfect, which is also important for your stress.
00:34:49.570 --> 00:34:51.170
And then the teachers share.
00:34:51.170 --> 00:34:55.010
So now you've got this, you know, vicarious experience of, oh, I could do that.
00:34:55.010 --> 00:34:56.210
Oh, that's a good idea.
00:34:56.210 --> 00:35:06.370
Then you take the cards and you post them in a lunchroom or copy area, and that becomes your sort of pure persuasion of like, this is how we do things here.
00:35:06.370 --> 00:35:14.769
So if I'm somebody who's dragging my feet, I might be making copies and look up and be like, oh my gosh, all my colleagues are doing some interesting stuff, and I'm not.
00:35:14.769 --> 00:35:21.730
And so you start to get at challenging that teacher identity that like I'm actually the one being left behind.
00:35:21.730 --> 00:35:23.970
So I want to speed up to catch up.
00:35:23.970 --> 00:35:31.090
And then, you know, you get to celebrate and the principal can go in and notice these things and and share them.
00:35:31.090 --> 00:35:35.890
And, you know, maybe in a week, you know, weekly newsletter, like, hey, I watched this, this, and this.
00:35:35.890 --> 00:35:36.450
It was awesome.
00:35:36.450 --> 00:35:37.730
Go talk to him about it.
00:35:37.730 --> 00:35:41.410
We also set up genius bars during professional development.
00:35:41.410 --> 00:35:47.570
So, you know, as you think about all the all the micro skills that are important, like small group, you have to be able to transition.
00:35:47.570 --> 00:35:51.730
You have to, I mean, there's just lots of different things to do, or even grading.
00:35:51.730 --> 00:35:56.290
If you're doing those um mastery boards, it's a little bit different on how you grade.
00:35:56.290 --> 00:36:01.090
So we would have teachers that the principal would say, Hey, I noticed that you're doing this really, really well.
00:36:01.090 --> 00:36:03.490
Will you be a genius at our next genius bar?
00:36:03.490 --> 00:36:11.010
And then teachers could go in and have some structured conversations with their colleagues and see samples in the context that we're working.
00:36:11.010 --> 00:36:17.330
So, so the principles have to really be a lot more strategic than just I'll support you.
00:36:17.810 --> 00:36:22.050
Lisa, this is so helpful and being so practical.
00:36:22.050 --> 00:36:35.090
So I I love that you've been able to take something that a lot of times people think is very theoretical and make it concrete all the way down to the very specific uh stepping stones as you just uh described them.
00:36:35.090 --> 00:36:47.650
So thank you so much for sharing uh this with us, sharing that case study, which is so beautiful and uh you know, allowing us to learn from just a little bit of your experience.
00:36:47.650 --> 00:36:53.730
For our uh listeners that want to follow and learn more about your work, what's the best way for them to do that?
00:36:54.050 --> 00:36:57.170
They can connect with me on LinkedIn, just look up my name.
00:36:57.170 --> 00:37:02.450
Uh, and then also the book Aspirations to Operations is available on Amazon.
00:37:02.450 --> 00:37:09.170
And then I have a second book called NeuroWell, which is really NeuroWell's kind of kid focused, teacher focused.
00:37:09.170 --> 00:37:14.210
And then Aspirations to Operations is okay, if you want a NeuroWell culture, you have to lead it.
00:37:14.210 --> 00:37:15.890
And so how do you lead it?
00:37:15.890 --> 00:37:25.730
And um, and it's I I hope that people who get the Aspirations to Operations book will truly take time to gain self-awareness to really be reflective.
00:37:25.730 --> 00:37:34.210
So at the end of each chapter, there's stop and think questions, and I suggest people keep a journal and then um it works through all those C's.
00:37:34.210 --> 00:37:40.930
It has templates, it has step-by-step instructions, it has examples of how this works in practice.
00:37:40.930 --> 00:37:54.450
And so as they read the book, they're literally building their implementation strategy, and it's all built off of the brand science and the human system so that it will stick when they when they work on the transformation.
00:37:54.769 --> 00:37:55.730
That is fantastic.
00:37:55.730 --> 00:37:56.290
I love that.
00:37:56.290 --> 00:38:00.690
Well, we'll be sure to put links to those in the in the show notes so that people can find those.
00:38:00.690 --> 00:38:09.970
And yeah, I really encourage anyone, everyone, to get both of these, uh, both of these books that obviously are very uh practical based on sound sound science.
00:38:10.370 --> 00:38:18.690
And I, you know, I do keynotes, I do workshops um just to help kind of kick this off and get the principles sort of you know on the same page.
00:38:18.690 --> 00:38:31.730
So if anybody's interested in talking with me about having me work with their school, I usually take about five or six schools in a year that I can really go deep and support the the principles and the transformation.
00:38:31.730 --> 00:38:39.570
Um and I found that that has a great impact versus just a one and done have somebody come in and do something.
00:38:39.570 --> 00:38:40.050
Sure.
00:38:40.210 --> 00:38:40.450
Yes.
00:38:40.450 --> 00:38:45.330
So right, I understand the keynote versus the the implementation guide.
00:38:45.330 --> 00:38:48.690
Uh yeah, is uh yeah, it makes a big difference for sure.
00:38:48.690 --> 00:38:55.170
Well, if you've found today's episode valuable, please share it with a colleague or an educator who would benefit.
00:38:55.170 --> 00:38:59.490
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00:38:59.490 --> 00:39:06.290
Until next time, keep leading with purpose and transforming schools into places where everyone thrives.
00:39:06.290 --> 00:39:13.570
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00:39:13.570 --> 00:39:17.090
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00:39:17.090 --> 00:39:22.769
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00:39:22.769 --> 00:39:26.450
Until next time, keep leading with courage and care.