The Evolution of the Built Environment

WEBVTT
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Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Transformational
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Architecture, Engineering, and Construction.
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And today we've got a fabulous guest. We have
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David Hutton here. David is a renowned developer
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who has been involved with some of the most iconic
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projects globally. The focus of today's discussion
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is on the built environment, how it's evolving,
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why technology is increasingly important and
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how developers need to change their strategy
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to win going forward. So again, welcome, David,
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and thank you for joining us. Thanks very much,
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Bill. I'm really looking forward to today's conversation.
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The first question I really want to get into
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is really this idea of what's the evolution of
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the built environment. Now, you've been in this
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industry for a long time, and you've seen an
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enormous amount of change already. But what are
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some of the key changes you see today or that
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are emerging that are a lot different than when
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you first entered the industry? Well, Bill, as
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you touched on, on one hand, I like to think
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I'm still young and learning, but I have been
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in the industry over 30 years. And there's been
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a whole range of evolution. And no doubt that
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will continue and we'll touch on some of those
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elements today. But positively and negatively,
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I think. If I start with the positives, the recognition
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now that the built environment is so important
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to us all. It's important to society, it's important
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to environment, it's important to the quality
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of life. So I think now there's a real recognition
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from government to the private sector through
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to individuals of the importance of the environment
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we create and we live in. So that's probably
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the first thing and I think a very positive one.
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If I went to the other extreme, our industry
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is still really fragged. We lack R &D. We're
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often focused much more on cost than value and
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cost. And we're really lagging many other industries
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in terms of the rate of advancement. So they're
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probably the two highlights. Just talking about
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the first one, I like that. And you can see that
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in some of the... Things you built. I mentioned
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Bangalore, Barangaroo in Sydney. That development
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is, it's amazing how vibrant it is. It's vibrant
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during the day when people come to work. It's
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vibrant on the weekends when families are there.
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Is that what you're really talking about is building
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something that is consumable by all kinds of
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people at all times and can change to suit? different
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needs yeah absolutely bill and i think if you
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step right back to the fundamentals real estate
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You could argue it's created by people, but it's
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really for people. And real estate can become
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a mechanism to be able to create greater community
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integration. And whether it's workplace, whether
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we were talking about infrastructure, like the
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quality of experience one may have in an airport,
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the changing role of workplace being focused
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around people and wellbeing, and on and on through
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pretty much every asset class. I think there's
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a real understanding now that the quality of
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experience people have is really the fundamental
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that underpins real estate. So the public realm,
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the importance of the space between buildings,
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mixed use, and there's so many elements and obviously
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the integration to transport as well. Yeah, you
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know, all these things are coming together when
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they used to be separate. issues, right? It really
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is more exciting than ever to be a developer.
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So where are the greatest opportunities in development
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these days? And I'd like you to think about geographical,
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the type of buildings, like I know residential
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versus industrial versus even data centers is
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a huge development opportunity. So how does a
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developer need to think to be successful in getting
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access to these opportunities and making money
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at it? That's a pretty big question. And I'll
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touch on a few points. And I'm still learning
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about those as well. But I think first of all,
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you've got to start with the end user and really
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understand that. So real estate. If you think
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about the value of real estate, it's really a
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derivative of what it's used for. So there isn't
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essentially an inherent value of real estate.
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If you build a building, it doesn't mean the
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value relates to the cost. The value actually
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comes out of the use of that real estate. So
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I think always starting with the end user is
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paramount. We've spoken about the importance
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of users' experience and the contribution to
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the city, but... from my perspective, always
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thinking about the outcomes, how the real estate
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will be used ongoing. And that fundamentally
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comes back to people. So that's the first paramount.
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And I think that's equally applicable across
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all sectors. You touched on how the industry
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is changing. If you think about residential,
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there's now many forms of residential. So the
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age community around the world is changing dramatically.
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Many more... Many more cities are having older
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demographics. So what does that mean for how
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those people live? You touched on technology.
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There's an explosion in data centers and technology.
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And again, that really requires the real estate
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industry to be able to respond and create that
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infrastructure. So big opportunities there. There's
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a huge weight of capital wanting to invest in
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assets. And I think it's important for all of
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us to understand real estate. can't just be thought
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about in isolation. It's a combination of capital.
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It's a combination of infrastructure. It's a
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combination of a whole array of disciplines coming
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together to create those outcomes. And on a personal
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level, I think that's one of the areas that makes
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real estate so exciting. And it's the ability
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to bring together that array of disciplines and
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expertise to create those outcomes. And in one
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sense, the ability to bring those together, to
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be able to understand an outcome, bring the disciplines,
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bring the capital, bring the community, the government,
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the authorities, utilities, other stakeholders,
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to be able to align them around a common vision.
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is the biggest opportunity in real estate. And
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it's those that can do that and have the IQ and
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the EQ to do that are the ones that will really
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be successful into the future. Do you think the
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governments have changed in some of these places
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to sort of foster this idea of creating great
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places? Are they asking for it? Are they enabling
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it? Are you seeing that they want to drive developers
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to... making their cities greater. Yeah, I am.
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And I think generally around the world, in many,
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many key cities, that's certainly the case. And
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I think cities are realizing they're competing
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with each other. They're competing for talent.
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They're competing for population. They're focused
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on the quality of their environment, the quality
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of the public realm, and they're also focused
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on their economies. So real estate is such a
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fundamental part of cities. a way for cities
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to really brand themselves, position themselves,
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and the duty of care they obviously have to their
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citizens. So I'd say an overwhelming yes. That
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doesn't necessarily make it always easy. Many
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governments, many cities are lacking capital.
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So again, they require the private sector and
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the real estate industry to be able to not only
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come up with a physical solution, but to be able
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to come up with a capital and investment solution
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that goes with that. Yeah, I have to say, you
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know, having lived in Sydney for five years and
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traveled a lot to Singapore. I think these are
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two really beautiful cities where the government
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and the private sector have worked together to
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create some really iconic places, places people
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want to be. So there just seems to be an opportunity
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when government comes together with private developers
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to create these new places. So what are the greatest
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challenges facing developers? Because When you're
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doing everything you said, it's a much more complex
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environment and it requires a lot of more planning
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and quite honestly, investment for sustainability,
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safety, quality, more affordability. And so how,
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you know, what are some of the key challenges
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that are being faced and how are developers going
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to have to respond? to those challenges? Yeah,
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so I think there's a range of those. And fundamentally,
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one of the big challenges with the real estate
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industry is productivity. And if you go back
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and reflect on how long it takes to build a building,
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over my career, it still takes the same duration
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or even longer. And you think about that in the
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context of, say, technology overall. When I started
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my career, mobile phones were only just coming
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in. Then we went to the internet, obviously.
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Then we've been through smart devices. We're
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now into the era of AI. And if you look at the
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real estate industry, it still takes us pretty
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much the same time to build a building. So something
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there isn't right. And I think there's a big
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opportunity. No many... Many in our industry
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would answer this question and talk about planning.
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And planning now in many of the Western cities,
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the larger democracies, you find many different
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interest groups and challenges of being able
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to get alignment on planning. And obviously,
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real estate and change and renewal and regeneration
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comes with disruption factors. So people are
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always concerned about how will this change or
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a new development or a new building or a new
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district. impact them. So it often takes many
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years to get through the planning system. So
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inherently to me, that really requires the ability
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of the industry to paint a very positive future,
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to be able to be genuinely focused on the environment,
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the social and the economic benefits that come
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out of renewal. and to be able to articulate
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that and communicate it really well. So that's
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one of the biggest challenges of the industry,
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and it'll be one of the biggest factors of those
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that are successful and those that aren't successful.
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I think the other rule we've touched on is really
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capital. You've got to bring capital and infrastructure
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and real estate together. Those things are all
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converging. You know, I came to work this morning.
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I came to work on the metro. I come into the
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building. I use the smart app to come into the
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building and so on. But integrating technology,
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integrating the built form, integrating the quality
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of the public realm and human experience is fundamental
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to the future of real estate. And as an industry,
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I think we need to continue to get better at
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that. And I think we need to be able to communicate
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that and ensure we can bring. the various stakeholders
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with us. There's an old adage that you can have
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speed, quality, or cost, but you can't have all
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three. Isn't that the challenge that you want
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sustainability, safety, affordable housing? What
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are some of the things that have to be done?
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Because the price of land isn't getting any cheaper.
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So it's only the process itself and the product
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and the people who pull it together. that you
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somehow have to bend the curves. Is that true?
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Yeah, I think it is. And I don't come from a
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perspective, one must always compromise things
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to get an outcome. I don't believe in that. I
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think you can get... great alignment. I think
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you can get collective, say, terrific economic
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outcomes and still deliver great environmental
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and social outcomes. And I think the maturity
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of the market now, the focus of government and
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authorities is ensuring we deliver collective
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positive outcomes. So I think that can be done.
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But a lot of it comes back to how we work, the
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tools we can utilize, how we work across multiple
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disciplines. And that's where I think the industry
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needs to keep evolving. And there's pockets that
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have really changed. Like if you think about,
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I was recently assisting a friend buy a residential
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property in London. And I'm sitting here in Singapore.
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So I'm able to go online. I'm able to search.
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All across the city, I'm able to look at the
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streets. I'm able to look at the layouts. I'm
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able to look at the history of transactions.
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So elements of real estate, say buying a residential
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condominium or apartment, are completely transformed
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in the last 10 years. So they're utilizing that
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technology. Focus on other elements in the industry,
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I'd say we're still a laggard. We're still a
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laggard in many of the logistics. We've still
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got a way to go how we integrate design. We've
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got challenges and opportunities in how we communicate
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outcomes. So I think how we use technology and
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the tools we use have lagged some elements of
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our industry. And I think there's big opportunities
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in that. as we start to progress, and as the
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tools available to the industry fundamentally
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change. Well, you know, I think that that's right.
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I see other industries have embraced technology
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to allow them to deal with those challenges of
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time, cost, and quality. And so, you know, we've
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seen this in the manufacturing industries. We've
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seen this in the financial services industries.
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A lot of industries have made the change, yet
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our industry... seems to be almost allergic to
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the use of technology out there. Do you think
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that's going to change? Do you think the culture
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is up for embracing and adopting technology?
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I think we'll all be forced to do it, Bill. I
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touched on before about some of the challenges
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around productivity. There was a study done a
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number of years ago by McKinsey that really showed
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the real estate productivity over the last 20
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years has increased by less than 1%. against
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a backdrop of global GDP approaching 3 % and
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against manufacturing of 4 % or 5 % and the technology
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sector increasing productivity per year between
00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:14.820
5 % and 10%. So the industry is lagging and the
00:14:14.820 --> 00:14:18.220
statistics all prove that. And there's pressures
00:14:18.220 --> 00:14:21.500
coming from other areas. If you look at the pressure
00:14:21.500 --> 00:14:25.120
on, say, affordable housing now. How are we as
00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:29.059
a society able to produce housing outcomes that
00:14:29.059 --> 00:14:32.909
are far more economic and affordable? I see there's
00:14:32.909 --> 00:14:35.269
focus from government, there's focus from the
00:14:35.269 --> 00:14:37.490
private sector, there's certainly focus from
00:14:37.490 --> 00:14:40.230
the capital markets. There's a lot of money that
00:14:40.230 --> 00:14:43.929
wants to invest in productive assets. Real estate,
00:14:44.009 --> 00:14:46.950
globally real estate has around $400 trillion
00:14:46.950 --> 00:14:49.669
invested in real estate. The majority of that's
00:14:49.669 --> 00:14:53.809
residential, but there's very large capital that
00:14:53.809 --> 00:14:55.970
wants or capital amounts that want to come into
00:14:55.970 --> 00:14:57.970
real estate. So we need to be able to give them.
00:14:58.269 --> 00:15:01.389
productive returns. So what I'm most excited
00:15:01.389 --> 00:15:03.850
about now is I think the industry's recognizing
00:15:03.850 --> 00:15:07.269
that and starting to focus on what are the tools
00:15:07.269 --> 00:15:10.149
we can create? What are the changes in the way
00:15:10.149 --> 00:15:13.850
of working? And how do we adopt some of the technologies
00:15:13.850 --> 00:15:16.429
in other areas and bring them into the real estate
00:15:16.429 --> 00:15:19.049
sector and get the benefit of them? So I think
00:15:19.049 --> 00:15:21.970
that's a big opportunity for the sector. Yeah,
00:15:21.990 --> 00:15:25.029
it does feel like we're reaching the blockbuster
00:15:25.029 --> 00:15:28.960
Netflix moment. in property where if you stick
00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:31.039
with the old way of doing things no matter how
00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:34.019
profitable it may have been you're going to miss
00:15:34.019 --> 00:15:37.200
the opportunity because what's happening in these
00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:40.059
cities is it's going to move in that direction
00:15:40.059 --> 00:15:43.059
and it sounds like only those who really can
00:15:43.059 --> 00:15:46.039
figure out how to deliver it all are really going
00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:49.379
to reap the rewards here like netflix did is
00:15:49.379 --> 00:15:52.100
that kind of how you see it yeah i do Albeit,
00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:54.740
I think it'll be a little more of an evolution
00:15:54.740 --> 00:15:58.340
than a one -off single change or a one -off single
00:15:58.340 --> 00:16:02.179
organization. So real estate requires so many
00:16:02.179 --> 00:16:05.679
disciplines to come together. It's not a single
00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:08.720
product you can simply replicate and wind out.
00:16:08.980 --> 00:16:11.460
The location, there's not really two locations
00:16:11.460 --> 00:16:13.720
in the world that are exactly the same. You could
00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:16.019
argue there's not really two locations in a city
00:16:16.019 --> 00:16:18.940
that are identical. So we need in real estate,
00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:21.200
we need to be sensitive to the environment. We
00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:23.139
need to be sensitive to the different users.
00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:25.840
And therefore, there'll always be an element
00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:29.879
of customization in real estate. Creating buildings,
00:16:30.379 --> 00:16:32.960
creating public realm, creating environment that's
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:36.539
authentic and suits its users and suits its context.
00:16:36.759 --> 00:16:40.779
So that's different, say, to if I was just manufacturing
00:16:40.779 --> 00:16:44.299
a consumer good. But inherently where technology
00:16:44.299 --> 00:16:47.879
is going now is it's giving us much more capacity
00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:51.659
for mass customization. And real estate has many
00:16:51.659 --> 00:16:54.259
variables. And again, technology can cope with
00:16:54.259 --> 00:16:57.049
that. So it has the capacity for that. So I think
00:16:57.049 --> 00:16:59.649
inherently it'll be different to the Netflix
00:16:59.649 --> 00:17:02.950
moments, but I think the change and the opportunity
00:17:02.950 --> 00:17:07.769
is huge in scale. And I think now you're starting
00:17:07.769 --> 00:17:10.910
to see many organizations really starting to
00:17:10.910 --> 00:17:14.670
explore how can technology be used much better
00:17:14.670 --> 00:17:17.269
in real estate. And that's not only in design
00:17:17.269 --> 00:17:20.089
and creation and logistics, but it also relates
00:17:20.089 --> 00:17:22.710
to how real estate and ability environments managed
00:17:22.710 --> 00:17:25.839
longer term. And I think that's as important
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:29.819
as the creation of real estate. So maybe it wasn't
00:17:29.819 --> 00:17:33.000
that our industry was allergic to technology.
00:17:33.259 --> 00:17:36.460
It's that the technology advances had not yet
00:17:36.460 --> 00:17:39.079
caught up to the problem. Because if I think
00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:42.319
about it, we still live in a world where creativity
00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:45.779
is necessary. There is no one size fits all for
00:17:45.779 --> 00:17:48.839
every location. Even the plot of land you're
00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:50.759
building is going to be different. So trying
00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:54.140
to fit something there that does all that. That
00:17:54.140 --> 00:17:58.180
still has to be a group of really high IQ, EQ
00:17:58.180 --> 00:18:01.140
people who are working together to get that done.
00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:03.839
So we've got all these people involved. So we
00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:06.539
need great collaboration technology. We're finally
00:18:06.539 --> 00:18:09.619
getting to that. We've got to have a way to be
00:18:09.619 --> 00:18:13.519
able to work together on design and be able to
00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:16.640
share designs. We've got to have the ability
00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:20.740
for the software to look at that design and start
00:18:20.740 --> 00:18:24.730
to. make sure that it's actually buildable. And
00:18:24.730 --> 00:18:26.549
then we've got to get to the point where we can
00:18:26.549 --> 00:18:29.390
actually buy the products that are against the
00:18:29.390 --> 00:18:31.910
design so we don't design something that you
00:18:31.910 --> 00:18:35.230
can't build. It sounds like it's not that we're
00:18:35.230 --> 00:18:38.089
allergic, that the technology wasn't there. So
00:18:38.089 --> 00:18:41.170
do you kind of feel that that's true, number
00:18:41.170 --> 00:18:44.009
one? And number two is... Do you believe those
00:18:44.009 --> 00:18:47.869
are the technologies that are necessary? I think
00:18:47.869 --> 00:18:51.009
that's right, albeit I think the industry also
00:18:51.009 --> 00:18:54.369
needs to accept responsibility and the need for
00:18:54.369 --> 00:18:58.009
change. So if you're sitting in the technology
00:18:58.009 --> 00:18:59.950
world, you're probably looking at the real estate
00:18:59.950 --> 00:19:02.470
industry and sort of thinking how backward they
00:19:02.470 --> 00:19:05.230
are. Likewise, if you're sitting in the real
00:19:05.230 --> 00:19:07.049
estate industry, I don't think we can point to
00:19:07.049 --> 00:19:11.069
technology and say you haven't yet created sophisticated
00:19:11.069 --> 00:19:14.789
enough tools. I think, again, it will come down
00:19:14.789 --> 00:19:18.250
to great collaboration and understanding between
00:19:18.250 --> 00:19:21.869
those that are very good at technology and those
00:19:21.869 --> 00:19:24.869
that are focused on real estate outcomes and
00:19:24.869 --> 00:19:27.869
how those groups work together. As we've both
00:19:27.869 --> 00:19:29.990
mentioned a few times, it's a combination of
00:19:29.990 --> 00:19:33.660
IQ and EQ. because the fact that real estate
00:19:33.660 --> 00:19:36.539
needs to combine so many different disciplines
00:19:36.539 --> 00:19:40.000
and it's relying on external stakeholders. It
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.759
must engage with communities. It must engage
00:19:42.759 --> 00:19:45.940
with city authorities. It must engage with capital.
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:49.539
It must engage with end users. And one of the
00:19:49.539 --> 00:19:52.680
analogies I often draw, it's a little bit like
00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:54.839
solving a Rubik's cube. You can't just solve
00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:57.759
one face. You can't simply say, well, we've solved
00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:01.119
real estate for... the government or the authority
00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:04.299
requirements. That might be one side of the Rubik's
00:20:04.299 --> 00:20:06.460
cube, but you need to solve it for capital. You
00:20:06.460 --> 00:20:08.660
need to solve it for users. You need to solve
00:20:08.660 --> 00:20:12.380
it for its specific location and so on. So I
00:20:12.380 --> 00:20:14.819
think it's a combination of the tools getting
00:20:14.819 --> 00:20:17.000
better. And I think it's a combination of the
00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:20.059
industry changing and adapting and being far
00:20:20.059 --> 00:20:22.940
more progressive. If I could add one thing to
00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:26.200
that bill as well, I think it's the... Smarter
00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:29.920
economic models that can better align value capture
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.079
and cost. One of the big challenges for the industry,
00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:36.319
it spends very little money on R &D. And often
00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:39.380
parts of the industry would say, if we create
00:20:39.380 --> 00:20:42.140
a better solution, we don't actually benefit
00:20:42.140 --> 00:20:44.660
from any value from that. Holistically, there
00:20:44.660 --> 00:20:47.180
may be value created, but, and I'll give you
00:20:47.180 --> 00:20:49.900
a really simple example. If I'm paid a percentage
00:20:49.900 --> 00:20:53.000
of cost and I come up with a great idea to reduce
00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:56.420
cost, but I'm still paid. the same nominal percentage
00:20:56.420 --> 00:20:59.500
of a lower number, there's no benefit in me reducing
00:20:59.500 --> 00:21:03.619
costs. So many parts of our industry, how we
00:21:03.619 --> 00:21:07.079
procure, how we structure and encourage expertise
00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:11.400
to add value also needs to be reflected on and
00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:13.960
perhaps restructured or rethought. Yeah, I think
00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:15.839
the developers are going to have to lead the
00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:18.079
way because they're the ones actually who can
00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:20.720
make all the decisions. When you look at the
00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:23.559
technology, if I take a different industry, I
00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:26.230
look at... the movie industry. And in the movie
00:21:26.230 --> 00:21:29.349
industry, that's a creative world. And what we're
00:21:29.349 --> 00:21:32.650
seeing, and we see a battle for this, is that
00:21:32.650 --> 00:21:36.049
I'm seeing some Gen AI startups, they're creating
00:21:36.049 --> 00:21:39.549
movies that are phenomenal in their quality,
00:21:39.789 --> 00:21:43.390
the storylines. Yet you have a handful of people
00:21:43.390 --> 00:21:46.509
in the studio working on this. And that's going
00:21:46.509 --> 00:21:49.849
to create a conflict in that industry with actors
00:21:49.849 --> 00:21:54.230
and script writers. We already see that in some
00:21:54.230 --> 00:21:56.970
of the unionization efforts that are going on.
00:21:57.089 --> 00:21:59.089
Some people I've heard would just say, well,
00:21:59.109 --> 00:22:01.450
the building's just like that. It's just like
00:22:01.450 --> 00:22:03.670
a movie. If you can create a movie, you can create
00:22:03.670 --> 00:22:06.710
a building fully. Do you think that's true? Obviously,
00:22:06.990 --> 00:22:09.710
I'm not an expert on the movie industry, but
00:22:09.710 --> 00:22:13.359
I really, I feel... The way forward is giving
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:16.920
the professions better tools. I think when I
00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:19.619
was a number of years ago when I started to have
00:22:19.619 --> 00:22:21.940
discussions around technology and real estate,
00:22:22.099 --> 00:22:25.579
a lot of the thought pattern then was we can
00:22:25.579 --> 00:22:28.480
replace all the architects. We can completely
00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:31.920
replace all the engineers. We can fully automate
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:35.200
from sort of cradle to grave. We can automate
00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:38.619
the whole process. And I genuinely believe now.
00:22:39.130 --> 00:22:42.269
The smart technology players, the progressive
00:22:42.269 --> 00:22:45.849
real estate developers and industry aren't seeing
00:22:45.849 --> 00:22:48.910
it as we change from how we're doing things today
00:22:48.910 --> 00:22:51.609
to a completely new world. But they're starting
00:22:51.609 --> 00:22:54.849
to see there's tools that if you're a great designer,
00:22:55.150 --> 00:22:57.809
there's tools that can make you far more productive
00:22:57.809 --> 00:23:00.849
and can ultimately result in far better designs
00:23:00.849 --> 00:23:03.589
and outcomes. And I think there's the recognition.
00:23:04.430 --> 00:23:07.309
that it's not completely one extreme or the other
00:23:07.309 --> 00:23:11.009
in real estate. And if you look at design, again,
00:23:11.410 --> 00:23:13.769
one of the examples I often give to my colleagues
00:23:13.769 --> 00:23:17.150
is when you're developing a new building or proposing
00:23:17.150 --> 00:23:19.670
a new building or a new district, you have to
00:23:19.670 --> 00:23:22.190
bring the stakeholders with you. So when you
00:23:22.190 --> 00:23:24.789
go and present to a government planning committee
00:23:24.789 --> 00:23:28.289
or a community, they're really looking to have
00:23:28.289 --> 00:23:32.089
trust and confidence in who is doing this design
00:23:32.089 --> 00:23:34.890
and will it be a great design. And it's very
00:23:34.890 --> 00:23:37.130
difficult if you simply go along and say, well,
00:23:37.210 --> 00:23:40.029
technology is going to do the design alone. People
00:23:40.029 --> 00:23:42.329
still grapple with, well, what does that really
00:23:42.329 --> 00:23:44.569
mean and what will the outcome be? So they're
00:23:44.569 --> 00:23:47.230
still looking for... designers that have great
00:23:47.230 --> 00:23:50.009
reputations and great brands and great track
00:23:50.009 --> 00:23:53.750
records so to me the best designers in the world
00:23:53.750 --> 00:23:56.329
will still have those elements of creativity
00:23:56.329 --> 00:23:59.049
but they'll be using tools that are far more
00:23:59.049 --> 00:24:01.690
advanced and they'll connect across the other
00:24:01.690 --> 00:24:04.450
disciplines far far better and they'll make the
00:24:04.450 --> 00:24:07.309
process far more efficient more effective more
00:24:07.309 --> 00:24:10.390
accurate And again, one example of that, if you
00:24:10.390 --> 00:24:12.190
look at building sites around the world, nearly
00:24:12.190 --> 00:24:16.009
30 % of what goes onto a site is waste or comes
00:24:16.009 --> 00:24:18.910
out as waste. So technology should be able to
00:24:18.910 --> 00:24:22.029
eliminate the vast majority of that. The accuracy
00:24:22.029 --> 00:24:26.339
in dimensions, in measurements, avoiding... conflicts,
00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:29.180
it should be much, much, lead to much, much better
00:24:29.180 --> 00:24:31.380
results. So I think there's huge opportunity.
00:24:31.700 --> 00:24:34.599
I don't believe individuals will disappear out
00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:37.299
of the industry, but I think the tools we can
00:24:37.299 --> 00:24:39.859
use can make us far, far better and far more
00:24:39.859 --> 00:24:42.380
effective. You know, I asked you that question
00:24:42.380 --> 00:24:44.960
a bit unfairly on purpose because there is a
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:47.200
sort of discussion going on around the world
00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:50.460
about Gen AI being able to do everything. Movies
00:24:50.460 --> 00:24:52.539
only deal with virtual world, whatever they...
00:24:52.750 --> 00:24:56.569
day design doesn't have to be a physical construct
00:24:56.569 --> 00:24:59.150
at the end of the day our industry has to do
00:24:59.150 --> 00:25:02.230
is to do a digital concept and then it actually
00:25:02.230 --> 00:25:04.869
has to put together a physical concept and it
00:25:04.869 --> 00:25:08.250
has to have all those attributes of safety and
00:25:08.250 --> 00:25:11.089
other things that a movie doesn't have so i think
00:25:11.089 --> 00:25:13.509
it's a false equivalence that people often have
00:25:13.509 --> 00:25:16.890
because we still need people to drive the process
00:25:16.890 --> 00:25:19.869
we need to make sure that what is being done
00:25:19.869 --> 00:25:22.849
is being driven by engineers who are qualifying
00:25:22.849 --> 00:25:26.210
those designs that they can be built, by suppliers
00:25:26.210 --> 00:25:28.349
of products that they can offer those products,
00:25:28.430 --> 00:25:32.109
by architects who are bringing the EQ while they're
00:25:32.109 --> 00:25:34.309
bringing the IQ. And I think it gets to what
00:25:34.309 --> 00:25:36.990
you said. There's so much opportunity just in
00:25:36.990 --> 00:25:40.109
waste. There's so much opportunity in helping
00:25:40.109 --> 00:25:43.329
give greater certainty to the design to make
00:25:43.329 --> 00:25:46.809
things go faster that we don't need to think.
00:25:47.309 --> 00:25:49.509
We're going to replace everybody. In fact, that's
00:25:49.509 --> 00:25:51.730
not the goal. The goal is to make everybody work
00:25:51.730 --> 00:25:53.910
together better. And that's why I love this industry
00:25:53.910 --> 00:25:56.930
where we can clearly see that this is a place
00:25:56.930 --> 00:25:59.829
where people have to work together and technology
00:25:59.829 --> 00:26:02.950
has to support them. But Gen AI does have a place
00:26:02.950 --> 00:26:06.589
in making that happen, as you really pointed
00:26:06.589 --> 00:26:09.250
out. So I think it's important for the listeners
00:26:09.250 --> 00:26:11.789
to think that through. This is not a case where
00:26:11.789 --> 00:26:13.839
in five years we're getting rid of it. of everyone
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:16.579
that may happen in other industries call centers
00:26:16.579 --> 00:26:19.599
for example but i don't see it happening here
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:22.779
what other industries do you look at that have
00:26:22.779 --> 00:26:24.759
done automation that you look at and go you know
00:26:24.759 --> 00:26:27.259
there we can probably learn something from how
00:26:27.259 --> 00:26:30.099
those industries do it. Yeah, I think there's
00:26:30.099 --> 00:26:33.160
an array of learnings to be brought into the
00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:35.839
industry. As I said, real estate's really a combination
00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:39.240
of many different things. So I touched on earlier
00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:42.220
how automation can help transactions. And real
00:26:42.220 --> 00:26:45.079
estate is always involved in sales, in leasing,
00:26:45.220 --> 00:26:48.799
in land acquisition, in procurement. So they're
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:51.700
an example of technology can be used on all those
00:26:51.700 --> 00:26:55.589
things to automate. When we talk about the management
00:26:55.589 --> 00:26:58.230
of things and getting data back and looking at
00:26:58.230 --> 00:27:01.529
how we refine, whether it's mechanical systems
00:27:01.529 --> 00:27:04.970
or customer service elements, again, many other
00:27:04.970 --> 00:27:07.430
industries do that. The hospitality industry,
00:27:07.710 --> 00:27:10.230
for example, that could be brought across other
00:27:10.230 --> 00:27:13.809
sectors in real estate. So I think there's many
00:27:13.809 --> 00:27:17.630
areas, manufacturing, clearly. in thinking about
00:27:17.630 --> 00:27:20.130
how the real estate industry procures and how
00:27:20.130 --> 00:27:22.589
it designs and how it gets better feedback from
00:27:22.589 --> 00:27:25.529
manufacturing. There's many, many lessons. And
00:27:25.529 --> 00:27:27.910
even the service industries, the direct service
00:27:27.910 --> 00:27:30.130
industries, because ultimately real estate is
00:27:30.130 --> 00:27:32.829
about people. So again, we've got to recognize
00:27:32.829 --> 00:27:35.410
it's not really about the buildings. It's not
00:27:35.410 --> 00:27:38.509
really about the physical hardware. It's about
00:27:38.509 --> 00:27:40.490
the quality of experience people have in it.
00:27:40.609 --> 00:27:43.910
So in addition to talking about placemaking,
00:27:43.930 --> 00:27:46.440
the importance of public realm, More and more
00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:49.460
now, the focus is going on the curation of those
00:27:49.460 --> 00:27:51.599
spaces. How are they programmed? How are they
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:54.240
brought to life? How do people enjoy them and
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:57.559
interface with the public realm, with the amenity,
00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:00.519
with the offerings going forward? So again, There's
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:03.160
areas in technology around customer service and
00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:05.220
different things that the industry can adopt
00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:08.799
and use more of. So I think it's really up to
00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:10.720
the industry. How does it pull those things together?
00:28:10.940 --> 00:28:14.000
How does it focus on them? And then the interface
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:17.200
between all those different areas that ultimately
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:19.380
make, you know, they make great buildings, they
00:28:19.380 --> 00:28:21.400
make great districts, they make great cities,
00:28:21.500 --> 00:28:24.460
is what it's about and where the future is. And
00:28:24.460 --> 00:28:27.359
I think technology has a... really big role to
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:29.619
play in that. I'd be remiss, David, if I didn't
00:28:29.619 --> 00:28:32.339
point out some of the companies that you and
00:28:32.339 --> 00:28:36.200
I both love who share our view on what the world's
00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:38.539
got to look like and how development is going
00:28:38.539 --> 00:28:41.819
to change. And I know we both were deeply involved
00:28:41.819 --> 00:28:45.839
with the creation of Podium .io, which we spun
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:48.799
out of LendLease. And that was quite a journey
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:51.640
and very interesting, but that's addressing a
00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:54.160
lot of these challenges that we've seen. I'd
00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:56.880
also call out Autodesk. some of the work they're
00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:00.539
doing which is is driving this direction so there
00:29:00.539 --> 00:29:02.920
are some great companies that are starting to
00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:06.180
work on this and i'd ask the listeners to check
00:29:06.180 --> 00:29:10.220
them out any uh podcasts or books that influence
00:29:10.220 --> 00:29:13.039
you a lot that you might share with our readers
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:15.180
where they can learn a little more or maybe get
00:29:15.180 --> 00:29:18.640
a little more inspired yeah i i often go to three
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:21.859
sources for that bill because real estate The
00:29:21.859 --> 00:29:24.359
first one is real estate requires capital. So
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:27.480
I always like to listen to what the big investors
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:30.579
are thinking. I won't name names, but there's
00:29:30.579 --> 00:29:33.220
obviously a number of very big sovereign funds.
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.579
There's a number of very big global asset managers.
00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:40.660
So I always line up. to listen to their results,
00:29:40.859 --> 00:29:43.619
their thoughts and sector, where they see different
00:29:43.619 --> 00:29:47.039
sectors going and where they want to place capital.
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:50.980
But that's one source because without capital,
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:54.079
it's very hard to do things. So I treat that
00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:57.460
stakeholder really importantly and I always listen
00:29:57.460 --> 00:30:00.589
to where capital is. going. The second area I
00:30:00.589 --> 00:30:04.109
like to listen to and engage with is really on
00:30:04.109 --> 00:30:06.869
the consumer side, because ultimately real estate
00:30:06.869 --> 00:30:10.910
is about people. And if you start to look at
00:30:10.910 --> 00:30:13.730
the individual sectors in real estate, say workplace,
00:30:14.029 --> 00:30:16.829
workplace completely changed now. It is about
00:30:16.829 --> 00:30:18.470
the quality of environment. People don't need
00:30:18.470 --> 00:30:20.910
to come to the offices, we all know. So really
00:30:20.910 --> 00:30:25.180
understanding what... What brings people together?
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:29.220
What is the role of the workplace? And that applies
00:30:29.220 --> 00:30:32.039
equally to residential and the other sectors.
00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:35.339
What's really driving them at a user level? And
00:30:35.339 --> 00:30:38.059
then the third area I'd like to spend time listening
00:30:38.059 --> 00:30:40.779
to and being here in Singapore where the URA,
00:30:40.940 --> 00:30:43.440
the Government Redevelopment Agency and Planning
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:46.500
Agency, I love to listen to where they are because
00:30:46.500 --> 00:30:48.700
progressive governments, whether they're at a
00:30:48.700 --> 00:30:51.720
city level, state level or a national level,
00:30:51.859 --> 00:30:54.819
are really focused. on what are their agendas.
00:30:54.980 --> 00:30:57.519
And again, as a developer, you're really trying
00:30:57.519 --> 00:30:59.980
to create solutions that work for government,
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.440
that work for end users and work for capital.
00:31:02.579 --> 00:31:05.079
So I spend time trying to understand all three.
00:31:05.559 --> 00:31:08.759
And I use my time now on the metro and different
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:11.380
things on the way to work to be able to do that
00:31:11.380 --> 00:31:14.279
and really try and understand where are the stakeholders.
00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:16.819
And therefore, how as a developer, as a real
00:31:16.819 --> 00:31:19.420
estate provider, do you create solutions that
00:31:19.420 --> 00:31:22.059
play to those multiple stakeholders? That's great
00:31:22.059 --> 00:31:23.900
advice, actually. I like the way you structured
00:31:23.900 --> 00:31:27.180
that. Second to last question. So can you name
00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:29.140
your two favorite projects you've ever done?
00:31:29.299 --> 00:31:30.680
I know you've been involved with a lot of them.
00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:33.200
Tell me two of your favorite projects. Well,
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:36.140
you touched on Barangaroo earlier. It's obviously
00:31:36.140 --> 00:31:40.180
a very large, very large project undertaken by
00:31:40.180 --> 00:31:42.480
Lendlease. And the first thing I would say for
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:44.400
all of us that are involved in big projects,
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:46.460
it's always a team effort. It's a team effort
00:31:46.460 --> 00:31:49.380
from government stakeholders, a whole array of
00:31:49.380 --> 00:31:53.619
people. But what is most important to me and
00:31:53.619 --> 00:31:56.240
stands out on that project the most is the quality
00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:59.980
of outcome. I was on the Parramatta River west
00:31:59.980 --> 00:32:02.680
of Sydney on the River Cat, the boat that goes
00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:05.160
up the river from the city, and I was coming
00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:09.640
back on a Saturday afternoon last year and hearing
00:32:09.640 --> 00:32:13.440
people as they got onto the boat talking about
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:16.859
the evening they were going to have at Barangaroo.
00:32:17.369 --> 00:32:19.750
So they were coming into the city for events,
00:32:19.890 --> 00:32:22.509
for dinners and so on. But various groups were
00:32:22.509 --> 00:32:25.309
talking about it with a real sense of excitement
00:32:25.309 --> 00:32:29.289
as a place to go to. And to me, ultimately, when
00:32:29.289 --> 00:32:34.250
you get feedback that people love... the destination.
00:32:34.269 --> 00:32:36.450
They love the place. They love the experience.
00:32:36.569 --> 00:32:39.549
I think ultimately that's what real estate is
00:32:39.549 --> 00:32:42.269
all about and has a big role to contribute to.
00:32:42.410 --> 00:32:45.109
So that one's always special to me. And then
00:32:45.109 --> 00:32:52.430
there's probably other projects. And again, I
00:32:52.430 --> 00:32:55.150
won't particularly name one, but it's in the
00:32:55.150 --> 00:32:58.329
renewal area. and where there's an opportunity
00:32:58.329 --> 00:33:01.569
to do a big transformation. So I've been involved
00:33:01.569 --> 00:33:04.529
in a number of projects in London where they
00:33:04.529 --> 00:33:07.410
took areas of the city that were disused and
00:33:07.410 --> 00:33:10.130
run down with a lot of social problems and seeing
00:33:10.130 --> 00:33:13.250
that transformation. And again, always disruptive,
00:33:13.589 --> 00:33:17.779
always with complications that... that relate
00:33:17.779 --> 00:33:20.640
to concerns around displacement and so on. But
00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:22.980
seeing the transformation, improvement in public
00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:25.519
realm, improvement in social outcomes, improvement
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:28.579
in the environment is incredibly rewarding to
00:33:28.579 --> 00:33:32.299
be able to be part of a positive legacy for the
00:33:32.299 --> 00:33:36.859
future. So I think real estate... provides such
00:33:36.859 --> 00:33:40.460
great opportunities to make a much broader contribution.
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:42.920
And I think that's what makes the industry so
00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:46.099
exciting. That's great. Any final words of inspiration
00:33:46.099 --> 00:33:49.039
to leave people with? Yeah, I think, Bill, what
00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:51.700
I would like to say, and it's probably thinking
00:33:51.700 --> 00:33:54.160
a little bit about the next generation and also
00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:56.980
those that are... that are in the technology
00:33:56.980 --> 00:33:59.720
space and other industries, real estate is a
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:01.900
great place to work. I think on an individual
00:34:01.900 --> 00:34:04.940
level, on a professional level. And as I, you
00:34:04.940 --> 00:34:06.519
know, we kicked off the beginning of this by
00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:08.219
talking a little bit about the importance of
00:34:08.219 --> 00:34:10.880
cities. And I think that's hugely recognized
00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:14.480
now. And I think for those younger generation
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:16.860
coming through, thinking about careers, thinking
00:34:16.860 --> 00:34:19.420
about opportunity, I think real estate is a wonderful
00:34:19.420 --> 00:34:23.260
opportunity. It needs great people. It needs
00:34:23.260 --> 00:34:26.500
really advanced skills. both on the EQ and the
00:34:26.500 --> 00:34:29.159
IQ side. It needs people that can bring industry
00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:31.980
together. It needs technology, but it provides
00:34:31.980 --> 00:34:34.519
an opportunity to really leave positive legacies
00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:37.340
as well. What I would like to say to those who
00:34:37.340 --> 00:34:39.840
are thinking about their careers and thinking
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:41.760
about real estate, I think real estate's a great
00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:44.400
opportunity. So I would encourage people to come
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:46.199
into the industry. I think it's got a really
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:49.840
bright future and it needs bright, creative people
00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:51.840
that can really make a difference. That's great.
00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:55.619
And it is the single greatest part of the world
00:34:55.619 --> 00:34:59.619
GDP is the real estate sector. I don't think
00:34:59.619 --> 00:35:02.539
people realize just how big this sector is and
00:35:02.539 --> 00:35:05.079
what the real opportunities are. There's a lot
00:35:05.079 --> 00:35:07.619
of change coming. And if you want to be part
00:35:07.619 --> 00:35:10.840
of it, it's a great career for anyone who joins.
00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:13.380
Well, thank you, David. I really appreciate it
00:35:13.380 --> 00:35:16.699
and look forward to continuing to follow you
00:35:16.699 --> 00:35:20.800
and get your wisdom as you continue on your journey.
00:35:20.900 --> 00:35:23.119
Thanks very much, Bill. We'll speak again soon.