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[upbeat music] With a twist of your hand, I saw you. With a twist of your hand, I saw you. With a- We're just keeping that song on because Anna Ray loves it, so that's our intro until YouTube kicks us off.
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[laughs] Uh, but I actually grabbed it. I think it's in the public domain. I don't really know, but, um- Might be short enough, I think [laughs] That's the mission. It's super, it's super quick. I'm Jay Rosental.
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That is Jeremy Burke. This is This Week in Cannabis live. Jeremy, it's just you and I today. Hope people- It's nice to be here with you, Jay. I, I, I kinda like it, you know?
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[chuckles] Well, I don't want you bad-mouthing other people. We like having them on as well. [laughs] Um, there's, there's, uh... It, it's always busy in cannabis.
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We'll talk about some of the sort of really topical stuff.
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But I wanna talk about this first because early-- Well, in today's, in our newsletter today, you wrote, uh, about crypto just learned what cannabis already knows.
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It's easy to spot the similarities between crypto and cannabis, especially where the speed at which Washington regulates bumps up against the expectations of retail investors in an emerging industry.
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I like what you wrote. Give us a little bit of background, sort of your thinking there because, um, I think from a retail investor perspective, um, these two are top of mind. Yeah.
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No, uh, Jay, it sounds really smart when you read it out loud. So, uh, I, I, I appreciate that. No. Um, it's, it's-- I, I put together...
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I mean, last night, uh, I just, you know, was at the gym just kinda thinking about things, and I put together 400 words on something I've been ruminating on, which is, um, there's a lot of disappointment, uh, you know, among cannabis retail investors, and, you know, we have these conversations all the time, that Washington can't get anything done, right?
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Um, I, I highlighted the Safer Banking Act, which I believe was first introduced in twenty nineteen, um, and still has yet to come to a full Senate vote, right?
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And so, um, there's a lot of disappointment, but I think, you know, the idea I wanted to get across was this is by design in Washington, right? Like, this is how...
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You know, I'm, I'm Canadian, but I, I've studied the American system, and this is how the framers put together the system deliberately to be slow on these big public policy issues. Now, not, that's not to say it's right.
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It's just to say that the speed of quarterly earnings does not necessarily mesh well with Congress, and we see that in every emerging industry that is spurred by capitalism.
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I mean, cannabis is sort of example number one.
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But crypto, you know, I was thinking about it, the, the CLARITY Act, a big crypto bill that the industry was coalescing around, failed by one vote on a procedural vote in the Senate.
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And so it reminded me a lot of cannabis, right? You know, prices run up, pe-people get excited that regulation is finally here. This will be legitimized, and then it doesn't happen, and prices fall.
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Um, we've seen this movie before, and we're seeing it in AI right now too. I mean, that's something I didn't have the word count to get to, but AI, you know, is state by state regulated.
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Um, you know, despite what is going on in the White House, um, it seems very hard to get real legislation through to mitigate some of the problems that even AI companies themselves are highlighting with the technology, right?
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And so, um, I don't know. There's just this interesting dynamic here among emerging industries that, that capitalism is just much, much faster than the legislative branch.
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And, uh, you know, if you don't tune your expectations accordingly, you're gonna be disappointed, both as an investor and as someone who's paying attention to the space and, and, you know, wants to see cannabis reform happen.
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Yeah, it is interesting. And then adding, especially with crypto, well, crypto, uh, cannabis, and AI as well, and maybe we can throw hemp into this too. Like add- Yeah, yeah... layers of complexity in at that.
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Even when we talked to, uh, Jim Higdon this week- Yeah...
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uh, from, um, Cornbread Hemp, where we talk about sort of hemp regulations, the twenty eighteen he- um, you know, farm bill, where it's something that we talk about a lot.
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The industry, certainly cannabis and the hemp industry, talk about a great deal. He says he's walking into congressional offices and it's like- Yeah... the first conversation all over again.
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And even maybe the third conversation in that office, but the people have changed, right?
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So it's a bit like not only is this, um, pressing and the need is there and all those things, and there's deadlines certainly in related to hemp- Yeah... rescheduling is taking a long time.
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It's like it is complex and both com... And Mark Hauser, who we talk to all the time, is usually on the show. Yeah. Drugs are complicated.
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And like these things take time, and capitalism moves faster than these things for sure. You know, no, you know, even the New York Stock Exchange [chuckles] has, uh, medical cannabis companies listed now.
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So it's, it is, it is interesting to see sort of the, this unfold and then people be, um, surprised, I guess, that, that D.C. moves slowly. Yeah. No, I, I, I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head, Jay.
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I mean, it, it's something that I always... You know, in, in my mid-twenties when I first started covering cannabis, right? I, I was always like, "Why?"
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You know, and I'll swear, like I, I would talk to some congressional offices and I'd be like, "Why, why am I sitting here as a twenty-six-year-old, you know, more educated on the topic than the people actually making laws, right?"
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But then you realize like, you know, as I got older, you realize that like this is a twenty-minute conversation, um, part of their day in a day, you know, with maybe ten, twenty-minute conversations across all these different subject ma-matter areas.
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Excuse me. And so part of that is by design, and the industry does have to pick up slack and help these lawmakers understand, uh, what they're actually legislating, how these policy work.
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And, and cannabis itself is extremely complicated.
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Like, I was thinking about, you know, Jim's comment to us where, you know, he's going into these congressional offices with someone who hasn't paid attention to cannabis or THC at all, and then they have the hemp THC side telling them one thing, the regulated cannabis industry saying another thing, and they're like, "What is going on here?"
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Right? They have twenty minutes of their day to sort of figure this out. And so, you know, it, it, it is sort of a flaw, um, i-in the American system, but it's a flaw by design, right?
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And so we have to sort of think about that as we go through this, uh, with cannabis and everything else. Well, I was gonna put a plug in for the parliamentary system. Um, but [laughs]
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as an American, I, I worked on Capitol Hill. Things here- Yeah... in Canada, where we have a parliamentary system, is Um- Yes... uh, it sometimes sort of a coalition type government. Um, and things either move or don't.
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It's sort of almost binary. It's almost like if it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. There's not this deliberative process necessarily that takes years and years. Um, e-evidence in cannabis, right?
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2015, Tr-Justin Trudeau gets elected. Yeah. By 2018, we had cannabis on the shelves. Like, I know that that seems like- Yeah... a long time. It certainly did here. Yeah.
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But it happened, and some things aren't as complicated, uh, in this type of system than there. Um, they also have, you know, the economy's, you know, 10 times the size, et cetera, et cetera, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Look, like America is, is, you know, a far bigger country than Canada, right?
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Like, it's hard, you know, you can't compare, uh, you know, Canada is, is essentially a state, you know, in terms of the size of its economy, the population- Oh. [laughs] Whoa, you better... Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
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Yeah. [laughs] Let's like flip that, what you just said and- Um, if-... revoke your passport. [laughs] Well, I've got both, so.
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Um, but, uh, uh, no, no, no, I mean, the point being is Canada, you know, 35 or so million people. Um, you know, the economy is what it is.
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Like, it's a little easier to get things done, and plus to your point, Jay, the parliamentary system, there's a lot more direct representation.
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There's sort of, um, you know, a tri-party system of, of three, you know, four, maybe five real parties depending on the composition of Parliament. Um, so, so, you know, your, your, your, uh,
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your input is more, you know, [laughs] rational and reasoned within Parliament itself.
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At the same time, you know, if we did have a president who cared a little bit more about the cannabis industry, not to take away what the Trump White House is doing, but, um, look, like the president does have a bully pulpit and, you know, I, I think there is a counterfactual where a Democratic president is moving things along a little bit faster into full legalization.
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Um, but, you know, that's not the reality we're in, and we have to deal with that.
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Exactly, and that is a good segue not to, uh, well, one, to provide me an opening that there is a new leader of the free world, and he happens to live in Ottawa at the moment.
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[laughs] Um, we spoke to the leader of parliament this week or yesterday. Um- Yesterday, yeah, yeah. I don't know how, uh, to me it seems like the world is shifting dramatically a-and that's strange.
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We'll see how long, how, how far it moves and how long it lasts. Um, but this is an awkward transition to the fact that there is an American company wanting to take over a Canadian company.
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Curaleaf and Aurora are back and forth and back again. We talk about this every single week. This week it, um, I wanna ask you. Yes.
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It seemed like it got a little more heated when the CEOs started talking publicly on media platforms. We had, uh, Boris Jordan on, um, on the Dales Report, or whatever it's called, uh, the Dales Report.
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And sorry, not whatever it's called. The Dales Report is what it's called. Um, and we had, um, uh, Miguel, uh, Martin on- Martin, yeah...
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um, speaking direct to camera about I, I thought a very specific piece about what is in at the market, um- Yeah...
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offering, which, which Curaleaf wants to disallow to happen and a bunch of regulators and a- and in, um, Alberta to do that. So there is some, um, not sniping on the same stage, but sniping all at the same time.
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It seemed to have heated up this week. Um, was that your sense too? And we also had a former, uh, well-known- Mm-hmm... executive from Aurora sort of criticizing the Aurora approach, saying they're not on war footing.
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Now to you, do you agree with that assessment? Yeah. Uh, look, look, the, this, the, the jury's out on what my assessment is, right? Like I, I, you know, I, I've never been through a proxy fight.
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Like I, I don't know what the outcome is gonna be, and I don't know what Aurora shareholders should do, so none of my advice is telling them to do X, Y, or Z, right?
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At the same time, your point, Jay, is absolutely well taken. It has gotten a little bit personal. Um, you know, Boris did make some comments on, on the Dales Report, um,
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to the host that, you know, sort of saying is like, "I don't like to say this, but, uh, you know, maybe, uh, Miguel wants to keep his job and likes his salary," and, you know, he also said something to the effect of, uh, you know, "I heard from senior Aurora executives who don't wanna use their name that, uh, they like this deal and they think it should happen," et cetera, et cetera, right?
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Like, we can only take him at his word. I, I, you know, he's, Boris is, is very credible. Um, he's outspoken, but he is very credible. And so maybe he is having those conversations, right?
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At the same time, like I don't know what, uh, Miguel's motivations are, right? Like, I'm sure he wants to keep his job. I'm sure he also has a fiduciary duty to do what is best for his shareholders.
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But, you know, it has gotten pretty personal. Um, you know, it was interesting to see Aurora release, uh, that video of, of Miguel talking about the at the market offering, um, for two reasons.
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One is like, you know, okay, they're starting to get out there a little bit more, right? Uh, Curaleaf has so far dominated the news cycle, like in, in, in our inboxes and across social media.
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Um, but two, that, that is actually a, a, a very, very key piece of the fight right now because Curaleaf's bid is for $4 per share, right? Aurora says that undermines the long-term growth of the company.
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They think the stock is worth more than $4 per share. Uh, the at-- They're s- meanwhile, they are selling stock at below $4 per share as part of the at the market or ATM offering.
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Now, um, Miguel in the video, he says, you know, "Look, like we entered this program long before the offer," right? Which is true.
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But at the same time, like there are the optics of selling the stock for lower than you're saying it's worth, uh, as part of a takeover bid.
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So that, that's a difficult needle to thread even though like it is true, they started it before, before, um, Curaleaf's bid.
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So look, w-we will see what happens, but I think, you know, the bid is really gonna hinge on is w-what is the stock worth per share, right? Um, you know, will Curaleaf go up to $6? Does that close the deal?
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Like I, I don't know, maybe. Um, at the same time, you know, there's probably a lot better ways to do this than, than sniping back and forth on podcasts and on social media.
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Uh, you know, maybe, maybe a couple conversations between the two chiefs could actually get something done. Or do it here. Do it on this show next time. Or, yeah, yeah, exactly.
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Or, or as a plug that we-we've tried to do, um, so maybe, uh, the teams from both companies are watching. We are more than happy to give you a space to share your peace.
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I would also- Directly to our viewers and each other.
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[laughs] Someone that we both have a lot of time for, and certainly if you were part or following the Canadian cannabis industry over time and Aurora's growth, launch growth, and sort of success over time- Yeah...
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I think at some point, multi-billion dollar valuation. Uh, Cam Batley, who was the chief investment officer, I think at one point or had a serious role, um- Chief commercial. Yeah, yeah Yeah.
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Um, he said this on Twitter, which surprised me actually, 'cause he's been, he's been following and commenting on it a long time. "Aurora issued a business..." This was earlier this week. "Issued an update this morning.
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It strikes me as pretty thin gruel, particularly when facing an existential threat to its independence. No real news, no new numbers, data metrics. Five paragraphs, three of them quotes from the CEO."
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I actually thought that was, um, uh... I always think he's insightful, always good to listen to for sure. Yeah. But also harsher than the words he's been saying. [lip smacks] Uh, it, it is harsh.
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And, and I, you know, I, I've been... You know, Cam has been a source of mine for, for years and I, I, I trust what he said.
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And look, like, he is someone who has seen this movie before, both from inside Aurora and with hostile fights and with, you know, these sort of corporate battles inside and outside of cannabis that spill out into the press.
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And, you know, he's not shy about his perspective, right? I think, you know, he's still an Aurora shareholder, and he cares about the company. He worked there for a long time. And so I think he wants to see...
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I mean, he said in his, in his tweet, like, a little bit more of a war footing and, and, you know, we are starting to see that, right? Again, like, I, I don't know what's going on with Aurora internally. Like, it, it...
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You know, I wanna be open to the possibility that, like, maybe there is another deal out there that they are working on too, right?
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A- a- and maybe it doesn't, you know, uh, uh, bode well for that deal to be so hostile to Curaleaf. Like, I, I don't know if it's a possibility. It's pure speculation.
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Um, but at the same time, there, there's gotta be some reasons why they're not on such a war footing as Cam says. And, and I don't know what that reason is. Um, right now is the time to do it, right?
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Like, the, the bid closes December 1st. It's September 18th. Like, yeah, it's a long time, but i- i- in the corporate world, it's not very long. Like, December will be here before you know it. Yep.
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Uh, I wanna shift gears a sec to talk about New York in particular. Mm-hmm. Um, and something that the mayor's...
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Uh, not the mayor's, the governor's office said this week, which I bumped on because, um, it just seemed like a big deal [laughs] that the governor's... Uh, so Chelsea Davis, the governor, uh, Governor Cuomo- Yeah...
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deputy secretary for Gaming, Cannabis, and Alcohol said this last week. Uh, this is she talking about, um, [smacks lip] unregulated hemp drinks in bodegas throughout New York City. Yeah.
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"I think it's a real public health risk and a real disaster waiting to happen." I don't remember [laughs] the governor's office saying such things like this, especially in the midst of this- No...
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the ban going into effect in December. Um, this seems... I mean, I guess q- question one, is this something new the governor's office is saying? Two, did something lead to her saying this?
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So three, like, does this have an impact? And I guess four, the political implications, because we talked about this before, where this is not a partisan issue necessarily.
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This is like even some state regulated cannabis markets are okay with hemp. Some, like New York, are certainly think it's a public health hazard.
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Like, this seems like a new front for the governor's office to be fighting on, which the industry- Yeah... in New York is probably happy about. Yes? Um, I agree. This is absolutely new.
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I, I have not heard this from the governor's office. I've not heard them really pay attention to the hemp issue whatsoever.
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Um, let me give a quick plug to our High Rise event coming October, because we will hear from the leader of the Office of Cannabis Management, and I will ask him these questions directly, how they are thinking about the hemp issue, right?
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[lip smacks] Part of this, in my view, you know, we, we speak to a lot of regulatory offices around the country pretty regularly.
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Um, they are getting no real guidance from the federal government, uh, a- about what to do about hemp-derived THC, right? This ban will go into effect on December 11th. Uh, that is soon, like I said before.
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Um, meanwhile, they have no idea what to do, right? Um, you know, some state legislatures are taking up on their own and saying, you know, they have different ideas.
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We'll put, you know, hemp THC back in the dispensary channel. Like, that will kill some of the market, but, you know, it makes it easier for them to sort of regulate and operate the market.
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Um, I view this as, as the governor's office kind of front running whatever guidance they're gonna get. All of a sudden, you know, uh, Chelsea Davis, who runs... She has a bigger purview than just cannabis.
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It's, it's, I think, tobacco, gaming, alcohol. Um, I view it as getting ahead of it. All the fun stuff. Right. All, all the fun stuff in New York. Um, I, I, I view it as them getting ahead of it a little bit.
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Um, and, and look, like, when... After I put that in the newsletter, um, there's a bodega on my corner I, I go to all the time. Um, I'm not gonna say exactly what corner it's on. I don't want them to get in trouble.
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Um, but, but, you know, you, you walk in, you walk into that store, um, you know, there's coconut water and, and protein shakes, like all the regular, you know, VC-backed CPG products that are in any New York City bodega.
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Yerba Mate. Yerba Mate, exactly.
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Um, but right, right there, there's, there's, you know, there, you know, there are hemp-derived beverages, and you see the ones from Cycling Frog, which are 5 or 10 milligrams, doing business the right way.
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And then there's these random brands that'll have like 300 milligrams of THC or 100 milligrams of THC. And, you know, I'm not sure the people behind the counter are really checking for IDs.
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And look, like it's, it's one thing if, if a teenager buys a, a 10 milligram drink. Like, they're, they're gonna be high, and it might be weird and uncomfortable, but they'll be fine.
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Like, 100 milligrams, uh, you know, for a 16-year-old who is after school buying the drink at a bodega with their friends, like that, that might not be so good.
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Um, and you know, we, we, we wanna sort of regulate ahead of these issues happening. Uh, you know, at, at the same time, right, like the, uh... [laughs] Thank you. Thank you, Randall.
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Um, um, at, at, at the same time, you know, uh, I'm sure the bodega sellers, they wanna be in the hemp-derived THC drink business, right?
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And so their trade unions are gonna, are gonna push hard to make sure that these drinks can stay on their shelves.
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Now, that will come with some compromise, of course, like age gating and potency regulation, et cetera, et cetera. Um, but we'll see.
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I think this is the first step to regulation kind of forcing that decision and, um, you know, we'll see what happens.
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We'll see, like it, it could end up all back in dispensary shelves Um, or, you know, we could have regulations that look like selling THC drinks at the Barclays Center in Madison Square Garden.
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Um, so we'll see what happens. Yeah. I like the sound of that. Jeremy, it's, uh, the time in the show that everybody loves the most, and I love the most. [laughs] It's time for [cheering] [booing] winners and losers.
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We didn't, I didn't prep one, but I have one in my mind. Do you have one in your mind, a winner or a loser? Um, I, I have a, I have a winner, yes. Okay. Um, and it is those who are,
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uh, [laughs] those who closely watch the cannabis sector that may or may not actually own Curaleaf or Aurora stock because, um, rarely do you see two CEOs sniping so publicly, so many press releases.
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Like, i- in all my years of covering deals in the cannabis space, this is definitely the most interesting one.
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Um, and so if you like to be a fly on the wall and may- might not have skin in the game or some sort of, um, intention to drive an outcome a certain way, like, it's fun to watch.
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Um, these deals are, uh, you know, can be high drama, and this one certainly is. [laughs] I'll say.
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Um, and I, I, I wonder, I wonder, Jeremy, and this is not a winner or loser, but, like, what else, um, you can't predict the future, but, like, what else is about to happen?
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Not on this front, but, like, are there other big cannabis companies eyeing other big cannabis companies right now pre
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these inflection points that we're gonna have in the US, whether it's new markets coming online or rescheduling or 280 going away?
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And I guess if 280 went away and there was foreseeability on that, it opens up a lot of cash or potential cash for these companies to spend. Yeah.
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I, I, look, I, I, I'm sure that Curaleaf is not the only company that wants to kick the tires on, you know, Canadian licensed producers, right?
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Um, you know, like, a, a lot of these businesses, they have a lot of waves coming over the bow. I know that's a bad metaphor, but, like, cannabis is a hard business to operate in.
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Um, I, you know, I don't know if they really have these sort of dedicated M&A teams that just spend all day looking at deals and thinking about strategy like, you know, a bigger consumer company would.
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At the same time, they are doing that, and, and it's obvious that, you know, the way Curaleaf talks about this deal, it would be very, you know, not to use a- Accretive...
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terrible business term, accretive to their business. Right. I know, I know you know where I was going with that.
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Um, it would be very accretive to their business and, and, you know, every, every MSO would be silly not to kick the tires a little bit.
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Um, you know, that being said- We're gonna start playing this, we're gonna start playing this song if you say accretive. [laughs] Yeah, good. Um, I won't use the word anymore.
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But, you know, the, the, the- We heard you... all that is to say, like- This is gonna be the new one we play. [siren] That's gonna be the accretive one. I don't know. [laughs] Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah.
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Um, the accretive whistle. Um- [laughs] Yeah, they, they'd be silly, they'd be silly not to kick the tires.
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Like, that, that, that's my whole point is, like, is, like, y- you should be evaluating every single deal that could make your business better if you are an executive at a company.
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Um, and these deals could certainly make both businesses better as long as it's agreed on. So, you know, we'll see what happens.
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Uh, I hope it goes on for a long time 'cause this is fun to watch frankly, and I like when CEOs are actually put on the spot to do normal things like talk to people. Yeah.
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Make a pitch that's not, that is, that is to retail investors and other investors too, that is, heartfelt is not the right word, but down to earth. Yeah.
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Let, let me, let me add one more comment on this, and I think especially in emerging industries like cannabis, I mean, you know, CEOs are, for all intents and purposes, like, they have platforms like, like congressmen used to, you know?
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And, and so, like, you, you are sort of a leader. Um, you need to be thinking about these things. You need to be thinking about how this represents on your industry, on your company, on your shareholders.
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Uh, and so, you know, I, I do think we are seeing that, um, you know, especially from Boris right now. You can sort of, you know, criticize his leadership style and the things he's doing of course.
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At the same time, he's, he's the one CEO who right now is saying, like, you know, "We are a representative of this industry.
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Let's be, you know, extremely aggressive with how we do things, and let's communicate the shit out of what we're doing." Um, and so, you know, I, I give kudos to that. Yeah. Me too, me too.
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And it was, it's, well, and it's fun to watch. Um- And fun to watch. [laughs] I, my winner of the week, um, I have two. One is, uh, no losers but winner of the weeks, but maybe I'll roll in a loser too.
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My winner of the week is Minnesota, which has had a, let's call it a, um, unique path, unique path to legalization. They had a very awkward medical program for a fairly long time.
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Um, they did legalize, but before they did that, they really sort of regulated sort of hemp-derived THC products, and they were available in breweries and other places.
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And it was the first place in the country that you could buy it in Total Wine, and it actually normalized, I think, a lot of what, uh, how, how we would think about a normalized hemp-derived THC beverage market.
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That said, they also have a $250 million in their first-year cannabis market, uh, regulated cannabis market. Mm-hmm.
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That's the first 12 months, 150 of which were adult use, 100 was medical, so still a pretty robust medical program.
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Even if the market stays $250 million or grows, I expect those numbers to shift dramatically towards recreational as it does in most markets.
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But kudos to that, uh, state, which has weathered the storm, but also, um, it was a bipartisan effort more or less to get it there. Uh, it did take some time, but it did get there.
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Shout out to Jason Tersek in Minnesota, formerly Minnesota Cannabis Law, now, um, [lip smack] uh, with Vicente. And the other one is Jim Higdon, uh, from Cornbread Hemp, who joined us- Yeah... uh, earlier in the week.
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I, first of all, I just, Jim's awesome, but also gave a real thoughtful approach to what regulating hemp products might be like and why he's in favor of that, what it actually means if the ban goes into effect in December, sort of real time jobs and what it means for his, um, operation- Mm-hmm...
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in Louisville. And everybody should check that out. It's on our YouTube page and our LinkedIn page as well, but a real thoughtful conversation, very thoughtful guy.
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Um, really a, a great and dynamic leader in that space, so shout out to him, um, for that as well. Yeah. So those are my two winners of the week. I don't have any losers, but mostly because the US Open is over,
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and there's nobody, nobody to complain about weed smell anymore. Yeah. [laughs] I did not want to see the winner of the US Open win, I'll just say that. That's fair. [laughs] But, but, uh, but it's, uh, oh, sorry.
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Let me do some plugs about us 'cause this is, now that it's just us- The men, the men's one. I wanna, I wanna clarify. Oh. But yes. Yeah, yeah.
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[laughs] Um, uh, we have an event coming up October 22nd in New York City, the second High Rise event. I just showed a little blip. You can find it, uh, in our newsletter for sure and on our website. Um, uh, that's one.
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October, you have to apply to attend. The application's fairly easy. It's, like, five, six questions. Takes about five minutes, but go to, uh, find the link, and I'll put it in the show notes. You can go find that.
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November 12th, we're gonna be in St. Louis for our second iteration of, uh, the Midwest Cannabis Forum. We're calling it Pot, Policy, and Politics.
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It happens right after the midterm elections, so we will unpack what that all means in a very dynamic market in Missouri at a very cool place, Second Shift Brewing, uh, with some, let's call them St.
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Louis-inspired surprises and treats if you attend. So there's a link there to that we're putting in partnership with Grown In. We will be in Las Vegas as well. You will learn more about that coming up.
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And then we will be in Buffalo, more details coming, but on December 17th. And if you want to meet Buffalo people, show up there December 17th because people in Buffalo like when you show up in winter, I know.
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We live down the street. We will be there. Uh, so that's, uh, all those things. And that's it for me, Jer. Anything else? I think that's it for me too, Jay. Okay. Good. Well- Yeah...
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for my Jewish friends, have an easy fast on Monday. Happy New Year to those that celebrate, and we will be back here next Friday with the whole crew. Thanks, Jer. Thanks, Jay.
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[upbeat music]
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[upbeat music] With a twist of your hand, I saw you. With a twist of your hand, I saw you. With a- We're just keeping that song on because Anna Ray loves it, so that's our intro until YouTube kicks us off.
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[laughs] Uh, but I actually grabbed it. I think it's in the public domain. I don't really know, but, um- Might be short enough, I think [laughs] That's the mission. It's super, it's super quick. I'm Jay Rosental.
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That is Jeremy Burke. This is This Week in Cannabis live. Jeremy, it's just you and I today. Hope people- It's nice to be here with you, Jay. I, I, I kinda like it, you know?
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[chuckles] Well, I don't want you bad-mouthing other people. We like having them on as well. [laughs] Um, there's, there's, uh... It, it's always busy in cannabis.
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We'll talk about some of the sort of really topical stuff.
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But I wanna talk about this first because early-- Well, in today's, in our newsletter today, you wrote, uh, about crypto just learned what cannabis already knows.
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It's easy to spot the similarities between crypto and cannabis, especially where the speed at which Washington regulates bumps up against the expectations of retail investors in an emerging industry.
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I like what you wrote. Give us a little bit of background, sort of your thinking there because, um, I think from a retail investor perspective, um, these two are top of mind. Yeah.
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No, uh, Jay, it sounds really smart when you read it out loud. So, uh, I, I, I appreciate that. No. Um, it's, it's-- I, I put together...
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I mean, last night, uh, I just, you know, was at the gym just kinda thinking about things, and I put together 400 words on something I've been ruminating on, which is, um, there's a lot of disappointment, uh, you know, among cannabis retail investors, and, you know, we have these conversations all the time, that Washington can't get anything done, right?
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Um, I, I highlighted the Safer Banking Act, which I believe was first introduced in twenty nineteen, um, and still has yet to come to a full Senate vote, right?
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And so, um, there's a lot of disappointment, but I think, you know, the idea I wanted to get across was this is by design in Washington, right? Like, this is how...
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You know, I'm, I'm Canadian, but I, I've studied the American system, and this is how the framers put together the system deliberately to be slow on these big public policy issues. Now, not, that's not to say it's right.
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It's just to say that the speed of quarterly earnings does not necessarily mesh well with Congress, and we see that in every emerging industry that is spurred by capitalism.
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I mean, cannabis is sort of example number one.
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But crypto, you know, I was thinking about it, the, the CLARITY Act, a big crypto bill that the industry was coalescing around, failed by one vote on a procedural vote in the Senate.
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And so it reminded me a lot of cannabis, right? You know, prices run up, pe-people get excited that regulation is finally here. This will be legitimized, and then it doesn't happen, and prices fall.
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Um, we've seen this movie before, and we're seeing it in AI right now too. I mean, that's something I didn't have the word count to get to, but AI, you know, is state by state regulated.
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Um, you know, despite what is going on in the White House, um, it seems very hard to get real legislation through to mitigate some of the problems that even AI companies themselves are highlighting with the technology, right?
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And so, um, I don't know. There's just this interesting dynamic here among emerging industries that, that capitalism is just much, much faster than the legislative branch.
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And, uh, you know, if you don't tune your expectations accordingly, you're gonna be disappointed, both as an investor and as someone who's paying attention to the space and, and, you know, wants to see cannabis reform happen.
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Yeah, it is interesting. And then adding, especially with crypto, well, crypto, uh, cannabis, and AI as well, and maybe we can throw hemp into this too. Like add- Yeah, yeah... layers of complexity in at that.
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Even when we talked to, uh, Jim Higdon this week- Yeah...
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uh, from, um, Cornbread Hemp, where we talk about sort of hemp regulations, the twenty eighteen he- um, you know, farm bill, where it's something that we talk about a lot.
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The industry, certainly cannabis and the hemp industry, talk about a great deal. He says he's walking into congressional offices and it's like- Yeah... the first conversation all over again.
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And even maybe the third conversation in that office, but the people have changed, right?
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So it's a bit like not only is this, um, pressing and the need is there and all those things, and there's deadlines certainly in related to hemp- Yeah... rescheduling is taking a long time.
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It's like it is complex and both com... And Mark Hauser, who we talk to all the time, is usually on the show. Yeah. Drugs are complicated.
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And like these things take time, and capitalism moves faster than these things for sure. You know, no, you know, even the New York Stock Exchange [chuckles] has, uh, medical cannabis companies listed now.
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So it's, it is, it is interesting to see sort of the, this unfold and then people be, um, surprised, I guess, that, that D.C. moves slowly. Yeah. No, I, I, I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head, Jay.
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I mean, it, it's something that I always... You know, in, in my mid-twenties when I first started covering cannabis, right? I, I was always like, "Why?"
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You know, and I'll swear, like I, I would talk to some congressional offices and I'd be like, "Why, why am I sitting here as a twenty-six-year-old, you know, more educated on the topic than the people actually making laws, right?"
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But then you realize like, you know, as I got older, you realize that like this is a twenty-minute conversation, um, part of their day in a day, you know, with maybe ten, twenty-minute conversations across all these different subject ma-matter areas.
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Excuse me. And so part of that is by design, and the industry does have to pick up slack and help these lawmakers understand, uh, what they're actually legislating, how these policy work.
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And, and cannabis itself is extremely complicated.
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Like, I was thinking about, you know, Jim's comment to us where, you know, he's going into these congressional offices with someone who hasn't paid attention to cannabis or THC at all, and then they have the hemp THC side telling them one thing, the regulated cannabis industry saying another thing, and they're like, "What is going on here?"
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Right? They have twenty minutes of their day to sort of figure this out. And so, you know, it, it, it is sort of a flaw, um, i-in the American system, but it's a flaw by design, right?
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And so we have to sort of think about that as we go through this, uh, with cannabis and everything else. Well, I was gonna put a plug in for the parliamentary system. Um, but [laughs]
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as an American, I, I worked on Capitol Hill. Things here- Yeah... in Canada, where we have a parliamentary system, is Um- Yes... uh, it sometimes sort of a coalition type government. Um, and things either move or don't.
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It's sort of almost binary. It's almost like if it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. There's not this deliberative process necessarily that takes years and years. Um, e-evidence in cannabis, right?
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2015, Tr-Justin Trudeau gets elected. Yeah. By 2018, we had cannabis on the shelves. Like, I know that that seems like- Yeah... a long time. It certainly did here. Yeah.
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But it happened, and some things aren't as complicated, uh, in this type of system than there. Um, they also have, you know, the economy's, you know, 10 times the size, et cetera, et cetera, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Look, like America is, is, you know, a far bigger country than Canada, right?
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Like, it's hard, you know, you can't compare, uh, you know, Canada is, is essentially a state, you know, in terms of the size of its economy, the population- Oh. [laughs] Whoa, you better... Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
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Yeah. [laughs] Let's like flip that, what you just said and- Um, if-... revoke your passport. [laughs] Well, I've got both, so.
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Um, but, uh, uh, no, no, no, I mean, the point being is Canada, you know, 35 or so million people. Um, you know, the economy is what it is.
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Like, it's a little easier to get things done, and plus to your point, Jay, the parliamentary system, there's a lot more direct representation.
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There's sort of, um, you know, a tri-party system of, of three, you know, four, maybe five real parties depending on the composition of Parliament. Um, so, so, you know, your, your, your, uh,
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your input is more, you know, [laughs] rational and reasoned within Parliament itself.
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At the same time, you know, if we did have a president who cared a little bit more about the cannabis industry, not to take away what the Trump White House is doing, but, um, look, like the president does have a bully pulpit and, you know, I, I think there is a counterfactual where a Democratic president is moving things along a little bit faster into full legalization.
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Um, but, you know, that's not the reality we're in, and we have to deal with that.
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Exactly, and that is a good segue not to, uh, well, one, to provide me an opening that there is a new leader of the free world, and he happens to live in Ottawa at the moment.
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[laughs] Um, we spoke to the leader of parliament this week or yesterday. Um- Yesterday, yeah, yeah. I don't know how, uh, to me it seems like the world is shifting dramatically a-and that's strange.
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We'll see how long, how, how far it moves and how long it lasts. Um, but this is an awkward transition to the fact that there is an American company wanting to take over a Canadian company.
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Curaleaf and Aurora are back and forth and back again. We talk about this every single week. This week it, um, I wanna ask you. Yes.
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It seemed like it got a little more heated when the CEOs started talking publicly on media platforms. We had, uh, Boris Jordan on, um, on the Dales Report, or whatever it's called, uh, the Dales Report.
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And sorry, not whatever it's called. The Dales Report is what it's called. Um, and we had, um, uh, Miguel, uh, Martin on- Martin, yeah...
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um, speaking direct to camera about I, I thought a very specific piece about what is in at the market, um- Yeah...
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offering, which, which Curaleaf wants to disallow to happen and a bunch of regulators and a- and in, um, Alberta to do that. So there is some, um, not sniping on the same stage, but sniping all at the same time.
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It seemed to have heated up this week. Um, was that your sense too? And we also had a former, uh, well-known- Mm-hmm... executive from Aurora sort of criticizing the Aurora approach, saying they're not on war footing.
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Now to you, do you agree with that assessment? Yeah. Uh, look, look, the, this, the, the jury's out on what my assessment is, right? Like I, I, you know, I, I've never been through a proxy fight.
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Like I, I don't know what the outcome is gonna be, and I don't know what Aurora shareholders should do, so none of my advice is telling them to do X, Y, or Z, right?
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At the same time, your point, Jay, is absolutely well taken. It has gotten a little bit personal. Um, you know, Boris did make some comments on, on the Dales Report, um,
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to the host that, you know, sort of saying is like, "I don't like to say this, but, uh, you know, maybe, uh, Miguel wants to keep his job and likes his salary," and, you know, he also said something to the effect of, uh, you know, "I heard from senior Aurora executives who don't wanna use their name that, uh, they like this deal and they think it should happen," et cetera, et cetera, right?
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Like, we can only take him at his word. I, I, you know, he's, Boris is, is very credible. Um, he's outspoken, but he is very credible. And so maybe he is having those conversations, right?
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At the same time, like I don't know what, uh, Miguel's motivations are, right? Like, I'm sure he wants to keep his job. I'm sure he also has a fiduciary duty to do what is best for his shareholders.
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But, you know, it has gotten pretty personal. Um, you know, it was interesting to see Aurora release, uh, that video of, of Miguel talking about the at the market offering, um, for two reasons.
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One is like, you know, okay, they're starting to get out there a little bit more, right? Uh, Curaleaf has so far dominated the news cycle, like in, in, in our inboxes and across social media.
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Um, but two, that, that is actually a, a, a very, very key piece of the fight right now because Curaleaf's bid is for $4 per share, right? Aurora says that undermines the long-term growth of the company.
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They think the stock is worth more than $4 per share. Uh, the at-- They're s- meanwhile, they are selling stock at below $4 per share as part of the at the market or ATM offering.
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Now, um, Miguel in the video, he says, you know, "Look, like we entered this program long before the offer," right? Which is true.
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But at the same time, like there are the optics of selling the stock for lower than you're saying it's worth, uh, as part of a takeover bid.
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So that, that's a difficult needle to thread even though like it is true, they started it before, before, um, Curaleaf's bid.
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So look, w-we will see what happens, but I think, you know, the bid is really gonna hinge on is w-what is the stock worth per share, right? Um, you know, will Curaleaf go up to $6? Does that close the deal?
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Like I, I don't know, maybe. Um, at the same time, you know, there's probably a lot better ways to do this than, than sniping back and forth on podcasts and on social media.
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Uh, you know, maybe, maybe a couple conversations between the two chiefs could actually get something done. Or do it here. Do it on this show next time. Or, yeah, yeah, exactly.
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Or, or as a plug that we-we've tried to do, um, so maybe, uh, the teams from both companies are watching. We are more than happy to give you a space to share your peace.
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I would also- Directly to our viewers and each other.
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[laughs] Someone that we both have a lot of time for, and certainly if you were part or following the Canadian cannabis industry over time and Aurora's growth, launch growth, and sort of success over time- Yeah...
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I think at some point, multi-billion dollar valuation. Uh, Cam Batley, who was the chief investment officer, I think at one point or had a serious role, um- Chief commercial. Yeah, yeah Yeah.
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Um, he said this on Twitter, which surprised me actually, 'cause he's been, he's been following and commenting on it a long time. "Aurora issued a business..." This was earlier this week. "Issued an update this morning.
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It strikes me as pretty thin gruel, particularly when facing an existential threat to its independence. No real news, no new numbers, data metrics. Five paragraphs, three of them quotes from the CEO."
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I actually thought that was, um, uh... I always think he's insightful, always good to listen to for sure. Yeah. But also harsher than the words he's been saying. [lip smacks] Uh, it, it is harsh.
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And, and I, you know, I, I've been... You know, Cam has been a source of mine for, for years and I, I, I trust what he said.
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And look, like, he is someone who has seen this movie before, both from inside Aurora and with hostile fights and with, you know, these sort of corporate battles inside and outside of cannabis that spill out into the press.
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And, you know, he's not shy about his perspective, right? I think, you know, he's still an Aurora shareholder, and he cares about the company. He worked there for a long time. And so I think he wants to see...
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I mean, he said in his, in his tweet, like, a little bit more of a war footing and, and, you know, we are starting to see that, right? Again, like, I, I don't know what's going on with Aurora internally. Like, it, it...
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You know, I wanna be open to the possibility that, like, maybe there is another deal out there that they are working on too, right?
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A- a- and maybe it doesn't, you know, uh, uh, bode well for that deal to be so hostile to Curaleaf. Like, I, I don't know if it's a possibility. It's pure speculation.
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Um, but at the same time, there, there's gotta be some reasons why they're not on such a war footing as Cam says. And, and I don't know what that reason is. Um, right now is the time to do it, right?
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Like, the, the bid closes December 1st. It's September 18th. Like, yeah, it's a long time, but i- i- in the corporate world, it's not very long. Like, December will be here before you know it. Yep.
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Uh, I wanna shift gears a sec to talk about New York in particular. Mm-hmm. Um, and something that the mayor's...
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Uh, not the mayor's, the governor's office said this week, which I bumped on because, um, it just seemed like a big deal [laughs] that the governor's... Uh, so Chelsea Davis, the governor, uh, Governor Cuomo- Yeah...
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deputy secretary for Gaming, Cannabis, and Alcohol said this last week. Uh, this is she talking about, um, [smacks lip] unregulated hemp drinks in bodegas throughout New York City. Yeah.
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"I think it's a real public health risk and a real disaster waiting to happen." I don't remember [laughs] the governor's office saying such things like this, especially in the midst of this- No...
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the ban going into effect in December. Um, this seems... I mean, I guess q- question one, is this something new the governor's office is saying? Two, did something lead to her saying this?
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So three, like, does this have an impact? And I guess four, the political implications, because we talked about this before, where this is not a partisan issue necessarily.
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This is like even some state regulated cannabis markets are okay with hemp. Some, like New York, are certainly think it's a public health hazard.
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Like, this seems like a new front for the governor's office to be fighting on, which the industry- Yeah... in New York is probably happy about. Yes? Um, I agree. This is absolutely new.
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I, I have not heard this from the governor's office. I've not heard them really pay attention to the hemp issue whatsoever.
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Um, let me give a quick plug to our High Rise event coming October, because we will hear from the leader of the Office of Cannabis Management, and I will ask him these questions directly, how they are thinking about the hemp issue, right?
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[lip smacks] Part of this, in my view, you know, we, we speak to a lot of regulatory offices around the country pretty regularly.
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Um, they are getting no real guidance from the federal government, uh, a- about what to do about hemp-derived THC, right? This ban will go into effect on December 11th. Uh, that is soon, like I said before.
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Um, meanwhile, they have no idea what to do, right? Um, you know, some state legislatures are taking up on their own and saying, you know, they have different ideas.
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We'll put, you know, hemp THC back in the dispensary channel. Like, that will kill some of the market, but, you know, it makes it easier for them to sort of regulate and operate the market.
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Um, I view this as, as the governor's office kind of front running whatever guidance they're gonna get. All of a sudden, you know, uh, Chelsea Davis, who runs... She has a bigger purview than just cannabis.
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It's, it's, I think, tobacco, gaming, alcohol. Um, I view it as getting ahead of it. All the fun stuff. Right. All, all the fun stuff in New York. Um, I, I, I view it as them getting ahead of it a little bit.
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Um, and, and look, like, when... After I put that in the newsletter, um, there's a bodega on my corner I, I go to all the time. Um, I'm not gonna say exactly what corner it's on. I don't want them to get in trouble.
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Um, but, but, you know, you, you walk in, you walk into that store, um, you know, there's coconut water and, and protein shakes, like all the regular, you know, VC-backed CPG products that are in any New York City bodega.
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Yerba Mate. Yerba Mate, exactly.
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Um, but right, right there, there's, there's, you know, there, you know, there are hemp-derived beverages, and you see the ones from Cycling Frog, which are 5 or 10 milligrams, doing business the right way.
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And then there's these random brands that'll have like 300 milligrams of THC or 100 milligrams of THC. And, you know, I'm not sure the people behind the counter are really checking for IDs.
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And look, like it's, it's one thing if, if a teenager buys a, a 10 milligram drink. Like, they're, they're gonna be high, and it might be weird and uncomfortable, but they'll be fine.
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Like, 100 milligrams, uh, you know, for a 16-year-old who is after school buying the drink at a bodega with their friends, like that, that might not be so good.
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Um, and you know, we, we, we wanna sort of regulate ahead of these issues happening. Uh, you know, at, at the same time, right, like the, uh... [laughs] Thank you. Thank you, Randall.
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Um, um, at, at, at the same time, you know, uh, I'm sure the bodega sellers, they wanna be in the hemp-derived THC drink business, right?
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And so their trade unions are gonna, are gonna push hard to make sure that these drinks can stay on their shelves.
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Now, that will come with some compromise, of course, like age gating and potency regulation, et cetera, et cetera. Um, but we'll see.
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I think this is the first step to regulation kind of forcing that decision and, um, you know, we'll see what happens.
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We'll see, like it, it could end up all back in dispensary shelves Um, or, you know, we could have regulations that look like selling THC drinks at the Barclays Center in Madison Square Garden.
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Um, so we'll see what happens. Yeah. I like the sound of that. Jeremy, it's, uh, the time in the show that everybody loves the most, and I love the most. [laughs] It's time for [cheering] [booing] winners and losers.
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We didn't, I didn't prep one, but I have one in my mind. Do you have one in your mind, a winner or a loser? Um, I, I have a, I have a winner, yes. Okay. Um, and it is those who are,
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uh, [laughs] those who closely watch the cannabis sector that may or may not actually own Curaleaf or Aurora stock because, um, rarely do you see two CEOs sniping so publicly, so many press releases.
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Like, i- in all my years of covering deals in the cannabis space, this is definitely the most interesting one.
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Um, and so if you like to be a fly on the wall and may- might not have skin in the game or some sort of, um, intention to drive an outcome a certain way, like, it's fun to watch.
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Um, these deals are, uh, you know, can be high drama, and this one certainly is. [laughs] I'll say.
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Um, and I, I, I wonder, I wonder, Jeremy, and this is not a winner or loser, but, like, what else, um, you can't predict the future, but, like, what else is about to happen?
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Not on this front, but, like, are there other big cannabis companies eyeing other big cannabis companies right now pre
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these inflection points that we're gonna have in the US, whether it's new markets coming online or rescheduling or 280 going away?
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And I guess if 280 went away and there was foreseeability on that, it opens up a lot of cash or potential cash for these companies to spend. Yeah.
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I, I, look, I, I, I'm sure that Curaleaf is not the only company that wants to kick the tires on, you know, Canadian licensed producers, right?
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Um, you know, like, a, a lot of these businesses, they have a lot of waves coming over the bow. I know that's a bad metaphor, but, like, cannabis is a hard business to operate in.
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Um, I, you know, I don't know if they really have these sort of dedicated M&A teams that just spend all day looking at deals and thinking about strategy like, you know, a bigger consumer company would.
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At the same time, they are doing that, and, and it's obvious that, you know, the way Curaleaf talks about this deal, it would be very, you know, not to use a- Accretive...
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terrible business term, accretive to their business. Right. I know, I know you know where I was going with that.
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Um, it would be very accretive to their business and, and, you know, every, every MSO would be silly not to kick the tires a little bit.
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Um, you know, that being said- We're gonna start playing this, we're gonna start playing this song if you say accretive. [laughs] Yeah, good. Um, I won't use the word anymore.
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But, you know, the, the, the- We heard you... all that is to say, like- This is gonna be the new one we play. [siren] That's gonna be the accretive one. I don't know. [laughs] Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah.
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Um, the accretive whistle. Um- [laughs] Yeah, they, they'd be silly, they'd be silly not to kick the tires.
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Like, that, that, that's my whole point is, like, is, like, y- you should be evaluating every single deal that could make your business better if you are an executive at a company.
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Um, and these deals could certainly make both businesses better as long as it's agreed on. So, you know, we'll see what happens.
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Uh, I hope it goes on for a long time 'cause this is fun to watch frankly, and I like when CEOs are actually put on the spot to do normal things like talk to people. Yeah.
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Make a pitch that's not, that is, that is to retail investors and other investors too, that is, heartfelt is not the right word, but down to earth. Yeah.
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Let, let me, let me add one more comment on this, and I think especially in emerging industries like cannabis, I mean, you know, CEOs are, for all intents and purposes, like, they have platforms like, like congressmen used to, you know?
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And, and so, like, you, you are sort of a leader. Um, you need to be thinking about these things. You need to be thinking about how this represents on your industry, on your company, on your shareholders.
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Uh, and so, you know, I, I do think we are seeing that, um, you know, especially from Boris right now. You can sort of, you know, criticize his leadership style and the things he's doing of course.
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At the same time, he's, he's the one CEO who right now is saying, like, you know, "We are a representative of this industry.
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Let's be, you know, extremely aggressive with how we do things, and let's communicate the shit out of what we're doing." Um, and so, you know, I, I give kudos to that. Yeah. Me too, me too.
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And it was, it's, well, and it's fun to watch. Um- And fun to watch. [laughs] I, my winner of the week, um, I have two. One is, uh, no losers but winner of the weeks, but maybe I'll roll in a loser too.
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My winner of the week is Minnesota, which has had a, let's call it a, um, unique path, unique path to legalization. They had a very awkward medical program for a fairly long time.
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Um, they did legalize, but before they did that, they really sort of regulated sort of hemp-derived THC products, and they were available in breweries and other places.
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And it was the first place in the country that you could buy it in Total Wine, and it actually normalized, I think, a lot of what, uh, how, how we would think about a normalized hemp-derived THC beverage market.
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That said, they also have a $250 million in their first-year cannabis market, uh, regulated cannabis market. Mm-hmm.
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That's the first 12 months, 150 of which were adult use, 100 was medical, so still a pretty robust medical program.
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Even if the market stays $250 million or grows, I expect those numbers to shift dramatically towards recreational as it does in most markets.
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But kudos to that, uh, state, which has weathered the storm, but also, um, it was a bipartisan effort more or less to get it there. Uh, it did take some time, but it did get there.
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Shout out to Jason Tersek in Minnesota, formerly Minnesota Cannabis Law, now, um, [lip smack] uh, with Vicente. And the other one is Jim Higdon, uh, from Cornbread Hemp, who joined us- Yeah... uh, earlier in the week.
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I, first of all, I just, Jim's awesome, but also gave a real thoughtful approach to what regulating hemp products might be like and why he's in favor of that, what it actually means if the ban goes into effect in December, sort of real time jobs and what it means for his, um, operation- Mm-hmm...
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in Louisville. And everybody should check that out. It's on our YouTube page and our LinkedIn page as well, but a real thoughtful conversation, very thoughtful guy.
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Um, really a, a great and dynamic leader in that space, so shout out to him, um, for that as well. Yeah. So those are my two winners of the week. I don't have any losers, but mostly because the US Open is over,
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and there's nobody, nobody to complain about weed smell anymore. Yeah. [laughs] I did not want to see the winner of the US Open win, I'll just say that. That's fair. [laughs] But, but, uh, but it's, uh, oh, sorry.
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Let me do some plugs about us 'cause this is, now that it's just us- The men, the men's one. I wanna, I wanna clarify. Oh. But yes. Yeah, yeah.
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[laughs] Um, uh, we have an event coming up October 22nd in New York City, the second High Rise event. I just showed a little blip. You can find it, uh, in our newsletter for sure and on our website. Um, uh, that's one.
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October, you have to apply to attend. The application's fairly easy. It's, like, five, six questions. Takes about five minutes, but go to, uh, find the link, and I'll put it in the show notes. You can go find that.
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November 12th, we're gonna be in St. Louis for our second iteration of, uh, the Midwest Cannabis Forum. We're calling it Pot, Policy, and Politics.
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It happens right after the midterm elections, so we will unpack what that all means in a very dynamic market in Missouri at a very cool place, Second Shift Brewing, uh, with some, let's call them St.
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Louis-inspired surprises and treats if you attend. So there's a link there to that we're putting in partnership with Grown In. We will be in Las Vegas as well. You will learn more about that coming up.
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And then we will be in Buffalo, more details coming, but on December 17th. And if you want to meet Buffalo people, show up there December 17th because people in Buffalo like when you show up in winter, I know.
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We live down the street. We will be there. Uh, so that's, uh, all those things. And that's it for me, Jer. Anything else? I think that's it for me too, Jay. Okay. Good. Well- Yeah...
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for my Jewish friends, have an easy fast on Monday. Happy New Year to those that celebrate, and we will be back here next Friday with the whole crew. Thanks, Jer. Thanks, Jay.
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[upbeat music]
