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[upbeat music] Taste on your hands. I saw you. Taste on your hands. I saw you Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is This Week in Cannabis Live, where based on current viewership numbers,
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we've officially outdrawn the Republican midterm convec- convention. [laughs] I'd like to thank the GOP for setting the bar so high that we could clear it without even, uh, without even trying.
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[laughs] Uh, see, I told everybody before we went on I was going to start with a bad joke. I actually think it's a pretty good- It's so good. So good. That was pretty solid, actually. Yeah. Yeah. I'm laughing. Not bad.
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Not bad. Yeah. Thank you. [laughs] Um, uh, this week, uh, it's a good thing we brought a lawyer to this show. I wouldn't normally say that, but there's lots of cannabis law, late-breaking stuff happening in the industry.
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I'm going to show this tweet from Curaleaf CEO Boris Jordan, and then, um, Mark, you're going to give us the context of what happened.
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But it said, "Pleased with the outcome of this case, which is consistent with the position we've maintained throughout. We remain committed to supporting cannabis reform and continued progress toward legalization."
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Mark, you don't have to comment on what Boris Jordan said, but comment on what is happening and what the Sixth Circuit said. Well, [laughs] this is, it's just so good.
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It's, um, basically there's been this fear among cannabis lawyers for, I mean, like a decade now, um, that because that, that federal courts would not enforce cannabis contracts because cannabis is illegal, and there's this argument that, you know, there's a pretty well-established and understandable precedent that c- you know, federal courts cannot enforce an illegal contract, um, which makes, makes sense.
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Uh, and you know, early on, you know, about a decade ago, there were a few cases where courts were reluctant, but then, you know, federal courts were enforcing it, uh, until this, uh, you, we had this, uh, suit where Hello Farms in, uh, I think it was Michigan, is that right?
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Mm-hmm. Yep. Uh, sued Curaleaf for about $30 million, uh, in a jury trial in federal court.
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Uh, I don't know why they sued them in federal court, but, uh, after the jury verdict, uh, Curaleaf moved for, uh, a directed verdict to, and asked the court, then asked the court to, um, to throw out the verdict because cannabis is illegal, and the district court said, "No, we're not going to do that."
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So they then brought it to the appellate court.
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They hired, uh, probably one of the premier litigation firms in the country, Jenner & Block, to argue the appeal, and the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals agreed th- with, um, with the argument because they were right.
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You know, that cannabis is illegal and therefore this, uh, this jury verdict can't, uh, hold, which is, uh, you know, i- is the, uh, th- I believe the technical term is chutzpah.
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[laughs] Uh, you know, to bring this argument. [laughs] "Hey, we're all acting illegally. You can't enforce this." Um, I mean, it's, it, it's great. It's great because it just shows how dumb,
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you know, and insane all of this is. Uh, it, it's a huge problem for our industry.
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Uh, it's, um, it means that the lawyers should never, ever, ever bring a case in federal court again and just stay to, stay in state court. Um, i- this is a real problem.
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Um, but it's, you know, but it's just, uh, you know, I, I- it does, as a lawyer, as, as a, um, as a law nerd, it doesn't get any better than this. Um, good. Well, a cannabis law nerd and a law nerd.
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Literally you're- Cannabis law nerd. Yeah, yeah, that's fair... full double duty, Mark. That's fair. Uh, Ben, I follow you on LinkedIn, as everybody should.
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[laughs] Um, you have some thoughts, and they, they weren't even brief.
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But let's try to keep your thoughts brief on this subject, Ben, because anybody can find you on LinkedIn and read the f- read the full, the full rant. Yeah. I, I, so I'm not a cannabis law nerd.
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I, I, I am incredibly passionate about this industry and have been working to legitimize it for the last decade, and I'm pissed. I, I, I don't know. I, I, I, I [laughs]
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I'm going to go on a, uh, an F-bomb rant if I let myself go too loose. But like, seriously, like the, to, to... Like I don't know how this doesn't trigger the demise of, of Curaleaf.
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Like, who is going to want to do business with a company that is willing to call themselves illegal to get out of an obligation? And like, if I'm any farm, like these are farmers. Like I, I operate on the hemp side.
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Everyone knows. Like, like everyone wants to protect the farmers. Like are all of a sudden cannabis growers not farmers? Like w- how, how are we treating them like this?
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And, and how is this representative of anything that we want to be in this industry? Like we're trying to, to legalize. We're, we're, we're in Schedule III conversations.
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Curaleaf is on the board of the USCR, which is the most prominent voice in cannabis lobbying. Like this, it's shameful and, and I... It like pisses me off because I know about the concept of guilty by association.
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It doesn't take a lawyer to know that. And we are now all guilty because- [laughs]...
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fucking Curaleaf, uh, decided that it was easier to get out of something by calling themselves illegal than just doing the right thing. Yeah.
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We, we, we have a lot of, of mountains to climb as c- as the cannabis industry of de-stigmatizing and con- convincing people that we are not a black market and that we are running compliant businesses, and this just makes everybody look really bad.
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It, it's, it's really embarrassing. And- Um, Mark-...
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Curaleaf should pay their bills, and everyone should put them on COD today I mean, there was, y- I think in, for these exact sort of, like, internal policy reasons, there was sort of, uh, you know, I, I can't say this for sure, but to me, there was sort of this, this understanding of mutually assured destruction that no one- Hmm...
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would raise this defense. You'd sort of saw it pop up here and there. You know, MedMen raised it once with one of their, um, with one of their landlords, uh, though it never really sort of got adjudicated.
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You know, but it really wasn't raised much, um, you know, partly because contracts would include this language saying they wouldn't raise the defense.
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But, you know, but I guess this was a large enough verdict that the lawyers said, "Fuck it." Um, c- can we talk about the sort of downstream effects of this, Mark? Um, like, what does it all mean?
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Um, well, I mean, from a legal perspective, it means that within the Sixth Circuit, the, the courts that are within the Sixth Circuit, which is Michigan, um, I'm forgetting the others.
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I meant to look it up earlier, I apologize. But I, you know, eh, federal courts, you know, you basically can't bring this case in, uh, this kind of case in federal court.
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You're really gonna have to go back to state court. Yeah. Um, so it doesn't mean that contracts are all unenforceable. It just means, uh, you know, that, that you've got this, uh, this jurisdiction problem.
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But I, you know, I, I mean, I think Anna Ray and Ben just nailed it on the head.
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I think it's more of a, you know, a policy perspective, you know, of, of how are, you know, how is this going to affect, uh, you know, how people do business in this space. Um- Well, yeah.
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It, it, it, it will affect how people do business in this space. And, and yes, everyone should follow Mark's advice.
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You should go through all your contracts, pay special attention to the jurisdiction clauses, don't take things to federal court.
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And if you're a business that cares about this industry, like ours, um, I posted in our Slack today, it's like, I didn't think I would have to state this, but Vertosa will not be doing business with people that use that we're illegal as a defense to get out of a contract.
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Like, that, that should be a downstream effect. How realistic is that considering Curaleaf's size? I don't, well, uh, yeah, it's tough, right?
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Like, I admit, like, the, the built environment that, that regulators and policymakers have put us in makes that near impossible in some, some, some states.
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Like, the, like, that's why this limited license system that we all operate in is so broken.
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Like, it creates gatekeepers, and you can be as bad of an actor as you want, and people still need to work with you, and that's- Mm-hmm... messed up.
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There's, there's a lot of conversations in the industry right now about creditworthiness of, of businesses, and, and how much kind of our continued federal illegality and lack of access to conventional banking and credit ratings and all of those things, um, is making the business environment more challenging.
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And as more states are coming on, you're just seeing the same patterns repeat that have happened in more mature markets where certain companies have just stopped paying their bills, and then it creates this whole downstream effect.
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And, and, um, when we look at the way that the three-tier system was created in alcohol, um, you know, there's, there was reasons for that, and a lot of it had to do with payment terms and ensuring things got paid in a timely way.
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And in many of the states that cannabis has legalized, those types of protections haven't gone into place, um, to ensure that bills got paid in a timely way.
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And, and even if some states might have done something, it hasn't been enforced in, in a very proactive way.
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So this is the, another kind of nail in that coffin of like, "Oh, geez, it's just hard to do business in this space." And, and how can businesses look out and protect themselves, um, if, if a contract is meaningless?
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Um, yes, and, uh, two things. The Sixth Circuit is Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, and Tennessee, just for clarification purposes. But it wasn't the only court thing we heard about this week.
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Uh, the, uh, Mark, you wanna take the rescheduling one, too? [laughs] And then we'll go from there. [laughs] Because it seems like, uh, the federal court said that rescheduling could go forward- Well, yeah...
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sending a blow to MMJ Enterpr- what is it called? MMJ Enterprises, I think it's called. Tour, yeah. International. Yeah. And then, and, and- Those guys, those guys keep comment, commenting on everything.
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[laughs] I was like, "Who are these people?" Yeah. Like, Big Pharma has entered the chat. [laughs] Little Pharma has entered the chat. Little Pharma has entered the chat. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. Lord taste me.
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Um, thi- this one's a lot simpler.
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Basically, what the court said is that the court was, of the DC Circuit, the appellate court, was not going to temporarily put a stay on medical, uh, rescheduling pending the hear- you know, briefing an oral argument.
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Um, you know, so they, they hadn't ra- they hadn't sort of met the standard. So it doesn't mean that the court has, um, you know, blessed medical cannabis.
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Uh, you know, it, it's a good sign, but I wouldn't hang my hat on it. Uh, you know, so it just, it just kicks it down the road.
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What was really interest- what was interesting to me is that the, the case was filed in June, I think. June or July. Mm-hmm.
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I mean, that's a long time for this, you know, the court to wait on, you know, on a sort of an emergency basis. You know, uh, not emergency, but a, you know, an expedited basis to put a stay into place.
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Uh, whereas, um, the DC Circuit in the, uh, w- in the, in the case regarding medical, I'm sorry, Medicare and Medicaid covering hemp, uh, they, you know, they, they, uh, set up a, a, a, a briefing schedule immediately.
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So it was a little odd that it took them this long to basically say, "No," you know, "we're gonna wait." Yeah. Mark, can you read the, r- r- read the tea leaves a little bit. Like, is there, is there any m-...
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thing we can understand about how the court is looking at rescheduling because of this? Or is that, uh, you know, too much reading into what is just sort of a pause?
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I, I'm not an expert in, in this, i- in this area of, you know, sort of litigation and the like, so I don't wanna, uh, you know, so take my, my, uh, my viewpoint as sort of a q- with a bit of a grain of salt there.
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Uh, but I, or here, but I, you know, I, I mean, I think it bodes well that it w- there was nothing sort of patently obvious on its face- Mm-hmm... that, that, that caused this.
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Um, there may be a little bit of deference to a f- to a government agency here as well. Um, but, you know, but I, I think that there is, you know, the, the...
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Where I, and I think it shows that the, the issue is complicated enough, uh, that, that the court really wants to dig into it.
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Um, you know, so I think the chances of it succeeding got slightly better, uh, but it's st- you know, but it's still not zero. Right.
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I'm sorry, succeeding as in, um, uh, I should say, as in, uh, medical cont- you know, medical win- Yeah... in this case, not, uh, you know, not it getting, uh, kicked out, kicked down. So yeah.
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Um, Ben and Anna Ray, what, what are people on the ground saying? 'Cause Ben, you obviously have your ear to the ground in DC. Any, any update as this, as it pertains to this? Uh, it, it's no.
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You, you- I think people are like, are waiting on the ALJ stuff. Yeah.
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There's just so much that's happening with rescheduling and nothing at all, so everyone is waiting, but also just con- trying to continue to, to operate their business as per usual.
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I will say that I think it's kind of hilarious that a drug testing company, um, is, is trying to say that, that they need to get in the way of rescheduling because, because if drugs are legal, then they won't have as much drug testing to do, and they will be experiencing harm, and it's like, yeah, no shit, Sherlock.
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Uh, so [laughs] That sounds like- Yeah... the illegality defense. [laughs] I was just gonna say, yeah, it's about as cool as- You've made my business irrelevant... an illegal company fighting for legalization.
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[laughs] Um, can we shift for a second? 'Cause, uh, something caught my eye. Uh, the, uh, new... We're gonna shift to Virginia because new, I guess, draft regulations came out.
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Virginia's Cannabis Control Board released draft regulations for its recreational market, this was on Wednesday, under which the state's existing medical operators must pay a $10 million conversion fee payable over three years or shut down while everyone else goes through a lottery for 350 retail licenses.
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Um, this was interesting on several fronts, even in those few sentences. Um, one, Jeremy, you're gonna correct me if I'm wrong, I think this is the ex...
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It might have lifted language from the New York model where, um, one of RAs- Close. Yeah... had to pay $10 million to transfer over to the adult use market.
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And the other part, and Anna Ray, I want you to talk about it, is the sheer number of dispensaries they wanna have in Virginia. Those two things struck me.
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Um, uh, Jeremy, talk a little bit about that, 'cause this sort of held up, and there was lawsuits, and very angry Boris Jordan came on our show and talked about it.
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Um, he didn't say they were illegal at the time, but he did not like the fee they were gonna have to pay in New York. Yeah, look, I, I, I believe the New York fee was actually a little bit higher.
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It was $15 million, and there was a, there was a payout period. Um, but look, I mean, I, you know, I think two things are true here, right?
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One is that it is a high fee for access to the market and, and cannabis companies are generally pretty cash-strapped. But if you can pay it, it is a market of nine million people.
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You can immediately entrench your position. Um, these medical operators have their supply chain set up. So look, like,
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you know, if I was the CEO and I had the ability to do it, I would pay it, and I would rather just pay it than, than fight it out in court, right? Um, that being said, I'm not a CEO probably for that reason.
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At the same time, you know, I, I do think, like, this is a huge market. Um, we were talking before the show. It's, it's nine million people.
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Uh, you know, it, it, it's really useful to have that first mover advantage, especially because they're awarding 350 mil- th- sorry, 350 licenses for those nine million people, which is a lot of licenses.
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So it will be a competitive market. It's good to get in early.
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Um, and I think, you know, the fee, I, you know, it's not for me to judge if it's reasonable, but, like, there is a real business case for paying it, and you can think about, you know, the cash flow calculation.
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Like, there's a reason why it would make sense. Um, you know, I see why the regulators had it in there. You know, 10 million is high, um, but at the same time, if you can pay it, pay it.
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Anna Ray, what about the sheer number of dispensaries? Is that a lot, a little, somewhere in between? It's, it's a lot... or it's too early to tell? Yeah. I, I just ran some numbers comparing it to states close by.
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So at, at 350 dispensaries, uh, Virginia will be at more, a- about more than four dispensaries per 100,000 people.
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And, um, compared to Maryland, which is considered one of the best markets for dispensaries in the state because- Mm-hmm...
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the average dispensary is doing over $10 million per door, they have less than two dispensaries per 100,000, um, uh, population. And in Virginia, it's not just 350.
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The rules do, um, are tied to a 2028 cap that isn't permanent. So in 2028 it's supposed to be revisited and maybe more licenses could come online at that time.
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So they are looking to create a market that has a h- much higher density of stores, which is not always great for the market.
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You look at, um, Massachusetts also on the East Coast, and Massachusetts is closer to about five dispensaries per 100,000, so more than Virginia, and they're really struggling there. It's a tough market. Ben.
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If the metric is the success of the dispensary. Right. And I- I think as an industry, if we're going to- Yeah...
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survive and if we're going to reach the promised land, we need to start working away from the importance of measuring our success by the success of the dispensary. No offense to anyone that owns a dispensary or a chain.
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Well, the d- the, the dispensary has to stay in business. [laughs] They have to stay in business. So there's that too. True. But, like, we need, maybe need to, like, there's so much that needs to change, right?
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It's like when, when we started thinking about what the future of the cannabis industry looked like, like, 10 years ago- Mm-hmm... like, the majority of dispensaries were gonna be more akin to your corner liquor store.
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They weren't gonna be these massive, like, entities. And, like, there's only so many Starbucks, Pete's, that kind of stuff, right?
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Like, it's like we, we have everyone gunning to be the, the Veranos, the Vireos, the, the Curaleafs of the world, GTIs. Like, we, like, the, the,
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the importance [laughs] like, the, the stability of a, of, of an industry, yes, you need to have retailers, but we need to open up retail. Like, we need to create more access. We need more consumers consuming cannabis
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and at a reasonable price point that isn't getting taxed to high hell. And so I, there's, there's a whole lot baked in there.
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But, like, it, it just pains me that every time we talk about the health of a, of a, of a marketplace, we're talking about the, the dispensary revenue. And- Well, well that's all we got...
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that pains me because there's a lot of, there's a lot of oth- other operators in the supply chain.
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Well, I, I would even argue a different point, Ben, but I think similar, and that is if the government's goal, and we had this in Canada, and, and the only thing that,
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the only thing you can point to is the more, the easier the access for consumers, the faster the, the illicit market goes down, at least it has in Ontario, right?
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And if, if the faster it goes down is giving people more access, it actually means more dispensaries on more corners, as Ben, you're talking about.
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So if the government's policy goal is to drive down the illicit market, more dispensaries may be the answer to that, even though it's tough for each of those dispensaries.
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And then there is, of course, a cycle of opening and then closing, and we've had it in Ontario. We had massive proliferation and now, you know, a very painful right-sizing of that.
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And yes, dispensaries go out of business, and big ones get bigger because they have more longevity or can spend money. You know, they're, they're operating more efficiently or whatever it is. But
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I- identifying the policy goals of government is really important, to your point, Ben- Mm-hmm... because the policy goal may be inconsistent with the business goals of more dis- of dispensaries.
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Well, it, it's just crazy because the, the, I, I, I spend a lot of time thinking about prohibition naturally because I work in the beverage market.
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But, like, when we were coming out of prohibition, it wasn't like, "Oh, like, how do we control this through certain liquor stores?" Like, how valuable is Total Wine?
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It's like, it was all about the products that were being sold and eliminating the, the illicit market. And
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we s- we have a legal alcohol industry today that is continuing to grow and, I think, [laughs] um, well, continuing to try to grow and expand. And cannabis just- Mm-hmm...
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is, like, trying to break through, but, like, we're being forced into this completely different paradigm and it, and it really sucks- Yeah... for lack of a better technical term. Yeah.
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It's interesting also, aside from the fight about retail access and what is right and wrong, what we have in, in Virginia is this law that creates dispensaries and, and how they've chosen to even grant those 350 dispensaries because it is going to be a lottery.
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And there's basically three paths that states have taken when they are creating limited licenses. It's, it's either something like a lottery.
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It would be some sort of merit-based process where there would be some kind of competitive application that is judged on the merits of the applicants. That could be another.
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And then the, the third would be, like, a first come, first serve registration of who gets, gets there first. Mm-hmm.
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And, um, and it is considered to be the most fair, equitable, sort of blind to go with this lottery model. Um, but that doesn't always mean that the folks that win those licenses are the most qualified.
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And, and so it, it becomes this kind of interesting, um, also policy intention question, um, when the regulators are making choices to dole out licenses in one of these three paths. Yeah. Yeah.
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Uh, I, I would like to address, uh, one of our commenters throughout the show. Sure. So thank, thank you for watching and, and absolutely devoid in all these conversations are those that are being arrested still.
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Um, and so, like, when you have people representing the industry and trying to pull us into legalization, like, it's important that they aren't doing it just for profits, that we have a much larger duty on our shoulders.
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Amen. Um, are we ready to shift gears now that-- Well, I, I do like Ben shot out of a cannon on Friday at, uh, 9:00 AM Pacific Time. I do like, I like this Ben a lot. Um- [laughs] Copy.
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[laughs] This is, uh, cold brew, uh- [laughs]... uh, Ben, with a, with an extra shot in there. But I wanna shift to everybody's favorite part of the show, which is [cheering] [booing]
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There's already been some booing on the show. [laughs] So, um, Jeremy, we're gonna go to you. Winners, losers, what do you got? Sure.
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Um, a quick winner for me, um, we reported a lot on the, uh, per tag cost for metric, uh, the track and trace provider in New York. Um,
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a lot of dispensaries, uh, told Chris, one of our reporters, that, uh, this could add millions to their costs and could actually push some of them out of business, add a lot of supply chain chaos.
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New York will now pick up the tab for those tags. Um, I think that's a good policy. It's only for 12 months.
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Um, however, you know, hopefully it's sustainable long-term and can actually inject some, uh, uh, you know, goodwill into the track and trace system because there's a lot of problems with the rollout.
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Um, more of a fun loser, you know, football started. Patriots had an absolute meltdown. I'm sorry, Jay. Um, you know, if I was a Patriots fan, that would be horrible to watch.
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[laughs] Well, it's their, it's their second game in a row with a meltdown to the same team, just one happened to be the Super Bowl. Yeah. Yeah. And A.J.
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Brown and, you know, there's a lot, uh, there's a lot not to like about that, but, uh, that's [laughs] that'll be my loser for the week [laughs] I will say, Jeremy, on the metrics stuff, we actually have a webinar coming up on the 24th Yeah It's called, uh, Metrics Here, Now What?
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It's with our partners at Little Hertz. We got some people coming on to talk about how to make track and trace work for your cannabis business in New York. You can find that on our LinkedIn page. Ben, winners, losers?
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Ooh, uh, I'm gonna leave our pre- previous discussions out of this. Um, yeah, winner, uh, Anna Ray and I interviewed John Lafata from Big Oil Company earlier this week, and really impressed with their company.
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He's been a long time operator, Prop 215 on through now, never raised a dime, and has grown his company consistently in a challenging California market, and in the last couple years has even doubled his business.
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Um, and so just really impressed with how he has stuck to his guns in running a, an operationally efficient, uh, company. And just as a symbol of, of what you can do in a, in a challenging market.
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And on a loser, um, sorry, Marc, I, I preferred, uh, the Grateful Dead background and, I don't know, you got all professional on us. [laughs] He's got artwork and shit. [laughs] I was like, what is this?
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What is this guy? Where'd it come from? Sonoma? Wow. Soup. Wow. [laughs] Soup. I did not expect that. I did not expect that. Uh, Marc, winners, losers. Well, I'm the loser apparently.
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[laughs] Now, um, I, the loser here is Cookies, uh, with...
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And the winners are the, the PR firm that, that convinced Grawn and Red Tech to file a press release announcing their, you know, their, their win against, uh, because this is cannabis and you have to file a press release for everything.
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Um, Cookies lost a arbitration against Grawn and Red Tech for $61.5 million. Uh, it's a lot of money, uh, for, um, def- for le- you know, apparently defrauding investors and, uh, destroying evidence.
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Uh, that's, you know, it's just like there has been so much in this Cookies saga and it's really kind of remarkable to have watched it over the years. Yeah.
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Um, you know, I mean, they, you know, for one of the big, you know, one of the, one of the, the, it, what's interesting to me is the two, two of the biggest sort of well-known branded companies in this industry were Cookies and MedMen.
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You know, like that really had a, a, a name that everybody knew and, you know, and the two biggest ones it turned out to, you know, fall apart. First mover advantage. Kidding. Um [laughs] Anna Ray, you're up. Um, yeah.
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I've got, um, a winner and a loser. Uh, the winner I wanted to call out, um, the state governments who are filling their tax coffers with cannabis dollars.
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Uh, you guys reported I think we are at about $3.5 billion- Mm-hmm... in 2026- Yeah... direct to state governments in cannabis excise taxes.
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And as I was thinking about that number and the 30 plus billion dollar, um, market that that is coming from, um, I started really thinking too about the big loser in that being Visa and Mastercard that, um, would be- Hmm...
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very lucky to be also taking their piece of that market if they chose to participate, and instead are staying on the sidelines.
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And, uh, even this week came out through some type of lobbying group and said that, um, Schedule 3 will not be sufficient for them to be participating in payment processing in the space, and that they will be looking towards federal legalization before they choose to participate, um, in, in cannabis transactions.
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So big loser, Visa and Mastercard. Um, watch as the states rake it in. Uh, yes, and I think their, their, their argument is, "We're doing fine." I think that's their argument, is like, "We're doing..." Uh, that,
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that's- Get another 2% on the rest of the economy, so [laughs] it's okay. Pretty good break that they have. Okay, I have winners and losers this week, all come from Flushing, Queens, and that is the US Open.
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My loser of the week is, um,
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Aryna Sabalenka, who is quite a tennis player, who was complaining about cannabis smoke smell, uh, at, at the US Open, and, uh, tennis players are such, uh, delicate flowers that they can't actually- [laughs]...
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play tennis at the same time. In my mind, that's the only way to play tennis is to, like, smoke weed and play it. That aside, we did have on, um, Steven Gold this week. It was a mile away from the stadium.
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And- And he works... Hold on, let me pause this. He, he's working with Terpros- It was a mile away from-... which is in Queens, and they set up a whole operation to sell weed to people going to the US Open.
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Here's what he had to say. Mile away from the stadium. And we've been advertising online around the US Open time because there's always people that come into LaGuardia, JFK and, "Hey, where's the closest shop?"
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Come shop at Terpros, right? We took advantage of that early on and did a play on serving it up for the US Open. But now this is a layup, right?
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We see it in the news and so how do we leverage our products on the shelf to ensure that we're putting something fun together to make a play on it? So sure, you smell weed. Cool.
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What we're gonna do is we're gonna advertise edibles, right? Come up with some clever specials- [laughs]... like a single, a double, or a love.
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And we came up with a single, get 10% off edibles for the two weeks that the US Open's here. A double, get two packs for 15% off. And a love, where we're giving you a little something extra on top for damn near free.
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Y- you know, let me, let me, uh, let me say something. If the US Open would just offer a THC honey deuce, it would never smell like weed. So, you know, that's the, that's the regulation change we need right now.
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Yeah, this honey deuce is like $23. Like, it's outrageous. Uh- Put some THC in it, five milligrams. Perfect.
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[laughs] 'Cause people are gonna do that anyway, so maybe next year, Jeremy, you're gonna be in charge of lobbying, uh- That's right... uh, the stadium.
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Um, so those are my winners, losers week, all related to the US Open, which the finals I think are this weekend or Monday, um, or Sunday. Uh, so that is the end of this week's This Week in Cannabis Live.
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Anna Ray, Marc, Ben, and Jeremy, thanks for being here today. We'll be back next week, next Friday at noon Eastern, 9:00 Pacific. Um, hopefully we'll have just as much legal stuff to talk about, 'cause that is so fun.
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[laughs] Marc has nothing to say. Ben gets shot out of a cannon. Anna Ray, Jeremy, and I get to nod along and add our two cents, and we appreciate everybody. [laughs] We'll see everybody next week. Have a good weekend.
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Bye-bye. Hey. [upbeat rock music]
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[upbeat music] Taste on your hands. I saw you. Taste on your hands. I saw you Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is This Week in Cannabis Live, where based on current viewership numbers,
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we've officially outdrawn the Republican midterm convec- convention. [laughs] I'd like to thank the GOP for setting the bar so high that we could clear it without even, uh, without even trying.
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[laughs] Uh, see, I told everybody before we went on I was going to start with a bad joke. I actually think it's a pretty good- It's so good. So good. That was pretty solid, actually. Yeah. Yeah. I'm laughing. Not bad.
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Not bad. Yeah. Thank you. [laughs] Um, uh, this week, uh, it's a good thing we brought a lawyer to this show. I wouldn't normally say that, but there's lots of cannabis law, late-breaking stuff happening in the industry.
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I'm going to show this tweet from Curaleaf CEO Boris Jordan, and then, um, Mark, you're going to give us the context of what happened.
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But it said, "Pleased with the outcome of this case, which is consistent with the position we've maintained throughout. We remain committed to supporting cannabis reform and continued progress toward legalization."
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Mark, you don't have to comment on what Boris Jordan said, but comment on what is happening and what the Sixth Circuit said. Well, [laughs] this is, it's just so good.
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It's, um, basically there's been this fear among cannabis lawyers for, I mean, like a decade now, um, that because that, that federal courts would not enforce cannabis contracts because cannabis is illegal, and there's this argument that, you know, there's a pretty well-established and understandable precedent that c- you know, federal courts cannot enforce an illegal contract, um, which makes, makes sense.
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Uh, and you know, early on, you know, about a decade ago, there were a few cases where courts were reluctant, but then, you know, federal courts were enforcing it, uh, until this, uh, you, we had this, uh, suit where Hello Farms in, uh, I think it was Michigan, is that right?
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Mm-hmm. Yep. Uh, sued Curaleaf for about $30 million, uh, in a jury trial in federal court.
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Uh, I don't know why they sued them in federal court, but, uh, after the jury verdict, uh, Curaleaf moved for, uh, a directed verdict to, and asked the court, then asked the court to, um, to throw out the verdict because cannabis is illegal, and the district court said, "No, we're not going to do that."
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So they then brought it to the appellate court.
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They hired, uh, probably one of the premier litigation firms in the country, Jenner & Block, to argue the appeal, and the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals agreed th- with, um, with the argument because they were right.
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You know, that cannabis is illegal and therefore this, uh, this jury verdict can't, uh, hold, which is, uh, you know, i- is the, uh, th- I believe the technical term is chutzpah.
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[laughs] Uh, you know, to bring this argument. [laughs] "Hey, we're all acting illegally. You can't enforce this." Um, I mean, it's, it, it's great. It's great because it just shows how dumb,
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you know, and insane all of this is. Uh, it, it's a huge problem for our industry.
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Uh, it's, um, it means that the lawyers should never, ever, ever bring a case in federal court again and just stay to, stay in state court. Um, i- this is a real problem.
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Um, but it's, you know, but it's just, uh, you know, I, I- it does, as a lawyer, as, as a, um, as a law nerd, it doesn't get any better than this. Um, good. Well, a cannabis law nerd and a law nerd.
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Literally you're- Cannabis law nerd. Yeah, yeah, that's fair... full double duty, Mark. That's fair. Uh, Ben, I follow you on LinkedIn, as everybody should.
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[laughs] Um, you have some thoughts, and they, they weren't even brief.
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But let's try to keep your thoughts brief on this subject, Ben, because anybody can find you on LinkedIn and read the f- read the full, the full rant. Yeah. I, I, so I'm not a cannabis law nerd.
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I, I, I am incredibly passionate about this industry and have been working to legitimize it for the last decade, and I'm pissed. I, I, I don't know. I, I, I, I [laughs]
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I'm going to go on a, uh, an F-bomb rant if I let myself go too loose. But like, seriously, like the, to, to... Like I don't know how this doesn't trigger the demise of, of Curaleaf.
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Like, who is going to want to do business with a company that is willing to call themselves illegal to get out of an obligation? And like, if I'm any farm, like these are farmers. Like I, I operate on the hemp side.
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Everyone knows. Like, like everyone wants to protect the farmers. Like are all of a sudden cannabis growers not farmers? Like w- how, how are we treating them like this?
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And, and how is this representative of anything that we want to be in this industry? Like we're trying to, to legalize. We're, we're, we're in Schedule III conversations.
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Curaleaf is on the board of the USCR, which is the most prominent voice in cannabis lobbying. Like this, it's shameful and, and I... It like pisses me off because I know about the concept of guilty by association.
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It doesn't take a lawyer to know that. And we are now all guilty because- [laughs]...
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fucking Curaleaf, uh, decided that it was easier to get out of something by calling themselves illegal than just doing the right thing. Yeah.
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We, we, we have a lot of, of mountains to climb as c- as the cannabis industry of de-stigmatizing and con- convincing people that we are not a black market and that we are running compliant businesses, and this just makes everybody look really bad.
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It, it's, it's really embarrassing. And- Um, Mark-...
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Curaleaf should pay their bills, and everyone should put them on COD today I mean, there was, y- I think in, for these exact sort of, like, internal policy reasons, there was sort of, uh, you know, I, I can't say this for sure, but to me, there was sort of this, this understanding of mutually assured destruction that no one- Hmm...
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would raise this defense. You'd sort of saw it pop up here and there. You know, MedMen raised it once with one of their, um, with one of their landlords, uh, though it never really sort of got adjudicated.
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You know, but it really wasn't raised much, um, you know, partly because contracts would include this language saying they wouldn't raise the defense.
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But, you know, but I guess this was a large enough verdict that the lawyers said, "Fuck it." Um, c- can we talk about the sort of downstream effects of this, Mark? Um, like, what does it all mean?
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Um, well, I mean, from a legal perspective, it means that within the Sixth Circuit, the, the courts that are within the Sixth Circuit, which is Michigan, um, I'm forgetting the others.
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I meant to look it up earlier, I apologize. But I, you know, eh, federal courts, you know, you basically can't bring this case in, uh, this kind of case in federal court.
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You're really gonna have to go back to state court. Yeah. Um, so it doesn't mean that contracts are all unenforceable. It just means, uh, you know, that, that you've got this, uh, this jurisdiction problem.
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But I, you know, I, I mean, I think Anna Ray and Ben just nailed it on the head.
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I think it's more of a, you know, a policy perspective, you know, of, of how are, you know, how is this going to affect, uh, you know, how people do business in this space. Um- Well, yeah.
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It, it, it, it will affect how people do business in this space. And, and yes, everyone should follow Mark's advice.
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You should go through all your contracts, pay special attention to the jurisdiction clauses, don't take things to federal court.
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And if you're a business that cares about this industry, like ours, um, I posted in our Slack today, it's like, I didn't think I would have to state this, but Vertosa will not be doing business with people that use that we're illegal as a defense to get out of a contract.
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Like, that, that should be a downstream effect. How realistic is that considering Curaleaf's size? I don't, well, uh, yeah, it's tough, right?
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Like, I admit, like, the, the built environment that, that regulators and policymakers have put us in makes that near impossible in some, some, some states.
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Like, the, like, that's why this limited license system that we all operate in is so broken.
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Like, it creates gatekeepers, and you can be as bad of an actor as you want, and people still need to work with you, and that's- Mm-hmm... messed up.
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There's, there's a lot of conversations in the industry right now about creditworthiness of, of businesses, and, and how much kind of our continued federal illegality and lack of access to conventional banking and credit ratings and all of those things, um, is making the business environment more challenging.
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And as more states are coming on, you're just seeing the same patterns repeat that have happened in more mature markets where certain companies have just stopped paying their bills, and then it creates this whole downstream effect.
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And, and, um, when we look at the way that the three-tier system was created in alcohol, um, you know, there's, there was reasons for that, and a lot of it had to do with payment terms and ensuring things got paid in a timely way.
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And in many of the states that cannabis has legalized, those types of protections haven't gone into place, um, to ensure that bills got paid in a timely way.
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And, and even if some states might have done something, it hasn't been enforced in, in a very proactive way.
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So this is the, another kind of nail in that coffin of like, "Oh, geez, it's just hard to do business in this space." And, and how can businesses look out and protect themselves, um, if, if a contract is meaningless?
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Um, yes, and, uh, two things. The Sixth Circuit is Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, and Tennessee, just for clarification purposes. But it wasn't the only court thing we heard about this week.
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Uh, the, uh, Mark, you wanna take the rescheduling one, too? [laughs] And then we'll go from there. [laughs] Because it seems like, uh, the federal court said that rescheduling could go forward- Well, yeah...
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sending a blow to MMJ Enterpr- what is it called? MMJ Enterprises, I think it's called. Tour, yeah. International. Yeah. And then, and, and- Those guys, those guys keep comment, commenting on everything.
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[laughs] I was like, "Who are these people?" Yeah. Like, Big Pharma has entered the chat. [laughs] Little Pharma has entered the chat. Little Pharma has entered the chat. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. Lord taste me.
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Um, thi- this one's a lot simpler.
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Basically, what the court said is that the court was, of the DC Circuit, the appellate court, was not going to temporarily put a stay on medical, uh, rescheduling pending the hear- you know, briefing an oral argument.
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Um, you know, so they, they hadn't ra- they hadn't sort of met the standard. So it doesn't mean that the court has, um, you know, blessed medical cannabis.
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Uh, you know, it, it's a good sign, but I wouldn't hang my hat on it. Uh, you know, so it just, it just kicks it down the road.
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What was really interest- what was interesting to me is that the, the case was filed in June, I think. June or July. Mm-hmm.
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I mean, that's a long time for this, you know, the court to wait on, you know, on a sort of an emergency basis. You know, uh, not emergency, but a, you know, an expedited basis to put a stay into place.
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Uh, whereas, um, the DC Circuit in the, uh, w- in the, in the case regarding medical, I'm sorry, Medicare and Medicaid covering hemp, uh, they, you know, they, they, uh, set up a, a, a, a briefing schedule immediately.
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So it was a little odd that it took them this long to basically say, "No," you know, "we're gonna wait." Yeah. Mark, can you read the, r- r- read the tea leaves a little bit. Like, is there, is there any m-...
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thing we can understand about how the court is looking at rescheduling because of this? Or is that, uh, you know, too much reading into what is just sort of a pause?
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I, I'm not an expert in, in this, i- in this area of, you know, sort of litigation and the like, so I don't wanna, uh, you know, so take my, my, uh, my viewpoint as sort of a q- with a bit of a grain of salt there.
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Uh, but I, or here, but I, you know, I, I mean, I think it bodes well that it w- there was nothing sort of patently obvious on its face- Mm-hmm... that, that, that caused this.
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Um, there may be a little bit of deference to a f- to a government agency here as well. Um, but, you know, but I, I think that there is, you know, the, the...
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Where I, and I think it shows that the, the issue is complicated enough, uh, that, that the court really wants to dig into it.
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Um, you know, so I think the chances of it succeeding got slightly better, uh, but it's st- you know, but it's still not zero. Right.
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I'm sorry, succeeding as in, um, uh, I should say, as in, uh, medical cont- you know, medical win- Yeah... in this case, not, uh, you know, not it getting, uh, kicked out, kicked down. So yeah.
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Um, Ben and Anna Ray, what, what are people on the ground saying? 'Cause Ben, you obviously have your ear to the ground in DC. Any, any update as this, as it pertains to this? Uh, it, it's no.
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You, you- I think people are like, are waiting on the ALJ stuff. Yeah.
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There's just so much that's happening with rescheduling and nothing at all, so everyone is waiting, but also just con- trying to continue to, to operate their business as per usual.
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I will say that I think it's kind of hilarious that a drug testing company, um, is, is trying to say that, that they need to get in the way of rescheduling because, because if drugs are legal, then they won't have as much drug testing to do, and they will be experiencing harm, and it's like, yeah, no shit, Sherlock.
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Uh, so [laughs] That sounds like- Yeah... the illegality defense. [laughs] I was just gonna say, yeah, it's about as cool as- You've made my business irrelevant... an illegal company fighting for legalization.
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[laughs] Um, can we shift for a second? 'Cause, uh, something caught my eye. Uh, the, uh, new... We're gonna shift to Virginia because new, I guess, draft regulations came out.
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Virginia's Cannabis Control Board released draft regulations for its recreational market, this was on Wednesday, under which the state's existing medical operators must pay a $10 million conversion fee payable over three years or shut down while everyone else goes through a lottery for 350 retail licenses.
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Um, this was interesting on several fronts, even in those few sentences. Um, one, Jeremy, you're gonna correct me if I'm wrong, I think this is the ex...
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It might have lifted language from the New York model where, um, one of RAs- Close. Yeah... had to pay $10 million to transfer over to the adult use market.
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And the other part, and Anna Ray, I want you to talk about it, is the sheer number of dispensaries they wanna have in Virginia. Those two things struck me.
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Um, uh, Jeremy, talk a little bit about that, 'cause this sort of held up, and there was lawsuits, and very angry Boris Jordan came on our show and talked about it.
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Um, he didn't say they were illegal at the time, but he did not like the fee they were gonna have to pay in New York. Yeah, look, I, I, I believe the New York fee was actually a little bit higher.
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It was $15 million, and there was a, there was a payout period. Um, but look, I mean, I, you know, I think two things are true here, right?
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One is that it is a high fee for access to the market and, and cannabis companies are generally pretty cash-strapped. But if you can pay it, it is a market of nine million people.
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You can immediately entrench your position. Um, these medical operators have their supply chain set up. So look, like,
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you know, if I was the CEO and I had the ability to do it, I would pay it, and I would rather just pay it than, than fight it out in court, right? Um, that being said, I'm not a CEO probably for that reason.
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At the same time, you know, I, I do think, like, this is a huge market. Um, we were talking before the show. It's, it's nine million people.
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Uh, you know, it, it, it's really useful to have that first mover advantage, especially because they're awarding 350 mil- th- sorry, 350 licenses for those nine million people, which is a lot of licenses.
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So it will be a competitive market. It's good to get in early.
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Um, and I think, you know, the fee, I, you know, it's not for me to judge if it's reasonable, but, like, there is a real business case for paying it, and you can think about, you know, the cash flow calculation.
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Like, there's a reason why it would make sense. Um, you know, I see why the regulators had it in there. You know, 10 million is high, um, but at the same time, if you can pay it, pay it.
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Anna Ray, what about the sheer number of dispensaries? Is that a lot, a little, somewhere in between? It's, it's a lot... or it's too early to tell? Yeah. I, I just ran some numbers comparing it to states close by.
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So at, at 350 dispensaries, uh, Virginia will be at more, a- about more than four dispensaries per 100,000 people.
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And, um, compared to Maryland, which is considered one of the best markets for dispensaries in the state because- Mm-hmm...
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the average dispensary is doing over $10 million per door, they have less than two dispensaries per 100,000, um, uh, population. And in Virginia, it's not just 350.
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The rules do, um, are tied to a 2028 cap that isn't permanent. So in 2028 it's supposed to be revisited and maybe more licenses could come online at that time.
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So they are looking to create a market that has a h- much higher density of stores, which is not always great for the market.
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You look at, um, Massachusetts also on the East Coast, and Massachusetts is closer to about five dispensaries per 100,000, so more than Virginia, and they're really struggling there. It's a tough market. Ben.
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If the metric is the success of the dispensary. Right. And I- I think as an industry, if we're going to- Yeah...
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survive and if we're going to reach the promised land, we need to start working away from the importance of measuring our success by the success of the dispensary. No offense to anyone that owns a dispensary or a chain.
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Well, the d- the, the dispensary has to stay in business. [laughs] They have to stay in business. So there's that too. True. But, like, we need, maybe need to, like, there's so much that needs to change, right?
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It's like when, when we started thinking about what the future of the cannabis industry looked like, like, 10 years ago- Mm-hmm... like, the majority of dispensaries were gonna be more akin to your corner liquor store.
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They weren't gonna be these massive, like, entities. And, like, there's only so many Starbucks, Pete's, that kind of stuff, right?
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Like, it's like we, we have everyone gunning to be the, the Veranos, the Vireos, the, the Curaleafs of the world, GTIs. Like, we, like, the, the,
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the importance [laughs] like, the, the stability of a, of, of an industry, yes, you need to have retailers, but we need to open up retail. Like, we need to create more access. We need more consumers consuming cannabis
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and at a reasonable price point that isn't getting taxed to high hell. And so I, there's, there's a whole lot baked in there.
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But, like, it, it just pains me that every time we talk about the health of a, of a, of a marketplace, we're talking about the, the dispensary revenue. And- Well, well that's all we got...
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that pains me because there's a lot of, there's a lot of oth- other operators in the supply chain.
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Well, I, I would even argue a different point, Ben, but I think similar, and that is if the government's goal, and we had this in Canada, and, and the only thing that,
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the only thing you can point to is the more, the easier the access for consumers, the faster the, the illicit market goes down, at least it has in Ontario, right?
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And if, if the faster it goes down is giving people more access, it actually means more dispensaries on more corners, as Ben, you're talking about.
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So if the government's policy goal is to drive down the illicit market, more dispensaries may be the answer to that, even though it's tough for each of those dispensaries.
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And then there is, of course, a cycle of opening and then closing, and we've had it in Ontario. We had massive proliferation and now, you know, a very painful right-sizing of that.
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And yes, dispensaries go out of business, and big ones get bigger because they have more longevity or can spend money. You know, they're, they're operating more efficiently or whatever it is. But
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I- identifying the policy goals of government is really important, to your point, Ben- Mm-hmm... because the policy goal may be inconsistent with the business goals of more dis- of dispensaries.
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Well, it, it's just crazy because the, the, I, I, I spend a lot of time thinking about prohibition naturally because I work in the beverage market.
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But, like, when we were coming out of prohibition, it wasn't like, "Oh, like, how do we control this through certain liquor stores?" Like, how valuable is Total Wine?
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It's like, it was all about the products that were being sold and eliminating the, the illicit market. And
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we s- we have a legal alcohol industry today that is continuing to grow and, I think, [laughs] um, well, continuing to try to grow and expand. And cannabis just- Mm-hmm...
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is, like, trying to break through, but, like, we're being forced into this completely different paradigm and it, and it really sucks- Yeah... for lack of a better technical term. Yeah.
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It's interesting also, aside from the fight about retail access and what is right and wrong, what we have in, in Virginia is this law that creates dispensaries and, and how they've chosen to even grant those 350 dispensaries because it is going to be a lottery.
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And there's basically three paths that states have taken when they are creating limited licenses. It's, it's either something like a lottery.
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It would be some sort of merit-based process where there would be some kind of competitive application that is judged on the merits of the applicants. That could be another.
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And then the, the third would be, like, a first come, first serve registration of who gets, gets there first. Mm-hmm.
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And, um, and it is considered to be the most fair, equitable, sort of blind to go with this lottery model. Um, but that doesn't always mean that the folks that win those licenses are the most qualified.
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And, and so it, it becomes this kind of interesting, um, also policy intention question, um, when the regulators are making choices to dole out licenses in one of these three paths. Yeah. Yeah.
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Uh, I, I would like to address, uh, one of our commenters throughout the show. Sure. So thank, thank you for watching and, and absolutely devoid in all these conversations are those that are being arrested still.
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Um, and so, like, when you have people representing the industry and trying to pull us into legalization, like, it's important that they aren't doing it just for profits, that we have a much larger duty on our shoulders.
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Amen. Um, are we ready to shift gears now that-- Well, I, I do like Ben shot out of a cannon on Friday at, uh, 9:00 AM Pacific Time. I do like, I like this Ben a lot. Um- [laughs] Copy.
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[laughs] This is, uh, cold brew, uh- [laughs]... uh, Ben, with a, with an extra shot in there. But I wanna shift to everybody's favorite part of the show, which is [cheering] [booing]
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There's already been some booing on the show. [laughs] So, um, Jeremy, we're gonna go to you. Winners, losers, what do you got? Sure.
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Um, a quick winner for me, um, we reported a lot on the, uh, per tag cost for metric, uh, the track and trace provider in New York. Um,
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a lot of dispensaries, uh, told Chris, one of our reporters, that, uh, this could add millions to their costs and could actually push some of them out of business, add a lot of supply chain chaos.
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New York will now pick up the tab for those tags. Um, I think that's a good policy. It's only for 12 months.
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Um, however, you know, hopefully it's sustainable long-term and can actually inject some, uh, uh, you know, goodwill into the track and trace system because there's a lot of problems with the rollout.
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Um, more of a fun loser, you know, football started. Patriots had an absolute meltdown. I'm sorry, Jay. Um, you know, if I was a Patriots fan, that would be horrible to watch.
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[laughs] Well, it's their, it's their second game in a row with a meltdown to the same team, just one happened to be the Super Bowl. Yeah. Yeah. And A.J.
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Brown and, you know, there's a lot, uh, there's a lot not to like about that, but, uh, that's [laughs] that'll be my loser for the week [laughs] I will say, Jeremy, on the metrics stuff, we actually have a webinar coming up on the 24th Yeah It's called, uh, Metrics Here, Now What?
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It's with our partners at Little Hertz. We got some people coming on to talk about how to make track and trace work for your cannabis business in New York. You can find that on our LinkedIn page. Ben, winners, losers?
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Ooh, uh, I'm gonna leave our pre- previous discussions out of this. Um, yeah, winner, uh, Anna Ray and I interviewed John Lafata from Big Oil Company earlier this week, and really impressed with their company.
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He's been a long time operator, Prop 215 on through now, never raised a dime, and has grown his company consistently in a challenging California market, and in the last couple years has even doubled his business.
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Um, and so just really impressed with how he has stuck to his guns in running a, an operationally efficient, uh, company. And just as a symbol of, of what you can do in a, in a challenging market.
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And on a loser, um, sorry, Marc, I, I preferred, uh, the Grateful Dead background and, I don't know, you got all professional on us. [laughs] He's got artwork and shit. [laughs] I was like, what is this?
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What is this guy? Where'd it come from? Sonoma? Wow. Soup. Wow. [laughs] Soup. I did not expect that. I did not expect that. Uh, Marc, winners, losers. Well, I'm the loser apparently.
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[laughs] Now, um, I, the loser here is Cookies, uh, with...
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And the winners are the, the PR firm that, that convinced Grawn and Red Tech to file a press release announcing their, you know, their, their win against, uh, because this is cannabis and you have to file a press release for everything.
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Um, Cookies lost a arbitration against Grawn and Red Tech for $61.5 million. Uh, it's a lot of money, uh, for, um, def- for le- you know, apparently defrauding investors and, uh, destroying evidence.
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Uh, that's, you know, it's just like there has been so much in this Cookies saga and it's really kind of remarkable to have watched it over the years. Yeah.
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Um, you know, I mean, they, you know, for one of the big, you know, one of the, one of the, the, it, what's interesting to me is the two, two of the biggest sort of well-known branded companies in this industry were Cookies and MedMen.
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You know, like that really had a, a, a name that everybody knew and, you know, and the two biggest ones it turned out to, you know, fall apart. First mover advantage. Kidding. Um [laughs] Anna Ray, you're up. Um, yeah.
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I've got, um, a winner and a loser. Uh, the winner I wanted to call out, um, the state governments who are filling their tax coffers with cannabis dollars.
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Uh, you guys reported I think we are at about $3.5 billion- Mm-hmm... in 2026- Yeah... direct to state governments in cannabis excise taxes.
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And as I was thinking about that number and the 30 plus billion dollar, um, market that that is coming from, um, I started really thinking too about the big loser in that being Visa and Mastercard that, um, would be- Hmm...
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very lucky to be also taking their piece of that market if they chose to participate, and instead are staying on the sidelines.
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And, uh, even this week came out through some type of lobbying group and said that, um, Schedule 3 will not be sufficient for them to be participating in payment processing in the space, and that they will be looking towards federal legalization before they choose to participate, um, in, in cannabis transactions.
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So big loser, Visa and Mastercard. Um, watch as the states rake it in. Uh, yes, and I think their, their, their argument is, "We're doing fine." I think that's their argument, is like, "We're doing..." Uh, that,
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that's- Get another 2% on the rest of the economy, so [laughs] it's okay. Pretty good break that they have. Okay, I have winners and losers this week, all come from Flushing, Queens, and that is the US Open.
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My loser of the week is, um,
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Aryna Sabalenka, who is quite a tennis player, who was complaining about cannabis smoke smell, uh, at, at the US Open, and, uh, tennis players are such, uh, delicate flowers that they can't actually- [laughs]...
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play tennis at the same time. In my mind, that's the only way to play tennis is to, like, smoke weed and play it. That aside, we did have on, um, Steven Gold this week. It was a mile away from the stadium.
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And- And he works... Hold on, let me pause this. He, he's working with Terpros- It was a mile away from-... which is in Queens, and they set up a whole operation to sell weed to people going to the US Open.
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Here's what he had to say. Mile away from the stadium. And we've been advertising online around the US Open time because there's always people that come into LaGuardia, JFK and, "Hey, where's the closest shop?"
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Come shop at Terpros, right? We took advantage of that early on and did a play on serving it up for the US Open. But now this is a layup, right?
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We see it in the news and so how do we leverage our products on the shelf to ensure that we're putting something fun together to make a play on it? So sure, you smell weed. Cool.
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What we're gonna do is we're gonna advertise edibles, right? Come up with some clever specials- [laughs]... like a single, a double, or a love.
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And we came up with a single, get 10% off edibles for the two weeks that the US Open's here. A double, get two packs for 15% off. And a love, where we're giving you a little something extra on top for damn near free.
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Y- you know, let me, let me, uh, let me say something. If the US Open would just offer a THC honey deuce, it would never smell like weed. So, you know, that's the, that's the regulation change we need right now.
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Yeah, this honey deuce is like $23. Like, it's outrageous. Uh- Put some THC in it, five milligrams. Perfect.
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[laughs] 'Cause people are gonna do that anyway, so maybe next year, Jeremy, you're gonna be in charge of lobbying, uh- That's right... uh, the stadium.
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Um, so those are my winners, losers week, all related to the US Open, which the finals I think are this weekend or Monday, um, or Sunday. Uh, so that is the end of this week's This Week in Cannabis Live.
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Anna Ray, Marc, Ben, and Jeremy, thanks for being here today. We'll be back next week, next Friday at noon Eastern, 9:00 Pacific. Um, hopefully we'll have just as much legal stuff to talk about, 'cause that is so fun.
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[laughs] Marc has nothing to say. Ben gets shot out of a cannon. Anna Ray, Jeremy, and I get to nod along and add our two cents, and we appreciate everybody. [laughs] We'll see everybody next week. Have a good weekend.
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Bye-bye. Hey. [upbeat rock music]
