S2 Ep9 - Simplifying & Solving TD Bank's Data Management Challenges - Toronto Roadshow Event Recap
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You're listening to The Wilmac Wire, the podcast that's designed to give you a glimpse into a growing CCaaS company, specifically in the realm of customer interaction technology, from customer experience to data management.
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We'll talk about it here.
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Thank you for tuning in.
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Good morning.
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Good afternoon, good evening.
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Thank you for tuning in to this episode of The Wilmac Wire.
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My name is Emily Miller from Wilmac Technologies and today we've got an event recap for you.
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We hosted an event up in Toronto back in March called Simplifying and Solving TD Bank's Data Management Challenges.
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We like to call it our our roadshow event 'cause we went up to our Toronto office and we got to sit down and speak in a panel discussion with TD Bank, who is one of our continuity replay customers, specifically Bruno Meneses and Steve Chan from the TD Bank team who we work very closely with.
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And along with them on the panel we had Garry White who is Wilmac's Enterprise Information archiving Sales director.
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Beyond that, as as expected, yours truly, I moderated the conversation.
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In today's episode, you can expect to hear more about TD Bank and their data management challenges, the disparate systems that they were dealing with, the data locked and proprietary and encrypted formats, the strict retention regulations that they're subject to, and how they're trying to future proof their data management strategy in the future.
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And a big part of that is with Wilmac’s Continuity Replay.
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So you can expect to hear that as the main part of the conversation today.
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I will say that this episode is going to be a little bit longer than our normal episodes because it is the full recording of the event.
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So stick with us.
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There's a lot of great content in here.
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Again, I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
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It was a great, great event.
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I I've thoroughly enjoyed being there and being there in person, but I have to say it's it's a great listen afterwards.
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I hope you enjoy.
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Thanks.
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All right, well, thank you all for joining us tonight.
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We have a nice intimate group here.
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Please keep ordering drinks and eat food.
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I don't want to have to explain it.
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I take it back over the border.
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So to get things started though, we'll do some brief introductions.
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I'll give you some context.
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I will say we are going to have a fun little quiz at the end.
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So pay attention.
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There are prizes.
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And then we'll just get right into the the conversation with Gary, Bruno and Steven.
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So to start things off, my name is Emily Miller.
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I'm the director of marketing at Wilmac Technologies.
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I'm sure you all noticed my name in your inbox is Bruno.
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And Steven know for a fact that's true.
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I, I persistent when it comes to emails.
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So I hope you've been getting all the reminders from me.
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So on behalf of the marketing team, thank you for coming and our speakers today.
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First one is Bruno Meneses.
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He is the senior product manager at TD.
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Bruno, thanks for joining us.
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Next up, we have Steven Chan, the Senior Technology lead at TD sitting right next to me.
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And last but not least, we have Garry White, who's holding a small microphone from the, the team at Willmac Technologies.
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And he, he's worked with Bruno and Steven in the past.
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So that would be good for him to join the conversation today.
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So before we jump into the question, obviously most people in this room are dealing with similar challenges.
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You're subject to retention regulations for your customer interaction data for your call recording, emails, web chats, all that fun stuff.
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And from that stems other challenges.
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You have to keep that data, OK, you move to a new system.
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Well, now that data is siloed.
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How you how you access it is locked in proprietary and encrypted formats.
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How how you get it out of there.
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So, so we're going to talk more about that.
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That's kind of going to be the theme of our conversation tonight coming from the perspective of Bruno and Steven.
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And like I said, we want to bring someone in who's been through these challenges first hand and, and can share some and shed some light on how they're working through those challenges.
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So again, Bruno, Steven, thanks for joining us.
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So we're going to jump right in.
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We have 6 questions plans, then we'll have a light Q&A and then we'll jump into the quiz and then we'll be back to some networking.
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All right, So starting things off, what are the biggest challenges that you face in managing large volumes of data across diverse systems?
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Steven, we'll start with you on that one.
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Yeah, sure.
4:19
Thanks, Emily.
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Like as you kind of mentioned like oops TD Bank, we have like a lot of acquisitions over the last couple of years or even many other years.
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And the big challenge is like retention of the recordings for for them, right.
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Like you know, we bought MBNA 710 years ago.
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They were using nice format, we're using variant.
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So, you know, bringing them in variant usually cost an arm and a leg to to convert to their format.
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So the decision was OK, let's try to bring them in, let's in a generic format and and keep it in our big daily lake so that, you know, in the future if we keep on moving different platforms, it's, you know, all in a centralized location.
5:03
So, so that's, well, that's definitely a big challenge like trying to understand all the different formats, converting it and moving into our central location.
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Yeah, the other challenge, just the sheer amount of data TD, we like to keep our data for a very long time.
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So when we're trying to when we're trying to migrate data from our other systems into the one single platform, it's continues to be a challenge still to validate that we're we're getting all the recordings that we're actually have.
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Because, you know, when you're talking about millions and billions of recordings, it's kind of hard to manually count.
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So just trying to validate getting the the technical teams trying to validate that.
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Yeah, you know, from a compliance perspective, we have all the recordings and we're good to delete it from all the old locations.
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And then last but not least is, is timing.
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So transferring recordings from different systems takes a lot of time.
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It's not like files or databases where it's one shot.
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What we're finding is call recordings.
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They're all very small files, so transferring them, there's a lot of checksums in between for all the millions of files that are getting sent across.
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So it's, it's been taking us a very, a very long time.
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You know, we had like a petabyte of data.
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I think we're still at it.
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It's been probably a year and a half trying to, to transfer this, this data.
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So again, that's, that's a big challenge.
6:47
Would you say you had different retention policies depending on where the data came from, Steven?
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I'd say because we had a customer that had large amounts of data and what they found was they couldn't diversify that data or can understand where that data necessary was coming from.
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So they had basically their worst case scenario rule and how to apply that to everything.
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I think that was something that you had to achieve as well.
7:13
We are definitely like, you know, once we purchase a new business or whatever book of record, they do have their own kind of retention.
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And we do have to try to match it to our own and, and to your, your point where like, you know, we kind of go with the the worst case scenarios or even different, different industry, like we got your insurance, you got your wealth, you have your personal banking, you have your business banking.
7:37
Each area seems to have different guidelines that we need to eventually adjust to, right.
7:45
So quite a few things there.
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We got silo systems.
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You have different requirements along this different business units.
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Like you said, Steven, time is a limitation and just the sheer amount of data like moving that amount of data takes a lot of a lot of time now.
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So you guys nailed it.
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First question, OK, we'll move into that second question now.
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What are some of the specific compliance requirements that drive your data management decisions?
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So Steven, I'll pass that one to you first as well for sure.
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So PCI is one of our our primary ones.
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So big reasons why we try to consolidate our data is because we do have a lot of old antiquated systems and of course, you know, trying to purchase those other like businesses that we purchase as well.
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You know, we, we, we, we try to find a, a secure location for, for them, right.
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So moving it into, we ended up moving everything to our Azure portal into, again, the generic formats and to use continuity as a kind of playback system.
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It kind of helped us to, to meet our, our PCI compliancy because, you know, Azure is safe and secure.
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And then, you know, using that front end to, to repay that call.
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And then as as well, you know, at Bill 64, lot 25, I think it is.
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So that was a new regulation that the, the Quebec put in place.
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We're, we're still trying to figure it out ourselves, but we're now at least centralizing kind of all our data.
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So, you know, we can at least search for our data properly instead of, you know, trying to do set different policies on different systems.
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So, so big Bill 64 is going to be playing big in kind of our, our next chapter of our journey.
9:40
Yeah, I, I think PCI is a, a huge one.
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We see that quite often across other customers as well.
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And certainly to control the amount of data that they have to control in specific ways, there are lots of limitations because that data touches so many different systems and infrastructure that you manage to maintain.
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And I, I can certainly speak to one other project that we do as a customer, where in that case we actually had to explore and take their data away from their infrastructure and manage it completely separately because that gave them the controls to have the confidence that they were managing it more appropriately.
10:21
Certainly from our view, certainly my view within Wilmac is, you know, the compliance regulations are are tough to navigate and it's down to each of the companies to understand what what gives you the safety that you want.
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But it's our responsibility to listen to you and understand what are the controls that you need to feel safe to feel like you're compliant.
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And like you said, thankfully, you know, continuity gives you that flexibility to do that.
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Now, not completely there.
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And I'm sure it will evolve and it will continue to evolve of constant communication and it'll take a while.
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I don't think we'll ever 100% get there.
11:02
Yeah, yeah.
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But we have to be agile and quick enough to respond when we need to as well.
11:08
So yeah, one thing you touched on, like for example, our existing recording solutions, you know, previously like, yeah, the businesses like we have thousands, I'm sorry, thousands, maybe hundreds of people who have access to recordings, right?
11:25
So if we archived it in say like variant or or nice, they actually have access to all, you know, like 10 years of data or whatever that they have.
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So that's a risk as well, right?
11:37
Because, you know, from a PCI standpoint, they're only supposed to get access to the data that's kind of relevant to their role by by kind of trying to limit our duration online for our like variant systems, our existing systems, like we, we kind of limit their their access to like say one year's worth of data.
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We're trying to like get that shortened down.
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And then, you know, for the archive system, it's more, you know, restrictive on who has access to it.
12:04
Yeah, yeah.
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Where do you count the, where do you stand on kind of the capture side of things in terms of I'm assuming, I'm assuming you have PCI controls and it's pause and the tube perhaps or automatically blanketed from the recording.
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But do you have any kind of reduction controls internally as well or where do you kind of stand on that?
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We are working on that.
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Let's call it badly.
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Yeah, but four dot O kind of threw us a little spin to things.
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Yeah, DCI 4 dot O.
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So we are working trying to be as agile as possible and keeping our for our forward thinking mindset to kind of have the some of the technology solutions to redact and so forth.
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And that includes working with you guys because I think that area is an opportunity that we need to kind of work on.
12:54
Oh, absolutely.
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But yeah, PCI is a huge one.
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And you mentioned Bill 64 as well.
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I actually didn't, as you probably tell from my accent from the UKI didn't actually know what Bill 64 was.
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I had to Google it beforehand.
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But it's akin to GDPR in the UK about data controls, which is very, very prevalent, obviously about personal information and those types of things, which is equally important.
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But like you said, having that flexibility and agility to react both from a technology perspective and a process perspective, organization is, is very important.
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So great.
13:29
Yeah, thanks for sharing you guys.
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OK, we'll move into question three.
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Bruno, I'm going to toss this one to you after.
13:36
Fantastic.
13:38
So with evolving regulations, how do you ensure that TD remains agile and compliant in a complex regulatory landscape?
13:45
All right, so first of all, I want to give everyone a little bit more background on me.
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I come from telecommunications and there is not a regulatory problem there.
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It's really first one to market is the, the is the stream there and coming into the bank now I've been to the bank for a bit.
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I now have started to understand being federal federally regulated, how fun it is to adjust and and have so many audits and and so forth on you.
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So I want to kind of key things that I like I brought in is meeting with my key partners quite often is my one of my things I've kind of learned.
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So for my compliance, my risk teams, my data stewards, kind of keeping them involved and understanding the enhance of that.
14:40
I've also embedded in like we just went into agile.
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So we've kind of went from that whole waterfall to agile and so embedded that conversation with our product owners.
14:51
Keeping that compliance and and retention and risk and top of mind is also been something that we've been kind of more having conversations around.
15:01
And then at the same time, something we've touched base a little bit already right now is looking at the technologies and starting to understand how we can like look at some reduction, the keeping more more fluid and flexible.
15:17
I'll give you guys an example.
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Current solution, this PCI to four dot OO CV CVCVV reduction.
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So it's a 3 digit right.
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We had solutions in place that were reduce it, that were removing credit card and so forth.
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And when it came to like reducing CVV, we were reducing, we were reducing like addresses for example.
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And then our compliance partners when they were doing audits and so forth, it was a lot of miss areas.
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So it wasn't keeping the technology in mind for the future.
15:53
So was to be nibble nimble.
15:54
It seems like something else that I've been kind of running through to get into complimentary anything.
16:00
I miss Steven.
16:01
No, you're good.
16:02
No, I think we, we, we see that everyone we speak to and I think something we try to do at, at Womack and I know it's appreciated by many customers to be kind of play well with others, just put it that way.
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You kind of alluded to like they're nice And some of the traditional manufacturers, not all vendors play well with each other or not all have or technology doesn't necessarily allow for other technologies to make use of the data.
16:29
They perhaps hold it into themselves and not just about the data itself, but the actual applications and how they interact.
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And maybe there's not open APIs and those types of technology.
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And it's, it's, it's good to hear you say that you're focused on the technology because in reality, I think there's such complexity these days in how you interact with your customers, what you have to maintain internally from a security and regulatory perspective, the amount of regulations that you have to manage, the amount of lines of business you have to manage.
16:56
If all of your different technologies don't play well with each other, then you're kind of shoehorning yourselves as opposed to potential areas of conflict and mistake.
17:07
So certainly one of the emphasis is for us just to learn from that and try and play well with others, if that makes more sense.
17:14
So yeah, it's good to hear you say that.
17:16
Yeah, appreciate it.
17:18
Awesome.
17:19
All right, moving into our next question, what advice would you give other financial institutions in managing compliance and data governance effectively?
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See the funny part is that Wilmac thinks I can give other people advice.
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I was here, I signed up to get advice from other people that were around, not for me to give anybody else advice.
17:40
So let's put that straight out there first.
17:45
But I would say trying to be ahead of it, expect the unexpected on the regulations meet.
17:55
I, I was just talking to, to a few folks about like even being in these sessions and so forth, understanding like what are other people already anticipating from a regulations retention?
18:10
Are you seeing the industry go a certain direction, having that, that conversation when you're networking and then taking that back and being prepared to kind of get ahead of that.
18:21
I found very, very useful in, in my one or two year tenure of this lovely compliance and regulation experience.
18:31
The other piece I would say is keeping it, sorry, just want to make sure data governance.
18:39
The other piece I would have to say is going back to the technology and automations of Steve, Steven and I, we have a lot of conversations about this is we're we're we're very restricted on on our data retention policies within within the bank.
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And I love how sometimes these data owner data stewards come to these data owners and say, you know, I'm going to plot something like end of customer life plus eight years, then you can get rid of the data.
19:09
Fantastic.
19:10
So I'll go to Steven.
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How do I get that done?
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And Steven will come back to me and say that's not going to be easy.
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And so we're, we working with the working with our technology and teams and so forth and making sure our data stewards understand like there has to be a give and take is, is my key.
19:29
There has to be a fine line.
19:30
They have to understand, they don't understand all the time contact center business and so forth.
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They looking at it at an industry level and where we have to have a lot of that negotiation.
19:40
And I feel that that is also been a very helpful tip for myself to provide.
19:45
Yeah.
19:47
I mean certainly don't come to me for financial compliance, but as we no suggestions, no, I think you touched on it earlier about internal communication is very key within organizations involve all the stakeholders, involve the different business units, the different people that have my objectives to achieve and have a common objective and make sure everything's out on the table.
20:10
I think from a Willmac perspective as a vendor perspective to partner with you, it's our key responsibility to have external communication.
20:19
What I mean by that is to share with you networking events like this, connect our customers, connect our what we're seeing on the industry, what are other people doing, connect to people, like minded people.
20:31
And because like you said, you you learn more about not just internally, but also externally what are other people doing.
20:37
And it might not necessarily work for you, but at least you have and ideas to understand and connect with not just networking events like this, but larger conference events as well as more intimate meetings and those types of things.
20:50
So you talk about internal communication.
20:53
I think our responsibility or certainly my viewpoint on that is connecting like minded people and having an external communication, more community, I think it's powerful.
21:06
So yeah, even anything to add?
21:11
Yeah, I mean, just on the the retention Poly of what kind of Bruno mentioned, right.
21:15
Like, yeah, we, we are, we are struggling on on sometimes.
21:18
Like I think the legacy thinking was the interaction plus seven years or or seven years till the react retention ends with the customer.
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So we we never figured that out properly.
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So some people's mindset was like, oh, you might as well just keep it forever.
21:34
Is that in the sorry Steven, is that like on the insurance side?
21:37
But yeah, and I think that's what we were kind of settling on.
21:41
We're trying to get our compliance people to understand.
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But it's like, yeah, I think like banking, it's like, OK, seven years, but I think we're good 7 or 10 years.
21:49
And then insurance is for some reason, it's all very antiquated.
21:52
Like, why would you take like consent over the phone, right?
21:56
It's like, you know, have better ways to do it.
21:59
So that's the business to figure out.
22:00
But it's like for it seems like for insurance, it's like keeping forever almost, right?
22:06
So it's definitely, I think people, I think sometimes the, the compliance doesn't keep like the OR the business doesn't keep track track of the compliance, right?
22:16
Because in my opinion, like, you know, take some of this over paper and, and stuff and actually file it and don't take it in over recordings or, or, or things that are digital because it's so hard to, to start deleting.
22:28
But I guess that's a business process to it.
22:33
And I, I think that's where like I, I think at some point what we'll get to as well is that, yeah, like, you know, taking credit cards over the phone, it is antiquated, right?
22:43
Like, you know, there's like multi factor, like say like over the, in the, over the, your phone, right?
22:50
There's, there's better ways now I, I think to, to do this.
22:54
And, you know, I think companies need to evolve.
22:56
Yeah, I think that's a great point.
22:58
I think we're in such a a transitioning period of how people interact with the consumer.
23:04
I don't know if you echo that thought, but yeah, I can't remember the last time I gave my credit card details over the phone because there are a multitude of other ways I can interact with my bank organization or any organization in that sense.
23:17
So, but again, I suppose that comes back to the internal communication and understanding business processes, consumer change and aligning exactly.
23:25
And and that goes back to like negotiating with your business partners.
23:31
Right on, on.
23:33
Like what's out there?
23:34
Technology like this is causing us a headache, right?
23:38
From a compliance perspective, you know, here's our technology.
23:42
We can serve you.
23:44
Let's try it out, sample it.
23:45
Let's keep moving.
23:46
Like you got to push that needle sometimes because they don't realize, like our operation teams don't realize as much impact as on the compliance side then we do.
23:56
Yeah, I see what you mean.
23:57
Like this process is easy.
23:58
We've always done it this way.
23:59
Yeah.
23:59
Exactly or exactly the complex.
24:01
Yeah, with X amount of pain.
24:02
Yeah.
24:02
And isn't even needed anymore, which I'm sure is a question that may probably comes up with everyone in the room.
24:10
So interesting, Bernard, I just want to you, you're asking for advice from the group, but you just gave us some pretty good advice.
24:17
So thank you.
24:18
Nail that, nail that.
24:19
OK, serve that drink after this, by the way.
24:24
OK, moving into the next question guys, How has continuity replay impacted your data management and compliance strategy at TD?
24:32
Just to give some context, continuity replay, they refer to it a few times as continuity.
24:36
It's will Max product that the TD leverages to help with navigate the the challenges that we're talking about.
24:41
South Bruno, I'll direct that question to you to start off.
24:44
Yeah, so I think Steven kind of alluded we had a lot of acquisitions different I guess sequences of of instances of recording.
24:59
So where continuity has come and helped us is decrypting, getting all centralized, one location, everything good.
25:08
It's helped us kind of get our, our compliance officers kind of more aligned to understanding, you know, it's now removed from our or subject to removed from our variants and so forth and now going to be on our continuity platform with a limited restricted access, right.
25:30
So it keeps them at ease as that's restricted at this point as well.
25:36
It gives us audit capabilities, abilities to have selected users with accesses and so forth to to access their recordings limitations to what they're need, not the entire business.
25:49
So that's where continuity has been.
25:51
It's operationalized it like helped us operationalize it a little bit better than than having various systems and controlling it there.
26:01
That's where I would say right now continuity has been supporting us there for still opportunities.
26:08
I think we talked about it.
26:10
Yeah, I have AI have a note down on my hair saying it's not all sunshine and roses.
26:14
No, it's not all sunshine and roses.
26:17
Yeah, but we're our happy.
26:19
So just for everyone to be trying, I'm being very trusted.
26:22
I told these guys I'm not going to be here to.
26:24
It's not a sales pitch.
26:25
It's via their front end.
26:27
We're on a very old system.
26:28
We are in conversations of putting.
26:30
They've took a lot of our feedback and put it into a better or more suffice operationalized front end, but it has suffice for our.
26:40
But Harry here is my product owner who owns this asset and listens to our customers every day from our operations.
26:47
So we, we understand our challenges, but their own team have actually have heard and we're we're in the mix to get it in a better place.
26:56
And there's other things that we need to talk about like reduction of some sort, PCI and so forth.
27:00
But at this time we are, we are definitely more operationally efficient, not having in various areas all in one and very limited access to selected users.
27:13
Yeah, I, I, I would echo that.
27:15
I think there is no doubt that there is more you want to achieve with the platform and I think there's more that we want to deliver with the platform.
27:27
And as we kind of touched on a couple of times, we're going on that journey as partners together with TD to do so.
27:37
And it's important, like you said, that we listen to your challenges and and reflect that.
27:41
Yes, we solved some of the big pains and the big hurdles, but there's always more to to go through and improve on.
27:50
And that's the the journey that we want to go ahead.
27:51
Like I said, I don't think that journey is going to stop soon, which is a good thing because ultimately we're in the business to solve challenges.
27:59
And unfortunately in your business, challenges always present themselves.
28:05
So, yeah.
28:07
And I mean, and speaking to a consignity, again, it's not a sales pitch, but this kind of idea of centralizing your data and taking control of your data and knowing where it is and how to access it and being able to operate.
28:21
I can't say that right now operational.
28:25
Thank you.
28:28
Is is a powerful thing because the data has a value intrinsic value to the company and and usually for the 1st 12 to maybe 18 months that value is quality management WFO you know immediate reaction to the interaction with your customer perhaps or trading in this example and rectifying.
28:51
But after that point the value of that interaction becomes less not necessarily from a business perspective.
28:58
So it comes regulatory in compliance to the value you have to keep that data.
29:03
And therefore does it make sense to still utilize that in WFO platforms when you could make more sense of it either from a storage perspective and saving money on storage, having more control in the audit perspective where it is, you know, it makes more sense to take it out of those WFO platforms in many cases.
29:22
Certainly if you look at kind of transitioning to things like C CAS and storage in the cloud, obviously storing data in the cloud long term has costs associated with it.
29:33
You have your own storage mechanisms that you want to make use of.
29:38
Thank you, Gary for reminding me about the the storage.
29:41
Yeah, we're on a lot of on Prem and our permanent book record storage is on a cloud which we've saved quite a bit on operational costs and so forth.
29:51
So yes, we did actually get some savings over there as well centralizing it into there for sure.
29:57
But it's it's, yeah, like I said, giving customers the flexibility.
30:01
My tagline is always it's your data.
30:03
What do you want to do with it?
30:04
Where do you need to, how do you need to access it?
30:06
Who needs to access it?
30:07
What controls do you need to have one place with it?
30:10
And let's hopefully achieve those goals.
30:11
So that's my only sales case today.
30:13
So definitely, yeah.
30:17
And I think I, I saw a very common thread through kind of the last two questions going back to the community piece, the partnership piece, just keeping the conversation going because we're, you're not alone in dealing with these challenges.
30:29
So other people are dealing with it and handling it.
30:31
And it's good to to communicate based on that.
30:33
So, all right, anything else to add on this question?
30:36
No.
30:36
All right.
30:37
Good.
30:38
All right.
30:39
Last one, then we got prizes.
30:41
OK.
30:42
What trends do you see emerging in data management and compliance and how are you preparing to address them?
30:47
I'm not prepared for this one.
30:48
Are you?
30:49
Yeah.
30:50
OK.
30:52
Yeah.
30:53
I mean, like, like with everything else AI, right?
30:56
AI has been a huge AI net analytics, right?
30:59
So, you know, I kind of talk on two sides of my mouth and we're still trying to figure it out because we we say, OK, this is antiquated old data that we're trying to archive a historical.
31:09
But then, you know, now once we, you know, consolidate all the platforms to one spot, you know, the analytics teams and the AI teams come to us and say, oh, we want to start analyzing call recording because that's like, you know, the best thing to that's the best place to get a lot of data right in conversations.
31:30
So I think that's been a big trend for us.
31:33
So the traditional call recording platforms, I think they're still trying to work on the analytics, right?
31:42
Where there's other vendors like Microsoft, Google and smaller vendors are more nimble and they have a more, I guess refined analytics and an AI platform.
31:57
So you know, the plan.
32:00
So the plan is like, OK, once we have this centralized, then it's easy to say feed these big analytical engines or AI engines the data.
32:13
So I think that is a pattern we're trying to work through in the sense that right now continuity and stuff is more, I guess, historical based, right?
32:25
So the analytics is more based on historical and the AI is based on historical.
32:31
But of course, the businesses always try to run real time analytics and real time AI.
32:36
So our strategy are kind of like coming, like they're not matching, right?
32:44
They're butting heads.
32:46
So that's what we're trying to work out.
32:49
Yeah, I would echo that.
32:50
From what I've seen, see a lot of customers now try and bring out bring analytics in house utilizing engines as opposed to vendors, if that makes sense.
33:03
Rather than buying an analytics solution per SE and kind of making it try and fit in for your organization, they're taking kind of engines developed by the lots of people and those types of things and building their own analytics tools internally.
33:18
Also, you see, I know some of the vendors last year were put up in privacy issues and utilization of third party data when it's stored in the cloud or utilizing analytics engines and how that would feed into their AI models.
33:32
And I know there's a lot of nervousness about that, you know, is your data going to be used in other places?
33:37
And so again, that kind of feeds into the fact that a lot of people are bringing that in house, you know, like you said, create their own data lake, let's say, and and connect that engines into, in fact, both the data make use of it.
33:51
Also connected to that obviously is you kind of have a data link and that's all the data can be common normalized in a common model as well.
34:00
Otherwise it's siloed in that respect.
34:02
So yeah, definitely see that as well.
34:05
Yeah.
34:06
All right.
34:07
We're not anything there.
34:08
Nope, I'm good.
34:09
All right, easy enough then.
34:13
Any questions from the audience?
34:20
Yeah, you're not has any reconciliation.
34:24
How why are you sitting here?
34:26
You you moved and you normalize the historical data you're moving from the beginning of that you're capturing and moving greater now, right.
34:36
How do you make sure that everything was supposed to be captured, captured.
34:42
I'll let dare you ask a person if they have a tool.
34:47
Very good question.
34:50
It it, it all depends on the source system that you originally captured on.
34:55
And there are Ways and Means that we can do it today with certain systems, they need to be improved for sure.
35:03
It's a regular thing for us to say, OK, we, you know, we have certain controls on the application there.
35:10
But from a continuity perspective, you were supposed to receive 20,000 files today.
35:14
Did you receive 20,000 files today?
35:15
And that's, I'm simplifying it, but that's our the general ask, I suppose.
35:21
And it's something that we are improving on.
35:24
I would say we're not there yet to be frank, but we do have certain controls in place that kind of satisfy as an MVP viable, but that's not a good place to stay.
35:38
I think we want to improve on those.
35:40
And and you know, I'm looking at Bob, who's my head of development.
35:44
Yeah, about, you know, improving the audit trails, improving our capabilities in that space and improving the verification and consolidation is a regular ask for more of our customers.
35:56
So yeah, I can't give you like a yes or no answer based on necessarily a yes or no.
36:03
Yeah, we do have an outstanding.
36:05
Yeah, I, I mean from the like from the business perspective or the customer, we do, we still have that challenge, like we said, like billions of files.
36:15
So you know, we're getting manifest from like, you know, like, like our vendors say, OK, these are all the files that you're supposed to have.
36:24
And then we get manifest on our side and compare these are all the files we're supposed to have.
36:28
And then So what we tried that and then, you know, we're trying to right now, OK, we gotta make sure all the file sizes are on the right.
36:35
So now it's like you get the manifest as well as the file size.
36:38
So, so with that.
36:40
And then I think we still don't understand that gap because you have to convert them.
36:44
So it's like how many are actually like converting properly versus not.
36:49
So I think that's the more challenging one too.
36:51
So yeah, we'd like to definitely work further on that.
36:56
So we're still kind of on that journey.
36:58
But yeah, so to be honest, I think right now we're still keeping say, like the old Barent archive.
37:06
So we're kind of keeping 2 copies.
37:08
But at some time, it's going to be very unmanageable to keep so many different copies of the same file, right.
37:14
And so for the question, the experience, yes, Yeah, Cool.
37:26
Right, Yeah, I, I know NextEra very well actually.
37:31
Yeah.
37:32
Again, that depends on what you mean by reconciliation, because I know they're looking more at was a file actually was an interaction actually recorded and can you flag up if an interaction wasn't recorded?
37:45
Yeah, exactly.
37:46
We could you can be sure how you can capture this is the first step of the yeah, I I all my sins actually worked with mixed.
37:59
There are quite a lot in the UK.
38:00
I say for my sins.
38:01
Sorry, that's a joke, but middling success.
38:05
I think I certainly believe that's where the industry is going using AI tools of that nature to automate reconciliation and those types of things.
38:15
But you already touched them in this different environment.
38:17
So reconciliation for Steven on the contact center would mean something very different to trading for so and but I'd love to have that conversation after actually, because I don't think I can give you justice in this answer.
38:32
Sorry.
38:33
Yeah, go ahead.
38:34
So we've, we've spoken a lot or you've spoken a lot about legacy data and manipulation of legacy data from one format to another.
38:40
But is this solution also serving as your archive crops out legacy data?
38:45
And is it also serving into your archive of not legacy data, Encouraging.
38:54
Depends on which system, but yes, it would be, it has not exactly real time same day data, but previous day data.
39:02
It would have that archive there.
39:05
Yeah.
39:05
And chat, I think yeah, cuz we're doing multi channel now.
39:09
So chat is instantaneous, a couple hours, but like voice is like next day.
39:14
Yeah.
39:14
And that's where I was saying earlier that like our our strategies are kind of mixing with each other because originally it was only historical, right.
39:23
But now with all the emergence of AI, it's like, OK, like I want more like today's data or something like that then.
39:29
So then we keep on bringing the newest data in as well.
39:32
So it's kind of like a a mix and match right now.
39:35
Yeah.
39:35
Awesome.
39:39
Anyone else?
39:40
Obviously, we'll, we'll have time after this to chat so we can keep the conversation going.
39:44
I have a question.
39:46
So in your story, Bruno, sorry to call you out.
39:48
When you're talking about dropping your retention policy and that being difficult to enforce, can you talk a little bit about like what makes it difficult?
39:56
Is it an operational issue?
39:58
Is it a business requirements confusion?
40:01
Is it that you're trying to keep your, your storage consumption really low?
40:05
Like what, what leads to that person?
40:07
That's what I think on the storage consumption right now.
40:10
It's a it's the business.
40:12
And their operational needs example, I think like the life, life, life insurance policies, for example.
40:23
So like you're getting, you're getting, you're getting one area who is saying data retention is X.
40:30
But then you have your legal department who's like, no, I need those policies forever.
40:36
And so I'm trying to like coordinate who's like you guys got to understand.
40:40
And this is where the whole negotiation on that whole policy situation so that we can get that alignment so that we can, yeah, cuz the right hand doesn't speak to the left and you're kind of in the middle trying to push it there.
40:51
So I hope that I've got the detail.
40:53
Yeah, yeah, I can certainly stress that you're not alone in that.
40:56
Yeah.
40:56
No, no, I agree.
40:58
I think every organization we've worked with, there has been some debate to put it politely between different departments and how long it would be taken for and different lines of business.
41:09
So and certainly not learning that that challenge.
41:12
Good question.
41:16
OK, I'll move us.
41:17
You guys have anything else to share before we wrap up?
41:20
No, no, Thank you, Paul for all your insight.
41:22
Bruno, Steve and Garry, thank you guys for sharing today.
41:29
We'll be bringing on more food and drinks.
41:30
We'll be in here for a while.
41:31
So please, thank you, thank you for joining us for another episode of The Wilmac Wire.
41:40
Make sure you never miss an episode by subscribing on your favorite podcast platform or visiting our website at www.willmactech.com.
41:50
You can also watch the full video recordings of every episode on our YouTube channel.
41:56
Thank you for being a part of our community.
41:58
And again, thank you for listening to the Wilmac Wire.
0:02
You're listening to The Wilmac Wire, the podcast that's designed to give you a glimpse into a growing CCaaS company, specifically in the realm of customer interaction technology, from customer experience to data management.
0:16
We'll talk about it here.
0:18
Thank you for tuning in.
0:20
Good morning.
0:21
Good afternoon, good evening.
0:22
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of The Wilmac Wire.
0:26
My name is Emily Miller from Wilmac Technologies and today we've got an event recap for you.
0:32
We hosted an event up in Toronto back in March called Simplifying and Solving TD Bank's Data Management Challenges.
0:39
We like to call it our our roadshow event 'cause we went up to our Toronto office and we got to sit down and speak in a panel discussion with TD Bank, who is one of our continuity replay customers, specifically Bruno Meneses and Steve Chan from the TD Bank team who we work very closely with.
0:55
And along with them on the panel we had Garry White who is Wilmac's Enterprise Information archiving Sales director.
1:03
Beyond that, as as expected, yours truly, I moderated the conversation.
1:10
In today's episode, you can expect to hear more about TD Bank and their data management challenges, the disparate systems that they were dealing with, the data locked and proprietary and encrypted formats, the strict retention regulations that they're subject to, and how they're trying to future proof their data management strategy in the future.
1:27
And a big part of that is with Wilmac’s Continuity Replay.
1:30
So you can expect to hear that as the main part of the conversation today.
1:34
I will say that this episode is going to be a little bit longer than our normal episodes because it is the full recording of the event.
1:40
So stick with us.
1:41
There's a lot of great content in here.
1:43
Again, I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
1:45
It was a great, great event.
1:48
I I've thoroughly enjoyed being there and being there in person, but I have to say it's it's a great listen afterwards.
1:54
I hope you enjoy.
1:55
Thanks.
1:56
All right, well, thank you all for joining us tonight.
1:58
We have a nice intimate group here.
2:02
Please keep ordering drinks and eat food.
2:04
I don't want to have to explain it.
2:06
I take it back over the border.
2:09
So to get things started though, we'll do some brief introductions.
2:15
I'll give you some context.
2:17
I will say we are going to have a fun little quiz at the end.
2:20
So pay attention.
2:21
There are prizes.
2:23
And then we'll just get right into the the conversation with Gary, Bruno and Steven.
2:26
So to start things off, my name is Emily Miller.
2:29
I'm the director of marketing at Wilmac Technologies.
2:32
I'm sure you all noticed my name in your inbox is Bruno.
2:35
And Steven know for a fact that's true.
2:37
I, I persistent when it comes to emails.
2:39
So I hope you've been getting all the reminders from me.
2:42
So on behalf of the marketing team, thank you for coming and our speakers today.
2:48
First one is Bruno Meneses.
2:49
He is the senior product manager at TD.
2:53
Bruno, thanks for joining us.
2:55
Next up, we have Steven Chan, the Senior Technology lead at TD sitting right next to me.
3:00
And last but not least, we have Garry White, who's holding a small microphone from the, the team at Willmac Technologies.
3:08
And he, he's worked with Bruno and Steven in the past.
3:10
So that would be good for him to join the conversation today.
3:14
So before we jump into the question, obviously most people in this room are dealing with similar challenges.
3:20
You're subject to retention regulations for your customer interaction data for your call recording, emails, web chats, all that fun stuff.
3:27
And from that stems other challenges.
3:29
You have to keep that data, OK, you move to a new system.
3:32
Well, now that data is siloed.
3:33
How you how you access it is locked in proprietary and encrypted formats.
3:37
How how you get it out of there.
3:40
So, so we're going to talk more about that.
3:42
That's kind of going to be the theme of our conversation tonight coming from the perspective of Bruno and Steven.
3:49
And like I said, we want to bring someone in who's been through these challenges first hand and, and can share some and shed some light on how they're working through those challenges.
3:56
So again, Bruno, Steven, thanks for joining us.
3:59
So we're going to jump right in.
4:02
We have 6 questions plans, then we'll have a light Q&A and then we'll jump into the quiz and then we'll be back to some networking.
4:09
All right, So starting things off, what are the biggest challenges that you face in managing large volumes of data across diverse systems?
4:17
Steven, we'll start with you on that one.
4:19
Yeah, sure.
4:19
Thanks, Emily.
4:20
Like as you kind of mentioned like oops TD Bank, we have like a lot of acquisitions over the last couple of years or even many other years.
4:29
And the big challenge is like retention of the recordings for for them, right.
4:34
Like you know, we bought MBNA 710 years ago.
4:37
They were using nice format, we're using variant.
4:41
So, you know, bringing them in variant usually cost an arm and a leg to to convert to their format.
4:48
So the decision was OK, let's try to bring them in, let's in a generic format and and keep it in our big daily lake so that, you know, in the future if we keep on moving different platforms, it's, you know, all in a centralized location.
5:03
So, so that's, well, that's definitely a big challenge like trying to understand all the different formats, converting it and moving into our central location.
5:14
Yeah, the other challenge, just the sheer amount of data TD, we like to keep our data for a very long time.
5:23
So when we're trying to when we're trying to migrate data from our other systems into the one single platform, it's continues to be a challenge still to validate that we're we're getting all the recordings that we're actually have.
5:41
Because, you know, when you're talking about millions and billions of recordings, it's kind of hard to manually count.
5:46
So just trying to validate getting the the technical teams trying to validate that.
5:54
Yeah, you know, from a compliance perspective, we have all the recordings and we're good to delete it from all the old locations.
6:03
And then last but not least is, is timing.
6:06
So transferring recordings from different systems takes a lot of time.
6:12
It's not like files or databases where it's one shot.
6:17
What we're finding is call recordings.
6:20
They're all very small files, so transferring them, there's a lot of checksums in between for all the millions of files that are getting sent across.
6:31
So it's, it's been taking us a very, a very long time.
6:35
You know, we had like a petabyte of data.
6:37
I think we're still at it.
6:39
It's been probably a year and a half trying to, to transfer this, this data.
6:44
So again, that's, that's a big challenge.
6:47
Would you say you had different retention policies depending on where the data came from, Steven?
6:53
I'd say because we had a customer that had large amounts of data and what they found was they couldn't diversify that data or can understand where that data necessary was coming from.
7:04
So they had basically their worst case scenario rule and how to apply that to everything.
7:10
I think that was something that you had to achieve as well.
7:13
We are definitely like, you know, once we purchase a new business or whatever book of record, they do have their own kind of retention.
7:22
And we do have to try to match it to our own and, and to your, your point where like, you know, we kind of go with the the worst case scenarios or even different, different industry, like we got your insurance, you got your wealth, you have your personal banking, you have your business banking.
7:37
Each area seems to have different guidelines that we need to eventually adjust to, right.
7:45
So quite a few things there.
7:47
We got silo systems.
7:49
You have different requirements along this different business units.
7:52
Like you said, Steven, time is a limitation and just the sheer amount of data like moving that amount of data takes a lot of a lot of time now.
8:02
So you guys nailed it.
8:04
First question, OK, we'll move into that second question now.
8:11
What are some of the specific compliance requirements that drive your data management decisions?
8:16
So Steven, I'll pass that one to you first as well for sure.
8:19
So PCI is one of our our primary ones.
8:23
So big reasons why we try to consolidate our data is because we do have a lot of old antiquated systems and of course, you know, trying to purchase those other like businesses that we purchase as well.
8:39
You know, we, we, we, we try to find a, a secure location for, for them, right.
8:44
So moving it into, we ended up moving everything to our Azure portal into, again, the generic formats and to use continuity as a kind of playback system.
8:54
It kind of helped us to, to meet our, our PCI compliancy because, you know, Azure is safe and secure.
9:01
And then, you know, using that front end to, to repay that call.
9:06
And then as as well, you know, at Bill 64, lot 25, I think it is.
9:13
So that was a new regulation that the, the Quebec put in place.
9:18
We're, we're still trying to figure it out ourselves, but we're now at least centralizing kind of all our data.
9:23
So, you know, we can at least search for our data properly instead of, you know, trying to do set different policies on different systems.
9:33
So, so big Bill 64 is going to be playing big in kind of our, our next chapter of our journey.
9:40
Yeah, I, I think PCI is a, a huge one.
9:44
We see that quite often across other customers as well.
9:47
And certainly to control the amount of data that they have to control in specific ways, there are lots of limitations because that data touches so many different systems and infrastructure that you manage to maintain.
10:02
And I, I can certainly speak to one other project that we do as a customer, where in that case we actually had to explore and take their data away from their infrastructure and manage it completely separately because that gave them the controls to have the confidence that they were managing it more appropriately.
10:21
Certainly from our view, certainly my view within Wilmac is, you know, the compliance regulations are are tough to navigate and it's down to each of the companies to understand what what gives you the safety that you want.
10:35
But it's our responsibility to listen to you and understand what are the controls that you need to feel safe to feel like you're compliant.
10:45
And like you said, thankfully, you know, continuity gives you that flexibility to do that.
10:51
Now, not completely there.
10:52
And I'm sure it will evolve and it will continue to evolve of constant communication and it'll take a while.
11:00
I don't think we'll ever 100% get there.
11:02
Yeah, yeah.
11:04
But we have to be agile and quick enough to respond when we need to as well.
11:08
So yeah, one thing you touched on, like for example, our existing recording solutions, you know, previously like, yeah, the businesses like we have thousands, I'm sorry, thousands, maybe hundreds of people who have access to recordings, right?
11:25
So if we archived it in say like variant or or nice, they actually have access to all, you know, like 10 years of data or whatever that they have.
11:35
So that's a risk as well, right?
11:37
Because, you know, from a PCI standpoint, they're only supposed to get access to the data that's kind of relevant to their role by by kind of trying to limit our duration online for our like variant systems, our existing systems, like we, we kind of limit their their access to like say one year's worth of data.
11:56
We're trying to like get that shortened down.
11:58
And then, you know, for the archive system, it's more, you know, restrictive on who has access to it.
12:04
Yeah, yeah.
12:06
Where do you count the, where do you stand on kind of the capture side of things in terms of I'm assuming, I'm assuming you have PCI controls and it's pause and the tube perhaps or automatically blanketed from the recording.
12:18
But do you have any kind of reduction controls internally as well or where do you kind of stand on that?
12:25
We are working on that.
12:27
Let's call it badly.
12:30
Yeah, but four dot O kind of threw us a little spin to things.
12:33
Yeah, DCI 4 dot O.
12:34
So we are working trying to be as agile as possible and keeping our for our forward thinking mindset to kind of have the some of the technology solutions to redact and so forth.
12:47
And that includes working with you guys because I think that area is an opportunity that we need to kind of work on.
12:54
Oh, absolutely.
12:55
But yeah, PCI is a huge one.
12:58
And you mentioned Bill 64 as well.
12:59
I actually didn't, as you probably tell from my accent from the UKI didn't actually know what Bill 64 was.
13:05
I had to Google it beforehand.
13:07
But it's akin to GDPR in the UK about data controls, which is very, very prevalent, obviously about personal information and those types of things, which is equally important.
13:19
But like you said, having that flexibility and agility to react both from a technology perspective and a process perspective, organization is, is very important.
13:27
So great.
13:29
Yeah, thanks for sharing you guys.
13:32
OK, we'll move into question three.
13:35
Bruno, I'm going to toss this one to you after.
13:36
Fantastic.
13:38
So with evolving regulations, how do you ensure that TD remains agile and compliant in a complex regulatory landscape?
13:45
All right, so first of all, I want to give everyone a little bit more background on me.
13:49
I come from telecommunications and there is not a regulatory problem there.
13:54
It's really first one to market is the, the is the stream there and coming into the bank now I've been to the bank for a bit.
14:04
I now have started to understand being federal federally regulated, how fun it is to adjust and and have so many audits and and so forth on you.
14:18
So I want to kind of key things that I like I brought in is meeting with my key partners quite often is my one of my things I've kind of learned.
14:31
So for my compliance, my risk teams, my data stewards, kind of keeping them involved and understanding the enhance of that.
14:40
I've also embedded in like we just went into agile.
14:45
So we've kind of went from that whole waterfall to agile and so embedded that conversation with our product owners.
14:51
Keeping that compliance and and retention and risk and top of mind is also been something that we've been kind of more having conversations around.
15:01
And then at the same time, something we've touched base a little bit already right now is looking at the technologies and starting to understand how we can like look at some reduction, the keeping more more fluid and flexible.
15:17
I'll give you guys an example.
15:19
Current solution, this PCI to four dot OO CV CVCVV reduction.
15:26
So it's a 3 digit right.
15:27
We had solutions in place that were reduce it, that were removing credit card and so forth.
15:32
And when it came to like reducing CVV, we were reducing, we were reducing like addresses for example.
15:41
And then our compliance partners when they were doing audits and so forth, it was a lot of miss areas.
15:47
So it wasn't keeping the technology in mind for the future.
15:53
So was to be nibble nimble.
15:54
It seems like something else that I've been kind of running through to get into complimentary anything.
16:00
I miss Steven.
16:01
No, you're good.
16:02
No, I think we, we, we see that everyone we speak to and I think something we try to do at, at Womack and I know it's appreciated by many customers to be kind of play well with others, just put it that way.
16:15
You kind of alluded to like they're nice And some of the traditional manufacturers, not all vendors play well with each other or not all have or technology doesn't necessarily allow for other technologies to make use of the data.
16:29
They perhaps hold it into themselves and not just about the data itself, but the actual applications and how they interact.
16:34
And maybe there's not open APIs and those types of technology.
16:38
And it's, it's, it's good to hear you say that you're focused on the technology because in reality, I think there's such complexity these days in how you interact with your customers, what you have to maintain internally from a security and regulatory perspective, the amount of regulations that you have to manage, the amount of lines of business you have to manage.
16:56
If all of your different technologies don't play well with each other, then you're kind of shoehorning yourselves as opposed to potential areas of conflict and mistake.
17:07
So certainly one of the emphasis is for us just to learn from that and try and play well with others, if that makes more sense.
17:14
So yeah, it's good to hear you say that.
17:16
Yeah, appreciate it.
17:18
Awesome.
17:19
All right, moving into our next question, what advice would you give other financial institutions in managing compliance and data governance effectively?
17:30
See the funny part is that Wilmac thinks I can give other people advice.
17:33
I was here, I signed up to get advice from other people that were around, not for me to give anybody else advice.
17:40
So let's put that straight out there first.
17:45
But I would say trying to be ahead of it, expect the unexpected on the regulations meet.
17:55
I, I was just talking to, to a few folks about like even being in these sessions and so forth, understanding like what are other people already anticipating from a regulations retention?
18:10
Are you seeing the industry go a certain direction, having that, that conversation when you're networking and then taking that back and being prepared to kind of get ahead of that.
18:21
I found very, very useful in, in my one or two year tenure of this lovely compliance and regulation experience.
18:31
The other piece I would say is keeping it, sorry, just want to make sure data governance.
18:39
The other piece I would have to say is going back to the technology and automations of Steve, Steven and I, we have a lot of conversations about this is we're we're we're very restricted on on our data retention policies within within the bank.
18:54
And I love how sometimes these data owner data stewards come to these data owners and say, you know, I'm going to plot something like end of customer life plus eight years, then you can get rid of the data.
19:09
Fantastic.
19:10
So I'll go to Steven.
19:12
How do I get that done?
19:14
And Steven will come back to me and say that's not going to be easy.
19:17
And so we're, we working with the working with our technology and teams and so forth and making sure our data stewards understand like there has to be a give and take is, is my key.
19:29
There has to be a fine line.
19:30
They have to understand, they don't understand all the time contact center business and so forth.
19:34
They looking at it at an industry level and where we have to have a lot of that negotiation.
19:40
And I feel that that is also been a very helpful tip for myself to provide.
19:45
Yeah.
19:47
I mean certainly don't come to me for financial compliance, but as we no suggestions, no, I think you touched on it earlier about internal communication is very key within organizations involve all the stakeholders, involve the different business units, the different people that have my objectives to achieve and have a common objective and make sure everything's out on the table.
20:10
I think from a Willmac perspective as a vendor perspective to partner with you, it's our key responsibility to have external communication.
20:19
What I mean by that is to share with you networking events like this, connect our customers, connect our what we're seeing on the industry, what are other people doing, connect to people, like minded people.
20:31
And because like you said, you you learn more about not just internally, but also externally what are other people doing.
20:37
And it might not necessarily work for you, but at least you have and ideas to understand and connect with not just networking events like this, but larger conference events as well as more intimate meetings and those types of things.
20:50
So you talk about internal communication.
20:53
I think our responsibility or certainly my viewpoint on that is connecting like minded people and having an external communication, more community, I think it's powerful.
21:06
So yeah, even anything to add?
21:11
Yeah, I mean, just on the the retention Poly of what kind of Bruno mentioned, right.
21:15
Like, yeah, we, we are, we are struggling on on sometimes.
21:18
Like I think the legacy thinking was the interaction plus seven years or or seven years till the react retention ends with the customer.
21:28
So we we never figured that out properly.
21:30
So some people's mindset was like, oh, you might as well just keep it forever.
21:34
Is that in the sorry Steven, is that like on the insurance side?
21:37
But yeah, and I think that's what we were kind of settling on.
21:41
We're trying to get our compliance people to understand.
21:43
But it's like, yeah, I think like banking, it's like, OK, seven years, but I think we're good 7 or 10 years.
21:49
And then insurance is for some reason, it's all very antiquated.
21:52
Like, why would you take like consent over the phone, right?
21:56
It's like, you know, have better ways to do it.
21:59
So that's the business to figure out.
22:00
But it's like for it seems like for insurance, it's like keeping forever almost, right?
22:06
So it's definitely, I think people, I think sometimes the, the compliance doesn't keep like the OR the business doesn't keep track track of the compliance, right?
22:16
Because in my opinion, like, you know, take some of this over paper and, and stuff and actually file it and don't take it in over recordings or, or, or things that are digital because it's so hard to, to start deleting.
22:28
But I guess that's a business process to it.
22:33
And I, I think that's where like I, I think at some point what we'll get to as well is that, yeah, like, you know, taking credit cards over the phone, it is antiquated, right?
22:43
Like, you know, there's like multi factor, like say like over the, in the, over the, your phone, right?
22:50
There's, there's better ways now I, I think to, to do this.
22:54
And, you know, I think companies need to evolve.
22:56
Yeah, I think that's a great point.
22:58
I think we're in such a a transitioning period of how people interact with the consumer.
23:04
I don't know if you echo that thought, but yeah, I can't remember the last time I gave my credit card details over the phone because there are a multitude of other ways I can interact with my bank organization or any organization in that sense.
23:17
So, but again, I suppose that comes back to the internal communication and understanding business processes, consumer change and aligning exactly.
23:25
And and that goes back to like negotiating with your business partners.
23:31
Right on, on.
23:33
Like what's out there?
23:34
Technology like this is causing us a headache, right?
23:38
From a compliance perspective, you know, here's our technology.
23:42
We can serve you.
23:44
Let's try it out, sample it.
23:45
Let's keep moving.
23:46
Like you got to push that needle sometimes because they don't realize, like our operation teams don't realize as much impact as on the compliance side then we do.
23:56
Yeah, I see what you mean.
23:57
Like this process is easy.
23:58
We've always done it this way.
23:59
Yeah.
23:59
Exactly or exactly the complex.
24:01
Yeah, with X amount of pain.
24:02
Yeah.
24:02
And isn't even needed anymore, which I'm sure is a question that may probably comes up with everyone in the room.
24:10
So interesting, Bernard, I just want to you, you're asking for advice from the group, but you just gave us some pretty good advice.
24:17
So thank you.
24:18
Nail that, nail that.
24:19
OK, serve that drink after this, by the way.
24:24
OK, moving into the next question guys, How has continuity replay impacted your data management and compliance strategy at TD?
24:32
Just to give some context, continuity replay, they refer to it a few times as continuity.
24:36
It's will Max product that the TD leverages to help with navigate the the challenges that we're talking about.
24:41
South Bruno, I'll direct that question to you to start off.
24:44
Yeah, so I think Steven kind of alluded we had a lot of acquisitions different I guess sequences of of instances of recording.
24:59
So where continuity has come and helped us is decrypting, getting all centralized, one location, everything good.
25:08
It's helped us kind of get our, our compliance officers kind of more aligned to understanding, you know, it's now removed from our or subject to removed from our variants and so forth and now going to be on our continuity platform with a limited restricted access, right.
25:30
So it keeps them at ease as that's restricted at this point as well.
25:36
It gives us audit capabilities, abilities to have selected users with accesses and so forth to to access their recordings limitations to what they're need, not the entire business.
25:49
So that's where continuity has been.
25:51
It's operationalized it like helped us operationalize it a little bit better than than having various systems and controlling it there.
26:01
That's where I would say right now continuity has been supporting us there for still opportunities.
26:08
I think we talked about it.
26:10
Yeah, I have AI have a note down on my hair saying it's not all sunshine and roses.
26:14
No, it's not all sunshine and roses.
26:17
Yeah, but we're our happy.
26:19
So just for everyone to be trying, I'm being very trusted.
26:22
I told these guys I'm not going to be here to.
26:24
It's not a sales pitch.
26:25
It's via their front end.
26:27
We're on a very old system.
26:28
We are in conversations of putting.
26:30
They've took a lot of our feedback and put it into a better or more suffice operationalized front end, but it has suffice for our.
26:40
But Harry here is my product owner who owns this asset and listens to our customers every day from our operations.
26:47
So we, we understand our challenges, but their own team have actually have heard and we're we're in the mix to get it in a better place.
26:56
And there's other things that we need to talk about like reduction of some sort, PCI and so forth.
27:00
But at this time we are, we are definitely more operationally efficient, not having in various areas all in one and very limited access to selected users.
27:13
Yeah, I, I, I would echo that.
27:15
I think there is no doubt that there is more you want to achieve with the platform and I think there's more that we want to deliver with the platform.
27:27
And as we kind of touched on a couple of times, we're going on that journey as partners together with TD to do so.
27:37
And it's important, like you said, that we listen to your challenges and and reflect that.
27:41
Yes, we solved some of the big pains and the big hurdles, but there's always more to to go through and improve on.
27:50
And that's the the journey that we want to go ahead.
27:51
Like I said, I don't think that journey is going to stop soon, which is a good thing because ultimately we're in the business to solve challenges.
27:59
And unfortunately in your business, challenges always present themselves.
28:05
So, yeah.
28:07
And I mean, and speaking to a consignity, again, it's not a sales pitch, but this kind of idea of centralizing your data and taking control of your data and knowing where it is and how to access it and being able to operate.
28:21
I can't say that right now operational.
28:25
Thank you.
28:28
Is is a powerful thing because the data has a value intrinsic value to the company and and usually for the 1st 12 to maybe 18 months that value is quality management WFO you know immediate reaction to the interaction with your customer perhaps or trading in this example and rectifying.
28:51
But after that point the value of that interaction becomes less not necessarily from a business perspective.
28:58
So it comes regulatory in compliance to the value you have to keep that data.
29:03
And therefore does it make sense to still utilize that in WFO platforms when you could make more sense of it either from a storage perspective and saving money on storage, having more control in the audit perspective where it is, you know, it makes more sense to take it out of those WFO platforms in many cases.
29:22
Certainly if you look at kind of transitioning to things like C CAS and storage in the cloud, obviously storing data in the cloud long term has costs associated with it.
29:33
You have your own storage mechanisms that you want to make use of.
29:38
Thank you, Gary for reminding me about the the storage.
29:41
Yeah, we're on a lot of on Prem and our permanent book record storage is on a cloud which we've saved quite a bit on operational costs and so forth.
29:51
So yes, we did actually get some savings over there as well centralizing it into there for sure.
29:57
But it's it's, yeah, like I said, giving customers the flexibility.
30:01
My tagline is always it's your data.
30:03
What do you want to do with it?
30:04
Where do you need to, how do you need to access it?
30:06
Who needs to access it?
30:07
What controls do you need to have one place with it?
30:10
And let's hopefully achieve those goals.
30:11
So that's my only sales case today.
30:13
So definitely, yeah.
30:17
And I think I, I saw a very common thread through kind of the last two questions going back to the community piece, the partnership piece, just keeping the conversation going because we're, you're not alone in dealing with these challenges.
30:29
So other people are dealing with it and handling it.
30:31
And it's good to to communicate based on that.
30:33
So, all right, anything else to add on this question?
30:36
No.
30:36
All right.
30:37
Good.
30:38
All right.
30:39
Last one, then we got prizes.
30:41
OK.
30:42
What trends do you see emerging in data management and compliance and how are you preparing to address them?
30:47
I'm not prepared for this one.
30:48
Are you?
30:49
Yeah.
30:50
OK.
30:52
Yeah.
30:53
I mean, like, like with everything else AI, right?
30:56
AI has been a huge AI net analytics, right?
30:59
So, you know, I kind of talk on two sides of my mouth and we're still trying to figure it out because we we say, OK, this is antiquated old data that we're trying to archive a historical.
31:09
But then, you know, now once we, you know, consolidate all the platforms to one spot, you know, the analytics teams and the AI teams come to us and say, oh, we want to start analyzing call recording because that's like, you know, the best thing to that's the best place to get a lot of data right in conversations.
31:30
So I think that's been a big trend for us.
31:33
So the traditional call recording platforms, I think they're still trying to work on the analytics, right?
31:42
Where there's other vendors like Microsoft, Google and smaller vendors are more nimble and they have a more, I guess refined analytics and an AI platform.
31:57
So you know, the plan.
32:00
So the plan is like, OK, once we have this centralized, then it's easy to say feed these big analytical engines or AI engines the data.
32:13
So I think that is a pattern we're trying to work through in the sense that right now continuity and stuff is more, I guess, historical based, right?
32:25
So the analytics is more based on historical and the AI is based on historical.
32:31
But of course, the businesses always try to run real time analytics and real time AI.
32:36
So our strategy are kind of like coming, like they're not matching, right?
32:44
They're butting heads.
32:46
So that's what we're trying to work out.
32:49
Yeah, I would echo that.
32:50
From what I've seen, see a lot of customers now try and bring out bring analytics in house utilizing engines as opposed to vendors, if that makes sense.
33:03
Rather than buying an analytics solution per SE and kind of making it try and fit in for your organization, they're taking kind of engines developed by the lots of people and those types of things and building their own analytics tools internally.
33:18
Also, you see, I know some of the vendors last year were put up in privacy issues and utilization of third party data when it's stored in the cloud or utilizing analytics engines and how that would feed into their AI models.
33:32
And I know there's a lot of nervousness about that, you know, is your data going to be used in other places?
33:37
And so again, that kind of feeds into the fact that a lot of people are bringing that in house, you know, like you said, create their own data lake, let's say, and and connect that engines into, in fact, both the data make use of it.
33:51
Also connected to that obviously is you kind of have a data link and that's all the data can be common normalized in a common model as well.
34:00
Otherwise it's siloed in that respect.
34:02
So yeah, definitely see that as well.
34:05
Yeah.
34:06
All right.
34:07
We're not anything there.
34:08
Nope, I'm good.
34:09
All right, easy enough then.
34:13
Any questions from the audience?
34:20
Yeah, you're not has any reconciliation.
34:24
How why are you sitting here?
34:26
You you moved and you normalize the historical data you're moving from the beginning of that you're capturing and moving greater now, right.
34:36
How do you make sure that everything was supposed to be captured, captured.
34:42
I'll let dare you ask a person if they have a tool.
34:47
Very good question.
34:50
It it, it all depends on the source system that you originally captured on.
34:55
And there are Ways and Means that we can do it today with certain systems, they need to be improved for sure.
35:03
It's a regular thing for us to say, OK, we, you know, we have certain controls on the application there.
35:10
But from a continuity perspective, you were supposed to receive 20,000 files today.
35:14
Did you receive 20,000 files today?
35:15
And that's, I'm simplifying it, but that's our the general ask, I suppose.
35:21
And it's something that we are improving on.
35:24
I would say we're not there yet to be frank, but we do have certain controls in place that kind of satisfy as an MVP viable, but that's not a good place to stay.
35:38
I think we want to improve on those.
35:40
And and you know, I'm looking at Bob, who's my head of development.
35:44
Yeah, about, you know, improving the audit trails, improving our capabilities in that space and improving the verification and consolidation is a regular ask for more of our customers.
35:56
So yeah, I can't give you like a yes or no answer based on necessarily a yes or no.
36:03
Yeah, we do have an outstanding.
36:05
Yeah, I, I mean from the like from the business perspective or the customer, we do, we still have that challenge, like we said, like billions of files.
36:15
So you know, we're getting manifest from like, you know, like, like our vendors say, OK, these are all the files that you're supposed to have.
36:24
And then we get manifest on our side and compare these are all the files we're supposed to have.
36:28
And then So what we tried that and then, you know, we're trying to right now, OK, we gotta make sure all the file sizes are on the right.
36:35
So now it's like you get the manifest as well as the file size.
36:38
So, so with that.
36:40
And then I think we still don't understand that gap because you have to convert them.
36:44
So it's like how many are actually like converting properly versus not.
36:49
So I think that's the more challenging one too.
36:51
So yeah, we'd like to definitely work further on that.
36:56
So we're still kind of on that journey.
36:58
But yeah, so to be honest, I think right now we're still keeping say, like the old Barent archive.
37:06
So we're kind of keeping 2 copies.
37:08
But at some time, it's going to be very unmanageable to keep so many different copies of the same file, right.
37:14
And so for the question, the experience, yes, Yeah, Cool.
37:26
Right, Yeah, I, I know NextEra very well actually.
37:31
Yeah.
37:32
Again, that depends on what you mean by reconciliation, because I know they're looking more at was a file actually was an interaction actually recorded and can you flag up if an interaction wasn't recorded?
37:45
Yeah, exactly.
37:46
We could you can be sure how you can capture this is the first step of the yeah, I I all my sins actually worked with mixed.
37:59
There are quite a lot in the UK.
38:00
I say for my sins.
38:01
Sorry, that's a joke, but middling success.
38:05
I think I certainly believe that's where the industry is going using AI tools of that nature to automate reconciliation and those types of things.
38:15
But you already touched them in this different environment.
38:17
So reconciliation for Steven on the contact center would mean something very different to trading for so and but I'd love to have that conversation after actually, because I don't think I can give you justice in this answer.
38:32
Sorry.
38:33
Yeah, go ahead.
38:34
So we've, we've spoken a lot or you've spoken a lot about legacy data and manipulation of legacy data from one format to another.
38:40
But is this solution also serving as your archive crops out legacy data?
38:45
And is it also serving into your archive of not legacy data, Encouraging.
38:54
Depends on which system, but yes, it would be, it has not exactly real time same day data, but previous day data.
39:02
It would have that archive there.
39:05
Yeah.
39:05
And chat, I think yeah, cuz we're doing multi channel now.
39:09
So chat is instantaneous, a couple hours, but like voice is like next day.
39:14
Yeah.
39:14
And that's where I was saying earlier that like our our strategies are kind of mixing with each other because originally it was only historical, right.
39:23
But now with all the emergence of AI, it's like, OK, like I want more like today's data or something like that then.
39:29
So then we keep on bringing the newest data in as well.
39:32
So it's kind of like a a mix and match right now.
39:35
Yeah.
39:35
Awesome.
39:39
Anyone else?
39:40
Obviously, we'll, we'll have time after this to chat so we can keep the conversation going.
39:44
I have a question.
39:46
So in your story, Bruno, sorry to call you out.
39:48
When you're talking about dropping your retention policy and that being difficult to enforce, can you talk a little bit about like what makes it difficult?
39:56
Is it an operational issue?
39:58
Is it a business requirements confusion?
40:01
Is it that you're trying to keep your, your storage consumption really low?
40:05
Like what, what leads to that person?
40:07
That's what I think on the storage consumption right now.
40:10
It's a it's the business.
40:12
And their operational needs example, I think like the life, life, life insurance policies, for example.
40:23
So like you're getting, you're getting, you're getting one area who is saying data retention is X.
40:30
But then you have your legal department who's like, no, I need those policies forever.
40:36
And so I'm trying to like coordinate who's like you guys got to understand.
40:40
And this is where the whole negotiation on that whole policy situation so that we can get that alignment so that we can, yeah, cuz the right hand doesn't speak to the left and you're kind of in the middle trying to push it there.
40:51
So I hope that I've got the detail.
40:53
Yeah, yeah, I can certainly stress that you're not alone in that.
40:56
Yeah.
40:56
No, no, I agree.
40:58
I think every organization we've worked with, there has been some debate to put it politely between different departments and how long it would be taken for and different lines of business.
41:09
So and certainly not learning that that challenge.
41:12
Good question.
41:16
OK, I'll move us.
41:17
You guys have anything else to share before we wrap up?
41:20
No, no, Thank you, Paul for all your insight.
41:22
Bruno, Steve and Garry, thank you guys for sharing today.
41:29
We'll be bringing on more food and drinks.
41:30
We'll be in here for a while.
41:31
So please, thank you, thank you for joining us for another episode of The Wilmac Wire.
41:40
Make sure you never miss an episode by subscribing on your favorite podcast platform or visiting our website at www.willmactech.com.
41:50
You can also watch the full video recordings of every episode on our YouTube channel.
41:56
Thank you for being a part of our community.
41:58
And again, thank you for listening to the Wilmac Wire.
