Seek understanding

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Welcome back to The Comfy Chairs, a podcast from
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123 Limited. This is your host, Kate. Amber Johnson,
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a leadership coach and consultant who relies
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on the principles of appreciative inquiry and
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values -driven leadership to help clients uncover
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uncommon insight, is back for another conversation
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in The Comfy Chairs. When Amber joined me this
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spring, we discussed the use of questions as
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a leadership tool. Today, we will narrow our
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focus to understand how leaders and employees
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can leverage questioning skills and techniques
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to enhance learning. Questions are an integral
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part of any learning experience, whether in formal
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settings or casual interactions. Learners and
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teachers all know that the right question can
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unlock knowledge, wisdom, and growth. Welcome
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back to the Comfy Chairs, Amber. Thank you for
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coming out to play again. As always, I do like
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to let my guests have a moment to introduce themselves,
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so please. It's so great to be back here, Kate.
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Thank you for inviting me. And great to chat
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with your folks again, too. I am a Chicago -based
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leadership consultant and communications person.
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And my real passion is helping executives and
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leaders figure out what is going on. And there's
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big questions in that. But, you know, we've got
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to figure out there's these thorny situations.
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How do we mediate that? How do we resolve the
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tensions? How do we get people aligned? And how
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do we bring people along in our processes and
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in their own development? And one of the great
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joys in my life right now, I'm working on a TEDx
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talk that I get to give in a couple of weeks.
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And I don't know if you've ever worked with it
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or if any of your listeners have, but they make
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you choose a job title and it can't be like.
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consultant, it has to be something interesting.
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And so my title for TEDx is that I am an inquiry
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architect. And I just absolutely love that. I'd
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like t shirts that say inquiry architect. But
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the idea is that really, I just help people write
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the questions that they're going to ask of themselves
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and their colleagues and their friends to help
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them think a little differently about the work
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and the life they do in the life they lead. Questions
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are So I am a big proponent of curiosity, and
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I think questions are the currency of being a
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curious person. And coaching people to ask better
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questions, I think is, frankly, I think it's
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a bit of a superpower and also an underused technique
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in coaching and in learning, frankly. We tend
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to ask questions of people rather than letting
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the learner be the question asker. That's sort
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of the traditional teacher at the front of the
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classroom model. And there's so much research
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trying to show that that's not really applicable
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for us anymore. The ways that we teach, not just
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at the elementary or even collegiate level, but
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in the classrooms that we have in our workplaces.
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we have opportunities to do different as the
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world keeps changing around us. Absolutely. So
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I know that saying that questions are important
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to learning is more than a little bit obvious.
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But I do want to start with that idea to examine
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why questions matter. And what exactly is it
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about a good question that can lead to lasting
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learning? So what are your thoughts, ma 'am?
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Yeah, one of the folks I often quote is William
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Isaacs. He's an MIT professor. He wrote the book
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Dialogue, which is one of my favorite books on
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communication and conversation. And he says the
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most important parts of any conversation are
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the part neither party could have imagined at
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the start. And the thing is, if I am always asking
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questions that I know the answer to, how are
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you? How is work? I know exactly the script that
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you're going to give me. But if I take time to
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ask a question I don't know the answer to, that
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leads us into the most important parts of the
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conversation. And so I think one of our most
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essential qualities as teachers, as leaders,
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as educators, as parents, as friends, is to have
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the predictable questions and ask questions that
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you don't know the answer to. Humbly ask questions
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you don't know the answer to, because that's
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when you're going to reach that unexpected point
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of learning. Let's go through the exercise of
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defining what a powerful question is or isn't.
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Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. So I think
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first and maybe most obvious is powerful questions
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are open questions rather than being closed and
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predictable. That's the very first thing. But
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open to closed or closed to open is a continuum.
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And the wider open we can push it, the more unexpected
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we get. So do you like books is a closed question
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with yes, no as an answer. What is your favorite
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book is an open question, but it's going to give
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you one title. What do you like about fantasy
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books or what makes for a strong character? That
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is going to tell you something more about the
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person you're talking with. It'll give you a
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predictive quality, too, of whether you should
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make a recommendation or whether you have something
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in common or whether you might learn from something
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that you might not. So we have to think of closed
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to open as a continuum and not satisfy ourself
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with any question that can't be answered with
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yes or no, but really push it open to how do
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I get to something less expected? So I'd say
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that's the first quality of a powerful question
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is really focusing on something that is beyond,
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that isn't closed, something that's wider open.
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I think a next quality is focusing on questions
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that are positive. When I say positive, you may
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think that are only about the rosy things, only
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about the good things. I don't mean positive
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in that Pollyannish sense. I mean it in the generative
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sense. In what my line of work, we might say
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the appreciative sense. I mean positive in it's
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helping us move towards the future. And it is
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assuming the best. It's showing positive regard.
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to the other person. So is that what you're wearing
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is a question, but it's got a lot of tone in
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it, right? It doesn't show positive regard. And
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by the same token, if you and I worked for the
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same company and we put an event on last night
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and it didn't go so great. And I said, well,
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what didn't work last night? That's actually
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a useful, it's, we need that information. But
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a more powerful question might be to say, if
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we were going to do this again, what would we
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do differently? How would we make this even better?
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Because then it's framed in the positive. It's
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framed for the benefit of the future. And it
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removes our reflexive defensiveness from the
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conversation and allows us and gives us freedom.
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to reimagine and so that's one of the great things
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that powerful questions do yeah i'm going to
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flip things around a little bit i know in my
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notes that i shared with you i wanted to talk
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about appreciative inquiry as kind of a a coda
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if you will um to bring us home but i think because
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you've started introducing some of the things
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that are vital to appreciative inquiry. I'd like
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to go ahead and go there now. I am, I'm very
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novice in the practice. I've studied a little
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bit. It's not something that I use regularly.
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So I know just enough to be dangerous. I would
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like to defer to you because I know it is part
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of how you coach and consult. So can you tell
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us a little bit? kind of the Cliff Notes version
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of Appreciative Inquiry. And then we can kind
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of explore what role it can play for us when
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we want to be learning. Appreciative inquiry
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is a organizational change and leadership development
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process that came out of Case Western Reserve
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University in the late 1980s and has been used
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across the world in organizations and in the
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lives of individuals ever since. I have used
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it in conversation with one person at the dinner
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table, and I've used it with a thousand people
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in a diffused environment where we were never
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in the same room together. And I've used it with
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200 people in the same room together. It can
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be used in so many different formats. But when
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it comes to appreciative inquiry, you can also
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kind of think it as a cheat code to asking a
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good question because there's a pattern that
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appreciative inquiry follows and three types
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of questions that are very, very common in an
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appreciative inquiry process. Before I can tell
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you those questions, though, I have to give you
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a couple of principles. And this goes back to
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your earlier question about what makes for a
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powerful question. I think these qualities make
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for a powerful question as well. So three principles
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of appreciative inquiry. The first is the appreciation
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principle. That means we are going to ask about
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when we are at our best. So think about appreciation
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in the sense of how a home appreciates in value
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or a good bottle of wine appreciates in value.
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It grows over time and the assets are there,
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are true, are part of its DNA. So we want to
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always ask questions about when we're at our
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best around whatever work, whatever topic we're
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discussing, what's true, because the qualities
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you surface there are what you want to carry
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forward. The second principle is the inquire
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principle, which is to remember to actually use
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questions. So often we just sort of come in with
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a discussion with a topic, but we don't actually
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inquire. And in appreciative inquiry in particular,
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we believe our questions are fateful. And I'll
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give you a very quick example of this. If I asked
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you, Kate, are you tired today? You would do
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this like fast scan of your body and be like,
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oh. Yes, I didn't. I haven't been outside all
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day and it's gloomy outside. And I watched a
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second episode last night when I probably should
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have just gone to bed and didn't get my workout
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in. And you'd have a list of all the things that
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make me feel tired. And if I asked you instead,
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what's energizing you this week? You would do
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that same scan of your calendar of your life.
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And you'd tell me about the dinner plans with
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a girlfriend and the book you're reading that's
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really inspiring you and the walk you're going
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to take with your husband in a few hours. You'd
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tell me all of these good things in your life.
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Our questions are fateful. And so. As leaders
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and as leaders union appreciative inquiry, we've
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got to ask questions about the things we really
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want happening in the world. And then the final
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principle, I call it the involved principle.
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It's an inclusion principle or the wholeness
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principle could be other words for it. But the
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idea is that it's impossible for the CEO to have
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all of the best ideas. It's just impossible.
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And so we need to ask as many people as possible.
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And the asking does two things. One, it gives
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us more ideas to work with. But two, when you
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invite people into the process of getting ideas
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out there and then choosing between them and
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shaping what evolves from it, an initiative that
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evolves from it, we know people will support
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what they helped to create, that they will be
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invested from the start. And especially inside
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organizations, you can shortcut a lot of the
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buy -in period because people are going to support
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what they helped to create. We informally sometimes
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call it the Ikea effect, which is the idea that
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that $100 dresser you bought at Ikea and it took
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you three hours to put together, you actually
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have more love and affection for and you will
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move it from house to house to house because
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of the sweat equity in it. We love what we labor
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for. And so when we invite people to labor in
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the ideas with us, when we ask questions of them,
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then we have their support from the start. All
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right. Those are the three principles. And now
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we can actually talk about how they show up in
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the questions of appreciative inquiry. And like
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I said, these are the cheat code questions that
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you take these questions and then you use them
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like a template and you swap out the topics and
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you elaborate around them a little bit. You just
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ask these same three questions for anything that's
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going on. So the first is what I call the high
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point experience question. So let's imagine that
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we are trying to improve compliance. We're trying
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to shorten compliance time in our organization.
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We spend two weeks of every month just on compliance.
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We could get that done in a week on our regulatory
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processes in a week. Then we'd have three weeks
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for more innovative work or more advancing other
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things. So high point experience question around
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that topic that may seem kind of dull is, hey,
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I know we have. real obligations in terms of
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compliance. But there are probably times in your
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life where you've seen us be able to move a process,
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a compliance process, really quickly. Tell me
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a story about a specific time when we've been
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at our best around compliance. What happened?
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What were the results? Who was involved? What
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was your contribution? What was the contribution
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of others? What was it about the organization,
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our ways of working, the circumstances, our culture,
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our tools, our resources that made that possible?
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And that question helps us believe in the future
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and believe that. These are real possibilities.
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I asked that question, that very question about
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compliance in an organization who told me it
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was impossible to do it faster. But then they
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realized that their industry was influenced by
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the weather. So when there was a hurricane, they
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could get compliance through faster. So it was
00:14:24.100 --> 00:14:26.460
entirely possible to do it. We just had to have
00:14:26.460 --> 00:14:28.759
a fast track process. And they helped them see
00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:31.659
that there are circumstances in which we can
00:14:31.659 --> 00:14:34.000
do it faster. How could we learn? What were we
00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:36.200
doing there? And they've discovered they were
00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:38.059
doing things like having a 10 -minute stand -up
00:14:38.059 --> 00:14:39.580
meeting every morning where they knocked out
00:14:39.580 --> 00:14:42.159
a bunch of requirements real fast instead of
00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:44.500
waiting on it to land in your inbox and waiting
00:14:44.500 --> 00:14:46.559
for you to click yes and it goes to the next
00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:49.120
person. They found all these ways just in asking
00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:50.740
that question. So that's a high -point experience
00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:53.860
question. The second question is the images of
00:14:53.860 --> 00:14:58.100
the future question. And in it, you say something
00:14:58.100 --> 00:15:00.860
like, okay, imagine it's five years from now
00:15:00.860 --> 00:15:03.340
or three years or three months, whatever a reasonable
00:15:03.340 --> 00:15:07.779
timeframe is. And we are so smoking fast when
00:15:07.779 --> 00:15:10.679
it comes to compliance. Our processes are down
00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:15.480
to six days a month. If that were the case, if
00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:20.700
we were the most expedited, most amped up, most
00:15:20.700 --> 00:15:23.799
just efficient process of compliance possible,
00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:26.629
what would be happening? What would be new? What
00:15:26.629 --> 00:15:29.250
would be different? What would it mean in terms
00:15:29.250 --> 00:15:31.669
of the technology we were using? What would it
00:15:31.669 --> 00:15:33.830
mean in terms of who had to give approvals? What
00:15:33.830 --> 00:15:35.990
would it mean in terms of the work that you then
00:15:35.990 --> 00:15:39.009
had time for to do? What would it mean in terms
00:15:39.009 --> 00:15:41.289
of your role and my role? And you ask people
00:15:41.289 --> 00:15:44.649
to describe it. And notice in the first question,
00:15:44.669 --> 00:15:47.590
we asked for a real story. And in this question,
00:15:47.649 --> 00:15:50.250
we're not asking for a bullet list of ways to
00:15:50.250 --> 00:15:52.250
make compliance faster. We're asking them to
00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:54.850
imagine it already is faster. And tell me what
00:15:54.850 --> 00:15:57.629
they see. And that's a visualization process.
00:15:57.830 --> 00:16:00.049
And, you know, you know this from watching professional
00:16:00.049 --> 00:16:02.450
athletes. Visualization is absolutely essential
00:16:02.450 --> 00:16:04.950
for succeeding at a task. We have to believe
00:16:04.950 --> 00:16:07.789
we can succeed at it before we actually can figure
00:16:07.789 --> 00:16:09.750
out how to do it. And so that visualization is
00:16:09.750 --> 00:16:12.149
really important. So we've got the high point
00:16:12.149 --> 00:16:13.909
experience question, the images of the future.
00:16:13.950 --> 00:16:15.730
And the third and final question is the one that
00:16:15.730 --> 00:16:18.269
gets practical. And it says, if that's the future
00:16:18.269 --> 00:16:21.629
we want. what are the three most important things
00:16:21.629 --> 00:16:24.070
we need to do to make it happen? Or maybe it's
00:16:24.070 --> 00:16:26.309
the five most important things. Or maybe you
00:16:26.309 --> 00:16:28.549
have to say, where do we need to be in seven
00:16:28.549 --> 00:16:30.730
years? And then what do we have to do this year
00:16:30.730 --> 00:16:34.070
to start getting us there? But it takes it from
00:16:34.070 --> 00:16:37.309
this blue sky idea and lets us narrow it into
00:16:37.309 --> 00:16:40.309
something we can get into a bite -sized piece,
00:16:40.529 --> 00:16:43.570
something that we can build action around. Those
00:16:43.570 --> 00:16:45.450
are the three questions of appreciative inquiry.
00:16:45.870 --> 00:16:49.039
They're powerful. They are flexible. You just
00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:52.000
pop out one topic, pop in another, and they're
00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:54.220
different. They're focused on that future, that
00:16:54.220 --> 00:16:56.860
positive regard and positive future focus that
00:16:56.860 --> 00:16:59.299
I was talking about. Yeah. I mean, there is,
00:16:59.299 --> 00:17:02.059
as you've pointed out, there's a time and place
00:17:02.059 --> 00:17:05.880
to understand what went wrong. But when we start
00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:11.220
with the problem, it does tend to, it sets a
00:17:11.220 --> 00:17:13.160
template. It sets a template for what we're going
00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:17.269
to do. It restrains us. puts us in a mindset
00:17:17.269 --> 00:17:21.710
of, well, this is what's wrong. We have to avoid
00:17:21.710 --> 00:17:25.490
wrong as opposed to when have we been in our
00:17:25.490 --> 00:17:28.529
best? When have we been successful? What will
00:17:28.529 --> 00:17:33.130
it look like? And you had very kindly asked me
00:17:33.130 --> 00:17:35.369
about the workbook I published earlier this year.
00:17:36.069 --> 00:17:42.109
The what do we have to do to get there is sort
00:17:42.109 --> 00:17:47.569
of the central. um idea of the last portion of
00:17:47.569 --> 00:17:50.029
the work people go through in creating that personal
00:17:50.029 --> 00:17:54.069
vision statement and i love that you brought
00:17:54.069 --> 00:17:57.950
up visualization because it is so powerful the
00:17:57.950 --> 00:18:03.269
studies what is it basketball um practicing three
00:18:03.269 --> 00:18:06.650
-point throws they've studied where they've split
00:18:06.650 --> 00:18:12.779
the subjects up and one group was directed to
00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:16.220
practice, to actually do the practice for three
00:18:16.220 --> 00:18:19.859
months or some determined length of time. The
00:18:19.859 --> 00:18:23.440
other study group, they were told not to do the
00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:28.619
practice, but to do the visualization. And at
00:18:28.619 --> 00:18:32.059
the end of that time, there was obviously a significant
00:18:32.059 --> 00:18:33.859
improvement in the people that did the physical
00:18:33.859 --> 00:18:37.819
practice, but there was also a significant improvement,
00:18:38.059 --> 00:18:43.150
not to the same extent, but... research significance
00:18:43.150 --> 00:18:48.789
that visualizing intentionally and repeatedly
00:18:48.789 --> 00:18:55.490
doing the shot well actually helped people improve
00:18:55.490 --> 00:19:00.910
their scores. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I think
00:19:00.910 --> 00:19:05.730
that is why questions but appreciative inquiry
00:19:05.730 --> 00:19:09.690
flavored questions can be so powerful when we
00:19:09.690 --> 00:19:13.650
come to learning moments, whether you're in a
00:19:13.650 --> 00:19:16.750
leadership role or in a learner role, an employee
00:19:16.750 --> 00:19:21.829
role, thinking about what is good in this, what
00:19:21.829 --> 00:19:26.009
is working well, what will it take to improve
00:19:26.009 --> 00:19:33.250
or to maintain success? That discovery, looking
00:19:33.250 --> 00:19:38.609
to discover through that lens, it just wires
00:19:38.609 --> 00:19:45.509
you ahead of time. To succeed. Exactly. Yeah.
00:19:45.589 --> 00:19:47.710
If you came to me as an individual and said,
00:19:47.750 --> 00:19:50.450
I'm terrible at public speaking and I've really
00:19:50.450 --> 00:19:52.750
got to learn to be better at this. I wouldn't
00:19:52.750 --> 00:19:55.130
say, oh, tell me about how nervous you are. I
00:19:55.130 --> 00:19:58.230
would say, oh, OK, well, first, let's have maybe
00:19:58.230 --> 00:19:59.849
let's have a conversation about how this could
00:19:59.849 --> 00:20:01.970
be good for your career, how it could be good
00:20:01.970 --> 00:20:03.869
for your life. What would it feel like to be
00:20:03.869 --> 00:20:06.369
good in that way? Tell me about a time you've
00:20:06.369 --> 00:20:09.859
talked in public. Maybe it was even just asking
00:20:09.859 --> 00:20:12.900
a question in a meeting and you did feel that
00:20:12.900 --> 00:20:15.799
way. Okay. And so what else was true in that
00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:18.059
circumstance? And we'd start to build for you
00:20:18.059 --> 00:20:22.380
a set of examples that tell you, I already have
00:20:22.380 --> 00:20:26.279
this capacity in me and I can learn and grow
00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:28.500
and develop my skill by leaning into what already
00:20:28.500 --> 00:20:30.960
exists instead of trying to fabricate something
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:34.660
or go get an entirely new skill that I'm bereft
00:20:34.660 --> 00:20:37.359
of. You actually have it in you already. And
00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:39.599
the learning is going to happen faster as a result.
00:20:39.940 --> 00:20:44.359
Yeah. Yeah. I remember in one of your articles
00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:49.380
that I read in preparation for our first recording,
00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:53.940
talking about some of the benefits of being a
00:20:53.940 --> 00:20:58.220
questioning person. One of them being that people
00:20:58.220 --> 00:21:01.799
perceive folks who ask questions as intelligent.
00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:06.079
Yes. Can you tell us a little bit about sort
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:09.750
of that? not necessarily the research, but essentially
00:21:09.750 --> 00:21:15.730
what it means for that and how that can be good
00:21:15.730 --> 00:21:19.710
for self -perception as well. What do you think
00:21:19.710 --> 00:21:23.549
about that? Yeah, the research, and there's not
00:21:23.549 --> 00:21:25.990
as many questions, research around asking questions
00:21:25.990 --> 00:21:29.630
as I want there to be. And so I want to admit
00:21:29.630 --> 00:21:32.799
that. In this research study, what they found
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:35.460
is that when we specifically when we need to
00:21:35.460 --> 00:21:37.700
ask for help or ask to understand something,
00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:40.940
we often feel like I'm going to label myself
00:21:40.940 --> 00:21:43.660
as ignorant and uninformed by asking this question,
00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:45.539
or I don't want to be the type of person that
00:21:45.539 --> 00:21:47.640
seems like I have to have help. And so we were
00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:51.480
hesitant to ask for wisdom, for advice, for insight,
00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:54.839
for support. And instead of actually thinking
00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:57.720
that you're uninformed, what tends to happen
00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:00.059
is I go to you, Kate, and say, I need your help.
00:22:00.349 --> 00:22:02.569
And you, instead of thinking, gosh, Amber's the
00:22:02.569 --> 00:22:04.769
real idiot that doesn't know, you think, Amber's
00:22:04.769 --> 00:22:09.150
so smart, she trusted me for advice. And so you
00:22:09.150 --> 00:22:11.930
actually see me as smarter because I didn't know
00:22:11.930 --> 00:22:15.599
something and came. and came to ask for it. And
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:17.799
people have probably had this experience in meetings.
00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:20.180
You're sitting in a meeting. Maybe you're the
00:22:20.180 --> 00:22:21.839
junior colleague. The meeting's moving a little
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:24.079
fast. You've got a question. You don't understand
00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:26.259
something. And you have the courage to raise
00:22:26.259 --> 00:22:28.299
your hand to ask. And you do it with trepidation,
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:29.880
thinking people are going to think I'm an idiot,
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:32.039
but I don't know this. And instead, you ask a
00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:33.720
question and you see all the heads nod like,
00:22:33.779 --> 00:22:38.730
thank you. Thank God somebody asked. Yes, I have.
00:22:38.750 --> 00:22:41.470
I have been that person. The fleeting embarrassment
00:22:41.470 --> 00:22:45.809
of saying I don't know is definitely worth the
00:22:45.809 --> 00:22:50.369
benefit of learning. Whether it's what an acronym
00:22:50.369 --> 00:22:54.450
means or what the plan that the strategic plan
00:22:54.450 --> 00:22:56.089
everyone's referencing that I've never seen.
00:22:56.710 --> 00:23:00.130
Yeah. Yeah. You know, in preparing for this session,
00:23:00.170 --> 00:23:01.930
I was doing a little research my own and I wanted
00:23:01.930 --> 00:23:05.019
to think about the Socratic method, which. is
00:23:05.019 --> 00:23:09.539
the idea of an informed teacher, instead of lecturing,
00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:12.740
actually helping the students ask questions and
00:23:12.740 --> 00:23:15.700
engage with ideas and dialogue until they come
00:23:15.700 --> 00:23:17.900
to a new point of understanding. I love it. It's
00:23:17.900 --> 00:23:20.420
progress towards new material. It does sort of
00:23:20.420 --> 00:23:23.539
assume the teacher knows the answer. But this
00:23:23.539 --> 00:23:25.920
is so fascinating to me. Socrates called it a
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:30.099
midwifery process. isn't that gorgeous of course
00:23:30.099 --> 00:23:33.220
this idea that you're birthing ideas in people
00:23:33.220 --> 00:23:36.220
that you are helping them bring forth new understanding
00:23:36.220 --> 00:23:39.059
that's almost like new that is as grand as new
00:23:39.059 --> 00:23:41.599
life or is you know that has some value like
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:44.980
new life has value and i just i love that process
00:23:44.980 --> 00:23:48.740
it does presume that there is a leader who has
00:23:48.740 --> 00:23:52.119
the answers and I think it's even more important
00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:54.559
for us to ask questions in the moments where
00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:57.039
I don't know the answer. I'm the leader. I don't
00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:59.299
know. You're the leader. You don't know. We're
00:23:59.299 --> 00:24:01.319
in a room together. We don't know. And I think
00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:04.579
it's so essential in those moments to be asking
00:24:04.579 --> 00:24:07.480
questions, to be playing with ideas, to be integrating
00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:13.140
ideas, to be midwifing our own. idea birthing
00:24:13.140 --> 00:24:15.460
process by asking questions we don't know the
00:24:15.460 --> 00:24:18.480
answer to. One of the things I love about that
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:24.400
conceptually is that it's it sets the yes there
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:28.700
is an informed teacher or leader who can help
00:24:28.700 --> 00:24:31.700
feed the answer if it doesn't come but it's saying
00:24:31.700 --> 00:24:36.819
that you recipient of the question employee student
00:24:36.819 --> 00:24:41.569
learner you have within you the ability To create
00:24:41.569 --> 00:24:47.569
this. That the level of respect. And valuing
00:24:47.569 --> 00:24:51.910
of that person's intrinsic worth. That comes
00:24:51.910 --> 00:24:56.470
with that perspective on it. It's beautiful.
00:24:56.930 --> 00:25:00.029
It's absolutely beautiful. It really is. It's
00:25:00.029 --> 00:25:01.930
the positive regard we were talking about earlier.
00:25:02.430 --> 00:25:07.390
Yeah. Yeah. And that's. I also love this idea
00:25:07.390 --> 00:25:10.430
then that ignorance is not. a moral failing.
00:25:11.490 --> 00:25:14.950
It's the lack of opportunity to gestate an idea,
00:25:15.089 --> 00:25:21.109
to be exposed to something new. Yeah. Ignorance
00:25:21.109 --> 00:25:23.890
is not a moral failing, but staying in ignorance.
00:25:25.670 --> 00:25:28.250
I don't want to judge somebody else, but to stay
00:25:28.250 --> 00:25:31.650
in ignorance is a failure. Well, it's the know
00:25:31.650 --> 00:25:35.599
better, do better, right? If you've never had
00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:39.880
the opportunity to encounter information or an
00:25:39.880 --> 00:25:44.579
experience or a person that has a different background
00:25:44.579 --> 00:25:46.839
than you, if you've never had that experience,
00:25:47.140 --> 00:25:51.339
of course there's going to be ignorance, a lack
00:25:51.339 --> 00:25:55.339
of knowledge there. But you have the opportunity
00:25:55.339 --> 00:25:58.240
and you either choose not to take it or you take
00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:03.789
nothing from it. I agree. There are so many reasons
00:26:03.789 --> 00:26:07.009
why someone could choose to remain ignorant,
00:26:07.150 --> 00:26:11.309
but it's hard not to judge. You mentioned the
00:26:11.309 --> 00:26:14.190
Socratic method. I've been thinking through,
00:26:14.289 --> 00:26:18.890
in addition to appreciative inquiry, what are
00:26:18.890 --> 00:26:22.950
some of the other methods and techniques that
00:26:22.950 --> 00:26:27.750
we've encountered that have been effective to
00:26:27.750 --> 00:26:33.970
discovery and learning? I think the scientific
00:26:33.970 --> 00:26:37.549
method shows us that starting with a question
00:26:37.549 --> 00:26:42.230
is the path to that. There is a process used
00:26:42.230 --> 00:26:47.069
in quality circles called root cause analysis,
00:26:47.349 --> 00:26:52.569
the five whys, that by asking why multiple times,
00:26:52.710 --> 00:26:56.630
you're able to drill down into what is the cause
00:26:56.630 --> 00:27:01.740
of the event, which is a type of learning. I've
00:27:01.740 --> 00:27:05.400
been able to use that with coaching, with facilitating
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:10.039
meetings as well for group processes. What are
00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:13.019
some other ones, ma 'am? One of my favorites,
00:27:13.099 --> 00:27:17.799
I call it recombination or integrative thinking
00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:22.259
is another name for it. And it's the idea of
00:27:22.259 --> 00:27:25.799
let's take two unlike things and figure out how
00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:28.119
they fit together and how they inform each other.
00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:31.779
If any of your listeners are old enough to remember
00:27:31.779 --> 00:27:35.920
the Reebok pump shoe, this is because Reebok
00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:37.680
was trying to figure out how to take over market
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:41.319
share. And they wanted more stability around
00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:44.359
ankles. And there was somebody in the room who
00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:47.440
happened to have medical experience. And he said,
00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:52.099
what if we took a tennis shoe and the blood pressure
00:27:52.099 --> 00:27:54.740
pump experience and we put those two things together?
00:27:55.019 --> 00:28:00.480
That's recombination. If you use Spot Hero to
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.519
get your parking spot, that's a recombination
00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:05.720
of a traditional parking lot and a reservation
00:28:05.720 --> 00:28:09.579
system. It's a recombination of ideas. And we
00:28:09.579 --> 00:28:12.859
can intentionally ask recombination ideas in
00:28:12.859 --> 00:28:15.740
our life. If you're a person who attends a church,
00:28:15.819 --> 00:28:17.299
you could ask, how can a church be more like
00:28:17.299 --> 00:28:21.140
a bar? That's going to lead you to a great conversation.
00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:24.880
Maybe you were in charge of onboarding at your
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:27.990
organization and you asked the question, How
00:28:27.990 --> 00:28:32.410
could onboarding be more like a party than a
00:28:32.410 --> 00:28:38.230
sterile process? So you pick some disunlike thing
00:28:38.230 --> 00:28:41.369
and you combine it. I work with some public libraries
00:28:41.369 --> 00:28:43.809
and some of them have been asking, how should
00:28:43.809 --> 00:28:46.069
our library be more like Netflix? How should
00:28:46.069 --> 00:28:49.799
our library be more like Amazon? Awesome. See
00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:51.559
how many ideas just immediately. I mean, you're
00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:54.299
not even a librarian, but I bet you already have
00:28:54.299 --> 00:28:57.000
10 ideas of what that could mean. And two of
00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:59.700
them are probably worth digging into and building
00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:02.440
together and having a conversation around. So
00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:04.660
that idea of recombination is borrowing a field
00:29:04.660 --> 00:29:06.900
from online from product development and marketing
00:29:06.900 --> 00:29:09.720
and figuring out how do we bring unlike ideas
00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:13.079
together to learn. I think learning is at its
00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:17.359
best kind of a magpie activity. Oh, there's a
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.529
practice over there. I'm going to steal that
00:29:19.529 --> 00:29:21.789
and put it in my nest. There's a practice over
00:29:21.789 --> 00:29:25.069
there that I think lifelong learners are able
00:29:25.069 --> 00:29:31.269
to scan the environment and find shiny objects
00:29:31.269 --> 00:29:37.859
essentially. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, as I was thinking
00:29:37.859 --> 00:29:39.640
about today, I was thinking about something related
00:29:39.640 --> 00:29:41.480
to that. I don't know if you're familiar with
00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:43.339
the Center for Creative Leadership and their
00:29:43.339 --> 00:29:46.839
model of how learning happens as adults. Okay.
00:29:46.980 --> 00:29:50.420
It's called the 70 -20 -10 model. Oh, yes. Yes,
00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:53.579
I'm very familiar. I am sure a lot of your listeners
00:29:53.579 --> 00:29:57.240
are well, but the idea is that only 10 % of our
00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:59.400
learning comes from sort of formal classroom
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:03.079
experiences. or picking up books. That's just
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:07.000
10 % of our learning. And then the 20%, they
00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:09.660
call it developmental relationships. Other people,
00:30:09.660 --> 00:30:12.559
yes. Other people are observation and reflection
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:15.420
of other people. And then the 70 % comes from
00:30:15.420 --> 00:30:18.319
challenging new experiences, from taking this
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:20.279
idea you learned in a book, or you learned from
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:23.559
observing someone else, and actually doing the
00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:26.519
elbow grease work of trying to apply it in your
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:28.460
situation, figuring out what works and doesn't
00:30:28.460 --> 00:30:32.160
work. And I think what's fascinating about that
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:35.539
is when we apply it to questions is what does
00:30:35.539 --> 00:30:38.180
it mean to do that elbow grease work of applying
00:30:38.180 --> 00:30:42.660
ideas? How do I get in there and fight with the
00:30:42.660 --> 00:30:47.950
ideas? Wrestle with them and not in a animosity
00:30:47.950 --> 00:30:51.009
sort of way, but in a let them live in my space
00:30:51.009 --> 00:30:53.849
and test ideas through conversation, through
00:30:53.849 --> 00:30:56.369
literal pilot tests, whatever it might be. How
00:30:56.369 --> 00:31:00.109
do we how do we learn in those challenging experiences
00:31:00.109 --> 00:31:03.490
of applying ideas? Well, it's a wonderful model.
00:31:03.650 --> 00:31:07.829
So, yes, very familiar with the 70 2010. And
00:31:07.829 --> 00:31:14.170
it's an older formula, but it is. time and time
00:31:14.170 --> 00:31:17.390
tested it's shown over time that this is true
00:31:17.390 --> 00:31:20.789
that the most effective learning comes from challenging
00:31:20.789 --> 00:31:24.109
assignments there is value in formal learning
00:31:24.109 --> 00:31:27.890
reading classes but we don't want to overload
00:31:27.890 --> 00:31:31.509
in those settings and that tells us something
00:31:31.509 --> 00:31:34.690
about the types of questions we can pursue and
00:31:34.690 --> 00:31:40.440
where we ask them as well that the more kind
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:42.559
of formal, let me go research this, let me go
00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:47.579
to the library questions, if you will, they have
00:31:47.579 --> 00:31:51.039
value. But if those are all we're asking, we
00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:54.660
aren't necessarily gaining skill or experience.
00:31:54.660 --> 00:31:58.960
It's simply knowledge. Yeah, absolutely. Other
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:02.319
people watching, reflecting on them, but also
00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:06.380
asking other people to share knowledge, to demonstrate
00:32:06.380 --> 00:32:11.529
skills. that we start rounding out our learning
00:32:11.529 --> 00:32:14.970
capability when we engage with others. And then
00:32:14.970 --> 00:32:18.069
the questions that take us into the field, if
00:32:18.069 --> 00:32:23.410
you will, become the most impactful for us. It's
00:32:23.410 --> 00:32:28.190
not just, what does it take to do X? Tell me
00:32:28.190 --> 00:32:32.529
about X. It's how will I get it done? And it
00:32:32.529 --> 00:32:38.230
can be a pathway to lasting learning. You can
00:32:38.230 --> 00:32:41.569
start with the I'm going to look up a book or
00:32:41.569 --> 00:32:44.670
article on this. Then I'm going to go talk to
00:32:44.670 --> 00:32:47.309
someone about it and then I'm going to go do
00:32:47.309 --> 00:32:52.289
it. And then the step after that is I did it.
00:32:52.309 --> 00:32:55.450
What have I learned? The reflection. Yeah. The
00:32:55.450 --> 00:32:58.470
reflection. Bob Quinn at University of Michigan.
00:32:58.589 --> 00:33:02.250
He I once heard him say that as adults, we learn
00:33:02.250 --> 00:33:05.359
leadership through. crisis or self -reflection.
00:33:05.460 --> 00:33:07.900
And most of us try to avoid crisis. We've got
00:33:07.900 --> 00:33:10.680
to get in there with the self -reflection. And
00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:14.160
I just think that's so true that we get so busy,
00:33:14.180 --> 00:33:18.180
we stop to ask, what did I learn? And I don't
00:33:18.180 --> 00:33:20.539
even think it has to be in your life. It can
00:33:20.539 --> 00:33:23.059
be if you're observing something going down in
00:33:23.059 --> 00:33:25.599
your organization, maybe you're at a distance
00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:28.059
from it, but it didn't happen the way you thought
00:33:28.059 --> 00:33:30.299
it should. Just even doing a little thought process
00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:32.700
as you drive home at night. If I were in charge
00:33:32.700 --> 00:33:35.220
of that, what might I have done? What would I
00:33:35.220 --> 00:33:37.059
have added to that process? Or where would I
00:33:37.059 --> 00:33:40.119
have communicated differently? You can even learn
00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:43.140
from somebody else's experiences when we pause
00:33:43.140 --> 00:33:46.339
for self -reflection, for reflection. And that's,
00:33:46.339 --> 00:33:48.480
I think, one of the reasons professionally why
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:53.299
mentorship is so important. Combined with a very
00:33:53.299 --> 00:33:57.819
robust, active reflection practice. Yeah, in
00:33:57.819 --> 00:34:02.349
some of the... I'm big into create a model for
00:34:02.349 --> 00:34:05.950
how to do it. I like people to have mental models
00:34:05.950 --> 00:34:11.550
that help them walk through processes. And when
00:34:11.550 --> 00:34:16.769
I was leading a learning department, I created
00:34:16.769 --> 00:34:19.710
a set of guidelines for how we were doing self
00:34:19.710 --> 00:34:23.989
-study, like virtual self -study modules. It
00:34:23.989 --> 00:34:27.780
was to, you would encounter. Like here's the
00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:29.840
information that we want you to know, the skill,
00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:34.480
the thing. The next part was reflect. What does
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:37.400
this mean for me? And then there was the assignment
00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:40.039
to apply what you'd learned to get the practice.
00:34:40.460 --> 00:34:44.960
So it is that continuum that we're talking about.
00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:50.420
I really appreciate you bringing up CCL and letting
00:34:50.420 --> 00:34:54.829
me do my learning and development nerd. moments
00:34:54.829 --> 00:34:57.389
because one of the things I shared with you in
00:34:57.389 --> 00:35:03.750
my notes in my own L &D practice as a consultant
00:35:03.750 --> 00:35:08.730
I because I like mental models I have a model
00:35:08.730 --> 00:35:10.550
that works in the background for how I think
00:35:10.550 --> 00:35:15.010
about coaching creating learning experiences
00:35:15.010 --> 00:35:21.039
and because I like to entertain myself When I
00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:23.960
name things, I call it the learning engine. Like
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:28.239
what is it that powers learning? And I think
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:30.659
of it as a four -stroke engine. My husband was
00:35:30.659 --> 00:35:33.719
a mechanic for a while. What I think the skills
00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:36.420
that contribute to effective lifelong learning
00:35:36.420 --> 00:35:41.739
are curiosity, empathy, courage, and endurance.
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:45.960
And that we want to, one, teach people those
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:50.329
skills. but also create ways where they are practicing
00:35:50.329 --> 00:35:54.269
those things and leveraging them to learn stuff.
00:35:56.489 --> 00:36:02.130
So curiosity obviously has a connection to questions.
00:36:02.670 --> 00:36:08.849
I've already made that case. But I'm very curious,
00:36:08.949 --> 00:36:13.210
Amber, for you, how do you think being skilled
00:36:13.210 --> 00:36:15.829
at questions, what I will call question acumen,
00:36:16.940 --> 00:36:21.579
functions inside that learning engine. Do you
00:36:21.579 --> 00:36:25.179
think it does? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I
00:36:25.179 --> 00:36:27.199
love your tendency towards building a model because
00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:30.019
it helps you repeat what's worked and learn.
00:36:30.139 --> 00:36:32.019
It's a self -reflection process in and of itself.
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:36.559
Let's just take empathy as an example, which
00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:38.539
is the second piece of your model, curiosity
00:36:38.539 --> 00:36:43.170
and then empathy. I think when another attribute
00:36:43.170 --> 00:36:45.190
of powerful questions I didn't mention earlier
00:36:45.190 --> 00:36:48.389
is that powerful questions often seek understanding.
00:36:48.449 --> 00:36:51.349
They ask about feelings rather than just facts.
00:36:51.610 --> 00:36:53.929
And this might be more important now than it
00:36:53.929 --> 00:36:56.710
ever has been in our society, because we know
00:36:56.710 --> 00:36:59.690
that when people don't feel understood and when
00:36:59.690 --> 00:37:02.050
they feel lonely, it leads to mistrust and that's
00:37:02.050 --> 00:37:05.010
fuel for conspiracy theories. And so learning
00:37:05.010 --> 00:37:09.309
to ask questions that help you understand. that
00:37:09.309 --> 00:37:13.269
show positive regard and empathy towards the
00:37:13.269 --> 00:37:15.489
other person and that seek to understand their
00:37:15.489 --> 00:37:18.909
experience, I think is vital for our relationships.
00:37:18.989 --> 00:37:21.329
It's absolutely essential for a healthy society.
00:37:21.530 --> 00:37:24.369
And it's at the heart of what it means to be
00:37:24.369 --> 00:37:29.190
human in our work as well. That we're not just
00:37:29.190 --> 00:37:32.590
so focused on process and results that we forget
00:37:32.590 --> 00:37:34.510
that it's people that made it possible in the
00:37:34.510 --> 00:37:37.130
first place. I have nothing to add to that, Amber.
00:37:37.230 --> 00:37:46.460
I agree. More than 100%. And I feel like in asking
00:37:46.460 --> 00:37:51.519
the questions of what is this like? What don't
00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:56.820
I know? Can I seek to understand? What a learner
00:37:56.820 --> 00:38:00.599
is doing in that process is beginning to collect
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:04.860
evidence of their capability or new knowledge.
00:38:08.139 --> 00:38:12.920
I think drives the courage to go again, to ask
00:38:12.920 --> 00:38:16.619
the next question, to make the next attempt at
00:38:16.619 --> 00:38:22.400
something new, to possibly fail. But then you
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:24.360
have the opportunity to ask yourself the question,
00:38:24.539 --> 00:38:27.820
I've done it once before, I can do it again,
00:38:28.059 --> 00:38:31.920
right? Yeah. The answer's right. And that's endurance.
00:38:32.019 --> 00:38:37.400
And you're constantly fueling this process. inside
00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:40.800
yourself engaging with the world around you that
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:47.360
starts with what if why how yeah and takes you
00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:51.579
through I like your word courage and I might
00:38:51.579 --> 00:38:55.480
say that courage also needs backing it up agency
00:38:55.480 --> 00:39:00.969
a sense that I can I trust myself and my confidence.
00:39:01.110 --> 00:39:03.269
My self -confidence is not that I know the answer,
00:39:03.329 --> 00:39:06.150
but I know the next thing to try, the next question
00:39:06.150 --> 00:39:09.269
to ask. It's a learning orientation and that
00:39:09.269 --> 00:39:11.389
I will have. I also trust myself to have the
00:39:11.389 --> 00:39:13.889
courage to show up and do the next thing. What
00:39:13.889 --> 00:39:16.789
is the next small action that I can take to move
00:39:16.789 --> 00:39:19.849
this forward? And I think that's essential to
00:39:19.849 --> 00:39:23.690
learning. It's not expecting yourself to have
00:39:23.690 --> 00:39:27.880
the full answer. But to have something that gets
00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:30.579
you closer, one step closer today, if I know
00:39:30.579 --> 00:39:32.519
a little more today than I did before, then I
00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:35.059
have succeeded. And that's often grounded in
00:39:35.059 --> 00:39:38.300
the questions that we ask, starting first with
00:39:38.300 --> 00:39:42.420
what's even possible here? Yes. Yeah. I just,
00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:47.199
there is so much power in those simple questions,
00:39:47.420 --> 00:39:52.219
the elementary questions that we encountered
00:39:52.219 --> 00:39:56.670
the concepts of. As far back as I can remember
00:39:56.670 --> 00:39:59.329
in school, the what, where, why, who, and how.
00:40:00.269 --> 00:40:03.989
That if we can answer those, in most circumstances,
00:40:04.050 --> 00:40:08.110
it gives us the information we need to make decisions,
00:40:08.210 --> 00:40:11.789
to move forward, to determine what our next steps
00:40:11.789 --> 00:40:18.489
are. I've seen it play out in performance management,
00:40:18.590 --> 00:40:22.150
in times of change, in interpersonal relationships.
00:40:23.469 --> 00:40:27.489
And if you can just take yourself through that
00:40:27.489 --> 00:40:33.130
simple set of fundamental elementary topics,
00:40:33.369 --> 00:40:39.010
it leads, it just busts the door down for more
00:40:39.010 --> 00:40:41.690
different, better. Let me just double click on
00:40:41.690 --> 00:40:44.349
that, particularly for the workplace, because
00:40:44.349 --> 00:40:49.030
I think on teams and especially project teams.
00:40:49.980 --> 00:40:52.500
It's a failure to be clear on the answers to
00:40:52.500 --> 00:40:55.199
some of those really basic questions that gets
00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:59.139
us stuck and stalled and stymied. We don't know
00:40:59.139 --> 00:41:02.059
what role, I know my role in the organization,
00:41:02.219 --> 00:41:04.159
what role do I play on this team? So we don't
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:07.420
have that who question clarified. We know our
00:41:07.420 --> 00:41:11.019
end goal is this, but why does it matter? We
00:41:11.019 --> 00:41:13.360
know our end goal is this, but how are we supposed
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:15.699
to make decisions? Do we have the authority to
00:41:15.699 --> 00:41:17.539
make decisions? Are we kicking a recommendation
00:41:17.539 --> 00:41:21.489
up in the process? And and then just the record
00:41:21.489 --> 00:41:24.110
keeping of it. So it's asking the questions and
00:41:24.110 --> 00:41:26.570
actually keeping a record of the answers. I find
00:41:26.570 --> 00:41:31.429
that to be a standard failure. There is I never
00:41:31.429 --> 00:41:34.309
I never accurately remember the name of it. There
00:41:34.309 --> 00:41:37.929
is a team performance model. I think it's Sibley.
00:41:39.929 --> 00:41:42.110
I'll look it up. I will look it up in there.
00:41:42.190 --> 00:41:46.429
I will link to it. But it it's this wonderful
00:41:46.429 --> 00:41:51.369
visual of. Kind of think of a ball hitting the
00:41:51.369 --> 00:41:55.349
ground and then going where it's intended. But
00:41:55.349 --> 00:41:59.989
you start with answering for people, why am I
00:41:59.989 --> 00:42:05.889
here? What's my role? Well, and then next, why
00:42:05.889 --> 00:42:09.449
are these other people here? Orienting people
00:42:09.449 --> 00:42:12.489
to their role, what other people are there for,
00:42:12.570 --> 00:42:16.070
building trust and respect in from the start.
00:42:17.150 --> 00:42:21.750
allows you to move through to this point of we
00:42:21.750 --> 00:42:26.530
get it and now we can perform. Exactly. Yeah,
00:42:26.610 --> 00:42:30.150
I call it goals, roles and protocols. Yes, I
00:42:30.150 --> 00:42:33.130
like that a lot. You know, honestly, let me just
00:42:33.130 --> 00:42:36.090
be honest about that language for years. We called
00:42:36.090 --> 00:42:39.969
it goals, roles and guidelines. And not long
00:42:39.969 --> 00:42:42.130
ago, I was thinking to myself, there's got to
00:42:42.130 --> 00:42:48.280
be. I wanted to feel memorable. And I use chat
00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:51.059
GPT. And I said, here, I'm describing this. And
00:42:51.059 --> 00:42:52.880
I want something that means like guidelines,
00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:56.519
guardrails. And it spit out protocols in 10 seconds.
00:42:57.039 --> 00:42:59.820
And that's, I think, an aspect of asking questions
00:42:59.820 --> 00:43:02.900
that we haven't mentioned yet is that prompt
00:43:02.900 --> 00:43:06.239
engineering, to use the fancy language for it,
00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:08.980
is actually a great way to learn. It's a great
00:43:08.980 --> 00:43:13.079
way to learn. Well, that echoes back to our conversation
00:43:13.079 --> 00:43:17.539
this spring that you get the answers to the questions
00:43:17.539 --> 00:43:22.760
you ask. So how you form your question is going
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:26.460
to result in the answer you get. Absolutely.
00:43:26.719 --> 00:43:32.340
And chat GPT, all of AI is teaching us that the
00:43:32.340 --> 00:43:35.780
quality of our prompts, prompt being a synonym
00:43:35.780 --> 00:43:41.320
for question, is... showing up in the quality
00:43:41.320 --> 00:43:45.380
of what's produced for us. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:49.039
So you can teach yourself a lot about great questions
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:54.219
and how to learn from them by a little bit of
00:43:54.219 --> 00:43:57.440
play, which I think is another thing in talking
00:43:57.440 --> 00:44:03.079
about the reforming. There's courage, I believe
00:44:03.079 --> 00:44:05.500
in asking a question or saying, I don't know,
00:44:05.500 --> 00:44:10.099
would you explain it? There's also courage in
00:44:10.099 --> 00:44:15.079
the work world and in being an adult, a professional,
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:19.679
in letting yourself be playful with things. What
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:22.500
if? What would it look like for this experience
00:44:22.500 --> 00:44:26.199
to be more like that other experience that I
00:44:26.199 --> 00:44:32.019
had? That's playful. Taking some time to play
00:44:32.019 --> 00:44:36.340
with chat GPT. For no other purpose than I want
00:44:36.340 --> 00:44:41.719
to learn more about how to do this better. We
00:44:41.719 --> 00:44:49.099
have to be willing to not take ourselves too
00:44:49.099 --> 00:44:55.280
seriously. The topic can be very serious. The
00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:59.079
outcomes or the consequences can be serious in
00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:03.590
nature. But we... can engage our imagination
00:45:03.590 --> 00:45:10.329
and our questions in ways that are playful or
00:45:10.329 --> 00:45:16.449
light. Yeah. I mean, to bring it back to appreciative
00:45:16.449 --> 00:45:18.650
inquiry, when we're doing appreciative inquiry
00:45:18.650 --> 00:45:21.030
in a formal process and, you know, a bunch of
00:45:21.030 --> 00:45:22.929
people in a room together, we ask that images
00:45:22.929 --> 00:45:24.809
of the future question, but we have them describe
00:45:24.809 --> 00:45:26.809
what they most want. We have them ask it one
00:45:26.809 --> 00:45:28.630
-on -one in the interview, and then we have them
00:45:28.630 --> 00:45:30.929
discuss it with, you know, six people at a table.
00:45:31.469 --> 00:45:34.389
And then we say, okay, talk, figure out what
00:45:34.389 --> 00:45:37.750
your shared vision of the future is. And then
00:45:37.750 --> 00:45:39.869
after we've let them do that for like 15 minutes,
00:45:39.929 --> 00:45:42.750
we say in 15 minutes, you have to give a presentation.
00:45:42.949 --> 00:45:45.349
It has to be a creative presentation. It can
00:45:45.349 --> 00:45:48.269
be a skit. It can be a game show. It can be a
00:45:48.269 --> 00:45:50.969
weather report, whatever it is, but you have
00:45:50.969 --> 00:45:53.449
to, you have to present your vision of the future
00:45:53.449 --> 00:45:56.389
creatively and everyone has to participate. And
00:45:56.389 --> 00:45:58.449
there's groans in the room. And then I roll out
00:45:58.449 --> 00:46:01.280
my prop basket and I've got. Magic wands and
00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:03.860
cowboy hats and magnifying glasses. And then
00:46:03.860 --> 00:46:05.820
people start to play and then they put on these
00:46:05.820 --> 00:46:08.940
adorable skits. And I know that you're thinking,
00:46:09.019 --> 00:46:12.079
why is that part of a business meeting? But people
00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:14.699
feel it for a minute. They feel that future.
00:46:14.760 --> 00:46:16.980
The compliance group I'm talking about, the most
00:46:16.980 --> 00:46:20.989
memorable one. These were a bunch of. engineers,
00:46:20.989 --> 00:46:23.110
a bunch of guys who had been doing this work
00:46:23.110 --> 00:46:26.989
for ages. They came to work in their jeans and
00:46:26.989 --> 00:46:29.110
their work boots and they put their head down
00:46:29.110 --> 00:46:30.630
and drank their coffee and got their work done.
00:46:31.309 --> 00:46:35.230
And they created a lip sync to the song. I'm
00:46:35.230 --> 00:46:37.769
too sexy for you. Remember that song? Yes. I'm
00:46:37.769 --> 00:46:40.530
too sexy. It was I'm too sexy for compliance.
00:46:42.130 --> 00:46:46.230
They strutted the runway like models. These 50
00:46:46.230 --> 00:46:48.769
year old men strutted and named all the things
00:46:48.769 --> 00:46:51.710
about they were too sexy for for this clunky
00:46:51.710 --> 00:46:54.670
compliance process. They had so much fun. They
00:46:54.670 --> 00:46:57.219
laughed. And at the end of that day. It was a
00:46:57.219 --> 00:46:59.880
two -day process. A few of those men cried and
00:46:59.880 --> 00:47:03.619
said, I did not know I could have fun at work.
00:47:03.739 --> 00:47:05.960
I thought it was all drudgery. And I did not
00:47:05.960 --> 00:47:09.960
know my voice could influence the process. And
00:47:09.960 --> 00:47:12.719
I think that play is absolutely essential for
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:15.559
believing I have influence. I have voice. I don't
00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:18.119
have to take myself too seriously. I can throw
00:47:18.119 --> 00:47:20.760
out some idea knowing that it's half -baked.
00:47:22.489 --> 00:47:25.090
I feel safe to do it because it's the spirit
00:47:25.090 --> 00:47:28.889
of play is present. Yeah. We spend far too much
00:47:28.889 --> 00:47:32.630
time at work to be miserable and to, you know,
00:47:32.670 --> 00:47:36.630
we're not made for judgery, drudgery. We're made
00:47:36.630 --> 00:47:41.809
for, for joy in my personal opinion. But yeah,
00:47:41.809 --> 00:47:46.030
I'm really curious, Amber. I, I would like to,
00:47:46.170 --> 00:47:51.960
I would like to ask you a question about. What
00:47:51.960 --> 00:47:56.460
questions are you chasing right now? What in
00:47:56.460 --> 00:48:01.619
your work is interesting, curious, stuck in your
00:48:01.619 --> 00:48:09.360
teeth? Yeah. In the point of history that we're
00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:12.039
recording this today, it's been a tumultuous
00:48:12.039 --> 00:48:14.000
season in American history. And I don't know
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:16.539
when this is going to go live and I will avoid
00:48:16.539 --> 00:48:19.420
being political, but it is, it's a rough season.
00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:24.340
It's a rough season. And I am working hard to
00:48:24.340 --> 00:48:27.000
find questions that I can ask of someone who
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:30.539
disagrees with me about something I feel strongly.
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:34.019
And I want questions I don't know the answer
00:48:34.019 --> 00:48:37.179
to and that I can ask authentically and with
00:48:37.179 --> 00:48:41.119
positive regard for the other person. And so
00:48:41.119 --> 00:48:44.900
what is really sticking in my head is how do
00:48:44.900 --> 00:48:47.820
I show up in conversations where there's conflict?
00:48:49.179 --> 00:48:51.159
And particularly conflict I feel emotionally,
00:48:51.460 --> 00:48:54.780
not work conflict over which business model are
00:48:54.780 --> 00:48:58.980
we going with, but where I feel the weight of
00:48:58.980 --> 00:49:02.820
it. It impacts people I love or my ideas of democracy.
00:49:03.599 --> 00:49:08.260
How do I show up in those moments and ask authentically
00:49:08.260 --> 00:49:11.480
curious questions with positive regard? Because
00:49:11.480 --> 00:49:15.380
I am absolutely convinced that our tendency to
00:49:15.380 --> 00:49:17.639
ask questions we know the answer to or to ask
00:49:17.639 --> 00:49:20.730
questions is. to frame them as a trap or a gotcha
00:49:20.730 --> 00:49:25.230
or to prove wrongness is only exacerbating problems,
00:49:25.429 --> 00:49:30.429
particularly in our families. I'm honest about
00:49:30.429 --> 00:49:33.650
my ability to influence the broader governmental
00:49:33.650 --> 00:49:37.090
processes, but I can have some influence in my
00:49:37.090 --> 00:49:40.170
family and my community, but I won't succeed
00:49:40.170 --> 00:49:45.789
if my agenda is overriding my authentic curiosity.
00:49:46.889 --> 00:49:49.369
And my ability to hold the humanity of another
00:49:49.369 --> 00:49:51.429
person as I ask them a question. And so that's
00:49:51.429 --> 00:49:54.889
what's really on my mind this week in human history
00:49:54.889 --> 00:49:59.730
and as a professional and a citizen. Thank you.
00:50:00.050 --> 00:50:03.449
Thank you. One of the things I think is interesting
00:50:03.449 --> 00:50:06.730
about that is some of the approaches that we've
00:50:06.730 --> 00:50:11.630
talked about are not necessarily apt for that
00:50:11.630 --> 00:50:16.219
circumstance. The Socratic method of I have the
00:50:16.219 --> 00:50:20.159
answer, but I'm going to ask to elicit learning
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:24.360
in you isn't the right way to go into that. Because
00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:31.579
you don't want to presume correctness, if you
00:50:31.579 --> 00:50:35.219
will, for lack of a better word. As you said,
00:50:35.320 --> 00:50:37.480
questions that you don't know the answers to.
00:50:39.380 --> 00:50:44.269
Yeah, I think that's... There is the moment in
00:50:44.269 --> 00:50:47.769
history that we're talking about, but then there's
00:50:47.769 --> 00:50:55.730
also just in terms of how we are as people together
00:50:55.730 --> 00:50:59.210
in moments of conflict. Because if you get two
00:50:59.210 --> 00:51:01.269
people in a room, you will have conflict eventually.
00:51:01.769 --> 00:51:04.630
I have conflict with myself. I don't need anyone
00:51:04.630 --> 00:51:14.349
else around. So are we able to navigate? with
00:51:14.349 --> 00:51:17.829
a questioning heart. That's what it comes down
00:51:17.829 --> 00:51:23.610
to. Yeah, some humility. Because the payout for
00:51:23.610 --> 00:51:28.250
that is not just conserving or preserving relationships.
00:51:28.750 --> 00:51:35.289
It's an opportunity to learn. That's right. Thank
00:51:35.289 --> 00:51:38.309
you, Amber. Thank you. It is always such a delight.
00:51:39.559 --> 00:51:43.559
I appreciate you giving me more time and more
00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:47.320
exposure to the way you think and all of your
00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:51.199
knowledge. Thank you. Thank you for sharing all
00:51:51.199 --> 00:51:53.920
of your ideas and the wonderful people you discover
00:51:53.920 --> 00:51:59.280
with the world. It's a gift. Thank you for joining
00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:02.019
me today. If this conversation sparked something
00:52:02.019 --> 00:52:04.639
useful, please follow the comfy chairs and leave
00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:07.719
a review. Those small actions help more people
00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:11.329
find the show. Got a leadership question you'd
00:52:11.329 --> 00:52:13.730
like featured in a future Comfey HQ episode?
00:52:14.190 --> 00:52:16.849
Please send it my way. I'd love to hear what's
00:52:16.849 --> 00:52:20.449
on your mind. And when you're ready to move from
00:52:20.449 --> 00:52:24.250
ideas into action, 123 Limited helps leaders
00:52:24.250 --> 00:52:27.789
build stronger teams, sharper strategies, and
00:52:27.789 --> 00:52:31.690
better talent plans. Learn more at 123limited
00:52:31.690 --> 00:52:37.449
.com. That's O -N -E -2 -3 -L -T -D dot com.
00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:39.159
Thanks for listening.