Making & Breaking Points with Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti

WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.780 --> 00:00:03.060
You know, I don't know when I'm going to leave
2
00:00:03.100 --> 00:00:04.639
this job. I don't know when I'm going to stay
3
00:00:04.660 --> 00:00:06.019
in this job. I don't know how these things are
4
00:00:06.040 --> 00:00:08.480
going to do, but when I do, you should replace
5
00:00:08.539 --> 00:00:15.320
me with indeed. You should call indeed when you're replacing me,
6
00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:19.690
because I listen, this podcast, it requires skills. You need
7
00:00:19.730 --> 00:00:24.390
a face. You need a pie hole so that you
8
00:00:24.410 --> 00:00:30.079
can open your pie hole and just spout. That's, Not
9
00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:35.359
everybody can do that. And so, you know, if you
10
00:00:35.380 --> 00:00:37.380
need to hire, you got to say to yourself, there's
11
00:00:37.409 --> 00:00:40.270
a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. You can reach candidates
12
00:00:40.289 --> 00:00:42.630
that meet your specific criteria. Like if you want them
13
00:00:42.670 --> 00:00:47.570
to have skills or a pie hole, certifications, maybe even
14
00:00:47.590 --> 00:00:49.969
you want to know what the location is. Only Indeed
15
00:00:50.030 --> 00:00:53.890
can get that stuff done efficiently. Trust me, you know,
16
00:00:54.250 --> 00:00:56.969
you got to kiss a lot of frogs unless you
17
00:00:57.090 --> 00:00:59.960
use one of these services there like Indeed. So spend
18
00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:03.119
less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who
19
00:01:03.140 --> 00:01:05.930
check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results.
20
00:01:06.890 --> 00:01:08.769
When you need the right person to cut through the chaos,
21
00:01:09.109 --> 00:01:14.310
this is a job for Indeed-sponsored jobs. And listeners of
22
00:01:14.349 --> 00:01:18.060
this show will get a $ 75 sponsored job credit to
23
00:01:18.079 --> 00:01:21.219
help get your job the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com
24
00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:25.939
slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now.
25
00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:28.739
and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed
26
00:01:28.819 --> 00:01:34.200
on this podcast, indeed.com slash podcast, terms and conditions apply.
27
00:01:34.939 --> 00:01:36.549
When you get older, you got to have yourself a
28
00:01:36.569 --> 00:01:40.310
little bit of the comfort. And that's where the avocado
29
00:01:40.370 --> 00:01:43.069
green mattress comes in, man. And unlike most mattress brands,
30
00:01:43.450 --> 00:01:46.310
they'll only sell you online. They do have stores too.
31
00:01:46.329 --> 00:01:48.180
You can go into a store, you can try them out.
32
00:01:48.620 --> 00:01:54.359
Unbelievably comfortable. Avocado mattress is designed for comfort, support, helping
33
00:01:54.409 --> 00:01:56.930
your body stay aligned. You know, the last time my
34
00:01:57.010 --> 00:02:02.090
body was aligned, it's been, I think it might've been
35
00:02:02.170 --> 00:02:05.230
the last time the Mets won the world series. That's
36
00:02:05.250 --> 00:02:08.099
how long it's been since it's been aligned. But these mattresses,
37
00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:12.439
avocado green mattress, responsibly sourced organic materials that are built
38
00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:17.240
to last. So get an avocado green mattress. Avocado products
39
00:02:17.300 --> 00:02:21.870
are made, not manufactured and thoughtfully crafted with real materials
40
00:02:22.169 --> 00:02:24.729
to deliver lasting comfort and support. You can experience them
41
00:02:24.750 --> 00:02:28.629
in person at an Avocado showroom or a premier retailer
42
00:02:28.669 --> 00:02:33.259
near you. Or shop online at avocadogreenmattress.com slash TWS to
43
00:02:33.300 --> 00:02:41.560
check out their mattress and furniture sale. It's avocadogreenmattress.com slash TWS. avocadogreenmattress.com
44
00:02:42.419 --> 00:02:56.090
slash TWS. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the weekly show podcast.
45
00:02:56.110 --> 00:02:59.009
My name is Jon Stewart. The final episode of the summer.
46
00:02:59.930 --> 00:03:02.330
We will be gone for the rest of August and
47
00:03:02.349 --> 00:03:07.340
I think coming back in early September. So been a
48
00:03:07.379 --> 00:03:11.500
delightful year. Obviously, tonight, I think, is the Wisconsin primary.
49
00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:13.639
We don't know what's going to happen. We'll probably discuss
50
00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:15.500
it during the episode, even though we have no idea
51
00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:19.969
what it's going to be. And then, you know, we'll
52
00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:22.050
talk about the other things. It's the dog days of summer.
53
00:03:23.020 --> 00:03:25.699
There's not a whole lot going on right now. It's
54
00:03:25.719 --> 00:03:28.879
a little bit quiet. Senate is on recess. The House
55
00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:32.689
on recess. I am going to go away. I've got
56
00:03:32.729 --> 00:03:36.729
a lovely, like a snorkel vacation planned in this beautiful
57
00:03:36.849 --> 00:03:40.990
crystal clear. It's, I probably am not pronouncing this right. Hormuz.
58
00:03:41.770 --> 00:03:47.580
Straight of Hormuz. Or we're going to say the, that's
59
00:03:47.620 --> 00:03:50.740
never going to fucking end. But we got a great
60
00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:53.979
show for today. I wanted to bring on a couple
61
00:03:54.020 --> 00:03:57.120
of folks that I feel like have been doing the
62
00:03:57.189 --> 00:04:01.150
kind of, I'm on the left, I'm on the right discussion.
63
00:04:01.169 --> 00:04:02.830
I feel like they do it in a way that
64
00:04:02.889 --> 00:04:05.569
engenders good faith. And so I wanted to highlight them
65
00:04:06.349 --> 00:04:09.530
on today's program. So let me get to them right now.
66
00:04:09.610 --> 00:04:13.889
We'll discuss all things left, right, populist, and otherwise. Please
67
00:04:13.930 --> 00:04:21.399
welcome to the program, the hosts of Breaking Points. Ladies
68
00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:24.550
and gentlemen, here we are, the final weekly show podcast
69
00:04:24.610 --> 00:04:28.329
before summer break. And we have the co-hosts of Breaking Points,
70
00:04:28.389 --> 00:04:30.850
Crystal Ball and Sagar and Jetty are joining us today
71
00:04:31.209 --> 00:04:34.490
to discuss all that is happening in the world. First
72
00:04:34.529 --> 00:04:36.389
of all, welcome, Crystal. Welcome, Sagar.
73
00:04:36.629 --> 00:04:37.209
Thanks for having us.
74
00:04:37.449 --> 00:04:38.680
Thank you so much for having us, John.
75
00:04:39.459 --> 00:04:44.959
I want to start by saying I don't feel comfortable
76
00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:48.019
seeing you two in separate spaces. Okay.
77
00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:52.079
We had a debate about that actually, but it just
78
00:04:52.120 --> 00:04:54.319
was a little bit technically easier this way. So I'm
79
00:04:54.339 --> 00:04:56.399
sorry that we made you uncomfortable.
80
00:04:56.779 --> 00:04:58.370
And same for you to see you at home in
81
00:04:58.379 --> 00:05:00.790
a t-shirt. It's, it's throwing me off from my childhood.
82
00:05:01.329 --> 00:05:04.089
Oh, dear God. If only you knew sucker, how painful
83
00:05:04.110 --> 00:05:07.089
it was for me to put on the suit for my,
84
00:05:07.449 --> 00:05:10.550
for my one 20 minutes a day and all that.
85
00:05:10.569 --> 00:05:12.529
That's actually why I left the show in 2015. I
86
00:05:12.569 --> 00:05:15.500
just decided, Hey man, couldn't take that anymore. I'm done
87
00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:20.139
with the button down. This is over. Uh, but we're
88
00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:24.240
delighted that you're both here. And I want to ask
89
00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:30.779
you because you're both, you're such an interesting dynamic. As
90
00:05:30.819 --> 00:05:35.139
you guys have worked together, do you find that your
91
00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:40.379
political opinions are starting to converge? Because I think the
92
00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:42.720
point of it is you sort of had a guy
93
00:05:42.740 --> 00:05:45.310
a little bit on the right, you know, Sagar, you'd
94
00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:48.209
worked at Daily Caller, you'd done some things, Crystal, more
95
00:05:48.250 --> 00:05:49.550
on the left, but as I listen to you guys,
96
00:05:49.709 --> 00:05:54.089
I find there is a great deal, not just of respect,
97
00:05:54.870 --> 00:06:01.569
but convergence. And I can't think of another show where
98
00:06:01.829 --> 00:06:04.509
sort of the idea is to get those contrasting viewpoints
99
00:06:04.910 --> 00:06:08.370
that has had that. Is that how you're experiencing it?
100
00:06:09.550 --> 00:06:12.410
I would say it depends very much on the moment
101
00:06:12.449 --> 00:06:15.209
of the news cycle. So if you had been watching
102
00:06:15.310 --> 00:06:19.860
us regularly leading up to Trump's victory or after Trump's
103
00:06:19.899 --> 00:06:23.199
victory when we were talking about immigration and mass deportation
104
00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:25.500
and Seacott or even today we had a big debate
105
00:06:25.540 --> 00:06:28.959
about like woke 1.0. You might get a different impression.
106
00:06:29.379 --> 00:06:32.269
But the concept of the show, you know, from the beginning,
107
00:06:32.350 --> 00:06:35.750
even predating the current iteration of Breaking Points was, OK,
108
00:06:35.769 --> 00:06:39.220
if we got the best faith interpretation of the populist
109
00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:41.920
right in conversation with the populist left, what would that
110
00:06:41.980 --> 00:06:44.819
look like? And my theory is that there would be
111
00:06:45.139 --> 00:06:48.160
different overlap than you might find on sort of the
112
00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:51.500
traditional like crossfire to name a throwback.
113
00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:53.579
Oh, I just got it. Something just.
114
00:06:53.930 --> 00:06:56.889
The typical crossfire sort of cable news dynamic. And so
115
00:06:56.930 --> 00:06:58.750
I think that's what you're picking up on. And certainly
116
00:06:58.810 --> 00:07:01.990
on the Iran war, on changing the relationship with Israel,
117
00:07:03.230 --> 00:07:05.589
on economic issues, there is a lot of overlap there.
118
00:07:05.930 --> 00:07:08.430
I think the thing you said, Crystal, that resonates the
119
00:07:08.470 --> 00:07:10.709
most with me is best faith.
120
00:07:10.970 --> 00:07:11.110
Mm-hmm.
121
00:07:11.449 --> 00:07:13.829
Good faith. I think, and Sagar, maybe that's what I'm
122
00:07:14.069 --> 00:07:16.689
thinking of. It might not be a convergence of opinion.
123
00:07:17.069 --> 00:07:19.970
It's that it's a good faith discussion. Yeah.
124
00:07:20.029 --> 00:07:21.750
I mean, one of the things that we both really
125
00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:24.420
built our show around is like a rejection of cable
126
00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:27.699
news and just not only the format, but the very
127
00:07:27.779 --> 00:07:30.160
way in which they want to increase division. And we
128
00:07:30.180 --> 00:07:33.379
have plenty of division, which we showcase very openly and honestly,
129
00:07:33.420 --> 00:07:35.230
as you just pointed out, Crystal, about our woke one
130
00:07:36.100 --> 00:07:38.639
But in it, there was a good faith. I mean,
131
00:07:38.660 --> 00:07:40.519
Crystal heard me out and I heard her out and
132
00:07:40.540 --> 00:07:43.670
we gave our counterpoints and there was no like yelling
133
00:07:43.730 --> 00:07:46.610
or screaming at each other. I also whenever you're talking
134
00:07:46.649 --> 00:07:49.569
about convergence, I think that one of the things that
135
00:07:49.629 --> 00:07:53.259
really comes with respect is understanding. And so we've been
136
00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:54.839
doing this, you know, not just this show, but our
137
00:07:54.860 --> 00:07:56.959
previous iteration of the show for almost like seven or
138
00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:57.490
eight years now.
139
00:07:57.949 --> 00:08:00.319
What was that one, the rising? What was the first one?
140
00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:01.120
It was rising.
141
00:08:01.149 --> 00:08:01.939
That's it, rising, yeah.
142
00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:04.139
And one of the things that comes with that is
143
00:08:04.180 --> 00:08:07.680
you come to understand very deeply where other people are
144
00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:11.199
coming from. And it's really useful because it helps not
145
00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:13.819
only in your interactions politically, but like even in your
146
00:08:13.980 --> 00:08:16.740
everyday life. Like when you hear somebody say something, you
147
00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:18.779
can understand where previously it would have been like, what
148
00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:21.879
an idiot. You're like, okay, I see how you got
149
00:08:21.959 --> 00:08:25.000
to that conclusion because of the information you took in
150
00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:28.250
or your worldview is just fundamentally really different. than my worldview.
151
00:08:28.310 --> 00:08:30.430
And there's a level of acceptance with that. One of
152
00:08:30.470 --> 00:08:32.750
the best compliments that we both get, you know, if
153
00:08:32.789 --> 00:08:35.009
we're in public or something is like, you really helped
154
00:08:35.029 --> 00:08:37.509
my relationship with my dad. You know, you just helped
155
00:08:37.529 --> 00:08:40.980
me understand like where my dad was coming from whenever
156
00:08:41.019 --> 00:08:43.340
he would rant about X, Y, and Z. Like I
157
00:08:43.460 --> 00:08:45.679
understood why, and then, or vice versa, you know, like
158
00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:47.879
help my relationship with my kid and like my kids
159
00:08:47.899 --> 00:08:50.879
really into DSA. And like, I don't understand what that is.
160
00:08:50.919 --> 00:08:53.019
But when I hear crystal talk about it, it's like, okay,
161
00:08:53.179 --> 00:08:56.220
like I, I kind of start to make sense to me.
162
00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:59.419
And so, In that way, it's really edifying and part
163
00:08:59.460 --> 00:09:01.159
of the reason why I love doing the show.
164
00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:03.519
As you've come together, and now it's been, as you said,
165
00:09:03.659 --> 00:09:08.360
seven years, does it help you also identify the bad
166
00:09:08.500 --> 00:09:15.779
faith actors in our political and media hellscape? Has there
167
00:09:15.820 --> 00:09:19.320
been a way for you to discern, oh, these people
168
00:09:19.419 --> 00:09:22.970
are performative, these people are bad faith, and do you
169
00:09:23.889 --> 00:09:26.330
Do you avoid that now, avoid those folks, or do
170
00:09:26.389 --> 00:09:27.950
you expose? both.
171
00:09:28.070 --> 00:09:28.590
It's a mix.
172
00:09:28.669 --> 00:09:28.990
Yeah.
173
00:09:29.070 --> 00:09:31.710
I mean, definitely that is certainly the case. And look,
174
00:09:31.889 --> 00:09:35.580
I have become less tolerant of a lot of pundits
175
00:09:35.620 --> 00:09:39.039
on the right. There are very few who are actually
176
00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:40.840
on the right that I would work with at this point,
177
00:09:40.879 --> 00:09:43.120
because I just think there's so much lies and propaganda
178
00:09:43.139 --> 00:09:45.860
there that to deal with that on a daily basis
179
00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:48.039
would not be productive. You know, if you're doing a
180
00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:51.139
debate and you're having an engagement, you're trying to expose,
181
00:09:51.179 --> 00:09:54.659
that's one thing. But to work together with someone every day,
182
00:09:54.740 --> 00:09:58.639
as you know, is an entirely different relationship. So, for example,
183
00:09:58.860 --> 00:10:00.840
in the wake of your John Fetterman interview, I don't
184
00:10:00.860 --> 00:10:02.480
think that is someone I could work with every day.
185
00:10:02.500 --> 00:10:05.460
I'm not sure John Fetterman is working with John Fetterman
186
00:10:05.500 --> 00:10:05.879
every day.
187
00:10:05.940 --> 00:10:08.340
Just bad faith arguments, a lack of an ability to
188
00:10:08.379 --> 00:10:11.090
really even grapple with the questions that you're asking, etc.
189
00:10:11.139 --> 00:10:11.669
Yeah.
190
00:10:11.730 --> 00:10:14.250
But what has made it work with Sager is we've
191
00:10:14.289 --> 00:10:18.850
had some very heated debates, very hot and over issues
192
00:10:18.889 --> 00:10:21.289
that we both care a lot about and I think
193
00:10:21.330 --> 00:10:24.809
are very consequential. What makes it work over the long
194
00:10:24.870 --> 00:10:28.070
term is that we're both capable of saying, you know what,
195
00:10:28.090 --> 00:10:29.370
I got it wrong there. You were right.
196
00:10:29.409 --> 00:10:30.049
You had a point.
197
00:10:30.450 --> 00:10:32.269
And I think over the long term, that's part of
198
00:10:32.309 --> 00:10:34.399
what is built, the trust that enables it.
199
00:10:34.730 --> 00:10:37.929
I totally agree. And like, you know, vice versa, I think,
200
00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:39.460
you know, especially at the height of a lot of
201
00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:43.490
Pretty crazy moments, 2020 and others. There are not a
202
00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:46.049
lot of people I think who I could have stomached.
203
00:10:46.289 --> 00:10:48.029
But yeah, I mean, as Crystal said, it can get
204
00:10:48.070 --> 00:10:50.169
hot and that's fine. I actually think it's healthy.
205
00:10:50.210 --> 00:10:50.710
It's normal.
206
00:10:51.129 --> 00:10:53.710
It's reflective of literally the nature of the country. We're
207
00:10:53.730 --> 00:10:56.269
literally living through one of the most tumultuous times, I think,
208
00:10:56.370 --> 00:10:58.419
in modern American history. It's probably akin to the 1960s.
209
00:10:59.549 --> 00:11:00.929
in a lot of different ways. Or actually, maybe the
210
00:11:00.950 --> 00:11:02.710
70s is a better comparison.
211
00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:05.460
Here's what's sad. I think I'm the only one who's
212
00:11:05.500 --> 00:11:07.720
lived through both of those. So if you have any.
213
00:11:07.620 --> 00:11:09.879
Questions- That's true. I've only read about it, John.
214
00:11:10.340 --> 00:11:13.340
I am happy. I'm happy to tell you about it. Right.
215
00:11:13.379 --> 00:11:15.399
But I mean, John, since you were there, you know
216
00:11:15.580 --> 00:11:19.549
that that was a moment of very actually limited public debate.
217
00:11:19.870 --> 00:11:21.950
And in my opinion, one of the reasons why things
218
00:11:22.009 --> 00:11:25.250
went really wrong was because of the convergence of the
219
00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:27.970
mass media era. For me, this is honestly surreal to
220
00:11:27.990 --> 00:11:30.570
be able to talk to you because you were so
221
00:11:30.710 --> 00:11:35.330
instrumental for me as a kid who is growing up
222
00:11:35.389 --> 00:11:39.090
in Bush country, hearing these lies about the Iraq war.
223
00:11:39.470 --> 00:11:42.600
There is only one place that I could go to
224
00:11:42.929 --> 00:11:46.419
to expose this level of hysteria and nonsense, which I
225
00:11:46.460 --> 00:11:50.840
just hear propagated all day long on all three And
226
00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:53.679
that was at a time of total ubiquity in mass media,
227
00:11:53.710 --> 00:11:55.210
part of the reason that we got into the war
228
00:11:55.509 --> 00:11:57.889
that we did. And it went as long as we did.
229
00:11:58.009 --> 00:12:00.830
I think that the Iran war is, look, it's a disaster,
230
00:12:01.049 --> 00:12:03.070
but it is a hopeful story in that the poll
231
00:12:03.129 --> 00:12:06.759
numbers went south immediately. A huge amount of the American
232
00:12:06.820 --> 00:12:10.860
public is getting their information back. sources or different from
233
00:12:10.899 --> 00:12:13.899
sources like us, many others who are out there who
234
00:12:13.940 --> 00:12:16.720
are able to expose the absolute holes in all of
235
00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:19.379
the propaganda that the Pentagon or the White House is
236
00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:21.840
able to put out. And so, look, it's a disaster
237
00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:24.179
that we're in this, but it's actually a hopeful story
238
00:12:24.220 --> 00:12:27.120
that the public turned on it almost immediately. And so
239
00:12:27.159 --> 00:12:29.220
that we didn't have that edifice to prop it up
240
00:12:29.259 --> 00:12:30.080
that we did at that time.
241
00:12:30.179 --> 00:12:32.259
Well, let me ask you a question because it brings
242
00:12:32.350 --> 00:12:35.269
up sort of the incentives of those systems that created that.
243
00:12:35.289 --> 00:12:37.590
Because I think you're You make a nice point about
244
00:12:37.610 --> 00:12:40.730
the 60s and 70s being tumultuous in that same way.
245
00:12:42.350 --> 00:12:46.000
I think the Iran war has gone south in some
246
00:12:46.029 --> 00:12:51.080
ways because this administration doesn't respect us enough to lie
247
00:12:51.100 --> 00:12:54.700
to us. They kind of don't give a shit what
248
00:12:54.759 --> 00:13:00.039
we think. And in the 60s and 70s, the lies
249
00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:04.480
were generally, you know, media has found a way, the
250
00:13:04.519 --> 00:13:12.580
incentives of it. to get weaponized. Bad faith actors weaponize it, right?
251
00:13:13.899 --> 00:13:16.860
The ubiquity of cable news was at first, and TV
252
00:13:16.899 --> 00:13:21.759
in general, in the 60s and 70s, politicians weren't quite
253
00:13:21.820 --> 00:13:24.250
sure what to do with TV. And you remember the
254
00:13:24.470 --> 00:13:28.429
debate between Kennedy and Nixon. And Kennedy went out there
255
00:13:28.490 --> 00:13:30.830
and he understood that television is a visual medium and
256
00:13:30.870 --> 00:13:33.350
Nixon was like, I don't need makeup, I look great.
257
00:13:35.019 --> 00:13:39.440
And he got his ass kicked on the TV side.
258
00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:41.259
But if you listen to it on the radio, people
259
00:13:41.299 --> 00:13:45.879
thought Nixon won. Do you think it's, in some respects,
260
00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:52.120
the media has just, politics has figured out how to
261
00:13:52.220 --> 00:13:57.000
weaponize media. Is that fair to say? Like you just
262
00:13:57.039 --> 00:14:00.769
talked about all these bad faith actors, right? They exist
263
00:14:01.169 --> 00:14:04.429
as part of a political ecosystem. As a way of,
264
00:14:04.470 --> 00:14:07.429
you know, Roger Ailes very famously said, I want to
265
00:14:07.470 --> 00:14:11.389
create something so that what happened to Nixon could never
266
00:14:11.470 --> 00:14:16.230
happen to another Republican president. You know, sometimes we separate
267
00:14:16.350 --> 00:14:20.210
media and politics. But isn't it true that in a
268
00:14:20.330 --> 00:14:23.789
lot of ways, there's a symbiosis? A lot of it's
269
00:14:23.830 --> 00:14:28.110
been co-opted by politics. And I'm curious what you think
270
00:14:28.149 --> 00:14:29.490
of that. And we can talk a little bit about
271
00:14:29.529 --> 00:14:31.330
breaking down those ecosystems. Yeah.
272
00:14:31.850 --> 00:14:33.850
I mean, I think it's a double edged sword on
273
00:14:33.870 --> 00:14:37.610
the one hand. Absolutely. And the amount of propaganda, the
274
00:14:37.629 --> 00:14:40.230
amount of lies, you know, you go on Twitter now
275
00:14:40.470 --> 00:14:43.220
X and there's all these accounts that are just AI
276
00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:45.779
slop accounts feeding all kinds of nonsense. It makes it
277
00:14:45.820 --> 00:14:48.659
very difficult actually to sort out what's happening in the war,
278
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:51.720
not to mention there's a total war. censorship lockdown on
279
00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:54.720
the U.S. as part of what is happening in the region.
280
00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:56.919
On the flip side of it, though, there's also a
281
00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:59.620
hopeful story there because in its best incarnation, you know,
282
00:14:59.659 --> 00:15:01.830
they haven't been able to cover up the horrors and genocide.
283
00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:04.590
People watch that in 4K themselves and they took their
284
00:15:04.710 --> 00:15:07.269
own moral opinion of what was happening there and it
285
00:15:07.350 --> 00:15:11.049
went directly against what the bipartisan elite consensus had been
286
00:15:11.129 --> 00:15:13.210
for years and years. I think you're right that it's
287
00:15:13.450 --> 00:15:16.139
insulting that they didn't even bother to lie to us
288
00:15:16.179 --> 00:15:19.019
this time before the war. I think it also reflects
289
00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:21.100
the fact that Donald Trump doesn't feel that he needs
290
00:15:21.139 --> 00:15:24.159
to go through the mechanisms of democracy. We just have
291
00:15:24.179 --> 00:15:27.570
to swallow whatever insanity he's going to do But I
292
00:15:27.610 --> 00:15:29.889
also think the fact that you have so many dissenting
293
00:15:29.950 --> 00:15:34.190
voices in new media that were critical from the beginning
294
00:15:34.250 --> 00:15:37.350
and able to expose the very thin level of propaganda
295
00:15:37.649 --> 00:15:39.450
that had been fed to us has also been a
296
00:15:39.470 --> 00:15:42.960
positive point. Now, I get concerned because there are also–
297
00:15:43.389 --> 00:15:46.529
Legacy media has its advantages. There was a real tradition
298
00:15:46.590 --> 00:15:51.620
and a firewall between opinion and the journalist part and
299
00:15:51.659 --> 00:15:54.419
the advertising, and those walls fall down in new media.
300
00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:56.620
But overall, I think when you look at those two
301
00:15:56.659 --> 00:16:00.460
stories in particular, you can see that it has helped
302
00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:06.470
to create a better atmosphere for small-D democratic understanding of
303
00:16:06.570 --> 00:16:08.940
what these wars and what this genocide actually are.
304
00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:12.080
I think that's a really important point. It's a double-edged sword,
305
00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:14.549
as Crystal said. I compare it to the invention of
306
00:16:14.590 --> 00:16:17.669
the printing press. I mean, that's how the internet— seriously, that's
307
00:16:17.690 --> 00:16:33.139
what the internet— But of course, nobody would say, well, yeah,
308
00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:34.990
the invention of the printing press was bad. It was
309
00:16:35.029 --> 00:16:37.830
just it unleashed a new medium of debate. Much of
310
00:16:37.889 --> 00:16:41.509
it was propaganda, actually pornography, one of the original inventions
311
00:16:41.629 --> 00:16:44.840
of the printing press of mass distribution, just like the Internet.
312
00:16:45.139 --> 00:16:47.779
But what it demonstrated, I think, on a long enough
313
00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:50.549
timeline was a more. informed public. And that's the thing.
314
00:16:50.590 --> 00:16:53.129
We're working things out, as Crystal said. And this is
315
00:16:53.169 --> 00:16:55.330
where I think all of us can be upfront and honest.
316
00:16:55.490 --> 00:16:57.990
We are in a difficult position because we are people
317
00:16:58.049 --> 00:17:00.090
who do the news, but Crystal and I are also
318
00:17:00.230 --> 00:17:04.430
business owners. We co-own our company, but we set rules
319
00:17:04.569 --> 00:17:07.950
at the very beginning. We do not read ads, period,
320
00:17:08.049 --> 00:17:10.769
because we believe that if we did so, it could
321
00:17:10.789 --> 00:17:13.990
potentially compromise things in the future. Now, we know that
322
00:17:14.009 --> 00:17:18.519
we have sacrificed literally like multiple zeros of income. However,
323
00:17:18.579 --> 00:17:22.230
what we've decided instead was to build a more anti-fragile business.
324
00:17:22.569 --> 00:17:25.430
For example, like we have a premium subscription program. We
325
00:17:25.470 --> 00:17:27.970
have YouTube revenue. You know, we have like dynamic ads,
326
00:17:27.990 --> 00:17:30.079
which are not ads that we read, which we have
327
00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:32.670
no negotiation with. or interesting, but it took a level
328
00:17:32.710 --> 00:17:36.190
of intentionality. However, though, there's no reason that we had
329
00:17:36.250 --> 00:17:38.910
to do that. If we wanted to read Manscaped.
330
00:17:38.529 --> 00:17:40.029
As- And most people are not doing that.
331
00:17:40.049 --> 00:17:40.210
Exactly.
332
00:17:40.250 --> 00:17:41.509
And are not going to do that. Yeah.
333
00:17:41.549 --> 00:17:43.230
And most people are not doing that and are much
334
00:17:43.289 --> 00:17:46.069
richer than us as a result. But we believe in
335
00:17:46.089 --> 00:17:46.730
the long.
336
00:17:46.509 --> 00:17:49.069
Run it'll work out. You're starting to make me sweat,
337
00:17:49.589 --> 00:17:53.309
and it's why I look to Quince to create a
338
00:17:53.349 --> 00:18:04.119
new wardrobe. Hey, folks, I know you're trying to figure
339
00:18:04.150 --> 00:18:06.950
out ways to skip through these little ad reads here.
340
00:18:07.299 --> 00:18:09.640
I get that. I know. I know what you're doing.
341
00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:12.140
I know you're looking into that Spotify thing. Yeah, listen,
342
00:18:12.900 --> 00:18:16.549
I'm not blind, you bastards. And to be honest with you,
343
00:18:16.599 --> 00:18:19.299
I'm not crazy about reading them in the first place, generally,
344
00:18:19.740 --> 00:18:23.380
except for this one, Ground News. You know, I'm always
345
00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:25.180
going to go to bat for the Ground News. Ground News,
346
00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:30.759
because it's, I hate the news. I hate what it's
347
00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:34.180
doing to me emotionally. I hate that you don't really
348
00:18:34.220 --> 00:18:36.420
know where the information is coming from. Sometimes you don't
349
00:18:36.460 --> 00:18:40.420
know how it's being manipulated and it adds to the
350
00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:43.950
creeping fog of sadness that grows. But I have to
351
00:18:43.990 --> 00:18:45.630
keep up. I have to understand what's going on in
352
00:18:45.650 --> 00:18:49.150
the world. And that's why Ground News, they've got a website.
353
00:18:49.190 --> 00:18:51.369
It's an app. You can see how different news outlets
354
00:18:51.569 --> 00:18:55.849
will frame the same story. They've got a blind spot
355
00:18:56.009 --> 00:19:00.119
feed so you can challenge yourself about your news consumption.
356
00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:03.359
To get the same unlimited access to the Vantage subscription,
357
00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:08.420
go to groundnews.com slash Stuart and subscribe to get 40% off.
358
00:19:08.460 --> 00:19:12.099
Discount only available for a limited time. That's groundnews.com slash
359
00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:20.009
Stuart or scan the QR code on screen. But Sagar,
360
00:19:20.029 --> 00:19:24.029
so this is really interesting to me because we're talking
361
00:19:24.089 --> 00:19:28.329
about media independence. And when you think of independence, I
362
00:19:28.390 --> 00:19:31.119
think At large, you think of it as media independence
363
00:19:31.140 --> 00:19:36.720
from corporate interest. We're not owned by Universal or GE
364
00:19:36.809 --> 00:19:40.750
or any of these things. But independence is also, are
365
00:19:40.789 --> 00:19:46.930
you independent from a political motivation? Yes. That's another form
366
00:19:46.970 --> 00:19:48.930
of independence. And a lot of people, I think, are
367
00:19:48.970 --> 00:19:53.009
captured politically. by that. But the third avenue of independence,
368
00:19:53.930 --> 00:19:57.259
and I wonder about this for you, is what are
369
00:19:57.299 --> 00:20:01.779
your incentives to the audience? You know, when you say
370
00:20:01.819 --> 00:20:05.339
we have a subscription model and all that, and do
371
00:20:05.380 --> 00:20:08.579
the incentives of, look, we all know in an attention economy,
372
00:20:09.450 --> 00:20:14.880
What sells the most is probably outrage, anger, and those things.
373
00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:19.140
So how do you and your model avoid being captured
374
00:20:19.259 --> 00:20:24.819
by the rage of the townspeople? How do you avoid
375
00:20:24.920 --> 00:20:26.339
pitchforks and torches?
376
00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:29.769
Well, that's why we're really blessed. Honestly, it's a right-left show.
377
00:20:30.250 --> 00:20:33.089
So at any given time, a decent portion of the
378
00:20:33.130 --> 00:20:37.140
audience is mad. So that's actually built into... It works well.
379
00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:38.400
It works really well.
380
00:20:38.420 --> 00:20:40.460
We're going to be hated no matter what by some portion.
381
00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:43.480
We are very often hated by our own pain. We
382
00:20:43.509 --> 00:20:46.329
might have one of the most ignominious honors of being
383
00:20:46.450 --> 00:20:48.990
often hated by the people who pay us. But that's
384
00:20:49.049 --> 00:20:52.109
built in, as I said. So at various different times,
385
00:20:52.250 --> 00:20:55.109
we've gone through these types of events before. People are
386
00:20:55.150 --> 00:20:57.349
mad that you said X, Y, or Z. But because
387
00:20:57.390 --> 00:21:01.089
of our political independence and the right-left kind of dynamic
388
00:21:01.109 --> 00:21:04.049
that is baked in to the heart of the program...
389
00:21:04.099 --> 00:21:06.440
It means that there are always new people who also
390
00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:09.170
show up. That's one of the things where a lot
391
00:21:09.190 --> 00:21:11.009
of the– and you actually can see this. There's a
392
00:21:11.049 --> 00:21:13.710
lot of articles about MAGA media and how it's collapsing.
393
00:21:14.190 --> 00:21:17.670
As enthusiasm in MAGA and the project with Donald Trump,
394
00:21:17.730 --> 00:21:20.559
especially with younger men, starts to go down, people who
395
00:21:20.619 --> 00:21:24.059
went all in on just Trump alone or on right-wing media.
396
00:21:24.369 --> 00:21:27.769
so-called media, are seeing a dramatic reduction in their overall
397
00:21:27.809 --> 00:21:30.309
revenue and views, because that's just not really what people
398
00:21:30.650 --> 00:21:32.589
want to hear right now. That is just not something
399
00:21:32.630 --> 00:21:35.089
that could ever happen to us, because Crystal would always
400
00:21:35.150 --> 00:21:38.039
represent a side of somebody who's critical of MAGA, right?
401
00:21:38.220 --> 00:21:41.200
I mean, even I am, obviously, as well, but vice versa,
402
00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:44.519
let's say whenever Joe Biden was president. And so we're
403
00:21:44.619 --> 00:21:48.059
very lucky, honestly, in the way that we designed everything.
404
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:50.970
But what you're laying out is a very real problem,
405
00:21:51.049 --> 00:21:54.450
and it explains grifterism, which is basically people who have
406
00:21:54.470 --> 00:21:58.930
to continue it going, manufacture and create new type of
407
00:21:58.970 --> 00:22:02.930
controversies purely for an economic incentive, which isn't enough of
408
00:22:02.970 --> 00:22:04.009
a cancer that we have today.
409
00:22:04.369 --> 00:22:04.609
Yeah.
410
00:22:04.670 --> 00:22:07.170
I mean, audience capture is very real. You can kind of,
411
00:22:07.210 --> 00:22:09.519
if you're watching channels closely, you can tell who's just
412
00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:11.880
catering to their audience and what they think, you know,
413
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:16.099
an algorithm wants them to produce. But I also want
414
00:22:16.119 --> 00:22:18.619
to say with regard to the fury and the pitchforks,
415
00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:20.980
like I think people have good reason to be furious
416
00:22:21.019 --> 00:22:24.130
right now. I think both on an economic level, we've
417
00:22:24.150 --> 00:22:26.569
been thrust into this war that basically no one wanted,
418
00:22:26.609 --> 00:22:29.410
that is devastating for the global economy. It's first and
419
00:22:29.450 --> 00:22:34.119
foremost devastating for Iranians and Iranian civilians. We have had
420
00:22:34.130 --> 00:22:37.299
our taxpayer dollars used to fund a genocide that, again,
421
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:40.880
the public has vociferously turned against. And we have a
422
00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:44.240
system that is rigged by an oligarch class. So I
423
00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:47.059
think talking about those things, the way that the AI
424
00:22:47.180 --> 00:22:51.799
oligarchs literally want to take everyone's jobs... Yeah, people should
425
00:22:51.819 --> 00:22:55.119
get angry about that. Those are things that should infuriate you.
426
00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:57.440
And so we don't shy away from that. You know,
427
00:22:57.460 --> 00:22:59.670
I think to be informed right now is to be
428
00:22:59.809 --> 00:23:01.049
angry and furious about the.
429
00:23:00.990 --> 00:23:01.710
State of affairs.
430
00:23:02.430 --> 00:23:05.250
Let me ask you, because it's, you know, it's such
431
00:23:05.289 --> 00:23:07.950
an interesting thing to point out how many real things
432
00:23:08.009 --> 00:23:12.029
there are that can shock the conscience of people. And yet,
433
00:23:13.029 --> 00:23:15.750
I think if I'm being fair about where the real
434
00:23:15.970 --> 00:23:18.720
energy of the debate is right now, It's whether or
435
00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:22.319
not Ennis Cantor is going to get drafted into the WNBA.
436
00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:28.299
Like the real outrage in this country and culture doesn't
437
00:23:28.339 --> 00:23:34.930
seem to be about those very real points you just articulated, Kristen.
438
00:23:34.970 --> 00:23:37.109
And to me, Sagar may have a different take on this,
439
00:23:37.190 --> 00:23:39.430
but to me, it's very obvious what's going on here.
440
00:23:39.970 --> 00:23:43.650
Trump's approval is in the toilet. His war is a disaster.
441
00:23:43.670 --> 00:23:47.579
The economic numbers are trashed. People are furious.
442
00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:51.079
I think it's the greatest economy this country's ever had.
443
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:52.039
I forgot about that.
444
00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:57.029
Yes. According to Fox News. Absolutely. And Republicans are facing
445
00:23:57.309 --> 00:24:00.930
what is likely to be a landslide defeat in the midterms.
446
00:24:01.309 --> 00:24:02.990
So what are they doing? They're going back to the
447
00:24:03.029 --> 00:24:06.609
culture war bag of tricks. Here's a shiny object. that
448
00:24:06.670 --> 00:24:09.210
I can tangle over at Fox News to get our
449
00:24:09.349 --> 00:24:11.950
own base back in line. But I actually don't think
450
00:24:11.990 --> 00:24:15.690
that that's what's driving, for example, the electoral results that
451
00:24:15.710 --> 00:24:18.319
we're seeing in Democratic primaries across the country and likely
452
00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:20.579
to see in the general election in the fall. There,
453
00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:23.980
to me, the number one issue is very likely the economy,
454
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:26.059
but it's also horror at a foreign policy that is
455
00:24:26.099 --> 00:24:28.140
both expensive and deeply immoral.
456
00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:31.599
Yeah, John, I would push back a bit. I agree
457
00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:32.079
with you.
458
00:24:32.380 --> 00:24:33.420
What? How dare you, sir?
459
00:24:33.890 --> 00:24:37.849
Well, I just think it's reflective maybe of a cable
460
00:24:37.890 --> 00:24:41.349
news bias, because you're right. I believe the WNBA was
461
00:24:41.390 --> 00:24:46.210
the second most mentioned topic on Fox News this week.
462
00:24:46.519 --> 00:24:49.380
And that's probably true of the 65 plus crowd, if
463
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:51.759
I were to go and ask them. However, the segments
464
00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:54.839
that perform best on our channel are things about the
465
00:24:54.880 --> 00:25:01.170
housing crisis, are about flock cameras. data centers, AI displacement
466
00:25:01.250 --> 00:25:04.609
and job loss, foreign policy. I mean, I never thought
467
00:25:04.670 --> 00:25:06.839
I would have my dream job of being able to
468
00:25:06.890 --> 00:25:09.779
speak to guys like Professor John Mearsheimer, who was my
469
00:25:09.859 --> 00:25:12.700
literal idol, for over like an hour and a half
470
00:25:12.779 --> 00:25:15.700
and have him describe like great power politics and the
471
00:25:15.740 --> 00:25:19.359
Iran war and watch millions of people want to engage
472
00:25:19.700 --> 00:25:23.450
with that type of content. And so I do think like, look,
473
00:25:23.630 --> 00:25:26.910
are we amusing ourselves to death? Empirically, yes. I mean,
474
00:25:27.009 --> 00:25:29.529
not just in terms of sports, but with gambling and
475
00:25:29.549 --> 00:25:31.930
many of the other vices which are exploding in our
476
00:25:31.970 --> 00:25:35.369
current society. However, what we always also point out on
477
00:25:35.410 --> 00:25:39.730
the show, that is derivative of real problems like housing,
478
00:25:40.130 --> 00:25:42.809
which is the one I would say we see the
479
00:25:42.990 --> 00:25:46.130
most consistent rage in terms of not just our audience,
480
00:25:46.170 --> 00:25:51.069
but in our demographic. And it is downstream of so
481
00:25:51.109 --> 00:25:54.769
many of the other problems that we face as a society.
482
00:25:54.869 --> 00:25:56.269
And so- Can I also- Yeah, go ahead.
483
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:58.599
Can I also just say, John, that I think, too,
484
00:25:59.259 --> 00:26:01.039
the revelation– this will feel like a bit of a
485
00:26:01.059 --> 00:26:04.069
left turn– but the revelations in the Epstein files of
486
00:26:04.109 --> 00:26:07.750
the way that this powerful elite actually has this incredible
487
00:26:07.869 --> 00:26:11.309
class solidarity and the way that they operate– I think
488
00:26:11.369 --> 00:26:14.609
it's blown some of the lid off of this idea that,
489
00:26:14.650 --> 00:26:16.910
you know, what we should really be focused on is
490
00:26:17.349 --> 00:26:21.190
trans people or these culture war debates because we've been
491
00:26:21.230 --> 00:26:24.529
able to see the way the powerful actually work in
492
00:26:24.549 --> 00:26:27.450
the world and the view that they have of the
493
00:26:27.529 --> 00:26:30.069
rest of us. And so I think that that has
494
00:26:30.109 --> 00:26:33.319
been a very educational and illuminating experience for people as
495
00:26:33.390 --> 00:26:36.119
well as they process some of these like new red
496
00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:38.359
meat culture war debates that are thrown into the mix.
497
00:26:39.210 --> 00:26:41.089
Yeah. It's just hard to imagine, you know, when we
498
00:26:41.130 --> 00:26:44.170
talk about and the importance of it, all these things
499
00:26:44.210 --> 00:26:47.170
that you're bringing up are, are truly important. And yet
500
00:26:47.210 --> 00:26:52.509
there's been no accountability for, for any of it. Correct.
501
00:26:52.690 --> 00:26:57.450
And it seems like what there is accountability for either
502
00:26:57.509 --> 00:27:03.549
legislatively or otherwise are culture war issues that like, I'll
503
00:27:03.730 --> 00:27:07.430
give you an example, you know, the save act being, uh,
504
00:27:07.930 --> 00:27:11.170
you know, uh, at the forefront of so much of
505
00:27:11.230 --> 00:27:14.470
the problems that were going on in the Senate right now.
506
00:27:14.549 --> 00:27:17.950
And the liberals, they don't want, they want illegals who
507
00:27:17.990 --> 00:27:21.359
are voting in millions of numbers, not to, you know,
508
00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:25.220
show an ID, you know, just utter nonsense that gets
509
00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:28.400
thrown out there or the trans debate as being at
510
00:27:28.460 --> 00:27:31.740
the forefront of what's in everybody's minds about the debt,
511
00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:36.950
like nuance is utterly removed through the process of our
512
00:27:37.009 --> 00:27:40.390
media and our politics. Yet the things that you talk
513
00:27:40.450 --> 00:27:45.819
about that are facing Americans or are making them question
514
00:27:45.859 --> 00:27:51.250
the legitimacy of our institutions are never addressed, seemingly with
515
00:27:51.309 --> 00:27:52.130
no accountability.
516
00:27:52.750 --> 00:27:53.089
Yeah.
517
00:27:53.150 --> 00:27:54.690
I mean, that's kind of the core of our show.
518
00:27:54.849 --> 00:27:55.250
Go ahead.
519
00:27:55.269 --> 00:27:57.710
Can I give you another example of that, John, which
520
00:27:57.789 --> 00:27:59.940
is very much top of news cycle right now? So
521
00:27:59.960 --> 00:28:03.359
there's this whole controversy about Hassan Piker and whether or
522
00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:06.960
not candidates should associate with him. And Abdullah Syed famously
523
00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:09.529
had a rally with him. So he's being targeted right
524
00:28:09.569 --> 00:28:11.750
now is like, how dare you associate with this guy
525
00:28:11.789 --> 00:28:14.730
who said all these terrible things? The clip that they
526
00:28:14.869 --> 00:28:17.710
usually point to is where he says that we, quote unquote,
527
00:28:17.779 --> 00:28:20.779
deserve 9-11. He's talking about the concept of blowback and
528
00:28:20.900 --> 00:28:24.859
for which he has since apologized. Meanwhile, Abdul El-Sayed is
529
00:28:24.940 --> 00:28:29.369
running against a guy who literally was in Congress after 9-11,
530
00:28:29.869 --> 00:28:35.089
who authorized the Iraq war, who supported mass surveillance, who
531
00:28:35.130 --> 00:28:39.960
defended torture and But that guy is fine. But associating
532
00:28:39.980 --> 00:28:42.829
with someone who said something that was edgy one time,
533
00:28:43.410 --> 00:28:46.890
that's what's out of bounds. That's what should be off limits.
534
00:28:47.369 --> 00:28:48.309
That's not just me.
535
00:28:48.349 --> 00:28:53.690
But I think most people. J.D. Vance's spiritual advisor, you know,
536
00:28:54.309 --> 00:28:57.640
the preacher that J.D. Vance considers one of his sort
537
00:28:57.660 --> 00:29:02.720
of spiritual advisors talks about male dominion over women. You know,
538
00:29:02.779 --> 00:29:06.839
there are all kinds of extremes involved. in terms of association.
539
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:09.039
I remember with Obama, you know, yeah, go ahead.
540
00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:12.819
Just think about, though, the contrast between Hassan Peker said
541
00:29:12.859 --> 00:29:16.480
a thing in response to 9-11 versus this guy actually
542
00:29:16.539 --> 00:29:21.460
was in power and was involved in the horrific lies
543
00:29:21.500 --> 00:29:23.599
leading up to that war, the authorization of the war,
544
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:28.240
the torture, the murder of Iraqi civilians. And so when
545
00:29:28.259 --> 00:29:31.940
you talk about accountability, where is the accountability for that?
546
00:29:32.349 --> 00:29:35.289
Where's the moral weight on that? Versus, I mean, many
547
00:29:35.309 --> 00:29:37.890
of these guys that were villains on your show when
548
00:29:37.930 --> 00:29:40.589
you were covering the Iraq War are still around. today
549
00:29:40.609 --> 00:29:44.119
to propagandize us and push us in the Iran war.
550
00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:46.779
So I think that lack of accountability you point to
551
00:29:47.220 --> 00:29:50.259
is a big failing in our society. And in my opinion,
552
00:29:50.359 --> 00:29:53.700
it has to be corrected. in the next administration. People
553
00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:56.619
have to go to prison for the crimes that were committed,
554
00:29:56.660 --> 00:30:00.029
whether it's rogue ICE agents, whether it's insider trading within
555
00:30:00.089 --> 00:30:03.829
this regime. That has to happen for us to reestablish
556
00:30:03.950 --> 00:30:05.589
anything approaching a healthy society.
557
00:30:05.670 --> 00:30:08.650
And I will say, John, for me, I know I'm
558
00:30:08.890 --> 00:30:11.430
with two liberals here, so I'm trying to pick my
559
00:30:11.450 --> 00:30:15.859
battles carefully. Sorry, a leftist and a liberal, a leftist
560
00:30:15.980 --> 00:30:19.230
and a liberal. I'm going to have to check on
561
00:30:19.250 --> 00:30:21.690
that J.D. Vance spiritual advisor one.
562
00:30:21.730 --> 00:30:23.049
Hegseth spiritual advisor.
563
00:30:23.089 --> 00:30:26.380
I was going to say, I'm fairly certain that's not true.
564
00:30:26.460 --> 00:30:30.599
That was Hegseth, but J.D. Vance was Peter Thiel. When
565
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:35.839
asked by Ross Dutat, should human beings continue to exist,
566
00:30:35.900 --> 00:30:38.500
paused for like eight seconds to be like, I don't
567
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:44.990
know about humans, and has unbelievably, the other people that
568
00:30:45.009 --> 00:30:49.579
are in those, my point being, Guilt by association, which
569
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:53.960
is often thrown in Democrats' faces, whether it was Obama's
570
00:30:53.980 --> 00:30:57.519
spiritual advisor, can be thrown into the right's faces, but
571
00:30:57.559 --> 00:30:59.480
it never seems to be done in that way. That's fair.
572
00:30:59.500 --> 00:30:59.740
What was it?
573
00:30:59.819 --> 00:31:02.220
Pastor Wright. Is that right? Pastor Wright? Now that I
574
00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:02.710
think about it.
575
00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:03.259
Yes, Pastor Wright.
576
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:04.000
That was a long time ago.
577
00:31:04.019 --> 00:31:04.940
Oh, with Obama you're talking about?
578
00:31:04.980 --> 00:31:05.240
Yeah.
579
00:31:05.579 --> 00:31:09.700
God. Anyway, I think the vein I'm picking up on,
580
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:12.359
and this is where I'm, I mean, I would say
581
00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:15.329
this is like the great disappointment, political disappointment of my life.
582
00:31:15.910 --> 00:31:20.799
as I said, was I was inspired to get involved
583
00:31:20.819 --> 00:31:26.819
in politics because of Iraq. And the centerpiece of the
584
00:31:26.819 --> 00:31:29.799
2024 campaign, and it's fair for people to say that
585
00:31:29.819 --> 00:31:33.059
you were fooled, was no more foreign wars. I mean,
586
00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:36.259
the vice president, as you said, wrote an op-ed endorsing Trump,
587
00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:40.329
Trump's best legacy, no new wars. Stephen Miller famously said,
588
00:31:40.380 --> 00:31:43.910
Kamala will send your sons to war, a significant contingent
589
00:31:43.930 --> 00:31:47.259
in the 2024 campaign. was we are not going to
590
00:31:47.299 --> 00:31:51.240
war with Iran. And so to live in a reality
591
00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:57.380
where Trump dastardly and disgracefully attacks Iran under the cover
592
00:31:57.579 --> 00:32:04.700
of negotiations twice, kills 168 schoolgirls, delivers the greatest strategic
593
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:08.109
disaster to the United States, potentially either since Vietnam or
594
00:32:08.170 --> 00:32:09.829
eclipsing it, if you talk to one of our guests,
595
00:32:10.250 --> 00:32:13.589
Professor Robert Pape, To live in that reality with those
596
00:32:13.650 --> 00:32:15.940
people who I really did trust, and I'm saying this
597
00:32:15.980 --> 00:32:18.000
on a personal level, I know many of them. I
598
00:32:18.059 --> 00:32:20.839
came up in politics kind of in the same cohort.
599
00:32:21.140 --> 00:32:24.720
It has been the greatest betrayal of my lifetime. And
600
00:32:24.779 --> 00:32:28.099
I think what's really disappointing is how much of it
601
00:32:28.660 --> 00:32:33.289
is clearly BS in that I believed that the voters
602
00:32:33.390 --> 00:32:36.829
believed that the wars were bad. And so to live
603
00:32:36.849 --> 00:32:41.349
in a reality... where Thomas Massey loses his House primary
604
00:32:41.710 --> 00:32:46.349
purely because of AIPAC and pro-Israel money, and a boomer
605
00:32:46.470 --> 00:32:48.450
Republican base who, if you'd pull them under.
606
00:32:48.710 --> 00:32:51.589
Well, and that Trump, I mean, let's not deny.
607
00:32:51.609 --> 00:32:54.910
Yeah, and Trump, right, of course, 100%. Right, those two together,
608
00:32:55.009 --> 00:32:56.430
like those two forces together.
609
00:32:56.809 --> 00:32:58.569
Sagar, I want to ask you a question, and I
610
00:32:58.589 --> 00:33:01.559
mean this, and this is for Crystal too. The dynamic
611
00:33:01.579 --> 00:33:07.859
that you're describing is a politics that distorts reality, that
612
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:15.859
creates an impression and then makes policy choices to ameliorate
613
00:33:16.140 --> 00:33:20.039
the damage of this false reality. And you're saying that
614
00:33:20.099 --> 00:33:25.319
your dividing line for that was Iraq and now Iran.
615
00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:29.089
I think maybe the disconnect here for whatever you would
616
00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:31.240
call liberals or the left or any of those things
617
00:33:32.009 --> 00:33:36.690
is that the entirety of Trump's operation has been that.
618
00:33:38.180 --> 00:33:40.200
That's right.
619
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:43.789
Has been the same dynamic you're describing that has disappointed
620
00:33:43.829 --> 00:33:46.950
you in Iraq and Iran. I would say has disappointed
621
00:33:47.009 --> 00:33:50.769
me when you say the Haitian community is eating cats
622
00:33:50.809 --> 00:33:56.559
and dogs. Well, that's the same immigration-wise as Saddam Hussein
623
00:33:56.640 --> 00:34:00.400
is using these aluminum tubes to enrich uranium, and that's
624
00:34:00.460 --> 00:34:02.299
why we have to go in there. In other words,
625
00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:06.250
the reason that has been given For so many of
626
00:34:06.289 --> 00:34:10.469
these policy decisions that I would disagree with is also
627
00:34:10.530 --> 00:34:11.920
a distortion of reality.
628
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:13.260
I think that's entirely fair, John.
629
00:34:13.460 --> 00:34:16.699
So I find it interesting that somehow Iran, it's like
630
00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:20.190
the whole Tucker Carlson of it. I've had enough. Really?
631
00:34:20.989 --> 00:34:23.289
Because it looks to me like it's the same shit
632
00:34:23.329 --> 00:34:25.139
that's been happening from day one.
633
00:34:25.340 --> 00:34:28.900
I think that's entirely fair, again, to take a step back.
634
00:34:28.940 --> 00:34:32.639
And I can only, from my perspective, like the Haitian thing. Yeah,
635
00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:35.019
it was a lie. The truth is a lot of
636
00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:38.639
us sat and swallowed it because we wanted less immigration.
637
00:34:38.659 --> 00:34:41.099
And we're like, OK, well, I mean, this highlights a
638
00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:43.860
topic and an issue which we can fight on. We
639
00:34:43.909 --> 00:34:46.030
can put the left on the back foot because, you know,
640
00:34:46.050 --> 00:34:48.989
they want, you know, mass amnesty. And we don't. And
641
00:34:49.010 --> 00:34:51.590
that was a tactical political decision that people in politics
642
00:34:51.630 --> 00:34:52.750
make all the time.
643
00:34:52.829 --> 00:34:55.250
But I'm not even sure they want mass amnesty. I
644
00:34:55.289 --> 00:34:57.230
even think that's a red herring. Fair. I don't know
645
00:34:57.289 --> 00:34:59.849
that they do want mass amnesty, but we don't have
646
00:34:59.889 --> 00:35:03.750
a politics in this country that's functional enough or literate
647
00:35:03.809 --> 00:35:07.699
enough to have an actual conversation about what immigration in
648
00:35:07.739 --> 00:35:08.800
this country should look like.
649
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:11.409
I think that, again, I totally take your point. And
650
00:35:11.429 --> 00:35:14.070
this is where, this is the most common- Look at me.
651
00:35:14.150 --> 00:35:14.809
Look at me.
652
00:35:14.829 --> 00:35:19.110
Come on. My parents are loving this. My parents are
653
00:35:19.130 --> 00:35:21.829
loving this, me being put in my place. But I
654
00:35:21.889 --> 00:35:24.449
do think like with the Iran thing, and again, I
655
00:35:24.469 --> 00:35:27.420
can explain it from my perspective, which was these were
656
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:30.960
people whose entire careers literally were kind of built on
657
00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:34.840
opposition to the neoconservative agenda. And did we know Trump
658
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:38.619
is a liar, a con, often says various different things.
659
00:35:38.820 --> 00:35:39.360
Absolutely.
660
00:35:39.710 --> 00:35:41.889
Many of us knew that or would say it in private.
661
00:35:42.190 --> 00:35:43.809
What we also knew is that in his first term,
662
00:35:43.849 --> 00:35:45.989
he was incredibly deferential to a lot of his staff.
663
00:35:46.349 --> 00:35:48.289
A lot of the people we were hiring, he was hiring,
664
00:35:48.409 --> 00:35:50.269
I knew for a fact, you know, at the very
665
00:35:50.329 --> 00:35:52.670
least had a genuine belief we shouldn't go to war
666
00:35:52.710 --> 00:35:56.800
with Iran. But what was extremely blackpilling, to use an
667
00:35:56.940 --> 00:36:00.940
online term, was to see those same people have to
668
00:36:00.980 --> 00:36:05.079
defend the war and in some cases use Iraq rhetoric.
669
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:08.039
I mean, I remember the vice president, who I'd seen
670
00:36:08.139 --> 00:36:11.989
give lectures against the war with Iran or against neoconservatism.
671
00:36:12.449 --> 00:36:13.869
He was in the Oval. It was in the middle
672
00:36:13.889 --> 00:36:15.369
of the Iran war. And he's like, it's like a
673
00:36:15.449 --> 00:36:18.010
suicide bomber. We're not going to wait till the suicide
674
00:36:18.050 --> 00:36:20.730
bomb goes off to disarm it. And I was like,
675
00:36:20.889 --> 00:36:21.050
oh my.
676
00:36:21.650 --> 00:36:23.719
We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud.
677
00:36:23.739 --> 00:36:28.820
It's Condoleezza Rice all over again. I actually couldn't believe it.
678
00:36:29.769 --> 00:36:32.909
You know, Mark Thiessen is back on my television screen
679
00:36:33.010 --> 00:36:35.690
and Ari Fleischer is back on my television screen and
680
00:36:36.030 --> 00:36:39.429
the same liars like who are justifying this. And to
681
00:36:39.510 --> 00:36:43.469
watch that happen, like I would say, fine, I was fooled.
682
00:36:43.630 --> 00:36:46.150
I didn't think it would. I thought that the lesson
683
00:36:46.190 --> 00:36:49.929
was learned. And there's a major mea culpa that has
684
00:36:49.989 --> 00:36:52.949
had and has to be had by people who thought
685
00:36:52.989 --> 00:36:55.719
that it would be different and said so. So that's
686
00:36:55.739 --> 00:36:57.039
kind of where I am currently.
687
00:36:57.219 --> 00:36:59.909
Crystal, what do you think of that? Because it's hard
688
00:36:59.969 --> 00:37:02.230
for me to hear a mea culpa about an Iran
689
00:37:02.250 --> 00:37:06.110
war when the entire regime is that. There's an inevitability
690
00:37:06.550 --> 00:37:09.829
to the reality distortion field and the actions that they
691
00:37:09.869 --> 00:37:13.329
take based on a reality that they are creating. Yeah.
692
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:15.900
Well, this is something Sagar and I have had it
693
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:17.920
out over on our show quite a lot and have
694
00:37:17.940 --> 00:37:21.320
sorted through in many conversations. And I've certainly had my
695
00:37:21.619 --> 00:37:24.070
I told you so's. And in fairness to Sagar.
696
00:37:24.090 --> 00:37:25.809
It's not even an I told you. I don't mean
697
00:37:25.849 --> 00:37:27.570
it that way. Honestly, it's not that.
698
00:37:27.750 --> 00:37:29.670
No, I get what you're saying, though. And I think
699
00:37:29.789 --> 00:37:33.510
one of the biggest differences in my view going into
700
00:37:33.530 --> 00:37:36.349
Trump 2.0 and Sagar's view, apart from the fact that
701
00:37:36.369 --> 00:37:38.829
we have different ideologies and so we have different things
702
00:37:38.849 --> 00:37:41.570
that we consider to be good or bad, specifically on
703
00:37:41.630 --> 00:37:46.239
immigration in particular. But Sagar's view was that there were
704
00:37:46.300 --> 00:37:49.010
institutional constraints the first time and there will be some
705
00:37:49.050 --> 00:37:50.590
institutional constraints this time.
706
00:37:50.750 --> 00:37:51.090
That's true.
707
00:37:51.329 --> 00:37:54.199
I looked at the what had been done in the offseason,
708
00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:57.280
whether it was Project 2025, whether it was all of
709
00:37:57.300 --> 00:38:00.570
the plans to fire mass fire government workers. whether it
710
00:38:00.610 --> 00:38:03.050
was the Supreme Court taking control of the Supreme Court
711
00:38:03.070 --> 00:38:05.230
and then the Supreme Court giving Trump a green light
712
00:38:05.269 --> 00:38:07.630
to commit whatever crimes in office that he wants to,
713
00:38:08.130 --> 00:38:10.769
whether it was the mass loyalty test and fealty that
714
00:38:10.829 --> 00:38:14.139
he demanded and demanded that people back up his 2020
715
00:38:14.139 --> 00:38:17.900
election stolen lies. I looked at that and said, no,
716
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:20.500
this is going to be gloves off. It is going
717
00:38:20.539 --> 00:38:24.099
to be a most maximalist version of what he would
718
00:38:24.179 --> 00:38:27.119
want to do, of what his id is. And it's
719
00:38:27.139 --> 00:38:30.000
going to be horrifying. Now, even I don't think could
720
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:35.250
have anticipated all of the Doge and Seacott and murdering
721
00:38:35.369 --> 00:38:39.110
random fishermen in the Caribbean. I could have anticipated and
722
00:38:39.150 --> 00:38:42.929
did anticipate the Iran war. But those were, I think,
723
00:38:43.010 --> 00:38:45.690
two of the very different frames that we had coming
724
00:38:45.750 --> 00:38:48.210
into this. And, you know, for me, I'm very much
725
00:38:48.309 --> 00:38:52.940
caught People who now are seeing some of the problems,
726
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:56.760
I want to say, great, come along. But I agree
727
00:38:56.780 --> 00:39:00.429
with you that there has to be some reckoning with, okay,
728
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:03.320
How did you get it wrong? And again, I think
729
00:39:03.340 --> 00:39:05.239
Sagar has actually done this, but how did you get
730
00:39:05.260 --> 00:39:06.889
it wrong? How did you end up in this place?
731
00:39:07.449 --> 00:39:10.409
And what are we doing going forward? Because if you're
732
00:39:10.429 --> 00:39:13.130
now just all of a sudden pretending like you had
733
00:39:13.170 --> 00:39:16.030
nothing to do with his rise, if you aren't reckoning
734
00:39:16.110 --> 00:39:20.550
with the other lies and horrors that unfolded during Trump 1.0
735
00:39:20.550 --> 00:39:23.010
and in the offseason and in the buildup to Iran,
736
00:39:23.429 --> 00:39:25.909
then it's going to be very difficult to have any
737
00:39:25.949 --> 00:39:29.389
sort of like coming together or certainly a coalition formed
738
00:39:29.429 --> 00:39:29.969
around that group.
739
00:39:37.469 --> 00:39:43.349
I only eat food now that afterwards I can swim
740
00:39:43.590 --> 00:39:48.309
in the bowl that I ate it in. That's... Can
741
00:39:48.329 --> 00:39:50.650
you imagine if your cereal bowl was literally big enough
742
00:39:50.670 --> 00:39:52.690
you could eat your cereal and then go for a
743
00:39:52.750 --> 00:39:57.190
quick dip? Oh, oh, the time I would save. But
744
00:39:57.210 --> 00:40:01.050
I got to tell you, this Magic Spoon, man, it's
745
00:40:01.110 --> 00:40:05.610
healthy food. Cereal. Imagine that. Cereal, but healthy. It's Magic
746
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:09.940
Spoon changing the game. They got 13 grams of protein
747
00:40:10.179 --> 00:40:12.280
for those of you going through the change of life
748
00:40:12.980 --> 00:40:16.539
as I am, where you get the old sarcopenias. As
749
00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:18.099
they come in, you got to get that muscle up.
750
00:40:18.610 --> 00:40:21.309
You got to get that protein. Zero sugar, by the way.
751
00:40:21.750 --> 00:40:25.090
Five grams of net carbs per serving. That's low. So
752
00:40:25.110 --> 00:40:27.820
you got a lot of protein, no sugar, and not
753
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:33.880
that many carbs there. Great breakfast, late night snack, post-workout fuel,
754
00:40:34.599 --> 00:40:37.099
wake up in the middle of the night weeping. It's
755
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:40.460
a great time to console yourself. They got granola. They
756
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:43.289
got snack bars. Come on, man. Don't make me beg.
757
00:40:44.230 --> 00:40:46.170
Look for Magic Spoon on Amazon or at your nearest
758
00:40:46.190 --> 00:40:49.320
grocery store. And there are plant-based versions of the cereal too.
759
00:40:49.619 --> 00:40:51.599
Even vegans get to feel like they had a childhood.
760
00:40:52.139 --> 00:40:56.059
You'll find vegan options at Whole Foods or get $ 5
761
00:40:55.320 --> 00:41:00.599
off your next order at magicspoon.com slash TWS. That's magicspoon.com
762
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:11.199
slash TWS for $ 5 off. My concern is that this
763
00:41:12.550 --> 00:41:15.250
awakening is actually just strategic.
764
00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:17.179
What do you mean by that?
765
00:41:18.159 --> 00:41:23.260
So, all right, let's go to the photograph in the
766
00:41:23.340 --> 00:41:27.809
Cracker Barrel, the Thomas Massey, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Tucker Carlson
767
00:41:27.889 --> 00:41:32.949
photo of the diaspora, the Republican diaspora, those that have
768
00:41:33.030 --> 00:41:36.050
woken and the Iran war. And now they sit in
769
00:41:36.090 --> 00:41:38.980
this room and they're going to come up with the,
770
00:41:39.139 --> 00:41:41.679
it's not, this is the real Make America Great Again.
771
00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:46.550
That was fake. We enabled it. We worked our asses
772
00:41:46.670 --> 00:41:54.199
off to amplify the lying, to help create a reality
773
00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:57.239
distortion field that has given us all of these bad
774
00:41:57.340 --> 00:42:04.079
outcomes from invading Iran to a shitty reflecting pool because
775
00:42:04.099 --> 00:42:05.760
they're all one in the same. They're part of the
776
00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:10.139
same process, quite frankly. It's all the same. It's the
777
00:42:10.199 --> 00:42:14.579
real great replacement theory. Let's take all the partisans and
778
00:42:14.619 --> 00:42:17.780
replace them with ideologues because partisans are part of the game.
779
00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:22.099
Ideologues are a whole different version. And now what they've
780
00:42:22.139 --> 00:42:27.349
done is they've created a little isolated group that can say,
781
00:42:27.369 --> 00:42:32.170
oh no, we didn't go along with it. So whoever
782
00:42:33.010 --> 00:42:37.510
kind of rises up to next lead MAGA, that group
783
00:42:37.590 --> 00:42:43.050
can bless and provide cover to, to say, oh no,
784
00:42:44.489 --> 00:42:47.420
these guys have it right now. This is the real
785
00:42:47.480 --> 00:42:51.280
MAGA and we'll provide cover. And I don't think any
786
00:42:51.320 --> 00:42:54.539
of it is an intentional. I think the entirety of
787
00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:57.469
the design of this, and it's not just the last
788
00:42:57.469 --> 00:42:59.969
10 years, it's the last 50 or 60 years.
789
00:43:00.750 --> 00:43:03.750
So, I mean, obviously a very cynical interpretation. And I
790
00:43:03.789 --> 00:43:04.630
know some of the people.
791
00:43:05.719 --> 00:43:09.500
Please tell me why I shouldn't be cynical about that interpretation.
792
00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:12.860
Please tell me why these bad faith actors are suddenly
793
00:43:13.030 --> 00:43:14.010
acting in good faith.
794
00:43:14.389 --> 00:43:16.690
You have every right to think that. I don't think
795
00:43:16.710 --> 00:43:20.130
that there's nearly the incentive that you necessarily are impute.
796
00:43:20.150 --> 00:43:22.489
Like you have people who all lost their elections and
797
00:43:22.530 --> 00:43:25.309
are not exactly like, well, let's say Marjorie Taylor Greene's
798
00:43:25.530 --> 00:43:28.389
and Thomas Massey's case, like actually lost their entire careers.
799
00:43:28.849 --> 00:43:31.469
Or Joe Kent, for example, who I know personally.
800
00:43:31.730 --> 00:43:33.849
I don't think they're the progenitors of it. I think
801
00:43:33.929 --> 00:43:36.869
Tucker is. I think he's the one who has to be,
802
00:43:37.250 --> 00:43:40.380
it's very telling. He said, I couldn't believe how little
803
00:43:40.429 --> 00:43:43.599
influence I have. His whole thing is I have to
804
00:43:43.659 --> 00:43:45.719
be in proximity to power.
805
00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:48.539
I see, look, I've known Tucker for a long time.
806
00:43:49.260 --> 00:43:52.380
I just don't really agree with that analysis, having spoken
807
00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:55.760
to him. I would say that he does feel genuinely
808
00:43:55.820 --> 00:43:58.530
burned by Donald Trump, not just with Iran, but actually
809
00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:00.320
With a lot more. I know you're skeptical.
810
00:44:00.380 --> 00:44:03.119
Well, I mean, how are you burned by a guy
811
00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:06.179
that 10 years ago you said, this man is corrupt
812
00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:08.380
to the core and I hate him? Sure. How are
813
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:09.139
you burned by that?
814
00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:10.940
I mean, the vice president said that as well.
815
00:44:11.019 --> 00:44:11.219
Right.
816
00:44:11.239 --> 00:44:12.400
I think, right, people can change.
817
00:44:12.579 --> 00:44:18.039
And is also a cynical, cynical person manipulating himself into
818
00:44:18.099 --> 00:44:21.039
the halls of power. You can't convince me otherwise because
819
00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:23.360
I've seen no evidence of it. Sure.
820
00:44:23.500 --> 00:44:25.320
Let's take the vice president out because you're right. He's
821
00:44:25.340 --> 00:44:27.179
literally the vice president. So he had something to gain.
822
00:44:27.389 --> 00:44:31.309
I don't see necessarily the same Tucker gain. I guess
823
00:44:31.349 --> 00:44:33.869
whenever it comes to the third party or let's even
824
00:44:33.909 --> 00:44:37.650
take the Trump criticism, I again think it's genuine. It
825
00:44:37.889 --> 00:44:43.039
has lost him any like genuine friendships. cachet, I think,
826
00:44:43.099 --> 00:44:45.400
in terms of his ability to project power in a
827
00:44:45.420 --> 00:44:47.840
Republican party. I mean, I'm not sure if you've seen
828
00:44:47.900 --> 00:44:51.360
some of the approval polling on Tucker, like after Trump
829
00:44:51.380 --> 00:44:54.150
attacked him. Did they do approval polling on pundits? Yes,
830
00:44:54.230 --> 00:44:57.250
they did, because they were testing this exact theory of
831
00:44:57.309 --> 00:45:01.090
what you're discussing, which is like, hey, does Tucker independently
832
00:45:01.130 --> 00:45:04.389
have juice amongst Republicans without Trump? And his net negatives
833
00:45:04.469 --> 00:45:07.809
went much higher. Obviously, he's independent on his show, like
834
00:45:08.090 --> 00:45:10.380
in terms of his like, you know, away from partisanship
835
00:45:10.389 --> 00:45:12.369
or his own economic situation.
836
00:45:12.389 --> 00:45:15.230
But Sagar, the same could be said about Republicans who
837
00:45:15.570 --> 00:45:18.739
were apostate about the Iraq war. In other words, people
838
00:45:18.800 --> 00:45:22.159
look to the future. And he's always been a guy
839
00:45:22.460 --> 00:45:26.079
that has looked to what's in it. Look, explain to
840
00:45:26.119 --> 00:45:29.059
me a guy who says, I'm all about liberty and
841
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:31.440
America and make America great again. And you know who's
842
00:45:31.480 --> 00:45:39.170
really a great leader? Putin. There's an incoherence to this
843
00:45:39.329 --> 00:45:42.059
that has to be cynical because it's incoherent.
844
00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:45.340
I understand how you get there. But again, but it's
845
00:45:45.409 --> 00:45:47.650
like what and this is kind of like we were
846
00:45:47.670 --> 00:45:49.610
because I work with Crystal, like I could see your
847
00:45:49.650 --> 00:45:50.610
brain pathways.
848
00:45:50.829 --> 00:45:51.409
Yes, yes, yes.
849
00:45:51.449 --> 00:45:54.010
How you get there. So I'll explain the way that
850
00:45:54.289 --> 00:45:56.050
we would get there and the way we would get
851
00:45:56.090 --> 00:45:59.309
there is like Tucker or not even just Tucker, a
852
00:45:59.349 --> 00:46:01.530
lot of MAGA. And you're talking about Putin, I assume,
853
00:46:01.570 --> 00:46:04.250
in terms of like the war in Ukraine or admiration
854
00:46:04.309 --> 00:46:06.570
or whatever for the Russian system, some of which, by
855
00:46:06.590 --> 00:46:08.429
the way, I do think goes too far. but a
856
00:46:08.530 --> 00:46:09.889
lot of it is about a rejection.
857
00:46:09.909 --> 00:46:10.429
Some of which?
858
00:46:10.789 --> 00:46:13.550
No, I'm saying in terms of people who are like, oh,
859
00:46:13.630 --> 00:46:17.730
Russia is this pinnacle of Western greatness. And it's like, well,
860
00:46:17.789 --> 00:46:20.150
just look at their demographics and their economy. That's not
861
00:46:20.309 --> 00:46:23.679
exactly true. But the point that I think where it
862
00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:27.420
came from, again, just to try to explain this, is
863
00:46:28.099 --> 00:46:33.420
a lot of the original 2016 energy in particular was
864
00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:38.449
a Buchananite rejection of globalism. And In particular, I think
865
00:46:38.489 --> 00:46:41.260
what people tried to see in Putin or slash like
866
00:46:41.719 --> 00:46:45.460
admiration or whatever of Putin or the Russian system was
867
00:46:45.539 --> 00:46:48.880
somebody who stands athwart like the neoliberal West.
868
00:46:49.019 --> 00:46:49.199
Right.
869
00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:51.900
So if I were to look at it through that frame,
870
00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:54.369
it's a little bit different. Like, I don't think it
871
00:46:54.469 --> 00:46:58.289
is necessarily as incongruent as you're thinking, because if you're
872
00:46:58.429 --> 00:47:02.150
a nationalist and your primary view of the world is
873
00:47:02.190 --> 00:47:04.809
that sovereignty itself is one of the things you should
874
00:47:04.869 --> 00:47:08.199
promote and not just promote, but to cherish and to
875
00:47:08.239 --> 00:47:10.880
hold dear as much as possible, then you're going to
876
00:47:10.980 --> 00:47:14.960
look at different countries which have rejected a Western global
877
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:18.929
hegemon and say, oh, that's admirable, I guess, in a sense. Again,
878
00:47:19.010 --> 00:47:21.170
I'm not saying I agree with this, but I'm trying
879
00:47:21.190 --> 00:47:23.170
to explain how somebody would get there.
880
00:47:23.190 --> 00:47:23.269
Yeah.
881
00:47:23.869 --> 00:47:27.809
Well, Crystal, let me ask you, because this gets us
882
00:47:27.869 --> 00:47:30.090
into a whole other thing, but maybe this is the
883
00:47:30.110 --> 00:47:34.349
distinction between left-wing and right-wing populism. Because I always think
884
00:47:34.369 --> 00:47:37.349
of populism through a much more economic lens, but there
885
00:47:37.369 --> 00:47:40.280
really is a nationalist lens that you have to look
886
00:47:40.489 --> 00:47:45.139
through it as well. And the thing that's interesting about
887
00:47:45.460 --> 00:47:49.400
the right-wing populism is, and again, I view it as cynical.
888
00:47:51.019 --> 00:47:54.860
It's the Bannon theory of power. I'm going to combine
889
00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:58.019
left-wing economic populism, because I think that gives me a
890
00:47:58.059 --> 00:48:00.659
large group of people to pull from, and I'm going
891
00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:07.730
to combine it with right-wing, we must protect white Anglo-Saxon
892
00:48:08.289 --> 00:48:14.289
culture and Western civilization, which is their, I guess, sort
893
00:48:14.349 --> 00:48:24.260
of euphemism for that homogeneity. I think the second part
894
00:48:24.300 --> 00:48:28.360
of that, the white homogeneity is more important to them
895
00:48:28.900 --> 00:48:31.739
than the economic populism. And the reason that I think
896
00:48:31.780 --> 00:48:35.440
that is because They didn't tell their judges to be
897
00:48:35.559 --> 00:48:39.460
economic populists. Like, yes, every Supreme Court decision that comes
898
00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:44.519
down basically favors corporate interest. Yeah. Rather than workers interest.
899
00:48:44.679 --> 00:48:48.119
The economic part of it, at least, you know, putting
900
00:48:48.159 --> 00:48:51.110
the voters aside. But in the expression of right wing
901
00:48:51.130 --> 00:48:53.510
populism in Trump and I would say other right wing
902
00:48:53.550 --> 00:48:57.699
populist leaders around the world. The economic part is basically fake.
903
00:48:57.820 --> 00:49:01.000
I mean, this has been an incredible administration for billionaires
904
00:49:01.059 --> 00:49:03.739
in the oligarch class. They've never made more money or
905
00:49:04.079 --> 00:49:07.820
had more power or been deregulated. They're getting everything they want.
906
00:49:08.219 --> 00:49:10.610
And that's part of why it was easier for Trump
907
00:49:11.130 --> 00:49:13.309
to take over the Republican Party than it has been
908
00:49:13.349 --> 00:49:15.869
for the left to take over the Democratic Party, because
909
00:49:15.889 --> 00:49:20.860
the left-wing populism, that class dynamic you're talking about, that
910
00:49:20.940 --> 00:49:25.159
is the whole thing, right? In populism, you're basically doing
911
00:49:25.300 --> 00:49:27.940
the people versus who is the villain. For the left,
912
00:49:27.960 --> 00:49:30.309
the villain is the billionaires, it's the trillionaires, it's the
913
00:49:30.389 --> 00:49:34.469
Epstein class, it's the oligarchs. For the right, It's typically,
914
00:49:34.610 --> 00:49:37.000
you know, to frame it, I think you're right in
915
00:49:37.019 --> 00:49:39.480
your framing. There's usually a lot of, you know, scapegoating
916
00:49:39.519 --> 00:49:42.659
of various minority groups. And so you can use a
917
00:49:42.699 --> 00:49:46.199
sort of sloppilist, faux populist rhetoric when it comes to
918
00:49:46.219 --> 00:49:48.909
the economics. But that has all been cast aside. And
919
00:49:48.929 --> 00:49:50.710
in Trump 1.0, it was as well. I mean, their
920
00:49:50.750 --> 00:49:54.090
biggest economic accomplishment was this big tax cut for the
921
00:49:54.150 --> 00:49:57.590
rich that was cooked up by the Heritage Foundation and
922
00:49:57.860 --> 00:50:01.730
Paul Ryan. So I think that is an important distinction here.
923
00:50:01.929 --> 00:50:05.929
And I think that's increasingly becoming clear to many Americans,
924
00:50:05.969 --> 00:50:08.780
which is why Trump's approval rating on the economy is
925
00:50:08.969 --> 00:50:11.960
in the toilet, why there is such disgust with him,
926
00:50:12.340 --> 00:50:17.000
why you see this real rise of left-wing populist candidates.
927
00:50:17.500 --> 00:50:22.250
who are overcoming a lot of money and establishment rejection
928
00:50:22.289 --> 00:50:24.750
of them and, you know, attempts to smear and demagogue
929
00:50:24.789 --> 00:50:28.150
against them. But they're able to succeed anyway because the
930
00:50:28.510 --> 00:50:31.289
establishment has lost so much credibility with the Democratic base.
931
00:50:31.670 --> 00:50:34.900
And also because these economic and oligarchic forces have become
932
00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:37.880
so abundantly apparent to so many Americans.
933
00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:38.699
Yeah, John.
934
00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:42.440
And I think, look, again, I hear your critique. And,
935
00:50:42.659 --> 00:50:43.559
you know, I've had my- By.
936
00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:47.199
The way, Sagar, you really are like, Your way of
937
00:50:47.260 --> 00:50:50.280
dealing with me is exactly how now I'm going to
938
00:50:50.320 --> 00:50:53.199
go home and deal with people in my family. I
939
00:50:53.239 --> 00:50:54.780
hear what you're saying. Right.
940
00:50:55.630 --> 00:50:56.650
I see how you got there.
941
00:50:56.670 --> 00:50:57.789
I see how you got there.
942
00:50:57.809 --> 00:51:01.110
Because I spend my time with Crystal and, you know.
943
00:51:01.170 --> 00:51:03.730
I've been in that way, Mo. And I understand.
944
00:51:03.929 --> 00:51:04.309
Yeah.
945
00:51:04.329 --> 00:51:05.760
It's taken you. Right.
946
00:51:06.159 --> 00:51:07.519
You took one route. We're taking another.
947
00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:08.039
Exactly.
948
00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:10.099
If you were to take my route, my preferred route.
949
00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:11.000
So.
950
00:51:11.699 --> 00:51:16.860
You're imbuing kind of an ideology of just in your
951
00:51:17.139 --> 00:51:21.929
original analysis there about economics and about white identity politics.
952
00:51:22.510 --> 00:51:25.110
But I actually think, and I would take it further,
953
00:51:25.710 --> 00:51:29.769
is it's actually worse. It's really just about Trump. And
954
00:51:29.789 --> 00:51:32.579
I think it really took the Iran war to fully
955
00:51:32.619 --> 00:51:36.400
kick that in for me, is that the voters fundamentally,
956
00:51:37.019 --> 00:51:40.280
they just really like Trump. And it's actually not as
957
00:51:40.360 --> 00:51:42.820
much about policy or any of the things that you
958
00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:46.179
might type of think. I really hit home for me
959
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:48.360
in terms of like when I talk to some of
960
00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:51.809
these people still all on board the Trump train, especially
961
00:51:51.829 --> 00:51:54.210
the older voters, they really just love how he drives
962
00:51:54.230 --> 00:51:56.670
people like you crazy. And that's actually just all it is.
963
00:51:57.849 --> 00:52:00.110
Like any any time like you see.
964
00:51:59.969 --> 00:52:01.690
That may be the saddest thing I've ever heard.
965
00:52:02.199 --> 00:52:04.750
But it's true. It is kind of empirically true, is
966
00:52:04.809 --> 00:52:08.309
what you see is like liberal cultural rejection of Trump.
967
00:52:08.650 --> 00:52:09.760
He hates the right people.
968
00:52:09.960 --> 00:52:13.219
Or no, he's hated by the right people. That's actually
969
00:52:13.260 --> 00:52:13.739
what it's about.
970
00:52:13.820 --> 00:52:14.059
All right.
971
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:17.280
That's the truth, I think, at the beating heart of
972
00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:18.980
a lot of the remaining MAGA coalitions.
973
00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:22.130
So if we start to like him, they'll abandon him?
974
00:52:22.349 --> 00:52:25.150
I don't know about that. The damage has probably been done,
975
00:52:25.269 --> 00:52:28.010
but I don't know if they would cling necessarily as
976
00:52:28.030 --> 00:52:30.909
hard as you think. But this is where, though, to
977
00:52:30.969 --> 00:52:34.139
kind of break my own analysis, the one thing that
978
00:52:34.179 --> 00:52:38.860
does appear to quote-unquote trump that is the economic situation,
979
00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:41.440
which is a validation, I think, of the economic framework
980
00:52:41.480 --> 00:52:43.900
of what you're talking about. For the very first time,
981
00:52:44.420 --> 00:52:47.099
we see Trump's net approval rating or approval rating with
982
00:52:47.139 --> 00:52:50.679
Republicans on the economy began to dip down as a result,
983
00:52:50.719 --> 00:52:53.230
both of the way that the tariffs were handled and
984
00:52:53.269 --> 00:52:56.590
because of the Iran war and $ 4 gasoline. That is
985
00:52:56.670 --> 00:52:59.789
beginning to pierce what I would say is the cultural veneer.
986
00:52:59.829 --> 00:53:02.260
And it already has, you know, definitely for a lot of,
987
00:53:02.289 --> 00:53:04.630
let's say, the younger men or voters who went along
988
00:53:04.929 --> 00:53:06.570
with Trump in 2024.
989
00:53:06.570 --> 00:53:10.239
But I'd rather talk about the designers of this program
990
00:53:10.940 --> 00:53:14.800
than those that have to live through it. I think
991
00:53:14.860 --> 00:53:21.360
I'm talking more about the designers, that the Project 2025 designers.
992
00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:27.869
There is a Christian nationalist bent to it that I
993
00:53:27.929 --> 00:53:32.630
think is the driving force of it. And everything else
994
00:53:33.210 --> 00:53:37.949
is strategic and intentional about how do we get there?
995
00:53:38.789 --> 00:53:41.900
How do we get to the power? How do we
996
00:53:41.940 --> 00:53:46.480
get to control everything? when our ultimate goal is that.
997
00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:50.230
So I actually see, I think it's much more economic.
998
00:53:50.630 --> 00:53:53.909
And even Project 2025 itself is kind of a complicated story, right?
999
00:53:53.949 --> 00:53:57.329
Because Project 2025 was written by the Heritage Foundation. It
1000
00:53:57.369 --> 00:54:00.840
was explicitly disavowed by Donald Trump on the campaign trail,
1001
00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:02.260
who was like, I have nothing to do.
1002
00:54:02.360 --> 00:54:02.940
Oh, oh.
1003
00:54:03.159 --> 00:54:04.539
No, I'm not saying it was real.
1004
00:54:04.679 --> 00:54:05.300
Come on, man.
1005
00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:08.539
I'm saying he did devout it, correct? Like he did.
1006
00:54:08.699 --> 00:54:13.190
But cynically, he didn't disavow it. He gave it plausible
1007
00:54:13.250 --> 00:54:17.070
deniability as he does it. That's my point is when
1008
00:54:17.110 --> 00:54:20.690
you act like, wow, this Iran thing really caught me
1009
00:54:20.789 --> 00:54:25.090
off guard. And then you tell me with earnestness, oh no,
1010
00:54:25.150 --> 00:54:29.110
he disavowed 2025. He did nothing of the kind. He
1011
00:54:29.239 --> 00:54:32.010
in no way wanted to deal with the particulars of
1012
00:54:32.070 --> 00:54:35.739
it because he knew how politically damaging it was. Right.
1013
00:54:35.840 --> 00:54:36.119
No, no.
1014
00:54:36.179 --> 00:54:38.460
I'm actually, I was about to get there. So I
1015
00:54:38.460 --> 00:54:41.869
was saying he disavowed it only then to hire- Many
1016
00:54:41.889 --> 00:54:45.130
of the people who were signatories of Project 2025. So
1017
00:54:45.449 --> 00:54:48.769
there wasn't an acknowledgment going into the campaign that this
1018
00:54:48.849 --> 00:54:52.590
is politically damaging, this type of product, the Heritage Foundation, etc.
1019
00:54:52.610 --> 00:54:55.340
But then that became the general policy, at least in
1020
00:54:55.380 --> 00:54:57.780
some areas. It's been kind of complicated because a lot
1021
00:54:57.800 --> 00:55:00.480
of it is just Trump himself deciding what the tariff
1022
00:55:00.519 --> 00:55:02.869
rate on China should be. Whenever he wakes up in
1023
00:55:02.889 --> 00:55:04.809
the morning, I'm not joking. That's actually how it works.
1024
00:55:05.409 --> 00:55:07.809
I liked when he did, he didn't like a conversation
1025
00:55:07.829 --> 00:55:12.110
he had in Switzerland and he was like 50% on chocolate. Right. Yeah.
1026
00:55:12.110 --> 00:55:14.489
50% on chocolate and watches for the watch community. That
1027
00:55:14.510 --> 00:55:18.639
was devastating as a member of that. So like when
1028
00:55:18.659 --> 00:55:21.400
we talk about the designers, I don't know if it's
1029
00:55:21.460 --> 00:55:24.340
as intentional though, as you say, I do think all
1030
00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:30.250
political coalitions have people who are insider organizations in Washington
1031
00:55:30.269 --> 00:55:32.190
who are jockeying for power. That's literally the job of
1032
00:55:32.210 --> 00:55:36.110
the Heritage Foundation or of these neoconservative think tanks. So
1033
00:55:36.130 --> 00:55:38.090
you're saying what you're talking about, how you think the
1034
00:55:38.139 --> 00:55:40.920
Iran war came out of nowhere, that's kind of a
1035
00:55:41.199 --> 00:55:44.099
foolish thought. But it's just really hard for somebody who
1036
00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:47.579
lives in the town, knows some of the most senior
1037
00:55:47.599 --> 00:55:50.300
appointees or some of the people who were there, who
1038
00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:54.019
in private and in public are spoke against war with Iran,
1039
00:55:54.059 --> 00:55:56.360
made good cases against war with Iran, why we should
1040
00:55:56.380 --> 00:55:59.300
disengage from the Middle East. To say that that was
1041
00:55:59.440 --> 00:56:03.909
disingenuous the whole time, I'm still just having a hard
1042
00:56:03.949 --> 00:56:04.510
time with it.
1043
00:56:04.530 --> 00:56:07.610
No, what I'm saying is not that it was disingenuous.
1044
00:56:08.050 --> 00:56:11.550
And I'll ask you this, Crystal. The idea wasn't that
1045
00:56:11.610 --> 00:56:15.090
they really didn't believe they would go into Iran. My
1046
00:56:15.170 --> 00:56:19.530
point is that all these other policy decisions that have
1047
00:56:19.570 --> 00:56:22.409
gone along with the intentional design of moving us more
1048
00:56:22.449 --> 00:56:30.780
towards this intentional heritage American version, non-credal America of a
1049
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:34.440
people who belong here more than other people, who are
1050
00:56:34.539 --> 00:56:39.440
more American than other people, real America. That's all been
1051
00:56:39.519 --> 00:56:47.190
driven by a very intentional planning group that is trying
1052
00:56:47.230 --> 00:56:51.150
to figure out ways to maximize their power, and in
1053
00:56:51.309 --> 00:56:57.400
doing so, have created this group that is manufacturing a
1054
00:56:57.500 --> 00:57:00.980
reality to get them to do that. Now, the Iran war,
1055
00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:03.980
whether it fits into that framing or not, that's the
1056
00:57:04.019 --> 00:57:07.869
reality of it. It's a cynical manipulation to get to
1057
00:57:07.909 --> 00:57:12.070
a certain goal. And my problem is, and Crystal, I'm
1058
00:57:12.090 --> 00:57:16.510
going to ask you this, Is it your problem as
1059
00:57:16.570 --> 00:57:19.429
well that you look at this sudden, like, I can't
1060
00:57:19.489 --> 00:57:23.300
believe the tiger ate my face when the rest of
1061
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:28.260
us have been faced with this cynical manipulation of policy
1062
00:57:28.280 --> 00:57:31.820
the whole time? Yeah. Whether it got them the results
1063
00:57:31.860 --> 00:57:34.550
they wanted on immigration, but not the result they wanted
1064
00:57:34.610 --> 00:57:34.750
on Iran.
1065
00:57:36.309 --> 00:57:38.929
Yeah. I mean, at the risk of getting up on soccer,
1066
00:57:38.969 --> 00:57:39.449
I feel very.
1067
00:57:39.369 --> 00:57:40.550
Similarly to you. No, no, no. And by the way,
1068
00:57:40.610 --> 00:57:43.389
and then we'll talk about how the left sucks. Okay.
1069
00:57:43.429 --> 00:57:46.239
We'll do that in a moment. But no, I mean, look,
1070
00:57:46.380 --> 00:57:49.440
I look at the track record from Trump 1.0. I
1071
00:57:49.500 --> 00:57:52.480
look at J.D. Vance's speech, to your point, about the
1072
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:56.559
like heritage American Christian nationalist vision for the country. His
1073
00:57:56.619 --> 00:58:00.300
speech at the RNC where he laid down an explicitly
1074
00:58:00.380 --> 00:58:04.139
blood and soil conception said that America is not an idea.
1075
00:58:04.519 --> 00:58:07.679
And then you look at Stephen Miller, who is so
1076
00:58:07.739 --> 00:58:11.059
powerful that he's been called the prime minister within the administration.
1077
00:58:11.489 --> 00:58:14.690
And this guy is a diehard ideologue who loves to
1078
00:58:14.929 --> 00:58:18.309
Nazi post on Maine. You know, there is no doubt
1079
00:58:18.690 --> 00:58:23.250
what his priorities are. And so far, as Trump even
1080
00:58:23.289 --> 00:58:25.150
has said, like, oh, this guy would like there to
1081
00:58:25.190 --> 00:58:27.090
just be 100 million people in the country that all
1082
00:58:27.130 --> 00:58:29.409
look like him. So it's not a secret what his
1083
00:58:29.449 --> 00:58:32.889
priorities are. And he's been given a free hand. in
1084
00:58:33.030 --> 00:58:35.679
order to execute that sort of policy. So I think
1085
00:58:35.699 --> 00:58:37.539
you have that strain. And then I think you have
1086
00:58:37.739 --> 00:58:41.579
a Trump is just the most self-dealing corrupt person on
1087
00:58:41.619 --> 00:58:46.360
the entire planet, who also has Kushner and Witkoff and
1088
00:58:46.380 --> 00:58:50.280
these other characters who are also focused on looting and
1089
00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:54.530
self-dealing as the other primary impetus within the administration. And
1090
00:58:54.550 --> 00:58:56.590
I think when you put all of that together, and
1091
00:58:56.630 --> 00:58:59.730
also Trump's desire to be this big man in history,
1092
00:58:59.809 --> 00:59:03.280
and he wants this world-changing legacy, whether that is for
1093
00:59:03.340 --> 00:59:05.039
good or for ill. I think that's part of what
1094
00:59:05.079 --> 00:59:08.389
explains the Iran war in particular. But when you put
1095
00:59:08.530 --> 00:59:12.500
the ideologues together, with the self-dealing together with the total
1096
00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:15.460
lack of any guardrails on this train at this point,
1097
00:59:15.880 --> 00:59:18.519
that's how you end up with this situation. And yes,
1098
00:59:18.539 --> 00:59:20.690
to your point, I mean, not only was it predictable,
1099
00:59:20.829 --> 00:59:21.909
it was predicted.
1100
00:59:28.710 --> 00:59:31.079
Mint Mobile. And it's important that you throw in the
1101
00:59:31.119 --> 00:59:35.000
mobile there. There's Mint. We all know what that's about.
1102
00:59:35.639 --> 00:59:39.519
But Mint Mobile, what we're talking about here is a
1103
00:59:39.619 --> 00:59:45.389
phone company that's delivering you their product for less than
1104
00:59:45.429 --> 00:59:47.869
what other phone companies are doing. I don't know what
1105
00:59:47.909 --> 00:59:49.929
you want out of a phone company. What I want
1106
00:59:49.969 --> 00:59:52.369
out of a phone company is deliver me a good product.
1107
00:59:53.050 --> 00:59:57.219
for less and don't bother me mint mobile plan 15
1108
00:59:57.219 --> 01:00:03.820
bucks a month 15 bucks a month what is it
1109
01:00:03.820 --> 01:00:07.019
1992 15 bucks a month high speed data unlimited talking
1110
01:00:07.039 --> 01:00:09.320
text delivered on the nation's largest 5g network you can
1111
01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:11.710
even you want to bring your current phone and your
1112
01:00:11.789 --> 01:00:15.989
current number do it get rid of your overpriced wireless
1113
01:00:16.010 --> 01:00:19.230
with mint mobile it's not diabolical it's just good value
1114
01:00:20.570 --> 01:00:22.550
Get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month.
1115
01:00:22.570 --> 01:00:28.789
Go to mintmobile.com slash TWS. That's mintmobile.com slash TWS. Get
1116
01:00:28.809 --> 01:00:33.119
your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com
1117
01:00:33.139 --> 01:00:38.300
slash TWS. That's it. There's no catch. Upfront payments of
1118
01:00:38.300 --> 01:00:39.920
$ 45 for three months, $ 90 for six months, or $ 180
1119
01:00:39.880 --> 01:00:45.599
for 12 months. Plan required. $ 15 per month equivalent. Taxes
1120
01:00:45.619 --> 01:00:48.980
and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes.
1121
01:00:49.219 --> 01:00:51.500
May slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20
1122
01:00:51.500 --> 01:00:56.480
gigabyte hotspot. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies.
1123
01:00:56.800 --> 01:01:06.429
See mintmobile.com. I really hope they speed that up. So
1124
01:01:06.489 --> 01:01:09.409
given all that, and I think that's a summation that
1125
01:01:09.449 --> 01:01:13.250
I would not disagree with, Why is it that the
1126
01:01:13.309 --> 01:01:17.269
Democrats are having such a difficult time? They don't control anything.
1127
01:01:17.849 --> 01:01:19.829
They don't control the Senate. They don't control the Congress.
1128
01:01:19.849 --> 01:01:22.489
They don't control the court and they don't control the
1129
01:01:22.550 --> 01:01:25.429
White House. So what is it about the way that
1130
01:01:25.510 --> 01:01:31.630
Democrats have governed that has allowed this, in my mind,
1131
01:01:31.670 --> 01:01:35.949
cynical and corrupt experiment to take such hold? And when
1132
01:01:35.989 --> 01:01:40.219
will accountability come for that? Because I don't think that
1133
01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:44.630
Trump arose for no reason. I think people were dissatisfied
1134
01:01:45.409 --> 01:01:48.750
with a government that did not seem to be responsive
1135
01:01:49.130 --> 01:01:51.780
to the needs of the people and was at a remove.
1136
01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:55.500
Yes, I agree. And I think what we've seen at
1137
01:01:55.539 --> 01:02:01.130
this point is a sort of limp, status quo, decorum-obsessed
1138
01:02:01.289 --> 01:02:04.650
liberalism is not going to be sufficient to fight what
1139
01:02:04.710 --> 01:02:07.210
I see as rising forces of fascism in the country.
1140
01:02:07.250 --> 01:02:09.469
They weren't historically. You know, when we had a previous
1141
01:02:09.929 --> 01:02:12.860
rise of a fascist movement in this country, it took FDR,
1142
01:02:12.920 --> 01:02:15.239
it took the New Deal coalition, a sort of experiment
1143
01:02:15.280 --> 01:02:17.719
in social democracy here in the U.S.
1144
01:02:17.760 --> 01:02:22.679
Forget about rising fascism, though. How about just like rural broadband?
1145
01:02:23.739 --> 01:02:26.159
I'm not even talking about a party that is not
1146
01:02:26.300 --> 01:02:29.820
up to the task of fighting the Nazis. I'm talking
1147
01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:32.110
about a party that is not up to the task
1148
01:02:32.889 --> 01:02:39.230
of competently governing and easing the difficulties that people are
1149
01:02:39.250 --> 01:02:41.829
facing in their day-to-day lives, not being responsive to their needs.
1150
01:02:43.010 --> 01:02:43.949
See, I would pick up on that.
1151
01:02:43.969 --> 01:02:49.159
Not only not responsive to their needs, but actively gaslighting them.
1152
01:02:49.750 --> 01:02:52.150
about their needs. I mean, we could go back to
1153
01:02:52.170 --> 01:02:56.150
the financial crisis and the response to that, which was
1154
01:02:56.449 --> 01:03:01.239
too little, where there was zero accountability to Wall Street criminals,
1155
01:03:01.699 --> 01:03:06.179
where homeowners were completely screwed. And you can see the
1156
01:03:06.239 --> 01:03:10.519
seeds of that dissatisfaction. And now we've got two generations,
1157
01:03:10.559 --> 01:03:13.699
millennials and Zoomers, and soon it'll be Gen Alpha as well,
1158
01:03:13.980 --> 01:03:16.059
who are being shut down of the American dream, who
1159
01:03:16.179 --> 01:03:19.869
can't aspire to buy a house, who see education costs,
1160
01:03:19.889 --> 01:03:21.449
you know, they're told to go get a college degree.
1161
01:03:21.489 --> 01:03:24.349
That college degree is wildly expensive. They're saddled with debt
1162
01:03:24.389 --> 01:03:25.909
and then they can't get a good job out of it.
1163
01:03:26.369 --> 01:03:28.190
A bunch of AI oligarchs are telling them they're going
1164
01:03:28.210 --> 01:03:30.789
to take their jobs anyway. And there has been a
1165
01:03:31.230 --> 01:03:36.769
wildly insufficient at best response from the Democratic Party establishment
1166
01:03:37.070 --> 01:03:40.420
who have been more interested in palliative care for America
1167
01:03:40.440 --> 01:03:43.019
and the working class of America in particular than.
1168
01:03:42.940 --> 01:03:45.519
Actually solving problems.
1169
01:03:45.280 --> 01:03:49.219
And governing pretty much and governing effectively. And so, you know,
1170
01:03:49.320 --> 01:03:52.139
one of the things that we've seen in the small
1171
01:03:52.179 --> 01:03:55.789
pilot experiment of Zoran Mamdani in New York City, where, look,
1172
01:03:55.829 --> 01:03:57.710
you're the mayor of a city. It's a big city,
1173
01:03:57.750 --> 01:04:00.230
but you've got limited powers, is I do think you
1174
01:04:00.269 --> 01:04:02.849
see a different approach to governance where there's a real
1175
01:04:02.909 --> 01:04:05.210
commitment to, no, we're going to make promises. We're going
1176
01:04:05.230 --> 01:04:07.360
to deliver on those promises. People are going to feel
1177
01:04:07.400 --> 01:04:09.780
the impact of government in a positive way. I'm sure
1178
01:04:09.800 --> 01:04:12.099
you probably saw the story. Someone posted a picture of
1179
01:04:12.139 --> 01:04:14.420
a pothole on, I think it was Instagram. And by
1180
01:04:14.440 --> 01:04:15.960
the end of the day, he had come and filled
1181
01:04:16.019 --> 01:04:19.320
that pothole. It's something small, but it makes people feel like, oh,
1182
01:04:19.760 --> 01:04:22.849
the tax dollars that I'm paying, the government that I elected,
1183
01:04:23.250 --> 01:04:25.630
they actually are trying to make my life better in
1184
01:04:25.670 --> 01:04:28.610
a way that materially improves my quality of life. And
1185
01:04:28.670 --> 01:04:31.949
Democrats have become completely divorced from that. And then, you know,
1186
01:04:31.969 --> 01:04:33.710
the other part of this, of course, hangs over all
1187
01:04:33.730 --> 01:04:35.179
of it is money and politics. I mean, this is
1188
01:04:35.260 --> 01:04:37.440
really the root cause of so much of it, where
1189
01:04:37.619 --> 01:04:41.949
they are beholden to corporations, they're beholden to special interests,
1190
01:04:41.969 --> 01:04:45.590
whether it's APAC or big tech, et cetera, that keeps
1191
01:04:45.630 --> 01:04:48.510
them at odds with the needs and the desires of
1192
01:04:48.550 --> 01:04:50.590
the American people. And so that's why I've been so
1193
01:04:50.670 --> 01:04:53.489
heartened to see this reckoning that is happening between the
1194
01:04:53.530 --> 01:04:56.539
Democratic base and the Democratic establishment in the party.
1195
01:04:57.360 --> 01:05:00.760
Sagar, is that, how do you see the left now?
1196
01:05:01.219 --> 01:05:02.960
Do you buy into the framing? You know, there's a
1197
01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:06.699
lot of talk about now they're socialists and very rarely
1198
01:05:07.119 --> 01:05:10.980
does anyone ever talk about what socialism is. There's, it's
1199
01:05:11.019 --> 01:05:13.760
just a word and no one really describes, you know,
1200
01:05:14.099 --> 01:05:19.210
in terms of specific policy, what socialist about it, how
1201
01:05:19.250 --> 01:05:22.789
do you see the left? What would be your, you know,
1202
01:05:22.969 --> 01:05:28.010
greatest criticism of them? And, and what would be your
1203
01:05:28.110 --> 01:05:31.519
fix to that? How could you see them Right. Recovering
1204
01:05:31.579 --> 01:05:31.880
from that.
1205
01:05:32.059 --> 01:05:34.199
So, I mean, look, I'm I do not speak for
1206
01:05:34.219 --> 01:05:36.780
the right. So I'm a very unique person. I don't
1207
01:05:36.820 --> 01:05:39.329
really care about Hassan Piker. I did an event with him.
1208
01:05:39.510 --> 01:05:42.070
He was fine. We're perfectly cordial. I actually think he's
1209
01:05:42.250 --> 01:05:44.789
not nearly as radical as a lot of people think
1210
01:05:44.829 --> 01:05:46.909
that he is. And so I don't know if I'm
1211
01:05:46.929 --> 01:05:49.760
the best person to answer, but like from my perspective,
1212
01:05:49.969 --> 01:05:53.420
here's what I would say is that fundamentally what I think,
1213
01:05:53.480 --> 01:05:55.500
you know, you guys talked about, you know, there's been
1214
01:05:55.519 --> 01:05:57.239
a lot of like, oh, cultural issues and all of
1215
01:05:57.260 --> 01:05:59.860
that are nonsense. At the end of the day, there's
1216
01:05:59.900 --> 01:06:05.119
only one movement in recent history that won households under $ 100, 000.
1217
01:06:04.440 --> 01:06:07.860
That was Donald Trump in the 2024 campaign, which he
1218
01:06:07.889 --> 01:06:12.030
won the popular vote. The DSA and leftists is predominantly
1219
01:06:12.070 --> 01:06:16.289
a coalition of downwardly mobile white liberals. A lot of
1220
01:06:16.409 --> 01:06:19.050
people who don't have a four-year college degree find the
1221
01:06:19.090 --> 01:06:21.980
movement distasteful or distrust them. We saw that just what
1222
01:06:22.000 --> 01:06:25.880
happened in the Abdul El-Sayed campaign. in the primary election
1223
01:06:25.960 --> 01:06:30.019
where you had older black voters or traditional political constituency
1224
01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:33.039
and households that don't have four-year college did not vote
1225
01:06:33.079 --> 01:06:35.139
for him. So a lot of this.
1226
01:06:35.539 --> 01:06:37.860
Still vote. I mean, that was a democratic primary, but
1227
01:06:38.019 --> 01:06:38.239
go ahead.
1228
01:06:38.519 --> 01:06:41.639
Right. But that's emblematic also in the general election results
1229
01:06:41.659 --> 01:06:44.480
of 2024. So if we try to transpose those two things,
1230
01:06:44.659 --> 01:06:47.340
the most likely predictor of what your politics are in
1231
01:06:47.360 --> 01:06:50.639
this country is whether you have four-year college degree or not.
1232
01:06:50.920 --> 01:06:54.420
And if four-year college degree is also correlated highly with income,
1233
01:06:54.809 --> 01:06:59.329
The Democratic Party, while may having economic positions that supposedly
1234
01:06:59.349 --> 01:07:02.550
benefit the working class, is not convinced the working class
1235
01:07:02.650 --> 01:07:05.809
of that. That's just empirically true. And so that's kind
1236
01:07:05.849 --> 01:07:09.639
of like my criticism, if you will. If it's, you know,
1237
01:07:09.739 --> 01:07:11.940
Crystal gave her speech, so I'll give my worst case,
1238
01:07:12.380 --> 01:07:15.920
you know, my worst faith interpretation would be it's class cosplay.
1239
01:07:16.059 --> 01:07:21.170
I mean, fundamentally, it is some cosplay of dressing up,
1240
01:07:21.639 --> 01:07:25.210
you know, said... you know, basically woke one type policy
1241
01:07:25.269 --> 01:07:26.010
and or rhetoric.
1242
01:07:26.110 --> 01:07:27.730
To explain that. What is woke one?
1243
01:07:27.750 --> 01:07:29.469
Yeah, this is a whole thing, right?
1244
01:07:29.489 --> 01:07:32.269
I mean, also, let's be fair. Like, I mean, Trump
1245
01:07:32.309 --> 01:07:33.989
is the one who puts on the apron and sits
1246
01:07:34.030 --> 01:07:37.050
in the McDonald's wing. Like, talk about cosplay. Like, you know,
1247
01:07:37.090 --> 01:07:38.030
how many times can you hear?
1248
01:07:38.090 --> 01:07:39.650
Depends what type of cosplay we're cosplaying.
1249
01:07:39.670 --> 01:07:41.550
He's a blue collar billionaire. And you're like, yeah, I
1250
01:07:41.590 --> 01:07:42.289
don't think that's a thing.
1251
01:07:42.309 --> 01:07:45.809
He's cosplaying Norman Rockwell America, obviously, which is, you know,
1252
01:07:46.280 --> 01:07:46.969
highly effective.
1253
01:07:47.139 --> 01:07:47.389
All right.
1254
01:07:47.429 --> 01:07:48.940
So you have to grapple with that if you want
1255
01:07:48.960 --> 01:07:53.679
to win in America's in an American politics today. And so, yeah,
1256
01:07:53.760 --> 01:07:55.400
I mean, I think, and we're talking to the whole
1257
01:07:55.420 --> 01:07:56.510
woke one debate.
1258
01:07:57.170 --> 01:07:59.349
Yeah. Tell me what you mean by that, because I'm not.
1259
01:07:59.269 --> 01:08:00.010
Sure I understand.
1260
01:08:00.110 --> 01:08:02.969
AOC recently went on television and she said, quote, woke
1261
01:08:03.110 --> 01:08:05.929
one was crazy. And it was in relation to Francesca Hong,
1262
01:08:05.969 --> 01:08:08.760
who's a DSA candidate who is very likely to win,
1263
01:08:08.840 --> 01:08:12.119
I think tonight was primary in Wisconsin in the gubernatorial
1264
01:08:12.159 --> 01:08:14.739
election in which I don't have the exact tweet in
1265
01:08:14.760 --> 01:08:17.119
front of me had said something along the lines of
1266
01:08:17.220 --> 01:08:20.649
critical of Thanksgiving and She gives an interview in which
1267
01:08:20.689 --> 01:08:23.300
they said, so do you want to cancel Thanksgiving? And
1268
01:08:23.350 --> 01:08:26.850
gives a word salad level of an answer. okay, might
1269
01:08:26.930 --> 01:08:29.609
seem nonsensical. John, you and I both know that in
1270
01:08:29.630 --> 01:08:33.029
this country, that is not exactly how you're going to appeal,
1271
01:08:33.100 --> 01:08:35.819
quote unquote, to the very working class that we're talking
1272
01:08:35.859 --> 01:08:36.279
about here.
1273
01:08:36.359 --> 01:08:37.199
My favorite holiday.
1274
01:08:37.260 --> 01:08:40.079
Yeah, it's most people's favorite holiday. It's most normal people's
1275
01:08:40.319 --> 01:08:44.079
favorite holiday. And so that comes across as deeply disconnected
1276
01:08:44.180 --> 01:08:47.579
and obsessed with, you know, what some activist is either
1277
01:08:47.600 --> 01:08:50.359
going to say towards you or your genuine belief that
1278
01:08:50.439 --> 01:08:53.859
Thanksgiving or just like white society, which she's also talked
1279
01:08:53.880 --> 01:08:56.739
a lot about her own like biracial son and potentially
1280
01:08:56.779 --> 01:09:00.359
being ashamed of that, like that is deeply off putting,
1281
01:09:00.500 --> 01:09:03.010
I think, to a lot of people. And so that
1282
01:09:03.119 --> 01:09:05.649
is where like to the extent that I have a critique,
1283
01:09:05.789 --> 01:09:08.710
I guess, is they're saying, oh, woke one was crazy.
1284
01:09:08.750 --> 01:09:10.590
And it's like, no, but you still believe many of
1285
01:09:10.649 --> 01:09:12.550
the things that woke one. consisted of.
1286
01:09:12.829 --> 01:09:15.170
She's still saying that now? No, no, no.
1287
01:09:15.250 --> 01:09:18.710
What I'm saying is AOC had said Woke One was crazy.
1288
01:09:18.890 --> 01:09:20.949
As in the rhetoric that we use, there was an
1289
01:09:21.130 --> 01:09:21.909
Overton window.
1290
01:09:22.449 --> 01:09:24.069
Oh, okay. All right. I see what you're saying.
1291
01:09:24.140 --> 01:09:26.420
And she made it clear that much of the rhetoric
1292
01:09:26.520 --> 01:09:30.399
that was used from 2020 was bad, right? And I'm like, okay,
1293
01:09:30.460 --> 01:09:33.939
that's fine. But- kind of, John, as you're saying. If
1294
01:09:34.199 --> 01:09:37.149
the rhetoric was bad, well, what about the idea? Do
1295
01:09:37.199 --> 01:09:40.989
you still believe in defund the police? Zoran had explicitly
1296
01:09:41.029 --> 01:09:43.449
apologized to the cops and said, no, I'm sorry I
1297
01:09:43.569 --> 01:09:46.689
said that. And so, okay, that's fine for people like me.
1298
01:09:46.949 --> 01:09:49.119
But isn't on the flip side of that, isn't going
1299
01:09:49.140 --> 01:09:52.579
through people's old tweets, isn't that what the right hated about?
1300
01:09:52.619 --> 01:09:56.220
Absolutely fair. Fair. You're right. It's part of cancel culture.
1301
01:09:56.460 --> 01:10:00.399
It has the right... Embrace cancel culture, yes, especially whenever
1302
01:10:00.439 --> 01:10:03.319
it comes to anti-Semitism and all of this.
1303
01:10:03.590 --> 01:10:04.229
Or Bud Light.
1304
01:10:04.319 --> 01:10:05.229
Or Bud Light, sure.
1305
01:10:05.250 --> 01:10:08.710
But yeah, I get what you're saying. Is so much
1306
01:10:08.829 --> 01:10:13.930
of woke now or cancel culture or anything also just
1307
01:10:14.569 --> 01:10:21.369
the ubiquity of social media, meaning we've democratized criticism. So
1308
01:10:21.590 --> 01:10:26.310
social media makes its money on outrage, conflict, all those things.
1309
01:10:27.810 --> 01:10:33.159
different things, isn't it just a reflection of there is
1310
01:10:33.220 --> 01:10:37.779
no such thing as non-cancel culture because everything that you say,
1311
01:10:38.859 --> 01:10:43.010
somebody will try and seek advantage of it and highlight
1312
01:10:43.050 --> 01:10:46.689
it and amplify it to help them do that.
1313
01:10:46.750 --> 01:10:47.130
Certainly.
1314
01:10:47.270 --> 01:10:51.989
And I also don't understand how, you know, the idea that, well,
1315
01:10:52.130 --> 01:10:55.239
she said Thanksgiving should be canceled, so she's crazy, but
1316
01:10:55.460 --> 01:10:59.020
he said Trump won the 2020 election, but that's fine.
1317
01:10:59.220 --> 01:10:59.420
Right.
1318
01:10:59.579 --> 01:11:00.800
We're all just going to go along with it.
1319
01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:02.659
Is it fine though? Well, no, but I'm saying- I
1320
01:11:02.899 --> 01:11:05.380
think people who say that get plenty of criticism though.
1321
01:11:05.460 --> 01:11:07.119
I don't think it's fine. I don't think that's true.
1322
01:11:07.159 --> 01:11:09.840
But they get criticism, but there's no accountability. It's not
1323
01:11:09.880 --> 01:11:12.739
like they don't still get confirmed by the Senate. Okay.
1324
01:11:12.800 --> 01:11:14.869
It's not that they get- They can sit in a
1325
01:11:14.949 --> 01:11:15.750
confirmation here.
1326
01:11:15.789 --> 01:11:19.569
For example, Mike Rogers is an election denier. And I
1327
01:11:19.609 --> 01:11:21.510
haven't seen all the hand-wringing about like, oh, my God,
1328
01:11:21.550 --> 01:11:22.630
is he going to be able to win and win
1329
01:11:23.590 --> 01:11:26.289
over moderate voters because he's such an extremist on this?
1330
01:11:26.510 --> 01:11:28.850
See, I'm not sure that's true. I see that story
1331
01:11:28.890 --> 01:11:29.689
like two days ago.
1332
01:11:29.729 --> 01:11:32.630
What I've heard is all about how extreme Abdul is because, oh,
1333
01:11:32.649 --> 01:11:34.300
my God, he hung out with Hassan Piker.
1334
01:11:34.380 --> 01:11:35.140
How dare he?
1335
01:11:35.649 --> 01:11:39.779
Versus Mike Rogers, who actually holds these views himself and
1336
01:11:39.920 --> 01:11:42.859
has expressed them multiple times, that's not framed as being
1337
01:11:42.939 --> 01:11:45.470
too extreme for a moderate voter.
1338
01:11:45.529 --> 01:11:48.710
But I'm sure he doesn't actually hold those views. Again,
1339
01:11:48.729 --> 01:11:52.000
it's cynical. He doesn't actually hold them. I'm sure he's
1340
01:11:52.039 --> 01:11:52.859
not an idiot. Right.
1341
01:11:52.960 --> 01:11:54.619
But it doesn't really matter at the end of the
1342
01:11:54.659 --> 01:11:57.090
day whether he believes it in his heart of hearts
1343
01:11:57.489 --> 01:11:59.970
or whether it's a cynical posture. He's going to act
1344
01:12:00.029 --> 01:12:02.029
and behave in the same way because he's going to
1345
01:12:02.050 --> 01:12:04.649
be a rubber stamp for Donald Trump at the end
1346
01:12:04.670 --> 01:12:07.489
of the day. So, no, I think woke is, you know,
1347
01:12:07.529 --> 01:12:10.520
and especially the current iteration of woke coming from the
1348
01:12:10.560 --> 01:12:11.220
Trump administration.
1349
01:12:11.260 --> 01:12:14.300
Now, what's the current? So what's if that's woke point one,
1350
01:12:14.340 --> 01:12:15.159
what's woke point two?
1351
01:12:15.699 --> 01:12:18.000
Well, that's, I think, up for debate. But currently we're
1352
01:12:18.020 --> 01:12:21.739
living through a Trump regime that wants to crush any
1353
01:12:21.819 --> 01:12:24.640
sort of dissent. The place where they've come down the
1354
01:12:24.680 --> 01:12:27.300
hardest is on any sort of criticism of Israel, which
1355
01:12:27.359 --> 01:12:30.340
is characterized as being anti-Semitic. And they've used it as
1356
01:12:30.380 --> 01:12:35.649
an excuse to jail, to crush protests, to deport. And
1357
01:12:36.029 --> 01:12:40.149
as part of their NSPM 7 project, they also use
1358
01:12:40.170 --> 01:12:43.369
that to label you as effectively a terrorist and subject
1359
01:12:43.409 --> 01:12:46.920
to potential government action and surveillance. So it goes far
1360
01:12:46.979 --> 01:12:51.420
beyond some like social media cancellation campaign at this point.
1361
01:12:51.800 --> 01:12:55.000
And I think really does expose how at its core,
1362
01:12:55.119 --> 01:12:59.199
this is really about controlling the bounds of debate, about
1363
01:12:59.619 --> 01:13:04.710
scaring people into compliance, you know, against an unpopular policy
1364
01:13:05.090 --> 01:13:07.649
and about maintaining power. So I think that's the way
1365
01:13:07.689 --> 01:13:09.310
that it's really been deployed by Trump.
1366
01:13:09.329 --> 01:13:11.289
Does that sound like woke 2.0 to you, Sagar?
1367
01:13:11.449 --> 01:13:16.619
It's this is the difficulty. I accept Crystal's entire critique
1368
01:13:16.880 --> 01:13:21.359
as that is the definition of woke. I've described the anti-Semitism,
1369
01:13:21.880 --> 01:13:25.520
you know, freak out in the administration as like Ibrahim X.
1370
01:13:25.579 --> 01:13:30.310
Kendi's dream come true, like going after, you know, universities
1371
01:13:30.350 --> 01:13:35.170
and saying you're not sufficiently and not anti-anti-Semitic enough. I
1372
01:13:35.189 --> 01:13:37.310
think it's outrageous. I think it's obviously a violation and
1373
01:13:37.350 --> 01:13:40.590
all of that of free speech. Woke 2.0 is what
1374
01:13:40.789 --> 01:13:44.210
I think is, you know, for example, Abdul El-Sayed, the
1375
01:13:44.229 --> 01:13:47.899
candidate in Michigan, literally claimed that he'd never said defund
1376
01:13:47.920 --> 01:13:50.840
the police. He did say it. He lied about that. Now,
1377
01:13:50.979 --> 01:13:54.069
that's an important thing. Okay, but John, he said it,
1378
01:13:54.170 --> 01:13:56.189
and he lied that he didn't say it. He deleted
1379
01:13:56.229 --> 01:13:58.529
his tweet, and that's fine. That may not be objectionable
1380
01:13:58.590 --> 01:14:00.470
to you, but it certainly is objectionable.
1381
01:14:00.670 --> 01:14:03.170
We've all lived through the campaign ads of guys on
1382
01:14:03.210 --> 01:14:05.840
the left having to walk with police and go like...
1383
01:14:06.229 --> 01:14:07.930
It's actually, they're quite nice.
1384
01:14:08.220 --> 01:14:11.100
Well, I actually think that's healthy and good because it
1385
01:14:11.300 --> 01:14:14.220
establishes good norms in society as opposed to, you know,
1386
01:14:14.279 --> 01:14:16.260
like wanting to defund and or ban police.
1387
01:14:16.439 --> 01:14:21.430
Well, that's, I never understood why progressives reject safety, public
1388
01:14:21.510 --> 01:14:25.710
safety as a non-progressive value. I always look at it
1389
01:14:25.850 --> 01:14:31.609
as don't people in the most economically devastated areas deserve
1390
01:14:31.649 --> 01:14:36.020
the same level of law and order that people in
1391
01:14:36.060 --> 01:14:41.359
Beverly Hills enjoy. I never understood why you would hold
1392
01:14:41.399 --> 01:14:44.720
back on that. But Tucker, the anti-Semitism thing is kind
1393
01:14:44.739 --> 01:14:48.939
of interesting to me as someone who's received pretty good
1394
01:14:48.979 --> 01:14:52.319
anti-Semitic stuff and been accused of being it myself. You know,
1395
01:14:52.350 --> 01:14:54.939
if you look at the Twitter feed, I'll always get like,
1396
01:14:54.979 --> 01:14:58.289
you're a dirty Jew, along with you're a capo. Like,
1397
01:14:58.789 --> 01:15:02.529
you get it all. I'm interested on the right, this
1398
01:15:02.630 --> 01:15:07.680
idea of you know, they fight anti-Semitism when very clearly
1399
01:15:08.000 --> 01:15:12.800
they hire people. You know, there's the Republican, young Republican
1400
01:15:12.840 --> 01:15:15.770
club in New York where they go through their chat
1401
01:15:15.789 --> 01:15:21.289
history and it's just vile, like flat out anti-Semitism. Or J.D.
1402
01:15:21.310 --> 01:15:25.250
Vance will say, look, the Nazi jokes, who doesn't like
1403
01:15:25.369 --> 01:15:28.340
to have a Nazi joke? I don't think we should
1404
01:15:28.380 --> 01:15:33.539
hold that against people. While basically forcing universities to pay
1405
01:15:33.600 --> 01:15:37.720
them millions and millions of dollars it's again can you
1406
01:15:37.880 --> 01:15:42.970
understand why the whole thing feels cynical.
1407
01:15:42.930 --> 01:15:44.909
Sure yeah and you're right because it is cynical because
1408
01:15:44.930 --> 01:15:47.329
it's not about anti-semitism it's about israel that's what it's
1409
01:15:47.369 --> 01:15:49.489
about it's about the unholy alliance.
1410
01:15:49.189 --> 01:15:52.310
But can't you understand now how writ large the whole
1411
01:15:52.439 --> 01:15:54.479
operation seems cynical.
1412
01:15:54.939 --> 01:15:56.699
Yeah, but I would say that a lot of Democratic
1413
01:15:56.819 --> 01:15:58.270
stuff is just as cynical, right?
1414
01:15:58.350 --> 01:16:02.510
And so then– Very well be, but you'd have to
1415
01:16:02.590 --> 01:16:05.489
tell me those– you'd have to make those points to
1416
01:16:05.560 --> 01:16:07.979
me as well. I could tell you what's cynical and
1417
01:16:08.020 --> 01:16:11.060
what's not, but I don't hear a lot of specificity
1418
01:16:11.220 --> 01:16:12.560
in the criticism.
1419
01:16:12.560 --> 01:16:15.770
100% fair. How much time do we have? I think–
1420
01:16:16.569 --> 01:16:17.090
Not much.
1421
01:16:17.130 --> 01:16:18.010
You're busy people.
1422
01:16:18.689 --> 01:16:20.250
I think to your I do want to pick up
1423
01:16:20.310 --> 01:16:21.130
on the anti-Semitism.
1424
01:16:21.250 --> 01:16:21.449
Sure.
1425
01:16:21.489 --> 01:16:23.750
Just because I do want people to I want this
1426
01:16:23.810 --> 01:16:28.020
to be emphasized is it does expose the lie at
1427
01:16:28.060 --> 01:16:30.000
the heart of it. As you just said, that any
1428
01:16:30.039 --> 01:16:33.840
of this is really about anti-Semitism or any genuine concern.
1429
01:16:34.300 --> 01:16:38.649
It's about Israel. And it is just the pro-Israel alliance
1430
01:16:39.130 --> 01:16:42.810
with the Trump administration. And, you know, Chris, you eloquently
1431
01:16:43.270 --> 01:16:46.140
talked about woke 2.0. and how it's about power. I
1432
01:16:46.180 --> 01:16:50.189
think Woke 1.0 was also about power, cultural takeover, in
1433
01:16:50.229 --> 01:16:53.090
order to defend an unpopular policy. So I think they
1434
01:16:53.109 --> 01:16:55.449
both have two things in common. And in both cases,
1435
01:16:55.649 --> 01:16:58.609
I think both are genuinely not about what they allegedly
1436
01:16:58.630 --> 01:17:02.109
were supposed to be, anti-Semitism and or racism. I think
1437
01:17:02.170 --> 01:17:04.850
both are about cultural power. Who gets to have said
1438
01:17:04.890 --> 01:17:07.689
power in our society? Again, I would say I would
1439
01:17:07.890 --> 01:17:11.270
never have predicted it, John. And perhaps that's the dupe
1440
01:17:11.989 --> 01:17:13.800
in me, but You know, how can you come up
1441
01:17:13.840 --> 01:17:15.960
with people who've been talking about free speech for 10
1442
01:17:15.960 --> 01:17:19.239
years only to then, when they have power, deport people
1443
01:17:19.279 --> 01:17:21.399
for what they have said? I would not have predicted that, never,
1444
01:17:21.550 --> 01:17:23.489
in a million years. And so I do have to
1445
01:17:23.510 --> 01:17:26.390
be forced to accept some of your own criticism of
1446
01:17:26.409 --> 01:17:26.909
what you're saying.
1447
01:17:27.090 --> 01:17:32.189
I'm just saying, like Donald Trump said to Zuckerberg, Mark Zuckerberg,
1448
01:17:33.810 --> 01:17:37.470
Zuckerbucks is what threw the election. And so if he
1449
01:17:37.510 --> 01:17:40.340
tries that again, I'm going to put him in jail. Mm-hmm.
1450
01:17:42.840 --> 01:17:45.619
I said that to Elon Musk. I said, so you
1451
01:17:45.680 --> 01:17:49.840
said free speech is your line. You're supporting a guy
1452
01:17:50.140 --> 01:17:54.479
who's literally threatened to jail somebody if they exercise their
1453
01:17:54.500 --> 01:17:58.619
free speech while you're, as a social media mogul, doing
1454
01:17:58.819 --> 01:18:03.340
far more direct electioneering, giving away a million dollars here,
1455
01:18:03.760 --> 01:18:09.100
setting up an algorithm that favors conservative content. How can
1456
01:18:09.140 --> 01:18:12.380
you justify that? And he says, oh, Trump has just
1457
01:18:12.779 --> 01:18:18.170
That's just talk. So I guess my point is, you
1458
01:18:18.210 --> 01:18:20.529
see the clues you want to see, Crystal, and the
1459
01:18:20.550 --> 01:18:24.399
same could be said from the left. If somebody was saying, yeah, man,
1460
01:18:24.489 --> 01:18:27.359
I'm going to open all the borders, and then that's
1461
01:18:27.399 --> 01:18:31.199
what happens. And you say, when you say, well, they
1462
01:18:31.239 --> 01:18:34.119
said it, how can you pretend that they didn't?
1463
01:18:36.590 --> 01:18:40.779
Well, yeah. I mean, I think to me, it's not
1464
01:18:40.800 --> 01:18:43.399
just about listening to the rhetoric. It's also looking at
1465
01:18:43.500 --> 01:18:47.550
the actions. And, you know, I mean, look, it's no
1466
01:18:47.590 --> 01:18:50.159
secret Trump behaves like an authoritarian. He does it in
1467
01:18:50.229 --> 01:18:52.869
his business. He did it in Trump 1.0. You want
1468
01:18:52.890 --> 01:18:56.149
to just shoot protesters in the knees. That's hardly pro
1469
01:18:56.210 --> 01:19:00.250
First Amendment, pro free speech type of activity. And on
1470
01:19:00.510 --> 01:19:03.850
anti-Semitism specifically, I mean, there's always been even at the
1471
01:19:03.869 --> 01:19:07.050
height of, oh, we're pro free speech, etc., there's always
1472
01:19:07.069 --> 01:19:09.739
been a carve out for Israel. I mean, just look
1473
01:19:09.779 --> 01:19:12.779
at these anti-BDS laws across the country. Look at the
1474
01:19:12.819 --> 01:19:17.180
number of professors who had their careers attacked by free
1475
01:19:17.220 --> 01:19:20.649
speech maven Barry Weiss as one example. So there's always
1476
01:19:20.689 --> 01:19:24.590
been a carve out there because it's about protecting Israel.
1477
01:19:24.649 --> 01:19:27.930
And it's also about a lot of the influence they've
1478
01:19:27.949 --> 01:19:30.689
successfully been able to wield, which is not unique to
1479
01:19:30.710 --> 01:19:32.920
the Israel lobby, but is very central to the way
1480
01:19:32.960 --> 01:19:34.520
that our politics ultimately operate.
1481
01:19:34.800 --> 01:19:35.380
I totally agree.
1482
01:19:35.560 --> 01:19:37.020
Sagar, you were going to say something. I'm sorry I
1483
01:19:37.020 --> 01:19:37.359
cut you off.
1484
01:19:37.699 --> 01:19:39.100
Oh, honestly, I don't even remember.
1485
01:19:42.220 --> 01:19:44.119
That's a perfect place to stop.
1486
01:19:45.180 --> 01:19:48.359
Hold on, John. If I don't say that my husband,
1487
01:19:48.399 --> 01:19:50.569
Kyle Kalinsky, wants you to run for president and is
1488
01:19:50.590 --> 01:19:52.390
your biggest booster, then he's going to divorce me.
1489
01:19:52.470 --> 01:19:53.350
So I have to put that out there.
1490
01:19:53.369 --> 01:19:58.609
Oh, dear God. Don't let the divorce. I so want
1491
01:19:58.649 --> 01:20:01.270
you two to work out, but I don't want to.
1492
01:20:03.159 --> 01:20:04.920
Come on, the country needs you, John.
1493
01:20:04.979 --> 01:20:09.840
Do you guys talk about, in your mind, is there
1494
01:20:10.260 --> 01:20:14.960
a leader that you think could arise that could put
1495
01:20:15.079 --> 01:20:20.039
behind us this weaponized environment we currently live in, run
1496
01:20:20.119 --> 01:20:25.359
on a platform of sane policy, competently executed? Do you
1497
01:20:25.399 --> 01:20:29.020
think they could do that? And is there someone out
1498
01:20:29.060 --> 01:20:32.149
there that you view as having that potential?
1499
01:20:32.619 --> 01:20:34.979
Yes, I think you could do that, John. Yes, I
1500
01:20:35.010 --> 01:20:38.520
think you could do that. Well, no, I was just
1501
01:20:38.539 --> 01:20:40.680
going to say there is an agenda for the taking
1502
01:20:40.920 --> 01:20:42.680
for someone. I don't know who that someone is.
1503
01:20:42.899 --> 01:20:45.189
No question. Certainly on the left. It's wide open.
1504
01:20:45.279 --> 01:20:47.949
There is an agenda for the taking that is about
1505
01:20:48.170 --> 01:20:51.729
economic populism. Yes. It's about pushing back against the tech oligarchs,
1506
01:20:52.109 --> 01:20:54.649
fighting back against these data centers that are taking over
1507
01:20:54.710 --> 01:20:58.760
communities and which are hated by left right center. Doesn't
1508
01:20:58.909 --> 01:21:03.079
matter about a foreign policy, which is about investing in
1509
01:21:03.439 --> 01:21:07.739
America rather than fighting these oligarchs. horrific, immoral foreign wars
1510
01:21:07.880 --> 01:21:11.319
and backstopping a genocide. To me, there is a broad
1511
01:21:11.500 --> 01:21:16.100
FDR-style coalition that is there for the taking if you
1512
01:21:16.140 --> 01:21:19.479
have the right person who has credibility in expressing those
1513
01:21:19.510 --> 01:21:20.510
values in the right way.
1514
01:21:20.970 --> 01:21:22.170
Sagar?
1515
01:21:22.210 --> 01:21:25.449
I don't know about a specific person. I do have
1516
01:21:25.489 --> 01:21:28.590
a general kind of theory. I love to read history books,
1517
01:21:29.090 --> 01:21:31.060
is that we talked about the 60s and the 70s.
1518
01:21:32.029 --> 01:21:34.010
And one of the most unique parts of Jimmy Carter's
1519
01:21:34.069 --> 01:21:36.170
rise is that if you had gone a few years before,
1520
01:21:36.409 --> 01:21:38.720
nobody would have predicted that somebody like him could have
1521
01:21:38.729 --> 01:21:41.300
been elected. Now, let's ignore how he actually governed and
1522
01:21:41.500 --> 01:21:44.039
kind of the promise of Carter itself.
1523
01:21:44.159 --> 01:21:46.939
It was an oil shock. All right. Yeah, sure.
1524
01:21:47.060 --> 01:21:51.300
It wasn't just oil. But I do think a really
1525
01:21:51.359 --> 01:21:55.510
interesting idea is that the Trump era began with the escalator.
1526
01:21:55.670 --> 01:21:59.550
The celebrity politics era began with Obama that we've now
1527
01:21:59.689 --> 01:22:03.970
lived with 20 so years of Of celebrity politics that
1528
01:22:04.010 --> 01:22:06.609
an inevitable swing back would be to the type of
1529
01:22:06.649 --> 01:22:10.050
thing you're talking about an executive, an executive, a level
1530
01:22:10.069 --> 01:22:14.029
of seriousness in anti charisma, a level of like nerdish,
1531
01:22:14.289 --> 01:22:17.449
you know, miss almost in the way that Carter's sheer
1532
01:22:17.750 --> 01:22:24.520
moral impeachability. was so important to the country in a post-Watergate, post-Nixon,
1533
01:22:24.899 --> 01:22:27.000
post-LBJ environment.
1534
01:22:27.180 --> 01:22:28.739
Governor of Iowa type dude.
1535
01:22:28.899 --> 01:22:33.020
Exactly. But with the right politics. So that's the key.
1536
01:22:33.060 --> 01:22:35.250
The key to those two things is many of what
1537
01:22:35.430 --> 01:22:36.069
Crystal just said.
1538
01:22:36.149 --> 01:22:38.930
And the right ability to communicate those politics. I think
1539
01:22:38.949 --> 01:22:40.390
there might be some people that exist without that.
1540
01:22:40.510 --> 01:22:43.010
If you put those together, the country is desperate for
1541
01:22:43.390 --> 01:22:44.170
genuine leadership.
1542
01:22:44.270 --> 01:22:44.770
Desperate.
1543
01:22:44.789 --> 01:22:45.369
That's what I think.
1544
01:22:45.590 --> 01:22:52.420
So thirsty. Final question. Trump? famously chose the escalator, which
1545
01:22:52.479 --> 01:22:56.939
to me is maybe the least authoritative mode of transportation
1546
01:22:58.840 --> 01:23:03.180
there is. It's literally, it's gravity and you don't even
1547
01:23:03.220 --> 01:23:06.829
have to move your legs. But it's cinematic. Yeah. You just,
1548
01:23:07.350 --> 01:23:11.590
you're heading down. What would be, for our next great leader,
1549
01:23:11.689 --> 01:23:15.529
what would be the mode of conveyance that they could choose?
1550
01:23:16.109 --> 01:23:21.380
Would it be people mover? chariot what anything.
1551
01:23:21.319 --> 01:23:24.430
They should announce it on breaking points breaking points.
1552
01:23:24.229 --> 01:23:27.430
The segue majestic.
1553
01:23:27.090 --> 01:23:32.430
Yeah the final plug the final damn plug uh i
1554
01:23:32.470 --> 01:23:35.449
can't thank you guys enough uh crystal ball and saga
1555
01:23:35.479 --> 01:23:37.699
and jetty of of breaking points please check out the
1556
01:23:37.739 --> 01:23:40.399
show because it is and and i don't say this
1557
01:23:40.500 --> 01:23:46.920
lightly uh good faith good faith conversation that you may
1558
01:23:46.960 --> 01:23:49.439
not agree with some of it, you may have arguments,
1559
01:23:49.779 --> 01:23:55.220
but it never feels cynical, it never feels manipulated, and
1560
01:23:55.260 --> 01:23:57.300
it never feels performative.
1561
01:23:57.880 --> 01:23:59.050
That's extremely kind, John.
1562
01:23:59.229 --> 01:24:02.130
And I really do appreciate that for the both of you.
1563
01:24:02.329 --> 01:24:03.829
It's not an easy trick to pull.
1564
01:24:03.930 --> 01:24:05.050
Thank you. Thank you very much.
1565
01:24:05.069 --> 01:24:06.569
It means a lot coming from you, John.
1566
01:24:06.590 --> 01:24:07.210
Thank you so much.
1567
01:24:07.479 --> 01:24:09.899
My last plug, my parents adore you.
1568
01:24:10.180 --> 01:24:10.760
I love them.
1569
01:24:10.859 --> 01:24:13.840
I think my mom met you in an airport once.
1570
01:24:13.920 --> 01:24:14.920
Wait, for real? Yes.
1571
01:24:15.100 --> 01:24:18.109
She said you were extremely kind to her. So thank you.
1572
01:24:18.270 --> 01:24:20.170
And I was in the front row at the rally
1573
01:24:20.210 --> 01:24:22.250
to restore sanity at age 18. Did it work?
1574
01:24:22.270 --> 01:24:22.909
It did work.
1575
01:24:23.630 --> 01:24:25.550
Clearly didn't take.
1576
01:24:25.590 --> 01:24:26.789
But I was there. I was there.
1577
01:24:27.850 --> 01:24:29.119
Thank you guys both for being with us.
1578
01:24:29.649 --> 01:24:29.970
Thank you.
1579
01:24:37.750 --> 01:24:40.649
Folks, you know, I am nothing if not a generator
1580
01:24:40.689 --> 01:24:43.260
of ideas that may never work. Obviously, we've talked a
1581
01:24:43.279 --> 01:24:45.300
little bit on the show about the crumple, which is
1582
01:24:45.380 --> 01:24:47.420
the portable dog bed that you throw on the ground
1583
01:24:47.439 --> 01:24:51.409
that makes a different topographical shape each time you do it.
1584
01:24:51.859 --> 01:24:53.439
Think of it as the way your dog likes to
1585
01:24:53.479 --> 01:24:58.619
sit on your coat, although officially a more dog appropriate
1586
01:24:58.939 --> 01:25:02.119
blanket type thing hasn't come into production or fruition yet.
1587
01:25:02.520 --> 01:25:04.619
But this Shopify thing, if you've got an idea, if
1588
01:25:04.640 --> 01:25:07.350
you're somebody that always thinks, oh, you know, it would
1589
01:25:07.390 --> 01:25:09.989
be a great business. This is the thing that makes
1590
01:25:10.029 --> 01:25:12.390
it work. It makes it ready to go from day one.
1591
01:25:12.449 --> 01:25:13.649
And I don't know how they did it. I think
1592
01:25:13.670 --> 01:25:16.590
with zeros and ones, I don't know how this works,
1593
01:25:17.470 --> 01:25:19.270
to be honest with you. I don't know how computers
1594
01:25:19.310 --> 01:25:23.210
work in general or apps work. Zeros and ones, and
1595
01:25:23.229 --> 01:25:25.170
then you feed it into a box where I guess
1596
01:25:25.350 --> 01:25:27.949
eight brilliant gerbils live and they do the rest of
1597
01:25:27.970 --> 01:25:30.869
the work. I have no idea. It's easy to design
1598
01:25:30.890 --> 01:25:33.039
your shop. It's easy to get paid. They handle the
1599
01:25:33.079 --> 01:25:36.430
checkout process. You might think to yourself, like, oh, how
1600
01:25:36.449 --> 01:25:39.220
are they going to complete their purchase? Shopify handles it.
1601
01:25:39.970 --> 01:25:42.329
Gets them to come back as repeat customers. Setup and
1602
01:25:42.350 --> 01:25:46.590
checkout are all handled. So get Shopify, for God's sakes.
1603
01:25:46.869 --> 01:25:51.020
With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real business.
1604
01:25:51.420 --> 01:25:55.140
So go make it one. Start your free trial at Shopify.com
1605
01:25:55.420 --> 01:26:00.659
slash TWS. Start your free trial at Shopify.com slash TWS.
1606
01:26:05.640 --> 01:26:11.550
You can so tell Sager's parents do not agree with him,
1607
01:26:11.810 --> 01:26:20.229
but he's learned the gentle art of accepting his parents' wrongness,
1608
01:26:20.890 --> 01:26:23.210
but dealing with them in a kind way. Like, I
1609
01:26:23.250 --> 01:26:24.850
can't tell you how many times he said to me, like,
1610
01:26:26.199 --> 01:26:29.479
I see how you got there. Well, certainly I can
1611
01:26:29.659 --> 01:26:33.600
understand that. why you might think that but like that
1612
01:26:33.659 --> 01:26:37.189
is a guy trying to get through the weekend he
1613
01:26:37.250 --> 01:26:38.029
is spending at.
1614
01:26:38.010 --> 01:26:42.189
Home I'm gonna steal some of those like rhetorical flourishes
1615
01:26:42.390 --> 01:26:45.119
yeah that's um he has the patience first of all
1616
01:26:45.140 --> 01:26:49.300
it was saying like just I I fantastic Really admirable
1617
01:26:49.520 --> 01:26:51.649
what he does. What they both do, but what he
1618
01:26:51.670 --> 01:26:53.949
did in this conversation because it was a bit of two-on-one.
1619
01:26:54.069 --> 01:26:56.409
So shout out to Sagar.
1620
01:26:56.449 --> 01:26:58.310
I did feel bad on that. There was a certain point.
1621
01:26:58.550 --> 01:27:00.369
But when he would say, like, it's not cynical, and
1622
01:27:00.390 --> 01:27:00.550
I'd be.
1623
01:27:00.550 --> 01:27:02.229
Like, come on!
1624
01:27:02.310 --> 01:27:03.380
God! Sagar!
1625
01:27:03.420 --> 01:27:04.439
Help yourself, yeah.
1626
01:27:04.680 --> 01:27:05.800
How can it not be cynical?
1627
01:27:06.600 --> 01:27:09.739
When he said they love how much it drives you crazy,
1628
01:27:10.619 --> 01:27:14.039
that really hit me because I was like, so that's
1629
01:27:14.079 --> 01:27:16.850
why my family behaves this way in the group chat.
1630
01:27:16.949 --> 01:27:18.229
Yeah. Really?
1631
01:27:18.569 --> 01:27:21.720
Last week, I left the group chat because the memes, the,
1632
01:27:21.760 --> 01:27:23.840
you know, the Fauci shit. Oh, my God. It just
1633
01:27:23.880 --> 01:27:26.979
like surged. And I was like, I'm out. I can't.
1634
01:27:27.140 --> 01:27:27.380
Right.
1635
01:27:27.699 --> 01:27:30.100
I mean, I've highly suspected for years that this was
1636
01:27:30.159 --> 01:27:32.260
all just to own the libs. And just for that
1637
01:27:32.279 --> 01:27:35.659
to be confirmed in that moment was gratifying, but also
1638
01:27:35.720 --> 01:27:37.000
really upsetting.
1639
01:27:37.920 --> 01:27:41.880
Right. But it's also in some ways it's verified my
1640
01:27:41.920 --> 01:27:46.479
decision to never join group chats. Oh, yeah. I do
1641
01:27:46.560 --> 01:27:50.729
not have. There are no long straight, the largest group
1642
01:27:50.750 --> 01:27:53.550
chat I have is literally with the guys that I
1643
01:27:53.569 --> 01:27:56.590
play music with. Okay. That's a reasonable number. There's four
1644
01:27:56.630 --> 01:28:00.739
of us. Yeah. And the only discussions are, the discussions
1645
01:28:00.800 --> 01:28:02.199
are always like Tuesday night.
1646
01:28:03.439 --> 01:28:04.600
And then it's a bunch of thumbs ups.
1647
01:28:05.020 --> 01:28:06.000
What about Wednesday?
1648
01:28:06.199 --> 01:28:06.420
Right.
1649
01:28:06.600 --> 01:28:09.659
Can't, you know, it's that there's not a lot of,
1650
01:28:10.380 --> 01:28:12.720
you know, fuck COVID, like none of that stuff.
1651
01:28:12.899 --> 01:28:13.819
I see where you're coming from.
1652
01:28:14.060 --> 01:28:18.060
That's exactly right. Brittany, what do we got on this,
1653
01:28:18.239 --> 01:28:19.579
our final episode of the summer?
1654
01:28:20.100 --> 01:28:23.180
I know, how sad. Okay, John, do you think the
1655
01:28:23.199 --> 01:28:25.399
White House press corps is cool with taking a bullet
1656
01:28:25.510 --> 01:28:27.229
or a surface-to-air missile for Trump?
1657
01:28:27.689 --> 01:28:33.250
Absolutely. Of course they would say to themselves, if we
1658
01:28:33.310 --> 01:28:37.949
can be the decoy, if we, if sir, if killing
1659
01:28:38.029 --> 01:28:42.340
us makes you safe, however that would be, do you
1660
01:28:42.350 --> 01:28:44.140
want one of us to put on the Trump wig?
1661
01:28:44.850 --> 01:28:46.659
Do you want us to put on the red tie
1662
01:28:47.000 --> 01:28:50.180
and do that? And, and like show shadows.
1663
01:28:50.199 --> 01:28:52.260
I'll jump in front of the catering cart myself.
1664
01:28:52.479 --> 01:28:52.920
Sure.
1665
01:28:53.340 --> 01:28:55.539
Whatever it is you want us to do, sir. Do
1666
01:28:55.579 --> 01:28:58.260
you want us to taste your food? to make sure
1667
01:28:58.300 --> 01:29:01.930
that it is in no way contaminated. Although now with
1668
01:29:02.010 --> 01:29:06.729
Kennedy running HHS, you don't know if it's contaminated because
1669
01:29:06.770 --> 01:29:10.729
of a foreign act of assassination or there's just diarrhea
1670
01:29:10.770 --> 01:29:12.789
parasites and everything.
1671
01:29:12.869 --> 01:29:14.510
Yeah, that was- Common misconception.
1672
01:29:14.630 --> 01:29:17.069
That was a wild story. Although Kayla Collins, again, because
1673
01:29:17.100 --> 01:29:19.380
Kayla Collins, she does her research. She says, you know,
1674
01:29:19.420 --> 01:29:24.859
that is not unprecedented that a president has had to
1675
01:29:25.020 --> 01:29:28.939
change plans based on a certain threat. And it wasn't
1676
01:29:28.979 --> 01:29:33.100
until afterwards that it was explained to the people who
1677
01:29:33.159 --> 01:29:38.220
remained on the targeted conveyance. Hey, by the way, just
1678
01:29:38.239 --> 01:29:40.310
wanted to let you guys know now that we're here safely,
1679
01:29:41.689 --> 01:29:43.989
there were a lot of lasers being pointed and we
1680
01:29:44.010 --> 01:29:45.430
weren't sure which one was.
1681
01:29:46.350 --> 01:29:49.970
It's so fucking crazy. Also, the irony of it being
1682
01:29:50.010 --> 01:29:52.340
a catering truck is, It's just like.
1683
01:29:52.220 --> 01:29:54.279
What's always in the movies too. They're like, how do
1684
01:29:54.300 --> 01:29:55.079
we get you out of here?
1685
01:29:55.119 --> 01:29:57.239
And then there's like a little catering cart and you're like, oh,
1686
01:29:57.300 --> 01:29:58.340
it's perfect.
1687
01:29:58.659 --> 01:30:00.850
Here's the question. Did he have to put on the
1688
01:30:00.890 --> 01:30:02.060
cater waiter outfit?
1689
01:30:03.109 --> 01:30:05.430
He had a disguise. He dressed as a bellhop.
1690
01:30:06.430 --> 01:30:08.310
Actually, here's what they did. They brought him in on
1691
01:30:08.390 --> 01:30:10.979
the big table and it had the little cloche on it.
1692
01:30:11.250 --> 01:30:13.189
And then they pulled it in. They got the table
1693
01:30:13.489 --> 01:30:15.630
to the safe location and then they lifted the cloche.
1694
01:30:15.949 --> 01:30:17.970
Are you okay now, Mr. President? And then put it
1695
01:30:18.010 --> 01:30:18.529
back down and then.
1696
01:30:18.989 --> 01:30:21.369
It's just such a screwball comedy. It's perfect.
1697
01:30:21.489 --> 01:30:23.770
Isn't it? It's very Clouseau.
1698
01:30:24.170 --> 01:30:27.970
I also love him saying, if I go, you go afterwards.
1699
01:30:28.130 --> 01:30:30.789
And it's like, that's not the case.
1700
01:30:30.869 --> 01:30:33.909
Actually, that was if they go, they go.
1701
01:30:34.510 --> 01:30:37.109
If I go, I go, you say.
1702
01:30:37.189 --> 01:30:40.250
Right. If I go, I go, and you don't go.
1703
01:30:41.069 --> 01:30:42.029
You go, bye-bye.
1704
01:30:42.789 --> 01:30:45.949
Yeah, you go, bye-bye. That's for sure. What else they got?
1705
01:30:46.449 --> 01:30:50.159
All right. John, whose weave is better, Trump or Fetterman?
1706
01:30:51.319 --> 01:30:57.149
Oh, whose weaves? Well, weave? Well, yeah, I was going
1707
01:30:57.170 --> 01:31:01.229
to say. Fetterman, no. I mean, Fetterman, I think, gave
1708
01:31:01.310 --> 01:31:05.869
up on whatever hairstyle. Trump, at least, is experimenting. That's
1709
01:31:05.930 --> 01:31:08.449
kind of what I dig about him. Like, with Trump,
1710
01:31:08.729 --> 01:31:10.810
you literally could imagine, like, where was he this morning?
1711
01:31:10.939 --> 01:31:13.399
And somebody would be like, I think the beauty parlor. Like,
1712
01:31:13.779 --> 01:31:16.600
he's– because he's got a hairdo now that's like when
1713
01:31:16.640 --> 01:31:19.819
my– You know, when I was younger, all the old
1714
01:31:19.880 --> 01:31:23.159
ladies would go to this guy, Joe. It was the
1715
01:31:23.199 --> 01:31:25.720
beauty parlor. And Joe would be at the beauty parlor
1716
01:31:25.979 --> 01:31:27.880
and he would take care of the ladies. And he's
1717
01:31:27.960 --> 01:31:31.329
got that, like, I imagine Trump sitting under that little
1718
01:31:31.409 --> 01:31:34.470
dome after getting his thing up and just coming out
1719
01:31:34.489 --> 01:31:39.750
and going like, oh my God, wait till I play bridge.
1720
01:31:41.899 --> 01:31:45.199
Trump is the master of the weave because he's in
1721
01:31:45.239 --> 01:31:48.819
control of it. Fetterman, unfortunately, I think, look, to be
1722
01:31:48.880 --> 01:31:51.859
fair to him, like he had a stroke. I do
1723
01:31:51.939 --> 01:31:55.550
think that creates processing issues. I don't think it's a
1724
01:31:56.170 --> 01:32:00.250
great environment for him in long form necessarily. I don't
1725
01:32:00.289 --> 01:32:01.930
want to lay all of it on that because I
1726
01:32:01.989 --> 01:32:03.729
don't think all of it should be laid on that.
1727
01:32:04.170 --> 01:32:11.640
But I definitely think he may have a more thoughtful
1728
01:32:11.689 --> 01:32:15.640
mode of communicating that we are not necessarily privy to.
1729
01:32:16.159 --> 01:32:19.010
If that would be, is that the nicest way to
1730
01:32:19.050 --> 01:32:19.390
say it?
1731
01:32:19.729 --> 01:32:21.229
I would say it's too generous.
1732
01:32:21.569 --> 01:32:27.390
I'm not suggesting that the opinions should not be criticized
1733
01:32:28.229 --> 01:32:33.229
and looked at with astonishment, because I do think they
1734
01:32:33.270 --> 01:32:36.529
are his real opinions. I just think, I don't know
1735
01:32:36.590 --> 01:32:40.510
if that was necessarily his best at defending them. That's all.
1736
01:32:41.090 --> 01:32:41.689
That's all I'm saying.
1737
01:32:41.710 --> 01:32:44.060
I haven't seen better, and I did look around quite
1738
01:32:44.109 --> 01:32:44.439
a bit.
1739
01:32:44.720 --> 01:32:44.960
So.
1740
01:32:47.029 --> 01:32:50.229
I haven't seen him articulate the point better than he did.
1741
01:32:50.250 --> 01:32:54.170
I actually think he's taking, I think Fetterman is taking
1742
01:32:54.350 --> 01:32:56.710
like some of Trump's playbook where it's like when he's
1743
01:32:56.750 --> 01:32:59.869
talking to some of the media, just like completely throwing
1744
01:32:59.930 --> 01:33:02.210
lobs back. Like when I think it was drop site,
1745
01:33:02.229 --> 01:33:04.840
like caught him in the hallway and was asking him
1746
01:33:04.850 --> 01:33:06.720
questions about Israel. And he was like, who do you
1747
01:33:06.760 --> 01:33:09.159
work for? Like that's not a real organization.
1748
01:33:09.840 --> 01:33:11.939
You know what? Yeah. I'm giving him too much credit.
1749
01:33:12.560 --> 01:33:14.220
I I'm probably, but I.
1750
01:33:14.300 --> 01:33:17.869
Think that's like a, He's, you know, copying Trump a
1751
01:33:17.890 --> 01:33:20.010
little bit. Like I see there's some tendencies there, but yeah.
1752
01:33:20.869 --> 01:33:24.270
I think it's because in the conversation, like I did
1753
01:33:24.310 --> 01:33:27.779
get to a place where I felt bad. I know that's,
1754
01:33:27.819 --> 01:33:33.199
he's a senator. There's no amount of having that, you know,
1755
01:33:33.340 --> 01:33:39.239
but having diminished ability, but having power not be diminished,
1756
01:33:39.590 --> 01:33:42.590
that's a scary place for people to be. But it's
1757
01:33:42.609 --> 01:33:46.260
hard not to, on a human level, Have a conversation
1758
01:33:46.300 --> 01:33:50.890
at that length with somebody in that situation where you
1759
01:33:50.949 --> 01:33:55.710
don't go like, oh, I, it's like, I have to not,
1760
01:33:56.010 --> 01:33:58.229
let me just not be. Yeah.
1761
01:33:58.970 --> 01:34:00.430
I think that you have to, yeah, I think it's
1762
01:34:00.449 --> 01:34:02.729
really good to like hold space for that kind of empathy.
1763
01:34:03.770 --> 01:34:06.189
Whoa, did you say hold space? I've never used, I've
1764
01:34:06.260 --> 01:34:08.420
never heard hold space used before.
1765
01:34:08.680 --> 01:34:13.149
In a non- Um, but I don't, I don't know
1766
01:34:13.170 --> 01:34:14.890
that it's warranted necessarily.
1767
01:34:15.029 --> 01:34:18.130
I agree. And, and the reason why it's not warranted
1768
01:34:18.590 --> 01:34:22.090
is the amount of power that the individual wields in
1769
01:34:22.130 --> 01:34:26.619
the same way for, uh, Mitch McConnell, where you can
1770
01:34:26.659 --> 01:34:31.079
go like, wow, that must suck to be infirmed to
1771
01:34:31.119 --> 01:34:35.319
the point where you literally can't be filmed saying you're okay.
1772
01:34:36.359 --> 01:34:40.520
And then also think to yourself, Fuck that guy for
1773
01:34:40.560 --> 01:34:42.539
still having that much power. 100%.
1774
01:34:42.539 --> 01:34:43.359
All right.
1775
01:34:43.899 --> 01:34:47.239
I feel better. Thank you for helping me work through this.
1776
01:34:47.859 --> 01:34:48.729
I was feeling guilty.
1777
01:34:49.289 --> 01:34:50.069
You shouldn't.
1778
01:34:50.329 --> 01:34:53.789
I can't think that I was feeling a bit guilty.
1779
01:34:53.829 --> 01:34:55.529
That's all. No. All right. What's final?
1780
01:34:55.850 --> 01:34:59.550
Resolved. Last one. John, please settle this for me and
1781
01:34:59.569 --> 01:34:59.890
my wife.
1782
01:35:00.170 --> 01:35:02.470
Done. I can do that. No problem.
1783
01:35:03.630 --> 01:35:06.729
McDonald's fries or Burger King onion rings?
1784
01:35:07.789 --> 01:35:08.449
McDonald's fries.
1785
01:35:08.829 --> 01:35:10.409
Yeah.
1786
01:35:11.130 --> 01:35:15.159
Why would anybody even... Yeah. Why would someone throw that
1787
01:35:15.460 --> 01:35:19.539
even into the... The Burger King onion ring is not...
1788
01:35:19.720 --> 01:35:21.859
I don't believe is in the same weight class. That's
1789
01:35:21.939 --> 01:35:30.510
like Manchester City or somebody, the Galaxy. It's not even.
1790
01:35:31.270 --> 01:35:33.510
they can do a friendly every now and again, but
1791
01:35:33.529 --> 01:35:34.689
they shouldn't be competing.
1792
01:35:34.810 --> 01:35:38.189
Thank you, Jillian. A friendly, they can, they can play.
1793
01:35:38.250 --> 01:35:40.529
And you know what? We'll even pretend that we're going
1794
01:35:40.550 --> 01:35:44.600
to referee it, but we all know what the, the, uh,
1795
01:35:44.699 --> 01:35:48.600
the real situation is now, uh, uh, the McDonald's fry.
1796
01:35:48.680 --> 01:35:54.359
I will say this, uh, my view on the size
1797
01:35:54.439 --> 01:36:00.729
of McDonald's fry has changed over the years. Uh, In
1798
01:36:00.770 --> 01:36:03.310
the old days, if you would supersize a fry or
1799
01:36:03.869 --> 01:36:08.329
get me the largest container of fries that they will
1800
01:36:08.409 --> 01:36:11.970
allow me to take out of the restaurant. Do you have,
1801
01:36:12.289 --> 01:36:15.920
I'm sorry, do you have bucket-o-fry? May I have a bucket?
1802
01:36:15.939 --> 01:36:20.020
How about this? I'll hold my arms like this and
1803
01:36:20.079 --> 01:36:24.460
you load it with fry and I will walk out with, oh,
1804
01:36:24.600 --> 01:36:26.840
you know what I'll have? The sack-o-fries.
1805
01:36:26.859 --> 01:36:27.159
Yeah.
1806
01:36:28.270 --> 01:36:33.050
Like a little Santa sack filled with fries. As I
1807
01:36:33.090 --> 01:36:37.869
have gotten older, I can actually feel the amount of
1808
01:36:37.989 --> 01:36:42.869
salt enter my body and slowly begin to change the
1809
01:36:42.930 --> 01:36:49.800
chemical makeup of what I'm experiencing, and I can't do it. Oh,
1810
01:36:49.939 --> 01:36:50.699
that sucks.
1811
01:36:50.760 --> 01:36:51.920
Just to know that that's coming.
1812
01:36:52.560 --> 01:36:52.850
Yeah.
1813
01:36:53.119 --> 01:36:55.890
Nothing hits like a medium French fry and a medium
1814
01:36:55.909 --> 01:36:56.689
Diet Coke though.
1815
01:36:56.890 --> 01:36:59.909
Oh, but now you say medium French fry. That is
1816
01:36:59.949 --> 01:37:04.130
a respectable amount of fry. But the large fry, three
1817
01:37:04.250 --> 01:37:07.409
quarters of the way through, I think to myself, I
1818
01:37:07.449 --> 01:37:09.149
believe I'm having a pulmonary embolism.
1819
01:37:10.880 --> 01:37:14.720
I'll eat a bucket of fries for the both of us, John.
1820
01:37:14.920 --> 01:37:16.420
And I miss it. You know what I've taken to
1821
01:37:16.479 --> 01:37:19.529
doing at times? You get the fries and you do this.
1822
01:37:20.479 --> 01:37:21.699
No.
1823
01:37:21.819 --> 01:37:22.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1824
01:37:22.720 --> 01:37:23.939
I get the fries and I do this.
1825
01:37:24.060 --> 01:37:28.880
Oh, no, no, no. I have to clear out whatever
1826
01:37:28.899 --> 01:37:30.470
they put on there. That's dark.
1827
01:37:30.819 --> 01:37:32.989
Wait, have you had a Burger King onion ring?
1828
01:37:34.109 --> 01:37:34.470
Oh, sure.
1829
01:37:35.029 --> 01:37:35.729
Okay.
1830
01:37:35.770 --> 01:37:38.789
Oh, listen. I've traveled. Is that what you're asking me?
1831
01:37:39.010 --> 01:37:40.789
Has he traveled the world? Of course he has.
1832
01:37:40.890 --> 01:37:43.500
Am I a bon vivant? Am I a sophisticate? Of
1833
01:37:43.560 --> 01:37:46.640
course I've had the– And by the way, I've even
1834
01:37:46.699 --> 01:37:50.619
had when they try shit like, let's do cheesy tots.
1835
01:37:51.140 --> 01:37:55.460
Like when they'll introduce new fried items or things like that.
1836
01:37:55.520 --> 01:37:56.340
I'll try them all.
1837
01:37:56.640 --> 01:37:57.279
Why not?
1838
01:37:57.399 --> 01:38:03.369
I'll try the Cinnabon with the little frosting in the
1839
01:38:03.430 --> 01:38:03.909
center of it.
1840
01:38:03.970 --> 01:38:04.670
Yeah, fuck yeah.
1841
01:38:04.949 --> 01:38:07.890
Fucking Taco Bell tried to throw out a chocolate empanada
1842
01:38:08.329 --> 01:38:08.989
for a little while.
1843
01:38:09.350 --> 01:38:10.989
Yeah, sort of like a Choco Taco.
1844
01:38:11.529 --> 01:38:12.109
Thank you, Jillian.
1845
01:38:12.670 --> 01:38:15.439
I always wondered who those advertisements worked on.
1846
01:38:15.859 --> 01:38:17.619
You're looking at him.
1847
01:38:17.640 --> 01:38:23.510
Me. I'll try them all. But I am always searching
1848
01:38:23.619 --> 01:38:27.630
for the perfection of, in my old days when I
1849
01:38:27.710 --> 01:38:33.899
ate bread meat, the McDonald's. cheeseburger, a large fry, Coke,
1850
01:38:34.779 --> 01:38:45.420
and an apple pie. That was the quintessential American lab-made,
1851
01:38:45.640 --> 01:38:49.020
I'm sure it was made in the same... Lab where
1852
01:38:49.039 --> 01:38:52.460
you made creepy crawlies, where you poured the stuff into
1853
01:38:52.500 --> 01:38:54.560
the thing and then you heated it up and out
1854
01:38:54.619 --> 01:38:57.140
came a worm. I'm sure it was the same lab.
1855
01:38:57.699 --> 01:39:03.520
The 60s and 70s were nothing if not monosodium glutamate
1856
01:39:03.550 --> 01:39:04.770
and whatever else they could throw in there.
1857
01:39:06.289 --> 01:39:07.189
They figured it out.
1858
01:39:07.869 --> 01:39:11.359
So good. Yeah. All right. Well, that's all for us.
1859
01:39:11.720 --> 01:39:14.579
And this is it. The show, we are done until,
1860
01:39:14.880 --> 01:39:16.539
do you know when the next one is? September?
1861
01:39:16.720 --> 01:39:16.920
Yes.
1862
01:39:16.939 --> 01:39:17.819
September 10th.
1863
01:39:17.979 --> 01:39:18.500
Thursday.
1864
01:39:18.539 --> 01:39:19.970
We'll be out on a Thursday that week.
1865
01:39:20.020 --> 01:39:21.439
Switching it up.
1866
01:39:21.560 --> 01:39:24.789
We're switching it up September 10th. To all the people
1867
01:39:24.829 --> 01:39:27.770
that have been listening throughout the year, thank you all
1868
01:39:27.789 --> 01:39:31.569
so much for doing so. We're excited to come back
1869
01:39:31.649 --> 01:39:39.239
in September and infuriate you even further. As always, we
1870
01:39:39.279 --> 01:39:42.819
could not do it without our exceptional team. And we
1871
01:39:42.840 --> 01:39:45.939
have added a new team member, I would like to say.
1872
01:39:46.689 --> 01:39:49.109
A new associate producer by the name of Rebecca Rotenberg.
1873
01:39:49.149 --> 01:39:52.550
She'll be joining us, doing a wonderful job. But our producer,
1874
01:39:52.590 --> 01:39:55.789
Brittany Mamedovic, our producer, Jillian Spear, our video editor and engineer,
1875
01:39:55.850 --> 01:40:00.930
Rob Vitolo, who made a headroom call today that I
1876
01:40:00.970 --> 01:40:02.770
thought was well worth it. I got a little lax
1877
01:40:04.140 --> 01:40:06.819
and I came in hot with a shit ton of headroom.
1878
01:40:07.880 --> 01:40:10.840
And Rob said, not on my watch, my friend, not
1879
01:40:10.859 --> 01:40:14.439
going to happen. Audio editor and engineer, Nicole Boyce, associate producer,
1880
01:40:14.479 --> 01:40:17.260
Rebecca Rodenberg, as we mentioned earlier, and our executive producers,
1881
01:40:17.279 --> 01:40:19.460
Chris McShane and Katie Gray. Thank you guys so much.
1882
01:40:19.539 --> 01:40:29.220
And we shall see you in September. The Weekly Show
1883
01:40:29.239 --> 01:40:32.479
with Jon Stewart is a Comedy Central podcast. It's produced
1884
01:40:32.500 --> 01:40:35.000
by Paramount Audio and Busboy Productions.
1885
01:40:47.630 --> 01:40:48.880
Paramount Podcasts