The "Learn, Burn, Return" Framework for High-Performing Leaders | Dr. Cindra Kamphoff

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Confidence is the feeling that actually comes and goes.
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It is a decision you get to decide in the moment or not.
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And it's a skill you can develop over time, which is incredible.
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Many times the action of confidence comes before the feeling of confidence.
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So acting in a confident way, the feeling's gonna follow.
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Hey Uncommon Leaders, welcome back.
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This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast.
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I'm your host, John Gallagher, and my guest today is a powerhouse in the world of high performance.
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She's a certified executive coach, a mental performance coach, and award-winning keynote speaker and author.
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She spent years working one-on-one with the Minnesota Vikings, coached the USA track and field Olympians on the ground in Tokyo, and consults for massive brands like Target and Verizon.
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She's the founder of the Mentally Strong Institute, host of the globally top-ranked high performance mindset podcast.
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Let's see if I can get myself on this podcast, and author of the books Beyond Grit and Beyond Grit for Business.
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Her upcoming book with Simon and Schuster is hitting shelves this September, The Confidence Habit, Seven Core Practices to Transform Self-Doubt to Self-Belief.
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Let's welcome Dr.
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Sindra Kampoff to the show.
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Sindra, welcome to the Uncommon Leader Podcast.
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How are you doing today?
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I'm doing awesome.
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Thank you so much, John, for having me here today.
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Can't wait to have a conversation with you.
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It's gonna be great.
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Look, I Minnesota.
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I mean, it's a place in my heart.
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I only spent one summer there.
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That was about two months.
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And then the rest is I just hear about the wintertime.
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You have like mosquito season up there.
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Are you in that season right now?
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No, it's so beautiful right now.
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This is yeah, I'm like on the lake, jet skiing, and like sweet to live in Minnesota.
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Yeah, it's the best.
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Love it.
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That's it.
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It really was.
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I spent that summer minute in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
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It was really cool.
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Anyway, that's not what we're here to talk about, the weather or where we live or anything else.
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It's great to have you on the show, and I'm looking forward to our conversation today to talk about your book that came out.
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Pretty exciting.
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And uh we are going to hit a lot of the keynotes there, but you don't get to, even though you're an author, the book comes out today, you still have to do the first question I ask all my first-time guests.
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And that's to tell me a story from your childhood that still impacts who you are today as a person or as a leader.
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Oh, what a great question to get started.
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So I grew up in Iowa in a really small town.
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And one of the things I loved doing was racing against the boys in my neighborhood.
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Andy and Ben Haugen, giving them a shout out.
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And uh I loved running.
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And my dad was really influential in my running career, um, would always de kind of uh de debrief every race afterwards around the dinner table the next day.
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And he would teach me about performance and sports psychology.
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So he was a person in sales, like a vice president of sales at the time, and he was learning all about the psychology of sales and then teaching me that uh to run faster.
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And my senior year, I ran the fastest mile in the state of Iowa.
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So it earned me a college scholarship to run cross country and track in college.
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Uh, but actually, John, there, that's where I really struggled with my own inner game and my mindset.
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Uh, I was, you know, everyone was just as fast as I was.
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And uh I didn't really know how to deal with that.
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And then I didn't necessarily have like my dad by my side.
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I mean, he sure he could be on the phone call, but he wasn't there like debriefing every race for me.
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And I, to be honest, really struggled with my mental health in college.
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I did not reach my potential, not even close.
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But what's interesting about that, John, is like that still shapes me today.
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You know, some 20 plus years later, is it 30?
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I don't know.
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It's it's a while ago.
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We'll say 20.
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But it's yeah, we'll say 20.
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We'll say 20.
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But it, you know, it shaped uh the book that just came out today called The Confidence Habit, because it's a really practical diet guide to grow confidence.
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And it's something I wish that I would have had when I was struggling with my confidence the most.
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So it absolutely shapes me still today, is probably the core at why I do what I do.
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Um and I think my life's purpose is to share common tools and practices that people can use to get unstuck and uh be their best more often.
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So good.
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You know, people get tired of hearing me talk about this when I coach others or when consulting.
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Uh, but you just you just told the perfect story of this because Rory Vaden has said it best.
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Yeah.
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Most powerfully positioned to help the person that we once were.
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And that's why I asked that question at the start, because generally, you know, those questions that come out are really framing people's lives, either successes or failures and challenges as a leader as well, but also how they help others through that.
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So I'm excited about that.
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And again, to write this book on confidence, that confidence habit is going to be something that's gonna be a great conversation for us.
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Let's before we talk about the book, let's talk about the study, though, that you had the white paper that you had done as well, the 2025 research study on confidence, two pieces of data that I found fascinating in it.
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It found that 33% of people quit jobs that drain their confidence.
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And this was the second one that even 63% of Americans would take less pay to work for a leader who builds their confidence.
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Okay.
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Exactly.
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Those are two crazy numbers.
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You tell me two things.
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One is what was the number that stood out to you the most?
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And secondly, maybe it's the first thing, what is confidence?
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Okay.
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For those that you were going through it.
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Great question.
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So in the confidence habit, I talk about how confidence is for things.
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It's a feeling that actually comes and goes.
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We can't, we should not overthink that feeling.
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And when we're really pushing ourselves to try new things, you're going to feel anxious.
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You're going to maybe feel fear.
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That doesn't mean that you lack confidence.
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And so we over put too much emphasis on this feeling that can come and go.
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But it is a decision.
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You get to decide in the moment to be confident or not.
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And it's a skill.
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That's number three.
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It's not something you're born with, but you can develop over time, which is incredible.
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And it's a belief in self.
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And so think about those four things like on a continuum with the feeling is not very stable that can come and go.
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I mean, I can think of times where I felt a lack of confidence as a feeling, right?
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I felt a little nervous.
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I, you know, then I maybe listened to that self-talk.
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And so we have to make sure, you know, many times the action of confidence comes before the feeling of confidence.
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So acting in a confident way, the feeling's gonna follow.
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So those are four things that confidence is.
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You know, the reason we did this nationwide study on confidence, because as a coach, so I have a company called the Mentally Strong Institute.
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And so we have 12 coaches.
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Um there are executive coaches and high performance like coaches for athletes, like mental performance coaches.
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And the number one reason people come to us and come to me is because they want more confidence.
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And we're talking about professional athletes, high-level executives, you know, vice presidents of companies, owners of company companies, entrepreneurs.
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And you might think all those professional athletes that you see on TV, they never lack confidence.
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But that's actually not true.
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They're just human like you and I, and we know that confidence can fluctuate.
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And as I've talked to more people about this idea, you know, we we go through these life transitions where confidence can be um can waver a lot.
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Let's say um you get a new job, you get tough feedback, uh, you're you're retiring from your sport or your profession and you're looking for what's next.
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Uh, you know, and so these there's all these moments in our lives where confidence can be really fragile.
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And that's why we need to make confidence a habit.
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And it is a habit.
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It's a habit that we can continue to choose every day.
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And when you asked me what stat in the study was most surprising.
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So we surveyed people all over the United States in all different generations and different uh areas.
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Can I give you three stats?
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You can.
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Okay, number one, one in two Gen Zers, a Gen Zer is defined as ages 18 to 29 in our study.
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And one in two consistently or frequently feel like they're not enough.
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This is also the case with young millennials, 30 to 35.
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So this book, this mission, John, is like it's way bigger than Sindra Kampoff.
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It's way bigger than a book, it's like a movement to help the US people, young people, be more confident.
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And, you know, I think there was a football coach I worked with the other day that said everyone wants confidence, but no one knows how to grow it.
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And that's what I feel like my mission on this earth is to help people like learn tools to grow confidence.
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So that's number one that was really shocking, and maybe it's really shocking because I have two Gen Z of two boys, uh 18, 19, or oh, I got that wrong, 17 and 19.
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So I'm deeply concerned about them and their friends.
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Number two, the stat that, well, it didn't really surprise me, but is also part of my mission is we found women still scored lower on all markers of confidence compared to men.
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So women need this message today, even more than men, right?
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And men, you can help elevate women like John, you're doing on this podcast, you know.
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I and here's actually then I guess the the second shocking thing we found.
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We found that more confidence is connected to more revenue in companies.
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We found confidence is connected to better culture and more productivity.
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So, you know, I've seen it on sports teams and like leadership teams I've worked with, but what's cool now is like there's data to support like not only why leaders need to grow their own confidence, but why they have to grow the confidence of those people that they lead.
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And we found some really fascinating things about what leaders can do to kill confidence and grow confidence.
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And I'll read you a few of these things.
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Things that leaders can do to make confidence or accelerate, accelerate confidence are delegating tasks to empower people, embracing failure.
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That is so important, very hard for us to do as humans.
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Model authenticity and not having all the answers.
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So there's a couple of things that leaders you can do as a leader.
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Things that leaders do to kill confidence that we should avoid.
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And again, sometimes we kill these, we do these things, I do these things.
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I don't even, I don't try, right?
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But we can micromanage or provide a lack of direction or support, or we fail to accomplish recognize achievements, or we create a culture of fear where you can't take risks or share concerns.
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So the cool thing is you can actually go find our study at confidence tools.com where you can learn more about it and download the the white paper.
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There's much more than in this report that you and I aren't even talking about right now.
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Yeah, right.
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You know, yeah, no, they looked incredibly uh detailed that that puts a lot of information out there.
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And to hear that, boy, to hear that that one and two, I've got the millennials, I've got two millennial sons.
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Yeah, I would agree.
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And while I'm not necessarily in this, you know, you look did did your study talk about COVID at all and the impact of that, or did they talk about what did it did it sense there was an impact on confidence with COVID?
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Yeah, you know, the number one reason people said that we are in this confidence crisis in America today is it's actually social media.
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So an average Gen Zer spends six and a half hours on their phone every day.
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You know, and you know, when you're on social media and I'm on it, like it's so easy to compare and think you're not enough.
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But second reason is COVID and the pandemic pandemic.
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And I think about my two boys, you know, my son was the first person who got COVID.
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I it felt for sure in our community, but it felt like in our town, you know, I felt like we had like this X on our door, which we didn't, but you know, because we had all these misperceptions of it.
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Or I don't, I don't know if it's misperception, John.
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I don't know.
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But but my point is, you know, there's just been a lot of uncertainty for young people, and they're in the age of you know, phone usage, and it's really easy to compare someone else's highlight reel to your beginning, or you know, you see all your friends uh at this event and you're not you're not invited.
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And so it's easy to give into the lies that our brain tells us that creates a lack of confidence.
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So good.
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So I mean, it it makes so much sense in terms of understanding that with regards to that comparison and things like that, and the ease or uh of access to those types of comparisons that exist.
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You know, every book has kind of its own catalyst story of how it was born.
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Is there a story that you know ultimately you have that said, I gotta write this book, the confidence happened?
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Was it a client breakthrough?
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Was it was there was there anything that that stood out?
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Well, the opening chapter of the book is actually me telling a really difficult story.
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So several years ago, I did a TEDx talk.
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And it, you know, like as a speaker, I'm a keynote speaker, I do over 125 speaking engagements a year.
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So that basically means like I'm speaking like every three days.
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And you know, the thing is, is like I speak from my heart.
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You know, I I don't, I, you know, I might have some slides or whatever, but I don't have it scripted word for word.
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And that's actually how you connect with people.
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So I did this TEDx talk and I wanted to crush it, John.
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I wanted to go viral, like a Brene Brown TEDx talk or a Simon Sinek talk.
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So I hired a short talk expert, somebody who was gonna like help me kind of nail this talk down.
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I had it scripted word for word for word for word.
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And guess what?
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My family got there an hour and a half early.
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My parents were sitting in the front, my kids were right there, my sister was there, everyone was there to listen to Sindra camp off.
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And you won't believe it, but I froze on stage.
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You can't even make this up.
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I forgot what I was gonna say.
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And you know, it's like, yeah, as a speaker, like this is your pinnacle.
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This is like, this is like the moment.
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And you and you know, and it was so cute because someone in the front was like, You got this, go girl, or something.
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And then that helped me get back on track, but it's something I've never done before.
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And you know, I wasn't afterwards, I wasn't too worried about it because I knew that either they they could actually edit that out.
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And so I was like, okay, no big deal.
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But then, John, all my family was like, Are you okay?
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My family, it was my family and my my family's reaction that was like, I completely bombed this.
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And instead of like everyone like being so proud of me, it was actually really shameful.
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And then I showed it to the the short talk expert, and she was like, This is the worst TEDx TEDx talk I've ever heard.
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You know, like this is bad lighting, all the stuff, like someone who I thought was supposed to be there to build my confidence.
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And so guess what?
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I almost didn't let Ted put it on.
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I did, but I didn't promote it, I didn't tell anybody about it for two years.
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And so I was at a speakers conference, and honestly, it was a mastermind speakers conference, and I was really struggling with this.
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Like I felt like it had impacted my confidence as a speaker, like honestly, a little bit of my self-worth.
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And you know, it was it was really shameful.
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And I I had my friend John watch the talk in his in his like hotel room, and he was listening to it, he's getting ready.
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And then my friend Jason was rooming with him.
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And Jason the next morning comes up to me and was like, Oh my gosh, Sindra, you've grown so much as a speaker.
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I can't even believe this video I heard John listening to, and I started crying.
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And I was like, Are you kidding me?
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You know, I have been like just so embarrassed of this talk.
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And then to hear like a friend say, This was incredible.
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And so this that's actually how I start the book.
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And you might be like, Well gosh, she's writing a book about confidence.
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But the reason I start the book that way is because I'm human just like you are, right?
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And I can let other people's opinions impact what I believe about myself.
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And also I didn't show up authentically in that space.
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I tried to be somebody that I wasn't.
00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:11.840
I tried to be this person who said it word for word for word, and that's that's not how who I am.
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:20.879
So I can't wait for like my next opportunity to do a TEDx talk on confidence, and maybe it'll literally be called like how I froze on the TEDx stage.
00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:22.480
I I think you're probably right.
00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:25.600
I think you're there's some, there's something like rewind or whatever it is.
00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:28.320
I mean, there's something to it that we could figure out.
00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:33.919
But you know, as I look, I didn't get a chance to preview the book uh that's coming out today.
00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:40.799
And that's one of the things if I'm preparing for an interview like this, I'm looking for stories, and I didn't know that one.
00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:41.120
Yeah.
00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:48.399
And my favorite part of the books generally in preparing are the forwards, the introductions, and the acknowledgments at the end.
00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:53.120
Like I find the I find the sizzle in those stories, and that's a great story.
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:54.240
I appreciate you sharing that.
00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:58.639
One is the hard one that you share just to uh talk about it, right?
00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:03.679
And and yeah, that somebody's gonna go out on the TEDx website and like find they're gonna go, they're gonna read it.
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:06.000
Like, let me go find how bad this really was and see what that is.
00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:09.599
Yeah, and then you can see, you know, and honestly, it's not that bad.
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:17.440
So, you know, I think that's also important for me to say out loud because I was creating that it was so bad in my head.
00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:19.519
You know, it's actually a really good TED talk.
00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:23.119
It did not go viral, but you know, it it is a good TED talk.
00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:35.440
And so, but I I think I look back in that and I like I let someone else's opinion determine what I was gonna do with my career, you know, and uh and overthought that a lot.
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:42.000
And so, you know, I I've since learned just the importance of like, hey, my opinion matters the most.
00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:47.119
And you know, you I know you ask your listeners, like, what would I put on a billboard?
00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:53.039
And this is what I would put on a billboard, that confidence many times is borrowed before it's built.
00:17:53.200 --> 00:18:00.799
And kind of what I mean by that is like, I think for me, my dad, I think you know, my high school career, he I borrowed confidence from him.
00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:02.559
He was like, You can do this.
00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:03.839
You know, I believe in you.
00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:06.240
You know, I know you can win the state championship.
00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:10.160
You know, he he told me he was gonna buy me a new car if I won state.
00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:14.079
But then once I won state, he forgot that he was gonna buy me a new car.
00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:17.200
So I actually had this mantra when I was in high school called State Champ New Car.
00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:20.079
That's actually got me out of bed every morning.
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:21.200
Oh, then he forgot.
00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:23.279
Inspiration, absolutely.
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:24.720
Hey, Uncle Leaders.
00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:26.480
Hope you're enjoying the episode so far.
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:30.000
I believe in doing business with people you like and trust and not just a company name.
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:34.240
That's why a strong personal brand is essential, whether you're an entrepreneur or a leader within a company.
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:47.359
Brand builders group, the folks who have been helping me refine my own personal brand are offering a free consultation call with one of their expert brand strategists to help you identify your uniqueness, craft a compelling story, and develop a step-by-step plan to elevate your impact.
00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:57.759
So head on over to CoachJohnGallagher.com slash BBG, as in brand builders group to schedule your free call and take the first step toward building a personal brand that gets you noticed for all the right reasons.
00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.279
That's coachjohngallagher.com slash BBG.
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:02.880
Now, let's get back to the episode.
00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:03.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:13.440
And so, you know, but I also think like in my case, it's like I borrowed confidence from John and Jason who watched that TED talk and were like, Sindra, that was great, right?
00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:19.279
But then I I, you know, these people in your lives, you know, that I maybe shouldn't have borrowed their confidence.
00:19:19.359 --> 00:19:22.960
Like I listened to their like I listened to their criticism too harsh.
00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:26.079
And think about confidence like we need an armor around us.
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:27.599
You need a confidence armor.
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:31.440
You need uh a con like let like sort of like a night, right?
00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:36.160
Like in the media media medieval days when it's like things bounce off that armor.
00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:37.119
Think about that.
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:42.880
When you hear criticism and negativity, and you know, many of that times isn't completely accurate.
00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:51.519
That short talk expert who I hired as my coach, like I actually disagree with her now, you know, but I let her negatively impact my confidence.
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:54.559
So we have to be careful what we say to other people.
00:19:54.640 --> 00:20:00.720
And when you think about how confidence can be borrowed before it's built, like you can be the person to instill confidence in others.
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:05.359
And honestly, just like uh a positive comment can go a really long way.
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:05.680
Sure.
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:10.559
Like, you know, build be a builder instead of a person that tears others down.
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:11.599
I love that.
00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:16.799
And as a, you know, as you talked about again, you are a coach to elite athletes.
00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:24.480
And the thought that went through my mind about kind of the borrowing the confidence was uh the walk-up song in baseball to get your confidence won.
00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:27.519
So what what would what's your walk-up song on stage now?
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:28.480
What are you walking into?
00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:33.920
Well, my you know, I was uh for many years, I I trained for marathons.
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:41.599
And so I would uh and in winter in the winter, it can be really hard in Minnesota, and so you have to Yeah, it's a run, yeah.
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:44.640
I mean, what the snow up to run up to your waist, yeah.
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:45.519
Exactly.
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:50.240
And so sometimes I would run my 20 mile runs on the treadmill, believe it or not.
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:54.240
I know, but you know, it's better than especially the ones you had to do pacing on.
00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:57.359
And so I would listen to like the firework song by Katie Perry.
00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:01.119
So that's my walk-up song, like you're a firework, you know.
00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:06.880
I'm I'm not embarrassed to say that that was on my first 5k playlist.
00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:07.680
Firework.
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:14.400
But it's on my first the first song that popped on I had a playlist that would have been the length of the race, and that was the first song that was on it.
00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:22.559
So yeah, maybe I should have listened to that before you know when I have my next TEDx talk TEDx talk, I'm gonna listen to that before I go on stage.
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:23.359
Before you walk up.
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:26.160
That's that borrowing the confidence that exists, but borrowing your own.
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:28.400
That's usually one of the things I asked at the end.
00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:29.039
So I love that.
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:33.920
Look, and then the introductions and the acknowledgments and all those things are really cool with regards to stories.
00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:40.319
In between that, the bookends are the the frameworks and the way you teach people about confidence and about the habits.
00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:48.319
So I want to talk about a couple of those, realizing, folks, you need to go out and get the book now, okay, because it's out and you need to learn these habits.
00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:59.759
When I got a chance to hear Sindra talk back in November at the Book Thinkers Conference, I knew I wanted to bring her on to the Uncomment Leader podcast to share that message with the listeners who didn't get to hear it then because of the conversation.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.799
Confidence that you exude because of the stories that you told within that and because of the frameworks that you used.
00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:12.720
One of them you used up on stage then is in your book is the learn, burn, and return framework for confidence.
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:13.599
Tell me about that one.
00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:14.559
How did that one come about?
00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:15.519
A great question.
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:24.400
So it came about, uh, and so that by the way, the the confidence habit book is around these seven core practices to transform self-doubt to self-belief.
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:26.880
And one of them is called Clear Your Past.
00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:28.480
And uh that's number two.
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:33.359
And so, you know, failure is just a part of growth if you're trying new things and you're taking risks.
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:39.920
And so the learn burn return tool can help you process mistakes, show yourself some compassion and move forward with confidence.
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:43.519
And again, think about something like confidence is something that you have to protect.
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:49.119
And uh it came about in my work with professional athletes and football teams specifically.
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:52.319
So uh I work with a lot of football teams during the fall.
00:22:52.559 --> 00:23:03.599
And one of the players that I've spent a lot of time with, and he he he wrote about this, or this was written about in ESPN, so I'm not, you know, over disclosing anything that I should have kept confidential.
00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:12.880
But his name is Adam Thielen, and Adam played for the Minnesota Vikings and then played for the Carolina Panthers, and he lasted in the NFL 13 years, which is pretty incredible.
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:14.799
He's an undrafted free agent.
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:18.000
The average NFL career is only 2.9 years.
00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:22.960
And actually, John, NFL doesn't stand for National Football League, it stands for not for long.
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:24.640
No doubt, yes.
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:25.200
No doubt.
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:26.000
Very great.
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:26.400
No doubt.
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:27.599
Another framework, yeah.
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:28.319
Yeah, exactly.
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:34.079
So, anyway, he used this tool in a playoff game where the Vikings were playing the Saints in a playoff game.
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:37.039
Um, you know, obviously, you keep winning, you go to the Super Bowl.
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:41.519
And Adam made a huge mistake at the beginning of the game and he fumbled the ball.
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:46.799
And when he went over to the sidelines and he put his fist kind of like by his cheek, like this, and he pushed it down.
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:47.359
Okay.
00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:55.279
Now no one knew exactly what he was doing, besides I knew it, because I had taught him learn burn return as a college athlete.
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.359
And so he played at Minnesota State, where I still work with their football team there.
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:06.640
And so he makes this action in the next drive, he's right back in that fast and he catches this 43-yard catch over his head.
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:08.079
Absolutely gorgeous, right?
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:13.759
And because he had this kind of next play, that fast mentality, he catches this 43-yard catch, right?
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:17.839
And he sets the Vikings up to win the touch, win the game with a touchdown.
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:25.200
So afterwards, this uh ESPN reporter named Courtney went up to Adam and said, Adam, you know, there's so much pressure in wide receivers during a playoff game.
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:27.279
What did you do to move on so quickly?
00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:30.079
And she said, What was this weird action you made?
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:32.480
And now I'm a little embarrassed to tell you what he said.
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:33.519
Would you like to know?
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:34.640
Of course I want to know.
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:35.200
Are you kidding?
00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:35.920
I have to know.
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:36.559
Of course.
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:39.599
So he said, Well, I was pretending to flush a toilet.
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:41.440
So this action was flushing it.
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:49.119
And so, anyway, next day it's headlining ESPN and it says, like, mental coach top Vikings Adam Thielen to flush away his mistakes.
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:51.920
And I'm like, really, that's how I get a headline in ESPN?
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:54.559
Flushing a toilet, you know, like of all things.
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:56.799
But I was teaching him learn, burn, return.
00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:59.839
So you need to do all three steps to move on quickly.
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:06.319
And the great, great part is you can strengthen your brain with a new neur new neural pathways, right?
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:14.960
And in our study, John, we found 75% of working Americans struggle with a harsh inner critic and have difficulty letting go of mistakes.
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:24.079
And honestly, when I ask my audiences, 75%, when I ask my audiences, like, raise your hand if you're an overthinker, 90% of the people raise their hand.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:27.759
And the other 10% are just overthinking that they should raise their hand.
00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:29.920
Yeah, or they're overthinking a lot of that.
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:30.720
They're, I don't know.
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:32.079
They're like, am I an overthinker?
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:38.480
And so, like, I find like most high achievers are overthinkers because they want to really do their best and be their best.
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:45.200
And so you can use learn, burn, return anytime you're overthinking, anytime you're ruminating, you know, you're sitting there.
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:51.119
I mean, geez, I wish I would have used learn, burn, return on that TEDx TEDx stage afterwards, right?
00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:55.200
But when things are really important to you, it's more difficult to let it go.
00:25:55.359 --> 00:25:58.960
And that's when it's really important to move on more quickly.
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:03.440
And so the learn just means asking yourself, what would you do differently next time?
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:05.440
Trying to think objectively about it.
00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:07.839
Then after you take that lesson, right?
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:13.920
So I think my lessons in that TED talk were like, okay, speak from your heart, not your head, Sindra.
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:15.680
You know, like write an outline.
00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:17.119
You don't have to have it word for word.
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:19.920
That's not the, that's not the TEDx talks you love anyway.
00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:22.880
It's like the ones that people are just in their heart, right?
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:24.160
That's what I learned.
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:26.960
I learned that next time I'm gonna do it differently.
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:30.240
And then burn means you choose the same phrase or action.
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:35.279
And you want to choose the same phrase or action every time because that's what allows you to move on more quickly.
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:38.559
So Adam's, of course, is flush it with this action.
00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:41.279
Mine is how fast with a snap.
00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:46.160
I work with this um hospital administrator who loves golf, and his is swing easy.
00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:53.759
So he just says swing easy and like he's walking around the hospital, he feels really tight, swing easy, just allows him to take a breath and get back to the present.
00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:54.240
Okay.
00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:58.000
So you want to choose the same one, and then the return means you build yourself back up.
00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:01.440
You say things like, you know, this is my passion, this is my purpose.
00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:07.359
I'm an incredible speaker that, you know, has done this 130 times a year, right?
00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:11.359
Like, and so what happens is most people get stuck in the learn.
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:12.960
They learn, learn, learn, learn, learn.
00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:17.599
They don't intentionally burn, and then they don't return, they don't build their confidence back up.
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:21.519
And I was thinking about that movie Inside Out 2.
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:22.240
Have you seen it?
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:23.039
It's like this character.
00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:23.920
I've not seen two.
00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:25.359
No, I've seen I saw the first one.
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:25.599
Yeah.
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:27.200
Okay, it's it's beautiful.
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:31.759
And it's all about this hockey player who lives actually in Minnesota, which is pretty cool.
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:40.160
But this hockey player, like her emotions are hijacking her, and her emotions are in charge of what gets moved to long-term and short-term memory.
00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:46.000
And so we don't we want to make sure our emotions don't decide what's in our long-term and short-term memory.
00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:52.720
And so the more quickly you can move on, honestly, like having a long-term memory for your successes is key.
00:27:52.880 --> 00:28:01.119
And then moving on quickly, having a short-term memory of your failures, mistakes actually protects your confidence, allows you to let go of the past.
00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:06.880
And think about, you know, every you, everyone who's listening, what do you need to let go of that you know isn't serving you?
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:10.319
You know, and it's it's the meaning we create around the stories in our lives.
00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:16.079
It's actually not the stories that create this lack of confidence, it's the meaning we make around it.
00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:16.799
Really cool.
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:33.839
Well, I mean, I know I I I told Cinder beforehand before we hit the record button, I said I borrowed that one myself, uh, not only in uh the flush, I remember the Adam Thielen story when I heard you speak, but also, you know, just that that stuck with me uh in in a book that I've written recently that uh folks can uh deal with later on.
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:36.240
But I'm I love the framework that you talk about.
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:38.799
It's very simple, and you'd love to talk about those.
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:41.839
Another, we're gonna talk about one more practice in terms of time and things like that.
00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:45.920
But one that you talked about is one of the seven practices is capture your wins.
00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:48.880
So what do you mean by capture your wins?
00:28:49.039 --> 00:29:00.799
Um what I mean is that, you know, one of the best ways to grow your self-efficacy, which is like a situation-specific confidence, is to look back at your progress.
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:07.599
And many times we measure our success based on where we want to go, not where we've come.
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:13.119
And so I have a really personal story around capture your wins that I'd love to tell you about.
00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:18.880
And so, you know, when you write a book, you write it, and then it takes a while, you pitch it to publishers.
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:26.240
And then it, you know, I mean, I think I started writing this book like, I don't know, three years ago, two and a half years ago, something like that.
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:38.079
And uh, my dad was in the ICU for 51 days, and he was in the ICU in Omaha, Nebraska, which is about a four and a half drive for an hour, four and a half hours for me.
00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:44.240
It was actually really difficult because I just told you like how much my dad was just a central part of who I am.
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:50.559
I'm an entrepreneur because of him, and he just has been my biggest cheerleader all throughout my life, just really proud.
00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:53.759
And so the first two weeks was very, very difficult.
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:57.440
It was like uh nurses would tell us one thing, doctors would tell us another thing.
00:29:57.519 --> 00:30:01.759
It was just like really hard to, I don't know, even understand, even have hope.
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:05.200
And uh two weeks in, I was like, I am losing it.
00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:08.079
And so I put a sticky note on the wall.
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:12.559
And every day I put a new sticky note on the wall that was a win for that day.
00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:20.720
And then my sisters made this little, you know, went to the dollar store and got this little like trifold wall and we called it our win wall.
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:23.359
And every day we put something on the wall.
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:28.880
And one day was like he got a pillow, like literally it was 17 days in before he had a pillow.
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:31.440
You know, he just was like um on total life support.
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:35.359
Uh one day was he got his ECMO out, which was the life support in his heart.
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:37.039
Another day was, hey, Dr.
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:41.759
G said that you can't, you can't um stop that fight in Hank, you know?
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:49.119
And what happened was that the nurses and doctors said our our room felt very different because we were celebrating the wins.
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:55.519
And I think it gave my dad hope that it was uh, you know, something he could see progress and helped all of us.
00:30:55.680 --> 00:31:01.119
And so they were like, you need to bring wind walls into organizations and you need to do something with this.
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:06.559
And what's wild, John, is uh it wasn't until like, I don't know, like sometime.
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:11.599
So he he ended up passing away on April 29, which was very, very difficult.
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:20.640
But also one of the reasons I'm telling you the story is to live his legacy because he was just this optimist that uh always was looking for the bright side.
00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:27.519
And uh we started a nonprofit called Hank's Hope to bring windwalls into hospitals and organizations.
00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:37.119
And it wasn't until like June that I was sitting at my desk and I was like, oh my gosh, like uh, I don't know, sometimes when your work is so close to you, you kind of forget it.
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:40.880
And I was like, practice five is capture your wins.
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:46.720
So I was practicing the book, I was practicing the practices when I was really struggling with confidence.
00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:51.279
And so one cool thing is like we decided to do a win wall in our family.
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:54.799
And each one of our family members puts a win on there.
00:31:54.880 --> 00:32:01.839
And the other day, uh, you know, again, I have two teenage boys, so they don't always like, you know, share their wins verbally.
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:02.480
Right.
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:04.799
And I loved what my son wrote.
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:09.839
He said, like, I loved playing golf with dad, my dad today, or like my husband, uh, Dan.
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:12.400
And what was great is that I beat him, you know?
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:19.200
And so it's actually just really cool to see, like, then now that's that special memory that they can keep seeing on the wall.
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:24.559
And he wouldn't have maybe said that to my husband, you know, but just like having on the wall.
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:29.599
And so I'm gonna encourage everyone, you know, this doesn't have to be very expensive.
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:39.440
You can go to the dollar store or you can go to Hobby Lobby, get one of those trifold wind walls, or maybe a poster board, and start putting your wins on the wall.
00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:46.079
And in the book, I actually tell the story about um hyptathlete who I worked with at the Olympics.
00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:47.599
Her name is Kendall Williams.
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:48.720
And she did something similar.
00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:54.160
She didn't have a trifold, but she just had a dry, like a poster board she put in her kitchen.
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:56.319
And I started working with her during COVID.
00:32:56.400 --> 00:33:01.920
And if you remember, all of the sports stuff was like canceled for like, I don't know, six months or whatever.
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:10.880
And so if we people who were training for the Olympics, it was really hard because the Olympics got pushed back a year and no one knew actually if the Olympics were gonna happen or whatever.
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:12.799
So it was really hard to keep training.
00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:25.920
And so she ended up putting like just these wins on her wall that was like, hey, I PR'd in the long jump today, or I had a great, you know, hurdle event today in practice, or you know, I remained mentally strong.
00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:31.519
And when she started questioning herself, this allowed her to like we called it her confidence bank.
00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:34.160
You know, it's a little bit different than a wind wall, but kind of the same idea.
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:39.119
It's this confidence bank to like help her, you know, see the progress and building up an account.
00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:44.400
You know, yeah, we can get so caught up in how far we have to go that we we don't celebrate how far we've come.
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:46.000
That love that story.
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:47.359
Thank you for sharing that on the windwall.
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:48.160
I think it's a great idea.
00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:50.400
And I love sticky notes anyway, in terms of how you use things.
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:51.680
So it can be pretty cool.
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:56.000
The uh book is out today as we release this podcast.
00:33:56.160 --> 00:34:01.359
One year from now, it's gonna be sitting on folks' shelves like the ones sitting behind me right now.
00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:07.119
When they see the binder of that book, one year from now, Cinder, after they've read it, what do you want them to feel?
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:09.599
And what do you want them to do when they when they see that book?
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:12.000
That is such an awesome question, John.
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:15.280
I want them to feel like belief in themselves.
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:18.960
I want them to feel like they matter and that they're enough.
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:23.760
And underlying everyone's negativity is they're they they don't feel like they're enough.
00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:28.000
And so I want them to look at the book and say, like, I am enough just the way that I am.
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:38.000
And I want them to see it, and I want them to realize they're here on this earth for a reason and their gifts and their purpose is unique.
00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:44.880
Like no one else has the same mix of experiences and gifts and dreams as they do, as people who are listening.
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:46.400
That's how I want them to feel.
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:52.480
Like they have a unique purpose in this world and they need to shine their gifts and shine their light.
00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:58.559
I want people intellectually to know when they see it, to know, okay, this is my toolkit.
00:34:58.719 --> 00:35:04.960
This is like how I can grow confidence and I gotta keep on resetting that you're gonna experience highs and lows.
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:08.639
You're gonna experience times where you gotta, you gotta learn burn return.
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:14.400
You gotta use the truth meter, you gotta take out that wind wall, you know, you gotta set a gallery of goals.
00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:17.679
I'm just thinking of like the other types of tools that are in the book.
00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:25.599
You know, you need a dream team of confidence, a cheerleader, uh, a mentor, a coach, a uh a best friend, a challenger.
00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:27.440
You need all those people in your life.
00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:37.679
And I want them to look at that and say, like, okay, I gotta keep, I gotta keep resetting, I gotta keep growing my confidence because it's something that is one of the strongest predictors of happiness and performance.
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:39.280
Well, love that.
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:40.000
So good.
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:45.679
Well, if it's gonna be there in a year, it's gotta be there on day one or or up there pretty soon.
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:48.239
Where do you want where do you want them to go and get the book, Sandra?
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:52.559
You can go anywhere that books are sold, Amazon, Barnes and Noble.
00:35:52.719 --> 00:36:00.719
I'd love for you to go over to confidencetools.com, which is really cool because we have over$500 of bonuses over there.
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:04.559
So you can buy the book anywhere and then just put in your order receipt over there.
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:08.079
And you get uh you get a workbook that goes with it.
00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:18.559
You get a study guide, you get um this mental performance summit we hosted virtually, you get a mentally strong comment conference uh that we hosted virtually.
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:24.000
And so you get all these various bonuses over there to help you like really make confidence a habit.
00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:26.800
So I'd love for you to check it out, confidence tools.com.
00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:27.440
So good.
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:34.559
Sindra, I'm so glad we had a chance finally to uh get together and have this conversation, get get you on to the uh Uncommon Leader podcast.
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:42.239
I wish you the best in the book and the book launch, and I expect it to uh be hitting that uh bestseller list that you're looking looking for.
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:44.320
Uh I have confidence uh that's nice.
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:45.119
I have confidence too.
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:46.000
That's gonna happen.
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:46.559
Yep.
00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:48.239
Well, we let's stay in touch, okay?
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:49.039
All right, awesome.
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:50.719
John, that was an amazing interview.
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:52.000
What great questions.
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:53.039
Question for you.
00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:54.719
How can people find your book?
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:57.280
Because you mentioned it and learn, burn, return is in it.
00:36:57.360 --> 00:36:58.880
So I've got to return the favor for you.
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:08.719
I read there did mention learn burn return in my book, and I'm going to send them to my website uh when folks are out there, coachjongallagher.com, and it'll be on Amazon as well.
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:11.119
So I'm going the self-publish route for the first one.
00:37:11.199 --> 00:37:16.239
You know, you got to write the first one to get to the 90th one, like this guy, John Maxwell, did at some point.
00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:16.719
Amazing.
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:19.679
At least you got to write one to get to 90.
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:22.320
So yeah, I'll send folks out to Amazon to make that happen.
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:23.519
Thank you for calling that out.
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:24.400
Okay, thank you, John.
00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:25.199
Thanks for having me on.
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:25.760
That was so fun.
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:26.800
Oh, you're welcome, Cinder.
00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:30.400
Yeah, I hope you all enjoyed that conversation as much as I did with Cinder Kampoff.
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:30.960
That was awesome.
00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:32.000
The confidence habit.
00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:42.079
Be sure to get out there and get a copy of that book and see what uh you can do to build your confidence, use some of those frameworks to grow in those areas that you know you need to.
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:45.199
The critic uh in you is not giving you the right answer.
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:50.880
But these habits, these processes that you can take a look at to build that confidence is something that you really need to do.
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:56.719
If you know someone who you heard, who you thought about when you listened to this episode, please feel free to share it over to them.
00:37:56.880 --> 00:38:02.400
That's how we get it in the hands of many other leaders is go from uh one leader to the next and uh grow the tribe.
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:04.239
So we would appreciate that for sure.
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:06.960
Until next time, go and grow champions.