The Things We Do... - Interview with Nicolette Pearse

WEBVTT
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of the things we do podcast a podcast about film
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life television culture mental health and all
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of that fun jazzy stuff today i've got my special
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guest and friend nicolette pierce hello that's
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me hello you know what it's so interesting because
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i had to say that like a few times to get that
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not that your name was not that your name is
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the hard part it's because my intro is because
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i gotta say it all rhythmically Yeah, my name
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sounds good. Say my name again. Nicolette Pierce.
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Oh, I like that. Thank you. That feels like how
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Pierce should be said. Yeah, well, I think it's
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because it's got a strong P. It's a strong P
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and a soft R. It's a soft R, strong P. This is
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concerning the more I say it like that. But here's
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a question for you because obviously the internet
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does not know who you are. Or maybe they do.
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Maybe they've stalked you a little bit. But I
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want you to give the internet a little rounded
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sort of circle of yourself. So could you tell
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the internet a little bit about yourself and
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who you are now? Sure. Internet. Hey. My name
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is Nicolette Pierce. I'm an actor. I'm a writer.
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I'm a producer. I'm Canadian and American. I
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grew up on the beautiful Vancouver Island in
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a city called Victoria. I live in Toronto. Not
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Toronto. Toronto. I like to craft. And I like
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to look after my plants. And I like to cook.
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What else? What else does the internet need to
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know? Marty? Cooking's good. Cooking's so good.
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I mean, honestly. Cooking is like my happy place.
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I think you get, like, don't look at me. No,
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you don't. No, I love cooking. I think cooking.
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younger me would love cooking i think i loved
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baking as a kid so that was kind of my like preference
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baking is science which which do you prefer cooking
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or baking cooking cooking is creativity baking
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is like oh okay so you like the the the creative
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part oh yeah i'm like i'm like I'm not following
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a recipe. Yeah, you don't like following the
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colloquial. I'm like tasting things. I'm like,
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I think it needs this. What if you put some of
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that in there? And then I'm like going through
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the cupboards. I'm like, this might be crazy,
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but I'm going to put this ingredient in it and
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we'll see. And you're just like, this tastes
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good. How about this flour? You know how hard
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it is to make a roux? I disagree. I think it's
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actually very easy to make a roux. You think
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you can make a roux? It's flour and oil, right?
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I think it's flour, butter and oil. And then
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it thickens to sauces, gravies. Whoever thought
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of this. Okay, so let me go into the zeitgeist
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before I ask you a bunch of questions. Are we
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going back to the origin of food? I'm here for
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it. I'm the origin of food. Wait, sorry. The
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origin of food? Okay. Because someone had to
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be like, this is flavorful deliciousness. And
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someone had to kind of like look back and be
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like, okay, so this on an ethical point is to
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be consumed by people. So we're like, yeah. Let's
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think about what is good. Let's get high protein
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of fat, flour, which we're not sure that go together
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just yet because we have not scienced it. But
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we're like, you know what? Oil as well because
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two fats must equal a right. And therefore, we've
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created a roux. Can I just say, if anyone actually
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knows how to roux or make a roux? Can you give
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us the actual stats of whatever it is? Because
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I did not Google this. I would say that really
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it all comes down to the pursuit of pleasure.
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Yeah, right. And a thin, watery stew is not pleasurable.
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Right, okay. A thick stew where it like coats
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the inside of your mouth and you can chew it
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a bit more on the way down and like all the pieces
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kind of stick together because it's goopy. Then
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I think you get more. pleasure, and also... Fat,
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it like flavor is transported in fat, like fat
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coats your mouth. And so the flavor sticks on
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your tongue and then your tongue. This is me
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nerding out about cooking. So like if something
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is fatty, you're going to taste more of it because
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you don't just swallow it right away. It literally
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coats your mouth. And that's why we start off
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with fat with cooking often. Or you like like
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with your fat, you might put some herbs or oil
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or garlic in there to flavor the fat because
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it holds that flavor. Have you ever thought about
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like going and going? back in time going to King
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Henry VIII and being like, I want to be one of
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your wives just so that I can eat at the court
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of King Henry VIII and just enjoy. Oh, I thought
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you were going to be like, so I can cook. I'm
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like, I don't think his wife's cooked. I want
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to go back. My mind is like, I don't want to
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eat it. I want to cook it. I want to do the thing.
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Oh, you want to cook. Oh, okay. I thought you
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meant like, because I also know from a historical
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point of view, because I've been to Hampton Court
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and they didn't, you know, pie crust. weren't
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edible. Like they weren't designed. They were
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disgusting to eat. Oh, they were just the vehicle
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for the meat? Yeah, they were the vehicle for
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the stew and the meat. And so I think it was.
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They didn't have enough butter. They just didn't.
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God damn it. They were just like, you know what,
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this needs butter. And guys were using too much
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salt. And the French came along and were like,
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more butter. Do you know this is the real truth.
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The French are amazing at butter. I'm amazed.
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I know. Yeah. I know that. I'm just amazed they're
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not, like, morbidly obese from the amount of
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butter. It is extraordinary. Yeah, I know. They're,
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like, some of the healthiest people. Yeah, North
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America, we don't get it. We don't get it. No,
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we're just like, mm, mm, more butter? Mm, yeah,
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just, like, all of it butter. All of it sugar
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and butter. But hang on. Okay, so going back
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to you, going back to the importance of you.
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I love... So you're not even a... Toronto girl.
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You're a BC girl. Live in the heart. Live in
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the dream. I think there was a moment, and I
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thought about this carefully, I think I would
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identify as a Toronto girl now. Really? When
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did you disown your rights to the BC world? I
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kept thinking or assuming that I would go back,
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and I've also lived in LA. And for me, LA was
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like... It satisfied that West Coast itch. And
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I lived in Vancouver for a bit. I was like, maybe
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I do want to be closer to family. Maybe I want
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to be back here. Toronto kept calling me back.
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I work here. I have community here. And then
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COVID. I was living in L .A. COVID hit. And it
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was like, do I go back to L .A. when? Do I go
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to Toronto? Do I stay in Victoria where I was
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like hanging out when the world was shut down?
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The choice to go back to Toronto, like I booked
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something here, but then coming back after over
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a year away and reintegrating with the city and
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feeling like I was choosing it again, that's
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when I started feeling like a Toronto girly.
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Really? Yeah. And I do. It feels like home. You
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feel like you've connected. But I do miss the
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ocean terribly. Yeah, I know. Do you? I do. I
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will say Lake Ontario does not. It does not.
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It does not quite. You know when you just turn
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over rocks and there's crabs crawling around?
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Yeah. Like the water is moving all the time.
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Well, it's also like that smell of salt and like
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the sea. And I think that's also growing up on
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a like. So Australia is the only continent and
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island. That exists on the planet. Oh. So it's
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not just a country, it's a continent. Yeah. And
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it's so interesting to me because all the cities
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are coastal, which, you know, a lot of Canadians
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don't understand. We don't. You don't have an
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interior where people live? No. Most of Australia
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is a desert. You live in a very small portion
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of it. Yeah. And there's Perth. I do know that.
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Perth is its own strange time zone, and I love
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Perth with all my heart because I have friends
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who live there, but I will also diss it every
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single time because it is a weird place. It's
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three hours behind the rest of Australia, and
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it just chooses to be its own little entity.
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You know, growing up in Sydney where it was like
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the fact that I've moved to Toronto and you got
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this sort of like lake versus the beaches and
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the ocean, that is a weird thing because that
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is the one thing I actually miss, like the smell
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of going around the harbour and sort of smelling
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the sea air. But, you know, people go and ask
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me all the time, it's like, what do you miss
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about Australia? And I'm like... There's also
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like the seasons here are the right way around.
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Like Christmas was summer in Australia. Like,
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which is the right way around. I'm using air
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quotes right now. But sure, like capitalism is
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like, it's Christmas, Santa. And you're like,
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where's the sleigh? It's hot. Yeah, I know. But
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it was like 35 degrees and heat. Like, you know,
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so you would be out. So I would always be grateful
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for 35 degrees. I know you. You know, the funny
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thing is, though, like, you know, it's the grass
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is always greener. The grass is always greener
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when you look at it. Until your mental health
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is perfect. What is this? Like some sort of like,
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you know, euphoria moment where we need to have
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perfect mental health? I think we should all
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aspire to wanting to be exactly where we are.
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I don't think you can ask for anything more.
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Do you think if you had perfect mental health,
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you would just like ascend? You would just like
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become non -corporeal? But where would I go?
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Oh no, I'm a Taurus. I love everything corporeal.
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That's a nightmare. You don't want to be some
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floating entity. I don't want to be just my spiritual
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being. I want earthly pleasures. I just love
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the idea that you reach mental health like capacity
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and suddenly you just burst into life and you
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float like in some sort of way. You like that
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idea. Well, I think it would just mean that everyone
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on earth is like never going to reach that because
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we only reach that after death, which is like
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the whole point of Kapoor. That is my idea of
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death, actually. That's my fantasy. And like
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growing up having believed in a religion and
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then been like, no, that's not it. Yeah. But
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I think. When I fantasize about that, whether
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the universe, God, a being, meaning, I think
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religion is beautiful and has purpose in people's
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lives. But what I really miss was this idea that
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after death, there will be certainty and we will
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all be on the same page. This is the truth. This
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is why we're here. This is the being that exists
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or not exists. This is... This person actually
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did lie to you that day. You're like, I told
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you. It's that. It's like the self -righteousness
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of like, where was I wrong? Where was I right?
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And now there's no discord. We all know truth.
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What a fantasy. Wouldn't that be great? To just
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all be on the same page. Yeah. To all agree.
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Yeah. Because you have like this superior consciousness.
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Are you talking about like a hive mind, like
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gestalt kind of thing where it's like we all
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share the same sort of like thought? Well, when
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I hear hive mind, I think like enclosed and subjected
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to like, I don't know, the mother bee or the
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queen bee or something. I mean, yeah. No, I mean,
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like, like letting go of the subjective consciousness
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of our own singular experience and tapping into
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maybe a larger consciousness where you. you see
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so much more. And so you're not trapped by your
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singular perspective. That would be great. Wouldn't
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that be amazing? That would be the best. I mean,
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like, you know, honestly, I can't wait till that
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day. It's probably many years away from me. Or
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maybe we just lose all consciousness and awareness.
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And we just cease to exist. There is a film out
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there. Really? Yes. Not that it does that to
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people who watch the film. It's not like The
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Ring. But there is a film that essentially, like,
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is a science fiction film and it says at the
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end of it like um it's based so begonia which
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is um yeah which is based on is it so the original
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film is a is i think it's a chinese film and
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it's basically like the ending is the same where
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it's like the aliens decide if you've not seen
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begonia like What are you doing? Yeah, what are
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you doing with your life? Like, everyone's got
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to be a fan of Yorgos Lanthimos at this point,
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whether all his work or not. Yeah, I love the
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favorite. It's great. Oh, that was my favorite
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before Begonia. It's still up there. I just think
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that Begonia challenges us differently. Well,
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it's so good. But, you know, like essentially
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this thing of like human extinction and it's
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sort of like being like, okay, now we're going
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to cleanse everything and, you know, start again.
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The experiment failed. And I do think that, you
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know, is such an interesting thing but i mean
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like you know it does make us think i mean like
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okay so going going well back though because
00:12:59.139 --> 00:13:02.519
okay acting okay acting acting because you know
00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:05.919
like that acting acting this is my reason for
00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:09.399
existence well is it i don't know i mean like
00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:11.259
yeah because you have so many things that you
00:13:11.259 --> 00:13:14.279
do and and and love to do which i mean like was
00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:18.159
Was there always a thing of like this performative
00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:21.279
child in you that kind of like needed to be like,
00:13:21.340 --> 00:13:24.960
was it that version of you to be felt seen? I
00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.100
mean, I think it does actually come back to sort
00:13:28.100 --> 00:13:30.039
of what we're touching on, which is this desire
00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:35.139
for knowledge and experience and this deep frustration
00:13:35.139 --> 00:13:40.080
that all my choices limit me and I only have
00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:43.399
this one life to live. On top of that, my fascination
00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:46.500
with stories. I was just an avid reader and I
00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:50.399
loved fantasy and historical fiction and these
00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:56.159
worlds that I would deeply live in in my mind.
00:13:56.860 --> 00:14:00.759
And then when I saw, for instance, Lord of the
00:14:00.759 --> 00:14:03.200
Rings, the films came out and I was like, holy
00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:08.840
shit. Wait, hold on. I lived in that world in
00:14:08.840 --> 00:14:11.120
my brain in my book. And then someone got to
00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:15.019
like live in that world in, I don't know, New
00:14:15.019 --> 00:14:19.200
Zealand and do these things and say those lines
00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:21.100
and pretend like they had magic. Like, I think
00:14:21.100 --> 00:14:25.440
it was the idea that I could expand my experience.
00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:30.360
But yeah, the first time I was in a play, I think
00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:36.250
I was 12. What my takeaway from that was like
00:14:36.250 --> 00:14:38.629
I it was I was the artful Dodger and Oliver Twist
00:14:38.629 --> 00:14:42.230
and I wasn't the strongest singer, but and, you
00:14:42.230 --> 00:14:44.549
know, I didn't take dance classes, but I was
00:14:44.549 --> 00:14:47.250
having fun and I wasn't nervous and I didn't
00:14:47.250 --> 00:14:50.529
mind the attention. And there were kids around
00:14:50.529 --> 00:14:53.970
me who were like shy or really anxious about
00:14:53.970 --> 00:14:59.009
being on stage or it was like. I felt so comfortable
00:14:59.009 --> 00:15:02.789
and so present and embodied in that environment
00:15:02.789 --> 00:15:05.730
and like living out this imaginary story and
00:15:05.730 --> 00:15:09.210
having people observe me. And, and I think, yeah,
00:15:09.509 --> 00:15:12.490
there was also just that. Which I love, you know,
00:15:12.509 --> 00:15:15.429
like, I mean, do you, do you feel because, you
00:15:15.429 --> 00:15:19.000
know, we all remember our dark. times of our
00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:22.779
first place um do you do you sort of think of
00:15:22.779 --> 00:15:24.820
yourself okay so that wasn't actually my first
00:15:24.820 --> 00:15:26.659
play and my first play was joseph and the amazing
00:15:26.659 --> 00:15:28.600
technicolor dream coat and i was in the chorus
00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:30.899
and we all had colorful t -shirts and mine was
00:15:30.899 --> 00:15:33.330
very very big and bright How old were you at
00:15:33.330 --> 00:15:37.269
that time? I have no idea. Because I mean, like,
00:15:37.269 --> 00:15:39.289
you know, the first conscious zeitgeist, I mean,
00:15:39.309 --> 00:15:41.769
did you sort of think, oh, okay, this is the
00:15:41.769 --> 00:15:43.909
dream. This is everything I wanted it to be.
00:15:44.090 --> 00:15:46.210
Or did it feel like, oh. No, it was just one
00:15:46.210 --> 00:15:47.789
of the things that I was obsessed with. I also
00:15:47.789 --> 00:15:51.169
played sports. I also liked to do well at school.
00:15:51.309 --> 00:15:56.110
I also, I don't know, there were, I did art.
00:15:56.370 --> 00:15:59.230
Like, I liked to do art. I think that I always
00:15:59.230 --> 00:16:02.669
had so many interests that it felt, really hard
00:16:02.669 --> 00:16:05.750
to pick one. And I also had this narrative that
00:16:05.750 --> 00:16:08.909
like I wasn't the best at anything because I
00:16:08.909 --> 00:16:12.470
was splitting my time and energy so much. And
00:16:12.470 --> 00:16:15.389
so there was a sense of competition like, oh,
00:16:15.389 --> 00:16:17.190
I'm never going to be like the best actor or
00:16:17.190 --> 00:16:20.149
the best in school or like the best athlete because
00:16:20.149 --> 00:16:22.929
I don't dedicate all everything to that thing
00:16:22.929 --> 00:16:25.570
the way that these other kids do, because why
00:16:25.570 --> 00:16:27.700
would I? put all my time into there if it means
00:16:27.700 --> 00:16:30.039
I don't get to do this other thing. Yeah. And
00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:31.919
so I felt like I was kind of splitting myself
00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:37.539
a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Which is a strange feeling,
00:16:37.580 --> 00:16:42.820
like, to be, like, you know, that, I guess, age
00:16:42.820 --> 00:16:45.500
range and be like, oh, okay, I'm doing a multitude
00:16:45.500 --> 00:16:49.440
of different things. Like kids start to identify
00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:51.620
the first thing that they're good at and their
00:16:51.620 --> 00:16:53.820
parents encourage that and teachers encourage
00:16:53.820 --> 00:16:57.149
that and then to, like, I don't know. Not everyone
00:16:57.149 --> 00:16:59.549
has that, though. Well, I think it's like, you
00:16:59.549 --> 00:17:02.429
know, it goes back to my, like, you know, childhood,
00:17:02.450 --> 00:17:05.529
which, you know, was really interesting because
00:17:05.529 --> 00:17:09.529
I think I was in grade nine and my mom saw me
00:17:09.529 --> 00:17:13.430
in a play. What play? So I can't remember the
00:17:13.430 --> 00:17:16.470
life of it. No, it wasn't. It was an Australian
00:17:16.470 --> 00:17:20.869
play. But the play was about this guy who went.
00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:24.299
To basically, he was sort of like forced to go
00:17:24.299 --> 00:17:27.140
to this prison to help with community. Oh, no,
00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:28.759
it was a mental institution. Sorry, you were
00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:30.900
nine years old? No, I wasn't nine. I was in grade
00:17:30.900 --> 00:17:33.559
nine. Oh, that's different. Yeah. Yeah, I was
00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:36.940
like, I was like, it's a bit older. Nine years
00:17:36.940 --> 00:17:40.480
old, I wouldn't recommend that. But no, I remember
00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:45.339
I was in like, you know, this sort of like this
00:17:45.339 --> 00:17:49.060
mental institution trying to teach people. About,
00:17:49.060 --> 00:17:51.160
like, being characters. And so the whole plot
00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:53.160
of the story was this guy putting on a play.
00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:56.839
And so I was the director in the play, like,
00:17:56.859 --> 00:17:59.180
playing this character. And I remember, like,
00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:00.960
my mom really liked one of the other actors.
00:18:01.099 --> 00:18:04.279
And I think it was, like, it was always sort
00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:07.099
of believing, you know, your parents aren't.
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:09.220
Like, and I love my mom, don't get me wrong.
00:18:09.319 --> 00:18:11.700
But it's always believing that your parents aren't
00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:15.119
always the advice givers. you want to hear because
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:16.619
they don't always give you the advice you want
00:18:16.619 --> 00:18:19.660
to hear because she was like she was very driven
00:18:19.660 --> 00:18:22.559
on the fact of like what's profitable and she
00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:26.900
was like acting is not profitable no and so she
00:18:26.900 --> 00:18:30.539
was always like oh okay how about you think about
00:18:30.539 --> 00:18:36.380
other things and I was like you know probably
00:18:36.380 --> 00:18:39.500
would have been about like maybe 15 and I was
00:18:39.500 --> 00:18:42.849
like I still get that like Oh, I booked the...
00:18:42.849 --> 00:18:45.289
Congrats, honey. Have you thought about, like,
00:18:45.369 --> 00:18:47.369
is there anything else that you'd want to do?
00:18:47.750 --> 00:18:51.289
Do you really get that still? I'd say in the
00:18:51.289 --> 00:18:54.130
last couple of years, not as much. But yeah,
00:18:54.230 --> 00:18:57.049
absolutely. Well, they're concerned. They don't
00:18:57.049 --> 00:18:59.269
know a lot about my day -to -day life. And to
00:18:59.269 --> 00:19:02.190
them, it just seems like a lot of space in between
00:19:02.190 --> 00:19:06.359
jobs. Which was it like... The weird thing of
00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:08.140
like, you know, because you said you lived in
00:19:08.140 --> 00:19:10.279
L .A. What was that experience like? Was that
00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:12.400
sort of like with your family? Oh, no, no, no.
00:19:13.819 --> 00:19:18.500
No, after high school, I moved. I went to Queens
00:19:18.500 --> 00:19:21.059
University in Kingston. And so I went away for
00:19:21.059 --> 00:19:23.480
school. Yeah, it looks like a castle. And I was
00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:25.700
like, adventure! It's time for my adventure to
00:19:25.700 --> 00:19:27.980
begin at the castle of Queens University. I'd
00:19:27.980 --> 00:19:29.880
never been there before. I think I like met someone
00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:32.960
who had done the theater program there, which
00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:35.299
isn't like a conservatory program. I just got
00:19:35.299 --> 00:19:39.460
a Bachelor of Arts. You're just like... But,
00:19:39.900 --> 00:19:45.460
oh yeah, I haven't gone back and like my family,
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:49.880
my parents don't have a strong, like they weren't
00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:53.200
trying to steer me any direction. It was very
00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:57.000
much like we can, I support you if that's what
00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:59.000
you want to do. And by support, I mean like emotional
00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:01.339
support because I don't know if I've told you
00:20:01.339 --> 00:20:03.039
this, but I have a huge family. I'm one of nine
00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:07.319
kids. One of nine? I'm the second oldest. Wow,
00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:10.460
your parents got busy. They've been busy. They're
00:20:10.460 --> 00:20:13.480
still busy. Everyone's busy. Are they still pumping
00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:17.319
out kids at this point? No. No, no, no. The youngest
00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:22.500
is, oh, I think he's 16. But I feel like I'm
00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:25.160
going to get this wrong. You're going to hear
00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:28.000
it later. He's like around 16. That feels right.
00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:32.440
Yeah. So he was born after I'd already moved
00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:34.059
out, but I was the first one to move out. And
00:20:34.059 --> 00:20:37.579
it was sort of like they, you know, they encouraged
00:20:37.579 --> 00:20:40.039
me to to figure it out and do what I want to
00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:43.339
do. But they didn't have like a they didn't have
00:20:43.339 --> 00:20:47.779
a strong perspective on it. And I just wanted
00:20:47.779 --> 00:20:52.940
an adventure. I went on an adventure. I mean,
00:20:52.940 --> 00:20:56.000
were you the only one in your family to sort
00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:01.900
of pursue the arts? Yeah, my younger sister did
00:21:01.900 --> 00:21:04.160
study journalism, actually. Oh, wow. She writes
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:07.730
like beautiful little pieces of poetry. Right
00:21:07.730 --> 00:21:09.630
now she runs a landscaping crew. She's never
00:21:09.630 --> 00:21:12.329
worked in the arts. That's insane. I'm the only
00:21:12.329 --> 00:21:14.549
one who's worked in the arts or done anything
00:21:14.549 --> 00:21:17.170
like that. So you're kind of like, not in a negative
00:21:17.170 --> 00:21:19.769
way, but you're a bit of the black sheep. Oh,
00:21:19.809 --> 00:21:22.630
totally, 100%. And I was also like the first
00:21:22.630 --> 00:21:27.549
one to leave the family fold and live differently.
00:21:29.740 --> 00:21:32.700
And all of that. And so I think that I don't
00:21:32.700 --> 00:21:34.980
know what it's like from their perspective. From
00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:37.140
my perspective, it just felt like a lot of I
00:21:37.140 --> 00:21:40.759
don't know what I'm doing. From their perspective,
00:21:40.819 --> 00:21:43.240
it was probably like, oh, Nicolette, what is
00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:46.359
she doing now? That's crazy. Wait, but actually,
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:48.920
if Nicolette did that, then maybe I could, too.
00:21:49.180 --> 00:21:51.799
Like that idea of, oh, Nicolette did these things.
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:53.440
So maybe that's an option. That's a different
00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:56.680
way of living. And that's what I didn't have,
00:21:56.779 --> 00:21:58.900
I think, would be the difference, if that makes
00:21:58.900 --> 00:22:02.000
sense. Which does make sense. And it's sort of
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:03.960
interesting because, you know, the perspective
00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:09.200
of, like, I'm the youngest. You are. You're the
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:12.759
baby. I'm the baby. But, you know, like, it's
00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:15.579
sort of not too dissimilar. Like, I'm the only
00:22:15.579 --> 00:22:18.500
one who pursued the arts. And I think... You're
00:22:18.500 --> 00:22:20.819
the youngest of two. Yeah. So it's like, you
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:23.220
know, my brother... We're kind of in a similar
00:22:23.220 --> 00:22:24.940
position, actually, because you weren't the oldest.
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:28.240
I think the oldest is always hard. I think that's
00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:30.359
a burden. Well, I think it's like, because you
00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:33.000
get the brunt of being the first child. Yeah,
00:22:33.099 --> 00:22:35.460
it's a lot of responsibility. It's a recipe for
00:22:35.460 --> 00:22:39.000
anxiety. It's a pattern that I've noticed. It
00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:41.500
so is. I love my brother, but, you know, the
00:22:41.500 --> 00:22:42.980
constant anxiety. He's probably going to listen
00:22:42.980 --> 00:22:44.140
to this later and be like, what do you mean?
00:22:44.299 --> 00:22:45.319
I'm like, no, you're an anxious... He's like,
00:22:45.380 --> 00:22:47.180
you don't know, that's the problem. You don't
00:22:47.180 --> 00:22:50.980
know, you're an anxious fuck. But I think, like,
00:22:51.099 --> 00:22:56.150
you know, I've got a beautiful, like, family
00:22:56.150 --> 00:22:58.450
in that way. And it's sort of interesting because
00:22:58.450 --> 00:23:00.529
my brother did not pursue, he's an anthropologist.
00:23:00.869 --> 00:23:04.130
So he was a very academically driven person.
00:23:04.230 --> 00:23:08.009
And I think, like, my dad obviously was a photographer.
00:23:08.490 --> 00:23:12.569
So that was the only arts that I knew. My mom
00:23:12.569 --> 00:23:14.829
was a journalist. She worked in marketing at
00:23:14.829 --> 00:23:17.730
the University of Sydney. She was very sort of
00:23:17.730 --> 00:23:20.210
driven by, like. It's very art adjacent. Art
00:23:20.210 --> 00:23:24.200
adjacent, but, like, She was very mono -academically
00:23:24.200 --> 00:23:27.839
driven and very like she loved books. She loved
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:29.759
stories. She loved Agatha Christie and like all
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:32.539
those things. And so I think it's really interesting
00:23:32.539 --> 00:23:36.359
in regards to being like now as, you know, like
00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:42.059
as the age that I am at 34, it does sort of feel.
00:23:42.870 --> 00:23:45.289
Like, oh, you know, you are still the young kid.
00:23:45.349 --> 00:23:47.009
Like, you know, whenever I talk to my mom, I
00:23:47.009 --> 00:23:48.630
still feel like, you know, I am the youngest,
00:23:48.789 --> 00:23:51.190
you know, the way, you know, not that I have
00:23:51.190 --> 00:23:53.670
any sort of like dissatisfaction with that, but
00:23:53.670 --> 00:23:55.250
it is sort of like I was the pocket. You're like,
00:23:55.250 --> 00:23:57.630
I'm so happy. You're lucky. Yeah, I know. But
00:23:57.630 --> 00:23:59.769
I was like the pocket rocket. So, you know, like,
00:23:59.829 --> 00:24:03.029
and I think pursuing the arts, you know, there's
00:24:03.029 --> 00:24:05.349
a lot of love. Like I have so much, you know,
00:24:05.369 --> 00:24:06.670
I've said this to you before, but, you know,
00:24:06.690 --> 00:24:09.650
I have so much love for the arts. And it is not
00:24:09.650 --> 00:24:16.789
the most. profitable, if not sort of really like,
00:24:16.849 --> 00:24:22.089
you know, widely respected, which is a weird
00:24:22.089 --> 00:24:24.210
thing. It's complicated to talk about. Yeah.
00:24:24.230 --> 00:24:27.349
And you have to field a lot, especially when
00:24:27.349 --> 00:24:28.589
you're starting out, you're trying to figure
00:24:28.589 --> 00:24:31.430
it out. What you're constantly fielding are these
00:24:31.430 --> 00:24:33.349
questions of like, but what do you really do?
00:24:33.430 --> 00:24:35.990
Oh, really? And what's that like? And you don't
00:24:35.990 --> 00:24:39.069
even know the industry yet. Like no one, very
00:24:39.069 --> 00:24:41.420
few people. just start making a living right
00:24:41.420 --> 00:24:43.400
off the bat. And so you're dealing with this
00:24:43.400 --> 00:24:45.759
imposter syndrome on top of trying to figure
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:47.839
it out, on top of trying to make a living in
00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:51.799
a new city, whatever. It's a lot. Yeah. I mean,
00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:54.200
did you, because I had this feeling, but did
00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:56.319
you freak out when someone gave you your first
00:24:56.319 --> 00:24:59.359
paycheck for like, you know, acting? And then
00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:02.619
you were like, what the fuck? Oh my God. Yeah.
00:25:02.660 --> 00:25:06.259
You know what? I was actually, I was reflecting
00:25:06.259 --> 00:25:08.240
on this last night because my partner was like,
00:25:08.539 --> 00:25:11.660
how did you end up in Toronto? And I was like,
00:25:11.779 --> 00:25:17.319
oh, well, as I was graduating, I wasn't a play,
00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:19.259
like in university, I wasn't sure I was going
00:25:19.259 --> 00:25:21.220
to apply for law school or graduate school. I
00:25:21.220 --> 00:25:24.359
really, I liked academia, but I was sort of like
00:25:24.359 --> 00:25:27.259
ready to be out of the institution. It just felt,
00:25:27.299 --> 00:25:29.460
I'm like, why do I need good grades? Why does
00:25:29.460 --> 00:25:31.440
it matter? Who am I trying to please? Like, what
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:35.170
am I doing for myself? I was in a play in my
00:25:35.170 --> 00:25:37.710
last year, which was like the first time that
00:25:37.710 --> 00:25:41.809
I was the lead. And it was As You Like It. I
00:25:41.809 --> 00:25:43.990
played Rosalind. I feel like I'm maybe saying
00:25:43.990 --> 00:25:45.509
her name wrong. And now I feel like. It's Rosalind.
00:25:45.549 --> 00:25:49.609
Oh, my God. Thank you. So much fun. Yeah. And
00:25:49.609 --> 00:25:53.250
and then someone who was doing my friend Ryan
00:25:53.250 --> 00:25:55.930
LaPlante was working, was directing something
00:25:55.930 --> 00:25:57.990
for theater by the Bay and Barry. Yeah. And he
00:25:57.990 --> 00:26:00.269
saw the play, offered me my first acting job.
00:26:00.450 --> 00:26:03.069
Oh, wow. And I was like. Oh, my God, I've made
00:26:03.069 --> 00:26:07.490
it. This is like a sign from the universe. And
00:26:07.490 --> 00:26:10.630
it was like we did Midsummer Night's Dream and
00:26:10.630 --> 00:26:12.309
went around to high schools and did like a cute
00:26:12.309 --> 00:26:15.630
version of that play. But that like and I actually
00:26:15.630 --> 00:26:18.410
do remember him giving me my first paycheck.
00:26:18.950 --> 00:26:20.589
And then as a joke, he was like, don't forget
00:26:20.589 --> 00:26:22.490
to sign the back and hand it back to me. Wow.
00:26:22.569 --> 00:26:25.490
And I started signing the back. Like, OK, I knew
00:26:25.490 --> 00:26:28.269
how checks work in theory, but also and everyone
00:26:28.269 --> 00:26:30.230
was like laughing at me. And I was like, wait,
00:26:30.309 --> 00:26:32.799
what? And he's like, I didn't actually mean that.
00:26:33.019 --> 00:26:35.740
Like, you got to keep that money. It was just
00:26:35.740 --> 00:26:39.740
like this weird moment of feeling, I don't know,
00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:42.180
like an idiot and like an utter imposter, like
00:26:42.180 --> 00:26:44.319
a child out there in the real world and like
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:46.539
playing with pretend money to do something that
00:26:46.539 --> 00:26:51.720
was just fun. That is so true as well. And it's
00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:56.539
sort of like, I remember the first time, like
00:26:56.539 --> 00:27:01.769
my first paid gig. Which was, you know, like
00:27:01.769 --> 00:27:04.130
I remember. It was like a play, a commercial.
00:27:04.369 --> 00:27:08.230
No, no. The first commercial paycheck. I wish.
00:27:08.970 --> 00:27:11.230
That's incentivizing. I remember I was working
00:27:11.230 --> 00:27:14.049
for a TV station, which, you know, like I. So
00:27:14.049 --> 00:27:17.369
the way my transition happened was I did. I was
00:27:17.369 --> 00:27:19.230
doing a film course. So I was an usher for three
00:27:19.230 --> 00:27:23.349
years. And so it was an add on. So the University
00:27:23.349 --> 00:27:25.819
of Sydney had like an. a theater they're connected
00:27:25.819 --> 00:27:28.700
to called the Seymour Center. And I applied when
00:27:28.700 --> 00:27:30.859
I was 18 to like, so I worked there until I was
00:27:30.859 --> 00:27:34.480
21. And I remember I started doing in North Sydney,
00:27:34.619 --> 00:27:38.859
there was a tertiary education course at TAFE.
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:41.380
And I remember I was like, I'm going to apply
00:27:41.380 --> 00:27:44.019
for film and TV. And I applied. And then one
00:27:44.019 --> 00:27:45.839
of the teachers recommended me to the local TV
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:49.420
station, which was like, it was Channel 9. And
00:27:49.420 --> 00:27:51.180
it's like a massive, it was like the oldest.
00:27:51.549 --> 00:27:53.529
Bless teachers. A supportive teacher won't change
00:27:53.529 --> 00:27:56.329
your life. It's so good. You just need one. Yeah.
00:27:57.029 --> 00:27:59.910
You just need one. She was amazing as well. And
00:27:59.910 --> 00:28:01.930
I remember they offered me an internship, which
00:28:01.930 --> 00:28:03.990
was paid, by the way. So it was a paid year -long
00:28:03.990 --> 00:28:06.849
internship. And I remember the first time I rocked
00:28:06.849 --> 00:28:09.150
up, I was thinking, oh, my God, I've really made
00:28:09.150 --> 00:28:12.289
it. This is in the real world. But I was also
00:28:12.289 --> 00:28:15.809
like, oh, no, I won't get paid for this. I remember
00:28:15.809 --> 00:28:17.869
I saw my first paycheck and I was like, it's
00:28:17.869 --> 00:28:20.880
real money. This is the thing. This is like,
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:22.960
and it was the same when I got my first like
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:26.660
photography gig. Like I remember I was paid,
00:28:26.779 --> 00:28:29.299
like someone asked me to do headshots. I was
00:28:29.299 --> 00:28:31.220
not good, by the way. These were not good headshots.
00:28:31.380 --> 00:28:34.259
That's okay. They sucked. But I remember like
00:28:34.259 --> 00:28:36.480
- Don't be hard on yourself. Thank you. I've
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:39.180
gone a long way. But they were like, paid me
00:28:39.180 --> 00:28:40.880
like a hundred bucks. It was like a family friend.
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:44.950
And I was like, I was like. Why? Like my first
00:28:44.950 --> 00:28:46.809
thought was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
00:28:46.809 --> 00:28:49.710
no, don't, don't, don't. Oh, that of like, I
00:28:49.710 --> 00:28:51.630
don't deserve to be paid. I'm not good enough
00:28:51.630 --> 00:28:54.009
yet. Yeah. When you're talking about art, like
00:28:54.009 --> 00:28:55.769
it's completely subjective. Well, headshots.
00:28:56.009 --> 00:28:59.609
Well, I mean, like also headshots are astronomically
00:28:59.609 --> 00:29:04.430
expensive. Yes, that's true. But, you know, like
00:29:04.430 --> 00:29:11.339
the echelon of what we like expect. was just
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:13.319
astronomical to me. You know, it's like that
00:29:13.319 --> 00:29:15.880
whole of like, oh, you know, someone wants to
00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:20.119
pay you to, you know. But it's kind of sweet
00:29:20.119 --> 00:29:23.660
and romantic, is it not? Because as you start
00:29:23.660 --> 00:29:26.720
working more and expecting more, like someone
00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:28.160
offers me a job and it's like you're getting
00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:30.599
paid scale. Hey, scale's good. I'm in the union.
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:35.000
But I'm like, hmm, really? Haven't I been paid
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:37.119
more than scale before? It's like you start and
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:39.119
then like your agents talk to you away and you're
00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:41.500
or like you've set a new rate for your headshots
00:29:41.500 --> 00:29:44.299
maybe. And that is the expectation. And yeah,
00:29:44.359 --> 00:29:47.900
and it kind of it becomes I think at the very
00:29:47.900 --> 00:29:50.640
beginning, the fact that you're getting paid
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:53.640
feels like a bonus. And that is so joyful. And
00:29:53.640 --> 00:29:55.579
you're like, you're giving me permission to do
00:29:55.579 --> 00:30:01.180
my art. And gradually it just becomes a mark
00:30:01.180 --> 00:30:05.079
of your worth. Yeah. Or your status in the industry,
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:08.900
because that is how we determine who has the
00:30:08.900 --> 00:30:11.440
most status and who deserves the most or whatever.
00:30:12.019 --> 00:30:13.779
Well, I think that I think that's true. And I
00:30:13.779 --> 00:30:17.480
mean, like, do you do you feel in that saying
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:21.019
of like, oh, OK, scale, because because it's
00:30:21.019 --> 00:30:24.299
interesting when you sort of go, oh, OK, I've
00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:26.180
been paid this much or, you know, like I've been
00:30:26.180 --> 00:30:30.539
like set a margin or set an expectation. And
00:30:30.539 --> 00:30:33.119
I mean, like, you know, it. It's sort of like
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:37.839
every time you add skill to your repertoire,
00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:40.720
to your CV. Do you know this? So I learned something
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:43.859
really recently, which I think is a great trifecta.
00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:46.200
So I was listening to a podcast recently and
00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:48.599
the guy said on it, there has to be three things
00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:52.480
in order to consider. And at least two of those
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:54.980
things should be worth considering for. He said,
00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:58.119
if it's one of those things, think about it.
00:30:58.180 --> 00:31:00.710
But if it's two of those things. definitely consider
00:31:00.710 --> 00:31:02.769
it. And then if three or three things, bang on,
00:31:02.809 --> 00:31:05.009
that's fantastic. But he said, the first thing,
00:31:05.009 --> 00:31:07.890
it has to be good for the bank account. He said,
00:31:07.930 --> 00:31:11.670
it has to be good for the CV. And is it good
00:31:11.670 --> 00:31:14.430
for the soul? And he says, if it has to be two
00:31:14.430 --> 00:31:16.089
of those things where it's good for the CV and
00:31:16.089 --> 00:31:17.809
the soul, he's like, absolutely, I'll still do
00:31:17.809 --> 00:31:21.309
it. Because otherwise, if it's always good, you
00:31:21.309 --> 00:31:23.549
know, and I know you know that, and I know, you
00:31:23.549 --> 00:31:25.369
know, we sort of like talk about the sliding
00:31:25.369 --> 00:31:29.839
scale. But it is interesting because, You know,
00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:34.440
we see billion dollar movie franchises and stuff
00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:36.119
like that, which, you know, we all admire. And,
00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:39.400
you know, some people go, I hope to achieve that.
00:31:39.539 --> 00:31:42.579
But it is kind of interesting because, you know,
00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:44.980
you see a lot of those artists and a lot of those
00:31:44.980 --> 00:31:47.160
people like it really enjoy the independent stuff
00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:49.480
as well. And they kind of go, yeah, I want to
00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:53.259
work for like or I want to sacrifice my salary
00:31:53.259 --> 00:31:56.059
to help that film get off the ground. And we
00:31:56.059 --> 00:31:59.670
depend. Yeah. Those artists. And there is I mean,
00:31:59.670 --> 00:32:03.569
I know this from talking to friends who have
00:32:03.569 --> 00:32:06.210
made it into like the Marvel franchise. Yeah.
00:32:06.410 --> 00:32:09.569
And they're like. I mean, we should all be so
00:32:09.569 --> 00:32:12.930
lucky. And yes, I assume they pay well, but they
00:32:12.930 --> 00:32:15.890
were like it was not a great experience on set
00:32:15.890 --> 00:32:20.130
because they have a huge budget. You're often
00:32:20.130 --> 00:32:23.190
just waiting around your your character or your
00:32:23.190 --> 00:32:26.490
role. maybe doesn't involve a lot of actual lines
00:32:26.490 --> 00:32:29.190
or participation or creativity um you're just
00:32:29.190 --> 00:32:32.569
like part of this bigger world and and it takes
00:32:32.569 --> 00:32:35.950
you out of the running from auditioning or participating
00:32:35.950 --> 00:32:39.410
in other projects yeah and i think that you know
00:32:39.410 --> 00:32:43.109
what a lot of artists maybe don't even get the
00:32:43.109 --> 00:32:45.849
chance to consider is this option where it's
00:32:45.849 --> 00:32:47.970
only good for the bank account but maybe it's
00:32:47.970 --> 00:32:50.269
not good for your cv and not good for your soul
00:32:50.269 --> 00:32:53.599
or maybe it's like OK, if I put this on my CV,
00:32:53.779 --> 00:32:56.559
I might get pigeonholed in this world. You know,
00:32:56.579 --> 00:33:00.839
there are some some sort of projects that once
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:02.920
you start doing them a lot and they're on your
00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:04.900
resume, that's how people will start to perceive
00:33:04.900 --> 00:33:08.640
you. And does that align with your goals? Yeah.
00:33:08.859 --> 00:33:11.019
With how you want to be perceived by casting,
00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:17.779
by producers. It's but you're it's very fortunate
00:33:17.779 --> 00:33:20.579
to get to the point where you're. thinking about
00:33:20.579 --> 00:33:23.059
all of that. A hundred percent, you know, and
00:33:23.059 --> 00:33:26.960
then you have people like, I mean, yeah, I would
00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:29.519
do shit for free if I can make a living and I
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:31.500
would could just like, like do the roles that
00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:33.940
I love for free all the time and just had enough
00:33:33.940 --> 00:33:37.240
money to live. Like, of course it's, it's my
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:39.380
favorite thing in the whole fucking world is
00:33:39.380 --> 00:33:41.279
like being on set and collaborating with other
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:44.559
storytellers and participating in making the
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:49.779
story come to life. Yeah. Um, but. Then I have
00:33:49.779 --> 00:33:52.019
like my agent, my manager, you have people in
00:33:52.019 --> 00:33:54.380
your ear who have opinions and perspectives and
00:33:54.380 --> 00:33:57.220
maybe have like the idea of the long term goal
00:33:57.220 --> 00:34:02.039
or trajectory. And it's it becomes more complicated.
00:34:02.579 --> 00:34:05.099
I absolutely agree with that. And I think there's
00:34:05.099 --> 00:34:12.400
there's, you know, the sort of discussion of
00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:15.820
like, you know, the you know, keeping you in
00:34:15.820 --> 00:34:17.909
line or keeping you in check. which is to be
00:34:17.909 --> 00:34:19.730
like, oh, okay, you know, like when you want
00:34:19.730 --> 00:34:21.510
to do everything, you can't do everything. I
00:34:21.510 --> 00:34:23.269
sort of always sort of jokingly say that my partner,
00:34:23.309 --> 00:34:25.809
Em, is like my manager. She's very good at keeping
00:34:25.809 --> 00:34:30.329
me in line. That's good. You need someone like
00:34:30.329 --> 00:34:34.010
that. But, you know, it is sort of interesting
00:34:34.010 --> 00:34:38.130
because when you do think about it like that
00:34:38.130 --> 00:34:40.190
and you do go, oh, okay, I want to pursue everything,
00:34:40.409 --> 00:34:45.309
you know, like everything I make, you know, is
00:34:45.309 --> 00:34:47.309
people go to me like, how much do you profit?
00:34:47.909 --> 00:34:52.269
I'm like, I do other jobs to like make that profit
00:34:52.269 --> 00:34:54.429
me. I'll tell you in May when I file my taxes,
00:34:54.489 --> 00:34:56.369
but like take it with a grain of salt. Yeah,
00:34:56.409 --> 00:34:58.570
I know. It's like, fuck. Like, you know, and
00:34:58.570 --> 00:35:00.730
I, you know, don't get me wrong. I love everything
00:35:00.730 --> 00:35:03.369
I do. And I'm very grateful for everything. Like
00:35:03.369 --> 00:35:06.949
I still, like my plans are always to, you know,
00:35:06.969 --> 00:35:08.630
make more things. And, you know, over the next
00:35:08.630 --> 00:35:11.110
couple of years, I want to make and, you know,
00:35:11.130 --> 00:35:15.590
like act and do more things. It is kind of an
00:35:15.590 --> 00:35:18.889
interesting thing because you have these long
00:35:18.889 --> 00:35:22.670
dreams and these long scopes. But, you know,
00:35:22.690 --> 00:35:25.590
there's always this. I think the thing that I
00:35:25.590 --> 00:35:27.590
always get griped about, though, is patience.
00:35:28.489 --> 00:35:31.409
Because patience is such a virtue. It's hard
00:35:31.409 --> 00:35:34.389
to understand the long game. Yeah. Until you've,
00:35:34.449 --> 00:35:37.789
well, just been in it. Well, yeah. And I think
00:35:37.789 --> 00:35:43.719
it's. Yeah, you're very hungry for what's right
00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:46.039
in front of you and every opportunity feels like
00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:49.480
the last one you're going to get. And every bigger
00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:52.000
opportunity feels like this could be the make
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:58.099
it or break it. And I think that is just a perspective.
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:01.039
A perspective that can kind of diminish over
00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:04.260
time as you trust yourself, as you understand
00:36:04.260 --> 00:36:07.460
the industry and what you have to offer and also
00:36:07.460 --> 00:36:12.900
understand what... isn't in your control, it
00:36:12.900 --> 00:36:14.400
doesn't help to try to control something that's
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:16.019
not in your control. If you're feeling bitter
00:36:16.019 --> 00:36:18.619
and angry because you don't have the same opportunities
00:36:18.619 --> 00:36:20.860
as some other people or that you would like,
00:36:20.980 --> 00:36:24.099
that's just, that is just going to poison your
00:36:24.099 --> 00:36:28.199
joy. And so I think, you know, and this is something
00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:32.900
that I've done that a lot of my, uh, my peers
00:36:32.900 --> 00:36:35.920
are doing, which is what, what is in your control?
00:36:35.980 --> 00:36:39.940
Can you Can you activate this passion, this excitement
00:36:39.940 --> 00:36:43.559
for storytelling in other ways in your life that
00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:45.960
you find fulfilling, that take the pressure off
00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:48.780
of what isn't in your control? Like writing,
00:36:48.860 --> 00:36:52.159
like producing. Well, yeah. I mean, did you feel
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:54.960
from living in L .A. or going from Kingston to
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:59.659
L .A. to Toronto? Right. It was more like Kingston,
00:36:59.940 --> 00:37:02.800
Glasgow, Kingston, Toronto, Vancouver, Toronto,
00:37:02.980 --> 00:37:08.480
L .A., Toronto. Prince George, Toronto, LA again,
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:14.440
Vancouver, Toronto, LA, Costa Rica, Toronto.
00:37:14.980 --> 00:37:17.500
I'm done. Oh my God. There's too many places.
00:37:18.019 --> 00:37:20.599
That's the way too many places. I mean, did you
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:24.960
find from all that travel that like, did it,
00:37:24.980 --> 00:37:26.880
because I'm assuming that was also all trying
00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:29.619
to pursue some sort of form of arts and sort
00:37:29.619 --> 00:37:31.659
of see where that, or was that just sort of like
00:37:31.659 --> 00:37:36.329
self journey? It was not. I felt so caught, trapped
00:37:36.329 --> 00:37:39.710
in this singular pursuit. Like, I think the first
00:37:39.710 --> 00:37:41.050
time that I was like, I just need to do something
00:37:41.050 --> 00:37:43.889
else was when I've been living in Toronto for
00:37:43.889 --> 00:37:45.949
a couple of years. I had my first agent. I was
00:37:45.949 --> 00:37:50.829
trying. I was in acting classes. And I felt like
00:37:50.829 --> 00:37:56.510
I was stuck in this rhythm of life. And I knew
00:37:56.510 --> 00:38:00.849
that I had to change something. And I think sometimes
00:38:00.849 --> 00:38:05.599
my impulse. is just to really forcibly start
00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:08.440
a new chapter. And often that is physical relocation
00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:10.820
or seeking out like an extreme experience where
00:38:10.820 --> 00:38:13.380
I'm forced to build new, like I went tree planting.
00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:16.980
So I lived out in the bush off the grid in a
00:38:16.980 --> 00:38:21.840
tent, planted trees every day, all day. They
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:23.719
dropped me off at a plot of land. It was just
00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:28.489
like, I wanted to kind of give myself. very tactile
00:38:28.489 --> 00:38:31.769
experience of working hard or working towards
00:38:31.769 --> 00:38:36.210
a goal because I just felt so like I'm like I'm
00:38:36.210 --> 00:38:38.269
in I'm in the city I'm available for auditions
00:38:38.269 --> 00:38:42.389
I'm taking classes I I'm I'm living here I'm
00:38:42.389 --> 00:38:44.349
making money so I can afford the headshots and
00:38:44.349 --> 00:38:47.989
like all of this but but it just feels like this
00:38:47.989 --> 00:38:50.650
cycle of inaction even though you're doing everything
00:38:50.650 --> 00:38:55.349
you can and I wanted to have some like concrete
00:38:56.550 --> 00:38:59.650
satisfaction or accomplishment and getting paid
00:38:59.650 --> 00:39:01.869
per tree and figuring out how to plant more trees
00:39:01.869 --> 00:39:07.010
is so concrete. And then I think that it kind
00:39:07.010 --> 00:39:12.650
of broke away this focus of needing the affirmation
00:39:12.650 --> 00:39:14.809
in the way that I thought I did in my career.
00:39:14.949 --> 00:39:17.349
And then I came back and I felt more relaxed
00:39:17.349 --> 00:39:20.110
and I was able to connect to the work with more
00:39:20.110 --> 00:39:23.289
joy. I got a different agent. I booked my first
00:39:23.289 --> 00:39:26.880
like bigger acting role. And there's this pattern
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:29.380
where I feel like I get too fixated on something
00:39:29.380 --> 00:39:34.079
or one idea of success and I need to break it
00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:38.480
up in order to remind myself what else I love
00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:40.460
about life, about the world, what I'm capable
00:39:40.460 --> 00:39:43.480
of, just to like really shock myself out of something.
00:39:44.619 --> 00:39:47.280
Yeah, because I mean, like, you know, how long
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:49.119
have you sort of like solidly lived in Toronto
00:39:49.119 --> 00:39:56.309
now? Well, 2013 was when I moved here. And then,
00:39:56.329 --> 00:39:59.690
yeah, I've left for months, even a year at a
00:39:59.690 --> 00:40:03.050
time. Yeah. And then come back. And it's sort
00:40:03.050 --> 00:40:04.969
of feeling more and more like home. Yeah. Yeah,
00:40:05.070 --> 00:40:07.570
definitely. I mean, you know, and it's sort of
00:40:07.570 --> 00:40:09.829
interesting because, you know, you're not fully
00:40:09.829 --> 00:40:13.289
at all Canadian. Well, I mean, I am. I was born
00:40:13.289 --> 00:40:15.590
here. But yeah, I'm not. My dad's American. He
00:40:15.590 --> 00:40:17.530
grew up in Illinois. My mom's British. She grew
00:40:17.530 --> 00:40:20.969
up in London. They ended up on Vancouver Island.
00:40:21.630 --> 00:40:25.889
And yeah, so there was this sense of, you know,
00:40:25.889 --> 00:40:29.989
I'm very I'm lucky I can live in the States.
00:40:30.190 --> 00:40:33.510
I have an American passport. So I have that option
00:40:33.510 --> 00:40:37.570
available to me. But I don't feel I think I appreciate
00:40:37.570 --> 00:40:41.409
as I get older and especially in this political
00:40:41.409 --> 00:40:45.349
landscape. Yeah. I appreciate being able to call
00:40:45.349 --> 00:40:48.610
Canada home and the lifestyle that I'm able to
00:40:48.610 --> 00:40:52.360
have here. And I don't take that for granted.
00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:56.800
But I don't feel particularly Canadian. I don't
00:40:56.800 --> 00:41:01.260
feel like a strong connection with a Canadian
00:41:01.260 --> 00:41:02.980
culture. But I'm trying to form that and create
00:41:02.980 --> 00:41:05.760
that and identify that. Because, I mean, you
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:09.860
know, that's, you know, like such an interesting
00:41:09.860 --> 00:41:12.480
thing of like sort of being like, oh, I'm. multitude
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:15.320
of things even though i'm born here it also honestly
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:18.280
just is such a mind fuck to identify with a country
00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:21.400
i don't get it as if a country like involves
00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:24.039
a bunch of traits that a bunch of people share
00:41:24.039 --> 00:41:26.880
like i mean you look at canada it's like it's
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:28.739
not even like there's no language that we all
00:41:28.739 --> 00:41:31.239
share there's no like are there there are some
00:41:31.239 --> 00:41:34.710
general values that we share i would say but
00:41:34.710 --> 00:41:37.070
it's not because we're Canadian. Well, you know,
00:41:37.130 --> 00:41:39.070
like, okay, so since moving here and one of the
00:41:39.070 --> 00:41:42.369
biggest things I've managed to unteach a lot
00:41:42.369 --> 00:41:44.750
of people, a lot of my friends. Is that Canadians
00:41:44.750 --> 00:41:49.389
live in igloos? Well, no, they do. But no, but
00:41:49.389 --> 00:41:53.909
like the sheer politeness, like, so in Australia,
00:41:53.949 --> 00:41:56.230
like confrontation is like, if you have a problem
00:41:56.230 --> 00:41:58.320
with someone, you will... hash it out you'll
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:01.119
just be like oh okay i didn't like how you phrased
00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:04.099
that like let's talk it out here people's politeness
00:42:04.099 --> 00:42:06.039
kicks the better of them and they just get salty
00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:08.800
and i've noticed in some sections i'm like oh
00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:12.239
my god shut the fuck up and just like relax yeah
00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:14.960
it's like relax just talk about it but i do notice
00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:18.400
that like being the thing of like oh you know
00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:21.670
people don't They don't really like nod it out.
00:42:21.789 --> 00:42:23.730
Like they just kind of like. Yeah, I think like
00:42:23.730 --> 00:42:28.269
politeness can be conflated with a non -confrontational
00:42:28.269 --> 00:42:31.590
sort of attitude. I like that you say that with
00:42:31.590 --> 00:42:33.829
hands. My hands are sort of off to the side.
00:42:33.889 --> 00:42:36.250
I'm like, over there, please. Like, don't come
00:42:36.250 --> 00:42:40.389
at me with that heat. Yeah. There's like something
00:42:40.389 --> 00:42:42.690
about the British sensibility in there, too.
00:42:42.789 --> 00:42:44.869
And I understand this from my mom and my grandmother.
00:42:46.489 --> 00:42:51.789
like there is a social facing facade and to show
00:42:51.789 --> 00:42:56.550
too much emotion can be considered rude. Yeah.
00:42:56.969 --> 00:42:59.389
Which is, well, that's really interesting to
00:42:59.389 --> 00:43:03.050
me because like having ADHD. Oh my God. It's
00:43:03.050 --> 00:43:04.670
a rollercoaster. Oh, we haven't gone there. Yeah.
00:43:04.670 --> 00:43:08.110
We're going down that road. Do other people feel
00:43:08.110 --> 00:43:10.150
things? Why don't, why are they falling apart
00:43:10.150 --> 00:43:13.030
every second? I mean, did you sort of like work
00:43:13.030 --> 00:43:15.449
out? As well, your brain was like wired very
00:43:15.449 --> 00:43:17.210
differently at a certain age. Were you just like,
00:43:17.210 --> 00:43:18.750
oh my God. No, I just thought I had really bad
00:43:18.750 --> 00:43:20.650
personality traits. I just thought there was
00:43:20.650 --> 00:43:24.369
a lot wrong with me. So when did it clock? It
00:43:24.369 --> 00:43:26.349
just got out of control. It just got out of hand.
00:43:27.070 --> 00:43:32.230
And I think I like, yeah, it was after COVID,
00:43:32.369 --> 00:43:35.630
like, you know, left LA. It was like, what is
00:43:35.630 --> 00:43:40.250
life? Just L .A. A relationship fell apart. Yeah.
00:43:40.610 --> 00:43:44.190
And then I think I met this girl on Hinge who
00:43:44.190 --> 00:43:46.170
was a therapist and we didn't end up dating.
00:43:46.429 --> 00:43:48.190
I love that you met her on Hinge though. But
00:43:48.190 --> 00:43:51.090
she like gently introduced the idea that therapy
00:43:51.090 --> 00:43:55.329
can be a good idea that maybe like it's so funny
00:43:55.329 --> 00:43:57.699
because after the fact like. My best friends
00:43:57.699 --> 00:44:00.059
have ADHD. The people that I've dated have ADHD.
00:44:00.219 --> 00:44:03.059
I had no fucking clue. Which is amazing. But
00:44:03.059 --> 00:44:05.860
this girl was like, hey, like not not diagnosing
00:44:05.860 --> 00:44:08.780
it by any way, but like, hey, have you have you
00:44:08.780 --> 00:44:10.920
thought about this? And I was like, no, not at
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:14.420
all. What? No, because I was oh, I don't know.
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:16.940
I like I did my homework. Like, yeah, I procrastinated.
00:44:16.940 --> 00:44:18.840
I went to the last minute and then I like just
00:44:18.840 --> 00:44:20.659
didn't take classes. I wasn't interested in and
00:44:20.659 --> 00:44:23.039
heavily pursued my interests and then just like
00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:27.460
argued a lot. But so what? Everyone's just like,
00:44:27.500 --> 00:44:29.340
Nicolette, what are you doing? He's like, nothing.
00:44:29.739 --> 00:44:31.860
Fine. Oh, sorry. I was in my imagination thinking
00:44:31.860 --> 00:44:34.420
about this fantasy book that I read. Excuse me.
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:36.599
It's Lord of the Rings. I must return. I must
00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:39.960
return to Lord of the Rings in my mind. Literally
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:42.219
all the time. I'm like, I don't want to be present.
00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:44.960
I would rather be in my imagination. Mordor.
00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:48.559
Where shall I be? I mean, honestly, that is the
00:44:48.559 --> 00:44:50.820
key. I mean, like, it's also like, I remember.
00:44:51.699 --> 00:44:53.679
you know, like, you know, being a kid in the
00:44:53.679 --> 00:44:55.659
nineties as well. It's like, you know, sort of
00:44:55.659 --> 00:44:58.559
uncommon, but I think also when, you know, like,
00:45:00.039 --> 00:45:02.900
It was more diagnosable in boys than it was in
00:45:02.900 --> 00:45:05.280
girls. Yeah, the hyperactivity. Oh, yeah. But
00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:06.980
it's like, you know, teaching kids now, which
00:45:06.980 --> 00:45:09.280
is something I do, I notice it and clock it in
00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:12.219
young girls like so quickly. I'm like, you, like.
00:45:12.320 --> 00:45:14.599
They're like a little bit spaced out. They're
00:45:14.599 --> 00:45:18.280
so spaced out. Yeah. But they do. And this is
00:45:18.280 --> 00:45:21.139
something that we're socialized very quickly
00:45:21.139 --> 00:45:26.639
to. to perform yeah and i think this is where
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:30.039
i felt so confused and at a loss where i felt
00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:33.380
like i was i was missing the signals yeah i wasn't
00:45:33.380 --> 00:45:35.960
performing the right thing socially all the time
00:45:35.960 --> 00:45:39.440
i felt very um i felt a lot of confusion and
00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:42.920
shame yeah and and but then we just hide that
00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:44.380
in course correct because i thought i was doing
00:45:44.380 --> 00:45:46.940
something wrong did you did that affect your
00:45:46.940 --> 00:45:50.969
dating Yeah. I like that you said that with like.
00:45:51.389 --> 00:45:54.489
I think, I mean, first of all, I think about
00:45:54.489 --> 00:45:56.650
like my first relationships and I was drawn to
00:45:56.650 --> 00:46:02.170
like very extreme people, I would say. The first
00:46:02.170 --> 00:46:05.449
person that I dated had a serious mental health
00:46:05.449 --> 00:46:07.869
crisis. Oh, wow. Right around the time that we
00:46:07.869 --> 00:46:10.230
broke up and it was like, and I didn't see it
00:46:10.230 --> 00:46:14.510
coming. But I think I was drawn to the intensity
00:46:14.510 --> 00:46:20.650
of his personality. But aside from that, I think
00:46:20.650 --> 00:46:23.650
it affected my dating in just my willingness
00:46:23.650 --> 00:46:27.690
to date. Like I was interested in meeting people
00:46:27.690 --> 00:46:29.969
and dating. But the idea of a relationship felt
00:46:29.969 --> 00:46:34.730
stifling and confusing and confronting. Because
00:46:34.730 --> 00:46:36.750
when you're in a relationship, what you're really
00:46:36.750 --> 00:46:39.070
confronting is yourself and how you affect other
00:46:39.070 --> 00:46:44.400
people and why. If I hurt someone because I say
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:47.000
something before I think or I think I'm being
00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:49.280
normal and they're off put by something that
00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:51.480
I'm doing. I don't know, like even like a stim
00:46:51.480 --> 00:46:54.599
or something physical or a little habit, like
00:46:54.599 --> 00:46:58.800
you're confronted by all of that. And I think
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:01.960
I couldn't handle that very well until I knew
00:47:01.960 --> 00:47:06.820
myself better. Wow. Yeah, that's very relatable.
00:47:07.780 --> 00:47:12.739
I would hope so. If you're, you know, if you
00:47:12.739 --> 00:47:14.360
want to have a healthy relationship and be able
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:17.699
to be vulnerable with your partner and be accountable
00:47:17.699 --> 00:47:20.099
for your own shit. I think, yeah. Yeah. It's
00:47:20.099 --> 00:47:21.940
like, well, I think it's also like just tanking
00:47:21.940 --> 00:47:24.679
ownership, which I mean, like, you know, that's
00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:27.440
because I think with my ADHD as well, it's like
00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:31.460
it just made me like my therapist. I started
00:47:31.460 --> 00:47:36.519
going to therapy when I was 26 or 25. And I and.
00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:41.719
It was a real like, my therapist described it
00:47:41.719 --> 00:47:44.199
as wounded birds of me trying to fix people,
00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:47.900
which was a really good thing to kind of like
00:47:47.900 --> 00:47:50.119
clarify. Like you were drawn to wounded people?
00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:53.320
Yeah, I was drawn to wounded people to fix. And
00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:56.780
there is always like, I have a much better mental
00:47:56.780 --> 00:47:59.139
health stance of like, that's your problems,
00:47:59.139 --> 00:48:01.739
not mine. In the kindest way possible. In the
00:48:01.739 --> 00:48:04.539
kindest way. I have empathy, but. I can't fix
00:48:04.539 --> 00:48:07.960
everything. But, you know, like there was a serious
00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:09.940
time where it's like, you know, I had I have
00:48:09.940 --> 00:48:12.400
had two abusive relationships and that was really
00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:17.260
kind of like one was very physically toxic and
00:48:17.260 --> 00:48:19.199
emotionally toxic. The other one was just emotionally
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:22.199
toxic. But it was just like both of them had
00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:24.219
elements where you're like, oh, my God, fuck.
00:48:24.380 --> 00:48:27.800
Like, what's why is this? And you don't realize
00:48:27.800 --> 00:48:32.230
kind of like that. ADHD, like the social norms
00:48:32.230 --> 00:48:35.429
or like the normalization is to kind of be like,
00:48:35.550 --> 00:48:39.929
oh, okay, I need to be, you know, everyone's
00:48:39.929 --> 00:48:41.710
telling me I need to be this. So I'm going to
00:48:41.710 --> 00:48:44.530
be this. And there, you know, did you feel like
00:48:44.530 --> 00:48:47.230
when you dated people, you were like, oh, they're
00:48:47.230 --> 00:48:49.269
telling me to be this or I'm just going to chameleonize
00:48:49.269 --> 00:48:53.989
myself into that form and then be unhappy? Hmm.
00:48:54.329 --> 00:48:57.110
I don't know. I mean, may I ask, like, what do
00:48:57.110 --> 00:48:59.130
you think you got out of that? Like, why were
00:48:59.130 --> 00:49:02.699
you drawn? I that was a great question I mean
00:49:02.699 --> 00:49:06.260
like I I think in hindsight I learned a lot from
00:49:06.260 --> 00:49:08.639
both relationships I think what I was drawn to
00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:14.199
the first relationship um she was just she was
00:49:14.199 --> 00:49:17.639
very independent very charismatic um yeah charismatic
00:49:17.639 --> 00:49:21.340
and um But she was just like, the more I got
00:49:21.340 --> 00:49:23.320
to know her, she was just blatantly rude. And
00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:25.699
it did turn out. Oh, I've been drawn to that
00:49:25.699 --> 00:49:28.039
sort of thing before. Yeah. Where someone seems
00:49:28.039 --> 00:49:30.280
like bold and unapologetic and you're like, I
00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:32.860
want to embody. I think that was a thing that
00:49:32.860 --> 00:49:36.219
often I would date someone where they had some
00:49:36.219 --> 00:49:39.000
quality or something that I kind of wanted to
00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:44.670
absorb into myself or to help me kind of. enter
00:49:44.670 --> 00:49:47.110
a new phase of life like there's like attraction
00:49:47.110 --> 00:49:49.670
and flirtation and and the excitement of meeting
00:49:49.670 --> 00:49:52.269
someone but then i think it was kind of like
00:49:52.269 --> 00:49:56.230
who would i be with this person yeah how do i
00:49:56.230 --> 00:50:00.510
control who i am next in my life in a way maybe
00:50:00.510 --> 00:50:02.929
that was part of it i think i think so it's like
00:50:02.929 --> 00:50:06.210
because you know it you know em and i have now
00:50:06.210 --> 00:50:08.210
been together five and a half years and you know
00:50:08.210 --> 00:50:11.449
like you know there is sort of like people go
00:50:11.449 --> 00:50:13.349
like oh that's such a long time and you know
00:50:13.349 --> 00:50:15.079
like you know, in the grand scheme of things,
00:50:15.179 --> 00:50:16.659
like I know friends who have been together for
00:50:16.659 --> 00:50:20.480
like a lot longer. But you sort of like don't
00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:24.500
really sort of question it as much. And I think
00:50:24.500 --> 00:50:26.139
it's always like healthy to have a relationship
00:50:26.139 --> 00:50:28.900
that challenges you. Because I think also like,
00:50:29.019 --> 00:50:33.119
you know, one of the great things is like we
00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:35.480
both push each other outside of our comfort zones
00:50:35.480 --> 00:50:37.880
to have conversations. We've both been to couple
00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:39.260
counseling. Actually, there was one other thing.
00:50:39.320 --> 00:50:41.780
So when we got married. that was one of the conversations
00:50:41.780 --> 00:50:45.480
that, so our best, one of Em's best friends was
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:48.940
the one who married us. And they've known each
00:50:48.940 --> 00:50:51.300
other since the university. And one of the best
00:50:51.300 --> 00:50:53.500
things she just said was go to a marriage counselor,
00:50:53.559 --> 00:50:56.679
not because you need it, but because it's just
00:50:56.679 --> 00:50:59.699
a useful thing to do every six months to a year.
00:50:59.800 --> 00:51:02.719
Just go back. Not to fix a problem. No, but just
00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:05.460
to continue the conversation, give you tools.
00:51:05.639 --> 00:51:07.500
Yeah. And one of the best things that I used
00:51:07.500 --> 00:51:12.809
to, so anything like, my ADHD was like manifest
00:51:12.809 --> 00:51:15.210
sometimes in anxiety, which is, you know, like
00:51:15.210 --> 00:51:18.590
is the feeling of purpose and feeling of like,
00:51:18.630 --> 00:51:22.210
I need to do this to achieve said goal. Cause
00:51:22.210 --> 00:51:24.250
I'm not doing enough. I'm not doing enough. What's
00:51:24.250 --> 00:51:26.230
next? What's next? Thinking future all the time.
00:51:26.269 --> 00:51:28.590
Yeah. Yeah. You know exactly where, but it's
00:51:28.590 --> 00:51:31.230
like, and so I, that we were talking, we were
00:51:31.230 --> 00:51:32.650
in bed and we were having this conversation.
00:51:32.849 --> 00:51:35.110
And I remember like distinctly. I was like, oh,
00:51:35.130 --> 00:51:36.769
my God, I feel like this shutdown. I was like,
00:51:36.829 --> 00:51:38.210
I feel like I'm just going to that kid state
00:51:38.210 --> 00:51:40.210
of like I need to shut down. I need to feel like
00:51:40.210 --> 00:51:44.269
small. And I managed to be like, no, no, I'm
00:51:44.269 --> 00:51:45.829
not going to. I'm going to pull myself in. And
00:51:45.829 --> 00:51:48.030
we got that from like the tools of our last therapy
00:51:48.030 --> 00:51:50.250
session. And I remember like Em came to me in
00:51:50.250 --> 00:51:51.610
the morning. She was like, I'm so proud that
00:51:51.610 --> 00:51:54.750
you were able to just like talk to me. and not
00:51:54.750 --> 00:51:57.250
like shut down and may feel bad for shutting
00:51:57.250 --> 00:51:59.190
you down. Like we were able to just like. Like
00:51:59.190 --> 00:52:01.170
the cycle that you get into that you need to
00:52:01.170 --> 00:52:03.309
break. Yeah. And so I think there's like little
00:52:03.309 --> 00:52:06.369
mounds where people, you know, like sort of do,
00:52:06.409 --> 00:52:09.449
I mean, like, do you feel like that's how your
00:52:09.449 --> 00:52:12.409
ADHD manifests as well? Like where you kind of
00:52:12.409 --> 00:52:14.570
get into this state of like, I'm not doing enough
00:52:14.570 --> 00:52:17.630
and I need to. Panic and then paralysis. Yes.
00:52:17.949 --> 00:52:22.409
And it used to, before I was on medication, it
00:52:22.409 --> 00:52:25.690
was. It was very physical and emotional. Like
00:52:25.690 --> 00:52:29.710
I needed a nap every day. I would get very overwhelmed.
00:52:29.949 --> 00:52:33.210
I was very hard on myself. And I would just like,
00:52:33.309 --> 00:52:38.469
I would get very anxious and irritable and then
00:52:38.469 --> 00:52:41.230
sometimes depressed if I was overstimulated.
00:52:41.530 --> 00:52:46.289
And I would just need to, like my system would
00:52:46.289 --> 00:52:49.510
shut down. I slept so much. I slept so much.
00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:53.559
Just because I didn't want to deal with being
00:52:53.559 --> 00:52:59.719
awake. It was too much. And it's not quite suicidal.
00:53:00.139 --> 00:53:03.460
It wasn't suicidal ideation in that way, but
00:53:03.460 --> 00:53:08.360
it was just this longing for not being conscious,
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:11.119
which is so funny because I love being conscious.
00:53:11.159 --> 00:53:13.679
I love my brain the way it works. I love the
00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:15.960
world, perceiving things, experiencing new things,
00:53:16.019 --> 00:53:17.909
but I didn't know how to. put it all together
00:53:17.909 --> 00:53:19.469
and formulate it. And I didn't know what I was
00:53:19.469 --> 00:53:21.590
doing wrong. I just felt like I was falling behind
00:53:21.590 --> 00:53:25.730
always. And when I started taking medication,
00:53:26.010 --> 00:53:30.409
it truly was night and day. It was just like
00:53:30.409 --> 00:53:36.090
this veil of cobwebs was lifted. And something
00:53:36.090 --> 00:53:39.010
as simple as getting out of bed and brushing
00:53:39.010 --> 00:53:41.070
my teeth and washing my face or like making a
00:53:41.070 --> 00:53:43.530
cup of coffee, like the very simple first step
00:53:43.530 --> 00:53:46.710
to start your day. I could just think to do it
00:53:46.710 --> 00:53:51.550
and do it. And I hadn't experienced that. I like
00:53:51.550 --> 00:53:56.510
to do the simplest thing felt like this circuitous
00:53:56.510 --> 00:53:59.670
journey. And I would have all these intentions
00:53:59.670 --> 00:54:03.230
and plans for the day. And suddenly I was just
00:54:03.230 --> 00:54:07.670
like curled up in a ball. Yeah. Why didn't I
00:54:07.670 --> 00:54:11.829
do anything? I'm capable. I'm smart. Like, why?
00:54:15.670 --> 00:54:18.329
Anyways, I, yeah, I'm really grateful for meditation,
00:54:18.610 --> 00:54:20.590
medication and meditation. I don't meditate enough.
00:54:21.090 --> 00:54:24.050
For me, like walking is meditation. I think walking
00:54:24.050 --> 00:54:27.670
is good meditation. Yeah. I don't like long showers.
00:54:28.050 --> 00:54:30.389
Really? You're a short shower. I hate long showers.
00:54:30.409 --> 00:54:33.880
It's so boring. I'll take a bath. Oh, I do like
00:54:33.880 --> 00:54:35.960
a bath. But yeah, just people like to meditate
00:54:35.960 --> 00:54:38.219
in the shower. And I'm like, I get it. It's so,
00:54:38.340 --> 00:54:40.019
it's so much like I can, it's too much. It's
00:54:40.019 --> 00:54:41.699
like water on my head pounding. And then all
00:54:41.699 --> 00:54:44.059
the acoustics of being in the shower, I think
00:54:44.059 --> 00:54:46.400
is too much stimulation. I think I 100%, that
00:54:46.400 --> 00:54:48.539
is the most ADHD thing you've said. Oh, I'm sorry.
00:54:48.619 --> 00:54:52.780
High water pressure. No, thank you. Ow. Ow. That's
00:54:52.780 --> 00:54:54.579
what I think. I'm like, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow. Is
00:54:54.579 --> 00:54:56.639
that, you're just like, no. I'm like, relax.
00:54:58.059 --> 00:55:00.119
Well, I mean, like, I love that as well, because,
00:55:00.179 --> 00:55:04.510
you know, like I, I find, But what medication
00:55:04.510 --> 00:55:09.510
are you on? Vyvanse. So I didn't. I love that
00:55:09.510 --> 00:55:13.230
you're like, hang on, what? Just a walking Vyvanse
00:55:13.230 --> 00:55:18.250
ad. No one is paying me. They should. I would
00:55:18.250 --> 00:55:23.190
love that. Because I was on Ritalin, which was
00:55:23.190 --> 00:55:28.130
quite conducive. I think I was about. It worked
00:55:28.130 --> 00:55:30.070
for you? And then did you go off of it? I did
00:55:30.070 --> 00:55:35.369
at 17. This is what I've heard that like with
00:55:35.369 --> 00:55:37.329
kids. By heard, I mean like I've listened to
00:55:37.329 --> 00:55:39.150
a million podcasts like everyone else on the
00:55:39.150 --> 00:55:43.469
subject matter. Where if you go on medication
00:55:43.469 --> 00:55:45.210
when you're younger and it works for you and
00:55:45.210 --> 00:55:47.030
it helps, then it just helps you develop those
00:55:47.030 --> 00:55:49.210
habits and kind of rewire your brain. Yeah. And
00:55:49.210 --> 00:55:51.789
then you can go off of it. Yeah. Which makes
00:55:51.789 --> 00:55:54.949
the most sense. But my brain was wired wrong.
00:55:55.070 --> 00:55:58.809
Hang on. Does caffeine wire it even more? Or
00:55:58.809 --> 00:56:01.030
does caffeine dull it? Well, actually, you know.
00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:07.179
To be honest, one of the hints for me was I liked
00:56:07.179 --> 00:56:10.780
cocaine. I was never like a hard partier, but
00:56:10.780 --> 00:56:12.840
I went through a phase and I was like, oh, my
00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:15.659
God, I feel like a normal person right now. Right.
00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:18.980
And I would just like if I went to a social thing
00:56:18.980 --> 00:56:22.880
and did like I never needed to do a lot. It was
00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:25.340
just like it brought me to this level where I
00:56:25.340 --> 00:56:28.280
was like, I'm actually enjoying being here and
00:56:28.280 --> 00:56:31.719
I can engage with people and I'm not like. trapped
00:56:31.719 --> 00:56:35.019
in my mind and i feel like i'm being socially
00:56:35.019 --> 00:56:37.619
kind of normal like depending how much i did
00:56:37.619 --> 00:56:40.340
i guess um but yeah caffeine i don't drink as
00:56:40.340 --> 00:56:42.500
much caffeine as i used to i would be like all
00:56:42.500 --> 00:56:45.960
day coffee and sugar food constant snacking like
00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:49.500
the oral stimulation and the dopamine rush of
00:56:49.500 --> 00:56:53.360
of sugar or like you know those kinds of foods
00:56:53.360 --> 00:56:58.099
um yeah those are sort of my go -to Wow. So now
00:56:58.099 --> 00:57:01.099
it's no longer cocaine. It's just pure sugar.
00:57:01.159 --> 00:57:02.940
No, I don't even need it. You don't need it.
00:57:02.960 --> 00:57:06.079
I don't touch it. I need sugar and caffeine.
00:57:08.079 --> 00:57:11.280
I have taken the choice of healthier lifestyles.
00:57:11.420 --> 00:57:13.880
I mean, you know, like that's such an interesting
00:57:13.880 --> 00:57:15.480
thing as well because like people ask me all
00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:18.900
the time. It's like, oh, you know, like because
00:57:18.900 --> 00:57:20.739
like Ritalin's like a refined version of speed.
00:57:20.980 --> 00:57:23.610
Yeah. They're all just like. kind of the same
00:57:23.610 --> 00:57:25.070
thing yeah i know they're all cut from the i'm
00:57:25.070 --> 00:57:26.449
like when i first went on five months i was like
00:57:26.449 --> 00:57:28.849
it's like diet cocaine am i allowed to feel this
00:57:28.849 --> 00:57:31.690
way well it's like i was like is this wrong yeah
00:57:31.690 --> 00:57:36.469
no and it's so good i mean like i so i'm on fluoxetine
00:57:36.469 --> 00:57:39.150
um which is an anti -anxiety i'm on 10 milligrams
00:57:39.150 --> 00:57:42.840
right yeah um which i have found Helps a lot
00:57:42.840 --> 00:57:46.019
with my ADHD. Yeah. People go like anti -depression,
00:57:46.039 --> 00:57:48.280
anti -anxiety, like whatever it is that helps
00:57:48.280 --> 00:57:50.380
you, their comorbidities. And often it's like
00:57:50.380 --> 00:57:52.599
a chicken and the egg. Yeah. Which is sort of
00:57:52.599 --> 00:57:55.599
always been like the thing where it's like I
00:57:55.599 --> 00:57:57.539
used to be when I was younger, I was a massive
00:57:57.539 --> 00:58:01.260
drinker. So I was like. Uh, like I would go out
00:58:01.260 --> 00:58:03.239
and, you know, the idea of like feeling sort
00:58:03.239 --> 00:58:06.199
of semi -normal was getting drunk and. Okay.
00:58:06.239 --> 00:58:09.079
Yeah. Like you think you were like medicating
00:58:09.079 --> 00:58:10.760
yourself. Yeah. A little bit of like self -medication.
00:58:10.760 --> 00:58:13.860
For social anxiety. Just a social anxiety. And
00:58:13.860 --> 00:58:15.940
I think ADHD overwhelms, like your brain would
00:58:15.940 --> 00:58:18.139
sort of like. Yeah. It cuts out some of the noise.
00:58:18.280 --> 00:58:20.519
Yeah. Oh my God. Like that. And like weed, it,
00:58:20.519 --> 00:58:23.139
it kind of, it, it, like if there's, let's say
00:58:23.139 --> 00:58:25.900
five conversations happening in my brain, it's
00:58:25.900 --> 00:58:28.530
like there's five channels on. Those kind of
00:58:28.530 --> 00:58:31.150
things will just like shut two of them off. Yeah.
00:58:31.599 --> 00:58:33.320
And actually, you know. You're just like, I don't
00:58:33.320 --> 00:58:35.639
want to watch CBC Jam. I just want to watch like.
00:58:35.780 --> 00:58:37.579
I don't have to watch the news in my brain all
00:58:37.579 --> 00:58:39.840
the time. I can actually just watch what's going
00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:41.719
on in front of me. This is a crazy movie. I'm
00:58:41.719 --> 00:58:43.800
present in my life and I can hear and see things
00:58:43.800 --> 00:58:46.159
that are happening in real time. It's so insane.
00:58:46.599 --> 00:58:50.360
This is why also like, you know, as the arts
00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:52.440
in general, it's like anyone who, you know, there's
00:58:52.440 --> 00:58:54.039
always like this theory of like the analytical
00:58:54.039 --> 00:58:56.480
brain, normal people are the producers. And then
00:58:56.480 --> 00:58:59.179
everyone else is like an ADHD or like autistic.
00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:02.179
uh mindfuck everywhere else because we're we
00:59:02.179 --> 00:59:04.780
all are we're all sort of like eclectically weird
00:59:04.780 --> 00:59:10.440
um and I I mean like did you do you feel like
00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:14.159
also you know and and by the way Australia like
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:16.940
one of the craziest things is like you know weed
00:59:16.940 --> 00:59:18.699
is legal here so it's not legal in Australia
00:59:18.699 --> 00:59:21.500
like sorry kid I mean it should it should be
00:59:21.500 --> 00:59:24.480
um I agree with that I think it's like give it
00:59:24.480 --> 00:59:28.250
a choice like you know um But it's sort of funny
00:59:28.250 --> 00:59:31.030
now as an adult, because like, you know, if people
00:59:31.030 --> 00:59:33.650
like, if I said to someone, let's grab a drink,
00:59:33.710 --> 00:59:35.449
you know, like I get the... Oh, how many people
00:59:35.449 --> 00:59:37.510
are sober and not drinking? Yeah, like so many
00:59:37.510 --> 00:59:40.469
people... Or California sober. Yeah, which is
00:59:40.469 --> 00:59:42.829
so weird. I'm like, I love a drink, you know,
00:59:42.829 --> 00:59:45.829
give me like an old fashioned, like, you know,
00:59:45.829 --> 00:59:49.449
a good cocktail, I'm there. But, you know, it's
00:59:49.449 --> 00:59:53.829
the thing of like, you know, that sort of like,
00:59:53.909 --> 00:59:58.170
almost like mental stim. Of like, oh, okay, a
00:59:58.170 --> 00:59:59.769
little bit of weed. We'll also kind of like,
00:59:59.849 --> 01:00:01.690
as you said, switch off those channels. Yeah.
01:00:01.809 --> 01:00:04.730
And all those things. And I remember like my
01:00:04.730 --> 01:00:06.949
doctor many years ago was like, oh, have you
01:00:06.949 --> 01:00:09.369
ever tried recreational drugs? Obviously remembering
01:00:09.369 --> 01:00:12.269
in Australia's band. And I was like, you know,
01:00:12.289 --> 01:00:14.469
at the time I was like, oh no. But I was like,
01:00:14.510 --> 01:00:19.059
I actually had. And sorry, mom, I have. I mean,
01:00:19.079 --> 01:00:20.840
like, okay, so two things she said she never
01:00:20.840 --> 01:00:23.699
wanted me to do was do drugs and smoke. I've
01:00:23.699 --> 01:00:25.440
done both those things. Like, drugs is such a
01:00:25.440 --> 01:00:27.239
broad category. I know, there's a lot of drugs.
01:00:27.260 --> 01:00:28.719
I'm not going to do heroin. I'm not going to
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:30.659
do it. But I would try most things. I would try
01:00:30.659 --> 01:00:31.920
most things. I think everyone should try shrooms.
01:00:32.239 --> 01:00:35.360
I agree. Small micro doses. Like, start small.
01:00:36.300 --> 01:00:39.019
Don't go into, like, the white dragon or, like,
01:00:39.019 --> 01:00:42.000
you know, was it? No. Yeah. Ayahuasca, no. No.
01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:46.019
No need. But, you know, like, in all honesty,
01:00:46.139 --> 01:00:49.099
like, I remember, like, I have a highly addictive
01:00:49.099 --> 01:00:52.239
personality, which I will wear. ADHD does that.
01:00:52.760 --> 01:00:56.519
And I remember I've got friends who smoke. I've
01:00:56.519 --> 01:00:59.079
got many friends who smoke. And they're like,
01:00:59.219 --> 01:01:00.880
how have you avoided it? And I'm like, because
01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:03.760
I don't buy. It's the one thing that I don't
01:01:03.760 --> 01:01:06.579
do because if it's not there, but I also do it
01:01:06.579 --> 01:01:09.119
for social. Like if I'm out with friends, yeah,
01:01:09.199 --> 01:01:13.179
I'll have a cigarette. But it's like not my first
01:01:13.179 --> 01:01:16.199
thought. To be like, oh, okay, I'm going to be
01:01:16.199 --> 01:01:18.659
like everything. I was like, maybe two drinks
01:01:18.659 --> 01:01:21.039
in, I might be like, yeah, I'm going to go out
01:01:21.039 --> 01:01:22.800
for a smoke with a friend. And I have done that
01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:25.239
with like a few friends, like since being here
01:01:25.239 --> 01:01:27.400
and it's like, cool, whatever. But it was kind
01:01:27.400 --> 01:01:30.739
of like that thing of like, you know, you don't
01:01:30.739 --> 01:01:32.539
get overly stressed about it. And, you know,
01:01:32.539 --> 01:01:34.079
you know, but I remember like as a kid, I was
01:01:34.079 --> 01:01:37.349
like. Well, it's also when you haven't tried
01:01:37.349 --> 01:01:41.590
anything as I'm a big proponent of trying things
01:01:41.590 --> 01:01:44.570
and knowing your boundaries, like really knowing
01:01:44.570 --> 01:01:46.849
them because you've met your boundary or gone
01:01:46.849 --> 01:01:49.550
a bit past. And like, I don't know, maybe that's
01:01:49.550 --> 01:01:52.929
not for everyone, but I'm like, you learn by
01:01:52.929 --> 01:01:55.610
making a mistake, you're going to remember that
01:01:55.610 --> 01:01:57.949
lesson. Right. But if it's all hypothetical and
01:01:57.949 --> 01:02:00.369
like when you're young, everything is. Big and
01:02:00.369 --> 01:02:02.670
scary and either way better or way worse than
01:02:02.670 --> 01:02:05.210
it actually is going to be when you experience
01:02:05.210 --> 01:02:10.170
it because it is fantasy. Well, yeah. And yeah,
01:02:10.289 --> 01:02:13.070
and I think knowing your boundaries and knowing
01:02:13.070 --> 01:02:17.489
your struggles and your tendencies is kind of
01:02:17.489 --> 01:02:20.869
the challenge. Well, I think like, you know,
01:02:20.889 --> 01:02:26.489
the thing of like just going back to doing those
01:02:26.489 --> 01:02:28.940
things as kids. Instead of being like, you know,
01:02:28.960 --> 01:02:31.619
oh, okay, you know, if you don't push yourself
01:02:31.619 --> 01:02:33.420
out of your comfort zone, you're never going
01:02:33.420 --> 01:02:36.179
to really try anything and do anything. Like,
01:02:36.179 --> 01:02:39.659
you know, one of my favorite things to now teach
01:02:39.659 --> 01:02:42.489
is teach sport to kids. which is like, yeah,
01:02:42.769 --> 01:02:46.690
I teach Australian football and cricket. But
01:02:46.690 --> 01:02:49.090
I hated sports growing up. I used to think it
01:02:49.090 --> 01:02:50.489
was the dumbest thing ever. Yeah, it was too
01:02:50.489 --> 01:02:54.829
bad. And now I love it. I think like the whole
01:02:54.829 --> 01:02:56.730
competitiveness makes sense. I don't like it
01:02:56.730 --> 01:02:58.510
when it's overly competitive. I don't like when
01:02:58.510 --> 01:03:00.389
people are like, this team sucks. And I'm like,
01:03:00.429 --> 01:03:02.489
they're a good team. I'm like, literally, we're
01:03:02.489 --> 01:03:04.849
writing a script about that, me and my partner.
01:03:04.949 --> 01:03:07.349
It's like very top of mind for me. Well, I think
01:03:07.349 --> 01:03:11.179
it's like, you know, we, so. So there is something
01:03:11.179 --> 01:03:13.699
that I remember. So I had a co -worker in Australia
01:03:13.699 --> 01:03:17.880
who grew up and raised in Vancouver. And I remember
01:03:17.880 --> 01:03:19.880
before I moved here, he was like, you have to
01:03:19.880 --> 01:03:21.639
get into like baseball and hockey. And I was
01:03:21.639 --> 01:03:23.300
like, what are you talking about? Hockey? Yeah,
01:03:23.300 --> 01:03:25.079
I know. Literally, I just wrote hockey. I'm like.
01:03:25.530 --> 01:03:27.130
You don't need to play hockey. It's a very expensive
01:03:27.130 --> 01:03:29.889
sport to play. It's a very expensive sport. But
01:03:29.889 --> 01:03:33.050
look, heated rivalry made it a great and interesting
01:03:33.050 --> 01:03:37.610
sport. Oh, we know. The full eroticism of that
01:03:37.610 --> 01:03:40.710
shot. You know that my partner is like an ex
01:03:40.710 --> 01:03:44.929
-pro hockey player. Really? Yeah. You finished
01:03:44.929 --> 01:03:47.090
your story, but I'm like, it's like I'm learning
01:03:47.090 --> 01:03:49.590
so much about hockey and I have so much respect
01:03:49.590 --> 01:03:52.760
for the sport. Oh, I do. But I'm like, why? The
01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:56.579
fuck? Do you know that it's so funny? I did not
01:03:56.579 --> 01:03:59.059
put two and two together. So that probably, but
01:03:59.059 --> 01:04:01.699
it's like, it's so, it's, you know, like I work
01:04:01.699 --> 01:04:05.920
with one of my friends who I work with is also,
01:04:05.960 --> 01:04:10.500
he played and still does sort of semi play. He
01:04:10.500 --> 01:04:12.940
doesn't play as religiously anymore, but he like,
01:04:13.059 --> 01:04:16.659
he was like, fuck, it's like really, it's exhausting.
01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:19.380
It's fun, but it's a very intense, it's a very
01:04:19.380 --> 01:04:22.659
intense sport. And I think, You know, it's the
01:04:22.659 --> 01:04:26.440
one of the funniest things was like when seeing
01:04:26.440 --> 01:04:29.760
my first match and like, you know, it's the Leafs
01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:34.019
versus the New York Rangers. And I was like,
01:04:34.039 --> 01:04:36.010
oh, okay. the New York Rangers are probably going
01:04:36.010 --> 01:04:38.289
to win. Because this is the expectation you go
01:04:38.289 --> 01:04:40.469
in with. New York is bigger, badder. Well, it's
01:04:40.469 --> 01:04:42.889
also, you know that the Toronto Leafs are going
01:04:42.889 --> 01:04:45.289
to be sort of semi, okay, it's 50 -50 really
01:04:45.289 --> 01:04:47.590
most days. But I remember everyone was like,
01:04:47.710 --> 01:04:50.769
I remember like going in thinking, God, it's
01:04:50.769 --> 01:04:52.789
going to suck this game. And they got a penalty
01:04:52.789 --> 01:04:54.710
shot at the end and they won, like the Leafs
01:04:54.710 --> 01:04:56.570
won. But I remember it's so funny because we
01:04:56.570 --> 01:04:58.170
all cheered and we all like, you know, like,
01:04:58.230 --> 01:04:59.750
but there was the team behind it. It was just
01:04:59.750 --> 01:05:02.269
as the World Series was happening and the Blue
01:05:02.269 --> 01:05:03.809
Jays were about to get in the World Series. So
01:05:03.809 --> 01:05:05.500
it was before. anyone knew it was before that
01:05:05.500 --> 01:05:07.539
disappointment that they lost and everything
01:05:07.539 --> 01:05:09.440
it was before anyone knew i remember there was
01:05:09.440 --> 01:05:12.960
this group of men behind us who just kept going
01:05:12.960 --> 01:05:16.340
you suck to the main police like really loudly
01:05:16.340 --> 01:05:19.500
but then they would be like go blue jays go and
01:05:19.500 --> 01:05:23.000
like starting to like so bizarre to me so weird
01:05:23.000 --> 01:05:26.099
i don't understand the Sport fan. It's like I'm
01:05:26.099 --> 01:05:27.500
nodding. You're like, you know, was that time
01:05:27.500 --> 01:05:30.079
before the Blue Jays? And I'm like, I have no
01:05:30.079 --> 01:05:32.139
fucking idea what you're talking about. I'm like,
01:05:32.159 --> 01:05:33.920
was this last year? Was this five years ago?
01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:36.559
Was this 25 years ago? You were like the Leafs
01:05:36.559 --> 01:05:38.739
and I was like, wait, is Leafs hockey? Did he
01:05:38.739 --> 01:05:40.320
just get that? Did they just get that? I was
01:05:40.320 --> 01:05:43.719
like, I have no fucking idea. I don't keep track
01:05:43.719 --> 01:05:46.800
of that stuff. That's so funny. But I actually
01:05:46.800 --> 01:05:48.579
want to go back because when you're talking about
01:05:48.579 --> 01:05:51.579
sports, you're talking about kids. Yeah. And
01:05:51.579 --> 01:05:53.889
I do. I just want to retrace it for a second
01:05:53.889 --> 01:05:56.690
because I'd done my experimenting as an adult.
01:05:57.550 --> 01:06:01.829
And I think with kids, like I'm not like, go
01:06:01.829 --> 01:06:04.170
out and try things when you're young. And because
01:06:04.170 --> 01:06:07.429
I think that there is this really delicate phase
01:06:07.429 --> 01:06:09.489
where your brain is still developing and you're
01:06:09.489 --> 01:06:12.989
figuring out who you are. And you're so you're
01:06:12.989 --> 01:06:15.590
more vulnerable to social pressure also. And
01:06:15.590 --> 01:06:18.150
I do think that sport like I'm really grateful
01:06:18.150 --> 01:06:22.670
that I was busy as a kid. Like I was. I was in
01:06:22.670 --> 01:06:25.650
every fucking club or I played every sport. I
01:06:25.650 --> 01:06:27.789
was like in the plays. I was in the choir. I
01:06:27.789 --> 01:06:30.789
was on the like student council, like the dorkiest
01:06:30.789 --> 01:06:34.949
shit, all of it. But it kept me so busy and discovering
01:06:34.949 --> 01:06:37.610
new things about myself. And I and I do think
01:06:37.610 --> 01:06:42.050
that. And for sports like I my sport was boxing
01:06:42.050 --> 01:06:45.190
is very individual. And I got into that as an
01:06:45.190 --> 01:06:47.510
adult, that sort of intense, intimate kind of
01:06:47.510 --> 01:06:51.559
competition, like one on one in the ring. And
01:06:51.559 --> 01:06:57.099
that has given me so much as an adult. My knees
01:06:57.099 --> 01:07:00.380
are fucked. Like I over -trained and like, and
01:07:00.380 --> 01:07:04.320
whatever. But I do think that sport is incredible.
01:07:04.619 --> 01:07:09.619
And it's amazing when you can get kids to find
01:07:09.619 --> 01:07:11.780
one that works for them, like a sport or an outlet
01:07:11.780 --> 01:07:13.760
or a physical activity that helps them understand
01:07:13.760 --> 01:07:16.079
where to push themselves. Yeah. But I mean, like,
01:07:16.159 --> 01:07:18.260
you know, it is interesting, like, you know.
01:07:18.699 --> 01:07:20.820
that be busy because i think also like when you're
01:07:20.820 --> 01:07:23.739
a teenager and you're going you know like you
01:07:23.739 --> 01:07:25.820
know and your 20s is like everyone's like oh
01:07:25.820 --> 01:07:27.699
you'll figure yourself out in your 20s and then
01:07:27.699 --> 01:07:29.340
you get to your 30s and you're like fuck i haven't
01:07:29.340 --> 01:07:31.099
really figured myself out now i mean like you
01:07:31.099 --> 01:07:33.320
never really fucking figure yourself out i think
01:07:33.320 --> 01:07:35.440
that there is this sort of constant expectation
01:07:35.440 --> 01:07:39.480
when will i arrive when is this my like you're
01:07:39.480 --> 01:07:41.400
looking around you're like is this my adult life
01:07:41.400 --> 01:07:43.539
is this my life is this how i imagined it have
01:07:43.539 --> 01:07:45.400
i gotten there yet where am i going well i think
01:07:45.400 --> 01:07:47.980
it's also like you know we talk about experimentation
01:07:47.980 --> 01:07:52.300
and you're like fuck like you know my coming
01:07:52.300 --> 01:07:55.280
out story was literally in my 20s like you know
01:07:55.280 --> 01:07:57.800
like not even clocking like things in my teens
01:07:57.800 --> 01:08:00.420
yeah i was like i was like what the fuck is going
01:08:00.420 --> 01:08:07.500
on like i remember um you know like dating this
01:08:07.500 --> 01:08:10.619
guy you know into my mid -20s like you know that
01:08:10.619 --> 01:08:13.719
that to me felt like such a late like decision
01:08:13.719 --> 01:08:17.840
versus so many other so many other of my friends
01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:20.739
who were like oh I knew because like you know
01:08:20.739 --> 01:08:23.279
did you have the realization also that people
01:08:23.279 --> 01:08:26.000
kind of clocked that you were a little bit like
01:08:26.000 --> 01:08:29.060
queer and you know that you were or did you sort
01:08:29.060 --> 01:08:31.699
of like take your sweet ass time to get there
01:08:31.699 --> 01:08:36.000
yeah I mean I think there was some like um receiving
01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:40.680
external clues from other people and like a I
01:08:40.680 --> 01:08:42.819
mean I'm part of it I was cast in queer roles
01:08:42.819 --> 01:08:45.140
oh so that's it you were just like oh but I was
01:08:45.140 --> 01:08:48.439
like yeah but I was like I was dating a guy and
01:08:48.439 --> 01:08:52.739
I didn't really like I'm I'm bisexual I knew
01:08:52.739 --> 01:08:55.000
I was attracted to men or at least to some men
01:08:55.000 --> 01:08:57.739
like I was like that exists that's not that doesn't
01:08:57.739 --> 01:09:04.670
feel fake um and I think that I wasn't exploring
01:09:04.670 --> 01:09:07.350
other things in this moment in time, like right
01:09:07.350 --> 01:09:10.529
before I came out, because I was in a relationship.
01:09:10.729 --> 01:09:15.409
But it was playing queer roles and being cast
01:09:15.409 --> 01:09:18.449
as that. And it was before. Now, sometimes in
01:09:18.449 --> 01:09:20.670
the industry, they actually sort of want to check
01:09:20.670 --> 01:09:24.050
if you're queer or not. And sometimes there's
01:09:24.050 --> 01:09:28.189
this delicate dance where they want the representation
01:09:28.189 --> 01:09:36.569
in certain roles. But at the time, it was just
01:09:36.569 --> 01:09:40.029
like, oh, I couldn't imagine what this would
01:09:40.029 --> 01:09:43.649
feel like or what this would be. And I mean,
01:09:43.649 --> 01:09:45.470
that is the challenge. If you can imagine something
01:09:45.470 --> 01:09:47.569
and make it your reality, then you're introducing
01:09:47.569 --> 01:09:50.029
yourself to other ways of living that you wouldn't
01:09:50.029 --> 01:09:53.470
entertain before. And then something resonates
01:09:53.470 --> 01:09:56.829
that you never would have had the chance to acknowledge
01:09:56.829 --> 01:10:01.319
or see. So, yeah, there were clues and there
01:10:01.319 --> 01:10:03.520
were things that I thought about and that I connected
01:10:03.520 --> 01:10:07.560
with. And then it was sort of playing these roles
01:10:07.560 --> 01:10:09.239
and connecting with the queer community that
01:10:09.239 --> 01:10:12.520
really solidified an understanding that that
01:10:12.520 --> 01:10:17.000
is part of who I am. Which I love. I mean, you
01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:20.779
know, did you have the sort of like realization,
01:10:20.899 --> 01:10:23.399
though, as these queer roles were happening and
01:10:23.399 --> 01:10:26.739
just like your brain clocking in to being like...
01:10:27.310 --> 01:10:30.270
the emotional resonance of like where parts of
01:10:30.270 --> 01:10:33.010
your life you had sort of gone, oh shit, I hadn't
01:10:33.010 --> 01:10:35.369
really. Yeah, reframing memories. Yeah, like
01:10:35.369 --> 01:10:37.729
re -looking through parts of your life. Creating
01:10:37.729 --> 01:10:40.569
new fantasy. But I mean, this happens a lot with
01:10:40.569 --> 01:10:43.949
acting for me, at least where every role, like
01:10:43.949 --> 01:10:46.890
the bigger roles that I play do affect me. Yeah.
01:10:48.250 --> 01:10:53.409
And it opens up new ideas or ways of being. Yeah.
01:10:53.470 --> 01:10:58.690
I think it's also like the thing of like, um,
01:10:58.690 --> 01:11:04.329
just what you can do as, uh, as people, you know,
01:11:04.350 --> 01:11:07.609
like one of the, um, you know, the things we
01:11:07.609 --> 01:11:10.670
do. Yeah, I know. I know the things we do, but
01:11:10.670 --> 01:11:14.350
you know, like the, the way we sort of structure
01:11:14.350 --> 01:11:16.869
ourselves and, you know, like the less is more,
01:11:16.970 --> 01:11:19.350
or what can we sort of like piece together from
01:11:19.350 --> 01:11:22.270
like aspects of my life? Because I, I deeply
01:11:22.270 --> 01:11:26.890
had, um, I, you know, always was loving questions.
01:11:26.970 --> 01:11:29.470
Like that was my favorite thing as a kid was
01:11:29.470 --> 01:11:31.689
always to ask people questions, even if it wasn't
01:11:31.689 --> 01:11:34.550
appropriate to questions to ask, but just to
01:11:34.550 --> 01:11:38.750
be like, why this? Why that? And no more. And
01:11:38.750 --> 01:11:41.770
some people would be like, that's too much knowledge.
01:11:41.810 --> 01:11:43.989
But I think like in the arts, it's like really
01:11:43.989 --> 01:11:46.430
prevalent. Like we are, because, you know, like,
01:11:46.510 --> 01:11:50.689
you know, as performers and, you know, we want
01:11:50.689 --> 01:11:54.460
to know. We want to absorb as much. There's a
01:11:54.460 --> 01:11:56.880
really active curiosity. It's something that
01:11:56.880 --> 01:12:00.100
I really love about myself is my curiosity. It
01:12:00.100 --> 01:12:04.039
feels insatiable. And that's a comfort to me.
01:12:04.100 --> 01:12:06.039
It's something that I identify with that I'm
01:12:06.039 --> 01:12:08.840
never like, I'm always going to be wanting to
01:12:08.840 --> 01:12:13.750
learn and understand more. But also. I don't
01:12:13.750 --> 01:12:16.229
know these these attributes like as you as we
01:12:16.229 --> 01:12:19.010
grow up, we start to calcify and define who we
01:12:19.010 --> 01:12:20.970
are in our personality because we have to express
01:12:20.970 --> 01:12:23.789
that to other people. We we use that to sort
01:12:23.789 --> 01:12:26.949
of guide our choices in our behavior. But it
01:12:26.949 --> 01:12:30.149
it's I don't know, maybe it's just being an actor
01:12:30.149 --> 01:12:35.109
really makes me look at it differently. But it
01:12:35.109 --> 01:12:39.050
all feels it's a little bit of a construct. It's
01:12:39.050 --> 01:12:41.810
actually like defense mechanisms and some of
01:12:41.810 --> 01:12:45.109
it is like. completely arbitrary yeah it's like
01:12:45.109 --> 01:12:50.130
we i think there's a danger in identifying too
01:12:50.130 --> 01:12:53.270
much with a personality trait that you have or
01:12:53.270 --> 01:12:55.390
something about yourself that you're like i'm
01:12:55.390 --> 01:12:58.390
this type of person or i do this all the time
01:12:58.390 --> 01:13:02.470
it's like we have power to change our patterns
01:13:02.470 --> 01:13:06.449
of being but we have to define our values at
01:13:06.449 --> 01:13:11.119
a deeper level i think um there's a lot of superficial
01:13:11.119 --> 01:13:14.899
attributes that we become attached to that are
01:13:14.899 --> 01:13:18.680
mutable and we don't realize and i think like
01:13:18.680 --> 01:13:21.439
having adhd and then going on medication and
01:13:21.439 --> 01:13:24.199
realizing that some of these personality flaws
01:13:24.199 --> 01:13:27.420
that i thought i had or or attributes i thought
01:13:27.420 --> 01:13:30.579
there were these i thought i was stuck with some
01:13:30.579 --> 01:13:36.359
ways of being but i wasn't i could form new patterns
01:13:36.359 --> 01:13:39.909
and new habits and some personality traits kind
01:13:39.909 --> 01:13:43.189
of disappeared because they were maybe coping
01:13:43.189 --> 01:13:49.949
mechanisms. Yeah, I just... Anyways, I don't
01:13:49.949 --> 01:13:51.409
know what that tangent was about. No, I love
01:13:51.409 --> 01:13:55.670
it. Becoming an adult? Yeah, well, I mean, do
01:13:55.670 --> 01:13:58.369
you feel like you've grown? Do I feel like I'm
01:13:58.369 --> 01:14:00.869
an adult? Why the fuck would you ask me that?
01:14:00.869 --> 01:14:06.109
That is so inappropriate. Yeah, I think I'm arriving
01:14:06.109 --> 01:14:09.350
in my adult era. Yeah. I do that. I do think
01:14:09.350 --> 01:14:12.449
that. I feel less like I need to run away than
01:14:12.449 --> 01:14:15.109
I have at any other point in my life. Which is
01:14:15.109 --> 01:14:19.430
great. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, it scares
01:14:19.430 --> 01:14:21.789
me every so often, like, you know, someone will
01:14:21.789 --> 01:14:23.470
be like, this is adulting or, you know, like,
01:14:23.569 --> 01:14:26.689
whatever. But, you know, like, you know, particularly
01:14:26.689 --> 01:14:33.449
the sort of one attribute that I remember was,
01:14:33.729 --> 01:14:37.170
you know, sort of always looking at, you know,
01:14:37.210 --> 01:14:39.520
like, parents getting older and you know like
01:14:39.520 --> 01:14:42.180
one thing I think was when I look back and like
01:14:42.180 --> 01:14:45.300
my dad when he passed away was sort of like that
01:14:45.300 --> 01:14:47.619
you know has a strange sort of feeling because
01:14:47.619 --> 01:14:50.659
you think the people who brought you into this
01:14:50.659 --> 01:14:52.819
world are immortal and they sort of like are
01:14:52.819 --> 01:14:59.079
like part of your life and they're not they're
01:14:59.079 --> 01:15:01.960
human like everyone else and that to me is suddenly
01:15:01.960 --> 01:15:04.960
like oh you've got to kind of just like adult
01:15:04.960 --> 01:15:08.579
and move on and the real like That was the biggest.
01:15:08.600 --> 01:15:11.319
Because dealing with grief is an adult thing
01:15:11.319 --> 01:15:14.699
to do. Yeah. Is what you're saying. Yeah. Well,
01:15:14.779 --> 01:15:16.979
I think it's like not even that. It's just you
01:15:16.979 --> 01:15:21.819
realize how like how many people and this is
01:15:21.819 --> 01:15:24.260
always such a curiosity thing. It's like you
01:15:24.260 --> 01:15:29.800
realize how many people don't really like adults.
01:15:29.920 --> 01:15:32.319
They just kind of like. They don't like sit and
01:15:32.319 --> 01:15:34.899
deal. They don't deal with whatever. They don't
01:15:34.899 --> 01:15:38.359
deal. No, you can just. avoid you can avoid like
01:15:38.359 --> 01:15:41.680
you can you could go your whole we we all know
01:15:41.680 --> 01:15:46.140
old people like this yes who have shockingly
01:15:46.140 --> 01:15:48.760
managed to avoid dealing with their shit their
01:15:48.760 --> 01:15:50.579
entire life and everyone around them has kind
01:15:50.579 --> 01:15:54.739
of paid the price yeah and you know like um i
01:15:54.739 --> 01:15:57.840
think like someone asked anthony hopkins uh of
01:15:57.840 --> 01:16:00.550
all people like about You know, because he doesn't
01:16:00.550 --> 01:16:02.909
talk to his family. He doesn't talk to his daughters.
01:16:02.909 --> 01:16:04.350
He doesn't have a good relationship with them.
01:16:04.569 --> 01:16:06.670
And they were like, oh, does this affect you?
01:16:06.710 --> 01:16:10.029
And I was like, no. And I was like, that is insane
01:16:10.029 --> 01:16:13.909
to me. And I get like, but I'm like, you know.
01:16:14.510 --> 01:16:18.010
Well, maybe he's a psychopath. I don't know.
01:16:18.149 --> 01:16:19.750
I don't know him. No, I know. I'm not going to
01:16:19.750 --> 01:16:21.989
judge. Well, here this is also the interesting
01:16:21.989 --> 01:16:25.869
thing. So people have nowadays much more of a
01:16:25.869 --> 01:16:29.590
parasocial relation with. With everyone. Like,
01:16:29.590 --> 01:16:31.609
you know, we talk about. So, like, could you
01:16:31.609 --> 01:16:36.949
for me. So, parasocial as in, like, slightly,
01:16:37.170 --> 01:16:40.409
like, less social. Could you define parasocial
01:16:40.409 --> 01:16:42.590
for me? So, parasocial is the idea of, like,
01:16:42.630 --> 01:16:47.510
say you're a celebrity. And everyone goes, oh,
01:16:47.550 --> 01:16:50.289
I know them. I know them. Without ever having
01:16:50.289 --> 01:16:53.010
spoken to them. However, you know, but seeing
01:16:53.010 --> 01:16:55.710
them in everything. So, someone could be, like,
01:16:55.710 --> 01:16:58.109
a massive fan and be like, oh, I know Nicolette.
01:16:58.470 --> 01:17:01.210
I know Nicolette because I've seen her in XYZ,
01:17:01.270 --> 01:17:03.270
XYZ, and XYZ. And I watched all her interviews.
01:17:03.449 --> 01:17:05.689
I know her. Like Taylor Swift. Everyone's like,
01:17:05.750 --> 01:17:08.869
I know Taylor dated XYZ. It's like one -sided
01:17:08.869 --> 01:17:12.729
or it's like superficial or only partially real.
01:17:12.829 --> 01:17:15.609
Yeah. And people make up their entire lives.
01:17:15.850 --> 01:17:21.930
Yeah. Yes. Based around these people. And there
01:17:21.930 --> 01:17:24.470
is nothing with the... Honestly, like I'm a massive
01:17:24.470 --> 01:17:27.850
nerd for fictional characters. I have a parasocial
01:17:27.850 --> 01:17:30.210
relationship with people who don't exist. Yes,
01:17:30.229 --> 01:17:35.430
absolutely. You know, like many are fantasy books
01:17:35.430 --> 01:17:37.909
and many are science fiction stories will be
01:17:37.909 --> 01:17:40.149
living rent -free in my head forever. Forever.
01:17:40.729 --> 01:17:43.149
But, you know, real people, I'm like, no, they've
01:17:43.149 --> 01:17:44.810
got their own personal lives, their own private
01:17:44.810 --> 01:17:48.729
lives. So, I mean, like, do you ever get scared
01:17:48.729 --> 01:17:52.060
of like... as adulting the fame aspect of you
01:17:52.060 --> 01:17:54.159
getting more famous as time goes on does that
01:17:54.159 --> 01:17:55.840
ever scare you where like people will be like
01:17:55.840 --> 01:17:59.060
oh i know you and have a giant wikipedia page
01:17:59.060 --> 01:18:02.359
it's interesting i think i avoid googling myself
01:18:02.359 --> 01:18:06.520
because i like there's crazy stuff on the internet
01:18:06.520 --> 01:18:12.359
yeah i'm like what um but uh there is something
01:18:12.359 --> 01:18:14.920
about control and i think as i've gotten older
01:18:14.920 --> 01:18:19.020
i've i've I realized the ways that I am a control
01:18:19.020 --> 01:18:22.659
freak and I never thought that I was. But part
01:18:22.659 --> 01:18:25.239
of that is the radical acceptance of what is
01:18:25.239 --> 01:18:28.460
not in my control. And that starts like I've
01:18:28.460 --> 01:18:30.159
talked about it very early in the industry where
01:18:30.159 --> 01:18:32.439
like some of this isn't I don't get to choose
01:18:32.439 --> 01:18:35.140
the jobs that I get or have access to. There's
01:18:35.140 --> 01:18:37.880
a lot that's out of my control. So I heavily
01:18:37.880 --> 01:18:41.680
want to control what is in my control so that
01:18:41.680 --> 01:18:45.399
I can receive. the satisfaction, the gratification
01:18:45.399 --> 01:18:47.600
I can identify with accomplishing something.
01:18:48.039 --> 01:18:53.300
And I think this sort of parasocial aspect is
01:18:53.300 --> 01:18:56.880
interesting to me that I have a persona that
01:18:56.880 --> 01:19:02.060
exists out there that isn't actually me, that
01:19:02.060 --> 01:19:05.399
I can feed into and contribute to. And definitely,
01:19:05.520 --> 01:19:08.140
I don't think about it in terms of the jobs that
01:19:08.140 --> 01:19:12.020
I do. That's not how I make my decision. Like
01:19:12.020 --> 01:19:16.319
my last film, there's nudity in the film and
01:19:16.319 --> 01:19:19.340
there's sex scenes. And the decision was not,
01:19:19.380 --> 01:19:21.479
am I okay with that being out there? It was,
01:19:21.560 --> 01:19:26.220
do I identify with this character? Is like, do
01:19:26.220 --> 01:19:30.060
I think this is going to be a positive experience
01:19:30.060 --> 01:19:33.140
on set with a director? Why is it here in the
01:19:33.140 --> 01:19:36.079
story? Does it serve a purpose? Some of that
01:19:36.079 --> 01:19:38.380
is imperfect and a lot of that I don't have control
01:19:38.380 --> 01:19:42.720
over. But my thought was not. You know, you have
01:19:42.720 --> 01:19:45.460
thoughts of like images, things are abused on
01:19:45.460 --> 01:19:47.619
the Internet, but that has nothing to do with
01:19:47.619 --> 01:19:52.260
me, really. And I think it's like protecting
01:19:52.260 --> 01:19:55.079
what is real in your life and making sure that
01:19:55.079 --> 01:19:58.739
you have something real happening that takes
01:19:58.739 --> 01:20:00.960
up your attention so that you're not distracted
01:20:00.960 --> 01:20:08.039
by what isn't real. Yes. And my partner has.
01:20:08.779 --> 01:20:11.600
uh, is sort of like a figure as I was actually
01:20:11.600 --> 01:20:15.600
in heated rivalry and has a big following. Um,
01:20:15.840 --> 01:20:19.739
and I watch him trying to navigate this because
01:20:19.739 --> 01:20:24.079
there's a lot of attention coming at him and
01:20:24.079 --> 01:20:26.680
it's like the brain space. Like I can tell if
01:20:26.680 --> 01:20:29.260
he's been on his phone or been on Instagram because
01:20:29.260 --> 01:20:31.739
there's this like slight, it's the way that I
01:20:31.739 --> 01:20:34.100
get if I'm. reading a book that i'm really into
01:20:34.100 --> 01:20:36.579
and can't extricate myself from where it's like
01:20:36.579 --> 01:20:40.619
you're kind of vacant um but i think it's like
01:20:40.619 --> 01:20:44.020
we talk about what kind of boundaries to have
01:20:44.020 --> 01:20:47.479
there and for just for the sake of your own mental
01:20:47.479 --> 01:20:51.420
health yeah well i think that's also yeah it
01:20:51.420 --> 01:20:55.779
it's very prevalent just to be like um the level
01:20:55.779 --> 01:21:01.140
of just what other people will think and or what
01:21:01.140 --> 01:21:04.479
other people will choose to think about you know
01:21:04.479 --> 01:21:08.020
xyz um and you you don't have control because
01:21:08.020 --> 01:21:10.939
that's all just a projection of their own assumptions
01:21:10.939 --> 01:21:13.380
their circumstances it's all them projecting
01:21:13.380 --> 01:21:16.180
something onto you from their lives which you
01:21:16.180 --> 01:21:19.779
know like that full autonomy that you know we
01:21:21.200 --> 01:21:23.279
Because it's so interesting as well because I
01:21:23.279 --> 01:21:26.779
hate social media. I have a loathing for it because
01:21:26.779 --> 01:21:29.560
I'm a kid of the 90s. You don't love recipe videos?
01:21:29.859 --> 01:21:32.640
No, I do. Or little kiddie videos? I love little
01:21:32.640 --> 01:21:34.760
kiddie videos and I love recipe videos. Craft
01:21:34.760 --> 01:21:37.260
videos? I've learned a lot. Have I told you about
01:21:37.260 --> 01:21:39.840
my tile table project? Don't. It'll take all
01:21:39.840 --> 01:21:44.279
day. This makes us sound really odd. By the way,
01:21:44.300 --> 01:21:46.979
cooking videos, we don't watch anything else.
01:21:46.979 --> 01:21:50.800
That is like a universally safe space. Everyone
01:21:50.800 --> 01:21:53.279
is like, fuck social media. But yeah, the recipe
01:21:53.279 --> 01:21:56.500
videos, absolutely. No, my favorite is like following
01:21:56.500 --> 01:22:01.739
Dylan Hollis and his like little 1940s or 1920s
01:22:01.739 --> 01:22:03.930
recipes that he finds. I don't know who this
01:22:03.930 --> 01:22:06.390
is, but my phone is going. No, my phone will
01:22:06.390 --> 01:22:08.470
do it for me. Oh, yeah. It's listening in on
01:22:08.470 --> 01:22:10.250
our conversation. And we're like, Dylan Hall
01:22:10.250 --> 01:22:13.550
is absolutely like. So excited. But, you know,
01:22:13.550 --> 01:22:16.529
that is the sort of like zeitgeist that I sort
01:22:16.529 --> 01:22:20.770
of like, you know, I as I sort of like constantly
01:22:20.770 --> 01:22:22.949
been like, oh, business brand, like, you know,
01:22:22.949 --> 01:22:25.069
promote, promote, promote. But I'm also like,
01:22:25.170 --> 01:22:28.789
fuck, you know, I really don't. want to look
01:22:28.789 --> 01:22:31.149
at the likes or the, you know, like sometimes
01:22:31.149 --> 01:22:32.630
I just want to switch off my brain. Or keep trying
01:22:32.630 --> 01:22:34.890
to see yourself from the outside. That's what
01:22:34.890 --> 01:22:37.409
kind of, even like picking headshots or like
01:22:37.409 --> 01:22:40.630
shooting audition tapes and deciding which one
01:22:40.630 --> 01:22:46.310
to send. It is, I think it is detrimental to
01:22:46.310 --> 01:22:49.250
your mental health if instead of being present
01:22:49.250 --> 01:22:51.670
in your life, you're having to observe your life.
01:22:52.159 --> 01:22:54.260
And not only observe it, but observe it from
01:22:54.260 --> 01:22:57.319
someone else's perspective in order to meet a
01:22:57.319 --> 01:23:00.359
standard or someone else's expectations. And
01:23:00.359 --> 01:23:03.159
it's so simple, but I think you can get trapped
01:23:03.159 --> 01:23:11.479
in just not even cognitively connecting to the
01:23:11.479 --> 01:23:15.500
activity that you love the most. Yeah. Yeah.
01:23:15.779 --> 01:23:21.619
I think that's so... Yeah, I mean, like, it just,
01:23:21.640 --> 01:23:26.979
it does feel like, for me, cognitively connecting.
01:23:27.319 --> 01:23:31.439
I'm saying that. Cognitively connecting. Just
01:23:31.439 --> 01:23:36.220
like my, just like cognitively connecting. To
01:23:36.220 --> 01:23:40.760
connect cognitively. With cognition. Connection.
01:23:41.390 --> 01:23:46.630
Avec cognition. Sorry, go ahead. Let me interrupt
01:23:46.630 --> 01:23:50.010
you one more time. No, go ahead. But I do like
01:23:50.010 --> 01:23:53.609
that, you know, like the thing is like, you know,
01:23:53.609 --> 01:23:55.569
to look at myself objectively from the outside,
01:23:55.670 --> 01:23:57.770
to look at yourself and to look at our careers
01:23:57.770 --> 01:24:00.569
and be like, oh, okay, how have we done? Have
01:24:00.569 --> 01:24:02.930
we adulted well enough? Have we done X, Y, Z
01:24:02.930 --> 01:24:07.430
to mirror that be enough? We're both like, you
01:24:07.430 --> 01:24:10.140
know. And to be perceived that way. People look
01:24:10.140 --> 01:24:12.420
at us, both of us, going, we've got successful
01:24:12.420 --> 01:24:15.079
careers. And we look at each other going, you've
01:24:15.079 --> 01:24:17.020
got a successful career. I've never thought that.
01:24:18.039 --> 01:24:21.300
Get the fuck out. You're like, what a lame ass.
01:24:21.399 --> 01:24:26.539
Why am I here? No, not at all. But yeah, someone's
01:24:26.539 --> 01:24:28.479
doing a thing and you connect with them in that
01:24:28.479 --> 01:24:30.600
moment when they're doing the thing. So you assume
01:24:30.600 --> 01:24:33.899
success. They're doing it. You don't see all
01:24:33.899 --> 01:24:35.760
the self -doubt and the moments before and the
01:24:35.760 --> 01:24:37.819
failures. No. And I think that's sort of like
01:24:37.819 --> 01:24:41.479
the, you know, if you went back in time, if you
01:24:41.479 --> 01:24:46.100
went back to young Nicolette and went, hey, girl.
01:24:46.359 --> 01:24:48.699
Hey, girl. You got this. Your hair's so good,
01:24:48.739 --> 01:24:51.739
girl. Yes, so good, girl. I mean, like, what
01:24:51.739 --> 01:24:53.380
would you tell her? What advice would you give?
01:24:54.619 --> 01:25:00.180
You're doing fine. And still, still, I'm so hard
01:25:00.180 --> 01:25:03.979
on myself. Yeah. I'm so hard on myself. And it
01:25:03.979 --> 01:25:07.060
is getting in the way of everything. And it's
01:25:07.060 --> 01:25:12.399
like, it's just, it's this mental, it's this
01:25:12.399 --> 01:25:15.739
cognitive tick where it feels so good to be hard
01:25:15.739 --> 01:25:17.600
on myself and to tell myself what I'm doing wrong
01:25:17.600 --> 01:25:20.800
so that I can try to find a way to move forward
01:25:20.800 --> 01:25:23.420
and do differently. But it destroys, it destroys
01:25:23.420 --> 01:25:26.800
joy and satisfaction. And it's like, it's so
01:25:26.800 --> 01:25:31.539
hard for me to say, I did a great job. I crushed
01:25:31.539 --> 01:25:37.750
that. I look great today. You do. I chose a great
01:25:37.750 --> 01:25:41.149
outfit. Yeah. I'm having a great conversation
01:25:41.149 --> 01:25:44.069
and I'm saying everything I need to say. And
01:25:44.069 --> 01:25:45.609
this is really witty and people will love this
01:25:45.609 --> 01:25:50.210
conversation. I'm just spouting this shit out
01:25:50.210 --> 01:25:54.390
and I'm having a physical reaction of discomfort
01:25:54.390 --> 01:25:59.630
because it just feels untrue. Yeah. But it's,
01:25:59.750 --> 01:26:02.250
you know, and going back to saying that, you
01:26:02.250 --> 01:26:04.869
do look amazing today and your hair does look
01:26:04.869 --> 01:26:11.909
great. But also, like, you know, I sort of wholeheartedly,
01:26:12.010 --> 01:26:14.170
you know, it's like we were, you know, I hadn't
01:26:14.170 --> 01:26:16.310
recorded in two years. You know, you were nervous
01:26:16.310 --> 01:26:18.289
about coming on as well. Like we were both like,
01:26:18.369 --> 01:26:21.630
you know, that comes with its own self -doubt
01:26:21.630 --> 01:26:24.649
and, you know, fuck it, we are great at what
01:26:24.649 --> 01:26:27.029
we do. So I think it's always interesting because,
01:26:28.320 --> 01:26:32.180
For the disbelievers out there who, you know,
01:26:32.199 --> 01:26:37.880
it's just, it's always that kick in the butt.
01:26:37.960 --> 01:26:40.840
Like, I think my biggest cheerleader, and, you
01:26:40.840 --> 01:26:42.359
know, it's been one of the best things ever.
01:26:42.460 --> 01:26:44.600
It's like, Em and I are our cheerleaders for
01:26:44.600 --> 01:26:46.380
each other. That's really important. And, you
01:26:46.380 --> 01:26:51.359
know, like, I remember, you know, every project
01:26:51.359 --> 01:26:53.880
I've ever done. You know, like she's been like,
01:26:53.939 --> 01:26:55.300
oh my God, this is great. You know, like this
01:26:55.300 --> 01:26:58.579
is fantastic. I'm glad you're doing this. But
01:26:58.579 --> 01:27:01.020
it does, you need that because someone needs
01:27:01.020 --> 01:27:04.220
to believe in you. Yeah, it's really okay to
01:27:04.220 --> 01:27:06.520
need external validation sometimes from the right
01:27:06.520 --> 01:27:10.380
person and from like a healthy place. Yeah. But
01:27:10.380 --> 01:27:12.720
I think also the one thing is like, and this
01:27:12.720 --> 01:27:14.800
is the best advice I ever got, no one cares about
01:27:14.800 --> 01:27:17.199
your project more than you do. So that is also
01:27:17.199 --> 01:27:19.699
okay. You are going to be your biggest fan of
01:27:19.699 --> 01:27:23.100
the thing you are working on. You hope so. You
01:27:23.100 --> 01:27:25.479
hope so. I fucking hope so. You hope that you
01:27:25.479 --> 01:27:26.899
care a lot about what you're doing, that you
01:27:26.899 --> 01:27:29.060
should be so lucky. But yeah, and also people
01:27:29.060 --> 01:27:30.720
are thinking about themselves. Yes. They're not
01:27:30.720 --> 01:27:32.779
thinking about you. No. That's the thing. And
01:27:32.779 --> 01:27:36.020
it's the same when you go to the gym. When you're
01:27:36.020 --> 01:27:40.439
in the gym, everyone else is thinking about what
01:27:40.439 --> 01:27:42.939
they're doing. They're also thinking, God, everyone
01:27:42.939 --> 01:27:46.020
probably thinks I suck in here. But you're all
01:27:46.020 --> 01:27:48.899
in the same boat. It's life. You and I have different
01:27:48.899 --> 01:27:54.619
experiences at the gym. Everyone's like, oh my
01:27:54.619 --> 01:27:56.079
God, Nicolette. I don't know what I'm doing,
01:27:56.220 --> 01:28:01.699
but I am like, don't look at me. No, but I think,
01:28:01.699 --> 01:28:04.600
I think that is, it's a very good point. And
01:28:04.600 --> 01:28:06.680
everyone is focused on themselves and it's really
01:28:06.680 --> 01:28:08.819
vulnerable. Like being in the gym, being in a
01:28:08.819 --> 01:28:12.439
public forum, being observed is vulnerable. Yeah.
01:28:14.579 --> 01:28:18.130
Yeah. I mean, you know. Just being human. That
01:28:18.130 --> 01:28:20.770
is adulting though. That is like adulting is
01:28:20.770 --> 01:28:23.729
dealing with the uncomfortable and dealing with.
01:28:24.109 --> 01:28:27.289
That's not trying to avoid this. Literally, I'm
01:28:27.289 --> 01:28:29.470
talking about this in therapy right now. But
01:28:29.470 --> 01:28:32.630
this idea of ease versus struggle, like I find
01:28:32.630 --> 01:28:37.630
myself mentally exiting a moment and like planning
01:28:37.630 --> 01:28:40.460
when am I like, when is the next point of. ease
01:28:40.460 --> 01:28:42.319
of non -conflict and often that's being alone
01:28:42.319 --> 01:28:44.399
because sometimes so often social situations
01:28:44.399 --> 01:28:46.560
come with their own sort of struggle or anxiety
01:28:46.560 --> 01:28:51.340
and uh when am i next going to be alone or eating
01:28:51.340 --> 01:28:55.819
something delicious or in the sun like looking
01:28:55.819 --> 01:28:58.960
for that next moment of ease as and judging the
01:28:58.960 --> 01:29:02.680
struggle And what happens if I'm constantly avoiding
01:29:02.680 --> 01:29:05.960
struggle and avoiding that like emotional turmoil
01:29:05.960 --> 01:29:08.800
because I'm afraid I won't be able to recalibrate,
01:29:08.979 --> 01:29:12.439
then I'm actually missing out on the really good
01:29:12.439 --> 01:29:17.020
shit because good stuff comes out of that. And
01:29:17.020 --> 01:29:18.560
you challenge yourself and you learn something
01:29:18.560 --> 01:29:21.739
and you build trust in yourself. But if you're
01:29:21.739 --> 01:29:24.500
always just like think about retirement, the
01:29:24.500 --> 01:29:28.939
idea that I'm working my whole life to a point
01:29:28.939 --> 01:29:32.439
where everything will be. easeful and i can just
01:29:32.439 --> 01:29:36.020
travel and i'll have all my savings it's such
01:29:36.020 --> 01:29:39.479
like it's such a fucked up way to live to be
01:29:39.479 --> 01:29:44.880
looking for relaxation rather than really appreciating
01:29:44.880 --> 01:29:48.460
that the struggle is it yeah to not run away
01:29:48.460 --> 01:29:52.100
from it and with art like struggle and discourse
01:29:52.100 --> 01:29:57.460
disagreement it's it's potent it It's the catalyst
01:29:57.460 --> 01:30:01.380
for new ideas that you couldn't have come up
01:30:01.380 --> 01:30:05.859
with on your own. Okay, that's my spiel on struggle.
01:30:05.859 --> 01:30:08.699
I love that. I'm done. You're done. I'm done
01:30:08.699 --> 01:30:10.460
with the spiel of struggle. I'm done with the
01:30:10.460 --> 01:30:12.680
struggle spiel. I mean, honestly, it was a great
01:30:12.680 --> 01:30:16.800
struggle spiel. I struggled with it. I'm criticizing
01:30:16.800 --> 01:30:19.340
myself right now. Don't get out. I think it was
01:30:19.340 --> 01:30:23.520
repetitive. It's just like it's too long. It
01:30:23.520 --> 01:30:25.600
needed to be short and sweet. Yeah, so sorry
01:30:25.600 --> 01:30:28.140
about that. No, but I really do sort of think
01:30:28.140 --> 01:30:31.220
about like retirement and stuff. You do? No,
01:30:31.359 --> 01:30:34.000
because only for the fact that like, you know,
01:30:34.000 --> 01:30:37.579
it is kind of a constant like, you know, you
01:30:37.579 --> 01:30:39.760
retire. But I'm also reminded of like, again,
01:30:39.779 --> 01:30:41.239
like you were saying, being in the present, like,
01:30:41.279 --> 01:30:43.819
you know, travel now because you might not get
01:30:43.819 --> 01:30:45.720
able to travel. You know, like, you know, my
01:30:45.720 --> 01:30:47.760
dad was 67 when he passed away. He was way too
01:30:47.760 --> 01:30:51.520
young. But it's like the thing that. My mom decided
01:30:51.520 --> 01:30:56.159
after he died was she, she's like, she's almost
01:30:56.159 --> 01:30:58.140
70. She's a couple of years away from being 70.
01:30:58.819 --> 01:31:02.140
And I remember saying to her, like, don't stop
01:31:02.140 --> 01:31:04.899
traveling because dad was a massive traveler.
01:31:04.960 --> 01:31:06.920
And he was like, he would have loved. And she's
01:31:06.920 --> 01:31:08.119
like, no, I'm not going to stop. Like, I'm going
01:31:08.119 --> 01:31:10.039
to still travel. Probably not to all the countries
01:31:10.039 --> 01:31:12.260
that he wanted to go to, but like other countries
01:31:12.260 --> 01:31:15.319
that I want to go to. And it is a thing. Like
01:31:15.319 --> 01:31:17.420
she's done things around her house that she wanted
01:31:17.420 --> 01:31:20.579
to update. And now that it's just her, she gets
01:31:20.579 --> 01:31:22.739
to do the, like, not that he prevented, but it
01:31:22.739 --> 01:31:24.680
was just like, she doesn't have to ask him for
01:31:24.680 --> 01:31:26.380
permission. So it's sort of like easy just to
01:31:26.380 --> 01:31:29.319
get things done. And there were just little things
01:31:29.319 --> 01:31:31.520
where she's like, I miss him. But also like,
01:31:31.579 --> 01:31:33.340
I get to do all these wonderful things that I
01:31:33.340 --> 01:31:37.380
get to like experience life because he, he didn't
01:31:37.380 --> 01:31:39.600
get, you know, long enough retirement. And so
01:31:39.600 --> 01:31:42.039
therefore it's like, why are we waiting? When
01:31:42.039 --> 01:31:45.460
we literally could also die before we get to
01:31:45.460 --> 01:31:47.539
return. I mean, I think that is also our generation.
01:31:47.840 --> 01:31:51.159
Yeah. Well, we see it from the perspective of
01:31:51.159 --> 01:31:54.760
like, oh, well, you know, also through the fact
01:31:54.760 --> 01:31:57.199
that we've all got cameras and phones and we've
01:31:57.199 --> 01:31:59.500
seen people in videos who are no longer around,
01:31:59.640 --> 01:32:02.720
that we can sort of like measure that time length
01:32:02.720 --> 01:32:06.380
a lot better than prior to that where you didn't
01:32:06.380 --> 01:32:09.100
have a time length and you can sort of see you
01:32:09.100 --> 01:32:11.539
didn't know. You just didn't know. Modern medicine,
01:32:11.680 --> 01:32:16.340
amazing. Yeah. But also, you know, like miraculously
01:32:16.340 --> 01:32:19.199
some things do, you know, can't be prevented.
01:32:20.439 --> 01:32:25.380
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The future feels, I was never
01:32:25.380 --> 01:32:27.659
a planner. The future feels like imaginary and
01:32:27.659 --> 01:32:30.859
hypothetical. Your ADHD did not allow you. My
01:32:30.859 --> 01:32:35.720
sense of time is. Off the rocks. Is that an expression?
01:32:36.060 --> 01:32:39.460
Well, I mean, on the rocks. Off the rocks is
01:32:39.460 --> 01:32:42.319
just. He's off his rocket. My sense of time is
01:32:42.319 --> 01:32:45.319
not normal. Like you're saying. Was I talking
01:32:45.319 --> 01:32:47.180
about rocks for five minutes or five seconds?
01:32:47.199 --> 01:32:51.600
I honestly have no idea. I don't know either.
01:32:51.760 --> 01:32:53.819
But I mean, like, you know, that is the thing.
01:32:53.960 --> 01:32:56.359
And I think, like, do you, what are you looking
01:32:56.359 --> 01:32:59.520
forward to, I guess, out of this year? What is
01:32:59.520 --> 01:33:02.460
Nicolette? Looking forward to out of the rest
01:33:02.460 --> 01:33:07.319
of this year. I, yeah, absolutely. It's a planner.
01:33:08.699 --> 01:33:10.960
Well, there are, there are certain things. I'm,
01:33:10.960 --> 01:33:14.079
me and my partner are writing a feature script,
01:33:14.159 --> 01:33:16.539
which is based on our short film Pink Light.
01:33:17.100 --> 01:33:21.699
That was at TIFF last year. And so this, it has
01:33:21.699 --> 01:33:26.979
been a really confronting time. I also. Like
01:33:26.979 --> 01:33:31.000
the film Mayan Samar came out that I shot a couple
01:33:31.000 --> 01:33:35.539
years ago. And there's all these things sort
01:33:35.539 --> 01:33:38.600
of like coming into the public sphere and coming
01:33:38.600 --> 01:33:42.199
into fruition. But I feel like what I'm confronting
01:33:42.199 --> 01:33:46.300
is almost the identity crisis of trying something
01:33:46.300 --> 01:33:49.960
new, which is producing and writing a feature
01:33:49.960 --> 01:33:52.100
film and trying to figure out how that works.
01:33:53.310 --> 01:33:55.770
and navigating that dynamic within the relationship.
01:33:56.010 --> 01:33:58.649
And it's like, it's the best thing ever and also
01:33:58.649 --> 01:34:02.250
incredibly challenging and confronting. And I
01:34:02.250 --> 01:34:06.029
think with my acting, I reached a place where
01:34:06.029 --> 01:34:09.789
I'm like, the next job will come. If I'm in a
01:34:09.789 --> 01:34:14.649
slow spell, that's fine. And I feel very confident
01:34:14.649 --> 01:34:18.449
and secure in what I bring. to that role on set.
01:34:18.949 --> 01:34:21.369
And it's been a minute since I've really put
01:34:21.369 --> 01:34:24.390
myself out there and tried something new, like
01:34:24.390 --> 01:34:28.029
writing. And my critical voices are coming out
01:34:28.029 --> 01:34:31.050
and my judgment of myself and like all of these
01:34:31.050 --> 01:34:33.930
things that I haven't had to navigate for a while.
01:34:35.449 --> 01:34:39.090
So I think it's a really exciting time. I feel
01:34:39.090 --> 01:34:42.289
like I'm coming into my adult self, like I said,
01:34:42.289 --> 01:34:45.859
because I can't avoid these things. I can't run
01:34:45.859 --> 01:34:49.699
away to Costa Rica or like go on a five month
01:34:49.699 --> 01:34:52.800
road trip. I don't know. I'm here and I'm confronting
01:34:52.800 --> 01:34:55.260
them. And that feels like the most adult shit
01:34:55.260 --> 01:34:58.500
I've ever done. And I'm excited to see where
01:34:58.500 --> 01:35:01.720
it leads me. But yeah, we're producing and writing
01:35:01.720 --> 01:35:05.000
a script and I'm shooting a video game that I'm
01:35:05.000 --> 01:35:07.159
not allowed to say what it is, but I think it's
01:35:07.159 --> 01:35:09.100
really exciting. And when it comes out, I'm like
01:35:09.100 --> 01:35:14.820
really excited to see what that turns into. And
01:35:14.820 --> 01:35:16.819
I'm going to see my family in the fall. And I
01:35:16.819 --> 01:35:19.600
always really, that time is always really precious.
01:35:19.899 --> 01:35:22.640
I'm really, really excited for that. That's so
01:35:22.640 --> 01:35:26.619
sweet. I love that. Like of all those things,
01:35:26.739 --> 01:35:30.960
I think that is the best thing. And that is the
01:35:30.960 --> 01:35:33.779
true adulting. Yeah. To know that I'm excited
01:35:33.779 --> 01:35:36.380
to see my family. Yeah. That I appreciate them.
01:35:36.960 --> 01:35:38.979
I mean, maybe if I saw them all the time, that
01:35:38.979 --> 01:35:41.380
would be different. You're like, nah, that's
01:35:41.380 --> 01:35:45.640
too much. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my goodness. Well,
01:35:45.680 --> 01:35:47.279
I do have one final question for you, though.
01:35:47.539 --> 01:35:51.460
One deep foreboding question. Where on the internet
01:35:51.460 --> 01:35:53.300
can people find you, Nicolette? Where can they
01:35:53.300 --> 01:35:59.279
stalk you? It's my name on Instagram, Nicolette
01:35:59.279 --> 01:36:04.949
Pierce. That's about it. I don't really. Don't
01:36:04.949 --> 01:36:08.310
Google. Everything else is unreliable. My MDB
01:36:08.310 --> 01:36:12.010
page, I know. Just like everything is, I don't
01:36:12.010 --> 01:36:16.029
know. You will find. But can I just say, I could
01:36:16.029 --> 01:36:22.890
talk to you all day. I know. Well, we also spent,
01:36:22.930 --> 01:36:24.890
we hung out an hour before we arrived here. So
01:36:24.890 --> 01:36:28.989
we've been chilling all night. But thank you
01:36:28.989 --> 01:36:31.260
so much. for joining me. Thank you for inviting
01:36:31.260 --> 01:36:33.380
me. Thank you for having this chat with me. It's
01:36:33.380 --> 01:36:35.659
been such a pleasure. And if you want to go and
01:36:35.659 --> 01:36:37.739
check out more episodes of The Things We Do,
01:36:37.819 --> 01:36:39.439
you can check them out on Apple and Spotify.
01:36:40.159 --> 01:36:42.399
I'll be back in two weeks to speak to another
01:36:42.399 --> 01:36:44.220
guest, but otherwise I will speak to everyone
01:36:44.220 --> 01:36:45.439
later. Goodbye!