WEBVTT
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we're building tomorrow but we're human today
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where technology meets us and ideas lead the
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way from business to connection from vision into
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sound we turn the boldest ideas into something
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real and loud the synthetic echo where human
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meets machine create a bill to grow it push beyond
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what you have seen the synthetic echo the future
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starts right here Good morning, good afternoon,
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good evening, or good night, depending on what
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time you're listening and when you're listening.
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Welcome to The Synthetic Echo. I am your host,
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Nathan Graham, and this is where we talk about
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where humanity meets technology for the most
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part. Today, again, always excited to have guests.
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I appreciate it. My guest today is Josh Porter
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with a career -leading marketing for companies
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like Google Cloud and numerous AI startups. He's
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seen firsthand why even the most brilliant technology
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often fails to connect with the people it's meant
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to serve. He argues that a world awash in AI,
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the key isn't more automation, but deeper humanity.
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He's the author of The Last Human Marketer. And
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today we're going to explore the critical question.
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How do you craft the story that turns complex
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technology into something customers will finally
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understand, believe, and buy? Welcome to the
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show, Josh. I hope all of that was correct, by
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the way. I let AI run my whole life, so. Yeah,
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no, that was good. That was good. I appreciate
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it. Happy to be here. So yeah, for the listeners
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out there, let's let's dive into it. Tell us
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a bit about yourself. Tell us what you do, what
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you love to do, everything like that. Awesome,
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so I run a consulting practice called Thunder
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Wolf Consulting, where I work with AI scale ups
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to do their marketing and a lot of times I'll
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come in and. help with their ability to tell
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a story behind the AI as opposed to just what
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the AI does or can do for customers. So that's
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what I do. And as you mentioned in the bio, I've
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worked at a few different startups, worked in
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AI for since 2018, doing marketing for that so
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well before the hype cycle. So excited to be
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here to talk about the book that... gives a little
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bit of a sneak preview of what I can offer to
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AI scale -ups. Awesome. So let's kind of start
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there. When you talk about an AI -based business,
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are you talking about an AI -generated SaaS program,
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someone who's looking to implement AI, someone
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who has a company that's around, I guess, just
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around AI software? What sort of company is that
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like so people get an idea of really what's out
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there for a whole new line of work? Absolutely.
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So it's not AI for marketing. It's marketing
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for AI products. The way that I categorized AI
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tech stack is at the top layer, you have the
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application layer. So that's any kind of business
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user app that is ready to go without any developer
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knowledge necessary. And then you've got the
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platform layer, which is geared more for developers
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so that they can build those types of applications
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that I mentioned earlier so that non -technical
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users can use it. And then you've got the model
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layer which is, as many of us are familiar with,
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the foundation models that are enabled. They're
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the engines of our AI interface. And then below
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that is the infrastructure layer. So the chips,
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the hardware that actually powers all of those
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capabilities. So those are the types of companies,
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the companies in those layers that I do marketing
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for. Awesome. I love it because I'm in that software
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development layer. Actually, while we're here,
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I have my Alice, my coding agent coding things
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as we're talking because that's what frees up
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time. So it's always a fantastic part to it.
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So what does that look like? I had a conversation
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with a few marketing individuals before, and
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it does seem to be a common thing that in. And
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this might sound challenging, I don't mean it
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to be challenging, but in a world where AI can
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take over so much. justify why a human touch
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is still needed. Because it's funny, I was in
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a call this morning and we were talking about
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how we can get LinkedIn to juice up our profiles,
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to create our things. We just tell it, hey, my
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Facebook sucks, make it better. My website sucks,
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make it better. And it does all these things.
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Now I'm an advocate for human intervention. So
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explain to me why, like what is the difference
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between me doing that, say with AI like Claude
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or with actually doing it with a person? Yeah.
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So, and this is one of the arguments that I make
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within my book, The Last Human Marketer, about
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how having that human insight is really key because
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with AI, you can have all these very logical
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arguments and create content that seems very
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logical. But the piece to this is you've got
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to have an empathy towards the audience that
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you're talking to. And so when you spout facts
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and figures, that's great. But usually those
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things don't convince people. I can talk all
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day long about the features that any of those
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AI products and any of that stack that I mentioned
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could be superior to the competition or make
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you do your projects faster. But the key thing
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is, if you're not talking about somebody's pain,
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and you're not identifying with that pain, like
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being able to, if you're in the customer service
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area, trying to reduce the amount of issues that
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somebody has to deal with on a call or trying
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to improve their customer satisfaction. If you're
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trying to sell that kind of technology to a vendor,
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The best way you're going to identify with that
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is having empathy for that person that you're
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selling it to. So instead of just organizing
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a bunch of facts and figures, if you're able
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to create a narrative, a story around that to
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show that, hey, one, I get you. Two, I understand
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your pain. And three, let me tell you a story
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about how we can fix that pain. That is the best
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way that you're able to connect with customers,
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not just through simply using AI to say, Tell
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me the top three features that this product offers.
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Well, it's funny, as a designer myself, I get
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caught up in that because I have all these tools
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and I'm like, Josh, you got it. I got to show
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you, man. This has this built into it. It has
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that built into it. Now you would probably know,
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but the vast majority of people have no clue
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what I'm talking about. My business partner is
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not a technological partner. He's a financial
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guy. And so he often gets on me whenever I'm
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presenting to be like, dude, you got to tone
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it down. We're having a problem here. They don't
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care that Claude is in this, right? Yes. It's
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interesting because in the end, I think most
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people don't care if it's black magic doing the
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work. It's what is the outcome that comes from
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using this particular tool. If it's AI that helps
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make it happen, great, but nobody's tripping
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over themselves because AI is doing this, oh,
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my life is going to be so much better. some hocus
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pocus in the background for all they care. But
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as long as it's getting the outcomes that they're
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looking for, that's the key. And that's why using
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stories and empathy help you connect with customers
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in a better way. Okay. So if there's a company
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owner out there, like it's funny, I've never
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asked a marketing person this question and there
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may not even be an answer to it. But what does
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that turnaround time look like? Because a lot
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of times, if you're dealing with a startup, they
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don't often have the budgets to go into marketing.
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They just go do what they want to do. And maybe
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they get a little bit lucky, they get a little
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bit of money in, and now they want to bring in
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a marketer. What does that turnaround time, how
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long does it usually take from the point where
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they hire you for their company to be known by
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the message that you're trying to deliver? Or
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is that even how it works? Does that make sense?
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Sure. So yeah, it works a little bit differently.
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A lot of these companies that I've worked with
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are past product market fit, meaning they're
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around 5 to 20 million revenues. So they're not
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the tiny startups that are just getting off the
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ground, but they're also not the large enterprises
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or household names. So for me, what I do is I
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come in to, once they've got this product market
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fit, obviously there's enough people that are
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interested in what they're offering. I come in
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to help them position themselves and create the
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messaging around them so that they can differentiate
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themselves amongst the competition. And so they're
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going to be in a particular space, whether that's
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customer experience for AI or it's app building
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for AI. Having that, understanding that space
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is where I come in and say, all right, here's
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where you are in this. Here's the customer that
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you're trying to reach. Here are the channels
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that you are trying, you're able to reach them
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in, whether that's podcasts or newsletters or
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search capabilities. Here are the categories
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that you're competing in. So what's the market
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category that you're part of that these customers
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might think of you being part of? And then who
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is the competition in that area? who are the
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direct and indirect competitors? And then what
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are your capabilities? So that's what I come
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in and help these customers with. And that's
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what, again, is covered in the last human market
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or this framework of how I work with them. So
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I call it the customer connect code. Those are
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the five C's. So to recap, it's the customer,
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the channels, the category, the competition,
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and the capability. So that's how I work with
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these AI scale ups to help organize and systemize
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the way they tell their story. So, okay, so let's
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dive into those five C's. Is that, and actually
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before we dive into that, is that the framework
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of where the book is generated around? Are those
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five C's kind of, okay, so let's dive into it.
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Take me through the process, but don't give away
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everything. Still make it that everybody has
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to buy your book. So take it through the process.
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Are those five C's first of all in order? Do
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we always start with customer? Yes, you always
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start with the customer because marketing in
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one -on -one is understanding your audience.
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You don't understand your audience. Everything
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you do after that won't resonate, won't land.
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So you got to understand the customer. So what
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does the customer look like in your case? So
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that's all about understanding what are the kind
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of key personas that you're working with? Well,
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first off, you understand the ideal company profile,
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the ideal customer profile. What are the firmographics?
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What are the technographics of these types of
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companies that you are serving? And then understanding
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that you look at the persona. The customer is
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titled as the VP of customer experience or it
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could be the chief supply chain officer, depending
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on what the customer or the company that you're
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trying to sell into. So once you understand and
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then I try to break it down into what are their
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business drivers or their goals? What are their
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pains? What are the What are the paths that do
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for purchasing these types of tools? So that's
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the key in understanding these personas who you're
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writing to. Because when you do messaging, you're
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writing. And when you write, you need to write
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to readers. Who are the readers? These customers.
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So the more you understand about them, the better
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you can read. You can write to them. Because
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if you're marketing or writing to everyone, then
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you're writing or marketing to no one. So that's
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the key. That's the foundation. So then the next
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step is the channel. Well, great, you can write
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amazing messaging to them, but if it's not reaching
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them, then it doesn't matter. It's just falling
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on deaf ears. So you need to understand where
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are they looking for this type of information.
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So then you understand the channels that they're
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looking at. So it could be podcasts, it could
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be newsletters, it could be AI search, it could
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be conferences or influencers. So you got to
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understand the channels that they're looking
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for. They may be looking for referrals from their
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peers. Understanding these things to know once
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you know who you're talking to and what to say
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to them You need to know how to reach them. So
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that's where channels come into play Now then
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it's the category. Okay, once you understand
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who to talk to and how to talk to them then it's
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what is the what's the Arena that you're playing
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in that they recognize and they understand so
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they understand them. They have a problem They're
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gonna think about a specific category of tools
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that can help them So this category, this market
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category is where are you playing against people
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that also try to solve that same problem? So
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again, if you're in customer experience, you're
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trying to solve for trying to help you improve
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your customer satisfaction and efficiencies,
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you're going to be looking at the contact centers
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of service category. So you need to understand
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what are the other players in that category,
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but also even more importantly, who are the influencers
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in that category? You've got analysts. So if
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you look at Gartner, Forrester, IDC, the analysts
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segment themselves according to different domains
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or different categories. So you look at that
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and you have to look at other informal influencers
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for that. You also have to look at the partnerships
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that are specifically for that category. So understanding
00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:02.639
that market category you're in is the next key
00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:06.200
piece. And then after that, Once you understand
00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:07.799
the category, then it's easy to understand who's
00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:10.019
the competition. So you've got direct competitors
00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:11.539
and indirect competitors. Direct competitors
00:14:11.539 --> 00:14:13.940
are the me -tos, right? They do the same thing.
00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.919
If we're going with the CCAS example, the contact
00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:19.700
center as a service, they're going to offer similar
00:14:19.700 --> 00:14:22.240
features and products. And then you also have
00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:25.480
indirect competitors that are things like spreadsheets.
00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:27.279
People just always default to spreadsheets or
00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:30.360
like other internal tools. So understanding what
00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:34.700
the competition is in that area. is really key
00:14:34.700 --> 00:14:36.379
because that's how you're going to be able to
00:14:36.379 --> 00:14:37.899
differentiate yourself. You can't differentiate
00:14:37.899 --> 00:14:40.039
yourself if you don't understand your competition.
00:14:40.620 --> 00:14:42.279
It's very much like playing any kind of game.
00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:45.399
You have to understand a board game or sports.
00:14:46.100 --> 00:14:48.919
You do need to understand the competition in
00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:50.960
order to play against them because you can't
00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:56.340
just use your general playbook and not understand
00:14:56.340 --> 00:14:58.720
who it is you're playing against. So I'm a big
00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:01.129
baseball fan. you know, you got to think about
00:15:01.129 --> 00:15:04.169
like if... Whereabouts you're from again? What's
00:15:04.169 --> 00:15:06.750
that? Whereabouts you're from again? Oh, New
00:15:06.750 --> 00:15:09.710
York. So I'm a Yankees fan. I'm a Blue Jays fan,
00:15:10.090 --> 00:15:14.190
so... Oh, yes. So the Yankees... Yes, absolutely.
00:15:14.350 --> 00:15:16.409
So you got to... The Yankees have to understand
00:15:16.409 --> 00:15:18.269
the Blue Jays, you know, their players and how
00:15:18.269 --> 00:15:20.309
they work, how the pitches are going to be coming
00:15:20.309 --> 00:15:21.950
to them, those types of things, right? Same thing
00:15:21.950 --> 00:15:25.289
with, you know, B2B SaaS. You have to... Software
00:15:25.289 --> 00:15:27.610
as a service. Business to business software as
00:15:27.610 --> 00:15:30.649
a service. So you have to... understand how your
00:15:30.649 --> 00:15:32.590
competition works in order to differentiate yourself
00:15:32.590 --> 00:15:34.570
or even play against them, position yourself
00:15:34.570 --> 00:15:37.710
against. So that's the competition. And the last
00:15:37.710 --> 00:15:43.850
C is capability. So it's not what your product
00:15:43.850 --> 00:15:46.850
is, it's what it does. What does it do for your
00:15:46.850 --> 00:15:49.230
customer? Again, going all the way back to the
00:15:49.230 --> 00:15:52.009
beginning, who are you talking to? What does
00:15:52.009 --> 00:15:54.409
your product do for a customer? What are the
00:15:54.409 --> 00:16:00.960
outcomes that make them have happen? Because
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:04.740
sure, your model can have a huge context window
00:16:04.740 --> 00:16:07.159
or millions of parameters, but they don't care
00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:09.600
about that. They care, is it going to help them
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:12.100
improve their customer satisfaction scores? Is
00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:13.960
it going to help them reduce costs? Is it going
00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:16.019
to help improve their human agent productivity?
00:16:16.580 --> 00:16:18.460
That's what they care about, those outcomes.
00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:22.700
Those are the capabilities you need to focus
00:16:22.700 --> 00:16:26.100
on as opposed to the features that you have that
00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:29.269
might sound cool. So that's what each of the
00:16:29.269 --> 00:16:34.169
five C's of the customer connect code do. So
00:16:34.169 --> 00:16:35.750
yeah, no, there's a lot of that. Cause like,
00:16:35.929 --> 00:16:37.370
as I'm going through your head, obviously it's
00:16:37.370 --> 00:16:40.289
my company, I'm trying to link in and do you
00:16:40.289 --> 00:16:42.429
find this a lot that a lot of times there's actually
00:16:42.429 --> 00:16:45.149
a disconnect from either owner or a board or
00:16:45.149 --> 00:16:47.929
management to what they actually fulfill? Like,
00:16:47.929 --> 00:16:49.570
like for example, you're talking about customers.
00:16:49.570 --> 00:16:51.490
And I would say I came from the real estate world
00:16:51.490 --> 00:16:53.409
initially. Whenever I saw real estate marketing,
00:16:53.949 --> 00:16:56.570
even though I know the number one mistake that
00:16:56.570 --> 00:16:58.490
they'd often make is they wouldn't go for a niche
00:16:58.490 --> 00:17:01.250
market, they would do the advertise everywhere
00:17:01.250 --> 00:17:05.190
strategy, which doesn't work. It seems pretty
00:17:05.190 --> 00:17:07.170
hard not to get stuck in that to try to make
00:17:07.170 --> 00:17:10.930
the customer everybody, right? Yeah. Or as you're
00:17:10.930 --> 00:17:13.809
talking about knowing, I can't remember what
00:17:13.809 --> 00:17:15.569
to say, but knowing the field that you're in.
00:17:16.769 --> 00:17:18.609
Sometimes it's easy to get stuck in saying this
00:17:18.609 --> 00:17:20.750
is this is who I think my competition is when
00:17:20.750 --> 00:17:23.250
they're really not Competition like I guess an
00:17:23.250 --> 00:17:25.289
example is I think of Tim Hortons and Starbucks
00:17:25.289 --> 00:17:27.349
They're both coffee shops, but they're not really
00:17:27.349 --> 00:17:29.950
competition to each other Cheap in -and -out
00:17:29.950 --> 00:17:32.170
coffee The other is you sit down and you enjoy
00:17:32.170 --> 00:17:33.970
and that's they're not trying to compete on that
00:17:33.970 --> 00:17:37.029
level, right? So where do you find a lot of these
00:17:37.029 --> 00:17:40.950
biggest disconnects come into play? Or the blind
00:17:40.950 --> 00:17:43.029
spots for either most owners or board members
00:17:43.029 --> 00:17:46.180
or whomever would be making the decision Yeah,
00:17:46.180 --> 00:17:49.400
so you've got you've got the people running the
00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:52.059
company like obviously the CEO the founder then
00:17:52.059 --> 00:17:56.500
the people working with that person Who are really
00:17:56.500 --> 00:17:58.420
trying to understand the customer connect with
00:17:58.420 --> 00:18:00.799
the customer meet with a customer and try to
00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:02.799
Connect the dots between what they offer and
00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:05.420
what they the customers need and at the board
00:18:05.420 --> 00:18:08.619
level. Yes They may want to have something that's
00:18:08.619 --> 00:18:11.160
yeah, they just want to get profits. They want
00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:14.150
to you know, make sure that they're um, always
00:18:14.150 --> 00:18:16.269
growing. And of course, that's, I mean, that's,
00:18:16.309 --> 00:18:20.349
that's their particular goal. But sometimes those
00:18:20.349 --> 00:18:22.490
goals need to be a little bit more long -term.
00:18:22.869 --> 00:18:24.789
If you're going to be able to connect with a
00:18:24.789 --> 00:18:28.190
customer, the right kind of customer, that's
00:18:28.190 --> 00:18:31.750
going to give you long -term value. Also to your
00:18:31.750 --> 00:18:34.529
other point about, you know, we're, we were talking
00:18:34.529 --> 00:18:36.089
about marketing to everyone versus no one will,
00:18:36.150 --> 00:18:37.569
you want to market everyone. So you can capture
00:18:37.569 --> 00:18:39.650
your, if you're marketing to everyone, you're
00:18:39.650 --> 00:18:45.829
wasting resources because Let's say your ads
00:18:45.829 --> 00:18:48.970
will be going to eyeballs that don't care. If
00:18:48.970 --> 00:18:52.430
I'm marketing to, again, let's sit with the customer
00:18:52.430 --> 00:18:56.130
service, customer experience example. If I'm
00:18:56.130 --> 00:19:01.950
sending marketing ads that go to people that
00:19:01.950 --> 00:19:10.430
are heads of HR or someone in a operations role,
00:19:10.970 --> 00:19:14.519
my contact center is a service. ads are not,
00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:16.359
they're going to fall on deaf ears. They're not
00:19:16.359 --> 00:19:18.400
for that person. So you're actually wasting money
00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:22.380
on that by going so broad. Also, when you try
00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:27.299
to, if the messaging is going that broad, the
00:19:27.299 --> 00:19:29.579
people that you are trying to reach, let's say
00:19:29.579 --> 00:19:32.859
those two other personas I've talked about and
00:19:32.859 --> 00:19:35.519
the VP of customer experience looks at your product,
00:19:36.259 --> 00:19:38.539
the messaging is going to be so generic, it doesn't
00:19:38.539 --> 00:19:40.259
resonate with them and so that they'll bypass
00:19:40.259 --> 00:19:43.609
it, right? So you're actually, it's a lose -lose
00:19:43.609 --> 00:19:46.369
situation. You're being so broad that it doesn't
00:19:46.369 --> 00:19:49.349
get to the people, it doesn't get in the right
00:19:49.349 --> 00:19:52.410
channels to the right people. And even if it
00:19:52.410 --> 00:19:54.549
does, that's a lower percentage that it's actually
00:19:54.549 --> 00:19:57.829
getting to. They may not recognize this for them
00:19:57.829 --> 00:20:00.869
because you tried to be so generic in what you're
00:20:00.869 --> 00:20:05.529
trying to offer for them. And automatically,
00:20:05.650 --> 00:20:07.450
I'm assuming like to go back to the AI versus
00:20:07.450 --> 00:20:09.289
human conversation, I feel like that would be
00:20:09.289 --> 00:20:11.309
one of the biggest differences. Like already
00:20:11.309 --> 00:20:12.990
in this conversation talking about marketing,
00:20:13.170 --> 00:20:15.890
I'm already in the way my brain works. They start
00:20:15.890 --> 00:20:18.349
to narrow down paths of where I'd be right or
00:20:18.349 --> 00:20:22.529
wrong or what I'm doing right or wrong. And these
00:20:22.529 --> 00:20:24.250
are things AI doesn't really read into. They
00:20:24.250 --> 00:20:28.170
don't understand a generic pitch for the VP is
00:20:28.170 --> 00:20:31.950
different than for the production manager. It
00:20:31.950 --> 00:20:34.130
gives you that one generic pitch. That's interesting.
00:20:34.769 --> 00:20:36.470
Yeah. Well, I mean, think about it. A lot of
00:20:36.470 --> 00:20:39.259
these models that we're working with, our general
00:20:39.259 --> 00:20:43.519
world knowledge models. So that's how it's going
00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:46.400
to give you general information or generic information.
00:20:46.980 --> 00:20:48.940
So that's why you have to be very specific and
00:20:48.940 --> 00:20:51.200
understand your persona to know talk about their
00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:54.000
specific pains and their specific goals and then
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:57.799
create messaging and get into the channels that
00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:01.059
they are going to access. Do you find your world
00:21:01.059 --> 00:21:02.819
different in that? Like the customer coming a
00:21:02.819 --> 00:21:05.799
lot more informed with a base plan? Because I
00:21:05.799 --> 00:21:07.400
can see what you're talking about, but I know
00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:08.859
a lot of other marketing people I've spoken to.
00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:10.720
I'm curious if you're the same way. They've used
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:14.640
AI for this rough boundary, right? Or customer
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.240
I could see using AI for this rough framework,
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:21.359
for lack of a better word. But as you said, it
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:22.839
would just be a giant waste of money in a lot
00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:24.700
of cases. Did you find that the customer now
00:21:24.700 --> 00:21:26.900
is more educated or do you find AI is just straight
00:21:26.900 --> 00:21:32.579
up leading people astray? It depends on the situation,
00:21:32.859 --> 00:21:37.220
but some customers are educated. But the key
00:21:37.220 --> 00:21:42.099
is for me as a marketer and for me to help the
00:21:42.099 --> 00:21:44.819
marketing of these AI companies is you are part
00:21:44.819 --> 00:21:50.339
of your job is to educate. One, educate yourself
00:21:50.339 --> 00:21:52.839
first on what they need, the customer needs.
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:56.579
But then two, once you are able to understand
00:21:56.579 --> 00:21:59.619
what they need and tie what you have. have to
00:21:59.619 --> 00:22:02.099
fill those, to solve those problems that they
00:22:02.099 --> 00:22:05.099
have. Then you come in to educate them. I'm like,
00:22:05.099 --> 00:22:09.220
Hey, guess what? I know your problem. I have
00:22:09.220 --> 00:22:12.140
a solution to your problem. And by the way, it
00:22:12.140 --> 00:22:15.299
just uses AI to do it. So you come in and educate
00:22:15.299 --> 00:22:18.000
them on how, what, what problem you're solving
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.359
for them and how you do it. Then that's where
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:25.359
there can be a lot of momentum. Yeah. I love
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:28.680
that too, because. In many ways, I do find that
00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:32.220
with AI, it's a great tool, but it's not designed,
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:33.720
like my wife and I talked about it the other
00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:36.480
day, it's not designed to create, it's almost
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:39.019
more designed to recreate, if that makes sense.
00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:42.660
Yes, absolutely. Reorganize. I keep messing up
00:22:42.660 --> 00:22:44.480
that word, I gotta stop trying to use it, but
00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:47.599
that human spark that just doesn't exist within
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:51.490
AI, because... Before I got into real estate,
00:22:51.509 --> 00:22:53.609
I didn't realize that markets were almost like
00:22:53.609 --> 00:22:56.089
a living, breathing thing that is like navigating
00:22:56.089 --> 00:22:57.390
through it. I thought they were just numbers.
00:22:58.089 --> 00:22:59.609
And the more I'm talking, like even the more
00:22:59.609 --> 00:23:01.130
in this conversation, I'm beginning to realize
00:23:01.130 --> 00:23:04.130
marketing I'm imagining is actually a very big
00:23:04.130 --> 00:23:08.049
living and breathing thing because my forte as
00:23:08.049 --> 00:23:10.130
an owner is not to keep track of these trends,
00:23:10.130 --> 00:23:12.450
but your forte is to be like exactly what you're
00:23:12.450 --> 00:23:14.250
saying. What is the customer really looking for?
00:23:14.269 --> 00:23:16.490
Because the VP today, their needs are probably
00:23:16.490 --> 00:23:19.839
vastly different than it was a year ago. So that
00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:22.099
messaging would come across differently as well.
00:23:22.099 --> 00:23:26.619
Would that be accurate? Yes, absolutely Yeah,
00:23:26.619 --> 00:23:31.119
you got to be able to You have to you have to
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:35.619
niche down more than you think in order to message
00:23:35.619 --> 00:23:39.980
to people because You might think oh, I'm gonna
00:23:39.980 --> 00:23:43.119
be losing out on all these other Opportunities
00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:47.119
all these other personas, but if you niche down
00:23:47.339 --> 00:23:50.400
the more you resonate with that particular persona,
00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:53.400
the more they're going to pay attention. Right.
00:23:54.299 --> 00:23:56.059
All right. So let's dive into this. So we talked
00:23:56.059 --> 00:23:57.579
a little bit about the book and the framework.
00:23:58.200 --> 00:23:59.640
What else are we going to get out of the book?
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:02.500
So if I'm going to go ahead as an owner, as an
00:24:02.500 --> 00:24:05.059
entrepreneur, what else am I going to gather
00:24:05.059 --> 00:24:07.420
out of the book? And then just so you know where
00:24:07.420 --> 00:24:09.960
this is going to go to, how does that transition
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:13.630
and what is it like when I bring you on? how
00:24:13.630 --> 00:24:15.950
does my world shake up? What does that process
00:24:15.950 --> 00:24:18.970
look like? So people have an expectation of what
00:24:18.970 --> 00:24:21.809
it is. Sure. So two things you get out of it.
00:24:21.849 --> 00:24:23.670
One, you get a sneak preview of how it will be
00:24:23.670 --> 00:24:25.349
like to work with me and all the systems that
00:24:25.349 --> 00:24:27.369
I can create because you can read it and get
00:24:27.369 --> 00:24:28.930
an idea of it. And hopefully that helps you like
00:24:28.930 --> 00:24:31.589
a little bit. But when it comes to doing the
00:24:31.589 --> 00:24:34.750
execution of it, that's when I can helping with
00:24:34.750 --> 00:24:39.519
the customized strategy for your particular company,
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:41.599
that's where I can come in and say, hey, let's
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:43.960
work together on this. And I can make this work
00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:46.819
in your particular case. And then the second
00:24:46.819 --> 00:24:48.839
thing is you actually get entertainment value
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:51.839
out of it. Reason being it's a business parable.
00:24:52.420 --> 00:24:54.339
So instead of it being a straight nonfiction
00:24:54.339 --> 00:24:56.720
where you just read a bunch of facts, this is
00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:01.980
actually a story. So in a way, it's a meta way
00:25:01.980 --> 00:25:05.680
of teaching how I use my own methodology of you
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:08.339
want to sell store. The subtitle of the book
00:25:08.339 --> 00:25:11.059
is turning AI into stories that win customers.
00:25:11.980 --> 00:25:15.920
So for me, I'm selling my services. I turn my
00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:18.980
services into a story itself using this book.
00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:23.299
Nice. See, I just, for the record, I love it
00:25:23.299 --> 00:25:24.900
when books are actually doing that too. That's
00:25:24.900 --> 00:25:27.759
absolutely amazing. I want to make sure that
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:30.480
is the correct website, right? Thunderwolf .co?
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:33.220
That's exactly right. That's the one. Awesome.
00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:35.700
Now, other than the website, Josh, where else
00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:39.099
can people find you? You can find me on LinkedIn.
00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:41.960
I post content on there three or four times a
00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:47.819
week. Those two channels, my website or LinkedIn
00:25:47.819 --> 00:25:49.579
is going to be the piece. Or if you're looking
00:25:49.579 --> 00:25:52.460
directly for the book, it's on Amazon, Barnes
00:25:52.460 --> 00:25:56.240
& Noble, any major retailer. Awesome. I have
00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:58.599
to say it's funny, the LinkedIn thing. I'm very
00:25:58.599 --> 00:26:01.140
big on LinkedIn now, but in the real estate world.
00:26:01.289 --> 00:26:04.230
Years ago, we were taught never to get on LinkedIn
00:26:04.230 --> 00:26:06.430
as a real estate agent. That is pointless There's
00:26:06.430 --> 00:26:09.269
no customers on there blah blah. What a waste
00:26:09.269 --> 00:26:11.730
man. I am so angry with myself for not having
00:26:11.730 --> 00:26:14.390
a 16 years of account built up now and having
00:26:14.390 --> 00:26:18.670
this Awesome, man. Well, I appreciate I appreciate
00:26:18.670 --> 00:26:21.329
this conversation. I appreciate coming on final
00:26:21.329 --> 00:26:24.029
thought man I'll leave leave the audience with
00:26:24.029 --> 00:26:27.210
with the one thing to kind of To think about
00:26:27.210 --> 00:26:30.460
to resonate on as we finish up here Sure thing.
00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:33.279
So for any AI scale up founders or go to market
00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:38.259
leaders, you don't have to be stuck with trying
00:26:38.259 --> 00:26:41.480
to explain everything that you offer to your
00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:44.980
customers. If you can simplify into a story that
00:26:44.980 --> 00:26:47.180
will resonate with them, then you will be able
00:26:47.180 --> 00:26:49.240
to land more business. And that's what I can
00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:52.950
help you do. Awesome. So the book is The Last
00:26:52.950 --> 00:26:56.710
Human Marketer on Amazon. I do highly recommend
00:26:56.710 --> 00:26:59.069
it, and my reading list is getting larger and
00:26:59.069 --> 00:27:00.230
larger. It's one of those things I love about
00:27:00.230 --> 00:27:03.009
doing these podcasts is I ran out of gym material,
00:27:03.029 --> 00:27:05.130
so I am back on it. Is it in audio, by the way?
00:27:06.269 --> 00:27:09.930
It will be coming soon. Not yet, but soon. Cool.
00:27:10.269 --> 00:27:11.869
All right, man. Well, I really appreciate Josh
00:27:11.869 --> 00:27:15.390
coming on. Yeah, everybody, please check it out.
00:27:15.929 --> 00:27:18.269
As we start to dive in, especially on the show
00:27:18.269 --> 00:27:20.529
and having more of a marketing conversation,
00:27:21.069 --> 00:27:23.210
I really hope one of the things people are getting
00:27:23.210 --> 00:27:27.410
to grasp is, and like one other thing, or I guess
00:27:27.410 --> 00:27:29.329
kind of like, what's the best way to say it?
00:27:30.029 --> 00:27:32.349
Anybody can go in and figure out how to fix their
00:27:32.349 --> 00:27:35.049
car on YouTube, but not everybody knows the inner
00:27:35.049 --> 00:27:37.930
workings of how a car actually works. And this
00:27:37.930 --> 00:27:40.529
is the same with marketing. I think when we have
00:27:40.529 --> 00:27:43.509
things like AI and Fiverr, and I'm nothing against
00:27:43.509 --> 00:27:44.970
Fiverr, I know there's a lot of great people
00:27:44.970 --> 00:27:46.349
on there, but when you have these things that
00:27:46.349 --> 00:27:49.029
make marketing look easy, and you have these
00:27:49.029 --> 00:27:50.890
guides that make marketing look easy, it gives
00:27:50.890 --> 00:27:52.890
us the assumption that anybody to do it, and
00:27:52.890 --> 00:27:55.470
any small business can do it. And then if you're
00:27:55.470 --> 00:27:57.769
anything like me, you've spent months and thousands
00:27:57.769 --> 00:28:00.170
of dollars and frustrated that it hasn't converted
00:28:00.170 --> 00:28:03.029
into any clients. It's not that the marketing
00:28:03.029 --> 00:28:06.329
doesn't work, it's your marketing currently may
00:28:06.329 --> 00:28:10.180
not be working. And I do highly recommend, talk
00:28:10.180 --> 00:28:13.059
to a human being. I'm sure the vast majority
00:28:13.059 --> 00:28:15.500
of owners you speak to now will be utilizing
00:28:15.500 --> 00:28:18.920
AI in some way, shape or form. The difference
00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:20.980
is if you're someone like Josh or someone like
00:28:20.980 --> 00:28:23.519
myself, we are not using it to replace us. We're
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:26.319
using it to enhance the tools, enhance the creativity
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:29.059
and streamline the process. At the end of the
00:28:29.059 --> 00:28:31.440
day though, you still want a real person navigating
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:35.450
the ship. Absolutely. All right. Awesome, Josh.
00:28:35.609 --> 00:28:37.009
Thank you so much. Thank you, everybody, for
00:28:37.009 --> 00:28:38.910
listening, and we'll see you all in a few days.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.220
we're building tomorrow but we're human today
00:00:03.220 --> 00:00:05.820
where technology meets us and ideas lead the
00:00:05.820 --> 00:00:08.300
way from business to connection from vision into
00:00:08.300 --> 00:00:10.560
sound we turn the boldest ideas into something
00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:13.119
real and loud the synthetic echo where human
00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:15.619
meets machine create a bill to grow it push beyond
00:00:15.619 --> 00:00:18.519
what you have seen the synthetic echo the future
00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:25.739
starts right here Good morning, good afternoon,
00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:27.640
good evening, or good night, depending on what
00:00:27.640 --> 00:00:28.980
time you're listening and when you're listening.
00:00:29.140 --> 00:00:31.760
Welcome to The Synthetic Echo. I am your host,
00:00:31.940 --> 00:00:33.880
Nathan Graham, and this is where we talk about
00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:36.079
where humanity meets technology for the most
00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:39.740
part. Today, again, always excited to have guests.
00:00:40.219 --> 00:00:42.920
I appreciate it. My guest today is Josh Porter
00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:47.020
with a career -leading marketing for companies
00:00:47.020 --> 00:00:49.990
like Google Cloud and numerous AI startups. He's
00:00:49.990 --> 00:00:52.950
seen firsthand why even the most brilliant technology
00:00:52.950 --> 00:00:56.090
often fails to connect with the people it's meant
00:00:56.090 --> 00:00:59.509
to serve. He argues that a world awash in AI,
00:00:59.909 --> 00:01:02.509
the key isn't more automation, but deeper humanity.
00:01:02.909 --> 00:01:05.670
He's the author of The Last Human Marketer. And
00:01:05.670 --> 00:01:07.650
today we're going to explore the critical question.
00:01:08.049 --> 00:01:10.609
How do you craft the story that turns complex
00:01:10.609 --> 00:01:13.269
technology into something customers will finally
00:01:13.269 --> 00:01:16.469
understand, believe, and buy? Welcome to the
00:01:16.469 --> 00:01:18.329
show, Josh. I hope all of that was correct, by
00:01:18.329 --> 00:01:22.299
the way. I let AI run my whole life, so. Yeah,
00:01:22.299 --> 00:01:24.019
no, that was good. That was good. I appreciate
00:01:24.019 --> 00:01:27.299
it. Happy to be here. So yeah, for the listeners
00:01:27.299 --> 00:01:29.000
out there, let's let's dive into it. Tell us
00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:30.799
a bit about yourself. Tell us what you do, what
00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:34.260
you love to do, everything like that. Awesome,
00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:37.500
so I run a consulting practice called Thunder
00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:41.540
Wolf Consulting, where I work with AI scale ups
00:01:41.540 --> 00:01:46.340
to do their marketing and a lot of times I'll
00:01:46.340 --> 00:01:51.049
come in and. help with their ability to tell
00:01:51.049 --> 00:01:54.450
a story behind the AI as opposed to just what
00:01:54.450 --> 00:01:58.069
the AI does or can do for customers. So that's
00:01:58.069 --> 00:02:01.750
what I do. And as you mentioned in the bio, I've
00:02:01.750 --> 00:02:04.109
worked at a few different startups, worked in
00:02:04.109 --> 00:02:09.229
AI for since 2018, doing marketing for that so
00:02:09.229 --> 00:02:11.569
well before the hype cycle. So excited to be
00:02:11.569 --> 00:02:14.889
here to talk about the book that... gives a little
00:02:14.889 --> 00:02:16.909
bit of a sneak preview of what I can offer to
00:02:16.909 --> 00:02:20.030
AI scale -ups. Awesome. So let's kind of start
00:02:20.030 --> 00:02:21.969
there. When you talk about an AI -based business,
00:02:22.050 --> 00:02:24.750
are you talking about an AI -generated SaaS program,
00:02:24.909 --> 00:02:26.849
someone who's looking to implement AI, someone
00:02:26.849 --> 00:02:29.389
who has a company that's around, I guess, just
00:02:29.389 --> 00:02:31.969
around AI software? What sort of company is that
00:02:31.969 --> 00:02:34.289
like so people get an idea of really what's out
00:02:34.289 --> 00:02:36.349
there for a whole new line of work? Absolutely.
00:02:36.650 --> 00:02:40.750
So it's not AI for marketing. It's marketing
00:02:40.750 --> 00:02:44.889
for AI products. The way that I categorized AI
00:02:44.889 --> 00:02:48.449
tech stack is at the top layer, you have the
00:02:48.449 --> 00:02:51.629
application layer. So that's any kind of business
00:02:51.629 --> 00:02:57.530
user app that is ready to go without any developer
00:02:57.530 --> 00:02:59.909
knowledge necessary. And then you've got the
00:02:59.909 --> 00:03:03.650
platform layer, which is geared more for developers
00:03:03.650 --> 00:03:06.150
so that they can build those types of applications
00:03:06.150 --> 00:03:08.129
that I mentioned earlier so that non -technical
00:03:08.129 --> 00:03:12.530
users can use it. And then you've got the model
00:03:12.530 --> 00:03:18.270
layer which is, as many of us are familiar with,
00:03:18.509 --> 00:03:20.990
the foundation models that are enabled. They're
00:03:20.990 --> 00:03:27.169
the engines of our AI interface. And then below
00:03:27.169 --> 00:03:30.669
that is the infrastructure layer. So the chips,
00:03:30.710 --> 00:03:33.870
the hardware that actually powers all of those
00:03:33.870 --> 00:03:37.750
capabilities. So those are the types of companies,
00:03:38.349 --> 00:03:40.990
the companies in those layers that I do marketing
00:03:40.990 --> 00:03:44.580
for. Awesome. I love it because I'm in that software
00:03:44.580 --> 00:03:46.379
development layer. Actually, while we're here,
00:03:46.500 --> 00:03:49.099
I have my Alice, my coding agent coding things
00:03:49.099 --> 00:03:51.159
as we're talking because that's what frees up
00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:54.139
time. So it's always a fantastic part to it.
00:03:54.280 --> 00:03:56.800
So what does that look like? I had a conversation
00:03:56.800 --> 00:04:00.560
with a few marketing individuals before, and
00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:05.060
it does seem to be a common thing that in. And
00:04:05.060 --> 00:04:06.319
this might sound challenging, I don't mean it
00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:09.560
to be challenging, but in a world where AI can
00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:15.860
take over so much. justify why a human touch
00:04:15.860 --> 00:04:18.500
is still needed. Because it's funny, I was in
00:04:18.500 --> 00:04:20.319
a call this morning and we were talking about
00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:22.759
how we can get LinkedIn to juice up our profiles,
00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:25.399
to create our things. We just tell it, hey, my
00:04:25.399 --> 00:04:27.560
Facebook sucks, make it better. My website sucks,
00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:30.259
make it better. And it does all these things.
00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:33.699
Now I'm an advocate for human intervention. So
00:04:33.699 --> 00:04:35.420
explain to me why, like what is the difference
00:04:35.420 --> 00:04:38.500
between me doing that, say with AI like Claude
00:04:38.500 --> 00:04:41.550
or with actually doing it with a person? Yeah.
00:04:42.129 --> 00:04:44.089
So, and this is one of the arguments that I make
00:04:44.089 --> 00:04:46.810
within my book, The Last Human Marketer, about
00:04:46.810 --> 00:04:51.649
how having that human insight is really key because
00:04:51.649 --> 00:04:55.269
with AI, you can have all these very logical
00:04:55.269 --> 00:04:59.649
arguments and create content that seems very
00:04:59.649 --> 00:05:05.009
logical. But the piece to this is you've got
00:05:05.009 --> 00:05:09.230
to have an empathy towards the audience that
00:05:09.230 --> 00:05:15.000
you're talking to. And so when you spout facts
00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:18.740
and figures, that's great. But usually those
00:05:18.740 --> 00:05:21.379
things don't convince people. I can talk all
00:05:21.379 --> 00:05:23.779
day long about the features that any of those
00:05:23.779 --> 00:05:27.220
AI products and any of that stack that I mentioned
00:05:27.220 --> 00:05:35.019
could be superior to the competition or make
00:05:35.019 --> 00:05:40.350
you do your projects faster. But the key thing
00:05:40.350 --> 00:05:45.350
is, if you're not talking about somebody's pain,
00:05:45.889 --> 00:05:48.410
and you're not identifying with that pain, like
00:05:48.410 --> 00:05:52.290
being able to, if you're in the customer service
00:05:52.290 --> 00:05:58.350
area, trying to reduce the amount of issues that
00:05:58.350 --> 00:06:01.230
somebody has to deal with on a call or trying
00:06:01.230 --> 00:06:04.230
to improve their customer satisfaction. If you're
00:06:04.230 --> 00:06:06.889
trying to sell that kind of technology to a vendor,
00:06:08.139 --> 00:06:10.279
The best way you're going to identify with that
00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:12.420
is having empathy for that person that you're
00:06:12.420 --> 00:06:15.100
selling it to. So instead of just organizing
00:06:15.100 --> 00:06:17.199
a bunch of facts and figures, if you're able
00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:19.720
to create a narrative, a story around that to
00:06:19.720 --> 00:06:22.459
show that, hey, one, I get you. Two, I understand
00:06:22.459 --> 00:06:24.519
your pain. And three, let me tell you a story
00:06:24.519 --> 00:06:30.620
about how we can fix that pain. That is the best
00:06:30.620 --> 00:06:32.620
way that you're able to connect with customers,
00:06:33.060 --> 00:06:35.339
not just through simply using AI to say, Tell
00:06:35.339 --> 00:06:38.019
me the top three features that this product offers.
00:06:38.699 --> 00:06:41.420
Well, it's funny, as a designer myself, I get
00:06:41.420 --> 00:06:44.300
caught up in that because I have all these tools
00:06:44.300 --> 00:06:46.259
and I'm like, Josh, you got it. I got to show
00:06:46.259 --> 00:06:48.319
you, man. This has this built into it. It has
00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:50.000
that built into it. Now you would probably know,
00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:51.680
but the vast majority of people have no clue
00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:53.819
what I'm talking about. My business partner is
00:06:53.819 --> 00:06:56.379
not a technological partner. He's a financial
00:06:56.379 --> 00:06:58.519
guy. And so he often gets on me whenever I'm
00:06:58.519 --> 00:07:00.420
presenting to be like, dude, you got to tone
00:07:00.420 --> 00:07:03.680
it down. We're having a problem here. They don't
00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:08.759
care that Claude is in this, right? Yes. It's
00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:11.259
interesting because in the end, I think most
00:07:11.259 --> 00:07:13.420
people don't care if it's black magic doing the
00:07:13.420 --> 00:07:17.540
work. It's what is the outcome that comes from
00:07:17.540 --> 00:07:20.600
using this particular tool. If it's AI that helps
00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:23.639
make it happen, great, but nobody's tripping
00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:26.680
over themselves because AI is doing this, oh,
00:07:26.699 --> 00:07:30.459
my life is going to be so much better. some hocus
00:07:30.459 --> 00:07:32.959
pocus in the background for all they care. But
00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:34.879
as long as it's getting the outcomes that they're
00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:38.439
looking for, that's the key. And that's why using
00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:41.860
stories and empathy help you connect with customers
00:07:41.860 --> 00:07:44.639
in a better way. Okay. So if there's a company
00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:46.120
owner out there, like it's funny, I've never
00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:47.819
asked a marketing person this question and there
00:07:47.819 --> 00:07:50.500
may not even be an answer to it. But what does
00:07:50.500 --> 00:07:52.040
that turnaround time look like? Because a lot
00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:53.560
of times, if you're dealing with a startup, they
00:07:53.560 --> 00:07:55.459
don't often have the budgets to go into marketing.
00:07:55.959 --> 00:07:57.959
They just go do what they want to do. And maybe
00:07:57.959 --> 00:07:59.279
they get a little bit lucky, they get a little
00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:00.579
bit of money in, and now they want to bring in
00:08:00.579 --> 00:08:02.639
a marketer. What does that turnaround time, how
00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:05.300
long does it usually take from the point where
00:08:05.300 --> 00:08:07.639
they hire you for their company to be known by
00:08:07.639 --> 00:08:10.000
the message that you're trying to deliver? Or
00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:11.720
is that even how it works? Does that make sense?
00:08:12.899 --> 00:08:16.819
Sure. So yeah, it works a little bit differently.
00:08:17.769 --> 00:08:20.610
A lot of these companies that I've worked with
00:08:20.610 --> 00:08:23.529
are past product market fit, meaning they're
00:08:23.529 --> 00:08:26.529
around 5 to 20 million revenues. So they're not
00:08:26.529 --> 00:08:32.330
the tiny startups that are just getting off the
00:08:32.330 --> 00:08:34.330
ground, but they're also not the large enterprises
00:08:34.330 --> 00:08:38.230
or household names. So for me, what I do is I
00:08:38.230 --> 00:08:40.350
come in to, once they've got this product market
00:08:40.350 --> 00:08:42.110
fit, obviously there's enough people that are
00:08:42.110 --> 00:08:45.009
interested in what they're offering. I come in
00:08:45.009 --> 00:08:49.070
to help them position themselves and create the
00:08:49.070 --> 00:08:52.669
messaging around them so that they can differentiate
00:08:52.669 --> 00:08:56.230
themselves amongst the competition. And so they're
00:08:56.230 --> 00:08:58.250
going to be in a particular space, whether that's
00:08:58.250 --> 00:09:01.350
customer experience for AI or it's app building
00:09:01.350 --> 00:09:07.009
for AI. Having that, understanding that space
00:09:07.009 --> 00:09:10.110
is where I come in and say, all right, here's
00:09:10.110 --> 00:09:13.450
where you are in this. Here's the customer that
00:09:13.450 --> 00:09:19.549
you're trying to reach. Here are the channels
00:09:19.549 --> 00:09:23.590
that you are trying, you're able to reach them
00:09:23.590 --> 00:09:27.529
in, whether that's podcasts or newsletters or
00:09:27.529 --> 00:09:31.370
search capabilities. Here are the categories
00:09:31.370 --> 00:09:34.250
that you're competing in. So what's the market
00:09:34.250 --> 00:09:37.490
category that you're part of that these customers
00:09:37.490 --> 00:09:41.830
might think of you being part of? And then who
00:09:41.830 --> 00:09:45.210
is the competition in that area? who are the
00:09:45.210 --> 00:09:47.070
direct and indirect competitors? And then what
00:09:47.070 --> 00:09:50.850
are your capabilities? So that's what I come
00:09:50.850 --> 00:09:52.509
in and help these customers with. And that's
00:09:52.509 --> 00:09:54.649
what, again, is covered in the last human market
00:09:54.649 --> 00:09:58.070
or this framework of how I work with them. So
00:09:58.070 --> 00:10:00.309
I call it the customer connect code. Those are
00:10:00.309 --> 00:10:03.250
the five C's. So to recap, it's the customer,
00:10:03.490 --> 00:10:05.950
the channels, the category, the competition,
00:10:05.950 --> 00:10:10.710
and the capability. So that's how I work with
00:10:10.710 --> 00:10:14.309
these AI scale ups to help organize and systemize
00:10:14.330 --> 00:10:17.230
the way they tell their story. So, okay, so let's
00:10:17.230 --> 00:10:19.330
dive into those five C's. Is that, and actually
00:10:19.330 --> 00:10:21.090
before we dive into that, is that the framework
00:10:21.090 --> 00:10:22.970
of where the book is generated around? Are those
00:10:22.970 --> 00:10:25.549
five C's kind of, okay, so let's dive into it.
00:10:26.470 --> 00:10:29.230
Take me through the process, but don't give away
00:10:29.230 --> 00:10:30.909
everything. Still make it that everybody has
00:10:30.909 --> 00:10:32.990
to buy your book. So take it through the process.
00:10:33.429 --> 00:10:35.330
Are those five C's first of all in order? Do
00:10:35.330 --> 00:10:37.649
we always start with customer? Yes, you always
00:10:37.649 --> 00:10:39.830
start with the customer because marketing in
00:10:39.830 --> 00:10:41.490
one -on -one is understanding your audience.
00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:43.480
You don't understand your audience. Everything
00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:46.879
you do after that won't resonate, won't land.
00:10:47.700 --> 00:10:49.879
So you got to understand the customer. So what
00:10:49.879 --> 00:10:52.320
does the customer look like in your case? So
00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:55.419
that's all about understanding what are the kind
00:10:55.419 --> 00:10:59.240
of key personas that you're working with? Well,
00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:01.460
first off, you understand the ideal company profile,
00:11:01.559 --> 00:11:04.500
the ideal customer profile. What are the firmographics?
00:11:04.580 --> 00:11:06.700
What are the technographics of these types of
00:11:06.700 --> 00:11:10.600
companies that you are serving? And then understanding
00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:14.299
that you look at the persona. The customer is
00:11:14.299 --> 00:11:18.179
titled as the VP of customer experience or it
00:11:18.179 --> 00:11:22.019
could be the chief supply chain officer, depending
00:11:22.019 --> 00:11:25.360
on what the customer or the company that you're
00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:28.500
trying to sell into. So once you understand and
00:11:28.500 --> 00:11:32.000
then I try to break it down into what are their
00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:34.220
business drivers or their goals? What are their
00:11:34.220 --> 00:11:39.659
pains? What are the What are the paths that do
00:11:39.659 --> 00:11:43.559
for purchasing these types of tools? So that's
00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:46.279
the key in understanding these personas who you're
00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:48.419
writing to. Because when you do messaging, you're
00:11:48.419 --> 00:11:50.220
writing. And when you write, you need to write
00:11:50.220 --> 00:11:52.820
to readers. Who are the readers? These customers.
00:11:53.419 --> 00:11:55.179
So the more you understand about them, the better
00:11:55.179 --> 00:11:57.759
you can read. You can write to them. Because
00:11:57.759 --> 00:12:00.139
if you're marketing or writing to everyone, then
00:12:00.139 --> 00:12:04.100
you're writing or marketing to no one. So that's
00:12:04.100 --> 00:12:06.179
the key. That's the foundation. So then the next
00:12:06.179 --> 00:12:09.279
step is the channel. Well, great, you can write
00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:12.740
amazing messaging to them, but if it's not reaching
00:12:12.740 --> 00:12:14.259
them, then it doesn't matter. It's just falling
00:12:14.259 --> 00:12:17.019
on deaf ears. So you need to understand where
00:12:17.019 --> 00:12:18.620
are they looking for this type of information.
00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:20.840
So then you understand the channels that they're
00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:23.100
looking at. So it could be podcasts, it could
00:12:23.100 --> 00:12:27.080
be newsletters, it could be AI search, it could
00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:32.519
be conferences or influencers. So you got to
00:12:32.519 --> 00:12:34.139
understand the channels that they're looking
00:12:34.139 --> 00:12:36.080
for. They may be looking for referrals from their
00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:39.679
peers. Understanding these things to know once
00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:41.940
you know who you're talking to and what to say
00:12:41.940 --> 00:12:44.240
to them You need to know how to reach them. So
00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:47.919
that's where channels come into play Now then
00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:49.580
it's the category. Okay, once you understand
00:12:49.580 --> 00:12:52.679
who to talk to and how to talk to them then it's
00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:56.600
what is the what's the Arena that you're playing
00:12:56.600 --> 00:12:59.919
in that they recognize and they understand so
00:12:59.919 --> 00:13:02.539
they understand them. They have a problem They're
00:13:02.539 --> 00:13:05.279
gonna think about a specific category of tools
00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:08.750
that can help them So this category, this market
00:13:08.750 --> 00:13:13.250
category is where are you playing against people
00:13:13.250 --> 00:13:16.309
that also try to solve that same problem? So
00:13:16.309 --> 00:13:18.570
again, if you're in customer experience, you're
00:13:18.570 --> 00:13:20.970
trying to solve for trying to help you improve
00:13:20.970 --> 00:13:22.750
your customer satisfaction and efficiencies,
00:13:22.990 --> 00:13:24.450
you're going to be looking at the contact centers
00:13:24.450 --> 00:13:28.730
of service category. So you need to understand
00:13:28.730 --> 00:13:31.169
what are the other players in that category,
00:13:31.190 --> 00:13:32.889
but also even more importantly, who are the influencers
00:13:32.889 --> 00:13:35.049
in that category? You've got analysts. So if
00:13:35.049 --> 00:13:41.559
you look at Gartner, Forrester, IDC, the analysts
00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:45.559
segment themselves according to different domains
00:13:45.559 --> 00:13:48.500
or different categories. So you look at that
00:13:48.500 --> 00:13:51.059
and you have to look at other informal influencers
00:13:51.059 --> 00:13:54.840
for that. You also have to look at the partnerships
00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:59.240
that are specifically for that category. So understanding
00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:02.639
that market category you're in is the next key
00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:06.200
piece. And then after that, Once you understand
00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:07.799
the category, then it's easy to understand who's
00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:10.019
the competition. So you've got direct competitors
00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:11.539
and indirect competitors. Direct competitors
00:14:11.539 --> 00:14:13.940
are the me -tos, right? They do the same thing.
00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.919
If we're going with the CCAS example, the contact
00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:19.700
center as a service, they're going to offer similar
00:14:19.700 --> 00:14:22.240
features and products. And then you also have
00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:25.480
indirect competitors that are things like spreadsheets.
00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:27.279
People just always default to spreadsheets or
00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:30.360
like other internal tools. So understanding what
00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:34.700
the competition is in that area. is really key
00:14:34.700 --> 00:14:36.379
because that's how you're going to be able to
00:14:36.379 --> 00:14:37.899
differentiate yourself. You can't differentiate
00:14:37.899 --> 00:14:40.039
yourself if you don't understand your competition.
00:14:40.620 --> 00:14:42.279
It's very much like playing any kind of game.
00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:45.399
You have to understand a board game or sports.
00:14:46.100 --> 00:14:48.919
You do need to understand the competition in
00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:50.960
order to play against them because you can't
00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:56.340
just use your general playbook and not understand
00:14:56.340 --> 00:14:58.720
who it is you're playing against. So I'm a big
00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:01.129
baseball fan. you know, you got to think about
00:15:01.129 --> 00:15:04.169
like if... Whereabouts you're from again? What's
00:15:04.169 --> 00:15:06.750
that? Whereabouts you're from again? Oh, New
00:15:06.750 --> 00:15:09.710
York. So I'm a Yankees fan. I'm a Blue Jays fan,
00:15:10.090 --> 00:15:14.190
so... Oh, yes. So the Yankees... Yes, absolutely.
00:15:14.350 --> 00:15:16.409
So you got to... The Yankees have to understand
00:15:16.409 --> 00:15:18.269
the Blue Jays, you know, their players and how
00:15:18.269 --> 00:15:20.309
they work, how the pitches are going to be coming
00:15:20.309 --> 00:15:21.950
to them, those types of things, right? Same thing
00:15:21.950 --> 00:15:25.289
with, you know, B2B SaaS. You have to... Software
00:15:25.289 --> 00:15:27.610
as a service. Business to business software as
00:15:27.610 --> 00:15:30.649
a service. So you have to... understand how your
00:15:30.649 --> 00:15:32.590
competition works in order to differentiate yourself
00:15:32.590 --> 00:15:34.570
or even play against them, position yourself
00:15:34.570 --> 00:15:37.710
against. So that's the competition. And the last
00:15:37.710 --> 00:15:43.850
C is capability. So it's not what your product
00:15:43.850 --> 00:15:46.850
is, it's what it does. What does it do for your
00:15:46.850 --> 00:15:49.230
customer? Again, going all the way back to the
00:15:49.230 --> 00:15:52.009
beginning, who are you talking to? What does
00:15:52.009 --> 00:15:54.409
your product do for a customer? What are the
00:15:54.409 --> 00:16:00.960
outcomes that make them have happen? Because
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:04.740
sure, your model can have a huge context window
00:16:04.740 --> 00:16:07.159
or millions of parameters, but they don't care
00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:09.600
about that. They care, is it going to help them
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:12.100
improve their customer satisfaction scores? Is
00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:13.960
it going to help them reduce costs? Is it going
00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:16.019
to help improve their human agent productivity?
00:16:16.580 --> 00:16:18.460
That's what they care about, those outcomes.
00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:22.700
Those are the capabilities you need to focus
00:16:22.700 --> 00:16:26.100
on as opposed to the features that you have that
00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:29.269
might sound cool. So that's what each of the
00:16:29.269 --> 00:16:34.169
five C's of the customer connect code do. So
00:16:34.169 --> 00:16:35.750
yeah, no, there's a lot of that. Cause like,
00:16:35.929 --> 00:16:37.370
as I'm going through your head, obviously it's
00:16:37.370 --> 00:16:40.289
my company, I'm trying to link in and do you
00:16:40.289 --> 00:16:42.429
find this a lot that a lot of times there's actually
00:16:42.429 --> 00:16:45.149
a disconnect from either owner or a board or
00:16:45.149 --> 00:16:47.929
management to what they actually fulfill? Like,
00:16:47.929 --> 00:16:49.570
like for example, you're talking about customers.
00:16:49.570 --> 00:16:51.490
And I would say I came from the real estate world
00:16:51.490 --> 00:16:53.409
initially. Whenever I saw real estate marketing,
00:16:53.949 --> 00:16:56.570
even though I know the number one mistake that
00:16:56.570 --> 00:16:58.490
they'd often make is they wouldn't go for a niche
00:16:58.490 --> 00:17:01.250
market, they would do the advertise everywhere
00:17:01.250 --> 00:17:05.190
strategy, which doesn't work. It seems pretty
00:17:05.190 --> 00:17:07.170
hard not to get stuck in that to try to make
00:17:07.170 --> 00:17:10.930
the customer everybody, right? Yeah. Or as you're
00:17:10.930 --> 00:17:13.809
talking about knowing, I can't remember what
00:17:13.809 --> 00:17:15.569
to say, but knowing the field that you're in.
00:17:16.769 --> 00:17:18.609
Sometimes it's easy to get stuck in saying this
00:17:18.609 --> 00:17:20.750
is this is who I think my competition is when
00:17:20.750 --> 00:17:23.250
they're really not Competition like I guess an
00:17:23.250 --> 00:17:25.289
example is I think of Tim Hortons and Starbucks
00:17:25.289 --> 00:17:27.349
They're both coffee shops, but they're not really
00:17:27.349 --> 00:17:29.950
competition to each other Cheap in -and -out
00:17:29.950 --> 00:17:32.170
coffee The other is you sit down and you enjoy
00:17:32.170 --> 00:17:33.970
and that's they're not trying to compete on that
00:17:33.970 --> 00:17:37.029
level, right? So where do you find a lot of these
00:17:37.029 --> 00:17:40.950
biggest disconnects come into play? Or the blind
00:17:40.950 --> 00:17:43.029
spots for either most owners or board members
00:17:43.029 --> 00:17:46.180
or whomever would be making the decision Yeah,
00:17:46.180 --> 00:17:49.400
so you've got you've got the people running the
00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:52.059
company like obviously the CEO the founder then
00:17:52.059 --> 00:17:56.500
the people working with that person Who are really
00:17:56.500 --> 00:17:58.420
trying to understand the customer connect with
00:17:58.420 --> 00:18:00.799
the customer meet with a customer and try to
00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:02.799
Connect the dots between what they offer and
00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:05.420
what they the customers need and at the board
00:18:05.420 --> 00:18:08.619
level. Yes They may want to have something that's
00:18:08.619 --> 00:18:11.160
yeah, they just want to get profits. They want
00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:14.150
to you know, make sure that they're um, always
00:18:14.150 --> 00:18:16.269
growing. And of course, that's, I mean, that's,
00:18:16.309 --> 00:18:20.349
that's their particular goal. But sometimes those
00:18:20.349 --> 00:18:22.490
goals need to be a little bit more long -term.
00:18:22.869 --> 00:18:24.789
If you're going to be able to connect with a
00:18:24.789 --> 00:18:28.190
customer, the right kind of customer, that's
00:18:28.190 --> 00:18:31.750
going to give you long -term value. Also to your
00:18:31.750 --> 00:18:34.529
other point about, you know, we're, we were talking
00:18:34.529 --> 00:18:36.089
about marketing to everyone versus no one will,
00:18:36.150 --> 00:18:37.569
you want to market everyone. So you can capture
00:18:37.569 --> 00:18:39.650
your, if you're marketing to everyone, you're
00:18:39.650 --> 00:18:45.829
wasting resources because Let's say your ads
00:18:45.829 --> 00:18:48.970
will be going to eyeballs that don't care. If
00:18:48.970 --> 00:18:52.430
I'm marketing to, again, let's sit with the customer
00:18:52.430 --> 00:18:56.130
service, customer experience example. If I'm
00:18:56.130 --> 00:19:01.950
sending marketing ads that go to people that
00:19:01.950 --> 00:19:10.430
are heads of HR or someone in a operations role,
00:19:10.970 --> 00:19:14.519
my contact center is a service. ads are not,
00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:16.359
they're going to fall on deaf ears. They're not
00:19:16.359 --> 00:19:18.400
for that person. So you're actually wasting money
00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:22.380
on that by going so broad. Also, when you try
00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:27.299
to, if the messaging is going that broad, the
00:19:27.299 --> 00:19:29.579
people that you are trying to reach, let's say
00:19:29.579 --> 00:19:32.859
those two other personas I've talked about and
00:19:32.859 --> 00:19:35.519
the VP of customer experience looks at your product,
00:19:36.259 --> 00:19:38.539
the messaging is going to be so generic, it doesn't
00:19:38.539 --> 00:19:40.259
resonate with them and so that they'll bypass
00:19:40.259 --> 00:19:43.609
it, right? So you're actually, it's a lose -lose
00:19:43.609 --> 00:19:46.369
situation. You're being so broad that it doesn't
00:19:46.369 --> 00:19:49.349
get to the people, it doesn't get in the right
00:19:49.349 --> 00:19:52.410
channels to the right people. And even if it
00:19:52.410 --> 00:19:54.549
does, that's a lower percentage that it's actually
00:19:54.549 --> 00:19:57.829
getting to. They may not recognize this for them
00:19:57.829 --> 00:20:00.869
because you tried to be so generic in what you're
00:20:00.869 --> 00:20:05.529
trying to offer for them. And automatically,
00:20:05.650 --> 00:20:07.450
I'm assuming like to go back to the AI versus
00:20:07.450 --> 00:20:09.289
human conversation, I feel like that would be
00:20:09.289 --> 00:20:11.309
one of the biggest differences. Like already
00:20:11.309 --> 00:20:12.990
in this conversation talking about marketing,
00:20:13.170 --> 00:20:15.890
I'm already in the way my brain works. They start
00:20:15.890 --> 00:20:18.349
to narrow down paths of where I'd be right or
00:20:18.349 --> 00:20:22.529
wrong or what I'm doing right or wrong. And these
00:20:22.529 --> 00:20:24.250
are things AI doesn't really read into. They
00:20:24.250 --> 00:20:28.170
don't understand a generic pitch for the VP is
00:20:28.170 --> 00:20:31.950
different than for the production manager. It
00:20:31.950 --> 00:20:34.130
gives you that one generic pitch. That's interesting.
00:20:34.769 --> 00:20:36.470
Yeah. Well, I mean, think about it. A lot of
00:20:36.470 --> 00:20:39.259
these models that we're working with, our general
00:20:39.259 --> 00:20:43.519
world knowledge models. So that's how it's going
00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:46.400
to give you general information or generic information.
00:20:46.980 --> 00:20:48.940
So that's why you have to be very specific and
00:20:48.940 --> 00:20:51.200
understand your persona to know talk about their
00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:54.000
specific pains and their specific goals and then
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:57.799
create messaging and get into the channels that
00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:01.059
they are going to access. Do you find your world
00:21:01.059 --> 00:21:02.819
different in that? Like the customer coming a
00:21:02.819 --> 00:21:05.799
lot more informed with a base plan? Because I
00:21:05.799 --> 00:21:07.400
can see what you're talking about, but I know
00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:08.859
a lot of other marketing people I've spoken to.
00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:10.720
I'm curious if you're the same way. They've used
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:14.640
AI for this rough boundary, right? Or customer
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.240
I could see using AI for this rough framework,
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:21.359
for lack of a better word. But as you said, it
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:22.839
would just be a giant waste of money in a lot
00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:24.700
of cases. Did you find that the customer now
00:21:24.700 --> 00:21:26.900
is more educated or do you find AI is just straight
00:21:26.900 --> 00:21:32.579
up leading people astray? It depends on the situation,
00:21:32.859 --> 00:21:37.220
but some customers are educated. But the key
00:21:37.220 --> 00:21:42.099
is for me as a marketer and for me to help the
00:21:42.099 --> 00:21:44.819
marketing of these AI companies is you are part
00:21:44.819 --> 00:21:50.339
of your job is to educate. One, educate yourself
00:21:50.339 --> 00:21:52.839
first on what they need, the customer needs.
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:56.579
But then two, once you are able to understand
00:21:56.579 --> 00:21:59.619
what they need and tie what you have. have to
00:21:59.619 --> 00:22:02.099
fill those, to solve those problems that they
00:22:02.099 --> 00:22:05.099
have. Then you come in to educate them. I'm like,
00:22:05.099 --> 00:22:09.220
Hey, guess what? I know your problem. I have
00:22:09.220 --> 00:22:12.140
a solution to your problem. And by the way, it
00:22:12.140 --> 00:22:15.299
just uses AI to do it. So you come in and educate
00:22:15.299 --> 00:22:18.000
them on how, what, what problem you're solving
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.359
for them and how you do it. Then that's where
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:25.359
there can be a lot of momentum. Yeah. I love
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:28.680
that too, because. In many ways, I do find that
00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:32.220
with AI, it's a great tool, but it's not designed,
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:33.720
like my wife and I talked about it the other
00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:36.480
day, it's not designed to create, it's almost
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:39.019
more designed to recreate, if that makes sense.
00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:42.660
Yes, absolutely. Reorganize. I keep messing up
00:22:42.660 --> 00:22:44.480
that word, I gotta stop trying to use it, but
00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:47.599
that human spark that just doesn't exist within
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:51.490
AI, because... Before I got into real estate,
00:22:51.509 --> 00:22:53.609
I didn't realize that markets were almost like
00:22:53.609 --> 00:22:56.089
a living, breathing thing that is like navigating
00:22:56.089 --> 00:22:57.390
through it. I thought they were just numbers.
00:22:58.089 --> 00:22:59.609
And the more I'm talking, like even the more
00:22:59.609 --> 00:23:01.130
in this conversation, I'm beginning to realize
00:23:01.130 --> 00:23:04.130
marketing I'm imagining is actually a very big
00:23:04.130 --> 00:23:08.049
living and breathing thing because my forte as
00:23:08.049 --> 00:23:10.130
an owner is not to keep track of these trends,
00:23:10.130 --> 00:23:12.450
but your forte is to be like exactly what you're
00:23:12.450 --> 00:23:14.250
saying. What is the customer really looking for?
00:23:14.269 --> 00:23:16.490
Because the VP today, their needs are probably
00:23:16.490 --> 00:23:19.839
vastly different than it was a year ago. So that
00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:22.099
messaging would come across differently as well.
00:23:22.099 --> 00:23:26.619
Would that be accurate? Yes, absolutely Yeah,
00:23:26.619 --> 00:23:31.119
you got to be able to You have to you have to
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:35.619
niche down more than you think in order to message
00:23:35.619 --> 00:23:39.980
to people because You might think oh, I'm gonna
00:23:39.980 --> 00:23:43.119
be losing out on all these other Opportunities
00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:47.119
all these other personas, but if you niche down
00:23:47.339 --> 00:23:50.400
the more you resonate with that particular persona,
00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:53.400
the more they're going to pay attention. Right.
00:23:54.299 --> 00:23:56.059
All right. So let's dive into this. So we talked
00:23:56.059 --> 00:23:57.579
a little bit about the book and the framework.
00:23:58.200 --> 00:23:59.640
What else are we going to get out of the book?
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:02.500
So if I'm going to go ahead as an owner, as an
00:24:02.500 --> 00:24:05.059
entrepreneur, what else am I going to gather
00:24:05.059 --> 00:24:07.420
out of the book? And then just so you know where
00:24:07.420 --> 00:24:09.960
this is going to go to, how does that transition
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:13.630
and what is it like when I bring you on? how
00:24:13.630 --> 00:24:15.950
does my world shake up? What does that process
00:24:15.950 --> 00:24:18.970
look like? So people have an expectation of what
00:24:18.970 --> 00:24:21.809
it is. Sure. So two things you get out of it.
00:24:21.849 --> 00:24:23.670
One, you get a sneak preview of how it will be
00:24:23.670 --> 00:24:25.349
like to work with me and all the systems that
00:24:25.349 --> 00:24:27.369
I can create because you can read it and get
00:24:27.369 --> 00:24:28.930
an idea of it. And hopefully that helps you like
00:24:28.930 --> 00:24:31.589
a little bit. But when it comes to doing the
00:24:31.589 --> 00:24:34.750
execution of it, that's when I can helping with
00:24:34.750 --> 00:24:39.519
the customized strategy for your particular company,
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:41.599
that's where I can come in and say, hey, let's
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:43.960
work together on this. And I can make this work
00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:46.819
in your particular case. And then the second
00:24:46.819 --> 00:24:48.839
thing is you actually get entertainment value
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:51.839
out of it. Reason being it's a business parable.
00:24:52.420 --> 00:24:54.339
So instead of it being a straight nonfiction
00:24:54.339 --> 00:24:56.720
where you just read a bunch of facts, this is
00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:01.980
actually a story. So in a way, it's a meta way
00:25:01.980 --> 00:25:05.680
of teaching how I use my own methodology of you
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:08.339
want to sell store. The subtitle of the book
00:25:08.339 --> 00:25:11.059
is turning AI into stories that win customers.
00:25:11.980 --> 00:25:15.920
So for me, I'm selling my services. I turn my
00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:18.980
services into a story itself using this book.
00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:23.299
Nice. See, I just, for the record, I love it
00:25:23.299 --> 00:25:24.900
when books are actually doing that too. That's
00:25:24.900 --> 00:25:27.759
absolutely amazing. I want to make sure that
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:30.480
is the correct website, right? Thunderwolf .co?
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:33.220
That's exactly right. That's the one. Awesome.
00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:35.700
Now, other than the website, Josh, where else
00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:39.099
can people find you? You can find me on LinkedIn.
00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:41.960
I post content on there three or four times a
00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:47.819
week. Those two channels, my website or LinkedIn
00:25:47.819 --> 00:25:49.579
is going to be the piece. Or if you're looking
00:25:49.579 --> 00:25:52.460
directly for the book, it's on Amazon, Barnes
00:25:52.460 --> 00:25:56.240
& Noble, any major retailer. Awesome. I have
00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:58.599
to say it's funny, the LinkedIn thing. I'm very
00:25:58.599 --> 00:26:01.140
big on LinkedIn now, but in the real estate world.
00:26:01.289 --> 00:26:04.230
Years ago, we were taught never to get on LinkedIn
00:26:04.230 --> 00:26:06.430
as a real estate agent. That is pointless There's
00:26:06.430 --> 00:26:09.269
no customers on there blah blah. What a waste
00:26:09.269 --> 00:26:11.730
man. I am so angry with myself for not having
00:26:11.730 --> 00:26:14.390
a 16 years of account built up now and having
00:26:14.390 --> 00:26:18.670
this Awesome, man. Well, I appreciate I appreciate
00:26:18.670 --> 00:26:21.329
this conversation. I appreciate coming on final
00:26:21.329 --> 00:26:24.029
thought man I'll leave leave the audience with
00:26:24.029 --> 00:26:27.210
with the one thing to kind of To think about
00:26:27.210 --> 00:26:30.460
to resonate on as we finish up here Sure thing.
00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:33.279
So for any AI scale up founders or go to market
00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:38.259
leaders, you don't have to be stuck with trying
00:26:38.259 --> 00:26:41.480
to explain everything that you offer to your
00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:44.980
customers. If you can simplify into a story that
00:26:44.980 --> 00:26:47.180
will resonate with them, then you will be able
00:26:47.180 --> 00:26:49.240
to land more business. And that's what I can
00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:52.950
help you do. Awesome. So the book is The Last
00:26:52.950 --> 00:26:56.710
Human Marketer on Amazon. I do highly recommend
00:26:56.710 --> 00:26:59.069
it, and my reading list is getting larger and
00:26:59.069 --> 00:27:00.230
larger. It's one of those things I love about
00:27:00.230 --> 00:27:03.009
doing these podcasts is I ran out of gym material,
00:27:03.029 --> 00:27:05.130
so I am back on it. Is it in audio, by the way?
00:27:06.269 --> 00:27:09.930
It will be coming soon. Not yet, but soon. Cool.
00:27:10.269 --> 00:27:11.869
All right, man. Well, I really appreciate Josh
00:27:11.869 --> 00:27:15.390
coming on. Yeah, everybody, please check it out.
00:27:15.929 --> 00:27:18.269
As we start to dive in, especially on the show
00:27:18.269 --> 00:27:20.529
and having more of a marketing conversation,
00:27:21.069 --> 00:27:23.210
I really hope one of the things people are getting
00:27:23.210 --> 00:27:27.410
to grasp is, and like one other thing, or I guess
00:27:27.410 --> 00:27:29.329
kind of like, what's the best way to say it?
00:27:30.029 --> 00:27:32.349
Anybody can go in and figure out how to fix their
00:27:32.349 --> 00:27:35.049
car on YouTube, but not everybody knows the inner
00:27:35.049 --> 00:27:37.930
workings of how a car actually works. And this
00:27:37.930 --> 00:27:40.529
is the same with marketing. I think when we have
00:27:40.529 --> 00:27:43.509
things like AI and Fiverr, and I'm nothing against
00:27:43.509 --> 00:27:44.970
Fiverr, I know there's a lot of great people
00:27:44.970 --> 00:27:46.349
on there, but when you have these things that
00:27:46.349 --> 00:27:49.029
make marketing look easy, and you have these
00:27:49.029 --> 00:27:50.890
guides that make marketing look easy, it gives
00:27:50.890 --> 00:27:52.890
us the assumption that anybody to do it, and
00:27:52.890 --> 00:27:55.470
any small business can do it. And then if you're
00:27:55.470 --> 00:27:57.769
anything like me, you've spent months and thousands
00:27:57.769 --> 00:28:00.170
of dollars and frustrated that it hasn't converted
00:28:00.170 --> 00:28:03.029
into any clients. It's not that the marketing
00:28:03.029 --> 00:28:06.329
doesn't work, it's your marketing currently may
00:28:06.329 --> 00:28:10.180
not be working. And I do highly recommend, talk
00:28:10.180 --> 00:28:13.059
to a human being. I'm sure the vast majority
00:28:13.059 --> 00:28:15.500
of owners you speak to now will be utilizing
00:28:15.500 --> 00:28:18.920
AI in some way, shape or form. The difference
00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:20.980
is if you're someone like Josh or someone like
00:28:20.980 --> 00:28:23.519
myself, we are not using it to replace us. We're
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:26.319
using it to enhance the tools, enhance the creativity
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:29.059
and streamline the process. At the end of the
00:28:29.059 --> 00:28:31.440
day though, you still want a real person navigating
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:35.450
the ship. Absolutely. All right. Awesome, Josh.
00:28:35.609 --> 00:28:37.009
Thank you so much. Thank you, everybody, for
00:28:37.009 --> 00:28:38.910
listening, and we'll see you all in a few days.
