The Deposit Problem Holding Back Crypto Adoption

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Passage of the stable coin legislation drafted by the Senate, dubbed the Genius Act.
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Because analysts say a wave of competition can complicate things.
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Welcome back to Stable Pulse, everyone.
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We have a guest on the show today that is very near and dear to my heart.
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Worked with Griffin for quite some time now, and it was only destiny to have him on the show.
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So Griffin, welcome.
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Very, very excited to have you.
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Thank you for having me.
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Excited to be here.
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So, Griffin, as you know, from being an avid listener, I always like to kick the episodes off with a section that we call Braggadocious.
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You know the spiel.
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Please, please, please introduce yourself, introduce Halliday, brag as much as you possibly can.
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Excellent.
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So I'll I'll start with myself and then dive into the company.
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Um, I'm Griffin.
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I founded Halliday uh back in 2022, April 2022.
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Uh prior to that, I studied uh computer science at Stanford.
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So I actually worked at the hardware software interface doing embedded systems.
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I also did some applied cryptography.
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I did some work with Dan Bonnet on applying zero knowledge proofs for pooled anonymity protocols on Ethereum.
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Uh and then I started Halliday, and we have a singular mandate to supercharge conversion rates at the point of deposit and also withdrawals.
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Um, and we've been growing very quickly over the last you know, 18 months.
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We've raised 26 million from A16Z.
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Um, we're growing revenues by 47.2% month over month.
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We're onboarding new customers around 20% month over month, and also accelerating our deposit count by over 40% uh month over month.
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So it's been it's been a wild ride.
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You know, we got to sort of tame the bull here as we scale.
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Um, but it's it's actually never been in a more exciting time to be in the blockchain and slash digital asset industry.
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Hell yeah, Griffin.
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We've had a lot of people come on the show, and I tell everyone to brag, and they just give me a generic uh a generic intro.
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This was absolutely the best braggadocious section we've had.
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So I appreciate that introduction.
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I want to dive into deposits.
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You said that Halliday is a universal deposit and payout company.
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Talk to me a little bit more about deposits, sort of deposits as a as a category.
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What does deposits mean?
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Why does it matter?
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Totally, totally.
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And I think a good way to derive deposits is to look at the problem that necessitates they exist in the first place.
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So the primary motivation behind this category of unified deposits and withdrawals is really a fragmentation problem.
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And the fragmentation problem manifests as a user experience problem.
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And I think a lot of people who've tested a digital asset app or traded crypto, you're probably familiar with the extremely poor experience of buying your first asset.
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Um and so what unified deposits is, it's an attempt to take all of this complexity that exists globally, and it's multi-layered.
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So it's there's different countries in the world that have different laws and fiat rails and banking rails and card rules, blockchains and crypto assets.
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It's an attempt to take that all of that fragmentation and hide it behind a single layer, a single user experience.
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And that's why we call it a unified deposit experience.
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Um and it's really the first time that it's been possible to consolidate all these different rails into a cohesive uh UX.
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I'm going to try to repeat what you just said, and you tell me if I'm on the right track here.
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So the problem is that people have money in various different places and in various different form factors, right?
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Users of applications, they might have money in their bank account, they might have USDT on Tron or USDC on Tempo or whatever it might be, which makes it really, really hard to accept and to collect that money in its various different form factors and locations.
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So what Halliday does is it essentially has a really, really sexy user interface that abstracts all of that fragmentation and allows people to accept deposits from wherever they might come from and whatever form factor.
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And then I imagine, and you tell me if I'm wrong, that that same sort of principle applies on the other end when it comes to payouts.
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Is that fair?
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That that's exactly correct.
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I mean, every user they think in actions.
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And I think prior to this category existing, if you wanted to take an action, which is get my money from where I hold it today into an application I want to use.
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That's the high-level action.
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Without a unified deposit solution, that action is a journey.
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You have to go to five different websites, you have to KYC multiple times.
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It's extremely frustrating.
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We take all of these steps and consolidate it into a single click.
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And that also applies to, well, I've used an application, I have some tokenized stocks, or I have some Bitcoin.
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How do I get it back into the real world?
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How do I go to my local bank account?
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How do I go buy something at the corner store with my earnings?
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That's a complicated question in reality.
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And we similarly solve the get the money out problem and collapse it into a single-click experience.
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And I've actually seen a lot of the experiences that Halliday powers, whether it be prediction markets or neobanks, I understand what the user interface looks like.
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Very, very simple, very easy.
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I encourage people to go check it out.
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Talk to me about what's underneath that UX.
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Like, why is this universal deposit problem so hard to solve?
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And how do you guys go about solving that?
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Totally.
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And I I I like to say the complexity to solve this problem is primarily motivated by an extreme level of fragmentation, but it's it's what I'd like to call a multi-layered fragmentation.
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It's fragmentation in cash.
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There are many banks in the world.
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There are many different banking laws in the world, right?
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Banks are usually coupled to a geography.
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So if you're going to solve this problem in 150 countries, well, you need to get on the road and you need to get busy integrating a lot of different banking rails.
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And so that's one, it's just contracting work, it's legal work, and it's engineering work.
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Months and months and months of this that we do for you.
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And that's notwithstanding all the different blockchains that now exist, all the different wallets, Solana versus USDT on Tron, right?
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And then all the different KYC requirements and how the vendors surface themselves at the user experience layer and the login systems.
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So all this means is there's all these different components you have to talk to.
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And I think the visual I like to give uh without getting super deep into engineering land is like everybody's familiar with a Rubik's Cube, right?
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For every action you're taking, you have to rotate that Rubik's Cube.
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And having your product work under every rotation of that cube is very, very challenging and takes millions of dollars of investment and time and engineering talent.
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And so we offer that as a service, so you don't need to build all this plubbing out of the box.
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What does it look like if someone doesn't have Halliday?
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Like when you walk into a room and you're going to pitch someone, what is normally the solution that people have?
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And is there really like that big of an improvement when it comes to using Halliday?
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Yeah, and so I like to say that the current state pre-a unified deposit product, and this is a whole category, and there are multiple options, and we're one of the uh the options that solves this problem.
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But I think the alternative is what we call the hodgepodge.
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And typically it's a list of buttons in an application that says, hey, swap, bridge, go to an exchange, use your credit card, and these all link out to completely different product experiences.
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So there's no cohesion for the user.
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They see a different brand, they leave your website, and the cost shows up in the numbers.
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You know, most applications are losing more than 75% of their users at the deposit step.
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And if you're a trading application, if you're a neobank, that number of people who get through that onboarding funnel is almost one-to-one with your revenue.
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So if you're losing 75% of users, that's really a hair on fire problem.
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And with a unified deposit product, you can lift that conversion rate from 10, 15% to as high as 50%.
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So over 3x improvement and conversion.
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That just means more volume, more revenue, customers with lifetime value.
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It's it's a top-line metric for every crypto platform.
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So it really makes the difference when you smoothen out those funnels.
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Yeah, I think the lifetime value thing that you mentioned is really important because most of the people that are listening to this podcast, they are using stable coins or on-chain tokenized deposits, whatever it might be, but they're building out financially focused applications.
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And so when we talk about accepting deposits and the correlation to deposits and revenue, it's not just that it's a one-to-one thing.
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It's that when you accept a deposit, the money that you are bringing into your system is not going to be valuable to you at just one point in time or just once.
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It's going to be valuable to you for a very, very long time.
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Whether you continuously make yield off of that, whether you're you're able to recycle lending cycles, whatever it might be.
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The value of being able to make those deposits as easy as possible is something that I think most people critically, critically, critically undervalue.
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Totally.
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I mean, the the the calculation everybody ought to do is lifetime value of the customer, right?
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LTV.
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Number of customers you onboard times LTV.
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That is absolutely mission critical for any business building a financial service.
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Now, basically what we're saying is a better deposit experience increases the number of users where you unlock their LTV.
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And why this is also important too, it's not just the conversion rate, it's if somebody has a bad experience converting, they're never gonna come back.
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They're gonna tell their friends they had a shitty experience, and so it's gonna harm other users.
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Like if you can't withdraw from a financial services application, easily.
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Like this is not social media where I use it and then suddenly I leave and it's all fine.
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You know, keep my data, I don't care.
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The thing that's really important here is I'm depositing $5,000.
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And if my experience taking my money out is bad, not only am I, again, never coming back, so it becomes a retention problem.
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I'm gonna tell all my friends, my money got stuck in this place, I couldn't take it out to my bank.
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This was an awful, awful experience.
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So getting the user experience on money in and money out really good dramatically impacts core sort of user activation, but also user retention, which all ties into what's your LTV and how many people are you are you converting into real value for your company.
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Yeah, you know, we we talk about LTV here and we talk about bad experiences being a hindrance to LTV.
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And I think of all of the applications that I interact with on a daily basis.
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And like I have been using blockchain applications for probably 10 years now.
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I am the definition of someone who is blockchain native.
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And even today, I despise, despise the standard user experience of needing to work with my wallet and deposit assets.
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It's really, really bad.
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Now, obviously, people are slowly starting to wake up to this and and move forward, but it's really, really bad.
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The bar is really low.
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And I think that you know, the people who are listening to this in general, if they've ever heard of Wallet Connect or use their wallet to deposit any funds, they know what I'm talking about.
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There's no one in their right mind who goes in there, hits MetaMask, and it's like, okay, this is a really, really awesome deposit experience.
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My bar for this is can I onboard my mom?
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And I've I've tried to onboard my mom.
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I've tried to onboard my brother, my father, one time even my grandmother.
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Didn't go well.
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But that's the bar that I have is is my mother going to be able to use this?
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And the answer for most of these applications is just simply no.
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Right?
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Can you tell me a little bit more about how you guys have built Halliday in terms of, hey, you have this really, really fragmented, messy world of all of these different assets, chains, payment systems.
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How do you organize that?
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How do you like what is the building philosophy behind taking that chaos and turning it into something, you know, peaceful?
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Yeah, that that that's a great question.
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And the way we do this is it's two layers.
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One, it's how do you build a design system and a user experience that takes all the intentions of all these different methodologies, right?
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So a card is the same intention of using a crypto swap, but the way that that's manifested at the user experience layer is very different.
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Like if you've seen a crypto swap, right?
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You'll have top and bottom and quotes and price impact and terrible crazy things.
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That that UX should be abolished.
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I want to like universal global ban on all crypto swap UX.
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Terrible.
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Exactly.
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So so there's this existing modality, which is the swap experience, there's the exchange onboarding experience, but the intention is the same.
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The intention, the action I want to take is deposit, or it's I want to withdraw.
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And so we spent a lot of time taking all those, what I'll call like engagement surface, a surface through which you want to communicate, hey, I want to get this thing done and putting that all in a really graceful experience.
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So a lot of our work is actually design and product excellence and putting in the cycles and working with customers day in and day out to make a delightful user experience.
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And so that's extremely important.
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Like we are we're graduating from blockchains sell themselves because they're DLT, it's ledgers, it's super cool.
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We all believe in decentralization, all very, very important.
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But as you onboard consumers and real businesses, the experience matters.
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Like, why do people love Apple so much?
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There are a lot of reasons, but one reason I love Apple is iOS is just a delightful piece of software.
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It is an excellent operating system.
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The design of the phone is just amazing.
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That has to come to crypto.
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Um, and that's where we're sort of really trying to spearhead that movement to delightful user experiences.
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Then, one level below, how do you tame that complexity from a sort of technology perspective?
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This is where we get into, you know, we've built what we call a workflow system or an orchestration system that can connect to all these different components and then combine them into actions, right?
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So for every action, we're just taking these Lego pieces and putting them together and having it work reliably.
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So the real challenge there is can you handle many different formats, which we can, but then can you have them all communicate with each other?
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Can you have that connectivity be 99.999% reliable?
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Because again, this is not social media.
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If it goes down for an hour, so what?
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If your deposit experience goes down, that is potentially millions of dollars stuck God knows where, right?
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So reliability is extremely important.
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And so we spend a lot of time on making that cross-venue communication and settlement extremely reliable.
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I love that.
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That's that's really, really interesting.
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In our many conversations, you and I have also talked about how one of the key pieces to holiday success is their non-custodial structure.
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I've talked to various people about custodial versus non-custodial.
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This is something that you have spent a lot of time thinking about.
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I've talked to your general counsel about this in a lot of detail.
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Can you sort of give us an overview of, first of all, what this means, custodial versus non-custodial?
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Second, the implications to going custodial versus non-custodial.
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And then third, how Halliday approaches this with its non-custodial architecture.
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Totally.
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Yeah, and there's a lot to unpack on this.
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I'm sorry, we we can we can spend a lot of time on this.
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So please, please, please.
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I think it's absolutely critical.
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Um, maybe working back from why does that even enter the conversation in this product category?
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So it turns out there's a first mile and there's a last mile problem.
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And I'll use this analogy of when you order something on Amazon and you get something delivered to your door.
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When it comes from like a big fulfillment center, right?
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So you know you're outside of a city, massive warehouse, somebody has to get in a truck and deliver it to your front door.
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That's the last mile.
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There's a last mile in blockchain land, which is how do I get from a stable coin to the actual digital asset I want, the destination asset I want.
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So a good example is maybe you want Pi USD or PUSD on a prediction market, or you want a USDC balance on a perp Dex that's not natively supported by your banking rail.
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That last mile delivery is a short distance, but there are many different roads you can take.
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So that part of the problem, you actually need to orchestrate on a blockchain.
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You need to swap assets, you need to move them from one network to another, and then deliver it to the user's account balance.
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And it turns out there's really only two ways to do this.
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One, you can take control of those assets on your balance sheet and then deliver it to the user.
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Or you can create what's called a smart contract, which is what's considered self-custody, and have that system execute it.
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And the big difference is it comes down to this concept of control.
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And hold on, can we pause right here just so that I understand this correctly?
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Yes.
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A custodial model is when you, as the business, are, I guess, taking control of those assets.
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At some point, you have control over where those assets are in one way or another.
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And then non-custodial is when the assets are based on a smart contract.
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And the reason that it's called non-custodial is because you, as the company, do not have control over it, but rather the user via the smart contract still has control over it.
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Is that correct?
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Precise.
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Precise.
00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:39.200
And this is like the original value proposition of blockchains, right?
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:48.559
So self-custody as a concept is the original reason we started building Bitcoin self-sovereign money, Ethereum, right?
00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:50.480
A programmable blockchain.
00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:55.119
That was Ethereum's contribution to this sort of science of blockchain.
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:59.279
Um, and and we're extending that, which is that last mile delivery.
00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:02.480
You can do that without taking control.
00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:15.599
And and why this is very important, companies that take control, that's a licensing, you have to be licensed to do that in the United States and in the EU.
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:16.559
That's totally fine.
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:18.640
That's a very valid approach.
00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:24.240
Um you have to have your correct licensing, you have to do KYC.
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:25.599
It's very serious.
00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:39.119
You're you're you have the same trust property as a traditional payment processor or a traditional banking service or money service business when you control user funds.
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:41.519
This is very well trodden ground, too.
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:49.279
Like if you've ever worked in I'll call it normal fintech, which is fintech outside of crypto, this is the standard.
00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:56.160
If you control people's funds, which is a position of trust, governments require you to be licensed.
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:59.200
Self custody.
00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:04.319
If you have no control, it exists under a different regime.
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:20.079
It's actually still regulated, but the regulation says if you are truly not in control, you are subject to a different set of requirements, which is about the authenticity of that claim and whether your smart contracts are truly self-custodial.
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:26.880
If you're self-custodial, you're not subject to the same regime as a custodial or controlled business, which makes sense, right?
00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:29.039
Because they're two very different architectures.
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:33.119
And so the value of that is you can deploy globally.
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:35.839
The users keep control of their funds.
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:51.920
And it works natively out of the box in 150 plus countries who all operate under that sort of reciprocity with that regime, which was, you know, largely, you know, Vincent has spoken about this in the United States, and MICA is a regime that talks about this.
00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:58.400
And then of course Clarity in the United States pending it at uh you know when it passes in the Congress.
00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:06.720
Oh, I think your audio might not be going through.
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:07.680
My bad.
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:11.119
How do you at Halliday handle all of this?
00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:11.359
Right?
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:13.680
You mentioned before you're just a communicator.
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:19.200
You're just sort of the facilitator between disparate payment systems, which I want to touch on later.
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:30.319
But like from a custodial versus non-custodial perspective, Mika seems to have its own rules, and Genius seems to have its own rules, and you know, a Singapore entity might operate under its own rules.
00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:36.240
You guys canonically have various different payment rails all over the world.
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:42.079
How do you guys go about navigating the custodial versus non-custodial side of this?
00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:48.799
And what are the implications for your clients who need to work with you across many different different geographies?
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:49.599
Totally.
00:23:49.599 --> 00:24:00.720
And I'll say from a top level, just as a business, we are uncompromising on the concept and the discipline of self-custody.
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:04.160
Um, and and there's there's sort of two reasons for that.
00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:07.200
One, we like to say we have a culture of compliance here.
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:16.880
For these technologies to reach Main Street, to be used with billions of dollars of customer funds, you have to build it the right way.
00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:22.400
And the right way to build a blockchain application is if you are truly self-custody.
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:32.079
Then you are you are coherent with the existing laws and regimes that are being in place and the new laws that are being written, all center around control.
00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:42.640
We are extremely disciplined and committed to having no such control and to truly offering smart contract products.
00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:44.559
That takes a lot of work.
00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:46.000
We've spent years doing that.
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:48.720
We've invested millions of dollars in Frontier RD.
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:53.519
We've actually have over three patents on this exact subject.
00:24:53.519 --> 00:25:07.119
And what this enables us to do, sort of answer your question, is we can partner with local licensed custodial businesses who need to touch the banking systems.
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:11.359
So we don't personally go in and connect to a local banking rail.
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:17.759
We find the best in class fiat partner who can do that first leg delivery.
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:30.640
Go from, let's say, uh EUR to EURC, and then on a blockchain, we can do the orchestration and delivery to the final destination asset.
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:32.559
And that pairing is essential.
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:49.279
You pair licensed identity with true self-custody that unlocks the full capability set of the blockchain, which is free digital assets, open access plus connectivity to the incumbent banking system.
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:53.200
Um that is our strategy and what we're committed to.
00:25:55.920 --> 00:26:03.119
Why is this a better system than actually taking custody of users' funds?
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:08.400
I mean, to me, custody like seems like the easy way, right?
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:14.079
Oh, I can take in user funds, I can hold it, and then I'll just, you know, spit out those funds.
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:17.519
It might be more efficient for me to operate that off my balance sheet.
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:21.119
It's something that banks have done for quite some time, uh, et cetera, et cetera.
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:26.319
Why have you guys decided to make this like a key core principle of Halliday?
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:26.960
Totally.
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:32.240
And you know, and I'll and I should be very clear to say like custody when licensed is great.
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:39.039
We've been doing that for a hundred years, and we have a fantastic financial services industry uh globally.
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:42.319
You know, we have all of the great banks in the US.
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:57.920
The the real perspective that I think is is quite the I'll use an analogy too, which is you know, blockchains are like flying for the first time with with financial services.
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:07.839
So on-chain products are default global from day one when they fit the criteria of being self-custodial.
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:09.920
It's always it's always super important to go to that.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:16.000
It's totally fine to be a custodial licensed product, but then you have to understand what that means.
00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:20.160
Well, by definition, licensing is very local.
00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:24.160
So when you're a bank, you're typically a bank in a single country.
00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:26.559
There's no global bank.
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:30.640
You're a bank in the US, and that's the one thing you do, and it's very hard to do that.
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:32.400
It takes a lot of skill.
00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:36.880
If you're a bank in the UK, that is the only thing you're gonna do.
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:40.400
If you're a bank in Brazil, they're bank specifically for Brazil.
00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:46.960
And the reason this is the case is banks and financial regulations are tied to local policy.
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:53.200
And so this is almost, I almost say that there's you use this term called payment physics, which I really like.
00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:59.119
This is another example of the physics of payments and banking and financial regulation.
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:03.279
It is by definition in the trust model local.
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:04.079
Why?
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:12.720
Regulators are going to trust the people who are right next to them to manage the money of the population and your and in your geography.
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:20.880
For the first time in human history, we've had a credibly neutral platform for money, which is decentralized ledgers.
00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:25.279
The first being Bitcoin that really reached mass adoption, and Ethereum.
00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:34.160
Now world governments are saying if you are actually neutral and it really is just code, that is okay.
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.279
That is a different category of service.
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:40.240
It's an airplane versus a car.
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:43.279
So if you're building airplanes, it's really exciting.
00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:44.640
There's so many things you can do.
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:50.000
You can offer global by default financial services, which has never been possible before.
00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:53.920
We can have trillion-dollar financial services companies for the first time.
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:55.039
We see this happening.
00:28:55.039 --> 00:29:02.640
Neobanks that used to be in the US are now launching global versions of their product on stablecoin rail.
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:08.400
So I think that's like immediately just the global nature of the ledger, is extremely exciting.
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:10.319
And you can only credibly do that.
00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:18.319
And you can actually only do that in a way that's compatible with real growth and size through being self-custodial, if that makes sense.
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:19.680
Yeah, 100%.
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:29.279
One thing that I try to grapple with when it comes to Halliday is like you guys are laser focused on a very narrow area, which is deposits, right?
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:36.079
How do I get money into a specific platform or protocol and then also payouts, which is the opposite flow?
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:40.960
But you guys have built a system that's very, very broad and multifaceted.
00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:43.119
And I again, I don't want to get into engineering land.
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:46.880
I don't want to dive into the VM structure or anything like that.
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:56.640
But are there other things that you are doing with this sort of communication, facilitation, orchestration system, whatever you want to call it, that goes beyond just deposits?
00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:00.480
I know earlier in the show you mentioned workflows, and so I want to hear more about that.
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:01.440
Totally.
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:05.680
And there's a lot we can and are starting to do.
00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:12.559
And I think it goes all back to this concept of there is a collection of actions people want to take.
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:18.640
So one way is this called an action, uh, in a more business-oriented way would say business logic.
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:23.839
People want to perform business with financial assets.
00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:29.359
And that takes the form of I want to do X, I want to do Y, and then I want to do Z.
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:35.359
The very first action people want to take is well, how do you get started, right?
00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:41.599
Like we haven't even solved the very basic just move money in, move money out, and do that globally with a good experience.
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:50.880
But the second you do that well, well, one, we have the real estate, and then we have the sort of launch pad to then say, what's the next action you want to do?
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:55.920
And one example would be well, now that my users are on board, they want to save.
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:58.160
They want to earn interest.
00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:03.200
Well, earning yield now exists in many different places, in many different assets.
00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:08.480
And we can all collapse that into a single-click experience, or what we just call a workflow.
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:11.920
A workflow is just a sequence of things you want to do.
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:13.200
It's it's really that simple.
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:16.720
It's just, I want to go to the store and I want to go home.
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:18.720
That's a workflow on a blockchain.
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:22.480
That's the level you can think of in nowadays and with our technology.
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:24.079
But then you can go a step further.
00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:27.920
You can say, well, maybe I want to pay every 30 days.
00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:29.839
Maybe I want to do a subscription.
00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:34.079
And in handling all of that complexity and fragmentation globally, just the action.
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:36.480
I want to do this, but I want to do it every 30 days.
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:38.000
But then you can go even further.
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:44.400
Say you're managing a bunch of assets and there's this explosion of RWAs, right?
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:52.160
So oil, tokenized oil, tokenized stocks, different issuers, rules, networks.
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:57.519
But if I'm a manager, if I'm an asset manager, I don't care about all that fragmentation.
00:31:57.519 --> 00:31:58.880
I don't care about the details.
00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:00.640
I care about my strategy.
00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:07.759
And my strategy is I'm going here, I'm moving left, I'm moving right, and I want to get it done.
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:14.480
We sit at that system of action layer, which is give us the strategy and we'll and we'll get the action done.
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:16.640
That primitive does not exist.
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:18.799
Um, it's actually how we built deposits.
00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:23.440
We we form a deposit to us, it's just an action, and we pass it off to our action system.
00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:29.200
And it's the same thing for any other set of things you want to do in programmable commerce.
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:31.200
Send it to us and we'll get it done.
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:38.319
Um I think that's kind of the vision of the company is to grow into what I like to call it's it's a control tapper.
00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:51.359
It's almost like your cockpit for every asset operation you want to do, every outcome you want, we get it done for you reliably, um, which is very hard to do without a system like us.
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:58.160
So it seems like Halliday Today, you guys focus on being sort of the entrance gate, right?
00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:04.799
The front gate, and then also the back gate into any given application system, protocol, whatever you would like to call it.
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:24.240
But in doing so, you also accidentally, maybe it's not accidental, maybe it's incredibly strategic, but you also built the means of implementing step two, three, four, five and everything else that happens between the first and last step of being part of a system.
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:27.920
And I guess you know, we're we're entering two parallel conversations.
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:37.839
And so I want to ask you the same question that I asked you before, but now you know, talking about workflows is what do people do today?
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:39.039
Why does it suck?
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:41.119
And why can Halliday do it better?
00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:46.799
Yeah, so especially in in sort of past the gateway, right?
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:51.839
So we have the gateway problem, which is how do you get people through the gate and out of the gate?
00:33:51.839 --> 00:34:00.880
The next step is often, okay, now I'm on the blockchain and I want to access services, financial services.
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:06.240
This is where you actually grow that, you know, going back to LTV, this is where most of the LTV is.
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:09.119
This is where the real value creation of a blockchain is.
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:11.440
So, you know, a lot of people want to trade.
00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:12.320
Great.
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:24.400
Um well, one thing that a lot of applications want to do is they want to access a portfolio of value-added services across many networks and service providers.
00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:32.239
So the default mechanism to deal with that complexity and fragmentation today is uh does DIY do it yourself?
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:40.719
Sorry, you know, you're gonna spend 12 months of you know building, managing keys and gas and all this crazy stuff that we don't need to get into the weeds of.
00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:47.840
But building your portfolio of services and doing those integrations and maintaining the reliability, you're gonna become a SaaS business.
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:50.880
Whether you like it or not, you're a SaaS business now.
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:53.360
Um, and that's been the default mechanism.
00:34:53.360 --> 00:35:09.039
So if you want to offer your, say you're on Solana, but there's good yield on Arc Network or there's good yield on Arbitrum, you have to figure out that plumbing, move it around, keep it reliable, do the accounting, move it back.
00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:18.000
And so what we can offer, having proven ourselves as a gateway, is we can say, hey, look at all this technology we built behind the gateway.
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:20.400
Give us those other intentions.
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:31.280
And we'll let you think about just Action Land, where we actually do all of the guaranteed execution, we guarantee finality, all of these things that you don't have to worry about.
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:37.119
So it saves you 12 plus months of engineering and a consistent investment, right?
00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:40.400
So, you know, hyperliquid wasn't around a couple of years ago.
00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:44.159
When the next hyperliquid comes around, we'll be the ones integrating it for you.
00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:51.760
So it's not just the complexity today, it's the complexity tomorrow of all the new assets and services being launched.
00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:54.400
Great one is new RWA pops up.
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:56.960
Suddenly everybody wants to trade SpaceX stock, right?
00:35:56.960 --> 00:35:58.639
On Robinhood Chain.
00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:01.039
Well, today you got to go do that work.
00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:02.719
Go buy Robinhood Chain.
00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:05.280
Not Robinhood, buy the token on Robinhood Chain.
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:06.719
Go do the integration.
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:11.440
Um and keeping up with that is is really, really quite challenging.
00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:18.480
And I think has largely held back the industry where to do this yourself, you have to build your own contracts, you know, your own key management.
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:20.559
It's it's really, really frustrating.
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:21.840
Yeah.
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:30.639
I mean, to your point, I think that this problem only gets worse as more change laws launch and more value moves on chain.
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:40.800
Um, I mean, you you hear people laugh at even just like in stablecoin land, there's a thousand different stable coins, and oh, how do I manage all of these different stable coins across all of these different chains?
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:46.559
It seems like Halliday does a good job at abstracting three main things.
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:49.360
The first is the difference between chains, right?
00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:51.840
Needing to manually bridge from one to the other.
00:36:51.840 --> 00:37:01.440
Uh, the second is needing to sort of determine I have asset here, I have asset there, or just like the accounting behind everything.
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:06.639
And then the third, and to me, what's the most important is actually the liquidity pool side of things.
00:37:06.639 --> 00:37:19.039
On most trading venues, whether they be you know front-end trading venues that you that you go and do the trades manually, or just the the liquidity pools that abstract, like they operate on liquidity pools.
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:24.320
And to me, liquidity pools are one of the hardest things about crypto.
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:34.239
And what I mean by that is if a liquidity pool fundamentally is two assets that are put into a given pool and supplied with liquidity.
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:56.159
But what that means, if you have RWA number one and a pool of RWA1 and USDC, and you have another pool of RWA2 and USDT, and there's no direct liquidity pool with RWA1 and RWA2, it means that the steps to go between RWA1 and RWA2 is really, really confusing and really, really hard to do.
00:37:56.159 --> 00:38:11.199
It sounds like Halliday just abstracts all of that in the background and allows you to go from any on-chain asset to any on-chain asset without needing to actually know the nuances between liquidity pools, chains, gas fees, et cetera, et cetera.
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:12.800
Is that is that fair?
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:14.639
That's exactly correct.
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:17.679
And what's exciting is it's really any asset.
00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:19.920
So there's stable coins, which are fantastic.
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:22.559
It's sort of, you know, that's your electricity.
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:24.559
It's it's it's the base need.
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:34.079
But to me, the most exciting thing is we're moving, there's this trend to move wholesale capital markets onto blockchains.
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:37.599
So equities trading, private credit.
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:40.239
This is where blockchain gets really exciting.
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:48.880
It's all these assets that used to be extremely hard to get access to, or illiquid, or if you wanted to sell your position, you'd have to do three months of legal work.
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:51.119
Now that's becoming tokenized.
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:55.039
And the the exchange mechanism is likely going to be stable coins.
00:38:55.039 --> 00:39:01.519
Um, but you have these edges now of all these different RWAs being being minted.
00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:09.679
And that sort of creates that problem you're talking about of, oh man, it's kind of complex if I'm moving from my tokenized stock to a private credit position.
00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:13.599
I have to think about well, where's the liquidity for the stock?
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:19.039
Is it on an on-chain venue or is it on an off-chain broker dealer?
00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:22.000
Um, is the RWA KYC?
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:24.559
Is that on-chain or is that off-chain?
00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:30.239
So we figure out all that interlinking, all that connectivity, even at the identity layer, right?
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:37.519
So if you have the KYC with both venues, we'll consolidate that KYC and share it across both of the regulated entities.
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:41.840
So our product works across the two boundaries, which is really important.
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:48.000
We're on-chain, so we can find if there's liquidity anywhere on a blockchain, we will go find it for you.
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:49.679
And we will go get it reliably.
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:50.880
That's also very important.
00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:54.079
People underestimate the challenge of not just finding it.
00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:55.280
That's great.
00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:56.960
A lot of people can find it.
00:39:56.960 --> 00:40:04.159
The second part is can you deliver it across all these venues with 99.99% uptime?
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:05.920
Uh, and typically the answer is no.
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:08.239
Uh, so that's that's a really, really important piece of this.
00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:14.480
So as this things become institutional, you can't go down in in traditional capital markets.
00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:16.960
Like the reliability is an absolute must.
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:24.800
Then it's also, well, maybe for a stable coin and even RWAs too, connecting to the issuers is another strategy.
00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:33.440
So for assets, like sometimes you can you can burn it and then work with them directly through the regulated universe using regulated rails.
00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:37.039
Um, look, if you're going between currencies, there's always a cost.
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:46.639
Um, so it's really about how do you find the best route across both worlds and then collapse all that complexity into a single action.
00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:49.360
And that's exactly our on-ramps are that actually.
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:56.480
We're not trying to source you liquidity on USDC from USD through like a peer-to-peer marketplace.
00:40:56.480 --> 00:40:58.400
We're working with a regulated party.
00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:01.440
So we have connections directly to regulated entities.
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:11.679
We could do the same exact thing for transfers, for RWA issuers, mint and burn, and collapse it all into a single product experience.
00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:16.960
That's really, really cool.
00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:27.440
Um I think that we've spent a lot of time in the theory in the theoretical world in this episode, and I want to ground us a little bit.
00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:31.760
Can we talk about like practical use cases to all of this?
00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:34.639
Real world examples, um, things like that.
00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:38.960
And you can you know start with deposits and then go into the workflow stuff.
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:44.159
But I want to hear about who's using Halliday right now, what they're using Halliday for.
00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:52.480
Just take everything that we spoke about over the last you know 30, 40 minutes and give me the real world use cases behind it.
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:58.400
Yeah, no, that and there's a few different categories that we've really driven value for.
00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:05.519
Um, you know, people launching networks themselves have have seen a lot of value in using our products.
00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:12.800
So we actually initially went live with you know a layer one blockchain, uh, you know, now called the Data Foundation.
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:15.039
Uh, we powered Mega E through their launch.
00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:23.920
We work with Alio and both uh in stable, the sort of tether-backed layer one Neo Bank slash blockchain using our technology.
00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:35.119
Um, prediction markets and trading platforms that you know, there's a there's a prediction market I really like actually because they styled the the product so nicely called ExoMarket that that's using us in in production.
00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:41.440
So we have a really good cohort of customers seeing value and just the the gateway product.
00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:46.320
How do you how do you get in and how do you get out really, really easily?
00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:54.880
And I think the next trend that we're seeing beyond just trading is with 24-7 trading of equities.
00:42:54.880 --> 00:42:56.960
That's a really, really big deal.
00:42:56.960 --> 00:43:13.440
This has been typically relegated to perpetual exchanges, but now Wall Street's talking about 24-7 spot with regulated broker dealers unlocking major institutional flow.
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:22.239
And so there's actually a tremendous value prop of 24-7 trading, which is some big geopolitical thing happens on Friday evening.
00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:24.719
Well, maybe you want to trade that over the weekend, right?
00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:29.679
So this is what's been happening, and I think sort of embracing that is quite exciting.
00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:43.280
Um, I think the second thing that's really important just to consider is look, you know, the United States has high-quality financial services, but a lot of the world does not have access to US financial services.
00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:46.239
So there's this accessibility movement.
00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:52.159
And I can tell you from our data only like 7% of our volume is from the United States.
00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:58.239
Over 40% is from Asia Pacific broadly, and another 40% is actually from Europe.
00:43:58.239 --> 00:43:59.599
Uh and then you know, we have some.
00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:02.880
Traffic in MENA in Latin America.
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:08.000
But for a lot of people outside of the US, getting access to U.S.
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:10.000
equities is actually extremely attractive.
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:14.159
You know, the whole AI boom is happening in Silicon Valley.
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:33.679
If I'm in a different country in the world who I don't have easy access to a broker account, that's extremely valuable to get economic exposure to those services beyond just stable coins, like purely talking tokenized assets, which I think is a pretty important movement that we're seeing globally.
00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:44.239
And then just on the stablecoin side, I'll use an example of like services like you know BREX and these neo banks like Slash.
00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:51.119
There's really great tech forward neobanking products in the US for accounts receivable and accounts payable.
00:44:51.119 --> 00:45:07.840
You know, if you're managing a trucking fleet or you're doing construction, there is no such equivalent of those services in like 50% of the world's GDP, uh, you know, which is outside some of the major regulated markets, um, like the US and China.
00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:20.000
Um having ramp or BRECS or SLASH or you name it really hot fintech, but for everywhere else, is actually an extremely exciting opportunity.
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:25.280
And so even so those fintechs are all you know building XUS products.
00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:38.400
Um, but I think there's also an opportunity now for somebody, you know, in a local market to say, hey, I'm gonna build a fintech where you know you don't have like Marquetta in local market, small market outside the US.
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:39.920
And we we really take that for granted.
00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:47.840
Like the fintech ecosystem in the states and some of the more fintech forward markets is it's does not exist everywhere else.
00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:50.079
And so that's a really important change.
00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:52.639
Yeah, you're you're 100% right there.
00:45:52.639 --> 00:46:00.960
I mean, this is something that, as you know, I I think about a lot and I and I talk about a lot from a fintech perspective.
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:03.519
I want to drill down even deeper.
00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:05.199
Again, two workflows here.
00:46:05.199 --> 00:46:12.880
I shouldn't say workflows, but two main products that Highlight has is sort of the deposit side that people are using you for and the workflow side.
00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:24.880
It sounds like on a deposit side, it's like, okay, you can build the most badass application or system possible, but if you can't get money in there, it doesn't matter, right?
00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:28.960
You need to fundamentally, step one, get money into your system in order for it to operate.
00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:38.960
And then on the workflow side, it's very much of hey, if you do not want to be siloed into one specific chain or one specific asset, use Halliday for your workflows.
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:47.119
Can you tell me a little bit more about like how as a builder I should think about whether or not I should use holiday?
00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:51.199
Like, you know, let's say I'm a I'm a fintech founder right now.
00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:57.679
What mental model should I be using to think about, okay, do I need holiday or am I good?
00:46:58.159 --> 00:46:58.559
Right.
00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:11.679
So I mean, look, odds are if you're doing anything on a blockchain, you're gonna need what we call a digital asset gateway, which is just how do my users go through the gate to your app and how do they leave your app?
00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:12.960
Yeah, can I get money in?
00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:13.760
Can I get money out?
00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:14.880
Can you get money in?
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:16.159
Can you get money out?
00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:19.679
Yes, you should be using how no question.
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:22.880
You should be using a unified deposit product at the very least.
00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:24.880
Just unified deposits as a category.
00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:29.920
It's sort of a new venture category, it's a new cohort of companies.
00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:36.239
Um, we think we do it particularly well, but I would say you you have to have a solution like that, or you're losing users.
00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:42.159
Um, you know, it's it's like having a really bad growth engine as a social media product.
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:47.599
Like if you don't have your deposits in order, you're just you're it's just not gonna work, unfortunately.
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:56.159
And I I think the reason that it's a new venture category is it's not like I want to have more money in my app is something revolutionary at all.
00:47:56.159 --> 00:48:05.679
But because more and more assets have spun up, more and more chains have spun up, and more and more payment networks have spun up, the problem of can I accept deposits has gotten a lot worse.
00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:13.760
I remember, you know, in the early days of blockchain, people would make a really, really big deal out of what blockchain they were building on.
00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:20.159
And the primary reason behind that is because they wanted to access the capital that the users had on that specific chain.
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:29.519
Hey, I'm gonna go and you know, launch my DeFi application on Solana because there's a lot of people who hold Seoul or who hold USDC on Solana and I want to access those users.
00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:35.760
Hey, I'm gonna launch my social application on base because I want to access people with USDC on base.
00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:45.840
And your decision to launch in a specific venue was very, very much tied to the amount of native deposits that you were able to get into that given venue.
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:51.679
But it seems like today, because there's so many, you can't really make a good decision there.
00:48:51.679 --> 00:49:07.920
If you're only locking yourself into accepting deposits on one venue or even a few specific chains, a few specific tokens, you're missing out on an entire world of people who would click the other box, essentially, people who are not falling into that category.
00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:23.519
And so it seems like when using a universal deposit product like Halliday, what you're able to say is it doesn't really matter where I build, because I'm able to access everyone in the world, again, full circle, regardless of where their money is, regardless of what form factor that money is in.
00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:24.239
Totally.
00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:36.159
And I think the thing that really gets to that point is one, there's look at the numbers, there's 40 million people who have EOAs, broadly, or crypto wallets.
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:40.559
There's around 500 plus million people who have centralized exchange accounts.
00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:44.079
One of our values is that we connect directly to centralized exchanges.
00:49:44.079 --> 00:49:48.079
Most apps don't think about how am I connecting to the centralized exchange?
00:49:48.079 --> 00:49:52.400
Because that's where a lot of users onboard is they onboard initially to a centralized exchange.
00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:56.960
There are a billion people who use fintechs like Revolute and New Bank.
00:49:56.960 --> 00:50:02.159
Those users should be able to use their Revolut accounts to get onto your platform, right?
00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:03.920
Because that's their banking stack.
00:50:03.920 --> 00:50:08.719
And then there's 7 billion people who are banked.
00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:13.760
So most of the world still, you know, most of the value still sits in bank accounts.
00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:20.719
Um and unlocking that globally, which is by definition localized, is that final step.
00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:31.840
And so if you're not hitting each of those funnels and constantly working towards unlocking those funnels with the best possible user experience, you're losing people.
00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:38.559
If you think you're okay with just a single wallet connector, just look at the numbers I just showed you.
00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:41.840
You're you're 40 million over 7 billion.
00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:44.400
That's a tiny yeah.
00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:46.000
Don't use a single wallet connector.
00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:56.400
Not even for like, hey, I want to be able to accept more than that, but don't use a wallet connector because it's terrible UX and I hate it and it makes me bang my head against the wall every single time.
00:50:56.400 --> 00:51:02.719
And no one is ever going to build a beautiful, genuinely amazing product using a wallet connector.
00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:04.079
Just don't do it.
00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:06.000
For for my own sanity.
00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:06.960
Right.
00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:08.559
You you need wallets, right?
00:51:08.559 --> 00:51:17.039
But like the the actual gateway, which is how people enter and explore your application, that's a full-time job.
00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:24.960
And and so like, you know, you can either invest a lot of time trying to build it in the hodgepodge way, or you sort of you use a global solution.
00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:29.679
And you know, and look, TLDR is the world is a big, fragmented place.
00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:31.679
And either it's not getting any better.
00:51:31.679 --> 00:51:33.760
No, no, it's and it's getting worse, right?
00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:44.239
It's only gonna get worse as there's more value comes on chain, the more the competitive dynamic is we want to be landlords, not tenants, right?
00:51:44.239 --> 00:52:00.000
So everybody's gonna start launching their own networks, their own services, and that's where these connectivity layers, this connective tissue layer, that's credibly neutral and self-custodial, especially as things get more and more regulated, is extremely, extremely important.
00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:01.280
All right.
00:52:01.280 --> 00:52:03.039
Griffin, you convinced me.
00:52:03.039 --> 00:52:05.840
I'm an app builder, I'm a protocol builder.
00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:10.000
I realize I need to make my deposit experience better.
00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:11.039
Now what?
00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:14.239
How how do I how do I take that next step?
00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:15.679
You know what?
00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:17.760
The answer is actually it's it's very simple.
00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:20.480
We have a self-serve experience.
00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:23.679
Onboarding is completely done through our dashboard.
00:52:23.679 --> 00:52:25.440
So you can go to dashboard.
00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:29.440
I'm sure we'll put everything in in the notes.
00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:31.280
We have an interactive demo too.
00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:34.800
We we're not gonna make you book a call to use the product.
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:36.960
You can just go immediately.
00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:42.559
And so we've really focused on the developer experience, which is it's like seven lines of code.
00:52:42.559 --> 00:52:48.559
It's seven lines of code to uplift your conversion by 20, 30, 40 percent potentially.
00:52:48.559 --> 00:52:52.480
And to us, that's an extremely clear ROI.
00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:59.599
Go live in a day, um, go on the dashboard, make your own API key, uh, get access to all the capabilities.
00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:01.599
Um, it's very easy to work with us.
00:53:02.159 --> 00:53:02.880
I love it.
00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:05.920
Um, Griffin, I'm gonna end it here.
00:53:05.920 --> 00:53:08.400
I really, really appreciate you jumping on.
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:15.360
Uh, for all of the neobanks that are listening and the trading platforms that are listening and the the banks that are listening.
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:19.920
I highly recommend that you go and take a look at Hallid at Halliday's website.
00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:25.280
They just updated it and they have a really cool globe that you can click on and see coverage and everything like that.
00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:27.199
Uh, the team is super, super accessible.
00:53:27.199 --> 00:53:29.519
So please, please, please reach out to them.
00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:31.199
I appreciate all of you listening.
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:33.519
And as always, stay stable.