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So I'm curious.
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In the midst of all of that, you created comedy,
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I think unintentionally.
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Yes, what was the question?
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I don't remember. Menopause. It's real, so real, talking about
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Can we talk about menopause? Listen, it's where me out? Yeah, No,
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I don't know what I talked about yesterday.
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I know we were talking about being funny.
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Yes, we were talking about being funny, shocker and pain
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and pain.
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Yes, I mean, I think you don't like your cry
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I got back there. I do this from the stage.
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I'm like what we say.
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Oh yeah, yeah, I think I think it's innate in me.
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My mom's funny, so I think, which I didn't really know,
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but I think that's curious.
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I love this story. It's great. And my kids are
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both very witty.
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My son is extremely witty. But yeah, I think I
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think you have to laugh at yourself.
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Man.
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I just I'm the first one if you ever come
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to my show, like I'm I'm a self deprecator all.
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Oh, all the way.
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I mean, I've listened to so many of your shows.
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Hey, I'm gonna get myself before you get me. You
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know what I mean exactly, But also like, yeah, we
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have to laugh about it. Otherwise I would be curled
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up in the fetal position in the corner of the
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room eating pills. I think too, I didn't have this
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in my first marriage. I had so much going on
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there that I didn't experience this. But but me and
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my husband have so much fun together. We laugh all
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the time, Like I swear by it. I'm like, it
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keeps us connected, it keeps things fun and light. And
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I am so serious and I hate that about myself.
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I don't like that about myself either. But you're funny
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and I'm not funny, so you know, you can still
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have a serious side.
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I'm just way too serious.
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I don't know though, I mean, because when I go there,
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I go harden the paint, you know, and I have
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to remind myself to lighten up.
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But yeah, having that with my husband, he's he's He's
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a good.
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Perpetually positive human being, which I desperately need in my life.
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And and so what pulls that out of me? I
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want to yell at yeah, stop it, stop being positive.
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But if we were both negative. But then sometimes I think,
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but what am I bringing to the table? You know,
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I know what he brings, but like, how is my negativity.
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You know, how is this a positive thing? I like
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to say I keep him grounded. That's probably not true,
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but that's by I tell myself, keep him grounded. We'll see, Okay.
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So I wish he was here he could speak for himself.
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So before we started talking on camera, you know, I
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said to you or we talked about some of the
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questions that I thought about asking, and one of them
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was something about, you know, what's next, what's you know?
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What are you you know, looking forward to working on creatively?
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And you said nothing.
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Yeah, I'm mentopol It's all great. I mean, I mean
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the truth is when it starts and we have so
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many female viewers, yeah, or just sitting in the middle
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of that, there's just this flatness that happens.
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Well said, it's terrible.
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You lose your you lose all your spark.
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Yes, I feel that everything feels muddy to me. It's
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like early pregnancy all my my brain.
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Yes, but I don't even think I was this bad
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darn pregnancy. And here's why, because I had a focus.
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I'm like, Okay, I got this baby. I got to
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read all the books, I got to learn all the things,
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I got to do this. Well, you know, and if
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I'm being really honest, pre menopause, which is what I'm in.
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Perimenopause and a lot of other life things happened to
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me within a couple of years and then it my
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eyes open and I was like, oh, I'm in the
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middle of the trenches, and that I kind of am
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still in it, but I'm starting to have some more hope.
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But it takes more work for me to have hope
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in my older age because I think my hormones are
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they affect me right, they affect us and we feel crazy.
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We don't know why, there's just so much coming at us.
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Feel I don't feel creative right now. I do struggle
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with what is my career doing?
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R what in the world.
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Half the time I'm in churches, half the time I'm
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in a comedy club. Half the time I want to
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write and be inspirational, and then the other rest of
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the time I want to sit and watch the cooking
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chain of the Food Network.
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I mean, you know what I mean.
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Or I want to get up at noon. My body
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is tired. My kids have left. I've got a son
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who's twenty two, Noah, he's about to get married. My
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daughter Ava turns nineteen yesterday. She is in the same
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rehab that my mom got clean at.
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She's doing great. I'm so proud of We just love her, right,
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It's wonderful.
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But all these things, you know, my kids leave, and
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I used to be a worship leader number one, I'm
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not anymore. Now I'm doing comedy, which I didn't and
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you know, anticipate my hormones have messed my voice up,
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so I can't sing.
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So all these things.
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That defined me for so long, I don't have those anymore.
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And I don't think I realized how much of what
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I did defined me rather than who I am, And
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so I'm having to find that again.
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But there's so.
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Much up here and in here, and so much of
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my purpose that I'm still trying to figure out. But what.
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And I told Tasha this on the way, I said,
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you know, one thing I'm realizing is no matter how
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I feel, no matter how hopeless I feel, no matter
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how uncreative I feel, no matter the lack of purpose
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that I feel, none of it changes.
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God's playing for my life. Yeah, and I don't know
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what that is at fifty. I'm almost fifty next month
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in januarygeous.
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By the way, thank you.
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You are to tell me again later.
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Gorgeous.
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Okay.
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I mean I just never anticipated being here. I've always
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had a purpose. I've always had I'm going to be
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a worship leader. I'm going to be a mom. Now
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I'm going to be a single mom. Now I have
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to provide. Now I'm going to be a comedian. And
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now I'm like, now what am I going to do?
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I don't think I saw myself being forty nine.
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You know, I knew I saw women this age.
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I saw my grandmother, I saw her lose her hair,
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her hair get thin. I saw women go through stages
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where they didn't care where they were tired.
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But I never put myself in that position. Thought I'm
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going to be that one day.
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But I told somebody the other day, I said, I
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see how women become Karen's sorry.
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To all you women named Karen. It's really terrible that
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your name got pegged for that.
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But I'm like women, we get so tired and so exhausted,
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and I think one day we just go I'm done here,
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I don't care, and you're my target.
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Yeah, you know. So I have a little bit more
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grace though.
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And then I understand how women, old women just say
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anything they.
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Want and look anyway they want. Stop stop doing the hair.
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I don't care. Forget about self, forget it.
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I mean, listen the fact that I'm still self tanning
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at forty nine.
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I mean I'm a catch.
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My husband will tell you clearly. Yeah, I mean it's
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just I see, I see. Now.
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I'm like, oh, we're tired.
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We're tired. We don't even know half the reasons we're tired.
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So I think giving myself some grace, and.
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I think giving yourself a lot. Oh, I need a
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lot of it.
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Yeah, you know, I wanted to go back to two things. One,
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what's what was the origin of what happened with Ava?
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You know, we, uh, we had a lot of struggles
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for a lot of years, and you know, I could
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unpack this a thousand ways, and we don't have all
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all that time. But I think that divorce was hard
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on my kids. I also think that my marriage at
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that time was hard on my kids. I think staying
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would have been hard on my kids. Right, So the
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best we can. I have two kids that have handled
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it in different ways, right, because everybody's different. But when
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Ava was thirteen, she started asking questions and I started
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giving her some answers, and the reality of some of
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those answers became very hard for her. Even just divorce
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in general was hard for her. So we had her
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in therapy for years early on, and she would do great,
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but she just had these tendencies.
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To self destruct. I'm so sorry.
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Yeah we are too, but you know what, she's taking
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it and she's working with it.
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We got to a place she graduated.
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In May from high school, and right before then we
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would go through like six month periods where we would.
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Find things out.
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We think she's doing great, we think things are one way,
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and all of a sudden we find out like, oh,
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things are not as we thought. And finally we just
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the four parents got together and we were like, we're
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out of tools. We've done therapy. You know, I've done therapy.
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I'm goodness gracious. I became a life coach, and I
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you know, I can't even help my own daughter. She
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needs more than we can give her. And my mom said,
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I'm telling you, get her into Women of Hope.
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It changed my life. And they had one bed open.
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The one bed open that was divine. Yeah, but how
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curious that you know that you had to go through
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such a long journey with your mom, and that journey
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became such a definitive journey for your self work right,
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you know, and how you you built your strength, and
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then that your mom comes around healed.
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Giving.
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Full circles, full circle for sure, what a gift. But
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her addiction ended up being you know, all that she
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had gone through.
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Well to me, I don't know if I'm right about this,
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but I would think in Ava's situation, she could look
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at what happened with her grandmother. One, there's hope, right,
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you know, One there can be healing, redemption, you can't
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get clean and sober. But the other thing, she didn't
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have to carry all the shame. She wasn't the only
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one of the family you ever had that, right, you know?
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Since right, I would hope that some of the shame
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would fall off. Yes, and it has because of her grandmother.
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Well, and my mother says, because I've asked her, how
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are you able what's different now? Because you would get
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clean for a few years and then you'd always go back.
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Why are you able to stay sober? And her immediate
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answer is, because I finally quit living in shame. The
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shame always sent me back, And Ava recently said to me,
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you tell anybody whatever you want.
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I do not live in shame. I am proud of myself.
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I love that. So what an inspiration. Now at nineteen,
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she's she's gonna change the world. She's gonna change Yeah,
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she's got a story that's incredible.
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But I so believe that.
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I mean, I've had.
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Periods of my life where I just was riddled with shame. Yeah,
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but I was so upset hurt about you know, and.
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I so you know, internalized it. Did that.
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Plus then it would isolate because I did I didn't
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want to sit with friends and kind of you know,
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what's going on in your life. I don't want to
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tell you about this, you know. Number One, then I'm
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not perfect, you know. Then I'm not really as good
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as you think I am. And two, I'm just I
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feel so icky about it. I just don't want to
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share it.
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And we don't have to deal with it. You don't
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have to start my.
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Mess out there on the table, which actually is the
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best thing you can do right right, and then the
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mess sort of lights a lot. But I really did
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not understand until after my husband's death only five years ago,
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the connection between you know, isolating, shame, self judgment. It's
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all like one big messy ball. And then when we
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begin to share and the shame kind of lessons a
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little bit, and then we don't judge yourself so harshly.
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Oh my gosh, that's just like all the lights in
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heaven going on. You know.
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Well, everybody's got their junk. I got so much. Come on,
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I all started.
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I could start a junk junk place. I call those
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junk store, No, like a big old place in the
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earth where you.
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Yeah, there you go, there you go.
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Well, we all probably could, you know, like, everybody's got that,
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And you're right, shame keeps us hidden and keeps us
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from living in freedom and having joy. And and Ava's
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in a place where all these girls going through this program,
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they've all a lot of.
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Them are court ordered to be there.
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I mean they've they've gone through a lot, and they
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their job, their only job is to talk about it
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openly and to get well. So she's in great company
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and she's learned like, oh what else is there? This
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is freedom? Like I'm going to live in this freedom
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and it's it's yeah, I mean I would take this
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all day long over some you know, perfect life she's lived,
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or her trying to hide, you know, like, yeah, get
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it out, I'm not ashamed.
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Well, I think the other thing that shamee does to us,
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and I think it does it to us spiritually, and
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I believe it does it to us in our relationships
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with our partners, our children, our parents, whomever, our closest
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relationships are. You know when when you start holding everything
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and you don't share and you're so you know, you
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just feel like you're not it's it's not okay for
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you to share it. You're not good enough if you
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share it. You have no intimacy in your life, no
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emotional intimacy, no spiritual intimacy, because because how can you,
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because you're not being honest.
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Yeah.
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So I'd love to really unpack it, and I know
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we can't. But you just said the most profound thing
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a minute ago. And I don't know if I.
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Love being profound you.
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I don't get that that doesn't get said about me
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a whole lot.
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So well, I think it's all profound. What you do,
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you just wrap it in something and that everybody laughs that.
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So you're talking about you know, what you're going through,
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the menopausea and all the changes in your life and
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really beginning to understand that your identity was and a mom,
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you know, being creative, even all the stuff you went
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through with your mom, and it wasn't really just about
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who you are internally? Yeah, what does that feel like
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when you kind of lay all the cards on the
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table and go, Okay, I don't have to be in
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any of these things anymore. I'm just I'm kind of
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looking at a clean slate here.
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I feel very raw and there is freedom in it,
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but there's also work in Like, well, what does that
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mean for me?
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Now? Who am I? Am? I good enough?
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Am I?
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You know?
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That is the question? That is the thing we put
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on ourselves. Yeah, but the truth is we were born
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good right.
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We were born good enough? Well.
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And also when you feel like there's something in your
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heart and I think we probably all have it, but
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not everybody. Maybe is it a place where they can
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tap in or get quiet. But I think when we
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get to a place where where we say, okay, God
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has created me.
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For this, this is the one thing that won't go
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away from me. What is it?
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And when you can when you can verbalize that, but
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then you don't see it happening in your life. Trusting
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God for it is really hard trusting God for this
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thing that you think you're created for but it's not
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really come to fruition.
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That's a tough spot to be in.
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That's sad if you let it be, and sometimes I
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let it be, I mean I do. It takes a
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lot for me to pull myself out of that. You know,
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I'm like, hey, I may be funny on a stage,
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but my husband will be the first one to tell you, like,
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I ain't always funny, you know, like I'll wallow in
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it for a minute. And I think we all tend
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to do that, but remembering who I actually am, what
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I feel God's created me for, even if it's for
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I'm gonna go rock these babies in the neck you
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or I'm gonna be here to take care of my
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grandkids or whatever it is, it doesn't have to be
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on a stage. I think getting okay with that. And
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until God brings it, you know, to.
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The forefront of your life. That's I think that's where
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the magic's at. But I haven't quite created it yet.
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I'm getting there, you know, I'm working towards it.
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Oh, I totally understand and get it because I mean
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a lot of times I do feel like I'm just
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treading water. Yeah, there's so much that I would love
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to do creatively. There's so much I feel called to do.
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But as you say, but nothing's happening. I can't see
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anything changing, and so I'm in there and it's like
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all my juices want to be way over.
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There doing this thing.
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And I think for women our age, you know, we
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strive so hard when we're young to do the thing
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or be the thing. I absolutely have the career, and
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then I think when you get here, you're like, you
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know something too.
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I'm talking like ninety miles an hour. But I love that.
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I think too. You know, when kids are little, we
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go what do you want to be when you grow up?
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And I'm realizing, like I have been a thousand things
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that I didn't know I was going to be, and
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so I don't even ask myself that anyone.
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I'm like, God, what do you want me to do next?
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Or in this moment? Like what is it? Because it's
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liable to change.
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I mean, I never thought I was going to be
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in comedy, and we didn't go much down the comedy.
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I wanted to be funnier Honestly, it's not funny at all.
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You just is not funny. Been terrible. This is terrible.
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People might have even cried, they did not laugh. For sure,
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they have not left.
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I failed. You watch a video. I don't know what
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to take.
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Well, when you were a worship leader, did you feel
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called to that one hundred percent? So when the comedy
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thing happened, was there a calling in it? No, ma'am,
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is there now?
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Yes, I see the purpose in it now. But but
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in the moment, nothing I was doing had was part
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of the plan. You know. I was working a desk job,
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I was back in my hometown. I was going the divorce,
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and like, none of that was I wasn't doing worship
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at that time.
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It's hard to do. It's hard to lead worship and
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while you're crying the whole time. That's a tough gig.
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That's so I laid that down for a minute. Son.
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Nothing I was doing was making sense anyway.
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And when this started happening, I even said to God, like,
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please don't, please, don't.
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This is not what I wanted to be known for.
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I l I was like, Lord, I knew something was coming.
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This was not this is not it.
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I don't want to be known for this filter face, like,
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shame on you, Lord, But it was so obvious that.
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This was the direction I was supposed to go.
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The door was open, and I really I went to
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the very edge and was like, uh uh, somebody's got
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to kick me through this door.
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You got kicked.
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I got kicked, and I did. I said, Okay, God,
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I will give it a go. If this is what
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you want me to do, which I'm sure it's not,
402
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but let's just try it out your let's do it
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your way. Then I was like, oh, the purpose is
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not for me to sing and touch people in this
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certain way.
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It's just to touch people however. I'll be available and
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however God wants me to do it. And man, surrendering
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to that is not fun.
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Surrender because it is it's just this what I'm not
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in control. Obviously we know we're not anyway, but we
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have this illusion of control, you know. And so giving
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that over was really hard for me. And it was
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a pride swallowing siege, which I think I just heard
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in the movie recently, and so yeah, it was really
415
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tough to give into that.
416
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But now you know I'm able to.
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And and look I'm to be really honest, I don't
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really feel like I'm a comedian.
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I don't.
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It's hard for me to call myself that because am
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I funny? Yeah, I'm pretty funny.
422
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But really, what I want to do is just make
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you feel normal. I just want to make women feel
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normal and men. But you know I'm a woman, So
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I want to get on stage and just tell you
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about my kids and tell you what I've gone through
427
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and tell you in a funny way.
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So the way you do, yeah.
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You do, and you make you make all the things
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that we judge ourselves about, Okay, you strip away the
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way we judge ourselves.
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Thank you for it.
433
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It's amazing.
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Thank you. That's the hope. It's all I can ask for.
435
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It's a ministry, Yes it is.
436
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It's a ministry, and I definitely can say now like
437
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I'm calling to it.
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Because just what you said today, so many people are
439
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going to go she did it again. I feel normal,
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I hope because of what she's going through. Because I've
441
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been over here trying to do this thing on my
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own and wondering why I feel so horrible and blaming
443
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myself for it. And here's Heather Land who's got it
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all together everywhere, and she just made it normal.
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For me, which I love that. That's the illusion that
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I have it all together. I mean, it's a hot mess.
447
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It's because you're on a stage, all right.
448
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We're also with a little bit of a stage that
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we've got it together.
450
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We don't smoke in mirrors.
451
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You know. It's that sixty minutes of that show that.
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We haven't together. Maybe yeah, you know it's true.
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But you've got a voice for people, and you you normalize,
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you strip away judgment.
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I love it, I hope. So yeah, thank you for that.
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Thank you so much for being here today, thank you
457
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for having thank you for your vulnerability. We'll do another one.
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It will be all fun.
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Let's do it.
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I won't ask anything.
461
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Let's bad.
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Question can be in a better direction next time.
463
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The tears out and it was great to be here.
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I love Thank you, Sorry, thank you,
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So I'm curious.
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In the midst of all of that, you created comedy,
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I think unintentionally.
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Yes, what was the question?
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I don't remember. Menopause. It's real, so real, talking about
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Can we talk about menopause? Listen, it's where me out? Yeah, No,
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I don't know what I talked about yesterday.
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I know we were talking about being funny.
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Yes, we were talking about being funny, shocker and pain
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and pain.
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Yes, I mean, I think you don't like your cry
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I got back there. I do this from the stage.
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I'm like what we say.
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Oh yeah, yeah, I think I think it's innate in me.
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My mom's funny, so I think, which I didn't really know,
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but I think that's curious.
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I love this story. It's great. And my kids are
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both very witty.
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My son is extremely witty. But yeah, I think I
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think you have to laugh at yourself.
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Man.
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I just I'm the first one if you ever come
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to my show, like I'm I'm a self deprecator all.
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Oh, all the way.
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I mean, I've listened to so many of your shows.
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Hey, I'm gonna get myself before you get me. You
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know what I mean exactly, But also like, yeah, we
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have to laugh about it. Otherwise I would be curled
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up in the fetal position in the corner of the
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room eating pills. I think too, I didn't have this
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in my first marriage. I had so much going on
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there that I didn't experience this. But but me and
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my husband have so much fun together. We laugh all
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the time, Like I swear by it. I'm like, it
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keeps us connected, it keeps things fun and light. And
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I am so serious and I hate that about myself.
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I don't like that about myself either. But you're funny
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and I'm not funny, so you know, you can still
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have a serious side.
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I'm just way too serious.
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I don't know though, I mean, because when I go there,
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I go harden the paint, you know, and I have
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to remind myself to lighten up.
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But yeah, having that with my husband, he's he's He's
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a good.
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Perpetually positive human being, which I desperately need in my life.
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And and so what pulls that out of me? I
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want to yell at yeah, stop it, stop being positive.
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But if we were both negative. But then sometimes I think,
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but what am I bringing to the table? You know,
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I know what he brings, but like, how is my negativity.
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You know, how is this a positive thing? I like
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to say I keep him grounded. That's probably not true,
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but that's by I tell myself, keep him grounded. We'll see, Okay.
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So I wish he was here he could speak for himself.
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So before we started talking on camera, you know, I
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said to you or we talked about some of the
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questions that I thought about asking, and one of them
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was something about, you know, what's next, what's you know?
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What are you you know, looking forward to working on creatively?
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And you said nothing.
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Yeah, I'm mentopol It's all great. I mean, I mean
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the truth is when it starts and we have so
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many female viewers, yeah, or just sitting in the middle
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of that, there's just this flatness that happens.
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Well said, it's terrible.
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You lose your you lose all your spark.
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Yes, I feel that everything feels muddy to me. It's
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like early pregnancy all my my brain.
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Yes, but I don't even think I was this bad
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darn pregnancy. And here's why, because I had a focus.
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I'm like, Okay, I got this baby. I got to
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read all the books, I got to learn all the things,
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I got to do this. Well, you know, and if
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I'm being really honest, pre menopause, which is what I'm in.
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Perimenopause and a lot of other life things happened to
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me within a couple of years and then it my
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eyes open and I was like, oh, I'm in the
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middle of the trenches, and that I kind of am
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still in it, but I'm starting to have some more hope.
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But it takes more work for me to have hope
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in my older age because I think my hormones are
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they affect me right, they affect us and we feel crazy.
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We don't know why, there's just so much coming at us.
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Feel I don't feel creative right now. I do struggle
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with what is my career doing?
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R what in the world.
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Half the time I'm in churches, half the time I'm
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in a comedy club. Half the time I want to
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write and be inspirational, and then the other rest of
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the time I want to sit and watch the cooking
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chain of the Food Network.
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I mean, you know what I mean.
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Or I want to get up at noon. My body
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is tired. My kids have left. I've got a son
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who's twenty two, Noah, he's about to get married. My
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daughter Ava turns nineteen yesterday. She is in the same
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rehab that my mom got clean at.
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She's doing great. I'm so proud of We just love her, right,
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It's wonderful.
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But all these things, you know, my kids leave, and
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I used to be a worship leader number one, I'm
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not anymore. Now I'm doing comedy, which I didn't and
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you know, anticipate my hormones have messed my voice up,
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so I can't sing.
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So all these things.
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That defined me for so long, I don't have those anymore.
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And I don't think I realized how much of what
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I did defined me rather than who I am, And
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so I'm having to find that again.
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But there's so.
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Much up here and in here, and so much of
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my purpose that I'm still trying to figure out. But what.
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And I told Tasha this on the way, I said,
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you know, one thing I'm realizing is no matter how
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I feel, no matter how hopeless I feel, no matter
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how uncreative I feel, no matter the lack of purpose
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that I feel, none of it changes.
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God's playing for my life. Yeah, and I don't know
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what that is at fifty. I'm almost fifty next month
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in januarygeous.
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By the way, thank you.
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You are to tell me again later.
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Gorgeous.
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Okay.
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I mean I just never anticipated being here. I've always
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had a purpose. I've always had I'm going to be
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a worship leader. I'm going to be a mom. Now
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I'm going to be a single mom. Now I have
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to provide. Now I'm going to be a comedian. And
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now I'm like, now what am I going to do?
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I don't think I saw myself being forty nine.
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You know, I knew I saw women this age.
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I saw my grandmother, I saw her lose her hair,
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her hair get thin. I saw women go through stages
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where they didn't care where they were tired.
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But I never put myself in that position. Thought I'm
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going to be that one day.
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But I told somebody the other day, I said, I
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see how women become Karen's sorry.
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To all you women named Karen. It's really terrible that
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your name got pegged for that.
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But I'm like women, we get so tired and so exhausted,
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and I think one day we just go I'm done here,
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I don't care, and you're my target.
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Yeah, you know. So I have a little bit more
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grace though.
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And then I understand how women, old women just say
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anything they.
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Want and look anyway they want. Stop stop doing the hair.
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I don't care. Forget about self, forget it.
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I mean, listen the fact that I'm still self tanning
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at forty nine.
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I mean I'm a catch.
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My husband will tell you clearly. Yeah, I mean it's
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just I see, I see. Now.
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I'm like, oh, we're tired.
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We're tired. We don't even know half the reasons we're tired.
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So I think giving myself some grace, and.
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I think giving yourself a lot. Oh, I need a
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lot of it.
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Yeah, you know, I wanted to go back to two things. One,
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what's what was the origin of what happened with Ava?
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You know, we, uh, we had a lot of struggles
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for a lot of years, and you know, I could
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unpack this a thousand ways, and we don't have all
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all that time. But I think that divorce was hard
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on my kids. I also think that my marriage at
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that time was hard on my kids. I think staying
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would have been hard on my kids. Right, So the
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best we can. I have two kids that have handled
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it in different ways, right, because everybody's different. But when
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Ava was thirteen, she started asking questions and I started
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giving her some answers, and the reality of some of
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those answers became very hard for her. Even just divorce
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in general was hard for her. So we had her
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in therapy for years early on, and she would do great,
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but she just had these tendencies.
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To self destruct. I'm so sorry.
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Yeah we are too, but you know what, she's taking
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it and she's working with it.
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We got to a place she graduated.
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In May from high school, and right before then we
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would go through like six month periods where we would.
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Find things out.
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We think she's doing great, we think things are one way,
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and all of a sudden we find out like, oh,
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things are not as we thought. And finally we just
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the four parents got together and we were like, we're
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out of tools. We've done therapy. You know, I've done therapy.
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I'm goodness gracious. I became a life coach, and I
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you know, I can't even help my own daughter. She
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needs more than we can give her. And my mom said,
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I'm telling you, get her into Women of Hope.
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It changed my life. And they had one bed open.
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The one bed open that was divine. Yeah, but how
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curious that you know that you had to go through
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such a long journey with your mom, and that journey
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became such a definitive journey for your self work right,
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you know, and how you you built your strength, and
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then that your mom comes around healed.
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Giving.
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Full circles, full circle for sure, what a gift. But
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her addiction ended up being you know, all that she
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had gone through.
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Well to me, I don't know if I'm right about this,
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but I would think in Ava's situation, she could look
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at what happened with her grandmother. One, there's hope, right,
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you know, One there can be healing, redemption, you can't
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get clean and sober. But the other thing, she didn't
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have to carry all the shame. She wasn't the only
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one of the family you ever had that, right, you know?
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Since right, I would hope that some of the shame
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would fall off. Yes, and it has because of her grandmother.
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Well, and my mother says, because I've asked her, how
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are you able what's different now? Because you would get
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clean for a few years and then you'd always go back.
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Why are you able to stay sober? And her immediate
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answer is, because I finally quit living in shame. The
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shame always sent me back, And Ava recently said to me,
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you tell anybody whatever you want.
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I do not live in shame. I am proud of myself.
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I love that. So what an inspiration. Now at nineteen,
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she's she's gonna change the world. She's gonna change Yeah,
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she's got a story that's incredible.
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But I so believe that.
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I mean, I've had.
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Periods of my life where I just was riddled with shame. Yeah,
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but I was so upset hurt about you know, and.
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I so you know, internalized it. Did that.
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Plus then it would isolate because I did I didn't
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want to sit with friends and kind of you know,
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what's going on in your life. I don't want to
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tell you about this, you know. Number One, then I'm
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not perfect, you know. Then I'm not really as good
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as you think I am. And two, I'm just I
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feel so icky about it. I just don't want to
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share it.
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And we don't have to deal with it. You don't
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have to start my.
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Mess out there on the table, which actually is the
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best thing you can do right right, and then the
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mess sort of lights a lot. But I really did
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not understand until after my husband's death only five years ago,
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the connection between you know, isolating, shame, self judgment. It's
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all like one big messy ball. And then when we
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begin to share and the shame kind of lessons a
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little bit, and then we don't judge yourself so harshly.
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Oh my gosh, that's just like all the lights in
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heaven going on. You know.
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Well, everybody's got their junk. I got so much. Come on,
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I all started.
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I could start a junk junk place. I call those
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junk store, No, like a big old place in the
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earth where you.
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Yeah, there you go, there you go.
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Well, we all probably could, you know, like, everybody's got that,
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And you're right, shame keeps us hidden and keeps us
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from living in freedom and having joy. And and Ava's
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in a place where all these girls going through this program,
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they've all a lot of.
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Them are court ordered to be there.
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I mean they've they've gone through a lot, and they
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their job, their only job is to talk about it
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openly and to get well. So she's in great company
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and she's learned like, oh what else is there? This
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is freedom? Like I'm going to live in this freedom
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and it's it's yeah, I mean I would take this
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all day long over some you know, perfect life she's lived,
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or her trying to hide, you know, like, yeah, get
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it out, I'm not ashamed.
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Well, I think the other thing that shamee does to us,
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and I think it does it to us spiritually, and
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I believe it does it to us in our relationships
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with our partners, our children, our parents, whomever, our closest
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relationships are. You know when when you start holding everything
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and you don't share and you're so you know, you
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just feel like you're not it's it's not okay for
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you to share it. You're not good enough if you
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share it. You have no intimacy in your life, no
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emotional intimacy, no spiritual intimacy, because because how can you,
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because you're not being honest.
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Yeah.
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So I'd love to really unpack it, and I know
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we can't. But you just said the most profound thing
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a minute ago. And I don't know if I.
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Love being profound you.
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I don't get that that doesn't get said about me
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a whole lot.
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So well, I think it's all profound. What you do,
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you just wrap it in something and that everybody laughs that.
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So you're talking about you know, what you're going through,
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the menopausea and all the changes in your life and
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really beginning to understand that your identity was and a mom,
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you know, being creative, even all the stuff you went
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through with your mom, and it wasn't really just about
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who you are internally? Yeah, what does that feel like
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when you kind of lay all the cards on the
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table and go, Okay, I don't have to be in
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any of these things anymore. I'm just I'm kind of
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looking at a clean slate here.
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I feel very raw and there is freedom in it,
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but there's also work in Like, well, what does that
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mean for me?
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Now? Who am I? Am? I good enough?
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Am I?
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You know?
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That is the question? That is the thing we put
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on ourselves. Yeah, but the truth is we were born
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good right.
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We were born good enough? Well.
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And also when you feel like there's something in your
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heart and I think we probably all have it, but
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not everybody. Maybe is it a place where they can
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tap in or get quiet. But I think when we
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get to a place where where we say, okay, God
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has created me.
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For this, this is the one thing that won't go
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away from me. What is it?
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And when you can when you can verbalize that, but
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then you don't see it happening in your life. Trusting
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God for it is really hard trusting God for this
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thing that you think you're created for but it's not
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really come to fruition.
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That's a tough spot to be in.
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That's sad if you let it be, and sometimes I
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let it be, I mean I do. It takes a
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lot for me to pull myself out of that. You know,
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I'm like, hey, I may be funny on a stage,
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but my husband will be the first one to tell you, like,
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I ain't always funny, you know, like I'll wallow in
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it for a minute. And I think we all tend
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to do that, but remembering who I actually am, what
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I feel God's created me for, even if it's for
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I'm gonna go rock these babies in the neck you
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or I'm gonna be here to take care of my
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grandkids or whatever it is, it doesn't have to be
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on a stage. I think getting okay with that. And
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until God brings it, you know, to.
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The forefront of your life. That's I think that's where
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the magic's at. But I haven't quite created it yet.
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I'm getting there, you know, I'm working towards it.
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Oh, I totally understand and get it because I mean
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a lot of times I do feel like I'm just
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treading water. Yeah, there's so much that I would love
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to do creatively. There's so much I feel called to do.
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But as you say, but nothing's happening. I can't see
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anything changing, and so I'm in there and it's like
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all my juices want to be way over.
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There doing this thing.
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And I think for women our age, you know, we
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strive so hard when we're young to do the thing
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or be the thing. I absolutely have the career, and
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then I think when you get here, you're like, you
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know something too.
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I'm talking like ninety miles an hour. But I love that.
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I think too. You know, when kids are little, we
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go what do you want to be when you grow up?
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And I'm realizing, like I have been a thousand things
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that I didn't know I was going to be, and
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so I don't even ask myself that anyone.
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I'm like, God, what do you want me to do next?
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Or in this moment? Like what is it? Because it's
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liable to change.
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I mean, I never thought I was going to be
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in comedy, and we didn't go much down the comedy.
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I wanted to be funnier Honestly, it's not funny at all.
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You just is not funny. Been terrible. This is terrible.
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People might have even cried, they did not laugh. For sure,
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they have not left.
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I failed. You watch a video. I don't know what
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to take.
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Well, when you were a worship leader, did you feel
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called to that one hundred percent? So when the comedy
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thing happened, was there a calling in it? No, ma'am,
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is there now?
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Yes, I see the purpose in it now. But but
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in the moment, nothing I was doing had was part
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of the plan. You know. I was working a desk job,
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I was back in my hometown. I was going the divorce,
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and like, none of that was I wasn't doing worship
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at that time.
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It's hard to do. It's hard to lead worship and
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while you're crying the whole time. That's a tough gig.
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That's so I laid that down for a minute. Son.
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Nothing I was doing was making sense anyway.
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And when this started happening, I even said to God, like,
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please don't, please, don't.
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This is not what I wanted to be known for.
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I l I was like, Lord, I knew something was coming.
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This was not this is not it.
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I don't want to be known for this filter face, like,
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shame on you, Lord, But it was so obvious that.
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This was the direction I was supposed to go.
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The door was open, and I really I went to
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the very edge and was like, uh uh, somebody's got
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to kick me through this door.
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You got kicked.
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I got kicked, and I did. I said, Okay, God,
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I will give it a go. If this is what
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you want me to do, which I'm sure it's not,
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but let's just try it out your let's do it
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your way. Then I was like, oh, the purpose is
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not for me to sing and touch people in this
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certain way.
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It's just to touch people however. I'll be available and
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however God wants me to do it. And man, surrendering
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to that is not fun.
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Surrender because it is it's just this what I'm not
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in control. Obviously we know we're not anyway, but we
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have this illusion of control, you know. And so giving
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that over was really hard for me. And it was
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a pride swallowing siege, which I think I just heard
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in the movie recently, and so yeah, it was really
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tough to give into that.
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But now you know I'm able to.
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And and look I'm to be really honest, I don't
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really feel like I'm a comedian.
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I don't.
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It's hard for me to call myself that because am
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I funny? Yeah, I'm pretty funny.
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But really, what I want to do is just make
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you feel normal. I just want to make women feel
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normal and men. But you know I'm a woman, So
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I want to get on stage and just tell you
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about my kids and tell you what I've gone through
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and tell you in a funny way.
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So the way you do, yeah.
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You do, and you make you make all the things
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that we judge ourselves about, Okay, you strip away the
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way we judge ourselves.
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Thank you for it.
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It's amazing.
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Thank you. That's the hope. It's all I can ask for.
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It's a ministry, Yes it is.
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It's a ministry, and I definitely can say now like
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I'm calling to it.
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Because just what you said today, so many people are
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going to go she did it again. I feel normal,
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I hope because of what she's going through. Because I've
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been over here trying to do this thing on my
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own and wondering why I feel so horrible and blaming
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myself for it. And here's Heather Land who's got it
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all together everywhere, and she just made it normal.
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For me, which I love that. That's the illusion that
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I have it all together. I mean, it's a hot mess.
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It's because you're on a stage, all right.
448
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We're also with a little bit of a stage that
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we've got it together.
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We don't smoke in mirrors.
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You know. It's that sixty minutes of that show that.
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We haven't together. Maybe yeah, you know it's true.
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But you've got a voice for people, and you you normalize,
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you strip away judgment.
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I love it, I hope. So yeah, thank you for that.
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Thank you so much for being here today, thank you
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for having thank you for your vulnerability. We'll do another one.
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It will be all fun.
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Let's do it.
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I won't ask anything.
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Let's bad.
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Question can be in a better direction next time.
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The tears out and it was great to be here.
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I love Thank you, Sorry, thank you,