WEBVTT
1
00:00:11.070 --> 00:00:15.109
If you haven't heard about anchor,
it's the easiest way to make a podcast.
2
00:00:15.710 --> 00:00:20.469
Let me explain. It's free.
There are creation tools that allow you
3
00:00:20.550 --> 00:00:23.820
to record and edit your podcast or
right from your phone. On computer,
4
00:00:24.699 --> 00:00:28.219
Anchor will distupid your podcast for you
so it can be heard on spotify,
5
00:00:28.739 --> 00:00:33.219
apple podcasts and many more. You
can make money from your podcast with a
6
00:00:33.259 --> 00:00:37.689
no minimum listenership. It's everything you
need to make a podcast in one place.
7
00:00:38.689 --> 00:00:42.490
Download the free anchor APP or go
to Anchor Dot FM to get started.
8
00:00:44.729 --> 00:00:47.490
Welcome back to the SAUMA. We
take every issue one long at a
9
00:00:47.570 --> 00:00:53.240
time. I'm Bryce Akins and had
a very special guest, you know,
10
00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:57.240
with me to today. And it's
a lot of times where you can you
11
00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:03.399
bring in people or you refer to
people as a friend, you know,
12
00:01:04.150 --> 00:01:12.230
a buddy, acquaintance, whatever it
may be, coworker, but if you
13
00:01:12.310 --> 00:01:21.260
don't have, you know, a
real, true relationship behind that's really not
14
00:01:21.500 --> 00:01:27.219
more than just, you know,
a kind introduction. But you know,
15
00:01:29.659 --> 00:01:33.810
the guest has joined us today in
the Sawmill is someone I can sider,
16
00:01:34.090 --> 00:01:41.010
you know, a true friend,
a true brother. You know, I
17
00:01:41.409 --> 00:01:47.519
can't remember how many times I called
on his assistance. You know for answer
18
00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:52.640
a question, you need a ride
if my bad of a car battery broke
19
00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:57.319
down, just someone that you can
rely on in the clutch. So it's
20
00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.870
my friend that we all affectionately know. It's Joe P and I just want
21
00:02:00.909 --> 00:02:07.750
to introduce Joe to audience. How
you doing, Joe? Doing good,
22
00:02:07.829 --> 00:02:13.870
glad to be here. And so
just a little backstory and how I know
23
00:02:14.030 --> 00:02:20.060
Joe. This was years ago,
many moons ago over, almost fifteen years
24
00:02:20.060 --> 00:02:25.340
ago, and I was interviewing for
internship. I was an intern. She
25
00:02:25.539 --> 00:02:31.009
was like first job and I believe
I was going in when you were coming
26
00:02:31.090 --> 00:02:36.090
out, or vice versa. We
have both finished somehow the same time.
27
00:02:36.849 --> 00:02:40.409
Yeah, I was interviewing for the
actual job at the time. So I
28
00:02:40.569 --> 00:02:46.319
was there visiting the office as a
as an applicant, and I think you
29
00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:50.439
were there doing your internship at the
time. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly
30
00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:55.879
right. I was finishing up my
last year a law school and so we
31
00:02:57.080 --> 00:03:00.990
was in the same office and men
at that same time. And then,
32
00:03:00.389 --> 00:03:06.310
you know, fast forward when out, you know, I guess the year
33
00:03:06.349 --> 00:03:12.509
later when I ended up vilely working
and then Joe was one of the first
34
00:03:12.789 --> 00:03:17.620
faces I recognize within the office and
so you know, it's been ever since
35
00:03:17.659 --> 00:03:24.620
then it's been a a strong bond, strong friendship, and that's when I
36
00:03:24.659 --> 00:03:32.490
appreciate. But you know, we
brought in, we had guests came on
37
00:03:32.569 --> 00:03:36.849
the saw mill and talk about their
profession and, you know, droving down
38
00:03:36.889 --> 00:03:39.610
in this profession and minute. But
this is one with one to talk about.
39
00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:46.000
You know how it was being a
new lawyer and you know, you
40
00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:53.159
know tackling the legal field, but
a tough subject that a lot of people
41
00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:58.990
want to shy away from, and
that's the issue of recovery. And you
42
00:03:59.069 --> 00:04:01.349
know, I just want to ask
Joe. It's like, how is that
43
00:04:01.469 --> 00:04:10.620
journey being for you and what started
that that journey? I mean, you
44
00:04:10.740 --> 00:04:13.699
know, before you can get to
the point of recovery, you got to
45
00:04:13.740 --> 00:04:17.300
get to basically you got to hit
the bottom and you got to get to
46
00:04:17.339 --> 00:04:23.180
the point of surrender. So when
we talking about recovery, you know audience
47
00:04:23.220 --> 00:04:26.569
out there might be wondering what do
we mean by recovery? Well, I
48
00:04:26.649 --> 00:04:30.250
mean you know it's one of those
things that's uncomfortable to talk about in polite
49
00:04:30.329 --> 00:04:36.089
society today and that it has carry
some of a stigma. But you know,
50
00:04:36.209 --> 00:04:41.879
everyone knows someone who's dealing with it. were talking about substance and alcohol
51
00:04:41.879 --> 00:04:46.600
abuse. So you know, it's
funny that our introduction should, you know,
52
00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:50.120
should go back fifteen years, so
when we started in the same office
53
00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:55.709
together. You know, because that's
a big, big part of my story
54
00:04:55.829 --> 00:05:00.269
too, is a starting together.
That office is too young attorneys and you
55
00:05:00.709 --> 00:05:04.670
know, just yesterday, let you
guys know, right now I am coming
56
00:05:04.709 --> 00:05:13.139
up on about five days from being
six months ober. That's awesome. Six
57
00:05:13.220 --> 00:05:16.980
months ober from alcohol and I actually
I'm not going to say sober. I'll
58
00:05:17.019 --> 00:05:20.689
say it's been almost six months since
I've had a drink, but I'm still
59
00:05:20.810 --> 00:05:25.730
working on my sobriety right now.
That's the better way to put it.
60
00:05:26.410 --> 00:05:29.089
But yeah, I mean the story
goes back at you know, as far
61
00:05:29.170 --> 00:05:33.250
as you know. But I have
my first drink really and then, you
62
00:05:33.370 --> 00:05:40.279
know, I was the I was
a typical college drinker. It more was
63
00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:45.959
social drinker. I was a weekend
drinker and then, like like a lot
64
00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.790
of young people my age, I
was primarily a binge drinker. So,
65
00:05:49.949 --> 00:05:54.629
you know, I went to,
you know, a big sec school and
66
00:05:55.550 --> 00:06:00.509
you know, tailgating on Saturdays was
always a big deal. So I came
67
00:06:00.550 --> 00:06:03.579
up in that culture. We spend
a lot of time drinking really heavily on
68
00:06:03.699 --> 00:06:08.899
the weekends and then, you know, studying really hard on the week days,
69
00:06:08.939 --> 00:06:11.420
and they just kind of carried over
in the law school and then,
70
00:06:13.060 --> 00:06:16.100
you know, when you and I
started together. I mean it, you
71
00:06:16.180 --> 00:06:19.970
know, obviously we se had a
lot of good times together. A lot
72
00:06:20.009 --> 00:06:24.250
of those good times did involved alcohol. That's true, you know. I
73
00:06:24.850 --> 00:06:30.889
mean, you know, I remember, you know, sporting events or if
74
00:06:30.930 --> 00:06:39.680
it was even social events with,
you know, other attorneys that you know,
75
00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:46.240
found myself downtown, you know,
for one thing, and then night
76
00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:51.589
just goes on and on and on. You know. But what do you
77
00:06:51.709 --> 00:06:57.550
say in you know, and there's
interest about that because it's a lot of
78
00:06:57.870 --> 00:07:00.310
and were talking about this before we
started on that. It was a recent
79
00:07:00.389 --> 00:07:08.779
study, but the by the ABA
that found that one in five lawyers are
80
00:07:08.899 --> 00:07:13.500
problem drinkers, and that's double the
rate of other professional to have a similar
81
00:07:13.540 --> 00:07:19.009
level of education, and it's usually
younger. Lawyers have been practicing less than
82
00:07:19.050 --> 00:07:26.449
ten years. Ten the show the
highest rates of substance abuse and mental problems.
83
00:07:26.730 --> 00:07:31.560
And you know, was it,
you know, this particular partite to
84
00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:41.079
you know, coping mechanisms, to
commenty with expectations or the growing demand of
85
00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:46.470
the profession itself. But did you
think it was just a sense of dealing
86
00:07:46.470 --> 00:07:53.029
with the job? But was it
want so of a way to just to
87
00:07:53.110 --> 00:08:00.300
fit in with, you know,
other colleagues and to then that way all
88
00:08:00.339 --> 00:08:03.420
I think it was a combination of
all of that and, you know,
89
00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:05.300
quite honestly, I think you probably
going to agree with me on this one.
90
00:08:05.379 --> 00:08:11.779
But you know, one out of
five is probably a conservative estimate because,
91
00:08:11.379 --> 00:08:15.250
let's be honest, in the legal
field and then the legal professing,
92
00:08:15.930 --> 00:08:22.889
alcohol is the social lubricant, is
the professional lubricant, it is the you
93
00:08:22.009 --> 00:08:26.360
know, it's the networking tool of
choice. I mean there's nothing you don't
94
00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:31.320
do really in the legal profession that
don't involve alcohol at some point in another,
95
00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:35.039
and I think it's just ingrained in
the profession. Now, what's the
96
00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:39.320
reason for that? Is this planning
of them? I mean yeah, this
97
00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:43.830
there's the actual job itself to very
demanding job and you spend most of your
98
00:08:43.950 --> 00:08:48.549
trying trying to help out other people
and try to solve other people's problems.
99
00:08:48.029 --> 00:08:52.269
But at the end of the day, you know, you come in and
100
00:08:52.350 --> 00:08:56.700
you spend, you know, eight
to twelve hours in the office listening to
101
00:08:56.779 --> 00:09:00.580
other people's problems and, you know, quote unquote, counseling and advising other
102
00:09:00.700 --> 00:09:05.340
people, and you leave that office
and then who do you take your problems
103
00:09:05.379 --> 00:09:07.659
to? Who Do you take that
too? I mean, fortunately for me
104
00:09:07.779 --> 00:09:11.169
and you, you know, we
had each other, we had other other
105
00:09:11.289 --> 00:09:15.649
young colleagues. I was in office
with us. But how do we deal
106
00:09:15.769 --> 00:09:20.090
with it? You know, and
that's that's basically you and I remember we
107
00:09:20.250 --> 00:09:22.850
dealt with it by leaving the office, loosening our ties, walking down the
108
00:09:22.929 --> 00:09:30.159
sweet and going to happy our hitting
the bar, you know, whatever it
109
00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:33.600
was. But Ninety nine or not
ninety nine, but in a good,
110
00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:37.879
a good part of that time that
we spent dealing with our stresses from work,
111
00:09:37.990 --> 00:09:43.149
we usually resorted to alcohol. Now, does that mean that we're all
112
00:09:43.190 --> 00:09:46.190
alcoholics because we had to do that? Now, it doesn't. I mean
113
00:09:46.950 --> 00:09:50.710
some people are social drinkers, some
people responsible drinkers, and then there's people
114
00:09:50.789 --> 00:09:54.620
like myself, well, alcoholics,
and then you know, and you know,
115
00:09:54.740 --> 00:10:00.539
even during that time, I remember
it was a good push of people
116
00:10:00.539 --> 00:10:03.820
that came out that they didn't have
a drink at all. Yeah, absolutely,
117
00:10:05.059 --> 00:10:07.490
and you know, that just goes
to show that, you know,
118
00:10:09.330 --> 00:10:13.049
it may not be the profession itself, because there are people in the profession
119
00:10:13.330 --> 00:10:16.409
who can deal with it without having
a resort or without having to use alcohol
120
00:10:16.529 --> 00:10:22.279
other substances, but it's also not
a coincidence that the usage rate and the
121
00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:26.679
abuse rate is so high in our
profession. Yeah, and a lot of
122
00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:30.840
that just has to do with the
the nature of the of the of the
123
00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:35.389
profession, the nature of the job
itself, then also just the the social
124
00:10:35.549 --> 00:10:41.389
aspect of it, you know,
and that's especially when you were young like
125
00:10:41.590 --> 00:10:46.429
we were at the time. That's
just how we dealt with it and some
126
00:10:46.590 --> 00:10:50.500
of US grew thematured them, were
able to grow away from from, you
127
00:10:50.620 --> 00:10:54.899
know, over indulging, and then
other of us, you know, we
128
00:10:56.059 --> 00:10:58.419
spiraled, you know, down,
you know, down a dark rabbit hole
129
00:10:58.700 --> 00:11:07.450
of abuse, and you know,
it's I mean, some people get there,
130
00:11:07.570 --> 00:11:11.970
some people don't. Unfortunately for me, and luckily for me, I
131
00:11:13.169 --> 00:11:18.129
did get there, but I mean
that that that really takes me back to
132
00:11:18.169 --> 00:11:20.879
the days, you know, when
when we were out doing it and we
133
00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.000
were we were all out there.
You know, I was telling people,
134
00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:28.679
you know that I've been in the
rooms with that, I've been in treatment
135
00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:31.840
with as an attorney. You drink
for any reason in there be reason you
136
00:11:31.909 --> 00:11:35.470
come up with. You drink the
celebrate, you drink the commisserate, you
137
00:11:35.549 --> 00:11:39.750
drink when you win, you drink
when you lose. I mean any anything
138
00:11:39.789 --> 00:11:43.389
we come up with. You know, we found the excuse to get to
139
00:11:43.429 --> 00:11:46.110
the bar and pull some you know, pull some liquor down our throat.
140
00:11:48.980 --> 00:11:52.580
I did, anyway. I know
other people are more responsible than we are.
141
00:11:52.659 --> 00:11:58.220
I mean, I remember hearing the
phrase as a young lawyer. You
142
00:11:58.340 --> 00:12:03.009
know, when lose, you still
booze. Yeah, absolutely, you know
143
00:12:03.889 --> 00:12:07.090
and you know it. You know
you looking back, you know, but
144
00:12:07.129 --> 00:12:11.450
a decade and you know it sounded
funny at the time, but you know,
145
00:12:13.769 --> 00:12:22.320
you don't see how that could be
so detrimental, you know, years
146
00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:28.440
later. Yeah, I mean,
what did it starts or what it may
147
00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:33.750
sai as the tone, what's acceptable? Yeah, and the thing is it
148
00:12:33.830 --> 00:12:37.029
doesn't start that way. You know, when we started it was all it
149
00:12:37.190 --> 00:12:41.549
was all fun. I mean I
really was enjoying myself. We were young,
150
00:12:41.350 --> 00:12:45.659
you know, we were young,
young guys just out of law school.
151
00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:48.220
You know, for most of us
it was our first real job,
152
00:12:50.139 --> 00:12:52.700
even though, granted, we weren't
making a ton of money where we were
153
00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:56.100
at, but it was still,
you know, first real income we had
154
00:12:56.179 --> 00:13:00.009
coming in. So in the beginning
it didn't start that way. It started
155
00:13:00.049 --> 00:13:03.889
out as fun and the beginning it
was very celebratory in the beginning and it
156
00:13:03.169 --> 00:13:09.649
was very, you know, drink
to my accomplishments type of situation. When,
157
00:13:09.690 --> 00:13:16.960
when did that change a mindset for
me personally, I went through a
158
00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:22.000
lot of setbacks and a lot of
I had a lot of loss in my
159
00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:28.350
life and for me a lot of
it change when I went through a period
160
00:13:28.389 --> 00:13:33.110
of losing my mother, losing my
grandfather who's very close to me, who
161
00:13:33.149 --> 00:13:39.750
raised me, and then after that
I just had a whole probably four or
162
00:13:39.830 --> 00:13:45.019
five other relatives that were close to
me just all passed within a maybe five
163
00:13:45.100 --> 00:13:50.539
year window, and I don't I'm
not blaming it on them, I'm not
164
00:13:50.740 --> 00:13:54.500
saying that that's the reason that caused
me to a spiral to where I ended
165
00:13:54.580 --> 00:14:01.090
up, but I will say it
probably accelerated my drinking at that point and
166
00:14:01.649 --> 00:14:09.210
beyond that, I think even without
those those events happening, I think I
167
00:14:09.289 --> 00:14:11.360
still would end it up where I
did. Because, the end of the
168
00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:16.919
day, I'm an alcoholic and it
took me a long time to realize that
169
00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:22.159
and to accept and admit that.
But you know, there's some of us
170
00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:24.309
on this on this earth, that
we just can't drink like other people.
171
00:14:26.230 --> 00:14:28.789
And it took me, you know, Damn the over twenty years and realize
172
00:14:28.830 --> 00:14:33.149
that. So I was always headed
towards that destination. It was just a
173
00:14:33.230 --> 00:14:35.789
matter how long was it going to
take me to get there. But those
174
00:14:35.830 --> 00:14:39.940
are the things that got me there
faster was, you know, having trauma
175
00:14:41.059 --> 00:14:45.940
throughout my life as far as personal
losses, and then the occupation itself.
176
00:14:48.220 --> 00:14:52.139
You know, you do this over
and over and over and at some point,
177
00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:54.929
you know, you do start to
feel the weight of it all,
178
00:14:56.049 --> 00:15:01.490
especially at some point you start to
feel unappreciate it and you start to feel
179
00:15:01.529 --> 00:15:03.490
like you're helping the world, how
you're carrying the weight of the world for
180
00:15:03.690 --> 00:15:09.080
the world, and yet when you
turn around, there's no one there for
181
00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:13.279
you. And that's why, you
know, it was important for us to
182
00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:16.240
have you know, like you send
your intro. They have real friends like
183
00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:20.679
we are, people that we could
talk to now, if anything, you
184
00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:24.909
know, there's a lot of things
that accelerated my, you know, my
185
00:15:24.070 --> 00:15:30.389
downfall. But you know, but
y'all actually probably, if anything, y'all
186
00:15:30.429 --> 00:15:33.389
help me make it a little bit
longer than I probably should have. And
187
00:15:35.070 --> 00:15:37.139
you know, having good friends like
y'all, I mean, you know,
188
00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:39.980
who knows where I'd be? I'm
living to tell the story right now,
189
00:15:41.179 --> 00:15:43.700
but we don't. I don't know
if that be the case if I didn't
190
00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:46.539
have the right people around me.
Well, you know, for for those
191
00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:52.730
that listening, and I know you, you stated that you know, the
192
00:15:52.970 --> 00:16:00.250
losses that you experienced during that time
period played a part in that, that
193
00:16:00.450 --> 00:16:06.399
spiral, but it was what was
it that you gravitated you to help you
194
00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:10.200
pull yourself out of that? Because
we may have a lot of people that's
195
00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:15.200
listening, that's find themselves and may
not necessarily be a loss of loved ones,
196
00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:18.629
but it could be, you know, being let go from position.
197
00:16:18.710 --> 00:16:21.789
Well, and a lot of people
experience that over the last sixteen, eighteen
198
00:16:21.870 --> 00:16:26.909
months when things got shut down,
you know, a lot of you know,
199
00:16:26.629 --> 00:16:34.779
businesses closed up, saw a lot
of their you know, clientele shrink
200
00:16:36.299 --> 00:16:44.500
and went through the same, you
know, life altering experiences and you know
201
00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:47.889
they want to reach to something to
try to, you know, buoy them
202
00:16:48.009 --> 00:16:51.690
through that. And what was something
that you reach? You to boot yourself
203
00:16:51.730 --> 00:16:57.769
that was not a, you know, a can or about. Quite honestly,
204
00:16:57.850 --> 00:17:03.039
I had, I have, very
few things, but the few things
205
00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:08.880
that I did have that did keep
me at least relatively sober or at least
206
00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:15.160
help me run, help me somewhat
moderate my drinking was, you know,
207
00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:18.910
one thrust things. I mentioned this, you know, having good people around
208
00:17:18.950 --> 00:17:22.789
you, having true friends around you, having a family that supports you,
209
00:17:22.950 --> 00:17:26.109
in a family that you know,
unfortunately, I put them through a lot
210
00:17:26.150 --> 00:17:29.869
of things, but they would they
you know, they never gave up on
211
00:17:30.019 --> 00:17:36.420
me. The other thing is just
finding other productive things that that really sparking
212
00:17:36.579 --> 00:17:41.019
interest and that, you know,
that that you would appreciate just as much
213
00:17:42.420 --> 00:17:47.690
as drinking, and also it's therapeutic, is brinking. For me, that
214
00:17:47.890 --> 00:17:51.049
Love was something I found at a
late age, you know, about thirty
215
00:17:51.130 --> 00:17:55.329
seven, thirty eight years old,
I started training MMA and Mo tie and
216
00:17:55.650 --> 00:17:59.640
for me that was my outlet.
That was the one thing that I found
217
00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:03.720
that I really enjoyed and that I
really found a passion for. That I
218
00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:11.000
would rather be at the gym then
at the Bar, but even that that
219
00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:17.390
wasn't a strong enough pool to,
you know, to keep me, keep
220
00:18:17.430 --> 00:18:21.150
me straight and sober the whole time. So you know, there are things
221
00:18:21.190 --> 00:18:25.069
out there that can mitigate the circumstances
and help you deal with it. But
222
00:18:25.150 --> 00:18:32.740
at the end of the day,
you know, if if you're an alcoholic
223
00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:37.700
and you don't you don't realize it
or you don't admit it, eventually you're
224
00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:42.250
going to get to that point where
you're going to have to and you know,
225
00:18:42.410 --> 00:18:45.849
just to just to take a step
back again. And what you were
226
00:18:45.890 --> 00:18:52.490
saying earlier, there's things that contributed
to to speeding up the process, but
227
00:18:52.369 --> 00:18:57.400
really life in general takes you there
because it's it's not just the profession itself,
228
00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:00.480
but it's just, you know,
it's the grind of the world today.
229
00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:04.839
You know, we were young men
coming up together and you know,
230
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:11.990
when you do that, especially you
know it's young young men of color who
231
00:19:11.990 --> 00:19:17.150
might be the first in their family
to you know, to walk, you
232
00:19:17.230 --> 00:19:19.589
know, into a professional office and
be able to wear suit and work every
233
00:19:19.630 --> 00:19:25.420
day, you do a lot of
comparing yourself to your colleagues and so a
234
00:19:25.500 --> 00:19:29.460
lot of that brings pressure on you
and then you don't just compare yourself to
235
00:19:29.579 --> 00:19:32.460
them. Professionally, it's everything.
You know, you trying to keep up
236
00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:34.900
with the Joneses. So you know, you looking at your friends and your
237
00:19:34.940 --> 00:19:38.289
colleagues. What are they achieving?
Like? What what new job or they
238
00:19:38.369 --> 00:19:41.970
get? What position are they getting? Why am I not doing that?
239
00:19:41.170 --> 00:19:45.170
Why am I not as successful as
this person and that person? And then,
240
00:19:45.250 --> 00:19:48.089
on top of that you got the
social aspect. You got you know,
241
00:19:48.930 --> 00:19:52.319
everyone, you know, every one
of us, wants to at some
242
00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:56.599
point have some type of legacy,
settled down, have a family, and
243
00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:00.599
then we looking at each other wondering, you know, trying to you know
244
00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:03.359
see, you know, how come
I ain't settled down to this says,
245
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:07.950
how come I married, yet I
am at the right person. These are
246
00:20:07.990 --> 00:20:11.269
all things that contributed to my drinking
and these were all things that I had
247
00:20:11.309 --> 00:20:14.710
to I had to deal with and
I had to face and I think,
248
00:20:14.950 --> 00:20:18.950
you know, those are all real
issues that, you know, a lot
249
00:20:18.990 --> 00:20:23.259
of our listeners, younger old,
deal with, not necessarily be thinking within
250
00:20:23.579 --> 00:20:27.460
even the legal profession. I think
these are real issues that every day,
251
00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:33.099
you know, members of society,
you know half to deal with because we
252
00:20:33.380 --> 00:20:37.529
know and it's always it's easy to
say you shouldn't compare your your success to,
253
00:20:37.930 --> 00:20:42.809
you know, a being, a
see, you know whoever. But
254
00:20:44.130 --> 00:20:47.849
you know, it's kind of human
nation that that people do that. But
255
00:20:47.930 --> 00:20:52.359
I think what's important you said something
that you know you would found it,
256
00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:57.279
although it was later in years the
MMA and going to the gym, even
257
00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:07.309
though that wasn't fully you know,
stop the stop to sway, but I
258
00:21:07.430 --> 00:21:11.230
think that goes towards and you can
talk on it. The people that you
259
00:21:11.349 --> 00:21:15.750
met by doing that and going into
that put you in front of a different
260
00:21:15.789 --> 00:21:22.099
set of people that you could go
to at some point. Yeah, absolutely,
261
00:21:22.180 --> 00:21:25.779
I mean I had I was really
lucky. I joined a good gym
262
00:21:26.579 --> 00:21:30.099
and they was it was very good
people and then there's very good coaches in
263
00:21:30.180 --> 00:21:36.410
there. And shortly after joining the
gym I started having my first major health
264
00:21:36.490 --> 00:21:41.089
crisis. Is Related to my drinking. You know, about a year after
265
00:21:41.130 --> 00:21:45.609
I joined the gym, I was
hospitalized for the first time due to my
266
00:21:45.650 --> 00:21:49.000
drinking, and it was because I
had a I drank so much I basically
267
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:52.400
burned a hole in my stomach.
Wow, and I had an ulcer.
268
00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:57.680
I also started bleeding and you know, I spent about two weeks in the
269
00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:03.109
hospital and I spent I spend another
month with a with a you know,
270
00:22:03.230 --> 00:22:08.190
with a IV permanently in my arm. And you know, I was dealing
271
00:22:08.309 --> 00:22:11.750
with a lot of things back then. But I had just started training back
272
00:22:11.789 --> 00:22:15.299
then as well, and I had
a coach. He's you know, I
273
00:22:15.420 --> 00:22:18.579
think him every day and I think
I put them in my life every day.
274
00:22:19.339 --> 00:22:22.619
And, you know, he came
to me. He said, even
275
00:22:22.660 --> 00:22:26.259
if you can't train, he goes. Don't sit at home and and be
276
00:22:26.420 --> 00:22:30.329
lonely and allowing, you know,
in your in yourself pity or in your
277
00:22:30.369 --> 00:22:32.730
sorrow, whatever. He said,
just come to the gym. He goes
278
00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:34.890
and by this point he won't even
charge of me, not anymore. He
279
00:22:36.049 --> 00:22:40.009
was head already suspended my membership and
everything. So that, you know,
280
00:22:40.049 --> 00:22:41.730
because he knew I wasn't gonna be
able to physically train. But he said,
281
00:22:41.809 --> 00:22:45.599
just come here and just surround yourself
with, you know, with people
282
00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:51.000
who are doing other things and just
be around and, you know, and
283
00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:56.759
just basically get out of yourself.
And that helped me out a lot and
284
00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.630
that helped me to see other people
who are able to you know, you
285
00:23:00.710 --> 00:23:02.990
know a lot of these fighters.
You know they go through fight camps and
286
00:23:03.029 --> 00:23:06.029
stuff. They stopped drinking for weeks
at a time because they got to cut
287
00:23:06.109 --> 00:23:10.349
weight and they got to focus on
being their best mentally and physically, and
288
00:23:10.630 --> 00:23:14.339
seeing those people and seeing their discipline
and seeing their passion for what they do,
289
00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:18.299
you know, it made me want
that as well. I'm looking at
290
00:23:18.339 --> 00:23:21.500
them, I'm a you know,
I'm a grown man at this time,
291
00:23:21.700 --> 00:23:26.779
looking at them, these young kids
at want to pursue potentially a career in
292
00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:30.089
fighting whatever, and I'm looking at
them like look, they have the discipline
293
00:23:30.730 --> 00:23:33.569
to give it up to at least, you know, for a few weeks,
294
00:23:34.450 --> 00:23:38.650
just so they can meet at their
best. Like you know, I
295
00:23:40.049 --> 00:23:42.240
found that very admirable. So I
had to I looked at that and not
296
00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:47.920
try to apply it to myself,
and that probably did slow my, you
297
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:51.920
know, slow my drinking a little
bit, and it may have saved my
298
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:55.319
life, to be quite honest,
you know, to be completely honest with
299
00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:57.150
you, to save my life,
because if I kept drinking at the pace
300
00:23:57.230 --> 00:24:02.150
I was drinking, that hole in
my stomach probably would just kept getting bigger
301
00:24:02.150 --> 00:24:03.470
and bigger and I probably would have
led out at some point. And I
302
00:24:03.509 --> 00:24:07.190
don't know if we be having this
interview right now. But you know,
303
00:24:07.630 --> 00:24:14.779
just that that short reprieve, that
short pausing in the drinking and this,
304
00:24:14.980 --> 00:24:18.220
you know, focusing on my health
and being surrounded by people who were so
305
00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:22.140
into their health and into what their
passion was. They helped me a lot
306
00:24:22.259 --> 00:24:30.250
to, you know, to to
find something else occupy my mind, and
307
00:24:30.410 --> 00:24:33.569
not only that at but also to
put myself in a different environment because,
308
00:24:33.690 --> 00:24:37.680
you know, like we just talked
about earlier, like the work environment is
309
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:41.200
just fieled by alcohol, and the
legal profession is fueled by alcohol. Not
310
00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:45.799
just a legal profession. I'm not
trying to talk down about lawyers and say
311
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:48.759
we're all alcoholics. That's not the
case at all. No, I mean,
312
00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:52.509
you know, laying back to that
same article, I mean it was
313
00:24:52.750 --> 00:25:00.630
decided restaurant hospitality had raised, doctors
and healthcare, the arts and entertainment,
314
00:25:02.910 --> 00:25:07.980
construction, those in sales and then
those in, you know, the first
315
00:25:08.019 --> 00:25:12.619
responders, military, police, firefighters, you know, and that's a good
316
00:25:12.660 --> 00:25:17.259
segment of the population, of breaking
out of those professions and we, I
317
00:25:17.380 --> 00:25:21.690
guess, you know, conversations going
to focus on the legal pression. That's
318
00:25:21.690 --> 00:25:30.170
what we know. But but fin
you know, definitely not just limited to
319
00:25:30.609 --> 00:25:37.440
to that, but I want to
I tell you the interesting thing about that
320
00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:42.200
list. So if you really look
down that list, most of them the
321
00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:48.119
professions on there are professions that involve
helping others. Yep. So all the
322
00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:52.589
professions on there, whether it be
first responders, whether it be medical,
323
00:25:53.029 --> 00:25:56.309
whether they be us in the legal
field, it's a lot of these professions
324
00:25:56.349 --> 00:26:00.269
where we have to give ourselves to
others, and that's what our job is,
325
00:26:00.470 --> 00:26:04.660
is to give ourselves in some way
to others. And you know,
326
00:26:04.819 --> 00:26:11.779
and I think that goes back to
just just the general we give so much
327
00:26:11.819 --> 00:26:15.460
of ourselves and then we forget that
we needed, we need to take time
328
00:26:15.579 --> 00:26:21.089
for ourselves to we need to give
to ourselves as well. Yep. And
329
00:26:21.170 --> 00:26:30.569
I think you know the recognition of
that and you know it has to come
330
00:26:30.650 --> 00:26:33.079
a point where you get the understanding
is that you know it. You know
331
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.960
neither make the decision to turn things
around up for you. You know.
332
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:42.119
You know. Was it the hospitalization
or was it a moment where you you
333
00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:45.400
know, was the tough moment that
you had answer, that you had answer
334
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:49.910
the question that you know was probably
in the back of the man that you
335
00:26:49.950 --> 00:26:53.750
knew, but you know was dodging. I'm going to tell you I have
336
00:26:53.950 --> 00:27:00.630
my common to God moment. And
you know, basically, you know,
337
00:27:00.990 --> 00:27:06.660
I had the first incident where I
was hospitalized with an also and you know,
338
00:27:06.740 --> 00:27:08.299
for a normal person, that be
enough to scare you, that be
339
00:27:08.420 --> 00:27:12.940
enough to teach you the lesson that
you probably shouldn't drink anymore. And I
340
00:27:14.140 --> 00:27:15.930
thought that, you know, that
it would do that for me too,
341
00:27:17.089 --> 00:27:19.450
but not. Instead I try to
take the other option, the other route
342
00:27:19.529 --> 00:27:22.970
that many alcoholics do, and I
said, well, maybe I won't stop
343
00:27:23.250 --> 00:27:26.250
thinking, I just try to moderate
my drinking. So I tried to do
344
00:27:26.369 --> 00:27:30.079
that and then I mess that up
as well too, because then I ended
345
00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:33.880
up back in the hospital three more
times. And this is all happening in
346
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:37.519
the period of, you know,
of about two or three years, and
347
00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:40.720
you remember this because you you were
there from for a lot of it.
348
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:45.309
And then the final time I finally
ended up in the hospital. It was
349
00:27:45.349 --> 00:27:48.309
a culmination of a lot of things. It was, you know, I
350
00:27:48.470 --> 00:27:53.109
was coming to a point in my
life and my career while I was debating
351
00:27:53.309 --> 00:27:59.099
and questioning whether or not I still
wanted to continue practicing law. We were
352
00:27:59.140 --> 00:28:00.740
in the midst of the pandemic at
the time. So a lot of my
353
00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:06.539
business was drying up and a lot
of my cases weren't going anywhere. They
354
00:28:06.539 --> 00:28:10.940
were selling this because the courts weren't
really moving either at the time. And
355
00:28:11.099 --> 00:28:15.210
so I got to a point where
really I was just I was coming to
356
00:28:15.289 --> 00:28:18.970
the point where I was losing and
everything financially. I was not doing well
357
00:28:21.289 --> 00:28:23.769
emotionally, mentally, spiritually, it
was all coming to a head. And
358
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:30.359
you know, I've been through it, like I said Multiple Times before,
359
00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:34.680
with with this issue, with my
stomach. And then, you know,
360
00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:44.670
Valentine's Day of this year, I
realize that I was probably having another episode,
361
00:28:44.750 --> 00:28:49.509
I was probably bleeding again. So, you know, I was so
362
00:28:49.990 --> 00:28:53.190
out of it, I was sold
out and out this time that I didn't
363
00:28:53.190 --> 00:28:56.700
even really tell anybody. I didn't
even tell you, and you know you
364
00:28:56.779 --> 00:28:57.940
won't you, one of my best
friends, and I even tell you what.
365
00:28:59.019 --> 00:29:03.500
I ended up in the hospital up
in northside hospital up in Atlanta just,
366
00:29:03.859 --> 00:29:10.369
you know, just bleeding, and
you know this is during Coldvid,
367
00:29:10.450 --> 00:29:14.529
so nobody could come visit me even
if they wanted to. And while I
368
00:29:14.650 --> 00:29:18.329
was in that hospital, you know, I realize I might die in here
369
00:29:18.329 --> 00:29:22.490
alone because I'm sitting here and I'm
in pretty bad shape and no one's even
370
00:29:22.529 --> 00:29:26.119
allowed to come visit me. And
not only that, but I'm so ashamed
371
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:30.839
of letting myself get back in this
same position that I haven't even told anybody
372
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:34.960
that I'm in here. And you
know, we'll pick I want to pick
373
00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:40.670
this up on the other side of
the break and a bonus chep peace on
374
00:29:40.789 --> 00:29:45.430
this. But once we got to
that point where you know we are in
375
00:29:45.509 --> 00:29:49.869
there February this year, and you
realize it now, it is time that
376
00:29:51.029 --> 00:29:53.779
you know you want to, you
know, got a set an action plan
377
00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:57.059
moving forward and look at these lessons. And on the other side of this
378
00:29:57.259 --> 00:30:02.660
break, I want you to tell
our listeners, those that you know have
379
00:30:02.900 --> 00:30:07.569
had similar experiences, are found myself
close to that, what's an action plan
380
00:30:07.690 --> 00:30:11.170
or what some steps that they can
take and what's lessons that they can apply
381
00:30:11.730 --> 00:30:15.089
to kind of pull themself and get
to your position that you out so we'll
382
00:30:15.130 --> 00:30:15.890
pick us up after the break.
1
00:00:11.070 --> 00:00:15.109
If you haven't heard about anchor,
it's the easiest way to make a podcast.
2
00:00:15.710 --> 00:00:20.469
Let me explain. It's free.
There are creation tools that allow you
3
00:00:20.550 --> 00:00:23.820
to record and edit your podcast or
right from your phone. On computer,
4
00:00:24.699 --> 00:00:28.219
Anchor will distupid your podcast for you
so it can be heard on spotify,
5
00:00:28.739 --> 00:00:33.219
apple podcasts and many more. You
can make money from your podcast with a
6
00:00:33.259 --> 00:00:37.689
no minimum listenership. It's everything you
need to make a podcast in one place.
7
00:00:38.689 --> 00:00:42.490
Download the free anchor APP or go
to Anchor Dot FM to get started.
8
00:00:44.729 --> 00:00:47.490
Welcome back to the SAUMA. We
take every issue one long at a
9
00:00:47.570 --> 00:00:53.240
time. I'm Bryce Akins and had
a very special guest, you know,
10
00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:57.240
with me to today. And it's
a lot of times where you can you
11
00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:03.399
bring in people or you refer to
people as a friend, you know,
12
00:01:04.150 --> 00:01:12.230
a buddy, acquaintance, whatever it
may be, coworker, but if you
13
00:01:12.310 --> 00:01:21.260
don't have, you know, a
real, true relationship behind that's really not
14
00:01:21.500 --> 00:01:27.219
more than just, you know,
a kind introduction. But you know,
15
00:01:29.659 --> 00:01:33.810
the guest has joined us today in
the Sawmill is someone I can sider,
16
00:01:34.090 --> 00:01:41.010
you know, a true friend,
a true brother. You know, I
17
00:01:41.409 --> 00:01:47.519
can't remember how many times I called
on his assistance. You know for answer
18
00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:52.640
a question, you need a ride
if my bad of a car battery broke
19
00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:57.319
down, just someone that you can
rely on in the clutch. So it's
20
00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.870
my friend that we all affectionately know. It's Joe P and I just want
21
00:02:00.909 --> 00:02:07.750
to introduce Joe to audience. How
you doing, Joe? Doing good,
22
00:02:07.829 --> 00:02:13.870
glad to be here. And so
just a little backstory and how I know
23
00:02:14.030 --> 00:02:20.060
Joe. This was years ago,
many moons ago over, almost fifteen years
24
00:02:20.060 --> 00:02:25.340
ago, and I was interviewing for
internship. I was an intern. She
25
00:02:25.539 --> 00:02:31.009
was like first job and I believe
I was going in when you were coming
26
00:02:31.090 --> 00:02:36.090
out, or vice versa. We
have both finished somehow the same time.
27
00:02:36.849 --> 00:02:40.409
Yeah, I was interviewing for the
actual job at the time. So I
28
00:02:40.569 --> 00:02:46.319
was there visiting the office as a
as an applicant, and I think you
29
00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:50.439
were there doing your internship at the
time. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly
30
00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:55.879
right. I was finishing up my
last year a law school and so we
31
00:02:57.080 --> 00:03:00.990
was in the same office and men
at that same time. And then,
32
00:03:00.389 --> 00:03:06.310
you know, fast forward when out, you know, I guess the year
33
00:03:06.349 --> 00:03:12.509
later when I ended up vilely working
and then Joe was one of the first
34
00:03:12.789 --> 00:03:17.620
faces I recognize within the office and
so you know, it's been ever since
35
00:03:17.659 --> 00:03:24.620
then it's been a a strong bond, strong friendship, and that's when I
36
00:03:24.659 --> 00:03:32.490
appreciate. But you know, we
brought in, we had guests came on
37
00:03:32.569 --> 00:03:36.849
the saw mill and talk about their
profession and, you know, droving down
38
00:03:36.889 --> 00:03:39.610
in this profession and minute. But
this is one with one to talk about.
39
00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:46.000
You know how it was being a
new lawyer and you know, you
40
00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:53.159
know tackling the legal field, but
a tough subject that a lot of people
41
00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:58.990
want to shy away from, and
that's the issue of recovery. And you
42
00:03:59.069 --> 00:04:01.349
know, I just want to ask
Joe. It's like, how is that
43
00:04:01.469 --> 00:04:10.620
journey being for you and what started
that that journey? I mean, you
44
00:04:10.740 --> 00:04:13.699
know, before you can get to
the point of recovery, you got to
45
00:04:13.740 --> 00:04:17.300
get to basically you got to hit
the bottom and you got to get to
46
00:04:17.339 --> 00:04:23.180
the point of surrender. So when
we talking about recovery, you know audience
47
00:04:23.220 --> 00:04:26.569
out there might be wondering what do
we mean by recovery? Well, I
48
00:04:26.649 --> 00:04:30.250
mean you know it's one of those
things that's uncomfortable to talk about in polite
49
00:04:30.329 --> 00:04:36.089
society today and that it has carry
some of a stigma. But you know,
50
00:04:36.209 --> 00:04:41.879
everyone knows someone who's dealing with it. were talking about substance and alcohol
51
00:04:41.879 --> 00:04:46.600
abuse. So you know, it's
funny that our introduction should, you know,
52
00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:50.120
should go back fifteen years, so
when we started in the same office
53
00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:55.709
together. You know, because that's
a big, big part of my story
54
00:04:55.829 --> 00:05:00.269
too, is a starting together.
That office is too young attorneys and you
55
00:05:00.709 --> 00:05:04.670
know, just yesterday, let you
guys know, right now I am coming
56
00:05:04.709 --> 00:05:13.139
up on about five days from being
six months ober. That's awesome. Six
57
00:05:13.220 --> 00:05:16.980
months ober from alcohol and I actually
I'm not going to say sober. I'll
58
00:05:17.019 --> 00:05:20.689
say it's been almost six months since
I've had a drink, but I'm still
59
00:05:20.810 --> 00:05:25.730
working on my sobriety right now.
That's the better way to put it.
60
00:05:26.410 --> 00:05:29.089
But yeah, I mean the story
goes back at you know, as far
61
00:05:29.170 --> 00:05:33.250
as you know. But I have
my first drink really and then, you
62
00:05:33.370 --> 00:05:40.279
know, I was the I was
a typical college drinker. It more was
63
00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:45.959
social drinker. I was a weekend
drinker and then, like like a lot
64
00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.790
of young people my age, I
was primarily a binge drinker. So,
65
00:05:49.949 --> 00:05:54.629
you know, I went to,
you know, a big sec school and
66
00:05:55.550 --> 00:06:00.509
you know, tailgating on Saturdays was
always a big deal. So I came
67
00:06:00.550 --> 00:06:03.579
up in that culture. We spend
a lot of time drinking really heavily on
68
00:06:03.699 --> 00:06:08.899
the weekends and then, you know, studying really hard on the week days,
69
00:06:08.939 --> 00:06:11.420
and they just kind of carried over
in the law school and then,
70
00:06:13.060 --> 00:06:16.100
you know, when you and I
started together. I mean it, you
71
00:06:16.180 --> 00:06:19.970
know, obviously we se had a
lot of good times together. A lot
72
00:06:20.009 --> 00:06:24.250
of those good times did involved alcohol. That's true, you know. I
73
00:06:24.850 --> 00:06:30.889
mean, you know, I remember, you know, sporting events or if
74
00:06:30.930 --> 00:06:39.680
it was even social events with,
you know, other attorneys that you know,
75
00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:46.240
found myself downtown, you know,
for one thing, and then night
76
00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:51.589
just goes on and on and on. You know. But what do you
77
00:06:51.709 --> 00:06:57.550
say in you know, and there's
interest about that because it's a lot of
78
00:06:57.870 --> 00:07:00.310
and were talking about this before we
started on that. It was a recent
79
00:07:00.389 --> 00:07:08.779
study, but the by the ABA
that found that one in five lawyers are
80
00:07:08.899 --> 00:07:13.500
problem drinkers, and that's double the
rate of other professional to have a similar
81
00:07:13.540 --> 00:07:19.009
level of education, and it's usually
younger. Lawyers have been practicing less than
82
00:07:19.050 --> 00:07:26.449
ten years. Ten the show the
highest rates of substance abuse and mental problems.
83
00:07:26.730 --> 00:07:31.560
And you know, was it,
you know, this particular partite to
84
00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:41.079
you know, coping mechanisms, to
commenty with expectations or the growing demand of
85
00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:46.470
the profession itself. But did you
think it was just a sense of dealing
86
00:07:46.470 --> 00:07:53.029
with the job? But was it
want so of a way to just to
87
00:07:53.110 --> 00:08:00.300
fit in with, you know,
other colleagues and to then that way all
88
00:08:00.339 --> 00:08:03.420
I think it was a combination of
all of that and, you know,
89
00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:05.300
quite honestly, I think you probably
going to agree with me on this one.
90
00:08:05.379 --> 00:08:11.779
But you know, one out of
five is probably a conservative estimate because,
91
00:08:11.379 --> 00:08:15.250
let's be honest, in the legal
field and then the legal professing,
92
00:08:15.930 --> 00:08:22.889
alcohol is the social lubricant, is
the professional lubricant, it is the you
93
00:08:22.009 --> 00:08:26.360
know, it's the networking tool of
choice. I mean there's nothing you don't
94
00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:31.320
do really in the legal profession that
don't involve alcohol at some point in another,
95
00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:35.039
and I think it's just ingrained in
the profession. Now, what's the
96
00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:39.320
reason for that? Is this planning
of them? I mean yeah, this
97
00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:43.830
there's the actual job itself to very
demanding job and you spend most of your
98
00:08:43.950 --> 00:08:48.549
trying trying to help out other people
and try to solve other people's problems.
99
00:08:48.029 --> 00:08:52.269
But at the end of the day, you know, you come in and
100
00:08:52.350 --> 00:08:56.700
you spend, you know, eight
to twelve hours in the office listening to
101
00:08:56.779 --> 00:09:00.580
other people's problems and, you know, quote unquote, counseling and advising other
102
00:09:00.700 --> 00:09:05.340
people, and you leave that office
and then who do you take your problems
103
00:09:05.379 --> 00:09:07.659
to? Who Do you take that
too? I mean, fortunately for me
104
00:09:07.779 --> 00:09:11.169
and you, you know, we
had each other, we had other other
105
00:09:11.289 --> 00:09:15.649
young colleagues. I was in office
with us. But how do we deal
106
00:09:15.769 --> 00:09:20.090
with it? You know, and
that's that's basically you and I remember we
107
00:09:20.250 --> 00:09:22.850
dealt with it by leaving the office, loosening our ties, walking down the
108
00:09:22.929 --> 00:09:30.159
sweet and going to happy our hitting
the bar, you know, whatever it
109
00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:33.600
was. But Ninety nine or not
ninety nine, but in a good,
110
00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:37.879
a good part of that time that
we spent dealing with our stresses from work,
111
00:09:37.990 --> 00:09:43.149
we usually resorted to alcohol. Now, does that mean that we're all
112
00:09:43.190 --> 00:09:46.190
alcoholics because we had to do that? Now, it doesn't. I mean
113
00:09:46.950 --> 00:09:50.710
some people are social drinkers, some
people responsible drinkers, and then there's people
114
00:09:50.789 --> 00:09:54.620
like myself, well, alcoholics,
and then you know, and you know,
115
00:09:54.740 --> 00:10:00.539
even during that time, I remember
it was a good push of people
116
00:10:00.539 --> 00:10:03.820
that came out that they didn't have
a drink at all. Yeah, absolutely,
117
00:10:05.059 --> 00:10:07.490
and you know, that just goes
to show that, you know,
118
00:10:09.330 --> 00:10:13.049
it may not be the profession itself, because there are people in the profession
119
00:10:13.330 --> 00:10:16.409
who can deal with it without having
a resort or without having to use alcohol
120
00:10:16.529 --> 00:10:22.279
other substances, but it's also not
a coincidence that the usage rate and the
121
00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:26.679
abuse rate is so high in our
profession. Yeah, and a lot of
122
00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:30.840
that just has to do with the
the nature of the of the of the
123
00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:35.389
profession, the nature of the job
itself, then also just the the social
124
00:10:35.549 --> 00:10:41.389
aspect of it, you know,
and that's especially when you were young like
125
00:10:41.590 --> 00:10:46.429
we were at the time. That's
just how we dealt with it and some
126
00:10:46.590 --> 00:10:50.500
of US grew thematured them, were
able to grow away from from, you
127
00:10:50.620 --> 00:10:54.899
know, over indulging, and then
other of us, you know, we
128
00:10:56.059 --> 00:10:58.419
spiraled, you know, down,
you know, down a dark rabbit hole
129
00:10:58.700 --> 00:11:07.450
of abuse, and you know,
it's I mean, some people get there,
130
00:11:07.570 --> 00:11:11.970
some people don't. Unfortunately for me, and luckily for me, I
131
00:11:13.169 --> 00:11:18.129
did get there, but I mean
that that that really takes me back to
132
00:11:18.169 --> 00:11:20.879
the days, you know, when
when we were out doing it and we
133
00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.000
were we were all out there.
You know, I was telling people,
134
00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:28.679
you know that I've been in the
rooms with that, I've been in treatment
135
00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:31.840
with as an attorney. You drink
for any reason in there be reason you
136
00:11:31.909 --> 00:11:35.470
come up with. You drink the
celebrate, you drink the commisserate, you
137
00:11:35.549 --> 00:11:39.750
drink when you win, you drink
when you lose. I mean any anything
138
00:11:39.789 --> 00:11:43.389
we come up with. You know, we found the excuse to get to
139
00:11:43.429 --> 00:11:46.110
the bar and pull some you know, pull some liquor down our throat.
140
00:11:48.980 --> 00:11:52.580
I did, anyway. I know
other people are more responsible than we are.
141
00:11:52.659 --> 00:11:58.220
I mean, I remember hearing the
phrase as a young lawyer. You
142
00:11:58.340 --> 00:12:03.009
know, when lose, you still
booze. Yeah, absolutely, you know
143
00:12:03.889 --> 00:12:07.090
and you know it. You know
you looking back, you know, but
144
00:12:07.129 --> 00:12:11.450
a decade and you know it sounded
funny at the time, but you know,
145
00:12:13.769 --> 00:12:22.320
you don't see how that could be
so detrimental, you know, years
146
00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:28.440
later. Yeah, I mean,
what did it starts or what it may
147
00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:33.750
sai as the tone, what's acceptable? Yeah, and the thing is it
148
00:12:33.830 --> 00:12:37.029
doesn't start that way. You know, when we started it was all it
149
00:12:37.190 --> 00:12:41.549
was all fun. I mean I
really was enjoying myself. We were young,
150
00:12:41.350 --> 00:12:45.659
you know, we were young,
young guys just out of law school.
151
00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:48.220
You know, for most of us
it was our first real job,
152
00:12:50.139 --> 00:12:52.700
even though, granted, we weren't
making a ton of money where we were
153
00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:56.100
at, but it was still,
you know, first real income we had
154
00:12:56.179 --> 00:13:00.009
coming in. So in the beginning
it didn't start that way. It started
155
00:13:00.049 --> 00:13:03.889
out as fun and the beginning it
was very celebratory in the beginning and it
156
00:13:03.169 --> 00:13:09.649
was very, you know, drink
to my accomplishments type of situation. When,
157
00:13:09.690 --> 00:13:16.960
when did that change a mindset for
me personally, I went through a
158
00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:22.000
lot of setbacks and a lot of
I had a lot of loss in my
159
00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:28.350
life and for me a lot of
it change when I went through a period
160
00:13:28.389 --> 00:13:33.110
of losing my mother, losing my
grandfather who's very close to me, who
161
00:13:33.149 --> 00:13:39.750
raised me, and then after that
I just had a whole probably four or
162
00:13:39.830 --> 00:13:45.019
five other relatives that were close to
me just all passed within a maybe five
163
00:13:45.100 --> 00:13:50.539
year window, and I don't I'm
not blaming it on them, I'm not
164
00:13:50.740 --> 00:13:54.500
saying that that's the reason that caused
me to a spiral to where I ended
165
00:13:54.580 --> 00:14:01.090
up, but I will say it
probably accelerated my drinking at that point and
166
00:14:01.649 --> 00:14:09.210
beyond that, I think even without
those those events happening, I think I
167
00:14:09.289 --> 00:14:11.360
still would end it up where I
did. Because, the end of the
168
00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:16.919
day, I'm an alcoholic and it
took me a long time to realize that
169
00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:22.159
and to accept and admit that.
But you know, there's some of us
170
00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:24.309
on this on this earth, that
we just can't drink like other people.
171
00:14:26.230 --> 00:14:28.789
And it took me, you know, Damn the over twenty years and realize
172
00:14:28.830 --> 00:14:33.149
that. So I was always headed
towards that destination. It was just a
173
00:14:33.230 --> 00:14:35.789
matter how long was it going to
take me to get there. But those
174
00:14:35.830 --> 00:14:39.940
are the things that got me there
faster was, you know, having trauma
175
00:14:41.059 --> 00:14:45.940
throughout my life as far as personal
losses, and then the occupation itself.
176
00:14:48.220 --> 00:14:52.139
You know, you do this over
and over and over and at some point,
177
00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:54.929
you know, you do start to
feel the weight of it all,
178
00:14:56.049 --> 00:15:01.490
especially at some point you start to
feel unappreciate it and you start to feel
179
00:15:01.529 --> 00:15:03.490
like you're helping the world, how
you're carrying the weight of the world for
180
00:15:03.690 --> 00:15:09.080
the world, and yet when you
turn around, there's no one there for
181
00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:13.279
you. And that's why, you
know, it was important for us to
182
00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:16.240
have you know, like you send
your intro. They have real friends like
183
00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:20.679
we are, people that we could
talk to now, if anything, you
184
00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:24.909
know, there's a lot of things
that accelerated my, you know, my
185
00:15:24.070 --> 00:15:30.389
downfall. But you know, but
y'all actually probably, if anything, y'all
186
00:15:30.429 --> 00:15:33.389
help me make it a little bit
longer than I probably should have. And
187
00:15:35.070 --> 00:15:37.139
you know, having good friends like
y'all, I mean, you know,
188
00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:39.980
who knows where I'd be? I'm
living to tell the story right now,
189
00:15:41.179 --> 00:15:43.700
but we don't. I don't know
if that be the case if I didn't
190
00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:46.539
have the right people around me.
Well, you know, for for those
191
00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:52.730
that listening, and I know you, you stated that you know, the
192
00:15:52.970 --> 00:16:00.250
losses that you experienced during that time
period played a part in that, that
193
00:16:00.450 --> 00:16:06.399
spiral, but it was what was
it that you gravitated you to help you
194
00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:10.200
pull yourself out of that? Because
we may have a lot of people that's
195
00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:15.200
listening, that's find themselves and may
not necessarily be a loss of loved ones,
196
00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:18.629
but it could be, you know, being let go from position.
197
00:16:18.710 --> 00:16:21.789
Well, and a lot of people
experience that over the last sixteen, eighteen
198
00:16:21.870 --> 00:16:26.909
months when things got shut down,
you know, a lot of you know,
199
00:16:26.629 --> 00:16:34.779
businesses closed up, saw a lot
of their you know, clientele shrink
200
00:16:36.299 --> 00:16:44.500
and went through the same, you
know, life altering experiences and you know
201
00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:47.889
they want to reach to something to
try to, you know, buoy them
202
00:16:48.009 --> 00:16:51.690
through that. And what was something
that you reach? You to boot yourself
203
00:16:51.730 --> 00:16:57.769
that was not a, you know, a can or about. Quite honestly,
204
00:16:57.850 --> 00:17:03.039
I had, I have, very
few things, but the few things
205
00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:08.880
that I did have that did keep
me at least relatively sober or at least
206
00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:15.160
help me run, help me somewhat
moderate my drinking was, you know,
207
00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:18.910
one thrust things. I mentioned this, you know, having good people around
208
00:17:18.950 --> 00:17:22.789
you, having true friends around you, having a family that supports you,
209
00:17:22.950 --> 00:17:26.109
in a family that you know,
unfortunately, I put them through a lot
210
00:17:26.150 --> 00:17:29.869
of things, but they would they
you know, they never gave up on
211
00:17:30.019 --> 00:17:36.420
me. The other thing is just
finding other productive things that that really sparking
212
00:17:36.579 --> 00:17:41.019
interest and that, you know,
that that you would appreciate just as much
213
00:17:42.420 --> 00:17:47.690
as drinking, and also it's therapeutic, is brinking. For me, that
214
00:17:47.890 --> 00:17:51.049
Love was something I found at a
late age, you know, about thirty
215
00:17:51.130 --> 00:17:55.329
seven, thirty eight years old,
I started training MMA and Mo tie and
216
00:17:55.650 --> 00:17:59.640
for me that was my outlet.
That was the one thing that I found
217
00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:03.720
that I really enjoyed and that I
really found a passion for. That I
218
00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:11.000
would rather be at the gym then
at the Bar, but even that that
219
00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:17.390
wasn't a strong enough pool to,
you know, to keep me, keep
220
00:18:17.430 --> 00:18:21.150
me straight and sober the whole time. So you know, there are things
221
00:18:21.190 --> 00:18:25.069
out there that can mitigate the circumstances
and help you deal with it. But
222
00:18:25.150 --> 00:18:32.740
at the end of the day,
you know, if if you're an alcoholic
223
00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:37.700
and you don't you don't realize it
or you don't admit it, eventually you're
224
00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:42.250
going to get to that point where
you're going to have to and you know,
225
00:18:42.410 --> 00:18:45.849
just to just to take a step
back again. And what you were
226
00:18:45.890 --> 00:18:52.490
saying earlier, there's things that contributed
to to speeding up the process, but
227
00:18:52.369 --> 00:18:57.400
really life in general takes you there
because it's it's not just the profession itself,
228
00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:00.480
but it's just, you know,
it's the grind of the world today.
229
00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:04.839
You know, we were young men
coming up together and you know,
230
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:11.990
when you do that, especially you
know it's young young men of color who
231
00:19:11.990 --> 00:19:17.150
might be the first in their family
to you know, to walk, you
232
00:19:17.230 --> 00:19:19.589
know, into a professional office and
be able to wear suit and work every
233
00:19:19.630 --> 00:19:25.420
day, you do a lot of
comparing yourself to your colleagues and so a
234
00:19:25.500 --> 00:19:29.460
lot of that brings pressure on you
and then you don't just compare yourself to
235
00:19:29.579 --> 00:19:32.460
them. Professionally, it's everything.
You know, you trying to keep up
236
00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:34.900
with the Joneses. So you know, you looking at your friends and your
237
00:19:34.940 --> 00:19:38.289
colleagues. What are they achieving?
Like? What what new job or they
238
00:19:38.369 --> 00:19:41.970
get? What position are they getting? Why am I not doing that?
239
00:19:41.170 --> 00:19:45.170
Why am I not as successful as
this person and that person? And then,
240
00:19:45.250 --> 00:19:48.089
on top of that you got the
social aspect. You got you know,
241
00:19:48.930 --> 00:19:52.319
everyone, you know, every one
of us, wants to at some
242
00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:56.599
point have some type of legacy,
settled down, have a family, and
243
00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:00.599
then we looking at each other wondering, you know, trying to you know
244
00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:03.359
see, you know, how come
I ain't settled down to this says,
245
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:07.950
how come I married, yet I
am at the right person. These are
246
00:20:07.990 --> 00:20:11.269
all things that contributed to my drinking
and these were all things that I had
247
00:20:11.309 --> 00:20:14.710
to I had to deal with and
I had to face and I think,
248
00:20:14.950 --> 00:20:18.950
you know, those are all real
issues that, you know, a lot
249
00:20:18.990 --> 00:20:23.259
of our listeners, younger old,
deal with, not necessarily be thinking within
250
00:20:23.579 --> 00:20:27.460
even the legal profession. I think
these are real issues that every day,
251
00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:33.099
you know, members of society,
you know half to deal with because we
252
00:20:33.380 --> 00:20:37.529
know and it's always it's easy to
say you shouldn't compare your your success to,
253
00:20:37.930 --> 00:20:42.809
you know, a being, a
see, you know whoever. But
254
00:20:44.130 --> 00:20:47.849
you know, it's kind of human
nation that that people do that. But
255
00:20:47.930 --> 00:20:52.359
I think what's important you said something
that you know you would found it,
256
00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:57.279
although it was later in years the
MMA and going to the gym, even
257
00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:07.309
though that wasn't fully you know,
stop the stop to sway, but I
258
00:21:07.430 --> 00:21:11.230
think that goes towards and you can
talk on it. The people that you
259
00:21:11.349 --> 00:21:15.750
met by doing that and going into
that put you in front of a different
260
00:21:15.789 --> 00:21:22.099
set of people that you could go
to at some point. Yeah, absolutely,
261
00:21:22.180 --> 00:21:25.779
I mean I had I was really
lucky. I joined a good gym
262
00:21:26.579 --> 00:21:30.099
and they was it was very good
people and then there's very good coaches in
263
00:21:30.180 --> 00:21:36.410
there. And shortly after joining the
gym I started having my first major health
264
00:21:36.490 --> 00:21:41.089
crisis. Is Related to my drinking. You know, about a year after
265
00:21:41.130 --> 00:21:45.609
I joined the gym, I was
hospitalized for the first time due to my
266
00:21:45.650 --> 00:21:49.000
drinking, and it was because I
had a I drank so much I basically
267
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:52.400
burned a hole in my stomach.
Wow, and I had an ulcer.
268
00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:57.680
I also started bleeding and you know, I spent about two weeks in the
269
00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:03.109
hospital and I spent I spend another
month with a with a you know,
270
00:22:03.230 --> 00:22:08.190
with a IV permanently in my arm. And you know, I was dealing
271
00:22:08.309 --> 00:22:11.750
with a lot of things back then. But I had just started training back
272
00:22:11.789 --> 00:22:15.299
then as well, and I had
a coach. He's you know, I
273
00:22:15.420 --> 00:22:18.579
think him every day and I think
I put them in my life every day.
274
00:22:19.339 --> 00:22:22.619
And, you know, he came
to me. He said, even
275
00:22:22.660 --> 00:22:26.259
if you can't train, he goes. Don't sit at home and and be
276
00:22:26.420 --> 00:22:30.329
lonely and allowing, you know,
in your in yourself pity or in your
277
00:22:30.369 --> 00:22:32.730
sorrow, whatever. He said,
just come to the gym. He goes
278
00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:34.890
and by this point he won't even
charge of me, not anymore. He
279
00:22:36.049 --> 00:22:40.009
was head already suspended my membership and
everything. So that, you know,
280
00:22:40.049 --> 00:22:41.730
because he knew I wasn't gonna be
able to physically train. But he said,
281
00:22:41.809 --> 00:22:45.599
just come here and just surround yourself
with, you know, with people
282
00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:51.000
who are doing other things and just
be around and, you know, and
283
00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:56.759
just basically get out of yourself.
And that helped me out a lot and
284
00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.630
that helped me to see other people
who are able to you know, you
285
00:23:00.710 --> 00:23:02.990
know a lot of these fighters.
You know they go through fight camps and
286
00:23:03.029 --> 00:23:06.029
stuff. They stopped drinking for weeks
at a time because they got to cut
287
00:23:06.109 --> 00:23:10.349
weight and they got to focus on
being their best mentally and physically, and
288
00:23:10.630 --> 00:23:14.339
seeing those people and seeing their discipline
and seeing their passion for what they do,
289
00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:18.299
you know, it made me want
that as well. I'm looking at
290
00:23:18.339 --> 00:23:21.500
them, I'm a you know,
I'm a grown man at this time,
291
00:23:21.700 --> 00:23:26.779
looking at them, these young kids
at want to pursue potentially a career in
292
00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:30.089
fighting whatever, and I'm looking at
them like look, they have the discipline
293
00:23:30.730 --> 00:23:33.569
to give it up to at least, you know, for a few weeks,
294
00:23:34.450 --> 00:23:38.650
just so they can meet at their
best. Like you know, I
295
00:23:40.049 --> 00:23:42.240
found that very admirable. So I
had to I looked at that and not
296
00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:47.920
try to apply it to myself,
and that probably did slow my, you
297
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:51.920
know, slow my drinking a little
bit, and it may have saved my
298
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:55.319
life, to be quite honest,
you know, to be completely honest with
299
00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:57.150
you, to save my life,
because if I kept drinking at the pace
300
00:23:57.230 --> 00:24:02.150
I was drinking, that hole in
my stomach probably would just kept getting bigger
301
00:24:02.150 --> 00:24:03.470
and bigger and I probably would have
led out at some point. And I
302
00:24:03.509 --> 00:24:07.190
don't know if we be having this
interview right now. But you know,
303
00:24:07.630 --> 00:24:14.779
just that that short reprieve, that
short pausing in the drinking and this,
304
00:24:14.980 --> 00:24:18.220
you know, focusing on my health
and being surrounded by people who were so
305
00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:22.140
into their health and into what their
passion was. They helped me a lot
306
00:24:22.259 --> 00:24:30.250
to, you know, to to
find something else occupy my mind, and
307
00:24:30.410 --> 00:24:33.569
not only that at but also to
put myself in a different environment because,
308
00:24:33.690 --> 00:24:37.680
you know, like we just talked
about earlier, like the work environment is
309
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:41.200
just fieled by alcohol, and the
legal profession is fueled by alcohol. Not
310
00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:45.799
just a legal profession. I'm not
trying to talk down about lawyers and say
311
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:48.759
we're all alcoholics. That's not the
case at all. No, I mean,
312
00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:52.509
you know, laying back to that
same article, I mean it was
313
00:24:52.750 --> 00:25:00.630
decided restaurant hospitality had raised, doctors
and healthcare, the arts and entertainment,
314
00:25:02.910 --> 00:25:07.980
construction, those in sales and then
those in, you know, the first
315
00:25:08.019 --> 00:25:12.619
responders, military, police, firefighters, you know, and that's a good
316
00:25:12.660 --> 00:25:17.259
segment of the population, of breaking
out of those professions and we, I
317
00:25:17.380 --> 00:25:21.690
guess, you know, conversations going
to focus on the legal pression. That's
318
00:25:21.690 --> 00:25:30.170
what we know. But but fin
you know, definitely not just limited to
319
00:25:30.609 --> 00:25:37.440
to that, but I want to
I tell you the interesting thing about that
320
00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:42.200
list. So if you really look
down that list, most of them the
321
00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:48.119
professions on there are professions that involve
helping others. Yep. So all the
322
00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:52.589
professions on there, whether it be
first responders, whether it be medical,
323
00:25:53.029 --> 00:25:56.309
whether they be us in the legal
field, it's a lot of these professions
324
00:25:56.349 --> 00:26:00.269
where we have to give ourselves to
others, and that's what our job is,
325
00:26:00.470 --> 00:26:04.660
is to give ourselves in some way
to others. And you know,
326
00:26:04.819 --> 00:26:11.779
and I think that goes back to
just just the general we give so much
327
00:26:11.819 --> 00:26:15.460
of ourselves and then we forget that
we needed, we need to take time
328
00:26:15.579 --> 00:26:21.089
for ourselves to we need to give
to ourselves as well. Yep. And
329
00:26:21.170 --> 00:26:30.569
I think you know the recognition of
that and you know it has to come
330
00:26:30.650 --> 00:26:33.079
a point where you get the understanding
is that you know it. You know
331
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.960
neither make the decision to turn things
around up for you. You know.
332
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:42.119
You know. Was it the hospitalization
or was it a moment where you you
333
00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:45.400
know, was the tough moment that
you had answer, that you had answer
334
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:49.910
the question that you know was probably
in the back of the man that you
335
00:26:49.950 --> 00:26:53.750
knew, but you know was dodging. I'm going to tell you I have
336
00:26:53.950 --> 00:27:00.630
my common to God moment. And
you know, basically, you know,
337
00:27:00.990 --> 00:27:06.660
I had the first incident where I
was hospitalized with an also and you know,
338
00:27:06.740 --> 00:27:08.299
for a normal person, that be
enough to scare you, that be
339
00:27:08.420 --> 00:27:12.940
enough to teach you the lesson that
you probably shouldn't drink anymore. And I
340
00:27:14.140 --> 00:27:15.930
thought that, you know, that
it would do that for me too,
341
00:27:17.089 --> 00:27:19.450
but not. Instead I try to
take the other option, the other route
342
00:27:19.529 --> 00:27:22.970
that many alcoholics do, and I
said, well, maybe I won't stop
343
00:27:23.250 --> 00:27:26.250
thinking, I just try to moderate
my drinking. So I tried to do
344
00:27:26.369 --> 00:27:30.079
that and then I mess that up
as well too, because then I ended
345
00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:33.880
up back in the hospital three more
times. And this is all happening in
346
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:37.519
the period of, you know,
of about two or three years, and
347
00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:40.720
you remember this because you you were
there from for a lot of it.
348
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:45.309
And then the final time I finally
ended up in the hospital. It was
349
00:27:45.349 --> 00:27:48.309
a culmination of a lot of things. It was, you know, I
350
00:27:48.470 --> 00:27:53.109
was coming to a point in my
life and my career while I was debating
351
00:27:53.309 --> 00:27:59.099
and questioning whether or not I still
wanted to continue practicing law. We were
352
00:27:59.140 --> 00:28:00.740
in the midst of the pandemic at
the time. So a lot of my
353
00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:06.539
business was drying up and a lot
of my cases weren't going anywhere. They
354
00:28:06.539 --> 00:28:10.940
were selling this because the courts weren't
really moving either at the time. And
355
00:28:11.099 --> 00:28:15.210
so I got to a point where
really I was just I was coming to
356
00:28:15.289 --> 00:28:18.970
the point where I was losing and
everything financially. I was not doing well
357
00:28:21.289 --> 00:28:23.769
emotionally, mentally, spiritually, it
was all coming to a head. And
358
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:30.359
you know, I've been through it, like I said Multiple Times before,
359
00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:34.680
with with this issue, with my
stomach. And then, you know,
360
00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:44.670
Valentine's Day of this year, I
realize that I was probably having another episode,
361
00:28:44.750 --> 00:28:49.509
I was probably bleeding again. So, you know, I was so
362
00:28:49.990 --> 00:28:53.190
out of it, I was sold
out and out this time that I didn't
363
00:28:53.190 --> 00:28:56.700
even really tell anybody. I didn't
even tell you, and you know you
364
00:28:56.779 --> 00:28:57.940
won't you, one of my best
friends, and I even tell you what.
365
00:28:59.019 --> 00:29:03.500
I ended up in the hospital up
in northside hospital up in Atlanta just,
366
00:29:03.859 --> 00:29:10.369
you know, just bleeding, and
you know this is during Coldvid,
367
00:29:10.450 --> 00:29:14.529
so nobody could come visit me even
if they wanted to. And while I
368
00:29:14.650 --> 00:29:18.329
was in that hospital, you know, I realize I might die in here
369
00:29:18.329 --> 00:29:22.490
alone because I'm sitting here and I'm
in pretty bad shape and no one's even
370
00:29:22.529 --> 00:29:26.119
allowed to come visit me. And
not only that, but I'm so ashamed
371
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:30.839
of letting myself get back in this
same position that I haven't even told anybody
372
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:34.960
that I'm in here. And you
know, we'll pick I want to pick
373
00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:40.670
this up on the other side of
the break and a bonus chep peace on
374
00:29:40.789 --> 00:29:45.430
this. But once we got to
that point where you know we are in
375
00:29:45.509 --> 00:29:49.869
there February this year, and you
realize it now, it is time that
376
00:29:51.029 --> 00:29:53.779
you know you want to, you
know, got a set an action plan
377
00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:57.059
moving forward and look at these lessons. And on the other side of this
378
00:29:57.259 --> 00:30:02.660
break, I want you to tell
our listeners, those that you know have
379
00:30:02.900 --> 00:30:07.569
had similar experiences, are found myself
close to that, what's an action plan
380
00:30:07.690 --> 00:30:11.170
or what some steps that they can
take and what's lessons that they can apply
381
00:30:11.730 --> 00:30:15.089
to kind of pull themself and get
to your position that you out so we'll
382
00:30:15.130 --> 00:30:15.890
pick us up after the break.
