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This is the Safety Scouting Report with your host, Scott Caffe.
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Welcome in to the Safety Scouting Report.
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My name is Scott Caffe.
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I am your host.
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This show is Toolbox Talks for Safety Professionals, where we go over new stuff, make some reminders,
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talk about key points that every safety professional should know.
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If you're new to the safety profession, hopefully this stuff helps you get a grip on some of
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the stuff that we're trying to do.
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And if you're an OG, maybe it's just a quick reminder, a quick way to go over some stuff
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and pull some stuff from the back of your mind up to the front.
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If you would like to get in touch with us here at the show, send an email to safetyscoutingreportatgmail.com.
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This is episode 8 and I decided to take a brief sabbatical, at least for this week,
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from the Hazards 101 series and talk about something else that's kind of near and dear
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to my heart.
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In the last month or so, I made the same post on Facebook and LinkedIn regarding a couple
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words that are supremely important to safety professionals as well as everyone else.
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Let me read you the post.
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And it's very brief.
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The most powerful word is no.
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The most important word is why.
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These two points came up specifically in New Higher Orientation, Hazard Identification,
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and Incident Investigation classes that I've taught, but they're actually everyday truths.
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And I believe that.
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The most powerful word in any language is no.
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Most important word in any language is why.
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Let's talk about no first from a safety perspective.
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And we're going to go for refusing hazardous work.
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That's really what this episode is about.
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So all workers have the right, or to me, responsibility to refuse hazardous work, to say no.
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And it's also the law.
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Several times during my career as a safety compliance officer, I came upon workers either
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on a roof or down in a trench and they were in there with no protection, no shoring in
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the trench, they were up on the roof with absolutely no fall protection.
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And I would ask them why?
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Why were you up there without the basic protections that can save your life in these obviously
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hazardous situations?
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And the response was generally something along the lines of, well, my boss told me to, or
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it's my job, I have to.
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And I get it.
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It's not just peer pressure.
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It's a job.
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If you are one of those folks, if you're a contractor, if you're a worker, people take
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pride in their work and take pride in doing the job that they have been trained to do.
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And I don't think it's just a toughness thing or anything like that.
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We tend to do that.
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We want to get the job done, but not at the cost of your own life and not putting your
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own life at risk.
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From OSHA's website, your right to refuse to do a task is protected if all the following
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conditions are met.
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Ready for this?
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There are four of them that OSHA lists.
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Where possible, you have asked the employer to eliminate the danger and the employer failed
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to do so.
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So let's say you are working on a forklift and you notice during your pre-shift check
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that the brakes are soft.
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You've marked it on your pre-shift checklist.
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You've told your supervisor and they said, it's fine, we can get by for a few days.
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Just go ahead and drive the truck.
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What are you going to do?
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Me?
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My background in the industry?
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I'm saying no.
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I'm not going to take a chance with my life or a pedestrian's life if they walk out from
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a blind corner in front of me and I can't panic stop because the brakes are soft.
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I'm not taking that risk.
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So that's what that point's about.
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The second point is you refuse to work in good faith.
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This means you must genuinely believe that there is an imminent danger that exists.
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So are you going to go down into that 10 foot deep trench to install the water line or are
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you going to wait for the trench box to get there?
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Me?
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I'm waiting for the trench box to get there.
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You have to.
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You don't go down in there because you can't tell.
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You can never tell for sure and that's the good faith.
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It's an unguarded trench.
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It's 10 feet deep.
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You know the OSHA standard.
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Four feet you've got to have a competent person.
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Five feet you've got to have protection.
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No ifs, ands, or buts.
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It's the law.
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Fourth point for refusing hazardous work from OSHA's website.
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A reasonable person would agree that there is a real danger of death or serious injury.
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The trench is pretty obvious.
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And if you're unsure, call your local fire department because here's the thing.
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If that trench collapses, they're the ones who are going to have to come out and do the
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rescue or recovery.
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And unfortunately, that's typically recovery.
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So calling OSHA, yeah, is a good idea but the time it would take to get a compliance
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officer on site could be hours.
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And that hazard is going to continue to exist.
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And even if you say no, your coworkers may go down in there.
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Call your local fire department.
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Ask them about it.
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Chances are they're going to come out and take a look and talk to your supervisor and
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get in between you.
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Fourth point, there isn't enough time due to the urgency of the hazard to get it corrected
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through regular enforcement channels such as requesting an OSHA inspection.
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And OSHA has different types of inspections.
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You can file a complaint, that'll take a little while to get through the system.
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You can also call in an imminent danger situation.
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And even if an imminent danger is called in, it's still going to take a while to get the
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compliance officer there.
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Your local emergency services, your fire department, are probably going to get there quicker.
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You should take the following steps.
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This is again from the OSHA website.
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Ask your employer to correct the hazard or assign other work.
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Good.
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Tell your employer that you won't perform the work unless and until the hazard is corrected.
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And remain at the work site until you're ordered to leave by your employer.
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So basically, all it's saying is if you see a hazardous situation, you ask for it to be
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corrected.
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You don't have to do it as long as it's something a reasonable person would agree is potentially
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hazardous and you don't just leave.
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So you can't just use this as a get out of work free card.
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Like that looks kind of dangerous, so I'm going to tell you I think it's dangerous and
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then I'm going to go home because I got other stuff to do.
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You can't do that.
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That's not part of it.
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But if you believe there is a hazard, tell your employer you can and you should refuse
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to do that work.
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Try and get it mitigated and stay there.
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So here's the other thing that comes about with those type of situations as kind of a
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counterpoint.
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I have had people in private industry think that there's a hazard.
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And because we all know the OSHA standards can be a little bit difficult to understand.
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They can be a little bit difficult to read and kind of glean the true meaning of.
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And hazards sometimes if you don't have a lot of experience can be hard to identify.
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I've had situations where an employee thought something was hazardous.
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I get called to the scene and there's really nothing wrong.
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Any hazards are adequately mitigated or abated.
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Everything's good and it was a misunderstanding.
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But that's where the second word, why, comes in and we'll talk about that more in a few
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minutes.
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The other thing I wanted to go through is the actual legalese.
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And because I'm in Kentucky, I pulled the actual Kentucky law that states that employees
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have the right to refuse work.
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It is 803KAR2-220, section 2, and part 1 states, if an employee is confronted with a choice
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between not performing assigned tasks or being subjected to death, serious injury or illness
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arising from a dangerous condition at the workplace, the employee may refuse in good
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faith to expose herself or himself to the dangerous condition.
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There you have it.
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That's law.
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You have the right, I call it a responsibility, to not expose yourself to hazardous situations.
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And everything else that we just talked about from the OSHA website is also lined out in
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parts 2, 3, 4, and 5 of 803KAR2-220, section 2.
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But it all stems from that.
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If there is a hazardous situation at your job site, at your factory, wherever you happen
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to be, you have the right to refuse that work as a worker.
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And as safety professionals, we have to understand that because most of the time, the majority
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of the time, we're going to be the gatekeepers.
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We're going to be the ones that look at the complaint, look at the situation, and based
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on our knowledge, experience, our competence, we're the subject matter experts here.
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We're going to be the ones to determine whether there is an actual hazard, and if so, stand
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by the employee every time.
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Don't let somebody push anybody around and force them to work in a hazardous situation.
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You just can't do that.
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And that leads to the most important word, which is why.
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Why always matters.
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For example, why would you refuse to accept or conduct hazardous or dangerous work?
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Why?
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Because you don't want to put yourself in that situation.
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You don't want to expose yourself to hazards.
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But explaining why is always key.
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When I conducted investigations and found violations as a compliance officer or hazards
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in private industry, I always tried to explain why, tried to give background.
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Education and training isn't just the other side of the OSHA coin from compliance.
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It's part of everything that any safety professional should be doing, is explaining why.
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The more people understand about what we do, the better off we all are.
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From incident investigations and 5 why processes to general understanding, why is always a
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key because why can get you a vested interest.
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Why gets buy-in.
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Why explains things.
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If people understand why we're asking them to do something, why we're asking them to
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wear PPE, why we've got certain work instructions and administrative guarding procedures, things
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like that, it always matters.
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And don't go in with a pointed finger, go in with a curious mind.
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Or if you're a fan of Ted Lasso, think about the darts game episode and remind yourself
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to be curious, not judgemental, which by the way is not a Walt Whitman quote, but that's
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something for a whole different podcast.
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Until next time, this has been the Safety Scouting Report.
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My name is Scott Kaif.
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We'll catch you next time.
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Overcast days, we return beyond.
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Rolling back clouds and a chill of this terrain.
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We're flying like birds singing nomads song.
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October's over and winter's on its way.
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Ain't no sunshine in the state of mind.
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Took a ten foot walk on a five foot pier.
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Scanned the horizon for a new way to fly.
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Looking so good as I'm choking on my fear.
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The path is torn, fading and aging.
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A mission contradiction, blind with rage.
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With those stars hidden in front of you.
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I've lost sight of the reasons I once knew.
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This is the Safety Scouting Report with your host, Scott Caffe.
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00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,420
Welcome in to the Safety Scouting Report.
3
00:00:26,420 --> 00:00:27,620
My name is Scott Caffe.
4
00:00:27,620 --> 00:00:29,160
I am your host.
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00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:35,160
This show is Toolbox Talks for Safety Professionals, where we go over new stuff, make some reminders,
6
00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:38,880
talk about key points that every safety professional should know.
7
00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:43,520
If you're new to the safety profession, hopefully this stuff helps you get a grip on some of
8
00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,460
the stuff that we're trying to do.
9
00:00:45,460 --> 00:00:50,440
And if you're an OG, maybe it's just a quick reminder, a quick way to go over some stuff
10
00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:55,380
and pull some stuff from the back of your mind up to the front.
11
00:00:55,380 --> 00:01:03,400
If you would like to get in touch with us here at the show, send an email to safetyscoutingreportatgmail.com.
12
00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:09,560
This is episode 8 and I decided to take a brief sabbatical, at least for this week,
13
00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:15,320
from the Hazards 101 series and talk about something else that's kind of near and dear
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00:01:15,320 --> 00:01:16,800
to my heart.
15
00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:26,000
In the last month or so, I made the same post on Facebook and LinkedIn regarding a couple
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00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:32,580
words that are supremely important to safety professionals as well as everyone else.
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Let me read you the post.
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And it's very brief.
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The most powerful word is no.
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The most important word is why.
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These two points came up specifically in New Higher Orientation, Hazard Identification,
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00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:55,520
and Incident Investigation classes that I've taught, but they're actually everyday truths.
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And I believe that.
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The most powerful word in any language is no.
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Most important word in any language is why.
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Let's talk about no first from a safety perspective.
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And we're going to go for refusing hazardous work.
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That's really what this episode is about.
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So all workers have the right, or to me, responsibility to refuse hazardous work, to say no.
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And it's also the law.
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Several times during my career as a safety compliance officer, I came upon workers either
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on a roof or down in a trench and they were in there with no protection, no shoring in
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the trench, they were up on the roof with absolutely no fall protection.
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And I would ask them why?
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Why were you up there without the basic protections that can save your life in these obviously
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hazardous situations?
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And the response was generally something along the lines of, well, my boss told me to, or
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it's my job, I have to.
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And I get it.
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It's not just peer pressure.
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It's a job.
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If you are one of those folks, if you're a contractor, if you're a worker, people take
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pride in their work and take pride in doing the job that they have been trained to do.
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And I don't think it's just a toughness thing or anything like that.
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We tend to do that.
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We want to get the job done, but not at the cost of your own life and not putting your
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own life at risk.
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From OSHA's website, your right to refuse to do a task is protected if all the following
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conditions are met.
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Ready for this?
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There are four of them that OSHA lists.
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Where possible, you have asked the employer to eliminate the danger and the employer failed
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to do so.
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So let's say you are working on a forklift and you notice during your pre-shift check
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that the brakes are soft.
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You've marked it on your pre-shift checklist.
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You've told your supervisor and they said, it's fine, we can get by for a few days.
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Just go ahead and drive the truck.
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What are you going to do?
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Me?
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My background in the industry?
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I'm saying no.
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I'm not going to take a chance with my life or a pedestrian's life if they walk out from
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a blind corner in front of me and I can't panic stop because the brakes are soft.
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I'm not taking that risk.
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So that's what that point's about.
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The second point is you refuse to work in good faith.
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This means you must genuinely believe that there is an imminent danger that exists.
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So are you going to go down into that 10 foot deep trench to install the water line or are
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you going to wait for the trench box to get there?
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Me?
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I'm waiting for the trench box to get there.
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You have to.
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You don't go down in there because you can't tell.
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You can never tell for sure and that's the good faith.
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It's an unguarded trench.
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It's 10 feet deep.
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You know the OSHA standard.
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Four feet you've got to have a competent person.
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Five feet you've got to have protection.
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No ifs, ands, or buts.
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It's the law.
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Fourth point for refusing hazardous work from OSHA's website.
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A reasonable person would agree that there is a real danger of death or serious injury.
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The trench is pretty obvious.
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And if you're unsure, call your local fire department because here's the thing.
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If that trench collapses, they're the ones who are going to have to come out and do the
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rescue or recovery.
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And unfortunately, that's typically recovery.
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So calling OSHA, yeah, is a good idea but the time it would take to get a compliance
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officer on site could be hours.
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And that hazard is going to continue to exist.
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And even if you say no, your coworkers may go down in there.
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Call your local fire department.
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Ask them about it.
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Chances are they're going to come out and take a look and talk to your supervisor and
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get in between you.
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Fourth point, there isn't enough time due to the urgency of the hazard to get it corrected
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through regular enforcement channels such as requesting an OSHA inspection.
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And OSHA has different types of inspections.
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You can file a complaint, that'll take a little while to get through the system.
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You can also call in an imminent danger situation.
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And even if an imminent danger is called in, it's still going to take a while to get the
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compliance officer there.
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Your local emergency services, your fire department, are probably going to get there quicker.
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You should take the following steps.
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This is again from the OSHA website.
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Ask your employer to correct the hazard or assign other work.
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Good.
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Tell your employer that you won't perform the work unless and until the hazard is corrected.
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And remain at the work site until you're ordered to leave by your employer.
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So basically, all it's saying is if you see a hazardous situation, you ask for it to be
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corrected.
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You don't have to do it as long as it's something a reasonable person would agree is potentially
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hazardous and you don't just leave.
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So you can't just use this as a get out of work free card.
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Like that looks kind of dangerous, so I'm going to tell you I think it's dangerous and
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then I'm going to go home because I got other stuff to do.
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You can't do that.
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That's not part of it.
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But if you believe there is a hazard, tell your employer you can and you should refuse
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to do that work.
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Try and get it mitigated and stay there.
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So here's the other thing that comes about with those type of situations as kind of a
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counterpoint.
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I have had people in private industry think that there's a hazard.
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And because we all know the OSHA standards can be a little bit difficult to understand.
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They can be a little bit difficult to read and kind of glean the true meaning of.
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And hazards sometimes if you don't have a lot of experience can be hard to identify.
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I've had situations where an employee thought something was hazardous.
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I get called to the scene and there's really nothing wrong.
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Any hazards are adequately mitigated or abated.
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Everything's good and it was a misunderstanding.
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But that's where the second word, why, comes in and we'll talk about that more in a few
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minutes.
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The other thing I wanted to go through is the actual legalese.
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And because I'm in Kentucky, I pulled the actual Kentucky law that states that employees
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have the right to refuse work.
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It is 803KAR2-220, section 2, and part 1 states, if an employee is confronted with a choice
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between not performing assigned tasks or being subjected to death, serious injury or illness
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arising from a dangerous condition at the workplace, the employee may refuse in good
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faith to expose herself or himself to the dangerous condition.
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There you have it.
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That's law.
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You have the right, I call it a responsibility, to not expose yourself to hazardous situations.
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And everything else that we just talked about from the OSHA website is also lined out in
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parts 2, 3, 4, and 5 of 803KAR2-220, section 2.
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But it all stems from that.
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If there is a hazardous situation at your job site, at your factory, wherever you happen
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to be, you have the right to refuse that work as a worker.
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And as safety professionals, we have to understand that because most of the time, the majority
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of the time, we're going to be the gatekeepers.
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We're going to be the ones that look at the complaint, look at the situation, and based
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on our knowledge, experience, our competence, we're the subject matter experts here.
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We're going to be the ones to determine whether there is an actual hazard, and if so, stand
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by the employee every time.
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Don't let somebody push anybody around and force them to work in a hazardous situation.
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You just can't do that.
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And that leads to the most important word, which is why.
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Why always matters.
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For example, why would you refuse to accept or conduct hazardous or dangerous work?
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Why?
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Because you don't want to put yourself in that situation.
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You don't want to expose yourself to hazards.
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But explaining why is always key.
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When I conducted investigations and found violations as a compliance officer or hazards
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in private industry, I always tried to explain why, tried to give background.
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Education and training isn't just the other side of the OSHA coin from compliance.
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It's part of everything that any safety professional should be doing, is explaining why.
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The more people understand about what we do, the better off we all are.
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From incident investigations and 5 why processes to general understanding, why is always a
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key because why can get you a vested interest.
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Why gets buy-in.
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Why explains things.
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If people understand why we're asking them to do something, why we're asking them to
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wear PPE, why we've got certain work instructions and administrative guarding procedures, things
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like that, it always matters.
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And don't go in with a pointed finger, go in with a curious mind.
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Or if you're a fan of Ted Lasso, think about the darts game episode and remind yourself
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to be curious, not judgemental, which by the way is not a Walt Whitman quote, but that's
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something for a whole different podcast.
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Until next time, this has been the Safety Scouting Report.
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My name is Scott Kaif.
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We'll catch you next time.
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Overcast days, we return beyond.
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Rolling back clouds and a chill of this terrain.
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We're flying like birds singing nomads song.
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October's over and winter's on its way.
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Ain't no sunshine in the state of mind.
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Took a ten foot walk on a five foot pier.
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Scanned the horizon for a new way to fly.
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Looking so good as I'm choking on my fear.
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The path is torn, fading and aging.
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A mission contradiction, blind with rage.
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With those stars hidden in front of you.
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I've lost sight of the reasons I once knew.
