Chris Vance: Welcome and thanks for joining us for another episode, of the Republican Legacy Podcast, the official podcast of our Republican Legacy. If you're not familiar with ORL, and why aren't you? we are a group of Republican activists across the country working to bring the Republican Party back to its core conservative principles. My name is Chris Vance. I'm the executive director of ORL. I'm a former Republican lawmaker, former chairman of the Washington State Republican Party. We'll be joined in a A bit by one of our really outstanding voices, one of the leaders in the Republican Party, former RNC Chairman Michael Steele. But first, joined by one of our luminary regulars, Merrill Matthews, Texas chair of Our Republican Legacy. And Chuck Brown, Michigan chair of Our Republican Legacy. We're going to talk a bit about Michigan. next week we'll be having an interview with Dave Trott, former congressman from Michigan. So we'll talk some about some Michigan politics leading into that. First, real quick, if you love us, if you love what we're doing and want to support us, go to our Republican Legacy dot com and you can make a donation. money's not our core function, but we do need donations. and you can join our national committee and definitely subscribe for this podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Chuck, welcome. we're
Chuck Brown: Thank you, Chris.
Chris Vance: We're tempted to ask you about the Michigan game that began the season, but we won't. i tell us a little about yeah,
Chuck Brown: I'd love it.
Chris Vance: tell us a little about yourself and what brought you to our Republican legacy.
Chuck Brown: Well, Chris, as you know, you and I met as part of Republicans for Harris. before that, I had been a one-time unsuccessful candidate for Republican precinct delegate in Michigan. I am now a newly elected Republican precinct delegate in Michigan, I'm happy to say. before that, Chris, I was a trial lawyer in Michigan. defense. Side in medical malpractice litigation, defending doctors and hospitals in malpractice cases. And in the 80s and 90s, that meant us defending the legislative tort reform of that era. As Merrill knows, George W. Bush's first great political success was as a tort reformer in Texas. And a lot of us got our start in Republican politics that way. We went through a String of what I of who I thought were wonderful Republican candidates, George W. Bush, Mitt Romney, John McCain in between them, all guys that I had enormous respect for and enthusiasm for as a Republican. In that time I also became a Republican poll watcher for the Republican National Lawyers Association and the Michigan GOP. And that was always an interesting experience in. Michigan. The city of Detroit is a city that is 95% maybe Democratic. And I felt strongly back in those days that that was an unhealthy kind of political ecosphere, and that that kind of situation needed Republican poll watchers. And in all of my years doing that, I never found any great fraud. it was interesting to be part of it. I was happy to be part of it and I discontinued my involvement with them in 2016.
Chris Vance: Great. thanks for joining us. We love this. All right, so we're gonna talk to Dave Trot next week. Tell us a little about him. Tell us a little about Michigan politics right now. You guys are in some ways ground zero. Because it seems to be a lot of ground zeros out there as the polls
Merrill Matthews: Yeah.
Chris Vance: the poll numbers keep collapsing for Republicans everywhere. you're tell us about your Senate race and generally what's going on in in Michigan.
Chuck Brown: Yeah, well, it's a it's an honor and a privilege and just plain fun and good to to be a quasi introducer of Dave Trot. I hope he considers me a friend. We're we're sort of newly acquainted since the days of the of the Harris Walls campaign when Dave was a faithful contributor to our efforts in that regard. Dave is just a wonderful, wonderful guy, a very successful. law firm, senior partner, managing partner in Michigan, very successful. Ran in a kind of a difficult district. left of his own accord, was never voted out, was never forced out, was never redistricted out. he's just a wonderful, wonderful guy to have as part of our organization. I just can't praise Dave highly enough. Man of great integrity.
Chris Vance: Good. Tell ya what, let if you've got time, let's bring you back next week to help talk to him. So Merrill,
Chuck Brown: I'd love it.
Chris Vance: it's been a heck of a week.
Merrill Matthews: Yeah.
Chris Vance: you know, we made news on this podcast last week,
Chuck Brown: Yeah.
Merrill Matthews: Mm-hmm.
Chris Vance: with Don Bacon saying that he's considering running for president. We're excited by that. What did you think and what have you heard this week?
Merrill Matthews: Well, I think that's I think that's going well. I think a lot of Republican candidates giving some kind of thought to that because of some of the problems that we're having in the country for Republicans. And Chuck, I noticed that Gretchen Whitmeyer, your governor, yesterday had a piece in the Wall Street Journal talking about the impact of tariffs. on Michigan. And I did my piece in the Hill this week looked at the Canada Canadian tariffs and the fight that Trump's having with them and how that affects so many states. What are you seeing there in Michigan with respect to those Canadian tariffs?
Chuck Brown: It's an absolute everyday discussion. if you're watching Detroit media, television, radio, These days every ad is a political ad, but in normal times, about half the ads will be these curious ads for automotive suppliers and high-tech componentry and that kind of thing. The auto industry is dominant here, and we are absolute partners with Canada in that. if you go to a Red Wings game, about a third of the fans there are going to be from our city to the The south, interestingly, Windsor.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Chuck Brown: We are absolutely as tightly wound with Windsor and Ontario as we are with Toledo and Ohio. or Fort Wayne in Indiana or Chicago in Illinois.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Chuck Brown: we are absolutely tied with them, and everybody knows, regardless of party ideology, economic strata, everybody in Southeast Michigan is affected negatively, virtually in every case, by this tariff war and the general trade war. Terrible.
Merrill Matthews: National Public Radio aired a focus group in Michigan that they've been doing around the country, but this is Michigan people. And they aired it just recently and these were all voters who voted for Joe Biden in twenty twenty and Donald Trump in twenty twenty four.
Chuck Brown: Mm, yeah.
Merrill Matthews: And they asked these voters, how are you feeling about this? and the point was the large majority of them said are very, very dissatisfied with Donald Trump and the economy right now. And the point was these were people who put Donald Trump over the finish line in twenty twenty four and they are not happy now.
Chuck Brown: That's absolutely true. And and the Cook Political Report, all of us political junkies know it, came out with something just this morning that is showing how soft the fringe Trump support is. all of the Trump supporters that you know were not three-time Trump voters, not enthusiastic MAGA. the Cook Political Report is finding out just how fragile those voters are for trump and mega and today's GOP. they are in big trouble today's GOP is with those voters and it's very very interesting reading in this morning's Cook political report
Chris Vance: swing voters are heavily impacted about the most basic thing is which is like what's happening to them. And gas prices are through the roof, grocery prices are through the roof, the economy generally is struggling because of high inflation. Gee, I wonder why we have high inflation. Tariffs are taxes, which drive up prices. The debt, which you know, the Trump administration and this supposedly Republican Congress has added a trillion dollars to the debt. When you increase the debt, the government has to borrow more, driving up interest rates, which raises prices. and and now you have the Fed raising interest rates to try. slow down inflation, which is going to make it harder for people to buy cars and buy houses. So for all of those reasons, you just have you know inflation through the roof and it's it's just killing Republicans in the polling data. And and so
Chuck Brown: Yeah.
Chris Vance: the other big thing this week, the House of Representatives passed The Lindsey Graham Russia sanctions bill to punish them for their invasion of Ukraine. Don Bacon stood on the floor and gave a hell of a speech regarding that. I don't know if Trump is going to sign it or not. The vast majority of Republicans in both houses voted for it. But reactions to perhaps the Republican Party going back to its core principles on peace through strength and not being isolationist. What do you think?
Chuck Brown: Yeah, well, I mean in another life, Mike Rogers would have been giving a floor speech alongside Don Bacon. it's an interesting dynamic in Michigan right now. We've got a lot of Republicans in Michigan who would be naturally aligned with us, who think like us. the the twenty twenty-one Mike Rogers Would have been part of ORL.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Chuck Brown: but he's compromised now in the current environment, which requires compromises by anybody who wants to win a statewide Republican primary.
Merrill Matthews: Chuck, that's a really important point because you've got one of the most watched Senate races in the country there in Michigan. And the last I looked, El Saed is up in the polls by two or three points. you would think somebody who's that progressive might not do that well, but he seems to be leading the polls.
Chuck Brown: Yes. and it is a very tight race, and every Senate race in Michigan is a tight race. It doesn't matter who the candidates are. Rogers ran in 2024 and lost by an extraordinarily narrow number, 10,000 plus votes in a state the size of Michigan, to the newly elected Alyssa Slotkin. and there are others, frankly, like Mike Rogers in the state. there are three hot congressional races in Michigan. The Michigan tenth, the Michigan seventh, and the Michigan fourth. And all three of those feature incumbent Republicans who are kind of out of the Mike Rogers mold, which is that in another life they'd be wonderful traditional Republicans. But they're compromised in the era of Trump. it's going to be interesting to see how those three races turn out. All three races, plus the Senate race, feature very, very similar kinds of dynamics, which is Republicans who are basically sort of good guys, but none of them could admit who won the 2020 election. Fred Upton recently
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Chuck Brown: came out and endorsed Mike Rod. Rogers. And that's a choice that I understand. Fred goes way back with Mike Rogers and knows Rogers to be a basically good guy. But I don't know how Mike is going to fare in an upcoming debate. There's going to be two of them with Abdul El Sayed, where he's going to be asked who won the twenty twenty election? And was your Senate election in twenty twenty four rigged and stolen from you? As Charlie.
Chris Vance: Yeah. we're coming here to the end of this segment of the podcast, but it's not surprising that Michigan's competitive. It is surprising that Texas is competitive. Merrill, give us
Chuck Brown: Yeah.
Chris Vance: our weekly Texas update.
Merrill Matthews: Well the polls still have favored James Talarico, depending upon which poll, by two to three points. Interestingly, a new poll out shows that Gina He knowosa, the Democratic candidate for governor, in one poll is actually leading Greg Abbott, and the other poll Greg Abbott's leading. I'd be surprised if Hinahosa could pull that up. But I'll tell you, in the 2018 race where Ted Cruz barely beat Beto O'Rourke, Beto O'Rourke never led in the polls. And in this case, James Tolerico has consistently led in the polls, so much So that Republicans have put in $60 million here in the last week to try to save Ken Paxton. That's $60 million that could have gone other places to help Republicans in tight races. They are now trying to pull out Ken Paxton, and it's not clear they're going to win with that.
Chris Vance: Wow. So okay, so gentlemen, thank you. one last thought on the upcoming midterms, you we're s we're still a few weeks out, so nothing's certain. But you can look at the basic battleground and the Republicans have basically conceded the normally swing states in terms of Senate elections, Georgia, North Carolina. Instead,
Merrill Matthews: Mm-hmm.
Chris Vance: they're left defending bright red states, Ohio. Iowa, Nebraska, Alaska, Texas. That's how bad things are for Republicans right now, and there's only one reason for it. The Republican Party has deviated from proven core conservative policies at work and tanked the economy and that's why they're in trouble and that's what they've got to get away from. Guys, thank you. So Chuck, reserve the time. Let's have you back next week to talk to your friend Dave Trot. Merrill,
Chuck Brown: Delighted.
Chris Vance: thank you. And this podcast will be back in just a moment with a interview with one of the most dynamic, smart guys in our movement, Michael Steele. Lynn Schmidt, our Missouri Chair, and I are joined by a very special guest. He doesn't even feel like a guest, he's a member of the family. Michael Steele, the host of Weeknight MS Now. Before that, the Lieutenant Governor of Maryland, the chairman of the Maryland Republican Party, which manned him made him a member of the Republican National Committee when I was a young chairman of the Washington State Republican Party. And
Michael Steele: Yeah.
Chris Vance: us and as Michael will tell you, state chairs are the ones that actually do all the work in the RNC s so we we'd hang out a
Michael Steele: Yes.
Chris Vance: bit. and one of the thirty four founding members of our Republican legacy and, you know, maybe maybe the most powerful and articulate voice in in our movement. So Michael, thank you for joining us. Lynn?
Michael Steele: Thank you very much, Chris. It's so good to be with you. Lynn, it's so good to see you and thank you for stepping up in your leadership. It means a lot at the grassroots level to have everyday Republicans who understand the core principles of what makes us, an important part of the American story. you know, things we value. it's very important to see you out there and hit both of you. Chris and I go way back.
Chris Vance: Hm.
Michael Steele: We have a lot of stories we can share about the heyday of RNC activities, but we're in a different time and it's just great to have ORL out there on the front lines.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah, so Michael, thank you for joining our Republican Legacies
Michael Steele: Mm-hmm.
Lynn Schmidt: podcast. the ORL leadership includes Senator John Dampforth, Governor Mark Roscoe, Congresswoman Barbara Comstock, and Congressman Charlie Dent. And you've known these leaders through Republican politics and you've also interviewed several of them on the weeknight. What connects this particular group of Republicans?
Michael Steele: I think it's the idea of freedom. fact that, look, I've always styled myself and defined myself as a Lincoln Republican. And I think the individuals that you just mentioned do the same. And what does that mean? It's a little bit different for each of us because we all came to the party in different ways. I grew up in Washington, D.C. So I did not grow up in a Republican company town. I was not a young Republican, a college Republican or a teenage Republican. I grew up amongst Democrats and identified as a Republican because I believe fundamentally in what Lincoln and the party that broke from the wigs that became the Republican party stood for. And that was the individual freedom of every person under our constitution. At the end of the day, it's not what particular law is passed or what policy is approved, it is that you stand for the rights, liberties and freedoms of individuals to choose their own course to make their American dream. And I think fundamentally that's where the party started. I think it's what the party has strayed away from. you know, someone like a Barbara Comstock and others are in the fight now to pull that back in front of us, to make that part of the conversation again, to get us off of this abusive cycle, almost a self-abuse cycle of kowtowing to the whims of one individual who is neither Republican, certainly not formed in the fashion of Lincoln, and I think represents a greater danger to our country, ideologically and philosophically, where it's not about one for all and all for one, it's just about one.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: And the party has never really stood for that until now. And so these voices are very, very important to level up at this time. And I think it's something as Chris can tell you, and I just have to give just a moment folks, just to say, I don't know how much, you probably don't because you don't see the nook and crannies in the back room conversations and the going into the corner to try to dig out a pathway that Chris Vance has done in his leadership as the executive director of ORL. It is that kind of tenacity, that kind of fortitude and vision, which he had from the very beginning. And then Chris can tell you, there were a lot of folks when we first started this conversation three years ago who were not buying what Chris was selling.
Chris Vance: Ha
Michael Steele: And
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: that was, let's refocus on the things that matter to the American people. And at the core of that is their freedom. And those, five pillars of our Republican legacy is the foundation on which that freedom stands. so having leaders out there, Charlie Dent and others, as you mentioned, is an important step forward in elevating the ideal of Lincoln around the modern concept of not just Republicanism and its legacy, but what it will mean to the country in the future.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm. Well, I I appreciate your kind words, sir. if I'll give myself credit for anything, it's that I think I saw something that I'm very surprised nor most people haven't realized and maybe are just now waking up to, and that is elections decide everything.
Michael Steele: Yes
Chris Vance: And there's g and and there's gonna
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Chris Vance: be all is not lost. I mean, people have been sitting around, my god, what can we do? The party is lost forever. There is no forever in politics. And there's gonna be an election in twenty twenty eight, and Donald Trump will not be the Republican nominee, and that changes everything. And and ORL understands that and is focused on that. And this last week, Lynn helped make some news on our little podcast when she
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Chris Vance: got Don Bacon to say that. That he is considering running for president. we're pretty excited about that. right off the top, what's your reaction? I mean, about Don Bacon putting openly saying he's thinking of running for president.
Michael Steele: You know, I think it's important. I think it's great. I very much like Don Bacon. I know we tried to get him on my show a number of times, and that didn't work out. because I believe his voice in the conversation that he brings us to is an important one. And I think the idea of someone like Don Bacon being the bearer of a forward-looking Republican Party, not a Republican Party that's trying to recreate Reaganism, not a Republican Party that's trying to rebrand from Trumpism, but a Republican Party that is fully focused on an America that looks like the three of us, right?
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: An America that comes from the various backgrounds that we represent and so many others. that is not afraid of America's future, not afraid of the direction the American people are taking the country through its diversity, through its opportunity, through its equity, through its inclusion, through its ability to recognize that our strength has always been when we come together, not when we stand in tribal corners looking desperately at the other as the other or the enemy.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: So a voice like Bacon's, I think it's going to be very, important. I do want to caution because I am also a realist and somewhat of a student of Donald Trump, having worked with him in the past and having observed him and dealt with his administrations over the last number of years is that I do not discount nor should we discount Donald Trump having a play in the 2028 cycle.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: I do, you know, I think that there is a desperation about a man who understands that he is a convicted felon. He has 34 counts outstanding in the state of New York, which he has to account for. So it does not bode well for him to just leave office. There's a reason why he's building all these monuments to himself in this town. There's a reason why he tore up the East Wing to expand a bunker, which was already there. I see Donald Trump being desperate and dangerous. As we get closer to 2028, he is not going to anoint his vice president, nor Marco Rubio, as his successor. It is not in his DNA to
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: put himself second to someone. So I think the country needs to be ready for that. And I think individuals like Don Bacon and others need to be ready for that. This is going to be a test of their ability to stand. stand strong, stand erect in the face of what Donald Trump represents and recognize that if you want to be the titular head of this party, you're gonna have to act like it. And so I'm waiting. I'm waiting to see who does that because right now no one has. No one in my estimation has shown themselves capable of doing that or willing to do that. And so that's what is exciting. about this period, also for me very, very cautious, makes me very cautious because I'm waiting for that individual to say enough, follow me.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah. So if you were advising Bacon or another constitutional conservative contemplating twenty twenty eight, what would you tell that person to begin doing today?
Michael Steele: Distinguish yourself from the crazy that's happening right now. I just don't understand what we're doing. I mean, we just witnessed the midterm convention crazy. I don't even know what that was, why we did that. It was very telling that significant candidates did not participate in that. Who's going to lead? Who's going to pull all of these pieces together? Pull that base together. Look, our base has been angry since Ronald Reagan left office. And no one has the brain power, I still haven't figured out why, to figure that out. All
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Michael Steele: right, we've never resolved that. When Reagan left, the biggest question around town and around the country is who's the next Reagan? Well, okay, we got to stop looking for Reagan.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Michael Steele: Right? So who then is going to emerge and say, I'm the kind of leader we need right now in this moment. I don't need another Donald Trump. I don't need a MAGA knockoff. I need someone to stand in space and look the country in the eye and go, folks, we have just experienced the longest weekend at Bernie's in the history of mankind.
Chris Vance: Ha ha ha.
Michael Steele: All right? And it's time for us now to go to work. It's Monday morning in America, right?
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: It's time to go to work. We need to reinvest in our farmers. We need to reinvest in our manufacturing sector. We are having our asses handed to us by China, right? We need to reestablish ourselves on the global stage. Our allies are our partners, they're not our enemies. They're not people that we can make money off of. We're not gonna negotiate a deal. We're going to transition the country and the world onto a better platform because it's gotten less safe and more dangerous. So how do we do that? How do we push that narrative out there? I don't need Reagan. I need leaders.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: I don't need Bush. I need a leader. I need you to be authentically you and just share that story, your story and how that connects to me and my small business. I'm trying to feed my family. I'm trying to raise my kids. What about the education? What about, you know, the history of the country? I'm not going to, I can't look America in the eye and go black people, you over there, Hispanics, you over there, white folks. I can't do that. We got to figure out how we all pull together to make the country stronger. And so that's the starting point for me. When
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Michael Steele: you break away from the current narrative and say, now it's time for something different. It's time for something better.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Chris Vance: Right. So I'll tell you there are two things that made me very excited with the Bacon announcement hint and
Michael Steele: Mm-hmm.
Chris Vance: podcast. Number one, it confirms something I believed was true and I'm hearing, is that the Republican establishment, I mean our folks, people who have not joined us on the front lines, but
Michael Steele: Right.
Chris Vance: agree with us. They recognize that there was no way to take this party back from Donald Trump in twenty twenty or twenty four. But they know they're they're getting geared up for a fight. in twenty eight. And that's cr people've gotta understand that. I cannot look you in the eye and tell you that we are going to win in twenty eight. But for the first time since twenty sixteen there's gonna be a fight for control of this party. The second thing is Don Bacon may or may not be the eventual nominee, but this guy is fearless. He is absolutely fearless. He has stood up against the MAGA machine over and over again. he's you know, he's won primary elections when they when the state chair of his party censured him. and if you listen to him on the podcast, he is absolutely fearless. And I think it's very hard for MAGA to question his patriotism or devotion to this country. And he's spent thirty years in uniform as a brigadier general in the Air Force. and I think we're about to see once we get past the midterms, the conversation in our party change dramatically. What now I'm way out here in Seattle. You're in you're in the heart of it back there, Michael. What what are you hearing in Washington?
Lynn Schmidt: And I'm in the middle between the two of you.
Michael Steele: Yeah, you are.
Chris Vance: Yeah.
Michael Steele: So not much. I don't think right now there is much stock being put into individuals like Don Bacon, not because they don't have stock to invest in, but rather because they aren't focused on that right now. I think that bell will ring. the Wednesday morning, November 4th, after the elections. Now, some of that's going to be contingent on the degree to which Donald Trump and his abuse of the electoral system is still in play. You know, they've already given us a lot of warning signs and set off enough alarm bells with three times, three attempts to get the Supreme Court to... interfere with our national elections. So we'll see how that storyline plays out. But I think what will emerge will be those voices. Now, Bacon is one of the first out of the gate. That will be good for Don to sort of set the tone in the stage, if you will. That would be me. If I did it, it would be like, OK. Now, game on, baby. Let's do this, right? But I want to go back to something you said, Chris, because I think it's important. You know. You have a lot more faith in Republicans, individual Republican leaders, and I put that in air quotes for those who are listening to this, than I do. I watched 15 individuals stand on a stage in 2016 and get their asses handed to them by Donald Trump and not one of them defended themselves against the man who talked about their family, their wives, their children. I don't know if that will be the play again. Because I think MAGA will come after whoever this individuals or individuals are that begin to emerge outside of the MAGA space. think the system is designed, which is why when I was national chairman, I actually wanted to scale back or at least, if not eliminate our primary system. Because I think it's destructive, to be honest, the way it's currently structured. It gives way too much weight to 12 % of the voting population to decide who the nominee of the party is. So that means a couple of things. Folks need to get off their ass and get in the game in a primary. You don't like the outcome, then damn it, vote. Hello, not complicated. Go vote.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Michael Steele: So when you've got 12 to 20 % of all Republicans in your state, or all Republicans in the congressional district voting, you're going to get a 12 % outcome, right? So that's the first part of this. so I'm curious to see when the bullets come, when the firestorm begins, how these individuals stand up to it, or do they capitulate because the system, the primary system is going to force them to bend towards the will of MAGA as opposed to the will of Republicans to get through that system and more broadly, the will of the American people to give us
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Michael Steele: a different kind of new leadership. So that's gonna be a big first test when the primary season for the presidency gets underway, whether or not these folks will stand tall enough when they come under the assault because The Republican base is more than MAGA. It just is.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Absolutely right.
Lynn Schmidt: seeing that in my home state of Missouri, which is the show me state. if if you're paying attention to the news this week, you know there's a gerrymandering case that
Michael Steele: Right.
Lynn Schmidt: Justice Kavanaugh rejected saying we have to go use the old maps in November. And then a district court judge just said, no, we're we're not doing that. So We're still in the midst of it, but it was very interesting in our primary elections that the mega candidates lost and there were a few ballot initiatives that were pushed by the very mega wing of the Republican Party and those were defeated by eighty percent. I mean, I think we're leading the pack here.
Michael Steele: Yeah, hear what you're saying, Lynn, but let's be clear, ballot initiatives and court cases are not individual standing up, pushing in that direction. Pardon
Lynn Schmidt: Sure. Well, the MAGA candidates also lost. Yeah.
Michael Steele: me?
Lynn Schmidt: Candidates lost, mega candidates lost as well.
Michael Steele: Yeah, and that's a good and positive sign. But again,
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: it is one thing when it is localized like that versus now. I've got to not just worry about MAGAs in Missouri. I got to worry about MAGA all over the place.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: And so how you ground yourself as a candidate becomes incredibly important. and sitting down with your team and having them understand. And this is going to be the lesson for Don Bacon out of the gate. look, I'm happy to make myself available to Mr. Bacon if he wants to have a conversation, because I know a little bit about these things, having advised
Lynn Schmidt: Mm-hmm.
Chris Vance: Ha
Michael Steele: about four presidential candidates over the years and certainly won a few races nationally. I think that you've got to One of my favorite Shakespearean phrases is, you know, he's got to screw his courage to the sticking post,
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Michael Steele: as Madame Macbeth would tell you. And I think it's important that that happened, that you find the courage to be president.
Chris Vance: Right. Hey, we
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Chris Vance: are we're coming to the end of our time here. Before we do though, Michael, tell us about your show. There's something new now with MS Now. You're launching a membership program with a lot of benefits. We all love seeing you out there. what is this new program and w how can people avail themselves of it?
Michael Steele: Well, it's a lot of fun actually. And I really have to give credit to our team that sort of thought through this idea of it's a lot of what we've been talking about. How do we connect to the communities that watch us? How do we connect to the people that listen to us, who read us online? And so MS Now has launched, you know, it's efforts is what they call DTC direct to consumer membership. where you can join up by going to MSDow.com and going on and watching and listening to your host, your favorite host. Every Thursday at noon, I do a live feed, you know, in the chair, in the corner with the chairman. You can kind of sit in a little space and we talk and you ask questions. And I answer those questions live for you about everything. You know me, I'm not afraid to take on a question because Lord knows I've been in enough rooms where they've thrown stuff at me. But it's really designed to sort of connect what you see on TV to a bigger, a greater experience. So we're going to be, we were in Dallas, for example, for the RNC event and did a live show there. And we're going to be back in Dallas on September 26th for our big community event there. And so people can just go check that out and certainly watch me every night at 7 p.m. Eastern on the weeknight with my co-host, Simone Sanders Townsend and Luke Russert. And there's really kind of, I think have a different kind of experience. where there's a little bit more connectivity through the digital age, if you will.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Michael Steele: It's not just the sort of cable television, but we're looking at something more broad and certainly something much more community oriented. So it's a lot of fun.
Chris Vance: That's great. That is fantastic.
Lynn Schmidt: Great.
Chris Vance: We are glad though that your MS now duties don't prevent you from helping us with
Lynn Schmidt: Mm-hmm.
Chris Vance: ORL because we could not do without you, sir. the organization that you helped found is growing. We're over thirteen thousand names now nationwide, thirty state chairs
Michael Steele: I love it.
Chris Vance: and growing. and and things are happening. So thank you, folks. if you enjoy our content again, please go to our Republican Legacy dot com. We're not a pack. We don't exist to make money, but we always need money. Everybody needs money. And you make
Lynn Schmidt: Ha ha.
Chris Vance: a small donation, that'd be great. sign up to join our national committee. As I said earlier, we really need state chairs in the two other early states, Iowa and Nevada. So if you'd like to assume that role, that'd be great. And keep watching this podcast wherever you get your podcast. One more time, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Lynn, thank you.
Lynn Schmidt: Yes, thank you, Michael.
Michael Steele: Thank you.
Chris Vance: You bet we'll be back next week.
Lynn Schmidt: Thanks.
Chuck Brown: Thank you, Chris.
Chris Vance: We're tempted to ask you about the Michigan game that began the season, but we won't. i tell us a little about yeah,
Chuck Brown: I'd love it.
Chris Vance: tell us a little about yourself and what brought you to our Republican legacy.
Chuck Brown: Well, Chris, as you know, you and I met as part of Republicans for Harris. before that, I had been a one-time unsuccessful candidate for Republican precinct delegate in Michigan. I am now a newly elected Republican precinct delegate in Michigan, I'm happy to say. before that, Chris, I was a trial lawyer in Michigan. defense. Side in medical malpractice litigation, defending doctors and hospitals in malpractice cases. And in the 80s and 90s, that meant us defending the legislative tort reform of that era. As Merrill knows, George W. Bush's first great political success was as a tort reformer in Texas. And a lot of us got our start in Republican politics that way. We went through a String of what I of who I thought were wonderful Republican candidates, George W. Bush, Mitt Romney, John McCain in between them, all guys that I had enormous respect for and enthusiasm for as a Republican. In that time I also became a Republican poll watcher for the Republican National Lawyers Association and the Michigan GOP. And that was always an interesting experience in. Michigan. The city of Detroit is a city that is 95% maybe Democratic. And I felt strongly back in those days that that was an unhealthy kind of political ecosphere, and that that kind of situation needed Republican poll watchers. And in all of my years doing that, I never found any great fraud. it was interesting to be part of it. I was happy to be part of it and I discontinued my involvement with them in 2016.
Chris Vance: Great. thanks for joining us. We love this. All right, so we're gonna talk to Dave Trot next week. Tell us a little about him. Tell us a little about Michigan politics right now. You guys are in some ways ground zero. Because it seems to be a lot of ground zeros out there as the polls
Merrill Matthews: Yeah.
Chris Vance: the poll numbers keep collapsing for Republicans everywhere. you're tell us about your Senate race and generally what's going on in in Michigan.
Chuck Brown: Yeah, well, it's a it's an honor and a privilege and just plain fun and good to to be a quasi introducer of Dave Trot. I hope he considers me a friend. We're we're sort of newly acquainted since the days of the of the Harris Walls campaign when Dave was a faithful contributor to our efforts in that regard. Dave is just a wonderful, wonderful guy, a very successful. law firm, senior partner, managing partner in Michigan, very successful. Ran in a kind of a difficult district. left of his own accord, was never voted out, was never forced out, was never redistricted out. he's just a wonderful, wonderful guy to have as part of our organization. I just can't praise Dave highly enough. Man of great integrity.
Chris Vance: Good. Tell ya what, let if you've got time, let's bring you back next week to help talk to him. So Merrill,
Chuck Brown: I'd love it.
Chris Vance: it's been a heck of a week.
Merrill Matthews: Yeah.
Chris Vance: you know, we made news on this podcast last week,
Chuck Brown: Yeah.
Merrill Matthews: Mm-hmm.
Chris Vance: with Don Bacon saying that he's considering running for president. We're excited by that. What did you think and what have you heard this week?
Merrill Matthews: Well, I think that's I think that's going well. I think a lot of Republican candidates giving some kind of thought to that because of some of the problems that we're having in the country for Republicans. And Chuck, I noticed that Gretchen Whitmeyer, your governor, yesterday had a piece in the Wall Street Journal talking about the impact of tariffs. on Michigan. And I did my piece in the Hill this week looked at the Canada Canadian tariffs and the fight that Trump's having with them and how that affects so many states. What are you seeing there in Michigan with respect to those Canadian tariffs?
Chuck Brown: It's an absolute everyday discussion. if you're watching Detroit media, television, radio, These days every ad is a political ad, but in normal times, about half the ads will be these curious ads for automotive suppliers and high-tech componentry and that kind of thing. The auto industry is dominant here, and we are absolute partners with Canada in that. if you go to a Red Wings game, about a third of the fans there are going to be from our city to the The south, interestingly, Windsor.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Chuck Brown: We are absolutely as tightly wound with Windsor and Ontario as we are with Toledo and Ohio. or Fort Wayne in Indiana or Chicago in Illinois.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Chuck Brown: we are absolutely tied with them, and everybody knows, regardless of party ideology, economic strata, everybody in Southeast Michigan is affected negatively, virtually in every case, by this tariff war and the general trade war. Terrible.
Merrill Matthews: National Public Radio aired a focus group in Michigan that they've been doing around the country, but this is Michigan people. And they aired it just recently and these were all voters who voted for Joe Biden in twenty twenty and Donald Trump in twenty twenty four.
Chuck Brown: Mm, yeah.
Merrill Matthews: And they asked these voters, how are you feeling about this? and the point was the large majority of them said are very, very dissatisfied with Donald Trump and the economy right now. And the point was these were people who put Donald Trump over the finish line in twenty twenty four and they are not happy now.
Chuck Brown: That's absolutely true. And and the Cook Political Report, all of us political junkies know it, came out with something just this morning that is showing how soft the fringe Trump support is. all of the Trump supporters that you know were not three-time Trump voters, not enthusiastic MAGA. the Cook Political Report is finding out just how fragile those voters are for trump and mega and today's GOP. they are in big trouble today's GOP is with those voters and it's very very interesting reading in this morning's Cook political report
Chris Vance: swing voters are heavily impacted about the most basic thing is which is like what's happening to them. And gas prices are through the roof, grocery prices are through the roof, the economy generally is struggling because of high inflation. Gee, I wonder why we have high inflation. Tariffs are taxes, which drive up prices. The debt, which you know, the Trump administration and this supposedly Republican Congress has added a trillion dollars to the debt. When you increase the debt, the government has to borrow more, driving up interest rates, which raises prices. and and now you have the Fed raising interest rates to try. slow down inflation, which is going to make it harder for people to buy cars and buy houses. So for all of those reasons, you just have you know inflation through the roof and it's it's just killing Republicans in the polling data. And and so
Chuck Brown: Yeah.
Chris Vance: the other big thing this week, the House of Representatives passed The Lindsey Graham Russia sanctions bill to punish them for their invasion of Ukraine. Don Bacon stood on the floor and gave a hell of a speech regarding that. I don't know if Trump is going to sign it or not. The vast majority of Republicans in both houses voted for it. But reactions to perhaps the Republican Party going back to its core principles on peace through strength and not being isolationist. What do you think?
Chuck Brown: Yeah, well, I mean in another life, Mike Rogers would have been giving a floor speech alongside Don Bacon. it's an interesting dynamic in Michigan right now. We've got a lot of Republicans in Michigan who would be naturally aligned with us, who think like us. the the twenty twenty-one Mike Rogers Would have been part of ORL.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Chuck Brown: but he's compromised now in the current environment, which requires compromises by anybody who wants to win a statewide Republican primary.
Merrill Matthews: Chuck, that's a really important point because you've got one of the most watched Senate races in the country there in Michigan. And the last I looked, El Saed is up in the polls by two or three points. you would think somebody who's that progressive might not do that well, but he seems to be leading the polls.
Chuck Brown: Yes. and it is a very tight race, and every Senate race in Michigan is a tight race. It doesn't matter who the candidates are. Rogers ran in 2024 and lost by an extraordinarily narrow number, 10,000 plus votes in a state the size of Michigan, to the newly elected Alyssa Slotkin. and there are others, frankly, like Mike Rogers in the state. there are three hot congressional races in Michigan. The Michigan tenth, the Michigan seventh, and the Michigan fourth. And all three of those feature incumbent Republicans who are kind of out of the Mike Rogers mold, which is that in another life they'd be wonderful traditional Republicans. But they're compromised in the era of Trump. it's going to be interesting to see how those three races turn out. All three races, plus the Senate race, feature very, very similar kinds of dynamics, which is Republicans who are basically sort of good guys, but none of them could admit who won the 2020 election. Fred Upton recently
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Chuck Brown: came out and endorsed Mike Rod. Rogers. And that's a choice that I understand. Fred goes way back with Mike Rogers and knows Rogers to be a basically good guy. But I don't know how Mike is going to fare in an upcoming debate. There's going to be two of them with Abdul El Sayed, where he's going to be asked who won the twenty twenty election? And was your Senate election in twenty twenty four rigged and stolen from you? As Charlie.
Chris Vance: Yeah. we're coming here to the end of this segment of the podcast, but it's not surprising that Michigan's competitive. It is surprising that Texas is competitive. Merrill, give us
Chuck Brown: Yeah.
Chris Vance: our weekly Texas update.
Merrill Matthews: Well the polls still have favored James Talarico, depending upon which poll, by two to three points. Interestingly, a new poll out shows that Gina He knowosa, the Democratic candidate for governor, in one poll is actually leading Greg Abbott, and the other poll Greg Abbott's leading. I'd be surprised if Hinahosa could pull that up. But I'll tell you, in the 2018 race where Ted Cruz barely beat Beto O'Rourke, Beto O'Rourke never led in the polls. And in this case, James Tolerico has consistently led in the polls, so much So that Republicans have put in $60 million here in the last week to try to save Ken Paxton. That's $60 million that could have gone other places to help Republicans in tight races. They are now trying to pull out Ken Paxton, and it's not clear they're going to win with that.
Chris Vance: Wow. So okay, so gentlemen, thank you. one last thought on the upcoming midterms, you we're s we're still a few weeks out, so nothing's certain. But you can look at the basic battleground and the Republicans have basically conceded the normally swing states in terms of Senate elections, Georgia, North Carolina. Instead,
Merrill Matthews: Mm-hmm.
Chris Vance: they're left defending bright red states, Ohio. Iowa, Nebraska, Alaska, Texas. That's how bad things are for Republicans right now, and there's only one reason for it. The Republican Party has deviated from proven core conservative policies at work and tanked the economy and that's why they're in trouble and that's what they've got to get away from. Guys, thank you. So Chuck, reserve the time. Let's have you back next week to talk to your friend Dave Trot. Merrill,
Chuck Brown: Delighted.
Chris Vance: thank you. And this podcast will be back in just a moment with a interview with one of the most dynamic, smart guys in our movement, Michael Steele. Lynn Schmidt, our Missouri Chair, and I are joined by a very special guest. He doesn't even feel like a guest, he's a member of the family. Michael Steele, the host of Weeknight MS Now. Before that, the Lieutenant Governor of Maryland, the chairman of the Maryland Republican Party, which manned him made him a member of the Republican National Committee when I was a young chairman of the Washington State Republican Party. And
Michael Steele: Yeah.
Chris Vance: us and as Michael will tell you, state chairs are the ones that actually do all the work in the RNC s so we we'd hang out a
Michael Steele: Yes.
Chris Vance: bit. and one of the thirty four founding members of our Republican legacy and, you know, maybe maybe the most powerful and articulate voice in in our movement. So Michael, thank you for joining us. Lynn?
Michael Steele: Thank you very much, Chris. It's so good to be with you. Lynn, it's so good to see you and thank you for stepping up in your leadership. It means a lot at the grassroots level to have everyday Republicans who understand the core principles of what makes us, an important part of the American story. you know, things we value. it's very important to see you out there and hit both of you. Chris and I go way back.
Chris Vance: Hm.
Michael Steele: We have a lot of stories we can share about the heyday of RNC activities, but we're in a different time and it's just great to have ORL out there on the front lines.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah, so Michael, thank you for joining our Republican Legacies
Michael Steele: Mm-hmm.
Lynn Schmidt: podcast. the ORL leadership includes Senator John Dampforth, Governor Mark Roscoe, Congresswoman Barbara Comstock, and Congressman Charlie Dent. And you've known these leaders through Republican politics and you've also interviewed several of them on the weeknight. What connects this particular group of Republicans?
Michael Steele: I think it's the idea of freedom. fact that, look, I've always styled myself and defined myself as a Lincoln Republican. And I think the individuals that you just mentioned do the same. And what does that mean? It's a little bit different for each of us because we all came to the party in different ways. I grew up in Washington, D.C. So I did not grow up in a Republican company town. I was not a young Republican, a college Republican or a teenage Republican. I grew up amongst Democrats and identified as a Republican because I believe fundamentally in what Lincoln and the party that broke from the wigs that became the Republican party stood for. And that was the individual freedom of every person under our constitution. At the end of the day, it's not what particular law is passed or what policy is approved, it is that you stand for the rights, liberties and freedoms of individuals to choose their own course to make their American dream. And I think fundamentally that's where the party started. I think it's what the party has strayed away from. you know, someone like a Barbara Comstock and others are in the fight now to pull that back in front of us, to make that part of the conversation again, to get us off of this abusive cycle, almost a self-abuse cycle of kowtowing to the whims of one individual who is neither Republican, certainly not formed in the fashion of Lincoln, and I think represents a greater danger to our country, ideologically and philosophically, where it's not about one for all and all for one, it's just about one.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: And the party has never really stood for that until now. And so these voices are very, very important to level up at this time. And I think it's something as Chris can tell you, and I just have to give just a moment folks, just to say, I don't know how much, you probably don't because you don't see the nook and crannies in the back room conversations and the going into the corner to try to dig out a pathway that Chris Vance has done in his leadership as the executive director of ORL. It is that kind of tenacity, that kind of fortitude and vision, which he had from the very beginning. And then Chris can tell you, there were a lot of folks when we first started this conversation three years ago who were not buying what Chris was selling.
Chris Vance: Ha
Michael Steele: And
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: that was, let's refocus on the things that matter to the American people. And at the core of that is their freedom. And those, five pillars of our Republican legacy is the foundation on which that freedom stands. so having leaders out there, Charlie Dent and others, as you mentioned, is an important step forward in elevating the ideal of Lincoln around the modern concept of not just Republicanism and its legacy, but what it will mean to the country in the future.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm. Well, I I appreciate your kind words, sir. if I'll give myself credit for anything, it's that I think I saw something that I'm very surprised nor most people haven't realized and maybe are just now waking up to, and that is elections decide everything.
Michael Steele: Yes
Chris Vance: And there's g and and there's gonna
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Chris Vance: be all is not lost. I mean, people have been sitting around, my god, what can we do? The party is lost forever. There is no forever in politics. And there's gonna be an election in twenty twenty eight, and Donald Trump will not be the Republican nominee, and that changes everything. And and ORL understands that and is focused on that. And this last week, Lynn helped make some news on our little podcast when she
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Chris Vance: got Don Bacon to say that. That he is considering running for president. we're pretty excited about that. right off the top, what's your reaction? I mean, about Don Bacon putting openly saying he's thinking of running for president.
Michael Steele: You know, I think it's important. I think it's great. I very much like Don Bacon. I know we tried to get him on my show a number of times, and that didn't work out. because I believe his voice in the conversation that he brings us to is an important one. And I think the idea of someone like Don Bacon being the bearer of a forward-looking Republican Party, not a Republican Party that's trying to recreate Reaganism, not a Republican Party that's trying to rebrand from Trumpism, but a Republican Party that is fully focused on an America that looks like the three of us, right?
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: An America that comes from the various backgrounds that we represent and so many others. that is not afraid of America's future, not afraid of the direction the American people are taking the country through its diversity, through its opportunity, through its equity, through its inclusion, through its ability to recognize that our strength has always been when we come together, not when we stand in tribal corners looking desperately at the other as the other or the enemy.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: So a voice like Bacon's, I think it's going to be very, important. I do want to caution because I am also a realist and somewhat of a student of Donald Trump, having worked with him in the past and having observed him and dealt with his administrations over the last number of years is that I do not discount nor should we discount Donald Trump having a play in the 2028 cycle.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: I do, you know, I think that there is a desperation about a man who understands that he is a convicted felon. He has 34 counts outstanding in the state of New York, which he has to account for. So it does not bode well for him to just leave office. There's a reason why he's building all these monuments to himself in this town. There's a reason why he tore up the East Wing to expand a bunker, which was already there. I see Donald Trump being desperate and dangerous. As we get closer to 2028, he is not going to anoint his vice president, nor Marco Rubio, as his successor. It is not in his DNA to
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: put himself second to someone. So I think the country needs to be ready for that. And I think individuals like Don Bacon and others need to be ready for that. This is going to be a test of their ability to stand. stand strong, stand erect in the face of what Donald Trump represents and recognize that if you want to be the titular head of this party, you're gonna have to act like it. And so I'm waiting. I'm waiting to see who does that because right now no one has. No one in my estimation has shown themselves capable of doing that or willing to do that. And so that's what is exciting. about this period, also for me very, very cautious, makes me very cautious because I'm waiting for that individual to say enough, follow me.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah. So if you were advising Bacon or another constitutional conservative contemplating twenty twenty eight, what would you tell that person to begin doing today?
Michael Steele: Distinguish yourself from the crazy that's happening right now. I just don't understand what we're doing. I mean, we just witnessed the midterm convention crazy. I don't even know what that was, why we did that. It was very telling that significant candidates did not participate in that. Who's going to lead? Who's going to pull all of these pieces together? Pull that base together. Look, our base has been angry since Ronald Reagan left office. And no one has the brain power, I still haven't figured out why, to figure that out. All
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Michael Steele: right, we've never resolved that. When Reagan left, the biggest question around town and around the country is who's the next Reagan? Well, okay, we got to stop looking for Reagan.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Michael Steele: Right? So who then is going to emerge and say, I'm the kind of leader we need right now in this moment. I don't need another Donald Trump. I don't need a MAGA knockoff. I need someone to stand in space and look the country in the eye and go, folks, we have just experienced the longest weekend at Bernie's in the history of mankind.
Chris Vance: Ha ha ha.
Michael Steele: All right? And it's time for us now to go to work. It's Monday morning in America, right?
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: It's time to go to work. We need to reinvest in our farmers. We need to reinvest in our manufacturing sector. We are having our asses handed to us by China, right? We need to reestablish ourselves on the global stage. Our allies are our partners, they're not our enemies. They're not people that we can make money off of. We're not gonna negotiate a deal. We're going to transition the country and the world onto a better platform because it's gotten less safe and more dangerous. So how do we do that? How do we push that narrative out there? I don't need Reagan. I need leaders.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: I don't need Bush. I need a leader. I need you to be authentically you and just share that story, your story and how that connects to me and my small business. I'm trying to feed my family. I'm trying to raise my kids. What about the education? What about, you know, the history of the country? I'm not going to, I can't look America in the eye and go black people, you over there, Hispanics, you over there, white folks. I can't do that. We got to figure out how we all pull together to make the country stronger. And so that's the starting point for me. When
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Michael Steele: you break away from the current narrative and say, now it's time for something different. It's time for something better.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Chris Vance: Right. So I'll tell you there are two things that made me very excited with the Bacon announcement hint and
Michael Steele: Mm-hmm.
Chris Vance: podcast. Number one, it confirms something I believed was true and I'm hearing, is that the Republican establishment, I mean our folks, people who have not joined us on the front lines, but
Michael Steele: Right.
Chris Vance: agree with us. They recognize that there was no way to take this party back from Donald Trump in twenty twenty or twenty four. But they know they're they're getting geared up for a fight. in twenty eight. And that's cr people've gotta understand that. I cannot look you in the eye and tell you that we are going to win in twenty eight. But for the first time since twenty sixteen there's gonna be a fight for control of this party. The second thing is Don Bacon may or may not be the eventual nominee, but this guy is fearless. He is absolutely fearless. He has stood up against the MAGA machine over and over again. he's you know, he's won primary elections when they when the state chair of his party censured him. and if you listen to him on the podcast, he is absolutely fearless. And I think it's very hard for MAGA to question his patriotism or devotion to this country. And he's spent thirty years in uniform as a brigadier general in the Air Force. and I think we're about to see once we get past the midterms, the conversation in our party change dramatically. What now I'm way out here in Seattle. You're in you're in the heart of it back there, Michael. What what are you hearing in Washington?
Lynn Schmidt: And I'm in the middle between the two of you.
Michael Steele: Yeah, you are.
Chris Vance: Yeah.
Michael Steele: So not much. I don't think right now there is much stock being put into individuals like Don Bacon, not because they don't have stock to invest in, but rather because they aren't focused on that right now. I think that bell will ring. the Wednesday morning, November 4th, after the elections. Now, some of that's going to be contingent on the degree to which Donald Trump and his abuse of the electoral system is still in play. You know, they've already given us a lot of warning signs and set off enough alarm bells with three times, three attempts to get the Supreme Court to... interfere with our national elections. So we'll see how that storyline plays out. But I think what will emerge will be those voices. Now, Bacon is one of the first out of the gate. That will be good for Don to sort of set the tone in the stage, if you will. That would be me. If I did it, it would be like, OK. Now, game on, baby. Let's do this, right? But I want to go back to something you said, Chris, because I think it's important. You know. You have a lot more faith in Republicans, individual Republican leaders, and I put that in air quotes for those who are listening to this, than I do. I watched 15 individuals stand on a stage in 2016 and get their asses handed to them by Donald Trump and not one of them defended themselves against the man who talked about their family, their wives, their children. I don't know if that will be the play again. Because I think MAGA will come after whoever this individuals or individuals are that begin to emerge outside of the MAGA space. think the system is designed, which is why when I was national chairman, I actually wanted to scale back or at least, if not eliminate our primary system. Because I think it's destructive, to be honest, the way it's currently structured. It gives way too much weight to 12 % of the voting population to decide who the nominee of the party is. So that means a couple of things. Folks need to get off their ass and get in the game in a primary. You don't like the outcome, then damn it, vote. Hello, not complicated. Go vote.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Michael Steele: So when you've got 12 to 20 % of all Republicans in your state, or all Republicans in the congressional district voting, you're going to get a 12 % outcome, right? So that's the first part of this. so I'm curious to see when the bullets come, when the firestorm begins, how these individuals stand up to it, or do they capitulate because the system, the primary system is going to force them to bend towards the will of MAGA as opposed to the will of Republicans to get through that system and more broadly, the will of the American people to give us
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Michael Steele: a different kind of new leadership. So that's gonna be a big first test when the primary season for the presidency gets underway, whether or not these folks will stand tall enough when they come under the assault because The Republican base is more than MAGA. It just is.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Absolutely right.
Lynn Schmidt: seeing that in my home state of Missouri, which is the show me state. if if you're paying attention to the news this week, you know there's a gerrymandering case that
Michael Steele: Right.
Lynn Schmidt: Justice Kavanaugh rejected saying we have to go use the old maps in November. And then a district court judge just said, no, we're we're not doing that. So We're still in the midst of it, but it was very interesting in our primary elections that the mega candidates lost and there were a few ballot initiatives that were pushed by the very mega wing of the Republican Party and those were defeated by eighty percent. I mean, I think we're leading the pack here.
Michael Steele: Yeah, hear what you're saying, Lynn, but let's be clear, ballot initiatives and court cases are not individual standing up, pushing in that direction. Pardon
Lynn Schmidt: Sure. Well, the MAGA candidates also lost. Yeah.
Michael Steele: me?
Lynn Schmidt: Candidates lost, mega candidates lost as well.
Michael Steele: Yeah, and that's a good and positive sign. But again,
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: it is one thing when it is localized like that versus now. I've got to not just worry about MAGAs in Missouri. I got to worry about MAGA all over the place.
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Michael Steele: And so how you ground yourself as a candidate becomes incredibly important. and sitting down with your team and having them understand. And this is going to be the lesson for Don Bacon out of the gate. look, I'm happy to make myself available to Mr. Bacon if he wants to have a conversation, because I know a little bit about these things, having advised
Lynn Schmidt: Mm-hmm.
Chris Vance: Ha
Michael Steele: about four presidential candidates over the years and certainly won a few races nationally. I think that you've got to One of my favorite Shakespearean phrases is, you know, he's got to screw his courage to the sticking post,
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Michael Steele: as Madame Macbeth would tell you. And I think it's important that that happened, that you find the courage to be president.
Chris Vance: Right. Hey, we
Lynn Schmidt: Yeah.
Chris Vance: are we're coming to the end of our time here. Before we do though, Michael, tell us about your show. There's something new now with MS Now. You're launching a membership program with a lot of benefits. We all love seeing you out there. what is this new program and w how can people avail themselves of it?
Michael Steele: Well, it's a lot of fun actually. And I really have to give credit to our team that sort of thought through this idea of it's a lot of what we've been talking about. How do we connect to the communities that watch us? How do we connect to the people that listen to us, who read us online? And so MS Now has launched, you know, it's efforts is what they call DTC direct to consumer membership. where you can join up by going to MSDow.com and going on and watching and listening to your host, your favorite host. Every Thursday at noon, I do a live feed, you know, in the chair, in the corner with the chairman. You can kind of sit in a little space and we talk and you ask questions. And I answer those questions live for you about everything. You know me, I'm not afraid to take on a question because Lord knows I've been in enough rooms where they've thrown stuff at me. But it's really designed to sort of connect what you see on TV to a bigger, a greater experience. So we're going to be, we were in Dallas, for example, for the RNC event and did a live show there. And we're going to be back in Dallas on September 26th for our big community event there. And so people can just go check that out and certainly watch me every night at 7 p.m. Eastern on the weeknight with my co-host, Simone Sanders Townsend and Luke Russert. And there's really kind of, I think have a different kind of experience. where there's a little bit more connectivity through the digital age, if you will.
Chris Vance: Mm-hmm.
Michael Steele: It's not just the sort of cable television, but we're looking at something more broad and certainly something much more community oriented. So it's a lot of fun.
Chris Vance: That's great. That is fantastic.
Lynn Schmidt: Great.
Chris Vance: We are glad though that your MS now duties don't prevent you from helping us with
Lynn Schmidt: Mm-hmm.
Chris Vance: ORL because we could not do without you, sir. the organization that you helped found is growing. We're over thirteen thousand names now nationwide, thirty state chairs
Michael Steele: I love it.
Chris Vance: and growing. and and things are happening. So thank you, folks. if you enjoy our content again, please go to our Republican Legacy dot com. We're not a pack. We don't exist to make money, but we always need money. Everybody needs money. And you make
Lynn Schmidt: Ha ha.
Chris Vance: a small donation, that'd be great. sign up to join our national committee. As I said earlier, we really need state chairs in the two other early states, Iowa and Nevada. So if you'd like to assume that role, that'd be great. And keep watching this podcast wherever you get your podcast. One more time, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Lynn, thank you.
Lynn Schmidt: Yes, thank you, Michael.
Michael Steele: Thank you.
Chris Vance: You bet we'll be back next week.
Lynn Schmidt: Thanks.
