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Well, you know, Hamlin, I'm so excited that you're here with me today.
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Thanks for having me.
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Yeah, for sure.
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And you know, I've probably already told you this so many times, but I'll say it again.
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Uh, when I met you a couple months ago, that was the first time I did something like that.
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Going up to someone at a conference, and of course I go up to people and say, Oh, you did a great talk, but to basically ask you out on a date, I've never done that.
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I don't make a habit of doing that.
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But to say, like, hey, I was really intrigued.
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We kind of intersect in our careers and our interests.
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You're local to Birmingham, I'm local to Birmingham.
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Can we basically continue this conversation over coffee?
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And honestly, I'll be honest with you, I didn't know if you were giving me a fake email, you know, like, oh, I'm gonna tell her H O instead of H A or something like that, and just, you know, I'm blowing smoke.
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I didn't know, but I was like, you know what?
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I'm committed, I'm gonna go for it, I'm gonna email him, and then you email back, you name the time and the place, and here we are today.
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Here we are.
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Yeah, so thank you so much.
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And honestly, I don't think you know just how impactful that was.
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And because honestly, I feel like I struggle with formal networking.
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I can meet someone in the grocery store and we can just talk and hit it off, like on the aisle getting mayo.
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But when I go into like that conference space or that professional space, I don't know if I feel like I'm bothering someone or I'm gonna fumble my words.
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And so that was a little bit of Quinta coming out of her shell.
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So thank you so much for obliging me in that.
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Now tell me, do you do that often or was that the first time that happened to you?
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Well, I want to say thank you also, Quinta, because as you know, as you probably remember, you know, that was a smaller crowd for that panel that where we first met.
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And it might have been, you know, it maybe that was your first time to do that, like you said.
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But um, first of all, it felt very natural.
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Like it seemed like you were the type of person who sees those opportunities all the time at different events or you know, conferences, networking opportunities.
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And then from the speaker standpoint, um, it was really great to have someone like you in the audience because you could tell you were engaged the whole time and and body language says so much when you're up on a stage and speaking or in a panel, you know, sitting down with other panelists, and just to have, you know, there were what, probably five or six people in that room.
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So it was a very small crowd, but just to have, you know, one person like you in the audience who was very engaged and then made a point to come up afterwards and say a few nice words, and then we connected from there, like that makes a big difference on me as a speaker or a panelist to know that, you know, that was worth my time too, even if it was one person who I connected with and maybe made a difference.
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And then since then we've stayed in touch, and that was what, six months ago.
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Um, and I think that's a good point about networking and just like putting yourself out there.
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It's not always a quantity game.
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Sometimes it's I think it's more quality over quantity and going deep and narrow versus shallow and wide.
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So that was a great example of you know, me showing up to speak on a panel.
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I had no idea what I was walking into.
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It was a smaller room than I probably expected and smaller crowd, but we came, we both came away with it with a new connection in each other and then have since you know stayed in touch.
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I think that's the the beauty of the quality over quantity game sometimes when it comes to networking.
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Welcome to the Quintessential Pod, where career conversations get real.
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Come on, sit down, and let's talk about it.
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To bring this kind of all together and to get started, when people hear networking, they picture those awkward events or being at conferences and exchanging business cards.
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But when you hear it, what do you think about?
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Yeah, that's a good question.
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I I feel like networking is just such a um, we need to like rebrand the word networking because it has such a stuffy corporate feeling to it.
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And to me, it's really about finding common ground and just finding like one thing that you have in common to connect with somebody about.
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Um, and it doesn't have to be a formal, buttoned-up, salesy conversation or uh, you know, awkward handshake or an aggressive exchange of business cards.
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I think it's really just finding something you have in common.
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It's just like talking to someone on the street or meeting somebody at a coffee shop or on a date or at a social, you know, it's just like you kind of build some commonalities, you have some chemistry with someone early on, and then you see where the relationship goes.
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So I think it's really just about finding that common ground early on and kind of being open to whatever that might, wherever that might lead you.
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You've given me some homework.
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I now have to rebrand the word networking.
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Let's make it a thing.
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Yeah, I'm going to set out on a quest.
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I already see a t-shirt and a sweatshirt, but I don't know what it says.
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But I'm gonna rebrand networking.
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Let's do it, yeah.
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Yeah.
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But you know, that actually taps into something I was just going to ask you.
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Um, for me, I feel like networking is throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.
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And you know, I think I told you this when we met for coffee that I had looked at the um the bulletin to see who I was gonna be speaking.
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And Helen, your name was not on there because you were originally not set to speak that day.
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And so um, so that you and I meeting and being in the same place was so random and honestly was not supposed to happen.
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But I had done my homework of like, oh, I want to meet with this person from this university and this person from this job and all the things.
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And so it really was just by chance that you and I had something in common with our similar interest in communication and then, of course, sport as well as my kind of my third research interest.
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Um And I think you already asked this, answered this question without knowing it, but I'll allow you to elaborate if you want.
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Why does networking kind of feel like throwing spaghetti at the wall and just feel like so uncertain um for some people?
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I think because so many people do it wrong or do it in kind of a cringy, desperate way, that it gives, you know, the rest of us who are trying to go about it the right way, maybe a bad rap or a bad taste of like what networking is, because it means so many different things to so many different people.
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But I think if you approach it um in a way that you approach building social relationships, whether personal or professional, that's true to you and not try to force yourself to be way more extroverted than you are naturally.
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It's easy to tell, you know, when people I think it's it's healthy to stretch a little bit because all of us at our comfort zone are probably not gonna present the same way we would at a networking event rather than like the way we interact with our friends.
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So I think it's important to stretch a little bit, but also find find that good balance between like what feels natural to you and your personality style, where you're stretching a little bit and going, you know, into a place that's slightly out of your comfort zone, but you're not like presenting a completely different identity.
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So I think a lot of it is just like having the self-awareness to know like what environments are you best in.
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Is it a small group?
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Is it a big group?
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Do you want to go deep and narrow with a few people and leave with maybe two or three meaningful conversations or business cards?
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Or are you casting a wider net and just trying to play the percentage or the quantity game?
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And it again, it depends like just on that level of self-awareness and knowing like the type of atmosphere and chemistry that really that you can thrive on.
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And Hamlin, I'll pause here because I didn't even introduce you.
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Um, so you work at a local um PR and communications firm local to Birmingham, and you're the director of strategy.
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So for everyone, this is Hanlin.
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So sorry.
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No problem.
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But with that though, I think, and this reminds me of a conversation that I've had on another episode of the podcast.
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I think also one of the reasons that networking feels so awkward is because people are up against an imaginary clock.
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So they find a job and then they're thinking, oh my gosh, I have to be one of the first 10 applicants because they're gonna, you know, pull out the people first.
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So I applied for this job.
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Now let me search for Hanlon, send him a connection and say, Hey, Hanlon, I applied for this job.
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Put in a good word for me, or whatever they say, right?
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And so I think sometimes that takes some of the authenticity and the genuineness away because people are trying to write and type in a way that's going to land them the response, which may not be natural to who they are.
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And so it's just so complex and so many nuances that go into this um this networking space.
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And I think um that's why I'm being very conscious, just to build my network in general.
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So I'm already connected with people.
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So when I do reach out to them, it's not like, hey, I'm only reaching out because I want you to pull my application, but maybe I'm already top of mind when an opportunity presents itself.
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Yeah, for sure.
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I think you bring up a really good point.
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And this is um, this is a phrase that we heard at an event last year that our firm hosted.
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Uh, it was a panel discussion on the legislative session, and we had a panelist who talked about the importance of building relationships, especially in the public affairs and public relations world.
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But the way he said it was you need to start building the bridge before you need to cross it.
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And that was just like such a, and you said it yourself, you know, less explicitly than that, but in a different way.
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And it's so important to start building those relationships early on without a specific ask.
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And I think one thing that I that is feels natural to me as uh someone who works in PR and as a storyteller, both, you know, in my full-time profession, and then also I do some freelance writing and journalism work on the side.
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And I think just approaching networking and relationship building with a sense of curiosity and coming in and asking questions authentically and like genuinely being curious about who you're talking to, what their career journey is, what they're interested in personally.
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And that can take you, I think, so many other places further than coming in with a specific agenda or an end goal, because you know, I've also interviewed several people, so many people over the years at our firm and you and met people at networking events who are very eager on the job hunt.
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And you can really tell, I think, the people who are genuinely curious and interested in in me or our firm, and then the ones who are just trying to, you know, rise to the top of an applicant pool and and kind of get in and get out.
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And that was one thing that I think struck me with you two.
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You've had a very organic um sense of curiosity and just a natural, just like a natural kind of chemistry earlier on.
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I could tell that you weren't really like, you know, in it for the wrong reasons.
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And I think that also gave me sort of a good green light early on and a gut read about you, and and that's why we've continued to stay in touch, just because it felt very natural and curious from the get-go.
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So that can take you a long way, I think.
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Yeah.
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And just for context, for those listening, um, one of the reasons that I've been growing my network is largely because uh my husband and I were newer to Birmingham.
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And so we had established networks in Tuscaloosa, but we're, you know, growing this very organically being here in Birmingham.
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But then also, I'm not necessarily at a crossroads in my career, but I was also on the cusp of finishing my doctoral program.
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And so just wanting to be in conversation with like-minded people, and even if we're not talking daily, but um reading your post that you're posting on LinkedIn and just even and with you, because I'm not looking for a job at your firm, but we were able to establish connections and you were throwing out names to me of like, oh, add this person to your network and do you know her?
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And she went to this university and you, you know, invited me to a PRSA meeting.
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And so it's just like maybe I don't need anything directly from you, but because we were able to establish a connection, you put me in contact with more people that I can are familiar faces when I do go into these rooms.
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So it's not always about, like you said, rising to the top of the applicant pool.
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Yeah, well said.
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And I think, you know, like you, like you mentioned, like we've both since opened doors for each other.
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Like I'm on this podcast talking with you about it now, and we found we found that common ground early on and and then have since been able to kind of be on the lookout for each other.
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So I think that's so important just to build it the right way from the ground up and then again being open to wherever it might lead.
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Yeah, for sure, for sure.
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And so you I know you related it back to me, but I would love for you to maybe give another example.
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Um, when someone might reach out to you randomly on LinkedIn or another social media site, what stands out to you to make you say, you know what, I'm actually gonna help that person.
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I'm actually gonna entertain a conversation with them.
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Yeah, that's a good question.
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I think it's very easy to tell.
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And, you know, we get a lot of cold emails and and, you know, of course, AI these days, like everyone is getting spammed with just generic AI bot type emails.
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Um, it's really easy to tell when someone has done their homework and maybe it's a student who's interested in in having like an informational interview or coffee and just like the way that you approach someone, whether it's in person or the follow-up afterwards, which I think is even like more important.
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Another thing that worked really well for you or for both of us to reconnect is that follow-up piece afterwards.
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But I think you can tell like it's just a couple of subtle things.
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Maybe they've read your bio and mentioned something about, you know, a project you work on, or maybe you're from the same hometown or went to the same high school, or just little things like that that you can drop in a first email or message and just already you kind of like have broken through the barrier of so many other bad emails that that come that we all get.
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So I think just like taking an extra few minutes to do some homework, look at the look at their LinkedIn.
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Look, have they been mentioned in social media or in any news coverage, or do they have any fun hobbies or side hustles?
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So there's so many things that you can do to be ahead of the game even before you reach out to that person for the first time.
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Yeah.
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And you know what?
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That's good perspective that I had not thought about to be on the receiving end of some of those code emails or random messages, if you're almost sitting there getting ready to type a response if it feels inorganic or not um authentic, you almost don't know how to respond.
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Like, how do I even craft this in a way that you can even show your own personality or you're even comfortable because it's like, wait, this random person, they just want me to send their resume on to the next person, which I know people do that, but if you're getting inundated with things, it's kind of that's a barrier in itself.
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So also for those of us who may send cold emails or we're just you know throwing the spaghetti at the wall to see who sticks, we have to also be mindful who's on the other end of that receiving message and like they're human as as well.
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So that's good perspective I had not thought about.
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Yeah, and you bring up a really good point too, is like we're all human.
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So I think going back to what you said about networking, it can be really intimidating to go up and speak to a speaker or let's say someone who's like a public figure or a keynote speaker at a big event, but you have to remember everyone is human and like we've all we've all been there before, whether or not you're on the the audience end or the speaker end, or people a lot of people know you or a lot of people don't.
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Um there's you know, we're all human and there's simple ways just to be human and genuinely curious and interested in people that can break down, you know, um job titles and experience levels and and level of fame or popularity.
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There's so many things that you can do to really present yourself authentically and and you know get the attention from the right person that might be a a game changer in your career or your personal life or whatever that looks like.
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Gotcha.
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And I guess conversely, on the other end of that, have you encountered any situations that have been off-putting and you're like, see, that's why I'm not gonna respond to this person?
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What's a red flag, if you will?
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Anyone who comes in like with too hard of an ask or too like, you know, too cold, like a cold sales pitch or someone who like wants to meet with you tomorrow or like doesn't really respect like the planning.
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And you know, I think anyone who comes in with like a sense of urgency that is like, you know, there's that saying it's like your um what is it?
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It's like your emergency, your sense of urgency is not, you know, is not my emergency or whatever, like poor plan.
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It kind of reflects on poor planning and just kind of passing the buck.
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So I think it's just it's really easy to spot like a red flag versus a yellow versus a green when you're meeting someone for the first time, whether it's through email or in person.
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And then, you know, I'm I'm usually I'll have my I'm pretty intuitive and I'll have my guard up quickly or keep people at arm's length if it doesn't feel like it's it's happening for the right reasons.
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And I'm sure you probably feel the same way based on like interactions that you've had, whether you're on the the receiving or being on the receiving end of that too, I guess.
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Yeah, yeah, certainly.
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And so I would love to know, aside from the relationship you and I are cultivating, um, have you had any examples where it started with something small and it's led to maybe a long-standing, you know, kind of work relationship or you've been able to take a connection that you made and use it otherwise in your career?
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Yeah, I can think of a few examples.
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Um, you know, one when I first started out in the communications field, I started, you know, with a few unpaid internships.
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And I was um I was doing a little bit of soul searching.
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This was in my you know early to mid-20s, right after school.
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I wasn't really sure what I was a bit of a late bloomer in the communications field and wasn't really sure what I wanted to do.
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And I moved back home and was looking for some internships and just volunteer opportunities to get more plugged in and at different communications um organizations.
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And I emailed someone at Mobile Bay Keeper, which is where I ended up working for four years, who was on staff there and just asked if they needed any unpaid um internship or volunteer support for the summer.
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I was home and just wanted to get more tangible experience.
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And fortunately, she answered my email.
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Uh, Mary Catherine Cunningham, shout out if you're listening to this.
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Um, but she answered my email and she, you know, extended an internship offer.
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Of course, it was unpaid.
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So like it wasn't a super um difficult thing to say yes to, but I think that's part of the thing that you need to like make make it an easy yes for whatever the person is that you're reaching out to and meet them where they are.
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And I, you know, that was my best attempt at that of just, hey, I'm I'm here for the summer.
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I would love to help out um with an unpaid internship or volunteering opportunities.
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And then one thing led to another.
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I had a great summer interning there.
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Um, I got hired on part-time for the next few months, and then a full-time role opened up as communications coordinator.
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I was there for you know two and a half years in that role, and then eventually got hired on as communications director for the next two years.
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So I started as an unpaid intern and then um ended up you know leaving the organization as communications director.
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And again, that you know, it sounds like kind of a um a story.
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I don't know, it's maybe it sounds unrealistic a little bit or a little bit of a of a script because this all happened in about four years, four or five years, but you never know the power of just you know making um an easy yes to someone and then then being open to wherever that might lead.
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So I really like the easy yes perspective in nowadays because companies, whether big or small, they're all over social media, and of course their people are on LinkedIn.
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:18.559
And so it's very easy to find your if you do a little bit of research to kind of find your way in.
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:45.519
And what I think about that is especially for a small business, if you do need like that summer internship or you need something to do while you're in that transitional phase, and if you also are really into social media and content creating, reach out to that mom and pop and say, like, hey, um, I've noticed that your content is is really, really good and it's in line with the content I would like to do, but also I want to get more experience.
00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:50.559
Can I come on for a couple weeks and do some content creation for you for free?
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:53.599
And you never know what that may lead to.
00:19:53.759 --> 00:20:15.920
And so I think um in other conversations that I've had, I think now more than ever, especially for early career seekers or career pivot pivoters, um, we we have to be very um creative with some of the the ways that we're going about um, you know, getting our our foot in the door.
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:26.559
And you know, maybe it does start with you saying maybe an unpaid internship or unpaid opportunity, but that person actually may have some money in the budget.
00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:34.400
And so you going in with the easy yes of unpaid, but they were like, oh no, we actually do have money in the budget to give you a small stipend.
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:35.279
So you never know.
00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:39.920
So I think that's really good perspective with the automatic or the easy yes.
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:40.400
Yeah.
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:44.960
I think you just need to, you know, be a little creative on how you get in the door somewhere sometimes.
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:54.000
And then once you're in the door, like you're the the favor should be in your like the balls in your court, I think, to to impress and then go up above and beyond.
00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:59.039
But to me, the sometimes the hardest part is finding the in that where you can get inside.
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:07.039
And then once you're there, like you've got the whole, you've got so many more opportunities to impress and build that relationship and and have people get to know you.
00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:18.720
So but it's just again, it's it's being creative and being strategic about how you make that easy yes or present an easy yes to them because it's not always going to be something that is posted on their website or that's gonna be sent to you directly.
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:32.640
Sometimes you have to, you know, build something from scratch or present a cool idea and maybe it's unpaid to start out with, but I think that's so important of having kind of the the long the long willingness to play the long game and just like seeing the forest through the trees a little bit.
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:33.279
Yeah.
00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:46.319
So if you can remember back to that time, tell me where did you maybe get the idea or even the confidence from to reach out to the person to say, like, hey, do you have any unpaid opportunities available?
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:48.319
I would love to get into this space.
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:51.279
Well, I knew I wanted to get some nonprofit experience.
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:55.039
And at that point, I hadn't had any nonprofit internship experience.
00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:59.759
And everything I had heard was, you know, nonprofits are and they are definitely, I can attest.
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:05.359
So that's a great way to roll up your sleeves and get a lot of experience in a short amount of time.
00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:07.440
And I was back home in Mobile.
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:15.200
This was an organization that, um, as Mobile Bay Keeper said, they're protecting the local waterways and you know, um, the Mobile Bay watershed.
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:20.319
So all the rivers and creeks and the bay around there, that was something that was very passionate, that I was very passionate about.
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:21.680
I grew up spending time in the water.
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:26.799
So, you know, all the stars kind of aligned for me to um focus in on that organization.
00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:28.880
And, you know, some of it was luck, of course.
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:33.359
Like I think I got lucky that I knew someone who worked there, but again, that was leveraging your network.
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:34.640
It was a looser tie.
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:38.400
She was a more distant connection, but I just kind of like just went for it.
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:40.079
And then one thing led to another.
00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:56.799
But again, I think it's like knowing it goes back to that self-awareness of like knowing what you can bring to the table, knowing what experiences you want to get, and then also having that long-range view of like, okay, this isn't gonna happen overnight, but if I do X, Y, and Z, maybe in you know, two to five years from now, I'll be where I want to go.
00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:59.440
So that was really my thinking at that time.
00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:03.279
I was I was 24, I was not like a spring chicken fresh out of college.
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:08.640
You know, we've talked about this offline too, about just kind of the the age game and feeling like you might be a little bit behind.
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:14.480
But I think if you go about it the right way, you know, you can certainly sort of counter the the age stereotype coming out of school.
00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:14.960
Yeah.
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:17.839
And you know, I think that's something too.
00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:21.839
Um maybe people have to get out of their own heads and just go for it.
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:28.720
Because at the end of the day, the worst thing that they can do is say no or ignore you, but just going for the opportunity.
00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:42.960
And we were actually talking with someone earlier who said that sometimes people have uh uh an issue with asking for something because they feel like it's just but they don't want to feel like it's just being handed to them.
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:50.400
And so just breaking down that barrier, getting out of your own head and just putting yourself out there and going for it.
00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:53.440
And so obviously it certainly paid off for you.
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:56.880
Yeah, and like you said, the worst thing they can do is ignore or say no.
00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:58.720
So, like, no skin off of our back.
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:03.599
Like you you did you put your best foot forward, and if they say no, then there's nothing you can do about it, you know.
00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:04.319
So Yeah.
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:13.200
And I know you have so many people probably in your network and that you meet so many people in your travels and even probably just walking downtown and things like that.
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:22.720
But how do you stay connected with people, even when you don't necessarily need something from them in your career or at the time being?
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:40.559
I think a lot of it comes down to, you know, reading the room and like reading your network and and also just showing up because I think the, you know, some of the little like just overlooking the basics can be or not overlooking the basics is such an important strategy for relationship building.
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:44.799
You know, when you show up, you're already up one zero on the day or on the week.
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:51.440
So something as simple as like, oh, let me let me go to this networking event at Innovation Depot, or let me go check out this PRSA lunch.
00:24:51.599 --> 00:25:04.960
You might not know who's gonna be there, but chances are like if you're semi-plugged into that group or industry, you might have a few mutual connections, or you leave with a few new contacts and then figure out ways to strategically keep in touch with them.
00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:15.440
Maybe it's as simple as you know, sending them a congratulations note on LinkedIn if they have a promotion or a milestone, or you know, see their birthday on Facebook and sending them like a nice thank you note.
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:26.480
And I think the thank you note is such an an overlook or an undervalued thing today because who doesn't love getting like a surprise handwritten um invitation or message in the mail?
00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:36.480
Like we're so inundated with text messages and and notifications and emails that a good old-fashioned like package in the mail or a nice short note, like that can go such a long way too.
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:42.880
So I think it's just like thinking outside the box and being aware of like what's happening with the people in your personal and professional network.
00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:58.400
Yeah, and you know, even with you inviting me to the PRSA meeting, which is something I'm not professionally connected to yet, but obviously in that space because of my PR background, and that built in a way for us to stay connected.
00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:05.039
You weren't even at that one meeting due to other obligations, but I was able to tell you how it went afterward.
00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:20.880
But I also connected with the speaker that day on LinkedIn, and I don't even need anything from her, but because of the work that she does, almost daily she's posting some kind of nugget, and I'm able to take that, you know, with me.
00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:23.039
And should I bump into her again?
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:29.200
And we've actually swapped messages on LinkedIn since then, and PRSA was that common thread.
00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:35.680
So um the the small things matter, and you know, not overlooking the small steps, like you said.
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:37.920
So it really does go a long way.
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:44.720
And consistency too, like you said, it's like the the you know, little little doses here and there at can add up to quite a bit.
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:49.039
So I think just the consistency and reputation repetition is really important as well.
00:26:50.079 --> 00:26:59.359
So what is maybe a networking myth you think people believe in or they try to live by, but you wish they would stop?
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:02.559
A networking myth, that's a good question.
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:08.960
Um well, I think it goes back to the the quality over quantity thing that I talked about earlier.
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:10.799
It's not always a numbers game.
00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:26.000
And I think um you might go to a conference with thousands of people and think you're gonna come back with all these leads or contacts or interview, you know, interview opportunities, but the sometimes like the best opportunities can come up in the most unlikely ways.
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:39.359
And for me, like having attended many conferences in the past, I've found the most like the best networking to happen away from the sessions and away from the kind of the eight to five when you get to spend time with people in a more casual setting.
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:55.200
Maybe it's uh a restaurant or a bar or whatever the group activity is at night, and just kind of away from the the confines of the stuffy networking where you know you're you have like a 15-minute break to go get a coffee and try and hand out as many business cards as you can between before the next speaker.
00:27:55.440 --> 00:28:15.359
But often, you know, for me it's it's been more effective when I can connect with people in a smaller group setting in a more casual environment where maybe you're sharing a common interest or hobby or you know, over dinner or a drink or a coffee, and people, you know, have their work guard down a little bit more and are are kind of more in that relaxing social setting.
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:21.279
So I think like the best networking doesn't really happen during like built-in times for networking.
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:23.680
It happens like unexpectedly, at least from my experience.
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:27.039
That's good perspective because I won't lie to you, Hanlin.
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:30.880
I don't know if it's because the past few years I've been juggling so many things at once.
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:37.440
So when I go to a conference, I'm like, okay, it's five o'clock, the session's over, I'm gonna get food and I'm going back to my room.
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:40.720
And so it's like, uh no, Quincy, you've been missing it.
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:49.680
But it actually makes so much sense because, you know, there's this saying that the decisions aren't made in the meetings, they're made either before or after the meeting.
00:28:49.920 --> 00:29:15.839
And so if you apply that same logic to networking, and also even if it's a time during that conference space where you've had, you've you're able to sit all the things you learned in the breakout sessions to the side and you've, you know, refreshed yourself, and then you go to the happy hour or you go to dinner, you even are a little bit more comfortable and relaxed, and maybe can speak even just like more clearly and freely.
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:17.519
Um, so that makes sense.
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:20.319
So, see, that's why I got to keep you close, Helen.
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:21.920
I you're you're teaching me.
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:33.680
Well, conferences are, I mean, I totally get what you're saying about like we've all been at those conferences where it's information overload for the full day, and then you're exhausted, and then you have like a 30-minute break until the evening stuff starts.
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:42.640
And it's so tempting to want to go and just like chill in your hotel and get takeout and just like decompress, which you know, I've certainly done a few times here and there.
00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:56.880
But I think like the more you kind of like are just bought into the the full experience and just like showing up, again, showing up and walking into rooms where you don't know what's gonna happen or you don't know who you're gonna meet, and then you know, people are in that more relaxed environment.
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:01.839
I think the longer or the more ROI or benefit you'll get out of those um opportunities.
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:03.039
Yeah, for sure.
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:09.599
So for someone who's listening and like they live in this state of, am I doing this right?
00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:15.359
Um, as it relates to connections and networking, what's one thing you would want them to remember?
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:21.839
Well, A, we're gonna rebrand the term networking, I think, or we're on a we're on a mission to do that.
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:28.240
But I think, you know, B is just like what we talked about earlier of like networking looks different to everyone.
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:35.759
It's gotta it's gotta feel true to who you are, and you can't like force it upon people or do something that doesn't feel natural to you.
00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:51.119
Um, and then you know, another thing that I've found helpful is just kind of having like a short list of mentors, like potential mentors or people that you admire in your your industry or in your community, and a short list of those people who you would want to meet with one day.
00:30:51.200 --> 00:31:13.680
Maybe it's not gonna be tomorrow, but maybe it's over the next three months or the next year you would like to get in front of these people or people who are further along in your career than you and pick their brains on how they got to where they are, and then like figure out, okay, how can you make this work within my like the skills that I have, the environment that I have, um, and then sort of figure out how to map my way towards this person.
00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:24.319
So I think it's always good to have like people in your aspirational, like mentor community that you want to emulate and try and just like soak up and be a sponge from them as much as possible.
00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:26.480
Yeah, that that's really good.
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:30.319
Well, Hamlin, um, you have added so much context.
00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:34.799
If no one else gets anything from this episode, I certainly did.
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:37.839
And that goes back to quality over quantity.
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:40.480
And so I so appreciate your time.
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:47.039
I so appreciate your willingness, um, even from our very first coffee conversation until now.
00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:53.759
Uh, so cheers to us for continually forgering forging our connection um with each other.
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:58.880
So this has been another episode of the Quintessential Pod where career conversations get real.
00:31:59.119 --> 00:31:59.759
Thanks, Quinta.
00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:00.319
This has been great.
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:02.720
I love what you're doing with the pod, and this is a really nice studio.
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:07.200
So excited to see all the great content and the great stories that you uh that you produce.
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:07.920
Thank you.
00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:08.960
Thank you.
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.040
Well, you know, Hamlin, I'm so excited that you're here with me today.
00:00:03.439 --> 00:00:04.080
Thanks for having me.
00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:05.040
Yeah, for sure.
00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:10.000
And you know, I've probably already told you this so many times, but I'll say it again.
00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:15.119
Uh, when I met you a couple months ago, that was the first time I did something like that.
00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:25.039
Going up to someone at a conference, and of course I go up to people and say, Oh, you did a great talk, but to basically ask you out on a date, I've never done that.
00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:27.760
I don't make a habit of doing that.
00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:31.519
But to say, like, hey, I was really intrigued.
00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:34.960
We kind of intersect in our careers and our interests.
00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:38.240
You're local to Birmingham, I'm local to Birmingham.
00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:42.079
Can we basically continue this conversation over coffee?
00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:54.719
And honestly, I'll be honest with you, I didn't know if you were giving me a fake email, you know, like, oh, I'm gonna tell her H O instead of H A or something like that, and just, you know, I'm blowing smoke.
00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:56.240
I didn't know, but I was like, you know what?
00:00:56.320 --> 00:01:03.679
I'm committed, I'm gonna go for it, I'm gonna email him, and then you email back, you name the time and the place, and here we are today.
00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:04.400
Here we are.
00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:06.319
Yeah, so thank you so much.
00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:11.840
And honestly, I don't think you know just how impactful that was.
00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:18.480
And because honestly, I feel like I struggle with formal networking.
00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:25.200
I can meet someone in the grocery store and we can just talk and hit it off, like on the aisle getting mayo.
00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:34.000
But when I go into like that conference space or that professional space, I don't know if I feel like I'm bothering someone or I'm gonna fumble my words.
00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:37.760
And so that was a little bit of Quinta coming out of her shell.
00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:41.200
So thank you so much for obliging me in that.
00:01:41.359 --> 00:01:45.280
Now tell me, do you do that often or was that the first time that happened to you?
00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:53.200
Well, I want to say thank you also, Quinta, because as you know, as you probably remember, you know, that was a smaller crowd for that panel that where we first met.
00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.680
And it might have been, you know, it maybe that was your first time to do that, like you said.
00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:00.000
But um, first of all, it felt very natural.
00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:07.200
Like it seemed like you were the type of person who sees those opportunities all the time at different events or you know, conferences, networking opportunities.
00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:24.719
And then from the speaker standpoint, um, it was really great to have someone like you in the audience because you could tell you were engaged the whole time and and body language says so much when you're up on a stage and speaking or in a panel, you know, sitting down with other panelists, and just to have, you know, there were what, probably five or six people in that room.
00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:43.759
So it was a very small crowd, but just to have, you know, one person like you in the audience who was very engaged and then made a point to come up afterwards and say a few nice words, and then we connected from there, like that makes a big difference on me as a speaker or a panelist to know that, you know, that was worth my time too, even if it was one person who I connected with and maybe made a difference.
00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:47.120
And then since then we've stayed in touch, and that was what, six months ago.
00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:51.919
Um, and I think that's a good point about networking and just like putting yourself out there.
00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:54.000
It's not always a quantity game.
00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:59.039
Sometimes it's I think it's more quality over quantity and going deep and narrow versus shallow and wide.
00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:02.719
So that was a great example of you know, me showing up to speak on a panel.
00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:04.560
I had no idea what I was walking into.
00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:12.479
It was a smaller room than I probably expected and smaller crowd, but we came, we both came away with it with a new connection in each other and then have since you know stayed in touch.
00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:18.159
I think that's the the beauty of the quality over quantity game sometimes when it comes to networking.
00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:23.120
Welcome to the Quintessential Pod, where career conversations get real.
00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:26.319
Come on, sit down, and let's talk about it.
00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:41.680
To bring this kind of all together and to get started, when people hear networking, they picture those awkward events or being at conferences and exchanging business cards.
00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:44.080
But when you hear it, what do you think about?
00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:45.680
Yeah, that's a good question.
00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:55.199
I I feel like networking is just such a um, we need to like rebrand the word networking because it has such a stuffy corporate feeling to it.
00:03:55.280 --> 00:04:02.719
And to me, it's really about finding common ground and just finding like one thing that you have in common to connect with somebody about.
00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:11.520
Um, and it doesn't have to be a formal, buttoned-up, salesy conversation or uh, you know, awkward handshake or an aggressive exchange of business cards.
00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:14.479
I think it's really just finding something you have in common.
00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:26.240
It's just like talking to someone on the street or meeting somebody at a coffee shop or on a date or at a social, you know, it's just like you kind of build some commonalities, you have some chemistry with someone early on, and then you see where the relationship goes.
00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:33.040
So I think it's really just about finding that common ground early on and kind of being open to whatever that might, wherever that might lead you.
00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:35.279
You've given me some homework.
00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:38.079
I now have to rebrand the word networking.
00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:39.680
Let's make it a thing.
00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:41.680
Yeah, I'm going to set out on a quest.
00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:45.120
I already see a t-shirt and a sweatshirt, but I don't know what it says.
00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:46.560
But I'm gonna rebrand networking.
00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:47.360
Let's do it, yeah.
00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:47.759
Yeah.
00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:52.240
But you know, that actually taps into something I was just going to ask you.
00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:58.800
Um, for me, I feel like networking is throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.
00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:07.439
And you know, I think I told you this when we met for coffee that I had looked at the um the bulletin to see who I was gonna be speaking.
00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:12.879
And Helen, your name was not on there because you were originally not set to speak that day.
00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:21.120
And so um, so that you and I meeting and being in the same place was so random and honestly was not supposed to happen.
00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:29.360
But I had done my homework of like, oh, I want to meet with this person from this university and this person from this job and all the things.
00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:41.120
And so it really was just by chance that you and I had something in common with our similar interest in communication and then, of course, sport as well as my kind of my third research interest.
00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:48.800
Um And I think you already asked this, answered this question without knowing it, but I'll allow you to elaborate if you want.
00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:58.079
Why does networking kind of feel like throwing spaghetti at the wall and just feel like so uncertain um for some people?
00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:12.160
I think because so many people do it wrong or do it in kind of a cringy, desperate way, that it gives, you know, the rest of us who are trying to go about it the right way, maybe a bad rap or a bad taste of like what networking is, because it means so many different things to so many different people.
00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:25.920
But I think if you approach it um in a way that you approach building social relationships, whether personal or professional, that's true to you and not try to force yourself to be way more extroverted than you are naturally.
00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:38.000
It's easy to tell, you know, when people I think it's it's healthy to stretch a little bit because all of us at our comfort zone are probably not gonna present the same way we would at a networking event rather than like the way we interact with our friends.
00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:52.959
So I think it's important to stretch a little bit, but also find find that good balance between like what feels natural to you and your personality style, where you're stretching a little bit and going, you know, into a place that's slightly out of your comfort zone, but you're not like presenting a completely different identity.
00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:58.319
So I think a lot of it is just like having the self-awareness to know like what environments are you best in.
00:06:58.560 --> 00:06:59.439
Is it a small group?
00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:00.319
Is it a big group?
00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:06.720
Do you want to go deep and narrow with a few people and leave with maybe two or three meaningful conversations or business cards?
00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:11.439
Or are you casting a wider net and just trying to play the percentage or the quantity game?
00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:18.639
And it again, it depends like just on that level of self-awareness and knowing like the type of atmosphere and chemistry that really that you can thrive on.
00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:22.399
And Hamlin, I'll pause here because I didn't even introduce you.
00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:30.000
Um, so you work at a local um PR and communications firm local to Birmingham, and you're the director of strategy.
00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:32.000
So for everyone, this is Hanlin.
00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:32.639
So sorry.
00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:33.519
No problem.
00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:41.040
But with that though, I think, and this reminds me of a conversation that I've had on another episode of the podcast.
00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:50.959
I think also one of the reasons that networking feels so awkward is because people are up against an imaginary clock.
00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:59.439
So they find a job and then they're thinking, oh my gosh, I have to be one of the first 10 applicants because they're gonna, you know, pull out the people first.
00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:01.360
So I applied for this job.
00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:07.040
Now let me search for Hanlon, send him a connection and say, Hey, Hanlon, I applied for this job.
00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:09.839
Put in a good word for me, or whatever they say, right?
00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:24.319
And so I think sometimes that takes some of the authenticity and the genuineness away because people are trying to write and type in a way that's going to land them the response, which may not be natural to who they are.
00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:32.480
And so it's just so complex and so many nuances that go into this um this networking space.
00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:37.840
And I think um that's why I'm being very conscious, just to build my network in general.
00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:40.240
So I'm already connected with people.
00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:49.919
So when I do reach out to them, it's not like, hey, I'm only reaching out because I want you to pull my application, but maybe I'm already top of mind when an opportunity presents itself.
00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:50.879
Yeah, for sure.
00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:52.320
I think you bring up a really good point.
00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:57.120
And this is um, this is a phrase that we heard at an event last year that our firm hosted.
00:08:57.200 --> 00:09:06.799
Uh, it was a panel discussion on the legislative session, and we had a panelist who talked about the importance of building relationships, especially in the public affairs and public relations world.
00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:11.840
But the way he said it was you need to start building the bridge before you need to cross it.
00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:18.320
And that was just like such a, and you said it yourself, you know, less explicitly than that, but in a different way.
00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:22.879
And it's so important to start building those relationships early on without a specific ask.
00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:33.440
And I think one thing that I that is feels natural to me as uh someone who works in PR and as a storyteller, both, you know, in my full-time profession, and then also I do some freelance writing and journalism work on the side.
00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:46.240
And I think just approaching networking and relationship building with a sense of curiosity and coming in and asking questions authentically and like genuinely being curious about who you're talking to, what their career journey is, what they're interested in personally.
00:09:46.399 --> 00:10:01.759
And that can take you, I think, so many other places further than coming in with a specific agenda or an end goal, because you know, I've also interviewed several people, so many people over the years at our firm and you and met people at networking events who are very eager on the job hunt.
00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:13.759
And you can really tell, I think, the people who are genuinely curious and interested in in me or our firm, and then the ones who are just trying to, you know, rise to the top of an applicant pool and and kind of get in and get out.
00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:16.080
And that was one thing that I think struck me with you two.
00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:22.480
You've had a very organic um sense of curiosity and just a natural, just like a natural kind of chemistry earlier on.
00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:26.080
I could tell that you weren't really like, you know, in it for the wrong reasons.
00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:37.039
And I think that also gave me sort of a good green light early on and a gut read about you, and and that's why we've continued to stay in touch, just because it felt very natural and curious from the get-go.
00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:38.559
So that can take you a long way, I think.
00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:39.120
Yeah.
00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:48.960
And just for context, for those listening, um, one of the reasons that I've been growing my network is largely because uh my husband and I were newer to Birmingham.
00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:57.759
And so we had established networks in Tuscaloosa, but we're, you know, growing this very organically being here in Birmingham.
00:10:57.919 --> 00:11:06.399
But then also, I'm not necessarily at a crossroads in my career, but I was also on the cusp of finishing my doctoral program.
00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:29.679
And so just wanting to be in conversation with like-minded people, and even if we're not talking daily, but um reading your post that you're posting on LinkedIn and just even and with you, because I'm not looking for a job at your firm, but we were able to establish connections and you were throwing out names to me of like, oh, add this person to your network and do you know her?
00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:34.960
And she went to this university and you, you know, invited me to a PRSA meeting.
00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:48.399
And so it's just like maybe I don't need anything directly from you, but because we were able to establish a connection, you put me in contact with more people that I can are familiar faces when I do go into these rooms.
00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:53.279
So it's not always about, like you said, rising to the top of the applicant pool.
00:11:53.919 --> 00:11:54.639
Yeah, well said.
00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:59.120
And I think, you know, like you, like you mentioned, like we've both since opened doors for each other.
00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:07.440
Like I'm on this podcast talking with you about it now, and we found we found that common ground early on and and then have since been able to kind of be on the lookout for each other.
00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:13.840
So I think that's so important just to build it the right way from the ground up and then again being open to wherever it might lead.
00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:15.519
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:21.600
And so you I know you related it back to me, but I would love for you to maybe give another example.
00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:33.120
Um, when someone might reach out to you randomly on LinkedIn or another social media site, what stands out to you to make you say, you know what, I'm actually gonna help that person.
00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:36.159
I'm actually gonna entertain a conversation with them.
00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:37.600
Yeah, that's a good question.
00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:39.679
I think it's very easy to tell.
00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:48.159
And, you know, we get a lot of cold emails and and, you know, of course, AI these days, like everyone is getting spammed with just generic AI bot type emails.
00:12:48.320 --> 00:13:02.159
Um, it's really easy to tell when someone has done their homework and maybe it's a student who's interested in in having like an informational interview or coffee and just like the way that you approach someone, whether it's in person or the follow-up afterwards, which I think is even like more important.
00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:08.080
Another thing that worked really well for you or for both of us to reconnect is that follow-up piece afterwards.
00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:10.960
But I think you can tell like it's just a couple of subtle things.
00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:27.120
Maybe they've read your bio and mentioned something about, you know, a project you work on, or maybe you're from the same hometown or went to the same high school, or just little things like that that you can drop in a first email or message and just already you kind of like have broken through the barrier of so many other bad emails that that come that we all get.
00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:32.080
So I think just like taking an extra few minutes to do some homework, look at the look at their LinkedIn.
00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:38.080
Look, have they been mentioned in social media or in any news coverage, or do they have any fun hobbies or side hustles?
00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:43.440
So there's so many things that you can do to be ahead of the game even before you reach out to that person for the first time.
00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:43.919
Yeah.
00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:44.720
And you know what?
00:13:44.799 --> 00:14:05.200
That's good perspective that I had not thought about to be on the receiving end of some of those code emails or random messages, if you're almost sitting there getting ready to type a response if it feels inorganic or not um authentic, you almost don't know how to respond.
00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:24.799
Like, how do I even craft this in a way that you can even show your own personality or you're even comfortable because it's like, wait, this random person, they just want me to send their resume on to the next person, which I know people do that, but if you're getting inundated with things, it's kind of that's a barrier in itself.
00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:40.480
So also for those of us who may send cold emails or we're just you know throwing the spaghetti at the wall to see who sticks, we have to also be mindful who's on the other end of that receiving message and like they're human as as well.
00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:43.120
So that's good perspective I had not thought about.
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.080
Yeah, and you bring up a really good point too, is like we're all human.
00:14:46.159 --> 00:15:08.159
So I think going back to what you said about networking, it can be really intimidating to go up and speak to a speaker or let's say someone who's like a public figure or a keynote speaker at a big event, but you have to remember everyone is human and like we've all we've all been there before, whether or not you're on the the audience end or the speaker end, or people a lot of people know you or a lot of people don't.
00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:21.279
Um there's you know, we're all human and there's simple ways just to be human and genuinely curious and interested in people that can break down, you know, um job titles and experience levels and and level of fame or popularity.
00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:32.879
There's so many things that you can do to really present yourself authentically and and you know get the attention from the right person that might be a a game changer in your career or your personal life or whatever that looks like.
00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:33.679
Gotcha.
00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:44.720
And I guess conversely, on the other end of that, have you encountered any situations that have been off-putting and you're like, see, that's why I'm not gonna respond to this person?
00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:46.879
What's a red flag, if you will?
00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:59.200
Anyone who comes in like with too hard of an ask or too like, you know, too cold, like a cold sales pitch or someone who like wants to meet with you tomorrow or like doesn't really respect like the planning.
00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:07.360
And you know, I think anyone who comes in with like a sense of urgency that is like, you know, there's that saying it's like your um what is it?
00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:12.000
It's like your emergency, your sense of urgency is not, you know, is not my emergency or whatever, like poor plan.
00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:15.279
It kind of reflects on poor planning and just kind of passing the buck.
00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:24.080
So I think it's just it's really easy to spot like a red flag versus a yellow versus a green when you're meeting someone for the first time, whether it's through email or in person.
00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:33.200
And then, you know, I'm I'm usually I'll have my I'm pretty intuitive and I'll have my guard up quickly or keep people at arm's length if it doesn't feel like it's it's happening for the right reasons.
00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:40.799
And I'm sure you probably feel the same way based on like interactions that you've had, whether you're on the the receiving or being on the receiving end of that too, I guess.
00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:42.320
Yeah, yeah, certainly.
00:16:42.480 --> 00:17:05.039
And so I would love to know, aside from the relationship you and I are cultivating, um, have you had any examples where it started with something small and it's led to maybe a long-standing, you know, kind of work relationship or you've been able to take a connection that you made and use it otherwise in your career?
00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:07.680
Yeah, I can think of a few examples.
00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:14.319
Um, you know, one when I first started out in the communications field, I started, you know, with a few unpaid internships.
00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:17.440
And I was um I was doing a little bit of soul searching.
00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:20.000
This was in my you know early to mid-20s, right after school.
00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:24.799
I wasn't really sure what I was a bit of a late bloomer in the communications field and wasn't really sure what I wanted to do.
00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:34.000
And I moved back home and was looking for some internships and just volunteer opportunities to get more plugged in and at different communications um organizations.
00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:45.519
And I emailed someone at Mobile Bay Keeper, which is where I ended up working for four years, who was on staff there and just asked if they needed any unpaid um internship or volunteer support for the summer.
00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:48.079
I was home and just wanted to get more tangible experience.
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:50.319
And fortunately, she answered my email.
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.599
Uh, Mary Catherine Cunningham, shout out if you're listening to this.
00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:57.920
Um, but she answered my email and she, you know, extended an internship offer.
00:17:58.079 --> 00:17:59.039
Of course, it was unpaid.
00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:10.960
So like it wasn't a super um difficult thing to say yes to, but I think that's part of the thing that you need to like make make it an easy yes for whatever the person is that you're reaching out to and meet them where they are.
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:15.119
And I, you know, that was my best attempt at that of just, hey, I'm I'm here for the summer.
00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:19.279
I would love to help out um with an unpaid internship or volunteering opportunities.
00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:20.640
And then one thing led to another.
00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:22.720
I had a great summer interning there.
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:29.119
Um, I got hired on part-time for the next few months, and then a full-time role opened up as communications coordinator.
00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:35.839
I was there for you know two and a half years in that role, and then eventually got hired on as communications director for the next two years.
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:41.680
So I started as an unpaid intern and then um ended up you know leaving the organization as communications director.
00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:45.839
And again, that you know, it sounds like kind of a um a story.
00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:59.599
I don't know, it's maybe it sounds unrealistic a little bit or a little bit of a of a script because this all happened in about four years, four or five years, but you never know the power of just you know making um an easy yes to someone and then then being open to wherever that might lead.
00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:12.000
So I really like the easy yes perspective in nowadays because companies, whether big or small, they're all over social media, and of course their people are on LinkedIn.
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:18.559
And so it's very easy to find your if you do a little bit of research to kind of find your way in.
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:45.519
And what I think about that is especially for a small business, if you do need like that summer internship or you need something to do while you're in that transitional phase, and if you also are really into social media and content creating, reach out to that mom and pop and say, like, hey, um, I've noticed that your content is is really, really good and it's in line with the content I would like to do, but also I want to get more experience.
00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:50.559
Can I come on for a couple weeks and do some content creation for you for free?
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:53.599
And you never know what that may lead to.
00:19:53.759 --> 00:20:15.920
And so I think um in other conversations that I've had, I think now more than ever, especially for early career seekers or career pivot pivoters, um, we we have to be very um creative with some of the the ways that we're going about um, you know, getting our our foot in the door.
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:26.559
And you know, maybe it does start with you saying maybe an unpaid internship or unpaid opportunity, but that person actually may have some money in the budget.
00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:34.400
And so you going in with the easy yes of unpaid, but they were like, oh no, we actually do have money in the budget to give you a small stipend.
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:35.279
So you never know.
00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:39.920
So I think that's really good perspective with the automatic or the easy yes.
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:40.400
Yeah.
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:44.960
I think you just need to, you know, be a little creative on how you get in the door somewhere sometimes.
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:54.000
And then once you're in the door, like you're the the favor should be in your like the balls in your court, I think, to to impress and then go up above and beyond.
00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:59.039
But to me, the sometimes the hardest part is finding the in that where you can get inside.
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:07.039
And then once you're there, like you've got the whole, you've got so many more opportunities to impress and build that relationship and and have people get to know you.
00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:18.720
So but it's just again, it's it's being creative and being strategic about how you make that easy yes or present an easy yes to them because it's not always going to be something that is posted on their website or that's gonna be sent to you directly.
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:32.640
Sometimes you have to, you know, build something from scratch or present a cool idea and maybe it's unpaid to start out with, but I think that's so important of having kind of the the long the long willingness to play the long game and just like seeing the forest through the trees a little bit.
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:33.279
Yeah.
00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:46.319
So if you can remember back to that time, tell me where did you maybe get the idea or even the confidence from to reach out to the person to say, like, hey, do you have any unpaid opportunities available?
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:48.319
I would love to get into this space.
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:51.279
Well, I knew I wanted to get some nonprofit experience.
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:55.039
And at that point, I hadn't had any nonprofit internship experience.
00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:59.759
And everything I had heard was, you know, nonprofits are and they are definitely, I can attest.
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:05.359
So that's a great way to roll up your sleeves and get a lot of experience in a short amount of time.
00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:07.440
And I was back home in Mobile.
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:15.200
This was an organization that, um, as Mobile Bay Keeper said, they're protecting the local waterways and you know, um, the Mobile Bay watershed.
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:20.319
So all the rivers and creeks and the bay around there, that was something that was very passionate, that I was very passionate about.
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:21.680
I grew up spending time in the water.
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:26.799
So, you know, all the stars kind of aligned for me to um focus in on that organization.
00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:28.880
And, you know, some of it was luck, of course.
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:33.359
Like I think I got lucky that I knew someone who worked there, but again, that was leveraging your network.
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:34.640
It was a looser tie.
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:38.400
She was a more distant connection, but I just kind of like just went for it.
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:40.079
And then one thing led to another.
00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:56.799
But again, I think it's like knowing it goes back to that self-awareness of like knowing what you can bring to the table, knowing what experiences you want to get, and then also having that long-range view of like, okay, this isn't gonna happen overnight, but if I do X, Y, and Z, maybe in you know, two to five years from now, I'll be where I want to go.
00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:59.440
So that was really my thinking at that time.
00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:03.279
I was I was 24, I was not like a spring chicken fresh out of college.
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:08.640
You know, we've talked about this offline too, about just kind of the the age game and feeling like you might be a little bit behind.
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:14.480
But I think if you go about it the right way, you know, you can certainly sort of counter the the age stereotype coming out of school.
00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:14.960
Yeah.
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:17.839
And you know, I think that's something too.
00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:21.839
Um maybe people have to get out of their own heads and just go for it.
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:28.720
Because at the end of the day, the worst thing that they can do is say no or ignore you, but just going for the opportunity.
00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:42.960
And we were actually talking with someone earlier who said that sometimes people have uh uh an issue with asking for something because they feel like it's just but they don't want to feel like it's just being handed to them.
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:50.400
And so just breaking down that barrier, getting out of your own head and just putting yourself out there and going for it.
00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:53.440
And so obviously it certainly paid off for you.
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:56.880
Yeah, and like you said, the worst thing they can do is ignore or say no.
00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:58.720
So, like, no skin off of our back.
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:03.599
Like you you did you put your best foot forward, and if they say no, then there's nothing you can do about it, you know.
00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:04.319
So Yeah.
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:13.200
And I know you have so many people probably in your network and that you meet so many people in your travels and even probably just walking downtown and things like that.
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:22.720
But how do you stay connected with people, even when you don't necessarily need something from them in your career or at the time being?
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:40.559
I think a lot of it comes down to, you know, reading the room and like reading your network and and also just showing up because I think the, you know, some of the little like just overlooking the basics can be or not overlooking the basics is such an important strategy for relationship building.
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:44.799
You know, when you show up, you're already up one zero on the day or on the week.
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:51.440
So something as simple as like, oh, let me let me go to this networking event at Innovation Depot, or let me go check out this PRSA lunch.
00:24:51.599 --> 00:25:04.960
You might not know who's gonna be there, but chances are like if you're semi-plugged into that group or industry, you might have a few mutual connections, or you leave with a few new contacts and then figure out ways to strategically keep in touch with them.
00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:15.440
Maybe it's as simple as you know, sending them a congratulations note on LinkedIn if they have a promotion or a milestone, or you know, see their birthday on Facebook and sending them like a nice thank you note.
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:26.480
And I think the thank you note is such an an overlook or an undervalued thing today because who doesn't love getting like a surprise handwritten um invitation or message in the mail?
00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:36.480
Like we're so inundated with text messages and and notifications and emails that a good old-fashioned like package in the mail or a nice short note, like that can go such a long way too.
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:42.880
So I think it's just like thinking outside the box and being aware of like what's happening with the people in your personal and professional network.
00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:58.400
Yeah, and you know, even with you inviting me to the PRSA meeting, which is something I'm not professionally connected to yet, but obviously in that space because of my PR background, and that built in a way for us to stay connected.
00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:05.039
You weren't even at that one meeting due to other obligations, but I was able to tell you how it went afterward.
00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:20.880
But I also connected with the speaker that day on LinkedIn, and I don't even need anything from her, but because of the work that she does, almost daily she's posting some kind of nugget, and I'm able to take that, you know, with me.
00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:23.039
And should I bump into her again?
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:29.200
And we've actually swapped messages on LinkedIn since then, and PRSA was that common thread.
00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:35.680
So um the the small things matter, and you know, not overlooking the small steps, like you said.
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:37.920
So it really does go a long way.
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:44.720
And consistency too, like you said, it's like the the you know, little little doses here and there at can add up to quite a bit.
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:49.039
So I think just the consistency and reputation repetition is really important as well.
00:26:50.079 --> 00:26:59.359
So what is maybe a networking myth you think people believe in or they try to live by, but you wish they would stop?
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:02.559
A networking myth, that's a good question.
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:08.960
Um well, I think it goes back to the the quality over quantity thing that I talked about earlier.
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:10.799
It's not always a numbers game.
00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:26.000
And I think um you might go to a conference with thousands of people and think you're gonna come back with all these leads or contacts or interview, you know, interview opportunities, but the sometimes like the best opportunities can come up in the most unlikely ways.
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:39.359
And for me, like having attended many conferences in the past, I've found the most like the best networking to happen away from the sessions and away from the kind of the eight to five when you get to spend time with people in a more casual setting.
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:55.200
Maybe it's uh a restaurant or a bar or whatever the group activity is at night, and just kind of away from the the confines of the stuffy networking where you know you're you have like a 15-minute break to go get a coffee and try and hand out as many business cards as you can between before the next speaker.
00:27:55.440 --> 00:28:15.359
But often, you know, for me it's it's been more effective when I can connect with people in a smaller group setting in a more casual environment where maybe you're sharing a common interest or hobby or you know, over dinner or a drink or a coffee, and people, you know, have their work guard down a little bit more and are are kind of more in that relaxing social setting.
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:21.279
So I think like the best networking doesn't really happen during like built-in times for networking.
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:23.680
It happens like unexpectedly, at least from my experience.
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:27.039
That's good perspective because I won't lie to you, Hanlin.
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:30.880
I don't know if it's because the past few years I've been juggling so many things at once.
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:37.440
So when I go to a conference, I'm like, okay, it's five o'clock, the session's over, I'm gonna get food and I'm going back to my room.
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:40.720
And so it's like, uh no, Quincy, you've been missing it.
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:49.680
But it actually makes so much sense because, you know, there's this saying that the decisions aren't made in the meetings, they're made either before or after the meeting.
00:28:49.920 --> 00:29:15.839
And so if you apply that same logic to networking, and also even if it's a time during that conference space where you've had, you've you're able to sit all the things you learned in the breakout sessions to the side and you've, you know, refreshed yourself, and then you go to the happy hour or you go to dinner, you even are a little bit more comfortable and relaxed, and maybe can speak even just like more clearly and freely.
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:17.519
Um, so that makes sense.
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:20.319
So, see, that's why I got to keep you close, Helen.
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:21.920
I you're you're teaching me.
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:33.680
Well, conferences are, I mean, I totally get what you're saying about like we've all been at those conferences where it's information overload for the full day, and then you're exhausted, and then you have like a 30-minute break until the evening stuff starts.
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:42.640
And it's so tempting to want to go and just like chill in your hotel and get takeout and just like decompress, which you know, I've certainly done a few times here and there.
00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:56.880
But I think like the more you kind of like are just bought into the the full experience and just like showing up, again, showing up and walking into rooms where you don't know what's gonna happen or you don't know who you're gonna meet, and then you know, people are in that more relaxed environment.
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:01.839
I think the longer or the more ROI or benefit you'll get out of those um opportunities.
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:03.039
Yeah, for sure.
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:09.599
So for someone who's listening and like they live in this state of, am I doing this right?
00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:15.359
Um, as it relates to connections and networking, what's one thing you would want them to remember?
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:21.839
Well, A, we're gonna rebrand the term networking, I think, or we're on a we're on a mission to do that.
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:28.240
But I think, you know, B is just like what we talked about earlier of like networking looks different to everyone.
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:35.759
It's gotta it's gotta feel true to who you are, and you can't like force it upon people or do something that doesn't feel natural to you.
00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:51.119
Um, and then you know, another thing that I've found helpful is just kind of having like a short list of mentors, like potential mentors or people that you admire in your your industry or in your community, and a short list of those people who you would want to meet with one day.
00:30:51.200 --> 00:31:13.680
Maybe it's not gonna be tomorrow, but maybe it's over the next three months or the next year you would like to get in front of these people or people who are further along in your career than you and pick their brains on how they got to where they are, and then like figure out, okay, how can you make this work within my like the skills that I have, the environment that I have, um, and then sort of figure out how to map my way towards this person.
00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:24.319
So I think it's always good to have like people in your aspirational, like mentor community that you want to emulate and try and just like soak up and be a sponge from them as much as possible.
00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:26.480
Yeah, that that's really good.
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:30.319
Well, Hamlin, um, you have added so much context.
00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:34.799
If no one else gets anything from this episode, I certainly did.
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:37.839
And that goes back to quality over quantity.
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:40.480
And so I so appreciate your time.
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:47.039
I so appreciate your willingness, um, even from our very first coffee conversation until now.
00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:53.759
Uh, so cheers to us for continually forgering forging our connection um with each other.
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:58.880
So this has been another episode of the Quintessential Pod where career conversations get real.
00:31:59.119 --> 00:31:59.759
Thanks, Quinta.
00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:00.319
This has been great.
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:02.720
I love what you're doing with the pod, and this is a really nice studio.
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:07.200
So excited to see all the great content and the great stories that you uh that you produce.
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:07.920
Thank you.
00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:08.960
Thank you.
