Patsy Wright Pt. One

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Welcome back to our next series of episodes from The
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Pathwent Chile. I'm Robin and as I mentioned in our
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last few episodes, Ashley, Yeah, for personal reasons, has had
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to take some time off, but hopefully she will be
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back very soon. So for the moment, I will be
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sharing the details about a case with jewels and she
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will give off her reaction. So, Jeules, have you ever
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heard of the murder of Patsy Wright?
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I don't think so. I mean, Patsy Wright sounds like
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one of those names that I've heard before, but the
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details aren't coming to me. Maybe I've heard it, maybe
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I heard it on the Trail and Cold, but either way,
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it's not ringing any bells right now, so I'm excited
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for you to tell me about the case.
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Well, of course, this is another case which I did
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cover on The Trail Went Cold, which was also featured
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on Unsolved Mysteries. And what's interesting about it is the
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method of murder because Patsy Wright was a victim of
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strychnine poisoning, which is very rare these days. This is
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something that you would often find in old Agatha Christie
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mysteries and was a common poisoning method during the eighteen
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hundreds or the early twentieth century, but this case took
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place in Texas in nineteen eighty seven, and on the
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Unsolved Mystery segment, Robert Stack even said that at the
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time of this episode, there was only one other confirmed
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case of strychnine poisoning by a homicide since nineteen fifty
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because at that particular point, strychnine was very hard to
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obtain and sales of it were strictly regulated, so it
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would be very difficult to obtain strychnine and use it
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to commit a murder and get away with it. But
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this is one of the rare cases of it because
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someone managed to slip strychnine into a Patsy Writes Nike will,
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which she always took before she went to bed every night,
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and it wound up killing her. And here we are,
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nearly forty years later, and we still don't know who
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did it or what their motive was.
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So this is interesting for multiple different reasons. We've been
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covering old timey Hollywood mysteries and this one isn't an
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old timy mystery. I mean, it's from the eighties, so
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it is somewhat old. But there's elements of yesteryear kind
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of peppered in when we have the method of murder
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being that which was common in like the eighteen hundreds
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with strychnine, and I would think that someone would have
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to have like a commercial license to be able to
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procure large amounts of strychnine, that it would be rather
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controlled and regulated. But refresh my memory. Is strych nine
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one of the main components in rat poison.
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It is, yes, like it's mostly used as a pesticide
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to kill birds and rodents, and of course during the
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eighteen hundreds this was a popular method for serial killers
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because if you put strych nine into someone's drink or
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food and then you weren't at the scene when they died,
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it would be easier to get away with it. And
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there's a very famous unsolved case involving strick nine. One
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of the co founders of Stanford University, Jane Stanford, actually
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died from strychnine poisoning all the way back in nineteen
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oh five. But of course by nineteen eighty seven this
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was just very very uncommon because you would either have
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to have a license to sell it. So it's been
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speculated because they never figured out where this stryck nine
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came from. That whoever killed Patsy either stole it from
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a lab or something or obtained it on the black market.
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That's really interesting. This is a total side thing and
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like not really all that relevant, but I'm just curious
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if you know the answer, because it has to do
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with poisoning. Are you aware of And I don't really
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know if these claims were ever fully substantiated or corroborated,
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but the Borgias were rumored to, like Rodrigo and Lucrezia
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and Cesaret were rumored to have guests over for dinner
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parties and then poison them and throw their bodies in
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the Tyber River. Do you think that they would have
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used something similar to strychnine.
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Possibly. I'm not really familiar with the Borges case, but
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I do know that there are some documented serial killers
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who used it back several centuries ago, So it not
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surprised me if they did that because back then, obviously
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strychnine was not highly regulated and you could probably just
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go into a shop and purchase it, so that's why
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it was used as an effective method to kill people.
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You should do an episode on the trail when cold
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of the crimes of the Borges. That would be so interesting.
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There's so much more associated with it, and it would
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be like obviously impossible to corroborate a lot of the details,
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but it would be really fascinating.
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How long ago was it? What century do you remember?
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Yeah, I'm not sure.
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I'm just gonna look it up out of my curiosity. Yeah,
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the Borgia family took place in the oh waitter is
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it in like the fifteenth and sixteenth century, So that
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would definitely be a story where the trail went really
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really cold.
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Oh yeah, But there's so much with that family, Like,
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there's so many layers. It's like Game of Thrones type stuff.
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Interesting. But this one takes place in Arlington, Texas, in
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nineteen eighty seven, and the victim is forty three year
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old Patsy Bolton Wright, who is a very successful business woman.
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She has been divorced twice. She had two children with
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her first husband, Bill Wright, a son named Wayne and
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a daughter named Leslie, who are both in their early twenties.
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And she got married a second time and this marriage
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did not go well. But I'll talk more about that
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a bit later. But at this particular point, Patsy has
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been dating quite a few people. She's involved in a
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relationship with a man named Larry Todd, but she isn't
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really in any hurry to get married again. And she's
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also living in a temporary rental house because she is
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planning to purchase a ranch because she is really into
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horses and is hoping to raise and train three horses
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on her new property. But what's interesting is that Patsy
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and her sister Sally are both millionaires because they wound
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up collecting a sizable inheritance from their late father because
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he was a creator of two very popular wax museums.
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And this is interesting because this wax museums are going
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to be a major part of this story, as they
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were apparently insanely popular in Texas back during the nineteen eighties.
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So Patsy and her sister have a combined net worth
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of six million dollars because.
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Of it, and in the eighties six million dollars, So
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say Patsy's worth three million, that would be more like
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six million in today's money roughly, So that would be
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a sizeable amount and enough that it would give her
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the freedom to be able to date and to be
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able to choose a partner based on not necessarily She's
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not necessarily needing to look for somebody who would be
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a good provider for her children. She would be able
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to choose somebody based on love alone and hopefully that
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they would be a good and supportive parent to her children,
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but being a supportive provider in a monetary sense would
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take a back seat. So I think that her having
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this money it can be a bit of a double
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edged sword. It can be a real benefit because it
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does give her that freedom, but it might attract the
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wrong type of individuals. But it also would allow her
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to do things like be able to get into the
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horse business that is not an inexpensive business to be in.
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And I've known many a horse girl in my life,
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and I have a special spot in my heart for
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horse girls.
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Yes, it sounds like Patsy was living her best life
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at this point because she had two marriages which did
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not end well. So she's just saying, I'm not going
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to get married again until I find the right guy,
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and in the meantime try to pursue my passions and
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interests such as horses. And at this particular point, she
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was even thinking about opening up Ripley's believe it or
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not museum in San Antonio, so she wants to expand
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this whole wax museum bit business. Before she died, Patsy
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went on a two week camping trip with her daughter, Leslie,
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and the day she got back, she went horseback riding,
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met up with a realtor to talk more about purchasing
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the ranch, and then she attended a Halloween party at
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one of her museums because they had a big Halloween
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show scheduled a week later, because this took place on
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October the twenty second, and they were having a whole
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dress rehearsal for the show, and as far as anyone
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can tell, after the show ended at nine pm, she
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went to a bar with a friend and then went home.
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But at around three am on October the twenty third, Sally,
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her sister, was woken up by a phone call from Patsy.
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Sally was living with her husband, Steve Horning, and Patsy
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on the phone said that she had just taken some
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night quill to help her sleep, but she was now
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feeling very nauseous and having trouble breathing and just suddenly
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collapsed where it seemed like she was unconscious so Steve
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and Sally started panicking. And this is an interesting detail
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because Steve and Sally are going to be look dat
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has potential suspects. And they would claim that they tried
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to call nine one one to get an ambulance to
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Patsy's residence, but they just could not remember the address
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because this was a rental home where she hadn't been
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there all that long. So they were just blanking when
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they tried to tell the ambulance where to go, and
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then just decided, well, we can't really do much from here,
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so let's drive over to our house. Because they said,
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we know the route to the house, we know which
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turns to make, which streets to go, we just don't
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know the exact address. And so I wanted to ask
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if you found that unusual, because I can tell you
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from experience that I'm someone where I will know where
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like a close friend or family members live, where I
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will know the route to drive how to get there.
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But if you ask me their exact address, I might
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draw a blank.
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Oh I don't think it's strange at all to remember
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somebody's exact address. Yeah, I'm the exact same as you.
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I know how to get there. What turns to take,
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but knowing the address, Like I'm just trying to think,
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like I'm going to my parents' house or something. Do
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I know their actual address? No, but I know exactly
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where they live, and especially if it's somewhere that I
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could tell you the street, but like the address that
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would elude me. So in that moment of panic, if
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she's been if she hasn't been living there that long,
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and it's a rental home, I don't find it odd
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that they don't know. And this would have been before
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the time that they would have been able to trace
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the call very accurately and then send an ambulance there.
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So I can only imagine that feeling of panic, And
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it's easy to judge if you're somebody who just remembers
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addresses or files that away in something that's necessary. It's
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just not in ever filed into my brain is something
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that I'm going to need to know at a later date.
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Yeah, That's what I'm thinking myself, because I've seen online
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discussions about this case where some people get suspicious of
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Steve and Sally for this reason, thinking that they were
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using this as an excuse to go to the house
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baby commit the poisoning and dispose of evidence before they
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called the ambulance from Patsy's bedroom. But I can tell you,
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like I use to visit my grandparents' house all the time.
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They're like several hours away from me, and I could
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probably do the route like it's been in my head
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from driving there so many times that I could do
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it by heart. But if you ask me the address
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of where my grandparents used to live, I drawing a
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complete blank because that's just information I never needed to know.
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Yeah, it becomes irrelevant if you know how to get there.
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The address is something that you need to file away
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as important if you don't know how to get to
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a location, and like these days we'd put it into
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you know, ways or Google maps or something like that.
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But back then you might look at a map and
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then figure your way to the location. But if you
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know how to get there, then why would you need
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to remember the address unless you're sending like a Christmas
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card or something. And that's really the only time that
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I'm ever like, oh, what's this person's address? Is when
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I need to send a Christmas card or a Birthday card.
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Yeah, that totally makes sense to me. So when Steve
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and Sally arrived. They discovered that the front door for
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Patsy's residence was locked, so they couldn't get in, but
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when they went to Patsy's bedroom window, they discovered that
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she had left it partially open, so they were able
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to enter through there. So they found Patsy on her
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bed and it looked like she was unconscious at that point,
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but she was still alive and they were trying to
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revive her but cannot wake her up. So while Sally
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was phoning for the paramedics for help, Steve attempted to
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perform to mouth resuscitation on Patsy but was surprised when
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green liquid kept entering his mouth, which he subsequently spit out,
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and in retrospect, it turned out that was the cough
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syrup that she had taken right before she went to bed,
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because I'm guessing she was unable to digest it properly
243
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because it had traces of strychnine in it. So the
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paramedics soon arrived and even though they made an attempt
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to revive Patsy, they were unsuccessful, and while in the
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midst of taking her to the hospital, that's when she died.
247
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And at first they had no idea what happened here,
248
00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:55.480
because obviously strychnine poisoning is not something that's going to
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immediately come into your head when while a loved one
250
00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:01.600
dies of very strange causes. So since she was only
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forty three years old and she appeared to be in
252
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good health, they could not figure out what happened at
253
00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:09.879
first because she seemed like a very healthy person and
254
00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:12.879
it just seemed to be like an undetermined medical issue.
255
00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:15.720
But it was not until over a week later, after
256
00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:19.399
Patsy's funeral and memorial service had happened, that they decided
257
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to form a routine autopsy where they used a mass
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00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:27.200
spectrometer to check for fifty six thousand different foreign substances
259
00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:30.360
in her blood samples, and suddenly the machine gave off
260
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a violent reaction, and when the lab technician asked for identification,
261
00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:37.279
he discovered that it was strychnine in her bloodstream and
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this was the cause of her death.
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This just feels like an I get a Christian novel.
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At this point, you think that there is this undetermined
265
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medical cause and that she died and that it's tragic.
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There doesn't seem to be any major underlying health issues
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00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:55.799
and she's got her whole life out of her, so
268
00:13:56.120 --> 00:13:59.080
it's tragic. But then when you layer that on with
269
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this last autopsy, whatever made them choose to do this
270
00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:05.360
at the very last moment, It makes me wonder who
271
00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:09.840
pushed for this and why with somebody acting strangely, was
272
00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:11.720
there a reason to believe that it could have been
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something other than natural causes. I'm not sure, but I
274
00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:18.519
would love to know the answer. And then to find
275
00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:22.759
out that it's strick nine and everything flips it used
276
00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:25.919
to be. It was once looked at as this accidental
277
00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:30.919
death and this overwhelming tragedy where two children no longer
278
00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:34.919
have their mother and everybody is bereft, but now it's
279
00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:38.399
murder and the police have to look at it through
280
00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:42.120
a completely different lens. And unfortunately, what could have been
281
00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:44.320
looked at as the quote unquote scene of the crime
282
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was disturbed and they wouldn't have taken any proper evidence
283
00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:51.480
because they just assumed it was a medical emergency. And
284
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I can completely understand why. But I guess there's the
285
00:14:57.039 --> 00:15:01.200
possibility that whoever had access and who ever spiked that
286
00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:04.039
night quill, she might not have taken niquill on a
287
00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:06.559
regular basis. They might have just put it in that
288
00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:09.559
night quill and bided their time and thought, eventually she's
289
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:12.200
going to use it, and maybe it will have been
290
00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:15.039
months since I've been here, so it will be impossible
291
00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:17.679
to point the finger at me exactly.
292
00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:21.240
And that's why they originally thought that whoever killed Patsy
293
00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:23.720
was someone who knew her well and had intimate knowledge
294
00:15:23.720 --> 00:15:26.399
of her routine, because it was common practice for her
295
00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:29.159
to take niightquill before she went to bed because she
296
00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:32.759
would sometimes have trouble sleeping. And you're right, they did
297
00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:35.879
not secure the scene as a potential homicide at first,
298
00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:38.200
because they just thought she may have died of natural
299
00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:41.879
causes or some random medical issue. But thankfully, they still
300
00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:45.519
had the bottle of niquill inside her bathroom and they
301
00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:48.679
decided to check it, and sure enough, they found traces
302
00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:51.240
of strychnine in it, and even though a few grams
303
00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:53.559
of it are enough to be fatal, there was enough
304
00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:56.240
strychnine in the cough syrup to kill eight or nine people.
305
00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:58.600
So whoever did it like really wanted to cover their
306
00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:01.679
bases and make sure that once she ingested it, she
307
00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:05.080
would die. And it's a very cruel way to kill someone.
308
00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:07.720
Because strick nine does not work quickly, like once you
309
00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:11.720
ingest it, you have breathing problems, you have paralysis, you
310
00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:15.000
start coughing. And I know that Steven Sally kind of
311
00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:17.759
witnessed it firsthand when Patsy phoned them in the middle
312
00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:20.080
of the night and said that she was having trouble breathing,
313
00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:22.919
and it sounded like she was really suffering at that time.
314
00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.720
And she did not actually die until maybe like thirty
315
00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:28.879
forty minutes after she ingested it. So they figured that
316
00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:31.720
whoever did it not only had a potential motive to
317
00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:34.039
want or debt, but wanted to see or suffer first,
318
00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:36.279
because you have to obviously go to a lot of
319
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:39.120
trouble in order to obtain strick nine in the first place.
320
00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:41.919
But it seemed like someone wanted to ensure that Patsy
321
00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:44.080
had the most miserable death possible.
322
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:48.240
And I'm wondering if it comes down to did they
323
00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:52.000
want her to suffer or is this the easiest method
324
00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:56.320
by which to kill Patsy that they could be physically
325
00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:59.919
at a great distance away, like poison serves that purpose.
326
00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.399
And I mean, I don't know how many different substances
327
00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:07.279
one would have access to that you could end somebody's
328
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:10.279
life that would be more comfortable than that. I really
329
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:12.440
have no idea, and I don't know if that would
330
00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:14.240
have been a factor or if it was just sort
331
00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:17.279
of like, I've got access to Strict nine. I don't
332
00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:20.240
have to physically be there like you would to strangle
333
00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:23.279
or use a gun or to stab. So to be
334
00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:26.839
able to give yourself that physical distance gives you some
335
00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.359
kind of plausible deniability unless somebody knows that you were
336
00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:33.519
there and somehow had access to that bottle of niquil.
337
00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:37.519
Yeah, and makes me wonder if the perpetrator was literally
338
00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:40.599
reading old Agatha Christie mysteries and thinking that, ooh, this
339
00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:42.960
is a good way to kill someone, because Patsy can
340
00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:45.519
ingest it when I'm far away from the scene, and
341
00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:47.480
I can potentially get away with it. But of course,
342
00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:49.960
by this point it was not so easy to obtain
343
00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:52.359
Strict nine, so it was still a big mystery about
344
00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:54.200
how they got it in the first place. Of course,
345
00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:57.000
they checked the official government records all the sales that
346
00:17:57.039 --> 00:17:59.440
had taken place during that time period, but it didn't
347
00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:02.279
lead anywhere, so it seemed obvious that whoever did this
348
00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:05.799
either stole it from someplace like a lab or somehow
349
00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:08.000
was able to obtain it on the black market.
350
00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:12.200
Just a quick question. So you said that she routinely
351
00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:15.119
took night quill at night to help her sleep. Was
352
00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:16.880
this Do you know if this was like a once
353
00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:20.200
a week thing or if this was a daily thing, almost.
354
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:22.200
A daily thing like apparently she did it a lot.
355
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:24.519
So I think whoever did this knew that we're not
356
00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:26.160
going to have to wait a couple of weeks or
357
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:28.000
a month, because she, like I mentioned, she was on
358
00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:30.319
a camping trip, so they probably figured the first night
359
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:32.839
she gets home, she's going to take this, and sure enough,
360
00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:33.640
that's what happened.
361
00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:37.839
So whommever did this likely had access to her home
362
00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:40.519
while she was away on this camping trip and spiked
363
00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:42.680
the bottle of Nike will then correct?
364
00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:44.880
I think so yeah, Because as we're going to talk about,
365
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:47.440
Patsy kept a spare key to her house, which she
366
00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:50.640
thought had gone missing. So it's very possible that they
367
00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:53.079
entered the locked house while she was away, put the
368
00:18:53.319 --> 00:18:55.319
stryct night in the ni quill, then locked the door
369
00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:57.559
when they left, and no one was none the wiser.
370
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:02.240
So investigators did look into the possibility of suicide. But
371
00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:05.079
of course Patsy was very wealthy and successful. She had
372
00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:07.440
a great relationship with her children, seemed to be living
373
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:09.920
a good life, and of course, even if they're having
374
00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:11.960
like a great life and seem happy, you can never
375
00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:14.279
rule out the idea of suicide. But it just seemed
376
00:19:14.359 --> 00:19:17.400
ridiculous an idea in this particular case, because she had
377
00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:20.160
set her alarm clock for later that morning, so all
378
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:22.640
the signs indicated that she was planning to get up
379
00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:25.960
after she went to bed, and of course she called
380
00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:28.319
Sally when she was having breathing problems, so it was
381
00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:31.119
a strong indicator that she was wanting to be helped.
382
00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:34.160
She wanted to be saved. And of course, poisoning yourself
383
00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:37.319
with strychnine is such an odd method of suicide, which
384
00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:40.720
means you're going to suffer a long, protracted death before
385
00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:42.799
you pass away. So if she wanted to end her
386
00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.039
own life, she could have just taken sleeping pills or
387
00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:48.279
something like that. So, needless to say, thankfully, the police
388
00:19:48.279 --> 00:19:50.759
did not push forward the suicide narrative and ruled it
389
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:51.960
out relatively quickly.
390
00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:56.759
Yeah, suicide isn't really lining up for me, because it
391
00:19:56.799 --> 00:19:59.599
seems like a really odd message choose because it would
392
00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:03.000
be extreme me painful, and when most people are choosing
393
00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:07.000
the method by which to exit this world, especially women,
394
00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:10.680
it wouldn't be typical to choose something like strick nine.
395
00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:13.920
That just seems like who would want to invite more
396
00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:18.240
pain onto an already painful situation. It seems extremely odd
397
00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:21.079
and the alarm set like I could go either way
398
00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:24.599
on that, but I'm not seeing anything here to lead
399
00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:27.720
me to believe that that was the objective, especially calling
400
00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:30.960
Sally and Stephen. If that was your objective, it would
401
00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:33.400
be like I made a mistake. I did this, I'm
402
00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:35.759
not ready to die, and this is what I took,
403
00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:38.519
But we don't see that. So I think if she
404
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:42.799
did indeed intend to end her own life, then she
405
00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:45.640
wouldn't have called it all. And if she changed her
406
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:48.039
mind on ending her own life and had ingested it
407
00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:51.000
of her own free will, then I think that she
408
00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:53.240
would have told them this is what I took in
409
00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:54.359
hopes that they could save her.
410
00:20:54.920 --> 00:20:57.519
Oh definitely, yeah, Like I can't rule out the possibility
411
00:20:57.559 --> 00:20:59.759
of her changing her mind and regretting what she did,
412
00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:01.799
but I think she would have been transparent and said
413
00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:05.000
I ingested strychnine so that steven Sally could tell the
414
00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:07.480
paramedics what she took and tried to save her. I mean,
415
00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:10.480
the only way a suicide scenario really works is if
416
00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:13.640
she wanted to frame someone for murder, because obviously to
417
00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:16.440
put strychnine in something that's usually a method used to
418
00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:18.759
kill people. But there's nothing to indicate she was trying
419
00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:22.599
to do that. So police did check the possibility that
420
00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:25.359
she could have been a victim of product tampering, because
421
00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:27.680
this was only a couple of years after the Chicago
422
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:30.319
Tile in All murders, which is still unsolved to this
423
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:33.960
day and involved an unidentified perpetrator going into stores and
424
00:21:34.119 --> 00:21:37.359
opening up random bottles of Pilo and All and injecting
425
00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:40.480
the pills with potassium cyanide. So seven people wound up
426
00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:43.440
buying it, ingesting the tile and All and dying, And
427
00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:46.480
of course they were selected completely at random, because the
428
00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:49.440
perpetrator couldn't have known ahead of time who exactly was
429
00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:53.000
going to purchase these and die. But police pretty much
430
00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.880
ruled out that possibility because after the Tail and All murders,
431
00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:58.200
they put a lot of safety measures in place where
432
00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:01.519
they would put childproof caps and seal up the bottles
433
00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:03.839
when you put them out in stores. So I'm guessing
434
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:07.599
that they checked the passage for this particular cold medicine
435
00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:10.039
bottle and determine that it was sealed when that Patsy
436
00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:12.640
originally bought it. So they pretty much ruled out the
437
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:15.319
possibility that she was a random victim and figured that
438
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:18.160
whoever did this was intending to kill her and made
439
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:20.880
a calculated effort to break into her house and put
440
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:22.480
the strychnine inside her bottle.
441
00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:25.319
See, if somebody was going to end their own life
442
00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:27.960
and they had access to chemicals, I would think that
443
00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:30.720
like potassium sinide would be further up the list than
444
00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:34.279
strychnine because that is almost an immediate death, is it not?
445
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:38.680
It is, yes, and it's a lot easier to obtain,
446
00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:41.920
Like I don't know like what the rules are for
447
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:45.200
like purchasing it, but I'm guessing that potassium cinid back
448
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:47.039
then was a lot more common than strychnine.
449
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:50.920
Is potassium sinid the same thing that Russian spies would carry,
450
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:53.119
like in a little pill or whatever that they would
451
00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:55.880
take if they were captured back in the day, I.
452
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:58.319
Think so, Yeah, Like I don't know if they've been
453
00:22:58.440 --> 00:23:00.440
used too much in murders, but I do know that's
454
00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:02.880
like a common practice in spy stories, where they keep
455
00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:05.200
them under their tongue or in a false tooth, and
456
00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:07.640
after they're capture to being tortured, they'll just decide to
457
00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:11.160
ingest it to end their own life. So, like I mentioned,
458
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:14.319
Patsy had just gone out camping and on the same
459
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:17.119
day that she got back, she told her sister that
460
00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:19.319
she had a spare key to her home but noticed
461
00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:22.759
that it had gone missing. The spare key was never found,
462
00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:25.839
so theoretically anyone could have stolen it and used it
463
00:23:25.880 --> 00:23:28.920
to access her house while she was gone, and if
464
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:31.079
this person locked the door behind them, then no one
465
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:33.559
would have even known that they were there. They checked
466
00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:35.920
the house, there were no signs of any forced entry.
467
00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:38.319
There's no signs that a burglary had taken place or
468
00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:41.000
that anything was stolen, And like I mentioned, the only
469
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:43.240
reason that Steve and Sally were even able to get
470
00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:46.240
in there is because Patsy had left the window partially
471
00:23:46.279 --> 00:23:49.039
open when she went to bed. But the whole problem
472
00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:52.039
with the spare key thing is that even if certain
473
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:56.559
suspects had alibis, that doesn't necessarily clear them because someone
474
00:23:56.599 --> 00:23:59.079
could have entered the house at any time during the
475
00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:02.640
two week window that Patsy was gone. Just as an example,
476
00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:05.960
there's our current boyfriend Larry Todd. He was in Austin
477
00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:09.240
three hours away on the night of Patsy's death, and
478
00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:11.759
he actually showed some phone records to indicate that he
479
00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:14.680
and Patsy made a couple of calls which could establish
480
00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:17.720
his whereabouts. And while I don't personally believe that Larry
481
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:20.160
Todd did this, the problem is, even though he seems
482
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:22.880
to have an airtight alibi, it doesn't really clear him
483
00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:25.680
since he could have entered the residence any time during
484
00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:28.559
the two week window before Patsy got back and put
485
00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:30.799
the put the Strycht nine in her niquill.
486
00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:35.480
Yeah, it's really difficult because we can't really solidify any
487
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:39.599
timeline because there could be any number of things could
488
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:41.559
have happened, Like we don't know if this is the
489
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:46.680
same bottle of niquill that she would have taken potentially
490
00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:50.960
on this camping trip. What if Patsy had taken this
491
00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:54.240
bottle of niquill and whomever decided to kill her had
492
00:24:54.279 --> 00:24:57.160
to have accessed her home within a very small window
493
00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:00.720
of the day that she was killed, assuming that she
494
00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:03.440
left this bottle behind and then that's when the person
495
00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:05.559
dosed it. But if she's somebody that has an issue
496
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:07.759
with sleep, I would think that she would be taking
497
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:11.000
this night quill with her while she's going camping. So
498
00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:14.000
we just don't know the answer to the when this
499
00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:16.839
person broke in and drugged the ni quill.
500
00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:19.839
That's a good point, like, it's never been established that
501
00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:22.920
Patsy took this particular bottle of niquill with her on
502
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:25.519
the camping trip, and even if her daughter said that
503
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:27.480
she saw her taking it, how do you know it's
504
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:29.319
the same one from the house. How can you be
505
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:31.759
certain that she didn't just buy another bottle of niquill
506
00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:34.559
at a store on her way there. And of course, Leslie,
507
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:36.279
the daughter is not going to be thinking about that
508
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:39.039
stuff on the trip because it just seems like routine,
509
00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:42.559
ordinary things. But in retrospect, I'm sure she was wondering, hmm,
510
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:44.759
was that the same ni quill bottle that she had
511
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:46.720
on the trip that was later found in a house
512
00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:50.640
with the poison in it. So another detail which caused
513
00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:54.200
some complications is that when they went into Patsy's bedroom,
514
00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:56.640
they found that she had a dinner tray on there
515
00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:00.079
with two plates, and so that made people wonder if
516
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:03.119
Patsy had invited someone over to her house that night
517
00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:06.319
for some sort of late night intimate dinner. It was
518
00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:09.599
established that after the dress rehearsal at the museum for
519
00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:11.599
the Halloween party, she went to a bar with a
520
00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:14.640
friend and then headed home at around nine. But could
521
00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:17.599
she have picked up someone and invited them into her
522
00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:20.480
home and that's when they took the opportunity to put
523
00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:24.039
strychnine inside the Nike wall. So the issue was at
524
00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:26.960
her current boyfriend at the time, Larry Todd, because he
525
00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:30.160
was in Austin three hours away. It couldn't have been him,
526
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:33.119
but it did lead to speculation. Could have Patsy had
527
00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:35.839
some sort of secret lover that people didn't know about.
528
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:38.640
Was she having an affair with someone who was invited
529
00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:41.680
into her home on that particular night because Larry was
530
00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:44.200
out of town and they had an intimate encounter and
531
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:47.680
then he used this opportunity to poison her. And another
532
00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:50.039
detail which seemed to point towards that is the fact
533
00:26:50.079 --> 00:26:52.880
that the burglar alarm was not set, which she ordinarily
534
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:55.480
did every single night before she went to bed, So
535
00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:57.799
the thinking of themselves. Hm, if she had someone else
536
00:26:57.839 --> 00:26:59.640
with her who was planning to spend the night, that
537
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:02.559
could have explain why she forgot to set the alarm.
538
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:05.759
Yeah, these are really great points. And I think that
539
00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:09.160
it's possible if her boyfriend was out of town and
540
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:12.519
she called over her called over a man she was
541
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:16.200
potentially having an affair with, and she wouldn't set the
542
00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:19.680
burglar alarm. And who knows what the dynamics of this
543
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:23.000
relationship could be, and if there was indeed a relationship
544
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:26.319
at all. But let's just say that things are getting
545
00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:31.880
more serious with Larry, and so Patsy is like, we're
546
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:33.480
going to have to end this. This is going to
547
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:35.079
be the last time that I'm going to see you
548
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:38.960
type of a thing, and maybe she'd let that be known.
549
00:27:39.160 --> 00:27:42.000
And then he came over and you know, I can't
550
00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:44.319
have you. Nobody can type of a thing, and was like,
551
00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:46.720
I'm going to poison her. If she doesn't want to
552
00:27:46.759 --> 00:27:49.079
be with me, I'll teach her a lesson type of
553
00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:51.759
a thing, because I just don't see a random perpetrator
554
00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:54.920
at a bar that she'd pick up having strict nine
555
00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:55.559
on their person.
556
00:27:56.079 --> 00:27:58.200
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking myself that if it was
557
00:27:58.279 --> 00:28:00.839
someone she brought home, it wasn't a complete random stranger.
558
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:03.759
It was someone who wanted to kill her and figured
559
00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:06.079
that I'm going to use this at the first opportunity
560
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:08.880
that I'm invited into her home. And I know there's
561
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:11.440
always been debate about the two dinner plates. In online
562
00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:13.680
discussions about this case, there are some people who don't
563
00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:16.960
think it's unusual, saying, as strange as it sounds, if
564
00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:19.400
they have like weird quirks like OCD where they think
565
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:21.559
of themselves, I have to have food on one plate
566
00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:23.799
and the rest of the food on another plate just
567
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:26.480
to keep them separate, or maybe they just have like
568
00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:29.720
two different sides or something like that. And unfortunately, because
569
00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:32.680
this wasn't considered to be homicide at first, I don't
570
00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:35.079
think they took the dinner plates into evidence in order
571
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:38.359
to check for fingerprints or anything like that. So it's
572
00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:40.920
really hard to tell if these two dinner plates indicate
573
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:43.079
that another person was there, or if it's just a
574
00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:46.400
red herring and that maybe Patsy, for whatever reason, wanted
575
00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:49.119
to have two separate pieces of food on separate plates
576
00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:50.759
and then take them into bed to eat them. On
577
00:28:50.759 --> 00:28:51.680
that particular night.
578
00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:55.480
So we're sure that they're dinner plates and they're not
579
00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:59.039
like medium sized tapas plates or side plates.
580
00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:01.480
Yeah, they've been to described as dinner plates, like not
581
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:03.880
one large plate or one small plate. It sounds like
582
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:06.039
it was two plates of the same size that would
583
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:08.119
ordinarily have full meals on them.
584
00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:10.599
I mean, we would have to know what her plate
585
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:13.759
inventory was, like, did she have lots of side plates,
586
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:17.920
medium plates, small plates? Like I'm not sure. Maybe if
587
00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:20.960
the only size you have is like teeny tiny and
588
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:24.559
then large. But you want to have like maybe some
589
00:29:24.599 --> 00:29:27.759
fruit and a dessert on one and then your meal
590
00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:32.000
of like dinner type foods on the other, maybe meat, vegetables,
591
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:35.200
some kind of carb, whatever, and you don't want them
592
00:29:35.240 --> 00:29:37.559
to be on the same plate and touching. I get that.
593
00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:40.839
I wouldn't want my steak touching my cheesecake either.
594
00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:44.039
Yeah, so that could be like all it really was.
595
00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:47.000
I mean, it doesn't really specify what food was on
596
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:48.839
the plates. And I don't know what kind of habit
597
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:51.400
Patsy had. Was she someone who would come home after
598
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:53.839
nine o'clock and then just decide I want to have
599
00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:55.400
a late night dinner and I want to have it
600
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:57.920
in my bedroom while I'm in my pajamas and stuff,
601
00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:00.359
just to save me the trouble, and then I'll the
602
00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:02.720
dishes in the morning. So you could just interpret this
603
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:05.680
clue in so many different ways. But as we're going
604
00:30:05.720 --> 00:30:08.119
to talk about, there were rumors at that time apparently
605
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:11.079
that Patsy might have some sort of secret lover, and
606
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:13.079
if she did, that would have been the perfect time
607
00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:14.359
for her to invite him over.
608
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:16.799
And the plates were found on the bed.
609
00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:19.519
I think they were on a tray, like right next
610
00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:20.039
to the bed.
611
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:21.880
But was it tray on the bed?
612
00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:25.039
Yes, I think it was because they know that steven
613
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:27.240
Sally said that they had to move the tray off
614
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:29.640
the bed when they arrived in order to give her CPR.
615
00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:33.920
I mean, I guess it's a highly individual thing. People
616
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:36.319
are going to live their lives in different ways, and
617
00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:40.720
they're going to deal with dishes that are potentially dirty.
618
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:43.119
I don't know what was on them. If you had
619
00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:47.240
something like a cast role or something that was like gooey,
620
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:50.119
then it could create a smell. But if you had
621
00:30:50.119 --> 00:30:52.920
something like a sandwich, well that's not going to create
622
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:55.799
a smell, so you might not need to remove the
623
00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:58.200
dishes with the same type of haste that you would
624
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:02.240
if it was something that would be gross come morning time.
625
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:05.039
All I can think of is if I had a tray,
626
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:06.680
and if I was going to eat in bed and
627
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:08.920
I had a tray with dishes, I wouldn't go to
628
00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:11.240
sleep with those dishes on a tray. Beside me. That
629
00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:13.880
just feels odd, Like what if I roll over onto
630
00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:17.000
these dishes. It just doesn't feel comfortable and it doesn't
631
00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:17.839
feel sanitary.
632
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:21.240
It doesn't. Yeah, so who knows what she was thinking.
633
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:23.519
Maybe she was just tired and just didn't want to
634
00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:25.920
bother moving the dishes. But I do know that she
635
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:28.960
was found wearing her pajamas. She wasn't naked, And if
636
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:31.119
they had thought this was a homicide from the beginning,
637
00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:33.119
they might have done an autopsy to see if she
638
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:36.759
had sex shortly before that. But unfortunately, because they didn't
639
00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:39.720
detect the strych nine until a week later, she was
640
00:31:39.799 --> 00:31:42.599
already buried in the ground and had had her funerals,
641
00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:44.559
so they were never able to determine if she had
642
00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:46.759
been intimate with someone before she died.
643
00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:50.119
And you mentioned that she was at a bar right before,
644
00:31:50.359 --> 00:31:52.400
so there's a possibility that she could have had a
645
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:56.119
good buzz on and making the extra effort to do
646
00:31:56.200 --> 00:31:59.279
certain things like get up and move dishes. It might
647
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:03.079
seem seem like more laborious when you're buzzed or when
648
00:32:03.079 --> 00:32:05.480
you've had a few drinks than if you're completely sober,
649
00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:07.920
So that definitely would factor in for me.
650
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:10.200
I think so yeah, And if she had already taken
651
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:13.200
the Nike will she's probably like getting woozy and tired anyway,
652
00:32:13.240 --> 00:32:15.440
and she just came back from a camping trip, has
653
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:17.759
done a million things, so she might be thinking to herself,
654
00:32:17.799 --> 00:32:19.279
I just want to go to sleep and I'll worry
655
00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:23.640
about this in the morning. So, of course, investigators started
656
00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:26.680
looking into potential suspects in the murderer, and because her
657
00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:30.480
two children, Wane and Leslie, stood to inherit a sizable
658
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:32.960
amount of money from her, they were the first people
659
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:34.839
that they looked at. But they were described as being
660
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:38.440
very cooperative and they both passed polygraph tests and we're
661
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:40.960
known for having a great relationship with their mother, so
662
00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:45.119
neither of them were considered to be suspects. But interestingly enough,
663
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:48.519
the day after Patsy died, Leslie claimed that she received
664
00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:51.279
a phone call from an anonymous woman who kept asking
665
00:32:51.319 --> 00:32:54.920
for Patsy, and even though Leslie said she's not available
666
00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:56.759
right now because I don't think she was in the
667
00:32:56.759 --> 00:32:59.880
mood to tell this strange caller that her mother had died,
668
00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:03.000
but the caller was still insistent to talking for so
669
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:06.160
Leslie finally said, I'm sorry to inform you that Patsy
670
00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:09.319
has just passed away, and the woman replied, good, I
671
00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:13.000
wanted her dead before abruptly hanging up, and the caller
672
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:15.759
was never identified. And what's unique here is that this
673
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:18.559
call took place like at a time period when they
674
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:21.640
just assumed that she died of natural causes. They hadn't
675
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:23.920
yet to determine that her death was a homicide, so
676
00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:26.200
it's not like it was all over the news or anything,
677
00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:29.880
and very few people knew about it. So in retrospect,
678
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:33.039
Leslie was wondering if maybe this woman was involved in
679
00:33:33.079 --> 00:33:35.359
what happened, and that the only reason she made this
680
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:38.400
call and kept pushing to talk to Patsy is because
681
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:42.119
she wanted to confirm that Patsy was dead after taking
682
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:45.400
the poison cold medicine, because obviously it's not going to
683
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:48.400
make the news or anything until it's reclassified as a homicide.
684
00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:50.640
So this was her kind of subtle way of trying
685
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:52.720
to figure out if the job was successful.
686
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:56.480
Oh, that just throws a whole nother wrench into it.
687
00:33:56.599 --> 00:34:00.240
Who knows if Patsy did have a secret lover. Maybe
688
00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:03.359
this was the girlfriend of the secret lover, or maybe
689
00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:05.920
she had an obsession with Larry, or maybe she was
690
00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:10.239
having an affair with Larry. There's so many possibilities that
691
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:13.679
we don't have more information about this woman except for
692
00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:17.119
the fact that she wanted Patsy dead and seemed to
693
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:20.599
be pushing on information that she wouldn't have known unless
694
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:24.239
she was close either in doing this herself or being
695
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:25.719
connected to somebody who did it.
696
00:34:26.440 --> 00:34:28.199
Yeah, as we're going to talk about, they would look
697
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:30.880
at a potential suspect later on a couple, a married
698
00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:34.519
couple where there were apparently rumors that the husband may
699
00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:37.400
have been involved in Patsy and that the woman became jealous.
700
00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:39.119
So it could be a thing where even if this
701
00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:42.159
particular couple wasn't involved in the murders, maybe the woman
702
00:34:42.199 --> 00:34:44.960
had her own reasons for disliking Patsy and then just
703
00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:47.440
decided to say this very cruel thing to her daughter,
704
00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:50.159
saying I'm glad that she is dead, but I do
705
00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:53.239
know that when like cold cases homicide cases took place,
706
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:56.239
sometimes like just cruel people will decide to give prank
707
00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:59.239
phone calls to the family just to say mean things
708
00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:02.239
to the for their own amusement. But this one, it
709
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:04.480
just seems like it was someone with intimate knowledge of
710
00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:06.920
the family because she made this phone call before it
711
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:10.639
was reclassified as a homicide and before it made the news.
712
00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:13.880
But there also is that possibility, Like as soon as
713
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:16.639
you said it, in what she said, it just struck
714
00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:18.519
me as like this is a woman who's a romantic
715
00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:22.199
rival in some capacity, and so in pushing to talk
716
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:25.559
to Patsy, it doesn't mean necessarily that she knew she
717
00:35:25.639 --> 00:35:27.480
was dead. It could have been that she just found
718
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:30.239
out that her husband or boyfriend was having an affair
719
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:34.400
with her or something to that effect, and really wanted
720
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:36.159
to talk to her to let her know like I
721
00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:39.199
see what you're doing and I don't approve of it,
722
00:35:39.320 --> 00:35:42.519
or to get angry at her and yell do whatever.
723
00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:46.199
But then when she found out Patsy was deceased, it's like,
724
00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:49.559
oh good, I wanted her dead anyway type of an energy,
725
00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:52.039
And like now she can't screw up my relationships, so
726
00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:56.280
it is highly suspicious. But I could see two different
727
00:35:56.280 --> 00:35:59.960
potential avenues for why that woman was calling and why
728
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:01.280
she had the energy that she did.
729
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:05.000
Yeah, and it's unfortunate that because this was a homicide
730
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:07.840
investigation at first, that Leslie never asked the police to
731
00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:09.719
trace this call. And I don't know if they even
732
00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:11.639
had the technology, but if they had been able to
733
00:36:11.639 --> 00:36:13.880
figure out who made the call to begin with, they
734
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.079
might have been able to identify the woman and find
735
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:20.079
out what her motivation was. So they started looking at
736
00:36:20.119 --> 00:36:23.079
Patsy's two ex husbands. Her first marriage was to a
737
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:25.159
guy named Bill Wright, who was the father of her
738
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:28.199
two children, and they had divorced back in nineteen eighty.
739
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:31.480
But by all accounts, the divorce was pretty amicable, and
740
00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:34.719
Patsy even retained like her ex husband's last name, which
741
00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:37.400
is very unusual. After divorce, she was still going by
742
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:41.280
Patsy Bolton Wright. So he was fully cooperative with the
743
00:36:41.320 --> 00:36:44.760
investigation and passed a polygraph and was not considered to
744
00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:47.800
be a suspect. We'll talk more about her second ex
745
00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:51.119
husband later on, but another person who was ruled out
746
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:54.679
was her boyfriend Larry Todd, who was away in Austin
747
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:56.880
three hours away on the night of the murder. And
748
00:36:57.320 --> 00:36:59.639
even though I said that this doesn't really clear him
749
00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:02.719
because the poisoning of the cough medicine could have taken
750
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:06.000
place days earlier. He had a great relationship with Patsy,
751
00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:08.239
did not have any known motive, and they weren't at
752
00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:11.159
the position where he was going to inherit anything from
753
00:37:11.199 --> 00:37:13.480
her death, so he was also ruled out as a
754
00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:17.239
suspect as well. But they started looking into her sister,
755
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:20.639
Sally and her brother in law, Steve Horning, because they
756
00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:24.920
now stood to inherit the multimillion dollar Wax Museums that
757
00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:29.440
Patsy had control over. Prior to this, Sally and Patsy
758
00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:32.119
had entered a buy sell agreement and had on five
759
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:35.360
hundred thousand dollars life insurance policies on each other, which
760
00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:37.960
meant that if either of them died, the surviving sister
761
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.199
would use the life insurance money to buy out the
762
00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:43.360
other share of stock and become the sole owners of
763
00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:46.880
the wax museums. Now, Patsy and Sally had always been
764
00:37:46.920 --> 00:37:49.639
on good terms, but the problem was that Patsy did
765
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:51.880
not really like Steve Ball that much, who was not
766
00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:55.679
known for being financially responsible because only a few years
767
00:37:55.719 --> 00:37:58.639
after Sally and Steve got married, Steve had already spent
768
00:37:58.760 --> 00:38:01.280
most of Sally's inherent hints that she received from her
769
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:05.199
father and got them both into debt. And a complication
770
00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:08.440
arose in nineteen eighty five because Sally was diagnosed with
771
00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:12.320
cancer and it turned out that if Sally died, Steve
772
00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:15.320
would receive the five hundred thousand dollars life insurance policy
773
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:18.320
and could then wind up owning the controlling share of
774
00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:21.320
the stock in the museums if something ever happened to Patsy.
775
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.480
So by this particular point, Sally's cancer had gone into remission,
776
00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:28.000
but Patsy was still thinking to hisself, I don't want
777
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:31.360
to risk Steve having control of the museums if my
778
00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:33.960
sister died, so give it because of his less than
779
00:38:33.960 --> 00:38:37.519
great financial history. So both sisters agreed that their bi
780
00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:40.599
sell agreement needed to be changed, and they scheduled a
781
00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:43.280
meeting for this in early November, which just happened to
782
00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:47.440
be two weeks after Patsy's death took place. But of course,
783
00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:50.639
because Patsy died, Sally wound up getting full control of
784
00:38:50.679 --> 00:38:54.280
the museums. And while police didn't necessarily believe that Sally
785
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:56.039
may have played a role in her death, they started
786
00:38:56.079 --> 00:38:59.719
looking at Steve because he stood to collect and he
787
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:01.880
was a who was in debt, who was broke and
788
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:03.440
could definitely have used this money.
789
00:39:04.599 --> 00:39:08.519
Yeah, we've got two sisters, one who is very financially
790
00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:11.599
solvent and the other one who was attached to this
791
00:39:11.679 --> 00:39:15.079
guy who sounds like a bit of an energy vampire
792
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:17.639
in the sense that he's sucking away all of her money.
793
00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:21.599
And so if he's in dire straits and he needs
794
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:24.719
a quick fix and he sees on the horizon that
795
00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:27.480
this whole by cell agreement is going to be potentially
796
00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:31.039
changed within two weeks, he might see a very narrow
797
00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:34.519
window for when he can act that will give him
798
00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:39.559
control and a financial windfall in the event of Patsy dying.
799
00:39:40.039 --> 00:39:42.920
So I can definitely see why Steve was looked at
800
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:45.920
as a suspect, because who would have a better motive
801
00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:48.079
than Steve exactly.
802
00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:50.559
And you add in the fact that they didn't tell
803
00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:54.360
the ambulance Patsy's address because they supposedly forgot about it
804
00:39:54.679 --> 00:39:56.880
and then just drove there and you're thinking to yourself,
805
00:39:56.920 --> 00:39:59.480
did they have alterearr motives? Did maybe Steve want to
806
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:03.320
go Patsy's body in order to dispose a potential evidence
807
00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:06.599
or something. But they thoroughly questioned both of them, and
808
00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:09.559
they agreed to take polygraphs. Sally passed, and while the
809
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:12.760
results of Steve's first polygraph tests were inconclusive, he did
810
00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:16.280
wind up passing the second one, and investigators felt that
811
00:40:16.360 --> 00:40:18.519
the big piece of evidence which seemed to point towards
812
00:40:18.519 --> 00:40:21.000
Steve's innocence was the fact that he was willing to
813
00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:24.760
perform mouth to mouth resuscitation on Patsy and wound up
814
00:40:24.920 --> 00:40:28.239
ingesting some of the cost syrup, which he subsequently spit out.
815
00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:30.519
But at the same time, if he knows that there's
816
00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:33.480
strychnine in this liquid, he obviously would think that there's
817
00:40:33.519 --> 00:40:36.079
a chance that he could ingest it himself and wind
818
00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:38.760
up dying. So they're thinking to themselves, would Steve have
819
00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:42.239
really done this if he was the perpetrator? And they
820
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:45.400
were able to verify that this happened, because when Sally
821
00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:47.320
was calling nine to one one, the operator on the
822
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:49.760
line said that she could hear saying you have to
823
00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:52.639
blow into her mouth. Which meant that Steve was performing
824
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:56.920
CPR on her. So they're thinking to himself, even though
825
00:40:56.960 --> 00:40:58.760
he was kind of an amateur and didn't really know
826
00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:00.599
what he was doing, there was still a huge risk
827
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:02.800
of him ingesting the Strick nine. So that's why they
828
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:05.599
were thinking, hmm, maybe he had no knowledge that she
829
00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:07.920
had been poisoned, and that means he wasn't involved in
830
00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:08.360
her death.
831
00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:12.480
I could see that going either way, because we have
832
00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:15.000
a situation where we have Sally saying to Steve, you've
833
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:17.079
got to blow in her mouth. Well, they could have
834
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:20.599
discussed this beforehand. Basically, we need to make it appear
835
00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:23.360
like you're giving her mouth to mouth and that you
836
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:26.239
aren't aware that she's been poisoned, because that will point
837
00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:29.320
towards your innocence. So we need to basically make it
838
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:31.559
sound to the nine one one operator that this is
839
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:34.679
what is happening, even though it's not what's happening and
840
00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:38.360
I'm doing absolutely nothing. It's not necessarily true that Steve
841
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:41.239
ingested some of his coughs are up and the Strick
842
00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:43.840
nine because he said that he did. We don't have
843
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:48.400
any corroborating independent witnesses aside from Sally and I just
844
00:41:48.519 --> 00:41:52.800
don't think that the wife of the man who has
845
00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:56.760
the best motive to murder Patsy is necessarily the best
846
00:41:56.840 --> 00:41:57.679
eyewitness here.
847
00:41:58.280 --> 00:42:01.159
Yeah, you've used this term in the past rends of countermeasures,
848
00:42:01.159 --> 00:42:03.360
where it's thinking, we're going to put up this scenario
849
00:42:03.480 --> 00:42:05.159
to make it look like we couldn't have done this
850
00:42:05.239 --> 00:42:07.800
because we're risking our own life, And that could mean
851
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:10.039
that they staged this whole thing where he claimed he
852
00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:12.719
was giving her CPR. And I do know that the
853
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:15.039
paramedics said that they did not see a lot of
854
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:17.679
like the green liquid on the bed next to Patsy,
855
00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:19.599
but that could also be attributed to the fact that
856
00:42:19.639 --> 00:42:22.199
maybe Steve wasn't doing it properly because he's not a
857
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:25.760
trained paramedic and maybe was not giving her CPR as
858
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:28.280
well as he could have. But another thing that seemed
859
00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:30.559
to lean towards them is the fact that the Strych
860
00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:34.199
nine lace niquill bottle was left on Patsy's bathroom counter
861
00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:36.760
for the police to collect. And I'm thinking that if
862
00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:39.239
Steve and Sally were involved, they had ample time to
863
00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:42.199
dispose of the evidence, and if that niquill bottle had
864
00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:44.519
never been found, they may never have figured out how
865
00:42:44.599 --> 00:42:47.760
exactly Patsy died. So the fact that they took the
866
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:49.559
trouble to go to the house and left the key
867
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:52.199
piece of evidence lying out in the open could point
868
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:53.960
towards them not being the perpetrators.
869
00:42:55.159 --> 00:42:57.480
Or it could just be that they didn't think about
870
00:42:57.480 --> 00:43:00.960
that element of if it was Steeve who did it,
871
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:03.239
maybe he thought I wore gloves while I did this,
872
00:43:03.679 --> 00:43:05.920
so there's no fingerprints on it. It can't be traced
873
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:09.000
back to me. Who knows what thought process somebody could
874
00:43:09.079 --> 00:43:11.360
go through. And I would just think that like knowledge
875
00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:13.760
of friends and countermeasures at the time, not what they
876
00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:16.800
are today as far as like common knowledge goes. So
877
00:43:17.639 --> 00:43:21.519
removing that bottle might have just been something that didn't
878
00:43:21.559 --> 00:43:25.159
cross his mind, which seems to fly in the face
879
00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:28.760
of a strategy that would be to have this whole
880
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:33.280
subterfuge element pretending to do CPR so that you look innocent.
881
00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:36.880
But anything as possible. We've seen all things when it
882
00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:38.000
comes to criminal cases.
883
00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:41.000
Oh yeah, We've done so many cases where we say, well,
884
00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:43.639
if a potential suspect, if they were the perpetrator, why
885
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:46.159
did they just do this obvious action in order to
886
00:43:46.199 --> 00:43:48.760
cover things up? And The obvious answer to that is
887
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:51.400
criminals are sometimes stupid and they don't do the obvious
888
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:54.199
things because they haven't thought things through. So that could
889
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:57.199
just be simple and competence here where they just realize, oh,
890
00:43:57.239 --> 00:43:59.119
we should have taken the key piece of evidence that
891
00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:01.559
got rid of it, but we didn't because we're not
892
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:05.599
professionals and that just didn't cross our minds. So that
893
00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:07.519
about brings an end to part one of our series
894
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:10.079
about the murder of Patsy Wright. Join us next week
895
00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:10.800
for part two.
896
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:13.199
Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit
897
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:14.719
about the Trail Went Cold Patreon?
898
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:17.840
Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three
899
00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:21.639
years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like
900
00:44:21.719 --> 00:44:25.119
early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers
901
00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:28.000
and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up
902
00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:30.559
with us on Patreon. If you join our five dollars
903
00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:34.719
tier tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in
904
00:44:34.760 --> 00:44:37.880
which I talk about cases which are not featured on
905
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:41.239
the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon.
906
00:44:41.559 --> 00:44:44.039
And if you join our highest tier tier three, the
907
00:44:44.119 --> 00:44:47.039
ten dollars tier, one of the features we offer is
908
00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:51.400
a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsolved Mysteries,
909
00:44:51.639 --> 00:44:54.599
where you can download an audio file and then moot
910
00:44:54.679 --> 00:44:57.880
up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or
911
00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:01.320
YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in
912
00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:04.440
the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about
913
00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:07.920
the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very
914
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:10.760
first episode that I did a commentary track over was
915
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:13.599
the episode featuring this case. So if you want to
916
00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:16.360
download a commentary track in which I make more smart
917
00:45:16.360 --> 00:45:19.360
ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join
918
00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:20.159
Tier three.
919
00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:21.880
So I want to let you know a little bit
920
00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:24.599
about the Jeweles and n Ashy Patreons. So there's early
921
00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:27.639
ad free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got
922
00:45:27.679 --> 00:45:30.639
our Pathwent Chili mini's, which are always over an hour,
923
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:32.880
so they're not very mini, but they're just too short
924
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:35.920
to turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those.
925
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:38.519
So we hope you'll check out those patreons. We'll link
926
00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:39.639
them in the show notes.
927
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:42.039
So I want to thank you all for listening, and
928
00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:44.480
any chance you have to share us on social media
929
00:45:44.599 --> 00:45:47.559
with a friend or d rate and review is greatly appreciated.
930
00:45:47.719 --> 00:45:50.800
You can email us at the Pathwentchili at gmail dot com.
931
00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:53.679
You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwin. So
932
00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:56.400
until next time, be sure to bundle up because cold
933
00:45:56.440 --> 00:45:58.880
trails and chili pass call for warm clothing.
934
00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:02.239
Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy