Michelle Benson - Using LinkedIn As A Fundraising Engine

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Welcome to the other side, the Charity Freelancers Podcast.
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I'm Jane Curtis, and this is where we explore the journey from charity professional to thriving freelancer or business owner.
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Each week I chat with individuals who've made this leap from the charity sector, sharing invaluable practical tips and incredible insights firsthand.
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So whether you're considering making the move or you're already on your freelance journey, or you're just nosy and want to know what goes on behind the scenes of well-known freelance businesses, you're in the right place.
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So let's dive into today's conversation.
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After three decades working as a fundraiser in various charities, the Children's Society, Shelter, and Mencap amongst them, and then as a funder, Michelle Benson left traditional employment to build her own business from scratch.
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Using LinkedIn as a significant growth engine, she turned visibility into income and now helps others who are considering or navigating the leap to do it with confidence and clarity.
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Michelle, you're on the other side.
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Welcome.
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Really lovely to be here.
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Thanks for the invitation, Jane.
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Oh, delighted.
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And I know this is um audio, so people aren't seeing where you what I'm seeing right now, but you are.
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Do you want to just explain where you are?
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Well, I'm actually I obviously live, I'm British and I live in England.
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Um, but I'm based in Thailand for the month of March because I have an Australian cohort on the go.
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And of course, that's a 12-hour difference.
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So if you're in Thailand, it's a four-hour difference.
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And of course, I still have British clients and American clients and Canadian clients.
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So Thailand, it just so happens is perfect for my uh timing.
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And it's great because it's March and it's beautiful, so you know it's it's I'm loving being here.
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It's absolutely stunning.
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It looks it looks wonderful, like a picture postcard.
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Um, so first of all, I'd love to hear a little bit more about your charity background, what you were doing before you're you're doing what you're currently doing.
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Well, I um I started life in marketing, so I graduated um a degree in marketing and then got a job in Manhattan with a marketing agency.
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And when I was there, we had big um big American clients like American Express, Paramount, Nike, and we did have charitable partnerships, but they were really just you know, have a part, do your do your thing with your client, and then whack on a charity, bolt on a charitable partnership because it's good for PR.
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We can take a picture of a giant check, throw a bit of cash at it, giant check, little bit of you know, press mileage, all good.
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And so that that's what we did over and over and over again.
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And then um we I had a uh partnership with Nike, who then said that they wanted to use their brand values to see if they could enhance the social impact around bullying, and so that we partnered with the Boys and Girls Clubs of America, and it was much more of a strategic partnership, and it's much more what you and I would think of a corporate partnership today, but that was way back then, and it was great, and I got to work on that, and I worked on it over a period of years, so it went from you know dipping our toe in the water to just getting more and better and better at really you know creating this partnership, which was fantastic, and then when I came back to England, I thought this is great, this is what I want to do, because it didn't exist, and then um I got a job in-house as a corporate fundraiser with Shelter, and then I my first my first client or you know, first uh donor happened to be Adidas, ironically enough, and so then I did so then I started building up youth youth brand partnerships around cause-related marketing for shelter, and then from there I went, you know, finally became the head of corporate and then I moved on to being a fundraising director, and then you know, the the usual route pursued.
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And then in 2012, I then hopped over the fence and became a director of a trust fund.
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Oh, okay.
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So, what was the driving force for like hopping over the fence, as you say?
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Like, what was the motivation for doing that?
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Um it was well, the opportunity came up, I was headhunted, and so the opportunity came up, and it was, you know, do you want to go and work for a funder?
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And and it was like, that looks really interesting.
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And then when I went over and it was with the Impetus Private Equity Foundation, and then when I went for the job interview, it was just a fantastic job, and so you know, I was really happy to do it.
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And then when I got there, I started, we had um we had a pot of money that we were obviously investing into charities, and then what I did, I started looking at partnerships.
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So then I partnered with other trusts, corporates and major donors, in order to grow our pot of money and stop the duplication that we were doing with other funders.
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And so then I really, really got to see behind the scenes of how our trust fund, other trust funds, and and a variety, so anything from Garfield Western to you know, tiny little trust fund was operating, uh, as well as the corporate partners, again, a range of corporate partners and a range of major donors.
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And what was fascinating was like 18 years of being a fundraiser, when you then have a conversation with funders as a co-funder, it's a very different conversation.
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And that was quite an eye-opener uh for me.
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Yeah, I bet.
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And then how many years was it before you set up your own your own thing from that?
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About six.
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Yeah, six years.
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Yeah, and go on, sorry.
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So, yeah, so the so basically, whilst I was doing that, what I could really see was originally we had an open and application process, and so we were getting a tsunami of applications every day.
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Um, none we could there was no way we could fund the amount of applications that were coming through the door.
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Plus, there was a lot of spray and prey, so we were getting a lot of applications from people that didn't meet our giving criteria, but you don't know that until you start opening these application forms and reading them.
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And so eventually we closed our application fund, and all the people I was funding with were kept on saying, You're crazy, why don't you just close it?
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What's wrong with you guys?
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Why, you know, why are you allowing charities to spend all that time and effort putting in the application forms that you know you're not going to fund?
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What are you thinking?
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You know, and so um we closed our application and they said, right, no one solicited offers whatsoever, which was very much like the funders that I was funding with.
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Um, and so we then started proactively looking.
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And when we proactively looking, the quality of our pipeline just shot right up because we could we had time then to talk to our current grantees, other funders, do desk research.
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And I think people always say, Oh, but I'm a tiny little charity, how am I going to get found by a big you know, we weren't just looking for big names, we employed two people full-time.
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So if we we wouldn't employ two people full-time if we said let's just fund the big names.
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Because if I said to you, name five children's charities, you don't need to you don't need to go out and employ someone to name five children's charities, right?
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Yeah, but you do need to employ someone if I said, come on with five children children's charities, a range of maybe one big one, a couple of mediums, and three tinies, or something like that, then then you would.
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So actually, the more they employ people, the more they are proactively looking for a range of charities.
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Right, amazing.
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Yeah.
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So you, I mean, you've had such unique kind of background that that obviously really gave you a kind of very unique position that you'd seen it from kind of the in-house, the charity, and now from the kind of funding.
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So, what what did those two kind of perspectives teach you, I guess, about doing your own thing, like and working for yourself?
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Like what how how has that kind of moulded what you're now currently doing?
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Yeah, it actually exposed a humongous gap.
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Right.
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And the humongous gap is if I was a fundraiser, so if I got employed tomorrow as a fundraiser, let's say either a major donor, trust fund, or um corporate, I would go in and somebody would say, Okay, here's your target.
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And then they would uh then they would say, go and raise, you know, 250k this year from corporate say.
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I would then go and make, I would do some desk research and I would make up a list of corporates that I think we align with, and then I would go and say, Does anybody know these?
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Anybody trustees know them?
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Any relationship?
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No, we haven't got any networks, we've right, right?
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Let's start applying cold.
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And now I've got a cold call, all these people, but I know they're not going to respond to a cold call.
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So then I say, Let's put a drink stew on, or let's put a dinner on, or let's put something, you know, like some sort of lead magnet to get them in.
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Um, meanwhile, from the funding side of the fence, we get that all day long.
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Can I have coffee and advice?
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Would you like to come to a drinks do?
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Would you like you know, we you know, we see through that, like it's easy to see through that.
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You get 25 of those emails a day and you ignore them.
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Yeah.
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Um, and so if they phone me, I'm gonna get no caller ID, I'm not picking up.
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If they email me, I'm not in their contact, so it's likely to go to spam, I'm gonna ignore it.
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Or if they um, you know, just try to sort of blanket invitations or anything like that, I'm I'm just ignoring it basically.
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So from the the fundraiser is trying to bash at a lock door and trying to pick the lock, and the funders are proactively looking.
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And one of the things I noticed straight away is if somebody came and cold called us, everybody got annoyed.
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But if we found that person, then woohoo, clever us, look at us finding a great charity.
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Yeah so I immediately went to all my fundraising colleagues and said, you know, we're all looking.
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What are you doing to be found?
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And the answer was, well, our comms team do comms, but the comms team weren't going, I'm proactively putting myself in the pathway of funders who are looking.
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That's not what comms team do.
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Comms team do random, you know, overall awareness.
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And so the other thing is I think you've got comms teams raising awareness, corporate teams who everybody they reach out to is stone cold.
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So that awareness isn't targeted enough.
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And so I was okay, okay.
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If we're proactively looking, you need to put yourself in our pathway.
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And so in 2018, after talking to a lot of my own grantees, who we were obviously funding and working with them, and also just ex-colleagues and stuff like that, I then set up an online course, which was how to be found by high-value funders for corporate major donors and um trust funds.
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And then module three was using LinkedIn, and everyone fell in with it.
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There were four modules, but everybody fell in love with module three, you know.
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And then I got I kept on getting calls from people going, My friend's done your course.
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Can I just do module three?
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Or people will come back and go, I did your course, can my team just do module three?
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It's like bloody module three, like every and every all the other modules are like getting, you know.
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So so that's when I took module three kind of out of the main course and made its own course.
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And actually, ironically, since then a lot of the other modules have have migrated over as well.
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So it's it's a very full, it's not just how to use LinkedIn, it's a sort of full fundraising strategy to say, use LinkedIn, be found.
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Um, and when you get and when you get found, they want to call you.
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It's not just being found, you want them to then pick up the phone and go, I'd like to meet you, please.
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And what do you think it was about that module that really piqued everybody's interest so much?
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What what why is that possible?
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The reason everyone loves it is because it you can get really instant results.
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Yeah.
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Because um LinkedIn is a one-to-many tool, and normally a corporate fundraiser is doing everything one-to-one.
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So is a trust fund and so is a major donor fundraiser.
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And then all of a sudden, you put out a post or you leave a comment, and 700 corporates see it.
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So your chances of then being connected, you know, someone approaching you is significantly higher than you doing everything one at a time.
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And also, when you do everything one at a time, you're cold calling, you're interrupting.
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When you're on LinkedIn and you're being found, you're just starting a conversation in a really natural, friendly, lovely way.
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And that that's why people engage with you a lot more than oh my god, she's trying to sell me something, I better run away.
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Yeah, it's just a conversation and it's an easier way to do it, really.
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Yeah, I love how you um I I've got two questions.
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Well, one one is what have you seen change in the sort of eight years that you've been doing this?
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That would be the first one.
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The second one, I guess, is is a question, but also um a kind of piece of insight, I guess.
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I love the way that you position yourself now because you're you're disrupting like with your posts, you know, you're actually saying things that I think loads of fundraisers feel.
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You're saying it, you're being that kind of brave voice, which I think gives people that permission to kind of push the envelope a little bit.
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I just wanted to sort of share that.
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Um, but yes, what what did you what have you seen change in the last eight years?
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Um, I think the big thing really is the the pressure that fundraisers are under.
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It doesn't, you know, and the how charities completely dis um are sort of not connected to reality.
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I think that whole idea of I hire a fundraiser to rescue me from all my financial problems, not as someone to come in and build a you know, build a network for you and build a donor base and start, you know, really no, no, no.
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You can come in, weigh that magic wand.
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I can give you a bloody great target, even though we've never raised this money in our life, we don't necessarily have the impact evidence, we don't have the budget, we don't have the network, we you know, we don't have the maybe the stewardship package or anything, but you're all right, you can do it.
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Again, you know, that's sort of that unrealistic, it's always been like that, I think.
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But the the pressure that people are under to raise large sums of money at speed, regardless of the situation that the charity is in or not in, is is I think is becoming even more stark.
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Like constantly that you know, every every three to five year strategy says double the income or triple the income.
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It's like you've never tripled or doubled your income in your life, and nor are all the other charities that have that strategy, they've never done it either, but you still start every bloody strategy off with, you know, let's double the income in three years or triple the income in five years.
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It's like a standard, you know, pull pull some random number out of a hat and then run with it.
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And uh yeah, I I think so so what I'm seeing therefore is the external world, the funding world is changing quite uh, you know, um quite significantly, but the internal fundraising expectations uh have stayed the same.
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And I think if you're ever in a situation where you are out of sync with your environment, life is going to be hard.
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The more you're in sync with your environment, the easier your life is, the more you're out of sync with your environment, the harder your life is.
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But those that hard, the you know, the sucky bits of it get parked at the fundraiser's feet rather than necessarily or the CEO.
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Often it's the CEO, the CEO's a fundraiser too, right?
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So it can be the CEO as well.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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Um, so tell me, and this is probably quite a difficult answer a question to answer for for you, especially, but what what would be a typical week in your in your work?
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Right, okay.
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Well, because I I so I basically run an online course and the course takes people through a very clear strategy.
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So we start with what's your goal?
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And most people come up with tactics, and then I'm going, no, no, that's not a goal.
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And you know, then it's like who's your who?
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And I take them through a process to identify donors.
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Then I take them through how to write a case of support that is LinkedIn friendly, so you get lots of attention.
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So then I help write that with people.
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Then I help them completely revamp their profile so that when they are found, well, A by changing your profile, it changes your news feed to see more funders and ACU.
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Plus when people come to you, they're more likely to give you, you know, uh want to connect with you.
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Then I take three people through how to write content and/or comment, because a lot of people don't want to do content so a commenting strategy, how to build a network, and then how to connect it to your website and all the rest of it.
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So a typical week is me supporting people in one of those wherever they're at.
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So, you know, maybe so.
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This week, for example, um with the Aussies, we're really focusing, we're on the stage where we're rewriting everybody's case of support.
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So this week has been a lot of case of support writing.
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Next week when we go into profile, so I'll be doing a lot of profile next week.
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So it's always running through that cycle, really.
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Yeah.
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That's my typical week.
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And what format do those courses take?
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Like what's the duration?
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Are they all the same, or do you have them at different levels depending on where you work?
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No, it's pretty much the core, and so basically, is a core set of videos that people watch, and then there's a couple of live webinars as well, and then behind every video is a one-to-one chat with me.
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So I just, you know, you you know, people ask different questions depending where they're at, or you know, and so therefore, that's the that's how it becomes more bespoke.
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Yeah, love it, brilliant.
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So tell me about some challenges that you faced as as a business owner in the last eight years.
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What are some of those?
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Well, I think I think most business owners will recognise that you are the horsepower of your business, right?
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So especially because I'm a one-man band and I I would like to stay a one-man band.
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Everything everything I've grown, I've grown with me just being one, because I also love the traveling element.
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So I you know, I taught a South African cohort, I was in Florida, you know, so I'm traveling all the time as well as you know, um home office for me is a home all over the world, not just necessarily in Surrey Rapid.
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Um so I am the horsepower behind the business.
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So the more I develop me, the more the business develops.
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The more I don't develop, the more the business gets stuck, basically.
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And last year, in fact, it was a year ago, it was March um 25, I really took some time, I took a week out and just really looked at all the data and really reflected on everything.
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And one of the things that I came, I suddenly realized was if you look at my business in terms of like me going up a ladder in terms of my own development and the business sort of growing, I realised that I've I hang about on the rung too long.
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So I know what the next rung is, but and and I do take it.
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I just don't take it quickly.
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I just you know, I get I go up to the next run and then it's a little uncomfortable, and then I get comfortable and I don't want to get uncomfortable again, so I stay on the rung a bit too long.
00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:16.720
Then eventually I get annoyed with myself, so I go up to the next level, then it's uncomfortable for a bit, it gets comfortable again, and I'm like, I'm you know, and so so this year the challenge has been right, go up faster.
00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:22.640
Okay, don't don't hang about on the rungs so long, because you know you've you're kidding yourself basically.
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:28.960
You know, you know what the next step because you know when you the every time you take the next step, the next step lights up, doesn't it?
00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:32.640
And then you take that step, and then the following step lights up.
00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:38.079
So it's you know, and that and I keep and I know I am the horsepower of the business.
00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:40.640
If I don't develop, the business doesn't develop.
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:43.599
Um, so that's been my challenge this year.
00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:46.000
Stop loving the comfort.
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:48.720
And what have you what have you found to help?
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:53.119
Like what tools and techniques or support are you are you leaning into?
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:59.759
I just I just try to recognize if I'm making an excuse, nothing could good comes.
00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:04.480
From out, you know, if you make excuses, nothing good is going to come out of an excuse, right?
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:13.119
And so the minute I start making excuses that oh well it's actually probably not a good time this month, or oh well, I better not do it now because I'm about to travel, or I better not do it.
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:27.519
You know, as soon as I hear myself saying that type of thing, then I recognize okay, that's an excuse, that's you of that's avoidance, and then I then I make a point of trying to push myself to to do things.
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:29.920
Yeah, I mean it's a real skill, isn't it?
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:34.400
It's almost like catching the bullshit, like you're catching the story, aren't you?
00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:37.119
Before exactly, yeah.
00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:40.480
And I still do it, I still have a good excuse for a couple of weeks.
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:41.119
You know what I mean?
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:48.400
I'm not brilliant at it, but um, at least now I've got a system where I've consciously recognised it.
00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:55.519
And looking back, I think, you know, for Christ's sakes, you really hung around on that rung for too long, and look what happened once you got going.
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:57.519
So, you know, pack it in basically.
00:22:57.759 --> 00:22:58.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:22:58.559 --> 00:22:59.200
I love that.
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:01.839
A little bit of motivating self-talk, it's great.
00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:04.720
Um what do you think gives you your edge?
00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:07.359
Like you've you've you've been very successful.
00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:08.880
What gives you that edge?
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:10.559
What keeps you sharp?
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:15.599
Um, I've got a really good strategy I teach, I do myself.
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:20.000
And so what I do is I live and breathe it, and then I turn around and iterate the course.
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:29.359
So I'm constantly iterating the course and the it, but but um fundamentally, I think using LinkedIn well has been an absolute game changer.
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:29.680
Yeah.
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:31.279
So a couple of things.
00:23:31.279 --> 00:23:32.960
I call it a digital twin.
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:35.119
So there's two me's, one salary.
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:37.440
So I go on LinkedIn.
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:41.519
So so this morning I went on LinkedIn and I've posted.
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:48.160
And then I've gone in and I've left some comments on other people's stuff, sent some invites out and all the rest of it.
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:51.759
I've closed LinkedIn down, and now here I am talking to you.
00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:56.960
And so but digital me still running around LinkedIn doing her thing.
00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.200
Real me is here talking to you.
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:01.359
So there's always two me's, one salary.
00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:06.240
So that's number one, having a digital twin is phenomenal.
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:14.720
Number two, um, LinkedIn allows me to be data driven because every post I put out comes with its own scoreboard.
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:19.359
How many impressions did it get, how many profile views did it get?
00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:25.039
What how many messages come on the end of it, how many people joined your website um email list because of it.
00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:30.079
So, so I'm completely data driven, and all this data is just there for me.
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:45.200
I don't, you know, and every time I put a link to a post to my website, I put it through Google Analytics so I can see, yeah, it's fun because you see the map light up and all the rest of it if you, you know, start using analytics well, which and I say that like I know what I'm doing.
00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:45.599
Mrs.
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:49.359
Super Basic Google Analytics here, like super basic.
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:50.400
Well, you're doing it.
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:52.240
I mean, that's already steps ahead.
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:54.799
Yeah, get the basics.
00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:58.799
Um, so digital twin, totally data-driven.
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:00.720
Every post becomes like a focus group.
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:09.519
People talk back at you, so it's this constant focus group, and everything I do, everything I do is one-to-many.
00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:12.880
I don't do consultancy, I don't do one-to-one.
00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:15.279
Everything I do is one-to-many.
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:20.160
And so, therefore, that enables me to not employ staff.
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:26.640
And you know, I would employ like an accountant or freelancers, but I'm not having got any full-time people.
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:31.599
Um because everything is massively leveraged.
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:41.200
And that, you know, and I decided that from the word go, and that's always been um, I mean, it may turn in eventually.
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:45.519
I might start doing one-to-one more, but right now everything is 100% one-to-many.
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:50.000
I mean, you've got the model, it's working, and you're you're traveling and you're living the life.
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:53.440
So you don't it doesn't sound like you need to tweak it.
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:59.359
Um so the LinkedIn is so um interesting to me because it's something that I talk to my clients about.
00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:00.319
Can you hear me?
00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:02.880
Yeah, it's just checking it's still working.
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:08.079
Um, I talk to my clients about being visible, you know, and how important that is when you work for yourself.
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:12.079
And and if you're attracting clients, you need to be visible, you need to be found.
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:14.559
You may you know it's similar to what you were saying earlier.
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:17.839
Um, and LinkedIn is such a great tool for that.
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:25.119
Um, but I'm really curious as to how it kind of how the LinkedIn thing really sort of blew up.
00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:29.680
Obviously, it was part of your course, but um, were you using it anyway?
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:35.200
Had you already got a bit of a profile there or or did it grow whilst you taught about it?
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:56.240
Yeah, so when I um before I started my own business, I didn't really have I had a profile I didn't really use, never posted, never really commented, um, was connected to about uh I think it was like 900 funders over the course of years and some ex-colleagues and whatnot, but no, wasn't really using it strategically at all.
00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:02.160
And then when I was looking at the, you know, how are we finding charities?
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:09.359
And if I was to put a course, if I, you know, I kept on as a funder was proactively looking and working, as I said, with other funders.
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:14.640
So I kept on putting myself in the shoes of what would I be doing if I was a fundraiser right now?
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:17.039
And that's where I developed the course.
00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:23.920
And then in the process of that, I then really um looked at all the social networks.
00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:36.880
I talked to all the funders, especially the major donors, they're all on LinkedIn, all the big corporate decision makers were on LinkedIn, the tr the you know, the trustees of trust funds, the funding directors were all on LinkedIn.
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:40.960
That was all they don't see it as it's interesting, they don't really see it as social media.
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:41.359
Uh-huh.
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:43.920
They see it as a tool for work.
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:47.119
And so, and they use it for work.
00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:54.960
And so it just became the natural place to build visibility, and that would be the pathway where people could find you.
00:27:54.960 --> 00:28:02.559
And actually, what I did do, um, I started off with just one big course, which was just for fundraisers.
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:02.799
Uh-huh.
00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:09.759
And then CEOs started doing it, comms people started doing it, because I also do team training as well as the big cohort.
00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:13.279
And then a lot of consultants started doing it.
00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:24.079
And so it was about a year ago that I then split the course up into LinkedIn for consultants, LinkedIn for CEOs, LinkedIn for commons staff, and LinkedIn for fundraisers.
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:27.119
And so I do those cohorts separately.
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:49.599
And one of the things that um when the consultants do the consultancy course, one of the things I'm constantly saying to consultants is when you are delivering for your clients, so you're doing the bid writing or you know, whatever you're doing, and you're delivering for those clients, you are making money for your clients.
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:55.839
When you are marketing yourself, that's when you're making money for you.
00:28:55.839 --> 00:29:03.839
And because so many consultants do that thing where they go, um, I haven't got time to market myself because I'm too busy.
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:07.680
So they go, busy, busy, like delivery, delivery, delivery.
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:08.880
That project ends.
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:12.160
It's like, oh bugger, need a new, need a new client now.
00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:19.599
Now we do the promotion, get a new client in, then you know, and that that's your cash, that's your cash flow gone, isn't it?
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:32.480
So having a digital twin where you're constantly out there with your visibility, you know, and it's not necessarily new clients either, it's great for current clients as well.
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:47.599
And the other thing that's really interesting for consultants, and this happened to me as well, when I very, very first started, um, fundraisers would find me and then go and say, Oh, I really want to do Michelle's LinkedIn course.
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:52.319
And then they would go internally and then say, I would like to take a LinkedIn course.
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:54.400
And people would say, Yeah, but you're not the comms team.
00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:55.680
You're a fundraiser.
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.319
We're not paying for you to go on a LinkedIn course.
00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:00.960
And so they would come back and go, I really want to do your course.
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:05.359
They're not going to pay for it, I'll pay for it myself or you know, whatever, or not do it.
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:17.279
And then when I started lifting my own visibility on LinkedIn, fundraisers now go back and go on to take Michelle Benson's course, and CEOs go, I love her, she's great, yeah, definitely do her course.
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:28.079
So I'm not only marketing to my the people doing the course, um, I'm being found and positioning to the budget holders and the decision makers.
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:36.240
And so it's that you're helping your clients internally get the permission to unlock the funding they need to work with you.
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:37.680
Yeah.
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:39.839
And so that's that was massive.
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:41.599
That just changed everything.
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:53.039
When when that I have never had anyone now for about five years come back and say, I can't do your course because I'm a fundraiser, and no one's ever come back and pushed me on price.
00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:54.000
Wow.
00:30:54.000 --> 00:31:02.880
And that's because I now have the dual um visibility amongst them and their decision makers.
00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:09.839
And this might again might be difficult to answer, but like how much time do you invest on LinkedIn?
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:11.920
Are you on it every single day?
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:13.359
Are you on it multiple times a day?
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:16.640
No, no, I post um I post three times a week.
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:19.839
So that that means I've got to create the post.
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:28.319
Although for the last month I've just been doing reposts, so I haven't created a post for a good month because I've got now got such a bank of material I can just repost.
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:31.839
So um you've got to create the post.
00:31:31.839 --> 00:31:33.440
I post three times a week.
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:41.680
I post, I spend an hour on it, so that's um Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursdays from eight o'clock to nine o'clock.
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:48.720
Um, and then I close down and then I might pop on for like 20 minutes on a Monday and on a Friday as well.
00:31:48.720 --> 00:32:00.880
But the thing is, for me, yes, I'm sort of so I've let's say on a week I'm doing a good six hours I invest into LinkedIn, but I've got a 24-7 presence.
00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:03.839
Yes, and I have an international audience.
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:13.279
So, you know, I've just recruited an entire Australian cohort, but I'm 12 hours, we have a 12-hour difference normally, you know what I mean?
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:17.279
But I'm still present in Australia as I am in UK.
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:24.880
So so even though I put six hours in, I get 24-7 hours out.
00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:27.680
Yeah, I love that.
00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:29.599
That's such a good reframe.
00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:30.640
It's brilliant.
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:34.960
Um, and I had a look before I came on just to see how many followers you have.
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:38.799
It's over 54,000, which is just astonishing.
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:42.079
And has that just grown quite organically through you doing the things?
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:46.160
And it's also completely targeted.
00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:53.680
So when people send me invitations, like this morning I got quite a few invitations, I didn't accept them because they're not my audience.
00:32:53.680 --> 00:33:01.200
So I don't accept um, you know, invitations from people that aren't my audience because there's there's no point.
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:16.160
Um, and yeah, so what I do so that has been extremely targeted group of people because I'm I'm so I could have easily been, you know, you there are ways you could make that like a hundred thousand, but then it's all random, and what's the point of that?
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:18.400
So there's no point.
00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:26.160
So so the 54,000 followers is absolutely wonderful, and it definitely helps the distribution of my posts and all that good stuff.
00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:38.240
But I'm more interested in um when I post how many people view my profile, how many people go and view my website, how many people sign up to my email list, how many messages.
00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:42.720
So last year I got about 3,000 direct messages that were good.
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:46.000
I get messages from like, you know, do you want to buy insurance?
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:48.640
And yeah, that crap as well.
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:51.279
But I don't know those, I don't count them.
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:58.880
Um so 3,000 incoming messages that were all you know really positive.
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:03.359
Um, and of course there's a knock-on effect, like we don't know each other, Jane.
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:06.240
You found me on LinkedIn, you've invited me onto your podcast.
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:07.359
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:18.719
You know, and so there's all that that's you know, and that you don't see that impact that's kind of those ripple effects, and you know, they're really wonderful, and it's you know, it's a really good thing.
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:20.159
No, absolutely.
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:28.800
Um, with the benefit of hindsight now, what would you have told Michelle at the start of your self-employed life?
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:32.480
I would have talked about the ladder and the rungs and the excuses.
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:40.000
I would have put a rocket somewhere in my anatomy and get up the bloody ladder.
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:43.199
But um, yeah, so that would be yeah, that would have been a big thing.
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:49.119
Like stop, you know, you are it, you know, really impress impress upon myself.
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:57.440
Your development is the business's development, and the more you slow it down or get stuck, the more the business is going to slow down and get stuck.
00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:00.800
So just keep taking those steps forward.
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:02.559
That that's what I would have said.
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:23.519
I did actually give myself one piece of I made a rule at the very beginning, which has been I've loved this rule, and it's now part of my um consultancy course, and that was from day one I said to myself that um cultural philanthropy, my company, uh is always going to be my number one client.
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:35.920
And I said, you know, like culture of philanthropy is gonna bring in all the business, it's gonna bring in all the clients, it's gonna bring in all the money, it's gonna create all the impact, it's gonna create the courses, it's gonna do everything, right?
00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:40.559
So if if that was an outside client, that would be your number one client.
00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:47.599
So I all from day one I've treated cultural philanthropy like a client.
00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:49.679
So it gets Monday.
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:52.079
So Mondays is a crucial day.
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:59.840
No meetings, no nothing happens on everything that cultural philanthropy needs gets done on a Monday, and nothing trumps it.
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:02.000
Absolutely nothing trumps it.
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:06.639
And so, and that has been an absolute winner.
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:14.480
I'm really glad I did that rule, and and it's I and I would highly recommend that rule to anybody who's running their own business.
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:15.519
Yeah, I love that.
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:20.960
I mean, it really is a relationship that needs nurturing and um pouring into, doesn't it?
00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:24.639
It's not something that you can just leave, um, like any relationship.
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:26.719
Um yeah, yeah, of course.
00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:28.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:37.760
Um, just quickly then before we finish, I'd love to know what you think we're gonna see in terms of change in the sector this year, next year.
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:42.320
Like what what do you feel are gonna be the big things that we're gonna have to keep an eye out for?
00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:56.960
I think um I think funders closing is just gonna get more and more, you know, funders being much more proactive and not just being, you know, not sat around waiting for cold calls.
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:04.239
And the more and the more the funders closed, the more pressure goes onto the ones that are open.
00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:19.119
And they, you know, so I was talking to uh trust funds this week who said they have a five million pound fund, they got 900 million pounds worth of applications for a five million pound fund.
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:20.559
They are now closing.
00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:23.599
They're like enough already, we're not doing this again.
00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:27.039
So they're closed, and and of course now they've closed.
00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:28.480
Where do all those applications go?
00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:29.760
They go to the next.
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:38.960
So I think this concept of we have to look at ways we engage funders and get our visibility up.
00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:48.639
So I think this whole thing about you really have to be visible, you have to be visible to the target market that you wish to engage with.
00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:55.039
Um and actually, I think there's still charities will still be slow.
00:37:55.039 --> 00:38:00.960
So that's the and a lot of people are slow, like a lot of consultants don't do any marketing.
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:07.039
So the more you do, the more you can get ahead of um the pack already.
00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:08.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:11.280
Um, so you've talked a bit about your courses.
00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:13.679
How can people find out more about those?
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:16.239
Is it best to connect with you on LinkedIn?
00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:18.320
I guess it probably is.
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:24.400
Well, Culture of Philanthropy is the website, so always Google that.
00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:25.760
Or uh, yeah, LinkedIn.
00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:28.000
Yeah, Michelle Benson from LinkedIn.
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:28.960
Amazing.
00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:35.119
Um if anyone's listening who isn't following Michelle, I absolutely do it because your posts are brilliant.
00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:41.599
They're so thought-provoking, they they do disrupt, they're a little bit like controversial sometimes, which I believe is.
00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:51.519
Um yeah, and I think you can tell just by the engagement and the comments underneath, you're sort of giving people um um validity and kind of permission.
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:53.599
I mean, I just really I really love that.
00:38:53.599 --> 00:39:02.000
I think you're you're doing an amazing job for fundraisers who feel very stretched and um and you know under the kosh at the minute.
00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:06.639
I think you yeah, so keep keep doing what you're doing, it's amazing.
00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:08.000
Thank you, Julie.
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:09.199
And thank you so much.
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:11.119
I've really, really enjoyed this conversation.
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:13.119
Thank you for joining today.
00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:16.559
Well, thanks for the invite, it's been really lovely to talk to you.
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And that's a wrap on another episode of the other side.
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If you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with a colleague who might be thinking about their own freelance journey or leave a review.
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And if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes.
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You can find all the links and resources we mentioned today in the show notes.
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And if you recognise you want more support to build or grow your freelance business, check out the charity freelancing course, which will take you from feeling stuck to confidently thriving as a successful freelancer or founder.
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It's a self-paced programme designed specifically to help charity professionals launch their life-changing and profitable freelance careers by breaking free from the employee mindset and embracing the abundant world of business ownership.
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For more information and to sign up, head to my website, JaneCurtisEvents.com.
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Until next time, keep exploring what's possible on the other side.