Ochelli Effect 9-23-2026 Larry Hancock

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Through conversation the ocelli effect is sponsored by wallstreetwindow.com and
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listeners like you and.
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Now the most underrated voice in all media chuck ocelli.
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Uh september.
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23rd okay uh 2026 allegedly according to that thing we
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call a calendar and this would be the second hour
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of the live broadcast but i'm likely going to split
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this into a second podcast because i had mike swanson
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with me in the first hour second hour i've got
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larry hancock and lately i've only been doing one hour
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at a time so we'll split them up for you
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But definitely a different subject unless the aliens are going
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to start buying bonds. I got to tell you, and
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I don't know, maybe they will.
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Why do I say that? I'm making a joke. UAPs,
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Larry's very serious work about that.
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And, you know, get an update and all this. Plus,
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there's an interesting article Larry sent me a link to
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as well, which discusses pattern recognition and behaviors and stuff
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like that.
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And my goodness.
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Sounds to me like it's right up the alley of
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the recent studies from the group that Larry's been working with,
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and oh, by the way, there's a book coming. Anyways, Larry,
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first of all, how are you doing tonight?
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Oh, I'm doing okay. It's cooling off a little bit, Chuck.
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Still extremely dry, but.
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Looking forward to that changing with fall, I hope.
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Listen, I wish it was dry here. The humidity is brutal.
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You know, we've had that, you know, serious and extreme
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heat wave in the southeast. And it's just, it's a
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bit much with the humidity, man. You know, I used
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to hear that when I was a kid. Well, the
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dry heat's not so bad. And I used to think
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heat is heat.
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But as I've gotten older, I realize I was wrong.
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Yeah.
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Because this humidity is terrible.
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It is absolutely awful. It's like swimming through ugliness. Anyway,
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forget about the weather reports. Let's get into other reports.
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UAPs.
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And we've discussed this before on the show, obviously. And
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I'd like to get an update once again about an
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upcoming release. Because I know there's at least one coming, right?
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Still? Or did it come out yet, the book, Larry?
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Uh, the book is out. Well, the book ships next week.
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Oh, it ships next week. Okay, that's why. A lot of.
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People do have copies that are reading it, have prelim copies,
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but it actually ships to the public for the pre-orders
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on the 29th, I think it is. So it's just
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about there.
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Okay, so we're days away from the public release of
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the book. What is it called, Larry?
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UFO Intentions, Decoding the Patterns.
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Which is a perfectly plain, you know, I almost wonder
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if your wife helped with that title. Cause we talked
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about that during your books before, because it sounds like
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a right nail on the head kind of thing and
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hitting it, uh, the way that your wife usually did
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with a lot of your book titles.
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Uh, did, did she have anything to do with naming
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this one?
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Actually not this one. This one comes from my friend, Ian,
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a coauthor in New Zealand. Uh, Ian came up, he
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is a data analyst. So, I came up with UFO
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intentions and he came up with decoding the patterns.
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Well, you know, perfect partnership there because, uh, this is
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what needs to be done. Now let's get into the
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relevance of this. Um, you know, we talked about it
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on the show and I was shocked to learn that
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there had actually been, you know, a response from a
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UAP or a UFO, whatever it is you want to
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call it at this point. Uh, you know, that we
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actually had a coherent and, um, you know, logical response
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to communications before, which told me something very interesting is
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that we now have, in my mind, proof that something
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we don't necessarily understand and can't track properly responded to us.
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So it's not some sort of weird phenomena. And you
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would think that it is not very likely to be
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some nation state with some bizarre technology. What is the
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danger and what is the odd patterns that you guys.
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Have been exploring?
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I mean, I know we've been over this before, but
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I mean, kind of a way to kick it off.
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And is Ian also the author of that article you sent?
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Yes.
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Yes, he is. Excellent. I will put a link in
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the show notes to it.
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OK, let me see if I can pull it up
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real quick here because I had.
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It a second ago. Yes. The Sentinel News, actually, it's on.
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And let's see. The UAP constraint hypothesis. Okay.
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Now, it's interesting because in the first paragraph, okay, he
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already talks about, look, there's certain pattern recognitions here. Again,
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sounds vaguely like the title of your book, you know,
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summarizes this. Pattern recognition, what is it that we've been
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able to witness and document over the years?
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Now, up to this point, we've.
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Talked about up to 1973 or so, right, regarding the
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historical record that you studied. But now you've gone beyond that.
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Is this book covering what is beyond that, or are
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we covering all of it?
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Well, in a way, yes or no. The basic study data,
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the 1,200 incidents that we We did the detailed analytics
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off of the pattern analysis, the structure analysis. That's 30
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years up to 1975. We do have further information now.
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We have further examples. But we don't have the data yet.
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We're starting to work on another 50 years of data, actually,
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another 3,000 or so reports. But that's not really the
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core of the book. Right. I think what we need
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to point out, however, is that so far from what
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we can see, the patterns per se don't change. And
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I think that's what the important, what the real important
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part of this is that up to now, up today,
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up to the government release last week of their sixth
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release of UFO quote-unquote files that have never been released,
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but 90% of which have been, you know, they're putting
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out videos they're putting out tapes that sort of thing
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um but most of it you know everybody was shocked
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to listen to a tape and i heard it on
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several news shows uh in a recent release of the
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head of project blue book back in 1952 talking about
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how real this all was and i'm kind of beating
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my head against the walls like the man wrote a
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book He said all this. This has been common knowledge
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for decades, but we just never can seem to get
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over the fact that it really is consistent. The UAP
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behavior over time is very consistent. You mentioned signaling. You
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mentioned some indication of trying to communicate with us. In
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the late 40s and 50s and There were routinely daylight
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observations of UFOs flying formations at very high speeds, maneuvering together,
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clearly displaying intelligent behavior. There's just no doubt about it.
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One of the most recent reports to come out is
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about two years ago from the White Sands area of
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New Mexico. It talks about a seven-hour experience of UFOs.
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Dozens of witnesses and helicopters and jets and radar tracking
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of a series of what they recall orbs, but they're
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just lights, and they're reflecting radar, so they're real. And
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at the end of all of this, after seven hours
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playing around, they're observing these things, and they line up.
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They make a line, and they start turning their lights
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off in sequence and turning their lights back on in sequence. Again,
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formation flight, very high speed, signaling. They're doing the same in,
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you know, 2024 that they were in 1950. And we
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still can't seem to get the message nor attempt to
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reply to the message.
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Hmm.
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Well, that is interesting because, look, order in the data
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is one of those things that, you know, Donald Thomas
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used to talk about when he was analyzing stuff, right?
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And I've always.
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Stuck to that, is that when you see order in
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the data that makes a suggestion, don't ignore it. Uh,
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but apparently that's, what's gone on here and it's gone
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into common lore basically that, oh, you know, it's just
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the belief of crazy people that, you know, there is.
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Intelligent something, uh, outside of us basically, you know what
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I mean? It's like, you know, you can believe in angels,
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but aliens is too far. I get it. Uh, but
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you know, calm down.
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I'm not even saying that they are, but there's something
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well beyond our understanding because we're not able to shoot
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them down.
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We're not able to deal with them.
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I mean, we talked about that well-publicized incident where a missile,
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a Hellfire missile went and was pretty much dealt with
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by this craft or whatever it was. It was unaffected by,
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you know, I don't know how much those missiles are,
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but extremely expensive and fairly elaborate, powerful military equipment was
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rendered useless real quick. Kind of tells me we're dealing
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with something a bit beyond our capabilities here. And unless again,
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you know, the Russians or Chinese or somebody has a
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secret program that nobody has discovered yet.
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Um, they got to be coming from somewhere. Anyway, you know,
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do we have, you know, issues about that? Maybe so.
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But the idea that it's insane is really beyond the
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pale at this point. Larry, go ahead.
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Well, this dates back to 1945, 1947. There's just no
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possibility we were talking about the Russians back then or
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the Chinese, for the example. And the book presents a
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very clear case. The book presents a very clear case
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for Russia. A non-human intelligence. A non-human intelligence that's been
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here and engaging with us. Engaging us more in the
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early decades than they do now. These days, in the
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last 20, 30 years, they pretty much just ignore us
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and do whatever they're doing. And we may tend to
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stumble across them in our military operations or in our
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exercises or... They don't make the same daylight displays, the
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same overt kind of messaging. We're here. We're different. Respond
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to us. And we're still responding in the same way
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that we were back then. As you said, one of
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the things we present in the book is a very
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detailed discussion of what contact with non-intelligent beings– would look like,
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with what contact even with non-human intelligences on Earth looks
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like because we have that experience. We have that experience
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in ethnology with whales and dolphins and elephants who, after
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some generations, we learned actually are intelligent and communicate back
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to us. We have the experience with indigenous peoples. We
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know what that looks like. And what it does not
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look like in any successful form is when you rush
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at them and threaten them, which we continue to do
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after 80 years whenever the UFOs display to us.
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Well, like different apes being taught sign language. I mean, look,
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there is a way to communicate.
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At a certain point with yes it's another intelligence uh
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you know some people would argue lower life forms or
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whatever but these that are trying to communicate with us
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look if they've tried for 75 years and they haven't
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gotten the proper responses what are they going to do
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but ignore us i mean we might be a much
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lesser species in there in the order of things.
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Here Probably what they're very puzzled by, and we present
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this in the book. It's one of the big pattern
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changes that we note in the book is that for
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the first couple of decades, they do go through what
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you would consider to be a regular contact protocol. They
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present themselves. They present themselves very publicly. They present their
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technological capabilities publicly. you know, maneuvering at high speeds. There's
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just no doubt that they're there and they're making them visible.
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And we just consistently respond to them as if they are,
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you know, adversaries because, you know, that's just what we're doing.
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But after about 20 years of that, they begin to
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shift patterns. And that's very interesting because There is a
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new move towards, I wouldn't call it covert, but there's
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more nighttime activity. There's more activity in isolated areas. We're
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not talking about daylight over Albuquerque, New Mexico, or Seattle.
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We're talking about a UFO by the side of the
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road in Indiana at 11 o'clock at night, and the
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UFO comes across it. This is different. And the UFOs
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attempt some sort of engagement. And our assessment we present
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in the book is we feel that they were actually
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very possibly puzzled by us. being clearly having a technological
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intelligence on some level. I mean, we know quantum theory.
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We can make atomic weapons. You know, we have basic
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electromagnetic communications. Right. But we don't seem to understand what's
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going on around us. So we think that behavioral testing
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may have begun to occur at that point in time
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for them to try to kind of like figure out
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why it is that we don't seem to perform like
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adults anymore. You know, we just– we don't seem to
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grasp what's going on.
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Well, that's why I made the comparison with the apes because, look.
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At a certain point, the apes are limited.
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Right.
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And so we look at them in that way.
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We're communicating with them, but they're limited. So what have
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people done, studied for decades, you know, whether it's Jane
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Goodall or whoever, studied for decades exactly what the behaviors are,
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how they organize themselves socially, et cetera, et cetera. There
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is no reason for some other species to not look
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at us and go, well, let's figure this out because
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we tried showing up and just saying hello and they
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didn't get that.
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Uh, so now what do we do? Let's see how
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they behave and see what we can deal with.
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And you know what might be a better idea to
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not be always, you know, uh, viewed as an adversary
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and always have, you know, weapons pointed at us every
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single time we show up.
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If, uh, we don't even let them see us in
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the first place. I mean, that's logical.
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No. Yeah.
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The strange thing is we have learned over and over again.
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You mentioned the chimpanzees, but we've learned with dolphins, uh,
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With whales, with elephants, with dolphins. The dolphins came to
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recognize that the scientists were sending them acoustic signals in
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certain patterns.
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Right.
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And the dolphins began to respond with those same patterns.
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And then we learned that these are actually.
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And so these earthly, earthly biome intelligences, you might call
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them lower or not, but the point is they were
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able to recognize us and attempt to communicate with us. Effectively,
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because now at some levels we can communicate with graphics,
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with both elephants, with chimps, with acoustics, with the dolphins
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and the whales. And yet we haven't displayed the similar
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ability to respond to the UFOs. So where do we
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fit on the scale?
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Yeah, well, that's the tough part here.
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And, you know, meanwhile, like I say, in the public's consciousness,
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though— What you're saying is not generally accepted, though, is it?
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No, and I think part of it is that it's
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the structured answer that you always get. You get from
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the Pentagon. You get from the government body that's set
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up to look at it now, and the response always is, well, yeah,
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we've identified some percentage of these that we can't explain. And,
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of course, the explanation is always in terms of physics
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and Or atmospheric phenomena. Interestingly enough, if you look at
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the reports coming out of the Aerial Phenomena Resolutions Office now,
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they list a higher percentage of unexplained as we were
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doing back in the 1960s. You know, back then it
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was routinely 2 to 4 percent that we can't explain.
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Now it's like 10 or 20 percent that we can't explain.
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But And here's the big difference. I think this is
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where our book stands out and our studies stand out. Officially,
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they always just took those things that they couldn't explain,
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set them aside, put them in a file, and said, oh, yeah,
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if we ever get more data, maybe we'll be able
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to explain this. And my response is, no, that is
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the data. You don't understand. That is the data. You
301
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need to treat it as data. and start studying it
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as you would any data of reports and incidents. You've
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got geography, you've got time and day, you've got locations,
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you've got activity, you've got physical characteristics. Study it like
305
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I would as a data scientist, but there's never any
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move to look at it like that. It's like, actually,
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we don't want to deal with it because we've we
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wouldn't be able to give you an answer like we
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do now, which is just to say, well, don't worry
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about it. They don't seem to be hostile, which is true.
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I mean, and that's a good thing. They don't seem
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to be hostile. So I'll give them that credit.
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Yeah.
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But the thing is, is situationally, like, let's just say,
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for instance, if there was a higher percentage of these
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happening in the day and it was over certain population
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centers where the population density was.
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Higher, that would be in and of itself an indicator
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or something. Right. I mean, if that was a pattern
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in the data.
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And you discovered or not discovered, I've heard this before,
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but you confirm that there was a higher percentage of
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this stuff around certain weapons facilities and things at a
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certain point during certain time periods, it seemed like.
325
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Right.
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So that data in and of itself indicates a curiosity
327
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about particular things if that's where they're constantly showing up.
328
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No.
329
00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:50.539
Yeah, that data is another indicator of intelligent activity. of
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intelligent agency. And nobody, again, officially has ever looked at
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it like that. You'll hear them make remarks about, oh,
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there seems to be unusual levels of activity around Hanford
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or Oak Ridge or Sandia Base, but then they just
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let it lie. I mean, back in 1952, Edward Ruppelt,
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who was leading the Air Force Blue Book effort, was
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impressed enough with that sort of, you know, kind of
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pattern to push it, took it to the CIA. The
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CIA at first rejected the whole idea and laughed at it,
339
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but when they saw him plot this stuff out on
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a chart, it's like, oh, geez. And that ended up
341
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in it being taken to a proposal to take it
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to the National Security Council. It's a long story and
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very political as to why that didn't happen. But even
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back then, you know, in the 50s, that pattern was clear.
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What we did was to look in much greater detail
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at different patterns as the patterns evolved over time as
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they did. because the patterns themselves of activity moved along
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with atomic weapons. At first, it was at development sites,
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radioactive material sites. Then it moved on to bomb assembly sites,
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different locations. Then it moved on to deployment sites for
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the weapons, again, different locations. And And the clear trend
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is when it moved on to the next phase, it
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stopped at the earlier phases. So again, clear evidence of
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intelligent agency and an agenda.
355
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Well, there you go. Has the criteria changed? Is that
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what's happened here?
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Or has the behavior changed in order to make it
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so that there's less reason to go deeper into the analysis?
359
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Well, we went basically as far as As far as
360
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the pattern goes, what it would appear is that the
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interest is in our atomic weapons capability. It's not just
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in our knowledge of quantum physics or atomic physics. It's
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the weapons that draw their interest.
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So in other words, they're not just over reactors. They're
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at places where weapons are being stored or where they're
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being– Put.
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On missiles or put in sack bombers, and they're not–
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generally speaking, there's a very low level of observations at
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atomic power plants.
370
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Okay. That was my question.
371
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So it's not just– yeah, absolutely. That's the point.
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So it's not just a general interest in atomic energy.
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It's a matter of, no, we want to see what
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the weapons are because clearly that's.
375
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Where they're going. They're not– yeah, okay, gotcha.
376
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But that's just one of the patterns that is notable.
377
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What did the official response, you know, did the official
378
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response reckon with that?
379
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No, because nobody ever studied it that way. I guess
380
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that's the answer. Throughout the history of Blue Book, throughout
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the first 30 years, and now, the way it's being
382
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studied now is one report at a time. the approach
383
00:23:09.750 --> 00:23:12.890
is we'll take that report, we'll look for that, you know,
384
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kind of one golden report that absolutely proves these are extraterrestrials.
385
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And if we can't find it, and if we find it,
386
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you know, we can't, we'll come up with an explanation
387
00:23:24.579 --> 00:23:27.279
if we can. If we can't, we'll file it away.
388
00:23:27.339 --> 00:23:31.500
Maybe somebody will look at it later. But no, nobody ever,
389
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:38.299
nobody has done any pattern analysis. That's just the real answer. Actually,
390
00:23:38.420 --> 00:23:41.140
one of the One of the reviewers for our book,
391
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who was an assistant deputy of defense, gave us the
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remark that said, you know, these guys are doing what
393
00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:53.380
the Defense Department should have done a long time ago.
394
00:23:54.279 --> 00:23:54.759
Well, right.
395
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One would have thought that if you had a, you know,
396
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a good enough grouping of events, let's call them, that
397
00:24:03.460 --> 00:24:06.069
somebody might have tried to find, you know, what is
398
00:24:06.109 --> 00:24:09.539
the pattern here? Why does this keep happening? Is there
399
00:24:09.619 --> 00:24:13.180
some draw? Is there some reason for this? One would
400
00:24:13.220 --> 00:24:16.279
think that would be one of the early logical steps
401
00:24:16.339 --> 00:24:19.589
here in analyzing, especially if you're going to do threat
402
00:24:19.619 --> 00:24:21.890
assessment and everything else. If you don't know what the
403
00:24:21.930 --> 00:24:24.009
hell's going on and you don't know what patterns are there,
404
00:24:24.410 --> 00:24:26.329
how are you going to even assess a threat? See,
405
00:24:26.849 --> 00:24:30.430
they jump to this idea that, okay, it's non-confrontational. We
406
00:24:30.470 --> 00:24:35.029
don't see them being destructive in their behavior, but that
407
00:24:35.269 --> 00:24:40.690
alone does not indicate uh exclusively anyway that there's no
408
00:24:40.769 --> 00:24:44.380
hostility there to that that's an assumption being made it
409
00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:45.779
could be listen.
410
00:24:45.460 --> 00:24:48.599
Let's get all the information and see how this goes over.
411
00:24:48.460 --> 00:24:52.500
Time and hostility is still coming uh but only after
412
00:24:52.579 --> 00:24:56.829
they do a full you know analysis of us uh you.
413
00:24:56.750 --> 00:24:59.130
Know what i'm saying like in other words yeah yeah
414
00:24:59.190 --> 00:25:03.849
go ahead In surveillance and reconnaissance, we always maintain and
415
00:25:03.890 --> 00:25:08.660
we've always maintained that we, everybody, we, the U.S., flew
416
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:12.720
stratospheric balloons over the Soviet Union. We flew U-2s over
417
00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:17.000
the Soviet Union. We flew SR-71s over the Soviet Union.
418
00:25:17.559 --> 00:25:21.950
We flew B-29s over the Soviet Union. And our point was, hey, guys,
419
00:25:22.049 --> 00:25:24.430
we're not a threat to you. We just need to
420
00:25:24.470 --> 00:25:26.980
determine if you're a threat to us. So don't feel
421
00:25:27.019 --> 00:25:29.660
bad about this. You know, and then they constantly tried
422
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:32.500
to shoot our aircraft down and on many occasions did.
423
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:37.029
But our position was, you know, we're not really hostile.
424
00:25:37.069 --> 00:25:39.730
We're not really a threat. It might look like that,
425
00:25:39.769 --> 00:25:44.289
but trust us, we're really not. You know, so documenting
426
00:25:44.369 --> 00:25:49.230
reconnaissance and surveillance is You just don't know. You can
427
00:25:49.269 --> 00:25:52.329
document it's happening, but you don't know where it will
428
00:25:52.369 --> 00:25:57.009
go long term. So your point is well taken. But
429
00:25:57.069 --> 00:25:59.859
I think a better answer to the point and to
430
00:25:59.890 --> 00:26:04.099
the question is you have to understand the intelligence community
431
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:13.180
in the U.S. Intelligence occurs at many levels. Military organizations, again,
432
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:20.799
they take these– Security reports, incident reports, and they're relative
433
00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:24.460
to a particular location and time and installation. And if
434
00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:29.569
they go away, it's done. It's like, you know, if
435
00:26:29.740 --> 00:26:32.950
I had this sighting, I reported it, and if nobody
436
00:26:32.970 --> 00:26:36.509
hangs around or comes back, it's considered not to be hostile,
437
00:26:36.569 --> 00:26:39.470
not to be a threat, and it's done. It doesn't
438
00:26:39.990 --> 00:26:44.519
get analyzed. What would have to happen is there are
439
00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:49.119
levels of intelligence within the community that do threat and warnings,
440
00:26:49.299 --> 00:26:53.119
what's called strategic intelligence. But that's way up and has
441
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:56.819
to be assigned by the National Security Council. Okay. And
442
00:26:56.839 --> 00:27:01.960
the National Security Council has to say this category, this category,
443
00:27:02.380 --> 00:27:05.230
you know, Whether in the old days, it's just the
444
00:27:05.269 --> 00:27:09.630
Soviet Union and China. Now it includes drugs and terrorism.
445
00:27:09.930 --> 00:27:12.019
Somebody would have to add to the list, which we
446
00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:14.740
get to see, by the way. I've got books back
447
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:18.079
for many years, like what's on the list to treat
448
00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:21.740
from a strategic standpoint. UFOs never made it onto the list.
449
00:27:22.339 --> 00:27:26.880
Which is odd because, look, there have been interactions here, though,
450
00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:33.609
where There was reported interference, right, that occurred in certain operations,
451
00:27:34.609 --> 00:27:35.849
and one could.
452
00:27:35.710 --> 00:27:39.029
Judge that as, you know, as one thing or another, right?
453
00:27:39.150 --> 00:27:42.380
I mean, there's that whole incident at the one base
454
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.359
where stuff, you know, was being interfered with on an.
455
00:27:45.380 --> 00:27:49.700
Electrical level, right? while these things were present. Now, do
456
00:27:49.740 --> 00:27:53.140
we know if that was intentional to prevent something? Do
457
00:27:53.180 --> 00:27:56.099
we know what the deal was? No, we don't, because
458
00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:59.069
nobody ever bothered to go past probably documenting that. Am
459
00:27:59.150 --> 00:27:59.849
I right or wrong?
460
00:28:00.650 --> 00:28:03.269
Well, you document it as a problem that you need
461
00:28:03.289 --> 00:28:04.329
to understand to fix.
462
00:28:04.690 --> 00:28:04.789
Yes.
463
00:28:04.930 --> 00:28:07.829
And you document it as a glitch in the system,
464
00:28:07.869 --> 00:28:11.220
and if it doesn't occur again, okay, fine. I think
465
00:28:11.900 --> 00:28:15.359
probably a more dramatic illustration of that is that back
466
00:28:15.420 --> 00:28:19.440
in the 1960s, when we were flying, SAC was flying
467
00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:24.049
aerial alert missions, we would send bombers out over Canada.
468
00:28:24.549 --> 00:28:27.349
They would go to their bingo points, which is a
469
00:28:27.410 --> 00:28:31.890
certain distance from the Soviet Union, and orbit. And, you know,
470
00:28:31.910 --> 00:28:34.670
if they got an emergency action message, it's like, okay,
471
00:28:34.710 --> 00:28:37.660
we just went to war. If not, come back. We'd
472
00:28:37.700 --> 00:28:41.119
sent them, there was another route going across the Mediterranean
473
00:28:41.140 --> 00:28:44.680
to southern Russia. And in some of the flights going
474
00:28:44.779 --> 00:28:49.019
out over Canada, the pilots began to report that they
475
00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:54.839
would report UFOs trailing them, tracking them, and they would
476
00:28:55.299 --> 00:29:03.930
report intense jamming, jamming, multispectral jamming, or focus jammage. Basically,
477
00:29:03.970 --> 00:29:07.609
the jamming was sufficient to take their own radars offline,
478
00:29:07.789 --> 00:29:11.109
and since SAC did its job, Bombing by radars, that
479
00:29:11.150 --> 00:29:15.009
essentially disabled those missions. And there are reports, which we
480
00:29:15.049 --> 00:29:19.230
cover in the book, which SAC responded to that. They
481
00:29:19.269 --> 00:29:24.539
sent crews up to Greenland. We think it's probably the Russians.
482
00:29:25.099 --> 00:29:28.519
But they were never able to tie that down to
483
00:29:28.539 --> 00:29:31.440
the Russians, and eventually that stopped. And so it just
484
00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:35.890
becomes history. But it, too, never went outside sack. you
485
00:29:35.910 --> 00:29:38.750
know it never was elevated higher.
486
00:29:38.430 --> 00:29:42.539
Well because one area of focus would be let's prevent
487
00:29:42.619 --> 00:29:46.430
this next time wherever it came from And so we'll
488
00:29:46.549 --> 00:29:49.410
upgrade things. We'll make it so there's, you know, less
489
00:29:49.490 --> 00:29:51.559
of a possibility for somebody to be able to jam
490
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:54.319
things like that, right? So they might have upgraded some
491
00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:57.660
equipment or whatever, but they don't go beyond that. Like,
492
00:29:57.940 --> 00:30:00.400
to figure out exactly who did it, I mean, a
493
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:03.299
couple of guesses, but that's it, and close it, right?
494
00:30:03.380 --> 00:30:05.859
Because now we've upgraded it, and it's done. I mean,
495
00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:10.609
is that not the mentality, or am I misunderstanding this?
496
00:30:11.029 --> 00:30:13.950
If it never reaches the level of being classified as
497
00:30:14.049 --> 00:30:14.589
a threat.
498
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:21.599
A documented threat where there is hostile action, there's damage caused, whatever,
499
00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:25.900
whether it's at a missile site with an aircraft, then
500
00:30:26.049 --> 00:30:29.269
it doesn't get elevated up. That's why you're still getting
501
00:30:29.289 --> 00:30:34.089
the same response. No hostile action has been confirmed. So
502
00:30:34.589 --> 00:30:38.349
it's not a threat. It's not perceived as an ongoing threat.
503
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:42.759
So it doesn't get elevated for study. Now, the interesting
504
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:44.720
thing of that, of course, is that there are other
505
00:30:44.779 --> 00:30:50.859
types of adversarial activity, whether it has to do with
506
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:55.980
China or Russia, where it does get put on the list.
507
00:30:56.299 --> 00:31:00.420
It's just that UFOs– I think the real reason is, again,
508
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:04.759
somebody has to step up and say UFOs are real.
509
00:31:05.539 --> 00:31:10.240
And there was nobody in– The highest level of the
510
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:15.299
national security infrastructure, there were no academics, there were no
511
00:31:15.380 --> 00:31:21.240
scientists that were ever willing to take that risk. Lower levels, yes,
512
00:31:21.380 --> 00:31:24.500
but not at the higher level. And that's, you know,
513
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:30.930
it's essentially institutional denial. Nobody is willing to bet their life.
514
00:31:32.069 --> 00:31:36.430
tenure or nobody's willing to bet their position on making
515
00:31:36.450 --> 00:31:39.230
that kind of statement. And so it just never happens.
516
00:31:39.289 --> 00:31:44.690
I think the most interesting single incident, there are a
517
00:31:44.690 --> 00:31:47.839
few times when reports got to the National Security Council.
518
00:31:47.980 --> 00:31:53.079
One of them was fascinating. Basically, radar tracks something moving
519
00:31:53.140 --> 00:31:57.779
across the entire United States at 8,500 miles an hour.
520
00:31:57.980 --> 00:32:01.519
I think this was in the mid about 57, something
521
00:32:01.539 --> 00:32:06.359
like that, and it was moving east to west. And
522
00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:09.930
it gets discussed. The CIA actually brings it into a meeting,
523
00:32:10.089 --> 00:32:14.789
and so it's discussed. And the response is, well, we
524
00:32:14.829 --> 00:32:18.390
know the Russians couldn't do this. It can't be the Russians.
525
00:32:18.890 --> 00:32:22.759
It's down in the atmosphere. It's going east to west.
526
00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:25.950
It's not a satellite. The Russians can't do it. So
527
00:32:25.970 --> 00:32:29.210
if it's not the Russians, who cares? And it goes away.
528
00:32:31.130 --> 00:32:33.730
We're worried about the threats that really concern us at
529
00:32:33.789 --> 00:32:36.269
any given point in time. Right.
530
00:32:36.450 --> 00:32:39.359
But that leaves a lot of open territory here for
531
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:40.819
what are they doing?
532
00:32:41.819 --> 00:32:45.079
You know, and a lot of unanswered questions, right?
533
00:32:46.180 --> 00:32:48.299
Well, and that's what we try to deal with in
534
00:32:48.339 --> 00:32:52.109
the book. Basically, we look at the patterns of behavior.
535
00:32:52.670 --> 00:32:57.230
In the book, we set up Six different scenarios, all
536
00:32:57.289 --> 00:33:06.029
the way from reconnaissance, surveillance, all the way across to exploitation.
537
00:33:08.589 --> 00:33:12.869
And we go through an analytical process with the patterns,
538
00:33:12.970 --> 00:33:16.130
with the trends, with the indicators. We come up, I
539
00:33:16.170 --> 00:33:21.369
think we used 37 different indicators that you could assess
540
00:33:21.450 --> 00:33:25.460
these different scenarios by. And we went through each one
541
00:33:25.740 --> 00:33:29.680
and made an assessment of– with the indicators that are
542
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:34.589
seen over the study period, what are the highest probabilities
543
00:33:34.750 --> 00:33:38.589
among those six indicators? And that's– again, that's all in
544
00:33:38.630 --> 00:33:41.970
the book. You can see how we did it. So
545
00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:46.049
I think at this point in time– There is a
546
00:33:46.089 --> 00:33:49.490
certain amount of clarity. People may not be willing to
547
00:33:49.569 --> 00:33:53.829
accept it or not, but there is clarity in the data. Now,
548
00:33:54.049 --> 00:33:58.339
as you mentioned before, that's 30 years. That's not 80 years.
549
00:33:58.619 --> 00:34:03.579
It's not 100 years. Things could change. We don't know
550
00:34:03.619 --> 00:34:08.280
if their time span of operations is the same as ours.
551
00:34:10.139 --> 00:34:12.099
Another thing we did in the book, though, is we
552
00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:16.260
did assess what you would think of as their operational cadence.
553
00:34:17.019 --> 00:34:20.880
As Ian says in the article mentioned, their presence. What
554
00:34:20.980 --> 00:34:24.800
is actually their presence? Can we deduce any of that
555
00:34:24.860 --> 00:34:31.190
from their activity? Has that changed over time? Because that
556
00:34:31.210 --> 00:34:33.369
would be a big factor. If we see their presence
557
00:34:33.469 --> 00:34:37.380
increasing over time, You know, that could be a concern.
558
00:34:37.739 --> 00:34:40.559
Could be an indicator of something else to come afterwards.
559
00:34:40.579 --> 00:34:43.599
Because as you said, operational cadence, and that would be
560
00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:45.599
the pace at which, look, if all of a sudden
561
00:34:45.619 --> 00:34:48.530
we saw intense UFO activity all over the.
562
00:34:48.489 --> 00:34:53.889
Planet, you know, somebody might get alarmed. Maybe.
563
00:34:54.170 --> 00:34:57.550
Because if it just really stepped up, you know, so
564
00:34:57.829 --> 00:34:59.010
entirely significant.
565
00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:00.139
You know, everywhere.
566
00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:03.269
that might be an indicator of something that might be
567
00:35:03.329 --> 00:35:06.110
coming globally, right? I mean, this would be the way
568
00:35:06.150 --> 00:35:09.369
to look at it. What has been the consistency that
569
00:35:09.909 --> 00:35:11.789
you've been able to note and you talk about in
570
00:35:11.809 --> 00:35:14.050
the book as far as, I mean, is there a
571
00:35:14.070 --> 00:35:18.900
certain time periods where we have a greater presence that's notable?
572
00:35:19.260 --> 00:35:23.639
And is there a significance that you could attribute to
573
00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:27.780
that regarding like the greater activity during certain time periods?
574
00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:33.340
Yeah. There are certain– what are generally referred to as waves. Right.
575
00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:37.099
Or if you want to call them surges of activity,
576
00:35:37.099 --> 00:35:40.090
1952 stood out as a surge in continent-wide activity. 1957, 1958,
577
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:47.030
another type of surge in activity, mid-' 60s, mid-' 70s. They usually–
578
00:35:57.550 --> 00:36:01.130
Come in like a two- to three-year period, you know,
579
00:36:01.150 --> 00:36:05.269
there's not exactly a bell curve, but something like a
580
00:36:05.469 --> 00:36:10.480
very sharp bell curve. So there are periods of time.
581
00:36:11.159 --> 00:36:13.119
Can you connect them to anything?
582
00:36:13.139 --> 00:36:13.960
Yeah.
583
00:36:15.869 --> 00:36:21.110
That's going a little far. In 1952, what you can
584
00:36:21.170 --> 00:36:25.559
say is they had made themselves highly visible over something
585
00:36:25.639 --> 00:36:31.360
like five years and received no response. So in 1952,
586
00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:34.489
they actually start showing up all up and down the
587
00:36:34.630 --> 00:36:39.010
East Coast, over all the major metropolitan areas, and finally
588
00:36:39.110 --> 00:36:45.969
repeatedly over Washington, D.C., Now, it's totally ethnocentric, but another
589
00:36:45.989 --> 00:36:48.230
interpretation would be what else do we have to do
590
00:36:48.269 --> 00:36:49.730
to show you people that we're here?
591
00:36:50.010 --> 00:36:51.760
Well, see, there's the problem, right?
592
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:58.400
This failure to extrapolate an agenda means that we're still
593
00:36:58.900 --> 00:37:01.769
stabbing in the dark at this because we have no
594
00:37:01.849 --> 00:37:03.710
idea if this is some agenda.
595
00:37:03.349 --> 00:37:05.530
That has absolutely nothing to do with our behavior.
596
00:37:06.300 --> 00:37:09.480
That could have something to do with an entirely different
597
00:37:10.050 --> 00:37:15.349
circumstance where those particular years were just important because.
598
00:37:16.690 --> 00:37:19.090
It could be, you know, the position of the sun,
599
00:37:19.190 --> 00:37:22.489
as far as we know, you know, is he right?
600
00:37:22.650 --> 00:37:24.789
I mean, or maybe it was just the availability of
601
00:37:24.869 --> 00:37:27.639
scouts to send. Yeah, I think.
602
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:30.260
The problem with that line of thought is that's actually
603
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:34.599
disabled a lot of analysis. OK, because that that really
604
00:37:34.659 --> 00:37:37.099
puts it in the context of we even if we
605
00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:42.909
acknowledge that they're intelligent, you know, It would be anthropomorphic
606
00:37:43.380 --> 00:37:46.199
to impose the way we think, the way we act,
607
00:37:46.260 --> 00:37:49.639
our standards on them. So we shouldn't even deal with it.
608
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:53.360
There's no way we can know what their agenda would be.
609
00:37:54.619 --> 00:37:57.090
We kind of turn it around in a different way
610
00:37:57.110 --> 00:38:00.690
in the book and say we can understand that. But
611
00:38:01.409 --> 00:38:04.929
the agenda that's important to us, quite frankly, is an
612
00:38:04.989 --> 00:38:10.219
agenda that would apply to us. Right. We can look
613
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:13.610
at it in our own terms. If it was us
614
00:38:14.250 --> 00:38:17.550
and we saw this, what would it suggest? So I
615
00:38:17.969 --> 00:38:23.429
guess what we're saying is totally understand the position that, oh,
616
00:38:23.469 --> 00:38:26.739
you can't understand anything because you just don't know. Well,
617
00:38:26.760 --> 00:38:27.989
we just think that's fruitless.
618
00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:34.039
Oh, are you still there?
619
00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:35.659
I'm still here.
620
00:38:35.820 --> 00:38:36.940
Okay, sorry. All of a.
621
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:37.980
Sudden the sound dropped.
622
00:38:38.260 --> 00:38:38.960
Sorry, sorry.
623
00:38:38.980 --> 00:38:42.739
That's the way we went. The scenarios that we laid
624
00:38:42.900 --> 00:38:51.650
out are general enough so we don't think that they're anthropomorphic, okay? Survey, contact,
625
00:38:54.170 --> 00:39:02.750
implementation– exploitation, interference, these are all intelligent-level things that any
626
00:39:02.809 --> 00:39:06.650
species could be doing. So we think the scenarios really
627
00:39:06.710 --> 00:39:10.190
are general enough so that you can make some usual conclusions.
628
00:39:10.650 --> 00:39:12.730
When you move to that next step, which is where
629
00:39:12.769 --> 00:39:17.690
you did, it's sort of admittedly saying, why did things
630
00:39:17.949 --> 00:39:21.860
surge in 1957 when we launched the first satellite? Is
631
00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:25.519
that because we launched the satellite? Certainly could be. We
632
00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:29.179
can't know that. That's that's a tougher call did they
633
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:37.260
did they surge in the uh late 60s because they
634
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:41.170
changed they added this behavioral study component to what they
635
00:39:41.210 --> 00:39:46.800
were doing Maybe. So it does– there's a scale. We're
636
00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:52.300
pretty comfortable with our scenario analysis. We're less comfortable with
637
00:39:53.059 --> 00:39:56.360
being able to explain why 1952, why 1957, why 1975.
638
00:39:56.360 --> 00:39:58.170
In 1974-75, could I tell you that they're interested in
639
00:39:58.210 --> 00:40:09.199
revisiting all of the ICBM bases? Yes. Because that's the
640
00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:12.900
year when we moved to Minuteman III and put multiple
641
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:17.239
reentry warheads on them and exponentially increased our ability for
642
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:20.719
atomic warfighting? I could say that. That may be true.
643
00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:25.889
But I have less confidence in saying that as I
644
00:40:25.929 --> 00:40:27.809
do in the scenario analysis.
645
00:40:27.869 --> 00:40:29.829
In a very general way, you could say just because
646
00:40:29.869 --> 00:40:32.050
you have correlation doesn't mean you have causation.
647
00:40:33.389 --> 00:40:38.030
Right, yes. Okay. No, fair enough. Or an agenda. Yeah, no. Right.
648
00:40:38.210 --> 00:40:41.510
But I can say, one thing we can say, I think,
649
00:40:41.570 --> 00:40:43.969
from the pattern study, going back to the pattern study is,
650
00:40:44.969 --> 00:40:48.210
if we're specifically talking just about the areas of interest
651
00:40:48.250 --> 00:40:53.630
in atomic weaponry, we can actually track that interest by saying,
652
00:40:54.250 --> 00:40:58.710
when we put the bombs on SAC bombers, they were
653
00:40:58.730 --> 00:40:59.550
at the bomber bases.
654
00:40:59.570 --> 00:40:59.710
Right.
655
00:41:00.610 --> 00:41:05.119
When we deployed our first Atlas ICBMs, they were at
656
00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:06.519
the Atlas sites.
657
00:41:06.539 --> 00:41:07.420
Okay.
658
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:10.219
When we moved to Titans, they moved to Titans.
659
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:10.760
Okay.
660
00:41:10.820 --> 00:41:14.909
And they didn't. The activity at the bomber bases and
661
00:41:14.949 --> 00:41:19.210
the Atlas bases went away. When we moved to Minuteman,
662
00:41:19.909 --> 00:41:22.510
the activity at the other base, it's just like, yeah,
663
00:41:22.530 --> 00:41:26.199
there certainly is a pattern of them following the most
664
00:41:26.380 --> 00:41:31.760
advanced and most capable of delivery system for atomic weapons right.
665
00:41:33.929 --> 00:41:37.010
Uh okay well yeah no i get it okay so
666
00:41:37.050 --> 00:41:39.130
what we have is when every time we stepped up
667
00:41:39.190 --> 00:41:42.340
we have a a recurring pattern where interest rises up
668
00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:46.099
so that's clearly something where you could correlate it and
669
00:41:46.820 --> 00:41:47.780
view it as.
670
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:50.750
At least part of the cause if not the whole Right.
671
00:41:50.889 --> 00:41:52.289
I mean, analytically.
672
00:41:52.570 --> 00:41:52.710
Yeah.
673
00:41:52.769 --> 00:41:52.889
OK.
674
00:41:53.110 --> 00:41:54.289
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
675
00:41:54.309 --> 00:41:56.449
That's why I'm walking through with you, because I'm trying
676
00:41:56.469 --> 00:41:58.349
to you know, I'm trying to reckon with this. And
677
00:41:58.369 --> 00:41:59.869
this is this is different for me.
678
00:41:59.989 --> 00:42:02.190
It's yeah, it's a 500 page book.
679
00:42:02.289 --> 00:42:03.630
It's pretty. Right.
680
00:42:03.690 --> 00:42:03.909
Right.
681
00:42:03.949 --> 00:42:05.769
I mean, look, I'm not asking you to explain the
682
00:42:05.789 --> 00:42:08.190
whole thing, but I think these are a few key areas.
683
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:09.860
So tell me something.
684
00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:13.199
What else is is, you know, unique in this book
685
00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:16.360
that you could mention here without giving it all away, obviously?
686
00:42:16.380 --> 00:42:17.159
Yeah.
687
00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:20.780
You know, that you guys go into, because the group
688
00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:24.750
of you is very interesting, first of all, and so far,
689
00:42:24.809 --> 00:42:28.409
I mean, the work is unique. So what else is
690
00:42:28.510 --> 00:42:30.909
unique in this book that maybe people have never heard
691
00:42:31.010 --> 00:42:31.889
of or seen before?
692
00:42:32.989 --> 00:42:35.699
I think another area that's unique in the book, so
693
00:42:35.980 --> 00:42:39.119
the first part of the book, we talk about patterns,
694
00:42:39.179 --> 00:42:43.809
we talk about scenarios, but Then we go on to
695
00:42:43.849 --> 00:42:48.230
make some of our own observations. Why is this institutional
696
00:42:48.289 --> 00:42:54.579
denial there? Why is it that we can't recognize? In 1947,
697
00:42:54.579 --> 00:43:00.059
the Air Force Intelligence Command issued a formal finding that
698
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:04.349
they're real objects. They're not only real objects. They display
699
00:43:04.409 --> 00:43:09.949
certain flight characteristics. Here is a profile, and they circulated
700
00:43:09.989 --> 00:43:13.809
that among the commands and said, okay, begin collecting data
701
00:43:13.869 --> 00:43:19.000
on this. So in 1947, they're real objects. In 2026,
702
00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:26.980
they're anomalous phenomena. We're actually losing ground in engaging with them.
703
00:43:27.889 --> 00:43:31.050
So we write a lot in the book. We trace
704
00:43:31.130 --> 00:43:32.789
that process.
705
00:43:32.130 --> 00:43:35.349
In terms of our— You do explain how that happened, right?
706
00:43:35.510 --> 00:43:38.150
I mean— Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead.
707
00:43:38.710 --> 00:43:38.849
Yeah.
708
00:43:39.170 --> 00:43:42.030
So we try to address that in the book, explain
709
00:43:42.230 --> 00:43:48.489
why that's happened, go over the elements that essentially— Explain
710
00:43:48.570 --> 00:43:51.170
why we don't seem to be able to recognize them
711
00:43:51.230 --> 00:43:54.750
as intelligent. You know, what's holding us back? What is
712
00:43:54.809 --> 00:43:58.550
the problem? Why are we in denial? And we give
713
00:43:58.590 --> 00:44:02.010
a lot of detailed case studies of those going through
714
00:44:02.030 --> 00:44:05.469
that whole process. So that's something quite different in the book.
715
00:44:06.449 --> 00:44:10.179
We even go into the book of, you know, why
716
00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:12.159
is what we're doing now in 2024, 25, 26 with
717
00:44:12.179 --> 00:44:20.630
congressional mandates in place? to restudy this, why are we
718
00:44:20.670 --> 00:44:23.289
making no progress? What would we need to do?
719
00:44:23.469 --> 00:44:26.739
Yeah, now that was my next question. Is it only
720
00:44:26.780 --> 00:44:28.889
in recent years I have to sit here and think
721
00:44:28.929 --> 00:44:30.219
to myself, you know.
722
00:44:30.280 --> 00:44:33.440
What's the opposite of progress? It would be Congress.
723
00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:36.780
You know, am I supposed to be thinking of this
724
00:44:36.820 --> 00:44:41.480
at this point up until only recently? Because to my memory,
725
00:44:42.199 --> 00:44:45.679
only in the past, you know, few years, Have there
726
00:44:45.699 --> 00:44:48.360
been real hearings on this or have there been anybody,
727
00:44:48.380 --> 00:44:53.579
you know, publicly being shown to even discuss this? Despite
728
00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:55.250
the fact that, you know, there were the headlines made
729
00:44:55.269 --> 00:44:57.250
by the guy who said we had the reverse engineered,
730
00:44:57.269 --> 00:45:00.690
you know, all that. OK, but during this and the
731
00:45:00.750 --> 00:45:04.030
Luna thing, right, the Luna committee also, you know, having
732
00:45:04.050 --> 00:45:07.199
to deal with this, not only all the assassinations, you know,
733
00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:07.909
and everything else.
734
00:45:08.030 --> 00:45:10.760
But how about 9-11 and the aliens? Sure. Give it
735
00:45:10.780 --> 00:45:15.420
all to them for oversight. You know, what about that?
736
00:45:15.739 --> 00:45:20.739
Are we seeing a better chance for these things to change?
737
00:45:20.780 --> 00:45:23.360
I mean, I know there's the new reporting system, but
738
00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:26.639
that reporting system seems to be flawed in that there's
739
00:45:26.699 --> 00:45:31.210
nowhere for it to go afterwards. You know, are we
740
00:45:31.429 --> 00:45:35.269
actually making progress or not? Because like you said, at
741
00:45:35.369 --> 00:45:38.960
one point there was more analysis happening. There was more
742
00:45:38.980 --> 00:45:41.460
of an understanding of this. And now we've gone from, well,
743
00:45:41.559 --> 00:45:44.659
clearly we have something unidentified, you know, that is a
744
00:45:44.699 --> 00:45:46.409
thing to, well, it's just a phenomenon.
745
00:45:46.429 --> 00:45:46.800
Who knows?
746
00:45:46.820 --> 00:45:51.730
Yeah, we've actually taken a step backwards.
747
00:45:51.750 --> 00:45:53.730
A little bipolar, you know.
748
00:45:54.690 --> 00:46:00.550
And from 1950 through 19, up to 1970, the Air
749
00:46:00.610 --> 00:46:02.469
Force was a central collection point.
750
00:46:02.730 --> 00:46:02.929
Right.
751
00:46:03.050 --> 00:46:08.809
They would take reports from anybody. Right. everybody, anywhere, and
752
00:46:08.889 --> 00:46:12.309
they would investigate them all. Now, you can question their–
753
00:46:12.530 --> 00:46:16.469
but at least they would gather certain data and they
754
00:46:16.510 --> 00:46:18.760
would put it on an index card file and it
755
00:46:18.780 --> 00:46:21.889
ended up– we have it. And so you can know
756
00:46:21.949 --> 00:46:25.800
that something has been reported, something has been described, was
757
00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:30.500
it investigated. You have that data. Now, for example, as
758
00:46:30.539 --> 00:46:34.980
far as we can tell– AARO, which is the resolutions
759
00:46:35.099 --> 00:46:37.840
office that ended up being set up by the Pentagon
760
00:46:38.340 --> 00:46:42.780
after the congressional hearings, only takes reports from military or
761
00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:47.039
federal government employees or the FAA. I mean, it's essentially
762
00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:48.500
a federal reporting system.
763
00:46:48.559 --> 00:46:51.360
So we no longer have the FBI being dispatched to
764
00:46:51.429 --> 00:46:55.869
civilian incidents and things like this, like we had in
765
00:46:55.889 --> 00:46:57.070
the 50s and 60s, right?
766
00:46:59.269 --> 00:47:01.190
We don't even know that they're part of the process.
767
00:47:01.230 --> 00:47:05.050
The process is not transparent at all, regardless of what
768
00:47:05.090 --> 00:47:09.480
you might see on the websites. The best we know,
769
00:47:09.539 --> 00:47:14.159
the best we can tell is AARO will take reports
770
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:20.650
from military– the FBI certainly can generate a report to them.
771
00:47:22.300 --> 00:47:24.820
And in some of the more recent reports that we've seen,
772
00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:28.659
it is from people that the FBI interviewed. So no,
773
00:47:28.860 --> 00:47:31.590
I wouldn't say that the FBI– it is a federal
774
00:47:31.670 --> 00:47:35.010
reporting process. A lot of it these days– appears to
775
00:47:35.050 --> 00:47:42.329
be coming from security personnel at federal reservations, federal test sites,
776
00:47:43.630 --> 00:47:47.409
because nothing appears to be coming in the U.S. from
777
00:47:47.469 --> 00:47:51.800
the military. Overseas, yeah, but not in the U.S. These
778
00:47:51.860 --> 00:47:53.780
are the sorts of things that we point out in
779
00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:57.900
the book. What's missing? What are we not getting? And
780
00:47:59.380 --> 00:48:03.380
Based on inquiries we've made ourselves, the military is interested,
781
00:48:03.400 --> 00:48:09.000
or AARO is interested in military reports from military bases.
782
00:48:09.780 --> 00:48:14.579
So if a military person sees a UFO over an
783
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:17.880
Air Force base and reports it, it gets into the system.
784
00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:22.460
If they're five miles outside the Air Force base, it doesn't.
785
00:48:22.989 --> 00:48:28.300
You know, civilians, there's no civilian reporting mechanism. Pilar reports,
786
00:48:28.500 --> 00:48:35.039
yes and no. It's very, it's happening, but assessing the
787
00:48:35.099 --> 00:48:39.760
degree of which it's happening, assessing the coverage is hard.
788
00:48:39.980 --> 00:48:42.940
And there's no sign that they have done any historical work.
789
00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:46.119
There's no sign that they've scooped up all the Blue
790
00:48:46.159 --> 00:48:46.760
Book stuff.
791
00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:47.239
Yeah.
792
00:48:47.510 --> 00:48:47.760
Right.
793
00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:50.309
But there's no sign that they've gone back to the
794
00:48:50.789 --> 00:48:55.900
80s and the 90s. And they've looked at situation reports,
795
00:48:56.440 --> 00:49:01.760
spot reports, threat reports, and pulled those forward and done
796
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:04.260
any study of them. And, again, this is an area
797
00:49:04.280 --> 00:49:06.849
that we deal with, you ask. We deal with quite–
798
00:49:07.250 --> 00:49:09.630
there are two or three chapters in the book that
799
00:49:09.730 --> 00:49:14.070
cover what's not being done. But to go on with
800
00:49:14.110 --> 00:49:17.050
your question, another thing that we do in the book
801
00:49:17.269 --> 00:49:22.039
that really has not been done, it's not that it's
802
00:49:22.099 --> 00:49:24.420
not been done in different places, but it's not been
803
00:49:24.460 --> 00:49:28.559
done and pulled together, is we examine the contact and
804
00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:37.010
communications issues. What does contact or communications look like with
805
00:49:37.739 --> 00:49:42.980
a non-human intelligence in our own biome on Earth? What's
806
00:49:43.019 --> 00:49:47.489
that look like? How can you characterize it? The SETI
807
00:49:47.530 --> 00:49:52.989
people have done a lot of work on characterizing communications
808
00:49:53.110 --> 00:49:58.619
with non-human intelligence at interstellar distances. They can't seem to
809
00:49:58.699 --> 00:50:02.139
quite deal with the fact that maybe they should bring
810
00:50:02.179 --> 00:50:06.019
it in a little bit closer. Okay, what about over
811
00:50:06.099 --> 00:50:09.739
White Sands in New Mexico? Now, if it's 30 light
812
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:11.739
years away, we'll deal with it. But they've done a
813
00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:14.460
lot of great work, and we've pulled that all together
814
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:19.030
in some chapters on contact and communications. What would a
815
00:50:19.050 --> 00:50:22.610
contact protocol look like? Do we see any evidence of it?
816
00:50:23.269 --> 00:50:26.269
Are they doing it? Are we doing it? Are we
817
00:50:26.289 --> 00:50:30.269
screwing it up? And then the communications issue, because a
818
00:50:30.309 --> 00:50:33.110
lot of people go, well, surely they could use AI
819
00:50:33.150 --> 00:50:37.730
and talk to us. No, there are lots of communications
820
00:50:37.829 --> 00:50:40.909
is a lot harder than people really think that it is.
821
00:50:40.929 --> 00:50:43.750
You know, you pick up a science fiction book and
822
00:50:44.170 --> 00:50:47.590
suddenly you have these interstellar travelers talking to each other
823
00:50:47.690 --> 00:50:51.469
after about five minutes. No, there are languages that we
824
00:50:51.530 --> 00:50:54.760
still can't understand on Earth. You know, historically.
825
00:50:54.989 --> 00:50:55.250
True.
826
00:50:55.769 --> 00:50:59.070
And that that is a problem here, because, again, I mean,
827
00:50:59.110 --> 00:51:01.389
if you go back to what is famously called the
828
00:51:01.429 --> 00:51:02.090
wow sound.
829
00:51:02.150 --> 00:51:02.389
Right.
830
00:51:03.690 --> 00:51:06.989
There's still arguments about that, where this sound came from
831
00:51:07.150 --> 00:51:08.150
a distant star.
832
00:51:08.269 --> 00:51:08.510
Right.
833
00:51:09.909 --> 00:51:12.949
And and was received and appears to have, you know,
834
00:51:13.530 --> 00:51:17.360
an organization to it, the sound. But as far as
835
00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:18.699
I know, it only appeared once.
836
00:51:18.760 --> 00:51:20.320
Did you guys cover that in this book?
837
00:51:21.699 --> 00:51:24.480
We do mention that, but we also mention the fact
838
00:51:24.519 --> 00:51:30.329
that if you think about it, we have had electromagnetic communication.
839
00:51:30.369 --> 00:51:34.929
We've had radio for pushing it 200 years now, right?
840
00:51:35.230 --> 00:51:35.730
Yeah. Okay.
841
00:51:36.469 --> 00:51:40.710
Now, let's look at an interstellar civilization out there 20
842
00:51:40.710 --> 00:51:44.789
or 30 light years away or whatever that might be 1,000
843
00:51:44.789 --> 00:51:47.829
years older than us. Do we really think that they're
844
00:51:47.849 --> 00:51:50.639
still using radio to communicate?
845
00:51:50.719 --> 00:51:52.940
Well, but then again, we were also dumb enough to
846
00:51:52.980 --> 00:51:57.340
send a literal LP-style record in a spaceship at one
847
00:51:57.360 --> 00:51:58.639
point out into the universe.
848
00:51:58.699 --> 00:52:02.360
So, you know— I guess what I'm pointing at is
849
00:52:02.420 --> 00:52:05.159
we may not be listening with the right tools. This
850
00:52:05.179 --> 00:52:08.340
whole idea of— We're not hearing them. It's sort of like,
851
00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:11.480
you know, I'm sorry, I still have my A-track running,
852
00:52:11.619 --> 00:52:16.679
and you're doing a CD. Okay. Or you're streaming video.
853
00:52:17.860 --> 00:52:21.059
We really go into those issues pointing out the fact
854
00:52:21.079 --> 00:52:25.659
that we shouldn't use our experience defining whether anybody's out
855
00:52:25.719 --> 00:52:27.329
there and trying to communicate with.
856
00:52:27.260 --> 00:52:27.909
Us or not.
857
00:52:27.989 --> 00:52:28.320
Right.
858
00:52:28.530 --> 00:52:31.690
For another, for instance, look, there's radio sounds all around you,
859
00:52:31.710 --> 00:52:33.789
but if you don't have a receiver set up, guess what?
860
00:52:33.849 --> 00:52:34.389
You don't know it.
861
00:52:35.619 --> 00:52:37.500
You know, and you got to know how to receive
862
00:52:37.539 --> 00:52:40.920
those signals, don't you? There is an organizational principle to
863
00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:43.510
receiving a radio signal. I'm just talking about common radio
864
00:52:43.570 --> 00:52:44.159
signals now.
865
00:52:44.260 --> 00:52:46.050
You know, everywhere you go, they're everywhere.
866
00:52:46.510 --> 00:52:49.849
But you can't get them unless you have a radio, duh. So,
867
00:52:50.030 --> 00:52:52.369
you know, maybe we don't have the right radio and
868
00:52:52.389 --> 00:52:55.829
they're already sending a thousand signals. This is a possibility
869
00:52:55.889 --> 00:52:57.989
because it's just on a level that we have no
870
00:52:58.050 --> 00:53:02.170
understanding of. Because radio is a fairly new phenomenon to us.
871
00:53:02.829 --> 00:53:05.349
You know, I mean, 100 years ago, that was weird
872
00:53:05.409 --> 00:53:06.789
and rare, right?
873
00:53:06.969 --> 00:53:07.530
Wireless.
874
00:53:07.550 --> 00:53:11.940
But it's interesting because all of this has been encapsulated
875
00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:16.760
in something called the Fermi paradox. And basically, the paradox
876
00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:21.949
is if intelligence... is widely spread in the universe, you know,
877
00:53:22.090 --> 00:53:24.909
why aren't we hearing from them? And this is used
878
00:53:24.969 --> 00:53:27.530
in a lot of scientific circles to argue for the
879
00:53:27.570 --> 00:53:29.789
fact that there is nobody out there.
880
00:53:31.090 --> 00:53:33.340
Well, either there is nobody out there or they're so
881
00:53:33.409 --> 00:53:36.880
far away that it's irrelevant is the other part of it, right?
882
00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:40.780
And so I guess that would be my counter. You
883
00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:44.000
can't argue that there's nobody out there just because the
884
00:53:44.039 --> 00:53:47.739
device that you're listening with might not be a match
885
00:53:47.780 --> 00:53:49.500
for how they're communicating.
886
00:53:50.099 --> 00:53:52.239
Well, you can't be angry that you're not receiving the
887
00:53:52.300 --> 00:53:54.510
internet when you turn on your radio. I mean, it's
888
00:53:54.530 --> 00:53:55.769
just that simple, right?
889
00:53:56.750 --> 00:53:59.010
I guess you could be, but you shouldn't be.
890
00:53:59.050 --> 00:54:01.690
You shouldn't be because you're not using the right tool.
891
00:54:01.829 --> 00:54:04.590
And for all we know, there is some rock that
892
00:54:04.630 --> 00:54:08.489
we should hook to an electrical cable that'll enable us
893
00:54:08.550 --> 00:54:12.139
to see pictures. I mean- Or, you know, water can
894
00:54:12.179 --> 00:54:15.570
be an information storage device. Who knows if water.
895
00:54:15.309 --> 00:54:18.789
Has already been imprinted with the information? You know what
896
00:54:18.809 --> 00:54:19.190
I'm saying?
897
00:54:19.590 --> 00:54:24.230
Look, there's all kinds of possibilities here that, again, until
898
00:54:24.269 --> 00:54:27.590
they're imagined, seem mystical. Like I said, I mean, think
899
00:54:27.610 --> 00:54:30.219
about the existence of radio in and of itself, right?
900
00:54:30.980 --> 00:54:34.579
Hasn't been around that long in the course of human history,
901
00:54:34.659 --> 00:54:35.260
let's just say.
902
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:36.280
Yeah.
903
00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:39.750
So that is, you'd ask, what else is in the book?
904
00:54:39.789 --> 00:54:42.349
And that is one area that we spend, I think,
905
00:54:42.389 --> 00:54:47.889
two or three chapters on really to explore the issues.
906
00:54:48.070 --> 00:54:52.210
Because the question always arises, if you're challenging the reality
907
00:54:52.329 --> 00:54:56.960
of or the intelligence of UFOs, why aren't they landing
908
00:54:57.019 --> 00:54:59.920
on the White House lawn and talking to us in English?
909
00:54:59.940 --> 00:55:00.280
Right.
910
00:55:00.909 --> 00:55:03.269
There are a lot of reasons why that's just silliness
911
00:55:04.289 --> 00:55:07.429
and that that wouldn't be the expectation. And just what
912
00:55:07.449 --> 00:55:11.320
we're seeing aligns with something very different doesn't mean that
913
00:55:11.340 --> 00:55:13.119
they're not there and they're not intelligent.
914
00:55:13.420 --> 00:55:13.780
Well, right.
915
00:55:13.840 --> 00:55:19.039
I mean, intelligence can be communicated without the benefit of sound. So,
916
00:55:19.539 --> 00:55:21.949
you know, the fact that we're listening for something doesn't
917
00:55:21.989 --> 00:55:24.469
mean a damn thing if they're not communicating with sound.
918
00:55:26.130 --> 00:55:29.050
I mean, it's just, again, you have to open your
919
00:55:29.090 --> 00:55:31.349
mind to certain possibilities. I mean, look, there are certain
920
00:55:31.389 --> 00:55:33.429
things you gotta, you gotta limit it.
921
00:55:33.690 --> 00:55:33.909
Right.
922
00:55:33.989 --> 00:55:35.690
And you gotta be reasonable.
923
00:55:35.730 --> 00:55:38.480
Like we were talking about before the way to examine
924
00:55:38.519 --> 00:55:40.940
this or to analyze it or to make a supposition
925
00:55:41.519 --> 00:55:43.500
would be to say, you know, okay, let's relate it
926
00:55:43.539 --> 00:55:46.599
to our way of interacting with a species that has
927
00:55:46.659 --> 00:55:49.360
a different linguistic setup than we do.
928
00:55:49.579 --> 00:55:49.840
Right.
929
00:55:50.219 --> 00:55:52.480
Has a different social order, has a different form of
930
00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:53.739
communication in general.
931
00:55:54.599 --> 00:55:57.300
Um, And, you know, you have to go at it
932
00:55:57.340 --> 00:55:58.940
that way. But at the same time, you got to
933
00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:01.050
open your mind to possibilities here that there are things
934
00:56:01.070 --> 00:56:04.309
that we're simply not hearing. Like I said, you got radio.
935
00:56:04.030 --> 00:56:06.469
Signals all around you almost anywhere you're sitting. If you're
936
00:56:06.489 --> 00:56:09.710
listening to me right now, guaranteed you got radio signals
937
00:56:09.769 --> 00:56:12.489
around you, but you don't know about them unless you
938
00:56:12.530 --> 00:56:16.510
have a radio. And again, it's only like 100 years
939
00:56:16.570 --> 00:56:19.860
or so that that was even commonplace. So, you know,
940
00:56:21.139 --> 00:56:24.099
radio signals sent to this planet in the 1700s would
941
00:56:24.139 --> 00:56:25.280
not have been heard, right?
942
00:56:26.349 --> 00:56:26.929
Just saying.
943
00:56:28.210 --> 00:56:31.440
OK, so, Larry, I want to tie a bow on this.
944
00:56:31.699 --> 00:56:35.460
And I find this conversation really interesting. And again, if
945
00:56:35.500 --> 00:56:37.079
you could give us the title of the book, that'll
946
00:56:37.099 --> 00:56:39.059
be out in what, six days from the time we're
947
00:56:39.079 --> 00:56:39.699
recording here.
948
00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:40.570
Right?
949
00:56:41.019 --> 00:56:41.579
Right, yes.
950
00:56:42.099 --> 00:56:45.199
Pre-order now, and it should be shipping within six days, yes.
951
00:56:45.780 --> 00:56:49.840
The title of the book is UFO Intentions, Decoding the Patterns.
952
00:56:50.099 --> 00:56:52.460
Yes, UFO Intentions, Decoding the Patterns.
953
00:56:52.500 --> 00:56:53.280
Decoding the Patterns.
954
00:56:53.300 --> 00:56:55.210
Right, I didn't want to mess it up.
955
00:56:55.300 --> 00:56:58.050
What makes it different than anything that's gone before is
956
00:56:58.869 --> 00:57:02.780
basically everything that's been written up to now looks at
957
00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:07.780
UFO reports individually and looking for that, you know, what's
958
00:57:07.840 --> 00:57:12.139
the strongest case you've got for extraterrestrials, whatever. Our approach
959
00:57:12.179 --> 00:57:15.579
is different. We're not looking at the technology. We're not
960
00:57:15.639 --> 00:57:18.480
looking at it by report. We're looking at it from
961
00:57:18.539 --> 00:57:22.179
a behavioral science standpoint. And you can do a lot
962
00:57:22.219 --> 00:57:25.619
of stuff with behavioral science. And you do a lot
963
00:57:25.639 --> 00:57:30.269
of stuff, you know. There are many sciences that are
964
00:57:30.369 --> 00:57:35.699
well-versed in doing pattern studies, ranging from from archaeology to,
965
00:57:35.719 --> 00:57:40.679
you know, it's, but for some strange reason, nobody has
966
00:57:40.719 --> 00:57:43.780
yet applied it either in the, in any venue really
967
00:57:44.179 --> 00:57:48.659
to UFOs, UAPs, if you will. And that's, that's what we,
968
00:57:49.230 --> 00:57:51.349
we think makes the books different. It doesn't make the
969
00:57:51.630 --> 00:57:54.289
book the final solution at all, but what we're really
970
00:57:54.329 --> 00:57:56.889
trying to do is use it as an entree to
971
00:57:56.929 --> 00:58:00.969
get people to think, start thinking that, you know, behavioral
972
00:58:01.289 --> 00:58:06.760
behavioral signatures are just as important as technological signatures and
973
00:58:07.090 --> 00:58:11.199
maybe even more important since you know what they're doing
974
00:58:11.280 --> 00:58:15.019
is really more important than anything if they're not here
975
00:58:15.059 --> 00:58:17.360
at all then nothing is important but if they're real
976
00:58:17.420 --> 00:58:20.900
and if they're here what they're doing is the real question.
977
00:58:20.599 --> 00:58:25.340
Right what they're doing is absolutely the real question so Again,
978
00:58:25.360 --> 00:58:27.940
there you go. Larry, I want to thank you once
979
00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:31.340
again for joining us and appreciate it. And we did
980
00:58:31.380 --> 00:58:33.440
it on the Wednesday, which I'm really glad.
981
00:58:33.539 --> 00:58:35.650
And like I said, this will be a separated podcast
982
00:58:35.670 --> 00:58:38.710
from the earlier hour with Mike Swanson. But, you know,
983
00:58:38.750 --> 00:58:40.329
maybe at some point I'll actually bring the both of
984
00:58:40.369 --> 00:58:45.530
you on for a mutually a point of mutual interest.
985
00:58:45.710 --> 00:58:48.469
But today I was talking to him about finance and
986
00:58:48.489 --> 00:58:50.280
you about UAP. So I didn't know how to mix
987
00:58:50.420 --> 00:58:50.670
that one.
988
00:58:51.780 --> 00:58:52.719
But, yeah.
989
00:58:53.239 --> 00:58:54.719
But next time, you know, I mean, I know you
990
00:58:54.739 --> 00:58:56.619
wouldn't object to me and I'm with Mike and talking
991
00:58:56.699 --> 00:58:57.000
a bit.
992
00:58:57.239 --> 00:58:59.780
Oh, I'd love to talk with Mike again. I haven't
993
00:58:59.820 --> 00:59:01.449
talked to him for ages, it seems.
994
00:59:01.510 --> 00:59:01.829
Right.
995
00:59:01.909 --> 00:59:03.449
I mean, actually, it's been a couple of years since
996
00:59:03.489 --> 00:59:06.389
he'd been on the show here, it seems like. So,
997
00:59:06.530 --> 00:59:09.849
you know, anyway, he kind of explained that, why he withdrew.
998
00:59:09.989 --> 00:59:13.219
And we might talk politics next time I talk to you, Larry.
999
00:59:13.340 --> 00:59:13.760
I don't know.
1000
00:59:13.800 --> 00:59:14.340
It depends.
1001
00:59:14.800 --> 00:59:16.500
You know, Larry and I talk over the two week
1002
00:59:16.539 --> 00:59:19.559
period that we're not on recording and we come up
1003
00:59:19.599 --> 00:59:22.079
with something that makes sense for the time period. And
1004
00:59:23.869 --> 00:59:26.750
And sometimes it's the current event, and sometimes it's the
1005
00:59:26.769 --> 00:59:30.159
project Larry's working on. But it's always informative, and at
1006
00:59:30.219 --> 00:59:33.059
all times I recommend all of Larry's work. And the
1007
00:59:33.119 --> 00:59:38.119
upcoming book will be a collaboration, but equally as important,
1008
00:59:38.159 --> 00:59:41.789
and if Larry's working on it, you know it's good. Anyways,
1009
00:59:42.190 --> 00:59:44.329
so I can recommend it even before I read it,
1010
00:59:44.429 --> 00:59:47.070
and I do hope to read it, too. Also, I
1011
00:59:47.110 --> 00:59:52.199
would not, not at all dissuade you from Getting Unidentified,
1012
00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:56.380
which is a previous book on a similar topic, where
1013
00:59:56.539 --> 00:59:59.880
I think— is that where this started with you, is that book, Larry?
1014
01:00:00.300 --> 01:00:01.079
It did.
1015
01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:06.980
I just— I finished doing a couple of national intelligence books.
1016
01:00:07.059 --> 01:00:12.139
I did Surprise Attack. Right. And, you know, that really
1017
01:00:12.300 --> 01:00:15.429
got me into threat and warnings intelligence, and it just
1018
01:00:15.489 --> 01:00:20.030
dawned on me. It's like these techniques actually have worked
1019
01:00:20.050 --> 01:00:22.389
pretty well in the past when people have paid attention
1020
01:00:22.409 --> 01:00:26.340
to what the intelligence folks, you know. came up with
1021
01:00:26.380 --> 01:00:30.050
when they used them. And in the book Unidentified, I
1022
01:00:30.210 --> 01:00:34.389
basically wrote about UFOs and then devoted several chapters to
1023
01:00:34.869 --> 01:00:39.369
essentially applying the techniques strictly to one scenario, like were
1024
01:00:39.389 --> 01:00:44.719
the UFOs being reported Soviet? You know, just one scenario,
1025
01:00:44.780 --> 01:00:47.920
not a bunch, and use the techniques in that. And
1026
01:00:47.960 --> 01:00:51.710
then that raised the question of, well, Perhaps we could
1027
01:00:51.829 --> 01:00:55.309
use those techniques much more broadly. But yeah, unidentified was
1028
01:00:55.349 --> 01:00:59.059
kind of the starting point for how do you do
1029
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:03.760
intelligence analysis? How do you do strategic intelligence with UFOs?
1030
01:01:16.260 --> 01:01:18.440
Thank you.
1031
01:02:14.340 --> 01:03:05.940
Thank you. What you're taught to.
1032
01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:14.190
See Maybe you want your TV screen It's a rock
1033
01:03:14.349 --> 01:03:22.349
and a machine But it isn't what you want Cause
1034
01:03:22.630 --> 01:03:32.809
there's more than can take from you. If we are
1035
01:03:33.610 --> 01:03:41.699
not well, oh well, with a sense of what's to come.
1036
01:03:42.179 --> 01:04:01.519
This is who Ocelli.com In Denial, Secret Wars with Airstrikes
1037
01:04:01.639 --> 01:04:03.380
and Tanks by Larry Hancock.
1038
01:04:21.050 --> 01:04:24.630
Secret wars became a staple of u.s covert operations and
1039
01:04:24.650 --> 01:04:28.730
are still happening today larry hancock's book in denial rips
1040
01:04:28.909 --> 01:04:31.670
the cover off many of them using new files it
1041
01:04:31.730 --> 01:04:34.289
exposes things about the bay of pigs that no one
1042
01:04:34.329 --> 01:04:37.369
has ever written about before it shows why it really
1043
01:04:37.429 --> 01:04:40.260
failed and why the united states did not learn from
1044
01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:43.550
it It also shows why other countries today are doing
1045
01:04:43.650 --> 01:04:46.940
secret operations with more success. This is the book that
1046
01:04:46.980 --> 01:04:48.639
puts what some want.
1047
01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:50.280
To deny into the light.
1048
01:04:50.679 --> 01:04:54.340
In denial, secret wars with airstrikes and tanks.
1049
01:04:54.800 --> 01:05:00.960
Larry Hancock. For more information, go to Larry-Hancock.com. Pick up
1050
01:05:01.019 --> 01:05:05.130
your copy of In Denial at Amazon.com in digital or
1051
01:05:05.210 --> 01:05:05.730
physical form.
1052
01:05:05.750 --> 01:05:08.369
This is James Corbett of CorbettReport.com, and you're listening to
1053
01:05:08.389 --> 01:05:11.730
the Ocelli Effect at Ocelli.com. The War State by Michael
1054
01:05:11.750 --> 01:05:15.230
Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and
1055
01:05:15.269 --> 01:05:17.969
put the Kennedy presidency in the context of the times
1056
01:05:18.320 --> 01:05:22.980
and reveals never-before-published information about the Cuban Missile Crisis. President
1057
01:05:23.019 --> 01:05:25.460
Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had been
1058
01:05:25.500 --> 01:05:29.280
president 200 years ago. His assassination took place in the
1059
01:05:29.340 --> 01:05:31.699
context of the Cold War and the rise of the
1060
01:05:31.760 --> 01:05:35.219
national security state. Before World War II, the United States
1061
01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:38.250
was a continental republic. In the decade that followed, it
1062
01:05:38.289 --> 01:05:42.170
became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not
1063
01:05:42.309 --> 01:05:44.889
only wanted to invade Cuba, but knew that there were
1064
01:05:44.929 --> 01:05:48.289
short-range missiles on the island armed with nuclear warheads that
1065
01:05:48.329 --> 01:05:50.949
they could not destroy because they were on mobile launchers.
1066
01:05:51.170 --> 01:05:53.849
Their invasion could have led to a third world war,
1067
01:05:54.309 --> 01:05:57.219
and they wanted to go to war anyway. The War
1068
01:05:57.280 --> 01:06:00.579
State by Michael Swanson reveals why and will show you
1069
01:06:00.619 --> 01:06:05.239
what President Kennedy was up against. For more information, thewarstate.com.
1070
01:06:09.079 --> 01:06:12.260
The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national
1071
01:06:12.320 --> 01:06:15.329
transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in
1072
01:06:15.369 --> 01:06:18.750
the context of the times and reveals never before published
1073
01:06:18.789 --> 01:06:22.539
information about the Cuban Missile Crisis. President Kennedy would not
1074
01:06:22.579 --> 01:06:24.940
have been assassinated if he had been president 200 years ago.
1075
01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:29.019
His assassination took place in the context of the Cold
1076
01:06:29.059 --> 01:06:32.039
War and the rise of the national security state. Before
1077
01:06:32.119 --> 01:06:35.179
World War II, the United States was a continental republic.
1078
01:06:35.619 --> 01:06:38.590
In the decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower.
1079
01:06:38.909 --> 01:06:42.409
Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba,
1080
01:06:42.570 --> 01:06:45.150
but knew that there were short-range missiles on the island
1081
01:06:45.269 --> 01:06:48.329
armed with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because
1082
01:06:48.349 --> 01:06:51.130
they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have led
1083
01:06:51.170 --> 01:06:54.110
to a third world war, and they wanted to go
1084
01:06:54.150 --> 01:06:58.010
to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson reveals
1085
01:06:58.110 --> 01:07:00.889
why and will show you what President Kennedy was up against.
1086
01:07:01.150 --> 01:07:03.889
For more information, thewarstate.com.
1087
01:07:21.639 --> 01:07:47.289
Ocelli.com I want them to appreciate the incredible job we're doing.
1088
01:07:47.510 --> 01:07:49.289
We are doing a job the likes of which has
1089
01:07:49.369 --> 01:07:52.320
never been done before. You're going to have mental depression
1090
01:07:52.400 --> 01:07:55.559
for people. You're going to have large numbers of suicides.
1091
01:07:55.639 --> 01:07:56.820
Take a look at what happens.