Kip Fox: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Lutheran Worship Podcast presented by the Center for Worship Leadership at Concordia University Irvine. My name is Kip Fox. I'm one of your hosts, the director of the Songwriter Initiative, and I'm joined by my co-host, my partner, the boss man, the director of the Center for Worship Leadership, Mr. Steve Zank. Reverend Steve Zank. Sorry, Steve, how are you? I should have
Steve Zank: Man. I
Kip Fox: I I can't believe I didn't reverently revere you.
Steve Zank: Well I you know, rev it's not reverent. well I I am reverent actually. It's not the one who
Kip Fox: There's a
Steve Zank: to whom reverence is owed. we should
Kip Fox: I think that's from the Latin Rev R E V.
Steve Zank: That's revision, like revision A, revision B, revision C.
Kip Fox: okay.
Steve Zank: this is a great start. gotta I gotta say though, Kip, I have deactivated the phone lines. I w I went into the system. People have been calling if you've if if you've noticed this or not, we've been getting
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: calls in during our show. And it's been it's been actually kinda cool. I've really liked it.
Kip Fox: Well, it's been great, but I'm sure it's not great when you're just trying to get work done and you're getting calls.
Steve Zank: all the time. Yeah.
Kip Fox: Lot of call ins.
Steve Zank: well anyway, so Kim, it's just the two of us today, which I think is gonna be really fun.
Kip Fox: It is just the two of us. And that's not we're not joking. That's n there's no surprise here. You really did turn off the phone lines and the the video phone lines. Good.
Steve Zank: Yeah. Yeah. I did. No, I did. Because because today we are talking about another one of the songs from the album Always. And listener, You know, Kip and I talked a little bit about the idea of doing the album on this show. And we decided to to lean into it and share with you this record song by song. And so today we're going be talking about the title track always. But as we do, we're going to try to talk about it in a way that's not just a commercial for an album, but really getting to the themes present in the songs that we're sharing today in the song always. And also so you can get to know us better, our ministry better, we can share with you the process that we do with these kind of songs with TSI. So today we're getting into the song Always from the album Always title track.
Kip Fox: That's right. Actually, Steve, we have we have a two for one because we are also going to discuss the Always Prelude, which is if you have heard the album, if you haven't go look at Songwriter Initiative on any of your streaming platforms. but the album starts with what we call the Always Prelude. and so we'll talk about that and then it goes right into the song Always. And we'll get into how that happened. but you're getting a two for one here today. We're gonna knock knock them both out, okay?
Steve Zank: I love it. I love it.
Kip Fox: You know what, Steve, why don't we pause right here to play the song for everybody?
Steven Zank: Time has come for me to go to the farther But I would never leave you orphaned and alone So I am with you always, always I am for you always, always Through the fire, through the flood You were mine, you were loved I am with you always, always Turn your ears to hear the voice of the hurting Turn your eyes to see the hopeless and the poor I will send my Holy Spirit with you I am for you all I am with
Steve Zank: we and we do this thing where We have the prompt,
Kip Fox: the prompt, the process, the pros, and the practical application.
Steve Zank: Yeah, so the song Always, Kip, I know you were one of the writers on that song. So what was the prompt? How'd you get into the theme of Always?
Kip Fox: Well, this is a good question. Let me say also my two co writers first. So I wrote this with Nate Sabin, who's at Woodbury Lutheran in up there in Woodbury, Minnesota, the Twin Cities. And then Adam Lamb, who's at Christ Green Field in Gilbert, Arizona. And we wrote this tune in January. So the prompt for this. thanks for asking, Steve. I was approached in November by some folks leadership at Concordia University Irvine, where we live and breathe and host this podcast from. And they were looking forward and ahead to the 50th anniversary of Concordia University Irvine, based on the Great Commission, specifically Matthew twenty eight twenty, I believe, right? Is it yeah.
Steve Zank: And let's just say real briefly, because I think it's important for listeners to know that Christ College, which was the original name of the university here that's become Concordia University Irvine, was founded, I think, in in a large part, the theme of the university was the Great Commission. So we were the Great Commission University, kind of from the beginning, So the theme of Great of the Great Commission on the fiftieth
Kip Fox: Mm-hmm.
Steve Zank: is a not a new theme, but a return to one that we're very comfortable with here at the university.
Kip Fox: Yeah, and so they gave me some language around that and what what they were thinking as as they were looking ahead to this grand celebration and because it's pretty cool fifty years. I came to those guys in January. I had really just initially come up with the that first line of the chorus, I am with you always, with the way that it kind of goes, I'm with you always. And that was it, and I knew I liked that, and so I but I didn't want to mess with it anymore. So I came to those guys in our writing session, told them what this prompt was, what it was all about, what we were writing for, said, here's the one thing that I have that I think would be a great starting point. sang it for him and said, Okay, can you guys help me write this song? And and they did, and I knew they would. And so it's it was really fun the process. There's there's this kind of interesting pressure that happens to say, Hey, we're gonna write for this. Not just like, hey, we wanna write for this prompt, but like we are trying to write for this and we're not really gonna There's no expectation that we won't find a way to write this, you know? On most songs, it's like, okay, here's the prompt. Let's try to write a great song. Okay, that went really well or it didn't. That's fine. This was like, no, no, no. We're gonna write it and it's gotta be good. But that kind of pressure kind of gives a a fun energy to the right. And so we started through that process we were working on how this a verse was going and situation was going to lead into this chorus line that we had started with. And Nate really was toying around and he found he found the melody, he found the the vibe, the chord changes, and he found the lyrics. and we're gonna cross over a little bit into into prose here, but process and prose at the same time. But it was his idea, To start with Jesus saying, The time has come for me to go, which is a reference, that whole verse is a reference to John 14. specifically verses 26 and 28. Jesus has washed the disciples' feet. This is the whole Last Supper situation where Jesus is giving his disciples all sorts of sort of final words and and parting peace. And so it was really cool. that he sort of started with that because you sort of visualize Jesus at the Great Commission, sort of standing there with all sorts of folks around. but to tie that into this intimate moment with the disciples and tie those two things together was really cool, I thought. And the same thing with I will send my spirit. So the line in the in the verse is the time has come for me to go to the Father, but I would never leave you orphaned and alone. I will send my spirit so you know. And so there's kind of this summarization of that text in John, which I think is just a really neat thing that Nate did. And so we were kind of off and running fr from that point on.
Steve Zank: It's really cool. It it feels like you're starting in the middle of a a movie, like in the middle of a car chase. Like like the very first
Kip Fox: Yeah, yeah.
Steve Zank: scene is like, what's going on here? These cars are chasing
Kip Fox: Right.
Steve Zank: each other.
Kip Fox: it's it's tricky to have Jesus speaking in the first person in a in a song like this too, as well, right? And so it was just really beautiful how Nate did that somewhat effortlessly. And here I'm gonna before we get into more of the the lyrics of the song, we're gonna go backwards now with process to say that now that you brought that up in terms of where we started, after writing this the full always tune, we went through doctrinal view and the a suggestion was made that would there be any way to give a little bit more context to this, to to the the to who's speaking and The the authority to be speaking these words, right? Is there any way to kind of give a little bit more context to the story for folks that might be just hearing it for the first time? And so we went back and I I really appreciated that feedback and I went back to the writers and we were really trying to figure out how to do that with this song. And we had really decided that we really felt like we wrote a well crafted, tight knit s tightly knit song. And so again it was Nate who's who had this suggestion. Well, what if we wrote sort of an intro to the song or a piece of the song beforehand that isn't a part of the song but but goes into it? Which again, that seems simple in retrospect, but at the time it's like, man, that's great. Let's do that. And so we had latched on to the concept that maybe a way to present that authority would be to look into the I am statements of Jesus, right? Especially 'cause we have this I am with you always from the Great Commission. But what if we then took that I am as as sort of a turn of phrase using Jesus' own words and establishes authority by then saying in the prelude, we easily got into before before the days of Abraham, I am, I am, even before the world began, I am, I am. Touch the wound here in my side
Steve Zank: Touched the wound here on my side.
Kip Fox: and the scars on my hands, no time or place, I will not be. I am. So just that connection of these I am statements from Jesus to also the promise of the original song from the Great Commission and Matthew 28, 20, which is, I am with you always. So that's how we got the prelude.
Steve Zank: I love how that yeah. And I I love how that opens up the chorus for even more meaning. You know,
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: so sort of just the idea of like I'm with you always. You and you
Kip Fox: Right.
Steve Zank: might and you might catch on that without that prelude, the the connection with
Kip Fox: Mm-hmm.
Steve Zank: that with I am being the name of of God. but with the prelude it really draws out this connection. The great I am with you always. You know, it's really
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: a cool connection. And I I really liked actually the the cosmic scale. And the way I think you guys did it in the production side, the different kind of vocoder aesthetic you gave to that section really gives it an otherworldly feel and then really brings you into that that song in the close in the kind of closeness, which I think is really cool.
Kip Fox: Yeah, and that was really fun. I I've always been interested and loved certain songs that that use vocoder. and a lot of times in a talk that I give on on creativity, with Luther and his his theology of music, I use an example of a vocoder and so Adam knew that and so as we were writing that intro and we'd kind of finished up when we liked what it was. I think it was Adam who on the production side was said, Hey, you know what we could do? And and I and I said, No, we can't do that. They no way, right? Are you guys
Steve Zank: Nice.
Kip Fox: serious? Because it was too exciting of an idea. And again, that's
Steve Zank: Yeah.
Kip Fox: where I love again, as we sort of stand in this Lutheran d tradition of creative freedom. when it comes to proclaiming the gospel. It was really cool to have the support of those guys, of you, Steve, of everybody involved with sort of making the decisions on how we how we do things, to really have nothing but the green light for something like that. Super fun.
Steve Zank: And I th I think it's a way you can think of it like a choral interlude, like a choral prelude. In other words, it
Kip Fox: Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Zank: it has that same vibe where there's a section of the song that's sung by a choir and you listen to it and then you join in the first verse. And I think it also helps set the set the tone for the song that it's Jesus speaking. And he starts
Kip Fox: Mm.
Steve Zank: by speaking kind of over you, it through the choir or through the the small
Kip Fox: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Steve Zank: worship band that's singing it, and then you join in in his own voice. it's a really cool way to address this song of I'm with you always.
Kip Fox: Yeah, I remember talking about that a little bit. Okay, say we're gonna do this vocoder thing, but really what it is what it is is a is a choir, yeah. And so you could certainly translate that and have have a really cool piece for your congregation or whatever. So yeah, man, I appreciate you pointing that out.
Steve Zank: I was thinking about this just re recently, the idea of speaking for Jesus, you know, I am with you. Obviously
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: the I is not us, it's it's ge it's God, it's in Jesus Christ. And there are examples of this in the hymns In LSB, for example, there are hymns like this Fear not, I am with you. I'll strengthen you, help you, I will not desert you, my grace will be your supply. This is all from LSB seven two eight, Halferama Foundation. there other hymns like that. So I just want to say that it's there's a tradition of this. This is not something that Lutherans have been afraid of before in the musical tradition.
Kip Fox: Yeah, I love that. So as we maybe dig into one more thing ab on prose, now that we've
Steve Zank: Okay.
Kip Fox: covered the interlude we covered the the prelude, we covered verse one, the chorus I think is just beautifully simple. I want to talk a little bit about the bridge. On a s a song like this. it really as once we had kind of gotten those verses and choruses down, it just seemed natural to say, like, okay, so so go, right? Like what where do we go from here? You're always looking to move the story forward. And so it was pretty simple to to think about doing that. And also, The song has a lot of space in it. both the verses and the choruses do. And so it was kind of this natural thing to build in that bridge a little bit more urgency and energy. And
Steve Zank: Yeah.
Kip Fox: we maybe, you know, we certainly push the limits of perhaps what is comfortable for folks congregationally. I think it's great. I think it takes a couple of times probably to get the hang of the of the cadence of this. but I think it, yeah.
Steve Zank: Well the so the word go is the word go is it's syncopated, right? Like what what is that on? What beat
Kip Fox: Mm-hmm.
Steve Zank: is that on?
Kip Fox: Yeah. It's on the end of one. So go.
Steve Zank: Yeah, and I and I think one thing I thought about is with the if you have a choir sing the prelude, I
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: personally like the song with the prelude as a as a complete package song. I know some congregations
Kip Fox: Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Zank: may not do the prelude and just do the rest of the a verse one where you guys started off.
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: but if you do the prelude with some kind of qu choir or vocalist ensemble, I think
Kip Fox: Mm.
Steve Zank: then when you get to the go The go is naturally like a choir call response, you know? And the choir gets the they know this the
Kip Fox: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Steve Zank: rhythm right away and go and the congregation responds to the ends of the earth with the love and the joy and the hope and the pe the
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: peace and the hope. So I think that's kind of a cool tie back to the prelude again, where the song is playfully doing a little bit of call response potentially. You could
Kip Fox: Mm-hmm.
Steve Zank: you could sing it like the congregation is supposed to join in those sycopedic goes, absolutely. But there's something
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: kind of interesting I think about in the call response.
Kip Fox: Yeah, I I I agree. And I I do think there's a lot of there there's a a lot of ways to do this that other than just straight perform performing it or leading it with a band, like you said. really an interactive song that can be used in a few different ways. the last thing I'll say on the bridge is that as we had this cadence going, it was just sort of flowing and flowing. it was kind of a fun moment to realize that if we we we could at the end there on the last line go word for word, depending on the translation, with Matthew 2820. So the bridge ends, teaching them to obey all that I have commanded, behold, I am with you. And that
Steve Zank: So cool.
Kip Fox: just sort of happened naturally, like Okay,
Steve Zank: Yeah.
Kip Fox: go do this, go do this, go do this, and then wow, this fits perfectly with the cadence we already had. And so it's super fun. And yeah, that's kind of it as far as as far as I I have. We talk about the practical application unless you have anything else, Steve, on the process, the prompt or the pros.
Steve Zank: On the pros. Well, I just gotta say thank you again to the many partners that we have at the Center for Worship
Kip Fox: Mm.
Steve Zank: Leadership and in production of music. And maybe just worth slowing down for a second and just let you behind the scenes a little bit. Whenever we produce music, you know, we there's this this such a interesting, multi-layered, huge community that contributes. You have gatherings of writers that we put on and writers are coming together and writing music. Then we have these editorial processes where there's you know, even before that there's prompts. But then there's some doctrine review and looking at the lyrics and really tweaking them to try to bring out the most meaning we can. You know, so it's it's that fine line, right, where sometimes discovery is is the fun part. So if it's a lyric,
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: it's like when I sing I am with you, I'm referring to the great I am. It's like at
Kip Fox: Mm-hmm.
Steve Zank: some point you want there's to be self discovery. But so there's like a
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: whole process of doctrine review with editing. And then Kip, you're putting together all these plans for going in the studio and doing multiple songs at a time. There's musicians who are envisioning the song and how to get their heads around it. There's people doing videography. As you saw earlier, when you saw the video of Always, you'll know that you know there's people working on these things. And so we have such of course, beyond that, there's people who write down the charts, do the piano arrangements you can find on we've worship dot com. Dr. Kolb. Robert Kolb writes blogs for all these. So you'll find a blog on the theology of this song by Reformation scholar Robert Kolb, who we've had on the show before. And of course, we haven't mentioned mixed engineers and master engineers. So really kip vi video video
Kip Fox: Yeah. Video editing, all those things.
Steve Zank: editing on top of capture. And so just want to just pause and just say thank you to all those folks that are invested
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: in TSI in helping these songs make their way to the church. And we just our prayer and hope is that that besides Concordia University Irvine, who's already used this song several times in relation to its fiftieth anniversary and will continue to do so this year, we hope that it's a blessing to other congregations.
Kip Fox: but a really a a beautiful thing to to see cash all the different ways and people that God has put around this initiative and made made it all possible. So
Steve Zank: And we gotta talk about too are the donors who allow these things to happen because they offer financial gifts and contributions so that we can offer these songs to the church. And so it's just a a really amazing model of connecting people with a a vision, with a mission, the church coming together, being the church, bringing their gifts together to bear of encouragement and of writing. know, creativity and theology. And then really the all the arts of bringing it to life in in video and audio form. Just so much to be thankful for. So all the way from those that financially contribute to make it a reality to those that put the touches on the final version of the song. in everyone in between Kips Kip, you're kind of sh shepherding the entire process. So just give thanks to the whole crew, you know?
Kip Fox: Yeah, I love it. It's it's a it's a fun ride and it's just really cool to see congregations being served by it as well. And our our mission and goal at T S I is always to have have r songwriters serving their churches and so it's a great way to see that gosh Folks from all over the country, especially in this song, a couple of different states and three different ministries coming together to serve the greater good, but also their own congregations. It's really really fun.
Steve Zank: Yeah, so I guess to wrap up the practical application side, what are some of the Sundays kip of the church year you could see this song really being useful for?
Kip Fox: Well, I think Great Commission Sunday seems like a natural fit. Perhaps Pentecost?
Steve Zank: Yeah, or Ascension Day or the different days that they think about the Holy Spirit empowering the church for mission. And obviously, in terms of the service flow, any kind of day of the church year as a closing song, it could be useful, especially if there's missional themes in the sermon or in the readings. And yeah.
Kip Fox: Some folks like to call it a sending song, you know?
Steve Zank: All right, well, thank you for joining us for this episode of the Lutheran Worship Podcast. And I think on the day this is being released, Kip, we're gonna be in Saint Louis right now for the Wally Summit. So
Kip Fox: That's right.
Steve Zank: really excited about that. Joining together in community around God's word for a variety of devotional services and singing, hymns and songs and plenaries and breakouts. It's gonna be a great time, dinner, hang out. So we'll be doing that. And then Yeah, if you want to get the resources for always, check us out at weaveworship.com. There you could find charts and piano accompaniment and all sorts of resources connected to the song always, including a theological review. Kip, anything else you want to add?
Kip Fox: That's it. Go listen. All right. Thanks, Steve. Go.
Steve Zank: All right. Go, go,
Kip Fox: Look at that. Just like we planned it. See you later, Steve.
Steve Zank: Man. I
Kip Fox: I I can't believe I didn't reverently revere you.
Steve Zank: Well I you know, rev it's not reverent. well I I am reverent actually. It's not the one who
Kip Fox: There's a
Steve Zank: to whom reverence is owed. we should
Kip Fox: I think that's from the Latin Rev R E V.
Steve Zank: That's revision, like revision A, revision B, revision C.
Kip Fox: okay.
Steve Zank: this is a great start. gotta I gotta say though, Kip, I have deactivated the phone lines. I w I went into the system. People have been calling if you've if if you've noticed this or not, we've been getting
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: calls in during our show. And it's been it's been actually kinda cool. I've really liked it.
Kip Fox: Well, it's been great, but I'm sure it's not great when you're just trying to get work done and you're getting calls.
Steve Zank: all the time. Yeah.
Kip Fox: Lot of call ins.
Steve Zank: well anyway, so Kim, it's just the two of us today, which I think is gonna be really fun.
Kip Fox: It is just the two of us. And that's not we're not joking. That's n there's no surprise here. You really did turn off the phone lines and the the video phone lines. Good.
Steve Zank: Yeah. Yeah. I did. No, I did. Because because today we are talking about another one of the songs from the album Always. And listener, You know, Kip and I talked a little bit about the idea of doing the album on this show. And we decided to to lean into it and share with you this record song by song. And so today we're going be talking about the title track always. But as we do, we're going to try to talk about it in a way that's not just a commercial for an album, but really getting to the themes present in the songs that we're sharing today in the song always. And also so you can get to know us better, our ministry better, we can share with you the process that we do with these kind of songs with TSI. So today we're getting into the song Always from the album Always title track.
Kip Fox: That's right. Actually, Steve, we have we have a two for one because we are also going to discuss the Always Prelude, which is if you have heard the album, if you haven't go look at Songwriter Initiative on any of your streaming platforms. but the album starts with what we call the Always Prelude. and so we'll talk about that and then it goes right into the song Always. And we'll get into how that happened. but you're getting a two for one here today. We're gonna knock knock them both out, okay?
Steve Zank: I love it. I love it.
Kip Fox: You know what, Steve, why don't we pause right here to play the song for everybody?
Steven Zank: Time has come for me to go to the farther But I would never leave you orphaned and alone So I am with you always, always I am for you always, always Through the fire, through the flood You were mine, you were loved I am with you always, always Turn your ears to hear the voice of the hurting Turn your eyes to see the hopeless and the poor I will send my Holy Spirit with you I am for you all I am with
Steve Zank: we and we do this thing where We have the prompt,
Kip Fox: the prompt, the process, the pros, and the practical application.
Steve Zank: Yeah, so the song Always, Kip, I know you were one of the writers on that song. So what was the prompt? How'd you get into the theme of Always?
Kip Fox: Well, this is a good question. Let me say also my two co writers first. So I wrote this with Nate Sabin, who's at Woodbury Lutheran in up there in Woodbury, Minnesota, the Twin Cities. And then Adam Lamb, who's at Christ Green Field in Gilbert, Arizona. And we wrote this tune in January. So the prompt for this. thanks for asking, Steve. I was approached in November by some folks leadership at Concordia University Irvine, where we live and breathe and host this podcast from. And they were looking forward and ahead to the 50th anniversary of Concordia University Irvine, based on the Great Commission, specifically Matthew twenty eight twenty, I believe, right? Is it yeah.
Steve Zank: And let's just say real briefly, because I think it's important for listeners to know that Christ College, which was the original name of the university here that's become Concordia University Irvine, was founded, I think, in in a large part, the theme of the university was the Great Commission. So we were the Great Commission University, kind of from the beginning, So the theme of Great of the Great Commission on the fiftieth
Kip Fox: Mm-hmm.
Steve Zank: is a not a new theme, but a return to one that we're very comfortable with here at the university.
Kip Fox: Yeah, and so they gave me some language around that and what what they were thinking as as they were looking ahead to this grand celebration and because it's pretty cool fifty years. I came to those guys in January. I had really just initially come up with the that first line of the chorus, I am with you always, with the way that it kind of goes, I'm with you always. And that was it, and I knew I liked that, and so I but I didn't want to mess with it anymore. So I came to those guys in our writing session, told them what this prompt was, what it was all about, what we were writing for, said, here's the one thing that I have that I think would be a great starting point. sang it for him and said, Okay, can you guys help me write this song? And and they did, and I knew they would. And so it's it was really fun the process. There's there's this kind of interesting pressure that happens to say, Hey, we're gonna write for this. Not just like, hey, we wanna write for this prompt, but like we are trying to write for this and we're not really gonna There's no expectation that we won't find a way to write this, you know? On most songs, it's like, okay, here's the prompt. Let's try to write a great song. Okay, that went really well or it didn't. That's fine. This was like, no, no, no. We're gonna write it and it's gotta be good. But that kind of pressure kind of gives a a fun energy to the right. And so we started through that process we were working on how this a verse was going and situation was going to lead into this chorus line that we had started with. And Nate really was toying around and he found he found the melody, he found the the vibe, the chord changes, and he found the lyrics. and we're gonna cross over a little bit into into prose here, but process and prose at the same time. But it was his idea, To start with Jesus saying, The time has come for me to go, which is a reference, that whole verse is a reference to John 14. specifically verses 26 and 28. Jesus has washed the disciples' feet. This is the whole Last Supper situation where Jesus is giving his disciples all sorts of sort of final words and and parting peace. And so it was really cool. that he sort of started with that because you sort of visualize Jesus at the Great Commission, sort of standing there with all sorts of folks around. but to tie that into this intimate moment with the disciples and tie those two things together was really cool, I thought. And the same thing with I will send my spirit. So the line in the in the verse is the time has come for me to go to the Father, but I would never leave you orphaned and alone. I will send my spirit so you know. And so there's kind of this summarization of that text in John, which I think is just a really neat thing that Nate did. And so we were kind of off and running fr from that point on.
Steve Zank: It's really cool. It it feels like you're starting in the middle of a a movie, like in the middle of a car chase. Like like the very first
Kip Fox: Yeah, yeah.
Steve Zank: scene is like, what's going on here? These cars are chasing
Kip Fox: Right.
Steve Zank: each other.
Kip Fox: it's it's tricky to have Jesus speaking in the first person in a in a song like this too, as well, right? And so it was just really beautiful how Nate did that somewhat effortlessly. And here I'm gonna before we get into more of the the lyrics of the song, we're gonna go backwards now with process to say that now that you brought that up in terms of where we started, after writing this the full always tune, we went through doctrinal view and the a suggestion was made that would there be any way to give a little bit more context to this, to to the the to who's speaking and The the authority to be speaking these words, right? Is there any way to kind of give a little bit more context to the story for folks that might be just hearing it for the first time? And so we went back and I I really appreciated that feedback and I went back to the writers and we were really trying to figure out how to do that with this song. And we had really decided that we really felt like we wrote a well crafted, tight knit s tightly knit song. And so again it was Nate who's who had this suggestion. Well, what if we wrote sort of an intro to the song or a piece of the song beforehand that isn't a part of the song but but goes into it? Which again, that seems simple in retrospect, but at the time it's like, man, that's great. Let's do that. And so we had latched on to the concept that maybe a way to present that authority would be to look into the I am statements of Jesus, right? Especially 'cause we have this I am with you always from the Great Commission. But what if we then took that I am as as sort of a turn of phrase using Jesus' own words and establishes authority by then saying in the prelude, we easily got into before before the days of Abraham, I am, I am, even before the world began, I am, I am. Touch the wound here in my side
Steve Zank: Touched the wound here on my side.
Kip Fox: and the scars on my hands, no time or place, I will not be. I am. So just that connection of these I am statements from Jesus to also the promise of the original song from the Great Commission and Matthew 28, 20, which is, I am with you always. So that's how we got the prelude.
Steve Zank: I love how that yeah. And I I love how that opens up the chorus for even more meaning. You know,
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: so sort of just the idea of like I'm with you always. You and you
Kip Fox: Right.
Steve Zank: might and you might catch on that without that prelude, the the connection with
Kip Fox: Mm-hmm.
Steve Zank: that with I am being the name of of God. but with the prelude it really draws out this connection. The great I am with you always. You know, it's really
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: a cool connection. And I I really liked actually the the cosmic scale. And the way I think you guys did it in the production side, the different kind of vocoder aesthetic you gave to that section really gives it an otherworldly feel and then really brings you into that that song in the close in the kind of closeness, which I think is really cool.
Kip Fox: Yeah, and that was really fun. I I've always been interested and loved certain songs that that use vocoder. and a lot of times in a talk that I give on on creativity, with Luther and his his theology of music, I use an example of a vocoder and so Adam knew that and so as we were writing that intro and we'd kind of finished up when we liked what it was. I think it was Adam who on the production side was said, Hey, you know what we could do? And and I and I said, No, we can't do that. They no way, right? Are you guys
Steve Zank: Nice.
Kip Fox: serious? Because it was too exciting of an idea. And again, that's
Steve Zank: Yeah.
Kip Fox: where I love again, as we sort of stand in this Lutheran d tradition of creative freedom. when it comes to proclaiming the gospel. It was really cool to have the support of those guys, of you, Steve, of everybody involved with sort of making the decisions on how we how we do things, to really have nothing but the green light for something like that. Super fun.
Steve Zank: And I th I think it's a way you can think of it like a choral interlude, like a choral prelude. In other words, it
Kip Fox: Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Zank: it has that same vibe where there's a section of the song that's sung by a choir and you listen to it and then you join in the first verse. And I think it also helps set the set the tone for the song that it's Jesus speaking. And he starts
Kip Fox: Mm.
Steve Zank: by speaking kind of over you, it through the choir or through the the small
Kip Fox: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Steve Zank: worship band that's singing it, and then you join in in his own voice. it's a really cool way to address this song of I'm with you always.
Kip Fox: Yeah, I remember talking about that a little bit. Okay, say we're gonna do this vocoder thing, but really what it is what it is is a is a choir, yeah. And so you could certainly translate that and have have a really cool piece for your congregation or whatever. So yeah, man, I appreciate you pointing that out.
Steve Zank: I was thinking about this just re recently, the idea of speaking for Jesus, you know, I am with you. Obviously
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: the I is not us, it's it's ge it's God, it's in Jesus Christ. And there are examples of this in the hymns In LSB, for example, there are hymns like this Fear not, I am with you. I'll strengthen you, help you, I will not desert you, my grace will be your supply. This is all from LSB seven two eight, Halferama Foundation. there other hymns like that. So I just want to say that it's there's a tradition of this. This is not something that Lutherans have been afraid of before in the musical tradition.
Kip Fox: Yeah, I love that. So as we maybe dig into one more thing ab on prose, now that we've
Steve Zank: Okay.
Kip Fox: covered the interlude we covered the the prelude, we covered verse one, the chorus I think is just beautifully simple. I want to talk a little bit about the bridge. On a s a song like this. it really as once we had kind of gotten those verses and choruses down, it just seemed natural to say, like, okay, so so go, right? Like what where do we go from here? You're always looking to move the story forward. And so it was pretty simple to to think about doing that. And also, The song has a lot of space in it. both the verses and the choruses do. And so it was kind of this natural thing to build in that bridge a little bit more urgency and energy. And
Steve Zank: Yeah.
Kip Fox: we maybe, you know, we certainly push the limits of perhaps what is comfortable for folks congregationally. I think it's great. I think it takes a couple of times probably to get the hang of the of the cadence of this. but I think it, yeah.
Steve Zank: Well the so the word go is the word go is it's syncopated, right? Like what what is that on? What beat
Kip Fox: Mm-hmm.
Steve Zank: is that on?
Kip Fox: Yeah. It's on the end of one. So go.
Steve Zank: Yeah, and I and I think one thing I thought about is with the if you have a choir sing the prelude, I
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: personally like the song with the prelude as a as a complete package song. I know some congregations
Kip Fox: Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Zank: may not do the prelude and just do the rest of the a verse one where you guys started off.
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: but if you do the prelude with some kind of qu choir or vocalist ensemble, I think
Kip Fox: Mm.
Steve Zank: then when you get to the go The go is naturally like a choir call response, you know? And the choir gets the they know this the
Kip Fox: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Steve Zank: rhythm right away and go and the congregation responds to the ends of the earth with the love and the joy and the hope and the pe the
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: peace and the hope. So I think that's kind of a cool tie back to the prelude again, where the song is playfully doing a little bit of call response potentially. You could
Kip Fox: Mm-hmm.
Steve Zank: you could sing it like the congregation is supposed to join in those sycopedic goes, absolutely. But there's something
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: kind of interesting I think about in the call response.
Kip Fox: Yeah, I I I agree. And I I do think there's a lot of there there's a a lot of ways to do this that other than just straight perform performing it or leading it with a band, like you said. really an interactive song that can be used in a few different ways. the last thing I'll say on the bridge is that as we had this cadence going, it was just sort of flowing and flowing. it was kind of a fun moment to realize that if we we we could at the end there on the last line go word for word, depending on the translation, with Matthew 2820. So the bridge ends, teaching them to obey all that I have commanded, behold, I am with you. And that
Steve Zank: So cool.
Kip Fox: just sort of happened naturally, like Okay,
Steve Zank: Yeah.
Kip Fox: go do this, go do this, go do this, and then wow, this fits perfectly with the cadence we already had. And so it's super fun. And yeah, that's kind of it as far as as far as I I have. We talk about the practical application unless you have anything else, Steve, on the process, the prompt or the pros.
Steve Zank: On the pros. Well, I just gotta say thank you again to the many partners that we have at the Center for Worship
Kip Fox: Mm.
Steve Zank: Leadership and in production of music. And maybe just worth slowing down for a second and just let you behind the scenes a little bit. Whenever we produce music, you know, we there's this this such a interesting, multi-layered, huge community that contributes. You have gatherings of writers that we put on and writers are coming together and writing music. Then we have these editorial processes where there's you know, even before that there's prompts. But then there's some doctrine review and looking at the lyrics and really tweaking them to try to bring out the most meaning we can. You know, so it's it's that fine line, right, where sometimes discovery is is the fun part. So if it's a lyric,
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: it's like when I sing I am with you, I'm referring to the great I am. It's like at
Kip Fox: Mm-hmm.
Steve Zank: some point you want there's to be self discovery. But so there's like a
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: whole process of doctrine review with editing. And then Kip, you're putting together all these plans for going in the studio and doing multiple songs at a time. There's musicians who are envisioning the song and how to get their heads around it. There's people doing videography. As you saw earlier, when you saw the video of Always, you'll know that you know there's people working on these things. And so we have such of course, beyond that, there's people who write down the charts, do the piano arrangements you can find on we've worship dot com. Dr. Kolb. Robert Kolb writes blogs for all these. So you'll find a blog on the theology of this song by Reformation scholar Robert Kolb, who we've had on the show before. And of course, we haven't mentioned mixed engineers and master engineers. So really kip vi video video
Kip Fox: Yeah. Video editing, all those things.
Steve Zank: editing on top of capture. And so just want to just pause and just say thank you to all those folks that are invested
Kip Fox: Yeah.
Steve Zank: in TSI in helping these songs make their way to the church. And we just our prayer and hope is that that besides Concordia University Irvine, who's already used this song several times in relation to its fiftieth anniversary and will continue to do so this year, we hope that it's a blessing to other congregations.
Kip Fox: but a really a a beautiful thing to to see cash all the different ways and people that God has put around this initiative and made made it all possible. So
Steve Zank: And we gotta talk about too are the donors who allow these things to happen because they offer financial gifts and contributions so that we can offer these songs to the church. And so it's just a a really amazing model of connecting people with a a vision, with a mission, the church coming together, being the church, bringing their gifts together to bear of encouragement and of writing. know, creativity and theology. And then really the all the arts of bringing it to life in in video and audio form. Just so much to be thankful for. So all the way from those that financially contribute to make it a reality to those that put the touches on the final version of the song. in everyone in between Kips Kip, you're kind of sh shepherding the entire process. So just give thanks to the whole crew, you know?
Kip Fox: Yeah, I love it. It's it's a it's a fun ride and it's just really cool to see congregations being served by it as well. And our our mission and goal at T S I is always to have have r songwriters serving their churches and so it's a great way to see that gosh Folks from all over the country, especially in this song, a couple of different states and three different ministries coming together to serve the greater good, but also their own congregations. It's really really fun.
Steve Zank: Yeah, so I guess to wrap up the practical application side, what are some of the Sundays kip of the church year you could see this song really being useful for?
Kip Fox: Well, I think Great Commission Sunday seems like a natural fit. Perhaps Pentecost?
Steve Zank: Yeah, or Ascension Day or the different days that they think about the Holy Spirit empowering the church for mission. And obviously, in terms of the service flow, any kind of day of the church year as a closing song, it could be useful, especially if there's missional themes in the sermon or in the readings. And yeah.
Kip Fox: Some folks like to call it a sending song, you know?
Steve Zank: All right, well, thank you for joining us for this episode of the Lutheran Worship Podcast. And I think on the day this is being released, Kip, we're gonna be in Saint Louis right now for the Wally Summit. So
Kip Fox: That's right.
Steve Zank: really excited about that. Joining together in community around God's word for a variety of devotional services and singing, hymns and songs and plenaries and breakouts. It's gonna be a great time, dinner, hang out. So we'll be doing that. And then Yeah, if you want to get the resources for always, check us out at weaveworship.com. There you could find charts and piano accompaniment and all sorts of resources connected to the song always, including a theological review. Kip, anything else you want to add?
Kip Fox: That's it. Go listen. All right. Thanks, Steve. Go.
Steve Zank: All right. Go, go,
Kip Fox: Look at that. Just like we planned it. See you later, Steve.
