587: Daniel Negreanu - Responding To Failure, Risking It All, Getting Rich, Embracing Criticism, Taking Ownership of Your Life, & How To Rea

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The skill actually in poker is self-awareness to know where
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you stand. How do you stack up against your opponents?
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Because that's really the difference.
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You're inducted into the Hall of Fame.
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I didn't play poker for the money. I play because
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I love it. I want to get to that next level.
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What's the feeling like knowing these chips are like all
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the money I have?
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There's two types of people in most situations. There are
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those that absolutely just crumble under the pressure and cannot
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play their games. And there's others where when their back's
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against the wall, something deep brings out the animal in.
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What are some of the commonalities among poker players who
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sustain excellence over an extended period of time?
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Self-awareness and humility. It teaches you the difference between being
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a victim to circumstance or standing responsible for your results.
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Whenever you make a big mistake, that's an opportunity. It's
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a beautiful opportunity. Without pain, there can be no glory.
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There can be no joy.
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Welcome to the Learning Leader Show presented by Insight Global.
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I am your host, Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much
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for being here. Text HAWK to 66866 to become part
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of Mindful Monday. You, along with tens of thousands of
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other learning leaders from all over the world, will receive
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a carefully curated email from me each Monday morning. help
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you start your week all right you'll also receive details
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about how our new book the score that matters will.
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Help you become a more effective leader text hawk to
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66866 now on to tonight's.
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Featured leader Daniel Negreanu has earned over $ 52 million at
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the poker table, which ranks him as the highest earning
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player in live tournament poker history. He's won six World
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Series of Poker bracelets, two World Poker Tour titles, and
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Daniel was inducted into the Poker Hall of Fame in 2014.
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He's often referred to as Kid Poker and is known
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as for his charismatic personality at the table.
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During our conversation, we discuss.
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Daniel's exceptional skill to read someone and know what hand
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they're holding and how he and you can apply this
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skill off of the table. And then he shares the
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importance of having an owner's mentality as opposed to a
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victim mentality, especially when dealing with bad luck or other
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adversity in your life. Then Daniel described how he maintains
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a high level of.
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Self-awareness, which I think his tools could help you.
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And then we talked about why he loves the Rocky
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movies and the lessons we can learn from each one
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that will make us better leaders. Ladies and gentlemen, this
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one was so much fun. Please enjoy Daniel Negreanu. Daniel, man,
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a longtime fan. It is awesome to have you here
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on The Learning Leader Show.
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Welcome. Welcome. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
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I wrote a story that you told your mom at
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the age of four that you were going to grow
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up and be rich. You were really ambitious even as
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a young kid. I'm curious, where does that ambition come from?
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It's funny you knew that because very few people do,
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but it's actually a kind of a silly story. You're
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four years old.
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You don't know anything.
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And I told my mom, I said, I'm going to
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move to California because I couldn't say California. And she said, well,
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how are you going to move? And I said, well,
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are you going to build a house? And I said, yeah.
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She said, out of what? And I said, out of matches.
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I don't know.
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I'm a kid, right? It ended up being poker and
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playing cards. But I don't know. I feel like we're
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all different. My brother was raised by the same parents, right?
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He didn't take the same path that I did. So
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part of that is innate. Part of that is who
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I was. I was sort of a competitive, driven, self-motivated
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believer in myself. Again, I don't believe in the idea
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that we're all born a blank slate. We all have
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our own unique. I mean, otherwise, you know, you couldn't
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make sense of two kids being grown in the same house,
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just totally different lifestyles or ways of thinking. So for me,
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I just have that innate resilience and confidence in myself
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that if I say I'm going to do something, I'm going.
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To do it.
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And even be able to fight through something. So let's
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fast forward a bit in your life. when you're in
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pool halls, you're gambling, your high school dropout, right? All
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this stuff before we get to you making it big
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as a poker player. So what was it like in
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your late teen years?
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Yeah, so I grew up in Toronto, right? And in Toronto,
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we played snooker. You know, here in America, it's mostly
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eight ball, nine ball and whatnot. But we played snooker
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and I just started playing pool and I really enjoyed
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the competitive aspect. As I said, I've always had sort
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of that competitive spirit and started to get better at that.
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And then some people introduced me to poker. And they're like,
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we're going to go play this game. I grabbed six
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beers with $ 10, lost my 10 bucks. My six beers
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were gone, but I enjoyed it. And then we started
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to do that more regularly. And I started to notice
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the same guys keep winning. And I thought, wait a minute.
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I thought this was all luck. Well, if it's all luck, well,
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what's going on here? So then my observational skills started
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to come out. I'm like, what are they doing? What
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are they doing differently than the other people that makes
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them win? And then it became like a puzzle. that
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I had to solve. And I became sort of, I guess,
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for lack of a better term, obsessed with solving the puzzle.
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How quickly did you get good at the game?
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I would say, you know, varying degrees of good, right?
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So at that early level as a teenager, good enough
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to beat those guys that I was playing with probably
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two months, because again, it's very elementary, very beginner, right?
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As far as like, you know, like, again, it's such a,
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I mean, it's a fair question, but it's such an
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interesting term, like good, right? The thing about poker is
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if you're good in relation to the people you're playing,
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you're great. But that doesn't mean that if you played
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with the five best players, you'd not be good. You'd
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be terrible, right? So that's part of the skill actually
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in poker is self-awareness to know where you stand. How
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do you stack up against your opponents? Because that's really
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the difference. Let's say, for example, I could be a
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much better poker player than you, right? But if you
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find seven, eight guys to play with that are terrible
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that I don't get access to, you can make a
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whole lot more money than I do, even though I'm
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a better player than you.
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So some of it's game selection, which you then found out, right?
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Because you're good where you were. You decide to go
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to Vegas to say, let's see if this can make
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it happen. What happened once you got to Las Vegas?
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So again, I've sort of was cut from a different cloth, right?
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So saying all the things that I did about, you know,
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finding games where people are weak and all that, that's
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not why I did this because I didn't play poker
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for the money. I play because I love it and
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I want to get to that next level. So rather
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than just sit with the players I knew I could beat,
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you know, and maintain and, you know, have a, make
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a decent living, I wanted to test myself. So I
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kept reaching higher. And when you do that, you go
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broke often. Okay. That's just part of the process. And
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you can see a lot of successful entrepreneurs, they rarely
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got it right on their very first try. They failed
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at several different things before they found the one thing
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that worked. So for me, I always pushed myself. I
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did things that were high risk in terms of my
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bankroll and things like that, but it's just how I
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was built. And I always knew that, okay, when that
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doesn't work out, I'm just going to go back down there,
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play the smaller stakes against the guys I can beat.
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Then I'm going to build my money back up. I'm
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going right back. I'm getting right back in the ring
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and I'm going to fight against the best.
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What's the feeling like early in your life. Cause now
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you don't really, you're not putting your entire net worth
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on the table anymore. You have enough money. You don't
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have to do that. But at those days you literally did.
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And then you lost it all. What's the feeling like
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knowing these chips are like all the money I have.
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I got to, I just can't imagine how hard it
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would be to like, try to run a big bluff
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or to, to, to make decisions when your net worth
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is literally on the table in front of you.
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Yeah. I'd say there's two types of people in those situations.
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They're those that absolutely just crumble under the pressure and
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cannot play their best. And there's others where when their
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back's against the wall, something deep brings out the animal
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in them that you're not getting my money, I'm going
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to win. Like every little decision is just life or
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death and you're gonna fight till the death. And that
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was me. So when I had my back against the wall,
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I felt like I was at my best, if you will.
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I love the Rocky movies. And one of my favorite
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movies is Rocky III, where Rocky's already the champ, right?
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So now he's doing commercials. He's doing kissing babies. He's
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doing all this stuff. What's Clubber Lang doing? Grinding, sweating
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in the gym. What happens? Clubber Lang beats Rocky, which
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tells Rocky, he's like, you've got to go back to
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your roots. You know, Another sort of thing I heard was,
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I can't remember the boxer's name, but he was asked,
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you know, because he's already successful, he's rich. They asked him, like,
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do you find it difficult to motivate yourself? He says,
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you know what? It's a lot harder to do the
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3 a.m. run in silk pajamas, right? So I think
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for a lot of people, the journey towards the top
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makes sense. It's easy, if you will. Not easy, I mean,
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but you have a daily goal. Once you reach the top,
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staying there, maintaining, continuing to find ways to challenge yourself,
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That's where things become very difficult, especially in poker.
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Well, think of it, you're like the best example of
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this in the world when it comes to poker. You're
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inducted into the Hall of Fame years ago. I remember
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looking at the pictures and seeing that night and reading
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about it on social media and reading your blog when
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you got inducted. It felt like yesterday, but it's been
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a decade. I feel like you've evolved and updated your
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style of play and learned from the young guys, the
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computer guys. It feels like you've really been adept, especially
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when you compare to a Phil Hellmuth or somebody who's
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kind of stuck in his old style of like, no,
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I don't need to evolve. I'd love to hear your
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philosophy on I'm in the Hall of Fame 10 years ago,
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and yet constantly evolving and updating and trying to get
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better and better and learn from people younger than me
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who haven't accomplished what you have accomplished in order to improve.
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Yeah, so there's two key words I would bring up.
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One I sort of touched on, which is self-awareness, and
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the other one is humility. The self-awareness to realize, listen,
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you're great at the game, but these kids are learning
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things that you don't understand. Right. Then the humility to say,
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teach me.
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Right.
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I remember early on back in the horseshoe in the
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late 90s, actually, I was a young up and comer
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and I was playing some of these guys who were
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established big names. And I was doing things that was
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really better than them. But they were scoffing. Oh, these
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kids today, they don't know. And I remember in that
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moment saying, never be that guy. Never be the guy
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who rests on your laurels and thinks you can't learn something.
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I think this applies to everything, like whether it's business,
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you know, guys who used to pick stocks and they
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did so based on feel and instinct. It's like, all right,
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you know, there's these quant guys who can parse this data.
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You can poo poo that stuff or you can use
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it as a tool to to improve upon how you proceed.
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So what I did was I hired a couple of
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guys to teach me. I didn't know how to do
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all this solver AI stuff, but they taught me and
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it was a process. Because again, I've spent 30 years
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playing a certain way and now they're teaching me all
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this new stuff. But the thing is, is I took that,
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I combined it with the wisdom I have of 30
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years to create sort of a bridge between old school
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exploit play versus game theory based play.
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Not to get too into the weeds of poker, because
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I'm not a very good poker player, but I love
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watching poker, Daniel. It's amazing, especially how your recent seasons
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of high stakes poker are literally, you asked my wife,
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I've probably watched those episodes a lot, over and over
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and over. I'm like, how does he know? How does
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he know when the guy's bluffing? How does he know
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when he has the best hand? Because I'm trying to
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cover up the cards. I'm like, there is no possible
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way I would know. And so maybe we could get
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into your mind of whether it's running a big bluff
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and pulling it off or knowing when to fold a
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great hand or knowing when to say, yeah, I think
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I'm going to get maximum value out of this hand.
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I'm amazed at all of the decision making and the
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thought that goes into it. So I know this is
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pretty deep and it's a lot, but I'm curious what
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goes into, especially high stakes poker. These are cash games.
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It's not a tournament. You can rebuy if you lose it,
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but it's deep, deep stacks often. So a lot of
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money can be won and lost and there's just so
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much that goes into it. So overall, I'm just curious
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what goes into your mind, especially because early on in
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high stakes poker, you struggled at times, got unlucky, I think,
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quite a bit. And then later on, it's become a
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really profitable game for you, it seems like.
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Yeah. Well, here's the thing. Before you even get to
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the specific hand or anything like that, step one, really,
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in every poker game is figure out, all right, who
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am I playing with?
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Right?
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What are their tendencies? That's step one. How do they play?
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Does this guy bluff a lot? Does he never bluff?
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What types of moves does he make? What does his
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bet sizing mean? Things like that. That's step one. Step
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two is what does each individual player think of me, right?
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Like Bill in seat one might think I bluff all
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the time. So I need to know that and go, okay,
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you know what? Don't bluff this guy because he calls
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too much. Seat two might be Joe and Joe's like, dad,
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I'd get never bluff. So I got to come up
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with some creative ones there. So it's player profiles. And
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how do you do that? You do that by being observational.
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You pay attention. You look at the hands they're playing,
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the ways in which they play them, and you collect
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that data. I use my phone and I take notes.
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whenever I see specific things, whether it's physical tells, whether it's,
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you know, betting patterns that are unique and different, right?
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So once you've done this, now game theory, for those
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that don't know, like game theory is about just like
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being unexploitable. This is the baseline. This is what you do, right?
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So learning that baseline is valuable, right? But what I
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do is I'm like, okay, this is the baseline, but
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I'm not playing against the computer. I'm playing against Joe
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and Joe thinks I never bluff. So even though the
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computer says don't bluff here, it's Joe. I'm going to,
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I'm going to do something that's outside of game theory.
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I'm going to exploit Joe because Joe thinks I never bluff. Right.
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So there's always this psychological back and forth, this, what
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we call leveling game where, you know, now that once
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he starts to figure that out, that I am bluffing him, maybe,
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you know, then maybe I have to switch again. And
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it's like a cat and mouse game in that regard.
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So some people I think show their hands when they
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don't need to And I don't know if they fully
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think it through. I feel like every time I've watched
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you on TV show your hand, there's a reason. You're
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not doing it just for fun or just for TV.
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There's a reason. So can you explain why?
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Let's say you run a bluff and they fold and
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you show them. Or they fold and you actually had it,
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like you had the hand. Can you walk through the
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decision-making process of that alone, of why you would show
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your hand to somebody after either a bluff or you
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had the best hand?
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Yeah, so I would not recommend amateurs to do that.
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Never show your hand. I use psychological warfare. So what
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I call that is I call that planting seeds, right?
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I want you to see this. I want you to
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know what I just did. I want this to stick
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in your brain because I'm going to find a way
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to take advantage of that later. In a week from
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now or two weeks, we're playing again. And, you know,
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I have it this time. But you remember, oh, no,
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but he does bluff here, right? Or I might never
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do it again. And it's all about, again, the leveling
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or the psychological aspect. Again, I don't recommend it unless
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you play at a very high level. Generally speaking, there's
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no value in showing your hand and giving people free information.
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It's only valuable if you think you have an advantage. Like,
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I'm not going to show Phil Ivey my hand. No,
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there's no seed.
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You would never show an advanced player like that. I'm
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not going to.
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Show it because he's too damn good. So you think, like,
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I'm not going to. So the thing is, you show
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hands to people that you believe you're better than and
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you can exploit. You don't do that against the killers
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because the killers are just going to see what you did.
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They're going to know why you did it. And they're
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going to know, okay, he's showing me this because he
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thinks I'm going to think this. So you end up
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shooting yourself in the foot against really good players.
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So I think decision-making is a massive element of poker
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and there's probably your full masterclass, which is on masterclass
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that you could probably learn about decision-making. How do you
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go about making big decisions both on the poker table
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as well as how does that transfer off? Maybe in
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your business life or making decisions of who to partner
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with or who to work with, who you're going to
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take on as a sponsor. You're put to the test
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to make decisions all the time.
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Do I fold? Do I bet? Do I raise? What
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do I do here?
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So what's your overall mentality when it comes to making
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big decisions?
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So that's evolved too, right? As a result of sort
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of taking in solver work, you know, A, using AI,
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the way in which I approach a problem now, and
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I don't know if this applies necessarily to all things,
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but poker it does. The first thing I do is
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in the situation, what is the correct answer?
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Okay.
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All things, forget about who it is. Forget about that.
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Like in theory, if it was game theory optimal, what
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is the best play to make here? What is the
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correct frequency or whatever? Now that I've got that baseline,
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I say, okay, but now who am I playing? Right.
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So now I'm understanding my customer, if you will. And
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then I'm understanding what I need to tailor to do
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differently for them. So I guess the analogy would be like,
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if I were to try to sell something to somebody,
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I need to know what they care about, what matters
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to them, what type of person are they? Are they
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a numbers guy? Like, do they just want to hear
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like the data, the numbers? Are they someone who actually
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wants to meet, like feels like they need to be
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cared for? Like that shows that I actually care about
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their best interests. Are they somebody who's just like, you know,
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ADD kind of thing? They just want to know that
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it's going to be fun and cool, right? So once
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I figured out the different quadrants that they're in, then
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you know how to relate and speak to people in
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a much more efficient way. And again, it starts from
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a baseline, but I'm always looking at situations and people
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and thinking of like, where do they come from? What
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type of person am I dealing with? And that does translate,
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I think.
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How quickly can you learn that about a person? How
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many rounds? How long do you think it would take?
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I'll give you an example.
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If you're playing poker with me, you would learn probably
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pretty quickly that I have a problem of always believing people.
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This can be good off the poker table, bad at
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the table. Meaning, if you bet, I'm like, well, he's
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probably got it. You'd realize that and you'd bluff me
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and then you would win. It would be pretty easy.
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You'd probably learn that pretty quick. Plays premium hands. struggles
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to think somebody's bluffing. And so he's pretty easy beat.
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That's why I don't play much poker anymore. I like
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to watch it. So how long does it take you
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to learn something like that about me or about anyone
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else you're playing poker with? All right.
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Well, first of all, what you said about your traits,
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that's actually a very good trait to have. It is.
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Because the biggest mistake most beginners make is they never
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believe anybody. And then they end up calling too much.
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00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:23.440
Sounds like you're not wasting those chips.
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00:18:23.579 --> 00:18:25.720
I've been fooled too much. No, no.
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Generally, when people bet, that means they do have something really,
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really good. I forgot the second part of your question
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as I was thinking about that.
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Well, I was saying like, how long does it take?
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Oh, how long does it take?
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Because some of the guys you play with, I'm thinking
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again of high stakes poker.
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I wish you were on the most recent season. Hopefully
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you're on future ones. But anyway.
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How long does it take if you don't know the person?
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You've heard a little bit about them. They're probably a
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rich guy or something if they're at a table where
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you're playing. But how long until you're like, okay, I
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got a pretty good feel of how they play?
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Well, it really does obviously depend on the type of
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person you're dealing with. If it's a quiet person who's
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not saying much, not engaging, not doing anything, just playing
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their hands, then all you really have is the hands
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they play. And if there's nine people at a table,
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they might be playing 20, 30% of the hands. That's
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not enough of a sample size in a short period
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of time against them. I would say typically within an
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hour or so, I have some sort of idea of
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what my opponents are doing sometimes much more quickly depending.
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But usually like the thing is at one hour, I
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have a general idea at two hours. I have a
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much better idea after a session. I have a pretty
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good idea after a month, you know, I'm pretty dialed in,
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but like there's always new information coming and you always
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have to pay attention to see like the thing that's
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hard for, I think for people in general is like
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when you have a belief that something is true, right.
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then when you are confronted with evidence that sort of
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dispels it, rather than just accept it and say, okay,
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I mean, I was wrong. People try to justify, oh,
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00:19:46.339 --> 00:19:47.980
he probably just did this one time. You know, that's
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not him. Like, I think that's true away from the
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poker table too, like confirmation bias. We want to believe
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that we're right. So when we see information that corroborates
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our beliefs, okay, that must be right. And we don't
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even look into it. Whereas if there was information that
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contradicted our belief, we go, well, who wrote the study?
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Where did it come from? Who backed it? But you
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don't do that when it's stuff that like is aligned
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with what you believe.
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One of the things I think you used to be
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00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:15.920
more famous for, and maybe not as much anymore is
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talking through a hand, realizing you were beat and then
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paying the guy off, right? You would literally talk through
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exactly what happened. They would have the exact hand you
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would say they had, and it was better than your hand.
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And then you'd call.
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I'm like, I'm sure you get like people, your friends
457
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talk to you about this. It's, it's been on TV
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quite a bit. And I feel like that's less of
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that has happened over the last maybe few years. So
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I'm curious, like your, your mindset of talking through the
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entire thing, saying what they have, it's better than your
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hand and still calling anyway.
463
00:20:49.650 --> 00:20:53.099
Yeah. That ultimately is about, it's an internal, internal battle
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of trust, of trusting what I just said.
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Right.
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So I'm saying what I think they have to work
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through the hand, right? But when you play poker, you're
468
00:21:00.869 --> 00:21:03.569
getting what's called pot odds. Like I have at 500,
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but there's 3000 out there. Okay, so even though I
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think that's it, in theory, I should still call with
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00:21:08.430 --> 00:21:11.960
my hand because I'm getting odds, right? So once you
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start to have more trust in yourself, then you can say, okay,
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you know what? I'm just gonna go with what I believe.
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But again, when you do that, it's an internal battle
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because you're making them play, you're making them move that isn't,
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as I used the term before, correct. In theory, it's
477
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:27.750
like you have to call with this hand. but something
478
00:21:27.789 --> 00:21:29.920
about it says, I know that this guy has it.
479
00:21:30.410 --> 00:21:33.250
So that's probably something that over the last 10 years,
480
00:21:33.289 --> 00:21:36.049
I've really improved upon in terms of like, trust myself.
481
00:21:36.269 --> 00:21:38.210
You know, even if sometimes you're going to look stupid
482
00:21:38.490 --> 00:21:39.950
and you're going to make a fold and you were wrong,
483
00:21:40.289 --> 00:21:42.569
but more often than not, you know, if you're that
484
00:21:42.650 --> 00:21:44.349
dialed in, you're going to be right.
485
00:21:45.410 --> 00:21:48.529
I love studying the commonalities of leaders who sustain excellence
486
00:21:48.569 --> 00:21:50.549
over time. That's again, one of the big reasons I
487
00:21:50.569 --> 00:21:52.940
wanted to have you on because you've, it seems like
488
00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:56.519
even improved as you've, you've continued on in your poker
489
00:21:56.539 --> 00:21:59.339
career and not all players do. It seems like a
490
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:02.960
lot of the ones that were popular or famous back
491
00:22:03.140 --> 00:22:05.240
in the early days of you being on TV are
492
00:22:05.289 --> 00:22:07.349
not really around anymore. Some of them are, but not,
493
00:22:07.430 --> 00:22:09.630
not a lot of them are. And you are, when
494
00:22:09.670 --> 00:22:12.670
you think about your profession, what are some of the
495
00:22:12.710 --> 00:22:16.650
commonalities among poker players who sustain excellence over an extended
496
00:22:16.730 --> 00:22:17.450
period of time?
497
00:22:18.630 --> 00:22:20.710
Yeah, again, I, you know, going back to self, you know,
498
00:22:20.750 --> 00:22:25.910
self-awareness and humility, always continuing to look to improve upon
499
00:22:25.950 --> 00:22:27.529
your game. Because if you ever get to the place
500
00:22:27.589 --> 00:22:29.410
in poker where you feel like I've got it figured out,
501
00:22:29.690 --> 00:22:33.190
I'm there, right? So now you're here and you stay here, okay? Well,
502
00:22:33.230 --> 00:22:35.660
everyone else is getting better. So while you were a
503
00:22:35.690 --> 00:22:38.140
step ahead, they're continuing to get better and you're not.
504
00:22:38.660 --> 00:22:41.140
So at some point they surpass you. And when that happens,
505
00:22:41.500 --> 00:22:43.480
you have to have the recognition to say, okay, well,
506
00:22:43.539 --> 00:22:45.720
I need to update some things. I need to fix things.
507
00:22:45.740 --> 00:22:47.480
I need to think about what I'm doing. So I
508
00:22:47.500 --> 00:22:50.539
would say, Every six months or so, I kind of
509
00:22:50.579 --> 00:22:52.799
take a look at that, but really it's like every,
510
00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:54.880
sometimes every like two to three years, I'm like, wait
511
00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:57.500
a minute. All right. What's this about? What are they doing?
512
00:22:57.940 --> 00:23:00.049
Why isn't this thing that I've been doing working? What
513
00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:02.490
can I use? What can I switch? I'm always looking
514
00:23:02.509 --> 00:23:05.289
to update. That's the beautiful thing about poker. Really? You
515
00:23:05.369 --> 00:23:07.829
never will master it. You'll never be perfect. It's a
516
00:23:07.869 --> 00:23:11.309
game of incomplete information and you're always going to be
517
00:23:11.349 --> 00:23:13.470
making mistakes, but similar to golf, the goal is to
518
00:23:13.509 --> 00:23:16.309
make the mistakes very small rather than the big miss
519
00:23:16.349 --> 00:23:18.650
where it goes in the woods. You're like, all right, well,
520
00:23:18.990 --> 00:23:22.009
instead of being within three yards, I'm six yards. Okay,
521
00:23:22.049 --> 00:23:24.170
that's fine. But I'm not out of bounds or anything
522
00:23:24.190 --> 00:23:26.700
like that. And with poker, you want to avoid, as
523
00:23:26.740 --> 00:23:28.319
you get better, just making the big mistakes.
524
00:23:28.859 --> 00:23:30.680
How do you deal with the luck portion?
525
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:34.400
Let's say you make the exact right decisions and you
526
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:36.480
get it in good and then the cards don't turn
527
00:23:36.500 --> 00:23:38.440
your way, like maybe on the turn of the river
528
00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:40.240
or whatever, and you get it all into the flop.
529
00:23:40.339 --> 00:23:42.920
You are a four to one favorite to win and
530
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:45.230
you lose. And this happens in poker. How do you
531
00:23:45.329 --> 00:23:48.400
manage that? and deal with the luck when it's not
532
00:23:48.500 --> 00:23:49.180
going your way?
533
00:23:50.599 --> 00:23:53.519
Yeah, I think that's because of the luck factor. I
534
00:23:53.539 --> 00:23:55.500
think this is something they should actually teach in school
535
00:23:55.940 --> 00:23:58.259
because it teaches you a resilience. It teaches you the
536
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:02.259
difference between being a victim to circumstance or standing responsible
537
00:24:02.299 --> 00:24:04.819
for your results, right? So the losers, the failures, the
538
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:07.180
ones that don't make it, all they do is complain
539
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:09.549
and bitch about, oh my God, I had pocket aces.
540
00:24:09.940 --> 00:24:11.369
I went broke. The guy had a nine and a
541
00:24:11.430 --> 00:24:13.109
six and he beat me with this stupid hand. And
542
00:24:13.130 --> 00:24:15.619
I'm like, okay, well, What value is there in you
543
00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:17.740
telling me this story? Like, what do we gain from that?
544
00:24:17.819 --> 00:24:19.369
What do we, how do we improve from there? You
545
00:24:19.380 --> 00:24:20.660
just was like, what am I getting? What did you
546
00:24:20.690 --> 00:24:22.230
just shrug? You're like, well, nothing I can do. I
547
00:24:22.269 --> 00:24:24.490
guess you're just an unlucky person. And I promise you,
548
00:24:24.509 --> 00:24:27.529
if you believe you're unlucky, then you're right. You really are.
549
00:24:27.930 --> 00:24:31.109
What the real pro does is they say, okay, well, okay.
550
00:24:31.130 --> 00:24:34.950
I lost the hand. Was my strategy correct in that spot? Okay, good.
551
00:24:35.210 --> 00:24:35.470
All right.
552
00:24:35.750 --> 00:24:38.170
Long-term that's going to pay off for me. Right. But
553
00:24:38.190 --> 00:24:39.720
what I'll also do is I'll look at, okay, I
554
00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:42.380
busted from the tournament. Oh, I had aces. What happened
555
00:24:42.420 --> 00:24:44.839
before that? How did I get to the chip position
556
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:46.880
where I was short? Was there any other small little
557
00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:49.019
things I can improve upon? Did I miss a bluff?
558
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:51.000
Did I call a guy with a hand that maybe
559
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:53.799
I shouldn't have, right? Focus on the things that you
560
00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:57.160
can actually learn from. I'm a big believer in whenever
561
00:24:57.220 --> 00:25:00.309
you make a big mistake, that's an opportunity. It's a
562
00:25:00.369 --> 00:25:03.809
beautiful opportunity because now you can take a deep dive
563
00:25:03.829 --> 00:25:07.049
and go, what happened here? Let me plug this leak, right?
564
00:25:07.250 --> 00:25:10.470
So the next time I'm in a similar situation, I
565
00:25:10.529 --> 00:25:13.759
now know a better strategy out of it, right? So
566
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:16.460
I look at breakdowns, if you will, as like opportunities
567
00:25:16.509 --> 00:25:18.970
for a breakthrough. Like I kind of, I don't know,
568
00:25:19.069 --> 00:25:21.329
I would say I enjoy making mistakes, but when I
569
00:25:21.769 --> 00:25:23.630
do make one and then have an epiphany about it,
570
00:25:23.650 --> 00:25:25.410
I'm like, oh baby, I just got better as a
571
00:25:25.430 --> 00:25:25.910
poker player.
572
00:25:27.259 --> 00:25:29.700
I think your outlook is rare. Maybe it's just because it's,
573
00:25:30.630 --> 00:25:33.059
makes you feel better by saying, I just got unlucky.
574
00:25:33.099 --> 00:25:35.500
If luck wasn't involved, I would win every time, right?
575
00:25:35.559 --> 00:25:37.779
The famous line from Phil. Why is it so hard
576
00:25:37.819 --> 00:25:40.180
to have that outlook? Because you're surrounded by poker players
577
00:25:40.220 --> 00:25:42.509
who love telling you bad beat stories because they're actually
578
00:25:42.569 --> 00:25:44.730
really good. They just got unlucky. But this seems to
579
00:25:44.769 --> 00:25:48.109
be a common outlook, probably not only in poker, but
580
00:25:48.150 --> 00:25:49.230
just in life in general.
581
00:25:49.970 --> 00:25:53.019
It is really. Most people, and everyone is at different
582
00:25:53.059 --> 00:25:55.039
points of their life, most people are just sort of
583
00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:57.759
like it's easier to be a victim of circumstance, right?
584
00:25:58.019 --> 00:26:00.180
Because then you have no personal responsibility. You can just
585
00:26:00.220 --> 00:26:02.680
shrug and be like, well, woe is me. Nothing I
586
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:05.500
can do versus the person who stands responsible and says, well,
587
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:07.579
here's what I'm going to do about it. Now, the
588
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:09.599
thing with poker, right? Like you said, I put my
589
00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:10.940
money in as a four to one favorite.
590
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:11.140
Okay.
591
00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:14.960
And I lost. Well, guess what? Math alone says that's
592
00:26:14.980 --> 00:26:16.480
going to happen 20% of the time.
593
00:26:16.509 --> 00:26:17.029
Yeah.
594
00:26:17.529 --> 00:26:19.309
So one out of five times you're going to lose.
595
00:26:19.390 --> 00:26:19.650
Okay.
596
00:26:19.890 --> 00:26:22.759
The problem with the human mind is we have such
597
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:25.240
a deep connection to the failure and the loss that
598
00:26:25.259 --> 00:26:28.450
we remember those things vividly. So you'll think in your mind,
599
00:26:28.509 --> 00:26:30.410
oh my God, I always lose as a four to
600
00:26:30.450 --> 00:26:32.910
one favorite. You forget about the other times where you
601
00:26:32.950 --> 00:26:34.730
held as a four to one favorite. And in the
602
00:26:34.769 --> 00:26:37.470
long run, you'll see that you win about 80% of
603
00:26:37.490 --> 00:26:40.210
the time, but the losses are so much more painful,
604
00:26:40.539 --> 00:26:42.920
which is why I think, especially for the younger generation,
605
00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:46.339
like really learning that resilience, learning failure, because I think
606
00:26:46.380 --> 00:26:48.650
now more than anything, if you've read any of Jonathan
607
00:26:48.670 --> 00:26:51.930
Haidt's books, Coddling of the American Mind, The Anxious Generation,
608
00:26:51.970 --> 00:26:53.769
which I just finished. A lot of our kids are
609
00:26:53.829 --> 00:26:57.859
not being allowed to fail, but that failure builds a muscle, right?
610
00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:00.640
When you fail at something, you learn how to deal
611
00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:03.680
with it. And if we coddle our children, we coddle
612
00:27:03.700 --> 00:27:07.079
the next generation from never having that experience. then we
613
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:09.380
don't set them up to be at their best. Failure
614
00:27:09.400 --> 00:27:10.400
is required.
615
00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:11.740
One of the things about you that I admire is
616
00:27:11.779 --> 00:27:14.099
that you're not afraid to speak up if you think
617
00:27:14.140 --> 00:27:18.009
there's injustice or there's something wrong and potentially alienate your fans.
618
00:27:18.049 --> 00:27:21.289
A lot of people that become well-known in their sport
619
00:27:21.329 --> 00:27:24.029
or whatever they do, they're like, I'm going to toe
620
00:27:24.069 --> 00:27:26.230
the line here a little bit. Whether it's on Twitter
621
00:27:26.650 --> 00:27:28.910
or it's a part of your blog or just speaking
622
00:27:29.009 --> 00:27:32.890
on TV or a podcast, if you think it, you
623
00:27:32.930 --> 00:27:33.910
say it.
624
00:27:34.589 --> 00:27:35.230
I would love to.
625
00:27:35.210 --> 00:27:39.059
Learn more about how you've gained the courage or where
626
00:27:39.099 --> 00:27:41.529
this comes from to have the courage to speak your
627
00:27:41.569 --> 00:27:44.910
mind on pretty much any and all topics, even if
628
00:27:44.950 --> 00:27:46.359
you know you're going to get some hate from it.
629
00:27:46.690 --> 00:27:49.049
Yeah. One of my favorite quotes is in order to
630
00:27:49.130 --> 00:27:53.640
avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing and be nothing. And
631
00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:55.279
that's really not the way that I live my life.
632
00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:56.799
I think part of it, I always had a big
633
00:27:56.839 --> 00:27:58.200
mouth as a kid. I was a short kid. I
634
00:27:58.220 --> 00:28:00.640
was really tiny. My brother in the sixth grade was
635
00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:03.059
six foot. So I'm in the first grade, he's in sixth.
636
00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:04.680
These kids in the third grade would pick on me.
637
00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:08.039
My brother would grab them both by their collars, throw
638
00:28:08.059 --> 00:28:10.700
them against the wall. So I had big bro backing
639
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:15.680
me up or whatever. But frankly, I'm not afraid of controversy. Like, sure,
640
00:28:15.700 --> 00:28:18.380
I remember a famous quote many years ago, Michael Jordan
641
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:21.680
said something like, Republicans buy shoes too, or something along
642
00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:24.119
those lines. And I'm like, listen, I'll tell you what,
643
00:28:25.019 --> 00:28:27.859
based on my positions or views, if you disagree with me,
644
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:30.779
that's totally fine. I'm more than willing to have that conversation.
645
00:28:31.170 --> 00:28:33.170
If you dislike me or hate me because I have
646
00:28:33.190 --> 00:28:35.170
a view that's different than you, that's more about you
647
00:28:35.210 --> 00:28:38.569
than it is me. And frankly, the people that typically
648
00:28:38.609 --> 00:28:41.589
like the ones that don't like me, I can't think
649
00:28:41.630 --> 00:28:44.089
of a single one that I look at and go, man,
650
00:28:44.650 --> 00:28:46.869
I wish I could be friends with that guy, right?
651
00:28:47.170 --> 00:28:49.210
We just see the world through a very different lens.
652
00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:52.680
And I'd say probably in the last six or seven years,
653
00:28:52.740 --> 00:28:55.720
I would say, or even less maybe, I've learned more,
654
00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:58.740
probably most five since COVID really, learned to realize that
655
00:28:59.410 --> 00:29:03.029
Just because people have different views than you doesn't mean
656
00:29:03.049 --> 00:29:05.750
they're evil, doesn't mean they're bad. You know, it's not
657
00:29:05.789 --> 00:29:09.069
a tale of two tribes. You're this side, you're that side.
658
00:29:09.309 --> 00:29:11.500
They've just had very different life experiences that led them
659
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:14.240
to a place that's different. So I can have conversations
660
00:29:14.259 --> 00:29:17.859
with people where I disagree vehemently with certain positions or
661
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:20.640
things they believe, but that's okay. It used to be
662
00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:22.359
like that, right? I mean, back in the old days,
663
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:24.480
didn't people used to say like, I don't know, don't
664
00:29:24.500 --> 00:29:26.420
talk about religion and politics at the dinner table and
665
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:29.450
everybody will get along just fine. Obviously with social media now,
666
00:29:29.490 --> 00:29:32.160
people just talk about whatever they talk about and I'm
667
00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:34.319
one of them. But again, like I said, I don't
668
00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:37.569
hate people. And I think that was, I could see
669
00:29:37.589 --> 00:29:39.329
that sort of happening to me with social media as well.
670
00:29:39.789 --> 00:29:42.470
where you get pushed into a tribe, if you will.
671
00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:45.259
And I'm tribe-less now. Like I don't adhere to a tribe.
672
00:29:45.490 --> 00:29:47.559
Both tribes don't like me, basically.
673
00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:50.420
I think there's more and more in that camp because
674
00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:53.079
it just shows kind of independent thinking. Tim Ryan's on
675
00:29:53.099 --> 00:29:55.299
this podcast said the exhausted majority. I think it's in
676
00:29:55.319 --> 00:29:58.700
the middle is where it's because we I can't subscribe
677
00:29:58.740 --> 00:30:01.119
just because you say you're here or here. It's like
678
00:30:01.180 --> 00:30:04.920
if you're independently thinking, you're obviously not going to fall
679
00:30:04.980 --> 00:30:06.039
in line with just one or the other.
680
00:30:06.059 --> 00:30:08.880
I'm a big believer in this. There's no way. It's
681
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:11.559
actually impossible that you're doing any critical thinking of your
682
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:15.720
own if you agree 100% with either extreme. If you do,
683
00:30:15.769 --> 00:30:18.009
then you're not doing the thinking. You're being told what
684
00:30:18.029 --> 00:30:19.670
to think. And, you know, when I go on X
685
00:30:19.710 --> 00:30:22.049
or whatever, I mean, the extreme progressives on the left
686
00:30:22.130 --> 00:30:24.509
and the right wing party. The right wing guys will
687
00:30:24.529 --> 00:30:26.369
call me a libtard. The left ones call me a
688
00:30:26.410 --> 00:30:29.650
right wing fascist. I'm like, OK. So then it tells
689
00:30:29.690 --> 00:30:31.170
me something. It tells me I'm in the right place.
690
00:30:31.470 --> 00:30:34.099
I look at issues independently. For me, I'd say the
691
00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:36.619
eye opener, the big eye opener was that whole COVID
692
00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:40.839
lab leak theory that happened. You remember? So Republicans said
693
00:30:40.859 --> 00:30:43.420
it came from the Wuhan lab. Democrats said, no, it
694
00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:44.920
came from a wet market. And if you think it
695
00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:47.980
came from a lab, you're racist. I'm like, how about guys?
696
00:30:48.019 --> 00:30:50.170
How about this? How about we have no idea? OK,
697
00:30:50.180 --> 00:30:53.599
how about either is plausible? Right. Why do we have
698
00:30:53.619 --> 00:30:56.059
to decide what we think about this issue based on
699
00:30:56.099 --> 00:30:58.319
supposedly who you vote for? It makes no sense. And
700
00:30:58.339 --> 00:31:00.240
it really didn't happen in a lot of places in
701
00:31:00.259 --> 00:31:02.380
the world, but it did in America because we're so divided.
702
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:03.640
So that was kind of an eye opener for me
703
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:06.079
because like I'm like, oh, yeah, seems plausible. There's a
704
00:31:06.099 --> 00:31:10.259
coronavirus lab in Wuhan, the only one in China. And
705
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:12.980
there happened to be a coronavirus spread from there. Could
706
00:31:13.019 --> 00:31:15.200
be the lab. I'm not saying I know, but I'm like,
707
00:31:15.380 --> 00:31:17.279
I'm not dispelling it. I don't think that if you
708
00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:19.700
think that, you know, that means you're racist. I think
709
00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:21.640
that's really silly. And I think that's what's happened to
710
00:31:21.660 --> 00:31:24.500
both extremes is they both gone a little cuckoo. Yeah.
711
00:31:24.980 --> 00:31:26.960
One of the other elements about you that I think
712
00:31:27.019 --> 00:31:29.200
is pretty cool is that you're willing to take on
713
00:31:29.299 --> 00:31:33.000
challenges and maybe even play against somebody where it's their specialty,
714
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:35.160
but not yours. Thinking of Doug Polk and playing a
715
00:31:35.380 --> 00:31:37.880
heads up, which you're obviously really good at it, but
716
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:40.109
it's not, you're not like a specialist. Like there are
717
00:31:40.140 --> 00:31:42.619
those that exist in the world. And I think you
718
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:45.160
lost like a million bucks or so and then got
719
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:47.440
some of that back and won a title. What's your
720
00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:51.240
mindset towards accepting a challenge like that, knowing that the
721
00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:53.440
person you're going to play against is a specialist in
722
00:31:53.509 --> 00:31:57.329
that particular game and you're good, but you're not a
723
00:31:57.410 --> 00:31:58.230
specialist at it?
724
00:31:58.730 --> 00:32:01.170
Well, it was even more of an uphill climb than
725
00:32:01.190 --> 00:32:03.829
you described because not only was it heads up, right,
726
00:32:03.990 --> 00:32:06.579
which is especially, but it was online. Yeah. Right. I
727
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:08.339
don't even get to see him. Like if it was live,
728
00:32:08.380 --> 00:32:09.609
like we did play live a little bit.
729
00:32:09.619 --> 00:32:11.240
You did play live. Didn't you win when it was live?
730
00:32:11.480 --> 00:32:13.059
I won when it was live. We played a heads
731
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:15.779
up match for another like high stakes feud. I won
732
00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:17.740
that as well. Like live is a different animal, right?
733
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:20.200
Because there's more information available to me. But again, I
734
00:32:20.220 --> 00:32:23.579
was stepping into arena that I knew I was the underdog,
735
00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:27.549
but I relished those opportunities because again, what it did
736
00:32:27.619 --> 00:32:29.710
for me, but again, I'm in a position in life
737
00:32:29.730 --> 00:32:32.059
where I can afford the wins and losses. It improved
738
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:34.779
my poker game overall. Like I got better, even though
739
00:32:34.819 --> 00:32:36.579
I was the underdog. I feel like, especially as the
740
00:32:36.619 --> 00:32:38.380
match started to wear on, I started to really close
741
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:41.069
the gap and have a real chance, but that's part
742
00:32:41.109 --> 00:32:43.730
of the investment really. That was like, that's like study
743
00:32:43.750 --> 00:32:45.410
that's that's homework that's working out.
744
00:32:45.829 --> 00:32:47.630
So going into it, was that part?
745
00:32:47.690 --> 00:32:49.650
Cause I've heard people say, you know, when I sign
746
00:32:49.690 --> 00:32:53.690
up for projects, even if it fails, it's a victory
747
00:32:53.910 --> 00:32:56.450
if there was like a big learning opportunity. So like
748
00:32:56.650 --> 00:32:59.130
that's part of the decision-making process of whatever I'm going
749
00:32:59.150 --> 00:33:00.769
to do or whatever I'm going to sign up or whatever.
750
00:33:01.170 --> 00:33:03.880
person or a project I'm going to partner on is
751
00:33:04.059 --> 00:33:06.799
even if it doesn't work or doesn't go well, I'm
752
00:33:06.859 --> 00:33:08.299
still going to have learned a lot. So was that
753
00:33:08.339 --> 00:33:11.779
part of your mindset going into that particular game against him?
754
00:33:12.420 --> 00:33:14.319
Yeah, no question about it. I mean, the days looked
755
00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:17.180
like this. We would play for about four hours and
756
00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:19.940
then immediately after play, I'd walk my dogs. I'd get
757
00:33:19.980 --> 00:33:21.640
in there in the lab, if you will, with my
758
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:23.700
guys that we started using the solvers and we would
759
00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:26.900
go over the entire session for about eight to 10 hours.
760
00:33:27.140 --> 00:33:29.890
So I played four hours, but studied about eight to 10.
761
00:33:29.890 --> 00:33:32.160
and was doing that as a regular pattern, right? And
762
00:33:32.180 --> 00:33:34.519
that study sticks with you forever and you improve as
763
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:37.019
you go. But yeah, no question about it. Part of
764
00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:38.759
the process was I was like, okay, I need to
765
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:41.740
get better. Like I, frankly, to take on the challenge
766
00:33:42.200 --> 00:33:43.960
in the right way, it would have required me to
767
00:33:44.119 --> 00:33:47.809
spend three to five years studying this stuff. I had
768
00:33:47.849 --> 00:33:52.470
about six weeks. So we did the best we could
769
00:33:52.509 --> 00:33:54.529
with what, with the time we had. And as I said,
770
00:33:54.549 --> 00:33:57.250
like after halfway through the challenge or whatever, it started
771
00:33:57.269 --> 00:33:59.089
to feel like I was really improving.
772
00:33:59.740 --> 00:34:03.329
The other thing you've done really well is document the journey,
773
00:34:03.809 --> 00:34:06.789
whether it's writing in a blog, which I remember reading
774
00:34:06.869 --> 00:34:10.409
lots of those, as well as YouTube vlogging. So doing
775
00:34:10.449 --> 00:34:12.880
a bit of both of those things where you've kind
776
00:34:12.909 --> 00:34:15.260
of shown everybody this is What's.
777
00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:18.000
Going on in my life? The highs, the lows, the wins,
778
00:34:18.059 --> 00:34:18.679
the losses.
779
00:34:18.739 --> 00:34:21.380
Like Pete, your fans have gotten to see like the
780
00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:25.710
authentic stories in real time. Not like going back and like,
781
00:34:25.750 --> 00:34:27.469
oh yeah, I remember that year when I won it all.
782
00:34:27.710 --> 00:34:29.369
You just talk about the highlights with a little bit
783
00:34:29.409 --> 00:34:31.050
of tension in the middle and then I'm the champ.
784
00:34:31.329 --> 00:34:35.170
But in real time, what's your mindset around both documenting
785
00:34:35.610 --> 00:34:39.139
the journey, writing it as well as vlogging it on
786
00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:40.639
video like you do during the World Series?
787
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:44.420
Yeah, well, since nobody really reads anymore, vlogs have sort
788
00:34:44.460 --> 00:34:46.380
of taken center stage. And, you know, you mentioned something
789
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:48.860
too about the highs and the lows. My wife is
790
00:34:48.920 --> 00:34:51.579
super authentic. She likes authentic people. I'm the same way.
791
00:34:52.059 --> 00:34:54.030
So the thing is, is when you see me in
792
00:34:54.050 --> 00:34:55.989
a bad moment where I'm acting like a jerk or
793
00:34:56.010 --> 00:34:59.809
an asshole, I filmed it. I can delete it. I
794
00:34:59.849 --> 00:35:02.010
don't have to show anybody, but I choose to leave
795
00:35:02.030 --> 00:35:04.670
it in there because I want people to see the authenticity.
796
00:35:04.710 --> 00:35:06.750
I want people to realize that like, oh, he gets
797
00:35:06.809 --> 00:35:09.559
mad too, just like me. Oh, he sometimes acts like
798
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:11.449
a jerk too. I know when you do that and
799
00:35:11.469 --> 00:35:13.409
you put, at least sometimes I know, I'm like, oh boy,
800
00:35:13.429 --> 00:35:15.070
I'm going to get a lot of shit for this one.
801
00:35:15.389 --> 00:35:17.110
But I leave it in there because I want people
802
00:35:17.150 --> 00:35:19.139
to see the authenticity. I don't want, like I broke
803
00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:21.500
a selfie stick one time. I was pissed off. I
804
00:35:21.539 --> 00:35:23.139
took my selfie stick and I threw it in the corner.
805
00:35:23.300 --> 00:35:24.840
I could have deleted all that, but I wanted it
806
00:35:24.900 --> 00:35:27.559
in there because I wanted to see people. I wanted
807
00:35:27.579 --> 00:35:29.780
people to relate because everyone who plays poker, they go
808
00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:32.449
through those moments where they just want to smash everything, right?
809
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:35.989
Obviously that's not good behavior. I laugh at myself when
810
00:35:36.030 --> 00:35:39.239
I do stupid things like that. But, uh, Again, I'm
811
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:42.429
a big believer in just authentically covering the journey. And
812
00:35:42.449 --> 00:35:45.110
I think that's part of why people make it a
813
00:35:45.150 --> 00:35:47.389
point in TV, if you will. They watch it every
814
00:35:47.429 --> 00:35:48.710
morning during the World Series.
815
00:35:49.969 --> 00:35:52.630
That's part of your brand building. How much do you
816
00:35:52.730 --> 00:35:57.190
think about building the Daniel Negreanu brand, the kid poker brand,
817
00:35:57.969 --> 00:35:59.909
as you're building your career?
818
00:36:01.309 --> 00:36:04.090
Well, I would say this. The brand's built. I spent
819
00:36:04.110 --> 00:36:06.380
a lot of time in my 20s and 30s. Well,
820
00:36:06.449 --> 00:36:08.849
mostly my 20s and 30s. sort of doing that, you know,
821
00:36:08.869 --> 00:36:10.809
building a brand. Now I am who I am. But like,
822
00:36:11.570 --> 00:36:12.510
I look at it this way too.
823
00:36:12.570 --> 00:36:14.150
I think, I don't know how old you are, but
824
00:36:14.170 --> 00:36:15.650
how old are you?
825
00:36:15.650 --> 00:36:16.250
42.
826
00:36:16.250 --> 00:36:18.650
Okay. So you're there. So I'm a believer, like at
827
00:36:18.670 --> 00:36:20.429
least this was true for me. In your 20s, you
828
00:36:20.469 --> 00:36:22.389
might not, you care what people think about you. It's
829
00:36:22.409 --> 00:36:25.619
just a fact, right? In your 30s, maybe you don't
830
00:36:25.639 --> 00:36:27.460
think you care as much, but you still kind of care.
831
00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:31.599
For me, as I've gone into my 40s, I really
832
00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:34.139
don't give a shit anymore. I'm like, this is me.
833
00:36:34.420 --> 00:36:35.860
Take it or leave it. You know what I mean?
834
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:38.360
And the friends that I have know who I am.
835
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:41.059
They know my heart. They know my integrity and those
836
00:36:41.099 --> 00:36:42.739
types of things. And those that don't know me, I
837
00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:45.300
can laugh at it. I don't look at comments on
838
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:48.710
social media and feel bad about myself. Sometimes people like
839
00:36:48.750 --> 00:36:51.050
say some really mean things. And I think they're really
840
00:36:51.130 --> 00:36:55.530
funny because like, oh boy, that's rude. He called me bald, this, that.
841
00:36:55.590 --> 00:36:57.610
I was like, he went through the whole spectrum. I
842
00:36:57.650 --> 00:37:00.389
can laugh at it because I think now I've matured.
843
00:37:01.059 --> 00:37:04.380
And I understand that that's not the real world anyway,
844
00:37:04.519 --> 00:37:06.500
because when I'm out in public and I'm out and around,
845
00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:09.139
I'm especially in poker tournaments, I'm taking pictures with people.
846
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:12.769
I'm signing autographs. Like the love is there, right? The
847
00:37:12.789 --> 00:37:15.610
thing is, is that it's human nature to focus on.
848
00:37:15.650 --> 00:37:17.610
Let's say you go, let's say you were a singer, right?
849
00:37:17.769 --> 00:37:21.090
You sang for people. 99 people just couldn't believe it.
850
00:37:21.090 --> 00:37:23.570
You were amazing. One guy goes, didn't love it. What
851
00:37:23.610 --> 00:37:24.570
does the human brain do?
852
00:37:25.010 --> 00:37:25.989
They go, focus on that guy.
853
00:37:26.230 --> 00:37:28.949
I wonder what you didn't like. What dude? the feedback
854
00:37:28.969 --> 00:37:31.750
was 99% positive. You had one dude who didn't like
855
00:37:31.809 --> 00:37:33.820
it and you're focused on that, but that's what the
856
00:37:33.880 --> 00:37:36.260
human brain does. And that's something I've sort of broke
857
00:37:36.300 --> 00:37:36.800
free from.
858
00:37:37.619 --> 00:37:41.099
Is that, I'm curious though, cause you share as if
859
00:37:41.139 --> 00:37:43.619
that's a, like a life repetition thing, meaning like as
860
00:37:43.659 --> 00:37:45.780
you age, you'll get better at that. And like, I
861
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:48.500
love the later years of Kobe Bryant's career. Cause like,
862
00:37:48.539 --> 00:37:51.000
that's where he was. Like he just said it. And
863
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:53.840
I think we all love them in, in, in because
864
00:37:53.900 --> 00:37:56.539
we know like, this is just what he thinks. But yeah,
865
00:37:57.139 --> 00:37:59.559
Is it an age thing or is it a kind
866
00:37:59.579 --> 00:38:03.719
of like a dominance thing that you've dominated your sport,
867
00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:07.260
your game for so long that you're just like, I'm
868
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:09.480
kind of the man. And so I'm just going to
869
00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:11.619
do what I do because what I'm trying to get
870
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:14.619
out of this, Daniel, is how can other people, even
871
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:19.269
in their forties or fifties, get this beyond just like, okay,
872
00:38:19.309 --> 00:38:19.829
I'm older now.
873
00:38:19.889 --> 00:38:21.309
I should feel this way when I don't know if
874
00:38:21.369 --> 00:38:22.010
everybody does.
875
00:38:23.150 --> 00:38:25.590
Yeah, no, you're right. Listen, some people never learn the
876
00:38:25.650 --> 00:38:28.639
life lessons. You know, they're 45 and they're still acting
877
00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:30.840
like they're 17 or 20. You know, they just haven't
878
00:38:30.860 --> 00:38:33.400
developed at that level. I don't think there's a magic pill,
879
00:38:33.619 --> 00:38:35.559
but I do think you're also right. It's a combination
880
00:38:35.579 --> 00:38:38.000
of that with succeeding. You know, I made it right.
881
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:39.869
I got the beautiful wife that I wanted. I have
882
00:38:39.889 --> 00:38:42.510
a beautiful home. I'm financially set. So I've made it.
883
00:38:42.510 --> 00:38:45.070
I have nothing to lose. Like you're not there's no.
884
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:48.940
There's no fear from internal fear about being who I
885
00:38:49.059 --> 00:38:50.840
am or anything like that. And I don't really worry
886
00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:53.619
so much about public opinion in that regard. Like I, again,
887
00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:56.380
like I said, I think the authenticity is lacking, especially
888
00:38:56.400 --> 00:39:01.480
with Instagram world where everyone takes airbrushed, filtered photos of themselves.
889
00:39:01.539 --> 00:39:04.380
It's not real. To show only the best sides of themselves.
890
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:06.699
And I've, throughout my career, I think for the most part,
891
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:09.579
I've been well received. People like watching me play and
892
00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:12.400
the numbers reflect that. But the studio, when I'm on
893
00:39:12.440 --> 00:39:14.840
a stream, they get seven times the viewers that they
894
00:39:14.860 --> 00:39:17.829
would normally. Right? So I'm doing something right. And I
895
00:39:17.849 --> 00:39:20.280
think part of it is just being authentic and like, again,
896
00:39:20.579 --> 00:39:22.519
not worrying about the one guy who didn't like my
897
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:25.659
singing and just focusing on the 99.
898
00:39:25.659 --> 00:39:28.449
I've read that you've said you're a self-proclaimed introvert, but
899
00:39:28.489 --> 00:39:30.900
if we watch you at the table, part of the
900
00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:33.059
reason why the streams are seven times as much and
901
00:39:33.099 --> 00:39:34.659
why ESPN is always going to have you on and
902
00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:37.039
high stakes poker probably always wants you on is because
903
00:39:37.059 --> 00:39:39.940
you're really fun to watch, mainly because of how talkative
904
00:39:39.980 --> 00:39:42.500
you are, how much you're willing to get others talking.
905
00:39:42.539 --> 00:39:45.340
Like the table's going to be more jovial if Daniel
906
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:48.119
Granu is there. And I think That's a big deal.
907
00:39:48.260 --> 00:39:52.719
So how does this self-described introvert almost transform himself into
908
00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:58.090
this really talkative, joyous extrovert once you're at the table?
909
00:39:59.090 --> 00:40:02.369
Okay. So I'm, what's known as a talkative introvert. Okay.
910
00:40:02.550 --> 00:40:04.250
Now introvert, I think a lot of people mean like
911
00:40:04.289 --> 00:40:07.349
that means that you're socially awkward and socially afraid and whatever.
912
00:40:07.369 --> 00:40:09.670
And that's not, that's not really the accurate definition. The
913
00:40:09.989 --> 00:40:13.269
question is where do you charge your batteries? Right. Some
914
00:40:13.309 --> 00:40:15.590
people charge their batteries when they're out with people at
915
00:40:15.630 --> 00:40:17.710
a club, all that kind of stuff. For me, when
916
00:40:17.750 --> 00:40:22.090
I'm out and I'm exhausted by it, it drains me
917
00:40:22.139 --> 00:40:26.260
beyond belief. I charge my batteries when I'm alone at home,
918
00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:30.260
relaxing with my puppies. That's how I recharge. That's why, frankly,
919
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:33.820
for over a decade, when during poker tournaments, a bunch
920
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:35.800
of people usually go to dinner and they talk and
921
00:40:35.820 --> 00:40:38.400
they do this kind of stuff. On dinner breaks, I'm
922
00:40:38.460 --> 00:40:42.179
alone in my room. Not talking to anybody because I
923
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:44.780
need that recharge for the next four to six hours
924
00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:47.659
of the tournament. Because I'm so talkative, that's probably why
925
00:40:47.699 --> 00:40:49.579
I expend so much energy. I think there's sort of
926
00:40:49.619 --> 00:40:52.860
a misnomer about the idea that introvert means socially awkward.
927
00:40:53.099 --> 00:40:54.989
And that's not obviously the case. It's a question of
928
00:40:55.570 --> 00:40:58.429
where do I need my alone time to recharge?
929
00:40:58.809 --> 00:41:00.809
But the talking is also a strategy, right?
930
00:41:00.909 --> 00:41:03.949
I have to believe strategy to win and strategy to
931
00:41:03.969 --> 00:41:05.789
be entertaining, especially when it's on TV.
932
00:41:06.869 --> 00:41:10.219
Honestly, the fact is it's me being me, right? But
933
00:41:10.300 --> 00:41:14.019
as a byproduct of that, strategically, it does benefit me
934
00:41:14.059 --> 00:41:16.519
in so many ways. Loosening up the table, having people
935
00:41:16.539 --> 00:41:19.929
more relaxed, getting more information about my opponents, all these
936
00:41:19.989 --> 00:41:22.670
types of things. On a TV table, under a stream,
937
00:41:23.050 --> 00:41:26.530
me being this way is essentially a dominant presence because
938
00:41:26.590 --> 00:41:29.650
I'm like, look how comfortable I am. You're not. You're
939
00:41:29.690 --> 00:41:31.789
afraid because you're under the TV lights, the people are
940
00:41:31.809 --> 00:41:34.849
seeing your cards, it's uncomfortable for you. I'm totally comfortable.
941
00:41:34.889 --> 00:41:36.889
How about that, right? So I think in that regard,
942
00:41:36.909 --> 00:41:39.579
it benefits me as well. But really, nothing about it
943
00:41:39.659 --> 00:41:42.079
is fake. It's just, you know, I see somebody new
944
00:41:42.099 --> 00:41:43.780
at the table, guess who the hell they are? So
945
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:44.800
I ask questions, you know?
946
00:41:45.340 --> 00:41:47.519
Were you like that in the early days or did
947
00:41:47.539 --> 00:41:49.280
it take you a while to get comfortable under the
948
00:41:49.340 --> 00:41:51.389
bright lights, people seeing your cards, stuff like that?
949
00:41:52.150 --> 00:41:53.989
I think I was always comfortable. I think when I
950
00:41:54.010 --> 00:41:56.289
was a child, like even from five, six years old,
951
00:41:56.329 --> 00:41:57.769
I thought I was going to be an actor. So
952
00:41:57.789 --> 00:42:00.489
I was very comfortable on camera. That would never fazed me.
953
00:42:00.530 --> 00:42:02.409
It didn't make me crumb. Like I was very comfortable.
954
00:42:02.469 --> 00:42:05.130
So I think when poker started to become televised, it
955
00:42:05.150 --> 00:42:07.269
was a natural fit for me because I already like
956
00:42:07.409 --> 00:42:09.329
got that. And I get it too. Like there are
957
00:42:09.349 --> 00:42:11.780
probably some times where you have an opportunity to ham
958
00:42:11.820 --> 00:42:14.010
it up with people and make some funny moments. Like
959
00:42:14.030 --> 00:42:16.280
I'll try to do that because listen, sometimes when I'm
960
00:42:16.300 --> 00:42:18.039
playing poker, I just don't want to be bothered. I
961
00:42:18.059 --> 00:42:19.900
just want to be left alone. When you're on TV,
962
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:22.360
you've kind of expected to sort of, you know, make
963
00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:25.079
it a little more engaging. I don't always, but it
964
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:28.139
really depends on the dynamic of the table. Like Recently,
965
00:42:28.179 --> 00:42:30.739
I played a couple of final tables on PokerGo Studio.
966
00:42:31.239 --> 00:42:33.539
One was a group of six people. We were all chatty.
967
00:42:33.559 --> 00:42:35.519
It was fun. It was jovial, good group of people.
968
00:42:35.780 --> 00:42:37.719
The next one I played was two guys I don't
969
00:42:37.739 --> 00:42:40.679
really talk to. Another guy didn't speak English. So I know,
970
00:42:40.699 --> 00:42:42.699
who am I going to engage with here? So I
971
00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:44.219
just shut up and played.
972
00:42:45.219 --> 00:42:47.119
What did you think of the movie Rounders?
973
00:42:48.039 --> 00:42:51.260
Loved Rounders. I mean, anytime Rounders is randomly on, listen,
974
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:53.809
I have access to every movie anytime I want it.
975
00:42:54.019 --> 00:42:56.559
But when it's on TV... I pop it on. The
976
00:42:56.599 --> 00:42:59.079
quotes are deep in my memory. It was really the
977
00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:01.599
best poker film ever made by far. It really did
978
00:43:01.659 --> 00:43:04.800
spawn late in 1998. I remember Ed Norton and Matt
979
00:43:04.820 --> 00:43:06.789
Damon came to the World Series of Poker. I was
980
00:43:06.809 --> 00:43:09.650
there that year to play. And Matt Damon played. He
981
00:43:09.690 --> 00:43:13.130
went broke to Doyle Brunson with Pocket Kings against Pocket Aces.
982
00:43:13.190 --> 00:43:15.250
So pretty cool moment for him. But yeah, I remember
983
00:43:15.309 --> 00:43:17.329
them being out there. It's funny because the movie didn't
984
00:43:17.369 --> 00:43:20.449
do great when it came out, but it became a
985
00:43:20.489 --> 00:43:23.809
cult hit years and years later where like anyone who
986
00:43:23.849 --> 00:43:25.219
plays poker should know Ralph.
987
00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:29.500
I watched it over and over in college during lunch
988
00:43:29.579 --> 00:43:32.519
breaks and stuff. I just loved it. I got to
989
00:43:32.539 --> 00:43:34.920
fly out to New York to interview Brian Koppelman, and
990
00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:38.610
that was one of the coolest experiences for me. I
991
00:43:38.650 --> 00:43:40.809
love Billions, too, and some of the other stuff Koppelman's done,
992
00:43:40.829 --> 00:43:44.090
but I was like, man, Rounders was just the movie.
993
00:43:44.269 --> 00:43:48.070
I think it probably made you very rich in addition
994
00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:50.820
because it got so many more people into the game
995
00:43:50.860 --> 00:43:53.099
that could not hang with guys like you.
996
00:43:53.869 --> 00:43:55.909
Oh yeah, it pumps me up. The music. There's a
997
00:43:56.030 --> 00:43:58.670
scene where Matt Damon's girlfriend leaves him. I hated him.
998
00:43:58.949 --> 00:44:00.690
She's such a great actress because I feel like if
999
00:44:00.750 --> 00:44:03.389
I met her, I'm like, I hate you. I don't
1000
00:44:03.409 --> 00:44:05.190
even know you, but I hate you. There's a moment
1001
00:44:05.210 --> 00:44:07.690
where she left him and he's sitting there with Edward
1002
00:44:07.730 --> 00:44:11.010
Norton Worm and they're talking about going to the Taj. Like,
1003
00:44:11.050 --> 00:44:13.510
let's play some fucking cards. You know, and they get going.
1004
00:44:13.550 --> 00:44:16.079
It's like, oh my God, that's just, that gets you
1005
00:44:16.099 --> 00:44:17.760
pumped up. That's a good idea, by the way. World
1006
00:44:17.780 --> 00:44:19.860
Series coming up. I'm going to pop rounders in before
1007
00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:20.239
it starts.
1008
00:44:20.699 --> 00:44:22.880
I know Rocky's big for you, right? So you already
1009
00:44:22.900 --> 00:44:25.900
mentioned Rocky III, but I know Rocky IV, and I've
1010
00:44:25.940 --> 00:44:27.940
seen you get pumped with Rocky. What is it about
1011
00:44:27.980 --> 00:44:30.539
that that gets you going, especially for the World Series
1012
00:44:30.579 --> 00:44:30.920
of Poker?
1013
00:44:31.380 --> 00:44:33.780
Yeah. I'll tell you what, I think Sylvester Stallone's, like,
1014
00:44:34.340 --> 00:44:37.050
in so many ways, like, obviously, in so many ways,
1015
00:44:37.090 --> 00:44:39.469
he's a genius, really, in the ways in which he
1016
00:44:39.510 --> 00:44:42.230
makes these films. And, like, there's literally life lessons in
1017
00:44:42.269 --> 00:44:44.090
each and every one that is unique and different. The
1018
00:44:44.150 --> 00:44:46.449
ones that I take from poker, right? Well, we'll start
1019
00:44:46.469 --> 00:44:50.239
with III. Rocky III, don't become complacent. Rocky IV... It's
1020
00:44:50.280 --> 00:44:53.699
about heart versus machine. So the analogy for me is, listen,
1021
00:44:53.719 --> 00:44:55.340
I got the heart. I got the wisdom. I've been
1022
00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:58.019
there before. I can take the kids, the kicks. These
1023
00:44:58.059 --> 00:45:01.960
kids are using computers, steroids, whatever, like Drago. But you
1024
00:45:01.980 --> 00:45:04.440
know what? With heart and determination, you can figure it
1025
00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:06.719
out and you can beat them. And then later, you know,
1026
00:45:06.820 --> 00:45:09.880
one of my favorite quotes is from Rocky Balboa. It's
1027
00:45:09.909 --> 00:45:12.000
not how hard you hit. It's how hard you can
1028
00:45:12.059 --> 00:45:15.260
get hit and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done.
1029
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:18.079
He's got these little nuggets in there that are really fun.
1030
00:45:18.099 --> 00:45:20.199
Now the thing about, because the World Series, I always
1031
00:45:20.239 --> 00:45:22.780
watch all the Rocky movies and they've sort of extended
1032
00:45:22.840 --> 00:45:25.210
now to like the creeds as well. So it's a
1033
00:45:25.250 --> 00:45:28.630
lot of movies. They're not quite the same, especially the
1034
00:45:28.690 --> 00:45:31.590
last one without Rocky. That was sad to not see
1035
00:45:31.650 --> 00:45:33.489
Rocky in a Rocky themed movie.
1036
00:45:34.409 --> 00:45:35.719
You've done a little bit of acting. You've been in
1037
00:45:35.739 --> 00:45:37.340
some movies and shows. Do you still want to like
1038
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:37.960
get into that more?
1039
00:45:38.989 --> 00:45:41.210
It's not something I pursue, but obviously when people ask
1040
00:45:41.230 --> 00:45:43.190
me to do cameos or different things like that, like
1041
00:45:43.210 --> 00:45:45.110
I find it fun. I like being on sets and
1042
00:45:45.570 --> 00:45:47.199
doing little things like that. So yeah, I've done a
1043
00:45:47.219 --> 00:45:49.480
few things here and there, nothing big, but it's fun.
1044
00:45:49.639 --> 00:45:51.920
I'm not planning on getting a new job or anything.
1045
00:45:52.659 --> 00:45:54.639
We talked about your reading skills and how good you
1046
00:45:54.719 --> 00:45:57.340
are at understanding what hands are. There's so many YouTube
1047
00:45:57.380 --> 00:46:01.280
mashups of you calling out literally the exact hand that
1048
00:46:01.340 --> 00:46:05.219
people have and blowing people's minds. I'm curious how Do
1049
00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:07.599
you like think that way off the table? Are you
1050
00:46:07.619 --> 00:46:10.639
like reading people and body language and the way they are?
1051
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:12.119
Is that something you take off the table?
1052
00:46:13.380 --> 00:46:16.380
So imagine practicing doing something for 40 to 50 hours
1053
00:46:16.420 --> 00:46:18.159
a week, right? And this is what you do. And
1054
00:46:18.219 --> 00:46:19.300
this is how you think. And this is how you
1055
00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:23.969
approach things. And then just somehow turning it off. It's
1056
00:46:23.989 --> 00:46:26.650
not doable, right? This is partly why, you know, with chess,
1057
00:46:26.730 --> 00:46:29.190
you think of a guy like Bobby Fischer, right? The
1058
00:46:29.210 --> 00:46:32.989
game chess, it requires you to be constantly, for lack
1059
00:46:33.030 --> 00:46:35.489
of a better term, paranoid about about what your opponent
1060
00:46:35.530 --> 00:46:37.179
may do next. And then they may make this, you're
1061
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:39.090
thinking so far ahead about all the things to be
1062
00:46:39.110 --> 00:46:41.840
paranoid about. So he lived in a constant state of
1063
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:45.860
paranoia playing chess, which ended up spilling over to his
1064
00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:47.900
regular life where he was wearing a tinfoil hat and
1065
00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:50.079
the whole deal or whatever. But yeah, no question. I'm
1066
00:46:50.119 --> 00:46:52.460
not consciously saying, okay, I'm going to use my poker
1067
00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:54.400
reads to get a read on this person, but you're
1068
00:46:54.420 --> 00:46:56.880
not going to not see things you see when someone's
1069
00:46:57.300 --> 00:46:59.019
talking to you and they're not looking at you and
1070
00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:02.559
they're telling you something, you're like, okay, well, it seems suspect.
1071
00:47:02.619 --> 00:47:04.860
I'm not sure this is true. I'll bank that for later.
1072
00:47:05.179 --> 00:47:06.739
But again, it can benefit you. It can help you
1073
00:47:06.760 --> 00:47:08.559
in a lot of ways, especially with dealing with people
1074
00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:12.000
in terms of figuring out if someone's being honest with you.
1075
00:47:12.679 --> 00:47:14.699
What about for a non-poker player who wants to get
1076
00:47:14.739 --> 00:47:20.539
better at awareness of others, of tells, of human behavior?
1077
00:47:20.559 --> 00:47:21.949
You have to be a master at that, I think,
1078
00:47:22.030 --> 00:47:24.199
to be good at what you do. what are like
1079
00:47:24.260 --> 00:47:28.000
some general pieces of advice you'd give to that person who,
1080
00:47:28.340 --> 00:47:30.000
you know, doesn't know anything about poker has never played,
1081
00:47:30.059 --> 00:47:34.190
but obviously it's important to understand humans and the way
1082
00:47:34.230 --> 00:47:36.110
they behave and the decisions they make and.
1083
00:47:36.469 --> 00:47:38.369
Body language, all of that, that goes into it.
1084
00:47:39.570 --> 00:47:42.489
Pay attention. So here's the thing that I used to
1085
00:47:42.530 --> 00:47:44.949
actually do this. I'm not even kidding. I'm a people watcher.
1086
00:47:45.030 --> 00:47:47.329
I love watching people. I used to go to the mall.
1087
00:47:47.510 --> 00:47:50.219
I'd sit on a bench. People would walk by. And
1088
00:47:50.260 --> 00:47:52.320
I did as a sort of like a little game.
1089
00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:55.900
a little practice, if you will. I would like watch
1090
00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:58.659
how the person walked, watch what they're wearing, who they were,
1091
00:47:58.900 --> 00:48:01.239
and totally make up a story about exactly who they are,
1092
00:48:01.940 --> 00:48:03.860
what they were like in high school, what they do
1093
00:48:03.900 --> 00:48:06.460
for a living. Are they confident? Are they not? All
1094
00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:08.019
these types of things. I remember, and we all have
1095
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:09.940
this ability, by the way, to innately do this. I
1096
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:13.480
remember very young, I was five with my parents. We
1097
00:48:13.500 --> 00:48:16.019
were at a mall with another couple and there was
1098
00:48:16.039 --> 00:48:18.980
another guy with us, right? And this couple was married.
1099
00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:22.750
And I told my mother, I said, mommy, mommy, She
1100
00:48:22.789 --> 00:48:25.610
likes that one, not that one. And they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
1101
00:48:25.630 --> 00:48:29.969
That's her husband. That's just a friend. Nope. We found
1102
00:48:30.030 --> 00:48:33.019
out a couple months later, obviously, that she was having
1103
00:48:33.059 --> 00:48:36.099
an affair with the other guy. Because it's true when you, well, listen,
1104
00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:38.679
when you think about a baby, right? Baby doesn't speak anything,
1105
00:48:38.699 --> 00:48:41.780
but a baby can communicate. A baby looks at their mother, right?
1106
00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:43.889
Looks at their face and says, they can tell when
1107
00:48:43.909 --> 00:48:46.989
their mother's happy or sad. All these types of emotions
1108
00:48:47.010 --> 00:48:49.349
they can feel. As we get older, we get further
1109
00:48:49.389 --> 00:48:51.909
and further away from trusting what we see, what we know.
1110
00:48:51.929 --> 00:48:55.170
How many studies have been done where you look at
1111
00:48:55.210 --> 00:48:57.630
somebody for less than three seconds and you already decide
1112
00:48:57.670 --> 00:48:59.489
if you like them or not? There was a book
1113
00:48:59.530 --> 00:49:03.800
called Blink, I believe. Where he talks about they had
1114
00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:06.340
these kids in a classroom. They had a teacher speak
1115
00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:08.019
for a minute and had the kids say, do you
1116
00:49:08.059 --> 00:49:10.420
like them or not? Then they did it with three
1117
00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:14.659
second interval. Didn't change. The number didn't change. People just
1118
00:49:14.699 --> 00:49:16.679
made up their mind already. And part of it is
1119
00:49:16.699 --> 00:49:20.780
just the subconscious is so developed and so intriguing. so interesting.
1120
00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:23.960
We don't know why, but have you not saw someone
1121
00:49:23.980 --> 00:49:25.989
and be like, I don't know if I like that guy.
1122
00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:28.920
Like for no reason, but there's something that's something in
1123
00:49:28.940 --> 00:49:31.320
your subconscious telling you that there's something you saw that
1124
00:49:31.340 --> 00:49:33.639
you just can't access, but it's there and it's real.
1125
00:49:34.610 --> 00:49:37.289
Sometimes it feels off. You don't know why it just does.
1126
00:49:37.329 --> 00:49:38.929
And other times it feels like on, like, I don't
1127
00:49:38.949 --> 00:49:41.159
know why, but I'm really drawn to that person. I'm
1128
00:49:41.199 --> 00:49:44.280
attracted to their vibe. And yeah, I think it goes
1129
00:49:44.360 --> 00:49:47.440
both ways. You've hit on self-awareness a number of times,
1130
00:49:47.500 --> 00:49:51.719
being very self-aware, understanding how good you are at something
1131
00:49:51.860 --> 00:49:54.320
or where you have skills or where you may have
1132
00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:58.019
a weakness combined with humility. And I think Daniel, from
1133
00:49:58.059 --> 00:50:02.659
a leadership perspective, that's a really important combo, self-aware and
1134
00:50:02.760 --> 00:50:05.920
humble enough to learn. This is a tough one, but
1135
00:50:06.039 --> 00:50:11.320
how do you remain and continue to be a self-aware person,
1136
00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:15.909
especially for you when you become rich and the best
1137
00:50:16.090 --> 00:50:18.829
at what you do and when others around you want
1138
00:50:18.869 --> 00:50:21.010
to be in your orbit? So they may be scared
1139
00:50:21.610 --> 00:50:23.489
to tell you the truth or to tell you if
1140
00:50:23.570 --> 00:50:26.090
maybe you're lacking in something. I think it's even harder
1141
00:50:26.130 --> 00:50:28.550
for you than it would be for most people because
1142
00:50:28.570 --> 00:50:30.860
of all those things. So how do you stay and
1143
00:50:30.900 --> 00:50:32.719
increase your level of self-awareness?
1144
00:50:33.420 --> 00:50:36.679
Well, ultimately... That requires you surrounding yourself with people that
1145
00:50:36.699 --> 00:50:39.139
will be honest with you. My wife, for sure. She's
1146
00:50:39.159 --> 00:50:40.980
the most authentic person I've ever met in my life.
1147
00:50:41.300 --> 00:50:44.039
If you're inauthentic, even the least, she's like, ugh, gross.
1148
00:50:44.380 --> 00:50:46.500
I also did a course, and this was very valuable
1149
00:50:46.539 --> 00:50:49.139
to me. I did an emotional intelligence course in 2013.
1150
00:50:49.139 --> 00:50:52.949
It's transformational type stuff. There's one in Vegas called Choice Center.
1151
00:50:53.429 --> 00:50:55.050
And part of what you do there is you're going
1152
00:50:55.070 --> 00:50:57.190
to be like in a room with, you have blind spots.
1153
00:50:57.210 --> 00:50:59.150
You don't know how you show up, right? But then
1154
00:50:59.150 --> 00:51:01.989
50 people that you don't know all tell you, you
1155
00:51:02.030 --> 00:51:04.019
show up this way, that way, and that way. And
1156
00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:06.320
you're like, no, I don't. And you're like, well, you
1157
00:51:06.340 --> 00:51:09.699
do because they're telling you directly. So I think like
1158
00:51:09.739 --> 00:51:12.440
being aware of those blind spots in doing courses like that,
1159
00:51:12.840 --> 00:51:15.739
working on emotional intelligence, there's so many ways in which
1160
00:51:15.780 --> 00:51:17.599
you can do that these days. For me, the course
1161
00:51:17.639 --> 00:51:19.900
was life-changing in so many ways, because it really woke
1162
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:21.719
me up to some things that I didn't realize were
1163
00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:24.429
holding me back in terms of things that happened. Actually,
1164
00:51:24.449 --> 00:51:28.489
it's funny because it was with my now wife around 2010, 11,
1165
00:51:28.489 --> 00:51:30.489
we were dating. I bought her an engagement ring way
1166
00:51:30.510 --> 00:51:32.920
back then. Never gave it to her because we split,
1167
00:51:33.179 --> 00:51:35.789
things went bad, you know, and that one stung really bad.
1168
00:51:36.110 --> 00:51:37.829
And I didn't realize that I was carrying that around
1169
00:51:37.849 --> 00:51:39.650
for years in terms of the way that I was
1170
00:51:40.090 --> 00:51:43.289
even just dealing with other, any woman or any person
1171
00:51:43.309 --> 00:51:45.780
like that. There was like still a wound there. And
1172
00:51:45.820 --> 00:51:48.500
then just addressing that. And then of course, many years later,
1173
00:51:48.519 --> 00:51:50.880
she came back to Vegas and I kept the rings
1174
00:51:51.739 --> 00:51:53.579
and I gave it to her eventually. So we've been
1175
00:51:53.599 --> 00:51:55.699
married for five years. Today's our anniversary, by the way.
1176
00:51:55.969 --> 00:51:56.289
What?
1177
00:51:56.510 --> 00:51:59.230
What are you doing? She's still sleeping. So we're good.
1178
00:52:00.670 --> 00:52:04.130
Congrats. That's amazing. Yeah. Oh, that is very cool.
1179
00:52:04.170 --> 00:52:05.610
How did you, I don't know if I say win
1180
00:52:05.650 --> 00:52:07.670
her back, but how did you make it happen after
1181
00:52:07.690 --> 00:52:09.829
a breakup and some time and space?
1182
00:52:10.010 --> 00:52:12.170
I had, it's funny because I was, I remember way
1183
00:52:12.190 --> 00:52:14.070
back then I was the one chasing her and she
1184
00:52:14.110 --> 00:52:17.059
was young, having fun, living the Hollywood life. She wasn't
1185
00:52:17.099 --> 00:52:18.659
ready to settle down, but I was, I was 31.
1186
00:52:18.639 --> 00:52:21.900
She was probably 21 at the time when we first met.
1187
00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:24.539
And then she came back to do a show. She's
1188
00:52:24.579 --> 00:52:26.300
a host. She used to do the Fox, the big game,
1189
00:52:26.360 --> 00:52:28.199
Poker Star, the big game there. And She used to
1190
00:52:28.219 --> 00:52:30.179
host a lot of shows and things. So she came
1191
00:52:30.199 --> 00:52:32.320
back to do a show called Friday Night Poker and
1192
00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:35.159
we went to dinner. And I had no intention of
1193
00:52:35.199 --> 00:52:36.980
like getting back with this woman.
1194
00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:39.159
No, you kind of had a little bit. You had to.
1195
00:52:39.219 --> 00:52:41.000
I really didn't. I'm like, this is fun. I'm hanging
1196
00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:42.900
out for a minute, but I have no intention at all.
1197
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:45.949
But she did. She flat out told me because here
1198
00:52:45.989 --> 00:52:48.050
was the thing. I just got in and out of
1199
00:52:48.070 --> 00:52:50.929
a relationship and so did she. And I was honest
1200
00:52:50.949 --> 00:52:52.789
with her. I said, I'm going to date. I mean,
1201
00:52:52.809 --> 00:52:54.769
I'm dating here and there and whatever. And she said,
1202
00:52:54.789 --> 00:52:58.780
I get it. I don't like it. I'm not doing it,
1203
00:52:59.050 --> 00:53:01.230
but you do you. I was like, whoa, who is
1204
00:53:01.269 --> 00:53:04.369
this woman all of a sudden, right? So from then on,
1205
00:53:04.409 --> 00:53:06.250
I was no longer dating anybody else. And it was
1206
00:53:06.269 --> 00:53:08.550
just me and her. And we got married really fast
1207
00:53:08.610 --> 00:53:11.590
after that, actually, because it's not like you get married
1208
00:53:11.730 --> 00:53:14.489
not knowing this person. I've known her for 15 years.
1209
00:53:14.530 --> 00:53:17.909
We just got together again, probably it was, I think, October.
1210
00:53:18.409 --> 00:53:20.329
I proposed on New Year's Eve and we were married
1211
00:53:20.409 --> 00:53:22.070
by May. Wow.
1212
00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:25.280
What's the key to having a strong relationship with her?
1213
00:53:26.539 --> 00:53:29.639
I think with her specifically, so she's bipolar. And that
1214
00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:31.800
was one of the things that she shared with me
1215
00:53:31.820 --> 00:53:33.500
when we went to dinner. Because before that, I would
1216
00:53:33.519 --> 00:53:35.340
have been like, I don't want to mess with this girl, right?
1217
00:53:35.570 --> 00:53:38.250
When she shared this, she was very vulnerable, open, honest,
1218
00:53:38.650 --> 00:53:40.329
told me what it would be like and all that stuff.
1219
00:53:40.349 --> 00:53:42.730
So for me, it's been a blessing to know that.
1220
00:53:43.170 --> 00:53:47.659
And she's so intelligent about her moods and where she's
1221
00:53:47.739 --> 00:53:49.760
at that she communicates with me on a real deep level.
1222
00:53:49.780 --> 00:53:53.000
So the best benefit of that is I never take
1223
00:53:53.039 --> 00:53:55.750
anything personal. I really don't. Like, it's like, cause it
1224
00:53:55.769 --> 00:53:58.309
probably isn't about me. Sometimes she just wakes up in
1225
00:53:58.329 --> 00:54:00.849
a bad mood. Sometimes she does wakes up and she's happy, whatever.
1226
00:54:01.190 --> 00:54:02.630
So my goal every day is just to make her
1227
00:54:02.650 --> 00:54:06.139
as happy as possible. I need to be her rock, right?
1228
00:54:06.300 --> 00:54:09.300
Like that's how I see things. I'm the stable rock
1229
00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:11.059
and she's the one that's got her ups and downs
1230
00:54:11.079 --> 00:54:13.000
and I'm the one that levels her out. But ultimately
1231
00:54:13.019 --> 00:54:16.539
it's communication. And I think for both of us, we
1232
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:18.760
both are quite independent and we need our alone time
1233
00:54:19.050 --> 00:54:21.130
and we get plenty. During the day, this house is
1234
00:54:21.349 --> 00:54:24.059
two floors. Most of the day she's upstairs, I'm downstairs.
1235
00:54:24.119 --> 00:54:25.019
And then we convene at night.
1236
00:54:26.500 --> 00:54:29.280
Speaking of like being happy and being content, somebody asked
1237
00:54:29.300 --> 00:54:31.619
you when you were happiest and you'd said in very
1238
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:34.170
high stress situations. And there was, I think the main
1239
00:54:34.210 --> 00:54:35.949
event one year when you got knocked out in 11th
1240
00:54:35.989 --> 00:54:38.309
place and it was like a gut punch and it
1241
00:54:38.329 --> 00:54:38.630
killed you.
1242
00:54:38.650 --> 00:54:40.670
But like, that's when you were happiest. And I thought, whoa,
1243
00:54:41.010 --> 00:54:41.630
that seems weird.
1244
00:54:41.650 --> 00:54:44.429
So are you still at your happiest in the highest
1245
00:54:44.530 --> 00:54:45.929
level stress situations?
1246
00:54:46.570 --> 00:54:49.190
I love it. I mean, you feel alive, you know,
1247
00:54:49.210 --> 00:54:51.449
I don't know. Some people jump out of airplanes. Some
1248
00:54:51.469 --> 00:54:53.269
people bungee jump. I have no interest in that. You
1249
00:54:53.289 --> 00:54:56.690
could die. What are you crazy for me? I get
1250
00:54:56.730 --> 00:54:58.869
those thrills at the poker table. Like I love being
1251
00:54:58.909 --> 00:55:01.710
in it, you know? And the truth is with poker,
1252
00:55:01.730 --> 00:55:04.489
you're going to experience some pain, but without pain, there
1253
00:55:04.530 --> 00:55:06.840
can be no glory. There can be no joy. Right.
1254
00:55:07.179 --> 00:55:10.679
So I understand it's a necessary evil as in terms
1255
00:55:10.719 --> 00:55:12.760
of like, you know, experiencing that kind of joy, but
1256
00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:14.480
I love being in it. I love being deep in
1257
00:55:14.500 --> 00:55:17.380
the competition. I love the feeling of adrenaline taking over.
1258
00:55:17.860 --> 00:55:21.349
and putting you in this hyper-focused state. I love being
1259
00:55:21.369 --> 00:55:22.829
in that state. It's a lot of fun for me.
1260
00:55:23.010 --> 00:55:25.630
After I'm done, I'm exhausted. Like my hair hurts. I'm
1261
00:55:25.650 --> 00:55:28.530
so tired. While I'm doing it, there's nothing else I'd
1262
00:55:28.550 --> 00:55:29.070
rather be doing.
1263
00:55:29.369 --> 00:55:31.389
Is that when you feel most alive?
1264
00:55:32.730 --> 00:55:34.929
It's funny you say that because that's a rounder's quote
1265
00:55:35.489 --> 00:55:39.679
where Matt Damon, Mike McDermott says to his girlfriend, he's like,
1266
00:55:39.739 --> 00:55:41.380
I just, you know what? I felt alive the first
1267
00:55:41.400 --> 00:55:44.139
time of year. She's like, you just told me that
1268
00:55:44.159 --> 00:55:46.900
you felt alive for the first time at a poker table, Mike.
1269
00:55:47.329 --> 00:55:49.170
How am I supposed to take that? I'm like, shut
1270
00:55:49.250 --> 00:55:52.880
up and leave. OK, you suck. Yeah. You know, for me,
1271
00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:56.219
it's about competition and it's about, you know, my craft.
1272
00:55:56.280 --> 00:56:01.340
And I think there's something attractive, frankly, about people having
1273
00:56:01.380 --> 00:56:03.269
a passion. I know Amanda loves it when I'm deep
1274
00:56:03.289 --> 00:56:05.769
in a final. She's sitting there watching online. She's watching
1275
00:56:05.789 --> 00:56:08.150
the stream. She's you know, she loves seeing me succeed.
1276
00:56:08.170 --> 00:56:09.989
She loves seeing me in my in my element, you know,
1277
00:56:10.010 --> 00:56:11.309
succeeding at doing what I do best.
1278
00:56:11.889 --> 00:56:12.730
I agree, man.
1279
00:56:12.750 --> 00:56:15.849
There is something deeply attractive about a person who you
1280
00:56:15.869 --> 00:56:19.090
can tell they're giving everything to it and they love it.
1281
00:56:19.570 --> 00:56:21.329
You mentioned him, right?
1282
00:56:21.429 --> 00:56:21.809
Yeah.
1283
00:56:22.349 --> 00:56:24.050
I'm waking up at three in the morning. Guys are
1284
00:56:24.070 --> 00:56:27.719
coming back from the club. I'm going to the gym.
1285
00:56:28.010 --> 00:56:28.780
That's badass.
1286
00:56:29.420 --> 00:56:30.460
Yeah.
1287
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:34.519
I'm sure you get requests from young poker players all
1288
00:56:34.559 --> 00:56:37.280
the time. I think these lessons could probably apply beyond
1289
00:56:37.320 --> 00:56:40.969
just the table. What are some general pieces of of
1290
00:56:41.139 --> 00:56:44.869
life slash career slash poker advice you give to somebody
1291
00:56:44.889 --> 00:56:46.369
who's earlier in their career?
1292
00:56:47.650 --> 00:56:49.690
Well, generally the first thing I want to know is like,
1293
00:56:50.050 --> 00:56:51.510
what do you want to use poker as? Is this
1294
00:56:51.530 --> 00:56:53.550
something you want to do for full-time as a living?
1295
00:56:53.610 --> 00:56:54.789
Or is it something you just want to get better
1296
00:56:54.849 --> 00:56:57.230
at for fun? Because there's two very different avenues for
1297
00:56:57.269 --> 00:56:59.860
what you'd want to do there. I think in both cases,
1298
00:57:00.579 --> 00:57:02.559
don't do what I did basically, because it's very rare
1299
00:57:02.579 --> 00:57:05.820
that you succeed doing this. But typically I tell people
1300
00:57:05.860 --> 00:57:08.840
to like, It's never going anywhere, right? So finish school,
1301
00:57:08.880 --> 00:57:10.760
do whatever you got to do, have a primary job,
1302
00:57:11.059 --> 00:57:12.980
then start playing poker on the side if you'd like.
1303
00:57:13.420 --> 00:57:15.639
And if you start to notice and track it diligently,
1304
00:57:15.780 --> 00:57:17.239
your results, don't be like, yeah, I think I do
1305
00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:19.739
pretty good. Know exactly how well you do or don't.
1306
00:57:20.110 --> 00:57:22.289
Track every penny. And then you can take a look
1307
00:57:22.309 --> 00:57:23.550
at the end of the year and say, you know what?
1308
00:57:24.650 --> 00:57:27.429
I was making like $ 80 an hour playing poker and
1309
00:57:27.449 --> 00:57:29.710
I make 40 at my job. So maybe I can
1310
00:57:29.750 --> 00:57:32.449
make the transition. But do so from a stable place
1311
00:57:32.550 --> 00:57:36.010
rather than... Because it's a lot different playing poker when...
1312
00:57:36.469 --> 00:57:39.199
You need to win to pay your rent. Not everyone
1313
00:57:39.260 --> 00:57:40.559
is cut out from that cloth.
1314
00:57:40.659 --> 00:57:40.940
I am.
1315
00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:44.059
I love those moments, but not everyone can handle that
1316
00:57:44.099 --> 00:57:44.619
kind of pressure.
1317
00:57:45.719 --> 00:57:47.900
Does it make it harder to bluff in those days
1318
00:57:47.980 --> 00:57:50.260
when you needed it? I know it would for me.
1319
00:57:50.579 --> 00:57:53.949
Maybe I'm just projecting myself onto you, but early days,
1320
00:57:54.150 --> 00:57:57.510
you need that money to eat, to pay rent. I
1321
00:57:57.530 --> 00:57:59.869
feel like it'd be tougher to bluff, but maybe that's
1322
00:57:59.929 --> 00:58:01.170
because we're cut from the cloth.
1323
00:58:01.210 --> 00:58:03.829
That's exactly what would be the most difficult thing. The
1324
00:58:03.849 --> 00:58:06.679
most difficult thing would be like, bluffing it off and realizing,
1325
00:58:06.719 --> 00:58:08.380
oh my God, the guy called and now I'm done.
1326
00:58:08.659 --> 00:58:10.500
And that's something that you can avoid, right? You've got
1327
00:58:10.539 --> 00:58:13.139
your case money here. If you just check and don't bet,
1328
00:58:13.360 --> 00:58:14.960
you know, you still have that money, but if you
1329
00:58:14.980 --> 00:58:17.699
throw it in there, you know, and that's, that's where the,
1330
00:58:17.820 --> 00:58:19.619
you know, when I say people like crumble into that,
1331
00:58:19.820 --> 00:58:21.260
you have to be able to do that. You have
1332
00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:23.239
to be willing to do that. If you're playing, if
1333
00:58:23.260 --> 00:58:25.460
you're not able to do that, then the stakes you're
1334
00:58:25.480 --> 00:58:26.679
playing are probably too big.
1335
00:58:28.260 --> 00:58:31.090
To close, man, I want to focus on last year,
1336
00:58:31.809 --> 00:58:34.610
this year, And going forward, last year, I believe, is
1337
00:58:34.730 --> 00:58:38.349
one of your worst years ever. You lost $ 2. 2 million,
1338
00:58:38.909 --> 00:58:41.679
I believe. You've won every year of your career except
1339
00:58:41.699 --> 00:58:43.400
for like one or two. And last year was your
1340
00:58:43.420 --> 00:58:47.579
biggest loss. And you've started this year pretty good already. One,
1341
00:58:47.820 --> 00:58:49.969
what made you want to share all of that? Because
1342
00:58:49.989 --> 00:58:51.429
you could have probably said, yeah, it was kind of
1343
00:58:51.449 --> 00:58:53.070
a rough year, but I'm ready to get back after.
1344
00:58:53.090 --> 00:58:57.769
But you shared like specifics of, because people hear $ 2. 2
1345
00:58:56.809 --> 00:58:59.219
million are like, oh, my God. So that part of it.
1346
00:58:59.239 --> 00:59:01.599
And then two, what have you changed in order to
1347
00:59:01.659 --> 00:59:03.039
make this year better already?
1348
00:59:03.599 --> 00:59:06.710
Yeah. Well, again, we talk about authenticity. I've been sharing
1349
00:59:06.750 --> 00:59:09.929
my results in 2013. Like I share publicly at the
1350
00:59:09.949 --> 00:59:12.190
end of the year. Imagine me sharing every year and
1351
00:59:12.210 --> 00:59:13.929
then having a losing year. Yeah, no, we're not going
1352
00:59:13.949 --> 00:59:15.989
to talk about that. No, that's not how it works.
1353
00:59:16.280 --> 00:59:18.840
You share every year, right? And frankly, I've been pretty
1354
00:59:18.900 --> 00:59:22.019
lucky since 2013 to only have this big losing year.
1355
00:59:22.429 --> 00:59:25.139
And then one other that's rare because when you think about,
1356
00:59:25.159 --> 00:59:28.039
I only play live poker, live tournaments, it's a very
1357
00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:31.420
small sample size over a hundred, 150. It's very common
1358
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:32.880
where you're going to be down a little bit of money,
1359
00:59:32.980 --> 00:59:35.719
especially with the way tournaments work. But I've been pretty consistent,
1360
00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:38.489
pretty lucky to not have those big numbers. And frankly,
1361
00:59:38.789 --> 00:59:41.309
whatever I lost 2.2 the year before I won like two.
1362
00:59:42.150 --> 00:59:43.670
And that's going to happen. It's just one of those years.
1363
00:59:43.949 --> 00:59:46.309
What I do is I look back at the year
1364
00:59:46.329 --> 00:59:48.719
and I say, okay. Rather than wine, which is completely
1365
00:59:48.739 --> 00:59:51.280
about the bad luck, which existed, right? Obviously, I'm not
1366
00:59:51.300 --> 00:59:53.440
going to lose $ 2 million without having bad luck. But
1367
00:59:53.460 --> 00:59:55.059
then I look at, all right, what can I control?
1368
00:59:55.699 --> 01:00:00.159
What areas can I fix? What worked in 2023 and
1369
01:00:00.199 --> 01:00:03.719
what didn't work? Let's continue to improve upon what worked, right?
1370
01:00:04.500 --> 01:00:05.900
And let's take a look at what didn't work and
1371
01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:07.500
let's see if we can make some upgrades. One thing
1372
01:00:07.539 --> 01:00:09.880
that didn't work for me, which is a big change,
1373
01:00:10.639 --> 01:00:14.139
is in 2024, I'm focusing on quality over quantity. I
1374
01:00:14.179 --> 01:00:16.050
have a little bit of FOMO. I don't like to
1375
01:00:16.090 --> 01:00:18.960
miss out on stuff. And it all, frankly, was an
1376
01:00:18.980 --> 01:00:21.619
epiphany thanks to my wife, Amanda. We were in Bahamas.
1377
01:00:21.639 --> 01:00:24.360
It was December. And I just busted a tournament. And
1378
01:00:24.380 --> 01:00:27.280
there's another tournament. It's a small buy-in. And I was
1379
01:00:27.320 --> 01:00:28.559
talking around the floor. I said, yeah, I don't really
1380
01:00:28.579 --> 01:00:30.739
feel like playing. I'll go jump in this tournament. And
1381
01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:32.320
she said, you've never done any good when you don't
1382
01:00:32.340 --> 01:00:34.719
feel like playing. And I was like, wait a minute. No, yes,
1383
01:00:34.760 --> 01:00:37.019
I have. Remember that time when? And I couldn't think
1384
01:00:37.059 --> 01:00:39.099
of one. And I was like, oh, my God. So
1385
01:00:39.239 --> 01:00:40.960
I didn't play. I just said, you know what? I'm
1386
01:00:40.980 --> 01:00:42.019
going to go to bed. And then the next day,
1387
01:00:42.039 --> 01:00:42.960
I played a big one. It was a $ 25, 000 one.
1388
01:00:44.119 --> 01:00:46.050
I had a really nice run in that because I
1389
01:00:46.070 --> 01:00:48.210
was fresh and really ready to do that. So I
1390
01:00:48.230 --> 01:00:51.690
think in 2023, I played way too much. I just,
1391
01:00:51.889 --> 01:00:54.510
I played too much volume and didn't take enough breaks
1392
01:00:54.570 --> 01:00:56.400
and rest. And as you get older, at least for me,
1393
01:00:56.840 --> 01:00:59.780
you know, me resting and I have to be at
1394
01:00:59.800 --> 01:01:02.000
the poker table and really want to be there. If
1395
01:01:02.019 --> 01:01:04.579
there's any part of my brain that's like, yeah, I
1396
01:01:04.639 --> 01:01:07.349
kind of wouldn't mind laying and going to bed right now.
1397
01:01:07.409 --> 01:01:09.969
That's going to affect how you play spots, right? You
1398
01:01:10.010 --> 01:01:12.730
might take high variance situations, be like, whatever, I'll either
1399
01:01:12.750 --> 01:01:14.829
get some chips or, you know, I'll go broke. And
1400
01:01:15.150 --> 01:01:17.650
that's not playing your best poke, right? So I'm going
1401
01:01:17.670 --> 01:01:19.889
to focus on if I just don't feel like playing,
1402
01:01:20.449 --> 01:01:21.030
take the day off.
1403
01:01:21.530 --> 01:01:24.190
Quality over quantity. Thank you so much, man, for doing this.
1404
01:01:24.210 --> 01:01:26.349
This is amazing. Patty was awesome to work with. And
1405
01:01:26.369 --> 01:01:28.550
I want to publicly note, I appreciate you being early.
1406
01:01:28.730 --> 01:01:30.769
Not always the case, but that's important. And I think
1407
01:01:30.789 --> 01:01:33.239
those little details matter. So thank you so much, man.
1408
01:01:33.340 --> 01:01:35.679
Love to continue our dialogue as we both progress, Daniel.
1409
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Sounds good, man.
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01:01:36.940 --> 01:01:37.320
It was fun.
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01:01:37.800 --> 01:01:38.059
Thank you.
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01:01:43.250 --> 01:01:46.190
It is the end of the podcast club. Thank you
1413
01:01:46.230 --> 01:01:48.909
for being a member of the end of the podcast club.
1414
01:01:48.929 --> 01:01:51.880
If you are, send me a note, ryan at learningleader.com.
1415
01:01:51.920 --> 01:01:54.320
Let me know what you learned from this great conversation
1416
01:01:54.380 --> 01:01:58.239
with Daniel Negreanu. A few takeaways from my notes. I
1417
01:01:58.300 --> 01:02:02.039
love his obsession with the Rocky movies and the lessons
1418
01:02:02.159 --> 01:02:05.840
learned from each one. Like Rocky III, don't get complacent.
1419
01:02:05.900 --> 01:02:10.769
Rocky IV, it's heart versus machine. Rocky Balboa, it ain't
1420
01:02:10.809 --> 01:02:13.539
about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you
1421
01:02:13.579 --> 01:02:17.300
can get hit and keep moving forward, how much you
1422
01:02:17.320 --> 01:02:22.130
can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done.
1423
01:02:22.530 --> 01:02:26.030
And then his quote, which I think he really lives, is,
1424
01:02:31.699 --> 01:02:35.679
be nothing. And Daniel was out there voicing his beliefs
1425
01:02:35.820 --> 01:02:38.860
and opinions. And I think that's something that has leaders
1426
01:02:39.139 --> 01:02:42.800
to aspire to. And then the luck factor and dealing
1427
01:02:42.880 --> 01:02:46.800
with things outside of your control, a victim versus an
1428
01:02:47.159 --> 01:02:51.380
owner mentality. And it seems the people with an owner
1429
01:02:51.420 --> 01:02:55.880
mentality have a greater chance to sustain excellence over time. Victims,
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01:02:56.280 --> 01:03:00.530
they'll complain, they give up, sock, they're passive aggressive, they procrastinate.
1431
01:03:00.550 --> 01:03:05.219
Whereas owners, seek solutions, take action, ask for help sometimes.
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01:03:05.420 --> 01:03:08.260
Victims seem to focus on things that are outside of
1433
01:03:08.300 --> 01:03:11.539
their control and blame it on luck while owners will
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01:03:11.579 --> 01:03:14.880
focus on things that they can control. Once again, I
1435
01:03:14.889 --> 01:03:16.730
would say thank you so much for continuing to spread
1436
01:03:16.750 --> 01:03:18.710
the message and telling our friend door to, hey, you
1437
01:03:18.750 --> 01:03:21.389
should listen. this episode of The Learning Leader Show with
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01:03:21.489 --> 01:03:23.989
Daniel Negreanu. I think he'll help you become a more
1439
01:03:24.070 --> 01:03:26.949
effective leader. And because you continue to do that, and
1440
01:03:26.969 --> 01:03:29.650
you also go to Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and you
1441
01:03:29.690 --> 01:03:32.510
subscribe to the show, you rate the show, hopefully five stars,
1442
01:03:32.550 --> 01:03:35.099
and you write a thoughtful review. And by doing all
1443
01:03:35.119 --> 01:03:39.199
of that, you are continually giving me the opportunity to
1444
01:03:39.239 --> 01:03:41.280
do what I love on a daily basis. And for that,
1445
01:03:41.800 --> 01:03:44.539
I will forever be grateful. Thank you so, so much.
1446
01:03:44.619 --> 01:03:45.030
Talk to you soon.
1447
01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:45.429
Can't wait.