Mark: All right, so welcome back to the Kaizen Performance Podcast. Bit more of a formal introduction than usual and for very good reason. So today's episode, we're going to be doing something a little bit different, something we probably wanted to do for a wee while. And between schedules, the line and everything else, we're getting the opportunity to do it now on a very dark Thursday morning with none other than Liam Coleman. We're going to do a bit of a performance roundtable where we break down a bit of a topic relating to performance, give our inputs, give our kind of thoughts on the different area and give you a little bit of practical value to take away from today's episode. So going to be breaking down all things energy management with Liam. So Liam, first and foremost, welcome back to the podcast. didn't get the pleasure of doing the podcast, is... this time two years ago when you're on this so for me as much as anyone else would you give us a bit of a reintroduction to who you are, what you do and all that good stuff
Paddy: That's right.
Liam Coleman: Yes, no problem. Thanks for having me again lad. It's mad it's been two years. I actually forgot Mark you weren't on it the last time so there you are. ⁓ So yeah quickly look my name is Liam Coleman I am from Wexford. I had the pleasure of living with Mark and Paddy back in DCU for a while and we were learning our trade I suppose. Since then I studied psychology ⁓ and since then I suppose I've pursued psychology in the kind of from an
Mark: I
Paddy: I was holding the fort. Don't worry about it. Haha.
Liam Coleman: organizational point of view. that's basically behavioral psychology applied to workplace, which was actually the of the birthplace for sports psychology. everything, know, signs that delved into the way we behave, our habits and how we can, I suppose, manipulate those habits and behaviors to help us perform. I mostly look at the work side of things and how we can perform at work and interact with our colleagues at work. but it's very very applicable to the sports side of things as well which is I suppose I see because I also played lot of sport and have a lot of interest in sports so I've been look played Gaelic football, ⁓ way to Wexford for the last six seasons. I was captain for, for, ⁓ for three of those seasons. So I suppose I've, I've, I've really enjoyed being able to apply kind of what I studied, what I work in, in, in, into, into sport as well. And I suppose try B about it, not just talk about it. So like, there's no, there's no silver bullet. There's just like by no means an expert, but, look, I'm fascinated by all, by, by our brain, how we can, how we can learn.
Mark: you
Liam Coleman: about ourselves and I suppose as well which is what really good today to be here with Paddy and Mark like with you guys the like nutritionist and a strength and conditioning coach to kind of the holistic approach towards towards performance you know like how how they all integrate because to anyone listening who's part of team sports and you're there with a manager, an S &C coach, you might have a nutritionist, you're getting information from all angles, as well as all the media we consume. If you're listening to this, you're consuming this media, but there's lots of stuff out there and it's all about finding what works for you and kind of developing a strategy to apply that and I suppose that's kind of what we'll be talking about today. So that's a long-winded introduction to myself. Thanks for having me and looking forward to having a chat about this stuff as always
Mark: lovely now we appreciate the instruction party of the whole day the instruction on your end i think we'll we'll okay now it's it's good to get that little bit of of back in the way sleep over clues it for the highlights where you're coming from you know both the professional set in terms of where you work ⁓ brought up from that performance piece to and i think being able to release atop of today energy management to both sides the coin is is really important because
Paddy: Nah, I think I'm all good. I've not knocked the top of the head anyway.
Mark: I would imagine that 99 % of our listeners aren't professional athletes, so they will be trying to balance a professional life with an amateur sport, whether that's inter-caring, whether that's club level. So I think it's nice to be able to have those two different viewpoints. just from the outset, energy management is maybe something that is new to some people. But if you're to... define it or if you were to describe what energy management is across sport and performance, across professional life, what does it look like or what do you mean?
Liam Coleman: ⁓ I think the best way I can describe it and it might make it more comprehensible for people who haven't heard of it before is around, it's almost like, so I think there's a statement around like particularly in the GAA world where you might have a league amateur athlete, so you know, a lot of the time, We don't, they don't struggle because of a lack of effort. We all put unbelievable effort into our craft, but we struggle because of our lack of available energy. You could be doing all the right things in terms of nutrition. You could be doing all the right things in terms of your physical training. But then you could also be doing all the right things for your job. You could be doing all the right things for your relationships, for your family, for your friends. And then all of a sudden you're doing all the right things for everybody except yourself. So it's almost like you're going to and then you you expect to be able to perform at a high level On a Tuesday night a Thursday night and then at the weekend on a Saturday or a Sunday perform at a high level Monday through Friday or whatever your job is and you know be that person for everybody and it's almost like you're going to the petrol pump and There's no petrol in the pump to fill up your car. You're just running on fumes to be honest like you're you know, your glass is always empty So it's always I like to think of like what's you know when you're going you're going to take a drink of if your glass is constantly empty, you're not going to be able to refuel properly. I'm not talking about specifically just water here, like hydration, it's more the spiritual, the mental, the emotional energy that we need as well to be able to perform physiologically and...
Mark: you
Liam Coleman: like if you look at like the neuropsychology of all of that it's it's there's lots of evidence there as well to suggest around you know when we're when we're low on energy when we're high on stress or cortisol levels are high it's very very difficult to be able to perform so it's really really always being conscious of how we're feeling you know your current training load what's ahead of you what's to what's what are you just put in the bank what's behind you and then having little strategies tips plans in place to navigate that because look, think we'll all agree it's really, really difficult, like I said, to be all things to everybody all at once. energy management is the strategy to kind of navigate that. And it's really just knitting all things together, like all the work that you guys do from a physiological point of view and kind of behaviorally how can we plan our week, our month, our season to help that.
Mark: Hmm like from from my point of view like I would class it as a relatively new area that athletes have probably started paying a bit more attention to and Like I'll kind of pass it to both yourself Patti and Liam like as you know the elites of our kind of elite amateurs In terms of Gaelic football like is it something you both have always considered? You know Liam is it something that maybe you started paying a bit more attention to? given your area of expertise, given your background, or is it just in recent years? And Patti, is it similar enough with you? Like, is it something that you've always kind of paid attention to, or is it something that you've paid maybe more attention to when you went into an inter-county setup, or what did, you know, energy management look like for yourself?
Liam Coleman: Yeah, I think so. I'd even be able to probably recall conversations we might have been having when we were in college around football. You knew this thing existed because it's kind of logical to know when you're struggling or your form isn't good. And you're always able to, I find, always able to connect to times in life when... school was going well, might have been school was going well, or times in life when college was going well, football usually seemed to be going well and you found yourself in that kind of positive cycle and when you when you reflect back on that that was probably because you felt you had the energy and then more often than not the other one was your form was bad, your body wasn't right, you were struggling with exams, you were struggling with deadlines at work and then you're seeing I suppose the negative side when you might have neglected that energy and you probably you didn't know it was called energy management or you don't even have to call it energy management. It's just like it's more being in tune with how you're feeling and what's going on and what kind of system you find yourself in life at that time. So I think like energy management was it is there for everybody. It's just our balance, you know, and It's always good to name these things because when you don't name it, you don't really know what's going on. And it makes it lot easier to be logical and put something in place to counteract it and navigate it. Like we would have said at the of the call. So that's kind of your experience of it. And I think it's important to call that out because it's very easy to talk about these things as concepts or as theories or as like, what is energy management, know? But I think it's more so just the way we...
Mark: you
Liam Coleman: The way we feel, like if you do a quick audit and you are honest with yourself and your energy at a 10, you know, it's always a good place to start to kind of check in with yourself. But yeah, look, it's not just like Mark, you definitely experienced it too. it's not even this thing isn't even just for athletes. mean, like I said, at work, it's something like what executives you talk about a lot because they have, you know, a lot of things. They're extremely busy people as well. So it's for all people, you know, and it's just making sure you have the right amount of energy to perform.
Mark: Yeah, like I think in my world ⁓ of nutrition, when we talk about, you know, energy and energy available to us, ⁓ sometimes when there's low energy, there's certain signs and symptoms that, you know, I might look out for as a practitioner in athletes in terms of performance, in terms of their day to day living. Like in terms of when we talk about maybe mental energy or maybe emotional energy or cognitive energy, when that is low, like you've kind of, and Patti's kind of touched on kind of burnout, like are there kind of signs, symptoms that, you know, we can look out for as a professional, as an athlete, so that we can kind of, you know, ⁓ check in with ourselves, know where we're at, monitor our energy, so that it's not a case of, you you keep digging, you keep digging, you keep digging, and your energy's going down and down. Is there anything you would, you know, advise clients or yourself, look out for as an athlete on a day-to-day or weekly basis? in terms of your own energy management.
Liam Coleman: Yeah for sure like look obviously the where you want to avoid is injury right that's that's generally the kind of worst case scenario for for this type of burnout obviously you know you can pick up soft tissue and yet but it's not even that like you know i've had a lot of like ⁓ broken collar bones, bad ankles, broken ankle. You say that kind of stuff was unlucky, but when you actually do, you go and analyse your patterns of behaviour coming into periods like that, you're probably finding yourself very stretched and you leave yourself susceptible to injuries. I'm sure you guys, a nutrition and a strength and conditioning point of view, will back that up. If you're mentally switched off or you're there in body, not in mind, you are leaving yourself open to that. to those type of injuries as well. So like that's kind of your worst case scenario. So to your question, like you don't want to get there. You don't you don't want the consequence to happen before like before you stop it. So I think there's there's lots of things we can be looking at ⁓ and a proactive from a proactive point of view. ⁓ And the first one is definitely just a bit of self reflection. Sit down, look at your day, look at your week, you know.
Mark: Hmm.
Liam Coleman: Rate that rate your as you do that rate that energy out of 10. How like how are you? You know, sometimes it might not even be that i'm really really busy. It might just be your mood is low Do know why you're actually finding yourself? You know, you're finding yourself in a period it could be the off season and you don't have that structure training to kind of hold you accountable and your mood is your mood is low like A part of a part of energy management right is oscillation. So kind of being strategic. We have to actually push ourselves to get energy, too You know, like, I'm, I'm probably... This is one of my down points and I was like when you guys were trying to get me I was saying like I'm in a very busy period at the moment and sometimes I'll prioritize training in the morning over an extra hour sleep because I know I have a busy morning at work right and I will show up better to work having done an hour in the gym rather than having an hour sleep. Now I have to pay that sleep back right because ultimately you have to perform and this is the whole thing about it's not like you know people always say work-life balance or get that balanced It's not really balance, it's more about being aware of what gives me energy or what gives you energy and when do you need your energy for and then when can you rest. So the important part then is, I don't always do this now and sometimes I have to work on this, is making sure I get that sleep back because obviously it's probably the most important part of replenishing and recovering. But then it's like, when am I an athlete? When am I a professional? When am I just like a friend or a boyfriend? And it's always being aware of who you are, who you want to be at a certain period of time and then planning for it. So I think having that constant checking in with yourself is really, important. You can also make loads of signs out there from our environment that we can tell as well. mean, if you're constantly getting slack from people in your life around not being around or, you know, not being able to find the time, that means you're probably in a poor system where you're constantly reacting and chasing. Like, that's another one that I find, just speaking from my own personal experience here, is that, you know, just like the whole time. If you're constantly saying, don't have time, I don't have time, I don't have time, you probably need to check in with yourself because, everyone's day is the same length. So ⁓ it's either you might need to drop something to know look at your list of look at your to-do list like you know it's in business a lot it's your it's your not to-do list is more important than your to-do list to know so what can you drop out if that's from a like a training point of view is it just having a touch in with your s &c coach and saying look this is my situation i know we're supposed to be doing this but what could i do instead or what could i drop out because we all have different needs and then again if you're the person who's finding yourself with not a lot to do right your energy could be equally as low because we need that routine so then it's like right that's again where having a coach is really really really really handy because you can talk about this kind of stuff you know because it might be it might seem farcical to say that I feel wrecked I feel really tired I have no energy but I'm doing nothing So you need that routine to be able to give ourselves energy and kind of stretch ourselves because you need that. Like just think of like the optimal point of performance like a York Stoddson law where if your activity levels are really low, your performance levels are probably going to be low. And then there's a sweet point, there's a sweet spot there where your activity levels are high, your performance levels are right. You can obviously go too high with your activity levels and then we start to drop off again on our performance level. So it's trying to maintain that sweet spot and like try not to let it get to an injury or try not to let it get to a stage where you're so bored that you're kind of falling out of love with the game or whatever you're trying to do. And I think what you can look out for is definitely do a lot of self-check-ins, rate your energy. Journaling is really, great to kind of jot down your thoughts, see what you're thinking, rationalize them. because we all have a lot of irrational thoughts when we get into that fight or flight kind of zone. ⁓ And just work on it, it's a skill, you know? And if you just float by like anything and you're not intentional about it, you could go through six months, a year of thinking you're training right and not actually getting any, as much as you should be out of it. I don't know if that answers your question, Mark, I think like there are just some of the things from my own experience anyway that I would always be looking out for.
Mark: you Yeah, like I think you've covered a lot there that's, know, be like, I'm smiling away when you're talking about different things there, because I can really relate to some of those. You know, people listen can relate to, you know, a lot of a lot of what you've covered there. Like I think in terms of identifying like what gives us energy, like I think that's really important. And, know, the individuality in that is quite key. Like you get your gym session, you know, you're kind of short ending your sleep to get that gym session in because you know. the outcome of getting that session in before a busy day is worth it and you'll get that rest back further down the line. What I typically find when I'm kinda at my busiest, when I'm saying yes to everything and I don't have enough time for myself and the things that give me energy, like them busy periods when I need those things to fill my cup up is when I give the least amount of time to them things and it's nearly like this kinda cycle over and over again. Like what I, what I sometimes, preach to clients, like it's something I don't do myself. You know, in terms of identifying and you kind of touched on it there, like what does good look like from a nutrition point of view, like when things are busiest. So in that kind of case, is it something similar? Like from, you know, filling your cup up, like identifying what gives me energy and kind of factoring the thing in. Is it a case of just, you know, stripping back kind of expectations around factoring those things in? it instead of getting an hour gym session in?
Liam Coleman: Hmm.
Mark: It's a 20 minute session instead of, you know, other bits and pieces. Like is it kind of reshaping what it actually looks like and changing the expectations but still factoring in or does it need to be set a certain way the whole time or how would you kind of approach that sort of situation?
Liam Coleman: ⁓ I think it's like it's definitely You can't go off and you do your like especially for private team sport or your you know You have a coach you can't go off and completely do your own thing and like, Paddy, it'd good to get your take here, especially in terms of the physical training. But I do think it's very important to find a routine that works for you. Like, you know, find sessions that you're trying to incorporate. Like, I see you guys talking about, like, even like that microdosing stuff. Like, if you're busy, can you fit in part of your gym session on a Monday, part of your gym session on a Tuesday, part of your gym session on a Wednesday? You know, if you get energy from doing physical exercise, right, that's something you should be thinking of. I think that and like there's a especially if you're part of a team sport a coach can't a coach can't you know alter or especially in an amateur team sport change their coaching to meet every individual so it's like the onus is very much on you it's your responsibility to to to go and seek information and put that plan in place Mark and then but I
Paddy: you
Liam Coleman: again trying to go back to your question having a routine is vital right for for energy because we are habitual creatures we like we like a set routine you know so the real tangible stuff like get your wake time and get your sleep time locked down. I think that's a really good place to start because sleep is probably the most important part in terms of making sure we have enough energy is making sure we have enough sleep. So try to have a consistent sleep and wake time and then fit your routine around that. ⁓ again, I'd be very big on getting your, and research would also be big on the benefits of doing this kind of stuff earlier in your day. Like, and that was a huge switch for me is when I started training in the morning before work. It meant that the nights I'm not training, like with the team, I have free, you know, I have free to do the other important stuff in life that gives us energy. Like, you know, meeting friends or just simply having a bit of time for yourself, which is... can be very difficult. And Patty, I'm sure you'll have lots of kind of, and you probably want to jump in here around that training, how that week looks like from a training point of view.
Paddy: Hmm. I think, think like that's probably the big area that, you know, a lot of athletes can fall down and, know, while it's very hard to give an overall just one size fits all approach here on this, like if you do get your structure enough, you're training wrong. can have quite detrimental effects on your performance. As you alluded to some of the consequences. I suppose like the way that I as an overall ⁓ point of view, look at it, is more so being fluid with it because the demands and the schedule in season for a lot of athletes is ever changing. Some weeks you're on the pitch Wednesday, Friday, some weeks you're on the pitch Tuesday, Tuesday, Thursday. So while I think routine is crucial around the areas regarding what... what ⁓ you mentioned, your daily habits, et cetera, your wake time, your sleep time, that you should be ⁓ non-negotiables. I think from a training point of view, it's important to be fluid with it and have a couple of, ⁓ I suppose, different structures that you can plug in based on the week's demands. ⁓ There's loads of different ways that we can structure training, like you would have alluded to, I'm really... ⁓ big on ⁓ micro dosing our training across the week and kind of using short or more frequent bouts. And that can be a really useful strategy for someone who's maybe ⁓ struggling for energy and kind of, you know, doesn't want to dedicate a big chunk of time on a Monday and kind of really fry themselves on that day. They like more frequent bouts, but then for someone else, you know, they actually might prefer to do that bigger, longer gym session. So I think it's important to meet the individual where they're at. ⁓ And as you alluded to, each week is different, each person is different. And from my aspect, you can meet a lot of individuals there. While the team coach may not be able to structure, have 30 different sessions going on, there's small, I suppose, nuances that I can include, whether it's going with a hybrid approach, a little bit of microdosing, a little bit of traditional. whether it's full microdosing, whether it's using a high-low method, there's loads of different ways that you can structure it. But I think microdosing can be a huge unlock for a lot of players, and that's just one of the strategies that you can use, but it's important to be fluid no matter what time of the season it is.
Mark: Mm-hmm. I think this is the probably one of the biggest downfalls of probably that elite amateur athletes, but also being involved in team sports is that, you you're quite constrained in terms of time. Like you only have a finite amount of time across the week to, you know, get your 40 hours of work in at a minimum to get all your sessions done. And I think what you've both kind of touched or kind of made reference to there is the... recovery between stress. So whether that's mental stress, whether that's physical stress, the importance of that recovery between bouts. So that in the following performance, whether that is physical, whether that is mental and work or whether it is emotional that you're trying to get back up, get back to the baseline. Like is there any two things, like practical things people can lean into to even on a daily basis? So where I might look across the week at, okay, how can we kind of recover between sessions? Like let's just say in your shoes as that kind of athlete but also professional, like how would you go about navigating an evening session where you're after doing your nine to five but you also have to travel down the road for training and be expected to be at your best? Like is there tools, you whether it's psychological, whether they're, you know, lifestyle related, is there anything you find yourself leaning into as the athlete?
Liam Coleman: Yeah. Well, like there's the, it's a great question, that's what I was thinking of when you were speaking there. think like, right, there's a non-negotiable stuff, like Patti, you would have said the sleep is a non-negotiable, right? So hopefully you're driving down the road, haven't had enough sleep, but you might not have been because you might have had like a client workshop or something like that, that you didn't get your gym session or whatever you had planned to get in that morning done, you know? So it... Those conditions aren't always controllable, right? But one thing that definitely is controllable and it's something like... I told you and I have learned I think is that there's so many evenings more often than not especially at this time of year right in the middle of the National League you're tired and you're driving down the road it could be two and a half hours down the road to training and you're sore and you have niggles and one of my niggles at the moment derives from that commute right so it's like It's almost like you're frustrated by simply by having to do it. You're sitting in the car. You're frustrated. You're stressed coming out of work. You're coming into training. You're missing a lot of our like because you know, I'm always we always squeeze on time. You're missing a lot of your prep work and you're not getting the same amount of prep work as other lads in the team. So many things there that are potential triggers right to to get us stressed and get that in court levels court is all levels up and that's just a disaster right because you're not even enjoying it. So huge one for me is expectations. Setting clear expectations, like goal setting. From a mental training point of view, should always probably know what you want to get out of a session before you go into it. And that's as simple as literally, like if you're practice at it, it's taking 10 minutes to call off maybe your three goals in your head. I would urge though to write them down. If you have a quick journal, ⁓ Knowing like you probably know in advance as well if it's training on a Tuesday, and I'm sitting there the Monday and I'm looking at my calendar I know I'm gonna be slammed. I'm gonna be slammed getting out the door. I Know what what kind of mental state I'm gonna be in so I set my goals It's like it's get through the session right you know just Finish the session ting it like I I think of it sometimes was like This is more of a fresh air exercise to be honest right which is I understand not everybody's going to be in that position as well based on where you are on your team and where you are in your season. So my point here is to set your expectations. Expectations not set are always expectations not met. And then if you are going down the road frustrated thinking I'm now under pressure to perform. probably not gonna perform and then the road back up or home out of training is even worse. So you're just digging that hole deeper for yourself. It's like I've tortured myself all day, work was shite, all this effort to get down here, have to go to work again tomorrow and training wasn't even enjoyable. Why the hell am I doing this? Whereas if you set your expectation as look, I've had a really tough day, this is my opportunity to get out, do a little bit of exercise. kick a ball, play football, be with the lads I'm friends with, then your whole outlook kinda changes, right? And you haven't put those expectations on yourself and you're able to live with that more. Now I do understand that someone might be saying to you, what about the manager? What about, you know, the mistakes I make? I would say if you're going into the training session in that more of relaxed mindset, you're probably not going to make as many mistakes. And to be honest with you, if your coach can't understand that you're fatigued, you need to speak, you need to then speak to somebody else on your team and your back room coach and, you know, let them know. your state of mind that you're coming into the session in. I think that was a huge thing that changed my outlook on it is not always being aware of where you're at and being aware of what you're able to give. And it's not all, it doesn't always have to be that way. know, from nutrition, like you can, you should be able to manage your energy in a way that you are able to perform like 80 % of the time, but there will be those nights where you do have to just rain in your expectations. And that was. That was big for me.
Mark: And then I suppose like going into the session party, like Liam's kind of outlined, you know, doing that little bit of prep before in terms of setting out expectations. Is it a similar sort of way of, of maybe not tapering back your physical outputs, but like understanding that, okay, I might be able to give as much in the session and maybe shift my focus to other areas that I can maybe excel in the session. So that's, you know, if you don't hit X distance or X speed, that your expectations are still met because you've hit 80 % of that. Is there a sort of KPI you're looking for there on the performance side of things or physical metrics that you're looking at to maybe taper or pull back a wee bit on them evenings where, okay, I know I'm flat out the day prior and I've kind of set my expectations to reflect that.
Paddy: Yeah, well, like, I think Liam covered a lot of, you know, the context around it. Like, for example, with the, let's say movement prep, you always get your movement prep done before every session, but then, you know, an evening strikes up that maybe you don't have as much time. Like in that instance, you say, right, what time am I actually gonna have? Am I gonna have no time? Am I gonna have maybe five minutes of time? Am I gonna have 10 minutes? Okay, well, maybe I have five minutes. what are the kind of non-negotiables that I need to do in that time that's gonna maximize the returns on it. Maybe if, as Liam alluded to, a couple of small little niggles, okay, I'll use some of them rehab exercises that I've been using there to go after that. Rather than maybe prioritizing other areas, we just need to again prioritize. And I suppose this all can maybe boil down to prioritization. We have to be... intentional what we're going after here, if we are on, I suppose, on a bit of a time budget. Like on the field, definitely if someone's coming in like really fatigued and stressed to the max, hitting them with a really intense session or like in particular more upper threshold work, say higher velocity sprinting or max effort sprinting. may not be the wisest thing. Like if you're coming in ⁓ low in energy, you probably won't get the returns on that. And also it will put a bigger stress on the body that maybe you mightn't be able to recover from ⁓ or cause an injury at the greatest extent, I suppose. And again, this is where it's a little bit more difficult in GA because I'm saying a lot of this, but that can go out the window fairly quick. ⁓ with a head coach in charge. But as much as possible, I would say, right, what sort of a time budget are you on? What do you need to prioritise in that time? And then if there is, if you are feeling, let's say, really flat, really fatigued from previous sessions, previous games, maybe stripping back on a little bit of the intensity if possible.
Mark: Brilliant. think that's practical and realistic as well. And probably loops back to, you know, that bit of a check in that you've kind of touched on Liam, whether that isn't on an individual scale in terms of someone just rating their energy, rating other aspects of the wellness, or if it is a team setting and you're filling out a daily wellness prior to your session like that morning, probably highlights the importance of that because then it can be flagged either internally or externally by someone else. and potentially your training could be adjusted based on that. I suppose we've kind of gone in a bit of a chronological order. There was actually somewhat of a structure to this episode. We've looked at potentially front loading the things that give us energy. We've looked at, okay, what are the things we can do maybe between work and training session that evening? Like something that 100 % of athletes that come to us struggle with is switching off after a game, switching off after a training session. like particularly for yourself, Limo, like, you know, going back up the road to Dublin after a fairly intense training session. Like, I'm sure like that takes it's kind of toll mentally. Like, is there anything you lean into to kind of wind down? Is there anything you would advise clients or athletes that you work with to help with that switch off? Like, I know for myself, something that, you know, I push for, for lads is after a game is, you know, factoring in a meal with friends or, you know, factoring in some, a fit more of a flexible meal that... kind of they can couple their downtime with that refuel, you know, so it's a little bit of a switch off. We're still achieving the outcome of refueling, rehydrating, recovering, but we're factoring that bit of enjoyment, that bit of downtime, bit of social connection for yourself. Like, is there anything you would kind of insert in that period or any kind of, I'm to hit you with the tools, tactics or techniques to help with the kind of wind down or mental kind of switch off on the way home or hour after a game or session.
Liam Coleman: Well look, in terms of, I'd be, what you just said there is probably what I'd say Mark, but like I'm, so with, the county you get fed after, right? So I really lean into, I'll spend half an hour upstairs with the lads afterwards eating, right? Even though again, I might be losing 15. 20 minutes sleep on the other end, you know, but like again I think I get more out of sitting down chatting to the lads having food rather than I see some lads some other lads you might be in Dublin or traveling they're out the gap they're straight out the gap to me that I Know I'd be losing I'd be losing some of the most enjoyable parts of training there if I didn't if I didn't sit around have a chat with lads as well as obviously eating the food which is gonna be gonna be good for good for your recovery and That's one thing but I think then as well I'll apply it to... That's a lucky situation to be in to have food ready for you when you get out of the showers. I'm aware in lots of particularly in club settings that's not going to be the case. So I drive up and down to my club training as well ⁓ during the off season and that food is not there which makes it a lot harder. I would say if possible get someone else in the car with you. Like is there somebody you could have you could have the drives with you to train him like there was one other fella in dublin with me We cast down last season and again, that was great. Just just having a chat like you know That social that social connection piece. It makes that it was only it was half the drive It makes half half that drive so much more enjoyable It takes your mind out of training or it gives you the opportunity to talk about training If you weren't happy with x y or z or your own your own perspective, you know, it's great just to get that off your chest and So that's like point two and again I'm aware there'll be some lads who have to travel completely by themselves, a lonely car journey home. Like get yourself a podcast. that's either going to take your mind out of football or out of work the next day. It's trying to shift your focus, Because going back to our balance piece, mentally we can only focus for so long on a certain period of time having it productive. We need to be able to shift our focus. ⁓ And be intentional about that, right? I'm saying have a podcast, right? Everyone's gonna be like, ⁓ yeah, I listen to a podcast every now again. But actually make a plan, like look forward to it. Save your podcast. If you have a podcast that comes out weekly, save it for that car journey. Challenge yourself not to listen to it. You know, that delayed gratification piece, if it comes out on a Monday, challenge yourself to wait for a Monday. That's something that I do. Spoke about off the ball there, I think. I always save the football pod for... the commute on Tuesday night because again with Wexford I get a lift to or I drive with lads to a certain point but then I have to drive the rest of it myself so I'll always save it for that and I enjoy that. And then from another more practical point of view, anybody I ever sit down with and coach I always urge them to keep a journal. it's really important to keep a journal. If you're serious about performing and pushing yourself and stretching yourself, you should be setting goals for all of these sessions. And setting goals is great, but you have to reflect back on your goals. do a little bit of self analysis, get it down on a piece of paper, and then forget about it. If you let that linger, if you sit there for a car journey and you're thinking about it, you're thinking about it, then you're going to bed with it.
Mark: you
Liam Coleman: and then you're bringing it to the next training session. If it's you get home for 10 minutes, you get out of the car, just jot it down on a piece paper and leave it there. I think. that might sound like that's silly but if you get used to doing that you'll get a lot of value from it. I've definitely got a lot of value from it and I know lot of the lads I've coached would get a lot of value from that. It's getting it out of your head onto a piece of paper and parking it there. I think it's really important and it helps you stay kind of in the moment and remove some of that baggage.
Mark: and then paddy anything to add on your end there like i know you've i've heard you talk kind of around the physiological side and stuff like that is renton you you touch on from a physical point of view in terms of kind of winding down or any kind of on top of what leem is touched on
Liam Coleman: Yeah.
Paddy: Yeah, that would probably be the only thing I would add in there, around kind of controlling the breath and down regulating a little bit. Again, it depends on the person. Some people can maybe down regulate quicker. can just, you know, that more relaxed player who can just switch off after training, just kind of happy-go-lucky sort of player. Whereas then you might have the player who's a little bit more highly strong and... maybe takes a little bit longer to switch off, whether they're maybe overthinking the session, whether they're analyzing it, et cetera. know, something like a little bit of breath work I find can be really useful where you're focusing on a longer exhale ⁓ in particular. So if it's four seconds in and a six seconds out, or as you mentioned, the physiological side, which is just a double inhale and a long exhale. So something like that can be really, really useful if you are sitting in the car. by yourself and you're on that journey home, like two minutes of that can help kind of just help you to relax there on that and definitely speed up that recovery process because if we're not in that ⁓ parasympathetic state or that relaxed state, then the food we're consuming, the sleep that we're gonna get is actually gonna or is not have as much benefit there compared to if we're in that relaxed state. we can absorb the nutrients better. I'm sure, you know, Mark can kind of test them into that too. And then also our sleep is gonna be a lot better as well as a by-product. So it has ⁓ a pretty nice ⁓ knock-on effect there.
Mark: Lovely looking at. Yeah, yeah.
Liam Coleman: I'll just jump in with one other thing that I should have mentioned as well. It's, you kind of, you reminded me there, Paddy, of it. It's like, if you are, do find yourself by yourself, right? And you know you're gonna be by yourself a lot after trainings or after matches. work on your self talk because you can really lose the run of yourself. If you have an hour of talking to yourself, be careful what you say to yourself because you're always listening. ⁓ Sometimes I even find it myself, if I'm ever really negative in my self analysis, I'd say if somebody else was telling me this, what would I say to them? I tell them to go take a hike. I think it's been really, really important. I'm really, really conscious of that. So practical things to help you with yourself talk is, you know, first of all, always being aware of your purpose. So if you're, if you're part of the panel on your training, really, really hard to get on a panel, what is your, like, you know, it's really important to know why you're doing it. So if I'm doing it because I've always dreamt of playing for my county, or I've always, I really, really want to win a championship with my club, or I just really, really want to play, what is your purpose? So then you can always relate your efforts back to your purpose. So, you know, I've tonight was a really tough session and it probably didn't go as well both, you know Reframed that right and say like tonight was hard yards. I put a lot of energy in the bank there I'm we're moving towards that purpose, you know that championship I know I know it's there and it's nights like this that will help us get there or help me get there Do know I'm learning from this? I will you know tonight I didn't do X Y & Z right That's my focus for Thursday night. Really like be aware and be really intentional with that self talk. I think a really helpful way to direct that self talk is knowing your purpose, knowing why you're doing what you're doing. If you ever find yourself in autopilot and you are deeply questioning why the hell am I doing this? I think then that's when you need to have a conversation with somebody, right? Bounce this up because sometimes we can't figure out our problems by ourselves. ⁓ Particularly. self conflicting ones like that where it might be a sport that you love but you're not enjoying it. You deliberating that over and over and over again is not going to help you figure out the answer. Having a chat with somebody about it definitely is. So be aware of your purpose. think about yourself talk, work on yourself talk and if you are finding yourself with lot of self conflicting thoughts that's going to be really bad for your energy and I think it's again from lads of culture it's usually the catalyst for...
Mark: you
Liam Coleman: burnout right so and if you are finding yourself very conflicted I would say you're probably not going to figure out yourself confiding people you know confiding people you trust about that difficult difficult conversation to breach obviously but that would be that would be a final thing I'd say
Mark: Brilliant stuff. Now appreciate that additional bit of value Nimo because I think like it is an accumulative thing. Like it's not a one hard day or one long journey home. It's, you know, session after session, day after day. So I think there's plenty of tools and practical value there. And I think there'll be a lot of lads relieved knowing that they can sigh the whole way home after training session, no one that's going to support their recovery and downtime. So look, I think we'll probably wrap things up there. ⁓
Liam Coleman: Yeah.
Paddy: haha There you go, lad.
Mark: Bit of a different episode as we spoke about, but I think hopefully over last 40-45 minutes you're able to take a singer or two from one of the three of us anyways. I know I took a lot from Liam anyways. But look, we'll park it there. Liam, we appreciate your time. We'll hopefully get you back again at some stage to do a roundtable part two, maybe in the middle of the end season or towards the end of the end season, moving towards the off season. So look, we appreciate if you've listened this far.
Paddy: Yeah, yeah, same with me.
Mark: myself and Paddy will be back at the same time next week. So we'll chat to you then. All the best.
Liam Coleman: Thanks lads, thanks for having me.
Paddy: Tata ya zem.
Paddy: That's right.
Liam Coleman: Yes, no problem. Thanks for having me again lad. It's mad it's been two years. I actually forgot Mark you weren't on it the last time so there you are. ⁓ So yeah quickly look my name is Liam Coleman I am from Wexford. I had the pleasure of living with Mark and Paddy back in DCU for a while and we were learning our trade I suppose. Since then I studied psychology ⁓ and since then I suppose I've pursued psychology in the kind of from an
Mark: I
Paddy: I was holding the fort. Don't worry about it. Haha.
Liam Coleman: organizational point of view. that's basically behavioral psychology applied to workplace, which was actually the of the birthplace for sports psychology. everything, know, signs that delved into the way we behave, our habits and how we can, I suppose, manipulate those habits and behaviors to help us perform. I mostly look at the work side of things and how we can perform at work and interact with our colleagues at work. but it's very very applicable to the sports side of things as well which is I suppose I see because I also played lot of sport and have a lot of interest in sports so I've been look played Gaelic football, ⁓ way to Wexford for the last six seasons. I was captain for, for, ⁓ for three of those seasons. So I suppose I've, I've, I've really enjoyed being able to apply kind of what I studied, what I work in, in, in, into, into sport as well. And I suppose try B about it, not just talk about it. So like, there's no, there's no silver bullet. There's just like by no means an expert, but, look, I'm fascinated by all, by, by our brain, how we can, how we can learn.
Mark: you
Liam Coleman: about ourselves and I suppose as well which is what really good today to be here with Paddy and Mark like with you guys the like nutritionist and a strength and conditioning coach to kind of the holistic approach towards towards performance you know like how how they all integrate because to anyone listening who's part of team sports and you're there with a manager, an S &C coach, you might have a nutritionist, you're getting information from all angles, as well as all the media we consume. If you're listening to this, you're consuming this media, but there's lots of stuff out there and it's all about finding what works for you and kind of developing a strategy to apply that and I suppose that's kind of what we'll be talking about today. So that's a long-winded introduction to myself. Thanks for having me and looking forward to having a chat about this stuff as always
Mark: lovely now we appreciate the instruction party of the whole day the instruction on your end i think we'll we'll okay now it's it's good to get that little bit of of back in the way sleep over clues it for the highlights where you're coming from you know both the professional set in terms of where you work ⁓ brought up from that performance piece to and i think being able to release atop of today energy management to both sides the coin is is really important because
Paddy: Nah, I think I'm all good. I've not knocked the top of the head anyway.
Mark: I would imagine that 99 % of our listeners aren't professional athletes, so they will be trying to balance a professional life with an amateur sport, whether that's inter-caring, whether that's club level. So I think it's nice to be able to have those two different viewpoints. just from the outset, energy management is maybe something that is new to some people. But if you're to... define it or if you were to describe what energy management is across sport and performance, across professional life, what does it look like or what do you mean?
Liam Coleman: ⁓ I think the best way I can describe it and it might make it more comprehensible for people who haven't heard of it before is around, it's almost like, so I think there's a statement around like particularly in the GAA world where you might have a league amateur athlete, so you know, a lot of the time, We don't, they don't struggle because of a lack of effort. We all put unbelievable effort into our craft, but we struggle because of our lack of available energy. You could be doing all the right things in terms of nutrition. You could be doing all the right things in terms of your physical training. But then you could also be doing all the right things for your job. You could be doing all the right things for your relationships, for your family, for your friends. And then all of a sudden you're doing all the right things for everybody except yourself. So it's almost like you're going to and then you you expect to be able to perform at a high level On a Tuesday night a Thursday night and then at the weekend on a Saturday or a Sunday perform at a high level Monday through Friday or whatever your job is and you know be that person for everybody and it's almost like you're going to the petrol pump and There's no petrol in the pump to fill up your car. You're just running on fumes to be honest like you're you know, your glass is always empty So it's always I like to think of like what's you know when you're going you're going to take a drink of if your glass is constantly empty, you're not going to be able to refuel properly. I'm not talking about specifically just water here, like hydration, it's more the spiritual, the mental, the emotional energy that we need as well to be able to perform physiologically and...
Mark: you
Liam Coleman: like if you look at like the neuropsychology of all of that it's it's there's lots of evidence there as well to suggest around you know when we're when we're low on energy when we're high on stress or cortisol levels are high it's very very difficult to be able to perform so it's really really always being conscious of how we're feeling you know your current training load what's ahead of you what's to what's what are you just put in the bank what's behind you and then having little strategies tips plans in place to navigate that because look, think we'll all agree it's really, really difficult, like I said, to be all things to everybody all at once. energy management is the strategy to kind of navigate that. And it's really just knitting all things together, like all the work that you guys do from a physiological point of view and kind of behaviorally how can we plan our week, our month, our season to help that.
Mark: Hmm like from from my point of view like I would class it as a relatively new area that athletes have probably started paying a bit more attention to and Like I'll kind of pass it to both yourself Patti and Liam like as you know the elites of our kind of elite amateurs In terms of Gaelic football like is it something you both have always considered? You know Liam is it something that maybe you started paying a bit more attention to? given your area of expertise, given your background, or is it just in recent years? And Patti, is it similar enough with you? Like, is it something that you've always kind of paid attention to, or is it something that you've paid maybe more attention to when you went into an inter-county setup, or what did, you know, energy management look like for yourself?
Liam Coleman: Yeah, I think so. I'd even be able to probably recall conversations we might have been having when we were in college around football. You knew this thing existed because it's kind of logical to know when you're struggling or your form isn't good. And you're always able to, I find, always able to connect to times in life when... school was going well, might have been school was going well, or times in life when college was going well, football usually seemed to be going well and you found yourself in that kind of positive cycle and when you when you reflect back on that that was probably because you felt you had the energy and then more often than not the other one was your form was bad, your body wasn't right, you were struggling with exams, you were struggling with deadlines at work and then you're seeing I suppose the negative side when you might have neglected that energy and you probably you didn't know it was called energy management or you don't even have to call it energy management. It's just like it's more being in tune with how you're feeling and what's going on and what kind of system you find yourself in life at that time. So I think like energy management was it is there for everybody. It's just our balance, you know, and It's always good to name these things because when you don't name it, you don't really know what's going on. And it makes it lot easier to be logical and put something in place to counteract it and navigate it. Like we would have said at the of the call. So that's kind of your experience of it. And I think it's important to call that out because it's very easy to talk about these things as concepts or as theories or as like, what is energy management, know? But I think it's more so just the way we...
Mark: you
Liam Coleman: The way we feel, like if you do a quick audit and you are honest with yourself and your energy at a 10, you know, it's always a good place to start to kind of check in with yourself. But yeah, look, it's not just like Mark, you definitely experienced it too. it's not even this thing isn't even just for athletes. mean, like I said, at work, it's something like what executives you talk about a lot because they have, you know, a lot of things. They're extremely busy people as well. So it's for all people, you know, and it's just making sure you have the right amount of energy to perform.
Mark: Yeah, like I think in my world ⁓ of nutrition, when we talk about, you know, energy and energy available to us, ⁓ sometimes when there's low energy, there's certain signs and symptoms that, you know, I might look out for as a practitioner in athletes in terms of performance, in terms of their day to day living. Like in terms of when we talk about maybe mental energy or maybe emotional energy or cognitive energy, when that is low, like you've kind of, and Patti's kind of touched on kind of burnout, like are there kind of signs, symptoms that, you know, we can look out for as a professional, as an athlete, so that we can kind of, you know, ⁓ check in with ourselves, know where we're at, monitor our energy, so that it's not a case of, you you keep digging, you keep digging, you keep digging, and your energy's going down and down. Is there anything you would, you know, advise clients or yourself, look out for as an athlete on a day-to-day or weekly basis? in terms of your own energy management.
Liam Coleman: Yeah for sure like look obviously the where you want to avoid is injury right that's that's generally the kind of worst case scenario for for this type of burnout obviously you know you can pick up soft tissue and yet but it's not even that like you know i've had a lot of like ⁓ broken collar bones, bad ankles, broken ankle. You say that kind of stuff was unlucky, but when you actually do, you go and analyse your patterns of behaviour coming into periods like that, you're probably finding yourself very stretched and you leave yourself susceptible to injuries. I'm sure you guys, a nutrition and a strength and conditioning point of view, will back that up. If you're mentally switched off or you're there in body, not in mind, you are leaving yourself open to that. to those type of injuries as well. So like that's kind of your worst case scenario. So to your question, like you don't want to get there. You don't you don't want the consequence to happen before like before you stop it. So I think there's there's lots of things we can be looking at ⁓ and a proactive from a proactive point of view. ⁓ And the first one is definitely just a bit of self reflection. Sit down, look at your day, look at your week, you know.
Mark: Hmm.
Liam Coleman: Rate that rate your as you do that rate that energy out of 10. How like how are you? You know, sometimes it might not even be that i'm really really busy. It might just be your mood is low Do know why you're actually finding yourself? You know, you're finding yourself in a period it could be the off season and you don't have that structure training to kind of hold you accountable and your mood is your mood is low like A part of a part of energy management right is oscillation. So kind of being strategic. We have to actually push ourselves to get energy, too You know, like, I'm, I'm probably... This is one of my down points and I was like when you guys were trying to get me I was saying like I'm in a very busy period at the moment and sometimes I'll prioritize training in the morning over an extra hour sleep because I know I have a busy morning at work right and I will show up better to work having done an hour in the gym rather than having an hour sleep. Now I have to pay that sleep back right because ultimately you have to perform and this is the whole thing about it's not like you know people always say work-life balance or get that balanced It's not really balance, it's more about being aware of what gives me energy or what gives you energy and when do you need your energy for and then when can you rest. So the important part then is, I don't always do this now and sometimes I have to work on this, is making sure I get that sleep back because obviously it's probably the most important part of replenishing and recovering. But then it's like, when am I an athlete? When am I a professional? When am I just like a friend or a boyfriend? And it's always being aware of who you are, who you want to be at a certain period of time and then planning for it. So I think having that constant checking in with yourself is really, important. You can also make loads of signs out there from our environment that we can tell as well. mean, if you're constantly getting slack from people in your life around not being around or, you know, not being able to find the time, that means you're probably in a poor system where you're constantly reacting and chasing. Like, that's another one that I find, just speaking from my own personal experience here, is that, you know, just like the whole time. If you're constantly saying, don't have time, I don't have time, I don't have time, you probably need to check in with yourself because, everyone's day is the same length. So ⁓ it's either you might need to drop something to know look at your list of look at your to-do list like you know it's in business a lot it's your it's your not to-do list is more important than your to-do list to know so what can you drop out if that's from a like a training point of view is it just having a touch in with your s &c coach and saying look this is my situation i know we're supposed to be doing this but what could i do instead or what could i drop out because we all have different needs and then again if you're the person who's finding yourself with not a lot to do right your energy could be equally as low because we need that routine so then it's like right that's again where having a coach is really really really really handy because you can talk about this kind of stuff you know because it might be it might seem farcical to say that I feel wrecked I feel really tired I have no energy but I'm doing nothing So you need that routine to be able to give ourselves energy and kind of stretch ourselves because you need that. Like just think of like the optimal point of performance like a York Stoddson law where if your activity levels are really low, your performance levels are probably going to be low. And then there's a sweet point, there's a sweet spot there where your activity levels are high, your performance levels are right. You can obviously go too high with your activity levels and then we start to drop off again on our performance level. So it's trying to maintain that sweet spot and like try not to let it get to an injury or try not to let it get to a stage where you're so bored that you're kind of falling out of love with the game or whatever you're trying to do. And I think what you can look out for is definitely do a lot of self-check-ins, rate your energy. Journaling is really, great to kind of jot down your thoughts, see what you're thinking, rationalize them. because we all have a lot of irrational thoughts when we get into that fight or flight kind of zone. ⁓ And just work on it, it's a skill, you know? And if you just float by like anything and you're not intentional about it, you could go through six months, a year of thinking you're training right and not actually getting any, as much as you should be out of it. I don't know if that answers your question, Mark, I think like there are just some of the things from my own experience anyway that I would always be looking out for.
Mark: you Yeah, like I think you've covered a lot there that's, know, be like, I'm smiling away when you're talking about different things there, because I can really relate to some of those. You know, people listen can relate to, you know, a lot of a lot of what you've covered there. Like I think in terms of identifying like what gives us energy, like I think that's really important. And, know, the individuality in that is quite key. Like you get your gym session, you know, you're kind of short ending your sleep to get that gym session in because you know. the outcome of getting that session in before a busy day is worth it and you'll get that rest back further down the line. What I typically find when I'm kinda at my busiest, when I'm saying yes to everything and I don't have enough time for myself and the things that give me energy, like them busy periods when I need those things to fill my cup up is when I give the least amount of time to them things and it's nearly like this kinda cycle over and over again. Like what I, what I sometimes, preach to clients, like it's something I don't do myself. You know, in terms of identifying and you kind of touched on it there, like what does good look like from a nutrition point of view, like when things are busiest. So in that kind of case, is it something similar? Like from, you know, filling your cup up, like identifying what gives me energy and kind of factoring the thing in. Is it a case of just, you know, stripping back kind of expectations around factoring those things in? it instead of getting an hour gym session in?
Liam Coleman: Hmm.
Mark: It's a 20 minute session instead of, you know, other bits and pieces. Like is it kind of reshaping what it actually looks like and changing the expectations but still factoring in or does it need to be set a certain way the whole time or how would you kind of approach that sort of situation?
Liam Coleman: ⁓ I think it's like it's definitely You can't go off and you do your like especially for private team sport or your you know You have a coach you can't go off and completely do your own thing and like, Paddy, it'd good to get your take here, especially in terms of the physical training. But I do think it's very important to find a routine that works for you. Like, you know, find sessions that you're trying to incorporate. Like, I see you guys talking about, like, even like that microdosing stuff. Like, if you're busy, can you fit in part of your gym session on a Monday, part of your gym session on a Tuesday, part of your gym session on a Wednesday? You know, if you get energy from doing physical exercise, right, that's something you should be thinking of. I think that and like there's a especially if you're part of a team sport a coach can't a coach can't you know alter or especially in an amateur team sport change their coaching to meet every individual so it's like the onus is very much on you it's your responsibility to to to go and seek information and put that plan in place Mark and then but I
Paddy: you
Liam Coleman: again trying to go back to your question having a routine is vital right for for energy because we are habitual creatures we like we like a set routine you know so the real tangible stuff like get your wake time and get your sleep time locked down. I think that's a really good place to start because sleep is probably the most important part in terms of making sure we have enough energy is making sure we have enough sleep. So try to have a consistent sleep and wake time and then fit your routine around that. ⁓ again, I'd be very big on getting your, and research would also be big on the benefits of doing this kind of stuff earlier in your day. Like, and that was a huge switch for me is when I started training in the morning before work. It meant that the nights I'm not training, like with the team, I have free, you know, I have free to do the other important stuff in life that gives us energy. Like, you know, meeting friends or just simply having a bit of time for yourself, which is... can be very difficult. And Patty, I'm sure you'll have lots of kind of, and you probably want to jump in here around that training, how that week looks like from a training point of view.
Paddy: Hmm. I think, think like that's probably the big area that, you know, a lot of athletes can fall down and, know, while it's very hard to give an overall just one size fits all approach here on this, like if you do get your structure enough, you're training wrong. can have quite detrimental effects on your performance. As you alluded to some of the consequences. I suppose like the way that I as an overall ⁓ point of view, look at it, is more so being fluid with it because the demands and the schedule in season for a lot of athletes is ever changing. Some weeks you're on the pitch Wednesday, Friday, some weeks you're on the pitch Tuesday, Tuesday, Thursday. So while I think routine is crucial around the areas regarding what... what ⁓ you mentioned, your daily habits, et cetera, your wake time, your sleep time, that you should be ⁓ non-negotiables. I think from a training point of view, it's important to be fluid with it and have a couple of, ⁓ I suppose, different structures that you can plug in based on the week's demands. ⁓ There's loads of different ways that we can structure training, like you would have alluded to, I'm really... ⁓ big on ⁓ micro dosing our training across the week and kind of using short or more frequent bouts. And that can be a really useful strategy for someone who's maybe ⁓ struggling for energy and kind of, you know, doesn't want to dedicate a big chunk of time on a Monday and kind of really fry themselves on that day. They like more frequent bouts, but then for someone else, you know, they actually might prefer to do that bigger, longer gym session. So I think it's important to meet the individual where they're at. ⁓ And as you alluded to, each week is different, each person is different. And from my aspect, you can meet a lot of individuals there. While the team coach may not be able to structure, have 30 different sessions going on, there's small, I suppose, nuances that I can include, whether it's going with a hybrid approach, a little bit of microdosing, a little bit of traditional. whether it's full microdosing, whether it's using a high-low method, there's loads of different ways that you can structure it. But I think microdosing can be a huge unlock for a lot of players, and that's just one of the strategies that you can use, but it's important to be fluid no matter what time of the season it is.
Mark: Mm-hmm. I think this is the probably one of the biggest downfalls of probably that elite amateur athletes, but also being involved in team sports is that, you you're quite constrained in terms of time. Like you only have a finite amount of time across the week to, you know, get your 40 hours of work in at a minimum to get all your sessions done. And I think what you've both kind of touched or kind of made reference to there is the... recovery between stress. So whether that's mental stress, whether that's physical stress, the importance of that recovery between bouts. So that in the following performance, whether that is physical, whether that is mental and work or whether it is emotional that you're trying to get back up, get back to the baseline. Like is there any two things, like practical things people can lean into to even on a daily basis? So where I might look across the week at, okay, how can we kind of recover between sessions? Like let's just say in your shoes as that kind of athlete but also professional, like how would you go about navigating an evening session where you're after doing your nine to five but you also have to travel down the road for training and be expected to be at your best? Like is there tools, you whether it's psychological, whether they're, you know, lifestyle related, is there anything you find yourself leaning into as the athlete?
Liam Coleman: Yeah. Well, like there's the, it's a great question, that's what I was thinking of when you were speaking there. think like, right, there's a non-negotiable stuff, like Patti, you would have said the sleep is a non-negotiable, right? So hopefully you're driving down the road, haven't had enough sleep, but you might not have been because you might have had like a client workshop or something like that, that you didn't get your gym session or whatever you had planned to get in that morning done, you know? So it... Those conditions aren't always controllable, right? But one thing that definitely is controllable and it's something like... I told you and I have learned I think is that there's so many evenings more often than not especially at this time of year right in the middle of the National League you're tired and you're driving down the road it could be two and a half hours down the road to training and you're sore and you have niggles and one of my niggles at the moment derives from that commute right so it's like It's almost like you're frustrated by simply by having to do it. You're sitting in the car. You're frustrated. You're stressed coming out of work. You're coming into training. You're missing a lot of our like because you know, I'm always we always squeeze on time. You're missing a lot of your prep work and you're not getting the same amount of prep work as other lads in the team. So many things there that are potential triggers right to to get us stressed and get that in court levels court is all levels up and that's just a disaster right because you're not even enjoying it. So huge one for me is expectations. Setting clear expectations, like goal setting. From a mental training point of view, should always probably know what you want to get out of a session before you go into it. And that's as simple as literally, like if you're practice at it, it's taking 10 minutes to call off maybe your three goals in your head. I would urge though to write them down. If you have a quick journal, ⁓ Knowing like you probably know in advance as well if it's training on a Tuesday, and I'm sitting there the Monday and I'm looking at my calendar I know I'm gonna be slammed. I'm gonna be slammed getting out the door. I Know what what kind of mental state I'm gonna be in so I set my goals It's like it's get through the session right you know just Finish the session ting it like I I think of it sometimes was like This is more of a fresh air exercise to be honest right which is I understand not everybody's going to be in that position as well based on where you are on your team and where you are in your season. So my point here is to set your expectations. Expectations not set are always expectations not met. And then if you are going down the road frustrated thinking I'm now under pressure to perform. probably not gonna perform and then the road back up or home out of training is even worse. So you're just digging that hole deeper for yourself. It's like I've tortured myself all day, work was shite, all this effort to get down here, have to go to work again tomorrow and training wasn't even enjoyable. Why the hell am I doing this? Whereas if you set your expectation as look, I've had a really tough day, this is my opportunity to get out, do a little bit of exercise. kick a ball, play football, be with the lads I'm friends with, then your whole outlook kinda changes, right? And you haven't put those expectations on yourself and you're able to live with that more. Now I do understand that someone might be saying to you, what about the manager? What about, you know, the mistakes I make? I would say if you're going into the training session in that more of relaxed mindset, you're probably not going to make as many mistakes. And to be honest with you, if your coach can't understand that you're fatigued, you need to speak, you need to then speak to somebody else on your team and your back room coach and, you know, let them know. your state of mind that you're coming into the session in. I think that was a huge thing that changed my outlook on it is not always being aware of where you're at and being aware of what you're able to give. And it's not all, it doesn't always have to be that way. know, from nutrition, like you can, you should be able to manage your energy in a way that you are able to perform like 80 % of the time, but there will be those nights where you do have to just rain in your expectations. And that was. That was big for me.
Mark: And then I suppose like going into the session party, like Liam's kind of outlined, you know, doing that little bit of prep before in terms of setting out expectations. Is it a similar sort of way of, of maybe not tapering back your physical outputs, but like understanding that, okay, I might be able to give as much in the session and maybe shift my focus to other areas that I can maybe excel in the session. So that's, you know, if you don't hit X distance or X speed, that your expectations are still met because you've hit 80 % of that. Is there a sort of KPI you're looking for there on the performance side of things or physical metrics that you're looking at to maybe taper or pull back a wee bit on them evenings where, okay, I know I'm flat out the day prior and I've kind of set my expectations to reflect that.
Paddy: Yeah, well, like, I think Liam covered a lot of, you know, the context around it. Like, for example, with the, let's say movement prep, you always get your movement prep done before every session, but then, you know, an evening strikes up that maybe you don't have as much time. Like in that instance, you say, right, what time am I actually gonna have? Am I gonna have no time? Am I gonna have maybe five minutes of time? Am I gonna have 10 minutes? Okay, well, maybe I have five minutes. what are the kind of non-negotiables that I need to do in that time that's gonna maximize the returns on it. Maybe if, as Liam alluded to, a couple of small little niggles, okay, I'll use some of them rehab exercises that I've been using there to go after that. Rather than maybe prioritizing other areas, we just need to again prioritize. And I suppose this all can maybe boil down to prioritization. We have to be... intentional what we're going after here, if we are on, I suppose, on a bit of a time budget. Like on the field, definitely if someone's coming in like really fatigued and stressed to the max, hitting them with a really intense session or like in particular more upper threshold work, say higher velocity sprinting or max effort sprinting. may not be the wisest thing. Like if you're coming in ⁓ low in energy, you probably won't get the returns on that. And also it will put a bigger stress on the body that maybe you mightn't be able to recover from ⁓ or cause an injury at the greatest extent, I suppose. And again, this is where it's a little bit more difficult in GA because I'm saying a lot of this, but that can go out the window fairly quick. ⁓ with a head coach in charge. But as much as possible, I would say, right, what sort of a time budget are you on? What do you need to prioritise in that time? And then if there is, if you are feeling, let's say, really flat, really fatigued from previous sessions, previous games, maybe stripping back on a little bit of the intensity if possible.
Mark: Brilliant. think that's practical and realistic as well. And probably loops back to, you know, that bit of a check in that you've kind of touched on Liam, whether that isn't on an individual scale in terms of someone just rating their energy, rating other aspects of the wellness, or if it is a team setting and you're filling out a daily wellness prior to your session like that morning, probably highlights the importance of that because then it can be flagged either internally or externally by someone else. and potentially your training could be adjusted based on that. I suppose we've kind of gone in a bit of a chronological order. There was actually somewhat of a structure to this episode. We've looked at potentially front loading the things that give us energy. We've looked at, okay, what are the things we can do maybe between work and training session that evening? Like something that 100 % of athletes that come to us struggle with is switching off after a game, switching off after a training session. like particularly for yourself, Limo, like, you know, going back up the road to Dublin after a fairly intense training session. Like, I'm sure like that takes it's kind of toll mentally. Like, is there anything you lean into to kind of wind down? Is there anything you would advise clients or athletes that you work with to help with that switch off? Like, I know for myself, something that, you know, I push for, for lads is after a game is, you know, factoring in a meal with friends or, you know, factoring in some, a fit more of a flexible meal that... kind of they can couple their downtime with that refuel, you know, so it's a little bit of a switch off. We're still achieving the outcome of refueling, rehydrating, recovering, but we're factoring that bit of enjoyment, that bit of downtime, bit of social connection for yourself. Like, is there anything you would kind of insert in that period or any kind of, I'm to hit you with the tools, tactics or techniques to help with the kind of wind down or mental kind of switch off on the way home or hour after a game or session.
Liam Coleman: Well look, in terms of, I'd be, what you just said there is probably what I'd say Mark, but like I'm, so with, the county you get fed after, right? So I really lean into, I'll spend half an hour upstairs with the lads afterwards eating, right? Even though again, I might be losing 15. 20 minutes sleep on the other end, you know, but like again I think I get more out of sitting down chatting to the lads having food rather than I see some lads some other lads you might be in Dublin or traveling they're out the gap they're straight out the gap to me that I Know I'd be losing I'd be losing some of the most enjoyable parts of training there if I didn't if I didn't sit around have a chat with lads as well as obviously eating the food which is gonna be gonna be good for good for your recovery and That's one thing but I think then as well I'll apply it to... That's a lucky situation to be in to have food ready for you when you get out of the showers. I'm aware in lots of particularly in club settings that's not going to be the case. So I drive up and down to my club training as well ⁓ during the off season and that food is not there which makes it a lot harder. I would say if possible get someone else in the car with you. Like is there somebody you could have you could have the drives with you to train him like there was one other fella in dublin with me We cast down last season and again, that was great. Just just having a chat like you know That social that social connection piece. It makes that it was only it was half the drive It makes half half that drive so much more enjoyable It takes your mind out of training or it gives you the opportunity to talk about training If you weren't happy with x y or z or your own your own perspective, you know, it's great just to get that off your chest and So that's like point two and again I'm aware there'll be some lads who have to travel completely by themselves, a lonely car journey home. Like get yourself a podcast. that's either going to take your mind out of football or out of work the next day. It's trying to shift your focus, Because going back to our balance piece, mentally we can only focus for so long on a certain period of time having it productive. We need to be able to shift our focus. ⁓ And be intentional about that, right? I'm saying have a podcast, right? Everyone's gonna be like, ⁓ yeah, I listen to a podcast every now again. But actually make a plan, like look forward to it. Save your podcast. If you have a podcast that comes out weekly, save it for that car journey. Challenge yourself not to listen to it. You know, that delayed gratification piece, if it comes out on a Monday, challenge yourself to wait for a Monday. That's something that I do. Spoke about off the ball there, I think. I always save the football pod for... the commute on Tuesday night because again with Wexford I get a lift to or I drive with lads to a certain point but then I have to drive the rest of it myself so I'll always save it for that and I enjoy that. And then from another more practical point of view, anybody I ever sit down with and coach I always urge them to keep a journal. it's really important to keep a journal. If you're serious about performing and pushing yourself and stretching yourself, you should be setting goals for all of these sessions. And setting goals is great, but you have to reflect back on your goals. do a little bit of self analysis, get it down on a piece of paper, and then forget about it. If you let that linger, if you sit there for a car journey and you're thinking about it, you're thinking about it, then you're going to bed with it.
Mark: you
Liam Coleman: and then you're bringing it to the next training session. If it's you get home for 10 minutes, you get out of the car, just jot it down on a piece paper and leave it there. I think. that might sound like that's silly but if you get used to doing that you'll get a lot of value from it. I've definitely got a lot of value from it and I know lot of the lads I've coached would get a lot of value from that. It's getting it out of your head onto a piece of paper and parking it there. I think it's really important and it helps you stay kind of in the moment and remove some of that baggage.
Mark: and then paddy anything to add on your end there like i know you've i've heard you talk kind of around the physiological side and stuff like that is renton you you touch on from a physical point of view in terms of kind of winding down or any kind of on top of what leem is touched on
Liam Coleman: Yeah.
Paddy: Yeah, that would probably be the only thing I would add in there, around kind of controlling the breath and down regulating a little bit. Again, it depends on the person. Some people can maybe down regulate quicker. can just, you know, that more relaxed player who can just switch off after training, just kind of happy-go-lucky sort of player. Whereas then you might have the player who's a little bit more highly strong and... maybe takes a little bit longer to switch off, whether they're maybe overthinking the session, whether they're analyzing it, et cetera. know, something like a little bit of breath work I find can be really useful where you're focusing on a longer exhale ⁓ in particular. So if it's four seconds in and a six seconds out, or as you mentioned, the physiological side, which is just a double inhale and a long exhale. So something like that can be really, really useful if you are sitting in the car. by yourself and you're on that journey home, like two minutes of that can help kind of just help you to relax there on that and definitely speed up that recovery process because if we're not in that ⁓ parasympathetic state or that relaxed state, then the food we're consuming, the sleep that we're gonna get is actually gonna or is not have as much benefit there compared to if we're in that relaxed state. we can absorb the nutrients better. I'm sure, you know, Mark can kind of test them into that too. And then also our sleep is gonna be a lot better as well as a by-product. So it has ⁓ a pretty nice ⁓ knock-on effect there.
Mark: Lovely looking at. Yeah, yeah.
Liam Coleman: I'll just jump in with one other thing that I should have mentioned as well. It's, you kind of, you reminded me there, Paddy, of it. It's like, if you are, do find yourself by yourself, right? And you know you're gonna be by yourself a lot after trainings or after matches. work on your self talk because you can really lose the run of yourself. If you have an hour of talking to yourself, be careful what you say to yourself because you're always listening. ⁓ Sometimes I even find it myself, if I'm ever really negative in my self analysis, I'd say if somebody else was telling me this, what would I say to them? I tell them to go take a hike. I think it's been really, really important. I'm really, really conscious of that. So practical things to help you with yourself talk is, you know, first of all, always being aware of your purpose. So if you're, if you're part of the panel on your training, really, really hard to get on a panel, what is your, like, you know, it's really important to know why you're doing it. So if I'm doing it because I've always dreamt of playing for my county, or I've always, I really, really want to win a championship with my club, or I just really, really want to play, what is your purpose? So then you can always relate your efforts back to your purpose. So, you know, I've tonight was a really tough session and it probably didn't go as well both, you know Reframed that right and say like tonight was hard yards. I put a lot of energy in the bank there I'm we're moving towards that purpose, you know that championship I know I know it's there and it's nights like this that will help us get there or help me get there Do know I'm learning from this? I will you know tonight I didn't do X Y & Z right That's my focus for Thursday night. Really like be aware and be really intentional with that self talk. I think a really helpful way to direct that self talk is knowing your purpose, knowing why you're doing what you're doing. If you ever find yourself in autopilot and you are deeply questioning why the hell am I doing this? I think then that's when you need to have a conversation with somebody, right? Bounce this up because sometimes we can't figure out our problems by ourselves. ⁓ Particularly. self conflicting ones like that where it might be a sport that you love but you're not enjoying it. You deliberating that over and over and over again is not going to help you figure out the answer. Having a chat with somebody about it definitely is. So be aware of your purpose. think about yourself talk, work on yourself talk and if you are finding yourself with lot of self conflicting thoughts that's going to be really bad for your energy and I think it's again from lads of culture it's usually the catalyst for...
Mark: you
Liam Coleman: burnout right so and if you are finding yourself very conflicted I would say you're probably not going to figure out yourself confiding people you know confiding people you trust about that difficult difficult conversation to breach obviously but that would be that would be a final thing I'd say
Mark: Brilliant stuff. Now appreciate that additional bit of value Nimo because I think like it is an accumulative thing. Like it's not a one hard day or one long journey home. It's, you know, session after session, day after day. So I think there's plenty of tools and practical value there. And I think there'll be a lot of lads relieved knowing that they can sigh the whole way home after training session, no one that's going to support their recovery and downtime. So look, I think we'll probably wrap things up there. ⁓
Liam Coleman: Yeah.
Paddy: haha There you go, lad.
Mark: Bit of a different episode as we spoke about, but I think hopefully over last 40-45 minutes you're able to take a singer or two from one of the three of us anyways. I know I took a lot from Liam anyways. But look, we'll park it there. Liam, we appreciate your time. We'll hopefully get you back again at some stage to do a roundtable part two, maybe in the middle of the end season or towards the end of the end season, moving towards the off season. So look, we appreciate if you've listened this far.
Paddy: Yeah, yeah, same with me.
Mark: myself and Paddy will be back at the same time next week. So we'll chat to you then. All the best.
Liam Coleman: Thanks lads, thanks for having me.
Paddy: Tata ya zem.
