00:00:00
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00:01:02
Speaker 2: We will see you to.
00:01:14
Speaker 1: The Garner.
00:01:17
Speaker 2: Welcome to hang out. Today is Friday, June twenty fifth. Peter Apple is in Omaha. I am not in Omaha's but you know, we had a great conversation with Solidad O'Brien that we are so excited to bring you. Solidad O'Brien correspondent for Real Sports with Brian Gumbel on HBO. She did about a ten to fifteen minute feature on Big League Advance and if you have HBO HBO Max. I would watch that. That's Michael Swimmer and his deal, which offers an upfront investment in minor league players in exchange for you know, a percent share of their MLB contracts that they sign. Our first episode of the podcast was about cool that that share with Fernando Tatis Junior. So very cool. But Pete, you're an Omaha man, and you just saw that wild walk off two nights ago for Vandy on a wild pitch.
00:02:06
Speaker 1: Wild but first solid out. O'Brien won an interview. She was fantastic, I mean a pros pros pro. Yeah, like so good. I'm so excited for you guys. Listen to this interview. But oh my god, that game last night. First, before we even get into the game. Omaha, Nebraska, I love you. This is the coolest town ever. Especially inside the stadium. They were doing the wave, you know, the crowd doing the wave for probably thirty straight minutes. They were doing slow motion waves, they were doing they were doing fast waves. The energy inside the stadium was like a When I was at Game two of the Red Sox Dodgers World Series. It very similar energy, even though it wasn't even the final game. So it was just unbelievable energy in the stadium. And then of course Vanderbilt walked it off against Arazza seven to six. In the final inning. They brought in, well, the final three innings, they bought in Brendan Beck from Stanford. What did I just say? Did I say?
00:03:10
Speaker 2: You said they walked it off against Arizona. You're kind of.
00:03:13
Speaker 1: Force to Stanford. Stanford and Arizona, they're both read. Vanderbilt beat Arizona before my brains. Arizona's more blue than red. They kind of red. But they beat Stanford, and Brendan Beck came in for the last three innings. He was shoving and then in the last final inning with two outs, a curveball obviously slipped out of his hand and Vanderbilt walked it off to move on. God, it was such a good game. And we have to talk about enri K Bradfield Junior because he is becoming one of my favorite prospects.
00:03:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, I mean in all the ranks, he's my favorite player in college baseball right now. The guy flies. He's got an over game changing speed, game changing, and he's got an OVP over four fifty. He's Vandy's leadoff man as a true freshman. You just said something before we recorded that. Dustin Demeterer, who is very in tune with college baseball, one of the best players in college basement first team All Big West, said Bradfield could go one to one the year he comes out. And I don't necessarily know about that, but I want you to make the argument for him to go one to one in a couple of years.
00:04:13
Speaker 1: Think about this. Could Bradfield be Kenny Lofton. Could he be a guy who hits you two eighty? Could he be a guy who gets on base at a three sixty clip? And with these updates in the minor leagues to the stolen base role, when pitchers left handed pitchers can't throw over while just lifting their leg, they have to step off increasingly, the numbers of stolen bases are getting higher and higher. If Bradfield can be a guy who leads off and puts up those kind of stats and then is able to steal you sixty to seventy bases, and also he's a Gold Glove level caliber outfielder out in center field, yeah, why wouldn't you take that guy one one? If that's what you're projecting him as which I am. I think he can be that kind of player. And he's just so smart. And he was so clutched last night. He was so clutched last night. And what was the best part, Brendan Beck of Stanford not Arizona. He was throwing curveballs first pitch every single time, and you could see that, and I think in Rik Bradfield Junior sat on it too. First pitch curveball to him, hits into right field, base hit and of course he comes around to score Spencer Jones with a little infield hit as well, to move the guys over at the Vanderbilt was just next guy up, next guy up. It was so much fun to watch. And Rik Bradfield Junior I could see it. He's that good, he's that talented.
00:05:40
Speaker 2: So with how CJ. Abrams has developed in the minor league, great comp right, like you could make Abrams is a shortstop that the Padres are looking at in center field. Yeah, Bradfield is a center fielder, like I think CJ. Abrams is the right comp. I think Billy Hamilton with a better bat. Billy Hamilton's game changing speed with a better bat. That's a perennial All Star and Perennial Stars are number one overall picks.
00:06:07
Speaker 1: So and and also just the fact that he can get on base, like Bradfield has such a good eye at the plate discipline he if he is getting on base at a three sixty clip, you could see sixty to seventy stolen bases from this guy. That's not out of reach. And right now you even said in college, obp far over four hundred. If he's even close to that, that's only that's more stolen bases. This is a guy who, as soon as he gets on is a threat to steal. As soon as he would enter the major leagues, I assume he'd be in the top five of sprint speed. He is that fast, and as he develops, you can get even faster. Sky's the limit for this kid.
00:06:44
Speaker 2: All right, you guys are in Omaha. It's you, Arm Layton and Chris Longo, the main trio of the Just Baseball crew. And you know, now we get to our conversation with Solidad O'Brien. And what I loved about this conversation is Solidad is so focused and this is why she's such a great correspondent for real sports and was so great on CNN, NBC, all the other things that she's involved with. She's so focused on the human aspect of things, and this is a sport that is very in touch with the human aspect baseball. And you know, you could sit there and look at Savant and fangrafts and picture list all day long, but when it's all said and done, these are human beings, and especially in the minor leagues, these are human beings that are struggling financially, and this is a fascinating concept.
00:07:32
Speaker 1: Just Baseball is proud to announce we're partnering with Hero for a live digital stadium experience at the College World Series. Co founders of Just Baseball dot Com, Armlaighton and myself, Peter Apple, will be hosting a series of live shows from Omaha, Nebraska on the Hero app with special guests from the pro and college game, plus expert MLB prospect analysis, fan giveaways, and interactive viewer Q and as. Come watch the game with us, coming along, ask questions and invite your friends into our digital stadium. We launch Just Baseball to change the way the game is being covered, and with Hero, we're going to offer a whole new interactive baseball experience. So what is hero? Hero is a free app to use with your friends for co watching video services like Netflix, Amazon Prime Video, Disney Plus and Hulu, and TV channels like ESPN, Fox, ABC, and CBS and more. While you talk, laugh, and cheer together on voice chat or text chat. It'll feel like you're on the couch watching a ballgame with your friends or at the stadium in the crowds with the Just Baseball community. To join us for the College World Series experience, head over to Just Baseball dot com slash Hero that spelled h ea ro to learn more and download the app. That's Just baseball dot com slash hero.
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Speaker 2: We are incredibly lucky to welcome on such an accomplished and legitimately awesome human being onto the show. Solidad O'Brien is a correspondent.
00:09:08
Speaker 3: Recording are we recording that? And intro I love.
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Speaker 2: It, of course, We're good. Solidad O'Brien is a correspondent for Real Sports with Brian Gumble on HBO. Is previously with both NBC and CNN, and is the host of Matter of Fact, a television program which dives in to the political and socioeconomic issues within the United States, soladad, We cannot thank you enough for taking the time and diving into a topic that I know all three of us find wildly fascinating.
00:09:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is, and I bet we come at it from different ways. Right. There are people who are just obsessed with baseball who think about it in terms of how do you think about investing in a player or coming at it like is this a solution to a real problem? And are there ways to extrapolate what Michael Schumer is doing into other areas? So, yeah, I think it's a really, really fascinating story.
00:09:59
Speaker 1: Right.
00:09:59
Speaker 2: So you just did a feature on Big League Advance, which was spearheaded by Michael Schwimmer, and the essence of BLA Big League Advance is they offer an upfront sum of money to a minor league baseball player in exchange for a percentage share of their future major league earnings. So in the chance that the player does not make the big leagues or doesn't have staying power at the highest level, the minor leaguer keeps the entire sum and they're not obligated to pay it back. They pay the percentage back once they inc MLB deals. What other factors might I be like leaving out right now.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that even if they ink that MLB deal for one day, you know, the minute the clock starts and there's no cap, right, So you could, in theory, have an investment in your future, get a relatively reasonable chunk of money two hundred thousand dollars, and yet if your fortunes improve tremendously, suddenly be paying back twenty times thirty times. I mean, if you're really lucky, fifty times what someone gave you, you'd have to pay back. And so I think that's what makes this story up for me, certainly as a reporter, really interesting and makes it I think for some people who are grappling with well is it the right thing to do? Is it the fair thing to do? It makes it a little controversial.
00:11:20
Speaker 1: And we started our podcast on opening day, April first, around the time that Fernando Tatis signed this three hundred and forty million dollar megadeal, and on our first episode we spent a while talking about the model that Big League Advanced created, in which Tatis obviously jumped onto. But what made you want to jump in to discover more about this model in general?
00:11:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, to some degree, right, the Tatis story is pretty amazing, and who knows exactly what he has to pay back, but let's hypothetically say it's ten percent ish, Right, Suddenly, whatever amount of money he got up front, he's he's paying back thirty four million dollars. And I think that's a very a reasonable guest. When we asked Michael to give us a sense of like what a typical deal is, it's in that range. So's somewhere around that, So I no, no, you know, I think you could argue, well, unless someone gave him thirty three million dollars, that might be a lot. But I think for me what was really interesting was where else you could take this And the fact, frankly, that Michael was a minor league player who made it into the majors, right, I think that gives him a certain amount of insight. I think it is wildly undercovered how pretty bad some of the conditions are for players in the minor leagues. I mean, I think it's really sad, and you can see how there's this ridiculously unfair system and what he's trying to do is layer some kind of a solution. But is that solution of pure solution? Or is that solution a little bit of taking advantage or is that solution some people think part of the problem. And I think you could argue all three of those perspectives pretty convinced.
00:13:01
Speaker 2: So Solo Dad, we were talking before we actually hit record and we started this pod. You know, I've been around minor league baseball for a couple of years now, and I've conversed with a lot of Latin players, players from you know, kind of a tougher upbringings, you know, maybe more poverty stricken, that signed for less than one hundred thousand dollars, right, Like, that's not necessarily with BLA. That's when they signed when they're sixteen years old, coming out of the Dominican Republic or Venezuela or Cuba, and they're trying to support a family back home in the DR or Venezuela with a minor league salary. I've talked to twenty one year olds that have a wife and two kids, which on a minor league deal that is impossible. It's not nearly impossible, it is impossible. So how does the upfront some of BLA kind of help these guys. Does it go towards their training, their food, does it also kind of go towards their families.
00:13:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think all of the above, depending on who you talk to. I think everybody has a vision of what they would do with the money. Some talked about training, that they were able to get trainers, that they were able to eat better food, that they were able to, you know, hand off cash to their family in the Dominican Republic, you know, and and sort of just on every single front where if someone handed you a bag of cash, you'd say, oh my gosh, with this, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this, I'm going to go over here and do this. I think it's very similar. I've talked to a number as I was trying to figure out and I said this to Michael as I was interviewing him. As I was trying to figure this out, like how do I feel about this story? I would talk to a number of young Dominican just because I happened to know their moms, players and who didn't make it, you know, who were often recruited for college in the US, but they just didn't make it. And one particularly one young man said to me, you know, I would have given up fifty percent five about fifty percent of what i'd made, like, and I said, oh, because it's it was your dream, and he said, so, it's not my dream. It is the dream. You don't understand it's the dream, right, And I think it gave me some insight because it is a question of, you know, are you exploiting people when you take a sizeable chunk of their future earnings? I mean, that's ultimately the heart of the question. And without exception, although my sample size is very tiny, at the young men that I was just interviewing kind of off the cuff, they so felt that it would have made them contenders, right that they felt like when they failed. It's because, I mean the young man I was talking to in that case, he was hungry all the time. You know, he couldn't afford to buy food and be an athlete. He's like, I just can't afford it, to the point and his mom said to me, I'd go watch him play, and he'd get skinnier and skinnier and skinnier. Eventually he dropped out of college altogether. Right, And so for him, one hundred thousand dollars would have been a game changer, literally, I mean it would have just changed his life, and I think he felt given him at least the chance to be in contention for one day making it into the Major and for that someone giving you a chance at your dream. I think he felt like fifty percent would be fine. So it was interesting to kind of get the perspective. It's very easy to go in and say, oh, Tis tiss, this is so sad. The system clearly is terrible, right, the system? What is it? Ten thousand dolls? You guys know better than I do. Ten thousands and roughly ten or eleven thousand dollars a year now? Yeah, yeah, come on, that's terrible. That's terrible. That's just terrible.
00:16:26
Speaker 1: I agree. And of course, not every single prospect is going to work out. I know that they don't have a one hundred percent success rate, but Fernando Tatis Junior and Yeerman Mercedes have certainly worked out. And you asked Michael Schwimmer about his accuracy when it comes to landing that right perfect prospect, and he mentioned that they're doing better than basically everyone else. Did he actually divulge into how accurate they've been over the three hundred different prospects they've invested in. Did he give you any numbers to a collaborate on that accuracy.
00:17:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, the three point fifty that they have sixty have made it into the majors, although that's not really a pure tell on him.
00:17:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm saying, or the.
00:17:09
Speaker 3: Quality of the analysis.
00:17:12
Speaker 1: Right.
00:17:12
Speaker 3: Ultimately, at the end of the day, the secret sauces he likes to call it. And he would say, does Coca Cola give you their formula? And you're like, nol, Coca Cola does not, You know, I don't call them up and ask for the formula. And I think he has a point, right, like, Yeah, the whole enchilada is the analysis. It's the data, right, It's it's a business layered on top of figuring out how to make your data the most accurate because everybody has data, but is yours better? Can you pick these prospects with more accuracy? And so No, of course he didn't walk me through every single detail, and they're of their top secret data analytics. But I do think he is super confident in their ability to pick people who they think will do well. And he says he's totally fine when they lose money because and I believe him when he says this, I don't think this is spin you know, worst case you end up giving someone money that they don't have to pay back. He's like, I don't feel badly about it that I gave someone money so now they can go to graduate school, or now they can finish their degree or now, Like I don't, He's like, I think that's okay. So and I believe him. I don't think that's spinning us on. You know, he's not running a charity, which he told us very clearly. But I do think he's trying to figure out how to solve the problem.
00:18:32
Speaker 2: You know, he's got a very wide portfolio, and he's had a couple of can't miss prospects once he invested in Fernando Tatis Junior, Froan mil Reyes. Those were two guys that you kind of knew were going to make it. And the third guy that you highlighted in that feature, which you can find on Real Sports with Briant Gubble. It's on HBO Max. That's how I watched it. You can also just check it out on HBO. But Your Mean Mercedes was the other guy. And I'm from Chicago. It's been so fun watching Your Mean.
00:18:57
Speaker 3: To show up guy, right, what a nice job.
00:19:00
Speaker 2: It's crazy and with your mien. I mean, it was a totally different beast. And he spent eight years in minor league baseball grinding away. He was an independent league baseball player. And I think my favorite quote from that entire fifteen minute feature was your means saying Big League Advance believed in me when nobody else believed in me. And you know, this kind of takes me into my next question. Michael Swimmer is the founder and CEO of Big League Advance. He had a fleeting MLB career. Injuries derailed it. You know, he was nowhere near all star caliber and very simply put, you can elaborate if you want to. I know, one of like the cardinal sins and journalists, is the yes or no question.
00:19:42
Speaker 3: I feel about that he gave.
00:19:45
Speaker 2: I mean, my Syracuse professors might like scream text me because of this. But is Michael Schwimmer doing a good thing? Like does he have a caring heart?
00:19:54
Speaker 3: Those are two different questions, and I would say this is what I have over the last since we did our first interview. He's a super interesting guy, and I actually find a lot of these interviews just fascinating. You're sitting down with a person who's created a business and you whether they're an amazing you know, whether it's mother Teresa, or you know, somebody else like you want to understand. The business can be a very interesting model when whether the person's good or bad, seems like a super nice guy. But I didn't meet him for that long. But I do think is his business doing something good? I think it is doing something important right. I think it's filling this gap that at this moment, those critics don't seem to be saying, Hey, I've got this other thing happening over here that's wildly successful and really helping. Whether there's a charity that says, listen, it's insane for people to live a nine, ten, eleven thousand dollars a year. So you know, we're just going to give you. We have a bank. If you need a loan, you come by. No one's doing that. That people could, but they're not know what is helping even you know, hey, once you take out a loan, will help you pay off that loan or forgive loan. No one's saying, you know, we'll find you housing, will build affordable housing. We will be able to put you up in these cities so you don't have to live six people to a small apartment. You know. So I think when critics criticize and don't necessarily come up with solutions that are useful, I tend to discount them a little bit. I do think what he's doing. And I've had this discussion with every single person in my family, my poor kids. You know, yes or no? Is this exploitative? Is it good? I think it's providing a service. And interestingly, Michael says, and we couldn't fit this in our piece, but he says, you know a lot of people who are middle class are also taking the money. And the answer is that there's a guess, having a stamp of approval right from BLA saying like we believe in you, has this psychological piece of it. I suppose that you know that. It's it's almost like I have a little gold star over here saying that you know, BLA believes I'm going to be successful. Now, I think if you really do have the money, and your parents could give you a couple hundred thousand, you might want to do a loan from your mom and dad and not have to pay them ten percent of your life long earnings. Financially good financial planner might walk you through, But I do think there are some very valid questions and pushback around. You know, to what degree do people go in with their eyes fully open? You know, he clearly is videotaping their meetings and making sure that the contracts are are signed with everybody well aware. And I have to imagine, because it's pretty unusual signed a lot of contracts in my day. No one's ever rolled on it, right that when someone does that, they're intentionally trying to show, you know, we are not taking advantage, which means it is a question. I think those are valid questions. But I also will say, you know, one of the things that Michael did, I started reading him criticism. I said, I want to read you some of the things people said about you. He's like, no, I don't want to hear it. Actually that was kind of great, right, He's like, if they will not put their name to, you know, something they're saying about me, then I'm not going to answer it. Like I don't have to answer somebody bad mounting me who doesn't have the balls to like say it with their name attached to it, Like I'm not. I refuse to answer that, Cristicians. I thought that was actually I'm going to steal that, right. That's a good point. People who anonymously are trashing you sort of don't get a voice, And I thought that, you know, I think that's a bit of his strategy is he's got a thing, it's working, and I think they are providing a service that's clearly desperately needed.
00:23:37
Speaker 1: And just to wrap this up, do you see this model as something that will catch on with other companies, because there's no doubt that Big League Advance has been extremely successful so far, or do you see this as kind of a special type of agency that won't really impact the landscape as much as we may think. Do you think this really grows and a lot of people start latching on, or do you think maybe this might be the only kind of company to do it?
00:24:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think again, it's all going to depend on the data analytics.
00:24:09
Speaker 2: Right.
00:24:09
Speaker 3: You really only can do it if you know that your data is going to serve you well. And then you need some big funders. Their fund is one hundred and fifty four million dollars, right, so you need some people to write you some big checks. To get it going. But I do think what's interesting about proving out the model is going to be what other sports does it work in? Michael said it doesn't. He thought about it for horse racing and he's like, I just that's just there's no correlation at all though the data just doesn't work. But what other sports could you, you know, think about going in and saying, financially, we can give you money on the front end and take something on the back end. What other careers could you do it? Could you say to people who want to be teachers, like, stop taking out and insanely, I mean, talk about something that's wildly unfair, the student loan. Right, even if you go bankrupt, you can't discharge your student loan. Could you say, instead of borrowing money at this insane rate, we'll give you the money up front, and then when you graduate and you do become a teacher, starting on day one, you have to pay it back, you know, ten percent of yourself or whatever it is. You know, what is the math that works there? I find that a very interesting model because obviously student debt is very problematic. I think it would be amazing to invest in young people and have them pay back a percentage. Some places are doing that. Purdue University is doing that already. They have a cap on it. It's not ten percent, it's a smaller percentage, and it's done in a relatively smaller pool. But extrapolating on that, I think will be fascinating.
00:25:36
Speaker 1: I'd love to be Michael Schumer's first client. If you could represent me and pay off some of my student loans, I'll be around.
00:25:42
Speaker 3: You might have it backwards, I think, like earlier at.
00:25:45
Speaker 1: The beginning, I think you're correct.
00:25:47
Speaker 3: I try about with that, though I had to put it out there.
00:25:50
Speaker 1: How did you mention have some.
00:25:51
Speaker 3: Of my doing. I'm going to think of it. Make my kids do the lawns exactly.
00:25:55
Speaker 2: So that one more thing for me before we wrap up. You know, one of my other favorite things about this feature was Michael Swimmer and you guys kind of hit this nail on the head, like this is a problem that Major League Baseball can solve on their own if they want, and all it has to do is like increasing the minor league wage from nothing too slightly above a.
00:26:18
Speaker 3: Thing or a bank where you can take out loans right where you could actually say, you know, I need to borrow some money until I make it, or a charity that actually gives you. Right, there's a million things that could be done. So again, I take those criticisms and when major League Baseball doesn't really I mean, they wouldn't come on the show, right, So that kind of speaks volumes. It's very hard when you say, well it is in your hand. You all people who are critical or won't come on the show and yet don't actually have a solution. It's very hard, I think, to take what they're saying or not saying in some cases seriously, because they could do something they literally, they literally have in their power to make a change, and they don't.
00:26:58
Speaker 1: They have plenty of money.
00:27:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, so well, sod that O'Brien. We greatly appreciate the time. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
00:27:06
Speaker 3: Congratulations on the podcast.
00:27:10
Speaker 2: I mean we said it in the intro like that conversation could not have gone better. She is so eloquent and she knows her stuff.
00:27:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, we told you were going to like it, and and just it's so funny, kind of coming full circle. How we talked about BLA at the beginning and how it worked out with Fernando Tatis, It worked out with Yerman Mercedes, it worked out with Franul Reyes, But there are plenty of people that it doesn't work out. But the big thing about BLA is they invest in people, and like Michael Schwimer said, it's not a charity. Yeah, they they invest in you to make money and they tell you that upfront, but it's because they believe in that player. And I think a lot of minor leaguers just haven't been feeling that, especially yourman Mercedes. You mentioned it in the interview. Jerman Mercedes felt like nobody really believed in him, and this company came to him and said, we're gonna get view a boatload of cash because we believe in you and we expect that you were going to be a major leaguer and you'll be able to pay us back tenfold. And he said, you know what, that's worth it. And that's why the whole concept of BLA is so interesting. And she was just obviously fantastic.
00:28:19
Speaker 2: She was awesome. You got our thoughts on it right away in April, you got Solidad O'Brien's thoughts on it, who as a non biased journalist, did a great fifteen minute feature story again. Go check it out Real Sports with Brian Gummel on HBO. You can stream it on HBO Max. We got her thoughts on it today at the end of June and in early July Full Transparency. I submitted an interview request to Big League Advance. We want Michael Swimmer on to have a conversation about it because I kind of agree with Solida O'Brien. I think this does a service and it's not slimy. I think swimmer is doing a really good thing for minor league baseball players because they need money. And the reality is Fernando Tatis made three hundred and forty million dollars. He's gonna get BLA thirty four. He's still got He's still got three hundred million dollars.
00:29:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's still pretty good and something. I obviously want to ask Michael Schwimer about the entire business model and all that, but I really want to find out how they're evaluating these players. I really want to find out about the data. I doubt he'll tell us because it's probably a secret formula. It's like the Coca Cola formula, like sold the Dad mentioned. But I really want to know what kind of numbers they are looking at. I assume they're looking at everything, but I just find that so interesting how they're projecting these guys. Because we mentioned Fernanda a Tatis junior. When they originally signed him, he was not this top tippity top prospect he was. Remember he was traded from the Chicago White Sox to the Padres for James Shields. He was not this number one, number one he was.
00:29:47
Speaker 2: He was a big name, and he eventually rose into the top five of prospects.
00:29:50
Speaker 1: In me, it was a big name, but he wasn't He wasn't a no doubter at the time.
00:29:56
Speaker 2: He was I mean pretty much straight up, like we can't. We can't discredit Eric Johnson as a plug and play bullpen piece for a year or two. But like you know, Tatis was a relatively big name, but a great conversation and we just hit the time limit on our zoom, so we are going to let you go. But Pete, you're in Omaha. Follow along on our social media as just Baseball Fans on TikTok and Instagram, just bb media on Twitter, myself at Jack Underscore, McMullin eleven on Twitter you at Peter Apple twenty three on Twitter. You've got a bunch of good coverage coming from Omaha. And I don't know, I'll keep liking tweets and you know, say some funny stuff every now and again.
00:30:35
Speaker 1: Yankees Red Sox this weekend as well, on top of the College World Series, and also come stream with us on Hero It's A's co watching app. It's gonna be awesome. We're gonna be doing some live streams. You get to watch the College Baseball World Series and chat along with us. I'm excited for this Yankees Red Sox series this weekend.
00:30:54
Speaker 2: Though, just in the nick of time. See everybody, Thank you, everybody.
Speaker 1: You like to just baseball show and want to make your own, let me tell you about Anchor. It's free. There's a creation tool that allows you to record and edit your podcast right from your phone or computer. Now you can even add any song from Spotify directly to your episodes. The possibilities are endless for what you can create, whether it's music analysis, your own radio show, or something the world's never seen before. Anchor will distribute your podcast for you so it can be heard on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and much more. You can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. It's everything you need to make a podcast in one place. So download the free Anchor app or go to anchor dot fm to get started.
00:01:02
Speaker 2: We will see you to.
00:01:14
Speaker 1: The Garner.
00:01:17
Speaker 2: Welcome to hang out. Today is Friday, June twenty fifth. Peter Apple is in Omaha. I am not in Omaha's but you know, we had a great conversation with Solidad O'Brien that we are so excited to bring you. Solidad O'Brien correspondent for Real Sports with Brian Gumbel on HBO. She did about a ten to fifteen minute feature on Big League Advance and if you have HBO HBO Max. I would watch that. That's Michael Swimmer and his deal, which offers an upfront investment in minor league players in exchange for you know, a percent share of their MLB contracts that they sign. Our first episode of the podcast was about cool that that share with Fernando Tatis Junior. So very cool. But Pete, you're an Omaha man, and you just saw that wild walk off two nights ago for Vandy on a wild pitch.
00:02:06
Speaker 1: Wild but first solid out. O'Brien won an interview. She was fantastic, I mean a pros pros pro. Yeah, like so good. I'm so excited for you guys. Listen to this interview. But oh my god, that game last night. First, before we even get into the game. Omaha, Nebraska, I love you. This is the coolest town ever. Especially inside the stadium. They were doing the wave, you know, the crowd doing the wave for probably thirty straight minutes. They were doing slow motion waves, they were doing they were doing fast waves. The energy inside the stadium was like a When I was at Game two of the Red Sox Dodgers World Series. It very similar energy, even though it wasn't even the final game. So it was just unbelievable energy in the stadium. And then of course Vanderbilt walked it off against Arazza seven to six. In the final inning. They brought in, well, the final three innings, they bought in Brendan Beck from Stanford. What did I just say? Did I say?
00:03:10
Speaker 2: You said they walked it off against Arizona. You're kind of.
00:03:13
Speaker 1: Force to Stanford. Stanford and Arizona, they're both read. Vanderbilt beat Arizona before my brains. Arizona's more blue than red. They kind of red. But they beat Stanford, and Brendan Beck came in for the last three innings. He was shoving and then in the last final inning with two outs, a curveball obviously slipped out of his hand and Vanderbilt walked it off to move on. God, it was such a good game. And we have to talk about enri K Bradfield Junior because he is becoming one of my favorite prospects.
00:03:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, I mean in all the ranks, he's my favorite player in college baseball right now. The guy flies. He's got an over game changing speed, game changing, and he's got an OVP over four fifty. He's Vandy's leadoff man as a true freshman. You just said something before we recorded that. Dustin Demeterer, who is very in tune with college baseball, one of the best players in college basement first team All Big West, said Bradfield could go one to one the year he comes out. And I don't necessarily know about that, but I want you to make the argument for him to go one to one in a couple of years.
00:04:13
Speaker 1: Think about this. Could Bradfield be Kenny Lofton. Could he be a guy who hits you two eighty? Could he be a guy who gets on base at a three sixty clip? And with these updates in the minor leagues to the stolen base role, when pitchers left handed pitchers can't throw over while just lifting their leg, they have to step off increasingly, the numbers of stolen bases are getting higher and higher. If Bradfield can be a guy who leads off and puts up those kind of stats and then is able to steal you sixty to seventy bases, and also he's a Gold Glove level caliber outfielder out in center field, yeah, why wouldn't you take that guy one one? If that's what you're projecting him as which I am. I think he can be that kind of player. And he's just so smart. And he was so clutched last night. He was so clutched last night. And what was the best part, Brendan Beck of Stanford not Arizona. He was throwing curveballs first pitch every single time, and you could see that, and I think in Rik Bradfield Junior sat on it too. First pitch curveball to him, hits into right field, base hit and of course he comes around to score Spencer Jones with a little infield hit as well, to move the guys over at the Vanderbilt was just next guy up, next guy up. It was so much fun to watch. And Rik Bradfield Junior I could see it. He's that good, he's that talented.
00:05:40
Speaker 2: So with how CJ. Abrams has developed in the minor league, great comp right, like you could make Abrams is a shortstop that the Padres are looking at in center field. Yeah, Bradfield is a center fielder, like I think CJ. Abrams is the right comp. I think Billy Hamilton with a better bat. Billy Hamilton's game changing speed with a better bat. That's a perennial All Star and Perennial Stars are number one overall picks.
00:06:07
Speaker 1: So and and also just the fact that he can get on base, like Bradfield has such a good eye at the plate discipline he if he is getting on base at a three sixty clip, you could see sixty to seventy stolen bases from this guy. That's not out of reach. And right now you even said in college, obp far over four hundred. If he's even close to that, that's only that's more stolen bases. This is a guy who, as soon as he gets on is a threat to steal. As soon as he would enter the major leagues, I assume he'd be in the top five of sprint speed. He is that fast, and as he develops, you can get even faster. Sky's the limit for this kid.
00:06:44
Speaker 2: All right, you guys are in Omaha. It's you, Arm Layton and Chris Longo, the main trio of the Just Baseball crew. And you know, now we get to our conversation with Solidad O'Brien. And what I loved about this conversation is Solidad is so focused and this is why she's such a great correspondent for real sports and was so great on CNN, NBC, all the other things that she's involved with. She's so focused on the human aspect of things, and this is a sport that is very in touch with the human aspect baseball. And you know, you could sit there and look at Savant and fangrafts and picture list all day long, but when it's all said and done, these are human beings, and especially in the minor leagues, these are human beings that are struggling financially, and this is a fascinating concept.
00:07:32
Speaker 1: Just Baseball is proud to announce we're partnering with Hero for a live digital stadium experience at the College World Series. Co founders of Just Baseball dot Com, Armlaighton and myself, Peter Apple, will be hosting a series of live shows from Omaha, Nebraska on the Hero app with special guests from the pro and college game, plus expert MLB prospect analysis, fan giveaways, and interactive viewer Q and as. Come watch the game with us, coming along, ask questions and invite your friends into our digital stadium. We launch Just Baseball to change the way the game is being covered, and with Hero, we're going to offer a whole new interactive baseball experience. So what is hero? Hero is a free app to use with your friends for co watching video services like Netflix, Amazon Prime Video, Disney Plus and Hulu, and TV channels like ESPN, Fox, ABC, and CBS and more. While you talk, laugh, and cheer together on voice chat or text chat. It'll feel like you're on the couch watching a ballgame with your friends or at the stadium in the crowds with the Just Baseball community. To join us for the College World Series experience, head over to Just Baseball dot com slash Hero that spelled h ea ro to learn more and download the app. That's Just baseball dot com slash hero.
00:09:00
Speaker 2: We are incredibly lucky to welcome on such an accomplished and legitimately awesome human being onto the show. Solidad O'Brien is a correspondent.
00:09:08
Speaker 3: Recording are we recording that? And intro I love.
00:09:10
Speaker 2: It, of course, We're good. Solidad O'Brien is a correspondent for Real Sports with Brian Gumble on HBO. Is previously with both NBC and CNN, and is the host of Matter of Fact, a television program which dives in to the political and socioeconomic issues within the United States, soladad, We cannot thank you enough for taking the time and diving into a topic that I know all three of us find wildly fascinating.
00:09:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is, and I bet we come at it from different ways. Right. There are people who are just obsessed with baseball who think about it in terms of how do you think about investing in a player or coming at it like is this a solution to a real problem? And are there ways to extrapolate what Michael Schumer is doing into other areas? So, yeah, I think it's a really, really fascinating story.
00:09:59
Speaker 1: Right.
00:09:59
Speaker 2: So you just did a feature on Big League Advance, which was spearheaded by Michael Schwimmer, and the essence of BLA Big League Advance is they offer an upfront sum of money to a minor league baseball player in exchange for a percentage share of their future major league earnings. So in the chance that the player does not make the big leagues or doesn't have staying power at the highest level, the minor leaguer keeps the entire sum and they're not obligated to pay it back. They pay the percentage back once they inc MLB deals. What other factors might I be like leaving out right now.
00:10:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that even if they ink that MLB deal for one day, you know, the minute the clock starts and there's no cap, right, So you could, in theory, have an investment in your future, get a relatively reasonable chunk of money two hundred thousand dollars, and yet if your fortunes improve tremendously, suddenly be paying back twenty times thirty times. I mean, if you're really lucky, fifty times what someone gave you, you'd have to pay back. And so I think that's what makes this story up for me, certainly as a reporter, really interesting and makes it I think for some people who are grappling with well is it the right thing to do? Is it the fair thing to do? It makes it a little controversial.
00:11:20
Speaker 1: And we started our podcast on opening day, April first, around the time that Fernando Tatis signed this three hundred and forty million dollar megadeal, and on our first episode we spent a while talking about the model that Big League Advanced created, in which Tatis obviously jumped onto. But what made you want to jump in to discover more about this model in general?
00:11:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, to some degree, right, the Tatis story is pretty amazing, and who knows exactly what he has to pay back, but let's hypothetically say it's ten percent ish, Right, Suddenly, whatever amount of money he got up front, he's he's paying back thirty four million dollars. And I think that's a very a reasonable guest. When we asked Michael to give us a sense of like what a typical deal is, it's in that range. So's somewhere around that, So I no, no, you know, I think you could argue, well, unless someone gave him thirty three million dollars, that might be a lot. But I think for me what was really interesting was where else you could take this And the fact, frankly, that Michael was a minor league player who made it into the majors, right, I think that gives him a certain amount of insight. I think it is wildly undercovered how pretty bad some of the conditions are for players in the minor leagues. I mean, I think it's really sad, and you can see how there's this ridiculously unfair system and what he's trying to do is layer some kind of a solution. But is that solution of pure solution? Or is that solution a little bit of taking advantage or is that solution some people think part of the problem. And I think you could argue all three of those perspectives pretty convinced.
00:13:01
Speaker 2: So Solo Dad, we were talking before we actually hit record and we started this pod. You know, I've been around minor league baseball for a couple of years now, and I've conversed with a lot of Latin players, players from you know, kind of a tougher upbringings, you know, maybe more poverty stricken, that signed for less than one hundred thousand dollars, right, Like, that's not necessarily with BLA. That's when they signed when they're sixteen years old, coming out of the Dominican Republic or Venezuela or Cuba, and they're trying to support a family back home in the DR or Venezuela with a minor league salary. I've talked to twenty one year olds that have a wife and two kids, which on a minor league deal that is impossible. It's not nearly impossible, it is impossible. So how does the upfront some of BLA kind of help these guys. Does it go towards their training, their food, does it also kind of go towards their families.
00:13:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think all of the above, depending on who you talk to. I think everybody has a vision of what they would do with the money. Some talked about training, that they were able to get trainers, that they were able to eat better food, that they were able to, you know, hand off cash to their family in the Dominican Republic, you know, and and sort of just on every single front where if someone handed you a bag of cash, you'd say, oh my gosh, with this, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this, I'm going to go over here and do this. I think it's very similar. I've talked to a number as I was trying to figure out and I said this to Michael as I was interviewing him. As I was trying to figure this out, like how do I feel about this story? I would talk to a number of young Dominican just because I happened to know their moms, players and who didn't make it, you know, who were often recruited for college in the US, but they just didn't make it. And one particularly one young man said to me, you know, I would have given up fifty percent five about fifty percent of what i'd made, like, and I said, oh, because it's it was your dream, and he said, so, it's not my dream. It is the dream. You don't understand it's the dream, right, And I think it gave me some insight because it is a question of, you know, are you exploiting people when you take a sizeable chunk of their future earnings? I mean, that's ultimately the heart of the question. And without exception, although my sample size is very tiny, at the young men that I was just interviewing kind of off the cuff, they so felt that it would have made them contenders, right that they felt like when they failed. It's because, I mean the young man I was talking to in that case, he was hungry all the time. You know, he couldn't afford to buy food and be an athlete. He's like, I just can't afford it, to the point and his mom said to me, I'd go watch him play, and he'd get skinnier and skinnier and skinnier. Eventually he dropped out of college altogether. Right, And so for him, one hundred thousand dollars would have been a game changer, literally, I mean it would have just changed his life, and I think he felt given him at least the chance to be in contention for one day making it into the Major and for that someone giving you a chance at your dream. I think he felt like fifty percent would be fine. So it was interesting to kind of get the perspective. It's very easy to go in and say, oh, Tis tiss, this is so sad. The system clearly is terrible, right, the system? What is it? Ten thousand dolls? You guys know better than I do. Ten thousands and roughly ten or eleven thousand dollars a year now? Yeah, yeah, come on, that's terrible. That's terrible. That's just terrible.
00:16:26
Speaker 1: I agree. And of course, not every single prospect is going to work out. I know that they don't have a one hundred percent success rate, but Fernando Tatis Junior and Yeerman Mercedes have certainly worked out. And you asked Michael Schwimmer about his accuracy when it comes to landing that right perfect prospect, and he mentioned that they're doing better than basically everyone else. Did he actually divulge into how accurate they've been over the three hundred different prospects they've invested in. Did he give you any numbers to a collaborate on that accuracy.
00:17:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, the three point fifty that they have sixty have made it into the majors, although that's not really a pure tell on him.
00:17:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm saying, or the.
00:17:09
Speaker 3: Quality of the analysis.
00:17:12
Speaker 1: Right.
00:17:12
Speaker 3: Ultimately, at the end of the day, the secret sauces he likes to call it. And he would say, does Coca Cola give you their formula? And you're like, nol, Coca Cola does not, You know, I don't call them up and ask for the formula. And I think he has a point, right, like, Yeah, the whole enchilada is the analysis. It's the data, right, It's it's a business layered on top of figuring out how to make your data the most accurate because everybody has data, but is yours better? Can you pick these prospects with more accuracy? And so No, of course he didn't walk me through every single detail, and they're of their top secret data analytics. But I do think he is super confident in their ability to pick people who they think will do well. And he says he's totally fine when they lose money because and I believe him when he says this, I don't think this is spin you know, worst case you end up giving someone money that they don't have to pay back. He's like, I don't feel badly about it that I gave someone money so now they can go to graduate school, or now they can finish their degree or now, Like I don't, He's like, I think that's okay. So and I believe him. I don't think that's spinning us on. You know, he's not running a charity, which he told us very clearly. But I do think he's trying to figure out how to solve the problem.
00:18:32
Speaker 2: You know, he's got a very wide portfolio, and he's had a couple of can't miss prospects once he invested in Fernando Tatis Junior, Froan mil Reyes. Those were two guys that you kind of knew were going to make it. And the third guy that you highlighted in that feature, which you can find on Real Sports with Briant Gubble. It's on HBO Max. That's how I watched it. You can also just check it out on HBO. But Your Mean Mercedes was the other guy. And I'm from Chicago. It's been so fun watching Your Mean.
00:18:57
Speaker 3: To show up guy, right, what a nice job.
00:19:00
Speaker 2: It's crazy and with your mien. I mean, it was a totally different beast. And he spent eight years in minor league baseball grinding away. He was an independent league baseball player. And I think my favorite quote from that entire fifteen minute feature was your means saying Big League Advance believed in me when nobody else believed in me. And you know, this kind of takes me into my next question. Michael Swimmer is the founder and CEO of Big League Advance. He had a fleeting MLB career. Injuries derailed it. You know, he was nowhere near all star caliber and very simply put, you can elaborate if you want to. I know, one of like the cardinal sins and journalists, is the yes or no question.
00:19:42
Speaker 3: I feel about that he gave.
00:19:45
Speaker 2: I mean, my Syracuse professors might like scream text me because of this. But is Michael Schwimmer doing a good thing? Like does he have a caring heart?
00:19:54
Speaker 3: Those are two different questions, and I would say this is what I have over the last since we did our first interview. He's a super interesting guy, and I actually find a lot of these interviews just fascinating. You're sitting down with a person who's created a business and you whether they're an amazing you know, whether it's mother Teresa, or you know, somebody else like you want to understand. The business can be a very interesting model when whether the person's good or bad, seems like a super nice guy. But I didn't meet him for that long. But I do think is his business doing something good? I think it is doing something important right. I think it's filling this gap that at this moment, those critics don't seem to be saying, Hey, I've got this other thing happening over here that's wildly successful and really helping. Whether there's a charity that says, listen, it's insane for people to live a nine, ten, eleven thousand dollars a year. So you know, we're just going to give you. We have a bank. If you need a loan, you come by. No one's doing that. That people could, but they're not know what is helping even you know, hey, once you take out a loan, will help you pay off that loan or forgive loan. No one's saying, you know, we'll find you housing, will build affordable housing. We will be able to put you up in these cities so you don't have to live six people to a small apartment. You know. So I think when critics criticize and don't necessarily come up with solutions that are useful, I tend to discount them a little bit. I do think what he's doing. And I've had this discussion with every single person in my family, my poor kids. You know, yes or no? Is this exploitative? Is it good? I think it's providing a service. And interestingly, Michael says, and we couldn't fit this in our piece, but he says, you know a lot of people who are middle class are also taking the money. And the answer is that there's a guess, having a stamp of approval right from BLA saying like we believe in you, has this psychological piece of it. I suppose that you know that. It's it's almost like I have a little gold star over here saying that you know, BLA believes I'm going to be successful. Now, I think if you really do have the money, and your parents could give you a couple hundred thousand, you might want to do a loan from your mom and dad and not have to pay them ten percent of your life long earnings. Financially good financial planner might walk you through, But I do think there are some very valid questions and pushback around. You know, to what degree do people go in with their eyes fully open? You know, he clearly is videotaping their meetings and making sure that the contracts are are signed with everybody well aware. And I have to imagine, because it's pretty unusual signed a lot of contracts in my day. No one's ever rolled on it, right that when someone does that, they're intentionally trying to show, you know, we are not taking advantage, which means it is a question. I think those are valid questions. But I also will say, you know, one of the things that Michael did, I started reading him criticism. I said, I want to read you some of the things people said about you. He's like, no, I don't want to hear it. Actually that was kind of great, right, He's like, if they will not put their name to, you know, something they're saying about me, then I'm not going to answer it. Like I don't have to answer somebody bad mounting me who doesn't have the balls to like say it with their name attached to it, Like I'm not. I refuse to answer that, Cristicians. I thought that was actually I'm going to steal that, right. That's a good point. People who anonymously are trashing you sort of don't get a voice, And I thought that, you know, I think that's a bit of his strategy is he's got a thing, it's working, and I think they are providing a service that's clearly desperately needed.
00:23:37
Speaker 1: And just to wrap this up, do you see this model as something that will catch on with other companies, because there's no doubt that Big League Advance has been extremely successful so far, or do you see this as kind of a special type of agency that won't really impact the landscape as much as we may think. Do you think this really grows and a lot of people start latching on, or do you think maybe this might be the only kind of company to do it?
00:24:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think again, it's all going to depend on the data analytics.
00:24:09
Speaker 2: Right.
00:24:09
Speaker 3: You really only can do it if you know that your data is going to serve you well. And then you need some big funders. Their fund is one hundred and fifty four million dollars, right, so you need some people to write you some big checks. To get it going. But I do think what's interesting about proving out the model is going to be what other sports does it work in? Michael said it doesn't. He thought about it for horse racing and he's like, I just that's just there's no correlation at all though the data just doesn't work. But what other sports could you, you know, think about going in and saying, financially, we can give you money on the front end and take something on the back end. What other careers could you do it? Could you say to people who want to be teachers, like, stop taking out and insanely, I mean, talk about something that's wildly unfair, the student loan. Right, even if you go bankrupt, you can't discharge your student loan. Could you say, instead of borrowing money at this insane rate, we'll give you the money up front, and then when you graduate and you do become a teacher, starting on day one, you have to pay it back, you know, ten percent of yourself or whatever it is. You know, what is the math that works there? I find that a very interesting model because obviously student debt is very problematic. I think it would be amazing to invest in young people and have them pay back a percentage. Some places are doing that. Purdue University is doing that already. They have a cap on it. It's not ten percent, it's a smaller percentage, and it's done in a relatively smaller pool. But extrapolating on that, I think will be fascinating.
00:25:36
Speaker 1: I'd love to be Michael Schumer's first client. If you could represent me and pay off some of my student loans, I'll be around.
00:25:42
Speaker 3: You might have it backwards, I think, like earlier at.
00:25:45
Speaker 1: The beginning, I think you're correct.
00:25:47
Speaker 3: I try about with that, though I had to put it out there.
00:25:50
Speaker 1: How did you mention have some.
00:25:51
Speaker 3: Of my doing. I'm going to think of it. Make my kids do the lawns exactly.
00:25:55
Speaker 2: So that one more thing for me before we wrap up. You know, one of my other favorite things about this feature was Michael Swimmer and you guys kind of hit this nail on the head, like this is a problem that Major League Baseball can solve on their own if they want, and all it has to do is like increasing the minor league wage from nothing too slightly above a.
00:26:18
Speaker 3: Thing or a bank where you can take out loans right where you could actually say, you know, I need to borrow some money until I make it, or a charity that actually gives you. Right, there's a million things that could be done. So again, I take those criticisms and when major League Baseball doesn't really I mean, they wouldn't come on the show, right, So that kind of speaks volumes. It's very hard when you say, well it is in your hand. You all people who are critical or won't come on the show and yet don't actually have a solution. It's very hard, I think, to take what they're saying or not saying in some cases seriously, because they could do something they literally, they literally have in their power to make a change, and they don't.
00:26:58
Speaker 1: They have plenty of money.
00:27:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, so well, sod that O'Brien. We greatly appreciate the time. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
00:27:06
Speaker 3: Congratulations on the podcast.
00:27:10
Speaker 2: I mean we said it in the intro like that conversation could not have gone better. She is so eloquent and she knows her stuff.
00:27:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, we told you were going to like it, and and just it's so funny, kind of coming full circle. How we talked about BLA at the beginning and how it worked out with Fernando Tatis, It worked out with Yerman Mercedes, it worked out with Franul Reyes, But there are plenty of people that it doesn't work out. But the big thing about BLA is they invest in people, and like Michael Schwimer said, it's not a charity. Yeah, they they invest in you to make money and they tell you that upfront, but it's because they believe in that player. And I think a lot of minor leaguers just haven't been feeling that, especially yourman Mercedes. You mentioned it in the interview. Jerman Mercedes felt like nobody really believed in him, and this company came to him and said, we're gonna get view a boatload of cash because we believe in you and we expect that you were going to be a major leaguer and you'll be able to pay us back tenfold. And he said, you know what, that's worth it. And that's why the whole concept of BLA is so interesting. And she was just obviously fantastic.
00:28:19
Speaker 2: She was awesome. You got our thoughts on it right away in April, you got Solidad O'Brien's thoughts on it, who as a non biased journalist, did a great fifteen minute feature story again. Go check it out Real Sports with Brian Gummel on HBO. You can stream it on HBO Max. We got her thoughts on it today at the end of June and in early July Full Transparency. I submitted an interview request to Big League Advance. We want Michael Swimmer on to have a conversation about it because I kind of agree with Solida O'Brien. I think this does a service and it's not slimy. I think swimmer is doing a really good thing for minor league baseball players because they need money. And the reality is Fernando Tatis made three hundred and forty million dollars. He's gonna get BLA thirty four. He's still got He's still got three hundred million dollars.
00:29:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's still pretty good and something. I obviously want to ask Michael Schwimer about the entire business model and all that, but I really want to find out how they're evaluating these players. I really want to find out about the data. I doubt he'll tell us because it's probably a secret formula. It's like the Coca Cola formula, like sold the Dad mentioned. But I really want to know what kind of numbers they are looking at. I assume they're looking at everything, but I just find that so interesting how they're projecting these guys. Because we mentioned Fernanda a Tatis junior. When they originally signed him, he was not this top tippity top prospect he was. Remember he was traded from the Chicago White Sox to the Padres for James Shields. He was not this number one, number one he was.
00:29:47
Speaker 2: He was a big name, and he eventually rose into the top five of prospects.
00:29:50
Speaker 1: In me, it was a big name, but he wasn't He wasn't a no doubter at the time.
00:29:56
Speaker 2: He was I mean pretty much straight up, like we can't. We can't discredit Eric Johnson as a plug and play bullpen piece for a year or two. But like you know, Tatis was a relatively big name, but a great conversation and we just hit the time limit on our zoom, so we are going to let you go. But Pete, you're in Omaha. Follow along on our social media as just Baseball Fans on TikTok and Instagram, just bb media on Twitter, myself at Jack Underscore, McMullin eleven on Twitter you at Peter Apple twenty three on Twitter. You've got a bunch of good coverage coming from Omaha. And I don't know, I'll keep liking tweets and you know, say some funny stuff every now and again.
00:30:35
Speaker 1: Yankees Red Sox this weekend as well, on top of the College World Series, and also come stream with us on Hero It's A's co watching app. It's gonna be awesome. We're gonna be doing some live streams. You get to watch the College Baseball World Series and chat along with us. I'm excited for this Yankees Red Sox series this weekend.
00:30:54
Speaker 2: Though, just in the nick of time. See everybody, Thank you, everybody.
