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This is Lauren Kaufman and welcome to the innovators mindset podcast.
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There we go.
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Look at that.
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That's a big deal.
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Hey, it's like interesting because you know, a lot of people have been doing it
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and I'm just seeing like, how good is your timing?
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How good is my timing?
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And so I just be able to press that button.
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Right.
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It was great.
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You did a great job.
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Yeah.
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Well, I've listened to enough of your podcast, you know, I know.
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You told me, but wait a minute.
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I'm the host now.
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Right.
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So I start this podcast, right, George?
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You do.
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So, uh, I am, I am just like deeply grateful to be here.
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And when you asked me to host this podcast, it was like a total full,
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full circle moment for me because, uh, it all started with the innovators
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mindset for me many years ago.
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I know the book is 10 years old now, uh, but I discovered it.
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I want to say like six years ago or so.
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And it definitely changed the trajectory of my thinking around learning around
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teaching about the way I lead, um, and interact at every level in education.
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So the fact that you just invited me here, uh, this is a great moment for me
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because let me tell you something.
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This book Forward Together is absolutely incredible.
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I love it.
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I am so happy that this book is out in the world right now.
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And I was so enthusiastic when you sent this book to me, which by the way, you
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sent a book to me to preview in the holiday chaos, I was finishing projects
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for work.
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Um, it was a little bit of a crazy week, but we do the things that we
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value and we prioritize.
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And I was like, I'm making this happen.
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And I remember I had, my kids even had stuff that week and I was going to
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sports and I was running here and running there and running meetings.
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And it would be like nine o'clock at night.
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And I said, I'm going to finish this book because I need to
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get a George, the endorsement.
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Um, and I read it in two sittings.
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I probably would have read it in one sitting.
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I just didn't have the capacity to do that.
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And, and if I wasn't falling asleep, I probably would have finished it in one
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sitting because of the book.
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That's what you're saying.
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No, no, no.
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Oh, let me make that clear.
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Let me make that clear.
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I mean, I am in bed, you know, by like 10 o'clock every night passed out sleeping.
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I wake up pretty early in the morning and it was also a challenge for me because I
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wasn't reading it the first time around the way I normally read books.
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When I read a book that I'm loving, I open the notes section to my smartphone
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immediately, and I start taking notes about the book, all the quotes
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that are resonating with me.
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And as I'm reading it, I go, oh my gosh, I love this.
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Oh my gosh.
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I love that.
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Like every single sentence to me practically was a quote that I
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could revisit time and time again.
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So I knew that over the holiday break, I would need to revisit the book, which by
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the way, thank you for sending me the cleanest copy because I don't have the
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hard copy yet, um, in my hands.
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And that's exactly the way I read it, the way I like to read it the other day.
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And I just, I had to text you immediately.
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Oh my goodness.
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I think that this book, I'm confident that this book is going to be a staple.
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Um, it's one of those timeless books, just like the innovators mindset that
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will be revisited by educators, by leaders, by communities who are looking
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to change the trajectory of their path together, not just as a one person.
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As, as a solo show.
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Right.
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But together as a community.
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So, um, you know, my first question for you, George, really before you get
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your questions, I gotta say, first of all, if anyone doesn't know Lauren,
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she's been on, how many times you've been on my podcast?
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It's been several times now.
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It's like the fourth time, maybe fourth or fifth, maybe the third or fourth time.
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Yeah.
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And so one of the reasons there's actually a few reasons
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why I asked Lauren to read this.
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First of all, she's a very good friend and I appreciate it.
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And one of the things that I do, and it's like a little
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behind the scenes with people.
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And I'm very adamant about this.
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Uh, a lot of people write endorsements for books and don't actually read the
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book, which dry, like just drives me bonkers.
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I, I just hate it.
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And I will never endorse a book unless I read the entire thing.
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Cause if my name's going on it, like I want to know what is in that book.
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And so every endorsement, one of the things that I really appreciate is
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that people read the entire book and they shared that with me and talked
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about that, and so I do know you and Lauren actually is, uh, works at the
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district level in long Island.
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A lot of the people that actually referenced in the book, you know, in a
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very, uh, distinguished way, which is really fascinating.
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So I know that connected, um, with you in many ways.
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And also Lauren has an incredible blog and she's a very gifted writer.
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So there's a little nervousness when, you know, you're giving
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to someone who writes, you know, continuously has their own book
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out, has done some great stuff.
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And so I, when you, I, I really appreciated the, the endorsement that
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you wrote, um, but that you reread it without me asking you to reread it.
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And then you talked about how, you know, how much of an impact it could make.
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Uh, that really, it was right after I did like a horribly long run and I was
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exhausted and I saw it and I was just like, oh, this is like the best message you get
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ever.
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So you get three questions here.
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I know, even though you're the host, there is one I have for you.
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And then it's all, then the show, the rest of the show is yours.
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So, um, I think one of the things that I wanted to do this, why I asked people to
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guest host this is because like, I wanted their questions, whatever resonated with
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you and being at the district level, but like, what was your takeaway, you know,
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especially specifically in the work that you do, like what, what, what really
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resonated with you and like, why could this help, you know, someone in your
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position or some, someone doing something similar?
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Sure.
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Uh, this is pretty easy for me to answer.
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Uh, there were so many aspects of this book that resonated with me, like I said
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before, and wait, before I give you this answer, I just want to thank you for
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saying all that nice and kind stuff.
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It's all true.
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You know, I only say two things, so that's, I don't just compliment for the
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sake of complimenting.
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That's not me.
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I know you don't.
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And, uh, one of the things I appreciate about our friendship is that you have
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this ability to tell me what I'm doing well, and you guide me when you feel I
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can do better.
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Uh, but you know, with that said, this book for me, as I was reading it and I
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was going through every principle and every part of the book, uh, for me, I,
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first of all, I felt like you were speaking right to me and that feels good
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when you read a book because you don't want a book that feels like a white paper
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all the time, like just a bunch of research, which that's important too.
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I read a lot of research in my role and I need to know that stuff.
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So I'm not saying that's not important, but I felt like you were opening this
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path for me, like you've done for me so many times before.
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Uh, you've been a guide for me already.
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And I just feel like that's just opened another path, guiding me to a new
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destination, to my next destination.
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And I've served in a lot of roles in education.
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This is my 20th year in education.
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I've been a classroom teacher.
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I've been a literacy specialist at the elementary and middle school level.
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I've been an instructional coach.
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I've been an assistant principal.
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Now I'm a district leader with a lens on literacy and education right now.
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So as I'm reading this book, I'm bringing all of these lenses to the
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text and the way that I'm transacting with the text and taking it all in.
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And for me, this comes at the perfect time because we have been on the
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precipice of change and evolution, which we always were in education.
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But I think post 2020, there have been so many changes happening so quickly
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that one of the things I loved about this book is you didn't give this book.
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You're not telling people what to do in education, right?
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You're not saying this is the framework.
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This is the one way, this is the guide.
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You are asking people in a very invitational tone to come together, to
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work together, to listen intently together, to honor one another, where
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we've been, where we are and where we're going in a way that makes you feel like
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it's okay to encounter these obstacles that we're facing in education with an
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open mind and an open heart and to invite people, to continue to invite people,
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to have a seat at the table, even when they have perspectives that
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feel different than your own.
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And something that stood out to me was that when you work with groups of
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educators across the country, that you want to know, is there something that I
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said that you mentioned in the book?
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Is there something that I said that you don't agree with today?
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Because I want you to tell me right here and now, it's not going
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to help after the fact, right?
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Let's have this conversation together.
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And I want to learn from it because I can still learn.
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So something that really resonated with me in the work that I do with this book
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is that there are lots of opinions around teaching and learning and
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education and literacy and things.
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And I just feel like I have become more open over the past several years
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into hearing all the perspectives.
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And I have learned from every single person, every single conversation, big
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and small, whether it was people who are in the room with me or things that I've
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heard, conversations that I've heard outside of the room, it also confirmed
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or reaffirmed that we have to notice.
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We have to have the ability to not just always enter a conversation just to talk
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or to speak or say our piece, but to notice what's happening around us, to
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look at not what people, not just what they say, but what they do, right?
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And when we notice, we can take what we notice and we can make something
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and build something better together.
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The piece where you also talk about confidence, which is one of the lessons
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I'm carrying forward this year is to continue to build confidence in the work
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that I do, is it's just noticing really that you got here for a reason, you know,
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to respect the path where you've been, where you are now, and to think about
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that things are always changing as you move forward and that you have to have
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comfort with living with some failure, you know, living with some
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obstacles and learning from that.
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So I think that's really, I know that was a lot, but there is a
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lot in this book that resonated with me.
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When we were talking yesterday, you actually, I mean, I pulled it up and I
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actually put it in a card because I was, you know, even when I wrote it, it's
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something I'm like, I don't know what's going to resonate with people.
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And sometimes people say something to me and I'm like, oh yeah, that
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was a good point.
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And it was, uh, the one quote you shared with me, he said, the goal
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isn't to hand you answers.
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It's to offer a lens so you can make a better sense of your own context.
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And I think this is a really big thing in education and something I really
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gravitated towards over the years.
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I don't like being told what to do.
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And that is like, as soon as you tell me you have to do this, I, I
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like go the opposite way.
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I'm like, no, I'm actually not going to do it now because you trying to force
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this upon me and it makes me like kind of intuitively want to push back.
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And so that's something I'm really thoughtful of when I go into a district
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like, Hey, I'm just sharing some perspectives for you, but you got to
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like figure out, cause you, you know, your own context better than anybody.
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And a lot of the feedback, and I really appreciate this on the book was that
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it's not in a condescending tone.
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It's a conversational tone, which you had mentioned.
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And, but, but ultimately saying like, Hey, I'm not, and you know, some people
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might think I'm, you know, not taking positions for distinct reason.
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And there is like, if you want a vision of education, read the innovators
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mindset, because I pre create a really, I think compelling vision there, but
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that's not what this book is.
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It's for you to like, you figure out where you're trying to go.
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And as you said, where you've been, where you want to go through that process,
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but it is that own context.
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I think that really matters.
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So when you were saying that to me, that made me feel very validated
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because, you know, you, you want people to kind of figure
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out where they are on that path.
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So I love that feedback.
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I do think that this book forward together is an important read.
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With the innovators mindset, because you can't do anything without your
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community, every level of your community with an education and not just an
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education, but this book goes beyond education, right?
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So, so you speak to education directly in this book, but I was thinking about
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other places I've been, other careers that I've had, even prior to education.
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I look around me at my friends who are in different fields.
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And I was thinking that the importance of community is essential because you
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can't make teach great teaching and learning happen.
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You can't embrace those eight characteristics of the innovators
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mindset without having the support.
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Of community.
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So I think there's a nice bridge there between your two books.
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I know we're talking about forward together, but when I was reading
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forward together, I couldn't help but think about the innovators mindset
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because that can't happen without the community piece.
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Love it.
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I re and I really appreciate, you know, the you're trying when you're writing
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something, and I know you understand this from your experience of writing.
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You're you're not like, I hate, like I said, I don't like being told what to do.
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I really try.
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And I was thinking about this even today, when I see like an Instagram
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post or a Tik TOK, it's like, you should, I'm like, no, whatever
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you're about to say, I don't care anymore.
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Like, so I always try to say like, Hey, here's something that works for me.
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Or here's where I messed up and try to figure out how to make it right.
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And I think people appreciated that approach.
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Cause it's not me telling you, it's like, Hey, here's even.
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And I think a lot of people, one of the things that people have really
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said about the book that is the vulnerability of like talking about
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mistakes I've made and why they did the exact opposite of what I had hoped for
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in that process and really identifying that, and I've said this probably a
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million times last month or so the, the focus on sharing my hindsight to, you
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know, inform someone's or, you know, foresight to not make some of those
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mistakes or to catch them before they really happen in a, in a bad direction.
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So I do appreciate that because I think.
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I hope that, you know, you read this in your role and you have
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some really beneficial takeaways.
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And, you know, like I always think about the idea of learning targets
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and people will talk about this, but really you always, when people walk
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into any room, they have different experiences, they have different
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places that they're at and different ones.
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So everyone should take away their own things.
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Right.
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And so all to me, that really embodies the idea that all learning is
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personal or all of it is personal.
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And that's, I appreciate it.
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You know, share that context.
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Cause you know, if you're a teacher in the classroom, I hope you'll get a lot
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of stuff from this book as well, but it will be different than maybe what
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you do in your current role.
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And if you change roles in two years, then, you know, the book
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might have different things for you.
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It's not like, Hey, this is only for these people.
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It's for like, wherever you're at, what, what resonates with you?
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00:17:08,319
So that really matters now.
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That was my question.
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So.
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Uh, that's it.
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I got now it's back to back to the Lauren show, which I love so much.
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So way less pressure on me to come up with questions.
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So.
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00:17:24,500
You know, I just have to say one thing before I ask my first question.
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Uh, you're reminding me of something that you illuminate in this book,
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which is the importance of story.
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And people need, you talk about people need to see themselves in a story and
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you share a really cool story about an interaction you had with somebody at
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an event that you were at who disagreed with you and I'll, and I won't tell
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the whole story because I would love for people to experience it.
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For the first time, I think it just really resonated with me.
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Um, so I think we have to share our stories.
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We have to tell our stories, the times that we've not only succeeded, but the
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times we've made mistakes and you do that so beautifully throughout this book.
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00:18:14,739
Um, so this book weaves together, uh, some great quotes, uh, that you always
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have, I feel like you write in quotes.
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Uh, but story, and then here's what this can look like in your community.
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It's actionable and ideas to think about that leaders and educators, students who
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are the most important stakeholders in our communities, right?
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00:18:33,099
It's all about the students.
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Um, what can we do tomorrow to lead change in a really
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intentional and purposeful way?
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00:18:46,020
And I just need to share before my first question that you did share about
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post in your book that I quickly looked up about the different types
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of stories and the story arcs.
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00:19:00,339
And, oh my goodness, as a literacy person, I immediately schedule sent an email to
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00:19:05,699
my middle school and high school English teachers, um, that sharing that with them.
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00:19:11,140
And I tell them where I get it from, but it's, um, I just want to say when we
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00:19:15,060
talk about ideas you can implement tomorrow, I immediately did a schedule
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00:19:23,540
send email to share, so that part, there's one part and it is, I, I
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00:19:27,300
actually re read it myself like many times.
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00:19:30,300
And there's one line that I said that made me laugh because I talked about
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story arc and how there should be an emotional connection.
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00:19:38,180
And I said that, you know, a lot of PD professional learning is flat,
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like it's a flat line.
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And I said, do you know what else?
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There's a flat line.
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It's when you're dead.
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Oh my gosh.
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Yes.
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Right.
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That's, that's the other flat line is you're dead.
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I did laugh a lot in this book too.
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It was very funny.
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I was like, what was I thinking when I wrote that?
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But
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00:20:03,939
definitely will wake people up, uh, when they read that now they'll be up.
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00:20:05,859
I am confident the whole time they're reading this book.
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Not like me falling asleep.
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That was only because I was tired.
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Okay.
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00:20:14,619
So here's, here's my first question for you.
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00:20:22,500
Um, you have been blogging and writing and co-writing books for many, many years
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00:20:27,619
and books that have had such an impact on educational communities.
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00:20:34,380
Um, so as you think about forward together now, what makes you the most
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00:20:37,180
proud about this particular book?
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00:20:42,780
I just think that first of all, there's, I think it's, there's a huge
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issue and education right now.
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There's a lot of contentiousness as, you know, as kind of mentioned in the title.
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And I, I don't think it needs to be that way.
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00:20:59,260
And in all honesty, sometimes, and I kind of emulate this myself, we maybe create
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00:21:02,739
that problem sometimes ourselves, and maybe we don't even create the problem,
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00:21:05,780
but then really kind of looking at the solution.
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00:21:09,900
So when I like look back at some of the stories, I think it's kind
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00:21:14,540
resonating what education can be, what happens when we do come together
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00:21:15,660
and how powerful that can be.
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00:21:21,339
But it was also, and I think this is where I take a lot of pride in it is I grew up
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00:21:27,859
in a small town and really benefited from just a community that worked together.
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00:21:35,420
And I'm of the age where, and I maybe shouldn't say this, where you, if you
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00:21:40,699
got in trouble at school and you got a call home, you were also getting in
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00:21:45,699
trouble at home, like it was that, that was, that was the time that I grew up in.
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00:21:51,579
And there is such a cohesion in how people work together and like how my
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00:21:58,219
parents and it was not, Hey, let's make sure you really give it to George and
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00:21:59,540
gets home because he deserves it.
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00:22:04,819
It's like, Hey, we have to make sure together that we help kids be successful.
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00:22:09,900
And so it's almost like, Hey, are there's, there's a little like, Hey,
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00:22:12,699
here's what we can be in the future, but also here's what we can learn from a
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00:22:14,739
really powerful past where schools.
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00:22:17,219
We're really worked together with families.
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00:22:21,979
And, and I don't want to say like, Hey, schools are the
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00:22:23,380
issue and families are right.
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00:22:26,699
I'm not, that is not the argument I'm making in any context.
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00:22:30,819
It's, it's just saying, Hey, like, what is really kind of, what's this, what
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00:22:34,380
happens when we kind of focus on how we bring people in and how we have those
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00:22:38,260
conversations and it's, you know, you can say like, Hey, parents are, you know,
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00:22:42,420
and I don't, I don't like saying parents or teachers as like a whole group, like
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00:22:46,900
parents are bad, teachers are bad, anything like that, but it is when you
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00:22:51,020
kind of get people on side and you get work and they feel ownership, then that's,
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00:22:57,260
and I even put it right in the, the, um, dedication is it was to all the
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00:23:01,459
communities that really focus on that because when families and schools work
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00:23:04,219
together, they double the chance of success for a kid.
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00:23:09,819
And I just think that it's kind of like an ode to my experience in school and
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00:23:13,780
really growing out of a great community that really came together.
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00:23:16,579
I know this, I don't, I don't, I'm like a little nervous to bring this up.
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00:23:23,699
There is a, there is a huge, um, accident where I grew up, um, with the hockey team
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00:23:25,939
there, and it was probably about seven years ago.
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00:23:28,420
It was horror, like it was horror, horrible.
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00:23:34,180
And a lot of people have died and it's one of the work is the worst thing that
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00:23:35,219
ever happened in that community.
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00:23:43,380
And it was also like, there's just a little bit of comfort knowing that that
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00:23:46,300
was just such a good community and they would support each other
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00:23:47,900
through something so horrific.
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00:23:53,780
And I, like, I know that's, but I, you know, I, you never want anything
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00:23:57,660
that happened like that, but it was just like, it, it impacted so many people.
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00:23:59,380
And it's like, thank goodness.
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00:24:01,979
There's so that school and that community works together.
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00:24:05,819
Cause like I, it'd be so hard to deal with this if they didn't.
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00:24:11,140
And I think about that all the time and how proud I am from growing, growing up
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00:24:11,140 -->
00:24:16,140
in that community and watching the school really support me and, and that, I think
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00:24:16,140 -->
00:24:19,540
that's one of the things I'm really passionate about and why I'm so proud of
400
00:24:19,540 -->
00:24:29,579
this, the other thing that, um, I think I'm really proud of is that this book
401
00:24:29,579 -->
00:24:34,819
did not exist in my mind, uh, one July morning.
402
00:24:34,979 -->
00:24:39,699
And then I saw something from someone, you know, Paul Romanelli from
403
00:24:39,699 -->
00:24:40,939
him and was actually from him.
404
00:24:40,939 -->
00:24:44,780
And it was from, I don't know if you know, Jesse, is it Jesse Foss?
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00:24:45,020 -->
00:24:47,020
He's he's a, he's a teacher there.
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00:24:47,020 -->
00:24:48,020
He tweeted something.
407
00:24:48,020 -->
00:24:48,939
He just tagged me in it.
408
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00:24:53,099
And I wasn't even going to watch what he had shared.
409
00:24:53,099 -->
00:24:57,699
I was at the gym, literally at the time I was just finishing up working out and I
410
00:24:57,699 -->
00:24:58,780
ended up watching it.
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00:24:59,140 -->
00:25:03,859
And within moments I was like, I have an idea for a book and it's something that
412
00:25:03,859 -->
00:25:07,660
you can kind of like, I've been writing about kind of this stuff, you know, I've
413
00:25:07,660 -->
00:25:14,060
been, I've been writing so much and really trying to be the model of, you know, not
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00:25:14,060 -->
00:25:18,219
arguing with people, but trying to have discussions rather than debates and doing
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00:25:18,219 -->
00:25:21,619
that, that's what I'm really trying to be focused on or trying to focus on.
416
00:25:22,260 -->
00:25:31,859
And so that book was not only inspired by my experience as a student, but seeing
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00:25:31,859 -->
00:25:33,459
what amazing schools are already doing.
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00:25:35,859
And cause we were like, here's this problem.
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00:25:35,859 -->
00:25:36,500
Here's this problem.
420
00:25:36,500 -->
00:25:39,900
Like actually there's a lot of people doing this really well right now.
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00:25:44,660
And so that, I think that's one of the things I'm most proud of is that it's
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00:25:44,660 -->
00:25:47,699
like, Hey, this, and I said, this is an inverse mindset.
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00:25:52,180
Um, basically somebody somewhere is solving the problem.
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00:25:52,180 -->
00:25:53,900
You say like, can't be solved.
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00:25:55,300
Like you just got to find them.
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00:25:55,380 -->
00:25:58,420
And so I was hopefully illuminating some of these really great districts.
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00:26:00,540
And I, it's funny cause we're recording this.
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00:26:06,900
I don't even know if that teacher knows that he inspired this book, but I'm
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00:26:06,900 -->
00:26:13,660
sending a book to Paul and Jesse and I'm like excited for him cause it's right in
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00:26:13,660 -->
00:26:19,099
the end that it's, so I think it's partly some of my experience and I think really
431
00:26:19,099 -->
00:26:22,500
helped me to grow into the adults.
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00:26:22,540 -->
00:26:27,939
I am not that like I have tons of flaws obviously, but also because there's
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00:26:27,939 -->
00:26:31,500
already really great schools that are really focusing on building community.
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00:26:35,300
And I know you worked with Paul at a, I think at a different district.
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00:26:36,140 -->
00:26:39,020
Yeah, I don't think it, I don't think, I don't think this is surprising
436
00:26:39,819 -->
00:26:45,619
to you that Paul's district, because I'm, you know, how Paul is, is a place that
437
00:26:45,619 -->
00:26:51,219
really does everything to bring the community in and work with them, not
438
00:26:51,380 -->
00:26:53,859
bring them in to tell them what they're doing, but to work with them.
439
00:26:53,979 -->
00:26:57,780
And I think that's, I think that's what I'm most proud of is that it already,
440
00:26:57,819 -->
00:26:59,380
this is already being done.
441
00:26:59,579 -->
00:27:02,260
And so just trying to find as many of those stories as possible and
442
00:27:02,260 -->
00:27:05,699
highlighting them and, you know, showing the pathway they've already
443
00:27:05,699 -->
00:27:06,979
illuminated for so many schools.
444
00:27:07,780 -->
00:27:08,219
Yeah.
445
00:27:08,219 -->
00:27:09,500
Thank you for sharing that.
446
00:27:09,500 -->
00:27:15,900
And that was a fun surprise at the end to see how his district was highlighted,
447
00:27:15,900 -->
00:27:17,859
but it totally doesn't surprise me.
448
00:27:17,859 -->
00:27:21,619
And that was also a full circle moment for me because he had given me an
449
00:27:21,619 -->
00:27:25,500
opportunity when I brought him the innovators mindset, when I was running
450
00:27:25,500 -->
00:27:27,420
a mentor program in that district.
451
00:27:27,420 -->
00:27:29,020
And that's really how we connected.
452
00:27:29,020 -->
00:27:32,739
So, I don't know if you remember this, but you connected me and Paul,
453
00:27:32,739 -->
00:27:36,900
cause I think I spoke virtually to your district because you suggested, and
454
00:27:36,900 -->
00:27:39,260
that was the first time I came out with Paul and then he went to a new district.
455
00:27:39,260 -->
00:27:40,859
He brought me in, you know, so.
456
00:27:41,540 -->
00:27:43,380
Well, there's lots of circles here, right?
457
00:27:43,500 -->
00:27:44,339
It's awesome.
458
00:27:44,339 -->
00:27:45,540
Lots of circles.
459
00:27:45,540 -->
00:27:47,540
He's a great educator, a great leader.
460
00:27:47,540 -->
00:27:50,660
And I'm so glad that his district is highlighted in your book.
461
00:27:50,660 -->
00:27:51,660
It's doing great.
462
00:27:51,699 -->
00:27:53,339
Highlighted and inspired the book.
463
00:27:53,339 -->
00:27:53,660
So.
464
00:27:53,979 -->
00:27:57,260
And inspired the book that that's, that's pretty amazing.
465
00:27:57,260 -->
00:28:00,219
So I feel proud of that and I'm not surprised.
466
00:28:00,219 -->
00:28:02,140
So thank you for sharing that.
467
00:28:02,140 -->
00:28:04,459
And, and, and it was fun to see.
468
00:28:05,099 -->
00:28:11,020
And, you know, you say in the book that the intention, and this is a quote from the book,
469
00:28:11,020 -->
00:28:16,339
that the intention of this book is to initiate productive conversations with our communities.
470
00:28:16,900 -->
00:28:22,140
But the answer you were looking for as Whitney Houston shares is within you.
471
00:28:23,819 -->
00:28:24,540
Is within you.
472
00:28:24,540 -->
00:28:27,339
So, and you say, if you look for obstacles, you'll find them.
473
00:28:27,339 -->
00:28:32,780
If you look for opportunities for, and with your community, they might find you.
474
00:28:33,260 -->
00:28:39,979
So I think that what you just shared, that story of how you were inspired by something
475
00:28:39,979 -->
00:28:44,939
Paul's district was doing, and that inspired you to write the book, that found, it almost
476
00:28:44,939 -->
00:28:45,979
found you, right?
477
00:28:46,619 -->
00:28:48,140
As an opportunity to write this.
478
00:28:48,140 -->
00:28:53,660
It's like, you know, this, and this is the thing, you buy a new car, right?
479
00:28:53,660 -->
00:28:54,619
And you barely see them.
480
00:28:55,979 -->
00:28:59,260
And then as soon as you buy that car, you see them over and over and over again.
481
00:28:59,260 -->
00:28:59,739
Right?
482
00:28:59,739 -->
00:29:05,260
And it's like, basically whatever you have on your mind tends to find you over and over
483
00:29:05,260 -->
00:29:05,579
again.
484
00:29:05,579 -->
00:29:07,180
And it's not because it tends to find you.
485
00:29:07,180 -->
00:29:08,859
You just become so much more aware of it.
486
00:29:09,420 -->
00:29:12,780
And I think that's something I really believe in.
487
00:29:12,780 -->
00:29:16,699
You know, as soon as I, you know, as soon as I started really focusing on innovation
488
00:29:16,699 -->
00:29:19,339
years ago, I could see it in everything.
489
00:29:19,339 -->
00:29:23,420
I can see it, you know, in a commercial and this and that, because it is something that's
490
00:29:23,420 -->
00:29:23,900
on my mind.
491
00:29:23,900 -->
00:29:25,180
So that's the thing.
492
00:29:25,180 -->
00:29:26,540
You're always looking for those opportunities.
493
00:29:26,540 -->
00:29:27,500
You're looking for that.
494
00:29:27,500 -->
00:29:28,939
But if you're like, Oh, this is horrible.
495
00:29:28,939 -->
00:29:29,500
This is horrible.
496
00:29:29,500 -->
00:29:29,819
Guess what?
497
00:29:29,819 -->
00:29:31,339
You're gonna find a bunch of horrible stuff.
498
00:29:31,339 -->
00:29:32,459
That's, that's how that works.
499
00:29:32,459 -->
00:29:37,900
So it is really where your mentality is focused is not that those things necessarily find
500
00:29:37,900 -->
00:29:41,420
you, but they, they tend to, when you're, when you're just kind of focused on those
501
00:29:41,420 -->
00:29:41,660
things.
502
00:29:42,780 -->
00:29:43,420
Absolutely.
503
00:29:44,380 -->
00:29:52,300
You know, this book feels so deeply reflective and grounded in the idea of becoming rather
504
00:29:52,300 -->
00:29:53,180
than arriving.
505
00:29:54,380 -->
00:29:55,819
We're still becoming right.
506
00:29:56,699 -->
00:29:57,819
We never get there.
507
00:29:57,819 -->
00:29:59,020
We never arrive.
508
00:30:00,219 -->
00:30:08,380
So how did your own growth as a leader and learner shape the way you wrote forward together?
509
00:30:09,660 -->
00:30:09,900
Yeah.
510
00:30:09,900 -->
00:30:15,739
And I think that's, you know, kind of how I start off the book with a, a blog post that
511
00:30:15,739 -->
00:30:19,739
and you and I talked about this yesterday that I'm super embarrassed by that.
512
00:30:19,739 -->
00:30:24,540
I have, I wrote, but I'm also proud of that.
513
00:30:24,540 -->
00:30:26,859
I've grown and can look back on that.
514
00:30:26,859 -->
00:30:28,540
And that's one of the things I love about blogging.
515
00:30:28,540 -->
00:30:30,780
I think that post was written in 2011.
516
00:30:30,780 -->
00:30:33,260
Here we are in, you know, entering 2026.
517
00:30:33,260 -->
00:30:35,180
People are listening to this in 2026.
518
00:30:35,180 -->
00:30:41,099
So almost 15 years later, and I still, that post is still up on my site and it's, it's
519
00:30:41,099 -->
00:30:48,140
saying like, you know, I keep it there because it is a good reminder of how much I've grown,
520
00:30:48,140 -->
00:30:49,979
how much I think differently about it.
521
00:30:49,979 -->
00:30:56,060
And even the argument saying that I still believe in many of the things I said, but
522
00:30:56,060 -->
00:30:57,500
my approach was terrible.
523
00:30:57,500 -->
00:31:00,540
And I actually dismissed a lot of people through this.
524
00:31:00,540 -->
00:31:06,060
And so again, when you're looking for stuff, I was at a conference last year and I saw
525
00:31:06,060 -->
00:31:09,260
someone talking about de-emphasizing memorization.
526
00:31:09,260 -->
00:31:15,420
And so I know that many of the districts you've worked with, you know, in your career, if
527
00:31:15,420 -->
00:31:22,219
you said to your staff, we need to de-emphasize memorization, you would half your staff immediately
528
00:31:22,219 -->
00:31:25,900
half your staff would be arguing about it and saying, why?
529
00:31:25,900 -->
00:31:28,140
No, this is so crucial, et cetera, et cetera.
530
00:31:28,140 -->
00:31:32,459
And some people like, no, we have Google, we have chat GPT, we don't need to do those
531
00:31:32,459 -->
00:31:33,260
things anymore.
532
00:31:33,260 -->
00:31:37,819
And so some of those little statements create that divide and that process.
533
00:31:37,819 -->
00:31:41,900
And so when, when you hear that term, like de-emphasize memorization, or we don't need
534
00:31:41,900 -->
00:31:46,300
to do this, we don't need this immediately feel people feel you are taking something
535
00:31:46,300 -->
00:31:47,260
away from them.
536
00:31:47,260 -->
00:31:47,500
Right.
537
00:31:48,060 -->
00:31:54,219
So when I kind of shifted, my thinking is like, Hey, when we focus on really deep learning,
538
00:31:54,219 -->
00:31:56,619
and that is a emphasis on the work that we do.
539
00:31:58,219 -->
00:32:02,540
By default, if you get a kid to really deeply understand something, they'll memorize it.
540
00:32:03,260 -->
00:32:08,540
And so, so now you're thinking about you're honoring the people still that believe memorization
541
00:32:08,540 -->
00:32:09,579
is really, really crucial.
542
00:32:09,579 -->
00:32:12,939
But you're also saying like, Hey, like, but we need to go beyond.
543
00:32:12,939 -->
00:32:16,699
And you're, you're focusing them not on what they're losing, but what they have, they have
544
00:32:16,699 -->
00:32:21,260
the opportunity to aspire toward while building upon the great work they're already doing.
545
00:32:21,260 -->
00:32:26,540
But also your challenge to the people a little bit like, yeah, memorization actually is kind
546
00:32:26,540 -->
00:32:27,099
of crucial.
547
00:32:27,099 -->
00:32:31,099
You should know certain things, because then you can really go deeply when, when you know
548
00:32:31,099 -->
00:32:31,739
that too.
549
00:32:31,739 -->
00:32:35,979
And so you're trying to be really thoughtful of how you bring people together.
550
00:32:35,979 -->
00:32:42,300
And that's, I think that's where the reflection came in is how many times was I focused on
551
00:32:43,020 -->
00:32:47,739
taking away something without showing them what is possible.
552
00:32:47,739 -->
00:32:54,219
And, and again, what you mentioned earlier, where they were not, where they not only fit
553
00:32:54,219 -->
00:32:57,260
into the story, but they were crucial to a success.
554
00:32:57,260 -->
00:32:59,739
And that is a lot.
555
00:32:59,739 -->
00:33:05,339
It's not that I disagree with many of my ideas on education that I've had over the years,
556
00:33:05,339 -->
00:33:11,020
including in that blog post that I went through, it is, how did I get the people who might
557
00:33:11,020 -->
00:33:15,819
not have agreed with me to kind of see their, their place in that and really kind of be
558
00:33:15,819 -->
00:33:20,140
thoughtful that you even see like in my blog, I still do this to this day.
559
00:33:20,140 -->
00:33:22,619
I'll say things like, I'm not saying.
560
00:33:23,900 -->
00:33:29,020
And so it's basically, I know, like, I'm really trying to be understanding of the pushback
561
00:33:29,020 -->
00:33:29,819
that could happen.
562
00:33:29,819 -->
00:33:34,459
So I make sure that I address that and say, you know, this is, this is not a thing that's
563
00:33:34,459 -->
00:33:35,260
being taken away.
564
00:33:35,260 -->
00:33:36,780
Here's the opportunity that exists.
565
00:33:36,780 -->
00:33:39,339
And that's where I've really grown.
566
00:33:39,339 -->
00:33:42,300
And, you know, you, I challenged you years ago to blog.
567
00:33:42,859 -->
00:33:48,219
And I think what it does to you, there's a huge difference between writing in a journal
568
00:33:48,219 -->
00:33:51,900
that no one's ever going to read to writing in a blog where, you know, anyone can read
569
00:33:51,900 -->
00:33:55,180
because you're, you're kind of thinking, what is the perspective I'm missing?
570
00:33:55,180 -->
00:34:02,459
What is the, what is the hole in my, my, maybe not my argument, but my perspective right
571
00:34:02,459 -->
00:34:05,020
now that I may, I need to address.
572
00:34:05,020 -->
00:34:09,899
And I even wrote a whole post on this chat, GPT or AI make you more empathetic.
573
00:34:11,020 -->
00:34:13,739
And the answer is no, it doesn't.
574
00:34:13,739 -->
00:34:17,820
But if you threw in a post and you say, okay, what am I missing?
575
00:34:17,820 -->
00:34:19,419
Like, what am I missing?
576
00:34:19,419 -->
00:34:22,939
It could actually reveal perspectives that you might not have considered.
577
00:34:22,939 -->
00:34:28,300
And so ultimately it's the human that leverages the technologies to actually understand other
578
00:34:28,300 -->
00:34:29,979
people's perspectives that you might've missed.
579
00:34:30,699 -->
00:34:34,139
That's, I think that was the most important thing.
580
00:34:34,139 -->
00:34:41,739
And trying to illuminate that, you do want people to go, have I done that before?
581
00:34:41,739 -->
00:34:45,100
Like, have I, have I been that issue?
582
00:34:45,100 -->
00:34:48,860
Like, have I, you know, like I'm not, I'm not asking people to change their belief system.
583
00:34:49,580 -->
00:34:52,699
I'm asking them to think about how do they get people to embrace it, right?
584
00:34:52,699 -->
00:34:54,860
Like we're really passionate about something.
585
00:34:54,860 -->
00:35:01,659
You want as many people to embrace it, but do you push them away in how you share it?
586
00:35:01,659 -->
00:35:03,820
And that's, you know, that's what I realized about myself.
587
00:35:03,820 -->
00:35:07,899
And so you're hoping people see themselves in the story that I'm writing and sharing.
588
00:35:08,939 -->
00:35:09,179
Yeah.
589
00:35:09,179 -->
00:35:12,139
You talk about it in the book and also in your talks.
590
00:35:12,139 -->
00:35:15,899
I've heard you say this about the warm bath and the cold shower.
591
00:35:15,899 -->
00:35:18,780
And I think you just described that with the cold shower.
592
00:35:18,780 -->
00:35:20,939
You know, have you done that before?
593
00:35:20,939 -->
00:35:22,540
Have you thought about this before?
594
00:35:22,540 -->
00:35:26,699
And I think that's what you've done for me over the years.
595
00:35:26,699 -->
00:35:31,820
You always get me to think about something that I might not have thought about myself
596
00:35:31,899 -->
00:35:33,979
based on your experiences.
597
00:35:33,979 -->
00:35:40,379
And that's what we hope to do for each other in this life, in this one beautiful life that we have.
598
00:35:40,379 -->
00:35:47,179
You know, I feel like as we evolve as people, as educators,
599
00:35:47,179 -->
00:35:54,459
we want books and writing and content to make us think a little bit differently.
600
00:35:54,459 -->
00:35:59,100
Because as you said before, you don't want to be told what to do all the time.
601
00:35:59,100 -->
00:36:04,780
But if you're gently pushed to think differently in that way that you just explained,
602
00:36:04,780 -->
00:36:06,219
I think that's amazing.
603
00:36:06,219 -->
00:36:09,899
I want to just take a step back and share something
604
00:36:10,780 -->
00:36:14,139
that I think is the reason why I'm so big on conversation.
605
00:36:15,580 -->
00:36:18,540
You reached out to me one day, and I can't remember what it was,
606
00:36:19,100 -->
00:36:21,179
but you had asked for my advice.
607
00:36:21,179 -->
00:36:23,659
And I'm driving, just finished at the gym.
608
00:36:24,219 -->
00:36:28,459
And I said, I'd actually do this, this, and this.
609
00:36:28,459 -->
00:36:31,340
And you're like, no, I think I'm going to do this.
610
00:36:32,300 -->
00:36:35,020
And I listen to you, I'm like, yeah, that's actually a way better idea.
611
00:36:35,659 -->
00:36:38,219
Your idea is way better than what I just said.
612
00:36:38,780 -->
00:36:45,260
And I don't know if you had that idea before we got in the conversation,
613
00:36:45,820 -->
00:36:50,219
or you got it as we're talking.
614
00:36:51,179 -->
00:36:54,540
You're like, no, actually what he's saying, I'm going to do something a little bit different.
615
00:36:55,260 -->
00:36:58,060
But it shows you even when you have the conversation,
616
00:36:58,060 -->
00:36:59,820
and you like maybe ask for perspective,
617
00:37:00,540 -->
00:37:04,060
it might even just you saying out loud could actually change your perspective.
618
00:37:04,060 -->
00:37:11,659
And again, like I didn't say, no, I'm right, you're wrong, do what I'm doing.
619
00:37:11,659 -->
00:37:15,739
I told you me, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's actually way better than what I just said.
620
00:37:15,739 -->
00:37:19,739
And that's where I talk about that confidence scale, right?
621
00:37:20,219 -->
00:37:22,620
To say like, hey, I actually, you know, that's okay.
622
00:37:22,620 -->
00:37:23,179
I got it wrong.
623
00:37:24,139 -->
00:37:25,260
I've done pretty well.
624
00:37:25,260 -->
00:37:28,060
Like I, you know, but I also can get better.
625
00:37:28,060 -->
00:37:32,540
And that's where it is where if you go to the arrogance, no, you're wrong.
626
00:37:32,540 -->
00:37:34,060
I'm right, because I'm smarter than you.
627
00:37:34,060 -->
00:37:36,060
Insecurity, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
628
00:37:36,060 -->
00:37:39,260
Like that, that's where, that's where it's like, no, that's, that's a good thing.
629
00:37:39,260 -->
00:37:42,540
I think that's why we want conversations is sometimes
630
00:37:43,580 -->
00:37:47,020
kind of going back to the answers within you, that answer was within you.
631
00:37:47,580 -->
00:37:51,100
But maybe you need to say something out loud, ask the question.
632
00:37:51,100 -->
00:37:55,419
And I really have this idea that sometimes when you just have a conversation, you,
633
00:37:55,419 -->
00:37:57,820
you leave your own body and you can listen to yourself talk.
634
00:37:57,820 -->
00:38:00,620
And then you start giving yourself advice like you would a friend.
635
00:38:00,620 -->
00:38:01,739
I think you did that that day.
636
00:38:01,739 -->
00:38:05,179
So I think that's, that's why those conversations really matter.
637
00:38:05,179 -->
00:38:09,020
So that was, if you ever heard that podcast, that was Lauren, who I gave terrible advice.
638
00:38:10,379 -->
00:38:14,219
Yeah, I think you sent me that podcast and I do remember the conversation.
639
00:38:14,219 -->
00:38:17,340
And I think the longer we're friends, the more,
640
00:38:17,340 -->
00:38:21,340
I think the less I'm worried about what you're going to think, because
641
00:38:22,139 -->
00:38:24,699
I know that, you know, our friendship is solid.
642
00:38:24,699 -->
00:38:28,860
And all my advice is all the perspectives, I guess, because I believe in you so much.
643
00:38:30,219 -->
00:38:34,860
I believe that you have truly given me wings as have, you know, I just remember.
644
00:38:35,739 -->
00:38:39,340
Great leaders, great mentors, great friends.
645
00:38:39,340 -->
00:38:43,979
They're always going to ground you and give you clarity that you're looking for.
646
00:38:43,979 -->
00:38:48,219
And that's something that you do so well for me and so many others.
647
00:38:48,219 -->
00:38:52,620
And I just want to say, you did mention blogging a lot in this conversation.
648
00:38:52,620 -->
00:38:57,739
And I want to say to your audience that this isn't specific to me.
649
00:38:57,739 -->
00:38:59,419
I know you challenged me to blog.
650
00:39:00,699 -->
00:39:06,540
But I have been in spaces with mutual friends like Megan Lawson, like Alison Epstein.
651
00:39:07,179 -->
00:39:11,179
Katie Novak just shot me an email not too long ago saying,
652
00:39:11,179 -->
00:39:13,979
wait a minute, this George Karas, and she's hysterical.
653
00:39:13,979 -->
00:39:15,260
She's like, this George Karas.
654
00:39:15,260 -->
00:39:17,580
What is he, like the grandfather of blogging?
655
00:39:17,580 -->
00:39:18,379
He's gotten everyone's love.
656
00:39:18,379 -->
00:39:19,979
I don't want to be called grandfather or anything.
657
00:39:20,620 -->
00:39:21,659
But no, no, no.
658
00:39:22,300 -->
00:39:24,060
She was, you know where she was going.
659
00:39:24,860 -->
00:39:30,540
But something that resonated with me, and I do think it connects to your book,
660
00:39:30,540 -->
00:39:35,340
about something you always say to me about me with my blogging and my writing,
661
00:39:35,340 -->
00:39:40,699
or anybody who does something with repetition and makes it a habit.
662
00:39:41,580 -->
00:39:45,739
Just like anything in life, you said, Lauren, I only challenged you.
663
00:39:46,300 -->
00:39:49,419
You actually did it and then continued to do that.
664
00:39:49,419 -->
00:39:52,699
So I think when we think about community,
665
00:39:52,699 -->
00:39:57,020
which is what your book, Forward Together, is so centered on, it's like,
666
00:39:57,020 -->
00:40:01,100
you know, as Dave Burgess would say, I heard him say this in a podcast once,
667
00:40:01,100 -->
00:40:02,139
and it really resonated with me.
668
00:40:02,139 -->
00:40:05,260
And you share a great story with him in the book.
669
00:40:05,260 -->
00:40:09,020
Is he always say, what, he says, what's an idea without implementation?
670
00:40:09,500 -->
00:40:12,780
You know, lots of people have ideas, but are you willing to share it?
671
00:40:12,780 -->
00:40:15,580
Are you willing to go forward with it?
672
00:40:15,580 -->
00:40:18,699
So yeah, this is really hard.
673
00:40:18,699 -->
00:40:19,820
This is my last question.
674
00:40:19,820 -->
00:40:22,780
And I'm really sad because I have like seven questions here,
675
00:40:22,780 -->
00:40:25,179
and I'm trying to choose which one to ask.
676
00:40:25,179 -->
00:40:27,820
But I think I'll go with this one,
677
00:40:27,820 -->
00:40:30,060
and then I'll just ask you the other questions another time.
678
00:40:31,100 -->
00:40:35,500
So as readers engage with this book,
679
00:40:36,459 -->
00:40:41,580
and they bring their own experiences and their own stories into it,
680
00:40:42,939 -->
00:40:51,340
how do you see their voices continuing the work that you started in this book?
681
00:40:53,260 -->
00:40:55,739
Yeah, one of the
682
00:40:58,620 -->
00:41:01,580
anecdote stories I talk about is my former superintendent.
683
00:41:01,580 -->
00:41:02,699
Her name is Marilyn Campbell.
684
00:41:03,419 -->
00:41:06,300
She said to me, like when I became a principal,
685
00:41:06,860 -->
00:41:09,419
she said, you know, one of the things that will really
686
00:41:11,580 -->
00:41:15,580
like will show your impact is when you leave this school,
687
00:41:15,580 -->
00:41:18,860
when you're done, because you'll be done at some point, right?
688
00:41:18,860 -->
00:41:22,939
You don't know when, but you will be done, which is every educator, right?
689
00:41:22,939 -->
00:41:25,500
Wherever you are right now, you will be leaving there at some point.
690
00:41:25,500 -->
00:41:27,500
It could be in two months. It could be in 20 years.
691
00:41:28,620 -->
00:41:29,979
She said, what will your fingerprints be?
692
00:41:29,979 -->
00:41:32,219
How will like people know that you were there?
693
00:41:33,100 -->
00:41:37,979
And what I, you know, like, of course you want to have an impact.
694
00:41:37,979 -->
00:41:41,580
You want to do stuff that, you know, it continues long on after.
695
00:41:41,580 -->
00:41:48,939
But my biggest thing was the impact of the things that I did as a principal
696
00:41:48,939 -->
00:41:52,620
that you would not, you would see other people's fingerprints
697
00:41:53,179 -->
00:41:56,300
over top of mine as well, that we were doing this together.
698
00:41:56,300 -->
00:41:59,659
And I think that's, you know, this about me.
699
00:41:59,659 -->
00:42:01,419
And I think I'm pretty open about this.
700
00:42:01,419 -->
00:42:04,620
I'm super competitive. I'm, I want to be anything I do.
701
00:42:04,620 -->
00:42:07,580
I want to be the best at that's something I'm very passionate about.
702
00:42:07,580 -->
00:42:12,620
And to almost to a fault, it's growing up watching Michael Jordan.
703
00:42:13,580 -->
00:42:18,300
And when you, what you realize when you go into a leadership position,
704
00:42:18,300 -->
00:42:24,219
like you're in right now, is that when you beat others in leadership,
705
00:42:24,219 -->
00:42:27,340
that's actually your biggest failure. That's when you lose.
706
00:42:28,300 -->
00:42:35,100
It's when you, you actually lead other people to doing great things.
707
00:42:35,100 -->
00:42:39,820
It's when you actually get people to lead in your organization
708
00:42:39,820 -->
00:42:42,540
in different aspects and you become the follower as well.
709
00:42:42,540 -->
00:42:44,060
You know, those things are interchangeable.
710
00:42:44,060 -->
00:42:48,699
It's not, and that's, I think that's where I really want to see this going.
711
00:42:48,699 -->
00:42:52,540
And I want to see people's impact is how they impact others
712
00:42:53,100 -->
00:42:55,100
to have their fingerprints on there.
713
00:42:55,100 -->
00:42:59,179
And that ultimately is your fingerprint, which is the weirdest thing to say,
714
00:42:59,179 -->
00:43:02,939
is that you inspiring others to lead you inspiring others to do.
715
00:43:02,939 -->
00:43:04,939
And that's, you know, going back to the competitive nature,
716
00:43:04,939 -->
00:43:11,739
what I learned really quickly is I cannot win in educational leadership.
717
00:43:12,379 -->
00:43:15,100
If it's just about me, the only way that you,
718
00:43:15,100 -->
00:43:18,939
you win and thrive is when other people do great stuff.
719
00:43:18,939 -->
00:43:20,860
And that's, that's ultimately how you win.
720
00:43:20,860 -->
00:43:24,060
I know it's like a weird thing to say, but that is like,
721
00:43:24,060 -->
00:43:26,620
there are some people who are very competitive in education
722
00:43:26,620 -->
00:43:29,020
and their whole thing is beating down others.
723
00:43:29,020 -->
00:43:30,540
And that's where you lose.
724
00:43:30,540 -->
00:43:31,820
That's what I really believe.
725
00:43:31,820 -->
00:43:35,500
It is really how you lift other people up to have their impact.
726
00:43:35,500 -->
00:43:37,820
So I don't know if that, that answers your question or,
727
00:43:38,620 -->
00:43:41,179
but being, you know, being honest, that is one of my,
728
00:43:41,179 -->
00:43:43,100
one of my weaknesses and one of my strengths.
729
00:43:43,100 -->
00:43:45,820
So taking your weakness to make it your strength
730
00:43:45,820 -->
00:43:48,219
in education, I think is something that matters.
731
00:43:49,179 -->
00:43:53,340
Yeah. I always ask myself this question, you know, when I'm having,
732
00:43:54,459 -->
00:43:56,459
I could have some really awesome days
733
00:43:56,459 -->
00:43:58,540
and then some really challenging days
734
00:43:58,540 -->
00:44:00,540
and a mix of everything in between.
735
00:44:00,540 -->
00:44:04,939
Right. And I feel everything pretty deeply,
736
00:44:06,060 -->
00:44:09,020
but I have to know when to use heart, when to use mind.
737
00:44:09,739 -->
00:44:12,379
And it's always the same question, Lauren,
738
00:44:12,379 -->
00:44:14,379
what type of leader do you want to be?
739
00:44:14,379 -->
00:44:17,580
And the answer is the type of leader I always needed.
740
00:44:18,379 -->
00:44:21,020
And it goes back to how do you want to be remembered?
741
00:44:21,020 -->
00:44:23,739
What legacy do you want to leave behind?
742
00:44:23,739 -->
00:44:26,540
Not only as an educator, but as a human being, right?
743
00:44:26,540 -->
00:44:31,419
So if you can lead people better after reading your content
744
00:44:31,419 -->
00:44:34,540
and your work and your book, which it always has, George,
745
00:44:35,739 -->
00:44:40,860
I just know, I am so confident that this book is going to inspire
746
00:44:40,860 -->
00:44:44,219
not only the educators of today and the future educators
747
00:44:44,219 -->
00:44:46,459
and the future leaders and current leaders,
748
00:44:46,459 -->
00:44:49,580
but for many generations to come.
749
00:44:49,580 -->
00:44:52,459
And that's what great books do.
750
00:44:52,459 -->
00:44:57,899
They live inside you so that you can build that legacy.
751
00:44:57,899 -->
00:45:01,179
And that's exactly what you've done with Forward Together.
752
00:45:02,139 -->
00:45:03,260
Uh, you're the best.
753
00:45:03,260 -->
00:45:05,419
Thanks for taking the time out of this.
754
00:45:05,419 -->
00:45:09,260
Like it really, and your feedback on it did mean a lot
755
00:45:09,260 -->
00:45:12,620
because I know a lot of people,
756
00:45:12,620 -->
00:45:14,139
and you're not excluded from this,
757
00:45:14,939 -->
00:45:17,899
feel overwhelmed with stuff that's going on in education right now.
758
00:45:17,899 -->
00:45:21,979
And that's part of the reason why I try to joke in there too.
759
00:45:23,100 -->
00:45:24,699
My biggest mentor ever, Kelly Wilkins,
760
00:45:24,699 -->
00:45:26,780
she'd always say, if you don't laugh, you cry.
761
00:45:26,780 -->
00:45:28,699
And so I'm trying to make people laugh a little bit more
762
00:45:28,699 -->
00:45:31,739
so they can stop crying a little bit less, right?
763
00:45:32,300 -->
00:45:33,820
And you help, and you help.
764
00:45:33,820 -->
00:45:34,939
And that's the hope, right?
765
00:45:34,939 -->
00:45:39,419
To try to, I try to poke fun of myself quite a bit just to,
766
00:45:39,419 -->
00:45:42,060
you know, ease the tension of some of the
767
00:45:42,060 -->
00:45:43,659
really serious conversations that we have.
768
00:45:43,739 -->
00:45:45,500
But, you know, it doesn't mean they're any less serious,
769
00:45:45,500 -->
00:45:47,500
but, you know, having a better attitude
770
00:45:47,500 -->
00:45:49,739
about how we approach things could help.
771
00:45:49,739 -->
00:45:50,699
And that helps me.
772
00:45:50,699 -->
00:45:52,060
So hopefully it helps others as well.
773
00:45:52,060 -->
00:45:54,379
But I'll let you finish off because you're the host.
774
00:45:54,379 -->
00:45:55,659
Like, what am I, I don't know what to do here.
775
00:45:55,659 -->
00:45:56,939
This is the awkward ending part.
776
00:45:57,820 -->
00:45:58,459
Okay.
777
00:45:58,459 -->
00:46:01,820
So this is the part where I'm going to say,
778
00:46:01,820 -->
00:46:06,860
thank you so much for joining the Innovators Mindset Podcast
779
00:46:06,860 -->
00:46:09,260
with Lauren Kaufman as the host.
780
00:46:10,060 -->
00:46:12,780
And my friend, George Karos, who is awesome.
781
00:46:12,780 -->
00:46:15,979
And I hope that every educational community
782
00:46:15,979 -->
00:46:18,060
gets this book into my, into their,
783
00:46:18,060 -->
00:46:19,580
not only my hands, your hands.
784
00:46:19,580 -->
00:46:21,899
Yeah, just say, just buy books and send it to Lauren
785
00:46:21,899 -->
00:46:22,699
over and over again.
786
00:46:22,699 -->
00:46:25,179
Yes, gets this book into their hands
787
00:46:25,179 -->
00:46:27,500
because I just know, I'm so confident
788
00:46:28,060 -->
00:46:31,580
that it will just initiate beautiful conversations
789
00:46:32,219 -->
00:46:35,979
and move the work and the priorities forward together.
790
00:46:36,620 -->
00:46:37,580
You're the best.
791
00:46:37,580 -->
00:46:38,060
There we go.
792
00:46:38,699 -->
00:46:39,100
Love it.
