How He Turned One EDM Machine Into a 20-Person Shop | 51

WEBVTT
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Hello everyone, and welcome to the Impact Comchinists Podcast.
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My name is Patrick, and you can find me on Instagram at DocTopRatina.
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Welcome to a tomato podcast at Spotify with Appreciative Fox already.
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I'm Bradley with Tomorrow Machine and I'll on YouTube.
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Be sure to give us a like and subscribe to the Practical Machines YouTube channel.
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On this episode, we're joined by Ron Goebbels, CEO and president of CampWire EDM Technologies in Cambridge, Ontario.
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He's our resident EDM expert here at Practical Machinists.
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And today, Ron is going to teach us the secrets of electrical discharge machining EDM.
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So yeah, Ron, uh, we've been looking forward to this for a good while now.
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Um glad we finally got the chance to get you on.
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Um thanks for having me.
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Of course.
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Yeah.
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How's business up there in in Ontario?
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It's up and down.
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Uh we're ourselves here, we're quite busy.
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Um but uh in general, it's it's slow year over year.
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Yeah, we see that I'm probably you guys are seeing the same thing.
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Um we made uh a conscious decision in 2019 to really diversify, which has really helped us to you know several other industries.
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So it's it's that's kept us going.
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What were some of the complications when you decided to diversify?
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Getting contacts, networking.
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I you guys know um knocking on doors and cold calling it doesn't work.
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Right.
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It's all about who you know and and making contacts, getting out there and networking and letting people know what you're doing and what you're changing.
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And and then the other part was we went from basically uh a tool and die support shop.
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Um, I'm a tool and die maker by trade, and um so we have a few tool die makers here in machinists, of course.
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Um, but adjusting to the requirements of different industries.
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So we went from tool and die to automation, and the the requirements are so different.
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Yeah, tolerances are so much tighter.
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Um tool and die, if everything's plus or minus a thou, you're fine, right?
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Um automation, we just finished building actually a die for automation cell that has uh uh cutting clearance of two ten thousandths of an inch.
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Oh man.
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Yeah.
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And so when you say automation, what type of automation is it?
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Um, so we are we'll build the parts for the automation cells.
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Our our customers are pretty big automation companies where they will get contracted to buy build an entire automation line.
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Um and so we do a lot of medical automation.
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So I mean, working with a lot of stainless uh aluminum and stuff, and we'll build the little little tiny gripper fingers.
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Yep, right.
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They'll be you know um a quarter inch wide by maybe an inch long and maybe half an inch high, and they'll have all these uh 440 stainless or 360.
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Um usually on those ones we'll get half a cloud tolerance.
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Oh wow, because I they get all sorts of processing done to them too, um whether it's passivation or heat treating, stress relieving, all that good stuff.
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Yeah, because I I started when I started a machine and I did I built tool and die for the first eight to ten years.
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That's what I got into first.
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Building trim dies mainly for cast parts, but we did some prog dies.
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But then I got into automation after the next shop I went to, but we did automated packaging equipment.
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And if we went from, like you said, in tool and die plus or minus a thou, but the automation I did, we were we were building component parts for the whole line, but they were, I mean, most of that shit was plus or minus 60.
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You could you could hand grind a radius on most of the stuff, it didn't matter.
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It was it was it was more function than anything, function and fit, right?
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So and I a lot of I got I got like five or six automation customers now.
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One of them is a pharmaceutical company, so they build automated packaging for pills and shit.
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But it's the same thing.
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Like I can look at it, and if they got an internal radius of a quarter inch and I want to make it a half inch, they don't give a shit.
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Right.
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As long as I fit and function.
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So different type of automation.
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Different type of automation.
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We've it it was quite a learning curve.
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Yeah.
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Um, but it actually came by right at the right time because um we started doing that, and then we started doing uh work on the um like the rotary transfer business industry, where you know your your production line that makes screws and not so much screws, but like your fittings at Home Depot.
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Um your brass fittings, they were cast, but they got a whole bunch of machining on them.
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So we make components that have anything to do with the work holding that um makes those parts.
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So right from the collets to custom carbide tool holders, all that kind of stuff.
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Um and so those two customers came on board just before COVID.
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And thank goodness they did because that kept us going.
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Like all our automotive customers shut down.
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And uh so it was a good learning learning curve of you know requirements, but not only um like the machining requirements, but the documentation requirements, and because that's a whole other animal to go with it.
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Right.
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Whenever you were talking about networking, what exactly did you do for networking?
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It seems like a ton of people with companies, that's like the big question mark is how to get more customers or how to get into the new industries.
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So, yeah, how'd you go about that?
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A lot of it was um we belong to the CTMA organization up here, Canadian Tuan Manufacturing Association.
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Um, and then I've been looking at joining nuclear is really kicking off here.
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Um getting involved in the Nuclear Association and and following people that you used to work with.
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I found that that's one of the big leads that I've been able to get utilize is people I've worked with never burn a bridge, right?
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Right and but connect staying connected with them.
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Um that was a big lead as well.
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So yeah, getting connected with the association and then going to the events and and uh leading people and and talking, and that's that was the two biggest leagues.
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Yeah.
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I can imagine keeping up with people that you worked with.
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Like I think of you know, a good purchaser at a company that you make a good relationship with, and then they leave and go somewhere else, and they're like, Oh yeah, I got a machine shop for that.
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I know.
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I know who can do it.
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And if you find a good purchaser anyway, I mean I would almost rather follow their follow them to the next company and make their parts for them if you have a converter.
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I mean, they can make the right jobs.
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I've followed uh I've followed tool companies that way.
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I I had a tool rep that worked at one one place, they got bought out, he it turned into a disaster, so he left, went somewhere else.
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We followed him, we went where he went.
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Absolutely because the people that you know replaced him were not what he was.
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So it's funny how that works.
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I loved having a good tooling rep.
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Or I mean, even I guess a tooling vendor is what I'm talking about.
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You know, somebody who works at a company that sells a bunch of different tooling.
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When you have somebody good and you can just throw a problem at them and they figure out the solution for you, it's like a force multiplier.
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I don't have to sit here and try to figure out different strategies or what tooling I can use.
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And you know, they know stuff that I don't even know exists.
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So when you find a good one and they can just solve your problems for you, it's a game changer.
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Yeah, the uh the boys on uh Machines Therapy Hotline were talking about how uh Chat GPT is gonna put that out of business.
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Yeah.
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So Ron, I'm curious.
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Uh we'll kind of take a step back here if you want to tell us about your history in the trade and uh what led you to uh Cam YADM.
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Long story.
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So I grew up in the country.
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My my dad said to me when I was in high school, I said, okay, summer's here, you gotta go get a job.
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And farming community, so I go around and get jobs at the farm farms and stuff like that.
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And then um friend of ours on the two and die shop, and so grade nine, my dad says, Okay, get out for the summer, you're going to work there.
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Wow.
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So I did.
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And I it was good.
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Um old German guy, he's unfortunately he's passed away now, but uh, I started squaring blocks, and then he get me to file chamfers on the blocks, and like old school man, like I get the file out and I'm going like this, and he showed me how to do it.
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You never stroke the file back, always forward, all this.
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And then he'd get the protractor out and measure my my chamfer.
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Oh, mercy.
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And if it wasn't 45 degrees, I'd have to do it again.
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And but it it taught me something, it taught me to pay attention to detail.
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And um, I learned how to square blocks and a shaper.
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I don't know if any of you guys have run one of those things.
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I haven't.
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It's uh it's probably in a in a a museum now, right?
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Um, but it that got me interested in the trade.
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And then uh I moved out west for a while out in BC, um, I know Alberta.
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Um, I was a cowboy for a while, actually, roping cattle and Alberta beef.
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Alberta beef, yep.
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I was I was actually living in BC at the time when I was a cowboy, and it was uh it was that was a fun ride.
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Um, but it's as they say, it's um it's a lifestyle, and it's not a way to make a solid living, you know.
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And I loved it, but my wife and I wanted she wanted to come back here to Ontario to go to school, so we came back and I got back into the trade and um finished as a tool and die maker, worked my way up um through the the floor, you know, building big projects and whatnot, then got into design um and then project management.
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And my uh business partner that started Camwire back in 1999, actually, he started with one one wire EDM.
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Um, so him and I were talking, we used to be neighbors, and you know, we get together for lunch once in a while, and he kept saying, I need somebody to help me.
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I don't want to do this myself anymore.
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Um and uh I was it's not that I was bored where I was at, it was I was looking for a different challenge, and so I said I'd um I'd entertain coming over if I could buy into the company.
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So um back and forth for a few months, and then I decided uh, and I had it made where I was working, they were really good to me.
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It was a good company, it's still going, it's a very strong company.
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Um but my wife said at the time, because I couldn't handle a back and forth, back and forth, and she said, Well, you always work like you own a company, so you might as well own it.
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And so gave him my notice, and uh Mike and I worked out a deal, and December 4th, 2011, is when I uh when I jumped ship, and uh scariest month of my life because the work dried right up to nothing.
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Oh I mean nothing.
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We were polishing the cement floor, getting it ready to reseal it.
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That's how slow we were.
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And Mike would come in every day and say, Don't worry, it'll come back, it'll come back, and I'm freaking out, right?
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And then uh from there, like we were 1500 square foot.
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We had two employees at the time.
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Uh from there, it just went crazy.
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Um, just hit it at the right time with my contacts that I made over the industry, and tool and dire was taken off, and auto production was taken off.
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Um so we went from 1500 square feet to two employees to then we were 3,000 square feet, we rented two separate units a block away.
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And then the was that ever a pain, pain in the ass.
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Where is the block?
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I don't know, it might be at the other shop, and um so then we yeah, we eventually bought our own building, so we're just under 10,000 square feet now with 20 people.
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Nice, nice, nice.
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And how many moons do you have?
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Yeah, uh six wire EDMs, uh, five CNC melts, uh, three, four, and five axes, and then all the manual equipment to go with it.
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And then um 2019, 2020, our um Bowler Utahome Steel was selling all their individual, they're closing all their satellite steel stores.
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So uh we bought one of their big sauce, hired their operator, uh, and then started stocking steel for our own purposes.
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Nice.
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So we have stock here that you could phone me now.
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I could have a piece on the CNC in an hour need be, depending on the size.
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Um but and that's yeah, that's how I got into machining, actually.
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Like it's just kind of it's been a wild ride.
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Yeah, that's super interesting.
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Like you started out with you know learning the old school way and then went to do something completely different, and then you came back to it.
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That that's interesting.
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Yeah.
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Um the how did you get to know uh Ian Sandesky?
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Yeah, that's an interesting story.
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Oh boy.
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Yeah.
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I love Ian, he's great.
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Ian and I I was doing uh work for this uh this customer in the rotary transfer business, and then there was parts of that business.
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We have one guy retiring, um, and we were rebuilding these these complicated heads that have uh slides and stuff in them.
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And again, like backlash tolerance is it has a piston, comes up from the bottom, and it drives two slides this way.
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Um, backlash tolerance was half a thal after it's all assembled.
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We have to do tests and stuff.
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So our um our one tool maker was retiring, and we didn't have anybody at the time to um replace him, and so that that part of the business we weren't gonna be able to do.
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So we let our customer know that, and then he had found Ian, and then um so Ian started doing them, and we got connected.
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Uh, we had built a test fixture so that after all these parts were assembled, um we had built a special fixture, indicators, all this kind of stuff, so you could check backlash and stuff like that.
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So I actually gave Ian my R fixture that we had uh and showed him how to use it um so that he could uh be able to test the heads and stuff um the way we had learned how to do it.
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And um from there it just grew where we back and forth, and we're actually getting together in a couple weeks, actually.
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Um he's about an hour and a half, his shop's an hour and a half from my shop, and we trade work back and forth, and yeah, it just grew from there.
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Yeah, that's awesome, man.
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Yeah, I mean he's he Ian has spider webbed out a lot of connections like that.
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I mean, he's the reason that we're here, he's the reason you're part of practical machinist.
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I mean, it's it's funny how that he's a great guy.
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He he is a great guy, and one thing he he was questioning me later on after we got to know each other is like, why would you give me this?
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You don't know me at the time.
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And he says, you know, you didn't know me, why would you give me this fixture and show me how to use it from work you were doing for your customer?
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Yeah, my customer was there too, and he's a mutual customer, and it's like, well, in the end, we're all trying to do the same thing.
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I can't do the work, he can do the work my customer gets looked after, right?
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So it's kind of uh I feel in this trade there's there's too many people trying to stab each other in the back, and if we can all start working collaboratively, it it works out for all of us.
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Yep.
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Yeah, I agree.
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I agree.
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I get that vibe from a lot of people that we have on the show, like they've seen a lot of like the older shops that you know you don't you don't give the time of day to another shop because they're your competitor, which means they're your enemy.
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It doesn't have to be that way.
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No.
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I think it only makes it harder.
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You know, and then if that's if that's the mentality that you have, people are gonna catch on to that and they're not gonna want to work with you anyway.
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Your customers, you know.
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You try to take on a job that you know maybe you can't necessarily handle, but you're you're not gonna pass it on to somebody else because you don't want somebody else getting to work.
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You take it on, you have a you either struggle bust your way through it and you do get it done, but now you just work way too hard to make a little bit of money, or you don't get it done in time, don't get it done to the right quality, and now you look worse for it.
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Whereas actually I just did that uh yesterday.
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Had somebody come to me and they were like, Hey, I need 10,000 of these pieces uh like Friday.
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I'm trying to sub it out to as many shops as I can just to get it done.
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I was like, Well, we're not a great fit.
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We could, I mean, we have a lathe, we could run it on, we could do it.
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But we'd be busting our ass to get it done, and it would suck, you know.
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So I know a guy, you know, an hour from here, he's got he rents out some shop space, has his own Swiss machine and a couple mills and a uh hostile one or two.
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I was like, oh, he'd be perfect for this.
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So I pass them along to him.
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And now this guy's taken care of, this guy's getting work.
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I know both these people, they're both gonna respect me more for it.
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Yeah, so even though I didn't get the work and didn't get the money out of it, you know, you never know what's gonna come in the future from that.
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And regardless, you're helping your own reputation.
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So yeah, exactly.
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Uh you've built confidence there and you've built another connection that that's trustworthy.
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And sometimes knowing when to say no is better than saying yes.
00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:20.480
Because the customer knows that they can trust you whenever you say something, you know.
00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:23.279
If I tell you no, that's not something we can handle.
00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:25.839
You know that I'm gonna tell you whenever I can't handle something.
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:39.440
And especially if you if you don't just say no, you're like, no, I can't do it, but either here's who can, or here's how we can get it to where I can do it.
00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:42.640
I mean, ultimately it's like the tooling vendor I was talking about.
00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:43.920
You know, he's my problem solver.
00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:45.680
I just send stuff to him, he figures it out for me.
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:47.680
Well, I mean, we're the same thing for a customer.
00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:51.039
They don't care what my capabilities are, they just want their problem solved.
00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:52.240
They want their parts.
00:19:52.400 --> 00:20:03.200
So if I can't do it, I'll try to solve their problem for him anyways and send to somebody who can, or maybe recommend like a design change or something to make it easier to make the parts, whatever, you know.
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:05.519
Just solve the problems.
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:06.960
It goes a long way.
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:07.359
Yeah.
00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:14.480
I I've even had customers where I've where I've done that, where I've said on, you know, we'd have to send this out.
00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:19.680
I recommend using these guys, and they say, Well, would you mind looking after it?
00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:20.240
Yep.
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:22.640
Well, they they fully know we've sent it out.
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:23.200
Yeah.
00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:27.279
And we come to an agreement, you know, we'll make a little bit of money on it.
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:29.519
We're not gonna go crazy on it.
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:37.279
Um, just enough to man enough for managing it, but that way they don't have to set up a new vendor, they don't have to go through that whole process.
00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:38.000
Oh, yeah.
00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:43.599
Some companies that's a huge deal for like this new vendor and meet them in the door.
00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:44.960
We do that for some people too.
00:20:45.039 --> 00:21:01.279
I mean, there's parts that we don't even touch, they just show up to us and then we ship it to the customer, but we sub the whole thing out, you know, like laser cutting and like laser cutting bent parts, or maybe some have it laser cut and tabbed and slotted, and we just weld it together real quick and send it to them.
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:06.559
But for them, it's easier than dealing with another vendor and setting them up and all that.
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:10.480
They know they can just send it to us, it gets done, and it shows up to them and they're happy.
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:11.279
Yeah.
00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.839
And they they've they trust you, they've that confidence is already built.
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:16.640
Yeah.
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:17.279
Yeah.
00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:17.920
Yeah.
00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:26.079
Even if you have another shop do the work, when it goes to them, it's gonna have your stamp of approval on it, presumably.
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:26.960
Yeah.
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:29.119
Nah, you just put in a box and ship it.
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:30.079
You don't check in.
00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:35.359
Put a put a few marble stickers on it, call it a day.
00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:36.480
There you go.
00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:38.880
Oh well.
00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:46.079
So obviously, Ron, the biggest thing that we're curious about is like the wire EDM business.
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:52.720
Um we're I have a little bit of experience with wire EDM and it was not good.
00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:55.359
Uh I don't know.
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:56.960
I don't think Cam has any.
00:21:57.200 --> 00:21:58.480
Brad might.
00:21:58.559 --> 00:21:58.960
I don't know.
00:21:59.039 --> 00:21:59.279
Do you?
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:01.279
Yeah.
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:04.720
Um so I guess we'll start.
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:06.319
There's actually a question here.
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:07.920
Please, please hold.
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:15.519
Um if you would want to just kind of walk through and explain what EDM is for folks that don't know.
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:16.079
Sure.
00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:17.039
Magic.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:17.839
Magic.
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:19.039
It is magic.
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:21.359
Wire EDM.
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:25.839
So we do there's there's two different kinds of wire EDM, wire EDM and sync EDM.
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:28.240
So if you're at Cam, we do wire EDM.
00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:31.279
Sync works off the same principle.
00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:40.640
So what what wire EDM is, you have a wire and it can go down as as low as fourth, I believe.
00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:44.880
There might be two thou wire, four thousand up to we use twelve thou wire.
00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:47.359
We use ten and twelve thousand diameter wire.
00:22:47.599 --> 00:23:01.039
And so the the wire goes between two heads, and then the the wire is stretched between the heads, it feeds on a roll, goes through the heads and out the back of the machine.
00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:04.559
And there's a current that's sent through the wire.
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:13.359
And then the wire arcs against the steel, or whatever you're cutting, as long as it's conductive, it will arc against uh the steel.
00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:15.119
I'll say steel at this point.
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:19.039
Um, and then that arc actually cuts the steel.
00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:28.160
So the wire never touches the steel, it's the arc, there's a gap between it, and it it's what burns away the steel.
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:37.279
And then you have water that's flushing it out constantly, distilled water, and then um that gets rid of all the chips, so to speak, right?
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.720
Um and then the wires used once.
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:48.079
Some of the new wire machines that are used for uh 3D printing, you can re-spol the wire and use it.
00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:53.599
But uh for what we do, we use the wire once and it goes to scrap after that.
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:58.240
But by controlling the arc, um you control the cut.
00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:03.920
So then you that's where you get into your roughing passes and then your skim passes and stuff like that.
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:07.440
So if you got a 10,000 wire, what is it cutting at?
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:10.079
Uh usually in around 12,000.
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:10.640
Okay.
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:15.680
So you you get about a thou per side overburn when you're going straight.
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:22.000
If you take a block and you just cut straight down the middle, you get about a uh roughly a thousand per side overburn.
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:22.799
Okay.
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:25.599
A lot of things for consideration.
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:27.680
It is, yes.
00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:28.240
Yeah.
00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:35.359
So you gotta be you gotta pay attention if um how you're cutting, if you're cutting on the right side of the line or not.
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:38.000
So you're you have your 2D profile.
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:46.319
Um if your wire directions the wrong way when you're programming it, you could be actually cutting 1200 the wrong way.
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:53.839
Is there is there one way or the other to cut that you want to be on the left side or the right side depending?
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:54.640
Yes.
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:55.440
Yep.
00:24:55.680 --> 00:25:07.599
So it depends on um where you want your brakes to be, where you want your your stops to be, how you want your slart to come off, um, and that that kind of stuff.
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:08.400
Yeah.
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:21.279
I'll say one of the so when when we bought a wire EDM uh at the first company I worked for, nobody in the whole company knew anything about wire EDM.
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:24.240
So that was a big challenge right off the gate.
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:29.200
Um and we we got some training with it, we learned it a little bit.
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:41.599
One of the hardest things for me, just going from straight machining to, you know, this magical nonsense of wire EDM was um holding things.
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:49.279
I mean, there's obviously a lot of fixtures and things you can buy, and they had bought some, I think, 3R stuff to try to use.
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:58.480
Um, but it was so hard to remember like you can't have anything below the table because you will hit your lower head.
00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:02.720
And I can't tell you how many times I hit the lower head.
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:07.759
Now you got to take everything off the table and put your realignment jig on and all that.
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:08.880
Oh man.
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:11.680
Um it was wild.
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:16.319
The head, the bottom head is fourth out below the table.
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:16.960
Okay.
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:25.839
So that's how much you're you got to indicate stuff because you got to make sure your block isn't tipped down, all that kind of stuff.
00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:31.759
For me, the biggest part was when I was first learning how to run the machines, I crashed the upper head.
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:42.240
And you know, screw clamps in the way, or I'm bringing it down because ideally, if you have a flat block, you have fourth out between the top and bottom heads.
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:44.480
That's your best cutting condition.
00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:46.720
You'll get the fastest speed out of it.
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:51.359
And I'd be looking and I'd be inching it down and inching it down and then crash.
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:56.880
And I'd forget there's a there's a nozzle that I can't see there.
00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:02.480
It's just a plastic nozzle, but I crash the head, and then it, you know, of course, it sets it off.
00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:05.279
Then you gotta realign your head and do all sorts of stuff there.
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:05.680
Yep.
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:08.559
So what exactly happens when you crash ADM?
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:11.119
It's like a lightning strike.
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:11.759
I'm excited.
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:12.400
Yeah.
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:20.559
Uh you'll get your you'll get your limit stop, kind of kind of like on a CNC, but it just starts beeping at you like crazy.
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:22.240
Uh the screen goes red.
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:31.680
And um, so you know, a crash like that, if you come down and hit it really hard, uh, you could do some pretty serious damage.
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:40.559
Um I think you do more damage in a CNC mill than you would in a wire, uh, but you for sure have to realign your head.
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:42.480
Um, and that's a bit of a process.
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:47.759
It's it's automatic and you you gotta take your workpiece off and then you realign everything.
00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:53.200
Um, sometimes you gotta shut the machine down and then fire back up because you can't get out of it.
00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:57.519
Um it's it's a bit of work, it's not it's not a two-minute fix.
00:27:57.759 --> 00:27:58.160
Gotcha.
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:05.039
Um, and then if you know you could if you hit it hard enough, you could actually do some, you know, you could break some parts as well.
00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:07.839
Yeah, they're very finicky, I've heard.
00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:17.680
Yeah, they can be I know I've heard people say even just companies that have moved to new buildings, like you have to move them properly or shit gets fucked up.
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:19.119
Yes, yeah.
00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:32.480
So you uh when we did our move from uh from our indoor building now, we actually hired uh Sodic and Mitsubishi to come in and prep the machines beforehand.
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:41.279
Yeah um and the machine movers put them in place, and then we hired them back to come back and reset them back out.
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:50.319
It's it's not not easy, and if you don't do it right, it's it is screwed up and you can it it's costly.
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:50.799
Yep.
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:59.920
A servo drive, we just um a servo drive can run us anywhere from ten to fifteen thousand dollars US, right?
00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:03.759
And in Canadian dollars, that's about ten million dollars.
00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:06.079
Right.
00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:06.720
Wow.
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:16.640
Um yeah, like and even some of the boards, um like a a board is the same price between 10 to 15,000 US, depending on which one goes.
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:21.920
So if you're not you don't do it right, it can get very costly very fast.
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:22.480
Yep.
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:35.440
I know some companies that that I worked for that had wire machines, they would watch auctions for used machines that something might have been wrong with them, but it was worse spending three to five grand on a machine that doesn't work to get the boards.
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:36.240
Yes.
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:41.279
So they'd have two or three wire machines sit in the corner ready for a part.
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:42.079
Yep.
00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:44.319
Especially if you have older machines.
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:44.880
Yep.
00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:52.720
Um that that's important because you it's you can't get boards um replaced anymore on the older machines.
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:56.799
There's a there's a wizardry to trying to fix them.
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:06.720
We've we've had some of our boards sent out to try and fix it, and the manufacturers have put something in there that they can't figure out that they're not able to get fixed.
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:08.160
Yeah, classic.
00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:12.640
Yeah, kind of, yeah, exactly.
00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:16.720
And so it's you know, we've tried it a few times and it didn't work.
00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:20.720
So now we're back to to buy an OEM board.
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:26.079
Yeah, uh thankfully they don't go very often.
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:28.480
So back to the crashes.
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:32.079
The first shop I worked at, they bought a brand new, I think it was a Sodic.
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:35.599
Um, they had it moved in, they came and set it up.
00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:38.640
The first the first run, it was a run overnight.
00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:40.960
They had it running probably 12 hour cycle time.
00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:46.079
They came in, the slug had dropped completely down and split the wires in half.
00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:47.359
Oh no.
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:51.599
Yeah, that's oh that's bad.
00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:56.000
Yeah, I'll tell you, that's that was the biggest difficulty we had.
00:30:56.160 --> 00:31:04.400
I mean, we kept that the wire dm for like a year and a half and ended up just selling it because one, we couldn't get work.
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:10.160
Um we bought the dumb thing on the promise of getting tool and die work.
00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:13.440
Um, but it never really came about.
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:20.480
Um, I mean, we bought that and we bought a uh 12 by 36 surface grinder to go with it.
00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:31.119
Um but yeah, it was always like people always talk about how yeah, you can set a wire up and and it'll run for you know three days straight if you fixture your parts and all that.
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:36.319
But I mean, I think we we went about three hours without breaking the wire.
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:46.400
Um it just uh I have to before I forget, Ron, I have to ask, how many times have you opened up the door and gotten a bath?
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:51.119
I've done it a couple times.
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:51.759
Yep.
00:31:52.640 --> 00:32:04.720
Some days there was a few days I wish I had my uh my swimsuit on the our a couple of our older machines um had that where you open up the door, and yeah, there's been more than once.
00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:12.960
Or uh the newer machines, of course, that you can't do that anymore because they've got enough technology in it, you can't open the door with the tank full of water.
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:20.240
But the other the other problem we we had, and we eventually put timers on on all our taps.
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:29.279
So when you fill up the tanks, um we just moved into the shop here, and the wires were the only thing.
00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:34.559
We we did a stage move where we moved one department at a time so we wouldn't have to completely shut down.
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:39.759
So we get the wires in the in the in the shop, they're all set up.
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:49.759
Um the sodic's coming in, we're filling them up with wire, water, and uh the one guy goes home and forgets to turn the tap off.
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:50.400
Yes.
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:55.039
Comes in in the morning and the whole shop's flooded.
00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:57.119
And he did that a few times.
00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:02.079
It was you know, it's just water, but still it's uh that's happened.
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:09.519
So we put timers on the on all the taps now, so even on the CNC, so that yeah, it it's set for a time and it can't overflow.
00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:12.160
And you gotta run distilled water in those, right?
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:13.759
We do, yes.
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:22.319
So the the there's stuff in the in the filters and in the socks um that distill the water for us.
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:24.559
There's a distilling unit on the machines.
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:25.039
Okay.
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:26.000
Oh wow.
00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:27.279
That's pretty nice.
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:28.480
It is, yeah.
00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:29.119
Yeah.
00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:31.200
So we don't have to buy distilled water.
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:36.160
We can just use regular, regular tap water and uh each unit has its own distillery.
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:40.400
Yeah, because I was gonna ask what the process would be for that, you know, for getting distilled water.
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:42.480
I feel like I'll never see it at the grocery store anymore.
00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:47.920
I mean, obviously, industrial, if you needed it, I'm sure somebody's got it, but Nards has it.
00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:49.920
We don't have an art.
00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:55.519
I mean, I I was looking for some at the grocery store the other day for something.
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:55.920
I don't know.
00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:59.279
My wife told me to get distilled water and there wasn't any anywhere.
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:00.160
Well, weird.
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:00.799
Yeah, there was like a lot of things.
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:05.440
I think places like Culligan and stuff will get you distilled or RO water.
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:06.559
Yeah, I don't know what cold.
00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:19.840
Sounds like cold guard, but yeah, so the wiring machines have its uh its own setup for uh distilling the water, and then it has the and I'd like the CNCs, they they all have chillers as well.
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:23.679
Okay, you have to you have to chill the water, the water gets quite warm.
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:25.039
I would imagine.
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:28.639
And so it has to be chilled as well.
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:38.400
Uh the the problem we're running into now is that the uh the wiring machine suppliers don't want to service the chillers anymore.
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:46.079
So it's it's um trying to find an e-track company that will actually service those chillers.
00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:49.119
An appliance repair guy.
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:49.920
Right.
00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:50.880
Almost.
00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:57.039
We've tried a few e-track guys and they weren't interested in it because it's it's not a straightforward chiller.
00:34:57.360 --> 00:34:58.639
It's not their bread and butter work.
00:34:58.960 --> 00:34:59.679
No, exactly.
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:02.079
Yeah, that's yeah, that's so interesting.
00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:18.320
We we know the three of us know a guy named Dave that makes uh end mills and things like that, and he all his CNC grinders have chillers, and I know he's been fighting for I don't know, a year or something to get uh one or two of his chiller units fixed.
00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:19.039
Interesting.
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:22.559
So that's funny because that's like uh that must be a huge problem.
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:28.880
Yeah, man, it sounds like something you should just build your own and not deal with that.
00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:31.440
Just throw some ice cubes in there, call it good.
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:32.400
That would work.
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:33.599
Beahoo.
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:36.880
Just get a chest freezer next to it and run it through some coils.
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:38.000
That would work.
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:39.679
Give it a need gummy.
00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:40.320
Yeah.
00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:46.320
But you mentioned uh earlier about fixturing and and how important that is.
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:51.760
And we still kind of use the we put a lot of stuff on vices and stuff.
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:59.599
They have a lot of neat fixtures now where um you know you can just do self-leveling with just adjusting screws and it moves it around.
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:06.719
But fixturing is a big thing in EDM that can really help you make things go faster.
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:22.159
Well, a lot of times what we'll do, depending on the type of steel, if it's just a like a straightforward punch block, we'll add a half an inch or three-quarters of an inch to the corner of the block so we can clamp it right to the table.
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:22.960
Yeah.
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:24.719
Makes sense.
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:29.920
Depending on the material type, we get into some pretty exotic materials, it was too expensive.
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:31.199
We course won't do that.
00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:34.639
But um, yeah, fixturing is is important.
00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:45.199
Uh it's not just as easy as throwing it in the vise sometimes and and uh you know start hit goal and the way you go.
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:48.159
Yeah.
00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:50.320
Yeah, it's it's fascinating.
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:53.119
Like we we used it more than anything.
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:58.079
This is sad, but we used our wire for um cutting keyways and stuff quite a bit.
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:04.159
Uh I actually remember that I don't know, oddest job I ever did on it.
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:12.159
We had a a ring of Inconel 718, and we had to burn a keyway in that.
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:18.639
And we actually ended up burning the bore and the keyway, because obviously that stuff is such so terrible to cut.
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:19.599
Yeah.
00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:23.119
But man, that was that took a hot minute.
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:24.960
Yeah.
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:29.119
Uh how different is it cutting speeds with different materials?
00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:34.880
Um aluminum, aluminum cuts twice as fast as steel.
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:43.760
Um, brass and bronze is almost the same as aluminum, and then the the steels are pretty consistent.
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:52.559
Uh, what we find is uh hot weld material is one of the worst steels to cut um because of the impurities in it.
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:53.119
Okay.
00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:58.159
That's one thing wire does not like is impurities or gaps.
00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:05.840
So if you have a welded part, quite often we'll get parts in here for welding that have been welded and they need to be rewire cut.
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:13.440
Um what we tell the shops is if they've welded it themselves, we won't wire cut it because it just turns into a nightmare.
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:26.079
If there's any impurities in the steel or any air gaps or air bubbles, um whether it's in a casting or in hot roll or in welding, it the wire will break immediately as soon as it hits it.
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:26.880
Okay.
00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:27.599
Yeah.
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:29.360
That's gonna be my next question.
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:38.800
And that's the neat, but also the difficult thing with wires, and from what from what I know is they kind of control themselves.
00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:44.320
They slow speed up and slow down to match what it feels the material is like.
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:45.360
Is it right, Ron?
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:47.119
To a point, yes.
00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:50.159
Yeah, especially so especially the newer machines.
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:57.679
The older machines, not so much, but the newer machines are are more advanced and they will speed up and slow down to a point.
00:38:58.000 --> 00:38:59.840
Um, you still have to control.
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:10.639
Um, you can still go in and adjust, like um when you're looking at a spark in a wiring machine, it it looks like it's a constant spark, but it actually is an on and off switch.
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:15.519
It's on and off, on and off, on off, but like thousands of times per minute.
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:21.440
And by controlling that on off cycle, and of course your feed and all that kind of stuff.
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:44.239
Um by fine-tuning that, then you can you can pick up quite a bit of speed, or sometimes the the machine will try to force it and it just keeps breaking, and then you've got to dial it back because there's something it can't anticipate in the steel, or if you've got shape, for instance, we're gonna be working some parts next week.
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:57.920
Um they're round blanks and it has a slot in it, but we have some 3D shape in the top that um when it gets to the end of the slot, the the water is gonna circle like this.
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:04.400
And the machine it will want to just keep plowing at the normal speed all the way through.
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:10.320
It's not gonna pick up that the water is actually circulating in there and it's gonna cause the wire to break.
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:19.920
So we'll manually go in, treat the program so it'll slow down as it's going into that area and then speed back up when it comes out of the wow.
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:27.760
And you know, the precision that they can hold is also really honestly amazing.
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:36.400
Um I worked for a guy that was uh really old school machinist, he's been doing it for I think 60 years this year.
00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:39.920
Um, and he was a jig grinder guy for a long time.
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:50.320
And he kind of he really didn't like the wire ADM because that was probably the only machine he'd ever seen that could give a jig grinder a run for its money.
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:56.559
Uh and of course it's digital, so naturally he didn't like that either.
00:40:57.440 --> 00:40:58.960
But no, they're they're amazing.
00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:02.400
The finish you can get, the tolerances you can hold.
00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:08.320
Um I am curious, Ron, why is there a reason you guys don't have a sinker?
00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:14.880
We used to have a sinker uh way back, and it just wasn't getting used enough.
00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:20.320
And so looking at floor space, um, I ended up selling it.
00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:22.719
Nobody liked to use it because of the oil.
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:27.199
You get the oil in your hands and stinks.
00:41:27.760 --> 00:41:28.000
Yeah.
00:41:28.159 --> 00:41:33.920
Um and it was older technology, um, so that like the newer machines are quite different.
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:38.800
Um, so we just we sold it and put a bigger wire machine in instead.
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:46.800
And in our area, there wasn't a big demand for sync EDM, so um, we just follow kind of follow what the market was doing.
00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:59.679
Sinkers work uh very much off the same principles as wire EDM, just they're using electrodes, whether it's um you know, they've got graphite electrodes and all sorts of other kind of electrodes, but the principle's the same.
00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:04.400
They're using current to uh to burn away the metals.
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:10.000
I guess you have an extra step too with a sinker having to machine your electrodes to correct speed, right?
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:11.199
Yes, yep.
00:42:11.360 --> 00:42:16.320
Then you have uh, you know, you have a roughing electrode depending on you know what you're doing.
00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:20.960
You might have several roughing electrodes and then a finishing electrode after that.
00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:27.519
I have oh I do I do wish I had one for just fixing tapped holes.
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:29.280
Sometimes it's easier.
00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:42.079
We we do uh thread mill hard steel with with holes, or you know, putting in uh you know hard tapping, but um once in a while it'd be just nicer to have a sinker.
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:43.119
Yeah.
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:48.639
Yeah, because sinkers can kind of replicate whatever whatever shape you can put on the electrode.
00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:53.440
I've heard of people actually burning in threads and things like that, which is crazy.
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:54.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:55.119 --> 00:42:58.079
I guess it would be almost like a peck tapping cycle.
00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:01.280
Actually, it goes in.
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:08.079
Um, you have your like just say this is an electrode, it'll have actually have the threads on it.
00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:11.280
Yeah, well, you go down full depth and you go like this.
00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:18.400
You start your thread milling, but I guess with electrode thread burning, yeah.
00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:23.280
Wow process.
00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:24.000
Yeah.
00:43:24.320 --> 00:43:27.760
But yeah, the the wires both can get very accurate.
00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:38.719
Like I was saying earlier, that you know, we both this diet have had two ten thousandths of an inch cutting clearance, and we we were able to verify that that's what we ended up with at the end.
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:42.320
Um, a lot of skim cuts, a lot of measuring, right?
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:52.159
A lot of uh, you know, you do a whole bunch of test cuts beforehand to make sure you get your offsets right because that's that's wires all about, oh, just like C and C, right?
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:53.440
It's all about offsets, right?
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:58.960
You do your roughing cut and then then you move in, and then you move in and you change it about a tenth or two again.
00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:03.920
And Um making sure you're c we were constantly cutting on the same machine.
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:16.159
Every machine, you know, is slightly different, so your offset might be slightly different on another machine than how accurate are those machines?
00:44:17.599 --> 00:44:19.760
Some of the new ones are insane.
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:22.400
Uh they're down in microns.
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:27.760
Um yeah, it's some of the newer ones are are are insane.
00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:30.800
We're I was looking at them at the show last year.
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:33.760
We had a show up here in Canada similar to IMTS.
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:37.440
Um it it's crazy uh how accurate they are now.
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:45.679
Ours um ours are good to within usually three to four tenths with them with enough skin cuts.
00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:54.559
And then paying attention, especially to this complicated job we're doing this dive, and it's uh obviously better because we're paying a lot more attention to it.
00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:56.800
A lot of variabilities though, too, right?
00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:05.039
You have your um our wires aren't you know, our whole shop is climate controlled, so that helps.
00:45:05.199 --> 00:45:12.079
Um, but if you're you know there's there's climate control, there's um is your water in your tank cool enough?
00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:20.079
Um, there's all sorts of factors that now when you're starting to cut that that fine, there's so many factors that come into it.
00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:23.760
It's more of a science than anything else.
00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:29.760
How do you go about so when you're trying to keep up on something with a really tight tolerance, how do you go about measuring that in the machine?
00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:32.400
Because I'm assuming you don't want to take it out and put it back in.
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:34.239
A lot of times we have to.
00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:34.880
Really?
00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:35.840
Yeah.
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:36.960
Oh, yeah.
00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:44.480
Now what we what we try to do on the machine on the machine side, because we have older machines, um, we don't have a probe or anything on it.
00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:52.239
Then now we're we'll try to put in a in an extra feature somewhere that we can measure with a micrometer or something like that.
00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:52.800
Okay.
00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:54.800
You can measure with the wire, can't you?
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:57.119
Can you can you touch the walls and yep?
00:45:57.280 --> 00:45:58.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:45:58.719 --> 00:46:02.960
That'll get you probably within a half thou.
00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:03.679
Yep.
00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:05.440
Maybe a little bit better than that.
00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:13.760
Well, quite often what you'll do though, if you have a if you have a tall block, um, you'll take a we'll take a dowel or something and hold it to the side.
00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:18.320
So you're only you're only touching off on one point, you're not touching off on the whole face.
00:46:18.559 --> 00:46:18.880
Yep.
00:46:19.039 --> 00:46:24.159
That that gets you a more accurate reading than uh touching off on the whole face.
00:46:24.639 --> 00:46:37.760
Yeah, I know I worked at a shop that they had wire, and we would get parts that would have a slot or even a dowel or a dowel hole or something that was plus or minus five tenths, anything tighter than that, I'd always just send it over there and let them do it.
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:38.079
Yeah.
00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:39.440
Because they could always hold it.
00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:44.239
I mean, I could I could have done it, but it was like, if you guys are willing to do it, then you fucking do it.
00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:45.760
If you fuck it up, it's on you.
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:46.320
Yeah.
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:46.719
Yeah.
00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:51.119
And I we'd always, you know, I'd always go ask them, you know, because I'd give them a start hole or whatever.
00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:53.679
I might rough it out so they can just do a skim pass.
00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:54.400
Yeah.
00:46:54.719 --> 00:47:07.360
So one nice thing here about having so many wire machines is that uh, you know, a lot of times we'll take a look at the um the capacity of the wiring machines versus our CNC mills.
00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:17.599
And um, and I addressed this in one of my uh one of my um shows the other a few weeks ago, where I'll put it on the wire machine and cut it.
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:22.320
Yeah, like I get a call from the customer, like, did I get charged for this?
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:24.800
Because it was not milled, it was wire cut.
00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:27.280
So no, it's just the machine was empty, right?
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:35.360
And so we we take the approach of wiring machines way different than most shops because we'll we'll use it as a saw sometimes.
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:44.639
If I can get a long bar and put it up and I don't have to fly cut it, I don't have to grind it, it's within a thousand length, good enough.
00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:45.199
Yep.
00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:51.440
And if you can plan it all right where you set that up and leave for the day and just let it run, like it's it's I mean, you're printing money.
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:54.239
It's just cost wire water, I guess.
00:47:54.800 --> 00:47:55.679
Yeah, that's right.
00:47:55.840 --> 00:47:56.800
Yeah, yeah.
00:47:57.199 --> 00:48:00.079
So how many go ahead?
00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:01.920
How expensive is wire?
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:03.920
Yeah, that's a good question.
00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:07.119
We've it's gone up, just it's gone up.
00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:11.119
Uh it's gone up uh 100% in the last three years.
00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:11.679
Yeah.
00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:12.880
And what hasn't?
00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:14.559
Well, what hasn't, yeah.
00:48:14.719 --> 00:48:19.039
So we're we're roughly about$200 a spool Canadian right now.
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:19.519
Yeah.
00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:25.920
Um so you can go bigger jobs, you know, you can burn through a lot of spools of wire.
00:48:26.159 --> 00:48:30.159
Um, it's still, it is what it is, it's the cost of the job, right?
00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:30.639
Right.
00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:37.679
Um but just like you guys, and like we see that we're seeing our carbide prices go through the roof as well, right?
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:39.280
I'm sure you guys are too.
00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:40.320
Everybody is.
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:41.039
Oh, yeah.
00:48:41.199 --> 00:48:41.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:48:42.159 --> 00:48:47.599
I keep joking everybody's gonna have to get used to the old days and start using good old high-speed steel.
00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:48.559
Yeah.
00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:53.440
Have you ever ran wired machines with the Molly wire?
00:48:55.199 --> 00:48:57.039
No, that we haven't done it.
00:48:57.199 --> 00:48:58.320
Oh god, yeah.
00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:00.400
I know is it Molly wire?
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:01.039
I think it is.
00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:01.440
Yeah.
00:49:01.599 --> 00:49:06.480
But I know they re-spool it, but it's not as tight of tolerance you can get.
00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:09.280
No, no, but it's supposed to be faster, right?
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:11.039
It's faster.
00:49:11.199 --> 00:49:12.239
It's supposed to be faster.
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:13.280
I've never used it myself.
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:20.880
Like I said, um, and uh a lot of people I'm hearing use that in the uh 3D world, 3D printing world.
00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:21.199
Okay.
00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:31.599
We've we've we tried cutting 3D printed stuff, and there was um too many gaps and impurities and stuff like that to make it work.
00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:32.880
It was harder to do.
00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:39.920
I'm I'm sure some of the newer 3D printed stuff might work, but when we were trying it a few years ago, it was it was difficult.
00:49:40.159 --> 00:49:48.000
We do use a high-speed wire a lot, uh, which has a coating on it that burns a little bit, but usually about 20% faster.
00:49:48.480 --> 00:50:01.360
Um but yeah, there's uh we keep our machines pretty clean anyway, but you gotta, I've heard from other people that use it, you gotta do a lot more maintenance if you're not maintenance adverse.
00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:02.079
Yeah.
00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:06.320
One thing we find with with wires is uh two things.
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:11.039
They need a lot of maintenance, constant cleaning, and they don't like to sit.
00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:12.159
Okay.
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:14.559
They don't that's probably good information.
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:21.920
One person asked, uh windmill motorsports asked how realistic is it to have a ED to have EDM equipment in a home shop.
00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:36.639
Yeah, if if you don't have it running, I wouldn't say constantly, but at least firing it up once a week or every two weeks, then you you'll have problems down the road.
00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:41.760
It just won't fire up or issues when when it does want to start.
00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:48.800
We had uh uh a guy that bought our oldest machine, the first machine we ever actually ever bought.
00:50:49.039 --> 00:51:05.920
Um he's uh a vendor of ours who does a lot of we subcontract a lot of work, he was interested in it, made him a really good deal, trained him how to use it, and then it sat for four months, and then he went to fire it up and it wouldn't go.
00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:10.719
He had to reload all the hardware or all the software again on floppy disks.
00:51:11.199 --> 00:51:12.320
That's all the cheap.
00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:14.400
Yeah, all right.
00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:23.920
Unless you're gonna use it often, it's it's not really worth it because you're gonna have problems with it down the road.
00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:24.480
Yeah.
00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:26.079
I mean, I I see EDM.
00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:29.760
I mean, nobody at my shop knows how to use EDM equipment.
00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:35.519
Technically, yeah, we could get an EDM machine to figure it out, but I see it as one of those things where we don't use it often enough.
00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:40.000
We'll just bite the bullet and take the extra cost of subbing it out to an EDM shop.
00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:40.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:45.199
I mean just the headache you save with that and knowing it's gonna be done, it's gonna be done right.
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:45.599
Right.
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:46.320
That's easy.
00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:49.360
You just ship it to them and it shows up complete, even though it costs more.
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:50.159
Yep.
00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:51.519
Still worth it.
00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:55.440
One of the other things that how that happens is the seals dry out as well.
00:51:55.679 --> 00:52:00.480
There's uh a seal at the back of the table uh that's uh you know, we gotta change it.
00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:02.480
I can't remember what the interval is now.
00:52:02.719 --> 00:52:06.880
Um, it gets rebuilt quite often because otherwise you start leaking water.
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:12.639
But if that seal goes hard because it's not sitting, it needs water to keep it flexible.
00:52:12.880 --> 00:52:18.159
If it goes dry and it's it's it's hard from not sitting, then you're gonna start leaking.
00:52:18.880 --> 00:52:22.400
And they're not cheap to replace, and you lose your machine for a day.
00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:25.760
Sounds like a lot more maintenance than regular CNC mill.
00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:27.519
It is, yeah.
00:52:27.679 --> 00:52:33.599
The bit the biggest thing we do, um, you know, you gotta take the heads apart and clean them.
00:52:33.840 --> 00:52:35.039
Keep the tank clean.
00:52:35.119 --> 00:52:37.119
Don't let the tank sit dry.
00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:45.760
That's the worst thing you can do is finish your cut, take your piece off, then go home for the night and not wash the tank down.
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:50.639
Because now you come in in the morning and it's it's like powder.
00:52:50.800 --> 00:52:55.840
Yeah, it's all the chips except in you know, you can't cut yourself on these chips.
00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:57.840
It's powder, literally powder.
00:52:58.159 --> 00:52:59.199
Does it harden?
00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:00.800
It it will go hard.
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:02.719
It can if you leave it long enough.
00:53:02.800 --> 00:53:03.440
Yeah.
00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:12.000
Um, we bought a used machine at an auction uh a few years ago, and uh yeah, we had to get a hammer and chisel to get some of it out.
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:13.440
Oh gosh.
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:14.719
It was awful.
00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:25.599
We ended up we couldn't figure out why we couldn't get proper flushing, and we ended up having to replace all the water lines because it had built up in the water in the water lines and hardened inside the lines.
00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:27.760
So too much cholesterol.
00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:29.599
Yeah, exactly.
00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:30.800
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:31.360 --> 00:53:36.639
Yeah, maintenance is key to keeping the machines running optimal.
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:37.599
Yeah.
00:53:38.559 --> 00:53:44.480
Do you have a recommendation for an EDM machine for a beginner?
00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:47.760
I can only speak to the the experiences I have.
00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:50.320
I've only had experience on two machines.
00:53:50.639 --> 00:53:55.920
Um the the easiest machine I learned on was a SODI.
00:53:56.079 --> 00:53:59.039
It it's the control is very easy to use.
00:53:59.440 --> 00:54:04.400
Um and it the training was good, support was good.
00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:07.679
Um, so that that's I can only speak from my experience.
00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:08.960
I've heard the same.
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:16.480
I mean, a lot of people have have said uh that I've met like SODIC EDMs are easy to use, they work well.
00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:17.760
And it made sense.
00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:19.360
That's the thing I like the most.
00:54:19.599 --> 00:54:24.400
What you needed to do in the controls actually made sense to what you needed to do workwise.
00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:25.679
That's always nice.
00:54:25.760 --> 00:54:26.079
Oh, yeah.
00:54:26.320 --> 00:54:30.239
I think around here the mitzs are pretty popular.
00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:33.920
There's a lot of shops that still have the old SX machines.
00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:34.719
Yep.
00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:35.199
Yep.
00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:38.880
We have a FX, one FX, that's our biggest machine.
00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:46.559
Um, and it it cuts, it just keeps cutting the um, yeah, it's been here a while.
00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:49.599
So you gotta hand you gotta hand feed the wire.
00:54:50.239 --> 00:54:51.920
Uh on the bigger stuff, yes.
00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:52.400
Yeah.
00:54:52.639 --> 00:54:56.960
On on it, the automatic feed does work, but it's spotty.
00:54:57.280 --> 00:55:01.280
I know most of the shops I've been at that have the old, I think, I think they're the SXs.
00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:07.119
Most of them, the the wire feed doesn't work anymore, so they're always hand feeding that thing trying to line it up.
00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:07.679
Yep.
00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:11.119
There's a lot of cursing and swerving that happens.
00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:16.400
I think with wired machines, I think it's kind of the same with buying a CNC.
00:55:16.480 --> 00:55:20.320
You gotta you gotta buy something where you got maintenance in your area.
00:55:20.639 --> 00:55:20.960
Yeah.
00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:29.039
Because I know the the last shop I work at, they had some adgies, and we don't, I don't think we have any support in Minnesota.
00:55:29.119 --> 00:55:32.320
So that if they had issues, they were flying somebody in from Chicago.
00:55:32.639 --> 00:55:33.760
That's gets expensive.
00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:43.360
And you were you were down for a week no matter what, just getting somebody in here, and then if they got to fly back and wait for part, then they gotta fly back out, and then you're paying for them to stay here.
00:55:43.760 --> 00:55:44.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:48.639
That's when I'm buying equipment now, that's my biggest question.
00:55:48.800 --> 00:55:55.119
Is we're looking, we're hopefully this fall by uh five acts of CNC null.
00:55:55.440 --> 00:56:00.320
Um, another one, and that's my first question I've been asking people is what's your support like?
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:05.280
Yeah, to me that that's that's right up there with how good the machine is.
00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:23.360
If I can't get support or parts, um I I'm struggling, I had one machine, I won't name the what name what kind it is, but it was down for four months for a CNC machine for um for a mistake.
00:56:23.920 --> 00:56:38.239
Uh they won't admit it, but they changed the lubrication, and they didn't tell us that um the old that you needed to purge out the old lubrication before the new stuff went in.
00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:40.559
And uh you can say what brand it was.
00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:41.519
I think we all know.
00:56:41.679 --> 00:56:42.880
I think we all know.
00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:43.840
Yeah.
00:56:45.679 --> 00:56:50.639
Oh it was down for four months, like I had to rebuild the all three axes.
00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:51.760
Really?
00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:53.360
Holy crap.
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:55.280
It wrecked it all.
00:56:55.679 --> 00:57:00.559
Wow, and I had they fly in parts and the parts were wrong, and they wait.
00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:06.239
And now I gotta I gotta say the the service guys were great, we're fantastic.
00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:09.599
They were stuck between a rock and a hard place.
00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:14.079
Machine's up and running now, spitting out parts, which is and it's really accurate.
00:57:14.800 --> 00:57:18.960
But service for me is a is a number one question.
00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:19.679
Yeah.
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:23.440
Whether it's a wire machine or a or a mill or anything, right?
00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:24.880
Yeah.
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:31.039
I mean, they'd be like buying you know, a Honda Civic or a Suzuki Samurai.
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:36.559
Nobody has gotta work on one or has parts for one, but the other one is taken care of.
00:57:36.639 --> 00:57:39.760
You know, if you get it, you're gonna be able to get it fixed and back on the road no matter what.
00:57:40.079 --> 00:57:40.719
Exactly.
00:57:40.880 --> 00:57:41.440
Yep.
00:57:41.760 --> 00:57:44.719
Obviously, you know, you have a tool in dye background.
00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:46.559
Do you do your own heat treating?
00:57:47.599 --> 00:57:47.920
No.
00:57:48.639 --> 00:57:50.800
Um great question.
00:57:50.960 --> 00:57:52.800
We looked into doing that.
00:57:53.199 --> 00:58:00.400
Um we were running into heat treat issues a few years ago, and we were looking into that.
00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:06.480
Um I kind of make it equate it to like baking a cake.
00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:18.960
You know, you put you put your flour in and your salt and your oil and all that kind of stuff, and you put it in the oven and then you pull it out at the right time, and magic happens.
00:58:19.199 --> 00:58:34.400
And again, and heat treat can be the same way if you if you don't do your pre-soak right, if you don't do your drawback properly, if you don't draw back enough, you know, you cool it down properly, all that kind of stuff, you can wreck somebody's part.
00:58:34.800 --> 00:58:37.599
Or wreck our own parts, of course, too, right?
00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:41.920
Um, it's kind of the same thing as the lathe.
00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:43.599
That's not our specialty.
00:58:43.840 --> 00:58:45.760
Um, we don't know how to do it.
00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:49.920
It's it is a bit of a science, so we we just outsource it all.
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:52.320
Interesting.
00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:53.519
Interesting.
00:58:54.800 --> 00:58:55.280
Well, right.
00:58:56.639 --> 00:59:00.800
Do you guys do any your own heat treat, or did you send it all?
00:59:01.280 --> 00:59:05.360
We used to until our oven broke and then we just kind of first all of it and never looked back.
00:59:05.679 --> 00:59:06.079
Yeah.
00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:10.239
I I do all the heat treating at at our place.
00:59:10.400 --> 00:59:15.280
Um until it gets too big because we don't have a real big oven.
00:59:15.440 --> 00:59:20.559
But both both of the shops I worked at did as much in-house heat treating as possible.
00:59:20.880 --> 00:59:21.679
Interesting.
00:59:21.920 --> 00:59:28.480
Um mainly, man, there's just not a lot of places around, kind of like wire, honestly.
00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:30.960
There's not a lot of places to go to.
00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:37.440
Uh matter of fact, the one time that we outsourced a heat treating job where I'm at now, it was a disaster.
00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:46.000
Uh they sent back a uh like a 16-inch by 18-inch by like two inch die that had a huge crack right down the middle.
00:59:46.239 --> 00:59:46.719
Oh no.
00:59:46.880 --> 00:59:49.119
Um, it was it was nasty.
00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:57.840
So uh obviously nowadays with shipping being what it is, I mean it's easier to send stuff out.
00:59:58.079 --> 01:00:00.719
It doesn't have to be within driving range necessarily.
01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:01.199
Right.
01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:08.880
But uh just like with wire, if we want to send something out for wire, it's probably two to three hours away at minimum.
01:00:09.760 --> 01:00:16.159
Um so yeah, it's of course Brad just does aluminum, so of course he doesn't do any heat treating.
01:00:17.119 --> 01:00:24.320
The the first tool and dye shop I worked at when I got into this industry, we the guy that owned the shop is a control freak.
01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:30.079
And when I first started there, we would send out dice, we would order die sets and we would send out our heat tree.
01:00:30.159 --> 01:00:34.719
We got like three or four heat tree companies, they'll they'll come and pick it up every day and deliver it.
01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:37.920
They'll be at your shop every day, and that's what it was.
01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:41.440
But he was such a control freak, he started to want to do everything in a house.
01:00:41.599 --> 01:00:44.880
So we would start ordering eight by eight sheets of steel.
01:00:45.039 --> 01:00:51.039
We'd we'd flame cut them to do our own di sets, we'd grind them, paint them, put the pins in.
01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:53.280
Oh, and then it and then it went to heat treat too.
01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:56.239
He bought a heat treat oven, so then we start doing all that in-house too.
01:00:56.480 --> 01:00:59.440
He wanted to do everything in-house, didn't want to send anything out.
01:00:59.519 --> 01:00:59.599
Wow.
01:00:59.760 --> 01:01:06.239
And I think it was probably because he had, I mean, I had I was 18 years old at the time, I mean, paying me 20 bucks an hour.
01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:11.519
Like I can go outside and flame cut these fucking things all day, and it's save him a shit ton of money.
01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:12.320
Right, right.
01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:24.239
Yeah, and but it was a pain in the ass December in Minnesota, negative 20 degrees out there with a fucking we bought a track system where the flame the torch would cut across, so just magnet it right to the plate, cut it out.
01:01:24.400 --> 01:01:26.960
I mean, but he I'm out there freezing my ass off.
01:01:27.199 --> 01:01:28.159
Oh, yeah.
01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:29.360
Oh wow.
01:01:29.679 --> 01:01:32.639
The nice thing was the heat treat oven ended up being right outside the door.
01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:38.079
I had to go outside, so I'd I'd start it, I'd peek out the door and stand next to the heat treat oven while it's hot as shit.
01:01:38.320 --> 01:01:39.360
It warmed up.
01:01:40.559 --> 01:01:41.199
Nice.
01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:43.440
Yeah, there's quite a few heat treaters here.
01:01:43.599 --> 01:01:46.800
Like there's the one, there's one picking up here in half an hour.
01:01:47.039 --> 01:01:52.800
They pick up, drop off, and there's another look local one that's 20 minutes away.
01:01:52.960 --> 01:01:55.119
So they're it's really easy.
01:01:55.280 --> 01:01:55.679
Yeah.
01:01:55.840 --> 01:01:59.920
Where is your shop located in a decent sized city?
01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:09.440
Yeah, we're so we're in Cambridge, Ontario, and so it's kind of Cambridge, Kitchener, Waterloo, we're all three cities that are huge, right?
01:02:09.679 --> 01:02:10.400
All connected.
01:02:10.559 --> 01:02:13.280
You can't tell you're driving from one to the other, right?
01:02:13.519 --> 01:02:24.960
Um, yeah, so it's we got a steel store here, like we got several steel suppliers, heat treaters, uh coatings, um coatings are half an hour away.
01:02:25.039 --> 01:02:26.480
Everything's really close.
01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:27.760
That's really nice.
01:02:28.159 --> 01:02:29.519
Yeah, that helps a lot.
01:02:29.760 --> 01:02:30.800
It does, yeah.
01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:33.039
Yeah, kind of we're kind of the opposite of that.
01:02:33.119 --> 01:02:40.239
You know, we're not in well, I guess you can't really consider it a small town anymore, but as far as industrial stuff goes, I mean, we're on an island.
01:02:40.400 --> 01:02:41.440
There's nothing around us.
01:02:41.920 --> 01:02:46.079
When you have Atlanta, you know, it's an hour or 20 at least to get down there.
01:02:46.480 --> 01:02:46.719
Get there.
01:02:47.199 --> 01:02:49.119
As soon as you get there, it's a nightmare to get around.
01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:54.079
So who knows how much time is gonna be added if you wanted to run down there to grab something.
01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:54.639
Right.
01:02:54.800 --> 01:02:57.920
Um, Atlanta traffic is pretty historically bad.
01:02:58.079 --> 01:03:03.119
So yeah, we pretty much can either go to Atlanta or Chattanooga.
01:03:03.280 --> 01:03:03.920
That's our option.
01:03:04.559 --> 01:03:07.840
And that means you're you're doing a lot of planning ahead.
01:03:08.800 --> 01:03:22.559
Yeah, I mean we we ship everything, we don't even bother trying to drive to these places, even though it may be cheaper, you know, to send somebody, you know, send the guy that would pay 16 an hour to go do it, but he's gonna be gone for the entire day almost if something happens with traffic.
01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:23.199
Yeah.
01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:25.840
So yeah, we just make sure to ship ahead.
01:03:26.159 --> 01:03:33.519
Try to try to add plenty of buffer time in there for shipping things to plating or heat tree or right, right.
01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:40.079
Well, boys, uh, I know Ron's got to get to his barbecue, barbecues on Friday in Canada.
01:03:40.639 --> 01:03:46.079
Yeah, hey Ron, are you gonna use that uh Tennessee seasoning that I sent you?
01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:48.000
I'm using it this weekend.
01:03:48.079 --> 01:03:48.320
Yes.
01:03:48.639 --> 01:03:49.039
Nice.
01:03:49.840 --> 01:03:51.039
Let me know how it is.
01:03:51.280 --> 01:03:51.760
I will.
01:03:51.840 --> 01:03:54.639
I was talking to my wife about that uh this morning, actually.
01:03:54.880 --> 01:03:55.599
That's awesome.
01:03:55.920 --> 01:03:57.760
So it tastes like no income tax.
01:03:59.039 --> 01:04:00.000
That's right.
01:04:01.039 --> 01:04:05.039
No income tax and moonshine and yeah-hoos.
01:04:05.440 --> 01:04:07.039
Uh, how do you get your offsets?
01:04:07.199 --> 01:04:08.559
He's just a millbilly.
01:04:08.719 --> 01:04:10.559
Are you touching it with the wire to pick him up?
01:04:10.800 --> 01:04:13.599
And it depends on what he's questioned about about the offsets.
01:04:13.679 --> 01:04:27.519
If you is he talking offsets like you would move your milling, move your cutter over another Tower or something, or um it's it would be very similar to uh to a CNC machine.
01:04:27.760 --> 01:04:35.679
Basically, you're you're doing a rough cut, and then as you're you get more experience, you're gonna figure out how much offsets to do on your skim cuts.
01:04:36.400 --> 01:04:44.880
The machine will pre-populate those numbers as you're doing the program, uh, but you always go in there and fine-tune them.
01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:45.519
Yeah.
01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:49.199
What about your work coordinate, like your G54, for example?
01:04:49.280 --> 01:04:51.760
What would that be on an ADM?
01:04:52.239 --> 01:04:53.920
So it's very similar.
01:04:54.239 --> 01:04:54.320
Okay.
01:04:55.039 --> 01:04:55.519
Yeah.
01:04:55.760 --> 01:05:03.519
You can spend the time and and do a like a G54, G55, and do different uh different coordinate systems if you want.
01:05:04.079 --> 01:05:10.800
I know we we could always use the wire basically almost like a probe and pick up the center of a hole or an edge.
01:05:11.199 --> 01:05:11.440
Yes.
01:05:11.679 --> 01:05:17.360
Um do EDMs have like I assume it would be the Z-axis, but like a height probe?
01:05:17.519 --> 01:05:19.599
We always set ours with a shim.
01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:28.079
That's the way we set our machine ours, because we don't, they're older machines, so we use a shim 4000 shim to set ours.
01:05:28.239 --> 01:05:34.880
Uh I'm told some of the newer machines uh have a probing system that will get that all for you.
01:05:35.039 --> 01:05:36.719
Uh but I have not seen that myself.
01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:37.519
I'm that's just here.
01:05:38.559 --> 01:05:42.320
But yeah, we we've set the height with the sh with our 4000 shim.
01:05:42.800 --> 01:05:43.119
Okay.
01:05:43.519 --> 01:05:52.559
Steel Coengineering, who was the guest on our last episode, uh, asked, what is the thickest and thinnest part that you've ever cut?
01:05:54.079 --> 01:05:57.519
The thickest is 16 and a half inches.
01:05:58.159 --> 01:06:02.880
Um That's only because that's how the max of our machine.
01:06:03.039 --> 01:06:05.840
I think our machine goes sixteen point six inches.
01:06:06.320 --> 01:06:06.960
Wow.
01:06:07.840 --> 01:06:10.719
We did have a request for twenty inches a couple weeks ago.
01:06:10.880 --> 01:06:12.880
We had to turn that down, unfortunately.
01:06:13.119 --> 01:06:16.480
Um yeah, that piece uh we do a lot of gears.
01:06:16.719 --> 01:06:20.000
We'll cut keyways and gears um or splines.
01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:23.519
And so uh some of those gears are pretty big.
01:06:23.679 --> 01:06:28.400
Um you'll see on some of my episodes where we the gears hanging outside the machine.
01:06:28.639 --> 01:06:33.119
Uh we got a support under there, and it takes me two hours to set it up.
01:06:33.199 --> 01:06:40.400
And we wrap it in a plastic bag because you can't obviously fill the tank because you run it dry or you know with the doors down.
01:06:41.360 --> 01:06:51.119
Um so that long cuts prevent, you know, they're great because like that that cut was uh the rough cut was 60 hours.
01:06:51.440 --> 01:06:52.000
Damn.
01:06:52.239 --> 01:06:52.880
For that one.
01:06:52.960 --> 01:06:53.280
Yeah.
01:06:53.519 --> 01:06:54.320
Holy smokes.
01:06:56.960 --> 01:07:06.320
No, you gotta change you gotta change the spool and then try to feed the thread, feed the wire down through 16 and a half inches where you just cut.
01:07:06.559 --> 01:07:06.880
Yeah.
01:07:07.119 --> 01:07:12.320
But does it just stop in place when it runs out and you load a new spool, feed it straight through where you had just cut?
01:07:12.639 --> 01:07:12.960
Yes.
01:07:15.679 --> 01:07:33.920
And there's little tricks as you're uh the the trick I used, so if in the in that case, when I'm feeding the wire down, I kind of push it against the edge that isn't cut and let that guide it down into the into the knot, into the the head on the bottom.
01:07:34.079 --> 01:07:40.400
And usually that works, not all the time, but it is tricky, yeah.
01:07:40.719 --> 01:07:58.400
Um so those you know, those cuts are nice because like I said, there's 60 hours for for one pass, and then you you throw a couple skim passes in there, one or two, and you're you're uh you're easily a full week of of cutting, as well, which is which is nice.
01:07:58.559 --> 01:08:02.559
Um the thinnest uh we've cut is 10 thou.
01:08:03.840 --> 01:08:21.920
Um turned out to be a real pain in the ass because of the vibration actually from the water, not so much from the cutting, but because you have flushing bottom head and flushing head, you turn we turn the pressures way down, but the vibration was so much the wire was breaking.
01:08:22.159 --> 01:08:28.880
Um after that first cut, we we now sandwich parts together.
01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:41.119
So if we have 10,000 piece, we will take uh two quarter inch um make flat ground stock, sandwich it between the 10-tal piece, clamp it together, and away you go.
01:08:41.199 --> 01:08:47.439
We actually find it cuts faster that way than actually cutting the really thin material.
01:08:47.680 --> 01:08:49.920
Are you able to mix materials in that situation?
01:08:50.239 --> 01:08:52.720
Or do you your sandwich plate the same?
01:08:53.199 --> 01:08:54.239
Uh you can.
01:08:54.319 --> 01:08:58.079
We like to keep it the same, like steel on steel, or aluminum on aluminum.
01:08:58.399 --> 01:09:10.800
Um, if you do sandwich plate with steel and then you have aluminum in between, um, or vice versa, because they cut at much different rates, you'll get a different burn than what you anticipate.
01:09:10.880 --> 01:09:10.960
Yeah.
01:09:11.359 --> 01:09:11.920
Makes sense.
01:09:12.159 --> 01:09:12.560
Yeah.
01:09:12.960 --> 01:09:20.560
Uh Wills JD561 can EDM replace traditional methods like grinding slash hard turning slash milling.
01:09:21.039 --> 01:09:23.199
In certain applications, yes.
01:09:23.359 --> 01:09:24.479
Yeah, for sure.
01:09:24.640 --> 01:09:34.800
Just like a friend where that was uh a jig grinder, um, you know, that that replaced a lot of jig grinding, the wire edm as long as it's through.
01:09:34.960 --> 01:09:36.960
And then even sync EDM, right?
01:09:37.119 --> 01:09:40.079
You can you can get really accurate with sync EDM as well.
01:09:40.239 --> 01:09:44.479
So to a point it can replace it, it just depends on the application.
01:09:45.359 --> 01:09:50.800
It it did uh back in the day when I was working at that shop and when I first started, right?
01:09:51.279 --> 01:09:56.880
We did form grinding and um you know cutting punches and stuff.
01:09:56.960 --> 01:10:05.680
I would lean on the bandsaw for days, you know, roughing out a punch that he had scribed with blueing, and I just sit there and I'd lean.
01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:13.600
I I build a cross piece, so I'd have a piece of two by four going here and I'd going down, and I just sit there and lean for days on this bandsaw.
01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:14.960
Oh my goodness.
01:10:15.359 --> 01:10:19.119
And then he was one of the first shops in the area here.
01:10:19.279 --> 01:10:22.399
So we're talking 1988.
01:10:23.199 --> 01:10:31.359
Uh he was one of the first shops that were wire EDM, and um that took that all the way.
01:10:31.680 --> 01:10:34.720
All of a sudden, it's all getting wire cut.
01:10:34.800 --> 01:10:40.880
So there now you're not form grinding stuff and grinding all the forms and shape in, you're actually wire cutting it.
01:10:41.920 --> 01:10:42.960
Very cool.
01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:52.560
He did so well within here, does so back then the machine was$250,000 in 1988.
01:10:53.439 --> 01:10:56.239
And he did so well he paid it off in the first year.
01:10:56.560 --> 01:10:58.000
Wow, and bought a second.
01:10:58.399 --> 01:10:58.880
Wow.
01:10:59.199 --> 01:11:07.199
And I remember it was a tape machine, so I had to feed the tape in to uh to get all the coordinates.
01:11:07.279 --> 01:11:12.319
Yeah, it was and he would make me clean out the filters.
01:11:12.479 --> 01:11:14.479
That's I worked there in the summertime, right?
01:11:14.560 --> 01:11:16.079
So I'm I'm just the kid.
01:11:16.239 --> 01:11:22.640
So I go outside and and spend half a day cleaning the filters out because filters were a fortune.
01:11:22.720 --> 01:11:26.960
So you you get the garden hose out and a scraper and you clean them out.
01:11:27.920 --> 01:11:35.520
I'm yeah, I'm just covered at the end of the day, but he's got clean filters, and and then it's it's progressed from there.
01:11:36.239 --> 01:11:37.760
That's crazy, man.
01:11:37.920 --> 01:11:39.359
That's amazing, though.
01:11:39.600 --> 01:11:43.119
We usually ask shop owners this do you take walk-ins?
01:11:43.520 --> 01:11:44.479
Yeah, yes.
01:11:44.720 --> 01:11:45.279
You do?
01:11:45.439 --> 01:11:46.479
Okay, we do.
01:11:46.640 --> 01:11:47.039
Yep.
01:11:47.279 --> 01:11:57.439
It doesn't happen very often, but uh quite often, or not quite often, but when it does, it's it's usually a pretty neat project, and then yeah, we'll we'll tackle it.
01:11:57.760 --> 01:12:01.439
So everybody, if you need your dirt bike or snowmobile part, call Ron.
01:12:01.760 --> 01:12:03.039
Yeah, that's right.
01:12:03.279 --> 01:12:06.800
Yeah, everybody that calls me, I'm giving them your number.
01:12:07.279 --> 01:12:07.840
Yeah.
01:12:08.720 --> 01:12:09.840
It's it's interesting.
01:12:10.000 --> 01:12:14.560
Like um one thing I didn't mention earlier is we do reverse engineering.
01:12:14.960 --> 01:12:17.600
Um, so we do scanning.
01:12:17.680 --> 01:12:21.279
Uh so sometimes we we do car parts actually.
01:12:21.760 --> 01:12:22.239
Huh.
01:12:22.880 --> 01:12:23.520
Yep.
01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:28.399
Um, we scanned a uh this going back a little two years ago.
01:12:28.640 --> 01:12:35.680
This um this one body shop we deal with, uh, they heavily customized the 1967 Chevelle.
01:12:36.399 --> 01:12:43.439
So we went and scanned the back end of the Chevelle and then scanned an original.
01:12:43.600 --> 01:12:50.960
I was able to get a hold of the original set of taillights, scanned the original taillights and designed new ones to fit into this car.
01:12:51.359 --> 01:12:52.159
That's pretty cool.
01:12:52.319 --> 01:12:53.359
Oh, that's awesome.
01:12:53.600 --> 01:12:56.000
Yeah, I remember you telling me about that at IMTS.
01:12:56.079 --> 01:12:56.560
That's cool.
01:12:56.800 --> 01:12:57.520
Yeah, yeah.
01:12:58.079 --> 01:13:01.279
So hopefully we'll see the car at a at the car show next year.
01:13:01.439 --> 01:13:03.520
But I mean these lights were a fortune.
01:13:03.600 --> 01:13:08.239
I can't imagine how much they cost when you're and they were he had them 3D printed.
01:13:08.399 --> 01:13:08.880
Yeah.
01:13:09.199 --> 01:13:09.680
As well.
01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:24.079
Um, but yeah, we get we do get walk-ins once in a while, and um as long as they're not adverse to you know what it's gonna cost, that's sometimes it's you know it's not fifty bucks to do something anymore, right?
01:13:24.399 --> 01:13:26.560
Um, but yeah, we will do that.
01:13:27.840 --> 01:13:30.239
I guess it depends on the quality of your walk-ins.
01:13:31.039 --> 01:13:32.720
Yeah, honestly, yeah.
01:13:32.960 --> 01:13:34.960
Most of ours get turned away.
01:13:35.840 --> 01:13:41.840
Um we had uh I was I was at a car show um February or March.
01:13:41.920 --> 01:13:46.720
Uh we had a booth there on this in my second year, just as a trial for reverse engineering.
01:13:46.880 --> 01:13:49.119
And it was I felt bad for this guy.
01:13:49.279 --> 01:14:11.439
Uh older guy, he brought me uh he saw me the first day, he he made the effort to come back the second day and and brought me this taillight out of uh 86 or 87 Mustang and wanted to know how much it would cost to you know scan it, put the models together because they don't make them yet, right?
01:14:11.680 --> 01:14:22.720
And then I gave them the price, and you know that it's probably about between 40 and 50 hours of CAD work to make this work, right?
01:14:22.880 --> 01:14:25.760
It's not just the scanning, the scanning is the easy part.
01:14:26.000 --> 01:14:31.840
It's actually putting the putting the CAD together so you have a usable piece of CAD to machine to, right?
01:14:32.239 --> 01:14:45.039
Um, so give them the price, and the poor guy almost fell over because it's it's and I you know I gave them my price at a discounted rate, and I I didn't expect them to pay you know full shop rate.
01:14:45.199 --> 01:14:51.520
Um, but sometimes people just uh don't quite understand what's all involved.
01:14:51.840 --> 01:14:52.399
Right.
01:14:52.640 --> 01:14:54.239
Yeah, yeah, that's for sure.
01:14:54.720 --> 01:15:03.039
Most of our walk-ins are retired guys, and they expect you to just drop what you're doing and fix their lawnmower blade for twelve dollars.
01:15:03.439 --> 01:15:06.479
So on the senior citizen discount, can you?
01:15:06.880 --> 01:15:07.359
Yeah, I know.
01:15:07.600 --> 01:15:08.079
Yeah.
01:15:09.039 --> 01:15:12.479
I think I can uh he sent me some pictures.
01:15:12.560 --> 01:15:18.479
He wanted a piece of trim scan for this old car of his that you can't buy.
01:15:18.560 --> 01:15:19.600
You can't buy this trim.
01:15:19.680 --> 01:15:26.000
And then made out of stainless and it's it's it's bent and it's got profile going up like this.
01:15:26.159 --> 01:15:28.159
It's not an easy part.
01:15:28.560 --> 01:15:40.720
The scanning wasn't too bad, but then like I told the guy, you know, what you're looking for, there's probably about eight hours of machining in this thing per piece, yeah.
01:15:41.439 --> 01:15:44.720
And then see, and he had told me I was interested in talking to him.
01:15:44.880 --> 01:15:51.199
He told me you know he owned a couple gravel pits, he had a couple other businesses, like he knew what the value of time was.
01:15:51.760 --> 01:15:57.840
And then I gave him my price, and he's like, shit, I trade more, that's more than my engine I paid for.
01:15:58.560 --> 01:16:00.880
Oh wow, wow.
01:16:01.199 --> 01:16:03.760
I've had I've had some guys hassling me before.
01:16:03.920 --> 01:16:18.720
It was this old guy and his friend that came up, they're probably in their 80s, wanting some trim pieces made that like went around the window of like a 40-something Ford and wanting to know if I could get it done this week.
01:16:18.960 --> 01:16:22.079
And I'm like, that's not an easy thing to just make.
01:16:22.159 --> 01:16:24.079
Like, I can't just whip that up real quick.
01:16:24.159 --> 01:16:26.720
That's a lot of machining, a lot of reverse engineering.
01:16:26.960 --> 01:16:30.159
You know, that's not honestly something I'm even interested in doing.
01:16:30.239 --> 01:16:33.760
And they looked at me like I had just like kicked their dog, they were so down.
01:16:33.920 --> 01:16:35.840
I'm like, sorry, man.
01:16:36.800 --> 01:16:38.239
It's just not helping war.
01:16:38.560 --> 01:16:40.079
Yeah, exactly.
01:16:40.399 --> 01:16:42.000
I think it's a good time to wrap it up.
01:16:42.319 --> 01:16:46.079
Ron, you have a uh an impractical tip for us, don't you?
01:16:46.560 --> 01:16:47.119
I do.
01:16:47.279 --> 01:16:51.760
Yeah, one thing I've learned over the last few years is never stop innovating.
01:16:52.079 --> 01:17:04.159
It's gonna keep you ahead of the curve, and see jobs that have stopped and just kind of relied on wow, this is how we've done it in the past, and this is how this has worked, so we'll keep doing it.
01:17:04.319 --> 01:17:06.800
And so most jobs aren't around anymore.
01:17:07.199 --> 01:17:12.479
Keep innovating, keep looking uh to make it easier, better, faster.
01:17:13.520 --> 01:17:16.239
I got a lot of people can learn from that for sure.
01:17:17.359 --> 01:17:21.600
Like I said, bro, uh you know thanks for joining us, and uh thanks for having me.
01:17:21.760 --> 01:17:23.039
Yeah, it's for that.
01:17:23.439 --> 01:17:25.119
Yeah, we'll see you at IMTS.
01:17:25.760 --> 01:17:27.920
We'll see you at IMTS, looking forward to that.
01:17:28.000 --> 01:17:28.800
That's gonna be fun.
01:17:29.119 --> 01:17:30.479
Oh yeah, that'll be great.
01:17:30.720 --> 01:17:31.600
Thanks again, man.
01:17:31.760 --> 01:17:33.039
Yeah, yeah, thanks guys.
01:17:33.199 --> 01:17:34.560
Have yourself a great weekend.
01:17:35.039 --> 01:17:35.920
Have a good barbecue.
01:17:36.479 --> 01:17:37.920
Yo, looking forward to it.
01:17:39.359 --> 01:17:39.840
Thanks.