The Hit Factor Ep 244: Sam Matt, Nathan Barnes, Jay Beal, Saul Allen

The Hit Factor Podcast: welcome to the Hit Factor Podcast. My name is Jay Beal. I am joined by Saul Allen, Nathan Barnes, and your new national champion, Cary Optics national champion, Sam Matt. it is it is a panel tonight. and that's where I I'm gonna I will defer over here to to Saul. We're all hosts of the podcast, but I'm just gonna defer to Saul now for Further introduction things.
Saul: no no
Nathan Barnes: Mm.
Saul: national champions first. You come to me like
The Hit Factor Podcast: Okay.
Saul: a hundred and thirty-fourth.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Top one top one fifty, we have all made it. Sam is the top one. So Sam, welcome. Glad to have you here.
Sam: Thank you. Welcome, fellow fellow hosts.
The Hit Factor Podcast: I think we should continue this whole podcast by just welcoming each other to the podcast.
Sam: Yeah.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Nathan. Nathan, what are you how are you feeling?
Nathan Barnes: I'm feeling pretty good. I'd also like to note that a few people in here, or maybe just one person's an open GM. that's notable. That's important thing to
Sam: Rub it in.
Nathan Barnes: mention.
Sam: Don't rub it in.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Open.
Nathan Barnes: Yeah, one one person in here I think's a Open GM.
Saul: Didn't Adam Grimm just get OpenGM? I bet he wish he spent
Sam: Did Jay you wrong seven dollars?
The Hit Factor Podcast: He did he messaged me, he did.
Saul: that time practicing cary optics instead.
The Hit Factor Podcast: If only.
Sam: I've been trying. I made it my side my side quest.
The Hit Factor Podcast: It's really hard. It's really hard.
Sam: I did I think I I think I finally got one
The Hit Factor Podcast: You'll get there someday.
Sam: I think I finally got one like good like one over a hundred percent and it was it was can you count? Like the the dumbest dumbest classifier
The Hit Factor Podcast: That's kind of impressive actually. I feel like it might be.
Sam: we have or had. I think it's gone now, right?
Saul: It's still here.
The Hit Factor Podcast: It might still be there.
Saul: It's it's on the to be nuked list.
Nathan Barnes: I think that I think that day I shot two like eighty five percent classifiers. So I'm not very close to open GM.
The Hit Factor Podcast: You need some twenty five series. That's what you need. Before they get nuked.
Sam: Yeah, watch those all
The Hit Factor Podcast: Or flash banged, whatever. Either
Nathan Barnes: Yeah.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Either one will do it.
Sam: Well, I think that's what we should talk about
The Hit Factor Podcast: So
Sam: all night is classifiers and how to make open GM.
Saul: Yeah, I think
The Hit Factor Podcast: I don't
Saul: I think really if if I were not here and instead I were pressing play on my podcast app, I'd be thinking, I'd love to hear Nathan Barnes, Jay Beale, and Sam Matt discuss classifier strategy for using minor guns to make GM and open. So I'm glad I'm glad we've landed sort of at the crux of things up top. There will be very little dilly-dallying.
Nathan Barnes: Especially
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Nathan Barnes: right after nationals. This is important stuff to discuss.
The Hit Factor Podcast: I think more importantly, like s the stage plan itself. Like on twenty five, whatever the whatever, do you start on the left or the right?
Saul: On the twenty five, is it draw and shoot ten times as fast as you can while moving across a narrow space? Cause I've heard of this plant.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, do you cut the corner on the L or like follow the L around, you know? This is very important. I think we need to try to figure out how to shoot a hundred and ten percent on on all the classifiers.
Saul: All right, so in the spirit of that, let me just ask it like another nonsense question. So Sam, at the end of day one, you went to bed knowing you were in the lead and you know, your phone blowing up with everybody telling you how you're in the lead. And then at the end of day two, you went to bed in the lead and with your phone blowing up and everyone telling you in the lead. And then at the end of day three, you won the match. Did you
Nathan Barnes: Didn't go to bed.
Saul: know after day one you were going
The Hit Factor Podcast: James Cup.
Saul: to win?
Sam: S did I know when what?
Saul: Did you know you were gonna win after day one? Did you know you were gonna win after day two? Did you believe you were gonna win after day two?
Nathan Barnes: Yeah.
Sam: yeah. Yeah, I think so.
Nathan Barnes: Which day was worse?
Saul: Sorry, this is like our only chance to get real information from you because very soon as a national champion you will transform into Sam Matt Enterprises. At which point only your close friends will ever, ever hear a true word out of your mouth again. This is
Sam: Mm.
Saul: the fate for all USCSA greats. So I just kinda have to hit you with the hard questions now when there's still a chance that we'll we'll get sort of an honest answer.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Mm-hmm.
Sam: Before I forget to because I might forget these things.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, you might forget. You might forget. So we should get them while they're fresh. So let's go to let's go to the end of the match and the last day. and those stages and how the last day kinda unfolded and what happened to scores on that last day for a few people that were closer to the mix. so You're sitting in in the lead. I don't think you ever lost the lead it in the entire match. if I'm I don't know. Maybe in like the first couple of stages, I don't know if you were up, but you shot really well in the first and second stage, so probably you were.
Sam: I know Brantley was beating me off off the first stage.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Okay. And and then the second stage was yeah, we w we didn't get to fix time yet. But
Sam: Your favorite?
The Hit Factor Podcast: Anyway, to the end of the match, there were a few there were a few people up there. you, Adam Grimm and Mason. And Brantley, of definitely.
Saul: And and brilliantly, yeah, I was about to say.
The Hit Factor Podcast: In Brantley. and then Adam dropped off pretty quick. We were not shooting with Adam, but he or did he drop off the day did he shoot no, it was the same schedule.
Saul: No, it was it was shooting stage fourteen. he had two mics and then in a stellar example of sportsmanship got it changed to two mics FT SA.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Stellar. And so he was then out of it and Mason had a few really good stages early on, again, not on our squad. and Brantley what it brandly pick a penalty that day on the last day or no? Yeah.
Sam: On the la on the last stage.
Nathan Barnes: I think he was fine till the last stage. Yeah, last stage.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Last stage. Yep. Which he was I mean, I was talking to other people on the squad about this, on how it was kind of fun to watch as just a fan of the sport. Because on the last stage you were up after Brantley and Brantley had was it essentially like thirteen points back? And then or no you were up first. You shot first.
Sam: Yeah, I shot before him and I had a I think I had a fifteen point lead going into the last stage.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yes. And then it was just like what's what's Brantley gonna do? And then he picked up he picked up a penalty there, had had a couple couple things not not go super great on the last stage, and then at that point we we knew you were in it. Mason also had like he he was there and then fell off, I think, on one of those one of those last three stages or four stages. At least from what we were seeing with the scores.
Sam: Yeah it was kinda harder to to watch
The Hit Factor Podcast: So
Sam: Mason shooting a different schedule too or a different order of the same stages too 'cause you know, it's like he would shoot a more more point heavy stage and then you know more difficult to track
Nathan Barnes: Well,
Sam: shooting.
Nathan Barnes: Sam doesn't like watching high available. So Sam watches without high available. So then it's even a little more funky.
Saul: That's the correct opinion. You're just looking at match points. And if people are shooting different stages, then you don't know what the match points are until you're down
Nathan Barnes: Right.
Saul: to two, three stages, at which point you have a reasonable approximation. Yeah. Watching high
Nathan Barnes: Yeah.
Saul: available entrusting Eugene's algorithm, which is taking the average points lost and projecting them onto all future stages while disregarding things like stage wins is not smart if if you're talking about differences of three to five match points. I think after day one like to like zones, they had people out of order bas d despite actual mash points accumulated because of the average
Nathan Barnes: They did. 'Cause they had
Saul: points lost, algo.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, this
Nathan Barnes: It had Brantley above Sam and Sam had like four or five more points or something than him.
Saul: I think yeah, it's like two in change, but yeah, exactly.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, I mean I I preferred the old high available where it would just gave everyone a stage win, essentially, ahead of where it was. So then you would at least have an accurate
Saul: How many points are left? And how many points have you accumulated?
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, how many points are left? Yeah. so yeah, it's a good point.
Sam: Isn't that don't they have like map math points? Isn't that what that is?
Saul: Yeah, so if you take if you d deselect high available and and you see max points, then but even even max points isn't really real because of course if you have a stage win, you'll take points away from somebody who already has them. And
Sam: I see.
Saul: you did have a couple stage wins in this match, right, Sam?
Sam: Only one.
Saul: Only one.
Sam: Well, I I had two.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Which stage?
Sam: I had two. And then Adam came up once the match was over and was very proud to show me that I was now second on that stage and he had gap
The Hit Factor Podcast: thirteen?
Sam: he had gapped me by fifty
Saul: Yeah, by like si sixteen percent.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Dash.
Sam: Yeah. Yeah.
Saul: Yeah. Representative results.
Sam: Yes, so.
Saul: Which stage
The Hit Factor Podcast: Mm.
Saul: did you keep? Was it eleven or somewhere in zone
Sam: Seven.
Saul: two?
Sam: Seven. Yeah.
Saul: Seven.
Nathan Barnes: So what I have a more direct question. What night was worse after day one or after day two? Or like did you sleep fine and it was just normal?
Sam: I slept I slept poorly after day one. When we had to wake up in the morning the next day. Yeah. And so did everybody. We were staying at an Airbnb, there were like eight of us. And the first night we got there, we all slept great. Like we all woke up and were making comments about like wow, we never sleep great. Like the first night in the new place, but like, wow, we slept great. And then the second night, I think we froze over the AC unit, so it got hot and we all woke up and we're like we slept terribly
The Hit Factor Podcast: And then how did you sleep this the going into the last day?
Sam: not as good as the first night, but better than the the night before.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah. Are these like as far as your thoughts bumbling around in your mind, what what are those kind of going after the day and then going into the new day and kind of showing up on the range? What are what are some of those thoughts that you think that pop right now for you?
Sam: I don't know, like it it it it was sorta just like a it was an another match, you know, it's like we've been shooting all year with I guess that that's the first time I got to shoot with you since last year, but like shoot with Nathan all the time. We'd already shot with, you know, like Jacob previously this year, like we s it's a lot of the same the same people. we're doing the same thing and and all having a good time. Nothing was like It didn't seem like there was anything that any of us were particularly worried that, like, we we might not be able to do that. And I think the what needed to be done to do well on each of the stages was was not super difficult to to figure out. And I think think we we talked about this a little bit too but it felt like the the the type of shooting that would get you a a good score on the majority of the stages was a a type of shooting that it like maybe like naturally suits suits us better. Like I think like Saul I don't I don't know about I don't know about you but I know for like Nathan for Jay like the to go like too fast takes like you have to be very intentional to like force yourself to go too fast. And if we like don't force ourselves to do that then we naturally tend to like collect more points and just slow down just a little bit more than maybe someone like like Jacob. And I think that was like that sort of trait was more suited to to these stages. I don't know. What do you guys think?
The Hit Factor Podcast: What do you think, Nathan?
Nathan Barnes: I thought that on pretty much the the majority of the match there was not a lot of room to gain, but there was a lot of room to lose. but then I say that and like Jacob came from way back, he found ways to gain. It just it felt like there wasn't the type of stages where you could kind of knock it out of the park. Like I felt like I put up a damn good run on a few different stages and like afterwards look at the score and I'm like, okay, so did everyone else. Like there was nothing that I could do there much better to like separate, you know. so I I think there was a lot of stages that had much more to lose than there was to gain. And even on the the the bigger stages, you know, that were difficult, some difficult shooting, those stages seemed They seem like there there wasn't a way or the hit factors weren't set like in a way to make the big risk worth it. and so I think like the majority of us were just like, okay, yeah, I'm gonna go out there and shoot the targets and like that's my score and it's and it's pretty good, and I just need to avoid a huge mistake. I would like to know on stage sixteen, Sam, that was like your worst stage of the match.
Sam: yeah.
Nathan Barnes: and that's another that's another stage where they're like there's
Saul: What wa he got to the low eighties on a stage. I know. What happened?
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Nathan Barnes: Well, I mean, he did he gave up like thirty points or or so. and so like had you not done that, right? Like had you had you been where you were on the most of the stages in the nineties, you'd go into the last stage, you know, thirty points in the lead instead of fifteen. And thirty points is a you know, much bigger cushion. but like on that stage, kind of what happened and then like What did you have to do after that stage to kind of get back into it?
The Hit Factor Podcast: Good question.
Sam: So for that stage, and that's that's the stage I lost, I lost a lot of time on that stage, and I lost that time shooting at steel. And let's see, okay, so for that one, my time was 2085. Jacob did it in 1677, Vlieger did it in 1688, Adam did it in six- Okay, so people are doing it in the 16s or 1980s. Seventeen okay, so Barnes, you were fourth on that stage. You did it in the same points that I did, but you did it in seventeen sixty nine. So looking at at least three at least three seconds off the pace. that stage I wasn't I wasn't paying attention to the the shooting order and I went to go grab something from my bag and I looked up and I saw the guy who was shooting right before me. I saw him making ready. And and then it clicked. I like, I gotta shoot next And I was like, I should probably grab my mags and put my camera on and do all the things that I normally would have done two shooters ago. And I went up I'd s I I could have like rehearsed my stage plan a little bit better. I didn't do it as many times as I normally would have because I was like rushing to to get ready to go shoot. But it's not like I forgot my stage plan or something or like missed a position or anything like that. It's just I took s I think I took like five or six makeup shots. Steel A
Saul: You took seven.
Sam: seven. Thank you. Yeah. Rub it in. it took that's right.
Saul: One on the first big activator from the back and then and went to war in the front.
Sam: One that yeah, it was it was rough. And that was actually kind of a theme. Like there were not a lot of stage.
Saul: You smoked that draw though. That draw was in the seventies. You smoked that draw. Who cares about the steel? You smoked the draw to the close one on the right.
Sam: There we go. I'll just
The Hit Factor Podcast: Ha ha ha.
Sam: post the first one and a half seconds of that stage then.
Saul: I gotta cut
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Saul: it sooner than that because you were done with it so fast you were already missing the steal by one and a half seconds in. You post the first
Sam: Yeah.
Nathan Barnes: you you cut
Saul: second.
Sam: Great, great.
Nathan Barnes: you cut one whole split off me shooting at something on the draw because I think I did like a one something draw in that stage. So one of your makeups on steel probably was free on me.
Sam: Yeah, I that happened to me a lot. Normally
Saul: and and and
Sam: Go ahead, so
Saul: No, no, no, you go ahead.
Sam: I was gonna say like I would I would normally like consider steel to be like one of my strong suits. Like I lik I like seeing far steel. I like seeing a lot of steel on stages. if there's an opportunity to like shoot medium distance steel on the move, like I'm all for it. And I had more stages where I did not go one for one on steel, then I had stages where I did go one for one. And I don't I'm not quite sure why. that's like the worst I've shot. So for example, last year's nationals, I went one for one on steel the entire match, with the exception of the the one where you had to shoot the like the twenty yard mini poppers one handed. The one that you crushed, Jay. So I'm not quite sure what happened with that. But that's yeah, that's what happened on that stage. Is I
Saul: I I have a theory and I'm curious the three of you about this theory because many, many people who are good at shooting steel struggled at this match. you less so than most of them, even though by your standards it it it felt like more makeups. I think it was the prevalence of open paper. Cause I think open paper was a huge part of the match and I loved to see it because it let hit factor shine and so those charlies add up really quickly. And you can't really survive them. But when I'm thinking about my errors, I think the kind of sloppiness I can get away with with open paper, I would bring to that medium distance steel, because it was overwhelmingly 12 to 18 yard mini poppers on most stages that had steel, with a couple of exceptions, either either direction. And I think I brought the kind of sloppiness I was bringing to open paper onto the steel. versus if I'd been shooting a more partialed up match, I sort of visually and mentally would have been equipped to sort of do that kind of shifting more frequently. But it was almost always I shoot two open papers and then I enter on steel, or I shoot steel and then I shoot two open papers. And I I don't know if that was intentional by Hopkins, but it was very effective. Because I watched a
The Hit Factor Podcast: It's
Saul: ton of people good at shooting steel like send uncharacteristic makeups.
The Hit Factor Podcast: I mean like me and me included in that. and I it's funny now that I hadn't thought about that, but now that you bring it up, the times that the stages that I shot steel well were when there was a partial entry prior to steel or when it was a pure steel entry. and then and then aft when it's like opens after, or it means sorry, opens before it was it was not as good. nearly. I th I recall a stage specifically shooting like three or four extra and transitioning between the steel, like back and f I don't know. What it was just not good, but that was followed by too close open paper.
Nathan Barnes: That is great success for J Beal, by definition.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, I mean I Sam brought up earlier
Saul: We all heard him at the beginning of the year say I wanna be missing steel.
Sam: Yeah.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yes, it's the thing I said. You know, and and it happened. It it I got exposed. And I w and Sam to what you s what you were saying earlier about me being a disciplined shooter who is able to shoot points and all that stuff, I'm sorry, I have broke the system. I am no
Sam: Yeah.
The Hit Factor Podcast: longer that. I cannot I cannot be associated with you guys. It's just
Sam: Mm.
The Hit Factor Podcast: it's just not available to me.
Nathan Barnes: Jake can no longer not not a knot.
The Hit Factor Podcast: I
Nathan Barnes: I think personally a lot of the steel makeups we saw were because the stages were heavily open paper, and so you're like, okay, I just gotta smoke these two steel and I can keep going. So like with so much open paper, it's like I can really run through this stage. Like that's where I can separate, is if I can smoke the steel and hook up. And then when you didn't, you just ended up with everyone on the on the scores. Like there was plenty of stages where I like unload show clear and I'm like, well, that that totally sucked. Like, what am I doing? Like hit the target, you know, like use the sights. And then like walk away, you know, dump my stuff, start pasting, re fresh scores, like look at it, and it's like mid-90s. But I'm like, wait, what? I shot like six shots at that steal. Like that, I should not be in there. But I think because the majority of people are, you know, doing that. They're also on mo like pretty much all the stages, there's a handful of steel and they're in different positions. So like even if I get through the left side of this stage, amazing, if I get to the right side, like the stage that had the the low open through the port and the far tucks with the hardcover plates, that stage, for example, like bad on the left, one for one on the right, and like really good on the right array, my score was fine. But like walking away from that stage, I feel like I just got my teeth kicked in because I'm like shooting at the steel, pulling off and like transitioning back to it. And I'm like, what am I doing? But I think with that much steel and in different positions, like you just saw it kind of worked out in the end. Like one of our our second to last stage was that weird little L shaped one with the three positions in the front. Like I think a c I mean, maybe all of us coming out of that port into the the steel for that middle position, like shot a few extras. I shot that stage and I'm like, that sucked. Like, you know, way to finish strong. One like two stages to go, I'm just blasting a steal. And then again, like the score was fine.
Saul: You won that with
The Hit Factor Podcast: I think
Saul: two makeups, right, Jay?
The Hit Factor Podcast: two yeah, one was on
Saul: One on the steel on one on the steel in the center port and then one on the open paper on the final left entry.
The Hit Factor Podcast: It was one on the 'cause I went center port first, that one was clean, and then it was one on the right side entry steel, and it was one on the left side entry paper.
Sam: That that makeup you had on steel though, I remember watching you shoot that. That makeup that you had on steel was like almost didn't count 'cause I think that was like I wanna see what that was, but that makeup was like had to have been less than a twin.
Nathan Barnes: It was one of those sh shoot so early that it's a free miss if I don't hit it.
Sam: With that. Yeah.
The Hit Factor Podcast: I was inspired by you on that, Nathan, 'cause I think you sent two very, very early. And I was and
Nathan Barnes: Yeah.
The Hit Factor Podcast: I and I think you did it a couple of times during the match where you had very good steel makeups. It wasn't like aim and miss. It was shoot early on the steel and then and then you have a miss and then and then you you're able to like correct it. And those ones cost way less.
Nathan Barnes: That was definitely per like on purpose. It just a couple times was the I'm just missing steel here. Not like I not like I shot
The Hit Factor Podcast: It's hard to re Yeah.
Nathan Barnes: super early and the second shot's free and I nail it or like I hit it on the first shot. It was like I'm just missing. Like stop missing. Yeah.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yes, yes, same, same. It was this was a good example.
Saul: Nobody at this match got to a final position with their feet planted and sent, you know, three rounds both pieces of steel.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Nobody.
Sam: Is it twenty?
Saul: Like all up and down the match, by the way, right? Like I've th the the level of suicidality I heard from this match was honestly unparalleled. I mean I i there's certain people who say that all the time, even when they win. You know, they're they're one more mic away from eating a bullet, but just yeah, there was there was a lot of that. A lot of people just
The Hit Factor Podcast: It was a ref for a lot of people.
Saul: stubbornly refusing to do things they knew how to do.
Nathan Barnes: I think because there's nowhere to separate. So it's like I just I want to do the thing that I can maybe potentially separate on. Like instead of being like, Okay, I don't need to separate, I just need to to continue to be in there.
Saul: So I want to hear from Sam way more than me, but the good shooting fairy visited me on my flight home. We get we landed in our final airport, and the good shooting ferry was there waiting for his guns. True story.
The Hit Factor Podcast: True story.
Saul: his flight was diverted to my the airport I was landing at, which is not even my normal airport, and just by happenstance. And he said something to the effect of at his level, and he's a very good good shooting fairy. You'll look at things on the stage. And think if I just do what the stage is asking, that is not enough. And so you'll look for more things to do. And he said that he can beat more talented shooters, by just doing what the stage asks and letting them make mistakes from trying to do more because they don't think that will be enough. And from the outside, I've no idea how Sam perceived his shooting, but it looked like he was just doing what the stage asked him again and again
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Saul: and again. With like
Nathan Barnes: And that's why I hate shooting with Sam.
Saul: tremendously like low drama.
Sam: That was so that was kind of
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah. Yeah. Sam Sam I I mean, that's my perception as well of what you did.
Sam: And that's that's somewhat of what my perception is too. At least that's what I was kind of trying to do, was like I just was gonna go up and shoot the stage as best as I could in the way that I thought it was asking to be shot. And I felt like I couldn't do a lot to like earn my points, people were gonna have to give them to me.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yes. By by specifically apply I I'm ta like talking about myself now, by specifically trying to do something on the stage that was more than what the stage was asking. And sometimes in multiple areas on the stage. Where it's like here, let me do these two things that if they both work out perfectly, this will be a very good run. And At best I get half of one of them.
Nathan Barnes: I think that was really
The Hit Factor Podcast: and
Nathan Barnes: hard.
The Hit Factor Podcast: No, go ahead, Nathan.
Nathan Barnes: I think for me and w what I'm trying to do and what I was trying to do at that this match, like that nationals. I didn't want to completely fall back into old habits. and so even when it like is not completely logical, I was still wanting to force myself to try and do what you're talking about. Like I don't want to look at the stage and go, Okay, I just need to do what the stage is asking me. Like I want to do more because old Nathan would do like he would walk up to a stage, look at the stage and go, Okay, this is what is asking me to do. How can I make it even safer? And like I don't want to shoot that way. So I'm just not going to. And like stage two is a good example. Like I shot four or five shots at the first piece of steel on the right before I hit it. Like that's fine. I I would rather do that than what I would have done a year ago of like I'm gonna stop in that position. I'm gonna aim really hard at all those steel. And I bet the score would have been the same. So it's like shoot five, maybe I connect before the five. Obviously, avoid trying to shoot five, but like for where I'm at, for where I'm trying to be, it's better for me to do that right now than just okay, I'm gonna stop here, I'm gonna aim really hard at every one of these steel, I'll go one for one, nailed it, and then it's like all right, 80% on the stage. Okay, well, that sucks. That's not gonna do it. I think watching Sam. Almost every single stage looked exactly like Sam shoots. Like there was maybe one or two times where I'm like, okay, that's not that's not what Sam does. Stage 16 was one of them. I think it was 12. He missed an activator big popper. We both started in the back, like and it was like tiny like 16 was more apparent because it was more shots, but 12 like activating that popper. Any match I've ever shot with Sam, that would not happen. but I think it's like it it's in little spots like that where there's not a lot you can do to to make anything happen. And Sam did great at that. Like he just he did what the stage asked him to do. I I made a comment to Sam, quick sidebar, about this exact thing because Brantley had that wall hit that was like deep into the wall on
The Hit Factor Podcast: Mm-hmm.
Nathan Barnes: whatever stage that was, the the very small one.
Saul: The one where you
The Hit Factor Podcast: Day two.
Saul: start up front, you step back to the right, I think Isaac Lockwood is stage eleven maybe. Paper, steel,
Nathan Barnes: Yeah.
Saul: steel, steel, paper, run to the back right, two outside papers, one through the through a port.
Nathan Barnes: Yep. So on the right side, Brantley like wall hit deep into the wall. and it looked like he was trying to make something happen on that stage. Like his shooting was was quite aggressive for what that stage was. and I think that's a perfect example of like he was trying to make a little bit of something happen and there was just no room for it on that stage. And then he ends up way out of it with a mic.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, I mean there y s Sam, you were in a position pretty much the entire match that you did not need to make anything happen. and where other people were in a position where they badly needed to make something happen. maybe not bad I don't know. I mean, like it'd be interesting to talk to Brantley about all this stuff as well. I mean any of any of you guys. But I I think that that's That's so interesting. So I I wanted to ask you about your a couple things, but but first your feelings on that last stage where you did go first and your feelings before you shot that and kind of like that whole run. Like pressure wise as well. Or if you like like talk us through that a bit.
Saul: And and contextualize it for people the I don't know, the three people who listened to this weren't at the match. But it was a nutty stage. It's an unloaded start
Nathan Barnes: And
Saul: with a minimum of five positions with mag stashed places, right? Like it's it's ki it wasn't actually a bad stage, but it was kind of it had the appearance of a a bit of a circus before you should
Nathan Barnes: And Sam, how many times did you get a shoot second against Brantley?
Sam: seventeen out of the eighteen stages.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Sam: Or sorry, no, no, other way around. The other way around. Brantley shot Brantley shot after me for seventeen and eighteen. yeah, walking that walking that stage, like I walked it the day before, I walked it the morning of, and I was like, I still don't know what I'm gonna do. Like, there's so many options, and it seemed like some of the options, it all seemed like when you're walking them that they were about equal. And then we started looking at scores and hearing what people did, and it was like, whoa, why is that one three or four seconds slower? Than that way. Like it doesn't seem like that should be that way. Like you had people running to the front right, to the front left, to the back left, to the back right. Like people were doing that every which way. And they were getting really different results. And so I don't know, I figured out what I wanted to do. I don't remember exactly.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, it was not clear.
Sam: Yeah. And that one I definitely felt the most the most pressure. before shooting that stage, then I did the rest of the match. But I was still like I remember feeling excited to shoot it too. And then I grabbed the gun off the table, loaded it, ran to the back corner, and then like smacked my hand into the table. And I was like, I was not expecting that. I was like, okay. And then the position that I finished in. Actually no. So I kind of slipped, hit the table in the back, and then when I got to the front right, I slipped really hard too, so I had to shoot three at that at that tux. And then in the very last position, I slipped and like crashed into the table with my shoulder. which I was also not expecting. and then the stage was over. And I was like, I think that went okay. And then he called out the time and I was like, Okay, that's that's faster than I thought that was gonna be. And I knew the I knew the hits were were fine. And yeah.
Nathan Barnes: Were you were you worried at all that it wasn't enough? Or were you like, Well, it just is what it is?
Sam: I I wasn't I I knew I obviously I still wanted to watch everybody else shoot, but I I I knew that like I felt like it was enough. Yeah, I felt like it was enough. I was pretty confident that Jacob had already done the math. Like by the time I picked up all my mags and walked back, he'd already done the math and Brantley was gonna have to do it faster than anybody had done it the whole match with perfect points.
Saul: So so did you f when you said you thought it would be enough after you heard the score, or I mean like after you heard the time, w because when you finished, were you still thinking about smashing your hand on the back right little barrel, slipping on the tucks, and then smashing into the front left barrel? Like you ran into every table they put out there. Which hilariously, by the way, were considered part of the shooting area. So because they were afraid people were gonna run into them and they didn't wanna be as assessing procedurals, which is why they all had a little blue border. So they were all part of the shooting area. So if you're leaning against it when you shot it wasn't a a a footfall.
Sam: I didn't know that. I definitely thought it would have been and I like remember trying to like pull myself off of the barrel before I started shooting.
Saul: Yeah, they they did a bad j some people did a good job of explaining that something but in that sense of relief, you're like, Okay, I think that's that's enough. Is that once you heard the time? Until you heard the time, w I'm just curious this is a like your psychology. Are you thinking about the things you just slipped and ran into? Or are you thinking about what you saw or
Sam: I I don't remember exactly what I was thinking in those like three seconds before he read out the time after I'd finished shooting. but like I mean I I I knew that if I didn't make a big mistake, like if I didn't have if I didn't plug a nose shoot or you know, absolutely go to war on there were only a couple pieces of steel there, so there wasn't really even a huge opportunity for that. But like if I didn't shoot a ton of makeup shots or shoot through a wall or something, that that it was gonna be that it was gonna be fine. So I knew like after just like the shooting part. Like the shooting was good. I knew the points were good. and so I I think I like felt good about it before he called out the time, but I I can't say for sure.
Saul: But you knew you just had to do good enough. You needed twenty nine scoring hits and you were gonna be very difficult to catch.
Sam: Yeah, like I wasn't I wasn't trying I wasn't trying to do as well as I ended up doing on that stage. Like I didn't set out
Saul: I was about to say 'cause your your stage run on that is actually very, very good.
Sam: I think that was what was what did it end up being? I think it was like a fourth place run on that stage. No. So
Saul: Yeah, it was a fourth place round on
Nathan Barnes: Yeah.
Saul: like ninety three and changed percent. The people who beat you was J J
Sam: yeah.
Saul: who just knocked it absolutely out of the park.
Sam: Yeah.
Saul: Weichel who who did really well on it and I forgot who the other person was. Who was it? Jacob.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Shot. Jake Jacob. I th or d Jacob and Weichel shot Al Alpha on it.
Saul: Yeah, like two seconds slower but clean.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah. and then and then Brantley Brantley ran it and and we we kind of talked about this a little bit, but I wanted to hear I wanted to hear from you your immediate 'cause I saw like I we w s a few of us were watching your reaction after Brantley shot it. And and no like we all you know, at this I want Brantley to do well. I want you to do well. This is like as a fan, I'm just kind of trying to you know put together what's going on here, but but what is what was your immediate reaction after because we kind of knew it from the from a visual on the run, we didn't have to see target points come through for Brantley's run. what was your immediate reaction? 'Cause
Sam: Yeah.
The Hit Factor Podcast: I have my analysis of it, but I want to hear yours.
Sam: Well, I think on what was it, his fourth target he clipped the no shoot. Think it was a sport and then someone like someone said something like 'cause I was I don't know, I was watching him but I couldn't see that target from where I was and someone said, he he clipped the no shoot. and I was I was bummed that he that he hit the no shoot. I didn't want it like I didn't want him to do bad. I told him afterwards. I said like hey like hey man, like I I wanted to beat you but I I also like I wanted you to do well. I didn't want you to to hit another shoot.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, I think I think I heard you say like during his run or right after something along the lines of I didn't want it to be like that or like I didn't want I didn't want him to do that or you know, 'cause Ye i in something in that sense, which kind of Which is a pretty I don't know, it's a very respectful response, I think. Instead of just being like, Yeah, got him, like suck it, you know. So I thought that was I I I admired that. I thought that was cool.
Saul: I mean, to be clear, unless he won the stage by six and a half percent, the math wasn't there for him. Right. So
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yes.
Saul: take away the delta, take away two seconds, take away the no shoot, and now he finishes ninety-nine point eight percent of you. Right. I mean, like not not that you were doing that math in your head, but it wasn't like, if he hadn't hit that no shoot, he was that close. It's like, no, if he was two seconds faster, he didn't shoot the delta, he didn't shoot the no shoot, then he would have finished a closer second.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Saul: Like you you had you had you had like a night and again, so that's I'm not saying you're you're that's what's in your head, but to to someone who's looking at that, it's not just like, I was this close and then I missed it. It's like, no, he had to be Superman on the last stage. Like nothing
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Saul: short of Superman was gonna catch you once you shot.
The Hit Factor Podcast: What what I what I saw from Sam was was more along the lines of it would be cool if he just had a good run and I still beat him instead of kind of a bummer of a run, even though you're kind of beating him regardless.
Sam: Well and also like in in I guess
The Hit Factor Podcast: You don't have to comment on that, Sam, but
Saul: Y you'll never you'll never win anything with that attitude, Sam. You need to have the killer instinct.
Sam: Ha ha And I mean I guess like also like for Brantley too, like placement wise, like it didn't like it didn't really end up mattering that he that he hit the no shoot anyway.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Doesn't change.
Nathan Barnes: Sam, do you remember what you said about the stress?
Sam: Which which time.
Nathan Barnes: At the end of the match I was like, you know, are you stressed or like how are you feeling or whatever? Do you remember what you said that you I I think people would find that funny to hear.
Sam: this out where well someone asked me the same question before the start of the match. Like, what do you like the pressure, the stress, like how do you how do you manage that? And this is like a very this is a third third hand quote at this point, but I heard I heard somebody say that they heard this guy say this, but it it was a a quote from Max Sa Grandis who apparently said, I just remember that nobody cares about this. And then that makes me feel better.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Mm-hmm.
Sam: And I forget who I told that to.
Nathan Barnes: Win or lose, nobody knows what it is you're winning or losing.
Sam: I know I know Buck was there when I said that 'cause he thought that was hilarious and he kept making me repeat it. I was like, it's not even my quote. I don't even know if I'm accurately like attributing this quote to Max, but yeah, I don't I don't know. And like
The Hit Factor Podcast: It's yours now.
Sam: I like the
Nathan Barnes: Ha ha ha.
Saul: Yeah, th that's now a Sam Matt original. But it's not true. It's like nobody in the broader world cares that you won. But like all 497 people who finished behind you care that they didn't. Right? So it's like your success means nothing
Sam: Mm.
Saul: to the broader world. But all of our collective failures mean everything to us. So you still had an impact.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Saul: Starting with Brantley, I'm down, you made everybody's day a little bit worse.
Sam: Just
The Hit Factor Podcast: True. Very true.
Nathan Barnes: You made my day much better. You gave me something to cheer for. So
Sam: Ha ha.
Saul: Yeah, I mean I I'll be honest. Having you guys, and Brantley and Jacob and you know, and and w and and Weisshow,
The Hit Factor Podcast: is the b
Saul: like having those people on the super squad, it's like this is like there's no losers here, right? Like there's lots of people
The Hit Factor Podcast: No, that's very true.
Saul: to be happy for.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, I think many times on that last day and throughout there was so much discussion on on the squad itself and it's like this this can't be improved by much. Like this is pretty good. This is a pretty good squad. Solid.
Nathan Barnes: I had a ton of fun, my first time on. It was
Saul: It will have two hundred percent more knack in June.
Nathan Barnes: Great time.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yes. That'd be that's one individual that will get added.
Saul: Yes. One individual will add two hundred percent more neck to the super squad in June.
The Hit Factor Podcast: I don't think either of you guys have shot with him before.
Nathan Barnes: Nope. I t I talked you're if who you're talking about is who I'm assuming. I talked to him quite a bit walking stages and we kept catching their squad, so I talked to them quite
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yes, we did.
Nathan Barnes: a bit there. which I didn't really mind. Like I don't mind backups. It's like, perfect. I just hang out and not worry about anything for a little while and watch them shoot.
The Hit Factor Podcast: I I think we s I think we caught them on it most every stage because they were all afraid to tape targets. I think that's what happened. They were like I c I'm not gonna help and be yelled
Nathan Barnes: Yes,
The Hit Factor Podcast: at.
Nathan Barnes: yes.
Saul: Well, be careful what you say, because given the darkness of Sam's video, he could be US PSA unmasked.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Whoa. Sam, is this true?
Sam: I was hoping to keep that a secret a little longer.
Nathan Barnes: Not nearly bald enough.
Sam: Not yet. Getting there.
Nathan Barnes: Well,
Sam: this was this was one question that I got.
Saul: Come join the winning team. You can't just be me and Hunter forever.
Sam: This was
The Hit Factor Podcast: I'll be next.
Sam: this was one question that I got that I think would be interesting for for everybody to
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, yes, please get into those.
Sam: answer. so like what did your what what was your dry fire and your live fire like in the the two weeks leading up to the match?
The Hit Factor Podcast: Alright, hit us with it, Sam. What was it like? Two weeks.
Sam: for me, okay. I'm scrolling through the rest of these. Most of these are about the wrestling match that was after the match. so that's what the people want to hear.
The Hit Factor Podcast: You'll have to talk about that a little bit. Yeah.
Sam: Yeah. all right, leading up to the match. I did shoot a little bit more than I normally do, but not like a not a ton. think I shot I shot twice instead of once, like the week. yeah, I think instead of shooting like once a week, I shot twice a week. for the two weeks leading up before it. And then dry fire didn't change normally. It's like twenty minutes a day. and that that didn't increase or or or decrease.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Cool. Saul, what was yours like? I actually don't know. I don't know what
Saul: Literally didn't touch my gun for two weeks. Literally.
Nathan Barnes: Yeah.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Literally zero practice. cause that what I heard? Sorry.
Saul: no, I mean I sh I shot more than I normally do. Like I made it out to the range every time I could. this time of year we're running into daylight issues all across the northern hemisphere. And so for me shooting after work, you just end up with these really compressed windows. I have to say I went into this match feeling more prepared than I can ever remember going into a nationals and doing significantly worse than I ever have. So take that for what it's worth. but it was the way I normally shoot during the summer, just higher round counts in shorter time, mostly for daylight reasons. But I I I arrived feeling very prepared. Like I was doing a thing in training that I was in control of and it was and it felt like a good thing to do. It felt like honestly the way the Sam Matt shoots not like as good as him, but the style, the approach, the sort of mentality, there's a very sort of like clinical, confident, tidy executions, doing what the stage asks. at a level that's ninety five percent of the time going to work out. That's kind of what I was focused on training. And it turns out I'm much better at doing that, all by myself. 'Cause I didn't do that
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Saul: on a single stage. Not one. There was eighteen of Didn't do that on any of them. How about you, Nathan?
Nathan Barnes: I think I went out one more time than would be normal for me to live fire. and I was just shooting alone, so I mean it's it's kind of whatever it is. and I was just kind of going through, you know, a few different stages or whatever in my own setup and I was feeling good like, yeah, stage one, let's do it. I I didn't really feel great or off or anything. I just kind of felt neutral to it all. which I do think was a little bit of my day one like personal issues I had where some of the intensity probably in my last like couple of practices wasn't quite where I needed to be. and so what happens for me is that leads to like lack of visual intensity. So I'm just not looking as fast as I need to to a you know precise enough spot. And then that's kind of all I did to change between day two and three, or going into day two and three. And then it was like overall those days were much better. So I think Yeah, the the like the last time I went out was like, Yep, I'm shooting alphas and I'm like the gun feels how it should in my hand and I'm looking at spots and I'm like ready for stage one. There wasn't really anything that was different, I guess. I didn't like ramp up for it, I guess.
The Hit Factor Podcast: What's your dry fire like
Nathan Barnes: a f I don't know, five times a week, twenty minutes, thirty minutes.
Saul: I don't believe either of you, but carry on.
Nathan Barnes: Typically, if I go live fire, I won't dry fire that day. Like hardly at all. So if if I'm shooting, like say Wednesday, I'm gonna go shoot and practice, right? I just won't dry fire that day. I'll do some when I get to the range, like a little warm-up. I try and treat it like it's a safe table. and then I'll live fire. Sometimes if I leave really frustrated, I'll get home and I'm like, I'm gonna fix that. And I'll dry fire. but Typically it's just like twenty minutes a day and I have like what I've started doing more recently is I'll have like some topics that I want to fix about my shooting and I'll set a timer for five minutes and it's like if I get through three or four of those topics, I really focus hard because the timer's running for those five minutes. Like by the time that's up, I'm like, Yep, I'm good. so I mean, for for nationals, I didn't really do more than I've been doing. this year I think I've I've been doing more just because I can. so yeah, it didn't really change. I mean I shot like once or twice a week in the lead up. I I really wish there was another match that I could have shot. I feel like that's been lacking a little bit this year, is like the matches haven't been what I've wanted. But other
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Nathan Barnes: than that, yeah, it was fine.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, I can relate with the matches not being like not lining up the way that I would like specifically. like if we I don't know, there's just so many like I I matches are so good coming off of a match to then go pretty quickly into another one. Like I'm just like that's such a nice I don't know, it you get you're kinda hungry to fix the little things that you wanted to fix and then you get an opportunity to do it.
Nathan Barnes: So Jay a answer the question.
Saul: To well d too bad that you guys don't have a match coming up.
Nathan Barnes: Well we do. So I
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Nathan Barnes: got I shot day two and I was like, can we do Ipsic nationals right now? I'm ready to go. Like I'm so amped. Yeah, like I'm yeah
The Hit Factor Podcast: Your now's good. I don't think I don't think I was ready after on day two, but
Nathan Barnes: Ignore day one and ignore day one, day two, day three, like can day one of Ipsy Nationals be to tomorrow? Like I'm ready to go for that. I know what to do.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, I was I was I was telling Saul I think yesterday like I'm let's do IPSC right now.
Nathan Barnes: Yeah. So after you answer, if you did any more or changed or what were your two weeks like, I have a follow up.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Okay. Okay. I did normal amount of dry fire, which has been I'm c I mean, I've been thinking about it quite a bit here, which it might not be optimal. It's like wake up in the morning dry fire where it's where it's like I'm waking myself up and then by the time I'm awake I'm done. so I don't know how valuable that is. and so I'm now doing like my wake up in the morning dry fire, but then I'll do another session, which I wasn't doing before. because I was live firing every day. and trying to do a bunch of other stuff that like it just required of me. and so I think that's probably why that other session wasn't coming in. But yeah, I mean, I was doing my wake up in the morning dry fire that's kind of like slow and like, you know, blinking awake. so And then I would do a a live fire session after that, or at some point later on in the day. and all of that training, and so that was just every day. so it was very regular. But all of the training and and I did this kind of intentionally of making I wanted to feel rushed and crammed to fritter live fire instead of like a really long build up in Live Fire. I wanted to have I gave myself like three, four weeks where I was gonna hit it pretty hard. And I also at the same time was not building it in any kind of way that would like very much intentionally not to prep myself in behavior for a certain match. So I felt like very neutral going into it, like kind of like what you had said, Nathan, as well. which I don't think is optimal for me, but I wanted to like I was training things really hard, I was pushing really hard, doing stuff that I would do normally, like very far out from a major match. and that's like very fun for me. So I was just like, I'm gonna do this right up until the match. I don't
Saul: Y you were taking nutty shots on the move and like teaching yourself how to shoot things on the move that nobody shoots on the move. Like
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yes, yes.
Saul: two days before you flew there. You were working on like how can I how can I how can I,
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah. I was making myself like very sore.
Saul: you know, move at a brisk pace past a tuxedo laterally at eighteen yards and land consistent good hits, right? Which is just not a thing we do.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, like very fun. It's not a thing we do, it's also very fun. So that's what that's what my stuff was like. And some other things, but not related to shooting.
Saul: Jay, come on. Y this is your only chance to publicly cope. You gotta you gotta lay it all out there. You didn't touch the gun literally for two weeks. Your cat was sick. You know, your
The Hit Factor Podcast: sorry. Yeah. I didn't dry fire at all. I didn't lie fire.
Nathan Barnes: Where the
Saul: Wait, there was a match? You didn't even know you were at a match. He thought he was going to get a break for
The Hit Factor Podcast: I just appeared.
Saul: spurrito and they made him shoot eighteen stages. So, you know, he did pretty good in
The Hit Factor Podcast: Just appeared at stage one.
Saul: those circumstances.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Stage one in the super squad hadn't trained for three weeks. Yep. That's the official story.
Nathan Barnes: How about that r how about that ratio?
The Hit Factor Podcast: gosh. Yeah.
Sam: Okay.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Like I mean that just weird stuff. Weird stuff. Like I skipped around off the f first popper, right? Off the edge of it, hits another popper, and then I get to the end of the stage and And I was given a reshoot on it, but they didn't that they didn't get the scores. So they couldn't have given it like when when the decision was made that actually I should have kept that score, then the decis like that decision couldn't be could not be a f followed through with because my score did not exist. Instead what
Saul: Although in fairness, no one on your entire squad unlocked the stage like Keith Larkin, so
The Hit Factor Podcast: That's true. Keith Larkin shot that so well.
Saul: So good. So smart too.
Nathan Barnes: Yeah, but
Saul: He started on the right. It was genius. Genius. He also
The Hit Factor Podcast: He was so smart. He started on the right. It's kinda cool.
Saul: just shot really well. But
Nathan Barnes: I had way more fun than he did, so I don't care.
Sam: Yeah. I just liked how we start.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, shooting that
Saul: yes,
The Hit Factor Podcast: that
Saul: I I shot the stupid fire target on a move and I had fun and I shot six at those little poppers and that was less fun.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, I shot some extras of those two. Three altogether.
Saul: Down my level.
Sam: I saw I I
The Hit Factor Podcast: Trying.
Nathan Barnes: Okay, as the
Saul: Please
Nathan Barnes: host of the
Saul: don't.
Nathan Barnes: show, I have a f
Sam: I liked how the first stage the first stage in the match
Nathan Barnes: Go ahead, Sam.
Sam: we got to draw we had to draw to a thirty-five yard mini popper, shoot a couple targets, and then you had a great opportunity to shoot a target that was thirty-five to forty yards away on the move. And that was like that was the play for that stage. That made me really happy. I was like, Yeah, that's that's awesome. Like let's do it. And then watching the squad kind of split and watching all the people who took that target static 'cause they were like, No, it's too much risk have the same hits as everybody else who took it on the move and be two seconds slower.
Nathan Barnes: I don't think it was an ideal stage to start on, but I don't think there's ever been a stage like at a major, my first stage, that I felt that good on where I'm like, I'm shooting this target on the move. I don't care what all these guys that are like national champions or whatever are saying that it's crazy. I'm like, I'm absolutely shooting that target on the move. And I felt no stress about it. I'm
Sam: Yeah.
Nathan Barnes: like, yeah, I'm gonna nail this.
Saul: They finally give you a logical time to shoot a 35 yard target on the move, where it
Sam: Yeah.
Nathan Barnes: Yeah.
Saul: it makes actual sense. Well, you have time to send a third if you need a third at it without really losing much, right? Where it's the lower risk play
Nathan Barnes: I was watching my
Saul: is to to walk and shoot a really far target. That's great.
Nathan Barnes: I was watching my video back. I wish I would have shot both on the move. The two
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Nathan Barnes: that were there on the right. Like I wish I would have shot both of those.
Saul: Be done with be done with one more of the downrange ones before you get down there.
Nathan Barnes: Yeah, one less static target at the end. and if I alpha charlie there on the move, like that's great. Perfect. my follow-up question was Between matches like this, or or say after Ipsic Nationals, like most of us don't have a lot going on, right? So when we say, all right, you know, after day one we made some changes or whatever, or like, you know, I got this list of things I want to fix, are any of them like actual I guess changes, or is it more of like an approach thing? Is it more of a focus thing? You know, like I I don't think really any of us shot nationals and we're like, I gotta change the way I hold the gun, you know, or I've gotta change the way I press the trigger or you know, the way I use the sites. Like I I don't think for any of us it's changes like that. I know personally none of my changes from nationals that I'm reflecting on are that way. but I I was wondering what you guys feel. Like is that how you guys feel as well?
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, th I mean that it's just the approach thing that like that has to be refined a little bit more. And that's maybe that's training approach in in a in a way, but but certainly match approach. and then anything beyond that that is technical is a is really subtle that I know I'm not gonna be able to change in a really short amount of time anyway. I mean there's things that I'm gonna work on going into a match But I think that's more it's still along the lines of that it's gonna remind me of what I need to do as far as a match approach, more so than give me a skill that I don't have. I'm curious for I mean you you kind of said it, but like Sam, I mean you you obviously won and you don't have to do anything differently, but do you have things that you're gonna be approaching matches in the future that are gonna be different?
Sam: Yeah and and like
The Hit Factor Podcast: I mean it's a it's tricky.
Sam: Right. And like Nathan when you said that like the first thing that I thought was like, well actually like I do want to change like the way I like pull the trigger or like use the sights. Like on steel, like I need to s like on steel I need to use the sights more and I need to be more careful when I pull the trigger. But
The Hit Factor Podcast: Because it's it's because it's because Sam executed the match perfectly as far as like his approach. So so obviously he's
Sam: Well well no, I didn't.
Nathan Barnes: Well but also Sam knows these things 'cause we practiced a couple of weeks ago and he's like, I gotta use the sights and press the trigger better.
Sam: Yes. Yes. And I told you and I told you. We were practicing and we had we had these two we had two mini poppers at thirty five yards. And we we set him up and he like Nathan builds the little mini stage for practice and we're gonna move into a position and when you get to the position the poppers are at thirty five yards and you start in the back and you move up towards them and he goes, Okay, so would you shoot these On the move. And I was like, no. Why would who would do that?
The Hit Factor Podcast: Natural question.
Sam: And he goes, I would do it on the move because I did this yesterday and it's faster to shoot him on the move. And then he made me shoot him on the move, and it was like it, yeah, it was it was way faster. And I was like, Huh, okay. But we did a lot of missing. A lot of missing. Okay, I'm pretty sure I missed more on the steel than I did hitting the steel. And like somewhere a couple hundred rounds in, I
Nathan Barnes: But we both determined
Sam: Yes, it was faster,
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Sam: provided you hit him. But what we found out is that we tried to do it like we we set it back to back, right? Okay, we're gonna do three runs, we're gonna try to hit it the first try on the move, and then we're gonna do three tries where we run up static, shoot on the move or shoot static, try to hit him first time every time. And we didn't hit him the first time on any of the runs, regardless.
Nathan Barnes: We determined you have to use the sights and and press the trigger correctly, regardless
Sam: Yeah, yeah. That was my
Nathan Barnes: of on the mover or static.
Saul: I refuse to believe this. There's got to be another way.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Dang it.
Sam: No, no.
The Hit Factor Podcast: I'm yeah, I was hoping that there would be another way. Come on.
Sam: Yeah, well that's how I was shooting the ste I was shooting the steel like it was another way, but no. And then I turned to him and I was like, Hey, remind me if we see far steel that the dot has to be on the steel and then I have to pull the trigger more carefully than I would on most other targets. And then yeah, yeah, thank you. Thank you.
Nathan Barnes: And I forgot to remind him on stage 16. I nailed it. And then as soon as
Sam: Thank you.
Nathan Barnes: as soon as Sam shot, they scored it. I I gave him a couple minutes because I'm like, no way I'm gonna go talk to him right now. I know enough to not go bug him. And so a couple minutes later, I go, Sam, everything's fine. Just remember you got to use the sights and press the trigger correctly.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, yeah.
Saul: So so there's actually a maybe none of you have experienced this, but there's a cognitive like failure on my part when I set up really difficult things in training, which is is I go out and I try it and it doesn't work. And I'm like, well, that bothers me. And so I want to make it work, and then I make it work. And then by the time I'm done training on it, I think I have assimilated that skill. And I forget that I'm zero for one on first run efforts at shooting that steel on the move. I have never gone out and done that on the first try, even if I'm seven for ten, like over the course of the training. And so then like I get to the match, and in my adult brain, it's like, well, you know, this is 70% likelihood of success. It's like, yes, if I got to run it 10 times back to back, 70% likelihood of success. For me
The Hit Factor Podcast: Okay.
Saul: personally, certain tasks, 0% likelihood of success on one of one run.
Nathan Barnes: In our very scientific testing, we determined that even if you missed, it was still better. So for Sam and I, it was like, yeah, we're going for it. Stage one doesn't matter. What we forgot to remind ourselves of is you have to use the sights and press the trigger correctly.
Sam: Yes.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, it do it it's crazy. We
Saul: Can't you just go for it harder?
Sam: Yeah, apparently not.
The Hit Factor Podcast: it doesn't matter if you're static if you're static or if you're on the move f shooting at steel, that still applies. Like that seems crazy. I know. But I it's
Sam: And no, and that was the lesson. That was the lesson.
The Hit Factor Podcast: it's it's not like a free card.
Sam: Yeah. And then my takeaway from it was, if there's thirty five yard steel, you just shoot that on the move 'cause it's faster. Instead of remembering, Hey, when you're shooting that steel,
Saul: Yeah.
Sam: regardless that's out past twenty yards, you gotta center that dot up in the middle of the plate and then you gotta pull the trigger kinda carefully.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, i i it if you're moving it doesn't yeah, still it stays. And hon honestly, like that I'm I'm hearing you guys say this and this is making sense to me and this not what I was doing a lot of the time.
Nathan Barnes: Me neither. and what I forgot is that the strategy is the strategy
The Hit Factor Podcast: Why weren't you reminding me?
Nathan Barnes: is correct, but I need to cue the things that get me the result I want, not just apply the strategy. Because subconsciously I don't cue the thing that gets the result I want. I'm just focused on the strategy of doing the thing. And it's like, this is the better strategy. I've trained this. I know this. I forgot to apply the list of cues that gets me the result in the end. So then I shoot five shots at a popper.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, yeah.
Saul: If it's not just steel. Yeah, it's not just steel.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Not just you.
Saul: It's if I pick up these two pieces of paper before I get to the port, it is a better strategy. And that is objectively true. And everyone, you know, like can pick up those two pieces of paper before they get to the port. However, me deciding to pick them up before I get to the port does not guarantee that I will hit them or hit them near the alpha. Like me doing the thing that involves my dot in the center of the target. And holding it there until the gun goes off, that gets me the alpha. Me deciding to be done with them before I get there doesn't get me anything. Yeah. It's a critical
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, that very
Saul: error.
The Hit Factor Podcast: critical error. I mean, I that specifically. So that's stage fourteen. I well, I was like, I'll make this strategic decision to shoot these two targets while I go up to the window. And then I filled all of that time shooting two Charlie on the left one, Alpha Charlie on the right one, transitioning back to the left one, filling that in with another Charlie, and then and then continuing. And so i again, very, very important. What what is it? Sights
Saul: Sights and trigger?
The Hit Factor Podcast: Sights have to be in the middle, and then you pull the trigger without moving it.
Nathan Barnes: Like you tell me I I'm you beat me. I'm trying to learn from you.
Saul: Sam, tell us, what's what's the rule for hitting things?
The Hit Factor Podcast: Sam, what is the rule? How do we hit things?
Sam: You clearly, sir, you clearly were not watching me shoot steel at this match.
Nathan Barnes: No, but what I'll say about stage fourteen is
Saul: You did have what, thirty seven makeups on the match that made it into the timer?
Sam: How many did I have?
The Hit Factor Podcast: Thirty seven makeups.
Saul: Thirty seven.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Jacob had fifty something.
Saul: Jacob I think had fifty six or fifty seven. Th then again, that's makeups that made it under the timer, 'cause the timers weren't perfectly it level with shooters the whole time. So you can s assume a few more.
Nathan Barnes: I'll have to research my makeup shots.
The Hit Factor Podcast: I bet it was a little bit more than me.
Saul: I was a little bit disappointed in Jay ex but not terribly friended. The show and fellow co co host Kyle Narkom actually didn't take that many makeups, but then you take eleven on a stage and it inflates the number a little bit.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Is it Yeah, what do you have? Forty forty one?
Nathan Barnes: Kyle didn't take many makeups.
Saul: Yeah, Kyle had forty one, but it was like Kyle, you didn't really have forty one makeups, you had eleven on this particular stage, and then you had thirty.
Nathan Barnes: Kyle didn't take a lot of makeups, he just let the hits be what they were. He just kept moving forward. He was not worried about making up shots.
Saul: So Kyle, I I So I shot with Kyle and he shot really well. He shot pretty well day two and really well day three. but day one, he and I had the same experience that I didn't change of watching yourself shoot Charlie's. Where it's it's almost an out-of-body experience. It's like you're looking at the target, watching yourself shoot Charlie's and wondering, why did I just shoot another Charlie? Like I didn't get anything for it.
The Hit Factor Podcast: What am I gonna do about this?
Nathan Barnes: That was my day one for sure. I remember there was a stage with Ipsyc targets. There was like three opens along the back, but you shot them kinda in different spots. And I had like two Charlies really tight group on one target, the next target, same thing, really tight group, two Charlies, next target, same thing, really tight group. I'm like, okay, three targets in a row. They're calling out two Charlie, two Charlie, two Charlie. I'm like, that's not gonna cut it. That is not working. And I think
Saul: Do you know who doesn't do that? Sam Matt.
Nathan Barnes: No, definitely not.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Didn't do it.
Nathan Barnes: No. Sam
Sam: Yeah for the first day.
Nathan Barnes: had the same group size. They were just in the center of the target. but I think what happened is
Sam: I'm that's what made my really angry about stage one was you got to the end and those targets at the end they were still like twenty, twenty-five yards, and they're like one, two, three, four, like four opens at the end. And I told myself before, I was like, those you just need, like the math isn't there for Charlie's. Like you just need to just post up and just shoot two alphas and all the targets. So I like did I shot like the correct pace to shoot two alphas on all those targets. It's like bop, bop, bop, bop. Bop, bop. They go up to the first two targets and I could see the hits. They're like right next to each other. Two Charlie. Two Charlie. I was like, great. I shot worse hits standing static on a twenty yard open target than I did the thirty five yard target I took on the move.
The Hit Factor Podcast: It's a better off shooting better off shooting the three
Saul: Should have shot it on the move.
The Hit Factor Podcast: the three thirty five yard targets on the move, that would have been the play.
Sam: Yeah.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Thought about it.
Nathan Barnes: I think what happened there for me shooting the Charlies is I told myself like to aim more, but I d I just didn't have, like I said earlier, the visual aggression to looking to the center of the target or like the correct spot. So then I'm like aiming more, you know, shooting a smaller group. It's just not where the hits need to be to to score best.
Saul: You're holding your attention, like but you didn't queue up putting your attention in the right place. So
Nathan Barnes: Yeah.
Saul: behind the gun, as you're shooting these Charleys and you're aware of it, you're aware that they're not great hits, but you're also doing the thing you told yourself to do, which was aim more.
Nathan Barnes: Yep, for sure. I had a I had another question that I would like to get your guys' opinion on. Sam and I discussed this a little bit one of the last times we practiced. It was an idea I had, and I think I got it from maybe Bob's podcast that he did, the World Shoot one. but essentially it's it is that you can only lose points, you can't actually really ever gain points. and I I think Sam displayed that well on a couple stages where like I think stage fourteen was the one with all the ports and Sam like you could tell he had no care in the world what his time was going to be. He was just going to go shoot the center of the target for every single shot. and he did that a couple times. I think that was also, you know, a bit of going into the last stage, having a 15-point lead. It's like, well I can't really gain anything and Brantley can't really gain anything to close the gap. So I just need to not lose a ton. but the idea that I kind of came up with based on my understanding of what Bob said was if you imagine everyone starting the match at a hundred percent instead of at zero, it makes more sense to me at least. Of I only lose points throughout the whole match. I don't ever make up points. Like I only have points to lose on a stage by shooting poorly. There's Not really a lot of points that I have to gain on a on a stage. And if i if it gets to the point where I need to gain points, it's like Brantley on on stage 18, Sam shoots a pretty good run. He's already was up 15 points. It's like, what do you do? You're not going to put a 10%, you know, run on Sam's last stage of the match and and win. It's highly unlikely.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, mean this is very clear in any match that has a field, and like a very deep field that's extremely tight. I mean, you you talked about it earlier with just the super squad and you looking at scores afterward, where p everyone's doing the things that you can do on the stage already. I mean there are outliers to that in the sense that like Jacob refusing to lose points on A stage and then in in turn kind of I don't know, is it taking points from the other I I mean in that sense like he he stole points on some stages. But so that's where I don't I don't know if I really wanna accept it right now, Nathan. But that's
Nathan Barnes: Well
Saul: I I know you don't want to accept it because
Nathan Barnes: so
Saul: the Good Shooting Fairy said the exact same thing, Nathan. The Good Shooting Fairy, when we accosted him, and I was like, Hey, Mr. Good Shooting Fairy, only I I used his real name. Come talk to us. This is Jay Beale. He's one of the best shooters in country. You should provide him free coaching while you wait for your guns to show up on this baggage carousel. and the Good Shooting Fairy said basically what you're saying. And
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Saul: then and walking away from it, I thought, too bad Jay's unwilling to accept that.
Nathan Barnes: Well, so for example though, to kind of rebuttal that, Jacob at that point is not really in contention to win. So for him to go make up points, that's fine. Like, but for the leaders, there is no really separating yourself. It's just avoiding like when I when I talked with Sam, like I think one of the things I said is like everyone's bleeding, it's just like trying to limit how much you're bleeding, like You you wanna keep the wounds mostly closed, you know, like you're you're gonna you're gonna lose some blood throughout the match, but you you don't wanna like have a have a big wound where you're just pouring blood out, you know.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah. No, I that's a that's a good point. Like Jacob Jacob was not playing the same game at that point. Different different game.
Nathan Barnes: And Adam on the last stage, Adam on la his last stage. So he goes out and crushes us.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Different game.
Nathan Barnes: He's not playing what Sam and Brantley are playing, you know, and he and he's not playing
Saul: He he's not playing win the match. He's playing let me just show what I could do sometimes, which is awesome, by the way. A sixteen percent
Nathan Barnes: And he he's also not
Saul: stage win, very cool.
Nathan Barnes: Amazing performance, but he's also not playing what our super squad was when we shot that stage cold our first stage of day three, you know.
Saul: So then the other if you wanted to refine on that and we'll try and sucker Jay in, and then we already know Sam shoots like this. but he could probably elaborate. But if we try and sucker Jay in, it's not that you're doing less than you can do, but the idea that you can't do more than you can do. And so you're you know, you're you're negotiating with your own hundred. And within your skill bracket, your hundred will win the closer you are to it, which is what the good shooting fairies. said. B it's essentially the good shooting fairy told told us that the in that skill band of people who are in legitimate contention to win, whoever like shoots closest to their match wins.
Sam: Yes. Yeah. So this always this happens.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, I mean that that feels a little bit better.
Sam: This happens frequently.
Nathan Barnes: Ha ha ha.
Sam: This happens frequently when when I listen to Saul talk, is I'll be thinking a thought in my head, and I'll be kind of still figuring out how I want to say it. And then Saul will say it. And I as soon as he says it, I instantly know that's exactly what I'm thinking, but he said it like five times as good as I was gonna say it. But like you you still you're
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, exactly.
Sam: you're 100%, like going back to what Nathan said, like you start the match with a hundred percent and then you just give away points here and there. You're one hundred percent. has to be really close to as good as everyone else's 100%. Like there's nothing like, and I think that's what you see, like, okay, so let's say, like, you take any of the stages on the match. If if I shot that stage 10 times, right, in practice and you took my best hit factor, there are probably 30 other people at the match who could shoot that stage 10 times. And put up just as good of a score as I did. So it's like you your your capacity or your like 100% for this to work, like this like bleed less, don't give away more points than the other guy, you have to start at a high enough like threshold for that. Like last year, like when I shot nationals, like my 100% was not good enough. Like I didn't bleed a lot la at last year's nationals. I think in terms of like mistakes as far as like makeups and and stuff go like that, like was I probably had like a a cleaner match last year than I did this year. But like I was like twenty seconds off the pace. So it's like my my one hundred percent that I was trying not to bleed out wasn't a true one hundred percent compared to
Nathan Barnes: Do you think that's mostly technical skills or approach like we said earlier? Like, do you think if you put Sam right now and Sam last year side by side, that if you asked them to do something the same way, that there would be like much of a difference between them? Like I'm not saying the way you would shoot last year, I'm saying your ability to do something. So like is Sam last year, if you asked him to shoot a stage this way and Sam this year, like do you think there's much technical gap between them? Or it's just Sam this year's more comfortable doing it that way.
Sam: that that's a good question. I think like just in terms of like raw shooting ability, I am better now than I was last year, but not by that much. I think I have
The Hit Factor Podcast: Not by
Sam: Mm.
The Hit Factor Podcast: twenty not by twenty something seconds.
Sam: No. yeah, not
Saul: 20 seconds sounds like a big number, but it's not a big number. It's it's one second a stage. And skill is not just the points on target, it's the time it takes you to acquire them. And so lots of little things add up to a second a stage. And approach, like the distinguishing between technical skill and approach, like I buy that. That makes logical sense, but I don't think it's it's always true because part of the skill is applying the approach, right? So Being conservative is not maintaining it's not bleeding less, it's bleeding time. Right. So like appropriate performance is as fast as possible with good enough hits, right? It's not appropriate performance isn't just scored penalties, right? I mean, if if you're
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Saul: donating a second and a half to your competitors every stage that you have access to because you're not willing to do something, then you're still bleeding. It just doesn't look as ugly when people add up the numbers. Sorry, I'm trying to tie a bow on this.
The Hit Factor Podcast: No, no, no. This is I this makes sense and which is why I'm thinking like maybe I mean I again, this is what I'm thinking for myself, but I don't know if it applies to to you guys in this way. Of my willingness now to do certain things is way higher. Potentially too willing, which is the problem that I wanted to have. Like I would I would rather right now fix this problem. and so it's just a matter of how long will it take for for you guys to drag me back into the appropriate level of willingness. Or the fairy. I how when will I listen to the to the shooting fairy? it's funny 'cause only like you, me and Kyle know who it is at this point, but it'll remain that way until the
Saul: a as shooting fairies go, it's it's up there, right? Like it would be like a your top
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Saul: five good shooting fairies you could think of. Like it wasn't
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah.
Saul: Jeremy Mitchelik, just in case anybody was wondering. It was not Jerry Mitchellik. Or Rob
The Hit Factor Podcast: No, no.
Saul: Latham or or some other old head.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, so I mean at least I'm I I know like I understand this and I do think willingness to do certain things is worth a ton of time and unwillingness to do certain things is things is also donating a ton of time. you're adding a lot of time. I mean I know from experience.
Saul: But like looking at Sam's which we talked about earlier, your your stage eighteen, like you did not lay up. That was not like your most conservative stage. You did what you did on the other stages, and you got a very similar result.
Sam: And I wasn't I I think like going back to like that in like increasing your like what your one hundred percent is like It's like shooting I I I think I said this a couple times. Like th this match was asking you to shoot in a way that was like counterintuitive to the way that I've been trying to shoot. like I've been trying to shoot like faster. Like that was the goal this year, is like go faster. Especially coming away from last year, and like, okay, you're 20 seconds too slow, you're losing a second every single stage, make it not that way anymore. And I think going like spending a lot of time with the speed being being the focus at the expense of the points, it felt it felt but also but having that like pay off, it felt wrong to then come into a match and start shooting it where it was like, okay, like you're going into each stage and you're like, okay, I'm only gonna try to shoot two or three Charlies on this stage. And then knowing that you Could have shot that stage a little bit faster, but like the the the hit factors were low enough where it wouldn't have been worth the extra one or two Charlies to save that third of a second that you could have saved. And but like that that pace, that two to three Charlie a stage pace, because of spending time focusing on the speed, like that controlled. controlled two to three Charlie pace was now fast enough to be to still be a good enough time to where you weren't handing away
Nathan Barnes: Yeah.
Sam: points via the time.
Nathan Barnes: You you said some stuff about like Jay, the willingness to do certain things. And sp like speaking for myself, when asking about like Sam last year versus Sam this year, technical skills, that sort of thing. I think technically I'm a little bit better shooter this year for sure. but like my last six months of training, really all it did and all it showed me was That if I'm willing to do the more risky stuff, I can nail it. Like so many times in my practice, I'd be like, okay, there's this scenario or whatever that I'm unsure of. And so I I wanna, you know, set it up and see how it goes for me. And I would nail it right away. So it's like the technical skill of being able to do it wasn't really an issue. It's just the unwillingness to do it. Last year, I'd say even six months ago. Stage one shooting that far target on the move, zero percent chance Nathan does it. Zero percent chance that I shoot that target on the move. I don't know what I would have done. I probably would have stopped in that front position, but I think even like six, eight months ago, I do not shoot that target on the move, no way. And the ability wasn't the issue. Cause like when I would go set something like that up, for example, as soon as I tell myself, okay, I'm gonna do this thing. It works out exactly as intended. It's just committing to doing the thing. So for me, like the the main thing was doing it a little bit in practice so that I understood that the result was going to be what it needed to be. And then now I just have the willingness on stage one at nationals with the super squad with guys that I'd heard their names before I even like really started shooting matches, right? Like I'm shooting alongside those guys with, you know, people who I know are really good at shooting. the match that matters the most of the year or whatever. It's like I'm absolutely shooting that target on the move and there's no question and I have no doubts that I'm gonna hit it. Right.
Saul: So were you walking stages with some I'm I don't wanna get anyone in trouble, but d with someone else who's on your squad and the day before the match started and Jay was talking about shooting that in the move and that person was like, What? You're not serious, right? That's not real, is it?
The Hit Factor Podcast: We can get him in trouble. Eric Shaw was doubting doubting that this was No no no he
Saul: No. It was not Eric Shaw. Eric Shaw would doubt that though.
The Hit Factor Podcast: yeah, s Christian was Christian definitely doubted like no way. I mean like many people, no way. And that and it's reasonable.
Nathan Barnes: The guy I most expected to shoot that target on the move when I told him I'm 100% shooting that target on the move the morning or the, you know, just before we started shooting. He's like, what? No, I'm not doing that. And I'm like, that's the most Jacob Hetherington target I've ever seen in my life. And you're telling me you're not gonna do it on the move? Like, straighten up, buddy. Like, figure it out. What what
Sam: Ha ha ha.
Saul: Yeah.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Uh-huh.
Nathan Barnes: are you talking about? I'm like, if any target has your
Sam: Right, but he did it. He did it.
Nathan Barnes: name on it, it's that one.
Saul: He could send five on it without like breaking his rundown.
Nathan Barnes: I told him I'm shooting on the move and he s he was like, What? That one? I don't know. I'm like, What's wrong with you, dude? Are you okay?
Saul: And you were a second shooter of the match?
Nathan Barnes: Yep, Justin Anderson, me, J Bill.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah. before we before we wrap this up, Sam, is there anything you need to say to the people? Do you need to address the people? As now you are their national champion. They all well our our
Nathan Barnes: My national champion.
Saul: Our national champion. We're that kind of commie.
Sam: Well, I had I had an opportunity to a address the people when I took the microphone from the from the dude after they called his name. And I've
Saul: And try to give it to Nathan.
The Hit Factor Podcast: good, right, yeah.
Sam: and I've said received a lot.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Alright, so in that case
Nathan Barnes: Sam, what did you say when you took the microphone?
Sam: I don't well it wasn't I d I don't know. It was very yeah. I was I received some feedback.
The Hit Factor Podcast: What what would you you were You were gonna give the microphone to Nathan and now Nathan, what would you have said if he actually did?
Sam: Yes, this is it's it's your moment.
Nathan Barnes: what would I have said if I would have went up there?
The Hit Factor Podcast: Yeah, if you if you went up there 'cause Sam didn't have anything to say and and then he would have given you the microphone, what you would you have said?
Nathan Barnes: He said well I I was having a great time at the banquet as I always do because it's the best part of the whole match. And I had made a joke and then Sam's like, I'm gonna yeah, I'll just di I'll just make you my delegate. You can give the speech, and I'm like, I don't know if you want to do that. Anyways, what I would have said is that our my national champion, Sam Matt, of carry optics, may have been A multi-time national champion, but he couldn't even get into race gun nationals. So I think that's personally a big issue. I don't think that would have went over well.
The Hit Factor Podcast: Hmm. Issue.
Saul: Well, I'm glad you didn't stop. I'm glad you didn't just stop him, Jay. I thought this was a long setup for him being DQ'd and ending the podcast, but then I think you got curious about what
Sam: I did too. I was expecting it any moment.
The Hit Factor Podcast: I
Saul: he would have said. I also think think, Nathan, of how your approach to this match would have been rewarded at last year's Race Gun Nationals. Which you shot.
Nathan Barnes: yeah, it would have went great. Well I shot con I shot Belt and I was kinda over it by that time of year.
Saul: I you shot belt, but I'm saying like but if you were shooting this style at that match last year with all of those close stacks and s like this this would have
Nathan Barnes: Yeah. Yes.
Saul: yeah.
The Hit Factor Podcast: I was pr
Nathan Barnes: I think
The Hit Factor Podcast: I was procrastinating sorry, Nathan, y you can actually say something. Sorry. Yeah. Go ahead. I won't DQ you. Promise. I wanna DQ Sam I wanna DQ Sam, so you d y
Nathan Barnes: Okay, okay, okay, I'll I'll pass it off. Sam, has the win set in yet? Like at what point did it set in, or has it even set in yet? Because I know like I've done things in past life, I've done things in the current life, where like you finally get to the thing, and then it doesn't really even happen in your own mind, or like it doesn't make sense that it has happened, or it's like Okay, what's next? Like has a win you won Cary Optics Nationals, you're the national champion. Like, has that set in for you?
Sam: I part partly, but not I don't think fully.
Nathan Barnes: Stop.
The Hit Factor Podcast: no, Nathan threw a flashbang. Ding! Unload! Stop! Unload, show clear.
Saul: My eyes, where do you even find this stuff? Where do you find this stuff? What corner of the internet?
Sam: Yeah,