FTV Regulated Parenting When You Feel Triggered with Sari Rose Barron, LMFT

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Hey, welcome to the Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast with your Post Natal expert Peter Lap.
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As always, would be me.
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This is a podcast for the 3rd of October 2026.
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After last week's short episode about GLP1s, this is from the Vault episode, an interview I did with Sari Rose Barron, who's a licensed therapist.
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We spoke about healing your own trauma to raise healthier children.
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This episode first came out in uh, what is it, May 2025 or something like that.
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And we're basically talking about you know what happens when your four-year-old tantrum suddenly has you respond exactly the way your father did, despite you promising yourself you'd never parent that way.
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You know, that that's the sort of thing we're talking about.
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So we're talking postpartum mental health, and that is feeding to parenting, but from a completely different perspective.
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I love this interview, I think uh Sri is absolutely wonderful.
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So without further ado, here we go.
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So you say postnatal health isn't just about mood, it's also it's uh it's about regulation.
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So what do you mean by that?
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Yeah, so listen, mood generally refers to emotional states, like um, there's so many different mood states, depression, anxiety, irritability.
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Regulation is really the ability to manage those states.
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It's like, you know, it's if you think about it, it's like riding the waves instead of getting pulled under.
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It's how we stay kind of in our window of tolerance.
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I don't know if you've heard that term before, but it's how we stay in that optimal zone when so much of parenting or, you know, whether, depending on whether you've just given birth through the stages of parenthood, we go in and out of that right that optimal zone all the time.
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So it's really about regulation, it's really about how we respond to our reactivity, to our emotions and mood.
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Right.
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Yeah, no, that that makes that makes complete sense.
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Because one of the tricky bits is um is taking the time to respond to the situation, not letting the situation get on top of you, I suppose, right?
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Yes.
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I mean, I think what's what's so tricky is when we get triggered, right?
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Yeah.
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Because when we get triggered, it's an automatic reflex that happens.
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It's usually not a choice.
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We usually don't want to like lose our shit, right?
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So it's it's really about that awareness of when we start to kind of escalate, or whether it's kind of getting agitated or anxious in a hyper-aroused state, or whether we actually dip into like a numbness, more dissociated state.
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It's really being aware of that and then finding the tools.
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There's so many tools we can use to get back into that more regulated state to figure out how do we want to respond to what just happened to us.
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And that can take, you know, that can take some time.
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The triggers are real, depending, and it could be so many different things depending on what you've gone through, right?
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We yeah, we bring our own blueprint into parenting.
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Our kids tend we project so much onto our kids.
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Our kids remind us of different developmental states that we went through, and usually it's unconsciously happening to us, those body memories that are coming up, right?
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Yeah, yeah, because it's it's something that I I personally as you get older, you know, it's it's and it's something guys my age and generation, I think, talk about a lot.
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But people guys in their 50s, basically white guys in their 50s, we all have our same sort of upbringing, I think, of uh that you know, we we started thinking that as long as we don't turn into our dad or a slight or a slight improvement of our dad, we're doing all right.
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And now we're kind of figuring out that well, maybe we can aim a little bit higher to put it.
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I mean, yeah, I think listen, we go through life doing the best we can, and our parents did the best they could, however, right?
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We are, I think, realizing, I think, especially as mental health stigma changes, conversations change around that, appreciation for like this blueprint that we're bringing into our own parenting from how we were raised.
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I think there's this, there's also, you know, this strong emphasis on being like, what does a perfect parent even mean?
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Right.
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And we strive to be the best parent we can.
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But I think this is important.
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This this relates to attachment.
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Being a perfect parent, we we think we're messing up if we're not being a perfect parent.
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But being a perfect parent, trying to be a perfect parent actually fosters anxious attachment, not secure attachment.
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Why?
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Because you're constantly striving for perfection.
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And that's really anxiety-provoking.
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We don't really want our kids to be perfectionists either, right?
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It's really those moments of inattunment where we do miss step, where we do mess up, as long as it's not in hopefully pervasive neglect land or abuse land, right?
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It's those moments of imperfection and us finding our way back to attunement.
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That's where repair lives.
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And that's like where security is built in the connection between parent and child.
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Yeah, because that's interesting because we have done a thing on attachment theory before, and it was an eye-opener for me, right?
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That that was really like the sort of light bulb ah moment.
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Yeah.
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Um, because I think a lot of people get caught up in that, like you said, that chasing perfection, especially, especially when it when the kids aren't born yet, to to stick to parenting, right?
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It's the beforehand.
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My child will not have an iPad, we don't do screen time, that that type of thing.
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Oh my god, all that goes out the window, right?
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Yeah, that goes straight out the window as soon as you, you know, bluey is amazing.
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Yeah, bluey is amazing, and survival mode is real, right?
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We don't appreciate actually the impact of being a new parent, the sleep deprivation, the the hormone changes, both for both for mom and dad, if they're if you're in a you know a heterosexual kind of marriage or whatever, but any marriage or no oh absolutely, yeah.
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And and and you know, everybody, you know, there's a band they used to listen to called Funder a long, long time ago, and that shows my age again, and and that's you know, it's the they have a whole song about this.
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Basically, if you're if you're in a fight with your spouse, the importance of not taking it out on the child or the cat and all that type of stuff.
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Do you know what I mean?
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Um, yeah, we call that displacement in the therapy world.
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Yeah, because that is quite often a huge thing.
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I find myself when I'm ticked off with Wendy, my wife of my lovely and and and wife of like 20 or almost 20 years.
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Um I mutter under my breath a lot, you know, and then walk through the kitchen, that sort of thing, like like one of those annoying flies that just flows through life.
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Um, but what I had to learn was to not take out any frustrations, and they're not big frustrations, just little frustrations, on anything else, right?
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What Billy Bird, uh the comedian Bill Burr said called the blowing up about little things, starting shouting for no reason, but even just having that energy of yeah, yeah, you know, the tightening of the jaws, so to speak.
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Because when you're striving for that perfection, like what you're talking about, all you're kind of doing is suppressing those things rather than dealing with them, right masking those things rather than dealing with them in the moment, and then being a healthy human being to be around again rather than this ball of negativity.
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Totally.
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I mean, I love that you're I actually, Peter, I really love that you're bringing up even what you're noticing in your body because there's so much, you know, usually when we get into arguments with our partners or our kids or anyone in our life, it's not really necessarily about the content.
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There's usually like an underlying need, there's an underlying thing, there's an underlying emotion and about and what we're really fighting about, right?
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It's not really you haven't taken out the garbage.
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It's really like maybe underneath that is I'm feeling really dismissed or I'm feeling really unsunheard.
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And now I'm angry, right?
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Now I'm feeling angry.
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Um, but so much of what our body cues us into, it tells us about our needs, what we're feeling.
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You know, you're kind of bringing up, you know, there's there's dynamics that come with just being with a partner day in and day out, and certainly parenting challenges and stressors and things and triggers.
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But there's also like if we have experienced things that it's actually triggering on from the past, what happens with let's say trauma is it gets encapsulated and stored in the brain.
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It kind of gets frozen in that developmental period in time.
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So when something is happening present day, it's lighting up a spot of the brain that kind of goes and lights it up back in that same period.
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So sometimes we're responding to, let's say, for you, Wendy, in your case, for me, Ben, my lovely husband, who gets the brunt of my reactivity, right?
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Like they sometimes, it's like my a certain self-state of mind is responding to something that's lit up rather than to something that's actually occurring in the here and now.
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And usually it's a mixture of both.
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Like there is something occurring in the here and now, but our reactivity is more intense because trauma is stored in so many different ways in our body.
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It's stored in our brain through images, through body sensations, through emotions, through beliefs about self.
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Like I am not enough, I am unworthy, I'm too much, I am alone, I can't trust all sorts of different things.
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Yeah, because that that is that is bang on, because that's kind of what I missed out on on going to when I said earlier about the way we were raised.
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As in we raised a certain way, and we find ourselves turning into our parents, or at least like all of a sudden, some a child or your spouse or whoever's or colleague says something, and then just before you know it, your dad comes out.
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Do you know?
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And it's never the nice part of your dad that comes out in those moments.
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No, I'm I'm glad you're bringing that up too, because it's very common.
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So let's say you had a father or a mother or whoever that was very explosive, and you've said, I will never be that way with my child.
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And then guess what?
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Your kid does that like they're in a tantrum, or your teen shuts the door on you, and all of a sudden you find yourself in this explosive moment, and you're like, Oh my, oh shit, I'm just like my parents.
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I thought I would never become that.
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So part of that, what's happening, is we start to internalize parts of our parents.
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We internalize our attachment figures.
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So let's say we had an explosive parent or a very critical parent, oftentimes we will internalize a part of them as our own kind of like explosive parent in us to kind of whip ourselves into shape so that if we can do that, we can stay on track so we don't have to experience it from our parent.
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And so in that moment when our child is triggering us, or our spouse, let's say, is triggering us, when we get triggered and we find that reactivity, we've internalized that a piece of that.
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But I think what's helpful sometimes is to ground ourselves and differentiate what makes me, for in your case, for you, Peter, different than your dad.
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What makes you different in that moment from your dad?
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My guess is that as you start to have an awareness, you can lean into repair in maybe different ways than dad did, or take ownership and reflection over what's kind of different.
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I mean, the longer term healing is probably more kind of inner child trauma work, maybe EMDR, IFS, internal family systems, somatic work, different ways to actually help reprocess the way you've stored so many different experiences in your life.
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But the step, the first step is even just starting to become aware of this triggers me.
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Oh gosh, I just kind of escalated.
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I'm not proud of that.
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How do I now lean into connection, find our way into repair, um, communicate actually what the need was underneath our explosivity, what the feeling was underneath that, is we don't want to drop that either.
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It's coming from a very important place.
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We just are learning how to self-regulate a little bit more.
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Yeah, there's a there's a there's a lot in there in what you said.
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Um, because there's a I personally fairly stronger believe these days, and again, this is a generational thing, and I think lots of younger people do it.
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Americans definitely do it more than Brits, and that is going to therapy, right?
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Um British people, and um I live in the UK, I've done it for a long time, but even in Holland, I don't, and nobody in Europe goes to see a therapist, right?
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Unless unless there's something really, really bad that happened, or they're much more self-aware, at least my generation, right?
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You don't you don't you internalize everything and you just live with it and hope, like I said earlier, that you're a slightly better version of your dad, and that throughout the hundreds of years that is to follow, that therefore your family lineage doesn't get too messed up, and there's a healthy human being at the end of a millennia or something like that.
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But it's it's the working on yourself, I suppose, should read with regards to that type of stuff, because recognizing your triggers and all and and dealing with that childhood trauma, so to speak.
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That's it's probably a good idea to start that either before you fall pregnant, and this is not aimed at the women, by the way.
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But you gotta say, before you fall pregnant, I include the the husband in the falling pregnant thing, even though I absolutely hate that description.
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Um that's probably the best time to start this, if not earlier, right?
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Rather than listen, I think that in a perfect I'm a therapist, so I am biased, right?
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And I am also an American therapist, so you take that for what you will.
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Um, but listen, in a perfect world, we'd all be self-realized and have all of it together prior to becoming parents.
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And if you're able to kind of do some of that deeper work and deeper healing prior to becoming a parent, great.
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But the reality is, and this is what I've seen in so many of my clients, whether they have big traumas or little traumas, I will say, that um there's there's only so much there.
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You can do the best.
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You might, you might kind of do therapy and be like, all right, ready to be a parent.
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And then you have a child, and it starts to uncover maybe deeper things that weren't touched on.
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Or you start to get triggered in ways that you thought were kind of like cleaned up, you've gone to therapy about it, and now you feel so much shame.
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So I think shifting actually the belief that okay, if I don't go to therapy before I have a baby, then I'm screwing my kid up.
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Versus, you know what?
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It's growth, self-growth is like a journey.
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And our kids, it is inevitable.
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They're going to hit our buttons.
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There are going to be triggers, and that is a normal part of parenting.
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That's a normal part of actually finding our way to secure attachments.
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Um, but I do think that, you know, it's interesting you bring up, you know, don't going to not not wanting to go to therapy unless you have one of these like big T traumas.
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That's that's actually part of the reason I created a course for this specifically, helping parents look at what is getting triggered to hopefully create more access for people that don't want to go to therapy and don't necessarily feel the need to do some of this like long-term therapy.
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Yeah.
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If sometimes that's enough for you to have the awareness, it starts to bring meaningful shifts.
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It's really when it starts to keep coming up, keep coming up, keep coming up, and you feel at a loss and you feel like you're failing.
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And it's like, oh, why can't I just prevent all of these triggers from happening?
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I'm becoming a version of myself that I said I was never going to become.
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I mean, that's where maybe, you know, taking a course like mine or going to therapy, that's where it kind of really illuminates.
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Like, I'm feeling stuck.
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And you're not supposed to know how to work through it because when you're in a trigger, you're hijacked.
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Yeah.
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And you sometimes need help allowing that to move through you, right?
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We want to help to refile in a way where the trauma is stored in the body.
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We want to meet the needs that we weren't given then so that real kind of we not we're not needing to meet them in that moment through our kids, through our spouse.
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Yeah, no, that's that's a good point.
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Because I never indeed, obviously, perfection isn't isn't achievable.
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And and like you said, everybody's gonna have triggers, right?
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Everybody's gonna have things that kind of set you off.
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And I suppose it is dealing with those things that learning to deal with that stuff and work through it.
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That is uh Yeah, and you're not there's nothing wrong with you because you're getting triggered, of course, right?
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I I like to think of it like it's like going to a doctor and they do the like me, you can't see me, but I'm like slapping screen right now, and you know, my knees going up, my legs ticking up.
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It's a reflex, yeah, right.
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And it is inevitable.
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I don't know one parent, and usually I'm not living in all or nothing land as a therapist, but I truly I do not know one parent that can say they haven't been triggered at some point with their kid.
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And triggered could look like agitated, sleep deprived, and let's say they're stressed and they take it out on their kid or they take it out on their spouse or partner, like it's inevitable it is going to happen because life is stressful, external circumstances are stressful, internal circumstances of what we're getting triggered is stressful.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Something is bound to happen, and I suppose then is the differences now between I think the younger generation to bring it back to me being old.
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Um the the young younger generations, they apologize to their kids now.
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That is something I don't know anyone with parents, anyone of my generation with parents whose parents said, Oh dude, I shouldn't have done that.
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That's all that doesn't matter.
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And what it and and Peter, I'm curious.
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I don't know if you want to get too personal, but what a gift that would have been.
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Like if you are it would have been a game changer because it allows you to to learn that you uh you can say sorry for messing up.
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Saying I'm sorry, taking ownership doesn't mean you're abandoning self and your needs in the class, right?
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It's taking ownership of saying, I did something that impacted you and I'm sorry.
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And here's what I here's how I wish I would have communicated it.
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Right?
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Yes, exactly.
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It's it's not letting go of the ultimate need or point of view, right?
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Like especially in parenting, we want to set boundaries with our kids.
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We don't want them to walk around in the world thinking that they like the world is boundaryless.
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That's how we exist, right?
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Um, in our jobs, and we want to set them up to success.
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So it's not that we want to self-sabotage or self-abandon, it's just that we're taking ownership of our reactivity, saying, I did something that impacted you, and I'm so sorry.
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But I mean, that would have been a great gift for me too.
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Instead of me then saying, Oh my God, I'm bad, I've done something wrong, I I need to kind of shrink myself.
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My needs are not important.
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And I learned kind of how to shove my needs away because I felt like they were never going to be met, you know.
00:20:43.519 --> 00:21:03.119
Yeah, and I think that goes for a lot of, like I said, a lot of at least the at least the guys I know in my generation, and I think a lot of the women as well that I've worked with, they they have that same experience with where realizing that you can make an apology to a child, right?
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:08.079
Because there was a like I said, some the under 40s are I I think they're different.
00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:16.400
Uh as in they've they've they have that awareness that you can do that without affecting the power dynamic.
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:37.519
Air quotes here, by the way, about power dynamic, because you know, a lot of them, and I'll get emails, but I'll I'll just say a lot of people, people my age, we still kind of believe, especially with teenagers, so uh we still believe in this in this power dynamic.
00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:38.400
I am your dad.
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:45.680
I also kind of want to be your friend, but uh I'm so I I need you to think I'm cool because I'm your dad, even though I'm 50 and I'm not cool anymore.
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:49.119
And if you're a teenager, I'm definitely not cool anymore.
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:59.200
But I need you to think I'm cool, then have all the knowledge, but I also need you to respect me as as the authority figure in the relationship, and that then means that.
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:13.519
Because I said so, is is a is a valid listen, you're touching on a topic that's hot, which is like raising teens, right?
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:30.799
So, yes, you're it's in this constant power dynamic, power struggle of how do I still create containment and safety and security because I'm still the parent and they're still living under my house and there's still the boundaries, and I still need to like teach them so much about the world, right?
00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:39.440
And keep them safe emotionally, physically, but also developmentally, teens are at this place of individuation and autonomy.
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:41.759
So you're like floating that balance.
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:42.559
And guess what?
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:45.519
That's gonna be real tricky in the power dynamic.
00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:49.119
It is like a recipe for power struggles.
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:52.559
It is like putting fuel in a fire.
00:22:52.559 --> 00:23:00.480
And so there are actually there are so many ways that you can navigate those power dynamics.
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:16.160
Because I think the biggest piece, if I could give any parents like a takeaway in any really stage of parenting, but particularly through teens, is how do we get through this rocky period with a feeling of I'm still feeling connected?
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:28.079
Because ultimately we're wanting our kids, regardless of how they feel about like us being the authority or the, you know, the one who they still have to listen to and have all sorts of feelings about it.
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:34.640
But how do we do that in a way that still allows them to have space to feel angry, to feel disappointed?
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:35.759
What are we working on there?
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:52.240
We're working on their distress tolerance, disappointment tolerance, and still feel connected, where they feel like if they're freaking out, if they're having big feelings, you're still a safe person emotionally for them to come to, regardless of you're pissing me off right now.
00:23:52.240 --> 00:24:06.640
You know, like I'm angry and I'm feeling, and really it's coming probably for a parent out of a place of feeling very helpless and powerless because they're acting out in a way that honestly, for the most part, is developmentally appropriate to them.
00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:09.119
They're they're they're pushing boundaries.
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:12.400
That's they're good, good job, mom and dad.
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:17.680
You've raised them in a way to be developmentally appropriate, but like what the fuck are we gonna do about it now?
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:21.119
You know, like yeah, that's very true.
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:28.720
Because that that is what you'll have a lot of conversations with with people, a lot of my clients, and they're like that, they have kids and they're in their teens.
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:53.920
And but these, I mean, any it starts at 12, started at 12 for them, and then now it's like 17, and the boy is 14, and the girl is 17, and it's just having having them stay in and communicating with because uh with the parents, that seems to be the the the key bit.
00:24:53.920 --> 00:25:01.519
As in, yes, okay, you have you have boundaries, you're gonna have fallings out, they're gonna be a pain in the ass, you're gonna be a pain in the ass to them as well.
00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:07.359
But as long as they can still feel like they can come back to you, you're kind of already ahead of the game.
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:08.079
That's right.
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:15.519
That's honestly, I mean, I don't need to plug anything, but that is exactly what my gross says it's literally raising your team without losing your mind.
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:17.839
And it is, it is that's what it's called.
00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:20.799
It's literally that is the substance of it.
00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:33.680
It's of course, it's the strategies of how to deal with like social media and boundaries and curfews and all of that like hard individuation stuff, but it's how to stay connected through that.
00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:38.160
It's how to get you out of that kind of power struggle, power dynamic.
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:55.279
Part of that is actually by realizing what's coming up in you, what's getting triggered in you, whether that's deep-seated childhood stuff, attachment stuff, or maybe just like how you're handling everyday stressors and how that's playing out in your dynamic.
00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:58.240
Because the regulation actually starts with you.
00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:05.680
Like the teens, your kids, toddlers, teens, everywhere in between, they're supposed to be getting dysregulated.
00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:08.480
And this is their time to learn self-regulation.
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:19.119
But if we are dysregulated, there's no way that they're going to start to co-regulate with us, which really co-regulation is like I'm lending my calm to them, right?
00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:19.359
Okay.
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:20.960
I'm lending my regulation.
00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:36.480
And if I am up here losing out of my mind and shut down and slamming the door back at them, or maybe it's the opposite, like I'm maybe I have attachment stuff, I'm feeling so rejected in this moment because my kid said that they hate me.
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:42.000
Like now I'm flooded with my own stuff and I'm actually getting disconnected and dysregulated.
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:49.440
It's really about how do we find our own way to grounding so that then our kids can find their way to feeling their feet on the ground too.
00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:54.079
Yeah, that is a that is a really good point.
00:26:54.079 --> 00:27:02.000
Because um the I think we all accept that children are their own little people, right?
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:05.359
And and everybody accepts, I hope everybody accepts it.
00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:16.079
Um, and I hope everybody accepts that your main job as an adult and as a parent is to raise as healthy a child and as rounded a human being as you can, and you send them off in the world.
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:19.839
That's pretty much right, that that is the gold standard.
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:23.759
As best you can as rounded a person as you can.
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:37.920
But we quite often, I think, forget in in the moment where the where there is conflict that there is still that parenting job to be done.
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:40.079
Do you know what I mean?
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:58.160
It it is not just a power dynamic, but if I and to be fair, I don't fall out with anybody anymore these days, but it it's if I had a falling out with a friend, we are friends and we don't talk to each other for a week, and it's then I'm an asshole, yeah, I'm an asshole, and we make up, right?
00:27:58.160 --> 00:28:16.880
That is but for a lot of for a lot of parents, there is and this sounds maybe a bit dumb and maybe even a bit preachy, but it's like you said, your job is to still parent the child.
00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:20.480
There is supposed to be a moment of growth coming from that conflict.
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:22.160
Totally world.
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:32.720
Yeah, listen, in an ideal world, our needs would be simpatico and we would be holding hands, skipping into the grass fields, right?
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:35.839
Like our needs just coalign, and it's just not the case.
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:38.720
Like it's it, and actually, we don't want it to be the case.
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:41.200
We want them to have their own sense of self, right?
00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:51.680
Um, but it in a way, I think I think this is an important um aspect to what I think you're saying, Peter, and and let me know if I'm off target.
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:54.319
Where does the actual learning come in?
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:56.720
If there's dysregulation, right?
00:28:56.720 --> 00:29:03.440
If if your child is dysregulated and you are dysregulated, that is actually not where growth and learning happens.
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.279
Growth and learning happens when both are regulated.
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:15.839
That's when like those teaching moments are really more, I mean, you are going to get much more bang for your buck finding those moments.
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:28.319
But the hard part, and I think the hard part, it's a little bit of a mind shift in parents, is is like, it's not just, I need to make sure my kids are behaving.
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:30.880
It's really, how am I behaving?
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:41.920
Because if I'm just authoritarian, do I want my kids to be growing up in just a fear-based, they're only complying because it's it's fear-based?
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:42.720
No.
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:56.319
But we're wanting them to feel like they're autonomous, they're making the decisions for themselves, but that comes from us being able to be the container and security for them.
00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:04.160
And it comes from us doing our own self-reflection of am I just am I what am I modeling for them?
00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:07.599
If I'm I just recently, I have two kids.
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:11.920
My youngest, I you know, I got dysregulated and I yelled at him.
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:15.200
Ah, I know I'm a therapist, but I'm a human, right?
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:16.640
I have my own sets of triggers.
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:22.480
So I yelled at my kid and I and he yelled back and I said, You can be angry, but you cannot yell at me.
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:23.839
And you know what he said back to me?
00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:28.319
Joshua said back to me, Mom, you yell at me, so why can't I yell at you?
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:29.680
And you know what?
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:30.720
He was right.
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:32.880
Like in that moment, he was right.
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:39.759
Like, how can I expect my kid not to yell at me if my go-to is also yelling?
00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:40.400
Of course.
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:43.359
That doesn't mean I don't teach him the behavior.
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:51.759
But if we're both in the rafters and agitated and in a hyper aroused state, we're not in our window of tolerance, we're not in this optimal zone.
00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:57.759
He's not gonna, he's not gonna be able to trust me that I'm I'm saying, yell can't yell at me.
00:30:57.759 --> 00:30:59.519
He's like, why not?
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:02.799
You know, we're both in this like very agitated state.
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:08.240
We both have to take a moment, calm down, and then we can, hey, it sounded like you were really angry.
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:09.759
I need to work on yelling.
00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:11.440
I also want you to work on yelling.
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:13.039
Or what's something you can work on?
00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:15.839
I'm gonna work on communicating my anger differently.
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:17.279
What's something you can work on?
00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:19.440
That's where the teaching moments happen.
00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:20.240
Yeah, of course.
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:24.720
Yeah, when you're in in the red optimal zone.
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:25.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:33.920
In the optimal zone, I I I I relate an awful lot of this stuff just because I get emails, and you know, listening interaction is a powerful thing.
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:36.240
So I compare raising kids a lot to dogs, right?
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:54.079
Um, I love so I love to bring the César Milan type comparison in, you know, that that whole when they're in that red state, when they're barking, when they're snarling, get them out of the state first, and then include yourself, right?
00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:54.640
That's right.
00:31:54.640 --> 00:32:00.960
And like I said, I bring this up for a reason because it annoys one or two people.
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:10.240
Uh, it is it is if if the postman comes to my door, and like and like said before the recording, I've got three dogs.
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:12.400
Everybody listening to this knows I've got three dogs.
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:19.920
When the postman comes to the door and he knocks on the door, and my dogs start barking, that's kind of what their job is to let me know there's someone near the door, right?
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:23.279
So, first of all, they're doing what they're meant to be doing.
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:25.359
So I can't get upset about that.
00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:29.119
It's like you said, with teenagers, they're meant to find their own way, right?
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:37.200
If I then shout at them to shut up, all they're doing is thinking, hey, he's barking with us, right?
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:47.519
That guy at the door, we're shouting for a reason now, or they're thinking this is completely acceptable behavior, or even worse, we need to be scared of this guy.
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:52.799
And to bring that back to parenting, this is again generational.
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:55.359
It's a great parallel, it's a great metaphor.
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:59.440
Oh, I I find it genuine, it genuinely all this stuff works.
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:11.680
I didn't understand all this stuff until I started to think, really think about what you're portraying, and then looking at at loads of uh loads of things.
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:20.799
Is most of the time, the way I was raised, for sure, the the shouting meant you'd better be scared, right?
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:25.440
It's the it's the old wait till your father comes home, sort of thing.
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:28.079
As in, I am misbehaving, no doubt.
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:32.160
I'm a child, I'm misbehaving, I do stuff I'm not really supposed to do.
00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:40.079
Mother loses her mind a little bit, or at least it's kind of struggling, and then it becomes a just wait until your father comes home.
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:43.119
Not that my dad did anything, but he was the person to fear.
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:46.880
But that, so I'm glad you're bringing and I mean, thank you for being so honest.
00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:55.359
Like that that brings up a really good example, Peter, of like when when there's such a fear, oh God, what's dad gonna do?
00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:58.480
And I've known him to escalate, I've known him to explode.
00:33:58.480 --> 00:34:04.799
Your child, you probably went into a into a trauma response, a fight, flight, or freeze, right?
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:06.799
Where it's like that's what you've got, right?
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:13.119
Yeah, yeah, that because trauma responses are there for survival, it's there to keep you safe in that moment.
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:16.480
So I'm going to keep myself in check here.
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:19.199
Now we're starting to internalize our own self-critic, right?
00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:23.840
Our own, it's like, behave, behave, Peter, behave, be hey, behave.
00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:25.039
You know, don't say anything.
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:26.800
Don't keep your rosh it, keep your rosh.
00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:28.639
You don't want to hear your dad's wrath.
00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:35.039
And it helped you kind of like not get hurt, whether it was verbally or physically or right.
00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:44.800
And so, but what's happening in your nervous system, in a child's nervous system, is it's going into a state of fight, flight, or freeze.
00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:47.119
And freeze is a more dissociative state.
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:51.360
Um, I don't know if if anyone's ever described like the animal metaphor.
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:57.039
I know you were talking about dogs, but if you imagine like an animal in a cave, okay.
00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:04.960
So let's say there's a, I don't know, like a cute little bunny in a cave, and then there's a lion that's coming.
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:06.639
There's a predator, right?
00:35:06.639 --> 00:35:11.360
Trauma responses are are based off of like studying animals too.
00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:19.199
So when it feels like it's going to be attacked, sometimes if it feels like it's a big enough animal, it will try to fight back to survive.
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:24.000
When it feels like it's not going to win, it will try to escape, right?
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:25.199
It will try to flee.
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:27.119
That's the fight or that's the flight.
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:33.519
Now, if it feels like it's trapped, now we're in a cave, if it feels like it's it's trapped, there's nowhere to go.
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:40.079
It freezes to try to be invisible, to try to to make the the animal think, I'm not gonna attack you.
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:43.519
I'm not, I'm not gonna go away, I'm gonna comply, right?
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:51.119
And sometimes it even starts to feign death, which is another trauma response, which is a much more dissociative state, right?
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:53.840
So we're really, which is more like people pleasing.
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:55.760
Like now I'm or fawning.
00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:57.920
Now there's another state, people pleasing.
00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:02.800
I'm now gonna like do what the predator wants to make sure that it feels okay, right?
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:08.400
So maybe with parenting, it's like I'm gonna now comply with mom or dad.
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:10.320
I'm gonna make them feel so good.
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:14.159
I'm gonna listen, I'm gonna have their needs, I'm gonna do whatever.
00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:20.480
I'm self-abandoning, I'm putting my own anger, my own fear aside to make it seem like I'm okay.
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:22.880
We're in a trauma response there.
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:28.880
And that's not where secure connection and attachment lives, right?
00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:31.039
Sure, yeah, no, absolutely.
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:37.280
So, how can you then to bring this all back to because I think this is great stuff.
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:40.480
You also just described the state of the GOP in America, by the way.
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:43.280
They're all drummers scared of Trump just doing whatever.
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:46.719
Let me, I mean, let's just, you know, political, my goodness.
00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:50.159
Yeah, we are we are really winning in America.
00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:52.000
Yeah, winning hard, going.
00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:55.519
Yeah, we are it is it is a special state right now.
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:57.039
It is.
00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:01.599
Um, bringing this all back to to to the thing, because this is the fascinating.
00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:20.079
So when you are when you're aware that this is what you do, as in you move into that, I don't know, yelling brings out a certain response in you, and and you know, a person yelling and now speaking, how how do you how do you learn to move past that?
00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:25.519
Because like like I said before started recording, I wanted to talk a little bit about EMDR and all that sort of stuff.
00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:32.320
How does that sort of thing, how do those techniques actually help people with that?
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:38.880
And how can they then take that forward into their yeah, into their parenting or other relationships?
00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:40.400
Yeah, absolutely.
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:47.840
Um, so again, going back to this idea of how is trauma stored in the nervous system.
00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:55.039
So sometimes just talk therapy can be great, sometimes solution-focused therapy, shorter term therapy can be great.
00:37:55.039 --> 00:38:02.480
But when there is something that has impacted the nervous system, now trauma is not necessarily the bad thing that happened.
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:07.280
It's actually what happened after that then fixes it into the system.
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:08.559
How is it processed?
00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:23.519
If it never got processed, it's probably stored in your nervous system in places that that talk therapy that's just accessing that like front, I don't want to get too science-y, but that's accessing like prefrontal corpus cortex, right?
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:27.440
That's just accessing that like cognitive part of the brain.
00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:31.440
If you're able to talk about it, you're accessing it from this prefrontal cortex.
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:39.920
But trauma and impact lives in a sensory-based part of the brain, which you can't see my hand, but it's this reptilian part of the brain.
00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:46.159
It's this like under part that goes into the somatic, your spine and the body.
00:38:46.159 --> 00:38:46.639
Okay.
00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:50.960
So sometimes talk therapy doesn't hit the mark.
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:53.119
Sometimes reframes just don't hit the mark.
00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:56.320
It's like I can tell myself, like, I'm actually safe right now.
00:38:56.320 --> 00:38:59.360
He's not my brother, he's not my mother, right?
00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:01.760
But the system doesn't internalize it.
00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:02.880
It just doesn't believe that.
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:05.039
I'm in a trauma response.
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:09.679
So that's where there's so many different trauma modalities that can help with that.
00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:15.679
But one in particular is EMDR, which stands for eye movement desensitization reprocessing.
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:27.119
And what that uses is it's a it's helping re file where trauma is stored in the brain and in the nervous system.
00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:39.119
It's finding a new spot where it helps the system go from what feels so present in a PTSD response, it's taking a trigger and it feels as if it's happening now in the system.
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:44.559
Even if we're not sure if we can make sense out of it, we just know our system is hijacked and we're in a trauma response.
00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:49.599
It's helping differentiate something that's present from past.
00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:53.280
And it does that using bilateral stimulation.
00:39:53.280 --> 00:40:06.880
So, in its most original form, Francine Shapiro, she found that eye movements going back and forth accessed both the right and left hemisphere of the brain.
00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:17.360
And why that's helpful is when there's trauma, I like to think of it as like we have these electrical currents that are kind of like frayed at the end.
00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:19.760
When there's trauma, they're like frayed at the end.
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:32.960
And we're wanting to access both right and left brain hemisphere to create new pathways of connection and communication in the brain that help the brain realize oh, that's past.
00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:35.519
It's not present.
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:40.639
And we do that through this in again, its most original form is eye movements.
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:44.719
But now we've known that it can happen from tapping one side of the body to the other.
00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:45.199
Very good.
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:54.000
It can be through auditory, um, bilateral stimulation with sound, one ear, the other ear, one ear, the other ear.
00:40:54.000 --> 00:41:03.119
So there's all sorts of ways that we can start to bilaterally stimulate the body that's going to access where trauma is stored.
00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:13.199
There's also brain spotting, which is like a sister modality to EMDR, which I also do, which kind of focuses on where our eye movements go.
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:26.960
So it's similar to EMDR, and we lock into a trauma neural network that allows kind of this access to how things have been stored somatically in the system in a very similar way that EMDR does.
00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:33.599
And it's done with therapy, and actually it's much quicker than top therapy.
00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:42.480
And I'll even say from my own personal experience, years of talk therapy, going through my own stuff, you know, that I carry with me and now into parenting.
00:41:42.480 --> 00:42:01.840
Um, when I started to do my own work with a therapist and heavy into trauma reprocessing with EMDR in particular, there was stuff that was coming up that I was like, oh my God, like so far back in my unconscious that I don't think years of talk therapy would have been able to access.
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:04.159
And it shifts body sensations.
00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:08.880
If there aren't words to explain how we feel, the body remembers, right?
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:11.199
A lot of people have pre-verbal trauma.
00:42:11.199 --> 00:42:13.840
Even if you think about babies, right?
00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:18.480
Let's say it wasn't even like a big T trauma that we think about.
00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:22.239
But if there's enough neglect, let's say you had a parent who just never picked you up.
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:27.760
You cried, you cried, you cried, you cried, and the baby eventually stopped crying because no one came to pick them up.
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:28.639
And they eventually, right?
00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:35.840
They tired themselves out, they were all what that might be stored in the system.
00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:41.199
And you can't, you have no conscious adult memory of that, of when you were in a crib.
00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:58.880
You just know there's a pervasive longing in you, and EMDR and other kinds of trauma modalities can start to access those self-states, those little children in us that don't have the words sometimes to process the experience.
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:09.440
And that's that's a good example because I just spoke to someone a little while ago about you know cry therapy, that not as in that what they do for what they used to do for kids.
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:12.079
I just let them cry themselves asleep and not too.
00:43:12.079 --> 00:43:13.679
Just ignore them, they'll be fine.
00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:16.000
You fed them diapers clean, they'll be fine.
00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:18.000
Yeah, we don't do that stuff anymore, right?
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:18.559
I hope.
00:43:18.559 --> 00:43:19.280
Anybody listening?
00:43:19.599 --> 00:43:20.800
Yeah, I mean, it's tricky, right?
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:23.360
There's all sorts of schools of thought still today.
00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:24.800
I'm like, cry it out.
00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:32.079
Um for me, I mean, listen, if you're like attachment parenting and da-da-da-da-da, you're probably not gonna necessarily let your child cry out.
00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:40.239
But there is truth to be said for allowing enough dysregulation for them to learn self-regulation.
00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:40.800
Sure.
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:45.199
For and then for them to feel your comfort so that they can again corregulate.
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:48.480
So you're not necessarily wanting to rescue them all the time.
00:43:48.639 --> 00:43:48.800
No.
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:56.079
But if there is pervasive neglect, that's when their system starts to learn, I'm not gonna get my needs met.
00:43:56.079 --> 00:44:01.679
And maybe that translates into I'm too much, or I'm too little, or I'm I'm not allowed to exist or right.
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:04.960
All those negative beliefs that start to form through traumatic experience.
00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:09.920
But let's say, listen, we can't always pick our kid up, or let's say we're dysregulated.
00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:11.440
We're gonna yell at them.
00:44:11.440 --> 00:44:15.039
We need to put them down so that we can calm down and then go pick them up.
00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:28.239
That's it's not necessarily a quote unquote air quotes bad thing for them to cry a little bit and be dysregulated as long as they feel parents are coming back.
00:44:28.239 --> 00:44:33.760
Parents are in the same way, fast forward time to teen parenting, right?
00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:37.360
Where now they need they're saying, leave me alone.
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:38.559
I don't want to talk to you.
00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:40.320
It's like, oh, what do we do with that?
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:41.039
What do we do with that?
00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:41.760
Should we just let them be?
00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:44.639
And now as a parent, I'm dysregulated.
00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:45.679
I just want to make it better.
00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:48.480
Maybe in my own serene, anxious attachment.
00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:51.679
I'm like, I want to make sure they're okay.
00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:54.639
Because that's what I needed as a child, right?
00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:57.119
Someone to come check on me and say, Hey, are you okay?
00:44:57.119 --> 00:44:57.760
How's that?
00:44:57.760 --> 00:44:58.639
I'm so sorry.
00:44:58.639 --> 00:44:59.840
How did that impact you?
00:44:59.840 --> 00:45:00.320
Right.
00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:12.559
But so okay, so I'm like, all right, I'm gonna ground myself, I'm gonna give my child some space, but I'm gonna let them know when you're ready, I'm here to talk so that they're not feeling alone or abandoned in that.
00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:19.519
And then maybe I check in, and if they're like, I'm not ready or back off, you know, it's like, okay, I just wanted to check.
00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:20.559
I'm here when you're ready.
00:45:20.559 --> 00:45:21.840
I hear you, you need space.
00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:37.039
Yeah, we're obviously we're always talking about finding that finding that middle middle ground, so to speak, where you can just like you don't have to take it to extremes, like you said, when you ignore your child altogether, although we've we've seen that happen.
00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:39.440
Yeah, I mean it's so every single night.
00:45:39.519 --> 00:45:41.440
It's uh there's so many nuances, right?
00:45:41.440 --> 00:45:51.519
Like that's those are just examples, but certainly if your child is self-harming or if they have deep depression, or those are things that need to be, you know.
00:45:51.519 --> 00:46:00.719
But we're talking about like mood dysregulation, ebbs and flows, mood swings that are very typical for teenage behavior or toddler behavior.
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:03.599
Those are toddlers, they just have more words, yeah.
00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:05.840
You know, fundamentally, yes.
00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:09.199
So, and if you want to be popular with your teenager, tell them now.
00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:13.599
Um no, no, don't call them that use that as their definition from now.
00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:15.039
Yes, exactly.
00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:16.800
Parents, listen to me.
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:18.239
That will really help your relationship.
00:46:18.559 --> 00:46:20.320
Yeah, you're just a toddler with a vocabulary.
00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:22.159
That's all that's right, don't say that.
00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:24.480
That's that's disconnection, not connection, parents.
00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:25.760
Who's ever listening?
00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:28.079
To be fair, it is funny.
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:31.840
Um, and sometimes that's all that's all we've got.
00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:41.280
Um yeah, so um people like to do so when we're talking about all these different modalities and all that sort of stuff.
00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:57.519
Uh, I think uh should your uh therapist and most therapists will be working with different modalities and where this, but I know um, I think people Google a lot these days, right?
00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:05.679
So I can almost imagine someone listening to this and saying, Oh, uh, I have stuff to sort out, I need to do stuff.
00:47:05.679 --> 00:47:07.199
This EDMR sounds amazing.
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:10.400
I will now Google therapists and do EDMR in my area.
00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:15.920
That is yeah, because that is what that is what people do these days.
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:31.280
People don't just search for therapists in the area, they think this jackass on the podcast said something that sounds like a good idea, and I'm going to, you know, Pete knows I've listened to a few episodes of Pete, he kind of knows what he's talking about with this stuff.
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:46.239
This personally, I always think you know, your expert, in this case, you should decide uh what will probably work best for you rather than the other way around, right?
00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:52.000
Yeah, I mean, listen, I I am a trauma-informed therapist.
00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:59.599
And so I truly like you're really looking at fundamentally where you believe the power of change lives, right?
00:47:59.599 --> 00:48:15.360
And so if you're talking to a CBT cognitive behavioral therapist or solution-focused therapist, they really believe that the power changes from reframes in the present, you know, and and probably if you're oh my gosh, if you're a CBT therapist out there listening, there's much, a much better explanation.
00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:16.559
I am not an expert in that.
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:27.840
However, I I am a trauma-informed therapist, and I believe that we the past does influence present, and it comes up a lot, especially in parenting.
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:38.000
And so whatever you're seeking out, I think it would be helpful to see whether there's a therapist that has what lens they work from.
00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:50.320
So whether that's psychodynamic, whether that is also having EMDR, um, and maybe certified, I'm certified and a consultant, but there's different levels of training.
00:48:50.320 --> 00:49:06.239
Um, there's also sensory motor therapists, there's internal family systems, which has a lot of parts work, and that's a lot of for me, I integrate a lot of different approaches because I I really try to attune to what the client is needing.
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:13.599
Because so much about healing, even with EMDR, is how we're kind of reparenting ourselves while we're parenting our children, right?
00:49:13.599 --> 00:49:18.719
Like how do we start to meet our own needs that never went met then so that we don't need to get them from our children.
00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:21.119
We're getting it from now parts of ourselves.
00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:37.840
So there's so many different ways, but I would encourage whatever therapist you're looking for, if you feel like there's some past stuff that's influencing or getting touched on present day stuff, I certainly would encourage you to look for therapists that are more trauma informed.
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:48.000
That's usually going to be somewhere on their website or even in a consultation that you have with them, just asking about, you know, mentioning that there's some past stuff.
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:49.519
How do you work with that?
00:49:49.519 --> 00:49:57.440
Um, you know, and also that it's normal for you to not know what you need to work on, right?
00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:26.239
Like that's part of what a really good solid therapist can help through the relational component, also of what gets played out in therapy, start to kind of uh illuminate, help you notice patterns as you talk about present-day triggers, getting there's so many ways that it's like for me, sometimes my doorway in is gosh, as you're as you're talking about you getting heated with your teen, where what are you noticing in your body?
00:50:26.239 --> 00:50:27.679
Oh my god, my chest.
00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:28.239
All right.
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:33.920
Well, if we were to like trace that same sensation back in time, does that feel familiar?
00:50:33.920 --> 00:50:34.719
Yes.
00:50:34.719 --> 00:50:50.159
Okay, if we were to even go back to like little you, can you remember a time that you felt that same sensation in your oh my god, yes, when I did, you know, and sometimes it's not so clear, sometimes it's pre-verbal, sometimes it's not necessarily influenced by past, and that's okay too.
00:50:50.159 --> 00:50:53.119
We're not gonna create trauma where there wasn't any, right?
00:50:53.119 --> 00:50:54.639
Just by opening the doors.
00:50:54.639 --> 00:51:05.360
I think some people are worried about that and nervous about that, you know, especially it sounds like maybe when there is a feeling of I only go to therapy for big problems.
00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:20.719
It's like, you know, there's so many ways that you can find relief by going for things that are not necessarily these like big, big obvious traumas, but I like to think about it more as how have been things impacted me.
00:51:20.719 --> 00:51:26.000
Because everything in life impacts us, whether it's positive, negative, neutral, like we're ambivalent.
00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:33.039
And so and one part of you may feel like I should be able to get through this without therapy.
00:51:33.039 --> 00:51:48.239
And there might be another part of you that's like frozen, feeling like I feel so unsafe, I feel so unsafe, or I feel so in flight or in fight, you know, and and angry, and I just don't know how to stop it, but I should be able to get through it, right?
00:51:48.239 --> 00:51:51.360
We have those are different self-states that are at war with each other.
00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:55.119
And you're not supposed to know how to get through it on your own.
00:51:56.400 --> 00:52:09.599
No, and I I think that's that's an that's a very powerful point because I think that is this is why I always tell people to work with an expert and not before you go to work with an expert, don't self-diagnose too much.
00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:10.480
Um that's right.
00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:11.760
Because that's be honest.
00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:13.039
I mean, that's tempting, right?
00:52:13.039 --> 00:52:17.920
It's it's and I know lots of PTs, uh, physical therapy, physiotherapists are the same.
00:52:17.920 --> 00:52:22.800
The amount of people that come across that I come across that say, Hey, Pete, fix my shoulder.
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:26.639
It's the only thing that's wrong with me because this hurts.
00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:33.440
And then you look at them and you go, dude, your back is messed up, your knee, your fist.
00:52:33.440 --> 00:52:39.280
Everything is you're a wreck, your shoulder hurts, and that's annoying you now.
00:52:39.440 --> 00:52:43.519
But we really Oh my god, that's such a good, that's such a good example, right?
00:52:43.519 --> 00:52:45.519
Like, I went to years of PT.
00:52:45.519 --> 00:52:49.519
I probably should have, I wish I would have known you and flown to Europe, right?
00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:55.119
But like I went through so many years of chiropractor PT where I'm like, my neck, my neck, my neck.
00:52:55.119 --> 00:52:55.280
Yeah.
00:52:55.280 --> 00:52:59.199
And it wasn't until someone was like, You have a hip disparity.
00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:00.559
Yes, no wonder your neck.
00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:04.960
You know, like and it's similar to therapy, right?
00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:17.440
Yeah, people come in when when a when a client comes in, or when I work with parents or or adults or teens, even when they come into my office, they're usually coming in for symptom relief or symptom management.
00:53:17.440 --> 00:53:18.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:23.679
And what I'm looking at is what's causing the symptoms, similarly to what you described.
00:53:23.679 --> 00:53:26.159
Like, dude, it's your back, you know?
00:53:26.159 --> 00:53:32.559
Like I'm looking at like of course you can't stay in a serious relationship.
00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:35.039
Of course, you're losing your shit on it.
00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:44.719
Because look at how, like, if we look at how little, you know, Sarah, how to survive through yada yada yada.
00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:47.199
Like, of course you're feeling impacted.
00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:50.800
There's a huge part of you, it's so scared to trust, right?
00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:54.480
So again, it goes into attachment, it goes into all sorts of things.
00:53:54.480 --> 00:54:00.320
And it, I think it helps give you an appreciation for what your symptoms are today.
00:54:00.320 --> 00:54:12.800
And and actually, while it feels like a little daunting sometimes to step into some longer-term work, there's so much longer-term relief that can come from real meaningful shifts.
00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:29.679
And oftentimes, if there is something that is kind of fueling an undercurrent of present-day triggers, sometimes just reframing or or staying solution focused, oftentimes clients come to me when they've tried that kind of therapy because certainly it works for some people.
00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:30.159
Yeah.
00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:31.840
But there's a lot of shame.
00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:33.199
Like, why what's wrong with me?
00:54:33.199 --> 00:54:36.719
I can't just do the homework and now it's I'm better.
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:38.159
Like there's something wrong with me.
00:54:38.159 --> 00:54:42.000
I keep failing, and now there's shame when actually there's nothing wrong with you.
00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:45.199
Your system is just responding exactly the way it's supposed to be.
00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:49.119
It's trying to protect you from actually feeling those pain points at all.
00:54:49.599 --> 00:55:04.159
Yeah, no, and that again, that I mean, that really translates directly to any any because I have a lot of physios and and PTs listening to this, and just and medical professionals that they this translates exactly to what we're always talking about, right?
00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:25.519
It it is you have an issue uh that you're aware of, uh and nine out of the I don't know, you punch the wall and you're like, ah, my wife to to to go into the middle-aged guy wise uh mindset of the I don't want to go anywhere, but my wife says I have to go because I keep punching walls and she's a little bit concerned, right?
00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:27.360
That that type of stupid thinking.
00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:30.239
Thinking that it is just you're saying it, I'm not.
00:55:30.239 --> 00:55:31.199
Yeah, no, exactly.
00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:33.119
I I can say that because I'm an asshole.
00:55:33.119 --> 00:55:42.480
Um, but it's it's the it's uh thinking that that I just need this solution so I can stop doing the one thing, right?
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:45.519
Because that is quite often, it's what gets you through the door.
00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:49.119
And and now and oftentimes that happens, right?
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:56.719
Either you've lost control in your parenting, you've lost control in your marriage, sometimes it's substance use, sometimes it's I mean, who knows?
00:55:56.719 --> 00:56:04.559
And sometimes it's about a partner saying, You gotta take, like, you gotta get some help because I can't stay in this if blah blah blah, right?
00:56:04.559 --> 00:56:07.199
And okay, so that's that's the doorway in.
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:09.280
And gosh, I wish it were that easy.
00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:13.360
If there was like a magic fix, I would be rich.
00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:20.559
Yeah, you know, and that's why sometimes I think self-help books or things, it's like if you just read this, then you're good to go.
00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:23.679
And and then you end up feeling like, what the fuck is wrong with me?
00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:25.920
Like it's it didn't work, right?
00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:30.159
And we start to look at, okay, though, so there's something that gets us in the door.
00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:33.840
And for me as a therapist, I'm not looking at it with any judgment.
00:56:33.840 --> 00:56:36.800
I'm looking at it of like, huh, let's get curious about that part.
00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:44.480
Let's make sense out of what's happening in you and trying to see where that went, where that dysregulation starts.
00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:53.119
Certainly help with strategies around grounding, understanding body cues, anger management, self-regulation, all of that.
00:56:53.119 --> 00:56:58.400
But now let's try to make sense out of like what's what's igniting the fire?
00:56:58.400 --> 00:57:00.079
What's getting triggered?
00:57:00.079 --> 00:57:01.280
Right?
00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:08.159
Because if we don't address that, then chances are it's just a band-aid over the behavior.
00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:10.960
Yeah, and any quick fix with any sort of stuff.
00:57:10.960 --> 00:57:12.159
I'm sure it's the same with bottom.
00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:14.960
Yeah, it it it's just quick.
00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:16.639
We sell quick fixes, right?
00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:19.840
As it, or at least quick fixes sell, let me put it that way.
00:57:19.840 --> 00:57:21.119
But they tend not to work.
00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:33.360
And it when they then fail, exactly like what you said, when the quick fix fails, as it always does, you end up feeling like that there's something wrong with me because that thing that Instagram told me would work, right?
00:57:33.360 --> 00:57:35.920
When you're talking about the tapping, I've seen the tapping, right?
00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:49.519
The the neuroregulation tapping thing when someone then says to me the equivalent of I'm going to try the tapping thing, because I've seen on Instagram that that works, I'm like, Yeah, dude, you're doing this wrong.
00:57:49.519 --> 00:57:51.360
Do you know how many?
00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:54.480
Yeah, there's a million ways that it works.
00:57:54.480 --> 00:57:59.360
I'm not saying it doesn't, but you can't just go with the random person on Instagram.
00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:02.159
So tapping helps with some things, and therefore I'll try tapping.
00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:06.320
And then a week later, tapping didn't work because you try it for a week and then you're on to the next, right?
00:58:06.320 --> 00:58:24.000
And yeah, it's the get in the door first to speak with someone who knows what they're talking about, such as yourself, and then have them say, This is what we're going to be doing, and just be open-minded that there's probably more to work on than what you think there is.
00:58:24.800 --> 00:58:25.199
Right.
00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:27.360
Um, right, that's fair, right?
00:58:27.360 --> 00:58:28.320
Because that's how it always works.
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:29.039
Totally.
00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:46.079
And also it's very normal, I will say, as people start to feel awareness and it's a little bit of like disillusionment around the glasses cracking, you know, or kind of a blueprint that needs to maybe be tweaked and right re-looked at a little bit.
00:58:46.079 --> 00:58:50.639
I will say that it's very normal for there to be parts of us that feel very resistant.
00:58:50.639 --> 00:58:57.519
So while there's a part that's like, help me, help me, I want to come, there's also a part that's like, what are we doing?
00:58:57.519 --> 00:59:00.800
Like, what are you what are you doing going to therapy?
00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:07.440
This woman, Sari, is trying to like uncover all the things that I figured out how to keep us in check about.
00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:08.880
Yeah, I don't want to touch that.
00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:10.159
We're not coming, right?
00:59:10.159 --> 00:59:11.760
There's a lot of ambivalence.
00:59:11.760 --> 00:59:14.880
And and actually, I really welcome that that those parts are also allowed.
00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:16.079
In a way, it's like teens.
00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:19.599
They're allowed to say, If they're in the I love you, I hate you stage.
00:59:19.599 --> 00:59:21.920
I need you also back off.
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:24.960
You know, it's it's all very inside out, people.
00:59:25.039 --> 00:59:28.079
It's all very um Oh my god, I love that movie.
00:59:28.559 --> 00:59:30.960
All therapists I've ever spoken to love that movie.
00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:32.400
Of course they do.
00:59:32.400 --> 00:59:34.159
Like, that is you.
00:59:34.159 --> 00:59:37.119
Oh, I felt so seen with anxiety.
00:59:37.119 --> 00:59:40.000
I felt so, I was like, I feel so seen.
00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:41.039
This is me.
00:59:41.519 --> 00:59:42.079
Yes.
00:59:42.079 --> 00:59:45.679
Uh on the happy note, was there anything else you wanted to touch on?
00:59:45.679 --> 00:59:47.679
Because we've covered a lot of ground, I think.
00:59:47.920 --> 00:59:48.559
We sure have.
00:59:48.559 --> 00:59:51.280
I mean, I've just really appreciated the conversation.
00:59:51.280 --> 01:00:09.599
I like actually the the correlation between the work you do and and the way people come in, kind of to, you know, taking a chance to actually like do the longer-term work of healing their bodies is what kind of happens with with therapy.
01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:18.159
And I think my if I were to give maybe a takeaway, is that there's nothing wrong with you for getting hijacked.
01:00:18.159 --> 01:00:20.960
There's nothing wrong with you for getting dysregulated.
01:00:20.960 --> 01:00:22.880
It is a part of being a human being.
01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:23.920
We are impacted.
01:00:23.920 --> 01:00:26.320
It's more just what do we do with that?
01:00:26.320 --> 01:00:32.960
How do we, how do we kind of, if we need some help getting skills to learn how to regulate?
01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:38.159
And sometimes it's that deeper work if that just doesn't stick long term, you know.
01:00:38.159 --> 01:00:42.079
Um, that's part of why I I love, I mean, that's why I do my one-to-one work.
01:00:42.079 --> 01:00:55.119
That's why I created, you know, the course to really help illuminate that for potentially deeper work, or maybe there's enough in there that because it does ask those, it does look inward at those deeper stuff too.
01:00:55.119 --> 01:00:59.280
Um yeah, and I just really appreciate the space to share.
01:00:59.280 --> 01:00:59.840
So thank you.
01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:00.719
Oh, that's great.
01:01:00.719 --> 01:01:11.440
And like I always tell everybody who's maybe concerned about setting foot in the room, but and and with therapy, they still with at least within the UK, there's a bit of a stigma around it.
01:01:11.440 --> 01:01:14.639
The nice because everybody thinks they're going to be the worst, right?
01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:20.239
Everybody thinks I'm gonna walk in, I'm gonna be the worst case that she has ever seen or he has ever seen.
01:01:20.239 --> 01:01:23.920
And trust me, trust me.
01:01:23.920 --> 01:01:28.159
I have seen almost with regards to PT and all that sort of thing.
01:01:28.159 --> 01:01:35.679
I have seen wreckages walk through the door that are so much worse than anyone could ever have been.
01:01:35.679 --> 01:01:38.559
And there is still a solution there somewhere, right?
01:01:38.559 --> 01:01:40.559
I think that there is no embarrassment.
01:01:41.199 --> 01:01:41.679
That's right.
01:01:41.679 --> 01:01:45.039
I mean, I think people are craving to feel that there's hope, right?
01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:45.599
Exactly.
01:01:45.599 --> 01:01:49.199
That that there's that there's going to be relief at the other end of it.
01:01:49.199 --> 01:01:50.880
And it takes a lot of courage, right?
01:01:50.880 --> 01:01:56.320
It takes a lot of courage to walk into your office in a wrecked state and be like, oh, all right.
01:01:56.320 --> 01:01:58.079
What can we do?
01:01:58.079 --> 01:02:08.239
Yeah, as much as it takes a lot of courage to kind of walk through the doors of therapy, or even at the very least, recognize like, I might need some help, you know.
01:02:08.639 --> 01:02:14.559
Um absolutely, and I'm not happy that I will press stop record here.
01:02:14.559 --> 01:02:21.039
And of course, press uh stop record is exactly what it is.
01:02:21.039 --> 01:02:27.119
Thanks very, very much to um uh Sari for coming on.
01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:29.440
Like I said, I absolutely love this conversation.
01:02:29.440 --> 01:02:40.880
This is why I like having various experts on on on um uh on the podcast to discuss the same subject from but from slightly different angles.
01:02:40.880 --> 01:02:52.639
Um, because as um as uh Sari and I discussed, you need to find a mental health professional that works for you, right?
01:02:52.639 --> 01:03:11.440
And and that that that you can work with and that that fits you, and this is why you know there are lots of different uh different approaches, and and I I I really am I'm fascinated by the EMDR stuff that we discussed but basically, you know, that's what I'm saying.
01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:12.400
I love this.
01:03:12.400 --> 01:03:14.480
I'm a huge fan.
01:03:14.480 --> 01:03:22.960
Um that is me done for another week because I realize we're just past an hour now, and you're fed up listening to my DOS at times.
01:03:22.960 --> 01:03:27.920
Next week it'll be another old one, and then after that, I'm doing uh another QA.
01:03:27.920 --> 01:03:30.480
So get your questions in, get your comments in.
01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:34.079
Either text in or Peter at healthyplostnatal body dot com.
01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:35.039
Whatever you prefer.
01:03:35.039 --> 01:03:36.639
Here's a new bit of music.
01:03:36.639 --> 01:03:37.760
Take care of yourself.
01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:38.800
Bye now.