E271: Post Season Whitetail Scouting | Finding The Big Bucks Now!

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Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Tyler and I'm Casey and you're listening to the Element podcast. Oh what's happening all the woods people? We are chilling right now upstairs, and uh, we just got some new first light in. By the way, this whole podcast is brought to you, powered by however you want to say it, first light. Um, say your thing that you're supposed to say about Josh Hill, brought to you by a first light. Go further, stay longer, whatever it is, it's your favorite saying, trying to go not as far if I can. Yeah, we go as far as you need to. It's exactly right, man. Sometimes you know, like I've shot a deer like eight yards from the road, shot one to Um probably did that this year today, this year, UM, let me think. Okay, Nebraska far South Dakota, Uh decently close, Um, Illinois far Kansas far Oklahoma decent Oklahoma is the closest. Never shot a deer. That's what I was thinking. Yep. So um yeah, yeah. Still, no matter how far you go in there, you still need to stay warm while you're while you're there, and the stuff we got today to stay longer, you know, I mean part of it. I mean I need to stay at least ten minutes in Oklahoma. In Kansas, I stayed like ninety minutes exactly. It's like nine times as long as you stayed in Oklahoma. Yeah, for sure. And the stuff. We just got some new Marino bass layer stuff. I don't know if it's out yet or not, but there's some stuff coming. Um, it should be cool. But today, since it is now mid February, most of the country is in a post deer season spot. Okay, but as dedicated white tail lovers like we are seen as how it is dal Hine's day were lovers of the white tail are um. Season never ends, right tyler Um. Pretty much right now you're thinking about fishing a lot. I think about fishing. That's a hill hunt a lot right now. But but our podcast listenership at this point probably doesn't think as much about fishing. And y'all let us know if we need to talk about more fishing stuff, because we can. We can, We would love to. But uh, it seems that least based off of YouTube, that you guys care way more about deer hunting than you do about bass fishing, so you'll care about hog hunting because there's also a lot of that on the YouTube right now. Uh, fixing to me more. Yeah, there's some cool stuff coming out, a lot of spot and stalk stuff. And we've talked a little bit about the US on the podcast how the hog hunting stuff translates really well as a deer hunter, because, um, we not that we all know really how to our experts at hunting them from the tree, but that's a very traditional thing. Uh. There's a new push in the whitetail hunting world right now to hunt them on the ground. And um, with deer, you just don't get a chance to have a ton of experience doing that. So hogs fill that gap very nicely. You can hold your skill hunting hogs on the ground. That way, you're prepared whenever deer season does come around. Um, and what else can you do on the ground, tyler, Um, there's a lot of things, uh the deer where the deer lay down most of their sign at uh typically in the bottom fore foot of the terra. Obviously, I want to I want to find that that when right at the foe ft mark man, that's what you're looking for. So uh, since it is the post post uh deer season, we're gonna about some postseason scouting stuff today. Okay, Uh, it's extremely valuable. We we harp on this sum but today I think we need to tell you why it's valuable and why it actually does make a difference. Because you can go out and scout de your anytime, you know. Shoot, you can scout dear mid season, and we do that a lot. But I feel like I don't plan that as much. It's usually a lot more like spur of the moment. Hey, I need to pop in there and see what's over there? Why did that deer cross that road right there? That sort of stuff, whereas the postseason scouting stuff you can be a little bit more planned about what I mean, I'm dumb pss Why did that deer across the road? I thought chicken across the road? And then I was like, well, which came first? The deer the egg, and so deer the egg. Pretty good stuff there, in my mind, is pretty good. I mean, if you're gonna make nose puffs about it, you gotta tell us, okay not to Yeah. So, um, Tyler, have you had postseason scouting payoff directly for killing a year? Yeah? Tell me about it. Um. So this was Actually, what's cool about, uh this time of year is a lot of people still, at least in Texas, I guess, a lot of people still have like small game stuff they can do, whether that's rabbits or squirrels, and so you can go out and like really, um, kind of be hunting but also get some of that postseason scouting done. A lot of dudes are looking for sheds this time of year, but I think, um, those are people who live in Iowa, and uh it's a little early, it is, but people are like, you know, like I saw one of our buddies found a giant like four point side the other day. Um, and still have bucks chasing dose where we live. I mean so, but yeah, I mean the the cool thing is like going out and just post season scouting. You kind of gotta be a whitetailed nut to do that, and I've done it before. But um, two take a gun and potentially shoot a squirrel or you know, a snipe or a rabbit or something like. That's that's where you're like just like going out in the woods and having a good time pretty much and then having it pay off. So to answer your question, though, we were squirrel hunting maybe two februaries ago or maybe yes, I think it was two februaries ago. We were squirrel hunting in a place during the snow, and the snow was a key because we don't get snows down here, you know, so it was being having the snow was really opportune thing for us. We kind of were really just hunting more than anything. But if we're always looking at deer side, help it can't can't help it. It It takes us forever to walk through a property where you would intentionally be trying to just kind of push through, see if there's a squirrel a rabbit around. It's a fact. Why is that it inhibits our hunting? Sometimes it does because we'll end up like pushing with the wind. When we really got like we got buckshot in for hogs or something, you know, it's like, well, we're definitely not gonna see a hall right now, but we're finding some deer sign. So but yes, we were squirrel hunting. We come across a uh, pretty good trail, and this trail was basically a perpendicular where it ended up and where we ended up on it. Actually a lot of trails came together, but especially this one main trail that we kind of followed was what led us there, and it came across perpendicular to kind of a topographical feature that kind of made the X marks the spot thing, right, um, and we called it the four Corners because uh, an X has four corners in it, and so, uh we end up hanging a trail camera there at some point, maybe in the next fall or whatever, and uh it ends up being a place where your good friend Eric Gentry kills a buck about that, yep, And uh we've had some decent truck camera data from there, and uh kind of said, hey, you should go there, and it worked out a very similar situation that videos on YouTube. And then there's another video on YouTube from our friend Greg who uh hunted a place that was the result of a very similar thing I actually went in. Um. So, if y'all have been around the element for a while, there's this whole dear named teenager. Yeah, if you know about this, you've been your g al right back when you used to have time to name dear uh. Um, Well, you were trying to find teenager ships because Tyler was a little obsessed with him, and I wanted Tyler to come to so I had a afternoon I went out to the area that he lived, and I was looking for teenager sheds. Did not find them, but I did happen upon a spot that was like the baddest pinch that I can really name, uh maybe across the country still, and UM figured out that there was food source uh nearer there that the deer were traveling to, and there was just a really good creek crossing at this pinch, and I was like, hey, we should set a camera here next season. And along behold. Five years later, our buddy Greg goes in there. Um kind of he hunted that spot a few times that year, but it was really a good day to be there when he went in there and shot a sweet non typical Texas But and I can tell you this, we would have shot some deer there over the years if we were spending more time in November there. We haven't spent much time in November there because there's just a lot of places to be in November. But I will, I mean, I think this is an interesting thing about that spot is we get maybe more dudes on camera in that spot than anywhere else we have a camera. And I think, what's what's interesting about that is that guys are we get them on camera because when you walk through the woods, that's where you end up in this area, you end up right there because it's it's the way. It's like you said, it's a pinch and it goes there. But the thing about it is you don't realize it's a pinch unless you're really paying attention. And so that's why that's one of the reasons we want to talk about postseason scouting some of the things that um like a the approach to it, but like also some of the things that can be helpful or and or misleading about different sign that you can find, and then some general concepts as to why you or how maybe you can find that spot and when you walk through it as opposed to just completely being oblivious to it like some of these guys are. Because we we never see dudes hunting in there. We always have like multiple guys walk through this area on like little scouting missions and stuff. And so you know, sometimes if you just take off walking and in the woods wherever you go through, something like here's something you do well when you're whether you're scouting or just me hunting or whatever. Yeah, like one thing you do well is you tend to uh which is this is weird because you're a fast paced dude and like, you know, see everything kind of just like squirrel squirrel, you know, but like you slow down and stop often to kind of well, in my opinion, you're observing, observing, observing. Uh, You're observing what's going on around you and trying to really decipher things, and you kind of make it a point to stop often and do that as opposed to like, um, I'm a little more uh. I guess goal oriented makes me this way, but like I'm like there's a thing six yards in there that I want to go see. I'm just gonna blitz in there and see it. And sometimes it's like sometimes that pays off, so I don't think it. I remember one time you ran run a few places in to check something and ran out like just you're like, hey, let me multi purpose this. I'm gonna like run for my health and also running too, and I got really sick. Uh uh So, but I think that that's like that's a good way when you do that. That's a good way to all of a sudden just end up in a spot looking around that doesn't look like much and go, actually, there's this over there, this over there, and this over there. It makes sense now that I'm sitting here looking at and thinking about it. Oh and by the way, there's a Mexican plum tree right there that I wouldn't have seen if I was just flying through the woods. You know. So like those are the things that that's a good way for us to approach start to think about approaching post season scouting is like to kind of take your time through some of this. Yeah, there's a times that cliches are good to think about, is post season scouting putting the pieces together, Right, that's a very cliche White paill thing to say about. Yeah, it s it so, but it's like really important in the postseason because guess what, you're not going to probably observe an actual to you're doing something that you can hunt them doing at that point in years. So you need to take the pieces of what they have been doing, put all that stuff together, and come up with the game plan going forward. And that's kind of like you're saying, the approach to it is is just like taking what you can see from last year and applying it to upcoming seasons. Um and that's gonna vary from state, state, region to region a little bit. Um, and we're probably gonna talk about some of those examples in a little bit as well. But there is like this importance of scaling this so um, not like blue gills you know before you put them to Greece, but the scale is in the size and like the um as our friends like to say, bandwidth that you may have. Right Um. Oftentimes you made this point, will it go post post post Michael? Post season scouting is not something you do out of state, and if you do it, you might do it once when you want to go shed hunting or something if you're really a white tail nut. But you brought up to a good point that this is oftentimes something you're gonna do close to home, on like one of your local hunting grounds. Right yeah, for sure. I mean I think typically when people think of post season scouting, it is on something that they will spend probably the majority of your time hunting. Um. So you know, you you make a good point, uh that certain types and that would include me, can sometimes burn through a place real quick and not really gather. They may gather what they intended to go in there, and gather because they may have a spot they want to see, but they may not actually be able to put the whole piece of the puzzle together because they didn't slow down. And I think you've gotta you have to think about in all this and to hold this cold conversation, let's go ahead and caveat it with like you have to understand what your intentions are and what you what you want out of your hunting season. Next, this is a question I want to ask you if you're thinking about approach um and I think I know what you think on this, and I think you and I it's not that we're it's not a right or wrong thing, but it's just our different way of looking at stuff. Would you rather pick a piece of ground, so say like you take a w M A or something and you can section off like tuned acres. Would you rather say, I'm gonna go just learn everything I can about that tuned acres? Or would you rather look at a whole map and be like, I'm gonna find the best pinch points on this map and go look at a bunch of them, Like would you rather go in looking for scenarios that would you rather go in and just look at the the piece and trying to get everything you can from it. If we take if we take the fact that I could carry a shotgun in there, out of the equation, yeah, just deer hunting. If I'm just deer hunting, just post season scouting, I'm probably trying to be very intentional about where I'm going. Um, But if I could carry a shotgun around, I might walk around a little more. So I think if I'm like I think I would, I would be the guy who would be like, all right, uh, here's a pinch point, here's a punch point, here's a pinch point, and then there's another thing I want to see. So I'm gonna go park at four different places in one day and buzz in and see if I like what I saw on the map. And if I do, then I might scout around a little bit. But if I don't, I probably will come straight back out. In most cases, That's what I figured you would say to see. I'm I'm the other I don't mind just going and spending ample amount of time on a two acre piece or whatever arbitrary number, um, and just trying to get whatever I can out of it. And soon I think that Uh, my approach at least on that is I might have some more busts than what your approach be on that, but I'm gonna have a couple that really pay off, whereas you probably, well, we're gonna have a couple that really pay off too, and there's gonna be fewer busts, but you might just be a little frantic trying to get it all done. Yeah, it's it's definitely a way to um work harder. Um. There's also this aspect where, uh, if it was still we'd probably both have a lot of bus but we can look at a map before we go in, and a lot of times uh like, if you pick that section to go work around in and spend your time in, it's probably a good section, um or you know, more more likelihood that it is than it was five years ago. And if I pick a particular spot, like a kill location, then it's the same thing. It's like, probably it's got a better chance than not most of the time of being something that I could a camera. A lot of times one of the reasons I'm doing that is, uh, look at something on the map and I can't figure out the thing, but I've seen deer crossing the road or on the dips or whatever, and I'm like, why why are they there? What's going on? Or this looks like this other spot that I know. Yeah, exactly, it's exactly right. And what's funny is that comparison of this looks like that doesn't pay off as often as you think it would. It's just because we don't understand the complexity in the number of variables that are out there. You know. It's like, well, Jimmy John, the farmer next door rides his tractor by this fence every day and that you don't like that or whatever, and you just don't know that, and that's I made that up. But like there's a bunch of variables that he is big hunter, solid, you know, he's solid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I I think you're right, Like, there's so many variables. So that's another I guess if you want to caveat it a little bit, it's like, we're gonna talk about some stuff here. We'renna throw some scenarios out at you. We're gonna talk about the different types of sign that we like, what we don't like, what we might not like about good sign and um, and then there's always all the variables, and so what we can kind of base off of is our experiences years could quite possibly be different if you grew up in New York State or something like that. You know. So, uh, with that in mind, we're gonna go forward here. If you do have a question or a thought in regards something we talk about in this podcast, you can send a message through Instagram. We get to see most of those. Still, we don't get to answer them all, but we get to see a lot of them. You can send us an email as well, or you know, any way you feel like you can get in touch with us um on any post or anything that if you want to talk about something like that, you here's something I've seen, or what do you think about this? I know you mentioned this in the podcast. Feel free to reach out to us. We like that kind of dialogue and we may even do a Q and a podcast with your question here in the next month or two. There's a more facilitated uh email address for that. Now to the element at meator dot com. Well, it's specifically there for podcast questions and interaction, So hit that up if you want to. That's the element at meteor dot com. Yeah, yeah, so Um, can you tell me at time that postseason scouting has worked out? Uh to kill you a deer in particular? Um, so I would probably go acted that Oklahoma buck we were talking about earlier. Um. And that's not as much postseason boot scouting as it is leaving a camera throughout a whole season. Actually, I hung a camera and mid December and it ran. It's a one of Moultary sale came, we run and it ran um all year long and sent me dear pictures throughout that year. And I had a couple of shooter bucks on camera throughout the year, And I just knew that this place didn't get a lot of pressure from from hunters, and it gave me the confidence to go in there and hunt. Um and sure enough, you know, killed a buck. So um. Yeah, I think the confidence of that camera was a big deal for you because we hadn't necessarily seen a whole lot of action there recently, but you knew this was a spot that people didn't really encounter deer often and so uh, and that the deer had been there a bunch in the past. Uh, We're actually we're actually having a really slow hunt on that trip. And he still ended up killing one that you think may have been bedded before you even got in there. Potentially he was in his area he was gonna be because uh, y'all might have noticed this too. But this year the rut was a little behind the normal rut dates everywhere we went to the country. Um. So uh, it was like the second week in November, and those deer weren't really raging yet, but they were kind of had on their minds or whatever. But that deer wasn't in cruise mode, you know. He he he heard something down where we were and decided to come check it out. Um, kind of like a and he he had broken ties, but he was still in really good body shape, you know, and and just hadn't been running around too much. But why why is that a betting area down in there? Um, it's thick. It's probably number one. Um it's close to reese horses. When you say thick, explain that in case there's some really nubs here. Well, it has canopy, which is kind of rare in this part of the country. Um, it has a higher stem count, which is a little rare in this part of the country. So stem being Uh, it could be a tree though, right Now there's a lot of trees in there, but there's also a lot of bushes, specifically sumac. This is a little thing that we picked up on this year. And it's not that like the deer are attracted to sumac, but if you find places that there is sumac, there is often deer there. Yeah. I think it's because it's like a well they call it pre emergent or whatever like it it grows um after souls are disturbed or it's like one of the first things to kind of come back in. Yeah. So, like it just makes for a thick area and usually like it's not getting grays too hard or whatever. Whenever you see that kind of stuff. It also has multiple purposes for the deer, which is something we talk about when we go to find a good area to hunt deer. A lot of times we're trying to find an area that has two or three variables that we like, and the deer like sumac for betting. They will rub it all oftentimes and leave sign on it, and they will eat the sumac berries or seeds. Have seen that a few times, and uh, it was very surprised by that. Uh, if you haven't eaten sumac berries you might should because it makes for a tasty little citrus tasting thing. It has citruc asset on the outside of the bears. They're not poisonous unless you have poison sumac. Don't take my word for it. They say don't eat the white sumac berries. They're the white ones are poisonous. There's uh it's called like ox horn sumac or something like that. Is the is a real good one. But anyways, um, those are kind of the other some of the key factors is also does in that area. Um, and bucks like to be near dose. Uh. There's terrain in that area, so they can like dip in and out when it feels safe. It just makes for a good spot man. Um. So that's kind of I think why he was hanging out in that area. Cool. So there are different types of sign. I'm gonna go ahead and name a bunch of sign that we kind of have listed off of stuff you potentially might look for in the postseason real quick, and we'll kind of go through and talk about some of these rubs, scrapes, fence, creek crossings, uh, trails, hunter pressure, something to look for, food sources, betting, and there are others uh if you want us to address the others. Like I said, you've seen us a message, um, and we'll try to kind of go through these talk about what's helpful, what's misleading, how do you find these things? What are you doing so? But generally, let's talk about this case some you are the uh master of observance. Um, how how do you when you go in and and think I'm gonna I'm gonna look postseason scouting in this area. We've we've decided that you tend to stop off and that you will will spend a lot of time in a pretty small area looking through some stuff. What's your whole mentality after that when you're going in to look at this place. Well, I'm not a note taker, so that means that there is sometimes things lost. For instance, I had a great revelation about rubs this year, and we can't remember what it was. It's on a podcast somewhere. Okay, if you remember what I said about that, please let us know. I need to look that up because it was really worth listening to. Are really worth Like I thought I was onto something and I really think I was. Um, but that actually kind of tends to help me a little bit. In this case because I don't get bogged down with things that aren't notable. So I'll run through a place and I don't have a great memory, guys, but like when I'm focused on something like scouting for deer, I can remember details like really well, Um, so say we go through a place in four hours scouting it, I'll remember the five or six things that I think are really important to to think about. And there might be something dumb like a I don't know, a whispy little rub or something that was in a weird spot that I might not, you know, pay too much mind to or whatever. So, um, I think is that kind of the answer you're looking for there? How do I mean? What else? Um? Like, when you think about as you're walking, what are you? What are your thoughts? Are you like? Are you in a constant state of telling yourself to look or do you are you thinking more about what you just saw? Are you thinking more about what's around the next bend? Kind of get real? Who woo? And you sure? So I don't like actively do this, but um, I clear my mind and just take it in and whatever jumps out to me. Uh, because of previous experiences or things as I've learned and seen other people do. I just pay attention to, so I don't. I'm not usually now. For instance, if you and I are going in to go look at a specific spot because I think it's a good pinch point or whatever it may be, then yeah, it's a little different, but we're just walking through something observing. I get on the most dear looking path I can find. You know, I'm not gonna walk the um uh, you know, like knee high duke grass, because there's not a lot of deer walking trails a lot a lot of times. And I've noticed this because some guys I think are afraid to walk deer trails, and when during hunting season, when I'm scouting my way into a place, I try not to walk the trails. I walked beside them a lot of times. Uh. But I've noticed that, especially in postseason and other times a year, you walk straight down a trail, you you have good vision like um like, you don't hardly ever run into a thicket where you can't get through it because you're always kind of seeing it's up ahead and working through that, which, interestingly enough, is what bucks do with big antlers on their heads. You know what. I mean, They're not going to run into a thicket all of a sudden. They're gonna follow that trail that they've been doing. A lot of guys look at like some stupid thick stuff like a regrowth old field or something to be like, oh man, but there's some deer. And I'm like, I mean, if there's a deer in there, they're gonna find a really good path to get off, because would you like to dip out plate of places? And they aren't gonna be in the middle of a twenty acre elm thicket that you can't get through. There's not gonna do it. You know what, how far do you think hunters deer in South Dakota was bedded off the edge of that marsh um? If you had to guess, I think he was a hundred yards back in there, do you. I don't think he's that far. It might not have been. I don't know. I feel like that sucker was like twenty yards back in there. Maybe not, you know, tell them, I know some of those trails went way back off in there, so who know they do. But I just feel like, uh, he just I mean that I think that they said they thought they like basically hurt him get up or something like that. Maybe I feel like he was just hanging right off the edge right there, and he's just gonna pop out and cruise that edge that night. You know. But like to your point that stuff was thick cat tails, they're not just you know, for one, that stuff ends up being monotonous a lot of times if it's that big, right, So edges is essential, um And like I said in the postseason, you're not um, You're not really like you can disturb a big buck in February and still shoot him in that spot potentially in October, Like he's not gonna be gone because you went in there and busted him one time, especially because you bust him out of it, you know, like you have to. There's risk with everything, and that's one that's worth taking sure, you know. I mean yeah, I mean it's if you don't bust them out of there trying to scout him up, somebody else scouts him up and bust him. I mean, he could happen. I mean, you just can't really live like that. It's like, you know the people that um I like to get onto us about our saddle techniques in our in our screw grades being closed or opened or whatever. It's like, Yeah, well you drive your car right next to somebody every day you're going sixty. Have a question for you, tyler, this is uh. I have two questions. Yeah. The first one, you know those uh like safety ropes that um go up the tree? Um, how did they get in the tree. It got to be put up there by a human. Somebody gotta put them there before their safety rope? Okay, good yeal. The next question I have is, um, let's break down some of these different signs we see. Okay, when you see rub a rub or rubs um. The plural of that word is has an ass at the end. It does. You don't see a lot of rub out there, and there's not many duel maybe uh, so, um, what do you find valuable about that? And what can be distracting about that? Or misleading? Okay, so misleading distracting? Um. We'll start there, and I think a lot of guys will see rub and think there's a big ruby. So I tried. I may not have Actually that may not have come out, y'all. Let me know about that. Uh. Anyway, A lot of guys will see rub and uh, and just go, oh man, like you, I mean you've been there, like how many times you've been just with some dude, good friend or whatever, just like yeah, but there's and you see a rub that's on a cedar tree the size of your leg and it's five ft tall, and oh man, looking at that. You know. Uh, what has um made me a little bit maybe even too like having too much disregard for rubs, but made me disregard rubs to a big extent is hunting in Kansas where it's open and seeing um, like after your hunt, you're driving, you know, you walk out, it's dark and takes you forever to get out. Sometimes when you're driving home, like you may be driving back to camp and it's like really like pretty dark, maybe like seven thirty or something, you know or whatever. Or like in the past we've gone places and and uh, you know, like where it's legal look for deer at night, you know, with headlights or whatever. And uh, anyway, you'll see these deer like out and literally there ain't a tree within two miles and that there's a big buck standing there right or whatever, and so it's like that deer would not be caught by that highway in the middle of just short grass or wheat field or whatever. It would not be caught there in the daytime. There's no way, I mean even during the high of the rut, most of the time they're not caught there, you know. And so with that, like you have to understand that every night, dear do things that they will not do during the day, every single night. And so with that in mind, every piece of sign has to be you have to have some sort of like is this or could this be made at night? And I think with rubs that's where we get a lot of times. A dear also is very comfortable at night. Needless to say, Therefore, he might make a big rub at night and just sit there for for forever because he's in the dark. There's no reason to run anywhere. There's no you know, nothing to urge him to go one way or the other, and he may just go to town on this big cedar tree at night. Right. So I guess that's the long way of saying, UM, one rub doesn't do a lot for me. UM. But I think multiple rubs that are decent sized can tell you some things. And I think what I can kind of glean from that is that the fact that like, um, A that could be staging and be that could be uh maybe like perpendicular buck movement across deer or dough trails in a certain direction on an edge or something like that. So, UM, maybe a good place to put a camera. I like to I like to always take the sign that some of these different signs and put cameras on them and try to learn something because even if it's only nine time pictures, you can learn a lot about that. Absolutely. I also think that UM, with rubs in the specific postseason scouting time of the year, you can get a little confusing. And this is gonna be the same and we're gonna really talk about that with scrapes too, UM types of sign the deer lay down throughout the season, uh is a little bit weird because that rub might mean something different November than it did in October to you as a hunter, um, and you're gonna hunt your according to that. But if it's February, unless you're in the South, UM, if you see rubs, they happened like a month plus ago, So it's hard to really know when that was put there. Like, for instance, if you are hunting and you see a rub on October two, there's a real good chance that that buck is close um, or there's a really good chance it's fresh because they haven't had their velvet off for a super long period of time, and that time they're not moving around a whole lot, whereas on February one, in the same area that do youer had like four months to rub trees in there, and they're all kind of old, so it's hard to tell, you know. I'm I've tried to get better at telling like if a rub is a day old or a week old, but I probably can't tell you if it's three months or four months old. That would be really hard to do. I think you could. I think you could take rubs that you see right now and you can put them in these boxes of what I said earlier. And then there's also this thing where like one rub um can help you. It can be helpful if you think about what it sits in relation to. And therefore, in the case of like the pinch, if there's a single rub there then and it's a big signpost rub and it's got like multiple years of use, that can you can know that that is a pinch that bucks are going to use during the rut, probably every year, even if it's only one rub. Yeah, there's a specific rub that I pay hardly any attention to, and it is a solitary small tree. Short um short scraped up a spot of a rub. Okay, so that that pretty much means to me a one and a half or two and a half year old deer who doesn't really know what he's doing did that. Now there's there's the other ends of the spectrum him that I still pay a lot of attention to. So like, you can see a small tree, but if it's like near a decently used area by deer, trail pinch, whatever, if it's just torn to shreds, any deer could have made that because they're mad and he's just getting frustration. And in fact, I kind of like that stuff. That means that there's a deer in there that's frustrated for some reason. Like I guess a buck could walk around and just be frustrated and do that. But a lot of times from observing deer, when I see deer do stuff like that, they've had an encounter with a different buck and it made him mad and they took it out on a tree. So that's where you see those like kind of wispy but like really broken up stuff. And then you go to the the other direction where it's a big rub which oftentimes are rubbed on by multiple deer. Uh you know that like it's pretty high use right, and and you're gonna have multiple bucks probably visiting that thing. It's about, um, when you're walking through the woods this time of year, you find a scrape A how did you find it? Be? What do you think about it? Most of the time when I find scrapes, uh, see the looking branch for see the scrape um, because I don't have my eyes down at the ground all that much. You know, it's usually scanning her eyes and looking for stuff. And you see a tree that just looks like scrape tree. It's got a hanging thing, you know, overhanging branch that's you know, dear head higher a little higher and um, then you can kind of see that it's torn up or bitten on or whatever. And then you look down and see the scrape. Scrapes are the hardest of all of these, I think, because um they are oftentimes at least in October, scrapes can lie to you really really bad, really bad especially and at least in my experience, the further north you go, like this year in Illinois, there were scrapes all over the place and we couldn't even find a buck, you know, and we had cameras on them and all kinds of stuff. And I think that dear just go wild making scrapes in the end, like they kind of level off and use certain ones, um because they're kind of like us, like it looks like a scrape brands, let me go just make one right quick, and then nobody else goes by there. It doesn't do any good then, uh, you know, as season progresses, the ones that are in high traffic areas turned into big scrapes, and then late in the year you can end up with a lot of big scrapes because there's been enough time for deer to visit a lot of these things. So like, I don't know, the early November scrape stuff is a really you know that that means a lot to me, um so because there's still it's still something that's active at that point. It's been open for a while, but you're over scraping late December one time, and the seeing that that was the n season type deal but seeing that led you to want to hunt there. Yeah, I think, Um, you know one thing you gotta in that case, I'm scouting my way in. And the reason that I take that scrape and decide to hunt over it is because they are fresh tracks in it, like a buck's been standing there licking the branch. Um. It didn't look super fresh like they were scraping it out. Um a whole lot. Like there's a few leaves in it. Stuff. A lot of times that your time of year, it's cold and dry too, so scrapes don't look the same way to do in late October. Yeah, And I mean, if the wind's blowing at all, you know it's gonna throw a few leaves in there that time of year because they're just they are as dead as it gets pretty much. So. But you know, I decide that that was a good place of sitting. It paid off. I killed a deer that hit the scrape. Um. I don't think that's like something that happens all the time or what happens, you know, but that's how that's how I would take a scrape in late season and make sure that if I'm going to hunt over it, you've got to make sure that it's it's got some use now in postseason. There's some things you know, you're probably not getting a whole lot of use in the postseason, uh from deer on a scrape and so um. You may have to look a little harder for the scrapes this time of year because they may be covered by leaves quite a bit. The the licking branches may have either been chewed completely off or just not being chewed anymore. They might not be like orange and kind of a you know, a flag to you when you see it. Um, So you you have to look, like you said, I think for for that branches hanging at a level where I've seen branches hang a lot, you know. And I think I remember a scrape I found um in Arkansas this year when we hunt with Clay, and that was um. It was it was like a like a post oake type of tree, you know, like a like a smaller oak tree that kind of has these limbs that are all at like four to six ft and there was like three scrapes on it. Man. And I think that, you know, when I see something like that, if you find something like that in the postseason. We've even seen this we did a map scout challenge at a place real close to here that I saw this same type of deal play out with an oak tree. They tend to have these like kind of nice crowns and that all grow out at the same level. And this is like a medium size oak tree, and you should see scrapes all around it, just peppered around it. And I think I like those a lot. I like them probably just as much as like what you would call a hub scrape that's the size of a car hood or whatever they say, um, because you've got the reason those are being made is because bucks are coming into that tree from different angles usually, so they're not just walking to a scrape on a trail. They're walking from different angles into this tree, making a scrape and sniffing around and then going over and checking another scrape or whatever when they see it. And so you know that it is a hub because there's multiple trails coming in making multiple scrapes, and so that excites me a lot. And I actually almost killed a deer like a hundred yards from that that tree. I found in Arkansas a buck and ice buck two bucks actually, and uh, which you'll see that footage here in the next couple of months, UM when it releases. But another thing that I like to think about UM in the scrape world is uh lost it one go ahead. So one of the things with scrapes is UM it pays to look for them on the deer trail type stuff that I was talking about or that you pointed out about me, Because if you find a scrape that's in a not high traffic area, it's probably not very good. This is this goes this help is what you're thinking about. So, like, the reason scrapes are there is that, like rubs is debate. It's debated as to like why deer make rubs or maybe there's multiple reasons. But scrapes literally our communication devices and so why do you do it? And they want to communicate with as many deer as possible and understand who's there, and UM maybe have a level of dominance assertion the you know that that's kind of the the muddy waters in that. But there there, they're there. Uh, scrapes are there so that multiple deer can can make use of it. So you want to look for scrapes that are in high traffic deer areas. However, he goes back to the nighttime thing, a scrape that's really really close to an open field agg food source type thing is liable or not be a daytime things still the great spot for a camera. But if you find the one that's um, then this is gonna depend on where you're at in the country. If you find the one that's far enough off of let's just say that, um, the destination, Uh, then you're in. You're in a really good spot. Yeah, that's some other reason why it pays to walk dear trails, because dear us dear trails. That's right. Yeah, And I think I think of U two scrapes in particular that fit the narrative of that. And then also what I am kind of going to add here, Um, there is a type of tree that's little and kind of weird shaped. And I don't know if it's because it's been scraped on a lot in its life or what. But in Illinois on the where I killed and where um the scrape that's closer to home that's here in Texas. Um that that that what we call the scrape. Right, it's actually not where you ended up hunting a whole lot, but it's very close. I hunted there a couple of times this year. Those the two trees that those scrapes are made on are like eight to six to eight foot and or less. They're like really we and they only have like one main limb that comes off of that one that you're talking about is like almost a whispy rub tree that ends up being a scrape. Yeah, it's weird because the trees both I felt like both of them leaned and both of them had like a one limb, Like the other side didn't really have limbs on it had like one limb that kind of leaned over. It's built a lot like the fake scrape yeah thing, Yeah, you know it's yeah, it is, And I don't know what it is to that, but those are two of the better scrapes we've found, and they're both a very similar type of tree, so it might be something to look for, Like if you find a scrape on one of those, put a camera on it, you know. And also this isn't really postseason, so sorry, but um, if you find an area that has that high deer traffic. Um, at least in Texas, we've had a lot of success with making a scrape. Yeah, it's good boy, mock scrape thing works pretty good for sure, So don't be afraid to do that. Uh, few, I think it can pay off, Yeah, for sure. So, uh, we spend a lot of time on rubs and scrapes because a they're one of them especially is very important to us. The rubs, we've were trying to trying to work that out right now, but there's definitely like a lot of controversy controversy uh generally and deer hunting culture based around rubs. The other ones that we've got here, we want to talk about them, and we want to be pretty extensive, but we uh, we're gonna run through these a little bit quicker, kind of hit the highs and talk about them a little bit. See us being faster with these two. Yeah, So fence and creek crossings are something we spend a lot of time hunting. Uh, but what are you looking for in the February woods when you're looking for fence and creek crossings and what are you observing from those? Well? Um, can we group trails into this too, because trails lead to these things. So really, um, a trail the way that they're made, I wanted to find it this way, but the way they're made is like a commonly traversed piece of ground by deer, so much so that deer used the same path the whole time. I can see them good this time of year because also with snow and stuff, there's been a lot of pricip and precipitation that has uh caused these things to become muddy. These trails exactly yep around here in Texas, especially after rains. You know, we get a good rain and wait a week and then you'll be able to go see the fresh stuff. So in following trails you come across these other things, do you are lazy? They're going to cross things in the easiest place for them, uh. And creek crossings not so much. But for sure fence crossings, it's usually at a spot that either trees fall on the fence the wires tied together, uh or it's like a low spot so like the fence they can kind of like get sideways on it and it's like a lower spot for them to jump something there. Like deer can jump in eight foot fence. I've seen him do it. They don't want to have to jump anything at all, So they're gonna find the easiest place and a lot of times that will carry the trail to that. UM and creek crossings are the same thing, except for the deer let the trail kind of decide for him sometimes. UM. But what ends up happening is that like for some reason, deer, hogs, beavers or something kind of make a slide right there, and then it becomes like an annual spot. Um. Even if it's really tough spot to cross the creek, there's like a spot where the bank's worn down or something. We've been in places before where there's creek or ditch crossings, it's like it's only deer and it's worn down like a foot because that's it is the place they crossed, you know, And it's really cool when you find that. That's exciting when you find it, you know. I mean to me, uh that if you're gonna try to make a difference in a fence in a creek crossing, I think typically a creek crossing um is a place where you can find bucks in November, and a fence crossing potentially as well. But if you find the fence crossing right now, that's like being chewed up right now and is good. There's a lot of times the reason it's there is because it's going to food and because because that's what they're focused on right now. So in my opinion, depending on crop rotation stuff, this could be a spot that pans out early season, but definitely next late season if you haven't shot a buck or you're still hunting and you want to do this thing. There's not gonna be a whole lot of people in the woods, and there's a good place to at least have a camera and learn some stuff about how you can killed deer Lake season A hundred of creek crossing or fence crossing. I'm sorry, I think it was twenty nineteen. Is the morning we talked about this whole time. Journey got sick and you can go a hunted a fence crossing that morning and had a big mature hunt team. It was eighteen or seventeen. Yeah, so it was a long time ago, but it was like it was November one. And fence crossings are great during the rut too, because those bucks are kind of just nose on the ground and they're gonna go where it does win. And I had a buck come right underneath me and couldn't get a shot. It was kind of tough. But um, anyways, I have first hand experience with fence crossings being a really nice place. There's another thing to think about. We get hogs that cross under fences. He might have mentioned that, Um, but they make like these like like you said, the beaver slide type of deal, Like it's like a hole under the fence. Those will cross there, but bucks a lot of times good bucks won't cross there because of their antlers, and so hog will put its body down in the water. A lot of times those players have mud and muddy watering and do you don't like to do that as much? Then deer'll get wet, don't get me wrong, but they preferred not. You know if that makes me think about Chong, because Chong across the fence and he avoided the hog crossing, which we've seen dear used back when it was dry. But it was wet, so he went like fifty yards down and the antlers on his head and ganlers. How about it jumped the fence instead. Yeah. Um, So let's move on to hunter pressure because it's different from the other ones there. Um, what can you tell about hunter pressure in the postseason? The best way? This is something I think about all the time because we really cut our teeth as far as public land deer hunting here in Texas, both of us. And if you find a spot on a map that looks pretty good, there will be a stand there. There will be a stand. And so that's the one thing when you're too Yeah, when you're scouting, it's like, man, uh, there is a stand in a lot of places. So be you know, be keep your eyes up. See see the stands in the trees. They're easier to see when no leaves, But you have to pay attention to win. That stand was potentially used last this year in Arkansas. You saw a really big buck and I went and hunted the same place later in the hunt and there was a climbing stand forty yards from where you were set up. And so I say that to say this, it doesn't mean you can't kill a deer there, but it might have to be a Tuesday instead of a Saturday, yeah, or it might need to be sixty yards from there, like depending on the cover. Yeah. Yeah, that that stand was in a neat spot. But really he just kind of found a flat spot that he could kind of get a lot of shots in. Whereas like you had a better opportunity from where you were set up on the ground. If if the deer are not smelling this guy, um, or even if they are in case at certain cases where they are used to pressure, like if they can approach an area and smell that dude to know he's in there, then you know, then that's different than if you're sitting where you can't be smelled, you know, or if you know. So you have to think about these things like how well is that thing set up? How bulletproof does that stand? Where is he accessing from? Is he bumping a lot of deer or not when he comes in, because if he's not bumping many deer, then they ain't bumped, you know what I mean? Going there and hunt on like sitting on Tuesday and and make it happen. Um. That's that's one of the main ones I think about, is like seeing the hunter. Um the stands in these places is that people will leave. Um, nobody will leave a stand like a ladder stand. Hunter will I mean climber. I guess ambitious about getting it in there, but so much about getting it out. Especially they're on sale Walmart for like sixty eight bucks right now, so if you see a ladder stand, you might just really try to understand it hasn't been hunting this year, because there are a ladder stands where we hunt that are probably ten or fifteen years old. Also, ladderstands tend to be not in the best spot. Um. That's one of the great things about saddle hunting is that you really can hunt any tree where it's like a ladderstands the ultimate limit of like where you can put a tree. Also another thing to think about here, I think that, uh, sometimes we'll walk into an area where dude's got some nice stand set up or whatever, and he's cut a bunch of limbs. If if that's the case, if there are a bunch of limbs cut somehow we've seen whole trees cut down. Dude, like people are crazy, he's crazy, right, These guys must be sponsored by steel or something, you know, so they go in there and cut all these limbs. What I think of that as is this hasn't hunted a whole lot of public probably, and he likes the fact that, you know, on pot private you can trim a tree. And so he may have gotten real ambitious one day and decided that he wanted to do something that was cool or whatever and went in there and set him a stand up. He may have been hunting there a few times, but this dude is just not really into the game of trying to figure out how to make the public land game work on a on a legal level. Maybe, so, um, you may just take that and go, hey, it's postseason. I bet that dude ain't gonna be in here next year. There's also a concept here too of the private land mentality of repeatedly hunting the same spot in a situation like that too. So you can look at the other direction. Uh, if there's a beat down foot trail to that thing, he's been in there a lot. I don't like the foot trail down stuff either. That's a good way for me to really not want to be somewhere. Uh. And in fact, if you get out of the parking lot and there's a foot trail headed some one direction, just go about ninety degrees how that is and start walking and you're laughing a and some good stuff. So we're where Greg killed this year I hunted, um, I think probably I would think like twenty nineteen ish, Um, I hunted in there quite a bit and I was seeing a bunch of tracks in there, and it wasn't very good hunting in there. So people is bad uh thumb shiny thumb tacks, orange tape. Ay, that stuff just is not my favorite manor at the parking life there's a bunch of vehicle tracks there. You know. That's another thing too, is like you can drive around because you've had you know, four months of people parking in places and kind of see where people tend to park, uh, and you can have some pretty good ideas about where what places are getting pressure. You can have a really nice like WM a parking lot um that doesn't have a lot of pressure at it, or you can have this pull off that's like next to a bridge for some reason and just people are just raging it. You know, So like keep that in mind. We have found that like over the years, hunter pressure really like morphs and changes throughout the years. Like it's typically uh not, I would say, like there's not more than one or two years in a row where the pressure is the exact same in that spot. You know, you know, you'll know how people are. Somebody's like gets fired up, They're gonna go hunt some public ground and they go in on like October eighth or something first, like kind of cool day, and they have a good hunt. Well, they're liable to be there all year long. They do the same thing next year, going on October six something kind of cool day, and they don't have very good hunt. They're they're gonna be gone. Yeah, I had a kid this year. Man, I just can't do any one that's right. It's like, don't give up on spots because it had pressure one year to keep chagging, keep putting cameras out. I mean, I I'll be honest. Cameras are a huge part of what we do. And I know that that probably rubbed some people wrong, but like, uh it is, it doesn't. I don't think it takes away from my woodsmanship to hang a camera after I find a good place only you know what I mean. Uh, one deer this year as the result of truck camera data. And it wasn't just the camera that killed him for me either, you know, So like it ain't like a thing that always like it's guaranteed to kill you a deer. It ain't like one of them kind of deals. You also hung in a tree not super close to where that camera was didn't six ft off the ground and a willow tree that will move around, you know. So I mean you can take it how you want. Here's the thing is like, do what makes you happy on this stuff? Yeah, So like if you're if you're happy to have a camera and in the exact like under your tree stand and you're happy to kill a deer, then do it, you know what I mean. If it doesn't make you happy and you think that I killed the deer because of the camera and I'm just the worst hunter, and then don't do it. So that's what it Bull was gonna teod. Sources are the season? What are you doing well? Postseason? It goes back to that kind of fence crossing idea that I had earlier. It is like, if you can find good trails going into uh some sort of food source right now, then man, like this is this all this postseason stuff relates back to how like how are you gonna apply it to next year? Right? Because next year is what you're scouting for. You're done hunting this year, so and you've got the whole season ahead of you from the pre rut all the way to the post trut, and so what you're finding right now really can relate to uh, all these different seasons. As you've heard us talk about food sources is definitely a late season relator when you look at the postseason stuff and so not that it can't be used in the early season, right sometimes. I know, uh, I haven't personally seen this a whole lot or maybe ever, but like I hear that you can kill deer over beans when they're green, and then you can kill them late season when all of it's dried up, right, depending on uh, you know, how efficient the harvesters were. Buddy Jered Mills who kills a lot of big deer hunt beans every day of the year. Yeah, no matter if they're yeller. What Our buddy John from Iowa's the same way. He likes beans, you know, and so I seen you meet him. Yeah, and so I mean, how do you think you got to be that big? He's a big old dude. Um. So, anyway, you've got this whole window potentially with beans that could be something. But you know, other other food sources like this time of year, what we'll get, um is we've seen this in the past. We're not sure that we're not sold on this, but road ditches grow a ryegrass this time of year, and it's like the only green thing around sometimes and not always in the road ditch, but other other places that can end up being a destination thing that you didn't really think of being as a destination food source. So the problem with the road ditch food source is that it usually the road ditch touches a large area of a piece of public grounds. So it's hard to like decide, oh, that's where they're always gonna be, you know, because they can kind of filter out whatever direction. Yeah, but sometimes there's bridges, like a lot of these public lands are close to like lowland systems. You've got bridges or stuff like that where there's only so much you know, of a green source right there on the on this side of like that river system or whatever. And so you know, and I'm not even I'm not even making a case for this. I'm just saying that there are weird, ambiguous uh food sources out there that you can find that are late season food sources. You may have late uh uh acron stuff like we've had this year. You know, we're like deer or still potentially eating acorns from this year because they dropped so late this year, and so paying attention to these trails and what they're ending up on food and food source wise can kill you deer um in the late season, but also like the acorns were late this year, but it doesn't make that tree any less of a producer sometimes. So if that's a producer in November typically or December as opposed to December January, then you've got a rut food source there potentially too, So you gotta pay attention to that stuff a lot um. One thing I've noticed about food sources is that if you hunted deer for a while, uh, you kind of know that corn and beans kind of have a rotation, and uh it's good. Like if you're in the Midwest, if you see beans, you know like, oh, next year this will be corn most likely. But you get outside of the traditional Midwestern states, that rotation is not as solid as people try to make it out to be. Um, there's a lot of fields, especially locally, that are corn. Every year. We don't have a lot of corn, but if there, if there is, it's like it's always corn or cotton or something dumb like that. Yeah, there's not a lot of beans down here, and you'll find that even in other states too. It's like it doesn't just because it's corn out. I mean it's beans next year. You know, it's probably pretty market dependent and soul dependent and all that kind of stuff. Um, alfalfa, you've heard me talk about this little bit. I love alfalfa because it's usually always gonna be alfalfa unless they get really ambitious about replanting or something. Um, So that's a good food source to look at. And also if you can find a spot that is, um say far from agga, but still has deer, it's actually a really cool thing because your late season food sources didn't kind of go to the more naturalized stuff, and usually those things aren't as concentrated, so you can have deer that move a lot more in the late season than they do in places where like the deer just have to go to a bean field or beat field, so they just they don't. Anytime you can find deer that have to travel far, you have a lot more opportunity to kill them because they're on their feet more. So that's the thing to keep in mind. Tyler. Yes, sir, well you think about bedding man, I think that, Um, if you find betting this time of year, you can bet that it is, probably, especially if it's on public semi remote, if not very remote, very secluded more than anything. Really not necessarily remote, but secluded from typical human activities in that area. Do you think that, uh, do you think of betting like as far as the type of foliage or flora the same way you used to mm hmmm, Probably not, I mean, depending on how far back. No, me neither. I used to think that when I saw cedar thickets, it's like, oh, the deer in there. I don't really think that's the case where we live, at least, you know, other places. Probably so, I think those cedars could behave as like screening for what's on the other side of them. But I don't think they're gonna bed in those cedars very often when they're thick like that. So if you're postseason scouting, are you looking for betting? Is it a thing that like you're trying to find at the end Now? I think I think not usually, because it's it's hard to see, especially we're local to us, you know, it's hard to see that betting. They don't bed in the same spot every day. You can't just go set up in a tree dan in fault style and and shoot a deer when he stands up out of his bed or whatever. And they all say they do up there in the North Country. But so I'm not looking for it, but I do take notice of it because one of our better spots, Michael actually almost killed a deer in this spot. This year, Um, we found a betting area in some thick just kind of recently probably I bet what they did was actually probably uh. Cedars had been cleared from this area and a bunch of blue stem and briers and BlackBerry and stuff grew up in this area. Uh. I think it was the first year we spent much time scouting together at all. We found this area. We jumped like a spike and a couple of doze out of there or something. Um. We were we were kind of like a pig and rabbit hunting, I think. And then since then we have uh and this spot is not like far from the road at all, and we have since found um lots of deer use in there pretty much year round. We found deer in there. We got pictures of deer fighting in September and making rubs in September. In there, we've got the only place I've ever found a bloody rub. Yeah that's right, that's right, Yeah, that's right. And so and Michael went in there and almost killed this year. Now he observed some hunter pressure, um, and when we were in there, and I went back instances not very far from the road and found some cameras and stuff and decided this wasn't the year to be in there because there was some dudes in there for sure. But but he did hunt it early and almost killed in there. So for me, you know, when you find betting postseason, you found a place that dudes haven't been hunting very often. And this dude, this place has always been that way except for this year. And maybe it'll not carry out that way, hopefully, and maybe it'll you know, it'll be back to normal next year. But if not, we you know, we we've been able to even bless the scout a lot and find a lot of good places and have some good theories in our heads and stuff. So you know, I think betting is potentially a really good thing to find this time of year because you can find like said, secluded, so you're gonna find bucks a lot of times in places like that maybe early season, and then those may have moved back into that stuff you know, in the in the late season. So so we're all trying to kill deer. You can't really kill him this time of year physically, right, Everybody likes to have the you know, the funny of like they're killed in pepy where or whatever, you know, mentally kill Yeah, that's right. Um, so you're backlogging a little bit here. How do we apply all the stuff we learned in the postseason to the next year. Do you think about what your goal is next year and then uh use the stuff you found to do that, or do you go out there find stuff and be like, Okay, well I can work with something here. Yeah, I think you. I think you can do both of those things. But I think that you definitely are always, even subconsciously, knowing how you hunt and what you're hunting for, and that's what you're applying in your thoughts subconsciously. So like, for instance, if your dude that wants to kill one big, old mature buck every year, and that's what your m O is and that's fun to you, then you are probably taking everything you're learning and putting it in that category and applying it that way, so you might even be finding that specific deer. Yeah, that's I mean, that's probably your m O is, like you're taking all this this sign that you're finding here and the betting and everything, and you're going super remote and you're trying to set a camera web and find that specific deer. If you're the guy that just wants to shoot a nice buck or shoot a few doughs off of property or whatever, you may still set a camera web, but it may be to help you find the actual trails that are being used the most. So as far as applying goes, you have to start with like what do I want out of my season next year before you start applying this stuff. For me, I'm always thinking about killing like three year old pluses mostly, and so it's really books. Yeah, it's it's not about finding a particular deer in the most remote spot. It's about finding uh, three to five year old deer where they exist. And so they sometimes exist real close to the road and sometimes they don't. Now you know, and they're not particular because I have multiple options if you find it. If you're trying to hunt the buck, then he's particular, So you have to really everything is related to him, So I like, uh, not hunting specific deer now, Like I think it'd be fun to hunt a specific deer. Actually, you know, on my personal property this year, I kind of hunted a specific deer. Never actually went hunting for him, but you know, mentally thinking about him a lot. Um, and he's around. Um. But um, if you we're going to look at your season of UM, maybe don't name a state or whatever. But however, you can answer this without being too specific. I guess that is what I'm trying to say. Where did we go? Um that you think some postseason would really be beneficial? Um? This, I think the probably the earlier season stuff would be beneficial, because I don't we're so far when we're hunting those places from the rut that you don't see a whole lot of last year's rut sign and you don't see this year is because it's early season. So that's probably the kind of places that I would like to see the most and probably benefit a lot from. But if I never hunt them during the rut, then maybe I'm not learning it too much. Um. I was thinking Illinois potentially would be a place that i'd like to just if I was ever in the area and I would like to run through that and look at it and go, oh, this makes sense because I started to learn some stuff towards the end there that almost got almost got a big ten point shot. Yeah. Do you ever just have like these places that you're like, man, I hate that place. Yeah, I almost way about Illinois and not the offense to you guys that hunt it, but I think it's pretty tough to hunt. Yeah, I don't. I wouldn't want to, but I mean that's what um if I was gonna go back and hunt that place, that's what I would I don't even mean that specific location, Yeah, I mean the whole state. Oh, I don't know how I would hate to lunk Pike County in to see I'm sure, I'm sure sure, But um man, some of these Midwestern states are a lot tougher then people give them credit for. Because I think too, there's a there's a big buck expectation. So like if you're like, you know, say we go somewhere that is in the South, Like if I went to Mississippi, I'm shooting the first rag bug and I won't be excited about it. I go to Illinois, like it's kind of poping younger bust almost, you know, and it's like that's a lot rarer dear. That's that's the reason that marks there. So also that country is so fertile from an agricultural standpoint that like the farming practice is are very particular, and therefore it makes the deer and their use of the landscape very particular. Are particular, dear. Yeah, I don't know what man, so well, that's yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. I mean, I think as far as applying stuff that you're finding now, you just have to the general concepts are, um, when was that sign made? How can you figure that out? Um? And then also relate that don't necessarily make that uh dependent or anything, but like, um, make it more independent, and also see how it can work with um, like what do dear do at certain times of the year, and and so knowing that, so for instance, just quick little example of what I'm trying to say here is a pinch could be good all year, Right, I go in there, but I want to say, like what, uh like, when would I kill a deer here? How do I apply that to next year? Right? Well, you can kill a deer in that pinch in the late season because it's heading to food every day, but it probably gets the most use in the rut, So I could justify hunting that both times of year. I probably wouldn't hunt that pinch early season when it's kind of warm and deer maybe not moving a ton before dark. Um. But like there's two different, two different thoughts of hunting that. And also when you go to set your stand in that pinch, if it's the rut and you need to, you might can get away with hunting and blowing your wind at that pinch because you might have a If it's the height of the rut, you might have a dough just go crazy busting through there with a with a buck on her and you get a shot at the buck and you're not not worried about it. You might not be able to get away with that late season, So you gotta take all these things into counter or into effect when you go to make your plans for next year. But that's the excite part of it, man. The unknown is what's cool. Man. I don't even know where I'm hunting next year, so it's pretty excited. I've been talking. I got a couple of a couple of spots, but I'd like to maybe revisit a little bit. You mean you and mean you talk about that a little bit kind of you know, our talk about the whole like don't give up on a place because it had pressure kind of made me say, you know what, I might need to look at that again. So thank you, and I'll probably talk about that here. All fair some um you guys, if you haven't, uh, go check out the YouTube channel. There's a lot of cool stuff coming out over there. We have some old videos you should go look back at about some postseason scouting stuff and who knows, we might make some more of that uh stuff sometimes soon if we get out and do some of this, which I'm sure we will to a certain extent. Um. Uh really appreciate you all listening. If you're new to the Element podcast, it's a lot of this kind of stuff, a lot of uh deep dive into whitetel tactics. We like to laugh and have fun and Joe OK and eat Mexican food and all the good things, man, all the good stuff, so little geez. Of course we're all bad humans, but we well you serve a great creator, right, so h a row bad human associations as oh well, remember to get your acronyms straight and remember this is your element live in