Episode #116 Featuring Cynthia Thurlow PART 2! THE MENOPAUSE GUT: Balance Your Microbiome to Reclaim Your Health in Midlife and Beyond

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Bye.
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Every movement your body makes depends on energy at the
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cellular level. Many people think resilience, strength, and performance come
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from discipline or training alone, but that is simply not
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the case. They rest on a deeper biological foundation, your
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cellular energy system. At the center of that system are
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your mitochondria, the powerhouse of your cells. Every step you
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take Every weight you lift and every muscle contraction depends
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on mitochondrial energy. Muscle cells are especially energy demanding and
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contain thousands of mitochondria. Without energy, muscle simply cannot perform.
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And that's why I recommend Timelines MitoPure, a supplement containing
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urolithin A, which supports the cellular process mitophagy. Mitophagy helps
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the body remove damaged mitochondria and support healthier function. MitoPure
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may support cellular energy, muscle strength, recovery, and healthy aging,
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which are the keys to supporting mitochondrial health. Timelines MitoPure
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is now available at a new lower price of only $ 79,
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but you have to visit timeline.com backslash Dylan Gemelli. That's timeline.com
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backslash Dylan Gemelli to save today. All right, everybody, welcome
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back to the Dylan Chamele podcast. So I say this
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often about how blessed I am to have certain people
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and how much fun that I have doing this because
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it's a fact and I get to talk to some
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of the most amazing people in the world. But my
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guest today is literally the epitome of what I'm talking about.
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So I actually I didn't tell her this before. I'm
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going to surprise her now. I looked back because she
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was one of my first guests on the show. Episode
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number 15 filmed April 1st. Of 2025. No. And we
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are filming today. I know this isn't publishing today. April 1st, 2026.
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And I did not know that. I just told my wife, Queenie,
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right now before I walked in here. I said, I'm
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not going to tell her until we get on.
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Well, do you want to know the significance of today?
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Yeah.
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April 1st, 2016, I left traditional allopathic medicine. So it's
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been 10 years.
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Wow. Yeah.
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It's like I remember saying, it felt like I've been
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talking about it on the podcast and how this is
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a big milestone. But if you'd asked me 10 years
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ago where I'd be right now, I don't know if
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I would have been able to wrap my head around it.
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Unbelievable. Well, I feel extra blessed not only to just
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have you, but to celebrate this with you and celebrate
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all the things that you have going on and everything.
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It's always so nice to see you and talk to you.
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And I don't have an intro to do you justice.
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I'll give you a little rundown here to everybody, but
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it's not nearly enough. But she is a nurse practitioner.
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She's the host of the amazing everyday wellness podcast. She's
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an author. She's an international speaker. She's been a TEDx talker.
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She's got 25 years of experience in health and wellness.
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You can't miss her when you see her face. And
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even if you're listening to audio, you probably recognize her voice.
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So without further ado, Cynthia Thurlow.
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Thank you, Dylan. It's such an honor to be back.
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And thank you for being as incredibly gracious and accommodating
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as you've been given the demands of my travel schedule
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up to this book launch. So thank you for that.
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Well, as I told you before, I will help you
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and take advantage of any opportunity. I have to even
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speak with you whenever I can. So it is my
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pleasure to do this with you today. And We have
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some big news to get into for you today. We
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definitely wanna talk about your book that's coming out. I
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know the amount of time and effort that you've put
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into this, but beyond the time and effort, the meaning
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and the purpose behind it, I think is the most
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important aspect of it. So what I would like to
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do is get into some of that. I have learned
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the past year how difficult it is to write a book,
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the task that it really takes on, the time, the effort,
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the dedication, but also the meaning behind it. So I'd
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like to start first, just give us the title of
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the book and give a little bit of background on
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the purpose of it before we get into some of
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the parts of it. Yeah.
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So the book is called The Menopause Gut, and it's
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really unpacking the changes in the gut microbiome that women
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go through, navigating the perimenopause to menopause transition and There's
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a lot of attention right now on perimenopause and menopause topics,
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which is fantastic. But there's more to this middle age
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transition than most would lead you to believe. And so
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when I say that, it's really speaking to the gut
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microbiome interfaces with every single organ system in our bodies,
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men and women, but it takes a dramatic shift in
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the response to a decline in hormones. And so I
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will oftentimes say to patients that, There's more to hormonal
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replacement therapy than bone health and brain health and heart health.
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There's a lot to the microbiome that is equally important.
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And I think because I have my own podcast over
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the past couple of years, I've just been synthesizing and
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absorbing comments that researchers and clinicians have said to me
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that led me to believe in 2024. My editor came
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to me and said, do you think you have a
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second book in you? And after I wrote my first,
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I swore I wouldn't do it again. You know, you
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get this beautiful amnesiac effect, much like when you have childbirth,
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women say, yes, I want a second or a third child.
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And then you forget until you're in the midst of
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it that the birthing process is a whole lot harder
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than you anticipated to be. And so I pitched this
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idea to my editor. She gave me a green light.
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She said, start writing immediately. And the really cool thing
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is that I was able to really synthesize an entire
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trajectory of my career as a clinician, as a woman
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in middle age myself, but also really spotlighting really interesting
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voices in this space that have contributed to my knowledge
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base and my evolution as a clinician and a female.
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And so this is easily the thing I've done professionally
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that I'm most proud of. This book was really hard
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to write because we all know life imitates art, but
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in the midst of writing this book, I had family tragedy.
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I had a loss of two loved ones. My husband
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got sick and writing became a distraction from a lot
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of the sad things because all of us, I mean,
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we're in the sandwich generation. We have aging parents and
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If we have children, our children are getting older. So
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your responsibilities are pulled in different directions. And that's life.
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And so in the midst of life, lifing, as Shawn
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Stevenson says, I was writing this book. So I'm pretty
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excited that it's almost here. The whole process just it
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seems like it's gone by in a blink of an eye,
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but it really hasn't. It has really been like two
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years worth of work to bring it to fruition. And
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so I'm really excited about it.
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Well, I'm glad that you had that outlet because I
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understand what it's like when things go on because it's
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just inevitable. And then to have an outlet and to
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kind of be able to let it out on paper
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and to take your mind off of it, I'm sure
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was soothing for you, or at least like you said, distracting.
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And do you feel like during those distractions in those
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moments that may have actually brought out the best in
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you in what you were doing to pull you away
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from what's going on and to put that down?
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Yeah, because I was forced to be very present. I mean,
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when you're writing, it's really hard to write if you're
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not focused. I think because of my background and the
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events that I had as a child and young adult,
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I think I have an ability to focus under pressure,
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unlike a lot of other people. And so my husband
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kept saying, if I ever needed to have acknowledgement that
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I know what you do when you put your blinders
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on and just focus, And so I would spend anywhere
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from eight to 12 to 15 hours a day writing
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in the midst of taking care of everything else. And
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it really was a distraction, but it was hard. I mean,
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I think there are people out there that write easily
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and effortlessly. And I think it can be incredibly challenging
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to take complicated concepts and make them really accessible. Like
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I had my editor in my ear saying, you're not
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writing a science textbook. You don't have to go into
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that much detail. I know you know that much, but
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let's just, you know, diluted a little bit so that
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we can make the information accessible and actionable. And we'll
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just continue adding to your 20 pages of references, which
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are now housed on my website because they didn't want
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to add 20 more pages to the book. So I
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say with great, you know, with great appreciation, I really
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made sure that this book is really a reflection of
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the science, but also making the information actionable, which I
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think in many instances, when we have books that are
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out there, they don't have to be unique to the
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health and wellness space. But sometimes the information is just
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information and there's nothing tangible that people can take away
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from it. And so that ends up being, you know,
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I think it just makes it more practical and therefore
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people know what to do with it as opposed to
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just regurgitating a bunch of facts. And people are like, well,
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that's great. What do I do with that?
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So, you know what I'd like to do with you
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is just get a little behind the scenes on what
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goes on when you actually write your own book as
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opposed to like a ghostwriter doing it or you talking
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and telling somebody because. sometimes people have this idea or
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this thought and then they gain a bigger appreciation of
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the book itself when people are critical of things or
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make comments and they don't realize the time and effort
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and work it went into that. So I got a
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couple like spitfire questions for you, I guess, so to speak.
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So the first thing that comes to mind for me
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that I think a lot of people do is, well,
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is it difficult to pack in Two, three hundred pages?
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Or do you find that it's so long that you
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have to condense it down? Because some people, you know,
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this are like when they go on and on and
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on when they talk. I'm like, oh, man, if they
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wrote a book. So for you. did you find it
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difficult or was it like, man, we got to shorten
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this up?
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You know, it's interesting. I had a guest on the
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podcast recently who said her first draft was 800 pages,
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which was like, whoa, that's a lot of information. I
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can tell you transparently as we were getting towards the
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end of me writing, I felt like we were trying
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to think of things to make sure that we struck
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the right chord. So my book is over 300 pages,
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which to me is about right. Any less, it might
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feel a little short. Any more, it might feel really lengthy.
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And then people might not be quite.
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As apt to read it.
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I think that there's this constant balance of making sure
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that you're not shortchanging any one chapter. You know, the
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bulk of the book is really focused on actionable items.
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And so I think when we got down to it,
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we ended up adding some recipes just to kind of
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round out providing people with some tangible ideas of things
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that you could eat that reinforce the tenets of the book.
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So I think the recipes kind of rounded it out,
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but not in a way that Let's be honest. A
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lot of books, when they throw in recipes, it's because
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they're struggling to hit their 80,000 word limit or that's
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the benchmark they have to hit. I think for a
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lot of people, that's kind of what they're working towards.
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But we really try to make it practical and actionable.
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So I think that what I would say to you
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is it's hard to get started and then it's hard
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to end. Like those are the two points that I
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think are most difficult. Once I get started, I'm good.
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And then at the end, you're so tired of writing
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and you're so tired of looking at the manuscript. You're like,
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I don't want to look at it one more time.
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I don't want to see anything the copy editor's written.
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I don't want to review anything. Don't ask me to
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explain it. You're just tired of looking at it. So
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I would say it's always the extremes. Beginning and end,
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I think are definitely hardest in the process. But once
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I get started, I'm usually pretty good.
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I would think the beginning would be very, very difficult. Yeah, it's.
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Because you don't. So I can tell you the first
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time I wrote a book, I had a hundred page
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book proposal, which is a lot of work. Second time around,
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my book proposal was one page. Wow. That made an
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order because I did not fleshed out like this is
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going to be chapter one. This is going to be
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chapter two. Instead, I was looking at the computer going,
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where do I want to start? How do I want
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to start? What's the most important thing to start with?
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And so, you know, you start having those conversations. I
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think it took me two months to really get a
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solid outline done.
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Like it took that long. Well, that was my next question.
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In the process of doing this, you come up with
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the idea, give it to somebody, then they shoot you
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either back, like they like it, let's work with this
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and then make edits or like, how does this process work?
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So you can see how long it takes to even
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get writing because I know it's a big process to
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even start. Cause I think people just think you get
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down to the typewriters to start typing random stuff. And
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that's just not it.
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I think that, I think everyone has a different process.
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I mean, for me, I actually have to, like, I
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literally have legal pads. I mean, that is, how I
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flesh out ideas like in general in my life. So
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I generally don't sit down and start typing out a draft.
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It's more like, what are the high level ideas? How
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do I organize it? And so for me, there's a
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certain degree of, you know, that fine motor skills of
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actually putting your idea to paper that really helps me
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solidify the direction I want to go in. But the
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cool thing is that my editor tends to be, she's
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there and accessible, but she's not She's not someone that
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micromanages me, thank God. But it's more like she'll touch base, say,
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are we on target to meet this deadline? Are we
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on target to do this? I think for a lot
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of people, it depends on how you work. Some people
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do best under pressure. And admittedly, because so much life
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stuff was happening throughout the fall and the summer of 2024,
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it just got harder and harder and harder to get started.
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And so by the time I really got started in September,
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I was very much under the gun because You know,
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you have a time frame. Are you going to bring
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in it? Are you going to bring the manuscript in
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on time? And you always want to. I mean, at
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least I want to because I want the monkey off
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my back. But I recall in February thinking like, oh,
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my God, if we don't get this done, I need
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like I felt like I needed more bandwidth. I felt
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like everything gets compressed in the midst of writing a book.
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Like the luxury of friends of mine that have a
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year to write a book. I'm like, oh, the next
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time I do this, I'm going to negotiate. differently. Like
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I said last time, I need more time than the
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first time. And then this time I was like, I
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want more time. But the time got eaten up by
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life happening, you know, the loss of my father and
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then caring for my stepmother. And it was like, every
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time I sat down, I didn't feel like writing. So
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you have to be, you have to want to write. Otherwise,
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it feels like you're It just feels, it just adds
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another layer of complexity and challenge to the writing process.
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And so I think that we all know ourselves. Some
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people do better under pressure. Some people need a lot
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of time to daydream and lollygag and, you know, walk
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around and try to, you know, for me, I was
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very much, there was very much a process of, I
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would get up, we would walk our dogs, we would
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feed our dogs, I would exercise, I would shower, I
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would eat, and then I would start writing. Because I
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needed to get all of that self-care stuff done is
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I have friends that would like get up in the
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morning and then just write furiously for hours and hours
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and hours and then they'd forget about taking care of
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themselves and exercising and eating and I just knew that
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I was going to be much better off if I
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could start the day with a degree of self-care as
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opposed to just jumping into writing where I always feel
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like I'm not or my brain's not organized yet it's
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like I have to do all these other things before
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I'm ready to work.
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So The process. And before I go, I'm sorry about
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your dad. I know what that feels like. And I
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and I just I want to say that before I
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even go on. Of course. So the process start to finish.
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And I'm talking the idea for the book, all of
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the BS you had to do before and then the
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writing and everything to publish date. Is that like a
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two year thing, a one year thing for you on
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this one?
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Yeah, I would say it started in June of 2024.
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And then my publication is April of 2026. So almost
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two years. But you have to remember, my first manuscript
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was submitted in February of 2025. And then there were
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edits and edits and edits. And then the manuscript was
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officially accepted in July of 2025. So Even though you're
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done doing the bulk of the writing, the process just
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never ends because you have copy editors, like people that
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are far better writers than I am, going in to
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massage and manipulate words to make it sound better. Like,
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I always say, like, that's a skill I do not have. Like,
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I bow at their temples because they just make your
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writing stronger. And they're making very subtle changes. Every time
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there was an iteration... and edit something that needed my
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eyes on it. And then towards the end, I was like,
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I don't want to see this manuscript anymore. I'm done.
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Like I literally put in my very last edited manuscript,
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the last manuscript from Cynthia, because I was tired of
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looking at the manuscript because you get to a point
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where you're no longer objective. You're just so immersed in
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your work that you're like, I don't even, I'm not
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even objective anymore. I'm just so subjective while I'm reviewing
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my work for the 1,000th time. And the irony is
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I just finished my audio book. I just finished the edits.
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And as I was saying the words out loud, I
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was like, oh, why didn't I say that differently? And
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then you can't say it differently. It's an authority in
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written form. But I think there's constantly an iteration. Maybe
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you're never 100% satisfied, but you realize that you get
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to a point where you can't have those perfectionistic tendencies
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because I think that they can be destructive. So I
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always say good is better than perfect. And so I
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think this is the best work I've ever done. But
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when I was doing the audio book, I was like, ooh,
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I would have said that differently. Sometimes when you say
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words out loud, they hit differently than when you write them.
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You and I are so alike. Every post I do,
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I can't tell you how many just Instagram posts I've
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gone back to be like, oh, I got to fix that. Oh, yeah.
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And then I stopped doing that because it is it
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actually is. it degrades the work if you do it
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too much and overanalyze. Plus, it's not good for your
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mental stability.
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No, analysis paralysis. I think that's the best of us.
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So, okay. And I remember when I was trying to
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get in touch with you when I was in the
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early stages of my podcast, you had this going on
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because I remember it being brought up to me how
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busy you were at that time a year ago. So,
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We are at crunch time. So then that brings me
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to this. So I had the opportunity to look at
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bits and pieces of your book. Unfortunately, I didn't get
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it till more recently. However, what I read, and of course,
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is very impressive. But I want to kind of touch
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on some of the topics because you and I talked
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about some of these before, but not all of them.
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And you have talked quite intricately on many podcasts about
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things and your knowledge is always appreciated. But Let's talk
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about some of the parts in the book that maybe
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you and I haven't talked about together and you don't
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talk about as much when you're out and about. I
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would rather get into that and really showcase your knowledge
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base a little bit and intrigue other people. Because like
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you said, I've talked about menopause a ton. So have you.
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Way more than me. But, you know, you've got some
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things in your book that I saw. Senescence was one.
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You talked about gut-brain axis. We did some circadian rhythm
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and sleep disruption. I'd like to get into some of
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those topics with you. But first, how did you select
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the different topic pieces that you were going to go through?
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What was your process in saying, well, to me, this
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is the most important? Was that through... what you've seen
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and gotten feedback from people that you've observed or your
395
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experiences or podcasts? Kind of get into that with me
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a little bit.
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I mean, I think, you know, I start the book
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off talking about this, you know, romantic teen's wedding anniversary
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trip to Morocco and how I got deathly ill from
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food poisoning, but my husband didn't, even though we'd eaten
401
00:20:26.180 --> 00:20:28.660
the same food. And so I'm kind of setting the
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book up to say, these are the things I didn't
403
00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:36.890
know about perimenopause that are already changing how opportunistic infections
404
00:20:37.029 --> 00:20:40.009
impact us as our hormones are declining. So when I
405
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was setting up kind of the infrastructure for the book,
406
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it was like, okay, we start with the story because
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it gives people context. And then we talk about like,
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what's the most mitochondrial dense organ in a woman's body?
409
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Our ovaries. What drives aging in a woman's body?
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Our ovaries.
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But the decline in ovarian function is the hallmark of
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that perimenopause to menopause transition. And I think for a
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lot of people, they don't know that the health of
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our gut microbiome is connected to the ovaries. There's a
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gut-ovarian access, just like there's a gut-brain access. But the
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gut-ovarian access, there are specific things that women do in
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their lifetime that can accelerate the aging of their ovaries,
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vis-a-vis also accelerating their cycling into menopause. Things like smoking, trauma,
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chronic stress, certain toxicants in our lifestyles. You know, the
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things that we're told cumulatively over time don't matter. You know,
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exposure to plastic and estrogen mimicking chemicals, smoking decreases blood
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circulation to the ovaries. Chronic stress imprints the body and
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also imprints the ovaries. And those are the things that
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I kind of started from and then moved on to
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aging of the immune system, which is immunosynescence. That's the
426
00:22:02.250 --> 00:22:04.890
big fancy word. But the aging of the immune system
427
00:22:05.109 --> 00:22:09.000
also accelerates aging. And so it really kind of walks
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00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:12.299
you through, you know, these kind of key players. And
429
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:15.759
the immune system is super complicated. I'm the first person
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to say I'm not an immunologist, but I had a
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big whiteboard out so that I could be able to
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talk about the key players in the immune system and
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make the information still accessible. So I use a lot
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of analogies in the book. And then we kind of
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move on to, you know, the gut bone access. I
436
00:22:31.490 --> 00:22:34.460
think a lot of people don't know that the health
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of our bones is largely dependent on the health of
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our gut. And then we move through hormones and then,
439
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:41.180
you know, we kind of move through different stages in
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the book. But to me, it's what made sense to unpack,
441
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you know, the story, the aging in our bodies, how
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the microbiome ages, what drives aging, just giving people like
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really salient details so that they could better understand their physiology.
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Because I think the biggest takeaway for women is that
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you have to change your lifestyle to match your physiology
446
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and middle age. So what we can get away with
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in our teens, 20s and 30s no longer works in
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our 40s, 50s and beyond. And that isn't to suggest
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that in the health and wellness space, you and I
450
00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:18.559
obviously know lots of people who are the magical unicorns.
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They're the outliers. But that's not just accessible to those
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of us in this space. It's accessible to everyone if
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they're willing to learn and understand. What are the things
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you need to change about your lifestyle that impact either
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accelerating or slowing the aging process? And the way that
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00:23:36.460 --> 00:23:39.049
the book is also structured is that we start with
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foundational elements. We start with sleep. We start with stress management.
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We start with nutrition and exercise before we even talk
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about hormones, before we talk about supplements. And I think
460
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the biggest takeaway, Dylan, that I wanted listeners to your
461
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:54.819
podcast as well as others to take away is that
462
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there's no magic pill. There is no magic pill. It's
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not a peptide. It's not just taking a hormone. You
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still have to still do the work. And so if
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you think you can live like you were 18 when
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you're 45, that's not going to work for you. As
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00:24:11.140 --> 00:24:13.089
sad as that is, people tell me all the time,
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I don't want to hear that. I want to still
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like eat pizza at three o'clock in the morning. And
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I'm like, no, you really don't. You really do need
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to alter your lifestyle to match your physiology. And that
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happens for men too, although it's not nearly as dramatic.
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You know, women kind of get shoved off a cliff
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and men there's a gradual decline in testosterone, but it's
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not nearly as dramatic as what women go through.
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Coffee gives you a moment of energy. Nandika gives you
477
00:24:38.859 --> 00:24:43.210
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slash Dylan. That's P-I-Q-U-E life.com slash Dylan. Yeah, I couldn't
494
00:25:50.509 --> 00:25:53.400
agree more. You know, and the people that say those comments,
495
00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:55.299
like we should have never been eating pizza at three
496
00:25:55.339 --> 00:25:57.740
in the morning like we did. We really weren't getting
497
00:25:57.799 --> 00:26:01.049
away with it. Maybe on weight. but not internally, right?
498
00:26:01.190 --> 00:26:03.529
And that's the thing that people don't understand. They think
499
00:26:03.569 --> 00:26:07.369
they're getting away with something, but in reality, they're not. Actually,
500
00:26:07.410 --> 00:26:09.970
they're causing accumulation of issues that are going to hit
501
00:26:09.990 --> 00:26:13.430
them later on down the road. And I think that
502
00:26:13.990 --> 00:26:17.640
bringing awareness to people younger is imperative too. And I
503
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:21.940
think that this book should resonate with more than people
504
00:26:21.980 --> 00:26:25.380
that are just midlife. This should be an eye-opening experience
505
00:26:25.420 --> 00:26:28.400
and understanding for people younger to prepare for what's coming
506
00:26:28.910 --> 00:26:32.450
and to understand what happens and how to prevent things
507
00:26:32.809 --> 00:26:35.930
from happening. And I think that that is an audience
508
00:26:35.970 --> 00:26:39.769
that I really hope listens and really takes note of this.
509
00:26:40.230 --> 00:26:42.289
And I really want to draw awareness to people of
510
00:26:42.470 --> 00:26:45.890
all ages because one of the things I've personally learned, especially,
511
00:26:45.910 --> 00:26:50.319
is thinking long-term and developing that thought process and starting
512
00:26:50.359 --> 00:26:52.859
young on all of this. See, this is part of
513
00:26:52.890 --> 00:26:54.920
the problem, and I'm curious what you think about this
514
00:26:54.980 --> 00:26:57.299
before we get into some of these topics. There's so
515
00:26:57.319 --> 00:27:00.289
many things that we're told. Like, you don't need to
516
00:27:00.329 --> 00:27:02.250
worry about this because you're this age. You don't need
517
00:27:02.269 --> 00:27:03.750
to do that until you get a little bit older.
518
00:27:04.309 --> 00:27:07.210
My thought is we start this a hell of a
519
00:27:07.250 --> 00:27:11.829
lot younger with the education, the changing of habits, everything.
520
00:27:11.849 --> 00:27:15.509
And that way we can have a healthier aging process.
521
00:27:15.549 --> 00:27:17.049
And we don't have to worry about a lot of
522
00:27:17.089 --> 00:27:21.130
these things being inevitable because we've already started the process
523
00:27:21.170 --> 00:27:22.730
of taking care of it. Yeah.
524
00:27:22.789 --> 00:27:25.109
And I was telling someone the other day, I recall
525
00:27:25.130 --> 00:27:28.890
when my, I have adult sons now, they're 18 and 20.
526
00:27:28.890 --> 00:27:30.349
which is hard for me to wrap my head around
527
00:27:30.369 --> 00:27:33.549
because it's gone by so fast. But I recall when
528
00:27:33.569 --> 00:27:35.609
they were probably just the same as it was for
529
00:27:35.670 --> 00:27:39.009
you and I. Fourth grade-ish is when you have sex ed.
530
00:27:39.049 --> 00:27:42.130
They separate the girls, they separate the boys. I think
531
00:27:42.170 --> 00:27:48.160
there needs to be mandatory, compulsory, equal information that the
532
00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:52.119
GYN or the internist is required to kind of start
533
00:27:52.779 --> 00:27:57.640
people way before we get to 35 or 40. So
534
00:27:57.660 --> 00:28:00.799
that men and women, well, especially women, because it's a
535
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:04.980
little more dramatic for us, but just basic information. Because
536
00:28:05.140 --> 00:28:08.079
I think if women could plan and know ahead of time,
537
00:28:08.099 --> 00:28:11.119
they would probably make better decisions. I think that for
538
00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:13.779
so many of us, like when I look at men,
539
00:28:13.900 --> 00:28:17.869
I mean, male factor infertility is increasingly on the rise,
540
00:28:18.430 --> 00:28:22.650
largely a byproduct of insulin resistance, poor metabolic health, and
541
00:28:22.710 --> 00:28:27.269
exposure to estrogen-mimicking chemicals. But we have escalating rates of
542
00:28:27.329 --> 00:28:30.450
infertility in both men and women. And I was just
543
00:28:30.490 --> 00:28:33.259
interviewing a fertility specialist and we were talking about this
544
00:28:33.299 --> 00:28:35.940
and I just said, our modern day lifestyles are not
545
00:28:36.500 --> 00:28:40.559
superimposed with our physiology. And I think there just needs
546
00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:45.140
to be greater awareness because I think most people don't
547
00:28:45.180 --> 00:28:47.180
want to have trouble with infertility if they want to
548
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:49.200
have children. I think most people don't want to be
549
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:52.650
dealing with poor metabolic health issues as young people. I
550
00:28:52.670 --> 00:28:55.349
think most people do genuinely want to make good choices
551
00:28:55.670 --> 00:28:59.069
lifestyle wise. They've just never been given the information. And
552
00:28:59.109 --> 00:29:03.210
if the parents don't embed that in their children, then
553
00:29:03.230 --> 00:29:05.970
you have another kind of lost generation. I'll use an example.
554
00:29:06.009 --> 00:29:09.240
So my older son is a sophomore in college and
555
00:29:09.740 --> 00:29:12.059
he has food allergies. So he has to be somewhat
556
00:29:12.099 --> 00:29:14.599
conscientious about what he's eating. And we were having a
557
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:17.420
conversation that, you know, he plays college lacrosse. He's in
558
00:29:17.460 --> 00:29:20.420
a frat. He's an engineering student. He's living his best life.
559
00:29:21.140 --> 00:29:21.240
Yeah.
560
00:29:30.589 --> 00:29:34.210
Like so bad physically that he was like, it just
561
00:29:34.289 --> 00:29:36.349
isn't worth it. He's like, I'm just starting to make
562
00:29:36.369 --> 00:29:40.180
these connections. And certainly like living at home, my husband
563
00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:43.160
and I cook real nutrient dense foods. My kids have
564
00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:47.579
an abundance of protein options. They're both very athletic, very fit.
565
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:51.119
So they can tolerate a good amount of rice or pasta.
566
00:29:51.140 --> 00:29:52.480
And the joke in our house is that they eat
567
00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:56.119
like a pound of meat along with, you know, an
568
00:29:56.279 --> 00:29:59.089
equal amount of rice because they're trying to build muscle.
569
00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:01.900
So they're spiking their insulin. But the point of why
570
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:05.660
I'm sharing this is if we're not helping our children
571
00:30:05.700 --> 00:30:08.799
learn how to cook, if we're not talking to them
572
00:30:08.859 --> 00:30:14.509
about protein and carbohydrates and unprocessed foods and hydration and
573
00:30:15.029 --> 00:30:18.450
being mindful of the other, you know, the exercise, strength training,
574
00:30:18.490 --> 00:30:21.809
all these things, then we're not setting a good example
575
00:30:21.849 --> 00:30:24.430
for them. And I think it really becomes this dominant effect.
576
00:30:24.450 --> 00:30:27.529
So I look at my kids who are both very lean,
577
00:30:27.569 --> 00:30:30.710
very athletic, very healthy. And I always say to my husband, like,
578
00:30:30.769 --> 00:30:32.849
I know we did a great job with them because
579
00:30:33.029 --> 00:30:36.170
everything that we talk about and we embrace and we
580
00:30:36.230 --> 00:30:39.230
prioritize has really been embedded in them. And the irony
581
00:30:39.259 --> 00:30:44.279
is my older son lives in an apartment with three friends.
582
00:30:44.299 --> 00:30:47.200
So there's four guys, all four of these guys, their
583
00:30:47.240 --> 00:30:50.559
moms taught them how to cook, which I love. I
584
00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:52.700
was like, this is fantastic. I mean, this is like
585
00:30:52.740 --> 00:30:55.930
a lost art because we have generations that are taught
586
00:30:55.990 --> 00:30:58.630
that they don't know how to cook. And so if
587
00:30:58.650 --> 00:31:00.009
they don't add a cook, then they need to buy
588
00:31:00.049 --> 00:31:02.529
food outside the house all the time. They need fast food.
589
00:31:02.569 --> 00:31:05.710
They need the processed stuff. And you and I were
590
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:08.779
talking before we started recording that when you travel, you
591
00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:10.519
don't even go to True Food Kitchen. You're like, oh,
592
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:12.519
forget it. I buy my own pots and pans and
593
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:15.700
I cook for myself everywhere I go. And you just
594
00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:18.970
start to understand that, you know, those habits have been
595
00:31:19.029 --> 00:31:21.809
embedded in you and they probably make a big difference
596
00:31:22.049 --> 00:31:24.609
over time being able to cook yourself as opposed to
597
00:31:24.650 --> 00:31:26.980
having someone else cook for you. I think I just
598
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:29.000
got off on a tangent, but it was not intentional.
599
00:31:29.099 --> 00:31:32.039
The tangents are the best information. That's the best part.
600
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:36.079
Here's my problem with some things. And I'm curious as
601
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:38.380
to what you think about this. Well, one of my
602
00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:41.880
big issues that I've always said is when we're going
603
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:46.480
through schooling, we don't really get taught the things that
604
00:31:46.519 --> 00:31:48.859
we need to know how to live. They don't teach
605
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:51.680
you about credit, how to balance checkbooks, how to do
606
00:31:51.700 --> 00:31:54.509
accounting and the importance of having credit. And they certainly
607
00:31:54.549 --> 00:31:57.759
don't teach us about what you just said, about the
608
00:31:57.819 --> 00:32:01.299
importance of nutrition, the different types of foods, the different
609
00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:04.240
micro and macro nutrients, which we should learn all about.
610
00:32:04.269 --> 00:32:06.490
They don't teach you how to read food labels. There's nothing.
611
00:32:06.750 --> 00:32:10.069
There's absolutely nothing. And the other thing that bothers me
612
00:32:10.269 --> 00:32:13.769
a ton is when I would always, and I stopped
613
00:32:13.789 --> 00:32:15.930
taking personal clients now because I don't have time, but
614
00:32:15.990 --> 00:32:18.970
one of the big things I would always get with parents, well,
615
00:32:19.029 --> 00:32:22.470
you know, I have to my diet because I have
616
00:32:22.509 --> 00:32:25.230
to feed the kids pizza or macaroni cheese. And my
617
00:32:25.470 --> 00:32:28.690
response was always, no, I don't know. Why are you
618
00:32:28.750 --> 00:32:29.569
feeding them that?
619
00:32:30.130 --> 00:32:30.349
Why?
620
00:32:30.769 --> 00:32:32.339
And if you are going to feed them that, why
621
00:32:32.380 --> 00:32:34.539
do you have to eat that? So there's a problem there.
622
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:36.579
One is you shouldn't be feeding them that crap. You
623
00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:39.059
should be teaching them how to eat properly when they're young.
624
00:32:39.079 --> 00:32:41.880
I'm not saying, you know, run a boot camp and
625
00:32:42.019 --> 00:32:45.200
never let them have anything. That's not ideal or smart either,
626
00:32:45.220 --> 00:32:47.880
because then that'll help actually develop bad habits later. But
627
00:32:47.900 --> 00:32:51.089
I'm saying teach them young. And you certainly don't have
628
00:32:51.130 --> 00:32:53.289
to just eat that or do that. See, I don't
629
00:32:53.430 --> 00:32:56.230
I don't fall in line or understand or grasp that
630
00:32:57.009 --> 00:33:00.109
whole mindset. So I'm wondering about, you know, especially since
631
00:33:00.130 --> 00:33:03.470
you have kids and everything, your thoughts on that. Yeah, no,
632
00:33:03.529 --> 00:33:04.230
it's funny.
633
00:33:04.369 --> 00:33:07.250
I recall, you know, my kids have traveled quite a
634
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:10.539
bit internationally and, you know, they've been to over 20
635
00:33:10.539 --> 00:33:14.160
some odd countries. And so people would always remark, oh,
636
00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:16.480
your kids don't want like the kids plate. I'm like, no.
637
00:33:16.930 --> 00:33:18.480
First of all, they're boys. They eat a lot of food.
638
00:33:18.539 --> 00:33:20.819
So the kids' plate stopped working when they were probably
639
00:33:20.859 --> 00:33:24.359
four or five. But, you know, I think that I
640
00:33:24.420 --> 00:33:27.839
never cooked two separate meals. I made it very clear, like,
641
00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:31.619
we make one meal. Now, this isn't to suggest that
642
00:33:31.660 --> 00:33:33.809
my kids hated a vegetable. I forced them to eat it.
643
00:33:33.859 --> 00:33:38.200
But in my house, there's no someone gets one set
644
00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:40.049
of food and someone gets another. And I saw a
645
00:33:40.089 --> 00:33:42.789
lot of my friends who were just incredibly accommodating of
646
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:45.819
quirky things. And I would say, you know, you're not
647
00:33:45.940 --> 00:33:49.440
instilling in your kids that, you know, it's not adult
648
00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:52.160
food and kid food, it's food. And that's kind of
649
00:33:52.529 --> 00:33:54.660
what should be conveyed. Like my kids have, when they've
650
00:33:54.680 --> 00:33:57.069
traveled the world, they've had all different kinds of foods.
651
00:33:57.170 --> 00:34:00.049
And I think they've been really open-minded. And I'm proud
652
00:34:00.069 --> 00:34:03.670
of that because I think that life is far more
653
00:34:03.750 --> 00:34:07.950
interesting when our kids eat more than chicken fingers and
654
00:34:07.990 --> 00:34:12.630
French fries. Now, I'm sure, Dylan, honestly, if my husband
655
00:34:12.670 --> 00:34:16.210
bought a bag of chicken fingers right now, it would
656
00:34:16.230 --> 00:34:19.579
be gone and gone immediately because that would be a treat.
657
00:34:20.179 --> 00:34:23.460
But with that being said, I think that in many ways,
658
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:29.139
we facilitate kids being really picky and only choosing to
659
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:33.070
have three foods or five foods or two foods that
660
00:34:33.090 --> 00:34:35.409
they refuse to eat. I've had friends say, you know,
661
00:34:35.429 --> 00:34:37.489
my kid will only eat the chicken fingers and french fries.
662
00:34:37.510 --> 00:34:40.539
And I was like, well, When your kid gets hungry enough,
663
00:34:40.579 --> 00:34:41.400
they'll eat more than that.
664
00:34:42.260 --> 00:34:42.780
Exactly.
665
00:34:42.860 --> 00:34:45.739
And you are the parent. And I say this lovingly.
666
00:34:45.949 --> 00:34:48.869
You are the parent. Just remember that. Like, yes, your
667
00:34:48.889 --> 00:34:50.889
kids can be willful. I have a second child who's
668
00:34:50.949 --> 00:34:54.590
super willful. Older son, a little less willful. One is
669
00:34:54.630 --> 00:34:58.449
a little more food adventurous than the other. But we
670
00:34:58.489 --> 00:35:00.230
didn't accommodate.
671
00:35:01.530 --> 00:35:01.829
Much.
672
00:35:02.170 --> 00:35:04.690
Like, I have one child who prefers raw fish, not
673
00:35:04.730 --> 00:35:07.280
cooked fish. And I don't make a big deal about that.
674
00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:10.000
I'm just like, Fine. Preferences over vegetables.
675
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:10.739
Fine.
676
00:35:10.860 --> 00:35:12.500
You know, I'd give them a couple options. I say,
677
00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:15.179
what would you like tonight? Here's three options. Pick one.
678
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:18.219
You're going to have one on your plate. It's not
679
00:35:18.260 --> 00:35:20.280
a question of if it's a question of pick one
680
00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:23.780
or I will pick it for you. So that seemed
681
00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:26.420
to work out really well. But I think even down
682
00:35:26.440 --> 00:35:29.340
to when I worked part time as an MP, when
683
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:31.820
the boys were young and the wonderful woman who took
684
00:35:31.860 --> 00:35:35.710
care of them in my absence made whole cooked food
685
00:35:35.869 --> 00:35:39.159
like she didn't skimp. There was no junky stuff. She
686
00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:42.510
didn't cook hot dogs and beans. And for anyone who
687
00:35:42.530 --> 00:35:44.949
loves hot dogs, I'm just using that as an example.
688
00:35:45.010 --> 00:35:48.190
But she would make real food for them. And so
689
00:35:48.389 --> 00:35:52.429
like the reinforcement consistently was we eat real food. We
690
00:35:52.469 --> 00:35:54.579
eat the same food as mom and dad. We don't
691
00:35:54.619 --> 00:35:58.039
get special food. And occasionally you might have a chicken nugget,
692
00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:00.380
but that's like a rarity. But when we would go
693
00:36:00.460 --> 00:36:02.460
out to eat, my kids generally did not eat off
694
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:04.409
the kids menu. They would eat off the regular menu.
695
00:36:04.429 --> 00:36:06.289
They'd have the steak. They'd have the chicken. They'd have
696
00:36:06.309 --> 00:36:08.599
a piece of fish. Maybe not the kid who doesn't
697
00:36:08.619 --> 00:36:11.659
like the cooked fish, but the point being they were
698
00:36:11.699 --> 00:36:14.260
fairly food adventurous because we set that expectation.
699
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:20.369
Once you set like routines of eating good and then
700
00:36:20.510 --> 00:36:22.730
you get used to it, you can't live without the
701
00:36:22.769 --> 00:36:25.269
food you're eating. And I have a perfect testament to
702
00:36:25.309 --> 00:36:28.949
that because the foods that I eat now, I can't
703
00:36:29.010 --> 00:36:31.550
go without. I would have told you before I wouldn't
704
00:36:31.659 --> 00:36:34.750
touch or I didn't like without even trying them. You know,
705
00:36:34.829 --> 00:36:36.840
and it's like the whole list of my top five
706
00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:39.460
foods that I can't live without. Even just a few
707
00:36:39.500 --> 00:36:42.500
years ago, I wouldn't even touch them. And it's it's
708
00:36:42.579 --> 00:36:46.000
all about developing the habit. And of course, one, you're
709
00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:48.429
the parent, you know, so the kid shouldn't be running
710
00:36:48.449 --> 00:36:50.090
the house. But two, if that's all you're giving them,
711
00:36:50.110 --> 00:36:52.829
of course, that's all they're going to want. Why wouldn't they?
712
00:36:53.150 --> 00:36:57.070
The problem is, as you know, and. as you age, especially,
713
00:36:57.150 --> 00:36:59.829
those foods, they sound great, they smell great, but as
714
00:36:59.869 --> 00:37:01.889
soon as you eat them within five or 10 minutes,
715
00:37:02.030 --> 00:37:04.429
it's like the night after you drank, oh, I wish
716
00:37:04.489 --> 00:37:06.110
I wouldn't have done that. You know what I mean?
717
00:37:06.260 --> 00:37:07.920
And the same with the meal. You wish you wouldn't
718
00:37:07.940 --> 00:37:09.480
have done it because you feel horrible.
719
00:37:10.019 --> 00:37:11.639
Well, and not to mention the fact, I mean, the
720
00:37:11.719 --> 00:37:15.239
ultra-processed foods trick your brain into thinking you haven't eaten
721
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:17.699
as much as you have. You know, anywhere from 500
722
00:37:17.699 --> 00:37:22.340
to 1,000 additional calories you're consuming per day. Right. You know,
723
00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:25.320
you wonder how we end up having poor metabolic health.
724
00:37:26.789 --> 00:37:30.329
it's not helped by, you know, making food choices. And
725
00:37:30.369 --> 00:37:32.949
it's not to suggest like when I travel, generally I'll
726
00:37:32.989 --> 00:37:36.380
either fast or I can make a, jokingly, I can
727
00:37:36.409 --> 00:37:38.929
put together a makeshift meal of, you know, beef jerky,
728
00:37:38.989 --> 00:37:42.139
salted macadamia nuts or salted pistachios. And maybe one other
729
00:37:42.179 --> 00:37:45.519
thing like a hard boiled egg or a piece of cheese.
730
00:37:45.940 --> 00:37:48.619
I mean, I can make a makeshift, I'm starving meal,
731
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:53.380
but it's not glamorous, but I can do it. But
732
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:55.889
I think for a lot of people, It's easier to
733
00:37:55.929 --> 00:37:58.090
say it's too hard. So I'll just eat the burger
734
00:37:58.150 --> 00:38:02.199
like the, you know, the burger with 95 pieces of
735
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:06.019
bread on it and crappy American cheese and everything else.
736
00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:09.280
It's just about having the desire to take care of yourself.
737
00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:11.800
You know, I don't think I told you this, but
738
00:38:11.900 --> 00:38:14.739
every single event I go to, I have a set
739
00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:17.860
time and it's normally about two o'clock where I don't
740
00:38:17.900 --> 00:38:20.179
take anything from two to at least three because I'm
741
00:38:20.300 --> 00:38:22.480
leaving and I'm going home to cook and then I'm
742
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:26.440
coming back. And that, yeah, I block it off and I, I,
743
00:38:26.519 --> 00:38:28.840
that's just, that's the way it's going to be. And
744
00:38:28.900 --> 00:38:30.440
I don't care where I'm at or what I'm doing,
745
00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:32.719
but you know, you have to, you have to have
746
00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:35.420
that within you and the want. And to me, it's like,
747
00:38:35.460 --> 00:38:39.760
that is a priority, you know? And I think. Priority
748
00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:42.260
number one, well, for me is always God, but then
749
00:38:42.300 --> 00:38:44.559
it should be your health and taking care of yourself.
750
00:38:44.619 --> 00:38:47.260
So what you're eating, what you're doing, if you're moving,
751
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:49.000
I don't care if you're traveling or not, get up
752
00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:51.760
earlier and go walk. It doesn't matter. I don't like
753
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:55.750
excuses because I know, you know, through things that I've
754
00:38:55.849 --> 00:38:57.409
encountered and been through in my life, you can do
755
00:38:57.429 --> 00:38:59.230
whatever the hell you want if it's a priority.
756
00:38:59.250 --> 00:39:00.630
Absolutely.
757
00:39:01.050 --> 00:39:01.510
Absolutely.
758
00:39:01.530 --> 00:39:05.150
I was saying to an earlier podcast guest that I
759
00:39:05.170 --> 00:39:09.260
could choose to stand while I'm podcasting virtually. But I
760
00:39:09.340 --> 00:39:12.059
actually sit because it allows me to stay really focused.
761
00:39:12.179 --> 00:39:15.460
But when I'm done podcasting, what do I do? I said,
762
00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:18.440
in my part of my state, there are not many basements.
763
00:39:18.519 --> 00:39:21.409
So everyone builds up. So we have a three-story house
764
00:39:21.449 --> 00:39:24.409
that goes up, very tall. And I said, I'll walk
765
00:39:24.469 --> 00:39:26.050
up and down the stairs a few times just to
766
00:39:26.070 --> 00:39:27.210
kind of, you know, clear my head.
767
00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:27.860
Take that one.
768
00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:29.719
I have three dogs, take one of the dogs for
769
00:39:29.739 --> 00:39:32.900
a walk. It's really important to not just put those
770
00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:35.980
blinders on and convince yourself that movement's not important. It's
771
00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:39.980
important for so many things, not just digestion, not just
772
00:39:40.460 --> 00:39:44.739
skeletal muscle movement, brain health. And I think people make
773
00:39:44.780 --> 00:39:47.679
things far too complicated. If I'm traveling, Dylan, and I
774
00:39:47.900 --> 00:39:50.400
can't get it like a regular workout in, I'll just
775
00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:52.289
walk around outside. Like I'm the first one to put
776
00:39:52.329 --> 00:39:55.250
my shoes on and I'll have my exercise clothes on.
777
00:39:55.389 --> 00:39:58.230
And I just, you know, that's why that one hotel
778
00:39:58.289 --> 00:40:00.769
in LA is perfect because there's a mall around the corner.
779
00:40:01.510 --> 00:40:04.090
And I'm not, it's an outside mall because it's California,
780
00:40:04.139 --> 00:40:06.719
but I'll just do a couple loops inside there. I
781
00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:09.460
can get a couple miles in just walking around. I'm like, okay,
782
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:13.380
I'm outside in the sunshine. I'm not doing any shopping.
783
00:40:13.539 --> 00:40:15.940
I'm admiring all the crazy things I see. I just
784
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:19.789
put my sunglasses on and I'm moving my body, which
785
00:40:20.050 --> 00:40:23.210
I think we sometimes forget that just something as simple
786
00:40:23.269 --> 00:40:25.909
as movement in general is really important for our health.
787
00:40:26.570 --> 00:40:28.550
You know what my problem is, is I go on
788
00:40:28.590 --> 00:40:31.699
these trips and I have to Those normally, cause I
789
00:40:31.739 --> 00:40:34.039
don't really rest very much. I kind of over-train a
790
00:40:34.059 --> 00:40:35.900
little bit. So those days I just get up and
791
00:40:35.940 --> 00:40:39.719
go walk. Well, the other day we were in, we
792
00:40:39.739 --> 00:40:42.570
were in Pasadena and I started walking and I had
793
00:40:42.610 --> 00:40:44.610
to be home at a certain time. And Queenie's like,
794
00:40:44.650 --> 00:40:46.530
where are you? And I'm like, shit, I don't know.
795
00:40:46.590 --> 00:40:49.210
I'm lost. You know, cause I just started walking and
796
00:40:49.289 --> 00:40:50.929
I was talking to my mom on the phone and
797
00:40:50.949 --> 00:40:52.809
then I started to do some prayers. And before I
798
00:40:52.849 --> 00:40:55.909
knew it, I was like looking around and I thought, okay,
799
00:40:55.949 --> 00:40:57.880
that's not the right street. That's not the right street.
800
00:40:57.900 --> 00:41:00.590
And just like, oh shit, you know, and started to
801
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:03.579
run home. But okay, so, you know, you and I
802
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:07.760
have interviewed a lot of similar people. You've interviewed far
803
00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:09.940
more than I have, but we have had some similar people.
804
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:13.000
And you brought up a couple things earlier that I
805
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:14.539
want to touch on that are in your book that
806
00:41:14.579 --> 00:41:16.320
I just kind of learned about. And I'm going to
807
00:41:16.340 --> 00:41:18.079
throw a couple names out and you're probably going to
808
00:41:18.099 --> 00:41:22.579
smile and say, yes, yes. But Dr. William Lee, Dr.
809
00:41:22.619 --> 00:41:26.840
Jeffrey Bland, Colleen Cutcliffe, these three I just spoke with recently.
810
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:30.159
And so these three to me were the ones that
811
00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:34.920
made the most sense that actually got deep into the gut,
812
00:41:34.980 --> 00:41:38.239
the microbiome, where they actually explained things that didn't just
813
00:41:38.300 --> 00:41:41.019
tell me, oh, the gut is important and it controls
814
00:41:41.059 --> 00:41:43.460
everything or this. They actually broke it down for me.
815
00:41:43.480 --> 00:41:45.699
And one of the things that you said that you
816
00:41:45.739 --> 00:41:48.659
wrote about that I wasn't versed on was about the
817
00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:52.260
immune system that I really gained a lot from those
818
00:41:52.340 --> 00:41:55.599
three individuals. And that's where I I got the more
819
00:41:55.699 --> 00:41:59.389
intricate side of of understanding the importance of microbiome and
820
00:41:59.429 --> 00:42:03.050
the relation it had to our overall health in terms
821
00:42:03.110 --> 00:42:05.730
of why are we getting sick so easy? You know,
822
00:42:05.869 --> 00:42:09.429
and why do we not recover well from illness or sickness?
823
00:42:09.489 --> 00:42:12.530
Why is this lingering? So could you touch on that?
824
00:42:12.610 --> 00:42:14.289
Because I know it's a big part of your book,
825
00:42:14.769 --> 00:42:16.710
and I'd really love to get some insight from you
826
00:42:16.789 --> 00:42:17.050
on that.
827
00:42:17.579 --> 00:42:20.219
Yeah, those are three great guests. Colleen and I were
828
00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:22.179
both at Hopkins at the same time, although we did
829
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:26.269
not know each other. And William is brilliant, as is Jeff,
830
00:42:26.550 --> 00:42:31.150
and just such nice down-to-earth clinicians and researchers. So the
831
00:42:31.170 --> 00:42:33.809
immune system, as I mentioned, ages right along with us.
832
00:42:33.849 --> 00:42:36.760
But what's interesting is that with this decline in estrogen,
833
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:41.480
we start seeing immune system devolution, if you will. So
834
00:42:41.619 --> 00:42:47.139
I mentioned that the immune system, immunosenescence, inflammation, all kind
835
00:42:47.179 --> 00:42:50.579
of correlates with these decline in hormones. And estrogen and
836
00:42:50.619 --> 00:42:54.590
the immune system are intricately intertwined with one another. As
837
00:42:54.699 --> 00:42:57.969
estrogen declines, and I think everyone acknowledges that estrogen's an
838
00:42:58.010 --> 00:43:00.969
important hormone, actually for men and for women, we start
839
00:43:01.010 --> 00:43:03.809
seeing more leaky gut. If you think about the small
840
00:43:03.849 --> 00:43:06.469
intestinal lining, it's one cell layer thick. And if you
841
00:43:06.489 --> 00:43:09.789
think about a brick and mortar analogy, estrogen is the
842
00:43:09.829 --> 00:43:12.989
mortar and the bricks. And as estrogen's declining, we start
843
00:43:13.010 --> 00:43:16.230
seeing more tight junction opening and we will leak food
844
00:43:16.269 --> 00:43:19.090
particles into the bloodstream, we'll trigger an immune response. So
845
00:43:19.110 --> 00:43:21.230
this is when women will say, gosh, foods I used
846
00:43:21.250 --> 00:43:23.369
to eat just don't land the same way with me.
847
00:43:23.389 --> 00:43:27.170
I'm suddenly sensitive to dairy. Or they get provocation of
848
00:43:27.230 --> 00:43:30.170
histamine responses, and they suddenly start developing rashes or even
849
00:43:30.210 --> 00:43:33.909
allergic reactions to foods that had otherwise always been tolerated.
850
00:43:34.650 --> 00:43:37.510
There's something called the thymus gland, and it's kind of,
851
00:43:37.769 --> 00:43:39.469
by the time we get to be adults, it's kind
852
00:43:39.510 --> 00:43:42.949
of a fatty blob of tissue. But what's interesting is,
853
00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:46.059
In the immune system, we have these T helper cells.
854
00:43:46.119 --> 00:43:48.079
We have a T helper one and T helper two.
855
00:43:48.659 --> 00:43:50.659
And what happens to women in the setting of a
856
00:43:50.699 --> 00:43:55.639
decline in estrogen in particular, we start seeing more opportunistic infection.
857
00:43:56.179 --> 00:43:59.050
We have less of a reaction to vaccine. So when
858
00:43:59.070 --> 00:44:01.469
you go to CVS and they offer you a shingles vaccine,
859
00:44:01.489 --> 00:44:05.510
a flu vaccine and a pneumonia vaccine, number one, they're
860
00:44:05.650 --> 00:44:08.590
acknowledging that as you are aging, you are more susceptible
861
00:44:08.650 --> 00:44:11.260
to these things. But it's also acknowledging that we just
862
00:44:11.360 --> 00:44:14.559
have an immune system as women that is more provoked
863
00:44:14.659 --> 00:44:17.519
in women. Women are four to five times more likely
864
00:44:17.559 --> 00:44:23.710
to develop autoimmune conditions in middle age. So things like celiac, rheumatoid, Hashimoto's.
865
00:44:24.489 --> 00:44:26.789
When I finished my medical training, I was talking to
866
00:44:26.809 --> 00:44:29.039
a colleague recently. I said, what were there, like 20,
867
00:44:29.019 --> 00:44:32.110
30 diagnoses? That's what we knew of. Now there's over 100,
868
00:44:32.110 --> 00:44:36.039
including things like long-haul COVID and chronic Lyme. So autoimmune
869
00:44:36.059 --> 00:44:38.400
conditions in women will start seeing an uptick. And I
870
00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:41.119
remind women all the time that once you have one
871
00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:44.760
autoimmune condition, you're likely to have more. And so the
872
00:44:44.780 --> 00:44:48.210
immune system is there to protect us. We have kind
873
00:44:48.230 --> 00:44:50.789
of a basic immune system. You know, the barriers like
874
00:44:50.989 --> 00:44:53.590
cilia in our nose, our skin is designed to be
875
00:44:53.630 --> 00:44:56.630
a barrier. And then there's a more targeted immune system
876
00:44:56.650 --> 00:45:00.769
that develops antibodies is more sophisticated. Both of them start
877
00:45:00.809 --> 00:45:03.769
to change as we are navigating this decline in hormones.
878
00:45:04.250 --> 00:45:07.110
Women may see things like the autoimmune condition, leaky gut,
879
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:11.079
as their microbiome and their vaginal, they may have more
880
00:45:11.099 --> 00:45:15.179
urinary tract infections. They may have painful sex, pelvic floor issues.
881
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:17.460
They may be getting up at night more often to pee.
882
00:45:18.139 --> 00:45:18.800
Not a fun thing.
883
00:45:18.820 --> 00:45:21.300
That can also happen to men, but obviously it can
884
00:45:21.340 --> 00:45:24.019
be from an enlarged prostate. But it becomes this kind
885
00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:27.710
of domino effect. The immune system's there to protect us.
886
00:45:28.369 --> 00:45:32.079
It starts working a bit less effectively. We can't mount
887
00:45:32.119 --> 00:45:34.260
the same immune response that we did when we were younger.
888
00:45:34.460 --> 00:45:37.000
We become less responsive to vaccines. We start seeing more
889
00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:41.559
autoimmune conditions. As I mentioned, not an exhaustive list, but
890
00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:43.900
there are quite a few. And what I find for
891
00:45:43.940 --> 00:45:47.389
a lot of women, the first sign that something is
892
00:45:47.570 --> 00:45:51.710
changing in their digestive system is the bloating, the alterations
893
00:45:51.769 --> 00:45:54.909
in bowel habits, the feeling like they have more reflux,
894
00:45:54.949 --> 00:45:57.530
more heartburn. And that can all be a sign of
895
00:45:58.070 --> 00:46:00.829
alterations in the immune system, along with some other changes
896
00:46:00.869 --> 00:46:03.929
that happen with what I refer to as digestive fire.
897
00:46:03.969 --> 00:46:05.820
And I'm sure we'll probably talk about what that is.
898
00:46:06.659 --> 00:46:10.860
Yeah. I mean, there's a lot there that goes on.
899
00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:14.559
How prevalent of a problem do you think this is
900
00:46:14.659 --> 00:46:18.099
for women at this stage of life and then just
901
00:46:18.260 --> 00:46:21.489
women or men in general, but specifically at this stage
902
00:46:21.510 --> 00:46:24.110
of life, because as time has gone on, we've actually
903
00:46:24.150 --> 00:46:27.110
accumulated and developed this into a much bigger problem. And
904
00:46:27.150 --> 00:46:29.610
if it's not addressed, then it turns into a full
905
00:46:29.650 --> 00:46:30.590
blown disaster.
906
00:46:31.070 --> 00:46:33.659
Yeah, I mean, I think there's many things. I always
907
00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:36.380
say perimenopause is a litmus test for how well we
908
00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:41.059
take care of ourselves, because irrespective of how we grow up,
909
00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:43.679
we get away with a lot in our teens, 20s
910
00:46:43.739 --> 00:46:48.289
and 30s. As hormones start declining, neurotransmitters start shifting, our
911
00:46:48.869 --> 00:46:53.110
coping skills that were at one point adaptive can become maladaptive,
912
00:46:53.170 --> 00:46:58.280
meaning that not enough sleep, the overexercising, the too low
913
00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:02.679
carbohydrate or food restriction, those things can start to backfire.
914
00:47:02.719 --> 00:47:06.780
In fact, oftentimes I'm telling women do less, do less,
915
00:47:07.019 --> 00:47:10.760
not more, because our standard kind of prevailing thought is,
916
00:47:11.480 --> 00:47:13.500
If I start gaining weight in middle age, I just
917
00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:16.099
need to eat less and exercise more. I just need
918
00:47:16.119 --> 00:47:19.380
to fast more and eat less carbohydrate because carbohydrates must
919
00:47:19.420 --> 00:47:22.269
be the problem. And it's helping them understand that as
920
00:47:22.329 --> 00:47:25.969
our physiology is changing, less skeletal muscle mass, decline in estrogen,
921
00:47:26.010 --> 00:47:30.090
decline in progesterone, decline in testosterone. Not in every person.
922
00:47:30.469 --> 00:47:34.260
Some women, about 25% still make enough testosterone. But with
923
00:47:34.300 --> 00:47:38.539
those alterations, changes in the immune system, more susceptibility to stress.
924
00:47:38.579 --> 00:47:40.929
Like one thing about women in middle age is that
925
00:47:41.070 --> 00:47:43.590
what you can get away with in terms of hormetic
926
00:47:43.630 --> 00:47:47.590
stress or just stress of life starts to shift. So
927
00:47:47.670 --> 00:47:50.090
you don't cope quite as well when you're not sleeping
928
00:47:50.170 --> 00:47:52.530
seven to eight hours a night. You don't cope quite
929
00:47:52.570 --> 00:47:55.119
as well with this really intense exercise. So I usually
930
00:47:55.179 --> 00:47:59.199
use the example of Orange Theory Fitness or CrossFit. If
931
00:47:59.239 --> 00:48:01.019
you think you can do that six days a week
932
00:48:01.059 --> 00:48:03.780
with no recovery... you're going to crash and burn in
933
00:48:03.800 --> 00:48:06.389
middle age. I think for a lot of women, maybe
934
00:48:06.429 --> 00:48:08.849
they were doing a little bit of intermittent fasting at
935
00:48:08.929 --> 00:48:11.650
certain times during their cycle. All of a sudden, like
936
00:48:11.690 --> 00:48:15.429
compressing their feeding window means they can't get enough protein in.
937
00:48:15.449 --> 00:48:17.710
If they can't get enough protein in and they're not
938
00:48:17.829 --> 00:48:21.949
lifting regularly, they're going to get this unwinding of skeletal muscle.
939
00:48:22.170 --> 00:48:25.429
And so sarcopenia is a real issue. That also makes
940
00:48:25.489 --> 00:48:29.280
us lose insulin sensitivities. Metabolic health piece, this weight loss
941
00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:33.250
resistance piece is never just one issue. It is generally
942
00:48:33.329 --> 00:48:36.610
multiple issues that are contributing. Not to mention the fact,
943
00:48:37.070 --> 00:48:39.719
as we're getting older, we produce less stomach acid. Stomach
944
00:48:39.820 --> 00:48:42.340
acid is what helps break protein down into amino acids
945
00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:45.360
so it can be absorbed. We generally also have less
946
00:48:45.400 --> 00:48:48.500
digestive enzymes, so we're not breaking down protein, fat, carbs,
947
00:48:48.539 --> 00:48:51.340
so not able to absorb as much across that small
948
00:48:51.389 --> 00:48:54.809
intestinal lining. And then as estrogen is declining, this is
949
00:48:54.829 --> 00:49:10.110
kind of one of those nerdy things, as estrogen Mm-hmm.
950
00:49:22.690 --> 00:49:28.699
down and emulsify fats and multiple angles of what can
951
00:49:28.760 --> 00:49:33.289
impact digestion and how they feel. And there's certainly lots of,
952
00:49:33.300 --> 00:49:35.340
you know, tips and tricks that I talk about in
953
00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:37.719
the menopause gut. But I think for a lot of individuals,
954
00:49:38.019 --> 00:49:41.619
they're surprised. They're like, perimenopause snuck up on me and
955
00:49:41.719 --> 00:49:44.420
no one told me that bloating was normal. Like, I
956
00:49:44.440 --> 00:49:46.559
think that might've been my first symptom. And I was like,
957
00:49:46.639 --> 00:49:48.460
what is this? You know, I wake up with a
958
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:50.920
flat stomach and I go to bed looking six months pregnant.
959
00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:54.360
And there's no woman out there who wants to look
960
00:49:54.409 --> 00:49:57.409
six months pregnant when they're not pregnant. Like, let's be
961
00:49:57.449 --> 00:49:59.750
very clear. You know, it's like, what is going on
962
00:49:59.789 --> 00:50:02.170
with my body? So I think in a lot of
963
00:50:02.210 --> 00:50:05.329
different ways, women start to feel like their body is
964
00:50:05.369 --> 00:50:07.530
working against them and not for them.
965
00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:12.389
You said something there, and it's very natural to assume
966
00:50:12.469 --> 00:50:17.190
to just start training when you see anything wrong, especially
967
00:50:17.269 --> 00:50:19.449
somebody like me. And there was a lot of people
968
00:50:19.510 --> 00:50:21.590
out there like that, that that's just the first answer.
969
00:50:21.800 --> 00:50:25.300
And you brought up overtraining. So I would love to
970
00:50:25.380 --> 00:50:30.300
get into the dangers of overtraining, what problems that can
971
00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:33.599
cause and how that can have an adverse effect on
972
00:50:33.639 --> 00:50:34.780
what you're actually hoping for.
973
00:50:35.320 --> 00:50:38.829
Yeah, I mean, I think it is... human nature that
974
00:50:39.989 --> 00:50:43.150
the solution to the problem is more work, right? I mean,
975
00:50:43.170 --> 00:50:45.190
I think that's human nature. I certainly was guilty of
976
00:50:45.250 --> 00:50:47.809
this in perimenopause. I was like, I'm weight loss, or
977
00:50:47.849 --> 00:50:49.090
is it I just have to work out harder?
978
00:50:49.630 --> 00:50:49.869
Right.
979
00:50:50.530 --> 00:50:54.989
What people need to understand is that exercise is one
980
00:50:55.030 --> 00:50:58.380
of many types of hormetic stress, beneficial stress in the
981
00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:01.780
right amount at the right time. So for these women
982
00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:05.260
in perimenopause in particular, you know, they start gaining weight,
983
00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:08.239
You know, they're frustrated. They're like, okay, I just need
984
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:09.909
to get up earlier for the gym and work out
985
00:51:09.989 --> 00:51:11.869
twice as hard as I did before. And then I'm
986
00:51:11.889 --> 00:51:15.530
going to intermittent fast and not eat for six hours
987
00:51:15.630 --> 00:51:18.710
after I finished exercising. And then by the time I
988
00:51:18.750 --> 00:51:20.710
get home, I can't settle down. So I'm not getting
989
00:51:20.750 --> 00:51:24.869
enough sleep. It's really important to understand that exercise is
990
00:51:24.909 --> 00:51:30.539
a hormetic stress. So if you are really tired after exercise,
991
00:51:30.579 --> 00:51:32.639
that's a sign you might be overtraining. If you don't
992
00:51:32.679 --> 00:51:34.699
recover from an injury, that might be a sign you're
993
00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:36.969
not training. If you're still getting a menstrual cycle and
994
00:51:37.010 --> 00:51:39.079
you stop getting a menstrual cycle, that might be a
995
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:44.440
sign you're not, you're overtraining. I think persistent soreness, especially
996
00:51:44.659 --> 00:51:47.260
persistent fatigue, it could also be signs of other things.
997
00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:50.219
But one tough workout is one thing. One tough workout
998
00:51:50.260 --> 00:51:52.550
that you never seem to recover from, you're getting sick
999
00:51:52.590 --> 00:51:56.590
more often. But we know if you're overtaxing your immune system,
1000
00:51:57.190 --> 00:52:01.269
that's always my tell. Throughout this book launch timeline, that
1001
00:52:01.309 --> 00:52:02.880
was always my tell. I would tell my team, oh
1002
00:52:02.889 --> 00:52:05.510
my God, I'm losing my voice again. And they're like, oh,
1003
00:52:05.570 --> 00:52:08.269
you need to make sure that you do more self-care
1004
00:52:08.329 --> 00:52:09.989
and get to bed earlier. But I think for a
1005
00:52:10.030 --> 00:52:12.869
lot of women, we've been conditioned to believe that when
1006
00:52:12.889 --> 00:52:16.969
we don't have the output that we want, and generally
1007
00:52:16.989 --> 00:52:19.989
that's changes in body composition or weight loss, the solution
1008
00:52:20.030 --> 00:52:22.300
is to work harder. And I'm here to tell you,
1009
00:52:22.409 --> 00:52:27.159
oftentimes it's to do less. Less fasting, less exercise, more sleep,
1010
00:52:27.340 --> 00:52:30.000
more recovery. And that can be a little bit of
1011
00:52:30.039 --> 00:52:33.619
a mind screw for women because... That is not what
1012
00:52:33.639 --> 00:52:36.340
we've been conditioned to believe. And I think there's a
1013
00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:41.949
very fine line between relative energy deficiency or rents, which
1014
00:52:41.969 --> 00:52:43.289
I think there are a lot of women out there
1015
00:52:43.329 --> 00:52:45.889
that never properly fuel their bodies. So you're not going
1016
00:52:45.909 --> 00:52:48.829
to get the recovery that someone else is getting because
1017
00:52:48.849 --> 00:52:52.610
they're eating the proper macros. They're being conscientious about their protein.
1018
00:52:52.969 --> 00:52:55.989
They're being conscientious about their fiber. They're being conscientious about
1019
00:52:56.010 --> 00:52:59.500
their carbohydrate intake. Versus someone that's like, oh, I've got
1020
00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:01.380
a four hour feeding window and I just had really,
1021
00:53:01.420 --> 00:53:04.179
really intense exercise the last three days. And I'm going
1022
00:53:04.199 --> 00:53:06.239
to eat in this super compressed feeding window. So maybe
1023
00:53:06.260 --> 00:53:10.329
I'll eat one meal and that'll be my recovery. That
1024
00:53:10.369 --> 00:53:13.550
doesn't work. No. And so more often than not, I'm
1025
00:53:13.610 --> 00:53:18.050
encouraging women to stop overtraining, to listen to their bodies
1026
00:53:18.110 --> 00:53:21.090
like the me from 10 years ago, maybe 12 years ago.
1027
00:53:23.230 --> 00:53:25.230
was up at four o'clock in the morning. I would
1028
00:53:25.269 --> 00:53:28.369
take really intense conditioning classes. I would shower at the gym,
1029
00:53:29.010 --> 00:53:30.769
race home to get my kids on the bus, get
1030
00:53:30.789 --> 00:53:32.130
them ready, get them on the bus. And I would
1031
00:53:32.170 --> 00:53:34.449
go to the hospital. And that was my life for
1032
00:53:34.469 --> 00:53:36.429
a long time. I can't think of something I'd want
1033
00:53:36.449 --> 00:53:38.130
to do less now. I would love to go back
1034
00:53:38.210 --> 00:53:40.539
and be mom for little kids for.
1035
00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:41.340
A couple of days.
1036
00:53:41.409 --> 00:53:44.639
But the point of what I'm making is I got
1037
00:53:44.699 --> 00:53:47.960
up at four o'clock in the morning. It didn't matter
1038
00:53:47.980 --> 00:53:49.780
what time I went to bed. It didn't matter if
1039
00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:51.889
I slept well or not. I was still waking up.
1040
00:53:52.849 --> 00:53:55.650
And so oftentimes the things I tell women that they
1041
00:53:55.730 --> 00:53:57.550
need to stop are things I had done myself. So
1042
00:53:57.650 --> 00:54:01.630
I understand what it's like to hear someone say, I
1043
00:54:01.650 --> 00:54:02.710
think you need to do less.
1044
00:54:04.289 --> 00:54:07.929
It's nice to hear. It's hard to comprehend. And especially
1045
00:54:07.989 --> 00:54:09.949
as you get older, a lot of times less is more.
1046
00:54:09.969 --> 00:54:12.860
It's more the quality of how you do it and
1047
00:54:12.909 --> 00:54:14.880
what you do it and the way that you do it.
1048
00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:17.619
It's just like anything else, man. It's like the athlete
1049
00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:21.280
that they have to train smarter. They got to play smarter.
1050
00:54:21.300 --> 00:54:24.050
You got to lift smarter. I run into this all
1051
00:54:24.090 --> 00:54:26.590
the time where, oh, you've got to lift heavy weights
1052
00:54:26.610 --> 00:54:28.349
all the time. And I always tell people, what's the
1053
00:54:28.409 --> 00:54:30.409
point in lifting heavy weights all the time if you're
1054
00:54:30.429 --> 00:54:32.179
always injured? Because you're going to get injured as you
1055
00:54:32.199 --> 00:54:37.059
get older. It's inevitable. I would rather lift consistently and,
1056
00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:40.519
you know, I'd say, you know, good hard workout, not
1057
00:54:40.659 --> 00:54:44.739
crazy or anything, but be able to do it. I mean, hey,
1058
00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:47.530
I lifted so heavy today and now I'm screwed up
1059
00:54:47.590 --> 00:54:50.010
for three weeks. I mean, you know, it kind of
1060
00:54:50.050 --> 00:54:53.420
defeats the purpose. So it's just... I think a lot
1061
00:54:53.460 --> 00:54:55.840
of it is so much up here in all of us,
1062
00:54:56.019 --> 00:54:58.659
even us that do this or talk about it. It's
1063
00:54:58.719 --> 00:55:02.840
not easy. You know this about me as my background
1064
00:55:02.900 --> 00:55:06.980
is a lot in hormones. And so I really have
1065
00:55:07.139 --> 00:55:11.800
a knack for understanding what women go through, but also
1066
00:55:11.860 --> 00:55:16.429
don't understand. And I think that women... are always going
1067
00:55:16.449 --> 00:55:17.750
to be a little bit more in tune with their
1068
00:55:17.769 --> 00:55:20.289
bodies than men because they go through so much more.
1069
00:55:20.309 --> 00:55:23.250
So you kind of have to be, it's not, it just,
1070
00:55:23.429 --> 00:55:25.469
it's just the way it is. And not that men
1071
00:55:25.570 --> 00:55:28.800
aren't thoroughly in tune because we are, but you guys have,
1072
00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:32.559
it's like quadruple the amount of stuff. And especially as
1073
00:55:32.579 --> 00:55:36.460
you get older. So here's my, my wonder and my
1074
00:55:36.500 --> 00:55:39.590
question to you, because as I've really gotten more versed
1075
00:55:39.619 --> 00:55:42.030
in this and talked with more experts and experienced more
1076
00:55:42.690 --> 00:55:46.780
that the whole testosterone aspect with women is, becoming more
1077
00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:50.699
widely recognized as like one of the biggest issues during menopause.
1078
00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:54.599
And of course, progesterone and estrogen balance is there. But
1079
00:55:54.659 --> 00:55:58.420
I think part of it is a lack of understanding
1080
00:55:58.699 --> 00:56:01.820
why you need it or what it is, because everybody
1081
00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:04.460
just thinks it's a male thing, just like men don't
1082
00:56:04.599 --> 00:56:10.070
often understand unless they're bodybuilders, the importance of estrogen. But
1083
00:56:10.130 --> 00:56:12.469
I think too, that women are kind of scared of it.
1084
00:56:12.530 --> 00:56:14.670
I'm fairly sure of that because they have a one
1085
00:56:15.110 --> 00:56:18.130
track thought of, well, that's going to make me big
1086
00:56:18.170 --> 00:56:20.329
or give me make me talk like a man or,
1087
00:56:20.409 --> 00:56:24.309
you know, whatever. But could you speak on on why
1088
00:56:24.989 --> 00:56:28.449
that it hits women so hard and to how big
1089
00:56:28.469 --> 00:56:31.750
of a problem this is and why aren't more women
1090
00:56:31.849 --> 00:56:33.559
either in tune with it or checking it?
1091
00:56:34.050 --> 00:56:36.849
Yeah, I mean, I think there's there's a twofold issue.
1092
00:56:37.010 --> 00:56:41.170
Number one, there's this misconception that women are going to
1093
00:56:41.210 --> 00:56:46.710
get masculinized with testosterone. And women make one-tenth of the
1094
00:56:46.730 --> 00:56:49.110
amount of testosterone as men. So it's a very potent
1095
00:56:49.159 --> 00:56:53.059
hormone in women. But with that being said, in the
1096
00:56:53.099 --> 00:56:56.119
proper range, you're not going to get masculinized. I mean,
1097
00:56:56.159 --> 00:56:59.619
you would have to be hitting doses of where men
1098
00:56:59.659 --> 00:57:03.489
would be on a normal kind of distribution curve. I
1099
00:57:03.530 --> 00:57:07.619
think a lot of clinicians... Because technically, testosterone is not
1100
00:57:07.699 --> 00:57:10.969
FDA approved, which is complete BS. Because women make it,
1101
00:57:10.960 --> 00:57:14.059
75% of us make it up until menopause. And then
1102
00:57:14.239 --> 00:57:17.840
most of us benefit from replenishment. But a lot of
1103
00:57:17.860 --> 00:57:20.260
clinicians are never trained. You know, they're not trained to
1104
00:57:20.340 --> 00:57:23.090
check hormones. You know, looking at a free and total
1105
00:57:23.110 --> 00:57:27.130
testosterone as a starting point. I think that people tend
1106
00:57:27.170 --> 00:57:30.050
to think about testosterone in a very myopic way. It's
1107
00:57:30.090 --> 00:57:34.429
just about libido. No, it's your... executive function hormone. It's
1108
00:57:34.530 --> 00:57:36.289
the get off your ass and go to the gym.
1109
00:57:36.369 --> 00:57:40.369
It's the get things done hormone. It also impacts body composition.
1110
00:57:40.489 --> 00:57:42.869
And so I think for a lot of women that
1111
00:57:42.909 --> 00:57:45.269
get fixated on, oh, it must be because my cortisol
1112
00:57:45.289 --> 00:57:48.449
is high or my estrogen is not optimal. It very
1113
00:57:48.510 --> 00:57:51.530
likely is that your testosterone is not optimized either. And
1114
00:57:51.630 --> 00:57:53.989
so I think on a lot of different levels, like
1115
00:57:54.150 --> 00:57:56.929
as the black box morning was removed from estrogen and
1116
00:57:56.969 --> 00:58:00.349
Marty Makary is working diligently to kind of speed things
1117
00:58:00.389 --> 00:58:02.849
through the FDA or make changes. And this is not
1118
00:58:02.869 --> 00:58:04.869
a political statement. I'm just saying, I think that it's
1119
00:58:04.989 --> 00:58:08.230
good that, you know, he seems to be doing a
1120
00:58:08.269 --> 00:58:12.530
mea for the women's health initiative that came out in 2002.
1121
00:58:12.530 --> 00:58:15.320
But I think for a lot of individuals, it's helping
1122
00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:19.539
them understand that number one, you deserve to have testosterone
1123
00:58:19.579 --> 00:58:22.920
replacement therapy if your testosterone levels are not optimal. Yes.
1124
00:58:23.860 --> 00:58:27.199
And And full stop, this is for men and for women.
1125
00:58:27.519 --> 00:58:29.840
And I think that, you know, I'm doing an N
1126
00:58:29.860 --> 00:58:32.159
of one experiment. For a long time, I've been taking
1127
00:58:32.219 --> 00:58:35.710
compounded testosterone. I just got tired of rubbing compounded creams
1128
00:58:35.750 --> 00:58:39.530
on my body because they're ridiculously expensive. Let's be transparent.
1129
00:58:39.909 --> 00:58:41.829
So I said to my primary, I was like, can
1130
00:58:41.849 --> 00:58:44.130
you just give me some AndroGel and I'll just squirt
1131
00:58:44.210 --> 00:58:45.190
out a pea-sized amount.
1132
00:58:45.230 --> 00:58:45.869
I'll try that and.
1133
00:58:45.849 --> 00:58:48.510
See how I do. It is super cost-effective. It's like
1134
00:58:48.590 --> 00:58:51.320
five bucks for a big bag. I mean, the last
1135
00:58:51.380 --> 00:58:55.099
bag I received from CVS, I've had it since October. Yes,
1136
00:58:55.119 --> 00:58:58.860
in almost six months. Five dollars. That's how it should be.
1137
00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:03.239
Right. Well, and women. So for men, when they use androgel,
1138
00:59:03.280 --> 00:59:06.550
it requires so much more, especially if they're severely hypergonadal
1139
00:59:06.570 --> 00:59:08.869
and it's not very effective. But for women, it's like
1140
00:59:08.909 --> 00:59:11.559
a dream. because it doesn't take much at all. And
1141
00:59:11.599 --> 00:59:14.840
it's so good in terms of how it'll work for you.
1142
00:59:14.960 --> 00:59:17.320
And it's like it's perfectly suited for you because let
1143
00:59:17.340 --> 00:59:20.840
me tell you something. It does get old injecting because
1144
00:59:21.019 --> 00:59:23.099
I put myself on it like a fool. And that's
1145
00:59:23.119 --> 00:59:26.909
a whole nother story, like too young. because of the
1146
00:59:26.989 --> 00:59:28.889
work that I was doing and the environment I was in.
1147
00:59:28.920 --> 00:59:31.400
And I teach people to not do that. And it sucks.
1148
00:59:31.480 --> 00:59:34.260
But for women, you guys could make it severely easy.
1149
00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:37.400
Like you just said, it'll cost you nothing. And it
1150
00:59:37.460 --> 00:59:40.539
takes like a pea size to actually work. So in
1151
00:59:40.579 --> 00:59:44.139
that regard, I think more it's, we need to be
1152
00:59:44.179 --> 00:59:46.699
reliant on people like you to deliver the message of
1153
00:59:46.760 --> 00:59:49.599
the importance of, because it's one thing to hear it
1154
00:59:49.619 --> 00:59:52.619
from a guy, but it's a whole nother thing to
1155
00:59:52.679 --> 00:59:56.619
hear it from a woman that is, you know, looked
1156
00:59:56.679 --> 01:00:01.349
upon as an expert or really respected explaining this to
1157
01:00:01.429 --> 01:00:05.030
them because you can relate more with a female going
1158
01:00:05.070 --> 01:00:09.230
through it. And I understand how it can be in
1159
01:00:09.809 --> 01:00:11.619
your head. Oh, it's going to do this and that.
1160
01:00:11.659 --> 01:00:16.380
But factually, it is so, so, so important because without
1161
01:00:16.539 --> 01:00:20.280
that balance, that is the lowest quality of life possible
1162
01:00:20.699 --> 01:00:23.869
to have that testosterone gone, even for women. Yeah.
1163
01:00:24.030 --> 01:00:25.630
Well, and I think for a lot of people, it
1164
01:00:25.710 --> 01:00:28.250
precipitates mood disorders. I think so much of it is
1165
01:00:28.289 --> 01:00:30.789
thought it's just, you know, progesterone and estrogen, but I
1166
01:00:31.050 --> 01:00:34.440
really do think of hormones as a symphony. And for
1167
01:00:34.500 --> 01:00:37.219
each one of us, like this very much this bio-individual
1168
01:00:37.260 --> 01:00:40.980
approach that for each one of us, that symphony might
1169
01:00:41.179 --> 01:00:43.960
sound a little different because that is as unique as
1170
01:00:44.019 --> 01:00:46.460
our bodies are. So, you know, my hope and my
1171
01:00:46.500 --> 01:00:52.090
intent is that we'll start seeing testosterone being properly evaluated
1172
01:00:52.130 --> 01:00:55.210
for each patient and not being told like, there are
1173
01:00:55.230 --> 01:00:57.570
some people in the menopause space that they want the
1174
01:00:57.730 --> 01:01:05.969
lowest dose available for hormones, not optimization, just baseline replenishment.
1175
01:01:06.050 --> 01:01:08.360
And I think that, you know, patients will sometimes say
1176
01:01:08.389 --> 01:01:11.980
to me, I feel really good when my free testosterone
1177
01:01:12.039 --> 01:01:14.840
is X. I feel really good when my total testosterone
1178
01:01:14.900 --> 01:01:17.400
is Y. And I really think that that's based as
1179
01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:20.139
very much this bio-individual approach. Like there should be a range.
1180
01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:23.440
You know, there should be an optimal range. Now, I
1181
01:01:23.460 --> 01:01:26.489
will be totally transparent and tell you that I've interviewed
1182
01:01:26.530 --> 01:01:29.260
enough experts on the podcast, some of whom do pellets,
1183
01:01:29.429 --> 01:01:32.989
most of them don't, because of the super physiologic dosing
1184
01:01:33.010 --> 01:01:36.010
that comes with pellet therapy. Yeah. And I've had women
1185
01:01:36.050 --> 01:01:37.590
say to me, I feel like I was chasing a
1186
01:01:37.630 --> 01:01:40.489
high over and over and over again. Like the first
1187
01:01:40.530 --> 01:01:43.900
high I got from testosterone, I never felt that good again.
1188
01:01:44.099 --> 01:01:47.480
And so I always say, unfortunately, that is because you
1189
01:01:47.500 --> 01:01:50.119
got a super physiologic dose. They keep it really high
1190
01:01:50.179 --> 01:01:53.550
because you're getting a pellet placed every three to four months.
1191
01:01:54.329 --> 01:01:56.510
And if they overdose you or put you too high,
1192
01:01:56.530 --> 01:01:59.329
you're stuck. Like they can't remove it. And so I
1193
01:01:59.369 --> 01:02:02.940
think that you know, there's kind of a graduated approach,
1194
01:02:02.980 --> 01:02:07.300
you know, transdermal approaches for women, then maybe subcutaneous, then,
1195
01:02:07.320 --> 01:02:10.929
you know, maybe IM, but that's probably not my favorite either.
1196
01:02:10.989 --> 01:02:13.369
And then the other thing transparently is there's a lot
1197
01:02:13.409 --> 01:02:15.170
of people in the health and wellness space that are women,
1198
01:02:15.210 --> 01:02:16.889
they're using anabolics and you can tell.
1199
01:02:16.909 --> 01:02:22.309
Yeah, I've seen it all and I've been through it all.
1200
01:02:22.690 --> 01:02:27.639
And I will tell you in my experiences and I
1201
01:02:27.780 --> 01:02:30.630
say this as somebody that has been in the trenches
1202
01:02:30.690 --> 01:02:34.369
for 15 years. There are so many doctors and people
1203
01:02:34.409 --> 01:02:37.050
that go to their books or go to something that
1204
01:02:37.110 --> 01:02:41.389
have no clue about understanding ester chains that are attached
1205
01:02:41.429 --> 01:02:46.900
to testosterone and the highs and lows, the peaks and troughs,
1206
01:02:47.500 --> 01:02:51.300
and they don't grasp. And they put people on different methods,
1207
01:02:51.400 --> 01:02:53.559
like you said, with the pellets, which I would never
1208
01:02:53.619 --> 01:02:55.300
be in agreement with for anyone.
1209
01:02:56.550 --> 01:02:58.610
There's too many other options, isn't there?
1210
01:02:58.630 --> 01:02:58.989
Yes.
1211
01:03:00.130 --> 01:03:01.889
Every time I say that I get a message from
1212
01:03:01.949 --> 01:03:04.530
someone saying it's awesome, and then, you know, a couple
1213
01:03:04.570 --> 01:03:06.360
months later, they'll say, oh, you're so right, I feel
1214
01:03:06.389 --> 01:03:08.579
terrible now. So I think that.
1215
01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:13.659
I know they're very profitable and I know the people
1216
01:03:13.739 --> 01:03:17.099
that are doing them, I think that they believe that
1217
01:03:17.119 --> 01:03:20.239
they're giving women what they're asking for. But I like
1218
01:03:20.320 --> 01:03:24.539
predictability when it comes to replenishing, replacing hormones. And so
1219
01:03:24.559 --> 01:03:26.780
I just think there's better options. And I'll share with
1220
01:03:26.820 --> 01:03:29.590
you transparently, when I first started HRT, there was a
1221
01:03:29.619 --> 01:03:30.690
provider who's never been.
1222
01:03:30.590 --> 01:03:31.510
A podcast guest.
1223
01:03:31.530 --> 01:03:34.010
So I'll just put it to your community that way
1224
01:03:34.030 --> 01:03:35.989
because people then always want to know, where are they
1225
01:03:36.030 --> 01:03:39.050
in Texas? They've never been a podcast guest. But I
1226
01:03:39.090 --> 01:03:42.840
think it's important and significant. to say that this individual
1227
01:03:42.889 --> 01:03:47.170
convinced me that I am administration of estrogen and testosterone
1228
01:03:47.210 --> 01:03:47.929
was the way to go.
1229
01:03:48.349 --> 01:03:48.650
Always.
1230
01:03:49.309 --> 01:03:52.210
Well, for me, it wasn't. And I mean, it was
1231
01:03:52.690 --> 01:03:54.449
a little bit of a disaster. And so I said,
1232
01:03:54.469 --> 01:03:58.510
I think some of us are really sensitive to replacing hormones.
1233
01:03:58.630 --> 01:04:02.309
And so this individual was... Because I was not fitting
1234
01:04:02.329 --> 01:04:05.230
the way that he wanted me to fit within his
1235
01:04:05.329 --> 01:04:08.170
kind of practice paradigm, we had to part ways. But
1236
01:04:08.469 --> 01:04:11.989
for me, I don't need to have super physiologic dosing
1237
01:04:12.030 --> 01:04:15.130
to feel good. And so I think if anyone's listening
1238
01:04:15.210 --> 01:04:18.110
and they haven't yet met the right provider, I promise
1239
01:04:18.139 --> 01:04:20.460
you they're out there. It took me a little bit
1240
01:04:20.519 --> 01:04:23.199
of fits and starts to get to the right people.
1241
01:04:24.179 --> 01:04:27.809
But I think you'll know when your hormones are optimized
1242
01:04:27.849 --> 01:04:29.829
within the range that you want them to be in
1243
01:04:29.849 --> 01:04:33.050
because your brain will work. And I think, Dylan, and
1244
01:04:33.269 --> 01:04:35.150
I'm sure you would agree with this, when you're a
1245
01:04:35.150 --> 01:04:39.320
podcast host and you're speaking on stages, I have to
1246
01:04:39.340 --> 01:04:42.059
feel like all my cylinders are firing and then some.
1247
01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:45.619
So if my hormones are not optimized, I'm going to know.
1248
01:04:45.639 --> 01:04:46.920
That's it.
1249
01:04:47.409 --> 01:04:49.809
Growing, you know, my one town, this is funny. I
1250
01:04:49.849 --> 01:04:52.690
did a, I did a little Insta story about this.
1251
01:04:53.070 --> 01:04:55.070
I was sitting in the airport and I was irritated.
1252
01:04:55.710 --> 01:04:57.659
I was irritated by someone who was chewing their gum
1253
01:04:57.699 --> 01:05:00.900
like a cow. And I made a comment. And so
1254
01:05:00.960 --> 01:05:03.139
I like put, and I was like, clearly my estrogen
1255
01:05:03.179 --> 01:05:06.599
patch needs to be changed tomorrow because I'm so irritable.
1256
01:05:06.960 --> 01:05:09.599
And sure enough, someone, all these people were commenting. They're like,
1257
01:05:09.659 --> 01:05:12.119
oh my God, same with me. That's exactly what happens
1258
01:05:12.139 --> 01:05:14.300
to me the day before I changed my patch. And
1259
01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:16.760
I was like, otherwise, I'm like, whatever. You know, when
1260
01:05:16.780 --> 01:05:18.579
I'm traveling, it's like, go with the flow. But this
1261
01:05:18.659 --> 01:05:21.750
woman was chewing like a cow with her gum, like
1262
01:05:21.829 --> 01:05:24.610
popping and I was like, I kept looking at her like,
1263
01:05:24.909 --> 01:05:26.769
do you realize you're disturbing all of us?
1264
01:05:27.489 --> 01:05:29.170
I don't care how balanced I am. I would have
1265
01:05:29.190 --> 01:05:32.900
been annoyed. I don't even care. No, I will say this.
1266
01:05:33.099 --> 01:05:35.219
And this is how you know when you're dealing with
1267
01:05:35.239 --> 01:05:38.019
somebody quite smart or somebody that you were dealing with
1268
01:05:38.039 --> 01:05:42.519
that is not. The best way to get it into
1269
01:05:42.559 --> 01:05:45.019
your system and to absorb it without a shadow of
1270
01:05:45.059 --> 01:05:48.599
a doubt is I am. However, that does not make
1271
01:05:48.639 --> 01:05:51.900
it suitable for everybody. And every single person is different
1272
01:05:51.920 --> 01:05:55.679
on what they need and can handle. And just because
1273
01:05:55.719 --> 01:05:58.230
that's the most efficient way doesn't mean it's the most
1274
01:05:58.309 --> 01:05:59.050
effective way.
1275
01:05:59.469 --> 01:06:01.750
No, I think I had this massive peak and then
1276
01:06:01.769 --> 01:06:04.909
I would have this massive trough. And so for listeners,
1277
01:06:04.949 --> 01:06:07.050
peak is when you have the highest level and trough
1278
01:06:07.110 --> 01:06:10.570
is generally your lowest level. And for me, I just,
1279
01:06:10.869 --> 01:06:13.309
I mean, within two weeks, I was like, holy cow.
1280
01:06:13.590 --> 01:06:16.070
I just, I, it was not a good feeling. So
1281
01:06:16.170 --> 01:06:18.949
for me personally, not the right decision for me. I
1282
01:06:18.989 --> 01:06:21.820
know that other people have done well with subcutaneous or
1283
01:06:21.860 --> 01:06:24.480
even IM injections, but that wasn't the right one for me.
1284
01:06:24.599 --> 01:06:27.719
My question would be too, and this is probably his ignorance,
1285
01:06:28.320 --> 01:06:30.820
is it depends too on the ester chain and when
1286
01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:33.719
you're doing it. So for instance, testcipionate has the perfect
1287
01:06:33.780 --> 01:06:37.760
half-life for TRT given the half-life. However, A lot of
1288
01:06:37.800 --> 01:06:40.340
people like to take it once a week. The problem is,
1289
01:06:40.380 --> 01:06:41.699
is you take it at the start of the week.
1290
01:06:41.719 --> 01:06:43.260
And by the time the end of the week hits,
1291
01:06:43.320 --> 01:06:45.699
if you look at a level on somebody, they were
1292
01:06:45.760 --> 01:06:48.480
at seven, 800 here, and then it's down to one. See,
1293
01:06:48.539 --> 01:06:52.079
I've always, always said that you need to do it
1294
01:06:52.139 --> 01:06:54.000
twice a week. You hit it right in the middle
1295
01:06:54.099 --> 01:06:58.510
and you take your, like I take 75 milligrams Monday
1296
01:06:58.639 --> 01:07:02.489
and Friday. And I'm always saying, in a straight line
1297
01:07:02.510 --> 01:07:05.349
where I need to be, where it's perfect, right? People
1298
01:07:05.389 --> 01:07:08.289
don't understand esters and the release and how it works. And,
1299
01:07:09.030 --> 01:07:12.550
you know, misguided information is everywhere, unfortunately.
1300
01:07:12.570 --> 01:07:15.460
Yeah. I mean, I recall him saying to me, yeah,
1301
01:07:15.500 --> 01:07:17.539
your levels are great now. And I'm like, I don't
1302
01:07:17.579 --> 01:07:18.079
feel great.
1303
01:07:18.480 --> 01:07:19.800
Yeah, that's a problem.
1304
01:07:19.820 --> 01:07:22.139
I was like, I'm not, you know, so for women
1305
01:07:22.179 --> 01:07:24.699
to have a sense, like your estradiol levels, which is
1306
01:07:24.760 --> 01:07:27.940
our predominant form of estrogen, our body makes until menopause,
1307
01:07:28.860 --> 01:07:31.099
There's probably two or three days where your estrogen level
1308
01:07:31.119 --> 01:07:35.590
is like 300. He had me climb. Like I was
1309
01:07:35.630 --> 01:07:39.010
there for weeks and I kept saying I felt terrible
1310
01:07:39.090 --> 01:07:42.050
and he was not listening. And I just said, this
1311
01:07:42.130 --> 01:07:46.210
is not sustainable. I'm developing fluff and no woman out
1312
01:07:46.250 --> 01:07:48.409
there wants to feel fluffy. That's not a good feeling.
1313
01:07:48.429 --> 01:07:50.130
Like we like our pancakes fluffy.
1314
01:07:50.389 --> 01:07:54.000
Yeah, he had you on too much for sure.
1315
01:07:54.019 --> 01:07:54.079
So.
1316
01:07:56.699 --> 01:07:58.409
You know, one of the other things that you talked
1317
01:07:58.469 --> 01:08:02.409
about was circadian rhythm. And I have really stressed, I
1318
01:08:02.409 --> 01:08:05.110
don't know, the past six months, especially the importance of sleep.
1319
01:08:05.329 --> 01:08:08.469
And I've caught a greater understanding and value as I've
1320
01:08:08.489 --> 01:08:11.659
gotten older, especially that doing the five and six hour
1321
01:08:11.699 --> 01:08:14.539
thing does it. It's not something to brag about. It's
1322
01:08:14.719 --> 01:08:18.359
it's it's degrading your life. Would you talk about the
1323
01:08:18.420 --> 01:08:22.739
importance of that in general, the sleep and also the
1324
01:08:23.109 --> 01:08:26.189
How do we develop and fix circadian rhythm when it's
1325
01:08:26.229 --> 01:08:28.250
kind of off and we're having trouble sleeping? What are
1326
01:08:28.270 --> 01:08:29.850
some of your tips? Yeah.
1327
01:08:29.949 --> 01:08:32.479
So number one, I think of sleep as being foundational.
1328
01:08:32.489 --> 01:08:34.159
So if you're not sleeping through the night, that's the
1329
01:08:34.199 --> 01:08:36.979
first thing we have to work on. Not to mention
1330
01:08:37.020 --> 01:08:39.439
the fact that if you look at the microbiome research,
1331
01:08:40.119 --> 01:08:43.060
we have circadian clocks throughout our digestive system. You know,
1332
01:08:43.100 --> 01:08:45.909
people always talk about the suprachiasmatic nucleus in our brain.
1333
01:08:45.930 --> 01:08:48.430
And I'm like, yes, that is the master clock, however.
1334
01:08:49.380 --> 01:08:52.050
If you eat a large bolus of pizza at two
1335
01:08:52.090 --> 01:08:54.770
o'clock in the morning, guess what happens? You are disrupting
1336
01:08:54.829 --> 01:08:59.710
secretion of melatonin. You are disrupting circadian rhythms. You're not
1337
01:08:59.729 --> 01:09:02.819
as intimate. sensitive in the evening. There's so many things
1338
01:09:02.859 --> 01:09:05.359
that happen. But when we're talking about circadian biology in
1339
01:09:06.079 --> 01:09:09.880
a 101, it's really, we are awake when it's light
1340
01:09:09.920 --> 01:09:12.060
outside and we go to sleep when it's dark outside.
1341
01:09:12.500 --> 01:09:14.699
We eat earlier in the day when we are more
1342
01:09:14.779 --> 01:09:17.460
insulin sensitive and our bodies are primed for food as
1343
01:09:17.500 --> 01:09:19.880
opposed to not eating two to three hours before bedtime.
1344
01:09:19.899 --> 01:09:22.399
So a lot of the things, you know, light exposure,
1345
01:09:22.819 --> 01:09:26.689
meal timing, sleep awareness are all in alignment with the
1346
01:09:26.699 --> 01:09:30.670
circadian rhythm. And the circadian rhythm gets off due to
1347
01:09:30.750 --> 01:09:33.829
meal timing, travel. I mean, that's one of the big ones.
1348
01:09:34.329 --> 01:09:38.210
You are on PST and I'm on EST. When I
1349
01:09:38.250 --> 01:09:40.090
travel to the West Coast, I stay on the East
1350
01:09:40.130 --> 01:09:42.779
Coast time and I'll be out there next week and
1351
01:09:42.840 --> 01:09:44.880
I will stay on East Coast time the entire time
1352
01:09:44.920 --> 01:09:46.979
I'm out there. And I look like a loon and
1353
01:09:47.020 --> 01:09:49.060
I'm in bed early, but I do so much better.
1354
01:09:49.090 --> 01:09:52.149
But having said that, I think for anyone that's listening,
1355
01:09:52.550 --> 01:09:56.010
things that disrupt circadian biology impact our health in very
1356
01:09:56.069 --> 01:09:59.289
profound ways. We talk about shift workers. Shift workers are
1357
01:09:59.310 --> 01:10:03.779
at greater risk for cardiovascular disease, poor metabolic health, certain
1358
01:10:03.800 --> 01:10:07.579
types of cancers, all from the disruption of the circadian
1359
01:10:07.640 --> 01:10:10.619
rhythm and alignment. So when we're out of alignment due
1360
01:10:10.640 --> 01:10:14.399
to jet lag or travel or stress or shift work,
1361
01:10:14.899 --> 01:10:16.739
there are things that we have to do to kind
1362
01:10:16.760 --> 01:10:20.149
of bring things back into alignment. You know, some of
1363
01:10:20.210 --> 01:10:22.090
my patients, I had them get off a night shift.
1364
01:10:22.109 --> 01:10:23.710
That was like the first thing that we did because
1365
01:10:23.729 --> 01:10:26.949
it was wrecking their metabolic health. It was wrecking everything
1366
01:10:27.010 --> 01:10:31.789
about their lives. So the microbiome actually adjusts to sleep.
1367
01:10:31.930 --> 01:10:35.069
So when you're not getting enough sleep, your microbiome shifts.
1368
01:10:35.100 --> 01:10:37.520
Sometimes it shifts in a way that you'll extract more
1369
01:10:37.560 --> 01:10:41.850
calories from food. Sometimes you have more inflammatory bacteria. Sometimes
1370
01:10:41.909 --> 01:10:45.189
it can interrupt the estrobilum, which is the estrogen processing
1371
01:10:45.250 --> 01:10:48.189
center of the microbiome. But when I think about very
1372
01:10:48.250 --> 01:10:52.130
tangible things that everyone can do that don't require any gadgets,
1373
01:10:52.729 --> 01:10:55.920
light exposure in the morning can help with circadian realignment,
1374
01:10:56.500 --> 01:10:59.180
meal timing, so eating earlier in the day, not later
1375
01:10:59.220 --> 01:11:04.119
in the day, getting exercise, wearing blue blockers. So technically
1376
01:11:04.380 --> 01:11:07.020
right now, because it's starting to, the sun's starting to
1377
01:11:07.060 --> 01:11:09.479
go down, I should be wearing blue blockers because I'm
1378
01:11:09.659 --> 01:11:12.510
under very bright lights right now, which is very stimulating,
1379
01:11:12.569 --> 01:11:16.850
suppresses melatonin, increases cortisol to keep me alert. I also
1380
01:11:16.909 --> 01:11:19.989
think about hydration. You know, for a lot of people,
1381
01:11:20.010 --> 01:11:25.109
we underestimate the value of hydration, but dehydration can exacerbate
1382
01:11:25.180 --> 01:11:29.619
just about anything. I also think thoughtfully about the meal
1383
01:11:29.659 --> 01:11:32.340
timing piece, not eating three to four hours before bed.
1384
01:11:33.119 --> 01:11:35.439
And then we start layering in other things. If you
1385
01:11:35.520 --> 01:11:38.699
are a perimenopausal woman, you may benefit from oral micronized
1386
01:11:38.739 --> 01:11:42.210
progesterone one to two weeks prior to your menstrual cycle.
1387
01:11:42.689 --> 01:11:45.609
If you're later into perimenopause, you may benefit from estrogen
1388
01:11:45.649 --> 01:11:49.989
therapy because progesterone helps us fall asleep and also upregulates GABA,
1389
01:11:50.130 --> 01:11:53.960
which is this inhibitory neurotransmitter. From progesterone, our body will
1390
01:11:54.000 --> 01:11:58.680
make allopregnenolone, which has a sedating effect. And then estrogen
1391
01:11:58.720 --> 01:12:02.479
can help us sleep. So I start thinking about modulating hormones.
1392
01:12:02.970 --> 01:12:07.109
I also think a great deal about supportive supplements. So
1393
01:12:07.149 --> 01:12:12.399
things like adaptogenic herbs, remora, ashwagandha, rhodiola. I think about
1394
01:12:12.659 --> 01:12:16.380
supplementing with magnesium. I think about B vitamins, although usually
1395
01:12:16.399 --> 01:12:18.520
we dose them in the morning. I think a great
1396
01:12:18.560 --> 01:12:21.920
deal about myo-inositol, which for me is like the game
1397
01:12:21.960 --> 01:12:25.779
changer nutrient that most of us need more of anyway.
1398
01:12:26.020 --> 01:12:28.539
And I kind of titrate that depending on what I'm doing.
1399
01:12:29.340 --> 01:12:32.520
Then we move on to like vagal training, things that
1400
01:12:32.539 --> 01:12:35.359
get us out of fight or flight. So whether it's humming, singing,
1401
01:12:35.779 --> 01:12:39.130
putting legs up a wall, breath work, reading a physical book,
1402
01:12:39.810 --> 01:12:42.189
those are all things before we ever talk about gadgets.
1403
01:12:42.270 --> 01:12:44.750
Because inevitably what people do is they're not sleeping. They're like, oh,
1404
01:12:44.770 --> 01:12:46.670
I need the Oura Ring. And I don't mean to
1405
01:12:46.710 --> 01:12:48.489
pick on Oura Ring. I love my Oura Ring. I'm
1406
01:12:48.510 --> 01:12:50.529
wearing one right now. But I think for a lot
1407
01:12:50.569 --> 01:12:52.520
of people, they get focused on the Whoop Bam, the
1408
01:12:52.600 --> 01:12:55.699
Oura Ring, the vagal devices, which are great and awesome.
1409
01:12:55.779 --> 01:12:57.960
But I always say don't add the devices until you've
1410
01:12:58.020 --> 01:13:01.539
dialed in on, the lifestyle measures that really make the
1411
01:13:01.560 --> 01:13:05.119
biggest impact. And here's the thing, Dylan, when someone's doing
1412
01:13:05.359 --> 01:13:08.779
everything and they're still not sleeping, I'm like, it's gut health.
1413
01:13:09.439 --> 01:13:12.939
It's unresolved trauma. It's chronic stress. Show me a woman
1414
01:13:12.970 --> 01:13:14.710
who doesn't sleep well and show me a woman who
1415
01:13:14.729 --> 01:13:19.149
doesn't manage her stress. Full stop is never an exception
1416
01:13:19.189 --> 01:13:21.109
to that. And I think for a lot of women,
1417
01:13:22.569 --> 01:13:26.640
they think they're managing their stress. but they're actually not.
1418
01:13:26.699 --> 01:13:29.239
Whatever you need to do to manage your stress, do
1419
01:13:29.319 --> 01:13:32.199
something that you like and do it often. So for me,
1420
01:13:32.399 --> 01:13:35.880
I can do breath work anywhere. And that's usually my go-to.
1421
01:13:35.920 --> 01:13:38.180
That's how I can slow my heart rate down. I
1422
01:13:38.199 --> 01:13:41.100
stimulate my vagus nerve. I'll get myself out of fight
1423
01:13:41.149 --> 01:13:44.829
or flight. I do things before bedtime. Once you've mastered
1424
01:13:44.850 --> 01:13:47.130
all the basics, then you can layer in other things.
1425
01:13:47.170 --> 01:13:50.029
But I think for a lot of women, it's diagnostic
1426
01:13:50.069 --> 01:13:53.739
stool testing, really looking at what's going on, Far too
1427
01:13:53.779 --> 01:13:56.359
many women have a lot of issues in the gut
1428
01:13:56.399 --> 01:13:58.899
that are driving a lot of the symptoms they experience.
1429
01:13:58.979 --> 01:14:01.159
You know, the basal motor symptoms, the night sweats, which
1430
01:14:01.199 --> 01:14:04.420
are really unpleasant for women to experience, plus or minus
1431
01:14:04.479 --> 01:14:07.510
the underlying trauma that many of us don't deal with.
1432
01:14:07.550 --> 01:14:09.930
And I always feel like perimenopause is the litmus test.
1433
01:14:10.409 --> 01:14:12.550
That's when the wheels fall off the bus. That's when
1434
01:14:12.590 --> 01:14:16.409
women suddenly, all those adaptive strategies they've used their entire
1435
01:14:16.470 --> 01:14:20.989
lives become incredibly maladaptive. So you have to deal with
1436
01:14:21.029 --> 01:14:25.020
your stuff. And the research demonstrates If you have adverse
1437
01:14:25.060 --> 01:14:28.039
childhood advance scores, you know, anyone listening, there's a joint
1438
01:14:28.079 --> 01:14:31.739
venture between Kaiser Permanente and the CDC. You can go online.
1439
01:14:32.659 --> 01:14:35.159
Very quick quiz. If you have a high ACE score,
1440
01:14:35.180 --> 01:14:37.340
you are more likely to have poor metabolic health, disorder
1441
01:14:37.380 --> 01:14:42.409
relationships with food, higher risk for cancer, earlier menopause, more
1442
01:14:42.470 --> 01:14:45.729
likely to have autoimmune conditions. So for a lot of women,
1443
01:14:45.869 --> 01:14:48.250
and I'm one of them, my ACE score is quite high.
1444
01:14:49.789 --> 01:14:53.050
I think perimenopause was far harder. And I say that
1445
01:14:53.189 --> 01:14:55.689
lovingly and respectfully. My parents did the best they could.
1446
01:14:55.750 --> 01:14:57.329
But when you grow up with a lot of neglect
1447
01:14:57.369 --> 01:15:01.359
and abuse and addiction and physical and verbal abuse, that
1448
01:15:01.399 --> 01:15:05.000
imprints your nervous system. My nervous system tends to run hot,
1449
01:15:05.720 --> 01:15:08.220
meaning it's much more reactive. And there are a lot
1450
01:15:08.239 --> 01:15:12.159
of women listening that we convince ourselves that what we
1451
01:15:12.180 --> 01:15:15.770
grew up in was normal. And in many instances, it's not.
1452
01:15:15.850 --> 01:15:18.449
So just understand that if you're still struggling with sleep,
1453
01:15:18.930 --> 01:15:23.229
The gut microbiome is part of the equation. Addressing your
1454
01:15:23.250 --> 01:15:26.800
underlying stress and trauma is part of the equation. It's
1455
01:15:26.880 --> 01:15:29.960
not just about replenishing hormones. That estrogen patch is important,
1456
01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:32.880
but it's not the only solution. Right.
1457
01:15:33.300 --> 01:15:38.279
Well said. So one more question for you. I'm curious.
1458
01:15:38.819 --> 01:15:41.659
This is more of a personal question, but a recommendation.
1459
01:15:42.279 --> 01:15:47.350
So I'm curious if you have a protocol or... certain
1460
01:15:47.430 --> 01:15:51.090
supplements that you think are more, I don't want to
1461
01:15:51.130 --> 01:15:55.010
even say imperative, but helpful when you are going through
1462
01:15:55.069 --> 01:16:00.090
these different stages of menopause that you really stand behind
1463
01:16:00.149 --> 01:16:02.789
or that you personally use. I've always talked about creatine
1464
01:16:02.850 --> 01:16:05.250
as one of those being very, very important. And you
1465
01:16:05.289 --> 01:16:07.609
and I got into that last time quite a bit
1466
01:16:07.689 --> 01:16:12.229
about the right forms of creatine and the basic importance
1467
01:16:12.289 --> 01:16:14.390
of it. But I'm very curious as to your thoughts
1468
01:16:14.489 --> 01:16:16.909
on certain recommendations. And I want to preface that by
1469
01:16:16.989 --> 01:16:20.170
saying you made it very clear already. Don't rely on
1470
01:16:20.210 --> 01:16:23.609
these before. So people listening, she's not saying these are magic.
1471
01:16:23.649 --> 01:16:27.090
These are extra added beneficial things after you've done everything
1472
01:16:27.210 --> 01:16:29.949
else that that she talks about in her book. And
1473
01:16:29.970 --> 01:16:31.810
this is just something extra.
1474
01:16:32.289 --> 01:16:35.060
Yeah, I would say the things that stand out that
1475
01:16:35.069 --> 01:16:36.680
I think every woman needs to know, you need to
1476
01:16:36.699 --> 01:16:40.810
know your vitamin D levels. you very likely need to
1477
01:16:41.270 --> 01:16:45.250
replenish magnesium. There's over 400 enzymatic reactions in the body
1478
01:16:45.270 --> 01:16:48.670
and you need a red blood cell magnesium because that
1479
01:16:48.710 --> 01:16:52.510
is actually more accurate than a standard magnesium level. And
1480
01:16:52.550 --> 01:16:54.630
it's not an unusual test. I do it all the
1481
01:16:54.670 --> 01:16:57.569
time in cardiology and I've been out of cardiology for
1482
01:16:57.569 --> 01:16:59.390
10 years. So I'll just put it to you that way.
1483
01:16:59.609 --> 01:17:03.060
Magnesium is absolutely something that I think about adaptogenic herbs
1484
01:17:03.079 --> 01:17:05.199
because we become less stress resilient. So I think more
1485
01:17:05.220 --> 01:17:08.859
about B vitamins. I think about adrenal nutrients. The adrenal
1486
01:17:08.899 --> 01:17:11.899
nutrients are the magnesium, the vitamin C, the B vitamins.
1487
01:17:12.140 --> 01:17:14.279
There's a lot of nice formulations that are out there.
1488
01:17:14.899 --> 01:17:17.899
Of course, creatine monohydrate. And there's more to creatine. Like
1489
01:17:17.939 --> 01:17:21.899
the research is evolving about the microbiome. There's another indication
1490
01:17:22.359 --> 01:17:25.649
for helping with small intestinal permeability. There's so much about
1491
01:17:25.689 --> 01:17:30.510
creatine monohydrate. It is a total game changer. Everyone listening
1492
01:17:30.529 --> 01:17:33.029
should be taking creatine monohydrate. And let me be very clear.
1493
01:17:33.829 --> 01:17:38.020
You want to make sure it is CreaPure or CreaVitalis. Unfortunately,
1494
01:17:38.109 --> 01:17:41.020
the darned German company now is forcing all of us
1495
01:17:41.060 --> 01:17:43.020
in the health and wellness space to use Crea Vitalis.
1496
01:17:43.039 --> 01:17:44.840
So it's a more expensive investment.
1497
01:17:44.899 --> 01:17:45.359
Exactly.
1498
01:17:45.380 --> 01:17:46.220
That's exactly what.
1499
01:17:46.680 --> 01:17:46.960
Your.
1500
01:17:46.859 --> 01:17:50.899
Facial expression was exactly mine. I was like, what? So
1501
01:17:51.180 --> 01:17:54.380
that's the highest quality. You're less likely to be reactive.
1502
01:17:55.359 --> 01:17:58.819
You want to be conscientious about sourcing it from reliable companies.
1503
01:17:58.880 --> 01:18:00.479
It doesn't have to be my own. It can be...
1504
01:18:00.340 --> 01:18:03.189
There are many good companies that use that. I think
1505
01:18:03.199 --> 01:18:07.029
the other things that I consider is... really dependent on
1506
01:18:07.250 --> 01:18:10.949
what you personally need. So, you know, I feel like
1507
01:18:10.970 --> 01:18:14.260
a lot of my patients need stress support. So those
1508
01:18:14.300 --> 01:18:17.960
adaptogenic herbs become more important. I think that, you know,
1509
01:18:17.979 --> 01:18:21.060
we're learning a whole lot more about short chain fatty
1510
01:18:21.180 --> 01:18:24.050
acids and we didn't even touch on these. But as
1511
01:18:24.069 --> 01:18:27.670
our hormones are declining, we start making less short chain
1512
01:18:27.689 --> 01:18:30.670
fatty acids and that's when fiber becomes important. But I
1513
01:18:30.670 --> 01:18:32.909
would like people to get fiber from food, not fiber
1514
01:18:32.970 --> 01:18:35.649
from a supplement. And I guess the last thing that
1515
01:18:35.659 --> 01:18:39.689
I would say is magnesium soaks. I know this isn't
1516
01:18:39.710 --> 01:18:41.250
going to be sexy, but this is something I used
1517
01:18:41.270 --> 01:18:43.869
to teach my patients. So not only do you need
1518
01:18:43.989 --> 01:18:48.489
oral magnesium, you need skin-absorbed transdermal magnesium. So this is
1519
01:18:48.529 --> 01:18:53.380
my magnesium soak recipe. Two cups of magnesium. So magnesium
1520
01:18:53.420 --> 01:18:59.470
sulfates soaks. Two cups of baking soda. Two tablespoons of borax.
1521
01:19:00.149 --> 01:19:02.649
That will help you absorb more. And notice borax, we're
1522
01:19:02.670 --> 01:19:04.930
not talking about swallowing it. We're just saying we're going
1523
01:19:04.949 --> 01:19:06.729
to soak our feet in it or we're going to
1524
01:19:06.750 --> 01:19:09.210
take a bath with it. And that will really help
1525
01:19:09.250 --> 01:19:13.270
your body absorb the magnesium. Now, yes, it requires a
1526
01:19:13.289 --> 01:19:16.170
couple steps, but I found that to be really effective
1527
01:19:16.189 --> 01:19:18.850
because so many of my patients were dealing with palpitations,
1528
01:19:19.390 --> 01:19:22.590
irregular heartbeat after we'd ruled out really serious things. And
1529
01:19:22.630 --> 01:19:24.880
that was a way that I got their magnesium levels
1530
01:19:24.899 --> 01:19:27.520
replenished in a way that they were sustainable over time.
1531
01:19:27.560 --> 01:19:29.699
It doesn't mean you need that every day, maybe once
1532
01:19:29.720 --> 01:19:31.579
or twice a week. And we're heading into warmer weather
1533
01:19:31.600 --> 01:19:33.880
where I am, and there's no way in heck I'm
1534
01:19:33.920 --> 01:19:35.699
taking a hot bath in the middle of summer. So
1535
01:19:36.590 --> 01:19:38.909
That's when I will sometimes sit at night with my
1536
01:19:38.949 --> 01:19:40.329
husband and I'll just soak my feet.
1537
01:19:41.270 --> 01:19:43.189
Glad you brought that up because I'm having the same
1538
01:19:43.270 --> 01:19:47.369
problem because I was taking Jardiance and the palpitations have
1539
01:19:47.390 --> 01:19:50.050
been like frequent and it's not anything else. I've had
1540
01:19:50.090 --> 01:19:52.489
every test under the sun and I know what it
1541
01:19:52.609 --> 01:19:55.260
is and I can't seem to get it back properly
1542
01:19:55.319 --> 01:19:56.659
no matter how much I take it.
1543
01:19:56.699 --> 01:19:58.699
It can also be hormones. I mean, that's one thing
1544
01:19:58.760 --> 01:20:02.640
depending on you know, where your variances are. I know
1545
01:20:02.699 --> 01:20:05.539
for women, you know, that drop in estrogen and progesterone
1546
01:20:05.579 --> 01:20:08.970
can provoke a lot of palpitations, although traditional cardiology is
1547
01:20:09.010 --> 01:20:11.029
just making sure you don't have an arrhythmia that's going
1548
01:20:11.050 --> 01:20:12.510
to kill you. It's like we ruled it out. OK,
1549
01:20:12.569 --> 01:20:16.850
so they're benign. So stay away from caffeine. Yeah, stay hydrated.
1550
01:20:17.789 --> 01:20:20.350
That those recommendations only go so far.
1551
01:20:20.770 --> 01:20:23.689
Right. So one more thing I'm going to ask you
1552
01:20:23.720 --> 01:20:26.579
because you brought it up, the fiber. So I want
1553
01:20:26.640 --> 01:20:30.579
to just quickly just talk about the absolute importance of
1554
01:20:30.680 --> 01:20:33.619
fiber and then maybe a few good sources of where
1555
01:20:33.659 --> 01:20:34.850
people should be looking for it.
1556
01:20:35.260 --> 01:20:39.380
Yep. So fiber is important. I mentioned these signaling molecules.
1557
01:20:39.399 --> 01:20:43.699
Short-chain fatty acid production goes down. They're important for de-inflammation.
1558
01:20:44.020 --> 01:20:48.319
They are important for endogenous GLP-1 regulation. They are signaling molecules.
1559
01:20:48.380 --> 01:20:50.880
One of them, butyrate, crosses the blood-brain barrier. So they're really,
1560
01:20:50.920 --> 01:20:53.279
really important. They help with the mucus lining of the
1561
01:20:53.319 --> 01:20:54.319
digestive system. So.
1562
01:20:55.880 --> 01:20:59.260
Fiber becomes more important in middle age. When we eat fiber,
1563
01:20:59.539 --> 01:21:02.100
fiber goes through the digestive system, gets to the large
1564
01:21:02.119 --> 01:21:06.710
intestine or colon. There, the colonocytes ferment it. And when
1565
01:21:06.729 --> 01:21:09.029
they ferment it, what comes out of that are short-chain
1566
01:21:09.050 --> 01:21:12.949
fatty acids. These are really important. So I remind people,
1567
01:21:12.989 --> 01:21:15.090
this is why, and when the carnivores insist that we
1568
01:21:15.130 --> 01:21:18.170
don't eat fiber, I remind them, the research now suggests
1569
01:21:18.210 --> 01:21:20.659
that if you are not consuming fiber in the absence
1570
01:21:20.720 --> 01:21:24.439
of eating any carbohydrates, you're just eating meat, your body...
1571
01:21:24.750 --> 01:21:28.710
In a desperation, we'll try to ferment the protein, which
1572
01:21:28.750 --> 01:21:31.250
is a bad thing. Putrefaction is not a good thing.
1573
01:21:31.710 --> 01:21:34.939
Protein is not designed to be fermented, ideally. I think
1574
01:21:34.989 --> 01:21:38.420
about really easy ways to get more fiber into your diet.
1575
01:21:38.439 --> 01:21:40.380
Number one, track so that you know where you are.
1576
01:21:40.560 --> 01:21:43.020
Average American diet is anywhere from five to eight grams
1577
01:21:43.039 --> 01:21:46.340
a day because processed foods are really devoid of fiber.
1578
01:21:47.279 --> 01:21:50.869
So track where you are first. Most recommendations are anywhere
1579
01:21:50.890 --> 01:21:53.579
from 20 to 30 grams a day. So if you're
1580
01:21:53.699 --> 01:21:56.260
currently eating five, don't try to go to 30. You'll
1581
01:21:56.300 --> 01:21:59.159
be very unhappy because your microbes need time to acclimate.
1582
01:21:59.939 --> 01:22:02.859
So when I think about gentle things that we can do,
1583
01:22:02.939 --> 01:22:07.319
it's cooked vegetables, lentils, soaked beans. If you feel like
1584
01:22:07.380 --> 01:22:10.880
beans become problematic, maybe start with a tablespoon. You don't
1585
01:22:10.899 --> 01:22:13.300
have to start with five cups. The other thing that
1586
01:22:13.340 --> 01:22:17.939
I really like is fresh ground flax and chia seeds. Really,
1587
01:22:18.340 --> 01:22:20.619
really gentle and easy. I have it in a smoothie
1588
01:22:20.689 --> 01:22:23.699
every day. I will tell you it will give you
1589
01:22:23.819 --> 01:22:27.140
gold star poop. So when we talk about Bristol stool
1590
01:22:27.159 --> 01:22:30.640
chart and we're looking at the ideal as a number four,
1591
01:22:31.420 --> 01:22:33.810
for a lot of my women that are either constipated
1592
01:22:33.890 --> 01:22:35.869
or they have diarrhea, adding a little bit of fiber
1593
01:22:35.909 --> 01:22:39.909
into their diet will generally help normalize things. Jokingly, in
1594
01:22:39.949 --> 01:22:43.130
my house, they call artichokes fartichokes, but anything that is
1595
01:22:43.189 --> 01:22:48.170
going to be beneficial, think about ferments, fermented vegetables are
1596
01:22:48.210 --> 01:22:50.590
kind of good option. We don't have to get complicated.
1597
01:22:50.609 --> 01:22:54.800
I think people automatically think, salad. And I'm like, salads
1598
01:22:54.979 --> 01:22:58.619
are fine, but we want at least 30 plant species
1599
01:22:58.699 --> 01:23:01.289
per week. So sometimes a salad is a good idea
1600
01:23:01.310 --> 01:23:03.350
if you're trying to get like 10 things in at once.
1601
01:23:04.050 --> 01:23:08.229
But thinking thoughtfully throughout the week, I go through stages
1602
01:23:08.250 --> 01:23:10.970
where I like certain vegetables and certain protein more than others.
1603
01:23:11.149 --> 01:23:13.560
And jokingly, I would say monogamy is good, but food
1604
01:23:13.569 --> 01:23:16.119
monogamy we don't want. So you don't want to be
1605
01:23:16.140 --> 01:23:19.060
eating the same exact food every single day because those
1606
01:23:19.119 --> 01:23:23.520
microbes in the gut need variety. There's brightly pigmented fruits
1607
01:23:23.560 --> 01:23:28.430
and vegetables. That's valuable information. There's polyphenols and other really
1608
01:23:28.470 --> 01:23:32.890
important things. So start simple. Don't overthink it. Before you
1609
01:23:32.949 --> 01:23:35.949
even think about psyllium husk or any of these other varieties,
1610
01:23:36.029 --> 01:23:37.569
I know when I was writing the book, my editor
1611
01:23:37.609 --> 01:23:40.439
kept saying, we need to have some options. And I'm like, yes,
1612
01:23:40.520 --> 01:23:44.579
but I still want people to genuinely eat the food.
1613
01:23:44.840 --> 01:23:46.220
That is the goal, to eat the food.
1614
01:23:46.899 --> 01:23:50.640
Yes. I can't As a nutritionist for so long and
1615
01:23:50.659 --> 01:23:52.859
as somebody that really has studied food as long as
1616
01:23:52.939 --> 01:23:55.289
I have, I will never be able to get behind
1617
01:23:55.310 --> 01:23:57.569
the we don't need fiber thing. I just can't. I
1618
01:23:57.630 --> 01:23:59.430
can't get there. And I've got some people that I
1619
01:23:59.489 --> 01:24:02.529
really respect try to tell me that. And I just
1620
01:24:02.649 --> 01:24:05.329
I cannot. I'll never get there. I just I just
1621
01:24:05.350 --> 01:24:08.010
don't grasp that one. So I'm glad you talked about
1622
01:24:08.050 --> 01:24:10.189
that and brought up and different options, too, because a
1623
01:24:10.220 --> 01:24:12.340
lot of people they do. They just think psyllium husk
1624
01:24:12.359 --> 01:24:14.640
or they just think oatmeal or something. And that is
1625
01:24:14.680 --> 01:24:17.880
just not it's just there's so many options. You just
1626
01:24:17.939 --> 01:24:21.699
have to. A, understand and B, be creative, you know?
1627
01:24:22.460 --> 01:24:24.659
Absolutely. And I think, you know, when someone says to me,
1628
01:24:24.680 --> 01:24:28.100
I don't tolerate anything other than meat. I'm like, something's
1629
01:24:28.119 --> 01:24:30.779
going on in the microbiome. Like I was hospitalized in
1630
01:24:30.779 --> 01:24:32.300
2019 and I talk about that in the book. And
1631
01:24:32.340 --> 01:24:35.729
I went nine months with eating boiled meat, which I
1632
01:24:35.779 --> 01:24:38.899
did not enjoy just eating meat. But that was all
1633
01:24:39.010 --> 01:24:42.369
my digestive system could tolerate because my gut microbiome had
1634
01:24:42.390 --> 01:24:45.869
been decimated after six weeks of antibiotics. So, you know,
1635
01:24:45.930 --> 01:24:49.100
slowly over time, And it has taken time to build
1636
01:24:49.140 --> 01:24:51.819
that back up. When someone tells me they do not
1637
01:24:51.840 --> 01:24:54.619
tolerate fiber, sometimes it's quantity. Like I said, don't eat
1638
01:24:54.699 --> 01:24:57.079
five cups of beans. If I ate five cups of beans,
1639
01:24:57.180 --> 01:25:00.399
I would be really gassy. But you start with a tablespoon.
1640
01:25:00.720 --> 01:25:04.119
Like sometimes it's quantity. Sometimes it's the quality. You know,
1641
01:25:04.140 --> 01:25:06.460
don't start with the supplement. Start with the food because
1642
01:25:06.500 --> 01:25:09.239
your body knows what to do with that. And so
1643
01:25:09.359 --> 01:25:12.399
people get caught up as soluble, insoluble, resistant starch. I'm like,
1644
01:25:12.510 --> 01:25:15.869
just eat more fiber. Like stop getting... so caught up
1645
01:25:15.909 --> 01:25:19.109
in the nuance, like just think high level. And again,
1646
01:25:19.130 --> 01:25:24.109
the health of your microbiome to me can demonstrate whether
1647
01:25:24.140 --> 01:25:28.750
or not you're tolerating much fiber. So Trust me, in 2019,
1648
01:25:28.750 --> 01:25:31.710
my gut was a disaster. I am now in, you know,
1649
01:25:31.710 --> 01:25:34.829
2026 and my gut is doing a whole lot better,
1650
01:25:34.869 --> 01:25:37.630
but it has taken time. Sometimes what you need is
1651
01:25:37.670 --> 01:25:39.949
a tincture of time. We talk about that in medicine.
1652
01:25:39.970 --> 01:25:43.100
Like sometimes you just need time. And, you know, we
1653
01:25:43.140 --> 01:25:46.180
are a society that's instant gratification, doesn't like to wait,
1654
01:25:47.199 --> 01:25:50.060
doesn't like to be patient. And sometimes I have to
1655
01:25:50.100 --> 01:25:51.539
tell people you need to be more patient.
1656
01:25:52.260 --> 01:25:52.500
Yeah.
1657
01:25:52.560 --> 01:25:53.420
Give it some knowledge. Yeah.
1658
01:25:54.329 --> 01:25:56.770
No, it's perfectly said. I swear to you, I could,
1659
01:25:56.970 --> 01:25:58.689
I would, I think you and I could write a
1660
01:25:58.789 --> 01:26:01.220
book together on stuff right now. Cause I could just
1661
01:26:01.260 --> 01:26:03.260
keep going. I know I said that I would be
1662
01:26:03.300 --> 01:26:05.239
mindful of time and I just looked and I'm like,
1663
01:26:05.260 --> 01:26:10.239
oh shit. Well, you know, I, I cannot tell you
1664
01:26:10.380 --> 01:26:14.300
Cynthia and I express this wholeheartedly how much I enjoy
1665
01:26:14.340 --> 01:26:16.600
talking with you. I think it's always so fun and
1666
01:26:16.659 --> 01:26:19.619
nice every time I see you or anytime we get
1667
01:26:19.659 --> 01:26:22.279
to encounter each other, it's always great. And I feel
1668
01:26:22.310 --> 01:26:25.189
like we, we convey a lot of great information. So
1669
01:26:25.310 --> 01:26:27.329
before I have you talk about your book or anything,
1670
01:26:27.369 --> 01:26:29.670
just thank you because I love this. I really do.
1671
01:26:29.689 --> 01:26:32.649
Well, thank you, Dylan. It's an honor. And thank you
1672
01:26:32.670 --> 01:26:36.489
for being so gracious for Dylan's community to let everyone
1673
01:26:36.529 --> 01:26:40.380
know that Dylan is just doing in-person podcasts right now.
1674
01:26:40.479 --> 01:26:44.380
And my schedule has gotten so compressed that very graciously,
1675
01:26:45.000 --> 01:26:46.979
Dylan said, I will make an exception for you. So
1676
01:26:47.039 --> 01:26:50.619
I'm truly very grateful and appreciative that you were willing
1677
01:26:50.720 --> 01:26:53.510
to give me a little bit of a, Grace for that.
1678
01:26:53.550 --> 01:26:56.329
And we'll obviously have to do an in-person podcast at
1679
01:26:56.350 --> 01:26:56.789
some time.
1680
01:26:57.289 --> 01:27:00.470
Yeah, you're I want you to be my most frequented guest.
1681
01:27:00.569 --> 01:27:04.770
So anytime you want, you just tell me. So everybody,
1682
01:27:05.130 --> 01:27:08.189
you have to get this book. And more than that,
1683
01:27:09.039 --> 01:27:11.060
it's not just to go buy the book. It's to
1684
01:27:11.180 --> 01:27:13.359
educate yourself and it's to change your life and to
1685
01:27:13.819 --> 01:27:17.760
listen to the interviews that Cynthia gives and the people
1686
01:27:17.819 --> 01:27:20.420
she has on and what we can extrapolate from all
1687
01:27:20.460 --> 01:27:24.109
of these people. And the conversations and the questions he asks,
1688
01:27:24.229 --> 01:27:28.149
it's absolutely phenomenal. So if you would, A, publishing date,
1689
01:27:28.210 --> 01:27:30.229
when can we buy this? B, where do we get it?
1690
01:27:30.229 --> 01:27:32.569
And then where does everybody follow you? And everything will
1691
01:27:32.590 --> 01:27:33.350
be in the description.
1692
01:27:33.689 --> 01:27:36.590
Thank you, Dylan. So it's The Menopause Gut will be
1693
01:27:36.649 --> 01:27:40.489
officially published on April 28th. Sold where all fine books
1694
01:27:40.569 --> 01:27:44.130
are sold, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target, Books A Million,
1695
01:27:44.149 --> 01:27:46.409
your local bookstore. You definitely want to check it out.
1696
01:27:46.479 --> 01:27:48.140
And this is the kind of book you actually want
1697
01:27:48.180 --> 01:27:51.489
the physical copy because there's so much information. I've been
1698
01:27:51.529 --> 01:27:53.949
encouraging people, I'm like, buy one for yourself and buy
1699
01:27:53.970 --> 01:27:56.260
a couple for your friends. This is a book that
1700
01:27:56.300 --> 01:27:59.539
I think will end up being a groundbreaking book. That's
1701
01:27:59.600 --> 01:28:01.710
one of the things I've been hearing from the physicians
1702
01:28:01.770 --> 01:28:04.550
I've been engaging with over the podcast are like, no
1703
01:28:04.609 --> 01:28:06.829
one else is talking about this. This is so needed.
1704
01:28:07.529 --> 01:28:10.010
And so you can find me all across social media.
1705
01:28:10.149 --> 01:28:14.199
I'm probably most likely to be on Instagram or I
1706
01:28:14.199 --> 01:28:17.159
have a private Facebook group called The Midlife Pause backslash
1707
01:28:17.180 --> 01:28:20.000
my name. Hint, that was the original working title of
1708
01:28:20.039 --> 01:28:22.979
the book when I submitted my book proposal. But it
1709
01:28:23.000 --> 01:28:25.479
became evident that we needed to make the title very
1710
01:28:25.520 --> 01:28:29.180
descriptive about what was contained in the book. And my
1711
01:28:29.220 --> 01:28:31.600
podcast is Everyday Wellness. It's probably one of my favorite
1712
01:28:31.619 --> 01:28:34.329
things I do in my isn't. But if you go
1713
01:28:34.390 --> 01:28:38.750
to my website, www.cynthiatherlo.com, there's a big banner at the top.
1714
01:28:38.770 --> 01:28:41.180
You can click on that. It'll take you. directly to
1715
01:28:41.199 --> 01:28:43.220
pick the vendor of your choice to pick up a
1716
01:28:43.260 --> 01:28:44.840
copy of The Menopause Gut.
1717
01:28:46.420 --> 01:28:49.239
Well, all I ask of you is a signed copy
1718
01:28:49.260 --> 01:28:51.590
of the book. And your friendship. That's all I want.
1719
01:28:51.869 --> 01:28:54.750
So thank you so much for the time. It's going
1720
01:28:54.770 --> 01:28:56.800
to be cool to go back and watch the difference
1721
01:28:57.079 --> 01:28:59.539
and how we interview and do stuff now when I
1722
01:28:59.560 --> 01:29:01.460
go back and compare, which I'm certainly going to do.
1723
01:29:01.520 --> 01:29:05.680
But I really enjoyed this. You know, it's even a
1724
01:29:05.779 --> 01:29:08.470
non-recording day for me. And this was just fun. I
1725
01:29:08.510 --> 01:29:10.670
just had a good time. It does not work at all.
1726
01:29:10.810 --> 01:29:13.170
It's just fun. So thank you, Cynthia, for all that
1727
01:29:13.210 --> 01:29:16.489
you do, all of the information, all the time you
1728
01:29:16.510 --> 01:29:19.189
spend away from your family. Because I know, I understand,
1729
01:29:19.250 --> 01:29:22.079
I see it. So thank you. It's been a pleasure
1730
01:29:22.100 --> 01:29:24.979
and an honor, and hopefully we'll do this again soon.
1731
01:29:25.520 --> 01:29:26.180
Thanks, Dylan.
1732
01:29:26.819 --> 01:29:29.479
Awesome. All right, everybody. Well, get out and get this book.
1733
01:29:30.199 --> 01:29:32.800
Follow along, follow Cynthia, and stay tuned for plenty more
1734
01:29:32.840 --> 01:29:36.470
to come. Dylan Gemelli and Cynthia Thurlow signing off.