WEBVTT
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What's up, guys?
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Welcome back to the Delphi podcast.
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I'm Tom Sean, it's going to help lead Delphi Ventures as well as host some of the most in-thweeds and thought-provoking guests across crypto, spending layer ones, C5, NFTs, and beyond.
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Also, check out our research on Delphi Digital for miss out of the most compelling research there is up to you.
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As a reminder, nothing said in this podcast is a solicitation to buy or sell any security or token or to make any financial decisions.
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Delphi Ventures may hold tokens mentioned.
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So check out our transparency page in the show notes for more info.
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With that, let's dive in.
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See you guys on the other side.
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Welcome back to the Delphi Podcast.
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This episode is part of our Web3 series where we've invited some of the top minds building and thinking about the space to better understand what is Web3 all about.
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My name is Rob Cerro, and I'm and on this episode, I'm pleased to be joined by Robert Embreca of Agora, and most notably guilds.
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Welcome everyone.
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Hey guys.
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Hey who's going to be here.
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Yeah, so I think like the best place to kind of start off is like before jumping into everything, Web3, would love for both of you to kind of tell me about yourselves, how you found down the crypto rabbit hole, and then uh what led you guys to start Agora.
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I'm originally a veterinarian, which has nothing to do with this phase, but that kind of allowed me to explore more territories because it it is a you know pretty broad category, so I kind of started doing digital marketing and social media for a little bit.
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But I got into the Ethereum ecosystem in 2016 when I was volunteering in Sweden at a meditation retreat place, and the host that I was staying with was fully into crypto back then.
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And he introduced me to it.
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Since then I've been following along, investing and everything.
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But I only found out and realized that crypto is not just DeFi, but it's more social and you know, Daos and everything in 2020 winter.
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We started working together last year, January, so in 2021, and uh yeah, we co-founded Agora and then Guild last year, and yeah, go on with your engineering.
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Yeah, I'm Rob, I'm a nerd.
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I I got into programming when I was just six, and that's because my father co-founded one of the first Hungarian internet provider companies, and because of this, I basically grew up on the internet, and uh I discovered Bitcoin fairly early, uh, but only joined the space in 2013.
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As a Dogecoin supporter, I just found it hilarious, and I uh wanted to invest all my savings from ThreadFee to Dogecoin immediately, and it turned out to be a good it was a good investment, but eventually I I lost almost all my investments during the next year in 2014.
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Uh, it was a really shit show.
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Uh but then later on we started uh started a family office and also a family software firm.
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Uh I ran the family office and my little brother ran the software firm.
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Uh, and and basically the two companies grew out from just being a small uh firm to a 20-plus people operation, and uh we invest in early stage companies, but then I always wanted to get back to building, and uh, because my main passion in the space has always been the DAO, DAO space, and that's what attracted me to Ethereum at the first space.
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When the DAO hack happened, that was the uh the point when I decided to fully dive deep into Ethereum because it just looks so is so interesting, and uh essentially it was a disappointment because most of these DAO-related companies uh didn't deliver what they promised, and and I wanted to uh do something uh else, something uh from another perspective, and we started out started building out uh DAO tooling, DAO tools uh uh which are more focused on the user experience.
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And uh these tools are mostly off-chain, so basically live where the users are and uh doesn't require basically complicated uh stuff from the early users, from the beginning beginner users all the time.
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Now, one one thing I want to like uh kind of jump into.
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I noticed like if you go to Agora's like Twitter page, it'll show that it's a studio DAO and like kind of what you just described was essentially like, oh, we're gonna be building these different products here and there.
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What was kind of like the choices before that?
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And I guess to kind of make a step into guilds, um, what is uh I guess like guilds itself?
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What is Agora to kind of hit on uh that point right now?
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So initially, I think you know, jumping off of what Robert just touched on is that the full Agora vision back last year was coming out of this uh pain point that the frameworks didn't really satisfy, and we saw how the communities don't really like operating within the platforms and being you know logged into walled gardens in that sense.
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And so the first agora vision was definitely that we wanted to uh build tools and this very independent, very interoperable set of toolkits that are supporting founders to allow anybody to create and handle and scale their communities in a very modular and free way that suits their communities.
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So you know, giving back this actual sovereignty to the communities that you know Web3 offers and it's a vision and mission, we wanted to be fully aligned with that because that's what we believe in as well.
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And so that's where we started.
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And the whole Aquora vision was a little too much at the same time.
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So we wanted to do a lot of things at the same time.
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So last year we kind of struggled with our vision with Aquora, and coming out of that, we we went to Paris last year to each before, and we started talking to a lot of people and got a lot of useful feedback and then continued to you know jump around our idea a bit or jump it off of people.
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And in August, when the LUT project, this NFT project was kind of hyped, we kind of found our holy grail or the core or MVP for Agora, which was Gil XYZ, which is the very first tool and a very simple, very easy to understand tool, which is basically at first, it was just to bring up these party chats for people who share similar blockchain assets with a specific, very specific blockchain asset, so NFPs based on trade.
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So like only crypto punks with cigarettes in their mouth, that that type of specific uh specificity.
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And that was the core idea, and we pushed it out into the open in early September.
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The guys built it here in like nine days once we had the idea of what we wanted to look like, and obviously we had the base of it for Agora already.
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We just had to specify it and make it more clear with a cool UX.
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And yeah, well, before Guild, we more like wanted to build an integration layer between the tools that we found very useful because we saw an emerging new class of off-chain uh DAO-related tools like uh SourceCred, uh Collabend, and uh and many a snapshot uh the Gnosis and not just off-chain, but still essential tools uh like the Gnosis Multi-Sig.
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But all of these tools were very separated, and initially we wanted to build like an integration layer between the possible tools uh with a swap in, swap out.
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So essentially, if you want to use this multi-sig instead of this multi-sig, you can do that and still connect all of this together and provide a more uh a more full feature experience.
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But then we realized that these tools are not just scattered but also quite closed in their own ecosystem.
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So we decided to start building our own uh tools that are very simple, build on very simple fundamentals, and also these tools are more like a sandbox type of uh uh products, not uh not uh a framework type of products.
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And and that's where we started with guild.
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We wanted to create a tool that's that that is very uh uh modular, that is capable to do uh things that we we we didn't uh imagine even.
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No, I was actually gonna touch upon something that you said a little bit earlier when it came to like kind of the freedom of web 3 and what you're describing now is essentially like giving users and giving the community the ability to kind of like build out with the modular for or for lack of a better word, framework that you guys built.
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So um was just wanted to kind of circle that into like how are you guys viewing web 3?
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Um, and would love to kind of then circle back on that point that you just uh were about to mention, Rika.
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So we fully saw like we we are very much aligned with what Web3 initially wanted, which is very you know decentralized, very revolutionary socially, and on the infrastructure section, and provisionalized.
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That's very very important.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So that's you know precisely what we're going for.
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Uh we have to say that it's not possible or probably not very functional to do everything at the same time.
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So now we're focusing on building out a toolkit that will allow us to be way more horizontal and way more innovative on the social side of things as well.
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But we definitely have it in mind to be very easy to use, very accessible, as cheap as possible, and permissionless for our users.
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And that's kind of what our like monetary or like uh how do you say that?
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Like the financial side of the tools and everything.
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So we only fully free for the users because we want to keep it that way.
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Um and that is also like the core idea behind our tools, is what you said to be permissionless and easy to use and easy to access, and very modular for each community to fit themselves, kind of also Rayka mentioned the loot project that it's that it inspired us a lot because uh we initially kind of built guild for for the loot communities, communities around loot, and we built it in the same philosophy to give it to the community, make something very simple, something uh um uh yeah, I mean, stupid simple and and without any uh unnecessary stuff, and just let them do whatever they want to do with it, and then we immediately transferred, I mean, yeah, give the opportunity to the community to control the development process, and that's still the core of the of the of the guild idea that it it started out as a very simple tool that does only one thing, and the community uh controls the direction of the new features and the new integrations and all this stuff.
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Yeah, because back on the on the point, so we put it out in the open in September, and since then we've talked to thousands of people in DMs, and we've built our own community of mostly founders or soon-to-be founders in the space.
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Um and it's been a very interesting ride to build with together with the community and make the full like evolution of our tool out in the open.
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Now we have our now we're out of alpha phase as well, and we also have our public roadmap that is managed by full in the community, so anybody can come submit a feature request or an integration, upload it so it's more you know higher up on the priority list.
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And this way they have a like we have more of a possibility to be less in just our own little circles of influence and go what we think is right and have the ability to listen to more people from our community, even if we don't have the capacity to talk to one-on-one with everybody anymore, we still have like an open conversation portal with them.
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That's amazing.
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I remember like speaking to you guys back in September when LIBE came out, understanding kind of like, oh, this makes so much sense to onboard these various communities in such a simple way.
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And you were one of probably the first teams to actually be thinking about the human component when it comes to these communities, where I feel like a lot of teams working with DAOs or just working from the tooling space, they're more or less like solving or looking back towards like web two to understand, like, okay, this occurred in this uh kind of time period, this technological period.
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How do we bring this to Web3?
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And what does that exactly look like?
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And just kind of building it versus kind of working with the communities, understanding certain pain points, and what you can really like strip down and understand from like a crypto perspective, what can be built here?
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So I feel like you guys also focus specifically on like that first impression and that easy onboarding process.
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So, kind of what went into the decision making for uh guilds itself to make it as like really simple as possible to get people to be onboarded and yeah.
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You're just answering the first part because actually I think it's very funny because in our case it almost works the the opposite way that we recognize is very important stuff in Web3, and then now we are thinking about how we can implement it in Web2 and then give it to uh more communities and onboard more communities from Web2 with these new uh opportunities and new features, new kind of features.
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So yeah, it's it's it's very interesting.
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Uh, and it's only possible this way when we always looked at what's possible and not what what what are the problems or what can we do again, what others did in Web2 or in the history.
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So what was the second part?
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Yeah, the second part is why we why did we decide to to keep it as simple as yeah uh I think I I touched that uh already.
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It's basically a philosophical, it was initially like a philosophical thing, uh, but it was also came from from our frustration with the existing ecosystem uh and our personal experiences with with some of the tools and not just in Web3, with software in general.
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I grew up in a family where uh basically open source software using Linux was the norm and still the norm.
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So uh we always uh uh mastered our products and not the other way.
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It was very important, it's it's very important for my family to um yeah, basically to be the master of the software and and don't let the software control control us or or steal our data and and other stuff.
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So uh yeah, it it was very uh it was in it was an easy choice for me.
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And that kind of brings me to uh my next question is like what are some of the things that you can do with Agora with guilds in Web3 that like web two companies just can't even do?
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Um and it was interesting how you mentioned before is where like you've understood like what can be possible or kind of what is the creativity aspect you can bring in web 3, and how do you bring it backwards towards web 2, which is a lot different than a lot uh many people are thinking about in the space.
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Uh yeah, so we are thinking about uh uh access control and now membership management a lot, uh, because all the DAO space makes it possible to uh for association of people to work to come together and work together in a fully revolutionary way.
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And we are still experimenting as a collective on on the social front.
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How does that work?
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Because uh the human nature still requires a lot of trust, but we are using we started using uh uh a technology that that's trustless, and uh some of I mean uh that uh that could cheat us uh in a way that uh some people think that we can just rely on the technology purely, but that's that's clearly not true.
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We saw it uh with with big hacks like code is not low.
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So this is this is a constant uh uh uh our argument in the web free space.
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And uh I think the human component is not uh there yet where our technology is at the moment.
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So it's very important to build stuff that's that's uh easy to adopt uh and and easy to accept for uh non-technical people and non-believers of the crypto space.
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And uh but still, on the other hand, there are certain things that just make make the internet and like the login experiment, login experience so simple.
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Uh, probably everyone knows this in Web3, but essentially logging in with Ethereum is just the simplest thing possible on the internet right now, and that's for example something that we really want to bring back to Vec2 as well, and not just logging in, but also uh creating like an authorization layer uh and and the hierarchies uh behind the scenes uh based on on-chain parameters to Vec2 products, and I think that's that's a great uh opportunity here.
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But I think if I can add here is that what we have in VEP2 with like G Suite, so like Google, that you can log in with your email address with your Gmail account anywhere.
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We are adding that layer, so we're building out this full infrastructure to bridge a community and the membership structure across Veb3 platforms and Av2 platforms as well.
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So having this element of your email address login or that possibility, and adding on top of that all the things that Web3 has to offer, like ownership, this incredible layout of communities of made up of uh a lot of trustless stuff, but also like way more trusted stuff, if that makes sense.
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So like on the financial side and on the voting side and governance side, and ownership, which is so much talked about, but I think almost not enough still, because us like basically owning a company, owning everything together that our community is building, is a crazy, crazy advantage of Web3.
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And we're like combining this with the Web2 Web2 things, or like trying to do that since we have the Web3 element, now we're trying to connect it with more Web2 so it is more familiar and even more accessible for everybody.
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But yeah, so like combining the Web3 vision, the Web3 accessibility and ownership with the convenience of Web2 stuff is very exciting for us, and that is our aim to do this year so that we have a base to grow from socially as well.
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As Robert said, that the social structures and the like hierarchies within the DAOs and how we work together is not quite there yet.
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We still have some room to grow on the technical side, and that's what we are trying to pioneer and you know drive and push further.
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Yeah, I agree with Rayka that uh the trustless ownership is basically the biggest advantage of this era, the whole web-free uh technology stack, that we can own uh and own assets and and own uh tokens and NFTs already, but we still don't own our identity, we still don't own uh a lot of our uh uh social data.
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And uh essentially, yeah, that that's what I wanted to touch on.
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That it's it's just still a huge opportunity.
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Before we kind of jump over to kind of the social identity and everything else, I want to take a step back and just look at a high-level view of we've mess mentioned essentially like treasury management and like multi-sigs at Nosis Safe.
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We mentioned like coordinate uh source cred from like the contribution uh layer.
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What is kind of like this full stack or what does the tech stack look like for a DAO?
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If I wanted to start something right now, like what are kind of those like high-level components that you're looking to add?
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Um, because I know this is something that a lot of teams, DAOs, even just the curious, are trying to figure out there's so many tools in the space.
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Like, what what do I start with?
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What do I need in order to like get started?
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Yeah, so uh I think that fully depends on what your community or your group is going to do.
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I think the most simplest version is to definitely have a comfortable chat where you can talk with each other for a lot of communities.
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That is Discord for now and or Telegram for certain other things.
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So have that established a cool server where you guys are comfortable and can talk to each other freely.
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And then on top of that, you should definitely have some sort of cohesion that's given giving more like community ownership, but without you having to go through the process of launching a token or an NFT because that can be kind of you know um complicated and expensive sometimes.
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So I would definitely recommend um getting um into blog, maybe, because that's free.
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And it is something that people can collect in their addresses and their wallets and then have more um community cohesion and something that you guys are doing together and has some blockchain aspect.
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And for that, I think later I would still like have some sort of access control or membership.
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Management like Guild XYZ and then also have some something where you guys are managing your community and what you guys are doing.
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So maybe a notion or a clarity is really great for project management for web three communities and DAOs.
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I think what else?
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I just have a different opinion.
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Okay, good.
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Because from a technology I welcome it all.
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Because from a technology perspective, if we're really talking about uh DAOs, then the entry level is just so high.
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Uh we essentially can say that most of these communities right now are DAOs that we have in the space.
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In my personal opinion, one of the uh I mean one of the few DAOs is like the Ethereum ecosystem and the miners in Ethereum in Ethereum because essentially a DAO, what is a DAO?
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It should be decentralized, it should be autonomous, and it should be an association of people.
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And that requires like a massive community to be really to be really decentralized and really autonomous.
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It's just so difficult to reach it, reach that point.
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I think most of these communities are heading to become a DAO one day, but uh still 99% aren't DAOs at all.
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They are just a new wave of internet communities.
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I would call them modern communities on the internet, and that's perfectly fine, in my opinion, because the technology is iterating so fast, we we just can't uh yeah comprehend so many new things and so many new uh um for well no, sorry.
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How do you say for no?
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Ah shit, okay.
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I language barrier.
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Language barrier, sorry.
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So yeah, but if we if we call those just the communities in Web3, uh then again from a technology perspective, uh it could be like just a communication channel, or it could be like just a fancy multi-sig, or just uh boring multi-sig or even some cryptography where you can sign and with some threshold encryption you can uh make decisions together.
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So it can be really primitive or or just very traditional, like creating a new chat room.
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But on the aspect of the stack, like the tools that you need to use, I think that changes like every three months since the like the improvements and evolution of the DAO tooling space is really fast.
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So you gotta keep up with the trends.
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Um I just checked, like we were talking the other day about what projects do we want to integrate next, or you know, first when we have our API out in this next few weeks.
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And I looked through everybody that we talked with since September.
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Like I have an Excel sheet of everybody that you know needs more contact or we want to talk to later.
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But a few of them are not even around anymore.
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So you gotta really, really be on the like on your tippy toes to know everything that is going on in the Dow tooling space.
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And I'm I I'm very curious to see what's gonna stick and stay around for another year or another few years and evolve with the communities that are here and their needs.
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You you read my mind because the next thing I was gonna go into is kind of like the stickiness of all these tools.
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Like I know a while back uh I kind of posted like just a high level of where are the tools located across a couple chains, understanding like what is um available for like the knowledge management, what's available from treasury management, what framework can you even use?
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What about token gating?
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Um, and there was over 250, and then another 70 individuals or projects reached out, and I think the list is growing and growing at this point.
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:54.000
So, do you see kind of like the space continuing to push experimentation, or are you gonna uh see over time like some form of consolidation?
00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:58.799
And what do you think are kind of those like pivotal factors that lead to uh consolidation if you go that route?
00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:12.880
I think it really depends on adoption, uh, one way, but also I expect uh a lot of these tools are going to just stop being developed at some point, and uh new tools are going to appear.
00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:28.000
And I sadly expect that the new tools are gonna be less uh uh uh decentralized and then probably will uh uh have more features uh uh glued together.
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:30.880
So basically more and more tools are becoming.
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:41.839
I think the tools are are going to become more complex and more platform-like and and more um yeah, more good for different tests, different things.
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:51.200
Uh but yeah, one touching one more thing from the last question, uh the DAO definitely requires a lot, a hell lot of people.
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:53.680
So it just doesn't work any other way.
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:59.680
If you if you don't have like hundreds of active participants, it cannot become a DAO in any way.
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:17.440
Uh and that also uh in I mean because of that, uh the tools and and the tools used by the by the DAO, uh, they are getting dropped out and new tools getting in because of with the community.
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:36.880
When new community members join, they will start build or or bring their own tools from elsewhere, and that's just uh an organic way to for the communities to discover new and new opportunities and and better tools and and then uh basically evolve their uh cooperation.
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:38.319
Uh Rico?
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:57.200
I think on the consolidation and like experiment experimentation and consolidation um factor, I think we're gonna go in like cycles until we reach so like more tools being um experimentative and coming out super fast about different things and like very simple.
00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:00.400
I think kind of like what Gil did the like very one thing.
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.720
I think a lot of the tools are gonna come out like that way.
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:08.960
I think we saw that during last season, since like last autumn till like January, maybe.
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:19.279
And then I think we're gonna get saturated with that with the new things, and then the projects that didn't make it are gonna like fall off and maybe come back later.
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:24.880
And I think this is gonna lead to being more platform-oriented.
00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:25.759
What Robert said.
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:43.200
I think people are gonna have the need after trying all these tools and like using 20-something or like I don't know, five to ten tools to manage their communities, they're gonna be more favored towards platforms again, and then get sick of platforms because of being logged in, and then the experimentative tools are gonna come back again.
00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:57.599
And I think we're gonna do this cycle in a little bit changed way until we reach the point where the technology of platforms or the technology is as decentralized as we want it to be and as modular as we want it to be.
00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:03.759
And until then, I think communities are gonna keep experimenting and then going back to the safe things.
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:12.000
I think that's gonna be like a cycle until we reach that point for the social and the technical uh advantages to match each other.
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:38.079
I I remember how big of a disappointment was it for me as a child when I realized that people aren't using uh Linux because they don't know about it, but because they they don't want to take the effort to learn the Unix uh commands and uh learn the hundreds of pages of documentation about uh the system, the operating system.
00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:43.359
So they use Windows or now unrelatable user experience about it.
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:46.240
No, I mean so that was at age six, right?
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:50.000
No, it was more recently.
00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:57.200
Um for a long time I really believe that people don't use Linux only because they don't know how how awesome it is.
00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:06.240
Yeah, I I have to uh full full confession here, I do not use Linux um for some of the concerns that are some of the points that you raised.
00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:14.240
Um I do like the kind of simplicity, and I do kind of agree with like the platforming and unbundling and rebundling, just the classic cycle of like how like startup innovation.
00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:18.480
But I I'll make an effort over this year to at least take a look into the links for you.
00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:20.880
No promises in using it though.
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:26.319
Yeah, I'm I was saying this because uh I think guild is like a Unix command.
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:33.599
It's a very simple tool, it's capable to do hundreds of different things already, and the possibilities are extending.
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:42.240
Uh, but I know that people are attracted to simple platforms that have everything that they need immediately.
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:50.799
So I expect to move move into that direction for guild as well, if if we want to stay relevant for the users.
00:30:51.039 --> 00:31:00.400
And speaking of like that community aspect, like how important is it for like DAOs, uh the contributors to really, or I'd say like more of like the leadership level of a DAO to kind of focus on the community?
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:08.160
What experiences are needed to be there to get like the most value out of a product, say like guilds or any of the various tools that we've mentioned prior?
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:19.279
Like, are there certain KPIs or like metrics that you're taking a look at in order to make sure like you guys are going on like that North Star path being like integrated across uh I'd say that access layer?
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:29.680
So for now, I think we're so early stage at this that we are doing like freelance user experience research that we're talking with people still on a one-on-one basis.
00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:34.720
Every few months we pick up conversation with people and get their feedbacks manually.
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:43.119
We do have a UX researcher joining our amidst, so that's gonna get a little better, I think, uh, and more you know, faster for us.
00:31:43.279 --> 00:32:10.640
But I think it is very, very important, especially when you're a product growing a community around you, to pay very close attention to what the community that grows around you is talking about and feels about your tool, because that is going to reflect you know how well your development is going and not just in your head that it looks fine, but your community actually enjoys using the tool and loves to show it, and they are like your ambassadors because they love the product.
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:14.400
That's kind of the goal for the product community pipeline.
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:23.200
I think it's it's the other way around, like if you have a community and you're forming a product within that community, I think it's a little bit different.
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:46.960
But I think in that sense, it is harder to stay on track because there's more it's less centralized in a way, which is good in some ways, but it offers a lot of difficulty in the operational side and the project management side, and and just making sure that the roadmap is clear for everybody and they stay on track with that roadmap.
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:56.400
Yeah, I I think just to kind of sum that up, it's obviously like listening to your community building with them versus building something for them, which we touched upon a little bit earlier uh in our conversation.
00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:04.799
Um brings me to another aspect that I really want to address is like what pain points are keeping like DAOs, users, anyone from using guilds.
00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:08.160
And then yeah, I think that's a good place to kind of kick off.
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:15.839
I think some of the pain points could be what we found is that this is another tool they have to get accustomed to.
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:30.880
And even though we have like very simple UX and we are developing our UX, like evolving it in a way that it even becomes even simpler, it is still something that people have to jump through to get on another platform and look what it does.
00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:34.160
And also we are not really good at communication.
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:43.359
That is something that I know we have to um get better at, and it's part, you know, as being a non-technical co-founder, that's mostly my responsibility.
00:33:43.599 --> 00:34:14.320
But as Robert mentioned, the tool developed in a way that now it does like hundreds of combinations of things uh that you can do and create this immense membership management layer for your whole community, and we're not really communicating that well to people, so I think discovering it is the biggest hurdle, probably, because discovering it and finding out all the things that you can do with it is probably their biggest uh pain point, probably, and it's all our fault.
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:15.840
So we gotta get better at that.
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:19.519
I I fully know that that's something that we have to improve.
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:31.440
Uh other than that, it's like a very simple so the technical side of it is super simple, and that probably has no issues of that friend but the communication.
00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:37.679
So I think that kind of echoes like the broader ecosystem itself is when it comes down to like an education problem.
00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:44.320
Like the technology is there, at least from like the building blocks and the foundation that like you yourselves and everyone else is kind of building in the space.
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:54.880
But really understanding what you can do with these tools and what you can unlock, whether it comes to a certain engagement, what are you tracking, what are you able to kind of like foster when it comes to a community?
00:34:55.199 --> 00:35:05.119
Um, and so I guess since you are the non-technical co-founder, like what kind of educational efforts are you thinking about uh spearheading when it comes to guild and just the broader uh Web3 ecosystem?
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:13.679
What I've seen that you know as coming from a little bit of a social media background too, the rise of video content is also here in Web3.
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:20.480
And now we have Lou that I just discovered a few weeks ago, because a lot of other projects that we are discovering also use that.
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:29.199
So we're doing uh more video about you know just describing how we can do this, how we can do that, and what accommodations you could use.
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:36.800
And we're personalizing those, so we're pulling up like a full database of these videos to send out the specific communities if they have a question.
00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:41.039
So it is very like live help or live description.
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:47.360
But also, we're doing, I really loved how the ENS uh token airdrop went.
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:50.559
I don't know if you did that, but it was like a very clear walkthrough.
00:35:50.719 --> 00:36:03.360
You had to click through everything, so even if I didn't know, now I fully know what the governance is gonna look like, what my token does, how I can uh put my governance onto somebody else and or my governance rights, and I love that.
00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:04.880
That was such cool UX.
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:05.840
It takes some time.
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:13.519
So we're definitely on the on uh the process of developing a guide like that for guild onto the website and everything.
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:18.719
If people wanna you know get more information, they can they can click this through and it's gonna show them everything.
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:35.119
Yeah, not in a documentation that's important to say because our our developers refuse to create a documentation to guild because they're saying we have to keep the product so simple that it doesn't require a documentation, so we can't can start just the documentation thing.
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:40.079
That's a fantastic, like uh it's a no star to keep going to.
00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:47.599
Like it's so simple that nothing needs to ever be written down, and it's just so intuitive for like developers, users, a light communities just to quickly be onboarded.
00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:49.199
Um, I I love that actually.
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:53.280
Like I feel like that's like a great question that I'm gonna start bringing into uh a lot of pitch meetings.
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:56.079
Good for the future.
00:36:56.400 --> 00:37:00.880
So we for the longest time we had that in mind, that kind of UX aspect.
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:05.199
But you know, ever so often we get one or two questions about the UX.
00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:10.960
And you know, some people that are not as veteranative have more issues of getting on boarded.
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:31.679
Um so yeah, for them, we are creating videos, we're creating like documentation and also this click-through thing, which I I think is gonna help for you know different type of interactions if people prefer to see video or being talked to or just log reading something and then use control app to find exactly what they're looking for.
00:37:32.719 --> 00:38:01.599
Yeah, so this is kind of how we're approaching this also with our US research person, who's also a psychologist who's joining us, that's gonna be a very good help for us to really see what we don't see from you know from a personal perspective, what we see from a from a US perspective that we're gonna notice that are issues that are stopping people from using it or leaving them confused or seeing any any other pain points that come up that we don't know about.
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:02.480
I agree.
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:05.199
And maybe to shift years a little bit more.
00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:13.039
Um, I know you guys are kind of going after uh essentially like that access layer and really like commissioned across like the web two, web three, any application that you're working with.
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:18.480
Um and that kind of brings us into like uh understanding and thinking about like what does a social graph look like?
00:38:18.639 --> 00:38:24.320
Obviously, you have kind of the connections that you had in like Facebook, Twitter, and those respective circles that like grew.
00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:30.639
Once you had the news feed, you started seeing like more of like other people you follow, followers uh send out tweets.
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:35.119
How are you guys thinking about kind of the social graph you're creating and kind of this identity layer?
00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:42.320
It's like a new type of membership model, and uh basically that's the only angle of it.
00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:52.800
Uh, we just collect groups of people and and then groups in those groups and and so essentially DAOs, sub-daws, or intersections of DAOs.
00:38:53.039 --> 00:39:02.880
So uh we are really uh focusing on the uh edges of of these communities and uh how they collide.
00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:16.960
Yes, would love to kind of uh well up to you guys if you want to dive into uh I'd say the more privacy aspect because that can open up a whole uh yeah that's that's actually a very difficult question because uh uh from day one we wanted to build this private.
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:35.199
So uh but but obviously for a lot of cases it just doesn't make sense, for example, in a Discord server, uh to run something like this in a fully private way, because uh you cannot run uh a Discord runner, so a Discord bot in a decentralized way currently.
00:39:35.440 --> 00:40:12.400
So then there is always going to be like a party that access uh the connection between the Discord uh handles and and and the addresses, so uh but still privacy because uh because essentially our our wallet addresses are becoming much more than just uh simply financial wallet addresses, they're becoming our our profiles in web free and how we connect with each other, and where did we, I mean, yeah, our DAO profile, where did we enter, where did we leave, uh, where did we invest, and a lot of stuff.
00:40:12.639 --> 00:41:17.679
And uh I think a lot of people still uh don't handle that uh well in a way that uh if you want privacy right now on Ethereum, still it's a it's a public blockchain, you can do that already if you create like a new wallet for all the different things, and we wanted to support this from the very beginning and already have like a multi-address support, and that way essentially you can use different wallets for different things, and when you are joining like a community, even though later on, uh if we want to use it for like uh any social uh stuff or just the owner of the community wants to export like the wallet addresses, uh obviously without the handles, without the Discord handles, just the wallet addresses, they can get their hands on all the other addresses that you have, and that way you can reserve privacy for for a lot of cases, but still join communities, uh participate in whitelists even on Twitter or or just in Discord and through guild.
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:32.400
Um, so it's possible it's possible already to have privacy, but most people just don't care about it, and not just don't care about it in general, but don't care about uh their their profile that's building up on the blockchain.
00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:43.360
So it's a difficult question, and uh we decided to address this with uh uh besides the multi-address support, uh, with like a new lineup of the product.
00:41:43.440 --> 00:42:10.159
So there is going to be like a new version of guild, it's already in development in the background, mostly in design phase, but still, and essentially that that's going to make it possible to have not the 100% same functionality that guild XYZ has, but like 80% of the same functionality in a fully privacy-reserving way, supporting uh secret network and other privacy reserving blockchains as well.
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:14.239
And uh we can talk about the rest later, I think.
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:15.599
Yeah, we can talk about the rest.
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:17.840
So uh what was the initial question?
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:22.159
I was just uh kind of hitting a little bit more on like social graphs itself, but I love kind of where this is going.
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:24.559
So continue with uh everything.
00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:25.440
This is great.
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:58.639
Yeah, we don't really have like a follow feature, or we essentially we don't collect any data on the users, not even a username, or yes, it's essentially nothing, just just the wallet address and pieces of your identity across uh the web and not also talking about commercial APIs like that Discord has, Telegram has, and later on GitHub, YouTube, Twitter, because we are plugging in all these platforms to uh verify uh your actions on these platforms.
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:01.440
I just wanted to like take another step back.
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:07.119
What is missing from the current stack um when it comes to the DAO tooling, um even just Web3 space itself?
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:16.639
Is there anything that you're like, wow, this is a blatant hole needs to be built, um, whether it be the N SDK that can help kind of connect everything or um just something that no one has thought of yet?
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:18.000
A lot of stuff.
00:43:18.159 --> 00:43:44.400
And and from our perspective, the most important thing is portability so that communities don't stick on to some specific thing, but they can move towards so when you create a community and build that community and try to scale it so that you wouldn't be stuck on one platform or one uh tool anymore, that is very much missing from the space for now.
00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:55.760
And that is why we're focusing on this so much that you can take this community and port it anywhere with the same um structure and the same everything.
00:43:56.559 --> 00:43:59.760
That is gonna make life so much easier for people.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:09.199
Who are participating in this culture and this ecosystem and then also you know relating it back to more about two stuff to make it even more simpler.
00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:34.159
But yeah, more about two and really raises the question of how important is privacy because you know but I think that is a great thing to explore with what Robert talked about about before, and when we are like marrying web three things to web two things together, that's gonna help on the privacy front, but still have the ease of web two things.
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:54.320
Yeah, I think interoperability is is one of the most important things that we are missing, and it's uh it's it's it's a big pain point, uh, especially because it should be possible already based on chain data and and on the current infrastructure.
00:44:54.480 --> 00:45:00.559
Uh but I just as I see a lot of builders aren't collaborating enough.
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:19.920
There are like certain groups that share data between us and share true APIs, share any, share all sorts of metadata and stuff, but uh in general uh the tools are still not collaborative, and that because of that, uh the communities are not portable.
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:32.239
And even though they all have their identity already on Ethereum, you just can't bring your community and and your group of people to anywhere else other than where you started it.
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:38.960
What is I guess the um I guess the stopping point from a lot of these protocols importing things over?
00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:48.719
Um is it from a design choice on their side, or is it from I'd say even just the communities or just they want to enhance kind of their internal systems first before really uh making a lot of this uh data public?
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:49.599
Maybe both.
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:50.079
Both.
00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:50.559
Yeah.
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:51.599
Definitely both.
00:45:52.320 --> 00:46:04.880
I know that's the easiest answer, but and also it's I see a tendency that uh everybody wants to build a new platform, a new stuff that others are going to build on top of.
00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:25.519
So they tend to create like their own uh sidechain or own this distributed system instead of building the existing infrastructure or building in cooperation with others, and that just leads to these uh scattered, uh, many, many different tools, it many, many different ideas.
00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:39.599
Uh, we have to accept that still the only decentralized thing is is just the Ethereum blockchain and uh the data on the chain and and uh some some scaling solutions and side chains.
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:46.960
Uh but uh other than that, uh basically everything is just a new experiment.
00:46:48.079 --> 00:46:48.639
I agree.
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:53.280
A lot of stuff is like siloed across so many different um, not even just the chain level from the application level.
00:46:53.360 --> 00:47:05.119
Uh speaking with founders on like a daily occasion, like, oh, this is gonna help us uh for here if we're thinking about kind of like going open source or open sourcing a component of this later on, uh maybe like several months down, potentially years.
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:19.599
So just really getting everyone to agree to like not even one data standard, just but like a couple would be helpful to move forward with in order to really like set the backbone of like some of these uh primitives that we can build on top of to build that kind of like open web3 permissionless feature.
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:24.000
Um, and then to kind of wrap some things up, uh I just got like a few more questions.
00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:28.079
Uh for Gild specifically, like what are you guys most excited for over the next six months?
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:57.760
Ooh, um so we have with Gild, we are building it out with the Our Space, and we're gonna have a bunch of other tools in the works, and I'm the most excited about like connecting it all together to make them independent tools have their own Twitter accounts and their communities and everything fully independent, but still like we're working and like this whole set of things that a founder might need, and like they can use it as they would like to.
00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:06.480
I'm very curious and excited to see how that's gonna be taken and how we might have to switch the idea or turn it around or refine it.
00:48:06.639 --> 00:48:15.360
I you know, launching something is always very exciting, and launching multiple things at the same time I think is uh exponentially more exciting.
00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:17.039
So for me, that's definitely it.
00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:18.159
What is it for you?
00:48:18.719 --> 00:49:18.480
Uh I can't tell if it's uh even going to happen because it's still we are still strategizing about this, uh, but I'm getting very excited about the idea of pivoting from in some ways from Web3 to Web 2, and that's just a ridiculous, ridiculous and provocative uh uh uh sentence, but still essentially I see a lot of things uh that we have in Web3 and would be very useful for a lot of non-tokenized, non-NFT using communities, and that way I'm very excited to hook these communities and then later on incentivize them to start their tokens, start their NFTs, and essentially uh onboard them to Web3 back because guild is obviously always going to stay a Web Free product, so not just uh like at this stage, but it's going to go much, much further.
00:49:18.639 --> 00:49:22.800
We have big plans about how how we can uh decentralize it.
00:49:23.199 --> 00:49:29.280
I mean, this the the uh the the technology from a technological perspective as well, not just socially.
00:49:29.599 --> 00:49:47.599
Uh, but the most exciting thing for me is is how can we uh use it as a bridge for gaming communities, fashion communities, music communities, and all sorts of uh huge communities in on the internet uh to onboard them and uh sorry.
00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:50.559
This could also be a drinking game, this episode of the podcast.
00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:52.880
Drink every time we say community.
00:49:57.039 --> 00:49:59.519
I'd be like keeping track of it, it's a lot.
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:09.920
But um yeah, what when it comes to uh bringing these web 2 communities on board and with some of the aspects that you have in web 3, you mentioned kind of gaming, music.
00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:13.360
Uh are there certain kind of like use cases that guilds is looking at?
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:20.559
You don't have to list them all because I know that could be a little bit inside, but like maybe one or two um from that like hooking and bringing them into web 3.
00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:25.360
Okay, I will say only one specific thing because I don't want to uncover too much.
00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:28.880
Really, it's it's just very important for us now strategically.
00:50:28.960 --> 00:51:12.559
And it's also it's not uh 100% that it's going to happen, but one example uh we can uh uh hook in, uh I mean integrate Steam in a way, Steam, the game platform, that uh we can verify if a user owns uh a game and active in a game and have certain achievements in a game, or if it's even a privately hosted game, we can verify much, much more and essentially prove those those uh things about uh a certain user uh all around uh the internet, basically the platforms that we integrate in, starting with Discord.
00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:36.320
So essentially, communities without even bullet addresses can use will be able to use guild uh to verify a lot of things about their members in the community and then build uh and yeah, build their communities in social media as well, but it's also useful for combating spam, combating scammers, and a lot of other things.
00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:53.920
So it's it's really like a new membership model that's coming from Web3 and uh using it for gaming communities, for example, and and if you combine that with uh uh YouTube, for example, that we can check if you follow a YouTuber or pay for a follower.
00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:58.480
And yeah, maybe that's a second, but that's okay.
00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:06.639
Anyway, yeah, the possibilities are really endless with with membership management.
00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:11.840
We'll leave the breadcrumbs for the rest of the community to uh and the listeners to figure out.
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:14.400
But as you mentioned, the possibilities are pretty endless.
00:52:14.480 --> 00:52:20.639
What you can do when you're thinking about this credential system that can go over uh from web three and back into web two.
00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:24.800
Um, without you spilling anything else, I'll keep uh be mindful of that.
00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:27.679
I just wanted to kind of wrap up with a question.
00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:32.800
So, like on a scale of like one to ten uh on adoption, like where are we uh with web three right now?
00:52:33.039 --> 00:52:35.679
I I hate these numbers, numbers questions.
00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:40.000
I like to joke joke three about this all the time.
00:52:41.119 --> 00:52:42.000
Well, guess what?
00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:44.719
There's a follow-up question, and I can't wait till you say a number.
00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:50.320
So I think you know, subjectively, my opinion, I think it's like three, four.
00:52:54.559 --> 00:53:03.119
Would you personally think that uh Web3 is uh is is almost like just uh buzzword invented by venture capitalists?
00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:10.639
So if we are talking about the buzzword and the adoption, if if it it's it's already out of ten, so probably 11.
00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:14.719
Because we already the whole word adopted it already.
00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:25.119
Uh but if we are thinking about uh like the ownership economy and and uh uh everything related to blockchain, we are still pretty early and uh maybe free.
00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:36.239
Yeah, when it comes to like adopting the uh cryptographic principles, the ownership, and actually like having that kind of community-driven value versus kind of the web to data siphoning value.
00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:39.280
I would agree we're kind of on that like three to four level.
00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:43.360
Um, but like how do we end up kind of even just notching that up like to a five?
00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:45.280
And what does even a 10 look like?
00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:53.599
Uh is it something similar to what you described with like your YouTube, your Steam, where like all these web 2 companies already have these credentials so you can pull them back and forth?
00:53:55.280 --> 00:54:02.159
Uh 10 is probably when ownership is fully pegged to your consciousness.
00:54:02.960 --> 00:54:15.840
So essentially then your seed phrase or whatever the con your connection with the ownership is, it only exists in your head, or or basically wherever your consciousness is.
00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:18.079
And I think that's that's adoption 10.
00:54:18.320 --> 00:54:37.679
Okay, what I would say from a more I think grounded answer is that when your parents are using the type of technology that we are as like pioneers are using today, I think that's when I'm like 10, or when they're like benefiting from it without being active users.
00:54:38.159 --> 00:54:40.639
That's five or six in one of them.
00:54:43.760 --> 00:54:49.599
Yeah, if if 10 is uh consciousness, that is fantastic.
00:54:49.840 --> 00:54:51.840
I was not expecting that.
00:54:52.159 --> 00:55:02.400
I feel like we can have like a whole like several hours essentially, just going deep into like from age six to now of how you're thinking about computers, networks, and all that.
00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:09.760
But it in the essence of time, I do want to uh uh be conscious of all that and just leave you guys with any parting words.
00:55:09.840 --> 00:55:19.519
Um, here's your opportunity, like you've done over the past hour shilling Agora, shilling um guilds, and really understanding like what it means from like the community aspect, how to integrate certain tools.
00:55:19.760 --> 00:55:23.119
So, is there anything else that you'd like to leave the listeners with?
00:55:23.519 --> 00:55:26.239
Um well, use us and give us feedback.
00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:28.320
That's like our most valuable thing at the moment.
00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:29.440
Yeah, just three chart.
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:43.920
Yeah, and also the the tool, the tool, the API and the SVK is coming out as soon as can as we can, and that's gonna speed up integrations from our community side and from our side as well.
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:48.960
That's gonna allow for uh decentralized development, which we're very excited about.
00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:54.880
We just added a new authentication system so we cannot, you know, so it's secure and everything.
00:55:55.360 --> 00:56:00.000
Nobody can come and mess up the whole system just because they put in a new integration.
00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:05.199
So, yeah, uh, for the developers that's more exciting for the founders.
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:06.559
Yeah, reach out to us.
00:56:06.639 --> 00:56:13.760
We are very open people, and uh yeah, we are going after uh meritocratic values.
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:19.760
So if you can provide value, we will make everything to help you in any ways.
00:56:21.039 --> 00:56:23.039
You're so bold with the statement.
00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:25.199
Fantastic way to end this.
00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:28.480
And uh thank you again, Rob and Recca for coming on Ovagora.
00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:33.119
Everyone, check out guild, and if you need to reach out, reach out to either ourselves, them.
00:56:33.280 --> 00:56:38.159
As Robert mentioned, very approachable, um, always in the TMs and fantastic.
00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:40.639
Uh, but yeah, thank you, thank you everyone for joining.
00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:41.840
Um next time.
00:56:42.239 --> 00:56:42.800
Hey everyone.
00:56:42.880 --> 00:56:44.880
Thanks for listening to the Delphi Podcast.
00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:51.920
If you enjoyed it, please support the show by hitting subscribe on your podcast app, writing a review, or sharing this episode on Twitter or LinkedIn.
00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:53.519
Stay tuned for our next episode.
00:56:53.679 --> 00:56:54.719
Out soon.
00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:17.679
What's up, guys?
00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:19.440
Welcome back to the Delphi podcast.
00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:28.399
I'm Tom Sean, it's going to help lead Delphi Ventures as well as host some of the most in-thweeds and thought-provoking guests across crypto, spending layer ones, C5, NFTs, and beyond.
00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:39.200
Also, check out our research on Delphi Digital for miss out of the most compelling research there is up to you.
00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:46.799
As a reminder, nothing said in this podcast is a solicitation to buy or sell any security or token or to make any financial decisions.
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Delphi Ventures may hold tokens mentioned.
00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:52.240
So check out our transparency page in the show notes for more info.
00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:53.759
With that, let's dive in.
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See you guys on the other side.
00:00:57.039 --> 00:00:58.799
Welcome back to the Delphi Podcast.
00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:05.599
This episode is part of our Web3 series where we've invited some of the top minds building and thinking about the space to better understand what is Web3 all about.
00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:12.480
My name is Rob Cerro, and I'm and on this episode, I'm pleased to be joined by Robert Embreca of Agora, and most notably guilds.
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Welcome everyone.
00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:14.799
Hey guys.
00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:16.239
Hey who's going to be here.
00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:27.040
Yeah, so I think like the best place to kind of start off is like before jumping into everything, Web3, would love for both of you to kind of tell me about yourselves, how you found down the crypto rabbit hole, and then uh what led you guys to start Agora.
00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:43.439
I'm originally a veterinarian, which has nothing to do with this phase, but that kind of allowed me to explore more territories because it it is a you know pretty broad category, so I kind of started doing digital marketing and social media for a little bit.
00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:56.239
But I got into the Ethereum ecosystem in 2016 when I was volunteering in Sweden at a meditation retreat place, and the host that I was staying with was fully into crypto back then.
00:01:56.799 --> 00:01:58.159
And he introduced me to it.
00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:01.680
Since then I've been following along, investing and everything.
00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:12.800
But I only found out and realized that crypto is not just DeFi, but it's more social and you know, Daos and everything in 2020 winter.
00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:24.479
We started working together last year, January, so in 2021, and uh yeah, we co-founded Agora and then Guild last year, and yeah, go on with your engineering.
00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:26.240
Yeah, I'm Rob, I'm a nerd.
00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:44.240
I I got into programming when I was just six, and that's because my father co-founded one of the first Hungarian internet provider companies, and because of this, I basically grew up on the internet, and uh I discovered Bitcoin fairly early, uh, but only joined the space in 2013.
00:02:44.479 --> 00:03:03.439
As a Dogecoin supporter, I just found it hilarious, and I uh wanted to invest all my savings from ThreadFee to Dogecoin immediately, and it turned out to be a good it was a good investment, but eventually I I lost almost all my investments during the next year in 2014.
00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:05.520
Uh, it was a really shit show.
00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:12.159
Uh but then later on we started uh started a family office and also a family software firm.
00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:16.719
Uh I ran the family office and my little brother ran the software firm.
00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:40.800
Uh, and and basically the two companies grew out from just being a small uh firm to a 20-plus people operation, and uh we invest in early stage companies, but then I always wanted to get back to building, and uh, because my main passion in the space has always been the DAO, DAO space, and that's what attracted me to Ethereum at the first space.
00:03:40.960 --> 00:04:16.800
When the DAO hack happened, that was the uh the point when I decided to fully dive deep into Ethereum because it just looks so is so interesting, and uh essentially it was a disappointment because most of these DAO-related companies uh didn't deliver what they promised, and and I wanted to uh do something uh else, something uh from another perspective, and we started out started building out uh DAO tooling, DAO tools uh uh which are more focused on the user experience.
00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:31.759
And uh these tools are mostly off-chain, so basically live where the users are and uh doesn't require basically complicated uh stuff from the early users, from the beginning beginner users all the time.
00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:34.720
Now, one one thing I want to like uh kind of jump into.
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I noticed like if you go to Agora's like Twitter page, it'll show that it's a studio DAO and like kind of what you just described was essentially like, oh, we're gonna be building these different products here and there.
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What was kind of like the choices before that?
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And I guess to kind of make a step into guilds, um, what is uh I guess like guilds itself?
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What is Agora to kind of hit on uh that point right now?
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So initially, I think you know, jumping off of what Robert just touched on is that the full Agora vision back last year was coming out of this uh pain point that the frameworks didn't really satisfy, and we saw how the communities don't really like operating within the platforms and being you know logged into walled gardens in that sense.
00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:38.560
And so the first agora vision was definitely that we wanted to uh build tools and this very independent, very interoperable set of toolkits that are supporting founders to allow anybody to create and handle and scale their communities in a very modular and free way that suits their communities.
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So you know, giving back this actual sovereignty to the communities that you know Web3 offers and it's a vision and mission, we wanted to be fully aligned with that because that's what we believe in as well.
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And so that's where we started.
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And the whole Aquora vision was a little too much at the same time.
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So we wanted to do a lot of things at the same time.
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So last year we kind of struggled with our vision with Aquora, and coming out of that, we we went to Paris last year to each before, and we started talking to a lot of people and got a lot of useful feedback and then continued to you know jump around our idea a bit or jump it off of people.
00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:51.759
And in August, when the LUT project, this NFT project was kind of hyped, we kind of found our holy grail or the core or MVP for Agora, which was Gil XYZ, which is the very first tool and a very simple, very easy to understand tool, which is basically at first, it was just to bring up these party chats for people who share similar blockchain assets with a specific, very specific blockchain asset, so NFPs based on trade.
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So like only crypto punks with cigarettes in their mouth, that that type of specific uh specificity.
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And that was the core idea, and we pushed it out into the open in early September.
00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:14.079
The guys built it here in like nine days once we had the idea of what we wanted to look like, and obviously we had the base of it for Agora already.
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We just had to specify it and make it more clear with a cool UX.
00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:46.319
And yeah, well, before Guild, we more like wanted to build an integration layer between the tools that we found very useful because we saw an emerging new class of off-chain uh DAO-related tools like uh SourceCred, uh Collabend, and uh and many a snapshot uh the Gnosis and not just off-chain, but still essential tools uh like the Gnosis Multi-Sig.
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But all of these tools were very separated, and initially we wanted to build like an integration layer between the possible tools uh with a swap in, swap out.
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So essentially, if you want to use this multi-sig instead of this multi-sig, you can do that and still connect all of this together and provide a more uh a more full feature experience.
00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:18.959
But then we realized that these tools are not just scattered but also quite closed in their own ecosystem.
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So we decided to start building our own uh tools that are very simple, build on very simple fundamentals, and also these tools are more like a sandbox type of uh uh products, not uh not uh a framework type of products.
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And and that's where we started with guild.
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We wanted to create a tool that's that that is very uh uh modular, that is capable to do uh things that we we we didn't uh imagine even.
00:08:52.639 --> 00:09:07.519
No, I was actually gonna touch upon something that you said a little bit earlier when it came to like kind of the freedom of web 3 and what you're describing now is essentially like giving users and giving the community the ability to kind of like build out with the modular for or for lack of a better word, framework that you guys built.
00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:12.799
So um was just wanted to kind of circle that into like how are you guys viewing web 3?
00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:17.120
Um, and would love to kind of then circle back on that point that you just uh were about to mention, Rika.
00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:32.000
So we fully saw like we we are very much aligned with what Web3 initially wanted, which is very you know decentralized, very revolutionary socially, and on the infrastructure section, and provisionalized.
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That's very very important.
00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:34.320
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:37.840
So that's you know precisely what we're going for.
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Uh we have to say that it's not possible or probably not very functional to do everything at the same time.
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So now we're focusing on building out a toolkit that will allow us to be way more horizontal and way more innovative on the social side of things as well.
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But we definitely have it in mind to be very easy to use, very accessible, as cheap as possible, and permissionless for our users.
00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:13.200
And that's kind of what our like monetary or like uh how do you say that?
00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:16.000
Like the financial side of the tools and everything.
00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:20.000
So we only fully free for the users because we want to keep it that way.
00:10:20.320 --> 00:11:31.919
Um and that is also like the core idea behind our tools, is what you said to be permissionless and easy to use and easy to access, and very modular for each community to fit themselves, kind of also Rayka mentioned the loot project that it's that it inspired us a lot because uh we initially kind of built guild for for the loot communities, communities around loot, and we built it in the same philosophy to give it to the community, make something very simple, something uh um uh yeah, I mean, stupid simple and and without any uh unnecessary stuff, and just let them do whatever they want to do with it, and then we immediately transferred, I mean, yeah, give the opportunity to the community to control the development process, and that's still the core of the of the of the guild idea that it it started out as a very simple tool that does only one thing, and the community uh controls the direction of the new features and the new integrations and all this stuff.
00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:45.679
Yeah, because back on the on the point, so we put it out in the open in September, and since then we've talked to thousands of people in DMs, and we've built our own community of mostly founders or soon-to-be founders in the space.
00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:56.879
Um and it's been a very interesting ride to build with together with the community and make the full like evolution of our tool out in the open.
00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:12.320
Now we have our now we're out of alpha phase as well, and we also have our public roadmap that is managed by full in the community, so anybody can come submit a feature request or an integration, upload it so it's more you know higher up on the priority list.
00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:33.759
And this way they have a like we have more of a possibility to be less in just our own little circles of influence and go what we think is right and have the ability to listen to more people from our community, even if we don't have the capacity to talk to one-on-one with everybody anymore, we still have like an open conversation portal with them.
00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:35.120
That's amazing.
00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:42.639
I remember like speaking to you guys back in September when LIBE came out, understanding kind of like, oh, this makes so much sense to onboard these various communities in such a simple way.
00:12:42.960 --> 00:13:00.559
And you were one of probably the first teams to actually be thinking about the human component when it comes to these communities, where I feel like a lot of teams working with DAOs or just working from the tooling space, they're more or less like solving or looking back towards like web two to understand, like, okay, this occurred in this uh kind of time period, this technological period.
00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:02.000
How do we bring this to Web3?
00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:03.519
And what does that exactly look like?
00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:13.200
And just kind of building it versus kind of working with the communities, understanding certain pain points, and what you can really like strip down and understand from like a crypto perspective, what can be built here?
00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:19.919
So I feel like you guys also focus specifically on like that first impression and that easy onboarding process.
00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:28.960
So, kind of what went into the decision making for uh guilds itself to make it as like really simple as possible to get people to be onboarded and yeah.
00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:56.320
You're just answering the first part because actually I think it's very funny because in our case it almost works the the opposite way that we recognize is very important stuff in Web3, and then now we are thinking about how we can implement it in Web2 and then give it to uh more communities and onboard more communities from Web2 with these new uh opportunities and new features, new kind of features.
00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:59.919
So yeah, it's it's it's very interesting.
00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:14.320
Uh, and it's only possible this way when we always looked at what's possible and not what what what are the problems or what can we do again, what others did in Web2 or in the history.
00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:16.320
So what was the second part?
00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:28.159
Yeah, the second part is why we why did we decide to to keep it as simple as yeah uh I think I I touched that uh already.
00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:47.919
It's basically a philosophical, it was initially like a philosophical thing, uh, but it was also came from from our frustration with the existing ecosystem uh and our personal experiences with with some of the tools and not just in Web3, with software in general.
00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:55.200
I grew up in a family where uh basically open source software using Linux was the norm and still the norm.
00:14:55.440 --> 00:15:00.320
So uh we always uh uh mastered our products and not the other way.
00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:14.480
It was very important, it's it's very important for my family to um yeah, basically to be the master of the software and and don't let the software control control us or or steal our data and and other stuff.
00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:21.120
So uh yeah, it it was very uh it was in it was an easy choice for me.
00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:31.440
And that kind of brings me to uh my next question is like what are some of the things that you can do with Agora with guilds in Web3 that like web two companies just can't even do?
00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:45.039
Um and it was interesting how you mentioned before is where like you've understood like what can be possible or kind of what is the creativity aspect you can bring in web 3, and how do you bring it backwards towards web 2, which is a lot different than a lot uh many people are thinking about in the space.
00:15:45.440 --> 00:16:02.799
Uh yeah, so we are thinking about uh uh access control and now membership management a lot, uh, because all the DAO space makes it possible to uh for association of people to work to come together and work together in a fully revolutionary way.
00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:08.240
And we are still experimenting as a collective on on the social front.
00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:09.279
How does that work?
00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:33.759
Because uh the human nature still requires a lot of trust, but we are using we started using uh uh a technology that that's trustless, and uh some of I mean uh that uh that could cheat us uh in a way that uh some people think that we can just rely on the technology purely, but that's that's clearly not true.
00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:37.679
We saw it uh with with big hacks like code is not low.
00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:43.440
So this is this is a constant uh uh uh our argument in the web free space.
00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:51.759
And uh I think the human component is not uh there yet where our technology is at the moment.
00:16:52.159 --> 00:17:05.920
So it's very important to build stuff that's that's uh easy to adopt uh and and easy to accept for uh non-technical people and non-believers of the crypto space.
00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:17.119
And uh but still, on the other hand, there are certain things that just make make the internet and like the login experiment, login experience so simple.
00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:48.960
Uh, probably everyone knows this in Web3, but essentially logging in with Ethereum is just the simplest thing possible on the internet right now, and that's for example something that we really want to bring back to Vec2 as well, and not just logging in, but also uh creating like an authorization layer uh and and the hierarchies uh behind the scenes uh based on on-chain parameters to Vec2 products, and I think that's that's a great uh opportunity here.
00:17:49.279 --> 00:18:01.519
But I think if I can add here is that what we have in VEP2 with like G Suite, so like Google, that you can log in with your email address with your Gmail account anywhere.
00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:15.680
We are adding that layer, so we're building out this full infrastructure to bridge a community and the membership structure across Veb3 platforms and Av2 platforms as well.
00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:35.359
So having this element of your email address login or that possibility, and adding on top of that all the things that Web3 has to offer, like ownership, this incredible layout of communities of made up of uh a lot of trustless stuff, but also like way more trusted stuff, if that makes sense.
00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:56.720
So like on the financial side and on the voting side and governance side, and ownership, which is so much talked about, but I think almost not enough still, because us like basically owning a company, owning everything together that our community is building, is a crazy, crazy advantage of Web3.
00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:10.079
And we're like combining this with the Web2 Web2 things, or like trying to do that since we have the Web3 element, now we're trying to connect it with more Web2 so it is more familiar and even more accessible for everybody.
00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:29.119
But yeah, so like combining the Web3 vision, the Web3 accessibility and ownership with the convenience of Web2 stuff is very exciting for us, and that is our aim to do this year so that we have a base to grow from socially as well.
00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:35.839
As Robert said, that the social structures and the like hierarchies within the DAOs and how we work together is not quite there yet.
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:45.680
We still have some room to grow on the technical side, and that's what we are trying to pioneer and you know drive and push further.
00:19:46.000 --> 00:20:11.119
Yeah, I agree with Rayka that uh the trustless ownership is basically the biggest advantage of this era, the whole web-free uh technology stack, that we can own uh and own assets and and own uh tokens and NFTs already, but we still don't own our identity, we still don't own uh a lot of our uh uh social data.
00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:16.480
And uh essentially, yeah, that that's what I wanted to touch on.
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:18.880
That it's it's just still a huge opportunity.
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:29.599
Before we kind of jump over to kind of the social identity and everything else, I want to take a step back and just look at a high-level view of we've mess mentioned essentially like treasury management and like multi-sigs at Nosis Safe.
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:34.000
We mentioned like coordinate uh source cred from like the contribution uh layer.
00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:37.920
What is kind of like this full stack or what does the tech stack look like for a DAO?
00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:43.119
If I wanted to start something right now, like what are kind of those like high-level components that you're looking to add?
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:49.599
Um, because I know this is something that a lot of teams, DAOs, even just the curious, are trying to figure out there's so many tools in the space.
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:50.960
Like, what what do I start with?
00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:53.039
What do I need in order to like get started?
00:20:53.839 --> 00:21:00.400
Yeah, so uh I think that fully depends on what your community or your group is going to do.
00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:07.759
I think the most simplest version is to definitely have a comfortable chat where you can talk with each other for a lot of communities.
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:12.079
That is Discord for now and or Telegram for certain other things.
00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:17.759
So have that established a cool server where you guys are comfortable and can talk to each other freely.
00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:35.200
And then on top of that, you should definitely have some sort of cohesion that's given giving more like community ownership, but without you having to go through the process of launching a token or an NFT because that can be kind of you know um complicated and expensive sometimes.
00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:42.559
So I would definitely recommend um getting um into blog, maybe, because that's free.
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:53.920
And it is something that people can collect in their addresses and their wallets and then have more um community cohesion and something that you guys are doing together and has some blockchain aspect.
00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:59.759
And for that, I think later I would still like have some sort of access control or membership.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:09.279
Management like Guild XYZ and then also have some something where you guys are managing your community and what you guys are doing.
00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:16.000
So maybe a notion or a clarity is really great for project management for web three communities and DAOs.
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:18.480
I think what else?
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:20.799
I just have a different opinion.
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:22.400
Okay, good.
00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:26.480
Because from a technology I welcome it all.
00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:36.960
Because from a technology perspective, if we're really talking about uh DAOs, then the entry level is just so high.
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:44.640
Uh we essentially can say that most of these communities right now are DAOs that we have in the space.
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:56.240
In my personal opinion, one of the uh I mean one of the few DAOs is like the Ethereum ecosystem and the miners in Ethereum in Ethereum because essentially a DAO, what is a DAO?
00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:02.400
It should be decentralized, it should be autonomous, and it should be an association of people.
00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:10.319
And that requires like a massive community to be really to be really decentralized and really autonomous.
00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:14.559
It's just so difficult to reach it, reach that point.
00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:24.160
I think most of these communities are heading to become a DAO one day, but uh still 99% aren't DAOs at all.
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:27.279
They are just a new wave of internet communities.
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:44.240
I would call them modern communities on the internet, and that's perfectly fine, in my opinion, because the technology is iterating so fast, we we just can't uh yeah comprehend so many new things and so many new uh um for well no, sorry.
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:46.240
How do you say for no?
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:47.200
Ah shit, okay.
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:48.480
I language barrier.
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:50.319
Language barrier, sorry.
00:23:50.559 --> 00:24:17.920
So yeah, but if we if we call those just the communities in Web3, uh then again from a technology perspective, uh it could be like just a communication channel, or it could be like just a fancy multi-sig, or just uh boring multi-sig or even some cryptography where you can sign and with some threshold encryption you can uh make decisions together.
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:25.599
So it can be really primitive or or just very traditional, like creating a new chat room.
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:36.960
But on the aspect of the stack, like the tools that you need to use, I think that changes like every three months since the like the improvements and evolution of the DAO tooling space is really fast.
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:39.440
So you gotta keep up with the trends.
00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:49.599
Um I just checked, like we were talking the other day about what projects do we want to integrate next, or you know, first when we have our API out in this next few weeks.
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:52.799
And I looked through everybody that we talked with since September.
00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:58.400
Like I have an Excel sheet of everybody that you know needs more contact or we want to talk to later.
00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:01.200
But a few of them are not even around anymore.
00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:10.400
So you gotta really, really be on the like on your tippy toes to know everything that is going on in the Dow tooling space.
00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:20.480
And I'm I I'm very curious to see what's gonna stick and stay around for another year or another few years and evolve with the communities that are here and their needs.
00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:25.119
You you read my mind because the next thing I was gonna go into is kind of like the stickiness of all these tools.
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:38.640
Like I know a while back uh I kind of posted like just a high level of where are the tools located across a couple chains, understanding like what is um available for like the knowledge management, what's available from treasury management, what framework can you even use?
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:40.000
What about token gating?
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:46.640
Um, and there was over 250, and then another 70 individuals or projects reached out, and I think the list is growing and growing at this point.
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:54.000
So, do you see kind of like the space continuing to push experimentation, or are you gonna uh see over time like some form of consolidation?
00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:58.799
And what do you think are kind of those like pivotal factors that lead to uh consolidation if you go that route?
00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:12.880
I think it really depends on adoption, uh, one way, but also I expect uh a lot of these tools are going to just stop being developed at some point, and uh new tools are going to appear.
00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:28.000
And I sadly expect that the new tools are gonna be less uh uh uh decentralized and then probably will uh uh have more features uh uh glued together.
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:30.880
So basically more and more tools are becoming.
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:41.839
I think the tools are are going to become more complex and more platform-like and and more um yeah, more good for different tests, different things.
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:51.200
Uh but yeah, one touching one more thing from the last question, uh the DAO definitely requires a lot, a hell lot of people.
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:53.680
So it just doesn't work any other way.
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:59.680
If you if you don't have like hundreds of active participants, it cannot become a DAO in any way.
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:17.440
Uh and that also uh in I mean because of that, uh the tools and and the tools used by the by the DAO, uh, they are getting dropped out and new tools getting in because of with the community.
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:36.880
When new community members join, they will start build or or bring their own tools from elsewhere, and that's just uh an organic way to for the communities to discover new and new opportunities and and better tools and and then uh basically evolve their uh cooperation.
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:38.319
Uh Rico?
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:57.200
I think on the consolidation and like experiment experimentation and consolidation um factor, I think we're gonna go in like cycles until we reach so like more tools being um experimentative and coming out super fast about different things and like very simple.
00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:00.400
I think kind of like what Gil did the like very one thing.
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.720
I think a lot of the tools are gonna come out like that way.
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:08.960
I think we saw that during last season, since like last autumn till like January, maybe.
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:19.279
And then I think we're gonna get saturated with that with the new things, and then the projects that didn't make it are gonna like fall off and maybe come back later.
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:24.880
And I think this is gonna lead to being more platform-oriented.
00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:25.759
What Robert said.
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:43.200
I think people are gonna have the need after trying all these tools and like using 20-something or like I don't know, five to ten tools to manage their communities, they're gonna be more favored towards platforms again, and then get sick of platforms because of being logged in, and then the experimentative tools are gonna come back again.
00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:57.599
And I think we're gonna do this cycle in a little bit changed way until we reach the point where the technology of platforms or the technology is as decentralized as we want it to be and as modular as we want it to be.
00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:03.759
And until then, I think communities are gonna keep experimenting and then going back to the safe things.
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:12.000
I think that's gonna be like a cycle until we reach that point for the social and the technical uh advantages to match each other.
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:38.079
I I remember how big of a disappointment was it for me as a child when I realized that people aren't using uh Linux because they don't know about it, but because they they don't want to take the effort to learn the Unix uh commands and uh learn the hundreds of pages of documentation about uh the system, the operating system.
00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:43.359
So they use Windows or now unrelatable user experience about it.
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:46.240
No, I mean so that was at age six, right?
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:50.000
No, it was more recently.
00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:57.200
Um for a long time I really believe that people don't use Linux only because they don't know how how awesome it is.
00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:06.240
Yeah, I I have to uh full full confession here, I do not use Linux um for some of the concerns that are some of the points that you raised.
00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:14.240
Um I do like the kind of simplicity, and I do kind of agree with like the platforming and unbundling and rebundling, just the classic cycle of like how like startup innovation.
00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:18.480
But I I'll make an effort over this year to at least take a look into the links for you.
00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:20.880
No promises in using it though.
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:26.319
Yeah, I'm I was saying this because uh I think guild is like a Unix command.
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:33.599
It's a very simple tool, it's capable to do hundreds of different things already, and the possibilities are extending.
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:42.240
Uh, but I know that people are attracted to simple platforms that have everything that they need immediately.
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:50.799
So I expect to move move into that direction for guild as well, if if we want to stay relevant for the users.
00:30:51.039 --> 00:31:00.400
And speaking of like that community aspect, like how important is it for like DAOs, uh the contributors to really, or I'd say like more of like the leadership level of a DAO to kind of focus on the community?
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:08.160
What experiences are needed to be there to get like the most value out of a product, say like guilds or any of the various tools that we've mentioned prior?
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:19.279
Like, are there certain KPIs or like metrics that you're taking a look at in order to make sure like you guys are going on like that North Star path being like integrated across uh I'd say that access layer?
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:29.680
So for now, I think we're so early stage at this that we are doing like freelance user experience research that we're talking with people still on a one-on-one basis.
00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:34.720
Every few months we pick up conversation with people and get their feedbacks manually.
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:43.119
We do have a UX researcher joining our amidst, so that's gonna get a little better, I think, uh, and more you know, faster for us.
00:31:43.279 --> 00:32:10.640
But I think it is very, very important, especially when you're a product growing a community around you, to pay very close attention to what the community that grows around you is talking about and feels about your tool, because that is going to reflect you know how well your development is going and not just in your head that it looks fine, but your community actually enjoys using the tool and loves to show it, and they are like your ambassadors because they love the product.
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:14.400
That's kind of the goal for the product community pipeline.
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:23.200
I think it's it's the other way around, like if you have a community and you're forming a product within that community, I think it's a little bit different.
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:46.960
But I think in that sense, it is harder to stay on track because there's more it's less centralized in a way, which is good in some ways, but it offers a lot of difficulty in the operational side and the project management side, and and just making sure that the roadmap is clear for everybody and they stay on track with that roadmap.
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:56.400
Yeah, I I think just to kind of sum that up, it's obviously like listening to your community building with them versus building something for them, which we touched upon a little bit earlier uh in our conversation.
00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:04.799
Um brings me to another aspect that I really want to address is like what pain points are keeping like DAOs, users, anyone from using guilds.
00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:08.160
And then yeah, I think that's a good place to kind of kick off.
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:15.839
I think some of the pain points could be what we found is that this is another tool they have to get accustomed to.
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:30.880
And even though we have like very simple UX and we are developing our UX, like evolving it in a way that it even becomes even simpler, it is still something that people have to jump through to get on another platform and look what it does.
00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:34.160
And also we are not really good at communication.
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:43.359
That is something that I know we have to um get better at, and it's part, you know, as being a non-technical co-founder, that's mostly my responsibility.
00:33:43.599 --> 00:34:14.320
But as Robert mentioned, the tool developed in a way that now it does like hundreds of combinations of things uh that you can do and create this immense membership management layer for your whole community, and we're not really communicating that well to people, so I think discovering it is the biggest hurdle, probably, because discovering it and finding out all the things that you can do with it is probably their biggest uh pain point, probably, and it's all our fault.
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:15.840
So we gotta get better at that.
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:19.519
I I fully know that that's something that we have to improve.
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:31.440
Uh other than that, it's like a very simple so the technical side of it is super simple, and that probably has no issues of that friend but the communication.
00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:37.679
So I think that kind of echoes like the broader ecosystem itself is when it comes down to like an education problem.
00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:44.320
Like the technology is there, at least from like the building blocks and the foundation that like you yourselves and everyone else is kind of building in the space.
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:54.880
But really understanding what you can do with these tools and what you can unlock, whether it comes to a certain engagement, what are you tracking, what are you able to kind of like foster when it comes to a community?
00:34:55.199 --> 00:35:05.119
Um, and so I guess since you are the non-technical co-founder, like what kind of educational efforts are you thinking about uh spearheading when it comes to guild and just the broader uh Web3 ecosystem?
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:13.679
What I've seen that you know as coming from a little bit of a social media background too, the rise of video content is also here in Web3.
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:20.480
And now we have Lou that I just discovered a few weeks ago, because a lot of other projects that we are discovering also use that.
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:29.199
So we're doing uh more video about you know just describing how we can do this, how we can do that, and what accommodations you could use.
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:36.800
And we're personalizing those, so we're pulling up like a full database of these videos to send out the specific communities if they have a question.
00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:41.039
So it is very like live help or live description.
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:47.360
But also, we're doing, I really loved how the ENS uh token airdrop went.
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:50.559
I don't know if you did that, but it was like a very clear walkthrough.
00:35:50.719 --> 00:36:03.360
You had to click through everything, so even if I didn't know, now I fully know what the governance is gonna look like, what my token does, how I can uh put my governance onto somebody else and or my governance rights, and I love that.
00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:04.880
That was such cool UX.
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:05.840
It takes some time.
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:13.519
So we're definitely on the on uh the process of developing a guide like that for guild onto the website and everything.
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:18.719
If people wanna you know get more information, they can they can click this through and it's gonna show them everything.
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:35.119
Yeah, not in a documentation that's important to say because our our developers refuse to create a documentation to guild because they're saying we have to keep the product so simple that it doesn't require a documentation, so we can't can start just the documentation thing.
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:40.079
That's a fantastic, like uh it's a no star to keep going to.
00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:47.599
Like it's so simple that nothing needs to ever be written down, and it's just so intuitive for like developers, users, a light communities just to quickly be onboarded.
00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:49.199
Um, I I love that actually.
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:53.280
Like I feel like that's like a great question that I'm gonna start bringing into uh a lot of pitch meetings.
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:56.079
Good for the future.
00:36:56.400 --> 00:37:00.880
So we for the longest time we had that in mind, that kind of UX aspect.
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:05.199
But you know, ever so often we get one or two questions about the UX.
00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:10.960
And you know, some people that are not as veteranative have more issues of getting on boarded.
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:31.679
Um so yeah, for them, we are creating videos, we're creating like documentation and also this click-through thing, which I I think is gonna help for you know different type of interactions if people prefer to see video or being talked to or just log reading something and then use control app to find exactly what they're looking for.
00:37:32.719 --> 00:38:01.599
Yeah, so this is kind of how we're approaching this also with our US research person, who's also a psychologist who's joining us, that's gonna be a very good help for us to really see what we don't see from you know from a personal perspective, what we see from a from a US perspective that we're gonna notice that are issues that are stopping people from using it or leaving them confused or seeing any any other pain points that come up that we don't know about.
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:02.480
I agree.
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:05.199
And maybe to shift years a little bit more.
00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:13.039
Um, I know you guys are kind of going after uh essentially like that access layer and really like commissioned across like the web two, web three, any application that you're working with.
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:18.480
Um and that kind of brings us into like uh understanding and thinking about like what does a social graph look like?
00:38:18.639 --> 00:38:24.320
Obviously, you have kind of the connections that you had in like Facebook, Twitter, and those respective circles that like grew.
00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:30.639
Once you had the news feed, you started seeing like more of like other people you follow, followers uh send out tweets.
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:35.119
How are you guys thinking about kind of the social graph you're creating and kind of this identity layer?
00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:42.320
It's like a new type of membership model, and uh basically that's the only angle of it.
00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:52.800
Uh, we just collect groups of people and and then groups in those groups and and so essentially DAOs, sub-daws, or intersections of DAOs.
00:38:53.039 --> 00:39:02.880
So uh we are really uh focusing on the uh edges of of these communities and uh how they collide.
00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:16.960
Yes, would love to kind of uh well up to you guys if you want to dive into uh I'd say the more privacy aspect because that can open up a whole uh yeah that's that's actually a very difficult question because uh uh from day one we wanted to build this private.
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:35.199
So uh but but obviously for a lot of cases it just doesn't make sense, for example, in a Discord server, uh to run something like this in a fully private way, because uh you cannot run uh a Discord runner, so a Discord bot in a decentralized way currently.
00:39:35.440 --> 00:40:12.400
So then there is always going to be like a party that access uh the connection between the Discord uh handles and and and the addresses, so uh but still privacy because uh because essentially our our wallet addresses are becoming much more than just uh simply financial wallet addresses, they're becoming our our profiles in web free and how we connect with each other, and where did we, I mean, yeah, our DAO profile, where did we enter, where did we leave, uh, where did we invest, and a lot of stuff.
00:40:12.639 --> 00:41:17.679
And uh I think a lot of people still uh don't handle that uh well in a way that uh if you want privacy right now on Ethereum, still it's a it's a public blockchain, you can do that already if you create like a new wallet for all the different things, and we wanted to support this from the very beginning and already have like a multi-address support, and that way essentially you can use different wallets for different things, and when you are joining like a community, even though later on, uh if we want to use it for like uh any social uh stuff or just the owner of the community wants to export like the wallet addresses, uh obviously without the handles, without the Discord handles, just the wallet addresses, they can get their hands on all the other addresses that you have, and that way you can reserve privacy for for a lot of cases, but still join communities, uh participate in whitelists even on Twitter or or just in Discord and through guild.
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:32.400
Um, so it's possible it's possible already to have privacy, but most people just don't care about it, and not just don't care about it in general, but don't care about uh their their profile that's building up on the blockchain.
00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:43.360
So it's a difficult question, and uh we decided to address this with uh uh besides the multi-address support, uh, with like a new lineup of the product.
00:41:43.440 --> 00:42:10.159
So there is going to be like a new version of guild, it's already in development in the background, mostly in design phase, but still, and essentially that that's going to make it possible to have not the 100% same functionality that guild XYZ has, but like 80% of the same functionality in a fully privacy-reserving way, supporting uh secret network and other privacy reserving blockchains as well.
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:14.239
And uh we can talk about the rest later, I think.
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:15.599
Yeah, we can talk about the rest.
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:17.840
So uh what was the initial question?
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:22.159
I was just uh kind of hitting a little bit more on like social graphs itself, but I love kind of where this is going.
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:24.559
So continue with uh everything.
00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:25.440
This is great.
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:58.639
Yeah, we don't really have like a follow feature, or we essentially we don't collect any data on the users, not even a username, or yes, it's essentially nothing, just just the wallet address and pieces of your identity across uh the web and not also talking about commercial APIs like that Discord has, Telegram has, and later on GitHub, YouTube, Twitter, because we are plugging in all these platforms to uh verify uh your actions on these platforms.
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:01.440
I just wanted to like take another step back.
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:07.119
What is missing from the current stack um when it comes to the DAO tooling, um even just Web3 space itself?
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:16.639
Is there anything that you're like, wow, this is a blatant hole needs to be built, um, whether it be the N SDK that can help kind of connect everything or um just something that no one has thought of yet?
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:18.000
A lot of stuff.
00:43:18.159 --> 00:43:44.400
And and from our perspective, the most important thing is portability so that communities don't stick on to some specific thing, but they can move towards so when you create a community and build that community and try to scale it so that you wouldn't be stuck on one platform or one uh tool anymore, that is very much missing from the space for now.
00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:55.760
And that is why we're focusing on this so much that you can take this community and port it anywhere with the same um structure and the same everything.
00:43:56.559 --> 00:43:59.760
That is gonna make life so much easier for people.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:09.199
Who are participating in this culture and this ecosystem and then also you know relating it back to more about two stuff to make it even more simpler.
00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:34.159
But yeah, more about two and really raises the question of how important is privacy because you know but I think that is a great thing to explore with what Robert talked about about before, and when we are like marrying web three things to web two things together, that's gonna help on the privacy front, but still have the ease of web two things.
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:54.320
Yeah, I think interoperability is is one of the most important things that we are missing, and it's uh it's it's it's a big pain point, uh, especially because it should be possible already based on chain data and and on the current infrastructure.
00:44:54.480 --> 00:45:00.559
Uh but I just as I see a lot of builders aren't collaborating enough.
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:19.920
There are like certain groups that share data between us and share true APIs, share any, share all sorts of metadata and stuff, but uh in general uh the tools are still not collaborative, and that because of that, uh the communities are not portable.
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:32.239
And even though they all have their identity already on Ethereum, you just can't bring your community and and your group of people to anywhere else other than where you started it.
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:38.960
What is I guess the um I guess the stopping point from a lot of these protocols importing things over?
00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:48.719
Um is it from a design choice on their side, or is it from I'd say even just the communities or just they want to enhance kind of their internal systems first before really uh making a lot of this uh data public?
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:49.599
Maybe both.
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:50.079
Both.
00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:50.559
Yeah.
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:51.599
Definitely both.
00:45:52.320 --> 00:46:04.880
I know that's the easiest answer, but and also it's I see a tendency that uh everybody wants to build a new platform, a new stuff that others are going to build on top of.
00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:25.519
So they tend to create like their own uh sidechain or own this distributed system instead of building the existing infrastructure or building in cooperation with others, and that just leads to these uh scattered, uh, many, many different tools, it many, many different ideas.
00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:39.599
Uh, we have to accept that still the only decentralized thing is is just the Ethereum blockchain and uh the data on the chain and and uh some some scaling solutions and side chains.
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:46.960
Uh but uh other than that, uh basically everything is just a new experiment.
00:46:48.079 --> 00:46:48.639
I agree.
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:53.280
A lot of stuff is like siloed across so many different um, not even just the chain level from the application level.
00:46:53.360 --> 00:47:05.119
Uh speaking with founders on like a daily occasion, like, oh, this is gonna help us uh for here if we're thinking about kind of like going open source or open sourcing a component of this later on, uh maybe like several months down, potentially years.
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:19.599
So just really getting everyone to agree to like not even one data standard, just but like a couple would be helpful to move forward with in order to really like set the backbone of like some of these uh primitives that we can build on top of to build that kind of like open web3 permissionless feature.
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:24.000
Um, and then to kind of wrap some things up, uh I just got like a few more questions.
00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:28.079
Uh for Gild specifically, like what are you guys most excited for over the next six months?
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:57.760
Ooh, um so we have with Gild, we are building it out with the Our Space, and we're gonna have a bunch of other tools in the works, and I'm the most excited about like connecting it all together to make them independent tools have their own Twitter accounts and their communities and everything fully independent, but still like we're working and like this whole set of things that a founder might need, and like they can use it as they would like to.
00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:06.480
I'm very curious and excited to see how that's gonna be taken and how we might have to switch the idea or turn it around or refine it.
00:48:06.639 --> 00:48:15.360
I you know, launching something is always very exciting, and launching multiple things at the same time I think is uh exponentially more exciting.
00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:17.039
So for me, that's definitely it.
00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:18.159
What is it for you?
00:48:18.719 --> 00:49:18.480
Uh I can't tell if it's uh even going to happen because it's still we are still strategizing about this, uh, but I'm getting very excited about the idea of pivoting from in some ways from Web3 to Web 2, and that's just a ridiculous, ridiculous and provocative uh uh uh sentence, but still essentially I see a lot of things uh that we have in Web3 and would be very useful for a lot of non-tokenized, non-NFT using communities, and that way I'm very excited to hook these communities and then later on incentivize them to start their tokens, start their NFTs, and essentially uh onboard them to Web3 back because guild is obviously always going to stay a Web Free product, so not just uh like at this stage, but it's going to go much, much further.
00:49:18.639 --> 00:49:22.800
We have big plans about how how we can uh decentralize it.
00:49:23.199 --> 00:49:29.280
I mean, this the the uh the the technology from a technological perspective as well, not just socially.
00:49:29.599 --> 00:49:47.599
Uh, but the most exciting thing for me is is how can we uh use it as a bridge for gaming communities, fashion communities, music communities, and all sorts of uh huge communities in on the internet uh to onboard them and uh sorry.
00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:50.559
This could also be a drinking game, this episode of the podcast.
00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:52.880
Drink every time we say community.
00:49:57.039 --> 00:49:59.519
I'd be like keeping track of it, it's a lot.
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:09.920
But um yeah, what when it comes to uh bringing these web 2 communities on board and with some of the aspects that you have in web 3, you mentioned kind of gaming, music.
00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:13.360
Uh are there certain kind of like use cases that guilds is looking at?
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:20.559
You don't have to list them all because I know that could be a little bit inside, but like maybe one or two um from that like hooking and bringing them into web 3.
00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:25.360
Okay, I will say only one specific thing because I don't want to uncover too much.
00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:28.880
Really, it's it's just very important for us now strategically.
00:50:28.960 --> 00:51:12.559
And it's also it's not uh 100% that it's going to happen, but one example uh we can uh uh hook in, uh I mean integrate Steam in a way, Steam, the game platform, that uh we can verify if a user owns uh a game and active in a game and have certain achievements in a game, or if it's even a privately hosted game, we can verify much, much more and essentially prove those those uh things about uh a certain user uh all around uh the internet, basically the platforms that we integrate in, starting with Discord.
00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:36.320
So essentially, communities without even bullet addresses can use will be able to use guild uh to verify a lot of things about their members in the community and then build uh and yeah, build their communities in social media as well, but it's also useful for combating spam, combating scammers, and a lot of other things.
00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:53.920
So it's it's really like a new membership model that's coming from Web3 and uh using it for gaming communities, for example, and and if you combine that with uh uh YouTube, for example, that we can check if you follow a YouTuber or pay for a follower.
00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:58.480
And yeah, maybe that's a second, but that's okay.
00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:06.639
Anyway, yeah, the possibilities are really endless with with membership management.
00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:11.840
We'll leave the breadcrumbs for the rest of the community to uh and the listeners to figure out.
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:14.400
But as you mentioned, the possibilities are pretty endless.
00:52:14.480 --> 00:52:20.639
What you can do when you're thinking about this credential system that can go over uh from web three and back into web two.
00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:24.800
Um, without you spilling anything else, I'll keep uh be mindful of that.
00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:27.679
I just wanted to kind of wrap up with a question.
00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:32.800
So, like on a scale of like one to ten uh on adoption, like where are we uh with web three right now?
00:52:33.039 --> 00:52:35.679
I I hate these numbers, numbers questions.
00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:40.000
I like to joke joke three about this all the time.
00:52:41.119 --> 00:52:42.000
Well, guess what?
00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:44.719
There's a follow-up question, and I can't wait till you say a number.
00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:50.320
So I think you know, subjectively, my opinion, I think it's like three, four.
00:52:54.559 --> 00:53:03.119
Would you personally think that uh Web3 is uh is is almost like just uh buzzword invented by venture capitalists?
00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:10.639
So if we are talking about the buzzword and the adoption, if if it it's it's already out of ten, so probably 11.
00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:14.719
Because we already the whole word adopted it already.
00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:25.119
Uh but if we are thinking about uh like the ownership economy and and uh uh everything related to blockchain, we are still pretty early and uh maybe free.
00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:36.239
Yeah, when it comes to like adopting the uh cryptographic principles, the ownership, and actually like having that kind of community-driven value versus kind of the web to data siphoning value.
00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:39.280
I would agree we're kind of on that like three to four level.
00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:43.360
Um, but like how do we end up kind of even just notching that up like to a five?
00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:45.280
And what does even a 10 look like?
00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:53.599
Uh is it something similar to what you described with like your YouTube, your Steam, where like all these web 2 companies already have these credentials so you can pull them back and forth?
00:53:55.280 --> 00:54:02.159
Uh 10 is probably when ownership is fully pegged to your consciousness.
00:54:02.960 --> 00:54:15.840
So essentially then your seed phrase or whatever the con your connection with the ownership is, it only exists in your head, or or basically wherever your consciousness is.
00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:18.079
And I think that's that's adoption 10.
00:54:18.320 --> 00:54:37.679
Okay, what I would say from a more I think grounded answer is that when your parents are using the type of technology that we are as like pioneers are using today, I think that's when I'm like 10, or when they're like benefiting from it without being active users.
00:54:38.159 --> 00:54:40.639
That's five or six in one of them.
00:54:43.760 --> 00:54:49.599
Yeah, if if 10 is uh consciousness, that is fantastic.
00:54:49.840 --> 00:54:51.840
I was not expecting that.
00:54:52.159 --> 00:55:02.400
I feel like we can have like a whole like several hours essentially, just going deep into like from age six to now of how you're thinking about computers, networks, and all that.
00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:09.760
But it in the essence of time, I do want to uh uh be conscious of all that and just leave you guys with any parting words.
00:55:09.840 --> 00:55:19.519
Um, here's your opportunity, like you've done over the past hour shilling Agora, shilling um guilds, and really understanding like what it means from like the community aspect, how to integrate certain tools.
00:55:19.760 --> 00:55:23.119
So, is there anything else that you'd like to leave the listeners with?
00:55:23.519 --> 00:55:26.239
Um well, use us and give us feedback.
00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:28.320
That's like our most valuable thing at the moment.
00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:29.440
Yeah, just three chart.
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:43.920
Yeah, and also the the tool, the tool, the API and the SVK is coming out as soon as can as we can, and that's gonna speed up integrations from our community side and from our side as well.
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:48.960
That's gonna allow for uh decentralized development, which we're very excited about.
00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:54.880
We just added a new authentication system so we cannot, you know, so it's secure and everything.
00:55:55.360 --> 00:56:00.000
Nobody can come and mess up the whole system just because they put in a new integration.
00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:05.199
So, yeah, uh, for the developers that's more exciting for the founders.
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:06.559
Yeah, reach out to us.
00:56:06.639 --> 00:56:13.760
We are very open people, and uh yeah, we are going after uh meritocratic values.
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:19.760
So if you can provide value, we will make everything to help you in any ways.
00:56:21.039 --> 00:56:23.039
You're so bold with the statement.
00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:25.199
Fantastic way to end this.
00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:28.480
And uh thank you again, Rob and Recca for coming on Ovagora.
00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:33.119
Everyone, check out guild, and if you need to reach out, reach out to either ourselves, them.
00:56:33.280 --> 00:56:38.159
As Robert mentioned, very approachable, um, always in the TMs and fantastic.
00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:40.639
Uh, but yeah, thank you, thank you everyone for joining.
00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:41.840
Um next time.
00:56:42.239 --> 00:56:42.800
Hey everyone.
00:56:42.880 --> 00:56:44.880
Thanks for listening to the Delphi Podcast.
00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:51.920
If you enjoyed it, please support the show by hitting subscribe on your podcast app, writing a review, or sharing this episode on Twitter or LinkedIn.
00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:53.519
Stay tuned for our next episode.
00:56:53.679 --> 00:56:54.719
Out soon.
