WEBVTT
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00:00:10.160Welcome to the Delegates Lounge.
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00:00:11.599Pull up a chair.
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00:00:22.559I'm Alex Turquinio, a journalist based at the United Nations here in New York City, and your MC for this podcast, featuring some of the most influential minds in the world today.
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00:00:28.160Settle in for some riveting tete tete, available wherever you listen to podcasts.
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00:00:38.719Welcome back to the Delegates Lounge Podcast.
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00:00:43.920We are continuing our comprehensive coverage of the United Nations High Level Week.
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00:00:56.399You can find our videos on our brand new YouTube channel or we will continue to publish our audio podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast.
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00:01:02.159In this episode, we're honored to bring you on conversation with Romania's foreign minister.
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00:01:10.879The inclusion of Russian into our country's interest.
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00:01:19.840We also just can't Romanian support for Ukraine.
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00:01:50.000We just got to see ongoing challenges at the United Nations.
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00:01:56.079We just got challenges in the physical crisis where there are ongoing discussions about the organization's future.
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00:01:59.280Here's our conversation.
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00:02:08.319This week of all weeks, high-level week here at the UN.
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00:02:10.319We are really honored to have you.
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00:02:14.319Thank you so much for having the opportunity to talk to you today.
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00:02:23.439Well, let's jump right in to Russia's aerospace violations in your country and others, namely Poland and Estonia.
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00:02:26.800And we had um a meeting about this today.
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00:02:35.199Um you've described the recent incursions of Russian drones into Romanian airspace, a NATO country, as reckless.
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00:02:37.919It is a serious escalation.
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00:02:45.439Many people are wondering, first of all, why Romania did not shoot down the drone that was over your territory for some 50 minutes.
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00:02:48.719Um can you begin by explaining your thinking behind that decision?
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00:02:49.439Sure.
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00:02:56.240We have seen the drone approaching our airspace even before because the radars have caught it in the Ukrainian uh conflict.
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00:03:03.199So we had the flight already in the air, the airplanes were already there, two F-60s that have monitored the drone.
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00:03:08.719Our decision was to take it down uh in terms of a military hierarchical decision.
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00:03:14.000The Ministry of Ufense, Yonutzmochtanu, has given the green light for that.
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00:03:17.039So the pilots had those instructions.
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00:03:27.759Our operating approach to it is that it is finally the decision of the pilot in the sense that they are the ones that can best assess the situation on the ground.
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00:03:38.639And one indicator that they have through the law is that they need to assess the imminent risk of life versus the collateral potential risk of shooting it down.
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00:03:43.039And the drone didn't go over inhabited territories.
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00:03:52.400The intention was even so to take it down because it is a risk to Ukrainian um territory as well, once it goes back into the Ukrainian air.
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00:04:16.560But every time they had it inside, the evaluation of potential collateral risks of shooting it down and having uh that on the ground versus trying to find a better uh angle led to the decision that you saw finally that the drone has left our airspace by the time the pilots were able through that analysis of risks to shoot it down.
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00:04:19.680So it was merely a timing issue with the risk analysis.
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00:04:21.439The decision had been made to shoot it down.
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00:04:24.720You were not deliberately escorting it out of your airspace.
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00:04:27.680The decision was clear to shoot it down for a while.
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00:04:34.000We didn't have the proper legislation to make sure we shoot down drones, but we have fixed that in the parliament.
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00:04:35.600Um so now we have all these.
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00:04:37.199That's actually my next question.
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00:04:38.959So you've anticipated me.
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00:04:44.560So there's nothing legally in Romanian law that would prevent you from shooting down a drone.
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00:04:56.240At the beginning of the aggression of uh Ukraine, when we saw different types of provocations to our airspace as well, we didn't have fully the proper legislative framework.
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00:05:09.439Um, very small detail that matter, for example, was that in our law we had previous steps like trying to reach the pilot, uh trying to have an answer or a lack of answer before you take the decisions.
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00:05:11.759And obviously, these do not apply to drones.
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00:05:14.480Well, that was actually a very interesting point.
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00:05:20.160Does the new legislation apply only to drones, or would it also apply to a piloted aircraft?
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00:05:22.959I mean, obviously that is a bigger decision to shoot that down.
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00:05:26.959If a piloted aircraft entered your space, would you be able to legally shoot that down?
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00:05:35.680So for piloted aircraft, because it was something that was already used in previous conflicts, there was and there is uh legislation in place.
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00:05:40.160It's just that we've adapted it to be able to apply it to drones as well.
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00:05:42.079So the legal framework is there.
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00:05:46.959The decision of the Minister of Defense was very clear in that direction.
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00:06:01.600Uh but the pilots, we think, took the right decision in the sense that they have their final responsibility to take these decisions, not based on optics, but based on the interests that they need to protect, to defend our citizens.
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00:06:07.920But also, when possible, the decision is also clear not to allow for those threats to go back into the Ukrainian space.
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00:06:09.439We're very clear on that as well.
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00:06:45.680We have been supporters of Ukraine even from the beginning, in terms of military support, humanitarian support, and also diplomatically and politically, our stance is very clear that the conflict needs to end, that Ukraine is not the country that has started the conflict, and that the path towards peace, towards getting Putin really at the negotiation table, is a path where the Ukrainian army has the necessary support, where the families have the necessary humanitarian support or safe refuge, as was the case for um what Romania has provided since the beginning of the war.
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00:06:54.000But to be clear, if a manned aircraft entered your aerospace, would your pilots need to make an attempt to contact it first before shooting it down?
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00:06:57.199Is that the difference between that law and the drone law?
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00:07:07.360The drone law practically creates the frame to be able to shoot it down because we needed clarification as the previous laws were made when there were no drones.
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00:07:09.519But if there was a pilot, they would still try to.
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00:07:11.519I wouldn't go into the military details.
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00:07:13.199I would refer you to Yonutskas.
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00:07:14.879That makes sense.
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00:07:19.199In in this type of military decision, chain of command types of situations.
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00:07:23.279What I can say though is that we have a clear approach to all of them.
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00:07:27.680And we have a clear situation by situation decision-making process.
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00:07:29.120That makes sense.
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00:07:36.480And another question some people have had is why you did not invoke Article IV, which some other countries have done.
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00:07:42.959And I believe Romania did this at the start of the full-scale invasion in February 2022.
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00:07:47.920Why, what your thought, your thinking was behind not invoking Article.
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00:07:59.519So the main goal of Article IV is to have a consultation between countries, members of NATO, to share the information that you have and to search together for solutions.
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00:08:09.279And that has already happened when Article IV was invoked by Poland just the days before the Russian drone has entered the airspace.
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00:08:14.879In the format of that discussion, we did not just discuss about Poland's defense or Poland's security.
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00:08:18.240We had a full discussion about the Eastern Flank.
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00:08:20.720How is it that each country perceives it?
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00:08:23.279What is it that we can do better within NATO?
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00:08:38.799The decision of that meeting was communicated by Marrute very clearly in reinforcing the Eastern Flank air defense with air capabilities and also ground capabilities that support the air defense.
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00:08:43.440And that conversation, those decisions included already the Eastern Flank.
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00:09:01.600So we didn't consider it necessary to do another consultation on Article 4 on our case simply because what we felt as security threats, what we needed, how do we see together with the rest of the countries the way forward in protecting the Eastern Flank were addressed already just days before.
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00:09:03.120I see.
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00:09:15.039And at the time, well, you said to me in my reporting for my article, but also on um social media that you intended to have conversations and essentially more consultations here in New York at the UN.
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00:09:22.080Um officially the opening is in the morning, but have you have those consultations with your counterparts already begun?
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00:09:24.240The consultations have already begun.
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00:09:33.039We have officially uh firmly addressed the Russian aggression already today in the Security Council where we had our intervention.
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00:09:51.440Uh also what was very important for us, and very important, I would say, for the region, is that today, in the interventions that other countries have had in the Security Council, they were very clear on uh the risk they saw for all of us.
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00:09:55.039They've mentioned Estonia, Poland, uh, Romania together.
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00:10:00.559Um, and that is important because we need to have a firm uh diplomatic response together.
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00:10:21.440That also is a deterrence factor, and our aim together uh today as well was to make sure we have a clear voice in that direction, that Russia understands that this is not something that we take lightly, that none of us is alone in this, but rather that we all perceive the security of one as having implications to the security of all.
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00:10:28.480Well, in fact, um the Security Council obviously has its hands tied because Russia is a P5 member, so it has a veto.
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00:10:39.679But is this where the Security Council does come into its own, the fact that you can all go there and speak directly to Russia, even if you're not speaking with them diplomatically in other forums?
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00:10:42.559You're correct in what you're saying.
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00:10:54.960But I think the challenges that we we face, the type of risks that are happening throughout the world, specifically that we're talking about now in Ukraine, need more than conversations.
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00:10:59.519So I think we need to find a way that the Security Council can take decisions.
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00:11:11.679I don't think it's really fair or something that can be fully respected if you have a member of the Security Council using the vote, the veto it has when it is also the aggressor.
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00:11:21.600And in that sense, Romania has participated and will continue to do so in working groups and different formats that are aiming to reform the United Nations.
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00:11:26.559For us, it's extremely important that we keep uh the multilateralism.
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00:11:28.799We think it needs to be actually stronger.
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00:11:31.679We think it is a time when it is needed even more.
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00:11:34.240Uh, but that doesn't mean it's perfect.
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00:11:40.799Uh, and we're among the countries that consider that the way forward requires some changes that we're working towards.
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00:11:44.799By reform, are you also including veto reform on the Security Council?
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00:11:53.360The position of Romania is that we need to consider uh ways in which situations like the one we have now are not gonna happen in the future.
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00:11:57.679Where uh a P5 member is the actual aggressor in a country.
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00:11:58.879Yes, okay.
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00:12:12.639Um well, NATO, getting back, returning back from the U into NATO, um, has begun uh Operation Eastern Century and Baltic Century uh trying to be a counterweight to these Russian incursions.
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00:12:21.039Um what more do you think NATO should be doing to counter Russia's repeated violations?
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00:12:30.799So I think NATO's um reaction is accurate, is proportional, it is what needs to get done.
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00:12:39.120I also think it is very important that we had the NATO Hague summit where all of us have decided to step up our budgets to 5%.
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00:12:48.000Uh that is essential because now we already have the political commitment for the necessary budgets for the initiatives you're talking about.
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00:12:51.840But also in the same time, it is not just a matter of money.
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00:13:02.480Uh, we need to make sure we invest together in the proper innovations, the proper dual use um products, proper dual use uh procurement.
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00:13:09.279Um, because it is also that we're facing new types of threats, new types of instruments from the Russian side.
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00:13:16.000So on NATO side, we need to make sure we continue our conversations on AI, on cyber threats, on hybrid war.
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00:13:26.799Um, we need to innovate and work more in the defense industry towards creating more agile um, yeah, for example, drones.
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00:13:41.919And this is something that in Romania we have discussed now to go forward with common projects with Ukraine because we consider they are the ones that have learned the most in awful conditions that no one can replicate or should replicate.
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00:13:46.000Um, so we have this path going forward.
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00:13:54.799We have the decision to create together with the Ukrainians in Romania production capacities for um for defensive drones.
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00:14:04.399So those are Romanian uh companies or the defense sector working with the Ukrainian defense sector in terms of manufacturing.
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00:14:06.080Is that inside of Ukraine?
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00:14:10.639The current uh decision is an agreement between the ministries of defense.
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00:14:17.759We have a memorandum together between our governments as well in that direction, and we will announce it gradually as it evolves.
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00:14:26.000And you mentioned AI, obviously, both AI and drones are very important now in the evolution of warfare we're seeing in Ukraine.
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00:14:29.360Um, also, evidently, NATO is a defensive alliance.
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00:14:38.799We're sitting here across the street from the United Nations, which is focused on peace and security, um, but is not a military alliance, obviously.
00:14:39.039 -->
00:14:44.799Um, but they're also concerned about artificial intelligence and digital regulation.
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00:14:55.360Is there some way that NATO and the UN can, I guess, learn from the work that each side is doing on AI, for example?
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00:14:56.240Definitely.
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00:14:58.639And we also need to share the lessons that we have.
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00:15:00.080How do we see the risks?
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00:15:04.960Also, the risk analysis is something that we need to share more, even in these formats.
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00:15:13.039Romania is in a specific place in the sense that we have good specialists in terms of tech, AI, cybersecurity.
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00:15:23.679We are actually providers of cybersecurity for many parts of the world with our private companies, but also sharing of some of the know-how that we have developed.
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00:15:30.320We have been ourselves the target of cyber attacks and hybrid aggressions from Russia.
00:15:30.399 -->
00:15:36.000Um, this is formally recognized as well in a common European Union statement, in a NATO statement.
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00:15:42.480Uh, and that challenge has put us in the position to have to learn fast to develop our response.
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00:15:45.279The work is not done, nor is it perfect.
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00:15:53.840But we are very aware of the risk and of the fact that institutions need to adapt to it and we need new new instruments to counter it.
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00:15:58.320In terms of the gray space areas, in terms around elections and social media.
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00:16:17.679Um also regarding Ukraine, Romania has um, I wanted to get some clarification on your position in terms of we're skipping ahead now, sending perhaps peacekeeping troops or troops on the ground at the end of the conflict, um, if such a mission were established.
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00:16:20.240Obviously, this is still theoretical at this point.
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00:16:23.759Um, Romania sort of staked out a position.
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00:16:32.879Can you explain whether you have decided that you would send peacekeeping troops after the conflict and what factors would guide your decision making?
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00:16:46.960So if you allow me for a bit of context for who is hearing the podcast um here in the US, especially, Romania is the country that has the longest border with Ukraine between uh Ukraine's friendly neighbors.
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00:16:50.159That's a very nice distinction.
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00:16:57.840Um and even if we include the Republic of Moldova, then together with the Republic of Moldova, even more so.
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00:17:05.599Uh, our priority is to help with these capabilities that we have in in terms of helping with military aid.
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00:17:08.960So that's something that we've been doing since the beginning of the conflict.
00:17:09.119 -->
00:17:25.440Um, we've also donated the Patriot air defense system uh to Ukraine, together with a lot of international partners, because then the financial effort uh to compensate for Romania's defense capacity was a common international one.
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00:17:33.440We already helped in terms of humanitarian aid, in terms of protecting the logistical uh routes.
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00:17:43.519Uh the Black Sea and the Constant support have been absolutely essential in allowing the serials to um be exported from uh from Ukraine.
00:17:43.680 -->
00:17:53.759In terms of troops on the ground, we have a clear decision currently uh that we are not sending uh troops in Ukraine, but that is a current decision.
00:17:53.839 -->
00:18:04.720It depends on how the peace negotiations evolve, on what's gonna be our common effort within the European Union, maybe OSHA mission together.
00:18:04.960 -->
00:18:12.400Um we're not excluding formats of conversation or of analyzing potential common solutions in the future.
00:18:12.559 -->
00:18:23.119But currently we have uh a common decision within our Security Council, our National Security Council, that that decision currently is clear of not sending troops on the ground.
00:18:23.519 -->
00:18:29.279Would it make a difference if it was a UN-sanctioned peacekeeping force versus a NATO effort?
00:18:29.680 -->
00:18:34.799I think there are many conversations now taking place and many scenarios that are being developed.
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00:18:42.720And I think it's the right thing to do to have now conversations about that moment in time so we can have a fast deployment when it is needed.
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00:18:45.759But those are ongoing conversations.
00:18:46.880 -->
00:18:57.839Um There's uh well I did also want to ask you, by the way, about the funds, because this has been another big discussion within Europe.
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00:19:05.440Most of the the frozen assets, the Russian frozen assets are actually in Europe a relatively small matter in the United States.
00:19:05.599 -->
00:19:08.240Um, what is Romania's position on this?
00:19:08.400 -->
00:19:11.519Because there are two schools of thought within Europe.
00:19:11.680 -->
00:19:21.839Some say, well, we have to respect international law, and in the future, other countries won't place their funds here, and others say that these are frozen Russian assets and Ukraine needs them now.
00:19:22.240 -->
00:19:38.720So I think uh in terms of the decision in the European Union, Romania included, we are past the conversation of whether the Russian assets on our territory should or should not be an element in how we generate pressure towards Russia to stop this aggression.
00:19:38.880 -->
00:19:46.799So I think we it's quite clear now among us that there is an element around frozen assets, an instrument that we can use to increase the pressure.
00:19:47.039 -->
00:19:57.200And we already transfer some of the funds from the interest rates, the return on investment uh benefits, are already transferred to Ukraine.
00:19:57.440 -->
00:20:02.640Uh not the assets themselves, but the return on investment that is generated by some of the assets.
00:20:02.960 -->
00:20:16.720So each, this is an obvious I didn't really consider this, but each country that holds frozen Russian assets is responsible for turning over, or not responsible, but is the party that turns over the interest from those assets to Ukraine.
00:20:17.119 -->
00:20:22.559This is a more complicated financial discussion because some of the assets are already in some investment funds.
00:20:22.720 -->
00:20:26.000It's a more complex conversation in terms of financial instruments.
00:20:26.160 -->
00:20:40.319But the next step of that conversation, which is more complicated legally, is the assets themselves and what can happen with them, how can they be used, if they can uh be used, then this is again an ongoing conversation.
00:20:41.039 -->
00:20:46.400You mentioned um NATO's decision to go to 5% of military spending.
00:20:46.640 -->
00:20:52.160Of course, budgets, including federal budgets, are always about prioritization.
00:20:53.200 -->
00:20:57.359That's something that's going to be discussed much the next week at the United Nations.
00:20:57.599 -->
00:21:04.079The balance between the need to re-arm in Europe and also contributions to foreign aid.
00:21:04.960 -->
00:21:10.079We already know that there is some impact being felt with reduced voluntary contributions.
00:21:10.640 -->
00:21:20.559Um how do you balance the protection of your own citizens and your need to spend more on defense with the commitments to foreign international aid?
00:21:20.880 -->
00:21:25.680Yeah, that that is the right question to ask and an amazing question to ask.
00:21:25.759 -->
00:21:32.799Um and it's always hard to balance budgets because it's simply you reallocate resources in a sense on the short run.
00:21:32.960 -->
00:21:45.759Uh on the long run, what I think is very important is that we need to understand that if the aim is security and we agree on that, we need to look more carefully at the instruments that we deploy.
00:21:46.079 -->
00:21:50.480If the aim is security, the the instrument is not just military procurement.
00:21:51.440 -->
00:21:55.359We need to continue investing in education because that creates resilience.
00:21:55.839 -->
00:22:30.400And if we admit that uh Russia is using an array of instruments, including these hybrid approaches to create or amplify vulnerabilities within our democracies, um then it's even more obvious that we need to keep investing in education, we need to keep investing in protecting free media, all of the things that create and support resilient societies, uh because that in itself also serves, at the end of the day, a security objective.
00:22:31.279 -->
00:22:31.759That makes sense.
00:22:31.920 -->
00:22:42.079So the education spending, it's it's in a sense a type of defense spending in that it is resilience to the hybrid warfare of information warfare.
00:22:42.799 -->
00:22:48.799You need a critical mind, you need the analysis uh capacity of an anal, yeah, analysis capacity.
00:22:48.880 -->
00:23:11.599You need to have places and spaces that have actual conversations and not keep uh citizens almost trapped in this online space where the algorithms sometimes do not prioritize actual dialogue, but rather an entire spiral of at the end of the day, sometimes even uh hate speech or uh fake news.
00:23:12.079 -->
00:23:16.480And that's a very interesting point about prioritizing education.
00:23:16.640 -->
00:23:25.839Um, but in terms of foreign aid, um, and I'm actually not only talking about Romania here, here I am shifting more to the United Nations.
00:23:26.319 -->
00:23:29.119Do you see that being a concern going forward?
00:23:29.440 -->
00:23:41.839That in aggregate there will be fewer voluntary contributions to, for example, the main relief agency, Ocean, and the other voluntary, the World Food Program and the like.
00:23:42.160 -->
00:23:49.279It is a valid concern, also because a lot of these organizations have a significant dependency on US contribution, for example.
00:23:49.519 -->
00:24:05.680Uh, some things that we're uh realizing even more now within the European Union is uh that our contribution is essential, this we knew, but if we look at it collectively, we realize we are the top contributors in many of these organizations.
00:24:05.759 -->
00:24:12.480If we look together at what the member states provide, uh, additional to what is provided through common instruments.
00:24:12.720 -->
00:24:22.400So the European Union itself needs to understand better our role in this and the influence and the power that we have to adapt to these uh changes.
00:24:22.559 -->
00:24:23.279That's one.
00:24:23.519 -->
00:24:36.160And secondly, if I am to go back to our national perspective and the way we compensate for shrinking budgets in this direction, is the same type of complex approach of our instruments.
00:24:36.319 -->
00:24:53.839I was speaking with the deans of our universities in Romania, uh, with some of these deans to figure out how we can increase uh the international programs in terms of masters, in terms of university, uh, because that creates um advantages for all of us.
00:24:54.000 -->
00:24:57.759It's a development instrument and it helps our relationship with many countries.
00:24:58.000 -->
00:25:07.519In the same time, our students in Romania have a more international space in their university years, and that enhances their experience as well.
00:25:08.319 -->
00:25:09.920Yeah, that's that's very important.
00:25:10.160 -->
00:25:25.519Um okay, turning to Palestine, because there are, well, there are a few key themes running through this week, and obviously the Russian incursions a few weeks ago, nobody expected that to be the key theme, but it is one of them.
00:25:25.759 -->
00:25:40.960The Palestine conference, however, has been um we've been working towards that for many months here at the United Nations, and many countries that had not previously recognized Palestine are doing so here this week.
00:25:41.359 -->
00:25:45.440Romania, on the other hand, was one of the first countries to recognize Palestine.
00:25:45.599 -->
00:25:51.119So, how do you view the growing international consensus on Palestinian statehood?
00:25:51.680 -->
00:25:54.960I have to start with what is very important to say.
00:25:55.279 -->
00:25:58.559Because it is not always said every time we talk about this.
00:25:58.640 -->
00:26:02.720So we need to say the priority remains that all the hostages are released.
00:26:02.960 -->
00:26:10.720Everyone needs to be very, very clear on the idea that Hamas has no future in the future of Palestine and it needs to disarm.
00:26:11.119 -->
00:26:34.559Um, this being said, it is also clear that we have a humanitarian crisis happening in Gaza and that we need to also take the political decisions that we need to take to again make sure there is the proper incentive for everyone to sit at the table to find the common solutions for an enduring peace and to have an immediate uh ceasefire to be able to do that.
00:26:34.720 -->
00:26:42.559Uh, and Romania is in the position to have a balanced approach to this because we have a history that is rare, among other countries.
00:26:42.720 -->
00:26:52.319We are one of the few countries in the world that have had uninterrupted diplomatic relationships for decades with both Israel and Palestine.
00:26:52.559 -->
00:27:04.319So we're trying to use this balanced position to also be very clear on the crisis that we see in Gaza and on the fact that Israel has a responsibility in uh fixing it.
00:27:04.559 -->
00:27:14.400Uh, but also on the fact that there needs to be absolute clarity on the priority of release of hostages, absolute clarity on the idea that Hamas has no future there.
00:27:14.559 -->
00:27:19.440And in that context, yes, the solution that we see forward is the two-state solution.
00:27:20.720 -->
00:27:26.079Now it's very interesting that you mentioned the hostages first thing.
00:27:26.240 -->
00:27:30.559Um, not everyone has when they're when they've been talking about this recognition.
00:27:30.799 -->
00:27:38.079And here I'm talking also more broadly speaking, because Romania has for decades recognized both Israel and Palestine.
00:27:38.480 -->
00:27:46.960Um the real significance though this week is that so many, many countries are recognizing it for the first time.
00:27:47.279 -->
00:27:52.720France, the UK, Australia, uh, Canada, Portugal.
00:27:53.359 -->
00:28:08.640What do you say, particularly to the hostage families, where they feel that this first-time recognition of Palestine gives a gift to Hamas and is not helping them to get their hostages and their family members released?
00:28:11.119 -->
00:28:13.119I can't speak on behalf of other countries.
00:28:13.440 -->
00:28:39.200But but something that is clearly happening throughout Europe is that it is impossible for the citizens that we have to ignore uh the tragedy in Gaza, to ignore children that are searching for food because their parents have been killed, to ignore the loss of civilian life, to ignore uh the lack of proper access to healthcare, sometimes food, sometimes energy.
00:28:39.519 -->
00:28:54.160So a lot of these actual citizens, not necessarily just the politicians or the decision-making bodies, are reacting to this situation, demanding that there is an action to be taken to try to save human life, essentially.
00:28:54.400 -->
00:29:02.160Um, so what I would say, not to the families of hostages, because I don't think I have the right to say something to the families of hostages.
00:29:02.240 -->
00:29:07.839For them, I think it is absolutely clear with no nuance that the priority is to have their family back.
00:29:08.000 -->
00:29:12.240And also that everything is done so that is not repeated again for other families.
00:29:12.400 -->
00:29:15.920So I have no standing in telling them anything.
00:29:16.079 -->
00:29:23.519Um, because it is quite clear that they're right in what they they demand, they're right in what they see in seeing the risk and so on.
00:29:23.680 -->
00:29:36.160Uh but I think us as political leaders, irrespective of the country we're from, we need to understand that the international rules are there for purpose.
00:29:36.319 -->
00:29:43.119That it is unacceptable that children are dying when they're not at fault at all with anything that is happening.
00:29:43.359 -->
00:29:59.839So maybe this strong political reaction of recognizing Palestine wouldn't have been needed if we would have had from Israel a reaction faster in allowing maybe more of the humanitarian aid or getting faster maybe to.
00:30:00.240 -->
00:30:02.400To potential solutions that they see.
00:30:02.559 -->
00:30:16.720But again, I cannot speak on behalf of other countries, nor can do I speak on behalf of what Israel should do other than what we think, as many of us within the European Union, not just that, that might help in the proper um direction.
00:30:16.880 -->
00:30:18.480We're helping with what we can help.
00:30:18.640 -->
00:30:24.480Romania is providing humanitarian flights for children undergoing cancer treatment.
00:30:25.279 -->
00:30:30.079We have just had two weeks ago another one in that direction.
00:30:30.240 -->
00:30:33.519We're continuing our conversations with Israel.
00:30:33.839 -->
00:30:45.519We're continuing our conversations with the ambassador of Palestine in Romania, trying to do our little part in what can take us towards peace and saving human lives.
00:30:45.920 -->
00:30:58.559Of course, I wouldn't expect you to speak for other countries, and I do understand that many of the people involved in this conference believe it it could help lead to some conclusion in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
00:30:58.960 -->
00:31:21.920And the conference, sorry, just want to mention this as well, because one of the reasons why we signed the statement is that beyond recognizing Palestine, which for us is a long-term, long-time decision, it has very clear statements against Hamas, also from the states that don't typically have had that type of firm stance.
00:31:22.319 -->
00:31:26.000And we've considered that that as well needs to be endorsed.
00:31:26.480 -->
00:31:28.319Well, that is part of the New York Declaration.
00:31:28.480 -->
00:31:36.559And um one question though about that disarmament is how do you how do you see this playing out?
00:31:36.799 -->
00:31:43.759Do you believe that Hamas would voluntarily give up arms, something like you know, the Good Friday Agreement?
00:31:44.079 -->
00:31:49.759Or um how do you think that that disarmament could be accomplished?
00:31:50.160 -->
00:31:51.279No, I uh okay.
00:31:51.440 -->
00:31:56.799On our side, we haven't seen any signs towards um an authentic step towards peace.
00:31:56.880 -->
00:32:02.160And that's why it cannot be left just to the two countries in conflict.
00:32:02.319 -->
00:32:14.160Because I don't think anyone now has the hope or the expectations that by themselves they would reach uh a peace agreement or a disarmament uh deal or even a ceasefire uh now.
00:32:14.319 -->
00:32:18.240So I think it's quite clear that the international community needs to be involved.
00:32:18.319 -->
00:32:24.720And in that sense, there have been countries that have taken the leadership to mediate uh this and we support them in that direction.
00:32:25.839 -->
00:32:32.559Well, turning to the future of the UN itself, because that is actually probably the dominant thread this week.
00:32:32.799 -->
00:32:36.480As everyone knows, the high-level week is taking place under a dark cloud.
00:32:36.640 -->
00:32:55.519You may not see literal dark clouds out of our window, but but in terms of the fiscal crisis, uh the severe budget cuts, we're talking about almost a fifth of the staff here at the headquarters uh possibly being let go or transferred also to other workstations.
00:32:56.559 -->
00:33:05.839Um how does your government feel that the United Nations should adapt to this new era of, as they say, doing less with less?
00:33:06.880 -->
00:33:10.079So we are strong supporters of multilateralism.
00:33:10.240 -->
00:33:11.759Uh for us it's very important.
00:33:12.000 -->
00:33:17.200Romania has been uh a part of it for since the beginning.
00:33:19.359 -->
00:33:33.119And in the same time, we agree that not all resources have been spent properly, in the sense that we need better clarity on what are the types of resolutions, the types of decisions, the working formats.
00:33:33.759 -->
00:33:36.799Um we are working on different working groups.
00:33:36.880 -->
00:33:46.720We're also co-initiators of better ethical standards, clearer processes to elect the secretary general, for example, in the next phase.
00:33:47.119 -->
00:33:56.000For us specifically, when we look at the history of UN, it's also very hard to understand how in 80 years we never had the Secretary General from Eastern Europe.
00:33:57.440 -->
00:34:00.480Obviously, there are things that can be improved.
00:34:00.640 -->
00:34:06.960And but oh, that is a holdover, I assume, from the Cold War, but the Cold War has ended some time ago.
00:34:07.359 -->
00:34:16.559So I don't know if all of our listeners will be able to see your expression, but I think that was an agreement that the Cold War has ended some time ago.
00:34:16.880 -->
00:34:18.880Um very true.
00:34:19.360 -->
00:34:26.000Selecting a new Secretary General is a big uh step that will be taken within the next year.
00:34:26.079 -->
00:34:28.559Obviously, Guterres is towards the end of his term.
00:34:28.960 -->
00:34:33.280Do you think that there is time for an Eastern European Secretary General?
00:34:34.159 -->
00:34:39.679I think I haven't found someone that can explain why we haven't had one until now.
00:34:39.840 -->
00:34:47.679Uh in the sense that even now, as the attention is going to our region even more, I think it becomes clearer in not just in the United Nations.
00:34:47.840 -->
00:35:04.400We're having the same conversation in the European Union and other formats, uh, that the voice of Eastern Europe not only needs to be louder in terms of what we see in our region, what we experiment, um, but also it is needed more in the global conversation.
00:35:04.719 -->
00:35:08.800Well, the common wisdom has been that it would be someone from Latin America next.
00:35:08.960 -->
00:35:11.760It does circulate around, but that's more informal.
00:35:11.840 -->
00:35:19.599So you're putting in a vote for Eastern Europe, and that's I'm just looking at the history of the UN, asking a question.
00:35:19.679 -->
00:35:21.760And I think it's a valid question.
00:35:26.639 -->
00:35:28.480And that's it from the delegates lounge.
00:35:28.639 -->
00:35:34.239We'd like to thank our esteemed guests who've graciously allowed us to share their hard-earned insights into what really matters.
00:35:34.400 -->
00:35:39.440And then there's you, our listeners, who we hope are sufficiently edified to clamor for more of the same.
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00:36:13.679Our show this week was written and produced by the host and by yours truly executive producer Frank Radford.
00:36:13.840 -->
00:36:16.320Until next time, keep calm and curious.
